**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 29 02:59:57 2008
Nov 29 04:06:52 <kantlivelong1> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300277057909
Nov 29 04:07:01 <kantlivelong1> if anyones interested in a sl-c3100
Nov 29 06:28:40 <Darklust> *poke*
Nov 29 06:29:08 <Darklust> !logs
Nov 29 06:29:09 <cdbot2> Channel logs for #angstrom are archived at:
Nov 29 06:29:11 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23angstrom
Nov 29 06:29:11 <cdbot2> Live-logs are available at
Nov 29 06:29:12 <cdbot2> http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23angstrom.livelog
Nov 29 06:29:14 <cdbot2> See ?? help-logs for usage instructions
Nov 29 06:32:28 <Darklust> Ehh... so I'll suppose everyones asleep ^.^ but I have a question: I want to boot Angstrom on my iPAQ 3900. Apparently, following the instructions on the wiki, all I can do right now is run it from within WinCE, but I want to flash it to the iPAQ so how exactly would I go about doing that?
Nov 29 06:37:55 <Darklust> O.o
Nov 29 06:37:56 <Darklust> o.O
Nov 29 06:37:58 <Darklust> o.o
Nov 29 06:45:13 <johnx> hi Darklust 
Nov 29 06:45:32 <Darklust> Hi :) Can you help me?
Nov 29 06:45:34 <johnx> I'm not sure that's exactly recommended in most cases
Nov 29 06:46:07 <Darklust> Well maybe I don't understand, but angstrom does run over WinCE as a process within it no?
Nov 29 06:46:58 <johnx> no, it's launched from WinCE and takes over
Nov 29 06:47:31 <Darklust> In angstrom, I'm only left with 2mb of RAM so I assumed WinCE was still running in the background :
Nov 29 06:48:05 <johnx> well Linux uses all the RAM it can to cache files that were opened
Nov 29 06:48:20 <johnx> what you should look at is "cached" + "buffered" + "free" memory
Nov 29 06:48:25 <johnx> that's what's really available
Nov 29 06:48:46 <Darklust> So theres no way to make it faster?
Nov 29 06:48:54 <johnx> probably not, no
Nov 29 06:49:17 <johnx> actually, are you running it on the whole SD card or just from a file on the SD card?
Nov 29 06:49:44 <Darklust> Both the angstrom bootloader.exe and the jffs2 file are on the SD card.
Nov 29 06:50:02 <Darklust> Errr .img
Nov 29 06:50:35 <johnx> it would be faster if you could boot it from an SD card formatted ext2 or 3 instead of an img file, but I don't know how to do that on an ipaq
Nov 29 06:50:40 <johnx> I just have a zaurus here
Nov 29 06:51:19 <Darklust> Well on your Zaurus, did you uncompress the rootfs?
Nov 29 06:51:30 <Darklust> *decompress
Nov 29 06:51:35 <johnx> hmm?
Nov 29 06:51:44 <johnx> the zaurus is pretty different
Nov 29 06:51:47 <Darklust> As in, you expanded the .img?
Nov 29 06:52:13 <johnx> well, on the zaurus I have it running from the internal flash memory
Nov 29 06:52:27 <johnx> because the zaurus can easily be flashed without the OS running
Nov 29 06:52:51 <Darklust> So you did basically what I want to do, but its different in your case.
Nov 29 06:53:14 <johnx> right, because the zaurus was designed to be used with linux, so there are more fail-safes
Nov 29 06:53:26 <johnx> but I also dual-boot from an sd card formatted ext3
Nov 29 06:54:12 <Darklust> This Zaurus sounds pretty powerful
Nov 29 06:55:33 <johnx> it is, but there's much more powerful things appearing these days
Nov 29 06:57:09 <lopLi> yeah.. much much more powerful :)
Nov 29 06:57:34 <johnx> Linux really like RAM and 64MB is starting to seem small these days
Nov 29 06:58:09 <Darklust> Geez all I have are a Dell Axim X50 and my iPAQ :p
Nov 29 06:58:52 <johnx> well it all depends on what you spend your money on :)
Nov 29 06:59:01 <johnx> my desktop PC is pretty old for example ...
Nov 29 07:04:22 <lopLi> yeah , we cant follow this techies thing, just for the sake of fun, but this also depends to people who use it
Nov 29 07:35:23 <Darklust> johnx: Don't know if your still there, but this 'altboot' option, would it allow me to do what I said before?
Nov 29 07:36:05 <johnx> boot from the internal flash? or boot from an ext3 partition on an sd card?
