**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 30 02:59:57 2008
May 30 03:44:22 <j0wn> thats odd
May 30 03:44:49 <j0wn> Hi Cordump
May 30 03:44:54 <j0wn> ( if your awake )
May 30 06:43:07 <ffc> Hello there
May 30 06:43:43 <ffc> I'm having some trouble to get hx4700 running with the last compilations of Angstrom
May 30 06:43:57 <ffc> It freezes at boot time
May 30 06:44:08 <ffc> any help, please?
May 30 06:45:34 <johnx> booting from SD? if you get rid of or rename /etc/init.d/psplash it will at least show you boot messages
May 30 06:45:48 <johnx> but off to work now...good luck!
May 30 07:36:22 <ffc> thanks!
May 30 07:44:19 <ffc> johnx: It gives me the following error -> "Kernel Panic - not syncing: devinet: Failed to create loopback"
May 30 12:14:11 <udovdh> hello...
May 30 12:14:16 <udovdh> any ideas about this? http://rafb.net/p/V5hWYk58.html
May 30 12:14:34 <udovdh> dunno if it is for handhelds/openembedded or angstrom
May 30 13:30:42 <udovdh> argh!
May 30 13:31:01 <udovdh> why build another compiler for the uclibc compile of the ramdisk image?
May 30 14:04:07 <kantlivelong> hey all
May 30 14:04:10 <kantlivelong> anyone here?
May 30 14:04:12 <kantlivelong> CoreDump: ?
May 30 14:04:27 <CoreDump> hey
May 30 14:04:40 <kantlivelong> heya CoreDump
May 30 14:04:44 <kantlivelong> im having a problem
May 30 14:04:54 <kantlivelong> i know it didnt exist in my SL-5600
May 30 14:05:09 <kantlivelong> for some reason i cant set a WEP key w/ hostap
May 30 14:05:18 <kantlivelong> its telling me operation not supported
May 30 14:05:36 <CoreDump> driver?
May 30 14:05:40 <kantlivelong> hostap
May 30 14:05:59 <CoreDump> that should work
May 30 14:06:14 <CoreDump> does dmesg complain about missing modules?
May 30 14:06:39 <kantlivelong> moment
May 30 14:08:37 <kantlivelong> could not initilize wep
May 30 14:08:48 <kantlivelong> load module hostap_crypt_wep
May 30 14:08:51 <kantlivelong> juist need that?
May 30 14:09:15 <CoreDump> indeed
May 30 14:09:35 <CoreDump> but IIRC the module name has changed
May 30 14:10:08 <kantlivelong> byeah
May 30 14:10:09 <kantlivelong> yeah
May 30 14:10:12 <kantlivelong> says not found
May 30 14:10:13 <kantlivelong> :|
May 30 14:10:18 <kantlivelong> bug :(
May 30 14:10:27 <kantlivelong> what module should it be?
May 30 14:13:32 <kantlivelong> ah
May 30 14:13:43 <kantlivelong> ieee80211_crypt_wep
May 30 14:14:57 <kantlivelong> erm
May 30 14:14:58 <kantlivelong> ok
May 30 14:15:01 <kantlivelong> still not working
May 30 14:15:01 <kantlivelong> wtf
May 30 14:15:35 <kantlivelong> this build is bugged up
May 30 14:15:36 <kantlivelong> :(
May 30 14:18:44 <kantlivelong> CoreDump: >
May 30 14:19:43 <CoreDump> it is just missing modules I believe
May 30 14:19:57 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 14:20:03 <kantlivelong> how can i fix it
May 30 14:20:04 <kantlivelong> ?
May 30 14:20:20 <kantlivelong> just an ipkg?
May 30 14:21:09 <kantlivelong> all of ieee80211 is there
May 30 14:22:08 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 14:22:10 <kantlivelong> so is hostap
May 30 14:29:39 <j0wn> Hi all
May 30 14:30:19 <kantlivelong> lo
May 30 14:31:03 <j0wn> anyone have problems building console-image with this error ( native-svn ) : http://pastebin.com/m15f73b36
May 30 14:31:51 <kantlivelong> dunno
May 30 14:32:47 <kantlivelong> erm on spitz theres the / and ? key
May 30 14:32:51 <kantlivelong> has 3 things on it
May 30 14:33:10 <kantlivelong> i can only get ,< and /
May 30 14:33:15 <kantlivelong> but single quote?
May 30 14:34:31 <kantlivelong> or even double quote?
May 30 14:54:01 <udovdh> got the flite binaries from the angstrom repo; any idea how to get audio from the ipaq via flite?
May 30 14:54:14 <udovdh> flite tries to open the card in mono (8KHz I assume)
May 30 14:54:29 <udovdh> card of the h2210 wants stereo?
May 30 15:02:26 <kantlivelong> :|
May 30 15:03:57 <kantlivelong> blah
May 30 15:04:01 <kantlivelong> bugged
May 30 15:06:06 <kantlivelong> theres gotta be some sort of bugfix
May 30 15:07:32 <CoreDump> maybe the kernel is bugged in regards to WEP
May 30 15:08:00 <kantlivelong> it must be
May 30 15:08:05 <kantlivelong> it wants an old module
May 30 15:08:11 <kantlivelong> :(
May 30 15:08:23 <kantlivelong> this is on the http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/releases/2007.12/images/spitz/old/
May 30 15:08:24 <CoreDump> no, the error message is wrong (and has been for some time)
May 30 15:08:28 <kantlivelong> ah
May 30 15:08:37 <kantlivelong> well i have all the proper stuff loaded
May 30 15:08:50 <CoreDump> note the wrong suffix
May 30 15:08:57 <kantlivelong> yeh
May 30 15:09:06 <CoreDump> you are obviously still missing something ;)
May 30 15:09:13 <kantlivelong> i dont know what tho
May 30 15:09:16 <kantlivelong> hostap is loaded
May 30 15:09:49 <CoreDump> *crypt* as well?
