**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 12 02:59:57 2008
Dec 12 03:00:02 <languish> michaelnovakjr, heya.  The webcast is over, it was a live stream (seems no recording)
Dec 12 03:01:01 <michaelnovakjr_> ah
Dec 12 03:01:09 <michaelnovakjr_> who did the webcast
Dec 12 03:02:01 <snadge> KNY, to my knowledge.. no
Dec 12 03:02:10 <KNY> snadge, lame
Dec 12 03:02:23 <languish> Benakin? at a presentation in PHX  (phoenix group?)
Dec 12 03:03:53 * Disconnect thought save to/from sim was one of the required bits of gsm :(
Dec 12 03:04:10 <languish> you can save from
Dec 12 03:04:13 <gambler__> so what are the best apps to try? Ive got my phone working now. So far the only one Ive tried is Cooking Capsules
Dec 12 03:04:14 <languish> i dunno about to
Dec 12 03:05:35 <KNY> languish, yeah, but that's not of much use when you need to switch to another phone
Dec 12 03:05:56 <snadge> im just looking at microsd cards for my g1.. apparently you can get 16gb microsdhc .. are they worth getting? are they really that much slower than 8gb microsd?
Dec 12 03:06:14 <KNY> I've got 8gb sdhc
Dec 12 03:06:20 <KNY> microsdhc of course
Dec 12 03:06:25 <michaelnovakjr_> i've got a 16gb microsdhc
Dec 12 03:06:27 <KNY> no complaints about performance
Dec 12 03:06:33 <Decavolt> you'll notice no speed difference
Dec 12 03:08:53 <snadge> whats the "hc" mean?
Dec 12 03:09:01 <Acidulous> high capacity
Dec 12 03:09:12 <snadge> i read somewhere that "class 2" and "class 6" that refers to the speed of the card
Dec 12 03:09:24 <snadge> and that class 2 are significantly slower for moving around large amounts of data
Dec 12 03:09:26 <Disconnect> megs per sec
Dec 12 03:10:03 <snadge> there are no class 6 16GB ye?
Dec 12 03:10:27 <Decavolt> there are minute differences when you go all hardcore benchmarking the two, but nothing even remotely noticeable on the phone
Dec 12 03:10:44 <Decavolt> and that's minute, as in tiny, not as in unit measure of time
Dec 12 03:12:29 <snadge> i just like the idea of having 16 gigs in my phone :P
Dec 12 03:12:44 <Decavolt> so do it
Dec 12 03:15:48 <Damm> what are you going to use 16gigs for on the G1?
Dec 12 03:15:59 <michaelnovakjr_> music
Dec 12 03:16:08 <wastrel> hi
Dec 12 03:16:08 <Gary|tp> warez
Dec 12 03:16:14 <Damm> G1 warez
Dec 12 03:16:16 <wastrel> the g1 needs to use the damn sd card
Dec 12 03:16:16 <Damm> lol
Dec 12 03:16:22 <Gary|tp> hey
Dec 12 03:16:26 <wastrel> i want a cache of my email i was trying to find some info on the subway
Dec 12 03:16:30 <Gary|tp> firewallet was cracked, theres warez around
Dec 12 03:16:31 <wastrel> v. freaking annoying
Dec 12 03:16:38 <wastrel> what's firewallet
Dec 12 03:16:51 <Gary|tp> financial app
Dec 12 03:25:23 <SanMehat> yo
Dec 12 03:25:45 <SanMehat> Damm: i have my 16 gig card full of music
Dec 12 03:25:52 <kRutOn>  hello SanMehat
Dec 12 03:26:02 <SanMehat> hey kRutOn
Dec 12 03:26:41 <Gary|tp> waste imho
Dec 12 03:26:53 <Gary|tp> I'm just waiting for an app that will let me stream music
Dec 12 03:27:03 <jsharkey> Gary|tp: five?
Dec 12 03:27:06 <SanMehat> Gary|tp: i like my music with me *shrug*
Dec 12 03:27:20 <Gary|tp> jsharkey: ?
Dec 12 03:27:32 <Gary|tp> SanMehat: Yes, but streaming = more music :P
Dec 12 03:27:35 <jsharkey> Gary|tp: http://code.google.com/p/five/
Dec 12 03:27:45 <SanMehat> Gary|tp: yeah, but i still like to have my collection with me :)
Dec 12 03:28:24 <wastrel> i don't care about music, i want my data
Dec 12 03:28:42 <Leeds> there is a last.fm app - doesn't work too well
Dec 12 03:28:49 <wastrel> the sd card is greviously underutilized by the builtin apps
Dec 12 03:29:06 <languish> heya sam, did you see my question earlier?
Dec 12 03:29:08 <offby1> wastrel: are they actively prohibited from accessing the SD card?
Dec 12 03:29:15 <wastrel> iono
Dec 12 03:29:20 <wastrel> they don't use it tho
Dec 12 03:29:33 <wastrel> i was trying to find an email while i was in the subway today
Dec 12 03:30:22 <SanMehat> wastrel: all your synced email is on the internal flash
Dec 12 03:30:42 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Dec 12 03:31:05 <ismarc> SanMehat: not necessarily
Dec 12 03:31:06 <jsharkey> wastrel: which is good, because you kinda want your email secured
Dec 12 03:31:16 <ismarc> SanMehat: but in general, it should at least mostly be there
Dec 12 03:31:23 <wastrel> secured great but unavailable not so great
Dec 12 03:31:26 <michaelnovakjr_> synced emails are stored in sqlite
Dec 12 03:31:49 <wastrel> we talking imap or gmail
Dec 12 03:31:57 <SanMehat> gmail
Dec 12 03:32:12 <wastrel> and sqlite this is internal flash not sd
Dec 12 03:32:14 <wastrel> ?
Dec 12 03:32:17 <languish> ah damnit
Dec 12 03:32:17 <offby1> I was surprised to learn that the only things that sync are email, contacts, and calendar.
Dec 12 03:32:20 <SanMehat> yes its internal flash
Dec 12 03:32:28 <ismarc> imap messages are stored in sqlite as well
Dec 12 03:32:28 <languish> I keep typing Sam. Yes, I'm a typoing idiot
Dec 12 03:32:30 <languish> anyway
Dec 12 03:32:31 <offby1> If I want to write a note that syncs, I gotta write it as a gmail
Dec 12 03:32:34 <languish> san...
Dec 12 03:32:38 <SanMehat> languish: yeah?
Dec 12 03:32:39 <languish> [21:53] <languish> Was just watching iliyan malchev on a live webcast discussing android
Dec 12 03:32:39 <languish> [21:54] <languish> Any of the google devs know if he ever makes his way in here
Dec 12 03:32:47 <wastrel> but it doesn't sync
Dec 12 03:32:51 <SanMehat> no he doesn't irc
Dec 12 03:32:53 <wastrel> only recent stuff is available
Dec 12 03:33:05 <languish> San, 'k thanks.
Dec 12 03:33:06 <wastrel> i couldn't find the email with the directions on it that i had from last week
Dec 12 03:33:37 <languish> I think some of the other devs should irc a bit more.. I've noticed a few of them don't seem to be as up on what's going on with android as the devs in here
Dec 12 03:33:38 <SanMehat> wastrel: you configure that
Dec 12 03:33:51 <SanMehat> wastrel: in the gmail app options somewhere you configure how much email to pull down and keep
Dec 12 03:34:04 <SanMehat> i believe by default its 'sync recent', but you can switch that to 'sync all'
Dec 12 03:35:19 <wastrel> but since that's not on the card it's going to eat your RAM
Dec 12 03:35:41 <SanMehat> wastrel: RAM != FLASH
Dec 12 03:35:55 <wastrel> used to palm os :]
Dec 12 03:35:58 <wastrel> i meant storage
Dec 12 03:38:06 <Leeds> SanMehat: :-(
Dec 12 03:39:44 <binarybeats> heya
Dec 12 03:40:03 <binarybeats> how do I get the alarm clock to just vibrate instead of using a alarm tone?
Dec 12 03:40:44 <binarybeats> there's no option for silent alarm
Dec 12 03:40:50 <SanMehat> Leeds: what?
Dec 12 03:40:51 * Disconnect is mean.
Dec 12 03:40:58 <Disconnect> www.gotontheinter.net
Dec 12 03:41:07 <wub_> what's alarmy about it if it's silent?
Dec 12 03:41:49 <Disconnect> the buzzing/blinking?
Dec 12 03:41:49 <ismarc> setting alarms are great for getting out of meetings you don't want to be in
Dec 12 03:42:06 <binarybeats> it can still wake up even if it's silent
Dec 12 03:45:39 <kennyyu> hey there, may i know how to do something similar to debugPrint in Android SDK?
Dec 12 03:47:11 <michaelnovakjr_> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/util/Log.html
Dec 12 03:47:11 <Disconnect> Log.d
Dec 12 03:47:18 <Disconnect> ..yah or the actual docs :)
Dec 12 03:48:36 <kennyyu> oh i see.. :) thanks
Dec 12 03:48:50 <michaelnovakjr_> np
Dec 12 03:53:41 <binarybeats> so, no way to set a silent alarm?
Dec 12 03:53:56 <Acidulous> copy a blank sound file to it, use that
Dec 12 03:54:10 <binarybeats> where does it go?
Dec 12 03:54:34 <Acidulous> do you have rings extended installed?
Dec 12 03:54:38 <binarybeats> no
Dec 12 03:55:31 <binarybeats> lemme install it
Dec 12 03:55:48 <Acidulous> if you install rings extended, it will let you pick anything off your sd card, because the music app will see it. i'm not sure how to do it otherwise.. haven't messed around with it enough
Dec 12 03:57:21 <bensonk> Hullo, all.
Dec 12 03:57:29 <SanMehat> hey
Dec 12 03:57:40 <bensonk> I can't get adb to find my G1.
Dec 12 03:57:51 <Leeds> oops
Dec 12 03:57:56 <Leeds> what platform?
Dec 12 03:57:58 <michaelnovakjr_> did you enable usb debugging on the phone bensonk
Dec 12 03:58:03 <bensonk> I'm running linux, and just downloaded the most recent android platform yesterday
Dec 12 03:58:16 <bensonk> michaelnovakjr_: That's under settings/apps/development/USB Debugging ?
Dec 12 03:58:33 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 03:58:38 <michaelnovakjr_> yea
Dec 12 03:58:38 <Disconnect> and for S&G try adb as root
Dec 12 03:58:51 <michaelnovakjr_> you shouldn't need to run it as root
Dec 12 03:59:10 <Leeds> S&G?
Dec 12 03:59:16 <Leeds> shit and giggles?
Dec 12 03:59:19 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 03:59:55 <bensonk> Interesting.
Dec 12 04:00:05 <bensonk> That seems to have worked.
Dec 12 04:00:05 <michaelnovakjr_> ?
Dec 12 04:00:22 <michaelnovakjr_> do you not have permissions on the android directory?
Dec 12 04:00:28 <bensonk> I'm not root.  I want to be root.  Is that a "sucks to be you" situation?
Dec 12 04:00:33 <Disconnect> linux usb stuff needs root sometimes
Dec 12 04:01:00 <bensonk> Let me be more specific: When I kill the server, then run adb as root, things work.  If I run adb as non-root first, the server runs as non-root, and it's all bad.
Dec 12 04:01:19 <Disconnect> yep
Dec 12 04:01:30 <michaelnovakjr_> i've never had to run as root for linux
Dec 12 04:01:34 <Leeds> bensonk: what release of android do you have?
Dec 12 04:01:36 <Disconnect> makes sense, although i hadn't thought about the daemon
Dec 12 04:03:04 <bensonk> But, and this is upsetting, the shell adb gives me is a non-root shell.
Dec 12 04:03:14 <bensonk> Leeds: how do I find out?
Dec 12 04:03:27 <michaelnovakjr_> you don't get root on the device shell
Dec 12 04:03:33 <Leeds> settings->about phone
Dec 12 04:03:35 <bensonk> Can I get root?
Dec 12 04:03:42 <michaelnovakjr_> not without hacking
Dec 12 04:03:57 <Leeds> build number is down at the bottom - if it's rc30 you're SOL, if it's something smaller you're good
Dec 12 04:03:59 <bensonk> michaelnovakjr_: hacking is fine.
Dec 12 04:04:10 <bensonk> It's rc30
Dec 12 04:04:11 <bensonk> :-(
Dec 12 04:04:15 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, no root
Dec 12 04:04:25 <bensonk> Balls.
Dec 12 04:04:26 * Acidulous feels bensonk's rootless pain
Dec 12 04:04:27 <michaelnovakjr_> what do you need it for?
Dec 12 04:04:33 <bensonk> *shrug*
Dec 12 04:04:37 <bensonk> nmap?
Dec 12 04:05:07 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr_: autorotate browser, bluetooth tethering. backup/restore.
Dec 12 04:05:33 <bensonk> I'm not cool with not being root on my devices.  It just bothers me.
Dec 12 04:05:40 <bensonk> Can I install bash?
Dec 12 04:06:11 <Disconnect> if you port it, but its not worth it. its a device, its not a laptop.
Dec 12 04:06:18 <michaelnovakjr_> exactly
Dec 12 04:06:27 <Leeds> the busybox shell is good enough, I think
Dec 12 04:06:30 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 04:06:33 <bensonk> Laptops are devices, and this one blurs the line.
Dec 12 04:06:37 <bensonk> Can I at least get grep?
Dec 12 04:06:41 <Disconnect> bensonk: ..er no it doesn't
Dec 12 04:06:46 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Dec 12 04:06:54 <michaelnovakjr_> grep? for a phone?
Dec 12 04:07:03 <bensonk> Disconnect: you're entitled to your wrong opinion. :-)
Dec 12 04:07:06 <Disconnect> bensonk: busybox
Dec 12 04:07:47 <bensonk> ls | grep d --> grep: permission denied
Dec 12 04:07:48 <Adamant> do you get root on a developer phone if you buy one?
Dec 12 04:08:10 <michaelnovakjr_> Adamant: yes
Dec 12 04:08:10 <Disconnect> Adamant: yah. security is 0 so 'adb shell' is root
Dec 12 04:08:12 <bensonk> Adamant: you can install your own kernel, I'm pretty sure you could have root.
Dec 12 04:08:21 <Adamant> ah
Dec 12 04:08:37 <Adamant> that's pretty attractive then
Dec 12 04:08:51 <bensonk> Fairly expensive though.
Dec 12 04:09:04 <Adamant> yeah, but it beats not being able to update your phone
Dec 12 04:09:06 <Disconnect> esp outside the usa
Dec 12 04:09:07 <michaelnovakjr_> $400 is good for an unlocked phone
Dec 12 04:09:12 <bensonk> *shrug*
Dec 12 04:09:15 <Disconnect> 400 is not bad for an unlocked phone
Dec 12 04:09:18 <Adamant> it's a fair price, really.
Dec 12 04:09:26 <Adamant> for unlocked
Dec 12 04:09:27 <Disconnect> $750+ with shipping is terrible
Dec 12 04:09:33 <bensonk> I figure if you've got a job that makes you enough money that you can afford it, you can't afford the time to play with it.
Dec 12 04:09:53 <Adamant> bensonk: it's not that much more than an iPod
Dec 12 04:09:54 <michaelnovakjr_> that's not true :)
Dec 12 04:10:02 <michaelnovakjr_> ^^ bensonk
Dec 12 04:10:20 <bensonk> It's a rule of thumb. ;-)
Dec 12 04:10:25 <Disconnect> depends on the job
Dec 12 04:10:27 <michaelnovakjr_> not really :)
Dec 12 04:10:38 <Disconnect> i got offered time to write a client for our .com but .. yuck
Dec 12 04:10:42 <michaelnovakjr_> i could get one, and have time to mess around with it if i wanted
Dec 12 04:11:14 <Disconnect> instead i hack on it during my hurry-up-and-wait times
Dec 12 04:17:55 <SanMehat> yo dan
Dec 12 04:18:25 <morrildl> SanMehat: what's up
Dec 12 04:18:34 * morrildl was in all-day training
Dec 12 04:18:45 * morrildl has largely lost the will to live, as a result
Dec 12 04:19:08 <SanMehat> morrildl: re-writing fsck.vfat
Dec 12 04:19:20 <Disconnect> SanMehat: ..?
Dec 12 04:19:21 <swetland> blargh.
Dec 12 04:19:22 <morrildl> SanMehat: it's about time someone did
Dec 12 04:19:29 <Disconnect> ..ok there is that :)
Dec 12 04:19:33 <morrildl> maybe you can just rewrite vfat too?
Dec 12 04:19:35 <SanMehat> swetland: !
Dec 12 04:19:42 <SanMehat> morrildl: unfortunetly no.
Dec 12 04:20:33 <SanMehat> as it turns out... all the FAT disk checkers in *nix were designed to work with floppies... so they tend to balloon > 64 megs when dealing with 8 gig FAT volumes
Dec 12 04:20:47 <morrildl> oh for christ's sake
Dec 12 04:20:58 <morrildl> Good times
Dec 12 04:21:01 <SanMehat> hahaha
Dec 12 04:21:03 <Disconnect> ah
Dec 12 04:21:11 <xtort-> Anyone know of an irc client available yet? Even a for-pay one?
Dec 12 04:21:27 * Disconnect knows fsck.vfat has historically had issues on maemo for that reason, in certain circumstances
Dec 12 04:21:31 <swetland> there's at least one free one out there, but I don't recall the name
Dec 12 04:21:35 <offby1``> xtort-: yes -- gimme a minute
Dec 12 04:21:40 <SanMehat> Disconnect: yeah.. the *last* thing i wanted to do was re-write FAT tools
Dec 12 04:21:41 <morrildl> gfinder ;)
Dec 12 04:21:43 <xtort-> offby1`, k, thanks
Dec 12 04:21:44 <bensonk> xtort-: I've used irssi via SSH (ConnectBot)
Dec 12 04:21:48 <michaelnovakjr_> xtort-: i'm writing one in my free time... its coming along
Dec 12 04:21:55 <SanMehat> Disconnect: soon, i'll write a defrager!
Dec 12 04:21:57 <swetland> I'm still waiting for somebody to do a nice proxied irc client, but may have to eventually break down and do it myself
Dec 12 04:21:59 <offby1``> xtort-: http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk
Dec 12 04:22:04 <xtort-> bensonk, that's what I do now, it leaves a bit to be desired
Dec 12 04:22:09 <xtort-> offby1`, thanks :)
Dec 12 04:22:10 <offby1``> bensonk: I used to do that too
Dec 12 04:22:10 <swetland> san: and a viruschecker and filesystem browser?
Dec 12 04:22:10 <Disconnect> swetland: s/nice// and you have meebo
Dec 12 04:22:16 <bensonk> xtort-: I agree.
Dec 12 04:22:35 <xtort-> michaelnovakjr, good luck, and let me know if you need beta testing- i'm always here on freenode
Dec 12 04:22:40 <swetland> are we going to have put your picture on the packaging?
Dec 12 04:22:50 <swetland> San Mehat's Utilities for Android
Dec 12 04:23:31 <bensonk> So is running busybox commonly done?
Dec 12 04:23:48 <Disconnect> bensonk: it is outside google.com
Dec 12 04:23:58 <Disconnect> all the alternative images (2 so far that i know of) have it
Dec 12 04:24:14 <Disconnect> and its the first step in a few of the 'so you want to port android' guides :)
Dec 12 04:24:33 <Disconnect> (mostly older ones, admittedly, but toolkit is such a pita to get anything done with..)
Dec 12 04:24:34 <bensonk> heh
Dec 12 04:24:35 <bensonk> okay
Dec 12 04:24:44 <bensonk> I'm not a toolkit fan.
Dec 12 04:24:44 <swetland> toolbox, please ^^
Dec 12 04:24:54 <bensonk> lol
Dec 12 04:25:23 <swetland> if you're going to be slagging my absolute bare minimum collection of rapidly and incompletely implemented shell programs, at least get its name right ^^
Dec 12 04:25:30 <Disconnect> ..my toolbox has more than 3 tools :)
Dec 12 04:25:31 <Disconnect> heh
Dec 12 04:25:34 <Disconnect> glovebox
Dec 12 04:25:49 <xtort-> offby1`, thanks a bunch, the client looks pretty good
Dec 12 04:26:12 <Disconnect> its where you put the barely-adequite strangely-small somewhat-breakable tools :)
Dec 12 04:26:34 <swetland> disconnect: beats crapinthetrunk which would include sparetire, jumpercables, and icescraper (totally useless now that I live in CA)
Dec 12 04:26:38 <Disconnect> lol
Dec 12 04:26:49 <Leeds> swetland: which was implemented because Google hates freedom, right?
Dec 12 04:27:21 <Disconnect> Leeds: when you just wanted sh, its smaller than busybox. once you need mount, its still a little smaller. crap, now dhcpc. ok. its probably smaller. etc. :)
Dec 12 04:27:34 <Disconnect> i think the initial cost/benefit analysis was probably wildly off.
Dec 12 04:27:48 <swetland> leeds: more like because I don't want the system to depend on a pile of shellscripts and shelltools (I'm not building unix for phones) and to keep in the apache2/bsd/mit license model for the core system
Dec 12 04:27:53 <Leeds> I thought a desire to avoid GPLed stuff outside the kernel was one of the driving factors
Dec 12 04:28:08 <Disconnect> Leeds: they'd do better rebuilding bluez then..
Dec 12 04:28:08 <Leeds> hence 'hates freedom' :-)
Dec 12 04:28:30 <swetland> ideally we should be able to boot without sh or toolbox, but I think there are one or two things that break that goal at the moment
Dec 12 04:28:30 <Leeds> Disconnect: just you wait until you see what comes over the wall at the end of the month!
Dec 12 04:28:54 <Leeds> ah, hates freedom *and* unix
Dec 12 04:28:58 <Disconnect> swetland: i was just going to make the point that it wouldn't be impossible to do that, compared to having a working phone w/o bluez..
Dec 12 04:29:22 <swetland> I love unix.  Have run it on the desktop for 15 years now.  Not looking for it on my cellphone at the moment
Dec 12 04:29:30 <binarybeats> Thanks for the info, rings extended is excellent
Dec 12 04:29:41 <Leeds> (/me points out that 'hates freedom' is an in-joke from lugradio and probably shouldn't be used here)
Dec 12 04:29:51 <swetland> also, there's no reason why one couldn't dump a crap-ton of standard linux/unix commandline goodies in /data/local/{bin,lib,...}
Dec 12 04:29:57 <swetland> which is why it's there
Dec 12 04:29:59 <Disconnect> swetland: um. yes there is.
Dec 12 04:30:03 <Disconnect> type "mount"
Dec 12 04:30:05 <SanMehat> back
Dec 12 04:30:48 <swetland> well your choice! if freedom, er, I mean commandline unix programs is more important to you than data storage, there ya go ^^
Dec 12 04:30:59 <Disconnect> swetland: not the space. its noexec
Dec 12 04:31:48 <swetland> oh shit what
Dec 12 04:31:55 <swetland> we didn't mount /data noexec did we?
Dec 12 04:31:56 <Disconnect> swetland: so who's working on writing a dhcpd?
Dec 12 04:32:01 <Disconnect> istr it is.
Dec 12 04:32:05 <Disconnect> lemme dig out my usb cable.
Dec 12 04:32:07 <swetland> good lord
Dec 12 04:32:22 <swetland> nosuid, fine. noexec, somebody's getting a little overzealous
Dec 12 04:32:27 <Disconnect> yah well
Dec 12 04:32:31 <SanMehat> swetland: yowza.
Dec 12 04:32:39 <bpadalino> is there an easy way to separate business and personal contacts, sms, etc ?
Dec 12 04:32:49 <swetland> I'll double-check, but if that's the case I'll go argue with the security folks and get it undone
Dec 12 04:32:52 <Disconnect> doesn't this whole discussion consist of differences in "overzealous"? :)
Dec 12 04:32:59 <SanMehat> swetland: yeah we should probably fix that
Dec 12 04:33:13 <swetland> yes, but *I'm* right.
Dec 12 04:33:15 <Damm> I doubt that T-Mobile will allow it.
Dec 12 04:33:23 <Damm> I think I like swetland...
Dec 12 04:33:29 <SanMehat> Damm: They wont have much of a choice
Dec 12 04:33:38 <swetland> tmo has no idea what the noexec bit is. not something they worry about
Dec 12 04:33:52 <SanMehat> Damm: yeah swetland is good peeps
Dec 12 04:34:02 <Disconnect> damn i'm on jf's rc30-1.2 where its just nosuid
Dec 12 04:34:06 <Damm> SanMehat, ah i'm used to Tmo whining and bitching and kvetching over every little thing
Dec 12 04:34:10 <Disconnect> someone else will have to see what "official" is
Dec 12 04:34:11 <swetland> carriers worry about stuff like "can end users replace the system image? we're worried that'll drive up support calls" and so on
Dec 12 04:34:20 <Damm> Disconnect, want me to grab my USB cable (RC30 OTA)?
Dec 12 04:34:25 <michaelnovakjr_> i have it too
Dec 12 04:34:33 <Disconnect> yah before swetland goes and starts yelling :)
Dec 12 04:34:35 <michaelnovakjr_> what am i checking for?
Dec 12 04:34:39 <michaelnovakjr_> i have it plugged it
Dec 12 04:34:41 <Disconnect> just see if /data is mounted 'noexec'
Dec 12 04:34:49 <michaelnovakjr_> sure
Dec 12 04:35:05 <swetland>     mount yaffs2 mtd@userdata /data nosuid nodev
Dec 12 04:35:11 <swetland> yup. that's what I thought.
Dec 12 04:35:25 <Disconnect> ok so my bad. i think i bumped against nosuid originally
Dec 12 04:35:28 <SanMehat> /dev/block/mtdblock5 /data yaffs2 rw,nosuid,nodev 0 0
Dec 12 04:35:29 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Dec 12 04:35:35 <swetland> (from init.rc, latest sources)
Dec 12 04:35:47 <Disconnect> but now that we see that its a "oh, duh" moment - i had /data/busybox set up for a while..
Dec 12 04:36:24 <Damm> swetland, http://gist.github.com/35017
Dec 12 04:36:42 <Damm> only thing that is noexec is /sdcard
Dec 12 04:36:58 <Disconnect> which doesn't really make any more sense than /data would
Dec 12 04:37:00 <Disconnect> but..
Dec 12 04:37:02 <Damm> I wouldn't mind ext2 support in a OTA kernel though so we can format the sdcard with a filesystem that doesn't suck.
Dec 12 04:37:47 <Damm> drwxrwx--x system   system            2008-11-25 11:14 data
Dec 12 04:37:52 <Damm> would be nice if I could read data
Dec 12 04:37:55 <Damm> :(
Dec 12 04:37:57 <swetland> damm: there's an outstanding feature request for that (both for ext2 fs support and for the automounter to try ext2 if fat fails)
Dec 12 04:37:58 <Disconnect> Damm:  cd /data/data
Dec 12 04:38:21 <Damm> Disconnect, same, opendir failed
Dec 12 04:38:21 <Disconnect> and not trying to start a big argument. but why linux over *bsd?
Dec 12 04:38:21 <SanMehat> yeah i think thats assigned to me :)
Dec 12 04:38:33 <swetland> not sure why sdcard needs to be noexec in any case.  will look into tat sometime
Dec 12 04:38:58 <swetland> disconnect: much broader industry support
Dec 12 04:39:20 <swetland> disconnect: more people familiar with linux kernel work
Dec 12 04:39:23 <swetland> that sort of deal
Dec 12 04:40:05 <Damm> the only real embedded BSD based "OS" i'm aware of is from Windriver
Dec 12 04:40:10 <Damm> what was BSD/OS (bsdi)
Dec 12 04:40:35 <swetland> bsd is smaller and some ways cleaner, but linux has the momentum and works surprisingly well
Dec 12 04:40:37 <Disconnect> the reason i was wondering it that it seemed counter to the whole "we're avoiding gpl" to take the big gpl poster child. esp if the reasoning is "upstream/community support" :)
Dec 12 04:40:46 <Disconnect> yah i thought netbsd had a decent arm port
Dec 12 04:40:49 <binarybeats> any idea when flash is coming??
Dec 12 04:40:53 <Disconnect> btu that might hust be s/decent// :)
Dec 12 04:40:57 <Damm> Disconnect, ARM != embedded
Dec 12 04:41:09 <Damm> and NetBSD actually would be more then willing to bendover
Dec 12 04:41:14 <swetland> arm v5? v6? v7?  which of the many many SoCs out there?
Dec 12 04:41:16 <Damm> because they are more then willing to help
Dec 12 04:41:30 * Damm knows a few -core netbsd guys
Dec 12 04:42:05 <binarybeats> yeah, netbsd does seem like the ugly chick at a dance huh?  trying too hard to be noticed?
Dec 12 04:42:11 <SanMehat> hahaha
Dec 12 04:42:16 <Disconnect> hehe
Dec 12 04:42:19 <SanMehat> hahahahaha
Dec 12 04:42:40 <swetland> on the license side, we're avoiding gpl in userspace to give oems flexibility, though we encourage openness.  the kernel, we believe, fundamentally does not embody technology that's worth trying to make secret.  you're not going to beat your competitor by having a slightly more efficient serial driver, etc
Dec 12 04:43:30 <Damm> truthfully there would be no major benefit from netbsd vs. linux in Android
Dec 12 04:43:35 <binarybeats> how about having a slightly faster CPU?  kogan?
Dec 12 04:43:37 <swetland> same reason that I personally think proprietary embedded kernels are on their way out.  there's just not all that much valuable secret sauce out there, there's so much work going into linux, etc
Dec 12 04:43:51 <Damm> there's opinions about it, but the facts are it really doesn't make a huge difference.
Dec 12 04:43:52 <Disconnect> fwiw i don't think you're going to give anything up to a competitor by porting busybox to bionic (and gaining things like upstream dhcp client/server, iptables, etcetcetc) but that gets into stuff i'll argue about :) so..
Dec 12 04:43:58 <swetland> at least once you get to hw that's big enough for something like linux
Dec 12 04:44:11 <binarybeats> I'm still waiting for someone to port ssh over
Dec 12 04:44:11 <SanMehat> ugh
Dec 12 04:44:14 <SanMehat> i hate AMC
Dec 12 04:44:17 <Disconnect> binarybeats: i already did
Dec 12 04:44:19 <SanMehat> they play so many god damned commercials
Dec 12 04:44:25 <binarybeats> sweet!
Dec 12 04:44:26 <Damm> Disconnect, the problem with busybox is quite frankly... it's not just 1 or 2 simple things
Dec 12 04:44:37 <binarybeats> wheere is it?
Dec 12 04:44:53 <Damm> it's easier to push for a udhcpd and udhcp
Dec 12 04:44:54 <swetland> disconnect: it has to do with simplifying the number of license constraints. and a lot of companies are utterly terrified of the GPL.  having some clear boundaries about where GPL code is and what it does and what they have to to to comply helps a lot
Dec 12 04:44:54 <binarybeats> where too, do I need RC30 to run it?
Dec 12 04:45:04 <Damm> then trying to give such a quite frankly wonderful tool as busybox is.
Dec 12 04:45:05 <Disconnect> swetland: yah i used to work at an embedded company. we had a magic goo for msp430 (wireless sensor platforms as a full state machine) and a stock upstream linux dist for some linux projects
Dec 12 04:45:17 <Damm> but busybox on the G1 isn't just worth it.
Dec 12 04:45:35 <binarybeats> and is someone goinig to port bitchX or similar?
Dec 12 04:45:39 <Disconnect> binarybeats: www.gotontheinter.net its still front-page i tink. haven't got the link off the top of my head.
Dec 12 04:45:54 <swetland> my suggestion would be to put together a big 'ol "unix goodies" package with busybox and whatever other stuff people want for the commandline and install it in /data/local or whatnot
Dec 12 04:46:36 <Disconnect> swetland: modulo the highspeed bluetooth, bt tethering is done already. except it needs a dhcpd..
Dec 12 04:46:51 <Leeds> Damm: I worked with a netbsd arm guy for a while, a few years back
Dec 12 04:46:52 <swetland> as far as the core platform goes, our general model is not to try to mimic classic unix/linux and we're more likely to trim down the default tools, etc.
Dec 12 04:47:05 <swetland> there are several dhcpd's out there
Dec 12 04:47:19 <Damm> right, and udhcpd is quite slim/trim/small
Dec 12 04:47:30 <Disconnect> swetland: i doubt they'll be as small as udhcpd (esp since it can replace some of the other tools as well)
Dec 12 04:47:59 <Damm> i mean you could just install busybox and symlink it all over
Dec 12 04:48:01 <Damm> but that's kinda weird
Dec 12 04:48:18 <swetland> maybe not, but be that as it may we're not going to start bundling busybox with the system.  the source is out there, of course, if somebody wants to fork the entire platform over issues like this, we're not stopping them ^^
Dec 12 04:48:40 <Damm> Leeds, my last dealings has been APM/ACPI
Dec 12 04:49:22 <Leeds> might not be worth doing an entire platform fork over busybox
Dec 12 04:50:10 <Disconnect> swetland: maybe i'm missing something (probably?).. can you state simply why everyone is reinventing the wheel there? (and, as a followup, when you'll have that dhcpd done.. ;) ..)
