**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 19 02:59:57 2008
Dec 19 11:47:24 <goki-_-> Hi - I just got Angstrom running on an atmel 9263 EK - can I install python? There don't seem to be any packages available, but I can see packages on the angstrom site
Dec 19 11:47:53 <johnx> what feeds do you have in /etc/ipkg.conf and under /etc/ipkg ?
Dec 19 11:50:13 <goki-_-> I'll I have quite a lot of .conf files - one of which is python-feed.conf
Dec 19 11:50:22 <goki-_-> that was preinstalled, but doesn't seem to do anything
Dec 19 11:50:33 <johnx> have you run opkg update yet?
Dec 19 11:50:45 <goki-_-> is it ipkg or opkg?
Dec 19 11:51:08 <johnx> if you're on 2008.1 (or 2008.6 or whatever) it's opkg
Dec 19 11:51:18 <johnx> if opkg exists on your system use it
Dec 19 11:51:21 <johnx> otherwise use ipkg
Dec 19 11:51:40 <goki-_-> ah ok, that was confusing me, I thought it might be a typo
Dec 19 11:51:57 <goki-_-> I've run update, but it gives an error: An error ocurred, return value: 7.
Dec 19 11:52:11 <johnx> that's all it says?
Dec 19 11:52:20 <goki-_-> The files in /var/lib/ipkg are all empty
Dec 19 11:52:34 <goki-_-> well, it goes through downloading and inflating each Packages.gz 
Dec 19 11:52:41 <goki-_-> including a python one
Dec 19 11:52:44 <goki-_-> then the error
Dec 19 11:53:14 <johnx> you're running it as root, right?
Dec 19 11:53:35 <goki-_-> Ah possibly not now... I think I was before
Dec 19 11:53:56 <goki-_-> that went better I think :)
Dec 19 11:54:06 <goki-_-> sorry about that, I forgot the ssh user is not root
Dec 19 11:54:33 <goki-_-> Files in /var/lib/ipkg are still 0 bytes though
Dec 19 11:56:04 <goki-_-> If I delete say "python" then ipkg update, it recreates another 0 byte file
Dec 19 12:00:15 <johnx> are the packages files it's downloading 0 bytes as well?
Dec 19 12:00:24 <johnx> as in: are you sure it's pointing to the right place?
Dec 19 12:01:03 <goki-_-> ah right, that's a good idea
Dec 19 12:03:06 <goki-_-> yup, empty
Dec 19 12:03:11 <goki-_-> http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv5te/python/
Dec 19 12:07:07 <goki-_-> So I guess we are on the wrong version of angstrom?
Dec 19 12:07:18 <goki-_-> that directory exists BTW, it just has empty files
Dec 19 12:18:28 <johnx> look at angstrom-distribution.org/repo and try to pick a matching feed to follow, then update your .conf files
Dec 19 12:18:48 <johnx> did you compile this image yourself?
Dec 19 12:56:00 <goki-_-> no it actually came with the board
Dec 19 12:56:12 <goki-_-> We're trying a newer version now - it was about a year old I think
Dec 19 12:56:29 <johnx> ah, surprising it already had opkg
Dec 19 12:57:29 <goki-_-> no it just had ipkg
Dec 19 12:57:45 <goki-_-> I was asking about opkg because I kept seeing it in howtos, but I didn't have it :)
Dec 19 12:58:01 <goki-_-> I thought it might be a typo with "o" being next to "i"
Dec 19 12:58:16 <johnx> make sure to follow a 2007.x feed then
Dec 19 12:58:52 <goki-_-> We've got the new one on now, I think it was built about a week ago
Dec 19 12:59:01 <goki-_-> just trying to get networking working
Dec 19 13:17:05 <goki-_-> nah this one does the same thing, but at least it is up to date
Dec 19 13:17:17 <goki-_-> so now we just need to work out how to change to some actual working feeds :)
Dec 19 13:25:55 <johnx> goki-_-, so you have a version with opkg. you want a 2008.x feed
Dec 19 13:27:21 <johnx> check out angstrom-distribution.org/repo, look at a package for the right arch from the 2008 feed, then change the lines in your /etc/ipkg/*.conf files with the right URL
Dec 19 16:50:00 <goki-_-> ah great, I think I got at least one of them sorted out
Dec 19 16:50:04 <goki-_-> just got to do the rest now
Dec 19 17:07:34 <goki-_-> thanks for help - time for home now I think
Dec 19 17:55:55 <technomancy> so I just flashed my collie, and now the keyboard is all screwed up. basically every single key is reading out as another, and it's not an obvious weird layout either. (it makes backspace into "n")
Dec 19 17:56:49 <Sketch> that is odd
Dec 19 17:57:27 <technomancy> also, the flash only took 30 seconds or so; it probably didn't finish
Dec 19 17:57:33 <Sketch> you might want to try redownloading/reflashing?