May 30 15:09:55 <kantlivelong> yep
May 30 15:10:41 <CoreDump> check dmesg after trying to set the key again
May 30 15:11:06 <kantlivelong> moment
May 30 15:12:38 <kantlivelong> could not allocate crypto API arc4
May 30 15:12:50 <kantlivelong> from ieee80211_crypt_wep
May 30 15:12:56 <kantlivelong> :(
May 30 15:12:56 <CoreDump> there is your answer
May 30 15:13:01 <CoreDump> install the arc4 module
May 30 15:13:06 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 15:13:23 <CoreDump> and slap the silly bastard who removed these modules from the images
May 30 15:13:52 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 15:13:54 <kantlivelong> it is
May 30 15:14:01 <kantlivelong> kernel-module-arc4
May 30 15:14:05 <kantlivelong> installed
May 30 15:14:10 <kantlivelong> do i need to modprobe it?
May 30 15:14:29 <kantlivelong> did a modprobe arc4
May 30 15:14:30 <kantlivelong> still
May 30 15:15:00 <kantlivelong> :|
May 30 15:15:26 <CoreDump> you still get "could not allocate crypto API arc4"?
May 30 15:15:51 <kantlivelong> yep
May 30 15:16:00 <kantlivelong> its loaded too
May 30 15:16:05 <kantlivelong> no diff errors now
May 30 15:16:09 <CoreDump> well, beats me
May 30 15:16:13 <kantlivelong> :|
May 30 15:16:24 <kantlivelong> blasted
May 30 15:16:34 <kantlivelong> why the heck is this on 2.6.24 anyways
May 30 15:16:35 <kantlivelong> lol
May 30 15:16:57 <CoreDump> try 2.6.23
May 30 15:17:12 <kantlivelong> how do i downgrade?
May 30 15:17:30 <CoreDump> ideally you find an image with said kernel
May 30 15:17:34 <kantlivelong> ah
May 30 15:17:43 * CoreDump -> food
May 30 15:17:43 <kantlivelong> no simple way eh?
May 30 15:17:46 <CoreDump> bbl
May 30 15:17:49 <CoreDump> no
May 30 15:17:58 <johnx> usually I get the modules.tar.gz first and unpack it, then flash down to the older kernel
May 30 15:18:10 <kantlivelong> heh
May 30 15:18:28 <johnx> just remember *modules first* and everything should go well :)
May 30 15:18:40 <kantlivelong> yeh
May 30 15:18:49 <kantlivelong> i just dun know where to obtain this stuff
May 30 15:19:23 <johnx> something like angstrom-distribution.org/downloads/unstable/autobuild ?
May 30 15:20:18 <kantlivelong> which is the spitz?
May 30 15:20:25 <kantlivelong> armv5t or te?
May 30 15:20:27 <kantlivelong> or teb?
May 30 15:20:43 <johnx> armv5te
May 30 15:20:50 <johnx> but the kernel is device specific
May 30 15:21:05 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 15:21:05 <johnx> might be the wrong link, let me open a web browser
May 30 15:21:44 <kantlivelong> heh
May 30 15:22:16 <kantlivelong> whats the old branch for?
May 30 15:22:22 <kantlivelong> http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/releases/2007.12/images/spitz/
May 30 15:22:29 <johnx> stable releases
May 30 15:22:32 <kantlivelong> ah
May 30 15:22:39 <kantlivelong> what kernel is that?
May 30 15:22:41 <kantlivelong> 2.4?
May 30 15:22:52 <johnx> 2.6
May 30 15:22:55 <kantlivelong> oh
May 30 15:23:01 <johnx> wait, are you on an unstable release already?
May 30 15:23:15 <kantlivelong> im using the one in the spitz dir
May 30 15:23:25 <kantlivelong> there a dir that says old
May 30 15:23:27 <johnx> 2007.12 or unstable/autobuild?
May 30 15:23:33 <kantlivelong> 2007.12
May 30 15:23:50 <kantlivelong> Angstrom-x11-image-glibc-ipk-2007.12-r13-spitz-installkit.tgz
May 30 15:24:54 <johnx> ok, if you really think it's a kernel version thing there is a spitz 2.6.23 in here: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/autobuild/spitz/
May 30 15:25:19 <johnx> get the latest .23 and the modules-2.6.23-spitz.tgz to go with it
May 30 15:26:04 <kantlivelong> how do i go about installing it? (like ive said i had a SL-5600 in the past but yeah)
May 30 15:26:38 <johnx> untar the modules.tgz first in the / of your device as root
May 30 15:26:56 <kantlivelong> ok
May 30 15:27:03 <johnx> then put updater.sh and your chosen zImage on an sd or cf card *alone* and flash
May 30 15:27:11 <kantlivelong> ight
May 30 15:27:14 <kantlivelong> moment
May 30 15:27:14 <johnx> no initrd.bin or rootfs
May 30 15:27:34 <johnx> also, make sure you have a backup before following directions from someone one IRC
May 30 15:27:52 <johnx> (though I think this method is safe, I make no guarantees, etc, etc)
May 30 15:27:56 <kantlivelong> ah its fine :) 
May 30 15:28:03 <kantlivelong> if my install craps i dun care
May 30 15:28:28 <kantlivelong> i plan on flashing it many times
May 30 15:28:28 <kantlivelong> lol
May 30 15:28:30 <johnx> just making sure :)
May 30 15:32:36 <kantlivelong> im just used to openzaurus
May 30 15:32:41 <kantlivelong> angstrom is a little diff
May 30 15:32:50 <kantlivelong> just a little :)
May 30 15:33:01 <kantlivelong> booting
May 30 15:34:32 <kantlivelong> yep
May 30 15:34:37 <kantlivelong> 2.6.24 = bugged
May 30 15:37:19 <kantlivelong> hmm still wont connect tho
May 30 15:37:27 <kantlivelong> could set the key however
May 30 15:38:41 <kantlivelong> there we go
May 30 15:38:42 <kantlivelong> :)
May 30 15:39:01 <kantlivelong> comes up as eth0 but whatever
May 30 15:40:11 <udovdh> I also have a networking question:
May 30 15:40:12 <udovdh> http://rafb.net/p/prCgv456.html
May 30 15:40:20 <udovdh> hwo to get the interface up?
