**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 15 02:59:57 2008 Dec 15 03:00:03 open the notification, and press the "mount" button Dec 15 03:00:10 bob_: Yeah, what JesusFreke said. Dec 15 03:00:30 bingo, that did it. Many thanks!!! Dec 15 03:00:33 unix_infidel: they're sending text messages with a long string of numbers to my cellphone everytime i have a voice mail Dec 15 03:00:54 there a way to make the number pad not lock every 2 seconds? kinda annoying using t-mobile's voice mail service with it locking so much :/ Dec 15 03:01:31 yeah i think the phone should hold a wake lock when that is up Dec 15 03:02:27 Is there quake 2 for the android? Dec 15 03:02:52 not yet, no Dec 15 03:02:57 ok, I'm confused and need help...I've been looking and can't find anything, probably because I'm looking wrong....is there a magic switch to make a LinearLayout scrollable vertically? Dec 15 03:03:01 if there's not, there should be! :) Dec 15 03:03:17 they ported quake 1 i think Dec 15 03:03:19 ismarc: no, use a scrollview. Dec 15 03:03:20 I guess it could be ported. Dec 15 03:03:26 but quake 1 has been ported to everything already Dec 15 03:03:29 even the DS Dec 15 03:03:34 jasta: bah, I don't wanna completely rewrite the email views :( Dec 15 03:03:45 anyone know, how similar is Brew to what is running on the g1? Dec 15 03:03:55 then dont. wrap them in a scrollview. Dec 15 03:04:32 jasta: that'd work...I've been trying really hard to just have improvements+bugfixes rather than drastic changes to underlying email stuff Dec 15 03:05:19 What are you doing exactly? Dec 15 03:05:53 when in landscape mode, not all the account setup screens scroll, so the button is offscreen and unclickable Dec 15 03:06:37 what screen in particular? Dec 15 03:06:54 the last screen is the biggest issue Dec 15 03:07:17 had 2 people comment on k9 so far that couldn't figure out how to complete the process because they were in landscape mode Dec 15 03:07:30 i just smoothed my fingers with sandpaper, much smoother screen-scrolling Dec 15 03:08:20 so just wrap them like the other layouts do Dec 15 03:08:53 yeah, gonna do that, I just hadn't messed with any UI stuff for android yet, been doing all back-end work Dec 15 03:08:56 i had a cool idea: layered backgrounds Dec 15 03:09:28 like how the apps and bakground are on different layers Dec 15 03:09:44 they scroll faster or slower Dec 15 03:10:02 speaking of sanding fingers, is there any way to 'calibrate' the touch screen? Mine seems to be off? Dec 15 03:10:46 weird Dec 15 03:11:02 maybe something in settings Dec 15 03:13:03 bobE Dec 15 03:13:28 bob_, maybe your touch sensor got shifted Dec 15 03:15:31 there are apparently a small number of defective phones Dec 15 03:15:40 i don't think there's any way for a user to calibrate it Dec 15 03:15:45 It's not off by a ton, but always seems to be selecting about 1/2 a finger lower than I'm trying to hit. Annoying. Woudl be nice if there was a program tha showed a cross hairs on where it thinks you are touching. Dec 15 03:16:15 just tow red lines on a black background. the lines extending over the whole screen. Dec 15 03:17:02 how annoying Dec 15 03:17:35 but maybe it is the sensor shifted Dec 15 03:17:54 the sensor is the glass afaik Dec 15 03:18:11 would be kinda hard for that to be shifted Dec 15 03:18:15 ok, so no calibration. Dec 15 03:18:26 if you look at it from the side when its off, you can see this grid thing Dec 15 03:18:38 under the glass Dec 15 03:18:41 so, do we have android dev images for g1's yet? Dec 15 03:18:47 i think Dec 15 03:18:54 ivantis2: afaik, it *is* the glass, the glass is laminated Dec 15 03:19:13 maqr: yes, but you need a rooted g1 to use them Dec 15 03:19:33 zinx: i have that, i've got JesusFreke's rc30 image Dec 15 03:19:40 glass? i think it goes deeper than that Dec 15 03:19:43 zinx: i'm wondering if there's any advantage to reflashing with a dev image Dec 15 03:19:58 no cool glass could feel Dec 15 03:20:44 okay, i got some homework to do Dec 15 03:20:57 hope its a snow day Dec 15 03:21:12 * ivantis2 is out. Dec 15 03:22:28 maqr, here's the dev image: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/13 Dec 15 03:22:46 maqr: but there's not much advantage to flashing it Dec 15 03:23:14 maqr: it's pretty similar to RC8. no voice dialing, only gtalk im provider, etc. Dec 15 03:23:27 JesusFreke: oh, that isn't better at all then Dec 15 03:23:28 maqr: the main difference is that it has su out of the box Dec 15 03:23:28 JesusFreke: How's it going? (I finally got my ADP1 on the third delivery attempt.) Dec 15 03:23:35 JesusFreke: good to know though Dec 15 03:23:38 bgupta_: nice! Dec 15 03:24:24 JesusFreke: Do you have instructions posted somewhere on how to make custom firmware? (It would be a good link for the FAQ.) Dec 15 03:25:27 bob_: try moving your finger around the edges of the screen Dec 15 03:25:42 bgupta_: nope, I don't Dec 15 03:25:45 bob_: and also, it is integrated.. not multiple pieces :/ Dec 15 03:25:59 well the LCD is a separate piece, but that doesn't matter Dec 15 03:28:56 JesusFreke: no web'n'walk for UK, no myfaves for US. dev has that advantage Dec 15 03:29:09 so its kind of preferable if not on a t-mo subscription Dec 15 03:29:38 infernix: true. but you can just delete web'n'walk Dec 15 03:29:51 true. not as bad as myfaves Dec 15 03:29:56 yup Dec 15 03:30:38 about the only functionality I care about that it's missing is the voice dialer Dec 15 03:30:46 Hey I'm looking for an extended battery for the G1. After some googling this is the best info I could come up with. (And I'm not very happy with what I found). I'm wondering if this is the latest word http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_Are_there_any_extended_batteries_available_for_the_G1.3F Dec 15 03:30:47 that can be added right? Dec 15 03:30:47 but that can be copied from RC30 easily Dec 15 03:31:15 zinx: thanks Dec 15 03:31:49 bob_: did it work, or just thanking for suggestion? (was a guess of what might cause the synaptics stuff to recalibrate) Dec 15 03:33:37 Zinx: I dont know for sure. I tried coming in from the edges and it seems to be detecting everything fine. Dec 15 03:33:45 cool Dec 15 03:34:15 zinx: I was noticing a problem when in the web browser, earlier today, and trying to fill in form values and switch form fields. Dec 15 03:34:42 hi Dec 15 03:35:24 hi. Dec 15 03:35:25 well, I'm night nite. nite nite. Thanks JesusFreke for the usb disk pointer. Dec 15 03:35:48 JesusFreke: Is this answer to the question "What is the difference between the G1 and the ADP1 accurate?"? http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_difference_between_the_G1_and_the_ADP1_.28Android_Dev_Phone_1.29.3F Dec 15 03:37:21 is anyone familiar with how 'number porting' actually works? is it instant? Dec 15 03:37:31 yes, that sounds right bgupta Dec 15 03:38:14 maqr: a friend of mine moved from AT&T to T-mobile for the G1 and did the number porting Dec 15 03:38:37 maqr: less than 24 hours after he signed up and told t-mobile to move his number, the AT&T phone stopped working Dec 15 03:38:47 ismarc: did the t-mo phone work instantly though? Dec 15 03:39:14 maqr: It took about 24 hours for me. Dec 15 03:39:36 My t-mobile phone worked instantly for me on a temporary number Dec 15 03:39:56 I ported from Verizon to tmo Dec 15 03:40:18 interesting Dec 15 03:40:29 is there some master porting database somewhere?? Dec 15 03:40:40 i don't understand how they keep it all straight Dec 15 03:40:46 ANother FAQ question for the room regarding the behavior of the side volume control. I took a stab at answering the question... I need someone who knows how it works to confirm (My answer is based on observation).: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_When_we_press_side_keys_for_the_volume.2C_does_it_also_make_respective_changes_in_volume_for_call_and_music.3F_If_not.2C_how_does_it_work.3F Dec 15 03:41:01 maqr: as soon as he got it it did Dec 15 03:41:07 maqr: but that took like almost a week Dec 15 03:41:30 bgupta_, I think that's answered in the booklet that comes with the phone Dec 15 03:41:32 not sure, though Dec 15 03:41:50 KNY.. ok got to dig it up.. Dec 15 03:44:56 Cool. :) That made me think of another question for the FAQ: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_Where_can_I_download_a_copy_of_the_G1_manual.3F Dec 15 03:48:39 KNY: Sadly the only mention of the Volume Keys in the G1 manual states: While receiving incoming call, press either (+) or (-) to silence the ringer." :( Dec 15 03:48:52 ah, my bad Dec 15 03:52:50 KNY: I updated the answer: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_When_we_press_side_keys_for_the_volume.2C_does_it_also_make_respective_changes_in_volume_for_call_and_music.3F_If_not.2C_how_does_it_work.3F I think my answer is right. Dec 15 03:53:47 holy crap Dec 15 04:04:26 hey guys, is anyone familiar with changing system settings? I can't figure out how to toggle bluetooth on/off Dec 15 04:04:52 settings->wireless->bluetooth? Dec 15 04:05:15 Hey folks, what's the best way of doing asynchronous HTTP requests? I know a little while ago using UserTask.java was the way to do it. Dec 15 04:05:26 Is this still true? Dec 15 04:05:55 JesusFreke: sorry, I meant within an application Dec 15 04:06:25 ah Dec 15 04:06:35 tried using System.Settings.putInt but had no luck Dec 15 04:06:35 dunno then, sorry. hehe Dec 15 04:06:47 its cool lol Dec 15 04:24:13 what is fastboot? what should I have installed on my computer to make use of it? Dec 15 04:24:56 bert0: See FAQ: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_What_is_fastboot.3F Dec 15 04:25:34 I saw that Dec 15 04:25:43 it's not very descriptive Dec 15 04:28:19 I guess what I'm looking for is instructions on building the fastboot client that Disconnect talks about at http://www.gotontheinter.net/fastboot Dec 15 04:31:58 anyone got any cool splashes to replace the t-mobile g1 one with? Dec 15 04:32:06 what does the adp1 have? :) Dec 15 04:33:26 a freakin' awesome back cover! :D Dec 15 04:33:45 the splash is just the same android screen Dec 15 04:35:25 it wouldn't say "t-mobile g1" though.. just andoird? Dec 15 04:35:26 err android Dec 15 04:35:38 just android Dec 15 04:35:59 ahh ok cos my g1 says android too.. but after the initial splash screen Dec 15 04:35:59 it has the same android screen, in place of the G1 stceen on the G1 Dec 15 04:36:19 right... thats a bit boring.. it should say Google ADP1 Dec 15 04:36:20 yeah, that same android graphic in both places Dec 15 04:36:23 or something like that Dec 15 04:37:01 i might make mine say "T-Mobile sux" Dec 15 04:38:35 bert0: Ah ok.. If I understand correctly, if you compile the entire ANdroid source tree you will make a fastboot binary... Do you need instructions for that? Dec 15 04:41:44 bert0: You want to install repo, so you can download the source, and then Build the code: http://source.android.com/download Dec 15 04:42:22 bert0: THis should build you, among other things, a fastboot binary on your PC. Dec 15 04:42:29 be warned, it's not a short process :) Dec 15 04:42:49 an hour to download everything, and another hour to build Dec 15 04:42:51 :) No it's not.. Dec 15 04:43:04 ANd that's assuming you don't run into any issues. Dec 15 04:43:42 I tried to build a windows fast-boot binary, but it didn't work :( Dec 15 04:43:51 I got the binary built.. but it just wouldn't see the device Dec 15 04:44:59 JesusFreke: VMWare? ;) Dec 15 04:45:11 can't get it to work from vmware either Dec 15 04:45:16 I had to use my olpc :p Dec 15 04:45:16 bummer Dec 15 04:45:25 lol, that's awesome Dec 15 04:45:35 (Well still a bummer) Dec 15 04:45:51 the google guys said they were going to release a windows binary Dec 15 04:46:00 so I'll just use my olpc until then :) Dec 15 04:47:10 JesusFreke: Adding an FAQ question: What OSes does fastboot support? A: Currently Linux and Mac OS X. Work is underway to release a Windows binary. (Sound reasonable?) Dec 15 04:48:04 http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_What_OSes_does_fastboot_support.3F Dec 15 04:48:15 bgupta_, yup Dec 15 04:49:58 bert0: Updated the FAQ question here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_What_is_fastboot.3F please let me know whether or not this updated FAQ answers your fastboot questions. Dec 15 04:50:47 It's better Dec 15 04:50:57 I had a quick question - I'm on r30 and I wanna get curl running - is there an easy way to do that? Do I have to have root access for it? Dec 15 04:51:46 bert0: I just mad a clarification that should indicate to the reader that fastboot is a binary that runs on the PC: A: A reflash protocol for android devices, or source code at http://tinyurl.com/57nusq, or cheat sheet at http://www.gotontheinter.net/fastboot To get a fastboot binary that you can run on your PC, follow the directions for building Android here: http://source.android.com/download (It will take you a long time to downl Dec 15 04:53:30 nickd8301: root certainly would give you more options. What are you trying to do with curl? Dec 15 04:53:39 so it's for installing custom versions of Android to the phone Dec 15 04:53:59 my university has a login for the wireless, they have a shortcut to get through it with curl Dec 15 04:54:12 just wanna shortcut the whole process Dec 15 04:54:20 bert0: yeah mostly... I should clarify that you need an ENgineering bootloader to get it to work. Dec 15 04:54:53 nickd: you can probably get it working. on RC30, you can copy native binaries to /data/local and run them from there Dec 15 04:55:11 nickd8301: but you'll have to cross-compile curl for ARM Dec 15 04:55:13 nickd8301: You can build native code for an Android without root, you would just be limited on installation options Dec 15 04:55:54 nickd: Check this out and see if it helps: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_Does_Android_support_writing_native_applications.3F Dec 15 04:56:17 AH nice :-) thanks all for the help, I'll try that Dec 15 04:56:52 what is the advantage of using fastboot instead of update.zip + testkeys can you go back to previous versions? Dec 15 04:57:29 hey does the maker of droidftp hang out in here? Dec 15 04:57:36 bert0: yes, there is no signature checking for fastboot. also, it's useful if you hose both your boot and recovery partitions at the same time :) Dec 15 04:57:38 i wish there was a que monitor for it Dec 15 04:57:48 maybe if they could have it pop up in the notifications pane, thatd be awsome Dec 15 04:58:29 so there is less chance of bricking the phone? Dec 15 04:58:34 bgupta_ you might add a blurb about being able to run native binaries from /data/local on RC30. afaik, that's the only location you can upload to and execute from Dec 15 04:59:08 anyone using fbreaderj ? Dec 15 04:59:17 how do i convert books to the formats it supports? Dec 15 05:01:37 I'm using it Dec 15 05:01:43 wastrel: What is your source format? Dec 15 05:02:24 I think calibre is meant to work, but I don't use that... Dec 15 05:02:59 clit produces oeb files which should work... otherwise, all you need is HTML and a very simple oeb index Dec 15 05:03:15 .txt Dec 15 05:03:42 er, opf not oeb - the names are confusing Dec 15 05:04:47 wastrel: try a variant of http://paste.pocoo.org/show/95417/ - I'm reading that book right now Dec 15 05:05:51 Personally I am waiting for mobi format support. (I converted everything to mobi already, and don't want to go through the pain of converting again) Dec 15 05:06:13 I far prefer to use an open format Dec 15 05:06:16 yah Dec 15 05:06:30 fbreader supports plucker format Dec 15 05:06:33 that would be awesome Dec 15 05:06:38 HTML with a little XML metadata file works for me Dec 15 05:06:46 Leeds: you try the new gmail pdf suppoprt? Dec 15 05:06:53 wastrel: erm... fbreaderj supports plucker format too :-) Dec 15 05:06:59 does it? Dec 15 05:07:02 Leeds try googling for that... nice porn results come back. :) I use mobi non-DRM because it is supported on so many platforms Dec 15 05:07:03 tr yit Dec 15 05:07:04 try it Dec 15 05:07:06 as in plucker pdb? Dec 15 05:07:21 bgupta: google for what? Dec 15 05:07:23 wasabi: yes Dec 15 05:07:29 ok fuck that's it Dec 15 05:07:35 Leeds: clit Dec 15 05:07:40 argh wastel Dec 15 05:07:43 wastrel! Dec 15 05:07:45 i forgive you ;] Dec 15 05:07:54 bgupta: do you know what clit is? Dec 15 05:08:01 Yeah.. Dec 15 05:08:04 unix_infidel: nope... and it wouldn't have solved my problem from the other week anywya Dec 15 05:08:16 Unfortunate name Dec 15 05:08:23 gimp being another Dec 15 05:08:29 and I think you'll find 'HTML' is more widely support on more platforms than "mobi non-DRM" Dec 15 05:09:39 leeds: You are of course referring to this, no? http://www.convertlit.com/ Dec 15 05:09:50 indeed Dec 15 05:09:58 first launch of fbreaderj 0.2.2 -> crash ;] Dec 15 05:10:15 yeah, the thing as a whole is not entirely stable - or fast - but it does work Dec 15 05:10:58 Well, fbreader is relatively new on the scene.. in the old days, I could get a mobi reader for Windows Mobile, PalmOS, Symbian and Blackberry... in addition FBReader supports mobi as well... (I have actually bought ebooks)... Dec 15 05:11:33 In addition the iRex iLiad supports mobipocket DRM and non-DRM books natively Dec 15 05:11:45 anyone know of a fairly involved writeup of 3G tethering with connectbot on the G1. Looking for user experience stuff as opposed to "How-To" stuff. Dec 15 05:11:58 so for me, mobi had the most critical mass in the mobile space. Dec 15 05:12:48 I swore never to buy another e-book in a closed format after being burned when I moved away from PalmOS (the first time, in 2000 or so) by losing the books I'd bought from peanut press (I think) Dec 15 05:12:55 unix_infidel: Seems that tethering throughput is limited to ~80kbps. That's all I have heard. Dec 15 05:13:25 not sure if anyone has gotten it working with connectbot. DId you try #connectbot? Dec 15 05:14:03 and I doubt fbreader supports DRMed mobi Dec 15 05:14:55 Leeds: That's totally fine. I removed all the DRM to make my life easier. Dec 15 05:15:09 * JesusFreke gasps Dec 15 05:15:13 I'm not aware of any way to remove mobi DRM... Dec 15 05:15:15 you did WHAT!? :D Dec 15 05:15:17 There is a python script floating out there to convert DRM mobi into non DRM mobi. Dec 15 05:15:25 got a link? :-) Dec 15 05:15:40 eh, not that it really matters Dec 15 05:15:41 let me see if I can dig it up... give me a few... it's kinda a pain to find Dec 15 05:15:50 if it's a pain, don't worry Dec 15 05:15:55 I have the script in a safe place though Dec 15 05:26:25 will G1 hacking ever be as easy as iphone hacking? Dec 15 05:26:33 huh? Dec 15 05:27:30 i think he means the windows programs that 'jailbreak' your phone Dec 15 05:27:37 single click jailbreak Dec 15 05:27:38 yea quickpwn and such Dec 15 05:27:59 but lieutenant, the thing is, we can already do what a jailbroken iphone can do tbh Dec 15 05:28:25 Lieutenant: Well if you consider the fact you can buy what is effectively a "jailbroken" G1 directly from Google, I'd say yes. Dec 15 05:28:44 bgupta_: really, only 80kbps? Dec 15 05:28:47 Check out "Android Dev Phone 1" Dec 15 05:29:07 bgupta_: i thought connectbot was the ssh client. Dec 15 05:29:18 unix_indidel: I think that's what disconnect reported... check with him, he seem sto be doing the most with tethering right now. Dec 15 05:30:22 bgupta_: seems an unlikely / odd limitation. Dec 15 05:30:25 Disconnect: ping. Dec 15 05:30:29 connectbot can do port forwarding Dec 15 05:31:00 are all of you guys developers? Dec 15 05:31:00 Leeds: yea i'm talking about socks proxy, not the ssh tunneling. Dec 15 05:31:15 Pol: aren't you??? Dec 15 05:31:22 unix_infidel: If I recall it has something to do with the UART code. Let me see if I can find his blog post.. Dec 15 05:31:29 iam Dec 15 05:32:11 Leeds if you want to check out the mobi thing, I found a link Dec 15 05:32:23 yeah? Dec 15 05:32:29 pm? Dec 15 05:32:33 sure Dec 15 05:33:28 with android apps that i install from the app store, are they "all inclusive" such that if i were to uninstall one from the app manager it won't leave behind any random dependencies or libraries? Dec 15 05:34:04 umm.... Dec 15 05:34:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiqJwuGR1FA Dec 15 05:34:09 * Lieutenant runs away Dec 15 05:34:26 lol Dec 15 05:34:54 unix_infidel: Found the blog post -- http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/update-bluetooth-speeds-tethering-headsets-etc It's unclear if it is a bluetooth issue or a general issue. seems from context to be a bluetooth issue Dec 15 05:34:54 anyone have an iPhone? Dec 15 05:35:07 Pol: infidel!! Dec 15 05:35:17 i have an iPhone and a G1 Dec 15 05:35:20 iPhones are for iDrones. Dec 15 05:35:25 but why are you askingthat in an android channel? Dec 15 05:35:32 Lieutenant: my netbook doesn't do so well with flash, was that in response to my question? Dec 15 05:35:33 maybe he wants to compare Dec 15 05:35:42 i heard pple are working on it Dec 15 05:36:00 Pol, working on what Dec 15 05:36:02 <`krstnsn> working on what Dec 15 05:36:09 to get android ported into the iphone Dec 15 05:36:14 <`krstnsn> oh god Dec 15 05:36:15 hahahahahhahahahaha Dec 15 05:36:16 lol Dec 15 05:36:19 what a waste Dec 15 05:36:23 why? Dec 15 05:36:29 why a waste? Dec 15 05:36:31 you don't buy an iPhone to get android on it :) Dec 15 05:36:33 iphone has nice hardware Dec 15 05:36:40 android would open it up a little Dec 15 05:36:40 rumors have flown around, but i don't think there is much truth to people porting android to the iphone Dec 15 05:36:47 DarkriftX: to a point Dec 15 05:36:52 <`krstnsn> i mean Dec 15 05:36:59 its the sw that sucks from what ive read Dec 15 05:37:00 lol no max, thatwas just something random Dec 15 05:37:12 DarkriftX: i'm not all that impressed with it Dec 15 05:37:13 Lieutenant: ah, ok ... just wondering :) Dec 15 05:37:14 <`krstnsn> port? couldnt you just jailbreak the iphone delete everything on it and slam android into it? Dec 15 05:37:19 bgupta_: lol, 80K/s != 80kb/s Dec 15 05:37:27 I do know that Linux has been ported... if people wanted to do it badly enough, Android should be possible Dec 15 05:37:28 here Dec 15 05:37:31 http://www.iphonelinux.org/index.php/Main_Page Dec 15 05:37:39 bgupta_: most people dont get more than 400kb/s anyway on 3G. Dec 15 05:38:05 why are we talking about 3g Dec 15 05:38:09 so while an explainable limitation it's not a drag in practice. Dec 15 05:38:21 i think its possible to port Android into the iphone Dec 15 05:38:33 Pol: i think it would be an interesting idea ... i just don't think i could tollerate not having a real keyboard ... one of my favorite features of the G1 :) Dec 15 05:38:34 again, why would you? Dec 15 05:38:36 unix_infidel: WHere did you see 80K/s listed? Dec 15 05:38:41 right Dec 15 05:38:52 i suddenly have a bad case of diarrea Dec 15 05:38:54 why? Dec 15 05:38:55 bgupta_: i read it somewherez. Dec 15 05:39:01 people do it for fun Dec 15 05:39:01 i reorganized my storage drive on my home pc, from my g1 Dec 15 05:39:06 i woulda never done that with my iphone Dec 15 05:39:08 snadge: thanks for sharing >.> Dec 15 05:39:15 i hated browsing the web with that touch screen keyboard Dec 15 05:39:23 yea snadge.. real annoying Dec 15 05:39:34 unix_infidel: "I just got the official word hat the tethering speed problem (80k/sec or, coincidentally, 115200) requires an upstream fix (in-progress)." from http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/update-bluetooth-speeds-tethering-headsets-etc Dec 15 05:39:35 however Dec 15 05:39:44 i do think anything we can get android to run on, lets do it Dec 15 05:39:50 it will bring more dev Dec 15 05:40:04 well i think people wand Android on there iphone, because of the full web browser Dec 15 05:40:13 *want Dec 15 05:40:15 i really think the ATT tilt should be the next port Dec 15 05:40:18 uh safari?? Dec 15 05:40:23 kaiser? Dec 15 05:40:26 safari sucks Dec 15 05:40:26 I have a toaster that's not doing anything right now :) Dec 15 05:40:28 ya kiaser Dec 15 05:40:39 safari uses webkit Dec 15 05:40:39 Pol: i don't have any issues with it Dec 15 05:40:46 I thought the issue with bluetooth was that it's currently treated as a regular serial port, rather than a networking-type device Dec 15 05:40:48 same base for chrome and androids browser Dec 15 05:40:50 as in flash Dec 15 05:40:50 I think dcordes has it working with 0.8, but we need to get 1.0 working Dec 15 05:40:55 its easier to use than the Android browser because of the touchscreen features Dec 15 05:41:00 bgupta_: i assumed he meant "K"...meaning kilobyte...not kilobit Dec 15 05:41:05 d0nets: it probably will be, i've seen a youtube video with someone getting it to boot on the tilt ... it crashes when attempting to use it, but it does boot Dec 15 05:41:09 as i've never seen "k" used to denote kilobit. Dec 15 05:41:16 right Dec 15 05:41:20 we need the full 1.0 running Dec 15 05:41:22 and sollidly Dec 15 05:41:39 Frankly Android on iPhone is next to useless until the IMF stuff is written/released to support soft keyboards. Dec 15 05:41:40 full 1.0 of what? Dec 15 05:41:56 people are claiming it runs more stable on their touch's than wm6 does Dec 15 05:41:58 android Dec 15 05:42:01 bgupta_: good point Dec 15 05:42:14 bgupta: I would guesstimate that the android IMF stuff will be released before Android is running properly on the iphone Dec 15 05:42:22 bgupta_, who better to write them than the iphone devs Dec 15 05:42:32 (also, xchat's spell-checker knows guesstimate, but not xchat) Dec 15 05:43:02 wait, how many iphone devs do u think there is d0nets? Dec 15 05:43:13 * unix_infidel escapes into -dev Dec 15 05:43:14 d0nets: Well considering it's on an official roadmap: http://source.android.com/roadmap I would guess the Android/Google team is working on it. Dec 15 05:43:25 i have o idea Dec 15 05:43:33 lets say 10 Dec 15 05:43:39 but the ones that are out there, have written on screen keyboards... Dec 15 05:44:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm7DO1VtSe0 Dec 15 05:44:30 look at that Dec 15 05:44:39 id like to see android on the axims :) Dec 15 05:44:46 would bring mine out of hibernation Dec 15 05:45:02 sup darkriftx Dec 15 05:45:11 nm Dec 15 05:45:37 Pol: you know the difference between android and mobileOSX, don't you? Dec 15 05:45:44 ya Dec 15 05:45:45 the video cuts Dec 15 05:45:48 why asking? Dec 15 05:45:49 Speaking of porting Android, anyone know of any projects that I don't have listed here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Devices:_Ports Dec 15 05:46:15 but is this released to public/ Dec 15 05:46:16 as u know Android use unix Dec 15 05:46:19 i have seen a couple videos like that Dec 15 05:46:32 yes, unix... /me stops listening Dec 15 05:46:37 Pol: well .... gnu/linux ... but close enough Dec 15 05:46:49 haha Dec 15 05:47:06 very explicitly *not* gnu/linux Dec 15 05:47:19 uhmmm... what Dec 15 05:47:20 ? Dec 15 05:48:21 it's Linux - but as a matter of principle and design it's not GNU Dec 15 05:49:17 its a hybrid monster.. it looks as if GPLed stuff was to be avoided like the plague, which doesnt explain the choice of the linux kernel Dec 15 05:49:40 i just don't understand how that works, GNU GPL code that's not GNU Dec 15 05:49:43 it's been explained here a few times Dec 15 05:49:55 hmm Dec 15 05:49:59 Leeds: Explain it one more time, and I'll put it in the FAQ. Dec 15 05:50:04 to save confusion, android should have just used a BSD kernel Dec 15 05:50:13 snadge: really? Dec 15 05:50:24 that would have been a dumb idea Dec 15 05:50:27 * maxamillion tries not to die laughing Dec 15 05:50:36 lol Dec 15 05:50:44 bgupta: to put it simply - the Linux kernel has wide hardware and industry support, and keeping GPL code in the kernel as much as possible makes a pretty clear line between GPLed stuff and unencumbered stuff Dec 15 05:50:51 * Pol is laughing his ass off Dec 15 05:51:37 but vendors are somewhat scared of the GPL, so it is avoided as much as possible outside the kernel... as far as I know, bluez is about the only userspace code in android which is GPLed Dec 15 05:51:48 you have to scroll down to like page 60 to see an acknowledgement that GPLed software is used Dec 15 05:52:10 in the legal stuff on your g1 Dec 15 05:52:20 Leeds: what licence did they use for everything else? Dec 15 05:52:24 and I'm not even going to try to answer the idea that all GPL code is GNU Dec 15 05:52:30 maxamillion: Apache/BSD/MIT-like Dec 15 05:52:46 Leeds: ah Dec 15 05:52:51 cool cool Dec 15 05:53:52 so someone could create a freedroid, and replace all of the non gpl components with gpl ones :P Dec 15 05:53:54 but please tell me you do know the difference between GPLed code and GNU? Dec 15 05:54:20 Leeds: yeah, i have a friend who works for Cisco and i hear how GPL causes them lots of problems so they try to keep to BSD styled licenses Dec 15 05:54:23 snadge: yes, they could - but calling it freedroid would be pretty stupid, since android is already free Dec 15 05:54:27 Leeds: no, i do ... i was thinking kernel space Dec 15 05:55:01 Leeds: it depends on your definition of free doesnt it.. i was making a tounge in cheek joke about rms Dec 15 05:55:16 snadge: no, you're just wrong Dec 15 05:55:22 does anyone know my previous question about the apps and dependencies? (i can repost if need be) Dec 15 05:55:41 RMS would not deny that android is free - he *prefers* that stuff is copyleft, but free is free Dec 15 05:56:26 i actually like the LGPL in certain situations because it will spawn more corporate support Dec 15 05:56:57 hence the tounge in cheek freedroid.. by making everything gpled, you solve the copyleft preference.. and scare off the majority of corporate involvement at the same time Dec 15 05:57:24 snadge, that is exactly what the didn't want to do Dec 15 05:57:29 they* Dec 15 05:58:16 it makes perfect sense Dec 15 06:00:09 Leeds: How's this: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_Why_does_Android_use_the_a_GPL_Linux_kernel.2C_but_have_non-GPL_libraries_and_user_space_apps.3F Dec 15 06:00:35 (Basically took your answer almost word for word) Dec 15 06:00:44 bgupta: you might want to start using numbered - or otherwise summarised - anchors :-) Dec 15 06:00:58 i dont really buy into the argument that GPL scares corporate people.. linux has seen more commercial development in recent years than BSD probably ever will ;) Dec 15 06:01:23 it's okay, but I wouldn't use the phrase 'non-GPL', since that could well be taken to imply non-free Dec 15 06:01:24 UNless you count all the BSD code in Microsfot Windows and Mac OS X Dec 15 06:01:33 the GPL protects whatever investments you give away for free, by disabling the ability for a competitor to create a proprietry fork from your contribution Dec 15 06:01:41 also, you should probably see if one of the google guys will