Dec 12 04:50:41 * Disconnect was distracted in a few different directions and probably missed the answer
Dec 12 04:51:36 <swetland> there's not that much wheel reinventing.  toolbox is probably a couple hours worth of work (and some of the bigger bits are based on existing bsd programs, like the shell).  the system uses a ton of existing open source software
Dec 12 04:52:13 <swetland> we, as a matter of platform policy, prefer apache2/bsd/mit licensed components (in that order of preference) in userspace
Dec 12 04:53:11 <swetland> we are not likely to bring in GPL or LGPL software to the core system except where it's already in use (kernel, parts of bluez) and it's in use there because it was the best option and/or not worth building an alternative to
Dec 12 04:54:04 <swetland> I'm sure if somebody cares enough, they will maintain some kind of "better" android distribution including all the awesome stuff we foolishly overlooked
Dec 12 04:54:36 <bertoh> forkin a
Dec 12 04:54:38 <swetland> and oems and carriers are welcome to ship whatever works for them, because hey it's open source and everybody has a choice
Dec 12 04:54:47 <Disconnect> don't get defensive, i am seriously looking for an answer. :) can you elaborate on "as a matter of platform policy"..?
Dec 12 04:54:53 <Disconnect> (reasoning behind)
Dec 12 04:55:15 <Disconnect> it makes sense not to mix it into - eg - dalvik, or any place the carrier might need to put IP..
Dec 12 04:55:18 <Disconnect> no arguments at all :)
Dec 12 04:55:23 <morrildl> Disconnect: it's actually Google's policy
Dec 12 04:55:31 <Leeds> swetland: out of interest - as a serious question - are these sort of platform policies documented anyway?
Dec 12 04:55:33 <Leeds> anywhere
Dec 12 04:55:42 <swetland> the reasoning behind, as I stated above and we've stated before, is we prefer to give OEMs maximum flexibility for including proprietary components if they so choose.
Dec 12 04:55:45 <morrildl> Google prefers ASL 2.0, and uses that license by default for anything we open-source, unless copyleft requires otherwise
Dec 12 04:56:12 <swetland> I'm not sure if there's a canonical document on this but it has been mentioned before.  Would be a good thing to document if it's not though.  We should look into that.
Dec 12 04:57:22 <SanMehat> mmmm i love mmap
Dec 12 04:58:07 <Disconnect> i'm not sure i see a loss of flexibility there, it seems somewhat of a straw-man argument. "if we gave them these capabilities, they would be less flexible" .. if they needed to put IP into userspace they would be exactly where they are anyway - bionic allows non-free linking, and they can invent/port whatever tools are license-safe. with the added flexibility of a bunch of prewritten pre-tested upstream-maintained tools.
Dec 12 04:59:49 <swetland> in any case, it is what it is, it was done for reasons which you may or may not agree with, and we're not planning on changing it.  at the end of the day we want OEMs to be comfortable building devices around this while also making the platform open source
Dec 12 05:00:25 <bpadalino> good idea
Dec 12 05:00:42 <swetland> every piece of GPL'd software included adds another item which places additional requirements on the OEM and/or carrier to fullfill beyond trivial "include this copyright/license statement" type stuff
Dec 12 05:01:55 <swetland> and, as previously stated, many companies are extremely concerned about GPL implications (rationally or otherwise).  Then you start looking at GPLv3 and impact on devices if somebody (for whatever reason) wants to build something with some lame drm / secure bootpath / etc.
Dec 12 05:03:07 <bertoh> hopefully someone builds one that can listen to pandora radio over bluetooth
Dec 12 05:03:41 <Disconnect> once you have one piece (or, in this case, at least 2) you can't tell me its significantly worse to bundle another. its just another tarball. i don't disagree with you that there are places - from a commercial standpoint - you absolutely do not want it. (and eventually scaling issues creep in.) but that fine. we're going in circles again.
Dec 12 05:03:41 <swetland> If we're horribly wrong, maybe we will be crushed in the market by openmoko or a "more free" version of our own open source platform (which someone could certainly make). ^^
Dec 12 05:04:02 <Disconnect> can i check my understanding with a summary real quick?
Dec 12 05:04:16 <swetland> go for it
Dec 12 05:05:09 <Disconnect> google has a preexisting preference for asl/ (damn i lost the list. but those 3 you listed, in order). so far, toolkit and such haven't taken a huge toll in time/effort. and it provides handholding for oems and 'downstream' consumers.. is that a reasonable summary?
Dec 12 05:06:19 <swetland> pretty much.  also we don't intend to require a shell and full collection of unix tools for the system to operate (we're building an embedded mobile platform). they may be useful as addons but are not expected to be required as a core part of the system
Dec 12 05:07:02 <Disconnect> ok so "and in the case of busybox especially, it is overkill for what the device needs" :)
Dec 12 05:07:16 <Damm> 98% of the users won't need busybox on the G1, nor even know it's there.
Dec 12 05:07:16 <swetland> we do happen to include a very minimal shell and some very minimal shell commands because in excange for about 400K of flash they give us some useful help in debugging
Dec 12 05:07:22 <Damm> I'm sure it's more like 99.995%
Dec 12 05:07:24 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 05:07:24 <Damm> but still
Dec 12 05:07:30 <morrildl> Damm: and therefore it is a waste of space
Dec 12 05:07:46 <Disconnect> Damm: pppd, udhcpd.
Dec 12 05:08:05 * Disconnect isn't talking about busybox shell. sure, thats nice, but thats not all it does (nor is it even a required part of the build)
Dec 12 05:08:06 <swetland> now, for a major component that has a lot of value and does not have good alternatives, we are not so inflexible in our license requirements as to blindly avoid it (see: bluez, the linux kernel)
Dec 12 05:08:08 <bpadalino> i have to honestly say i was surprised the first platform was a qualcomm MSM chipset
Dec 12 05:08:15 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 05:08:16 <swetland> pppd is in the platform source
Dec 12 05:08:35 <swetland> bpadalino: why?
Dec 12 05:09:12 <swetland> targeting a nicely powerful single chip solution that is appealing to and already used by quite a few smartphone manufacturers seemed pretty sane to me
Dec 12 05:09:12 <bpadalino> qualcomm is notoriously closed with their chipsets ... allowing someone to publish code on how to boot them up and operate them .. seemed interesting
Dec 12 05:09:16 <bpadalino> i would have thought OMAP first
Dec 12 05:09:21 <bpadalino> since they're more open
Dec 12 05:10:08 <swetland> we preferred to work out an agreement with qualcomm to let us ship linux on their chipsets (again because of industry interest and msm7k being a pretty nice solution)
Dec 12 05:10:37 <swetland> though they're certainly not the only silicon vendor we're working with and I expect to see android devices with other cores as well
Dec 12 05:10:46 <bpadalino> yeah, a lot of manufacturers do use MSM - it's basically MSM and OMAP for everything i can think of
Dec 12 05:11:03 <geist> yeah, unforunately MSM is a pretty good solution
Dec 12 05:11:16 <geist> especially if you want a cheapo but powerful cpu that does cdma + gsm
Dec 12 05:11:32 <swetland> I'm happy we worked out a deal letting us build and ship open source linux support for it
Dec 12 05:11:43 <bpadalino> yeah, it really helps out, that's for sure
Dec 12 05:11:58 <bpadalino> it's really a single chip solution? the baseband is integrated on the same silicon ?
Dec 12 05:12:00 <swetland> geist: and if you're trying to minimize board space, etc, single chip solutions are nice
Dec 12 05:12:13 <swetland> well, technically it's three chips
Dec 12 05:12:29 <bpadalino> gpp, baseband, rfic ?
Dec 12 05:12:42 <geist> yeah, but that's still a chip or two less than most designs
Dec 12 05:12:50 <swetland> msm7k (apps and modem cpus, apps and modem dsps, peripherals, etc), and two smaller companions: pmic (power management) and rfr
Dec 12 05:13:07 <geist> if you do a seperate radio + apps cpu, you typically end up with 5
Dec 12 05:13:15 <geist> two cpus + 2 pmics + rfr
Dec 12 05:13:32 <swetland> geist: and possibly two flash/ram stacked parts, worst case
Dec 12 05:13:32 <geist> and potentially additional flash and ram chips
Dec 12 05:13:38 <Disconnect> don't forget flasha nd ram
Dec 12 05:13:39 <Disconnect> heh
Dec 12 05:13:40 <bpadalino> hrmm .. OMAP seems to work pretty well with a dsp+gpp in a single package with the baseband processing on another chip
Dec 12 05:13:52 <bpadalino> those new OMAP3 with the PoP option is pretty slick
Dec 12 05:14:10 <geist> yeah, omap3 is a nice cpu
Dec 12 05:14:14 <swetland> just need a solution with UMTS support that's ready to ship
Dec 12 05:14:32 <bpadalino> freescale should have some LTE stuff soon enough, right ?
Dec 12 05:14:44 <swetland> omap3 with a PoP umts radio that didn't require additional memory subsystem gunk could be pretty similar to msm7k footprint wise
Dec 12 05:15:10 <swetland> haven't been following freescale, so I'm not sure what's up with them
Dec 12 05:15:24 * morrildl wishes there was a SoC Alpha part  ;)
Dec 12 05:15:32 <bpadalino> SoC Alpha ?
Dec 12 05:15:40 <geist> wtf
Dec 12 05:15:49 <geist> i just wish i had a 5ghz 6502
Dec 12 05:15:49 <morrildl> Yeah a system on chip with the Alpha ISA
Dec 12 05:15:55 <bpadalino> oh
Dec 12 05:15:57 <bpadalino> interesting
Dec 12 05:16:21 <bpadalino> i like ARM - i find their ISA to be pretty good and i like that code is extremely portable across all their cpus for the most part
Dec 12 05:16:43 <geist> bpadalino: sadly it's fracturing a lot with arm
Dec 12 05:16:50 <geist> especially supervisor code
Dec 12 05:16:58 <bpadalino> is it really ?
Dec 12 05:17:11 <geist> there are new variants with the armv7 stuff
Dec 12 05:17:24 <bpadalino> the cortex stuff isn't necessarily backward compatible ?
Dec 12 05:17:28 <geist> and then thumb2 only cpus are having a tough time getting linux support since supervisor stuff changed
Dec 12 05:17:34 <geist> not necessarilly
Dec 12 05:17:38 <bpadalino> :(
Dec 12 05:17:40 <geist> the low end cortexes are thumb2 only
Dec 12 05:17:50 <swetland> that in itself is not horrible
Dec 12 05:17:50 <geist> and supervisor mode is simpler, doesn't have the 7 processor modes, etc
Dec 12 05:17:56 <geist> yeah, it's cleaner, dont get me wrong
Dec 12 05:18:01 <geist> but it's different enough to be annoying
Dec 12 05:18:11 <Damm> swetland, doesn't nphase have a quadband GSM/HSxPA/Wifi/BT/VGA chip?
Dec 12 05:18:12 <swetland> I totally need to get docs on the thumb2-only stuff
Dec 12 05:18:17 <Damm> or was that one's patents invalidated
Dec 12 05:18:19 <Damm> I forget
Dec 12 05:18:19 <Gumby> hi all.  I'm new to testing android and I am wondering how one can find info on where everything is stored.  ie: ringtones, notification noises etc.
Dec 12 05:18:27 <swetland> damm: dunno
Dec 12 05:18:41 <Damm> been awhile since I gave a damn about Qualcomm
Dec 12 05:18:42 <bpadalino> all those radios ... yowzers
Dec 12 05:18:55 <Damm> bpadalino, single chip
Dec 12 05:19:08 <bpadalino> still doesn't get rid of any of the radios inside the chips
Dec 12 05:19:10 <Damm> company I was working for bought it, it was under 100$/chip
Dec 12 05:19:25 <Damm> sold our device for 225$
Dec 12 05:19:26 <Damm> so profit
Dec 12 05:19:50 <swetland> $100?! in like super low volume?
Dec 12 05:19:58 <bpadalino> i've had a lot of bad luck with those integrated radio chips
Dec 12 05:20:01 <Damm> swetland, we only bought 2500$
Dec 12 05:20:09 <Damm> i'm sure if we bought 1.6million it'd be different
Dec 12 05:20:10 <Damm> err 2500
Dec 12 05:20:37 <Damm> if we bought it in lots of 5k it was 79$
Dec 12 05:22:29 <bpadalino> what did you put it into ?
Dec 12 05:23:10 <Damm> bpadalino, connect it to a gps device, custom board... upload gps data, pack it in a box, stick it in a car.
Dec 12 05:23:29 <bpadalino> ah, so not battery powered ?
Dec 12 05:26:23 <Damm> car powered
Dec 12 05:26:26 <Damm> but yeh
Dec 12 05:26:30 <bpadalino> surprised GPS wasn't integrated in with that crazy chip! ;)
Dec 12 05:26:31 <Damm> not battery powered
Dec 12 05:27:02 <Damm> I'm not, we're talking early 2007
Dec 12 05:27:28 * Damm &
Dec 12 05:27:31 <bpadalino> later
Dec 12 05:27:45 <bgupta_> JesusFreke: You around?
Dec 12 05:28:32 <snadge> the only settings i should need for mms, are MMSC, MMS proxy and MMS port?
Dec 12 05:28:47 <snadge> what about this "server" setting and "proxy" setting
Dec 12 05:29:04 <Gumby> is there a way to use the locate command in android? when I try I get permission denied
Dec 12 05:29:22 <snadge> permission denied means the same as "command not found" when not running as root
Dec 12 05:30:04 <JesusFreke1> bgupta? whatcha need? :)
Dec 12 05:30:14 <snadge> i can find tonnes of posts saying that "MMS doesnt work with my g1" - epic fail.. crapdroid ;)
Dec 12 05:30:52 <snadge> oh and is it normal for my 3g to just stop working, requiring my phone to be rebooted?
Dec 12 05:31:01 <bgupta_> Wondering if you got any confirmations from the from Brightstar for your order?
Dec 12 05:31:32 <bgupta_> I got one initial confirmation emial, and then some PHO email withlots of errors in it. haven't heard anything since.
Dec 12 05:31:47 <bgupta_> s/PHO/PHP/
Dec 12 05:31:50 <JesusFreke> no, I never did
Dec 12 05:32:05 <bgupta_> Ok so all is not hopeless. :)
Dec 12 05:32:10 <JesusFreke> you can track by reference on fedex's site with your brightstar order number
Dec 12 05:32:22 <bgupta_> ah
Dec 12 05:32:27 <snadge> oh yay.. my 3g came back again, how random.. maybe it is my provider being crap and not the g1.. that would be a change ;)
Dec 12 05:33:42 <snadge> does someone want to send me an mms just for the hell of it? i'll pm my number :P
Dec 12 05:34:01 <bdodson> I have a quick listview question... how can I get the divider to show up after the last item?
Dec 12 05:34:40 <bgupta_> What part of the fedex site did you use to track?
Dec 12 05:36:29 <snadge> i wonder if im being charged for these unsuccessful mms attempts
Dec 12 05:36:39 <Rob-cs> you are
Dec 12 05:36:42 <Rob-cs> $20 per attempt
Dec 12 05:36:47 <Rob-cs> ;)
Dec 12 05:36:48 <bdodson> sucks.
Dec 12 05:37:44 <snadge> E/HttpUtils(  922): Host name may not be null
Dec 12 05:38:01 <snadge> i found that in my logs before the mms delivery failure message.. could this be a clue? :P
Dec 12 05:38:48 <snadge> im not a complete noob, i have an apn defined for my providers mms settings.. using the mmsc, mms proxy & port they provided me
Dec 12 05:45:22 <offby1> is there any way to mount or unmount the SD card, short of plugging in or unplugging the USB cable?
Dec 12 05:45:55 <DJTachyonAFK> omg .. raging party ... gnight
Dec 12 05:46:49 <languish> lol
Dec 12 05:50:28 <snadge> offby1: not that i know of
Dec 12 05:50:34 <offby1> :-(
Dec 12 05:50:40 <offby1> before R30 it was nicer.
Dec 12 05:51:12 <snadge> the procedure for me has always been plug in cable.. wait for notifaction, click mount
Dec 12 05:54:31 <Tarelerulz> How is the media playing on the g1 ?
Dec 12 05:55:13 <languish> if you encode it properly it plays well
Dec 12 05:55:39 <languish> the current media plays work, but they're not "finished products"
Dec 12 05:55:48 <languish> plays/players
Dec 12 05:56:15 <Gumby> when download files using the android browser, where do thy get stored to?
Dec 12 05:56:16 <languish> djtachyons site has an encoding tutorial www.djtachyon.com
Dec 12 05:56:21 <Tarelerulz> From what I have heard you just simple play movies no other features
Dec 12 05:56:43 <languish> Gumby, it depends on what the file is. generally thr SD card
Dec 12 05:56:52 <Gumby> languish: just to the root?
Dec 12 05:57:25 <languish> Gumby, hmm for most yes, some pictures have gone in to my pictures folder.. but the root directory mainly yes
Dec 12 05:58:34 <Tarelerulz> out side this room there is not much information on what is on the g1 or what program you can get .  Everything is month or so old.  If wanted to make something I could find what I need ,but if I wanted to do research before getting one I would be out of luck
Dec 12 05:58:37 <languish> Tarelerulz, there's more than one mdia player available for android now, with slightly different feature sets
Dec 12 05:59:13 <Gumby> ah... there is a "download" folder created on the sdcard
Dec 12 05:59:26 * Gumby finds his way around the console
Dec 12 05:59:27 <languish> Tarelerulz, android-dls.com has quite a bit of info, as does androidcommunity.com and many other sites
Dec 12 06:01:20 <Tarelerulz> Thanks languish, I did search like video recording just got post from people asking about it.  I am just trying to do as much research as I can before I get one
Dec 12 06:03:21 <unix_infidel> Tarelerulz: there is imeem (radio), audio (mp3, ogg, etc) and video (mp4, m4v, etc) should work fine.
Dec 12 06:03:54 <unix_infidel> imeem is pretty darn slick.  from the UI side it's the best done app i've seen to date.
Dec 12 06:04:16 <Leeds> also, while you can't stream from a playlist, you can stream over HTTP if you get the actual stream address
Dec 12 06:05:45 <Tarelerulz> unix_infidel,  etc on the video saying a lot.  I know of it playing the contrainer format .mp4 ,but I not even heard it play .avi or anything else
Dec 12 06:06:37 <Leeds> I'm annoyed at myself... I found a really clear page a while back with a list of codecs and containers, including the non-free ones added on the G1 - but I haven't been able to find it again
Dec 12 06:07:06 * unix_infidel hopes we get a big feature dump before christmas.
Dec 12 06:07:24 * Leeds hopes for a big dump before... okay, I'll get my hat
Dec 12 06:07:26 * bparker06 hopes a dev can help him :( been sitting here all day waiting
Dec 12 06:07:35 <bparker06> and in #android-dev
Dec 12 06:07:41 <unix_infidel> gives nerds time to play. and fits in with the theme of giving the geeks goodies over holidays
Dec 12 06:07:52 <unix_infidel> 1.0 r1 and dev phones were released on a friday ;-)
Dec 12 06:08:38 <Leeds> I'm trying to prepare my gf for the idea that staying at home and messing with my phone is a good way to spend the 4-day Christmas holiday, rather than, oh, going away or something
Dec 12 06:09:00 <offby1> heh
Dec 12 06:09:01 <unix_infidel> cant live with em cant live without em.
Dec 12 06:09:02 <offby1> good luck.
Dec 12 06:09:23 <bparker06> Leeds: you should go, IMHO :)
Dec 12 06:09:25 <Leeds> I think we'll end up doing a day trip into China... maybe stay overnight
Dec 12 06:10:05 <Leeds> *hopefully* I'll have a letter from Immigration by then, so I won't get my usual anxiety about going through passport control
Dec 12 06:13:13 <bparker06> that's why I like japan... don't need a visa for up to 90days stay :P
Dec 12 06:14:37 <snadge> hmm.. im no closer to figuring out why mms doesnt work
Dec 12 06:15:14 <Leeds> bparker06: 180 days for UK passports in HK :-)
Dec 12 06:17:14 <bparker06> but who can withstand HK's air for 180 days? :P
Dec 12 06:18:07 <Leeds> I've lived here for more than 3.5 years, and I'm pretty sure I've never done a 6 month stretch without crossing a border
Dec 12 06:18:10 <luok> are there any modern pda's with barcode reader hardware add-ons
Dec 12 06:18:25 <luok> this seemed to be common thing on old crappy wince devices
Dec 12 06:18:44 <Leeds> symbol used to make a load of them
Dec 12 06:19:02 <luok> yeah but the ones made by barcode reader companies are super spendy
Dec 12 06:19:30 <surferdude> question: to change the design of the standby screen on android devices i would edit policies  / phone / com / android / internal / policy / impl / LockScreen.java , correct?
Dec 12 06:21:25 <Adamant> swetland: how do you feel about all the fancypants OS kernels that have Common Criteria ratings and such?
Dec 12 06:21:31 <Adamant> like Green River's stuff
Dec 12 06:30:38 <snadge> im on the phone to optus.. and see if they can configure my g1 mms
Dec 12 06:31:39 <JesusFreke> http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/12
Dec 12 06:31:40 <JesusFreke> :)
Dec 12 06:32:00 <offby1> Just uninstalled a bunch of apps I don't use, and the phone seems a lot faster.  Certainly "Computing Application Sizes" is faster.
Dec 12 06:35:57 <Leeds> offby1: what? it's faster to calculate the size used by the apps when there are less of them to count?
Dec 12 06:37:27 <Leeds> JesusFreke: :-D
Dec 12 06:37:35 <bdodson> what's the best etiquette for handling something like a single line EditText query box when enter is hit?
Dec 12 06:37:38 <bdodson> just use onKeyUp?
Dec 12 06:37:40 <JesusFreke> yes?
Dec 12 06:37:51 <JesusFreke> oh, right :)
Dec 12 06:38:27 <Leeds> really, no pony?
Dec 12 06:38:47 <luok> why no keyboard pics
Dec 12 06:38:49 <luok> i'm curious
Dec 12 06:39:02 <JesusFreke> leeds, did you read the linked post? lol
Dec 12 06:39:20 <Leeds> pony, dammit!
Dec 12 06:39:23 <JesusFreke> good point luok. lemme add some
Dec 12 06:39:37 <JesusFreke> gimme a bit though. I'm working on something else atm
Dec 12 06:41:57 <jasta> bdodson: set singleLine, then let the platform deal with it
Dec 12 06:42:39 <bdodson> yeah, I set singleLine, but it's just an EditText.. how do I associate an action?
Dec 12 06:43:01 <jasta> normally, EditText will just move focus on enter if singleLine=true iirc
Dec 12 06:43:59 <bdodson> so if I have a "submit" button next to the EditText, is there a way to make pressing enter do the same  action as that button?
Dec 12 06:44:37 <Leeds> someone who really deserves their pony: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/12/11/218631.aspx
Dec 12 06:44:41 <jasta> yes, just interpret onKeyDown
Dec 12 06:45:04 <bdodson> yeah that's what I figured, just felt a little dirty
Dec 12 06:45:08 <bdodson> thanks :)
Dec 12 06:45:16 <jasta> actually there might be a better way
Dec 12 06:45:19 <jasta> let me look into that
Dec 12 06:45:51 <jasta> nope, looks like google is using onKey / ACTION_UP
Dec 12 06:45:58 <jasta> and KEYCODE_ENTER || KEYCODE_DPAD_CENTER
Dec 12 06:47:15 <bdodson> easy enough
Dec 12 06:47:16 <bdodson> thanks a lot
Dec 12 06:47:52 <cuonglb> ?
Dec 12 06:51:07 <snadge> hmm.. okay i get a different error when sending mms now.. sigh
Dec 12 06:51:09 <meyou-> anyone working on any console emus for android yet? namely nes/snes?
Dec 12 06:51:24 <snadge> E/HttpUtils(  112): Socket is not connected
Dec 12 06:52:17 <snadge> i think im just going to have to give up on it :P
Dec 12 06:58:59 <snadge> JF: have you done much stuffing around with mms messages?
Dec 12 06:59:07 <JesusFreke> nope
Dec 12 06:59:17 <snadge> good :P you dont want to know about it
Dec 12 06:59:38 <JesusFreke> I think I've sent 1 mms message since I originally bought my G1
Dec 12 06:59:43 <snadge> im just annoyed because its an advertised feature of my phone and it clearly does not work
Dec 12 07:00:32 <snadge> can you try send me a pic? :P
Dec 12 07:00:50 <JesusFreke> sure
Dec 12 07:00:53 <JesusFreke> actually, no
Dec 12 07:00:54 <JesusFreke> not atm
Dec 12 07:01:00 <JesusFreke> my dev phone is non-booting atm :p
Dec 12 07:01:11 <snadge> i'll get someone from the same country to try it.. its cheaper that way hehe
Dec 12 07:01:59 <snadge> you bricked your dev phone already? :P
Dec 12 07:03:23 <JesusFreke> nah
Dec 12 07:03:41 <JesusFreke> just temporarily brick-like. :p
Dec 12 07:04:03 <JesusFreke> or rather, it's temporarily imitating a brick
Dec 12 07:04:12 <JesusFreke> until I get fastboot working
Dec 12 07:04:30 <JesusFreke> and not really that great of a brick either. it still boots into recovery
Dec 12 07:38:50 <Foxdie> morning all
Dec 12 07:40:55 <snadge> i told the tech guy from my phone provider, that i had the adb logcat open
Dec 12 07:41:09 <snadge> its quite noisey when you're on a call, and doing stuff
Dec 12 07:41:40 <snadge> his final words were to try putting my sim into another phone and sending an mms message to myself using that.. and see if that works.. wtf? :P
Dec 12 07:49:48 <snadge> hmm.. lots of socket timed out
Dec 12 07:54:35 <Krstnsn> what do you suppose you mean by no bridging android apps?
Dec 12 07:56:35 <bparker06> what happened to android.app.NotificationManager.notifyWithText
Dec 12 07:57:06 <anno^da_> What could lead the ArrayAdapter to an Index Out of Bounds Exception?
Dec 12 07:59:06 <Krstnsn> hey
Dec 12 07:59:09 <Krstnsn> http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/
Dec 12 07:59:20 <Krstnsn> android irc client
Dec 12 08:00:59 <Krstnsn> not sure if that was legal or not
Dec 12 08:01:01 <Krstnsn> but i did it
Dec 12 08:07:17 <xsdg> Krstnsn: we actually really dislike irc
Dec 12 08:07:25 <xsdg> Krstnsn: we prefer multicast carrier pigeons
Dec 12 08:07:44 <JesusFreke> coo coo
Dec 12 08:08:24 <Krstnsn> haha
Dec 12 08:08:28 <Krstnsn> i meant posting of apps
Dec 12 08:08:32 <Krstnsn> not the app its self
Dec 12 08:08:47 <Foxdie> "multicast carrier pigeons"
Dec 12 08:09:00 <Foxdie> you know, this world is full of all kinds of wrongness xsdg
Dec 12 08:09:05 <Krstnsn> thanks for telling me about this place foxdie
Dec 12 08:09:12 <Foxdie> I believe you've got a seat in that hall xsdg  ;) ;)
Dec 12 08:09:28 <Foxdie> Krstnsn, you mean from my post on the android community forum?
Dec 12 08:09:32 <Krstnsn> fo sho
Dec 12 08:09:38 <Krstnsn> im in the efnet android
Dec 12 08:09:42 <Foxdie> you're welcome, make yourself at home :)
Dec 12 08:09:45 <Krstnsn> but doesnt have this many people
Dec 12 08:09:48 <Foxdie> I give you warning though
Dec 12 08:09:52 <Foxdie> this channel is full of crazy people
Dec 12 08:10:02 <Foxdie> (probably why I like it so much ^^)
Dec 12 08:10:03 * JesusFreke runs around crazy-like
Dec 12 08:10:06 <Foxdie> haha
Dec 12 08:10:09 <Foxdie> I was waiting for that :)
Dec 12 08:10:10 <Krstnsn> im pretty insane
Dec 12 08:10:16 <Krstnsn> thats funny jasonchen
Dec 12 08:10:19 <Foxdie> +1 cookie to JF
Dec 12 08:10:20 <Krstnsn> is taht for real or a joke
Dec 12 08:10:30 <Foxdie> jasonchen?
Dec 12 08:10:38 <Krstnsn> ya the op
Dec 12 08:10:40 <RyeBrye> in here is where google employees let their secrets out
Dec 12 08:10:50 <RyeBrye> ok. not really.
Dec 12 08:11:02 <Foxdie> oh, my names jason too, thought you said something like "jasonchan" :)
Dec 12 08:11:14 <Krstnsn> ya one of the ops is jasonchen
Dec 12 08:11:22 <Foxdie> they let all their dirty little secrets out
Dec 12 08:11:23 <Krstnsn> i thought that dude was an apple fanboy
Dec 12 08:11:26 <Foxdie> "we make money, lawl"
Dec 12 08:11:51 <Krstnsn> theres a goog android dev in the other android chan i am in
Dec 12 08:11:57 <Krstnsn> i think hes on the gps group
Dec 12 08:12:13 <Foxdie> there's loads of android devs in here, freenode is mainly a developer network
Dec 12 08:12:24 <Foxdie> lots of popular development projects have their IRC chan here
Dec 12 08:12:40 <RyeBrye> yeah, oss stuff lives on freenode, typically
Dec 12 08:12:50 <Foxdie> #php for example, #mysql, #apache, #videolan, #htc-linux etc
Dec 12 08:13:13 <Foxdie> oh and ##mac
Dec 12 08:13:17 <Foxdie> for the fanboys ;)
Dec 12 08:13:38 <Foxdie> (I'm in there because I'm an IT admin and we have lots of macs, but I'm not an iphone fanboy, G1 all the way baby!)
Dec 12 08:14:03 <Foxdie> I might test that IRC client
Dec 12 08:14:09 <Krstnsn> its sweet
Dec 12 08:14:16 <Krstnsn> ive been running it for 2 days
Dec 12 08:14:29 <RyeBrye-phone> i am in yo yo yo
Dec 12 08:14:38 <Krstnsn> he updates it pretty often
Dec 12 08:14:45 <Krstnsn> liek several times a day
Dec 12 08:14:52 <Foxdie> whoa
Dec 12 08:14:55 <Foxdie> thats not pretty often
Dec 12 08:14:58 * RyeBrye-phone is using the irc app. from his phone
Dec 12 08:15:05 <Foxdie> thats "whenever you blink" in terms of software development
Dec 12 08:15:13 <Krstnsn> ahah ya
Dec 12 08:15:25 <Krstnsn> its sort of annoying cause he doesnt have versions yet
Dec 12 08:15:28 <Krstnsn> i guess
Dec 12 08:15:37 <Krstnsn> so i just have to guess if its updated or not
Dec 12 08:15:49 <Foxdie> He needs version control or something
Dec 12 08:15:52 <Krstnsn> well he just put that up
Dec 12 08:15:59 <Krstnsn> i was getting it from his site
Dec 12 08:16:07 <Foxdie> that the code.google link you posted earlier/
Dec 12 08:16:12 <Krstnsn> which was just a direct link to the apk
Dec 12 08:16:14 <RyeBrye> http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/
Dec 12 08:16:17 <Krstnsn> ya ya
Dec 12 08:16:24 <Foxdie> brb adding it to my G1
Dec 12 08:16:49 <RyeBrye> it's not bad
Dec 12 08:16:50 <Krstnsn> spread it around he asked me to post the link in here so im assuming he wants dudes using it
Dec 12 08:17:13 <Krstnsn> ive had it stay connected for hours... but then sometimes it will disconnect over and over and over
Dec 12 08:17:44 <RyeBrye-phone> i am using it
Dec 12 08:17:45 <Foxdie> sure thats not due to coverage?
Dec 12 08:17:58 <RyeBrye-phone> my thumbs will probably be bleeding
Dec 12 08:18:08 <Krstnsn> it could be but everytime i look at it its full bars
Dec 12 08:18:12 <Krstnsn> i mean i live in seattle
Dec 12 08:18:18 <Krstnsn> so... should have any coverage issues
Dec 12 08:18:22 <Krstnsn> tmo HQ is here
Dec 12 08:18:55 <RyeBrye-phone> they dont necessarily have all their towers by their hq
Dec 12 08:19:20 <Foxdie> could probably have the opposite actually
Dec 12 08:19:21 <RyeBrye-phone> many cell providers these days actually spread them out over the whole area they cover
Dec 12 08:19:23 <spikebike> no, typically all the towers go to where the CEOs have vacation homes ;-)
Dec 12 08:19:37 <spikebike> speaking of which I tried the map which tower you are on app
Dec 12 08:19:39 <Krstnsn> no but id assume it would atleast be towered up due to testing and shit
Dec 12 08:19:43 <Foxdie> lots of on-site micro-cells so they have great coverage, but as soon as you get more than 1/2km away you lose coverage
Dec 12 08:19:46 <spikebike> hole shit, there's a metric butload of tmo towers around
Dec 12 08:19:53 <Krstnsn> smart ass motherfuckers
Dec 12 08:20:08 <RyeBrye-phone> really? i need to try that tower finder app
Dec 12 08:20:12 <spikebike> tons of tiny cities up around tahoe got DSL before anywhere else
Dec 12 08:20:20 <spikebike> it's where all the SBC exec's have houses ;-)
Dec 12 08:20:39 <Krstnsn> anywats
Dec 12 08:20:41 <Krstnsn> anyways
Dec 12 08:20:42 <RyeBrye-phone> sure would make domestic terrorism easier to know exactly where the towers are
Dec 12 08:20:54 <spikebike> rye heh, the FCC has a database
Dec 12 08:20:55 <Krstnsn> when the hell is someone going to root rc30
Dec 12 08:21:02 <spikebike> with a public easy to query web page
Dec 12 08:21:30 <Foxdie> okay here we go
Dec 12 08:21:31 <spikebike> krstnsn where are you?