Dec 19 17:57:36 <technomancy> but it's not bricked; it loads up
Dec 19 17:57:40 <technomancy> yeah, maybe try another image
Dec 19 17:59:09 <Sketch> i haven't flashed for a while, but 30 seconds doesn't sound unreasonable iif you only did the main image (unless the collie flash is slower than spitz and friends)
Dec 19 17:59:40 <technomancy> the readme I saw said 3-12 minutes is to be expected
Dec 19 18:00:22 <technomancy> what's the "main" image? the console-only one?
Dec 19 18:00:32 * technomancy is using ones from http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/collie/
Dec 19 18:02:07 <technomancy> hmm... trying to flash the GPE image just gives blinking lights
Dec 19 18:02:39 <Sketch> technomancy: well, it varies depending on hardware
Dec 19 18:03:38 <Sketch> at least on the spitz-class machines, the kernel is on one partition, and the base image is on another, and you can install the base image on the hard drive instead of on the flash
Dec 19 18:04:03 <Sketch> for me the hard drive install was the slowest part
Dec 19 18:04:12 <technomancy> oh, this one doesn't have an HDD
Dec 19 18:04:21 <technomancy> but I guess you can install to SD
Dec 19 18:04:41 <Sketch> i think that's possible if you use altboot or something
Dec 19 18:05:06 <Sketch> i haven't tried, i've just used the default c1000 (non-hd) and c3100 (hd) setups
Dec 19 18:05:17 <technomancy> ok, so I'd need to flash to the console image first?
Dec 19 18:05:26 <Sketch> well, you only need one image
Dec 19 18:05:39 <Sketch> but the installer should flash the kernel and then the base image
Dec 19 18:06:25 <Sketch> some might let you pick and choose what you install, but last i installed the default installer didn't give you much choice
Dec 19 18:06:37 <technomancy> the altboot instructions I saw said you had to start with the console image
Dec 19 18:06:41 <Sketch> ah
Dec 19 18:06:48 <Sketch> it might be different with altboot
Dec 19 18:07:03 <Sketch> the only difference between the console, X11, etc images are the other ones have mor stuff
Dec 19 18:07:12 <Sketch> so you can always install the console image and then ipkg install the other stuff later
Dec 19 18:07:30 <technomancy> good to know
Dec 19 18:07:38 <technomancy> just like Ubuntu's server edition, I guess
Dec 19 18:07:53 <Sketch> i am guessing they might be saying that because you may have less space free on your internal flash (or SD), due to partitioning it for altboot and/or more OSs 
Dec 19 18:08:30 <technomancy> ok, I'm flashing to the console image, and this is lasting longer than the opie image I tried before.
Dec 19 18:08:33 <technomancy> taking that as a good sign
Dec 19 18:10:55 <technomancy> yay, seeing the angström logo
Dec 19 18:14:27 <technomancy> huh; it's stuck halfway through booting
Dec 19 18:14:39 <technomancy> is there any way you can get it to show what's going on instead of just the progress bar?
Dec 19 18:16:26 <technomancy> yeah, it's consistently hanging halfway
Dec 19 18:21:18 <technomancy> if angstrom doesn't work on my collie, is it reasonable to try OZ?
Dec 19 18:22:29 <xota> hi! I'm doing a ipkg update on a collie (openzaurus 3.5.4) and the servers don't respond. Do anybody know about a mirror?