confirm it's a fair way to describe it Dec 15 06:01:59 snadge: not true, its just that the corporate bsd development isn't rereleased Dec 15 06:02:27 snadge: i do agree with the GPL protecting you though Dec 15 06:03:04 i think the second phone that will have android on it, is the iphone Dec 15 06:03:05 OK changed the question to: "Why does Android use the a GPL Linux kernel, but libraries and user space apps that are licensed under non-copyleft open source licenses?" Dec 15 06:03:12 just saying Dec 15 06:03:16 Leeds: do you know the details on apps pulling dependencies or being "self contained" as a package? ... you seem rather knowledgable :) Dec 15 06:03:16 im just explaining why companies like IBM, Novell, Sun Microsystems etc, contribute to GPL projects without this so called GPL phobia Dec 15 06:03:22 Leeds: Is that better? Dec 15 06:03:47 Pol: did you not see the ports lists? there are already other phones Dec 15 06:03:48 maxamillion: as I understand it, each app is given its own UID - I suspect/assume that removing an app removes all files owned by that UID Dec 15 06:03:56 i know Dec 15 06:04:01 <`krstnsn> omfg Dec 15 06:04:04 just mark my word Dec 15 06:04:09 i also find it kind of interesting that android is protected from forking by virtue of its GPL'ed kernel Dec 15 06:04:11 Pol: frankly, you're talking nonsense Dec 15 06:04:13 Leeds: so there shouldn't be a clutter of dependencies left behind? Dec 15 06:04:21 maxamillion: shouldn't be, no Dec 15 06:04:22 im i? Dec 15 06:04:31 Leeds: awesome, thanks :) Dec 15 06:04:41 <`krstnsn> so im looking to "condition" my battery... do i have to activily use it to run i down? or just let it die? Dec 15 06:04:50 there are apps i wanna try out but didn't want to be too crazy if there was a chance of cluttering my storage space Dec 15 06:04:53 bgupta: maybe something like "more liberal open source/free software licenses" Dec 15 06:05:10 `krstnsn: none of the above, Lithium Ion doesn't work like that Dec 15 06:05:25 <`krstnsn> oh all these dudes are talking about it helping them Dec 15 06:05:31 poetic_folly was here? Dec 15 06:05:38 didnt see him Dec 15 06:05:39 lol Dec 15 06:05:40 <`krstnsn> apparently pol Dec 15 06:05:52 `krstnsn: what people? Dec 15 06:06:04 <`krstnsn> kids in android community Dec 15 06:06:09 do u know who is he `krstnsn? Dec 15 06:06:17 <`krstnsn> ive heard it on pinstack to when i had a BB Dec 15 06:06:23 <`krstnsn> negative pol Dec 15 06:06:27 Leeds: Made your suggested change. Dec 15 06:06:30 `krstnsn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion <---- i trust wikipedia :) Dec 15 06:06:33 well look it up Dec 15 06:06:42 ill give u a hint Dec 15 06:06:47 modmyi.com Dec 15 06:06:53 look there Dec 15 06:07:01 cool Dec 15 06:07:31 Pol: it's *already* running on a bunch of devices Dec 15 06:07:37 android doesnt even run properly on a g1, let alone an iphone ;) Dec 15 06:07:55 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 15 06:07:58 bgupta: s/that// Dec 15 06:08:23 I wish phone companies would be more up front about their future plans Dec 15 06:08:33 <`krstnsn> no shit summatusmentis Dec 15 06:08:45 leeds, where? Dec 15 06:08:46 i tried an android port to kaiser.. or at&t tilt, or tytn ii.. whagever you want to call it.. it was umm, very old and incomplete.. and this is similar hardware to the g1, same manufacturer anyway.. htc Dec 15 06:09:04 Pol: all over the world Dec 15 06:09:18 <`krstnsn> android should of been released on the Touch HD first Dec 15 06:09:21 <`krstnsn> not fucking winmo Dec 15 06:09:45 well i dont really blame htc to be honest.. winmo is where its at with regards to functionality Dec 15 06:09:46 touch hd doesn't have a hard kb Dec 15 06:10:00 Fredbo: hard kb? Dec 15 06:10:02 if we think about it, half of the people on this channel have an iphone Dec 15 06:10:03 <`krstnsn> thats what i dislike about the g1 honestly Dec 15 06:10:07 <`krstnsn> i dont like the hardkb Dec 15 06:10:13 physical kb Dec 15 06:10:21 kb? Dec 15 06:10:26 i like it, because i want to be able to ssh from my phone Dec 15 06:10:27 keyboard Dec 15 06:10:27 oh Dec 15 06:10:28 wow Dec 15 06:10:29 <`krstnsn> if it was a KB like on the BB Dec 15 06:10:30 nvm Dec 15 06:10:33 and soft kb blows big time for ssh Dec 15 06:10:35 i was thinking storage for some reason Dec 15 06:10:35 <`krstnsn> then id be down Dec 15 06:10:38 Pol: and your basis for that is? Dec 15 06:10:55 nothing, just saying Dec 15 06:11:00 i.e. guessing Dec 15 06:11:00 snadge: soft kb isn't _that_ bad for ssh on iPod Touch/Iphone Dec 15 06:11:02 the physical keyboard was one of my favorite features of the G1 ... i hate the iphone for not having one Dec 15 06:11:05 bored now Dec 15 06:11:19 already 1:00 am Dec 15 06:11:21 : Dec 15 06:11:23 :( Dec 15 06:11:30 maxamillion: ever used the iPhone keyboard for extended periods of time? Dec 15 06:12:18 the iphone keyboard sucks for typing passwords Dec 15 06:12:21 <`krstnsn> i just dont like the way it folds out and shit Dec 15 06:12:31 <`krstnsn> id rather have it always exposed Dec 15 06:12:33 Fredbo: that's true Dec 15 06:12:33 summatsmentis: But doesn't the keyboard being on the screen block a huge portion of the screen real estate? That was the downside for me Dec 15 06:12:34 summatusmentis: no, i got too frustrated in the 5 minutes i was messing around with one my friend owns Dec 15 06:12:45 <`krstnsn> i am glad its not like an LG phone, all on hinges n shit Dec 15 06:13:08 Captain_Dingo: it can, depending on what you need... it's not that big of a deal (no worse than a treo, for instance) Dec 15 06:13:23 maxamillion: the iPhone keyboard is nice, if you're willing to trust it Dec 15 06:13:40 <`krstnsn> i think the G1 VK will be legit Dec 15 06:13:49 let it be as smart as it can, that's the point. Dec 15 06:13:51 <`krstnsn> ive seen a couple example people have drawn up Dec 15 06:13:57 how many iphones were sold in this world? Dec 15 06:14:01 don't get me wrong, I'd like a soft keyboard just for the times when I don't feel like flipping the screen, but not for hardcore typing Dec 15 06:14:01 <`krstnsn> too many Dec 15 06:14:03 * Pol just wants to knw Dec 15 06:14:05 summatusmentis: my fingers kept hitting the wrong key and i couldn't handle it Dec 15 06:14:13 annoyed the crap out of me Dec 15 06:14:32 <`krstnsn> maxamillion, the examples of VKs for the G1 i have seen correct mistakes Dec 15 06:14:39 maxamillion: ignore that :) the keyboard is smart enough to know what you mean, the majority of the time Dec 15 06:15:04 <`krstnsn> its real slick Dec 15 06:15:05 I was not sure I'd like it (on my iPod Touch), but it's really nice, except for typing passwords Dec 15 06:15:15 maxamillion, u have an iphone right? Dec 15 06:15:25 Pol: god no Dec 15 06:15:37 hmm Dec 15 06:15:53 Pol: i have a G1 Dec 15 06:15:54 <`krstnsn> i think the VK will vibrate the phone just a tad when you hit a key Dec 15 06:16:05 `krstnsn: that'll be annoying Dec 15 06:16:10 <`krstnsn> i guess Dec 15 06:16:12 people should use the iphone keyboard as a landscape mode Dec 15 06:16:16 greatest phone i have ever had the joy of using Dec 15 06:16:28 I have yet to see tactile feedback work well Dec 15 06:16:29 Pol: i could see that making it suck less Dec 15 06:16:35 no Dec 15 06:16:40 way better Dec 15 06:16:50 the buttons are larger in landscape mode, Dec 15 06:16:51 <`krstnsn> i liked the little vibrate on the one i tried Dec 15 06:16:56 `krstnsn: yeah, i would like that ... think the blackberry storm does something similar Dec 15 06:17:14 we can make the tactile feedback work just like the BB storm, you just have to glue a big pushbutton to the back of the G1 :P Dec 15 06:17:18 blackberry storm, the screen clicks Dec 15 06:17:33 also, you hit a breaking point where you can't type any faster Dec 15 06:17:34 but the kb in landscape mode uses even more real estate Dec 15 06:17:47 on iphone everything is possible Dec 15 06:17:56 just needed to be jailbroken Dec 15 06:18:00 <`krstnsn> i think the storms actual screen pushes in Dec 15 06:18:10 <`krstnsn> iphone cant run apps int he background Dec 15 06:18:17 krstnsn: it does, there's a button behind the screen and it sort of hovers over it Dec 15 06:18:20 yes it can Dec 15 06:18:26 <`krstnsn> ok pol Dec 15 06:18:31 I think the storm may have both resistive and capacitive Dec 15 06:18:44 if u know whats cydia is `krstnsn Dec 15 06:18:53 Pol: the backgrounding apps don't work terribly well Dec 15 06:19:01 at least not w/ IM apps that I've tried Dec 15 06:19:08 like? Dec 15 06:19:17 Fring and Palingo Dec 15 06:19:23 w/ backgrounder Dec 15 06:19:26 tried them Dec 15 06:19:30 works perfect Dec 15 06:19:38 did u turn it on? Dec 15 06:19:41 yeah Dec 15 06:19:52 and then restart? Dec 15 06:19:58 maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it seemed like it would work for a little while, then die again Dec 15 06:20:11 <`krstnsn> ok anyways we all agree the iphone is a locked down hunk of cockmeatsandwich Dec 15 06:20:16 what firmware do u have? Dec 15 06:20:22 this was 2.1 Dec 15 06:20:37 thats the firmware u have? Dec 15 06:20:51 just upgraded to 2.2 Dec 15 06:21:00 why upgraded Dec 15 06:21:06 restore to 2.2 Dec 15 06:21:10 I'm on 2.2 Dec 15 06:21:14 i know Dec 15 06:21:18 <`krstnsn> the iphone should have been an aborted child Dec 15 06:21:19 but not upgrade Dec 15 06:21:22 restore Dec 15 06:21:45 <`krstnsn> actually i dont know anything about the iphone Dec 15 06:21:48 <`krstnsn> i just dont like apple Dec 15 06:21:56 `krstnsn: I love apple :) Dec 15 06:21:59 <`krstnsn> epitamy of corp greed Dec 15 06:22:06 thats why u have problems with ur iphone Dec 15 06:22:15 ok, let me rephrase, I love apple products Dec 15 06:22:29 Leopard? Dec 15 06:22:30 Hey has anyone here gotten the ADP1 working with AT&T? Dec 15 06:22:32 Pol: no, it's not. I've re-jailbroken, everything else is working fine Dec 15 06:22:47 <`krstnsn> i love paying 1200 extra on a laptop just for a little glowing apple Dec 15 06:22:54 i know, but the files from 2.1 will still be there Dec 15 06:23:08 Fedex has taken my ADP1 hostage Dec 15 06:23:08 thats why its better to restore to 2.2 Dec 15 06:23:14 The question is "DId you have to manually configure the APN, or were you able to select an existing one from the APN list?" Dec 15 06:23:21 `krstnsn: I paid $1100 total... Dec 15 06:23:35 `krstnsn, why buy an apple product? Dec 15 06:23:52 (BTW this question also could be "Has anyone gotten an unlocked G1 or an ADP1 working on AT&T's network?" Dec 15 06:24:01 get any laptop, for ex HP and run mac on it Dec 15 06:24:20 Pol: why? Dec 15 06:24:35 apple product is mad expensive Dec 15 06:24:40 thats for one Dec 15 06:24:55 rgr Dec 15 06:25:02 I just can't stand the apple key haha Dec 15 06:25:05 i'm out Dec 15 06:25:22 guess what i have pple Dec 15 06:25:34 Mac CPU: Intel Core2 T7200 2.00GHz @ 2.0GHz [SSE3/SSSE3/PAE/XD/EST/VMX/EM64T/DualCore] L2 Cache: 4096K FSB: 2668MHz RAM: 887.0MB/1.5GB Speed: 667MHz Disk: 17.08GB/37.27GB Display: NVIDIA GeForce Go 7400 (PCIe) [256MB/QE/CI] 1280x800 Audio: Azalia OS: Mac OS X 10.5.5 (9F33) Kernel: Darwin 9.5.0 Uptime: 7:55 Client: Linkinus 1.3 (11349) Dec 15 06:26:43 congrats? Dec 15 06:26:49 lame ;) Dec 15 06:27:16 hmm Dec 15 06:30:01 bgupta: you know it can't do 3G on AT&T, right? Dec 15 06:31:22 it would be good if android could compete with windows mobile ;) Dec 15 06:31:38 is it possible to change the functionality of the long press on the send button on the ADP1 (to restore the voice dialer functionality) ? Dec 15 06:33:51 Leeds: Yeah... Dec 15 06:34:01 Trying to help someone out.. Dec 15 06:34:21 they can't get data going at all. and seem to have entered appropriate APN info... Dec 15 06:34:34 GOnna borrow a SIM on Tuesday and writeup my experience. Dec 15 06:34:50 my phone will randomly flick between no data, 3g and g mode Dec 15 06:35:04 in the same location (ie, not moving) :P Dec 15 06:35:27 but that could very well be because my provider sucks Dec 15 06:35:43 snadge: Mine does that too, but often times it doesn't fall back to 2g, so I end up with no data connection at all unless I force it to "use only 2G mode" Dec 15 06:35:58 I really hate T-Mobile.. but it's the cheapest carrier for playing with new GSM devices.. Dec 15 06:36:08 it's freaking annoying Dec 15 06:36:10 My primary phone is on Sprint... Dec 15 06:36:18 are you on optus Captain_Dingo ? Dec 15 06:36:45 nah, tmob in usa Dec 15 06:38:12 My primary phone is Windows (Blech) Mobile. But I am able to run WMWiFiRouter and get close to 1Mbit throughput over wifi tethering... (Well it actually sets up an AdHoc network where multiple WiFi clients can join).. Waiting for two things Android on SPrint, and WiFi tethering/htospot, before dumpoing the Sprint Treo 800w. Dec 15 06:38:46 (For me extra lines on SPrint are dirt cheap, and I have great signal.) Dec 15 06:39:08 Too bad SPrint will collapse when the industry moves to LTE> Dec 15 06:39:20 LTE? Dec 15 06:39:41 4G Dec 15 06:39:43 and why doesnt g1 work with spring.. wrong freq? Dec 15 06:39:58 wrong everything Dec 15 06:40:16 700 MHz auctions.. 4G technology.. G1 is GSM, SPrint is CDMA. Dec 15 06:40:29 cos im clueless.. when i was in the states, i can remember picking up only two networks.. AT&T and tmobile Dec 15 06:40:30 differnt protocols.. Dec 15 06:40:39 and different freqs.. Dec 15 06:40:45 completely incompatible Dec 15 06:40:50 but i saw ads for sprint and verizon.. they use cdma? Dec 15 06:40:55 yeah Dec 15 06:41:03 AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM Dec 15 06:41:04 right.. so THATS why their coverage is the best ;) Dec 15 06:41:10 right, and gsm sucks for coverage Dec 15 06:41:17 You can roam between Verizon and Sprint... Dec 15 06:41:45 i could _sometimes_ roam from tmobile to at&t Dec 15 06:41:48 Well AT&T has decent coverage. Dec 15 06:42:00 but that was using my international optus sim Dec 15 06:42:04 with roaming enabled Dec 15 06:42:27 AT&T's GSM coverage has gotten pretty good over the years.. Dec 15 06:42:37 as they have bought up regional carriers. Dec 15 06:42:51 right.. my friend could get an AT&T 3g signal, in places where I only had edge or nothing Dec 15 06:42:53 sadly in NYC T-Mobile only has 10% of the bandwidth.. Dec 15 06:43:12 it seems that's pretty typical apparently Dec 15 06:43:44 THe thing with T-Mobile is that it sucks compared to AT&T butthe pricing is much better. Dec 15 06:43:46 the cool thing about at&t's prepaid.. is their data rates are awesome.. 19.99 unlimited or something Dec 15 06:44:05 no such thing with tmo.. prepaid, forget about data Dec 15 06:44:29 snadge: I heard the AT&T prepaid dataplan was being discontinued as a money loser. Dec 15 06:44:43 TOo many people were using it a s a lopphole. Dec 15 06:44:56 well as an aussie tourist, it was by far the best option for temporary portable internet Dec 15 06:45:02 the wifi hotspots are a total rort Dec 15 06:46:48 right Dec 15 06:49:51 ok pple Dec 15 06:49:55 i g2g Dec 15 06:50:02 sleeping time Dec 15 06:50:06 gnite all Dec 15 06:51:27 here i was thinking.. yay.. the usa, there should be cheap and plentiful internet everywhere.. bzzt.. wrong.. more like 3rd world country Dec 15 06:51:48 and the roads.. lol.. were we in the united states, or the phillipines? Dec 15 06:52:11 mind you, im talking about los angeles in particular Dec 15 06:52:38 <`krstnsn> ? Dec 15 06:52:45 <`krstnsn> uhh LA has lots of roads Dec 15 06:53:02 ok some of them are really bad though.. and they're like major freeways Dec 15 06:53:11 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 15 06:53:15 krstnsn: yes, but most of the roads look like someone dug up landmines Dec 15 06:53:26 <`krstnsn> you should go to a northern state Dec 15 06:53:31 is there a pdf reader for android/ Dec 15 06:53:39 none that work well d0nets Dec 15 06:53:41 Kansas has good roads, and Texas highways are pretty good Dec 15 06:53:49 there are like 10, but they all seem to crash on 90% of pdf's Dec 15 06:53:54 ismarc Dec 15 06:53:56 s/'// Dec 15 06:54:00 where do you live Dec 15 06:54:02 im driving to montana Dec 15 06:54:03 30 hours Dec 15 06:54:06 on jan 1 Dec 15 06:54:09 typical android.. 20 market apps to do one thing, incredibly badly ;) Dec 15 06:54:09 I'm in Texas now Dec 15 06:54:23 <`krstnsn> wa, id, mt, nj, ny, mich, wis Dec 15 06:54:24 snadge: it will get better (and is already, but slowly) Dec 15 06:54:29 d0nets: yes, but it's kinda weak: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Q:_Is_there_a_PDF_reader_for_Android.3F Dec 15 06:54:29 <`krstnsn> all those roads suck ass Dec 15 06:54:46 krstnsn: and Oklahoma... Dec 15 06:54:46 well we can either go above colorado Dec 15 06:54:52 or go through kansas and colorado Dec 15 06:55:04 <`krstnsn> im driving from seattle to la on wednesday Dec 15 06:55:08 im heading from SN to montana Dec 15 06:55:14 TN* Dec 15 06:55:15 <`krstnsn> the roads are icy as fuck through WA and ORE Dec 15 06:55:15 I'd avoid Colorado unless you have a good set of brakes and a stick shift Dec 15 06:55:29 well i do in my car Dec 15 06:55:34 (2007 wrx) Dec 15 06:55:39 but were driving a mountaneer Dec 15 06:55:45 <`krstnsn> oh fuck that Dec 15 06:55:47 d0nets: datavix is porting their commercial app Documents to Go to ANdroid.. It includes a good PDF reader... Dec 15 06:56:00 hey, there's nothing wrong with colorado Dec 15 06:56:06 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 15 06:56:07 s/datavix/dataviz/ Dec 15 06:56:21 http://www.dataviz.com/eforms/androidSignUp/ Dec 15 06:56:26 Captain_Dingo: nothing wrong with it, but unless you're used to icey mountains, it's a stressful 8 hours of driving across it Dec 15 06:57:06 i kinda miss the usa already.. and i only went there for about 3 weeks as a tourist Dec 15 06:57:07 ismarc: I'll agree with that Dec 15 06:57:17 <`krstnsn> haha snage Dec 15 06:57:21 <`krstnsn> this place sucks Dec 15 06:57:31 yeah but i like ihop :P Dec 15 06:57:33 Gonna buy Documents To GO when it is released.. that's one major hole in application support... lack of a good spreadsheet/word processor/pdf/etc Dec 15 06:57:54 and las vegas.. we need to like transport ihop and vegas to australia :P Dec 15 06:57:56 i want it for mountain trail maps for my trip Dec 15 06:58:07 is there a gps application yet that you dont need data for? Dec 15 06:58:19 <`krstnsn> you dont have data? Dec 15 06:58:23 wow, you miss the US because of ihop? :P Dec 15 06:58:27 yes, but on the road i might lose it Dec 15 06:58:33 <`krstnsn> oh doubt it Dec 15 06:58:38 Captain_Dingo: yeah we dont have ihop in australia ;) Dec 15 06:58:42 <`krstnsn> i get service from seattle to idaho Dec 15 06:58:46 <`krstnsn> mountains and all Dec 15 06:58:54 lol im going to some of the most remote states Dec 15 06:59:06 <`krstnsn> and seattle to la Dec 15 06:59:07 <`krstnsn> dude Dec 15 06:59:08 One quesiton for devs: When will widgets be added to API? I really want 3rd party widgets. Dec 15 06:59:08 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 15 06:59:18 plus americans in general, are more entertaining to me, than australian people Dec 15 06:59:18 <`krstnsn> eastern wa is more remote then OK Dec 15 06:59:38 i'm sure i'd find something equally weird to miss in australia Dec 15 06:59:57 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 15 07:00:00 <`krstnsn> the women Dec 15 07:00:01 bgupta_: last I heard, they were working on a way for it, but essentially right now, widgets would need global root access or something, so they're having to completely rework it Dec 15 07:00:02 i miss being able to walk into a gun range off the street, and fire off rounds in an m16 or an ak47 Dec 15 07:00:08 <`krstnsn> aussie women love american men Dec 15 07:00:18 ismarc: Thanks... Dec 15 07:00:18 im driving over 2000 miles though Dec 15 07:00:52 kansas, iowa, nebraska, south dakota, montana Dec 15 07:01:03 i can guarantee i dont have service on parts of that trip Dec 15 07:01:18 <`krstnsn> thats the most reasonable way to go to mt? Dec 15 07:01:27 says google maps Dec 15 07:01:31 <`krstnsn> oh wierd Dec 15 07:01:32 if i throw denver colorado in there Dec 15 07:01:36 it changes, but only adds 49 miles Dec 15 07:01:40 <`krstnsn> prolly is Dec 15 07:01:55 <`krstnsn> i90 is pretty much a thourough fair Dec 15 07:02:05 <`krstnsn> you check any coverage maps Dec 15 07:02:06 <`krstnsn> ? Dec 15 07:02:21 ok, off to bed with me Dec 15 07:02:30 no do they do them for trips and such? Dec 15 07:02:39 someone needs to make a good trip planning software Dec 15 07:02:46 if you're driving 2000 miles... the most reasonable way to go is by air Dec 15 07:02:48 gotta fix a bunch of stuff tomorrow that I broke in a drunk coding session Dec 15 07:02:50 with weather forecasts, service forecasts, road and traffic, etc... Dec 15 07:03:22 <`krstnsn> thats be cool d0nets Dec 15 07:03:27 <`krstnsn> THATD Dec 15 07:04:22 * bgupta_ wants a weather widget. Dec 15 07:04:38 <`krstnsn> ya i reset my phone cause a couple things werent working well Dec 15 07:04:43 <`krstnsn> now that shit doesnt work at all Dec 15 07:04:51 <`krstnsn> i cant get fucking weatherbug to work at all Dec 15 07:05:00 <`krstnsn> and my irc app crashes more Dec 15 07:05:33 <`krstnsn> im pretty irritiated about it Dec 15 07:05:42 that sucks Dec 15 07:05:45 use the weather channel Dec 15 07:05:49 its the best weather app Dec 15 07:05:54 <`krstnsn> i didnt like it Dec 15 07:05:58 you freal? Dec 15 07:06:04 <`krstnsn> i cant pull addresses from my address book Dec 15 07:06:08 <`krstnsn> and save them as locations Dec 15 07:06:15 so Dec 15 07:06:24 <`krstnsn> weatherbug has a little chick that talks to me Dec 15 07:06:26 thats dumb Dec 15 07:06:29 <`krstnsn> live weather cams Dec 15 07:06:34 so does the weather channel Dec 15 07:06:34 <`krstnsn> how is that dumb? Dec 15 07:06:44 and google maps api with tons of layers Dec 15 07:06:48 <`krstnsn> i cant enter locations and save then in weatherchan Dec 15 07:06:57 yea you can Dec 15 07:06:58 lol Dec 15 07:07:08 you can add any location google maps can Dec 15 07:07:14 it uses the maps api Dec 15 07:07:21 install it Dec 15 07:07:23 <`krstnsn> i did Dec 15 07:07:25 add a location Dec 15 07:07:25 <`krstnsn> i hated it Dec 15 07:07:27 then hit menu Dec 15 07:07:33 hit video Dec 15 07:07:38 after that hit maps Dec 15 07:07:46 then hit menu in the maps and go to layers Dec 15 07:08:15 not only can you load and save locatins Dec 15 07:08:24 but you can change between them with a swipe of a finger Dec 15 07:08:57 trust me i was an accuweather fanboi till last week Dec 15 07:09:42 i hated the weather channel and weather.com like i hate fox news Dec 15 07:09:52 well all of the major news networks tbh Dec 15 07:09:59 <`krstnsn> ya weather chan is a fuck Dec 15 07:10:07 ah, yes, mainstream media is evil Dec 15 07:10:16 yea Dec 15 07:10:18 almost as evil as t-mobile :P Dec 15 07:10:20 * d0nets is a "paul head" Dec 15 07:11:05 krstnsn theres a reason the app is the most popular app on the market Dec 15 07:11:13 tmobile isnt too evil Dec 15 07:11:17 their coverage isnt the best Dec 15 07:11:25 but their service is great in my experience Dec 15 07:11:34 <`krstnsn> cause people are sheep, see it in the top downloaded and download it themselves Dec 15 07:12:21 <`krstnsn> its fucking 24 degrees out side Dec 15 07:12:24 <`krstnsn> FUCK THIS Dec 15 07:12:27 krstnsn ive used them all Dec 15 07:12:42 can anyone back me up lol? weather channel pwns * Dec 15 07:12:53 `krstnsn: it's -40F outside here (w/ wind chill) Dec 15 07:12:57 <`krstnsn> ive used it i dont like it Dec 15 07:13:02 jeeze language Dec 15 07:13:03 <`krstnsn> where are you? Dec 15 07:13:08 yea where im going its going to be -40F Dec 15 07:13:12 in whitefish montana Dec 15 07:13:21 <`krstnsn> does the language really matter? Dec 15 07:13:24 <`krstnsn> were all adults Dec 15 07:13:24 or where im going, it IS -40 wind chill Dec 15 07:13:29 <`krstnsn> woooo censorship! Dec 15 07:13:31 I'm in MN Dec 15 07:13:39 <`krstnsn> oh ya Dec 15 07:13:40 also, there are no guarantees that we're all adults Dec 15 07:13:42 Offtopic -- Palm maybe releaisng a Linux phone: http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/15/palm-os-nova-and-first-nova-device-look-like-a-lock-for/ Dec 15 07:13:46 <`krstnsn> its cold there Dec 15 07:13:50 `krstnsn: if your child was in here would you appreciate it? Dec 15 07:13:55 <`krstnsn> ya Dec 15 07:13:57 <`krstnsn> i wouldnt care Dec 15 07:14:02 <`krstnsn> i have 2 kids Dec 15 07:14:11 well, its rude Dec 15 07:14:15 <`krstnsn> im very very very anti censorship Dec 15 07:14:16 <`krstnsn> stfu Dec 15 07:14:31 well, keep it clean Dec 15 07:14:43 <`krstnsn> you werent even chatting in here Dec 15 07:14:52 i'm always in here Dec 15 07:14:54 <`krstnsn> go back to looking at hentia Dec 15 07:15:09 so Dec 15 07:15:12 how is android? Dec 15 07:15:14 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 15 07:15:15 pwns Dec 15 07:15:17 <`krstnsn> its sweet Dec 15 07:15:18 esp. that t mobile phone Dec 15 07:15:18 * michaelnovakjr remembers a nick to report :) Dec 15 07:15:33 the g1 is about an 8 out of 10 Dec 15 07:15:38 hardware wise Dec 15 07:15:48 it has great innovation and some of the aspects are great Dec 15 07:15:57 why doesnt it appear as popular as the iphone? Dec 15 07:16:06 newer than the iPhone Dec 15 07:16:06 always i hear "my iphone this" "my iphone that" Dec 15 07:16:07 i dont like the squeekyness and it feels a slight lack of structural integrity Dec 15 07:16:18 iphone is shiny Dec 15 07:16:25 * `krstnsn remembers nothing cause he has better crap to do then monitor people Dec 15 07:16:28 hmm Dec 15 07:16:29 iPhone is shiny, and had longer to get market share Dec 15 07:16:38 <`krstnsn> michaelnovakjr, change your nick to hall monitor Dec 15 07:16:40 i suppose blind fanboyism doesnt help Dec 15 07:16:42 its a sexy refined woman on the outside, on the inside its a fat dumb whore Dec 15 07:16:50 haha Dec 15 07:16:54 Livingroom: that's also true Dec 15 07:16:59 still though Dec 15 07:17:04 <`krstnsn> hahah d0nets Dec 15 07:17:05 for what i do, mine suits me. the T1? not so much Dec 15 07:17:06 <`krstnsn> nice Dec 15 07:17:23 dont have a T1, but the ones i've played with seemed odd Dec 15 07:17:33 t1? Dec 15 07:17:34 sort of like, driving a car made for british roads Dec 15 07:17:34 g1? Dec 15 07:17:36 <`krstnsn> where do you get a t1? Dec 15 07:17:38 *g1 Dec 15 07:17:42 s/t1/g1 Dec 15 07:17:44 g1 has qwerty Dec 15 07:17:45 <`krstnsn> fo sho Dec 15 07:17:48 go do something text intensive Dec 15 07:17:51 with an iphone Dec 15 07:17:52 a hardware keyboard is a big turn off for me Dec 15 07:18:00 <`krstnsn> me too Livingroom Dec 15 07:18:03 i wanted to break that expensive pos after trying to irc with it Dec 15 07:18:03 <`krstnsn> but i deal with it Dec 15 07:18:08 tapping a panel = star trek = awesome. Dec 15 07:18:14 <`krstnsn> hahahah Dec 15 07:18:17 = slow Dec 15 07:18:29 <`krstnsn> you use the irc app for android? Dec 15 07:18:42 'night all Dec 15 07:18:43 slow? not at all Dec 15 07:18:48 i write emails on there all the time Dec 15 07:18:52 ive been trying it out for a bit, but i usually use bitchX through my shell Dec 15 07:18:57 Looks ike Flash Player10 is a go for Android: http://www.builderau.com.au/program/flash/soa/MAX-08-Adobe-lays-out-future-directions/0,339028413,339293813,00.htm Dec 15 07:19:04 livingroom i organize my files via ssh Dec 15 07:19:21 <`krstnsn> oh windows Dec 15 07:19:24 could you do that on the iphone? yea Dec 15 07:19:50 could i do it without breaking the phone and slitting my wrists with the glass? no Dec 15 07:20:00 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 15 07:20:02 i see the G1 vs. iPhone debate not so much as "can you do this? HA!" as more "how easy is it to do this? HA!" Dec 15 07:20:15 ok Dec 15 07:20:18 how about a can you do this Dec 15 07:20:19 <`krstnsn> well macs are supposed to be so easy to do stuff Dec 15 07:20:22 iphone has no compass Dec 15 07:20:31 <`krstnsn> but i want to kill myself using osx Dec 15 07:20:35 go get someone's g1 and try out skymap Dec 15 07:20:37 does the iphone /need/ a compass? Dec 15 07:20:49 thats like Dec 15 07:20:50 then try out street view compass mode Dec 15 07:20:59 then try out the compass out Dec 15 07:21:06 "my gun shoots exploding bullets!" why? do you /need/ exploding bullets? sure, they're cool, but... Dec 15 07:21:06 compass app * Dec 15 07:21:15 <`krstnsn> ok Dec 15 07:21:22 <`krstnsn> well this debate is going no where Dec 15 07:21:30 i dont think it is "overkill" (what i assume you are saying with that insane analogy) Dec 15 07:21:58 not really saying overkill, though i do see how it says that- it's just, why do you need a compass? Dec 15 07:22:09 i would rather rely on a pocket compass for navi. Dec 15 07:22:16 <`krstnsn> ahhaha Dec 15 07:22:17 <`krstnsn> omg Dec 15 07:22:21 <`krstnsn> ill be back Dec 15 07:22:23 <`krstnsn> this is dumb Dec 15 07:22:31 well, anyway. Dec 15 07:22:40 i've derailed the debate Dec 15 07:22:45 sorry; ttyl Dec 15 07:24:35 lol because we have something the iphone doesnt, its pointless? Dec 15 07:24:43 <`krstnsn> ya that was idiotic Dec 15 07:24:51 <`krstnsn> pocket compass? Dec 15 07:24:54 <`krstnsn> whats wrong with that dude Dec 15 07:24:57 <`krstnsn> who has those? Dec 15 07:25:31 i was thinking for ports of android where the phone doesnt have a compass Dec 15 07:25:48 they could make keychain analog compasses with bluetooth functionality Dec 15 07:26:55 ok, time for sleep. you all enjoy your arguing over magnets and iphones :P Dec 15 07:27:40 * JesusFreke magnets are better than iphones! Dec 15 07:27:51 <`krstnsn> =] Dec 15 07:43:36 good morning all Dec 15 07:43:55 anyone want the latest version of busybox compiled for android / G1? Dec 15 07:44:14 the one thats used as part of the root process was compiled over a year ago and segfaults a lot Dec 15 07:44:40 I compiled it from the latest source last night and it doesn't seem to crash, but it needs testing a little before I can just stick it on some website and say "here you go!" Dec 15 07:47:52 hi all, I wrote a custom view called Card. Although I can put it on screen using Java I can't put on screen using XML. When I write my main.xml I get "ERROR Error parsing XML: unbound prefix". These are the files Card.java: http://pastebin.com/d1c81757a main.xml: http://pastebin.com/d4d661b31 Dec 15 07:52:52 yay just did a big dump of android stuff ^^ Dec 15 07:53:38 check it out, you can automatically categorize all the apps you have installed http://tinyurl.com/55oeey Dec 15 07:54:32 and use greasemonkey scripts that can reach into the intent world, letting webpages scan barcodes and more http://tinyurl.com/5unnpl Dec 15 07:54:40 Foxdie: feel free to post it on my forums asking for testers Dec 15 07:55:05 like what jsharkey? Dec 15 07:55:18 there is a video demo showing off several scripts ;) Dec 15 08:01:29 nice Dec 15 