**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 10 02:59:57 2008
Dec 10 03:00:00 <ivantis> *excited!!!*
Dec 10 03:00:06 <grey-> ivantis: w00tz.
Dec 10 03:00:10 <Versed> from tmo?  or google?
Dec 10 03:00:15 <ivantis> tmobile
Dec 10 03:00:29 <Versed> white?
Dec 10 03:00:32 <ivantis> black
Dec 10 03:00:40 <ivantis> white looked weird to me
Dec 10 03:01:20 <ivantis> maybe ill be in here during school asking for answers on a test
Dec 10 03:01:28 <ivantis> it does have an IRC client, right?
Dec 10 03:01:33 <Disconnect> nope
Dec 10 03:01:42 <ivantis> WoT?
Dec 10 03:01:49 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm working on one
Dec 10 03:02:04 <VersedG1> yes it does
Dec 10 03:02:19 <Disconnect> ajax doesn't count
Dec 10 03:02:36 <VersedG1> i agree
Dec 10 03:03:00 <ivantis> it looks like there is one
Dec 10 03:03:01 <ivantis> http://androidirc.net/
Dec 10 03:03:03 <Disconnect> ok. dl link? cuz last i heard, none were released.
Dec 10 03:03:22 <ivantis> VersedG1: where?
Dec 10 03:03:36 <Disconnect> ivantis: wow. "in development" "it will" "being written" "will (hopefully) have features" ... yeah there's a win.
Dec 10 03:04:20 <ivantis> or ill just use mibbit
Dec 10 03:04:26 <VersedG1> similar
Dec 10 03:04:27 <ivantis> or irssi through ssh
Dec 10 03:04:30 <nrmhrm> hi all, quick question on hard reset.  my understanding is alt+L = hard reset?
Dec 10 03:04:46 <Disconnect> it formats /data but ignores /system
Dec 10 03:04:56 <nrmhrm> i'm having problems getting anything w/that key-combo if that's the case
Dec 10 03:05:22 <nrmhrm> what's the most thorough way to reset to factory for a hardware return then?
Dec 10 03:05:26 <nrmhrm> i don't have root
Dec 10 03:05:36 <grey-> nrmhrm: power+home+back
Dec 10 03:05:48 <Disconnect> grey-: thats a reboot.
Dec 10 03:05:52 <Disconnect> not a factory reset.
Dec 10 03:06:01 <grey-> nrmhrm: or go to recovery mode (hold home + power, keep holding home), and from there alt-W
Dec 10 03:06:32 <nrmhrm> ah, kk - i had the key combo, didn't realize had to be in that mode.  kept trying to search my damn contacts :P  haha
Dec 10 03:06:34 <nrmhrm> thx will try now
Dec 10 03:07:01 <grey-> good luck!
Dec 10 03:08:34 <Rob-cs> any google staffers in the house?
Dec 10 03:08:59 <SanMehat> Rob-cs: sup
Dec 10 03:10:05 <eldenz> nn
Dec 10 03:10:15 <wastrel> hi guise
Dec 10 03:11:15 <ttuttle> SanMehat: yo
Dec 10 03:11:16 <Rob-cs> sanmehat i'm about to PM you really quick
Dec 10 03:11:25 <SanMehat> Rob-cs: ok
Dec 10 03:11:26 <SanMehat> ttuttle: yo
Dec 10 03:12:32 * ttuttle has no finals tomorrow (only one on Thursday, then I get to go home!).  What should I do?
Dec 10 03:12:48 <Disconnect> drink until you fall down
Dec 10 03:13:01 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Hmm... a worthy suggestion.
Dec 10 03:13:04 <mmitchel> blame the university for your death
Dec 10 03:13:12 <ttuttle> mmitchel: Nah, what's the point?  Then I'm dead!
Dec 10 03:13:25 * ttuttle does not want to be dead.
Dec 10 03:14:01 <mmitchel> find out why our G1 ignores the data off setting.
Dec 10 03:14:12 <ttuttle> mmitchel: "data off"?
Dec 10 03:14:28 <mmitchel> yah the big thing is people getting charged roaming fee's when they turn off data roaming.
Dec 10 03:14:31 <pfft> !bot patch
Dec 10 03:14:34 <mmitchel> lol.
Dec 10 03:14:41 <ttuttle> Ah.
Dec 10 03:14:51 <ttuttle> You mean the data roaming switch.
Dec 10 03:14:57 <Disconnect> pfft: ..wtf?
Dec 10 03:15:07 <pfft> is there a bot here?
Dec 10 03:15:14 <Disconnect> no
Dec 10 03:15:18 <pfft> oh :-)
Dec 10 03:15:23 <mmitchel> just chanserv
Dec 10 03:15:26 <Disconnect> SanMehat kicked them all
Dec 10 03:15:32 <grey-> egads h8 usb -> microSD
Dec 10 03:16:23 <mnovak> exit
Dec 10 03:16:29 <Disconnect> try with a /
Dec 10 03:16:32 <mmitchel> has there been talk of work on the bluetooth stack to support obex?
Dec 10 03:16:36 <Disconnect> yep
Dec 10 03:16:47 <mnovak> wrong window
Dec 10 03:16:54 * mmitchel just did an isync plugin for a sony phone, and is ready to do it for the g1
Dec 10 03:17:23 <grey-> mmitchel: oh, that'd be nice.
Dec 10 03:17:43 <mmitchel> yah took couple days to figure out what the sony phone wouldnt to. lots of crap to turn off.
Dec 10 03:17:49 <Disconnect> so first isync syncs, then google overwrites it all, then isync breaks address book..... sounds exciting.
Dec 10 03:17:51 <grey-> mmitchel: I find it ironic that my old symbian phone could do isync over bluetooth, but the iphone can't. ;)
Dec 10 03:18:04 <mmitchel> exactly. they went cheap on the bluetooth stack.
Dec 10 03:18:12 <grey-> Disconnect: heh, well the addressbook <-> google contact sync is kinda meh.
Dec 10 03:18:15 <mmitchel> no a2dp either. and its a freaking ipod
Dec 10 03:18:36 <grey-> Disconnect: I think I came across a bug where phone #'s with dashes '-' in them wouldn't get synced from the addressbook to gmail. ;-/
Dec 10 03:18:48 <mmitchel> this crappy sony phone does pan (personal area network too).
Dec 10 03:19:04 <Disconnect> the biggest part of whats missing here is high speed driver. everything @ 115k (so no stereo..)
Dec 10 03:19:43 <mmitchel> seriosuly? i thought the 7201a has high speed usb as one of the selling points.
Dec 10 03:20:24 <Disconnect> http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/6 from back when san was helpful
Dec 10 03:21:01 * grey- puts the 1.2 rc30 modded firmware on his daughter's phone.
Dec 10 03:21:03 <grey-> wheee
Dec 10 03:22:18 <grey-> looks good.
Dec 10 03:25:12 <mmitchel> how long ago?
Dec 10 03:27:28 <grey-> alright daughter's phone all hacked patched and put back in the box as a gift.
Dec 10 03:27:30 <grey-> w00t!
Dec 10 03:28:41 <Disconnect> should customize the boot screen
Dec 10 03:29:09 <grey-> yeah... I'll let her pick the image though.
Dec 10 03:29:20 <grey-> anyway I'm tossing in a screen protector and an extra 4GB microsdhc card.
Dec 10 03:29:53 <Disconnect> should mkae it say merry christmas (or happy license or whatever) on first boot
Dec 10 03:30:51 <SanMehat> Disconnect: Dude. if you want a bot back, just go talk to Dan.
Dec 10 03:30:57 <SanMehat> if he says its fine then whatever.
Dec 10 03:31:24 <SanMehat> your constant passive agressive nagging or whatever it is you're doing isn't required.
Dec 10 03:31:38 <SanMehat> talk to Dan. Period.
Dec 10 03:32:31 * grey- cp's off the music/etc from stock sd and moves to 4gbsdhc.
Dec 10 03:32:40 <grey-> kinda makes more sense to start with 4GB and have 1gb as backup.
Dec 10 03:33:37 <Disconnect> this is more fun. i could honestly give a fsck if you want to make the info hard to find. (although i should spend less effort answering questions and googling urls for people). if you'd like to step up and claim it wasn't you that kicked the bots then.. um.. i guess you can try.
Dec 10 03:33:50 <michaelnovakjr__> you are just being annoying
Dec 10 03:34:06 * Disconnect objects to michaelnovakjr - does that mean goog* is gonna kickban him? :)
Dec 10 03:34:19 <SanMehat> i'm not denying that i kicked the bot... the bot was annoying.
Dec 10 03:34:45 <SanMehat> i dont want the info to be hard to find.
Dec 10 03:35:01 <Disconnect> no, RyeBrye was annoying. the bot was minorly misconfigured (flood protection/abuse didn't kick in, defaults were unreasonable)
Dec 10 03:35:20 <michaelnovakjr__> you won't let it go
Dec 10 03:35:31 <SanMehat> well *I* found the bot annoying.
Dec 10 03:35:45 <grey-> I found the bot's snark annoying.
Dec 10 03:35:46 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: so far all you've said is "omg its a bot". want to follow up with actual reasoning?
Dec 10 03:36:00 <Disconnect> grey-: ..snark?
Dec 10 03:36:12 <grey-> Disconnect: when addressed it would shoot back random quips.
Dec 10 03:36:14 <michaelnovakjr__> Disconnect: they aren't appreciated because people abuse them and that is annyoing
Dec 10 03:36:21 <grey-> Disconnect: url stuff is useful.
Dec 10 03:36:26 <Disconnect> (oh. 2 misconfigurations - poorly thought out name caused extra triggers)
Dec 10 03:36:31 <grey-> robots don't have a good sense of comedy though. ;)
Dec 10 03:36:32 <Rob-cs> i think you should make a new bot that kicks itself out of the channel, saving everyone else from future conversations like this.
Dec 10 03:36:37 <Disconnect> grey-: different bot
Dec 10 03:36:42 <Disconnect> i suspect anyway
Dec 10 03:36:44 <grey-> ah
Dec 10 03:36:50 <grey-> I'm thinking of err Android I think it was called?
Dec 10 03:37:05 <michaelnovakjr__> yea that was it
Dec 10 03:38:15 <Disconnect> grey-: um. sorry, but that one was incapable of "random quips"
Dec 10 03:38:22 <grey-> hmmm
Dec 10 03:38:31 <grey-> there was something it'd say whenever someone said Android: iirc
Dec 10 03:38:37 <michaelnovakjr__> this conversation is getting old
Dec 10 03:38:39 <grey-> maybe they were static quips.
Dec 10 03:38:42 <Disconnect> when they were busy banning infobot (answered when not addressed, full of useless info, most importantly public logs) i offered to set up a bot that would not do any of those things. (and spent some time doing so) then RyeBrye abused it, michaelnovakjr peed himself and SanMehat  banned it. (instead of warning ryebrye, which would have seemed like a correct answer)
Dec 10 03:38:45 <grey-> or pseudorandom? ;)
Dec 10 03:38:49 <Disconnect> nope
Dec 10 03:38:57 <SanMehat> Disconnect: thanks for the update
Dec 10 03:39:07 <grey-> argh vaccuum o'clock
Dec 10 03:39:09 <SanMehat> I banned it because it was spamming the channel
Dec 10 03:39:13 <grey-> it's like they don't want me to stay late working.
Dec 10 03:39:16 <michaelnovakjr__> like Disconnect is
Dec 10 03:39:17 * grey- whips out the earplugs.
Dec 10 03:39:22 * Disconnect even spent a few hours going through all the logs finding useful info from infobot
Dec 10 03:39:56 <Disconnect> SanMehat: s/foo/bar/ wasn't spam but "bot: foo" "bot: ok ryebye, foo" is spam? ......oookkkkk..
Dec 10 03:40:10 <SanMehat> dude
Dec 10 03:40:14 <SanMehat> what the hell is wrong with you?
Dec 10 03:40:17 <SanMehat> lol
Dec 10 03:40:28 <SanMehat> i got code to write.. peace
Dec 10 03:40:34 <Rob-cs> laterz
Dec 10 03:40:43 <grey-> l8z
Dec 10 03:40:44 * Disconnect has already noted - repeatedly - that it was misconfigured (flood protection) and poorly named (shouldn't be listening/reacting to anything starting with 'android' in #android..)
Dec 10 03:41:41 * grey- now reflashes his own g1 to the latest and greatest.
Dec 10 03:41:45 <grey-> wheez.
Dec 10 03:41:49 <Disconnect> spend a day here answering questions and giving all the same urls and info over and over, you'll feel differently. (esp if you give those stupid numeric thread links, or the 800-char google groups ones)
Dec 10 03:42:04 <grey-> *nod* lambdabots and such are useful.
Dec 10 03:42:50 <Disconnect> course, we could apply his rule everywhere - if he gets spam he had better cancel his email account...
Dec 10 03:43:08 <grey-> oh, sign me up for that one.
Dec 10 03:43:18 * grey- just went through 2000 messages today on his work email account.
Dec 10 03:43:20 <grey-> h8 emailz.
Dec 10 03:46:30 <jsharkey> Disconnect: newbs shouldnt be coming in here to ask questions--they should be searching first
Dec 10 03:46:36 <jsharkey> *imho
Dec 10 03:46:46 <michaelnovakjr__> jsharkey: agreed
Dec 10 03:46:51 <Disconnect> SanMehat: seriously. take a day and answer the questions in here. its exactly the sort of thing that infobots (and descendents) are made for. (or just think back to the last uninvolved manager/boss you had who told you "you don't need {whatever} to do your job, just cuz it makes it easier"..)
Dec 10 03:46:55 <michaelnovakjr__> they expect people to do the looking up for them
Dec 10 03:47:34 <Disconnect> jsharkey: so you're automatically assuming anyone with a question is a newb? heh.
Dec 10 03:47:52 <michaelnovakjr__> Disconnect: 99% of the questions can be found with a simple google search
Dec 10 03:47:56 <jsharkey> Disconnect: i choose to just ignore certain questions
Dec 10 03:48:27 <jsharkey> and plenty i just dont know the answer to  ;)
Dec 10 03:48:34 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr: ok. what is the query (this morning, since i think someone finally C&P it) that leads to adp1 shipping rates?
Dec 10 03:48:56 * JesusFreke is tired of the discussion
Dec 10 03:49:01 <michaelnovakjr__> really, will you just drop it
Dec 10 03:49:12 <michaelnovakjr__> you are spamming the channel with this crap now
Dec 10 03:49:44 <jsharkey> well, otoh, thats maybe why there is -dev channel  ;)
Dec 10 03:49:45 <Disconnect> you have a very confused idea of what 'spam' is apparantly.
Dec 10 03:50:00 <michaelnovakjr__> no, i consider you spam
Dec 10 03:51:16 <Disconnect> then you are seriously confused. (look, i can do it too! "i consider you ionic")
Dec 10 03:51:59 <grey-> oh neat: anyone messed around with this much?
Dec 10 03:51:59 <grey-> http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-369760.html
Dec 10 03:52:08 <grey-> (my friend keeps asking me about msm hacking)
Dec 10 03:52:21 <Disconnect> yep
Dec 10 03:52:28 <andyross> ionic?
Dec 10 03:52:37 <offby1`> "Mainstream Media" hacking? :-)
Dec 10 03:53:17 <grey-> offby1`: the qualcomm radio/cpu chipset running OKL4.
Dec 10 03:53:55 <Disconnect> grey-: istr we almost bricked a device that way.
Dec 10 03:54:16 <grey-> Disconnect: not entirely unsurprising...
Dec 10 03:54:21 <grey-> Disconnect: still worth exploring.
Dec 10 03:54:40 <grey-> I assume when he says unlocked he means simunlocked?
Dec 10 03:54:47 <Disconnect> no security lock
Dec 10 03:54:58 <Disconnect> different. sim unlock just allows a different gsm network id
Dec 10 03:55:03 <grey-> ah.
Dec 10 03:55:10 <grey-> so this unlock is acheived how then?
Dec 10 03:55:14 <grey-> only with an adp1?
Dec 10 03:55:21 <Disconnect> the adp1 isn't radio unlocked
Dec 10 03:56:03 <Disconnect> simunlock has basically nothing to do with this (except as i recall you can very easily sim-unlock it if you get it security unlocked)
Dec 10 03:56:24 <grey-> herm, I guess I'm not sure what security-unlock is; or rather how it's done.
Dec 10 03:56:44 <pfft> $ cd mydroid/frameworks/
Dec 10 03:56:48 <pfft> $ git log
Dec 10 03:56:49 <pfft> fatal: Not a git repository
Dec 10 03:57:00 <pfft> huh?
Dec 10 03:57:23 <Disconnect> keep going down one more level iirc
Dec 10 03:57:44 <pfft> Disconnect: thanks
Dec 10 03:58:29 * Disconnect doesn't know why he answered, since "newb questions don't belong here" and evidently that includes anything you have to ask about.
Dec 10 03:58:43 <Disconnect> general you, not you specifically pfft
Dec 10 03:59:23 <grey-> huh those keypresses don't seem to do the trick for getting into the radio bootloader. ;-/
Dec 10 04:00:19 <Disconnect> you've got a retail device. its locked.
Dec 10 04:00:46 <Disconnect> note the date on that post.
Dec 10 04:01:03 <grey-> yeah.
Dec 10 04:01:04 <grey-> bummer.
Dec 10 04:01:36 <grey-> seems like that could be useful.
Dec 10 04:01:41 <grey-> say, for people with rc30 as shipped.
Dec 10 04:02:20 <grey-> *sigh*
Dec 10 04:02:22 <grey-> will poke more later.
Dec 10 04:02:30 <grey-> it's after eight and I haven't left my desk since lunch.
Dec 10 04:14:01 <RyeBrye> Disconnect:  you really need to STFU about me being the only one who was abusing your bot. This simply wasn't the case.
Dec 10 04:14:12 <RyeBrye> Seriously, get over it
Dec 10 04:14:58 <Disconnect> want to see the logs? the other guy had 2 lines. you had ~15. "seriously"
Dec 10 04:18:26 * RyeBrye will pipe down now... He's had 3 hours of sleep in the past 48 hours
Dec 10 04:18:30 <michaelnovakjr__> RyeBrye: ignore works
Dec 10 04:18:37 <grey-> yeah, irc ftw.
Dec 10 04:18:44 <grey-> anyway I'm going to gtfo at this point.
Dec 10 04:18:47 <RyeBrye> If only ignore took grep args :)
Dec 10 04:18:51 <grey-> dinner + sleep
Dec 10 04:18:57 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Dec 10 04:19:00 <grey-> RyeBrye: need a better irc client maybe. ;)
Dec 10 04:19:24 <RyeBrye> I don't like to ignore people outright - but if I could grep "root on G1" and ignore that line, or something ;)
Dec 10 04:19:28 * geist wonders if this is the same grey- i'm thinking of
Dec 10 04:19:45 <grey-> geist: it is, howdy.
Dec 10 04:19:48 <geist> sup
Dec 10 04:19:58 <grey-> geist: slaving away for the pr0n lords.
Dec 10 04:20:02 <geist> aww yeah
Dec 10 04:20:07 <geist> bow chicka bow bow
Dec 10 04:20:07 <grey-> geist: how about you?  You were at palm last I checked.
Dec 10 04:20:10 <Disconnect> ..or if we had some sort of automaton, designed solely to answer questions repeatedly all day. wow, wouldn't that be helpful. we could just point people in the right direction and let them learn.
Dec 10 04:20:34 <geist> yah
Dec 10 04:21:06 <grey-> geist: product released that I should be keeping an eye out on?
Dec 10 04:21:15 <grey-> or keep my eyes peeled for the future?
Dec 10 04:21:28 * geist does not comment
Dec 10 04:21:31 <grey-> hehe
Dec 10 04:21:45 <grey-> geist: well channel-related; I'll say the sidekicks are a lot snappier than g1. ;)
Dec 10 04:21:57 <grey-> geist: so errr, pat yourself on the back for past work. ;)
Dec 10 04:22:34 <grey-> geist: I've got one friend @ danger still; oh man I don't envy them.
Dec 10 04:22:57 <grey-> geist: sounds like they'll maybe squeeze out a 3g sk; and then... ?  zunephone?  suckage?  Who knows.
Dec 10 04:23:26 <grey-> geist: another friend was called by a headhunter looking for a netbsd person to hire there *headdesk*
Dec 10 04:23:46 <kennyyu> hi there, i've manually built android from source. may i know what is the corresponding SDK directory of my built?
Dec 10 04:23:59 <Hiro2> when is google finally going to let us save apps on the storage card? I'm getting dropped calls now and gmail synch is lagging
Dec 10 04:24:14 <Damm> Hiro2, try rebooting your phone now and then.
Dec 10 04:24:16 <geist> hah, yeah
Dec 10 04:24:23 <geist> danger was moving towards netbsd at some point
Dec 10 04:24:28 <Hiro2> Damm: are you having the same issue?
Dec 10 04:24:32 <geist> surprising they're still looking, being owned by MSFT now
Dec 10 04:24:43 <Hiro2> Damm: or does that close out of all the apps?
Dec 10 04:24:54 <grey-> geist: the only thing that makes sense, is I guess my friend was saying post-MSFT buyout, they went on a code auditing witchunt.
Dec 10 04:25:07 <kennyyu> sorry, but where is the SDK directory in my built from the source?
Dec 10 04:25:12 <Damm> Hiro2, nope i'm not... but you prolly have too much installed or running
Dec 10 04:25:14 <grey-> geist: so, bsd licensed stuff would be more ideal for them to replace whatever was FSF sounding.
Dec 10 04:25:17 <Damm> rebooting should be the first step you do
Dec 10 04:25:24 <Hiro2> I have 34MB of free, not enough?
Dec 10 04:25:44 <grey-> kennyyu: dunno, maybe ask in #android-dev.
Dec 10 04:25:48 * Damm shrugs
Dec 10 04:25:50 <Damm> fairly low to me
Dec 10 04:26:01 <kennyyu> grey-: :) alright
Dec 10 04:26:09 <grey-> kennyyu: good luck! (:
Dec 10 04:26:22 <Hiro2> Damm: wil they let us save app on storage anytime soon?
Dec 10 04:26:36 <kennyyu> :)
Dec 10 04:26:56 <Damm> Hiro2, sometime soon/later/dunno
Dec 10 04:27:11 <Damm> Hiro2, it's not just Google it's really T-Mobile pushing out the OTA
Dec 10 04:27:49 <grey-> geist: you're still in the bay area though I take it?
Dec 10 04:28:07 <grey-> oh wow
Dec 10 04:28:23 <SanMehat> back.
Dec 10 04:28:44 <geist> absolutely
Dec 10 04:28:51 <geist> down in sunnyvale town, dog
Dec 10 04:28:53 <SanMehat> geist: how goes
Dec 10 04:29:00 <Hiro2> OTA?
Dec 10 04:29:08 <geist> it's teh SanMehat
Dec 10 04:29:37 <grey-> geist: aye, I moved from santa cruz to oakland.
Dec 10 04:29:50 <grey-> geist: eventually I did actually meet a few of the #sfrivethead peoples.
Dec 10 04:30:15 <grey-> geist: I see evil-bill pretty regularly especially now that he's been coming to noisebridge a lot [hackerspace in SF]
Dec 10 04:30:31 <grey-> geist: and ahd/andrew and I became good friends when I was still in santa cruz.
Dec 10 04:30:44 <grey-> though I don't think we'd made the connection we were in the same irc channel until much later.
Dec 10 04:30:50 <geist> yeah, he's a good guy. haven't seen him in a while
Dec 10 04:30:55 <grey-> geist: same for ioerror.
Dec 10 04:31:01 <geist> yah
Dec 10 04:31:11 <grey-> geist: you should come up to noisebridge one of these days.  Dunno how often you make it to SF though.
Dec 10 04:31:20 <geist> not too much, though i should
Dec 10 04:31:36 <SanMehat> geist: sup mang
Dec 10 04:31:44 <grey-> geist: cool, well good to see you around.
Dec 10 04:31:52 <grey-> now, for real, I'm going to leave my desk and get dinner.
Dec 10 04:31:56 <grey-> and then rest+sleep.
Dec 10 04:32:00 <SanMehat> grey-: you're in the area too? cool
Dec 10 04:32:03 <grey-> oh wait, coworker bringing me emergency.
Dec 10 04:32:11 <grey-> SanMehat: I work in SF, live in oakland these days.
Dec 10 04:32:21 <grey-> errr emergen-c
Dec 10 04:32:26 <grey-> no more emergencies tonight.
Dec 10 04:32:28 <grey-> *sigh*
Dec 10 04:32:30 <SanMehat> i work in mtv.. live in sf
Dec 10 04:32:41 <grey-> SanMehat: ah, fun commute. ;-/
Dec 10 04:32:46 <SanMehat> uhg
Dec 10 04:32:47 <SanMehat> ugh
Dec 10 04:32:56 <grey-> SanMehat: most of my googler friends are in secops; and at least one of them is working in the SF office now.
Dec 10 04:33:06 <SanMehat> ah cool. i know some of the secops folks
Dec 10 04:33:20 <RyeBrye> secops?
Dec 10 04:33:22 <grey-> pretty good people in...
Dec 10 04:34:16 <RyeBrye> s/c/x/
Dec 10 04:36:48 <grey-> errr in that dept.
Dec 10 04:36:54 <grey-> sadly some of them have scattered to the wind
Dec 10 04:36:59 <grey-> but still some really sharp guys.
Dec 10 04:37:31 <pfft> It looks like there are no open changes more than 7 days old
Dec 10 04:37:40 <Damm> pfft, nope
Dec 10 04:37:50 <Damm> i'm actually saddened by the public tree
Dec 10 04:39:26 <pfft> Damm: I'm looking here http://review.source.android.com/open?offset=100&limit=100
Dec 10 04:39:35 <pfft> Damm: where is the correct place to look
Dec 10 04:39:56 <Damm> pfft, that or do a repo sync and do git log
Dec 10 04:39:59 <Damm> but yep
Dec 10 04:40:34 <pfft> Damm: git log does not show changes awaiting approval that I know of ... does it?
Dec 10 04:40:51 <Damm> no it does not
Dec 10 04:40:54 <Damm> but it shows changes done
Dec 10 04:41:32 <pfft> Damm: I guess i'm trying to find the list of open changes awaiting review ... any ideas where would be the correct place to look for that?
Dec 10 04:41:59 <Damm> pfft, you are at the right spot
Dec 10 04:42:10 <Leeds> it has been said that the public tree will become the real tree sometime around new year
Dec 10 04:42:26 <Damm> when I go here... I see http://review.source.android.com/ lots of open changes
Dec 10 04:43:01 <pfft> Damm: when i go there I only see my own
Dec 10 04:43:19 <Damm> http://review.source.android.com/3123
Dec 10 04:43:27 <Damm> pfft, i'm not signed in
Dec 10 04:44:52 <Smashcat> Hello, is anyone here using the Android plugin for Eclipse? I've just started and wondered if there's any way to set a default way to run a project. As the moment, every time I click "Run" it throws up a "Run As" box and I have to select "Android Application" from a list
Dec 10 04:45:18 <Smashcat> There doesn't seem to be any config options for how to run a project in Eclipse.
Dec 10 04:55:47 <pfft> Damm: sorry to see your change got turned down :-(
Dec 10 04:56:23 <Damm> pfft, not my change
Dec 10 04:56:44 <pfft> Damm: oh ... why were you pointing me to that one?
Dec 10 05:02:27 <Damm> pfft, it was funny to see that hit the main code.
Dec 10 05:02:31 <Damm> that's all
Dec 10 05:03:03 <pfft> Damm: It looks like it was not merged ... im confused ... it hit the code?
Dec 10 05:03:29 <Damm> pfft, it was denied due to busybox not being included by default nor iptables in RC30
Dec 10 05:04:42 <pfft> Damm: it looks like many changes are getting merged within 24 hours ... I'm impressed
Dec 10 05:04:49 <bparker06> Smashcat: I too am annoying to all hell by that little box
Dec 10 05:04:54 <bparker06> annoyed*
Dec 10 05:05:29 <Smashcat> Heh, yeah - there seems no way at all to set a default "Run Type". It's strainge
Dec 10 05:05:34 <Smashcat> *strange
Dec 10 05:06:18 <jbq_> If you think that there are a lot of changes, wait until the entire Android team at Google works directly in git!
Dec 10 05:06:37 * unix_infidel wonders what the Android team at google currently uses ;-P
Dec 10 05:06:47 <swetland> perforce
Dec 10 05:06:59 <swetland> we're working on transitioning the project entirely to the git based system
Dec 10 05:06:59 <simon> yeah
Dec 10 05:07:17 <swetland> four years of development legacy has, at times, put some roadblocks in place, but we're making good progress
Dec 10 05:07:58 <simon> I wonder what would be the easiest way to get a developer version shipped to Denmark.
Dec 10 05:08:01 <Leeds> 4 years?
Dec 10 05:08:30 <swetland> Android started in December of 2004
Dec 10 05:08:40 <Leeds> simon: either get someone in the US to send you one and hope you don't get caught for VAT on the way in, or get a regular one and 'upgrade' it to a devphone
Dec 10 05:08:49 <Leeds> swetland: I hope you're having a party then :-D
Dec 10 05:09:10 <simon> Leeds, 'regular' would be a vendor-locked copy from t-mobile in germany?
Dec 10 05:09:19 <Leeds> or somewhere else in Europe, yes
Dec 10 05:09:30 <jsharkey> is there vat on gifts?
Dec 10 05:09:37 <swetland> Damm: for add-on like busybox and assorted extra goodies, it would be easy for people to host android-build-system compatible git repositories, that could be added to builds by dropping a reference in local-manifest.xml
Dec 10 05:10:29 <simon> jsharkey, if they cost a lot of money, yes.
Dec 10 05:10:47 <Damm> swetland, yes.. but does google want to bundle busybox and iptables in post RC30 releases?
Dec 10 05:10:51 <Damm> that's the question
Dec 10 05:10:54 <Damm> s/google/T-Mobile
Dec 10 05:10:56 <Leeds> jsharkey: I think there is officially VAT on anything over a certain value threshold... there may be loopholes for things like trade samples, second-hand things, etc.
Dec 10 05:10:57 <swetland> The "default" core platform is intended to stay as small as possible, and in particular avoid dependencies on GPL'd components outside of the kernel, but there's no reason a couple of repositories couldn't be setup to allow folks who want it to pull in a bunch of extra stuff
Dec 10 05:11:38 <swetland> the system is actually intended to be operable without toolbox or ash (though we've got one or two things that cheat and depend on them)
Dec 10 05:12:12 <swetland> iptables (or equivalent functionality in a more compatibly licensed library) is something I'd hope to see as part of future work on the connection manager
Dec 10 05:12:27 <Damm> there's a connection manager?
Dec 10 05:12:43 <swetland> yeah, framework level stuff that manages wifi vs umts, etc
Dec 10 05:13:00 <Damm> ah
Dec 10 05:13:16 <swetland> it's pretty simple-minded in 1.0, but it would be nice to improve it to handle multiple interfaces better, simultaneous interfaces, routing/translation/etc
Dec 10 05:13:50 <Leeds> swetland: is that the stuff which automatically connects to any wifi network it's connected to before?
Dec 10 05:14:14 <swetland> I believe so -- I wasn't closely involved in it, so I don't know all the details/limitations.
Dec 10 05:14:34 <Leeds> that behaviour is rather annoying :-(
Dec 10 05:15:03 <jbq_> That's why it can be made better :)
Dec 10 05:15:13 <swetland> I don't see any reason why well-integrated tethering support, etc, couldn't be added to the platform (I certainly want it).  It'll have to be well integrated and reasonably featurized (some oems/carriers will want to disable it for whatever silly reason)
Dec 10 05:21:34 <snadge> we've had excellent progress on that, considering some of the factors which you've mentioned
Dec 10 05:21:57 <snadge> whilst tetherbot is crude, it does allow web browsing and ssh tunneling
Dec 10 05:22:31 <pfft> swetland: solca got wifi on the n810 working ... and we submitted a patch ... thanks for your advice yesterday on it
Dec 10 05:22:33 <swetland> I've done it over usb ethernet (needs a bit of kernel hacking and a script to setup iptables)
Dec 10 05:22:42 <swetland> pfft: awesome, thank you
Dec 10 05:22:44 <snadge> and i believe someone has enabled nat via wifi.. but not bluetooth or usb.. again theres limited api support for that, im assuming due to time constaints and low priority
Dec 10 05:23:05 <swetland> a bunch of bt work is ongoing, including moving it over to the highspeed uart
Dec 10 05:23:18 <swetland> which will remove the 115kbps transport cap
Dec 10 05:23:19 <jbq> pfft: I'm thinking that the wifi fix might have been the same one that I hit on the dream.
Dec 10 05:23:33 <swetland> some property with a bogus name?
Dec 10 05:23:36 <jbq> yeah
Dec 10 05:23:45 <jbq> (well, the crash that prompted the fix)
Dec 10 05:23:53 <swetland> I do disagree with whoever decided that bad property names shold be a fatal exception
Dec 10 05:23:56 <pfft> jbq: yes, i hope it helps you.
Dec 10 05:24:11 <jbq> I'll verify it tomorrow.
Dec 10 05:24:12 <swetland> at least for read
Dec 10 05:24:37 <jbq> swetland: good point. it should be easy to just fail the read when the property is too long.
Dec 10 05:24:47 <jbq> (with appropriate logging, of course)
Dec 10 05:25:10 <swetland> jbq: honestly I think silent is fine
Dec 10 05:25:21 <swetland> does libc complain when you lookup a nonexistent environment variable?
Dec 10 05:25:28 <jbq> good point.
Dec 10 05:27:52 <foonixx> Hi Everyone.  Does anyone know how the values for Config.* get set?  E.g. Config.DEBUG, or Config.RELEASE, or Config.LOGV.  I'm trying to find out what compile-time build flags control those statics.
Dec 10 05:29:32 <jbq> foonixx: at the moment they're hardcoded and don't change.
Dec 10 05:29:39 <swetland> bulgaria% find . -name Config.java
Dec 10 05:29:44 <swetland> ./frameworks/base/core/java/android/util/Config.java
Dec 10 05:31:40 <foonixx> jbq: Even the difference between DEBUG and RELEASE?  The javadoc for that class calls out that they'll change between debug and release.
