**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 08 02:59:57 2008 Dec 08 03:00:04 brocktice: i don't know, i just keep seeing people talk about APN, and i have no idea what you'd use those settings for Dec 08 03:00:20 they tell your phone how to get edge/3g data Dec 08 03:00:21 i needed it to put my G1 on AT&T.. Dec 08 03:00:24 maqr, Say you get a dev phone or unlock your phone and you want to use it on AT&T. You have to change the APNs. Dec 08 03:00:24 maqr: ever used a GSM phone before? Dec 08 03:00:25 Leeds: i don't know, i'm trying to understand why these APN settings are significant at all Dec 08 03:00:29 seems like I'm lucky in a way... the help page shows the shipping costs, and Singapore is among the cheapest Dec 08 03:00:34 If you want data access. Dec 08 03:00:41 maqr: they tell your phone how to get edge/3g data Dec 08 03:00:43 maqr: do you have to set something up on your PC or router to access the internet at home? Dec 08 03:00:44 Leeds: yeah, but never played with the settings before Dec 08 03:00:59 loke: what's the link to that page? I'm curious Dec 08 03:01:00 Leeds: sure, you set gateway info, which i guess is what the APN is? Dec 08 03:01:09 that's what the APN settings are, in a GSM context Dec 08 03:01:13 http://android.brightstarcorp.com/help.php Dec 08 03:01:15 maqr, Yeah it's basically gateway plus some other info. Dec 08 03:01:20 danke Dec 08 03:01:27 brocktice: so you need the tmo APN settings if you had an unlocked att phone and wanted to use tmo's edge network? Dec 08 03:01:34 APN is to cellphones as SSID/WEP/WPA key is to 802.11 wireless cards Dec 08 03:01:36 Japan is chepaer though Dec 08 03:01:37 maqr, right Dec 08 03:01:38 Leeds: shouldn't there be authetnication? Dec 08 03:01:46 Or if you flash a China Mobile firmware on your tmobile razr2. Dec 08 03:01:49 Leeds: i can't imagine if i just put in att's APN settings that it'd get me very far Dec 08 03:01:50 But I wouldn't know anything about that. Dec 08 03:01:59 canadians should just drive south and pick up their dev phones. sheesh. Dec 08 03:02:16 maqr: the authentication is done through the SIM card Dec 08 03:02:18 maqr: it'd work fine if a) you were on AT&T's GSM network at the time and b) you had an account... they already know who you are, or you wouldn't be able to use the cell network at all Dec 08 03:02:19 mmitchel, only if you're good at lying. Dec 08 03:02:32 or your mom lives in US. heh Dec 08 03:02:41 Leeds: i see... how does the concept of 'roaming' fit into this? (for US networks, being att and tmo) Dec 08 03:03:31 at&t and tmobile do not have roaming agreement in place -- that occurs at the second level usually, like those vendors that sell the pay per use phones at wallmart. Dec 08 03:04:23 mmitchel: erm, 'roaming' usually refers to international use, in GSM Dec 08 03:04:26 you want to avoid roaming when you are out of your network... like travel abroad. thats what will kill you. Dec 08 03:04:30 oh dear... the phone market is really messed up in the us :-) Dec 08 03:05:09 US had roaming issues back in TDMA cell days. you couldnt tell what network you were on till your bill arrived 30 days later. Dec 08 03:05:21 so can my tmo phone 'roam' onto the att network? Dec 08 03:05:31 maqr: no, it cannot Dec 08 03:05:36 maqr: no. you would change the SIM to use the other network. Dec 08 03:05:53 of course, you shouldn't need to, if you're on a so-called national network Dec 08 03:06:09 Is it not possible for C/C++ code to run on Android because Android's byte code language is based on Java? Dec 08 03:06:14 actually, that's not quite true... you should *always* be able to roam enough to make an emergency call Dec 08 03:06:29 if you can see a network at all, you should be able to call 112 on it Dec 08 03:06:34 anyone know who "Brandorr" is? Dec 08 03:06:39 it will pickup the tower of the default carrier that sold the phone ;) Dec 08 03:07:03 Sept: C/C++ code runs just fine on Android - but it's not supported in any way by Google Dec 08 03:07:24 Leeds: that explains a lot Dec 08 03:07:28 leeds thats not all true, tmo will roam onto att if its outside of a market area. Dec 08 03:07:52 it won't if its in their service area but has poor or no coverage. Dec 08 03:08:02 Versed: isn't the market area "The United States of America'? Dec 08 03:08:05 Leeds: Are you sure? Has anyone tested C/C++ code on it yet? Dec 08 03:08:21 Sept: lots of people have... do you know the neocore app? Dec 08 03:08:21 pretty much. they both cover the same market -- USA. Dec 08 03:08:27 doesn't mean either have the whole country towered. Dec 08 03:08:32 No, I do not. Dec 08 03:08:41 do you have a G1? Dec 08 03:08:54 both have roaming agreements with smaller carriers. Dec 08 03:09:06 Nope. :) Dec 08 03:09:10 thats rebranding. roaming implys the smaller carriers own the towers Dec 08 03:09:13 the US is so fscked when it comes to mobile networks :-D Dec 08 03:09:19 yeah, you got that right Dec 08 03:09:22 the fcc did it wrong Dec 08 03:09:29 leeds you're right on that. Dec 08 03:09:36 actually the cdma carriers are better on roaming. Dec 08 03:09:45 there are only 2 cdma carriers. Dec 08 03:09:50 * Disconnect ponders changing the animated android boot image to wave his arms instead of glowing Dec 08 03:09:54 two major carriers. Dec 08 03:10:07 two alone carriers. those others just rebrand and resell. Dec 08 03:10:15 Disconnect: make him turn around, bend over and moon you Dec 08 03:10:15 lol Dec 08 03:10:19 verizon/att/tmo? Dec 08 03:10:20 the fact that there *are* CDMA carriers is pretty fscked Dec 08 03:10:24 * Acidulous thinks Disconnect is on to something Dec 08 03:10:26 no verizion/sprint - cdma. Dec 08 03:10:26 and have it say "Kiss my rooted ass tmobile" Dec 08 03:10:28 no, US Cellular has its own cdma Dec 08 03:10:31 did anyone ever get a G1 from Microsoft's mobile developer promotion with T-Mobile? Dec 08 03:10:40 cricket is rebranded sprint Dec 08 03:10:47 clearwireless is rebranded sprint Dec 08 03:10:48 no, it has its own too. Dec 08 03:10:56 well cricket Dec 08 03:11:00 the towers are owned by sprint Dec 08 03:11:09 G1 from MS??? Dec 08 03:11:12 sprint owns no towers. Dec 08 03:11:16 they sold them off Dec 08 03:11:19 antennas then. Dec 08 03:11:24 has anyone actually used the hotspot access from tmobile? Dec 08 03:11:37 metro also has its own Dec 08 03:11:39 maqr: that depends....on the G1, or otherwise? Dec 08 03:11:44 Leeds: Go check xda, I posted instructions/links Dec 08 03:11:55 maqr: or more...with my G1 account info or a different one Dec 08 03:12:01 And no I bought mine from T-Mobile. Could have saved $40 usd :/ Dec 08 03:12:04 maqr: yea it's fine. Dec 08 03:12:24 Gary|tp: and one year contract. Dec 08 03:12:35 either on the g1 or otherwise, are you supposed to login somehow? i'm on the 'my tmobile' thing on their website, and i don't see any hotspot credentials Dec 08 03:12:37 Leeds, CDMA is a superior technology. Dec 08 03:12:38 Apparently T-Mobile won'thonor that. Dec 08 03:12:45 And I'm not surprised if they don't. Dec 08 03:12:45 brocktice: not in the marketplace Dec 08 03:12:53 Unfortunately it's all patented up by qualcomm. Dec 08 03:12:54 on paper but not in reality. Dec 08 03:13:02 GSM won in the market Dec 08 03:13:04 Gary|tp: which is why i'm asking if anyone got that deal to go through. Dec 08 03:13:16 Leeds, Microsoft won in the market too. Dec 08 03:13:38 I believe Korea is all CDMA as well yes? Dec 08 03:13:38 brocktice: they certainly did not Dec 08 03:13:39 Or mostly. Dec 08 03:13:57 south korea: yes. Dec 08 03:14:09 Leeds, depends on what market I guess. Dec 08 03:14:20 mmitchel, yeah, should have specified. Dec 08 03:14:33 china is whatever it gets its hands on, they have too many subscribers to not use all the technologies. Dec 08 03:14:37 North Korea they're probably still only using landlines thanks to Dear Leader. Dec 08 03:14:51 seems like there is UMTS in south korea Dec 08 03:15:07 unix_infidel: did you get login info for the hotspot? Dec 08 03:15:38 maqr: no i used someone elses. it's not exactly fast, but it works. Dec 08 03:15:59 maqr, It should be your phone number for username Dec 08 03:16:07 Last 4 of your social (dumb!) for the password. Dec 08 03:16:14 If you have access. Dec 08 03:16:33 brocktice: does it say somewhere in your account if you have access? (i'm obviously not at a hotspot right now) Dec 08 03:16:35 They never bothered to tell me that when i signed up for total internet. I had to call a very confused hotspot tech support. Dec 08 03:16:43 maqr, I don't think so. Dec 08 03:16:54 But now you know how to try if you get to a hotspot. Dec 08 03:16:59 your local starbucks might have one. Dec 08 03:17:04 Probably Dec 08 03:17:11 maqr: in the fine print when I got my G1, it told me it was included in each of the plans Dec 08 03:17:14 Amtrak stations usually do too. Dec 08 03:17:15 I have one in my office building.. lol Dec 08 03:17:32 And some airline. Airtran? Dec 08 03:17:37 By their gates. Dec 08 03:17:41 starbucks just started offering up AT&T wifi recently too Dec 08 03:17:50 and the local starbucks will have a tmobile or at&t powered hotspot, and until sometime in the not-to-distant-future you can use it at the at&t powered ones Dec 08 03:18:14 mmitchel: AT&T's taking over Starbucks and T-Mobile's getting the boot Dec 08 03:18:34 ismarc, yeah I was pretty bummed when that went down. Dec 08 03:18:39 mine has both. even though the window sticker for tmobile was peeled off Dec 08 03:18:52 But once I get my dev phone I'll be able to tether to 3G properly... Dec 08 03:18:56 mmitchel: it may be broadcasting both, but only one of them is providing service Dec 08 03:19:10 two crappy linksys routers? prolly. Dec 08 03:19:10 ismarc: i'll have to try it out, i guess... yours was included? Dec 08 03:19:11 did you order one brock? Dec 08 03:19:13 brocktice: the AT&T wifi stuff is run really great, and it's designed well, and is all around awesome Dec 08 03:19:20 Versed, yes. Dec 08 03:19:27 nice. Dec 08 03:19:35 I have a regular one, just unlocked. Dec 08 03:19:42 brocktice: well, when compared to the T-Mobile hotspots Dec 08 03:19:45 ismarc, Unfortunately I'm not a tmo customer. Dec 08 03:19:45 since not intending on doing any developement, I'm fine. Dec 08 03:19:49 err AT&T Dec 08 03:19:52 And I don't intend to be. Dec 08 03:20:03 brocktice: I'm not either, but I'll have no choice soon Dec 08 03:20:19 I went month to month, will stick with tmo for a few months then use it on att. Dec 08 03:20:35 http://flickr.com/photos/35034347820@N01/93928749/ Dec 08 03:20:46 Part of why I regularly donate to the EFF. Dec 08 03:20:58 lol. are you making a political statement? Dec 08 03:21:26 mmitchel, Not political as much as I don't give my money to people who help the government illegally spy on me. Dec 08 03:21:30 that death star logo is that way for a reason... Dec 08 03:21:31 It's the principle of the thing. Dec 08 03:22:06 how do you know they are doing it if they are spying? Dec 08 03:22:29 http://www.eff.org/cases/att Dec 08 03:22:44 good spys arent caught Dec 08 03:23:35 I'm pretty sure if there were nothing to hide the government wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to keep that stuff out of the courts. Dec 08 03:23:47 use tor for everything that you want secret Dec 08 03:23:55 oh, the phone sex logs with our mistresses? Dec 08 03:24:00 ITechJunkie, I do. Dec 08 03:24:13 mmitchel, Touch? Dec 08 03:24:22 no G1. Dec 08 03:24:40 It's a pretty cool system, only thing that sucks is that traffic can be snooped at the last router Dec 08 03:24:53 ITechJunkie, I used to host a Tor server. Dec 08 03:25:06 brock, I tend to agree with you, now whats your point on google kissing ass to the chinese government? Dec 08 03:25:07 I've got one of the "These aren't the nodes you're looking for" shirts. Dec 08 03:25:18 Versed, I'm not a fan of that either. Dec 08 03:25:28 brocktice: lol nice Dec 08 03:25:39 but you are sending them $425 Dec 08 03:25:49 ok 424 Dec 08 03:26:17 dont forget $50/mo to tmobile for the data plan + voice. Dec 08 03:26:33 well either way you pay Dec 08 03:26:37 Versed, I'm sending HTC $400 and google $25. Dec 08 03:26:39 mmitchel: i thought it was 70? Dec 08 03:27:00 + telecom tax Dec 08 03:27:02 mine is the 24/mo voice + 24/mo data.. so taxed and stuff it rides around 54/mo. Dec 08 03:27:05 The difference is that google admits to spying on me. Dec 08 03:27:18 mmitchel: what voice plan? Dec 08 03:27:25 individual flexpay. Dec 08 03:27:30 300 minutes Dec 08 03:27:31 ah okay Dec 08 03:27:42 its not my main number. its for playing with. Dec 08 03:27:49 * jbq_ isn't spying Dec 08 03:28:03 counter counter spying Dec 08 03:28:20 jbq_: is just letting his finger dance around the big red button. Dec 08 03:28:32 * mmitchel is bummed that android builds work in a vmware box on macos.. but cant make the exact same partition compile native :`( Dec 08 03:28:43 Anyway, sorry, this has gotten totally OT. Dec 08 03:28:47 I'll shut up. Dec 08 03:28:48 brock, tell us how it works out, if it was out when I got mine, I'd probably go that route. Dec 08 03:29:03 lol! Dec 08 03:29:03 So, NSA or Google. Who do you trust? Dec 08 03:29:03 Um, don't answer that. Dec 08 03:29:06 http://www.pixelscapes.com/spatulacity/button.htm Dec 08 03:29:22 I love that word "spatulacity". Dec 08 03:29:26 Google is a front for the NSA. Dec 08 03:29:55 jbq_, data mining I guess. It's not secret so it's not spying. Dec 08 03:30:03 oh drat; it's simply "Spatula City". I liked it better as one word Dec 08 03:30:08 DarkRiftX I am Brandorr Dec 08 03:30:14 offby1, Spatulacity was far cuperior. Dec 08 03:30:15 ahhh Dec 08 03:30:19 superior even Dec 08 03:30:32 i noticed you were editing the wiki, i had a suggestion for it but didnt want to edit while you were Dec 08 03:30:43 go for it Dec 08 03:30:56 I am done for now Dec 08 03:31:01 int here it says something liek "if you see this, you failed. then do this......." that part is confusing, it should say "if it has failed, you need to do this, if not, continue" Dec 08 03:31:04 oh, ok Dec 08 03:31:34 I had an idea last night (or was it this morning?) Dec 08 03:31:43 JesusFreke: careful with that Dec 08 03:31:50 Basically because people were getting confused by the UK directions, we decided it would prolly be best to merge the two... The US directions are much more verbose Dec 08 03:31:55 I know,I almost set the fire alarm off.. :D Dec 08 03:32:06 we should make up an "expert system", to walk people through the process Dec 08 03:32:48 JesusFreke, use this as your friendly avatar: http://www.philoking.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/clippy.png Dec 08 03:32:52 For the expert system. Dec 08 03:33:03 well, my idea was mainly for activating a G1 without sim/data plan Dec 08 03:33:26 but not a bad idea for flashing either Dec 08 03:33:57 thanks brock. I will :p Dec 08 03:34:18 i agree bgupta Dec 08 03:34:21 DarkRiftX: I also put a couple offsite links to Disconnect's blog articles (fastboot, and updating the splash image) on the main index page... Dec 08 03:34:45 random side note, i made friendly urls for those articles Dec 08 03:34:51 infobot: fastboot Dec 08 03:34:51 extra, extra, read all about it, fastboot is a reflash protocol for android devices, or source code at http://tinyurl.com/57nusq, or cheat sheet at http://www.gotontheinter.net/fastboot Dec 08 03:35:12 Wasn't sure if this is accepted practice.. which is why I am mentioning it now. (Some WIki maintainers don't like offsite links) Dec 08 03:35:29 i do not mind offsite links, but i would rather having all the info added to the wiki Dec 08 03:35:30 infobot: logo.rle Dec 08 03:35:31 well, logo.rle is http://www.gotontheinter.net/logo.rle Dec 08 03:35:32 disconnect: /cache is used for ota and other downloads in 1.0, btw Dec 08 03:35:36 which takes more time, so at first, links are ok Dec 08 03:35:39 JesusFreke: btw, is your aim to create your own version of android images with awesome stuff on them for us? Dec 08 03:35:42 JesusFreke: busybox etc? Dec 08 03:35:43 swetland: yah we talked about that earlier :) Dec 08 03:36:04 DarkRiftX: Figure that will happen in time.. for now, better to at least point to the info... Dec 08 03:36:05 lots of parts of the wiki point to forum posts and that is annoying because the threads are sometimes 50 pages long :S Dec 08 03:36:22 i try to grab info from thsoe posts and put it on the wiki Dec 08 03:36:29 * jbq_ hears "/cache" and wakes up Dec 08 03:36:32 for that matter, lots of the threads are full of stupid Dec 08 03:36:41 lol Disconnect Dec 08 03:37:11 the 50-page thing is definitely a bigger problem. Dec 08 03:37:23 thats kinda why i was hoping JesusFreke would add the info to his forum so he could moderate it better than it is at xda-devs Dec 08 03:37:25 You start at the beginning and then page through... sometimes you can try to start at the other end. Dec 08 03:37:27 bigger than false info? i'm not convinced Dec 08 03:37:29 Forums are a bit different than a self contained article I think... also I am not that familiar with this wiki markup, so figured if I pointed to it, someone could come back later and do the wiki article Dec 08 03:37:37 maqr, yeah. more or less Dec 08 03:37:48 So, three hours later you might find what you were looking for. Dec 08 03:37:54 In the mean time, you did have to wade through the stupid. Dec 08 03:38:20 well everyone, please feel free to add to the wiki, i try to update what i can, but im no guru :( Dec 08 03:38:31 DarkriftX: I also started this article: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=G1_keyboard_and_button_shortcuts Dec 08 03:38:32 android-dls.com/wiki (requires signup, but its fast and keeps spam out) Dec 08 03:38:38 quick, someone help me out and tell me why MS Exchange hates me so much Dec 08 03:39:00 ismarc, it hates everyone equally Dec 08 03:39:00 ismarc, So you'll buy a WM device. Dec 08 03:39:07 Prolly bucause you like free software Dec 08 03:39:10 nice Dec 08 03:39:10 because you ride the short bus to work? Dec 08 03:39:16 JesusFreke: awesome, so far so good :) Dec 08 03:39:26 * mmitchel does too - IT makes me Dec 08 03:39:30 ismarc: hates all android users. Dec 08 03:39:53 up until today it only acted up a few times...then today, just won't give the field I request Dec 08 03:40:06 ismarc, That's because we did a release with exchange support. Dec 08 03:40:31 brocktice: ah yes, I'm working on it for more than just my phone, so it's impossible to do Dec 08 03:40:35 What I like about wiki's is they add structure to unstructured data. Dec 08 03:40:48 yo droids, any android training material available online? Dec 08 03:40:49 IE: very easy to create a portal... Dec 08 03:41:01 mmm.... videos? Dec 08 03:41:04 training material? Dec 08 03:41:11 lots of videos are out there Dec 08 03:41:29 michaelnovakjr__: yep, presentations kinda thing Dec 08 03:41:49 There's the notepad exercises. Dec 08 03:42:02 http://www.youtube.com/androiddevelopers Dec 08 03:42:24 ok, thx Dec 08 03:42:34 are you new muthu_ ? Dec 08 03:44:45 JesesFreke: You there? Dec 08 03:45:16 no. Dec 08 03:45:18 I'm here. Dec 08 03:45:28 Disconnect suggested adding the MD5 info to this page: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Since I don't know the MD5 info can you add it to the howto? Dec 08 03:45:44 yeah, I'll try to remember to Dec 08 03:45:47 (I am assuming the MD5 info for your firmware images. Dec 08 03:45:55 I need to go through the various mirrors and check the files Dec 08 03:46:02 kk Dec 08 03:46:03 some are apparently corrupt Dec 08 03:46:04 thx Dec 08 03:46:20 JesusFreke: multiple reports? i think the one person was just having issues Dec 08 03:46:38 JesusFreke: the copy you uploaded and the copies i had uploaded 2 weeks before are identical (md5sum, size) and both show OK with zip -T, but infernix still says both are corrupted Dec 08 03:46:58 i think it was his connection Dec 08 03:47:04 probably Dec 08 03:47:13 just add the md5sums to the posts Dec 08 03:47:14 prob wifi issues with a fast download or something similar Dec 08 03:47:29 well, i dont want to do that till we double check them Dec 08 03:47:29 dissconnect, a couple of reports, yeah Dec 08 03:47:40 fair enoug Dec 08 03:47:42 h Dec 08 03:47:44 68eec9a22747accc3d51076ad465505f update_TC4-RC30_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip Dec 08 03:47:44 e51d85b6e754179ed5fb43c4b08d47be update_TC5-RC8_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip Dec 08 03:47:49 I'll download and check them Dec 08 03:47:55 thats what both of mine are Dec 08 03:48:06 i can do md5sum on the server Dec 08 03:48:22 the "official" sums are: Dec 08 03:48:31 update_TC4-RC30_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip - 68eec9a22747accc3d51076ad465505f Dec 08 03:48:45 update_TC5-RC8_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip - e51d85b6e754179ed5fb43c4b08d47be Dec 08 03:48:59 $ md5sum *.zip Dec 08 03:48:59 312f279dc5d6abd2086c003175bb7afe AndroidMod.zip Dec 08 03:48:59 68eec9a22747accc3d51076ad465505f update_TC4-RC30_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip Dec 08 03:48:59 e51d85b6e754179ed5fb43c4b08d47be update_TC5-RC8_full_xda-dev_v1.2.zip Dec 08 03:49:10 important info there Dec 08 03:49:12 thats from my shell Dec 08 03:49:19 AndroidMod.zip - 312f279dc5d6abd2086c003175bb7afe Dec 08 03:49:29 yeah, they all look right dark Dec 08 03:49:30 so mine are all good copies Dec 08 03:49:42 those are the same md5sums as in my files/apps folder Dec 08 03:49:54 I'm pretty sure nyquil has a bad copy of RC8 at least Dec 08 03:50:13 DarriftX: Are you using the md5 command to get those fingerprints? Dec 08 03:51:06 (9:49:01 PM) DarkriftX: $ md5sum *.zip Dec 08 03:52:04 that's in coreutils yeah? Dec 08 03:52:32 well It seems to be installing now, gonna see if I get the same fingerprints Dec 08 03:52:33 ok, i copied *.zip to *.xxx in files/jf (for direct download to G1) and ill try to modify those on the wiki to show both links Dec 08 03:52:41 md5sum should come with any linux distro Dec 08 03:52:49 Mac OS X here Dec 08 03:52:56 but I have macports installed Dec 08 03:53:08 openssl dgst -md5 -binary filename Dec 08 03:53:11 ahh, i c Dec 08 03:53:12 osx ships with 'mtd' Dec 08 03:53:17 er 'md5' Dec 08 03:58:51 mmitchel: I don't think you want the "-binary" flag, do you? Dec 08 03:59:14 makes sure cygwin doesnt crap on your hash. Dec 08 03:59:24 i just do it. Dec 08 03:59:43 ic Dec 08 04:07:13 on windows, there's a FileHash thing that adds hashing into the properties display for any file Dec 08 04:09:23 Ok I am waiting for a super extended battery with a "camelhump" battery cover. I suspect it's gonna be awhile? THinking I might want to get one of those USB battery packs... Anyone found any they particularly like? Dec 08 04:10:46 whew Dec 08 04:10:52 bgupta: let me know if this is better Dec 08 04:10:53 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Dec 08 04:10:57 :O put a AT&T sim card in and their DNS redirects t-mobile.com to some website with erotic pictures? wtf. Dec 08 04:11:05 i did a shitlaod of editing, and added xxx and .zip versions of all files on that page Dec 08 04:11:08 i'd love a battery life that didnt suck Dec 08 04:11:09 and reformatted it Dec 08 04:11:19 mmitchel: its a tmobile proxy problem. Dec 08 04:11:34 this is an AT&T sim. so they own the proxy too. Dec 08 04:11:40 yah? Dec 08 04:12:03 one thing i do notice however is that the battery lasts Forever once you get to 5% Dec 08 04:12:09 lol Dec 08 04:12:14 it lasts forever once oyu get to 25% Dec 08 04:12:18 tgz: thats a sign of crappy calibration Dec 08 04:12:29 25-20% is the same as 100-25 Dec 08 04:12:33 Disconnect: i thought so too Dec 08 04:12:37 no its by design... the carriers want you on that phone till it croaks. Dec 08 04:13:14 So we're saying that the battery life is fine and the % reporting is poorly calibrated? Dec 08 04:13:17 thats hold over from when every second was billed. Dec 08 04:13:23 i think to TiberiumX Dec 08 04:13:24 just that i cant seem to get it calibrated properly Dec 08 04:13:33 ive never gotten below 15% :S Dec 08 04:13:43 I think I prefer to see the actual filenames... actually in general you have made the directions more generic... I think this is premature optimization at the expense of clarty... ask JF and disc, what they think. Dec 08 04:13:45 also, lithium batterys discharge like that... they are good good good - dead. that quick. Dec 08 04:13:53 it took like 5 hours of playing games with gps, bt, wifi, and everuthing else on to get form 25% to 15% Dec 08 04:14:37 I go from 25%-dead pretty quick Dec 08 04:14:40 filenames are visible if you hover :S Dec 08 04:14:44 its hard to gague a lithium battery thats going to go from 4.2 volts to nothing volts that quick. Dec 08 04:14:54 2 ssh sessions, listenening to music and web browsing Dec 08 04:15:04 you want a coulomb counter. extra money for those. Dec 08 04:15:17 also, is system_whatever eating mad cpu for anyone else Dec 08 04:17:27 i will be using my phone for awhile and then suddenly slooooow Dec 08 04:17:39 perhaps something runaway Dec 08 04:18:30 tgz: I dont know about system_whatever, but my phone does randomly slow to a crawl, sometimes for a couple minutes Dec 08 04:18:41 Hey guys, need editorial review.. which version is easier to understand: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root&oldid=228 vs http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Dec 08 04:18:42 Acidulous, Are you running Locale? Dec 08 04:18:46 Like it'll even have trouble loading the icons for the home screen Dec 08 04:18:49 I found it to be a huge resource hog. Dec 08 04:18:51 No Dec 08 04:18:56 that happens any time you have to restart home Dec 08 04:18:57 Which is sad, because otherwise it's great. Dec 08 04:18:58 Oh okay. Dec 08 04:19:06 Disconnect, what causes Home to restart? Dec 08 04:19:07 takes 10-30 seconds Dec 08 04:19:14 The only app I have that runs in the background is Ring Control Dec 08 04:19:16 i have locale but no conditions Dec 08 04:19:30 it gets killed off just like any other app (i don't agree but its required with every app having a ton of dalvik overhead) Dec 08 04:19:40 is it a hog on its own Dec 08 04:20:02 Disconnect, oh god. Dec 08 04:20:17 That's terrible. It's the center of the phone. Dec 08 04:20:46 DarkriftX: Thinking that *I* would prefer to keep the directions as simple and non compicatied as possible, as they are really targetting newcomers. If we have to make some choices for them, then so be it. Dec 08 04:21:05 Download "service viewer" and see what you have running in the background. Dec 08 04:21:25 I've noticed a pretty strong correlation between services running that should have closed a long time ago and home exiting. Dec 08 04:22:00 TiberiumX, Another good reason to have root. Dec 08 04:22:04 kill -9 Dec 08 04:22:07 go look again bgupta Dec 08 04:22:11 and afk 3 minutes Dec 08 04:22:20 * Acidulous is rootless =[ Dec 08 04:22:30 Acidulous, me too (again) for now. Dec 08 04:22:42 lol Dec 08 04:22:50 I know the design philosophy is such that kill should not be necessary. Dec 08 04:22:59 yep. thats a place where android is really weak - dialer, home, etc should stick Dec 08 04:22:59 But philosophy aside, sometimes kill is necessary. Dec 08 04:23:06 or at least load so fast we don't notice Dec 08 04:23:28 Disconnect, yeah, the dialer should finish loading before my call goes to voicemail. Dec 08 04:23:36 hasn't been a problem yet, but sometimes it's a nailbiter. Dec 08 04:23:47 i mean dialer as in dail out Dec 08 04:23:55 imeem keeps one around, connectbot has two, I'm not sure why I have two mail services and google talk going. Doggcatcher kept a few around before I removed it. Dec 08 04:24:07 I definately like this version of the page better. Still thinking there must be some way to touch on the xx vs zip, while still providing a "prefered" path to make the procedure simpler. Dec 08 04:24:10 brocktice: is that why my phone will randomly ring like once then go to voicemail? Dec 08 04:24:15 TiberiumX, I really need to look into that. Dec 08 04:24:19 Acidulous, probably. Dec 08 04:24:34 It's fun listening to it trip all over itself trying to catch up on rings. Dec 08 04:24:45 brb. 5 mins Dec 08 04:24:47 The vibrate usually works right away though. Dec 08 04:24:47 lol Dec 08 04:24:54 that is a sign of something seriously wrong.. Dec 08 04:27:06 of course it shouldn't be needed, but I wonder how much a reboot helps Dec 08 04:27:12 Leeds, it does. Dec 08 04:27:16 ok, gauging im experiences here....has anyone else had any better luck with im clients persisting logins or do the third party apps still not run in the background Dec 08 04:27:19 Not for long. I'm going to load that service viewer. Dec 08 04:27:24 And use top maybe. Dec 08 04:27:46 tgz: I suspect it's more to do with networks coming up and going down... Dec 08 04:28:05 I'm going to do that right now actually, my curiosity has been piqued. Dec 08 04:28:09 i added md5sums to the page Dec 08 04:28:15 Leeds: I reboot mine at least once a week Dec 08 04:28:20 well, yeah, ut the sk had a pretty good solution there Dec 08 04:28:40 mine is up to 285 hours uptime Dec 08 04:29:36 awesome Dec 08 04:30:37 The process that hosts the in-bound call stuff and the in-call stuff never dies Dec 08 04:31:22 If there is no free memory because you have a lot of stuff running in the background, for example, it can take the kernel a little while to kill off things to free up memory for the in-call screen to show up Dec 08 04:31:57 ok that game sucked. i'm going to bed :/ cya all in teh AM Dec 08 04:32:19 c'ya Dec 08 04:35:23 jham: hence the suggestion that the in-call screen (and Home, in my opinion) should be pinned in RAM Dec 08 04:35:45 DarkriftX: Looking good. One optimization. I'd like to make the actual steps into numbered bullets. (Vs. notes) Mind if I edit and see what it looks like? Dec 08 04:35:46 number one priority being "be a phone" Dec 08 04:35:55 LOL Dec 08 04:35:57 i was about to do that Dec 08 04:36:00 but was gonna ask first Dec 08 04:36:11 Home isn't important to be a phone, though. Dec 08 04:36:11 GO for it. Dec 08 04:36:14 ive got an edit open so let me try it Dec 08 04:37:04 jbq_: i could argue otherwise, for the simple reason that its the home page for most everything. sure, there are shortcuts (talk button can get you to contacts via a roundabout way, and you can map eg search-m to send sms's) but realistically, you can't use it as a phone without the home screen.. Dec 08 04:37:04 When the home screen loading slows down the phone, it becomes important Dec 08 04:37:34 * Disconnect would argue, vigorously, simply because of hte amount of time i can't use it due to waiting for home to open Dec 08 04:37:56 do a bunch of web browsing or something, go to fire off a qucik sms or email and generally by the time its ready i can be at my laptop instead Dec 08 04:38:00 Disconnect: OTOH, if we forced Home to stay in RAM, everything would be a lot more painful. We tried. Dec 08 04:38:20 if there is a *chance* of missing calls - and now I think of it, I probably have - because the in-call activity takes time to load, that's a pretty big bug Dec 08 04:38:22 jpq_: Are you familiar with SpellDial? Dec 08 04:38:33 thats not a sign that "home shouldn't be in ram" thats a sign (no offense to romainguy) "home needs to be