08:01:39 i like the barcode scan/click to select email address Dec 15 08:01:50 those are just a few examples ;) Dec 15 08:02:16 the really power comes from how flexible intents are Dec 15 08:02:29 repasting for my g1 to see :) http://tinyurl.com/5unnpl Dec 15 08:03:10 DarkriftX: i think the grouping app is more valuable right now ;) Dec 15 08:03:20 my app drawer was getting almost unusable Dec 15 08:03:39 anyone here play with zxing? Dec 15 08:03:42 its nice but im getting really good at the wheel of fortune with my app drawer Dec 15 08:03:47 spackest: yep :) wats up? Dec 15 08:03:54 i slam it down real fast and stop it when i think im at the right letter Dec 15 08:03:58 just looking for endorsements :) Dec 15 08:04:00 LOL @ fortune ;) Dec 15 08:04:10 and 90% of the time i land with the app on screen Dec 15 08:04:14 spackest: endorsements? like about how it works? Dec 15 08:04:37 I guess like that it does work, was easy to integrate, etc Dec 15 08:05:04 spackest: its very easy to integrate if you use intents Dec 15 08:05:21 startActivityForResult() and it comes back with the recognized barcode Dec 15 08:05:41 how about test images with the emulator? Dec 15 08:06:06 sadly that doesnt work very well :/ i mean, you can still direct it to use test images Dec 15 08:06:20 but its pretty hard to hook the emulator up to a real camera Dec 15 08:06:56 does the g2 have a release date yet? Dec 15 08:07:11 (there is a g2? lol) Dec 15 08:10:56 you folks all have a g1? Dec 15 08:11:13 so jsharkey is oilcan a browser? Dec 15 08:11:22 ya, but most new folks are buying the development device Dec 15 08:11:35 i guess the dev device is like a g1.5 Dec 15 08:11:36 lol Dec 15 08:11:54 DarkriftX: yea its a thin wrapper of new chrome around the new browser, hopefully it could turn into something like an actual browser plugin later Dec 15 08:12:02 mostly just a proof-of-concept right now Dec 15 08:12:04 $399, right? guess I haven't tried to actually deploy, but doesn't a normal phone do pretty well for testing? Dec 15 08:12:25 i was on a download page downloading scripts and i hit back and it took me somewhere else Dec 15 08:12:27 now im lost lol Dec 15 08:12:32 spackest: yea, but if you dont already have tmobile service, the dev phone is another option Dec 15 08:12:46 ahh, yeah, I am on tmobile Dec 15 08:12:55 I can see not wanting to switch carriers Dec 15 08:15:15 well great work jsharkey seems to work nicely Dec 15 08:15:25 the wikipedia was a big one tho :) Dec 15 08:15:39 getting it to clean up the screen and make it much more readable Dec 15 08:15:49 also have a script in there for cleaning the columns on /. Dec 15 08:15:56 i saw that Dec 15 08:17:02 still cant find how to go back in it Dec 15 08:17:10 question Dec 15 08:17:11 but other than that, working great Dec 15 08:17:22 where is the environment variable "PATH" set in android? Dec 15 08:17:30 yea i had to dump all that out early before tomorrow Dec 15 08:17:52 neither of them is ready for market Dec 15 08:18:45 add working "back" (currently it takes you to the manage scripts since thats where I was before going to scripts download) and add a long press for links and it will be pretty damned market ready Dec 15 08:19:12 well really i dont want it to become another "browser" really Dec 15 08:19:21 id really like to get it as a browser extension Dec 15 08:19:28 is that possible? Dec 15 08:19:39 i didnt know it supported extensions Dec 15 08:19:53 well, maybe not right now, but at some point it will Dec 15 08:20:13 might be another firmware update away, but i think all the hooks are there for plugins Dec 15 08:20:22 iirc, gears behaves like a browser plugin Dec 15 08:20:28 and flash (if its coming) would behave like one too Dec 15 08:21:01 well, with your source maybe ppl can continue it in your semi absence Dec 15 08:21:22 oh, for sure, thats why its out there :) Dec 15 08:21:27 but good luck on your first day tomorrow Dec 15 08:21:40 thanks yea i should get to sleep soon Dec 15 08:21:45 still need to finish up last minute paperwork Dec 15 08:21:49 what exactly will you be doing? Dec 15 08:21:58 working on android ;) Dec 15 08:22:20 or do you even know Dec 15 08:22:26 what kind of work Dec 15 08:22:31 built in apps, or android itself Dec 15 08:22:39 i suppose ill find out for sure tomorrow Dec 15 08:23:10 has anybody figured out pacakage tracing for Europe-bound DP1's yet? Dec 15 08:23:15 well maybe having an outside view that most of them do not, you can help get ideas into google for us lol Dec 15 08:23:31 * DarkriftX needs sleep also Dec 15 08:25:57 gn all Dec 15 08:29:24 jsharkey: http://android-dls.com/ Dec 15 08:29:47 * DarkriftX goes to sleep now Dec 15 08:53:02 okay here we go Dec 15 08:55:30 Latest version of busybox compiled for android / G1: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3043736 Dec 15 08:59:01 cool, thanks foxdie :) Dec 15 08:59:12 foxdie, a couple Qs Dec 15 08:59:16 Shoot Dec 15 09:00:07 did you change the default installation folder that gets used when you do a busybox --install? Dec 15 09:00:39 nope Dec 15 09:00:53 but I have a semi good reason Dec 15 09:01:06 would you mind making me one that installs to /system/bin? I need one like for use in my recovery image :) Dec 15 09:01:18 there doesn't seem to be a "standard" for where to have stuff installed yet Dec 15 09:01:43 I wouldn't use that one in the normal android system, just in recovery Dec 15 09:01:45 for example, I symlinked /bin and /sbin to /data/local/bin and /data/local/sbin respectively so that I can make amendments to the filesystem that will keep after an upgrade Dec 15 09:01:50 actually Dec 15 09:01:55 and then did busybox --install into those folders Dec 15 09:02:09 but sure, if you want me to cook you up a new version I'll do it for you now Dec 15 09:02:26 depending on the answer to my 2nd question, you may be able to ignore my request for a build :) Dec 15 09:02:56 when you do run the sh applet, is it set up so that it automatically uses the built-in applets without having to type busybox? Dec 15 09:03:18 I've seen several busybox binaries, and some are 1 way, and some are the other Dec 15 09:04:02 like with saurik's latest binary, you can use all the busybox applets from busybox's sh, without having to have all the links setup Dec 15 09:04:14 but in fnord's latest one, you have to have the links Dec 15 09:04:41 ooh Dec 15 09:04:48 I did notice that option in busybox's menuconfig Dec 15 09:04:55 I kept it legacy, ie. using symlinks Dec 15 09:04:59 (soft links) Dec 15 09:05:13 I don't mind building a new version with different parameters if you wish Dec 15 09:05:25 nah, don't worry about it right now Dec 15 09:05:35 I actually need to figure out how fnord built his Dec 15 09:05:35 haha, saurik is in this channel too. Dec 15 09:05:44 the one I made, if you run busybox sh you still have to run busybox function --blahblah Dec 15 09:05:51 but Dec 15 09:05:53 he got it to link against uclib, and it's super small Dec 15 09:06:04 like, 800kb Dec 15 09:06:14 statically? Dec 15 09:06:19 800K isn't super small :-) Dec 15 09:06:19 yeah Dec 15 09:06:29 800k is much smaller than 1.6m :p Dec 15 09:06:37 1.7m rather Dec 15 09:06:51 because I symlinked /bin and /sbin to /data/local/bin and /data/local/sbin and did busybox --install, if I change my path with the following, it all works as you expect: export PATH="/bin:$PATH" Dec 15 09:06:59 agreed Dec 15 09:07:04 mines 1.8MB Dec 15 09:07:25 could possibly do with a little shrinkage Dec 15 09:07:38 but then just about everything is compiled into it Dec 15 09:07:50 and the android filesystem isn't that starved for space Dec 15 09:07:55 yeah it is :p Dec 15 09:08:02 /system is Dec 15 09:08:05 infact, question, why the hell do we have everything in seperate partitions? Dec 15 09:08:23 well actually don't answer that Dec 15 09:08:34 I had to leave out a lot of saurik's modules in v1.2 because they wouldn't all fit in system Dec 15 09:08:36 I do know why, I just think its frustrating :) Dec 15 09:09:24 but anyway, thanks for posting the new busybox build :) Dec 15 09:11:36 I just got frustrated with benno's version crashing whenever you tried to do a "ls -al" Dec 15 09:16:33 should I recompile it with different options? Dec 15 09:16:58 and with uclib? (although I don't know how to do that immediately, I could look into it though) Dec 15 09:17:50 if you can figure out how to compile it with uclibc, that would be awesome :) Dec 15 09:18:48 * nyt yawn Dec 15 09:18:48 s Dec 15 09:19:18 I was planning on trying to figure that out myself, to make a new busybox binary to include in the next version of my update Dec 15 09:19:53 but if you can, that would be great :) Dec 15 09:22:37 okay, any quick advice on how I can specify how to use uClibc instead of the regular libc when trying to compile an app? Dec 15 09:23:10 I have no clue :) Dec 15 09:23:18 ok, I'll try and do some digging Dec 15 09:23:35 I think you'd need a GCC that is configured to link to uclibc. Dec 15 09:24:25 And an entirely statically linked busybox would be independent of any Android specific toolchain or libraries. Dec 15 09:24:38 It'd just need to use ARM EABI and talk to a 2.6-ish kernel. Dec 15 09:24:48 right Dec 15 09:26:57 Hello Dec 15 09:27:06 Can anyone offer help for my G1 phone? Dec 15 09:27:12 no! Dec 15 09:27:17 Ah well Dec 15 09:27:19 not until you tell us what you want help with! Dec 15 09:27:33 and you must bring us a... shrubbery! Dec 15 09:27:43 I put a PDF file from my Computer through a USB, how do I access it? Dec 15 09:27:50 you can't! Dec 15 09:27:52 next question? Dec 15 09:27:57 From my buildroot generated uclibc toolchain: Dec 15 09:27:59 br-build/build_arm/staging_dir/usr/bin/arm-linux-uclibcgnueabi-gcc -static test.c -o test Dec 15 09:28:08 br-build/build_arm/staging_dir/usr/bin/arm-linux-uclibcgnueabi-ldd test Dec 15 09:28:15 not a dynamic executable Dec 15 09:28:17 That seemed to work. Dec 15 09:28:28 WildCard: AFAIK, there is no 'native' PDF reader for Android... the only way to view them is using a web converter, or converting them yourself in advance Dec 15 09:28:39 NI! Dec 15 09:28:41 Leeds, can I just email the PDF file to myself through gmail, and download it on my G1? Dec 15 09:28:42 Ah Dec 15 09:28:43 Okay Dec 15 09:28:46 Nvm Dec 15 09:28:52 * JesusFreke cowers in fear Dec 15 09:28:55 yes, you can do that! Dec 15 09:29:01 Oh Dec 15 09:29:01 run away! Dec 15 09:29:02 Okay! Dec 15 09:29:11 So apparently, just use a uclibc toolchain and compile with the "-static" flag. Dec 15 09:29:15 Then view it Leeds? Dec 15 09:29:37 WildCard: YES! Dec 15 09:29:45 omg cool okay Ima do that thx Dec 15 09:29:48 I'm not sure why I'm shouting :-) Dec 15 09:29:53 me either! Dec 15 09:29:58 :) Dec 15 09:30:17 Hurray for enthusiasm. Dec 15 09:30:18 So can anyone send me the BioWallet app? Dec 15 09:30:25 attribute it to the fact that there's a minimum insanity quota for this channel :) Dec 15 09:30:25 WildCard: I got badly bitten by this a couple of weeks ago Dec 15 09:30:44 Ah Dec 15 09:30:51 Oops Dec 15 09:31:11 would BioWallet be a paid app, by any chance? Dec 15 09:31:30 planetbeing, do I need to build uclibc using the arm gcc? Dec 15 09:31:40 or just build it nateively? Dec 15 09:32:00 pretty sure it would need to be with the arm gcc Dec 15 09:32:33 okay, and when I rebuild busybox, any particular options you'd like me to set? Dec 15 09:32:46 ie. so it knows to use everything itself when running busybox sh? Dec 15 09:32:53 yeah, turn that one on :) Dec 15 09:32:54 So can anyone make the G1 phone into a Garage Opener or a Remote for a TV? Dec 15 09:33:34 I can't think of anything else offhand Dec 15 09:34:03 remote for TV with IR ? :) Dec 15 09:34:10 without IR I meant Dec 15 09:34:17 G1 doesn't have an infrared port does it? Dec 15 09:34:29 Well yeah thats the problem it does not have one Dec 15 09:34:36 thought as much Dec 15 09:34:37 In real life Dec 15 09:34:39 ? Dec 15 09:34:51 for a second I was like "I don't remember noticing one on my g1" Dec 15 09:34:52 in real life ? What do you mena. Dec 15 09:35:02 mean Dec 15 09:35:04 IR Dec 15 09:35:10 Never mind Dec 15 09:35:13 IR = Infrared Dec 15 09:35:16 :) Dec 15 09:35:46 So any cool things I should know about my G1? Dec 15 09:35:57 yes, it makes phone calls Dec 15 09:36:20 It makes a lot bud it will be a lot more if the paid apps start :) Dec 15 09:36:24 most "do everything" phones these days seem to forget that little detail about being a "phone" :) Dec 15 09:37:53 Oo oI gots a good iDEa for an app Dec 15 09:38:02 A universal translator Dec 15 09:38:14 Guy speaks into phone and it goes into your language Dec 15 09:38:57 http://androidirc.googlecode.com/files/irc-beta-2008121500.apk Dec 15 09:38:59 new build of irc Dec 15 09:39:02 should fix the lockups and such Dec 15 09:39:05 nyt, cheers dude Dec 15 09:39:19 and i added /quit and /exit Dec 15 09:39:21 will try it soon, just botching together uclibc :) Dec 15 09:39:22 for whoever was complaining about that Dec 15 09:39:49 WildCard: http://brad.livejournal.com/2397080.html :-) Dec 15 09:41:06 ooO0o Dec 15 09:43:03 I'm out. later Dec 15 09:43:06 oh, I forget. Dec 15 09:43:11 I'm out! later! Dec 15 09:43:13 take care JF Dec 15 09:43:34 Okay I downloaded a PDF through Gmail but it couldnt Download because the content could not be supported Dec 15 09:43:39 SEEYA! Dec 15 09:47:40 WildCard: works for me... I just emailed myself a PDF to my gmail account, then hit the 'Preview' button Dec 15 09:48:11 Oh so you just hit preview, K Dec 15 09:52:36 k gonna sleep Dec 15 09:58:02 evening romainguy Dec 15 10:03:09 not that there should be, of course - but is there any known reason to reboot a stable/working Android device? Dec 15 10:03:41 my phone has been up and running for about 2.5 weeks now without a reboot... just wondering Dec 15 10:08:31 JesusFreke: How can someone identify if he has a custom RC30 image or the orginal (locked) one? Dec 15 10:08:40 (after he got it from ebay) Dec 15 10:21:35 http://www.cedarpc.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=439 Dec 15 10:21:37 or Dec 15 10:21:51 http://www.unityelectronics.com/product-product_id/5039 Dec 15 10:22:25 oh lame the cheaper one is out of stock Dec 15 10:22:42 * Leeds gapes Dec 15 10:23:07 I was just looking at prices here, and retail is rapidly approaching US$100 Dec 15 10:23:24 'just' meaning about 10 minutes ago :-) Dec 15 11:36:23 ifap.to lol, be warned iphone and g1 streaming porn :P Dec 15 12:00:51 anyone using a sandisk 8gb micro sd with there G1? Im having some trouble with mine. It dissapears now and then and the phone cant see the card is there. Dec 15 12:01:45 mib_13x5fg: I am Dec 15 12:01:51 seemed to work at least mostly fine Dec 15 12:02:01 (I might not use it often enough to notice) Dec 15 12:02:05 has anyone figured out how to get tracing for Europe-bound DP1's? Dec 15 12:07:30 saurik: have you ever tried to format it when its in the G1. Mounted in windows I mean (or w/e Os you use). I can never complete a full format of the card. Quick format is ok. Dec 15 12:09:58 no... I would never have even thought to try that Dec 15 12:10:19 to verify, you mean formatting the USB mass storage device that is mounted from the device, rather than putting the card into a slot on my PC? Dec 15 12:10:26 yeah Dec 15 12:10:32 yeah, definitelt not ;P Dec 15 12:10:41 you think that is a bad thing to do? Dec 15 12:10:53 I don't know; I know very little about the USB mass storage thinge Dec 15 12:11:00 Ok :D Dec 15 12:12:23 Are there other mobiles supported for android than G1 ? Dec 15 12:12:46 not yet afaik Dec 15 12:18:09 anyone willing to provide me feedback on http://www.cyrket.com/? (such as: would you ever use such a thing?) Dec 15 12:19:47 i might... i'd like to see a more forum sort of review thing on the individual application's page though Dec 15 12:19:53 to ]encourage conversation Dec 15 12:20:19 currently this is just a client for android's existing setup (you should see the same content on the device) Dec 15 12:20:33 ah, ok, i was kinda wondering where the data came from Dec 15 12:20:39 definately not bad though Dec 15 12:20:44 saurik, yes Dec 15 12:21:09 been looking for somthing like that Dec 15 12:22:53 Anyone know when google will allow dev's to sell apps on the marketplace? Dec 15 12:23:46 i heard feb Dec 15 12:37:28 * saurik (will probably look into welding some kind of forum into the site either tomorrow or, more likely, the day after) Dec 15 12:37:33 * saurik heads to bed for now, though Dec 15 12:50:51 im baffled by my stats in the market Dec 15 13:28:20 Can someone tell me what is wrong if I'm getting all my LOG messages doubled ? Dec 15 13:28:55 Can there be errors in the installing process of the application so I'm running 2 instances of my activity in some way? Dec 15 13:29:06 I'm getting crazy about that error grr. Dec 15 13:30:26 hmm, anyone else having connection refused errors when trying to get to xda developers? Dec 15 13:30:37 Foxdie yeah Dec 15 13:30:51 cool ok, so long as its not me :) Dec 15 13:30:59 heh Dec 15 13:31:39 ;) Dec 15 13:34:37 Is anyone here doing an IRC prog. for the android? Dec 15 13:34:43 yes Dec 15 13:34:59 http://androidirc.googlecode.com/files/irc-beta-2008121400.apk Dec 15 13:35:20 there's a new file, so just go to the project homepage Dec 15 13:35:31 Am there Dec 15 13:35:43 There are quite a few sites proclaiming to be devloping irc for android Dec 15 13:35:46 But no releases yet Dec 15 13:35:54 that's the only one i've seen Dec 15 13:35:55 Have to use the ssh client atm Dec 15 13:36:13 i was working on one but stopped because of no time and the fact the one above works Dec 15 13:36:16 Are you going to test it with shroudbnc? Dec 15 13:36:43 ? Dec 15 13:36:43 There's this one Dec 15 13:36:44 http://androidirc.net/ Dec 15 13:36:48 nostferka, talk to nyt, he's developing the IRC client listed above Dec 15 13:36:54 This one http://www.talkandroid.com/applications/ircell/ Dec 15 13:36:56 Cool Dec 15 13:38:37 i'm using androidirc, it works Dec 15 13:38:46 doesn't really need to be flashy. Dec 15 13:40:28 Hrm, I've got a simple C application that uses /dev/dsp (under linux) .. I've got it built to run under android, but it seems /dev/dsp is not the /dev/dsp I'd expect (or its currently blocked by something) ... anyone know? Dec 15 13:40:56 android's layout is different Dec 15 13:41:45 How so? Dec 15 14:02:48 might anyone have the URL to the list of ported devices? Dec 15 14:04:13 yeesh im tired Dec 15 14:04:19 that was a crazy 3 night partyfest ... Dec 15 14:04:32 back to the daily grind ... Dec 15 14:05:33 ah, nvm ... i found it Dec 15 14:32:34 good gracious lord on a stick, this is a sweet phone. Dec 15 14:33:19 yup Dec 15 14:33:22 g1? Dec 15 14:33:25 dev1 Dec 15 14:33:33 same thing :) Dec 15 14:33:47 morning all Dec 15 14:34:05 kirberich: just don't try to use imap email. or send sms's to multiple people. or (etc) :) Dec 15 14:34:32 Disconnect: what's the deal with imap email? Dec 15 14:35:12 and what's the deal with multiple sms recievers? Dec 15 14:35:14 in the shipped versions it won't ever mark a message as deleted. evidently related to whether or not it has auto-config for your domain (eg if you have to put in your mailserver address, it probably won't delete.) Dec 15 14:35:23 whats wrong with mult messages? Dec 15 14:35:51 no way to get a list, you have to use autocomplete or nothing Dec 15 14:36:05 Disconnect: wait, I *did* put in my mailserver addresses ... so this means it won't delete messages when i tell it to? Dec 15 14:36:14 disc: whats wrong with that? Dec 15 14:36:26 (textany iirc is the app that fixes that, although since its not integrated it leaves you with a huge pile of #s and no names in the 'to' field. hard to make changes..) Dec 15 14:36:37 maxamillion: try it.. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 15 14:38:29 2008 Dec 15 14:40:50 Disconnect: crap ... it doesn't delete :( Dec 15 14:40:58 ta daa Dec 15 14:40:59 Disconnect: i assume they are aware of the issue? Dec 15 14:41:25 its literally a one line fix that isn't in the (still outdated) public repos and that tmob didn't bother to pick up for the 3 g1 updates they've pushed. Dec 15 14:41:55 best recommendation right now is k-9 or ..damn. there is another one that is also forked from email, to add idle support. personally, i use k-9. Dec 15 14:42:06 k-9 ? Dec 15 14:42:16 (and sometime today i hope to have an "essential software" article up to match the accessories/hardware article i put up over the weekend) Dec 15 14:42:31 gmail use gmail :/ Dec 15 14:42:54 ..huh? Dec 15 14:43:04 blau-MikeDG: i use gmail ... just can't use gmail for work Dec 15 14:44:06 Disconnect: and K-9 works as expected? Dec 15 14:44:11 yep Dec 15 14:44:17 got some other nice features too Dec 15 14:45:59 Disconnect can u give a link to your arcitle? Dec 15 14:46:16 wheres the article Dec 15 14:46:27 http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/essential-g1adp1-accessories Dec 15 14:47:20 all of my apps should be on there Dec 15 14:47:20 thanks Dec 15 14:48:01 thats the hw. haven't done the sw one yet. Dec 15 14:48:51 anyone manage to get j2merunner to run the new gmail app? Dec 15 14:48:51 I seem to be havingtrouble with sandisk 8gb card? have you heard of any other people with problems? Dec 15 14:50:01 Disconnect: holy crap, K-9 has exchange support ... nice :) Dec 15 14:50:10 * maxamillion slaps exchange for its epic insolence Dec 15 14:50:15 stupid work email server Dec 15 14:50:41 Could some body help with me the regarding wifi on Android. Dec 15 14:50:56 I want to add wifi_loader as service to init.rc file.. Dec 15 14:51:09 are you on a dev phone? Dec 15 14:51:19 yup Dec 15 14:51:33 I am able to load driver through commandline Dec 15 14:52:00 now I want to hook it to the android gui. For that I have edited the /hardware/libhardware/wifi.c file Dec 15 14:52:12 for the .ko path and wlan_loader binary.. Dec 15 14:52:44 But somehow once the wlan_loader is loaded, the android hangs.. Dec 15 14:53:07 pastebin your file, how are you doing it? Dec 15 14:53:22 insmod file.ko Dec 15 14:53:45 you mean the wifi.c file??? Dec 15 14:54:08 one sec Dec 15 14:54:29 I am doubting the entry in init.rc Dec 15 14:54:35 i have entered like this Dec 15 14:54:53 service wlan_loader /system/bin/wlan_loader Dec 15 14:54:54 user root Dec 15 14:55:08 group root wifi Dec 15 14:55:14 disabled Dec 15 14:55:15 oneshot Dec 15 14:55:21 back Dec 15 14:56:47 mib_dpvv1f: use pastebin Dec 15 14:57:39 sorry.. one sec Dec 15 15:02:45 http://embed.mibbit.com/pb/90 Dec 15 15:02:55 I have pasted in pastebin Dec 15 15:04:31 Hi michaelnovakjr_: Dec 15 15:04:47 your pastebin doesn't work Dec 15 15:05:24 sorry.. i will try again.. Dec 15 15:05:36 http://embed.mibbit.com/pb/rKVbCC Dec 15 15:05:59 this time its successful.. pls check it.. Dec 15 15:06:09 FAQ updated with info on Saurik's new Market browser website: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ#Market (IE: You can now browse the market from your PC just like you can from a phone) His site is here: http://www.cyrket.com/ (Very nice job by Saurik) Dec 15 15:06:26 I dont know whether I have to add more members to the group Dec 15 15:07:13 mib_dpvv1f: one sec Dec 15 15:07:41 nice Dec 15 15:08:46 and now the rest of the world can share in the joy that is marketplace comments Dec 15 15:10:03 Disconnect: k-9 doesn't delete either Dec 15 15:10:25 it does for me Dec 15 15:10:26 maxamillion: k9 is a port, i don't think everything works Dec 15 15:10:32 it didn't work for me Dec 15 15:10:45 sorry, k9 is a fork** Dec 15 15:10:50 rgr Dec 15 15:10:55 of the builtin email app Dec 15 15:11:08 michaelnovakjr_: right Dec 15 15:11:15 michaelnovakjr_: and the built in email app sucks ass Dec 15 15:11:24 yea, i just use gmail Dec 15 15:11:51 not an option for me, i kinda need to be able to get work email on my mobile device Dec 15 15:12:04 good morning michaelnovakjr_ Dec 15 15:12:10 eh, that sucks... my work email is on my other phone, so to me its not a big deal Dec 15 15:12:12 sup Dougie187 Dec 15 15:12:24 i just tested and it deleted. opened k-9, logpress, 'delete', hit 'refresh' and then checked onthe server and it was marked deleted Dec 15 15:12:24 not too much. yourself? Dec 15 15:12:38 not much Dec 15 15:13:07 Disconnect: it deletes from the k-9 view, but when i log into the web interface for my mail account on my work's setup ... its still there Dec 15 15:13:28 maxamillion: its there but is it marked deleted? Dec 15 15:13:57 Disconnect: nope, not marked anything Dec 15 15:14:40 "1209 OD Dec 15 The Body Shop ( 0) Stocking Stuffers for" (from mutt, on the server.) and it took 30 secs or so for tbird to notice but its flagged NEW,DELETED there as well Dec 15 15:15:49 Disconnect: i'm interfacing with works exchange07 setup using imap ... so its possible its a fault of the email system, it does suck rather hard Dec 15 15:16:23 dunno for the imap->exchange thing. i'm testing with a fairly standard imaps dovecot server using actual accounts and maildir Dec 15 15:17:33 yeah, we used to have dovecot and imap goodness, but then we went VoIP and people wanted unified messaging, and blah blah Dec 15 15:19:33 Hello! I have just received Android Dev Phone 1, and I'd like to make a backup of the firmware that's there now - how can I do that? Dec 15 15:19:44 Hadaka: where do you live? Dec 15 15:19:56 yo hodags Dec 15 15:20:02 djc: finland Dec 15 15:20:12 oh, nice, it's coming to Europe! Dec 15 15:23:15 Hadaka: fyi we have the image already on my site Dec 15 15:23:25 http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/android-dev-phone-1-software-image Dec 15 15:24:32 Disconnect: how was that obtained? Dec 15 15:24:58 jf grabbed it off his adp1 and bundled it into an update.zip Dec 15 15:29:01 Disconnect: with the tetherbot limitation. you meant 80K as in kilobytes / s ? Dec 15 15:29:19 tetherbot isn't mine. Dec 15 15:29:50 Disconnect: just to be on the safe side - that image contains all the "proprietary" stuff as well, right? Dec 15 15:29:50 bluetooth tethering is limited to 80kbyte/sec because the bt chip is running at 115200. Dec 15 15:29:59 Hadaka: its a complete dump. Dec 15 15:30:04 Disconnect: ahh, yea that makes more sense. Dec 15 15:30:05 good. Dec 15 15:30:16 Disconnect: i'm guessing bt tethering requires root? Dec 15 15:30:24 and one of these days (soon?) teh goog is gonna offer up the same image (maybe in a signed NBH) for recovery Dec 15 15:31:30 unix_lappy: http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/second-g1-story-proper-bluetooth-tethering-how-short Dec 15 15:32:20 * unix_lappy patiently twiddles thumb for a rc30 hack. Dec 15 15:32:31 * michaelnovakjr_ joins unix_lappy Dec 15 15:32:40 heh Dec 15 15:33:03 for development purposes, not just so i have root.... i could care less about that :) Dec 15 15:34:39 yeah it would be nice Dec 15 15:34:47 I want a spraindroid phone Dec 15 15:35:09 michaelnovakjr_: meh, you could always get a devphone ;-) Dec 15 15:35:19 yea, i'm thinking about i Dec 15 15:35:19 t Dec 15 15:36:56 Disconnect: in case you were curious, it is actually an exchange issue Dec 15 15:37:16 Disconnect: i just spoke with our exchange admin and apparently it doesn't do imap very well Dec 15 15:37:32 nice Dec 15 15:37:47 i just deleted my imap account and reset it up with webdav. seems to work ok. Dec 15 15:37:53 (for my work email) Dec 15 15:38:35 Disconnect: i tried it with webdav at first, but it never loaded ... is it just slower to setup? Dec 15 15:39:33 might be Dec 15 15:40:01 its hard to test here because it needs to be outside the wifi - doesn't resolve properly inside :( Dec 15 15:40:24 hrrmm... Dec 15 15:40:28 i'm trying webdav again Dec 15 15:40:33 maybe it will work this time Dec 15 15:40:48 is there any way to make the emulator start the debugger and jump to the crash causing code when a crash happens? Dec 15 15:41:21 mikey|: if you mean in java, just start in debug mode. Dec 15 15:41:23 mikey|: switch to ddms view in eclipse Dec 15 15:41:43 and yeah, unhandled exceptions will show up with stacktraces in ddms Dec 15 15:42:48 Oh I hate users not reading the readme, faqs and whatever more Dec 15 15:43:03 anno^da_: this is their default mode Dec 15 15:44:02 depending on what it is, if it needs all that its too complicated.. Dec 15 15:44:27 Ahhhh, Clover-machine coffee. Dec 15 15:44:32 "here's a 500 page dissertation you need to read in order to understand how to use this app to send an sms"...fail Dec 15 15:45:06 morrildl: morning Dec 15 15:45:26 Disconnect: yeah, the webdav failed again ... back to messing with imap Dec 15 15:45:43 hoy morrildl Dec 15 15:45:45 "failed"? Dec 15 15:45:50 thats certainly descriptive.. Dec 15 15:46:01 romainguy: welcome back :) Dec 15 15:46:05 morning all Dec 15 15:46:11 is romainguy actually back? Dec 15 15:46:17 I'm in France Dec 15 15:46:20 Ok, so I noticed my G1 was getting unusually warm in my pocket, so I pulled it out (the G1, that is) and noticed that the battery was half empty (it was fully charged 2 hrs ago). I'm assuming there was some runaway process or something that was eating up the CPU. Has anyone else experienced this? Dec 15 15:46:20 but I'm back to work :p Dec 15 15:46:22 yeah that's what I thought Dec 15 15:46:30 Eric will be in Paris on Tuesday Dec 15 15:46:34 romainguy: I got a question is there really no broadcast sent for incoming calls ? Dec 15 15:46:43 anno^da_: I have no idea Dec 15 15:46:45 savid: yah but remember that all appss are perfect and never need to be killed or restarted.. :) Dec 15 15:46:50 morrildl: doh, if I had known... Dec 15 15:47:13 romainguy: no problem. :) Dec 15 15:47:14 Disconnect, yeah, I sense a little sarcasm there :-P Dec 15 15:47:22 just ask teh goog Dec 15 15:47:28 vol: Yeah I know that it just sometimes pisses me off. You write in the readme "this application will not work all the time since the service could get killed by the Android system" - user: "Will you fix the bug that the service is always available". :( I hate that. :D Dec 15 15:47:29 anno^da_ sadly, that is the case Dec 15 15:47:43 anno^da_: we are looking into fixing that in a future version Dec 15 15:47:47 anno^da_: you can never expect the user to read anything. Dec 15 15:47:53 Your best bet is to force their face on it Dec 15 15:47:59 and even then you might get 20% of the users Dec 15 15:48:01 am i dumb or is it intentional that you can't upgrade software from the "my downloads" section of the market Dec 15 15:48:23 actually, that sounds entirely reasonable and like an oversight Dec 15 15:48:38 (thoraxe that is) Dec 15 15:48:44 morrildl: thank you for that. So there is no other way to as using a service for getting LED notifications on missed calls right? (for my missed calls app which sometimes stops to work since the service got killed by the system :( ) Dec 15 15:48:53 anno: well, thats