Dec 10 05:32:11 * eggy is considering geting a devphone
Dec 10 05:33:24 <snadge> i would buy a dev phone.. except i just paid $550 US for a t-mobile one
Dec 10 05:33:36 <eggy> o.O
Dec 10 05:33:36 <jbq> they might change, but at the moment the android setup checks backward compatibility too aggressively and prevent us from changing them.
Dec 10 05:33:44 <snadge> thankfully its RC28, so that shouldn't make any difference
Dec 10 05:34:03 <eggy> $550?
Dec 10 05:34:06 <eggy> seehs
Dec 10 05:34:08 <snadge> i like the artwork on the developer g1 case though
Dec 10 05:34:34 <snadge> eggy: that was from a place called wireless warehouse in manhattan.. unlocked of course
Dec 10 05:34:48 <eggy> ah, unlocked - gottcha
Dec 10 05:34:52 <snadge> which is about how much they were going for on ebay
Dec 10 05:35:34 <snadge> the irritating part about it is.. i had no idea there was going to be a developer version from google, had i known, i would've got that.. i don't like this "no root for you" policy of t-mobiles
Dec 10 05:35:40 <eggy> Thought you could get an unlocked one (before Google offered the devphones) for like $300?
Dec 10 05:36:08 <eggy> that's why, I want a devphone
Dec 10 05:36:27 <eggy> Plus, I don't really feel like switching to T-Mobile :(
Dec 10 05:36:30 <snadge> by the time you add up the shipping costs etc, the dev phone is about the same price as an unlocked g1
Dec 10 05:36:45 <eggy> shipping is free.
Dec 10 05:37:02 <snadge> i thought it was about $149 or something ridiculous like that
Dec 10 05:37:11 <snadge> depending on what country you're in
Dec 10 05:37:12 <eggy> Nope, free in the US
Dec 10 05:37:54 <snadge> thats annoying.. i wonder if i can just buy the new back plate with the pattern on it
Dec 10 05:38:22 <snadge> or at the very least, be able to flash my tmob g1 so that its equivalent to a dev phone
Dec 10 05:38:33 <sparkle> make your own, find a friend with an airbrush kit :)
Dec 10 05:39:05 <snadge> hehe g1 conversion kit
Dec 10 05:39:07 <eggy> devphones are like $400
Dec 10 05:39:08 <eggy> heh
Dec 10 05:39:22 <foonixx> jbq: okay.  thx for the info.  does that mean there is currently no such thing as debug or release flavor builds with android?  it's all the same?
Dec 10 05:39:58 <jbq> At the java level (which is where we have API-checking), it's all the same.
Dec 10 05:40:32 <foonixx> jbq: thx!
Dec 10 05:47:46 <SanMehat> yo
Dec 10 05:48:19 <DarkriftX> yo
Dec 10 05:48:25 <SanMehat> sup man
Dec 10 05:48:49 <pks> why is the G1 camera module so restricted, even the low level code has restricted the fps to 15 only (hard coded), even though there are commented code block implementation stating MAX 30fps and MIN 5 fps?
Dec 10 05:48:52 * DarkriftX pretends he didnt try the yoyo thing and whistles innocently
Dec 10 05:48:58 <unix_infidel> how's our resident newly wed :-P
Dec 10 05:49:50 <DarkriftX> pks: lots of android is like that and supposedly will be fixed piece at a time
Dec 10 05:51:44 <snadge> how do you mount/unmount the usb sharing on g1?
Dec 10 05:51:52 <snadge> simply by plugging in and removing the usb cable?
Dec 10 05:51:53 <DarkriftX> it can be done in settings
Dec 10 05:52:04 <DarkriftX> i do that and it seems to mess it up till reboot
Dec 10 05:52:09 <DarkriftX> (reboot on laptop, not g1)
Dec 10 05:52:59 <pks> DarkriftX : thanks, hope to see the video API in Java layer in next release
Dec 10 05:53:01 <SanMehat> unix_infidel: i'm good :)
Dec 10 05:53:17 <snadge> i cant find the option for sharing/unsharing via usb the storage
Dec 10 05:53:26 <SanMehat> snadge: theres a notification that will pop up when you plug the device into a USB host
Dec 10 05:53:33 <SanMehat> snadge: look in the notification bar
Dec 10 05:53:46 <snadge> yep, clicking on that turns it on.. but the only way i've found to turn it off again, is to physically remove the usb cable
Dec 10 05:53:54 <Leeds> yes, I think that's the only way
Dec 10 05:55:12 <SanMehat> yeah thats the only way
Dec 10 05:55:30 <SanMehat> you could do it programatically i believe
Dec 10 05:56:22 <SanMehat> you could talk to the 'MountService' and if you had the right perms you could call the method to disable ums
Dec 10 05:57:16 <anno^da_> Why cant we answer comments to our apps in the market?
Dec 10 05:57:53 <anno^da_> It is so annoying to see faulty information flying around but it is hard to react if you cant answer the questions directly. :/
Dec 10 05:57:57 <pfft> why I love Java -> "Use StringBuilder instead of StringBuffer when possible" ... change id 5309
Dec 10 05:58:32 <pfft> $ grep -r StringBuffer mydroid/* 2>>/dev/null | wc -l
Dec 10 05:58:33 <pfft> 1711
Dec 10 05:59:37 <Leeds> SanMehat: I guess the people running the market don't have too much to do with the people building the platform?
Dec 10 06:00:09 <SanMehat> Leeds: i'm not sure what you mean
Dec 10 06:00:10 <jbq> Leeds: we know them, they know us, the two groups don't sit far from one another.
Dec 10 06:00:40 <Leeds> oh, good!  I'm used to situation where engineering don't have much to do with operations people :-)
Dec 10 06:02:19 <jbq> somehow separating engineering and operations doesn't sound like a good idea.
Dec 10 06:02:46 <Leeds> it's the way most IT companies work, I think
Dec 10 06:04:36 <DarkriftX> anyone in here work with/on the
Dec 10 06:04:42 <DarkriftX> anyone in here work with/on the OI (open intents) stuff?
Dec 10 06:07:42 <mmitchel> working in a vacuum is common.
Dec 10 06:07:58 <mmitchel> otherwise dilbert would not make us laugh
Dec 10 06:08:43 <Leeds> it's when you get to the point where engineering is completely divorced from any concept of 'product' where things get silly
Dec 10 06:09:31 <sparkle> mmm
Dec 10 06:09:45 <sparkle> ops people end up having to duplicate so much of engineering's skills in order to triage problems
Dec 10 06:10:30 <DarkriftX> IO released a file manager that seems to be the best so far, but you cannot view contents of system folders (like /data) and it would be even better if it could do that (at least on rooted phones)
Dec 10 06:12:28 <unix_infidel> Leeds: if that were true engineers wouldnt be actively engaged in the product even in their off time like you see here.
Dec 10 06:12:35 <unix_infidel> if that were true for Android*
Dec 10 06:13:18 <Leeds> unix_infidel: oh, I've got nothing against the Android engineers - some of them even seem sane! - but the market ops people... maybe not quite so much
Dec 10 06:13:47 <xsdg> Leeds: hmm?
Dec 10 06:14:27 <xsdg> Leeds: to rephrase my question, "what are you talking about?  could you be specific?"
Dec 10 06:14:32 <snadge> is there a way i can install the orienteer app without going through the market place?
Dec 10 06:14:45 <snadge> i have to factory reset my phone to be able to use market place.. because it has the wrong email address in it
Dec 10 06:14:46 <sparkle> hm
Dec 10 06:14:51 <sparkle> get the apk somehow?
Dec 10 06:14:53 <Leeds> xsdg: in particular, with regard to the comments, I think
Dec 10 06:15:19 <Leeds> although I am still fascinated to know how the for-pay stuff is actually going to work
Dec 10 06:15:54 <unix_infidel> Leeds: yea i'm of the opinion tons of people are just sitting on their paid apps and its going to be an influx.
Dec 10 06:15:55 <xsdg> Leeds: we're working on it.  The Market folks don't exactly have infinite time
Dec 10 06:16:04 <unix_infidel> hopefully ew get apps on sdcard before paid apps hit the scene.
Dec 10 06:16:55 <sparkle> i find it fairly ironic
Dec 10 06:17:05 <sparkle> that so few of the apps people seem to be cranking out are coming with source
Dec 10 06:17:16 <Leeds> unix_infidel: I'm... slightly anxious that google are (apparently) running the market, but they have said that the cut from pay-for stuff will be taken by operators, not by Google
Dec 10 06:17:48 <Leeds> sparkle: it's a slice-and-dice thing... is Android a Linux OS which happens to be on a phone, or is it a phone OS which happens to be Linux underneath?
Dec 10 06:17:50 <unix_infidel> ugh, twidroid is taking up a couple megabytes again...
Dec 10 06:17:53 <unix_infidel> not good at all.
Dec 10 06:17:55 <Leeds> s/phone/mobile device/
Dec 10 06:19:01 <snadge> hmm, i cant find the orienteer apk
Dec 10 06:20:29 <JesusFreke> hmm. I have an oldish version of orienteer. not sure if it has been updated since what I have
Dec 10 06:21:17 <sparkle> as shipped, i think it's largely the latter
Dec 10 06:21:30 <sparkle> but many people would prefer the former
Dec 10 06:21:42 <sparkle> i know that's how i've been going on my handset
Dec 10 06:22:57 <Leeds> that *may* change if/when there are more people running it on things other than their day-to-day phones from their operator
Dec 10 06:23:29 <Leeds> looks like a phone, quacks like a phone...
Dec 10 06:23:44 * sparkle nods
Dec 10 06:23:55 <sparkle> i like the diversity, but it's a little schizophrenic
Dec 10 06:24:47 <Leeds> I suspect that java as a platform also has a lot to do with it - if it was more native, or even something like python (please!), it would attract a different sort of developer... the java and FOSS worlds still aren't that close
Dec 10 06:25:24 <Leeds> I would give a lot for a good python->dalvik bridge
Dec 10 06:25:51 <unix_infidel> Leeds: just start cracking on the JNI bridge jython uses.
Dec 10 06:26:01 <swetland> android aims to be a mobile os based on the linux kernel and a number of common open source components.  it does not aim to be linux (at least as desktop users think of it) on a phone
Dec 10 06:26:43 <Leeds> swetland: oh, sure - I'm not arguing with that for a second - just answering sparkle's comment about lack of FOSS stuff on android so far
Dec 10 06:26:44 <swetland> that said, there's no reason one couldn't get a ton of existing unix/linux stuff to run alongside the platform and coexist
Dec 10 06:27:06 <swetland> I think a lot of that is just "new platform"
Dec 10 06:27:23 <swetland> there aren't that many apps period. devices have been for sale for just shy of two months now, etc
Dec 10 06:27:39 <Leeds> unix_infidel: problem is, AIUI, that jython generates java bytecode... it would really need to generate dalvik bytecode, and it would probably be a slightly limited subset of python in the end
Dec 10 06:27:56 <swetland> provided devices sell, additional devices enter the market, the platform grows, I think we'll see more and more software (open and closed) available for it
Dec 10 06:28:57 <Leeds> swetland: I can't speak for sparkle, but I live in Linux, and virtually all the code I use on my desktop/server is open... so Android does feel quite closed at the moment when it comes to apps
Dec 10 06:29:21 <RyeBrye> Leeds: you live in a kernel? sweet
Dec 10 06:29:28 <Leeds> I need to a) (re-)learn Java, and b) crank out a load of little opensource apps :-)
Dec 10 06:29:41 <Leeds> RyeBrye: nope, butter
Dec 10 06:29:48 <RyeBrye> ah :)
Dec 10 06:31:04 <swetland> I also use linux as my primary environment on the desktop.  I don't think of Android as closed though.  I mean there's the source.  Certainly there's a bunch of closed source android apps, but there are all kinds of closed source apps all over the place.  If you don't want 'em, you can ignore 'em
Dec 10 06:32:21 <Leeds> hence "when it comes to apps" - the platform feels plenty open enough :-)
Dec 10 06:34:35 <JJ|Laptop> Leeds: it gets a bit different when you consider that they are trying to block root access
Dec 10 06:34:53 <Leeds> JJ|Laptop: G1!=Android?
Dec 10 06:35:14 <JJ|Laptop> but they are setting a precedant...
Dec 10 06:35:23 <Leeds> with the devphones?  yes, they are
Dec 10 06:35:30 <JesusFreke> heh. I was about to say that. :p
Dec 10 06:35:36 <Leeds> Android the platform is open... G1 the consumer device isn't
Dec 10 06:35:42 <swetland> the platform vs product relationship is something many get confused by and will probably be less confusing when more products have shipped with various different configurations
Dec 10 06:36:31 <iNToIT> It's not all that confusing, people just don't care enough to think about it. they want what they want, how they want it, and reality should bend to their will
Dec 10 06:36:42 <RyeBrye> swetland: the fastboot stuff that you provide to the vendors to help provide a standard interface for systems developers - they are then responsible for integrating it and producing the bootloader... etc. right?
Dec 10 06:36:56 <Leeds> iNToIT: there has been some bad messaging around issue
Dec 10 06:37:01 * geist overdoses on spice, bends space and time
Dec 10 06:37:14 * mmitchel is also a consumer wanting to bend reality
Dec 10 06:37:17 <Leeds> uh, the issue
Dec 10 06:37:18 <swetland> rye: yup. in general OEMs tend to do their own inhouse bootloaders because they integrate with their inhouse factory and test processes
Dec 10 06:37:20 <jbq> geist: o hai!
Dec 10 06:37:30 <RyeBrye> swetland: so if there were more features added to the fastboot - such as a backup util (kind of like a reverse flash_image - perhaps a read_image) - it'd probably not be backported to existing devices
Dec 10 06:37:38 <swetland> so easier to ask them "support this protocol" than to try to provide some kind of universal bootloader that works for everyone
Dec 10 06:37:45 <RyeBrye> swetland: yes, that makes sense.
Dec 10 06:37:55 * geist cries. universal bootloaders are teh futar
Dec 10 06:38:08 <jbq> geist: that's called "linux"
Dec 10 06:38:21 <mmitchel> yes, the boot loader in this case is linux.
Dec 10 06:38:29 <swetland> rye: well I definitely want to keep the base protocol requirements minimal. makes it easy to ask people to implement it.
Dec 10 06:38:58 <swetland> I would not be opposed to having a "standard" readback model defined so that those who choose to implement such a thing could do it in a standard way
Dec 10 06:41:15 <RyeBrye> swetland: makes sense. I'm not the one working tirelessly at building a backup dumping util - ( infernix is ) - but when the Android Dev Phone 2 comes out in X months / Years - I would pee myself I could just do stuff like read_image to make raw backups of the device
Dec 10 06:41:23 * RyeBrye would have to buy adult diapers, obviously
Dec 10 06:42:02 <rwhitby> or not wear pants
Dec 10 06:42:39 <infernix> swetland: heh, the NAND is getting over my head.
Dec 10 06:43:05 <infernix> i might drop a mail to yaffs2 mailinglist to get their idea of what data i *really* need to read in order to get a proper backup (eg the magic 16 bytes)
Dec 10 06:43:24 <swetland> infernix: your in norwegian territory (I didn't do most of the nand work, so I'm a bit fuzzy on it at times)
Dec 10 06:43:29 <swetland> s/your/you're/
Dec 10 06:44:05 <RyeBrye> infernix: I'm impressed by your persistence in this. Once you get this working I think it will make a lot of people happy too - because it would make it extremely easy to do downgrades and test against different SDK's... etc - without having to have a stable full of phones
Dec 10 06:44:17 <swetland> you need the 16 bytes of non-ecc oob data per page.
Dec 10 06:44:30 <infernix> but i'm still rather confused about how the oobsize is reported to be 56. so apart from 40 bytes ecc and 16 bytes extradata, theres 8 more bytes which i can't quite follow. as you pointed out, might be block info for nand chip (erase count etc)
Dec 10 06:44:40 <swetland> I'll bother my officemate (the norwegian in question) and ask if he has any pointers
Dec 10 06:44:47 <swetland> just bad block markers
Dec 10 06:45:13 <infernix> ye old regular nanddump.c from the mtd driver guys assumes full oob can be read but this isnt the case so
Dec 10 06:45:30 <swetland> the msm7k nand controller is really screwy (it's a 512b controller being used to be a 2048b controller in a hacky way), and ends up with a bad block marker (which is 2 bytes wide on 16bit nand) per quarter-page that wya
Dec 10 06:45:47 <Gigawatts> hey guys, thought you might think this was cool http://richd.com/pictures/richd-android1920.jpg
Dec 10 06:46:06 <jbq> heh fun
Dec 10 06:46:15 <swetland> cute
Dec 10 06:46:20 <Gigawatts> i didnt create it, but i did ask the guy to create a larger version (what you see there)
Dec 10 06:46:31 <Gigawatts> as he had previously created a smaller version
Dec 10 06:46:39 <swetland> I'd like to see somebody model the bugbot as a vacuum tube ^^
Dec 10 06:46:54 <Gigawatts> makes a sweet wallpaper :)
Dec 10 06:47:32 <RyeBrye> Gigawatts: yeah, it'd also make a nice android boot screen :)
Dec 10 06:47:40 <RyeBrye> Gigawatts:  (if you cropped it)
Dec 10 06:48:14 <Gigawatts> heres his previous one (smaller) works better as a portable device wallpaper
Dec 10 06:48:18 <Gigawatts> http://richd.com/2007/11/android-logo.html
Dec 10 06:51:41 <jsharkey> oh cool he did varying android icons too, released under CC looks like
Dec 10 06:52:34 <RyeBrye> Those android friends are cool
Dec 10 06:52:50 <RyeBrye> I like the one with the claws http://richd.com/2007/11/android-friends.html
Dec 10 06:53:45 <JesusFreke> heh. cute
Dec 10 06:56:59 <tmzt_> have you guys seen Qi on openmoko? by removing display init and some other parts they were able to speed up booting
Dec 10 06:57:57 <JesusFreke> so.. it just boots to a blank screen? (no display? lol)
Dec 10 06:58:09 <tmzt_> kernel does the init
Dec 10 06:58:19 <tmzt_> on msm it would be mddi and i2c or something
Dec 10 07:00:02 <swetland> display init is not a significant issue
Dec 10 07:00:10 <swetland> (for G1)
Dec 10 07:01:27 <swetland> the kernel itself takes under a second to get initialized and launch init.  htc bl takes ~4 seconds to get the kernel booted and the kernel ends up waiting for the radio firmware for ~5 seconds (radio firmware owns clock control)
Dec 10 07:01:56 <tmzt_> a9 clock is needed for even arm11 cpu clock? or just io
Dec 10 07:03:14 <swetland> a11 cpu clock is independent
Dec 10 07:03:33 <swetland> but there's only one peripheral clock control block and it has a ton of read-modify-write style registers
Dec 10 07:03:51 <swetland> so to avoid the cpus stepping on each other, the a11 requests peripheral clock changes from the a9
Dec 10 07:04:21 <swetland> and various drivers need to enable/configure their clocks
Dec 10 07:04:55 <swetland> so in early boot when the first driver that needs a clock tries to clk_enable() or whatever, we stall out until AMSS finishes booting far enough to handle the proc_comm request
Dec 10 07:05:16 <xsdg> btw, for you folks who want that new car smell again (or something)
Dec 10 07:05:20 <xsdg> export PS1='C:${PWD//\/\\\}> '
Dec 10 07:05:54 <geist> woot proc_comm
Dec 10 07:06:07 <sparkle> eww.
Dec 10 07:06:11 <swetland> geist: don't encourage them
Dec 10 07:06:31 <geist> er
Dec 10 07:06:34 <geist> boo proc_comm
Dec 10 07:06:42 <tmzt_> I guess Qi needs mmc unless you only wanted it to boot from nand (but let's assume this was dev device only), so this could be a problem if msm_sdcc needs proc_comm (and I think it does)
Dec 10 07:07:20 <swetland> yup
Dec 10 07:07:27 <swetland> both for clock and power control
Dec 10 07:07:31 <swetland> a9 owns the pmic
Dec 10 07:07:36 <DarkriftX> anyone who wants a very large 3d android wallpaper: http://richd.com/pictures/richd-android1920.jpg
Dec 10 07:07:57 <DarkriftX> this richd guy made that image and an android user from my site emailed him asking for a bigger version. he replied today with that
Dec 10 07:08:44 <jsharkey> gah /me shakes fist at mixing adapters and considers emailing romain  :/
Dec 10 07:09:00 <xsdg> DarkriftX: note that the stylized android logo is sort of off-limits; it's trademarked to Google
Dec 10 07:09:18 <xsdg> (whereas the green droid is creative commons, iirc)
Dec 10 07:09:24 <DarkriftX> i didnt make it
Dec 10 07:09:26 <infernix> swetland: one more on fastboot flashing. you said that system and data are 2k page +64 bytes oob. but how does flashboot then handle flashing of recovery.img and boot.img which do not consist of 2k page +64 byte oob? there are separate code paths for both types?
Dec 10 07:09:30 <DarkriftX> i actually cut the whole thing down
Dec 10 07:09:47 <DarkriftX> http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=13&t=209&p=598&rb_v=viewtopic#p598  <--- my version on second post :)
Dec 10 07:09:48 <xsdg> DarkriftX: could you pass that along to the person who made it?
Dec 10 07:09:59 <DarkriftX> i dont know his email
Dec 10 07:10:04 <DarkriftX> the person who posted it can though
Dec 10 07:10:08 <DarkriftX> Gigawatts: you still here?
Dec 10 07:11:31 <swetland> separate code paths
Dec 10 07:11:35 <DarkriftX> i personally do not like the android font :S
Dec 10 07:11:40 <swetland> boot/recovery are just 2k blocks. no oobdata
Dec 10 07:11:44 <DarkriftX> i however love the "bugdroid"
Dec 10 07:11:55 <DarkriftX> especially when its 3d and shiny :)
Dec 10 07:13:15 <swetland> infernix: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/bootloader/legacy.git;a=blob;f=usbloader/usbloader.c
Dec 10 07:13:36 <tmzt_> that is this fastboot?
Dec 10 07:13:50 <tmzt_> (what they are calling fastboot)
Dec 10 07:14:10 <swetland> that's the device side implementation of fastboot we use on SURF
Dec 10 07:14:31 <infernix> 445         if(!strcmp(ptn->name,"boot") || !strcmp(ptn->name,"recovery")) {
Dec 10 07:14:31 <infernix>  446             if(memcmp((void*) kernel_addr, BOOT_MAGIC, BOOT_MAGIC_SIZE)) {
Dec 10 07:14:41 <tmzt_> halibut version?
Dec 10 07:14:54 <swetland> yah
Dec 10 07:14:56 <infernix>  465         if(!strcmp(ptn->name,"system") || !strcmp(ptn->name,"userdata")) {
Dec 10 07:14:57 <infernix>  466             extra = 64;
Dec 10 07:15:02 <infernix> tadaa
Dec 10 07:15:08 * geist looks around for any variables named l
Dec 10 07:15:10 <infernix> great. thanks
Dec 10 07:15:15 <geist> any u4s?
Dec 10 07:15:44 <geist> holy crap that's a simple protocol
Dec 10 07:15:56 <swetland> yes
Dec 10 07:16:28 <geist> i designed this 3 layer multithreaded windowing stream based protocol to do basically the same thing
Dec 10 07:16:33 <tmzt_> this passes the nv vars and everything else in ATAGs that anrdoid kernel needs?
Dec 10 07:16:41 <swetland> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/bootloader/legacy.git;a=blob_plain;f=fastboot_protocol.txt
Dec 10 07:16:51 <swetland> tmzt: yup
Dec 10 07:17:03 <geist> oh oh, this isn't ADB
Dec 10 07:17:06 <geist> this is a simple thing
Dec 10 07:17:08 <infernix> swetland: so what happens if the first block of the boot or recovery NAND break down?
Dec 10 07:17:20 <swetland> infernix: skip to the next
Dec 10 07:17:37 <swetland> both the raw partitions and yaffs simply ignore and skip over bad blocks
Dec 10 07:18:39 <swetland> tmzt: all the android-msm kernel really wants is some atags telling it where the partitions are and a reasonable cmdline (if one was not compiled in)
Dec 10 07:19:37 <infernix> int flash_write.
Dec 10 07:19:39 * infernix studies
Dec 10 07:20:06 <swetland> I cannot be responsible for brain damage resulting from attempting to understand the nand controller on msm7k
Dec 10 07:20:27 <geist> you head asplode
Dec 10 07:20:43 <geist> oh wait that's the mmc controller
Dec 10 07:20:44 <tmzt_> I think ginge and dcordes (and dzo) are having enough fun with mmc
Dec 10 07:21:08 <swetland> tmzt: still fighting with it on some other htc device?
Dec 10 07:21:22 <infernix> yes
Dec 10 07:21:26 <infernix> on kaiser, sd is not usable
Dec 10 07:21:29 <tmzt_> it appears the patches haven't approved much
Dec 10 07:21:31 <infernix> if it were, android would be on mine
Dec 10 07:21:44 <infernix> it works but with large read/writes, it breaks
Dec 10 07:21:46 <swetland> pain.  took us a loooong time to get it working with help from htc and qualcomm.
Dec 10 07:21:56 <tmzt_> this is non-A
Dec 10 07:22:02 <swetland> wonder if there are 7200 bugs as well
Dec 10 07:22:14 <tmzt_> kaiser/titan/polaris/vogue
Dec 10 07:22:17 <infernix> dzo said we should try PIO only
Dec 10 07:22:18 * swetland nods
Dec 10 07:22:20 <infernix> but well, meh
Dec 10 07:22:38 <swetland> I would definitely get pio working reliably first.
Dec 10 07:22:48 <swetland> we certainly did that. did not have dma for quite a while
Dec 10 07:23:26 <infernix> its difficult to debug on kaiser as long as there is no wifi up
Dec 10 07:23:42 <tmzt_> I think that's what they're doing, but dcordes stuff is still in a patch and not in ltg git as far as I have seen
Dec 10 07:24:04 <infernix> if you have a data sim and a public ip you can do some stuff over ssh
Dec 10 07:24:12 <infernix> which is what i did for a short time
Dec 10 07:24:22 <infernix> but its not really practical
Dec 10 07:30:25 <tmzt_> infernix: is usbnet working now? still only on a devices?
Dec 10 07:30:43 <kalacia> ?
Dec 10 07:30:50 <anno^da_> Does someone know if there is a possibility to override the "charging" LED notification with my own LED notification? When the LED is off and I put my LED notification on it works nicely.
Dec 10 07:30:59 <infernix> tmzt_: i don't know, haven't explored that yet
Dec 10 07:31:45 <tmzt_> swetland: any idea of a way to switch usb function/gadget? this isn't supported by the android kernel yet?
Dec 10 07:31:58 <tmzt_> android-msm
Dec 10 07:33:21 <RyeBrye> The 2.6.27 kernel is going to use usb gadget - and I am hoping Santa delivers us a big fat source drop that lets us run wild with the latest and greatest
Dec 10 07:33:41 <tmzt_> RyeBrye: what's missing?
Dec 10 07:34:08 <tmzt_> RyeBrye: I mean what is it you are talking about in this "source drop"
Dec 10 07:34:11 <RyeBrye> the 2.6.27? not sure - last time I tried to flash and run with it my phone didn't boot - and the advice from swetland was to wait for the next big source drop
Dec 10 07:34:38 <RyeBrye> tmzt_: They have their internal trees still and they have the public trees - they are working to make it all public from what I understand
Dec 10 07:34:42 <swetland> we're still working on getting development migrated from perforce to git
Dec 10 07:34:59 <DarkriftX> fuck
Dec 10 07:35:01 <swetland> there will be a big update (should be before the end of the year) as we sync up the post-1.0 trees
Dec 10 07:35:02 <DarkriftX> newegg is pissing me off
Dec 10 07:35:31 <swetland> and after that, with luck, core platform development will be transitioning to the git based (and publicly visible) infrastructure
Dec 10 07:35:58 <RyeBrye> Things like this make me excited: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=commit;h=c2378f6b69f200df8e605055d7de19c2de33904f
Dec 10 07:36:22 <RyeBrye> not the contents of the link - just the link itself
Dec 10 07:36:31 <swetland> rye: we're not actually working on video encode. we just check stuff like that in to mess with people
Dec 10 07:36:59 <RyeBrye> swetland: Yes, I looked in the code and saw that there are really long methods and then at the end it just says "return 0"
Dec 10 07:37:02 <RyeBrye> ;)
Dec 10 07:37:19 <swetland> 0 is success! valid packet
Dec 10 07:37:52 <RyeBrye> oh wait... it actually did do return 0
Dec 10 07:37:58 <RyeBrye> I was trying to be funnny, but I failed miserably
Dec 10 07:38:00 * RyeBrye returns 1
Dec 10 07:38:24 <tmzt_> ENOTIMPL or similar?
Dec 10 07:38:57 <infernix> swetland: is the H264 HW accelleration code optimized in the G1 production tree? i found it rather slow
Dec 10 07:39:40 <swetland> don't know much about the pv/opencore stuff
Dec 10 07:39:46 <infernix> was also a bit disappointed about the level it could handle
Dec 10 07:39:48 <swetland> but we do use the hw accel for h264 decode
Dec 10 07:40:11 <swetland> and I've seen people crank 2+mbit hvga streams through it without it breaking a sweat
Dec 10 07:40:14 <RyeBrye> I was sad that I couldn't use stuff that I encoded with handbreak's "ipod highres" setting on the G1
Dec 10 07:40:32 <infernix> swetland: well i sure havent, i struggled with 600kbit
Dec 10 07:40:49 <infernix> and all the reports i found indicated that thats about the max it could take
Dec 10 07:41:02 <swetland> what resolution?
Dec 10 07:41:07 <RyeBrye> Well, I'm hopeful that it's video playback performance can improve then
Dec 10 07:41:45 <RyeBrye> Maybe I'll have a reason to get an X-ray, x-ray my chip, figure out which pins on it do TV-out - dremel a connector on the side of my phone, and then spend a few days writing a driver to make it have a functional TV-out
Dec 10 07:42:13 <tmzt_> raphael has it?
Dec 10 07:42:33 <tmzt_> netripper.nl is supposed to have informantion on it
Dec 10 07:42:44 <infernix> swetland: max, 480x360 is it
Dec 10 07:43:03 <Leeds> it would be good to get a clear definition of the best resolution/codec options/bitrates
Dec 10 07:43:27 <RyeBrye> and then submit those to people who make settings profiles for stuff :) I prefer not to think when I'm ripping DVD's to play back on my phone :)
Dec 10 07:43:44 <tmzt_> is the qualcomm audio special files going to be the only way to playback pcm audio?
Dec 10 07:43:47 <infernix> swetland: the official word as far as I could find it on google was that G1 does Baseline 1.3, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264
Dec 10 07:43:51 <tmzt_> will alsa/asoc be supported?
Dec 10 07:44:01 <sparkle> RyeBrye: my friend has a gamma imaging setup, i should run my g1 through
Dec 10 07:44:02 * sparkle laughs
Dec 10 07:44:03 <infernix> which concides nicely with about 600 to 800kbit
Dec 10 07:44:11 <Leeds> exactly
Dec 10 07:44:30 <infernix> but i looked at the h264.c for hw accel and it looked like it wasnt optimized much
Dec 10 07:44:48 <RyeBrye> maybe santa will give us better hardware acceleration in video playback, too
Dec 10 07:45:12 <infernix> i'll explore how fast ffh264 is on the G1 sometime in the future
Dec 10 07:45:22 <RyeBrye> Although - I assume Google is like any other place - and will probably be pretty dead durring the holidays with people taking off for vacation and such
Dec 10 07:45:31 <infernix> or maybe the coreavc guys will drop an apk in the market, they have fast code
Dec 10 07:47:23 <tmzt_> faster than dsp?
Dec 10 07:48:13 <infernix> well
Dec 10 07:48:17 <RyeBrye> I think they typically break through and use the DSP on the hardware they are using - didn't they just tap into the accelerated video playback on winmo phones that HTC wasn't using?
Dec 10 07:48:25 <infernix> they have arm code and their software decoder is the fastest i know of
Dec 10 07:48:42 <infernix> plus they arent limited feature wise, hardware usually is
Dec 10 07:49:27 <infernix> i mean if hardware really can't handle more than baseline 1.3, coreavc arm code could outperform with same or even higher H264 levels
Dec 10 07:49:40 <infernix> for kaiser this holds true but then again kaiser HW acceleration is nonexistant
Dec 10 07:50:27 <infernix> it would have to be native code though. im sure dalvik won't do
Dec 10 07:51:37 <tmzt_> how different is the chip in kaiser? or you mean the gpu part?
Dec 10 07:52:22 <infernix> there are no drivers for that in kaiser land
Dec 10 07:52:27 <infernix> licensing issues
Dec 10 07:52:50 <tmzt_> ok, but there is no access to the dsp either, or the dsp is different?
Dec 10 07:52:51 <infernix> which is why kaiser sucks in a way
Dec 10 07:53:11 <infernix> i don't know
Dec 10 07:53:28 <infernix> check xda wiki :)
Dec 10 07:55:03 <tmzt_> I'm not sure asoc makes sense with proc_comm instead of direct access to the codec, but alsa access to aDSP probably does.  this would be needed for other frameworks (like fso) to be used in a more standard way
Dec 10 07:55:14 <bgupta> ANyone here who knows anything? I ask because I have my first feature request. I would like the keyboard to come into play in the gmail app whenever I am dealing with a long (100+) list of GMAIL labels. Typing should restrict the list...
Dec 10 07:56:09 <bgupta> Actuallly that would be a good item. Where do I post RFEs? http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Brandorr.27s_working_notes
Dec 10 07:56:28 <bgupta> Oops try this insteadhttp://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ
Dec 10 07:56:42 <bgupta> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Brandorr.27s_working_notes
Dec 10 07:57:13 <bgupta> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ Arrg
Dec 10 08:00:48 <DarkriftX> ???
