**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 16:04:06 2009 Nov 10 16:04:27 KNY: someone did mentionthat devs were doing that in protest.... Nov 10 16:04:34 I don't remember what they're protesting though :) Nov 10 16:04:38 I dunno... just trying to throw ideas out for someone who's having trouble finding an app... He was able to lead it direct from their website. Nov 10 16:04:49 khelek: pretty much everything about vzw/2.0 Nov 10 16:05:15 <_RyanA> YoYo-Pete: thanks Nov 10 16:05:47 Thanks kny and khelek Nov 10 16:06:05 Hi All, maybe somebody has done it or maybe somebody could point me to documentation.. I want to try booting android on samsung s3c 6400 processor phone. Any idea where I could get a raw image to play with? Nov 10 16:14:15 heh.. ok. will try to figure out myself.. Nov 10 16:17:15 is there no way that you can view people in google latitude without needing igoogle. I am not an igoogle fan.... Nov 10 16:17:42 khelek: use your phone Nov 10 16:18:16 KNY: sorry...is there a way to view it on the computer without going through igoogle? Nov 10 16:18:59 *shrug* Nov 10 16:19:07 fire up an emulator with google maps running? :) Nov 10 16:19:29 lol Nov 10 16:19:32 that's an idea :) Nov 10 16:19:47 oddly, I'm a huge privacy advocate...but want friends and family to be able to track me :) Nov 10 16:19:59 stupid google making the invasion of privacy seem cool! Nov 10 16:20:28 khelek: there's a couple of third party apps, or you could just write your own Nov 10 16:20:33 khelek: you could of course just write the same exact thing and have it go through YOUR servers Nov 10 16:20:37 o/ poptix Nov 10 16:20:55 poptix, lov: very true....hmmmm Nov 10 16:21:10 thanks guys Nov 10 16:23:31 is there a way to set a passcode on my device or something other than the unlock pattern? Nov 10 16:24:25 dt3k: you can make it a custom unlock pattern :) Nov 10 16:24:27 sim lock is the only other lock Nov 10 16:24:41 i dont have a sim card :D Nov 10 16:24:43 you could install a third-party lock, no? Nov 10 16:25:12 KNY: what would it lock? it can't override the home button.. Nov 10 16:25:31 Disconnect: I believe third-party locks behave like Home replacements Nov 10 16:25:40 they do Nov 10 16:25:49 ah ok. so there is an option. Nov 10 16:26:03 can't prevent you going from app to app tho if you can convince it to do so Nov 10 16:26:03 yeah. See: "Lock 2.0" Nov 10 16:26:18 (rather, if you can get one app open you can convince that app to open others. whee, intents) Nov 10 16:26:53 my g1 got stolen and I switched to verizon and got a droid and just realized android users have no real protection, especially with all these apps, if your phone gets stolen people have access to your email, facebook, twitter/etc whatever Nov 10 16:27:06 luckily i had just done a wipe Nov 10 16:27:07 .... yep! Nov 10 16:27:18 you could of course just change your password, and then the device couldn't sync again Nov 10 16:27:33 for google services yeah Nov 10 16:27:37 and facebook Nov 10 16:27:38 and twitter Nov 10 16:27:52 facebook isn't even password, just deauthorize it Nov 10 16:27:53 it's the same problem as "what happens when I use a computer with a keylogger on it" Nov 10 16:28:14 shouldnt be :P Nov 10 16:28:17 (for the record, change it anyway. but you can disable the device by deauthorizing it in your fb settings) Nov 10 16:31:08 Hello, is it possible to have a BroadcastReceiver that receives all broadcasts? Or is it possible to use wildcarts in an intent-filter? Nov 10 16:32:25 have fun getting an update for every clock tick. Nov 10 16:32:55 is it possible? Nov 10 16:33:41 I'm pretty sure it's not, and even if it were it'd be a bad idea Nov 10 16:33:46 ctate: weigh in? Nov 10 16:34:06 It'd be a very bad id... [out of battery] Nov 10 16:34:13 you could register for all known ones, I suppose Nov 10 16:34:19 oopepe: why would you want to do that? Nov 10 16:34:49 I try to find some actions that are not documented.. Nov 10 16:35:04 if it's not documented, you can probably expect it to break in future revisions. Nov 10 16:35:11 so you're explicitly trying to do things that are likely to be incompatible between devices or versions? Nov 10 16:35:26 easier way - grab the source, start grepping Nov 10 16:35:40 yes, its just for me Nov 10 16:35:58 just for you - but to what end? Nov 10 16:36:01 what leeds said. Nov 10 16:36:07 the source is available Nov 10 16:37:06 ok, so theres no known way to have a wildcard receiver? Nov 10 16:37:54 If this channel isn't for android sdk development, does that mean it's for general OS topics? Nov 10 16:39:04 BHSPitCSP: try us... if we think you'll get better answers to your question somewhere else, we'll tell you :) Nov 10 16:39:06 BHSPitCSP: it depends on which of the googlers is around. jbq will say its for aosp only, but then others will say its general-only and aosp is -dev, etc etc. Nov 10 16:39:14 oopepe: again - what are you actually trying to achieve? Nov 10 16:39:27 Disconnect: fun Nov 10 16:39:48 if it has to do specifically with a rooted device (eg "i rooted and now i can't.." or "i hav ea weird rom and..") you'll be sent to #android-root. if its not android, you get #android-offtopic. and of course there is #android-dev for dev stuff Nov 10 16:40:09 Leeds: Im trying to switch the scenes on my htc hero. Nov 10 16:40:27 I'm running Android on an older phone, one that just has your basic numeric keypad instead of a qwerty or touchscreen. Trying to figure out what my options are for text entry. Nov 10 16:40:37 ah! so you can't grep the source because it's proprietary... try asking HTC :P or watch the logs as it happens... Nov 10 16:41:04 anyway, bedtime... g'night all Nov 10 16:41:04 This channel is officially for AOSP discussions, but since there are very few of those (for reasons that quickly become obvious to anyone who's trying to contribute) we've let all sorts of user discussions go on in here. Nov 10 16:41:33 jbq: shouldn't you be off catching up on your sleep? Nov 10 16:41:50 Simply mapping the keys to KEY_KP1..9 in Cupcake doesn't make Android want to respond like I'd want it to, so I'm guessing there's no OS support for that style of input at all? Nov 10 16:41:54 Caffeine, baby, caffeine! Nov 10 16:41:55 The logs didnt give me any useful info :( .. than i guess ill have to send htc a very friendly email.. Nov 10 16:42:39 heh... AOSP, as sponsored by... lots and lots of coffee Nov 10 16:42:55 Actually, Coca Cola. Nov 10 16:43:45 Am I on too much of a tangent for this channel? :P Nov 10 16:44:22 Nah, that's cool, but porting issues tend to get a much better response on the android-porting group. Nov 10 16:44:23 <_jz> Do you know of an app that would use the G1 LED for instance to show network activity (red for upload / green for download would be bomb!) and/or connection to operator's network (flashing red when offline), etc.. ? Nov 10 16:44:53 I'm having the hardest time Googling for info about this feature, mainly because I don't think there's a standardized name for that kind of text entry Nov 10 16:44:58 _jz: shouldn't be too hard to write Nov 10 16:45:15 You're looking for 12-key triple-tap text input? Nov 10 16:45:33 jbq: that sounds like a good way to describe it Nov 10 16:46:04 <_jz> KNY: then I just gave you a good idea! ;) Nov 10 16:46:30 I don't think Android was ever tested on such a phone (or maybe never even had support for it). The only non-touchscreen Android device I've ever seen had full qwerty... and that was in 2007. Nov 10 16:46:39 <_jz> KNY: orange could be used to flash when you're offline the operator's net... blue to show there i an openwifi present, etc... ? Nov 10 16:46:50 jbq: maybe I'm the first ;P Nov 10 16:47:50 jbq: I have it running on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfTP2DKirUQ Nov 10 16:48:07 Sweet :) Nov 10 16:48:34 Yeah, I think that you'll need to actually write the code for 12-key input. Nov 10 16:48:45 Boo. Nov 10 16:49:30 Would that have to be in one of the Java-wielding layers? I suck at Java. Nov 10 16:50:42 hmm http://developer.android.com/reference/android/text/method/MultiTapKeyListener.html Nov 10 16:52:04 Yeah, that'd definitely be on the Java side, probably in the framework (or in an input method - I'm not sure how much is possible on that front) Nov 10 16:52:54 <_jz> http://www.androlib.com/android.application.as-adamsmith-etherealdialpad-zADE.aspx << anyone knows how to contact that developper ? Nov 10 16:53:49 _jz: find it on market and hit the "email" link Nov 10 16:53:55 <_jz> I don't use market Nov 10 16:54:11 <_jz> I don't want to disclose data to google, it's just a phone :) Nov 10 16:54:19 _jz: browse it on Cyrket Nov 10 16:54:28 <_jz> ah? I don't know this one Nov 10 16:54:35 it's a web frontend to Market Nov 10 16:54:40 googleit. Nov 10 16:54:43 cyrket is down Nov 10 16:54:48 <_jz> yay Nov 10 16:54:49 KNY: really? Nuts. Nov 10 16:54:53 has been for like a month Nov 10 16:54:57 <_jz> yes it's down :/ Nov 10 16:55:09 <_jz> cease&desist from that friendly, philantropic Google corp ? ;) Nov 10 16:55:14 _jz: no Nov 10 16:56:04 right, because a company protecting copyright is evil Nov 10 16:56:07 * Qwell rolls his eyes Nov 10 16:56:18 *hides inside all the time for fear of corporations using his information to sell him things he wants and do a better job* Nov 10 16:56:20 It wasn't a piracy site Nov 10 16:56:47 _jz: on market, website is adamsmith.as Nov 10 16:56:48 BHSPitCSP: Did they provide copyrighted binaries? Nov 10 16:56:51 email is rndmcnlly@gmail.com Nov 10 16:56:52 It just provided access to the index/metadata/etc you'd find in the Market app, in a browsable way Nov 10 16:57:00 Qwell: no Nov 10 16:57:02 <_jz> Qwell: how evil Copyright has became is not the main debate here... Nov 10 16:57:11 <_jz> lov: luvz! Nov 10 16:57:31 what? Nov 10 16:57:48 there's even a phone number, but putting your # on the market is like asking for trouble Nov 10 16:58:31 <_jz> lov: thank you for that info Nov 10 16:58:47 Qwell: it wasn't the copyright so much as the complete fscking disaster that aosp was up to that point. and their willingness to say "oh no its open and usable" while not allowing patches to fix it (calendar and provisioning fixes were both kicked because 'it works fine for google devices').. the c&d just forced them to work on aosp (and dedicate someone to it) in order to be able to say "you should be using this" without getting laughed at Nov 10 16:59:22 Actually, I had been officially 100% on AOSP since Jul 1. Nov 10 16:59:40 An, uh, we had never received patch proposals for either of those issues. Nov 10 16:59:56 lulz Nov 10 17:00:46 jbq: right up until AOSP died, huh? :D Nov 10 17:00:46 jbq: i know there was a long discussion about provisioning because i was involved. i'll find a link for you. the latest idea of 'layered' provisioning providers is a better answer, but the earlier fixes worked too and were kicked because aosp couldn't have anything that might possibly impact the closed source tree in any way. Nov 10 17:00:57 (not to say that the state of AOSP was good before that. It was bad, and we knew about it since the day we released it). It's still not great, without redistributable drivers. Nov 10 17:00:58 or i should say, right up until AOSP was murdered Nov 10 17:01:43 the closed driver thing can be worked around - we've done it before where we just use older drivers that we have (that were distributed to us) Nov 10 17:01:50 Yes, we can't ignore the fact that the #1 goal of AOSP is to allow OEMs to build phones with it. If we make it less suitable for OEMs, we're moving in the wrong direction. Nov 10 17:02:10 you can't really call it an open source project when the source isn't open, though :) Nov 10 17:02:24 * litui summons the inquisition. Nov 10 17:02:30 jbq: it wasn't about oems, it was about "it works for us so its not changing. try again." in so many words. (still looking for that thread btw) Nov 10 17:02:49 The source for 2.0 isn't available yet, indeed. Nov 10 17:02:51 well thats sorta oems but not "oh well if we make it harder, they'll leave".. the google-side requirement was "add a flag" Nov 10 17:03:31 tbqh i think google has enough clout at this point w/ Android to start making demands from the carriers/headset makers :/ Nov 10 17:03:43 at least in the sense of "no, we won't do that retarded thing you're asking us to do." Nov 10 17:04:06 Disconnect: I know, I'm actually the one who spent several days looking for solutions that the framework team (hackbod and joeo) would accept. Nov 10 17:04:18 and i think it could very well lose that if things go the way they're going :/ Nov 10 17:04:32 (which is to say, carriers dictate terms that piss off users greatly, users stop buying stuff) Nov 10 17:04:56 or at the very least developers, which users will follow :/ Nov 10 17:05:58 jbq: btw, submitted a year and a week ago: https://review.source.android.com/#change,1856 Nov 10 17:06:41 Android's already on par with the iPhone in terms of openness - sure, you can install apps you want from outside the market, but you can't root it. iPhones are easy to jailbreak :P Nov 10 17:07:30 Yup, like Romain explained, this change interfered with OEM configurations that might have their own setup system. Nov 10 17:08:28 I kinda doubt the majority of iPhone users care about platform openness or jailbreaking. Nov 10 17:08:37 litui: me too Nov 10 17:08:56 litui: i'm just saying.. for an OS that's supposed to be open, Android is going in the wrong direction.. Nov 10 17:09:14 and the real goal may be to pander to OEMs, but that's certainly not the stated goal Nov 10 17:09:18 ..instead of fixing it in aosp and letting derivatives make their changes as needed. we had this discussion at the time, too. i still maintain that its easier for an oem to take WORKING CODE and change it than to leave a broken mess in place because -google- uses it.. Nov 10 17:10:12 Disconnect: it's fundamentally incompatible with the way derivatives need to work. If we forced each OEM to make their own changes to work around this, there'd be no way for AOSP to hold the exact source code used to build devices. Nov 10 17:10:51 eh, it doesn't on any official existing device anyway, except perhaps the zoom Nov 10 17:11:03 Disconnect: given that you were one of the people complaining the most about not having the exact 1.0 source code, I'd assume that you're intelligent enough to realize the contradiction in your arguments. Nov 10 17:12:09 fwiw Nov 10 17:12:10 each oem right now has to hack together something to activate (esp non-google devices, which ship provisioned) and something to make calendar work. the other side of the coin is "disable engineering builds so that the sdksetup doesn't provision the device prematurely if you have your own provisioning app"... Nov 10 17:12:18 regarding the actual problem you two are discussing Nov 10 17:12:32 it would be nice to have an "official" method of overriding packages in the build system Nov 10 17:12:50 Disconnect: and your point is, we should make it harder for them to create devices? Nov 10 17:12:59 i currently use the following unofficial one (which will break): Nov 10 17:13:03 LOCAL_OVERRIDES_PACKAGES := su Nov 10 17:13:03 PACKAGES.$(LOCAL_MODULE).OVERRIDES := su Nov 10 17:13:14 and uh, maybe the top one was the thing that was added Nov 10 17:13:18 Does resetting G1 result in a locked phone? Nov 10 17:13:30 i dunno. i had to use the bottom one at one point, and the stupid thing has to build for cupcake and donut :P Nov 10 17:13:46 heoa: SIM locked? no Nov 10 17:13:55 heoa: but you will have to provision it if you don't have a custom firmware Nov 10 17:14:09 heoa: resetting the phone erases user data / settings, nothing more Nov 10 17:14:15 jbq: harder? "here's code thats broken. to maek a device, you must fix a bunch of crap that depends on undocumented secret external libs" vs "here's code that works. if you require a provisioning app to run, you must unset engineering build. if you have secret undocumented calendar goo, you add it over there." Nov 10 17:14:15 user data includes apps Nov 10 17:14:26 (user-installed, not system apps that came with the phone) Nov 10 17:16:15 Yes, harder. including a setup app *and* disabling the default one is more work than just including a setup app. Nov 10 17:16:51 zinx: "have to provision -- custom firmware". I bought it from eBay as a new "unlocked G1". Nov 10 17:16:58 err ? Nov 10 17:17:12 heoa: you only need a data connection to provision it Nov 10 17:17:20 heoa: wiping does not lock it Nov 10 17:17:31 zinx: you mean to create a new google account? Nov 10 17:17:38 you have to type in some code to lock it, i'm sure, and i doubt you can even /buy/ a lock code :P Nov 10 17:17:46 heoa: or use an existing one, yes Nov 10 17:18:42 jbq: i call shinanigoats. there's no default setup app for devices, and you are making the assumption that every oem who ships any android device will have a setup app because all the ones who did were forced to do so (and because google does) Nov 10 17:18:42 zinx: is that small button a builtin-reset button on the cover if something goes wrong?! Nov 10 17:18:58 heoa: what small button? Nov 10 17:19:01 what button, heoa ? Nov 10 17:19:09 near the usb-charging thing Nov 10 17:19:16 heoa: that's the mmic Nov 10 17:19:17 heoa: the mic? Nov 10 17:19:17 uh, that's the mic Nov 10 17:19:20 heoa: don't poke it :P Nov 10 17:19:55 The reset procedure requires you to whistle into it at a specific frequency Nov 10 17:20:04 heoa: you can wipe data by going in to the recovery and pressing alt+w (you can go to recovery by holding home while powering on the phone, and keeping home held until you get to the recovery screen - which is typically a triangle / exclamation point) Nov 10 17:20:07 qwell: lol Nov 10 17:20:43 Disconnect: if you feel like contributing a mechanism to have a default app, that'd be great. Right now the system works