a ton smaller or load a ton faster" Dec 08 04:38:59 jbq_: would it be fair to say that the G1 is somewhat resource-constrained compared with the Android sweet spot? Dec 08 04:39:05 but i'm being dragged away by my ear :) ttyl all Dec 08 04:39:11 night Disconnect Dec 08 04:39:16 see ya Dec 08 04:39:20 * benley waves at Disconnect's wife Dec 08 04:39:25 lol Dec 08 04:39:38 I don't think having "home" in RAM is really the issue. It's forcing the user to wait innapropriately. I'm *much* more annoyed when whatever process handles the menu key from the screensaver gets terminated, because the phone goes to sleep while browsing and you can't get it back for 4-5 seconds. Dec 08 04:39:45 Disconnect: romainguy did some massive optimization work to make it load as fast as possible. The challenge is that loading Home is IO-heavy and the G1 is primarily limited by IO contention, especially since there's no notion of ordering IO based on thread priorities. Dec 08 04:39:54 so next time I don't answer a call from my boss, I can tell him "it's because of an engineer at Google called Romain Guy" :-D Dec 08 04:40:27 <_Lunch> Anyone know how to toggle bluetooth on and off? Dec 08 04:40:35 Um... dumb question: why on earth is home I/O heavy? It manages a short, static list of applications and tosses a bunch of icons on the screen... Dec 08 04:40:57 _Lunch: go into settings-->Wireless controls Dec 08 04:41:02 andyross: and loads a (potentially large) background image? Dec 08 04:41:03 from the home screen Dec 08 04:41:33 andyross: it's got to load the wallpaper, and a few settings, and the icons. Dec 08 04:41:46 Leeds: I'm not so sure it's the image that slows it.. when my phone bogs down, the background is there, the icons aren't Dec 08 04:41:55 <_Lunch> Acidulous, sorry, shouldn't specified. I want to do this programatically, not through the interface Dec 08 04:42:15 _Lunch: OH okay.. lol Dec 08 04:42:16 The number of IO is as much an issue as their size. Dec 08 04:42:28 Acidulous: it's two obvious phases... sometimes it takes a while to load at all... loads the background then waits a while... then draws icons Dec 08 04:42:32 Heh. 300k background image, more or less exactly. That's about 50ms from the sdcard, somewhat faster from /data. And it *doesn't* need to load more settings than it needs to draw the display (which, again, is a few dozen icons). That may be what it does, but it's not what it *needs* to do. Dec 08 04:42:44 so if we use a bland home screen image it should make a noticeable difference in performance? Dec 08 04:42:49 Maybe the real issue here is "home is slow" ? Dec 08 04:42:51 Is it loading all of the icons or just the ones it has to display immediately? Could they be prioritized and control given to the user when the main ones are loaded. Dec 08 04:42:57 Mine seems to stall *after* it loads the wallpaper Dec 08 04:43:01 300k background? Not at that lousy jpeg quality. Dec 08 04:43:29 300k is the size of the framebuffer. And I forget that it's actually scrollable, so more like 600k or so: 1/10th of a second. Dec 08 04:43:32 If you guys think you can do a better job, http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/apps/Launcher.git;a=summary Dec 08 04:43:56 jbq_: is Android an open source project yet? :-P Dec 08 04:44:05 romainguy has already spent a lot of time optimizing it, but if there's more he'll be glad to hear about it. Dec 08 04:45:05 "Optimizing" has to be done post-design. I think the guesswork here is that it's doing needless work, not that it's doing needless work slowly. And easy now: not all criticism is bad criticism. A slow home page is a problem worth fixing. Dec 08 04:45:17 or have there really been no changes to Home in the past 6 weeks? Dec 08 04:46:08 Leeds: not on the open-source repository. we're trying hard to sync the open-source tree with the internal one. Dec 08 04:46:21 I wonder how much difference - if any - widgets make to loading time Dec 08 04:46:30 jbq_: yeah, I know, just poking for fun :-) Dec 08 04:46:53 bgupta: step 5 was a pain because of the formatting kept starting step 6 over at 1, but i kinda got it working: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root Dec 08 04:48:43 Seriously, it's a central part of the system for absolutely every user out there, so if there's anything to discover to make it faster (yes, including a redesign, making things more asynchronous, anything), it's worth doing. And if the answer is to fix the kernel so it can reorder IO based on thread priorities, so be it. Dec 08 04:49:35 jbq_: I think our disagreement is with the antecedent of "it", not with whether or not "it" is slow. I want "it" to throw the display up on the screen and respond to user interaction as fast as possible. You want "it" to do a ton of extra junk that home happens to be doing now. Dec 08 04:50:17 gah, stupid wifi :( Dec 08 04:50:48 DarkriftX: Looking really good. For step 5 I would change the title to " Copy the recovery image to the /system partition, and make the substeps numbered as well. (It's the only bullet that has substeps. Dec 08 04:51:14 Understand what I was trying to say? Dec 08 04:52:04 Wishlist item: I want the standard dialer to launch if the keybaord is extended. If it is closed I want "SpellDial" to launch instead. (SpellDial is a Market App that allows you to search contacts without requiring you to open the keyboard, by letting you enter the contacts name T9 style and then narrowing them down.) What would we have to do to get something like that working? Dec 08 04:52:33 hmm... dapper-for-android? Dec 08 04:52:44 i dont think it has much to do with the wallpaper size / IO. Dec 08 04:53:31 is dapper what I'm thinking of? dasher! Dec 08 04:53:59 y'all have seen dasher, right? http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ Dec 08 04:54:26 lemme try bgupta Dec 08 04:55:20 dasher for quick-dialing could rock Dec 08 04:55:52 * sparkle shrugs Dec 08 04:56:18 hmm, weird bug with the Pictures app... Dec 08 04:56:33 process.com.android.camera has stopped unexpectedly, please try again. Dec 08 04:57:08 * JesusFreke feels nekkid without his G1 by his side Dec 08 04:57:12 Leeds have you tried SpellDial? Also you know the standard dialer does the fast scroll thing with the Alphabet, yes? Dec 08 04:57:32 JesusFreke: ANy idea how long the wait is? Dec 08 04:57:38 the voice dialer seems to work pretty well.. Dec 08 04:58:03 I think morrilhl (or however you spell his name :p) was saying they should ship out pretty much immediately Dec 08 04:58:55 Funny thing, I didn't even know there was a voice dialer till I accidentally discovered it yesterday. Dec 08 04:59:01 lol :) Dec 08 04:59:03 ok, they said we could replace any part of the OS including the dialer, so how do we replace the dialer with spelldial? Dec 08 04:59:05 bgupta: you mean when the keyboard is open? Dec 08 04:59:14 you can hold down the send button to get the voice dialer Dec 08 04:59:39 JesusFreke: it would be a lot more useful to be able to hold it down to get to, say, the browser Dec 08 04:59:46 JesusFreke: Yeah I know... that's what I discovered yesterday while doing the three fingered salute. Dec 08 05:00:06 leeds: meh. browser doesn't need that as a shortcut Dec 08 05:00:16 Leeds, no when it is closed. Dec 08 05:00:36 then how do I get to the browser without going to home, opening the keyboard, or holding down home? Dec 08 05:00:51 yeah.. browser is almost useless with the keyboard closed, and there is already "Search + B" shortcut. Dec 08 05:01:10 a browser shortcut on the desktop - or a direct shortcut to whatever URL with Anycut Dec 08 05:01:31 browser is very useful with the keyboard closed Dec 08 05:01:55 I guess I don't have alot of shortcuts, and bookmarks Dec 08 05:02:06 Decavolt: *without* going home first Dec 08 05:02:41 If you've used browser recently you can long press Home to get back to it Dec 08 05:02:41 steel is coming out with a soft keyboard with it's browser app. Dec 08 05:02:47 hold home, recent apps will show Dec 08 05:02:56 if you've used -- what jham said Dec 08 05:02:59 yes, I know that - and I already said without a long hold of home Dec 08 05:03:13 what's wrong with going home? Dec 08 05:03:28 Leeds.. if you start scrolling through contacts with a finger swipe, a little tap pops up on the right.. You can then use that tap to fastscroll through your contacts. Dec 08 05:03:32 if you're looking for some true alt-tab b.s. there's a app in the market that'll do that Dec 08 05:03:39 there are two available long-hold shortcuts... long-hold-home and long-hold-send, excluding long-hold power Dec 08 05:03:47 s/tap/tab/ Dec 08 05:03:47 bgupta meant: Leeds.. if you start scrolling through contacts with a finger swipe, a little tab pops up on the right.. You can then use that tap to fastscroll through your contacts. Dec 08 05:03:51 i just want something that will let me key the camera key to whatever Dec 08 05:03:58 like - hit camera, switch to connectbot Dec 08 05:03:59 etc Dec 08 05:04:09 i want a ssh session far more often than i want to take a picture :p Dec 08 05:04:21 I don't mind long-hold-home popping up the recent apps... but since I'm unlikely to use voice dialing much, I'd like to change long-hold-send (or, indeed, camera) to load the browser Dec 08 05:04:30 actually it seems the camera button is controlable from the API... Dec 08 05:04:39 sparkle: You may be able to write a little app that grabs that intent and proxies it wherever you want to go Dec 08 05:04:54 sparkle: I know you can do that for the long press on green Dec 08 05:04:59 * sparkle nods Dec 08 05:05:08 hey can i throw out a weird behavior in the dialer? Dec 08 05:05:11 not sure if it's a bug or not Dec 08 05:05:11 jham: ah, I have an itch to scratch then! Dec 08 05:05:11 long press on green just fires some well-defined intent Dec 08 05:05:14 On of the alternative launchers lets you remap it to the camera button Dec 08 05:05:51 Leeds: Just watch the logs when you long press it, the intent is something obvious that I can't remember now :-) Dec 08 05:06:22 sparkle: Sure, what's the weird bahviour you're seeing? Dec 08 05:06:42 ok - i have outgoing caller id turned off by default - it's how i handle my personal phones Dec 08 05:07:00 so for people who i want to get my caller id, i store their number prefixed with *31# Dec 08 05:07:07 which is the gsm code that enables outgoing id for that call only Dec 08 05:07:18 with me so far? Dec 08 05:07:22 yep Dec 08 05:07:24 yup Dec 08 05:07:45 if i pull up the contacts app, click on the contact phone, and then dial, it works fine Dec 08 05:07:59 if i make a shortcut to dialing the contact, it dials it without the *31# Dec 08 05:08:10 if i dial through the contacts app, then end the call Dec 08 05:08:14 and then redial it Dec 08 05:08:18 it strips the *31# as well Dec 08 05:08:24 sparkle: Using the normal shortcut to a person mechanism or Any Cut? Dec 08 05:08:33 normal shortcut Dec 08 05:08:41 i can anycut to the contact record and that works Dec 08 05:08:46 but i still have to then click on the phone number Dec 08 05:08:55 or hit dial Dec 08 05:09:06 What about an Any Cut for Direct Call? Dec 08 05:09:20 sparkle: Mine doesn't appear to do that.. I just tried Dec 08 05:09:21 doesn't work either Dec 08 05:09:33 Hrm, that's certainly a bug Dec 08 05:10:24 Acidulous: tell me exactly what you did Dec 08 05:10:39 this has been 100% consistent for me on rc28 and rc30 Dec 08 05:10:52 actuall ythe easy way to see it Dec 08 05:11:00 make a call to someone at *31#whatevernumber Dec 08 05:11:04 and then look at the dialer history Dec 08 05:11:22 created a contact with the *31# in front of it, created a shortcut on the home screen using the standard hold home screen and add shortcut, clicked on the shortcut and called it Dec 08 05:11:37 did you just shortcut to the contact record Dec 08 05:11:42 and then hit the green dial button? Dec 08 05:11:53 yea Dec 08 05:11:58 that works. Dec 08 05:11:58 is that what you're doing Dec 08 05:12:07 no Dec 08 05:12:10 try redialing it now Dec 08 05:12:23 just hit the green key again Dec 08 05:12:42 so the redial history is whats messed up there Dec 08 05:12:43 sparkle: The call log isn't storing the *31#, so the redial doesn't send that part to the network Dec 08 05:12:49 ah, yea redial removed the *31# code Dec 08 05:12:54 ok Dec 08 05:12:57 jham: why not? Dec 08 05:13:40 jham: The phone number I get from the telephony stack when storing it in the call log doesn't have that on it. I'll fix it Dec 08 05:13:41 sorry, just meant to ask if it's intended behavior Dec 08 05:13:47 err, sparkle: Dec 08 05:13:53 ahh that's what i thought Dec 08 05:13:57 that it gets passed back Dec 08 05:14:11 so what about the direct dial shortcut stripping it too? Dec 08 05:14:44 and awesome, thanks btw Dec 08 05:16:29 I'm not sure about the Any Cut case Dec 08 05:16:38 I'm looking at the code now and looks like it should work... Dec 08 05:17:40 hang on Dec 08 05:18:31 yeah, definitely doesn't work Dec 08 05:33:21 quiet room Dec 08 05:33:35 LOUD ROOM Dec 08 05:33:47 apparently, the google people DO sleep sometimes ;) Dec 08 05:34:10 I refuse to believe that. It's just a rumor, that's it. Dec 08 05:34:15 (although a quick way to test for that would be to start a debate about BeOS) Dec 08 05:36:37 bebox ftw Dec 08 05:36:59 RyeBrye: why? Dec 08 05:37:28 no reason, just to see if googlers sleep... most of the higher ups in the android team have ties to Be Dec 08 05:37:58 * jbq yawns Dec 08 05:38:11 Rye! Dec 08 05:38:13 * jbq isn't one of the higher-up, but was at Be for a while. Dec 08 05:38:20 You missed disc... Dec 08 05:38:22 speaking of beOS, man it was great am i rite? Dec 08 05:38:27 hmm question, do I have to use headphones for telephone on G1? Dec 08 05:38:47 I can not find a mic like thing on G1. Dec 08 05:38:48 bgupta: yeah, I think I saw his blog post - he figured out imagemagick stuff, right? Dec 08 05:38:58 BeOS was interesting. Did quite a few things rights, quite a few wrong. Dec 08 05:39:11 I am not sure if he figured it out, or he used the syntax I gave him Dec 08 05:39:19 hubar: you have to use a cordless microphone Dec 08 05:39:32 hubar: it works well, but you have to buy it separately Dec 08 05:39:48 hubar: the primary purpose of the G1 is as a device to get root on Dec 08 05:40:07 I know... Dec 08 05:40:16 hubar: you have to use this headset: http://www.tagpilotsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1503 Dec 08 05:40:26 I am not so good at talking, that is why I bought it:) Dec 08 05:40:26 or one larger Dec 08 05:40:37 bgupta: - ah, so you figured out the imagemagic :) Dec 08 05:40:53 hubar, are you asking if you can call on the G1 without a headset? Dec 08 05:41:26 RyeBrye: I actually tried one of those. It works, but you can barely hear anything. I've found that larger ones work better (especially if they're integrated with a helmet of some kind) Dec 08 05:41:28 the mic is a little hole at the bottom, near the usb port Dec 08 05:41:49 I hopped on #imagemagick and they confirmed my syntax. ;) Dec 08 05:42:12 Ah. Smart thinking Dec 08 05:42:30 JesusFreke: yes Dec 08 05:42:38 yes. you can :p Dec 08 05:42:39 that was my question... Dec 08 05:42:57 shhh.. but I think everyone is trying to pull your leg Dec 08 05:43:34 hubar: http://bp3.blogger.com/_0BoO175xieM/SFZdnEZ_W7I/AAAAAAAADW8/QYELxGbaLmk/s1600-h/IMG_2585.JPG I have to use this to place calls reliably Dec 08 05:43:42 JesusFreke: once you try a helmet-mic with your phone, you'll never go back Dec 08 05:43:43 It's annoying, because it messes up my hair, but at least the phone OS is open Dec 08 05:43:57 JesusFreke: it's like the built-in mic doesn't even exist Dec 08 05:44:02 damn. I guess I'll have to try one :p Dec 08 05:44:13 RyeBrye: THAT'S THE ONE! Dec 08 05:44:25 Damn it is huge! Dec 08 05:44:34 You know what's funny, I've had my G1 since the day before the launch, and I've maybe used it for voice for a total of 8 mins. (I didn't buy it for voice.. T-Mobile coverage sucks where I live.. So I still carry a sprint phone too) Dec 08 05:44:43 You should post a pic that is a QB helmet. :) Dec 08 05:45:12 I found Tmobile's 3g network is very spotty. Dec 08 05:46:02 Their regular network was even worse. I couldn't get any signal in my office. Dec 08 05:46:22 APparently 3G has allowed them to extend their coverage a bit Dec 08 05:46:22 3g seems fine where I am (dallas area) Dec 08 05:46:43 never had any coverage issues here. 3g or otherwise Dec 08 05:46:45 I get awesome edge coverage.. but I live down the street from a cell tower, and there is a tower on top of the building i work in. 3G coverage isn't very good though Dec 08 05:47:00 I read somewhere that T-Mobile only has 10% of the new york city bandwidth. Dec 08 05:47:22 I have good coverage in my house Dec 08 05:47:39 I live in a cement bunker 16 feet below the ground Dec 08 05:47:59 maybe that's why I need to have the helmet to make calls... dunnop Dec 08 05:48:37 Do you also have an antenna tower? Dec 08 05:48:46 It's really annoying that we are gonna have to wait a long time for big VZ to roll out their 700MHz LTE network. Dec 08 05:49:02 Pretty much it's gonna be the network to be on... Dec 08 05:49:07 I just want fios.. :D Dec 08 05:49:42 JF: I can't get FIOS but I have 6Mbit/768 DSL and a T1 link as my backup. Dec 08 05:50:26 I have something around 8/1 cable Dec 08 05:50:41 bgupta: hmm i wonder if they will have b/w caps on it like most other wireless stuff :/ Dec 08 05:50:41 but no T1 backup :p Dec 08 05:51:07 I have 20/2 cable... I love it Dec 08 05:51:14 nice acid :) Dec 08 05:51:38 http://gigaom.com/2008/02/22/dreaming-of-wireless-broadband/ Dec 08 05:54:21 One thing about the 700MHz LTE network Verizon is building.. they got snookered into having to make it open access.. meaning I can bring my own device... so it will definately support Android devices, even if Verizon doesn't. THis will be the network ANdroid shines on. Dec 08 05:54:24 . Dec 08 05:55:21 I need help getting my SOCKS proxy to work when trying to tether my G1. Can anyone help? Dec 08 05:56:06 bgupta: Won't that be a CDMA network? Dec 08 05:59:49 ordered my dev phone ! Dec 08 06:00:56 Nafai: My understanding is that it is a new standard altogether... Gonna double check. Dec 08 06:00:56 alexissoft, gimme the wicked sweet back from it. Dec 08 06:01:21 It's 4G Dec 08 06:01:28 Interesting Dec 08 06:01:32 :) Dec 08 06:01:41 Can anyone help me tether my G1? Dec 08 06:01:44 I drop Verizon after 5 years to go to t-mobile for the g1 Dec 08 06:02:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution Dec 08 06:02:43 s/drop/dropped/ Dec 08 06:02:43 Nafai meant: I dropped Verizon after 5 years to go to t-mobile for the g1 Dec 08 06:02:55 there, i finsihed my android on vogue manual. http://distro.jjhosting.org/engl-170/user_manual.pdf Dec 08 06:03:07 nafai, let tmo know about it they will be glad to hear. Dec 08 06:04:46 yeah.. well I kept my SPrint account, because T-Mobile sucks where I live.. also, I only pay $25 for my sprint line, cause I have a family plan Dec 08 06:05:25 gj on the doc there joeyjones. Dec 08 06:06:52 joeyjones: Is that the permanent location? If so you might want to throw a link to the doc in the hacking section here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Dec 08 06:07:19 bgupta: it's a temp location Dec 08 06:07:40 i did it as an english assignment :p Dec 08 06:08:40 lol Dec 08 06:10:14 bgupta: probably 4x the length he wanted though... Dec 08 06:10:21 lol Dec 08 06:16:49 DarkriftX: You still working on bullet 5? It still seems the same? Dec 08 06:17:11 i kinda gave up on reformatting it Dec 08 06:17:14 i kept messing it up Dec 08 06:17:20 mediawiki bullets are a pain in the ass to stack Dec 08 06:17:32 K.. I'll take a stab at tomorrow if I have time Dec 08 06:17:39 the 
 screws up the bullets
Dec 08 06:18:01  well, the 
 with linebreaks does, which is why i instead used 4x pre's
Dec 08 06:18:52  It's 1:18am here.. wanna catch a some scifi, and am too tired to do anything that requires any real concentration.
Dec 08 06:19:14  In any case, It's looking alot better..
Dec 08 06:19:27  wikis are all about incremental improvement
Dec 08 06:19:41  and collaboration
Dec 08 06:20:08  ? why do you need pre's for bullets?
Dec 08 06:20:10  *
Dec 08 06:20:11  **
Dec 08 06:20:17  that stacks bullets, does it not?
Dec 08 06:20:18  The numbered bullets really do help..
Dec 08 06:20:21  #
Dec 08 06:20:23  ##
Dec 08 06:21:02  http://www.otal.umd.edu/wiki/help/index.php?title=Bullets
Dec 08 06:21:19  RyeBrye: If you have some braincells still awake.. take a look at bullet 5: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Dec 08 06:22:02  what do you want to do to it?
Dec 08 06:22:12  I suggested that the substeps be numbered as well, and the title for the bullet changed to "Copy the recovery image to the /system partition
Dec 08 06:22:23  RyeBrye: the pre in the bullets are for code
Dec 08 06:22:35  ** 
code to type into terminal here

Dec 08 06:22:36  etc
Dec 08 06:22:39  (It's the one major step with substeps
Dec 08 06:22:59  I just changed it - is that what you wanted?
Dec 08 06:23:48  Partially... may I edit?
Dec 08 06:23:55  yes, go ahead
Dec 08 06:24:10  preview before saving though, those stacked bullets are easy to screw up
Dec 08 06:24:21  yes, I did preview mine before saving
Dec 08 06:24:29  but I also have revert on my account too :)
Dec 08 06:26:44  Check it now.. this is basically what I wanted http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Dec 08 06:27:24  Cool. The 
 line under #11 should be intended too, I think
Dec 08 06:27:30  DarkriftX: What do you think?
Dec 08 06:27:49 * RyeBrye probably thinks DarkriftX is happy that someone other that he is editing the wiki :)
Dec 08 06:27:54  yes
Dec 08 06:28:00  that works
Dec 08 06:28:20  i want it to be easy to read and accurate
Dec 08 06:28:24  and i love that others are editing it
Dec 08 06:28:41  im not too picky, but i do like bulleted lists more than just paragraphs
Dec 08 06:29:14  RyeBrye: How does it look now? (11)
Dec 08 06:30:08  looks good to me
Dec 08 06:31:17  Cool. I think we are done for now... At some point I think this doc should prolly be updated for Eng. bootloader as well, as it seems that will be pretty par for the course..
Dec 08 06:34:25  im hoping all the new info makes it on the wiki, but im not comfortable enough to add it myself :(
Dec 08 06:34:43  i like taking what others wrote and editing the wording so im a little more sure of the accuracy
Dec 08 06:35:25  also bgupta if you idle in #android-downloads i have eggdrop bots that notify you of new wiki/forum posts
Dec 08 06:35:32  lets me know when someone is making changes :)
Dec 08 06:38:51  Hi all
Dec 08 06:39:28  do android packet video uses OpenMax ?
Dec 08 06:40:44  do android packet video uses OpenMax  ?
Dec 08 06:43:00  hmm, is adb shell  not capable of  binary transfer?
Dec 08 06:43:28  e.g. adb shell "dd if=/sdcard/test.mp3 bs=2048 2>/dev/null" > test.mp3
Dec 08 06:43:29  adb shell?
Dec 08 06:43:52  an md5sum comparison between the two shows differences, as does vbindiff
Dec 08 06:44:12  So I just got my G1 up today and found out about the dev version.  Is the hardware going to be identical, meaning tmob's 3G stuff will still work? Other than being unlocked, I assume the only differences will be the tmob software (like myfaves).  Is that true?
Dec 08 06:44:15  I have onyl used adb pull / push to pull things - never tried to get teh output of the commands that way like that
Dec 08 06:44:20  i guess it's because it's a terminal?
Dec 08 06:44:28  Captain_Dingo: it seems likely
Dec 08 06:44:30  Captain_Dingo: yeah, that's pretty true
Dec 08 06:44:42  and it's unlocked on both the sim level and the ability to update firmware
Dec 08 06:44:52  dingo: yeah. same hardware. main thing is that it has an unlocked bootloader
Dec 08 06:44:57  Captain_Dingo: and you get root on those phones easliy - whereas if you are on RC30+ on the G1 you can't unless someone hacks it
Dec 08 06:45:05  yup. the differences are cosmetic, radio lock configuration, and bootloader
Dec 08 06:45:34  Don't forget the badass rear cover, that makes the whole phone worth it
Dec 08 06:45:38  cosmetic, meaning a freakin' awesome back cover :D
Dec 08 06:45:55  Yeah, gotta have the cover :P
Dec 08 06:46:00  i want to see the delorean version
Dec 08 06:46:02  unpainted stainless
Dec 08 06:46:04 * sparkle laughs
Dec 08 06:46:08  hehe
Dec 08 06:46:36  So we're thinking we won't lose anything by going to the dev version?  I'm intrigued, but I need it to be my phone too, not just a dev toybox
Dec 08 06:46:50  swetland: the UART3 serial debugging tx and rx pins are shared with the handset stuff, right?
Dec 08 06:47:06  and actually a cameraless version at some point would be nice
Dec 08 06:47:06  Captain_Dingo: You won't lose any functionality
Dec 08 06:47:15  there are a lot of places where they confiscate cameraphones :p
Dec 08 06:47:23  cool.  I think my tmob store's about to get a return
Dec 08 06:47:25  captain_dingo: I suspect you could flash the t-mobile software onto the dev phone
Dec 08 06:47:44  swetland: do you know the difference between /dev/mtd/mtdX|mtdXro and the respective device under /dev/block/*?
Dec 08 06:47:56  there's nothing really special on here that I could see beyond a couple apps and the awesomeness that is the t-jingle ringtone
Dec 08 06:47:59  sparkle: That's why the G1 camera was made so crappy. NOBODY would care to confiscate that device ;)
Dec 08 06:48:06  special meaning tmob specific
Dec 08 06:48:36  uhh infernix: char vs block devices
Dec 08 06:48:41  I like the camera.. I think it's like a time machine.  It shows me three seconds into the future from when I pushed the button :)
Dec 08 06:48:43  like /dev/dsk vs rdsk
Dec 08 06:48:53  lol
Dec 08 06:49:00  yeah and the future's always blurry anyway...
Dec 08 06:49:02  i think the camera is the worst part of the phone
Dec 08 06:49:12  barely works for barcode reading, but thats all it works for
Dec 08 06:49:27  I think it's more software than the camera
Dec 08 06:49:30  i wouldn't mind a "just save what i can see on the screen right NOW darnit i don't care about any more focusing of resolution" :p
Dec 08 06:50:21  sparkle: I think the camera is higher res than the buffer that is put on screen
Dec 08 06:50:26  sure
Dec 08 06:50:28  but yeah, I could see where just saving the low-res buffer would help
Dec 08 06:50:36  but sometimes i don't need 3 megapixels three seconds from now
Dec 08 06:50:45  If you hold the button half-way to focus and then take it, it goes a lot faster
Dec 08 06:50:49  my wife took my g1 :(
Dec 08 06:50:51  if elvis goes by in a ufo
Dec 08 06:50:54  she loves that trap game
Dec 08 06:50:56 * sparkle chuckles
Dec 08 06:51:10  i always get nervous when she has it
Dec 08 06:51:13  DarkriftX: that's funny. Maybe she'll buy you a dev phone for christmas and keep your christmas present for herself
Dec 08 06:51:15  I deleted the trap game.. because my girlfriend would play it for hours
Dec 08 06:51:23 * RyeBrye goes to download the trap game
Dec 08 06:51:24  my gf too...
Dec 08 06:51:25  like handing your newborn to a crackhead, you know they willd rop it
Dec 08 06:51:27  drop*
Dec 08 06:51:29 * RyeBrye may never return
Dec 08 06:51:38  RyeBrye: nah, we are broke now lol
Dec 08 06:51:49  yeah, December has a tendency to do that to people
Dec 08 06:51:55  trap game?
Dec 08 06:52:04  rye: yeah, the uart and wired headset stuff is multiplexed
Dec 08 06:52:15  to be fair, I like it too
Dec 08 06:52:18  rye: the "H2W" support for htc/trout is what manages all that
Dec 08 06:52:21  yeah, balls bounch and you have to draw lines to block them off
Dec 08 06:52:35  there are like 4 games with the same name, but trap is the best of them
Dec 08 06:52:46  swetland: yeah, I think sparkle actually found the stuff in the code to find it -I just wanted to sound like the smart kid by reading her notes and raising my hand ;)
Dec 08 06:52:52  s/same name/same play style/
Dec 08 06:52:52  DarkriftX meant: there are like 4 games with the same play style, but trap is the best of them
Dec 08 06:53:00 * sparkle nods
Dec 08 06:53:04  I like scrambled net
Dec 08 06:53:05  lOh. THAT trap game
Dec 08 06:53:07  I hate that trap game
Dec 08 06:53:11  just a pity about the couple of glaring bugs in it
Dec 08 06:53:13  damn lines move too slow
Dec 08 06:53:16  i saw the uart notes in board-trout-h2w.c
Dec 08 06:53:23  RyeBrye: thats the point
Dec 08 06:53:29  its a challenge
Dec 08 06:53:30  lol
Dec 08 06:53:30  RyeBrye: if you start the lines in the middle they go faster (2x)
Dec 08 06:53:47  and also you get all the floating S's and you can use the speed bar (instant line drawn)
Dec 08 06:53:51  If I wanted a challenge, I'd go to work! :)
Dec 08 06:53:52  its really addicting
Dec 08 06:54:37  unless you get one of those games where - for some reason - it decides not to give you any bonuses
Dec 08 06:57:35 * DarkriftX goes to bed
Dec 08 06:57:36  gn all
Dec 08 06:58:41  night
Dec 08 07:00:27  btw - the new version of streamfurious is quite a bit lighter on cpu
Dec 08 07:03:53  hi
Dec 08 07:27:54  swetland: http://www.ryebrye.com/files/splashimage.sh made a simple bash script for you - uses image magick and fastboot to take an image (png / bmp / whatever) and flash the splash screen on the phone :)
Dec 08 07:28:11  well... not really "for you" since I assume you don't really need it - but for anyone I suppose
Dec 08 07:28:29  the bash script is pretty rudimentary - but it gets the job done (at least for me)
Dec 08 07:29:42  been some really sweet advancements since I was around last
Dec 08 07:30:20  Yeah, the fastboot bit is huge :)
Dec 08 07:30:52  I wanted to create that script prior to people relying on just passing aroudn rgb565 files to distribute boot screens - in particular because I don't want to be goatsed on my own phone
Dec 08 07:31:09  (rgb565 files are not exactly easy to preview on a computer)
Dec 08 07:45:34  http://ryebrye.com/images/android_boot_image_black2.png is the one I"m using now - it's almost the same as the one I posted yesterday, but I added a small amount of noise to remove banding in the gradient when it was displaying on the phone
Dec 08 07:48:48  the guy sitting across from me is talking someone through setting up something over serial... I haven't heard anyone say 8N1 for quite a while...
Dec 08 07:49:21  I only use serial crap for device hacking now
Dec 08 07:50:10  well, he has been turning a cisco box on his desk on and off all morning
Dec 08 08:11:28  Hiro2, is any way to show Persian or Arabic chars on android browser ? I copy some font on /system/fonts but did not worked
Dec 08 08:26:44  hi all
Dec 08 08:34:01  well, after nearly 24 hours of owning a G1, I'm quite impressed with it :)
Dec 08 08:34:29  yeah, they are nice phones
Dec 08 08:34:38  and will only get better with time
Dec 08 08:35:38  are you on RC30 already? if not, you should hack it and preserve root access to ensure the phone will be relevant indefinitely
Dec 08 08:35:57  i.e. it will be able to get updates long after t-mobile decides they don't want to push updates out for it... etc
Dec 08 08:36:02  infobot: keepingroot
Dec 08 08:36:07  infobot: root
Dec 08 08:36:08  it has been said that root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.