Dec 19 18:46:48 <technomancy> boo... x11 image won't flash either
Dec 19 18:57:15 <technomancy> oh great... I just realized I don't know how to ctrl-c to stop this ping
Dec 19 18:58:22 <technomancy> ah... calendar is ctrl
Dec 19 19:17:26 <xota> I've installed bootstrap image to install icewm, but I don't have startx command and I don't know what packet install, what is it?
Dec 19 19:23:06 <xota> In my debian system the packet is xinit (dpkg -S startx), but I don't have this packet in collie
Dec 19 19:30:04 <technomancy> why would I be seeing this while trying to install a package? tar: ./control: Cannot change ownership to uid 501, gid 501: Operation not permitted
Dec 19 19:30:24 <technomancy> also... why can't i chown stuff when I'm root?
Dec 19 19:31:21 <Sketch> are you running on vfat?
Dec 19 19:31:34 <Sketch> or if the filesystem is mounted read-only, that could cause it too
Dec 19 19:31:50 <Sketch> or if it's on an SD card, and the write protect switch is on...
Dec 19 19:32:22 <technomancy> might be vfat, yeah
Dec 19 19:32:37 <technomancy> crap; that means I can't share this card w/ my camera.
Dec 19 19:33:32 <technomancy> ended up not being able to use angstrom; none of the images would boot. =\ had to go with pdaxrom.
Dec 19 19:34:29 <technomancy> hmmm... all the documentation I've seen says that the collie has 64MB of built-in storage, but df tells me there's only 14
Dec 19 19:43:21 <Sketch> the default flash is partitioned
Dec 19 19:43:47 <Sketch> there is one partition used for the kernel, there may also be seperate partitions for the base system and /home
Dec 19 19:44:33 <technomancy> oh, there's another 12MB at /dev/shm... wonder what that's for
Dec 19 19:44:40 <technomancy> but still there's a lot missing
Dec 19 19:45:58 <Sketch> /dev/shm is like a virtual ram disk, it's not written to any physical media
Dec 19 19:46:15 <Sketch>  /dev/shm is like a virtual ram disk, it's not written to any physical media
Dec 19 19:46:26 <Sketch> (did that get sent the first time?)
Dec 19 19:46:54 <technomancy> yeah
Dec 19 19:47:15 <technomancy> so it looks like only one of the default partitions is getting mounted then.
Dec 19 19:49:01 <technomancy> hrm... the only spare SD I have is 16MB; still too small for minimo
Dec 19 20:01:09 <Sketch> that is small
Dec 19 20:01:15 <Sketch> you know flash is really cheap now ;) 
Dec 19 20:01:30 <Sketch> i paid <$10 including shipping for a 2gb microSD w/ full size SD adapter
Dec 19 20:06:05 <xota> what is the command to startx? I can't find startx in any packet
Dec 19 20:20:55 <technomancy> Sketch: yeah, it's just a matter of getting out to find a place they sell it. I've been snowed in for 2 days
Dec 19 20:23:19 <technomancy> I guess I just need to futz around with manually mounting devices to try to find where the rest of my onboard flash is
Dec 19 20:23:38 <technomancy> Sketch: thanks for the tips
Dec 19 20:37:31 <kantlivelong> hey all
Dec 19 21:02:51 <technomancy> is there any way to look at a /dev/ node to see stuff like how much space it's got, or do you just have to try mounting it?
Dec 19 21:05:30 <technomancy> oh, I guess half of the onboard memory is ram and the other half is storage?
Dec 19 21:09:56 <LostInSpace> Hey guys i was checking out machine mentors....I take it no one is working on the spitz anymore?
Dec 19 21:18:19 <technomancy> this is killing me... no emacs; no w3m in pdaxrom. =\
Dec 19 21:18:34 <technomancy> but the angstrom console image won't boot, and it won't even tell me what's wrong
Dec 19 21:25:16 <technomancy> I'll try stuff from unstable/autobuild/collie instead of unstable/images/collie
Dec 19 21:42:14 <technomancy> back to openzaurus. =\
Dec 19 21:58:06 <technomancy> huh... the problem is definitely that of not enough free onboard flash. the OZ 48-16 image will flash, but the 32-32 will not
Dec 19 22:00:07 <Sketch> one problem you could potentially have, some OS installers may repartition on their own, some may not
Dec 19 22:00:36 <technomancy> I see. I'm assuming OZ doesn't, or it wouldn't have this problem.