well enough as far as I'm concerned. Nov 10 17:21:00 quell: naw it's DTMF. You have to Tuvan throatsing into it. Nov 10 17:21:44 zinx: is it possible to backup the current settings? Nov 10 17:22:22 heoa: not with stock firmware, no Nov 10 17:23:45 zinx: Thank you, have to reset. Luckily things are over SSH on Screen so not much lost Nov 10 17:24:15 jbq: the original point: until the C&D, google was willing to let aosp be useless without a bunch of hacking -such as- provisioning and calendars. Nov 10 17:25:54 Disconnect: indeed, changing conditions made me change my priorities. Nov 10 17:26:14 Disconnect: the flip side is that code reviews and handling of the bug database have fallen behind by many weeks. Nov 10 17:26:37 zinx: one small thing, is it possible to change the Gmail account without losing personal data? Nov 10 17:27:01 heoa: i don't know :/ Nov 10 17:27:04 jbq: indeed. Nov 10 17:27:22 heoa: some of the "personal data" is synced with your gmail account - so it will use the info from the new account Nov 10 17:28:12 jbq: course, all that stuff you pulled out of the project page would have helped spread the load and prevent that from happening, but.. Nov 10 17:28:31 Disconnect: but I'm not the one making those decisions. Nov 10 17:28:41 That page was horrifyingly wrong. Nov 10 17:29:02 (so is the top of the roadmap page, but I'm not going to go there) Nov 10 17:29:06 that page was exactly what it needed to be when google announced android as an open project.. Nov 10 17:29:33 Disconnect: indeed. But it was impossible to implement in reality. Nov 10 17:30:02 google's unwillingness is hardly a measure of impossibility. Nov 10 17:30:09 That was indeed what everybody involved wanted to do. But the people with the decision power weren't involved enough, or didn't understand the consequences of what they were agreeing it. Nov 10 17:30:32 Disconnect: impossible to implement while getting your nose brown on the OEMs :P Nov 10 17:31:53 zinx: meh. maemo does community elections, semipublic road maps, open development and still manages to keep trade secrets and surprise features. (and surprise devices, since the "it might be a phone" rumour started just after the 770 and maemo was opened and didn't -really- pick up until the n900 dev units were already being waved around..) Nov 10 17:32:46 maemo's only on Nokia right? Nov 10 17:32:46 How many OEMs are now shipping Maemo devices? Nov 10 17:33:05 jbq: how many shipped android devices when it was finally kinda opensourced? Nov 10 17:33:35 Disconnect: A single one, by definition. Nov 10 17:34:05 But, still, with the software done by one company and the device by another. Nov 10 17:34:24 jbq: you wanted to do apples-to-apples in the mobile phone arena.. so right now there is one device that is just starting to ship. source and sdk has been publicly available (without any of that "you're special, here's the real sdk" crap) for a while. Nov 10 17:35:08 * Disconnect isn't actually that huge a fan of maemo - for one thing, it requires a lot more storage and ram as a baseline than android. but its a working actually-public open source community project with commercial backing and control. just like aosp started out claiming to b e. Nov 10 17:35:23 (and you reject any examples that aren't mobile phones so i stopped offering them) Nov 10 17:35:33 If you want to go apples-to-apples, you need to go back a year in time for AOSP. Specifically, before January 20. Nov 10 17:36:30 ok. broken code, no community involvement, no roadmap, no explanation or feedback to the community about open vs closed features and apps, no legal way to build for the "platform development" device that google was selling.... Nov 10 17:36:36 hi all Nov 10 17:36:46 i think going back before jan 20 is bad for android in this comparison, but.. Nov 10 17:36:59 Uh, there was a roadmap (it's still there, unchanged), and a list of open-source projects (which is also still there). Nov 10 17:37:24 The scripts to build for ADP1 were out before ADP1 was even announced. Nov 10 17:40:16 <_RyanA> Is there a way to control the music player from the buttons on the Droid? Nov 10 17:41:23 jbq: except they were only tested with google bits. i remember the conversations about which files needed to be pulled off the phone, etc.. Nov 10 17:41:53 and again, provisioning. "scripts to build" doesn't count if it doesn't have basic phone features at the end. Nov 10 17:42:38 Disconnect: nope, they hadn't been tested with Google features. Though admittedly they had only been tested with tiny-android, because that's all that the people who did the scripts cared about. Nov 10 17:43:33 jbq: they didn't work without proprietary bins that weren't available in the repo. it took quite a while before the community-generated extract-bins script got in upstream. Nov 10 17:44:02 It is what it is. Nov 10 17:44:10 so sure, it probably booted but phone didn't work, no audio, no gl, no sensors, etc.. Nov 10 17:44:40 I'd like to see more available hardware to play with. Nov 10 17:44:54 Is there a wifi triangualtion app for android? Hopefully one that incorporates gps and overalys the data on google maps Nov 10 17:44:58 Not Google fault of course. Just par for the course. Nov 10 17:44:58 Like I said, tiny-android. Nov 10 17:45:05 *triangulation Nov 10 17:45:48 Man I just can't type on this keyboard Nov 10 17:46:52 Disconnect: They were committing phone bits to the Maemo public repository before they announced it was going to be a phone? Nov 10 17:47:01 jbq: by that measure, the iphone-linux guys were almost as far along as the official android development [phone/platform] was. (hmm. i think they had touchscreen working back then.) but whatever. Nov 10 17:47:53 * ari-free going to look at Maemo but doesn't seem like it's made for a phone Nov 10 17:48:49 ari-free: In my experience, it's more of a full-fledged portable OS. It'd do great on netbooks, actually. It wasn't too bad on the old Nokia tablets, either. Nov 10 17:49:15 kroot: its modular and - like android (although backwards) - intended for both phone and 'tablet' style devices. so while i doubt specific phone support was in, i wouldn't be too surprised to see that hooks were in place. if you're that curious i'll go look after i throw my lunch in the microwave. Nov 10 17:49:21 i do want a phone that's a PC Nov 10 17:49:26 The choice of Java for a platform like this was much better than Maemo's choice. Nov 10 17:49:46 damnit, now I can't even search apps on cyrket? Is this another google C&D? Nov 10 17:49:59 (yes, I've been out of the loop lately) Nov 10 17:50:05 no Nov 10 17:50:07 cyrket is just down Nov 10 17:50:09 ari-free: The the n900 might just be up your alley. Nov 10 17:50:09 wasabi: wait till we get equivalent devices. (or see my earlier statement - i'm not a fan of maemo in particular, btu its a wonderful counter-example to the google claims that you can't be open and make consumer devices) Nov 10 17:50:27 It's a pretty crappy consumer device, imo. :) Nov 10 17:50:31 But I agree. Nov 10 17:50:43 I've got a Droid running 2.0 and there's this folder called "Bluetooth Received" Nov 10 17:50:55 is there any official statement about -why- the 2.0 source is being held back? Nov 10 17:50:58 Saurik commented on twitter that he's trying to work something out with Google to keep cyrket up Nov 10 17:50:59 AbortRetryFail: yes, 2.0 supports bluetooth file transfers Nov 10 17:51:02 my concern is that maemo will now take away android developers Nov 10 17:51:08 Disconnect: no official statement at this point. Nov 10 17:51:08 anybody know what that is and how it works? I've tried sending contacts to it from my old phone to no avail Nov 10 17:51:10 Disconnect: not any official one, no Nov 10 17:51:18 Maemo is highly lacking in the security department, as well. Nov 10 17:51:43 Hi I am working on an application and wanted your input, this is an early version of it which was published in MIT technology review http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=16745&ch=infotech&a=f Nov 10 17:51:46 wtf they still haven't released the sources yet? Nov 10 17:51:55 wasabi: android assumes the provider is in charge of the device. maemo assumes the user is. Nov 10 17:52:05 Hmm. I disagree. Nov 10 17:52:06 Disconnect: yeah :( Nov 10 17:52:17 wasabi: so a maemo device is no more or less secure than a desktop/netbook - it depends on what you install and how you manage it. Nov 10 17:52:20 Maemo has no interapp isolation. Which makes it impossible to have anything like the market effectively work. Nov 10 17:52:30 its basically an interphase to your phone using language, and I wanted other ideas of what you guys would like your phone to do Nov 10 17:52:31 http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=16745&ch=infotech&a=f Nov 10 17:52:33 Yeah. Basically. Nov 10 17:52:34 your network provider has control over what stuff you can see in the market right? Nov 10 17:52:44 AbortRetryFail: yes. Nov 10 17:52:50 totic: I would like my phone to give me a boner, on demand. Nov 10 17:52:56 BS if you ask me :) Nov 10 17:52:57 AbortRetryFail: for example, afaik the 'wifi tetehr' app is still out there but tmob-usa dropped it Nov 10 17:52:59 is this a feasible line of inquiry? Nov 10 17:53:13 That's such a great feature though. Nov 10 17:53:19 lov: well if you stick it up your ass, and put it on vibrate why not Nov 10 17:53:21 fucking carriers are idiots. Nov 10 17:53:22 I think Android is fine. It is a fine consumer device. Even the lock down and provider restrictions are fine with me. What I dislike is that the project does not operate like normal community projects. Nov 10 17:53:27 totic: excellen. Nov 10 17:53:43 seriously though your link is a good idea but usually ends up being something that doesn't end well in practice Nov 10 17:53:44 wasabi: agreed, even with the outright broken shit like voice dial not working on bluetooth headsets. Nov 10 17:53:46 lov: look at the article Nov 10 17:53:53 I dont wnat to have to dig my phone out of my pocket just to place a call Nov 10 17:53:56 lov: why? Nov 10 17:53:59 wasabi: thats because its not a community project Nov 10 17:54:02 Basically. Nov 10 17:54:04 it's a driving hazard. Nov 10 17:54:07 ppl typ lik this Nov 10 17:54:16 AbortRetryFail: if you can improve srec to recognize well from 8kHz data, we'd love a fix. Nov 10 17:54:19 also, semantics Nov 10 17:54:33 parse "the flesh is willing but the spirit is weak" Nov 10 17:54:36 jbq: It doesn't even try. Nov 10 17:54:38 (even by the very low standards of most "open source" commercial projects) Nov 10 17:54:39 so it's not like mozilla? Nov 10 17:55:00 AbortRetryFail: indeed. Testing showed it didn't work well enough. It's a one-line change in the source code IIRC - it's implemented, just disabled. Nov 10 17:55:00 lov: you can talk to it with speech recognition and also we can use machine translation to go from "lol to laughing" Nov 10 17:55:07 Missing or broken functionality is a different argument than community involvement. Nov 10 17:55:35 I would love commits to go to a public git. Like every other project. Nov 10 17:55:39 I suppose. It's just one of those things that we've been promised for 30 years is just 5 years away. Nov 10 17:56:12 wasabi: so would we, but legal issues get in the way. Nov 10 17:56:23 Does anyone know if Android VPN support will include non-L2TP IPSec? Nov 10 17:56:27 Is anyone looking at that? Nov 10 17:56:57 wasabi: supposedly 1.6 would be the first one where most google devs are working in the public repo. it started to swing that way, then fell apart and seems to be worse than it started. Nov 10 17:57:01 lov: yes but why should your phone know how to parse that Nov 10 17:57:14 (well.. not seems to be. 2.0 being closed means it is worse.) Nov 10 17:57:16 jbq, frank open discussions about the issues would be nice, too. I'd never ask for you to publish closed drivers and stuff. Obviously. But bug fixes for apps? That's inconceivable. Nov 10 17:57:24 lov:its like asking your phone if he loves you, its funny but doesnt really matter.. Nov 10 17:57:43 it's really just a sample Nov 10 17:57:47 Disconnect: work in the open for 1.6 was the pre-Jan-20 plan, yes. Nov 10 17:58:07 If I ask my phone "Help me with my spirits" do I want spiritual counseling or do I want alcohol (or do I want both?) Nov 10 17:58:11 wasabi: agreed, even with the outright broken shit like voice dial not working on bluetooth headsets. <-?? Works perfectly for me Nov 10 17:58:19 lov: we have been working for 25 years on this at MIT, the point is what other "Commands should your phone know with language?" Nov 10 17:58:26 wasabi: unfortunately fixing bugs in one codeline while implementing features in another has quite some process overhead. Nov 10 17:58:29 fair enough Nov 10 17:58:32 totic: Cool idea. Great idea for handsfree. Would have to see the execution to formulate more of an opinion (natural language processing is a side interest of mine... did 2 years of linguistics before returning to IT) Nov 10 17:58:41 lov: I see this isnt going anywhere, why should your phone do that Nov 10 17:58:51 obviously, "dial aunt louise in st. louis" Nov 10 17:59:09 yes, its does that already Nov 10 17:59:15 but I am looking for out of the box ideas Nov 10 17:59:17 jbq, too nebulous. "implementing features" leaves me doing little but wondering what sort of features you could have that would be propriatary. =/ Nov 10 17:59:39 wasabi: you'd be surprised :( Nov 10 17:59:45 "tell me a good recipe for beef stroganof" Nov 10 17:59:46 Probably would. Nov 10 18:00:27 "I've fallen, and I can't get up" Nov 10 18:00:30 I guess the question is not only what can you parse, but what are you capable of doing? Does this involve sensible web searches, or is it restricted to local content?" Nov 10 18:00:33 really should diall 911 Nov 10 18:00:33 wasabi: I've had to go through quite some management hoops to do a code drop of Donut in May because there was some evidence of gestures in there and that was off-limits at the time. Nov 10 18:00:45 totic: what's always stood in the way for me was the speed of input being faster in many cases, and that much of the speech/language processing software I've been put in front of is so prone to error that it becomes more valuable time-wise to enter things manually. Nov 10 18:00:48 or should bring up a lifealert commercial :> Nov 10 18:00:57 indeed :D Nov 10 18:01:08 So patent fears over specific features? Nov 10 18:01:14 Or unannounced features? Nov 10 18:01:28 wasabi: both. Nov 10 18:01:37 Trying to not undercut the marketing hype by not publishing features. I guess. Nov 10 18:01:45 That's sort of a casualty of open development, though. Nov 10 18:01:48 And I think the rest of us got over it. :0 Nov 10 18:01:57 OEMs and carriers didn't. Nov 10 18:02:21 Remember, those are the same people who still can't implement a TCP stack or an HTTP proxy. Nov 10 18:02:26 Heh. Nov 10 18:02:33 hello all Nov 10 18:02:50 Well I hope that is something somebody with smarts is trying to learn carriers about. Nov 10 18:03:11 You published gesture code, the marketing message will not be ruined. The people you are marketing to aren't reading android commits. :0 Nov 10 18:03:23 You're not going to teach carriers much when the executives are religious zealots Nov 10 18:03:33 It's a lot of small steps. One at a time. Nov 10 18:03:37 Yup. Nov 10 18:03:51 remember that carriers want you to pay through the nose for every feature you take for granted. Nov 10 18:03:55 text to speech? That's $5/mo Nov 10 18:03:59 The patent situation is much more worrisome IMO if you don't want to restrict yourself to the US. Nov 10 18:04:02 gps? That's $10/mo to use the proprietary GPS app Nov 10 18:04:10 Speech to text? Ooooh, that's gonna run ya Nov 10 18:04:16 Exchange support? well, that's $15/mo. Nov 10 18:04:17 Tethering fees =p Nov 10 18:04:27 nah, they would never charge $15/mo for exchange. Nov 10 18:04:32 Plus $0.0057 per byte Nov 10 18:04:34 Well, I think a lot of that can be accomplished by proper technical design. And has been. Maps is an app, for instance. Nov 10 18:04:36 Tethering fees make sense though. You'll use a *lot* more bandwidth with your lappy than your phone. Nov 10 18:04:37 And can simply be removed. Nov 10 18:04:42 litui: they would never charge $30/mo for 5Gb of tethering Nov 10 18:04:51 That's a great application platform. Nov 10 18:05:22 languish: $0.0057 per byte(*) * $0.57 per byte) Nov 10 18:05:22 perlmonkey2: not necessarily, especially given a monthly cap anyway. Nov 10 18:06:09 zinx, people would eat more data if they charge tiny incrimental amounts that they can't be assed to add up Nov 10 18:06:51 languish: oh, that was just a whole dollars = cents vzw stab ;) Nov 10 18:06:58 cuz u no maphs id hurd Nov 10 18:07:25 zinx: yeah, love that one... poor guy. Nov 10 18:07:26 heh Nov 10 18:08:41 I had a csr tell me to change dollars to cents you have to move the decimal point two places to the left. Technically correct, as I lol's Nov 10 18:08:45 s/d Nov 10 18:09:54 but then, she did incidentally deduct an unexpected $34 from that months bill. Nov 10 18:10:37 languish: or 34 cents .. Nov 10 18:10:39 check carefully :) Nov 10 18:10:53 oh, I did, she was trying to do addition :) Nov 10 18:11:03 I fear anyone she tries to do division for... Nov 10 18:11:08 *fear for Nov 10 18:11:12 "12 and 12? yeah, that's $94 to deduct.." Nov 10 18:11:51 "When you divide one object you have two object, so division means more!" Nov 10 18:12:21 calc.exe Nov 10 18:12:22 *sigh* Nov 10 18:12:32 what's this world coming to Nov 10 18:13:01 She WAS using a calculator Nov 10 18:13:02 I should play with droid/goog's voice search to see how well it works as a calc Nov 10 18:13:13 I'm even worse. I just confuse people by telling them that division is simply the inverse of multiplication Nov 10 18:13:34 denon, depends on your accent Nov 10 