Dec 08 09:24:49  RyeBrye, I did that last night :)
Dec 08 09:54:45  are there any good official docs on .dex and how it relates to .class?
Dec 08 09:56:29 <[nine]> that's a dalvik thing, isn't it?
Dec 08 09:56:34  yeah
Dec 08 09:56:42  the bytecode
Dec 08 09:58:05  http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/dalvik.git;a=tree;f=docs;h=f2fb051b2c110fc536a21d8c43f1cd0726294e27;hb=HEAD
Dec 08 09:58:31  swetland: thanks :)
Dec 08 09:58:43  np
Dec 08 09:59:05  Will the developer phones ship directly from the countries they are offered in ? (or do the developers have to pay some duty? )
Dec 08 09:59:19  anno^da_: there are shipping costs, they are quite high
Dec 08 09:59:28  although for the US it's free, apparently
Dec 08 09:59:40  but a lot of the prices for european countries are in the USD 200 range
Dec 08 09:59:59 <[nine]> "The Android build system and tools do not support the obsolete PowerPC architecture." !
Dec 08 10:00:00  are they 399$ for every country or more for the countries outside the US ?
Dec 08 10:00:02 <[nine]> obsolete!
Dec 08 10:00:04 <[nine]> poor powerpc :(
Dec 08 10:00:17  anno^da_: I think the device itself is always USD 399
Dec 08 10:00:57  djc: great thanks. (and this happens 2 days after getting my imported phone :D)
Dec 08 10:02:05  anno^da_: too bad :|
Dec 08 10:02:14  I ordered the dev phone yesterday, I hope it shows up soon
Dec 08 10:02:20  excited to get started!
Dec 08 10:02:40  :-)
Dec 08 10:03:08  Well after having a modified RC8 it is not that bad since I can flash any system image as well
Dec 08 10:03:32  Will the dev phone be available with the nice back cover ?
Dec 08 10:05:06  is there a dashboard overview of l10n completion?
Dec 08 10:08:42  infobot logging
Dec 08 10:08:57  infobot: logs
Dec 08 10:08:58  All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Dec 08 10:21:38  lol the shipping to Germany is 178$
Dec 08 10:21:56  my import including the unlock was way cheaper :P
Dec 08 10:49:36  hey there :-) I'm a total android newbie, but I've been developing for mobile devices for a bit now. Recently, we've had great success with giving old PDA's new life (flash 'em with debian and run python on them, or pythonce on wm5/6). I was wondering if anyone knows what the state of python is on the android?
Dec 08 10:50:01  I'm assuming the first candidate will either be PyPy or a Jython modification?
Dec 08 10:50:51  What is the proper way to leave the tri-color boot loader?
Dec 08 11:01:35  lvh: there's Jythondroid
Dec 08 11:01:53  but there's no CPython effort at this point
Dec 08 11:02:07  and porting stuff to Dalvik needs some work, I think
Dec 08 11:03:11 <[nine]> anno^da_: pull th ebattery out.
Dec 08 11:03:34  [nine]: thank you. So there is no other way to achieve it. :-)
Dec 08 11:04:19 <[nine]> anno^da_: doesn't look like it. there's no usb access, so you can't issue a boot command, and the power key does nothing.
Dec 08 11:04:21  anno: SEND-MENU-END will reboot out of the bootloader
Dec 08 11:04:44  thank you swetland
Dec 08 11:05:16 <[nine]> swetland: gosh. it's controllable?
Dec 08 11:05:38  hm? it honors the same three-finger-salute the kernel does
Dec 08 11:06:31  swetland: It is nice to see the developer devices now. :-)
Dec 08 11:06:34 <[nine]> swetland: i wasn't aware that the bootloader accepted any relevany input from the keyboard.
Dec 08 11:06:43 <[nine]> s/relevany/relevant/
Dec 08 11:06:43  [nine] meant: swetland: i wasn't aware that the bootloader accepted any relevant input from the keyboard.
Dec 08 11:07:07 <[nine]> ha. not seen that before.
Dec 08 11:07:12  anno: it's very nice to see them finally ship. wish we could have shipped 'em sooner.
Dec 08 11:07:38  swetland: they're going to ship in three days or so, right?
Dec 08 11:08:01  I don't know any of the details about the fullfillment of orders
Dec 08 11:08:20  I just told people repeatedly "we need to make development devices available for people who want to do system level development"
Dec 08 11:08:23  swetland: yeah I couln't wait any longer so I imported one but with the replacement SPL I should be fine now even with the original G1.
Dec 08 11:08:53  swetland: also, for those in countries without a G1 :)
Dec 08 11:09:11  swetland: But it is great to see the support for non US countries now.
Dec 08 11:09:17  well, we did not anticipate slipping up so badly with this root console thing, so this had been in the works to make sure there would be some way for people to do systems development
Dec 08 11:09:57  give carriers things they want and developers things they want and hopefully have everybody reasonably happy at the end of the day
Dec 08 11:10:21  And the good thing is no more T-Mobile stuff any more. :-) The hundreds of sent SMS through the MyFavs app had been very annoying. :)
Dec 08 11:12:29 * swetland wonders how long until somebody ports openmoko ^^
Dec 08 11:13:10  and the iPhone :)
Dec 08 11:13:56  I mean ports openmoko to the dream hw.  That'd probably be simpler than porting mobileosx or whatever they call the iphone os to it
Dec 08 11:14:51  oh, right :)
Dec 08 11:17:19  By the way is it normal that the app menue from the home application is running a bit laggy on the G1 ?
Dec 08 11:19:28  the menu? or the drawer thing with all the apps in it?
Dec 08 11:19:50  I don't recall seeing much lag with the menu, but sometimes the app drawer seems a bit slow to pop up
Dec 08 11:20:14  there's probably a couple million lines of code between the kernel and the homescreen though, so not really sure what's going on up there ^^
Dec 08 11:20:33  the drawer thing. :-)
Dec 08 11:21:38  scrolling through all the apps is pretty slow. In addition I recognized that rebooting the phone once a day left me with a big improvement of performance.
Dec 08 11:55:45  swetland: is there some kind of l10n overview?
Dec 08 11:55:59  like, if I want to work on nl-NL, where are the gaps right now?
Dec 08 12:01:52  djc: good question.  I'm not the right guy to ask -- I work at the kernel level and they don't let me write code that actually interacts with users
Dec 08 12:02:34  might be a good topic to bring up on one of the dev lists
Dec 08 12:02:35 <[nine]> swetland: itym "i don't do userspace" :)
Dec 08 12:02:49  I know the frameworks folks read 'em
Dec 08 12:03:02  well, I do *some* userspace... init... libc... adb... ^^
Dec 08 12:03:39  but definitely no java, frameworks, or apps code for me
Dec 08 12:05:39  hey guys
Dec 08 12:23:23  hi, i am on my laptop and I cannot use my home key or keypad 7 key to switch to landscape. How do I do it?
Dec 08 12:24:49 <[nine]> louzer: i don't think the emulator can switch orientation. as i recall, you have to restart it with a different orientation parameter.
Dec 08 12:24:58 <[nine]> actually, it might be a skin parameter.
Dec 08 12:25:54  [nine], It can, at least with the G1 skin, it's numpad 7.
Dec 08 12:26:40 <[nine]> brocktice: aha. i didn't read the emulator docs.
Dec 08 12:26:46  anyone?
Dec 08 12:27:09 <[nine]> louzer:
Dec 08 12:27:11 <[nine]> 12:25 < brocktice_zzz> [nine], It can, at least with the G1 skin, it's numpad 7.
Dec 08 12:27:16 <[nine]> are you using the g1 skin?
Dec 08 12:27:29  no I am not using G1 skin
Dec 08 12:27:49  I'm not sure whether it's supposed to work with the default skin
Dec 08 12:27:57  oh ok
Dec 08 12:28:04  I will get the G1 skin
Dec 08 12:28:18  can the default skin be landscaped?
Dec 08 12:28:23  wait
Dec 08 12:28:30  numpad 7 rotates the default skin for me
Dec 08 12:28:31  just tried it
Dec 08 12:28:44  yeah, that worked for me too yesterday
Dec 08 12:28:57  oh! that means it is my keyboard
Dec 08 12:29:07  louzer, Are you using the embedded numpad on the laptop keyboard?
Dec 08 12:29:11  yes
Dec 08 12:29:20  I am pressing the Fn key
Dec 08 12:29:24  hm
Dec 08 12:29:27  try numlock?
Dec 08 12:29:27  to activate it
Dec 08 12:29:30  ok
Dec 08 12:29:56  Ubuntu doesnt support num lock on macbook pro
Dec 08 12:30:02  ahh
Dec 08 12:30:45  how about ctrl+f12?
Dec 08 12:31:38  why use ubuntu on a macbook pro?
Dec 08 12:31:55  because tiger doesnt have expose
Dec 08 12:32:58  anyone knows how to activate a g1 in belgium with mobistar ?
Dec 08 12:33:19  if you have the apn informations
Dec 08 12:35:58  yo.
Dec 08 12:36:26  hmepas_2__: dammit.... get lost stupid afk home pc.
Dec 08 12:37:30  made $10 more w oop
Dec 08 12:37:48  I need someone to handle support for me though sigh
Dec 08 12:37:49  hap: when you get to the point where it tries to go online, press the menu key and it will let you enter your APN info
Dec 08 12:38:30  Leeds: i saw that but i don t know the apn information for mobistar. I use a French network normaly, but i m in belgium now for few days where I got that g1
Dec 08 12:38:41  and i obviously don t want to wait i m back to france to activate it
Dec 08 12:38:45  is your SIM from france?
Dec 08 12:38:48  yes
Dec 08 12:39:13  then if you enter the french information it *might* roam onto the belgian network and activate - but you'll be paying roaming charges
Dec 08 12:39:15  and my iphone does not let me see the current apn information i have for mobistar
Dec 08 12:39:28  unless you have a SIM from mobistar, you won't be able to use their APN anyway
Dec 08 12:39:30  yeah i don t mind, i guess the roaming will be small.
Dec 08 12:39:42  YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED :-)
Dec 08 12:39:44  ok i ll try to enter the french network information then
Dec 08 12:39:47  yeah
Dec 08 12:39:49  anyway, put the French info in and see how it goes
Dec 08 12:39:59  if i pay 100 euros for activation because of the roaming i ll kick someone s ass
Dec 08 12:40:03  ok
Dec 08 12:40:09  else i ll find a local nice guy at the devoxx conference
Dec 08 12:40:16  with a local sim card
Dec 08 12:40:20  that should work right ?
Dec 08 12:40:22  also an option yes
Dec 08 12:40:35  ok
Dec 08 12:40:36  perfect
Dec 08 12:40:41  good luck :-)
Dec 08 12:40:43  let s try the A plan.
Dec 08 12:40:59  whee, the android irc client works
Dec 08 12:41:13  brockdroid: nice!
Dec 08 12:41:20  are there any screenshots?
Dec 08 12:41:38  don't know but i can take one
Dec 08 12:41:43  hang on
Dec 08 12:42:39  brockdroid: are you using IRCell, or something else?
Dec 08 12:43:08  djc, using something called "ircbeta.apk"
Dec 08 12:43:19  desktop keyboard is easier. :)
Dec 08 12:43:36  someone mentioned it here this weekend so I thought I'd try it.
Dec 08 12:45:36  http://brocktice.com/images/irc/android_ircbeta.png
Dec 08 12:46:03  does anyone know how mibbit works?
Dec 08 12:46:11  because that would be the killer irc app
Dec 08 12:46:21  something that doesnt actually need to maintain an active connection
Dec 08 12:46:27  the dl is here: http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?topic=5959.0
Dec 08 12:46:32  brocktice: nice :)
Dec 08 12:46:41  I can't wait for my dev phone :)
Dec 08 12:46:46  ditto
Dec 08 12:48:14  Nice, swipe between channels like connectbot.
Dec 08 12:48:21  12-08 07:48:00.642: WARN/SQLiteDirectCursorDriver(274): Found SQL string that ends in ; -- SELECT last_insert_rowid();
Dec 08 12:48:21   wtf
Dec 08 12:48:30  wrong chan i guess
Dec 08 12:52:19  anyone think being able to send texts from your phone on any computer would be killer?
Dec 08 12:52:51  sounds fun, but not killer
Dec 08 12:54:54  i wanna launch something AWESOME for when the market starts allowing charging
Dec 08 12:55:41  hmm, I wanna do wake-on-lan over 802.11 using my phone
Dec 08 12:56:01  i thought there was a wake over lan app in the market
Dec 08 12:56:15  might be, I haven't gone through the market
Dec 08 12:56:33  is 'fastboot devices' supposed to output anything?
Dec 08 12:56:38  djc: there is 'droidWake'
Dec 08 12:57:30  is a.c/market the only web interface to the market right now?
Dec 08 12:57:34  because it's... crappy
Dec 08 12:59:42  a.c/market?
Dec 08 12:59:48  android.com/market
Dec 08 12:59:48  android.com/market
Dec 08 12:59:52  I had a little trouble with that
Dec 08 13:00:05  djc: its not reallly a web interface to the market
Dec 08 13:00:40  blau-MikeDG: I agree! so is there one?
Dec 08 13:01:36  hrm...  anyone here use fastboot yet?
Dec 08 13:02:45  infobot: fastboot
Dec 08 13:02:46  [fastboot] a reflash protocol for android devices, or source code at http://tinyurl.com/57nusq, or cheat sheet at http://www.gotontheinter.net/fastboot
Dec 08 13:02:56  SplasPood: check the cheat sheet. add to it if something is missing.
Dec 08 13:03:14  (i need to get the flash partition sizes. i have them, i was just lazy :) ..)
Dec 08 13:03:19  Disconnect: heh, well the cheat sheet shows the params not how to make it work :P
Dec 08 13:03:22  djc: none yet, i hope to god they get one
Dec 08 13:03:35  i feel like the market is a bust so far
Dec 08 13:03:38  maybe you have a different question than "has anyone used it"
Dec 08 13:03:45  Disconnect: once you boot into flashboot is there something you have to do to put it into command mode?
Dec 08 13:03:48  anyway i gotta go to work. bbl. :)
Dec 08 13:03:51  and it seems to be back to bumping your app on updates
Dec 08 13:03:53  Disconnect: that was my opener ;)
Dec 08 13:04:08  ah .. yes. thats something that should be on the cheat sheet. plug in usb, then hit back and it'll light up to FASTBOOT instead of SERIAL0
Dec 08 13:04:20  but i'm really out the door now.
Dec 08 13:04:25  Disconnect: thats what I just discovered, cool
Dec 08 13:04:28  no problem
Dec 08 13:06:08  nice, now I got it working perfectly.. cool.
Dec 08 13:07:30  Leeds: A Plan does not work
Dec 08 13:07:41  doesn't connect?
Dec 08 13:07:44  i guess i ll go for B plan, ask someone who has a local sim card
Dec 08 13:07:50  just says can t connect and activate
Dec 08 13:08:00  i added the french apn, but i saw no way to select it
Dec 08 13:08:02  hmm...
Dec 08 13:08:04  so i guess it s automatic, right?
Dec 08 13:08:06  um...
Dec 08 13:08:29  I could be completely wrong, but it's possible there are two different activations - a t-mobile one and a google one
Dec 08 13:09:33  Anyone here in the iPhone scene?
Dec 08 13:09:54  what "scene" do you mean, exactly? :)
Dec 08 13:09:54  Gary|tp: i m an iphone developer
Dec 08 13:09:55  anyway, I need to go to mongkok... good luck!
Dec 08 13:09:58  what is the scene about?
Dec 08 13:10:16  Leeds: yeah i ll ask the android developer next by me
Dec 08 13:10:19  grrr at the emulator not having a device id
Dec 08 13:10:28  when he finished his conference.
Dec 08 13:10:37  hap: I've got someone telling me that the chipset in the iPhone supports the 1700 frequency for T-Mobile, but I have yet to find anything on it.
Dec 08 13:11:06  Gary|tp: ah that scene, don t know about the frequency
Dec 08 13:12:55  hrm, I'd love to commment on Disconnect's cheat sheet but I can't for the life of me find the section to commment in.
Dec 08 13:23:44  anyone wanna chat about some security related stuff to an app im working on?
Dec 08 13:25:06  blau-MikeDG, bring it
Dec 08 13:26:25  im planning on allowing users to send text messages from their phone through a web interface
Dec 08 13:26:39  so they could be at any web accessable computer and have their phone send a txt
Dec 08 13:27:04  i was planning on storing the texts in a db and periodically querying the server for any texts waitinf to be sent
Dec 08 13:27:21  yep
Dec 08 13:27:22  i was going to use the google app engine for all the server stuff
Dec 08 13:27:31  so id be using the standard google login
Dec 08 13:27:59  when a user logs in for the first time id ask them for their unique code, which would be shown in my app on their android phone
Dec 08 13:28:24  so now whenever they enter a text to be sent, id mark it with the unique code and their email address
Dec 08 13:29:00  my android app will ask the server for any texts based on the unique code and the email address
Dec 08 13:29:22  do you think thats secure enough to prevent people from sending texts through someone elses phone?
Dec 08 13:29:43  its not secure but i doubt anyone will care about it
Dec 08 13:29:54  no, not secure at all
Dec 08 13:30:02  oh :(
Dec 08 13:30:27  id say it becomes an issue the more popular your app is.
Dec 08 13:31:12  my thinking was that since google handles the login stuff, you wouldnt be able to enter someone elses unique code and have their phone grab text messages that you enter
Dec 08 13:31:24  because it would only grab ones tagged with that code and their email address
Dec 08 13:31:58  i have no background in anything login based
Dec 08 13:32:19  so please make me feel stupid :)
Dec 08 13:34:10  what makes it not secure?
Dec 08 13:34:11  blau: security is alot of work. I think its ok for your app not to be secure. 99.999999999999999999999999% of sw isnt secure
Dec 08 13:34:32  maybe i should be asking if theirs any serious flaws in that way?
Dec 08 13:35:12  blau-MikeDG, eh, I dont know where to start. Alot of different issues there.
Dec 08 13:37:09  08:34:11 < gambler_> blau: security is alot of work. I think its ok for your app not to be secure. 99.999999999999999999999999% of sw isnt secure
Dec 08 13:37:17  gambler_: you sir, are a clown
Dec 08 13:38:25  hitman, lol whats up your ass
Dec 08 13:39:43  hello
Dec 08 13:40:57  gambler_, I think what he's trying to say is that throwing caution to the wind is perhaps not the right approach to security.
Dec 08 13:41:11  brocktice, let him answer for himself
Dec 08 13:41:27  hello
Dec 08 13:41:38  hello
Dec 08 13:42:15  gambler_: being smart is a lot of work. I think it's ok for you to be a bozo. 99.9999999999999% of people on IRC are bozos.
Dec 08 13:43:32  hitman: lol
Dec 08 13:44:38  mmmkay. overfocusing on security kills alot of interesting projects. Plus security is hard to get right.
Dec 08 13:44:55  You either shit or get off the pot. If your not fully comitted there is no point in doing a half assed job.
Dec 08 13:45:35  yeah but in something like what im attempting to do, theres a lot of issues with releasing it
Dec 08 13:45:43  hitman: you think your smarter than me? Ok how much are you willing to bet on it?
Dec 08 13:46:00  i think it's LLC time for me
Dec 08 13:46:03  im sure we could find some independent means of testing who is smarter.
Dec 08 13:46:07  guys, don't get into an argument, its fruitless.
Dec 08 13:46:13  blau-MikeDG, not a bad idea actually
Dec 08 13:46:15  kids get back to work ;)
Dec 08 13:46:20  But do try to protect your users.
Dec 08 13:46:44  As we've seen from the market most of them are just shy of invalids.
Dec 08 13:46:52  yeah
Dec 08 13:47:07  im surprised i havent had anyone yell at me for using their sms's with one of my apps
Dec 08 13:47:18  although i could guess that the billing period hasnt ended yet
Dec 08 13:47:30  have they asked you for a flash player?
Dec 08 13:47:41  dozens of times
Dec 08 13:48:07  So, you wanted something cool for when the app store goes for-pay.
Dec 08 13:48:11  Get on it. :p
Dec 08 13:48:43  Actually, an SIP client would be really really cool.
Dec 08 13:48:46  i feel that a flash player is retarded
Dec 08 13:48:49  whats a SIP client
Dec 08 13:48:50  But that's a pretty involved project.
Dec 08 13:48:55  voice-over-ip
Dec 08 13:49:02  ah
Dec 08 13:49:13  blau-MikeDG, Adobe's releasing  a flash player anyway.
Dec 08 13:50:32  i figure that
Dec 08 13:50:42  id rather work on something creative
Dec 08 13:50:50  than just turning the g1 into a computer
Dec 08 13:50:58  desktop
Dec 08 13:51:19  Makes sense.
Dec 08 13:51:29  Hey, here's one.
Dec 08 13:51:35  Driver training device. hear me out.
Dec 08 13:51:47  When I started driving, my dad would put his cell phone in the cup holder.
Dec 08 13:51:49  brocktice, google sc-android. ive got an updated tarball if you want it that Im not sure if its in SVN yet or not.
Dec 08 13:52:02  If it fell over, he said I was turning too hard etc.
Dec 08 13:52:36  So, make something where you set the phone down, and if it gets moved too hard in one direction, a ball gets knocked out of a shallow well or something and beeps.
Dec 08 13:53:16  gambler_, cool, checking the page, though it's loading very slowly
Dec 08 13:53:22  thats really cool
Dec 08 13:53:53  thanks
Dec 08 13:54:13  "Congratulations on your new java.net project! " I can see this is still getting up and running. :)
Dec 08 13:54:44  yeah i cant get to it either...its not my project but ive communicated alot with the author
Dec 08 13:54:56  blau-MikeDG, It's basically a 2-d airbag sensor.
Dec 08 13:55:06  with lower thresholds for activaiton.
Dec 08 13:55:49  gambler_, If you've got a tarball I'd like to check it out.
Dec 08 13:55:52  Have you got it working?
Dec 08 13:56:04  i gotta do some research to see how the sensors react normally
Dec 08 13:56:22  blau-MikeDG, Do you have the api demos installed?
Dec 08 13:56:36  brock, yeah
Dec 08 13:56:49  ive played with the sensor demo
Dec 08 13:57:01  and even worked on a POC for a game using the sesnors
Dec 08 13:57:08  brocktice, ive got some of the bundles running under apache felix on android.
Dec 08 13:57:08  cool
Dec 08 13:57:18  atm im focusing on other stuff
Dec 08 13:57:27  gambler_, ah ok
Dec 08 13:58:05  Is anyone working on google earth for android?
Dec 08 13:58:27  Don't they have it on iPhone already?
Dec 08 13:59:18  answered my own question -- yes it's on iphone
Dec 08 13:59:53  but google did it right?
Dec 08 14:00:01  I would assume so.
Dec 08 14:00:12  I'm reading here about a doom port as well.
Dec 08 14:00:34  and I see a quake demo
Dec 08 14:00:51  08:45:43 < gambler_> hitman: you think your smarter than me? Ok how much are you willing to bet on it?
Dec 08 14:00:55  CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
Dec 08 14:01:03  christ people
Dec 08 14:01:21  sure...I hope you have some money to bet.
Dec 08 14:01:36  that is the ultimate way of testing someones commitment to a belief.
Dec 08 14:01:48  ok!
Dec 08 14:01:59  guys
Dec 08 14:02:02  take it into pm
Dec 08 14:02:07  no seriously this is a nerd-off
Dec 08 14:02:14  no one wants to hear your nerdo-macho bullshit
Dec 08 14:02:17  oh ok
Dec 08 14:02:18  lolza this will be fun.
Dec 08 14:02:19  they're break-dance fighting!
Dec 08 14:02:34  ou want to play $25/$50 NL Hold em with me (Surely a person of greater intelligence can beat me)
Dec 08 14:02:35  this is like thriller but with computers
Dec 08 14:02:43  gambler_: any time
Dec 08 14:02:47  Actually, that would be worth watching.
Dec 08 14:02:55  no joke, where do you live
Dec 08 14:02:56  (nerd dance-offs)
Dec 08 14:03:30  oh wait, not thriller - beat it
Dec 08 14:04:03  go register an account at any Ipoker site.
Dec 08 14:04:22  I'll play you right now. First person to win 50K wins the challenge ok?]
Dec 08 14:04:36  relax noobs
Dec 08 14:04:40  I am not playing Ipoker
Dec 08 14:04:46  I will play irl
Dec 08 14:04:51  msg me if you really want
Dec 08 14:04:58  people are getting pissed
Dec 08 14:05:03  back to android chats
Dec 08 14:05:06  lets talk android
Dec 08 14:05:19  actually
Dec 08 14:05:20  I have a gripe
Dec 08 14:05:31  why oh why doesn't the android sdk work for PowerPC macs?
Dec 08 14:05:42  Not all of us can afford a x86 mac you know :(
Dec 08 14:05:47  Foxdie, PowerPC is obselete, duh.
Dec 08 14:05:54  by a pc?
Dec 08 14:06:02  use virtual pc for mac?
Dec 08 14:06:04  buy
Dec 08 14:06:16  (for what it's worth, I had an issue with them calling it obselete)
Dec 08 14:06:19  in the docs
Dec 08 14:06:20  brocktice, indeed it is, however, my boss won't get me a new one, nor can I afford one myself
Dec 08 14:06:34  so that was a bit tongue in cheek
Dec 08 14:06:36  ok coward well if you go grab some balls, Im sitting at table $10/$20 NL table Skiller screenName: UlteriorMotive
Dec 08 14:06:41  come any time
Dec 08 14:06:48  Foxdie: sell your boss on an Android port of whatever it is you do for a living ;)
Dec 08 14:06:50  blau-MikeDG, I have a PC, I barely turn it on, I use my mac for most things, and my PC for gaming only :P
Dec 08 14:07:09  djc, hehe I wish, we're a web development company
Dec 08 14:07:09  well you can use it for gaming and androiding
Dec 08 14:07:13  and they all have iphones :(
Dec 08 14:07:24  (another thing he refused to get me, a company phone, and I'm the IT manager ffs)
Dec 08 14:07:29  Foxdie: so use your pc, beggers can't be choosers
Dec 08 14:07:39  true, but my pc is at home mike
Dec 08 14:08:06  buy a netbook
Dec 08 14:08:15  I'm at work right now, and would prefer to be doing something android'y instead of changing peoples email passwords :/
Dec 08 14:08:18  although eclipse on a 1024x600 might make you commit suicide
Dec 08 14:08:26  yeah I've thought about that
Dec 08 14:08:40  still, money problem, will have to save for a couple of months
Dec 08 14:08:52  but that taken into consideration, it sucks that there's no SDK for powerpc
Dec 08 14:09:01  there's still a load of people out there with a G5 for example
Dec 08 14:09:07  code at work, and then compile at hom
Dec 08 14:09:19  hey yakischloba
Dec 08 14:09:20  or ssh
Dec 08 14:09:45  morning gambler_, how goes it
Dec 08 14:10:17  Im on tilt because this broke joke in the channel challenged me to play poker with him but he wants to play 'in real life' now instead
Dec 08 14:10:54  ruh roh
Dec 08 14:10:54  hitman, are you gonna grow some F ing balls and make a deposit or what.
Dec 08 14:11:04  you said you wanted to play poker
Dec 08 14:11:12  I offered you the chance
Dec 08 14:11:17  guys, please
Dec 08 14:11:19  you made it over complicated
Dec 08 14:11:26  I coincidentally watched some poker movie last night
Dec 08 14:11:28  lets do it
Dec 08 14:11:38  IRL=overcomplicated. we can play right now on the INTERNETS
Dec 08 14:11:47  that is not real
Dec 08 14:12:15  lunch has indeed quit *burps*
Dec 08 14:12:53  ok guys play poker here
Dec 08 14:13:31  so much for android discussion.
Dec 08 14:13:33  gambler you have 2 kings, hitman you have 2 aces
Dec 08 14:13:41  fold
Dec 08 14:13:45  bullets never win
Dec 08 14:13:52  next hand
Dec 08 14:14:04  still...
Dec 08 14:14:16  gambler, you have 4c9h,   hitman, you have 8c8d
Dec 08 14:14:51  yay and im even getting disco
Dec 08 14:15:01  the poker table caught on fire, you both burn up
Dec 08 14:15:02  sorry
Dec 08 14:15:13  lol@blau-MikeDG
Dec 08 14:15:16  'ed. tiltiest day ever. ty hitman u donkey
Dec 08 14:15:19  better luck next life ;)
Dec 08 14:15:34  ugh, just stop the fucking trolling
Dec 08 14:16:07  its really annoying
Dec 08 14:17:32  google app engine is my new fav toy
Dec 08 14:18:09  im done. whatever
Dec 08 14:18:39  blau-MikeDG, Also, a shopping list program that has categories within an list, and where you can reorder items would be nice.
Dec 08 14:18:54  There are several list programs but they can't do those things, and it makes grocery lists difficult.
Dec 08 14:19:01  okay, serious android question here, how do I start using adt on a mac?
Dec 08 14:19:17  *adb
Dec 08 14:19:28  brock: got any suggestion on the best way to reorder stuff?
Dec 08 14:19:30  connection via usb? any drivers need to be installed?
Dec 08 14:19:39  i havent seen aything i love on tiny touch screens
Dec 08 14:19:48  blau-MikeDG, Ideally dragging like with AJAX, but I don't know whether that's supported
Dec 08 14:20:02  Maybe 'move' option from a long press, then show up and down arrows?
Dec 08 14:20:28  The RAZR2 has a way of reordering things that works well.
Dec 08 14:20:37  just dragging kills the expected scrolling option
Dec 08 14:20:42  Menu->reorder->select item with arrows->grab
Dec 08 14:20:47  then move with arrows
Dec 08 14:20:52  then 'Place'
Dec 08 14:21:01  from the menu I guess
Dec 08 14:21:03  that seems to complicated
Dec 08 14:21:11 * brocktice shrugs
Dec 08 14:21:20  ive been thinking about that kinda stuff for a while
Dec 08 14:21:21  sigh
Dec 08 14:21:55  It seems like a toolkit oversight actually
Dec 08 14:24:18  anyone built sshd for android yet btw?
Dec 08 14:24:32  Foxdie, I believe I read that someone had a while ago
Dec 08 14:24:50  i have seen something similar
Dec 08 14:24:53  cool, I'll check xda dev forum then I guess
Dec 08 14:25:01  Foxdie: look for dropbear
Dec 08 14:25:02  Hopefully someone's compiled dropbear
Dec 08 14:25:13  ooh
Dec 08 14:25:14  there is a patch somewhere out there
Dec 08 14:25:16  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442754
Dec 08 14:25:23  but i dont remember where
Dec 08 14:25:31  so, if native binaries can be run, can one make a java wrapper and call them?
Dec 08 14:25:36  Is it possible to include them in an APK?
Dec 08 14:26:02  ooh that'd be cool
Dec 08 14:26:08  I realize that some need root privs
Dec 08 14:26:14  But there are certainly useful things that don't
Dec 08 14:26:17  Like pwgen
Dec 08 14:26:17  yes it is possible.
Dec 08 14:26:30  swetland, That's what youtube etc do isn't it?
Dec 08 14:26:52  youtube doesn't use any app-specific native libraries
Dec 08 14:26:57  oh
Dec 08 14:27:22  I think the only app we've built that used one was the quake demo (since it was mostly native)
Dec 08 14:27:32  swetland, Can one get that somewhere?
Dec 08 14:27:37  I was looking earlier.
Dec 08 14:28:11  but there is a provision for bundling a .so in an apk, and there is work on docs/tools/etc to show how to do this "right" (in a way least likely to break with later revs of the system, etc)
Dec 08 14:28:20  oh, cool
Dec 08 14:29:08  swetland: i'll look into mtd vs mtdblock. my initial thought was that if the mtdblock3 partition is exactly as big as the mtd3ro dump, it's an exact copy. so i wouldn't know where bad blocks would be assigned to if it's not within the address range of mtdblock3, which apparently is equal to that of mtd3|mtd3ro. i'll have to look at how yaffs2 handles that
Dec 08 14:29:45  if you are just doing straight reads from userspace (dd, etc), you will get errors if you hit a bad block, and you will not backup the extradata
Dec 08 14:30:08  so you'll probably have to write a little program to create a valid backup image
Dec 08 14:30:50  fyi, system.img which is flashed by fastboot is 2048+64 bytes per page, the first 16 bytes of the +64 are used for the extra data
Dec 08 14:31:03  aha.
