**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 16 02:59:57 2008 Dec 16 03:00:01 Disconnect, what's more funny is when it's at 25%, reboot it, it's at 50%, and then it slowly counts down how much battery is left Dec 16 03:00:05 fun to watch Dec 16 03:00:21 Damm: yah calibration issues are funny Dec 16 03:00:25 why ask a question then ignore the answer lol Dec 16 03:00:43 anyway, when people ignore my questions and repeat the same thing, i assume they don't know what they're talking about :/ Dec 16 03:00:48 so if i've misjudged you, forgive me Dec 16 03:00:49 I need to start letting the battery drain 100% and then charge it. Dec 16 03:00:50 i have an ebook reader that used to spend -weeks- at 5% (literally, out of a 3 week charge it would spend 1.5 or more at "i'm gonna die!aaahah!" levels..) Dec 16 03:00:54 but i do have reasons for doing so Dec 16 03:01:12 Disconnect, However I don't know (yet) your experience with Android, so for all I know, your offer of advice is just as broken as the battery calibration on the Android -- so a little probing by me, is trying to make sure the suggestion makes sense, if you don't care for that minor vetting process, perhaps advice-giving shouldn't be your default mode of operation Dec 16 03:01:35 ..either way, thank you for the tip. Dec 16 03:01:51 On a completely unrelated note, I -still- hate Fedex Dec 16 03:01:52 zinx, with the exception of the googlers you pretty much hit the nail on the head... not many here understand unix-style security Dec 16 03:02:07 zinx, let alone properly understand androids security Dec 16 03:02:33 zinx, that's why #android is general chat, and #android-dev is the development... Dec 16 03:02:35 is a battery discharge/recharge the only way to fix it, and does it stay fixed, or would this happen again in time? Dec 16 03:02:39 Damm: :P Dec 16 03:02:45 i'm sure there's a #android-hackers, but that's only so useful Dec 16 03:03:22 Bossmanbeta: http://tinyurl.com/597usg Dec 16 03:03:24 zinx, problem with the mobile community is usually they want to hack it so they can put WinMo on the G1. Dec 16 03:03:30 Damm: funnily, this whole security discussion sprang from a random hope i have that i know won't happen Dec 16 03:03:49 Damm: hahhah :D Dec 16 03:04:06 Disconnect, I've already googled this topic.. and I was thinking I'd check here, becuase maybe I'd find someone who wasn't repeating a mistake they Googled. Dec 16 03:04:11 rofl! I just got an email from brightstar that my dev phone shipped Dec 16 03:04:17 JesusFreke: the one you're holding? :) Dec 16 03:04:21 nevermind the fact that I got it thursday of last week Dec 16 03:04:22 JesusFreke: what's the ETA? Dec 16 03:04:25 i'm more interested in a platform i can fix myself to do what i want than one that works as advertised :P Dec 16 03:04:34 zinx: then you want a devphone not a G1 Dec 16 03:04:40 zinx: get an n810. its designed for that. (or, yah, a dev phone) Dec 16 03:04:42 Leeds: certainly, but i'm poor too Dec 16 03:04:44 zinx, but don't feel bad... I've told several people to shut up (like DarkRift) Dec 16 03:04:50 zinx: dive in: http://source.android.com/ Dec 16 03:04:50 "shipping times vary based on the shipping method you selected" Dec 16 03:04:59 I guess I got the -4 day shipping :D Dec 16 03:05:06 JesusFreke: all that stupid movie stuff clogging up your internets Dec 16 03:05:06 zinx: so you want a pony too? Dec 16 03:05:07 jbq: been there done that, can't alter core components with my phone currently Dec 16 03:05:10 jbq, he suffers the same problem all RC30 users do. Dec 16 03:05:13 zinx: you don't need a device to work on the security model. Dec 16 03:05:13 Leeds: not really, no Dec 16 03:05:19 jbq: i suggested that already Dec 16 03:05:26 jbq: nothing is wrong with the security model Dec 16 03:05:36 hahahahahahahahahaha Dec 16 03:05:38 jbq: and yeah, i would. Dec 16 03:05:43 zinx: weren't you complaining earlier that you can't get root? Dec 16 03:05:44 heh wow from one extreme to the other Dec 16 03:05:51 jbq: but the emulator would suffice Dec 16 03:05:57 * Disconnect would have bet that the right answer is in the middle somewhere, but.. Dec 16 03:06:02 jbq: not having root has nothing to do with the security model... Dec 16 03:06:04 With all the battery-noise I hear, I'm sure Google will release a patch to this issue soon, seems reasonable. Dec 16 03:06:19 zinx: except that the security model is implemented on top of the notion that you can't have root. Dec 16 03:06:22 jbq: except that the security model works as advertised, in that if there's no explicit way to offer root, you can't get it Dec 16 03:06:36 how should i clean my screen? Dec 16 03:06:44 jbq: i assert that it isn't, and i've yet to hear a single thing giving root to the owner breaks apart from DRM Dec 16 03:06:44 * jbq decides it's a good time to go home. Dec 16 03:06:56 jbq: have a good evening Dec 16 03:07:02 ivantis2: water and clean cloth is recommended, but i've used glasses cleaner on it w/o issue. Dec 16 03:07:08 zinx, T-Mobile decision. Dec 16 03:07:11 ivantis2, piss and vinegar. Dec 16 03:07:21 jbq: and i would assert also that DRM is broken anyway because you can record from the headphone jack :P Dec 16 03:07:24 ivantis2: your tongue Dec 16 03:07:36 zinx: DRM does not just cover audio Dec 16 03:07:36 * JesusFreke licks his screen Dec 16 03:07:43 just buy a new phone if it gets dirty Dec 16 03:07:51 JesusFreke: mmm.... tasty tasty finger oils! Dec 16 03:07:56 Leeds: everything DRM covers is broken. if you can listen to it, read it, view it, etc, then it can be copied. Dec 16 03:08:05 Leeds: tastes like olive oil. Dec 16 03:08:11 nice! Dec 16 03:08:19 Leeds: and if you can't, then the "protected" content is useless anyway, because you can't listen to it, read it, view it, or etc. Dec 16 03:08:33 * JesusFreke fries some french fries in finger oil :p Dec 16 03:08:40 Leeds: but this is an entirely different discussion Dec 16 03:09:14 Leeds: i wouldn't mind converting my G1 to a Dev phone, but that's not an option available to me Dec 16 03:09:24 kay Dec 16 03:09:52 Leeds: i would also, though it may be perplexing to you, probably lock down root a bit more than it normally is with a dev phone. Dec 16 03:10:37 I just finished reading the scrollback from the last hour Dec 16 03:10:43 You people are all insane. Dec 16 03:10:48 brocktice: have a good laugh? :) Dec 16 03:10:54 just need a signed NBH for the Dev G1... and then everyone can have root Dec 16 03:11:02 JesusFreke, I did have a few good chuckles... Dec 16 03:12:57 I asked this last night and don't think I saw a response... can you change the functionality of the long press on the send button somehow (to hook the voice dialer back up to it on a dev phone, for example) Dec 16 03:13:14 Captain_Dingo, been wondering that myself Dec 16 03:13:21 has anyone tried busybox2? i installed and get nothing but segmentation faults Dec 16 03:14:01 captain_dingo, I don't know about hooking it, but you should be able to install the voice dialer apk from RC30 onto the dev phone, and get that functionality Dec 16 03:14:03 Captain_Dingo: I believe I've seen it mentioned that it calls an intent, so it would be possible to re-assign it... but I'm pretty sure that's not a standard feature of the device Dec 16 03:14:03 i just used some glasses cleaner, worked well Dec 16 03:14:17 JesusFreke, it never would install for me Dec 16 03:14:22 amazon store did Dec 16 03:14:23 JF: That part I planned on doing already... just curious about the other part Dec 16 03:14:49 Captain_Dingo: gotcha. I dunno about hooking it from a third party app Dec 16 03:15:09 brocktice: if you copy it into /system/app and reboot, it should work Dec 16 03:15:10 nyc is the one working on android irc right? Dec 16 03:15:13 something I'll have to dig into if fedex ever quits holding my phone hostage Dec 16 03:15:18 JesusFreke, oh, thanks. Dec 16 03:15:37 ivantis2: nyt, I think... Dec 16 03:15:38 brocktice: it will automatically install when it boots back up Dec 16 03:15:48 Oh, hey, I just got my Brightstar email as well -- in K-9 on my devphone. Dec 16 03:15:53 nyt Dec 16 03:15:54 oh Dec 16 03:16:01 How's that for self-reference? Dec 16 03:16:04 actually lemme flash the dev image back onto my phone and try it out, just to be sure :) Dec 16 03:16:08 Any way to create speed dials from the dial-pad? (Tmobile sets the -1- as a voicemail, so it should eb possible to set the others) -- I haven't yet seen an application to do this. AnyCut allows you to make qucik-dial icons, but that eats desktop space.. Dec 16 03:16:14 JesusFreke, I can try it, no worries. Dec 16 03:16:27 i want to work on android irc Dec 16 03:16:30 Really strange things happened when I tried to install the ImProvider stuff from the G1, though. Dec 16 03:16:48 Now that I know Tmo is charging me SMSes for AIM I don't want it anyway. Dec 16 03:16:48 brocktice: but I would still like to verify myself Dec 16 03:16:53 are there any tell-later bots here? Dec 16 03:16:55 JesusFreke, Sure thing Dec 16 03:17:00 There is an android IRC client Dec 16 03:17:04 ivantis2, Don't bring up the bots Dec 16 03:17:08 heh Dec 16 03:17:11 rofl Dec 16 03:17:15 ? Dec 16 03:17:20 Just don't Dec 16 03:17:30 it's like fight club Dec 16 03:17:37 you just don't talk about it Dec 16 03:17:47 You'll wake up someone whose name starts with a "D" and rhymes with "isconnect" Dec 16 03:17:51 first rule of fight club.......... Dec 16 03:18:02 ivantis, check this: http://androidirc.net/ Dec 16 03:18:20 brocktice, you mean Discon.. oh. nevermind. Dec 16 03:18:25 :) Dec 16 03:18:53 although typing irc-level on that little keyboard would kill me Dec 16 03:19:03 perhaps with a USB keyboard lol Dec 16 03:19:14 right Dec 16 03:19:21 i irc with connectbot all the time Dec 16 03:19:23 it's not a big deal Dec 16 03:19:38 no doubt Damm, I can't hanle that much keyboarding on that little thing Dec 16 03:20:00 bwahahaha Dec 16 03:20:03 I'd love to tunnel over SSH my VLC home cable TV feed to my G1 ... once a VLC client is released...... Dec 16 03:20:22 The iPhone has topped WM's market share Dec 16 03:20:24 i have txtspeed on my g1, my wpm is 17 Dec 16 03:20:30 I don't know if that's installed or sales Dec 16 03:20:48 i got toodo for my android Dec 16 03:21:02 toodle-oo Dec 16 03:21:07 17 is slow for a full keyboard Dec 16 03:21:10 dunno for thumbboard Dec 16 03:21:14 I tried the VNC app (over ssh) on the G1.. the VNC app isn't ready yet Dec 16 03:21:17 Ballmer in April 2007: There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. Dec 16 03:21:17 ...crashes a lot. Dec 16 03:21:19 i am v. slow never typed on a mobile device before. Dec 16 03:21:40 Bossmanbeta, You got further than me -- I couldn't even get VNC to connect. Dec 16 03:21:53 brocktice, I got it to work just fine.... it crashes a lot though Dec 16 03:22:02 brocktice, same here Dec 16 03:22:03 even got it to work ovr an SSH tunnel Dec 16 03:22:05 And that was on my lan, no ssh involved Dec 16 03:22:13 but the app isn't stable... Dec 16 03:22:28 and the ifferent graphics modes it offers also causes crashes if you try to change midstream Dec 16 03:22:33 different* Dec 16 03:23:16 brocktice, the best results I had was going WIFI and connecting to a local box Dec 16 03:23:43 Bossmanbeta, Sounds like it may have been updated since I tried it Dec 16 03:24:16 most of these apps don't seem to auto-update so an uninstall/reinstall seems appropriate right now for upgrading Dec 16 03:24:35 I'm still pretty disappointed with RC30 causing all this battery crap..... seems unnecessary Dec 16 03:24:55 Bossmanbeta, there are much better reasons to be disappointed with your RC30 upgrade. Dec 16 03:25:20 brocktice, well I'm not a programmer, so if there are reasons along that line, I wouldn't be aware (or feeling) them Dec 16 03:25:35 Bossmanbeta, it closed the root access hole. Dec 16 03:25:37 It worked better under the release it came with (rc29) Dec 16 03:25:43 I read about that Dec 16 03:25:43 So probably you wouldn't care. Dec 16 03:26:01 Yea, you're right (personally) but that doesn't mean I don't care generally :) Dec 16 03:26:08 From what I know about RC30 I doubt it's causing your troubles. Dec 16 03:26:10 I'm sure it'll annoy some programmers Dec 16 03:26:25 I do think Google left a little too much to the development community Dec 16 03:26:32 If you look all over the various forums you'll find people saying all kinds of things about the battery effects of RC30. Dec 16 03:26:39 Most of it is placebo effect, I think. Dec 16 03:26:57 well I noticed it sharply.. I only bought my unit 3 days ago..... and it chose to update me this morning Dec 16 03:27:03 so I was fine for day 1 and 2 Dec 16 03:27:04 Battery life is kind of a grey area, short of running a strict test protocol. Dec 16 03:27:14 battery usage was ok and I was wondering what all the forum hubub was about Dec 16 03:27:22 .........then I got RC30 this morning.. I now udnerstand Dec 16 03:27:38 and all that tells me is, it's off by some percentage Dec 16 03:27:44 Bossmanbeta, Disconnect was right about the calibration. Dec 16 03:27:46 so if it says 85%... it means 98% Dec 16 03:27:54 I just have to figure out the error spread Dec 16 03:27:55 You're right about Li-ion batteries too Dec 16 03:28:08 yea which is why I wont do that to the battery Dec 16 03:28:10 It won't kill it to drain it all of the way once, and it helps the calibration. Dec 16 03:28:26 What you don't want to do is drain it all of the way every time. Dec 16 03:28:27 I won't kill the battery to get a better read on it's charge rate... seems like throwing the baby out w/the bathwater to me Dec 16 03:28:33 Total opposite of nicad. Dec 16 03:28:39 most devices shut off before the battery is 100% drained Dec 16 03:28:50 my thinking is to let it do its own thing Dec 16 03:29:00 and figure out (if I can) the error spread Dec 16 03:29:06 that is, if it doesn't change Dec 16 03:29:19 I'm thinking it won't change........ it's off by some fixed percentage........ Dec 16 03:29:28 but i think the sweet spot for lithium-ion is something like 40%-60% Dec 16 03:29:36 alright people, back to some work stuff for me. night/morning/whatever. Dec 16 03:29:51 Hi. Is there a way to set the Alarm Clock volume? It's a bit loud Dec 16 03:30:01 (overcharging a li-ion battery is as bad as draining it all the way :/ ) Dec 16 03:30:04 It seems to ignore the "ringer volume" Dec 16 03:30:24 zinx is there a risk of overcharging? I think the battery is set to accept only what it can Dec 16 03:30:28 though not sure Dec 16 03:30:35 Bossmanbeta: no, the charger hardware should prevent that Dec 16 03:30:45 tyhat's what I thought..... Dec 16 03:31:05 afaik it takes a 2a charge Dec 16 03:31:09 wish this dev phone thing had a shipment tracker Dec 16 03:31:19 wasabi, it does, track by reference number Dec 16 03:31:24 it is disconcerting to see "40%" battery... after moderate use......... I'm going to figure it's off by X percentage and see how I fare w/that Dec 16 03:31:25 where at? Dec 16 03:31:27 Damm: li-ion chargers are a tad more complicated than just "push 2a all the time" Dec 16 03:31:32 wasabi, fedex.com Dec 16 03:31:40 oh is that what that number is? Dec 16 03:31:40 Damm: it's more "push 2a unless bad stuff is happening" :P Dec 16 03:31:42 duh Dec 16 03:31:53 wasabi, yep Dec 16 03:31:59 zinx, interesting Dec 16 03:32:07 well my lack of knowledge of battery technology is supreme Dec 16 03:32:13 so whatever I can learn... will go to no use Dec 16 03:32:13 Damm: have to monitor temperature, how much it's charged, etc Dec 16 03:32:35 li-ion batteries have a tendancy to explode if they get too hot Dec 16 03:32:39 Foxdie: i have a question if you are here/not too busy Dec 16 03:32:44 very bad for business. Dec 16 03:32:46 do any of the google developers hang here .. to field these types of questions? Dec 16 03:32:59 Bossmanbeta, jbq is a google employee for example Dec 16 03:33:07 there are many google employees here Dec 16 03:33:16 however I'm not sure if they would respond to 'battery' questions Dec 16 03:33:19 hmm says no info regarding number is found Dec 16 03:33:27 i'd think if there WAS a number, it would show up Dec 16 03:33:36 Damm, wonder why not... it's clearly a software issue Dec 16 03:33:40 Oh, n/m idiot copy/paste error Dec 16 03:33:44 <--- idiot Dec 16 03:33:50 Bossmanbeta, software + hardware Dec 16 03:33:51 Is there a better place to findout about the Alarm Clock volume? Dec 16 03:33:59 depending who you ask more hardware then software Dec 16 03:34:03 hey Dec 16 03:34:06 Is the Alarm Clock Open or closed? Dec 16 03:34:07 oh hey that didn't fix it either. Dec 16 03:34:14 if i'm using OpenGL for a game Dec 16 03:34:24 Damm, I'd agree, but you know since this didnt happen in RC29 ... and did in RC30... it's pretty clear :) Dec 16 03:34:27 wasabi: have you looked at the dev bootloader which allows flashing nbh's? we probably need that to recover if something goes wrong with root and recovery partition Dec 16 03:34:32 and i have to load PNGs (or any other filetype) Dec 16 03:34:45 haven't got device yet Dec 16 03:34:49 how would i store em? as resources? Dec 16 03:34:49 haven't looked at anything Dec 16 03:35:39 oh duh Dec 16 03:35:40 but we'll see........... I did buy a double-A (AA) battery charging unit... slip a AA battery into a canister not much bigger than the battery, and has a mini-USB port on the end of it.....(meant for the G1)... to charge it when you're not near a charging location Dec 16 03:35:43 openRawResource Dec 16 03:35:44 :) Dec 16 03:36:35 Bossmanbeta, you have to keep in mind RC30 is behind in the Google Source Tree, just as the Public tree is behind. Dec 16 03:36:58 awww pending shipment. Dec 16 03:36:59 awwwwwwwwwwwww Dec 16 03:37:01 Bossmanbeta, so until the new year, there's not really much to be said. Lots of Catchup work will be done next year, and T-Mobile will push out more OTA's i'm sure to fix things. Dec 16 03:37:01 hey all, can anyone help with busybox on JFs rc30 v1.2. Dec 16 03:37:23 my verizon contract is up tomorrow. heh. Dec 16 03:37:48 Damm, I agree with that... which is why I'm willing ot be patient... what I think is happening is the battery itself is OK... and being used @ a reasonable rate... it's just the metering/reporting of it that is the problem Dec 16 03:38:24 Bossmanbeta, it'll get sorted out with a little patience. Dec 16 03:38:30 indeed. Dec 16 03:39:01 I do see an amazing amount of potential around the device..... a linux kernel with open source development... it's what we've been waiting for in a phone Dec 16 03:39:16 I almost exclusively use Linux myself, so this is an amazing achievement. Dec 16 03:41:57 what is the syntax for making busybox symlinks? Dec 16 03:42:15 ln -sf /bin/busybox /target Dec 16 03:42:25 thank you!! Dec 16 03:42:42 back Dec 16 03:43:36 i cant really appreciate why more gnu tools wern't used Dec 16 03:43:43 actually, busybox in JF's 1.2 doesn't need the symlinks Dec 16 03:43:51 snadge: gnu tools are big Dec 16 03:43:56 just run busybox sh Dec 16 03:43:56 very big Dec 16 03:44:07 all the commands are internal Dec 16 03:44:10 Fredbo: i just want to make a link for cp Dec 16 03:44:14 fair enough.. i like gnu systems, i havn't done much embedded / small space stuff Dec 16 03:44:18 that i can use anywhere Dec 16 03:44:22 if i were designing the thing from scratch.. i wouldn't have put gnu tools on there either Dec 16 03:45:09 snadge: they're quite large Dec 16 03:45:55 hi. I just created a "hello world" app, which run in the emulator (using eclipse) how do I get it to download and run on th phone? Dec 16 03:47:17 bob_ http://code.google.com/android/reference/adb.html Dec 16 03:47:58 thx Dec 16 03:49:06 thats one small step for man.. ;) Dec 16 03:49:27 Fredbo: is there anyway to not have to use the busybox shell for commands like cp? Dec 16 03:50:19 the init process and sh are in the same binary on android? Dec 16 03:50:37 is there any way to mount a loop device in init.rc? Dec 16 03:50:50 i would imagine so Dec 16 03:50:53 just use mount Dec 16 03:51:02 the syntax is different Dec 16 03:51:06 look at init.rc Dec 16 03:51:10 oh? Dec 16 03:51:21 it's probably not readable by non-root, haven't checked though admittedly :P Dec 16 03:51:31 it's in git Dec 16 03:51:37 oh, right, i forget about that Dec 16 03:52:17 hmm Dec 16 03:52:36 too many ports are using a pre-init script which requires a seperate shell, it would be nice to use init.rc Dec 16 03:52:43 mount filesystem src dest rw loop Dec 16 03:52:47 well you probably won't ro Dec 16 03:52:58 looks like it just takes options after the destination, anyway Dec 16 03:53:00 loop is an option? Dec 16 03:53:04 cool Dec 16 03:53:06 it is to normal mount Dec 16 03:53:14 dunno about the android one Dec 16 03:53:26 it sets up a file on /dev/loop* then mounts that device Dec 16 03:53:35 I know Dec 16 03:54:37 any idea how networking is brought up with qmi? how does it get the ip address in linux? Dec 16 03:55:04 loop works in android Dec 16 03:55:11 mostly :) Dec 16 03:55:16 in init.rc? Dec 16 03:55:24 init.rc and mount Dec 16 03:55:44 i would be surprised if init.rc doesn't just call the normal mount Dec 16 03:55:53 zinx: it doesn't Dec 16 03:55:58 craziness Dec 16 03:56:04 it's not installed Dec 16 03:56:11 what isn't? Dec 16 03:56:16 /bin/mount Dec 16 03:56:21 /system/bin/mount Dec 16 03:56:26 "normal mount" Dec 16 03:56:44 there isn't a /bin in android Dec 16 03:56:50 right, sorry Dec 16 03:57:05 busybox's mount supports loop better, iirc Dec 16 03:57:17 /system/bin/mount is symlink to toolbox? Dec 16 03:57:20 I think the android mount only supports mounting a single loop device Dec 16 03:57:38 like /dev/loop0 doesn't autoincrement? Dec 16 03:57:45 tmzt_, that sounds right. I may have replaced the link with a link to busybox in my v1.2 Dec 16 03:58:00 makes it hard to mount system and data images then Dec 16 03:58:09 tmzt_: right, in the standand android mount, it will only try to mount to the first loop device Dec 16 03:58:21 tzmt_: but busybox's works better Dec 16 03:58:59 tzmt_: I modified android's mount to do the same, but I don't recall if I included that or not Dec 16 03:59:11 well android init look like it's fast so I want to see how fast a system can be booted with it Dec 16 03:59:26 it also only has android libc deps, right? Dec 16 03:59:51 I'm not positive, but I think init is static Dec 16 04:00:08 because it works in recovery mode, which doesn't have any shared libraries Dec 16 04:00:26 there are static builds for recovery, even of pixelflinger Dec 16 04:00:51 JesusFreke: can you help me with busybox shortcuts? Dec 16 04:01:04 I'm pretty sure the same init is used for both recovery and normal mode Dec 16 04:01:08 not positive though Dec 16 04:01:33 yo i'm back Dec 16 04:01:43 what did i miss? I've been mucking around in mountd recently Dec 16 04:01:49 korndub: ln -s /system/bin/busybox /system/bin/cp Dec 16 04:01:51 SanMehat: can you explain MMC_BLOCK_BOUNCE ? Dec 16 04:02:01 tmzt_: yeah, why? Dec 16 04:02:19 why is it disabled and is there anything like it in 2.6.25? Dec 16 04:02:22 tmzt_: its funny you mention that.. i just disabled that recently Dec 16 04:03:39 JesusFreke: when i do that and type cp it says cp: not found with every shortcut i try to make it says not found Dec 16 04:03:59 tmzt_: look at the code :) It disables a DMA bounce buffer which is not needed for this platform Dec 16 04:04:03 is there a symlink there already? Dec 16 04:04:25 korndub: oops, sorry. ln -s /system/xbin/busybox /system/bin/cp Dec 16 04:04:34 ok gonna try that now Dec 16 04:04:34 korndub: but you have to remove the other cp link first Dec 16 04:04:42 korndub: rm /system/bin/cp Dec 16 04:05:00 thanks JF. trying now Dec 16 04:05:33 thank you that worked.. i need to remember the syntax. Dec 16 04:06:15 I'll probablyl have most of the busybox links created already for v1.3 :) Dec 16 04:06:35 the biggest thing to remember is that symlinks are symbolic, meaning that the path you used when you linked it is used when it needs to be followed. whatever ls -l /system/bin/cp shows is whats followed Dec 16 04:06:38 can't you just run busybox --install ? Dec 16 04:06:39 JesusFreke: that will be awesome..you are a great asset to us Dec 16 04:06:55 the biggest issue is if you try linking a file in the current directory to another directory and think it will work Dec 16 04:07:14 like: cd /system/xbin; ln -sf busybox /system/bin/cp Dec 16 04:07:17 SanMehat: this particular build of busybox installs to places like /usr/bin and /bin Dec 16 04:07:28 JesusFreke: ah Dec 16 04:07:44 SanMehat: building my own version as we speak :) Dec 16 04:07:50 JesusFreke: so symlink /usr/bin and /bin temporarily to /system/bin and run busybox --install :) Dec 16 04:07:53 hehe Dec 16 04:08:00 SanMehat: yeah. I know :) Dec 16 04:08:28 SanMehat: but I would rather get a build that actually installs to /system/bin Dec 16 04:08:45 busybox is gpled isnt it? Dec 16 04:08:46 pull out a hexeditor and change the path in the binary? :) Dec 16 04:09:04 meh :p Dec 16 04:09:07 snadge: it is.. i'm just offering alternatives to building it :) Dec 16 04:09:25 It's a good learning experience for me to build it anyway Dec 16 04:09:34 its all good .. i like people adding gnu stuff to android ;) Dec 16 04:09:38 getting a buildroot environment in place to build it against uclibc Dec 16 04:10:06 im assuming android uses a bsd derived libc? Dec 16 04:10:16 its our own from scratch. Dec 16 04:10:28 made to be *tiny* Dec 16 04:10:32 re-inventing the wheel? :P Dec 16 04:10:41 guess dietlibc wasn't good enough; ) Dec 16 04:10:57 some wheels need re-inventing :p Dec 16 04:11:01 snadge: the wheel wasn't small enough Dec 16 04:11:18 isnt there like a 70mb cache partition on the g1, thats not even used though? :P Dec 16 04:11:30 * JesusFreke wants a unicycle with a 10in wheel Dec 16 04:11:35 snadge: its required for OTA Dec 16 04:11:48 snadge: carrier requirement. Dec 16 04:12:10 JesusFreke: hahaha Dec 16 04:12:11 yeah, have to have some place to put those 50mb OTA downloads. Dec 16 04:12:24 snadge: and we're not just talking about flash space.. we're talking about memory footprint too Dec 16 04:12:42 thats right.. you wouldn't want something like not having an sdcard plugged in, preventing t-mobile from closing "security issues" Dec 16 04:12:55 hehe Dec 16 04:13:11 or system updates. Dec 16 04:13:13 or whatever. Dec 16 04:13:18 is the libc designed to do more in the kernel syscalls instead of trying to do everything it can in userspace like glibc? Dec 16 04:13:35 tmzt_: yes.. its 'wafer' thin Dec 16 04:13:39 go look at the code Dec 16 04:13:49 bionic/libc Dec 16 04:14:00 I will Dec 16 04:14:07 * JesusFreke wonders if you could build busybox against it Dec 16 04:14:17 yes Dec 16 04:14:25 <_avatar> hey all. i asked this question a couple hours ago, no one answered and i'm still stumped. i see some new faces so i'll ask again (sorry, i'm not trying to spam the channel with the same question constantly)... Dec 16 04:14:30 <_avatar> so, my client has socket connection to my server, and it blocks on a read() in a background thread. i've discovered that the connection will close after 5 minutes if no data is ever read from the socket. i assume this is expected, but is there a way around it? i'd like to have an option to keep a persistent connection to my server Dec 16 04:14:30 Disconnect: oh cool :) Dec 16 04:14:40 or add more to toolbox since the license would be compatible? Dec 16 04:15:01 tmzt_: license isn't compatible. they want bsd. busybox is staunchly gpl. Dec 16 04:15:13 apache Dec 16 04:15:16 oh Dec 16 04:15:26 I mean, aren't toolbox and bionic both apache? Dec 16 04:15:37 tmzt_: ..apache is a bsd-style license. Dec 16 04:15:46 you can't relicense gpl code as apache. Dec 16 04:16:44 (however.... wireless tools, dhcpd, pppd, basic startup env.. i suspect - although i haven't done the porting yet - that it'd be smaller, or at least the same, as toolkit. with the bonus of upstream maintenance and such.) Dec 16 04:18:03 * Disconnect doesn't see a reason to ship /bin/sh at all, realistically. and without that busybox can be SUPER small. Dec 16 04:18:20 the interesting part of pppd could be implemented in the kernel, though you may not need it with rmnet anyway Dec 16 04:18:59 tmzt_: for DUN (and dund) you need something pppd-ish that talks to stdio.. Dec 16 04:19:05 if you use wpa_supplicant for wireless through dbus interface, you really aren't going to get away from it for wpa I guess Dec 16 04:19:17 ugh dbus Dec 16 04:19:19 there is pand (bluez is gpl anyway) Dec 16 04:19:23 and part of what you need for decent bt support is PAN and DUN Dec 16 04:19:30 yah its already built.. Dec 16 04:19:51 what do you need dund for? Dec 16 04:19:53 and submitted too http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/quick-update-pan-dhcp-accomplished Dec 16 04:20:31 pand gives you tethering support for modern os's (except some linux dists). dund gives you tethering for EVERYTHING. Dec 16 04:20:40 it doesn't make any sense to implement just one. Dec 16 04:20:56 (well.. right now it makes no sense to implement either one, since the bt chip is running at 115k) Dec 16 04:21:15 true, the problem there is on the msm side? Dec 16 04:21:25 this is a hardware issue? Dec 16 04:21:32 yah teh goog is holding out on a fast driver that eats battery :( Dec 16 04:21:37 i want a copy for testing but.. so far no go. Dec 16 04:21:38 I mean driver on the msm side Dec 16 04:21:44 hey now Dec 16 04:22:13 SanMehat: ..want to send a tarball over the wall so i can fix up those patches? :) Dec 16 04:22:20 what about the other stuff you can do with bluetooth.. like browse peoples files, share ringtones, and remote control etc Dec 16 04:22:26 hahaha Dec 16 04:22:26 have you even got 2.6.27 working Disconnect or are you going to backport it? Dec 16 04:23:02 most of those are rfcomm, except the remote control which is hidd Dec 16 04:23:08 last i heard 2.6.27 works if you pull a couple of patches out. Dec 16 04:23:24 rfcomm plus daemons yah. but really thats all dund is too.. Dec 16 04:23:52 true, but like you said you need pppd to do anything Dec 16 04:25:14 pppd is built as part of the source build Dec 16 04:25:41 ok, but I thought we were discussing the minimal rootfs needed or something like that Dec 16 04:25:41 * Disconnect is just about begging teh goog for the battery-destroying unstable patches so he can implement a proper bt-services subsystem. and they laugh at me :( Dec 16 04:26:28 :( Dec 16 04:26:34 busybox can provide most of the support binaries at minimal incremental size increase. (hmm. since yaffs2 isn't compressed... i wonder...) Dec 16 04:26:38 you should contact the bt developers on the lists Dec 16 04:26:44 So is there anyway for me to implement a program that does remote-control of a PC over bluetooth? (Given I have the proper PC-side software) Dec 16 04:27:16 with the standard hid protocol? Dec 16 04:27:25 if you're so close to a PC as bluetooth would require, why would u need remote control? Dec 16 04:27:45 Bossmanbeta: presentations Dec 16 04:28:27 Yeah, what Disconnect said Dec 16 04:28:27 ah... though bluetooth is line of sight... could see issues with that at a long meeting table ... but I see the idea. Dec 16 04:28:28 so you can make someones computer bring up porn.. whilst they're trying to do a presentation :p Dec 16 04:28:41 snadge: Heh. Not quite. :) Dec 16 04:28:41 ..bt is radio. no line of sight needed. Dec 16 04:28:42 rofl snadge Dec 16 04:28:45 IRDA is line of sight. Dec 16 04:28:59 tmzt_: I guess, I don't know details of bluetooth Dec 16 04:29:01 the real solution is make the G1's screen bright enough so as to not need the projector/PC combo :) Dec 16 04:29:19 ..and an oven mitt to hold it during the presentation :) Dec 16 04:29:38 "do not stare directly into the screen, eye damage will result" Dec 16 04:29:47 most bt implementations are weak enough radio it may as well be line of sight Dec 16 04:29:59 i can see pretty far Dec 16 04:30:09 i dont think its line of sight Dec 16 04:30:33 from the top of the empire state building, its possible to see albequerque Dec 16 04:30:44 :P Dec 16 04:30:45 ..or russia from her house.. Dec 16 04:30:54 snadge: and if i had a laser, i could send bits there :P Dec 16 04:31:01 snadge: but *not* via bluetooth Dec 16 04:32:30 beer .. Dec 16 04:32:35 you buying? Dec 16 04:32:59 Hell yea ... or you can help yourself to my Jagermeister Tap Machine Dec 16 04:33:08 ugh Dec 16 04:33:11 lol Dec 16 04:33:11 i can't take Jager anymore Dec 16 04:33:30 SanMehat: greetings Dec 16 04:33:34 everybody either loves it or has a horror story ;) Dec 16 04:33:39 ugh Dec 16 04:33:45 just thinking about it makes me gag Dec 16 04:33:45 ugh Dec 16 04:33:48 hahaha Dec 16 04:33:55 same with me and Vanilla Vodka ;) Dec 16 04:34:07 <_avatar> ugh. 99 apples for me. Dec 16 04:34:12 hehe Dec 16 04:34:15 hahaha Dec 16 04:34:17 u know, a roll-up keyboard like this (http://veviem.notlong.com) and a solid power supply and I could throw away my PC in favor of my G1... and stay mobile. Dec 16 04:34:43 Bossmanbeta: they could film a documentary about you Dec 16 04:34:55 hey dan Dec 16 04:34:58 SanMehat, morrildl: hey Dec 16 04:35:00 what's up San Dec 16 04:35:01 SanMehat, you're not the first to tell me that Dec 16 04:35:04 ttuttle: yo Dec 16 04:35:14 SanMehat: how's it going? Dec 16 04:35:26 ha ssh'd into a screen session on my machine via my g1. Dec 16 04:35:26 SanMehat: didja get my email? Dec 16 04:35:28 ttuttle: word Dec 16 04:35:34 ttuttle: good. i think i know how i'm going to fix fsck_msdos Dec 16 04:35:38 *yawn* .. okay well I partied Thurs-Sun .. I need more sleep Dec 16 04:35:38 ttuttle: yeah Dec 16 04:35:41 SanMehat: cool Dec 16 04:35:45 ack. it's turning into the google reunion channel :p Dec 16 04:35:48 SanMehat: oh, how? Dec 16 04:35:53 morrildl: heh Dec 16 04:35:58 gnight all Dec 16 04:36:01 JesusFreke: reunion? were we ever apart? Dec 16 04:36:06 DJTachyon: you just got here? Dec 16 04:36:07 haha Dec 16 04:36:11 DJTachyon: night Dec 16 04:36:25 lol Dec 16 04:36:25 although actually I haven't seen San in person lately Dec 16 04:36:33 SanMehat: you should call more :P Dec 16 04:36:35 yeah its been awhile Dec 16 04:36:47 morrildl: don't you both work in mtv? Dec 16 