18:13:36 :D Nov 10 18:13:39 languish: well, it's confusing .. on a calculator it's the line with the two dots, on a computer it's a / ... Nov 10 18:13:48 surely you don't expect someone to know all that at minimum wage Nov 10 18:13:59 One of our engineers from bangladesh, gets it to work perfectly. Nov 10 18:14:01 Go figure Nov 10 18:14:32 ut oh Nov 10 18:18:13 okay, Google completely rawks! I said "twelve times twelve" to my phone and it gave me 144. Nov 10 18:19:00 android based cash registered coming soon to a store near you... Nov 10 18:20:10 Is it true that VPN over IPSEC with XAUTH is not supported by Android 1.6 ? Nov 10 18:21:01 perlmonkey2: in the search? or elsewhere? Nov 10 18:21:12 perlmonkey2: I got that beat. I just asked my Droid "what is the answer to life, the universe and everything?". it's nice to see how accurate the voice to text is. Nov 10 18:21:20 denon: search, but you could easily write something to use web results as a voice calc. Nov 10 18:21:41 perlmonkey2: course, at that point you might as well bypass the Internet and do it locally Nov 10 18:21:47 I bet there's a thousand apps that do it already Nov 10 18:21:49 or converter, currency..etc Nov 10 18:22:02 well, converter locally .. currency, yeah, might as well pipe that out Nov 10 18:22:05 then have it speak back the answer Nov 10 18:22:14 denon: don't know. Seems like I'd be duplicating Google's work, and I have to make the network call for the Speech to Text anyways. Nov 10 18:22:29 languish: yeah, cept goog's default text to speech voice is ridiculously stupid compared to modern cepstral/att stuff Nov 10 18:22:45 baffles me why they used it Nov 10 18:22:47 it'll get better over time Nov 10 18:22:55 denon: probably has to do with being very tiny Nov 10 18:23:04 anno^da: I wish _anything_ supported VPN+IPSEC+XAUTH. =p Nov 10 18:23:04 and not patented lulz Nov 10 18:23:05 it's really just svox pico Nov 10 18:23:13 languish: it has -- the rest of the industry has totally improved the past 10 years ... Nov 10 18:23:17 google's default US voice is very badly recorded Nov 10 18:23:17 the amiga phone hehe Nov 10 18:23:18 anno^da: Pretty rare in a phone, I've found. Nov 10 18:23:26 anno^da: Yep Nov 10 18:23:29 the british voice is a billion times better, but british Nov 10 18:23:34 litui: Well as always the iphone does it :/ Nov 10 18:23:36 cepstral runs on a pretty low footprint Nov 10 18:23:39 anno^da: See: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=vpn/java/android/net/vpn;h=1198ed02e4e0bfaef0352bfcccc47a21b3207dc8;hb=HEAD Nov 10 18:23:44 so i'm sure they could fix a lot of it by just getting a better quality voice :/ Nov 10 18:23:48 anno^da: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/apps/Settings.git;a=tree;f=src/com/android/settings/vpn;h=ec725d4fe3af60d16d03a2f9c2fad785c87fdb4a;hb=HEAD Nov 10 18:23:49 I could deal with a british voice, if it were female Nov 10 18:23:49 long link is long o.o Nov 10 18:23:52 So... just spoke to Verizon about the 5GB cap. Nov 10 18:23:54 anno^da: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/ipsec-tools.git;a=tree Nov 10 18:24:02 Majost: oh, what did they say? Nov 10 18:24:03 I know that it is possible with root but well the students here do not have rooted G1s. Nov 10 18:24:06 when this new generation of mobile procs become common, I bet we seem much more onboard cpu intensive tasks. Nov 10 18:24:08 Majost: only 5GB on tether, not on handsets Nov 10 18:24:09 turns out, there isn't one Nov 10 18:24:17 this is the oldest myth in the world Nov 10 18:24:17 yup Nov 10 18:24:27 I wish the iphone lamers would quit perpetuating it Nov 10 18:24:32 and for handsets which don't have the added data package Nov 10 18:24:39 =) Nov 10 18:24:49 * Majost starts streaming audio Nov 10 18:24:50 heh Nov 10 18:25:04 Majost: will get more fun when there's flash and hulu :) Nov 10 18:25:06 xkahn: Thank you but in 1.6 it is not possible. True? Other IPSEC standards are included but not over XAUTH with a group password. Nov 10 18:25:11 or if someone ports VLC Nov 10 18:25:17 5g is a myth but most providers have (and somtimes use) a 'reasonable use' limit Nov 10 18:25:20 no divx/xvid support is saddening Nov 10 18:25:22 anno^da: It is not possible without a rooted phone Nov 10 18:25:24 which has been known to fire around 5g :) Nov 10 18:25:43 anno^da: If someone contributes code, maybe it'll be in future updates Nov 10 18:25:47 Disconnect: yeah .. but Ive talked to people on vzw who have done way over 5GB on their handsets without issue Nov 10 18:25:50 The poor thing is that the iPhone does support that IPSEC way of VPN. :( Nov 10 18:26:05 I have a 250mb limit then I pay around 1$ per 10MB Nov 10 18:26:09 ouch Nov 10 18:26:12 anno^da: It's a major reason why people root their Android phones, yes. Nov 10 18:26:13 wow thats harsh Nov 10 18:26:23 xkahn: Well it seems to be only an missing UI? Nov 10 18:26:26 The-Compiler: mailing text pages of binary would be cheaper :) Nov 10 18:26:29 biggest you can get in Switzerland is 2GB per month I think Nov 10 18:26:34 for like 20$ or so Nov 10 18:26:40 anno^da: I haven't yet looked closely enough, but yeah. I think that's right. Nov 10 18:26:41 ah, switzerland Nov 10 18:27:01 i wonder if the data plan on the droid for example is subject to the 5 gig limit too Nov 10 18:27:07 well I'm doing pretty well with the 250mb... I mainly use twitter, mail and irc so that's pretty okay. Nov 10 18:27:08 jeev: it isnt Nov 10 18:27:11 xkahn: Ok will will have to look into that. Big VPN support would be great. Nov 10 18:27:14 oh cool Nov 10 18:27:16 jeev: only if you tether the droid to your laptop Nov 10 18:27:20 i see Nov 10 18:27:30 anno^da, i cnonected to pptp with my droid and irc'd off it Nov 10 18:27:31 very cool Nov 10 18:27:32 :> Nov 10 18:27:49 jeev: pptp isn't a very good vpn protocol. :) Nov 10 18:27:55 And I hate having to see that the iPhone once more does something better than Android. (or well not better but just does it :) ) Nov 10 18:28:00 jeev: Lots of organizations refuse to use it Nov 10 18:28:01 wjhat do you want me to do damnit Nov 10 18:28:03 set up ipsec Nov 10 18:28:24 jeev: IPSec is only supported with a L2TP tunnel Nov 10 18:28:26 hi, is there a usb tethering for g1/dream that is not "proxy" based ? Nov 10 18:28:29 jeev: which also isn't that good. :) Nov 10 18:28:32 the iphone is more mature than android Nov 10 18:28:36 *shrug* Nov 10 18:28:41 :P :) Nov 10 18:28:41 xkahn, so nothing is good that the droid can do in vpn ? Nov 10 18:29:13 android is more thrilling than the iphone because it's not fully set in its ways yet Nov 10 18:29:24 jeev: That's my current understanding. I think it can be fixed though. :) Nov 10 18:29:30 bah Nov 10 18:29:34 so for now, pptp is ok Nov 10 18:29:34 ;) Nov 10 18:30:26 jeev: It's better than nothing for sure. Unless you don't have a pptp vpn. :) Nov 10 18:31:00 languish: Well that is true but when I compare some things like the speed of the browser (the whole smootheness of the interface rendering) or the VPN support it makes me cry :/ Nov 10 18:31:17 Besides which didn't Cisco back iphone on the VPN support? Nov 10 18:31:48 Well, looking at the git repo, it looks like Android may have full IPSec support built in Nov 10 18:31:50 anno^da, the whole industry is a disappointment Nov 10 18:31:52 you just can't access it Nov 10 18:32:16 xkahn: It does have it fully integrated I can connect from the console. Nov 10 18:32:39 that's kinda balls. Nov 10 18:32:42 But that doesn't help some non technical guys that just want to enter the universities network over VPN. Nov 10 18:32:58 ah Nov 10 18:32:59 WTF Nov 10 18:33:03 gmail just signed me out Nov 10 18:33:05 is the ipsec commandline stuff usable as non-root? Nov 10 18:33:18 Nope it is only usable as root. Nov 10 18:33:25 anno^da: unfortunate. Nov 10 18:33:43 litui: Yeah it is. Nov 10 18:33:56 So this repo needs patches: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=vpn/java/android/net/vpn;h=1198ed02e4e0bfaef0352bfcccc47a21b3207dc8;hb=HEAD Nov 10 18:34:02 on the other hand, I didn't know that and now will probably get my phone connecting to my work network =) Nov 10 18:34:05 to add IPSec support to the API Nov 10 18:36:18 anyone know of a bandwith meter app for Eclair? Nov 10 18:36:33 doesn't NetCounter work with Eclair? Nov 10 18:36:56 No clue, I am getting the moto droid tomm, and I just found out that 'unlimited' = 5gigabytes Nov 10 18:37:15 huh... *finds an openvpn client on his phone* damn... useful! Nov 10 18:40:07 p[emv[m Nov 10 18:40:09 openvpn would be great Nov 10 18:40:29 unless if xkahn determines that that sucks too Nov 10 18:40:50 I had to implement it as a secondary option for IT staff at work because ipsec+xauth+dhcp fails behind a LOT of routers. Nov 10 18:40:57 jeev: openvpn is awesome Nov 10 18:41:02 DIN DING DING DING Nov 10 18:41:07 lets make a client xkahn Nov 10 18:41:13 you code it, give me the source.. i'll publish it under my name Nov 10 18:41:17 haha Nov 10 18:41:21 great symbiotic relationship Nov 10 18:41:39 I'll get right on it! Nov 10 18:42:09 yay! I have a friend using google(tm) latitude with me! Nov 10 18:42:34 xkahn: Drop us a message when it is ready? :) Nov 10 18:42:35 yay! you have 0 privacy Nov 10 18:42:50 jeev: it's for my own safety :) Nov 10 18:43:09 heh you must be 12! Nov 10 18:43:34 I'm convinced that one day I will be kidnapped. as henry spencer said to shawn spencer, it's not 'if' you get locked in a trunk, but 'when' Nov 10 18:44:18 khelek: but hey at least know you know to kick out the brakelight Nov 10 18:44:39 zinx: awesome! someone got the reference :) Nov 10 18:44:53 zinx: and very true...I'm keeping that in my back pocket :) Nov 10 18:44:55 totally getting netcounter thanks guys Nov 10 18:45:05 netcounter? Nov 10 18:45:09 yeah Nov 10 18:45:15 hey, if you dont want your contacts stored at google Nov 10 18:45:16 http://www.jaqpot.net/netcounter/ Nov 10 18:45:20 you can disable it, right Nov 10 18:45:22 i dropped pptp in favour of ssh with tun support Nov 10 18:45:37 jeev: yeah...that's the only reason why I'm doing it...it's private when you want it to be Nov 10 18:45:53 how did you do it Nov 10 18:46:15 can anyone tell me about Eclair apps that put you into Multimedia/Car Dock mode? Nov 10 18:46:20 (for the droid) Nov 10 18:46:46 jeev: on the droid, I went to maps and then brought up the menu....one of the options is 'latitude' and you can choose whether to show people. after that you invite friends you want to stalk, er, see you Nov 10 18:46:50 what do you want to know about them, rhl6856 ? Nov 10 18:46:59 not talking about maps! Nov 10 18:47:07 i want to know how to disable google from taking my data Nov 10 18:47:10 i dont want them to back it up Nov 10 18:47:11 Is there a way to force my droid to connect to a wireless access point? Nov 10 18:47:23 jeev: first you put on a tin foil hat... Nov 10 18:47:34 i have my school's wireless settings saved Nov 10 18:47:46 but it never says it is in range Nov 10 18:47:59 jeev: then you check the settings under "Data Synchronization" Nov 10 18:48:12 jeev: oops, sorry Nov 10 18:48:39 phone sees the access points but says they are wep rather than connecting the 802.1x connection i set up Nov 10 18:48:45 band-aid: i don't think you can force it if it's out of range (mind that mobile devices have less powerful cards) Nov 10 18:49:08 litui, welcome to the world. it monetizes on your information.. if you can't accept that, give me your email -- i've got a nigerian email scam for you Nov 10 18:49:49 jeev: I'll add it to the stack that my beloved google filters to my spam box. Nov 10 18:49:50 =) Nov 10 18:49:52 SuD: it is in range Nov 10 18:49:57 i can see it Nov 10 18:50:06 but the phone thinks it is wep Nov 10 18:50:38 so it won't connect using my 802.1x profile I made Nov 10 18:50:42 litui, point of google is to have data, forever. Nov 10 18:50:46 i have an exclusive 2GHz phone, with Full HD screen, just send me $20 and reserve it... scam@officialsite.com Nov 10 18:50:55 zomg rly? Nov 10 18:50:59 * tuanies sends Nov 10 18:51:39 jeev: it's up to you whether to determine if that exchange is fair or not. Personally, my choice is not to care and to agree to their terms of use. =) I did provide you the instructions though... go to Settings, Data Synchronization, and disable contact sync. Nov 10 18:53:01 KNY, do they exist? I heard that the only way to get into those modes is via a purchase of the docks (i.e. using the hardware magnets) Nov 10 18:53:13 i dont have data stync Nov 10 18:53:17 i have account and sync settings Nov 10 18:53:21 inside i have background data and auto-sync Nov 10 18:53:27 rhl6856: I'm not sure. Look through the APIs I guess. Nov 10 18:53:42 KNY, thanks Nov 10 18:54:01 rh1:you can launch the navigation ui from your apps panel Nov 10 18:54:12 jeev: sorry, can't be of use then... the options on my G1 are different. Nov 10 18:54:24 haven't found out how to do the media one though Nov 10 18:55:48 hrmf Nov 10 19:02:08 jeev: is the option in Contacts/Accounts/Manage Accounts ? just browsing forums Nov 10 19:09:23 band-aid, thanks, what about multimedia? Nov 10 19:11:50 hi @all Nov 10 19:12:17 have a question Nov 10 19:12:36 hello. Nov 10 19:12:39 is is possible to change the style of a view on focus? Nov 10 19:12:46 e.g. tablelayout Nov 10 19:13:07 this is a question for #android-dev. Also, please read /topic :) Nov 10 19:13:21 ah sorry Nov 10 19:22:01 evening.. I was wondering if it was possible to reconfigure the dialing keys to be like those of the numpad.. ? Nov 10 19:22:07 good evening Nov 10 19:22:36 reflect: you mean square ? Nov 10 19:23:06 SuD: I mean zero at the bottom, then 123, 456, 789 Nov 10 19:23:24 phones usually go the opposite way Nov 10 19:24:11 i don't know of an option to do that Nov 10 19:24:33 it puzzles me Nov 10 19:24:45 i have a short question, anybody allready had the problem, gtalk keeps saying loggin in? Nov 10 19:24:59 with no error-message Nov 10 19:25:15 i like the gtalk-service Nov 10 19:25:38 people have been using computers for 30 years in the homes or so now.. and I bet the numpad is pretty well used.. yet phones.. they don't follow that standard.. they go the opposite way Nov 10 19:27:19 reflect: Phones have been in people's homes for much longer? Nov 10 19:28:55 xkahn: not the keypad types.. they used those round dialers.. and besides, if people are getting used to the numpad (when paying their bills, doing math, whatever) why not have an option to configure their phone to work the same way? Nov 10 19:29:08 what happened to cyrket.com? Nov 10 19:30:51 how do I control which applications get avrcp input? Nov 10 19:31:11 people have been using computers for 30 years in the homes? Nov 10 19:31:18 what kind of stupid statement is that Nov 10 19:31:29 and touch tone phones have been around for far longer Nov 10 19:31:56 you missed the "or so" Nov 10 19:32:23 drop inverted numpads, drop imperial units, drop edge and cdma Nov 10 19:32:41 pc's barely started being used in the early 80's Nov 10 19:32:44 and only very barely Nov 10 19:34:52 Anyway to use google voice visual voicemail on my droid instead of using verizon visual voicemail but use my verizon telephone number? Nov 10 19:35:03 pfn: then disregard the years (cause that's irrelevant to the issue) and ask yourself what the point is of having two keypad standards.. and if there are two, why are phones locked to using one of them? Nov 10 19:35:41 because phones traditionally have an inverted keypad Nov 10 19:35:43 er, upright Nov 10 19:35:51 while calculators and computing instruments have been the other way around Nov 10 19:36:11 and the point of keeping it separated, without choice, is.. Nov 10 19:36:33 is there a way to capture the phone device parameters then email? Nov 10 19:43:21 uh oh. so, my ADP1 Dream has been behaving rather oddly when the headset is plugged in, and not detecting on USB. So, I gave it a reboot, and it always brings up fastboot in "Serial0" mode. Nov 10 19:43:23 hello all! Nov 10 19:43:39 I have a bad feeling like the connector or related hardware has got a Problem. Nov 10 19:43:46 orospakr: futz with the camera button, maybe? Nov 10 19:43:50 anybody please help me with android porting!!! Nov 10 19:43:52 ctate, tried Nov 10 19:43:52 it sounds like one of the hard keys might be stuck Nov 10 19:43:57 meh Nov 10 19:44:30 ctate, oh yeah, and when I have the headset plugged in, the music player starts skipping between tracks and pausing/resuming quickly and erratically, as if it was getting a lot of bugus headset button events. Nov 10 19:45:49 hey guys Nov 10 19:46:29 pfn: and as a sidenote.. yes, people have been using computers in their homes for 30 or so years, and that statement isn't stupid, I just wanted to cover every base.. even if the real boom only was 20 years ago or whatever.. and then, the keypad thing on phones, that differs wildly depending on country, and how they adopted that once it got available.. Nov 10 19:47:25 i was wondering if it was possible to intercept the voice data to and from a phone call if the user initiates the call from an application. For example, they launch the program, choose a voice mask setting, and make a call within the program, and the porgram would have access to masking their voice Nov 10 19:47:37 no, computers haven't been used in the home for 30 or so years Nov 10 19:47:56 the PC was launched in about 1983 as a niche product Nov 10 19:48:06 apple II around a similar time Nov 10 19:48:18 pfn: and that's not 30 or so years? Nov 10 19:48:29 26 years, I wouldn't quite call it 30 or so Nov 10 19:48:32 "almost 30" maybe Nov 10 19:48:37 and that's stretching it Nov 10 19:49:01 are you people really arguing how long computers/phones have been in use as to which number orientation should be used on a PHONE? Nov 10 19:49:16 I'm just being an asshole and arguing semantics of 30 years Nov 10 19:49:16 :p Nov 10 19:49:28 its a PHONE, use the standards of the PHONE on it :-) Nov 10 19:49:45 not arguing which keypad orientation is correct, don't really care Nov 10 19:49:47 I don't know.. I find this a bit incredible to argue some.. detail when it's hardly relevant to the point made Nov 10 19:49:48 krphop, and I agree Nov 10 19:50:17 have you ever seen a phone with numpad number orientation? Nov 10 19:50:20 didnt think so :-P Nov 10 19:50:36 krphop: and THAT's a reason to keep it so? Nov 10 19:50:47 absolutely Nov 10 19:50:50 ah the dual screen e-reader someone wanted the other night: http://www.gearlog.com/2009/11/dual-screen_ebook_reader_runs.php Nov 10 19:51:04 why dont americans just drive on the left side of the road like everyone else? Nov 10 19:51:11 why dont americans use the metric system like everyone else? Nov 10 19:51:12 reflect, everyone else? Nov 10 19:51:15 because, we done. Nov 10 19:51:21 s/reflect// Nov 10 19:51:22 s/done/dont Nov 10 19:51:35 krphop, remember when phone keypads weren't keypads, but were rotary dials? Nov 10 19:51:37 shit changes Nov 10 19:51:45 * reflect sighs Nov 10 19:51:50 I thought it's just the UK that drives backwards Nov 10 19:51:51 heh, true :-) Nov 10 19:51:53 * JCold gets old and falls over **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 19:53:47 2009 Nov 10 19:54:00 well then, looks like a problem... Nov 10 19:54:04 Users can take notes or doodle on the electronic ink display using the included stylus. Nov 10 19:54:13 krphop: looks more like a suggestion to me. Nov 10 19:54:16 reflect, changing it on android should be pretty straightforward Nov 10 19:55:04 hmm, HOME+BACK still brings up recovery. I'll try reflashing and see if that clears it up. Nov 10 19:55:38 * pfn uninstalls meridian Nov 10 19:55:59 i was wondering if it was possible to intercept the voice data to and from a phone call if the user initiates the call from an application. For example, they launch the program, choose a voice mask setting, and make a call within the program, and the porgram would have access to masking their voice Nov 10 19:56:54 madman91: should be possible I think... In ADC (android developer contest) there's some secretary app which answers phone calls for you etc. Nov 10 19:58:50 ugh, I wish the bootloader was also Free Software, so it wouldn't be like black magic trying to get this thing to boot properly. Nov 10 20:06:14 so, if a person has a suggestion for android, where would he turn to? their "product ideas" blog? Nov 10 20:07:17 reflect: b.android.com Nov 10 20:08:02 ah, makes sense Nov 10 20:08:10 thank you Nov 10 20:08:18 b? are they really being lazy? Nov 10 20:08:26 bugs.android.com would have been so much more straightforward Nov 10 20:08:31 s/lazy/"cheap" Nov 10 20:08:36 (bandwidth/typing/keystrokes) Nov 10 20:09:26 I hear today, by limiting the url, you save ridiculous amounts of GBits/month for a popular url, so.. Nov 10 20:10:14 perhaps in 10 years, www.google.com would be.. g.c :) Nov 10 20:10:54 or nics will be 100gbit, and it wont matter Nov 10 20:12:29 oh, it'll still matter.. atleast with the current price model between ISPs.. Nov 10 20:12:46 orospakr: on? Nov 10 20:13:39 tmzt, hm? on what? Nov 10 20:13:40 madman91: android can't get or send call audio on g1 and magic etc. Nov 10 20:14:54 tmzt: makes sense... wouldn't want people being able to cheat paying outrageous rates for voicemail ;) Nov 10 20:15:30 reflect: you might need abc def etc. Nov 10 20:16:32 orospakr: bootloader Nov 10 20:17:16 tmzt: but that shouldn't change, if you just change the order of the keys.. like, on the computer numpad of today.. Nov 10 20:17:33 tmzt: unless you were talking about something else? :) Nov 10 20:18:33 tmzt, engineering bootloader on an ADP1. Nov 10 20:19:36 I wonder if there's some sort of crap in HBOOT that's the problem. I wish HTC's boot process was better documented. Nov 10 20:19:57 orospakr: radio -> hboot -> linux kernel -> android Nov 10 20:20:08 I want to start using my gmail inbox Nov 10 20:20:10 how do I delete shit out of it? Nov 10 20:20:18 I have like 10,000 messages I want to get rid of Nov 10 20:20:27 um, the delete button? Nov 10 20:20:27 zinx, radio is involved in booting the application processor? huh. Nov 10 20:20:33 orospakr: Yes. Nov 10 20:20:47 zinx, where does the SPL live? Nov 10 20:20:56 orospakr: that's the hboot Nov 10 20:21:12 orospakr: it lives on flash memory just like the radio and everything else, afaik Nov 10 20:21:56 I've noticed that some procedures put some sort of one-time job to execute on next reboot. That's done via somehow in the hboot, correct? Nov 10 20:23:29 orospakr: i don't know what does that Nov 10 20:30:28 spl live in the land of dont-mess-with-it Nov 10 20:30:52 SuD, which is a Bug. Because sometimes, like in my case, it apparently insists on being messed with. Nov 10 20:31:53 orospakr: i dunno what you are doing man, but it's got to be terribly evil :) Nov 10 20:33:41 nevermind, I only just now noticed the link, if you select all 100, it'll ask you if you want to select the remaining thousands Nov 10 20:33:44 convenient Nov 10 20:33:55 orospakr: i am 80% sure its done on the cache partition Nov 10 20:34:41 /cache/recovery/command <---- commands written here will be read by recovery during a reboot and executed Nov 10 20:35:04 connectbot in 1.6 how do i get su/root Nov 10 20:35:16 zer0her0: downgrade Nov 10 20:35:26 this is on a dev phone Nov 10 20:35:29 oh Nov 10 20:35:33 sorry Nov 10 20:35:35 hehe Nov 10 20:35:38 su Nov 10 20:35:45 zer0her0: install a 'su' alternative that allows stuff other than "adb shell" to get root Nov 10 20:35:56 DarkriftX: tried that Nov 10 20:35:59 hi Nov 10 20:36:03 zinx: any suggestions? Nov 10 20:36:06 zer0her0: http://zenthought.org/tmp/superuser-for-stock.apk Nov 10 20:36:16 zinx: thanks Nov 10 20:36:37 you will need to install it via adb shell w/ su or whatever Nov 10 20:36:48 yea i keep forgetting adb shell Nov 10 20:36:52 i didn't make it in update.zip form Nov 10 20:37:03 adb install superuser-for-stock.apk Nov 10 20:37:08 oh sorry Nov 10 20:37:09 it's .zip Nov 10 20:37:16 and really isn't an apk :x Nov 10 20:37:30 :-P Nov 10 20:37:31 Well nevermind then. :P Nov 10 20:37:36 http://zenthought.org/tmp/superuser-for-stock.zip Nov 10 20:37:42 freudian slip? :P Nov 10 20:37:47 I had read that Milestone (european version of Droid) will not be GE Nov 10 20:37:54 Loonacy: it has a different 'su' binary in addition to the apk Nov 10 20:38:34 otacon: GE? Nov 10 20:38:37 i'll have to wait till i'm home then Nov 10 20:39:44 I'm a little worried about it Nov 10 20:42:49 zinx, I rebooted my phone. :P Nov 10 20:42:59 zinx, I know! pretty evil, isn't it? ;) Nov 10 20:43:26 Argh Nov 10 20:43:54 Anybody here got a droid working on THEIR exchange server (i mean, you being the e-mail admin) Nov 10 20:44:08 I can't get mine connected and Verizon/Motorola's tech support as of yet have been no help. Nov 10 20:44:32 what's exchange do? Nov 10 20:44:48 Death_Syn: do? Nov 10 20:44:55 like, can it run POP or IMAP? Nov 10 20:45:18 It can, but i bought this thing because they advertised Exchange ActiveSync (push) support. Nov 10 20:45:24 well, that's not the ONLY reason Nov 10 20:45:25 oh Nov 10 20:45:29 but it helped. Nov 10 20:45:32 dunno anything about that Nov 10 20:45:33 sorry Nov 10 20:45:46 thx though. :) Nov 10 20:46:10 It's supposed to sync the Mail/Contacts/Calendar etc. Nov 10 20:48:41 it's bad that Milestone will not be GE? Nov 10 20:49:07 hi everyone Nov 10 20:49:47 GE? Nov 10 20:49:58 google experience? Nov 10 20:50:09 general electric? Nov 10 20:50:35 ^^ Nov 10 20:50:39 google experience Nov 10 20:50:51 What exactly is "Google Experience"? A sort of seal of quality with certain standards to be met? Nov 10 20:50:52 will Android 2.0 be available for the Samsung Moment later? Nov 10 20:50:56 google experience? Nov 10 20:51:10 it means that google apps (gmail, etc) are part of it Nov 10 20:51:22 lov: no, it means more than that Nov 10 20:51:33 HTC's devices with SenseUI aren't google experience, for example Nov 10 20:51:37 it means it's officially approved by google, thats all. sometimes, like the hero, its not Nov 10 20:51:39 but they have all the google apps on them Nov 10 20:51:44 I am wrong then! :D Nov 10 20:51:44 it's been customized Nov 10 20:52:12 google experience isn't particularly something one should crave. it is what it is Nov 10 20:52:38 some people figure they could sell mroe phones with a google label on the back Nov 10 20:52:53 mmm, google experience Nov 10 20:52:58 Phones with logos on them annoy me. Nov 10 20:53:08 Samsung moment currently has the 1.6 version, but is it possible to download to 2.0 ? Nov 10 20:53:27 securageek: no Nov 10 20:53:37 securageek: the only phone with 2.0 afaik is the motorola droid/sholes Nov 10 20:53:50 zinx: sholes? Nov 10 20:53:56 I thought droid was only one Nov 10 20:54:00 yes...true Nov 10 20:54:04 droid is the sholes i think Nov 10 20:54:08 ah Nov 10 20:54:13 before they actually named it the droid its code name was the sholes Nov 10 20:54:17 but I don't want to switch to Verizon over Sprint Nov 10 20:54:33 I have a better employee discount with Sprint Nov 10 20:54:52 Motorola Droid looks very good though Nov 10 20:54:56 I have to admit Nov 10 20:55:15 faster processor than the Moment of course Nov 10 20:55:21 securageek: it's worth it :) Nov 10 20:55:24 but the Moment looks very good too Nov 10 20:55:37 khelek: your right it is Nov 10 20:55:41 khelek: droid's ro.product.board = sholes Nov 10 20:55:53 khelek: there may be other phones w/ the same board but different name Nov 10 20:55:53 zinx: ah, thanks! :) Nov 10 20:55:54 but for me< I'm ok with Sprint Nov 10 20:56:12 so I'll get the Samsung Moment in a couple of weeks when my Sprint contract ends Nov 10 20:56:27 securageek: truth be known, I was just eager to get an android phone. Being able to get the droid was just icing. all I wanted was the OS Nov 10 20:56:48 khelek: I agree Nov 10 20:57:10 securageek: I also have to admit I like the look of the hero/eris.... Nov 10 20:57:21 Android is already blowing up, many will adopt it more and more as time goes by Nov 10 20:57:35 anyone disagrees? Nov 10 20:57:47 khelek: I wanted android with a keyboard. It's just bonus points if it's metal and looks industrial as hell :) Nov 10 20:57:59 so, this "G.E." isn't something to look about... hm, better because in europe it's seams that motorola milestone / droid, will not be "G.E." Nov 10 20:58:13 otacon: i wouldn't let that stop you from getting it. Nov 10 20:58:16 hmmmm.... Nov 10 20:58:36 AbortRetryFail: lol...I do have to admit, the keyboard wasn't such a big deal before I got it. then I remembered why I loved my ENV so much :) and yeah, the industrial feel to it is very nice. Nov 10 20:58:47 * pfn has a 21% employee discount with vzw Nov 10 20:58:50 service Nov 10 20:58:57 I came from a Palm TX Nov 10 20:59:04 20c per text message, hmm, maybe I should get the text message plan after all Nov 10 20:59:11 I got 20% with Sprint Nov 10 20:59:22 pfn: congrats, you pay what they should be charging everyone. :) Nov 10 20:59:36 but Sprint's plan is cheaper than Verizons, I checked it out Nov 10 20:59:39 pfn: google voice sms FTW Nov 10 20:59:48 khelek: is right Nov 10 20:59:51 ^ Nov 10 20:59:56 <3 google voice :) Nov 10 21:00:01 AbortRetryFail: you and me both! Nov 10 21:00:04 yet another reason why i didn't want an iphone Nov 10 21:00:17 i wish i could flip from tmobile to verizon for droid Nov 10 21:00:17 what's the big deal about gv Nov 10 21:00:20 AbortRetryFail: me too Nov 10 21:00:21 * pfn doesn't understand it still Nov 10 21:00:40 it's one number that rings all your phones and voicemail that goes to your e-mail Nov 10 21:00:50 * zinx would not switch to verizon even if he wasn't in a contract :/ Nov 10 21:00:53 having control of voicemail would be nice Nov 10 21:00:53 but I"m hoping that tmobile will get an equivalent phone by the time my contract is up Nov 10 21:00:59 I don't care too much about the one number stuff Nov 10 21:01:03 pfn: the sms is nice....free texting built in. Nov 10 21:01:03 zinx: i get verizon service from work. Nov 10 21:01:08 pfn: Google Voice is just more convenient for me Nov 10 21:01:10 pfn: you also go transcription of your voicemails Nov 10 21:01:14 got them to let me put the Droid on it if i pay for the phone. Nov 10 21:01:15 * khelek wishes twitter would work with gv sms Nov 10 21:01:15 Death_Syn: it's rumored that the sholes is coming to verizon Nov 10 21:01:20 Death_Syn, yeah, having control of voice mail would be nice :p Nov 10 21:01:21 Death_Syn: errh, to t-mobile Nov 10 21:01:43 khelek: why? just install one of the (far too many) twitter clients... Nov 10 21:01:44 AbortRetryFail: that's what I did....paid for the phone and set up a personal account, and then had them bring it into the corpoprate Nov 10 21:01:46 zinx: T-Mobile USA? Nov 10 21:01:55 Death_Syn: dunno about that, tbqh Nov 10 21:01:56 i've heard some noise about milestone in .de Nov 10 21:02:06 AbortRetryFail: oh, I know...I've got swift. but you can't find too many ways to twitter :) Nov 10 21:02:09 but that doesn't do me much good here Nov 10 21:02:21 * pfn hasn't been much a fan of using twitter or facebook Nov 10 21:02:29 I only like facebook because I can bring all my contacts to my phone Nov 10 21:02:38 Death_Syn: yeah it does, just buy one unlocked and put in your sim Nov 10 21:02:42 pfn: you must be one of those people who "have a life" :) Nov 10 21:02:50 Using Twitter for news updates Nov 10 21:02:51 * khelek speaks as a twitter/facebook addict Nov 10 21:02:52 I wish i had a GSM carrier... Nov 10 21:02:54 AbortRetryFail: true, but it'd be EDGE only Nov 10 21:03:09 Tmobile 3g band is not the same as the euro frequencies Nov 10 21:03:12 khelek, nah, probably the opposite, heh Nov 10 21:03:13 Death_Syn: whys that? Nov 10 21:03:13 * loves Android Nov 10 21:03:14 oh Nov 10 21:03:14 in the USA Nov 10 21:03:26 HSPA works on my friend's weird japanese phone Nov 10 21:04:02 computer world has an article that the Eris is better than the Droid, even though it only runs 1.5. Although it says neither is as good as the iPhone. Nov 10 21:04:03 securageek: seriously....what happened Friday was what I've waited ~2 years for since iphone was released and I heard about android. And it's not disappointing Nov 10 21:04:21 I'm glad I passed up all the iphones and crackberries and other smartphones Nov 10 21:04:25 perlmonkey2: sounds like they didn't use them. Nov 10 21:04:27 I will miss my env, though Nov 10 21:04:39 the browser on the blackberry is awful. Nov 10 21:04:42 i mean AWFUL Nov 10 21:04:58 Is that true the Eris only comes with 1.5 and not at least 1.6? And the article even said it wasn't capable of running 2.0. Nov 10 21:05:02 also having to use BES for anything useful network related. Nov 10 21:05:07 What's funny is that RIM seems to keep selling more of 'em. (not the Storm, but still) Nov 10 21:05:17 On my droid i can dial into my vpn and ssh to a server all from the phone Nov 10 21:05:22 no special shit to install here. Nov 10 21:05:31 perlmonkey2, I think it's 1.5, dunno Nov 10 21:05:35 perlmonkey2, and I have one... heh Nov 10 21:05:49 that said, PPTP vpn support in 2.0 works nicely :) Nov 10 21:05:54 pfn: check because that would be strange if it ran 1.5 instead of 1.6 Nov 10 21:06:09 I haven't really investigated Nov 10 21:06:16 ssh? Nov 10 21:06:38 with what application? Nov 10 21:06:45 pfn: check settings->about phone Nov 10 21:06:52 AbortRetryFail, it's not with me right now Nov 10 21:07:03 tmzt: ConnectBot Nov 10 21:07:10 connectbot is sweet Nov 10 21:07:14 * khelek likes connectbot Nov 10 21:07:19 I also like how it can generate it's own keys. Nov 10 21:07:39 Connectbot is god. Nov 10 21:07:39 loading a key onto my Palm TX to use with pssh proved to be such a pain in the ass, i almost didnt bother. Nov 10 21:07:58 so, I ordered 3 micro usb cables on line for $1.49 apiece and thought Imight pop into target and get one to have til then...those things are $15+ retail! Nov 10 21:08:38 I asked this earlier.. then had to run before I could see if anyone responded. Is there anyway to use the voicemail from my google voice account on my Droid instead of the verizon visual voicemail but use my verizon number? Nov 10 21:09:05 mikepett: yes Nov 10 21:09:07 I have it set up Nov 10 21:09:10 AbortRetryFail: connectbot ships? Nov 10 21:09:18 sweet... hook a brother up! :) Nov 10 21:09:20 I didn't see it at vzw store Nov 10 21:09:25 I think you have to set it up in your GV account on the web Nov 10 21:09:33 wtf is ships Nov 10 21:09:42 tmzt: no i just downloaded it from the market Nov 10 21:09:50 with the phone Nov 10 21:09:53 VPN support ships with it though Nov 10 21:10:05 i was impressed with that since they didnt really advertise it. Nov 10 21:10:12 hmm, there's a call-forward-on-no-answer option on vzw's site Nov 10 21:10:17 mikepett: check gv site Nov 10 21:10:17 I guess I could use that for using my own voicemail setup Nov 10 21:10:27 that would be pretty nice Nov 10 21:10:36 forwarding instructions should be there Nov 10 21:10:45 gv is also nice to have since you can screen calls with it. Nov 10 21:10:48 too bad DID numbers cost me money instead of free Nov 10 21:10:52 hmmm... I'll check ti out. thanks guys. Nov 10 21:12:19 Eris is Hero Nov 10 21:12:40 so it's still 1.5 apparenyly Nov 10 21:13:19 Did europe get a different HTC Hero than the US? Nov 10 21:14:59 AbortRetryFail: yes Nov 10 21:15:12 AbortRetryFail: different plastic, anyway Nov 10 21:15:20 Yeah i thought I saw pics of one, it was less round and had a trackball Nov 10 21:15:36 Sprint hero or the tmobile one? Nov 10 21:15:43 oh god i dont know Nov 10 21:15:46 lol Nov 10 21:16:03 that's the first Hero I think you are describing Nov 10 21:16:50 I do wish they'd put a trackball on the Droid instead of a 5-way