Dec 08 14:32:07  the boot/recovery images don't care about the extra data.  both boot images and system images skip *entire* bad blocks (64 pages) if there's a problem
Dec 08 14:32:39  well then with dd i'll be reading the bad blocks as well, so i can't write that back with flashboot
Dec 08 14:32:49  the program that is used to reflash recovery is a good example of using the mtd ioctls
Dec 08 14:33:50  dd will (I'm pretty sure) fail when it hits the first bad block (unless maybe it has some flag to keep going in that case).  you don't want to ever keep or try to write back bad blocks. they should always be ignored/skipped (both when reading and writing)
Dec 08 14:35:09  well in my case i only care about the reading part. i'll explore it but need to do some paid first ;)
Dec 08 14:35:12  thanks
Dec 08 14:37:15  *paid work
Dec 08 14:37:18  heh
Dec 08 14:37:27  if you don't know which blocks are bad when reading (and discard them), you're likely to end up with something that will not actually be a valid filesystem when you try to write it back
Dec 08 14:38:08  also there may be some weirdness with blocks that have been erased but not all pages have been written
Dec 08 14:38:32  since an erased page is all 0xff's, it doesn't actually read back without error (since it doesn't have a valid crc)
Dec 08 14:38:41  why there is no read method in the fastboot spl is beyond me though :)
Dec 08 14:38:53  we never need to do that
Dec 08 14:39:30  Is there any chance UMA will ever be on the G1?
Dec 08 14:39:40  I mean, in one-off cases for investigating flash failures, might be interesting, but in general if I want to know what went on a device, I'll grab that build off the build server
Dec 08 14:49:13  sshd was me, i'll find the link
Dec 08 14:50:14  here it is. http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/2
Dec 08 14:51:47  If you wanna sshd on android, visit to http://www.kandroid.org/board/board.php?board=AndroidApp&command=body&no=71 website.
Dec 08 14:52:32  ..wtf?
Dec 08 14:52:33  spam?
Dec 08 14:59:24  wow
Dec 08 14:59:25  lo
Dec 08 14:59:41  회원권한이 지정되어 있습니다. 로그인 하십시오.
Dec 08 15:14:17  hmm, if I remount /system as RW, and make changes naturally, do those keep after a reboot?
Dec 08 15:14:35  they even survive a factory reset
Dec 08 15:14:51  that makes me a very happy panda
Dec 08 15:16:30  Disconnect, checking your link now
Dec 08 15:16:47  oh, it was you that built dropbear for android? sweet dude :)
Dec 08 15:17:01  can you use tetherbot over bluetooth?
Dec 08 15:18:30  unix_lappy: nafaik
Dec 08 15:19:56  Disconnect, did you ever get it working though after compiling it?
Dec 08 15:20:03  people can't log in, it doesn't seem to be picking up users
Dec 08 15:20:14  I've tried creating /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow, added relevant data to it
Dec 08 15:20:25  it works fine with those patches. it doesn't use /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow.
Dec 08 15:20:32  dropbear still says "login attempt for nonexistent user"
Dec 08 15:20:38  ahh I'll read that page again closer
Dec 08 15:21:32  grrr, someone else  beat me to releasing an sms mms extractor
Dec 08 15:21:54  ahh, I can't cross compile
Dec 08 15:22:02  SDK doesn't work on powerpc :(
Dec 08 15:22:13  it uses the password you set in debug.h or it uses a key
Dec 08 15:22:25  (presumably keys but i only tested one)
Dec 08 15:27:18  do you have a prebuilt version?
Dec 08 15:29:05  yah with a hardcoded root password. still want it?
Dec 08 15:30:55  sounds like a deal to me.
Dec 08 15:31:26  well it'll have to wait a little while - work ..
Dec 08 15:33:53  hmm, no way to get it to read /etc/passwd ?
Dec 08 15:34:01  and okay, I understand
Dec 08 15:35:28  disconnect,  what do  you do for a living?
Dec 08 15:36:05  head (only) sysadmin at a .com
Dec 08 15:36:34  40 or so employees, something like 20 million users.
Dec 08 15:36:40  and free lunch :)
Dec 08 15:36:45  busy busy
Dec 08 15:36:48  google.com!
Dec 08 15:36:53  yep
Dec 08 15:36:54  and nope
Dec 08 15:37:06  blau-MikeDG, eh?
Dec 08 15:37:13  kidding lol
Dec 08 15:37:29  oh , I thought that was related to your mms extractor comment
Dec 08 15:37:30  sorry
Dec 08 15:37:41  oh, mms extractor is MyBackup
Dec 08 15:37:53  its slow as hell though for extracting sms
Dec 08 15:38:04  i can't wait for the dg office suite
Dec 08 15:38:51  wonder how many sms broadcast receivers i can have before performance takes a nosedive when i get a sms
Dec 08 15:39:09  the sms extractor i tried listed the correct #s and wrong contacts for most of my sms's. not as useful as it could be.
Dec 08 15:39:54  i dont get how you can wind up with the wrong contact names
Dec 08 15:40:12  theres a table that give syou the name, no effort required
Dec 08 15:40:18  disc: was it txtractor?
Dec 08 15:40:25  txtract i mean
Dec 08 15:41:03  think so
Dec 08 15:41:13  export to csv
Dec 08 15:43:24  free lunch?!
Dec 08 15:43:28  hello, is there any information on creating themes for the window manager in the sdk?
Dec 08 15:44:05  I only get a free lunch when me and my boss are out-and-about, which is very rare
Dec 08 15:44:12  3x a week. today its umm the indian place i think
Dec 08 15:44:21  which is nice, haven't had it for a few weeks
Dec 08 15:44:26  indian cuisine <3
Dec 08 15:44:47  if you can, try Alu Saag
Dec 08 15:44:57  really nice potato and spinach dish
Dec 08 15:45:26  and i made it to ars, kinda. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081207-google-introduces-developer-g1-phones.html (they list the thread as the primary location, because of the original content. he basically made a bunch of shit up and then posted the zip and image off my site :( ..)
Dec 08 15:46:01  you know what to do... >:)
Dec 08 15:46:10  referrer check, serve bogus content ;)
Dec 08 15:46:24  he dl'd and attached, its worse. :/
Dec 08 15:46:43  yes, the zip needed mirrors. no, it didn't need some doofus saying "hey look here's original content and its straight off a dev phone and and and..."
Dec 08 15:47:30  hmm, if you're after mirrors for files, I"ve got a dedicated server in the UK, I don't mind sharing some bandwidth
Dec 08 15:47:44  nah thats not it either. i just meant it needed a mirror in general, just in case :)
Dec 08 15:47:46  http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/07/video-of-chinas-android-running-qigi-i6-in-action-unearthed/
Dec 08 15:48:04  if it really comes down to it we've got a monster pipe at the datacenter i can use. or just set myself up a vm host. (in fact.. i'll tag my boss about that today i think.)
Dec 08 15:49:27  ahh okay, offer still stands though ;)
Dec 08 15:50:42   kewl
Dec 08 15:53:35  Disconnect: Just write to the editors or ars, let them know the real deal. They are a "respectable" site... and will do an "[Editor's update]" if there are some facts that need correcting in the article.
Dec 08 15:54:01  hmm. cool.
Dec 08 15:54:41  Disconnect: How big is your site?
Dec 08 15:55:01  or how much data would it need for bakups?
Dec 08 15:55:53  IE: I can offer you some disk space to backup your site.. (on a server, in a datacenter)
Dec 08 15:56:30  its not too big. i'll just slap a vm together for it after work.
Dec 08 15:56:52  Ok.. cool... sounds like you have it under control...
Dec 08 15:57:43  disc...
Dec 08 16:02:45  lynn
Dec 08 16:03:15  hello gfindster50
Dec 08 16:03:47  cool you are using my app....great
Dec 08 16:03:54  yup
Dec 08 16:04:17  ../
Dec 08 16:04:27  do u know how to use it
Dec 08 16:04:35  nop
Dec 08 16:05:02  Foxdie: One work: "Hackintosh".
Dec 08 16:05:14  well please go to the link, it has some details
Dec 08 16:05:20  on how to use it
Dec 08 16:05:32  who are you?
Dec 08 16:05:37  Why are dev devices not in the topic?
Dec 08 16:05:50  i  am the author
Dec 08 16:06:11  bgupta, oh I'm aware of what that is
Dec 08 16:06:30  however, the only computer I have / use is my powerbook, I use it for everything
Dec 08 16:06:41  hello?
Dec 08 16:06:42  I have a desktop pc at home, but rarely turn it on
Dec 08 16:06:54  u can try unchecking the location chat in preferences
Dec 08 16:07:03  hello 54
Dec 08 16:07:38  gfindster_de: this channel is for Android developers, not end users.
Dec 08 16:07:54  gfindster_de: please update your software to not send users here.
Dec 08 16:07:59  sorry
Dec 08 16:08:10  i thought this was for users
Dec 08 16:08:20  hello
Dec 08 16:08:29  hello
Dec 08 16:08:30  who is it for than
Dec 08 16:08:42  yo
Dec 08 16:08:49  where r all u ppl
Dec 08 16:08:55  anyone in georgia
Dec 08 16:09:03  how do you start a private chat with someone
Dec 08 16:09:03  il
Dec 08 16:09:13  heyy guys
Dec 08 16:09:13  new port richey fl
Dec 08 16:09:14  ugh
Dec 08 16:09:26 * jbq_ sighs
Dec 08 16:09:38  I guess this is just the beginning :|
Dec 08 16:09:52  i thought this shit found ppl close to u
Dec 08 16:10:03  what the hell
Dec 08 16:10:03  wassup G1 buddy
Dec 08 16:10:16  why does this show ppl in georgia
Dec 08 16:10:20  i know right
Dec 08 16:10:22  oh my ... did someone just.. no.. it can't be..
Dec 08 16:10:32  tauno: sadly, yes.
Dec 08 16:10:36 * morrildl is working on it
Dec 08 16:10:41  lol
Dec 08 16:10:43  hahaha
Dec 08 16:10:44  who tha fucks in oregon ne one
Dec 08 16:10:47  it does u just wait new app new phone
Dec 08 16:10:49  is anyone here from sac?
Dec 08 16:10:49  this program is weird ass shit
Dec 08 16:11:01  nice! anyone in Rhode Island.
Dec 08 16:11:02  oh no
Dec 08 16:11:05  ugh, qigi, resistive screen, pure ick.
Dec 08 16:11:32  so where is the map it just says google at bottom
Dec 08 16:11:42  thank god
Dec 08 16:11:43  Does the map shpw up for anyone?
Dec 08 16:11:49  cali in the house
Dec 08 16:11:51  #android-null is for users
Dec 08 16:11:52  morrildl: thanks :)
Dec 08 16:11:57  that doe snot clear them all but it's a start..
Dec 08 16:12:02  anyone in philly
Dec 08 16:12:03  no
Dec 08 16:12:10  not a google map
Dec 08 16:12:16  I want to wrap my hands around someone's neck.
Dec 08 16:12:21  anyone know if you can ban by status string?
Dec 08 16:12:26  atl ga
Dec 08 16:12:29  the map does not show
Dec 08 16:12:37 * brocktice headdesks
Dec 08 16:12:43  morrildl: what do you mean by "Status string"?
Dec 08 16:12:52  ok this is totally not a test-your-app-here channel but thanks a lot for fucking us all over gfindster_de
Dec 08 16:12:57  how do u pull up the map
Dec 08 16:13:02  it does fuckin wait
Dec 08 16:13:07  djc: ban anyone with status string with a particular prefix
Dec 08 16:13:11  temporarily ban tmodns?
Dec 08 16:13:14  I can't resist.. it's just.. http://www.facepalm.org/
Dec 08 16:13:21  yah or *!info@*
Dec 08 16:13:22  brocktice: I am definitely leaning that way
Dec 08 16:13:31  there will be some collateral damage, but...
Dec 08 16:13:32  weak
Dec 08 16:13:32  just take info@*.tmodns.net
Dec 08 16:13:39  djc: ahh, good one
Dec 08 16:13:42  info@* cover wifi too
Dec 08 16:13:55  anyone from dallas
Dec 08 16:13:57  Sorry anyone who might be about to get nailed by this
Dec 08 16:14:07  I'm not on via the G1 right now...
Dec 08 16:14:09  Disconnect: better than this crap
Dec 08 16:14:13  weak
Dec 08 16:14:14  and when I was earlier it was via wifi
Dec 08 16:14:17  hello?
Dec 08 16:14:26  whois jayp
Dec 08 16:14:29  oops
Dec 08 16:14:32  morrildl: maybe a /kick would be in order too
Dec 08 16:14:46  djc: yeah not sure why the ban didn't kick too, but...
Dec 08 16:14:54  it never does, I think, by default
Dec 08 16:14:55  (didn't work it seems?)
Dec 08 16:15:11  Is this application linked to a pre-existing irc room?
Dec 08 16:15:18  humpdy dumpty sat on a wall
Dec 08 16:15:40  looks like the ban isn't working?
Dec 08 16:15:47 * jbq_ feels murderous
Dec 08 16:15:53  So how exactly is that app sending people here?
Dec 08 16:16:05  probably the default channel on connection or something
Dec 08 16:16:09  there goes our record breaking user numbers
Dec 08 16:16:15  Yes.
Dec 08 16:16:17  apparently it's some kind of "social network" crap
Dec 08 16:16:30  it does logging or what?
Dec 08 16:16:36  marix: I'd prefer record breaking signal/noise
Dec 08 16:16:36  Its a bit fubar.
Dec 08 16:16:38  There's a social network already. It's called the real world. :p
Dec 08 16:16:39  Raj: yes, it connects to #android, which is a developers' channel
Dec 08 16:16:57  on freenode, which is a developers' network.
Dec 08 16:17:15  whats up new here anybody on
Dec 08 16:17:28  Ah I see, Ill leave you developers alone then.
Dec 08 16:17:35  now, Google, where is your kill switch now? (speaking of killing Market apps) ;)
Dec 08 16:17:37  Raj: thanks :)
Dec 08 16:17:41  Raj: you seem to know what's going on, so I am not going to kickban you :)
Dec 08 16:17:53  Raj: feel free to stick around or join us on a regular IRC client if you like :)
Dec 08 16:18:01  I'm going to check this app out and see how this is working, brb
Dec 08 16:18:06  please don't ban me when I come in.
Dec 08 16:18:14  brocktice: hopefully you won't be able to
Dec 08 16:18:19  I set up a pattern ban that should keep you out
Dec 08 16:18:23  we'll see
Dec 08 16:18:28  morrildl,  i'm connected via mibbit,  will that be a problem?
Dec 08 16:18:34  marix: not at all
Dec 08 16:18:42  morrildl: doesn't work "17:17 -!- dayib [n=info@m4e5336d0.tmodns.net] has joined #android"
Dec 08 16:18:51  hmm
Dec 08 16:18:58  yo yo what's up!!!
Dec 08 16:19:04 * morrildl sighs
Dec 08 16:19:06  oh_my_god
Dec 08 16:19:12  wtf
Dec 08 16:19:40  hahahaha its time to revoke a developer certificate :)
Dec 08 16:19:40  where is the map?
Dec 08 16:20:08  anyone have any idea where I can find docs on what a "proper host mask" is?
Dec 08 16:20:10  any info on how to make custom themes for the window manager?
Dec 08 16:20:33  let's try this again :)
Dec 08 16:20:41  haha, what app is bringing all these people in here?
Dec 08 16:20:48  morrildl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostmask
Dec 08 16:20:51  ..swinging the killswitch hammer would solve the issue at hand? :)
Dec 08 16:20:52  gfindster
Dec 08 16:20:53  its the milkshake app
Dec 08 16:20:58  it brings all teh bots in the yard
Dec 08 16:21:01  zhobbs: GFindster, I think
Dec 08 16:21:40  when we press side keys for the volume, does it also make respective changes in volume for call and music?
Dec 08 16:21:49  no
Dec 08 16:21:52  (I just wanna see it in action.. not that I think it's needed at the moment :) )
Dec 08 16:21:57  at least not with the apps ive used
Dec 08 16:22:03  i goto the bathroom to play games
Dec 08 16:22:21  and of course even though the phone is on silent it still makes noise when i get into a game
Dec 08 16:22:25  somehow I can't get into the chat at all
Dec 08 16:22:29  haven't been able to this whole time
Dec 08 16:22:30  doh, GFinderster crashes when I launch it :)
Dec 08 16:22:30  dd94300 multimedia playback has its own volume slider
Dec 08 16:22:33  Yet all of these people do
Dec 08 16:22:53  hey everyone
Dec 08 16:22:59  it will tell you which volume it is increasing
Dec 08 16:23:01  i guess it also true for the voice calls
Dec 08 16:24:45 * unix_lappy remembers when there less than 75 people in here on any given day.
Dec 08 16:24:56  unix_lappy: back in the good old days?
Dec 08 16:25:08  maybe it's working now?
Dec 08 16:25:09  Yeah it's supposed to have some kind of location-based chat.
Dec 08 16:25:16  But it's very confusing.
Dec 08 16:25:24  gfindster_de: so, yeah, please don't do that.
Dec 08 16:25:46  morrildl: jayp got in here, so no, doesn't appear to be working
Dec 08 16:25:57  djc: yeah but he was one of the first
Dec 08 16:26:00  I wonder if I can't get in because I'm on wifi?
Dec 08 16:26:01  is he back?
Dec 08 16:26:07  yeah, he just returned
Dec 08 16:26:10  hmm
Dec 08 16:26:12  17:25 -!- SomeDudeOnlineDo [n=info@m435336d0.tmodns.net] has joined #android
Dec 08 16:26:12  17:25 <@morrildl> djc: yeah but he was one of the first
Dec 08 16:26:18  and right before that jayp
Dec 08 16:26:20  so...
Dec 08 16:26:22  djc: I just tried GFindster and it wouldn't connect for me
Dec 08 16:26:23  why am I not seeing enters and exits?
Dec 08 16:26:40  Perhaps ban *.tmodns.net
Dec 08 16:27:00  morrildl: maybe you have some kind of client-side bans?
Dec 08 16:27:05  (just temporarily)
Dec 08 16:27:11  that doesn't look right
Dec 08 16:27:12  this app dosent work
Dec 08 16:27:12  djc maybe
Dec 08 16:27:14  tmodns is all g1 irc stuff
Dec 08 16:27:14  morrildl: check your /ignore.. you may have PARTS and JOINS ignored
Dec 08 16:27:17  yeah it's not
Dec 08 16:27:22  isnt it?
Dec 08 16:27:40  blau-MikeDG: well, all the T-Mobile IRC stuff
Dec 08 16:27:46  not all the G1, I think
Dec 08 16:27:52  tmobile
Dec 08 16:28:02  is anyone here from cali?
Dec 08 16:28:20  what is this app people are using to connect? :)
Dec 08 16:28:29  gfriendster
Dec 08 16:28:33  gfindster
Dec 08 16:28:40  err yea
Dec 08 16:28:59  its not an irc client i guess?
Dec 08 16:29:02  morrildl: you still don't have it :P
Dec 08 16:29:27  My IRC fu is not strong
Dec 08 16:29:40  now this one is quite easy to resolve since 99% of the G1 owners are using tmo right now and get a tmodns.net addr.. imagine if this would have happened in a time when the G1 would be available everywhere in the world.. from n+1 carriers, each with their own addr..
Dec 08 16:29:43  consult the mastas
Dec 08 16:30:30  tauno: yeah, someone needs to be on top of the killswitch
Dec 08 16:30:41  what is gfindster, friendster?
Dec 08 16:30:46  why is it using irc?
Dec 08 16:30:52  http://www.helloandroid.com/node/647
Dec 08 16:31:07  tauno: we don't want to ban any irc client on here, just the gfindster
Dec 08 16:31:27  anyone have any idea why my *!info@* ban isn't working?
Dec 08 16:31:33  work on a bot that bans anyone that looks like findster person?
Dec 08 16:31:36  oh wait
Dec 08 16:31:38  http://www.indiabolbol.com/contact/
Dec 08 16:31:43  heres teh dev contact info
Dec 08 16:31:52  "Users can can chat with other users"
Dec 08 16:31:56  can't really use the killswitch in this case I think :/ (if you use it now, then you also have to use it if some app takes over another channel or chatroom or whatever.. the case here is too weak I think :/ )
Dec 08 16:32:14  I think that might be it
Dec 08 16:32:23  morrildl: you now have to kick everyone there though
Dec 08 16:32:31  ban will keep from rejoining, kick will get them out, irrc
Dec 08 16:32:32  Hello, anyone here from sweden and gotten there hands on a HTC G1 ?
Dec 08 16:32:36  zhobbs, yes, that's what I'm talking about..
Dec 08 16:32:43  leave bad reviews on the market :)
Dec 08 16:33:08 * morrildl almost kicked ojg, good thing he checked whois first :)
Dec 08 16:33:13  morrildl: me too :)
Dec 08 16:33:24  thx SanMehat  :)
Dec 08 16:33:37  Hello, anyone here from... triggered my attention as well
Dec 08 16:33:37  well, that was entertaining
Dec 08 16:33:59  morrildl: you have a twisted sense of entertainment.
Dec 08 16:34:11  jbq_: sorry, I forgot the quotes of irony
Dec 08 16:34:16  Well, that was "entertaining"
Dec 08 16:34:17  Hopefully the youtube comment arena in the market will signal to people that the app is not worth downloading
Dec 08 16:34:20  Now, can we go back to discussing how to get root and what to do with it? ;-)
Dec 08 16:34:30  especially if none of the clients can get in here to use the functionality
Dec 08 16:34:45  jbq_: Sure! Here's one suggestion! http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/12/08/replacing-the-splash-screen-on-a-t-mobile-g1-dev-phone/ :)
Dec 08 16:35:22  SanMehat jbq_: this is a downside of the developer devices.
Dec 08 16:35:33  now we have no excuse for not documenting all this stuff :)
Dec 08 16:35:47  RyeBrye: very sadly, that's the one thing I was the most afraid of, because I fear that some users will damage their G1s by trying to do that.
Dec 08 16:36:07  jbq_: Oh, reflashing the bootloader or the splash screen?
Dec 08 16:36:22  Hey I'm working on an FAQ. Is there a way to see what infobot knows about?
Dec 08 16:36:27  going through the whole rooting process just to change the boot screen.
Dec 08 16:36:58  (Figuring we put FAQ answers in inforbot already)
Dec 08 16:37:00  well, by now most people who dont have root can't get it
Dec 08 16:37:09  now if everyone is awake and excited..  does anyone know what's up with TextViews and NL and CR chars? I get a strange symbol every time I wanna display a string containing a CR :(
Dec 08 16:37:11  true.
Dec 08 16:37:12  bgupta: wow, create a FAQ by harvesting actual FAQs?  novel.
Dec 08 16:37:18  well if we had selinux instead of user/group it would be easy enough to allow boot screen flashing without opening up the entire OS :)
Dec 08 16:37:28  Yes, lets get Hitachi in here
Dec 08 16:37:33  infobot: stats
Dec 08 16:37:34  Since Sat Dec  6 11:29:52 2008, there have been 52 modifications, 449 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 219 commands.  I have been awake for 2d 5h 7m 41s this session, and currently reference 115600 factoids.  I'm using about 29368 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 4786.51/305 child 0.03/0.01
Dec 08 16:37:46  bgupta: sure you want to do that? infobot is mostly full of crap. 1.1 million lines of it.
Dec 08 16:37:49  and have them explain how desktop metaphors designed by the NSA should be applied to embedded phone systems without much thought
Dec 08 16:37:51  brocktice is a moron
Dec 08 16:37:52  hahaha how does it count morons?
Dec 08 16:37:55  infobot: brocktice
Dec 08 16:38:02  hmm, nada
Dec 08 16:38:05  infobot: SanMehat
Dec 08 16:38:06  (..damn you and your root talk.. to android-root with you :P)
Dec 08 16:38:13  grrr
Dec 08 16:38:19  RyeBrye: huh?
Dec 08 16:38:24  hahahahaha
Dec 08 16:38:25  SanMehat: I think you have to tell it someoen is a moron
Dec 08 16:38:37  I tried telling it I was a moron and it didn't work
Dec 08 16:38:49  infobot: brocktice is a moron
Dec 08 16:38:50  okay, RyeBrye
Dec 08 16:38:51  infobot: brocktice is a moron.
Dec 08 16:38:52  ...but brocktice is already something else...
Dec 08 16:38:53  stats
Dec 08 16:38:59  eh?
Dec 08 16:38:59  infobot stats
Dec 08 16:38:59  Since Sat Dec  6 11:29:52 2008, there have been 53 modifications, 449 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 219 commands.  I have been awake for 2d 5h 9m 7s this session, and currently reference 115601 factoids.  I'm using about 29368 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 4790.7/306.47 child 0.03/0.01
Dec 08 16:39:07  Hm... you aren't a morn :(
Dec 08 16:39:08  infobot: brocktice?
Dec 08 16:39:08  anyone have experience with xmpp? android, and non google servers? trying to get a muc client working, and want to avoid reinventing the wheel
Dec 08 16:39:09  extra, extra, read all about it, brocktice is a moron
Dec 08 16:39:12  ha
Dec 08 16:39:16  infobot help moron
Dec 08 16:39:24  infobot: stats
Dec 08 16:39:24  infobot: SanMehat?
Dec 08 16:39:24  Since Sat Dec  6 11:29:52 2008, there have been 53 modifications, 450 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 220 commands.  I have been awake for 2d 5h 9m 32s this session, and currently reference 115601 factoids.  I'm using about 29368 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 4792.19/307.04 child 0.03/0.01
Dec 08 16:39:28  ok
Dec 08 16:39:30  i'm done
Dec 08 16:39:31  zero morons
Dec 08 16:39:33  and fyi infobot answers to /msg too
Dec 08 16:39:50 * morrildl just got AIM spam
Dec 08 16:39:54  what is it this morning?!
Dec 08 16:39:56  infobot: SanMehat is a guy who has ops on this channel. He did unspeakable things to get them.
Dec 08 16:39:57  okay, RyeBrye
Dec 08 16:40:51  the infobot has been around for years on a bunch of channels - the vast majority of what he knows has nothing to do with Android
Dec 08 16:41:05  morrildl: my first 15 minutes with the G1 i got 2 SMS spam...it happens.
Dec 08 16:41:07  ah.. ok..
Dec 08 16:41:11  infobot: itanium
Dec 08 16:41:12  i heard itanium is intels 64 bit processor, or vaporware
Dec 08 16:41:17  LOL
Dec 08 16:41:19  infobot jg
Dec 08 16:41:20  extra, extra, read all about it, jg is Jim Gettys, HP Labs or available in handy icon form: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/jgico.png, or has a leg up on the rest of us, or mostly healed.
Dec 08 16:41:26  oh god/ wheres my rum.
Dec 08 16:41:28  etc
Dec 08 16:41:33  now coming back to my question.. should I file a bug report about it or is this as designed? :)
Dec 08 16:41:43  hehe soz, didnt know if this channel had any awkward rules like many have =>
Dec 08 16:42:12  Just emailed brightstar to see what's up with track order
Dec 08 16:42:16  on the dev phones that is
Dec 08 16:42:24  So much for the infobot route..
Dec 08 16:43:14  infobot: itanium is also see: Itanic
Dec 08 16:43:16  xsdg: okay
Dec 08 16:43:30  how can I install that samples app, that shows all the api features?
Dec 08 16:43:31  you could probably get a database dump if you wanted one - the owner is an old-school embedded Linux dude - but you'd have to do a lot of filtering
Dec 08 16:43:36  Or, anyone with Smack experience on Android?
Dec 08 16:43:44  I just thought it was funny it said itanium was vaporware... that must have been in there for a long, long time
Dec 08 16:43:47  Phlogi, pull it from the emulator with adb then push it to the device
Dec 08 16:43:54  either that or it is referring to the stench vapors
Dec 08 16:43:55  infobot: factinfo itanium
Dec 08 16:43:56  itanium -- created by bleck  at Wed May  3 05:01:14 2000 (3141 days); last modified 39s ago  by xsdg!n=xsdg@SIPB-VM-99.MIT.EDU; it has been requested 3 times, last by RyeBrye, 2m 43s ago.
Dec 08 16:44:03  Ok there is #android, and #android-dev are there any other And. IRC channels that people know about?
Dec 08 16:44:28  Good thing that was requested 3 times
Dec 08 16:44:36  haha
Dec 08 16:44:37  infobot itanium
Dec 08 16:44:38  it has been said that itanium is intels 64 bit processor, or vaporware, or see: Itanic
Dec 08 16:44:50  infobot devphones
Dec 08 16:44:51  it has been said that devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2, or ...
Dec 08 16:45:46  lava curtain prices have dropped year after year thanks to new plasma technology.
Dec 08 16:47:35  infobot gfindster
Dec 08 16:47:36  it has been said that gfindster is an annoying Android application that sent users to #android, until they were banned.
Dec 08 16:47:59  ...
Dec 08 16:48:03 * Foxdie smirks
Dec 08 16:48:13  infobot: jbq
Dec 08 16:48:14  jbq is probably a figment of someone's deranged imagination
Dec 08 16:48:32  :)
Dec 08 16:48:40  brocktice: is it only there? I mean good idea but....
Dec 08 16:48:40  infobot SanMehat
Dec 08 16:48:41  from memory, sanmehat is a guy who has ops on this channel. He did unspeakable things to get them.
Dec 08 16:48:46  technically thats true
Dec 08 16:49:04  i question the technical prowess of these android sites that are all discussing the dev phone bootloader installs.
Dec 08 16:49:17  hmm my phone gets unusable slow when copying files with usb cable to the sd card
Dec 08 16:49:21  Phlogi, That's how I got it on my phone.
Dec 08 16:49:33  brocktice: do I get it updated like that?
Dec 08 16:49:38  unusable slow?
Dec 08 16:49:44  I guess if you build the whole stack from source it should be in there
Dec 08 16:49:46 * brocktice checks
Dec 08 16:49:47  Foxdie: yes it lags like hell
Dec 08 16:49:53  why don't you just eject the microSD card and put it in a card reader?
Dec 08 16:49:57  that way you still get to use the phone
Dec 08 16:49:59  just no downloads
Dec 08 16:50:05  Foxdie: because I can't find the cardreader :D
Dec 08 16:50:10  gg :)
Dec 08 16:50:45  what do you guys think of this infobot FAQ entry:
Dec 08 16:50:47  * What is infobot?
Dec 08 16:50:49  ** A: An IRC bot that collects alot of "interesting", and occasionally (rarely) useful information. Be aware, infobot sits on many IRC channels...
Dec 08 16:51:21  "alot" isn't a word
Dec 08 16:51:22  Phlogi, actually I don't see it in the android build
Dec 08 16:51:23  also worth noting that he (probably) publicly logs this channel
Dec 08 16:51:25  "a lot"
Dec 08 16:51:28  bgupta,  will this be in wiki format?
Dec 08 16:51:30  infobot: logs
Dec 08 16:51:31  All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Dec 08 16:51:44  yeah..
Dec 08 16:51:49   so this isn't logged? >:)
Dec 08 16:52:10  kk
Dec 08 16:52:16   no it isn't http://ibot.rikers.org/%23android/
Dec 08 16:55:09  hmm, question, how do I clear my notification bar?
Dec 08 16:55:32  pull it down, then hit the clear notifications button
Dec 08 16:55:40  hubar,  the button at the top that says clear notifications
Dec 08 16:55:46  regarding the dev phone "track order" page: We are looking into the issue but the track order button is supposed to work once the order ships.  Orders will ship within 3 business days of receipt of orders.
Dec 08 16:57:39  hubar, hold your finger down at the top of the LCD and pull downwards to the bottom
Dec 08 16:57:43  Some Google developers available except romain that could tell me how to identify missed calls? (broadcasts?)
Dec 08 16:57:49  that opens your notifications bar, then you get a button to clear it
Dec 08 16:57:57  Foxdie: hmm
Dec 08 16:58:04  then you do the opposite (drag from the bottom to the top) to "roll-up" the notifications list
Dec 08 16:58:36  good luck, I'm off home :)
Dec 08 17:00:07  damn, finally got it!
Dec 08 17:00:26  That is one unintuitive way to do things. :)
Dec 08 17:00:28  hubar,  you should check the owners manual
Dec 08 17:00:47  it's *very* intuitive... once you know it's there :-P
Dec 08 17:01:10  In addition it would be interesting if the dev phones shipping rate includes customs or not. (I have read different opinions on that topic)
Dec 08 17:01:27  according to goog they do, which is why it costs $250 to ship it to canadia
Dec 08 17:01:38  yes, they include customs
Dec 08 17:01:59  ah ok.
Dec 08 17:02:21  waz up
Dec 08 17:02:43  So it is pretty the same price that you pay for an imported G1 including customs/shipping/unlocking but much safer. :-)
Dec 08 17:02:49  quoting from help page on ordering side: "For Orders shipping outside the US, shipping pricing includes cost of shipping service and the applicable customs, duties, import and country specific other fees."