Dec 12 08:21:34 <RyeBrye-phone> yeah, but my cell wants to be hip
Dec 12 08:21:38 <Foxdie> "write error"
Dec 12 08:21:43 <Krstnsn> seattle
Dec 12 08:21:46 <Krstnsn> on that app?
Dec 12 08:22:05 <Foxdie> yup
Dec 12 08:22:09 <Krstnsn> hmm
Dec 12 08:22:46 <RyeBrye-phone> it is oss... if I wasnt being completely ground to a pulp by deadlines, I might look at the code of the irc app
Dec 12 08:22:50 <Foxdie> "connection established..." "disconnected" "write error" "connecting to irc.freenode.net:6667" "connection established.." "yadda yadda"
Dec 12 08:23:02 <RyeBrye> weird
Dec 12 08:23:06 <RyeBrye> I'm on wifi with mine though
Dec 12 08:23:15 <Foxdie> I was trying on 3G
Dec 12 08:23:21 <Foxdie> I think t-mo block port 6667
Dec 12 08:23:23 <Foxdie> I'll try on wifi
Dec 12 08:23:49 <Krstnsn> he said your sending data on a closed socket
Dec 12 08:23:52 <RyeBrye> I need DCC support so I can warez on my phone
Dec 12 08:24:00 * spikebike makes pretty graphs of parallelism, latency, and bandwidth for memory hierarchies
Dec 12 08:24:31 <Krstnsn> oh 3g shouldnt matter
Dec 12 08:24:34 <Krstnsn> thats what im on
Dec 12 08:24:37 <Foxdie> ooh here we go
Dec 12 08:24:43 <RyeBrye-phone> no tab completion on nicks?
Dec 12 08:24:50 * spikebike would rather have a torrent client than DCC
Dec 12 08:24:53 <Krstnsn> no
Dec 12 08:24:56 <RyeBrye-phone> although tabs on the g1 suck anyway
Dec 12 08:25:06 <Krstnsn> ya with 10gig limit tmo set
Dec 12 08:25:10 <Krstnsn> thatd suck
Dec 12 08:25:18 <spikebike> heh, last month I used 200MB
Dec 12 08:25:27 <JesusFreke> I had about 450MB
Dec 12 08:25:28 <Foxdie-PDA> ok so irc is blocked by tmo. bastards.
Dec 12 08:25:33 <spikebike> 10G would be a butload
Dec 12 08:25:37 <Krstnsn> mine isnt foxdie
Dec 12 08:25:45 <Krstnsn> im on tmo with it
Dec 12 08:25:45 <spikebike> funny irc works on my phone just fine
Dec 12 08:25:57 <Foxdie> oh
Dec 12 08:26:05 <Foxdie> "close" doesn't close a window ie. chanserv's pm
Dec 12 08:26:08 <Foxdie> it closes the network
Dec 12 08:26:12 <Krstnsn> ya
Dec 12 08:26:16 <Krstnsn> i dont know how to do that
Dec 12 08:26:30 <Krstnsn> but it works for what i do
Dec 12 08:26:33 <Krstnsn> chat
Dec 12 08:26:39 <Krstnsn> i just ignore those private windows
Dec 12 08:26:40 <RyeBrye-phone> pepap error
Dec 12 08:26:56 <RyeBrye-phone> err pebpap that is
Dec 12 08:27:07 <Foxdie-PDA> this doesnt look too bad actually :)
Dec 12 08:27:08 <Krstnsn> that dude should really come in here
Dec 12 08:27:17 <RyeBrye-phone> he should
Dec 12 08:27:36 <snadge> im using bitchx on my g1
Dec 12 08:27:38 <Krstnsn> i told him
Dec 12 08:27:41 <Foxdie-PDA> i wish someone would get a working vpn client made for android so i can tunnel past tmos gayness
Dec 12 08:27:48 <RyeBrye-phone> it is like a virtual hot tub in here, and the bubbles just got turned on
Dec 12 08:28:01 * RyeBrye-phone grabs a towel
Dec 12 08:28:11 <spikebike> foxdie so we can see a leave/join everytime your screen sleeps?
Dec 12 08:28:24 <Foxdie> indeed :)
Dec 12 08:28:35 <Foxdie> hmm does that actually cause a disconnect?
Dec 12 08:28:37 * Foxdie presses power button
Dec 12 08:28:46 <Foxdie> well my G1's in sleep now
Dec 12 08:28:49 <Krstnsn> ya
Dec 12 08:28:51 <RyeBrye-phone> you are still here
Dec 12 08:28:55 <RyeBrye-phone> press harder
Dec 12 08:29:02 <Krstnsn> like i said ive been running the app for 2 days and it just idles
Dec 12 08:29:09 <Foxdie> cool :D
Dec 12 08:29:11 <Foxdie> this I like
Dec 12 08:29:14 <Foxdie> I might leave it running 24/7
Dec 12 08:29:17 <Krstnsn> i do
Dec 12 08:29:28 <Foxdie-PDA> muhahaha
Dec 12 08:29:31 <Krstnsn> hhaha
Dec 12 08:29:34 <Foxdie-PDA> irc in the car driving home
Dec 12 08:29:38 * nyt burps
Dec 12 08:29:44 <Foxdie-PDA> the best way to die
Dec 12 08:29:48 <RyeBrye-phone> yes
Dec 12 08:29:49 <Krstnsn> nyt is the dude resposible for that app
Dec 12 08:29:58 <RyeBrye-phone> nyt, this app sucks
Dec 12 08:30:00 <Foxdie-PDA> yo nyt
Dec 12 08:30:01 <RyeBrye-phone> just kidding
Dec 12 08:30:01 <Krstnsn> haha
Dec 12 08:30:11 <RyeBrye-phone> it is good
Dec 12 08:30:11 <Foxdie-PDA> just testing your app now
Dec 12 08:30:20 <swetland> weird client
Dec 12 08:30:24 <swetland> inbound traffic is instantaneous
Dec 12 08:30:29 <swetland> outbound is 5-10s delayed for me
Dec 12 08:30:41 <swetland> wonder if they're doing a ton of little tiny writes to the socket
Dec 12 08:30:41 <Foxdie-PDA> was just saying itd be cool to keep this on in the car on the way home. the best way to die ;)
Dec 12 08:30:56 <RyeBrye-phone> swetland - the irc app?
Dec 12 08:31:05 <nyt> its all one write if youre talking about irc
Dec 12 08:31:08 <nyt> if youre getting a delay its network related
Dec 12 08:31:12 <Foxdie> You know, one thing I don't like about typing on the G1 is the mission it is to punctuate your text.
Dec 12 08:31:24 <RyeBrye-phone> yeah. damn htc
Dec 12 08:31:24 <Krstnsn> ya it is foxdie
Dec 12 08:31:25 <swetland> that time it just went wright through. hmmm. guess it is just network sluggishness
Dec 12 08:31:33 <swetland> s/wright/right/
Dec 12 08:31:39 * Foxdie-PDA test describes
Dec 12 08:31:41 <RyeBrye-phone> damn. network.
Dec 12 08:31:43 <Foxdie-PDA> oooh
Dec 12 08:31:51 <nyt> i added a lot of stuff to the client
Dec 12 08:31:53 <nyt> but theres a lot more
Dec 12 08:32:02 <nyt> i have a todo but im not pasting the entire thing up there
Dec 12 08:32:09 * Foxdie-PDA :: Breaking Benjamin - So Cold
Dec 12 08:32:14 <swetland> considering a "force landscape" option?
Dec 12 08:32:19 <JesusFreke> hey swetland, I don't suppose you happen to have a windows fastboot binary laying around somewhere do you? :)
Dec 12 08:32:41 <swetland> I do not (I never use windows), but I know that we're digging one up to put online somewhere
Dec 12 08:32:43 <Foxdie> nyt, saw it on the site, I think it'd make it an invaluable app if its that feature rich
Dec 12 08:32:47 <swetland> saw an email thread about it earlier
Dec 12 08:32:52 <JesusFreke> cool :)
Dec 12 08:32:53 <Foxdie> one thing you DO need to add is the ability to close windows
Dec 12 08:32:58 <Foxdie> example
Dec 12 08:33:03 <JesusFreke> I was hoping I wasn't going to have to try and built it in cygwin
Dec 12 08:33:06 <nyt> long press window name
Dec 12 08:33:07 <nyt> or /l
Dec 12 08:33:08 <Foxdie> I have (srv) #android ChanServ
Dec 12 08:33:16 <Foxdie> but can't close cha.. oh
Dec 12 08:33:19 <swetland>  /part works
Dec 12 08:33:25 <Foxdie> awesome
Dec 12 08:33:26 <nyt> part and /l are same
Dec 12 08:33:30 <nyt> I need to write docs
Dec 12 08:33:32 <Foxdie> ahh, good ol' irc commands :)
Dec 12 08:33:34 <Krstnsn> /cycle doesnt work
Dec 12 08:33:40 <nyt> thats cuz i didnt write cycle yet
Dec 12 08:33:42 * nyt adds to list
Dec 12 08:34:12 <Foxdie-PDA> nyt gets a cookie for caring about his app after writing it
Dec 12 08:34:14 <Krstnsn> wait long press will close a window or the whole server session?
Dec 12 08:34:20 <swetland> nice client
Dec 12 08:34:31 <RyeBrye-phone>  /msg swetland No shit? free upgrade for all G1 users? includes a laser and toaster oven? thanks for the insider secret!
Dec 12 08:34:33 <Foxdie> Krstnsn, long press brings up an option to close the current window
Dec 12 08:34:33 <RyeBrye-phone> woops
Dec 12 08:34:38 <Foxdie> but not the whole network, unless you're on the (irc) tab
Dec 12 08:34:40 <RyeBrye-phone> darn spaces
Dec 12 08:34:40 <Foxdie> brb phone
Dec 12 08:35:04 <tauno> hey, US dudes - am I understanding it right that you pay for receiving SMS?
Dec 12 08:35:04 <Krstnsn`> oh shit thats gnarly
Dec 12 08:35:17 <RyeBrye-phone> tauno - yeah
Dec 12 08:35:19 <JesusFreke> tauno, yep
Dec 12 08:35:26 <RyeBrye-phone> $4 USD
Dec 12 08:35:29 <Foxdie-PDA> what! that sucks
Dec 12 08:35:33 <RyeBrye-phone> it is a bargain!
Dec 12 08:35:42 <Foxdie-PDA> its free in the uk
Dec 12 08:35:48 <JesusFreke> more like $.10 :p
Dec 12 08:35:50 <tauno> erm.. what stops me from sending you 10k messages so you have top pay like crazy?
Dec 12 08:35:57 <RyeBrye-phone> j/k - but some places charge $0.20 or so
Dec 12 08:36:00 <Krstnsn`> haha
Dec 12 08:36:08 <RyeBrye-phone> tauno - my icbms?
Dec 12 08:36:09 <Krstnsn`> i have unlmtd text
Dec 12 08:36:42 <tauno> I mean really.. if I dislike somebody.. then I'll just use a open SMSC and send thousands of SMS to him.. or is there some protection from it?
Dec 12 08:36:46 <RyeBrye-phone> not all messages charge... if it comes from a shortcode i am pretty sure it can be free
Dec 12 08:36:50 <Krstnsn`> nyt soft keys would give me a hardy
Dec 12 08:36:55 <nyt> soft keys?
Dec 12 08:36:56 <swetland> nyt: want some other random feedback or do you have enough to keep you busy already?
Dec 12 08:36:57 <nyt> remapping?
Dec 12 08:37:03 <nyt> swetland: i'll take all i can get
Dec 12 08:37:07 <Krstnsn`> on screen keys
Dec 12 08:37:21 <Krstnsn`> i personnally hate the hardware keys
Dec 12 08:37:27 <nyt> oh
Dec 12 08:37:31 <nyt> they're adding that to android eventually
Dec 12 08:37:36 <nyt> soon from what i understand
Dec 12 08:37:36 <swetland> I'd suggest making the line that shows the channels / etc inverted or somehow more separate from the channel content
Dec 12 08:37:42 <Krstnsn`> oh ya q1
Dec 12 08:37:56 <nyt> yeah I'm going to add a bar under it
Dec 12 08:37:58 <swetland> maybe like the "titlebar" dealies in gmail, etc
Dec 12 08:38:04 <nyt> haven't got to adding it yet
Dec 12 08:38:16 <nyt> need to draw one for each layout
Dec 12 08:38:18 <swetland> menu-# shortcuts to go directly to channels would be nice
Dec 12 08:38:28 <nyt> oh forgot to add that to todo
Dec 12 08:38:38 <nyt> will have menu-X go to channel
Dec 12 08:38:41 <nyt> where X is first letter of channel
Dec 12 08:38:42 <nyt> will cycle
Dec 12 08:38:46 <nyt> also the volume will cycle channels
Dec 12 08:38:49 <nyt> and the camera will cycle servers
Dec 12 08:39:02 <swetland> and what I really want is to back it by a proxy server so people on the other side don't see my connect/disconnect all the time (and messages are buffered)
Dec 12 08:39:08 <RyeBrye-phone> but camera is needed to snap my picz
Dec 12 08:39:10 <Krstnsn`> whats the battery drain on this like? mine has been plugged on constently since i got it
Dec 12 08:39:14 <swetland> I should try one of the stock irc proxy client dealies and see how that works
Dec 12 08:39:22 <nyt> swetland: you can use psybnc or znc
Dec 12 08:39:23 <nyt> i prefer znc
Dec 12 08:39:28 <nyt> it works well
Dec 12 08:39:39 <nyt> i've been busy with work and havent had time to add features until last night
Dec 12 08:39:43 <nyt> i added bnc support to it
Dec 12 08:39:47 <nyt> and have it sharing a bnc with my other client
Dec 12 08:39:48 <nyt> which is quite nice
Dec 12 08:40:07 <swetland> cool, will give it a shot.
Dec 12 08:40:13 <spikebike> swetland I ahd the same though about a proxy
Dec 12 08:40:18 <spikebike> and then I thought about encryption
Dec 12 08:40:24 <nyt> after this im going to write a proxy based aim
Dec 12 08:40:27 <spikebike> and I got closer and closer to connectbot + irssi ;-)
Dec 12 08:40:34 <nyt> with bidirectional acknowledgements
Dec 12 08:40:39 <nyt> how nice would that be =]
Dec 12 08:40:50 <nyt> thats what the default aim should have
Dec 12 08:40:51 <nyt> =[
Dec 12 08:40:55 <nyt> ala sk3
Dec 12 08:41:00 <nyt> my main gripe with android
Dec 12 08:41:05 <Krstnsn`> nyt you should get a version system going....
Dec 12 08:41:15 <nyt> Krstnsn`: i just started one on google code
Dec 12 08:41:30 <Krstnsn`> oh i didnt notice i
Dec 12 08:41:39 <nyt> if you check the old links it redirs you to google code
Dec 12 08:41:42 <Krstnsn`> oh by date
Dec 12 08:41:50 <RyeBrye-phone> does it hilight lines w your nikc?
Dec 12 08:41:54 <swetland> what would be *really* nice would be if the proxy avoided sending down non-directed-at-you traffic while the client was not in the foreground
Dec 12 08:42:11 <RyeBrye> RyeBrye-phone: does it hilight lines with your nick?
Dec 12 08:42:17 <nyt> swetland: well stuff like znc, will backlog traffic
Dec 12 08:42:18 <RyeBrye-phone> nope
Dec 12 08:42:19 <nyt> so you can disconnect
Dec 12 08:42:20 <nyt> and reconnect
Dec 12 08:42:21 <Krstnsn`> haha
Dec 12 08:42:25 <nyt> and it replays what you missed
Dec 12 08:42:25 <swetland> don't chew a lot of battery for random chatter while you're not looking at it, but get direct messages if somebody sends 'em
Dec 12 08:42:38 * swetland nods
Dec 12 08:42:43 <spikebike> ah, that would be cool
Dec 12 08:42:49 <nyt> RyeBrye: it highlights the person who said it, and if you werent in that window, highlights that window name in red
Dec 12 08:42:56 <RyeBrye> oh, ok
Dec 12 08:42:58 <nyt> that will also be joined with notifications when i can
Dec 12 08:43:10 <nyt> but not ready yet
Dec 12 08:43:14 <nyt> havent had time
Dec 12 08:43:24 <Foxdie> heh
Dec 12 08:43:30 <Foxdie> got a very taboo topic here
Dec 12 08:43:47 <Foxdie> "should I take IRC to the toilet with me" because it'd sure beat a newspaper ;)
Dec 12 08:43:51 <nyt> all the time.
Dec 12 08:43:56 <JesusFreke> sure foxdie :D
Dec 12 08:44:03 <nyt> what would really benefit android is a built in backbuffering proxy service for aim and other stuff
Dec 12 08:44:05 <RyeBrye> Just don't update your nick with your status
Dec 12 08:44:07 <nyt> that would be amazing =]
Dec 12 08:44:08 <Foxdie> lmao
Dec 12 08:44:25 <nyt> .NickServ: nyt is already registered. [03:44]
Dec 12 08:44:26 * nyt sighs
Dec 12 08:44:46 <swetland> nyt: yup
Dec 12 08:44:51 <Foxdie-Poop> ;)
Dec 12 08:44:59 <swetland> nyt: that's what I think we got rally right about AIM on hiptop
Dec 12 08:45:10 <nyt> swetland: you worked for danger?
Dec 12 08:45:12 <swetland> didn't do infinite buffering, but would survive being offline for a couple minutes
Dec 12 08:45:20 <Foxdie-PDA> will leave my g1 at my desk :p
Dec 12 08:45:23 <swetland> yeah, I did the 1.0 vm and a bunch of the os
Dec 12 08:45:27 <nyt> ah
Dec 12 08:45:33 <nyt> i had issues with the sk
Dec 12 08:45:34 <Foxdie> (you know I just realised how sweet the auto rotation works in your IRC app nyt)
Dec 12 08:45:36 <nyt> shit would work perfect in the emulator
Dec 12 08:45:37 <nyt> and not on the device
Dec 12 08:45:40 <Foxdie> automatically reformats text :)
Dec 12 08:45:41 <Krstnsn`> ya aim on hiptop was fucking sweet
Dec 12 08:45:44 <nyt> so i got fed up and stopped developing
Dec 12 08:45:45 <swetland> hated the emulator
Dec 12 08:45:53 <nyt> anyway
Dec 12 08:45:58 <nyt> if google or tmo have no plans for buffering aim
Dec 12 08:46:01 <nyt> im going to write one
Dec 12 08:46:03 <nyt> and sell it as a service
Dec 12 08:46:04 <swetland> that's why we did an arm emulator for android instead of trying to do it higher up
Dec 12 08:46:06 <Krstnsn`> do it
Dec 12 08:46:19 <RyeBrye> When I want to make my phone go faster, I raise it in the air - point it towards the north start - and say "I have the power of Swetland" - I think I see a 5 to 10% performance gain for 5 minutes following that ritual
Dec 12 08:46:22 <jasta> i have found the emulator to be quite good actually
Dec 12 08:46:25 <swetland> nyt: might run into issues with aol
Dec 12 08:46:27 <RyeBrye> s/start/star
Dec 12 08:46:35 <snappy> Is there a gmail application for the g1? I'm only exposed to the sdk.
Dec 12 08:46:42 <jasta> snappy: yes
Dec 12 08:46:45 <Krstnsn`> nyt .. whats the battery pull on this app for you being connected all the time
Dec 12 08:46:48 <nyt> swetland: i'll have to contact them first and see i guess
Dec 12 08:46:51 <nyt> Krstnsn`: no idea
Dec 12 08:47:03 <swetland> I also swore I'd never do another mobile product after hiptop/sidekick.  Ah well!
Dec 12 08:47:30 <RyeBrye> ah.. cool... in non-landscape mode it's like perfect lurker mode
Dec 12 08:47:37 <nyt> yes
Dec 12 08:47:45 <RyeBrye> It's like the worlds worst ebook
Dec 12 08:47:46 <snappy> Is there a way to install it on the emulator or is it only available to handset owners?
Dec 12 08:48:04 <RyeBrye> snappy: Gmail? handset only
Dec 12 08:48:18 <Krstnsn`> that gmail is shit
Dec 12 08:48:30 <Krstnsn`> you cant even attatch nonpictures
Dec 12 08:48:44 <Krstnsn`> o
Dec 12 08:49:01 <RyeBrye> What's even worse is that it wont let you attach pictures of yourself if you are ugly, either :(
Dec 12 08:49:02 <Krstnsn`> doesnt support more then one account which is really annoying
Dec 12 08:49:51 <Krstnsn`> atleast support the linked accounts you have set up in gmail
Dec 12 08:51:36 <RyeBrye> Someone needs to write an app that will blink incoming SMS out using morse-code when the phone is alseep
Dec 12 08:52:05 <spikebike> I kinda want a audio interface to a g1
Dec 12 08:52:10 <spikebike> assuming a earpiece or something
Dec 12 08:52:29 <spikebike> announce changes in state, read notifications, changes in a friends network status, etc.
Dec 12 08:53:00 <RyeBrye> spikebike: make it like an R2D2? have it have different bleeps to communicate?
Dec 12 08:53:17 <spikebike> yeah, maybe some beeps, and some speech, even if its' just a recording
Dec 12 08:53:27 <spikebike> I.e. I'd happily read the name of every one of my contacts
Dec 12 08:54:09 <spikebike> boop boop beep da beep (kinda like footsteps) for someone coming online
Dec 12 08:54:20 <spikebike> boop boop deep da boop (offline)
Dec 12 08:54:47 <spikebike> soft buzz for incoming email
Dec 12 08:54:55 <spikebike> loud buzz for incoming email from a contact
Dec 12 08:55:22 <Tarelerulz> spikebike  it should be nice sound.  That not door open or closing like most .  some kind of bell that is in the key of c
Dec 12 08:55:54 <RyeBrye> It should parse the incoming email and generate a melody based on a rudimentary understanding of the contents
Dec 12 08:56:00 <Krstnsn`> wtf morse code
Dec 12 08:56:21 <spikebike> sure
Dec 12 08:56:33 <RyeBrye> I'm totally going to do a morse-code blinking app at some point
Dec 12 08:56:34 <spikebike> use spam techniques like basian analysis
Dec 12 08:56:47 <spikebike> incoming... another long rant by coworker
Dec 12 08:56:52 <Tarelerulz> Morse code is an interesting idea how it tell you when you get message or somethign like that
Dec 12 08:57:04 <spikebike> a chain letter /joke from beth (again)
Dec 12 08:57:16 <RyeBrye> Have it tap you out the actual message... it'd give you an incentive to learn morse code
Dec 12 08:57:24 <spikebike> sisters whining about the weather
Dec 12 08:57:30 <Krstnsn`> only issue.... the notification led is so sunk in its hard to see at certain angle
Dec 12 08:57:34 <RyeBrye> and with the screen off - you could tap-back a reply in morse code as well! :)
Dec 12 08:57:40 <spikebike> heh
Dec 12 08:57:44 <spikebike> or humm it ;-)
Dec 12 08:57:47 <RyeBrye> Krstnsn: the buzzer could be used too
Dec 12 08:58:07 <spikebike> anyone know the freq response of the speaker/microphone?
Dec 12 08:58:28 <spikebike> apparently it's not uncommong for the small ones to go above what you can hear
Dec 12 08:58:40 <spikebike> so phones could send test beeps to look for friendly g1's close by ;-)
Dec 12 08:59:58 <Tarelerulz> Could the g1 run something like festival ? it does text-to-speech
Dec 12 09:00:20 <RyeBrye> if you put 2 g1's together do the compasses fight each other?
Dec 12 09:00:34 <RyeBrye> I noticed if I put a screwdriver near the power button the compass deflects
Dec 12 09:01:03 <JesusFreke> rye: try it near a real compass :p
Dec 12 09:01:16 <RyeBrye> they still exist?
Dec 12 09:01:27 <spikebike> I saw a text to speech in the market
Dec 12 09:02:09 <Tarelerulz> spikebike Did you see what it based on ?
Dec 12 09:02:44 <spikebike> no
Dec 12 09:02:47 <spikebike> didn't look
Dec 12 09:02:52 <spikebike> sort by time, it's new
Dec 12 09:03:00 <xsdg> Tarelerulz: real TTS wants more CPU than the G1 has to offer
Dec 12 09:03:24 <Foxdie> back
Dec 12 09:03:30 <spikebike> heh, festival on the n800 (slower cpu) isn't ad
Dec 12 09:03:31 <spikebike> bad
Dec 12 09:03:44 <spikebike> hell even on the 770
Dec 12 09:03:53 <xsdg> spikebike: festival also doesn't sound that good
Dec 12 09:03:57 <spikebike> ya
Dec 12 09:04:04 <spikebike> it helps if you kind of know what it's saying
Dec 12 09:04:09 <spikebike> i.e. turn by turn spoken directions
Dec 12 09:04:12 * xsdg nods
Dec 12 09:04:22 <spikebike> which the g1 doesn't have I might add
Dec 12 09:04:34 <RyeBrye> Yeah, I want TOmTom to port their crap over
Dec 12 09:04:36 <spikebike> in fact if the g1 had half the stuff the n800 did I'd be a very happy camper indeed
Dec 12 09:04:45 <Tarelerulz> Festival does an ok job.  Knowing what it saying does help ,but I think you could understand if you never heard it before .
Dec 12 09:05:55 <xsdg> Tarelerulz: I should be clear, by "real TTS" I mean "TTS that you could listen to for a while without tossing the phone out of a window"
Dec 12 09:06:28 <xsdg> Tarelerulz: the big thing that most TTS apps lack is proper intonation and pacing
Dec 12 09:06:48 <Tarelerulz> xsdg, that is bit much. I have festival read whole wiki artical on stuff and never had trouble
Dec 12 09:07:10 <Leeds> getting a java wrapper around flite might be good
Dec 12 09:09:24 <Leeds> http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/flite/
Dec 12 09:09:32 <Tarelerulz> xsdg, you know of better open source tts out there ? if so I would like to know about it . I like festival ,but if there is better I would like to know
Dec 12 09:11:07 <xsdg> Tarelerulz: not "better" and "usable," no :o)
Dec 12 09:11:07 <Tarelerulz> leeds, you ever heard flite in action ?
Dec 12 09:11:23 <Leeds> sure, it sucks... but it's very small
Dec 12 09:11:38 <Leeds> it's like festival only less clever
Dec 12 09:11:38 <xsdg> Tarelerulz: I think gnuspeech is on the right track, but it fails at being usable.  Also, it needs a lot more tuning than where it is right now
Dec 12 09:12:06 <Tarelerulz> I have looked int oo speech to text that is open source to and find stuff ,but nothing in whole program
Dec 12 09:13:32 <Leeds> nothing in whole program?
Dec 12 09:14:18 <Tarelerulz> Like you could put into a program if you wanted to add it ,but not program that use they make.  Festival is its own program and not just part of other one like an add on
Dec 12 09:14:54 <Leeds> hence suggesting that flite with a small java wrapper would be a good thing
Dec 12 09:15:11 <Tarelerulz> That is good idea leeds.
Dec 12 09:16:05 <Foxdie> :)
Dec 12 09:16:08 <RyeBrye-phone> I still think ocr would be awesome in the platform
Dec 12 09:16:36 <Leeds> RyeBrye-phone: does the Google OCR stuff have a web API
Dec 12 09:17:00 <RyeBrye-phone> my se p990 would ocr business cards and add them to my contacts - surprisingly well too
Dec 12 09:17:13 <RyeBrye-phone> Leeds - not sure. I doubt it
Dec 12 09:17:44 <RyeBrye-phone> sending ocr jobs to the cloud would certainly be easier
Dec 12 09:18:02 <Tarelerulz> ocr and the fact it use camra  a whole world could open up to you
Dec 12 09:18:36 <RyeBrye-phone> ocr without a camera would be a bit odd
Dec 12 09:19:06 <spikebike> why?
Dec 12 09:19:19 <Leeds> my SE G900 also
Dec 12 09:19:33 <Tarelerulz> As for myself I want to see medai player for g1 that is on par with itunes.   Something that can do movies and music and orgize them both
Dec 12 09:19:33 <RyeBrye-phone> where would you get the O to CR?
Dec 12 09:19:35 <spikebike> we had a automatic digital sender, you just type in an email address and drop a stack of paper on it
Dec 12 09:19:53 <spikebike> it did a real nice job so the result was very OCR friendly
Dec 12 09:20:01 <spikebike> not to mention surprisingly small files resulted
Dec 12 09:26:34 <snadge> ok so my phone conversations drop out .. at least with one friend of mine.. mms doesnt work.. lets see, what else can i complain about ;)
Dec 12 09:28:39 <tauno> insane requirements - my app has to be able to store and efficiently display texts of lengths up to 200k characters
Dec 12 09:29:17 <tauno> just holding the string in memory takes ~400kb of memory :/
Dec 12 09:30:15 <tauno> imagine what it takes to /wrap/scroll/draw this :/
Dec 12 09:30:34 <tauno> also apply formatting and styles and stuff..
Dec 12 09:31:22 <tauno> no wonder I have to make these damn hacks everywhere :P
Dec 12 09:32:37 <Gary|tp> Google has an OCR?
Dec 12 09:33:33 <Leeds> http://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/
Dec 12 09:34:12 <Tarelerulz> How , sentive is the touch screen on the g1 ?
Dec 12 09:34:32 <xtort-> medium?
Dec 12 09:34:57 <JesusFreke> sounds about right
Dec 12 09:35:10 <JesusFreke> and it's capacitive, so you can't use your fingernail, or a stylus
Dec 12 09:35:31 <JesusFreke> so it's a bit tough being super-precise
Dec 12 09:35:49 <Gary|tp> I got a stylus that works with it
Dec 12 09:35:52 <Gary|tp> but it's CRAP
Dec 12 09:36:19 <Gary|tp> If it didn't come in a bundle with a bunch of other really cheap chargers etc I'd send it back. You have to press very hard for it to register.
Dec 12 09:40:44 <xtort-> I hope my htc port splitter thing comes today
Dec 12 09:40:49 <xtort-> long trip from china
Dec 12 09:50:39 <spark__> hey guys, anyone here received his/her dev 1 phone yet?
Dec 12 09:50:50 <JesusFreke> yup
Dec 12 09:50:54 <JesusFreke> got mine today
Dec 12 09:51:59 <Tarelerulz> How much is the data plan for the g1?
Dec 12 09:52:07 <JesusFreke> $25/mo
Dec 12 09:52:16 <JesusFreke> in the US at least
Dec 12 09:52:52 <Tarelerulz> How much for normal phone use ?
Dec 12 09:53:07 <xtort-> $35 will get you a decent plan
Dec 12 09:53:12 <JesusFreke> I think the minimum is $30/mo
Dec 12 09:53:16 <spark__> JesusFreke: ah, I have your blogpost open right now ;)
Dec 12 09:53:20 <JesusFreke> :D
Dec 12 09:53:54 <spark__> JesusFreke: about the apps-differences with the G1, this is something that can be replaced, no?
Dec 12 09:54:04 <spark__> (gtalk only, no voicedial)
Dec 12 09:54:14 <JesusFreke> spark, definitely
Dec 12 09:54:16 <Tarelerulz> what do you guys hope to see in the g1 in the feature ? Do any you use Linux and put stuff on it via usb
Dec 12 09:54:25 * sparkle nods
Dec 12 09:54:44 <sparkle> i want an asterisk port that interfaces with calls directly :D
Dec 12 09:55:50 <spark__> JesusFreke: and the fact that ro.secure is set to 0, is that a problem somehow? and the bootloader can be changed as well, right?
Dec 12 09:56:23 <JesusFreke> sparkle: I was documenting what came on the phone out of the box. Everything can be changed :)
Dec 12 09:56:40 <spark__> JesusFreke: (I'm looking for any reasons that might indicate I'm better off waiting for the 'ordinary' G1, I'm in the Netherlands)
Dec 12 09:57:30 <Tarelerulz> I read some where g1 is getting on on screen keyboard .  Is that true
Dec 12 09:57:31 <sparkle> :)
Dec 12 09:57:34 <JesusFreke> spark, if  you get a rootable G1, you can make it the same functionality wise as a dev phone
Dec 12 09:58:18 <JesusFreke> sparkle: btw, I wasn't talking to you with that last message. I had thought you == spark__ :)
Dec 12 09:58:30 <Krstnsn`> isnt the true dev g1 grps only?