Dec 10 08:01:00 <tauno> where are the installed APKs stored and can I pull them from the device? :)
Dec 10 08:01:08 <DarkriftX>  /data/app i think
Dec 10 08:01:15 <DarkriftX> and yes
Dec 10 08:01:40 <tauno> DDMS does not show anything under data - this is normal?
Dec 10 08:03:10 <RyeBrye> Hell... I want the Gmail app to let me do replies where I'm not top-posting my replies.
Dec 10 08:03:44 <tauno> if I open a shell to the device (adb shell) and go to /data dir, I can't get the dir listing: "opendir failed, Permission denied" - any pointers on how to do it? :)
Dec 10 08:03:46 * RyeBrye will get smacked around like a little bitch if he uses Gmail on his G1 to reply to some mailing lists that are VERY big on only replying to the bottom of the thread - and only including the relevant pieces of the thing you are replying to
Dec 10 08:03:49 <xsdg> RyeBrye: alas, gmail doth suck in certain ways
Dec 10 08:04:21 <xsdg> RyeBrye: I think the answer is "Gmail don't play that.  Use a different MUA"
Dec 10 08:04:42 <RyeBrye> :)
Dec 10 08:04:44 <xsdg> RyeBrye: (where by "Gmail," I don't just mean the android client)
Dec 10 08:08:54 <tauno> bgupta, a thingie for your FAQ: How to get the list of installed APKs? and How to pull an APK from the device? ;)
Dec 10 08:09:49 <xsdg> tauno: ftr, `adb shell pm list packages`
Dec 10 08:10:50 <bgupta> k
Dec 10 08:11:02 <tauno> xsdg, this gets me the packages but not the actual *.apk list
Dec 10 08:13:17 <tauno> ok, pm path <package> get the apk
Dec 10 08:17:07 <Rimdar_Klall> Is there a way to get android to notice it has an SD card inserted?
Dec 10 08:17:34 <Rimdar_Klall> It seems that half the time, my G1 doens't know an SD card is installed, but other times it does.
Dec 10 08:18:32 <Rimdar_Klall> In addition, I am using Rings Extended and Ringdroid to use custom alarm tones, and it worked fine the last couple cays but today has twice made the phone totally reset, as though it had been turned off.
Dec 10 08:18:53 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: pay attention to when your phone is plugged into a computer
Dec 10 08:19:22 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: if it is, you'll need to hit the "USB connected" notification and say "Don't mount" in order to keep using the SD card from the phone
Dec 10 08:19:27 <Rimdar_Klall> It's not plugged in right now nor has it been in the last few times i've powered it on, and this time it's not noticing the SD card but last time it was.
Dec 10 08:19:38 <tauno> hmm.. If I try to adb pull the apk from the phone, then the local file is created but its size is 0 bytes and the adb pull xxx.apk xxx.apk command hangs also
Dec 10 08:19:39 <tauno> grr
Dec 10 08:19:49 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: is the "door" fully closed?
Dec 10 08:19:52 <Rimdar_Klall> door?
Dec 10 08:20:00 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: the one covering the sd slow
Dec 10 08:20:02 <xsdg> "flap" if you will
Dec 10 08:20:07 <Rimdar_Klall> ooh
Dec 10 08:20:09 <Rimdar_Klall> lemme check
Dec 10 08:20:24 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: that actually actuates a switch when it's closed that causes the device to mount the sd card
Dec 10 08:20:32 <xsdg> and when it's opened, the device unmounts it
Dec 10 08:20:40 <sparkle> xsdg: that's not my experience
Dec 10 08:20:49 <xsdg> sparkle: in what sense?
Dec 10 08:21:06 <sparkle> when i've been messing with my g1, i've left the door open, it mounts them just fine when they hit the microswitch on the left side of the card slot
Dec 10 08:21:19 <sparkle> and it doesn't unmount until i actually pop the card out
Dec 10 08:21:33 <Rimdar_Klall> you think it might be loose?
Dec 10 08:21:44 <xsdg> sparkle: by "hit" do you mean momentarily?
Dec 10 08:21:47 <Rimdar_Klall> And what would cause the alarm clock applicaiton to fully crash android?
Dec 10 08:21:56 <xsdg> sparkle: if so, that might be a corner case
Dec 10 08:22:04 <sparkle> i mean - sdcard slots have a microswitch on the left side of the slot
Dec 10 08:22:08 <sparkle> it's engaged by a tab on the card
Dec 10 08:22:09 <xsdg> sparkle: I know
Dec 10 08:22:23 <sparkle> i mean, card goes in, click, it mounts
Dec 10 08:22:33 <sparkle> i don't see any switch mechanism that the slot cover contacts
Dec 10 08:22:35 <Rimdar_Klall> ... where's the SD card?
Dec 10 08:22:38 <sparkle> and honestly i'm not sure what the point would be
Dec 10 08:22:40 <xsdg> sparkle: it's above the slot
Dec 10 08:22:47 <sparkle> i mean - if the card is coming out, it's coming out
Dec 10 08:23:04 <sparkle> ahh
Dec 10 08:23:06 <sparkle> yeah i see
Dec 10 08:23:08 <xsdg> sparkle: yes, but you want to unmount, flush buffers, etc before you can no longer write to the card
Dec 10 08:23:51 * sparkle nods
Dec 10 08:23:55 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: the SD card is under a door/flap that's directly beneath the green button, on the left edge of the "chin"
Dec 10 08:23:56 <sparkle> but it mounts as soon as it goes in
Dec 10 08:24:06 <sparkle> mine does anyway
Dec 10 08:25:01 <sparkle> i wish the whole thing felt a bit more solid
Dec 10 08:25:03 <tauno> ah.. I see.. can't pull apk's that are currently running
Dec 10 08:25:08 <sparkle> but it's better than it could be
Dec 10 08:25:08 <xsdg> sparkle: aah, that's true
Dec 10 08:25:14 <tauno> have to restart the phone and pull them before they are started
Dec 10 08:25:18 <Rimdar_Klall> well, it was definitely clicked in...
Dec 10 08:25:24 <sparkle> my nokia communicators were built like tanks
Dec 10 08:25:25 <xsdg> sparkle: I think that may be a bug or a compromise
Dec 10 08:26:18 <Rimdar_Klall> Does anyone else here have issues with any application not just closing, but actually turning off the screen and reverting you to what I assume is a bootup?
Dec 10 08:26:43 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: do you get the flashing android, or the "T-Mobile G1" logo?
Dec 10 08:26:47 <Rimdar_Klall> yep
Dec 10 08:26:48 <Rimdar_Klall> both
Dec 10 08:26:59 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: your phone may have hardware issues
Dec 10 08:27:13 <Rimdar_Klall> *gasp* No!
Dec 10 08:27:36 <Rimdar_Klall> It was working fine the last couple of days, and it's brad new!
Dec 10 08:27:55 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: are you familiar with how the bathtub curve works?
Dec 10 08:28:10 <xsdg> (and the concept of Mean Time Between Failures)
Dec 10 08:28:51 <Rimdar_Klall> Nope.
Dec 10 08:28:57 <Rimdar_Klall> Sounds fun though.
Dec 10 08:29:30 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: ok, so the bathtub curve basically starts off high, drops until it sits at a minimum for a while, and then rises again at the end
Dec 10 08:29:56 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: and it maps time against likelihood-of-device-to-break
Dec 10 08:30:34 <Leeds> to be honest... how often do you lot (except for development) take your card in and out?
Dec 10 08:30:45 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: basically, what the shape of the curve means is that devices are most likely to break/be broken either very soon after they're manufactured, or a while after they're manufactured (that is, after their useful lifespan)
Dec 10 08:30:52 <xsdg> Leeds: me? never
Dec 10 08:31:10 <Rimdar_Klall> Ah, I see.
Dec 10 08:31:21 <Rimdar_Klall> So if this thing keeps crashing on me, time to take it in to get replaced?
Dec 10 08:31:24 <Leeds> given that it has USB mounting built-in, which was a shareware add-on for my Palm - the only reason to take it in and out is to put a bigger card in when they get cheaper :-)
Dec 10 08:31:53 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: not 100%, but likely given the issues you're having with the SD card as well
Dec 10 08:32:15 <xsdg> Rimdar_Klall: when you said the alarm clock causes the phone to restart, do you mean when the alarm clock goes off?  Does the phone vibrate when the alarm goes off?
Dec 10 08:34:31 * sparkle nods
Dec 10 08:34:38 <sparkle> xsdg, a fellow reliability engineer? ;)
Dec 10 08:34:59 <sparkle> i've explained the bathtub curve so many times
Dec 10 08:35:02 * sparkle laughs
Dec 10 08:35:05 <xsdg> sparkle: haha
Dec 10 08:35:20 <xsdg> sparkle: yeah, not really, but I pretend to know some things about hardware
Dec 10 08:37:01 <snadge> anyone know the trick to getting these aftermarket plastic cases off the g1.. it looks like they just clip on
Dec 10 08:37:57 <snadge> guy at an accessories store set it up for me, when i went to find an atm.. now i need to get my sim card out :P
Dec 10 08:38:01 <Rimdar_Klall> No, I mean I am messing with settings in the alarm clock, just setting up the time or ringtone or whatever
Dec 10 08:40:06 <Rimdar_Klall> anyways, g2g to sleep.
Dec 10 08:51:15 <DarkriftX> i agree, sleep time
Dec 10 08:52:17 <Leeds> at 5pm?
Dec 10 08:52:21 <Leeds> I wish...
Dec 10 08:53:54 <Foxdie> question
Dec 10 08:54:42 <JesusFreke> foxdie, shoot :)
Dec 10 08:54:45 <Foxdie> can't anyone get a full rom dump of a modified RC30 G1 to restore on rootless RC30 G1's using the camera+power button?
Dec 10 08:54:57 <JesusFreke> nope :)
Dec 10 08:55:02 <Foxdie> JesusFreke, why does your name ring so many bells, where have I seen your name before? :)
Dec 10 08:55:15 <JesusFreke> the stock bootloader only accepted signed images
Dec 10 08:55:38 <JesusFreke> hmm. do you mean apart from the Android scene?
Dec 10 08:55:39 <Foxdie> and there's no way to fake-sign a modified RC30 image?
Dec 10 08:55:49 <Leeds> Foxdie: something about the son of god?
Dec 10 08:56:12 <JesusFreke> nope. it's signed with RSA using 2048 bits. translation: not a chance :)
Dec 10 08:56:16 <Foxdie> Leeds, no, something involving a banana ;)
Dec 10 08:56:44 <Foxdie> I know JesusFreke is quite active in the android community, I'm just trying to remember where i've seen his name pop up earlier today
Dec 10 08:56:45 <Leeds> I don't think banananananas are mentioned in the bible
Dec 10 08:57:04 <Foxdie> oh but they are Leeds, its a major conspiracy ;)
Dec 10 08:57:17 <JesusFreke> Foxdie, were you browsing any didgeridoo related sites? hehe
Dec 10 08:57:38 <JesusFreke> about the only other thing I can think of where you might have seen my name
Dec 10 08:58:03 <Foxdie> I'm not sure, its like this wierd deja vu feeling
Dec 10 08:58:05 <Foxdie> oh well
Dec 10 08:59:00 <Foxdie> hmm, how likely is it a brute force attack on the rsa key would work?
Dec 10 08:59:09 <Leeds> not
Dec 10 08:59:12 <Foxdie> Granted I don't know much about this
Dec 10 08:59:30 <JesusFreke> on average it would take something on the order of... millions of years? billions maybe.
Dec 10 08:59:33 <Leeds> in the lifetime of the universe?
Dec 10 08:59:41 <Foxdie> jeez, that bad
Dec 10 08:59:42 <Leeds> unless...
Dec 10 08:59:49 <JesusFreke> yeah. that bad. heh
Dec 10 08:59:55 <Foxdie> so I suppose the only way to do that is to break into HTC
Dec 10 09:00:02 <Leeds> what if we could get a distributed cracking tool on every single android device, working on cracking the key for the G1?
Dec 10 09:00:06 <JesusFreke> social engineering ftw :D
Dec 10 09:00:15 <Leeds> Foxdie: ever been to Taiwan?
Dec 10 09:00:27 <Gary|tp> Leeds: Why would you use the G1?
Dec 10 09:00:36 <Gary|tp> Couldn't you reverse/emulate it on a PC?
Dec 10 09:00:50 <Leeds> yeah, but it would be cooler to crack it on the phone itself
Dec 10 09:00:59 <Foxdie> Leeds, nope, only been to america, france and germany
Dec 10 09:01:04 <Gary|tp> nah. slow as fuck, battery life, etc
Dec 10 09:01:10 <anno^da_> Can someone tell me why the Spinner doesnt react on the paddingRight 10px? http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/287197/layout.jpg
Dec 10 09:01:10 <Leeds> we could destroy millions of batteries in a single strike!
Dec 10 09:01:25 <Gary|tp> I've got a couple quad core 3 GHz CPUs sitting around idle non stop :P
Dec 10 09:01:34 <Foxdie> same here Gary|tp
Dec 10 09:01:55 <Foxdie> infact, there's an 8 core mac pro sat in our cupboard doing diddly squat
Dec 10 09:02:20 <Foxdie> but if its gonna take millions of years to crack, I better get started now ;)
Dec 10 09:02:36 <JesusFreke> sooner started, sooner finished :D
Dec 10 09:04:02 <Foxdie> so I start that going, and then try and find the key to everlasting life
Dec 10 09:04:10 <Foxdie> this is gonna be one busy day
Dec 10 09:04:44 <Leeds> good luck - it'd be useful if you find it
Dec 10 09:05:00 <Leeds> the RSA key, obviously... everlasting life is pointless if I don't have root on my phone
Dec 10 09:05:16 <Gary|tp> I still do not understand how RSA works, tbh. I understand the concept of public/private keys, and how a message can be signed with the private key and checked with a public key...
Dec 10 09:05:29 <Gary|tp> but I don't understand why someone can't reverse the process with the public key.
Dec 10 09:05:35 <Leeds> think of it as two one-way paths
Dec 10 09:06:02 <Leeds> something encrypted (not signed) with one key can only be encrypted with the other key
Dec 10 09:06:16 <Leeds> or signed, whatever :-)
Dec 10 09:07:03 <Gary|tp> Yes, but in mathmatics, 1 + x = 2. x = 2. I guess I just don't understand how they're doing it that it can be verified without being cracked.
Dec 10 09:07:21 <Gary|tp> We know the process, we know 1, why can't we figure out x without brute force?
Dec 10 09:07:24 <JesusFreke> gary, it's based on problems that are really really hard to solve, but easy to check if you've got a correct answer
Dec 10 09:07:46 <Gary|tp> Well from my understanding the only way to crack RSA is brute force?
Dec 10 09:09:26 <Leeds> not quite
Dec 10 09:09:30 <JesusFreke> it basically boils down to having to factor a really really large number
Dec 10 09:09:40 <JesusFreke> I think.
Dec 10 09:09:57 <Leeds> or the other way...
Dec 10 09:10:32 <Leeds> as JesusFreke suggested above.
Dec 10 09:11:02 <JesusFreke> I'm not intimately familiar with the details. my computer security class in college is feeling a bit blurry :D
Dec 10 09:11:54 <Leeds> there is only one sane way to break RSA
Dec 10 09:12:45 <Gary|tp> Brute force is sane! I'm just really really dedicated.
Dec 10 09:13:19 <Leeds> get the keys... somehow, by hook, by crook - get the keys
Dec 10 09:13:27 <JesusFreke> yup
Dec 10 09:13:28 <Foxdie> I don't mind throwing a few flops to the cause if it means rootless RC30 folks can downgrade :)
Dec 10 09:13:30 <tauno> can I see if the G1 uses encryption for calls or I'm talking to an IMSI catcher and encryption is disabled?
Dec 10 09:14:30 <tauno> ..is there a warning displayed in the in-call screen or something?
Dec 10 09:14:49 <Leeds> that's pretty unlikely
Dec 10 09:14:55 <tauno> :/
Dec 10 09:15:06 <Gary|tp> So are updates signed, or encrypted?
Dec 10 09:15:12 <JesusFreke> signed
Dec 10 09:15:21 <JesusFreke> not encrypted
Dec 10 09:15:33 <Gary|tp> Reading the wikipedia article on RSA, heh. Read through it twice now >.<
Dec 10 09:15:44 <Leeds> come on, if it showed you that, how would google get away with routing all calls through their voice recognition system so they can 'index' your communications?
Dec 10 09:16:03 <tauno> people are playing around with that kind of equipment here.. and I really don't want to use these fake base stations :)
Dec 10 09:16:07 <Gary|tp> AdVoice!
Dec 10 09:16:14 <JesusFreke> lol
Dec 10 09:16:14 <tauno> Leeds, ah, come on :P
Dec 10 09:16:50 <JesusFreke> And now we interrupt your regularly scheduled phone call with a brief announcement from our advertisers
Dec 10 09:17:25 <JesusFreke> ah well. I'm off to bed.
Dec 10 09:17:28 <JesusFreke> nighters
Dec 10 09:17:32 <Leeds> g'night
Dec 10 09:17:49 <Gary|tp> "Excuse me there, we heard you mention McDonalds for dinner tonight. Might we suggest going to Wednys? Their food is cooked on the spot, with fresh,never frozen patties!"
Dec 10 09:17:50 <tauno> ..if somebody has time, they should submit a patch that displays this information ib big bold red letters in the in call screen :)
Dec 10 09:17:56 <Gary|tp> night JF
Dec 10 09:18:07 <Leeds> tauno: well volunteered!
Dec 10 09:18:19 <tauno> :P
Dec 10 09:18:58 <Gary|tp> I think the only thing Google has left to do is pay you for viewing ads, heh.
Dec 10 09:19:17 <Leeds> actually, that would be a cute prank trojan, if it were possible to modify the in-call screen... some other random app should pop up a dialog which says "This call is being intercepted.  Would you like to continue [YES] [NO]"
Dec 10 09:19:48 <Gary|tp> They must make a killing off AdSense, even with their high pay out rates. It would seriously kill AdBlock/etc.
Dec 10 09:20:45 <Gary|tp> With as much as I use the web, I'd take AdSense off my filter list for $0.005 an ad or something.
Dec 10 09:21:12 <Leeds> it'll be interesting to see what happens when adblock for mobchrome comes out
Dec 10 09:21:20 <Leeds> sorry, for "the browser"
Dec 10 09:21:28 <Gary|tp> heh
Dec 10 09:21:35 <Gary|tp> That and chrome itself.
Dec 10 09:21:40 <Leeds> chromob?
Dec 10 09:22:15 <RyeBrye> Umm... to those who want to crack the 1024 bit key - you realize how many hundreds of millions of years that might take you?
Dec 10 09:22:20 <Gary|tp> I mean when you think about it, it would be a very smart move by Google (imho). especially considering people would have to opt into it, it could have a high pay out rate ($100, same as adsense)
Dec 10 09:22:28 <RyeBrye> or sorry - 2048 bit key with 3 as the exponent
Dec 10 09:22:53 <Leeds> big difference is that adsense only pays out on clicks, not views
Dec 10 09:23:07 <RyeBrye> The problem is that the user doesn't have to do anything - and it encourages bad clicks
Dec 10 09:23:31 <Gary|tp> Yes, but it could be limited. Maybe raise it to 0.01, but limit it to one per website per 24 hours.
Dec 10 09:23:35 <RyeBrye> advertisers target demo is NOT people who are so poor they have to look at browser ads to pay the bills
Dec 10 09:24:11 <Gary|tp> It wouldn't pay the bills, but it would certainly be nice ;).
Dec 10 09:24:18 <Gary|tp> I mean even the rich want free money.
Dec 10 09:24:30 <RyeBrye> yeah
Dec 10 09:25:26 <Leeds> it all comes down to the utility cost
Dec 10 09:25:26 <Gary|tp> Look at AdSense, and how well they've done controlling it so far. They monitor and ban for bad clicks, and have a nice system to determine pay outs for clicks/views
Dec 10 09:25:53 <Leeds> I don't think I *would* take adsense of my filter list for an amount like that
Dec 10 09:26:09 <Gary|tp> I mean hell, *I* got banned for bad clicks on AdSense. Long story short, I banned a user on my forum, he got on a public proxy and spam clicked my ads for a couple weeks.
Dec 10 09:26:52 <Gary|tp> Why not leeds? adsense are very low intrusive ads. I rarely ever see the actual banner ads, never pop ups, etc.
Dec 10 09:27:15 <Leeds> maybe for twice as much... or for 10 times as much
Dec 10 09:27:57 <Leeds> could do with some sort of, oh, I don't know... auction system for adviews?
Dec 10 09:28:19 <Leeds> call it AdNonsense :-P
Dec 10 09:28:34 <Foxdie> hmm, is there a way to back up the filesystem on my G1 before I start tinkering?
Dec 10 09:28:49 <Foxdie> I'd like to, for example, symlink sh to busybox
Dec 10 09:29:10 <Foxdie> I'm concerned if I fuck that up, I'll end up with a dead G1 and lose everything until I reflash update.zip
Dec 10 09:29:17 <Gary|tp> Just don't touch the bootloader and you'll be able to reflash RC28 (or was it 29?).
Dec 10 09:29:22 <Foxdie> but then I lose everything I've done since that point
Dec 10 09:29:31 <Leeds> yes, you do
Dec 10 09:30:03 <Gary|tp> Speaking of which, anyone managed to reflash an update with the developer bootloader?
Dec 10 09:30:12 <Foxdie> hence i'd like to take a snapshot of it before I start :)
Dec 10 09:30:13 <Gary|tp> So if you fuck up androids, you can recover?
Dec 10 09:33:58 <Foxdie> hmm, what if I was to dd one of the block devices
Dec 10 09:34:03 <Foxdie> to the SD card
Dec 10 09:34:22 <Foxdie> then if I mess up, reflash update.zip, and then dd back the backup to the block device
Dec 10 09:40:20 <Foxdie> anyone know?
Dec 10 09:41:00 <Foxdie> if I DD /dev/block/mtdblock3,4,5 to SDCARD, can I then restore those at a later date?
Dec 10 09:41:16 <Foxdie> and if thats possible, why can't that be used to give other people root access to their rootless G1s?
Dec 10 09:41:50 <Leeds> how do you expect to dd when you don't already have root?
Dec 10 09:42:06 <dcordes> Foxdie probably because you can't write to the block devices directly w/o # ?
Dec 10 09:42:18 <Foxdie> Good point
Dec 10 09:42:26 <dcordes> what Leeds said
Dec 10 09:42:55 <Foxdie> so at this point we're trying to find some kind of exploit to give us root access?
Dec 10 09:43:05 <Leeds> yes
Dec 10 09:43:28 <Foxdie> okay, understood
Dec 10 09:44:15 <Foxdie> in my situation though (I have root), can I backup the block devices to /sdcard using dd, and then restore those backups if there's problem?
Dec 10 09:44:51 <dcordes> just return the device if they sold you one w/ the .
Dec 10 09:44:59 <dcordes> screwed firmware revision
Dec 10 09:45:28 <Leeds> maybe/probably/good luck and let us know if it works :-)
Dec 10 09:48:09 <Foxdie> hmm
Dec 10 09:48:13 <Foxdie> I/O error
Dec 10 09:48:42 <Gary|tp> Foxdie: Maybe. But if you screw it up, it might not even boot.
Dec 10 09:49:04 <Foxdie> yes, if that happens I can restore update.zip though and fix it right?
Dec 10 09:49:51 <dcordes> Foxdie how do you normally restore update.zip?
Dec 10 09:50:36 <Foxdie> stick it on an SD card, hold down power+some other button, press alt+L and then alt+S if memory serves
Dec 10 09:50:48 <Foxdie> power+home perhaps
Dec 10 09:51:02 <Foxdie> I could be mistaken
Dec 10 09:51:04 <dcordes> ok then it's not likely you will mess things up
Dec 10 09:51:26 <Leeds> can someone wake me up?  I'm falling asleep at my desk...
Dec 10 09:51:33 <Foxdie> Leeds, coffee time
Dec 10 09:51:39 <Gary|tp> Does your client beep when highlighted?
Dec 10 09:51:46 <Gary|tp> Because I can get my botnet on freenode. :)
Dec 10 09:51:48 <dcordes> because I doubt the spl oesmbl etc partitions are accessible
Dec 10 09:52:00 <Leeds> no beeps... and I don't really do coffee... maybe some cold water
Dec 10 09:52:08 <Leeds> it's only 15-30 minutes or so until hometime anyway
Dec 10 09:52:15 <Foxdie> where you from leeds?
Dec 10 09:52:27 <Gary|tp> Eek, 6 pm?
Dec 10 09:52:29 <dcordes> Leeds lucky you
Dec 10 09:52:43 <Gary|tp> 4am here,heh.
Dec 10 09:52:52 <Foxdie> nearly 10am here in the UK
Dec 10 09:52:55 <dcordes> 5 hours left for me
Dec 10 09:53:20 <Gary|tp> ugh, I want to make my IRC/MSN/AIM client. D:
Dec 10 09:53:30 <Leeds> Foxdie: I'm sure you can guess where I'm from - but I haven't lived there for many years
Dec 10 09:53:35 <Foxdie> would it be free?
Dec 10 09:53:57 <Foxdie> Leeds, I used to live in Huddersfield, so yeah, perhaps ;)
Dec 10 09:53:57 <dcordes> Did somebody try Xserver on the g1?
Dec 10 09:54:06 <Gary|tp> Yes. I *seriously* want to make a client that supports a single BNC server, and will let you be signed onto the same account on 4-5 PCs at the same time.
Dec 10 09:54:14 <Leeds> but I live in Hong Kong
Dec 10 09:54:25 <Foxdie> cool, bet you get everything cheap :)
Dec 10 09:54:49 <Gary|tp> so I could be connected to IRC on my G1, notebook, PC, all at once, and when I say something on one it shows up on all the others. Under the same nick.
Dec 10 09:55:23 <Leeds> not too bad
Dec 10 09:55:44 <Foxdie> gary, why don't you just set up 1 place as a comms box and then vnc into it from the rest of the world?
Dec 10 09:55:45 <Gary|tp> It's something I've wanted for years, and have been shocked that no one has made it yet.
Dec 10 09:56:09 <Gary|tp> Because, VNC is too slow and bloated for what I want. I basically just want a BNC.
Dec 10 09:56:14 * sparkle chuckles
Dec 10 09:56:20 <sparkle> i cheat - i use irssi inside of screen
Dec 10 09:56:24 <sparkle> it works really well though
Dec 10 09:56:25 <Gary|tp> heh
Dec 10 09:56:29 <Foxdie> :)
Dec 10 09:56:40 <Gary|tp> I've thought about that, but not a fan of irssi.
Dec 10 09:56:48 <Foxdie> thats not a bad idea, considering there's an ssh client for andriod
Dec 10 09:57:13 <Foxdie> I wonder how satanic it would be to compile irssi for android
Dec 10 09:57:28 <Leeds> Gary|tp: are you awaer of bitlbee?
Dec 10 09:57:32 <Gary|tp> Essentially what I'd do is just try and make a BNC that mIRC doesn't fail with, then probably take Pidgin and modify that.
Dec 10 09:57:39 <Gary|tp> Yes, I don't like using MSN inside of IRC though.
Dec 10 09:57:52 <Leeds> oh, well...
Dec 10 09:58:01 <Gary|tp> Because people on MSN are generally the ones that I want to talk to, all the time :P so it catches my attention.
Dec 10 09:58:19 <Leeds> incidentally, does anyone know why MSN on the built-in IM client fails for me, claiming it needs to read my phone number from my SIM in order to sign in?
Dec 10 09:58:20 <sparkle> Foxdie: it works fine
Dec 10 09:58:22 <Gary|tp> I ignore IRC a lot, and it's hard to tell when I've been queryed etc.
Dec 10 09:58:31 <Gary|tp> Leeds: You unlocked?
Dec 10 09:58:39 <dcordes> Leeds haha what?
Dec 10 09:58:44 <Leeds> I'm not aware of pidgin needing a phone number to sign into MSN :-)
Dec 10 09:58:47 <Leeds> Gary|tp: natch
Dec 10 09:58:49 <Gary|tp> It uses SMS for MSN/AIM/Y!. And it requires T-Mobile.
Dec 10 09:58:54 <sparkle> irssi: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, stripped
Dec 10 09:58:58 <sparkle> :)
Dec 10 09:59:06 <Leeds> it does bloody what?
Dec 10 09:59:10 <Gary|tp> Exactly.
Dec 10 09:59:14 <Leeds> that's insane!
Dec 10 09:59:25 <dcordes> Leeds do you have the good bootloader?
Dec 10 09:59:27 <Leeds> lucky it didn't manage to sign in then
Dec 10 09:59:34 <Leeds> dcordes: I have... a bootloader?
Dec 10 09:59:39 <Gary|tp> I made my GF download GTalk so I don't waste my texts, heh
Dec 10 09:59:51 <Leeds> oh, I made my GF use Gtalk months ago :-D
Dec 10 10:00:05 <sparkle> Foxdie: what i do is to ssh to localhost, and i have a script sitting on the phone that does ssh to a screen session on my home box
Dec 10 10:00:08 <sparkle> and auto-reconnects
Dec 10 10:00:14 <Gary|tp> I refuse to pay $10 a month for unlimited SMS. Especially when I already have 400.
Dec 10 10:00:19 <dcordes> Leeds so you can boot your own kernel
Dec 10 10:00:23 <dcordes> unsigned
Dec 10 10:00:27 <Leeds> although it is slightly disconcerting when she IMs me at random times - on the tram, etc. - thinking I'm at home
Dec 10 10:00:38 <Leeds> dcordes: no, running unmodded RC30 at the moment
Dec 10 10:00:40 <Gary|tp> Leeds: I still need to convince her to use it all the time with me, so that all of our convos will be logged nicely on gmail.
Dec 10 10:00:53 <Leeds> there's that too
Dec 10 10:01:15 <Gary|tp> Pidgin is somewhat unstable, and when it crashes I lose logs.
Dec 10 10:01:16 <sparkle> the auto-reconnect really helps when you may drift in and out of wifi areas, etc
Dec 10 10:01:17 <Leeds> I - almost! - used that search the other day... well, I did use it, but I didn't get the info I was looking for
Dec 10 10:01:25 <Gary|tp> heh
Dec 10 10:01:26 <Foxdie> I'm still waiting for Disconnect to get dropbear working :)
Dec 10 10:01:37 <Gary|tp> It's really nice. It just doesn't have the popularity.
Dec 10 10:01:39 <Foxdie> I hate having to telnet into my G1
Dec 10 10:01:44 <Gary|tp> Which is unfortunate :/
Dec 10 10:01:49 <Foxdie> doubly so because there's no authentication
Dec 10 10:02:13 <Gary|tp> Just use a closed WiFi.
Dec 10 10:02:19 <Gary|tp> WEP/MAC filtering/whatever.
Dec 10 10:02:44 <dcordes> :)
Dec 10 10:02:56 <Leeds> maybe android shouldn't support the other networks ;-)
Dec 10 10:03:03 <sparkle> Foxdie: or just cheat, install a good libc and openssh :)
Dec 10 10:03:07 <Leeds> actually, is that a t-mob thing or an android one?
Dec 10 10:03:15 <Gary|tp> Well
Dec 10 10:03:21 <Gary|tp> HTC had to license IM from Google IIRC.
Dec 10 10:03:28 <Gary|tp> Sec, checking the manual.
Dec 10 10:03:35 <dcordes> IM?
Dec 10 10:04:01 <dcordes> sparkle you have the unlocked device?
Dec 10 10:04:17 <Leeds> just wondering if it's google or t-mob who have some sort of agreement to access Y!/MSN/AIM
Dec 10 10:04:41 <Leeds> assuming it is agreed and isn't just relying on protocol not changing...
Dec 10 10:04:57 <dcordes> that's really ridiculous handling im via sms
Dec 10 10:05:07 <Gary|tp> It is.
Dec 10 10:05:36 <Gary|tp> Uh, in the service manual it's listed as "Applications under OHD distribution"
Dec 10 10:06:01 <Gary|tp> Which would be applications that are free for anyone to use with the Android source, iirc.
Dec 10 10:06:20 <Foxdie> bah
Dec 10 10:06:29 <Foxdie> can't use tar
Dec 10 10:06:31 <Foxdie> it segfaults
Dec 10 10:06:33 <Leeds> cool
Dec 10 10:06:41 <Gary|tp> GTalk and AIM (apparently Google is planning on making AIM data, as they added it to GTalk) are licensed from Google.
Dec 10 10:06:55 <Leeds> Gary|tp: but it's not in the android source base? or is it?
Dec 10 10:07:01 * Leeds too lazy/sleepy to check
Dec 10 10:07:02 <Gary|tp> I'd assume so.
Dec 10 10:07:24 <Gary|tp> In the G1 service manual, it lists it with all of the other free-open source android applications.
Dec 10 10:07:51 <Gary|tp> Browser, camera, desktop, calculator... etc. GTalk is with maps, streetview, market.. all of the licensed stuff.
Dec 10 10:07:57 <Leeds> in which case we could 'fix' it...
Dec 10 10:08:13 <Gary|tp> But either way it implies that it's Googles doing, and T-Mobile likely had to setup which number the SMSs are sent to.
Dec 10 10:08:58 <Gary|tp> Either way, it doesn't matter. Haven't used Meebo too much, but I'm sure better ones will come out.
Dec 10 10:09:09 <Leeds> ooh, even better - so it if had worked, I might have been sending SMSs to a random US number?
Dec 10 10:09:33 <Gary|tp> Yup!
Dec 10 10:09:52 <Leeds> and that may or may not be covered under the roaming data switch
Dec 10 10:10:14 <Gary|tp> Although it probably isn't a real number. I'm not too familiar with SMS, but I believe carriers set up special 4-5 digit phone numbers for SMS services within their network.
Dec 10 10:10:16 <Leeds> in fact, I wonder if that's the source of the reports about huge roaming fees with the data switched off?
Dec 10 10:10:30 <Leeds> short codes, yeah - they're huge in the UK
Dec 10 10:10:35 <Foxdie> hmm, anyone got a better version of busybox that doesn't segfault as much?
Dec 10 10:10:36 <Phlogi> why am I unable to remove IM?