Dec 19 22:02:35 <Sketch> i have only installed cacko and angstrom...the cacko installer did not do it automatically, but you could do it from the menu (in fact, the directions said you had to if you were using the default sharp partition)
Dec 19 22:03:12 <Sketch> i believe the angstrom installer does (for spitz anyway, it might not for collie) 
Dec 19 22:05:00 <technomancy> is cacko related to pdaxrom?
Dec 19 22:07:27 <technomancy> weird, some of my internal storage is mounted at /media/ram
Dec 19 22:09:06 <technomancy> and my largest partition is /var mounted as tmpfs? weird
Dec 19 22:10:56 <Sketch> nipe, cacko is an enganced sharp rom
Dec 19 22:11:53 <technomancy> oh, so non-free?
Dec 19 22:12:27 <Sketch> well, free as in beer
Dec 19 22:12:57 <Sketch> it does have some of the sharp binary tools available
Dec 19 22:13:20 <Sketch> i elwouldnt reallt recommend it unles you really pke the sharp rom
Dec 19 22:13:38 <Sketch> s/pke/like/
Dec 19 22:14:18 * Sketch is typing on an iphone..i realy miss the zaurus kbd ;)
Dec 19 22:14:40 <technomancy> heh; yeah the typos are a dead giveaway for iphones
Dec 19 22:15:44 <technomancy> well I think I'm stuck with OZ for now unless I can figure out how to get messages from the angstrom boot process
Dec 19 22:15:54 <Sketch> as soon as there is an android phone yhat works on att, ill prolly switch
Dec 19 22:16:36 <technomancy> telcos make me sick
Dec 19 22:16:44 <technomancy> but that's another discussion entirely
Dec 19 22:17:12 <technomancy> oh lovely, it looks like the OZ package mirror is down. =\
Dec 19 22:18:24 <Sketch> yeah  they all suck, i think its a requirement to be a telco
Dec 19 22:19:23 <technomancy> Sketch: are you running Emacs on your zaurus?
Dec 19 22:21:05 <Sketch> not natively, i mpstly just used it as a mobile ssh terminal
Dec 19 22:21:42 <Sketch> sshd into my screen sssioj rnnng emacs
Dec 19 22:22:29 <technomancy> that's probably the best way to do it
Dec 19 22:22:42 <Sketch> i do the same om the iphone but emacs is painful with the soft kbd
Dec 19 22:22:43 <technomancy> good grief man, are you wearing mittens or something? =)
Dec 19 22:22:46 <technomancy> heh
Dec 19 22:22:53 <technomancy> so you jailbroke it?
Dec 19 22:22:54 <Sketch> hehe
Dec 19 22:23:17 <Sketch> nope, i paid for sn ssh clieny
Dec 19 22:23:24 <technomancy> oh, I thought that was illegal
Dec 19 22:23:51 <Sketch> there are like 4 on the app store
Dec 19 22:23:58 <technomancy> did you try to get emacs on angstrom, or did you just stick with SSH from the beginning?
Dec 19 22:24:43 <Sketch> i did jailbreak it at first, but tbe jailbreak terminal was wirse thwn the ssh ap
Dec 19 22:24:59 <Sketch> i prett m h usd ash from the beginning
Dec 19 22:25:10 <Sketch> pretty much
Dec 19 22:25:22 <Sketch> the train is unusually bunpy today ;)
Dec 19 22:25:55 <technomancy> looks like OZ has an Emacs build from 2006; may try that
Dec 19 22:26:17 <technomancy> I want to program the zaurus directly and use it to control electronics, so I can't rely on SSH for everything.