04:36:47 well you never come out of your little fortress of solitude Dec 16 04:36:54 ha, I wish Dec 16 04:36:58 what class is the G1 bluetooth, anyway? Dec 16 04:37:00 There's like 6 other people in there with me Dec 16 04:37:07 zinx: sophomore Dec 16 04:37:09 nahh well i went to limewire's holiday party on thurs, drove 5 hours upstate friday, stayed out til 3AM, then partied noon saturday to 8AM sunday, then drove home 5 hours, then went to work this morning Dec 16 04:37:15 and I still havent gone to be tonight Dec 16 04:37:18 morrildl: unfamiliar with that one :P Dec 16 04:37:24 zinx: what do you mean by class? :) Dec 16 04:37:29 morrildl: 1 2 or 3. Dec 16 04:37:44 morrildl: not sure what else i could mean in the context of bluetooth Dec 16 04:38:08 morrildl: you know.. biology.. chemistry.... Dec 16 04:38:14 so .. yeah .. sleepytime Dec 16 04:38:20 gnight ;) Dec 16 04:38:22 peas Dec 16 04:38:28 morrildl: 100m, 10m, or 1m max range :P Dec 16 04:39:17 zinx: ahhh, I think I missed the bluetooth part of the context :) Dec 16 04:39:21 oh wait Dec 16 04:39:24 * morrildl sighs Dec 16 04:39:29 It was a long day, okay? Dec 16 04:39:40 dude, tell me about it. Dec 16 04:40:01 zinx: anyway -- dunno. If no one else does I can try to find out tomorrow -- ping me again Dec 16 04:40:29 well its clearly more than 1 Dec 16 04:40:34 100m seems far Dec 16 04:40:44 Indeed Dec 16 04:40:51 hellow aim? Dec 16 04:40:54 1's 100mW, kinda power hungry but still within possbility Dec 16 04:40:59 people seem to like it Dec 16 04:41:01 SanMehat: yes, but what else floats? Dec 16 04:41:14 JesusFreke: a Duck Dec 16 04:41:18 2/3 are 2.5mW and 1mW respectively Dec 16 04:41:24 oh, not meters Dec 16 04:41:25 considerably less ;) Dec 16 04:41:26 :) Dec 16 04:41:30 no, meters Dec 16 04:41:43 100m (100mW), 10m (2.5mW), 1m (1mW) Dec 16 04:41:51 well yeah 100mW would be pretty good power actually Dec 16 04:42:00 My guess is it doesn't draw that much Dec 16 04:42:02 i'm pretty sure the bluetooth chip takes more than that Dec 16 04:42:10 oh no thats wifi Dec 16 04:42:13 SanMehat: transmission power Dec 16 04:42:31 so yeah it's gonna take more ;) Dec 16 04:42:39 Let's throw the G1 in a river and see if it floats Dec 16 04:42:39 zinx: what are you trying to do? use it as a terminal for a BT spy cam? ;) Dec 16 04:42:49 nothing, i was just curious Dec 16 04:42:52 * SanMehat can't remember the bt g1 power numbers Dec 16 04:43:03 upon reflection that would be pretty coo Dec 16 04:43:05 cool even Dec 16 04:43:06 <_avatar> hey morrildl ;) Dec 16 04:43:17 morrildl: I'm going to attach a SATA disk to my G1 Dec 16 04:43:19 _avatar my man, what's up Dec 16 04:43:40 SanMehat: that's okay, it was Winchester/MFM/RLL that we dropped support for Dec 16 04:43:56 morrildl: damnit. Dec 16 04:44:05 all you have to do is fit the SATA controller in the phone... Dec 16 04:44:14 just for that i'm going to re-enable 'CONFIG_FLOPPY' Dec 16 04:44:17 microsdio Dec 16 04:44:20 <_avatar> morrildl: not a lot. slowly pressing forward with my android autom8 stuff as time permits. how have you been? Dec 16 04:44:39 I think next SDK, we will regret to inform developers that Android apps are not compatible with the OS/2 Presentation Manager Dec 16 04:44:52 Oh no! Dec 16 04:45:03 will we be winsock compliant? Dec 16 04:45:12 SanMehat: jury's still out. Dec 16 04:45:16 that's a good one though Dec 16 04:45:37 need Microsoft VSS (Volume Shadow Copy) for REAL backup programs Dec 16 04:45:44 _avatar: keeping busy. I need to get in on that autom8 action Dec 16 04:46:18 (that has got to be the most insane API i've ever seen, and it's for nothing more than copying a file that's open for the most part :x ) Dec 16 04:46:30 zinx: I dunno, JNDI is pretty insane Dec 16 04:46:51 <_avatar> let me know when you get your gear, i'll point you towards my code repository ;) Dec 16 04:46:57 also the worst API I ever saw was the java API for business objects Dec 16 04:47:04 android's jini compatible? Dec 16 04:47:11 morrildl: nowhere near as bad as the volume shadow copy api, i assure you :) Dec 16 04:47:23 It was quite obviously a straight transliteration of a VisualBasic "API" Dec 16 04:48:03 _avatar: cool :) Dec 16 04:48:07 VSS API's a direct interface to a very low level, very backwards subsystem Dec 16 04:48:24 _avatar: I put it on my xmas list but so far it's looking grim for actually getting it Dec 16 04:48:30 zinx: now i'm curious.. i have the DDK.. would it be in there? Dec 16 04:48:53 SanMehat: should be Dec 16 04:49:14 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb968832(VS.85).aspx Dec 16 04:49:41 <_avatar> morrildl: doh Dec 16 04:50:14 thats retarded Dec 16 04:50:23 i must note that i'm not a windows developer, so not really used to dealing with APIs that are that crazy ;) Dec 16 04:50:45 _avatar: I asked for the SimpleHome EZSrve Dec 16 04:50:56 _avatar: because it has an XML web API Dec 16 04:51:46 morrildl: Android - now lactose free! Dec 16 04:52:19 will there be an API for the Android to just mess with the LED color directly? like, more-or-less direct access to /sys/class/leds/{red,green,blue} Dec 16 04:52:35 SanMehat: does that mean I have to plug in my G1 now, instead of pouring milk inside? Dec 16 04:52:36 s/ the// Dec 16 04:52:42 2 Dec 16 04:52:42 JesusFreke: haha Dec 16 04:52:47 <_avatar> morrildl: i hadn't heard of that one, sounds really nice; but yeah, a bit pricey. Dec 16 04:52:57 zinx: i'm not sure Dec 16 04:53:05 I *liked* that feature :p Dec 16 04:53:09 zinx: I don't think we've thought about it. Dec 16 04:53:34 I think the LED can be controlled through notifications. Dec 16 04:53:37 there are certainly more important things Dec 16 04:53:38 JesusFreke: well just make sure yuo don't get OTAed up from RC29 and you'll be all right ;) Dec 16 04:53:41 jbq: not the same way, though Dec 16 04:53:54 jbq: and that also requires a notification to happen ;) Dec 16 04:53:58 morrildl: gotcha :D Dec 16 04:54:06 zinx: well, in a way that's more likely to be portable and to play well when multiple applications need to use it at the same time. Dec 16 04:54:14 would be a little silly to try showing a color pattern on the LEDs with 100 notifications per second ;) Dec 16 04:54:24 jbq: uh, I don't see how multiple apps COULD Dec 16 04:54:31 jbq: this is not a multiple application thing Dec 16 04:54:41 morrildl: that's the point :) Dec 16 04:54:41 if one app sets it to red and the other blue, what do you do? show purple? :) Dec 16 04:54:52 jbq: this is for special-purpose apps that need exclusive control over the LED while they're up and want it Dec 16 04:55:17 morrildl: i'd totally write an app that faded the leds in different colors, but you can't write to that led fast enough Dec 16 04:55:19 RyeBrye would probably use it to read out the firmware Dec 16 04:55:44 SanMehat: you can't? i thought someone in here with a rooted one was saying they could :x Dec 16 04:55:50 zinx: its over I2C Dec 16 04:56:02 morrildl - you know I would :) Dec 16 04:56:06 SanMehat: should still be several times per second Dec 16 04:56:16 RyeBrye: yes I do, I wasn't really joking :) Dec 16 04:56:20 yes, but not fast enough to make a really nice fade :) Dec 16 04:56:34 SanMehat: psh, you could have a cool enough fade :) Dec 16 04:56:54 you'd have a c64 fade Dec 16 04:56:56 what IS the hysteresis time for a typical LED? Dec 16 04:56:59 i want an amiga fade Dec 16 04:57:05 SanMehat: or some silly candle flickering style fade Dec 16 04:57:09 You can blink them several hundred times a second - easily Dec 16 04:57:20 anyone use five? Dec 16 04:57:23 yeah, LEDs can go really fast Dec 16 04:57:28 i2c isn't terribly high bandwidth, though Dec 16 04:57:56 well.. i once hooked the blue led to the MMC event and it slowed SD performance to a crawl Dec 16 04:58:01 is there a controller like on raph? Dec 16 04:58:04 I blinked my camera firmware out at 4800bps with it's LED Dec 16 04:58:05 ~/five-read-only/five-server$ ./autogen.sh Dec 16 04:58:05 ./autogen.sh: 3: autoreconf: not found Dec 16 04:58:07 SanMehat: yeah but that was i2c Dec 16 04:58:08 SanMehat: hehe, don't doubt it Dec 16 04:58:17 zinx: :) Dec 16 04:58:25 it looked pretty cool though.. Dec 16 04:58:31 I used to blink LEDs pretty fast back in my FPGA days. Got some nice duty cycles going Dec 16 04:58:40 you're a duty cycle. Dec 16 04:58:46 but those were wired right to the part Dec 16 04:59:01 (which always killed me. waste of bandwidth) Dec 16 04:59:08 Are there any available GPIO on the board? Dec 16 04:59:20 * RyeBrye gets his soldering iron out... must... have... faster... blinking... Dec 16 04:59:36 SanMehat: yes I am. My duty cycle is 5 on, 2 off. Dec 16 04:59:36 RyeBrye: hmm.. depends... you could force the SD card to 1 bit mode, then use the other 3 data lines as GPIOs Dec 16 04:59:41 SanMehat: I guess I'm 7 bit Dec 16 05:00:04 SanMehat: Yeah, but that would kill SDHC wouldn't it? Dec 16 05:00:15 RyeBrye: i've been thinking about maybe using those hooked up to a logic analyzer to capture some scheduler stats Dec 16 05:00:25 RyeBrye: it would kill your performance for sure :) Dec 16 05:00:37 but it would still work Dec 16 05:00:44 SanMehat: yeah, and they'd probably be easy to get to Dec 16 05:01:03 There aren't any traces just kind of sitting waiting to be tapped though? Dec 16 05:01:26 well i found it quite hard Dec 16 05:01:43 no there aren't any testpoints there Dec 16 05:01:49 Oh Dec 16 05:01:58 * RyeBrye is particularly fond of how WRT54GL's were able to get MMC card support via a bunch of random gpio Dec 16 05:02:08 but... thats kinda the *easiest* to get to.. Dec 16 05:02:17 svn checkout http://five.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ five-read-only Dec 16 05:02:19 shit Dec 16 05:02:20 I watched a really cool video on surface mount soldering today, and I really want to go nuts now :) Dec 16 05:02:25 ~/five-read-only/five-server$ ./autogen.sh Dec 16 05:02:25 ./autogen.sh: 3: autoreconf: not found Dec 16 05:02:29 any idears? Dec 16 05:02:37 you need autoreconf Dec 16 05:02:41 :) Dec 16 05:03:02 where is it Dec 16 05:03:09 behind you Dec 16 05:03:09 or where should it be, and where do i get it Dec 16 05:03:22 i'm not sure, ask jasta :) Dec 16 05:03:32 depends on your distro Dec 16 05:03:37 if you run debian it's from apt Dec 16 05:03:39 ubuntu 8.10 Dec 16 05:04:19 then apt-get autoconf autoreconf libtool aclocal Dec 16 05:04:22 and autoheader Dec 16 05:04:27 err apt-get install autoconf ... Dec 16 05:05:11 btw, anyone else here have an app on the Market? Dec 16 05:05:35 +1 Dec 16 05:05:56 k t hanks Dec 16 05:05:58 Did you get spammed at your support email address today? Dec 16 05:06:11 morrildl: not just today :), just about everyday :) Dec 16 05:06:38 michaelnovakjr: I am not treating mails from users as spam, however temptnig that may be ;) Dec 16 05:06:52 morrildl: me either Dec 16 05:06:54 morrildl: Did you see my question from earlier? Dec 16 05:07:07 bgupta_: no Dec 16 05:07:08 i get emails asking if a file manager can ssh into a g1 Dec 16 05:07:17 file manager on the g1 can ssh into the g1 Dec 16 05:07:19 michaelnovakjr: that's a good one Dec 16 05:07:19 no lie Dec 16 05:07:26 morrildl: You were having issues compiling on Mac, no? Dec 16 05:07:32 me? no Dec 16 05:07:41 mmm. thinking of someone else Dec 16 05:07:47 I've been building on the Mac for like a year now Dec 16 05:07:48 nvm Dec 16 05:08:00 bgupta_: np Dec 16 05:08:04 Oh.. lol.. Dec 16 05:08:13 hehehe Dec 16 05:09:12 hey SanMehat is anyone working on reviving the sooner build? Dec 16 05:09:30 Someone was having the same problem I was, and I was curious if they had figured it out.. javac was crashing.. I got side tracked working on the FAQ: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ Figuring I want to get back to trying to build the source again now that the FAQ is in pretty good shape. Dec 16 05:09:54 bgupta_: Ahh. Which javac are you using? Dec 16 05:10:32 I've seen Apple's weird Java config get in inconsistent states Dec 16 05:10:44 Oh ^&*(& it seg faults no matter what. seems it is hosed. Dec 16 05:10:47 If you switched your default JDK over to 1.6, I've had problems building that way Dec 16 05:10:56 SIGSEGV?! Dec 16 05:10:58 wow Dec 16 05:10:59 Yeah, I had to switch my java config back to 1.5 Dec 16 05:11:19 any one got the beta for teh book "Hello Android" ? Dec 16 05:11:19 Ah ok.... now there is a question for the FAQ. Dec 16 05:11:24 that's knid of unacceptable Dec 16 05:11:27 you just change the symlinks I take it? Dec 16 05:11:46 bgupta_: yeah although be very very careful doing that Dec 16 05:11:58 I hosed mine and had to look at a functioning mac to reconstruct them Dec 16 05:12:17 gonna poke around and list what I am doing before I do it.. Dec 16 05:12:28 question: Is there another channel for the user-side of things on the Android OS, including technical questions. Not being a programmer (but a sysadmin) I have some user interface questions, but not sure this is the right forum. Dec 16 05:12:35 I wonder how long it would take to build Android on my Eee PC here Dec 16 05:12:56 morrildl: there is an x86 port from what I hear - but it's secret and only Google employees would know about it Dec 16 05:12:57 Rossmanbeta: This is an ok channel for that... check out the FAQ first though: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ Dec 16 05:12:59 Bossmanbeta: not that we maintain Dec 16 05:13:10 but yeah, bgupta_++ Dec 16 05:13:42 RyeBrye: eh, I don't think it's that secret Dec 16 05:13:55 But I didn't mean build *for* I meant build *on* Dec 16 05:14:04 Oh Dec 16 05:14:06 :) Dec 16 05:14:09 :) Dec 16 05:14:22 I used to use linux kernel compiles as a processor speed test, back in the day Dec 16 05:14:38 oh and also is this a place to get help on using the OS? and not developing for it? if not where do i go? Dec 16 05:14:46 "WOW, you got one of the new Cyrix processors?! How long does a kernel build take??" Dec 16 05:15:06 morrildl: I get annoyed if my desktop kernel takes more than 20 minutes now :) Dec 16 05:15:14 RyeBrye: word Dec 16 05:15:22 bgupta, there's n o mention in that FAQ for programmer/user delineation in questioning... I gather you offered it to see if it might answer one of my questions Dec 16 05:15:35 performance: well we aren't trained tech support, but we are happy to answer questions Dec 16 05:16:06 morrildl: how do you search within a page on the android browser? [ i have the G1] Dec 16 05:16:20 huh, that's a good question Dec 16 05:16:36 although I recently saw coretemp actually started reproting temps for my proc... I need to seriously adjust my OC setup... it idles around 45 C but I hit 90 C when it's doing a make -j8 on a big job... :/ Dec 16 05:16:45 90 c = not so good :) Dec 16 05:16:48 performance: that's not supported on the G1. Dec 16 05:17:03 I mean, in the current version of Android. Dec 16 05:17:06 Isn't search within a page comingeventually? Dec 16 05:17:13 Yeah, I heard that it is coming soon Dec 16 05:17:16 just wasn't ready yet Dec 16 05:17:22 morrildl: /usr/bin/javac -> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/javac following that shows that ../Current -> A (Which seems weird.) Went ahead and pastebined the contents of "Current" here. http://pastebin.com/medd91f1 Gonna go look at another mac as well.. Dec 16 05:17:29 hope they put it in there some day Dec 16 05:17:34 bgupta: javac --version Dec 16 05:17:37 RyeBrye: I think that it might be somewhat implemented in the current bleeding edge. Dec 16 05:18:02 bgupta: err.. i mean javac -version Dec 16 05:18:15 besides the battery issues (sigh)... the main user question I have is at the moment is speed dialing... Tmobile seems to have preset the (1) to auto dial voicemail...which is nice, but I need to use the other keys also... any way to do that? None of the apps I have seen can do it, and I have to use AnyCut to make shortcuts on the desktop which eats desktop space.. Dec 16 05:18:18 RyeBrye: unless you want to boil water Dec 16 05:18:24 (someone really needs to standardize that... I always guess wrong for apps that want --version and once that want -version) :) Dec 16 05:18:26 RyeBrye: and then it's not quite good enough Dec 16 05:18:41 can any one help me set up an example android project ? i got the source from here.. http://www.pragprog.com/titles/eband/source_code Dec 16 05:18:50 morrildl: depends on the altitude :) I bet it would be ok on everest Dec 16 05:18:56 but then again, I doubt I'd hit 90c on everest Dec 16 05:19:03 bgupta_: sadly I don't have my mac here to check against Dec 16 05:19:25 Bad joojoo: "$ javac --version Dec 16 05:19:25 Segmentation fault Dec 16 05:19:43 bgupta: yeah, sorrty.. I was wrong Dec 16 05:19:45 try with one dash Dec 16 05:19:51 i installed eclipse and teh ADT plugin and got a couple of simple examples to work Dec 16 05:19:55 Looking at another 10.5.5 macbook, and it's got the same link let me try runnign it.. Dec 16 05:19:56 if it's segfaulting on version, you have definitely screwed the pooch somehow Dec 16 05:20:00 but not this :( Dec 16 05:20:24 bgupta: javac -version is what you want Dec 16 05:20:44 The other question is easy -- profiles for sounds... since I used to have a blackberry, I enjoyed having sound profiles.. so when I would go to sleep, I'd have a custom profile for sleep which put all alerts on silent and my phone ring volume lower... and I had other profiles... it seems I have to set these notifications/ring per application, and I can';t have mode becuase I need to keep the phone ringing in case of emergency, b Dec 16 05:20:44 ut don't need alerts @ nite... No apps I've seen can do this either. Dec 16 05:21:20 damn.. segfaulting on both Macs... gonna see if there is some sort of Java update I can install Dec 16 05:21:25 RyeBrye: it still shouldn't segfault Dec 16 05:21:37 (I suspect it is the comboupdate) Dec 16 05:21:38 <_avatar> say, speaking of support questions, does anyone else have a problem where the SMS sound stops being played until the phone is rebooted? Dec 16 05:21:45 jbq: didn't we have speed dialing on longpress at one point? Dec 16 05:21:55 performance: I would help you... if I ever used eclipse Dec 16 05:22:05 morrildl: I don't remember. Dec 16 05:22:28 :D but if it works with eclipse it should work with the command line too right? Dec 16 05:22:28 Bossmanbeta: did you look at the Locale app? Dec 16 05:22:38 hmm Dec 16 05:22:41 let me check now Dec 16 05:22:43 performance: not necessarily, Eclipse doesn't use javac Dec 16 05:23:06 _avatar: ;-) Dec 16 05:23:16 _avatar: oops didn't mean that :) Dec 16 05:23:22 _avatar: whcih build do you have? Dec 16 05:23:32 locale (by the description) may very well work for the late-nite-sleep mode.... indeed :) let me DL that Dec 16 05:23:39 1000 salutations :) Dec 16 05:23:48 <_avatar> morrildl: RC30, 116143 Dec 16 05:24:03 _avatar: queer. Is that a retail G1? Dec 16 05:24:14 morrildl: that's the dumb version Dec 16 05:24:20 <_avatar> morrildl: yeah, it's a retail G1 Dec 16 05:24:27 Bossmanbeta: np :) Dec 16 05:24:31 <_avatar> my girlfriend also has a G1 with the same build. she has the same problem sometimes as well Dec 16 05:24:55 _avatar: do you have your notification ringtone set to something on the SD card? Dec 16 05:25:18 <_avatar> morrildl: that was the first thing i checked -- nope. just the standard "Look at Me" sound (or whatever it's called) Dec 16 05:25:56 _avatar: Hmmm. Do you get a lot of SMSes? Dec 16 05:27:05 _avatar: I'm sure you know what I am going to say next: "see if you can get an 'adb bugreport' Dec 16 05:27:09 :) Dec 16 05:27:26 mmm don't know how I didn't notice that.. seems java is totally hosed... Downloading a fresh copy from Apple's dev site. Dec 16 05:27:31 <_avatar> morrildl: not particularly, and I haven't noticed any sort of pattern as to when they stop working. they just don't work sometimes :) Dec 16 05:27:35 sadly, the shift-menu hook is disabled on the retail builds, IIRC Dec 16 05:27:54 my g1 likes to just drop its data connection all the time Dec 16 05:28:10 the phone works great as a phone.. the data part is pretty glitchy :P Dec 16 05:28:12 <_avatar> morrildl: yeah, the last time it happened i tried the shift-menu to generate a bugreport, then rebooted. found out later that didn't work. :) Dec 16 05:28:18 <_avatar> i'll be sure to grab an adb bugreport next time i notice it Dec 16 05:28:32 _avatar: fabulous, just fling it over to me Dec 16 05:28:44 Damn "java is seg faulting too. Dec 16 05:28:56 bgupta_: you have a very sick Mac Dec 16 05:28:57 <_avatar> morrildl: ooh, while you're here, i have another question you may be able to answer. i asked earlier a couple times, but no one responded. maybe you know... Dec 16 05:29:01 k Dec 16 05:29:12 <_avatar> so, my client has socket connection to my server, and it blocks on a read() in a background thread. i've discovered that the connection will close after 5 minutes if no data is ever read from the socket. i assume this is expected, but is there a way around it? i'd like to have an option to keep a persistent connection to my server Dec 16 05:29:36 _avatar: sounds like a carrier RST timeout Dec 16 05:29:39 <_avatar> (just experimenting with some autom8 service stuff, so i can generate notifications immediately and reliably if certain things happen, e.g. a motion sensor is triggered) Dec 16 05:29:48 <_avatar> ah Dec 16 05:29:49 might also just be your server Dec 16 05:29:50 morrildl: Apparently. Dec 16 05:30:47 <_avatar> morrildl: i'm pretty sure it's not my server, but I'll check it again to make sure. Dec 16 05:31:49 on mac what is the truss/strace equiv? Dec 16 05:32:22 <_avatar> if it turns out to be a carrier timeout, maybe I could work around the issue by doing some sort of small message between the client and server every so often. seems hackish though :) Dec 16 05:33:16 _avatar: yeah. also I think there is a socket keepalive option you can turn on Dec 16 05:33:27 that might or might not have any useful effect Dec 16 05:33:43 <_avatar> morrildl: yeah, tried that already. no luck Dec 16 05:33:59 SanMehat: we didn't h@x0r the TCP stack to do that did we? i.e. timeout after 300 seconds? Dec 16 05:34:27 I'd be highly surprised if we did Dec 16 05:35:24 _avatar: I'll ask the guys who do the GTalk server stuff what they do Dec 16 05:35:47 <_avatar> morrildl: that'd be awesome, thanks :) Dec 16 05:36:04 that connection is open but idle much of the time. they do have pretty extensive reconnect logic though, to handle the device switch from 2g to 3g to and losing service and so on Dec 16 05:36:36 hey im getting errors when attempting to run five Dec 16 05:36:37 http://pastebin.com/m3a7ff035 Dec 16 05:36:39 any ideas? Dec 16 05:36:49 bgupta_: I though strace worked on mac Dec 16 05:36:59 I have a vague though possibly fake memory of using it Dec 16 05:37:15 mmm.. well not in my path anyway... Dec 16 05:37:22 google is my firend Dec 16 05:37:41 bgupta_: do you have a LD_PRELOAD or LD_LIBRARY_PATH set? Dec 16 05:38:05 ah ktrace on tiger.. dtrace on leopard.. of course. Dec 16 05:38:15 (those might be a glibc thing though) Dec 16 05:38:57 not set... :( Dec 16 05:39:04 that would explain the behaviour Dec 16 05:39:18 FYI the command I really wanted is called dtruss btw Dec 16 05:39:39 bgupta_: of course, OBVIOUSLY Dec 16 05:39:43 "dtruss" is a way to call dtrace and make it behave like truss Dec 16 05:42:09 anyone know jasta's email address? Dec 16 05:42:37 d0netsFN: you should be able to get it from the google code project Dec 16 05:42:40 you will have to solve a captcha tho Dec 16 05:43:40 i dont see his email on there Dec 16 05:43:45 infernix: good work on nandroid full system backup / restore :) Dec 16 05:43:45 nor a place to contact him Dec 16 05:44:01 there's a way man :) Dec 16 05:44:28 I was thinking it was a library issue.. Just didn't quite hit me that LD_LIBRARY_PATH would be unset.. Dec 16 05:44:42 dtruss would have led me straight to the culprit though Dec 16 05:47:45 someone suggested to me that I create an IRC bot here to easily ban people, and name it bandroid Dec 16 05:47:55 :) Dec 16 05:47:58 let's do it Dec 16 05:48:06 i think it should just randomly ban people Dec 16 05:48:10 i didn't recommend that, but sure Dec 16 05:48:13 I would have to ban myself though for violating the channel bot policy Dec 16 05:48:18 haha Dec 16 05:48:22 true Dec 16 05:49:20 i just created an issue Dec 16 05:49:43 morrildl, that was close to the fix for the ringing profiles, but not quite... it seems the only settnig that affects sms/email notifcation sounds is the general RING setting "Locale" has, oddly enough the "notifications" setting in there does not seem to affect sms/email alerts... when I set that the sms/email *and* phone all lower in volume... I was looking for a surgical change, to leave phone ringer volume alone, and just kill sms/em Dec 16 05:49:43 ail alerts overnight when sleeping Dec 16 05:49:49 anyone know t-mobile's stuck pixel policy? for sub-pixels that are stuck on all the time Dec 16 05:49:59 but that's pretty close... I will probably end up using it until something more granular comes along Dec 16 05:51:39 Hi, i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask: but are there any plans to allow android apps and settings to be backed up to flash? (If there isn't one already) Dec 16 05:51:49 zinx: they should be able to do a warranty exchange for you Dec 16 05:52:11 From what i've read you can't back those up Dec 16 05:52:24 kcoury_: hmmm Dec 16 05:55:07 Looks like Leopard did away with LD_LIBRARY_PATH??? Is this possible? Can someone who is running Leopard please run "echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH"? Dec 16 05:56:52 bgupta_: don't think it's always set on linux either Dec 16 05:57:01 mmm ok... Dec 16 05:57:08 must be something else.. Dec 16 05:57:23 it's an override, kinda meant for exceptional cases rather than the normal case Dec 16 05:57:54 usually it just uses whatever's in /etc/ld.so.conf Dec 16 05:58:26 (Linux, that is) Dec 16 06:00:45 Seems an interesting lead: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/847/1046847/leopard-run-java Dec 16 06:01:51 bgupta_: is your actual system up to date? Dec 16 06:02:20 Theoretically. Dec 16 06:02:24 heh Dec 16 06:02:39 Oh damn.. 10.5.6 was just released. Dec 16 06:03:05 apparently yesterday Dec 16 06:06:21 i get this after running five ** Message: Got http://ws.audioscrobbler.com/2.0/?api_key=3edc5156fb5dc2d185c1f00ba0282ea5&method=album.getinfo&artist=Deltron%203030&album=Both%20Sides%20of%20the%20Brain HTTP 200, 540 bytes! Dec 16 06:06:21 ** Message: Got http://ws.audioscrobbler.com/1.0/artist/Deltron/similar.xml HTTP 200, 35515 bytes! Dec 16 06:06:21 five: meta.c:1577: process_work_queue_mbid: Assertion `rc == 101' failed. Dec 16 06:06:21 Aborted Dec 16 06:06:26 Otherwise relatively up to date.. this is buggoing me, it's prolly something simple and obvious. Dec 16 06:06:30 morrildl: quick question: what format are the xml files in, in the various system apks? (framework-res.apk for example) Dec 16 06:06:34 when i delete that artists folder it will continue and keep going Dec 16 06:06:37 they're in some binary format Dec 16 06:06:59 but it happens with many of my artists Dec 16 06:07:22 I'm sure I could look at the build code and figure it out, but if you know offhand, all the better :) Dec 16 06:31:20 Ok java 1.4 works. Java 1.5, and 1.6 segfault. Dec 16 06:31:47 java 1.4 should be enough for anyone! Dec 16 06:34:37 OK on my MacBook Pro (Other computer) which was having this same issue, an update to 10.5.6 and a reboot resoled the issue.. the Current version of java is working Dec 16 06:35:07 but apparently it means you can't jailbreak an iPhone with that machine anymore Dec 16 06:35:50 Whoop de do.. (I can always reinstall the OS.. not like a G1 where you can't downgrade.. ;) Dec 16 06:36:06 ha ha ha Dec 16 06:36:07 Besides, I don't want an iPhone Dec 16 06:36:20 I thought everyone here had an iPhone? Dec 16 06:36:21 well i just said fsck this.... and i'm ordering a dev phone Dec 16 06:36:27 was Pol lying? Dec 16 06:36:33 i have an iPhone Dec 16 06:36:36 and a g Dec 16 06:36:36 1 Dec 16 06:37:19 DOn't blame you guys for buying iPhone, just means you are weak, and couldn't wait for the G1. ;) Dec 16 06:37:30 pretty much that was it Dec 16 06:38:00 same here Dec 16 06:38:10 i was the biggest pre-android fanboy Dec 16 06:38:17 i tried waiting for the "dream" Dec 16 06:38:28 but my htc wizard died 1 month before release Dec 16 06:38:32 haha you just called yourself a fanboy :) Dec 16 06:39:00 so i got the iphone and then sold it and cancled contract, collecting 125 in the end to pay for most of my g1 Dec 16 06:39:42 im an android fanboy and proud of it Dec 16 06:39:50 lol... I am a heavy user of Google apps (contacts and calendar mostly). So waiting was easier for me. Dec 16 06:39:52 * d0netsFN does his android fanboy dance Dec 16 06:39:58 I've never had an HTC device before, because they've all been windows phones... Dec 16 06:40:08 d0netsFN: is it kinda like The Robot? Dec 16 06:40:28 yea Dec 16 06:40:30 I can't stand WinMo Dec 16 06:40:36 but with a nerd style to it Dec 16 06:40:36 i put android m5 on my htc vogue i had :) Dec 16 06:40:47 wm6 is nice with custom roms Dec 16 06:40:51 iThings are OK, Blackberries are OK Dec 16 06:40:55 then everything i wrote for m5 broke :) Dec 16 06:40:55 some of the latest roms are nice Dec 16 06:40:59 Android is ok Dec 16 06:41:09 android is more than ok Dec 16 06:41:21 Ok see you guys in a few mins.. gonna reboot this box and see if it was the patch or the reboot that fixed java.. Dec 16 06:41:23 d0netsFN: Android will become more than OK Dec 16 06:41:28 right now it's just OK Dec 16 06:41:42 iPhone will probably never become more than OK Dec 16 06:42:39 hey guys, been out for a few days. whats new in android land? Dec 16 06:42:50 nothing Dec 16 06:43:01 marix: the google guys decided to send a devphone to everyone who spoke in this channel over the weekend Dec 16 06:43:12 damn it i knew it Dec 16 06:43:13 marix: FAQ is getting bigger: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Android_FAQ Dec 16 06:43:14 sorry you missed it... Dec 16 06:43:22 gj bgupta Dec 16 06:43:36 one thing from experience i know about open source stuff.. is the most important thing behind any project, are the people.. of almost equal importance is people finding that software useful Dec 16 06:43:58 the jury is out on android .. it needs to generate consumer excitement somehow :P Dec 16 06:44:13 snadge: you're wrong, I think Dec 16 06:44:29 here we go again, with pointless conversation... thank you snadge Dec 16 06:44:35 so for a project to be successful it needs people who find the software useful, but people wont be drawn to it unless the software is useful, which hinges on the success of the project. Dec 16 06:44:47 or rather, you're right - but the two things you just said are disconnected Dec 16 06:44:57 haha Dec 16 06:45:42 rebooting... be back in 10 Dec 16 06:45:43 the success of android as an open source project has little to do with its success as a consumer platform Dec 16 06:46:04 agreed Dec 16 06:46:11 yes and no.. what is the point of making android applicaitons, if nobody uses them Dec 16 06:46:22 i'm sure lots of android users don't know its open source and probably would say... open source what? Dec 16 06:46:35 i know a few of them Dec 16 06:47:19 again... android applications have little to do with "android the open source project" Dec 16 06:47:27 exactly Dec 16 06:47:34 case closed :) Dec 16 06:48:03 right.. but android the project, cant really be defined as a complete success.. until there are devices out there using it Dec 16 06:48:33 have you heard of the G1? Dec 16 06:48:43 there *are* devices out there... there's one in front of my on my desk Dec 16 06:48:48 g1, sounds catchy. tell me more! Dec 16 06:48:54 the g1 imho, is an noble first effort.. but like all first efforts, they fall short of other peoples 5th and 6th efforts etc Dec 16 06:49:07 wait.. there's a phone out there that runs android? Dec 16 06:49:15 haha Dec 16 06:49:16 why haven't y'all told me this?! Dec 16 06:49:22 look what you started snadge Dec 16 06:49:25 i have a g1 .. its one of those crappy t-mobile ones ;) Dec 16 06:49:26 hmm, google released this scoreboard app and it runs really slow Dec 16 06:49:29 i guess they got handed out this weekend too :( Dec 16 06:49:36 id ont get why google keeps screwing up their own listview optimizations Dec 16 06:49:37 that i bought a week before they announced and released the adp1 Dec 16 06:49:49 now _that_ pissed me off ;) Dec 16 06:50:00 jasta, yea the listview needs some work.... Dec 16 06:50:20 i guess... Dec 16 06:50:21 can anyone else here remember windows mobile version 1? Dec 16 06:50:23 hey jsata i created an issue Dec 16 06:50:27 i think its actually the apps that are the problem Dec 16 06:50:30 for five Dec 16 06:50:32 snadge: fallacy Dec 16 06:50:50 or did they just start at like version 5.. so that it didnt sound new Dec 16 06:50:54 its the same one i was having back when you helped me set it up the fisrt time Dec 16 06:50:55 I've never used windows mobile Dec 16 06:50:57 so, no :) Dec 16 06:51:13 i'll look up windows mobile on wikipedia Dec 16 06:51:17 snadge: try calling it windows CE - aka wince Dec 16 06:51:23 michaelnovakjr: i just couldnt even tell you how you make apps that use listviews so slow. i wonder what the hell theyre doing Dec 16 06:51:33 Androids my first smart phone, but even I understand people are expecting too much Dec 16 06:51:49 jasta, i'd be interested in seeing Dec 16 06:51:49 G1 should NOT have been marketed as a consumer phone Dec 16 06:51:49 back Dec 16 06:51:51 period Dec 16 06:52:00 d0nets|G1: that's a known issue that JesusFreke identified and patched. I will apply his patch right now... Dec 16 06:52:26 <`krstnsn> sup d0netsFN Dec 16 06:52:31 <`krstnsn> -fm Dec 16 06:52:36 <`krstnsn> fn Dec 16 06:52:37 jasta, i'm still annoyed with the careless use of services, and the fact apps are running when there is absolutely no need to be Dec 16 06:52:42 ok how do fix it ? Dec 16 06:52:50 hey krstnsn Dec 16 06:53:03 jasta: the playlist thing? Dec 16 06:53:08 looks like a reboot did NOT solve my problem. But the good news is I do have a machine where I should be