May 30 15:40:36 <kantlivelong> whats ifconfig show u?
May 30 15:41:11 <udovdh> hmmm... serial console is out of order
May 30 15:41:14 <udovdh> hold on...
May 30 15:42:33 <udovdh> lo
May 30 15:42:49 <udovdh> I used the howto at http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HpIpaqH2200ssh btw
May 30 15:43:16 <udovdh> lo is up and pretty fast
May 30 15:43:25 <udovdh> but it doesn't getme very far
May 30 15:43:31 <kantlivelong> lo is local
May 30 15:43:32 <kantlivelong> :P
May 30 15:43:35 <udovdh> i know
May 30 15:43:36 <kantlivelong> nothing else?
May 30 15:43:40 <udovdh> nothing else
May 30 15:43:48 <kantlivelong> what wireless card?
May 30 15:43:49 <udovdh> see the paste url for startup messages
May 30 15:43:53 <udovdh> no wireless
May 30 15:44:00 <udovdh> usb ethernet is waht I like to use
May 30 15:44:09 <udovdh> if that is possible with angstrom
May 30 15:44:12 <kantlivelong> oh
May 30 15:44:15 <udovdh> I set the usb port for networking
May 30 15:44:15 <kantlivelong> im not sure
May 30 15:44:23 <kantlivelong> oh
May 30 15:44:25 <kantlivelong> oh
May 30 15:44:36 <kantlivelong> youll need to setup ur computer to support it aswell
May 30 15:44:42 <kantlivelong> might only work for linux <-> linux
May 30 15:44:44 <udovdh> I know, see the howto url
May 30 15:44:54 <udovdh> linux all over the place here
May 30 15:45:23 <kantlivelong> :)
May 30 15:45:26 <kantlivelong> what distro
May 30 15:45:47 <udovdh> angstrom 2007.12
May 30 15:45:54 <kantlivelong> on the pc...
May 30 15:46:03 <udovdh> network setup (gpe-conf) shows usb0 knowledge
May 30 15:46:06 <udovdh> Fedora 9
May 30 15:46:08 <udovdh> sorry :-)
May 30 15:46:17 <udovdh> with custom kernel
May 30 15:46:52 <kantlivelong> hmmm
May 30 15:46:55 <kantlivelong> not sure then :P
May 30 15:47:01 <kantlivelong> just gonna have to follow ur guides
May 30 15:49:14 <kantlivelong> whats that widget for overclocking?
May 30 15:49:27 <udovdh> dunno
May 30 15:49:36 <udovdh> would like to know :-)
May 30 15:52:31 <udovdh> modprobe g_ether
May 30 15:52:33 <udovdh> gives me usb0
May 30 15:54:33 <udovdh> and I am in via ssh
May 30 15:57:14 <kantlivelong> hmmm
May 30 16:01:30 <kantlivelong> does angstrom kernel support OC?
May 30 16:08:04 <johnx> I think it might not
May 30 16:08:19 <johnx> see if it has cpufreq support in /sys
May 30 16:09:31 <kantlivelong> are there any other feeds?
May 30 16:10:23 <johnx> you mean non-official ones?
May 30 16:10:43 <kantlivelong> yeah]
May 30 16:10:48 <kantlivelong> w/ games and crap
May 30 16:11:04 <kantlivelong> aircrack
May 30 16:11:05 <kantlivelong> etc..
May 30 17:15:59 <proq> where does bitburner place the .ipk when it finishes building a package?
May 30 17:20:22 <johnx> bitbake?
May 30 17:20:30 <johnx> tmp/deploy/
May 30 17:20:38 <proq> right, bitbake
May 30 17:20:55 <proq> thanks
May 30 17:33:42 <udovdh> where could I find info on how to configure angstrom for sound on the h2200 with 2007.12 on it?
May 30 17:33:49 <udovdh> I need to run flite
May 30 17:33:56 <udovdh> the systems sounds work
May 30 17:34:01 <udovdh> but flitse assumes mono audio
May 30 17:34:07 <udovdh> and perhaps 8 KHzsound
May 30 17:34:18 <udovdh> s/flitse/flite/
May 30 17:40:43 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 17:43:31 <udovdh> ideas are welcome.
May 30 17:43:39 <udovdh> I assume /etc/asoundrc can be a solution
May 30 17:44:01 <udovdh> but perhaps flite can be configged somehow as well?
May 30 17:45:06 <kantlivelong> is there a way to enable overclocking for angstrom?
May 30 17:47:37 <proq> isn't overclocking usually done mostly on the hardware level?
May 30 17:48:26 <udovdh> on my h2200 there is cpufreq support
May 30 17:48:38 <udovdh> but I could not yet set the max freq over the 400 Mhz
May 30 17:48:46 <udovdh> as I could on win mobile 2003
May 30 17:48:56 <udovdh> maybe a kernel  patch can help
May 30 17:49:22 <kantlivelong> my cousin uses pdaXrom and can OC to 600mhz
May 30 17:49:25 <kantlivelong> for spitz
May 30 17:49:54 <udovdh> linux?