Dec 08 17:03:02  jbq_: thank you.
Dec 08 17:03:06  okay back
Dec 08 17:03:09  any additional carnage?
Dec 08 17:03:16  there would be no customs/duties/etc. to HK :-(
Dec 08 17:03:20  morrildl, I think badasses45 perhaps?
Dec 08 17:05:03  is there an easy way to disable gmail checking?  (better: a way to make a shortcut to toggle it).  during the day i want my phone to remind me of calendar events only (which it does by sms) and not make any sound when mail arrives
Dec 08 17:05:19  MFen: it's in setting, data synchronization.
Dec 08 17:05:36  MFen: don't think it disables checking, just the notification
Dec 08 17:05:43  actually, I guess you can do either
Dec 08 17:05:48  disabling the notification is enough for now
Dec 08 17:06:04  in the gmail app you can disable notification
Dec 08 17:06:13  beautiful.  so now.. is there a way to make a shortcut to that?
Dec 08 17:06:20  in the sync settings you can disable checking
Dec 08 17:06:25  to what?
Dec 08 17:06:40  disabling sync i guess
Dec 08 17:06:48  but either one
Dec 08 17:06:54  using anycut you can make a like to the sync settings
Dec 08 17:07:09  s/like/link/
Dec 08 17:07:09  zhobbs meant: using anycut you can make a link to the sync settings
Dec 08 17:07:10  i have anycut
Dec 08 17:07:20  This is gonna be where the FAQ is located: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 08 17:07:38  It's still a draft
Dec 08 17:08:02  it's not *that* daft
Dec 08 17:10:02  which item is the sync settings?
Dec 08 17:10:08  i'm looking at 'actions' in anycut
Dec 08 17:10:17  there's a SyncHistory and a Sync(Old)
Dec 08 17:10:35  two things called "Settings"
Dec 08 17:14:42  Anyone have the link handy to the Dev device back? (Adding to the faq)
Dec 08 17:15:36  nvm found it: http://android.brightstarcorp.com/images/placeholders/dev3.jpg
Dec 08 17:18:00  I like that back...I'd buy just the back
Dec 08 17:18:56  is that an applique or laser etching?
Dec 08 17:21:19  I would buy the single back cover as well :-)
Dec 08 17:30:31  Hi, is this channel the official chanell?
Dec 08 17:30:49  pretty much
Dec 08 17:31:02  unofficially at least
Dec 08 17:31:36  there are any x86 port?
Dec 08 17:32:28  it's not too difficult to get the VM to run on x86, just difficult to do anything useful with it
Dec 08 17:32:53  there is an android-porting mailing list
Dec 08 17:33:19  hm
Dec 08 17:33:31  i think android is pretty good for MIDs
Dec 08 17:33:45  yeah
Dec 08 17:33:47  MegafEee, I was told by someone from the android team that x86 support should be out this month
Dec 08 17:33:59  They've had it running on an Eee PC, which is what I want to put it on.
Dec 08 17:34:09  nice!  I hope that's true
Dec 08 17:34:14  yeah, thats my ideia
Dec 08 17:34:23  to run Android on my 701
Dec 08 17:34:28  Same here
Dec 08 17:34:36  Can't remember who it was that said taht.
Dec 08 17:34:37  that
Dec 08 17:34:58  imagine that, would be awsome
Dec 08 17:35:09  yeah I have ubuntu on it, but firefox really chugs
Dec 08 17:35:17  It would be a great Android machine though.
Dec 08 17:35:38  Minus the touchscreen
Dec 08 17:36:05  brocktice: you can get a touchcreen mod for about 200.
Dec 08 17:36:18  unix_lappy, As long as I can get around I don't need the touchscreen.
Dec 08 17:36:37  It's sort of a toy machine for me, not worth it to drop $200. I got it as a hand-me-down so my investment so far is $0.
Dec 08 17:36:43  brocktice: it's obviously going to be resistive though.
Dec 08 17:36:57  the TS is more like $100
Dec 08 17:37:36  hm
Dec 08 17:37:53  whats the name of android we browser?
Dec 08 17:37:56  web*
Dec 08 17:37:59  "browser"
Dec 08 17:38:02  browser
Dec 08 17:38:04  webkit
Dec 08 17:38:09  It identifieis itself as Safari
Dec 08 17:38:24  I am very impressed that android browser supports chinese from the get-go.
Dec 08 17:38:25  webkit engine
Dec 08 17:38:26  hm
Dec 08 17:38:27  i was told that was for compatibility
Dec 08 17:38:36  Yeah, it probably is
Dec 08 17:38:38  sites know about safari but not about webkit
Dec 08 17:38:39  so an x86 build is due out this month eh?
Dec 08 17:38:45  so saying its safari makes it work with stuff it wouldnt
Dec 08 17:38:45  that would be super imho.
Dec 08 17:38:55  android uses gtk, qt or what?
Dec 08 17:39:00  Lots of web developers are dumbasses and will give you stupid "You don't have a supported browser" BS if they don't recognize the user agent
Dec 08 17:39:06  android uses Android
Dec 08 17:39:13  android uses its own UI framework
Dec 08 17:39:18  nice
Dec 08 17:39:20  no GTK or QT
Dec 08 17:39:32  It's nice, and it's designed around a mobile device
Dec 08 17:39:52  i think thats would run pretty fast on Eee PC
Dec 08 17:40:17  wonder what 400mhz arm translates to in x86 atom.
Dec 08 17:40:35  unix_lappy: 2.5ghz if you still have to use the emulator :)
Dec 08 17:40:56  wonder if you'll be able to strap it onto a running x86 linux system, or if you're going to have to use the whole image
Dec 08 17:41:00  FWIW, note that Android's UI toolkit really isn't there yet as a generic replacement for Gtk or Qt.  No I18N text layout, no input methods, tons of missing widgets, etc...  I like it, but it's not really desktop software.
Dec 08 17:41:03  i dont know, arm is realy dast
Dec 08 17:41:20  fast*
Dec 08 17:41:31  for specific applications
Dec 08 17:42:15  would be nice if you could just install the android-libs on any linux distro and then run sessions that'll launch an android app
Dec 08 17:42:35  Yeah, the community could build that :/
Dec 08 17:42:45  Different ARM cores, just like with x86, and the MHz math is different.  But very (very) roughly, an ARM core is going to be somewhere between a bit (typical "business" logic) and a lot (SIMD stuff) slower per MHz than a modern x86 core.
Dec 08 17:44:02  brb
Dec 08 17:44:30  And of course real world ARM implementations are much more likely to be on slow memory busses (e.g. 133MHz, 32 bit) with nothing but a L1 cache, where a desktop CPU is typically using two 64 bit pipes on a 533 MHz bus.
Dec 08 17:48:33  btw, are other HTC's power adapter working on the G1 ?
Dec 08 17:48:50  Any USB power adapter should work.
Dec 08 17:49:13  ok!
Dec 08 17:49:20  thanks !
Dec 08 17:49:41  hey all
Dec 08 17:49:43  im back
Dec 08 17:49:51  i lost something>
Dec 08 17:49:53  ?
Dec 08 17:51:17  ill try to make a clone of Android UI here
Dec 08 17:51:27  How do you turn off the GPS/3g network device to save battery life?
Dec 08 17:53:07  Since the UART3 serial debugging is muxed with the headphone line, I imagine using one of these: http://store.androidcommunity.com/content/accessories/11-176--4401.htm and then taking the headphone line out and connecting the Tx / Rx to a serial -> USB adapter would work, right?
Dec 08 17:53:07  Settings -> Location -> Enable GPS satellites, Settings -> Wireless controls -> Airplane Mode
Dec 08 17:53:08  hubar: in the settings, accessible by pressing menu on the home screen
Dec 08 17:53:57  infobot logs
Dec 08 17:53:58  All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Dec 08 17:54:35  infobot: why not just include the URL for the channel that the person asked in?
Dec 08 17:54:36  why not?
Dec 08 17:54:42  lol
Dec 08 17:55:00  good point...
Dec 08 17:56:12  When using the camera via the IMAGE_CAPTURE intent the data returned from the activity result includes only a 129 x 256 version of the taken picture, what gives? Is there any way to get the full resolution without writing the camera previewing/shutter/jpeg code?
Dec 08 17:56:47  i reported it in the issue tracker: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1480
Dec 08 17:59:43  andyross: you mean any mini-A usb should work to both charge and connect?
Dec 08 18:00:27  unix_lappy: yeah, normal mini usb cables work fine
Dec 08 18:02:00 * unix_lappy needs to buy a extUSB to 3.5mm converter here pretty soon.
Dec 08 18:04:31  I want to get a converter that has slots for both usb and a 3.5" jack so I can charge and listen to music at the same time
Dec 08 18:05:14  unix_lappy: if you don't need charging this is really cheap, I got one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-3-5mm-Audio-Adapter-for-HTC-T-Mobile-XV6800-Verizon_W0QQitemZ260327334839QQihZ016QQcategoryZ20336QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262
Dec 08 18:06:36  http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/browse_thread/thread/cb7164a9dbf06b15/3f919ae9a8c17753 - someone should write a proof of concept app that records phone calls and uploads them to a public website and wait till people install it on their phones without realizing what the app does (I'm sure there will be hundreds of them).. the issue doesn't seem to bother anyone currently and I really don't want to wait for a real attacker to mak
Dec 08 18:08:27  go for it
Dec 08 18:08:55  zhobbs: yea, i'd rather buy instore though.
Dec 08 18:09:14  not sure if any bigbox retailers carry them at below 5 dollars though.
Dec 08 18:09:43  Is the Android market down? I can't seem to access it from my phone
Dec 08 18:10:16  uh, nopee
Dec 08 18:10:21  i get on it just fine
Dec 08 18:13:55  LunchStrikesBack: It is fine, I just got on like 5 minutes ago.
Dec 08 18:14:12  what about Androind on Motorola V3 Black?
Dec 08 18:14:27  impossible?
Dec 08 18:14:32  google it
Dec 08 18:14:34  MegafEee: go for it. let us know how it turns out.
Dec 08 18:14:45  i think is impossible...
Dec 08 18:14:49  i wouldn't expect it to be ground breaking
Dec 08 18:14:49  How can I play music off my G1 in my car stereo?
Dec 08 18:15:00  headphone adapter :)
Dec 08 18:15:06  hubar: extUSB->3.5mm->AUX Jack.
Dec 08 18:15:12  What unix_lappy said.
Dec 08 18:15:15  Works great for me
Dec 08 18:15:42  wish I had a AUX on my car stereo..
Dec 08 18:15:43  though, that's a convoluted setup compared to the iPhone.
Dec 08 18:16:04  which I'm still considering, for some reason.
Dec 08 18:16:17  considering getting an iPhone?
Dec 08 18:16:19  I'm currently using a Nokia N78 for this purpose - it acts as a FMS radio broadcaster and then I just tune my cars stereo to the right frequency..
Dec 08 18:16:27  unix_lappy: what is that "extUSB"?
Dec 08 18:16:39  its an adapter
Dec 08 18:16:47  hubar, HTC's special variant of the USB port (with audio)
Dec 08 18:16:56  extUSB blows
Dec 08 18:16:58  FM*
Dec 08 18:17:07  Does it use the USB port on G1?
Dec 08 18:17:14  it is the usb port
Dec 08 18:17:18  G1 has a extUSB port :)
Dec 08 18:17:23  I need to also charge the battery on that port...
Dec 08 18:17:26  with all that space in there, i'm surprised they couldnt make the extUSB audio flush with the Dream.
Dec 08 18:17:54  unix_lappy: i wouldn't get an iPhone.... i have one now and since getting my G1 haven't really touched it
Dec 08 18:18:31  michaelnovakjr: good for you.  there are quite a few people who disagree though.
Dec 08 18:18:41  how can I charge G1 and listen to music (off G1) at the same time?
Dec 08 18:18:54  hubar google for an adapter
Dec 08 18:19:05  they make adapters with audio port and usb port
Dec 08 18:19:55  hubar: via a laptop? :P
Dec 08 18:19:57  Since accessories are a topic atm, has anyone come across a dual battery charger (two batteries) for the G1 yet?
Dec 08 18:20:00  http://cgi.ebay.com/3-in-1-USB-11pin-Adapter-for-HTC-TOUCH-MOGUL-PPC6800_W0QQitemZ280284235988QQihZ018QQcategoryZ20336QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
Dec 08 18:20:06  Disconnect, I would go for it but I don't feel like paying $25 just to get attention to something that (only) I see as something that can be potentially a security risk :)
Dec 08 18:20:24  write it, there are prolly people who would post it.
Dec 08 18:20:53  I might post it.
Dec 08 18:21:15  Might as well get my $25 worth since I haven't written my own apps yet.
Dec 08 18:21:26  Will that get me banned from the market?
Dec 08 18:21:38  read the tos
Dec 08 18:21:39  probably
Dec 08 18:21:57  but i wouldn't download it :)
Dec 08 18:22:00  and could probably get the fbi's attention (I would think)
Dec 08 18:22:18  unless it describes that it does this in the description
Dec 08 18:22:19  certainly a possibility
Dec 08 18:22:19  yeah I suppose
Dec 08 18:22:28  is code floating around to copy?
Dec 08 18:22:29  you know what, I'd write it in the description
Dec 08 18:22:32  People would still download it.
Dec 08 18:22:34  i could cause some damage, people dig my shit
Dec 08 18:22:39  brocktice: were you the one doing the mail app with exchange support?
Dec 08 18:22:42  what is it?
Dec 08 18:22:44  blau-MikeDG: ?
Dec 08 18:22:46  im lost
Dec 08 18:22:50  JesusFreke: So I buy one of those 3-in-1 adapter, charger goes into 1 usb port, audio goes into one audio port?
Dec 08 18:23:00  don't think so - the app is not doing anything that is not included in the SDK.. and the app won't do anything that's not writeen in the description (but who read these.. I'm sure there are gazillions installing the app anyway without reading the description)
Dec 08 18:23:02  Except the people that are called wouldn't know, so it would only be legal for use in single-party states like LA.
Dec 08 18:23:14  hubar, as far as I can tell, yes. I ordered one for myself, but haven't got it in yet
Dec 08 18:23:16  unix_lappy, Yeah, though I don't have anything to do with the exchange support.
Dec 08 18:23:30  brocktice: you are on the UI end?  URL?
Dec 08 18:23:42  tauno_: I'm pretty sure it's illegal to make a calculator app that secretly records your phone calls...even if it's technically part of the sdk
Dec 08 18:23:43  how stable is it?
Dec 08 18:23:44  JesusFreke: cool! :)
Dec 08 18:23:47  unix_lappy, Mostly bugfixes.
Dec 08 18:23:59  More stable than the built-in client.
Dec 08 18:24:16  ahh, just figured it out
Dec 08 18:24:43  the downside of that is that someone might call up and make a huge order with a cc and get their number stolen, and whoever hosts the files would be responsible
Dec 08 18:25:01  yea, you'd have to be a moron to do something like that
Dec 08 18:25:33  anyone know of a good/secure password store application?
Dec 08 18:25:45  You could have it store to the SD card.
Dec 08 18:25:50  Not send it anywhere.
Dec 08 18:25:58  or any app that can store/export encrypted text
Dec 08 18:26:01  Then when the card fills up people will start looking for what happened.
Dec 08 18:26:14  And there in the app's folder is a nice  little note.
Dec 08 18:26:23  "We secretly recorded your phone calls, but they're right here."
Dec 08 18:26:39  exactly.. my point is that the OS allows anyone to write an app like that and it does not protect the dumbusers from it (by explicitly saying that this app will do this, warning warning warning!)
Dec 08 18:26:43  Still causes problems for the phone's owner if they're not in a single-party state.
Dec 08 18:26:45  brocktice: does it store mail to the SD Card?
Dec 08 18:26:50  tauno: neither does windows
Dec 08 18:26:53  so whats the big deal?
Dec 08 18:26:57  unix_lappy, no, it's all in the local sqlite store.
Dec 08 18:27:30  sooo .. why can't i connect here using my phone?
Dec 08 18:27:30  It's a fork of the built-in client. So far it hasn't diverged terribly far.
Dec 08 18:27:36  is the T-Mobile subnet banned?
Dec 08 18:27:37  ok, then there's no deal - and this is also not something illegal where I live.. so I could host the files and be just fine..
Dec 08 18:27:44  infobot: gfindster
Dec 08 18:27:44  gfindster is probably an annoying Android application that sent users to #android, until they were banned.
Dec 08 18:27:59  o_O
Dec 08 18:28:12  i was wondering what that app was
Dec 08 18:28:16  I knew that would come in handy.
Dec 08 18:28:22  DJTachyon, check the channel logs.
Dec 08 18:28:29  It was September in here.
Dec 08 18:28:37  infobot, logs
Dec 08 18:28:38  All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
Dec 08 18:29:07  damn today's logs aren't synced
Dec 08 18:29:11  Check tomorrow
Dec 08 18:29:24  hmm okay ..
Dec 08 18:29:48  Wasn't pretty.
Dec 08 18:30:12  how many people in the channel?
Dec 08 18:30:22  tauno_: Isn't the phone call recording limited to using the mic? i.e the thing really sucks unless you have the call on speakerphone?
Dec 08 18:30:25  Lots, but the real problem was what they were saying...
Dec 08 18:30:31  oh no
Dec 08 18:30:42  4chan language?
Dec 08 18:30:46  "hey sup im in cali where all the cali people?"
Dec 08 18:30:46  tauno_: I really WISH we had full access to the voice stream, I want to write a vocoder applicaiton to make myself sound like optimis prime on the phone
Dec 08 18:31:01  "How's this thing work? Wheres da map?" etc.
Dec 08 18:31:04  oh  ... Boost Mobile Language
Dec 08 18:31:14  Is that what that's called...
Dec 08 18:31:24  lol .. *shrug .. Ebonics?
Dec 08 18:31:28  Basically Android Market Comment Language
Dec 08 18:31:31  ahhh
Dec 08 18:31:36  *shakes head*
Dec 08 18:32:14  blau-MikeDG, to be precise - the big deal is that recording phone calls is possible but not recording key events. I don't want recording phone calls disabled.. I just want to raise the issue that a more serious security hole is wide open but key events can't be captured since it's a smaller security issue :)
Dec 08 18:32:15  so who's app is that?
Dec 08 18:32:28  the devil himself, I think
Dec 08 18:32:29  gfindster_de
Dec 08 18:33:08  RyeBrye, I also want it :).. I mean.. I REALLY want it :)
Dec 08 18:33:23  well... I double dog want it
Dec 08 18:33:46  man this channel is flooded with crap
Dec 08 18:34:08  but I guess we won't have it.. because that would enable VOIP apps and google and tmo agreed that they don't want that happen ;)
Dec 08 18:34:30  tauno_, did they?
Dec 08 18:34:34  What Google / Tmobile want is none of my concern
Dec 08 18:34:38  ..at least that's what someone from tmo said.. wait-- I'll get a link
Dec 08 18:34:48  Yeah, they said they worked hard to make sure it woudn't be possible
Dec 08 18:34:52  you can install from external sources so....
Dec 08 18:34:53  kind of a dumb quote
Dec 08 18:35:06  michaelnovakjr: yeah, things have changed in here a lot since the G1 came out...
Dec 08 18:35:10  yea
Dec 08 18:35:27  zhobbs: its unfortunate
Dec 08 18:35:33  Yeah, it's too bad people use this shit
Dec 08 18:35:38  hehe
Dec 08 18:35:39  sorry, I'll try to keep more on topic.
Dec 08 18:36:06  nah, I think it's ok for user chat in here...that's why #android-dev exists I guess
Dec 08 18:36:14  ahh
Dec 08 18:36:16  just not idiot chat
Dec 08 18:36:19  don't say that outload :)
Dec 08 18:36:23  loud*
Dec 08 18:36:25  #android-dev is very quiet
Dec 08 18:36:30  ssshhh
Dec 08 18:36:31  it gets said ever other day
Dec 08 18:36:34  damnit
Dec 08 18:37:01  more people are now joining that channel
Dec 08 18:37:20  oops
Dec 08 18:37:29  Yeah, I wrote a chat client that dumped people to #android-dev and put it on market as "AdultFriendChat"
Dec 08 18:37:33  hope nobody minds...
Dec 08 18:37:35  lol
Dec 08 18:37:39  RyeBrye, hahaha
Dec 08 18:38:24  lol
Dec 08 18:39:38  brocktice, "When I talked to Cole Brodman, the CTO of T-Mobile, after the event about what would stop something like Skype from designing a program that could run on the phone, negating the need for a massive voice plan, he said he had "worked with Google" to make sure Android couldn't run VOIP. "
Dec 08 18:39:43  http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/09/three-years-and.html
Dec 08 18:39:54  ah, sounds pretty clear
Dec 08 18:40:22  that sounds pretty fucked up
Dec 08 18:40:33  "dont let them get free calls, we need to milk them, disable that shit"
Dec 08 18:40:35  so no access to voice streams anytime soon I guess :(
Dec 08 18:40:49  tauno_: if you have root, anything is possible :)
Dec 08 18:40:55  Probably meant something like "to make sure that Android could be configured to not support VOIP".
Dec 08 18:40:57  anything they "designed" can be undesigned
Dec 08 18:41:06  somehow I doubt they'll be able to contain voip for long
Dec 08 18:41:09  tauno_: unless someone does it 'unofficially'
Dec 08 18:41:09  at least on rooted phones
Dec 08 18:41:13  hotspot@home would have been nice
Dec 08 18:41:22  yes, UMA not being on it
Dec 08 18:41:25  is really shitty
Dec 08 18:41:43  data-centric device that relies on a technology they haven't fully rolled out yet
Dec 08 18:41:50  I miss my curve for the UMA a bit
Dec 08 18:42:01  speaking of rooted, because the dev units are coming out is rooting the ota done? :[
Dec 08 18:42:13  ?
Dec 08 18:42:15  rooted phones don't count... real end users don't have rooted phones :)
Dec 08 18:42:25  tauno_, real end users don't concern me ;)
Dec 08 18:42:47  tauno_: soon gettign root might be just installing an app and sitting back :)
Dec 08 18:43:00  jbq, yes, but since the G1 is the mayor Android phone for the next n months, VOIP apps can't make their debut till some other Android phones get mass-market status
Dec 08 18:43:02  :(
Dec 08 18:43:09  Indeed
Dec 08 18:43:10  man andnav2 is gonna be cool
Dec 08 18:43:13  have you all donated?
Dec 08 18:43:29  ive been trying to help the dev find a cheap hosting solution for the US
Dec 08 18:43:32  DJTachyon, isn't there a ToS problem with the map data or something?
Dec 08 18:43:32  has he decided if it will be free?
Dec 08 18:43:37  I'll donate to an irc client
Dec 08 18:43:39  he isn't using google maps
Dec 08 18:43:42  that's about it at the moment
Dec 08 18:43:42  DJTachyon: i might be able to get you a deal
Dec 08 18:43:43  Ah ok
Dec 08 18:43:46  rev_otto: :)
Dec 08 18:43:47  Will andnav2 do turn-by-turn directions live?
Dec 08 18:43:48  he is using openstreetmaps
Dec 08 18:43:53  i'm finishing mine up
Dec 08 18:43:58  yeah ryebrye
Dec 08 18:44:11  and it is supposed to be all open and free if possible
Dec 08 18:44:19  and since it all takes time.. VOIP on android (and apps that use it) is at least a year off IMO..  (sure.. some quick hacks could be made sooner..)
Dec 08 18:44:22  the UI of andnav felt like it was trying to be too much a clone of all the crappy standalone GPS units
Dec 08 18:44:34  i have the beta of andnav2
Dec 08 18:44:58  Grand Central is fun to use on the G1
Dec 08 18:45:13  Strange... I can access the internet from my phone just fine but I can't get to the market
Dec 08 18:45:38  will the dev g1 phone be able to do 3g on att's network?
Dec 08 18:45:41  LunchStrikesBack: kill it off and restart it. (without root this requires rebooting. because android apps -never- get into a state where they need to be restarted......)
Dec 08 18:45:45  tethridge: nope
Dec 08 18:45:45  you guys should help and look into it .. http://www.andnav2.org
Dec 08 18:45:46  tethridge: no
Dec 08 18:45:47  its just a g1
Dec 08 18:46:07  bad link
Dec 08 18:46:07  the AndNav app will actualy upload GPS traces to andnav and he will auto-filter and upload to openstreemaps
Dec 08 18:46:16  allowing everybody to contribute to the database
Dec 08 18:46:30  Disconnect, done, took a few seconds. Now it's back up. thanks.
Dec 08 18:46:41  but he needs money to kickstart the US Routing Datacenter .. (mainly a root box with 32GB of RAM)
Dec 08 18:47:12  somebody send me money and 32gb of ram
Dec 08 18:47:31  I found Rackspace can do it
Dec 08 18:47:33  I'll promise you an app that finds slightly drunk and lonely coeds anywhere in the world
Dec 08 18:47:35  not sure the quote he got onit
Dec 08 18:47:47   rev_otto can you not troll
Dec 08 18:48:09  what's the difference between begging for money and trolling?
Dec 08 18:48:17  rev_otto: settle down
Dec 08 18:48:20  you're being annoying
Dec 08 18:48:30  yes, sir
Dec 08 18:48:38  thks
Dec 08 18:48:39  DJTachyon: plus hosting? what - around $4k for the box + bandwidth? (just a ballpark guess... haven't priced a server in 6 or 9 months)
Dec 08 18:48:48  wasn't talking to you @sshat
Dec 08 18:48:56  LOL
Dec 08 18:49:00  sigh..
Dec 08 18:49:00  bye rev_otto
Dec 08 18:49:08  yeah something like that .. he is asking for an initial goal of $1500 .. but i mean it has to do routing data for the whole US
Dec 08 18:49:21  so it has to have some pretty big balls
Dec 08 18:49:46  there must be some distributed blade system .. but i dont know what the most economical way is
Dec 08 18:50:14  the videos of people doing mapping parties of little villages in the UK is so cool
Dec 08 18:50:21  ..or, he can be reasonable and start with what he can afford, workign up to more hardware after it starts proving itself
Dec 08 18:50:24  what about doing it on a cloud computing type server?
Dec 08 18:51:11  wow, the donation amount has doubled in the last week
Dec 08 18:51:25  i think he might get his goal in 2 weeks
Dec 08 18:51:46  yeah well his app has come leaps and bounds in a matter of days
Dec 08 18:51:57  he is very devoted and seems to be quite talented
Dec 08 18:52:05  dark, tach :)
Dec 08 18:52:10  isn't is plusminus? doesn't he hang out in here?
Dec 08 18:52:14  SanMehat please check your /msg's
Dec 08 18:52:24  hey lang ;)
Dec 08 18:52:47  whoa languish havent seen you in a while
Dec 08 18:52:58  yeah, been busy w/life. sup man
Dec 08 18:53:16  Lots of nice new advancements int he last week
Dec 08 18:53:31  yes
Dec 08 18:54:01  that which does not ban you only makes you stronger
Dec 08 18:54:13  you guys are a bit twitchy
Dec 08 18:54:30  SanMehat: will you do the honors
Dec 08 18:54:34  calm down
Dec 08 18:54:39  open communities
Dec 08 18:54:41  languish, check this out: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 08 18:54:45  need multiple perspectives
Dec 08 18:54:54  I'll be quiet
Dec 08 18:55:17  dark, checking
Dec 08 18:55:27  Oh .. hah ShopSavvy actually convinced me to buy something
Dec 08 18:55:43  I didn't know it could find cheaper strap-ons
Dec 08 18:55:48  i was in home depot and scanned a space heater, and sure enough, cheapest price , and 5-star reviews
Dec 08 18:56:20  Dark nice.
Dec 08 18:56:30  I like ShopSavvy - checking reviews for stuff in the store really turns the table on the whole shopping experience.
Dec 08 18:56:46  Is this what it was like with that Gfriendster app?
Dec 08 18:56:47  CompareEverywhere is ok, but I prefer ShopSavvy
Dec 08 18:56:55  yeah
Dec 08 18:57:02  whats w/ all the moderation today,  did someone open up a rift to the trollnets?
Dec 08 18:57:20  marix: yeah that stupid app
Dec 08 18:57:20  I'm a big fan of the barcode scanner, figured out how to generate 2D barcodes.
Dec 08 18:57:40  brocktice .. yup i flooded the channel with my excitment last week with those
Dec 08 18:57:48  thank you SanMehat
Dec 08 18:57:53  DJTachyon, Ah, I'll spare everyone then.
Dec 08 18:57:53  brocktice: http://www.cafepress.com/djtachyonqr
Dec 08 18:58:01  michaelnovakjr: no prob.. sorry i was coding.. didn't see the craziness
Dec 08 18:58:06  Nice!
Dec 08 18:58:09  it happens :)
Dec 08 18:58:17  I was thinking of coding a vcard import app
Dec 08 18:58:25  Then you could just do a 2D barcode to the URL of your vcard file
Dec 08 18:58:28  dont need it
Dec 08 18:58:30  Voil?!
Dec 08 18:58:31  look
Dec 08 18:58:38  DJTachyon that's awesome
Dec 08 18:58:49  http://www.djtachyon.com/android/testqrcontact.png
Dec 08 18:58:56  scan that
Dec 08 18:59:14  You're my hero.
Dec 08 18:59:18  How'd you do that?
Dec 08 18:59:25  it is already supported
Dec 08 18:59:28  which app are you using to scan 2d barcodeS?
Dec 08 18:59:31  No, how'd you make it?
Dec 08 18:59:32  http://www.qrstuff.com i think
Dec 08 18:59:34  barcode scanner
Dec 08 18:59:40  binary blob?
Dec 08 18:59:46  Oh I see
Dec 08 18:59:46  didn't realize it did 2d's
Dec 08 18:59:48  it has a format
Dec 08 18:59:51  why does it keep taking me to 4chan
Dec 08 19:00:00  QR Codes they are called
Dec 08 19:00:07  OK, then maybe I'll make an app that displays my contact info as a QR code.
Dec 08 19:00:08  they are huge in japan ;)
Dec 08 19:00:11  Or an arbitrary contact.
Dec 08 19:00:20  then you just load it and let someone else scan your screen.
Dec 08 19:00:58  there's one hidden on the face of every iphone
Dec 08 19:01:13  tach, I scanned the qr code off the cafepress hoodie image
Dec 08 19:01:15  works :)
Dec 08 19:01:16  BobDobbs, what?
Dec 08 19:01:23  and cool
Dec 08 19:01:30  hehe :)
Dec 08 19:01:34  awesome
Dec 08 19:02:08  lol
Dec 08 19:02:11  yes there is
Dec 08 19:02:13  http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1054285.html
Dec 08 19:02:19  i was thinking of printing a clear label in putting it on the hidden part of my slide out
Dec 08 19:02:25  there's almost one in every new cell phone now
Dec 08 19:02:29  on the front
Dec 08 19:02:33  d;)
Dec 08 19:02:54  first one I ever used was on a Metal Gear Solid 3 import soundtrack
Dec 08 19:02:55  wow
Dec 08 19:03:06  if you scanned it, it gave you access to extra camo patterns
Dec 08 19:03:24  d=\
Dec 08 19:03:27  hehe
Dec 08 19:04:09  anyone ever think of writing a new android distro?>
Dec 08 19:04:18  i have been for the past 3 months
Dec 08 19:04:24  does anyone remember teh quecat barcode scanner for your computer?  radio shack used to give them out
Dec 08 19:04:27  making it a fully featured linux distro
Dec 08 19:04:31  yes
Dec 08 19:04:34  i remember those
Dec 08 19:04:36  marix, yes
Dec 08 19:04:38  they woulda been big
Dec 08 19:04:38  Ubuntoid?  Adruse?
Dec 08 19:04:40  i had like 20 of them
Dec 08 19:04:41  Linux supports them
Dec 08 19:04:42  if they had a wifi card
Dec 08 19:04:47  and a embedded cpu
Dec 08 19:04:55  that was faster then 300mhz
Dec 08 19:05:02  beagleboards
Dec 08 19:05:04  they were awesome
Dec 08 19:05:10  you could only daisy chain 14 before the ps2 port wouldnt light em up anymore.
Dec 08 19:05:10  no
Dec 08 19:05:16  idroid
Dec 08 19:05:19  so what to people think about this Dev G1 being released and the leaked G1 Dev Firmware?
Dec 08 19:05:21  or
Dec 08 19:05:26  aLinux
Dec 08 19:05:33  or ADB
Dec 08 19:05:40  or Penix
Dec 08 19:05:41  android distro bitch
Dec 08 19:05:42  DJTachyon: for fucks sake. its not leaked dev firmware. that guy is an idiot.