dpad but there's no way it would have been this thin. Nov 10 21:17:12 hi Nov 10 21:17:41 does anybody have tested Droid with a Bluetooth keyboard? Nov 10 21:17:49 maybe they could have if they had the screen slide up instead of just the keyboard Nov 10 21:17:51 or knows if it works? Nov 10 21:18:04 ouah: not yet. I have a friend with one i can ask to borrow it. Nov 10 21:18:16 does it claim to support Bluetooth HID? Nov 10 21:18:51 the BT stack supports HID profile, but not idea for the Android API Nov 10 21:18:59 When an app is removed are any files/db's it has created automagically removed? Nov 10 21:19:07 tried to search in the 2.0 SDK but cannot find a relevant info Nov 10 21:19:24 pity the source isn't out yet Nov 10 21:19:29 you could just check if the code is in there. Nov 10 21:20:43 because with Android 1.5 and 1.6, blueZ stack have HID profile but Android doesnt interface it Nov 10 21:20:58 BlueZ has nearly every profile Nov 10 21:21:15 it depends how you compile it Nov 10 21:21:19 true. Nov 10 21:21:58 if somebody has a Droid and could do a try with a BT kbd (or even BT mouse), that would be great:) Nov 10 21:22:25 ouah: you actually think a bt mouse would work on it? Nov 10 21:22:42 I dont have a bt keyb to easily test, though I'd imagine it would work .. mouse would be cool though Nov 10 21:22:49 not with a cursor, but it should replace the G1 trackball Nov 10 21:23:01 well, I was thinking more with the rdp client Nov 10 21:23:14 now, if it had hdmi out ... Nov 10 21:23:19 or even just dvi Nov 10 21:23:23 no need to carry a laptop :) Nov 10 21:23:30 and it included a free pony.... Nov 10 21:23:45 yeah, that'd be ok Nov 10 21:24:36 ouah: I can give it a try later if my friend still has his Bt keyboard. Nov 10 21:24:42 so what's the new google voice for android Nov 10 21:24:52 warewolf: new? Nov 10 21:25:01 I spose the droid would struggle to push 1024x768 even Nov 10 21:25:07 AbortRetryFail: that would be nice Nov 10 21:25:07 yeah, as of a day or two ago? Nov 10 21:25:14 I just noticed that an update was available Nov 10 21:25:23 warewolf: OTA? Nov 10 21:25:31 no. Nov 10 21:25:36 on the market. Nov 10 21:25:41 I get nothing OTA Nov 10 21:25:42 AbortRetryFail: if I'm no longer in the chan, could you mail me the result of your test? ouah@ouah.org Nov 10 21:25:45 denon: 854x480 isn't too much smaller than 1024x768 Nov 10 21:25:52 try RDP on 320x240 some time.... Nov 10 21:26:00 anyone know a safe way to clean the touch screen of the droid? Nov 10 21:26:02 warewolf: what's it under on the market? Nov 10 21:26:04 the vzw cat? Nov 10 21:26:23 khelek: I've been using a lightly damp paper towel. Nov 10 21:26:32 denon: you're new. The VZW droid isn't the only android phone on the market. Nov 10 21:26:41 i suppose you could use a micro-fiber cloth if you're paranoid Nov 10 21:27:17 warewolf: hm, thought you said "droid" as opposed to "android" Nov 10 21:27:18 my mistake Nov 10 21:27:23 I'm new here, but not that new :) Nov 10 21:27:25 AbortRetryFail: I'm paranoid :) Nov 10 21:27:35 AbortRetryFail: (thanks!) Nov 10 21:27:37 I dont like paper towels, they have the little wood fibers .. Nov 10 21:27:46 glasses cleaners (micro fiber) tend to be safer long term methinks Nov 10 21:27:51 khelek: mine goes in my pocket. It's already collecting some dust :/ Nov 10 21:28:01 0.2.6 Nov 10 21:28:08 denon: it's glass. find me a piece of wood that can scratch glass and you're on. Nov 10 21:28:09 AbortRetryFail: yeah, I know...that's one thing I don't like and really bothers me :-/ Nov 10 21:28:23 khelek: the speaker slot seems to collect a lot of dust Nov 10 21:28:41 AbortRetryFail: paranoia as khelek suggested .. I like to baby my gear Nov 10 21:28:42 AbortRetryFail: you know, I just noticed that this morning... Nov 10 21:29:00 denon: yeah not me. There's a reason i usually buy metal case covers. Nov 10 21:29:16 I tend to baby my toys too Nov 10 21:29:17 hehe Nov 10 21:29:24 I keep my stuff for years and year Nov 10 21:29:24 s Nov 10 21:29:32 and then usually give it to a friend or relative like new Nov 10 21:29:35 AbortRetryFail: does petrified wood count? Nov 10 21:29:42 warewolf: no it's stone, not wood. Nov 10 21:29:53 also, burned and artificially converted to diamond doesnt' count either ;) Nov 10 21:31:20 have they released accessories for the droid yet? Nov 10 21:31:57 car dock and home dock Nov 10 21:32:04 They're out already? Nov 10 21:32:06 oh! and I love the 'shazam' app....though it couldn't figure out the bon jovi song I liked somuch that USA was using as a promo theme Nov 10 21:32:07 yes Nov 10 21:32:09 sure Nov 10 21:32:13 they were out before the droid was Nov 10 21:32:18 although the car dock seems really lame Nov 10 21:32:20 both vzw and motorola branded ones Nov 10 21:32:26 the motorola page has a car dock that includes a charger Nov 10 21:32:31 the moto car dock is actually better quality than the vzw, and comes with a charger Nov 10 21:32:33 but the available vzw car dock doesn't Nov 10 21:32:35 I was debating the car dock, but not sure where it'll fit with my ipod in the way Nov 10 21:33:03 car dock is an easy sell for me, the car nav is too good to pass up Nov 10 21:33:25 dunno, the nav looks a little amateur compared to my tomtom Nov 10 21:33:29 but I'm sure it'll get better Nov 10 21:33:35 external gps ant>? Nov 10 21:33:36 looks pretty good to me Nov 10 21:33:44 especially the overlay on streetview Nov 10 21:33:49 how does it look a little amateur? Nov 10 21:33:51 and the choosing routes Nov 10 21:34:04 not to mention real time traffic Nov 10 21:34:04 oh I dunno, the features, the way you enter routes, finding stuff along the way .. etc Nov 10 21:34:06 huh. the charge LED on my adp1 stayed on with the phone off and the USB unplugged. I think my board really is screwed. Nov 10 21:34:22 oh yeah, and my desktop's dmesg gets full of usb errors whenever I have the thing plugged in. Nov 10 21:34:24 I like how tomtom it's easy to find stuff along the route, menu navs, etc .. feels more like a devices and less like a web page Nov 10 21:34:27 So! ADP1 warranty time! Nov 10 21:34:38 not complaining, just saying tomtom feels a little better for the job Nov 10 21:34:48 that, and I like the larger screen Nov 10 21:35:02 which ADP1 warranty time? Nov 10 21:35:43 how can I connect the emulator to the web? Nov 10 21:37:54 benc1: it should be connected Nov 10 21:38:52 I've tried 'ping google.com' Nov 10 21:39:06 in the terminal emulator but there is no response Nov 10 21:39:11 maybe because I'm using a router? Nov 10 21:39:12 there is no host called "google.com" Nov 10 21:39:17 try "www.google.com" :) Nov 10 21:39:30 terminal emulator? Nov 10 21:39:34 is it possible to recompile android 2.0 and put it on my motorola? I want root! Nov 10 21:39:42 ctate: wildcard works fine for me normally Nov 10 21:39:48 bmusson_: what motorola? Nov 10 21:39:53 A855 Nov 10 21:40:12 ctate: trying. it just hangs Nov 10 21:40:17 what is that? Nov 10 21:40:24 is it an ezx or magx phone? Nov 10 21:40:28 a855 = droid Nov 10 21:40:32 ah Nov 10 21:40:39 someone's trying to be "smart" Nov 10 21:40:42 sorry about that. Nov 10 21:40:45 =D Nov 10 21:40:48 there is no root yet, we are discussing it in #android-root and #openezx Nov 10 21:40:54 what's openezx? Nov 10 21:40:58 bmusson_: that's okay, I just didn't know Nov 10 21:41:14 an open version of the linux kernel for old motorola phones Nov 10 21:41:17 like the ming, etc. Nov 10 21:41:19 key ring rewards sounds pretty cool Nov 10 21:41:32 * spikebike lusted after the razr 2 v8 (linux based) Nov 10 21:41:41 joined the forum for the related source Nov 10 21:41:49 and 2 motorola folks gently asked wtf I was doing there Nov 10 21:42:10 So I am wondering if there is a way to reboot the phone in a single user mode? Nov 10 21:42:11 then said they didn't actually want anyone to join, participate, or contribute, they just wanted to fullfill the gpl Nov 10 21:42:27 I wish android supported different volumes for media playback depending on output Nov 10 21:42:28 and if i did manage to do so, how do I get the serial console? Nov 10 21:42:38 speakerphone, headphone or bluetooth headset Nov 10 21:42:48 I have the media volume cranked up to max on bluetooth headset Nov 10 21:42:53 but if I disconnect, it blares out the speakers Nov 10 21:43:00 (bluetooth headset has its own volume control) Nov 10 21:43:03 spikebike: what forum? the source as actually posted but it's a magx phone and impossible to work with Nov 10 21:43:24 pfn: baffles me why a bluetooth device wouldn't "share" the volume digitally with the player .. Nov 10 21:43:35 so that you adjusting your volume really just adjusts the player's output Nov 10 21:43:39 seems like .. well, it's 2009 Nov 10 21:43:54 denon, yeah, that, too, but that'd be part of the avrcp profile Nov 10 21:43:58 and not a2dp Nov 10 21:43:58 tmzt this was awhile back, I think it was a link off of developer.motorola.com Nov 10 21:44:00 nod Nov 10 21:44:10 but yeah, my headset does avrcp, too.... Nov 10 21:44:18 and damnit, it *should* share the volume with the device Nov 10 21:44:21 pfn: the mono headset does not do avrcp Nov 10 21:44:30 who said anything about a mono headset? :p Nov 10 21:44:31 Who the hell is "Rena Nixon"? When you call Brightstar's service number, that's who's voicemail you get. Nov 10 21:45:29 pfn: I mean that just uses at commands, not avrcp Nov 10 21:45:40 android treats avrcp like a keyboard, it's pretty cool Nov 10 21:46:09 I have a jabra bt3030 Nov 10 21:46:16 got it for $16 off dinodirect.com Nov 10 21:46:38 damn good deal Nov 10 21:46:43 considering msrp for it was like $70 or $80 Nov 10 21:47:56 :/ Nov 10 21:48:32 Motorola's site says the multimedia dock and car mount are "$ Coming Soon" Nov 10 21:48:53 I think I'll make my own car mount and media dock Nov 10 21:49:10 It's just a magnet sensor. Nov 10 21:49:13 I need someone to give me a dummy droid I can use as a thing to mold Nov 10 21:49:15 yeah Nov 10 21:49:20 lol Nov 10 21:49:27 I'm not shelling out $30 for a media dock Nov 10 21:49:30 i dont like this whole keeping root a secret business. Nov 10 21:49:37 ? Nov 10 21:49:44 they should have at least gave me sudo! Nov 10 21:49:55 bmusson_: me either, it should be a menu option. It's to protect "consumers" Nov 10 21:49:55 bmusson_, reduces warranty returns Nov 10 21:49:58 get a dev phone; they have root. :) Nov 10 21:50:01 ya Nov 10 21:50:18 yeah well they should have gave me the option to sudo passwd root Nov 10 21:50:22 pfn: well they could have a remove root/set to default before generating an rma Nov 10 21:50:26 (the point isn't giving YOU root, it's giving malicious apps root, obviously) Nov 10 21:50:32 root access should be in the menus with the developer settings. Nov 10 21:50:40 Wait, how hard would it be for me to load my own app on here? Nov 10 21:50:43 or even only root with adb Nov 10 21:50:46 I want to write a notification app... Nov 10 21:50:55 spikebike, huh? root -> void warranty Nov 10 21:50:59 that should be the process Nov 10 21:51:02 not "remove root" Nov 10 21:51:02 pfn: yeah Nov 10 21:51:07 i wish the activesync wasn't such a pile of crap, too Nov 10 21:51:18 bmusson_: you got yours working? Nov 10 21:51:23 no Nov 10 21:51:25 Mine won't sync with my Exchange server at all. Nov 10 21:51:30 heh, dinodirect's site is broken now Nov 10 21:51:31 my company wont allow it Nov 10 21:51:34 pfn: well I have a g1, run cyanogen, I can see them not supporting cyanogen, but if I reinstall a tmo blessed image I should be able to get a warranty Nov 10 21:51:35 my droid works fine doing activesync Nov 10 21:51:40 I put in a call with Verizon and Motorola's support today. Nov 10 21:51:47 spikebike, depends on what you're warrantying for Nov 10 21:51:52 I'm the systems admin here. It's my mail server :) Nov 10 21:51:59 spikebike, most customers will warranty due to "software" issues, I imagine Nov 10 21:52:05 pfn: hardware warranty claims shouldn't matter. Nov 10 21:52:12 AbortRetryFail, I agree, to an extent Nov 10 21:52:16 its my mail server too, but our requirements are: you must be inside of the dmz to get mail. Nov 10 21:52:16 yeah, most customers dont know the difference. Nov 10 21:52:25 unless you use activesync. Nov 10 21:52:32 bmusson_, activesync works fine Nov 10 21:52:35 what's the problem you're having Nov 10 21:52:39 bmusson_: The droid is supposed to support ActiveSync Nov 10 21:52:41 I'm even doing activesync to a non-exchange server Nov 10 21:52:46 pfn: mine won't sync at all. Nov 10 21:52:54 my company says that IT can't control the policies. Nov 10 21:52:55 there's a few bugs, though, dunno if it's because of android or our activesync implementation Nov 10 21:53:11 bmusson_, activesync is fine for working with exchange Nov 10 21:53:14 pfn: SM6? Nov 10 21:53:14 no remote wipe is the biggest loser. Nov 10 21:53:23 what's sm6? Nov 10 21:53:23 bmusson_: they probably don't. I get all kinds of micromanagement and controlling bullshit from the executives who have no idea what they're doing. Nov 10 21:53:39 pfn: oh, was wondering if that was your mail server with activesync Nov 10 21:53:45 bmusson_: I wouldn't give my work the ability to wipe my phone even if i wasn't the sysadmin... Nov 10 21:53:56 denon, no, we use zimbra Nov 10 21:54:04 pfn: how is that anyways? Nov 10 21:54:08 pfn: you have my deepest sympathies Nov 10 21:54:09 off topic, i know :) Nov 10 21:54:10 zimbra is teh win Nov 10 21:54:14 absolute and utter win Nov 10 21:54:15 AbortRetryFail, i think that the pattern recognition is the safest thing ever. Nov 10 21:54:15 * denon grins Nov 10 21:54:19 denon: +1 Nov 10 21:54:24 (keyboard lock) Nov 10 21:54:29 denon, why would you say that Nov 10 21:54:30 I just priced out exchange 2010 and it's looking very much like we're not upgrading... Nov 10 21:54:42 bmusson_: what makes it so safe? Nov 10 21:54:58 it's "safe enough" in my book. Nov 10 21:55:12 what's stopping me from tearing this phone down, hooking up a jtag cable, and dumping the flash contents? Nov 10 21:55:23 the lack of jtag headers Nov 10 21:55:35 :) Nov 10 21:55:41 headers? Nov 10 21:55:45 pins Nov 10 21:55:45 the pins are still on the chip. Nov 10 21:56:00 also if the flash is separate you can just desolder it and read it directly. Nov 10 21:56:01 probably, although they may not be drawn off the die Nov 10 21:56:11 is there like a desktop manager for this phone, how do i import VPN certificates? Nov 10 21:56:34 so if you're equipped to do fine microsugery on the electronics, then yes, possession gives you everything. Nov 10 21:56:38 my old LG phone had solder pads for jtag headers. Nov 10 21:56:47 that's pretty unusual Nov 10 21:56:50 yea pretty much Nov 10 21:56:51 esp for smartphones Nov 10 21:56:57 oh yeah, I need to find some headphones with a 2ft cable Nov 10 21:56:59 it was a dumbphone Nov 10 21:57:02 * pfn looks for a good source Nov 10 21:57:38 only two feet? wuh Nov 10 21:58:08 short cable is shooort Nov 10 21:58:19 err Nov 10 21:58:19 shrt Nov 10 21:58:24 :) Nov 10 21:59:04 ctate, to use with my bluetooth headset thingy Nov 10 21:59:16 aha Nov 10 21:59:40 so i take it that there is no desktop manager for this thing/ Nov 10 21:59:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA :) Nov 10 21:59:58 http://www.jabra.com/Sites/Jabra/NA-US/Headsets/Pages/JabraBT3030.aspx Nov 10 22:00:01 ^^ I bought 3 of those Nov 10 22:00:30 the headphones that come with it are worthless Nov 10 22:04:04 has anybody confirmed if Droid is using a binary protocol or at for phone functions yet? Nov 10 22:04:18 tmzt, where are you from Nov 10 22:04:49 i have no the foggiest idea what the Droid's ril is like Nov 10 22:04:57 or how CDMA handles this stuff or anything Nov 10 22:05:06 pfn: is the mic crisp on those? Nov 10 22:05:32 denon, I haven't had a chance to try out voice performance with it yet Nov 10 22:05:40 denon, supposedly it works well, minus the fact that it has next to no dsp Nov 10 22:05:50 so don't bother using it if it's a windy/noisy area Nov 10 22:05:57 primary use-case is a2dp/avrcp, imo Nov 10 22:06:08 denon, also, don't bother buying at msrp, $16 or bust! :) Nov 10 22:06:57 pfn: hrm, most important to me is that the mic sounds crisp/natural .. Nov 10 22:07:12 I prefer corded, really Nov 10 22:07:14 I hate batteries Nov 10 22:07:15 denon, reviews seem to claim that it works well for voice if you're not expecting dsp Nov 10 22:07:16 and chargers Nov 10 22:07:22 and anything that requires maintenance Nov 10 22:07:22 denon, it charges with mini-usb Nov 10 22:07:25 so it's pretty standard Nov 10 22:07:29 yeah .. still though Nov 10 22:07:33 and range is good Nov 10 22:07:35 another thing that will stop working when it dies Nov 10 22:07:38 I prefer a cord really.. Nov 10 22:07:41 denon, that's why I bought 3 Nov 10 22:07:46 hah Nov 10 22:07:48 I bought 3 of them less than the price of one at retail Nov 10 22:07:53 for traveling, I'd need to stay slim Nov 10 22:07:55 where'd ya get em? Nov 10 22:08:05 dinodirect.com, but their website seems to have gone to shit now Nov 10 22:08:12 I think ebay prices have dropped on them Nov 10 22:08:23 when I ordered from dinodirect initially, it was selling on ebay for like $50 Nov 10 22:08:27 now prices are down to like $15 or so Nov 10 22:08:40 biggest pain was that it shipped from singapore, so it took like 3 weeks to get here Nov 10 22:08:41 knockoffs? Nov 10 22:08:44 (but it was free shipping) Nov 10 22:08:51 no, asian market version Nov 10 22:08:57 knockoffs :) Nov 10 22:09:13 denon, I don't think so, documentation appears to be all in order and no chingrish Nov 10 22:09:30 so they have a scanner.. :) Nov 10 22:09:34 and it's branded gn/netcom Nov 10 22:09:38 but yeah, could be legit .. I just dont trust em Nov 10 22:09:48 gn/netcom is the parent company of jabra Nov 10 22:09:59 you've seen those articles talkin about the knockoff cisco catalyst switches? Nov 10 22:10:04 apparently