Dec 19 22:26:41 <technomancy> might use Ruby instead though since Emacs is 15MB
Dec 19 22:27:09 <technomancy> I guess that doesn't matter once I get a bigger SD
Dec 19 22:27:36 <technomancy> and assuming I find an OZ package mirror that actually works... =\
Dec 19 22:27:54 <Sketch> i did onstall emacs on the sharp rom when i first got it, before i started using alternate roms
Dec 19 22:28:24 <Sketch> and it  seemed ok..that was console only tho
Dec 19 22:28:43 <technomancy> yeah, I'm skipping X
Dec 19 22:29:15 <Sketch> and i never tried any big liwp apps  
Dec 19 22:30:03 <Sketch> i was thinking it might not be bad as the primary interface
Dec 19 22:30:17 <Sketch> i dunno about with the collie kbd tho
Dec 19 22:32:37 * technomancy found three mirrors... one times out, one 404s, one is host not found. =\
Dec 19 22:33:13 <Sketch> yeah
Dec 19 22:33:48 <Sketch> all the OZ devs switched to angstrom i think
Dec 19 22:35:23 <technomancy> yeah. too bad collie is unsupported. =\
Dec 19 22:35:45 <Sketch> btw, what kind of electronics?
Dec 19 22:36:10 <technomancy> going to start with wheels
Dec 19 22:36:16 <technomancy> maybe some bump sensors
Dec 19 22:36:25 <technomancy> unfortunately w/o USB I can't do a camera
Dec 19 22:36:34 <Sketch> ah
Dec 19 22:37:13 <Sketch> some modls support usb
Dec 19 22:37:47 <technomancy> well I would need the serial port for that, which I'd already be using for other things
Dec 19 22:37:59 <Sketch> cx00 does, i thought the 6000 too
Dec 19 22:38:17 <Sketch> ah
Dec 19 22:38:39 <Sketch> could use a usb hub, but thats more pieces
Dec 19 22:39:29 <technomancy> yeah, and serial is much easier to use w/ electronics
Dec 19 22:40:55 <technomancy> ooh; I found a mirror
Dec 19 22:40:59 <technomancy> http://mirror.hentges.net/www.openzaurus.org/3.5.4/feed/base/
Dec 19 22:41:13 <technomancy> now I just need to figure out how to edit my sources list with vi.
Dec 19 22:41:30 <Sketch> true
Dec 19 22:41:37 <Sketch> hehe
Dec 19 22:41:53 <Sketch> theres always sed ;)
Dec 19 22:42:23 <technomancy> also "cat > base-feed.conf"
Dec 19 22:42:47 <Sketch> i usd to use it before i learned some basic vi
Dec 19 22:44:11 <technomancy> woo hoo; downloading
Dec 19 22:44:24 <Sketch> btw, have you tried the angstrom mailing list?
Dec 19 22:44:37 <technomancy> not yet; should have though.
Dec 19 22:44:45 <technomancy> will give it a go if this fails
Dec 19 22:45:17 <Sketch> i know therecwere some people trying to get collie working...and the channel has been really dead lately
Dec 19 22:46:01 <Sketch> #zaurus too...guess theres not that much intetest anymore
Dec 19 22:46:12 <Sketch> interest
Dec 19 22:47:12 <technomancy> uh oh... this ncurses is really broken
Dec 19 22:47:18 <technomancy> seeing $<5>><3> everywhere
Dec 19 22:47:47 <technomancy> but zile still beats vi
Dec 19 23:00:06 <technomancy> yeah, full Emacs needs more than 16mb
Dec 19 23:00:09 <technomancy> but I think I'm in good shape
Dec 19 23:00:25 <technomancy> would like 23, but 22 is ok
Dec 19 23:48:07 <archae0pteryx> there microemacs..
Dec 19 23:48:15 <archae0pteryx> I built it for maemo 1x
Dec 19 23:58:26 <Sketch> i suspect he wants lisp ;)
Dec 19 23:59:11 <Sketch> since he is an #emacs regular
Dec 19 23:59:31 <Sketch> and he mentioned using ruby instead of emacs
Dec 19 23:59:40 <Sketch> unless there's an editor named ruby i am unaware of...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 20 02:59:57 2008