**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 31 02:59:58 2008 Dec 31 11:07:34 hello guys! i don't get from the site resourses it so i'll just ask: is OE a distro or a build system? If angstrom is fully integrated into OE then can I consider Angstrom is just a package pack for OE distro + a couple of guys working on specific hardware device support in OE? Or do I miss smth? Dec 31 11:08:27 I've read FAQ and other docs but just don't get a clue Dec 31 11:09:08 as I can see, angstrom is the only "supported" distro pack for OE so can a person consider it as an official one package pack for OE? Dec 31 11:09:11 angstrom is a distro built from the OE build system Dec 31 11:09:47 johnx, so all of its code is integrated into OE? Dec 31 11:11:09 yes, the package build recipes are in the OE code base Dec 31 11:12:41 OE is just a build system? Dec 31 11:13:10 yes. but it's a very complete build system. :) Dec 31 11:13:49 ok, I get it. I just thought OE is considered as a distro itself Dec 31 11:14:14 it's more a metadistro than a distro Dec 31 11:15:22 well it's a build system that includes all the code to build at least one distribution...I guess it's kind of a meta distro... Dec 31 11:32:12 Gentoo is also named "metadistro". But "Gentoo/FreeBSD" or "Gentoo/MacOSX" are developed in single project though angstrom is separated from OE. Dec 31 11:33:01 (or that's how it looks from the first-time Angstrom site visitor) Dec 31 11:33:27 yeah, this is kind of different I think. because OE doesn't really specify as much about the kind of distro you can build with it as gentoo does Dec 31 11:34:30 hm. how does gentoo specify it?.. Dec 31 11:35:07 a person can build anything he can with gentoo I think Dec 31 11:35:41 I mean, with gentoo you're going to be using the gentoo package format, with OE you can choose whatever Dec 31 11:36:25 .deb based, .ipk based, I don't know if there's .rpm support right now, but adding it wouldn't change things very much. it would just be adding a new package format Dec 31 11:39:21 ow, i get it :) Dec 31 11:39:39 thanks for clarifications Dec 31 11:39:50 sure, I know it was confusing when I started looking at it Dec 31 11:40:53 hi, anyone know how to get rid of altboot, i want to put my collie back to the sharp rom to sell, but all i get is an e2fsck error, and it after much rom flashing it looks like altboot is not being removed when i flash with an older rom Dec 31 11:41:25 if altboot isn't removed than the initrd.bin isn't being flashed correctly Dec 31 11:42:00 is there anything i should look for? Dec 31 11:42:31 i have used 2 different cf cards, to try that theory out Dec 31 11:42:35 make sure that you named the files right on the CF card Dec 31 11:44:13 fairly confident of that the sharp rom is ospack and not zimage and initrd.bin Dec 31 11:44:29 ah. right. strange then Dec 31 11:44:45 i get a sharp logo before the error Dec 31 11:44:50 but altboot is just a fake /sbin/init not anything at a lower level Dec 31 11:45:00 then dumped to the repair fs console Dec 31 11:45:00 so the sharp logo is probably part of the kernel Dec 31 11:45:29 whats the dev of the internal rom drive? Dec 31 11:46:04 /dev/mtdblock Dec 31 11:46:20 though what partition it is you want... I'm not sure Dec 31 11:46:29 i'm wondering if a dd of that and reflash might fix Dec 31 11:46:41 ... Dec 31 11:47:01 I wouldn't try it if you're not sure Dec 31 11:47:24 mucking around with "bare" NAND devices when you're not sure where the bootloader is stored isn't the best policy Dec 31 11:47:44 not sure what else to try, i just get a black screen with other roms Dec 31 11:47:59 try flashing something in a zImage and initrd.bin Dec 31 11:48:03 see if that works Dec 31 11:48:06 do you know where i could get a v1 of the sharp rom? Dec 31 11:48:11 no idea Dec 31 11:48:28 haven't touched sharp ROM since openzaurus 3.2 or so :) Dec 31 11:48:28 all the zug stuff is missing :( Dec 31 11:48:48 and it's so old all the ftp sites seem to have gone as well Dec 31 