Dec 12 09:58:51 <JesusFreke> it's the same hardware as the G1
Dec 12 09:59:13 <Krstnsn`> oh i would assume that i had just heard a rumour
Dec 12 09:59:20 <JesusFreke> supports all the same 3G frequencies and stuff as the G1
Dec 12 09:59:31 <spark__> JesusFreke: well, in that case I guess there's no option left for me but to order one ;)
Dec 12 09:59:45 <JesusFreke> spark, be careful though :)
Dec 12 09:59:47 <swetland> note that that does mean no 3G on AT&T (not a supported band)
Dec 12 10:00:03 <JesusFreke> if you don't get a rootable G1, you're out of luck :)
Dec 12 10:00:07 <swetland> but 3G/UMTS works just about everywhere else
Dec 12 10:00:42 <spark__> JesusFreke: hm? I'm talking about the dev 1?
Dec 12 10:01:05 <JesusFreke> spark: oh, nm :)
Dec 12 10:01:54 <Krstnsn`> i want root
Dec 12 10:02:12 <Krstnsn`> wanted to slap debian on here
Dec 12 10:02:12 <swetland> chances of pre rc30 g1s turning up in the wild will be getting pretty low, as rc30 has been loaded at the factory since the OTAs started
Dec 12 10:02:46 <swetland> possibly still some channels where devices before the update haven't sold through yet
Dec 12 10:03:52 <Krstnsn`> someone should get root for 30
Dec 12 10:04:06 <Krstnsn`> i mean it cant be that hard can it?
Dec 12 10:04:47 <JesusFreke> yes. it's that hard :p
Dec 12 10:05:03 <Tarelerulz> any of you read much on the bebian user land stuff you can get for the g1 ?
Dec 12 10:05:16 <Krstnsn`> just figured with the code available
Dec 12 10:05:55 <JesusFreke> krstnsn, the code is available for the RSA algorithm too. But that doesn't mean it's breakable
Dec 12 10:06:04 <JesusFreke> open source != unsecure :p
Dec 12 10:07:23 <Krstnsn`> well im not a retard... just some shits broken down in a matter of hours
Dec 12 10:07:33 <sparkle> Tarelerulz: i run a kerberos 5 and afs client on mine :)
Dec 12 10:08:01 <JesusFreke> Krstnsn, a lot of very bright people have looked at various ways of obtaining root on RC30
Dec 12 10:08:09 <sparkle> actually just about anything that doesn't need to directly hit the display or audio hardware will build
Dec 12 10:08:19 <sparkle> it's a standard kernel
Dec 12 10:08:26 <sparkle> almost :)
Dec 12 10:08:58 <JesusFreke> Krstnsn: there's definitely not a lack of effort. they just did a really good job of securing everything
Dec 12 10:09:10 <Krstnsn`> cool cool
Dec 12 10:09:41 <Tarelerulz> Do any of you play videos on the g1 ?
Dec 12 10:11:02 <cutmasta> anybody here who ordered a dev set to europe/germany?
Dec 12 10:40:50 <eldenz> is the G in the statusbar meaning UMTS? E would be for EDGE, right?
Dec 12 10:42:29 <eldenz> grr, getting confused with all the abbrev lingo^^ UMTS seems to be 3G while HSDPA is a protocol for UMTS/3G..
Dec 12 10:42:40 <eldenz> so the G probably means GPRS?
Dec 12 10:43:34 <geist> probaly, yeah
Dec 12 10:44:48 <eldenz> and there is an E icon if i had EDGE coverage here? (which i don't)
Dec 12 10:44:58 <eldenz> or does the fall under the G icooon
Dec 12 10:46:24 <spark__> can anyone here tell me whether the shipping costs mentioned by google (when ordering a dev 1 phone) include the VAT of the 'target'-country? As in, I live in the Netherlands, we have 19% VAT here; is this amount already included in the mentioned shipping costs?
Dec 12 10:46:49 <spark__> I read something about 'country specific fees', which sounds a bit vague to me.
Dec 12 10:47:31 <eldenz> spark__, no guarantee but i've just read a forumpost somewhere that said in *his* shipping costs the VAT is included
Dec 12 10:47:49 <spark__> eldenz: do you have the link to that post?
Dec 12 10:48:14 <eldenz> spark__, it's in german though
Dec 12 10:48:15 <spark__> eldenz: it's rather crucial, otherwise I'd have to pay an insane amount of money for the G1 :S
Dec 12 10:48:24 <spark__> eldenz: eh, dev 1
Dec 12 10:48:51 <spark__> (it would add another 120 dollars to the 600 dollars total price)
Dec 12 10:48:57 <eldenz> hm, now i read it again and i'm no longer sure..
Dec 12 10:49:20 <eldenz> do you understand german?
Dec 12 10:49:25 <spark__> http://www.engadget.com/profile/2432035/ (is this guy reading the same thread? :))
Dec 12 10:49:29 <spark__> yeah, quite a bid
Dec 12 10:49:56 <eldenz> spark__, http://forum.vis.ethz.ch/showpost.php?p=175946&postcount=34
Dec 12 10:50:07 <eldenz> but content is about the same as your link :)
Dec 12 10:50:36 <eldenz> yeah third time reading i think again it's included^^
Dec 12 10:50:51 <geist> mine says E
Dec 12 10:50:57 <geist> and i know it's on edge
Dec 12 10:50:58 <eldenz> geist, cool, thanks
Dec 12 10:51:20 <yang> Are there other phones allready supported by android?
Dec 12 10:51:26 <cutmasta> spark__, i already ordered a g1
Dec 12 10:51:29 <cutmasta> to germany
Dec 12 10:51:30 <geist> it's a dev fone on at&t, so it can only go up to edge
Dec 12 10:51:34 <cutmasta> nearly 500 eur
Dec 12 10:51:37 <cutmasta> incl. vat
Dec 12 10:51:43 <spark__> cutmasta: ah; and you're certain it includes *german* vat, yes?
Dec 12 10:51:43 <geist> since the umts band for tmo is incompatible with at&t
Dec 12 10:51:53 <cutmasta> spark__, yes, 19%
Dec 12 10:52:05 <cutmasta> delivery should be done within 8-10 days
Dec 12 10:52:11 <cutmasta> they said
Dec 12 10:52:19 <cutmasta> hopefully before xmas
Dec 12 10:52:25 <spark__> cutmasta: you're 19% certain? ;)
Dec 12 10:52:32 <cutmasta> :)
Dec 12 10:58:06 <anno^da_> Has someone got an answer to that question? http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/aa4379f27c12316d
Dec 12 12:05:53 <spark__> cutmasta: right, ordered one as well!
Dec 12 12:07:44 <ttuttle> good morning #android!
Dec 12 12:25:05 <blau-MikeDG> ugh
Dec 12 12:25:20 <blau-MikeDG> users :(
Dec 12 12:27:55 <djc> ugh, why hasn't my DP1 shipped yet?
Dec 12 12:28:07 <Gary|tp> I stoled it.
Dec 12 12:28:32 * djc *gasps*
Dec 12 12:31:40 <blau-MikeDG> anyone use dgAlert?
Dec 12 12:34:24 <ttuttle> djc: oh man, i hope it gets there soon. they're so awesome.
Dec 12 12:36:37 * ttuttle 's G1 levels up.  ttuttle's G1 learns [NDA]!
Dec 12 12:58:11 <DJTachyonAFK> DP1?  Thats inappropriate
Dec 12 12:59:41 <blau-MikeDG> is there a way to disable vibrations for notifications
Dec 12 13:03:17 <cutmasta> spark__, ok, cool
Dec 12 13:03:27 <cutmasta> hopefully we get the dev ones before 24th
Dec 12 13:03:29 <cutmasta> :)
Dec 12 13:38:14 <ttuttle> DJTachyonAFK: "inappropriate"?
Dec 12 14:17:33 <Lieutenant> hey who was that one dude
Dec 12 14:17:36 <Lieutenant> that made that one app
Dec 12 14:17:39 <Lieutenant> taht missed call one
Dec 12 14:18:41 <Disconnect> ...wow
Dec 12 14:18:51 <Disconnect> seriously. wake&bake is bad for you.
Dec 12 14:19:39 <Disconnect> hey.. so random question for the (sleeping) goog/platform guys :)
Dec 12 14:19:56 <Disconnect> i figured out part of why my phone is constantly killing off apps.
Dec 12 14:20:23 <Disconnect> tons of background services, even on apps that don't need them (eg FB, which is set to never poll - and never does, afaict - runs a thread.)
Dec 12 14:20:38 <anno^da_> Lieutenant: I did it
Dec 12 14:21:22 <Disconnect> what about a startup/running thread manager? "this is whats running: [X] Facebook: Onboot? [X]" .. toggle it off now or remove the auto-start..
Dec 12 14:22:21 <Disconnect> (think - ugh - windows services manager)
Dec 12 14:22:24 <Disconnect> only useful
Dec 12 14:22:54 <Disconnect> but it'd require a new platform permission i suspect (hmm. unless you want to call startup/running services "global preferences" :) ..)
Dec 12 14:24:28 <jbq> Disconnect: the system definitely needs to go further in telling users what's going on in their phone, and in allowing to disable apps without uninstalling them.
Dec 12 14:24:36 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 14:25:27 <anno^da_> jbq: Thanks for your help yesterday in the Groups about the keeping a service alive. It safed me much time thinking about it. :)
Dec 12 14:25:32 <Disconnect> istr that was a big argument when the g1 first got released :) but i discovered yesterday (after a reboot) that apps are spawning something like 8 services on boot, only about 2 of which i need :)
Dec 12 14:26:13 <jbq> anno^da_: no problem.
Dec 12 14:26:58 <ttuttle> jbq: you've gotta be careful to keep users from disabling important bits of an app and then blaming the dev that it doesn't work anymore.
Dec 12 14:28:17 <Disconnect> ttuttle: yah but i have a great example with that facebook app (not picking on it specifically, its just a good example) .. i have it set to never poll. and in fact, it -can't- because every time i open it it wants me to log in (and notifications/etc don't work until i do) .. so i could uninstall it, which is mosquito+grenade, or i could just say "don't run this service at boot"
Dec 12 14:28:51 <ttuttle> Disconnect: yeah, but that's a problem with the app, not a setting that you need to have.
Dec 12 14:28:59 <Disconnect> it'll start up on it's own when i start the main app. (alternately, if i want it to stop polling I could just "close this service" and - again - it'd stop notifying until I reopen it)
Dec 12 14:29:38 <DJTachyonAFK> ttuttle: nm ;)
Dec 12 14:30:04 <Disconnect> ttuttle: its a problem with the platform - i can install a ton of apps and suddenly nothing works, even when I don't run them. unless you're gonna flip everything to a viral open source license so we can fix our own apps, "oh well the app is broken, tough shit" is the wrong answer.
Dec 12 14:30:09 <DJTachyon> argh can someone post the media player source code so i can rip out the media file parsing section?
Dec 12 14:30:21 <DJTachyon> running a VM through Remote Desktop is painful
Dec 12 14:30:40 <cutmasta> :)
Dec 12 14:32:39 <Disconnect> s/you're/google/
Dec 12 14:32:58 <Disconnect> (and yay no bot speaking out of turn. boo, no bot offering urls and information when requested.)
Dec 12 14:35:16 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: ssh ftw
Dec 12 14:35:28 <ttuttle> DJTachyon: remote desktop is a horrible hack.
Dec 12 14:36:20 <Disconnect> jbq_: i thought you seemed awfully quiet. where did you drop out?
Dec 12 14:36:51 <jbq_> when you said "i have a great example with that facebook app"
Dec 12 14:36:57 <puhleez> DJTachyon: X Window network transparency
Dec 12 14:37:51 <jbq_> Preventing services from starting at boot doesn't achieve much, though. They could also start themselves on connectivity changes, or on a heartbeat timer.
Dec 12 14:39:00 <Disconnect> there is certainly a ui complexity vs capability issue there. but being able to say "stop this now" "don't start this on boot" and "don't start this automatically" (with the warning that the app could reset that if you run it) seems like it would cover it pretty well
Dec 12 14:39:21 <Disconnect> (where 'automatically' covers anything that could fire it up other than the main app)
Dec 12 14:39:51 <jbq_> Yeah. Disabling an app's broadcast receivers would probably be a good step.
Dec 12 14:40:19 <jbq_> Disabling its services when it's not the top activity would probably be worth trying as well.
Dec 12 14:41:31 <tauno> ..OR if all users would just uninstall apps that don't behave nicely, then the app makers would be forced to fix their apps (like facebook).. but yeah.. that will never happen :(
Dec 12 14:44:40 <blau-MikeDG> i spawn services on boot for my apps
Dec 12 14:45:04 <blau-MikeDG> :/
Dec 12 14:45:18 <jbq> blau-MikeDG: it's OK if you have a good reason.
Dec 12 14:45:18 <tauno> ..OR you could leave ugly comments in the market :P (go go, Disconnect.. show the Facebook developers some anger)
Dec 12 14:46:02 <jbq> blau-MikeDG: my code (the download manager) spawns a service each time it has a pending download and network connectivity.
Dec 12 14:46:26 <[nine]> pinch me. i reported a transmitter fault to t-mobile. and they responded to it *as a transmitter fault*.
Dec 12 14:46:37 <Disconnect> i think its reasonable to say that running the app can restart services. (as to whether it can reregister on boot, etc .. hmm. maybe "never allow" .. and we're climbing the complexity tree again)
Dec 12 14:46:51 <brocktice> [nine], Are you sure you don't just need to reboot your phone every 24 hours?
Dec 12 14:46:54 <Disconnect> sorry, the mac decided to flip rapidly and randomly between wifi and ethernet :(
Dec 12 14:46:55 <blau-MikeDG> jbq: my has a service on boot that holds a callStateListener
Dec 12 14:46:57 <blau-MikeDG> and does nothing else
Dec 12 14:47:08 <[nine]> brocktice: :p yeah, pretty sure. 3g data broken. if i switch to 2g only, it works.
Dec 12 14:47:08 <blau-MikeDG> i thin its retarded and dont udnerstand why call states arent broadcasted
Dec 12 14:47:29 <blau-MikeDG> but its the only way i can reliably monitor all calls :(
Dec 12 14:47:30 <Disconnect> tauno: its not just facebook tho.
Dec 12 14:47:33 <brocktice> [nine], I never understood why they think that's the problem.
Dec 12 14:47:36 <jbq> blau-MikeDG: *nod*
Dec 12 14:47:38 <anno^da_> Does someone know if there is a Broadcast sent when plugging in the usb cable
Dec 12 14:48:18 <jbq> anno^da_: in a future version, there'll be a broadcast when the charging state changes.
Dec 12 14:48:29 <Disconnect> totally unrelated, but seriously, can we either update the topic or blank it? :) no adp1 mention (pretty big android news) no new-oha-members, no pointer to channel rules/guidelines..
Dec 12 14:48:35 <jbq> anno^da_: and there's a broadcast when the SD card is unmounted.
Dec 12 14:48:41 <Disconnect> jbq: what about headset detection?
Dec 12 14:48:59 <brocktice> jbq, It's my impression from the docs and the developers list that eventually there will be an incoming call broadcast, yes?
Dec 12 14:49:02 <anno^da_> jbq: Is it ACTION_MEDIA_SHARED
Dec 12 14:49:05 <[nine]> brocktice: orange uk customer services give me the chills. "data isn't working" "so reboot your phone" "i did, it's not working" "i'll resend the settings through" "no! it works in other areas, just not this area"
Dec 12 14:49:05 <Disconnect> it'd sure be nice if music would stop when i unplug it all
Dec 12 14:49:09 <jbq> Disconnect: I don't know anything about audio routing :(
Dec 12 14:49:14 <anno^da_> because I tried that but cant catch the broadcast
Dec 12 14:49:27 <tauno> Disconnect, adp1?
Dec 12 14:49:45 <brocktice> my adp1 should arrive today.
Dec 12 14:49:55 <Disconnect> tauno: devphone. there's a url somewhere.
Dec 12 14:50:00 <tauno> ah, sry
Dec 12 14:50:05 <tauno> THAT adp1 :)
Dec 12 14:50:07 <brocktice> 		
Dec 12 14:50:07 <brocktice> "On FedEx vehicle for delivery" as of 2 hours ago.
Dec 12 14:50:32 <Disconnect> tauno: www.gotontheinter.net/node/12 has JesusFreke's writeup comparing it to a g1
Dec 12 14:50:32 <BlindOracle> brocktice: is there a place to track the order progress of dev phones?
Dec 12 14:50:50 <jbq> anno^da_: looks like the various ACTION_MEDIA_* broadcasts deal with the state of the SD card.
Dec 12 14:50:52 <brocktice> BlindOracle, You can look up your tracking number using your order number on the fedex site as a "reference" number
Dec 12 14:50:57 <brocktice> At least for oders in the states
Dec 12 14:51:03 <brocktice> *orders
Dec 12 14:51:12 <brocktice> Learned that from JesusFreke
Dec 12 14:51:19 <BlindOracle> brocktice: okay...seems mine has not progressed yet
Dec 12 14:51:25 <brocktice> Mine shipped on the 10th fwiw
Dec 12 14:51:35 <DJTachyon> ugh junior high kids just did a walkthrough here
Dec 12 14:51:37 <brocktice> BlindOracle, What do you mean? It doesn't pull a tracking number?
Dec 12 14:51:41 <BlindOracle> still showing "Order Confirmatin" and that's it
Dec 12 14:51:57 <BlindOracle> brocktice: I've not received anything other than a confirmation
Dec 12 14:52:06 <brocktice> Doesn't that have an order number on it?
Dec 12 14:52:12 <anno^da_> jbq: Yeah I tested them but the just get fired when you unmount the sd card from the settings menue. Nothing fired that broadcast when plugging in the usb cable.
Dec 12 14:52:13 <brocktice> Did you get an email or print a page when you ordered?
Dec 12 14:52:33 <BlindOracle> email
Dec 12 14:52:38 <brocktice> BlindOracle, I got an email with order number, billing address, shipping address
Dec 12 14:52:41 <brocktice> etc
Dec 12 14:52:42 <jbq> anno^da_: yeah, I'm pretty sure that plugging/unplugging USB doesn't send a broadcast in 1.0.
Dec 12 14:52:53 <brocktice> use the order number to track by reference on the fedex site
Dec 12 14:53:02 <anno^da_> jbq: I'm just trying to override the LED color for charging since a lot of users asked that to get their LED notifications while the USB cable is plugged in.
Dec 12 14:53:10 <BlindOracle> brocktice: yes, that's the order confirmation which a graphic that loads which simply indicates order confirmation
Dec 12 14:53:15 <djc> brocktice: for outside the US, it's UPS, I think
Dec 12 14:53:21 <brocktice> djc, Oh right
Dec 12 14:53:28 <djc> but my order number doesn't work right now, apparently
Dec 12 14:53:28 <brocktice> BlindOracle = outside of the States?
Dec 12 14:53:34 <djc> so not sure if that works at all?
Dec 12 14:53:34 <BlindOracle> brocktice: in us
Dec 12 14:53:46 <brocktice> https://www.fedex.com/AltRefTracking?cntry_code=us
Dec 12 14:53:47 <djc> to be fair, the UPS site says that some tracking data isn't available right now
Dec 12 14:54:05 <brocktice> You need the reference, destination country, and destination postal code if you're in the states
Dec 12 14:54:17 <jbq> anno^da_: ah, I see. I don't know how much you'll be able to achieve that today. In a future version, I think it'll be possible.
Dec 12 14:54:52 <BlindOracle> brocktice: the problem is, I've not received a tracking number. Only an order confirmation. I have no idea the status of my order.
Dec 12 14:54:57 <brocktice> BlindOracle, I know
Dec 12 14:55:04 <brocktice> Does it have "order number" on the confirmation?
Dec 12 14:55:05 <BlindOracle> oh ok
Dec 12 14:55:08 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: right. they don't send tracking. you use the order number as 'alternate reference'
Dec 12 14:55:28 <BlindOracle> the order number is the tracking number?
Dec 12 14:55:30 <brocktice> no
Dec 12 14:55:34 <brocktice> but you can look it up on that page I linked
Dec 12 14:55:36 <brocktice> with the order number
Dec 12 14:55:38 <BlindOracle> k
Dec 12 14:55:41 <brocktice> it's a "reference"
Dec 12 14:55:41 <anno^da_> jbq: Thanks for that. If you come across something else just drop me a message. So I will step over this point on my list now. :-)
Dec 12 14:57:24 <BlindOracle> brocktice: is says to continue I need to enter the account number
Dec 12 14:57:29 <brocktice> no
Dec 12 14:57:38 <brocktice> enter the destination country and zip
Dec 12 14:57:46 <brocktice> along with the reference
Dec 12 14:57:51 <BlindOracle> doh
Dec 12 14:58:05 <ttuttle> oh god
Dec 12 14:58:06 <BlindOracle> brocktice: guess it hasn't shipped yet. thanks for the info
Dec 12 14:58:11 <brocktice> :(
Dec 12 14:58:12 <ttuttle> it's happening again
Dec 12 14:58:19 <brocktice> ttuttle, ?
Dec 12 14:58:29 <ttuttle> brightstar's tracking for adp1s is justt as bad as for the olpc :(
Dec 12 14:58:39 <brocktice> ttuttle, What tracking?
Dec 12 14:58:43 <ttuttle> * just
Dec 12 14:59:01 <ttuttle> brocktice: see above... "alternate reference numbers"...
Dec 12 14:59:12 <brocktice> I was being sarcastic
Dec 12 14:59:13 <ttuttle> brocktice: they've got more database keys than brains.
Dec 12 14:59:28 <brocktice> BlindOracle, when did you order?
Dec 12 14:59:30 <ttuttle> brocktice: oh
Dec 12 14:59:33 <ttuttle> brocktice: lol
Dec 12 14:59:38 <spark__> brocktice: I'm in the Netherlands; that fedex link is only for tracking in the US, no?
Dec 12 14:59:51 <brocktice> spark__, Yeah apparently internationally it's UPS
Dec 12 15:01:01 <BlindOracle> brocktice: 9th
Dec 12 15:01:12 <brocktice> Ah okay
Dec 12 15:01:25 <brocktice> it should ship Monday then probably
Dec 12 15:01:29 <brocktice> I ordered on the 6th
Dec 12 15:01:33 <BlindOracle> brocktice: guess it will ship between now and Monday
Dec 12 15:01:53 <BlindOracle> brocktice: :P Seems some of us are more in tune that others
Dec 12 15:03:31 <spark__> JesusFreke: btw, do you have a picture of the dev's keyboard as well perhaps?
Dec 12 15:07:03 <marix> chrome is coming along nicely,  wonder if we will see any updates to the g1 browser in the short term.
Dec 12 15:07:29 <pandzilla> wi3
Dec 12 15:07:32 <pandzilla> woops.
Dec 12 15:08:37 <spark__> pandzilla: that's a short password ;)
Dec 12 15:08:59 <pandzilla> haha, it was a failed window switch, sorry to disappoint :)
Dec 12 15:11:25 <BlindOracle> is the default g1/android browser chrome?
Dec 12 15:12:11 <joeyoh> i think it's actually something somewhat different than chrome
Dec 12 15:12:15 <joeyoh> but it IS webkit
Dec 12 15:12:20 <joeyoh> based
Dec 12 15:12:25 <brocktice> yes, chrome is the application built around webkit
Dec 12 15:12:51 <brocktice> "Browser" is the application on Android, which also uses webkit for rendering.
Dec 12 15:12:57 <brocktice> Catchy name, eh?
Dec 12 15:14:07 <Disconnect> ..by that logic, apple invented chrome. they just called it 'safari'. :)
Dec 12 15:14:15 <Disconnect> and kde has come with chrome for linux for years
Dec 12 15:14:40 <brocktice> Disconnect, apparently I wasn't communicating clearly.
Dec 12 15:14:48 <brocktice> I was differentiating between the two.
Dec 12 15:15:07 <brocktice> s/the application/an application/
Dec 12 15:15:15 <Disconnect> yah. except for everyone who comes in assuming its chrome on the g1 because google touched it.
Dec 12 15:15:25 <brocktice> There are of course plenty of browsers built on webkit.
Dec 12 15:15:37 <brocktice> It's come a long way since when it was only in Konqueror.
Dec 12 15:15:58 <Disconnect> yah. it works now. :)
Dec 12 15:16:05 <brocktice> Exactly
Dec 12 15:16:33 <marix> there was some talk that a large change would be made to the browser when the chrome js engine was ported over,  it would be called chrome lite... but in retrospect i believe that was more just blog bs than true product planning.
Dec 12 15:17:55 <jbq> Until properly defines what "chrome" is, the discussion is pretty pointless, isn't it? (especially as there are multiple features that differentiate chrome from other browsers).
Dec 12 15:18:27 <marix> jbq,  sure,  but it's kinda slow in here so why not?
Dec 12 15:18:35 <jbq> :)
Dec 12 15:19:38 <jbq> anyway, the chrome UI itself isn't really relevant on a phone. The scripting engine is x86-specific at this point and apparently quite memory-hungry, and the multi-process system is highly windows-specific.
Dec 12 15:19:42 <marix> jbq,  do you use chrome as your main browser?
Dec 12 15:19:53 <jbq> marix: I use MacOS, so, no :(
Dec 12 15:19:58 <jbq> firefox2 here.
Dec 12 15:19:59 <marix> ouch
Dec 12 15:20:07 <brocktice> If I can't use my Firefox plugins on it, I'm not using it.
Dec 12 15:20:51 <marix> i threw fennec on my sony ux,  its an early alpha,  but i see where they are going with it.
Dec 12 15:20:53 <offby1> worst thing about chrome -- no plugins
Dec 12 15:21:05 <joeyoh> offby1: supposedly that is changing
Dec 12 15:21:32 <brocktice> There's no way to add plugins to Browser on Android is there?
Dec 12 15:21:40 <jbq> marix: the guy who leads the fennec effort used to be a coworker, and then was my manger.
Dec 12 15:21:41 <offby1> heh, no
Dec 12 15:21:48 <brocktice> Something tells me they're not going to put ad blocking in the distribution, so I'm tempted to fork it...
Dec 12 15:22:03 <marix> jbq,  it looks like it has potential for sure.
Dec 12 15:22:03 <joeyoh> sounds good
Dec 12 15:22:25 <joeyoh> brocktice: if you get chromium working on mac or nix ur my hero :)
Dec 12 15:22:26 <Disconnect> does the browser have any capability for proxies?
Dec 12 15:22:28 <brocktice> K9web hehehe
Dec 12 15:22:28 <Disconnect> (eg over wifi)
Dec 12 15:22:44 <brocktice> joeyoh, They have chrome working on mac.
Dec 12 15:22:47 <brocktice> In  crossover
Dec 12 15:22:48 <Disconnect> joeyoh: someone had it working on osx with wine
Dec 12 15:22:49 <jbq> marix: yes. it's good to see multiple good open-source mobile browsers.
Dec 12 15:22:50 <brocktice> It blows, but it works
Dec 12 15:22:53 <blau-MikeDG> why the K9 name i dont get it
Dec 12 15:23:00 <djc> they also have it working on linux, I've heard
Dec 12 15:23:12 <djc> jbq: why not Fx3?
Dec 12 15:23:12 <brocktice> blau-MikeDG, I think it started as a pun, and it's becoming a sort of fork-family.
Dec 12 15:23:12 <joeyoh> heh well better than nothing. but i meant natively :)
Dec 12 15:23:37 <brocktice> the platform is android, "mutt" is a major unix mail program.
Dec 12 15:23:43 <blau-MikeDG> ah
Dec 12 15:23:45 <brocktice> K-9 is the "android mutt" from Dr.Who, apparently
Dec 12 15:23:53 <brocktice> That's where the icon comes from
Dec 12 15:23:56 <jbq> djc: firefox2 is compatible with more sites that I care about or need.
Dec 12 15:23:56 * Disconnect would have voted for 'aibo'
Dec 12 15:24:09 <marix> im running 3.1 beta 2,  its as stable as i can ask for and runs java stronger that a retarded gorilla.
Dec 12 15:24:10 <brocktice> Disconnect, aibo would have been good but I think it's trademarked or something :)
Dec 12 15:24:17 <Disconnect> jbq: the new ffx3 beta is -super- fast compared to b1
Dec 12 15:24:33 <Disconnect> brocktice: ..which is why google can't use it. so?
Dec 12 15:24:42 <brocktice> Plus I didn't pick the name.
Dec 12 15:25:55 <marix> i have this white elephant thing to do tomorrow night,  and the gift cant be more than 5 bucks, any recommendations?  should i just get some stupid snowman keychain junk?
Dec 12 15:26:01 <blau-MikeDG> a G1
Dec 12 15:26:15 <michaelnovakjr> dude $5
Dec 12 15:26:20 <marix> lol
Dec 12 15:26:27 <marix> roll of quarters!
Dec 12 15:26:34 <brocktice> marix, You can usually get some interesting bargain bin stuff
Dec 12 15:26:38 <brocktice> roll of quarters is $10
Dec 12 15:26:42 <michaelnovakjr> maybe a picture of a G1 on really nice $5 paper
Dec 12 15:26:48 <mmarker> 20.
Dec 12 15:26:58 <brocktice> mmarker, Maybe we use different rolls.
Dec 12 15:27:04 <marix> sock full of pennys?
Dec 12 15:27:30 <brocktice> I got a 3 stooges DVD from someone a few years ago
Dec 12 15:27:35 <brocktice> Actually a set of dvds
Dec 12 15:27:47 <brocktice> I think from a Walgreens bargain bin.
Dec 12 15:27:58 <marix> brocktice,  i'll give that a shot
Dec 12 15:28:27 <mmarker_> Candy. You cant go wrong with candy.
Dec 12 15:33:04 * blau-MikeDG ponders selling the udmb person ver of my apps
Dec 12 15:35:58 <michaelnovakjr> huh
Dec 12 15:35:59 <marix_chrome> does anyone have latency numbers for tmo's 3g connection?
Dec 12 15:36:27 <SanMehat> morning
Dec 12 15:37:27 <jbq> Hey SanMehat
Dec 12 15:37:35 <SanMehat> hey man
Dec 12 15:38:04 <jbq> How's life, the universe, and everythng?
Dec 12 15:38:56 <flaushy> tmo just announced the G1 in germany ^^
Dec 12 15:39:06 <vol> SanMeat
Dec 12 15:39:09 <flaushy> no prices, no date but it will come ...
Dec 12 15:39:47 <flaushy> marix_chrome: i only know them from german Eplus g3, if that is a help
Dec 12 15:41:16 <marix_chrome> flaushy,  its hard to find numbers on this stuff,  im guessing signal strength and tower location have a lot to do with it.  KC should be getting 3g on the 19th so i guess ill know for sure then..
Dec 12 15:41:37 <Disconnect> if you have a speedtest that includes latency i can test from silverspring/dc 3g
Dec 12 15:42:23 <BlindOracle> likely latency is all over the place. I doubt any test from a different location will have any relevance
Dec 12 15:42:50 <BlindOracle> even the destination site and time of day will cause latency to vary
Dec 12 15:43:31 <flaushy> yeah, mates used it as a ADSL replacement because no other broadband was available
Dec 12 15:43:31 <marix_chrome> disconnect,  could you just do a ping to googles server and see what it gives you?
Dec 12 15:43:32 <Disconnect> http://pastebin.ca/1283630
Dec 12 15:43:45 <flaushy> latency was going from 150 ms to 1000 ms
Dec 12 15:43:50 <flaushy> averageing at about 200
Dec 12 15:44:09 <marix_chrome> better than edge then :)
Dec 12 15:44:16 <flaushy> yeah
Dec 12 15:44:52 <flaushy> i think 200 - 300 was the major corridor
Dec 12 15:44:52 <flaushy> but irc didnt work well
Dec 12 15:44:56 <flaushy> many connection losses
Dec 12 15:46:49 <marix_chrome> this zingball game is horrid,  but it does show that the accelerometer is very quick and accurate.
Dec 12 15:48:01 <Disconnect> his mapping of the paddle to the image of the paddle, not so much :)
Dec 12 15:48:29 <marix_chrome> lol yea...
Dec 12 15:55:59 <DJTachyon> argh ..
Dec 12 15:56:20 <Disconnect> ?
Dec 12 15:56:24 <maxamillion> if i were to install a third part app from the app store and a newer version of the app comes out, will i have to manually pull the update or if i were to do a system wide update, will the phone check for those upgrades as well?
Dec 12 15:56:34 <Disconnect> manual
Dec 12 15:58:34 <DJTachyon> im waiting for the guy in IT to give me money for one of the 4-Pack of Left 4 Dead I bought
Dec 12 15:58:53 <maxamillion> Disconnect: thank you
Dec 12 15:59:13 <marix_chrome> djtachyon,  shouldn't have gave him the key till he gave you the money
Dec 12 15:59:21 <DJTachyon> I don't know what is preventing people from buying tons of these and making discrete sales to people at a 25$ discount
Dec 12 15:59:27 <DJTachyon> he doesnt have it yet ;)
Dec 12 15:59:36 <DJTachyon> i just want my money before i leave today
Dec 12 16:00:01 <DJTachyon> 25% discount rather
Dec 12 16:00:25 * DJTachyon is waiting for his first CafePress check ;)
Dec 12 16:01:30 <marix_chrome> djtachyon,  whats your store location?