able to build ANdroid now. (My wimpy MacbookPro.) A little sad I can't get my Quad core Xeon working with java right now.. I can't run the same update as it's a hackintosh) Dec 16 06:53:08 "Windows Mobile's market share as an operating system for smartphones worldwide has fallen from 23% in 2004 down to 12% in 2008." ... yes!!! ;) Dec 16 06:53:20 JesusFreke: no, the mbid uniqueness. i forgot to fix it, so im doing that now :) Dec 16 06:53:25 ah. gotcha :) Dec 16 06:53:56 * bgupta Wonders if 2GB RAM will be enough to build Android on a Mac. Dec 16 06:54:01 jasta thanks Dec 16 06:55:13 the history of windows mobile is actually quite interesting.. i know, im a noob i should have read all this before Dec 16 06:55:25 michaelnovakjr: you are aware of the "empty memory is wasted memory" theory? Dec 16 06:55:59 i now understand how truly unfair it is to compare the current incarnation of winmo, to android Dec 16 06:56:03 Leeds, i had the lastfm scrobbler in the store running on my phone when the music app wasn't even playing Dec 16 06:56:13 tell me why this is necessary? Dec 16 06:56:26 how do you define 'running'? Dec 16 06:56:51 performing tasks Dec 16 06:56:55 in memory which would otherwise be unused, taking minimal-to-zero CPU/network/IO time? Dec 16 06:56:56 actually doing something Dec 16 06:57:06 then that's a failure of the app, I'd say Dec 16 06:57:15 that's my opinion Dec 16 06:57:25 i've found the easiest way to unload programs you no longer want in your phones memory.. is to turn it off, and turn it back on again :P Dec 16 06:57:37 i just uninstalled it :) Dec 16 06:57:41 which is something you have to do fairly regularly with your g1 anyway Dec 16 06:57:49 snadge: not me Dec 16 06:58:00 my phone has been running for 20 days Dec 16 06:58:02 snadge: Android is less than 1% market share, so :P Dec 16 06:58:08 JesusFreke: is it ok if i acknowledge your real name in the subversion comment? Dec 16 06:58:14 sure Dec 16 06:58:25 its possibly just australian 3g network thing.. but my phone constantly drops data connectivityg Dec 16 06:58:28 anyone good with sqlite on android? Dec 16 06:58:41 It's probably not too hard to find my name with a google search anyway. lol Dec 16 06:58:45 On android no, but I'm decent at sql :P Dec 16 06:58:46 sometimes i have to turn my phone off and back on again, just so i get a 3g signal Dec 16 06:58:59 and I use sqlite quite a lot... Dec 16 06:59:19 Leeds: with android? Dec 16 06:59:25 nope... Dec 16 06:59:26 also amusing to note that in australia your data connection switches between gprs and 3g.. we basically skipped edge Dec 16 06:59:32 oh Dec 16 06:59:33 oh and no data whatsoever Dec 16 06:59:36 darn Dec 16 06:59:46 what's your question, anyway? Dec 16 06:59:50 <`krstnsn> haha Dec 16 07:00:33 d0nets|G1: i just committed JesusFreke's fix. Dec 16 07:01:00 JF should work for t-mobile :P Dec 16 07:01:12 d0nets|G1: by the way, this happened because you had a duplicate file in your collection which, but which didnt literally have the same artist or album name (though musicbrainz thinks theyre identical) Dec 16 07:01:14 i think he has contributed more fixes to their OTA updates than they have Dec 16 07:01:17 in case you feel like purifying your collection too :) Dec 16 07:01:41 t-mobile doesn't really contribute at all to their OTA updates... Dec 16 07:02:12 its thanks to JF, that i can use my g1 in australia.. withourt getting a 35 cent international sms charge every minute or two Dec 16 07:02:31 snadge: what are you talking about? Dec 16 07:02:52 ok jast do i just get the source and rebuild the five server? Dec 16 07:02:59 bug in the US firmware.. MyFaves sends an sms message to the number 453 Dec 16 07:03:08 jasta* Dec 16 07:03:16 yes, just run svn update Dec 16 07:03:26 k Dec 16 07:03:29 if you're on t-mobile .. this is obviously free.. if you have unlocked your g1, and are using it overseas.. you can be charged a premium for those sms Dec 16 07:04:08 should I feel insulted that my (allegedly) unlocked US T-mob G1 doesn't seem to have anything called MyFaves? Dec 16 07:04:22 they would want to fix it pronto, before they get angry customers coming back from holiday.. with hundreds of dollars in sms charges Dec 16 07:04:49 Leeds: it does.. you cant access it from a menu as such, its a hidden application that just does whatever it feels like without your permission Dec 16 07:04:49 ** (five:23075): WARNING **: Couldn't stat referenced song 'FF4 - 11 - Come Back.mp3\u000d': No such file or directory Dec 16 07:04:49 five: meta.c:1577: process_work_queue_mbid: Assertion `rc == 101' failed. Dec 16 07:04:49 Aborted Dec 16 07:05:28 sounds like a playlist issue? not sure Dec 16 07:05:28 any idea about that jasta? Dec 16 07:05:43 a newline in the filename? Dec 16 07:05:46 oh, wait. Dec 16 07:05:51 oh oops. i forgot to update the database version Dec 16 07:05:58 sorry, CR, not NL Dec 16 07:06:02 unicode Dec 16 07:06:04 well actually, JesusFreke forgot to :) Dec 16 07:06:09 yeah :p Dec 16 07:06:12 i'd say theres also a potential privacy issue with sending sms messages from your phone, without your acknowledgement or permission Dec 16 07:06:21 d0nets|G1: just rm -f ~/.five/server.db Dec 16 07:06:22 wasn't familiar enough with it to know :p Dec 16 07:06:24 wow, that's upset my phone... Dec 16 07:06:31 nobody has explained to me why "MyFaves" needs to repeatedly send sms messages to the number 453 Dec 16 07:07:05 I'm pretty sure my phone isn't doing that, anyway Dec 16 07:07:12 are you on t-mobile? Dec 16 07:07:27 no, of course not Dec 16 07:07:37 which provider are you on.. at&t? Dec 16 07:07:46 Peoples/China Mobile Dec 16 07:08:04 ahh okay.. its only stupid telcos that appear to charge you for the 453 messages Dec 16 07:08:14 hmm... Dec 16 07:08:24 like optus australia Dec 16 07:08:33 jasta i did that Dec 16 07:08:41 and it went back to the error with deltron Dec 16 07:08:44 it has also affected people in france, germany, places like that Dec 16 07:08:51 deltron? Dec 16 07:08:52 Thank goodness I recently upgraded my macbook hhd to 500GB... lots of room for android sorce code. ;) Dec 16 07:09:02 ah, so just in communist countries :-P Dec 16 07:09:04 the previous error before the one you told me to fix with rm Dec 16 07:09:15 then i dont think you updated five-server... Dec 16 07:09:21 Leeds: in any case.. using the UK firmware is recommended if not on t-mobile in the usa :P Dec 16 07:09:54 specifically JF's modified UK firmware ;) Dec 16 07:09:57 by the way, you also need to update the android client with that latest change, you would eventually run into an issue there as well :) Dec 16 07:10:01 I'm using loads of data... thankfully my data is unmetered Dec 16 07:10:11 ok so when you say update Dec 16 07:10:17 do i just type "svn update" Dec 16 07:10:37 or do i do "svn update" and then follow the instructions to rebuld fives-server according to the INSTALL file Dec 16 07:10:55 the latter Dec 16 07:11:39 k Dec 16 07:12:30 Oh jeez.. installing git is gonna take awhile.. this is a pretty slim macports install. bbiab... Dec 16 07:13:48 ok jasta i did ./autogen.sh , make, sudo make install but i still get: Dec 16 07:13:50 ** (five:27919): WARNING **: Couldn't stat referenced song '03 - Let Me Go.mp3\u000d': No such file or directory Dec 16 07:13:50 ** (five:27919): WARNING **: Couldn't stat referenced song '\u000d': No such file or directory Dec 16 07:13:50 five: meta.c:1577: process_work_queue_mbid: Assertion `rc == 101' failed. Dec 16 07:13:50 Aborted Dec 16 07:15:04 but did you also delete ~/.five/server.db? :) Dec 16 07:17:00 thanks Dec 16 07:21:19 i did happen to notice that you are running five as root Dec 16 07:21:29 that is an exceptionally bad idea Dec 16 07:23:05 hrmm i uninstalled five under settings / applications Dec 16 07:23:15 then i did mvn -Dmasa.debug=true install Dec 16 07:23:27 but it isnt showing up under my applications pane Dec 16 07:23:32 on the g1 Dec 16 07:23:37 check mvn output for errors. Dec 16 07:24:32 http://pastebin.com/m4d802e44 Dec 16 07:24:37 there they are Dec 16 07:24:39 any ideas? Dec 16 07:25:26 yes, you need to set up your path to include the android tools folder Dec 16 07:25:37 hrmm i thought i did, but ok Dec 16 07:26:12 err, i misread. you need to edit the framework.aidl file per the install instructions Dec 16 07:28:25 i did Dec 16 07:28:39 parcelable org.devtcg.five.service.CachePolicy; Dec 16 07:31:11 ok i went through all the instructions again Dec 16 07:31:13 and it built this time Dec 16 07:31:19 but i still saw errors if you wanna check em out Dec 16 07:31:19 http://pastebin.com/m504c40d9 Dec 16 07:33:05 i dont see any errors there. looks to have installed just fine. Dec 16 07:33:17 yea its synchronizing Dec 16 07:33:25 does it matter if i synch via wifi, then go to edge? Dec 16 07:33:49 (local then remote) Dec 16 07:34:04 i would sync using 3G hehe Dec 16 07:34:21 i dont have 3g in the house for some reason Dec 16 07:34:47 well wifi will work if your network is setup to forward packets from any input device on the router Dec 16 07:34:52 but that might be the case for your environment Dec 16 07:35:04 well i just put the local ip in Dec 16 07:35:08 of my deskop pc Dec 16 07:35:14 well then it will never work properly on EDGE/3G. Dec 16 07:35:20 ok Dec 16 07:35:21 hrmm Dec 16 07:35:50 the sync process is going to take an eternity either way, might as well just do it over EDGE and set your phone down for a while :) Dec 16 07:36:21 ill have that fixed around the holidays when i get some free time :) Dec 16 07:37:20 Hey guys, curious how's it going throwing code over the wall? (IE: Roadmap item to finish releasing all source in Q4). Dec 16 07:37:33 damn yea im gonna have to set it down till tomorrow Dec 16 07:37:36 haha Dec 16 07:53:01 I'm using "android.provider.Thelephony.SMS_RECEIVED to catch SMS and it works pretty fine. Could someone tell me where I can find this broadcast in the source code? (can't find it) http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/providers/TelephonyProvider.git;a=blob;f=src/com/android/providers/telephony/SmsProvider.java;h=5dd483fc15ada5d872ddda6a65f23ad883ba4423;hb=15fe736a6429ed6e4cc0138ce88b241807af207e Dec 16 08:10:45 Damn good preso here: http://sites.google.com/site/io/anatomy--physiology-of-an-android Dec 16 08:11:25 good idea to provide slides Dec 16 08:11:34 yeah... Dec 16 08:12:00 I hate a lot of video stuff now because you have to look through the video to get info that would be simpler to read if it was transcribed somehow Dec 16 08:12:23 yes.. Dec 16 08:12:31 it's one of the more negative effects of Youtube-type stuff Dec 16 08:12:54 not that Youtube isn't awesome Dec 16 08:13:13 Is there a way to get to know if BT is on/off? Dec 16 08:13:26 spark__, i just got the shipping confirmation mail regarding the g1 dev phone :) Dec 16 08:13:28 agreed.. still trying to get used to the new "documentation" paradigm. Dec 16 08:16:17 cutmasta: me too :) Dec 16 08:16:44 I think spark__ is in nl, like me, so she'll probably get it, too Dec 16 08:16:45 cool, ok , so next big question would be, how long does shipping take to europe :) Dec 16 08:17:03 I think I saw somewhere that it was like 3-7 dats Dec 16 08:17:04 days Dec 16 08:17:15 after getting the shippied mail? Dec 16 08:17:19 but I still haven't gotten my trace code to work, btw Dec 16 08:17:25 cutmasta: that depends, but if you answer some simple questions, I think I can help Dec 16 08:17:30 cutmasta: 1) What is your favorite color? Dec 16 08:20:32 hello folks Dec 16 08:21:44 wonder if anyone has an idea how to tweak the MSM_CLK_CTL_BASE + 0xa0/0xa4 values ? Dec 16 08:22:30 how are these settings calculated ? Dec 16 08:25:24 lavender-t, you want to talk to sparkle :) Dec 16 08:25:33 she's not here atm though Dec 16 08:25:36 hum? Dec 16 08:25:42 oh hah Dec 16 08:25:43 oh, there you are :) Dec 16 08:26:02 hey lavender-t Dec 16 08:26:08 hi sparkle Dec 16 08:26:14 what're you trying to do? Dec 16 08:26:48 nice talking to you. i'm trying to make the mmc working on htc diamond Dec 16 08:27:00 need to know how to tweak the SD clocks Dec 16 08:27:02 ahhh Dec 16 08:27:56 we are trying to port android to htc diamond/raphael :) Dec 16 08:28:00 * sparkle nods Dec 16 08:28:32 lavender-t: where is MSM_CLK_CTL_BASE defined? Dec 16 08:28:35 so what's the mmc controller like on the diamond? Dec 16 08:29:02 its the MSM7201A stuff like G1 Dec 16 08:29:23 found it Dec 16 08:29:36 android git has grep search, didn't see that before Dec 16 08:30:09 bgupta: still there? Dec 16 08:30:20 the diamond uses a 4G moviNAND Dec 16 08:30:23 comes from msm_iomap.h tmzt Dec 16 08:30:31 still there Dec 16 08:30:41 rutski: Still here Dec 16 08:30:47 heh, yea Dec 16 08:30:58 just got up at 3:00 (3.5 hours later than last night) Dec 16 08:31:24 check out.. http://sites.google.com/site/io/anatomy--physiology-of-an-android (SLides and video) Dec 16 08:31:39 the proc_comm apparently doesnt work in raphael/diamond Dec 16 08:31:41 ah, neat Dec 16 08:32:16 i'm trying to following what the kaiser/vogue guys did Dec 16 08:32:38 by reimplementing clock.c without proc_comm Dec 16 08:32:50 yeah i'm not familiar with their work Dec 16 08:33:04 why is the only reference to MSM_CLK_CTL other than that header trout-panel? Dec 16 08:33:22 are there programmable registers sitting at +0xa0 in the 7201a? Dec 16 08:33:26 im driving down the motorway using my g1 :p Dec 16 08:33:27 how does the rest of the android kernel set up the clocks? they are all proc_comm? Dec 16 08:33:33 bgupta: ah, sweet! It's a software-level UNIXiy anatomy Dec 16 08:33:43 I thought it would be a hardware thing; which would have been less interesting Dec 16 08:33:49 *crash* :) Dec 16 08:33:56 yes. there is a pair of registers controlling the clock freq stuff Dec 16 08:33:58 Yes... very cool overyview.. full stack. Dec 16 08:34:19 I'm about 3/4 of the way through Dec 16 08:34:46 ah, no wonder you're up then Dec 16 08:34:50 from the code comments, also guess, some bits were probably the freq divider Dec 16 08:34:50 DOn't just flip the slides, watch the video at the same time... you'll be grateful Dec 16 08:35:01 yeah i'm looking at board-trout-mmc Dec 16 08:35:04 I'm also compiling android Dec 16 08:35:15 No pressure to get up at 8:30 by the way Dec 16 08:35:24 Oh I'll be up. Dec 16 08:35:38 oh wait Dec 16 08:35:41 other commitments? Dec 16 08:38:15 hmmm Dec 16 08:38:58 so are you starting from the board-trout- series and trying to patch in different proc_comm code or is there any functional diamond code you can graft? Dec 16 08:39:30 if you just need to bang in at an offset from the base that doesn't seem too bad, but there is a lot of mapping to be done for other stuff Dec 16 08:40:02 lavender-t: you have the _on_gpio_tables in your kernel? Dec 16 08:41:11 tmzt_: no Dec 16 08:41:40 are you configuring the alt functions for the gpio pins used for sd? Dec 16 08:41:52 or is the proc_comm command for that different Dec 16 08:41:59 sparkle: i'm working on the board-htcraphael.c which i think derived from the halibut Dec 16 08:42:15 I think we looked into this in #htc-linux in the last few days Dec 16 08:42:21 wow, just got the oddest pm on my forums Dec 16 08:42:38 Hi DarkriftX,I just run over your post that states you have a G1...I'm a graduate student at Shanghai Jiao Tong University and doing some research on computer vision algorithms on mobile devices. For the next project, I'd like to use android and the G1. To convince my professor to buy a G1 it would be great to have some benchmarking done beforehand. Dec 16 08:42:38 You would do me a great favour if you could test this app and send me the two numbers that are printed on the screen (i.e. the average execution time of two algorithms run 3 times). Execution on the emulator needs about 35 seconds. Dec 16 08:43:04 he gave a link to an apk, but im not running it lol Dec 16 08:43:08 Curious anyone know if bionic is dynamically linked shared library? Watching overview, question popped into my head... the presenter seems to imply that an additional copy of bionic is loaded into memory with each davlik instance. (Theoretically any process would do this I guess).. It would seem to me that this seems wasteful, and you would want to use the already loaded libraries. (Maybe I am tired and missing something) Dec 16 08:43:20 DarkriftX: run it in the emulator? Dec 16 08:43:23 anyone got a test g1 they arent worried about running an unknown app on? Dec 16 08:43:34 * DarkriftX removed the emu after i got my g1 lol Dec 16 08:43:34 morning all Dec 16 08:43:44 tmzt_: i got the info from netripper that the proc_comm didnt work Dec 16 08:43:49 Leeds: you got an emu handy? Dec 16 08:43:54 DarkriftX, what do you mean an unknown app? Dec 16 08:43:59 read the above Dec 16 08:44:06 i pasted 2 lines from a pm on my server Dec 16 08:44:39 sure :-) Dec 16 08:44:45 i'm not very sure about that. if we can make proc_comm work then it would be the best, i think. Dec 16 08:44:56 dont wanna post it in public just incase :S Dec 16 08:44:57 mmm.. I have the ADP1 I could run it on.. I'd want to factory reset it first though. Dec 16 08:45:11 this guy knows ive got root on my g1, so no idea what it could do Dec 16 08:45:26 but netripper suggested that proc_comm might not be able to work on raphael/diamond at all. Dec 16 08:45:58 mmm... got to get up and stretch my legs.. I'll think about ti over a cig... Dec 16 08:46:25 and cr2 suggested to port the clock impl of vogue/kaiser Dec 16 08:46:26 still booting Dec 16 08:46:33 lavender-t: can you dump the CLK_ base from haret? Dec 16 08:46:58 yeah i did +a0 and on Dec 16 08:46:59 bgupta: id rather it tested on a d1 or a second phone someone doesnt have important info on, just seems iffy Dec 16 08:47:41 HaRET(1)# pdump 0xa86000a0 16 Dec 16 08:47:42 a86000a0 | 0001fff4 fff50044 0001fffa fffb0044 | ....D.......D... Dec 16 08:48:22 I guess there is no way to disable the moviNAND though, it there? Dec 16 08:49:09 i think so. the movinand is just on-board Dec 16 08:49:22 no way to take it on. Dec 16 08:49:51 does devmem work on g1? Dec 16 08:50:22 no idea :( dont have a g1 Dec 16 08:51:23 DarkriftX just did a factory wipe on my ADP1... WHen I get back I'll play with the evil app. Dec 16 08:51:31 heh Dec 16 08:51:43 ahh, didnt knwo you had a dev device Dec 16 08:51:47 tmzt_: /dev/mem is not compiled into the default kernel, so you only have it if you have root access to swap in a new one Dec 16 08:52:06 no, there's no devmem on production g1 Dec 16 08:52:14 * DarkriftX goes for a smoke Dec 16 08:52:16 saurik: do you know if SDC2 is used on g1? particularly if it can be disabled Dec 16 08:53:03 tmzt_: I don' tknow what SDC2 is, but the kernel code and configuration are both available Dec 16 08:53:28 sd controller number 2 (1,2,3,4) Dec 16 08:53:36 * saurik (has not been following any of this conversation, he just glanced down and saw devmem) Dec 16 08:53:58 sure, lavender-t is trying to get mmc to work on the diamond Dec 16 08:54:51 lavender-t: the htc-vogue clock-7x00.c is interesting Dec 16 08:54:54 Can someone tell me why I can't catch the BluetoothIntent.ENABLED_ACTION with a receiver when the settings app is able to catch it? Dec 16 08:55:10 anno^da_: permissions? Dec 16 08:55:31 yeah i'm hacking that one :) Dec 16 08:55:58 I am rather confident that support for it is in the kernel (nothing about code around SDC2 looks any different from SD1 or even just DMOV, and none of it looks like it could be specifically disabled) Dec 16 08:55:59 just dont know how to tweak the numbers in the table Dec 16 08:56:04 past that, I will now exit this conversation ;P Dec 16 08:56:54 well, anyone who has a g1 or devphone with /dev/mem enabled, a dump of that phys address could be helpful Dec 16 08:57:43 by disabling I don't mean in the kernel (.config), but the same as removing a sd card from a slot or disabling wifi Dec 16 08:58:07 * saurik (isn't actually near his G1, which is at home somewhere, or he might help with that ;P) Dec 16 08:58:25 so that the a9 disables the clock/enables the clock which can be controlled over proc_comm Dec 16 08:58:37 then we can read the values Dec 16 08:59:21 Ok so here is a silly question... with an ADP1 from a factory wipe can I use the thing without a sim card? Dec 16 08:59:44 seems only option is emergency dialer Dec 16 09:00:15 the g1 doesnt have this movinand built-in i think\ Dec 16 09:00:37 it has a SD slot as i remember Dec 16 09:01:00 so the values on g1 might be different Dec 16 09:01:14 right Dec 16 09:01:36 i also tried the values that i read from haret Dec 16 09:01:49 that froze my phone Dec 16 09:04:38 DarkriftX: A couple wierd things... Is a SIM card mandatory to play with an ADP1? (I have one but was hoping to avoid having to swap it in. I was also hoping to avoid gmail activation... Dec 16 09:04:57 not sure Dec 16 09:05:01 is on a g1 though Dec 16 09:05:50 heat: yeah well I have tried the permissions. Dec 16 09:07:40 alright i'll need some sleep now. Dec 16 09:07:47 thanks very much tmzt Dec 16 09:08:06 ttyl ! Dec 16 09:08:57 Seems that with WiFi, one should be able to do something at least... :( even safe mode isn't bypassing the apparent need for a SIM card. Dec 16 09:10:27 im curious how the adp1 is with regards to that Dec 16 09:10:48 snadge: I am talking about the adp1 sitting on my desk.. Dec 16 09:11:16 that totally blows.. but then again, i bought my g1 to replace my existing phone Dec 16 09:11:17 It seems just as persnikerdy as a G1 in this regard. (Need SIM and Gmail account to get to home screen) Dec 16 09:12:08 I am guessing there is a bypass, that doesn't require a custom firmware, but I don't know what it is yet. Dec 16 09:12:14 i bet $1, that some pot smoking hippie free software people, are going to create a gpl'ed android replacement :P Dec 16 09:12:57 which doesnt require sim, gmail account etc.. hehe Dec 16 09:13:09 heat: got it working now :) Dec 16 09:13:22 I love open source code :D Dec 16 09:14:26 snadge: I think the project to port OpenMoko to G1 hardware is in progress. Dec 16 09:14:30 its not just about open source though, thats only part of the battle.. that still encourages vendor lock in, and proprietary forks.. have a look at exactly why the mobile phone market is stagnant and sucks now.. android does not promise to fix this Dec 16 09:15:35 Snadge, The thing is Google has given the community the tools to do it, they just aren't tying our shoelaces for us. Dec 16 09:15:54 cos you're going to have t-mobile's g1 android, and the fifty different sub revisions of that.. the open source hippy android, the google official android, uncle bob's crack factory android etc.. all with different bundles of the same things with slightly differing implementations etc Dec 16 09:17:37 Damn it takes forever to build android. Dec 16 09:18:34 I mean forever.. anyone in the room done it yet? Dec 16 09:18:46 android is a necessary first step.. but i say bring on more gpl'ed stuff, we're not going to see true innovation and freedom until everybody plays by the same rules Dec 16 09:18:59 WOndering if every build will take this long. Dec 16 09:21:09 you're cross compiling on a linux pc? or actually doing it on the hardware Dec 16 09:22:42 my maps editor is garbage Dec 16 09:22:57 on a Mac Dec 16 09:23:03 first of all it should be integrated with maps Dec 16 09:23:22 second you cant add a marker based on an address. Dec 16 09:25:55 third. it doesnt tell you the distance between 2 points Dec 16 09:26:06 some may argue thats what maps is for. Dec 16 09:26:15 but if it was integrated.... Dec 16 09:34:15 I'm pretty sure you need a SIM card, yes Dec 16 09:40:57 Bummer... guess I should create a bogus gmail account to test this evil app with.. Is DarkriftX even still around? Dec 16 09:43:34 haha evil app Dec 16 09:47:25 snadge: the GPL is a nonstarter for phone companies, and the GPL's actual record of innovation is lacking. Dec 16 09:47:51 Ok got the ADP1 activated with a test gmail account.. damn still need a sim card to power the damn thing on... Dec 16 09:47:52 mobile phone companies for their mobile phones, I should say Dec 16 09:48:18 oh wait nevermind... it works once activated without a sim card Dec 16 09:48:34 question, I'm tampering with init.rc, but instead of changing things here, I'd like to include a file on /data so I don't have to keep recreating boot.img every time I want to change something Dec 16 09:48:42 DarkriftX: You there. My phone is setup to test untrusted apps. Dec 16 09:48:44 is there a way to get init.rc to include another file on bootup? Dec 16 09:55:23 Foxdie, I don't believe so, unless the phone's linux is different that other linuxes Dec 16 09:55:56 bgupta: i noticed you the link Dec 16 09:56:00 long time ago Dec 16 09:56:21 i need sleep now, pm'd you Dec 16 09:56:38 what are you wprking on darkriftx? Dec 16 09:56:56 nothing Dec 16 09:57:01 someone pm'd me an apk i dont trust Dec 16 09:57:07 niiiiiice Dec 16 09:57:09 having someoen with a clean g1 test it Dec 16 09:57:26 oh Dec 16 09:58:04 anywho... night dudes Dec 16 09:58:17 me too Dec 16 09:58:18 gn all Dec 16 09:59:04 are these Californian people going to sleep? Dec 16 09:59:23 close, arizona Dec 16 09:59:24 its 3am Dec 16 09:59:33 work tomorrow Dec 16 09:59:51 6pm here... sleep well :-) Dec 16 09:59:59 Tuesday is almost done Dec 16 10:00:58 Foxdie: if you are using my init.rc I implemented the "import" command (although I called it include in the copies I released) Dec 16 10:01:01 here was the patch: http://review.source.android.com/5001 Dec 16 10:14:18 not sure if I'm using yours saurik Dec 16 10:14:33 its the one that came part of AndroidMod.zip Dec 16 10:14:38 boot_nosecure.img Dec 16 10:14:48 1,533,952 bytes Dec 16 10:15:00 Created Thursday 6th Nov 2008 Dec 16 10:22:10 any ideas saurik ? Dec 16 10:28:06 bgupta: still up? Dec 16 10:29:45 Foxdie: I don't know; if you are using JF's 1.2 then I believe it is mine Dec 16 10:33:36 it'll be yours then Dec 16 10:34:08 hmm, I've forgotten how to flash boot.img :) Dec 16 10:34:17 do I boot to recovery mode and do it? Dec 16 10:35:22 does the g1 automatically send crash reports to googles servers? Dec 16 10:40:39 Foxdie: no, boot_image boot boot.img Dec 16 10:41:05 tauno: afaik yes, as part of the checkin process Dec 16 10:42:18 do you mean flash_image boot boot.img ? Dec 16 10:42:22 err Dec 16 10:42:22 yeah Dec 16 10:42:45 ;) Dec 16 10:45:39 * Foxdie bites the bullet Dec 16 10:45:51 soooo... if I fuck this up, how fucked am I? ;) Dec 16 10:45:59 you just boot into recovery and you can flash it again Dec 16 10:46:07 * sparkle yawns Dec 16 10:46:15 ooh it booted up Dec 16 10:46:49 yeah provided recovery is sane you can, well, recover yourself :) Dec 16 10:46:53 well it worked... to a fashion Dec 16 10:46:56 I can't su :( Dec 16 10:47:03 we musn't panic Dec 16 10:47:36 you're in a terminal app? Dec 16 10:47:43 do you have /system/xbin? Dec 16 10:48:26 yep just did that, am root now Dec 16 10:48:30 * Foxdie sighs relief Dec 16 10:48:42 odd thing, I told it to use my new busybox sh as "the console" Dec 16 10:48:53 but when I telnet in now, I still get my sh as /system/bin/sh Dec 16 10:49:18 infact no, when I telnet in, it dies x.x Dec 16 10:49:31 oooh I've buggered this one up ^_^ Dec 16 10:49:50 so glad I took a backup of mtd2 before I did any of this, lol Dec 16 10:50:16 Foxdie: does you telnet read /etc/passwd ? Dec 16 10:50:39 Foxdie: don't use the telnetd if you can help it Dec 16 10:50:55 its the default telnetd that came with it I believe Dec 16 10:50:57 right Dec 16 10:51:00 it's broken in weird ways Dec 16 10:51:03 hmm, telnetd crashed. Dec 16 10:51:03 randomly dies Dec 16 10:51:05 and has no auth Dec 16 10:51:15 I did previously create /etc/passwd Dec 16 10:51:18 that file does exist Dec 16 10:51:18 #1 priority IMO is to get sshd on there :) Dec 16 10:51:24 it's the basic one that swetland wrote then Dec 16 10:51:24 agreed! Dec 16 10:51:35 sshd would much preferred Dec 16 10:51:48 nc -e might work too Dec 16 10:51:57 I think it was either JF or disconnect who tried to get dropbear working Dec 16 10:51:59 i would just go ahead and drop a decent userland on the sdcard Dec 16 10:52:00 but Dec 16 10:52:04 dropbear works Dec 16 10:52:15 there's a version around that's linked against bionic i think Dec 16 10:52:57 wonder where do I find the source for the native part for android.os.SystemProperties "native String native_get(String key);"? Dec 16 10:52:57 has anyone tried starting a foreign binary with /etc/ld-linux.so.2 -- ? Dec 16 10:53:28 has anyone tried starting a foreign binary with /etc/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path Dec 16 10:53:32 tauno: in the jni directory, probably Dec 16 10:53:55 has anyone tried starting a foreign binary with /lib/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path Dec 16 10:54:20 tmzt_: to what end? Dec 16 10:54:37 it's like LD_LIBRARY_PATH but works through chroot Dec 16 10:54:59 so you can launch a glibc or uclibc binary from the bionic sh Dec 16 10:55:04 I mean, for what purpose Dec 16 10:55:17 well, you would need to install glibc first, and if you install glibc first then you don't need to do that Dec 16 10:55:19 sshd, telnetd with nss I guess Dec 16 10:55:32 just install debian: http://www.saurik.com/id/10 Dec 16 10:55:36 it doesn't conflict with bionic at all? Dec 16 10:55:41 no Dec 16 10:55:47 bionic is installed in /system somewhere Dec 16 10:55:57 the way binaries get their dynamic linker on linux is that the path is hardcoded into the binary Dec 16 10:56:09 so programs that need bionic have /system/lib/whatever coded into them Dec 16 10:56:16 leaving you free to install glibc to /lib Dec 16 10:56:44 * sparkle nods Dec 16 10:56:48 which you could symlink to a folder on /sdcard Dec 16 10:56:51 and save space :) Dec 16 10:57:11 you have to use the sdcard for most anything useful Dec 16 10:57:11 what is bionic dynamic linker called? Dec 16 10:57:16 it's faster too :) Dec 16 10:57:18 doesn't take much to edit init.rc from what I"ve found and get it to symlink /lib to /sdcard/lib or something Dec 16 10:57:28 * saurik (just realized that the fonts on his website were seriously messed up from earlier, and due to the insane way in which we runs it he just had to restart the entire process to change that, so if anyone is going there right now and it failed, try again ;P) Dec 16 10:57:30 just means you won't be able to remove your SD card Dec 16 10:57:45 personally that doesn't bother me, I won't need to remove it whilst the phone is on anyway Dec 16 10:58:23 oh you can move it.. stuff using it will just crash (assuming the lib situation.. stuff that has it opened via open() will get killed rather than crash :P ) Dec 16 10:58:39 yeah Dec 16 10:58:50 Foxdie: i believe letting the computer access the card causes the sdcard to be unmounted on the phone Dec 16 10:59:07 zinx: it all depends on how you do things Dec 16 10:59:21 i have my sdcard sliced into 4 partitions, the first one is vfat on /sdcard - works fine Dec 16 10:59:42 ah Dec 16 11:00:32 thats a good idea sparkle Dec 16 11:01:41 just keep in mind that the g1 has a slow memory bus, and not a huge amount of memory when you factor in the normal android framework Dec 16 11:01:53 umm Dec 16 11:01:57 treat it like a unix system from a decade ago and you'll be more than happy Dec 16 11:02:02 musings time Dec 16 11:02:05 is internal memory faster? Dec 16 11:02:12 I built busybox 1.13.1 for the G1 Dec 16 11:02:19 and as such, it now has "login" Dec 16 11:02:22 try to apt-get with a full big catalog and it will thrash Dec 16 11:02:34 I created a user "foxdie" on my system using busybox adduser Dec 16 11:02:44 and I can run "login", and then log in fine with "foxdie" Dec 16 11:02:49 tmzt_: ram is far faster than flash, my sdcard is a bit faster than the internal mtd Dec 16 11:02:52 so why can't this be used for telnetd or sshd / dropbear? Dec 16 11:02:58 flash/SD aren't generally terribly fast Dec 16 11:03:07 but - ram is quite slow compared with most systems Dec 16 11:03:08 I mean the msm internal ram, what ever linux can access of it Dec 16 11:03:12 * Foxdie slumps off and tries to get SSHD working Dec 16 11:03:13 and if the RAM weren't faster, there would definitely be something wrong :P Dec 16 11:03:29 Foxdie: I'm confused; like, I ssh into my G1 all the time (again, as I have debian on it: I can install anything I want) Dec 16 11:03:57 tmzt_: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3009255 Dec 16 11:04:11 those are my memory benchmarks at 384mhz and 528mhz Dec 16 11:04:42 you've got about 128MB/s to memory, the scale/add/triad tests are limited by the cpu core speed Dec 16 11:04:58 that's decent for a handheld device but miserable compared with a desktop Dec 16 11:06:44 good thing i wasn't trying to buy a desktop :D Dec 16 11:07:00 interesting Dec 16 11:07:12 I guess the htc bootloader does the sdram init Dec 16 11:07:46 has anyone figured out how to do anything in the bootloader? or why it says Serial0 Dec 16 11:08:11 it's using the serial (uart) console? Dec 16 11:08:24 where are the pins for that? o_O Dec 16 11:08:40 they coexist with the wired headset pins Dec 16 11:08:50 * saurik (heads to bed, but as he does so he points out that he would love feedback on cyrket.com ;P) Dec 16 11:08:52 interesting Dec 16 11:09:07 yeah Dec 16 11:09:10 check out board-trout-h2w.c Dec 16 11:09:15 h2w is output only though? Dec 16 11:09:17 any purchasable adapters for that? Dec 16 11:09:29 good morning saurik :) Dec 16 11:09:37 it has tx and rx tmzt_ Dec 16 11:09:47 i've not tested it myself Dec 16 11:09:57 it's identified as uart3 in the code Dec 16 11:09:57 but Dec 16 11:10:08 hard to say how the bootloader might see things differently - i've not torn it apart Dec 16 11:11:24 would have to be the same hardware uart unless an internal one is used Dec 16 11:11:51 * sparkle shrugs Dec 16 11:11:56 "uart" is such an anachronism now anyway :) Dec 16 11:12:06 usart? Dec 16 11:12:15 sio? Dec 16 11:12:25 but there's no decent acronym for "itty bitty chunk of vhdl that does bit framing and clock recovery" :) Dec 16 11:12:47 ibcovtdbfacr Dec 16 11:12:49 Does someone know if it is true that I can not canel a notification (for example LED notif) made by another application? Dec 16 11:13:00 found "// TODO: Remove this code before shipping." from source.. wonder if they removed the code before shipping :) Dec 16 11:13:15 :D Dec 16 11:13:15 tauno: :)) Dec 16 11:14:43 ..I guess you meant "no" with that ;) Dec 16 11:15:22 maybe the code was removed/changed but not the comment :p Dec 16 11:15:30 romainguy: Is it true that if I override the LED color for incoming SMS messages I can't stop my LED and restart if right after with a different speed/color setting because the default LED notification keeps sitting in the background and activates the LED again when I stop mine for this short time. Dec 16 11:16:05 anno^da_: I have no idea and I don't even understand what you're saying :) Dec 16 11:16:16 but I know nothing about the way the LED works so... Dec 16 11:16:20 as strange as it sounds.. I do understand :7 Dec 16 11:16:28 :D Dec 16 11:16:34 scary Dec 16 11:16:48 but I don't know the answer :) Dec 16 11:16:52 Doenst matter it seems so be so. Dec 16 11:16:53 anno^da_: the notification system doesn't really provide a way to cancel them, i think Dec 16 11:17:06 zinx: yeah it seems so Dec 16 11:18:08 Ok so the users of my app will not get changing LED colors when they have missed a SMS + a call :) Dec 16 11:18:46 there's a programable led chip, why can't it be programmed? Dec 16 11:18:52 because you don't have root Dec 16 11:19:09 and it's not so much a chip as an i2c interface to change 3 LED brightnesses Dec 16 11:19:10 Well I have root but the normal user doenst have root :) Dec 16 11:19:21 yes Dec 16 11:19:26 whoo Dec 16 11:19:31 I got working authentication on telnetd Dec 16 11:19:34 And so it is not interesting for a normal application :) Dec 16 11:19:36 zinx: where did you find that? Dec 16 11:19:41 hm, i don't get blue leds.. although i have root Dec 16 11:19:54 eldenz: /sys/class/leds/ Dec 16 11:20:08 Well I have blue leds :O even without root. Just with the normal notifications manager. Dec 16 11:20:22 (one blue LED :P) Dec 16 11:20:22 yeah, the notification manager lets you choose a color Dec 16 11:20:36 but that is the only way to change the LEDs without root :< Dec 16 11:20:47 Well in fact you can get 6-7 colors out of it Dec 16 11:21:07 for one notification? Dec 16 11:22:16 Well I meant the colors that you can create with the LED. Not at the same time. :) Dec 16 11:22:42 oh :P Dec 16 11:22:43 with the normal HEX values you can create much more sure but the don't differentiate much. Dec 16 11:22:51 they Dec 16 11:23:02 yeah, it probably doesn't have 256 levels :P Dec 16 11:23:12 So well you can get purple and pink out of it Dec 16 11:23:16 or a fine red Dec 16 11:23:29 or blue like mentioned above Dec 16 11:23:31 why would you need any color other than pink Dec 16 11:23:41 :) Dec 16 11:23:51 i would guess you can get a decent green out of it as well :P Dec 16 11:24:00 Well in my app I have one color for calls, one for missed calls, one for sms, one for Bluetooth Dec 16 11:24:10 Yeah sure green is possible as well :) Dec 16 11:24:17 was joking about the pink thing ;) Dec 16 11:24:21 :D Dec 16 11:24:30 Pink for the girls ;) Dec 16 11:24:49 They love it like ringtone *rolling eyes* Dec 16 11:24:56 ringtones Dec 16 11:28:20 what other ops does the pca963x support? Dec 16 11:30:44 http://www.standardics.nxp.com/literature/leaflets/i2c/pdf/rgb.rgba.led.drivers.pdf Dec 16 11:37:44 h Dec 16 11:39:28 hum, idly wondering if google's planning on writing an app for Google Reader Dec 16 11:42:56 the dgAlert PRefs led notification demonstration never stops ;< Dec 16 11:43:50 LED notification loop of doom Dec 16 11:45:40 so you get a rave? Dec 16 11:45:40 and i'm starting to get the firefox-feeling Dec 16 11:46:53 you have several apps (extensions) accessing similar parts of the core/settings (but fulfilling different tasks).. you don't know how they each do things (no source) but you just assume they will interfer with eachother and not work how expected Dec 16 11:48:03 like the ToggleSettings app that lets me chose between normal/vibraonly/normal+vibra/silent and now dgAlert Prefs that overwrites how sms notifications are done Dec 16 11:58:01 neems more source Dec 16 11:59:32 needs, rather Dec 16 12:00:13 do I understand it correctly that Android reports crash reports etc to google at some intervas? (like ANR errors etc..) Dec 16 12:00:47 no it doesn't Dec 16 12:00:57 there's code for that but it's only for our test builds Dec 16 12:01:25 exceptions are indeed reported from our test devices, the ones we (the Android team and/or Google employees) carry around Dec 16 12:01:39 it's pretty darn useful too :) Dec 16 12:02:04 romainguy, oh, ok.. so "Blocked by block_crash_reports: http://android.clients.google.com/crash" indicates that that stuf is not reported? :) Dec 16 12:02:28 looks like it Dec 16 12:02:42 romainguy, thanks :) Dec 16 12:30:54 why are things logged anyway if the logs are only reported for dev phones only? just curious Dec 16 12:32:32 so that we can still debug non dev phones Dec 16 12:33:39 hey guys, have we any news about the next OTA update? Dec 16 12:34:50 no Dec 16 12:34:51 :) Dec 16 12:35:05 SGTDavePwnage: Have you *ever* known Google to give out advance info about releases? Dec 16 12:35:19 lol, would be nice Dec 16 12:35:23 SGTDavePwnage: Heh. Dec 16 12:35:35 SGTDavePwnage: I run dogfood (testing) builds and even I don't get release info :P Dec 16 12:35:51 SGTDavePwnage: There are no ChangeLogs for OTAs, as far as I know. Dec 16 12:36:14 anyone got any info on the announcement from t-mobile coming later this week? seems like they are commenting on root access Dec 16 12:36:40 SGTDavePwnage: I didn't know they were making an announcement. How do you know it's about root access? Dec 16 12:38:03 its a shame we get so little info about builds. Ive been talking to the Directors team who are waiting for something to be passed through their legal dept, some announcement on the g1 root issue Dec 16 12:38:39 SGTDavePwnage: why would they announce anything about root access? Dec 16 12:38:56 it got fixed a few weeks ago already Dec 16 12:39:18 i think from what they are saying is that its a response to all the people who are wanting root access Dec 16 12:39:38 SGTDavePwnage: What "Directors team"? Dec 16 12:39:59 they work with the uk company directors Dec 16 12:41:11 im just interested what theyre stance/response will be Dec 16 12:41:33 I would be really surprised if T-Mobile made an announcement about such a thing Dec 16 12:41:44 but we'll see Dec 16 12:42:22 they told me to expect one last thursday, and they say its been delayed. But yea, it would be suprising Dec 16 12:44:54 ttuttle: what dogfood build are you on atm? anything new and fancy on the horizon? Dec 16 12:45:29 SGTDavePwnage: he's not supposed to talk about it Dec 16 12:45:41 ahh. ok, my bad Dec 16 12:48:58 SGTDavePwnage: Yeah, what romainguy said. Dec 16 12:50:57 the only "update" thats noteworthy is that they closed off the root "bug" in RC30 ;) Dec 16 12:51:00 Is there any way to tweak the sensitivity on the trackball? Dec 16 12:51:14 i wish Dec 16 12:51:22 snadge: not true, I think they threw in a few other bugfixes. Dec 16 12:51:50 snadge: but yeah the root thing was the big deal. Dec 16 12:52:43 would've been nice if they'd have left root available via adb tho :-) Dec 16 12:53:23 SGTDavePwnage: eh, would've been nice for devs, but then anyone could destroy your phone by just plugging something in to it. Dec 16 12:53:33 lo SGTDavePwnage, I read your onto the directors team about your G1 Dec 16 12:53:53 i ended up speaking to them about a year ago about my 3g signal that disapered 11 months into my contract Dec 16 12:54:02 well, mebi some other obscure way that none devs couldnt do so easily Dec 16 12:54:07 they are helpful and get back to you eventualy Dec 16 12:54:22 SGTDavePwnage: great, but that's just obfuscation. Dec 16 12:54:26 Impossible: yeah they dont actually fob you off Dec 16 12:54:31 ;) Dec 16 12:54:54 SGTDavePwnage: i mean, if you mean "a backdoor", it'll get found, and it's foolish. Dec 16 12:55:23 but its less likley to be acidentally used by non devs Dec 16 12:56:01 SGTDavePwnage: if it's accessible in any automated way (like usb) it can be abused. Dec 16 12:58:44 ttuttle: dont get me wrong, the problem needed to be sorted. I just personally would like the option, mebi secured using my google pass Dec 16 13:01:05 tuttle: anyways im sure this convo has been had many times in here already :-p Dec 16 13:01:07 ugh found another shitstorm in the messaging program Dec 16 13:01:31 sigh Dec 16 13:04:13 what implementation of Context defines checkCallingOrSelfPermission(String blah)? :) Dec 16 13:05:22 tauno: use an IDE, it will tell you :) Dec 16 13:05:56 (mental note to myself: download the source.. you can't continue to bother people with that kind of questions) Dec 16 13:06:42 romainguy, it says ContextWrapper.. but.. Dec 16 13:07:03 tauno: that's one implementation Dec 16 13:07:40 romainguy, indeed.. now my IDE skills are not that good that I could get other implementation details out of it :( Dec 16 13:08:06 ContextWrappers implementation of it is not helping that much ;) Dec 16 13:08:51 it's in ApplicationContext Dec 16 13:09:20 thank you for the (n+1)th time Dec 16 13:09:27 but it ends up calling stuff in the ActivityManager if I recall correctly Dec 16 13:09:56 and probably the PackageManager as well Dec 16 13:13:34 ok.. another thingie from the same topic - my app uses the "android.permission.ACCESS_CHECKIN_PROPERTIES" permission but I can't access the checkin properties. http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=core/java/android/server/checkin/CheckinProvider.java checkPermissions() throws SecurityException("Cannot access checkin properties"); - someone has an idea what I'm doing wrong? :) Dec 16 13:14:06 maybe a signature or something Dec 16 13:14:07 I don't know :) Dec 16 13:14:32 huh..signature? Dec 16 13:15:46 if you don't know it then I'm lost :)) then I still have to trace what checkCallingOrSelfPermission does and why it keeps shutting me out :P Dec 16 13:38:27 grrr no easy way to get mms :/ Dec 16 13:38:48 * mmarker kicks the kernel. Dec 16 13:40:16 Anyone good with gitweb? I'd like to see a diff between two branches, and can't formulate a good way to do it. Dec 16 13:43:39 ohh. I think i got it...and it looks like I'm killing the machine... Dec 16 13:47:15 android should be ported to a platform where Process.supportsProcesses() returns false.. Dec 16 14:12:35 morning. Dec 16 14:12:41 good morning Dec 16 14:12:57 its snowing here... the roads were total shit Dec 16 14:13:05 im the only one here so far Dec 16 14:13:41 that makes me bored... whats up guys? Dec 16 14:14:43 hi Dec 16 14:14:45 im hard at work Dec 16 14:15:07 blau-MikeDG: sounds like an hr problem waiting to happen. Dec 16 14:15:32 that's sexual harassment Dec 16 14:15:37 and... that's kind of hot ;D Dec 16 14:19:28 so i've heard "in passing" from some of the platform guys that qvga is basically a non-starter right now. that still true? Dec 16 14:20:14 yes and no Dec 16 14:20:27 320x240? o_O Dec 16 14:20:28 * jbq waves at romainguy Dec 16 14:20:32 i heard in passing that google was going to give out free phones to cool people Dec 16 14:20:35 it would require to fix some assets and layout files Dec 16 14:20:37 is that still true? Dec 16 14:20:42 blau-MikeDG: I did last week Dec 16 14:20:49 hoyo jbq Dec 16 14:21:02 blau-MikeDG: your eligibility for that promotion is in question. Dec 16 14:21:05 blau-MikeDG: it was part of a different discussion Dec 16 14:21:22 :( Dec 16 14:21:26 i wouldn't mind a free G1/Dev phone switch Dec 16 14:21:44 zinx: http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/news-your-g1-adp1-upgrade Dec 16 14:22:27 Disconnect: yeah thanks, already well aware of that though Dec 16 14:22:33 disconnect has replaced the bots Dec 16 14:22:36 hes a fountain of knowledge Dec 16 14:22:41 Thank you for your snarky reply in the form of a url Dec 16 14:23:24 vol: its a stupid question. and its not just a stupid question, its a stupid faq. Dec 16 14:23:46 I would say it's a stupid analogy Dec 16 14:23:57 Disconnect: i wasn't asking a question Dec 16 14:23:59 what difference, aside from bootloader and libraries, is there between the G1 and the ADP Dec 16 14:24:11 it has a cool back cover Dec 16 14:24:29 Disconnect: when i ask a question, it looks like this: does this look like a question? Dec 16 14:24:30 vol: assuming you swap the bootloader (for the original one w/ the sig check, not the v2 i'm hosting) and the software loads, its just the back cover. Dec 16 14:24:47 if the difference between a geo and a suzuki was the engine computer, what would really be terrible about reflashing the engine computer to act as a suzuki? Dec 16 14:25:06 once again, car analogies shoehorned into places they do not belong Dec 16 14:25:27 vol: its not the reflashing part. its "what is so terrible about asking geo for a new suzuki engine computer?" Dec 16 14:25:35 This is like buying a laptop from dell with windows and asking them to reformat it and install linux Dec 16 14:25:53 wait, i thought google was geo Dec 16 14:25:59 * Disconnect never said you can't get there from here. just that tmob has no interest - nor should they realistically - in helping you do so. Dec 16 14:26:00 Disconnect: if the car is exactly the same except for the firmware.... Dec 16 14:26:00 google is hyundai Dec 16 14:26:00 or is google suzuki? Dec 16 14:26:07 more like buying a laptop from microsoft, but this is all completely beyond the point Dec 16 14:26:17 which is that i never asked google to upgrade my G1 to a ADP1 Dec 16 14:26:33 i just said it would be nice to have it switched. sheesh. Dec 16 14:26:37 can't a man have dreams? Dec 16 14:26:47 zinx has wet google dreames Dec 16 14:26:53 it sure would be nice if someone gave me $20,000. Dec 16 14:26:53 it's true Dec 16 14:26:57 disconnect, if we give you your bots back will your bad attitude go away? Dec 16 14:26:58 Disconnect: precisely Dec 16 14:26:59 I'm feeling lucky ;D Dec 16 14:27:32 hey guys send me all your regular g1's Dec 16 14:27:36 ill send one of you an adp Dec 16 14:27:42 haha Dec 16 14:27:50 it's my lucky day! Dec 16 14:27:57 do we get more chances if we send in more G1s? Dec 16 14:28:12 yes Dec 16 14:28:50 haha. open the emulator in qvga-p and check out the dialer (and the home screen, but esp the dialer) Dec 16 14:30:38 thats a neat trick... Dec 16 14:30:41 oooh landscape is even better. the lock screen is cut off. Dec 16 14:32:56 Yeah, just about any screen that heavily relies on bitmaps is likely to currently have major issues in any resolution other than HVGA. Dec 16 14:33:06 * jbq shakes a fist at the visual designers. Dec 16 14:33:08 and there is no dialer in landscape. but the in-call screen is trashed.. Dec 16 14:34:02 jbq: can android grok svg? Dec 16 14:34:04 wtf in the content provider tables, mms and sms dates are diff formats sighhh Dec 16 14:34:08 mmarker: no Dec 16 14:34:11 mmarker: nope. Dec 16 14:34:19 * jbq shudders at the shought. Dec 16 14:34:24 s/shought/thought/ Dec 16 14:34:39 blau-MikeDG: ha, wonder if it uses the protocol's date/time format Dec 16 14:34:42 and random question, why the assumption that qvga-l has a permanent kb but qvga-p doesn't? couldn't you do a rotatable no-kb qvga device? Dec 16 14:34:49 well not really different formats Dec 16 14:34:57 ..rather, a qvga device that has teh form factor of the g1. Dec 16 14:35:02 it looks like mms dates need to be multiplied by 1000 Dec 16 14:35:05 Disconnect: because you are running the g1 profile Dec 16 14:35:16 yah nevermind stupid question Dec 16 14:35:30 i had my p/l backwards Dec 16 14:36:37 gotta say i prefer numbers to all these random ???VGA designations Dec 16 14:36:56 have to look it up every time one is mentioned :x Dec 16 14:37:53 half/quarter vga.. vga is 640x480.. so... Dec 16 14:38:14 MVGA Dec 16 14:38:17 BVGA Dec 16 14:38:51 yeah, then there's QVGA (Quad VGA) and a ton of other random letters that are supposed to mean something :/ Dec 16 14:39:21 adding widescreen makes it even cooler, wqxvga Dec 16 14:39:38 yep Dec 16 14:39:42 zinx: perfect android app "resolution decoder ring" Dec 16 14:39:51 mmarker: you're so totally right Dec 16 14:41:21 http://code.google.com/android/reference/emulator.html has a cheat sheet under -skin .. qvga. quarter-vga. 320x240, 1/4 the screen size of vga (640x480) Dec 16 14:42:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg Dec 16 14:42:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg Dec 16 14:42:51 lol, nm Dec 16 14:43:13 i've seen like 10 times that amount of random ???VGA variants though Dec 16 14:43:13 doesn't cover hvga but yah. Dec 16 14:44:16 the good news is, android comes in hvga and qvga. (i wonder if a vga device would work..? I know its not specced, even though it could be made, because they want to force everyone to a new spec later when the device is available. they're in league with the sd consortium. or something.) Dec 16 14:44:50 there's not a specification for that, afaik Dec 16 14:45:17 may be wrong though Dec 16 14:45:31 It's supposed to be more resolution-independent than that. qvga and hvga are the resolutions of the devices it primarily ran on last year and this year. Dec 16 14:46:16 (emphasis on "supposed to") Dec 16 14:46:44 jbq: didn't you post a link very recently that said what an android device must/should/can provide? Dec 16 14:47:15 i wanan see it Dec 16 14:47:24 On android-developers? That was a link about what Android could distinguish on when selecting resources. Dec 16 14:47:46 yah i just found it :( Dec 16 14:47:56 http://code.google.com/android/devel/resources-i18n.html#AlternateResources Dec 16 14:49:02 If anything, it shows that Android intends to run on a wide variety of devices. Dec 16 14:49:43 (I'd love it if the emulator could be easily configured to emulate all those possibilities) Dec 16 14:49:55 or one device with more input methods than it needs... Dec 16 14:51:01 i'm so glad the whole "advertise color 320x240 as 960x240" thing didn't take off Dec 16 14:51:14 ok that was -really- surreal. and i almost blamed k-9. for some reason the osx update reenabled a disabled/removed email account.. and hten the inbox showed a mix of work and home mail. Dec 16 14:51:14 except in the camera world Dec 16 14:54:12 hm Dec 16 14:54:37 what would happen if I made an attempt to rename a "Folder" in /data/data/com.android.providers.settings/database/settings.db ? Dec 16 14:54:47 everything would explode Dec 16 14:55:49 would it really breake it? Dec 16 14:55:51 *break Dec 16 14:55:57 no Dec 16 14:55:59 it would work Dec 16 14:56:14 but it will break in a future update Dec 16 14:56:24 I moved the favorites table from this database to another one Dec 16 14:56:33 ooh Dec 16 14:56:41 do tell :) Dec 16 14:56:42 basically that's what AnyCut does Dec 16 14:56:50 it just changes things in the settings database Dec 16 14:56:53 I've got anycut installed Dec 16 14:57:02 what I want to do is rename a folder Dec 16 14:57:11 open the folder Dec 16 14:57:12 open the folder Dec 16 14:57:13 long press its title Dec 16 14:57:15 then press on the title bar Dec 16 14:57:17 because the name "Folder" is a bit... unhelpful Dec 16 14:57:18 no ned to hack the database Dec 16 14:57:18 long press Dec 16 14:57:23 ooh Dec 16 14:57:39 I'll just grow some donkey ears now :) Dec 16 14:57:45 the folders seem so out of place though Dec 16 14:57:55 the look, the feel, how you rename them Dec 16 14:58:01 I haven't used K-9mail ... since I found jasta's version of Email Dec 16 15:00:03 Damm: well, for the record it is not responsible for copying a ton of messages from my home account ot my work account :) Dec 16 15:00:29 Disconnect, uh okay that's good to know. Dec 16 15:00:33 :) Dec 16 15:01:17 i wanna make something that uses google app engine Dec 16 15:01:41 i want google reader to go back to being stable :( Dec 16 15:01:59 google reader works fine on FF 3.1b2 Dec 16 15:02:14 Damm: ok. when will you have that ported to android? :) Dec 16 15:02:16 i tried it once on the G1... uh no thanks Dec 16 15:02:21 the mobile version has gone all unpleasant recently. Dec 16 15:02:22 it was a joke Dec 16 15:03:07 searching in feeds works again at least (non-mobile version) Dec 16 15:06:47 its wonky about 'keep unread' (doesn't always take) which is ok cuz it frequently gets confused such that 'mark these as read' has no effect. blanks, then comes back to the same list. its bad :( Dec 16 15:15:11 mobile version of webapps has always pretty much been the bane Dec 16 15:15:13 of being mobile Dec 16 15:15:36 apple tried to solve it with their iphone 'web emulator'. Dec 16 15:15:47 but all it did was make people detect the iphone and dumb it down. Dec 16 15:17:04 have you seen the list of free iphone applications? how many of those could not have been web applications or webkit/canvas widgets? Dec 16 15:17:12 Damm: Some are excellent. JetBlue has a decent mobile site. Dec 16 15:17:22 or palm cliping apps Dec 16 15:17:56 who cares if something should have or could have been web apps? Dec 16 15:17:56 most of them were, before the app store.. Dec 16 15:18:22 web app means you need an internet connection Dec 16 15:18:47 google did the iphone thing right though - it was magic for the flagged useragents, but you could still use the full site. or use the "smart mobile" iphone site from other platforms (e90 + google reader iphone was -very- usable, compared to the old mobile one..) Dec 16 15:19:12 (and of course they just added android to that useragent list) Dec 16 15:19:51 palm clipping??? Dec 16 15:19:58 haven't heard that phrase in a while... Dec 16 15:20:11 compiled html Dec 16 15:20:14 right Dec 16 15:20:36 Disconnect, the problem is flagging mobile based on your browser is incorrect. There needs to be some standard of Mobile Browsing (Like WAP) so that developers only need to handle 1 Mobile type, instead of 5. Dec 16 15:20:40 or more Dec 16 15:20:58 the old VII Dec 16 15:21:04 there is a standard... html? Dec 16 15:21:19 blau-MikeDG, right, but html is vague... Dec 16 15:21:21 sure, but thats a problem with all web browsers right now. Dec 16 15:21:26 actually, the de facto standard is 'webkit' right now Dec 16 15:21:50 * Disconnect works @ a .com, most of our testing and a good chunk of our bugs are related to browser-specific issues. (esp ie6.) Dec 16 15:21:50 Disconnect, it's not as bad on the 'Desktop' as it is on the Mobile Platform. Dec 16 15:22:11 well desktops all have fairly large screens Dec 16 15:22:11 IE6 is evil and must die Dec 16 15:22:26 you get the same issues you do on mobile platforms that you do when you go down to netbook screens Dec 16 15:22:27 jesus IE6 Dec 16 15:22:28 mobile is actually pretty simple these days. - images? N -- wap-style. robust javascript? N -- static. Y -- css+js ajax "iphone" version.. Dec 16 15:22:50 the problem is sites that don't let you override it. Dec 16 15:23:09 my e90 could never see the woot item on yahoo shopping because it got forwarded to their crappy wap-style portal every time :( Dec 16 15:23:40 you can't specify a ua? Dec 16 15:23:46 browser side? Dec 16 15:23:52 i got m y next project!!! Dec 16 15:24:19 marix_work: not on the default browser. can't do it on android either (steel does tho) Dec 16 15:24:20 A Google App Engine/Android project designed to let me send SMS from my Kindle as though they were from my mobile phone! Dec 16 15:24:46 disc: do you know if the steel problem with cache is related to webviews in general or just a steel issue? Dec 16 15:25:04 disconnect, i guess i never tried. havn't had any issues with the browser. On my old blackberry i had to run it in ie mode for a few banking sites though. Dec 16 15:25:05 dunno what problem it is. Dec 16 15:25:17 you have too many neat toys, blau-MikeDG Dec 16 15:25:25 i heard a few people in hear mention that steel just fills the cache up with no way to empty it Dec 16 15:25:29 i thought it was you Dec 16 15:25:31 neat Dec 16 15:25:43 nope. not me. market does that tho. and browser leaks window screenshots. Dec 16 15:26:38 wtf Dec 16 15:26:44 you own a kindle? Dec 16 15:26:58 * Disconnect owns a cybook. its like a kindle only useful (ooooh) Dec 16 15:27:11 i can't think of a single reason to own an ebook reader. Dec 16 15:27:13 haha Dec 16 15:27:25 im with marix Dec 16 15:27:40 and if someone is to get one... why kindle Dec 16 15:27:49 it's a successful mobile Linux device? Dec 16 15:28:00 what do they cost 400? Dec 16 15:28:03 its like back in the day when portable dvd players cost the same as a laptop w/ a dvd drive in them... Dec 16 15:28:03 kindle has a free internet connection Dec 16 15:28:10 and a keyboard Dec 16 15:28:18 marix_work: i got tired of hauling around 900pg paperbacks (2 of them if i was about to finish one) .. cybook holds the whole trilogy (6 of those books, yah i know..) in about 1.5% of it available onboard storage. Dec 16 15:28:24 marix_work: but had batteries which lasted 3 times as long when playing movies? Dec 16 15:28:25 if I was reading PDF's daily Dec 16 15:28:32 I could honestly see the point of a Kindle Dec 16 15:28:35 being able to easily buy from amazon is awesome Dec 16 15:28:39 Damm: ebook readers and pdfs are a -bad- mix Dec 16 15:28:41 pdfs don't reflow Dec 16 15:28:53 I read on my phone... fbreaderj is crap at file handling, but makes a good reader Dec 16 15:28:53 you can also get certain items sent automatically and daily Dec 16 15:28:56 Disconnect, heh what does kindle use then? a custom drmed format? Dec 16 15:29:01 yep. Dec 16 15:29:11 figures Dec 16 15:29:17 * vol pines for a reader for his phone Dec 16 15:29:19 i think the drm is one of my problems w/ it Dec 16 15:29:19 every ebook reader uses a custom drmed format Dec 16 15:29:25 blau-MikeDG: it's called an RSS reader and an unmetered data connection... doesn't need to be sent in a special format Dec 16 15:29:26 cybook can handle a couple of popular drm formats and basically all of the popular text formats tho. its nice that way. Dec 16 15:29:29 you can also stick on mobireader format too Dec 16 15:29:31 blau-MikeDG: nope, sorry Dec 16 15:29:46 I thought it *was* mobireader with a slight tweak to the DRM? Dec 16 15:29:49 I get pissed when people give me drm'd pdf's. Dec 16 15:30:13 the reasoning behind owning an ebook reader is completely valid. its the buying a kindle that kills me. its huge ugly and costs and arm. Dec 16 15:30:24 things have improved, but I remember commenting out the 2 lines of code in xpdf a few years ago which implemented the "do not print" bit :-) Dec 16 15:30:30 its not huge... Dec 16 15:30:33 <`vip> it's not huge though Dec 16 15:30:37 yah i -really- -really- wanted to like the kindle. then i saw the format restrictions and got to hold one.. omg.. Dec 16 15:30:42 <`vip> i love the kindle, will buy one after xmas Dec 16 15:30:48 <`vip> since they're not shipping till then anyways Dec 16 15:30:57 359.00 seems kinda pricy. Dec 16 15:30:57 When I buy a book it doesn't ask me for a password... or tell me I can't copy this or that. Why does a PDF do that? oh wait I can pirate it. Dec 16 15:30:59 its huge in my standards Dec 16 15:31:00 you have to use a kindle Dec 16 15:31:01 but I can Xerox a book Dec 16 15:31:13 specially with a Kindle2 out in the next 2-3years Dec 16 15:31:14 * Foxdie swears profusely at dropbear not compiling Dec 16 15:31:27 Could someone tell me if there is really no way to just start an application from my activity without using the Intent system? (this cant be true?) Dec 16 15:31:28 Foxdie: you see my patch? Dec 16 15:31:31 any smaller and you obscure the screen Dec 16 15:31:33 Foxdie, thought that dropbear was already compiled for the G1 Dec 16 15:31:43 kindle is infinitely more useable that the sony reader Dec 16 15:31:47 I'm trying to build it with auth support from the system, not a pre-made password Dec 16 15:31:55 I've already got telnetd working with a valid login system Dec 16 15:32:00 http://freshtech.wordpress.com/2007/12/29/how-does-kindle-stack-up-with-others-part-1/ Dec 16 15:32:12 but then.. telnet.. unsecure gayness :) Dec 16 15:32:13 kindle and cybook Dec 16 15:32:26 Disconnect, I'll take a look if its okay :) Dec 16 15:32:33 url? Dec 16 15:32:34 Foxdie: yah lemme get the link. Dec 16 15:32:38 thanks Dec 16 15:32:45 Foxdie: http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/first-g1-story-dropbear-ported Dec 16 15:32:48 brightest ink display? wtf Dec 16 15:32:56 anno^da_: I think the Intent system is *the way* to do it... that's the whole point of the system Dec 16 15:32:56 contrast Dec 16 15:32:58 do they mean highest contrast? Dec 16 15:33:17 oh lol Dec 16 15:33:21 had that link bookmarked already Dec 16 15:33:44 I was like "CTRL+D that bitch.. wait, how'd you get there already? dejavu?!" Dec 16 15:33:51 that seems like a fair comparison Dec 16 15:33:57 blau-MikeDG: actually thats a kinda crappy comparison :) Dec 16 15:34:00 blau-MikeDG: probably a throwback for the company who developed the tech (and marketing name eInk) Dec 16 15:34:12 55k mobi books is -super- low. and istr 90,000 kindle is high.. Dec 16 15:34:18 cybook wastes all that space on the bottom though Dec 16 15:34:26 does kindle have a web browser? Dec 16 15:34:27 also its the 2nd gen. cybook 3g (same price) is 512M onboard Dec 16 15:34:31 marix: yes Dec 16 15:34:38 it also has wikipedia as well Dec 16 15:34:44 well easy access to wikipedia Dec 16 15:35:37 hey neat. http://comparati.com/1145-Amazon-Kindle-vs-Bookeen-Cybook Dec 16 15:35:39 and kindle in your opinion is worth the price? Dec 16 15:35:41 my only gripe with kindle is i wish it was a little lighter Dec 16 15:35:51 again with the 64meg version to Dec 16 15:35:52 im not a big book person and i think kindle was worth the price Dec 16 15:35:58 wow Dec 16 15:36:06 the one big weakness (no pun intended) in teh cybook is its moderately fragile. Dec 16 15:36:06 you have too much money Dec 16 15:36:25 lol Dec 16 15:36:50 "not a big book person" dropping 300-400 Dec 16 15:37:02 thats a car payment Dec 16 15:37:10 <`vip> the big weakness is that you cant get content OTA with the cybook Dec 16 15:37:13 <`vip> that's why i like the kindle Dec 16 15:37:14 dropping 300-400 to have somehting lightweight and small to carry with me on plans is awesome Dec 16 15:37:28 my phone.... tada Dec 16 15:37:42 krstnsn: you dont have a g1? Dec 16 15:37:54 ya i do Dec 16 15:38:02 cause the battery wont last you actively doing anything for 3 hours straight Dec 16 15:38:12 i think i just need to travel more to appreciate things like that. Dec 16 15:38:12 Disconnect, did you have to build zlib against the armel toolchain? Dec 16 15:38:18 `vip: how often do you need to buy a book? i go about once a month, buy 3-5 of them (or more), load them up. Dec 16 15:38:25 or utilize public transportation more. Dec 16 15:38:32 <`vip> honestly, i buy a book about every other day Dec 16 15:38:35 <`vip> either me or my wife Dec 16 15:38:40 "omg i'm gonna run out of book and be completely away form all forms of internet access" Dec 16 15:38:46 another great thing with kindle is that you can view the first chapter or two from every book Dec 16 15:38:46 * Disconnect must read longer books :) Dec 16 15:38:48 <`vip> and my daughter is learning to read, she's in kindergarten Dec 16 15:39:04 i would not bring a cybook near a toddler, see above re fragile :/ Dec 16 15:39:04 <`vip> so she brings home a book every day Dec 16 15:39:06 <`vip> from school Dec 16 15:39:08 well i know if i am to read the book def comes from the library Dec 16 15:39:21 ill grab like 20 different samples from books wirelessly and have them to read on a plane Dec 16 15:39:26 oh don't forget that the mobi drm allows for lending libraries.. Dec 16 15:40:20 bojangles Dec 16 15:40:29 yes? Dec 16 15:40:37 plus theres free book sweekly on amazon.com :) Dec 16 15:41:09 i just couldnt pay for a kindle and then pay for books Dec 16 15:41:20 okay Dec 16 15:41:22 when the library has same books for free Dec 16 15:41:25 good to know Dec 16 15:41:42 theres free books as well... Dec 16 15:41:46 you dont have to buy from amazon Dec 16 15:42:29 its so cold my brakes are stuck to the disks Dec 16 15:42:33 not cool Dec 16 15:42:39 <`vip> where do you live ... wtf Dec 16 15:42:39 <`vip> :l Dec 16 15:42:40 its like 20 out Dec 16 15:42:44 seattle Dec 16 15:42:52 only 17 outside here... Dec 16 15:42:53 7 degrees here in Chicago Dec 16 15:42:54 <`vip> oh yeah thats right Dec 16 15:43:00 we got some "artic air" Dec 16 15:43:03 <`vip> think we were talking about seahawks before Dec 16 15:43:09 17C, that is - at almost midnight! Dec 16 15:43:14 * Disconnect doesn't have to buy from any one vendor at all. (i've got 3 or 4 bookstores i generally use) or of course baen free library or http://www.libwise.com/servlet/mw?t=booklist&li=33 Dec 16 15:43:51 fictionwise has quite a lot of unDRMed stuff, alongside the locked things Dec 16 15:43:51 too cold Dec 16 15:43:54 disc: thats really cool Dec 16 15:44:01 usually doesnt get below 35 Dec 16 15:44:40 thats not my favorite library, just the one i could find a link for :) they are mostly short stories and such. Dec 16 15:44:56 and since the cybook is offline-only there is no "check back in early" - if you check it out for a week, it stays for a week Dec 16 15:44:57 im in kc, its snowing fairly hard, we are expecting 3-6 inches Dec 16 15:45:26 we'll be lucky to see any snow here Dec 16 15:45:31 apparently were getting 3-6 tonight Dec 16 15:45:39 and then some more tomorrow Dec 16 15:45:46 nice Dec 16 15:45:49 leaving tomorrow for LA Dec 16 15:45:53 we were 68 and misting last night. but they're expecting it to freeze and really f up tonight. Dec 16 15:45:56 so not too concearned Dec 16 15:46:07 Disconnect: that library *is* fictionwise... weirdly Dec 16 15:46:15 disco where are you? Dec 16 15:46:21 wash dc Dec 16 15:46:24 Leeds: er? Dec 16 15:46:25 oh Dec 16 15:46:28 oh. yah ;) Dec 16 15:47:32 is there an embeddable browser widget? Dec 16 15:47:37 sure Dec 16 15:47:47 mymapseditor is shit Dec 16 15:48:00 pisses me right off Dec 16 15:48:00 isnt that the google app? Dec 16 15:48:05 ya Dec 16 15:48:18 Leeds: was that in response to me? Dec 16 15:48:23 sharvil: yes Dec 16 15:48:24 slap some google employees here. you'll feel better