May 30 17:50:16 <udovdh> my other 2210 gets to 480 or so Mhz
May 30 17:50:25 <udovdh> (should have a look to know exact)
May 30 17:50:35 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 17:51:00 <udovdh> other 2210 is on windoze and uses this small utility to overclock
May 30 17:51:08 <udovdh> gotta go
May 30 18:00:51 <mimecar> hi
May 30 18:00:56 <kantlivelong> hola
May 30 18:01:12 <mimecar> hi kantlivelong
May 30 18:01:20 <kantlivelong> whats up
May 30 18:01:31 <mimecar> working now :)
May 30 18:01:37 <kantlivelong> same
May 30 18:01:43 <kantlivelong> playing w/ stupid veritas
May 30 18:02:43 <mimecar> some problem?
May 30 18:03:59 <kantlivelong> just stupid software
May 30 18:04:00 <kantlivelong> :)
May 30 18:04:14 <kantlivelong> a change of IP of a backed up machine = whole new backup
May 30 18:04:17 <kantlivelong> annoying
May 30 18:05:18 <mimecar> welcome to real world :)
May 30 18:05:40 <kantlivelong> yeah
May 30 18:05:40 <kantlivelong> heh
May 30 18:05:46 <kantlivelong> cant even delete old media
May 30 18:05:58 <kantlivelong> say a tape was destoyed
May 30 18:06:02 <kantlivelong> cant remove record of that tape
May 30 18:06:08 <kantlivelong> i go to restore
May 30 18:06:12 <kantlivelong> and it shows the bloody tape
May 30 18:06:15 <kantlivelong> PoS
May 30 18:07:35 <mimecar> that's the one backup?
May 30 18:07:41 <kantlivelong> no theres more
May 30 18:07:50 <kantlivelong> but if i throw away an old tape
May 30 18:07:54 <mimecar> you're lucky
May 30 18:07:54 <kantlivelong> i cant remove its god damn history
May 30 18:08:12 <kantlivelong> ive got a list of like 100 tapes
May 30 18:12:52 <mimecar> is cheaper use tapes?
May 30 18:14:02 <kantlivelong> were moving away from tapes
May 30 18:14:05 <kantlivelong> to a SAN
May 30 18:23:00 <mimecar> what's a SAN (i don't know)
May 30 18:26:47 <kantlivelong> wiki san :)
May 30 18:27:10 <A__A> Lindberg Fld S.Diego airport (code) - Science Association of Nigeria - Storage Area Network
May 30 18:33:11 <mimecar> ok
May 30 18:33:31 <mimecar> i can't read wikipedia and write with latex at the same time
May 30 18:35:28 <summatusmentis> lol, you're not trying hard enough
May 30 18:35:54 <mimecar> yeah, i must upgrade my brain
May 30 18:36:00 <mimecar> with windows leopard...
May 30 18:40:46 <summatusmentis> exactly
May 30 18:40:54 <A__A> I know this is "angstrom", which used to be Open Zaurus.  Is this a place to ask a simple question about the Zaurus?
May 30 18:40:55 <mimecar> summatusmentis: i can talk with you , when you want
May 30 18:41:09 <summatusmentis> mimecar: oh, I completely forgot about that :)
May 30 18:41:13 <mimecar> if it's more or less related...
May 30 18:41:29 <summatusmentis> assuming you're not asking about cacko or pdaxrom, you're probably fine
May 30 18:41:46 <summatusmentis> because you'll eventually be running angstrom :)
May 30 18:41:49 <mimecar> neither you're talking about windows mobile...
May 30 18:42:00 <summatusmentis> well, yeah, there's that too
May 30 18:43:06 <mimecar> be angstorm my friend
May 30 18:43:07 <mimecar> xDD
May 30 18:44:47 <A__A> summatusmentis, no, not cacko/pdaXrom.  I just got used a Zaurus SL-C3200 through ebay, hoping to use it as a replacement for my wonderful trusty but ageing Psion Revo.  However, the Zaurus' English-based OS, (by Fig Labs) is a bit... of a let down.  It's kind of OK as a PDA, but a step *backwards* in simplicity/bugginess/functionality from my now 10 year old Revo!
May 30 18:45:18 <A__A> - a used Zaurus -
May 30 18:45:31 <summatusmentis> A__A: not sure what OS that would be, just flash Agnstrom
May 30 18:45:38 <summatusmentis> s/flash/install
May 30 18:45:55 <mimecar> A__A: write short sentences, please
May 30 18:46:19 <A__A> OK.
May 30 18:47:50 <A__A> I want to confirm that the Sharp distro is as bad as on my used Zaurus.
May 30 18:48:15 <mimecar> sharp is not longer maintened, but all the stuff works
May 30 18:48:26 <mimecar> angstrom is maintened, but some things doesn't work actually
May 30 18:48:43 <summatusmentis> mimecar: it works if you're ok with everything that is factory installed
May 30 18:48:53 <mimecar> yes
May 30 18:49:08 <mimecar> mp3 player is the only thing i love of sharp rom
May 30 18:49:13 <summatusmentis> try to install any third party anything, good luck :-/
May 30 18:51:47 <A__A> The biggest annoyance on my Sharp distro is qkonsole, which has a glitch where the screen gets random "half characters" onto it that only go away if you full-screen/un full-screen it (or otherwise get qkonsole to redraw its screen).  It's really annoying.  Has anyone else had this?
May 30 18:52:22 <summatusmentis> NOBODY usese Sharp distro anymore
May 30 18:53:57 <mimecar> A__A: if you get a problem with sharp rom, you won't have updates
May 30 18:54:00 <mimecar> that's the problem
May 30 18:54:02 <A__A> Ok, ok, but did this happen to anyone with the Sharp distro?  That's after all the reason why there are other distros now -- the Sharp distro is very shoddy.
May 30 18:54:24 <mimecar> ask on #zaurus
May 30 18:54:30 <mimecar> it's posible somebody use sharp rom
May 30 18:56:06 <A__A> Does anyone remember getting fucked off with the Sharp distro enough to find something like Open Zaurus?