Dec 12 16:01:34 <marix_chrome> or url rather
Dec 12 16:01:58 <DJTachyon> http://www.cafepress.com/djtachyon   http://www.cafepress.com/djtachyonqr   http://www.zazzle.com/djtachyon
Dec 12 16:02:03 <DJTachyon> pick one :P
Dec 12 16:02:27 <marix_chrome> android maternity shirt :(
Dec 12 16:02:33 <BlindOracle> http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08%2F12%2F12%2F149242
Dec 12 16:02:33 <DJTachyon> hehehe
Dec 12 16:02:52 <DJTachyon> yeah we have all read it
Dec 12 16:04:01 <Disconnect> yah thats old news. tmob has even had time to respond..
Dec 12 16:05:10 <jbq> slashdot is becoming like print magazines: by the time a story makes it there, everybody has heard about it somewhere else.
Dec 12 16:05:33 <loke_> jbq: to be fair, the article was on slashdot several days ago
Dec 12 16:05:54 <jbq> ah, ok. my point remains, though ;-)
Dec 12 16:06:03 <vol> you know what would be nice, in the gmail app?
Dec 12 16:06:10 <vol> the ability to change the order from oldest first to newest first
Dec 12 16:06:15 <vol> when you're viewing an email thread
Dec 12 16:06:21 <vol> so that I don't click a new response
Dec 12 16:06:25 <vol> and then scroll ALL the way down.
Dec 12 16:06:34 <vol> just seems like a nice option to set.
Dec 12 16:06:52 <marix_chrome> i dont liek how the gmail app has teh reply buttons at the bottom of the message and not in the menu.
Dec 12 16:07:11 <marix_chrome> if i hit menu i want all my options.
Dec 12 16:07:19 <michaelnovakjr_> marix_chrome: yes!
Dec 12 16:07:23 <michaelnovakjr_> i agree
Dec 12 16:07:32 <vol> yes!
Dec 12 16:07:34 <vol> that
Dec 12 16:07:36 <vol> that's annoying too
Dec 12 16:07:38 <marix_chrome> coming from a blackberry made me that way i think.
Dec 12 16:07:54 <Disconnect> how about the app manager constantly losing it's place in the list. thats today's annoyance :(
Dec 12 16:07:59 <vol> argh
Dec 12 16:07:59 <michaelnovakjr_> vol: scrolling to see buttons is bad
Dec 12 16:08:02 <vol> that's also annoying
Dec 12 16:08:20 <vol> I hate that it refreshes the list when I hit back
Dec 12 16:08:27 <vol> so if I select the wrong app, I et to wait another minute
Dec 12 16:08:28 <d0netsFN> hrmm
Dec 12 16:08:32 <marix_chrome> ive had poor luck with the search utility on the apps store... it seems very ignorant
Dec 12 16:08:36 <d0netsFN> nyts irc client has bnc functionality now
Dec 12 16:08:42 <d0netsFN> but it crashes when it starts loading chans
Dec 12 16:08:48 <d0netsFN> ill get him a log in a bit
Dec 12 16:13:11 <d0netsFN> http://androidirc.googlecode.com
Dec 12 16:13:42 <Disconnect> s/video/youtube/
Dec 12 16:15:13 <Disconnect> ooh. fun. just occurred to me. unless i'm missing something, there is no way (by default) to see how much space is in use. (and using app manager to see how much each app is using is suboptimal, between the list deficiencies and the lack of % display.)
Dec 12 16:15:40 <jbq> Isn't it in "data and SD card" or something like that?
Dec 12 16:16:27 <Disconnect> hmm it might be.
Dec 12 16:17:05 <Disconnect> yah it shows "18M available" but doesn't go anywhere from there except factory reset (seems excessive)
Dec 12 16:17:41 <jbq> yes, it's not very fine-grained (to say the least).
Dec 12 16:17:44 <DJTachyon> omg .. if you search for google android merchandise on google ..
Dec 12 16:17:49 <DJTachyon> haha
Dec 12 16:19:05 <blau-MikeDG> disc: you can chec
Dec 12 16:19:07 <Disconnect> "androiding"?
Dec 12 16:19:16 <DJTachyon> hmm?
Dec 12 16:19:22 <Disconnect> second link
Dec 12 16:19:59 <DJTachyon> my second link is "please don't android the merchandise"
Dec 12 16:20:03 <Disconnect> the article takes "a stretch" and builds a space elevator out of it.
Dec 12 16:20:06 <Disconnect> right. read that.
Dec 12 16:20:25 <DJTachyon> ohh lol
Dec 12 16:20:37 <DJTachyon> im more impressive with my website's placement ..
Dec 12 16:20:43 <DJTachyon> hey does anybody know a cheap hosting company with one click joomla setup?
Dec 12 16:21:33 <DJTachyon> i really need to transfer my site off of my home uplink
Dec 12 16:26:28 <michaelnovakjr_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/11/g1_roaming/
Dec 12 16:26:34 <snadge> hmm.. i really need to give up on trying to send/receive mms messages with g1
Dec 12 16:26:37 <DJTachyon> ugh .. we know
Dec 12 16:26:37 <michaelnovakjr_> developers need to be smart!
Dec 12 16:26:57 <michaelnovakjr_> or users not so naive that some developers actually know what they are doing?
Dec 12 16:26:59 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Dec 12 16:27:27 <snadge> i put my sim card in a friends htc tytn ii.. can send and receive mms messages fine.. my g1, no go.. nada.. zip.. some obscure error
Dec 12 16:27:37 <michaelnovakjr_> i receive mms
Dec 12 16:27:56 * Disconnect has sent ok
Dec 12 16:28:02 <Disconnect> and come to think of it i've received a couple too
Dec 12 16:28:05 <snadge> put my friends sim card in my phone.. different provider (three or hutchison).. put the mms settings in for that provider.. again, cant send or receive mms
Dec 12 16:28:09 <Disconnect> both were way back in the rc19 days
Dec 12 16:28:21 <michaelnovakjr_> i received one yesterday
Dec 12 16:28:42 <snadge> well i've only tried it on 2 australian networks so far
Dec 12 16:29:15 <snadge> optus, and three .. with the supposedly correct APN settings
Dec 12 16:29:27 <DJTachyon> Woooo http://www.lunarpages.com/ijoomla.php
Dec 12 16:29:30 <jbq> I suspect some differences in APN setup. It's very common for MMS to go through a different APN, but the G1 doesn't support that at the moment.
Dec 12 16:29:48 <snadge> thats possibly the problem then
Dec 12 16:30:12 <snadge> both optus and three assume you have a seperate apn for your internet and mms.. interestingly enough, internet works fine on either sim card.. no problems there
Dec 12 16:30:59 <DJTachyon> anybody have a recommendation for the most useful iJoomla extension
Dec 12 16:31:01 <jbq> If you change the APN setting to point to the MMS APN, it's possible that MMS would work but the rest of internet access wouldn't (or, worse, would be billed as MMS).
Dec 12 16:31:08 <snadge> i wonder if i can define the mms settings, and delete my internet apn.. will that work as a test? or does mms need gprs/internet to function
Dec 12 16:31:57 <snadge> if this works i'll get excited jbq :p
Dec 12 16:32:01 <Disconnect> jbq: hmm. tmob used to use 2 apns - is that changed?
Dec 12 16:32:15 <jbq> Disconnect: it changed for the G1.
Dec 12 16:32:23 <Disconnect> nice
Dec 12 16:32:27 <snadge> will the g1 be software updated to support this?
Dec 12 16:32:40 <Disconnect> snadge: thats what the dev phone are for :)
Dec 12 16:32:56 <xsdg> snadge: yes, but not currently, according to the roadmap
Dec 12 16:33:10 <snadge> i see.. doh.. i really should have bought a dev phone
Dec 12 16:33:35 <jbq> snadge: I don't know if T-Mobile US would want to see this added to their G1. It carries some risk that they might not want to take.
Dec 12 16:33:36 <snadge> as it stands, im having to use the rooted UK firmware, on my US g1 phone, in australia :P
Dec 12 16:33:37 <Disconnect> snadge: dev phones doesn't fix it. it just allows people to hack on the platform.
Dec 12 16:34:18 <Disconnect> snadge: if you are rooted just slap the eng bootloader on it (www.gotontheinter.net/bootloader) and you too can hack on MMS/APN interactions :)
Dec 12 16:34:23 <snadge> the US firmware worked fine.. i just kept getting repeatedly billed for "international sms" at 35c a pop.. every few minutes or so
Dec 12 16:34:34 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 16:34:47 <Disconnect> myfaves :(
Dec 12 16:35:19 <Disconnect> (seriously.. wtf is wrong with them that a billing-side app on a platform with OOB notifications has to poll every 5 mins to see if the billing settings are different??)
Dec 12 16:36:05 <michaelnovakjr_> Disconnect: i feel your pain
Dec 12 16:36:27 <michaelnovakjr_> i downloaded the lastfm scrobbler from the app store and it was a service constantly running from on boot
Dec 12 16:36:34 <michaelnovakjr_> i mean really what the hell is wrong with devs?
Dec 12 16:36:45 <Disconnect> anyone know if it does that on the usa-tmobile versions? or maybe it stops after it gets an answer..
Dec 12 16:37:31 <snadge> ok.. so i've deleted my internet APN, and now only have the APN for mms.. rebooting the phone just to be sure
Dec 12 16:38:51 <snadge> ok.. it comes up with just "G" now instead of 3G
Dec 12 16:38:58 <snadge> thats not cool?
Dec 12 16:40:52 <JesusFreke> G  = 1/3(3G)
Dec 12 16:40:54 <JesusFreke> :p
Dec 12 16:42:39 <BlindOracle> eclipse is a dependency nightmare
Dec 12 16:42:44 <xsdg> snadge: "welcome to internet-on-the-phone 1.0"
Dec 12 16:42:58 <xsdg> BlindOracle: you've got an extra word there: "dependency"
Dec 12 16:43:07 <BlindOracle> lol
Dec 12 16:43:42 <snadge> HOLY CRAP! i just got an mms
Dec 12 16:43:50 <snadge> in glorius 1G
Dec 12 16:43:53 <snadge> and no internet ;)
Dec 12 16:44:03 <xsdg> snadge: "G" is GPRS
Dec 12 16:44:14 <jbq> snadge: well, that confirmed my theory, at least :)
Dec 12 16:44:34 <snadge> err.. now its saying 3g.. this thing is nuts
Dec 12 16:45:38 <michaelnovakjr_> snadge: i thnk your messing with it too much
Dec 12 16:46:13 <BlindOracle> eclipse's install and update feature is complete garbage
Dec 12 16:47:25 <Foxdie> haven't received a mms yet
Dec 12 16:47:32 <snadge> it will be interesting to see what happens with my billing if i use data through my mms apn
Dec 12 16:47:58 <RyeBrye-phone> BlindOracle - exlipse is a big bag of crap
Dec 12 16:48:03 <BlindOracle> snadge: what network you have?
Dec 12 16:48:19 <xsdg> RyeBrye-phone: to quote romainguy: "false"
Dec 12 16:48:25 <xsdg> RyeBrye-phone: "they don't make bags that big"
Dec 12 16:48:36 <RyeBrye-phone> LOL :)
Dec 12 16:48:41 <snadge> BlindOracle: im not sure what you mean, im on Optus.. its a pre-paid account
Dec 12 16:49:19 <BlindOracle> snadge: I was curious since you're trying to configure the phone in a seemingly unsupported manner
Dec 12 16:49:47 <RyeBrye-phone> I am all about unsupported manners
Dec 12 16:49:52 <snadge> my provider tried to support me.. i'll give them credit for that
Dec 12 16:50:03 <BlindOracle> RyeBrye-phone: I can only confirm your statement - exclipse - back to emacs
Dec 12 16:50:18 <RyeBrye-phone> Intellij is heaven
Dec 12 16:50:21 <snadge> they even have settings for a htc dream, not on their website but a tech gave it to me.. and the instructions say to configure it with seperate internet/mms apn profiles
Dec 12 16:50:30 <BlindOracle> I was hoping it would make some things easier - been nothing but a complete waste of time
Dec 12 16:51:00 <snadge> not anywhere have i read that this configuration is unsupported on g1
Dec 12 16:51:26 <RyeBrye-phone> I spent 15 hours yesterday trying to get my work project to work for the new guy in eclipse
Dec 12 16:52:29 <snadge> i've noticed that the APN settings can combine mms and internet into the one definition... but if your provider gives you seperate apns for both, then basically my understanding is that g1 doesnt support how the majority of the world operates
Dec 12 16:53:40 <BlindOracle> RyeBrye-phone: I can't get the basic crap to even install with it. EVERYTHING complains about missing deps and those deps have missing deps and those deps have missing deps....complete POS!
Dec 12 16:53:49 <snadge> its not a big deal.. i mean, if thats the biggest problem i've had, using an unsupported phone in an unsupported country.. then im doing extremely well i think
Dec 12 16:54:17 <BlindOracle> They should just save everyone a bunch of time - when it starts it should simple say, "You're an idiot - use something that works. Uninstall now". It would be an improvement.
Dec 12 16:54:36 <an_dev> does anybody ever tried android:shadowColor?
Dec 12 16:54:50 <RyeBrye-phone> BlindOracle - i have had that problem before - caused by adobe flex builder being installed - i had to uninstall flex builder, do all my installs / updates - then reinstall flex builder
Dec 12 16:54:59 <xsdg> an_dev: if you have a question about it, you should ask that question
Dec 12 16:55:13 <BlindOracle> lol...did you have to kill a chicken under a full moon too? ;)
Dec 12 16:55:15 <xsdg> an_dev: asking if someone's used it often isn't helpful
Dec 12 16:55:19 <RyeBrye-phone> Pretty much
Dec 12 16:55:44 <an_dev> xsdg: i don't know how to use it and what kind of effect it gives?
Dec 12 16:55:49 <RyeBrye-phone> any news from that sprint dev conference yet?
Dec 12 16:56:03 <BlindOracle> well...at least I get to go fly today...that always calms me
Dec 12 16:56:44 <snadge> ok.. internet doesnt work through my mms definition, that could be expected i suppose
Dec 12 16:56:54 <RyeBrye-phone> I am adding "uses intellij as official dev platform" to my list of reqs for the next time i change jobs
Dec 12 16:57:23 <snadge> can someone send me an mms.. to at least test that i can receive one? :P
Dec 12 16:57:33 <Dougie187> How often do you change jobs?
Dec 12 16:58:00 <RyeBrye-phone> every year or two
Dec 12 16:58:11 <RyeBrye-phone> or whenever the startup I am at fails
Dec 12 16:58:20 <Dougie187> sounds like a stable environment.
Dec 12 16:58:33 <xsdg> RyeBrye-phone: that's probably not such a good idea.  There are places that don't use Eclipse, but use something that doesn't suck that isn't Intellij
Dec 12 16:59:04 <RyeBrye-phone> xsdg - ok, good point... just " not eclipse "
Dec 12 16:59:47 <anno^da_> jbq: Do you know something about that problem with the ArrayAdapter? http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/aa4379f27c12316d#
Dec 12 16:59:51 * BlindOracle just uninstall eclipse
Dec 12 17:00:02 <jbq> anno^da_: nope, never used one of those, sorry.
Dec 12 17:00:13 <michaelnovakjr_> why
Dec 12 17:00:17 <anno^da_> Ok no problem.
Dec 12 17:00:39 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr_: I used the ArrayAdapter in my last release with 5 items
Dec 12 17:00:53 <anno^da_> now I have added one item in the following release
Dec 12 17:01:08 <anno^da_> and if the users install the new release they get a fore close
Dec 12 17:01:25 <anno^da_> After uninstalling and reinstalling everything is fine.
Dec 12 17:01:46 <wastrel> is it possible to download web pages for offline viewing?
Dec 12 17:01:50 <xsdg> an_dev: likely related: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/R.attr.html#shadowColor
Dec 12 17:01:55 <anno^da_> In the logcat I can see an IndexArray out of bounds :(
Dec 12 17:02:01 <xsdg> wastrel: not right now, no
Dec 12 17:02:43 <xsdg> an_dev: what is the Adapter connected to?
Dec 12 17:02:57 <xsdg> an_dev: I would imagine that your data isn't getting updated
Dec 12 17:04:19 <snadge> the g1 just picks the first APN in the list that it can get data access through?
Dec 12 17:04:29 <BlindOracle> HEY! My phone just arrived!
Dec 12 17:05:06 <kirberich> BlindOracle, rub it in... ;)
Dec 12 17:05:24 <BlindOracle> kirberich: glady ;)
Dec 12 17:05:39 <kirberich> i thought mine would arrive today
Dec 12 17:05:46 <d0netsFN> hey does anyone know the person making the toggle apps?
Dec 12 17:05:49 <kirberich> it's about 10 miles from here
Dec 12 17:05:52 <d0netsFN> is it possible to have the icon change
Dec 12 17:06:07 <d0netsFN> kinda like the iphone apps
Dec 12 17:06:10 <d0netsFN> like insomnia and stuff
Dec 12 17:06:19 <d0netsFN> when its on the icon says on, when its off, it says off
Dec 12 17:08:28 <brocktice_workin> BlindOracle, I thought it didn't even ship?
Dec 12 17:08:53 <brocktice> I keep checking the windows for the FedEx truck
Dec 12 17:09:11 <d0netsFN> what you waitin on?
Dec 12 17:09:37 <RyeBrye-phone> yeah, good question - can an app icon change depending upon its state?
Dec 12 17:09:54 <d0netsFN> it seams since i dont the hacked rc30, my wifi wont work
Dec 12 17:09:59 <jbq> RyeBrye-phone: not at the moment.
Dec 12 17:10:01 <d0netsFN> i cant ssh in now
Dec 12 17:10:05 <d0netsFN> i mean telnet
Dec 12 17:10:16 <brocktice> d0netsFN, O_o
Dec 12 17:10:29 <d0netsFN> done*
Dec 12 17:10:32 <BlindOracle> phone is booting...
Dec 12 17:10:56 <d0netsFN> it says obtaining address, but then fails
Dec 12 17:11:14 <brocktice> d0netsFN, You sure the wifi's working?
Dec 12 17:11:21 <brocktice> I know it seems dumb but I had to ask.
Dec 12 17:11:33 <brocktice> Sometimes my router gets wonky about assigning IPs.
Dec 12 17:13:12 <d0netsFN> yea im gonna reset it
Dec 12 17:13:13 <d0netsFN> brb
Dec 12 17:13:15 <dcordes> is there an on screen keyboard app?
Dec 12 17:13:25 <RyeBrye-phone> dcordes - see roadmap
Dec 12 17:13:25 <Disconnect> sorta
Dec 12 17:13:36 <dcordes> Disconnect, where?
Dec 12 17:13:38 <Disconnect> anykey lets you type onscreen and use cut&paste to use it
Dec 12 17:13:42 <dcordes> RyeBrye-phone, which?
Dec 12 17:13:51 <snadge> when will g1 get support for seperate MMS and Internet APNs?
Dec 12 17:14:03 <snadge> or is this unlikely to happen any time soon
Dec 12 17:14:07 <Disconnect> snadge: when the community fixes it. or when google fixes it. is it on the roadmap? if not your best bet is community.
Dec 12 17:14:09 <michaelnovakjr_> what do you mean separate mms?
Dec 12 17:14:24 <BlindOracle> is there a way to get past the google account creation crap?
Dec 12 17:14:30 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr_: tmob (used to) and others (still do) use 1 apn for internet, 1 for mms
Dec 12 17:14:33 <snadge> i mean.. i can have either internet, or mms.. not both
Dec 12 17:14:34 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: yep
Dec 12 17:14:42 <BlindOracle> ?
Dec 12 17:14:46 <RyeBrye-phone> snadge... G1 is officially Tmo only... so unless tmo needs it I suppose never? maybe in android or on the adp1?
Dec 12 17:14:48 <brocktice> Disconnect, ORLY?
Dec 12 17:14:50 <Disconnect> BlindOracle: don't have the url handy tho.
Dec 12 17:14:54 <snadge> this problem is also unique to the G1.. every other phone in the universe has no problems with this
Dec 12 17:15:10 <BlindOracle> will the battery charge via USB connection to computer?
Dec 12 17:15:11 <dcordes> RyeBrye-phone, which roadmap?
Dec 12 17:15:14 <brocktice> BlindOracle, yes
Dec 12 17:15:20 <jbq> I expect that Android will need to support multiple APNs very soon. Whether that ripples to the G1 is mostly up to the individual T-Mobile properties that sell it.
Dec 12 17:15:20 <wastrel> hi hi
Dec 12 17:15:20 <brocktice> As long as the port is powered
Dec 12 17:15:26 <wastrel> what's APN?
Dec 12 17:15:36 <michaelnovakjr_> dcordes: Android roadmap
Dec 12 17:15:37 <BlindOracle> any difference in charging behavior between charger and USB?
Dec 12 17:15:41 <snadge> this problem also affects legitimate american/uk t-mobile customers.. who have unlocked their phone, and travel to a non t-mobile country on roaming.. they will not be able to use mms
Dec 12 17:15:43 <RyeBrye-phone> dcordes google android roadmap imf and you should see it
Dec 12 17:15:47 <brocktice> BlindOracle, USB could take longer.
Dec 12 17:15:55 <BlindOracle> brocktice: deep charge?
Dec 12 17:15:57 <brocktice> It does on, say ipods. Not sure about the amperages for the G1.
Dec 12 17:16:21 <brocktice> what's a deep charge?
Dec 12 17:16:39 <dcordes> Disconnect, I google'D android anykey, can't find it. can you provide a url?
Dec 12 17:16:49 <Disconnect> marketplace
Dec 12 17:17:19 <wastrel> it's called anycut
Dec 12 17:17:24 <Disconnect> wastrel: no, no its not.
Dec 12 17:17:40 <wastrel> well there's an anycut anyway
Dec 12 17:17:43 <Disconnect> snadge: legit customers need to call their tmob and complain. that'll help set a fire.
Dec 12 17:17:45 <Disconnect> wastrel: ..so?
Dec 12 17:17:58 <wastrel> so you're grumpy today
Dec 12 17:18:00 <BlindOracle> brocktice: deep charge/cycle usually charges a battery better than a fast charge. lipos have changed that somewhat, but still apply
Dec 12 17:18:06 <snadge> Disconnect: i bought a t-mobile prepaid sim when i was in the USA.. does that make me a legit customer? :P
Dec 12 17:18:09 <RyeBrye-phone> run the battery down until the phone shuts off... then plug it in and let it charge for a long long time
Dec 12 17:18:16 * brocktice is newly educated on batteries
Dec 12 17:18:46 <wastrel> batteries are important
Dec 12 17:18:54 <brocktice> With Lithium ion i usually just charge it till it's full and then top it off as frequently as possible
Dec 12 17:18:54 <RyeBrye-phone> this voodoo is supposed to help calibrate the battery
Dec 12 17:18:56 <BlindOracle> with nicads and whatnot, it can mean a 50% charge difference...with lipos, depending on the charge circuit, if it makes a difference, maybe 10%-15% difference
Dec 12 17:19:02 <brocktice> Oh, well, there's the calibration yeah.
Dec 12 17:19:12 <dcordes> Disconnect, downer, I have no marketplace.
Dec 12 17:19:22 <Disconnect> ..?
Dec 12 17:19:23 <brocktice> Just use the G1 normally for like 3 hours, that'll drain the battery to zero :p
Dec 12 17:19:40 <snadge> i can just imagine a whole heap of UK and USA t-mobile customers.. who go on vacation, getting super pissed off when their brand new G1 has connectivity problems in other countries
Dec 12 17:19:59 <brocktice> snadge, The prospect of using my G1 outside of the states frightens me.
Dec 12 17:20:02 <RyeBrye-phone> but... it would only affect mms?
Dec 12 17:20:05 <brocktice> I have two unlocked GSM phones for travel.
Dec 12 17:20:06 <snadge> i suppose they may be stupid enough to go on roaming, instead of unlocking their phone and buying a prepaid sim from a local provider
Dec 12 17:20:07 <dcordes> Disconnect, I wanna put it in the htc images we use. but it sounds shity anyway with the copy paste. I'll just wait for the roadmap
Dec 12 17:20:34 <RyeBrye-phone> dcordes - which htc images?
Dec 12 17:20:38 <brocktice> Unfortunately the Dream is pretty tied to the data plan.
Dec 12 17:21:05 <snadge> the data works fine.. its the seperate mms and data apns thats the issue
Dec 12 17:21:08 <dcordes> RyeBrye-phone, for the vogue kaiser raphael diamond xperia balbal
Dec 12 17:21:10 <dcordes> bla
Dec 12 17:21:16 <RyeBrye-phone> oh, ok
Dec 12 17:21:16 <dcordes> blackstone
Dec 12 17:21:22 <brocktice> I can live without MMS.
Dec 12 17:21:28 <brocktice> But it should be fixed, I agree.
Dec 12 17:21:43 <RyeBrye-phone> the 5 mms es I have recieved in my life have been great
Dec 12 17:21:49 <snadge> heres the kicker.. if you define your mms apn BEFORE the internet one.. then you get no internet
Dec 12 17:22:18 <snadge> because it thinks it can get data through the mms apn, but it actually cant.. it can only send mms (duh) ;)
Dec 12 17:23:04 <brocktice> RyeBrye-phone, Were they postage-sized videos of dubious quality?
Dec 12 17:23:15 <snadge> i might have better luck asking my provider to enable mms on the internet apn.. after all, thats what t-mobile did
Dec 12 17:23:27 <RyeBrye-phone> no... blurry camera shots
Dec 12 17:23:32 <brocktice> ah
Dec 12 17:23:47 <brocktice> sorry that should have been postage-stamp-sized videos
Dec 12 17:23:58 <snadge> i really dont see how that could cause a problem either, if they left the old apn as well.. its probably nowhere near that simple
Dec 12 17:24:23 <snadge> i just dont see why the internet apn, cant provide mms as well.. just so people like me, who have a g1.. can do both :P
Dec 12 17:24:42 <RyeBrye-phone> the world would explode
Dec 12 17:25:22 <snadge> if i load the open source android platform.. then i lose google maps, and 99% of my phones functionality yeah?
Dec 12 17:25:32 <snadge> like all the cool bits
Dec 12 17:25:42 <Disconnect> whats 99%?
Dec 12 17:25:50 <michaelnovakjr_> is mms really that important?
Dec 12 17:25:56 <jbq> snadge: that's usually because data usage and charging is done at the APN level, and users wouldn't want to be charged by the byte for their MMS.
Dec 12 17:26:00 <anno^da_> jbq: perhaps you know this one: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/b50e2cdec16c2fc2 :)
Dec 12 17:26:10 <jbq> anno^da_: nope.
Dec 12 17:26:12 <Disconnect> gmail, maps, amazon mp3, marketplace.
Dec 12 17:26:15 <Disconnect> i think thats it
Dec 12 17:26:34 <snadge> can you add warez versions of those into the open source ver? :P
Dec 12 17:27:05 <dcordes> why do providers put $$ in mobile internet when the customer would want shity mms?
Dec 12 17:27:44 <snadge> its not that i really desperately want mms.. its just one more thing i can pay out people who own iphones about
Dec 12 17:28:06 <snadge> plus, some people have older phones that support mms.. but not internet.. its convenient way to show something amusing, interesting or whatever
Dec 12 17:28:18 <vol> speaking of mms
Dec 12 17:28:26 <vol> what's the deal with the G1 plan and MMS
Dec 12 17:28:34 <michaelnovakjr_> snadge: that's a lot of work and worrying for a silly reason :)
Dec 12 17:28:35 <vol> do they charge extra for mms, or does it count as 10 sms or what
Dec 12 17:28:45 <dcordes> snadge, thsoe people suck. why would you want to text them?
Dec 12 17:28:49 <Disconnect> vol: it counds as a single sms
Dec 12 17:28:55 <Disconnect> ..just like an aim message :(
Dec 12 17:29:06 <dcordes> make them leave countryside and buy expensive 3g phones
Dec 12 17:29:07 <vol> haha what
Dec 12 17:29:14 <vol> AIM counts against sms?
Dec 12 17:29:17 <Disconnect> yep
Dec 12 17:29:18 <michaelnovakjr_> yes
Dec 12 17:29:18 <vol> fuck am I glad I didn't enable AIM
Dec 12 17:29:22 <Disconnect> where have you been?
Dec 12 17:29:30 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Dec 12 17:29:31 <vol> obviously not on AIM
Dec 12 17:29:33 <snadge> can the non open source apps be added to an open source build?
Dec 12 17:29:36 <jbq> lol
Dec 12 17:29:49 <vol> snadge: that's a little tricky.
Dec 12 17:30:43 <snadge> i just dont think that its entirely fair that to customise android.. you have to give up the non open source features that are actually quite cool
Dec 12 17:30:43 <vol> generally, you can link against shared libs, as long as you only make calls, and not actually include any code
Dec 12 17:30:43 <vol> so, it's ok for your non-gpl app to link against libc
Dec 12 17:30:43 <Disconnect> snadge: in theory, eventually, yes.
Dec 12 17:30:59 <Disconnect> word from teh goog is that the image on the adp1 will be available for reflashing. and it comes with that.
Dec 12 17:31:01 <vol> oh, I see what you mean, nm : (
Dec 12 17:31:01 <Disconnect> so...
Dec 12 17:31:16 <michaelnovakjr_> snadge: patience
Dec 12 17:31:29 <snadge> adp1 is the dev phone right?
Dec 12 17:31:36 <Disconnect> (well it comes with market, gmail, youtube)
Dec 12 17:31:41 <michaelnovakjr_> you aren't going to get iPhone users to say the G1 is cooler because of mms :)
Dec 12 17:31:47 <Disconnect> jf's writeup (http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/12) has info
Dec 12 17:32:01 <snadge> michaelnovakjr_: its just one more thing.. like the lack of a physical keyboard etc
Dec 12 17:32:15 <snadge> "at least my phone can send and receive mms messages" :p
Dec 12 17:32:29 <michaelnovakjr_> haha, i don't really see that as a big deal :) but ok
Dec 12 17:32:32 <Disconnect> "at least the iphone can change apps in under 30 seconds".. ooh burn
Dec 12 17:32:32 <snadge> to which the retort is something like.. "thats so 90s"
Dec 12 17:33:17 <snadge> and the winmo users just laugh.. and say, at least i can terminate applications
Dec 12 17:33:48 <vol> and the android users say "at least I don't need to"
Dec 12 17:34:12 <dcordes> dev phone doesn't have pony
Dec 12 17:34:27 <snadge> i really dont like that though.. i like to dictate when programs can and cant operate.. not being able to quit from a program is so frustrating for me.. even if i dont technically need to.. i want to
Dec 12 17:34:28 <d0netsFN> yea i still cant connect to wifi
Dec 12 17:34:31 <Disconnect> vol: weren't you around this morning? autostart apps can drag it to a halt right after reboot
Dec 12 17:34:43 <vol> Disconnect: again, obviously not : (
Dec 12 17:34:48 <Disconnect> vol: thats why i've had such trouble with home being closed, every time i use the brower.
Dec 12 17:34:50 <michaelnovakjr_> yea, well my iPhone is the same one as the iPhone in those really neat hippy like commercials
Dec 12 17:34:50 <Disconnect> brower
Dec 12 17:34:54 <Disconnect> damnit. browSer
Dec 12 17:35:09 <snadge> i've logged into my phone with an adb shell and used ps and kill.. just because i could
Dec 12 17:35:19 <michaelnovakjr_> haha, wow
Dec 12 17:36:58 <snadge> as soon as i can flash the dev image over the top of my g1.. im doing it :P
Dec 12 17:37:21 <Disconnect> snadge: ...its basically identical to the uk version
Dec 12 17:37:34 <Disconnect> with the engineering bootloader (www.gotontheinter.net/bootloader)
Dec 12 17:37:54 <Disconnect> a birdie tells me someone has an image for it ready to go. in fact.. lemme see where thats at.
Dec 12 17:37:59 <michaelnovakjr_> snadge: i'm going to do it to run kill on apps im not using because i can :)
Dec 12 17:38:35 <brocktice> Disconnect, yes that is something I'd love to know.
Dec 12 17:38:42 <brocktice> What's different between the US and UK versions?
Dec 12 17:38:56 <snadge> UK doesnt have myfaves.. possibly a few other things
Dec 12 17:39:07 <brocktice> Ah, but you still get the dumb SMSes
Dec 12 17:39:09 <RyeBrye-phone> I use myfaves on my plan, so i actually do use that ap
Dec 12 17:39:15 <brocktice> "Your myfaves have been updated!"
Dec 12 17:39:28 <brocktice> At least that's how it has been on my other non-tmobile firmwares.
Dec 12 17:39:44 * Disconnect has no myfaves and no need
Dec 12 17:39:49 <snadge> someone told me it didnt have the voice dialler.. that doesnt seem right
Dec 12 17:40:05 <marix_chrome> disconnect,  i'll be your myfave.
Dec 12 17:40:16 <brocktice> Is there any reason one can't adb pull stuff off of a G1 and install it onto the ADP1?