Dec 16 15:48:29 you cant even set a drop pin bassed on an address Dec 16 15:48:31 :P Dec 16 15:48:44 sweet, thanks. Dec 16 15:48:55 only by your current location or just dropone Dec 16 15:49:03 sharvil: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html Dec 16 15:49:08 no address lookup capabilities at all Dec 16 15:50:06 scoreboard is nice Dec 16 15:50:24 and the cam sucks on the g1 so picasa is pointless for me Dec 16 15:51:04 so ya /rant Dec 16 15:51:29 morning Dec 16 15:51:33 So I have a power question Dec 16 15:51:36 Mornin SanMeHat Dec 16 15:51:41 morning Dec 16 15:51:45 Can anyone explain how to fix the "SQLiteDatabase created and never closed" error on the database? Where should I be calling db.close? Dec 16 15:51:49 Does it take more power to leave wifi on, or to leave 3G idling? Dec 16 15:51:55 Does 3G stay on regardless of wifi? Dec 16 15:51:58 krstnsn` i've got to believe that the poor cam performance is software side and hopefully will be fixed soon. Dec 16 15:52:04 it takes more power to leave wifi on. Dec 16 15:52:12 brocktice_afk: 3G (or 2G) always stays on, or the phone won't work Dec 16 15:52:26 Leeds, Isn't the GSM radio separate from the 3G radio? Dec 16 15:52:51 Or do phone calls go over either? Dec 16 15:52:59 no idea... my point is that in normal operation, the wifi may come and go, but GSM stays on all the time, or you won't be able to get calls Dec 16 15:53:27 Leeds, okay, but I assume that active 3G usage takes more power than at idel. Dec 16 15:53:29 idle Dec 16 15:53:35 sure Dec 16 15:54:11 * Leeds is not an expert in radios, 3G, GSM or the G1 hardware :-) Dec 16 15:54:41 It seemed like it'd be better to leave wifi on when I'm at home (where I also work), but after thinking about it, perhaps it's better to just toggle it on if I'm going to be doing heavy data usage. Dec 16 15:54:44 3g turns off at wifi connection edge however will comeon Dec 16 15:56:14 Krstnsn`: really? it doesn't do 3G and wifi at the same time? /me has no 3G Dec 16 15:57:02 i can only assume not. if i loose wifi signal the E appears in the box Dec 16 15:57:08 not 3G Dec 16 15:57:14 I've had wifi for data and umts for voice at the same time Dec 16 15:57:33 so no, wifi does not turn 3g off Dec 16 15:57:52 Krstnsn`: When wifi goes away it will activate the cell data connection... it could be E... or could be 3G... Dec 16 15:58:02 Fredbo: you can do that in edge also. Dec 16 15:58:25 yes Dec 16 15:58:48 nothing to do with 3g being on or off Dec 16 15:59:40 but having a wifi connection does not automatically turn 3g off Dec 16 15:59:43 that was the question Dec 16 16:00:31 I know its possible to have both on at the same time Dec 16 16:00:37 ..right. and the ability to use voice while on wifi doesn't have anything to do with 3g beign on or off. Dec 16 16:00:39 thats why its possible to set up a wifi fether Dec 16 16:01:05 you can't use voice and 3G/GPRS at the same time because they use the same circuit Dec 16 16:01:05 fwiw testing right now, when it gets wifi it drops the connection to 3g (rmnet0 goes down) Dec 16 16:01:11 but voice and wifi at the same time should be possible Dec 16 16:01:13 Foxdie: 3g lets you use voice and data Dec 16 16:01:23 not from my experience Dec 16 16:02:00 example, if I'm connected to a ssh server and I go on a voice call, when the call ends, the SSH connection has died, and keepalive is turned on Dec 16 16:02:05 Foxdie: then you're experience is edge, not 3g. thats how the whitepages app works - it uses the 3g data connection to look up the incoming phone number. only works in 3g/wifi. Dec 16 16:03:12 3g turns off at wifi connection edge however will comeon <--- was the statement I was refuting Dec 16 16:03:27 hmm, sure its not the other way around? I've never been able to use both voice and 3G data on numerous phones (not just the G1) in the UK on various networks Dec 16 16:03:32 maybe they do things differently over here, I'm not sure Dec 16 16:03:38 right, gf has gone to bed, time to go to mcdonalds :-) Dec 16 16:03:43 Leeds: hahahaha Dec 16 16:03:45 but I used to work for vodafone Dec 16 16:03:50 Leeds, lol! Dec 16 16:04:22 umts supports a voice call while using data, edge does not Dec 16 16:04:24 Foxdie: you need a plain UMTS connection, that's not possible with the more advanced HSDPA (which is data-only). Dec 16 16:04:35 2g and 3g both use rmnet0.. so i can say definitively on the g1 that when wifi is up, 2g/3g is down. Dec 16 16:04:47 moin. Dec 16 16:05:06 2g and 3g are not just data Dec 16 16:05:07 that nullifies any tethering apps that "claim" to do that Dec 16 16:05:09 Disconnect: in general, yeah, when wifi is up, the IP net layer is disconnected from the cell link layer. Dec 16 16:05:10 (haven't tried them yet) Dec 16 16:05:44 Disconnect: that can be overridden, though, e.g. MMS turns on data over cell even when wifi is connected. Dec 16 16:06:01 Foxdie: you're leaping to conclusions so fast i can't even begin to keep up. the 'apps' that do wifi tethering with an ad-hoc network do it outside the android framework. so they just bring up the interface and configure it.. Dec 16 16:06:04 whether you are in 3g vs 2g can affect voice usage as well Dec 16 16:06:11 ahhh! Dec 16 16:06:16 so its the framework that does it Dec 16 16:06:28 having a wifi connection does not "turn 3g off and 2g on" Dec 16 16:06:29 ..its the framework that does everything. Dec 16 16:06:30 I believed you was trying to say it was a hardware limitation, sorry :) Dec 16 16:06:57 I'll get my coat. Dec 16 16:07:01 having a wifi connection will turn the cellular data line off Dec 16 16:07:02 nope. its just a pile of network interfaces. (hw - or rather, signaling - prevents voice+2g data) Dec 16 16:09:09 http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-368288.html has a little more info on the 3g/voice thing (without huge technical unverifiable messes :) ..) Dec 16 16:09:29 and at&t has it as a bullet point, strangely enough. http://www.wireless.att.com/businesscenter/business-programs/government/technology/voice-data.jsp .. and i'll stop now :) Dec 16 16:10:45 so cold Dec 16 16:15:57 marix_work: its ok.. the ambulance is on the way.. just hold on a whle longer... Dec 16 16:21:57 This DatabaseOpenHelper thing is unclear. I don't understand why in onCreate(db) the db has an IllegalStateException "SQLiteDatabase created and never closed". I haven't explicitly opened it, and I don't know where I need to close it. The google, it does nothing. Dec 16 16:22:59 Could it be that the very first time your DB was created something went wrong and the file is now in an unusable state? Dec 16 16:23:34 jbq, that's possible, but I've tried uninstalling the app. I assume that deletes the db as well? Dec 16 16:24:26 yes, it should. Well, it should be easy to check at app startup whether the file exists at all. Dec 16 16:25:23 yes, that is easy easy, but then what? Dec 16 16:25:42 delete it and recreate it? Dec 16 16:27:28 OMG .. hahahahaha Dec 16 16:27:35 who like Big Bang Theory? Dec 16 16:27:37 Disconnect: you joke... a few years ago, I called myself an ambulance because I was ill - and I knew I was too ill to drive myself to hospital... the only people who knew were my mates on IRC Dec 16 16:27:46 likes* Dec 16 16:27:50 hmm, how can I stop arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc trying to find libz.h in /usr/lib when I've told it its in /usr/local/g1/lib ? Dec 16 16:28:11 Does anybody watch The Big Bang Theory show? Dec 16 16:28:24 ttuttle: I got an email back from the locale people. They claim to only check the location once every ten minutes. If this is true, it would appear the wifi disconnect and immediate reconnect issue is a bug in the wifi and/or location manager Dec 16 16:28:35 yuck. I just uninstalled my app, and the FIRST TIME it gets to the onCreate in the OpenDatabaseHelper it's still giving me the same error. Dec 16 16:28:59 foxdie: ugly solution. rename /usr/lib and make a symlink? Dec 16 16:29:28 Foxdie: check your -I Dec 16 16:29:29 it's on a mOpenHelper.getWritableDatabase(); in the insert() method of my content provider Dec 16 16:29:31 definitely not the "correct" way to do it... :0 Dec 16 16:29:44 JF Dec 16 16:30:13 there's ugly and then there's lindsay lohans pubic lice Dec 16 16:30:22 * JesusFreke agrees Dec 16 16:30:32 renaming /usr/lib is quite comparable :) Dec 16 16:30:38 * JesusFreke agrees Dec 16 16:30:46 I can feel the hair on the back of my neck stand on end Dec 16 16:31:07 Disconnect, this is what I'm running; Dec 16 16:31:17 Anyway, I'm off to work :) Dec 16 16:31:24 gl foxdie! :) Dec 16 16:31:39 ./configure --disable-syslog --with-zlib=/usr/local/g1/includes/ Dec 16 16:31:39 make PROGRAMS="dropbear dbclient dropbearkey dropbearconvert scp" MULTI=1 STATIC=1 ARCH=armel CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi- Dec 16 16:31:51 thanks JF, have a nice day at work Dec 16 16:31:59 * Foxdie is about 30 mins away from freedom ^_^ Dec 16 16:33:32 any ideas Disconnect ? Dec 16 16:33:36 or anyone else? ^_^ Dec 16 16:33:37 foxdie, i just purchased you from your captors, you;ll be workign for me now!!!! Dec 16 16:33:53 ooh, what form of slavery will I be doing now? Dec 16 16:34:07 the cuddly kind! Dec 16 16:34:21 the best kind! Dec 16 16:35:50 do I know you by the way? not like a typical android stranger to buy me from my employers and turn me into an affectionslave.. Dec 16 16:35:55 only 3 days till 3g gets turned on in kc, i can't wait to charge this thing 2x as often. Dec 16 16:36:14 foxdie, i don't believe so Dec 16 16:36:28 oh okay, well, nice to meet you Dec 16 16:36:35 why hallow thar Dec 16 16:36:58 oh dear, the lolcats are coming! Dec 16 16:37:08 * Foxdie returns to his hole in the ceiling Dec 16 16:37:31 i think thats pre lolcat Dec 16 16:37:46 my roommate used to answer the phone that way in 2002 Dec 16 16:37:55 how old are thelolcats? Dec 16 16:37:58 its like the godfather of lolcats Dec 16 16:38:09 complete with coat over its shoulders Dec 16 16:38:13 and a speech impediment Dec 16 16:38:39 hmmm, you almost made me type "adb lolcat" Dec 16 16:38:51 bah, must stop letting my crazy imagination rule me, it'll be 5pm before I know it, and I've yet to do any actual work today :) Dec 16 16:39:04 its 4:40pm already >:) Dec 16 16:39:15 jbq: adb lolcat is wayyyy better Dec 16 16:39:17 (and, crazily enough, adb lolcat is now recognized as an alias for adb logcat) Dec 16 16:39:33 oh dear god Dec 16 16:39:37 haha <3 Dec 16 16:39:38 google devs, you have cursed us all Dec 16 16:39:58 * Foxdie shakes a rake at the sky Dec 16 16:40:10 well, at least we don't have it rewrite the log in lolcat... which would be a fun exercise, though. Dec 16 16:40:27 haha Dec 16 16:40:29 lmao Dec 16 16:40:42 I can just imagine that on an apache log Dec 16 16:40:43 everytime i see lolcat i think it says logcat Dec 16 16:41:02 "I CAN HAS /index.php PLZ, IMMA CURNECTING FRUM 10.0.0.1" Dec 16 16:41:22 i have a google apps account and a google account tied to the google apps account =S, witch one will get linked to my g1 when i activate with my google apps account? Dec 16 16:41:31 * jbq iz in ur fonz donlodin ur filz Dec 16 16:41:40 Foxdie, are you writing a browser in lolcode? Dec 16 16:41:45 uh Dec 16 16:42:03 your google apps account and google acount should be the same Dec 16 16:42:09 are they dif gmails? Dec 16 16:42:37 same email but i want my google apps gmail linked to the account =) Dec 16 16:42:41 FFForever, noooo it must stop x.x Dec 16 16:42:54 im confused Dec 16 16:43:02 if its the same email.... Dec 16 16:43:04 okokok focus Dec 16 16:43:15 its the same account Dec 16 16:43:25 how can I get arm-linux-gnueabi-ld to use the right libz.h ? Dec 16 16:43:42 lolcat Dec 16 16:43:45 FFForever it will use which ever one you enter Dec 16 16:44:08 you know what'd be even funnier than lolcat? a bot in this channel with ops that kicked anyone that misspelt logcat as lolcat ;) Dec 16 16:44:49 ive got a fever. and the only cure is more goog Dec 16 16:45:39 * bert0 offers Krstnsn' some buckleys Dec 16 16:46:06 my baby is hard at sleep Dec 16 16:47:17 Well time to head to work Dec 16 16:50:52 just scored some pretty slick deals at target on video games Dec 16 16:51:04 jbq, I remember when a friend of mine re-coded Seagate Backup Exec in lolcat. Dec 16 16:51:04 <_zippy> hm - what games? Dec 16 16:51:13 sure made it more interesting Dec 16 16:51:33 smackdown vs raw 09 for $30, ratchet and clank tools of destruction for $15, and guitar hero aerosmith for $12 Dec 16 16:51:49 Disconnect, any ideas mate? Dec 16 16:51:57 my -I definately points to the right folder Dec 16 16:52:21 <_zippy> hmmm Dec 16 16:52:41 <_zippy> i saw "nfl 08 headcoach" for $5... or something along those lines Dec 16 16:52:49 <_zippy> and was puzzled as to what "headcoach" ment... Dec 16 16:52:50 jasta Dec 16 16:52:50 the guitar hero game i might return or sell if it doesnt work with my rock band guitar Dec 16 16:52:56 i cant get five to finish syncing Dec 16 16:53:03 yeah there is a bug with that Dec 16 16:53:04 it gets to about 1200 then goes back to the main five sync page Dec 16 16:53:08 <_zippy> do you have ps3 or xbox360? Dec 16 16:53:11 ps3 Dec 16 16:53:12 "home, never synchronized" Dec 16 16:53:15 <_zippy> it won't work ;\ Dec 16 16:53:27 :( i thought i read somewhere that there were supposed to be patches Dec 16 16:53:38 <_zippy> rockband controllers dont work with gh and the same reversed Dec 16 16:53:41 d0netsFN: i dont have any time to work on it right now, but over the holidays i will have that fixed Dec 16 16:53:53 k Dec 16 16:53:56 <_zippy> rockband was issueing a patch, but gh complained Dec 16 16:53:59 lame :( Dec 16 16:54:01 <_zippy> so the patch is in limbo Dec 16 16:54:15 forget I said that Dec 16 16:54:15 <_zippy> hah, very - as i bought gh for the controller thinking it was like the 360 ;) Dec 16 16:54:24 I added the libs folder, not just hte include folder, it built :O Dec 16 16:54:42 ooooooh, excitement buildin Dec 16 16:54:48 just got rock band 2 yesterday at toys r us, 110$ and it includes a $25 gift card Dec 16 16:54:53 crap, 5 mins to test this Dec 16 16:55:00 <_zippy> ahhh nice Dec 16 16:55:06 <_zippy> COD5 is a pretty good game Dec 16 16:55:20 <_zippy> i havn't justified a reason to get rb2, since rb1 isn't broken or anything Dec 16 16:55:28 world at war? Dec 16 16:55:33 <_zippy> yes Dec 16 16:55:39 my justification was "its such a good deal" and its wireless Dec 16 16:55:41 i liked the soviet missions more than the american ones Dec 16 16:55:51 but it was a typical ww2 game Dec 16 16:55:51 _zippy: great game Dec 16 16:55:52 nothing new Dec 16 16:55:59 i love it on pc Dec 16 16:56:01 <_zippy> jerkface03: the very last mission, storming the... whatever it's called, was a pain Dec 16 16:56:10 ive been playing left 4 dead lately on pc Dec 16 16:56:44 <_zippy> there must be some glitch in that level, i got to the very end and killed nearly everyone, but the NPC never activated the scripted scenes Dec 16 16:57:13 <_zippy> jerkface03: the nazi zombies is always fun too :) Dec 16 16:57:16 fadden: Are you here/alive? If so, I recall you mentioning something a while back that would leave a core file if a program segfaulted. Am I remembering right? And if so, do you recall what that wasS? Dec 16 16:57:20 *was Dec 16 16:57:24 ya nazi zombies was pretty cool Dec 16 16:57:25 but still Dec 16 16:57:28 cod4 was more fun :) Dec 16 16:57:49 <_zippy> eh, to each their own Dec 16 16:57:59 BlindOracle: hmm, does sound like a bug. are you up to writing a minimal test case? Dec 16 16:58:14 ttuttle: if you know this one, feel free to jump in too : ) Dec 16 16:58:40 vol: sorry, I've been away from the terminal, lemme catch up. Dec 16 16:59:02 it's only 5 lines up :P Dec 16 16:59:06 ooh Dec 16 16:59:13 does my g1 have to be rooted to use Tetherbot? Dec 16 16:59:21 vol: I'm on a g1. brb Dec 16 16:59:28 oh, nvm Dec 16 16:59:48 well, if anyone else has an idea what this is, I'd be happy to know : ) Dec 16 17:00:26 vol: ulimit? Dec 16 17:01:05 _zippy: it's actually been a good year for pc games this year Dec 16 17:01:06 ttuttle: maybe, how would I set it? Dec 16 17:01:14 and where is the segfault pood Dec 16 17:01:23 s/segfault/corefile/ Dec 16 17:01:24 _zippy: i've only played a handful of games, fo3, ds, cod5, but they've all been great Dec 16 17:01:40 ttuttle: I submitted a bug report - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1546&sort=-id&colspec=ID Type Version Security Status Owner Summary Dec 16 17:01:50 vol: on the g1? Dec 16 17:02:05 vol: it's dumped in the working directory, iirc. Dec 16 17:02:29 <_zippy> jerkface03: i've played the naruto game, it's a pretty solid fighter, and so is soul caliber too Dec 16 17:02:30 do i have to have Apache Ant for the sdk btw? Dec 16 17:03:05 _zippy: what platform are those on? i haven't seen them for PC Dec 16 17:03:11 <_zippy> ahh - ps3 ;) Dec 16 17:03:26 i've only played 1 game for the ps3 Dec 16 17:03:27 <_zippy> i don't play much on the pc now, mainly live in linux land :D Dec 16 17:03:28 little big planet Dec 16 17:03:31 BEST GAME EVER Dec 16 17:03:34 <_zippy> haha Dec 16 17:03:37 <_zippy> i've heard good things Dec 16 17:04:02 _zippy: mostly from nerds. Dec 16 17:04:06 ;-) Dec 16 17:04:10 FFForever: you don't need root to use Tetherbot Dec 16 17:04:22 kcoury, thanks =) Dec 16 17:04:33 you need root to use tethering over bluetooth. Dec 16 17:04:59 anyone know of a deb (for ubuntu) to install the sdk? Dec 16 17:04:59 no problem Dec 16 17:05:11 ttuttle: wonderful, thanks. This is for apps that get started by intents, not just compiled binaries that I run, right? Dec 16 17:05:18 Also, where would I set ulimit? Dec 16 17:05:50 vol: oh, i dunno Dec 16 17:06:38 vol: wait, did you get a *java* app to segfault? Dec 16 17:06:51 oh no. Dec 16 17:07:01 We have a C++ library that we load Dec 16 17:07:05 THAT segfaults once in a while Dec 16 17:07:15 so instead of attaching gdb every single time, I'd rather just have a nice core file to look at Dec 16 17:07:51 vol who is we XD Dec 16 17:08:06 we is my company : ) Dec 16 17:08:18 <_zippy> i.e. - Microsoft! Dec 16 17:08:20 * _zippy gaps Dec 16 17:08:21 disclosure requirements mean I can't say who is we : ( Dec 16 17:08:23 vol ur company gives u g1's? Dec 16 17:08:37 well, not per se. they're the company's devices Dec 16 17:08:41 vol we = company is good enough, we could just be friends XD Dec 16 17:08:49 and I actually preordered mine (and don't want to write it off, since then the VP can just take it and play with it) Dec 16 17:08:53 vol but for you to use is still cool XD Dec 16 17:09:05 vol that sucks..... Dec 16 17:09:15 anyway Dec 16 17:09:26 I'm more than happy to have paid for it, I've been developing apps on my personal time Dec 16 17:09:31 I have a half-finished Go client Dec 16 17:09:38 Go? Dec 16 17:09:54 vol what apps have you written? Dec 16 17:09:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(board_game) Dec 16 17:10:06 nothing on the marketplace Dec 16 17:10:18 I've written a few trivial proof of concept apps that no one has ever seen :P Dec 16 17:10:29 vol, i like poc's Dec 16 17:10:38 I like ice cream Dec 16 17:10:42 what do you mean by poc's Dec 16 17:10:47 oh Dec 16 17:10:49 proof of concept Dec 16 17:10:51 * vol smacks forhead Dec 16 17:10:52 why did google pick java and not raw c++ or objc like apple? Dec 16 17:10:58 ice cream is good Dec 16 17:11:05 <_zippy> it's "safe" Dec 16 17:11:07 java is tasty Dec 16 17:11:14 FFForever: security is easier when part of it is enforced by the runtime. Dec 16 17:11:22 FFForever: also people prefer it to c++. Dec 16 17:11:24 you can put flavoring in java and add whipped cream on top Dec 16 17:11:30 blau-MikeDG: I can host a little app that uses the OrientationListener to show a "level" line, if that will whet your appetite Dec 16 17:11:30 ttuttle, true but java is pure EVIL Dec 16 17:11:41 <_zippy> kRut0n: whipped topping in java? thats insanity Dec 16 17:11:48 FFForever: java doesn't segfault like our C libraries Dec 16 17:12:00 vol so write it in java? Dec 16 17:12:01 exceptions are packaged in nice little pundles Dec 16 17:12:08 _zippy: Well, it just sits on top. I guess it might mix in if you don't consume it fast enough. Dec 16 17:12:14 FFForever: we don't want to duplicate man-decades of work for an android port. Dec 16 17:12:22 <_zippy> lol Dec 16 17:12:46 java has the most fun null pointer exceptions Dec 16 17:12:55 * _zippy shivers Dec 16 17:13:00 also, any new code we would write would have to be duplicated to java Dec 16 17:13:02 FFForever: yeah, but everything is evil Dec 16 17:13:10 it just doesn't make sense to have a seperate java solution Dec 16 17:13:11 i wonder if i use jython if i can still link to java libs and functions XD Dec 16 17:13:12 You can't say "Hello World".equals(input) in C++ Dec 16 17:13:36 <_zippy> kRut0n: is that why C++ is better? ;) Dec 16 17:13:43 FFForever: I think there was a problem with introspection and Jython, but I don't know for sure. Dec 16 17:13:51 you cant say "GOOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGGOGO".toLower() in C++ Dec 16 17:13:57 <_zippy> lol Dec 16 17:13:57 introspection? Dec 16 17:14:15 blau-MikeDG, but u can in python Dec 16 17:14:31 Oh wait, here it is: http://code.google.com/p/jythonroid/ Dec 16 17:14:34 yeah, i was trying to find some info on whether Jython/JRuby had been ported yet, does anyone know of any projects using it? Dec 16 17:14:39 That sounds like a medical problem.. jythonroid Dec 16 17:14:50 kRutOn, wow, you answered before i asked, thanks! Dec 16 17:15:05 LMAO kRutOn Dec 16 17:15:25 blau-MikeDG: http://volmari.as/android/OrientationListenerTest.apk Dec 16 17:15:35 what is adb? Dec 16 17:15:45 9k of Pure Power (and a way to tell my coworker that the OrientationListener is NOT a compass) Dec 16 17:19:50 why did google write a barcode reader? Dec 16 17:20:05 why wouldn't they? Dec 16 17:20:09 2d barcodes = :> Dec 16 17:20:12 waste of time? Dec 16 17:20:14 <_zippy> vol: nice site ahahah Dec 16 17:20:36 thanks, haven't updated it in a year or two Dec 16 17:20:42 I just use it as a file dump lately Dec 16 17:21:01 <_zippy> the mistaken email is quiet... interesting Dec 16 17:21:07 how do you think I felt? Dec 16 17:21:26 <_zippy> is it odd to know i'd had interesting emails almost exactly like that? Dec 16 17:21:36 I'm not too surprised Dec 16 17:21:55 <_zippy> lol Dec 16 17:21:58 anyway, before we got distracted Dec 16 17:22:04 ttuttle: how would I go about setting ulimit? Dec 16 17:22:04 can i scan a ups package and get all of the data from that? Dec 16 17:22:04 <_zippy> ah, sorry - go on :) Dec 16 17:22:12 FFForever: if it's encoded in the 2d barcode... Dec 16 17:22:15 FFForever: "all the data" is a number. Dec 16 17:22:31 Disconnect, ohhh =( Dec 16 17:24:53 hmm, so the blackberry curve charger DOES work with the G1. Dec 16 17:24:53 nice ;-) Dec 16 17:25:28 <_zippy> doh! Dec 16 17:25:34 <_zippy> vending.apk won't install still Dec 16 17:25:37 <_zippy> grrr Dec 16 17:25:45 do u think the g1 can rival with the black berry (including the new storm) Dec 16 17:25:59 the new storm isn't _that_ great Dec 16 17:26:16 ive never seen/used it so i dunno Dec 16 17:26:37 hell ive never used the g1 but the youtube videos look amazing and when it gets on screen keys it will be even better =D Dec 16 17:26:41 I think w/ the right kind of marketing, android can be the all around device, crossing all lines Dec 16 17:27:00 i havent played with the blackberry but i dont get how it can be that great Dec 16 17:27:06 is it compatable with old blackberry apps? Dec 16 17:27:15 whereas currently it seems to be marketed to the stingy trendy crowd Dec 16 17:27:28 Can I use the Intent.ACTION_PICK with the MediaStore to get the images for a single bucket/bucket_id? Dec 16 17:27:39 blau-MikeDG: I have no idea as to compatibility, but it's definitely weird clicking the screeen Dec 16 17:27:42 -e Dec 16 17:27:56 summatusmentis, its not all that weird.... Dec 16 17:28:04 FFForever, everything I've heard about the storm has been negative. I haven't gotten a chance to play with one yet though. Dec 16 17:28:24 the new os update help alot Dec 16 17:28:26 i havent gotten a chance to play with one because verizon screwed the launch up so bad Dec 16 17:28:26 FFForever: it was for me. I'm used to touch screens being just that Dec 16 17:28:35 Could someone tell me the right URI for the conversations list ? Dec 16 17:28:36 lines out the doors of all their stores that weekend Dec 16 17:28:41 because they only let like 5 people in Dec 16 17:28:49 anno: mms-sms/conversations i thought Dec 16 17:29:01 there is a clicker under the screen and u have to actually push the screen in to lock in the touch =\ Dec 16 17:29:10 right, and it's weird Dec 16 17:29:19 although i havent been able to find the senders name or anything if its an mms Dec 16 17:29:28 but i think i just dont understand mms yet Dec 16 17:29:34 blau-MikeDG: testest content://mms-sms/conversations/ but it crashes the message app Dec 16 17:29:48 also, you reach a critical typing speed, I hate that you have to push down, and let off before you can push down again Dec 16 17:29:57 with the view action Dec 16 17:30:31 what is the best media player for the android? Dec 16 17:32:06 FFForever: youtube Dec 16 17:32:37 i mean like for mpg, avi, mp3, etc Dec 16 17:33:26 is mplayer on android yet? (I'm stuck w/out android till sprint gets it) Dec 16 17:34:04 summatusmentis, the g1 does not have a cdma modem? Dec 16 17:34:35 no Dec 16 17:34:39 the 3g has finally been unlocked XD took them long enough XD Dec 16 17:34:48 the g1 is only for t-mobile currently Dec 16 17:35:15 well, that's what happens when you're playing cat and mouse w/ apple Dec 16 17:35:31 summatusmentis, google sells the g1 unlocked and unbranded XD Dec 16 17:35:41 btw can i remove the branding by tmobile? Dec 16 17:35:44 ttuttle: FWIW, the android security model seems to make almost no reliance on the JVM. It's all process/filesystem based. The only java-side feature I can think of is the application permissions thing, but that's pretty trivially escapable with native code. Dec 16 17:35:45 well, yeah, that's not g1, that's adp1 :-D Dec 16 17:36:21 lol Dec 16 17:36:34 summatusmentis, what is the difference u guys don't get the $200 off? Dec 16 17:36:58 right, the g1 is t-mobile branded, and subsidized by t-mobile Dec 16 17:37:14 also, flash-locked, and sim-locked, iirc Dec 16 17:37:21 flash-locked? Dec 16 17:37:33 the sim lock is no major problem =D Dec 16 17:37:47 can't flash a new os, or boot another os, because it's locked Dec 16 17:37:58 summatusmentis, so i cant upgrade? Dec 16 17:38:03 the adp1 has a bootloader, can have a new os flashed Dec 16 17:38:20 you can upgrade, but only by to updates provided by google/t-mobile Dec 16 17:38:31 that are signed w/ the right key, etc. Dec 16 17:38:34 who seeds the updates tmobile or google? Dec 16 17:38:40 Not strictly true, as long as you root the phone before the RC30 update. Dec 16 17:39:00 andyross: well, ok, but anymore, I assume all phones are selling w/ the RC30 update? Dec 16 17:39:43 Not sure. Evidence is sketchy, but I still haven't heard the converse: all reports of new phones so far are with pre-RC30 firmware. Stuff takes a while to get through the production channels sometimes. Dec 16 17:40:12 hmm Dec 16 17:40:20 FFForever: I stand corrected, partially Dec 16 17:40:45 summatusmentis, XD Dec 16 17:40:53 FFForever: the updates come from a google server, so presumably they're running the process. No doubt with approval from T-Mobile for whatever goes onto a G1. Dec 16 17:41:23 when tmobile dumps the g1 for a newer phone will google also dump it? Dec 16 17:41:29 tmob provides bins, htc signs them, google distributes them.. Dec 16 17:41:40 that sucks Dec 16 17:41:55 why does htc sign them? Dec 16 17:42:03 FFForever: yes, as soon as a new phone comes out google is going to ship an image that has a frowny-android and say "Sorry, you must upgrade to a newer handset to continue making calls." Dec 16 17:42:04 has to, it's HTCs bootloader Dec 16 17:42:13 why not just google bins -> google sign -> google seed XD Dec 16 17:42:36 not "has to" - the bootlaoder could bundle any signatures - but htc has a proven history of keeping that sort of thing protected. Dec 16 17:42:41 summatusmentis, google didn't write the boot loader =\ Dec 16 17:43:14 Disconnect: well, for all intents and purposes, since HTC keeps it protected, THC has to sign them Dec 16 17:43:19 HTC* Dec 16 17:43:38 dude.. if they were THC signed... Dec 16 17:43:43 if i root the phone i could in theory convert it from a g1 to a adp1 right? Dec 16 17:43:54 right, that is my point. but the bootloader coudl be built with any keys. all it takes is tmob saying "ok here are the public keys for the spl" and then tmob holds it. but thats risky, since they'll prolly leak eventually. Dec 16 17:44:04 FFForever: you've asked that before. Dec 16 17:44:06 ah Dec 16 17:44:07 spl? Dec 16 17:44:10 ffforever: yup Dec 16 17:44:41 i didn't see the response? Dec 16 17:45:13 FFForever: we had a whole discussion on it Dec 16 17:45:26 bloody ubuntu =(, i cant have more then 1 app playing sound =( i need to change to alsa =\ Dec 16 17:45:28 replace the spl, get the unlock code, flash the update.zip Dec 16 17:45:53 ohhh yeah whoops XD Dec 16 17:46:00 and mebi get a nock off back cover from ebay :-p Dec 16 17:46:06 i am amazed i remember yesterday =D Dec 16 17:46:27 i like the back cover on the adp1 =) Dec 16 17:59:00 what's the best way to install an APK in the emulator? Dec 16 17:59:11 adb install works Dec 16 17:59:12 just fine Dec 16 18:00:05 from the terminal? Dec 16 18:02:30 ahh, I see, I didn't know about adb. Dec 16 18:02:34 Useful, that. Dec 16 18:08:33 vc// c/ /''cvvc Dec 16 18:08:34 'v Dec 16 18:10:53 ...ok Dec 16 18:13:27 that was my daughter Dec 16 18:16:00 it's all disconnect's fault Dec 16 18:16:06 of course Dec 16 18:16:43 DarkriftX: how old is she? Dec 16 18:16:52 disconnect is your daughter? Dec 16 18:16:53 1 Dec 16 18:16:54 lol Dec 16 18:16:59 Some Google guys here that can tell me the right Uri for the VIEW action of the messaging app for all messages in my inbox. Someone MUST know that :D. I'm searching since 1h in the sources but nothing works. Dec 16 18:17:05 and she knows Yacc/Bison already? Dec 16 18:17:27 lol Dec 16 18:17:37 she knows bash Dec 16 18:17:43 its where you bash the keys and see what comes out Dec 16 18:17:55 hehe Dec 16 18:18:01 smoke? Dec 16 18:19:36 hopefully not Dec 16 18:19:53 my laptop would have great uptime if it werent for her Dec 16 18:20:11 you should put a screensaver of a scary monster on there Dec 16 18:20:24 lol Dec 16 18:20:30 she would laugh Dec 16 18:20:53 welp back to work .. :P Dec 16 18:21:02 oh disconnect Dec 16 18:21:13 .. Have you see The Big Bang Theory TV show? Dec 16 18:21:29 as anybody here? baffles me nobody has Dec 16 18:21:44 any word on when the LenovoPhone is due to be released with Android?