they're almost identical, even inside .. Nov 10 22:10:08 no, I haven't, heh Nov 10 22:10:11 just slightly different airflow and stuff Nov 10 22:10:15 amazing knockoffs Nov 10 22:10:17 well, I imagine they really "fell off the truck" in china Nov 10 22:10:22 but they all have the same serial number heh Nov 10 22:10:24 I bought some knockoff nintendo ds shells Nov 10 22:10:26 nope, ghost plants Nov 10 22:10:32 running at night with a different staff Nov 10 22:10:40 or plans get heisted and reproduced or whatever Nov 10 22:10:46 considering that it's made in china Nov 10 22:10:55 I imagine the plant just resells any excess they might make Nov 10 22:10:59 but yeah, I dig gn netcom stuff Nov 10 22:11:15 well, it's funny .. they're not identical .. not like the line just keeps running Nov 10 22:11:25 but apparently in some cases they actually reproduce the whole plant somewhere else Nov 10 22:11:33 since cisco or whoever is onsite keeping an eye on things Nov 10 22:11:35 Hey All. Maybe this isnt the right place but.. anyone know where I can buy an unlocked droid or G2 for cheap? Nov 10 22:11:42 I would imagine that the plant would just run 1.2 million units in the case of a 1million unit order (for qa purposes) and just sell the remainder that passes qa anyway Nov 10 22:11:45 imo Nov 10 22:11:46 anyway, I'm sure I'll get smacked for OT if I don't hush .. Nov 10 22:11:53 denon, that's interesting though Nov 10 22:11:55 just interesting stuff these days Nov 10 22:12:03 but yeah, knockoff or not, these seem to work pretty well Nov 10 22:12:14 one reviewer suggested that the airflow and cable management in the knockoffs was actually better than the cisco Nov 10 22:12:15 if I can figure out how to post pictures from my droid without mms, I'll post some pictures up Nov 10 22:12:16 but I have my doubts Nov 10 22:12:28 pfn: theres' no picasa upload? Nov 10 22:12:28 email :) Nov 10 22:12:36 twitter etc Nov 10 22:12:36 * ctate thought that was built in Nov 10 22:12:43 I dunno, I don't have a picasa account Nov 10 22:12:49 it's a google account Nov 10 22:12:58 pfn: if you have a borg account, you've got a picasa one Nov 10 22:13:04 er, no offense ctate :) Nov 10 22:13:05 heh Nov 10 22:13:15 denon: no worries. you will be assimilated. Nov 10 22:13:22 yeah, I have my droid .. Nov 10 22:13:25 you know where I live Nov 10 22:13:37 ha Nov 10 22:13:37 until the battery dies >=] Nov 10 22:14:21 TommyB: ohio, why? Nov 10 22:15:04 ctate: yeah, I can guess that much :) logcat radio:v might be a start Nov 10 22:15:10 we should move this over to -root though Nov 10 22:15:25 tmzt, nvm, wanted to know if you were within range of the nyc dev event Nov 10 22:15:37 oh there ARE logs on these huh Nov 10 22:15:45 pfn: take a pic, hit menu, you can send picture via mms or gmail Nov 10 22:15:52 motorola tech support lied (not that i thought otherwise) Nov 10 22:15:59 haha Nov 10 22:16:06 spikebike: works with facebook too. Nov 10 22:16:07 spikebike, then I need to move from gmail to somewhere else, I want it streamlined Nov 10 22:16:07 lov you coming? Nov 10 22:16:09 they probably didn't know either Nov 10 22:16:15 TommyB: to dev day on monday? yeah Nov 10 22:16:20 TommyB: when is it? Nov 10 22:16:21 crackbook Nov 10 22:16:27 picasa upload would probably be ideal Nov 10 22:16:27 tmzt, 16th Nov 10 22:16:28 lov: that uninformed are they? :/ Nov 10 22:16:38 10am-5pm Nov 10 22:16:43 their usual user needs to be told not to shove the telephone up their nose. Nov 10 22:16:47 this month? don't think I can do that unless it starts by break Nov 10 22:16:51 getting them to use adb? Nov 10 22:16:54 seriously? Nov 10 22:16:57 hm good point. Nov 10 22:17:00 nov 16th, yeah Nov 10 22:17:00 you may as well tell them to take a bath with a toaster. Nov 10 22:17:12 can i use adb without rooting my phone? Nov 10 22:17:20 (new to android here... sorry) Nov 10 22:17:23 lov I'm gonna be trolling your dev session hard Nov 10 22:17:32 abortretryfail, yes Nov 10 22:17:42 TommyB: USB cable? Nov 10 22:17:47 adb is a standard tool in the sdk Nov 10 22:17:57 yes, usb cable, install the drivers Nov 10 22:17:57 cool, i've got the sdk on my laptop Nov 10 22:18:02 i downloaded it to play around with the emulator Nov 10 22:18:06 Linux? Nov 10 22:18:09 TommyB: you don't really know who I am so w/e :> Nov 10 22:18:12 drivers? Nov 10 22:18:14 lol Nov 10 22:18:24 lov I know your full name Nov 10 22:18:31 i'll check if there's any drivers, but i didnt see any in the repository. Nov 10 22:18:33 and where you're from and who you work for Nov 10 22:18:38 pfn: ever used one of these? http://www.jabra.com/Sites/Jabra/na-us/Headsets/Pages/JabraJX20.aspx Nov 10 22:18:40 AbortRetryFail: you don't need drivers for linux Nov 10 22:18:53 lov: ok that makes sense. Nov 10 22:19:03 It showed up as a USB mass storage device when i plugged it in Nov 10 22:19:07 or osx Nov 10 22:19:11 yeah, you need to use adb to get logs off of it Nov 10 22:19:22 adb kill-server; sudo adb start-server; adb logcat Nov 10 22:19:25 i suppose tehy're packed in some binary format database Nov 10 22:19:32 abortretryfail, open terminal at the tools folder of sdk and run adb devices Nov 10 22:19:45 if you mean adb, everything is open source but yeah they come as binaries. Nov 10 22:20:07 i meant how things are stored on the phone. Nov 10 22:20:36 actually nvm it looked like a somewhat normal unix fs when i looked in AndExplorer Nov 10 22:20:58 denon, no, I used like a motorola h700, h400 and like a plantronics discover 900 or something a long time ago Nov 10 22:20:58 hey guys Nov 10 22:21:01 oh, yeah Nov 10 22:21:03 anyone got a behold 2 yet? Nov 10 22:21:05 it's ext on the phone iirc Nov 10 22:21:11 er actually no nvm Nov 10 22:21:12 Thanks, I'll check out adb laster :) Nov 10 22:21:19 denon, the motorola were all garbage... so I just decided I want to listen to music, since I don't spend that much time on the phone Nov 10 22:21:20 when adb works, use adb shell then df Nov 10 22:21:20 pfn: yeah, currently have a cabled and a plantronics Nov 10 22:21:22 that says what the fs is. Nov 10 22:21:23 later Nov 10 22:21:34 pfn: I dont care much about music, though heh Nov 10 22:21:34 ext wouldnt make sense Nov 10 22:21:41 JFFS2 would be a more logical choice Nov 10 22:21:58 argh, s/df/mount/ Nov 10 22:22:05 pfn: jawbone seems like an interesting design, but I cant imagine how the mic would ever sound crisp Nov 10 22:22:05 anyway, it's yaffs2 Nov 10 22:22:07 yea i gotcha :) Nov 10 22:22:07 now that I checked Nov 10 22:22:20 once im at a shell im sure i can figure things out. Nov 10 22:22:26 New to android, not linux. :) Nov 10 22:22:38 pfn: problem is, every time I talk to someone who's on a BT headset, I absolutely hate the sound .. I'm kind of an audio nut Nov 10 22:23:02 I've had people complain they can't hear me when im on my Plantronics Explorer 390 Nov 10 22:23:55 but i'll be damned if i crash or break my phone trying to drive a stick shift and talk at the same time. Nov 10 22:24:10 denon, yeah, the jawbone prime or whatever is the only one that really piques my interest Nov 10 22:25:12 I always thought jawbone's headsets are ugly. Nov 10 22:25:34 pfn: tempting to just streap my normal headset onto the phone .. Nov 10 22:25:45 great noise cancel/etc .. sure, a little bulky, but sounds great :) Nov 10 22:25:49 er strap Nov 10 22:25:50 lol Nov 10 22:26:18 get one of the big heavy duty metal straps off the headsets air traffic controllers use and mount the phone on it. Nov 10 22:26:26 there ya go Nov 10 22:26:32 or the ones they use at sports events Nov 10 22:26:38 those are so silly Nov 10 22:26:50 but I bet you could make a call on a 777 with the window open :) Nov 10 22:26:54 i wonder if they do that just so motorola can advertise their huge logo on the side. Nov 10 22:27:00 (assuming you don't get sucked through the window and die...) Nov 10 22:27:19 denon: i probably should try that. I've got a rotary engine and a loud exhaust. Nov 10 22:27:25 nah - the NFL is insanely high profile, I bet it's the best moto has to offer Nov 10 22:27:31 :) Nov 10 22:27:44 and I bet it's freakin loud down there, probably need all the isolation Nov 10 22:27:51 yeah Nov 10 22:27:57 with all of the screaming people... Nov 10 22:28:00 nod Nov 10 22:28:21 reminds me, I've gotta replace the "DROID!!" audio file with "Hello Moto.." Nov 10 22:28:51 Does it do that every time you boot it? Nov 10 22:29:00 yeah, and it's the notification sound Nov 10 22:29:09 I silence mine before shutdowns for that reason Nov 10 22:29:12 (changable of course) Nov 10 22:29:15 lol change it. Nov 10 22:29:16 yeah Nov 10 22:29:32 "Hello, Moto..." Nov 10 22:29:44 My sister named her cat Moto after that slogan Nov 10 22:29:53 hah Nov 10 22:30:13 gotta call vzw and order wifey's droid Nov 10 22:30:27 been lazy, trying to figure out the best deal and order some other phones and a plan change at the same time Nov 10 22:30:40 trying to decide if I wanna stick with GV for SMS and save the plan Nov 10 22:30:42 * denon shrugs Nov 10 22:30:58 May as well. Nov 10 22:31:08 I only cared about sms when i had a phone without e-mail Nov 10 22:31:08 is GV's SMS client a pain to use? Nov 10 22:31:19 denon: lemme check. Nov 10 22:31:20 yeah - but everyone else does SMS, that's the only reason I care .. Nov 10 22:31:30 obviously no need to do SMS to people with a clue Nov 10 22:31:33 denon: no Nov 10 22:31:43 zinx: no as in not easy to use? Nov 10 22:31:58 was hoping you can send it right from the context, threaded sms, etc .. Nov 10 22:32:01 via GV Nov 10 22:32:07 denon: it's easy to use if you have it forward SMSs anyway.. but it will cost $$$ if your carrier charges for SMSs Nov 10 22:32:18 denon, the official google voice app does what you want Nov 10 22:32:20 you just compose using the Google Voice app instead of the SMS one Nov 10 22:32:24 (not to be confused with "GV") Nov 10 22:32:41 the only problem i've found is that it doesn't always push sms to your phone via the app in a timely manner Nov 10 22:32:44 i don't know if you can receive them via the Google Voice app/etc Nov 10 22:32:45 regardless of your sync settings Nov 10 22:32:58 so i have it send sms to gmail so that i get the notification and know to open the google voice app on my phone Nov 10 22:32:58 (never tried) Nov 10 22:33:02 well, I'd rather avoid carrier SMS all together Nov 10 22:33:04 zinx, you can Nov 10 22:33:07 fudd: i do that too Nov 10 22:33:09 it just doesn't push them in a timely manner Nov 10 22:33:17 * pfn tries to figure out how to create a new album in picasa Nov 10 22:33:20 ah, so you cant really have a conversation with sms? Nov 10 22:33:24 denon, you can Nov 10 22:33:25 but no one sends me SMSs, and i don't send them ;) Nov 10 22:33:28 (in goog voice) Nov 10 22:33:28 it works just like the normal sms app Nov 10 22:33:31 well . in semi relatime Nov 10 22:33:35 realtime Nov 10 22:33:37 Is there any way to configure what notifications show up as what color on the LED? Nov 10 22:33:37 what i'm saying is Nov 10 22:33:41 if you don't have the app open on your phone Nov 10 22:33:46 you won't get the new sms right away Nov 10 22:33:48 ahh Nov 10 22:33:48 I noticed gmail/sms/etc are green, but meebo shows up purple Nov 10 22:33:51 which is why i have it forward to my gmail Nov 10 22:33:55 then i get the notification of the sms on gmail Nov 10 22:33:59 and open the google voice app Nov 10 22:34:02 at which point it downloads the sms Nov 10 22:34:04 (even over wifi) Nov 10 22:34:13 that's actually what i use gvoice for... i don't have a cell signal at my workplace Nov 10 22:34:20 so i do all my sms over gvoice Nov 10 22:34:21 hehe Nov 10 22:34:23 denon: the messaging app asks you whether to send the SMS with google voice or not. Nov 10 22:34:26 w/ wifi Nov 10 22:34:26 fudd: so once you have it open (ie: after you've used it once), you get notifications instantly? Nov 10 22:34:30 so you use the normal SMS app Nov 10 22:34:33 denon, while it's open, yes Nov 10 22:34:37 AbortRetryFail, no Nov 10 22:34:44 but the google voice app is very similar Nov 10 22:34:45 fudd: can it just start on boot? or you mean the screen has to be open Nov 10 22:34:53 denon, it has to actually be open, actively Nov 10 22:34:59 oh, lame Nov 10 22:34:59 hence the use of gmail for the notifications Nov 10 22:35:04 just an extra step really Nov 10 22:35:06 minor annoyance Nov 10 22:35:08 but it works well otherwise Nov 10 22:35:13 yeah .. but at that point I might as well spend a couple bucks more Nov 10 22:35:21 if you want to Nov 10 22:35:23 i think it works well Nov 10 22:35:26 since I'll have some sms additions on phones that dont have data plans Nov 10 22:35:29 but again, we have different motivations for using it Nov 10 22:35:32 could get blanket, or could get some one-offs Nov 10 22:35:34 i need it because i can't get normal sms while at work Nov 10 22:35:42 i only have wifi connectivity all day Nov 10 22:35:53 yeah, I'd just want it so wifey can get sms from friends and whoever Nov 10 22:36:24 GV is pretty cool, but Im wondering if it's really worth the effort in some cases Nov 10 22:36:24 ok, hometime, peace Nov 10 22:36:31 losing callerid for the freebies, etc Nov 10 22:36:46 nice for some outbound I guess Nov 10 22:36:55 droid's GV integration is sweet there Nov 10 22:37:09 Oh ok nvm Nov 10 22:37:09 i tried sending from the contacts lis. Nov 10 22:37:09 t Nov 10 22:37:09 gimme a break, i just got this phone last friday :) Nov 10 22:37:28 AbortRetryFail: I was lazy, ordered it friday to get it saturday :) Nov 10 22:37:34 man, that was a pain Nov 10 22:37:34 I didnt feel like dealing with a line Nov 10 22:37:50 there wasn't any line Nov 10 22:38:01 sounded like there was at the store I was going to Nov 10 22:38:23 ah well, location location location. Nov 10 22:38:29 there's no real line for getting the droid Nov 10 22:38:31 I went to the store in a somewhat podunk part of town. Nov 10 22:38:35 the vzw stores were busy, but not *packed* Nov 10 22:38:42 vzw's marketing was pretty shitty, imo Nov 10 22:38:45 and they're not really in a shortage or anything. Nov 10 22:38:45 they got the droid name out Nov 10 22:38:46 Hi, does anyone know any way to get paid apps on the adp? ive been wanting to buy open home but i cant get it on the market :( Nov 10 22:38:49 but most consumers had no idea what it was Nov 10 22:38:53 lol Nov 10 22:39:08 http://picasaweb.google.com/pfnguyen/Misc#5402604193895688402 Nov 10 22:39:13 pfn: there were some lines .. Nov 10 22:39:15 camera on the droid needs focus help badly Nov 10 22:39:19 but yeah, not everywhere Nov 10 22:39:20 it was hype Nov 10 22:39:29 denon, there was maybe 1 person ahead of me when I went to buy it at 11am on friday Nov 10 22:39:30 pfn: supposedly it's already fixed, 2 firmware vers ago .. just not deployed out Nov 10 22:39:41 pfn: mine seems to have a better time with video than with stills. Nov 10 22:39:49 denon: wtf? Nov 10 22:39:54 not deployed... Nov 10 22:40:09 damnit, I can't get nbusers to unsubscribe from my gmail account Nov 10 22:40:11 well, I'm saying it's fixed in svn or whatever .. Nov 10 22:40:16 betas .. whatever they want to call it Nov 10 22:40:16 oh ok Nov 10 22:40:18 AbortRetryFail, video sounds awesome Nov 10 22:40:20 but not pushed out Nov 10 22:40:25 but still camera is suck ass in focusing Nov 10 22:40:36 pfn: Im trying to tell you, it's fixed! :) Nov 10 22:40:37 Yeah it is pretty bad. Nov 10 22:40:44 It's lousy in low-light without the flash too. Nov 10 22:40:50 denon, yeah, they need to hurry up and deploy it Nov 10 22:40:54 dec. 11 Nov 10 22:40:54 agreed Nov 10 22:40:55 it sounds like Nov 10 22:40:56 write your congressman Nov 10 22:41:02 it's slated for dec 11 Nov 10 22:41:14 I can deal with issues a week after launch. Nov 10 22:41:20 I bought this knowing there'd be issues. :) Nov 10 22:41:32 Normally i don't early-adopt but i really like this phone Nov 10 22:41:38 ditto Nov 10 22:41:45 nod Nov 10 22:41:47 first time I've bought a phone on day 1 Nov 10 22:41:54 I think that was everyone's thought Nov 10 22:42:12 this was the nobel prize of phones, "sucks now, but maybe it'll get better" Nov 10 22:42:14 Also i've had good luck with motorola phones. Nov 10 22:42:29 AbortRetryFail, yeah, mot makes good phones, disregarding what *everyone* says Nov 10 22:42:33 even the razr, which everyone else seems to hate. Nov 10 22:42:41 I've always had good experiences with my razr, v60c, v8655, etc. Nov 10 22:42:43 it made calls pretty well and could take a beating. Nov 10 22:42:51 my razr lasted for a good 5 years Nov 10 22:42:58 my friend has an old one from years ago and it's bene through hell and high water Nov 10 22:43:08 well, my razr is finally dead, pretty much Nov 10 22:43:12 it's been barely working in the last year Nov 10 22:43:24 I installed the alltel firmware over the vzw firmware Nov 10 22:43:40 it was working over evdo at first, then I went to vzw to switch phones, and decided I didn't like it and switched back to the razr Nov 10 22:43:43 lost evdo at that point Nov 10 22:43:43 take it apart and clean it. It's amazing how much crud a phone will collect after a few years of being carried around Nov 10 22:43:55 then a couple months ago, I tried to "fix" it, and I ended up killing 1xrtt, too Nov 10 22:43:58 did any of you droid users try playing back 720p video? or any resolution higher than the phone's native resolution, for that matter? Nov 10 22:44:01 lol Nov 10 22:44:05 and my razr absolutely stinks Nov 10 22:44:11 keny_: not yet. Nov 10 22:44:17 It smells horribly of accumulated sweat Nov 10 22:44:27 keny_, 720p is barely above the phone's resolution Nov 10 22:44:29 pfn: my palm TX got like that. pretty gross... :( Nov 10 22:44:29 or not Nov 10 22:44:37 the phone is higher than 720p, I thought Nov 10 22:44:39 ehhh 720p is way above the phone's native res Nov 10 22:44:44 er, oops Nov 10 22:44:44 720p is 720 lines Nov 10 22:44:46 its