Dec 12 17:40:28 <RyeBrye-phone> oh, i did hear that about the voice dialer
Dec 12 17:40:30 <Disconnect> no need. we get 400 minutes or so a month, but free to tmob, free nights, free weekends.. its an old old plan :)
Dec 12 17:40:46 <meyou> so are there any upcoming NES/SNES emus for android? :o
Dec 12 17:40:48 <Disconnect> its rare we go over 200 minutes of  'normal time' combined..
Dec 12 17:41:28 <RyeBrye-phone> yeah. I had that kind of thing going for me till all my family switched off of tmobile
Dec 12 17:41:57 <Disconnect> oh and i think we've still got free incoming too
Dec 12 17:42:15 <RyeBrye-phone> free incoming? that must be an old plan
Dec 12 17:42:15 <marix_chrome> anyone have a qr code generator that does contacts?
Dec 12 17:42:19 <snadge> everyone in australia gets free incoming.. on any provider
Dec 12 17:42:32 <snadge> i nearly shat a brick when i found out you had to pay to RECEIVE calls in the usa
Dec 12 17:42:40 <brocktice> marix_chrome, http://www.qrstuff.com/
Dec 12 17:42:41 <brocktice> BUT
Dec 12 17:42:46 <Disconnect> snadge: we don't pay to call a cell from a landline, either.
Dec 12 17:42:51 <RyeBrye-phone> snadge - yeah, only on cell phones
Dec 12 17:42:53 <brocktice> you can just put the vcard text in there and it'll work fine
Dec 12 17:43:03 <Disconnect> and its illegal to make any unsolicited calls to a cell #
Dec 12 17:43:06 <brocktice> it didn't seem to like images though
Dec 12 17:43:32 <snadge> if you call a cell from a landline in australia.. fair enough, you get stung, but its only the caller that gets stung.. not the receiver
Dec 12 17:43:39 <Disconnect> marix_chrome: istr nokia's does
Dec 12 17:44:10 <Disconnect> snadge: i can say "here is my number, call me when {foo} is done." not "here is my cell number, and here's $2 to call me with, and please call when {foo} is done"
Dec 12 17:44:14 <snadge> its actually cheaper in aus, to call mobile to mobile.. and mobile to landline.. than it is landline to mobile
Dec 12 17:44:15 <RyeBrye-phone> That sprint dev conference is today, is it not?
Dec 12 17:45:06 <snadge> so thats why we have pranking, and sms messages.. i'll ring your phone twice.. then come out the front and pick me up, or whatever
Dec 12 17:45:50 <snadge> anyone who calls a cell from a landline is a moron :P .. you use your cell to do it, or only do it as a last resort.. or if you're made of money and dont care
Dec 12 17:46:20 <d0netsFN> ok my phones havin crazy problems
Dec 12 17:46:29 <Disconnect> ..right. in the usa, you can do what you like. none of this "2 rings if by sea, 3 rings if by land" crap
Dec 12 17:46:36 <d0netsFN> my terminal emu wont run
Dec 12 17:46:36 <Disconnect> that went out with the payphone
Dec 12 17:46:40 <d0netsFN> it flashes then closes
Dec 12 17:46:43 <d0netsFN> no errors or anything
Dec 12 17:46:50 <Disconnect> and fyi i'm getting that image, i'll publish it soon.
Dec 12 17:46:53 <snadge> i just dont like the idea of paying to talk to people who have CALLED ME
Dec 12 17:46:57 <Disconnect> got a meeting and some such to do today
Dec 12 17:47:04 <michaelnovakjr_> Disconnect: which image? the dev image?
Dec 12 17:47:07 <Disconnect> yah
Dec 12 17:47:16 <snadge> i'd be like "fsck off.. this is costing me money, i dont want to talk to you" ;)
Dec 12 17:47:19 <michaelnovakjr_> rc30 won't work with it though correct?
Dec 12 17:47:35 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr_: huh?
Dec 12 17:47:40 <michaelnovakjr_> let me rephrase
Dec 12 17:47:43 <Disconnect> no. its not a root for rc30.
Dec 12 17:48:00 <michaelnovakjr_> you can't get a dev image on your G1 if you have rc30 correct?
Dec 12 17:48:12 <d0netsFN> disconnect i did this
Dec 12 17:48:12 * Disconnect has rc30. but he was smart and has jf's rc30. :)
Dec 12 17:48:12 <d0netsFN> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Dec 12 17:48:19 <michaelnovakjr_> :)
Dec 12 17:48:26 <d0netsFN> and it seems like my wifi isnt working now
Dec 12 17:48:29 <d0netsFN> and other strange problems
Dec 12 17:48:37 <snadge> i'm even smarter and using TC5 RC8 instead of jf's rc30
Dec 12 17:48:42 <Disconnect> heh
Dec 12 17:49:31 <snadge> but if i was even smarter still.. i would've bought an iphone :P
Dec 12 17:49:49 <RyeBrye-phone> iphones have no mms at all
Dec 12 17:49:57 <RyeBrye-phone> so you would still be bitching
Dec 12 17:50:00 <snadge> at least i wouldn't be upset about it not working
Dec 12 17:50:07 <brocktice> RyeBrye-phone, still?
Dec 12 17:50:08 <snadge> i'd just be forced to accept it.. like a lame apple user
Dec 12 17:50:41 <brocktice> I understand it's kind of pointless when you have email, but you'd think they'd still implement it.
Dec 12 17:50:57 <d0netsFN> yea my terminal emulator wont run and i cant connect to wifi networks
Dec 12 17:51:02 <d0netsFN> wtf do i do now
Dec 12 17:51:04 <snadge> they avoided the problem that android has
Dec 12 17:51:18 <snadge> by just completely ignoring mms.. it solves the whole split apn problem
Dec 12 17:51:21 <Disconnect> reflash. prolly a corrupted zip.
Dec 12 17:51:41 <snadge> and then it becomes as simple as configuring "internet" .. any moron and any phone on any network can do that ;)
Dec 12 17:52:00 <snadge> hell.. even the g1 has no problems with it
Dec 12 17:52:11 <d0netsFN> but disconnect how do i change out the files
Dec 12 17:52:39 <d0netsFN> i can get them onto my sd card but i cant run terminal emu
Dec 12 17:52:57 <snadge> is there an sshd for android? :P
Dec 12 17:52:59 <Disconnect> you don't need the terminal
Dec 12 17:53:03 <Disconnect> snadge: yes
Dec 12 17:53:15 <orospakr> what the crap?  The ADP1 software build's IM app only supports GTalk, nothing else?
Dec 12 17:53:17 <orospakr> how did that happen?
Dec 12 17:53:39 <Disconnect> orospakr: um. it was clear before the thing shipped. the other ones are written by tmob.
Dec 12 17:53:43 <brocktice> Hellloooo FedEx
Dec 12 17:54:03 <Disconnect> so it supports the same ones the uk image does - gtalk.
Dec 12 17:54:35 <orospakr> *sigh*  I wonder if anyone in the community's started writing providers.  I might want to get in on that action.
Dec 12 17:54:58 <snadge> Disconnect: im using JF's UK image.. i think he has added live/yahoo/aim.. as well as the voice dialer
Dec 12 17:55:34 <snadge> because i still have them.. and the about phone says its TC5 RC8
Dec 12 17:55:40 <orospakr> well, that means the non-gtalk providers by tmo are non-free, which means they need replacing regardless.
Dec 12 17:56:31 <brocktice> ooh the keyboard backing is all shiny
Dec 12 17:57:34 <d0netsFN> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root
Dec 12 17:57:35 <d0netsFN> disconnect
Dec 12 17:57:43 <d0netsFN> if i download the androidmod.xxx to my pc and renamed
Dec 12 17:57:46 <d0netsFN> could that corrupt it?
Dec 12 17:57:56 <d0netsFN> i had to because the other link is down
Dec 12 18:00:42 <snadge> im looking forward to trying out the ADP1 build.. and any progress thats made with that and split APNs ;)
Dec 12 18:01:06 <Disconnect> its basically identical to whats out there now. the progress is something you can do by going to source.android.com and getting the platform source.
Dec 12 18:01:31 <ttuttle> What are split APNs?
Dec 12 18:01:52 <snadge> the ability to have a seperate APN for MMS messaging and Internet
Dec 12 18:02:09 <snadge> and still be able to use both at the same time.. rather than the current situation of one or the other
Dec 12 18:02:36 <ttuttle> snadge: Ah.
Dec 12 18:02:41 <snadge> it would seem most phones (all except g1) allow you to have multiple definitions
Dec 12 18:02:43 <ttuttle> snadge: Most regular phones can do that, right?
Dec 12 18:03:55 <snadge> im not sure how exactly they do that.. as its obviously not a simple problem
Dec 12 18:04:20 <ttuttle> I'm not sure how a phone selects an APN.  If it's just a tag on the outgoing packets, that's not too hard.  If it's a separate radio connection, then it's sorta nuts.
Dec 12 18:04:31 <ttuttle> snadge: Also, remember that "regular" phones often don't do MMS and internet at the same time.
Dec 12 18:04:38 <ttuttle> snadge: They may just switch when they need to send or receive an MMS.
Dec 12 18:05:07 <snadge> right.. and thats exactly what i need to do, except manually
Dec 12 18:05:20 <snadge> and i also dont have psychic powers to predict when somebody is going to send me an mms ;)
Dec 12 18:05:30 <brocktice> su does indeed work on the ADP1
Dec 12 18:05:50 <Disconnect> brocktice: jf already established that in his article
Dec 12 18:06:07 <brocktice> Disconnect, Where's his article?
Dec 12 18:06:13 <Disconnect> www.gotontheinter.net/node/12
Dec 12 18:06:15 <ttuttle> snadge: Um, I don't think it requires a data connection to know there's one coming in.  I think there's an out-of-band notification (I'm not sure, though).
Dec 12 18:06:20 <brocktice> I knew it had been established, I was just sort of... echoing it?
Dec 12 18:06:39 <Disconnect> ttuttle: its an sms
Dec 12 18:06:48 <Disconnect> with a url
Dec 12 18:06:50 <ttuttle> Disconnect: Ah.
Dec 12 18:07:01 <d0netsFN> disconnect how to i get root then
Dec 12 18:07:02 <Disconnect> (or so i was told. haven't checked the source. but the mms app is open, so..)
Dec 12 18:07:04 <snadge> ttuttle: well.. i can receive an mms message if i delete my internet apn.. but if i try to view an mms someone sent me earlier, when i wasnt configured that way.. it says download error
Dec 12 18:07:06 <d0netsFN> without term emu
Dec 12 18:07:24 <ttuttle> snadge: Yeah, so it just needs to know to switch APN to the MMS one when it's doing MMS.
Dec 12 18:07:56 <snadge> i guess the question is.. why does a non g1 phone know how to do that
Dec 12 18:08:28 <snadge> it should switch apn, to whatever apn the mmsc is defined for
Dec 12 18:08:41 <snadge> and then switch back to the internet one, when its finished
Dec 12 18:08:47 <Disconnect> snadge: seriously. the mms app is open source. you've already established that its broken, how it is broken (one apn) and why (tmob thought it was easier to fix their apn than to write the code). what else do you want ..??
Dec 12 18:08:54 <michaelnovakjr_> haha
Dec 12 18:08:59 <michaelnovakjr_> still going on about mms
Dec 12 18:09:07 <michaelnovakjr_> give it a rest! :)
Dec 12 18:09:23 <snadge> i know a hell of a lot more about it now than i did before.. but still not enough to actually fix it myself :P
Dec 12 18:10:40 * orospakr is trying to find the source of the Gtalk IM provider in the tree
Dec 12 18:10:40 <Disconnect> adp1 image, in update.zip format, signed with test keys. http://www.gotontheinter.net/13
Dec 12 18:10:55 <michaelnovakjr_> orospakr: i don't think that's open source
Dec 12 18:10:56 <orospakr> I figure that's a good place to start if I want to write one for another protocol.
Dec 12 18:10:59 <Disconnect> orospakr: not sure its open either. i think just the im framework is
Dec 12 18:11:00 <orospakr> ... ugh.
Dec 12 18:11:12 <michaelnovakjr_> the IM app isn't completely open source
Dec 12 18:11:16 <Disconnect> but its on the adp1 and uk g1 cuz teh goog wrote it
Dec 12 18:11:16 * orospakr smacks Google with a large trout.
Dec 12 18:11:20 <Disconnect> michaelnovakjr_: s/completely// :)
Dec 12 18:11:36 <Disconnect> since, realistically, if it doesn't even come with a single protocol its hardly an IM app
Dec 12 18:11:53 <michaelnovakjr_> well it is, you just don't get the source :)
Dec 12 18:11:54 <orospakr> it's kind of like telepathy in that it has a single frontend used by all the protocols.
Dec 12 18:12:01 <michaelnovakjr_> you can view the UI source
Dec 12 18:12:04 <orospakr> jeeze, you think the gtalk part would be free software.
Dec 12 18:12:16 <orospakr> yeah, I just want to write my own provider for it.
Dec 12 18:12:29 <michaelnovakjr_> but one exists already :)
Dec 12 18:14:35 <Disconnect> orospakr: the gtalk one uses their non-xml proprietary protocol
Dec 12 18:14:45 <orospakr> Figured as much.
Dec 12 18:14:57 <Disconnect> sorry. www.gotontheinter.net/node/13 is the correct link for the adp1 update.zip
Dec 12 18:15:02 <orospakr> well, I was hoping to be able to read the source of an existing provider to help me get started.
Dec 12 18:18:32 <blau-MikeDG> ugh to the new gizmodo, consumerist, lifehacker look
Dec 12 18:20:20 <orospakr> there seems to be two modules, ImProvider and IM.
Dec 12 18:20:28 <orospakr> ImProvider might be a base class?
Dec 12 18:32:07 <brocktice> Disconnect, what's the replacement for adb remount on the ADP1 image?
Dec 12 18:32:17 <brocktice> I'm trying to compile the kernel modules for tethering
Dec 12 18:36:15 <JesusFreke> brock, just type su to get root access, then use the usual mount -orw,remount... command
Dec 12 18:36:37 <brocktice> JesusFreke, Ah, and do you guys know how to get proper ncurses for make menuconfig on the mac?
Dec 12 18:36:44 <brocktice> I've got installed but make menuconfig can't find it.
Dec 12 18:36:51 <bherrmann> tmob was supposed to call me today between 8am-12pm to get my non activating gphone going... alas the phone, she does not ring
Dec 12 18:36:53 <JesusFreke> no clue :)
Dec 12 18:37:07 <brocktice> Sometimes I wish I were still using Linux on my workstation :/
Dec 12 18:37:25 <JesusFreke> bherrmann, do you know if you have RC30 or not?
Dec 12 18:37:47 <JesusFreke> if not, it's possible to activate the phone through wifi
Dec 12 18:37:57 <bherrmann> JesusFreke: I've tried the 'root'<enter> bit, so I'm guessing I have RC30
Dec 12 18:38:00 <brocktice> JesusFreke, and it's /system to remount, correct?
Dec 12 18:38:24 <JesusFreke> bherrmann, ah. so <enter>reboot<enter> doesn't reboot the phose?
Dec 12 18:38:27 <JesusFreke> phone* :)
Dec 12 18:38:33 <bherrmann> JesusFreke: I mean 'enter' reboot 'enter' , yea
Dec 12 18:38:33 <JesusFreke> brock, yeah
Dec 12 18:38:45 <JesusFreke> bherrmann, yeah, sounds like RC30 then
Dec 12 18:38:46 <brocktice> thanks
Dec 12 18:39:09 <JesusFreke> gl with t-mobile then :)
Dec 12 18:40:43 <Krstnsn`> you dont need data to activate the phonr
Dec 12 18:41:09 <jsharkey> brocktice: did you try the "reboot" trick after a fresh boot of the phone?
Dec 12 18:41:39 <bherrmann> JesusFreke: Just gave the <enter> reboot <enter> thing another spin, no dice for me.
Dec 12 18:41:58 <jsharkey> somtimes that background console can get stuck if youve used the phone for awhile
Dec 12 18:42:06 <jsharkey> so it might work best after a fresh boot
Dec 12 18:42:09 <bherrmann> yea and you type 'cat' enter
Dec 12 18:42:28 <brocktice> jsharkey, eh?
Dec 12 18:42:31 <jasta> sigh, my girlfriend upgraded me to RC30 finally
Dec 12 18:42:36 <brocktice> It remounted just fine.
Dec 12 18:42:36 <ttuttle> jasta: :(
Dec 12 18:42:38 <ttuttle> jasta: dump her.
Dec 12 18:42:41 <jasta> i gave her my phone to play games while she waited in the car for me
Dec 12 18:42:48 <JesusFreke> ouch. heh
Dec 12 18:42:49 <jasta> and when i got back she's like "it's doing some weird updatey thing."
Dec 12 18:42:51 <ttuttle> jasta: lol
Dec 12 18:42:54 <ttuttle> jasta: pwned!
Dec 12 18:42:59 <brocktice> mount -o remount,rw /dev/block/mtd3 or whatever /system
Dec 12 18:43:09 <jasta> but that's ok, i'm getting an engineering phone soon i think
Dec 12 18:43:13 <bparker06> lol jasta
Dec 12 18:43:19 <bparker06> the dev phone?
Dec 12 18:43:23 <jasta> no ;)
Dec 12 18:43:28 <bherrmann> They should have some little quiz that if you pass just gives you shell access.
Dec 12 18:43:33 <bparker06> what's an engineering phone
Dec 12 18:43:58 <bherrmann> enginnering phone is $399 + $25, unblocked bootloader and unlocked telco provider
Dec 12 18:44:02 <michaelnovakjr_> a phone for doctors :)
Dec 12 18:44:05 <jasta> its similar to the dev phone, but i get it for free :)
Dec 12 18:44:17 <bparker06> bherrmann: how is that not the dev phone?
Dec 12 18:44:21 <bparker06> are you saying there's two?
Dec 12 18:44:31 <jasta> hehe, no.  forget it.
Dec 12 18:44:34 <bparker06> lol
Dec 12 18:44:36 <bherrmann> I'd like to clarify, I'm an Idiot and dont listen to me
Dec 12 18:44:38 <brocktice> Is there some way to make it use /cache?
Dec 12 18:45:03 <bherrmann> I dont know what the engnieering phone is then
Dec 12 18:45:50 <michaelnovakjr_> don't worry about it :)
Dec 12 18:47:34 <bherrmann> if you have a tmo trouble ticket, is there a number you can call that skips the first line monkey business?
Dec 12 18:56:03 <marix_chrome> jasta,  the better question was,  how did she get the car into the kitchen?
Dec 12 18:57:40 <brocktice> why can I not set +x on binaries on the device?
Dec 12 18:57:59 <Krstnsn`> its not allowed
Dec 12 18:58:09 <michaelnovakjr_> brocktice: where on the device?
Dec 12 18:58:20 <brocktice>  /system/opt
Dec 12 18:58:31 <brocktice> (a directory I made)
Dec 12 18:58:31 <Krstnsn`> you just cant go around setting +x where ever you want
Dec 12 18:58:44 <brocktice> Oh no?
Dec 12 18:58:57 <michaelnovakjr_> brocktice: /system is ro
Dec 12 18:58:58 <bherrmann> Krstnsn`: What did you say about not needing a data plan to activate?
Dec 12 18:59:12 <brocktice> /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system yaffs2 rw 0 0
Dec 12 18:59:16 <brocktice> not anymore
Dec 12 18:59:21 <michaelnovakjr_> ah :)
Dec 12 18:59:28 <michaelnovakjr_> sneaky sneaky
Dec 12 18:59:33 <brocktice> It's a dev phone
Dec 12 18:59:35 <michaelnovakjr_> mine's ro
Dec 12 18:59:40 <brocktice> But it says bad mode when I try to set +x
Dec 12 18:59:50 <brocktice> Which I can't say I've ever seen in Linux
Dec 12 18:59:51 <JesusFreke> try a numeric mode instead
Dec 12 18:59:55 <brocktice> ah
Dec 12 18:59:58 <brocktice> it's a dumb chmod
Dec 12 18:59:59 <fadden> Look at system/core/toolbox/chmod.c
Dec 12 19:00:03 <brocktice> thanks
Dec 12 19:00:41 <brocktice> eeexcellent
Dec 12 19:00:42 <brocktice> works great
Dec 12 19:08:09 <Krstnsn`> bhermann... my mother got a g1 and doesnt have data. she was able to activate hers with out tmo support
Dec 12 19:10:17 <bherrmann> krstnsn`:  I wonder how she did that?   I can't get past the gmail account step
Dec 12 19:10:33 <orospakr> I wonder if I'll be able to write an IMProvider and have it installable as an APK...
Dec 12 19:11:33 <bherrmann> The iphone has video out support (all you need is the right cable.)   Does the g1 have video out?
Dec 12 19:14:03 <Disconnect> no but the adp1 does if you get the one they ship to the netherlands
Dec 12 19:14:29 <orospakr> Disconnect, really!
Dec 12 19:14:33 <orospakr> How does it work?
Dec 12 19:14:36 <Disconnect> haven't tred
Dec 12 19:14:38 <Disconnect> tried
Dec 12 19:14:51 * Disconnect is still on retail g1 w/ engineering bootloader and jf-rc30-1.2
Dec 12 19:15:30 <`krstnsn> hmm
Dec 12 19:15:35 <`krstnsn> dont know bherrmann
Dec 12 19:16:19 <bherrmann> np thx
Dec 12 19:18:11 <JesusFreke> disconnect, I thought it was the one they shipped to Canada?
Dec 12 19:18:25 <Disconnect> not afaik. some weird law in the netherlands about video playback
Dec 12 19:18:36 <Disconnect> might be the intl version in general but i just heard about nl
Dec 12 19:18:36 <orospakr> JesusFreke, only phone shipped to canada is the ADP1.
Dec 12 19:18:40 <Disconnect> (nl..nz?)
Dec 12 19:18:43 <Disconnect> one of those
Dec 12 19:20:28 <bherrmann> Does anyone know, how the phone selects which APN setting to use?  Does it sweep through all of them and try each one?  Does the SIM Card have a hint that tells it which APN setting to use?
Dec 12 19:21:26 <bherrmann> It was weird that my phone didnt have a "t-mobile US" setting, yet it had all the other tmobile settings.
Dec 12 19:22:01 <Disconnect> sim card can have it
Dec 12 19:23:26 <bherrmann> does the sim card match by the name, exact string match 'T-Mobile US'
Dec 12 19:23:31 <Disconnect> no idea
Dec 12 19:23:46 <`krstnsn> theres that app that lets you select the apn
Dec 12 19:23:48 <Disconnect> i think it just saves "this is my primary apn, this is my secondary apn" but i'm not positive
Dec 12 19:23:54 <Disconnect> i just know its on there
Dec 12 19:24:11 <Disconnect> and sometimes you can get it to autoconf :) (unlocked 1gen iphone Just Worked that way)
Dec 12 19:25:45 <Disconnect> grr. i'd love to go to the holiday party. except i can't get "home" to open. so i can't run gmaps
Dec 12 19:27:42 <bherrmann> What does this factory reset routine do, # Hold Home Key + End key for 20 seconds or until you see a “triangle with an exclamation point and a picture of the G1″
Dec 12 19:27:42 <bherrmann> # Open the QWERTY keyboard and hit Alt+W
Dec 12 19:27:45 <Disconnect> (hmm. dave and busters. but the company is mostly muslim. so no booze. shoulda brought a flask.)
Dec 12 19:27:52 <Disconnect> wipes out /data
Dec 12 19:28:23 <bherrmann> I think that just fixed my problem
Dec 12 19:28:39 <Death_Syn> More Cowbell!
Dec 12 19:28:43 <Death_Syn> damn, that's a fun app
Dec 12 19:29:36 <`krstnsn> its fucking dumb
Dec 12 19:29:42 <bherrmann> So thats nice.   45 minutes with tmobile on Wednesday, an hour last night and I google 'factory reset' and I figured out how to get my phone activated
Dec 12 19:29:55 <`krstnsn> how?
Dec 12 19:30:38 <bherrmann> beautiful.  I've had the sim since tuesday, and only just now do I finally get to try out my phone.
Dec 12 19:31:05 <`krstnsn> howd you get it?
Dec 12 19:31:43 <brocktice> Death_Syn, I gotta have more cowbell!
Dec 12 19:32:26 <bherrmann> factory reset.
Dec 12 19:32:33 <bherrmann> factory reset rules.
Dec 12 19:32:35 <Disconnect> ok holiday party time. ttyl! (maybe tonight. maybe not. but quick, RyeBrye, try to get me on engadget :) ..)
Dec 12 19:33:10 <Death_Syn> brocktice: i think i'll try it on my gf's dad
Dec 12 19:33:43 <`krstnsn> so you had to do a factory reset from the activation screen?
Dec 12 19:33:49 <bherrmann> I think my phone's APN settings must have gotten messed with.
Dec 12 19:34:08 <bherrmann> Factory reset works like this;  http://androidcentral.com/factory-reset-tmobile-g1/
Dec 12 19:34:27 <bherrmann> you turn it off, then power on holding keys, then hit ALT-W
Dec 12 19:35:22 <tethridge> man that ophone sure looks sweet
Dec 12 19:36:21 <`krstnsn> ophone?
Dec 12 19:36:33 <`krstnsn> ya the ophone is a fucking killer of a phone
Dec 12 19:36:50 <`krstnsn> oh factory reset
Dec 12 19:37:04 <bherrmann> ohpone -> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10121920-1.html
Dec 12 19:37:53 <brocktice> pretty
Dec 12 19:37:55 <brocktice> keyboard?
Dec 12 19:38:11 <marix_chrome> no keyboard.
Dec 12 19:38:14 <marix_chrome> no go
Dec 12 19:38:37 <Death_Syn> i wish for a palm-form-factor android device
Dec 12 19:38:43 <`krstnsn> no keyboard
Dec 12 19:38:52 <`krstnsn> i dont like the hardwarekeys
Dec 12 19:38:59 <`krstnsn> i hat flipping them out
Dec 12 19:39:02 <`krstnsn> and in
Dec 12 19:39:43 <Death_Syn> yeah, that's why I want a palm-style format
Dec 12 19:39:59 <Death_Syn> htc should be able to do it, they've already been making treos for palm
Dec 12 19:41:14 <`krstnsn> i wish they slapped android inside of the touch HD
Dec 12 19:41:24 <`krstnsn> that phone woulda flew off the shlevs
Dec 12 19:41:27 <`krstnsn> shelvs
Dec 12 19:41:32 <`krstnsn> whatever the hell they are
Dec 12 19:42:46 <Chewy> shelves
Dec 12 19:42:46 <Chewy> lol
Dec 12 19:44:44 <bherrmann> Is there synergy for g1?
Dec 12 19:47:52 <blau-MikeDG> i dont understand how to send formatted strings to something grr
Dec 12 19:48:18 <blau-MikeDG> well notification at least
Dec 12 19:52:51 <marix_chrome> bherrmann,  whats synergy?
Dec 12 19:54:00 <bherrmann> marix_chrome: lets you share mouse and keyboard with multiple machines.   Mix and match 1 keyboard mouse with Windows / Mac / Ubuntu.
Dec 12 19:54:26 <bherrmann> marix_chrome: see http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/
Dec 12 19:55:00 <bherrmann> marix_chrome: you could use it at the office to use your normal screen and mouse with the phone.
Dec 12 19:55:19 <bherrmann> s/screen/keyboard/
Dec 12 19:56:02 <marix_chrome> bherrmann,  oh,  yea  ive used that before... how would you use it on the g1 given that it doesn't have a mouse.
Dec 12 19:57:02 <bherrmann> marix_chrome: good point.    I presume keyboard focus would move to the device and away.   The scroll wheel on the mouse could map to the ball thingy.
Dec 12 19:57:55 <marix_chrome> maybe,  but the trackball is more like arrow keys than a mouse ball.
Dec 12 19:59:54 <fadden> The trackball in the G1 is pretty low-resolution.
Dec 12 20:00:13 <marix_chrome> fadden,  yea,  thats a more accurate statement...
Dec 12 20:00:47 <marix_chrome> you'd have to take a break to make it across that 1600x1200 monitor of yours
Dec 12 20:00:49 <orospakr> hmm, I wonder if Android will be ported to the oFone... ;)
Dec 12 20:02:45 <meoblast001> someone said android sucked today and i was like O=<
Dec 12 20:03:33 <marix_chrome> meoblast001,  did you choke them out and then put it on youtube?
Dec 12 20:03:42 <meoblast001> no
Dec 12 20:03:45 <meoblast001> it was in school
Dec 12 20:03:50 <bherrmann> everything sucks, everything is great
Dec 12 20:03:50 <marix_chrome> oh
Dec 12 20:03:59 <meoblast001> he said he wanted to get an iphone... i said have fun finding apps for it
Dec 12 20:04:01 <bherrmann> all coins have two sides
Dec 12 20:04:12 <distatica> Where do you actually get an android phone? Do you build it yourself or buy it from somewhere?
Dec 12 20:04:19 <bherrmann> iphone has some great apps.  like 10,000
Dec 12 20:04:20 <meoblast001> in a year android will have tripple the apps an iphone has
Dec 12 20:04:26 <distatica> All I can find is development resources
Dec 12 20:04:42 <meoblast001> G1
Dec 12 20:04:44 <bherrmann> iphone is like a bmw.
Dec 12 20:04:46 <marix_chrome> distatica,  g1.tmobiel.com
Dec 12 20:04:54 <bherrmann> some people like bmw's, some people don't
Dec 12 20:04:56 <marix_chrome> g1.tmobile.com even
Dec 12 20:05:02 <bherrmann> doesnt make bmw's bad
Dec 12 20:05:05 <bherrmann> or good
Dec 12 20:05:06 <meoblast001> you buy it off a manuafacturer that build a phone using Android
Dec 12 20:05:09 <meoblast001> currently only 1
Dec 12 20:05:41 <meoblast001> since im in here, any linux uusers in here?
Dec 12 20:05:51 <bherrmann> sure is easy to get root access on an iphone.
Dec 12 20:06:13 <bherrmann> Isnt that Ironic.   The closed platform is really more open.
Dec 12 20:06:24 <meoblast001> lol
Dec 12 20:06:29 <meoblast001> open in a bad way
Dec 12 20:06:41 <meoblast001> i'll ssh root@youriphone
Dec 12 20:06:43 <bherrmann> It's not especially cut and dry
Dec 12 20:06:51 <distatica> oh damn, not available to canadians yet then
Dec 12 20:07:08 <meoblast001> there is now a phone platform for the 3 most popular operating systems
Dec 12 20:07:12 <bherrmann> I changed it from 'alpine' to something else
Dec 12 20:07:15 <meoblast001> NT, Darwin, and Linux
Dec 12 20:08:02 <orospakr> oh man, the SDK still doesn't include any of the IM components.  My only choice for writing an IM provider is doing the whole repo build.
Dec 12 20:08:27 <anno^da_> Is there a way to upgrade an application with the Adobe Debug Bridge?
Dec 12 20:08:33 <meoblast001> wx needs to write wxANdroid
Dec 12 20:08:39 <anno^da_> abd install doesnt work for that.
Dec 12 20:08:44 <`krstnsn> for those of you that havent seen this
Dec 12 20:08:45 <`krstnsn> http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/
Dec 12 20:08:47 <`krstnsn> peep it
Dec 12 20:08:49 <`krstnsn> hard
Dec 12 20:08:53 <`krstnsn> its wikkid
Dec 12 20:09:07 <mikey|> ~logs
Dec 12 20:09:11 <mikey|> hmm
Dec 12 20:09:22 <mikey|> does the channel get logged?
Dec 12 20:09:34 <`krstnsn> if someone individually does
Dec 12 20:10:08 <marix_chrome> 'krstnsn,  how does it do when you switch towers or connection drops for a short time?
Dec 12 20:11:06 <heatX> marix_chrome: it disconnects then reconnects to the server you were on
Dec 12 20:11:13 <orospakr> `krstnsn, dude, sweet!
Dec 12 20:11:39 <Chewy> nyt lol
Dec 12 20:11:41 <Chewy> he's a good coder
Dec 12 20:11:42 <fadden> ~log
Dec 12 20:11:52 <fadden> (oh, what was that magic word)
Dec 12 20:11:55 <orospakr> (heh, I see his nick in the video)
Dec 12 20:11:57 <orospakr> nyt, nice job!
Dec 12 20:12:01 <`krstnsn> ive been connected for hours
Dec 12 20:12:07 <marix_chrome> i didn't realize nyt open sourced this.
Dec 12 20:12:18 <`krstnsn> sometimes it drops you over and over
Dec 12 20:12:20 <`krstnsn> but rarely
Dec 12 20:12:27 <`krstnsn> wup heat
Dec 12 20:12:33 <`krstnsn> sup rather
Dec 12 20:12:52 <RyeBrye> Has anything come out of the sprint developers conference today? or is it just a non-event? ( http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/09/googles-rich-miner-to-deliver-keynote-at-sprints-mobile-develo/ )
Dec 12 20:13:11 <`krstnsn> fuck sprint
Dec 12 20:13:14 <`krstnsn> seriously
Dec 12 20:13:35 <Fredbo> is android too good for sprint?
Dec 12 20:13:46 <grey-> I think sprint is part of the OHA.