> Dec 16 18:23:33 ask Lenovo? Dec 16 18:23:49 bah :P Dec 16 18:23:52 later all Dec 16 18:24:41 lol Dec 16 18:27:57 i can't believe its 1:30pm alrady Dec 16 18:27:59 at least here Dec 16 18:28:06 and i'm feeling so unproductive Dec 16 18:28:07 :( Dec 16 18:31:58 do the newer g1's come with the mini usb to mini mic for head phones? Dec 16 18:33:39 ok i lol'd at the comments for opengl demo. Dec 16 18:34:12 "Paul: Why put things like this on the marketplace?? {1*}" "Ralph: @paul - because you touch yourself at night {4*}" Dec 16 18:34:33 wow.... Dec 16 18:39:40 I want busybox and a bunch of binaries on my android dev phone 1 - what's the best way? install it myself, run some hacky scripts, flash in a new image, etc.? Dec 16 18:40:23 jf's rc30 1.2 has most of that. well the busybox part. for "a bunch of binaries" .. it already has it. Dec 16 18:40:31 le sigh. googlephone is a crappy pda Dec 16 18:40:42 no decent todo list manager Dec 16 18:41:26 Disconnect: does the dev phone 1 firmware have anything the jf's rc30 1.2 doesn't have? Dec 16 18:41:39 Hadaka: http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/android-developer-phone-1 Dec 16 18:42:20 exit Dec 16 18:42:24 hrm ww Dec 16 18:44:53 Which of these would be best for an impatient beginner :D Dec 16 18:44:54 http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=android+development&x=0&y=0 Dec 16 18:45:39 nostferka, why are you impatient? Dec 16 18:45:50 waiting for the book to come in?, if so buy the pdf XD Dec 16 18:46:49 nostferka: the tutorials and online docs are free. and better. :) Dec 16 18:46:50 No, I'm impatient because I want to do awesome progs quickly Dec 16 18:47:03 Yeah, I've been looking through them Dec 16 18:47:16 hi all, anyone aware of an e-mail client which one can click on the URLs? Dec 16 18:47:17 Currently half way through the noteditor one Dec 16 18:47:26 gmail? Dec 16 18:47:51 nostferka, preferably other than that Dec 16 18:48:06 nostferka, I have a non-gmail e-mail address that I use Dec 16 18:48:17 is there any mail client built for android that is non-gmail? Dec 16 18:48:27 many Dec 16 18:48:36 email Dec 16 18:48:40 k9 Dec 16 18:48:42 FFForever, there are couple k9 and e-mail but they are not good Dec 16 18:48:44 it's called email Dec 16 18:48:58 d=( Dec 16 18:49:02 k9? Dec 16 18:49:19 isn't that what the schools use? Dec 16 18:49:23 no Dec 16 18:49:25 that's k12 Dec 16 18:49:36 i was thinking the same FFForever Dec 16 18:49:47 can I send e-mail from a non-gmail address if I use gmail? Dec 16 18:49:53 yes Dec 16 18:49:54 ohhhh =) Dec 16 18:49:55 yes you can Dec 16 18:50:00 k9 would most likely be a term used for a dog :S Dec 16 18:50:03 i use my yahoo email from gmail Dec 16 18:50:04 d;D Dec 16 18:50:08 as in canine Dec 16 18:50:08 right Dec 16 18:50:15 k9 is the drug sniffing dog Dec 16 18:50:25 d=( Dec 16 18:50:27 k9 is any dog Dec 16 18:50:33 right Dec 16 18:50:35 rin tin tin is my hero Dec 16 18:50:36 but cops cant spell, so they use k9 Dec 16 18:50:39 is google putting barriers for e-mail clients so that people would use gmail instead? Dec 16 18:50:40 MrJoePink, its also a piracy sniffing dog trained by the riaa lol Dec 16 18:50:41 but i know of k9's as the drug sniffing dogs Dec 16 18:50:49 word Dec 16 18:50:54 that's fucking crazy Dec 16 18:51:00 there are lots of useful tools but no useful e-mail clients Dec 16 18:51:15 orci, outlook express? Dec 16 18:51:19 the problems I had with k9 and email are exactly the same problems Dec 16 18:51:22 webmail ? Dec 16 18:51:27 what is the #1 app on the market you would pay $20 for right now if they all went paid? Dec 16 18:51:28 orci: they are from the same source Dec 16 18:51:30 goto the website in the browser Dec 16 18:51:33 and use the email Dec 16 18:51:35 from the web Dec 16 18:51:37 d;D Dec 16 18:51:43 that'd be what i would do Dec 16 18:51:52 sataniscool.com Dec 16 18:51:57 FFForever: maybe savvy shopper, beuacse in 2 weeks its already saved me $100 or so Dec 16 18:51:58 thaz my email Dec 16 18:51:59 d;D Dec 16 18:52:06 MrJoePink, that cannot ring my phone when an e-mail arrives Dec 16 18:52:17 i don't buy such things Dec 16 18:52:20 my phone never rings when i recieve a email Dec 16 18:52:31 DarkriftX, that is the app u take to the store scan the barcodes and it shows u local and online prices as well right? Dec 16 18:52:31 why would you want your phone to ring Dec 16 18:52:33 FFForever, I would not pay for a non-free application ever Dec 16 18:52:35 when you recieve an email? Dec 16 18:52:38 yes FFForever Dec 16 18:52:41 FFForever: depends entirely on who you ask and what they want. For me, it's ConnectBot. No question. Dec 16 18:52:43 i would have 1,000+ rings a day Dec 16 18:52:47 that would be irritating Dec 16 18:52:56 connectbot is awesome, but i find i dont use it as often as i thought i would Dec 16 18:52:57 And yes, I'd pay $20 for an ssh client if one weren't available free. Dec 16 18:53:13 its definately worth paying for though Dec 16 18:53:17 i'd pay $20 for a bootycall app Dec 16 18:53:25 one that just gave me numbers of girls near me Dec 16 18:53:29 to call for a bootycall Dec 16 18:53:34 MrJoePink: c.f. loopt Dec 16 18:53:37 they have that MrJoePink Dec 16 18:53:41 word Dec 16 18:53:45 its called Aids Alert Dec 16 18:53:46 wertago? Dec 16 18:53:47 loopt LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Dec 16 18:53:48 MrJoePink, I have several accounts one of which I'd like to ring my phone for Dec 16 18:53:49 mrjoepink, Dec 16 18:53:51 aids alert? Dec 16 18:53:52 d=( Dec 16 18:54:00 nothing the trojan man can't handle Dec 16 18:54:05 LOL Dec 16 18:54:12 i wouldnt risk it Dec 16 18:54:14 is there a way i can say only emails with the tag xxx alert me? Dec 16 18:54:24 if my little buddies can get through, so can hers Dec 16 18:54:28 lol Dec 16 18:54:48 TROY JEN MANG Dec 16 18:54:53 FFForever: no. A better/full-featured email client would probably be another example of a killer app I'd happily pay for. Dec 16 18:54:54 i have 2 condom babies and 2 birth control babies, 3 kids total, you do the math Dec 16 18:55:02 lol Dec 16 18:55:11 how many aids babies? Dec 16 18:55:12 4? Dec 16 18:55:17 none Dec 16 18:55:19 aww Dec 16 18:55:21 u sux Dec 16 18:55:22 d=( Dec 16 18:55:30 aids baby's > * Dec 16 18:55:48 they're like the gift that keeps on giving Dec 16 18:56:53 i get my internet from across the street its awesome XD Dec 16 18:57:15 bootycall app! Dec 16 18:57:19 i get my internot from the cable company Dec 16 18:57:21 ok this is beginning to be off-topic but can I use IMAP for non-gmail accounts that i associate with gmail? instead of POP Dec 16 18:57:21 whoops wrong room XD Dec 16 18:57:25 lol Dec 16 18:57:32 thats what i can build on google app engine! Dec 16 18:57:32 the radio is playing std c0mmercials Dec 16 18:57:41 condoms are the best protection from hiv Dec 16 18:57:44 and std's it says Dec 16 18:57:45 LOLz Dec 16 18:57:45 MrJoePink, my grandma lives across from us sadly we have to take care of her...... Dec 16 18:57:51 aww Dec 16 18:57:52 how hard is it to make an aim client that just owrks Dec 16 18:57:53 lol Dec 16 18:58:01 at least hello aim reconnects itself Dec 16 18:58:02 i talked her into getting the best internet she could XD Dec 16 18:58:06 not hard thoraxe Dec 16 18:58:09 use the api Dec 16 18:58:10 from aol Dec 16 18:58:15 they gave her a wifi modem i couldn't help but to set it up XD Dec 16 18:58:17 * MrJoePink scratches his head Dec 16 18:58:25 web based aim would be nice Dec 16 18:58:37 open source a o hell Dec 16 18:58:43 AOHELL IM Dec 16 18:58:48 android has a full im client right (yahoo, msn, aim, etc right) Dec 16 18:58:51 well, there's a meebo client, but it's terrible Dec 16 18:58:51 that'd be awesome Dec 16 18:58:54 FFForever: yes, it just doesnt' work Dec 16 18:58:55 if it screamed at you Dec 16 18:59:00 and talked for every message Dec 16 18:59:07 thoraxe, why does it not work? Dec 16 18:59:09 FFForever: or at least, it doesn't work consistently enough to be worthwhile Dec 16 18:59:17 yeah, it works Dec 16 18:59:21 just really shitty Dec 16 18:59:24 =( Dec 16 18:59:32 cut and paste of other opensource ones? Dec 16 18:59:37 FFForever: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list?can=2&q=aol&colspec=ID+Type+Version+Security+Status+Owner+Summary&cells=tiles Dec 16 18:59:51 yeah Dec 16 18:59:55 cut n paste MUH FUCKA Dec 16 18:59:56 it would be nice if someone could get pidgin on android, but apparently the whole GTK thing makes it very difficult Dec 16 18:59:57 WHAT? Dec 16 19:00:09 the whole thing of lacking libs Dec 16 19:00:14 makes it difficult Dec 16 19:00:19 MrJoePink: hey man keep the swearing to some other # huh? Dec 16 19:00:21 need a full distro of android Dec 16 19:00:25 sorry Dec 16 19:00:26 guh, okay, I think I shall not dwelve in the jf images territory - I hate images that I can't build myself or easily check the diffs against mainline Dec 16 19:00:26 d=( Dec 16 19:00:30 you could just use lib purple and write your own gui Dec 16 19:00:32 * MrJoePink straightens out his french Dec 16 19:00:50 thoraxe, muh bad Dec 16 19:00:50 FFForever: *I* could not do such a thing, but perhaps it could be done Dec 16 19:00:59 i need a vpn client more than i need an aim client Dec 16 19:01:04 lol Dec 16 19:01:05 lol Dec 16 19:01:11 vpn is evil Dec 16 19:01:11 dido Dec 16 19:01:13 thoraxe: which kind of vpn? Dec 16 19:01:14 ditto* Dec 16 19:01:23 * Disconnect will port ovpn one of these days Dec 16 19:01:29 i cant find a free one in the uk for free iplayer access lol Dec 16 19:01:31 sup Disconnect Dec 16 19:01:36 Disconnect: what about vpnc? Dec 16 19:01:43 thoraxe: L2TP/IPSec, PPTP, something else? Dec 16 19:01:46 thoraxe: no interest. :/ Dec 16 19:01:49 Hadaka: ipsec Dec 16 19:02:10 thoraxe: what's the server you are running against? Dec 16 19:02:12 need to get into a cisco vpn and an ipsec client would do the trick Dec 16 19:02:39 uhhhhhh i don't have the specific details at that level Dec 16 19:02:52 i just know that whatever cisco vpn client is avail for iphone works Dec 16 19:03:09 thoraxe: okay, cisco vpn Dec 16 19:03:15 why are cisco routers such a pita?, we had one at my old job at it was a pita and never worked right.... Dec 16 19:03:18 * MrJoePink is listening to: Justin timberlake - cry me a river Dec 16 19:03:39 Hadaka: yessir Dec 16 19:03:44 brb Dec 16 19:03:58 * FFForever is listening to: Will this download hurry up already - the retarded host Dec 16 19:03:59 lol Dec 16 19:04:22 vpnc is trivial to package for android on an unlocked phone - a full java implementation however is trickier Dec 16 19:04:48 Hadaka: ..trivial to port to bionic? Dec 16 19:05:08 Disconnect: hmh, you've got a point there, not sure actually Dec 16 19:05:16 (hint: no :) ..) Dec 16 19:05:36 what exactly does bionic do? Dec 16 19:05:57 its libc Dec 16 19:05:57 it takes a photo of ur eye and what do u get in return a private encrypted notepad? Dec 16 19:06:04 ..for sufficiently small values of libc Dec 16 19:06:32 how was the first compiler compiled? XD Dec 16 19:07:56 Disconnect: static compilation should work though, no? Dec 16 19:12:21 ttuttle: wait a minute, you didn't mean this for ulimit, did you? http://www.ss64.com/bash/ulimit.html Dec 16 19:14:38 Disconnect: so would openvpn work with android? Dec 16 19:14:40 err Dec 16 19:14:41 cisco vpn Dec 16 19:19:44 thoraxe: on a rooted phone, the linux client? Hmmm. Dec 16 19:19:47 interesting question. Dec 16 19:19:53 dunno if anyone's tried. Dec 16 19:19:59 why wouldn't it? Dec 16 19:20:11 arm vs x86. Dec 16 19:20:22 not sure if cisco releases non-x86 binaries for that. Dec 16 19:20:25 ....its C. why would it care? Dec 16 19:20:34 last I checked, cisco didn't provide source. Dec 16 19:20:35 http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~massar/vpnc/ Dec 16 19:20:41 oh 3rd party version. Dec 16 19:20:42 # Linux (i386/ppc/zaurus tested) Dec 16 19:20:51 if it runs on zaurus, it will probably run on android. Dec 16 19:20:55 *shrug* should work then. Dec 16 19:21:12 hmmm, supports juniper/netscreen too? neat! Dec 16 19:21:24 some piles of dependencies Dec 16 19:21:25 although, the neotaris/netscreen/juniper ssl vpn... Dec 16 19:21:34 is actually some java thing. Dec 16 19:21:43 so I could see them adding support themselves. Dec 16 19:22:15 [for the network connect portion, the straight ssl 'vpn' webproxy thing already works fine] Dec 16 19:30:48 awesome. my home app has been blank for at least 3 minutes. Dec 16 19:31:05 grey-: unfortunately i need to connect to a cisco vpn (ipsec), so my options right now on android are... zero? Dec 16 19:31:15 sweet, it gave up. tab bar worked but when i swiped it decided to draw my icons. Dec 16 19:31:19 disconnect, i think you should return that bad boy Dec 16 19:31:21 at least they are all there. Dec 16 19:31:32 thoraxe: vpnc on a rooted android looks useful. Dec 16 19:32:10 marix_work: ..until they have a working software load? Dec 16 19:32:11 Anybody have a devphone yet? Dec 16 19:32:16 They for real? ;) Dec 16 19:32:20 eggy: no. Dec 16 19:32:52 Still not shipped =p Dec 16 19:33:01 http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/android-developer-phone-1 Dec 16 19:33:49 grey-: is there a writeup on vpnc on android? why do you need to root it? Dec 16 19:34:00 i haven't read anything about rooting the phone so i'm not so sure i want to run out and do that Dec 16 19:34:15 and for some reason my fedora isn't recognizing the phone as storage... although I'm abuot to reformat so.... Dec 16 19:34:19 ..you can't run a vpn as non-root. it has to modify network routes and interfaces. Dec 16 19:34:26 anyway meeting, bbl Dec 16 19:34:31 Disconnect: makes perfect sense Dec 16 19:34:49 so i guess i'll revert to "is there a writeup for vpnc on android?" heh Dec 16 19:34:59 you cou,d in theory, write it entirely from scratch inside android and get it to use some new perms and such inside the framework. Dec 16 19:35:02 but that isn't happening. Dec 16 19:35:46 Disconnect: got a link on rooting android? Dec 16 19:55:09 He's in a meeting, business meetings are great because they give the illusion of progress while wasting time! Dec 16 19:56:26 always schedule your meetings in conflicting pairs, this way you have an excuse to skip both and get some work done. Dec 16 19:57:29 good call jbq Dec 16 19:59:39 Need to remember that one. Dec 16 20:01:05 i'm the only sysadmin/security/network guy in a company of developers. my portions of the meeting are brief, and to the point. Dec 16 20:02:29 "People, please watch good porn. The stuff you're watching sucks" Dec 16 20:02:40 Try that in a ,eeting. Dec 16 20:03:31 nah its even better. we also have a fairly standard office-sized it dept consisting of 2 part-type guys (BOF/PHY except they're typical small-office point&clickers) Dec 16 20:03:47 I remember the sysadmin at the CS lab in my uni explaining that he only had to work when something was not working and therefore somebody else couldn't work, and that he worked very hard to be sure that he never had to work. Dec 16 20:03:48 small-office-sized i mean, as in sized for a small office Dec 16 20:03:55 yep Dec 16 20:04:17 i've spent most of a year trying to get ahead of that ball. but i'm basically there. next year is gonna be calm. Dec 16 20:04:49 The guy had two screen: one to monitor the health of all the systems in the lab, one to play games. He was scarily good at nethack. Dec 16 20:04:50 lol, dont say that. it will all go wrong just to spite you Dec 16 20:05:34 SGTDave: its an 'agile' shop. if it all goes wrong, 99.99% of the time its their fault, not mine. and i've covered that last little bit pretty well. Dec 16 20:06:37 (agile seems to generally mean "we release early and often cuz its easier than testing" .. except we do go through -tons- of testing on look and feel. not so much on the functionality or unit testing, integration testing, that sort of thing.) Dec 16 20:06:59 still, its that 99.99% of problems that people will throw at you to sort Dec 16 20:07:14 i'm currently sitting out a "why we need coding standards" meeting Dec 16 20:07:31 oy Dec 16 20:07:44 Disconnect: those are less fun than the "you want me to put my braces WHERE?" meeting. Dec 16 20:07:59 One usually follows the other though. Dec 16 20:08:04 nope. i get "this server is kerboom" ("stupid antique vmware. ok." .. legacy, whee) and "hey, is there a way to {foo}?" Dec 16 20:08:12 heh Dec 16 20:09:15 and every now and then "oh, btw, server {foo} is doing that funny ssh thing again. think it got hacked again?" ... sigh. (but we can't turn it off, cuz that would involve documenting whats on it and setting up a new machine. :( i did get the worst offender off, and the 2nd worst is pending removal next week, before the holidays.) Dec 16 20:09:16 jbq: i think there's a big trough of midrange nethack people...either you get annoyed by it regularly and never get any good, or it becomes your life :) Dec 16 20:09:44 has anyone implemented a script shell for android? some repl with a language that can access java stuff directly? rhino, jython, conjure, etc? Dec 16 20:09:45 * Disconnect is midrange, but thats from playing excessively a few years back :) Dec 16 20:10:02 haha wtf is this noise? http://androidcommunity.com/macanas-nanophone-offers-security-options-for-the-android-platform-20081216/ Dec 16 20:10:28 heh Disconnect Dec 16 20:11:01 i still play rogue, my sister is scary-good at moria derivatives, nethack just had too many in-jokes for me Dec 16 20:11:32 neat. it incorporates a sandbox so apps can't harm each other.. Dec 16 20:11:34 wait... Dec 16 20:11:38 hang on. i've heard .. hmm. Dec 16 20:11:43 tip of my tongue. Dec 16 20:11:48 Hadaka: I plan on seeing if I can get clojure working on Android Dec 16 20:11:51 i got it! android does thaat already! Dec 16 20:12:15 Nafai: great! holler if you get any progress Dec 16 20:12:22 :) Dec 16 20:12:37 . * Scalable and secure firmware updating and secure boot capabilities; Dec 16 20:12:49 yeah like THATs a problem :p Dec 16 20:13:49 they mean "you can't boot it if you hack the bootloader" (only the datasheet says "bios") Dec 16 20:19:17 i knew androidcomm had a habit if running press releases but .. wow. Dec 16 20:19:45 lol, fed cut the rate gain its at 0 :P Dec 16 20:19:55 anyone wanna get me some coochie socks for christmas? Dec 16 20:19:58 coogi? Dec 16 20:21:04 marix_work: free money :) Dec 16 20:22:13 note to self, buy more gold. Dec 16 20:23:17 note to self, sell more fake gold to marix Dec 16 20:23:49 its shiney, but it aint about the money! Dec 16 20:23:54 how are the dev phones doing? you guys like them (those that have them) Dec 16 20:24:09 ok do i port busybox or do i port openvpn? i'm thinking busybox. Dec 16 20:24:11 disconnect, can you just spam that unboxing review every 15 minutes or so Dec 16 20:24:41 id go busy box, open vpn isnt as relevant to me. Dec 16 20:26:44 anyone know what this error could mean: Failure [INSTALL_PARSE_FAILED_UNEXPECTED_EXCEPTION] Dec 16 20:26:55 ..wait, so "whats the difference?" "here's an article" is spam. but your babbling about the fed and rin tin tin is on topic? dude, you gotta lay off the booze at work.. Dec 16 20:27:03 re: gold...http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/randy-olson-photography Dec 16 20:27:11 I'd like to debug the Android kernel using eclipse. Can anyone point me to a tutorial? Dec 16 20:27:27 you need to spam it, everyone and their mom keeps asking about it Dec 16 20:27:33 why so defensive Dec 16 20:27:39 are there e-mail clients other than email or K9? Dec 16 20:28:19 orci: what are you looking for? Dec 16 20:28:33 korndub, http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/android-developer-phone-1 Dec 16 20:28:39 other / more does not equate to better. Dec 16 20:29:01 an imap client that really works. email or k9 cannot reply to mails, I cannot click URL in them and they check mail even though I tell them not check it Dec 16 20:29:11 unix_lappy, ^ Dec 16 20:29:24 orci: i vote user error. i have no problems replying. Dec 16 20:29:40 haven't tried urls. Dec 16 20:30:04 and urls work too Dec 16 20:30:21 .. seriously, its PEBPAC. Dec 16 20:30:28 mail has been fine for me. though i wish gmail could handle multiple accounts. Dec 16 20:30:41 Disconnect, when I reply to a mail, it first shows the address being replied to correctly in the to section followed by a comma. then I type in my reply and when I hit send it tells me to enter at least one e-mail address and shows only the comma in the To section Dec 16 20:30:56 Disconnect, are you using email or k9? Dec 16 20:31:01 k9 Dec 16 20:31:04 hello people Dec 16 20:31:34 Disconnect, not sure about urls with k9 but I am positive that i had this reply problem with k9 as wel Dec 16 20:31:36 i betcha you're typing your reply in the to field. cuz replying just worked for me too. tested specifically for you :) Dec 16 20:32:07 marix_work: thanks i was just asking opinions.... i read that article already, was making smalltalk, trying to chat. Dec 16 20:32:15 Disconnect, of course that is not the case Dec 16 20:32:27 I need create a tabular grid the first column need to be textedit enable to be modified by user and input text in the other columns exist any widget or code for this task? Dec 16 20:32:40 * Disconnect learned a long, long time ago that "of course" should never be assumed when doing any sort of support. Dec 16 20:32:50 Is anyone here running Android on pxa3xx? Dec 16 20:33:04 enzo: find some punctuation, try that again in english. Dec 16 20:33:10 android on open pandora? Dec 16 20:34:33 hmm, phone is getting abnormally hot with Blackberry Curve charger. Dec 16 20:35:16 also many times, message looked as if it was sent but was never copied to sent mail folder Dec 16 20:35:32 I mostly used "email" though not k9 Dec 16 20:35:48 unix_lappy: my phone always gets abnormally hot when charging Dec 16 20:35:52 unix_lappy: enjoy your bomb Dec 16 20:35:59 MrJoePink: looks like open pandora uses omap3? Dec 16 20:36:37 vol? Dec 16 20:36:45 grey-: hey do you have any links or resources for running the vpn thinger in rooted android? Dec 16 20:36:49 15:34 < unix_lappy> hmm, phone is getting abnormally hot with Blackberry Curve charger. Dec 16 20:37:04 vol: it's at virtually the same specs as the G1 charger. Dec 16 20:37:30 and e-mail does not delete e-mails when I tell it to do so Dec 16 20:37:32 thoraxe: I don't. Dec 16 20:37:41 :( Dec 16 20:37:42 thoraxe: presumably start with getting the debian userland running. Dec 16 20:37:50 thoraxe: then maybe apt-get install vpnc ? Dec 16 20:37:52 ugh, no thanks Dec 16 20:37:56 heh Dec 16 20:38:03 i don't need work email that much Dec 16 20:38:08 i actually don't even WANT work email Dec 16 20:38:13 haha Dec 16 20:38:15 ;) Dec 16 20:38:17 but it'd be cool to say that i can get it Dec 16 20:38:19 unix_lappy: hey, you're the one with the explosive phone. Dec 16 20:38:32 thoraxe: but it took the iphone a long time to get cisco vpn support going; I'm sure android will get it in time. Dec 16 20:38:41 thoraxe: arguably, less time. ;) Dec 16 20:38:45 but that remains to be seen. Dec 16 20:39:00 grey-: oh did it? i guess ididn't know how long it took because as soon as people here at the office were getting 3g iphones they had vpn Dec 16 20:39:05 but the iphone had been out for a while before that Dec 16 20:39:13 btw spira defence is an awesome game Dec 16 20:39:14 heh Dec 16 20:39:27 thoraxe: *nod* 2.0 firmware Dec 16 20:39:33 thoraxe: which came w/ iphone 3g. Dec 16 20:39:42 thoraxe: so, over a year. Dec 16 20:39:47 just about. Dec 16 20:39:50 I think? Dec 16 20:39:58 wait when was iphone released? Dec 16 20:40:00 2006? Dec 16 20:40:06 * grey- can't remember shit anymore. Dec 16 20:40:10 2007 Dec 16 20:40:34 so less than a year. Dec 16 20:40:40 but around that. Dec 16 20:42:57 thought 3g was 07 Dec 16 20:43:21 3G was July of this year. Dec 16 20:43:48 nevermind, yah. 07 2g 08 3g Dec 16 20:43:52 steve has his jedi mind tricks down. Dec 16 20:52:39 well obviously what i am having is user error then. Since I am alone who is complaining about the email client Dec 16 20:54:03 Disconnect: are you still tackling the Advance Audio Distribution Profile? Dec 16 20:54:35 not until i get that highspeed bt driver from @tehgoog Dec 16 20:56:28 orci: I haven't tried baleeting them, let me try Dec 16 20:56:34 what other functionality will that driver open up potentially? Dec 16 20:57:00 p2p via bluetooth? Dec 16 20:57:16 orci: seems to work for me. Dec 16 20:57:33 vol can you click on URLs too? Dec 16 20:57:36 functionality is already there. its the speed. Dec 16 20:57:50 in gmail? yes Dec 16 20:57:54 it launches the browser Dec 16 20:57:59 vol: in k-9 it works also Dec 16 20:58:03 vol no email Dec 16 20:58:09 oh. Dec 16 20:58:14 ... wait. Dec 16 20:58:20 is this some email client I haven't seen? Dec 16 20:58:22 vol, thank you Dec 16 20:58:25 that's not the gmail app Dec 16 20:58:40 email is the client that comes by default on android Dec 16 20:58:48 together with gmail client Dec 16 20:58:51 "email". (or a derivative such as k-9) Dec 16 20:59:09 wasn't their some issue w/ the highspeed bt driver and battery life? Dec 16 20:59:18 I used k-9 very early times, I cannot speak for that Dec 16 20:59:45 marix: long term battery life or something that can be solved by plugging in? Dec 16 20:59:54 I am setting up my accounts on the newest k9 version though, I'll see soon Dec 16 21:00:25 .... ooooh. Dec 16 21:00:31 marix_work: there was a single statement by a goo that there were battery issues. Dec 16 21:00:34 Hey, I don't think I even realized I had that. Dec 16 21:00:50 vol OK no problem thanks Dec 16 21:00:53 bert0 battery drain, ie additional power draw. Dec 16 21:00:56 Disconnect, thank you too Dec 16 21:01:35 any problems with k9? Dec 16 21:02:06 * ttuttle has acquired an earphone (w/ mic) and case for his radio. Dec 16 21:02:19 orci: Yeah, where's the doctor? Dec 16 21:02:24 * vol jumps on ttuttle Dec 16 21:02:37 http://www.ss64.com/bash/ulimit.html Dec 16 21:02:41 when you were talking about ulimit earlier Dec 16 21:02:48 did you mean that (kind of) ulimit? Dec 16 21:02:54 or is it something else Dec 16 21:03:02 DJTachyon, would you mind telling me what problems you are having/ Dec 16 21:03:15 Muahahaha .. My Influence grows: http://www.sheldonshirts.com/nerd.html Dec 16 21:03:25 orci: That was a Doctor Who reference silly Dec 16 21:06:37 djtachyon, are you banking any coin from yoru cafe press store? Dec 16 21:06:47 <`krstnsn> why does my g1 get text msges twice Dec 16 21:06:48 <`krstnsn> i ont get it Dec 16 21:07:15 marix: .. not much .. but enough to pay for my android marketplace account :P Dec 16 21:07:23 heyoh! Dec 16 21:07:37 <_zippy> lol Dec 16 21:07:47 whats the return on that, do you get like $1 per item ro soemthing? Dec 16 21:07:54 <_zippy> does any one here have a pay-app on the market? Dec 16 21:08:01 Could someone please port "I'm Rich!" to the android platform Dec 16 21:08:03 jk Dec 16 21:08:10 <_zippy> hah ;) Dec 16 21:08:35 you can make the markup whatever you want Dec 16 21:10:25 <`krstnsn> anyone else getting text msgs twice in the notification bar? Dec 16 21:10:41 nope Dec 16 21:10:49 <_zippy> i did a few time when i first got he pheon Dec 16 21:10:57 <`krstnsn> it started yesterday Dec 16 21:11:01 <`krstnsn> and is continueing today Dec 16 21:11:24 <`krstnsn> talked to a guy in new orleans that its happening to aswell Dec 16 21:12:42 I haven't gotten any yet today Dec 16 21:13:08 exit Dec 16 21:13:27 * ITechJunkie_work slaps forehead Dec 16 21:22:02 ./system/bin # busybox cp -s busybox cp Dec 16 21:22:02 Segmentation fault Dec 16 21:22:26 im getting strange errors about no space left on device Dec 16 21:22:30 looks like k9 has progressed a lot no problems so far Dec 16 21:22:37 ln! Dec 16 21:22:43 d0netsFN: are you using JF RC30 v1.2? if so, busybox is in /system/xbin/ Dec 16 21:22:57 d0netsFN: Not sure, I but I think you might be out of space on your device. Dec 16 21:22:58 yes i am and ok one sec Dec 16 21:23:08 andyross i just got it Dec 16 21:23:16 has anybody experienced missing calls when device is in use by some other applications? Dec 16 21:23:30 It was sarcasm. What does "df" say? Dec 16 21:26:00 are tools available to read amr decoded files in GNU/Linux? Dec 16 21:27:04 Is it possible to tell android to use some other format for decoding audio other than amr format? Or is this application specific? Dec 16 21:27:08 ./system/xbin # chmod 4755 busybox Dec 16 21:27:08 chmod: busybox: Read-only file system Dec 16 21:27:18 ..maybe you should mount it read only Dec 16 21:27:21 er.. read write Dec 16 21:27:52 /system/xbin # mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system Dec 16 21:27:52 /system/xbin # chmod 4755 busybox Dec 16 21:27:52 chmod: busybox: Read-only file system Dec 16 21:28:05 Or maybe (and I don't actually mean this sarcastically this time) spend some time practicing at the command line of your desktop linux box to get used to this stuff, instead of mucking with a phone you might brick. Dec 16 21:28:31 hey dont hate on the nix skills Dec 16 21:28:38 i had already mounted it rw Dec 16 21:29:08 Except that the device disagrees, and the commands to tell (mount, for example) are ones that have man pages you can check on your desktop box. Dec 16 21:29:31 I was going to suggest typing "mount" by itself to verify that it's RW. Dec 16 21:29:41 d0netsFN: you need to mount the file system as read write, there are many threads on xda-developers to do this. Dec 16 21:30:10 d0netsFN: if you have root on adb you just type adb remount, or from the terminal on the phone you type mount -oremount,rw /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system Dec 16 21:33:05 http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/16/sharp-halts-zaurus-pda-production-smartphones-to-blame/ :( Dec 16 21:33:24 * Disconnect still has a c760 somewhere, that was a slick little device Dec 16 21:34:41 * andyross remains surprised that sharp never made any effort to push the zaurus stuff into a phone. It's not like they couldn't see this coming, even palm got off of PDAs years ago. Dec 16 21:34:54 yah Dec 16 21:35:25 there was some gsm modem for the zaurus I thought... Dec 16 21:35:28 but yeah. Dec 16 21:35:32 * andyross suspects there's a lesson in there for the Nokia tablets too... Dec 16 21:35:33 it had a lot of potential. Dec 16 21:35:38 but didn't go there. Dec 16 21:35:42 andyross: too true. Dec 16 21:35:59 I think nokia may pull its head out of its ass, but dunno if anyone will care. Dec 16 21:36:22 istr phone stuff is being considered with maemo. but they are pushing platform first, phone second. that may or may not be suicide. Dec 16 21:36:44 *sigh* tardz. Dec 16 21:36:48 nokia won't suicide. Dec 16 21:37:00 but I doubt they'll see much success in such things. Dec 16 21:37:39 suicide for maemo Dec 16 21:38:30 which is "nokia" the same way android is "google" .. they do a ton of handwaving and magic tricks but at the end of the day, its purely a corporate project. Dec 16 21:38:31 anyone in here played with the openx api? Dec 16 21:38:35 or the openx gem Dec 16 21:38:46 The maemo devices still have a better screen space and text-entry experience. But they're being pressed on both sides from netbooks and "iPhone-like" phones. Dec 16 21:39:14 oops wrong channel Dec 16 21:39:18 The number of users for whom a N810 is a better choice than say an Eee PC or a G1 is shrinking fast. Dec 16 21:40:03 agreed. Dec 16 21:40:11 I would like to see a netbookphoneandroidthinger. Dec 16 21:40:19 I'm please to hear that android is being ported to x86. Dec 16 21:41:05 Hmm, interesting. Dec 16 21:41:24 It looks like a lot of the time, the JVM is trying to load our shared lib, but our shared lib is already loaded, and this causes a crash. Dec 16 21:41:46 vol: crash or abort? Dec 16 21:42:12 ack i need a todo manager Dec 16 21:42:15 If it crashes at address "deadd00d", it's a VM abort. Dec 16 21:42:32 * Disconnect used to use the c760 @ the bar, ended up with all the waitresses and bartenders gathered around marveling at least once a week. it was fun. and battery life that put g1 to shame.. Dec 16 21:42:36 lol Dec 16 21:42:45 Heh, cute. Is that a PC address or the address of a bad load? Dec 16 21:43:12 andyross: dvmAbort() stores a byte at that address. Dec 16 21:43:28 segfault, so I guess crash Dec 16 21:43:32 I initially just called abort(), but the crash-catcher had trouble figuring out what thread you were in. Dec 16 21:43:34 fault address f81ff825 Dec 16 21:43:51 vol: that's a funky address Dec 16 21:44:04 The VM knows that the library has already been loaded if you use the same path to it. Dec 16 21:44:21 looks like 2 pixels of RGB565 data. Dec 16 21:44:22 It has to know this to prevent you from trying to load the same shared lib into two different class loaders (it's a JNI restriction). Dec 16 21:44:30 yeah, abort never seems to do the right thing. If I'm adding debug code, I usually just write *(int*)0=0, which has the dual advantage of not requiring me to hop up the the top of the file to add a header and looking cool to boot. Dec 16 21:44:36 hm, succeeded in getting beanshell to work on android and wrapping it into a trivial activity Dec 16 21:45:24 *((char*)0xdeadd00d) = 38; Dec 16 21:45:29 fadden: murgle. Dec 16 21:45:46 vol: you should see logs from the VM trying or refusing to load the lib. Dec 16 21:46:10 fadden: mind if I start msging you a ton of junk? Dec 16 21:46:18 Mostly LOGD level -- see dalvik/vm/Native.c Dec 16 21:46:26 yes, it's debug level Dec 16 21:46:27 vol: pastebin or I can give you an e-mail address Dec 16 21:46:37 fadden: email would work best I think. Dec 16 21:46:47 fadden at android de la com Dec 16 21:47:28 huh, that's an address. Dec 16 21:47:37 Well, minus the spam paranoia. Dec 16 21:47:48 which is to say, I assumed that someone owned that in 1997 and it would be a junky splash page Dec 16 21:48:11 The guy who started Android (Andy Rubin) bought android.com. Dec 16 21:48:25 Same story for danger.com in his previous venture. Dec 16 21:48:31 ah Dec 16 21:48:41 It's a pretty good domain name. Wonder what the market price was. Dec 16 21:48:56 I asked once, but I don't remember what the answer was. Dec 16 21:49:31 actually, I'm an idiot Dec 16 21:49:46 this is an issue of our native code trying to get started twice I think Dec 16 21:49:58 Via JNI_OnLoad or some other mechanism? Dec 16 21:50:02 it looks like we may not be shutting ourselves down incorrectly Dec 16 21:50:15 vol: that seems like a *good* thing Dec 16 21:50:23 well, yes, I suppose in a sense. Dec 16 21:50:30 Failing to be incorrect is often desirable. Dec 16 21:50:51 it's not JNI_OnLoad. we've created a native method called init, which we call after we call a couple of other preperatory methods (mostly to attach other threads first) Dec 16 21:51:20 So long as it isn't my fault I'm okay with whatever you're doing. :-) Dec 16 21:51:36 I think so : ) Dec 16 21:51:46 of course, we are going pretty far into "unofficial" territory Dec 16 21:51:56 one of my coworkers wants to link against the opengl lib Dec 16 21:52:02 which I have warned him is a Bad Idea Dec 16 21:52:20 Blah blah not certified blah blah subject to change blah. Dec 16 21:52:25 however, I have faith that someone from here will show our program to someone at google and we'll be able to figure out some scheme where we can call against native libs Dec 16 21:52:35 yes yes yes : P Dec 16 21:52:42 which is why I warned him Dec 16 21:53:19 speaking of which, if I set ulimit -c 10000000, where would a core file plop out? Dec 16 21:53:26 (if any!) Dec 16 21:53:45 I'm guessing /data, but I'm not sure. I was once told that the core dump mechanism did work. Dec 16 21:53:52 that's reassuring Dec 16 21:54:07 Pretty sure cwd is / for applications. I checked once, maybe I'm misremembering. Dec 16 21:54:31 The runtime startup code got swizzled around a bit since I last looked at it, so it could be / now. Dec 16 21:54:48 Have you tried the just-in-time wait-for-debugger thing? Dec 16 21:54:57 (requires root, unfortunately) Dec 16 21:54:58 Yeah, cd /proc/.../cwd; pwd shows "/" for all the zygote children. Dec 16 21:55:08 the what in the who in the what? Dec 16 21:55:47 andyross: frameworks/base/cmds/runtime/main_runtime.cpp wants to chdir to the "asset dir" for historical reasons. Dec 16 21:55:59 No idea what if anything that does now. Dec 16 21:56:11 vol: setprop debug.db.uid 32767 Dec 16 21:56:27 When something crashes it pops up a message in the log and waits for a debugger to attach until you hit "home". Dec 16 21:56:28 ah, I think I tried that and nothing happened, but let me try again Dec 16 21:56:38 would this work on the emulator? Dec 16 21:56:48 I've never tried it on the emulator, but I don't know why it wouldn't. Dec 16 21:57:12 The crash-catcher is the bit of code that dumps the registers and native stack trace to the log when things crash. Dec 16 21:57:18 well, lets see what happens. Dec 16 21:57:20 So I know it's active. Dec 16 21:57:51 ha! looks like that does work! Dec 16 21:57:58 fadden I could kiss you :* Dec 16 21:58:07 Well, you could try. Dec 16 21:58:09 I remember trying that before and it wasn't doing anything Dec 16 21:58:45 Actually, that should work for non-root (since it's a "debug" property). Dec 16 21:58:56 I'm not sure you could actually attach a debugger though. Dec 16 22:01:15 i wonder who left that execute commands as root "bug" in t-mobile's g1 android :P Dec 16 22:01:26 i'd like to buy them a beer.. hehe Dec 16 22:01:39 I wish I had