Dec 10 10:10:46 <Leeds> Phlogi: base platform?
Dec 10 10:11:00 <Foxdie> Leeds, don't mention those to me, I used to work for Vodafone 191 tech support, they plagued me x.x
Dec 10 10:11:06 <Phlogi> Leeds: I thought that all apps are created equal.... that sucks
Dec 10 10:11:28 <Gary|tp> All apps outside google are created equal. o/
Dec 10 10:12:00 <Leeds> I'm sure it would be trivial to build an Android image which didn't include IM
Dec 10 10:12:10 <Leeds> or Maps, or YouTube, or Market...
Dec 10 10:12:10 <Gary|tp> Well, yes.
Dec 10 10:12:24 <Gary|tp> Removing any of them would be pointless though, imho.
Dec 10 10:13:08 <Gary|tp> It annoys me, very much, that you won't be able to "legally" use Maps/YouTube/etc on a non-licensed phone.
Dec 10 10:13:28 <Gary|tp> I'm sure you could do it without licensing them, but I dunno how legal that would be.
Dec 10 10:13:42 <Foxdie> since when did people care that much about legality when making "cooked roms"?
Dec 10 10:13:52 <Gary|tp> Haha, true.
Dec 10 10:14:00 <Gary|tp> But still.
Dec 10 10:14:06 <Leeds> Foxdie: if there are semi-official builds for unsupported hardware, it would be nice if they were actually legal
Dec 10 10:14:14 <Leeds> hometime - laters
Dec 10 10:14:14 <Gary|tp> "Open" isn't so open :)
Dec 10 10:14:21 <Gary|tp> Later leeds, have fun :P
Dec 10 10:14:23 <Foxdie> take care leeds
Dec 10 10:17:06 <Phlogi> hmm yes easy too build, but I can't even install the android I want... grr
Dec 10 10:18:22 <djc> hmm, so I won't be able to run Maps on my dev phone?
Dec 10 10:18:51 <Phlogi> djc: do you have one already?
Dec 10 10:19:00 <djc> Phlogi: no
Dec 10 10:19:09 <Phlogi> djc: I'm annyoed by that as well
Dec 10 10:19:22 <dcordes> why would you not be able tor un google maps?
Dec 10 10:19:22 <Phlogi> my phone came with rc30, so no root... :S and now they will sell dev phones
Dec 10 10:19:34 <Gary|tp> dcordes: It's licensed. The phone developers have to purchase it.
Dec 10 10:20:06 <Gary|tp> IIRC an Android developer says DP1 doesn't have Maps, but they're trying to get it on there.
Dec 10 10:20:19 <djc> Gary|tp: okay, interesting
Dec 10 10:20:29 <djc> sucks if we don't get that :|
Dec 10 10:21:09 <Gary|tp> Meh, I've got a rooted RC30 with modded bootloader. I don't need a DP1 :)
Dec 10 10:22:13 <djc> I guess I don't mind getting an "illegal" Maps, if there is one
Dec 10 10:28:48 <dcordes> Gary|tp did you try Xserver on your g1 ?
Dec 10 10:38:16 <Gary|tp> Nope.
Dec 10 10:43:58 <gambler__> Gary|tp, how did you manage that?
Dec 10 10:44:05 <gambler__> in related news I finally got my G1 today...holla
Dec 10 10:44:11 <gambler__> how long does it take to charge the battery
Dec 10 10:51:58 <Gary|tp> gambler__: Manage what.
Dec 10 10:58:45 <spark___> Hi Folks! I have a question: is there a way (button?) to actually suspend the G1, so it won't consume as much power and will probably be able to run for days without a recharge?
Dec 10 11:08:07 <Gary|tp> spark___: Yes, hit the power button.
Dec 10 11:08:11 <Gary|tp> Or shut the phone off.
Dec 10 11:13:26 <spark___> Gary13579: when you hit the power button is doesn't completely shut down, right?
Dec 10 11:13:47 <Gary|tp> Hitting it turns screen off, holding it will power it down.
Dec 10 11:14:11 <spark___> Gary13579: turns screen off? or really suspends the PDA-part of the phone? (allowing you to still be called)
Dec 10 11:14:45 <spark___> Gary13579: as in, you background processes (like an instant messenger application) stop functioning when suspending?
Dec 10 11:16:04 <Gary|tp> No, they won't.
Dec 10 11:16:36 <spark___> Gary13579: hm, that's too bad :(
Dec 10 11:16:54 <spark___> Gary13579: because that way you could use the G1 as a phone, for perhaps more than a week without recharging
Dec 10 11:17:13 <spark___> Gary13579: and if I understand you correctly, that is currently not possible with the G1, right?
Dec 10 11:17:14 <Gary|tp> Even if you turned everything off it wouldn't go a week.
Dec 10 11:17:24 <Gary|tp> Not atm.
Dec 10 11:17:42 <spark___> Gary13579: well it really should, as only the gsm-chip and the memory would consume some power
Dec 10 11:17:53 <spark___> (CPU and screen are both turned off completely)
Dec 10 11:24:46 <gambler__> Gary|tp, rc30 rooted w/bootloader. I thought rc30 hasnt been rooted
Dec 10 11:34:49 <hmepas> any G1 holders from US here? Could you please check if iSkoop avaible on android market?
Dec 10 11:43:33 <spark___> so it's not possible to turn off the CPU on the G1, and *still* be able receive phonecalls?
Dec 10 11:46:02 <tomgibara> spark___: I believe that is possible: I anticipate that the radio would interrupt the CPU when a call comes in
Dec 10 11:46:28 <djc> tomgibara: yeah, but not with current software, right?
Dec 10 11:47:30 <tomgibara> djc: I know from experience that, when writing an app that runs in the background: if you don't hold a wake lock, the CPU is liable to just shut off on you.
Dec 10 11:47:52 <tomgibara> The 'degree' to which the CPU is shutdown, I don't know.
Dec 10 11:48:06 <hmepas> guys, really. nooone from US?
Dec 10 11:48:37 <mib_sp0n4i> What does the allow data roaming option mean?
Dec 10 11:53:02 <Rob-cs> im from US
Dec 10 11:53:05 <Rob-cs> whats up hmepas
Dec 10 11:53:50 <spark___> tomgibara: yes, but I can't find anything on the web confirming this
Dec 10 11:54:27 <spark___> tomgibara: I'm trying to find out how long the G1 can hold out by just being able to accept calls/sms (so no mobile internet or background processes..)
Dec 10 11:54:33 <djc> tomgibara: I know from the development talks that they shut stuff down all the time, just to free up memory
Dec 10 11:54:34 <Phlogi> is the google adressbook unable to store the birthday date of my contacts?
Dec 10 11:55:09 <spark___> tomgibara: but it appears there is no way to suspend the phone in a way that the CPU is actually shut down, is there?
Dec 10 11:57:58 <Phlogi> is the google adressbook unable to store the birthday date of my contacts?
Dec 10 11:59:50 <alexissoft> when you say that maps will not be on dev phones, is it going to be on the original firmware provided with it or do you mean you can't flash it without loosing maps ?
Dec 10 12:24:13 <hmepas> phandroid: sorry went afk right before you answere =/ Could you please check from you G1 do you have application named 'iSkoot' in market? It's seems like apps market is different regarding to location.
Dec 10 12:31:14 <snadge> anyone know how to take off the hard plastic case for the g1? its an aftermarket one, that has a belt clip attachment that can rotate into 8 different positions
Dec 10 12:31:46 <snadge> im not sure if you have to unscrew the belt clip part from the case first.. or whether you just undo the clips holding it on and it pops off
Dec 10 12:33:58 <snadge> i think its one of these - http://www.accessorygeeks.com/htc-google-g1-trcl-plastic-case.html
Dec 10 12:48:19 <anno^da_> How do I remove an onclick listener from a button?
Dec 10 12:48:26 <anno^da_> is it removeCallbacks?
Dec 10 13:05:16 <snadge> got it :)
Dec 10 13:51:57 <brocktice> Is it impossible for a userspace app to toggle 2G/3G?
Dec 10 13:55:19 <louzer> hi all, I want to get text from a EditText when it is changed, so that I can update a TextView. I don't know how to use the onTextChanged thing EditText has. Please help.
Dec 10 13:56:50 <SnolahC> hi all, i wanted to know if there were an IRC client for android ? (if no, it would be a good first project on this platform for me... !!)
Dec 10 13:57:31 <louzer> http://androidirc.net/
Dec 10 13:57:37 <SnolahC> ok, thx !
Dec 10 13:57:44 <michaelnovakjr> eh
Dec 10 13:57:48 <michaelnovakjr> i'm writing a better one :)
Dec 10 13:58:26 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: do u know how get text from a text field when the text is changed?
Dec 10 13:58:40 <michaelnovakjr> set a listener
Dec 10 13:59:25 <louzer> here is how I did that. I inherited EditText into a custom view and overrided onTextChanged
Dec 10 13:59:27 <SnolahC> which license/language michaelnovakjr ?
Dec 10 13:59:44 <michaelnovakjr> its in Java and will be licensed under the Apache license
Dec 10 13:59:56 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: is that the way to set a listener?
Dec 10 13:59:56 <SnolahC> ok
Dec 10 14:00:24 <michaelnovakjr> louzer: do you have any other reason to extend the EditText other than for a listener?
Dec 10 14:00:25 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: because after I did that I cant access other Views from onTextChanged
Dec 10 14:00:35 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: no other reason
Dec 10 14:00:47 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: I just want to get the text when it is changed
Dec 10 14:02:02 <michaelnovakjr> pastebin your code louzer
Dec 10 14:02:36 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: I deleted it because customizing a view doesnt let me access data of the Activity
Dec 10 14:02:56 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: I was wondering whether there is any other way to set a listener
Dec 10 14:03:54 <michaelnovakjr> louzer: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/text/TextWatcher.html
Dec 10 14:04:36 <louzer> After I override those methods how do I ask EditText to use it?
Dec 10 14:06:55 <louzer> There is no way to make EditText use a TextWatcher instance
Dec 10 14:07:31 <michaelnovakjr> what are you trying to accomplish?
Dec 10 14:08:38 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: I want to get text from an EditText when the text changes so I can do something on it.
Dec 10 14:08:49 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: I got it! public void addTextChangedListener(TextWatcher watcher)
Dec 10 14:08:58 <louzer> michaelnovakjr: Thanks michaelnovakjr
Dec 10 14:09:01 <louzer> Thanks a lot
Dec 10 14:14:05 <brocktice> None of the tweak/toggle/settings apps can change the 2G/3G setting.
Dec 10 14:14:19 <brocktice> They change everything else, so I'm inferring from that that 3G can't be toggled directly.
Dec 10 14:14:52 <brocktice> michaelnovakjr, Is yours the one that's been linked here before?
Dec 10 14:15:03 <michaelnovakjr> nope
Dec 10 14:15:11 <michaelnovakjr> i'm still working on it
Dec 10 14:15:13 <brocktice> so now there are three out/pending
Dec 10 14:15:33 <michaelnovakjr> i've seen screenshots of one and i didn't like it
Dec 10 14:16:09 <michaelnovakjr> i'm implementing a lighter irc library in Java because the ones I found weren't that great
Dec 10 14:16:48 <michaelnovakjr> i think mine's going to be the only open source one from what i heard
Dec 10 14:17:05 <blau-MikeDG> are there any open source toogle setting apps?
Dec 10 14:17:13 <blau-MikeDG> id like to add some of the toggling to one of my apps
Dec 10 14:17:17 <blau-MikeDG> but dont wanna do the legwork
Dec 10 14:17:26 <michaelnovakjr> do you release your source code?
Dec 10 14:17:36 <blau-MikeDG> for that app i will
Dec 10 14:17:51 <blau-MikeDG> i help others develop
Dec 10 14:17:58 <michaelnovakjr> what settings do you want to toggle?
Dec 10 14:18:16 <blau-MikeDG> whatever the usual wants are, gps, bluetooth
Dec 10 14:18:20 <blau-MikeDG> i got wifi already
Dec 10 14:18:42 <michaelnovakjr> uh, isn't that in the settings :)
Dec 10 14:19:17 <blau-MikeDG> its just a setting? what took people so long to do this then?
Dec 10 14:19:25 <michaelnovakjr> hm
Dec 10 14:19:34 <michaelnovakjr> because its already in the setings apk maybe :)
Dec 10 14:19:38 <blau-MikeDG> all the togglers ive seen were so unreliable, i thought there musta been a trick or undocument thing
Dec 10 14:19:59 <brocktice> blau-MikeDG, They seem reliable enough to me...
Dec 10 14:20:11 <brocktice> But 3G is a big battery hog and it drives me crazy that there's no easy toggle for it.
Dec 10 14:20:16 <brocktice> Going through settings takes so many taps.
Dec 10 14:20:37 <blau-MikeDG> my app would let you toggle things with hot keys!
Dec 10 14:20:44 <blau-MikeDG> right now i have search+w toggle wifi
Dec 10 14:21:04 <brocktice> blau-MikeDG, But then I have to open the keyboard :(
Dec 10 14:21:27 <blau-MikeDG> some people prefer the keyboard
Dec 10 14:21:30 <brocktice> My favorites so far are the bluetooth and wifi toggles that do one thing when you run them -- change the state.
Dec 10 14:21:36 <brocktice> And then exit
Dec 10 14:22:00 <michaelnovakjr> i guess, i just find it pointless to take up space for something that's a setting
Dec 10 14:22:14 <michaelnovakjr> but that's just one opinion :)
Dec 10 14:22:22 <blau-MikeDG> what if there was a single app, that created desktop shortcuts for toggles depending on what you wanted
Dec 10 14:22:30 <blau-MikeDG> only one item would clutter your launcher
Dec 10 14:22:56 <michaelnovakjr> i don't know, i probably wouldn't use it personall
Dec 10 14:23:02 <michaelnovakjr> i don't mind the settings
Dec 10 14:23:09 <blau-MikeDG> would use the keyboard shortcuts?
Dec 10 14:23:16 <phandroid> isn't that what AnyCut does anyways?
Dec 10 14:23:42 <blau-MikeDG> phandroid: anycut would only work if you had an app that toggled and knew what intent to send it
Dec 10 14:23:56 <phandroid> gotchya
Dec 10 14:24:03 <blau-MikeDG> im talking about it makes an icon, and that icon toggles instantly
Dec 10 14:24:11 <blau-MikeDG> as opposed to takes you to a settings page
Dec 10 14:24:36 <marix> gentlemen.
Dec 10 14:25:15 <michaelnovakjr> ...
Dec 10 14:25:27 <blau-MikeDG> anyone got a clue how to replace the search button?
Dec 10 14:51:44 <marix> blau-MikeDG: which search button are you wanting to replace?
Dec 10 14:58:47 <Disconnect> what are the chances someone can slip me a preview of the highspeed battery-destroying bt driver?
Dec 10 14:59:02 <BlindOracle> hehe
Dec 10 15:00:28 <BlindOracle> where do I obtain the bionic headers?
Dec 10 15:00:43 <Disconnect> NDK :)
Dec 10 15:00:53 <blau-MikeDG> killer app for myself!
Dec 10 15:01:01 <blau-MikeDG> a search bar that doesnt use the normal browser!
Dec 10 15:01:32 <Disconnect> search bar on the device asks if i want ot use browser or meebo. so you can clearly register search receivers..
Dec 10 15:01:53 <blau-MikeDG> i dont want a receiver though
Dec 10 15:02:18 <blau-MikeDG> i guess the closest thing my bar is to is the google desktop search double click control bar
Dec 10 15:02:40 <blau-MikeDG> start typing, itll offer to allow you to visit a url, search amazon, search google, or offer apps that match
Dec 10 15:02:42 <louzer> When I try to findViewById I get null. This is my layout: http://pastebin.com/d15476a04
Dec 10 15:02:44 <Disconnect> ahhhhh ok
Dec 10 15:02:48 <Disconnect> neat :)
Dec 10 15:03:12 <BlindOracle> can you develop with 64-bit java or do you have to install the 32-bit jdk?
Dec 10 15:03:18 <blau-MikeDG> and im toying with opening the urls in a local webview, with an option to open in the real browser
Dec 10 15:03:29 <louzer> can anyone help?
Dec 10 15:04:16 <louzer> I did (EditText) findViewById(R.id.input); on the above layout and it gives me null
Dec 10 15:05:13 <blau-MikeDG> are you sure you loaded the view up correctly?
Dec 10 15:05:32 <louzer> blau-MikeDG: yes I did setContentView(R.layout.main);
Dec 10 15:05:52 <louzer> and the layout file is main.xml
Dec 10 15:06:06 <blau-MikeDG> hmm
Dec 10 15:06:08 <blau-MikeDG> looks ok to me
Dec 10 15:06:15 <louzer> yeah :(
Dec 10 15:06:47 <louzer> I ran the debugger and input is null.. so I get error when I set a listener
Dec 10 15:06:47 <marklar> have you tried running it without finding the views?
Dec 10 15:06:54 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: 64bit java but if you are doing source build its gotta be 32bit :/
Dec 10 15:07:15 <louzer> marklar: how do I get hold of a view without fining its id?
Dec 10 15:07:33 <marklar> No, sorry I was just curious if the views showed up even when you loaded them
Dec 10 15:07:58 <marklar> without trying to access them
Dec 10 15:08:08 <louzer> marklar: yes I can see the Views on the emulator when I dont access them
Dec 10 15:08:18 <marklar> huh strange,
Dec 10 15:08:33 <louzer> marklar: if i use fidnViewById i get null thats all
Dec 10 15:08:35 <marklar> everything looks right to me, maybe pastebin some of your code?
Dec 10 15:08:46 <louzer> marklar: ok
Dec 10 15:10:25 <louzer> marklar: Layout - http://pastebin.com/d15476a04
Dec 10 15:10:39 <louzer> marklar: code - http://pastebin.com/d3ecaaa34
Dec 10 15:11:05 <marklar> you are trying to find them before you set the content view?
Dec 10 15:11:21 <louzer> marklar: yes
Dec 10 15:11:27 <marklar> thats why they are null :)
Dec 10 15:11:40 <marklar> put setContentView() below super.onCreate
Dec 10 15:11:51 <louzer> marklar: oh I thought the XML file gets loaded after the super call
Dec 10 15:12:01 <marklar> well, I'm not positive
Dec 10 15:12:03 <louzer> marklar: yeah that was a dumb assumption
Dec 10 15:12:08 <marklar> but I'm pretty sure you need to call the setContentView first
Dec 10 15:12:29 <louzer> marklar: ok.. because Android want know before hand which R.layout I am going to load
Dec 10 15:12:37 <louzer> marklar: so silly of me
Dec 10 15:12:37 <marklar> yup, thats my understanding
Dec 10 15:12:43 <marklar> hey, I did the same thing :)
Dec 10 15:13:00 <louzer> marklar: oh ok :)
Dec 10 15:13:32 <louzer> Thanks marklar
Dec 10 15:13:35 <louzer> a lot
Dec 10 15:13:45 <marklar> no problem
Dec 10 15:16:58 <spark___> can anyone tell what standby time is to be expected with a G1 that's in sleep mode; and doesn't do anything else? will it last for days?
Dec 10 15:17:32 <vol> at least days
Dec 10 15:17:40 <vol> when the G1 isn't actually DOING anything, it's pretty good
Dec 10 15:17:57 <vol> ESPECIALLY if you're not using the data plan (syncing mail, etc)
Dec 10 15:18:12 <spark___> vol: and in sleep mode you can still be reached with regard to normal phone-calls, right?
Dec 10 15:18:25 <spark___> (I'm aware the network-stuff is disabled in sleep mode)
Dec 10 15:18:29 <vol> yes
Dec 10 15:18:34 <spark___> (non-radio-network stuff that is)
Dec 10 15:19:26 <spark___> vol: I'm trying to find out how long I would be able to do without a recharge if I only wanted to be reacheable for phone-calls.. and you're guessing this is at least a couple of days eh?
Dec 10 15:20:44 <vol> definitely
Dec 10 15:20:55 <blau-MikeDG> just gotta make sure no apps wake your phone
Dec 10 15:20:57 <vol> with the data plan on and syncing it usually lasts me a few days
Dec 10 15:21:17 <vol> though that's after full discharge full charge cycling it a couple times
Dec 10 15:28:02 <spark___> vol: ok, that sounds reasonable to me
Dec 10 15:28:31 <spark___> vol: are you a little into android development as well?
Dec 10 15:31:47 <blau-MikeDG> you cant scroll a webview unless it has focus?
Dec 10 15:37:52 <Rob-cs> morrildl you around?
Dec 10 15:38:12 <Rob-cs> i have a semi-pressing question for youi
Dec 10 15:38:59 <blau-MikeDG> im here!
Dec 10 15:41:24 <tgz> argh my phone is getting so slow
Dec 10 15:42:15 <tgz> I'd really like to disable the back button behavior, I think it's an okay idea that doesn't work because I'm willing to bet remembering the state of like 423978 different apps/screens is part of my problem
Dec 10 15:42:32 <tgz> one app, one state
Dec 10 15:42:47 <blau-MikeDG> i dont get what you mean
Dec 10 15:42:48 <Disconnect> tgz: um. you want an iphone then.
Dec 10 15:42:58 <Disconnect> it doesn't "remember the state" .. the apps are still running.
Dec 10 15:43:01 <blau-MikeDG> it doesnt really remember the state of 28819 apps
Dec 10 15:43:06 <Disconnect> when you run out of 'live' apps it drops to the home page instead
Dec 10 15:43:17 <brocktice> and then you wait 8-15 seconds
Dec 10 15:43:50 <blau-MikeDG> suck it up noob
Dec 10 15:44:05 <brocktice> blau-MikeDG, wtf?
Dec 10 15:44:37 <Leeds> blau-MikeDG: nice
Dec 10 15:45:21 <tgz> no, I understand the app is running
Dec 10 15:45:32 <tgz> I'm just saying, I can run an app and text someone
Dec 10 15:45:47 <tgz> and then I can hit a notification and switch to another app
Dec 10 15:45:55 <tgz> and then someone else texts me and I hit that notification
Dec 10 15:46:14 <blau-MikeDG> ok
Dec 10 15:46:15 <tgz> back back back will get me to my other app, then my other text, then back to home
Dec 10 15:46:31 <blau-MikeDG> whats wrong with that
Dec 10 15:46:44 <Leeds> tgz: it's more like the history in your browser - the system remembers what you were doing, but it doesn't mean the apps are still running in the background
Dec 10 15:46:51 <tgz> I understand how it works =]
Dec 10 15:47:06 <tgz> I'd rather be *switching* texts so whatever state doesn't have to be remembered
Dec 10 15:47:12 <tgz> because it's awfully slow
Dec 10 15:47:25 <blau-MikeDG> backing out isnt slow for me
Dec 10 15:47:36 <jbq> doesn't long-pressing home do what you need?
Dec 10 15:47:45 <michaelnovakjr> ^^ bingo
Dec 10 15:47:49 <tgz> for switching yes
Dec 10 15:48:00 <bgupta> Is there a place to submit RFEs for official Google apps? IE: I'd like to request the ability to use the keyboard to quickly navigate through my list of labels whenever a list of labels is displayed.. I have well over 100 labels. THe current method of scrolling through  them is a pain.
Dec 10 15:48:01 <tgz> but with having tons of stuff open, it seems the longer my "back" list gets, the slower the phone is
Dec 10 15:48:13 <Leeds> a certain amount of stuff is kept running - as much as will fit in memory - but past that limit there's no impact having a long back list, I think
Dec 10 15:48:20 <blau-MikeDG> bgupta: labels in gmail?
Dec 10 15:48:24 <Leeds> bgupta: submit it as a bug report/request?
Dec 10 15:48:46 <bgupta> blaud-MikeDG: Yeah
Dec 10 15:48:55 <bgupta> Leeds: WHere?
Dec 10 15:48:55 <Leeds> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
Dec 10 15:49:26 <bgupta> ANd I can submit it here even though it is part of the closed source stack?
Dec 10 15:49:41 <Leeds> worst thing that happens is the bug/request gets closed
Dec 10 15:50:19 <Disconnect> Leeds: i've seen about 3 reports closed on that whole stack. and 2 of them consisted of c&p of the default "what to put here" text.
Dec 10 15:50:28 <Leeds> or just moan at the google chaps here :-)
Dec 10 15:50:54 <tgz> Leeds: so I guess maybe the memory availability is being incorrectly estimated?
Dec 10 15:51:17 <michaelnovakjr> i haven't noticed being slow for me
Dec 10 15:51:32 <michaelnovakjr> are there any apps in specific that hang more than others?
Dec 10 15:51:36 <Leeds> tgz: possibly... or possibly you're imaging it, or expecting too much of the device?
Dec 10 15:51:48 <Leeds> argh, imagining
Dec 10 15:52:00 <blau-MikeDG> messaging!
Dec 10 15:52:09 <jasta> yeah messaging is a sucky app
Dec 10 15:52:18 <michaelnovakjr> well, yes
Dec 10 15:52:19 <jasta> terrible, really
Dec 10 15:52:21 <michaelnovakjr> it certainly is
Dec 10 15:52:27 <Rob-cs> jasta!
Dec 10 15:52:31 <Rob-cs> long time no talk to
Dec 10 15:52:32 <Rob-cs> hows five?
Dec 10 15:52:33 <jasta> its so incredibly slow
Dec 10 15:52:50 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, sqlite :)
Dec 10 15:53:00 <michaelnovakjr> for lost of messages
Dec 10 15:53:07 <spark___> wondering: when the phone is in sleep-mode, does it still give you notifications with regard to calendar-appointments?
Dec 10 15:53:08 <jasta> Rob-cs: goin' good, i'm setting myself up a week of time off work to get some shit done in early january hehe
Dec 10 15:53:17 <spark___> (the G1 that is, obviously)
Dec 10 15:53:23 <blau-MikeDG> spark, yes, test it yourself though
Dec 10 15:53:40 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: yeah but it should have an option (default on) to automatically delete old messages.  it should try to only keep like the most recent 50 threads and only 20 messages in each
Dec 10 15:54:00 <jasta> spark___: yes, it does.
Dec 10 15:54:07 <spark___> blau-MikeDG: I don't have one yet, I'm contemplating buying the dev 1 (I'm from the Netherlands)
Dec 10 15:54:11 <jasta> err, what do you mean by "sleep mode"?
Dec 10 15:54:17 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, agreed
Dec 10 15:54:20 <Leeds> jasta: 'turned off'
Dec 10 15:54:26 <michaelnovakjr> or manage the loading like gmail does
Dec 10 15:54:29 <spark___> blau-MikeDG: but I'm a bit worried about the reports with regard to the battery life of the G1
Dec 10 15:54:36 <michaelnovakjr> where it doesn't load a 1,000 message thread all at once :)
Dec 10 15:54:49 <spark___> blau-MikeDG: so I'm guessing I'll want to have the phone in sleep-mode most of the time
Dec 10 15:54:53 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: yeah, just limit the queries.  why the hell not :)
Dec 10 15:55:25 <jasta> also, romain tells me that they for some reason had to disable a bunch of listview optimizations, though i cant tell that from the source code
Dec 10 15:55:28 <spark___> jasta: sleep mode, I believe this is entered by pressing the 'end' button, no?
Dec 10 15:55:31 <jasta> specifically for the messaging app i mean
Dec 10 15:55:41 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, yea i heard that
Dec 10 15:55:43 <jasta> spark___: yeah, ok, then yes calendar appoints will still notify
Dec 10 15:55:48 <funkmonk> does anybody know, whether i can use netty on android?
Dec 10 15:55:54 <jasta> meh, im hoping the messaging app gets some love soon
Dec 10 15:56:03 <jasta> if not, maybe i will give it some when i get my dev phone :)
Dec 10 15:56:13 <michaelnovakjr> ordered one of those too :)
Dec 10 15:56:30 <spark___> jasta: any word on what's included in the dev 1 phone box?
Dec 10 15:56:46 <jasta> i dunno, thats not how im getting my dev phone :)
Dec 10 15:57:44 <spark___> jasta: ah
Dec 10 15:58:11 <Leeds> I would guess essentially the same as for a regular G1 - phone, charger, USB cable, headset... maybe a 1GB SD card (the phone is slightly limited without one) and maybe a USB->3.5mm audio adapter
Dec 10 15:59:00 <spark___> Leeds: yeah the audio adapter would be nice, bit of a pain to have to order that separately
Dec 10 15:59:22 <Leeds> of course we won't need that once a2dp is working... right?
Dec 10 15:59:34 <summatusmentis> oooh... I hope future devices have a 3.5mm jack
Dec 10 15:59:45 <djc> jasta: get k9sms
Dec 10 15:59:53 <djc> see brad.livejournal.com
Dec 10 16:00:42 <funkmonk> how can i see the console output of my android app? eclipse only shows the output of the emulator
Dec 10 16:01:01 <spark___> Leeds: I'd still need it, 'cause I'd rather listen to music on my expensive headphones instead of having to buy some new ones (a2dp compatible)
Dec 10 16:01:02 <Leeds> something with adb...
Dec 10 16:01:15 <Leeds> spark___: s/need/want/ :-P
Dec 10 16:02:57 <jasta> djc: i just dont understand why these people keep forking shit instead of just fixing the bloody upstream app
Dec 10 16:03:19 <djc> jasta: they want to contribute
Dec 10 16:03:27 <djc> but apparently there are some process problems
Dec 10 16:03:43 <djc> but they're certainly not forking because they want too
Dec 10 16:04:24 <jasta> well i know htat google internally is transitioning from perforce right now, but im sure you can get small things like this introduced easily
Dec 10 16:04:30 <Leeds> if the forks are useful, they will probably get folded back in
Dec 10 16:04:33 <jasta> unless of course google already fixed it
Dec 10 16:04:41 <Leeds> think of them as branches rather than forks
Dec 10 16:04:55 <jasta> Leeds: not quickly.  google loses visibility to things not going through their bug tracking and code review tools.
Dec 10 16:05:01 <djc> jasta: like I said, it's not a technical problem
Dec 10 16:05:06 <djc> it's a process problem
Dec 10 16:05:10 <djc> and they're fixing it
Dec 10 16:05:44 <jbq> we've made a commitment to merge all changes submitted so far with our big drop.
Dec 10 16:05:58 <Leeds> you could always go over and use opensymbian instead - oh, no, that's not going to be open until 2010
Dec 10 16:05:58 <djc> jbq: well, big drops suck
Dec 10 16:06:01 <tgz> Leeds: I'm not imagining not being able to answer my phone. =]
Dec 10 16:06:08 <djc> when's the next big drop, btw, any schedule?
Dec 10 16:06:22 <jbq> djc: yes, that's why we're really pushing very hard to be sure it's the last one we ever have to do.
Dec 10 16:06:24 <Leeds> I think there's only *one* big drop scheduled
Dec 10 16:06:34 <jbq> djc: schedule: by the end of the month.
Dec 10 16:06:52 <Leeds> jbq: and then big party
Dec 10 16:06:53 <djc> k, sounds good :)
Dec 10 16:07:49 <Disconnect> ...wtf?? k9sms has huge security requests :(
Dec 10 16:08:38 <djc> "huge security requests"?
Dec 10 16:08:58 <loke> what is k9sms?
Dec 10 16:09:25 <jbq> Disconnect: are they different from those of the build-in SMS apps?
Dec 10 16:09:30 <tauno> (uh.. before I forget.. if (mJbqPresent) stopParty(); - you can't start a new one without stopping the old one first)
Dec 10 16:09:46 <tauno> loke, "<djc> see brad.livejournal.com"
Dec 10 16:09:50 <djc> loke: a fork of the sms app, with performance fixes
Dec 10 16:09:59 <loke> tauno: I managed to google my way there already :-)
Dec 10 16:10:00 <Disconnect> it needs everything - some of it makes sense (start at boot, receive/read messages, etc) but 'full network access' 'directly call phone numbers'
Dec 10 16:10:03 <Disconnect> 'write contact data'
Dec 10 16:10:05 <blau-MikeDG> i cant find k-9 sms
Dec 10 16:10:10 <loke> djc: cool. gotta try once my phone gets here
Dec 10 16:10:15 <blau-MikeDG> directly call phone numbers makes sense
Dec 10 16:10:18 <Disconnect> change network connectivity, prevent phone from sleeping..
Dec 10 16:10:21 <blau-MikeDG> does the normal sms have call this person?
Dec 10 16:10:23 <Leeds> add contacts makes sense
Dec 10 16:10:25 <Disconnect> blau-MikeDG: should be going through the dialer
Dec 10 16:10:37 <Disconnect> does it need 'write contact data' to call into the contacts app?
Dec 10 16:10:49 <Disconnect> thought the whole point was you call out ot the other apps for that sort of thing instead of handling it internally
Dec 10 16:10:54 <blau-MikeDG> disc: its in the market?
Dec 10 16:11:05 <Disconnect> no someone posted a link
Dec 10 16:11:12 <Disconnect> earlier
Dec 10 16:11:20 <blau-MikeDG> i missed it :(
Dec 10 16:11:37 <tauno> blau-MikeDG, "<tauno> loke, "<djc> see brad.livejournal.com""
Dec 10 16:11:39 <luok> hey any good apps for streaming from home music library?
Dec 10 16:11:44 <Leeds> luok: five
Dec 10 16:12:13 <spark___> btw, would it be technically possible write an app that was the G1 from sleep-mode at specified times, opens a data-connection, scans for new messages (e.g. IM) and notifies of them when available (and otherwise returns to sleep?)
Dec 10 16:12:28 <spark___> s/was/wakes/
Dec 10 16:12:39 <tauno> spark___, sure it should be possible
Dec 10 16:12:49 <Disconnect> also no sources. (so its a good example of the difference between an open source project and an open source license..)
Dec 10 16:13:01 <blau-MikeDG> yes it would be
Dec 10 16:13:03 <luok> Leeds: linux only?
Dec 10 16:13:18 <Leeds> possibly - I wouldn't know
Dec 10 16:13:20 <blau-MikeDG> boo to no k9 sms source
Dec 10 16:13:23 <luok> k
Dec 10 16:13:28 <spark___> tauno: that's pretty cool; and also waking up the phone without enabling the screen/touchpad would be possible then yes?