Dec 12 20:14:00 <fadden> Sprint is an OHA member.
Dec 12 20:14:00 <`krstnsn> sprint said they wanted nothing to do with android
Dec 12 20:14:07 <`krstnsn> but then came back and said they wanna do it
Dec 12 20:14:07 <heatX> 'krstnsn: chillllllin
Dec 12 20:14:09 <languish> they did not say that
Dec 12 20:14:17 <fadden> http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html
Dec 12 20:14:28 <`krstnsn> let me dig it up then
Dec 12 20:14:39 <languish> Sprint just wasn't ready to go with an android device yet, so they claimed android wasn't mature enough *yet* for them
Dec 12 20:14:53 <heatX> i'm thinking the next OTA impressed sprint
Dec 12 20:14:58 <`krstnsn> http://www.google.com/search?q=sprint+too+good+for+android&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
Dec 12 20:15:20 <languish> `krstnsn, alot of *bloggers* overreacted.
Dec 12 20:15:25 <languish> and misrepresented
Dec 12 20:15:28 <fadden> http://newsreleases.sprint.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=127149&p=irol-newsArticle_newsroom&ID=1234093   <-- has Sprint announcing a Java platform
Dec 12 20:15:59 <languish> the ceo of sprint is a douche wans did poopoo android as being immature. they never claimed they would never use it
Dec 12 20:16:06 <Chewy> is there a way to decompile a .apk to get the source?
Dec 12 20:16:10 <Chewy> well, decompile the .dex
Dec 12 20:16:10 <languish> wans/once
Dec 12 20:16:19 <Fredbo> sprint and tmobile are on that list... I thought verizon had joined up, didn't they?
Dec 12 20:16:30 <RyeBrye> A bunch justjoined
Dec 12 20:16:36 <`krstnsn> there are a dozen more just joined
Dec 12 20:16:39 <`krstnsn> are they on the list?
Dec 12 20:16:43 <grey-> heatX: next OTA?
Dec 12 20:17:03 <`krstnsn> im thinking sprint is about to go undermyself
Dec 12 20:17:04 <Death_Syn> Fredbo: vodaphone did, but verizon and att have not (yet)
Dec 12 20:17:15 <fadden> Verizon and AT&T are not OHA members.
Dec 12 20:17:22 <`krstnsn> they lost like some hundredthousand and something subscribers in the last year
Dec 12 20:17:24 <Fredbo> AT&T has been talking about converting to a single OS for all their handsets
Dec 12 20:17:32 <heatX> grey-: well, yeah. sprint has probably seen what's coming up in the next OTA update and i'm thinking that's what changed their minds
Dec 12 20:17:33 <`krstnsn> the only reason they stayd afloat was nextel
Dec 12 20:17:34 <Fredbo> I knew they weren't members
Dec 12 20:17:34 <fadden> Chewy: "dexdump -d"
Dec 12 20:17:34 <grey-> at&t is full of crap.
Dec 12 20:17:48 <languish> personally I think the OHA should kick sprint out
Dec 12 20:17:50 <grey-> heatX: ah, is this the rumoured rc33 w/ flash?
Dec 12 20:18:11 <Fredbo> whats AT&T gonna do about the iphone if they go all symbian?  release the contract with apple?
Dec 12 20:18:12 <heatX> great-: yupppp and maybe we'll get the soft keyboard too
Dec 12 20:18:12 <Fredbo> heh
Dec 12 20:18:14 <bherrmann7> test
Dec 12 20:18:21 <grey-> heatX: schweet.
Dec 12 20:18:30 <languish> no member of the OHA should purposely work against their projects for short term business purposes
Dec 12 20:18:33 <bherrmann7> androidirc sweet
Dec 12 20:19:23 <`krstnsn> ya i idle with this IRC app 24/7
Dec 12 20:19:33 <`krstnsn> im testing the battery pull today
Dec 12 20:20:05 <`krstnsn> last couple days i have been sitting with it plugged in all day
Dec 12 20:20:30 <marix_chrome> i wish someone would make a desk doc for my g1
Dec 12 20:20:35 <bherrmann7> androidirc could use some ui affordance to indicate sliding changes chanels
Dec 12 20:21:02 <`krstnsn> ya i thought the same thing
Dec 12 20:21:12 <`krstnsn> i think hes just trying to get it to work for now
Dec 12 20:21:20 <bherrmann> he did a great job.
Dec 12 20:21:37 <`krstnsn> i wish someone would make a car dock
Dec 12 20:22:26 <heatX> i think you can use the doc for the iphone
Dec 12 20:22:47 <bherrmann> I've used my $10 iphone doc with success
Dec 12 20:22:53 <JesusFreke> I saw a car dock for the G1 the other day
Dec 12 20:22:57 <JesusFreke> I don't remember where though
Dec 12 20:23:01 <JesusFreke> sorry :/
Dec 12 20:23:10 <JesusFreke> tiltable and everything
Dec 12 20:23:22 <heatX> what!?!
Dec 12 20:23:25 <heatX> find the link! lol
Dec 12 20:23:36 <`krstnsn> what
Dec 12 20:23:38 <`krstnsn> ya find the link
Dec 12 20:23:46 <`krstnsn> anyone tried the new google labs thing
Dec 12 20:23:49 <`krstnsn> the sms chat shit
Dec 12 20:23:51 <JesusFreke> just search for G1 car mount
Dec 12 20:23:55 <JesusFreke> lots of hits
Dec 12 20:24:21 <heatX> 'krstnsn: what google labs thing?
Dec 12 20:24:44 <`krstnsn> sms chat
Dec 12 20:25:07 <`krstnsn> http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/really-new-in-labs-this-time-sms-text.html
Dec 12 20:25:08 <heatX> link?
Dec 12 20:25:11 <heatX> lol
Dec 12 20:25:32 <RyeBrye> I tried to use it to chat wiht my sister, but it just said her provider wasn't on board with them yet
Dec 12 20:26:32 <`krstnsn> ahh
Dec 12 20:27:23 <bherrmann> I use this in my car.  Unviersal Car Windshield Mount Holder for Apple Iphone Smartphone, Ipod Touch By Ikross http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011YO8S4
Dec 12 20:27:35 <bherrmann> hard to beat the under $10 with shipping price.
Dec 12 20:29:12 <mikey|> anyone here used auto scroll using a scrollview + textview?
Dec 12 20:29:15 <`krstnsn> well i was looking for something that would take the place of a 3n1 adapted
Dec 12 20:29:29 <`krstnsn> so i could plug my deck into it and charge it
Dec 12 20:29:32 <Death_Syn> hey
Dec 12 20:29:34 <Death_Syn> that's a good idea
Dec 12 20:29:36 <Death_Syn> thanks for that, bherrmann
Dec 12 20:30:41 <`krstnsn> wtf i enebled that sms shit but it doesnt show up on my main gmail screen
Dec 12 20:32:20 <bherrmann> I have a car charger for my motorolla phone and that just seems to work with the g1.
Dec 12 20:32:38 <heatX> yeah my blackberry charger works on my g1
Dec 12 20:32:41 <bherrmann> I have a tape deck with casette converter and I plan to get the g1 plug coverter thingy
Dec 12 20:33:10 <Death_Syn> i already had a charger for my gf's dash in my car
Dec 12 20:33:16 <Death_Syn> so I just use it on my g1
Dec 12 20:33:26 <Death_Syn> tmo sells the same charger for both anyway
Dec 12 20:35:08 <`krstnsn> ya i was just looking for a dock that would take the place of the 3n1. as in i just plug the g1 into the dock plug the dock intot he deck and the car charger
Dec 12 20:35:16 <`krstnsn> just to clean it up a bit
Dec 12 20:35:22 <`krstnsn> that 3n1 is fucking ugly
Dec 12 20:35:56 <heatX> yeah, i can't wait to see one of those. i'm sure we'll see one before january
Dec 12 20:36:13 <`krstnsn> hopefully
Dec 12 20:36:19 <`krstnsn> gasbot said he found a 2n1
Dec 12 20:36:29 <`krstnsn> wtf do i need mini usbs for?
Dec 12 20:36:32 <`krstnsn> i just need one
Dec 12 20:36:41 <`krstnsn> 2
Dec 12 20:36:47 <`krstnsn> wtf do i need 2 mini usbs for?
Dec 12 20:37:03 <heatX> well you could always use the usb adapter on the 2n1
Dec 12 20:37:05 <bherrmann> chow peeps.
Dec 12 20:37:05 <`krstnsn> id rather just have the 3.5 and 1 miniusb
Dec 12 20:37:17 <`krstnsn> what do you mean
Dec 12 20:37:36 <heatX> like, you know how the g1 comes with a miniusb to 3.5 adapter?
Dec 12 20:37:41 <heatX> you could just use that
Dec 12 20:37:48 <`krstnsn> oh
Dec 12 20:37:50 <`krstnsn> it didnt
Dec 12 20:37:54 <`krstnsn> i got a preorder
Dec 12 20:37:59 <`krstnsn> so i was SOL on that
Dec 12 20:37:59 <d0netsFN> so i think i lost root somehow
Dec 12 20:38:05 * d0netsFN wants to cry
Dec 12 20:38:06 <kRutOn>  Is there a way to check what revision the G1 has before you boot into Android? i.e. through the bootloader?
Dec 12 20:38:13 <heatX> i think if you go to the store theyll give you one
Dec 12 20:38:18 <heatX> oh wait, you ordered yours right
Dec 12 20:38:20 <`krstnsn> ya
Dec 12 20:38:25 <`krstnsn> they wont give you one
Dec 12 20:38:29 <`krstnsn> it costs 10 bucks
Dec 12 20:38:29 <heatX> aw lame
Dec 12 20:38:36 <`krstnsn> they have it avail
Dec 12 20:38:36 <heatX> yeah 10 bucks at tmo, so lame
Dec 12 20:38:50 <heatX> that adaptor is cool tho
Dec 12 20:38:53 <heatX> cause it has a mix
Dec 12 20:38:55 <heatX> mic*
Dec 12 20:39:12 <`krstnsn> but like i said i can find a 3n1 that has 2 miniusb and one 3.5mm
Dec 12 20:39:18 <`krstnsn> but like i said thats too bulky
Dec 12 20:39:25 <`krstnsn> my dash isnt that of a semi
Dec 12 20:39:31 <`krstnsn> i cant have all this shit up on my dash
Dec 12 20:39:40 <heatX> how big is it? isnt it tiny?
Dec 12 20:39:54 <`krstnsn> it looks bulky
Dec 12 20:39:59 <`krstnsn> im just a freak dude
Dec 12 20:40:03 <kRutOn>  krstnsn: Just get a surf board and bolt it to your dash along with a desktop computer and matching 23" CRT
Dec 12 20:40:11 <heatX> rofl
Dec 12 20:40:13 <`krstnsn> haha
Dec 12 20:40:30 <`krstnsn> itll botherme that i have an extra usb not in use
Dec 12 20:40:36 <`krstnsn> ill need to plug something into it
Dec 12 20:40:56 <kRutOn>  too bad that HTC to 3.5 adapter isn't a standard, because monoprice.com would have it for 39 cents
Dec 12 20:41:08 <heatX> do they have an external mic that you could plug in?
Dec 12 20:46:13 <BlindOracle> can the g1dev be activated via wifi?
Dec 12 20:48:53 <BlindOracle> -/./.../-/../-./--.
Dec 12 20:49:27 <`krstnsn> found the 2n1
Dec 12 20:49:37 <fadden> .-. . .- .-.. .-.. -.-- ..--..
Dec 12 20:49:37 <`krstnsn> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011WDLES
Dec 12 20:49:40 <`krstnsn> its fucking clean
Dec 12 20:52:29 <Nafai> `krstnsn: Nice!  I just might have to order that
Dec 12 20:52:35 <`krstnsn> ya im about it
Dec 12 20:53:35 <morrildl> oh nice
Dec 12 20:53:39 <morrildl> I might have to get one too
Dec 12 20:54:07 <michaelnovakjr_> little over my budget :)
Dec 12 20:54:26 <`krstnsn> haha
Dec 12 20:54:26 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr_: well, there is a recession going on
Dec 12 20:54:31 <michaelnovakjr_> indeed
Dec 12 20:54:38 <`krstnsn> cheaper then that shitty one tmo is trying to pawn off for 10 bucks
Dec 12 20:54:48 <morrildl> Mostly I want the 16GB micro-SD cards to come down in price more
Dec 12 20:54:52 <`krstnsn> ya
Dec 12 20:54:56 <`krstnsn> i want the 32gig
Dec 12 20:54:58 <jasta> i buy all my adapter type things on ebay and stuff.  i got two car chargers, an extra wall charger, 1 extusb to 3.5mm and another extusb to power/3.5mm and also a retractable 3.5mm male to male all for about $30
Dec 12 20:55:00 <marix_chrome> 'krstnsn,  can you turn that into a base that i can just plop my g1 into.  Ill give you like 15 bucks!
Dec 12 20:55:07 <morrildl> I don't want to pay like 4x what one half as big costs
Dec 12 20:55:18 <BlindOracle> can the g1dev be activated via wifi?
Dec 12 20:55:31 <`krstnsn> wtf japan has had 32gig micros for like 2 years
Dec 12 20:55:41 <marix_chrome> blindoracle,  i don't know if it even needs actived...
Dec 12 20:55:41 <Nafai> Ooo..I need a good car charger too
Dec 12 20:56:04 <BlindOracle> marix_chrome: so how do you get past the stupid google sign in which is forced on you?
Dec 12 20:56:29 <marix_chrome> blindoracle,  is it present on the dev phone?
Dec 12 20:56:39 <BlindOracle> marix_chrome: yes
Dec 12 20:57:13 <marix_chrome> BlindOracle: dunno
Dec 12 20:58:03 <BlindOracle> :(
Dec 12 20:58:29 <morrildl> eh
Dec 12 20:58:32 <morrildl> what is that magic
Dec 12 20:59:11 <morrildl> setprop app.setupwizard.disable 1
Dec 12 20:59:23 <morrildl> I think you run adb shell and type that
Dec 12 20:59:26 <`krstnsn> i dont thing the dev1 needs activation does it?
Dec 12 20:59:28 <morrildl> IIRC it should work on the dev devices
Dec 12 20:59:41 <languish> Koushik you around?
Dec 12 21:00:29 <morrildl>  adb -d shell "echo app.setupwizard.disable=1 >> /data/local.prop";
Dec 12 21:00:32 <morrildl> there, that
Dec 12 21:00:48 <morrildl> that should disable the setup wizard thing
Dec 12 21:00:58 <morrildl> you'll need to restart the runtime, probably easiest to just reboot it
Dec 12 21:01:22 <morrildl> note that Gmail and so on won't work properly if you do that (obviously)
Dec 12 21:01:59 <BlindOracle> morrildl: cool. Thanks. How long does it take for that commond to run?
Dec 12 21:02:37 <maxamillion> i am planning on going and getting a G1 tomorrow, and i was curious if when you do system software upgrades, does that do it over the cellular network or do i have to plug into a computer to do the phone update?
Dec 12 21:02:50 <BlindOracle> Krstnsn`: my g1dev forces you to create or sign into your google account very first thing. So yes, it requires it.
Dec 12 21:03:34 <jasta> maxamillion: it will do it over the cell network
Dec 12 21:03:51 <jasta> maxamillion: the G1 does not require you use the USB cable for any essential functions.
Dec 12 21:03:54 <BlindOracle> morrildl: lsusb shows the device (Bus 001 Device 008: ID 0bb4:0c02 High Tech Computer Corp.) but adb does not appear to be connecting to it.
Dec 12 21:04:10 <jasta> maxamillion: *ahem*, even music: http://five.googlecode.com/ :)
Dec 12 21:04:20 <maxamillion> jasta: doesn't it charge over usb?
Dec 12 21:04:37 <jasta> yes but it does not require USB to charge.  you can use other chargers
Dec 12 21:04:38 <maxamillion> jasta: oh nice ... cool app
Dec 12 21:04:39 <fadden> BlindOracle: ls -l /dev/bus/usb/001/008
Dec 12 21:04:42 <d0netsFN> hey could someone tell me if im fucked for sure or not
Dec 12 21:04:52 <maxamillion> jasta: ah, ok ... awesome
Dec 12 21:04:56 * maxamillion can't wait to get it
Dec 12 21:04:59 * BlindOracle has at&t and dumbly assumed wifi access for initial development would be acceptable. Seemingly it is - so long as you have a data plan to get past the google sign in crap
Dec 12 21:05:00 <michaelnovakjr_> jeeze, people of potty mouths today
Dec 12 21:05:05 <d0netsFN> does my "phone info" look different if im using jesusfrekes rc30?
Dec 12 21:05:19 <fadden> morrildl: l can haz #developingondevicehardware ?
Dec 12 21:06:24 * jasta is excited to be in SF tonight :)
Dec 12 21:06:42 <maxamillion> jasta: thank you for the information!
Dec 12 21:08:54 * nyt yawns
Dec 12 21:09:04 <d0netsFN> high nyt
Dec 12 21:09:16 <d0netsFN> ok hey my "buld number" says kila-user 1.0 tc4-rc30 116143
Dec 12 21:09:16 <d0netsFN> ota-rel-keys,release-keys
Dec 12 21:09:18 <`krstnsn> sup nyt
Dec 12 21:09:21 <d0netsFN> is that no bueno?
Dec 12 21:09:28 <BlindOracle> adb -d shell doesn't even connect to it
Dec 12 21:09:51 <d0netsFN> clindoracle what is your issue
Dec 12 21:09:53 <d0netsFN> blind*
Dec 12 21:10:22 <JesusFreke> BlindOracle, do you know what version you have? RC30? or < RC30?
Dec 12 21:10:25 <fadden> BlindOracle: what do you see from the "ls" command I wrote earlier?
Dec 12 21:10:49 <BlindOracle> d0netsFN: just got my g1dev phone. I at&t so no 3g. It is forcing google account activation which is impossible for me. Won't let you connect via wifi.
Dec 12 21:11:02 <fadden> And do you have "USB debugging" enabled in Applications -> Development?
Dec 12 21:11:18 <JesusFreke> he can't get into the settings
Dec 12 21:11:20 <BlindOracle> /dev/bus/usb/001/007 should be the device
Dec 12 21:11:29 <BlindOracle> and the device is there
Dec 12 21:11:34 <fadden> BlindOracle: you wrote "Bus 001 Device 008"
Dec 12 21:11:49 <fadden> It needs to be there and be accessible.
Dec 12 21:12:12 <d0netsFN> blindoracle you cant just enter your google info?
Dec 12 21:12:40 <BlindOracle> that's odd...it suddenly said your phone is now activated and I'm at home
Dec 12 21:12:40 <fadden> If it's root/root rw-r--r-- you're not going to get very far
Dec 12 21:12:57 <BlindOracle> fadden: I have access...very odd
Dec 12 21:13:23 <JesusFreke> hmm.  I wonder how you managed that. lol
Dec 12 21:13:33 <d0netsFN> hey jesus freke could i pm you?
Dec 12 21:13:37 <d0netsFN> im about to throw shit
Dec 12 21:13:49 <JesusFreke> only if you don't throw it at me
Dec 12 21:13:54 <BlindOracle> I did try something but I'm really not sure if it did it.
Dec 12 21:13:56 <d0netsFN> ok
Dec 12 21:14:05 <JesusFreke> blind, what did you try? out of curiosity?
Dec 12 21:14:19 <BlindOracle> I created an APN called "wap.cingular" and the apn is "wap.cingular"
Dec 12 21:14:36 <JesusFreke> dunno. it may have done it
Dec 12 21:15:39 <BlindOracle> placed my first call. it worked
Dec 12 21:16:37 <BlindOracle> received a call...it's working
Dec 12 21:16:51 <BlindOracle> still can't shell into it though
Dec 12 21:18:01 <fadden> BlindOracle: check the USB settings now
Dec 12 21:18:03 <JesusFreke> blind, make sure you turn on debugging
Dec 12 21:20:43 <BlindOracle> is there an icon which lets you know you're wifi?
Dec 12 21:20:56 <michaelnovakjr_> yes
Dec 12 21:21:10 <michaelnovakjr_> it looks like a standard wifi icon in the top right
Dec 12 21:21:23 <JesusFreke> yeah, you don't get the 3G or E icon, you get a little icon with a stack of horizontal lines to show the signal level of the wifi
Dec 12 21:21:34 <JesusFreke> iirc :)
Dec 12 21:21:34 <michaelnovakjr_> yes, its next to the cell signal icon
Dec 12 21:22:23 <BlindOracle> JesusFreke: okay..cool...I have that - five bars horizontal, left to right, shortest to tallest bar
Dec 12 21:23:05 <BlindOracle> hmmm...I'm thinking that's not it
Dec 12 21:23:13 <BlindOracle> I turned off wifi and nothing changed
Dec 12 21:23:21 <BlindOracle> doh...I know what it is
Dec 12 21:23:33 <ivantis> man my G1 isnt here yet
Dec 12 21:23:38 <ivantis> those jerks at UPS
Dec 12 21:23:55 <JesusFreke> blind, yeah. that's not wifi, that's your cell signal strength
Dec 12 21:24:02 <ivantis> it says "out for delivery" as of 7:30 this morning
Dec 12 21:24:05 <ivantis> still isnt here
Dec 12 21:24:08 <BlindOracle> where can I get may can from?
Dec 12 21:24:25 <michaelnovakjr_> BlindOracle: the wifi is bars vertically
Dec 12 21:24:25 * JesusFreke fails to parse that last statement
Dec 12 21:24:52 <BlindOracle> michaelnovakjr_: ok
Dec 12 21:25:18 <heatX> ivantis: make sure youre home when they deliver it
Dec 12 21:25:41 <ivantis> my dad was here all day, and i just got home from school
Dec 12 21:25:44 <ivantis> i will be here
Dec 12 21:26:10 <languish> Any ideas on what could cause a G1 to go in to airplane mode while sitting idle, and not come out of it when disabling airplane mode under settings?
Dec 12 21:26:47 <jasta> an application could do that to you.  such as perhaps locale
Dec 12 21:26:56 <jasta> i would review the permissions of apps you have installed :)
Dec 12 21:27:09 <jasta> and also check adb logcat to see if anything is yelling at you
Dec 12 21:27:11 <wpk> languish: power manager?
Dec 12 21:27:14 <languish> No app was started.. and no new app has been installed for at least 3 days
Dec 12 21:27:21 <languish> power manager isn't installed
Dec 12 21:27:28 <michaelnovakjr_> you dont know an app isn't started
Dec 12 21:27:35 <michaelnovakjr_> what if it starts on boot?
Dec 12 21:27:40 <michaelnovakjr_> and you don't see it running?
Dec 12 21:27:57 <languish> yeah gonna have to log it when I get home
Dec 12 21:28:08 <languish> but this was just random
Dec 12 21:28:29 <languish> phone was sitting on the deskm I picked it up, no signal.. checked settings and it's in airplane mode
Dec 12 21:28:48 <jasta> as i said, any app could do that so.... :)
Dec 12 21:28:53 <languish> nod
Dec 12 21:29:19 <languish> Don't have many apps on it in the first place, a couple of games from the market
Dec 12 21:29:26 <languish> after last reset
Dec 12 21:30:58 <BlindOracle> anyone know how to get mac of g1 wifi?
Dec 12 21:31:51 <jasta> ifconfig?
Dec 12 21:32:04 <jasta> or associate it somewhere and look at the router
Dec 12 21:33:52 <fadden> ifconfig doesn't seem to show it
Dec 12 21:34:02 <languish> Settings, About Phone, Status
Dec 12 21:34:13 <languish> if your wifi is enabled, it'll show the mac address
Dec 12 21:34:31 <fadden> languish FTW
Dec 12 21:35:19 <brocktice> ivantis, UPS delivers at home as late as 19:00
Dec 12 21:37:54 * bgupta_ wonders if he's ever gonna get his ADP1. FedEx is claiming that "Customer not available or business closed"  yesterday and today even though he was there the whole day both days....
Dec 12 21:39:15 <fadden> Call them.
Dec 12 21:39:18 <vol> bgupta_: call them up and tell them that you were there
Dec 12 21:39:20 <AstainHellbring> bgupta go to there hub
Dec 12 21:39:22 <vol> before the guy on the truck makes off with it
Dec 12 21:39:24 <vol> yeah
Dec 12 21:39:27 <vol> go to wherever the truck goes back to
Dec 12 21:39:30 <vol> you can pick it up from there
Dec 12 21:39:45 <fadden> Call them first to find out when it's expected to be back in the FedEx distribution point.
Dec 12 21:39:47 <bgupta_> I did... they said no one is answering at the terminal, and their voice mail is full.
Dec 12 21:39:48 <RyeBrye> Yeah, definitely call them
Dec 12 21:39:59 <languish> or call them and redirect the package to your home/work
Dec 12 21:39:59 <meyou> so...NES emu for 'droid?
Dec 12 21:40:02 <fadden> Sounds like a first-class operation.
Dec 12 21:40:11 <meyou> someone whip one up for me real quick
Dec 12 21:40:22 <michaelnovakjr_> no
Dec 12 21:40:24 <bgupta_> UNfortuantely I word from home.. so I don't have an alternate delivery location option.
Dec 12 21:40:25 <RyeBrye> That's nuts. THey can redispatch drivers out in the field easily
Dec 12 21:40:35 <bgupta_> s/word/work/
Dec 12 21:40:41 * RyeBrye thinks there is nothing unfortunate baout workin from home
Dec 12 21:40:47 <languish> I sispect bgupta lives somewhere that doesn't get the same service the rest of us do :|
Dec 12 21:40:50 <languish> *suspect
Dec 12 21:41:07 <RyeBrye> bgupta: It is FedEx right? Not FexEd or some knockoff carrier? ;)
Dec 12 21:41:09 <bgupta_> RyeBrye: In almost all other situations I would agree with you.
Dec 12 21:41:17 <bgupta_> Yeah FedEx.
Dec 12 21:41:19 <languish> oh wait, NYC? DUDE
Dec 12 21:41:24 <ivantis> yeah, they might deliver it really late
Dec 12 21:41:29 <ivantis> grr
Dec 12 21:41:33 <ivantis> i want it now!
Dec 12 21:41:47 <d0netsFN> $ adb push recovery.img /system/recovery.img
Dec 12 21:41:48 <d0netsFN> failed to copy 'recovery.img' to '/system/recovery.img': No space left on device
Dec 12 21:41:49 <brocktice> ivantis, I hear ya. I was checking the windows for the fedex truck every 20 minutes today
Dec 12 21:41:52 <bgupta_> No.. checking their website says delivery exception said they tried to deliver it a 3:14 today..
Dec 12 21:41:55 <d0netsFN> any idears?
Dec 12 21:42:11 <ivantis> and im not 18, so i cant sign for it
Dec 12 21:42:13 <RyeBrye> adb push recovery.img /sdcard/recovery.img
Dec 12 21:42:16 <ivantis> and my dad is gone right now
Dec 12 21:42:18 <ivantis> crap
Dec 12 21:42:22 <RyeBrye> Like they ever really care if you sign for it
Dec 12 21:42:26 <ivantis> better be back soon
Dec 12 21:42:28 <languish> bgupta call them and leave special instructions.. like to ring the doorbell for 10 minutes straight
Dec 12 21:42:30 <RyeBrye> Just sign for it - they don't check ID
Dec 12 21:42:42 <ivantis> but i cant write cursive
Dec 12 21:42:47 <d0netsFN> ok ryebrye then what
Dec 12 21:42:48 <languish> scribble
Dec 12 21:42:50 <RyeBrye> Just scribble a line
Dec 12 21:42:56 <ivantis> good plan
Dec 12 21:43:06 <RyeBrye> d0netsFN: on the phone, once it is there - adb shell and get root
Dec 12 21:43:06 <d0netsFN> cp /sdcard/recovery.img /system/   ?
Dec 12 21:43:06 <languish> signwave
Dec 12 21:43:08 <languish> :D
Dec 12 21:43:12 <brocktice> is there any reason that 'dd'ing the /data/ block device to a file on the sdcard wouldn't work for backup purposes?
Dec 12 21:43:13 <RyeBrye> no
Dec 12 21:43:15 <ivantis> the guy just wants to get rid of the package, right :)?
Dec 12 21:43:29 <RyeBrye> flash_image recovery /sdcard/recovery.img
Dec 12 21:43:38 <d0netsFN> oh i can do it from the sd card?
Dec 12 21:43:39 <RyeBrye> Yeah, they don't care at all
Dec 12 21:43:46 <RyeBrye> d0netsFN: I do it from the SD card all the time
Dec 12 21:43:48 <bgupta_> I did leve special instructions yesterday after the first deliver excpetion... Thinking someone is just being lazy..
Dec 12 21:44:04 <languish> d0netsFN has 0k free in /system
Dec 12 21:44:24 <d0netsFN> yea ryebrye im having issues
Dec 12 21:44:33 <d0netsFN> but that worked what you just told me
Dec 12 21:44:50 <infernix> is the /cache partition ever used on the dev phones, seeing that they won't have OTA updates?
Dec 12 21:44:52 <RyeBrye> I think we discovered some corruption - if /system gets full it can hose things and cause strange errors
Dec 12 21:45:07 <RyeBrye> infernix: apparently /cache is supposed to be used for "other things"
Dec 12 21:45:10 <d0netsFN> shiese, so is there a way to fix it
Dec 12 21:45:31 <RyeBrye> d0netsFN: once you have flashed your recovery image, reboot into recovery and apply JF's modified RC30 updater
Dec 12 21:45:44 <RyeBrye> well.... first download that and push it to your sdcard as "update.zip"
Dec 12 21:45:52 <mikey|> :|
Dec 12 21:45:53 <d0netsFN> its already there
Dec 12 21:46:02 <d0netsFN> i did that earlier but ill try again
Dec 12 21:46:05 <mikey|> somehow my message is being sent to the handler twice
Dec 12 21:46:06 <RyeBrye> that will replace your entire /system and will fix the issue
Dec 12 21:46:08 <mikey|> but only sometimes
Dec 12 21:46:12 <bgupta_> Well the good news is I don't have to sit here anymore... (Pretty sure they aren't trying to deliver as they aren't any door tags for missed delivery)
Dec 12 21:46:15 <mikey|> seems random
Dec 12 21:46:19 <RyeBrye> d0netsFN: you applied that update and you still had 0k on your /system?
Dec 12 21:46:31 <d0netsFN> yea ive applied it twice, lemme try again
Dec 12 21:46:50 <RyeBrye> That's very strange. It reflashes the entire /system - there should be no way it is full after doing that
Dec 12 21:47:15 <bgupta_> Wondering if I can have it dropped off at my local FedEx/Kinkos branch?
Dec 12 21:47:26 <mikey|> the method is only being called once according to log, but it prints the message twice via the handler
Dec 12 21:49:00 <d0netsFN> ryebrye who runs android-dls
Dec 12 21:49:11 <d0netsFN> they need to clean up the wiki
Dec 12 21:49:15 <RyeBrye> DarkriftX does
Dec 12 21:49:22 <d0netsFN> it can send a scatterbrained pothead newb in circles for hours
Dec 12 21:49:24 <RyeBrye> d0netsFN: well... it's a wiki...
Dec 12 21:49:29 <morrildl> is that android-irc client on the Market?
Dec 12 21:49:34 <d0netsFN> no
Dec 12 21:49:34 <RyeBrye> so... :) clean it up! :)
Dec 12 21:49:39 <michaelnovakjr_> morrildl: i don't think so
Dec 12 21:49:44 <d0netsFN> http://androidirc.googlecode.com
Dec 12 21:49:46 <RyeBrye> morrildl: it's on google code
Dec 12 21:49:52 <ivantis> morrildl: use a terminal client through SSH with connectbot, or use mibbit.com's
Dec 12 21:50:00 <brocktice> do you guys know where the default path and such are set?
Dec 12 21:50:06 <brocktice> There's none of the usual stuff in /etc/
Dec 12 21:50:16 <michaelnovakjr_> ivantis the client works fine :)
Dec 12 21:50:28 <ivantis> it does?
Dec 12 21:50:29 <d0netsFN> michaelnovakjr_
Dec 12 21:50:31 <d0netsFN> not 100%
Dec 12 21:50:34 <d0netsFN> but yea it works
Dec 12 21:50:41 <d0netsFN> earlier when i tried the bnc functionality for the first time
Dec 12 21:50:44 <d0netsFN> i got errors 3 times
Dec 12 21:50:45 <michaelnovakjr_> ok, it works fine for me then :)
Dec 12 21:50:47 <d0netsFN> then it just worked
Dec 12 21:51:12 <bgupta_> d0netsFN: What issues in particular are you having with the wiki?
Dec 12 21:51:24 <d0netsFN> well the replacing recovery partition
Dec 12 21:51:26 <d0netsFN> and keeping root
Dec 12 21:51:32 <d0netsFN> do those have redundant info?
Dec 12 21:51:54 <d0netsFN> and then it looks like they say the same thing 3 times
Dec 12 21:53:00 <d0netsFN> i mean i look at it as a list of instructions im supposed to perform
Dec 12 21:53:05 <bgupta_> Well it looks like Replace Recovery Partition is both redundant and needs cleanup... Keeping Root is a solid procedure...