11:49:14 i can't even find a copy of the tkcrom Dec 31 11:50:34 yeah. lots of painful transitions in zaurus history :/ Dec 31 11:51:05 i have an eeepc now but really miss the zaurus size Dec 31 11:51:26 I went the other way. I picked up a Nokia N800, but my pandora is on pre-order :D Dec 31 11:52:05 I use the zaurus now for mostly command line stuff. once I find a nice console RSS reader I'll be quite happy Dec 31 11:53:21 lol, i use a mac mainly but the eee is great for irc and the fiddling i do, the inbuilt 3g has saved my life a few times fixing machines and needing a driver with no other inet near Dec 31 11:53:50 I'd dearly love a phone I could tether my n800 to Dec 31 11:54:02 won't be for a while though :/ Dec 31 11:55:06 the n800 will take any bluetooth phone for dialup won't it? Dec 31 11:55:20 yeah, with BT DUN or BT PAN Dec 31 11:55:41 there are phones that are a pain to use of course, but most things that tether to desktop/laptop linux can be made to work Dec 31 11:56:34 i am a little lucky my work pay for 2Gb download a month on my work phone and as i can use it for personal use i have moved my personal contract to a 3Gb a month mobile broadband contract Dec 31 11:57:12 both are fair use so i really can be mobile as much as i want Dec 31 11:57:41 yeah, that'll be my next phone :) Dec 31 11:58:16 I'm sitting out the end of a 2 year contract then moving pretty soon, so I'm just not worrying about it right now. mostly I'm eyeing which android phone looks the most open Dec 31 11:58:38 or which one will be most open and will be released before June Dec 31 11:59:15 there is only the t-mobile one at the moment in the uk Dec 31 12:00:05 yeah. should be some new ones in the first half of next year though Dec 31 12:00:44 as long as they work out the kinks it should make for a good platform Dec 31 12:01:35 yeah. I just can't really see using any platform for a smartphone except Android. If they don't work out enough of the kinks to my satisfaction I'll just get a dumbphone with BT tethering Dec 31 12:02:58 fair enough, i have an e90 but don't rate it. like the look of the n97 but after nokia bought qt i'm wondering if symbian may get a linux core soon Dec 31 12:03:47 hmm...probably what they're thinking but they think looooong term Dec 31 12:04:21 true, at least most of the noka stuff just works Dec 31 12:04:58 they have a new maemo linux release for whatever their next "Internet Tablet" will be called coming in june 2009 or so and they're working on the roadmap for the big release after that Dec 31 12:05:39 their transition strategy for S60 is probably QT on S60 for a couple years, then *maybe*, *maybe* switch to QT on linux Dec 31 12:06:17 the ground work is there for both Dec 31 12:06:24 after the failed green phone Dec 31 12:06:46 I'm glad Nokia picked up Trolltech. Dec 31 12:07:13 i'm glad they didn't just go to the wall Dec 31 12:07:30 wether nokia was the right buyer time will tell Dec 31 12:07:43 yeah, with the very limited programming I've done, Qt is *very, very* nice Dec 31 12:08:03 judging by Qt support in maemo linux already, I think that things will work really nicely Dec 31 12:08:59 yes i did struggle with the choice of eee vs nokia tablet but the standard pc won out becasue it was so flexible Dec 31 12:09:02 and cost Dec 31 12:09:41 ah, I grabbed my N800 for $260USD right after launch in March 2007 Dec 31 12:09:58 eeePC wasn't down to that price til much later, IIRC Dec 31 12:10:14 though I enjoy hacking around on ARM devices :) Dec 31 12:12:17 hense in here :) i got my current eeepc901go free with the mobile contract but my 701 was about $480USD when i bought at launch Dec 31 12:14:07 In the end I'm really happy with my N800 but I *do* keep eyeing the HP netbook Dec 31 12:14:24 the mini 1000 even their original mini-note thing Dec 31 12:15:16 the oridginal is via c7 powered and is sloooow Dec 31 12:15:26 well built but to slow Dec 31 12:16:05 I don't mind running cut-down linux distros Dec 31 12:16:09 i have a dell