x480 Nov 10 22:44:48 I was thinking 720x480 Nov 10 22:44:50 yea Nov 10 22:44:55 Droid's screen is 854x480 Nov 10 22:44:56 yeah, 720p is 1280x720 Nov 10 22:45:05 it'd be really nice to see a divx player on these things Nov 10 22:45:05 which is 16:9 but not 720p Nov 10 22:45:10 denon, ditto Nov 10 22:45:19 ctate, understood, brief confusion on my part Nov 10 22:45:29 for some reason I just confused 720p thinking 720 columns for a second Nov 10 22:45:31 pfn: supposedly it's underway, official from divx Nov 10 22:45:37 the omap3430 is pretty powerful though ... should be able to handle it, just wonder if the android player supports that (or android in general) Nov 10 22:45:49 pfn: though I'm guessing it wont be free, and likely won't have the cpu horsepower to downscale decent sized stuff anyway .. who knows Nov 10 22:45:50 \\o Nov 10 22:45:51 keny_, don't see why not Nov 10 22:46:13 i think the dream doesnt handle anything beyond its native resolution Nov 10 22:46:21 Cortex A8@550mhz? Nov 10 22:46:24 denon, unless it's like >1080p it shouldn't have too much of a problem downscaling Nov 10 22:46:26 made me wonder if that had been improved Nov 10 22:46:33 pfn: think so? cool .. Nov 10 22:46:37 doubt it could decode and downscale 720p Nov 10 22:46:40 pfn: now, about that HDMI jack... Nov 10 22:46:46 unless it's got some GPU assistance Nov 10 22:46:54 AbortRetryFail, well, it has some sort of powervr gpu... Nov 10 22:47:01 which I assume should be assisting in the process Nov 10 22:47:17 yeah any decent GPU should be able to scale it down. Nov 10 22:47:21 i was wondering if it was possible to intercept the voice data to and from a phone call if the user initiates the call from an application. For example, they launch the program, choose a voice mask setting, and make a call within the program, and the porgram would have access to masking their voice Nov 10 22:47:21 that's what they're for :) Nov 10 22:47:44 madman91: might want to try in the -dev channel Nov 10 22:47:44 well, cortex a8 + POWERVR SGX is quite a bit Nov 10 22:47:47 so mates.. wtf's our favorite free sux and tux and android version of evernote? Nov 10 22:47:54 i think the n900 which has got the same hardware plays back 720p Nov 10 22:48:01 AbortRetryFail: ah, thanks Nov 10 22:48:03 * tech9iner clarifies sux = microsux.. Nov 10 22:48:12 what's evernote? Nov 10 22:48:30 glad you clarified, I assumed sux meant linsux ;) Nov 10 22:48:52 and tux was bsd :) Nov 10 22:49:34 is there any way to view all headers in gmail? Nov 10 22:49:43 trying to figure which email address I'm subscribed to this mailing list with Nov 10 22:49:48 pfn: i hope so. I haven't found one though... Nov 10 22:49:49 pfn: in the browser. .. Nov 10 22:49:56 dunno about the droid client though Nov 10 22:50:10 I noticed you can't add new labels in the android client for gmail :/ Nov 10 22:50:42 denon, can't find it in the browser Nov 10 22:50:47 show details doesn't show all the headers Nov 10 22:50:54 plaintext Nov 10 22:50:56 pfn: down arrow in the top right Nov 10 22:50:57 might be labs Nov 10 22:50:58 "Show Original" Nov 10 22:51:02 ohhhh that Nov 10 22:51:02 yeah Nov 10 22:51:06 lol.. tsk tsk and shame on your denon ;]] Nov 10 22:51:08 denon, ah, thanks Nov 10 22:51:18 np Nov 10 22:51:55 AbortRetryFail: pasadena and gardena first transit Nov 10 22:51:59 pfn: I cant understand why they dont just have an ajax show/hide headers .. but whatever Nov 10 22:52:05 lmao @ me me.. Nov 10 22:52:07 hmm, does it always automagically log you in with your gmail login? Nov 10 22:52:08 I guess people don't need headers like they used to Nov 10 22:52:16 AbortRetryFail: http://www.evernote.com/about/home.php even Nov 10 22:52:18 lol Nov 10 22:52:34 denon, for the most part no, I only look at them occasionally for spam headers to see why my spam filter fails Nov 10 22:52:37 * tech9iner glares at his mutineering digits.. Nov 10 22:53:12 pfn: used to be we'd ask endusers for full headers pretty often .. mail routing questions, spam stuff, etc Nov 10 22:53:14 times change Nov 10 22:53:30 denon: i ask my internal users all the time Nov 10 22:53:35 they have no idea what im talking about. Nov 10 22:53:48 why would you ask this info? except in tracking down spams/virii? Nov 10 22:53:50 how many chaps here have droid yet?.. don't tell me location... i shall return to me youth's thievery Nov 10 22:54:06 The address : Nov 10 22:54:06 pfnguyen@gmail.com Nov 10 22:54:06 is not currently subscribed to any top-level mailing lists on Nov 10 22:54:07 netbeans.org. Nov 10 22:54:16 damnit, why do I keep getting nbusers email?! Nov 10 22:54:30 lol Nov 10 22:54:34 not aliased elsewhere? Nov 10 22:54:38 tech9iner: i've got one. It's sweet. Nov 10 22:54:43 denon, not that I know of Nov 10 22:54:57 AbortRetryFail: you do realize wtf this means aye laddie? Nov 10 22:54:58 pfn: subscribed with a mailbox name? pfnguyen-foo@gmail.com Nov 10 22:55:09 AbortRetryFail: you sucketh hugely ;]] Nov 10 22:55:17 denon, hmm, maybe that's possible Nov 10 22:55:17 Why's that? Nov 10 22:55:19 AbortRetryFail: ever had the g1? Nov 10 22:55:22 denon, -? Nov 10 22:55:28 tech9iner: Yes, my friend has one. It rocks Nov 10 22:55:32 It's why i wanted this phone. Nov 10 22:55:40 AbortRetryFail: obviously due fact you have droid an i dont?.. lol Nov 10 22:55:42 pfn: dunno if gmail can, some servers/services let you put a mbox name in .. user-box@foo.com Nov 10 22:56:03 denon, that's usually +, I think Nov 10 22:56:06 AbortRetryFail: bet your chum wants to upgrade his g1 huh.. Nov 10 22:56:07 since - is a valid email address still Nov 10 22:56:08 yeah, + Nov 10 22:56:10 pfn: can be dash Nov 10 22:56:16 He hasn't played with it yet. Nov 10 22:56:20 I've got servers that do dash :) Nov 10 22:56:22 AbortRetryFail: i imagine droid unit's cpu whips mates g1 to dust Nov 10 22:56:26 denon, it'd be strange to do -, though Nov 10 22:56:28 but yeah, either way .. just saying, is it an mbox name Nov 10 22:56:30 This is quite a bit faster than the G1 was though. Nov 10 22:56:51 AbortRetryFail: gotta be snappy.. and your camera too.. Nov 10 22:57:06 tech9iner: the camera sucks, but that appears to be a software issue. Nov 10 22:57:34 AbortRetryFail, how do you stand on the keyboard? Nov 10 22:57:43 I also kind of liked the G1 keyboard better since it has a row for numbers. Nov 10 22:57:47 coming from never having had a hard keyboard, I like the hard keyboard Nov 10 22:57:59 yeah, thats all i am hearing, that the dream's keyboard was better Nov 10 22:58:02 AbortRetryFail: dont forget that double-alt locks the alt on Nov 10 22:58:03 keny_: it's several orders of magnitude better than any onscreen keyboard could ever wish to be. Nov 10 22:58:14 and imo, the soft keyboard is better than the iphone's (or at least my ipod touch first gen on 1.0 software) Nov 10 22:58:16 AbortRetryFail, thats satisfying to hear :) Nov 10 22:58:17 (for numbers) Nov 10 22:58:27 denon: I'm aware. Try typing a bunch of IP addresses with te Droid's keyboard and you'll see why i wish it had a row of numbers. Nov 10 22:58:39 AbortRetryFail: yeah, I wish . was . in alt and non Nov 10 22:58:43 well i guess just because of the screen size its gotta be much better than on the dream (the virtual keyboard) Nov 10 22:58:51 AbortRetryFail: BUT numeric boxes will do it without alt, and then you can easily do IPs Nov 10 22:58:59 keny_: no, it's not. Nov 10 22:58:59 AbortRetryFail: no numbers?.. shite.. i never noted that.. wait.. methinks i read beefs bout that in articles tho.. kinda slipped me video brain it did Nov 10 22:59:04 AbortRetryFail: numeric with dots or whatever the mask allows Nov 10 22:59:06 Widescreen. Nov 10 22:59:09 AbortRetryFail, really? why that? Nov 10 22:59:23 AbortRetryFail: was in an app the other day that let me type an IP really easily due to the app's field mask or whatever Nov 10 22:59:36 the onscreen keyboard in portrait is very narrow in physical size Nov 10 22:59:46 and in landscape, it takes up almost the whole screen. Nov 10 22:59:49 jhcrikey.. omfg.. cable guy is beaten to death w hammer by customer he was there to install too.. Nov 10 22:59:55 screw onscreen keyboards. Nov 10 22:59:57 AbortRetryFail, isnt it wider in portrait than the g1? Nov 10 23:00:00 victorville ca.. Nov 10 23:00:02 i SSH from my phone. hardware all the way. Nov 10 23:00:12 AbortRetryFail: which ssh app you prefer? Nov 10 23:00:18 keny: not by much if any. I haven't gotten them side-by-side yet Nov 10 23:00:32 denon: I've only used connectbot, it suits my purposes, so i havent tried others. Nov 10 23:00:48 so why is that I can use 'android terminal emulator' to get a local shell Nov 10 23:00:51 wow, i thought they were. I can tell a big difference between the iphone's screen and the G1's because of that Nov 10 23:00:53 but if I use connectbot local, it won't? Nov 10 23:00:59 AbortRetryFail: it felt a little weird for some reason, dont remember why .. kinda flakey on me though Nov 10 23:01:04 AbortRetryFail: wondered if there was somethin better Nov 10 23:01:22 connectbot works solid Nov 10 23:01:33 no idea lol Nov 10 23:01:37 my only gripe is that it won't prompt me to enter my privkey password prior to trying to connecting Nov 10 23:01:45 even though it's set to "load on start" Nov 10 23:01:48 keny: yes.. droid screen is larger than g1.. this is trumpeted as one of is key features.. Nov 10 23:02:03 iirc even tad bit larger than iphones Nov 10 23:02:08 so I tap a shortcut for my host, and it takes me to password-auth prompt, then I have to disconnect and go into manage keys before trying again Nov 10 23:02:16 pfn: yeah i noticed that too. It makes shortcuts mostly useless. Nov 10 23:02:18 tech9iner, droid screen is 3.7", iphone is 3.5" Nov 10 23:02:22 i know its 3.7, so i thought there would be a big difference when you hold it in portraid mode Nov 10 23:02:23 AbortRetryFail, only for the first connect Nov 10 23:02:37 keny, it's 16:9 vs 16:10, though Nov 10 23:02:37 pfn: diagonal sizes are useless without aspect ratios :) Nov 10 23:02:46 alright! Nov 10 23:02:49 :) Nov 10 23:03:00 keny, so the droid's screen is longer and thinner than the iphone's Nov 10 23:03:16 larger overall, longer on one dimension and narrow on the other Nov 10 23:03:25 than iphone, gna iphone Nov 10 23:03:28 bla iphone Nov 10 23:03:33 its actually narrower? wow that comes as a surprise Nov 10 23:03:56 keny, comes with the territory of going 16:9 while only barely increasing diagonal size Nov 10 23:04:00 iphone is closed, iphone sucks, iphone burns your face, and on iphone the battery is not changeable Nov 10 23:04:10 iDoes burn you Nov 10 23:04:16 and the iphone is the only one constructor, without android OS Nov 10 23:04:24 iDoes lock my battery up Nov 10 23:04:27 haha Nov 10 23:04:28 iDoes lock my OS up Nov 10 23:04:31 idon't ! Nov 10 23:04:34 haha Nov 10 23:04:41 iDoes have a glowing apple logo Nov 10 23:04:42 the droid is roughly 1/4" wider in (16) and about 1/4" narrower in (9) Nov 10 23:04:47 it clears the key from memory on shutdowns right? Nov 10 23:04:47 I havent tried. Nov 10 23:04:47 I do need to find a rubber plug to put in the USB and headphone jacks on this thing... Nov 10 23:04:47 the G1 came with one built in for it's USB jack. Nov 10 23:04:47 Also, on the Droid you have to pull the battery out to get to the MicroSD slot. :/ Nov 10 23:04:48 iDoes line steve jobs's pockets Nov 10 23:04:59 iPhone, but not too well Nov 10 23:05:11 * denon snickers Nov 10 23:05:11 AbortRetryFail, fortunately, don't need to access the sd card very often Nov 10 23:05:12 denon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYM-XTqcec Nov 10 23:05:13 :) Nov 10 23:05:30 pfn: true, especially since the phone can mount it as a USB mass storage :) Nov 10 23:05:56 lamusic: eh, old news :) Nov 10 23:05:59 wow i was lagging bad.... Nov 10 23:06:07 yes i know haha Nov 10 23:06:14 but is very funny Nov 10 23:06:41 nod Nov 10 23:06:44 when i read this the first time, i laught much haha Nov 10 23:07:10 nod ? Nov 10 23:07:17 nod .. it's funny Nov 10 23:07:24 * denon is nodding his head in agreement Nov 10 23:07:52 oh ok Nov 10 23:07:59 (my english is poor sorry) Nov 10 23:08:41 bbl, goin home Nov 10 23:12:49 no behold 2 users? Nov 10 23:13:15 do you have a question that can only be answered by a Behold 2 user? Nov 10 23:13:50 nah, i want someone with one to give me a copy of thier system partition :) Nov 10 23:14:04 or to tell me the CSC version so i can grab the firmware from samsung directly Nov 10 23:14:07 it's been dumped and is probably on the xda-developers forums Nov 10 23:14:15 it has? Nov 10 23:14:18 but that's really a question for #android-root Nov 10 23:14:30 well, assuming you get it not from Samsung :P Nov 10 23:14:31 cool thanks, i'll search :) Nov 10 23:14:47 AbortRetryFail, you said something earlier about IT organizations being micro managed Nov 10 23:14:53 its the same hw as the galaxy, but has the new cube interface :_ Nov 10 23:14:53 my root program for the Sprint Hero works on the Samsung Behold 2 Nov 10 23:15:10 cool! Nov 10 23:15:14 so i'd be surprised if there are no dumps yet Nov 10 23:15:17 so sprint hero is finally rooted? Nov 10 23:15:22 yeah Nov 10 23:15:26 so behold is security locked for sure? Nov 10 23:15:36 huh? Nov 10 23:15:43 the galaxy isnt Nov 10 23:15:55 'security locked'? Nov 10 23:15:57 so is anybody here having problems with activesync? Nov 10 23:16:07 (companies not letting them use it on their network) Nov 10 23:16:32 i thought that most android phones were locked so u could only flash recovery images etc that are signed corectly Nov 10 23:16:38 ah, yes Nov 10 23:16:41 all the new ones are Nov 10 23:16:48 the old ones were supposed to be Nov 10 23:16:51 but the galaxy isnt, we can flash any recovery we want Nov 10 23:16:52 except for the ADP1 Nov 10 23:17:09 * litui sings a tale of woe about not being able to buy things from the android market yet. Nov 10 23:18:02 i dont agree with my company disallowing me, an IT person, the permissions to put the phone on their network so i can get email. Nov 10 23:18:14 they say if you cant remotely wipe it, it's not allowed. Nov 10 23:18:33 (another reason I want root!) Nov 10 23:18:38 there's an app for that Nov 10 23:18:47 only if you have root, right? Nov 10 23:18:50 which phone? Nov 10 23:18:53 droid Nov 10 23:19:00 ah gfl Nov 10 23:19:07 bmusson_: yeah that blows. Nov 10 23:19:26 i doubt the program to wipe works without root Nov 10 23:19:35 im sure it doesnt Nov 10 23:20:03 you can lock the screen Nov 10 23:20:10 then they have to wipe or they can't use it :E Nov 10 23:20:28 but you cant have the phone wipe itself after 20 tries or whatever. Nov 10 23:20:38 because there is no root Nov 10 23:20:45 yes Nov 10 23:20:57 but your grandma doesn't need root, so the carriers don't supply it Nov 10 23:21:06 or at least that's one of the many absurd excuses i've heard :P Nov 10 23:21:13 and she wouldnt be the one getting a DROID anyways. Nov 10 23:22:09 i dont understand why i cant recompile 2.0 and set the root password and flash it back onto my phone. Nov 10 23:22:18 whay? Nov 10 23:22:26 heh, well it's be missing quite a bit (like apps) Nov 10 23:22:26 bmusson_: 1) 2.0 is closed source Nov 10 23:22:33 you can't flash non signed images, at least we don't know how to yet Nov 10 23:22:35 bmusson_: 2) there is no root password Nov 10 23:22:37 and the act of flashing checks a signature first Nov 10 23:22:49 damn Nov 10 23:22:52 bmusson_: 3) carriers disallow flashing because they are clueless Nov 10 23:23:04 is there a way to downgrade the software on the phone? Nov 10 23:23:06 unless you are really good at soldering/desoldering surface mounts Nov 10 23:23:15 to a open source android version? Nov 10 23:23:19 bmusson_: there is no older software for the droid Nov 10 23:23:22 I was hoping the n900's openness (you can flash) would trigger the competition to be more open Nov 10 23:23:24 bmusson_: join #android-root and #openezx sometime Nov 10 23:23:24 i see. Nov 10 23:23:37 bmusson_: and you can't flash anything that the carrier hasn't signed Nov 10 23:23:58 dang Nov 10 23:24:04 im starting to not like this phone Nov 10 23:24:17 i might have to go back to bb Nov 10 23:24:29 be sure to tell Verizon why Nov 10 23:24:38 being able to get mail is a very required part of me job. Nov 10 23:25:54 anyways Nov 10 23:25:59 tty all later Nov 10 23:26:33 ugh... I wouldn't go to blackberry after using android. Nov 10 23:26:42 nasty. Nov 10 23:26:43 =) Nov 10 23:27:25 why do you need 'root' in order to get mail? Nov 10 23:27:32 so i have an emulator running... how can i connect to a webapp running on my actually local computer? Nov 10 23:27:45 pfn: company policy, he explained that :D Nov 10 23:27:51 redir and adb seem to be used for redirecting INCOMING traffic Nov 10 23:27:52 so why would getting root help? Nov 10 23:28:00 but i want to allow the device to see a local app Nov 10 23:28:02 pfn: because he could set it up to remote wipe then. Nov 10 23:28:04 on port 300 Nov 10 23:28:22 why can't remote wipe be setup without root? Nov 10 23:28:42 * pfn confused Nov 10 23:28:42 pfn: the phone doesn't allow the permissions required to be granted to non-signed applications (and maybe not even signed for that) Nov 10 23:28:45 did anyone suggest free microsux linux android Evernote alternatives lads? Nov 10 23:29:03 zinx, I figured that there should be permissions to manage user-data/email-data Nov 10 23:29:32 tech9iner, there appears to be an android evernote... Nov 10 23:29:35 pfn: not for the exchange stuff that needs wiped Nov 10 23:29:45 pfn: indeed.. Nov 10 23:29:48 zinx, is that so... that's too bad Nov 10 23:29:55 been there dont that already pfn ;]] Nov 10 23:30:07 ugh.. dont*done Nov 10 23:30:41 lol.. Freudian slip as it were.. 