May 30 18:56:40 <mimecar> can you write a simpler sentence (my english knowledge is not big) please ;)
May 30 18:57:39 <A__A> mimecar - your Zaurus has angstrom now?
May 30 18:57:56 <mimecar> yes, i have a c1000 working with angstrom
May 30 18:58:14 <A__A> Before you flashed it had Sharp distro?
May 30 18:58:21 <mimecar> yes
May 30 18:59:08 <mimecar> first, i installed openzaurus
May 30 19:00:54 <A__A> In the Sharp distro which came with your C1000, did qkonsole have this bug:-- random characters cluttering the screen?
May 30 19:01:12 <mimecar> i didn't used console, sorry
May 30 19:01:27 <mimecar> you can find a newer qkconsole package
May 30 19:01:49 <A__A> 9.3?!
May 30 19:02:08 <mimecar> you can, with luck find a newer version of package
May 30 19:05:08 <A__A> I am using newer version: "qkonsole_0.9.3-20040205_arm.ipk.gz" package.  It's probably not exactly qkonsole's fault, but the interface with the rest of the Sharp distro.
May 30 19:14:25 <mimecar> ok
May 30 19:14:27 <mimecar> hi pleemans
May 30 19:16:01 <pleemans> Hi mimecar!
May 30 19:16:34 <pleemans> Not sure if we ever met ;-)
May 30 19:17:34 <mimecar> it's posible xD
May 30 19:20:02 <pleemans> I haven't missed a fosdem yet (easy being from Belgium).
May 30 19:20:24 <mimecar> i'll go to a fosdem some day
May 30 19:20:34 <pleemans> You have to ;-)
May 30 19:20:42 <pleemans> For the beer alone!
May 30 19:20:50 <mimecar> the only "real world" event i went, was the agademy
May 30 19:20:53 <pleemans> Remind me to pay you one!
May 30 19:20:53 <mimecar> guademy
May 30 19:21:14 <mimecar> it looks fosdem is a beer event ;)
May 30 19:21:18 <pleemans> lol
May 30 19:21:22 <pleemans> For some yes!
May 30 19:21:32 <mimecar> for you xD ?
May 30 19:21:57 <pleemans> Not really... I allready know how dangerous the belgian beers are.
May 30 19:22:10 <pleemans> Prefer to try them when not nedding to drive home.
May 30 19:22:19 <pleemans> s/nedding/needing
May 30 19:23:06 <pleemans> I like going to conferences. SHould try to convince my boss it's time for another one :-)
May 30 19:24:41 <mimecar> first, i must learn more
May 30 19:24:50 <mimecar> my skills are lower than others..
May 30 19:25:59 <pleemans> Hey, not true, I'm only a interested user...
May 30 19:26:22 <pleemans> Bet you have way more embedded skills as I do...
May 30 19:26:48 <A__A> mimecar, to admit that you are already on the road to guruhood.
May 30 19:27:16 <pleemans> Also very true!
May 30 19:28:14 <mimecar> some day i'll write good programs
May 30 19:28:38 <pleemans> And I think the learning part is the fun part, once you know something, it gets boring quickly...
May 30 19:30:30 <mimecar> yes, compile angstorm is boring ;)
May 30 19:30:48 <A__A> Actually that's why I searched for something like Zaurus.  I want to understand unix without the distraction of the Internet.
May 30 19:31:12 <mimecar> zaurus can use internet
May 30 19:31:16 <mimecar> that's a problem for you xD
May 30 19:32:41 <hvontres|home> A__A: but only if you put the card in :)
May 30 19:34:56 <A__A> I find you can learn much deeper if you solve things yourself, and by re-reading books.  I only go on Internet with a Desktop system.  I never use wifi or mobile phones.  and stay away from high clock speeds.  Microwaves.
May 30 19:39:10 <mimecar> i use wifi, on laptop, phone...
May 30 19:40:41 <summatusmentis> A__A: why do you stay away from wifi/mobile phones, high clock speeds and microwaves?
May 30 19:41:36 <mimecar> summatusmentis: it's radiation you're receiving
May 30 19:41:42 <mimecar> less radiation, better
May 30 19:42:02 <summatusmentis> meh... wifi is everywhere
May 30 19:42:08 <A__A> mimecar - I used to get migraines a lot - for 10 years - so now I live in countryside, eat organic wholefood (no chemicals), and am vegetarian.  Last migraine (touch wood, 1 year ago).
May 30 19:42:09 <hvontres|home> A__A: The only problem with using the zaurus as an intro to linux is that it has some quirks that are specific to small embedded systems
May 30 19:42:41 <summatusmentis> A__A: interesting... w00t organic wholefood!
May 30 19:42:53 <mimecar> ie, mc donalds :P
May 30 19:43:03 <A__A> w00t?
May 30 19:43:07 <mimecar> where're you from A__A
May 30 19:43:21 <A__A> North York Moors in England.
May 30 19:43:36 <A__A> what is w00t?
May 30 19:44:19 <summatusmentis> A__A: just an exaclamation... woot, except w/ 0's instead of o's
May 30 19:44:38 <mimecar> i'm from spain
May 30 19:44:45 <summatusmentis> I spend too much time on IRC >_>
May 30 19:44:57 <mimecar> you should study more ...
May 30 19:45:13 <summatusmentis> I'm done with school for the summer, now I need to work more
May 30 19:45:33 <summatusmentis> I'm learning kernel programming for Summer of Code
May 30 19:45:52 <mimecar> language ?
May 30 19:46:22 <summatusmentis> what do you mean?
May 30 19:46:30 <summatusmentis> study language?
May 30 19:46:32 <mimecar> do you use C ?
May 30 19:46:50 <A__A> I know Portugal, Oporto and Liboa.  Madrid for one day (yuck... capital city).  Andalusia in my childhood for 6 months, olives!!!!!