not as bad as you tell people in 4 different places that they must disable the original sms nortification so they dont get two Dec 15 15:49:06 and then get dozens of emails asking why they get 2 notifications for every sms Dec 15 15:49:29 Though, to repeat my question here (since #android-dev is talking about the trunk and ignoring me), in the LocationListener interface, will onStatusChanged get called if you lose your GPS fix? Dec 15 15:49:33 vol: actually imight be wrong about that Dec 15 15:49:36 I have never told anyone anything about disabling sms notify Dec 15 15:49:43 blau-MikeDG: you make dg alert? Dec 15 15:49:46 vol: repeating your question won't bring an answer :) Dec 15 15:50:10 it will if it's in another, more active location Dec 15 15:50:48 mib: yeah Dec 15 15:50:55 anno^da_: in 1.0, that is correct Dec 15 15:51:03 morrildl: thank you again. Dec 15 15:51:07 Is it possible to have the alert LED flash when plugged in to usb? Dec 15 15:51:17 You just get the orange charging light :( Dec 15 15:51:19 mib_13x5fg: it is not. Dec 15 15:51:48 Does the system totally override it? Dec 15 15:51:57 some kind of harware logic? Dec 15 15:52:09 Well there is no broadcast where you could override the charging LED Dec 15 15:52:35 what happens if you set the LEd status when the led is orange to signify charging.? Dec 15 15:52:40 Is it the same LED's? Dec 15 15:53:30 wow steel is slick Dec 15 15:53:41 keyboard is hit or miss but the browser (with hidden menus and such) is pretty nice Dec 15 15:53:57 Disconnect: better than the builtin browser? Dec 15 15:53:58 they got the on screen kb out Dec 15 15:53:58 ? Dec 15 15:54:12 mib_13x5fg: no, Steel implemented a custom one Dec 15 15:54:16 has anyone else found in here that sometimes when you try to do a google search by just typing that you end up on a google mobile page that has no search box on it? Dec 15 15:54:26 Disconnect: agreed, Steel is pretty awesome Dec 15 15:54:30 yeah thats what I meant. Was not finished when i last used it Dec 15 15:55:24 grrr, so a self compiled kernel is seeing an issue with the monotonic clock. why is it counting from the epoch... Dec 15 15:55:45 thoraxe: somewhat yah. same webkit stuff but the interface (esp in fullscreen) is much slicker, its got a mediocre onscreen haptic keyboard and a reasonable set of options/settings Dec 15 15:55:48 thoraxe: that happens to me often Dec 15 15:56:12 mmarker: what do you mean? Dec 15 15:56:20 mmarker: what else would it count from? Dec 15 15:56:32 steel is still pretty buggy. Dec 15 15:56:42 but overall it's pretty decent. Dec 15 15:56:57 im making the steel killer! sorta Dec 15 15:57:03 I do experience the "missing searchbox problem" on my phone. Dec 15 15:57:36 I have no solution, but I haven't looked. Dec 15 15:57:42 morrildl: Is it right that not even the onDestroy method comes to an end when the service gets killed by the system? Dec 15 15:57:54 anno^da_: yes Dec 15 15:58:18 anno^da_: in general, onStop() and onDestroy() will only be called if your Activity gets finish() called on it, or calls it on itself Dec 15 15:58:35 (ditto for Service's onDestroy). Dec 15 15:58:36 sanmehat: true, but looking at the Android source for battery info, it seems to make an assumption the monotonic count is from system boot, not epoch Dec 15 15:58:37 anno^da_: in all other cases, the process is eligible to be shut down any time after onPause() Dec 15 15:58:45 which seems odd to me Dec 15 15:59:08 mmarker: where do you see this? Dec 15 15:59:36 anno^da_: onSaveInstanceState(Bundle) is intended to save your UI state (such as state of a partially-filled-in form) and onPause() is intended to be used to save app data to persistent storage, if necessary Dec 15 15:59:38 mmarker: if the user changes the date/time on their phone, the duration wince the epoch will change. Dec 15 15:59:49 morrildl: so onPause gets called in the service is that right? (when it gets killed by the system= Dec 15 16:00:10 anno^da_: in the Service, I don't think that anything gets called. Dec 15 16:00:12 * morrildl doesn't remember the service lifecycle that well -- does Service even have an onPause? Dec 15 16:00:25 Well yeah Dec 15 16:00:29 it has none :P Dec 15 16:00:34 It's in the fundamental nature of the service that it can get killed at any time. Dec 15 16:00:35 (confused sorryy) Dec 15 16:00:45 * morrildl doesn't know why he is emoting in the third person Dec 15 16:01:02 :) Dec 15 16:01:11 * SenatorBobDole is a master of emotes Dec 15 16:01:16 hm. I just found the first thing I miss. my last cell had a pretty cool blogger photo-blogging thing Dec 15 16:01:18 Ok thanks guys. Dec 15 16:01:20 Haha morrildl Dec 15 16:01:43 So I can tell the users it is not possible at the moment. No matter if the believe it or not. :D Dec 15 16:01:51 +y Dec 15 16:02:17 can you have multiple, concurrent adb commands? For example a shell and a push? Dec 15 16:02:25 yes Dec 15 16:02:25 jbq: i thought the monotonic clock ticked time from system start on. The time portion of the kernel has most bewildered me, so i'm most likely missing something. Dec 15 16:04:17 romainguy: thanks Dec 15 16:07:54 does android include voice recognition libs? or is that tm-only? Dec 15 16:09:21 There are libs in Android itself, but no public APIs in 1.0. Dec 15 16:10:20 Are there any apps that let me see what processes are using the most CPU? Dec 15 16:11:00 savid: if you shell you can use "top" Dec 15 16:12:19 jbq: I've not found any voice dial app in the dev phone. Is this on purpose? Can it be installed? Dec 15 16:12:41 BlindOracle, "Top" doesn't seem to work very well in the terminal emulator app. It doesn't seem to replace screen output when it updates, it only appends to the screen output, making it impossible to see the top of the output Dec 15 16:12:49 BlindOracle: I don't know, sorry. Dec 15 16:13:05 "???? Wut the fuk is this steven is a gay ass fagot! Steven likes cock in his ass and mouth!" Dec 15 16:13:11 hey, what's the proper way to open the back cover of the devphone? the t-mo start guide suggests opening the screen, and then pulling on the tab on the left side. while that does disengage the one side of the back cover, the other side seems quite stuck. Dec 15 16:13:27 It seems rather fragile and I *really* don't want to break it. :P Dec 15 16:13:47 savid: you can always use ps Dec 15 16:15:49 savid: I say that, it doesn't look like ps supports cpu Dec 15 16:15:52 BlindOracle, I don't think ps shows cpu Dec 15 16:18:23 savid: what os you using? Linux? Dec 15 16:18:42 BlindOracle, ummm, android :-p Dec 15 16:19:04 BlindOracle, but my desktop OS is linux, if that's what you're asking :) Dec 15 16:19:16 ermmmm, where is the microusb port on the g1/devphone? Dec 15 16:19:34 at the bottom Dec 15 16:19:36 I can't figure out where to plug in the charger. I feel dumb. Dec 15 16:19:38 bottom. menu button to trackball then down around that corner Dec 15 16:19:43 All I see there is the HTC port. Dec 15 16:19:44 there's a rectangular dust cover Dec 15 16:19:46 Leeds: ?? Dec 15 16:19:49 that's a USB port Dec 15 16:19:49 ..thats it Dec 15 16:19:53 hmm, it seems stell doesnt do trackball. Dec 15 16:20:01 steel* Dec 15 16:20:02 morrildl: market comment Dec 15 16:20:02 Disconnect, yeah, the microusb cable doesn't fit in that jack. it's the special HTC jack. Dec 15 16:20:09 Leeds: ah Dec 15 16:20:16 ..yes it does Dec 15 16:20:18 turn it over Dec 15 16:20:19 yeah, the microusb plug does fit in that socket Dec 15 16:20:20 seriously Dec 15 16:20:23 Isn't it extusb? Dec 15 16:20:25 OHHHHHHHHH Dec 15 16:20:32 heh :-) Dec 15 16:20:42 savid: just create a terminal window and make it larger - or scroll back - or redirect output of your top out to a file and periodically load the output. Or run it from an emacs shell (what I do) and you have everything in a buffer, making it searchable and scrollable Dec 15 16:21:35 ..so don't feel dumb for not finding it, but you can feel free to feel dumb for not turning the connector the right way round :) Dec 15 16:21:37 BlindOracle, are you saying I can view the phone's terminal from my desktop? Dec 15 16:21:47 Leeds: ah. It will get removed in due course Dec 15 16:21:50 savid: get adb and run "adb shell" Dec 15 16:21:57 ahh Dec 15 16:21:59 savid: most term windows will allow you to scroll back by pretty shift + page up Dec 15 16:22:13 savid: yes Dec 15 16:22:19 that's the part I was missing :) Dec 15 16:22:21 morrildl: along with every single comment in the entire market containing the word 'first'? :-) Dec 15 16:22:24 said: ya...what Disconnect said Dec 15 16:22:56 savid: most term windows will allow you to scroll back by pushing shift + page up Dec 15 16:23:19 Leeds: Fortunately the intersection of the "first psot" set with the profanity set is pretty high :) Dec 15 16:24:02 you know the little drunk emailing test in gmail labs? Dec 15 16:24:23 wonder how hard it'd be to add something like that to the market... Dec 15 16:24:55 "if you can't solve 3+5=? you are too dumb to comment" Dec 15 16:25:37 I think once paid apps hit the Market you'll see less of the nonsense that goes on now Dec 15 16:26:17 Well, it comes down to: pre-review or post-review Dec 15 16:26:33 We are post-reviewing, because we don't want to be filtering people's comments. Dec 15 16:26:48 orospakr, I've connected a standard non-HTC micro-usb cable to my HTC, and it was able to communicate w/ my computer just fine Dec 15 16:27:22 yeah, I just found that out. :) Dec 15 16:27:35 .."flag this comment" Dec 15 16:27:38 morrildl: rather you than me, but that's fair enough :-) Dec 15 16:27:39 The HTC "Ext USB" port is HTC proprietary, but is based off of micro (or mini?) usb standard, the only difference being it adds audio Dec 15 16:27:41 I will agree that the quality of many comments is indeed surprisingly low, even by our experience :) Dec 15 16:27:44 i had a htc ppc6800 for like 6 months before realising normal usbs fit in it Dec 15 16:27:50 So non-htc cables will work with it Dec 15 16:27:51 also, hmm. I don't have a good data plan yet. Is it possible to avoid it doing the google account sync until I've connected to an 802.11 network? Dec 15 16:27:53 savid: it adds a ton of stuff (10 pin vs 4 pin) but yah Dec 15 16:27:56 Disconnect: yeah that is under consideration too Dec 15 16:28:33 with actual consequences "sorry, you can't use the android marketplace until you get a parent or guardian to beat you and submit video proof." Dec 15 16:28:34 Is it possible that a broadcast sent via sendBroadcast gets caught 3 times by the receiver ? Dec 15 16:28:36 coming from the Sidekick the Market comments don't surprise me in the least bit Dec 15 16:28:52 savid: i hear the blackberry curve charger works fine with the G1. Dec 15 16:28:58 <[nine]> Disconnect: it's 11 pin isn't it? Dec 15 16:29:00 At any rate, you guys should in general have seen a pretty marked improvement in the comments, since we started taking down offensive ones. But since it's post-review, there is indeed a window where they will be live Dec 15 16:29:01 orospakr: I *think* you have to do it OTA Dec 15 16:29:07 "OTA"? Dec 15 16:29:09 orospakr: at this point I don't think so - you need a data-enabled sim to go through setup. Dec 15 16:29:12 over the air? Dec 15 16:29:14 over the air, yes Dec 15 16:29:16 dang Dec 15 16:29:20 <[nine]> unix_lappy: it would pretty much have to. the uk model doesn't have the htc-type plug on the charger - it's a regular usb type cable. Dec 15 16:29:35 you can easily do it with non-3G, non-tmob SIMs though Dec 15 16:29:45 orospakr: there is a way to activate over wifi Dec 15 16:29:49 Disconnect, ooh? Dec 15 16:29:57 gonna have to google it tho, the bot that holds that sort of url is banned Dec 15 16:30:13 yeah, I've been able to charge my phone using the standard micro-usb cable . (Is it micro or mini?) Dec 15 16:30:18 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=452316 Dec 15 16:30:20 :p Dec 15 16:30:27 * JesusFreke did his bot duty for the day Dec 15 16:31:06 I have a cable to charge/data at work, and a cable to charge/data at home - and I don't even know which one is the HTC one Dec 15 16:31:10 oh, is adb enabled and root on the unlocked devices? Dec 15 16:31:29 jbq: yes and no Dec 15 16:31:36 jbq: yeah I've been wondering that. I haven't been able to get a clear answer on whether it's an eng build on those things Dec 15 16:31:37 Disconnect: random side note, i know its pay for ... but if anyone needs exchange, this looks good --->> http://www.nitrodesk.com/index.aspx Dec 15 16:31:40 but su is available Dec 15 16:31:45 can JNI be used to call back into the JVM? Dec 15 16:31:48 Disconnect: i'm gonna do their free trial and see how it is Dec 15 16:32:00 maxamillion: webdav is being a little weird for me flags-wise but in general its been working Dec 15 16:32:06 Disconnect: ah, well then there's my answer :) Dec 15 16:32:32 Ah, ok. Perfect :) Dec 15 16:32:35 Disconnect, banned? how did that happen? Dec 15 16:32:58 orospakr: google meanies got annoyed at the poor defenseless bot and kicked him Dec 15 16:33:26 Disconnect: didn't work at all for me, and i've missed about 60 emails so far in the last 12 hours, at this point i'd rather just pay the $30 and be on my way Dec 15 16:33:31 Leeds, meanies indeed! Dec 15 16:33:44 orospakr: the one we had (infobot) had legitimate issues (public logging, speaking otu of turn, being full of 1.2 million pieces of useless crap) but they banned the replacements too. the answer was "someone might abuse it" .. (although by that rule, soon we won't have to worry about market comments cuz there won't be any.....) Dec 15 16:34:08 I remember infobot being useful... Dec 15 16:34:10 oh well. Dec 15 16:34:29 and abused Dec 15 16:34:38 orospakr: on the other hand, Disconnect has been moaning disproportionately ever since Dec 15 16:34:48 wait a minute @ disconnect... no comments? Dec 15 16:35:01 * Disconnect didn't start this mess, he just answered a question. Dec 15 16:35:06 lol Dec 15 16:35:23 heatx: well, someone might abuse them. (more to the point, someone -did- abuse them, so that should carry enough weight...) Dec 15 16:35:52 Disconnect: you brought it up Dec 15 16:37:17 i think they should moniter the comments Dec 15 16:37:47 it's funny how on that live feed of the guy talking about android they said they have a computer set up in the lunch room of the android offices and people walk by and delete stupid comments Dec 15 16:38:16 lol Dec 15 16:38:40 haha Dec 15 16:38:43 that's an excellent idea Dec 15 16:39:02 a better solution is a "3 strikes" rule, where if you make 3 stupid, deletable comments, you're banned from leaving more comments. Dec 15 16:39:03 but it think there should be some kind of registration and approval system put in place Dec 15 16:39:11 yeah, agreed Dec 15 16:40:20 Yeah, we are looking into all that Dec 15 16:40:59 morrildl: you with google? Dec 15 16:41:07 We knew there would be stupid comments, but we didn't realize how many ;) Dec 15 16:41:12 his whois says yes :P Dec 15 16:41:13 I'd like to meet one of these people who post "first" in real life. Just to see what they look like. Dec 15 16:41:22 hahah Dec 15 16:41:24 cbeust_: hahaha Dec 15 16:41:24 hmm, I'm a little worried now; when I click "Track Order" on the brightstarcorp site, it says I haven't ordered anything Dec 15 16:41:25 cbeust_: skinny and gangly Dec 15 16:41:31 pale, from B12 deficiency Dec 15 16:41:34 And then ask them "Why?" Dec 15 16:41:41 but I'm pretty sure Bright Star took my money... Dec 15 16:41:42 "... for the lulz, duh" Dec 15 16:51:55 djc, lots of people have that problem. Dec 15 17:01:03 is there a way to re-index _id after deleting item from the database? Dec 15 17:01:48 dd94300: hm, why would you do that? Dec 15 17:03:35 bez i am populating items from the database using ListView and i have onListItemClick() i want to delete that item from the database but position returns the index of the List Array Dec 15 17:04:09 you shouldn't reindex your tables Dec 15 17:04:28 that sounds bda Dec 15 17:04:35 you shouldn't give an existing item a new id Dec 15 17:06:43 oh! random question ... the IM client on the G1, does that use my data plan or my SMS text messages? Dec 15 17:06:49 you should use something other than the id for your position Dec 15 17:06:55 is the constant wifi disconnects and reconnects on an idle g1 intended? Dec 15 17:07:11 maxamillion: AIM uses SMS Dec 15 17:07:19 not sure about the other protocols Dec 15 17:07:22 BlindOracle: yes. saves power. Dec 15 17:07:40 BlindOracle: Yes. I wrote that. :) Dec 15 17:07:48 jbq: how does causing additional wifi traffic save battery? Dec 15 17:07:55 ttuttle: cool Dec 15 17:07:58 :) Dec 15 17:08:00 BlindOracle: Having the wifi radio turned on at all saps quite a bit of energy. Dec 15 17:08:05 BlindOracle: Yeah. (Interns rock.) Dec 15 17:08:30 What I'm observing here doesn't seem to be a battery saving effort Dec 15 17:08:59 BlindOracle: It was intended as one. We didn't want the wifi staying on for hours at a time when the user wasn't using the phone to do anything that needed wifi. Dec 15 17:08:59 it appears to go idle - disconnection - immediately reconnect - key negotiate - go idle - repeat Dec 15 17:09:01 maxamillion: all IM protocols go over the data connection. The non-Gtalk ones are billed as messages, like SMS. Dec 15 17:09:11 ttuttle: agreed that's ideal Dec 15 17:09:15 BlindOracle: sounds like a bug. Dec 15 17:09:16 BlindOracle: Oh... it shouldn't reconnect. Dec 15 17:09:21 BlindOracle: Yeah, what jbq said. Dec 15 17:09:50 want me to pastbin my logs here? Dec 15 17:10:14 ..wlan power saving might be a better um.. power savings.. than constantly renegotiating wifi. (although it is a lot faster/more reliable w/ wpa1 vs wpa2.. but still..) Dec 15 17:10:31 * ttuttle tries to repro with a dogfood build. Dec 15 17:10:42 * BlindOracle is using wpa1 here Dec 15 17:10:57 * ttuttle locks screen and waits 2 minutes. Dec 15 17:11:26 might this have something to do with location information? Dec 15 17:11:41 BlindOracle: Hmm... Dec 15 17:11:50 BlindOracle: It shouldn't. Dec 15 17:11:53 I keep seeing these: D/LocationMasfClient( 52): getNetworkLocation(): Returning cache location with accuracy 150.0 Dec 15 17:12:01 BlindOracle: Yeah, that's a cached location. Dec 15 17:12:04 ok Dec 15 17:12:09 BlindOracle: (I think.) Dec 15 17:12:34 * ttuttle curses having removed *all* of the debug logging that he added. Dec 15 17:12:38 with no bluetooth API's currently available, is anyone clear on how one could enable/disable bluetooth? Dec 15 17:12:48 * BlindOracle assumed it was cached but I'm seeing lots of it right before the, "V/WifiMonitor( 52): Event [CTRL-EVENT-DRIVER-STATE STOPPED]", output Dec 15 17:13:28 I guess it could just be aligned timers firing and it has nothing to do with wifi stuff Dec 15 17:13:30 BlindOracle: So, mine appears to have just shut the wifi off (Changing supplicant state: COMPLETED ==> DISCONNECTED, then Deconfiguring interface and stopping DHCP) Dec 15 17:13:47 BlindOracle: And then a few things shut off, and Gtalk restarts (presumably on the cell radio). Dec 15 17:13:52 hmmm....by any chance you using using the locale app? Dec 15 17:13:56 BlindOracle: Nope. Dec 15 17:14:09 BlindOracle: I can try with that, if you think that's causing it. Dec 15 17:14:10 * BlindOracle wonders if the finger should point there Dec 15 17:14:37 BlindOracle: Apple was right. Background apps can cause trouble. (You'll still have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.) Dec 15 17:15:06 hehe...agreed Dec 15 17:15:25 * ttuttle loves his G1 though. Dec 15 17:15:25 there's some real dumb apps out there running in the background for no reason Dec 15 17:15:37 It could crash all the time and I'd still love it. Dec 15 17:15:51 * michaelnovakjr_ is disappointed some developers aren't thinking the simple stuff through Dec 15 17:16:13 michaelnovakjr_: Yeah. There'll always be devs who just don't know the right way yet, or aren't as clever as we might hope. Dec 15 17:16:33 the roaming one was a gem :) Dec 15 17:16:43 *facepalm* Dec 15 17:17:04 hmmm...I'm thinking if may very well be locale doing it Dec 15 17:17:24 haven't tested the newest ver but it used to run the service regardless of whether itw as enabled (sigh) Dec 15 17:17:44 * BlindOracle is re-enabling locale Dec 15 17:17:58 ditto for the fb app (hmm or was it lj? one of the social-media apps was running a service when it wasn't even logged in and was told not to poll..) Dec 15 17:18:24 phone is a bit more usable with 5-6 services disabled. browser still blows everything out of memory btu.. Dec 15 17:18:28 Disconnect: facebook. BTW, that was an *unofficial* Facebook app. Dec 15 17:18:34 Disconnect: /me ..so? Dec 15 17:18:43 Disconnect: Oh, I'm just saying, don't blame Facebook, blame the dev. Dec 15 17:19:03 * Disconnect wasn't blaming facebook... Dec 15 17:19:13 Disconnect: Oh, oaky. Dec 15 17:19:14 *okay Dec 15 17:19:29 * ttuttle tries putting phone to sleep with Locale running. Dec 15 17:21:09 BlindOracle: Damn, you're right! Dec 15 17:21:18 It's doing it again....I'm disabling again and waiting longer to make sure it's locale doing it Dec 15 17:21:23 BlindOracle: Lemme wait and see if it still does it. Dec 15 17:21:26 ok...so you confirmed it then Dec 15 17:21:29 BlindOracle: I think so. Dec 15 17:22:06 not clear to me if locale is directly doing it of if it may be a side effect bug in android. Insight would be welcome. ;) Dec 15 17:22:30 Here's a dumb question; lets say I want a button in my app to emulator pressing the home key. How do I effectively send my app to the background, aside from calling finish() ? Dec 15 17:22:33 ttuttle: does it trigger for you immediately after checking location? Dec 15 17:22:42 Anyone know how I might get a simple C program written to talk to /dev/dsp working within android (on a G1 that happens to be root-enabled) Dec 15 17:22:55 SplasPood: ##c? Dec 15 17:23:05 SplasPood: Or you have it written? Dec 15 17:23:07 ttuttle: its built, its just a matter of how I can talk to /dev/dsp Dec 15 17:23:17 Ie, it works fine on a normal linux box Dec 15 17:23:23 SplasPood: Does Android have a /dev/dsp? Dec 15 17:23:26 yes Dec 15 17:23:32 SplasPood: So open it? Dec 15 17:23:37 ..no Dec 15 17:23:37 * BlindOracle just checked, I don't have a /dev/dsp Dec 15 17:23:43 hrm, I do.. Dec 15 17:23:51 SplasPood: Are you sure you're not looking on the host? Dec 15 17:23:55 it has /dev/adsp/* Dec 15 17:23:55 it doesn't work as one would expect, hence me asking the question, but.. Dec 15 17:23:57 ttuttle: yup Dec 15 17:24:06 Disconnect: oh? didn't see that, lets look again... Dec 15 17:24:07 huh ... TouchDown is quite good, any exchange users who are left out in the dark and don't mind spending $20 ... its quite good :) Dec 15 17:24:19 maxamillion: $20 is no problem. Dec 15 17:24:21 yay at orientation Dec 15 17:24:46 maxamillion: (Exchange users are used to paying $LOTS to make things work. Remember, they bought *Exchange*.) Dec 15 17:24:53 ttuttle: http://www.nitrodesk.com/index.aspx <---- Dec 15 17:24:55 * BlindOracle has /dev/adsp Dec 15 17:25:18 ttuttle: well, my work uses exchange (don't get me started ... we used to run dovecot and things were great) Dec 15 17:26:00 Anyone? Surely, there must be a way to pause the app without calling finish()! Dec 15 17:26:23 ttuttle: should this be reported to locale as a bug or you willing to check into it a little deeper? Dec 15 17:26:23 is this thing on today? : ( Dec 15 17:26:29 * vol taps his keyboard Dec 15 17:26:50 vol: Greetings. Dec 15 17:26:56 vol: use the technique here to inject a 'home' keypress: http://github.com/bradfitz/android-misc/tree/master/type.pl Dec 15 17:26:59 ttuttle: hello. Dec 15 17:27:19 Disconnect: ok, thanks. I was hoping there was a more "official" way :P Dec 15 17:27:56 ... I suspect there has to be a better way than a perl script, especially for something I want to do w/o debugging Dec 15 17:27:57 Interesting read: http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/15/the-myth-of-the-99-cent-killer-app/ Dec 15 17:28:09 i.e. on a standalone device Dec 15 17:29:04 vol: "technique". not "script" Dec 15 17:29:19 * vol takes another, closer look Dec 15 17:29:31 me perl is a little rusty :\ Dec 15 17:31:19 alright, I see what you're getting at. Dec 15 17:31:39 Am I pretty much going to have to do it this way? I am really surprised that there's nothing on the android layer for this. Dec 15 17:31:43 my trombone is a lil rusty Dec 15 17:31:51 iswydt Dec 15 17:32:30 there prolly is something.. Dec 15 17:33:57 Disconnect: hrm yes, I do have /dev/adsp ... that's Alsa, right? Dec 15 17:34:02 no Dec 15 17:34:15 its a directory. Dec 15 17:34:35 its specific to android. you'll need to poke around hte platform source to see how it is used. Dec 15 17:35:16 Ahh Dec 15 17:41:48 ttuttle: I emailed the locale guys asking for feedback on the wifi behavior Dec 15 17:42:51 BlindOracle: Okay. Dec 15 17:43:00 BlindOracle: /me isn't really sure what turned the wifi back on. Dec 15 17:43:33 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Instrumentation.html Dec 15 17:43:40 Would this be a possible solution to my problem? Dec 15 17:43:41 ttuttle: ok. local attempts to detect location changes so I'm wondering if they keep the wifi up to detect location changes when gps is disabled Dec 15 17:43:54 Could I send the "home" key from here, or is there an issue with that I'm not aware of yet Dec 15 17:43:59 ttuttle: was your gps turned off? Dec 15 17:44:12 BlindOracle: Hmm, I don't think so. Dec 15 17:44:23 ttuttle: you have gps signal? Dec 15 17:44:28 BlindOracle: I didn't, no. Dec 15 17:45:02 ttuttle: I believe you should have gps icon when you have gps signal Dec 15 17:45:30 BlindOracle: Yeah, the icon blinks if it's acquiring the signal, and it's solid once it has acquired it. Dec 15 17:47:32 is there a way to see the receiving time of SMS's in the default messaging app? Dec 15 17:47:56 I can only see "Dec 11" - but can't find the time Dec 15 17:49:20 and from the same topic - can I see the SMSC used to send the SMS from somewhere? Dec 15 17:50:35 ah, ok.. found the first one - press&hold on the message -> View message details Dec 15 17:51:08 another one - can I add the number to my contacts from the Messaging app? Dec 15 17:57:19 tauno: programatically? Dec 15 17:58:21 not programmatically, long click on the individual message and select view message details Dec 15 18:08:24 Disconnect, alas, I'm having no luck finding info on activating over wifi. Dec 15 18:08:38 turns out I just get an error and can't activate over gsm even if I wanted to. Dec 15 18:09:29 I'm not sure what the best terms to google for are. Dec 15 18:09:30 its doable, there is a link somewhere that walks through it Dec 15 18:09:49 this isn't the thing that involves "a friend's t-mobile sim card", is it? Dec 15 18:10:12 is JNI a bi-directional interface and does it work with android? Dec 15 18:10:27 no Dec 15 18:10:34 Disconnect: k Dec 15 18:10:40 :( Dec 15 18:10:42 not you, orospakr Dec 15 18:10:47 oh, ok Dec 15 18:10:55 Disconnect, any terms I should try searching for? Dec 15 18:10:56 jni works with android, kinda. unsupported, etc etc. Dec 15 18:11:06 there's a ton of info out there about it from the lists Dec 15 18:11:27 Disconnect: I was hoping to call back into the VM via JNI. Does that work? Does JNI even support that? Dec 15 18:11:34 no idea Dec 15 18:11:36 k Dec 15 18:12:56 BlindOracle: yes, it works. Dec 15 18:13:02 it's a little funny, though. Dec 15 18:13:10 Lets say you make a call from the android layer to the native layer. Dec 15 18:13:24 You cannot call back from the native layer while you're still making your android call, at least not to that thread. Dec 15 18:13:26 vol: you can call back into the VM via JNI?! Dec 15 18:13:29 yes, we do it. Dec 15 18:13:34 BlindOracle: JNI calls work both directions Dec 15 18:13:47 vol: ? Dec 15 18:13:48 fadden: wow...excellent... Dec 15 18:13:54 fadden: in our code Dec 15 18:13:56 (not yours) Dec 15 18:13:59 I assume some type of lock must be grabbed or something like that? Dec 15 18:14:01 (well, I'm sure you do it too?) Dec 15 18:14:07 or does JNI handle that? Dec 15 18:14:12 BlindOracle: not as such, it's a little wild. Dec 15 18:14:18 Lock on what? Dec 15 18:14:19 you kind of have to handle synchronizing some things yourself. Dec 15 18:14:42 when you make a JNI call from Android to Native, you will pass the current thread, as well as the object that you're making the native call on Dec 15 18:14:47 You can call MonitorEnter to do exactly what "synchronized" does Dec 15 18:14:58 you can take that JNIEnv, and keep it around, and use it to perform callbacks with Dec 15 18:15:00 okay, so to be clear, a native application can asynchronously call back into the VM via JNI Dec 15 18:15:04 yes. Dec 15 18:15:14 and the user is responsible for any associated locking Dec 15 18:15:19 the trouble is trying to call back into the VM while you're making a call FROM the VM, on the same thread. Dec 15 18:15:28 BlindOracle: the thread must be associated with the VM -- "JNIEnv" is thread-specific -- but you can create the thread outside the VM and then attach it. Dec 15 18:15:36 vol: what's the trouble? Dec 15 18:15:44 vol: excellent! Thanks! Dec 15 18:15:55 fadden: nothing we haven't solved. Dec 15 18:15:59 (I wrote our JNI implementation) Dec 15 18:16:06 We were trying to make a callback inside of our init JNI call, which was silly :P Dec 15 18:16:10 also, crashtastic. Dec 15 18:16:11 bbl, lunch Dec 15 18:16:24 fadden: nice. I imagine I'll be asking more questions down the road. Right now I'm checking viability Dec 15 18:16:25 Calling out of JNI_OnLoad might get a little weird. Dec 15 18:16:36 fadden: how so? Dec 15 18:16:40 BlindOracle: http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/jni/spec/jniTOC.html Dec 15 18:16:45 anyone know how that market browser site works? Dec 15 18:17:04 if I have an application (such as http://slideme.org/content/akeyui) that i want to install, can I install it using adb? Dec 15 18:17:31 fadden: thanks...bookmarked Dec 15 18:17:54 nvm, got it Dec 15 18:18:51 DarkriftX: prolly it just proxies over to the market webservers and pretends to be a phone Dec 15 18:19:00 i c Dec 15 18:19:00 Actually, calling out of JNI_OnLoad should work. Dec 15 18:19:16 i though someone tried that and found that the traffic to/from the market was highly encoded Dec 15 18:19:16 There's some fun with getting the class loader right, but that's well-defined. Dec 15 18:28:10 marketbrowser site? Dec 15 18:29:11 cyrket.com Dec 15 18:29:49 very interesting Dec 15 18:30:57 im very confused Dec 15 18:31:13 searching for DG in the market and on cyrket.com produces the same results Dec 15 18:31:21 including the Bank of America one that makes no sense Dec 15 18:31:23 ..yes. it should. Dec 15 18:31:26 