Nov 29 07:37:05 <Darklust> ext3 on SD
Nov 29 07:37:29 <johnx> yeah, it would be a little bit tricky to setup
Nov 29 07:37:39 <johnx> you'd have to modify altboot a little bit I think
Nov 29 07:38:42 <johnx> so you'd end up with an sd card with a small FAT16 partition at the beginning, maybe 32MB, just enough to hold the bootloader.exe (or whatever) and the basic .img file, then you'd make a second partition formatted ext2/3 that takes up the rest of the card
Nov 29 07:39:06 <johnx> then have altboot run in the .img version of angstrom and offer you a choice to boot the .img or boot the second partition
Nov 29 07:39:38 <johnx> there might be an easier way to do this without altboot actually, but I'm not sure if it's possible
Nov 29 07:40:11 <lopLi> go on john
Nov 29 07:41:03 <johnx> a kernel that would look for "/" on the second partition of the SD card would be easier
Nov 29 07:41:28 <johnx> I think that was done for some machine a long time ago, but I don't remember
Nov 29 07:42:29 <Darklust> Ehh thanks I'll look into it.
Nov 29 07:43:46 <lopLi> is multiboot ( more than 2 oses) is possible with slc z
Nov 29 07:44:02 <johnx> yaeh, sure
Nov 29 07:44:26 <johnx> I just switch SD cards to boot different OSes on my c1000
Nov 29 07:45:19 <lopLi> so i can use 4 of my sd to boot different os using this altboot?
Nov 29 07:45:29 <johnx> yes
Nov 29 07:45:38 <johnx> you can also boot any usb stick that works
Nov 29 07:45:54 <lopLi> with ext fs right?
Nov 29 07:45:58 <johnx> yes
Nov 29 07:46:08 <johnx> or a .img file on the sd card
Nov 29 07:46:22 <johnx> there is one trick: they all use the kernel installed to flash
Nov 29 07:47:25 <lopLi> so sharp rom based will never do booting from sd or cf ?
Nov 29 07:47:44 <johnx> you'd have to get kexec working which is not exactly easy, I think
Nov 29 07:52:48 <lopLi> john what do you think is the best multibooting configuration ?
Nov 29 07:53:06 <johnx> booting to SD card
Nov 29 07:53:20 <johnx> it's easy to get it setup and easy to back up your OS and switch
Nov 29 07:53:31 <lopLi> right
Nov 29 07:53:55 <lopLi> cacko and pdaxrom can i multiboot that
Nov 29 07:54:07 <johnx> can they use the same kernel as Angstrom?
Nov 29 07:55:21 <lopLi> no cacko use 2.4.x  based internal kernel
Nov 29 07:55:40 <johnx> well, then you need to research kexec
Nov 29 07:56:00 <johnx> I boot Angstrom, Debian and Ubuntu, so that's all I know about
Nov 29 07:56:25 <lopLi> so this kexec is an option to multiboot os with diff kernel right ?
Nov 29 07:56:46 <lopLi> debian using .img ?
Nov 29 07:56:56 <johnx> debian on an ext3 sdhc card
Nov 29 07:58:18 <lopLi> all of that os is supporting sdhc right ? what us the max size have u ever tried?
Nov 29 07:58:28 <johnx> 8GB
Nov 29 07:58:45 <johnx> The Angstrom (and probably yonggun) kernels have SDHC support
Nov 29 07:59:42 <lopLi> debian with what gui?
Nov 29 08:00:09 <johnx> nothing right now actually
Nov 29 08:00:12 <johnx> just command line
Nov 29 08:00:33 <lopLi> truly linux user then :)
Nov 29 08:01:06 <johnx> I'm using it for development
Nov 29 08:02:01 <lopLi> developer ? using c ?
Nov 29 08:02:28 <johnx> er, mostly making debian packages
Nov 29 08:04:30 <lopLi> is it hard to do what your doing john if i learn from a scratch ?
Nov 29 08:04:53 <johnx> not that hard really
Nov 29 08:05:00 <johnx> just a whole lot of annoying steps :)
Nov 29 08:05:20 <johnx> I'm not a good programmer, I've just spent a long time using Linux
Nov 29 08:05:27 <johnx> <- not smart, just stubborn
Nov 29 08:07:05 <lopLi> (>john is a good low profile man) :)
Nov 29 08:07:24 <lopLi> while i just learn how to use linux properly :)
Nov 29 08:07:50 <johnx> so jump in :) pick a project and start. if I can figure it out, anyone can :D
Nov 29 08:10:05 <lopLi> while you say it, i still confuse to even a simple basic command with it parameter :)
Nov 29 08:10:24 <johnx> just keep at it. It takes time
Nov 29 08:10:30 <johnx> lots of time
Nov 29 08:10:35 <lopLi> :)
Nov 29 08:10:55 <lopLi> hope finally i can use linux with ease
Nov 29 08:12:24 <lopLi> john can i use that altboot method to pc (using flash based card)? 
Nov 29 08:12:59 <johnx> on your desktop? Just use GRUB on your desktop :)
Nov 29 08:13:28 <lopLi> so altboot for z and grub for pc?
Nov 29 08:13:32 <johnx> yes
Nov 29 08:15:26 <lopLi> any guide for me to make this learn proses efficient ? guideline or maybe a book or ?