Dec 08 19:05:43  yes
Dec 08 19:05:47  penix would be awesome
Dec 08 19:05:51  i was wondering ..
Dec 08 19:05:53  infobot: devphones
Dec 08 19:05:53  DJTachyon: wow, that QR code with the contact info is awesome...
Dec 08 19:05:53  well, devphones is an unlocked G1 available from google: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html after you pay the $25 developer registration and $399USD+shipping, or sporting http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2, or a retail g1 with engineering bootloader from http://www.gotontheinter.net/bootloader
Dec 08 19:05:54  ADD
Dec 08 19:05:56  lol
Dec 08 19:06:08  android dsitro dumbass
Dec 08 19:06:08  LesbOS
Dec 08 19:06:10  add
Dec 08 19:06:13  LOL
Dec 08 19:06:14  lesbos
Dec 08 19:06:16  LOLZ
Dec 08 19:06:21  i am roflmao
Dec 08 19:06:24  zhobbs: ;)
Dec 08 19:06:31  disconnect thats what i thought
Dec 08 19:06:46  is it just an early release of the dev g1 software?
Dec 08 19:07:03  DJTachyon: NO. that would be the same as leaked. it has nothing to do with that. seriously.
Dec 08 19:07:16  DJTachyon: the original announcement: http://www.gotontheinter.net/bootloader
Dec 08 19:07:26  yeah reading now
Dec 08 19:07:27 <_ff_> hi people! does anybody know how to get inet on G1 without WiFi and GPRS but only having it connected to laptop via USB and this laptop is connected to internet?
Dec 08 19:08:04  wait so this is your announcement? b/c it has been picked up by major news
Dec 08 19:08:15  man i hate the media
Dec 08 19:08:41  which media
Dec 08 19:08:55  lol the new companies
Dec 08 19:08:58  nes*
Dec 08 19:09:00  news**
Dec 08 19:09:01  arfgh
Dec 08 19:09:26  right. because some dumbass posted a bunch of incorrect crap to xda-dev (including the bins i posted) and then submitted it all over
Dec 08 19:09:39 * DJTachyon shakes his head ...
Dec 08 19:10:03  the intarweb has a major case of the stupid lately
Dec 08 19:10:09 * Disconnect meant to update the article earlier to be clearer about that. its updated now tho.
Dec 08 19:10:21  DJTachyon, as opposed to before?
Dec 08 19:10:32  and istr he updated the threadstarter to be a little better (at least its not incorrect info) after i called him out on it a couple of times.
Dec 08 19:12:00  jebus was a mess :P
Dec 08 19:12:03  lol
Dec 08 19:12:11  the internot is full of dumb
Dec 08 19:12:45  statistically, half of internet users are more stupid than the average internet user.
Dec 08 19:12:50  lol
Dec 08 19:12:59  haha
Dec 08 19:13:13  o.O
Dec 08 19:13:16  um...
Dec 08 19:13:27  I resemble hafl that remark on average
Dec 08 19:13:40  s/hafl/half
Dec 08 19:13:56  150% of statistics are made up on the spot or 20 minutes in the future
Dec 08 19:14:14  Max headroom
Dec 08 19:14:16  :/
Dec 08 19:14:32  Now there's a show that needs a remake, or not
Dec 08 19:14:58  lol, 75% of the users on my site are using ubuntu
Dec 08 19:15:04  thats kinda funny
Dec 08 19:15:53  is there a way to make eclipse auto sign apps with your real key?
Dec 08 19:15:55  I'd say that's a good thing
Dec 08 19:16:12 * DarkriftX heads off to work
Dec 08 19:16:12  damn it. Anyone want to buy a G1? (or trade for an ADP1?) ;)
Dec 08 19:16:23  adp1?
Dec 08 19:16:24  KNY: you and us all.
Dec 08 19:16:27  KNY: that said.
Dec 08 19:16:39  KNY: why? rc30?
Dec 08 19:16:45  KNY: I'm hopeful once the ADP1 arrives, we can have some luck reflashing a stock g1 to it. ;)
Dec 08 19:16:46  hrm
Dec 08 19:16:46  grey-, yeah, I wish they'd told us about this before we all went and bought G1s
Dec 08 19:16:54  KNY: but think of the money lost!
Dec 08 19:17:00  KNY: by suckers like us who would pay twice! ;)
Dec 08 19:17:03  haha
Dec 08 19:17:10  I'm not buying this phone twice
Dec 08 19:17:13  i really never though i would be annoyed by G1 versions .. what is this? PSP modding?
Dec 08 19:17:14  KNY: there are business made on us suckers.
Dec 08 19:17:14  well, i actually for 1 would like two
Dec 08 19:17:20  KNY: yeah, esp. this fucking htc.
Dec 08 19:17:29  grey-, yeah, it's not *that* nice
Dec 08 19:17:30  you don't want to screw up your active phone completely :)
Dec 08 19:17:32  i would like 2 as well
Dec 08 19:17:45  oh, I'd love two. I just don't want to pay for a second
Dec 08 19:17:49  michaelnovakjr: I already have an unlocked backup phone in case of crisis.
Dec 08 19:17:50  dont want downtime when you flash an os with a horrible change
Dec 08 19:17:54  but if you guys want to give me a spare, I'll send you my PO box :)
Dec 08 19:18:10  i didnt know you could send people PO Boxes ..
Dec 08 19:18:22  DJTachyon, yeah, it's a new technology called /msg
Dec 08 19:18:28  yea it's a lot of work though
Dec 08 19:18:28  ;)
Dec 08 19:18:28  anyone else having problems with gtalk right now?
Dec 08 19:18:46  languish: testing
Dec 08 19:18:54  languish: apparently.
Dec 08 19:18:59  grey-, thanks
Dec 08 19:19:02  languish: " Kenji did not receive your chat."
Dec 08 19:19:04  weird.
Dec 08 19:19:29  languish: yah its returning 502s
Dec 08 19:19:33  nod
Dec 08 19:19:35  someitmes the message gets through anyway, somteims not
Dec 08 19:19:40  yes
Dec 08 19:19:44  this means the ADP1 won't be locked to t-mobile, yes?
Dec 08 19:19:46  anyway.
Dec 08 19:19:50  KNY: correct.
Dec 08 19:19:59  KNY: but you can unlock your g1 after 90 days anyway.
Dec 08 19:20:01  KNY: if you read the google page, you'd learn a lot about the adp1.
Dec 08 19:20:06  but the real question is...
Dec 08 19:20:11  with the ADP1
Dec 08 19:20:16  grey-: or faster if you are an existing customer (it was under 2 weeks for mine)
Dec 08 19:20:21  Disconnect, yeah, but I have you suckers to answer my questions for me ;)
Dec 08 19:20:22  what needs to be done to flash that onto a G1?
Dec 08 19:20:24 * KNY goes off to read
Dec 08 19:20:26  (assuming I already have root)
Dec 08 19:20:43  Disconnect: well 90 days of good standing, if you were a tmobile customer before you should be good.
Dec 08 19:20:50  Disconnect: but maybe 2 weeks?  *shrug*
Dec 08 19:20:54  grey-: unlock has nothing to do with the software load (well, the software passes in the unlock code but it doesn't do the unlock)
Dec 08 19:20:58  a friend got his unlocked right away pretty much.
Dec 08 19:21:15  Disconnect: we're just talking sim unlock?
Dec 08 19:21:17  or some other unlock?
Dec 08 19:21:35  sim unlock is handled outside the linux portion of the phone. so flashing from ADB1 isn't gonna help
Dec 08 19:21:56  adp1?
Dec 08 19:23:24  is anyone connected to this irc server/channel with their G1?
Dec 08 19:24:45  im sure some are
Dec 08 19:24:52 * DarkriftX really goes to work now
Dec 08 19:25:32  Disconnect: oh I agree.
Dec 08 19:25:38  Disconnect: but sim unlock can happen whenever.
Dec 08 19:25:46  Disconnect: I'm more interested in the rest of the ADP1 features.
Dec 08 19:26:29  such as? its old open-source-tree-based android version? or the engineering bootloader (or some variant thereof) that we already have? or is it the backplate? :)
Dec 08 19:26:37  meebo needs to hurry up an release a usable im client
Dec 08 19:27:02  marix: usable relative to the sk IM?
Dec 08 19:27:23  marix: sidekicks/danger proxy their IM so it makes it seem like you're online even when you get disconnected a lot.
Dec 08 19:27:51  grey- usable like how my blackberry can stay connected without fail and doesn't drain my battery
Dec 08 19:28:05  ahh.
Dec 08 19:28:19  not sure if blackberry does proxying too.
Dec 08 19:28:32  but seeing how dependent blackberries are on RIM's infrastructure it wouldn't surprise me.
Dec 08 19:28:38  its some proprietary thing i don't know if proxying is the word
Dec 08 19:28:43  (the battery issue is different ;)
Dec 08 19:28:54  it can be done, kinda...
Dec 08 19:28:58  is there an irc client for android yet?
Dec 08 19:29:10  if so
Dec 08 19:29:15  seems like rim's push tech doesn't hurt batterys like most im clients do
Dec 08 19:29:21  you could do androidirc -> bnc [e.g. psybnc] -> bitlbee.
Dec 08 19:29:24  grey-: there is. gfriendfinder iirc. its in marketplace.
Dec 08 19:29:26  i dont know of one im asking the same thing
Dec 08 19:29:33  Disconnect: cool I'll check it out.
Dec 08 19:29:42  Disconnect: do you know if it does irc over ssl?
Dec 08 19:29:43  disconnect,  i hate you
Dec 08 19:29:48  hy
Dec 08 19:30:00  works gr8
Dec 08 19:30:10  what works gr8?
Dec 08 19:30:23  crap, its back
Dec 08 19:30:29  its that app. i betcha $5 its that app.
Dec 08 19:30:40  girc
Dec 08 19:30:49  ah. :)
Dec 08 19:31:21  hey what mirc scripts are popular now-a-days
Dec 08 19:31:24  had michaelnovakjr released his irc client yet?
Dec 08 19:31:27  i used to script my own in college . .
Dec 08 19:31:37  hawkee .. was that the name of one?
Dec 08 19:31:45  girc is running well,  its written by nyt
Dec 08 19:31:46  i dono i would like to know though
Dec 08 19:31:58  can i get on some kind of mailing list -_-
Dec 08 19:32:00  brocktice: i thought k9 had exchange support?
Dec 08 19:32:10  http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk
Dec 08 19:32:20  hitman I know.. that's nyt's irc app
Dec 08 19:32:24  why the fuck am I reconnecting
Dec 08 19:32:43  cuz its not the Android Way to kill apps. instead you are supposed to uninstall them.
Dec 08 19:32:56  nyt's irc app beta's will expire
Dec 08 19:33:00  just a heads up
Dec 08 19:33:11  i told PlusMinus to idle in here again :)
Dec 08 19:33:16  heh
Dec 08 19:33:21  Why did he stop?
Dec 08 19:33:30  dunno .. probably busy coding his brains out
Dec 08 19:33:33  nod
Dec 08 19:33:37  that guy is a machine
Dec 08 19:33:45  expire?
Dec 08 19:33:48  yes
Dec 08 19:33:55  so after so long it wont open anymore?
Dec 08 19:33:56  he will anyday now put up a new one.
Dec 08 19:34:06  telliksemoh correct
Dec 08 19:34:10  i can't believe within 2 weeks he converted from google maps to openstreetmaps and integrated gps tracing and whatnot
Dec 08 19:34:11  aww...
Dec 08 19:34:37  telliksemoh, he keeps updating it with new revisions regularly, that last a week I believe.. and he'll keep doing it until he gets it to a release version, which he plans on selling.
Dec 08 19:34:53  selling !?>
Dec 08 19:34:54  =[
Dec 08 19:34:55  yes
Dec 08 19:35:04  hopefully its not a ridiculas price
Dec 08 19:35:04  hey i would pay a one-time-fee
Dec 08 19:35:12  probably $10-$20
Dec 08 19:35:16  unix_lappy, it does.
Dec 08 19:35:23  better than paying for VZNavigator
Dec 08 19:35:30  I doubt it'll be over-priced
Dec 08 19:35:32  when your phone already has GPS
Dec 08 19:35:48  how will he be able to tell if someones buys the .apk and posts a public link to it on the internet
Dec 08 19:35:57  he need to make a system where you can preorder in exchange for donating
Dec 08 19:35:59  google for it
Dec 08 19:36:08  vznav does live directions. same reason you have to pay for live routing w/ gearth - it costs more to get access to maps if you do that.
Dec 08 19:36:08  telliksemoh, it'll likely be phone-locked somehow
Dec 08 19:36:25  right, but it is a monthly cost
Dec 08 19:36:39  he is planning on one-time
Dec 08 19:37:30  so he's coding a turn by turn navigation?
Dec 08 19:37:31  how would you get the APK off the phone?
Dec 08 19:37:35  yeah
Dec 08 19:37:43  DJTachyon, with root, that's not difficult
Dec 08 19:37:44  DJTachyon, adb pull
Dec 08 19:37:47  i bet
Dec 08 19:37:49  :P
Dec 08 19:37:50  brocktice: the on in the market doesnt seem to.
Dec 08 19:37:54  one*
Dec 08 19:38:03  andnav2 is in beta
Dec 08 19:38:08  unix_lappy, if it's not 0.19 it won't.
Dec 08 19:38:08  but it doesnt support US routing yet
Dec 08 19:38:15  =[
Dec 08 19:38:28  hey is raising money for the US server kick-off
Dec 08 19:38:31  unix_lappy, http://k9mail.googlecode.com/files/K9-0.18.apk
Dec 08 19:38:41  .19?
Dec 08 19:38:47  er sorry
Dec 08 19:38:50  0.18
Dec 08 19:38:55  12-08 14:37:53.252: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(4271): java.lang.RuntimeException: WakeLock under-locked dgAlert    ???
Dec 08 19:39:00  Is the latest
Dec 08 19:39:18  what changed in the new SDK for APIDEMOS?
Dec 08 19:39:41  the adobe flash player still hasnt come out yet right?
Dec 08 19:39:50  unix_lappy, brb if you have more questions, need to get an esprsso
Dec 08 19:39:54  espresso, see how I need it?
Dec 08 19:41:57  anyone else using k9?
Dec 08 19:42:09  yep
Dec 08 19:42:35  oh doctor who references ..
Dec 08 19:42:37  what is it?
Dec 08 19:42:37  naturally
Dec 08 19:42:41  email client
Dec 08 19:42:47  and now we have an SMS fork as well!
Dec 08 19:42:58  can it use microsoft exchange server?
Dec 08 19:43:05  If you're using WebDav for it
Dec 08 19:43:20  i do like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference (besides "Google" of course) .. anybody else found it?
Dec 08 19:43:52  hint: it is an option in the g1
Dec 08 19:46:31  nobody? :P
Dec 08 19:47:20 * DJTachyon sighs
Dec 08 19:50:51  anyone running goobuntu on a T61 laptop here?
Dec 08 19:51:19  When it's said that you can replace any app on the device, does "you" refer to say, T-Mobile?
Dec 08 19:51:51  christ these bots are annoying
Dec 08 19:53:06  michaelnovakjr, bots?
Dec 08 19:53:07  brocktice: found a bug with k9, if you're in landscape mode on the intro screen the layout doesnt use the entire screen.
Dec 08 19:53:18  unix_lappy, It's a known bug.
Dec 08 19:53:23  There's already an issue in the tracker
Dec 08 19:53:28  ^^ t61? on the #android channel?
Dec 08 19:53:39  If you find any other bugs please report them there, though.
Dec 08 19:54:24  brocktice: that really depends on the definition of "app" and "device" :)
Dec 08 19:54:57  from code.google.com/android/: Any app on the mobile device can be replaced or extended -- even core components such as the dialer or home.
Dec 08 19:55:00  you can't replace on a t-mobile device but you can resign and change the signature and install it
Dec 08 19:55:25  brocktice: kinda like your mail fork.... its a system app but you can modify it and install it
Dec 08 19:55:44  michaelnovakjr, Ah, I see.
Dec 08 19:55:57  in the settings there's no way to remove those apps
Dec 08 19:56:00  We're having problems where both the built-in messaging app and K-9 SMS are intercepting incoming SMSes.
Dec 08 19:56:11  Free Programming ebooks With Direct Links & Request-ebooks Here :
Dec 08 19:56:13  http://request-ebooks.blogspot.com/
Dec 08 19:56:20  brocktice: i'm seeing .19 as the only version with exchange support?
Dec 08 19:56:41  unix_lappy, let me see
Dec 08 19:56:42  Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Reference: hint: it is a built in sound option in the phone
Dec 08 19:56:44  brocktice: you can set a priority on the receiver i think
Dec 08 19:56:52  i wrote an SMS app for m5
Dec 08 19:57:00  michaelnovakjr, Oh, thanks. I'll look into it.
Dec 08 19:57:27  unix_lappy, You're right, I'm sorry.
Dec 08 19:57:34  It's just not on the front page
Dec 08 19:57:35  http://code.google.com/p/k9mail/downloads/detail?name=K9-0.19.apk
Dec 08 19:57:43  So I was right in thinking 0.19 before...
Dec 08 19:57:53  "squatting" on another app's package name is not considered replacing or extending, it's considered trying to h@x0r. :)
Dec 08 19:58:16  morrildl, The names are separate.
Dec 08 19:58:19  If you want to write an app that replaces the email app, then you just write your own app in your own package that registers itself on the same Intent filter, and then the user decides
Dec 08 19:58:22  morrildl: what is extending them
Dec 08 19:58:40  michaelnovakjr: extending == using ContentProviders, Services, etc.
Dec 08 19:58:55  morrildl, That's what we did, but like I said the problem is the SMS hook.
Dec 08 19:58:57  ah, makes sense, and replacing?
Dec 08 19:59:02  I'm going to check priorities per michaelnovakjr
Dec 08 19:59:09  brocktice: you mean the loack of an appropriate BroadcastIntent?
Dec 08 19:59:42  morrildl, I guess I don't know what I mean exactly.
Dec 08 19:59:55 * morrildl has to run to a meeting, but I will check in when I get back
Dec 08 19:59:58  or feel free to email me
Dec 08 20:00:00  I'm still learning how Android works. I just hack little bugfixes in K-9 that don't require such knowledge.
Dec 08 20:00:04  OK, thanks.
Dec 08 20:04:47  Any word on g1 UMA availability? Perhaps UMA planned as Android platform feature?
Dec 08 20:06:40  is there a linear layout that switches from vertical to horizontal when the orientation of the phone changes?
Dec 08 20:06:58 <_Lunch> good question
Dec 08 20:07:06  dj: i don tunderstand how that would be useful
Dec 08 20:07:08 <_Lunch> actually I'm not sure what really happens when you change orientation
Dec 08 20:07:51  so if i have box a above box b in portrait mode, i could switch to have box a next to box b in landscape mode
Dec 08 20:08:14  except your widths are messed up
Dec 08 20:08:20  if you used fill_parent
Dec 08 20:08:31  right?
Dec 08 20:08:42  not if you use sub-layouts correctly
Dec 08 20:09:01  i already have 3 nested sub-layouts
Dec 08 20:09:18  i just want the two main sections in portrait to be next to each other in landscape
Dec 08 20:09:34  cant you just change the layout orientation in code?
Dec 08 20:10:17  probably .. that was what i was wondering .. do i just change the orientation property on the portrait<->landscape activity
Dec 08 20:13:03  ugh this high level stuff pisses me off :P .. I can't wait til i get to the point where i need to modify low-level audio api calls ..
Dec 08 20:13:17  i have a feeling i will need to add my code at the low-level though ..
Dec 08 20:13:37  for the most part
Dec 08 20:13:50  and the app will just be a pretty interface :P
Dec 08 20:14:54  how easy is it to just replicate the media player in an app?
Dec 08 20:15:10  copy paste fun
Dec 08 20:15:13  you got the code...
Dec 08 20:15:47  i was hoping you would say that :)
Dec 08 20:16:07  i need to be able to select media from the library, pause, play and seek
Dec 08 20:16:23  alansj: im still working on repacking those images, where do i find the line that refers to the incorrect bootloader build number?  also, i downloaded the mac binary of mkbootimg and when i ran the repack perl script i got the following error message:
Dec 08 20:16:35  alansj: sh: mkbootimg:command not found
Dec 08 20:21:04  hey there
Dec 08 20:21:23  the error is because it can't find mkbootimg in your path
Dec 08 20:21:38  1sec
Dec 08 20:23:04  this htc mogul is a total piece
Dec 08 20:23:18  korndub: i don't know if nandroidbackup runs on mac, but if bash is compatible and md5sum + adb are in your PATH, it should just work
Dec 08 20:23:24  i thought the  g1 styling was bad,  this is horrid
Dec 08 20:23:32  I'm assuming mkbootimg is in the directory you're running the script from.  If it is and you're still getting the error, you can edit the perl script to change system ("mkbootimg to read system ("./mkbootimg
Dec 08 20:24:07  korndub: either case, it needs improvement; apparently I'm not yet reading the data right, so even though it backs up fine, it doesn't take bad blocks into account. so i wouldn't flash stuff back with fastboot yet (if at all possible with these dumps)
Dec 08 20:24:33  infernixx: he's referring to my unpack/repack scripts
Dec 08 20:24:51  alansj: im replying to his post in a thread @ xda :)
Dec 08 20:24:57  ah yes
Dec 08 20:25:23 * infernixx refocuses efforts on nanddump.c
Dec 08 20:25:49  I assume the lack of replies means no information on UMA for android or G1 phones is available at this time?
Dec 08 20:26:13  korndub: the path to the script is signed-kila-ota-116143-prereq.TC4-RC19+RC28+RC29/META-INF/com/google/android/update-script
Dec 08 20:27:43  alansj: thanks!  and thanks to you too infernixx - i love my g1 but hate that its locked down
Dec 08 20:27:59  im glad that there are so many people involved in freeing the G....
Dec 08 20:28:24  sweet almos at 20k downloads for one app
Dec 08 20:28:39  btw, i have my personal g1 which is running jfs RC30 and i have one that is locked with official rc30 and one that has the engineering boot loader, with jf rc30.
Dec 08 20:28:54  cattch you guys later
Dec 08 20:29:23  if anyone has any ideas that they want me to try on any of these, let me know.  i will be happy to try.  two of these can be used to test without worry
Dec 08 20:29:49 * wpk has full UMA docs on his shelf...
Dec 08 20:30:49  wpk: that mean you intend to blaze a UMA trail for android and/or g1 phones?
Dec 08 20:31:57  UMA = the wifi calling crap right?
Dec 08 20:32:03 * RyeBrye goes to find wpk's shelves
Dec 08 20:32:07  wpk: I assume for uma to be done right, it will require integration with existing call handling
Dec 08 20:32:20  RyeBrye: yes...though few would call it crap
Dec 08 20:32:47  s/crap/stuff
Dec 08 20:32:53  any easy way to border a layout?
Dec 08 20:33:01  RyeBrye: :)
Dec 08 20:33:33  RyeBrye: I use the same terminology - just don't run into people saying "crap" as "stuff" very often
Dec 08 20:33:36  add a border to a layout i should say
Dec 08 20:34:44  wpk: which is to say, only tear down call after UMA call can be confirmed - and in reverse as well to allow for seamless transfer between wifi and network
Dec 08 20:36:23  RyeBrye: if you have GSM stack, the rest is pretty easy
Dec 08 20:37:02  Hm. The GSM stack we don't have access to - it's all in the black box of the radio image, right?
Dec 08 20:37:18  RyeBrye: not all of it afaik
Dec 08 20:39:49  wpk, RyeBrye: So does that mean UMA is doable? On a roadmap? Planned for Android but perhaps not g1? Anyone care to speak (unofficially of course) as to UMA possibilities, both short and long term, if known?
Dec 08 20:40:15 * RyeBrye has no inside info. and no clue. 
Dec 08 20:40:58  Dunno... for rooted / dev phones getting proper voip to work and making a SIP client might be easier
Dec 08 20:41:55  ugh must you code draw boxes to get a border around a layout?
Dec 08 20:42:54  RyeBrye: I wouldn't argue with that. I just *assumed* if a VoIP option was to become available, it would be UMA given T-m's history.
Dec 08 20:43:33  Yeah, but... T-mobile wont be writing this voip - and we have no control over what T-mobile does... but we do have control over what we do / write
Dec 08 20:43:34  how about iSkoot? :P
Dec 08 20:43:45  RyeBrye: but for seemless support, it would still seemingly require some type of call control integration
Dec 08 20:44:01  ive used iSkoot for VoIP to Holland on the G1 :)
Dec 08 20:44:36  RyeBrye: Is that type of call control available in Android?
Dec 08 20:44:42  BlindOracle: Yeah, but you can write your own dialer on the G1 - G1 central has one that links into Grand Central
Dec 08 20:45:05  RyeBrye, I always get busy signals when I use that.
Dec 08 20:45:16  Wish they'd integrate grandcentral with Android.
Dec 08 20:45:23  Or do anything with grandcentral for that matter.
Dec 08 20:45:37  for the ignorant (saves hand), what is grandcentral?
Dec 08 20:45:45  saves = waves
Dec 08 20:45:55  I wish I had a GC account
Dec 08 20:46:18  GrandCentral = http://grandcentral.com
Dec 08 20:46:41  hello. Is this also the right place to ask about the new android dev phone? (ie: hardware)?
Dec 08 20:47:00  BlindOracle, Google bought them, and then changes and signups ground to a halt.
Dec 08 20:47:07  Have heard nada from them since April or so.
Dec 08 20:47:19  Still up and running though.
Dec 08 20:47:26  infobot: tell lvh about devphone
Dec 08 20:47:29  that's pretty cool
Dec 08 20:47:32  infobot tell lvh about devphones
Dec 08 20:47:44  i believe infobot is gone
Dec 08 20:47:46  yeah I used the gsm feature codes to set tmobile to forward to it as my voicemail
Dec 08 20:47:51  lvh: CHeck out our FAQ first then ask away:  http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 08 20:48:30  Google Folks: Please prod someone to let us know what's up with GrandCentral. Please.
Dec 08 20:48:35  It's actually starting to shape up quicker than I thought it would...
Dec 08 20:49:01  anyone tried phonefusion for visual voicemail?
Dec 08 20:49:07  i have
Dec 08 20:49:13  decent?
Dec 08 20:49:13  i have it all setup
Dec 08 20:49:13  yea it's not that great
Dec 08 20:49:27  its okay except it uses text messages for data communcation
Dec 08 20:49:32  It's a great concept
Dec 08 20:49:36  DJTachyon, yikes
Dec 08 20:49:46  if GrandCentral wasn't all flash-based, it woudl be fine for visual voicemail
Dec 08 20:49:52  yeah they bitch up and down about it
Dec 08 20:49:55  RyeBrye, their mobile site is fine.
Dec 08 20:50:01  Oh, they have a mobile site?
Dec 08 20:50:04  yeah
Dec 08 20:50:04  the app description says "blame google, not us"
Dec 08 20:50:11  very 1998
Dec 08 20:50:13  But it works.
Dec 08 20:50:50  I don't get enough voicemails to need visual voicemail, so I don't bother with it.
Dec 08 20:51:02  *shrug .. its cool for now ..
Dec 08 20:51:11  hey guys, how can i sign an entire update with the Signapk.jar... i tried it a couple of times, and it inserts files which messes up the structure.
Dec 08 20:51:15  The music player finds all the audio files that the visual voicemail downloads
Dec 08 20:51:37  bert0, I wish there were some way to restrict where the pictures and music player apps looked for stuff.
Dec 08 20:51:38  so I will be listening to music, and bam it goes to an old voicemail
Dec 08 20:51:47  just like the gallery finds all of the openstreetmap tiles ;)
Dec 08 20:52:04  I guess when I get my devphone I can change that stuff :)
Dec 08 20:52:11  its the scanner
Dec 08 20:52:16  it finds anything on the sdcard
Dec 08 20:52:29  should be able to set what it parses
Dec 08 20:52:32  that would be nice
Dec 08 20:52:37  it only picks up things with a recognized extension though.  app developers should not put an extension on files they dont wish to be picked up
Dec 08 20:52:39  lvh: Did FAQ answer your questions?
Dec 08 20:52:47  I imagine at the very least you could cull the results from the scanner?
Dec 08 20:52:49  jasta, yup :)
Dec 08 20:52:56  jasta .. well not everybody develops only for android ..
Dec 08 20:53:07  what do you suggest for andnav and openstreetmaps?
Dec 08 20:53:10  brocktice: most people in here dont use enough minutes to warrant a voice plan....
Dec 08 20:53:23  with standard picture tiles used by all openstreetmap applications
Dec 08 20:53:30  jasta, That's no good for normal files like podcasts and whatever that you don't want showing up in the music player.
Dec 08 20:53:30  tauno_: brocktice, "When I talked to Cole Brodman, the CTO of T-Mobile, after the event about what would stop something like Skype from designing a program that could run on the phone, negating the need for a massive voice plan, he said he had "worked with Google" to make sure Android couldn't run VOIP. "
Dec 08 20:53:45  That's disappointing. That was wide implications.
Dec 08 20:54:06  wait .. so what about iSkoot?
Dec 08 20:54:08  eh its all bullshit
Dec 08 20:54:09  Since he said "Android" and not "T-m's G1"
Dec 08 20:54:18  android could run VOIP no problem
Dec 08 20:54:35  Do you think he took into account root access to g1?
Dec 08 20:54:41  i used iskoot on my windows mobile and it works :P
Dec 08 20:54:54  AstainHellbring: clearly it can do it...it's a question of it doing it well. Call control of some type is needed to really do it well
Dec 08 20:54:59  and garenteed if another provider wanted voip in android it would be there that second
Dec 08 20:55:09  iSkoot just uses voice minutes for skype -> phone right?
Dec 08 20:55:20  JesusFreke: can you help me figure out what im doing wrong?  I am trying to use the SignAPK to sign an RC29 update that i extracted the images for and repacked.  it keeps changing the structure.
Dec 08 20:55:24  i thought the problem was that the applications don't have a way to get voice streams?
Dec 08 20:55:44  FOr those Andorid devices that don't have touchscreens, is there a keyboard way to deal =with notifications?
Dec 08 20:56:43  kirberich: ouch
Dec 08 20:56:45  bgupta: menu -> notifications brings it up
Dec 08 20:56:53  bgupta: sorry about the late reply, no, it does not
Dec 08 20:57:01  Yeah, no voice streams = no vocoder = no app to make me sound like Optimis Prime on my phone :(
Dec 08 20:57:22  RyeBrye, I think I find that actually sadder than not being able to use voip ;)
Dec 08 20:57:27  I was wondering if there are physical stores you can walk into and buy one of those phones.
Dec 08 20:57:32  I'm assuming you can't.
Dec 08 20:57:39  no you can't lvh
Dec 08 20:58:02  BlindOracle, indeed.
Dec 08 20:58:19  kirberich: no voice stream = packetized stream or raw audio (mic)?
Dec 08 20:58:35  Damn. I was going to travel to the US, so I figured I could save on some huge shipping costs to the EU.
Dec 08 20:58:42  i mean, we might be able to get around that in rooted/dev phones, but with so few people who could use it it might not be developed
Dec 08 20:58:50  lvh: wait wait.. not yet, but I opening a new store called "Dev Toys 'r' Us". ;)
Dec 08 20:58:55  lvh, Have it shipped ahead to your hotel?
Dec 08 20:58:59  BlindOracle, I don't know, it's just what I picked up from a conversation a couple of hours ago
Dec 08 20:59:22  brocktice: good idea...people do that with luggage too
Dec 08 20:59:30  Yep
Dec 08 20:59:32  lvh, what brocktice said. that would actually be very geeky cool.
Dec 08 20:59:42  i love "do no evil" combined with 600% overhead on taxes and duties (to canadia at least) :)
Dec 08 20:59:45  Just call the hotel and tell them you're expecting a package perhaps before you arrive.
Dec 08 20:59:48  brocktice: I suppose that might be a good idea, not sure how much I trust that but I suppose it's worth considering.
Dec 08 21:00:00  People do it all of the time.
Dec 08 21:00:02  brocktice: It's not heroin, I swear!
Dec 08 21:00:10  brocktice: Okay, I'll take your word for it ;-)
Dec 08 21:00:15  We had a guy come out to set up our cluster and he shipped a box of parts to his hotel before he arrived.
Dec 08 21:00:18  lvh, just tell the hotel people you're gonna blow the 180 bucks you save on the minibar
Dec 08 21:00:22  lvh: WHere in the US are you going?
Dec 08 21:00:26  i'm sure they'll comply
Dec 08 21:00:27  kirberich: Geeky cool in the sense that I won't leave my hotel room?