heh funny Dec 15 18:31:31 because DG isnt in the title or descriptoin Dec 15 18:32:00 what does the << part mean in something like this: int MAXIMUM_CAPACITY = 1 << 30 Dec 15 18:32:12 leftshift Dec 15 18:32:17 bit shift 1 30 bits to the left Dec 15 18:32:20 ? Dec 15 18:32:28 10000000000000000000000000000000... Dec 15 18:32:42 oh, i see Dec 15 18:32:51 oh figured it out, market searches emails for search text as well Dec 15 18:33:01 so its 00000001 shifted 30 == 00100000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 Dec 15 18:33:02 really Dec 15 18:33:02 boa cust serv is dg.androidcustservice@boa.com Dec 15 18:33:19 thats odd Dec 15 18:33:24 blau-MikeDG: nice Dec 15 18:34:23 I do not get it how you got the new icons help drpuckettg1@gmail.com sighhhh Dec 15 18:34:32 can anyone decipher the above comment? Dec 15 18:34:44 for what app? Dec 15 18:34:55 dgAlert Dec 15 18:35:17 clearly he wants to meet girls and hang out Dec 15 18:35:30 haha Dec 15 18:35:55 lol Dec 15 18:36:53 blau-MikeDG: send him this and see if he goes away: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/attractive_girls_union_refuses_to Dec 15 18:40:45 This is 4 keybrdshortcuts.I like using Anycut app better bc u can shrtct 2 anythng & hv icon on hmscrn.No need to open to keyboard.TOUCHSCRN 4 A REASN siggghhhh again Dec 15 18:56:25 hey, is 512 MB appropriate as a data plan? I don't plan to do any browsing while away from 802.11, really. Dec 15 18:58:55 is unlimited that much more expensive or unavailable? Dec 15 18:59:44 unlimited is a good deal Dec 15 19:00:23 "oops i walked outside and my email app spin in a loop of data, now i owe $2100 :( .." Dec 15 19:00:31 Disconnect: :( Dec 15 19:05:41 good evening :) Dec 15 19:05:45 hi foxdie Dec 15 19:06:11 heya mike, hows it going? Dec 15 19:06:20 pretty good! Dec 15 19:06:47 :) glad to hear it bud Dec 15 19:07:17 the last 3 apps on the android top 50 don't show up in a search on my G1 in the market, am i missing something? Dec 15 19:07:29 well I tried to build uclibc, its being stubborn Dec 15 19:07:40 my stupid search app is turning into a web browser :( Dec 15 19:08:13 how do i check if my database table is empty or not? Dec 15 19:08:23 dd94300, what database? mysql? Dec 15 19:08:36 select all from it and see if count is 0? Dec 15 19:08:43 dd94300: select count(*) Dec 15 19:08:52 yes...SQLite Dec 15 19:08:53 I was gonna say that :) Dec 15 19:09:23 so i have to pass raw query, rt? Dec 15 19:09:36 you dont have to Dec 15 19:09:45 i dont know whats better performance wise though Dec 15 19:09:47 any opinions? Dec 15 19:09:54 hmm, anyone know why if you write a shell script on android, if you try and export a variable, it doesn't keep? Dec 15 19:10:25 Foxdie: the Android shell it pretty limited. Dec 15 19:10:28 cuz android shell is a hacked up thing that is only as functional as it needs to be..? (and maybe not even that) Dec 15 19:11:06 oh ... goCart got renamed, that's why i can't find it Dec 15 19:11:43 well I compiled the latest stable busybox for the G1, I made a new set of folders to do the install (/data/local/bin and /data/local/sbin), I can prefix them to the system path fine, if I do it manually Dec 15 19:11:50 but if I try and create a shell script to do it, nada Dec 15 19:13:16 hey guys Dec 15 19:13:33 wondering if there are apps to read data tags... as opposed to just upc code Dec 15 19:15:24 data tags? Dec 15 19:16:21 androoid: It can read QR codes. Dec 15 19:16:31 Disconnect: Ones containing more data, instead of just a number. Dec 15 19:17:10 anyone know where the environment variable PATH is set on android? Dec 15 19:17:20 Foxdie: /init.rc? Dec 15 19:17:44 hmm, everything in / gets overwritten on reboot doesn'tit? Dec 15 19:17:48 *doesn't it Dec 15 19:17:51 Foxdie: Yeah, a lot of it does. Dec 15 19:18:29 android is a stubborn cow lol Dec 15 19:18:37 Foxdie: Yeah. Dec 15 19:18:48 how would I make a permanent change to init.rc? Dec 15 19:19:06 blau-MikeDG, well, I can pay a bit more to up that to 1, 3, or even 6 G, but that's a lot on a monthly basis. Dec 15 19:19:07 I know I can do it temporarily by remounting / as rw, but that doesn't keep, so where does it get that data from? Dec 15 19:19:14 (Rogers, bleah) Dec 15 19:19:20 Foxdie: I don't think init.rc is overwritten on startup, as init.rc specifies what is overwritten. And it's not usually overwritten as much as just resetting the permissions and recreating directories. Dec 15 19:19:46 sorry, yeah I meant QR codes Dec 15 19:19:49 really? *boing* Dec 15 19:19:53 ttuttle: which app does that? Dec 15 19:20:02 or is there an api call? o_O Dec 15 19:20:06 androoid: Barcode Scanner, in the market. Dec 15 19:20:15 androoid: And you can send Barcode Scanner an intent that it will return with a scanned barcode. Dec 15 19:20:19 androoid, you want an app to read QR codes? barcode scanner Dec 15 19:20:32 heh Dec 15 19:20:52 interesting Dec 15 19:21:47 damn, init.rc is huge Dec 15 19:22:03 don't forget init.trout Dec 15 19:22:28 what a name, lol Dec 15 19:22:33 and goldfish, wtf Dec 15 19:22:37 whothinks up these names :) Dec 15 19:26:13 product codes Dec 15 19:26:26 out of those 3 files Dec 15 19:26:39 which is least likely to change with a software update? Dec 15 19:26:51 Foxdie: None. It'll overwrite all of them. Dec 15 19:27:03 Foxdie: Software updates (generally, so far) blow away the entire filesystem. Dec 15 19:27:12 except /data right? Dec 15 19:27:17 or including /data ? Dec 15 19:29:05 Foxdie: Not sure. I don't think it gets /data, but I'm sure it gets /system. Dec 15 19:30:34 updates don't normally touch /data. Dec 15 19:31:05 They typically touch /system, though whether they blow everything away depends on whether they're full or just incremental. Dec 15 19:32:03 jbq: All of mine have been full, but that may be because they're not production. Dec 15 19:32:51 the production RC30 update was incremental (which allowed to push it out faster). Dec 15 19:33:28 hmm, uncomfortable position to be in Dec 15 19:33:29 jbq: is there a punchline that makes android a platform again? :) Dec 15 19:33:49 I can't store binaries on /sdcard in case it gets ejected Dec 15 19:34:01 the only place I felt it might have been safe would have been something like /data/local/bin Dec 15 19:34:42 ..so? Dec 15 19:34:44 but if thats not safe, then nowhere is :) Dec 15 19:35:05 use /data/bin if you want. or /data/busybox (common). or wrap up a new system image and put htem in /system/xbin Dec 15 19:35:12 so I might as well stop pratting around trying to find a safe way to add things to the path and just edit init.rc directly Dec 15 19:35:28 Foxdie: What are you doing this for? Dec 15 19:36:06 ttuttle, ultimately I guess I'm doing this to satisfy my desire to have a pocket linux device that doesn't skimp on the "good stuff" Dec 15 19:36:15 ie. down and dirty CLI stuff Dec 15 19:36:20 Foxdie: nokia.com/n810 Dec 15 19:36:26 * Foxdie shudders Dec 15 19:36:26 ==Disconnect Dec 15 19:36:57 Foxdie: Why don't you install an engineering bootloader and just put Debian on it? Dec 15 19:36:59 n810 runs android now Dec 15 19:37:32 Sounds like you're interested in the user-space that is typically used on top of linux, not in linux (the kernel) itself, and android has essentially none of that user-space. Dec 15 19:37:35 I'm more of a RHEL person ttuttle, and I quite like android :) Dec 15 19:37:44 i.e. you want GNU/linux system, which Android isn't. Dec 15 19:37:56 nor will it, since its so severely crippled on storage Dec 15 19:38:07 On the G1, yeah. Dec 15 19:38:12 why not all rectangles are drawn? http://nopaste.org/p/audZRlCG0 Dec 15 19:38:27 g1 is severely crippled on storage Dec 15 19:38:34 its only really crippled since there's so many mtdblocks Dec 15 19:38:38 because of the sd card being off limits for reasons i do not understand Dec 15 19:38:42 one annoying thing is the iPhone you can revert firmware legitimately and the G1 won't let you Dec 15 19:38:43 I remember the zaurus had this issue Dec 15 19:39:19 michaelnovakjr_: ..other than hacking, what legitimate use has there been to revert iphone? Dec 15 19:39:25 solution was to create one massive partition, worked fine, if you wanted to update, you flashed a completely new image, keeping anything important on SD card Dec 15 19:39:27 fadden: We don't actually use OnLoad, we have a seperate init function, because there's a couple things we want to do inbetween loading the lib and actually starting the code in it. Dec 15 19:39:34 the option is there Disconnect Dec 15 19:39:43 Apple made it available through iTunes Dec 15 19:39:55 i didn't say it wasn't. i said what legitimate use is there for it? Dec 15 19:40:15 for example, if an update messes your phone up Dec 15 19:40:27 Android doesn Dec 15 19:40:47 michaelnovakjr_: then you reapply it correctly. or apply the full ver instead of patch. Dec 15 19:40:48 doesn't prevent any of that. Whether T-Mobile decides to make that available or not is their decision. Dec 15 19:41:03 jbq: that's what i mean Dec 15 19:41:03 t Dec 15 19:41:09 * jbq routinely downgrades devices. Dec 15 19:41:13 its obviously a tmobile thing Dec 15 19:41:26 jbq: actually i thought the android recovery.img does a ver check. Dec 15 19:42:10 Disconnect: as far as I know it only does it if the update package explicitly contains a prerequisite version. Dec 15 19:42:37 in the txt file there's prereqs for the tmobile versions Dec 15 19:43:50 the challenge with downgrades is that you typically end up with application crashes all over the place, since old versions of the apps aren't typically written to handle new formats for their private storage. Dec 15 19:45:09 either way.. "we built a huge vault with multiple timelocks and guard stations and an electrified floor, but seriously people, its not our fault someone locked it!" doesn't fly.. Dec 15 19:54:48 How do I get adb to see my G1 in linux? lsusb shows the device attached. Dec 15 19:55:12 enable debugging on the phone in the settings menu Dec 15 19:55:27 oh, nm.. apparently adb needed to be started as root? Dec 15 19:55:40 hey, will Android prefer to route packets over the 802.11 as opposed to the mobile network? Dec 15 19:55:40 um, i don't run adb as root? Dec 15 19:55:44 (I really hope so) Dec 15 19:56:06 depends on the distribution and permissions on the usb devices Dec 15 19:56:09 savid: You might have some permissions problem with your distro Dec 15 19:56:17 anyone wanna dl the beta of my latest app Dec 15 19:56:44 http://www.mikedg.com/quicklaunch.apk Dec 15 19:57:13 It's a google desktopish search bar, you can type contacts, web addresses, amazon searches, google searches, or android apps into it Dec 15 19:57:23 anything web related opens in a lightweight webview below it Dec 15 19:57:37 hit menu and select open in browser to open the page in the main browser Dec 15 19:57:38 orospakr: when you have wifi turned on and connected, Android will prefer to use that for IP traffic, yes. Dec 15 19:57:50 hit menu, then preferences to make a quick launch shortcut with Search + space to this app Dec 15 19:57:52 blau-MikeDG, got screenshots? Dec 15 19:57:54 obviously that doesn't affect things like SMS Dec 15 19:58:27 is this another one of those great running in the background apps? Dec 15 19:58:58 ctate, oh good. Dec 15 19:59:10 can i enable sound on displaying toast? Dec 15 19:59:16 http://www.mikedg.com/quicklaunch1.png http://www.mikedg.com/quicklaunch2.png Dec 15 19:59:50 at the moment it creates a service, so id uninstall after playing unless you really like it Dec 15 19:59:58 ah Dec 15 20:00:02 why a service Dec 15 20:00:23 easiest way to cache all the apps on your g1 Dec 15 20:01:02 because it takes too long to read them on the fly, im going to use another method to do it when i release it publicly Dec 15 20:01:09 theres no need for it to be a service Dec 15 20:01:13 Hmm, should the dhcpcd process be consistently using 3% CPU ? Dec 15 20:01:13 yea, a service is a bad idea Dec 15 20:03:00 ive been using it without too much issue though Dec 15 20:03:39 Disconnect: Looks like I can create a seperate thread that has an Instrumentation reference and use that to send keypresses. Dec 15 20:03:44 blau-MikeDG, I applaud the idea :-) Dec 15 20:03:50 so I don't need to open /dev/keyboard or whichever it was Dec 15 20:03:51 thanks Dec 15 20:04:06 Please tell me now if there's a hidden drawback to this method that I haven't considered :\ Dec 15 20:13:58 Does anyone know if the class loader reads dalvik bytecode or java bytecode (if I'm defining classes at runtime)? Dec 15 20:14:23 You're going to have trouble defining classes at runtime. Dec 15 20:14:34 It's not currently supported. Dec 15 20:16:12 fadden: what are the challenges in defining classes at runtime? I'm willing to volunteer time to make it happen. Dec 15 20:17:05 can someone recommend a weather app other than the weather channel app? Dec 15 20:17:26 i use accuweather Dec 15 20:19:59 you know your hands are cold when you put them on the bottom of the laptop and you can physically see the temperature drop in a monitoring app x.x Dec 15 20:21:14 Foxdie: You're that blue kid from Xaviers school Dec 15 20:21:50 lol nah, if I was gonna be anyone it'd be beast, I have a thing for werewolves, and well, he's the closest :) Dec 15 20:24:40 arr, he left. i have been using Weatherbug lately and like it. Dec 15 20:25:31 sharvil: the VM has no understanding of Java bytecode, at all. So you'd need to create a DEX file with the classes and load it. Dec 15 20:26:10 oh man, the G1 is awesome. I am greatly enjoying this. Dec 15 20:26:27 orospakr what OS do you run on your home pc? Dec 15 20:26:38 orospakr, same here dude Dec 15 20:26:39 GNU/Linux. Dec 15 20:26:48 I think the killer bit is streamfurious Dec 15 20:26:59 I listen to shoutcast radio stations in the car Dec 15 20:27:00 fadden: so presumably I could pull down dex files off the network and the class loader would be completely happy to load them? Dec 15 20:27:08 you know how to setup vnc? Dec 15 20:27:09 Foxdie, last.fm. :) Dec 15 20:27:14 (working in the city center has its perks, like very good 3G coverage) Dec 15 20:27:19 someone's written a client. I started writing one, but someone beat me to it. Dec 15 20:27:23 http://code.google.com/p/android-vnc-viewer Dec 15 20:27:25 he hasn't released the source yet, though. Dec 15 20:27:27 which is lame. Dec 15 20:27:30 that thing is newly updated Dec 15 20:27:32 and is fun Dec 15 20:27:35 nah, I listen to either digitally imported, or .977 alternative rock :) Dec 15 20:27:47 d0nets, I use it, its good Dec 15 20:27:55 has anyone developed a text replacement/shortcut app yet? Dec 15 20:27:57 although the input method is a little wierd Dec 15 20:27:57 sharvil: in 1.0 the DEX files need to have been installed by the application. Dec 15 20:28:05 yea true dat foxdie Dec 15 20:28:09 i wanna use the trackball Dec 15 20:28:16 pressing scroll ball to toggle between screen panning and mouse control, confused me at first Dec 15 20:28:23 yea Dec 15 20:28:36 this is odd. it fell off gtalk. Dec 15 20:28:37 and i wish you didnt have to do just 1:1 or full screen Dec 15 20:28:44 but they will get it updated Dec 15 20:28:54 I set up xvnc on another machine with a screen res of 480x320 to match the G1, so no panning :) Dec 15 20:29:10 i mean they dont even have the ability to save the servers yet Dec 15 20:29:19 so you gotta go into connectbot or somethin and copy and paste Dec 15 20:29:45 i want to setup something where i can have my home pc ip sync with a domain Dec 15 20:29:56 i have been told dyndns but are there any others that are free? Dec 15 20:30:37 d0nets: dyndns is free Dec 15 20:30:44 oh it is? Dec 15 20:30:51 is it easy to setup? Dec 15 20:30:59 you use a subdomain from them but yea Dec 15 20:31:03 dyndns is free as long as you are happy with a hostname like d0nets.dyndns.com Dec 15 20:31:04 d0nets: pretty much. Dec 15 20:31:07 yeah Dec 15 20:31:14 the drawback is that you're stuck with one of their hostnames Dec 15 20:31:22 i see Dec 15 20:31:24 i used dyndns for a long time, it was reliable and easy Dec 15 20:31:26 I'd like a saved list Dec 15 20:31:33 yea, but if you are looking for free, then you can't be picky :) Dec 15 20:31:36 it's kind of a gimpy solution, but suitable for simple home use Dec 15 20:31:43 thats what makes connectbot so highly useful Dec 15 20:31:45 true dat Dec 15 20:31:48 ssh client with saved lists Dec 15 20:31:58 right Dec 15 20:32:02 i thought that was dumb Dec 15 20:32:08 but im sure they will add it Dec 15 20:32:14 fingers crossed Dec 15 20:32:19 I think it would be the icing on the cake Dec 15 20:32:32 i mean they just got it working with password about a week ago i think Dec 15 20:32:51 i setup my vnc without pass for a few days to test it out before they had added the password functionality to the client Dec 15 20:32:51 I tried it a couple of times with passwords Dec 15 20:32:57 then I thought sod it and went for PKA Dec 15 20:32:59 no lies, someone connected to my vnc Dec 15 20:33:17 well naturally, its a highly scanned for port Dec 15 20:33:24 yea Dec 15 20:33:34 also, bear in mind that VNC doesn't always transmit encrypted passwords, sometimes it does it in the clear Dec 15 20:33:37 i learned my lesson Dec 15 20:33:42 best to tell vnc to only listen on localhost, and use ssh tunneling Dec 15 20:33:54 hrmm Dec 15 20:33:59 how do i do that Dec 15 20:34:10 i know its prolly a command Dec 15 20:34:24 well, first off, your machine running vnc server, what os is it? Dec 15 20:34:25 port knocking ^_^ Dec 15 20:34:31 ubuntu 8.10 Dec 15 20:34:41 and you're using... Xvnc right? Dec 15 20:34:45 I would imagine port knocking does a phenomenal job of keeping out amateur portscanning stuff Dec 15 20:35:00 or rather vncserver ? Dec 15 20:35:17 the default one Dec 15 20:35:25 its in system/administration/remote desktop Dec 15 20:35:36 hmm, I don't know that one Dec 15 20:35:43 I haven't used ubuntu much Dec 15 20:35:48 I do all my stuff from the command line Dec 15 20:35:55 i do a good bit from there Dec 15 20:36:03 but this was just too easy Dec 15 20:36:06 and already installed Dec 15 20:36:10 ie "vncserver :0 -depth 24 -geometry 480x320 -pixelformat RGB888 -localhost" Dec 15 20:36:28 mind you, that one I pasted creates a virtual desktop Dec 15 20:36:39 it doesn't actually connect to a running X server Dec 15 20:37:11 so 480 X 320, does that scale it down to g1 size or somethin? Dec 15 20:37:22 that creates a virtual desktop with that resolution Dec 15 20:37:26 so it'd fit natively to the G1 screen Dec 15 20:37:36 mind you at that resolution, its not much use :) Dec 15 20:37:43 I just did some playing about with it Dec 15 20:38:42 lol browsing the web is almost better done with this vnc viewer Dec 15 20:39:00 if they could just get a better input method and zooming, etc... Dec 15 20:39:55 maybe mimic the browsers zooming and change the toggle between panning and mouse control to right shift or somethin Dec 15 20:39:56 i think im going to email them Dec 15 20:40:34 hmm, can I tell it keep the wifi up when it's plugged into AC? Dec 15 20:41:00 erm... wifi shouldn't turn off when you plug into the AC Dec 15 20:41:06 it does Dec 15 20:41:12 not unless you've set something ... iwhat? Dec 15 20:41:12 2 mins after the screen blanks. just like any other time. Dec 15 20:41:20 oh! Dec 15 20:41:26 I disabled the screen turning off :) Dec 15 20:41:38 guess that nullifies my point Dec 15 20:42:15 disconnect Dec 15 20:42:19 can we do something about that? Dec 15 20:42:33 sure. start by hunting down ttuttle and explaining proper powersaving to him :) Dec 15 20:42:36 there is an app for the iphone called insomnia that makes resources stay alive Dec 15 20:42:53 ttuttle is a google dev? Dec 15 20:43:22 intern. wrote the power savign code evidently. Dec 15 20:43:32 oh that is sublime! Dec 15 20:45:15 specifically, he wrote the original code that turns wifi off after 2 minutes when the screen is off. Dec 15 20:45:58 (IIRC) Dec 15 20:46:18 :E Dec 15 20:46:22 so we know who to lynch >:) Dec 15 20:46:22 ttuttle! My wifi! : ( Dec 15 20:46:31 lol Dec 15 20:46:33 damn Dec 15 20:46:37 you better run ttuttle Dec 15 20:46:40 I hope someone's written a service that holds a wake lock on wifi Dec 15 20:46:45 ttuttle, you're my hero ... <3 battery life Dec 15 20:46:47 I think I ran across that in the market Dec 15 20:47:11 vol: do you have any idea how much power wifi draws? ;) Dec 15 20:47:16 maxamillion: its significantly more expensive to rejoin a network than it is to set the polling rate down to a second or more and hang out. Dec 15 20:47:24 I like "aSettings" Dec 15 20:47:28 but the name isn't inspiring Dec 15 20:47:33 Foxdie: there's a better one now, toggle something Dec 15 20:47:58 I ended up using anycut to create a new shortcut to aSettings, called it "Wireless" because it was more to the point Dec 15 20:48:06 ctate: I don't care :colbert: Dec 15 20:48:12 jbq: What about Joe O.? I thought he wrote the power stuff Dec 15 20:48:14 There's ToggleWiFi, but that only handles wifi doesn't it? Dec 15 20:48:17 wasabi, hi Dec 15 20:48:20 vol: ha! Dec 15 20:48:24 yo dcordes Dec 15 20:48:31 speaking of which Dec 15 20:48:40 I need to investigate how to turn on the GPS programatically Dec 15 20:48:49 (and off, I suppose) Dec 15 20:49:01 hi Dec 15 20:49:07 your app needs the location privilege (declared in your manifest) Dec 15 20:49:18 ctate: I thought that was just for location updates Dec 15 20:49:20 yea foxdie but asettings only lets you toggle the wireless Dec 15 20:49:25 AUGH! Dec 15 20:49:27 er Dec 15 20:49:27 kRutOn: power-management is really a combination of many people, from drivers through the kernel all the way through the framework to the public API and applications. Dec 15 20:49:28 where do you think the location updates come from? ;) Dec 15 20:49:29 Foxdie: toggle settings Dec 15 20:49:31 * ttuttle did NOT THINK OF THE "TURNING OFF WIFI" BIT! Dec 15 20:49:32 its recent Dec 15 20:49:48 ctate: yes, but I mean being able to toggle whether gps is enabled or not, as in the settings Dec 15 20:49:49 maxamillion: Wait, you *like* the G1's battery life? Dec 15 20:49:55 not whether to receive gps updates Dec 15 20:49:59 d0nets, erm it lets you toggle wifi, bluetooth, gps, flightmode, screen brightness, silent mode Dec 15 20:50:02 oh that Dec 15 20:50:02 not just wifi :) Dec 15 20:50:03 so, if the gps is off in the settings, I want to turn it on Dec 15 20:50:05 right Dec 15 20:50:07 vol: ToggleGPS Dec 15 20:50:11 ttuttle: <3 Dec 15 20:50:17 but i was referring to not being able to select the network,e tc... Dec 15 20:50:21 Foxdie: I'm not a Google dev. I *was* an intern this summer. Dec 15 20:50:22 G1's battery life is a joke, I find myself keeping it on charge all day long Dec 15 20:50:30 there is a 1600 mah battery out Dec 15 20:50:31 Foxdie: I did *implement* the wifi-off-after-2-minutes code, but it wasn't my idea. Dec 15 20:50:33 im thinking bout buying it Dec 15 20:50:35 d0nets: Ooh, where? Dec 15 20:50:36 argh, no search results found Dec 15 20:50:38 d0nets: And what's the stock one? Dec 15 20:50:39 ttuttle: well, no ... i'd like it to be longer, but if you have written code to help conserve battery, you're my hero Dec 15 20:50:44 maxamillion: Oh, cool. Dec 15 20:50:47 1150 mah Dec 15 20:50:48 ttuttle, I was only teasing you dude :) did you enjoy your internship btw? Dec 15 20:50:50 maxamillion: Yeah, it's something that always needs work. Dec 15 20:50:56 Foxdie: Heh. I *loved* the internship. Dec 15 20:50:57 ttuttle: and probably always will Dec 15 20:51:21 Foxdie: honestly, it is totally comparable to other devices with similar hardware. 3G, wifi, and GPS are all big power drains, and there's almost nothing the software people can do about that. Dec 15 20:51:25 Foxdie: It was great fun, and frankly the crazed environment of "ZOMG we need to ship this phone soon!" made it even more fun :) Dec 15 20:51:38 ttuttle: sounds like a blast Dec 15 20:51:41 (look at how much the iPhone's battery life suffered when they went 3G, for example) Dec 15 20:51:41 G1 battery is like 1. leave the office fully charged 2. 50% battery used after 30 minutes of listening to online radio stations over 3G with the backlight at minimum and wifi turned off Dec 15 20:51:41 maxamillion: Yeah, it was. Dec 15 20:51:44 hmm. ttuttle is ToggleGPS a class, or a method? If it's a method, which class should I be looking at? Dec 15 20:51:47 maxamillion: I may well be doing that again. Dec 15 20:51:49 since searching came up with nothing Dec 15 20:51:50 vol: It's an app. Dec 15 20:51:53 vol: Like ToggleWifi. Dec 15 20:51:56 oh. Dec 15 20:52:02 ttuttle: so the code you wrote, was it kernel level or was it controller code written against the API? Dec 15 20:52:04 * BlindOracle has ACE compiling as static lib! :) Hopefully down the road I can get it built as shared lib Dec 15 20:52:10 I actually meant where can I do this myself programatically :P Dec 15 20:52:14 frankly I don't mind having a fatter hone with a double / triple life battery Dec 15 20:52:18 errr android api* Dec 15 20:52:19 my HTC Universal had a double life battery Dec 15 20:52:26 and my HTC artemis has one too Dec 15 20:52:40 vol: you need a permission to be able to change system settings, too :) Dec 15 20:52:53 ctate: I'm going to be requesting so many permissions that it's going to hurt Dec 15 20:52:56 :) Dec 15 20:53:12 early days for the G1 though Dec 15 20:53:22 its been out what, 2 months, and people expect miracles from it :) Dec 15 20:53:26 I know I do :) Dec 15 20:53:50 I'm assuming this is in android.provider somewhere... Dec 15 20:53:53 ttuttle, glad to hear you enjoy yourself dude, I get a buzz from high pressure environments at my place of work too Dec 15 20:54:22 especially when its like "shit, the TV show is about to go live and this needs fixing NOW" Dec 15 20:54:39 then I have to burn it up the motorway to the datacenter Dec 15 20:54:51 I'm wierd. Dec 15 20:55:04 I actually like pressure. Dec 15 20:56:04 d0nets, I thought about trying that 1600mAh battery Dec 15 20:56:30 but £40 is a lot for a battery Dec 15 20:56:30 it was a huge mess for a while Dec 15 20:56:37 it was backordered for a few weeks Dec 15 20:56:45 i read a 20+ page post about people bitching Dec 15 20:57:04 then i think they started getting them finally and i red a couple posts saying it helped a good bit Dec 15 20:57:33 people were pissed because they claimed they were in stock, quite a few people ordered and they never shipped out Dec 15 20:57:36 I might treat myself to one with my christmas bonus (if I get one) Dec 15 20:57:53 when the people would call in they would say "we are shipping it out today", and they said that happened many times over several weeks Dec 15 20:58:07 istr its not that much larger than the original battery. Dec 15 20:58:14 disconnect yea it is Dec 15 20:58:16 RyeBrye, are you around?