Nov 29 08:15:48 <lopLi> sorry john to ask u all of this :)
Nov 29 08:15:56 <johnx> no problem :)
Nov 29 08:16:28 <lopLi> thanks again ;)
Nov 29 08:16:39 <johnx> my only advice is; pick a project for yourself that you care about, but is a little bit too difficult for you, then learn as you go
Nov 29 08:16:46 <johnx> you'll learn faster if you're motivated
Nov 29 08:17:11 <johnx> try to understand what you're doing as you go and why instead of just doing it and not thinking about it
Nov 29 08:18:39 <johnx> my first project in linux was making my modem work :D
Nov 29 08:18:42 <johnx> it took me about a month
Nov 29 09:09:34 <lopLi> thanks john, ill do your advice
Nov 29 14:37:31 <HRH_H_Crab> johnx: you about?
Nov 29 14:37:43 <johnx> yeah, though slightly inebriated :)
Nov 29 14:37:53 <johnx> might not be save to trust my advice 100% right now
Nov 29 14:37:57 <HRH_H_Crab> heh
Nov 29 14:38:33 <HRH_H_Crab> you installed your ubuntu on z by just putting debootstrap on the media didnt you?
Nov 29 14:38:44 <HRH_H_Crab> after flashing
Nov 29 14:38:51 <HRH_H_Crab> and using altboot to boot that media
Nov 29 14:39:05 <HRH_H_Crab> and you used the angstrom kernel right?
Nov 29 14:39:28 <johnx> yeah
Nov 29 14:39:29 <HRH_H_Crab> im trying to figure out whether i can try doing the same to put debian on my slug.
Nov 29 14:39:33 <HRH_H_Crab> *ubuntu
Nov 29 14:39:53 <HRH_H_Crab> i think i need another usb memory stick... >:P
Nov 29 14:39:56 <HRH_H_Crab> a plot is forming.
Nov 29 14:40:10 <johnx> take an sd card, put it in a reader, debootstrap --foreign --arch=armel sid /mnt/my-sd-card
Nov 29 14:40:21 <HRH_H_Crab> only thing is,
Nov 29 14:40:33 <HRH_H_Crab> it needs to configure the network by dhcp on boot,
Nov 29 14:40:35 <HRH_H_Crab> and start sshd
Nov 29 14:40:37 <HRH_H_Crab> hmmm...
Nov 29 14:40:42 <HRH_H_Crab> but should still be possible.
Nov 29 14:41:11 <johnx> so debootstrap foreign first, then put the card/stick on your slug, chroot into it and setup what you need to happen
Nov 29 14:41:25 <HRH_H_Crab> yeah but i have no console on the slug
Nov 29 14:41:27 <HRH_H_Crab> thats the thing
Nov 29 14:41:38 <johnx> do you have an OS installed on it right now?
Nov 29 14:41:41 <johnx> linux specifically
Nov 29 14:41:42 <HRH_H_Crab> yep
Nov 29 14:41:46 <HRH_H_Crab> angstrom
Nov 29 14:42:10 <HRH_H_Crab> hmmm
Nov 29 14:42:17 <johnx> so you debootstrap, then plug the card in, chroot into debian from a booted angstrom system and configure it to start the network / ssh automatically before rebooting into debian
Nov 29 14:42:19 <HRH_H_Crab> so i could try some mojo with the other usb port
Nov 29 14:42:25 <HRH_H_Crab> yeah
Nov 29 14:42:33 <HRH_H_Crab> that sounds like a plan
Nov 29 14:42:42 <HRH_H_Crab> cool
Nov 29 14:42:42 <HRH_H_Crab> thanks 
Nov 29 14:43:12 <johnx> I got the idea here: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiHowto
Nov 29 14:43:23 <johnx> scroll down to when they talk about debootstrap
Nov 29 14:43:45 <johnx> works just as well in two separate stages
Nov 29 14:44:09 <HRH_H_Crab> yeah this should be feasible
Nov 29 14:45:06 <HRH_H_Crab> im going to head out and get some food and a nice fat usb stick.
Nov 29 14:45:34 <HRH_H_Crab> thanks for the inspiration
Nov 29 14:46:33 <johnx> just passing on other people's good ideas
Nov 29 14:49:17 <HRH_H_Crab> well i have already used debootstrap before to make domus on gentoo.
Nov 29 14:49:23 <HRH_H_Crab> its such a cool little tool
Nov 29 14:49:38 <HRH_H_Crab> and considering the pain i went through to get debian on my z,
Nov 29 14:49:49 <HRH_H_Crab> it immediately seemed like a good idea.
Nov 29 14:50:22 <HRH_H_Crab> and i just looked and it seems like the slug kernel i have is nice
Nov 29 14:50:30 <HRH_H_Crab> everything needed is built in.
Nov 29 14:50:36 <HRH_H_Crab> so i don't have to worry about modules.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 30 02:59:57 2008