May 30 19:47:36 <summatusmentis> yeah, C. They apparently you can only write kernel code in C. C++ is accepted as patches, but only if you want your pants flamed off
May 30 19:47:53 <mimecar> i know that
May 30 19:48:15 <mimecar> c++ has some interesting features
May 30 19:48:25 <A__A> C++ I hate it, that Bjarn Stroustrup is a turd.
May 30 19:48:33 <summatusmentis> I guess... I wish both C and C++ were documented more, like Java
May 30 19:48:46 <mimecar> A__A: stl is useful
May 30 19:48:56 <A__A> stl?
May 30 19:49:05 <mimecar> standard template library
May 30 19:49:21 <mimecar> is a library with data structures (queue, vectors) and algorithms
May 30 19:50:16 <A__A> No. No. I hate C++.  Maybe that's why I started getting migraines...
May 30 19:51:37 <A__A> C is quite elegant in small doses, except include files drive me mad.
May 30 19:51:53 <A__A> dangblasted teenagers
May 30 19:52:06 <summatusmentis> A__A: you just want to write everything?
May 30 19:52:22 <A__A> ?
May 30 19:52:35 <summatusmentis> why do include files annoy you?
May 30 19:52:51 <summatusmentis> if you didn't have include files, how else would you get pre-written functions?
May 30 19:54:58 <A__A> Oh, you never know what anything really means in a big system, forever tracing back include definitions.  That's why Java only imports but doesn't have "include".
May 30 19:55:49 <summatusmentis> I'm not sure what you mean?
May 30 19:57:12 <mimecar> me neither
May 30 19:59:58 <A__A> The 'include' in C/++ implies a preprocessor.  You know, 'include stdio' tells the preprocessor to go and include the file.  'import' means to import pre-compiled definitions into your Java code.
May 30 20:00:26 <summatusmentis> oh, so how does it differ? does it matter that much?
May 30 20:00:38 <mimecar> one, you must read all the code
May 30 20:00:49 <mimecar> java import the lib directly
May 30 20:01:38 <summatusmentis> the lib has a bunch of stuff in it anyway... right?
May 30 20:01:58 <mimecar> yes
May 30 20:02:03 <mimecar> on the java runtime..
May 30 20:06:54 <A__A> Have you tried looking at a C system with a big mess of includes and 'ifdefs'?  Aggh!!  A long time ago, the preprocessor idea was a very elegant system, in the 70's, while making UNIX.  That was 30 years ago when a handful of people all knew eachothers work.  The real problem is there's no rules about prepocessor includes.  Java Imports are part of Java.  You can understand clearly what's going on, what is and isn't defined.
May 30 20:07:27 <mimecar> A__A: yes, but C/C++ are low level languages
May 30 20:07:36 <mimecar> java hasn't it's limitation
May 30 20:08:32 <A__A> So is Modula-2, but it has imports, and exports, and no preprocessor.
May 30 20:09:12 <A__A> Anyway, C looks like spider web and cockroaches, baratas.
May 30 20:09:22 <mimecar> xDD
May 30 20:09:32 <A__A> And C++ looks like hell itself.
May 30 20:09:45 <A__A> *::^{
May 30 20:09:56 <mimecar> code depends of programmers
May 30 20:11:00 <A__A> If I find a workable Zaurus distro, I want to install and learn Erlang.
May 30 20:11:10 <mimecar> learn pearl
May 30 20:11:13 <mimecar> is funnier
May 30 20:11:35 <mimecar> or python
May 30 20:12:08 <A__A> Come on mimecar, which is it, perl or python, which do you like?  You can't like BOTH.
May 30 20:12:31 <mimecar> I use python on my work, and perl some times at home
May 30 20:12:48 <A__A> What do you do?
May 30 20:13:06 <mimecar> on work, translate dato from different programs
May 30 20:13:18 <mimecar> for example i get some data processed and i want plot it on matlab
May 30 20:14:30 <A__A> I find python very beautiful.  I'm sorry, but perl... migraines.  La migra.
May 30 20:15:23 <mimecar> you can write ofuscate code, better than c :)
May 30 20:15:32 <mimecar> it's a language feature xD
May 30 20:16:25 <mimecar> lunch time, see you later
May 30 20:16:59 <A__A> I must put the goats in.
May 30 21:04:45 <mimecar> re A__A
May 30 21:05:12 <A__A> mimecar
May 30 21:07:13 <A__A> You recommend angstrom then?
May 30 21:07:26 <mimecar> i don't know status on your device
May 30 21:07:45 <A__A> Sharp Zaurus SL-C3200
May 30 21:07:53 <mimecar> on my c1000 i can work without problems on english
May 30 21:08:11 <A__A> And spanish?
May 30 21:08:21 <mimecar> on spanish status is bad
May 30 21:08:36 <A__A> Porque?
May 30 21:08:39 <mimecar> i can compile locale on spanish, but they're not included on image
May 30 21:09:46 <A__A> Let me guess.  Only English locale available.
May 30 21:10:05 <mimecar> on base image yes
May 30 21:10:21 <mimecar> i'll check configuration on a near future (july)
May 30 21:15:00 <A__A> My wife originally wanted the Zaurus as a personal end-user computer/palmtop.  But she realized it was based on Linux, and she "passed" on it.  We use Apple MacOS X for Desktop.  It's for real people.  She is learning Mandarin Chinese.  It's a dream (easy) in Apple, multi-lingal and can be installed easily.  I got Zaurus instead.  
May 30 21:15:20 <A__A> Lond sentences.
May 30 21:15:23 <A__A> Long
May 30 21:15:54 <mimecar> c3200 it's a good device
May 30 21:17:30 <A__A> Hardware, very nice, exactly what we want.  Sharp software is crappy (merda).