Dec 12 21:53:26 <d0netsFN> right but even keeping root has 3 of the same set of instructions
Dec 12 21:53:31 <d0netsFN> he needs to consolidate them into 1
Dec 12 21:53:45 <bgupta_> ?? where?
Dec 12 21:54:00 <bgupta_> which numbered steps?
Dec 12 21:54:29 <d0netsFN> oh i must have been looking at the replacing recovery partition
Dec 12 21:54:39 <d0netsFN> i think its just the replacing recovery partiton page
Dec 12 21:55:04 <bgupta_> Yeah.. I worked with DarkriftX to clean it up the other day... so I was a bit confused.
Dec 12 21:55:36 <d0netsFN> are they the same thing bg?
Dec 12 21:55:41 <d0netsFN> like if i do "keeping root"
Dec 12 21:55:49 <d0netsFN> do i need to do the replacing recoevery partiton too
Dec 12 21:55:54 <d0netsFN> or is it the same thing
Dec 12 21:56:30 <tripps> what is it with market downloads lately? they just sit there saying downloading and nothing else. I've had a download running for 3 days now
Dec 12 21:56:49 <bgupta_> you don't need replacing recovery partition if you want to root your device, the relevant steps are included in the procedure..
Dec 12 21:56:55 <d0netsFN> tripps lol start it over
Dec 12 21:56:56 <d0netsFN> and try again
Dec 12 21:56:59 <ivantis> how do i fold out the keyboard in the emulator?
Dec 12 21:57:02 <d0netsFN> try 3g, edge, then wifi if you have problems
Dec 12 21:57:10 <brocktice> ivantis, ctrl-f12
Dec 12 21:57:13 <brocktice> or numpad 7
Dec 12 21:57:25 <ivantis2> ah
Dec 12 21:57:27 <d0netsFN> ok bgupta so whats next after keeping root
Dec 12 21:57:46 <ivantis> cool
Dec 12 21:57:57 <ivantis> ivantis2 is using androidircc
Dec 12 21:58:07 <tripps> d0netsFN, cool. seems one download that never completed was blocking the others
Dec 12 21:58:26 <bgupta_> Have you done keeping root?
Dec 12 21:58:32 <d0netsFN> yes
Dec 12 21:58:38 <bgupta_> after keeping root, you want...
Dec 12 21:58:45 <d0netsFN> i did that
Dec 12 21:58:55 <d0netsFN> then i thought replacing the recovery partiton was another step
Dec 12 21:58:57 <d0netsFN> so i continued with that
Dec 12 21:59:03 <bgupta_> not exactly
Dec 12 21:59:12 <d0netsFN> yea i think i realize that now
Dec 12 21:59:14 <d0netsFN> so i have root
Dec 12 21:59:15 <d0netsFN> now what
Dec 12 21:59:17 <bgupta_> See how that is confusing will fix
Dec 12 21:59:26 <ivantis> how do i quit something
Dec 12 21:59:30 <bgupta_> one sec getting you a link for a step currently not in wiki
Dec 12 21:59:50 <ivantis> like how do i quit an application?
Dec 12 22:00:00 <d0netsFN> well ivantis
Dec 12 22:00:03 <heatX> press back till you get to the home screen
Dec 12 22:00:04 <mikey|> hmm...only my coloured/spannablestringbuilder strings are being show twice
Dec 12 22:00:05 <d0netsFN> android kinda keeps things in the background
Dec 12 22:00:08 <bgupta_> This si next: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 Be very careful.
Dec 12 22:00:10 <d0netsFN> but yea hit back till you get to home
Dec 12 22:00:15 <ivantis> heatX: it didnt work
Dec 12 22:00:16 <d0netsFN> or some apps you can hit menu and hit exit
Dec 12 22:00:18 <ivantis> it didnt quit it
Dec 12 22:00:29 <heatX> ivantis: what app?
Dec 12 22:00:33 <ivantis> how do i see open applications?
Dec 12 22:00:37 <ivantis> IRC
Dec 12 22:00:40 <d0netsFN> if you are saying it didnt quit becuaesw you hold home and it still shows, its ok, it will show your last 6 apps in there
Dec 12 22:00:57 <d0netsFN> you can use terminal emulator and do ps
Dec 12 22:01:02 <heatX> if you get task switcher from the market you can see your actual open apps
Dec 12 22:01:06 <ivantis> no
Dec 12 22:01:34 <ivantis> and where is pterminal?
Dec 12 22:02:22 <d0netsFN> i think it was removed
Dec 12 22:02:23 <d0netsFN> hrmm
Dec 12 22:02:25 <d0netsFN> strange
Dec 12 22:02:37 <d0netsFN> look for terminal emulator
Dec 12 22:03:10 <d0netsFN> thanks bgupta_ thats what i was looking for
Dec 12 22:03:11 <ivantis> ivantis2 is still here
Dec 12 22:03:32 <ivantis2> oh
Dec 12 22:03:39 <bgupta_> d0netsFN: Just did some tweaks to the main wiki page.. does it clear things up a bit?
Dec 12 22:03:40 <ivantis2> i guess it just stays logged in
Dec 12 22:06:05 <d0netsFN> thats loads better bgupta
Dec 12 22:07:37 <d0netsFN> no
Dec 12 22:07:40 <d0netsFN> thats not bgupta_
Dec 12 22:08:10 <bgupta_> It's not?
Dec 12 22:08:11 <d0netsFN> Disconnect's isntaructions for installing the engineering bootloader after you have done "keeping root"
Dec 12 22:08:22 <d0netsFN> i think thats Disconnect's Fastboot cheat sheet
Dec 12 22:08:22 <bgupta_> did I put the wrong link?
Dec 12 22:08:49 <bgupta_> Fixed
Dec 12 22:08:53 <bgupta_> wrong link
Dec 12 22:09:02 <bgupta_> thanks for checking
Dec 12 22:09:37 <anno^da_> Is it correct that we can't track the pressing of the call button from a service? (no broadcast gets sent? )
Dec 12 22:10:12 <hitman> does anyone else have a problem with the g1 where the radio is no longer enabled
Dec 12 22:10:35 <hitman> maybe it's just a problem with my signal
Dec 12 22:13:43 <blau-MikeDG> omg
Dec 12 22:14:02 <blau-MikeDG> in my latest app, its mentioned 4 times that you have to disable the normal notification
Dec 12 22:14:03 <bgupta_> blau-MikeDG: Yes?
Dec 12 22:14:10 <blau-MikeDG> and i still am getting emails
Dec 12 22:14:22 <bgupta_> :(
Dec 12 22:15:36 <`krstnsn> .
Dec 12 22:16:10 <mikey|> anyone have any clue why coloured strings would be sent twice to the handler?
Dec 12 22:16:29 <mikey|> everything points to the message being sent one, but it prints it once
Dec 12 22:16:42 <mikey|> i cant even find where the 2nd sendToTarget is sent from
Dec 12 22:17:28 <ivantis> if you get root on a phone, can you add your user to the sudo group?
Dec 12 22:17:59 <`krstnsn> nickserv is weird on here
Dec 12 22:18:52 <brocktice> # for the moment, while debugging dhcpcd, logwrapper is
Dec 12 22:18:52 <brocktice> # used to get its output to appear in the logs. This will
Dec 12 22:18:52 <brocktice> # be removed before shipping.
Dec 12 22:18:52 <brocktice> service dhcpcd /system/bin/logwrapper dhcpcd -d -X tiwlan0
Dec 12 22:18:52 <brocktice>     disabled
Dec 12 22:18:54 <brocktice>     oneshot
Dec 12 22:18:57 <brocktice> heh
Dec 12 22:18:59 <brocktice> from init.trout.rc
Dec 12 22:19:02 <brocktice> on the adp1
Dec 12 22:19:27 <ivantis> my G1 should come within the next 3 hours
Dec 12 22:19:33 <krstnsn`> thats sweet ivantis
Dec 12 22:19:34 <ivantis> s/should/better/
Dec 12 22:19:41 <krstnsn`> oh nm
Dec 12 22:21:47 <brocktice> hmm, can't dd with if=/dev/block/mtdblock5
Dec 12 22:21:50 <brocktice> input/output error
Dec 12 22:29:47 <d0netsFN> ok i solved my problems and flashed the engineering boot loader
Dec 12 22:29:50 <d0netsFN> now how do i reboot haha
Dec 12 22:30:18 <JesusFreke> call + menu + power
Dec 12 22:30:59 <d0netsFN> thanks again
Dec 12 22:33:05 <SanMehat> ivantis: how was the test?
Dec 12 22:33:16 <ivantis> quiz
Dec 12 22:33:22 <SanMehat> quiz?
Dec 12 22:33:24 <ivantis> i think i got all of them right
Dec 12 22:33:36 <SanMehat> like a spelling bee?
Dec 12 22:33:42 <ivantis> kind of...
Dec 12 22:33:45 <ivantis> like a mini test
Dec 12 22:34:24 <ivantis> man when is my G1 gonna get here????
Dec 12 22:34:47 <mikey|> when is it due?
Dec 12 22:35:00 <ivantis> to be delivered?
Dec 12 22:35:01 <ivantis> today
Dec 12 22:35:19 <mikey|> didnt they say between xx and xx?
Dec 12 22:35:40 <dd94300> i have created a simple database with _id is auto increment.....how do i get the value _id ?
Dec 12 22:36:06 <kirberich> ivantis, I feel your pain. My G1 is in a UPS warehouse not even 15 miles from here
Dec 12 22:36:10 <kirberich> and I'll get it on monday.
Dec 12 22:36:17 <mikey|> anyone know what would cause a problem like this: http://www.androidirc.net/scroll.avi
Dec 12 22:36:37 <ivantis> between 9:00 and 19:00
Dec 12 22:37:06 <ivantis> 2.5 hours till 19:00
Dec 12 22:38:16 <d0netsFN> hey should i flash my old g1 with the engineering bootloader before i send it back?
Dec 12 22:38:17 <d0netsFN> lol
Dec 12 22:41:14 <mikey|> anyone know the problem? lol
Dec 12 22:50:03 <BlindOracle> hmmm...my usb stuff flipped out. After I rebooted, I can shell into my g1dev! :) So everything is working at this poing!
Dec 12 22:50:46 * brocktice poings
Dec 12 22:50:52 <BlindOracle> hehe...
Dec 12 22:50:55 <BlindOracle> point! :P
Dec 12 22:54:34 <ITechJunkie> Hey guys, i'm trying to learn a little javax.swing. Can somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong here http://pastebin.com/d58577cdc ?
Dec 12 22:56:15 <tripps> what is the best way to rip a movie for viewing on the G1? ideally keeping high vid quality and stereo would be great (like you get with HD youtube vids over wifi)
Dec 12 22:56:46 <ITechJunkie> tripps: are you runnin a *nix system or windows?
Dec 12 22:57:10 <BlindOracle> me has confirmed root! Ya!
Dec 12 22:57:16 * BlindOracle has confirmed root! Ya!
Dec 12 22:57:36 <tripps> ITechJunkie, linux
Dec 12 22:58:00 <tripps> ITechJunkie, ubuntu hardy heron to be precise
Dec 12 22:58:25 <ITechJunkie> Take a look at this: http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/ should be in the repositories if you're using 8.04
Dec 12 22:59:03 <ITechJunkie> Thats probably one of the best/most complete programs you can get for linux video transcoding
Dec 12 22:59:32 <ITechJunkie> also fairly simple to use. I used it for the new Rambo and Hancock
Dec 12 23:00:18 <RyeBrye> handbrake works too, doesn't it?
Dec 12 23:00:30 <ITechJunkie> RyeBrye: yeah but there is no gui for *nux
Dec 12 23:00:36 <RyeBrye> oh
Dec 12 23:00:39 * ITechJunkie means *nix
Dec 12 23:00:50 <ITechJunkie> yeah, i was bummed when I found that out
Dec 12 23:00:54 <tripps> ITechJunkie, cool - already have it installed :)
Dec 12 23:01:03 <ITechJunkie> tripps: right on
Dec 12 23:01:23 <ITechJunkie> Can anyone answer my question ^^^ I'm stumped.
Dec 12 23:01:41 <brocktice> RyeBrye, I'm not having much luck with handbrake
Dec 12 23:02:00 <brocktice> I use it all of the time for other stuff, but I can't seem to get a balance of quality and playback performance on the G1.
Dec 12 23:02:01 <fadden> ITechJunkie: this might be the wrong place to ask about Swing
Dec 12 23:02:29 <RyeBrye> yeah, someone needs to figure out what the proper settings are for handbrake and then post them somewhere
Dec 12 23:02:59 <brocktice> RyeBrye, I tried with trial and error.
Dec 12 23:03:05 <brocktice> I'm not sure there *are* correct settings.
Dec 12 23:03:17 <brocktice> I re-encoded a chapter like 8 different ways.
Dec 12 23:03:19 <ITechJunkie> fadden: true, I figured i'd give it a shot though. It's probably a simple question cause i'm just now learning java
Dec 12 23:03:38 <brocktice> If it looks good enough, it gets too choppy
Dec 12 23:03:44 <brocktice> if it looks like crap, it's smooth
Dec 12 23:03:57 <brocktice> You'd think with the decoding in hardware it wouldn't be a problem.
Dec 12 23:04:07 <fadden> ITechJunkie: looks like the "action listener" is getting called before the field is initialized.  I don't know enough about Swing to tell you why.
Dec 12 23:04:37 <ITechJunkie> fadden: thanks bro, i'll look deeper into that.
Dec 12 23:04:39 <ivantis2> still waiting
Dec 12 23:04:42 <ivantis2> by the window
Dec 12 23:04:44 <RyeBrye> I wonder if there is something wrong with the drivers it is using now - I thought swetland said the other night he saw crazy some videos of a much higher bitrate playing back without problems
Dec 12 23:04:53 <tripps> ITechJunkie, is there a favored format to use? what app on the G1 would I use to play back?
Dec 12 23:05:00 <[mighty]Mike> is there an app/method to download an arbitrary file from the Internet to my android phone; i want to grab some epub files and have a non-market reader app installed (working), but the browser won't download them as it says the file type isn't supported
Dec 12 23:05:34 <brocktice> Hrm
Dec 12 23:05:54 <brocktice> Either that or handbrake is doing something funny in the advanced options that I don't understand.
Dec 12 23:05:58 <ITechJunkie> tripps: I have used "Video" and "Cinema" on the G1 for playback... as far as the favored format... i think it's like mp4 and something else
Dec 12 23:06:07 <brocktice> ALSO when I encode with x264 it's just green on the screen all of the time.
Dec 12 23:06:11 <ivantis2> when is he going to get here????
Dec 12 23:06:13 <brocktice> ffmpeg works
Dec 12 23:06:19 <ITechJunkie> tripps: if you use the ipod/iphone or psp presets you should be fine
Dec 12 23:06:27 <brocktice> ivantis2 - the moment you have to step out for something.
Dec 12 23:06:38 <ivantis2> oh
Dec 12 23:06:45 <brocktice> It's like food that's taking a while at a restaurant.
Dec 12 23:06:49 <brocktice> won't come till you go to the bathroom
Dec 12 23:07:21 <ivantis2> bah
Dec 12 23:07:24 <brocktice> there are some handbrake instructions here -- I'll try them
Dec 12 23:07:26 <brocktice> http://androidcommunity.com/forums/vbglossar.php?do=showentry&catid=2&id=28
Dec 12 23:08:23 <tripps> ITechJunkie, is that "Video Player" on android market?
Dec 12 23:08:28 <ivantis2> is there a voice recorder yet?
Dec 12 23:08:39 <ITechJunkie> tripps: yeah
Dec 12 23:08:40 <ivantis2> that would be handy in a few classes
Dec 12 23:09:25 <ITechJunkie> tripps: You want some help transcoding your movie?
Dec 12 23:09:38 <tripps> ITechJunkie, cool so select IPOD from the Auto menu in avidemux and let 'er rip, eh?
Dec 12 23:10:00 <ITechJunkie> tripps: hang on a sec... i think you need to select a specific audio codec too
Dec 12 23:10:02 <tripps> ITechJunkie, I've done it before (mythtv, transcode command, etc.), so hopefully it should work for me
Dec 12 23:10:16 <tripps> ok
Dec 12 23:11:43 <tripps> ITechJunkie, looks like Video supports mp3, aac or AMR audio
Dec 12 23:12:03 <ITechJunkie> tripps: okay, select aac. That should work for you
Dec 12 23:12:28 <ITechJunkie> tripps: I don't actually have any movies on this machine so I couldn't see those options lol
Dec 12 23:15:22 <ITechJunkie> Are there any good places to get apps that aren't actually out on the market yet?
Dec 12 23:15:28 <mikey|> does anyone else find their messages are double posted on the and dev grp
Dec 12 23:16:47 <[mighty]Mike> any thoughts on a way to download a file to android that the browser doesn't think the phone supports
Dec 12 23:17:43 <mikey|> create an app which pretends to be able to handle a file type?
Dec 12 23:19:12 <[mighty]Mike> hmm;  that's a bit beyond my capabilities at this point, though I do hope to learn how to do that in the future  :-)
Dec 12 23:19:25 <[mighty]Mike> i was curious if any one knew of an existing workaround or app to do it
Dec 12 23:19:32 <[mighty]Mike> like curl for android
Dec 12 23:19:34 <[mighty]Mike> or wget
Dec 12 23:19:37 <[mighty]Mike> something like that
Dec 12 23:19:52 <[mighty]Mike> i'm a sysadmin, not a developer (yet)
Dec 12 23:22:04 <vol> probably wouldn't be hard at all to code up
Dec 12 23:22:13 <vol> in fact I'd say it's pretty trivial
Dec 12 23:22:38 <vol> and if I was not so lazy, I would do it for you :D
Dec 12 23:22:56 <vol> sigh
Dec 12 23:22:58 <vol> damnit gdb.
Dec 12 23:23:04 <JesusFreke> mike, if you have my modified update, it has the busybox binary, which I *think* has wget
Dec 12 23:23:05 <vol> I want you to CATCH SIGTRAP
Dec 12 23:23:26 <JesusFreke> I don't remember for sure, and  Ican't check atm
Dec 12 23:23:44 <vol> the version of busybox I have has it
Dec 12 23:23:46 <vol> so yours might too
Dec 12 23:24:16 <[mighty]Mike> JesusFreke: what update is that, sorry, new to the channel and my android phone
Dec 12 23:24:18 <JesusFreke> also, if you have issues with busybox's wget, you might try by IP instead of domain name
Dec 12 23:24:23 <RyeBrye>  http://android.alltop.com/ is a pretty cool page
Dec 12 23:24:29 <[mighty]Mike> JesusFreke: k, thanks fo rthe tip
Dec 12 23:24:29 <JesusFreke> mike: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713
Dec 12 23:25:09 <[mighty]Mike> thanks for the link RyeBrye
Dec 12 23:25:39 <RyeBrye> you probably meant to thank JF
Dec 12 23:25:46 <laura--> Hey.. what happened to the USB Windows driver for Android?  I no longer see it on Google's site
Dec 12 23:25:49 <RyeBrye> but you are welcome
Dec 12 23:26:20 <JesusFreke> laura--: http://dl.google.com/android/android_usb_windows.zip
Dec 12 23:26:34 <JesusFreke> and yeah, they've taken the link off the page it used to be on, for some reason
Dec 12 23:26:39 <vol> laura--: use google's cache of that page
Dec 12 23:26:40 <richy> Need Uk F2008 Email List
Dec 12 23:26:43 <vol> ... or that
Dec 12 23:26:45 <JesusFreke> but the file's still there
Dec 12 23:26:45 <laura--> whew!
Dec 12 23:26:47 <laura--> Thanks
Dec 12 23:26:49 <vol> richy: huh?
Dec 12 23:26:51 <laura--> Why on earth did they remove it?
Dec 12 23:26:52 <richy> inbox smtp
Dec 12 23:26:56 <richy> inbox mailer
Dec 12 23:26:59 <JesusFreke> no clue laura
Dec 12 23:27:03 <JesusFreke> probably a mistake
Dec 12 23:27:04 <richy> c99
Dec 12 23:27:09 <RyeBrye> pobably a conspiracy
Dec 12 23:27:24 <vol> someone told me that page was removed by mistake
Dec 12 23:27:30 <d0netsFN> c99?
Dec 12 23:27:33 <d0netsFN> i have c99
Dec 12 23:28:04 <jbq_> I'll guess that it was removed because it's now officially part of the SDK.
Dec 12 23:28:20 <ivantis2> someone here: what time did your G1 get to your house from UPS?
Dec 12 23:28:56 <orospakr> ivantis2, not until Monday for me.  But I'm in Canada.
Dec 12 23:28:56 <laura--> You mean I might not have to use that to connect via USB?
Dec 12 23:29:09 <vol> he's looking for spamming programs, d0netsFN
Dec 12 23:29:15 <laura--> If so, that'd be great.. although I'm on a 64x Windows box, so I don't know if any of this is a possibilty, anyways :)
Dec 12 23:29:22 <ivantis2> orospakr, i mean what time of day?
Dec 12 23:29:25 <d0netsFN> oh
Dec 12 23:29:32 <d0netsFN> i thought he was talking about the cannabis strain
Dec 12 23:29:33 <vol> laura--: iirc, you need the driver to do debugging on device
Dec 12 23:29:33 <d0netsFN> lulz
Dec 12 23:29:34 <jbq_> uh, no driver for 64-bit WIndows :(
Dec 12 23:29:44 <vol> but you can still mount the device's sd card via usb
Dec 12 23:29:52 <jbq_> laura--: you don't need the driver to transfer files, like vol just said.
Dec 12 23:30:11 <laura--> I see... just no debugging then
Dec 12 23:30:12 <orospakr> ivantis2, dunno, but our UPS shipments tend to come around lunchtime (annoyingly)
Dec 12 23:30:22 <orospakr> iirc
Dec 12 23:30:25 <vol> if you need to debug on device, you're going to have to make a linux partition (or use a 32 bit win distro)
Dec 12 23:30:31 <ivantis2> its almost 6 here
Dec 12 23:30:44 <orospakr> d0netsFN, ISO C, standardized in 1999. :P
Dec 12 23:30:46 <laura--> blarg :(
Dec 12 23:30:56 <vol> alternately, borrow someone's laptop :>
Dec 12 23:31:07 <vol> (You'll give it back, honest!)
Dec 12 23:31:11 <laura--> lol
Dec 12 23:31:33 <mreimer> Is anyone here running Android on a pxa device, particularly pxa320?
Dec 12 23:32:20 * orospakr not-so-fondly remembers the PXA250 in his Toshiba e740 palmtop.
Dec 12 23:32:41 <tmzt_> mreimer: someone else was, haven't seen them for awhile
Dec 12 23:33:05 <orospakr> hmm, my ADP1 will be the first palmtop I've had since then. :)
Dec 12 23:33:39 <morrildl> ADP1
Dec 12 23:33:45 <morrildl> Heh, I didn't expect that acronym
Dec 12 23:33:47 <morrildl> I guess I should have
Dec 12 23:33:53 <morrildl> well all call it the devphone
Dec 12 23:33:55 <orospakr> people keep calling it that. :P
Dec 12 23:33:56 <orospakr> heh
Dec 12 23:33:59 <orospakr> devphone does sound cooler.
Dec 12 23:34:17 <morrildl> It will drive xsdg insane though
Dec 12 23:34:37 <jbq_> morrildl: too late!
Dec 12 23:34:51 <jbq_> (xsdg is already insane)
Dec 12 23:34:56 <morrildl> jbq_: true.
Dec 12 23:38:15 <orospakr> xsdg?
Dec 13 00:10:51 <BlindOracle> where do you copy mp3s to make them visible?
Dec 13 00:11:23 <heatX> anywhere
Dec 13 00:12:17 <BlindOracle> heatX: don't seem to be visible on /sdcard
Dec 13 00:12:29 <JesusFreke> blindoracle, mount the sdcard to your computer, and then unmount it
Dec 13 00:12:31 <ivantis2> yesyesyeywseesyyesyesyse!!!!!!
Dec 13 00:12:39 <ivantis2> i finally just now got my G1 from UPS
Dec 13 00:12:41 <JesusFreke> it only scans when you unmount, or something like that
Dec 13 00:12:48 <JesusFreke> ivantis, nice :). G1 or ADP1?
Dec 13 00:12:51 <BlindOracle> JesusFreke: I adb pushed the mp3s to my g1
Dec 13 00:13:06 <BlindOracle> JesusFreke: does it need to be remounted to be detected?
Dec 13 00:13:08 <JesusFreke> blind, exactly. It only scans for new mp3s when you unmount it from your computer
Dec 13 00:13:14 <BlindOracle> JesusFreke: ok
Dec 13 00:13:39 <ivantis2> JesusFreke, G1
Dec 13 00:14:15 <JesusFreke> ivantis: cool. did you get lucky and get RC28/29?
Dec 13 00:15:20 <richy> I am looking for uk email addresses
Dec 13 00:15:26 <richy> about 20,000
Dec 13 00:15:37 <ivantis2> JesusFreke, how can i tell?
Dec 13 00:15:50 <JesusFreke> ivantis, go ahead an register, and then check settings->about phone
Dec 13 00:15:54 <JesusFreke> and scroll to the bottom
Dec 13 00:16:00 <ivantis2> kay
Dec 13 00:16:04 <ivantis2> im registering
Dec 13 00:16:14 <BlindOracle> JesusFreke: as root I unmounted...seems there is no fstab so simply mount didn't work. What's the trick? It refuses to remount
Dec 13 00:17:06 <JesusFreke> BlirdOracle, plug in the phone with the usb cable, and then click "mount sdcard" in the notification that pops up
Dec 13 00:17:13 <BlindOracle> mount -t vfat -orw,dirsync,nosuid,nodev,noexec,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0711,dmask=0700,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,utf8 /dev/block/mmcblk0p1 /sdcard does not work
Dec 13 00:17:14 <JesusFreke> and then just pull the plug
Dec 13 00:17:15 <BlindOracle> ok
Dec 13 00:18:35 <BlindOracle> that's very odd way of doing it, but it worked. Thanks
Dec 13 00:18:42 <JesusFreke> heh. yeah. a bit screwy
Dec 13 00:18:54 <JesusFreke> it's only way I know of to get it to scan for mp3s though.
Dec 13 00:19:21 <BlindOracle> JesusFreke: any idea why mount fails as root?!?
Dec 13 00:20:35 <JesusFreke> dunno
Dec 13 00:21:08 <ivantis2> aw
Dec 13 00:21:12 <ivantis2> RC30
Dec 13 00:21:18 <BlindOracle> just fyi, it reports back, "[1] + Stopped (signal)   " and there is no background job...it just fails
Dec 13 00:21:45 <heatX> ivantis: damn!
Dec 13 00:21:49 <BlindOracle> well...I'm off to Christmas party...have fun and good weekends guys. Thanks for the help
Dec 13 00:21:50 <JesusFreke> doh :(
Dec 13 00:21:55 <JesusFreke> later BlindOracle
Dec 13 00:22:58 <ivantis2> now
Dec 13 00:23:06 <ivantis2> how do i load an application onto my phone?
Dec 13 00:23:12 <heatX> market
Dec 13 00:58:33 * jasta is having a GREAT day :)
Dec 13 00:58:43 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Dec 13 00:59:08 * jbq is having a bad day :(
Dec 13 01:00:06 <jasta> mike: privmsg (your underscore nick)
Dec 13 01:08:38 <sparkle> whew
Dec 13 01:13:01 <danfuzz> blort
Dec 13 01:26:35 <brocktice> Is there some way to get the amazon apk for the devphone?
Dec 13 01:26:46 <brocktice> rc30 zip maybe?
Dec 13 01:27:03 <michaelnovakjr> you could try to pull it off a G1
Dec 13 01:27:13 <brocktice> Yeah I'll see if I can do that
Dec 13 01:27:28 <JesusFreke> brock, it should work
Dec 13 01:27:34 <michaelnovakjr> it'll only work for US accounts i think though
Dec 13 01:27:41 <brocktice> I just gave my old one to my wife so I'll borrow it for a minute :)
Dec 13 01:27:45 <JesusFreke> yeah, I had heard something about that
Dec 13 01:27:59 <chouman82> hey guys i am having a problem with Geocoder.getFromLocationName
Dec 13 01:28:01 <michaelnovakjr> brocktice: you have a US account"
Dec 13 01:28:04 <chouman82> it doesn't return anything to me
Dec 13 01:28:06 <_avatar> yeah, it will only work in the US
Dec 13 01:28:19 <chouman82> yea i am in the us
Dec 13 01:28:35 <_avatar> chouman82: sorry, i was talking to brocktice
Dec 13 01:28:40 <chouman82> oh ok
Dec 13 01:29:06 <brocktice> michaelnovakjr yep
Dec 13 01:29:18 <michaelnovakjr> cool, it should work then
Dec 13 01:29:20 <chouman82> anyone know about GeoCoder?
Dec 13 01:29:32 <brocktice> Just hooked up the G1 to usb
Dec 13 01:29:46 <michaelnovakjr> chouman82: are you on a device or emulator?
Dec 13 01:29:52 <chouman82> device
Dec 13 01:30:14 <michaelnovakjr> do you have the correct permissions in your manifest?
Dec 13 01:30:25 <chouman82> yea i have the internet, and fine location
Dec 13 01:31:18 <brocktice> well, that was easy
Dec 13 01:31:21 <brocktice> Thanks, guys
Dec 13 01:31:26 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Dec 13 01:31:39 <brocktice> Works like a charm
Dec 13 01:31:51 <michaelnovakjr> cool, good to know
Dec 13 01:31:57 <JesusFreke> brock, you can do the same thing with the voice dialer
Dec 13 01:32:05 <brocktice> Good
Dec 13 01:32:10 <brocktice> Hopefully with YouTube and whatnot.
Dec 13 01:32:19 <brocktice> So if I do a custom image I can still have that stuff.
Dec 13 01:32:34 <michaelnovakjr> looks like it
Dec 13 01:32:54 <brocktice> rock
Dec 13 01:33:12 <michaelnovakjr> so no root hack for ota rc30?
Dec 13 01:33:47 <JesusFreke> nope
Dec 13 01:34:04 <JesusFreke> you would know if there was :p
Dec 13 01:34:17 <michaelnovakjr> :) it would be nice
Dec 13 01:34:51 <RyeBrye> No. I suspect all the ones that would be likely to be working really hard at it have retained root from preRC30 - sure... there is still some tinkering, but it's not vigorous
Dec 13 01:35:31 <RyeBrye> having a reasonably priced dev phone also means that future people that might be interested are probably not going to bang at it as hard
Dec 13 01:35:58 <RyeBrye> I think Tmobile is still shipping with RC29 for some people
Dec 13 01:36:37 <Fredbo> a friend of mine picked one up in Portland with rc30
Dec 13 01:36:43 <chouman82> so no idea why geocoder.getfromlocationname doens't work ?
Dec 13 01:37:20 <Fredbo> so the pre 30 stock is starting to run out
Dec 13 01:37:42 <RyeBrye> chuck: nope
Dec 13 01:37:55 <RyeBrye> sorry chuck... I meant chouman82
Dec 13 01:40:42 <chuck> RyeBrye, ;-)
Dec 13 01:45:14 <Lieutenant> hey, i dont know if its possible, but would it be possible to make some sort of app or SOMETHING that makes like the very left 10 pixels of the screen a volume control knob scroll deal? like have it invisible but when you slide your finger on the left side of the screen, a little thin bar pops up that u can scroll up and down on with your finger to raise/lower the volume while doing whatever on the phone, once u set it, it'll f
Dec 13 01:45:30 <Lieutenant> ....................while doing whatever on the phone, once u set it, it'll fade back to being invisible (yeah i know its VERY unneccessary becuse there are buttons RIGHT there lol, but i'm still wondering if its possible)
Dec 13 01:45:35 <Lieutenant> ^^^ it probably cut off somewhere there.
Dec 13 01:48:24 * sparkle nods
Dec 13 01:48:34 <sparkle> changing screen brightness would be even handier :)
Dec 13 02:03:24 <jsharkey> hmm
Dec 13 02:03:42 <jsharkey> i cant get this transitiondrawable to paint itself during an ongoing touch event
Dec 13 02:03:59 <jsharkey> but it transitions fine during an ongoing keyevent
Dec 13 02:44:03 <mib_n9wia2> i cant find the irc client in the market
Dec 13 02:44:23 <Acidulous> I thought there wasn't one in the market
Dec 13 02:44:45 <Acidulous> I downloaded from here: http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk
Dec 13 02:44:46 <mib_n9wia2> thot there was..
Dec 13 02:45:01 <Acidulous> just type that url in your browser, it'll download and you can install
Dec 13 02:48:06 <ivantis2> aha
Dec 13 02:48:12 <ivantis2> got it
Dec 13 02:48:49 <ivantis2> how do i see my open windows in android?
Dec 13 02:50:52 <ivantis2> ?
Dec 13 02:50:54 <Nafai> ivantis2: Hold down home for a couple seconds and it will pop up a task switcher
Dec 13 02:51:41 <ivantis2> cool
Dec 13 02:52:06 <ivantis2> now how do i close them?
Dec 13 02:57:27 <forwhom> how is the T-1 android?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 13 03:00:03 2008