= Dec 15 20:58:23 extra 500mAh is quite a lot Dec 15 20:58:41 something like 40% extra Dec 15 20:58:49 ctate: its not that much ;) Dec 15 20:58:54 Foxdie: Nice. Dec 15 20:59:18 0.391304348 Dec 15 20:59:26 Foxdie: Yeah, I've been doing things like tech for shows/concerts at school, and I'm finding that (strangely, given my personality) I seem to thrive on the "wow, we're making something happen" stress of an event. Dec 15 20:59:26 oh you geek Dec 15 20:59:27 39.1204348 % Dec 15 20:59:38 I tried to resist the urge of breaking out a calculator :P Dec 15 20:59:41 Hello Dec 15 20:59:45 FFForever: Hi. Dec 15 20:59:46 lol i have a button on my keyboard Dec 15 20:59:53 ttuttle: you should subscribe to make magazine : ) Dec 15 20:59:59 ttuttle, exactly dude, I love that feeling Dec 15 21:00:01 vol: Heh. Dec 15 21:00:18 i am getting the g1 on monday =) what are some must haves and does the g1 have an on screen keyboard or do i have to turn the screen everything i want to enter something? Dec 15 21:00:34 FFForever: No on-screen keyboard yet. Dec 15 21:00:37 ^^ Dec 15 21:00:40 soon? Dec 15 21:00:44 I've done work for the BBC, Channel 4, local government, I love it ^_^ Dec 15 21:00:46 FFForever: I think Q1 2009? Dec 15 21:00:46 you will DEFINITELY want to do a couple of deep discharge, deep charge cycles Dec 15 21:00:51 ffforever imeem is nice, connectbot, root it if its rc29 or before Dec 15 21:00:55 or the battery will be terrible Dec 15 21:00:57 android vnc viewer Dec 15 21:00:58 yes Dec 15 21:01:00 i think people like five Dec 15 21:01:02 root it if you can at all Dec 15 21:01:04 d0nets: Pfft, only if you use Windows. Dec 15 21:01:07 FFForever, whats your linux-fu like? Dec 15 21:01:09 Five is great, if you have a server for it. Dec 15 21:01:10 deep discharge?, deep charge cycles? Dec 15 21:01:13 linux-fu? Dec 15 21:01:14 tuttle eh? Dec 15 21:01:23 d0nets: *t*tuttle. Dec 15 21:01:27 d0nets: Yeah. Dec 15 21:01:29 as in, are you getting it mainly for a phone, or mainly for a linux hacky toy thing? Dec 15 21:01:35 what about windblows? Dec 15 21:01:39 hacky toy fun XD Dec 15 21:01:47 d0nets: If you've got Windows, VNC viewer is useful. Dec 15 21:01:51 okay, don't forget to root it ;) Dec 15 21:01:53 i use ubuntu Dec 15 21:01:53 d0nets: If you've got Linux, ConnectBot is better. Dec 15 21:01:54 its useful Dec 15 21:01:55 what are the g1 apps written in btw? Dec 15 21:02:00 FFForever: Java, mostly. Dec 15 21:02:01 assumning you get one thats RC7 / RC29 Dec 15 21:02:04 its nice to have both Dec 15 21:02:04 EW!!! Dec 15 21:02:12 can i run python or c++ apps? Dec 15 21:02:31 not sure, but you can build C apps for it Dec 15 21:02:33 ttuttle: did you have your hand in ConnectBot also? Dec 15 21:02:44 nothing graphical yet Dec 15 21:02:48 but someone will find a way Dec 15 21:02:48 maxamillion: No, other than donating some money to them. Dec 15 21:02:57 maxamillion: But it's my most commonly used app by far. Dec 15 21:02:58 the beauty of android is in its potential Dec 15 21:02:59 what are the best (free) apps? Dec 15 21:03:01 FFForever: they don't run in JVM though, google wrote a compiler for speed Dec 15 21:03:12 depends, what do you want from the device? Dec 15 21:03:19 maxamillion, jvm is rubbish i am glad to hear that =D Dec 15 21:03:20 ttuttle: yeah, i use it almost daily at this point ... quite nice :) Dec 15 21:03:28 I like StreamFurious, I can listen to online radio stations in the car on the way to/from work :) Dec 15 21:03:40 i want a sirius app Dec 15 21:03:46 and ConnectBot is invaluable in my line of work (network manager) Dec 15 21:03:52 how are the apps priced like the apple app store (most things $5-$10?) Dec 15 21:03:53 and a mythtv client Dec 15 21:03:56 d0nets: That's not possible unless Sirius decides to stream their stuff over the internet. Dec 15 21:03:58 they are all free atm Dec 15 21:03:59 apps are free right now Dec 15 21:04:01 FFForever: It's all free right now. Dec 15 21:04:06 ttuttle they do... Dec 15 21:04:09 sirius internet radio Dec 15 21:04:10 d0nets: Oh, cool. Dec 15 21:04:14 thats how the other phones do it Dec 15 21:04:16 ttuttle, why is that?, will they all stay free? Dec 15 21:04:17 soon they'll be able to charge for apps though, and its then the real big boy apps will come out Dec 15 21:04:19 wm6 had a player for a while Dec 15 21:04:22 but im not sure it works anymore Dec 15 21:04:28 FFForever: They just haven't finished the paid app support yet. Dec 15 21:04:32 FFForever: They'll cost money eventually. Dec 15 21:04:40 =( Dec 15 21:04:41 * maxamillion bought a non-market app this morning Dec 15 21:04:42 FFForever: Some are also rigged up so they won't work unless you pay the dev outside the market. Dec 15 21:04:42 some of them Dec 15 21:04:42 nah, I think some will stay free Dec 15 21:04:47 if i get free apps will they expire? Dec 15 21:04:51 nope Dec 15 21:04:55 FFForever: No, not unless they're rigged by the dev. Dec 15 21:05:02 they'll continue to function (typically) Dec 15 21:05:05 but you wont get updates Dec 15 21:05:12 what are knon rigged apps to stay away from? Dec 15 21:05:18 there are a bunch of wacky requirements for listing paid apps on the marketplace Dec 15 21:05:20 FFForever: none that i've heard of Dec 15 21:05:21 FFForever: Eh, just rea dthe comments. Dec 15 21:05:25 *read the Dec 15 21:05:26 one of the beauties of the market is you can check for updates and install them easily Dec 15 21:05:30 ttuttle: yah cuz election debate is helpful :) Dec 15 21:05:43 Disconnect, what are the requirements i am a C++ developer =) Dec 15 21:05:45 FFForever, any app submitted will have comments / ratings Dec 15 21:05:48 Foxdie: how do you do that? Dec 15 21:05:51 ffforever weather channel is the best weather app Dec 15 21:05:53 Disconnect: *facepalm* Yeah, I can't wait for a way to report market comments as spam or moderate them. Dec 15 21:05:59 Weather channel is great. Dec 15 21:06:09 Foxdie, can i browse the apps from my web browser or only on the phone? Dec 15 21:06:11 ttuttle: i do enjoy me some weather channel Dec 15 21:06:11 maxamillion, whenever you look at an app you've installed, it'll compare version numbers Dec 15 21:06:13 * Disconnect looks down.. nope, i don't look like google. maybe FFForever might want to search for the answers..? Dec 15 21:06:21 FFForever: unless you've got a C++ app that would take infeasably long to rewrite in Java, I would suggest learning Javaand using it to program your android programs Dec 15 21:06:25 Foxdie: oh ... huh, cool :) Dec 15 21:06:37 FFForever, from the phone mainly at the moment, there's a preview site someplace for some flagship apps Dec 15 21:06:59 I think someone mentioned here that they're gonna be making it possible to look at apps from a normal web browser Dec 15 21:07:03 i see the market place page but i only see like 6 apps =( Dec 15 21:07:10 there are more then 6 apps right? Dec 15 21:07:14 pssh yeah Dec 15 21:07:17 go into applications Dec 15 21:07:19 FFForever: there are only some main featured ones on the web site Dec 15 21:07:20 Foxdie: cyrket.com Dec 15 21:07:23 then search your heads content :) Dec 15 21:07:26 *hearts Dec 15 21:07:30 FFForever: there's quite a few Dec 15 21:07:36 if you just start typing in text you start searching Dec 15 21:07:42 is it possible to get online using pppd on the g1/trout? Dec 15 21:07:51 ooh Dec 15 21:07:53 how annoying is flipping the phone? Dec 15 21:07:57 damn good question dcordes Dec 15 21:08:01 FFForever: not very. Dec 15 21:08:10 I wanna know that because I want to set up a PPTP tunnel Dec 15 21:08:18 dcordes: no but PAN is available Dec 15 21:08:22 tunnel past T-mo's gayness Dec 15 21:08:25 ie. no msn Dec 15 21:08:29 Argh! Would someone at google PLEASE put out a fix for gmail soon so that if I press back when there's an empty response box, it doesn't save a draft of the empty response?! Dec 15 21:08:31 basts. Dec 15 21:08:35 FFForever: i don't find it annoying at all Dec 15 21:08:42 Foxdie: um. "no msn"? Dec 15 21:08:47 do i get free tmobile hot spot access on the g1, if so could i link my laptop to the g1 and use it? Dec 15 21:08:50 * Disconnect uses msn fine. Dec 15 21:08:52 I am sick of having so many "drafts" that I get to discard by hand... Dec 15 21:08:56 in the UK, t-mo block certain services Dec 15 21:08:58 like IRC Dec 15 21:08:59 and MSN Dec 15 21:09:08 Foxdie: really? ... that's strange Dec 15 21:09:12 even if you're on web'n'walk plus, which I am Dec 15 21:09:25 Foxdie, i didn't know that tmobile was in the uk i thought vodaphone got the g1? Dec 15 21:09:28 (basically I pay extra for 3GB a month, plus the legitimate allowance to tether) Dec 15 21:09:35 lol no dude Dec 15 21:09:39 t-mo is pretty strong here Dec 15 21:09:42 vodafone is going under Dec 15 21:09:49 (I know, I used to work for vodafone) Dec 15 21:09:59 =(, Foxdie how can i tether my laptop and g1? Dec 15 21:10:05 vodaphone and verizon.... aren't they somehow related? Dec 15 21:10:10 yep Dec 15 21:10:13 cousins Dec 15 21:10:17 grrrr Dec 15 21:10:21 i hate verizon Dec 15 21:10:30 voda and verizon got together to create verizon wireless. Dec 15 21:10:39 clowns Dec 15 21:10:45 FFForever, its possible Dec 15 21:10:47 Foxdie: Going under? Does that mean it will shrink to the size of, say, the second-largest mobile operator? :-) Dec 15 21:10:59 verizon is pretty big with a decent following here in the united states of morons Dec 15 21:11:04 Foxdie, the only tutorial on doing it seems like a cr*ppy hack job =( Dec 15 21:11:13 kRutOn, they've had massive profit losses in the UK in the last few quarters Dec 15 21:11:18 i would like to see t-mobile take more of a market share though Dec 15 21:11:21 namely because they price themselves out of the market for data Dec 15 21:11:28 FFForever: tethering: http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/second-g1-story-proper-bluetooth-tethering-how-short Dec 15 21:11:38 FFForever, indeed, no dedicated app yet, and the hacky method requires you to have rooted your G1 Dec 15 21:12:11 rooted g1 violates warranty right? Dec 15 21:12:11 Foxdie, I read things about tethering and such. I'm wondering what you can use to handle the data provided from the rmnet driver. Dec 15 21:12:15 Disconnect, a quick thanks to you and your site btw, got some very informative stuff :) Dec 15 21:12:17 Foxdie: Really? I thought they just announced recently their profits are up to GBP 10 bln Dec 15 21:12:58 hmm, cant say I've heard that, and I certainly don't believe they're telling the truth there kRutOn Dec 15 21:14:02 Foxdie, does rooting the device cause warranty to be void? Dec 15 21:14:25 ..you should ask tmobile that. Dec 15 21:14:28 its their warranty Dec 15 21:14:34 FFForever, I don't know the answer to that Dec 15 21:14:35 so yes =) Dec 15 21:14:53 you can assume yes, or you can assume no, or you can ask tmobile. Dec 15 21:15:15 ill ask them when i get it XD, is there any way to tether without rooting the device? Dec 15 21:15:29 frankly, I don't believe they should invalidate a wwarranty because you changed the operating system Dec 15 21:15:37 its not like the phone can't be reflashed in a service center Dec 15 21:15:46 i betcha google can turn up tethering info Dec 15 21:15:50 dcordes, I'm not sure, thats a little beyond my scope Dec 15 21:16:11 http://git.android.com/?p=kernel.git;a=blob;f=drivers/net/msm_rmnet.c;h=36911a4e5163031edf747a7fe1fd8c8db25ebae3;hb=6cd5a6fc5ea47dec067ff3d11521b924a9e4dd90 Dec 15 21:16:20 Disconnect, i do google..., its just there is only one other method socks procy and it does not seem like its ready yet Dec 15 21:16:39 ...and asking half a dozen times on here will make the answer different? Dec 15 21:16:47 maybe =) Dec 15 21:16:50 hey who said they used dyndns? Dec 15 21:16:53 u never know =) Dec 15 21:17:02 what does this mean "Create wildcard alias for "*.host.domain.tld"" Dec 15 21:17:09 I use dyndns, but not on my G1, I use it for my home network Dec 15 21:17:10 d0nets Dec 15 21:17:29 it means if you try and go to subdomain1.host.domain.tld its the same IP as host.domain.tld Dec 15 21:17:32 lol im not trying to use it for my g1, im trying to use it for my home ip Dec 15 21:17:34 i can give my g1 an address like sub.domain.tld? Dec 15 21:17:38 for example: Dec 15 21:18:04 pthread interface available to native code? Dec 15 21:18:20 d0nets, you don't need a whildcard =) Dec 15 21:18:23 if you set d0nets.kicks-ass.net to 195.10.10.1 and turn on the wildcard option, then anything.d0nets.kicks-ass.net resolves to the same IP Dec 15 21:18:36 FFForever, with T-Mobile you have a NAT to cover you... via WIFI you can do whatever you want. Dec 15 21:18:48 well do they allow me to have multiple sub domains for free? Dec 15 21:18:53 nats are EVIL!!!! Dec 15 21:19:00 like if i had sabnzbd.d0nets.kick-ass.net Dec 15 21:19:03 d0nets, yes Dec 15 21:19:07 d0nets, if u enable the wild card then yes Dec 15 21:19:21 i find its easier to spend $10/year though on a real domain and use everydns.net XD Dec 15 21:19:24 ok can i forward it to just an ip? or can i do ip/folder Dec 15 21:19:25 FFForever: are oyu a fan of having an ip? then you need nat. or ipv6. but trust me, you'd rather have nat. Dec 15 21:19:30 google apps for our domain FTW! Dec 15 21:19:35 hmm, I might be cruel to my G1, connect it to our wireless router and give it a real world IP address and see how long it lasts >:) Dec 15 21:19:50 lol Dec 15 21:19:52 Foxdie: probably pretty long. Dec 15 21:19:54 Foxdie, fairly long Dec 15 21:19:58 if not forever Dec 15 21:20:04 seeing as how I can't get root on my own device... Dec 15 21:20:04 well yes, it isn't windows ME Dec 15 21:20:08 and no services are running Dec 15 21:20:17  Host with IP address Dec 15 21:20:18  WebHop Redirect Dec 15 21:20:18  Offline Hostname Dec 15 21:20:19 vol, you got a RC30? unlucky dude :( Dec 15 21:20:22 which of those do i use? Dec 15 21:20:22 fadden: Disconnect: pthread interface available to native code? Dec 15 21:20:26 host with ip address? Dec 15 21:20:32 Foxdie: well, I got one when it came out, but I never bothered rooting it Dec 15 21:20:40 it's kind of a moot point now that dev phones are being outright sold Dec 15 21:20:40 if anyone cares... T-Mobile USA has 6 IP's it uses for NAT, so it's more then likely you get to share ips Dec 15 21:20:41 if i buy a g1 on monday i won't be able to root it right? Dec 15 21:20:41 BlindOracle: most of it; there's a couple of obscure bits that aren't pesent Dec 15 21:20:44 regretting it much? Dec 15 21:20:54 FFForever, where you buying ti from? Dec 15 21:20:58 tmobile Dec 15 21:21:02 fadden: but basic pthread interface is available? is the lib named libpthread.so? Dec 15 21:21:05 yeah in which country? Dec 15 21:21:09 it is going to by my upgrade, us Dec 15 21:21:10 US? england? Dec 15 21:21:10 BlindOracle: it's part of libc Dec 15 21:21:20 you might get lucky and get one thats RC29 Dec 15 21:21:41 if you see any prompts to install an update, make sure you always say no. Dec 15 21:21:46 what happened from rc29 and rc30? Dec 15 21:21:53 FFForever: Root bug was fixed. Dec 15 21:21:54 fadden: I guess I link against libc? Dec 15 21:21:56 BlindOracle: bionic/libc/bionic/pthread.c Dec 15 21:21:57 they closed off the ability to root it Dec 15 21:22:08 wb dcordes Dec 15 21:22:15 so they say Dec 15 21:22:18 the libc on android is a netbsd libc Dec 15 21:22:19 or something Dec 15 21:22:20 BlindOracle: if you don't link against libc you're going to be pretty limited in what you can do :-) Dec 15 21:22:39 Foxdie, but i will have to update it to get the on-screen keys =(, anyways how come google won't let ppl root? Dec 15 21:22:40 It's derived from BSD. Dec 15 21:22:45 fadden: I'm linking against arm port of libstdc++ Dec 15 21:22:47 FFForever, first action when they demo the phone to you is go to Settings and check the release candidate version Dec 15 21:22:53 Foxdie, thanks X died x_x Dec 15 21:23:05 fadden, has a netbsd ident in it Dec 15 21:23:05 you're not gonna get an on-screen keyboard for a while Dec 15 21:23:08 is why i mentioned it Dec 15 21:23:10 but I'm not using the -nostdlib so at this point I really can't say for sure what I am linking against Dec 15 21:23:18 3-4 months =D Dec 15 21:23:22 are the android sources ready for x86 yet ;) Dec 15 21:23:47 i cant compile android and run it right i have to use official google releases only right? Dec 15 21:23:48 BlindOracle: the easiest way to do native development is to put your stuff into the build tree from the git sources and let the Android build system do the work Dec 15 21:24:04 the only reason I can think of google closing up root was because the only way to access it is to start a telnet server, and in doing so there's no authentication and anyone can connect to it Dec 15 21:24:10 i remember how apple ran all of there apps as root =\ Dec 15 21:24:12 fadden: the problem is, the native c++ stuff provided via git blows chunks Dec 15 21:24:34 it could be said that C++ blows chunks Dec 15 21:24:37 and linus has said it Dec 15 21:24:45 that doesn't make it gospel Dec 15 21:24:47 BlindOracle: Yup. I'd recommend statically linking in anything you need from libstdc++ (e.g. STL) Dec 15 21:24:50 fadden: at least in the very basic tests I was trying before...simple stuff couldn't even compile Dec 15 21:25:07 This may be addressed in a future release (blah blah blah disclaimer disclaimer). Dec 15 21:25:13 BlindOracle: welcome to embedded linux. "embedded" is an important word. it means get rid of c++. Dec 15 21:25:13 fadden: ya, I'm trying to statically link now Dec 15 21:25:22 Disconnect, i haven't really found a C++ fanboy that I liked. Dec 15 21:25:22 Disconnect: *cough* Dec 15 21:25:38 Disconnect: developed on xscale using gnu tool chain on vxworks for a couple years using c++ Dec 15 21:25:43 well except ciaranm Dec 15 21:25:48 but he's a prick and that's why I like him Dec 15 21:25:53 Disconnect: it worked very well...embedded does not mean throwing c++ away Dec 15 21:26:05 BlindOracle: how much storage and ram did it have? Dec 15 21:26:13 (for system stuff) Dec 15 21:26:34 Disconnect: Storage was 16M, memory was 128M but only 64M was visible and we never used more than 32M Dec 15 21:26:39 anyone in here had issues with data corruption when transferring data over usb-storage to the g1? e.g. plug in G1, select mount, mount in linux, copy data from/to phone, umount and mount again and then compare md5sums. Dec 15 21:26:50 i have this, and adding ferrite cores to my usb cable reduced it Dec 15 21:26:53 but its not 100% Dec 15 21:26:55 WebTV was developed largely in C++. It had 1MB of flash and 2MB of RAM, including the frame buffer. Dec 15 21:27:01 and theres more people who have this problem, see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=454395 Dec 15 21:27:07 Disconnect: but that was for a radio system...much larger than anything you'd ever see on android Dec 15 21:27:10 can i sync the g1 with sun bird/thund bird via ubuntu? Dec 15 21:27:11 [15:24] the only reason I can think of google closing up root was because the only way to access it is to start a telnet server, and in doing so there's no authentication and anyone can connect to it Dec 15 21:27:19 whats more, i have it with both my G1 phones, on multiple computers, with multiple usb cables Dec 15 21:27:23 Actually, it was more because everything you typed was going into a root console. Dec 15 21:27:28 Which is a fairly serious bug. Dec 15 21:27:33 that I agree Dec 15 21:27:36 is there a popular or 'defacto' file browser people are using? or is there one available by default that i just kinda missed? Dec 15 21:27:38 yep, rm -rf /* Dec 15 21:27:40 would go to the console Dec 15 21:27:43 ...no, actually, if that was the only reason they would have set ro.secure to 0 so adb shell can be root. Dec 15 21:27:46 but they could have just stopped that behaviour and still left you the ability to start telnetd Dec 15 21:27:50 or included 'su' Dec 15 21:27:50 fadden: and I ported python to it to handle boot loading of apps and the user interface plus various oddities (automated updates) Dec 15 21:27:51 and do root stuff Dec 15 21:28:06 well yes, it's clear they don't want us to have root atm Dec 15 21:28:08 BlindOracle: i doubt it was running a half-assed homegrown libc tho.. Dec 15 21:28:18 Could someone tell me if there is a possibility to check from an application how many instances of a service are running ? Dec 15 21:28:25 but telnet isn't the reason they made rc30 Dec 15 21:28:27 but anyway i gotta bail, i'll bbl Dec 15 21:28:33 i thought emulator settings inside the dev tools were remembered? Dec 15 21:28:37 cya later Disconnect Dec 15 21:28:38 You can build and install your own telnetd. Dec 15 21:28:41 the cpu option always turns off for me Dec 15 21:29:02 how would i build only a specific app inside the android source? Dec 15 21:29:12 Disconnect: got that right...the supported platform sucked for c++...circa gnu tools 1998ish...templates barely worked Dec 15 21:29:13 michaelnovakjr_: make appname Dec 15 21:29:19 Check the Android.mk for the target name. Dec 15 21:29:29 Disconnect: I'm still figuring out what is and isn't available here. Dec 15 21:29:50 thanks fadden Dec 15 21:30:12 michaelnovakjr_: for a good time, "make appname showcommands" Dec 15 21:30:19 fadden: so pthreads is built into libc here? Dec 15 21:30:28 BlindOracle: yes Dec 15 21:30:31 ouch Dec 15 21:30:32 ok Dec 15 21:31:00 fadden is that run from the app directory or the root of the project? Dec 15 21:31:14 michaelnovakjr_: root. Try "mm" (by itself) in the app directory. Dec 15 21:31:16 why ouch? Dec 15 21:32:49 BSD has had pthreads in libc since ... 5+years Dec 15 21:32:53 it works, there is no drawbacks Dec 15 21:33:20 Having it in a separate lib lets you play games with different thread libraries. Dec 15 21:33:31 That's really not desirable for Android. Dec 15 21:33:49 Seems like it's not especially desirable on desktop Linux anymore. Dec 15 21:33:53 Damm: not sure that's true ... pretty sure openBSD didn't have pthreads about 3 or 4 years ago Dec 15 21:34:14 maxamillion, openbsd's always a turtle though... but it's SECURE! Dec 15 21:34:16 JesusFreke: can you help me with something? Dec 15 21:34:46 I was trying to install koush' auto rotate browser but i keep getting no space left, this is after flashing your rc30 v1.2 and rebooting several times. Dec 15 21:36:21 korndub: use "df" to check available space, "mount" to see if you've got it mounted read-write Dec 15 21:37:00 android uses webkit to render sites? Dec 15 21:37:25 korndub, i removed things in /system/media/audio/ Dec 15 21:37:26 can the G1 play back arbitrary flash video? (I mean apart from Youtube and with some other client than the web browser) Dec 15 21:37:32 korndub, the biggest ringtones, in particular Dec 15 21:38:09 eldenz: thats weird, because my ring tones are all on my sdcard...does android move tones to phone memory? Dec 15 21:39:02 oh god no Dec 15 21:39:06 kslater, no flash support Dec 15 21:39:07 nope Dec 15 21:39:13 I sure hope not Dec 15 21:39:35 korndub, it ships with ringtones.. which are not on the sdcard for sure ;) Dec 15 21:39:48 korndub, maybe the one you created/downloaded yourself, dunno Dec 15 21:39:50 eldenz: ok, so i can just remove some that it ships with? Dec 15 21:39:59 standby, im gonna check it out. Dec 15 21:40:32 korndub, maybe you shouldn't remove one that you have selected ;> but you can still just re-apply the jf rc30 and get all back as previously in /system Dec 15 21:40:43 is there an app to download youtube videos from the g1? Dec 15 21:40:57 korndub, i just did that because i wanted to get rid of the auto-rotate browser ;) Dec 15 21:41:53 does anyone know if dev phone can be restored from nbh, I don't know if JesusFreke had asked about that or g1 which apparently can't without keys Dec 15 21:41:55 eldenz: in all actuality i dont really need the autorotate browser because it has no onscreen keyboard, but im just trying because my compy tells me i cant Dec 15 21:50:00 hmm, if I set bootloader image to 0, do I get the old linux style bootup messages? Dec 15 21:50:53 double hmm, modifications to init.rc didn't survive a reboot Dec 15 21:54:22 Foxdie: not without a console, like fbcon Dec 15 21:55:52 eldenz: i removed three tones and still got that error, any other ideas? Dec 15 21:57:08 ken the 7.1.2 unstable is older then the newest daily right?, if so it looks like i found a regression in the latest and the old unstable =\ Dec 15 21:57:09 korndub, check how much space you have free: busybox df -h Dec 15 21:57:10 argg ... that's one week since i ordered my dev phone and still no shipping (i know it's normal - they announced 5 to 10 days, but's it's still hard to wait :D ) Dec 15 21:57:22 (in terms of the wine version) Dec 15 21:57:52 korndub, and you can also remove the old Browser.apk btw gives you some space for the new one as well Dec 15 21:58:14 i guess my wc3 bug was fixed and then broke in a later version =( Dec 15 21:58:36 FFForever: browser uses webkit Dec 15 21:59:05 ttuttle, can you shed any light on this? Dec 15 21:59:19 eldenz: i did adb shell rm /system/app/Browser.apk and rm /system/app/Browser.odex and the three ring tones and still nothing..... Dec 15 21:59:31 Foxdie: What is it? Dec 15 21:59:41 korndub: again, does "df" show sufficient space? Dec 15 21:59:45 Foxdie: Oh, I'm not really sure. Dec 15 21:59:49 Foxdie: I've never fiddled with init.rc. Dec 15 21:59:49 I modified init.rc Dec 15 22:00:06 oh ok Dec 15 22:01:06 foxdie, re: init.rc Dec 15 22:01:20 it's stored in a ramdisk image in boot.img Dec 15 22:01:35 fadden Dec 15 22:01:36 so any changes you make are made only in ram, and aren't persisted Dec 15 22:01:40 fadden: yes it does. Dec 15 22:01:45 ooh Dec 15 22:01:49 you have to make a new boot.img with the changes that you want Dec 15 22:02:08 fadden: the browser apk that i want to install is 1.1 mb Dec 15 22:02:15 can I mount boot.img on the android fs? Dec 15 22:03:00 JesusFreke: did you find anything about nbh flashing dev phone or fastboot g1 ? Dec 15 22:03:03 korndub, `adb shell df` and then check how much space left on /system Dec 15 22:04:14 tmzt_: the dev bootloader requires that nbh files are signed Dec 15 22:05:01 so no recovery even on dev phone? this could make things difficult if the recovery partiton is changed? Dec 15 22:05:12 tmzt_: but the patched version that was released (http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7) was fixed so that it accepts unsigned nbhs Dec 15 22:05:35 tmzt_: the dev bootloader has fastboot too, which you can use to flash unsigned stuff (even without the patched version) Dec 15 22:06:00 And fastboot is so much more convenient :) Dec 15 22:06:00 tmzt_: see here http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/8 Dec 15 22:06:11 jbq: very much so :) Dec 15 22:06:29 tmzt_: yeah, mucking with the recovery partition is a good way to accidentally brick your phone Dec 15 22:06:32 hmm Dec 15 22:06:43 ctate: not if you have the dev bootloader :p Dec 15 22:06:46 do I need this dev bootloader / fastboot thingy if I want to create a custom boot.img? Dec 15 22:06:52 eldenz: so i guess its not registering free space after i removed all that stuff, the free space was the same as before removal Dec 15 22:07:14 As long as you don't muck with stuff you can't reflash, you're theoretically "fine". Dec 15 22:07:15 foxdie: no. as long as you have root access, you can flash a new boot image Dec 15 22:07:19 JesusFreke: you have more avenues of escape in that case, yeah, but it's still possible if the right [i.e. wrong] things happen... Dec 15 22:07:42 ctate: not just by messing with the recovery partition Dec 15 22:07:50 ctate: if you muck with the bootloader, definitely Dec 15 22:08:01 true, but in the ordinary way of things the recovery partition lets you escape back to known state Dec 15 22:08:06 hence the name, obviously Dec 15 22:08:22 ok, are you saying the eng bootloader has been modified to support unsinged nbh? Dec 15 22:08:33 assuming that you have a fastboot bootloader, the parts you don Dec 15 22:08:47 you don't want to screw up are the bootloader, the radio image, and the CPLD image. Dec 15 22:08:48 people on the Android project have managed to accidentally brick phones on occasion, despite having full dev flash capability during development Dec 15 22:08:51 tmzt_: yes, the one at http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/7 is modified to accept unsigned nbhs Dec 15 22:09:16 jbq: yep. sounds right. Dec 15 22:09:16 the radio boots the phone, I can see how that would break things Dec 15 22:09:50 In earlier stages, the casualty rate was about 4-5% each time we had to flash any of those 3. Dec 15 22:09:50 cpld needs firmware? or is this an i2c download of regisiters or something? Dec 15 22:10:06 jbq: ouch :) Dec 15 22:16:26 wow. someone please tell me the battery life on the g1 gets considerably better after a few recharge cycles Dec 15 22:16:40 i'm getting about 6 hours of battery life here Dec 15 22:16:57 * Damm gets about 3.5days worth out of a charge Dec 15 22:17:01 but it all depends what you do Dec 15 22:17:26 if you use the G1 as a viberator to get your woman off... expect to need to plug it in to the wall. Dec 15 22:17:45 well i had my phone at 100 percent, then turned everything on (wifi, gps, the whole package) and i was at about 80 percent after half an hour Dec 15 22:17:57 sounds about right Dec 15 22:18:09 my feeling is the gps is the worst offender Dec 15 22:18:09 wifi takes juice wether you use it or not, same as bluetooth Dec 15 22:18:12 gps doesn't matter Dec 15 22:18:17 really? Dec 15 22:18:19 that's good Dec 15 22:18:20 gps doesn't take any juice unless it's active Dec 15 22:18:35 it's only active when a application (such as Maps) activates it Dec 15 22:18:41 hm, I had wifi on for most of the evening, so I guess that might explain it Dec 15 22:18:42 how is it activated/deactivated? Dec 15 22:18:43 (little or none) Dec 15 22:18:52 tmzt_, application does afaik Dec 15 22:19:00 few lines of code Dec 15 22:19:02 the dsp process shuts down when it's not active? Dec 15 22:19:04 Damm, so what's your usage profile? Dec 15 22:19:20 tmzt_, I'm not sure of the specifics Dec 15 22:19:27 kirberich, mostly text/email Dec 15 22:19:29 no voice Dec 15 22:19:44 wifi, gps, bluetooth? Dec 15 22:19:49 almost nothing running on my phone ever... if i browse the web, or hitup the market, I reboot after i'm done Dec 15 22:19:53 just gps on, with 3g. Dec 15 22:19:58 bluetooth only turns on when I need it Dec 15 22:20:04 and when i'm done I turn it off Dec 15 22:20:15 pretty much normal for me as BT sucks the juice of all my phones Dec 15 22:20:29 yeah that was the same with my last phone too Dec 15 22:20:38 after about 2 hours of laptop tethering the phone was empty Dec 15 22:20:40 Bluetooth is pretty power-lean on the G1, certainly compared with wifi, 3G, or GPS Dec 15 22:21:08 has anyone here used the "power manager" program? Dec 15 22:21:35 it seems to be rather useful, but also highly disruptive Dec 15 22:21:48 Damm: are you regularly in places with low (or worse, no) signal? Dec 15 22:22:07 [applies to wifi too: having it enabled in a place with no visible hotspots] Dec 15 22:22:53 android kernel has detailed power consumption monitoring, don't know it Dec 15 22:23:04 'it's turned on for the trout kernel in g1 Dec 15 22:27:47 * nyt burps Dec 15 22:28:36 updated version of my irc client (updated around 6am est) at code.google.com/p/androidirc fixes all the hangs and crashes Dec 15 22:28:39 morrildl: Hey did you ever get ANdroid built on Mac OS X? I've been busy with the FAQ, but have been meaning to get back to giving it another attempt. (FAQ -> http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ ) Dec 15 22:29:58 bgupta_: Android definitely builds on MacOS X. Dec 15 22:30:08 (has been for a very long time) Dec 15 22:30:52 Where "very long time" means "since day one". Dec 15 22:30:59 ctate, I have 2-3 bars max right now Dec 15 22:31:06 ctate, sometimes 1 bar Dec 15 22:31:11 but its' 3G Dec 15 22:32:08 * Damm has built Android on OS X. Dec 15 22:35:57 can i launch background processes? Dec 15 22:37:17 FFForever: sort of. Dec 15 22:37:19 You can run Services Dec 15 22:37:30 which you can have Activities bind to and detach from Dec 15 22:37:47 i assume services as in a type of cron job? Dec 15 22:37:48 use them wisely.... don't abuse them :) Dec 15 22:38:05 Services as in a daemon Dec 15 22:38:20 whose primary method of communication is IPC Dec 15 22:38:43 ur moms Dec 15 22:38:47 * Lieutenant runs away Dec 15 22:39:35 goodnight all] Dec 15 22:42:03 re all Dec 15 22:52:28 does the google talk IM client use data or SMS text? Dec 15 22:52:37 data only. Dec 15 22:53:06 all the IM clients are data-only (and they don't work if you don't have a data-enabled SIM). Dec 15 22:53:27 jbq: oh? ... i was told earlier that the AOL one used SMS text Dec 15 22:53:34 it bills sms. thats different. Dec 15 22:53:49 wait, what? Dec 15 22:53:52 * maxamillion is confused Dec 15 22:54:01 they charge you for an sms. Dec 15 22:54:01 no, it uses IMPS, which is a data protocol. It goes through T-Mobile's server, where it's billed as a message. Dec 15 22:54:54 I'd better let my wife know... Dec 15 22:55:12 tmob has always been kinda crappy that way Dec 15 22:55:21 She was going crazy with the AIM the other day. Can I just say how dumb that is? Dec 15 22:55:28 (That they bill it as SMS) Dec 15 22:55:47 install meebo Dec 15 22:55:48 that is pretty dumb :\ Dec 15 22:55:58 or whatever else.. Dec 15 22:55:59 meebo isnt billed as sms? Dec 15 22:56:02 well, they have servers to install and maintain... Dec 15 22:56:26 not for gtalk, though! :D Dec 15 22:56:32 jbq, Their servers don't process mmses when you use AIM. Dec 15 22:56:36 $5 on licensing deal for AIM as to why7 Dec 15 22:56:42 no, for GTalk Google did the work. Dec 15 22:57:09 brocktice: they have different servers for SMS, MMS and IMPS, and they bill each transaction at the same rate. Dec 15 22:57:12 as anyone using usb networking on JF kernel ? Dec 15 22:57:16 its billed that way because people pay it. Dec 15 22:58:01 jbq, Ah, because it's not really an AIM client just running on the device? Dec 15 22:58:05 same reason sms is billed at what, 15 cents per? Dec 15 22:58:09 (like, say, libpurple) Dec 15 22:58:19 Disconnect: why would meebo be billed differently than IM? Dec 15 22:58:25 brocktice: correct. the actual AIM client is running on the server, and there's a protocol to synchronize the server and the client. Dec 15 22:58:34 Makes more sense, tehn. Dec 15 22:58:35 then even Dec 15 22:59:02 unix_lappy: because tmob charges 1 sms per message on their app. meebo and the others doesn't. (in fact, i'd be really surprised if they even -could-) Dec 15 22:59:06 unix_lappy, I think the various non-official clients