Dec 10 16:13:34 <djc> blau-MikeDG: I asked, it's comming
Dec 10 16:13:37 <djc> s/comming/coming
Dec 10 16:13:59 <Leeds> "it's coming" is always a bit of a cheat when it comes to source - I've heard it too many times as an unfulfilled promise
Dec 10 16:14:03 <Disconnect> djc: so's christmas
Dec 10 16:14:17 <Disconnect> (although that works better in june than in december :) ..)
Dec 10 16:14:21 <djc> Leeds: bradfitz is a good guy
Dec 10 16:14:30 <tauno> spark___, don't know.. haven't tried it myself :)
Dec 10 16:14:31 <djc> released LiveJournal, djabberd, memcached, etc.
Dec 10 16:14:33 <Disconnect> seriously, how hard is it to post a tgz along with the bin?
Dec 10 16:14:41 <spark___> blau-MikeDG: would it?
Dec 10 16:14:48 <Leeds> djc: I don't know enough about this particular case... but I've had bad experiences
Dec 10 16:15:00 <blau-MikeDG> spark: setup an alarmManager, with RTC_WAKEUP
Dec 10 16:15:07 <blau-MikeDG> and itll wake up the phone and run something
Dec 10 16:15:13 <blau-MikeDG> then just hold a wakelock while you do your crap
Dec 10 16:15:45 <blau-MikeDG> i gotta run out but if you want a better explanation send me a msg and ill get back to you
Dec 10 16:15:51 <spark___> blau-MikeDG: and this wouldn't trigger the screen?
Dec 10 16:16:02 <spark___> (RTC_WAKEUP ?)
Dec 10 16:16:13 <spark___> ah well, can look it up in the docs myself
Dec 10 16:16:17 <spark___> thanks for the info though!
Dec 10 16:16:20 <blau-MikeDG> look into alarmmanager
Dec 10 16:16:26 <Disconnect> the biggest worry for me is 'net access'. "I can do everything, and btw i need net access too"....
Dec 10 16:16:30 <spark___> yes, will do!
Dec 10 16:17:37 <RyeBrye> Yeah, "full net access" :) basically meaning... "Oh, and I COULD just pipe all this crap I want out to my own server where I am starting my own version of Echelon for fun"
Dec 10 16:18:05 <Disconnect> anyone who was ever involved with social publishing understands the value of personal info
Dec 10 16:18:25 <Disconnect> ftr it looks like - for whatever reason - the mms app requests internet too
Dec 10 16:18:36 <Disconnect> and access/change network state (??)
Dec 10 16:19:17 <Disconnect> so not only "i can copy all this info" but "and i can make sure its over edge/3g so you can't see it happening" :/
Dec 10 16:19:19 <loke> Disconnect: that's not so strange right?
Dec 10 16:19:32 <Disconnect> loke: to send/receive mms/sms? seems pretty strange..
Dec 10 16:19:44 <Leeds> unless the permissions get finer-grained, a lot of apps are going to need full net access
Dec 10 16:19:47 <loke> MMS is implemented by sending an SMS containing an URL
Dec 10 16:20:07 <loke> the URL is retrieved using a different connection provider
Dec 10 16:20:38 <loke> which is why you have an "mms" internet provider besides the normal internet one
Dec 10 16:36:36 <anno^da_> What is the right way to disable callback methods (onChangeListener etc) untill the UI is restored to the last status. While setting my UI back to the last status (setting checkboxes etc) a lot of callback methods get called that I dont want. Since it is no interaction from the user. What is the right way to handle that.
Dec 10 16:39:51 <tomgibara> anno^da_: There's probably no right way, you could delay adding your listeners, or set/check a flag in the listener, or change your logic so that the response to the events aren't disruptive.
Dec 10 16:40:57 <anno^da_> tomgibara: thank you. Yeah ok. :/
Dec 10 16:41:19 <anno^da_> I've tested it with state variables but the callbacks are to slow :)
Dec 10 16:41:48 <anno^da_> the state variable is always true untill the callback apperas.
Dec 10 16:42:47 <anno^da_> Am I right that the onResume method is the last point to change the state variable to some "ui ready state" ?
Dec 10 16:44:22 <andyross> anno^da_: That's my understanding too.  pause/resume are the entry/exit to a foreground process that can interact with the user.  Everything else (even create) is fuzzy.
Dec 10 16:44:50 <Nafai> anno^da_: Small bug report on your application.  The only way I could get the notification that the service was turned on to go away was to choose "Clear Notifications".  Most other notifications go away after I select them.
Dec 10 16:45:00 <Nafai> anno^da_: Otherwise, it's great!
Dec 10 16:45:35 <tomgibara> anno^da: The way I interpret the lifecycle, its possible that an activity may be visible after onStart(). That might be wrong though
Dec 10 16:50:56 <anno^da_> Nafai: Thanks. Yeah I know that and you will be able to turn off the notification now. :)
Dec 10 16:51:16 <Nafai> anno^da_: Awesome, thanks!
Dec 10 16:51:29 <anno^da_> When I got the last error figured out.
Dec 10 16:51:41 <anno^da_> Which has to to with the above mentioned situation.
Dec 10 16:52:09 <anno^da_> andyross: Yeah I have set the state variable true in the onResume method and false in the onPause
Dec 10 16:52:18 <anno^da_> But the damn callbacks are to slow. :)
Dec 10 16:53:10 <anno^da_> I'm doing some auto saving when changing the state of a checkbox. While the checkbox is changed I'm always binding to a service. :/
Dec 10 16:53:33 <anno^da_> And the binding shouldnt happen when I reset the UI state in onResume :/
Dec 10 17:19:40 <unix_lappy> what intent does pressing the endcall button fire?
Dec 10 17:33:10 <BlindOracle> dang ISP crapped out...finally back up
Dec 10 17:52:48 <slimjimflim> hi, can somebody clarify for me what license(s) android is under?
Dec 10 17:53:26 <slimjimflim> i'm reading in the news that it's 'open source' but it seems like i heard before that part of the kernel is still proprietary
Dec 10 17:53:33 <BlindOracle> slimjimflim: http://source.android.com/license
Dec 10 17:53:54 <slimjimflim> ty
Dec 10 17:54:19 <jbq> kernel is all GPL. Most of the newly written code is apache2. other pre-existing packages obviously kept their existing licenses, typically BSD or Apache.
Dec 10 17:54:59 <jbq> You've got to check the individual projects for details.
Dec 10 17:56:05 <slimjimflim> hm
Dec 10 17:56:52 <slimjimflim> so by newly written code, jbq, you mean drivers and mobile-specific apps?
Dec 10 17:58:28 <slimjimflim> i guess what i'm getting at is: can i look at any of the source code i want, or is some of it in binary only
Dec 10 18:00:16 <[nine]> i suspect most of it is open, but i can't find source for, e.g. the market app.
Dec 10 18:00:27 <Disconnect> yep
Dec 10 18:00:34 <Disconnect> there are a bunch of closed apps.
Dec 10 18:00:43 <Disconnect> there are a bunch of closed apps.
Dec 10 18:00:50 <Disconnect> grr. i meant there is a list around somewhere.
Dec 10 18:01:00 <[nine]> or maps
Dec 10 18:01:00 <slimjimflim> but it's ok for google to go around advertising it as open source?
Dec 10 18:01:11 <slimjimflim> that erks me
Dec 10 18:01:29 <fadden> slimjimflim: you can look at the source for anything we advertised as open source
Dec 10 18:01:34 <[nine]> it is opensource.
Dec 10 18:01:51 <tauno> market and maps are not open source
Dec 10 18:02:11 <SanMehat> morning
Dec 10 18:02:19 <tauno> evening*
Dec 10 18:02:21 <[nine]> just because you run a binary module for say your nvidia graphics card, does not mean the distribution below it is not open.
Dec 10 18:02:24 <slimjimflim> i'm sure it's spelled out perfectly somewhere on google.com
Dec 10 18:02:30 <jbq> android is open-source. The apps that google built on top of it that aren't part of the platform aren't necessarily open-source.
Dec 10 18:02:38 <slimjimflim> right
Dec 10 18:02:39 <fadden> tauno: maps is not open source on any of the other mobile platforms it runs on
Dec 10 18:02:41 <[nine]> makes sense that maps and markwet are not open.
Dec 10 18:02:58 <tauno> fadden, I know.. I just informed nine :)
Dec 10 18:03:01 <[nine]> google have to protect some stuff.
Dec 10 18:03:10 <slimjimflim> why would they do that though
Dec 10 18:03:17 <[nine]> what?
Dec 10 18:03:29 * jbq is running a device with only the current open-source tree.
Dec 10 18:03:33 <slimjimflim> not just release maps etc. under gpl or whatever
Dec 10 18:03:35 <fadden> Why would Google make some of their closed-source apps available on an open platform?
Dec 10 18:03:46 <[nine]> maps has to be closed because of the non permissive license for the map data.
Dec 10 18:04:05 <slimjimflim> hm
Dec 10 18:04:08 <[nine]> you'd rather they were not available?
Dec 10 18:04:10 <marix> would be nice to see an opensource market though
Dec 10 18:04:25 <slimjimflim> no, i'm just curious as to why its done the way it is
Dec 10 18:04:36 <slimjimflim> where does the map data come from anyway
Dec 10 18:04:38 <fadden> marix: the G1 can download apps from any web page
Dec 10 18:05:22 <Damm> fadden, or adb install
Dec 10 18:05:24 <Damm> either way it's a win
Dec 10 18:05:27 <slimjimflim> i guess for streetview etc. they have to send people out to take the pics
Dec 10 18:05:28 <jbq> We should look into open-sourcing more apps when it makes sense. It can be more tricky than it seems, though, but with enough effort it can often be done.
Dec 10 18:05:32 <[nine]> map data comes from many sources.
Dec 10 18:06:05 <fadden> Damm: adb install is a bit esoteric for most users, and not available to some
Dec 10 18:06:14 <fadden> For example, "adb" has not been ported to the Amiga.
Dec 10 18:07:10 <[nine]> but the source is there for if you want to port it.
Dec 10 18:07:11 <slimjimflim> do you guys use bluetooth keyboards w/ your phones?
Dec 10 18:07:28 <Damm> slimjimflim, how? no bluetooth keyboard profile
Dec 10 18:07:30 <Damm> afaik
Dec 10 18:07:31 <tauno> fadden, yes, this is a perfectly fine example.. Amiga.. come on :)
Dec 10 18:07:33 <marix> fadden,  i was thinking an alt market app where everythign is free and the source is available for every app.  similar to some of the more "pure" linux distro's out there where everything is open
Dec 10 18:07:47 <Damm> fadden, yeah but if  your connected via USB already... it's easy
Dec 10 18:08:10 <fadden> marix: set one up!
Dec 10 18:08:12 <slimjimflim> that sucks, cause that's that would be the main selling point for me to get an android phone
Dec 10 18:08:22 <[nine]> i suspect adb uses libusb, so that would be the first port of call for an amiga port :)
Dec 10 18:08:28 <slimjimflim> what good is a shell if i have to type w/ my thumbs
Dec 10 18:08:38 <fadden> tauno: I'm personally holding out for an Apple IIgs port
Dec 10 18:08:57 <Damm> slimjimflim, the keyboard is there... and if you want a BT Keyboard profile, and you have a hacked RC30 it's possible
Dec 10 18:09:06 <Damm> otherwise, help out and find a way to make it happen
Dec 10 18:09:19 <slimjimflim> i might
Dec 10 18:09:35 <Damm> I maybe wrong, but afaik it only supports the voice profile atm.
Dec 10 18:09:40 <Damm> that will change in time
Dec 10 18:09:48 <Damm> 2009 will be a good year for Android
Dec 10 18:10:13 <[nine]> free fries to android users in 2009?
Dec 10 18:10:14 <slimjimflim> what kind of companies are actually paying android devs?
Dec 10 18:10:30 <slimjimflim> phone companies, i assume
Dec 10 18:10:47 <slimjimflim> nokia? verizon/att?
Dec 10 18:10:50 <blount> google
Dec 10 18:10:55 <Damm> uh google
Dec 10 18:10:57 <slimjimflim> well yea
Dec 10 18:11:07 <fadden> Android Developer Challenge paid a few
Dec 10 18:11:17 <Damm> AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile... are not so enlighened to pay someone for help with an FOSS project.
Dec 10 18:11:32 <[nine]> nokia stated they were not interested in android, that for linux they'd expand maemo.
Dec 10 18:11:33 <Damm> fadden, right, but that really wasn't towards the android -core..
Dec 10 18:11:45 <marklar> Tmobile's been looking for android devs
Dec 10 18:11:52 <marklar> in Richmond VA
Dec 10 18:11:55 <tauno> don't forget motorola
Dec 10 18:11:57 <slimjimflim> lol@marklar's name
Dec 10 18:11:57 <fadden> Read through the OHA list on android.com
Dec 10 18:12:03 <marklar> don't laugh at my marklar
Dec 10 18:12:03 <Damm> marklar, didn't know they had an office in Richmond.
Dec 10 18:12:13 <marklar> me either, I just saw a posting the other day though
Dec 10 18:13:31 <slimjimflim> well, no way am i moving just to do some little dev work like that, but i might get started on my own and once i have a working model, try to get some people to pay to keep it maintained
Dec 10 18:14:07 <slimjimflim> ever heard of somebody running android on a centro?
Dec 10 18:14:29 <Damm> specially knowing that T-Mobile really is centralized in Bellevue, WA... and the only real callcenter that T-Mobile owns is in NM
Dec 10 18:14:50 <Damm> ... I forgot the callcenter in Bellevue, and err Bellingham (I think is them?)
Dec 10 18:15:16 <marklar> I think this is a reference to the listing I saw: http://www.simplyhired.com/job-id/mxo4layrou/android-mobile-jobs/
Dec 10 18:15:24 <marklar> I was surprised too :)
Dec 10 18:15:51 <marklar> I think it was on Dice.com
Dec 10 18:16:09 <Damm> seems that Vaco is doing it, which is a 'temp agency'.
Dec 10 18:16:17 <Damm> or what I call a Temp Agency, so it's really hard to say who it is.
Dec 10 18:16:58 <marklar> yeah, they look like a staffing company
Dec 10 18:18:42 <marix> tmo has a call center in overland park ks
Dec 10 18:18:51 * BlindOracle is horrified to discover android does not have a standardized messaging/email API
Dec 10 18:19:37 <BlindOracle> worse yet, seemingly, the official position is this is a low priority item, if at all.
Dec 10 18:20:03 <marix> blindoracle,  you've seen how horrid the non google messaging apps are right?
Dec 10 18:20:04 <Damm> marklar, but it's not really t-mobile
Dec 10 18:20:06 <Damm> it's outsourced
Dec 10 18:20:13 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: yah. how dare they focus on speed, battery and reliability first....
Dec 10 18:20:36 <Damm> that's what people fail to understand about T-Mobile... they are 99% outsourced
Dec 10 18:20:47 <BlindOracle> Let's make a phone which allows users to message and browse the Internet! Great! Let's create a standard API for that. What?!? Are you crazy. Who would want to message in a standard way on a platform whos sole purpose is to message and browse.
Dec 10 18:20:50 <marklar> hmm, I'll be honest I stopped reading once I saw Richmond :)
Dec 10 18:21:09 <BlindOracle> Disconnect: that's not the point. http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/c58d75c1ccfe598b
Dec 10 18:21:35 <jbq> BlindOracle: there are Intents that allow to do that right now. If you have some ideas about how to either better document them or add capabilities, head over to the android-framework list :)
Dec 10 18:21:48 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: i don't read threads after xaviar arrives..
Dec 10 18:21:49 <BlindOracle> The way I read that, such concepts are simply not desired and as such, are a very low priority
Dec 10 18:21:54 <Damm> honestly i'm not terribly impressed with how T-Mobile has locked down the US Version with Myfaves... remove myfaves and you break the device without a UK rom
Dec 10 18:22:22 * jbq 's priority right now is the open-source tree.
Dec 10 18:22:56 <marix> damm, can't you just kill the myfaves app and use the website to maintain your faves list?
Dec 10 18:22:56 <Damm> jbq, yeah it's nice to see people working on that... making it more perty!
Dec 10 18:23:05 <Damm> marix, nope
Dec 10 18:23:19 <BlindOracle> Disconnect: to be clear, I absolutely respect the focus on speed, battery life and reliability
Dec 10 18:23:22 <Disconnect> Damm: he's working on making it vaguely released
Dec 10 18:23:37 <Damm> Disconnect, ?
Dec 10 18:23:40 <Damm> who is he?
Dec 10 18:23:44 <Disconnect> Damm: jbq
Dec 10 18:23:47 <Damm> ahh
Dec 10 18:23:50 <marix> speaking of which,  how can i remove amazon music purchasing software,  and myfaves from my phone?
Dec 10 18:23:54 <anno^da_> What is the right way to disable callback methods (onChangeListener etc) untill the UI is restored to the last status. While setting my UI back to the last status (setting checkboxes etc) a lot of callback methods get called that I dont want. Since it is no interaction from the user. What is the right way to handle that. Perhaps now someone can give me THE hint :)
Dec 10 18:24:11 <Disconnect> marix: flash a uk rom
Dec 10 18:24:16 <Disconnect> or call 611 and ask
Dec 10 18:24:31 <Damm> Disconnect, to me google has been more then helpful in the process... however, T-Mobile has always been the stumbling stone.
Dec 10 18:24:51 <Damm> removing myfaves breaks the 'Contacts' application with a T-Mobile US ROM.
Dec 10 18:24:57 <marix> anyone know if the adp1 rom has them?  have we even seen the official adp1 release yet?
Dec 10 18:25:01 <Damm> which then requires you to install the FOSS version of Contacts from the main repo
Dec 10 18:25:26 <Disconnect> again.. remember.. the g1 is a closed-source device. it just happens to use some opensource bits from android.
Dec 10 18:25:50 <Damm> Disconnect, ... the painful reminder
Dec 10 18:26:49 <grantbow> Disconnect, do you have an estimate on what % of the source on a current US T-Mobile device is closed?
Dec 10 18:27:04 <Disconnect> meh. its the difference between bsd-licensed and [l]gpl. always has been. having a reference implementation available is still more open than most platforms.
Dec 10 18:27:24 <Disconnect> grantbow: get me access to tmob's repos so i can see patches, added code, etc and i'll let you know.
Dec 10 18:27:36 <grantbow> lol
Dec 10 18:27:40 <BlindOracle> hehe
Dec 10 18:28:03 <[nine]> i suspect t-mobile don't have a great deal of cource. htc, on the other hand, may have a bit.
Dec 10 18:28:09 <jbq> (nice technically correct answer)
Dec 10 18:28:13 <[nine]> cource? source.
Dec 10 18:28:28 <jbq> of sourse
Dec 10 18:28:36 <[nine]> mmm, sauce.
Dec 10 18:29:12 <grantbow> use the course, Luke
Dec 10 18:29:37 <BlindOracle> Disconnect: is 32 java required to develop for android?
Dec 10 18:29:39 <[nine]> it's the g1 keyboard. still not 100% accurate on it.
Dec 10 18:29:52 <BlindOracle> 32 = 32 bit
Dec 10 18:30:03 <grantbow> [nine] what irc client are you using?
Dec 10 18:30:12 <[nine]> grantbow: irssi.
Dec 10 18:31:15 <[nine]> grantbow: irssi is the one true way, and "ConnectBot" and "screen" is the short explanation :)
Dec 10 18:32:36 <grantbow> [nine] sweet, thanks for the tips
Dec 10 18:32:51 <Disconnect> jbq: (speaking of open source :) ..) can you slide me the in-progress hs bt driver so i can update the tethering patches for garret?
Dec 10 18:33:16 * Disconnect accepts that using it will turn his already low battery life into a desktop-style plug-in-or-die phone.. :)
Dec 10 18:33:48 <dan> is there a android IRC client ?
Dec 10 18:33:57 <jbq> Disconnect: at this point it's far more effective to try to push the entire thing.
Dec 10 18:33:58 <Disconnect> yes.
Dec 10 18:34:17 <Disconnect> jbq: how close are you? just ooc, i know it'll happen when it happens (and hopefully before christmas :) ..)
Dec 10 18:34:21 <[nine]> speaking of battery, just approaching 12h since taking this off charge and the battery display has just turned orange.
Dec 10 18:34:53 <jbq> Disconnect: I don't have visibility over everything that's left to do, so any number I'd give you would have been pulled from a random number generator.
Dec 10 18:35:02 <vol> oh ffs : (
Dec 10 18:35:02 <Disconnect> i blew mine out with about 2 hours of 3g web browsing this morning (google reader and mywoot.net)
Dec 10 18:35:05 <vol> this is amazing
Dec 10 18:35:10 <vol> I've made some change somewhere
Dec 10 18:35:16 <blau-MikeDG> lol
Dec 10 18:35:24 <vol> and now if the screen blacks out
Dec 10 18:35:27 <vol> I can't recover
Dec 10 18:35:29 <vol> key events cause ANR
Dec 10 18:35:29 <blau-MikeDG> my new program is awesome!
Dec 10 18:36:01 <vol> I set a log message at the very top of onTouchEvent, onKeyDown and onKeyUp and they never get called
Dec 10 18:36:26 <grantbow> dan: I think http://ircell.org/ is vaporware - I haven't found anything I could get working yet
Dec 10 18:37:12 <dan> there is a lot of IRC android client vaporware out there
Dec 10 18:37:30 <grantbow> yeah
Dec 10 18:37:58 <dan> does Flash work in the browser on a g1 ?
Dec 10 18:39:02 <vol> no
Dec 10 18:39:04 <blau-MikeDG> 12-10 13:30:22.833: ERROR/WindowManager(4799): Activity com.blau.android.quicklaunch.QuickLaunch has leaked window android.widget.PopupWindow$PopupViewContainer@430a5590 that was originally added here
Dec 10 18:39:06 <marix> dan,  meebo works... kinda http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.freenode.net&channel=%23android in browser
Dec 10 18:39:07 <blau-MikeDG> what does that mean
Dec 10 18:39:45 <grantbow> marix: nice
Dec 10 18:42:04 <marix> grantbow,  not really... you cna't scroll up and the user list is useless,  but it is a bit more solid against disconnects than other browser based irc
Dec 10 18:42:33 <vol> Ah, figured it out.
Dec 10 18:42:46 <vol> reenabling the keyguard when it hasn't been disabled will cause this problem :P
Dec 10 18:42:59 <grantbow> marix, ok, interesting
Dec 10 18:43:00 <vol> s/hasn't been disabled/was never enabled/
Dec 10 18:43:06 <vol> which is REALLY WIERD
Dec 10 18:43:19 <blau-MikeDG> vol, ive almost positive ive done that
Dec 10 18:43:43 <blau-MikeDG> enabledkeyguard multiple times
Dec 10 18:44:02 <tauno_> someone should add autocomplete support to the search box @ http://code.google.com/android/reference/ :)
Dec 10 18:44:17 <blau-MikeDG> what search box?
Dec 10 18:44:28 <blau-MikeDG> oh in the docs?
Dec 10 18:44:43 <blau-MikeDG> it is there
Dec 10 18:48:10 <vol> blau-MikeDG: So, what's the deal with disabling/reenabling it? Does it have some sort of stack where you have to disable the keyguard before  reenabling it, even if it was disabled in the first place?
Dec 10 18:48:19 <vol> or if it's disabled will reenabling always cause an error?
Dec 10 18:50:40 <uncleD> i just need to store a simple string....what would be the best? Database or File?
Dec 10 18:52:25 <bherrmann> Not happy:  Bought a used g1.   Bought T-Mobile Flex Plan with G1 Data service yesterday, still can't activate phone.
Dec 10 18:52:33 <vol> http://code.google.com/android/devel/data/preferences.html
Dec 10 18:52:38 <vol> might want to use that, uncleD
Dec 10 18:52:56 <vol> simpler than files or db
Dec 10 18:53:13 <jsharkey> uncleD: preferences framework?
Dec 10 18:53:19 <marix> bherrman,  contact tmo support
Dec 10 18:54:06 <jsharkey> uncleD: SharedPreferences.Editor.putString()
Dec 10 18:54:16 <bherrmann> matrix: yes,  tmo support is what's in my future.   Can't wait to endure that.
Dec 10 18:54:17 <vol> jsharkey: too late :>
Dec 10 18:54:23 <vol> bherrmann: not that bad, really.
Dec 10 18:54:29 <vol> Call, say "support", then say "G1"
Dec 10 18:54:35 <vol> that will take you to blackberry/g1 support
Dec 10 18:54:39 <marix> bherrmann,  best in industry from my experience
Dec 10 18:54:39 <vol> where the people are clueful
Dec 10 18:54:46 <vol> and won't ask you to power cycle your phone
Dec 10 18:54:50 <vol> (unless you should)
Dec 10 18:54:55 <vol> (actually they might anyway)
Dec 10 18:55:05 <uncleD> vol: but i may be adding or removing strings in my activity.....
Dec 10 18:55:14 <bherrmann> I did try a power cycle, tried creating a new gmail account, tried my existing gmail account
Dec 10 18:56:00 <jsharkey> uncleD: if they are fairly static, might want to consider strings.xml
Dec 10 18:56:18 <marix> bherrmann,  contact them seriously
Dec 10 18:57:05 <vol> uncleD: you said you wanted to store "a" string
Dec 10 18:57:24 <uncleD> sorry about that...
Dec 10 18:57:27 <vol> if you want to store may strings, then use a file or a db
Dec 10 18:57:28 <bherrmann> marix: ok. thx.  I mostly needed to vent.  I will call after this 2pm meeting that I'm going to.
Dec 10 18:57:29 <vol> many
Dec 10 18:57:35 <unix_lappy> gawsh, 3G eats up mucho juice, 1 hour on 3G consumes nearly 10% idling vs 3% on 2G
Dec 10 18:57:37 <vol> it really depends on your type of app
Dec 10 18:58:08 <uncleD> ok thanks vol
Dec 10 18:58:14 <marix> bherrmann,  np they are really good about g1 support  just dont wanna get into it in a dev channel like this.
Dec 10 19:00:52 <Disconnect> ..i thought #android-dev was the dev channel.
Dec 10 19:02:05 <marix> sorry what i ment to say was, " TMobile sucks dick,  why can't they get their shit together with this phone etc..."
Dec 10 19:03:16 <Disconnect> wow, classy.
Dec 10 19:03:38 <marix> which is why i tried to avoid open venting in the channel.
Dec 10 19:04:16 <bherrmann> marix: ok, I'm enlightened... somewhat.
Dec 10 19:27:47 <vol> http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html
Dec 10 19:27:55 <vol> this is now mysteriously missing the usb installation instructions
Dec 10 19:28:48 <vol> I had to use the google cache of the page to give to another developer
Dec 10 19:29:25 <fadden> vol: they're supposed to come back soon
Dec 10 19:29:33 <fadden> Something went wrong when the pages got pushed.
Dec 10 19:29:43 * vol shakes his fist
Dec 10 19:46:42 <dan> where is the bitch about my g1 channel anyway ?
Dec 10 19:48:36 <bherrmann> Shouldn't there separate bitch about: t-mobile, htc, google, oha channels?
Dec 10 19:51:19 <KNY> those channels exist, try /join #nobody-cares
Dec 10 19:51:21 <KNY> :)
Dec 10 19:53:24 <blount> KNY++
Dec 10 19:53:36 <infernixx> well, my sdcard corruption woes are far from over
Dec 10 19:54:01 <infernixx> bought a brand new sandisk card. mkfs.vfat -c: Searching for bad blocks 78688... 157280... 235744... 314704... 394080... 473184... 552416... 631008... 709856... 788832... 868320... 948192... 1027424... 1107040... 1186400...
Dec 10 19:54:20 <infernixx> but a full badblocks -t 0x00 -t 0xff -t random -w shoes no badblocks
Dec 10 19:55:11 <unix_lappy> how would i go about creating a toggle switch for 3G on / off using anycut?
Dec 10 19:55:23 <vol> ... shoes?
Dec 10 19:55:28 <infernixx> *shows :0
Dec 10 19:55:31 <vol> oh
Dec 10 19:55:37 <vol> I thought there was -w shoes or something
Dec 10 19:56:06 <infernixx> vol: your shoes support badblock scanning? impressive.
Dec 10 19:56:19 <ipauldev> not exactly android related but has anyone else noticed DNS issues the last two days with tmomail.net
Dec 10 19:56:29 * infernixx cross compiles badblocks for G1
Dec 10 19:58:00 <unix_lappy> anyone?
Dec 10 19:59:35 <vol> ipauldev: I've been getting a message for the last week that I have voicemail (I don't), I don't think that's related though.
Dec 10 20:04:34 <kirberich> any word on shipped dev phones yet?
Dec 10 20:05:13 <kirberich> it's three p.m. on the day they said they'd ship those ordered on the weekend, so they better get to it ;)
Dec 10 20:05:18 <eggy> they look nice
Dec 10 20:09:22 <tauno_> why oh why does vibration need permissions?
Dec 10 20:09:27 <rb2k> hi there
Dec 10 20:09:44 <rb2k> does anybody know how long the dev phones usually take to arrive?
Dec 10 20:09:54 <rb2k> (from the time of ordering them online)
Dec 10 20:09:57 <rb2k> (to the US)
Dec 10 20:09:59 <vol> too long ._.
Dec 10 20:09:59 <tauno_> a casual app has a permissionlist of 3+ items.. and users don't bother to read them anymore at all..
Dec 10 20:10:13 <BlindOra`> rb2k: rumor hasit they will be sent out three days after the order is placed
Dec 10 20:10:14 <vol> tauno_: giggidy?
Dec 10 20:10:15 <bherrmann> why would somebody buy a dev phone and not a used g1 ?
Dec 10 20:10:20 <vol> bherrmann: root
Dec 10 20:10:27 <vol> assurance that the device isn't screwed up somehow
Dec 10 20:10:38 <bherrmann> can't root be tricked up
Dec 10 20:10:45 <vol> huh?
Dec 10 20:10:47 <Disconnect> bherrmann: the pretty back cover
Dec 10 20:10:50 <tauno_> vol, by vibrations? :P
Dec 10 20:10:53 <BlindOra`> and I can't imagine the used market on the supply side is all that large
Dec 10 20:10:53 <bherrmann> back cover is nice
Dec 10 20:10:58 <rb2k> @vol: too long as in "2 weeks" or "2 months" or "as far as I know none of them arrived so far" :)
Dec 10 20:11:08 <vol> rb2k: I haven't ordered any yet
Dec 10 20:11:20 <vol> tauno_: I was talking to bherrman
Dec 10 20:11:22 <bherrmann> I've been seeing used ones around here, Boston, going for about $300
Dec 10 20:11:26 <vol> except for when Iw as talking to you
Dec 10 20:11:26 <tauno_> vol, sry
Dec 10 20:11:59 <vol> tauno_: I do agree though, it is annoying that every app has permissions for full internet access
Dec 10 20:12:03 <vol> and you have no idea what they actually do
Dec 10 20:12:14 <vol> a permission for "Check for updates in the marketplace" would be nice
Dec 10 20:12:21 <vol> along with some sort of method by which this can be achieved
Dec 10 20:13:55 <Disconnect> not to come back around, but seriously.. temporary permissions.
Dec 10 20:14:07 <ivantis> man i cant wait for my G1 to come in the mail
Dec 10 20:14:17 <ivantis> 2-4 mail days, i ordered it last night
Dec 10 20:14:29 <Disconnect> "this app might need <X, Y, Z>. permit [forever], [ask] each time"
Dec 10 20:14:47 <vol> sounds like UAC :\
Dec 10 20:14:49 <Disconnect> .."app foo is trying to reach the internet. [permit] [deny] [permit forever] [deny forever]
Dec 10 20:15:04 <Disconnect> its way older than that.
Dec 10 20:15:09 <vol> "You are trying to delete this file you just created. Allow/Deny?"
Dec 10 20:15:35 <vol> of course, everyone is just going to hit "allow forever"
Dec 10 20:15:41 <vol> or they'll hit "deny forever" and fume
Dec 10 20:15:44 <Disconnect> but right now people are being trained to always allow everything no matter what.
Dec 10 20:15:46 <vol> and half of your users will have NO idea how to undo this
Dec 10 20:15:52 <rb2k> BlindOra`:thanks for the info
Dec 10 20:15:53 <Disconnect> its easy enough to use a wikipedia app without gps. seriously.
Dec 10 20:15:59 <vol> haha
Dec 10 20:16:18 <vol> This is a well known security issue
Dec 10 20:16:19 <Disconnect> but the answer isn't "i don't want gps" the answer is "don't use this app" (or, for teh developer, "produce 12 different variants of your app, with 12 permission sets")
Dec 10 20:16:33 <vol> users just get conditioned to blindly hit "ok" to these dialogs
Dec 10 20:16:37 <ivantis> i watched that "Look at creating an android app", does the user have to grant apps permission to like place a call, or view their contact list and stuff?
Dec 10 20:16:41 <vol> or say "I don't care" and hit allow forever
Dec 10 20:16:56 <vol> ivantis: yes
Dec 10 20:17:04 <vol> the application will ask for a set of permissions when being installed
Dec 10 20:17:09 <vol> the user can continue installation or cancel
Dec 10 20:17:09 <ivantis> is it a one time thing?
Dec 10 20:17:15 <vol> yes, one time, at install time
Dec 10 20:17:16 <ivantis> oh i see
Dec 10 20:17:19 <vol> also, all or nothing
Dec 10 20:17:23 <spark___> anyone here with an android dev 1 yet?
Dec 10 20:17:26 <vol> you can't grant 1 permission and forbid others
Dec 10 20:17:52 <ivantis> unless you mess around with it and remove the other permissions?
Dec 10 20:18:20 <ivantis> er, needs, whatever they are called
Dec 10 20:18:32 <vol> if by "mess around with it" you mean "recompile and reinstall" then I guess
Dec 10 20:18:53 <vol> apps will specify that they will use permissions x y z. you can either continue installation, or cancel it.
Dec 10 20:19:05 <vol> you cannot pick and choose which permissions to allow
Dec 10 20:19:15 <vol> (which I find unfortunate, I may only trust an app enough to have cell tower location, not gps, for example)
Dec 10 20:19:43 <ivantis> something like that flash alert "Give this site access to your web-cam?"