May 30 21:17:33 * XorA|gone hasnt turned on his 3200 for months
May 30 21:18:03 <A__A> XorA|gone, why not?
May 30 21:18:16 <XorA|gone> so many devices, so little time
May 30 21:18:40 <A__A> forthcome, won't you?
May 30 21:19:12 <XorA|gone> gta01, gta02, n810, eeePC, C3200 sl-5500
May 30 21:20:25 <A__A> C3200 sl-5500 are Zaurii.  eeePC some sort of MS palmtop?  What are the gta and n810?
May 30 21:21:57 <XorA|gone> gta0X is OpenMoko phone devices, n810 is nokia internet tabled
May 30 21:22:06 <XorA|gone> eeePC is a linux ultra mobile laptop
May 30 21:22:44 <A__A> What do you use now, if 3200 is in the cupboard?
May 30 21:24:29 <XorA|gone> eeePC
May 30 21:24:32 <XorA|gone> and n810
May 30 21:24:42 <XorA|gone> depending how large a device I want to carry
May 30 21:25:34 <XorA|gone> oh, forget my PSP and gp2x :-)
May 30 21:25:55 <mimecar> and the girlfriend, pet, childs..
May 30 21:26:31 <A__A> mimecar: Is the C3200 with angstrom a usable palmtop organiser, or is it buggy, a developer system?  What do you run on the eeePC XorA|gone? PSP, like Kenny McCormick?
May 30 21:26:50 <mimecar> A__A: on my c1000 works ok
May 30 21:26:59 <mimecar> some time wifi is lost on kernel updates..
May 30 21:29:40 <A__A> Sorry c1000.  That's the 32000 without the disk, yes?  Is Angstrom Linux on your Z C1000 pre-configured for the tiny screen, or do you haveto adjust everything to read it?
May 30 21:29:57 <mimecar> you can increase font size
May 30 21:30:00 <mimecar> angstrom runs gpe
May 30 21:32:02 <A__A> gpe.  Remind me what is it?
May 30 21:32:25 <mimecar> you can find opie, a """"fork""""" of sharp interface with qt
May 30 21:32:43 <mimecar> or gpe, related with gtk
May 30 21:32:52 <A__A> A graphical doofinky manager?
May 30 21:33:27 <A__A> It provides the widgets and WIMP items?
May 30 21:33:31 <mimecar> http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/gallery/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Applications
May 30 21:33:51 <A__A> Working...
May 30 21:42:35 <A__A> mimecar: Thankyou.  "A picture is worth a thousand words".  I am 50 and wear glasses for reading (also I have astigmatism in my left eye).  I find the Zaurus screen just comfortably readable at the largest font sizes.  Can you change the system fonts (menus, dialogues) easily?  On Sharp distro it's very annoying because I cannot adjust the fonts in the system, only application fonts.
May 30 21:42:48 <mimecar> A__A: short sentences :)
May 30 21:43:00 <mimecar> yes you can change fonts
May 30 21:43:07 <mimecar> and you can use gtk themes
May 30 21:46:24 <A__A> So angstrom is a laptop-feel interface?  By that I mean, windows can be pulled around, dragged, and tweaked and sizedlike on a desktop PC.  It's not a Palmtop interface -- where one application holds the screen at a time, and the whole interface is simplified -- like the Sharp distro, or the Psion Revo's Epoc OS.
May 30 21:46:50 <mimecar> is not palm
May 30 21:47:33 <A__A> Is this easy for you at this size screen?
May 30 21:47:53 <mimecar> there're programs bigger than screen
May 30 21:48:06 <mimecar> but you can use many with 640x40
May 30 21:48:50 <A__A> Spill the beans please!  Which applications are too big?
May 30 21:49:03 <A__A> big screenwise
May 30 21:49:11 <mimecar> i have test abiword and gnumeric, work ok
May 30 21:49:28 <mimecar> mc has some dialogs bigger than screen, byt you can use it
May 30 21:49:51 <XorA|gone> I even used gimp once
May 30 21:50:03 <A__A> mc?
May 30 21:50:16 <mimecar> midnight commandr, a clon of norton comander
May 30 21:51:09 <A__A> what is it midnight commander, a simple explanation?
May 30 21:52:05 <mimecar> the name
May 30 21:52:44 <mimecar> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/cs/thumb/2/2e/Mc-screenshot.png/400px-Mc-screenshot.png
May 30 21:53:08 <A__A> No no, what it its use, function?  Why do you use it for?
May 30 21:53:24 <mimecar> file manager
May 30 21:53:30 <XorA|gone> heh a uk person :-)
May 30 21:53:42 <hvontres|home> XorA|gone: with goats :)
May 30 21:54:09 <mimecar> A__A: you will find it on all the linux distro
May 30 21:54:16 <mimecar> all good distro :P
May 30 21:54:41 <A__A> But why use it?  Why not command line?
May 30 21:54:49 <mimecar> it's faster
May 30 21:55:21 <mimecar> you can use bash only
May 30 21:55:25 <XorA|gone> because you can rename files that have shell escape characters in them :-)
May 30 21:59:33 <A__A> Ready >
May 30 22:02:34 <A__A> OK, so it's a file manager.  Why does GNU Midnight Commander have dialogues that are too big for the screen?
May 30 22:03:01 <mimecar> because it's developer had more than 640x480
May 30 22:03:03 <mimecar> xD
May 30 22:04:01 <A__A> OK, it is text console based.  What graphical apps are to big for the 640x480 screen of your C1000?
May 30 22:04:21 <mimecar> the only x11 apps i tested worked ok
May 30 22:04:46 <mimecar> i can't tell you, app X doesn't work
May 30 22:05:51 <A__A> Could your grand mother use your C1000/angstrom system to keep in touch with you if you gave it to her for 2 weeks?
May 30 22:06:03 <mimecar> with big fonts, yes
May 30 22:06:34 <A__A> Can you expand a little on "yes".  I am skeptical.