are in fact running on the device directly. Dec 15 22:59:17 rather than syncing per jbq's last statement Dec 15 22:59:32 Of course you can test. Dec 15 22:59:34 meebo runs on their servers. Dec 15 22:59:34 time to install meebo then. Dec 15 22:59:43 Just do #SMS#, send a message on meebo, and then #SMS# again. Dec 15 23:00:37 I found another good client yesterday... Hello AIM! Dec 15 23:00:48 Haven't tested extensively but it worked well enough. Dec 15 23:02:37 heh, hello aim seems to be getting better reviews. Dec 15 23:03:05 there are no other provider implementations? Dec 15 23:03:14 im+ is historically not bad Dec 15 23:04:00 and hello aim is gonna be a paid app Dec 15 23:04:23 well, thank you for all the extensive information ... i think i will go look into meebo for my IM needs Dec 15 23:04:24 it's only an OSCAR implementation? hello aim ? Dec 15 23:04:54 morrildl: Could you tell me if there is a broadcast for incoming emails ? Dec 15 23:05:03 market is being stupid about downloading. Thank Zeus for kill -9 Dec 15 23:05:11 kill will probably do the trick as well Dec 15 23:05:49 remember, the official line is that apps never need to be restarted. especially the stock apps. if other apps need restarting the answer is "uninstall them". Dec 15 23:06:00 yeah well Dec 15 23:06:08 let me just uninstall the market Dec 15 23:06:24 problem with a market download not starting? Dec 15 23:06:37 yes, second time in 24 hours Dec 15 23:06:44 Is there a better fix than killing it? Dec 15 23:06:44 Disconnect: heh. Dec 15 23:06:49 try to log into gtalk (don't ask). Dec 15 23:06:54 * brocktice tries Dec 15 23:06:56 market status always stays at 'starting download' until it is finished, in my experience Dec 15 23:07:39 and most of the time there's a 'download failed' followed by a 'installed' notification Dec 15 23:07:48 jbq, the little progress thing in the upper right is going indefinitely Dec 15 23:08:01 no contacts showing (not that I have many in gtalk) Dec 15 23:08:10 wtf? Dec 15 23:08:40 sounds like you've lost your gtalk connection (which is what market also uses, which is why I suggested that). Dec 15 23:08:51 bizarre-o Dec 15 23:09:02 not sure how to resolve it. you can always try to cycle through airplane mode, but that sounds painfully gross. Dec 15 23:09:02 and what is the proper way to re-establish it? Dec 15 23:09:03 market is xmpp? Dec 15 23:09:06 oh Dec 15 23:09:11 maybe flip wifi on and off Dec 15 23:09:13 tmzt_: nothing on the g1 is xmpp Dec 15 23:09:27 oh, right the rpc api Dec 15 23:09:29 tmzt_: nothing on the phone... what Disconnect said. Dec 15 23:09:46 streeter, you're right Dec 15 23:09:50 It did eventually install. Dec 15 23:10:59 I'd like to make the download notifications more informative. By the time we had added enough features to make the downloads reasonably robust, it was too late to change the UI. Dec 15 23:11:17 I didn't used to have that problem, not sure what changed. Dec 15 23:11:25 I also got the failed/installed pairs Dec 15 23:11:55 bgupta: belated, the usual problem people have when building Android on OSX is forgetting that the Android build requires a case-sensitive file system Dec 15 23:12:00 FYI. Dec 15 23:12:08 brocktice: that's quite scary, actually. Dec 15 23:12:22 jbq, tell me about it, something is totally wacked. Dec 15 23:12:30 ctate: the build used to auto-detect that Dec 15 23:12:40 e.g. out/casecheck.txt out/CaseCheck.txt Dec 15 23:12:42 it still does as far as I know. Dec 15 23:12:45 it still does Dec 15 23:12:47 okay, good. Dec 15 23:12:49 This is on the devphone, before I was on the G1. Maybe that's part of the difference? Dec 15 23:13:13 oh huh. what build is the dev phone running; i'm curious. Dec 15 23:13:22 brocktice: that's possible. Do you have 2 phones connected on the same account? Dec 15 23:13:28 jbq, they could be. Dec 15 23:13:29 Can I get an "M5" ? Dec 15 23:13:37 My wife reregistered the G1 with her account though. Dec 15 23:13:42 you can get a what what, if that will make you feel better. Dec 15 23:13:46 oh yeah, sharing an account between two devices can cause funky Market / download behavior sometimes. Dec 15 23:13:52 lovely Dec 15 23:13:53 hm ok Dec 15 23:13:59 Is there a possibility to manipulate the TabSpec indicator ? Dec 15 23:14:03 * ctate is STILL curious what build the dev phone is running.... Dec 15 23:14:08 Is there a way to clear that? Dec 15 23:14:11 ctate, I'll check in a minute Dec 15 23:14:22 ctate: http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/android-developer-phone-1 Dec 15 23:14:23 Working on something else atm. Dec 15 23:14:27 jf listed builds and such on his article Dec 15 23:14:45 ctate: 116222 Dec 15 23:14:47 Disconnect: aha, thanks Dec 15 23:15:00 hate to bother with this phonefusion thing if GrandCentral is ever going to be worked on again. Dec 15 23:15:14 also ha ha the bootloader Dec 15 23:15:23 hooray dancing droids Dec 15 23:15:31 skateboarding? Dec 15 23:15:35 yes, that too Dec 15 23:21:06 jbq, do you know some way to clear one phone off of the account? Dec 15 23:21:19 brocktice: factory reset... Dec 15 23:21:24 hmm Dec 15 23:21:33 That's been done. Dec 15 23:21:51 Perhaps it's another issue. Dec 15 23:22:00 ok, so my theory (about the gtalk connection getting confused) looks like it's wrong. Dec 15 23:22:07 yeah, exactly, sounds like something else. Dec 15 23:22:22 Thanks Dec 15 23:23:54 i want skateboarding droids on my G1 :/ Dec 15 23:24:32 zinx: www.gotontheinter.net/bootloader Dec 15 23:24:42 Disconnect: RC30 :/ Dec 15 23:25:05 zinx: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html Dec 15 23:25:23 Disconnect: I assume then that the eng bootloader is from HTC and not the one with source in fastboot.git, is that launched from the eng bootloader? Dec 15 23:25:32 Disconnect: you going to buy me one? Dec 15 23:26:06 zinx: sure, of course. since you bought a device you don't like i'll obviously keep buying you stuff until you have one you're happy with. Dec 15 23:26:07 zinx, i'd almost do it for xmas just so you'd be happy Dec 15 23:26:17 Damm: hey i'd love that Dec 15 23:26:49 Disconnect: yeah, since you bought a multi-billion dollar jet and i'd be happy with that, i'll spend my $-10k on one too Dec 15 23:26:57 Disconnect: ass :P Dec 15 23:27:22 its seriously not my fault you aren't happy. Dec 15 23:27:34 zinx, and since I know you somewhat... I wouldn't be butthurt over it, but I'd have to buy myself one first. Dec 15 23:27:43 and i can't convince myself to Dec 15 23:27:54 Disconnect: oh but i am happy, i'd just be more happy with root that i could afford Dec 15 23:28:20 g1 is significantly more expensive than adp1. Dec 15 23:28:26 there will be something in time to get devices either rooted or back to pre-RC30 Dec 15 23:28:30 * brocktice mentally envisions Damm with a wad of Benjamins since he's always talking about how he could buy four devphones with pocket change. Dec 15 23:28:35 Disconnect: it was $140 + the service i need anyway Dec 15 23:28:41 Disconnect, for me specially since i'm free. Dec 15 23:28:45 err mine was free Dec 15 23:28:48 Disconnect: that's rather significantly less expensive than $400+ Dec 15 23:29:10 Disconnect: unless i've somehow got my maths crossed again Dec 15 23:29:12 zinx: you are claiming you bill didn't change by as much as a dime when you switched to the g1 plans? Dec 15 23:29:23 Disconnect, Mine didn't Dec 15 23:29:26 i paid $550 us for my unlocked g1 Dec 15 23:29:27 Disconnect: i'm saying i need the service anyway Dec 15 23:29:30 I had the "Total internet" plan Dec 15 23:29:37 snadge, and you got punked. Dec 15 23:29:38 Disconnect: it's either $400+ + service or $140 + service Dec 15 23:29:47 Damm: thats how much they were worth at the time Dec 15 23:29:56 but we've already discussed that snadge Dec 15 23:30:02 some sold for over 60 etc Dec 15 23:30:05 600 even Dec 15 23:30:08 i know Dec 15 23:30:10 adp1 doesn't require the handwaving g1 plan (its not like a bb where the "special" plan actually has something different) Dec 15 23:30:13 you can still find em for 650+ Dec 15 23:30:18 doesn't mean you can't find cheaper Dec 15 23:30:21 Disconnect: *I* need the plan. not the ADP1. Dec 15 23:30:37 Disconnect: specificly need cell service + unlimited internet Dec 15 23:30:39 the G1 was my first "smartphone" so i needed the plan. Dec 15 23:30:47 though, i'm thinking it's a bit of an extravagance at this point. Dec 15 23:31:05 kinda pointless to me Dec 15 23:31:12 unix_lappy, T-mobile insisted that my Razr2 couldn't use the internet connection directly. I told them please just add it, it's my loss if you're right and I'm wrong. Dec 15 23:31:17 They were, of course, wrong. Dec 15 23:31:23 you need A plan. not that plan. the g1 plan is, as i recall, more expensive than their generic plans. Dec 15 23:31:38 Disconnect: specificly need cell service + unlimited internet Dec 15 23:31:39 Disconnect, The G1 plan is not more expensive than the total internet plan. Dec 15 23:31:53 Disconnect: i never specified that i needed a specific plan. Dec 15 23:31:53 Except that it bundles 400 smses for $5, which I already had anyway. Dec 15 23:32:00 Disconnect: just that it has to include those things. Dec 15 23:32:25 your all using web 2 go or web and go now... so who cares Dec 15 23:32:30 smile, shutup and be happy Dec 15 23:33:18 brocktice: they did give you full internet access for the razr2 (that's the v8?) Dec 15 23:33:31 tmzt_, yeah, and it was the v8. Dec 15 23:33:43 Of course, it had a china mobile firmware on it that it didn't come with :) Dec 15 23:33:57 nice, the first linux phone from tmobile, but g1/adp1 seems more useful with the keyboard Dec 15 23:34:12 my woman has been using a Motorola A1200 for quite some time Dec 15 23:34:21 and there has been many many linux phones on t-mobile Dec 15 23:34:24 far far away Dec 15 23:34:37 sold by t-mobile? Dec 15 23:34:46 uk Dec 15 23:34:48 but not us Dec 15 23:34:54 hey im having troubles, i just setup dyndns Dec 15 23:34:55 oh, right Dec 15 23:35:10 d0netsFN, on your Dream? Dec 15 23:35:18 everything works, vnc, ftp, my sabnzbd Dec 15 23:35:18 no Dec 15 23:35:20 for my home pc Dec 15 23:35:23 oh Dec 15 23:35:26 but when i try to connect with connectbot from my g1 Dec 15 23:35:28 i cant Dec 15 23:35:40 but my friend said he tried and it looked as if it worked for him Dec 15 23:35:43 (asked for pass) Dec 15 23:35:45 maybe something is blocking port 22 Dec 15 23:35:46 are you on wifi still? Dec 15 23:35:52 no im on edge Dec 15 23:35:56 i'm able to connect Dec 15 23:35:57 hm Dec 15 23:36:06 via wifi though, haven't tried through 3G/2G Dec 15 23:36:08 can devtools be installed on the phone? Dec 15 23:36:13 some routers (like the newer linksys) have a checkbox that breaks incomming connections Dec 15 23:36:20 tmzt Dec 15 23:36:25 it works if i use my public ip though Dec 15 23:36:38 i have the port forwarded in my router Dec 15 23:36:41 oh, it's not updating the dyndns? Dec 15 23:36:45 and i have it allowed in my software firewall Dec 15 23:36:51 no it did update the dyndns Dec 15 23:36:54 d0netsFN: DNS might not have propagated yet Dec 15 23:36:56 it worked with my vnca nd ftp and http Dec 15 23:37:05 but it has, i verified with other apps Dec 15 23:37:12 other apps on the G1? Dec 15 23:37:13 yeah but wherever your phone is pulling DNS from may not have Dec 15 23:37:13 I had to disable all of my updaters because they kept disabling my account Dec 15 23:37:15 hmm. Dec 15 23:37:16 d0netsFN: the DNS network is not centralized. T-Mobile's DNS may not have updated. Dec 15 23:37:29 or at least, it's not completely centralized. Dec 15 23:37:43 d0netsFN: can you connect with the telnet mode in connectbot to port 22? Dec 15 23:38:05 i'd expect that it's a DNS-propagation issue, frankly, and not worry unless it's still not working tomorrow. Dec 15 23:38:18 i agree with ctate. Dec 15 23:38:55 tmzt explain Dec 15 23:38:59 what do you mean connect with telnet mode Dec 15 23:39:09 same as you would for telnet Dec 15 23:39:21 ask in #connectbot probably, I haven't used it Dec 15 23:39:21 use the g1 telnet client to ssh? Dec 15 23:39:33 telnet to the port 22 Dec 15 23:39:47 not sure what that'd gain him :/ Dec 15 23:39:56 you can resolv in the web browser on the g1? Dec 15 23:40:02 is the search button treated as a normal button or is the an api to hook onto it? Dec 15 23:40:25 you mean can i pull up my http pages on the g1? Dec 15 23:40:28 the one thats hosted on this pc? Dec 15 23:40:29 yes Dec 15 23:40:33 for instance i have sabnzbd Dec 15 23:40:41 if i go to mydomain.com:8080/sabnzbd Dec 15 23:40:42 it works Dec 15 23:41:04 that could only be dns if it's using a proxy and resolving on the proxy server Dec 15 23:41:16 can you ping or nslookup in the shell (if you have access) Dec 15 23:42:28 for those with root/dev phones, i just put up nandroid 2.0, a full NAND backup/restore script. if interested, read up here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3046976 Dec 15 23:42:31 ;) Dec 15 23:43:08 thanks infernix Dec 15 23:43:40 i've been testing for the past days and i have had zero issues with backing up my G1 and restoring to another Dec 15 23:44:01 comments or bugreports are welcome though :) Dec 15 23:44:19 infernix, does it work on RC30? :D Dec 15 23:44:33 (might as well be the first to ask, even though I know the answer :p) Dec 15 23:44:56 how do i take ndroid.R.drawable.arrow_down_float (an int) and get a Drawable object? Dec 15 23:45:03 s/ndroid/android/ Dec 15 23:45:09 JesusFreke: hi again, do you have usb networking working? Dec 15 23:45:21 tmzt i just sshd into my remote box Dec 15 23:45:27 then sshd to my home box's domain Dec 15 23:45:28 and it worked Dec 15 23:45:44 ajoid: using Resources, but why do you need this? Dec 15 23:46:02 (i want to make sure youre not missing some abstraction or more convenient feature) Dec 15 23:46:20 jasta: the constructor for ItemizedOverlay Dec 15 23:46:39 tmzt_: no? what makes you think I would? :) Dec 15 23:46:48 hmm thats bizarre they didnt include a way to pass the int resource id Dec 15 23:46:57 just place it in your layout and let the framework unravel it Dec 15 23:47:07 JesusFreke: you have a modified kernel, I thought people where looking for that Dec 15 23:47:42 tmzt_: "people" maybe. not me :) Dec 15 23:47:53 ajoid: well anyway, Context#getResources lets you access your own local resources, to access systemw-die ones use Resource.getSystem. generally, you would use the former. Dec 15 23:48:00 system-wide* Dec 15 23:48:28 then of course just call Resources#getDrawable. Dec 15 23:49:02 for anyone who cares then: http://git.linuxtogo.org/?p=groups/mobile-linux/kernel.git;a=commit;h=df6bc3917c80b8e4e6d718d58e4ca227259a8408 Dec 15 23:49:14 http://git.linuxtogo.org/?p=groups/mobile-linux/kernel.git;a=commit;h=6dd4ca4878b7c2d8cacf09632fdc446851d4232b Dec 15 23:49:15 jasta: k. thx! Dec 16 00:00:21 is there any free g1 unlockers? Dec 16 00:06:32 FFForever: yah dial 611 Dec 16 00:07:58 Disconnect, i don't want to wait 90 days? Dec 16 00:08:05 ..so don't. Dec 16 00:09:12 is the biggest card for the g1 8gb, 16gb or 32gb?, i find sources saying the max is all 3 of them =\ Dec 16 00:09:41 i have a 16gig Dec 16 00:10:04 FFForever: the biggest is 16 gig, which is the largest MICROsd card available Dec 16 00:10:19 16GB currently, it should support 32GB cards when they are released. Dec 16 00:10:23 8gb was the largest size that had been tested before shipping. 16gb is the largest that has been tested since then. 32gb is the largest possible size for SDHC, and is expected to work but hasn't been tested. Dec 16 00:10:58 cool =) Dec 16 00:11:16 However an interesting note. Although the SDHC standard currently doesn't support it, SDHC cards should be able to address over 1TB. :) Dec 16 00:11:41 SO it's possible with a firmware update, that the G1 might be able to have over a TB of local storage. Dec 16 00:12:02 what does SD2.0 support bgupta_ ? Dec 16 00:12:02 16gb? you need to store that much on 1 phone? lol Dec 16 00:12:05 bgupta_: yup. the protocol definitely scales far beyond 32GB "as is". it's just that devices with the SDHC logo are only required to support up to 32GB. Dec 16 00:12:25 can i play avi's on the g1 with the free video player? Dec 16 00:12:29 * bgupta_ realized that's an outrageous claim, so he is looking for info to back it up. Dec 16 00:12:33 bgupta_: SDHC is ONLY spec'd to 32 GB.. not beyond. Dec 16 00:13:09 still 32gb on a micro sd card is scary.... my laptop is 40gb.... Dec 16 00:13:21 sounds like you need a new laptop Dec 16 00:13:23 haha Dec 16 00:13:35 nah laptop is 6months old =) Dec 16 00:13:38 "Here's an nickel..." Dec 16 00:13:43 argh, an -> a Dec 16 00:13:45 boy you got ripped off Dec 16 00:13:46 hd died and i had the 40 spare XD Dec 16 00:13:46 SanMeHat: Agreed, all I am saying is that with the pins and wiring of the socket you could address over 1TB. Dec 16 00:13:48 "when I was a kid..." Dec 16 00:13:53 who sells 40 gig laptops anymore? Dec 16 00:13:57 came with 100gb+ in it XD Dec 16 00:13:58 prolly zinx will buy you one Dec 16 00:14:00 ah Dec 16 00:14:04 hd died after 6 months? i second the "ripped off" comment :) Dec 16 00:14:15 SanMehat: Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDHC_cards_with_greater_than_32_GB_capacity Dec 16 00:14:33 bgupta_: yeah.. i have a copy of the spec right here Dec 16 00:14:42 these ads on tv are so annoying lol Dec 16 00:14:51 bgupta_ really, wikipedia is your backing? Dec 16 00:14:51 you watch tv? :p Dec 16 00:14:56 especially the car insurance for women one Dec 16 00:15:02 ..you watch ads? Dec 16 00:15:04 bgupta_ :) that's a good one Dec 16 00:15:06 rarely Dec 16 00:15:12 a class 4 should be fine for a cell phone right? Dec 16 00:15:18 waiting for the film Dec 16 00:15:28 the core on e4 Dec 16 00:15:46 e4 + 1 tbh Dec 16 00:16:03 FFForever: class 4 is fine Dec 16 00:16:07 michaelnovakjr: Need me to find another source? ;) Dec 16 00:16:16 :) Dec 16 00:16:32 i think the spec SanMehat has might be a legit place to look :) Dec 16 00:16:33 cool i just bought a 8gb sdhc for 18 with free shipping XD Dec 16 00:18:46 so when i download apps they get stored on the sdhc card so i could back them up if i wanted right? Dec 16 00:18:57 no Dec 16 00:19:10 hahahahhaa Dec 16 00:19:16 :) Dec 16 00:19:21 on that note.... i gotta go Dec 16 00:19:22 :) Dec 16 00:19:22 you forget. the first thing the security policy is defending against is -you-. Dec 16 00:19:28 haha Dec 16 00:19:32 FFForever: 'downloads' from the web browers are on /sdcard/downloads Dec 16 00:19:39 s/browsers/browser/ Dec 16 00:19:46 FFForever: apps from the web browser are saved there but not from the market Dec 16 00:20:00 although its not difficult to pull apps off the phone Dec 16 00:20:13 wow. this film is beyond unrealistic Dec 16 00:20:13 where are apps from the market saved? Dec 16 00:20:14 ..with root Dec 16 00:20:34 michaelnovakjr, huh, even after they are installed, they are run from the /sdcard ? Dec 16 00:20:39 FFForever: in a tmp directory until they are installed, after that they are installed to the /data/app directory Dec 16 00:20:44 eldenz: no Dec 16 00:20:46 riding magna waves in the earth's core in a rocket thing Dec 16 00:21:17 michaelnovakjr, =\, the phone comes with 512mb internal and a 1gb sd card in the sd slot right? Dec 16 00:21:19 Hi all. I just got my gf a sweet (looking) case for her G1, but it's incredibly magnetic. Will a magnet b0rk the screen? Dec 16 00:21:28 FFForever: stock, yes Dec 16 00:21:51 how much of the 512mb does android leave for apps? Dec 16 00:21:53 i got 2gb in the slot :s Dec 16 00:22:21 FFForever: i don't think there's enough good apps in the market to worry about that yet :) Dec 16 00:22:25 mikey|, nice, tmobiles website says u get a 1gb XD Dec 16 00:22:30 heh Dec 16 00:22:34 michaelnovakjr, yet.............. Dec 16 00:22:35 FFForever: he added one Dec 16 00:22:56 i also got an 8gb for free from t mob Dec 16 00:23:03 =( Dec 16 00:23:11 new customer? Dec 16 00:23:13 ;D Dec 16 00:23:17 yeah Dec 16 00:23:19 hehe Dec 16 00:23:24 ahhh i am just upgrading.... Dec 16 00:23:47 FFForever: if your phone doesn't come with RC30, not sure how likely that is, you could always root your phone Dec 16 00:23:57 im sure it says 2gb on the phone box Dec 16 00:23:58 michaelnovakjr: doesn't take good apps. web browsing and a couple of apps.... fill it right up. market cache. Dec 16 00:24:19 Disconnect: cache is a pain, but thats managable Dec 16 00:24:25 i still lol at the what ever u type gets put into a root terminal how the **** did that make it in on a phone? Dec 16 00:24:31 little different than running out of legitimate space Dec 16 00:24:44 FFForever: slight oversight :) Dec 16 00:24:51 slight?!?!?!?! Dec 16 00:25:02 more like major.... Dec 16 00:25:08 Frankly I am surprised more vendors aren't talking publically about an SD 3.0 spec. Dec 16 00:25:17 hey, some would consider that a gift FFForever :) Dec 16 00:25:20 on my e90 i had about 30 megs of apps and data on the sd, plus mostly filled the internal storage Dec 16 00:25:26 i cant wait for usb 3.0 =) Dec 16 00:25:35 (which was larger than the g1) Dec 16 00:25:53 michaelnovakjr, yeah but i am not a hacker so i consider it a will they replace it if i type rm -rf / lol Dec 16 00:26:00 oh nice, police, camera, action is on Dec 16 00:26:09 and that was bare-minimum frequently-used apps Dec 16 00:26:14 FFForever: :) i think they would have to Dec 16 00:26:24 mikey|: if i wanted to watch tv where you are, i would... Dec 16 00:26:37 its still one hell of a bug i bet the dude who let the bug in got fired lol Dec 16 00:26:45 ...i really doubt it Dec 16 00:26:50 yea probably not Dec 16 00:26:53 and which one is "the dude who let it in"? Dec 16 00:26:54 Current conventional wisdom on TDD? JUnit? p-unit? IDE integration? Dec 16 00:27:12 why wouldn't u fire someone who just f-uped a million phones =( Dec 16 00:27:18 * twbray waves "hello" to everyone in a n00by kind of way Dec 16 00:27:39 FFForever: that implies you have a who Dec 16 00:27:47 FFForever: and that the phones were f'd up. Dec 16 00:27:53 Damn $2000/year to get membership in SD Association... Dec 16 00:27:59 yep, which most probably weren't Dec 16 00:28:02 wait till you get out in the workforce for a while... Dec 16 00:28:34 them minimal sdhci specs are available somewhere, without the security information Dec 16 00:28:35 they had to have some phones get screwed.... hell i would have typed rm -rf / just to watch it kill it self lol Dec 16 00:28:46 ..and then you reflash it and its fixed. Dec 16 00:28:55 FFForever: sure some did, and yes its easy to fix Dec 16 00:29:00 go to a store one and do it Dec 16 00:29:15 michaelnovakjr, u cant fix it at home =( Dec 16 00:29:20 yes, you can. Dec 16 00:29:23 :) Dec 16 00:29:25 anyway pizza here, bbl. Dec 16 00:29:44 how can u fix it at home with all the major commands destroyed lol Dec 16 00:29:55 because you have recovery mode Dec 16 00:30:23 i wonder how long till they get unsigned kernels running =) Dec 16 00:30:32 ? Dec 16 00:30:35 uh, about a month ago :p Dec 16 00:30:43 so in about -1 months. Dec 16 00:30:51 you were given root, it doesn't get much easier :) Dec 16 00:31:09 ok on newer un rootable phones.... Dec 16 00:31:13 Google helped out and did the hard part Dec 16 00:31:31 michaelnovakjr, that reminds me of the iphone running everything as root XD Dec 16 00:31:34 then google regretted it Dec 16 00:31:54 hard part where? Dec 16 00:32:03 :) cmonex undoubtedly ... i'm sure there were a few chuckles about that Dec 16 00:32:12 * mikey| missed the convo Dec 16 00:32:16 eh? heh Dec 16 00:32:36 its one of the bugs you have to laugh at even if just a little Dec 16 00:32:49 :) Dec 16 00:33:43 when will android leave rc? Dec 16 00:33:52 ..?? Dec 16 00:34:15 i think thats just the naming convention Dec 16 00:34:51 not a real "release candidate" Dec 16 00:35:22 generally when it arrives on devibcves its released.. Dec 16 00:35:23 * mikey| is tired Dec 16 00:35:23 night Dec 16 00:36:03 devibcves? Dec 16 00:37:35 is there a mobile version of quicken yet? (that syncs with the actual quicken Dec 16 00:37:36 ) Dec 16 00:45:19 michaelnocakjr: Found a spec doc: http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdcard/pls/ (Need to agreed to DL document.) Gonna walk you through this, and explain why SDHC *can* have a physical limit of 2TB. (2048GB). Dec 16 00:46:04 bgupta_: it's more than the byte vs. block issue? Dec 16 00:47:02 michaelnovackjr: Go to page 86 of the doc and check table 5-16. We are looking for "device size" field of table. C_SIZE is 22 bits. Dec 16 00:47:28 Itmzt_: sector addressing vs. byte addressing Dec 16 00:48:35 michaelnovackjr: Now go find "READ_BL_LEN on page 87.. (Set to 512 byte)... Dec 16 00:49:00 ALso on page 87 read the definition of C_SIZE... Dec 16 00:49:47 "This field is expanded to 22 bits and can indicate up to 2 TBytes (It is the same as the maximum memory space specified by a 32-bit block address). Dec 16 00:50:50 This parameter is used to calculate the user data area capaicity in the SD memory card (not including the protected area).. The user data area capacity is calculated from C_SIZE as follows: Dec 16 00:51:20 memory capacity - (C_SIZE+1) * 512K byte Dec 16 00:52:08 sadly SDHC is purposefully limited by the SD association to something stupidly small like 32GB Dec 16 00:52:28 so they can make a new standard when that happens... oh wait, it already happened months after SDHC was made :P Dec 16 00:52:59 michaelnovackjt: Where the 32GB limitiation comes in is the following entry: As the maximum capacity of the Physical Layer Specificatino Version 2.00 is 32 GB, the upper 6 bits of this fiend shall be set to 0. So it is an artificail limitation that could relatively easily be tweaked to make cards and drivers that support up to 2TB SDHC cards. Dec 16 00:53:03 it's not like there's not enough room to make the controller fw flashable Dec 16 00:54:35 what size does fat32 support? Dec 16 00:54:53 istr its 2T Dec 16 00:54:55 wiki knows Dec 16 00:55:32 so it's broken cameras then, what is the reason? Dec 16 00:55:36 much larger than 32GB, in any case Dec 16 00:55:56 what's broken cameras? Dec 16 00:55:57 Mmm. yes, but if it's like many other HTC devices, the CPU shouldcontrol the SD interface. (I haven't seen a block diagram, so I can't confirm. BUt I am hopeful that when we pass the 32GB barrier we will be able to use them in the G1 with some driver hackery.) Dec 16 00:56:37 probably won't even require driver hackery Dec 16 00:56:42 well, if micro cards are already 16gb, it has to be possible to make a much larger SD already Dec 16 00:56:52 unless they *change* the specification again when they do a standard that supports over 32GB Dec 16 00:57:17 maybe use SDIO memory? Dec 16 00:57:24 they will probably be as stupid as they've always been, and limit the new spec to like 256GB Dec 16 00:57:33 Well it's kinda like the situation where the physical 1.x SD spec supported 4GB cards, but the main standard didn't Dec 16 00:57:52 actually use the CIS for something. I look at something like EyeFI and wonder why we can't access the wifi chip part of it, for example Dec 16 00:58:11 bgupta_: yeah, and SDHC 4GB isn't the same as SD 4GB.. they are incompatible Dec 16 00:58:31 SO you had a few manufacturors going out on a limb and making 4GB SD cards, and then having to recall them when the SDHC standard (SD 2.0) came out. (They changed the addressing) Dec 16 00:58:38 or, I would like to use a 2gb partition on my new 8gb card from wm5 but it doesn't support SDHC Dec 16 00:59:24 tmzt_: If and when you port android to that device it should support SDHC. Dec 16 00:59:40 it already does in linux, but I want to boot the kernel from it Dec 16 00:59:41 (Assuming it has the minimum hardware specs to run android... Dec 16 00:59:54 the sd card association seems to be extremely short-sighted to me :/ Dec 16 00:59:54 sure, it's a pxa27x with pxa-mci Dec 16 01:01:03 hi, anyone heard anything about timescales till the next update? Dec 16 01:01:35 I'm kinda psyched that there is likely to be a renaissance of old mobile hardware once Android porting efforts get underway. Dec 16 01:01:38 zinx: another way to see it is that they want to be sure that they have test cards available at the largest official capacity for device manufacturers to be able to test with. Dec 16 01:02:23 bgupta_: well, there already is but it has more to do with later 2.6 kernels than android directly Dec 16 01:02:33 bgupta_: but there is hope for BA and Apache at least Dec 16 01:02:47 BA? Dec 16 01:02:55 HTC Blue Angel Dec 16 01:03:02 ah... right... Dec 16 01:03:20 128mb ram on one version I think Dec 16 01:05:00 jbq: because that's the PERFECT way to design a storage standard. i mean, it's not like you could even want more than what's out right now. Dec 16 01:05:02 I am thinking that a stripped down Android is listed as requiring 32MB, that means theoretically we should be able to turn an old Treo 650 into something useful.. (If you can still find one).. also think of all The non cell phone PDAs out there that are ripe for porting. Dec 16 01:05:08 jbq: s/even/ever/ Dec 16 01:05:51 zinx: there's a big gap between what can be commercially available and what can be available as test samples/emulators. Dec 16 01:05:57 zinx: its really hard to say "if you pass these tests, you are certified to this standard" if the tests include "now insert the magic future card you get from the unicorn..." Dec 16 01:06:01 what are the advantages of android on that hardware though? Dec 16 01:06:28 jbq: somehow i don't think multi-TB hard drives were available to testers back when IDE/SATA were designed Dec 16 01:06:49 jbq: same goes for the USB drives Dec 16 01:06:51 what limits do ATAPI LBA have? it's 2TB? Dec 16 01:06:53 zinx: Well at least this time, the physical standard at least supports at least one order of magnitude beyond the standard.. IE: 2TB is more than one order of magnitude bigger than 32GB.. So upping the standard, should be easy.. Dec 16 01:06:59 jbq: there are some things that don't need to be tested in that manner. Dec 16 01:07:12 zinx: take it personally. its funny. Dec 16 01:07:33 esp since you're bitching to a random google employee instead of joining the sd consortium and influencing it that way. Dec 16 01:07:37 Disconnect: i'm not taking it personally, i'm trying to get across why it's stupid Dec 16 01:07:38 tmzt_: Over other hardware or over native OS? Dec 16 01:07:39 zinx: sounds like you have all the right ideas to create your own standard of flash cards that will go to infinity and beyond. Toshiba and Sandisk must be shaking in their boots. Dec 16 01:07:58 zinx: ...by being louder? you must be american. Dec 16 01:08:39 jbq: standards like that have very little to do with 'right ideas', they're pretty simple. what's needed is someone to