'been there DONT that' relates to marriage .. not tech.. hehe Nov 10 23:49:22 hey guys Nov 10 23:49:29 are there any apps similar to BB's sound profiles? Nov 10 23:49:35 i havent found anything yet Nov 10 23:54:26 my 2.0 emulator keeps default to japanese locale Nov 10 23:54:31 and i try to change it Nov 10 23:54:33 with no luck Nov 10 23:54:43 anyone know how i can change it? Nov 10 23:54:44 have you started humming "I think I'm turning japanese" Nov 10 23:54:50 i tried that too Nov 10 23:54:50 Armin7: in landscape mode? Nov 10 23:55:00 zinx: no portrat Nov 10 23:55:10 zinx: what key do you press to rotate the emu btw? Nov 10 23:55:14 Armin7: download the source and fix it... oh wait, right you can't. Nov 10 23:55:19 lov: ctrl-f11 or something i think Nov 10 23:55:42 so no solutions? Nov 10 23:56:01 Armin7: complain to Motorola or Google or whoever it is that has the only copy of the source at this point :P Nov 10 23:56:07 hehe Nov 10 23:56:20 i need to get some screen shots of a specific app =/ Nov 10 23:56:24 from 2.0 Nov 10 23:56:26 damn it Nov 10 23:56:48 still no kernel source either? Nov 10 23:59:50 tmzt: i've heard a goog say that the omap git in the public repo is the source for the Droid Nov 10 23:59:59 tmzt: unsure on the emulator source, but i would imagine it's available too Nov 11 00:00:04 (for the kernel) Nov 11 00:00:10 but the kernel doesn't control locale, the framework does Nov 11 00:00:22 the framework is most definitely closed source Nov 11 00:00:24 lol.. lov 'turning jap....' fastone.. lol Nov 11 00:00:39 emulator is probably still goldfish anyway Nov 11 00:00:46 tmzt: it is Nov 11 00:00:56 but it needs 2.6.29 Nov 11 00:00:58 zinx: ah, okay. though that was omap2 but that makes sense Nov 11 00:01:02 although, i guess donut used that too Nov 11 00:01:04 so we should be ok there Nov 11 00:01:21 tmzt: there is a android-omap-2.6.29-eclair branch in the kernel/omap.git Nov 11 00:01:22 funny, because qemu already has omap3 support :) Nov 11 00:01:28 thanks Nov 11 00:01:40 I'll stop complaining now Nov 11 00:01:48 HTC is the one who doesn't release kernel source Nov 11 00:02:00 Qualcomm does a lot on codeaurora Nov 11 00:02:15 this isn't an HTC or qualcomm device Nov 11 00:02:15 Motorola i guess just uses google's git, i have no idea really Nov 11 00:08:50 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4919820#post4919820 Nov 11 00:09:12 BTW does anyone have the link to the g1 video encoding page? to see which codes size, and etc is allowed? Nov 11 00:12:03 I am on a system with java6 installed, I am trying to build android but it complains that I should be using java5 Nov 11 00:12:08 whats the most straightforward way? Nov 11 00:12:17 install java 5. :P Nov 11 00:12:31 I tried downloading java5, and i have pointed ANDROID_JAVA_HOME to the jdk install Nov 11 00:12:38 anyone? Nov 11 00:12:56 the jdk1.5 install, that is Nov 11 00:13:14 but its still trying to use the other java binary Nov 11 00:13:25 TannerS: nope Nov 11 00:13:49 hmmmm Nov 11 00:15:06 http://developer.android.com/reference/android/os/PowerManager.html#goToSleep(long) Nov 11 00:15:13 looks like a 1/2 line program Nov 11 00:15:54 Typo on http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/security/security.html - "These permissions it requests can be handled by the operating in various ways", I assume "operating system" was meant Nov 11 00:18:07 ugh, is there any way to make the android email app stop notifying on new read email? Nov 11 00:18:11 e.g. I read my email at my desk Nov 11 00:19:00 * r0bby waves to pfn Nov 11 00:19:09 punkass: damned human beans.. Nov 11 00:19:14 ;] Nov 11 00:19:32 hello r0bby Nov 11 00:19:36 tech9iner: you mean "beings" Nov 11 00:19:41 which phone do you have? :) Nov 11 00:19:46 << Motorola Droid Nov 11 00:20:45 i figure irc is better than the alternatives, google is pretty hard to contact Nov 11 00:21:10 i normally just ignore google typos but i figure someone from google might be looking Nov 11 00:21:12 punkass: yeh, you get the benefits of users who know android :) Nov 11 00:21:17 as a workaround I made it happy by prepending the 1.5 install path on my PATH :P I hope that makes the whole build process happy Nov 11 00:21:31 r0bby, I picked up the droid and droid eris on friday Nov 11 00:21:38 why *BOTH*? Nov 11 00:22:02 ah looks like cbeust is one Nov 11 00:22:03 I look at the droid eris and while it was nice.. i still was set on the droid :) Nov 11 00:22:06 so n one knows the specs for converting vidoes for the g1? Nov 11 00:22:07 Is SDL up and running on Android? Nov 11 00:22:21 cbeust: i found a typo on android.com, details are a few lines up Nov 11 00:22:23 Plagman_: that's a pretty warped question Nov 11 00:22:35 I need to write a better irc client for the droid -- every one falls short of what i want :( Nov 11 00:22:39 r0bby, one for my wife Nov 11 00:22:46 which one did you give the wife? Nov 11 00:22:52 take a wild guess Nov 11 00:23:05 droid Nov 11 00:23:07 the droid eris :) Nov 11 00:23:16 spikebike: he'd be a fool to give her the droid :) Nov 11 00:23:23 the thing is a beast Nov 11 00:23:35 r0bby: he's a fool for buying the eris, so it's consistent. Nov 11 00:23:38 also, can Android on the Droid access its graphics hardware to its full extents? Nov 11 00:23:47 or is it limited to OpenGL ES 1.0? Nov 11 00:24:23 spikebike, the eris is a great phone for $100 Nov 11 00:24:26 spikebike: this can't go anywhere good :) Nov 11 00:24:30 especially if you don't need the extra heft or size Nov 11 00:24:52 the only thing the eris lacks is 1) smaller screen 2) crappy slide out keyboard Nov 11 00:24:53 if you bag on the eris at $100 then everyone that buys a hero at $180 is an utter moron Nov 11 00:25:08 as of this week... yes Nov 11 00:25:15 especially since the droid is $150 Nov 11 00:25:20 (only thing i dislike about the droid -- that and wifi makes google talk bounce off and on) Nov 11 00:25:24 spikebike: $199. Nov 11 00:25:29 (after rebate) Nov 11 00:25:32 r0bby: a couple places sell it for $150 Nov 11 00:25:41 get it from verizon it's $199 Nov 11 00:25:46 r0bby: "wifi makes google talk bounce off and on" -- can you clarify this a little? Nov 11 00:25:55 ctate: sure Nov 11 00:26:30 I haven't quite been able to dig into it but when i have wifi enabled i had reports of google talk bouncing me on and offline from the phone Nov 11 00:26:45 reports from the other side? Nov 11 00:26:50 http://searswireless.com/specialoffer.aspx?cid=35480_dfe78ccf8e644b8fab50b4a3a2dcf280 Nov 11 00:27:02 somebody else was saying it was bouncing me offline Nov 11 00:27:17 er on/off Nov 11 00:27:25 interesting, thanks Nov 11 00:27:53 I don't know if it has to do w/ the data/wifi battling it out Nov 11 00:28:17 * pfn just turns off wifi Nov 11 00:28:27 i do too Nov 11 00:28:28 $150 from sears, nice price Nov 11 00:28:31 to presrve battery Nov 11 00:28:42 preserve* Nov 11 00:28:48 they aren't he only one Nov 11 00:28:58 how do I make a comment on a market app? Nov 11 00:29:05 I'm interested in naming a android client for notify.io, but I want the phone to sleep efficiently -- what's the best way of achieving push notifications? Nov 11 00:29:15 sleeping on a tcp connection? or piggybacking on gtalk? Nov 11 00:29:48 oh, need to rate then review Nov 11 00:35:54 rndmcnlly: afaict piggybacking on gtalk is attractive, but very tough Nov 11 00:36:32 but leaving a tcp connection open works, requires you to be running all the time Nov 11 00:36:34 spikebike: do you know of anything written about it for me to follow up on? beyond just reading about gtalk related intents and stuff Nov 11 00:36:49 (so a memory/cpu/battery overhead) Nov 11 00:37:28 I use Sipdroid (which sleeps on a connection) without much wasted battery Nov 11 00:37:32 rndmcnlly: google's mention the plan to add gtalk hooks back in, but at least as of 1.6 it seems like most of the pieces are missing, they were pulled in 0.9 or so Nov 11 00:37:35 and I think they take the sleeping on a connection approach Nov 11 00:37:42 yeah sleeping on a connection works Nov 11 00:37:53 but of course sipdroid has to be running Nov 11 00:38:35 evening Nov 11 00:39:45 well, the "running" part could be minimal service which doesn't too much work beyond launch a beefier activity when a message comes in Nov 11 00:40:29 separately, has Anyone here played with Ethereal Dialpad or Iteration (my generative art apps) Nov 11 00:40:32 ? Nov 11 00:46:46 rndmcnlly: look at http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2009/01/push-services-implementing-persistent.html Nov 11 00:48:02 Leeds: heh, i was actually looking at the code that they linked to in that article just now Nov 11 00:49:18 Leeds: teehee. Nov 11 00:49:25 i wrote that Nov 11 00:49:42 alrighty Nov 11 00:49:46 Any open android projects to be worked on ? Nov 11 00:49:48 :D Nov 11 00:50:18 my apps would be open if I got past my laziness in not checking them into source control Nov 11 00:50:26 I have one and only one copy of my source... Nov 11 00:52:01 what is your Project? Nov 11 00:52:04 ^_^ Nov 11 00:52:30 Iteration is a visual generative art app and Ethereal Dialpad is an expressive touch-based music synthesizer Nov 11 00:53:28 sounds complicated Nov 11 00:53:38 great project though Nov 11 00:53:51 I tried adding Flurry analytics to an app for one update and I was surprised by the number of people who refused to install something that required network access and location info at the same time Nov 11 00:54:12 rndmcnlly, hg, git, incredibly easy to setup and use Nov 11 00:54:16 rndmcnlly, no excuse not to use them Nov 11 00:54:28 hg = hg init; hg add; hg commit -m 'commit' Nov 11 00:54:33 git is practically identical Nov 11 00:55:19 there's no excuse not to use version control, especially when git and hg are so easy to use to setup initially Nov 11 00:55:34 I know git, but not checking in my code, somehow, at a psychological level, helps me relate to the project as a play activity Nov 11 00:55:39 instead of something I would do as work Nov 11 00:56:16 a terrible excuse, of course Nov 11 00:57:18 do it as a cron job then Nov 11 00:57:27 just periodically git commit and then you can just ignore it Nov 11 00:57:34 heh Nov 11 00:58:25 if, through a terrible accident, all of my code were lost, it would be an excellent motivation to start a new android project Nov 11 00:58:47 in that case, time to rm -rf / Nov 11 00:59:32 or conveniently forget the passphrase to the key I use for signing the market version of apps... Nov 11 01:21:30 jasta: I know :) Nov 11 01:33:49 hello all Nov 11 01:34:19 is there a good video player for Android 2.0 that is free? Nov 11 01:47:29 vzw telling me their loyalty plan was "discontinued" Nov 11 01:47:34 yeah, I'll bet Nov 11 01:50:30 what loyalty plan? NE2? Nov 11 01:50:37 NE2 sucks more every year Nov 11 01:50:44 it used to be like $200, then $100, and now $50 Nov 11 01:51:54 hmm, I want some philips she9550 as beater earphones, but can't really get them for cheaper than $20, to use with the droid Nov 11 01:52:06 Andril: look in the Android Market app and search, pay attention to reviews Nov 11 01:52:24 meridian does video, I think Nov 11 01:52:39 http://androinica.com/2009/08/31/50-best-android-apps-lifestyle-and-productivity-apps-1-15/ Nov 11 01:52:44 * pfn downloaded most of those apps that looked useful Nov 11 01:53:00 I guess I'll just buy those earphones from frys or something Nov 11 01:56:32 pfn: nah, loyalty plan was/is a plan where you get like 500 minutes for like $50 or something Nov 11 01:56:37 I dont remember the price, it's cheap and low minutes Nov 11 01:56:45 oh Nov 11 01:56:54 my plan is a family share plan with 500 mins for $50 Nov 11 01:56:54 heh Nov 11 01:57:05 plus 2 lines at $10/line on top of that Nov 11 01:57:17 and now +2 lines at $30/line for data, and $5 on a texting plan Nov 11 01:57:29 ugh, nickel and dimed, I feel Nov 11 01:57:35 yes, Im feeling that way too Nov 11 01:57:48 but from people in the know, the loyalty plan is a decent deal Nov 11 01:59:59 pfn: just tried the online sales reps Nov 11 02:00:05 eh .. not so helpful Nov 11 02:00:22 pfn: just privmsg'd you a funny interaction Nov 11 02:00:41 heh Nov 11 02:00:56 ohh show me! Nov 11 02:00:57 I don't see why they're so hesistant to offer up the cheaper plan Nov 11 02:01:10 is it as bad as trying to cancel an AOL subscription? Nov 11 02:01:10 r0bby: he just claimed there were no unadvertised plans .. Nov 11 02:01:11 :) Nov 11 02:01:17 * pfn continues searching for short cords Nov 11 02:01:25 denon, easiest thing is just to lie and ask for a corporate discount Nov 11 02:01:41 I don't remember that vzw actually ever verified that I worked for who I said I worked for at the time Nov 11 02:01:44 pfn: these are business phones, but on a personal plan Nov 11 02:01:53 pfn: they now ask for employee badge and/or paystub Nov 11 02:02:01 do they, that's a pity Nov 11 02:02:12 which I'll have in a month for like 15% or something Nov 11 02:02:16 * pfn makes a note never to cancel his plan, lest he lose his discount Nov 11 02:02:18 but I still want a cheaper plan Nov 11 02:02:24 I'll use like no minutes Nov 11 02:02:32 yeah, I hate that the most basic plan is 700 mins Nov 11 02:02:35 I don't talk that much Nov 11 02:02:36 ever Nov 11 02:02:39 what's the point of all the minutes just for "free" sms/mms/etc Nov 11 02:02:47 well, even if I talk a lot .. GV++ Nov 11 02:02:51 for outbound anyway Nov 11 02:02:56 and inbound usually comes from our pbx Nov 11 02:03:00 as nobody calls me directly Nov 11 02:03:04 anyway.. Nov 11 02:03:20 I'll likely get 1400 so I dont have to worry about people SMS'ing out of their bounds and stupid stuff like that Nov 11 02:03:23 well, calls still cost airtime regardless if it's through gv or your pbx, isn't it? Nov 11 02:03:28 +$30 for peace of mind Nov 11 02:03:43 pfn: nah, friends n family numbers for your pbx or gv or whatever :) Nov 11 02:03:45 I thought it's like $20 for unlimited text Nov 11 02:03:49 as long as you arent changing the CID Nov 11 02:03:55 pfn: for all phones on the plan? Nov 11 02:03:55 denon, I heard can't F&F gv's # Nov 11 02:04:05 really? ug. Nov 11 02:04:05 oh, it's $30 for all lines? Nov 11 02:04:15 yeah, from 700 to 1400 minutes Nov 11 02:04:15 denon, hearsay, so I don't know Nov 11 02:04:16 +$30 Nov 11 02:04:22 pfn: that'd be a recent change Nov 11 02:04:36 either way, I could cobble it through pbx, no big deal Nov 11 02:04:40 $30 for all lines for unlimited text? that's a not so bad if you have >2 lines Nov 11 02:04:50 pfn: and that gets you the extra 700 min Nov 11 02:04:51 denon, yeah, ditto, I have asterisk running at home, and colocated Nov 11 02:05:08 pfn: yeah, I recognize you from #asterisk :) Nov 11 02:05:15 among other places methinks, but I cant remember where Nov 11 02:05:19 #dvd maybe Nov 11 02:05:22 pfsense perhaps Nov 11 02:05:24 nah Nov 11 02:05:49 I see we have #xml in common, but all I ever do is lurk there Nov 11 02:05:53 #sexylocalsingles ??? Nov 11 02:05:55 maybe? Nov 11 02:06:09 pfn: hah, yeah, me too .. for like 5 years Nov 11 02:06:11 yeah, all I ever do is lurk in asterisk, too Nov 11 02:06:23 oh, I might be wrong on that $30 .. might need to go to Select Nov 11 02:06:26 my only recent activity was figuring out how to get my silent vm patch integrated Nov 11 02:06:27 nickel and dime. Nov 11 02:06:35 s/silent/empty Nov 11 02:07:03 pfn: sucks, too -- I wanna get a couple new phones .. and they have "free" phones that come with em .. but not the phones I want of course Nov 11 02:07:54 hi guys, I am trying to attach my dev phone in Debian but seems is imposible to me, someone can help me? Nov 11 02:08:15 https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=2264 Nov 11 02:08:21 my most recent contribution to asterisk in years Nov 11 02:08:22 heh Nov 11 02:09:11 I don't undersstand how anyone using asterisk could stand getting empty voicemails all the time Nov 11 02:09:12 fbesoain: attach to what? Nov 11 02:10:03 * pfn go home & Nov 11 02:11:46 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Phoronix/~3/Spfoc_DSKkw/vr.php Nov 11 02:11:56 interesting, guess it's not X only Nov 11 02:17:19 hi leeds, I am trying to Setting up a Device for Development Nov 11 02:17:51 so, I have followed the steps from the web site , but seems is not workint at all for me Nov 11 02:18:53 what site, what device? Nov 11 02:19:21 htc g1, from http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/device.html. tmzt Nov 11 02:23:11 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheBoyGeniusReport/~3/Y5hF0Rx8Yps/ Nov 11 02:23:15 missed this Nov 11 02:23:19 mrs company Nov 11 02:33:37 anyone know where i can see all the android market apps online? Nov 11 02:34:03 my girlfriend has the droid with her at work and i want to browse the apps Nov 11 02:35:09 RUok0101, try cyrket.com Nov 11 02:35:38 i found that via some googling but its just a empty white page when i load it in firefox Nov 11 02:36:01 RUok0101, yes, I just checked, seems like it has a problem at the moment Nov 11 02:36:28 i dont understand why google wouldnt open up the whole market on the website Nov 11 02:36:31 to help promote apps Nov 11 02:37:02 http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/10/communication-driven-economy.html Nov 11 02:37:16 is there a way to buy apps from somewhere other than the phone (like itunes for iphone apps)? Nov 11 02:37:19 cyrket is dead, at lesat temporarily Nov 11 02:37:25 www.androlib.com has a decent amount of them Nov 11 02:37:57 RUok0101: you can only buy from the android market onboard on the phone... there are two or three other markets out there - fully above-board, no jailbreaking involved, etc. - which might let you buy on the PC Nov 11 02:38:05 there's also stuff like handmark, which is a little different Nov 11 02:38:23 whatever you guys do with gizmo, please fix the press 1 to answer call on some numbers and make it in-band :) Nov 11 02:38:30 so standard clients work **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 11 02:59:56 2009