capitalized on that Dec 16 22:01:56 instead of scoffed and said "what an incredibly dumb prank someone is trying to pull on me, that surely wouldn't work" Dec 16 22:02:00 i knew i kept saying "no" to the update for a reason ;) Dec 16 22:02:22 i think somethings fucked up with my g1 Dec 16 22:02:49 d0netsFN: yeah, thats normal :p Dec 16 22:03:37 it keeps saying read only file system Dec 16 22:03:38 the external battery you get from t-mobile as an accessory, should come with the phone Dec 16 22:03:40 i tried adb remount Dec 16 22:03:58 i tried mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system Dec 16 22:04:08 d0netsFN: language. and i suspect its on the other side of the glass. Dec 16 22:04:38 i used my ext battery last night, as i was in bed.. playing videos and chatting on the net etc Dec 16 22:04:42 fadden: now, how do I debug this? I end up in futex_wait when I hit bt Dec 16 22:04:56 it lasted about 15 - 20 minutes or something before going flat Dec 16 22:04:58 do I get to guess the thread? Dec 16 22:05:01 vol: info threads Dec 16 22:05:15 The thread number should be near the top of the log message Dec 16 22:05:18 well, I hit the home key like a moron, so I'll have to try again in a minute : P Dec 16 22:05:33 ah, yes, there it is next to pid Dec 16 22:05:38 Usually it puts you in it but sometimes you have to "thread N" with whatever the value is Dec 16 22:05:44 but being plugged into to charge, seems to boost the screen brightness and make the radio appear to work more reliably.. i could be tripping Dec 16 22:05:50 Also: it's probably the only thread *not* in futex_wait Dec 16 22:06:41 the charger shouldn't affect the radio power Dec 16 22:07:43 snadge: it gets your hand away from the poorly placed wifi antenna.. Dec 16 22:07:48 fadden: very likely : ) Dec 16 22:11:27 snadge: do you generally charge w/ AC, or a computer? Dec 16 22:13:59 fadden: fantastic, I have a stack trace : ) Dec 16 22:14:23 Cool. That's usually how I do development. Dec 16 22:14:25 I very strong suspect that this is from something like us expecting a global to be null, and it's not Dec 16 22:14:51 our error checking standards are very stringent here at my company Dec 16 22:15:03 which is to say "return codes are for wussies" Dec 16 22:15:06 disconnect look dude i think im doing everything right Dec 16 22:15:11 i just tried a different way Dec 16 22:15:16 I thought I detected a note of sarcasm. Dec 16 22:15:18 i opened terminal emu and typed su Dec 16 22:15:32 you should have seen the fun I had trying to port some stuff to unix :> Dec 16 22:15:38 i then did #mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system Dec 16 22:15:42 you haven't lived until you've debugged on HPUX Dec 16 22:15:46 ..don't type # Dec 16 22:15:47 its a comment Dec 16 22:15:52 i didnt ... Dec 16 22:15:53 d0netsFN: you arent putting the # are you? Dec 16 22:15:54 im saying i was root Dec 16 22:15:57 ok just checking. Dec 16 22:15:58 come on guys Dec 16 22:16:01 wtf Dec 16 22:16:09 * sparkle chuckles Dec 16 22:16:09 what did it say when you did that? Dec 16 22:16:13 vol, at least it's gotten better Dec 16 22:16:15 simplify. "id" ok i'm root "mount -o remount,rw /system /system" Dec 16 22:16:20 that's true Dec 16 22:16:20 nothing Dec 16 22:16:22 as if it was ok Dec 16 22:16:22 hpux <10 was just scary horrid Dec 16 22:16:24 either an error or not an error Dec 16 22:16:32 right Dec 16 22:16:34 then type "mount" and see what it did. "df" too. Dec 16 22:16:34 so next Dec 16 22:16:39 i cd /system/xbin Dec 16 22:16:45 our ancient hpux machine is 11.00 Dec 16 22:16:48 and what does mount | grep system say? (is grep installed on these? hmm, perhaps not. do it manually if not :P ) Dec 16 22:16:49 so, not that bad Dec 16 22:16:52 Disconnect: I keep suggesting that but I think I'm writing with invisible characters. Dec 16 22:16:58 busybox cp -s busybox cp Dec 16 22:17:00 fadden: yah its funny Dec 16 22:17:03 ln -s Dec 16 22:17:10 Sometimes chat rooms are write-only. Dec 16 22:17:16 "cp: cannot create 'cp': Read only file system Dec 16 22:17:20 rm -r / (don't) Dec 16 22:17:28 wait. Dec 16 22:17:32 d0netsFN: which directory are you in Dec 16 22:17:33 pwd Dec 16 22:17:34 Does anyone know what VERIFY_MODE_REMOTE is intended for in DVM? Dec 16 22:17:37 d0netsFN: what does ''mount'' say Dec 16 22:17:42 if it's /system/xbin i will slap you :p Dec 16 22:17:44 d0netsFN: or cat /proc/mounts Dec 16 22:17:44 /system/xbin Dec 16 22:17:46 sharvil: yes Dec 16 22:17:49 hahaha Dec 16 22:17:57 score! Dec 16 22:17:58 d0netsFN: for a long time peolpe ahve been telling you 'df' and 'mount' Dec 16 22:17:58 * sparkle laughs Dec 16 22:17:59 try them Dec 16 22:18:03 ssh everyone Dec 16 22:18:06 you can't write to /system/xbin Dec 16 22:18:10 it's a cramfs Dec 16 22:18:18 don't give it away. lets see if he is physically capable of following directions or if he dies. Dec 16 22:18:24 hurrah for write-only filesystems Dec 16 22:18:32 5: go there Dec 16 22:18:32 cd /system/bin/ 6: this gives you cp (great for making more symlinks) Dec 16 22:18:32 busybox cp -s busybox cp Dec 16 22:18:46 ...tada, thats what i thought. he's not. Dec 16 22:18:47 should be ln -s Dec 16 22:18:55 anyway Dec 16 22:18:55 The fun part is you can totally make fun of him and not get called on it. Dec 16 22:19:05 ..cuz he's dumb? Dec 16 22:19:15 looks like cp -s works though, how silly Dec 16 22:19:21 Because he hit Ctrl-S about 10 minutes back. Dec 16 22:20:00 hehehe Dec 16 22:20:51 so what are you saying Dec 16 22:21:07 i am supposed to be in /system/bin/ like the directions say? Dec 16 22:21:09 nothing dude, don't worry about it. Dec 16 22:21:17 no. the directions aren't for you. Dec 16 22:21:22 d0netsFN: that /system/xbin is read-only, and you need to report information people request Dec 16 22:21:25 fadden: is there any way to that property you pointed to on startup? Dec 16 22:21:32 any way to load Dec 16 22:21:32 just type "busybox sh" and be happy. Dec 16 22:21:38 Does anyone know how I can move a hosts file from /sdcard/hosts to /etc/hosts ? It keeps telling me "failed on '/sdcard/hosts' - Cross-device link Dec 16 22:21:51 bert0: cp then rrm Dec 16 22:21:53 erh, rm Dec 16 22:21:56 bert0: are you sure you're doing cp correctly? Dec 16 22:22:02 it's not trying to do cp -s is it? Dec 16 22:22:03 bert0: you can't link, and cheap 'mv' does 'link,unlink' Dec 16 22:22:11 vol: symlink would work Dec 16 22:22:17 ah Dec 16 22:22:22 correct you are, now that I think :P Dec 16 22:22:23 ok wtf Dec 16 22:22:25 i did busybox sh Dec 16 22:22:27 now i have cp Dec 16 22:22:28 was confused with hardlink Dec 16 22:22:28 lame Dec 16 22:22:30 thanks Dec 16 22:22:37 I'm trying to use mv Dec 16 22:22:50 bert0: use cp then rm Dec 16 22:22:52 crap. he's contageous. Dec 16 22:22:56 it's true Dec 16 22:22:57 bert caught it too. Dec 16 22:22:59 cp says cp: not found Dec 16 22:23:04 vol: if you have root, create a /data/local.prop file and put "debug.db.uid = 32767" in it Dec 16 22:23:12 (root or emulator, not wiping data) Dec 16 22:23:15 Disconnect you are an arrogant cunt Dec 16 22:23:17 d0netsFN: you need to use the following command for symlinks ln -s /system/xbin/busybox /system/bin/ Dec 16 22:23:21 not everyone is 1337 as you Dec 16 22:23:31 and if I am a weenie that let my phone go to RC30? Dec 16 22:23:41 d0netsFN: a ton of people gave you all that info what, an hour or so ago? Dec 16 22:23:43 actually, we can't debug on device w/o root iirc, so that's irrelevant :\ Dec 16 22:23:48 (or can we?) Dec 16 22:23:56 they said adb remount Dec 16 22:23:56 i did Dec 16 22:23:59 vol: I don't believe you can. Dec 16 22:24:01 and i still couldnt adb push it Dec 16 22:24:12 i didnt know i couldnt push stuff to xbin Dec 16 22:24:14 until now Dec 16 22:24:14 was afraid so Dec 16 22:24:16 forgive me Dec 16 22:24:29 they said "mount" and "df'" both of which would - if you had tried it and reported back - explained the problem. Dec 16 22:24:30 d0netsFN: next time, LISTEN Dec 16 22:24:32 you dont have to be a cunt about it Dec 16 22:24:36 d0netsFN: maybe you should appologize to Disconnect for the name calling..... Dec 16 22:24:47 ooh! can we go 3 strikes on cussing? cuz he's at like 82 today.. Dec 16 22:25:01 oh cunt isnt allowed? Dec 16 22:25:06 Let us all move on. Dec 16 22:25:08 ok ill just replace its usage with "Disconnect" Dec 16 22:25:09 * Disconnect is at .. 2 i think :/ Dec 16 22:25:53 vol: you could set the property but (a) I don't think it takes effect until the runtime restarts, and (b) you'd probably have trouble attaching a debugger. Dec 16 22:26:12 d0netsFN: there is no need for your hostile attitude.... grow up Dec 16 22:26:41 action = reaction Dec 16 22:26:43 he started it Dec 16 22:26:46 * d0netsFN throws poo Dec 16 22:27:03 vol: the addresses should be the same in both places, though, so if you get a crash you may be able to identify the location by querying the address in gdb Dec 16 22:27:07 over on the emulator Dec 16 22:27:13 d0netsFN: wow...that is mature... he started it.... that statement perpetuates the wrong in this world. Dec 16 22:27:21 it was a joke Dec 16 22:28:04 <`krstnsn> korndub, stfu Dec 16 22:28:11 fadden: probably true Dec 16 22:28:29 the problem is, our whale of a debug library (60mb) won't have the same locations as our release (5mb) Dec 16 22:28:40 and I dare not put the debug lib on my phone Dec 16 22:28:42 I like having apps : ( Dec 16 22:28:44 heh Dec 16 22:28:49 wuss :) Dec 16 22:29:26 Can I use the "content://media/external/images/thumbnails/#" URI as the argument to ImageView#setBitmapUri()? I tried, doesn't seem to work. Dec 16 22:29:28 vol: yeah, that's a problem Dec 16 22:30:52 `krstnsn: what was that for? it sucks when people start being rude to people on here.... Dec 16 22:31:13 <`krstnsn> oh ya? Dec 16 22:31:50 * Disconnect thinks we've found a source of marketplace comments. Dec 16 22:32:05 Disconnect: omg 568th lol!!!!! Dec 16 22:32:10 yea it does Dec 16 22:32:14 then other people start being rude Dec 16 22:32:19 err, i meant ImageView#setImageUri() Dec 16 22:32:20 how do I make it so /etc/hosts is not read only? Dec 16 22:32:32 "It's all fun and games until somebody loses an inode." Dec 16 22:32:33 (seriously, what _is_ up with the market comments?) Dec 16 22:32:51 need a way to rate the comments :P Dec 16 22:33:12 because that works so well on slashdot and youtube? ;) Dec 16 22:33:13 bert0: mount /system readwrite and just edit it Dec 16 22:33:27 works well enough @ amazon and apple. Dec 16 22:33:55 bert0: chmod 0644 /etc/hosts Dec 16 22:33:57 both of those have signficant backend human moderation, don't they? amazon certainly does. Dec 16 22:34:11 and its a closed app. so its simple to tie the comments (internally) to a particular handset. "I'm sorry, you're use of the market has been suspended because you are a dumbass." Dec 16 22:34:23 (fwiw i agree that a peer-feedback mechanism for Market comments would not be a bad thing) Dec 16 22:34:24 bert0: assuming it's really read-only right now, and not just the filesystem Dec 16 22:35:01 peer moderation ('report this comment' for other users and/or for app authors) and after 'x' number of flags it goes to actual moderation. Dec 16 22:35:06 Note that android isn't using glibc; bionic has its own resolver. Be sure it does what you want it to do with /etc/hosts. What are you trying to accomplish? Dec 16 22:35:27 strangely enough it does have an /etc/hosts Dec 16 22:35:47 there is a /etc/hosts in the stock firmware, in the common format, so i'm going to go out on a limb and assume it uses it Dec 16 22:35:54 do Disconnect Dec 16 22:35:54 linuxy things tend to expect /etc/hosts to exist Dec 16 22:35:56 /etc/hosts isn't a glibc thing, it's pretty standard Dec 16 22:35:59 how do i copy files to xbin Dec 16 22:36:02 Copy those files to the device. iptables and pand can go anywhere (I recommend /system/xbin) and bnep.ko goes in /system/lib/modules. Dec 16 22:36:11 it's not a linux thing either - i'm not sure i've seen a unix system without it. Dec 16 22:36:23 thats from a tethering tutorial i found Dec 16 22:36:30 http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/second-g1-story-proper-bluetooth-tethering-how-short Dec 16 22:36:40 * Disconnect lhao Dec 16 22:37:02 d0netsFN: /system/xbin is cramfs, you have to recreate the entire filesystem to change what's on it Dec 16 22:37:19 gonna keep calling me names while you follow my tutorial? :) you need to ask JesusFreke how to modify /system/xbin since you're on his fs. or just "adapt and overcome" by picking a new path. Dec 16 22:37:30 his image that is Dec 16 22:37:57 thats my point Dec 16 22:38:01 you call me dumb Dec 16 22:38:08 because im trying to move files to xbin Dec 16 22:38:13 when your tut tells me to Dec 16 22:38:37 * sparkle remembers the good old days of libresolv+ Dec 16 22:39:01 ..no, we all called you dumb for not listening when you were offered solutions. Dec 16 22:39:35 and actually, yah.. "i'm using a weird image and don't know how its put together. clearly that is YOUR fault since your tutorial assumes that I know what I am doing and haven't done anything bizarre to my system"... Dec 16 22:39:47 but are we starting this again? Dec 16 22:39:47 Someone really needs to productize the tethering stuff with a market application. Probably needs a dhcpd and tinydns for the proxied link. Dec 16 22:40:17 andyross: isn't it still a no-go without root? i can see the comments now... Dec 16 22:40:18 andyross: requires root. and a hs bt driver. Dec 16 22:40:26 does the tutorial say ANYTHING about that? no Dec 16 22:40:45 Yes, but these days you just put it up and say it runs only on a devphone. Testing for a working su is pretty trivial. Dec 16 22:40:45 be specific, and when you arent, dont be a dick when people ask for clarification Dec 16 22:40:52 "omg i installed this and it killed my dog ZERO STARS!!!" Dec 16 22:41:14 And yeah, morons will put up dumb comments. But they do that for everything. Dec 16 22:41:17 d0netsFN: you didn't ask for clarification. and it also doesn't mention that you can't have put windows mobile on your handset, or deleted all the files, or set it on fire in a weird paganistic ceremony. Dec 16 22:42:08 we were all very specific. "what does mount say?" "what does df say?" "try df" "try mount" ... seriously, you lose at life. get over it. if you want help i'm sure someone else will be happy to do so. Dec 16 22:42:37 below me Dec 16 22:42:39 * Disconnect goes back to watching xaviar wander around the lists.. Dec 16 22:43:29 anyone have an updated ETA on T-Mobile's mysterious announcement that was supposed to happen last thursday/monday? :P Dec 16 22:43:51 last mysterious rumour i heard was this friday. but again, thats all mysterious. Dec 16 22:43:54 T-Mobile had a mysterious announcement? I'm out of the loop. Dec 16 22:44:22 i'm hoping this turns in to a running joke Dec 16 22:45:04 what's going on? mystery? Dec 16 22:45:11 andyross: speculation baiting. Dec 16 22:45:52 OK so I type in (as root) "busybox cp /sdcard/hosts /etc/hosts" and it returns an error: "cp: cannot remove /etc/hosts: no such file or directory" Dec 16 22:46:09 any thoughts? Dec 16 22:46:16 SGTDave: any letter from Tmo? Dec 16 22:46:46 is it possible to change the default sound encoding format of android from amr to something else? or is this application specific? Dec 16 22:46:47 andyross: rumors of T-Mobile making an announcement are floating around, supposedly having to do with root access.. it's been pushed back more than a few times now, if indeed there is one imminent Dec 16 22:47:00 bert0: /etc is a symlink to /system/etc. /system is a read only filesystem, you can't write there. You can remount it rw with "adb remount" Dec 16 22:47:23 Really? Those are very good rumors to hear. Dec 16 22:47:31 andyross: not if they're just rumors ;) Dec 16 22:47:41 andyross: thanks I will try that Dec 16 22:47:45 * Disconnect is betting on "just rumours" but.. Dec 16 22:47:52 Still good to hear. Facts would be even better of course. Dec 16 22:48:25 andyross: i might have a bridge i can sell you Dec 16 22:48:41 I didn't say I believe it. I said it was good to hear. :) Dec 16 22:48:48 :D Dec 16 22:49:03 I still get the same error Dec 16 22:49:22 Your phone is rooted? Dec 16 22:49:25 yes Dec 16 22:49:42 any root on rc30s yet? Dec 16 22:49:46 no Dec 16 22:51:33 why does it try to remove /etc/hosts instead of just writing to it? Dec 16 22:51:49 because its doing a mv. cat /sdcard/hosts > /etc/hosts does a truncate-and-append Dec 16 22:52:16 mv is "unlink and copy". (or, on the same filesystem, "unlink, hardlink, remove original") Dec 16 22:52:25 <`krstnsn> anyone getting 2 text alrerts in the window shade? Dec 16 22:53:02 <`krstnsn> wtf Dec 16 22:53:04 not here, although k9sms can't/won't clear them Dec 16 22:53:05 <`krstnsn> just shade Dec 16 22:53:11 The "cp" implementation probably does that because there are edge cases where you can confuse software with open file descriptors, or because of the "text file busy" error you get when trying to write to a descriptor with PROT_EXEC mapped regions. Dec 16 22:53:13 <`krstnsn> i dont know why i said window Dec 16 22:53:24 <`krstnsn> ive found 2 more people that this is happening to Dec 16 22:53:29 Making sure the new file is a new inode is just good practice. Dec 16 22:54:25 woo hoo it worked thanks so much guys Dec 16 22:54:51 don't thank me, a good cussing out is all i need. ;) Dec 16 22:55:05 don't confuse me with that guy Dec 16 22:55:18 <`krstnsn> ? Dec 16 22:55:27 just ooc does the framework (well.. by way of bionic) use /etc/hosts? Dec 16 22:56:10 I know that it *doesn't* use resolv.conf -- it's hard-coded to use a system property instead. Dec 16 22:56:21 mmmm... ad-free web browsing Dec 16 22:56:22 yah Dec 16 22:56:45 * Disconnect has been pondering privoxy or similar Dec 16 22:57:11 although.. i wonder.. with oilcan.. might be possible to hack up an abp clone for it, in js Dec 16 22:57:17 privoxy may be a bit big Dec 16 22:57:35 hmm ~600k, not too bad Dec 16 22:58:31 Heh, "a bit big". :) I deployed my first web application on a device (~200MHz UltraSparc II with 96M of memory) that was objectively slower and smaller than the G1. Dec 16 22:58:59 privoxy is bloated, and not really a web app :P Dec 16 22:59:05 but had better memory bandwidth :p Dec 16 22:59:13 Somebody implemented a web server on a PIC once. I thought that was over-doing it. Dec 16 22:59:13 woooo .. new version of the HL2 Empires Mod Dec 16 22:59:23 *yoink* Dec 16 22:59:30 andyross: an ultra 1/200e? :) Dec 16 22:59:50 http://virtuelvis.com/archives/2003/05/ps-httpd Dec 16 22:59:58 Now you're trying to pin me down on specifics I don't remember. I'm trying to say Ultra 5, but that might be a different box.. Dec 16 23:00:01 I have a SPARC Ultra1 with Gentoo 64-Bit running on it :) Dec 16 23:00:06 DJTachyon: Empires mod really needs polish : ( Dec 16 23:00:16 vol: it's still fun :) .. Dec 16 23:00:19 it feels like a half-assed tribes mod last time I tried it (a few months ago) Dec 16 23:00:33 it can be fun, but it can be awful annoying when your team is terrible Dec 16 23:00:40 especially since the "hello newbies" server is the only one that ever has players Dec 16 23:00:43 though my wife and I played a good round of Left4Dead last night .. if anybody has Left4Dead for Stream, PM me your email :) Dec 16 23:00:48 * sparkle nods - the u5 was the sapphire IIi series - sea lion project :) Dec 16 23:00:57 I want to get L4D, but haven't had any sort of time lately Dec 16 23:01:05 * vol is completely missing out : ( Dec 16 23:01:07 ill sell you a copy for $37.50 :) Dec 16 23:01:20 sparkle: you were at Sun at the time, maybe? Dec 16 23:01:22 i have one left from the 4-pack i bought Dec 16 23:01:23 :\ Dec 16 23:02:20 vol: have you already tried the new version of empires? Dec 16 23:02:26 not yet Dec 16 23:02:29 using the Orange Box Engine, new camo, etc.. Dec 16 23:02:31 are there substantial changes? Dec 16 23:02:35 hmm Dec 16 23:03:02 fixed the nuke heat bug and regen/bio bug .. and a lot of rebalanacing Dec 16 23:03:07 FWIW: looks from bionic/libc/netbsd/net/getaddrinfo.c that the /etc/hosts path and parsing is unchanged. Dec 16 23:03:19 doh. finally found the homepage i was actually looking for. http://www.pugo.org/main/project_pshttpd/ Dec 16 23:03:45 well im gonna give the new empires a whirl .. later ;) Dec 16 23:04:27 hey Dec 16 23:04:34 andyross: not exactly though i did work with them Dec 16 23:04:36 can android run FLAC audio? Dec 16 23:06:39 hmm, that's scary.. phone is losing battery power significantly faster today while asleep Dec 16 23:06:45 hmm Dec 16 23:07:05 zinx: are you running anything that would drain power? Dec 16 23:07:11 nope Dec 16 23:07:14 anything running with a wake lock? Dec 16 23:07:22 have you tried the power manager app? Dec 16 23:07:23 IM/Dialer/Browser are running Dec 16 23:07:31 hey i keep getting this Dec 16 23:07:32 adb push bnep.ko /system Dec 16 23:07:32 failed to copy 'bnep.ko' to '/system/bnep.ko': No space left on device Dec 16 23:07:47 may just be the inaccurate power measurement.. will know sometime tomorrow :P Dec 16 23:08:05 d0netsFN: care to guess why? Dec 16 23:08:33 im scared to ask nw Dec 16 23:08:42 d0netsFN: it's because there's no space left. Dec 16 23:08:53 lol yea disconnect said that earlier Dec 16 23:09:07 ..maybe you should do something about it Dec 16 23:09:25 right but i dont know where my space went Dec 16 23:09:37 i only adb pushed iptables Dec 16 23:09:42 d0netsFN: pastebin the output of "mount" and "df" Dec 16 23:09:47 k Dec 16 23:09:48 maybe you didn't have that much space to begin with Dec 16 23:09:49 I strongly suspect you're still mounted ro Dec 16 23:09:50 and btw Dec 16 23:09:59 i was opening a pastebin.com earlier and was about to "mount" Dec 16 23:10:00 andyross: nah, it would say Read only filesystem or somesuch Dec 16 23:10:07 after i pasted the instructions i was following Dec 16 23:10:12 when you guys started hatin Dec 16 23:10:32 Depends on the error path. Standard rule is to never trust error messages when there's a similar failure mode you can test out of band. Dec 16 23:10:41 andyross: he's on jf's so its prolly space Dec 16 23:10:48 It's the internet...you gotta be thick-skinned about it Dec 16 23:11:05 Ah, OK. Then indeed, you may need to make space. Dec 16 23:11:06 are there any files you hardly ever use on jf's that are big enough? Dec 16 23:11:37 http://pastebin.com/m372dca71 Dec 16 23:11:48 http://pastebin.com/m7955247b Dec 16 23:12:15 Smoking gun: "/system: 69120K total, 68976K used, 144K available (block size 4096)" Dec 16 23:12:59 that's a big kernel module Dec 16 23:13:18 something proprietary? Dec 16 23:13:53 lemme pastebin the folder and tell me if i might havent thrown something in there i shouldnt have Dec 16 23:14:16 probably just didn't have much room to begin with, d0netsFN Dec 16 23:14:25 http://pastebin.com/m108e14ac Dec 16 23:15:01 iptables might be more accessible in /system/bin Dec 16 23:15:55 The /system partition was designed to be ro, so it's packed pretty tight so as not to waste space. JF added a bunch of stuff (not sure what, I'm not running that image), which makes things more difficult. So you may need to play with stuff on your own. Maybe load the module from /cache, etc... Dec 16 23:16:48 :o Dec 16 23:17:17 fadden: Is there any way to request that java unload a shared library? Dec 16 23:17:26 or carve space out from the sdcard Dec 16 23:17:36 anyone here work with opengl ES? Dec 16 23:17:55 vol: have you ever seen dlclose() not cause havoc and mayhem? Dec 16 23:17:57 I have a very strong suspicion that this is related to globals that end up not being nulled out, because the lib is already loaded Dec 16 23:18:02 : \ Dec 16 23:18:09 vol: not reliably unless you first make sure that all objects referencing those classes are garbage collected first... Dec 16 23:18:21 mmm. Dec 16 23:18:34 But fadden's answer was better. Dec 16 23:18:38 it would require class unloading, which would only happen if all classes in a given classloader are gone. Dec 16 23:18:58 Dalvik doesn't currently support class unloading. Dec 16 23:18:59 man #android Dec 16 23:19:06 squeakypants: done some OpenGL non-ES stuff Dec 16 23:19:06 ... Dec 16 23:19:13 skyred: don't I wish I could do that at some point :\ Dec 16 23:19:22 zinx: how would i make a texture from an PNG file? Dec 16 23:19:25 fortunately, fadden/andyross are taking up the slack : ) Dec 16 23:19:32 Anyway, the bottom line is: no, you can't unload a shared object. Dec 16 23:19:39 boo Dec 16 23:19:43 squeakypants: TexImage2D or something along those lines? Dec 16 23:19:43 hmm Dec 16 23:19:48 time to fix the aformentioned shitty code :\ Dec 16 23:19:49 I'm doing you a favor here, trust me. :-) Dec 16 23:19:52 yeah Dec 16 23:19:56 the biggest problem I have is Dec 16 23:19:57 zinx: glTexImage2D? Dec 16 23:19:59 squeakypants: dunno if Android has any special image upload stuff :/ Dec 16 23:20:02 I have no idea how many of these globals are just floating around Dec 16 23:20:02 squeakypants: yeah Dec 16 23:20:04 waiting to cause trouble later Dec 16 23:20:20 vol: System.exit() Dec 16 23:20:28 I hate to say it, but we're actually using that : ) Dec 16 23:20:32 squeakypants: you may need to set the min/mag filters if you have no mipmaps, or just tell it to generate mipmaps Dec 16 23:20:38 unfortunately, due to crashes, we sometimes don't reach onDestroy Dec 16 23:20:40 squeakypants: if the min/mag filters are wrong you will just get white ;) Dec 16 23:20:48 zinx: i see Dec 16 23:20:58 squeakypants: OpenGL doesn't do image formats (cue peanut gallery to talk about compressed textures here). You upload textures from memory buffers you get from wherever you want, eg. libpng. Dec 16 23:20:59 zinx: but glTexImage2D doesn't take a png :-/ Dec 16 23:21:20 squeakypants: also if you don't have 2d textures enabled you'll not get the image Dec 16 23:21:24 andyross: right... is libpng in android? Dec 16 23:21:34 Yes, but it's in a different library. libagl, I think? Dec 16 23:22:11 squeakypants: it takes a raw image buffer, ya, that's OpenGL for you Dec 16 23:22:19 zinx: mmm Dec 16 23:22:52 * sparkle sighs Dec 16 23:22:56 OpenGL is a hardware abstraction library. 3D hardware doesn't (yet) do png decoding. Dec 16 23:23:09 right Dec 16 23:23:20 (cue peanut gallery to point me to the inevitable PNG decoder in CUDA or whatnot) Dec 16 23:23:28 someone remind me why i became a sysadmin Dec 16 23:23:34 oh hey Dec 16 23:23:36 sparkle: for the lulz Dec 16 23:23:45 squeakypants: check out android.opengl.GLUtils Dec 16 23:23:50 was it the fame, the respect, the easygoing lifestyle Dec 16 23:23:53 sparkle, because you have no people skills? Dec 16 23:23:56 i know! it must've been the groupies Dec 16 23:24:00 squeakypants: it will take an android Bitmap Dec 16 23:24:12 zinx: oooh thanks! Dec 16 23:24:24 ha Dec 16 23:24:47 i've got your people skills right here Dec 16 23:24:56 inside this wiring closet Dec 16 23:25:00 at the far end Dec 16 23:25:12 careful, the lights don't work... Dec 16 23:31:58 lol Dec 16 23:32:27 thanks zinx :) Dec 16 23:32:34 Simon Travaglia, is that you? Dec 16 23:32:48 ha Dec 16 23:42:04 * mikey| has finally set up his bnc for this chan Dec 16 23:42:23 heh Dec 16 23:42:36 mikey|: can you setup some fserves and xdcc bots next? Dec 16 23:42:46 lol Dec 16 23:43:31 * ctate feels old. to him, 'BNC' implies 10baseT.... Dec 16 23:43:34 i still always think of 'BNC' as a type of connector, and don't think people realize it's used to mean 'irc proxy' only because there's a popular irc proxy named bnc :x Dec 16 23:43:41 ha, timing Dec 16 23:43:57 man. phone still has not shipped. Dec 16 23:44:10 one of the many script-kiddie irc proxies Dec 16 23:44:26 i think dircproxy is the only one i've seen that doesn't fit in to that category though, imho :P Dec 16 23:44:57 I like bip Dec 16 23:45:05 haven't tried that one Dec 16 23:45:08 is anyone here also at the Android meetup in NYC? Dec 16 23:45:26 I've been using bip for almost 3 years Dec 16 23:45:57 zinx: http://www.travishartwell.net/blog/2006/04/20_1810 Dec 16 23:45:58 well, it's irssi proxy, not bnc or psych Dec 16 23:46:02 bnc * Dec 16 23:46:38 ctate: it's not just ethernet :P Dec 16 23:47:13 ctate: for me 'bnc' reminds of ol' good oscilloscope-fun times :) Dec 16 23:47:34 wpk: that's another good kinda bnc. Dec 16 23:48:00 anyone used disconnects tethering tutorial? Dec 16 23:48:02 grey-: the same BNC, different use :) Dec 16 23:48:24 hehe. Dec 16 23:52:35 * SanMehat uses bnc for audio sync :) Dec 16 23:52:47 sample-rate clock sync rather :) Dec 16 23:54:32 <_Lunch> What's the best way to load a resource as a Bitmap? Dec 16 23:55:07 is it possible to change the default sound encoding format of android from amr to something else? or is this application specific? Dec 16 23:55:30 huh? and here i thought the default encoding was vorbis :P Dec 16 23:56:23 orci: it's likely application-specific Dec 16 23:56:57 twbray: I noticed your tweet. Working on anything fun? Dec 16 23:57:23 Nafai: don't know yet Dec 16 23:58:00 * twbray is an android n00b Dec 16 23:58:48 Me too :) Dec 16 23:59:14 * grey- pwnz up twbray and Nafai. Dec 16 23:59:21 w00t fragged. Dec 16 23:59:23 newbz. Dec 16 23:59:57 grey-: wtf? Dec 17 00:00:16 ;) Dec 17 00:01:49 irc proxies.. pfft, i just use screen :P Dec 17 00:01:50 I unfortunately haven't had time to start coding jsut yet Dec 17 00:03:10 twbray: FWIW, this channel has mostly become the "I want to h@x0r the platform sourcE" channel; you can also check out #android-dev for app/SDK questions Dec 17 00:03:37 morrildl: Noticed that. But it's kinda entertaining here. Dec 17 00:03:47 twbray: indeed :) Dec 17 00:03:52 * JesusFreke h@k0rs the platform sourcE Dec 17 00:04:14 * JesusFreke can't spell h@xors Dec 17 00:04:35 * JesusFreke can't spell h@x0rs Dec 17 00:04:42 see? :P Dec 17 00:04:42 zinx, I wish it was vorbis Dec 17 00:04:58 zinx, I would have no problem running it on my GNU/Linux box Dec 17 00:05:04 orci: all the stock t-mobile ringtones are vorbis, if nothing else :/ Dec 17 00:05:24 perplexingly i think ringdroid doesn't know what vorbis is.. kinda strange Dec 17 00:05:38 zinx, android does not seem to have any problem reading vorbis but encoding is another issue I guess Dec 17 00:05:53 yeah Dec 17 00:06:01 does the cpu have floating point? Dec 17 00:06:35 zinx: not in the G1 Dec 17 00:06:54 speaking of haxoring the source, any new and interesting developments? Dec 17 00:06:55 yeah, not sure if tremor does encoding or not Dec 17 00:07:10 I can't keep up with xda-developers, or other BBS-styled websystems. Dec 17 00:07:12 can ringdroid record voice without a time constraint? Dec 17 00:07:14 unless they have rss/atom. Dec 17 00:07:38 orci: i uninstalled it when i saw it couldn't read vorbis ;) Dec 17 00:07:59 grey-: meee too Dec 17 00:08:15 errr, in the past week. I've been sick and my feeds don't look like there's much new news. Dec 17 00:08:18 need phpbb and the other popular forum softwares to add RSS Dec 17 00:08:24 zinx, I had uninstalled it when I saw it could not record more than a minute or so Dec 17 00:08:24 engineering bootloader was last. Dec 17 00:08:35 zinx: yeah; bbs w/o syndication = lame. Dec 17 00:09:06 whats the easiest tethering method? Dec 17 00:09:55 tethering? (googles) Dec 17 00:09:59 d0nets: http://forums.tmonews.com.s52300.gridserver.