Dec 08 21:00:32  bgupta: NY, NY
Dec 08 21:00:44  lvh, well that would actually be a point against sending it to your hotel
Dec 08 21:00:52  bgupta: followed by a number of places within 100mi of stanford
Dec 08 21:01:08  because staying in a hotel in ny and not doing anything except playing with your new phone is definitely more expensive than having it shipped abroad
Dec 08 21:01:34  kirberich: well, if RyeBrye has actually used iskoot then it's safe to assume input from the mic is available, which would force one to have to distinct modes of calling and no transparent wifi/network transitions - plus software codecs
Dec 08 21:01:46  BlindOracle, he used it on windows mobile.
Dec 08 21:01:51  lvh... send me your email address.. we might be able to work something out. I live in NY, NY...
Dec 08 21:01:54  kirberich: oh, I thought he said on g1
Dec 08 21:01:55  Actually, I could probably ask some of the people I'll be visiting near Stanford if I can ship it to their home address.
Dec 08 21:01:59  I haven't used iskoot - Disconnect had
Dec 08 21:02:01  It is available on the G1
Dec 08 21:02:05  bgupta: sorry, but no thanks
Dec 08 21:02:06  I think it does voip for skype to skype
Dec 08 21:02:07  not me
Dec 08 21:02:09  ok now i'm confused.
Dec 08 21:02:11  oh, someone has
Dec 08 21:02:14  bgupta: I'm paranoid.
Dec 08 21:02:27   i used iskoot on my windows mobile and it works :P
Dec 08 21:02:34  'twas tachyon.
Dec 08 21:02:37  and last i saw it was within the terms and all that, which meant it did some sort of IM and then it did voice-gateway-calling (over voice mminutes) to skype
Dec 08 21:02:41  lvh: No worries.. sending it to your connecticut contacts is prolly your best bet...
Dec 08 21:02:42  lvh - just make him pay and you pay him an extra $60 for him buying the phone for you...
Dec 08 21:03:04  if you bail, he can still resell it for a profit I'm sure
Dec 08 21:03:16  bgupta: stanford is in connecticut now?
Dec 08 21:03:25  okay, then please allow me to back up and rephrase my question. Is any form of VoIP integration (SIP/UMA) planned for the android platform or the g1 phone?
Dec 08 21:03:31  lvh: Ah read that as Stamford.
Dec 08 21:03:34  ah :D
Dec 08 21:04:14  BlindOracle: probably not for g1 at least, since its against all the tmob/google marketplace ToS
Dec 08 21:04:24  BlindOracle, it is desired, prohobited and will be available, if at all, then only for those with root
Dec 08 21:04:35  Somehow I connected the fact you are coming to NY with that.. BTW _ I am paranoid to.. was gonna actually give you mine, and have you order another one and have it shipped ot me
Dec 08 21:05:21  If the standford stuff doesn't work out... you can ping me here.
Dec 08 21:05:24  that's too bad. I know of and have read of far too many people which will simply ignore the g1 in favor of something like the curve simply because it supports UMA.
Dec 08 21:06:05  BlindOracle: Well you can't win everyone. G1's don't work with BES servers. This knocks out much of the business world.
Dec 08 21:06:46  BlindOracle, yeah, though it annoys me less because of the missing voip than because of t-mobile and google legislating my tech.
Dec 08 21:07:21  wait .. so nobody here has tried iSkoot/Skype on the phone?
Dec 08 21:07:49  DJTachyon, apparently not
Dec 08 21:07:51  I've used iskoot.. it's not VOIP
Dec 08 21:08:04  It has some sort of callback mechanism..
Dec 08 21:08:04  DJTachyon I think it uses your minutes still so I never tried it
Dec 08 21:08:06  what would you call it then?
Dec 08 21:08:11  skype gateway
Dec 08 21:08:20  You are using minutes.
Dec 08 21:08:20  kirberich: well, it's not clear to me google is doing to legislating. It smells more of t-mobile. I read elsewhere, and the quote above seems to confirm, t-mobile is working hard to backpedel on their UMA offerings as they are loosing money
Dec 08 21:08:27  odd
Dec 08 21:08:42  I just use it mostly for IM...
Dec 08 21:08:53  BlindOracle, but my phone won't even use t-mobile and still i can't get a microphone stream ;)
Dec 08 21:08:56  well i guess it is still better than getting charge $1.50 a minute for calling to holland
Dec 08 21:08:59  and if any implementation is still using voice minutes, I see it as nothing more than a toy
Dec 08 21:09:13  kirberich: oh...you can't get audio stream at all...ouch...
Dec 08 21:09:21  through skype i get charged $0.28/min
Dec 08 21:09:24  BlindOracle, as far as i understand it
Dec 08 21:09:38  though I get a dev phone, so I hope it's only a matter of time ;)
Dec 08 21:09:55  It's good if you have to do international dialing, because you just pay for cell minutes.... THe international piece is from their domestic skype gateways to the overseas skype user..
Dec 08 21:10:11  but btw, I'm wondering: what os do the dev phones get shipped with? if it's r30, how do I get root on it?
Dec 08 21:10:33  kirberich: ya, I'm here today considering a dev phone my self. VoIP isn't really my dev focus but lacking VoIP support is certainly disheartening
Dec 08 21:10:39  http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/photo-contest/img/wallpaper/0908wallpaper-7_1280.jpg
Dec 08 21:10:40  hot
Dec 08 21:10:40  :o
Dec 08 21:11:06  WTF, Chewy?
Dec 08 21:11:33  my definition of "hot" isn't quite the same as yours.  :-)
Dec 08 21:12:19  looks pretty cold, actually
Dec 08 21:12:30  kirberich: so if there is no access to mic audio streams, you can't even create something as simple as a memo app?
Dec 08 21:12:59  kirberich: doesn't the breadcrumz app allow for audio samples with geographic association?
Dec 08 21:12:59  As far as iskoot goes.. much of my company's use of skype is the IM piece. (IE: We use it because we need ti for overseas LD, but end up using it for IM most of the time). iSkoot is handy if you are in this envirnment..
Dec 08 21:13:00  i'm sure you can record audio, from what I heard you just can't stream it
Dec 08 21:13:14  JesusFreke, you have a dev phone, right?
Dec 08 21:13:31  ordered one..
Dec 08 21:13:36  don't have it in hand yet
Dec 08 21:13:50  I thought you were the one who got one as a replacement and then hacked the bootloader?
Dec 08 21:14:02  no. that was dream_kill
Dec 08 21:14:05  I guess I'm confusing my names again
Dec 08 21:14:05  ah
Dec 08 21:14:06  and it wasn't really a dev phone
Dec 08 21:14:15  it just had an engineering bootloader
Dec 08 21:14:32  similiar to what's on the devphone, or maybe a prior version of the one that's on the dev phone
Dec 08 21:14:33  it hasn't the marvelous sticker on the back ?
Dec 08 21:14:37  no
Dec 08 21:14:41  Was it a full engineering bootloader, or just one with fastboot enabled? I assume the full engineering ones don't do signature checks like the one we had to patch out
Dec 08 21:14:41  dream's doesn't
Dec 08 21:14:42  :p
Dec 08 21:14:45  because i'm really wondering how unlocked the phone really is, i.e. what I will have to do to get root on the phone
Dec 08 21:15:01  kirberich: with an unlocked bootloader, hardly anything.
Dec 08 21:15:02  on a dev phone? you can probably sneaze and get root on it
Dec 08 21:15:05  kirberich: great question. I assume root was a given
Dec 08 21:15:11  kirberich: If you can get a cheap G1 that hasn't been upgraded to offical rc30, you would get basically the same functionality as a dev phone for much less. However the dev phone is the device to buy if you can't get a subsidized G1.
Dec 08 21:15:14  korndub mind if I pm?
Dec 08 21:15:24  jammr: go for it!
Dec 08 21:15:26  bgupta, I know, that's why I bought it
Dec 08 21:15:49  bgupta, or you can get a cheap subsidized G1, ebay it, and then buy a dev phone
Dec 08 21:15:50  jasta, I'll just have to reflash with the hacked r30 I guess?
Dec 08 21:16:05  JesusFreke, but then you'd have to unlock the g1 first
Dec 08 21:16:12  kirberich: yes
Dec 08 21:16:13  for me the dev phone really is a good deal
Dec 08 21:16:22  true
Dec 08 21:16:26  So if I have a modded rc30 then it
Dec 08 21:16:28  if I had bought a subsidized g1 i'd have to change to t-mobile
Dec 08 21:16:34  s the same as dev-phone?
Dec 08 21:16:42  that would cost my about 1000 euros (over two years) more than my current contract
Dec 08 21:16:50  bert0: dev phones are sim unlocked
Dec 08 21:17:11  bert0: if you risk bricking your phone to flash a modded bootloader, it can be pretty much the same thing as a dev phone
Dec 08 21:17:28  JesusFreke, when did you order your dev phone / was it shipped yet?
Dec 08 21:17:36  Flashing your bootloader probably wont - but could turn your phone into a brick
Dec 08 21:17:40  kirberich: AH you are lucky. You are in EU, where they don't have more than one set of freqs for 3G data.
Dec 08 21:17:51  yep
Dec 08 21:18:11  kirberich, over the weekend, and no
Dec 08 21:18:13  The way they deal with airwaves in the US is really braindead
Dec 08 21:18:42  JesusFreke, so same as me. I really need to stop clicking "send and recieve" and go to bed.
Dec 08 21:18:57  lol :)
Dec 08 21:19:07  I wish Google had one the 700MHz auction.. I think they were planning on doing realtime microauctions of the frequency, and opening it up to all carriers..
Dec 08 21:19:17  s/one/won/
Dec 08 21:19:17  bgupta meant: I wish Google had won the 700MHz auction.. I think they were planning on doing realtime microauctions of the frequency, and opening it up to all carriers..
Dec 08 21:20:57  JesusFreke, I'm pretty happy we got our orders in before the dev phone announcement got on slashdot
Dec 08 21:21:13  kirberich: heard about it on /.
Dec 08 21:21:16  guys, any of you could give me small piece of video which is 100% playable on g1? I am just trying to convert and it's always "unplayable".... Need workable example.
Dec 08 21:21:32  kirerich: yeah :)
Dec 08 21:22:03  hmepas_2: how about any video from youtube?
Dec 08 21:22:19  any word on how many g1s have actually sold?
Dec 08 21:22:20  bert0: i need FILE.
Dec 08 21:22:45  bert0: to determine which format it sould be so i'll be able to convert my videos to this format.
Dec 08 21:23:04  you can save youtube videos... google it
Dec 08 21:23:07  ok good luck
Dec 08 21:23:20  michaelnovakjr: you can't save the proxied-converted ones the g1 and iphone use.
Dec 08 21:23:26  michaelnovakjr: but way to be totally unhelpful..
Dec 08 21:23:59  ok then
Dec 08 21:25:59  infobot: swetland
Dec 08 21:26:00  well, swetland is the master of the android universe. He can place his finger on any mobile device and instantly have a mental image of its inner workings. His thoughts are on a different plane from normal humans.
Dec 08 21:26:34  infobot: swetland is also a swampy place with cattails and mangroves, often used as a stopover by migratory birds
Dec 08 21:26:34  like sylar from heroes
Dec 08 21:26:35  okay, Disconnect
Dec 08 21:26:39  wait thats wetlands nevermind
Dec 08 21:27:37  :)
Dec 08 21:29:13  22:26 < infobot> okay, Disconnect
Dec 08 21:29:13  22:26 < Disconnect> wait thats wetlands nevermind
Dec 08 21:29:23  got my 2nd g1 replacement today :/
Dec 08 21:29:38  mikey|: did it come with an engineering bootloader?
Dec 08 21:29:46  nope
Dec 08 21:29:47  afaik
Dec 08 21:29:59  then you are not as cool as dream_kill :)
Dec 08 21:30:15  I did have the version which lets you run commands as root
Dec 08 21:30:20  as did the last 2 ones
Dec 08 21:30:32  but in the end, I just upgraded to rc30
Dec 08 21:30:36  thats bot bootloader
Dec 08 21:30:40  er, not bootloader
Dec 08 21:30:43  If I move to san francisco and become homeless can I have a grand central account?
Dec 08 21:31:19  i know Disconnect, i meant the version of the software installed
Dec 08 21:32:01  bert0: if you're going to san francisco, be sure to wear your g1 in your hair
Dec 08 21:32:27  xsdg: freenode has a policy about alerting users about if a channel is publically logged
Dec 08 21:34:20  you need to be telling the opers
Dec 08 21:34:22  Disconnect: how did he work out he had an engineering version?
Dec 08 21:34:39  mikey|, I'd guess skateboards.
Dec 08 21:34:39  swetland SanMehat morrildl one of them needs to either kick infobot or fix the topic to mention the logging again
Dec 08 21:34:47  oh ok
Dec 08 21:34:51  i read the blog post
Dec 08 21:34:57  but didnt see it mentioned
Dec 08 21:35:04  that, or i missed it
Dec 08 21:35:19  mikey|: we were hacking on reflashing and he kept saying it was working for him. finally the "what do you see" discussion landed on "a white screen with robots on skateboards" "wait, WTF??"
Dec 08 21:35:31  lol
Dec 08 21:35:39  ivantis: Seriously?
Dec 08 21:35:45  ya
Dec 08 21:35:49  it's in the motd
Dec 08 21:35:51  its in the join message
Dec 08 21:36:00  s/'//
Dec 08 21:36:00  mikey| meant: its in the motd
Dec 08 21:36:07 * Gary|tp motds.
Dec 08 21:36:27  today has been a long day
Dec 08 21:36:40  Just what I needed, more IRC administrivia
Dec 08 21:36:50  :)
Dec 08 21:37:00  join the community, share out opers so the community can fix it :P
Dec 08 21:37:13  that's a bad idea :)
Dec 08 21:37:13  s/join/use/
Dec 08 21:37:14  Disconnect meant: use the community, share out opers so the community can fix it :P
Dec 08 21:37:15  we can have elections!
Dec 08 21:37:31 * RyeBrye starts campaign for ops for the 2009 term
Dec 08 21:37:38  dibs on producer
Dec 08 21:37:38  huh
Dec 08 21:37:47  wait what/
Dec 08 21:37:49  ?
Dec 08 21:37:50  jibberish
Dec 08 21:37:53  dibs on founder
Dec 08 21:38:32  who owns infobot anyway?
Dec 08 21:38:59  infobot owner
Dec 08 21:39:00  TimRiker is my owner
Dec 08 21:39:01  infobot, who is your master
Dec 08 21:39:02  methinks your master is not dio
Dec 08 21:39:10  "Public channel logging should only"
Dec 08 21:39:12  keyword: SHOULD
Dec 08 21:39:26  who is tim riker?
Dec 08 21:39:53  lol, infobot gets the boot!
Dec 08 21:40:07 * morrildl tries to figure out how to set motd now :)
Dec 08 21:41:34  how are there 292 people in here?
Dec 08 21:42:50  morrildl: chanserv
Dec 08 21:42:59  but the logging thing requires it to be in the motd
Dec 08 21:43:12  random side note, would anyone object ot a NON-logging bot for storing g1-related factoids?
Dec 08 21:43:31  no objection here
Dec 08 21:43:52  yeah I know it's ChanServ, I just can't find the magic incantation
Dec 08 21:44:11  I like searching the logs for info, but if you don't mind catching me up on things every time I come in here then I have no objection
Dec 08 21:44:11  (with optional statistics, not including any that print actual comments/statements :) ..)
Dec 08 21:44:45  or I can just roll my own logs
Dec 08 21:45:54  yah there's nothing against keeping logs, just publishing them
Dec 08 21:45:57  logs are good, even better when the same stuff isn't repeated over and over and over :)
Dec 08 21:46:14  logs are good, even better when the same stuff isn't repeated over and over and over
Dec 08 21:46:23  ;)
Dec 08 21:46:26  haha
Dec 08 21:46:41  guys anybody got success with converting video for g1?
Dec 08 21:46:48   logs are good, even better when the same stuff isn't repeated over and over and over
Dec 08 21:47:02  oh, wait. rye already said that :p
Dec 08 21:47:11  How's bluetooth audio coming along disconnect?
Dec 08 21:47:19  hmepas_2:  i don't think anyone is going to do that for you
Dec 08 21:47:35  hmepas_2, Mixed luck
Dec 08 21:47:38  gotta wait for the new highspeed bt driver
Dec 08 21:47:55  michaelnovakjr: i don't need any one to do it for me, i just need 30sec sample.
Dec 08 21:47:56  hmepas_2, If it's good enough looking to bother watching the phone can't keep up.
Dec 08 21:48:13  brocktice: sorry didn't got last.
Dec 08 21:48:19  brocktice: what's your mean?
Dec 08 21:48:37  I'm not sure how enforceable the part about no bots is on a channel about androids, but...
Dec 08 21:48:45  hmepas_2: I can get low-quality results that play fine.
Dec 08 21:49:00  morrildl: i'm not a fan of bots because they are abused
Dec 08 21:49:01  But if the results are high-quality the playback is way too choppy.
Dec 08 21:49:04  and its annoying
Dec 08 21:49:18  morrildl: that's why they call you guys the robot wranglers ;-)
Dec 08 21:49:31  morrildl: you mean te topic?
Dec 08 21:49:33 * morrildl peers around, scrutinizing other nicks to see if they are bots
Dec 08 21:49:48 * JesusFreke tries to look non-bot-like
Dec 08 21:50:19  beep bop boop i am human.
Dec 08 21:50:22  morrildl: I'm not sure what the rules are, but I'm sure something like debian's bot is fine.
Dec 08 21:50:33  marix: What makes you say that?
Dec 08 21:50:39  Hmm, ChanServ is a bot.
Dec 08 21:50:42  heh heh
Dec 08 21:50:45  kick him!
Dec 08 21:50:53  He'll just come back
Dec 08 21:50:58  ChanServ is in this channel?
Dec 08 21:51:00  lvh my programming... that my human parents gave me
Dec 08 21:51:02  and I don't feel like trying to figure out how to shut him off :)
Dec 08 21:51:06  :-/
Dec 08 21:51:27  anyway he's only there to keep the channel open in case all 289 of us log off at once
Dec 08 21:51:49  Oh... the irony... bots are banned from a channel named android
Dec 08 21:51:52  ok i'll light up a bot in a few mins. facts, stats, only when spoken to and never published to the web. :)
Dec 08 21:52:08 * morrildl points to the shiny new entry message
Dec 08 21:52:16  its not going to respond is it Disconnect ?
Dec 08 21:52:23  not unless spoken to
Dec 08 21:52:27  directly addressed
Dec 08 21:52:34  i could see that getting abused
Dec 08 21:52:42  you guys are cleaning house.
Dec 08 21:52:47  michaelnovakjr: but that's the same way ttuttle works, and he doesn't really get abused
Dec 08 21:52:50  you should make it troll smart :)
Dec 08 21:52:51  ;)
Dec 08 21:53:07  ask it too many things in a short amount of time and be ignored~
Dec 08 21:53:33 * morrildl ponders the metaphysical implications of the human bots that joined the channel this morning
Dec 08 21:53:39  what are you gonna call it?
Dec 08 21:53:57  They did at least get kickbanned so I guess our policy is consistent and non-discriminatory ;)
Dec 08 21:53:59  name it Marvin :p
Dec 08 21:54:15  morrildl: :) excellent
Dec 08 21:54:44  i think you should name it freddy mercury.
Dec 08 21:54:55  I think you should name it T-1000
Dec 08 21:55:06  how about Data?
Dec 08 21:55:26  How about banned? ;)
Dec 08 21:55:31  JesusFreke, Lt.Data for clarity?
Dec 08 21:55:35  B&
Dec 08 21:55:35  Are periods allowed?
Dec 08 21:55:35  sure
Dec 08 21:55:41  morrildl: +1
Dec 08 21:56:00  apparently not
Dec 08 21:56:02  name it WOPR
Dec 08 21:56:04  :|
Dec 08 21:56:06  hey
Dec 08 21:56:12  want a bot, stick it somewhere like #android-faq
Dec 08 21:56:40  oh, perhaps give it an inflamatory name like android-fag?
Dec 08 21:56:46  blame it on a typo?
Dec 08 21:56:56 * brocktice snorks
Dec 08 21:57:21  The easiest way to avoid bot abuse is to have a policy; abuse the bot - get a 5 minute kick ban
Dec 08 21:57:37  I don't see bots abused in the other channels I'm on
Dec 08 21:58:05  are the other channels like #android ?
Dec 08 21:58:06  why don't we want the bot logging stuff again?
Dec 08 21:58:16  efnet trolls are starting to notice freenodes #android
Dec 08 21:58:24  you're going to want good bot automation
Dec 08 22:04:13  ugh efnet.
Dec 08 22:04:20  Aren't they dead yet.
Dec 08 22:04:20  ungh freenode.
Dec 08 22:04:37  freenode sucks, but no where near the fail as efnet.
Dec 08 22:05:36  ok this might need some tweaking. but for now..
Dec 08 22:05:40  *shrug*
Dec 08 22:05:40  you can't really compare the two
Dec 08 22:05:45  android: whatis g1
Dec 08 22:05:46  Disconnect: "g1" could be the first Android phone, from T-mobile
Dec 08 22:05:54  I think chanserv and nickserv are abominations solved by better protocols like silc.
Dec 08 22:06:11  and seeing how freenode prevents even privmsg's to non registered users often = fail.
Dec 08 22:06:46  grey-: thats settable by the registered user who does or doesn't want to hear from the random riffraff
Dec 08 22:06:51  OK has anyone who ordered the dev phone gotten some wierd PHP error email?
Dec 08 22:07:39  php @ teh g00glez?
Dec 08 22:07:40  bgupta, No, but they're definitely having strange problems with their systems.
Dec 08 22:07:43  oh noez!
Dec 08 22:07:50  (from norely@brightstar.com)
Dec 08 22:07:57  Why hire a company that's supposed to handle logistics when they can't handle simple logistics?
Dec 08 22:08:21  grrr... I got the confirmation email.. but when I go into the site, it is unaware of my order.
Dec 08 22:08:41  bgupta, It's unaware of everyone's order
Dec 08 22:08:55  "We are looking into the issue but the track order button is supposed to work once the order ships.  Orders will ship within 3 business days of receipt of orders."
Dec 08 22:09:05  where would you ask about a vpn client for android? on normal developer mailing list or framework?
Dec 08 22:11:29  Phlogi: you write it down in a small piece of paper, roll it up, and give it to buddha
Dec 08 22:11:53  RyeBrye: yeah good idea! :p!
Dec 08 22:15:46  Phlogi: in the general case for Android 1.0, VPN clients need to molest the routing tables and similar, and as such are generally unimplementable due to the security model
Dec 08 22:17:04  Phlogi: we're looking at adding stuff to the framework & APIs to allow VPN clients in a future version
Dec 08 22:17:05  morrildl: that means the would need a change in the android core itself? Or does the security police never allow them? If so for which reason? I really need a vpn client on  my phone, it would give me access to a lot of wirless ap's.
Dec 08 22:17:15  Phlogi: all of which is to say: you need to ask on the systems list, probably
Dec 08 22:17:59  Phlogi: it would need both, which are on the radar for a future version
Dec 08 22:18:07  which one exactly from these? http://source.android.com/discuss
Dec 08 22:18:28  morrildl: ok... not that bad news... but of course I want it as fast as possible :)
Dec 08 22:18:40  Phlogi: it depends. If you are willing to help write the code, the systems list.  If you are just wondering if it's possible, then not yet and you don't need to ask at all. :)
Dec 08 22:20:37  Is there telnet application for android?
Dec 08 22:20:57  morrildl: yes of course, generally I want to help... but i'm just at the beginning of all this. Sorry for asking again, but I can't find a systems list on that mailing lists page
Dec 08 22:21:03  hubar: yes imho
Dec 08 22:21:24  Phlogi: Do you have a webpage for it?
Dec 08 22:21:51  I recently installed that ConnectBot... maybe it has telnet as well
Dec 08 22:22:07  wow, that was a bad idea, now i have a headache
Dec 08 22:22:26  seeing rgb 255, 0, 0 on a black background
Dec 08 22:26:25  Phlogi: should be android-platform, sorry
Dec 08 22:26:43  morrildl: no problem, thanks a lot
Dec 08 22:26:58  Phlogi: np
Dec 08 22:30:50  Nice wallpaper for G1: http://assets.houstontexans.com/assets/cheerleaders/blond_640x480.jpg
Dec 08 22:31:04  How do I get it on the phone?
Dec 08 22:31:17 * brocktice blinks
Dec 08 22:33:44  hubar: save it onto sdcard under pictures, then menu->wallpaper->pictures
Dec 08 22:33:47  hubar:  you could open that url right from your phone, long tap image and choose "make a wallpaper"
Dec 08 22:33:51  never tried it myself mind
Dec 08 22:34:30  hmm, taking the sdcard out would cost me 200 calories of energy...
Dec 08 22:34:43  I will load that url instead I guess. :)
Dec 08 22:39:23  hubar: lol. just plug your g1 with usb cable which is in your phone box. it's will automaticaly offer you mount inner sd card.
Dec 08 22:39:30  like a normal usb-storage.
Dec 08 22:39:41  but, lossy. ;)
Dec 08 22:40:12  lossy?
Dec 08 22:48:43  hmm, i'm going to guess the blackberry charger doesnt work with the G1?
Dec 08 22:48:57  you would guess incorrectly
Dec 08 22:49:40  the plug looks wonky,  but it fits and has the proper power output
Dec 08 22:50:01  How do I save the image from the browser?
Dec 08 22:51:25  pushhold
Dec 08 22:52:00  nice :)
Dec 08 22:58:45  hmm i wonder if you can emulate different vibration intensities by dithering on/off time
Dec 08 22:59:07  jsharkey, That has all kinds of teledildonics applications.
Dec 08 22:59:33  ...  :/
Dec 08 22:59:50  i was thinking for games
Dec 08 22:59:58  in theory the g1 has millisecond resolution of the vibrator
Dec 08 23:01:41  jsharkey: your call on which is more profitable.
Dec 08 23:07:24  anyone tried this? http://androidcommunity.com/turn-your-regular-t-mobile-g1-into-a-developers-edition-20081208/
Dec 08 23:09:48  oh wait
Dec 08 23:09:52  just a diff bootloader.
Dec 08 23:09:53  still, nice.
Dec 08 23:10:03  means can flash -anything- right?
Dec 08 23:10:04  rc30
Dec 08 23:10:05  19
Dec 08 23:10:06  29
Dec 08 23:10:08  w/e?
Dec 08 23:10:36  grey-: Where do you think it was first discussed? It's old news here.
Dec 08 23:10:54  haha
Dec 08 23:10:55  sorry
Dec 08 23:10:59  was afk for the weekend.
Dec 08 23:11:02  Disconnect: nice!
Dec 08 23:12:35  grey-: It's just a different bootloader that will install unsigned images. IIRC no one's actually successfully used it.
Dec 08 23:13:37  oh. ;-/
Dec 08 23:15:12  Gary|tp: well they've used it successfully to replace the bootloader, right?
Dec 08 23:15:40  yeah.
Dec 08 23:15:45  ok.
Dec 08 23:15:52  so it's still potentially worth doing.
Dec 08 23:15:56  Basically, someone sent in a phone for replacement, they got it back and it had the development bootloader installed on it.
Dec 08 23:16:07  will it get rid of that frigging tmobile thing in the bootloader?
Dec 08 23:16:18  h8 that screen.
Dec 08 23:16:32  or presumably I could replace the jpg with my own?
Dec 08 23:16:38  JF/comex/some others figured out how to add it to an update, so we will eventually be able to flash anything.
Dec 08 23:16:40  And yeah you can, sec.
Dec 08 23:16:54  if there's an xda dev thread on this that'd be handy. (:
Dec 08 23:17:09  http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/9
Dec 08 23:17:17  ah rad.
Dec 08 23:17:23  Gary|tp: @_@
Dec 08 23:17:47  hi chewy
Dec 08 23:17:51  did I get banned yet
Dec 08 23:17:51  hi
Dec 08 23:17:54  o.0
Dec 08 23:17:59  no lol
Dec 08 23:18:03  from my site, or irc?
Dec 08 23:18:05  aww you deleted my topic :(
Dec 08 23:18:07  site
Dec 08 23:18:10  Hey Kyle
Dec 08 23:18:16  whoops.
Dec 08 23:18:21  i dont think so
Dec 08 23:18:26  nope
Dec 08 23:18:27  not banned
Dec 08 23:18:28  o.0
Dec 08 23:18:40  anyone know of a good g1 forums?
Dec 08 23:19:39  so here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=455860
Dec 08 23:19:41  I guess?
Dec 08 23:19:44  Seriously like double/triple check file sizes though, grey-. Even one byte off will probably fuck the phone up.
Dec 08 23:20:04  Yeah, that's the dev bootloader.
Dec 08 23:20:23  thats a protip
Dec 08 23:20:34  Gary|tp: *nod*
Dec 08 23:20:42  friggin flakey usb flash.
Dec 08 23:20:49  is md5 on the phone?
Dec 08 23:20:51  lemme check.
Dec 08 23:21:14  IIRC no, running it over USB a couple times is generally safe.
Dec 08 23:21:34  kk
Dec 08 23:21:44  Anyway, if the update.zip gets corrupted at all over USB it won't flash
Dec 08 23:21:52  hmmm.
Dec 08 23:21:52  has anyone done anything with the multi-touch POC?
Dec 08 23:21:53  k.
Dec 08 23:22:13  And if the image gets corrupted, you'll likely be able to flash it again by going into the bootloader
Dec 08 23:24:06  Chewy954: POC?
Dec 08 23:24:49  proof of concept
Dec 08 23:25:26  http://hackaday.com/2008/11/23/g1-multitouch-proof-of-concept/
Dec 08 23:26:01  k, imma chargin' my g1
Dec 08 23:27:50  anyone here dug into the MSM/okl stuff?
Dec 08 23:27:59  I've got a friend who keeps asking me about it.
Dec 08 23:28:00  my photoshop drawing is going to be put at my boot image
Dec 08 23:28:01  http://i34.tinypic.com/29bbw2u.jpg
Dec 08 23:28:01  but I haven't.
Dec 08 23:28:01  lol
Dec 08 23:28:10  Chewy954: hehe
Dec 08 23:28:20  like it? :o
Dec 08 23:28:39  it's cute.
Dec 08 23:28:42  cute lol
Dec 08 23:28:42  kinda creepy tho
Dec 08 23:29:05  lol
Dec 08 23:29:12  its a easter island statue
Dec 08 23:29:13  D:
Dec 08 23:29:16  well
Dec 08 23:29:19  was my inspiration
Dec 08 23:29:31  or one of these that i drew
Dec 08 23:29:40  http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/22/l_a57cc67b885346e1a023023ce96b116c.jpg
Dec 08 23:29:46  http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/48/l_a14ab4e5941048219ee805c54a805d16.jpg
Dec 08 23:29:54  http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/58/l_6cab0ff274dd42749c8a7fb14c29d0e8.jpg
Dec 08 23:29:55  o.0
Dec 08 23:30:45  hah
Dec 08 23:30:49  moai's?
Dec 08 23:31:38  http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/5/5146-87353-gradiuscollection21jpg-468x.jpg
Dec 08 23:32:31  arrgh, I hate name clashes :o
Dec 08 23:32:45  -- not cmonex
Dec 08 23:33:31  is there an IRC client for android yet?
Dec 08 23:33:43  ivantis: apparently yes
Dec 08 23:33:51  kewl
Dec 08 23:33:58  girc?
Dec 08 23:34:05  gfriendfinder too?
Dec 08 23:34:10  haven't used either yet.
Dec 08 23:34:55   md5 /Volumes/NO\ NAME/EngBootloader_v2_NoSigCheck.zip
Dec 08 23:34:55  MD5 (/Volumes/NO NAME/EngBootloader_v2_NoSigCheck.zip) = 8008e01cb2c35e06b704e4dfb624ce4e
Dec 08 23:34:58  grey-mbp-10-5:Downloads greydavid$ md5 EngBootloader_v2_NoSigCheck.zip
Dec 08 23:35:00  k, looks like it cp'd OK.
Dec 08 23:35:03  MD5 (EngBootloader_v2_NoSigCheck.zip) = 8008e01cb2c35e06b704e4dfb624ce4e
Dec 08 23:35:13  now to rename to update.zip and give it a whirl I guess!
Dec 08 23:38:49  what are you doing?
Dec 08 23:39:03  was going to put on the engineer bootloader.
Dec 08 23:39:22  o
Dec 08 23:39:32  sound right?  Or should I be doing something else?