May 30 22:06:46 <mimecar> you can increase font size
May 30 22:06:59 <mimecar> and playing with gtk, use bigger buttons
May 30 22:11:25 <A__A> Are there any bugs -- glitches -- in your C1000/angstrom system?  Frankly, I could not hand my C3200/Sharp distro to a granny and keep in touch with her for a week.  here are too many glitches, gremlins, problemas,  bugs, in the design.  You have to reboot quite often.  Rotation of the screen is very patchy.  So... what are the problems?
May 30 22:11:44 <A__A> there are too many
May 30 22:11:59 <mimecar> i've a working system and i don't update / install new programs now
May 30 22:12:06 <mimecar> all the software i need works
May 30 22:12:21 <mimecar> for example, pim apps, ebook reader, word processor..
May 30 22:14:37 <A__A> The Ereader in my Sharp distro (Opie Reader) is infuriating.  PIM is... personal information management?  Yes?
May 30 22:14:47 <mimecar> yes
May 30 22:14:52 <mimecar> i use fbreader for ebooks
May 30 22:15:44 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 30 22:15:46 <A__A> It has taken me two weeks to get get it from totally unusable, to barely useful.  It still scrolls too fast atit's slowest setting.
May 30 22:15:46 <kantlivelong> lo all
May 30 22:16:02 <kantlivelong> are there any 3rd party feeds for spitz?
May 30 22:16:10 <A__A> Greetings Earthling
May 30 22:16:13 <mimecar> i don't think so
May 30 22:16:31 <kantlivelong> i remember there being some for poodle
May 30 22:16:40 <kantlivelong> need x11vnc
May 30 22:19:30 <A__A> "x11vnc is a program to allow remote access to an existing X server session via Virtual Network Computing (VNC).  It works by continuously polling the X server's frame buffer for changes."
May 30 22:19:47 <A__A> Ah thanks.  Nice explanation.
May 30 22:22:06 <kantlivelong> heh
May 30 22:23:08 <A__A> mimecar: what are the problems with your system?
May 30 22:23:08 <A__A> mimecar: what are the problems with your system?
May 30 22:23:32 <mimecar> my wifi doesn't work, some packages are not updated
May 30 22:23:39 <mimecar> my language doesn't work..
May 30 22:24:15 <A__A> Thank you.
May 30 22:27:58 <A__A> I last tried Linux on a PC 5 years ago.  My wife refused to go on with it when we discovered that many applications in X Windows will not cut and paste between eachother.  (There are 11 or so clipboards in X and every app tried to use a different one).  We wer forced to go back to Windows fucking NT which we both hated.  Is it still like this with cut and paste between applications?
May 30 22:28:59 <A__A> Oh jeez.
May 30 22:32:43 <A__A> What's a feed?  Some sort of FTP server?
May 30 23:09:45 <kantlivelong> hey all
May 30 23:09:50 <kantlivelong> does fluxbox have issues?
May 30 23:23:08 <A_A> You ain't seen me, right?
May 30 23:23:59 <A_A> A__A what are you doing here?  Fuck off you millennial piece of...
May 30 23:24:41 <A_A> Ah that's better couldn't stand that Linux twerp
May 30 23:28:00 <A_A> I'll get me coat.
May 30 23:50:58 <kantlivelong> how come theres no src in ipkg.conf be default?
May 31 00:10:27 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 31 00:10:29 <kantlivelong> anyone here?
May 31 00:44:03 <kantlivelong> :(
May 31 00:44:50 <summatusmentis> I'm here
May 31 00:45:39 <kantlivelong> summatusmentis: no chance of fluxbox-gpe to work?
May 31 00:45:46 <kantlivelong> or fluxbox-gpe
May 31 00:46:30 <summatusmentis> kantlivelong: ummm... it might.... I have no idea
May 31 00:46:37 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 31 00:46:44 <kantlivelong> did u use e17?
May 31 00:54:02 <summatusmentis> I tried it a while ago, seemed kinda slow... just like everything else on the 3200
May 31 00:54:16 <kantlivelong> hmm
May 31 00:54:23 <kantlivelong> 3200 isnt slow :(
May 31 00:54:46 <kantlivelong> fluxbox doesnt wanna work tho
May 31 00:55:15 <summatusmentis> e17 seemed slow to me
May 31 01:00:13 <kantlivelong> why does X run on fb..
May 31 01:00:15 <kantlivelong> kinda odd
May 31 01:05:24 <summatusmentis> it doesn't I don't think... not in Angstrom
May 31 01:20:58 <kantlivelong> grr
May 31 01:21:00 <kantlivelong> want fluxbox
May 31 01:37:45 <kantlivelong> i dont get it
May 31 01:37:52 <kantlivelong> i had more success w/ OpenZaurus
May 31 01:37:59 <kantlivelong> on a poodle
May 31 01:39:51 <summatusmentis> I don't know dude... you could build it yourself
May 31 01:40:02 <summatusmentis> presumably it's not in the feeds, because it stopped working
May 31 01:41:11 <kantlivelong> odd
May 31 01:52:32 <j0wn> this is becomming annoying
May 31 01:52:35 <kantlivelong> indeed
May 31 01:52:55 <kantlivelong> i was all excited to have a nice fluxbox desktop
May 31 01:53:02 <j0wn> this ldap.so error wont go away ...
May 31 01:54:14 <j0wn> opkg-native-svn for some reason is barfing about my installed ldap ,
May 31 01:54:21 <j0wn> did'nt do it before
May 31 01:55:23 <j0wn> ive been searching for an answer but it wont go away
May 31 01:58:43 <j0wn> ld complains about undefined referencies ... ldd shows nothing wrong
May 31 01:58:53 <j0wn> makes no sense what so ever
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 31 02:59:57 2008