Dec 10 20:19:59 <Disconnect> except it happens when you install firefox and never asks again. and if you say no it says "ok" and refuses to install.
Dec 10 20:20:22 <vol> which is to say, firefox refuses to install.
Dec 10 20:20:34 <ivantis> already firefox for android?
Dec 10 20:20:38 <vol> no >:\
Dec 10 20:20:41 <vol> it is an exmaple
Dec 10 20:20:44 <vol> *example
Dec 10 20:20:44 <ivantis> ah
Dec 10 20:20:47 <vol> ex maple, maybe.
Dec 10 20:20:56 <BlindOracle> vol: shouldn't tease like that ;)
Dec 10 20:21:13 <vol> ;D
Dec 10 20:21:16 <ivantis> do apps need permission to use your internet through your phone?
Dec 10 20:21:20 <Disconnect> yes
Dec 10 20:21:23 <vol> yes
Dec 10 20:21:28 <vol> they need permission to do anything remotely interesting
Dec 10 20:21:43 <ivantis> G1s can connect to a home-router with wi-fi, right?
Dec 10 20:21:43 <Disconnect> and some of them use it for updates. at least one has been spotted that uses it for evil. and several are out there that use it to report gps location of the users.
Dec 10 20:21:45 * BlindOracle is happy security is an important element of the system
Dec 10 20:21:48 <vol> view contacts, make calls, use the vibrator, read sms, use internet, use gps, etc etc etc
Dec 10 20:21:51 <vol> yes, G1 has wifi
Dec 10 20:22:01 <vol> Disconnect: which?
Dec 10 20:22:02 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: you're kidding right?
Dec 10 20:22:10 <vol> heh
Dec 10 20:22:18 <vol> perhaps you have not heard of this innovation known as "sarcasm"
Dec 10 20:22:29 <BlindOracle> hehe
Dec 10 20:22:37 <vol> argh
Dec 10 20:22:42 <vol> why won't my emulator go to sleep : (
Dec 10 20:22:47 * vol is testing keyguard stuff
Dec 10 20:22:52 <ivantis> T-Mobile shipped my G1 on UPS 2-day, it should come tomorrow or the next day
Dec 10 20:22:53 <BlindOracle> I was just pondering what it would be like if this was a MS product...sorry...thought made it to the keyboard
Dec 10 20:22:56 <ivantis> so excited!
Dec 10 20:23:05 <tauno_> I mean.. currently if you want to install a game that allows to submit highscores, then it asks for: *full internet access *vibration *wake lock etc.. vibration and wake lock are two things that the users don't care about.. or do you imagine someone who denies an app isntall because it uses the vibrator?..
Dec 10 20:23:10 <vol> BlindOracle: funny you mention hat, I'm installing security patches for EXCEL
Dec 10 20:23:29 <BlindOracle> hehe
Dec 10 20:23:42 <ivantis> the vibrator? well what if it was obnoxious and vibrated you every five seconds?
Dec 10 20:23:44 <BlindOracle> err..."hehe" wasn't appropriate. I'm sorry.
Dec 10 20:23:45 <fadden> vol: adb shell dumpsys power
Dec 10 20:23:54 <vol> fadden: <3
Dec 10 20:24:15 <tauno_> ivantis, then I would uninstall the app and problem solved.. how does the permission asking prevent it from vibrating? the user installs it anyway
Dec 10 20:24:46 <ivantis> is there a process list on android? like to kill unresponsive apps? like ps -e;kill -9 <PID> on a linux system
Dec 10 20:24:59 <vol> fadden: sigh. There are 2 screen locks; StayOnWhilePluggedIn Screen Dim and Partial
Dec 10 20:25:04 <Disconnect> ivantis: use the terminal, as root.
Dec 10 20:25:04 <vol> how do I "unplug" the emulator? :\
Dec 10 20:25:10 <tauno_> ..no way on earth a user simply refuses to install an app just because it asks during install time if it can use the vibrator - that makes this permission pointless IMO
Dec 10 20:25:17 <Disconnect> and for the record, don't "kill -9" stuff. use normal kill.
Dec 10 20:25:20 <vol> ivantis: doesn't work that way.
Dec 10 20:25:32 <ivantis> Disconnect: im getting mine from t-mobile, obnoxiously they dont give you root
Dec 10 20:25:36 <fadden> If "kill" doesn't work (due to perms), use the "kill" button in DDMS.
Dec 10 20:25:37 <vol> if a process is unresponsive, android asks if you want to kill it
Dec 10 20:25:52 <vol> fadden: was that to me?
Dec 10 20:25:54 <Disconnect> ivantis: sure they do, if its pre-rc30
Dec 10 20:25:56 <ivantis> hopefully as successful as on OS X
Dec 10 20:25:58 <vol> I don't see anything interesting running :\
Dec 10 20:26:03 <ivantis> pre-rc30?
Dec 10 20:26:04 <fadden> vol: ivantis mostly
Dec 10 20:26:09 <ivantis> i ordered it yesterday
Dec 10 20:26:24 <Disconnect> so?
Dec 10 20:26:29 <vol> ivantis: previous to version RC30, you can jailbreak your phone
Dec 10 20:26:36 * Disconnect seriously doubts they shredded and landfilled all the existing stock
Dec 10 20:26:40 <Disconnect> its possible i guess.
Dec 10 20:26:41 <ivantis> will it be pre-rc30 if i ordered it yesterday?
Dec 10 20:26:44 <vol> no
Dec 10 20:26:47 <ivantis> possibly
Dec 10 20:26:50 <vol> we actually just got a couple phones today
Dec 10 20:26:52 <vol> they were RC30
Dec 10 20:26:55 <ivantis> they cant have sold all of them
Dec 10 20:27:00 <bherrmann> can you move an RC30 to RC29 ?
Dec 10 20:27:04 <vol> no
Dec 10 20:27:23 <ivantis> well, i found that thing about using telnetd, which runs as root
Dec 10 20:27:30 <vol> ivantis: that's pre RC30
Dec 10 20:27:36 <ivantis> FUKC
Dec 10 20:27:45 <vol> fadden: is there a way to "disconnect" the "power" to the emulator?
Dec 10 20:27:53 <vol> so that the damn wake locks don't prevent it from sleeping? :\
Dec 10 20:27:56 <fadden> vol: I don't know
Dec 10 20:28:04 <vol> this keeps happening...
Dec 10 20:28:05 <ttuttle> Hey, does anyone know of a decent password manager for Android?
Dec 10 20:28:07 <vol> grr.
Dec 10 20:28:08 <ivantis> vol: disconnect the power from your computer
Dec 10 20:28:11 <vol> ha.
Dec 10 20:28:30 <fadden> vol: you can turn off the "stay awake while plugged in" in the settings though
Dec 10 20:28:32 <ivantis> vol: what OS?
Dec 10 20:28:54 <ivantis> the emulator phails on my ubuntu
Dec 10 20:28:59 <ivantis> i havent tried it on my OS X yet
Dec 10 20:29:17 <Disconnect> (and there is a way back. its just not public.)
Dec 10 20:29:37 <vol> ivantis: linux and windows
Dec 10 20:29:41 <vol> fadden: doh, that might be set
Dec 10 20:29:56 <vol> Disconnect: so which app uses its permissions for evil?
Dec 10 20:29:59 <vol> you didn't say : (
Dec 10 20:30:10 * vol prepares his uninstallin' fingers
Dec 10 20:30:14 <Disconnect> you're right, i didn't. must have been an oversight.
Dec 10 20:30:19 <vol> : \
Dec 10 20:30:36 <mikey|> in adb shell, when you run top, what do thr, vss and rss stand for?
Dec 10 20:30:48 <Disconnect> should spend more time with tcpdump
Dec 10 20:30:57 <vol> Disconnect: I've got about 100 apps installed...
Dec 10 20:31:07 <vol> I'm not going to run tcpdump on ALL of them.
Dec 10 20:31:08 <ivantis> so there will be no way to get root on my t-mobile G1?
Dec 10 20:31:13 <vol> ivantis: not yet
Dec 10 20:31:25 <vol> but honestly unless you're doing on device native C++ code debugging
Dec 10 20:31:31 <vol> or trying to do some crazy hardware hacking
Dec 10 20:31:33 <vol> it's not a big deal
Dec 10 20:31:37 <vol> you can still install anything you want
Dec 10 20:31:40 <fadden> vol: Applications -> Debugging -> Stay awake  appears to default to "off" on a real device but "on" on the emulator
Dec 10 20:31:52 <vol> fadden: awesome, my emulator doesn't have the settings apk
Dec 10 20:31:53 <ivantis> and does android have an sshd yet?
Dec 10 20:31:54 <vol> \o/ rad
Dec 10 20:32:05 <vol> ivantis: ok, rooted android phones do.
Dec 10 20:32:08 <vol> I guess you have a point there.
Dec 10 20:32:09 <fadden> mikey|: number of threads, virtual set size, real set size
Dec 10 20:32:15 <Disconnect> ivantis: yes but you have to build it yourself
Dec 10 20:32:21 <mikey|> cheers fadden
Dec 10 20:32:24 <ivantis> build it myself?
Dec 10 20:32:29 <Disconnect> http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/2
Dec 10 20:32:34 <tauno_> vol, dl the new sdk - it includes the settings afaik
Dec 10 20:32:34 <fadden> vol: you have a rooted G1?
Dec 10 20:33:07 <ivantis> on my ubuntu i run lshd
Dec 10 20:33:14 <ivantis> dropbear? never heard of it
Dec 10 20:33:21 <vol> fadden: NO : (
Dec 10 20:33:21 <vol> er
Dec 10 20:33:22 <vol> no : (
Dec 10 20:33:31 <Slackwise__> You know what'd be awesome?
Dec 10 20:33:39 <Slackwise__> A security keyfob for your Gmail account.
Dec 10 20:33:39 <vol> two chicks at the same time
Dec 10 20:33:44 <vol> oh
Dec 10 20:33:45 <vol> that too
Dec 10 20:33:46 <Slackwise__> Even more awesome? If your G1 could act as one.
Dec 10 20:34:00 <vol> Slackwise__: that sounds like an awesome way to get your phone stolen :D
Dec 10 20:34:11 <ivantis> wouldnt lshd run on android with little or no changing?
Dec 10 20:34:17 <ivantis> it doesnt have any display stuff
Dec 10 20:34:22 <Slackwise> vol: Pfft. My phone is soldered to my arm.
Dec 10 20:34:38 <vol> time to restart windows machine, brb
Dec 10 20:36:29 <Disconnect> ivantis: dropbear - http://tinyurl.com/5mxpsv
Dec 10 20:37:42 * unix_lappy wishes qsearch was better designed for portrait mode.
Dec 10 20:38:20 <ivantis> Disconnect: can i run that dropbear thing on android without root?
Dec 10 20:38:39 <Disconnect> probably. it will just use the 'shell' account.
Dec 10 20:39:30 <ivantis> why does android not support C++?
Dec 10 20:39:34 <ivantis> i want perl for android
Dec 10 20:39:39 <ivantis> NOW
Dec 10 20:39:50 <ivantis> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=668179
Dec 10 20:40:27 <mikey|> good or bad: http://paste2.org/p/113888
Dec 10 20:43:51 <ivantis> so how do i put an app on my phone once i have written it?
Dec 10 20:44:04 * unix_lappy is doubly amused by ivantis whining when I read out his nick.
Dec 10 20:44:25 <mikey|> adb install
Dec 10 20:44:25 <ivantis> hilarious
Dec 10 20:44:33 <ivantis> adb install?
Dec 10 20:44:41 <ivantis> but how do i get it from my computer to the phone?
Dec 10 20:45:15 <mikey|> download the sdk on your pc, install the usb driver, navigate to <path to sdk>/tools
Dec 10 20:45:19 <mikey|> adb.exe install
Dec 10 20:45:54 <mikey|> unix_lappy: do those stats look ok to you? thats in the emulator, my app is idle
Dec 10 20:47:23 <ivantis> so i can connect my G1 to my computer via USB?
Dec 10 20:47:55 <mikey|> im pretty sure thats why they included a usb cable
Dec 10 20:48:03 <ivantis> i havent gotten it yet!
Dec 10 20:48:08 <ivantis> its still in the mail
Dec 10 20:48:28 <ivantis> tomorrow or the next day it should come
Dec 10 20:48:33 <Disconnect> ..so maybe you should spend time at android.com under the 'developers' section
Dec 10 20:48:59 <ttuttle> Hey, anyone know what algorithms Android's javax.crypto provides?
Dec 10 20:49:32 <ivantis> can apps (re-)open themselves?
Dec 10 20:49:41 <ivantis> or do they have to be started by the user?
Dec 10 20:49:52 <d0nets> yea but its lame
Dec 10 20:49:55 <d0nets> not all usb cables work
Dec 10 20:50:05 <d0nets> my retractable ones dont work
Dec 10 20:50:16 <ttuttle> d0nets: The retractable ones don't meet spec.
Dec 10 20:50:19 <ttuttle> d0nets: (AFAIK)
Dec 10 20:50:30 <ttuttle> d0nets: I had one, and it kept crashing my external soundcard.
Dec 10 20:53:54 <brocktice> so, no updates on the dev phone tracking page yet
Dec 10 20:53:56 <brocktice> today is day 3
Dec 10 20:53:58 <brocktice> :(
Dec 10 20:54:19 <spark___> brocktice: you were expecting to have received your dev phone by now?
Dec 10 20:54:27 <d0nets> yea i need to know about the dev phone
Dec 10 20:54:34 <d0nets> i need to know if i should ebay this one
Dec 10 20:54:35 <brocktice> spark___, No, they said they'd ship 3 business days after order
Dec 10 20:54:42 <d0nets> i only have 7 days to ship my old one back
Dec 10 20:54:43 <brocktice> And that the track order page should work once it shipped
Dec 10 20:54:52 <vol> ivantis: development for the phone is srsly easy.
Dec 10 20:54:56 <brocktice> track order page shows nothing, so it's either broken or it hasn't shipped.
Dec 10 20:55:01 <vol> Go download the sdk and program against the emulator
Dec 10 20:55:02 <spark___> brocktice: hm, right
Dec 10 20:55:11 <vol> it's pretty much the same thing as what's on the phone, no unexpected surprises
Dec 10 20:55:12 <spark___> brocktice: and you ordered it on the 7th?
Dec 10 20:55:21 * brocktice checks
Dec 10 20:55:24 <brocktice> (this weekend sometime)
Dec 10 20:55:40 <brocktice> 6th
Dec 10 20:56:03 <fadden> vol: (older topic) I believe you can get the Settings APK by building the open-source release.
Dec 10 20:56:05 <spark___> brocktice: 3 business days, so maybe they mean tomorrow
Dec 10 20:56:16 <brocktice> Maybe, we'll see.
Dec 10 20:56:26 <brocktice> I wouldn't have brought it up except that I know others are wondering.
Dec 10 20:56:30 <ivantis> mine says 2-4 mail days, so tomorrow, or the next day, or the next day
Dec 10 20:56:41 <ivantis> ordered yesterday
Dec 10 20:56:44 <brocktice> ivantis, your tracking page?
Dec 10 20:56:49 <ivantis> yes
Dec 10 20:56:52 <brocktice> goddamnit
Dec 10 20:57:07 <ivantis> my mail comes late in the day, hopefully tomorrow
Dec 10 20:57:15 <spark___> brocktice: I'm in the Netherlands; and have to pay about 175 dollars shipping costs, so I'm waiting to see whether is worth the money (waiting for the first responses from Americans receiving their dev-phones)
Dec 10 20:57:36 <ivantis> $175 shipping?
Dec 10 20:57:40 <spark___> yes
Dec 10 20:57:42 <brocktice> fwiw people said the tracking status disappeared
Dec 10 20:57:47 <brocktice> that includes customs fees
Dec 10 20:57:51 <ivantis> USD, or Euro or whatever you use in the netherlands?
Dec 10 20:57:53 <michaelnovakjr__> Spark does it come in a gold special edition case?
Dec 10 20:58:02 <spark___> michaelnovakjr: it better! ;)
Dec 10 20:58:07 <brocktice> but said the tracking status showed a little while after ordering.
Dec 10 20:58:12 <ivantis> mine comes in a diamond case
Dec 10 20:58:18 <brocktice> So maybe they shipped it and my tracking display is broken...
Dec 10 20:58:23 <Disconnect> brocktice: take a look at the candian breakdown on the list. its something like 3x the actual import cost :(
Dec 10 20:58:23 <ivantis> it comes stuck inside a diamond
Dec 10 20:58:31 <spark___> but really, I consider myself somewhat lucky even; Canadians need to pay about 240 us dollars shipping costs
Dec 10 20:58:34 <brocktice> Disconnect, That's lame.
Dec 10 20:59:41 * sparkle sparks
Dec 10 21:00:39 <brocktice> emailed the brighthand people again, so we'll see what they say.
Dec 10 21:00:49 <brocktice> er brightstar
Dec 10 21:02:29 <Disconnect> actual devs on the list asking for temporary/optional permissions now also
Dec 10 21:02:50 <BlindOracle> what is the "zygote" process??!?
Dec 10 21:03:14 <rb2k> it's not only shipping costs btw
Dec 10 21:03:22 <vol> BlindOracle: it's what's running your apps
Dec 10 21:03:24 <rb2k> apparantly this includes VAT / Customs
Dec 10 21:03:31 <rb2k> never the less: too much money
Dec 10 21:03:37 <fadden> BlindOracle: check the PPID column in "ps"
Dec 10 21:03:43 <jasta> BlindOracle: its a prewarmed VM used to start applications.
Dec 10 21:04:05 <spark___> rb2k: indeed, I informed about the costs using an intermediary service; still around 550 dollars to get it overhere
Dec 10 21:04:06 <tripps> would it be an accurate statement to say android is a true preemptive multitasking OS as implemented, and iphone is not?
Dec 10 21:04:08 <BlindOracle> I see...I was looking at top
Dec 10 21:04:46 <tripps> as symbian, palmos, etc. are also not?
Dec 10 21:04:49 <BlindOracle> tripps: android is running linux. so yes, it's a true preemptive, multitasking ok
Dec 10 21:04:52 <BlindOracle> ok=os
Dec 10 21:05:12 <BlindOracle> i can't speak about iphone
Dec 10 21:05:30 <tripps> BlindOracle, right, but iphone is running a *nix kernel as well, but it doesn't have the same capabilities in this area (by design, perhaps?)
Dec 10 21:05:47 <Disconnect> rb2k: right. customs to canada, with brokerage, is $55USD or so. shipping is $250.
Dec 10 21:05:49 <sparkle> tripps: iphone is preemptively multitasking
Dec 10 21:05:56 <sparkle> but the UI is designed around a single-app paradigm
Dec 10 21:06:57 <ivantis> $250 CA dollars or $250 USD?
Dec 10 21:06:58 <rb2k> Disconnect, for Germany, it's about 100 usd off :)
Dec 10 21:07:08 <brocktice> ivantis, they're about 1:1 now
Dec 10 21:07:12 <BlindOracle> possible to get emacs key bindings in shell?
Dec 10 21:07:16 <ivantis> really?
Dec 10 21:07:16 <tripps> sparkle, ok. perhaps dealing in semantics - how does that differ in implementation/usability? here I'm talking about using apps and switching between them seamlessly where they left off and not background processes, etc.
Dec 10 21:07:18 <spark___> rb2k: have you looked at other ways of importing?
Dec 10 21:07:37 <rb2k> yes :)
Dec 10 21:07:41 <rb2k> already ordered it
Dec 10 21:08:00 <rb2k> luckily people tend to come to germany over christmas :)
Dec 10 21:08:03 <BlindOracle> set -o emacs doesn't seem to do it
Dec 10 21:08:05 <ivantis> google calc: 250 Canadian dollars = 199.48925 U.S. dollars
Dec 10 21:08:15 <tripps> for example, love the ability to watch youtube vid on G1, get email notify, check email, respond to email, return back to youtube right where I left off. can the iphone do this?
Dec 10 21:08:19 <Dougie187> any of you guys put android on your touch yet?
Dec 10 21:08:34 <sparkle> tripps: no idea
Dec 10 21:08:38 <sparkle> symbian can for sure
Dec 10 21:09:18 <tripps> sparkle, right (I have an E61i), but it chokes if you have anything more running in my experience
Dec 10 21:09:45 <marix> tripps,  all 3rd party apps for the iphone can only be ran,  one at a time.
Dec 10 21:10:02 <BlindOracle> marix: ??? really?
Dec 10 21:10:03 * sparkle nods
Dec 10 21:10:07 <ivantis> how lame
Dec 10 21:10:08 <sparkle> i almost went for an E90
Dec 10 21:10:08 <Disconnect> i don't recall who was claiming i was on crack for having issues with the backlight on brown/white g1s.. http://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/2008-December/000196.html its not just me.
Dec 10 21:10:15 <sparkle> there are still things i miss about it
Dec 10 21:10:24 <sparkle> but the unix foundation on the g1 has been very handy for me
Dec 10 21:10:41 * Disconnect loved his e90 but hates nokia support..
Dec 10 21:10:44 <brocktice> Disconnect, I used to have that problem with my macbook pro
Dec 10 21:10:51 <brocktice> medium backlighting on the silver keys
Dec 10 21:11:02 <brocktice> At least that was adjustable
Dec 10 21:11:04 <Disconnect> yah i've got a mbp that is silver-on-silver in any dusk lighting. conveniently, it matches the g1 :(
Dec 10 21:11:06 <ivantis> downloading the sdk right now
Dec 10 21:11:09 * sparkle chuckles
Dec 10 21:11:38 <sparkle> i want to fit a red filter to my g1 screen for night stuff
Dec 10 21:11:40 <brocktice> actually it was a powerbook, now that I think about it
Dec 10 21:11:41 <sparkle> but
Dec 10 21:11:49 <sparkle> needs to be thin enough to let the touchscreen work well
Dec 10 21:11:51 <Disconnect> well its just as bad on the mbp :)
Dec 10 21:11:53 <brocktice> You know, one of those obsolete machines
Dec 10 21:12:04 <Disconnect> sparkle: stage lighting gels
Dec 10 21:12:05 <BlindOracle> marix: when you say run one at a time, do you mean one third party app must terminate before another can run?
Dec 10 21:12:21 <marix> blindoracle,  thats the way i understand it yes
Dec 10 21:12:29 <BlindOracle> marix: ouch. That's horrible
Dec 10 21:12:37 <marix> thats why im apps are a joke on it
Dec 10 21:12:47 <BlindOracle> ic
Dec 10 21:13:00 <Disconnect> lol. "please tell me about all the secret settings so I don't have to fin the on my own" i love users.
Dec 10 21:13:15 * sparkle nods
Dec 10 21:13:25 <sparkle> then i just need to figure out how to turn off kb backlighting
Dec 10 21:13:31 <marix> you can't stay logged in to im and still do other stuff,  its truely laughable.
Dec 10 21:13:37 <Disconnect> http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/browse_thread/thread/07959635ce5bf8e2/
Dec 10 21:13:47 <brocktice> marix, No wonder they're so much snappier than the G1.
Dec 10 21:14:45 <BlindOracle> brocktice: ?
Dec 10 21:15:07 <BlindOracle> brocktice: single app running at a time?
Dec 10 21:15:10 <brocktice> BlindOracle, From playing with other people's iphones, they seem a lot more responsive than the G1
Dec 10 21:15:21 <brocktice> That approach certainly has its downsides.
Dec 10 21:15:38 <brocktice> such as the aforementioned concurrent-app limitation.
Dec 10 21:16:00 <marix> yea,  streaming audio basically forces you to do that and nothing else.
Dec 10 21:16:01 <BlindOracle> brocktice: that could be a number of issues
Dec 10 21:16:02 <ivantis> on my UPS tracking thing it says "Billing Information Received" as the status, will it come soon?
Dec 10 21:16:22 <alexissoft> brocktice: but the iphone uses tricks to make things appear faster than they're really are
Dec 10 21:16:27 <BlindOracle> brocktice: but lowering the priority of an app which it is running in the background would likely help with that stuff
Dec 10 21:16:35 <brocktice> alexissoft, oh?
Dec 10 21:16:47 <alexissoft> the official apps are using screenshot of the last saved state they display when you load the app
Dec 10 21:16:48 <BlindOracle> alexissoft: sadly, studies show people care about stuff like that
Dec 10 21:16:58 <alexissoft> while the app finishes to load
Dec 10 21:16:59 <brocktice> alexissoft, wow
Dec 10 21:17:01 <brocktice> I had no idea
Dec 10 21:17:07 <BlindOracle> alexissoft: tricky
Dec 10 21:17:08 <RyeBrye> ivantis: It can stay on the Billing Information Received for a while sometimes - depends entirely upon the shipper. If you check back every evening / morning you can usually see when it gets put into the system and then it will almost always have an accurate estimated delivery date
Dec 10 21:17:13 <brocktice> The effect is clearly convincing.
Dec 10 21:17:21 <brocktice> Unfortunate that it's only the built-ins.
Dec 10 21:17:39 <brocktice> but instead of looking like it's loading slowly it just looks unresponsive at first.
Dec 10 21:17:44 <ivantis> for a while? it says 2 to 4 days
Dec 10 21:17:59 <RyeBrye> TiVo uses similar tricks - they will animate their screen transitions and draw the borders.. etc. while the stuff is still loading in the display to make it seem snappier
Dec 10 21:18:08 <BlindOracle> ivantis: do they give you a ship notification email?
Dec 10 21:18:19 <ivantis> for while ( itIsnt2To4Days ) { killThem; }
Dec 10 21:18:26 <BlindOracle> hehe
Dec 10 21:18:29 <RyeBrye> They also use the sound feedback early on to let you know that you hit a button - the sound will play a few seconds before the screen changes - but it feels snappy because you understand it is responding
Dec 10 21:18:33 <ivantis> BlindOracle: i got something from t-mobile about it
Dec 10 21:18:42 <ivantis> not from UPS
Dec 10 21:18:50 <brocktice> RyeBrye, There's something to be said for letting the user know that input has been received.
Dec 10 21:18:52 <BlindOracle> ivantis: so you didn't get a dev phone?
Dec 10 21:18:56 <ivantis> no
Dec 10 21:19:14 <brocktice> gar!
Dec 10 21:19:22 <ivantis> maybe i should have
Dec 10 21:19:25 <brocktice> Now I've sent an misinformed email to the brightstar people
Dec 10 21:19:26 <BlindOracle> brocktice: agreed. far too often I see people make half dozen clicks on windows to start an app - machine suddenly crawls because half dozen apps are now starting
Dec 10 21:19:27 <ivantis> but im not going to work on the kernel
Dec 10 21:21:27 <mikey|> hmm
Dec 10 21:21:51 <mikey|> is it a bad idea to check status using BufferedReader.ready() before calling readLine()?
Dec 10 21:22:56 <ivantis> so how do i run one of the sample apps with the emulator?
Dec 10 21:23:57 <vol> mikey|: not really, but it may not tell you much
Dec 10 21:24:17 <vol> look at the implementation of BufferedReader, all it should really do is pass along the call to whatever it is wrapping
Dec 10 21:24:28 <mikey|> i've seen a lot of code use something like while string foo = readline() != null
Dec 10 21:24:30 <vol> ivantis: you, uh, click on it?
Dec 10 21:25:09 <ivantis> click on what? the emulator or the app?
Dec 10 21:25:26 <mikey|> reason i ask is because a fair amount of time was spent on that method according to traceview
Dec 10 21:25:27 <marix> vol,  it wouldnt hurt t create a step by step for people downloading things like lunar lander etc for how to import them into eclipse and run them through it in the emulator.
Dec 10 21:25:59 <vol> oh
Dec 10 21:26:04 <mikey|> 68% of my run() time was on ready()
Dec 10 21:26:05 <vol> I thought he meant a sample app on the emulator already
Dec 10 21:26:06 <BlindOracle> does the linux kernel use by android support aio?
Dec 10 21:26:14 <mikey|> but that was with fairly idle use of the app
Dec 10 21:26:17 <Disconnect> iphone runs 1 app at a time.. android runs 3. 2 if one is music. and 1 if its the browser. :( but at least on the iphone the home page is always up..
Dec 10 21:26:21 <ivantis> i cant use eclipse, it crashes my system
Dec 10 21:26:41 <marix> the only reason i knew what he was talkign about is because i stumbled through for a few hours trying to get the res folder in the right place and stuff
Dec 10 21:26:43 <BlindOracle> the android plugin fails to load in my eclipse
Dec 10 21:26:48 <BlindOracle> load = install
Dec 10 21:26:57 <Disconnect> ivantis: then you have serious system problems you should resolve
Dec 10 21:27:17 <ivantis> cant i load an app from the command line with the emulator?
Dec 10 21:27:40 <mikey|> you could run emulator.exe
Dec 10 21:27:44 <mikey|> then adb install
Dec 10 21:27:47 <Disconnect> sure you can. go to android.com and click on the 'developers' section, then start reading
Dec 10 21:27:57 <marix> ivantis,  if you just wanna play lunar lander,  here you go. http://www.frontiernet.net/~imaging/lunar_lander_game.html
Dec 10 21:28:22 <ivantis> no
Dec 10 21:28:30 <ivantis> i want to run it through the emulator?
Dec 10 21:28:35 <mikey|> ...
Dec 10 21:28:37 <ivantis> s/\?//
Dec 10 21:28:41 <marix> :)
Dec 10 21:28:42 <mikey|> ivantis, i told you how to run it
Dec 10 21:28:56 <mikey|> run the emulator from shell/prompt
Dec 10 21:28:59 <ivantis> then adb install in where? the phone?
Dec 10 21:28:59 <mikey|> then adb install
Dec 10 21:29:09 <ivantis> ./emulator;adb install?
Dec 10 21:29:09 * mikey| gives up
Dec 10 21:29:12 <vol> the shell on your machine
Dec 10 21:29:15 <ivantis> oh
Dec 10 21:29:18 <vol> mikey|: adb is the android debug bridge
Dec 10 21:29:23 <vol> you use it to communicate with the emulator/phone
Dec 10 21:29:35 <mikey|> i know, thats why i said run the emulator, then adb install
Dec 10 21:29:35 <vol> so you open up a shell on your machine, and type "adb install foobar.apk"
Dec 10 21:29:40 <fadden> http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html
Dec 10 21:29:44 <vol> assuming that you've set up your paths
Dec 10 21:30:03 <bherrmann> ok, there went 45 minutes of my life I will never get back (talking with tmo about why my g1 won't activate.)
Dec 10 21:30:32 <bherrmann> They seem to have decided that it sometimes takes 48 hours for a g1 dataplan to become active
Dec 10 21:30:52 <ivantis> where are the .apk files?
Dec 10 21:31:08 <Disconnect> bherrmann: call back and talk to g1 support. cuz thats crap - the normal support says that to get people off the phone :( it can take an hour or so but hardly ever more
Dec 10 21:31:12 <Disconnect> more generally means they f'd up
Dec 10 21:32:03 <bherrmann> Disconnect: I guess I overstated that slightly.  They claim there is some known problem with new accounts and it should be cleared up within 24 hours from now.
Dec 10 21:32:30 <bherrmann> Disconnect: It's a nice time piece
Dec 10 21:33:15 <marix> bherrmann,  did you talk to a teir 3 tech or no?
Dec 10 21:33:15 <bherrmann> I certainly didnt save any money buying a used g1
Dec 10 21:33:53 <d0nets> how much did you pay
Dec 10 21:33:55 <bherrmann> marix: I talked to somebody, then to someone in g1 / black berry / something else support
Dec 10 21:34:37 <BlindOracle> When I attempt to install the android editors in eclipse, I get this error: Unsatisfied dependency: [com.android.ide.eclipse.editors.feature.group 0.8.0.v200809220836-110569] requiredCapability: org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.wst.xml.core/0.0.0
Dec 10 21:34:43 <BlindOracle> any idea which depends I'm missing?
Dec 10 21:34:43 <bherrmann> matrix: the lady I was talking with was poised to open a trouble ticket, but won't right now as there is this *known* problem due to be cleared in 24 hours
Dec 10 21:34:56 <bherrmann> d0nets: $249
Dec 10 21:35:01 <marix> bherrmann,  those are the good guys
Dec 10 21:35:30 <d0nets> wtf you talkin about
Dec 10 21:35:31 <bherrmann> marix: They were very nice and well mannered.
Dec 10 21:35:32 <d0nets> thats cheap
Dec 10 21:35:37 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: just a guess, but i'd say wst. take a look at the install page, its got a list of what you need.
Dec 10 21:35:55 <marix> bherrmann,  thats a good price since you didn't have to extend your contract.
Dec 10 21:36:10 <BlindOracle> Disconnect: thanks
Dec 10 21:36:41 <d0nets> i have a new one if anybody wants it for 350
Dec 10 21:37:36 <marix> palm isn't an oha member is it?
Dec 10 21:38:06 <Disconnect> ok twitdroid geo is dumb as hell. i'm in silver spring (i'll also accept washington dc, maryland, any of the various smaller towns, etc) .. but what does it say? "sligo, usa" .. which - according to teh goog - is in the carolinas. which puts it 6-10 hours away by car.
Dec 10 21:40:35 <RyeBrye> Disconnect: did they update twitdroid?
Dec 10 21:40:43 <Disconnect> yep
Dec 10 21:40:53 * RyeBrye goes to download update
Dec 10 21:41:04 * RyeBrye wishes there was an auto-update checker
Dec 10 21:41:17 <Disconnect> and it looks like the vague lat/lon it offers up is correct. so its teh location search that sucks.
Dec 10 21:41:29 <marix> ryebrye,  you should write an auto-update app...
Dec 10 21:41:31 <jasta> RyeBrye: there will be soon, of course
Dec 10 21:41:54 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I know. All in due time :)
Dec 10 21:42:00 <ivantis> mikey|: something like this? ../tools/emulator && ../tools/adb install NotePad.apk
Dec 10 21:42:06 <Disconnect> OI Update.. except it can't even get it's own updates correct
Dec 10 21:42:41 <marix> i wish i would have discovered android about a year from now so all the waiting would be over and i would have something else to focus my time on.