implement and use them, and the sd card association certainly has more of that than me. Dec 16 01:08:42 tmzt_ Over newer hardware there is none really.. over the old OSes like Palm OS, there are plenty... It's Linux for goodness sake. Need I go on? Dec 16 01:08:51 bgupta_: I guess both, just trying to find why and android port is preferred. the funny things is that userland is the hard part of all of this Dec 16 01:09:24 bgupta_: ok, I mean over linux with another toolkit Dec 16 01:09:38 jbq: my problem with the standard they've made is that it -does- support a pretty sane amount for the tech, and it's been artificially limited for god-knows-what reason Dec 16 01:10:34 Mmmm it's kinda like when, all the old SparStationLX/IPX/IPCs had NetBSD running on them well after their EOL to breath more useful life into them. Dec 16 01:10:34 I can only guess they expect larger block sizes to be neccessary and some kind of caching to implement it Dec 16 01:10:37 and that sizes beyond 32GB will probably be incompatible with the new standard, when they release it Dec 16 01:11:40 so until they do, we're pretty much limited to 32GB cards :/ Dec 16 01:11:40 tmzt_: I suspect they are afraid of performance issues... transferring 2TB would really be like transferring a bathtub through a drinking straw.. Dec 16 01:12:07 who would be transferring 2TB though, this is one 512k block at a time Dec 16 01:12:14 zinx: like you said, the standard naturally supports larger cards, so it's highly likely that larger cards will work out of the box on many devices. Dec 16 01:12:26 jbq: yeah, just like the 4GB SD cards. Dec 16 01:12:32 jbq: that TOTALLY worked out. Dec 16 01:13:10 zinx: wasn't your earlier point that there's no need to do any testing, just write a spec and everything goes fine? Dec 16 01:13:18 i very much doubt anyone is going to implement cards >32GB until the new standard is out, specificly because of what happened with the 4GB ones. Dec 16 01:13:21 zinx: the problem was they needed to rework the spec anyway at 4GB.... if the old pysical spec could have taken them further they would most likely not have reworked the addressing Dec 16 01:13:23 jbq: 4GB cards were out of spec Dec 16 01:13:30 jbq: just like >32GB ones Dec 16 01:13:50 jbq: they could have easily put them in spec, instead of creating a new standard with a different method of accessing it Dec 16 01:13:53 what about SANs exporting single LUNs Dec 16 01:14:03 zinx: and they'd have had to ship untested devices. Dec 16 01:14:08 and supporting block addressing one single device can't Dec 16 01:14:15 jbq: they did it anyway, didn't they? Dec 16 01:14:28 that's not clear to me. Dec 16 01:14:29 zinx: No they couldn't. Well 4GB maybe, but not beyond. A new spec was required.. Dec 16 01:14:31 jbq: worked for some devices, not all (and not all because the standard specificly said 2GB was the limit) Dec 16 01:14:45 jbq: 4GB SD non-HC cards were, in fact, released Dec 16 01:14:53 bgupta_: i'm aware Dec 16 01:15:04 zinx: I thought your discussion was about 32+GB Dec 16 01:15:08 bgupta_: but the situation we have now is that the spec limits to 32GB, while the physical layer allows 2TB Dec 16 01:15:22 bgupta_: no one can make anything larger than 32GB until the new spec is released Dec 16 01:15:37 anyway, anything I can do at work will be more valuable than this discussion, sorry. I'm sure that Toshiba and Sandisk will gladly accept your feedback. Dec 16 01:15:42 bgupta_: because they're probably going to do exactly the same thing they did when SDHC was released.. change how it's accessed Dec 16 01:15:49 making all those cards >32GB useless. Dec 16 01:16:28 zinx: My point is that chances are they will be able to define a new spec without having to rework the physical layer. WHich means that we might be able to avoid the same situation.. I don't think they will define a new addressing spec. Dec 16 01:16:37 and if i were making the cards, i certainly wouldn't want to risk the same thing happening that happened w/ 4GB cards :? Dec 16 01:16:48 I think they will release some or all of the address bits for use. Dec 16 01:16:57 how many unused commands are there anyway? Dec 16 01:16:59 bgupta_: they are ABLE to, i do not believe that they WILL, and it's not a worthwile risk for companies who make the cards Dec 16 01:17:24 zinx: if you were making cards with an official SD logo, you'd probably have some visibility over that... (and power to influence it). Dec 16 01:17:26 bgupta_: the companies have already been burned on this exact matter once Dec 16 01:18:01 Agreed.. If I were a card manufacturor I would wait to see a final draft before pulling the trigger... but the difference is Adata and others made assumptions very early in the specc planning phases. Dec 16 01:18:59 i have a 16gb microsdhc on the way.. apparently the g1 can take that :p Dec 16 01:19:49 we can assume the SDCC can support anything SD2.0 does? Dec 16 01:19:53 At some point when the major players agree on a direction they can begin tooling... I bet for cost and critical mass reasons the SD card spec will be kept on life support all the way to 2TB. Dec 16 01:19:53 16GB is perfectly within specs, even 32GB is Dec 16 01:20:19 tmzt_: SDCC the codename for the >32GB standard? Dec 16 01:20:23 no Dec 16 01:20:29 the controller in the MSM chip Dec 16 01:20:35 (Even though performance is likely to really start to become a bottleneck) Dec 16 01:20:38 oh, yeah, it should do anything SDHC Dec 16 01:21:06 bgupta_: it's not going to be any more of a bottleneck than it is right now Dec 16 01:21:19 it has DMA issues with a lot of things already though, but I can't see how block addressing can be one of them Dec 16 01:21:21 bgupta_: you don't access the whole card at once Dec 16 01:21:27 right Dec 16 01:21:51 bgupta_: reading 256MB off it is reading 256MB off it, no matter how big the card is :? Dec 16 01:22:29 RIght but as file sizes go up and higher throughputs are needed, you might want to change the physical specifications to allow faster throughput rates. Dec 16 01:22:29 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3043596&postcount=1105 Dec 16 01:22:30 bgupta_ great doc Dec 16 01:22:38 but where does it mention micro sdhc? Dec 16 01:22:53 bgupta_: file sizes do not neccesarily go up Dec 16 01:23:05 bgupta_: music/video for example is not going up any Dec 16 01:23:33 or there will be a new card with lvds and smaller pitch Dec 16 01:23:34 bgupta_: well, you could make an argument for video being higher resolution Dec 16 01:23:39 bgupta_: but this is #android :P Dec 16 01:23:48 They have in my lifetime... :) Really? I used to encode 32kbps MP3s. now I encode RAW/FLAC/Apple lossless Dec 16 01:24:25 zinx: You don't think resolutions on mobile devices are going up? Look at Touch Pro Diamond and Nokia N97... Dec 16 01:24:31 bgupta_: i've always encoded at around 128kbps at least, and am not crazy enough to use lossless audio codecs on a portable device Dec 16 01:24:35 It's just a start of a trend Dec 16 01:24:42 bgupta_: do you know what processor is in N97? Dec 16 01:24:56 not sure Dec 16 01:25:11 ARM11 Dec 16 01:25:18 bgupta_ that doc doesn't mention micro sdhc Dec 16 01:25:22 omap3? Dec 16 01:25:58 michaelnovakjr: microSDHC is electrically identical to SDHC.. it's just a smaller form factor. Dec 16 01:27:11 http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n97-still-using-arm11-not-omap-3-0325004/ Dec 16 01:27:51 is there a way to accept streaming mp3's? Dec 16 01:28:24 back Dec 16 01:28:27 http://en.jinzora.com/ Dec 16 01:28:34 im wanting to get the g1 working with that Dec 16 01:28:45 you could write a music player that supports 'em Dec 16 01:29:06 d0netsFN: THere are apps in the market that should work with that Dec 16 01:29:24 any in particular? Dec 16 01:29:35 Yes one sec Dec 16 01:29:41 streamfurious Dec 16 01:29:49 http://www.cyrket.com/asset/5033835154782237815 Dec 16 01:30:32 <_avatar> so, my client has socket connection to my server, and it blocks on a read() in a background thread. i've discovered that the connection will close after 5 minutes if no data is ever read from the socket. i assume this is expected, but is there a way around it? i'd like to have an option to keep a persistent connection to my server Dec 16 01:31:05 Looks like three different apps work with shoutcast: http://www.cyrket.com/search?q=shoutcast Dec 16 01:32:03 bgupta Dec 16 01:32:05 this isnt shoutcast Dec 16 01:32:12 i installed streamfurious and tried jinzora Dec 16 01:32:22 it just acts like its loading, then doesnt do anything (like normal) Dec 16 01:32:32 streamfurious looks like it just lets you listen to shoutcast stations Dec 16 01:34:55 has anyone broken their G1 here? Dec 16 01:35:11 * SanMehat raises his hand Dec 16 01:35:20 how? Dec 16 01:35:48 heh Dec 16 01:35:51 it was an early one :) Dec 16 01:35:52 bgupta_: nothing particular here but http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?p=757353 Dec 16 01:36:06 * unix_infidel steams a spare one from SanMehat's bucket of engineering devices ;-) Dec 16 01:36:08 A better question might be how many have you broken SanMehat? :D Dec 16 01:36:10 steals* Dec 16 01:36:16 hahaha Dec 16 01:36:27 who is the person here working on androidirc? Dec 16 01:36:30 much *better* question Dec 16 01:36:33 nyt Dec 16 01:36:39 im still on my original g1 .. if it breaks, im not buying another one :P Dec 16 01:36:41 nyt is working on androidirc Dec 16 01:36:44 * unix_infidel imagines a big bucket of spare devices in the center of the mtv office ;-) Dec 16 01:37:00 * jbq broke 2 G1s. Dec 16 01:37:07 how??? Dec 16 01:37:08 (well, 2 prototypes) Dec 16 01:37:13 i didnt break one per say Dec 16 01:37:16 hehe.. my friends calls it the "gaygle" phone Dec 16 01:37:19 i think a little water got in my butons Dec 16 01:37:23 and made the back lights stay on for a bit Dec 16 01:37:26 the battery controller died on one of them, the screen cable on the other. Dec 16 01:37:26 i called tmo and they sent another Dec 16 01:37:37 i broke 1 by putting the wrong voltage thorugh it.. (i thought i was hooked up to channel A (2.5V), but i was hooked into channel B (12V) Dec 16 01:37:42 but the problem had gone away when it was time to send it in Dec 16 01:37:53 some nice smoke on that one :) Dec 16 01:38:28 do users have passwords on android? Dec 16 01:38:37 ? Dec 16 01:38:56 you mean, UIDs? Dec 16 01:38:58 that would need nss or soemthing Dec 16 01:39:04 michaelnovakjr: you need to know the SIM unlock code to make calls, and optionally you can lock the screen with a "pattern" Dec 16 01:39:09 other than that, no passwords that I know of Dec 16 01:39:33 d0netsFN: Looked at the site you linked me, saw shoutcast mentioned. Didn't read to far beyond that... gotta go AFK for a few minutes again, will did deaper into the jinzora site and see what it actually does when I get back. Dec 16 01:39:47 s/did/dig/ Dec 16 01:39:54 ok Dec 16 01:39:55 thanks Dec 16 01:39:57 you should check it out Dec 16 01:40:08 it creates a nice web UI for all your music Dec 16 01:40:14 and lets you make playlists and stream all your music Dec 16 01:40:20 i can create you an account to test it from if you want Dec 16 01:40:46 i have tried m3u and pls Dec 16 01:40:48 to no avail Dec 16 01:42:32 bgupta_, do you know the owner of cyrket? Dec 16 01:45:33 we need fiiiiive Dec 16 01:45:38 isn't that what five is for? (music) Dec 16 01:45:50 * eldenz slaps jasta :) Dec 16 01:46:15 disconnect yes but five is only for android Dec 16 01:46:19 pardon? Dec 16 01:46:22 jinzora works for anything wiht a browser Dec 16 01:47:08 the web is the wrong platform for that problem. Dec 16 01:47:20 works fine for me Dec 16 01:47:24 and has for a long time Dec 16 01:47:33 just cause android dosnt work with it doesnt mean its the wrong platform Dec 16 01:47:37 hmm, nice. quote pro manages it's own updates. Dec 16 01:47:41 namely what the web does poorly is offer responsive, interactive user interfaces for mobile phones Dec 16 01:48:05 jasta that depends on the interface of each app Dec 16 01:48:10 jinzora lays i tout nicely Dec 16 01:48:16 i usually just hit "play random X number of songs" Dec 16 01:48:31 the problem isnt the interface, its just not streaming period Dec 16 01:48:45 you probably do that because all other things are too cumbersome ;-) Dec 16 01:48:50 i'm not going to have this argument with you. Dec 16 01:49:02 jasta <3 Dec 16 01:49:09 im sure five is nice , i will try it out Dec 16 01:49:13 but i want jinzora working Dec 16 01:49:38 haha this is a pointless conversation Dec 16 01:50:41 orly? Dec 16 01:50:45 want to try out jinzora? Dec 16 01:50:52 then tell me its pointless? Dec 16 01:51:26 bbl folks, gotta boot into windows to play some left4dead :) Dec 16 01:52:07 probably need to write an app that uses Jinzora's streaming method, whatever that is Dec 16 01:52:27 possibly just sends over HTTP, but i'm not going to download it to find out :/ Dec 16 01:52:47 eldenz: Not personally. It's Jay Freeman, the guy who did the Debian to G1 port. (saurik). Dec 16 01:53:41 zinx Dec 16 01:53:50 i will create you an account on mine Dec 16 01:55:12 saurik, it would be nice if you could display a clickable link on each app page (cyrket.net) that will open the Market : Dec 16 01:55:33 ok zinx i created you an account Dec 16 01:55:38 bgupta you now? Dec 16 01:56:04 Yeah I am back for a bit... my wife wants to yank me away from computer though... Dec 16 01:56:13 ok Dec 16 01:56:39 Looking at the site... looks like jinzara is open source... (or at least parts of it are.) Dec 16 01:56:48 ok bgupta ygpm Dec 16 02:01:13 is the new gmail pdf reader flash based? Dec 16 02:08:19 hmm, interesting, i can get google docs to work with steel. Dec 16 02:08:41 woah, had no idea that gtalk/aim used sms messages! what a load of crap! Dec 16 02:08:52 :) Dec 16 02:08:57 you would think at that premium, it would stay connected :) Dec 16 02:09:31 just not very well at all ;-( Dec 16 02:09:57 wow really? Dec 16 02:10:01 gtalk uses sms? Dec 16 02:10:19 wtf is the point then? Dec 16 02:10:40 i know, totally pointless Dec 16 02:10:44 which is why the unlimited data plan is better Dec 16 02:10:50 they want you to spend more money Dec 16 02:10:59 i do have unlimited data, just limited sms messaging (400 messages) Dec 16 02:11:21 just glad i got sick of the thing disconnecting all the time or i woulda racked up a huge bill Dec 16 02:11:37 unlimited g1 data comes with unlimited sms for me Dec 16 02:12:14 you can download Meebo from the marketplace, msgs come from your data allowance then Dec 16 02:12:27 michaelnovakjr Dec 16 02:12:31 both data plans are unlimited Dec 16 02:12:36 one just doesnt have unlimited texts Dec 16 02:12:42 the only reason i'd want it is to stay connected, meebo doesn't do that either Dec 16 02:12:47 i just use bitlbee now Dec 16 02:12:54 ah well, i have unlimited sms too Dec 16 02:13:56 now it *really blows my mind why aim can't stay online Dec 16 02:14:01 i would even use it knowing it used sms Dec 16 02:19:23 gtalk doesn't use sms. just aim/msn Dec 16 02:19:27 fyi Dec 16 02:20:29 oh really? Dec 16 02:20:30 good Dec 16 02:20:55 Woah, AIM uses sms instead of just a connection to the AIM servers? Dec 16 02:21:10 no. they just bill it that way. Dec 16 02:21:20 i duno, all i use is gtalk and aim, and the aim messages said 'AIM' on them, maybe just incoming wasn't labeled.. Dec 16 02:21:20 jesus does nobody read their contracts? Dec 16 02:21:29 haha Dec 16 02:21:36 *ba-doom-ch* Dec 16 02:21:40 it doesn't go over sms Dec 16 02:21:41 Disconnect: funny, that's a good ine Dec 16 02:21:41 one Dec 16 02:21:53 geist: AIM messages are charged as sms Dec 16 02:21:56 but it does go through the mobile village or whatnever it's called Dec 16 02:22:06 they're charges as messages, like SMS and MMS. Dec 16 02:22:08 its not just contract. its even in the brief "features" list. Dec 16 02:22:18 It's IMPS (formerly known as Wireless Village) Dec 16 02:22:25 unless you're over wifi Dec 16 02:22:26 real men don't read docs :) Dec 16 02:22:44 Oh, you're just signing a contract for about $1500, it's not like you're gonna read the details :D Dec 16 02:22:45 Dingo, yea you just pay large bills Dec 16 02:22:47 they are charged as messages apart from google accounts, cmon folks im in the UK and even im upto date on this one Dec 16 02:22:48 lol Dec 16 02:23:17 they havnt made it that clear tho, one would assume it would come out of data Dec 16 02:23:35 I don't read contracts as thoroughly as I should...but I'm a fan of the "all you can eat" type plans anyways Dec 16 02:23:59 especially since the same tmo sells sidekicks which have all you can eat aim Dec 16 02:24:14 you should probably also be aware that if you don't opt-out, you can't sue T-Mobile for any reason or be part of a class-action suit, according to their T&C :P Dec 16 02:26:14 hahaha "its not clear" wtf are you smoking? Dec 16 02:27:02 its always described as "and 400 messages (text, IM and email)" Dec 16 02:27:07 http://www.t-mobileg1.com/g1-learn-faqs-phone.aspx for example Dec 16 02:27:30 i guess gTalk is web-based chat, not IM? :x Dec 16 02:27:47 gmail uses data though, they mean if you use sms to email? Dec 16 02:27:59 lol, they shoulda had all data use sms Dec 16 02:28:11 ,..for fcks sake. NO. it is ALL data. ALL OF IT. they just CHARGE YOU MONEY BECAUSE YOU'LL PAY IT. Dec 16 02:28:26 tmzt_: they mean if you use your t-mobile email i think Dec 16 02:29:05 zinx did you check out jinzora? Dec 16 02:29:10 I don't understand why the charge more for SMS...it actually is cheaper for them than if you sent it over data Dec 16 02:29:18 d0netsFN: couldn't log in, didn't care enough. would only need music URL anyway. Dec 16 02:29:29 d0netsFN: to know vaguely how it streams Dec 16 02:29:45 http://localhost/jinzora2/index.php?action=playlist&jz_path=Eric+Claptopn-Cream&ext.m3u Dec 16 02:29:55 ismarc: because they can. Dec 16 02:30:08 d0netsFN: hmm, can you post that somewhere? seems like shoutcast so far Dec 16 02:30:19 what do you mean Dec 16 02:30:42 d0netsFN: wget -O foo.m3u "http://localhost/jinzora2/index.php?action=playlist&jz_path=Eric+Claptopn-Cream&ext.m3u" Dec 16 02:30:49 d0netsFN: and post foo.m3u to a pastebin or something Dec 16 02:31:18 or just paste the URL line of it here, whatever :/ Dec 16 02:32:21 http://pastebin.com/m19e1a35c Dec 16 02:32:34 is that what you want? Dec 16 02:32:49 no :x meant paste the contents of foo.m3u :P Dec 16 02:33:05 although it looks like you got a password request page instead Dec 16 02:33:25 k Dec 16 02:33:25 http://pastebin.com/m716e9d37 Dec 16 02:33:43 may have to use username:password@localhost instead of just localhost Dec 16 02:33:47 yeah, that's a login page Dec 16 02:33:51 is this android related? Dec 16 02:34:05 yes michael Dec 16 02:34:06 michaelnovakjr: believe it or not, it is Dec 16 02:34:07 same thing as earlier Dec 16 02:34:14 im trying to get jinzora to stream to my g1 Dec 16 02:34:44 eldenz: does android market support such a link? if so, I agree (if not, then that is out of my control ;P) Dec 16 02:34:59 (although I'm not certain why you are using that site /on/ the device ;P) Dec 16 02:35:14 huh? Dec 16 02:35:32 is the G1 internal memory on board? Dec 16 02:35:55 michaelnovakjr_: what do you mean? Dec 16 02:36:01 no it lives on the google servers Dec 16 02:36:02 michaelnovakjr: integrated flash chip, yes Dec 16 02:36:08 saurik, i thought there is a content:// url... like content://market/?q=blah (but i'm not sure) Dec 16 02:36:31 the RAM is split between on-chip and on-board, the flash is on-board. Dec 16 02:36:55 jbq: is it soldered on to the main board? Dec 16 02:37:03 michaelnovakjr: yup Dec 16 02:37:09 i was typing to slow, thanks :) Dec 16 02:37:31 plus, it's a combined RAM+flash chip, so it might not be that easy to replace or upgrade. Dec 16 02:37:38 eldenz: I think there is Dec 16 02:37:55 hopefully the stock G1 firmware will either eventually allow root, or allow offloading stuff to SD :x Dec 16 02:38:08 zinx: no, yes. Dec 16 02:38:10 eldenz: ok, I haven't seen one for market (and I'm not finding one quickly with a google search), but I'll keep my eyes open and will add it if I see it Dec 16 02:38:16 jbq, i figured as much Dec 16 02:38:20 saurik: http://code.google.com/android/devel/sign-publish.html at the bottom of the page Dec 16 02:38:51 Disconnect: predictions, or rewriting of hopes? Dec 16 02:39:09 statements. Dec 16 02:39:17 Leeds: awesome, thanks! I'll add support for that in a few hours (I'm seriously supposed to be working on my MAE right now, and even being distracted saying stuff here is bad of me ;P) Dec 16 02:39:17 Disconnect: predictions, then :P Dec 16 02:39:24 nice Leeds, thx Dec 16 02:39:36 * saurik (forces himself to close this window) Dec 16 02:39:37 tmob works hard to keep root out. as do all android producers, because retail device with root enabled breaks all the security that the app developers and product sellers are relying on. Dec 16 02:39:41 cool saurik, no hurries.. i'm going to sleep right now anyway :p Dec 16 02:39:48 Disconnect: definitely agree with that one Dec 16 02:40:09 Disconnect: in that t-mobile acts and thinks that way Dec 16 02:40:30 its not tmobile. its a requirement of the security model. Dec 16 02:40:43 Disconnect: disagree with that part :) Dec 16 02:40:58 go read the security model. you have been disagreeing with shit all night. Dec 16 02:41:04 note that i'm not saying RC29 and below didn't have a huge glaring and very bad security hole, however. because they did. Dec 16 02:41:28 Disconnect: you only allow the owner of the phone to get root. nothing breaks. :/ Dec 16 02:41:31 its one byte to enable root for developers. (ro.secure = 0 instead of 1). its not off by accident. Dec 16 02:41:56 zinx: DRM breaks Dec 16 02:41:58 a user with root means that applications can have root Dec 16 02:41:58 without something like selinux, that mkaes the security model untenable. because it guarantees that nothing INCLUDING THE USER can access or modify the data. Dec 16 02:42:13 applications with root means that the entire security model is broken Dec 16 02:42:15 jbq: you're using the direct rendering manager? ;-) Dec 16 02:43:08 if your security model truely can't allow the owner of the device root, then my humble opinion is that your security model is broken. Dec 16 02:43:54 part of the security model is that the data and app is inviolate. how do you enforce that when the user can alter it at will? Dec 16 02:44:19 wow. not this discussion again? :D Dec 16 02:44:28 and don't forget private. Dec 16 02:44:31 JesusFreke: Disconnect has bees in his bonnet Dec 16 02:44:40 JesusFreke: zinx has been objecting to stuff all day. Dec 16 02:44:47 Leeds: wtf is your problem? Dec 16 02:44:54 * JesusFreke stays out of it :p Dec 16 02:44:59 Disconnect: nothing... what's yours? Dec 16 02:45:04 Disconnect: i object to a lot of stuff, live with it :/ Dec 16 02:45:15 Disconnect: or /ignore me Dec 16 02:45:28 Leeds: you, apparently. Dec 16 02:46:28 zinx: if you have a new security model that gives root but still provides the same capabilities and guarantees as the existing one, feel free to document it and test it out on the emulator. chances are -very- good you could get it into the next rev of android if its better than the one that is there now. Dec 16 02:46:56 Disconnect: i certainly don't have a new one, but there's an old one that works quite well. Dec 16 02:47:04 Disconnect: it's simple... your point have been made - about the bot and the security model - and I'm not going to argue that you're wrong - in fact, I think you're probably right about both of them (apart from the crap in infobot, which is harmless)... it doesn't do any good to keep going on about them though Dec 16 02:47:38 that's all Dec 16 02:47:39 Leeds: wow you're so far off base its actually funny. if you wnat to catch up on tonight's conversation i'll be around a while longer. Dec 16 02:47:49 Disconnect: it's the UNIX security model. which Android already uses, and even creates more users to have apps a bit more locked down. And that's great, imho. Dec 16 02:48:14 Disconnect: i don't understand how giving the owner root is supposed to break this security model. Dec 16 02:48:24 zinx: ..the unix security model doesn't provide any guarantees of data protection. android does. that only works if you have no superuser. Dec 16 02:48:33 this is becoming annoying Dec 16 02:48:36 DRM Dec 16 02:48:42 its obvious why there's no root Dec 16 02:49:04 yeah, very obvious - t-mobile doesn't want the core system altered Dec 16 02:49:08 zinx: seriously. if you can read files belonging to an application, or change files belonging to an application, you do not provide the same guarantees as the existing model. and therefor its a non-starter. Dec 16 02:49:18 Is there a way to quickly turn off email/SMS notifications when going to sleep? (e.g. Time for sleep, so I don't want noise-distractions in the middle of the night). The blackberry offers this by way of having sound-profiles which you can customize so you can have profiles of sound-selections for different situations Dec 16 02:49:18 jbq: DRM is broken by design, i ignore it for the most part. Dec 16 02:49:19 and its not tmobile. seriously. its not. for once, its not them.. Dec 16 02:49:36 zinx: how convenient, you ignore the tough parts. Dec 16 02:49:47 Disconnect: i don't understand why it's bad for the OWNER OF THE PHONE to be able to modify or change files belonging to an application. Dec 16 02:49:47 Bossmanbeta: i use asettings or um.. toggle settigns i think. couple of quick-set apps to set ringer to 'vibrate' Dec 16 02:50:06 jbq: DRM is not just tough, but nigh impossible Dec 16 02:50:39 Disconnect, I'll check into that.. any apps come to mind? I don't want the RINGER set to vibrate or off, just alerts... (3am calls may be emergencies, but no need to be awoke by 3am SPAM) Dec 16 02:50:40 jbq: perfect audio DRM, for example, is where you have to pay for the music but don't actually get it at all, and can't listen to it. Dec 16 02:50:55 Bossmanbeta: check out those 2, should be ok. Dec 16 02:51:24 * Disconnect doesn't think zinx would be any happier with his version of the security model either, since he'd have all the root and none of the power :) Dec 16 02:51:26 Disconnect, I notice that since I got the latest Android firmware update this morning, my battery rating/usage is crazy... after a full charge I seem to lose 15% of my battery in the span of 15mins Dec 16 02:51:39 where can i get a bigger memory card? Dec 16 02:51:43 Bossmanbeta: deep-cycle it to calibrate. run it until it absolutely won't turn on. Dec 16 02:51:53 mine is getting smaller Dec 16 02:51:54 then chargeit UNINTERRUPTED for 8+ hours - more is better Dec 16 02:52:21 (Build: 1.0 TC4-RC30 116143) Dec 16 02:52:21 ivantis2: http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/essential-g1adp1-accessories has some links if you are serious :) Dec 16 02:52:23 Disconnect: i still don't understand how having root breaks anything, other than perhaps DRM Dec 16 02:52:24 ivantis2: I suggest compact flash - much bigger than microSD Dec 16 02:52:38 works on G1? Dec 16 02:52:44 oh, no... Dec 16 02:53:01 zinx: right. because you go "i don't like that part so i'll ignore it. why won't anyone tell me why it doesn't make sense??" Dec 16 02:53:05 zinx: that 'other than' is important to Google and t-mob (and other appropriate people) Dec 16 02:53:16 Leeds: the evil commercial application developers Dec 16 02:53:33 Disconnect: then you're saying the only thing root breaks is DRM? Dec 16 02:53:43 Disconnect: yeah, them bastards Dec 16 02:53:50 zinx, you will not win.... just stop Dec 16 02:54:00 michaelnovakjr: i want clarification on what it breaks Dec 16 02:54:13 Disconnect, read that, but I did not have this problem pre-update to firmware - I think I was running RC29 (came with the unit) Dec 16 02:54:14 go play with the emulator and report back Dec 16 02:54:14 michaelnovakjr: i'm not trying to win anything Dec 16 02:54:21 zinx: depending on how it's made available, of course, it can also break the entire security of the system - destroy the application sandboxes, for example Dec 16 02:54:25 go read the security model, then try discussing it. it has a set of requirements and discussion on how it meets them. Dec 16 02:54:38 Leeds: if the owner does that, it's their own damned fault Dec 16 02:54:54 those requirements are just that - requirements. if you read it and decide you have a model that fits ALL the requirements but still allows root or is in some other way better, then bring it back Dec 16 02:55:11 zinx: many of the owners are consumers and therefore stupid Dec 16 02:55:49 personally, I think adb - or something equally obscure - should be able to access root Dec 16 02:56:34 i get the feeling i'm talking to people who have zero experience with unix-style security here Dec 16 02:56:56 hahaha Dec 16 02:56:59 ...wow stop making me laugh i can't breath Dec 16 02:57:10 *cough* *cough* *cough* Dec 16 02:57:17 zinx: I've worked as a software engineer for two UNIX vendors Dec 16 02:57:30 Disconnect, is that necessary to run the battery down to 0 then recharge up? Li-Ion batters don't like to be run down, they perform less efificently, as I've read.. and I didn't have this issue with RC29, I'm thinking it's a firmware issue Dec 16 02:57:37 note - Android *certainly* isn't unix, isn't trying to be unix, isn't interested in being unix... or Linux either Dec 16 02:57:58 Leeds: it does use the same security model under the hood, however Dec 16 02:58:06 Bossmanbeta: the calibration on the batteries is junk, so its necessary at least once. and its pretty much 100% goign to cure "weird discharge patterns".. since thats caused by calibration issues.. Dec 16 02:58:13 Leeds: with the only major difference being applications each get their own user Dec 16 02:58:16 no, it uses a *different* security model above the hood Dec 16 02:58:17 Bossmanbeta: but its your phone. don't argue with me, either do it or not.. Dec 16 02:58:19 and that's not really so major Dec 16 02:58:40 Disconnect, please don't be rude, I'm not arguing with you, I am trying to understand the logic with additional questions. Dec 16 02:58:50 I'm sorry if you find that agitating.. Dec 16 02:58:53 it's a single-user platform with sandboxed applications Dec 16 02:58:58 Bossmanbeta: he doesn't answer additional questions, he just tells you you're wrong Dec 16 02:59:25 "you should do foo" "but is it necessary to do foo?" .. no, but it won't get fixed otherwsie (or at least, not for a -long- time as the calibration adjustment slowly changes to match the actual battery) Dec 16 02:59:38 Well I don't know everyone in this channel (yet), so I was making no assumptions and take people as they come. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 16 02:59:57 2008