Dec 08 23:44:26  is anywhere outthere ?
Dec 08 23:44:59  wait..
Dec 08 23:45:07  so I can power on with power+camera?
Dec 08 23:45:13  how many weird key combinations are there?
Dec 08 23:45:48  yay I have skateboarding androids!
Dec 08 23:45:52  w00tz.
Dec 08 23:45:59  congrats
Dec 08 23:49:43  different question.
Dec 08 23:49:47  how do I reboot from the SPL?
Dec 08 23:50:28  call-menu-hangup
Dec 08 23:50:30  I believe
Dec 08 23:50:41  ho ho
Dec 08 23:50:43  thx
Dec 08 23:50:49  man, so many secret key presses.
Dec 08 23:50:51  works in the OS too
Dec 08 23:50:53  can't remember htem all.
Dec 08 23:50:55  orly?
Dec 08 23:50:56  nice.
Dec 08 23:50:59  Learned that from one of the google guys yesterday.
Dec 08 23:51:01  or Saturday.
Dec 08 23:51:11  Much easier than holding power, etc.
Dec 08 23:51:26  It's the CTRL-ALT-DEL of the G1
Dec 08 23:52:08  clearly very nice.
Dec 08 23:52:13  thanks for the tip!
Dec 08 23:52:39  yw
Dec 08 23:52:50  where is com.android.net.http.RequestQueue ? it's not in android.jar...
Dec 08 23:53:05  and I'm using 1.0 sdk
Dec 08 23:54:22  http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=G1_keyboard_and_button_shortcuts
Dec 08 23:56:04  grey-: Check out: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 08 23:56:24  ah nice.
Dec 08 23:56:33  finding good resources has been a bit errr
Dec 08 23:56:39  well convoluted so far. (:
Dec 08 23:56:49  that looks nice.
Dec 08 23:56:58  man I wish I didn't have to work today
Dec 09 00:02:31  hmm, why does the Market take up 14 MB?
Dec 09 00:03:50  What is the benefit of using fastboot if you're not planning on doing any work on android itself?
Dec 09 00:05:52  what is fastboot?
Dec 09 00:06:52  isn't that the new bootloader you can flash onto the G1 to be able to run different android builds?
Dec 09 00:07:06  (i could be wrong)
Dec 09 00:08:31  nods
Dec 09 00:08:41  it makes testing out kernels easier
Dec 09 00:08:56  if you're not going to muck with them
Dec 09 00:09:03  i'd say stay away
Dec 09 00:09:14  oh, I'm def going to mess with them.  MUAHhH
Dec 09 00:09:21  but stupid work comes first at the moment.
Dec 09 00:09:22  *sigh*
Dec 09 00:09:26 * sparkle chuckles
Dec 09 00:09:35  I mean that said...
Dec 09 00:09:45  are there any kernels/builds out there worth checking out?
Dec 09 00:09:49  or just build from source I guess.
Dec 09 00:10:05  one question that still hasn't been answered by all this reflashing I've done.
Dec 09 00:10:16  what if I wanted to tie this device to a different google account.
Dec 09 00:10:27  or sell it after buying a real dev phone?
Dec 09 00:10:37  is there a way to get my identity off here?
Dec 09 00:10:39  got any neat plans?
Dec 09 00:10:40  oh
Dec 09 00:10:43  yeah
Dec 09 00:10:54  grey-: wipe the /data partition, or do the "factory reset" option, which does the same thing.
Dec 09 00:11:01  there's a reset option to unconfig your stuff
Dec 09 00:11:02  ah kewl.
Dec 09 00:11:09  that's easy enough.
Dec 09 00:11:23  hmmm
Dec 09 00:11:27  well one thought I had.
Dec 09 00:11:34  was doing all this stuff to my daughter's phone
Dec 09 00:11:40  (I bought her a g1 as well)
Dec 09 00:11:46  but I haven't given it to her yet.
Dec 09 00:11:50  so, conceivably then.
Dec 09 00:11:52  I could do it all.
Dec 09 00:11:59  then factory reset/wipe data partition
Dec 09 00:12:11  and give it to her and it will prompt her for credentials and stuff.
Dec 09 00:12:12  ok.
Dec 09 00:12:16  maybe I'll do that then.
Dec 09 00:12:19  I wanna hear some of the neat ideas that some of you developers have for making your own android.
Dec 09 00:12:23  saves some time for later.
Dec 09 00:13:04  well, I'd like to try stuff from whatever is in source/test.
Dec 09 00:13:15  e.g. say the bluetooth stack stuff gets added back in.
Dec 09 00:13:32  whats the story with that?
Dec 09 00:13:43  it might be nice to have the job control be able to be called explicitly by a user too.
Dec 09 00:13:54  instead of just whenever the phone sees an app lagging/crashing.
Dec 09 00:14:01  yeah
Dec 09 00:14:07  ITechJunkie: umm lemme dig up the old article.
Dec 09 00:14:32  ITechJunkie: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/08/some-information-on-apis-removed-in.html
Dec 09 00:14:36  it's tunable
Dec 09 00:14:46  sparkle: the job control?
Dec 09 00:15:08  it definitely seems like some things it's pickier about than others. (:
Dec 09 00:15:32  but it would be nice to have that available at the user's discretion on some occasions.
Dec 09 00:15:47  nods
Dec 09 00:15:50  I noticed when doing a lot of sms's when I first got the phone [to update to new #]
Dec 09 00:16:00  that it would trigger prematurely sometimes...
Dec 09 00:16:03  it has various thresholds for apps in different classes
Dec 09 00:16:07  and other times not at all, and phone would be locked.
Dec 09 00:16:13  until I popped the battery. ;-/
Dec 09 00:16:26  ow
Dec 09 00:16:30  for some reason the stock sms app doesn't seem to handle mass-sms very gracefully.
Dec 09 00:16:34  or like send-to-group
Dec 09 00:16:40  i've gotten it to thrash quite badly at times
Dec 09 00:16:43  there's a marketplace app which I think addresses that.
Dec 09 00:16:48  but i generally deserved it
Dec 09 00:17:02  but it'd be nice to maybe add some patches to the sms app so that send-to-group was a built in feature.
Dec 09 00:17:21  so like, minor tweaks/improvements to the base platform would be a real win for having dev access I think.
Dec 09 00:17:29  and well, -testing- those
Dec 09 00:17:37  nods
Dec 09 00:17:40  hopefully such improvements would get taken upstream and pushed out.
Dec 09 00:17:46  plus doing zany stuff
Dec 09 00:17:52  oh yes, teh zanies...
Dec 09 00:17:58  that has specific applications
Dec 09 00:18:13  *nod* albeit, probably written better as a game.
Dec 09 00:18:21  but one friend suggested a tamagotchi type app could be a lot of fun.
Dec 09 00:18:24  vibrate/touch.
Dec 09 00:18:25  afs client actually works well over 3g
Dec 09 00:18:29  get weak when battery life is low.
Dec 09 00:18:30  i was impressed
Dec 09 00:18:32  heh
Dec 09 00:18:45  complain when you're talking to the same friends over and over
Dec 09 00:18:53  or not getting out of the house enough
Dec 09 00:18:58  based on call logs or gps.
Dec 09 00:19:01  hmmm afs?
Dec 09 00:19:02  oy
Dec 09 00:19:04  is that builting?
Dec 09 00:19:07  err builtin?
Dec 09 00:19:26  no
Dec 09 00:19:26  novery much no
Dec 09 00:20:55  heh, wouldn't have thought so.
Dec 09 00:21:13  using the debian userland stuff?
Dec 09 00:21:20  wow thers so many new hacks for the phone, i get so lost :(
Dec 09 00:21:28  Lieutenant: are there?
Dec 09 00:21:38  some of it
Dec 09 00:21:44  well, recently there have been.
Dec 09 00:21:46  well only 2 lol.
Dec 09 00:22:02  seems pretty straightforward: get root on pre-rc30, replace bootloader w/ test-keys bootloader and reflash with jf's rc30.  Now, there's replace bootloader with engineering bootloader. ;)
Dec 09 00:22:14  my friend keeps asking me about radio/msm/okl hacks.
Dec 09 00:22:19  but I haven't dug that deep yet.
Dec 09 00:22:31  i have the modded rc30
Dec 09 00:22:41  anyone know where you can find the T-mobile contract agreement online?
Dec 09 00:22:43  Lieutenant: then you're really not far behind. ;)
Dec 09 00:22:52  Lieutenant: for now the new bootloader isn't super useful yet.
Dec 09 00:22:54  but i dont know if i should get the developer version, or what is so beneficial about that.
Dec 09 00:23:00  Lieutenant: but it will probably prove useful soon.
Dec 09 00:23:23  what about the boot image? i want a custom one :)
Dec 09 00:23:30  i saw the thread though.
Dec 09 00:23:32  Lieutenant: I assume w/ a modded rc30, you can probably reflash to the engineering bootloader.  And then presumably someone will dump the devphone build and you can flash that and be golden.
Dec 09 00:23:47  but afaik no one even has received a devphone outside of google.
Dec 09 00:23:49  zhobbs: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_Why_does_the_Market_take_up_14_MB_on_the_G1.3F
Dec 09 00:23:52  and even within, who knows.
Dec 09 00:25:08  grey-: Did someone answer your question about doing a factory wipe?
Dec 09 00:25:23  bgupta: they did.
Dec 09 00:25:32  bgupta: I'll try it later. (:
Dec 09 00:25:42  bgupta: will be nice to pre-hack my daughter's phone.
Dec 09 00:25:51  bgupta: so I can give it to her and she can just start using it.
Dec 09 00:26:14  Yeah hack aas many as you can.. as time goes on hackabe phones will become rare.
Dec 09 00:26:16 * grey- could be evil and perhaps install a keylogger on it too.
Dec 09 00:26:22 * grey- won't be that evil though.
Dec 09 00:27:41  how old is she?
Dec 09 00:28:07  16.
Dec 09 00:28:31  damn almost as old as me!
Dec 09 00:28:52  bgupta: I dunno, hackable stock g1's yes, but I assume there will be many vendors who will release phone that you can just put builds on as is.
Dec 09 00:29:00  phones even.
Dec 09 00:29:13  bgupta: the radio stuff is still closed. ;-/
Dec 09 00:29:19  but I'll poke at that in time I guess.
Dec 09 00:29:20  grey-, do you have your intimidating father beard all grown in?
Dec 09 00:29:27  KNY-: hahaha
Dec 09 00:29:37  KNY-: ironically... I did start growing a beard a few months ago.
Dec 09 00:29:44  I will shave it off when my divorce is final
Dec 09 00:29:53  I don't think it's intimidating though.
Dec 09 00:29:53  bgupta: thanks
Dec 09 00:30:03  grey-, I have three older sisters; my dad insists he practiced being as frightening as possible to any guys my sisters brought over
Dec 09 00:30:09  haha
Dec 09 00:30:15  dunno if that helps.
Dec 09 00:30:20  haha
Dec 09 00:30:22  that just encourages your kids to be sneaky.
Dec 09 00:30:31  I'd rather them be honest and educate them on risk mitigation.
Dec 09 00:30:44  "Let me show you my gun collection."
Dec 09 00:30:47  there is no security through obscurity or intimidation. ;)
Dec 09 00:30:48  Fear is the mind-killer.
Dec 09 00:30:52  brocktice: haha
Dec 09 00:30:57  brocktice, I like your ideas
Dec 09 00:31:14  My daughter is 2 months old yesterday, got to start practicing saying that now.
Dec 09 00:31:22  i really wish i knew what any of this meant: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3011444&postcount=10
Dec 09 00:31:24  So I'm good and intimidating in 15 years.
Dec 09 00:32:11  Lieutenant, 1) is easy : ))
Dec 09 00:40:47  grey-: The radio is still SIM locked you mean? If you are a tmobile customer in good standing for more than 90 days, you can call up customer service and request an unlock code.
Dec 09 00:40:56  mmm. I should prolly put that in the FAQ
Dec 09 00:41:14  bgupta: no different level of closed.
Dec 09 00:41:24  bgupta: fcc requires that cell radios not be open to end users.
Dec 09 00:41:35  bgupta: so even though the MSM is running OKL4
Dec 09 00:41:43  afaik you probbaly just talk to it using AT commands.
Dec 09 00:41:50  similar to evdo radios and the like.
Dec 09 00:42:00  but yeah I'll simunlock mine soon. (:
Dec 09 00:42:14  Are you saying the Google Dev Phone doesn't have an FCC restricted radio?
Dec 09 00:42:24  no, it does oto.
Dec 09 00:42:25  too
Dec 09 00:42:30  hence, room for more hacking! ;)
Dec 09 00:42:55  albeit, what remains to be gained from such things is unknown.
Dec 09 00:43:03  but you'll learn something, which is fun.
Dec 09 00:43:08  Yes... but that's realistically outside of G1/Android hacking. IE: You need to hack the radio and radio firmware
Dec 09 00:43:15  *nod*
Dec 09 00:43:18  well g1 yes
Dec 09 00:43:20  android?  no.
Dec 09 00:43:38  such things can come in handy...
Dec 09 00:43:44  e.g. my old samsung i730
Dec 09 00:43:58  on verizon... they did a patch to the radio firmware to disable the ability to tether evdo to usb
Dec 09 00:44:06  unless you were paying $10/mo or whatever for the privilege.
Dec 09 00:44:13  downgrading the radio to an older firmware
Dec 09 00:44:18  _or_ patching the newer firmware
Dec 09 00:44:22  removed this restriction.
Dec 09 00:44:29  which, was handy. ;)
Dec 09 00:47:38  Cool..
Dec 09 00:48:48  weird
Dec 09 01:01:55  someone with more intimate knowledge: is the lack of proper bluetooth tethering due to the lack of a bluetooth API or due to the lack of root?
Dec 09 01:01:58  (or something else)
Dec 09 01:03:16  KNY: errr prolly API.
Dec 09 01:03:17  Lack of root.  "Tethering" at the routing level requires control of iptables and packet forwarding, which aren't available to userspace processes.  The bluez API works just fine, though.
Dec 09 01:03:24  w/o a fully functioning bluetooth stack
Dec 09 01:03:33  you can basically only do handset stuff currently.
Dec 09 01:03:40  oh
Dec 09 01:03:44  well maybe I'm wrong. ;)
Dec 09 01:03:47  dang
Dec 09 01:03:52  I would think a hostap mode would be better.
Dec 09 01:03:58  but that'd be a lack of root for the 802.11 stuff. ;)
Dec 09 01:04:07 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 01:04:21  i don't think anyone's been able to coerce it into AP mode yet
Dec 09 01:04:21  Exactly the same issue.  You want your phone to be a router.  Configuring the kernel to act as a router requires root.
Dec 09 01:04:28  that said... windows mobile has done bluetooth tethering for four some odd years.
Dec 09 01:04:32  via 3rd party stuff
Dec 09 01:04:41  notion of 'root' on windows mobile is a nonstarter though.
Dec 09 01:05:08  Windows mobile apparently has a more permissive view of what 3rd party software should be able to do than Google, sadly.
Dec 09 01:05:32  andyross, you mean more permissive than t-mobile, no?
Dec 09 01:05:40  well giving your user local root when he asks for it isn't a security violation IMNSHO.
Dec 09 01:05:49  giving other people local root when you don't tell them it's OK, is.
Dec 09 01:05:55  Meh.  Whatever.  To be fair: T-Mobile didn't write the API stack, nor the security model.
Dec 09 01:06:01  hehe.
Dec 09 01:06:02  true, true
Dec 09 01:06:18 * grey- doesn't know many people left in secops at google.
Dec 09 01:06:20  I do wish there was a "gksudo" equivalent on Android, though
Dec 09 01:06:25  but I suppose I could bug a couple and ask them wtf.
Dec 09 01:06:30  it's not that the problem can't be solved without root in principle, it's that the software as shipped doesn't provide a means to do so.
Dec 09 01:06:43  andyross: right.
Dec 09 01:07:07  userland is probably viable.
Dec 09 01:07:12  maybe more with bluetooth than 802.11.
Dec 09 01:08:23  we need g1 pwnage :o
Dec 09 01:09:27  hehe
Dec 09 01:09:51  KNY: that said, the bluetooth as shipped is lackluster, no a2dp support obex push that I can seem to use, etc.
Dec 09 01:10:24  grey-, I was under the impression that a bluetooth API was coming later
Dec 09 01:10:32  in an OTA update, I assumed
Dec 09 01:10:33  KNY: *nod* I believe that is correct.
Dec 09 01:10:59  it is
Dec 09 01:11:01  man, that's going to suck writing the first bluetooth apps when not everyone has the OTA update
Dec 09 01:11:08  a million idiots emailing you asking why it doesn't work
Dec 09 01:11:30  hehe
Dec 09 01:30:09  Well, one thing I did notice there is a ton of BT stuff in the source.. including A2DP. My feeling is that the release engineering team was only doing their jobs and letting stuff out the gate that didn't have issues. (IE: My guess for A2DP is prolly IO or  battery related)
Dec 09 01:33:38  Can anyone think of any questions that aren't yet on the FAQ? http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 09 01:38:11  what's the latest version out for the g1?  still rc30?
Dec 09 01:39:19  yup
Dec 09 01:39:39  bgupta: seems reasonable.
Dec 09 01:39:50  bgupta: I'm sure bluetooth stuff will rock in the future.
Dec 09 01:40:01  we're all running rc33 tho
Dec 09 01:40:24  what'a rc33 then?
Dec 09 01:40:47  the newest secret prerelease
Dec 09 01:41:03  any reason i should go out of my ay to get it?
Dec 09 01:41:23  if you can find it its pretty good. camera is fixed, video, and flash.
Dec 09 01:41:40  still only playback of one format tho :/
Dec 09 01:42:02  wait rc33?
Dec 09 01:42:02  Disconnect: what about flash?
Dec 09 01:42:33  camera fixed?
Dec 09 01:42:37 * grey- never tried the camera.
Dec 09 01:42:57  anyone get one of these dev phones?
Dec 09 01:43:23  Are your guys'  legs tingling? ;) rc33!!!
Dec 09 01:43:52  Disconnect: Have you seen rc34 yet?
Dec 09 01:44:36  It has a battery hack that gives you 15 hours of talk time.
Dec 09 01:45:00  (Off a standard battery no less).
Dec 09 01:45:14  that i doubt but ok
Dec 09 01:47:24  Disconnect: Sorry assumed rc33 was vaporware.. I don't know why I always underestimate you. Seriosly though if rc33 exists, does JF have it?
Dec 09 01:48:02  fcrick: Noone has received the dev phones yet.. plenty of people have ordered them
Dec 09 01:49:05  Well noone has claimed to have received one.. we aren't even sure when they ship.
Dec 09 01:49:44  maan :(.... i dont know what to get. either a Samsung LN46A650 Samsung LN46A750 Samsung LN46A850 or some sony TV's, but i dont know the models they have, or which ones are the best. do any of you have HDTV's and have some good info about them?
Dec 09 01:51:10  :o
Dec 09 01:51:23  bgupta: . . . rc34???
Dec 09 01:51:35  not that I talk on my phone.
Dec 09 01:51:39  before switching to tmobile
Dec 09 01:51:49  I had over 7000 rollover minutes on at&t.
Dec 09 01:51:58  and averaged maybe 120minutes of voice calls a month.
Dec 09 01:52:09  sadly, they expire minutes after 12 months.
Dec 09 01:52:17  otherwise I'm sure I would've had well over 9000 rollover minutes.
Dec 09 01:54:35  okok.. before I have to add it to the FAQ.. there is no rc34, that I have special knowledge of. That said 15 hours of talk time on an 1150maH battery would be miraculous.
Dec 09 01:54:56  bgupta: faq?
Dec 09 01:55:27  I tend to get two days usage off my phone
Dec 09 01:55:31  fyi i'm poking through my (private) logs updating android with the factoids from this channel. although it looks a lot like infobot was just full of .. nothingness.
Dec 09 01:55:34  with my usage patterns, which is fine.
Dec 09 01:55:44  anyone know any app that specifically caters to listening to audiobooks?  i find it really annoying that i always lose my place
Dec 09 01:56:26  i wish i had an app that faked like i had just a really big cassette tape of a book and it would always remember where i was
Dec 09 01:57:06  FAQ: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 09 01:57:18  Hey all... is the phone supposed to automatically fall back to 2G if 3G isn't available?
Dec 09 01:57:27  Yes..
Dec 09 01:57:40  Well, I don't know if it's supposed to, but it certainly does.
Dec 09 01:57:50  I assume that is by design
Dec 09 01:58:23  weird... I'm seeing a problem where 3G goes away, and apps tell me they have no data connection.  I can set it to "use 2G only" and then EDGE works, but 3G won't come back unless I toggle airplane mode on then off (or reboot, obviously)
Dec 09 01:58:33  it is supposed
Dec 09 01:58:42  yah its kinda buggy that way
Dec 09 01:59:08  So that's relatively normal, even if it's not the intended design?
Dec 09 01:59:21  yah :(
Dec 09 01:59:41  fwiw it got moderately better on mine recently (while i was on rc30). might be coincidence.
Dec 09 02:00:51  mine's been at rc30 since I got it, unfortunately... so i bought a dev version last night :)
Dec 09 02:02:02  ok thats insane. in the past month or so, it looks like we only gave infobot about 20 useful factoids.
Dec 09 02:02:18  actually, that can't be right. but..
Dec 09 02:03:56  http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/Pickover/pc/brain-universe.html   .. wow epic :)
Dec 09 02:04:46  yah that looks like pretty much all of it. amazing.
Dec 09 02:05:11  so clearly we need to feed 'android' a little more carefully. for starters, where is the wiki and the faq?
Dec 09 02:09:46  you do realize bots will be kicked.... its in the join message
Dec 09 02:10:26  when we were discussing it this afternoon the objection to infobot was its full of crap, it answers when its not spoken to and (mostly) it logs on the web.
Dec 09 02:10:49  which is why i said, directly, "how about i light one up that doesn't do those things?" and go no objections
Dec 09 02:11:58  oh, no bots are allowed on freenode?  I was thinking an android docs bot would be useful (say "docs Intent" to get a link)
Dec 09 02:12:08  having grepped my logs for infobot, its even worse than i thought - i found 20 facts (so probably under 50 total) about the g1. and according to it's stats, it has over 1.1 million
Dec 09 02:12:15  zhobbs: freenode doesn't care
Dec 09 02:12:32  freenode just says if you do public logging you shouldn't. and if you do you should announce it in the topic.
Dec 09 02:14:16  bots are definitely all over freenode.
Dec 09 02:14:23  lambdabots are pretty popular round these parts.
Dec 09 02:14:44  Captain_Dingo: bummer.
Dec 09 02:14:59  Captain_Dingo: someone needs to work on hax0ring rc30 for people [e.g. those who got white ones or whatever]
Dec 09 02:15:13  zhobbs: its on this channel's join message
Dec 09 02:15:17  right, cuz nobody has thought of that yet
Dec 09 02:15:23  if you leave and come back you'll see it
Dec 09 02:15:37  Disconnect: haha not saying no one has thought of it.
Dec 09 02:16:10  grey-: As soon as they send me the dev phone, I'll stop caring :)
Dec 09 02:16:19  Captain_Dingo: well I think that's the thing.
Dec 09 02:16:34  Captain_Dingo: most people have either 1. got a phone pre-rc30 or 2. will be buying a devphone.
Dec 09 02:16:36  it'd be nice if they do it in the next 10 days so I can get this one back to the store
Dec 09 02:17:06  Captain_Dingo: the window of people who want to hack on it and got rc30 I think is slim.
Dec 09 02:17:16  Captain_Dingo: *nod* good luck!
Dec 09 02:17:18  now that they sell dev phones, what would be the harm of releasing a bootloader unlock procedure?
Dec 09 02:17:26  zhobbs: no idea!
Dec 09 02:17:37  zhobbs: but I'm not the one who knows such things.
Dec 09 02:17:44  zhobbs: remember. google owns the devphone. t-mobile owns the g1.
Dec 09 02:17:50  that's true
Dec 09 02:17:50 * grey- never saw the harm in allowing local root access to begin with.
Dec 09 02:20:13  Disconnect: does google sign the G1 updates or t-mobile?
Dec 09 02:20:58  hmm, and I guess it's safe to assume the dev phones will have a different sig/cert
Dec 09 02:21:33  HTC signs them
Dec 09 02:21:51  zhobbs: tmob submits images to htc, gets signed and offers updates
Dec 09 02:21:54  and dev phones most likely wont get OTA updates
Dec 09 02:22:24  RyeBrye: yeah, maybe
Dec 09 02:22:55  Well, I suppose they could - but what the hell would I want an OTA update if I'm a developer on a dev phone? I would have bought the phone because I wanted to be developing my own crap on it and flashing my own updates
Dec 09 02:23:06  It's NOT a consumer phone, and not ever intended to be - and OTA updates are very much a consumer feature
Dec 09 02:23:15  grr... how can i make it so that applications download to my SD card instead of to the phones memory??
Dec 09 02:23:36  RyeBrye: well, or you bought it to test your software on a phone similar to a G1 without having to switch carriers...
Dec 09 02:23:53  remember. it goes from google's trees (currently private, btu thats changing) to tmob, who can do tons of stuff to it (not least of which is installing myfaves and im and such)
Dec 09 02:23:58  the dev devices also make it easier to debug (heirchyviewer, debug any process, etc)
Dec 09 02:24:00  after that is the phones..
Dec 09 02:25:28  zhobbs: I see your point - but testing on a dev phone will not be testing on a g1. You can probably flash the entire G1 stack onto a dev phone (I'm pretty sure you could) so then you would accomplish what you want - having a G1 clone on any carrier oyu want
Dec 09 02:25:29  Android: tell warcaptain1 about apps on sd
Dec 09 02:25:44  android: tell me about apps on sd
Dec 09 02:25:49  someday???
Dec 09 02:25:51  thats insane
Dec 09 02:25:54  thats a huge problem!
Dec 09 02:26:04  android: tell me about apps on sd
Dec 09 02:26:05  so start working on it
Dec 09 02:26:12  what could be more important?
Dec 09 02:26:25  I thought you could on root'd phones?
Dec 09 02:26:36  warcaptain1: getting their source trees pushed public, for one
Dec 09 02:26:43  warcaptain1: getting an onscreen keyboard, for two
Dec 09 02:26:47  warcaptain1: shall I keep going?
Dec 09 02:26:57  couple of translations
Dec 09 02:26:59  stability
Dec 09 02:27:10  an on screen keyboard that ill have to make room for on my measly system memory?
Dec 09 02:27:11  no way
Dec 09 02:27:21  how is this a challenging thing?
Dec 09 02:27:27  security model concerns
Dec 09 02:27:28  first off, you don't have to make room.
Dec 09 02:27:33  it's not that bad unless you install everything you see
Dec 09 02:27:42 * RyeBrye installs everything he sees
Dec 09 02:27:51  RyeBrye: your phone also isnt a consumer phone any longer ;-P
Dec 09 02:27:52  but - while it's pretty simple to use sdcard space for apps, the ramifications are complicated
Dec 09 02:27:56  sparkle: it is, somewhat. esp with market/browser bugs
Dec 09 02:28:02  unix_infidel: nope, it isn't :)
Dec 09 02:28:13  unix_infidel: and I'm very happy about that :)
Dec 09 02:28:17  all of a sudden you have a lot more cases to be concerned about
Dec 09 02:28:20  i'd rather have a framework for storing database stuff on SD rather than apps.
Dec 09 02:28:27 * sparkle nods
Dec 09 02:28:30  unix_infidel: you do. just write it there..
Dec 09 02:29:02  the problem is uid/gid + fat32 gives you no protection on sd. (ahem*selinux*ahem) and android ---guarantees--- data protection for apps
Dec 09 02:29:14  can you just mount /data to the SD card or something?
Dec 09 02:29:31  Disconnect: ahh
Dec 09 02:30:25  added to that
Dec 09 02:30:56  what do you do when an sdcard gets pulled
Dec 09 02:30:59  or a new one plugged in
Dec 09 02:31:08  when does an app get a chance to fire based on a trigger
Dec 09 02:31:29  android further guarantees that nothing can modify the app after its installed.
Dec 09 02:31:29  You are moron #1, Disconnect
Dec 09 02:31:42  ..wtf?
Dec 09 02:31:53  haha
Dec 09 02:31:59  bots:p
Dec 09 02:32:27  android needs a new name...
Dec 09 02:32:27  zhobbs: I don't know, could you explain it?
Dec 09 02:32:40  android can poke itself
Dec 09 02:32:40  Wish i knew, RyeBrye
Dec 09 02:32:42  zhobbs: Disconnect's bot has turned on him
Dec 09 02:32:45  yah thats gotta go. it can play whatever games it wants that way but what it can't do is talk out of turn.
Dec 09 02:33:03  android android android
Dec 09 02:33:03  Wish i knew, RyeBrye
Dec 09 02:33:10  android kiss my butt
Dec 09 02:33:10  Wish i knew, RyeBrye
Dec 09 02:33:28  this is why bots are a bad idea
Dec 09 02:33:30  android further guarantees that nothing can modify the app after its installed.
Dec 09 02:33:30  You are moron #2, RyeBrye
Dec 09 02:33:41  someone want to go for #3?
Dec 09 02:33:51  android further guarantees that nothing can modify the app after its installed.
Dec 09 02:33:51  You are moron #3, JesusFreke
Dec 09 02:33:55  wow, thats, um entertaining
Dec 09 02:34:04  android stats
Dec 09 02:34:04  Since Mon Dec  8 17:22:44 2008, there have been 39 modifications and 5 questions and 8 dunnos and 3 morons and 14 commands.  I have been awake for 4h 11m 20s this session, and currently reference 21 factoids.  I'm using about 72068 kB of memory.
Dec 09 02:34:06 * JesusFreke is easily entertained
Dec 09 02:34:07  android modify the app after its installed
Dec 09 02:34:07  jsharkey: Are you smoking crack?
Dec 09 02:34:21  haha
Dec 09 02:34:27  android further guarantees
Dec 09 02:34:27  jsharkey: I give up, what is it?
Dec 09 02:34:33  android further guarantees that nothing
Dec 09 02:34:33  jsharkey: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
Dec 09 02:34:43  o.o
Dec 09 02:34:44  lol
Dec 09 02:34:44  android nothing can guarantee nothing
Dec 09 02:34:44  RyeBrye: I give up, what is it?
Dec 09 02:34:53  hm, anyone know why the oobsize on the NAND is reported to be only 56 bytes?
Dec 09 02:35:00  Android: your cute, can i pet you?
Dec 09 02:35:01  jsharkey: Wish i knew
Dec 09 02:35:08   /kb Android
Dec 09 02:35:13  :P
Dec 09 02:35:35  Android, you are seriouls yusing 72 megs of RAM for 21 factoids - what the hell?
Dec 09 02:35:44  so yea i moved into temp housing in mountain view, and comcaast disconnected the cable modem  :/
Dec 09 02:36:01  jsharkey: moving to mtn view?
Dec 09 02:36:10  Isn't disconecting internet in mountain view punishable by death?
Dec 09 02:36:32  when I was there the internet at my hotel sucked
Dec 09 02:36:34  like, considered worse than shutting off heat to old widows in the winter or osmething?
Dec 09 02:36:35  zhobbs: yea drove in sat night, and was in hotel til now
Dec 09 02:36:37  infernixx: i blame french minitel.
Dec 09 02:36:43  jsharkey: nice, working at google?
Dec 09 02:37:04  they gave us 53 byte atm cells, why not 56 byte oob chunks? :)
Dec 09 02:37:08  zhobbs: starting next monday  ^.^
Dec 09 02:37:14  SanMehat: where were you when i was setting that up this afternoon? (and talking to opers about it)
Dec 09 02:37:21  when you get down to it the mtd isn't really a block device
Dec 09 02:37:21  but
Dec 09 02:37:22  jsharkey: congrats! :)  android related?
Dec 09 02:37:28  it's convenient to think of it that way
Dec 09 02:38:13  SanMehat: *poke*
Dec 09 02:38:21  zhobbs: yep, but no idea what subarea ill be working on
Dec 09 02:38:31  Disconnect: i was probably coding like i have been all day :). Let me speak to Dan
Dec 09 02:39:03  jsharkey: very cool...good job
Dec 09 02:39:30  more to the point.. generally bot abuse is treated just like any other abuse (punish the abuser) btu whatever. if you are gonna stop coding to serve up urls and faq's all day tahts fine with me..
Dec 09 02:40:16  (or at least unlock the topic so it can have something vaguely topical in it)
Dec 09 02:58:10  tfx?
Dec 09 02:58:22  ?
Dec 09 02:59:42  paulproteus: what are you doing!?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 09 02:59:57 2008