Dec 10 21:43:14 <d0nets> hey do you guys think  im better off unlocking this g1
Dec 10 21:43:20 <RyeBrye> I like that Visa Mobile BETA
Dec 10 21:43:21 <d0nets> to sell it on ebay
Dec 10 21:43:29 <d0nets> or just sell it without and explain the unlock codes
Dec 10 21:43:36 <RyeBrye> ... it makes me wonder how effective a Phishing app would be though
Dec 10 21:43:41 <RyeBrye> "Mastercard Mobile BETA"
Dec 10 21:44:06 <marix> ryebrye,  i bet it would stay on the market for atleast 3 weeks...
Dec 10 21:44:24 <Disconnect> ok triple-checked with goog maps. the marker is a mile from here. geonames is just brain damaged.
Dec 10 21:44:32 <marix> ryebrye,  and if you made it make video game noises when you shake the phone you could get 4.5 stars easy!
Dec 10 21:44:50 <Poohba1> what's new in the android world?
Dec 10 21:45:05 <Poohba1> or rather... what's new in the G1 world?
Dec 10 21:45:25 <marix> poohba1,  bunch of new members for the oha were announced
Dec 10 21:45:36 <RyeBrye> Wow. I have been super busy with work and haven't checked the market in a day or two - there are a lot more new apps than usual
Dec 10 21:45:45 <marix> google guy is gonna be a keynote speaker at sprints dev conference
Dec 10 21:45:56 <Poohba1> can we attach files yet to emails?  video capture available?  and most importantly... is stereo bluetooth close to completion?
Dec 10 21:45:59 <marix> someone ported android to the htc touch
Dec 10 21:46:21 <marix> no, no, and i hear its being worked on but it's eating the battery
Dec 10 21:46:37 <Disconnect> no, no, and whaahahhahahhaaha
Dec 10 21:46:42 <sparkle> lol
Dec 10 21:46:44 <ivantis> why does the emulator stay on that screen that says "A N D R O I D" for the longest time?
Dec 10 21:46:53 <vol> it's booting
Dec 10 21:46:56 <vol> let it sit
Dec 10 21:46:58 <marix> ivantis,  cuz your computer is old
Dec 10 21:47:01 <vol> it can take a minute or two
Dec 10 21:47:13 <vol> adb logcat if you want to see things whizzing and whirring
Dec 10 21:47:20 <ivantis> one a real phone?
Dec 10 21:47:39 <ivantis> it takes that long to start on the real phone?
Dec 10 21:47:53 <vol> no
Dec 10 21:47:57 <RyeBrye> There is a pedometer app on the market. I wonder if he's using the accelerometer + doing thinking or just using native code to tie into the existing pedometer function of the sensor on the phone
Dec 10 21:47:59 <vol> your computer could be old.
Dec 10 21:48:05 <vol> it takes about 30 seconds to boot the phone (I think)
Dec 10 21:48:11 <vol> less actually
Dec 10 21:48:19 <ivantis> DELL Dimension 4600 running Ubuntu 8.04
Dec 10 21:48:25 <vol> WOW!
Dec 10 21:48:26 <ivantis> 30 seconds? that is a while
Dec 10 21:48:27 <vol> A DELL DIMENSION
Dec 10 21:48:29 <marix> well there you go
Dec 10 21:48:34 <vol> that immediately tells me your system specs
Dec 10 21:48:40 <Mony> lol
Dec 10 21:48:42 <vol> but don't tell me, because I don't care : (
Dec 10 21:48:57 <vol> at least you're not using microsoft netscape
Dec 10 21:48:58 <ivantis> hmm
Dec 10 21:48:59 <luok> RyeBrye: how hard is it to make an app for the market that uses native code?
Dec 10 21:49:10 <ivantis> that took a lot less time to start
Dec 10 21:49:20 <ivantis> i guess my command line is slow to start it or something
Dec 10 21:49:21 <marix> the dimensions were nixed in early 07,  so yea... your computer is too old
Dec 10 21:49:22 <fadden> First start of the emulator takes longer.
Dec 10 21:49:25 <vol> luok: not hard at all.
Dec 10 21:49:31 <vol> you have to package the shared lib into the apk though
Dec 10 21:49:36 <vol> and then extract it from the apk on the first run
Dec 10 21:49:38 <fadden> Has to generate a ton of goodies into /data/dalvik-cache, do some apk cert scans, etc.
Dec 10 21:49:54 <luok> vol: good to know..is this documented anywhere?
Dec 10 21:49:54 <RyeBrye> luok: I don't know - but there are some out there that already do it. (Neocore, for one)
Dec 10 21:50:00 <vol> luok: no. Good luck!
Dec 10 21:50:07 <luok> haha so it IS difficult!
Dec 10 21:50:12 <marix> wheres that wiki faq people are workign on?
Dec 10 21:50:15 <fadden> luok: native development is not officially supported on Android at this time  <-- standard comment
Dec 10 21:50:18 <vol> luok: just look at how things get packaged into the apk
Dec 10 21:50:21 <vol> and how to pull them out
Dec 10 21:50:26 <vol> you can use System.load to load the library
Dec 10 21:50:30 <vol> once it's in your private file space
Dec 10 21:50:49 <vol> context.getFilesDir()
Dec 10 21:50:52 <vol> that's the private file space
Dec 10 21:50:56 <luok> fadden: gotcha, thx
Dec 10 21:51:35 <vol> what fadden said
Dec 10 21:51:50 <vol> that doesn't mean you can't unofficially be foolhardy and blaze through anyway
Dec 10 21:52:00 <luok> sure
Dec 10 21:52:13 <luok> just means i can stop looking for info in the official docs
Dec 10 21:52:22 <vol> for C stuff, yes
Dec 10 21:52:24 <vol> don't even bother
Dec 10 21:52:31 <vol> Riddle me this;
Dec 10 21:52:34 <vol> I have a wake lock
Dec 10 21:52:37 <vol> I just released it
Dec 10 21:52:43 <vol> but when I call isHeld, I'm told the lock is still held
Dec 10 21:52:50 <vol> I definitely only hold it in one place, what's going on
Dec 10 21:53:01 <luok> damn i thought we were getting haiku
Dec 10 21:53:19 <fadden> More like a koan.
Dec 10 21:53:36 <marix> luok,  what is this haiku you speak of?
Dec 10 21:53:37 <jasta> hi jasonchen, long time no see.
Dec 10 21:53:37 <vol> srsly though, this is screwing up the power management I'm trying to get done
Dec 10 21:53:49 <andyross1> luok: Native development is relatively straightforward if you have a good handle on how the gnu toolchain works and how to read a C++ header.  It's not any more "difficult" then it is elsewhere, but there's no handholding either.
Dec 10 21:54:50 <BlindOracle> andyross1: BTW, thanks for the game1 tarball...I have it compiling and running in the emulator
Dec 10 21:55:16 <andyross1> It runs in the emulator?  I never bothered to check. :)
Dec 10 21:55:39 <BlindOracle> andyross1: I had to download android and compile...everything compiled for me on 64-bit host even
Dec 10 21:56:02 <BlindOracle> andyross1: not a speed daemon or anything...makes be believe OpenGL is not accelerated in the emulator
Dec 10 21:56:25 <fadden> OpenGL is not accelerated in the emulator.
Dec 10 21:56:37 <BlindOracle> fadden: ok...then everything is good! :)
Dec 10 21:56:52 <andyross1> It's not.  Would be comparatively hard to do (you'd need a syscall interface from the qemu environment that hooks calls to a libGL in the host, then blits the resulting images back -- big mess)
Dec 10 21:57:28 <RyeBrye> If OpenGL was accelerated in the emulator I would question the priority-setting process
Dec 10 21:57:59 <BlindOracle> andyross1: sounds dirty...I can see why it's not...but it does run a whopping 1.3fps on x86_64 AMD Phenom(tm) 9950 Quad-Core Processor...ouch
Dec 10 21:58:15 <BlindOracle> andyross1: I guess opengl app devel on the emulator isn't going to be practical
Dec 10 21:59:27 <andyross1> Hardware-level performance tuning is something that really needs to happen on the target platform(s) anyway.  Certainly the non-rendering stuff can be run on the emulator.
Dec 10 22:00:49 <ivantis> yay! i got another email from t-mobile saying they have given my G1 to UPS
Dec 10 22:00:51 <BlindOracle> andyross1: I agree with that. Perhaps this app (I've really not looked to see what it's doing ) is not representative or opengl performance of a typical app on the emulator. If 1.3fps is typical, any devel on the emulator would seem to be iffy at best
Dec 10 22:01:16 * BlindOracle gives brown paper bag to ivantis to breath into
Dec 10 22:02:57 <marix> ivantis,  thats 2 emails... maybe they are shipping you 2 of them on accident :)
Dec 10 22:03:08 <BlindOracle> andyross1: well, the opengl cube demo runs on the emulator...so that's not all that bad...it's usable
Dec 10 22:03:11 <ivantis> marix: the other one was different
Dec 10 22:03:12 <vol> :3
Dec 10 22:03:15 <ivantis> but that would be awesome
Dec 10 22:03:59 <marix> you could do some akimbo email answering
Dec 10 22:04:18 <mikey|> is there a simple way in java to detect when a remote host has closed a socket?
Dec 10 22:04:29 <vol> catch the exception, if you didn't expect it?
Dec 10 22:04:56 <vol> or, uh
Dec 10 22:05:02 <vol> mySocket.isClosed()
Dec 10 22:05:10 <mikey|> that method doesn't work
Dec 10 22:05:27 <BlindOracle> vol: wouldn't that tell you if the socket is closed on your end?
Dec 10 22:05:32 <mikey|> i think it only applies to the local socket
Dec 10 22:05:36 <bherrmann> I think you find out only when you go to read or write on the inputstreams.   I think it's possible too for one to be closed and the other to be open.
Dec 10 22:05:49 <BlindOracle> bherrmann: that's correct
Dec 10 22:05:50 <vol> mabye I'm mistaken
Dec 10 22:05:55 <BlindOracle> udp socket is connectionless
Dec 10 22:06:18 <BlindOracle> tcp socket will only tell you if remote has closed if you read on the socket
Dec 10 22:06:26 <mikey|> time to pay t-mobile
Dec 10 22:06:33 * mikey| crys
Dec 10 22:06:40 <BlindOracle> mikey|: why?
Dec 10 22:06:46 <luok> BlindOracle: it really doesn't update isClosed when the remote host closes it?
Dec 10 22:06:54 <mikey|> for the phone and 1st contract bill
Dec 10 22:07:04 <vol> yeah : (
Dec 10 22:07:07 <vol> I got that feeling
Dec 10 22:07:17 <vol> I got to thinking "Do I really need to spend $80 for a phone?"
Dec 10 22:07:29 <BlindOracle> luok: in theory it can. but there are many, many cases where it's pretty much impossible to know the remote isn't there until you write (and it fails) or you read.
Dec 10 22:07:38 <andyross1> mikey|: Socket state changes are reported on system calls on that socket.  Try to write to it (or read from it, if you're sure the buffers are empty).
Dec 10 22:07:47 <pfft> mikey|: would a 2nd contract bill would be cheaper?
Dec 10 22:07:54 <luok> yeah, you'll have to handle the exception when you attempt to use the stream anyway
Dec 10 22:08:04 <unix_lappy> vol: 80 a month.
Dec 10 22:08:13 <mikey|> will try that next andyross1, thanks
Dec 10 22:08:25 <mikey|> and pfft: yeah, this one included £100 for the phone
Dec 10 22:08:26 <jasonchen> jasta: hey, what's up?
Dec 10 22:08:33 <vol> unix_lappy: yeah, what I meant
Dec 10 22:08:37 <unix_lappy> vol: your first bill is usually like 150 with activation and paying for the phone.
Dec 10 22:08:49 <vol> I got my first bill
Dec 10 22:08:50 <unix_lappy> will tack on another 200.
Dec 10 22:08:51 <BlindOracle> luok: example, remote powers down while you had open tcp connection. What will tell you the connection is now closed?
Dec 10 22:08:51 <vol> it was $400
Dec 10 22:08:54 <vol> what with the phone for $300
Dec 10 22:08:54 <pfft> mikey|: how is tmob service where you are?
Dec 10 22:09:02 <mikey|> how do you mean?
Dec 10 22:09:05 <unix_lappy> 300?
Dec 10 22:09:07 <andyross1> But as BlindOracle said, the idea of "closed" isn't really well-formed.  There are broken states (i.e. a stateful router between you and the other side dropped your connection state on the floor -- happens all the time) that you'll only detect after a timeout.
Dec 10 22:09:09 <mikey|> my contract is £20 a month
Dec 10 22:09:10 <vol> I had to pay $300!
Dec 10 22:09:18 <vol> because I was only a tmobile customer for 8 months or so
Dec 10 22:09:22 <BlindOracle> andyross1: exactly
Dec 10 22:09:28 <vol> you had to have had it for 2+ years to get the $170 price
Dec 10 22:09:31 <unix_lappy> vol: 80 a month so i'm guessing you got 600 minutes plus 400 text?
Dec 10 22:09:46 <vol> I actually have 1500minutes, 400 text, thanks to a promo contract
Dec 10 22:09:48 <mikey|> crap, forgot my natwest password
Dec 10 22:09:54 <vol> of course, I use about 300 minutes a month...
Dec 10 22:10:17 <jasta> jasonchen: not much, just working on stuff :)
Dec 10 22:10:26 <unix_lappy> so 40 voice + 30 data + taxes?
Dec 10 22:10:40 <andyross1> It's really depressing, the extent to which TCP just doesn't work as designed on the internet.  Everyone and their sister wants to do deep packet inspection or NAT, and then pukes, and the resulting sockets get zombied.
Dec 10 22:10:47 <BlindOracle> luok: and even in well formed cases, you likely won't know until you read/write on the socket
Dec 10 22:11:25 <BlindOracle> andyross1: and made worse by far too many people purposely break the RFCs via firewalls which black hole packets
Dec 10 22:11:27 <pfft> andyross1: lol
Dec 10 22:11:30 <RyeBrye> any guesses as to what will be announced at the Sprint dev conference?
Dec 10 22:11:45 <BlindOracle> and worse yet by people that simply blackhole all ICMP traffic
Dec 10 22:12:37 <marix> ryebrye,  a sonyerickson handset w/ xohm support
Dec 10 22:12:56 <Damm> marix, pretty much something like that.
Dec 10 22:13:05 <Damm> something that supports their new "4G" Footprint
Dec 10 22:13:40 <marix> i work in Overland park and have a buddy who is doing their 4g rollout,  they have zero infrastructure for voice over 4g,  its all data
Dec 10 22:13:49 <unix_lappy> wonder what the battery life is like with 4G
Dec 10 22:13:53 <marix> so expect to see dual radio's in any 4g phone.
Dec 10 22:14:03 <Damm> marix, well 4G is just the XOHM (Wimax) stuff
Dec 10 22:14:13 * mikey| wanders what just happened o.o
Dec 10 22:14:16 <Damm> they are not going LTE, or any further improvements with EVDO
Dec 10 22:14:32 <Damm> they're just improving their friendship with clearwire
Dec 10 22:14:48 <jbq> unix_lappy: for 4G, they decided to rename it "battery death".
Dec 10 22:14:50 <marix> damm,  yea but they have no voip implementation for 4g,  so no way to do voice over it at this time.
Dec 10 22:15:04 <BlindOracle> if an application dies should the screen be left with stale junk from the newly dead app?
Dec 10 22:15:04 <Damm> marix, more then likely not worried.
Dec 10 22:15:19 <Damm> Sprint has more things to worry about, more impending things
Dec 10 22:15:20 <BlindOracle> shouldn't it return to home?
Dec 10 22:15:41 <Damm> BlindOracle, typically when an application crashes it goes 'to the home screen'
Dec 10 22:15:43 <Damm> for me atleast
Dec 10 22:15:46 <marix> damm,  i think they want to build it out as an isp instead of a cell provider... but i can't imagine that will be profitable in the long term.
Dec 10 22:15:49 <Damm> but I get a crash notification.
Dec 10 22:16:01 <Damm> marix, I can't imagine Sprint PCS being profitable still
Dec 10 22:16:19 <Damm> too much fat
Dec 10 22:16:21 <Disconnect> ugh. k9sms doesn't clear notifications
Dec 10 22:16:30 <Damm> uh k9sms?
Dec 10 22:16:34 <marix> thats true,  and dont forget their iden network,
Dec 10 22:16:39 <Damm> don't tell me that fool made his own SMS app
Dec 10 22:16:44 <mikey|> hmm...says my bill isnt paid yet it shows the transaction in payment history
Dec 10 22:16:44 <marix> their infrastructure has to be a total clusterfuck
Dec 10 22:16:50 <Damm> marix, that's mainly where the fat is... the iden network
Dec 10 22:16:52 <Disconnect> Damm: someone posted the link earlier, but you'll have to search.
Dec 10 22:16:59 <Damm> Disconnect, no thanks
Dec 10 22:17:16 <marix> damm,  that and management... they are one of the topheaviest company's around
Dec 10 22:17:16 <BlindOracle> hmmm...interesting behavior
Dec 10 22:17:19 <Disconnect> solves the performance problem and the enter-sends-message buglet
Dec 10 22:17:39 <BlindOracle> if you long push the home button, kill an application, and select the app which is dead, it appears to restart the application
Dec 10 22:17:42 <Damm> Disconnect, I really wish that obra would stop forking and start commiting.
Dec 10 22:17:50 <Disconnect> (buglet as in its vaguely reasonable until you consider multi-line sms, the proximity to backspace and the presence of 'send' on the screen)
Dec 10 22:18:08 <Damm> because then you have 2 SMS apps running
Dec 10 22:18:12 <obra> Damm: I've been asked to hold off before submitting more patches
Dec 10 22:18:20 <Damm> obra, :(
Dec 10 22:18:22 <obra> Damm: also, K-9 SMS isn't mine, It's bradfitz's
Dec 10 22:18:30 <Damm> obra, ah ok
Dec 10 22:18:31 <Damm> phew
Dec 10 22:18:35 <Damm> then i'm sorry for mentioning you
Dec 10 22:18:42 <obra> there's a major overhaul of the core mail client coming. we've been asked to hold off on submitting patches until then
Dec 10 22:18:50 <Damm> just googled and found it in your twitter.
Dec 10 22:18:56 <Disconnect> ok now that we have been discussing performance/feedback i'm noticing it more and more. click a buton...pause.. -there- it goes..
Dec 10 22:19:11 <Damm> Disconnect, did you remove the old MMS app?
Dec 10 22:19:16 <obra> k-9 sms: brad wants to get a branch out onto devices for testing as soon as possible. he's a google employee and working with the android team to get his patches upstream
Dec 10 22:19:16 <Damm> or do you have 2 running?
Dec 10 22:19:33 <Disconnect> they don't run 24/7 any more than browser+opera does. or email+k-9
Dec 10 22:19:46 <Damm> well email doesn't count
Dec 10 22:19:49 <obra> like me, he'd prefer not to have an unfriendly fork.
Dec 10 22:19:57 <Disconnect> obra: he can still be oss-friendly and post a fscking tarball
Dec 10 22:20:01 <Damm> but MMS however runs, catches things, runs on bootup
Dec 10 22:20:13 <Damm> hense my question
Dec 10 22:20:17 <obra> Disconnect: he's planning to check it into the k-9 svn repo. give him a couple days ;)
Dec 10 22:20:32 <obra> brad's demonstrated his commitment to OSS sufficiently for me to take him at his words
Dec 10 22:20:43 <Disconnect> thats fine, but it doesn't take any effort at all to tar up what he's publishing when he rolls up an apk
Dec 10 22:21:16 <Damm> if i had a testkit device... i'd gladly test it
Dec 10 22:21:29 <Damm> but otherwise i'll refrain until my questions are answered.
Dec 10 22:22:23 <marixig> whyd they tell you not to submit patches?
Dec 10 22:23:11 <obra> marixig: because, as I understand it, there's a significant enough set of changes that integrating them will be difficult at the moment.
Dec 10 22:23:22 <obra> I have faith that they're working to improve the workflow and process
Dec 10 22:23:45 <marixig> good news... i hope
Dec 10 22:23:51 <jbq> Yes. We do expect some difficulty merging those changes, and submitting them right now would slow down the merging process for the whole of android.
Dec 10 22:23:54 <obra> In the meantime, we're working on K-9, since, well, those of us hacking on it would like a better mail client and don't yet have visibility into the upcoming core changes.
Dec 10 22:24:25 <obra> I'm not worried. My goal isn't to cause the android team more trouble, just to end up with a better mail client.
Dec 10 22:24:34 <jbq> We appreciate that you're holding off to help us minimize the pain.
Dec 10 22:24:40 <BlindOracle> obra: will the client have an API exposed?
Dec 10 22:25:00 <obra> I've just written to the author of damail to see if I can talk him into joining us with his improvements :)
Dec 10 22:25:13 <obra> BlindOracle: what do you mean? It already exposes an intent for mail sending.
Dec 10 22:25:25 <BlindOracle> obra: no user interaction required?
Dec 10 22:26:02 <obra> of course there's user interaction required.
Dec 10 22:26:03 <obra> I don
Dec 10 22:26:18 <obra> I'm not really interested in building an smtp client library that lets other user apps send spam ;)
Dec 10 22:26:29 <obra> What sort of thing do you have in mind for a use case?
Dec 10 22:26:46 <BlindOracle> notification of geographic change
Dec 10 22:27:16 <obra> Email is a better transport for you than an HTTP GET/POST?
Dec 10 22:27:20 <unix_lappy> vol: at least it's not like paying for an iphone where you get 450 minutes + 200 text at 90 bucks a month
Dec 10 22:27:23 <Damm> obra, and t-mobile would not be happy with ssmtp or such installed.
Dec 10 22:27:26 <BlindOracle> obra: yes
Dec 10 22:27:42 <BlindOracle> obra: and I'm not alone on this either. I found today others were asking about this too
Dec 10 22:27:53 <BlindOracle> obra: on the forums
Dec 10 22:28:10 <RyeBrye> BlindOracle: Doesn't your parole officer just have you wear the ankle monitor anyway? Why would you need to also email him when you leave your house?
Dec 10 22:28:11 <RyeBrye> ;)
Dec 10 22:28:14 <Damm> i guess the new year is when the private tree and public tree merge
Dec 10 22:28:23 <Damm> that's the rumor atleast.
Dec 10 22:28:23 <BlindOracle> RyeBrye: hehe
Dec 10 22:28:24 <BlindOracle> nice
Dec 10 22:28:27 <Damm> should should be fun
Dec 10 22:28:35 <RyeBrye> I can't wait
Dec 10 22:28:44 * RyeBrye is building a time machine because he really can't wait
Dec 10 22:28:44 <vol> unix_lappy: I'm not into paying the apple tax :P
Dec 10 22:28:48 <bherrmann> new Socket(host,25).getOutputStream().write('smtp...')
Dec 10 22:28:49 <obra> BlindOracle: It's worth bringing up on the k9-mail list. I'm a little unsure if it's 'reasonable'  - I suppose if it got set with a permission, it wouldn't be the end of the world
Dec 10 22:29:01 <obra> and really, bherrmann makes a good point
Dec 10 22:29:06 <vol> of course, my girlfriend wanted an ipod for her birthday.
Dec 10 22:29:09 <vol> and it HAD to be an ipod
Dec 10 22:29:13 <vol> because all other mp3 players are inferior
Dec 10 22:29:15 <vol> :\
Dec 10 22:29:18 <unix_lappy> whoa something is definately killing this battery, less than 20 hours and already at 80% with nothing but edge.
Dec 10 22:29:24 <unix_lappy> 2 hours&
Dec 10 22:29:25 <obra> it's easy to write the spam engine. having a way to do it well with the mail app seems more reasonable
Dec 10 22:29:25 <RyeBrye> vol: did she say which generation of iPod?
Dec 10 22:29:27 <vol> she also wants a diamond if I propose (argh)
Dec 10 22:29:28 <andyross1> obra: when you get down to it, SMTP and HTTP are almost the same protocol.  Mail requires a "from" address and makes at least some kind of promise that the "url-like-thingy" is global (where an HTTP URL is always server-specific).  That's about it.
Dec 10 22:29:40 <vol> RyeBrye: No, but I wasn't going to skimp out :\
Dec 10 22:29:41 <BlindOracle> RyeBrye: old SNL skit - Einstein Express: when it absolutely has to be there the day before yesterday
Dec 10 22:29:47 <vol> I got her an ipod classic 120G w/ engraved love message
Dec 10 22:29:58 <vol> she told me she was happy it wasn't the nano :P
Dec 10 22:30:00 <BlindOracle> RyeBrye: quick I need to get these pills to my girlfriend
Dec 10 22:30:05 <obra> andyross1: well, for smtp, you really should be implementing queueing, etc. but yes, they're both textual TCP-based protocols
Dec 10 22:31:14 <BlindOracle> obra: andyross1: since the platform doesn't seem to support it, I was planning on creating a queue, attach javamail to it and some fluff in front of it.
Dec 10 22:31:41 <obra> BlindOracle: rather than that, adding it to k9/mail seems sensible, so the user doesn't need to configure another smtp server
Dec 10 22:31:43 <BlindOracle> as is, every app needs to create their own account information, which is pretty annoying.
Dec 10 22:32:03 <BlindOracle> link for k8/mail - I'm new and coming up to speed
Dec 10 22:32:06 <obra> alternatively, just enhancing the "send mail" intent to have a "don't prompt" option
Dec 10 22:32:07 <BlindOracle> k9
Dec 10 22:32:12 <obra> BlindOracle: http://code.google.com/p/k9mail
Dec 10 22:32:35 <marixig> shop savvy is awesome, but it makes me look like im checking inventory or something
Dec 10 22:32:48 <BlindOracle> obra: thanks
Dec 10 22:32:57 <pfft> emulator: warning: opening audio input failed
Dec 10 22:32:59 <obra> I've got to vanish. *wave*
Dec 10 22:33:38 <BlindOracle> obra: how would you envision this being secure. Obviously we don't want to create a hole for spammers
Dec 10 22:34:16 <obra> BlindOracle: I think it probably needs a permission. and the app may want to prompt users the first time another app tries to send a background message
Dec 10 22:34:49 <jbq> rate-limiting would sound wise as well.
Dec 10 22:35:00 <obra> "FooBar wants to send a message directly to jesse@blah.com: <content of message>" Do you want to allow FooBar app to send mail to jesse@fsck.com <once> <always> <never>
Dec 10 22:35:03 <vol> pfft: enjoy linux : P
Dec 10 22:35:12 <DJTachyon> wow 5 whole security updates for XP x64 :)
Dec 10 22:35:12 <obra> and to prompt for every app/recipient combo
Dec 10 22:35:26 <BlindOracle> jbq: ya, for my needs, one message a minute would be high. rate limiting would be an important anti spam mechanism
Dec 10 22:35:42 <obra> BlindOracle: one message a minute. oof.
Dec 10 22:35:45 <jbq> obra: yeah, per-recipient sounds like a great idea.
Dec 10 22:36:02 <BlindOracle> app/recipient combo? per recipient?
Dec 10 22:36:07 <Disconnect> fyi i just checked - i have k9sms running, but no instances of com.*.mms
Dec 10 22:36:11 <Disconnect> so.. nyah.
Dec 10 22:36:30 <jbq> one message a minute = probably no more than 12 hours of battery life even if you're not doing anything else.
Dec 10 22:36:36 <obra> per recipient per application.
Dec 10 22:36:42 <BlindOracle> obra: that wouldn't be continuous...that means, it's unlikely i'd ever need to send more than two messages spanning two minutes
Dec 10 22:36:57 * Disconnect is reasonably sure that a chunk of his battery is k-9 :/
Dec 10 22:37:15 <obra> Disconnect: patches welcome ;)
Dec 10 22:37:26 <obra> "desperately welcome"
Dec 10 22:37:51 <BlindOracle> obra: I'm really not sure what you mean by the per recipient stuff. In my case, the user creates the recipient list so any additional recipient confirmation is silly
Dec 10 22:38:14 <Disconnect> soon as i know how to only wake up when there is actual mail i'll dump a patch in.
Dec 10 22:38:27 <obra> BlindOracle: it's not. I want to make sure that k-9 doesn't get used as a spam platform
Dec 10 22:38:40 <obra> that means that K-9 has to ask the user if your app isn't doing anything evil
Dec 10 22:38:44 <obra> before it lets the mail go through
Dec 10 22:38:44 <BlindOracle> obra: was afraid of that. That means I'll have to roll my own
Dec 10 22:38:59 <obra> Because you're not up for that much implementation?
Dec 10 22:39:03 <Phlogi> there is definately no dma to the sdcard, because when I copy staff over with usb cable the phone becomes really slow
Dec 10 22:39:26 <BlindOracle> obra: because user interaction is not acceptable - defeats the entire purpose of the app
Dec 10 22:39:55 <obra> is this basically a "fleet monitoring" kind of application?
Dec 10 22:40:04 <BlindOracle> obra: basically
Dec 10 22:40:44 <obra> yes, you may want to do your own thing.
Dec 10 22:40:51 <obra> alas
Dec 10 22:41:55 <BlindOracle> obra: not that it's a big deal, but ideally, the account information would be leveraged. That's the kicker that makes things become silly...ever app needs the exact same information repeatedly entered by the user when it should really just work.
Dec 10 22:42:18 <obra> Except I don't trust every app I download from the market with my email account
Dec 10 22:42:29 <obra> But I really am late for an appointment
Dec 10 22:42:31 * obra waves
Dec 10 22:42:41 <BlindOracle> obra: which is why ideally it would be abstracted behind an API
Dec 10 22:42:49 <BlindOracle> obra: okay...later
Dec 10 22:43:20 <bherrmann> you could outbound  port 25
Dec 10 22:43:43 <bherrmann> s/outbout/block outbound socket traffice on/
Dec 10 22:44:21 <jasta> hey dougie
Dec 10 22:44:24 <Dougie187> Hey jasta
Dec 10 22:44:26 <Dougie187> hows it going?
Dec 10 22:44:29 <jasta> good :)
Dec 10 22:44:40 <Dougie187> you talk to that guy?
Dec 10 22:44:45 <jasta> what guy?
Dec 10 22:44:48 * BlindOracle wonders if recipient is already in contacts if he would consider that to be acceptable
Dec 10 22:44:53 <Dougie187> the director or whatever.
Dec 10 22:45:59 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: given that apps can add to contacts, i don't htink thats a win :)
Dec 10 22:49:37 <ivantis> yesssssss!
Dec 10 22:49:52 <ivantis> UPS results: scheduled delivery of my G1 on the 12th
Dec 10 22:50:07 <ivantis> day after tomorrow, hardly can wait
Dec 10 22:50:16 <bherrmann> ivantis: sweet.
Dec 10 22:54:43 <luok> ivantis: i know your pain..i had to wait like almost 24 hours for my phone # to port over..it was hell
Dec 10 22:55:15 <Disconnect> i just stuck my sim in and it worked.
Dec 10 22:56:49 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: port, not activate.
Dec 10 22:57:49 <luok> almost worse cuz i had the device in my hand but couldn't use it yet..if only i'd known the apn trick
Dec 10 22:58:25 <mikey|> hmm
Dec 10 22:58:35 * mikey| still can't get this working properly
Dec 10 22:58:36 <dcordes> luok, what is the apn trick?
Dec 10 22:58:56 <mikey|> is there any way to detect, like desktop irc clients do, when a server closes the connection?
Dec 10 22:59:00 <mikey|> in java
Dec 10 22:59:20 <luok> dcordes: supposedly you can use a sim card from another provider and put in the other provider's apn settings in order to get past the "setting up your google account" stage
Dec 10 22:59:41 <Disconnect> if its unlocked yah
Dec 10 22:59:55 <luok> ah ok so that probably wouldn't have worked for me anyway
Dec 10 23:00:34 <Disconnect> if its not unlocekd it just says "unlock code?" and waits
Dec 10 23:00:37 <vol> Sigh.
Dec 10 23:00:41 <vol> I just found a little nugget of joy
Dec 10 23:00:47 <Disconnect> istr with root there is a way to do it over wifi tho
Dec 10 23:00:49 <vol> in our onDestroy method, SOMEONE put System.exit(0)
Dec 10 23:00:49 <dcordes> luok, just use pppd
Dec 10 23:00:57 <vol> :\
Dec 10 23:01:05 <Disconnect> vol: thats probably mine. i just wiped out a day's work. (actually, i just told postfix+tee to do it. but either way..)
Dec 10 23:01:19 <vol> ?
Dec 10 23:01:22 <Disconnect> the nugget
Dec 10 23:01:24 <vol> oh
Dec 10 23:03:45 <JesusFreke> oooo. My dev phone was shipped out yesterday. You can "track by reference" on fedex with your brightstarcorp order number
Dec 10 23:03:55 <JesusFreke> I never got an email saying it was shipped though
Dec 10 23:04:02 <JesusFreke> it should come in tomorrow
Dec 10 23:07:19 <andyross1> vol: Ah, but if you had unsaved state after returning from onPause(), it was only a matter of time before you lost it anyway.
Dec 10 23:07:56 <vol> ha
Dec 10 23:07:59 <Disconnect> anyone know the url for that activity lifecycle image?
Dec 10 23:08:10 <vol> Actually, looks like our shared lib has some sort of crash on exit issue, and that just ensures we terminate.
Dec 10 23:08:13 <vol> ick.
Dec 10 23:09:50 <mikey|> well, that was shockingly simple
Dec 10 23:10:16 <bherrmann> I tried to use a friends g1 sim in my g1 to activate the phone, but it won't budge (problem talking with google server) ?   Anyone know why my buddies g1 sim wouldnt work in my phone?
Dec 10 23:10:16 <dcordes> luok, hm sorry guess it's not that easy with rmnet
Dec 10 23:10:35 <vol> bherrmann: strange; I actually did exactly that today
Dec 10 23:10:42 <vol> (strongly hoping my phone doesn't get disconnected in a day)
Dec 10 23:11:38 <bherrmann> vol: and you had no problems?
Dec 10 23:11:44 <vol> so far, no.