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=a2683ebc52e0581e6610a1d8f7332b61&topic=5006.msg75785#msg75785 maybe? Dec 17 00:10:58 huh Dec 17 00:11:02 http proxy... Dec 17 00:11:05 kinda ghetto. Dec 17 00:11:12 but I guess would work for somethings. Dec 17 00:11:29 * grey- already has a keyboard, ssh client and web browser on his g1; not sure what tethering would buy him. Dec 17 00:11:57 grey-: playing your MMORPG over 3G? Dec 17 00:12:07 grey-: flash Dec 17 00:12:07 zinx: my MMORPH? Dec 17 00:12:15 zinx: OH you mean MUD? Yeah I gave those up. Dec 17 00:12:18 i'd like to note here that tethering is against t-mobile's TOS :) Dec 17 00:12:21 Disconnect: true... Dec 17 00:12:22 grey-: MMUD! Dec 17 00:12:32 grey-: with pretty graphics Dec 17 00:12:34 zinx: where? Dec 17 00:12:47 Disconnect: erh sorry, T&C Dec 17 00:12:51 but hey, the g1 has Parallel Kingdom Dec 17 00:12:54 zinx: tethering has been against pretty much every carrier's ToS. But never stopped things from appearing for windows mobile, iphone, etc. Dec 17 00:13:06 Disconnect: http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditions&print=true Dec 17 00:13:17 Disconnect: well soon android will have flash as well I guess; so w00t youporn on the go! Dec 17 00:13:19 29.1 Dec 17 00:13:35 "Unless explicitly permitted by your Data Plan" .. Dec 17 00:14:19 the two data plans available to G1 users don't explicitly permit that ;) Dec 17 00:15:14 http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/ Dec 17 00:18:41 t-mobile gave me a strange reason that why I cannot unlock my phone. they said my specific phone might need more time to be unlocked Dec 17 00:19:13 Huh? Dec 17 00:19:29 orci: it needs time. GIVE IT TIME! Dec 17 00:19:44 they said they have to receive something from htc before they can actually put a request for an unlock code Dec 17 00:19:47 orci: though afaik, if you've been a tmobile customer in good standing for over 90 days you should be able to get your g1 unlocked. Dec 17 00:20:02 orci: uhhh... I have friends who got unlock codes from tmobile for their g1's. Dec 17 00:20:11 the call center operator could not really describe what that thing was Dec 17 00:20:21 orci: use the hang-up call again until you get someone competant. Dec 17 00:20:27 orci: many people in call centers are douchebags. Dec 17 00:20:32 took me about 2 days to get my unlock code Dec 17 00:20:50 I am in good standing more than a year now Dec 17 00:20:53 orci: some are lazy and will misdirect you so they can stay that way. Dec 17 00:21:01 I did not have problem unocking my older phone after 90 days Dec 17 00:21:08 orci: others are lazy and will do things you ask even if they shouldn't to not deal with you. Dec 17 00:21:13 orci: you want the second kind of lazy. ;) Dec 17 00:21:49 grey-, the lady offered to re ask for the unlock code in 10 days Dec 17 00:21:57 automatically Dec 17 00:22:17 They'll re ask and let me know this is what they claimed Dec 17 00:22:24 orci: re-ask. Dec 17 00:22:30 orci: I say call back, talk to someone else. Dec 17 00:23:14 just call, go for g1/blackberry support, and ask. they'll get an email addy and you should have the code w/in 2 days Dec 17 00:23:30 grey-, problem is that I do not feel very comfortable speaking in English. They can easily overwhelm me with their speaking Dec 17 00:23:56 Ahh. Dec 17 00:24:00 is there an email support? Dec 17 00:24:07 with at&t you could email request an unlock code. Dec 17 00:24:09 which was handy. Dec 17 00:24:22 I didn't realize you could get an unlock code Dec 17 00:24:36 grey-, i e-mailed them too but that ended up with an e-mail saying that t-mobile has done everything possible to get a code from htc Dec 17 00:24:39 obra: it'll be seriously easier if you make sure you are in g1/blackberry support Dec 17 00:24:52 they are kind of blaming htc for not receiving a code Dec 17 00:24:53 orci: lame. Dec 17 00:24:59 weird. Dec 17 00:25:07 that sounds flat out wrong. Dec 17 00:25:12 afaik they get them as needed from htc to begin with Dec 17 00:25:15 orci: I will say I had a friend who got a g1 Dec 17 00:25:23 orci: and they wanted him to have it for two weeks before giving him a code. Dec 17 00:25:25 so its not "oh no they didnt' send it" its "ok we'll request it for you" Dec 17 00:25:33 orci: even though he'd been a tmobile customer for years. Dec 17 00:25:45 orci: so maybe there is some weird waiting thing. Dec 17 00:25:54 orci: and it's true, even when I got a phone on at&t unlocked. Dec 17 00:26:03 orci: it took about a week or so from the time I requested until I got the code. Dec 17 00:26:24 will at&t give an unlock code for the iphone? Dec 17 00:26:37 Fredbo: no idea. Dec 17 00:26:47 Fredbo: supposedly after 90 days they will give unlock codes. Dec 17 00:26:54 Fredbo: but I didn't have an iphone, so no idea. Dec 17 00:27:05 most companies will give the unlock code if you bother them enough Dec 17 00:27:18 basically, don't back down :/ Dec 17 00:27:41 a lot of call centers, they can't hang up on you unless you cuss or something Dec 17 00:28:00 hmm.. i just bought my phone already unlocked Dec 17 00:28:04 and they want to get you off the phone, because they're rated on time spent per call as well Dec 17 00:28:22 snadge: heheh. Dec 17 00:28:23 or you could ask for a supervisor Dec 17 00:28:26 when will the android get flash? Dec 17 00:28:31 Fredbo: ya. but you have to ask 3 times. ;) Dec 17 00:28:31 But it did not make sense to me that they did not want to give it to me. I am already tied down for two more years. i have been a good customer last year since I became a t-mob cusotmer. and they already gave me an unlck code for my older phone and saw that i continued with them. Why wouldn't they want to give me an unlock code for g1? Dec 17 00:28:57 orci: You can pay $15 or so, and have it by tomorrow Dec 17 00:29:19 i would never pay any of those unlock companies a dime :/ Dec 17 00:29:26 zinx: same. Dec 17 00:29:30 it's frigging lame. Dec 17 00:29:37 snadge, that wbesite yeah, I heard about that. I have a tendency not to trust those things somehow Dec 17 00:29:38 and because of those companies, the methods aren't public Dec 17 00:29:41 because there's money to be made. Dec 17 00:29:45 they're about the same level as spammers as far as i'm concerned Dec 17 00:29:49 orci: they work. Dec 17 00:29:51 but fuck 'em. Dec 17 00:30:33 mind you, i don't need my phone unlocked either Dec 17 00:30:38 why do carrier companies lock the phones if they can tie the customer for a year or more? Dec 17 00:30:47 orci: hahah Dec 17 00:30:50 orci: Managers, is my guess Dec 17 00:30:51 orci: excellent question. Dec 17 00:31:23 orci: it puts another speedbump in front of migrating away. Dec 17 00:31:35 hi Dec 17 00:31:46 also Dec 17 00:31:48 orci: http://www.unlock-tmobileg1.com/ .. in case you're interested.. that one will work Dec 17 00:31:49 if you travel internationally... Dec 17 00:31:53 and remmeber nobody knows you can copy contacts/settings/etc.. Dec 17 00:31:54 they want to rape you on roaming charges. Dec 17 00:32:00 Disconnect, but it is making my experience further away from excellence as well Dec 17 00:32:03 instead of buying a prepaid sim. Dec 17 00:32:16 grey-: tmob has been awesome for me roaming in the caribbean and costa rica Dec 17 00:32:25 grey-: what $10/MB is totally not rape! Dec 17 00:32:28 and canadia too come to think of it Dec 17 00:32:42 hi Dec 17 00:33:22 zinx: haha Dec 17 00:33:27 Disconnect: yeah, I'm sure it's not terrible. Dec 17 00:33:33 Disconnect: but as a general rule. Dec 17 00:33:39 like... Dec 17 00:33:42 at&t has this thing Dec 17 00:33:45 i totally use unlocked phones.. ALWAYS.. even if i was on a contract, which im not.. i'd unlock my phone, its the principle of it ;) Dec 17 00:33:49 where if you request special international roaming rates. Dec 17 00:33:50 you get them Dec 17 00:33:54 otherwise, it's rape-land. Dec 17 00:33:56 grey-: could could download at least 10 emails for $10, if they were text only with no html formatting or pictures... Dec 17 00:33:56 it's weird. Dec 17 00:34:01 s/could/you/ Dec 17 00:34:08 there might've been a one time charge or soemthing I don't remember. Dec 17 00:34:08 grey-: what a bargain! Dec 17 00:34:20 do you guys think I can go and talk to somebody from tmob in person regarding this? Dec 17 00:34:20 snadge: aye. Dec 17 00:34:24 I am close to boston Dec 17 00:34:28 when i travel internationally .. i have two phones, my normal phone.. which is on roaming / rape charges.. and a second phone, with a prepaid sim in it, which i actually use if i need to Dec 17 00:34:30 massachusetts, usa Dec 17 00:34:34 zinx: hehe, hey compuserve used to charge about that. ;) Dec 17 00:34:43 orci: in person won't have anyting. they can barely sell you a phone. Dec 17 00:34:52 zinx: albeit, I didn't pay for that shit either. Dec 17 00:35:09 anyone found a decent to-do app? Dec 17 00:35:29 Disconnect, problem is that they can overwhelm a non-native English speaker on the phone but not face to face Dec 17 00:35:44 orci: hmmm Dec 17 00:35:51 seriously, the g1/blackberry 'smartphone' group is much better. for one, they are expected to be on the phone a long time Dec 17 00:35:53 orci: can you go to a tmobile store and have them do it for you? Dec 17 00:36:01 orci: sometimes places will be chill like that. Dec 17 00:36:14 orci: the people in the stores here can't do anything themselves, but they *CAN* call up the support line and do it for you - give the right information/etc Dec 17 00:36:24 grey-, yeah that's what I was asking. not sure if tmob shops handle this kind of requests Dec 17 00:36:34 zinx, I see Dec 17 00:36:35 orci: they seem to here Dec 17 00:36:35 orci: dunno, they might though! Dec 17 00:37:59 zinx, looks like a good idea. I'll definitely try that tomorrow Dec 17 00:38:15 the local tmo store is like a cross between a rave party and a nursing home. Dec 17 00:38:25 Versed: lol Dec 17 00:38:47 they get the younge ones and seniors. Dec 17 00:38:51 young Dec 17 00:42:59 http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/10/t-mobile-produces-official-statement-regarding-international-g1/ if apps can turn on roaming that's dangerous. is there an easy way to see which applications I have do that? Dec 17 00:43:04 (insert whinging about a lack of android irc client here) Dec 17 00:44:15 dugATwork: you can use nyt's client Dec 17 00:44:17 orci: applications that can change system settings. This'll be tightened in a future release. Dec 17 00:44:26 url? Dec 17 00:44:44 http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/downloads/list Dec 17 00:44:47 layin' the smackdown on those developers. Dec 17 00:45:15 whoa Dec 17 00:45:21 zinx: a divx of irc?! Dec 17 00:45:23 rad. Dec 17 00:45:32 jbq, thanks. Is there a way to see the milestones or developments to a future release? I mean is there a rss feed or something that I can follow so i could have idea about if a next release is soon Dec 17 00:45:54 for the high-level: http://source.android.com/roadmap Dec 17 00:46:14 whoa spiffy...thanks :D Dec 17 00:46:14 mmm IME's ftw. Dec 17 00:46:17 im more interested in when JF is going to release the patched versions :P Dec 17 00:46:24 snadge: ?? Dec 17 00:46:24 :p Dec 17 00:46:31 how often do u guys travel overseas? ive never been over seas =( Dec 17 00:46:32 For the source-level details http://android.git.kernel.org/ (not very active until google's internal code makes it in there) Dec 17 00:46:43 snadge: that's only useful for g1 people, but android as a whole needs more than JesusFreke haxing. ;) Dec 17 00:46:46 well theres no point in installing ANY OTA updates.. if they're going to disable root access on my phone Dec 17 00:46:55 FFForever: at least once a year, often more. Dec 17 00:46:58 FFForever: before 9/11 every 6 months, since then every 2 years. Dec 17 00:47:23 how is london i have always wanted to go there Dec 17 00:47:28 jbq: it hasn't really gotten much worst post 9-11 in any practical sense. But egads, why come back to the US? ;) Dec 17 00:47:28 also, what is the difference between the boot loader on the adp1 and the engineering bootloader? Dec 17 00:47:40 grey-: for the food, obviouslyi Dec 17 00:47:41 i want to see Ireland while I'm still young and semi-attractive :P Dec 17 00:47:43 there an ETA on widget API? Dec 17 00:47:55 ;) Dec 17 00:48:24 dugATwork, its 2 late? Dec 17 00:48:33 FFForever, I see mom and dad every year Dec 17 00:48:38 ctate: ;) Dec 17 00:48:51 grey-: it got a fair bit worse, e.g. not being able to renew visas from within the US. Dec 17 00:48:54 can i use google widgets in the home screen? Dec 17 00:49:19 jbq: lame. Dec 17 00:49:24 jbq: the U.S. that is. Dec 17 00:49:30 jbq: are you a non-US citizen? Dec 17 00:50:15 grey-: I'm French, living in the US. Dec 17 00:50:29 what is more of a police state Britain or the US? Dec 17 00:50:34 (non-immigrant) Dec 17 00:50:42 FFForever: well the U.S. is more of a prison-state it turns out. Dec 17 00:50:51 FFForever: how that relates to the police is unknown. ;) Dec 17 00:50:58 lol Dec 17 00:51:02 FFForever: I don't travel through UK any more, too many annoyances. Dec 17 00:51:19 how is it over there ive always wanted 2 go lol Dec 17 00:51:29 in the US? Dec 17 00:51:34 no the uk Dec 17 00:51:38 i am in los angeles lol Dec 17 00:52:30 heh, k. Dec 17 00:53:46 how is the uk different from the us there we go XD Dec 17 00:53:55 besides currency and us having bush.... Dec 17 00:54:07 FFForever: there are like 3 widgets for Android right now.. because they have to be built in to Launcher :/ Dec 17 00:54:09 i was just in the UK a few weeks ago, and then the USA afterwards.. so i can tell you from an australian perspective :P Dec 17 00:54:25 ok XD Dec 17 00:54:32 i might add, that i considered los angeles.. to be the worst place we visited in the USA Dec 17 00:54:38 zinx, that sucks =( Dec 17 00:54:43 i love my reddit widget on igoogle lol Dec 17 00:54:51 FFForever: yeah, but a widget API is forthcoming, just dunno when it'll hit Dec 17 00:55:05 FFForever: should have every type of widget imaginable when it does though ;) Dec 17 00:55:05 the best thing i can think about LA .. is the medical marijuana.. if they get rid of that, they mas as well demolish LA ;) Dec 17 00:55:07 snadge, where did u go in la? Dec 17 00:55:25 well we stayed in anaheim, but we travelled around a bit.. went to hollywood etc Dec 17 00:55:41 anaheim is not the best..... Dec 17 00:55:54 and hollywood is ok i guess depending on where u go XD Dec 17 00:58:11 did a few touristy things, saw the tar pits.. the chinese theatre (mannys or whatever).. went up to the hollywood sign and took photos :P visited a friend who hooked us up with some of that government funded buds.. wow!!! disney is so much more fun after you've smoked some californian bud Dec 17 00:58:59 snadge, u have an awesome friend lol mine are lame Dec 17 00:59:13 disney land is lame =] Dec 17 01:01:32 well i gtg cya ppl Dec 17 01:09:09 yes.. yes.. disney is lame, but i never went as a child.. and a friend i was travelling with was insistant that we must go Dec 17 01:09:42 I think I've managed to corrupt something. When I attempt to do an "adb install", it simply hands and never finishes. Uninstall hangs too. I can shell in without issue. Dec 17 01:09:46 any ideas? Dec 17 01:10:07 BlindOracle: tried rebooting phone? Dec 17 01:10:33 ttuttle: yes, but I'm happy to do it again Dec 17 01:10:37 rebooting phone... Dec 17 01:10:39 BlindOracle: Nah, that's okay. Dec 17 01:11:01 ttuttle: too late... ;) Dec 17 01:12:03 ttuttle: btw, when you download an application, where does it place the apps at - I assume they are cached some place? Dec 17 01:13:05 hey guys Dec 17 01:13:06 BlindOracle: /data/app Dec 17 01:13:08 chouman82: hey Dec 17 01:13:21 anyone of u worked with overlay? Dec 17 01:13:35 actually itemizedoverlay Dec 17 01:13:42 having trouble to get the marker to show up Dec 17 01:13:50 chouman82: Never tried it, sorry. Dec 17 01:13:54 jbq_: greetings! Dec 17 01:13:56 so is bluetooth tethering coming to g1 yet? :P pan and usb networking support.. etc Dec 17 01:13:57 arghhh Dec 17 01:14:04 hey ttuttle Dec 17 01:14:08 seems like it should be easy Dec 17 01:14:12 is there any way to use the virtual keypad in the dialer? Dec 17 01:14:13 snadge: patches accepted, etc. Dec 17 01:14:47 ok.. patch will be there in about an hour, since im a self proclaimed android and bluetooth expert ;) Dec 17 01:14:49 snadge: we're going to HK Disneyland this weekend - friend who works there got us a couple of freebie tickets Dec 17 01:15:07 finally I have won my battle with the evil that is fedex and my adp1 is in my hands Dec 17 01:15:17 Captain_Dingo: Congratulations! Dec 17 01:16:15 my fedex driver is apparently illiterate as well as lazy Dec 17 01:16:20 but it doesn't matter now Dec 17 01:16:50 hmm Dec 17 01:17:01 it's noteworthy that the keypad in dialer is completely different than the one in calculator Dec 17 01:17:02 ttuttle: hmmm...same problem...I guess i'll reboot host Dec 17 01:17:11 ttuttle: unless you have other ideas? Dec 17 01:18:14 BlindOracle: None right now, sorry. Dec 17 01:18:19 BlindOracle: I don't think rebooting the host would help. Dec 17 01:18:44 k thanks Dec 17 01:18:55 squeakypants: calculator / phone keypads have always been that way Dec 17 01:19:18 zinx: is there any way to use them? Dec 17 01:19:36 zinx: a KeypadView would be nice ;) Dec 17 01:20:32 squeakypants: KeyCharacterMap? Dec 17 01:20:46 no version on that though.. Dec 17 01:21:32 zinx: that looks like something to interface with a custom View or hardware Dec 17 01:22:14 guess so :( Dec 17 01:22:26 zinx: oh well :/ thanks anyway Dec 17 01:22:45 squeakypants: rip the source from the dialer / calculator (but make sure you're following licenses :P ) Dec 17 01:22:46 anyone figure out yet how to hook the voice dialer back up to the send button? Dec 17 01:23:34 zinx: i'm in windows heh Dec 17 01:23:52 zinx: though i'll probably install ubuntu again... this pc is dead Dec 17 01:24:01 squeakypants: hmm, i am pretty sure you can get the source in windows too, though not certain Dec 17 01:24:27 it only has instructions for linux and osx Dec 17 01:24:36 heh i guess they figure if you're in windows you wouldn't be of any help anyway ;) Dec 17 01:24:38 :( Dec 17 01:24:59 i think right now git on windows is only doable through cygwin Dec 17 01:25:12 squeakypants: you could point&click compile stuff! Dec 17 01:31:10 ttuttle: I guess my usb got confused/hosed - rebooted seems to have fixed the issue Dec 17 01:31:18 BlindOracle: Wow, cool. Dec 17 01:49:37 man, the G1 at max brightness is annoyingly bright. Dec 17 01:52:12 unix_remote: Yeah. Dec 17 01:53:13 better than dim Dec 17 01:53:57 Disconnect: true Dec 17 01:54:03 Oh, also... Dec 17 01:54:05 unix_remote: Turn it down? Dec 17 01:56:07 10% brightness ftw Dec 17 01:57:12 for my package names, should i use my domain? Dec 17 01:57:26 like us.space-lab.project? Dec 17 01:57:29 ivantis: Yes. Dec 17 01:57:34 space-lab.us is my domain Dec 17 01:57:49 still downloading eclipse Dec 17 01:58:46 loo Dec 17 02:09:05 * zinx keeps his brightness turned all the way down Dec 17 02:09:18 bestskinsever > zagg? Dec 17 02:09:24 Humm. I grabbed some source (for AlarmClock) and it seems DataFormat is missing. Dec 17 02:09:33 Has something recently changed with DateFormat? Dec 17 02:10:12 Or even better, is there a place where AlarmClock is already packaged up (like an AlarmClock nightly?) Dec 17 02:10:26 damn, why did i order the expensive ass zagg things... they even got bad reviews :p bestskinsever has free shipping and is quarter the price Dec 17 02:10:57 (I'm after the ascending volume feature.) Dec 17 02:11:09 dunno Dec 17 02:11:14 bad reviews? Dec 17 02:11:15 maybe ask in #android-dev Dec 17 02:11:22 thanks. Dec 17 02:11:24 I noticed there was klaxon or soemthing in the marketplace Dec 17 02:11:31 whcih was basically identical to alarm clock Dec 17 02:11:37 and seems useless as a result. Dec 17 02:11:44 welcome to the open source world ;) Dec 17 02:11:52 I've only ever heard really good things about zagg's stuff, at least as far as screen protectors go Dec 17 02:11:54 fyi.. bb sage is 1/4 the price of g1 and can prolly be gotten with free shipping. ;) Dec 17 02:11:57 Disconnect, i've read some people not liking it @ xda Dec 17 02:11:57 * Disconnect is a huge fan Dec 17 02:12:06 Disconnect, okay, nice to hear :) Dec 17 02:12:25 hmmm Dec 17 02:12:32 the scoreboard app is taking up a lot of CPU on my phone Dec 17 02:12:32 eldenz: got an associate link originally to save on ones for me and the wif Dec 17 02:12:36 and its in the background Dec 17 02:12:53 Disconnect, what? are you looking for a discount code? Dec 17 02:13:15 AlarmClock is nice, but in the morning it starts at full volume (which seems unadjustable. ) My wife nearly leaped out of bed. Dec 17 02:13:57 eldenz: no. Dec 17 02:14:44 think i got it ;) i ordered 3 and got 30% :) Dec 17 02:14:47 interesting. the system is in a never-ending loop stopping the scoreboard app Dec 17 02:14:47 is there any reason for me to tell tmob the IMEI (or anything else) now that my adp1 is up and running, or is it fine to just switch the SIM and go? Dec 17 02:15:01 will use the 2nd as spare and sell the 3rd Dec 17 02:15:47 Captain_Dingo: i think switching the SIM is probably enough. they can tell you have a different IMEI though, if they care Dec 17 02:15:49 and something is gc'ing like mad Dec 17 02:15:58 grey-: thanks there are a couple of alarm clock things in the market - Good Call. Dec 17 02:16:30 bb sage? Dec 17 02:16:47 zinx: that was the part I wasn't sure of.. if they'd care. Everything's working fine (or at least as fine as it seems to here... 3G service is MUCH better downtown Denver than where I am) Dec 17 02:18:27 Captain_Dingo: tmob doesn't care. i switch phones periodically, this is the first tmob phone i've had in most of forever Dec 17 02:18:36 they'll know for sure tomorrow when my G1 goes back :) Dec 17 02:19:01 that might be a hint :) Dec 17 02:19:26 haha Dec 17 02:19:33 Captain_Dingo: didja get your adp1? Dec 17 02:19:51 yep Dec 17 02:20:38 Captain_Dingo: any noticeable differences? Dec 17 02:20:45 which eclipse do i want? Dec 17 02:20:49 has anyone written up any comparisons yet if they're starting to arrive? Dec 17 02:20:49 eclipse classic? Dec 17 02:20:57 grey-: my site, jf did one Dec 17 02:21:15 Disconnect: remind me your site name? Dec 17 02:21:19 http://www.gotontheinter.net/content/android-developer-phone-1 Dec 17 02:21:20 I need to add it to my feeds. Dec 17 02:21:23 rad, thx. Dec 17 02:21:25 easier to remember, sigkill.net Dec 17 02:21:36 or wait.. Dec 17 02:21:42 do you not have rss/atom/etc. syndication? Dec 17 02:21:45 * grey- looks around. Dec 17 02:21:54 on the left. where the big header says "Syndication" :) Dec 17 02:21:57 oh there it is. Dec 17 02:21:58 sweet Dec 17 02:22:12 and it has the headers, so ffx and such should have an rss logo Dec 17 02:22:36 added to google reader, sweeet! Dec 17 02:22:44 cool deal Dec 17 02:22:50 need google reader app for G1 :/ Dec 17 02:22:59 zinx: browser. ;) Dec 17 02:23:02 zinx: it's called 'browser' Dec 17 02:23:06 yah or at least a fixed greader-iphone that uses gears for offline and such Dec 17 02:23:07 zinx: though I did find an error... Dec 17 02:23:11 browsers don't notify! :P Dec 17 02:23:11 crashes android-chrome Dec 17 02:23:16 the brower version is a disaster Dec 17 02:23:17 when I go to reader.google.com Dec 17 02:23:22 recently anyway Dec 17 02:23:22 and go to the add subscription page. Dec 17 02:23:28 it crashes the browser. ;( Dec 17 02:23:35 eh, notification is pointless for any serious RSS user Dec 17 02:23:58 are google docs not editable using the normal browser? Dec 17 02:24:14 Leeds: you have 91823 new notifactions this minute! Dec 17 02:24:25 Captain_Dingo: haven't tried. Dec 17 02:24:32 "From your 80 subscriptions, over the last 30 days you read 12,596 items, starred 5 items, shared 0 items, and emailed 0 items." Dec 17 02:24:33 not like you have to make everything notify :/ Dec 17 02:24:46 the docs read nicely, but I couldn't find a way to edit Dec 17 02:25:23 plus i think an app would be easier to use than the browser Dec 17 02:25:50 browser + gears could be used as an app. but yah. i don't need to cache a ton of crap - old lists, news pages, ec. Dec 17 02:26:04 grey-: exactly Dec 17 02:26:11 i just need a window into the feeds with the ability to spawn a proper browser if i ask Dec 17 02:26:17 yep Dec 17 02:26:31 Disconnect: awww man, no myfaves?! ;P Dec 17 02:26:34 I ... Dec 17 02:26:41 didn't even realize that app was on my g1. Dec 17 02:26:50 * grey- wonders wtf it does. Dec 17 02:26:52 it hides if you don't have a faves plan i think Dec 17 02:27:03 what would be good would be a notification-specific reader, designed for feeds which contain 'alerts' rather than just regular news-type things... for example the Hong Kong Observatory (weather office) publishes weather alerts over RSS Dec 17 02:27:04 ah Dec 17 02:27:06 grey-: it runs in the background and sends SMS messages to T-Mobile. always. Dec 17 02:27:09 it shows the face-bubbles for calling faves. and it sends sms's every few minutes for international users :/ Dec 17 02:27:11 but I've got the myfaves silkscreen logo! Dec 17 02:27:12 heh Dec 17 02:27:18 zinx: sounds... awesome. Dec 17 02:27:35 Leeds: interesting idea Dec 17 02:27:45 why no voice dialer? Dec 17 02:27:50 tmob app Dec 17 02:27:54 weird Dec 17 02:28:04 "why no" always ends with "tmob app" on this list :) Dec 17 02:28:05 except pony Dec 17 02:28:14 is google going to release their own voice dialer/search thing a la iphone? Dec 17 02:28:18 Leeds: or just a reader that lets you turn on notifications per-feed (possibly with some even more granular filters) Dec 17 02:28:19 Disconnect: yeah, fucking pwnies. :( Dec 17 02:28:35 zinx: yes, but that would be getting too complex... simplify, man! Dec 17 02:28:49 Leeds: that.. doesn't sound to complex to me.. do you work for GNOME? Dec 17 02:28:56 http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/msg/87f1db3130851bd0 Dec 17 02:28:59 s/to /too / Dec 17 02:29:55 Disconnect: hahaha Dec 17 02:30:11 another thing which might be a good idea would be a generic feed-reading framework... so 'alert' readers, generic readers, podcatchers, etc. could all use it Dec 17 02:30:46 I would be happy with a listened tag support for reader gdata api Dec 17 02:30:46 Leeds: yes... Dec 17 02:30:54 Leeds: syndication could stand some improvements! Dec 17 02:31:02 rss itself Dec 17 02:31:04 is super weak Dec 17 02:31:06 my google reader has 216 subs... quite a few of them are inactive... but there's probably only 2 or 3 which I'd want alerts/notifications on Dec 17 02:31:07 atom is a bit better. Dec 17 02:31:20 hence 'feed-reading' rather than 'RSS-reading' :-) Dec 17 02:31:23 I would really like an aggergator. Dec 17 02:31:29 aggregator even Dec 17 02:31:37 which would maybe hash the content Dec 17 02:31:44 and make a best guess at stories I've already read. Dec 17 02:31:56 and mark other ones with the same hash as read once I've read it -once- Dec 17 02:32:07 yah. noble intent vs physorg vs.. :/ Dec 17 02:32:21 I could be wrong... but last time I looked, it didn't seem like google reader's API was *quite* complete enough to make a desktop reader which synced well with it Dec 17 02:32:23 I don't know of one that does it. Dec 17 02:32:36 google reader got off to a very shakey start. Dec 17 02:32:43 it's finally at the point where it's usable as an app on its own. Dec 17 02:32:47 but that's after a couple years. Dec 17 02:32:59 atom is meant to solve that, AFAIK, by passing a unique ID which is meant to persist across aggregators/reposts Dec 17 02:33:00 early attempts of using it made me prefer webkit to it, which is saying something since webkit isn't that hot. Dec 17 02:33:07 Leeds: right, rss has no unique id's. Dec 17 02:33:14 I don't know about sync, but it's just a javascript atom feed reader with some api calls to change tags Dec 17 02:33:16 sorry, google reader vs webkit? Dec 17 02:33:28 Leeds: but that said, when places re-blog things, you still don't want to read it. Dec 17 02:33:29 one is a web-based feed reader, the other is a web rendering engine Dec 17 02:34:00 Leeds: right but safari/webkit has rss/atom support that's decent for built-in (as opposed to firefox's livebookmarks which is utterly worthless since it doesn't even distinguish between read or not read) Dec 17 02:34:09 oh, okay Dec 17 02:34:22 ttrss is pretty nice but teh goog is faster Dec 17 02:34:28 I don't even consider using a 'desktop' reader, since I read at home, at work, on my phone, etc. Dec 17 02:34:44 Leeds: *nod* I have migrated to google reader. Dec 17 02:34:59 Leeds: but there's no reason you couldn't have readers sync between themselves with an rss feed itself. Dec 17 02:35:04 speaking of which, I really must go to work Dec 17 02:35:13 Leeds: e.g. have each reader spit out an atom feed, which they also aggregate. Dec 17 02:35:21 Leeds: and mark things read/etc. between multiple readers. Dec 17 02:35:26 grey-: better might be to have a reader publish a list of read id's Dec 17 02:35:28 phone/desktop/web. Dec 17 02:35:33 "I updated status on these items:" Dec 17 02:35:37 yes, that's what they *should* do - but unless you get the desktop reader and the web-based one from the same people (i.e. that mac one) it doesn't seem to work too well Dec 17 02:35:37 Disconnect: *nod* Dec 17 02:35:39 wouldn't be hard. Dec 17 02:35:49 Leeds: right, open standard to do it would be nice. Dec 17 02:36:01 Leeds: and the "I READ THIS ALREADY GODDAMNIT!" Dec 17 02:36:02 getting pretty meta :-) using a feed to sync the status of feeds between feed readers... Dec 17 02:36:05 that's a killer feature. ;) Dec 17 02:36:19 what if the sync feed goes out of sync? Dec 17 02:36:21 Leeds: well wouldn't have to do that, but figured it's one way they'd probably all be able to support easily. ;) Dec 17 02:36:45 Leeds: well in anything like that you run into potential problems (in old citadel networking you would refer to this as vortexing) with repeated or lost messages. Dec 17 02:36:46 Leeds: ..doesn't matter. either you get no data (fine, you have multiple reads) or you get the data and its fine. Dec 17 02:36:52 you need some smarts. ;) Dec 17 02:37:06 anyway, really really must go Dec 17 02:37:13 will think on alert-reader :-) Dec 17 02:37:24 done right (just updates) it doesn't matter. duped messages are "ok this read thing is read..." and lost messages just means you see the article again Dec 17 02:37:38 Leeds: yeah alert would be easy. Dec 17 02:37:52 Leeds: do eet! Dec 17 02:38:09 * Disconnect was pondering this a couple years ago, but decided to just migrate to greader instead :/ Dec 17 02:39:15 Disconnect: *nod* google reader is useful for some things. Dec 17 02:40:55 oh! Dec 17 02:40:59 a pink g1 case?! Dec 17 02:41:02 ho ho ho Dec 17 02:41:12 you poking around my accessories list? :) Dec 17 02:41:12 * grey- makes santa noises for his daughter's cell phone. Dec 17 02:41:17 Disconnect: yeah. Dec 17 02:41:18 nice Dec 17 02:41:28 Disconnect: you using an affiliate thing w/ amazon? Dec 17 02:41:31 yah Dec 17 02:41:35 Disconnect: kk. Dec 17 02:41:51 I've got a friend who does too, but if you found this, you deserve the $krillahz. Dec 17 02:42:06 I told him to start an android blog. Dec 17 02:42:08 did he listen? Dec 17 02:42:08 * Disconnect has yet to properly monetize any of his stuff tho (to use work terms) .. cj owes me $27 from zagg btu they pay out at $100. i think amazon is sitting at $5 or some such Dec 17 02:42:11 heh Dec 17 02:42:49 sez magenta Dec 17 02:42:52 ... Dec 17 02:42:56 and wtf is with that camera thing? Dec 17 02:43:00 ah well looks like a heart. Dec 17 02:43:04 she'll prolly think it's cute. Dec 17 02:43:08 but PINK DAMNIT. Dec 17 02:43:36 where is the pink g1 case?! Dec 17 02:43:52 dang, 16GB micro sdhc is only $50 now? Dec 17 02:43:59 zinx: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001J8H66I?tag=scubanetwo-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B001J8H66I&adid=0H1TYT5CZ2F13CMMXFCN& Dec 17 02:44:03 zinx: sez magenta Dec 17 02:44:06 zinx: I may risk it. Dec 17 02:44:10 for $6. Dec 17 02:44:22 the pic is totally pink Dec 17 02:44:28 yeah Dec 17 02:44:31 pics lie though. Dec 17 02:44:36 but *shrug* $6. Dec 17 02:45:16 what is the random square hole for? clip? Dec 17 02:45:24 yah think so Dec 17 02:46:14 oh wow. Dec 17 02:46:21 google search for pink g1 case Dec 17 02:46:25 there's several other kinds too! Dec 17 02:46:26 can i be your daughter too? i want G1s for christmas Dec 17 02:46:38 zinx: errrrrrr no. Dec 17 02:46:41 :P Dec 17 02:46:49 techically, it's not for xmas. Dec 17 02:47:05 it's for when she passes her driver's ed stuff. Dec 17 02:47:12 ah Dec 17 02:47:30 hmmm http://www.daydeal.com/product.php?productid=25755 Dec 17 02:47:31 or Dec 17 02:47:37 http://www.daydeal.com/product.php?productid=25750 Dec 17 02:47:38 or... Dec 17 02:47:53 http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=210258716&listingid=34185405&dcaid=17902 Dec 17 02:48:00 that last one is pretty neat looking. Dec 17 02:48:08 sadly, I am not a girl. Dec 17 02:48:13 so it's harder for me to say. Dec 17 02:48:26 they're all a little girly, don'tcha think? :P Dec 17 02:48:39 Captain_Dingo: yes, but which one would my daughter dig the most? Dec 17 02:48:41 I can't tell. Dec 17 02:48:45 * Captain_Dingo chooses to ignore selected parts of the conversation Dec 17 02:48:48 they all look -girlie- to me. Dec 17 02:48:52 after that, I'm lost. Dec 17 02:49:10 I end up in the "all girlie things look the same" land. Dec 17 02:49:13 i like the last one best, but the stars is decent too... the middle one's too plain Dec 17 02:49:20 I say get the tree one, it grates on my eyeballs the least Dec 17 02:49:24 yeah... Dec 17 02:49:40 ve vill zee. Dec 17 02:49:48 ++tree Dec 17 02:50:11 hate to say it but the tree is cool Dec 17 02:50:19 cooler than pink :( Dec 17 02:50:39 Disconnect: they may have amazon links to it too. Dec 17 02:50:47 hehe Dec 17 02:50:54 Disconnect: start a 'girlie-g1.com' affiliate site. ;) Dec 17 02:50:59 girle1.com Dec 17 02:51:01 dunno Dec 17 02:51:02 might convince the wif Dec 17 02:51:08 haha Dec 17 02:51:13 you can be like Dec 17 02:51:23 "like 0mg, this case is so cool! PONIES!" Dec 17 02:51:30 see Dec 17 02:51:36 i want a pony. Dec 17 02:51:38 use the sarcastic ponies on one blog/affiliate system. Dec 17 02:51:49 and the 0mgponies ponies on the girlie one. Dec 17 02:51:59 profit from the nerds and the girls. Dec 17 02:52:28 I, too, want a pony. Dec 17 02:52:37 at least a metaphorical one Dec 17 02:52:39 speaking of ponies, I didn't get one with my adp1... WTF Dec 17 02:52:40 * Disconnect is sad - most of his zagg money is from coworkers long before the g1 came out. Dec 17 02:52:50 Captain_Dingo: right, its not in the box. only in the g1 box. Dec 17 02:52:55 Captain_Dingo: lies! Dec 17 02:53:05 Disconnect: I have two boxes here >:) Dec 17 02:53:22 one of each, right now Dec 17 02:53:50 shoulda been in hte first batch of preorders. my pony is out back. its really pretty. Dec 17 02:53:52 bit me tho. :( Dec 17 02:54:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-prMb6BdNs Dec 17 02:54:22 ah neat, you've got the dev update.zip Dec 17 02:54:32 * Disconnect has everything Dec 17 02:54:35 man, 100KB/s? Dec 17 02:54:44 we need to get you some more bw. Dec 17 02:54:50 fios Dec 17 02:54:52 * grey- is spoiled @ work. Dec 17 02:54:59 <- gigE. Dec 17 02:55:01 well... Dec 17 02:55:14 technically two gigE links, but bgp through different providers. Dec 17 02:55:30 ..yah but i'm in my living room watching dirty jobs and i can get 5M down and 250K up (should be more than 100 left.. hmm..) Dec 17 02:55:42 other people leeching mebbe. Dec 17 02:55:44 *shrug* Dec 17 02:55:47 could be yah Dec 17 02:55:53 it's coming, I'm happy. (: Dec 17 02:56:05 could be worse. i got it from jf. his link is SUPER slow. Dec 17 02:56:10 hahaha Dec 17 02:56:11 almost 45 mins Dec 17 02:56:16 could be rapidshit. Dec 17 02:56:18 that is the worst. ;) Dec 17 02:56:52 beer oclock Dec 17 02:57:41 hmm. aborted ring notifications if gmail is open :/ Dec 17 02:58:02 just noticed that? Dec 17 02:58:12 usually it doesn't notify at all actually Dec 17 02:58:26 yeah its 50/50 for me Dec 17 02:58:31 I've started having phantom gmail notifications Dec 17 02:58:45 ismarc: do you have gmail opened elsewhere? Dec 17 02:58:47 tonight mine has been playing 2-5 second notifications instead of nothing. so its new to me :) Dec 17 02:58:49 nope Dec 17 02:58:55 phone just sitting on the desk Dec 17 02:59:07 makes the notification sound, wake it up, nothing in the bar Dec 17 02:59:19 open the gmail app, no emails showing Dec 17 02:59:22 weird Dec 17 02:59:27 ismarc: if you say, have it open on your desk and you read it on the site you'll often get a notification but by the time you look @ your phone it'll be marked read. ;) Dec 17 02:59:31 wait 5-10 minutes, check again, and there's an email there Dec 17 02:59:33 ismarc: that is weird. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 17 02:59:57 2008