Dec 10 23:11:49 <vol> Still getting bits of Bacn
Dec 10 23:12:28 <vol> I tried calling myself immediately after I did this to make sure my phone wasn't messed up, and the call went through
Dec 10 23:12:36 <vol> so, I'm assuming it's reasonably hunky dory?
Dec 10 23:18:15 <fcrick> how do unpack an .apk file?
Dec 10 23:18:28 <Disconnect> with android
Dec 10 23:18:49 <fcrick> like, on my windows machine
Dec 10 23:18:55 <JesusFreke> rename it to zip
Dec 10 23:18:58 <JesusFreke> and unzip it
Dec 10 23:19:16 <fcrick> hmm that's what i tried :/
Dec 10 23:19:30 <fcrick> JesusFreke: thanks for releasing that RC30 for rooted phones btw
Dec 10 23:19:35 <JesusFreke> :)
Dec 10 23:19:52 <JesusFreke> if you can't unzip it, it's probably corrupt
Dec 10 23:20:04 <JesusFreke> because they are just zip files..
Dec 10 23:21:46 <blau-MikeDG> grrr cant find the fricken dark knight blu ray
Dec 10 23:22:50 <fcrick> heh lol i downloaded a 404...renamed that to .zip
Dec 10 23:23:06 <vol> gg
Dec 10 23:23:07 <JesusFreke> yeah, probably not a valid zip file then :D
Dec 10 23:23:29 * JesusFreke has done similar before. lol
Dec 10 23:23:36 * Damm awaits a way to root RC30
Dec 10 23:23:52 <fcrick> anyone happy with a particular IM client - trying to get MSN working reliably
Dec 10 23:24:13 <fcrick> in the default client adding people is a real pita...
Dec 10 23:24:47 <Damm> people seem to be happy giving their details to mebo
Dec 10 23:24:48 <Damm> and using that
Dec 10 23:25:08 <Damm> although I'm paranoid about giving my credentials out to a website to 'log me in' to a Messenger for their closed API Messenger app
Dec 10 23:25:22 <fcrick> yeah i'm trying meebo and it seems to work but i want a really loud sound...and theirs is really soft
Dec 10 23:26:05 <fcrick> i guess i can try to get the apk directly of the phone...the one on their site is a broken link
Dec 10 23:26:40 <michaelnovakjr_> fcrick, which apk?
Dec 10 23:27:13 <fcrick> http://www.androidfreeware.com/download/meebo
Dec 10 23:27:16 <fcrick> one linked on that page
Dec 10 23:29:45 <Rob-cs> hey morrildl - back yet?
Dec 10 23:32:04 <infernixx> has anyone gotten adb to crash on the phone yet?
Dec 10 23:32:55 <infernixx> i seem to be able to pull that off when transfering big chunks of data through a command such as: adb shell "cat /sdcard/bigfile | /sdcard/uuencode-arm -" > bigfile.uu
Dec 10 23:33:14 <infernixx> adb seems to crash after about a minute and a half
Dec 10 23:33:41 <bherrmann> curious, how/can you access the serial interface on the g1?  and telnet in?
Dec 10 23:33:47 <fcrick> if i installed an app off the market, where would i find the apk file on the phone?
Dec 10 23:34:36 <jasta> fcrick: /data/app
Dec 10 23:39:58 <michaelnovakjr_> fcrick: the name of the apk in the /data/app is the full package name
Dec 10 23:41:07 <fcrick> yeah i got it workin
Dec 10 23:41:17 <fcrick> just gonna change the .mp3 in there and re-install it
Dec 10 23:46:15 <mikey|> hmm...my viewflipper seems be getting lost when i change orientation
Dec 10 23:47:31 <mikey|> i have them using onRetain..... and they have the same toString() values before and after changing orientation
Dec 10 23:48:02 <mikey|> adding children seem to have no affect after that
Dec 10 23:53:04 <fcrick> does the phone run the apps right out of the apk files?
Dec 10 23:53:17 <jasta> fcrick: the app is the apk.  your question makes no sense.
Dec 10 23:53:47 <andyross1> He's asking if it unpacks them.  And the answer is no, although the dalvik code gets sucked out and optimized.   All your data lives in the .apk forever, though.
Dec 10 23:56:36 <jasta> i hope they are using 0% compression, ugh :)
Dec 11 00:00:30 <fcrick> bleh it doesn't want to install my modified .apk :(
Dec 11 00:01:57 <special> hello guys
Dec 11 00:02:46 <special> can someone answer if android will be available for jade?
Dec 11 00:02:52 <special> like for vogue now
Dec 11 00:03:33 <special> im considering a htc touch 3g
Dec 11 00:03:49 <special> and want to try android in it
Dec 11 00:05:14 <dcordes> special, is touch 3g touch pro ?
Dec 11 00:06:17 <special> htc touch 3g T3232 dcordes
Dec 11 00:06:55 <dcordes> lol never heard about t3232
Dec 11 00:07:06 <dcordes> special, it's better to use the codenames for the htc devices
Dec 11 00:07:26 <special> dcordes: http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_touch_3g-2526.php
Dec 11 00:07:29 <special> this one
Dec 11 00:07:52 <special> its just like the vogue
Dec 11 00:07:58 <special> htc touch
Dec 11 00:08:08 <dcordes> looks just like the vogue
Dec 11 00:08:20 <dcordes> ^^
Dec 11 00:08:33 <fcrick> ok...so anyone have any idea why i can't run this modified app - i download meebo from the market, copy the apk to the sdcard, uninstall meebo, modify the apk and put it online somewhere, then try to install it from a url
Dec 11 00:08:45 <special> no idea dcordes?
Dec 11 00:08:47 <dcordes> ok so jade is the codename
Dec 11 00:08:51 <JesusFreke> did you re-sign it fcrick?
Dec 11 00:09:22 <dcordes> special, I didn't boot linux on this device personally
Dec 11 00:09:26 <fcrick> no i didn't - do i need to?
Dec 11 00:09:36 <JesusFreke> fcrick, yes
Dec 11 00:09:51 <fcrick> hmm...how do i do that?  this is not my app
Dec 11 00:10:20 <JesusFreke> download my modified recovery image. in that zip file there's a signapk.jar utility, to sign apks
Dec 11 00:10:25 <special> dcordes do u know where can i found the info
Dec 11 00:10:37 <dcordes> special, it has the msm7225 chipset. I don't know much about this one
Dec 11 00:10:41 <JesusFreke> it doesn't matter what key you use. you can use the "testkeys" included in the zip
Dec 11 00:10:48 <special> i want to know if i would by it or not
Dec 11 00:10:55 <fcrick> why won't it just install it?  i told my phone to allow apps from anywhere...
Dec 11 00:11:10 <dcordes> special, yes you can frequently check the xda forums
Dec 11 00:11:12 <JesusFreke> fcrick, every apk must be signed
Dec 11 00:11:23 <JesusFreke> with a valid signature
Dec 11 00:11:30 <JesusFreke> once you modify the apk, the signature isn't valid any more
Dec 11 00:11:35 <JesusFreke> but you can just re-sign it
Dec 11 00:11:35 <dcordes> special, and ask me. I'm trying to stay uptodate about these things
Dec 11 00:11:50 <fcrick> so is that app on my phone?  i did the whole thing setting up rc30 and busybox
Dec 11 00:12:03 <special> dcordes: and if it will not be available for jade? :/
Dec 11 00:12:16 <JesusFreke> no. you have to run signapk.jar on your computer
Dec 11 00:12:30 <JesusFreke> and it's included in the zip file you downloaded that has the modified recovery image
Dec 11 00:12:35 <dcordes> special, I cannot make any assumptions
Dec 11 00:13:00 <dcordes> special, raphael x1 blackstone are a good bet at the moment
Dec 11 00:13:31 <special> dcordes: who?
Dec 11 00:13:48 <dcordes> somebody else asked me the same question not long ago and I said if I had the € I would get a sony ericsson xperia x1
Dec 11 00:14:03 <fcrick> JesusFreke you don't have a link handy do yah?
Dec 11 00:14:16 <fcrick> oh nm found it
Dec 11 00:14:19 <dcordes> special, raphael = touch pro
Dec 11 00:14:58 <JesusFreke> fcrick, the post is  stickied on the xda-dev forum
Dec 11 00:15:14 <dcordes> I wonder what's the difference between the msm7201a and msm7225
Dec 11 00:15:19 <JesusFreke> named modified recovery image, or some such
Dec 11 00:17:09 <dcordes> bye
Dec 11 00:17:14 * infernixx waves
Dec 11 00:17:27 <tomgibara> Is there a supported intent for launching, from an app, a location based search in google maps?
Dec 11 00:18:43 <tomgibara> I can see Google Maps app firing an intent with the action android.intent.action.SEARCH, but don't know if I can use that externally somehow
Dec 11 00:18:54 <tomgibara> I'm guessing its not properly supported (yet)
Dec 11 00:20:22 <JesusFreke> tomgibara, I don't know offhand. but I would be surprised if it wasn't supported
Dec 11 00:20:38 <JesusFreke> you can use the "am" command on the phone to test out sending intents
Dec 11 00:20:53 <fcrick> hmm still failed :(
Dec 11 00:22:05 <tomgibara> JesusFreke: I think it could well not be supported yet because the software engineers will want to make sure they commit to a good Intent pattern
Dec 11 00:23:07 <JesusFreke> I rememeber being able to view an address in google maps, from one of the "house search" apps
Dec 11 00:23:24 <JesusFreke> it would take you directly to the address in the google maps app..
Dec 11 00:23:48 <JesusFreke> although I guess that's slightly different than a search
Dec 11 00:24:14 <binarybeats> heya, is there any way to import a csv directly into android without using gmail?
Dec 11 00:24:28 <JesusFreke> a csv of what? lol
Dec 11 00:26:45 <fcrick> JesusFreke i there any way to tell if its signed correctly?
Dec 11 00:26:47 <kirberich> JesusFreke, did they ship your phone today?
Dec 11 00:30:49 <Damm> i'm guessing the engineering one lets you get root with adb shell and all that jazz.
Dec 11 00:32:17 <binarybeats> contacts
Dec 11 00:32:33 <binarybeats> JesusFreke: I want to import my contacts
Dec 11 00:32:39 <fcrick> bleh my g1 hates me
Dec 11 00:32:54 <fcrick> i'm not really sure what to try next :(
Dec 11 00:34:35 <marix> fcrick,  your g1 just posted a mean message about you on facebook.
Dec 11 00:35:33 <fcrick> well i confirmed that the image i downloaded is the one that came out of the signing tool
Dec 11 00:36:00 <binarybeats> does anyone know of an app to import contacts directly from csv?
Dec 11 00:36:59 <marix> binarybeats,  they just released a converter in the app store.
Dec 11 00:37:13 <marix> i dont use palm,  so i dunno if its any good.
Dec 11 00:39:55 <binarybeats> is there a way to end task on apps?
Dec 11 00:43:08 <brocktice> binarybeats, google contacts
Dec 11 00:43:24 <brocktice> http://mail.google.com/mail/contacts/ui/ContactManager
Dec 11 00:44:08 <binarybeats> brocktice: I said without using gmail from the beginning
Dec 11 00:44:09 <brocktice> oh sorry
Dec 11 00:44:18 <brocktice> yeah I just read back
Dec 11 01:01:35 <Rob-cs> morrildl, what are the chances you can magically appear for 1.5 minutes so i can ask you a quick and pressing question?
Dec 11 01:01:54 <Rob-cs> if i had a genie i would waste 1 of my 3 wishes on it
Dec 11 01:10:01 <SanMehat> hahaha
Dec 11 01:10:14 <bherrmann> http://buffalobeast.com/133/bigthree.jpg
Dec 11 01:11:02 <SanMehat> Rob-cs: that was so funny I just emailed it to Dan
Dec 11 01:12:44 <bherrmann> I printed it out on the color lazer printers and posted it in the break rooms.
Dec 11 01:16:13 <snadge> hmm.. i seem to be getting repeated charges on my mobile bill for sms messages which im not sending
Dec 11 01:16:20 <snadge> or receiving for that matter
Dec 11 01:16:28 <snadge> its drained my credit to nothing
Dec 11 01:17:48 <Rob-cs> SanMehat, thanks man... if I am going to rot in a misery someone might as well be amused by it ;)
Dec 11 01:17:49 <JesusFreke> fcrick, if it installs, you signed it correctly :)
Dec 11 01:18:03 <JesusFreke> kirberich: yep, it shipped yesterday actually. I'll be getting it tomorrow
Dec 11 01:19:57 <bherrmann> I wonder if the developer phones will work with the tmob pay as you go SIMs?
Dec 11 01:20:21 <bherrmann> (ie. no data plan, just use the wifi.)
Dec 11 01:20:23 <tmzt_> any support for data on those other than T-zones?
Dec 11 01:26:46 <sparkle> mutter kb backlight mutter
Dec 11 01:30:06 <Lieu10ant> hi.
Dec 11 01:30:13 <Lieu10ant> any thing new about the G1 hacking?
Dec 11 01:31:19 <sparkle> Xvnc works with android-vnc-viewer on localhost? :)
Dec 11 01:34:11 <Captain_Dingo> does the G1 have any sort of SSL VPN capability out of the box or are there apps to allow one to connect to one?
Dec 11 01:34:55 <sparkle> no, and "only if you have a rooted handset"
Dec 11 01:36:21 <Captain_Dingo> So I guess the good news there is brightstar did charge my credit card already...
Dec 11 01:36:59 <sparkle> hmm
Dec 11 01:37:05 <sparkle> also i suppose
Dec 11 01:37:16 <sparkle> you can ssh tunnel some stuff
Dec 11 01:37:29 <sparkle> now that connectbot supports port forwarding
Dec 11 01:37:37 <snadge> why would my phone be repeatedly sending an sms message to "453"
Dec 11 01:37:46 <sparkle> myfaves
Dec 11 01:38:26 <snadge> ahh ok.. because im on the phone to my provider in australia
Dec 11 01:38:32 <sparkle> ahhh
Dec 11 01:38:41 <sparkle> maybe you should try the uk firmware
Dec 11 01:38:42 <snadge> and they have no idea.. "oh i apologise sir, there must be some kind of problem with your phone.. let me consult with a technician"
Dec 11 01:38:45 <sparkle> if you can flash it
Dec 11 01:38:54 <sparkle> it will stop the polling
Dec 11 01:38:55 <snadge> cant i disable myfaves?
Dec 11 01:39:09 <sparkle> from within android, not sure
Dec 11 01:39:14 <snadge> i dont even know what myfaves is
Dec 11 01:39:38 <Rob-cs> t-mobile mobile minutes plan thing
Dec 11 01:39:56 <sparkle> there are some threads on it on xda dev
Dec 11 01:40:05 <sparkle> search for xda 453 myfaves
Dec 11 01:41:17 <Lieu10ant> what are all the LED colors for the G1?
Dec 11 01:41:19 <marix> It sure woudl be rad if qr codes would become standardized for everyone...
Dec 11 01:41:42 <sparkle> Lieu10ant: like meanings?
Dec 11 01:41:48 <sparkle> it's just rgb
Dec 11 01:42:03 <Lieu10ant> oh, no i meant the little light that flashes when u missed a call
Dec 11 01:42:12 <marix> lieu10ant, its a tricolor led,  it can reproduce any color really... dunno if the sdk has access to it though
Dec 11 01:42:21 <Lieu10ant> oh thats badass!
Dec 11 01:42:32 <sparkle> it must, the missed call notifier uses it
Dec 11 01:42:44 <marix> my old blackberry had 3 led's under the pearl and a program could set them to whatever you wanted
Dec 11 01:42:49 <Lieu10ant> i thought they had like 4 little seperate bulbs in there, all diff colors.
Dec 11 01:42:54 <Lieu10ant> but i guess your way would make more sense
Dec 11 01:42:56 <infernixx> anyone know /data/misc/wifi/sockets/wpa_ctrl_* are used for?
Dec 11 01:43:33 <sparkle> i had my light flashing blue/red with network traffic :)
Dec 11 01:43:44 <marix> lieu10ant,  technically it does,  they are all just merged into the same bulb,  but it has 3 different "filiments" if you will.
Dec 11 01:43:57 <Lieu10ant> okay, here is a good question. my razr had "funlights" where the phone started flashing when i was geting a call, and bluetooth light started flashing when i got a call. and it could also light up when you spoke into it. is there any way possible this could be done for the G1?
Dec 11 01:44:03 <marix> sparkle,  did it look purple alot?
Dec 11 01:44:18 <sparkle> yeah
Dec 11 01:44:25 <Lieu10ant> oh i see marix, thanks for explaining it!
Dec 11 01:45:16 <marix> I'm not sure about the funlights idea... would you have the screen twinkle or what do you want to light up?
Dec 11 01:46:14 <Lieu10ant> yeah the screen used to flash like 4 times every second. and the little bluetooth (LED light in our case) would flash with it.
Dec 11 01:46:41 <Lieu10ant> i do know that there is a phone (forgot which one though) that would flash its lights to the beat of the ringtone playing.
Dec 11 01:47:04 <marix> lieu10ant,  im willing to bet someone is working on a ringer that displays video's instead of just pictures when someone is calling,  it wouldn't be too hard to do something similar.
Dec 11 01:47:13 <Lieu10ant> oh, and its keypad had also flashed too.
Dec 11 01:47:32 <sparkle> i want the status like to blink rss feeds in morse
Dec 11 01:47:36 <sparkle> light
Dec 11 01:47:46 <marix> sparkle,  that would be rad as hell
Dec 11 01:47:47 <Lieu10ant> video while a call is coming? thats badass lol.
Dec 11 01:47:53 <Torikun> grantbow: yo
Dec 11 01:48:23 <marix> yea,  their's already a blackberry app taht does that, and i know the g1 has better support for that stuff than blackberrys'
Dec 11 01:48:57 <Torikun> G1 needs office!
Dec 11 01:49:13 <grantbow> Torikun: yo
Dec 11 01:49:40 <bherrmann> a root oriface
Dec 11 01:50:55 <marix> i wish their was a social networking app that listed the closest android based device to you and allowed chat through it,  i could stalk me some geeks!
Dec 11 01:52:49 <bherrmann> since all the g1's know there location, you could have them quack when you are within listening range
Dec 11 01:54:41 <grantbow> got to think how to implement a social networking thing like that - wifi might work but there's not cell-phone tower isolation via sms or otherwise.  Trouble is I keep gps and wifi off to conserve my battery.
Dec 11 01:55:00 <snadge> crap.. the only way to fix the repeated sms messages to 453, is to flash to the UK RC8
Dec 11 01:55:11 <marix> how accurate is cell tower on 3g
Dec 11 01:55:16 <snadge> why is the UK release called RC8, and the USA RC30?
Dec 11 01:55:24 <marix> its 1500 feet on edge for me in kc
Dec 11 01:55:32 <bherrmann> doesnt the g1 have a gps in it, or is it tower based gps?
Dec 11 01:55:39 <marix> the british are always behind?
Dec 11 01:55:43 <marix> both
Dec 11 01:55:51 <grantbow> can do both if you enable them
Dec 11 01:56:02 <snadge> surely the UK g1 is pretty much the same? i dont understand why the different version
Dec 11 01:56:10 <snadge> the UK one doesnt have this "MyFaves" crap anyway
Dec 11 01:56:16 <grantbow> it's all about DRM
Dec 11 01:56:30 <grantbow> well, maybe not all
Dec 11 01:56:45 <snadge> and the next question is.. WHY is th eg1 sending sms messages to t-mobile WITHOUT user interaction
Dec 11 01:57:00 <bherrmann> I presume the G1 could act as a automotive GPS if an app was written and had access to the right map data.
Dec 11 01:57:01 <snadge> thats just scary
Dec 11 01:57:39 <grantbow> bherrmann: worked great for me using the maps app on my G1
Dec 11 01:57:54 <marix> snadge,   you receive sms messages without user interaction,  it'll be ok
Dec 11 01:57:58 <grantbow> I wouldn't want it talking to me anyway
Dec 11 01:58:12 <snadge> marix: i dont pay to receive sms messages though
Dec 11 01:58:21 <marix> you don't?
Dec 11 01:58:29 <marix> is that a european thing?
Dec 11 01:58:36 <bherrmann> grantbow: doesnt do audio turn by turn though - right?
Dec 11 01:58:42 <snadge> i pay to send them only.. and im being repeatedly billed 35 cents, for an sms message thats going to the number 453
Dec 11 01:58:49 <snadge> which is being charged at an international sms rate
Dec 11 01:58:50 <grantbow> bherrmann: right
Dec 11 01:58:57 <marix> bherrmann,  no that violates teh google maps agreement
Dec 11 01:59:20 <marix> snadge,  you are using the wrong phone in the wrong location.
Dec 11 01:59:25 <grantbow> bherrmann: though there is a turn by turn text display on the map when doing directions
Dec 11 01:59:31 <snadge> perhaps i am receiving the sms.. i have no real way to tell, i just know its an international sms that costs me 35 cents a pop
Dec 11 01:59:54 <bherrmann> later !!
Dec 11 02:00:02 <snadge> marix: i paid for an unlocked phone.. i should be able to use it wherever i want to
Dec 11 02:00:04 <Damm> snadge, myfaves is fantastic about that.
Dec 11 02:00:25 <Damm> snadge, you can uninstall myfaves and if you install contacts and messaging (mms) from the open source tree
Dec 11 02:00:27 <snadge> apparently my only option is to flash the firmware with the UK version
Dec 11 02:00:28 <Damm> you should be working
Dec 11 02:00:38 <Damm> that's the easiest
Dec 11 02:00:48 <snadge> i read elsewhere, myfaves was uninstallable
Dec 11 02:00:49 <Damm> sadly you loose root
Dec 11 02:00:56 <Damm> sure it is, if you have root
Dec 11 02:01:01 <Damm> is this pre rc-30 or RC30?
Dec 11 02:01:11 <snadge> i have an RC28.. which i keep refusing to update
Dec 11 02:01:13 <snadge> it is rooted
Dec 11 02:01:22 <snadge> i have an su binary in my /system/bin :P
Dec 11 02:01:26 <Damm> right, then get JF's RC30 1.2
Dec 11 02:01:31 <marix> i didn't think we had a rc28 rooted version.
Dec 11 02:01:35 <Damm> and you can login and rm the myfaves apk
Dec 11 02:01:41 <grantbow> snadge: I heard myfaves were tied to the contacts so you had to download an alternative contacts app from somewhere to get rid of myfaves.  I'm not sure what else would break if you tried it.
Dec 11 02:01:44 <marix> jf's rc8 1.2 :)
Dec 11 02:01:51 <Damm> or that.
Dec 11 02:02:03 <Damm> there's technically nothing wrong with the UK version, it just lacks MyFaves
Dec 11 02:02:16 <grantbow> Damm: is that the only difference?
Dec 11 02:02:17 <marix> the moded rc30 still have my faves and will continue to send sms wont it?
Dec 11 02:02:20 <snadge> the differing version number concerns me
Dec 11 02:02:24 <Damm> and MyFaves is integrated tightly into the USA version so you have to replace the Contacts app, and a few other applications
Dec 11 02:02:41 <Damm> snadge, different build servers... T-Mobile UK build vs T-Mobile US build
Dec 11 02:02:45 <snadge> so simply deleting the myfaves apk on the US version *will* cause problems?
Dec 11 02:02:59 <grantbow> snadge: define problem :-)
Dec 11 02:03:04 <Damm> snadge, as long as you replace the few mentioned apk's I mentioned from the open source tree... you should be golden
Dec 11 02:03:15 <Damm> if you just rm the myfaves.apk and reboot, you will loose gmail + contacts
Dec 11 02:03:29 <snadge> yeah im not particularly good with doing dev stuff with the g1 yet
Dec 11 02:03:58 <snadge> will i lose my contact data?
Dec 11 02:04:06 <snadge> i have all my friends etc imported from my sim
Dec 11 02:04:17 <marix> snadge,  its all backed up on googles server now
Dec 11 02:04:29 <marix> but you will lose some things.
Dec 11 02:04:34 <snadge> its not.. because my phone was activated with someone elses gmail account, the lady who sold it to me
Dec 11 02:04:37 <grantbow> Damm: calendar too I guess?
Dec 11 02:04:45 <Damm> grantbow, nah
Dec 11 02:04:53 <marix> snadge... umm wow ok
Dec 11 02:05:01 <snadge> so my gmail doesnt even work, nor does market.. because she subsequently changed her password, and theres no way to change the email address without a factory reset
Dec 11 02:05:12 <Damm> mostly just Mms.apk, and Contacts.apk
Dec 11 02:05:27 <grantbow> kk
Dec 11 02:05:38 <snadge> perhaps my phone provider can fix the problem at their end
Dec 11 02:05:48 <Damm> snadge, if you delete your contact info you can... it's in the uninstall application option to 'clear data'
Dec 11 02:05:49 <snadge> it has been escalated to higher level engineers, because the low end techs had no idea
Dec 11 02:05:53 <Damm> i forget which one can.
Dec 11 02:06:08 <Damm> it's on the xda-developers forum thou
Dec 11 02:06:28 <snadge> i read somewhere you delete gmail and im data.. i tried that.. old email address is still there
Dec 11 02:06:38 <Damm> then hard reset
Dec 11 02:06:43 <Damm> your data is still on the google servers
Dec 11 02:06:59 <snadge> its not.. because i havnt synced to gmail's servers since i added all my contacts
Dec 11 02:06:59 <marix> its also still on your sim i'd guess...
Dec 11 02:07:14 <snadge> im hoping the 'import from sim' option doesnt delete from sim
Dec 11 02:07:17 <Damm> then you need to back them up
Dec 11 02:07:30 <Damm> technically it should ask you for your new password
Dec 11 02:07:32 <Damm> if it was changed
Dec 11 02:07:42 <snadge> it does.. but wont let me change the email address itself
Dec 11 02:09:13 <jbq> Re: build versions. Notice how the US version TC4-RC30 and the UK version is TC5-RC8. They come from different testing cycles, and it took fewer iterations in the UK cycle to get it ready, since it was very close to the US version.
Dec 11 02:09:48 <snadge> and UK doesn't have myfaves.. right.. the next question is.. why the sms?
Dec 11 02:10:04 <Damm> snadge, that's how myfaves works... with T-Mobile, via SMS
Dec 11 02:10:11 <snadge> we're not being asked whether we want our phone to communicate with the tower
Dec 11 02:10:12 <Damm> your devices pings 453 constantly
Dec 11 02:10:22 <snadge> yeah, isn't that a tragic error?
Dec 11 02:10:30 <Damm> and this is new to T-Mobile how?
Dec 11 02:10:33 <snadge> i mean.. what if you're roaming in another country
Dec 11 02:10:50 <Damm> if your roaming in another country it's a 'free' number to text for T-Mobile
Dec 11 02:10:52 <snadge> you get stung for international sms randomly.. unless t-mobile happens to wear that
Dec 11 02:10:55 <Damm> technically it should be free.
Dec 11 02:11:19 <snadge> well in this case.. my provider is incorrectly billing me for a t-mobile feature i have no intention of using
Dec 11 02:11:27 <Damm> If you want an Unlocked HTC Dream that isn't going to be stupid
Dec 11 02:11:32 <snadge> and theres no 'official' solution to that
Dec 11 02:11:33 <Damm> get a Google Developer 1
Dec 11 02:11:40 <Damm> don't buy an Unlocked G1, get a D1
Dec 11 02:11:52 <snadge> i just paid $550 for this phone, before I even know that D1 existed
Dec 11 02:11:55 <Damm> 399$ + 25$ for a D1, vs... you paid 350$ and pain and suffering
Dec 11 02:12:03 <Damm> wow 550$?
Dec 11 02:12:04 * Damm ducks
Dec 11 02:12:07 <Damm> you got raped
Dec 11 02:12:23 <Damm> I can find a G1 on ebay for 350$ tops
Dec 11 02:12:33 <Lieu10ant> owned
Dec 11 02:12:33 <snadge> no thats what thery were at the time.. about $900 australian
Dec 11 02:12:48 <snadge> yeah, they were about $600 USD when i was looking on ebay
Dec 11 02:13:02 <snadge> so they've halved in value in less than a month
Dec 11 02:13:03 <Damm> can't you return the POS?
Dec 11 02:13:17 <Damm> of course
Dec 11 02:13:20 <Damm> patience is a virtue
Dec 11 02:13:37 <snadge> i do have root on this phone.. so if i can flash it with the D1 software, then that will do me fine
Dec 11 02:13:40 <Damm> and besides when you buy an unlocked phone... it's always buyer beware... you never know what hassle your getting until it's too late.
Dec 11 02:13:41 <marix> i picked mine up for 275,  it was used... for 2 days...
Dec 11 02:13:55 <Damm> there is no D1 rom for you to download and install
Dec 11 02:14:13 <snadge> no.. but i will use whatever dodgy technique is necessary to get it on there
Dec 11 02:14:17 <Damm> and technically you need the modified recovery image before you can do anything useful
Dec 11 02:14:42 <Damm> so currently you can keep your root all you want... until you put that modified recovery image your just wasting time
Dec 11 02:15:07 <snadge> i have root.. so basically im just patiently waiting for instructions on how to install the d1 rom onto an unlocked g1
Dec 11 02:15:55 <snadge> rather than lose money on this g1, then shell out more for the dev version.. when they're essentially exactly the same thing
Dec 11 02:16:42 <marix> dude,  backplate...
Dec 11 02:17:49 <snadge> yeah i know.. maybe i can buy that seperately ;)
Dec 11 02:18:05 <snadge> but really.. i have a g1, spewing i didnt wait/know about the d1.. at least its not the end of the world
Dec 11 02:18:13 <snadge> i can save my coin until a better android device comes out
Dec 11 02:18:18 * Damm shrugs
Dec 11 02:18:28 <Damm> I feel no pitty for people who buy unlocked phones...
Dec 11 02:18:47 <Damm> I used to, but I'm colder, harder, much more of an asshole.
Dec 11 02:19:03 <snadge> i wanted a g1.. shrugs.. thankfully i've got root and options
Dec 11 02:19:04 <Damm> and Yes i've bought many Unlocked phones in my life... I always put the Generic Firmware on them.
Dec 11 02:19:17 <snadge> i can put this UK rom on it for now
Dec 11 02:19:22 <Damm> right, so go flash the recovery image, and then the modified UK rom
Dec 11 02:19:26 <Damm> and be happy
Dec 11 02:19:46 <Damm> you can then install the developer bootloader on it after all is said and done... and you should be golden
Dec 11 02:19:55 <Damm> http://forum.xda-developers.com
Dec 11 02:20:06 <Damm> it's in the HTC Dream area (first or 2nd forum I forget)
Dec 11 02:20:18 <snadge> cool.. thanks, i'll do that
Dec 11 02:21:01 * Damm mutters something about condoms
Dec 11 02:21:16 <marix> damn kids,  stay off my lawn!
Dec 11 02:21:56 <marix> when i was your age i had to flash my phone,  bit by bit over usb,  not the fancy over the air nonsense they ave these days.
Dec 11 02:22:24 <JesusFreke> bleh. I had to flash my phone while walking through snow to school :p
Dec 11 02:22:26 <infernixx> like morse code?
Dec 11 02:24:59 <Leeds> I had to flash my phone by toggling switches on the front!
Dec 11 02:25:18 <dot_j> hi all - i'm currently stuck on getting a search result back - i have a MapActivity that calls startSearch in onSearchRequested which ends up in another activity (SearchActiviy) doSearch method
Dec 11 02:25:34 <Leeds> also, I actually am a Yorkshireman
Dec 11 02:25:43 <dot_j> how can i get the result (a GeoPoint) in doSearch back to the original MapActivity?
Dec 11 02:28:56 <Lieu10ant> dude guess what
Dec 11 02:29:07 <JesusFreke> I give up
Dec 11 02:29:39 <Lieu10ant> my friend at schol is making a game where u shoot zombies n shit on the phone using the camera feature. like u point the phone around you, and zombies appear n shit depending on what direction you are facing. but i dont know exactly how it works
Dec 11 02:29:50 <Leeds> n shit? really?
Dec 11 02:29:55 <Lieu10ant> yes n shit
Dec 11 02:30:52 <rwhitby> wonder if it looks like mr hanky ...
Dec 11 02:30:55 <Lieu10ant> i hate how the browser on the phone takes up so much storage on the phone
Dec 11 02:31:04 <Leeds> that's a caching 'bug'
Dec 11 02:31:10 <Lieu10ant> i have to constantly keep deleting everything
Dec 11 02:31:14 <Lieu10ant> like every week
Dec 11 02:32:14 <Lieu10ant> tunewiki is my fav app on the phone
Dec 11 02:32:33 <pfft> emulator: warning: opening audio input failed
Dec 11 02:35:19 <Damm> JTAG
Dec 11 02:35:22 <Damm> it's all about JTAG
Dec 11 02:39:09 <ddock> is there a jtag breakout on the g1?
Dec 11 02:40:43 <Damm> doubt it
Dec 11 02:42:55 <ddock> ah well.  someone had to debug it, there must be at least some n/c pins somewhere.
Dec 11 02:43:48 <Damm> didn't see anything in the service manual
Dec 11 02:44:06 <Damm> and as most of the developers from google have mentioned... most of their development was done ... was with the Emulator
Dec 11 02:46:14 <bpadalino> how does a bricked phone get reprogrammed ?
Dec 11 02:46:23 <Gary|tp> HTC bootloader.
Dec 11 02:46:30 <ddock> i hate chipsets without open datasheets.  ah well.
Dec 11 02:48:19 <bpadalino> interesting - does the MSM chipset have a birds-fly-south functionality that checks something on bootup ?
Dec 11 02:48:55 <marix> thats alot of buzzwords.
Dec 11 02:49:17 <bpadalino> MSM? birds-fly-south ?
Dec 11 02:49:27 <marix> yup
Dec 11 02:49:36 <bpadalino> i didn't realizing i was buzzing
Dec 11 02:49:38 <bpadalino> :(
Dec 11 02:50:52 <SanMehat> ddock: theres jtag on the board, but its *damn* difficult to get to without destroying the device
Dec 11 02:54:27 <ddock> thx san.  gotta get out the uscope and the solder station some time...
Dec 11 02:56:43 <danfuzz> blort
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 11 02:59:57 2008