mini 9 which is nice but they are all very similar just keyboards set them appart Dec 31 12:16:17 webkit-based browser, console, and IRC and I'm happy :) Dec 31 12:16:31 yeah, the keyboard on the hp is what's doing it for me Dec 31 12:16:45 got a chance to play with them all at a store recently and it really stands out with that keyboard Dec 31 12:16:45 yes but the hp is the same monies as atom powered devices with better battery life Dec 31 12:16:58 keyboard, keyboard, keyboard :) Dec 31 12:17:32 lol did you notice the missing function keys? Dec 31 12:17:51 even with the fn key they only goto f10 Dec 31 12:18:09 ah, meh. never touch them myself Dec 31 12:18:26 they could just take them off for all I care Dec 31 12:18:32 they're too far away to hit anyways Dec 31 12:18:44 lol Dec 31 12:19:43 plus it looks nice :D Dec 31 12:19:43 they are down to £170 here (i can't do convertion very well :) ) Dec 31 12:20:08 they do look the part and if they had atom chips i would use them at work Dec 31 12:20:12 $250 wow Dec 31 12:20:13 nice Dec 31 12:20:24 well, the 1000 has the atom Dec 31 12:20:38 I think it's called the 700 in Europe for some reason Dec 31 12:20:43 shame about the fancy case tho Dec 31 12:20:57 that nice serious aluminum case? yeah Dec 31 12:21:10 I was also really attracted the the "tough enough for students" design Dec 31 12:21:27 ...johnx, and a too little battery Dec 31 12:22:00 waiting for the 1000 w/ a 6 cell battery and linux any week now Dec 31 12:22:14 netbook with 3 hours of battery? f*ck you, hp :) Dec 31 12:22:18 then I'll wait to have $3xx to spend :) Dec 31 12:22:36 booxter, i'll stick with my 5+ hrs thanks Dec 31 12:22:38 johnx, hm, I heard that because of slim design there is a little chance to get 6 cells on mini 1000 Dec 31 12:22:42 am i wrong? Dec 31 12:22:49 er, hp said they'd do it I thought Dec 31 12:22:50 no i have a 901go Dec 31 12:22:56 just a matter of waiting Dec 31 12:23:18 the 6 cell for the hp is unlikely, Dec 31 12:23:43 an after market battery possible but an hp one unlikely Dec 31 12:24:00 they are planning a replacement already with touch screen Dec 31 12:24:05 I'll find you the comment from HP in a sec Dec 31 12:24:09 ow, i think things changed a bit from the time i read about the device :) Dec 31 12:24:42 johnx, how long should i wait for this generic must-have feature?:) Dec 31 12:24:58 IIRC, wait until january :D Dec 31 12:25:07 if I were HP I'd probably save it for CES Dec 31 12:25:35 i'm going to buy netbook for my wife a month later. I thought about mini 1000 but battery... Will HP put 6 cells in it till Jan? Dec 31 12:25:44 CES -? Dec 31 12:25:54 well that's what I thought I remembered hearing from engadget Dec 31 12:26:02 not sure if it was a rumor or something they heard from HP Dec 31 12:26:07 I'm trying to find it actually Dec 31 12:26:13 but engadget is a pain to search :/ Dec 31 12:27:21 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7556806272.html Dec 31 12:27:27 http://www.liliputing.com/2008/12/hp-mini-1000-review.html Dec 31 12:27:32 mentioned in the review Dec 31 12:27:33 it's said that 6 cells are in Jan :) Dec 31 12:27:48 ok, i'll wait for it, but not too long ;) Dec 31 12:28:07 yeah, if it doesn't appear at the same time as the linux based one, I'd start having doubts Dec 31 12:31:05 kbd is really good on this model + good screen and - yeap - design! Dec 31 12:31:26 but they killed 2133 with via, now they are killing 1000 with low battery Dec 31 12:31:43 yeah, in my 1 minute typing test it just feels a lot better than just about anything else Dec 31 12:32:35 yeah, even generic laptop - elitebook 6930p - kbd sucks if you compare :( Dec 31 12:32:36 reminded me a lot of the macbook or sony keyboards in a very positive way Dec 31 19:24:55 i think 'zune' should be the replacement for the term 'brick' Jan 01 02:25:32 Sketch, just in terms of self bricking Jan 01 02:25:53 such as: "I think my collie pulled a zune or something. Won't start at all...nm there it goes." Jan 01 02:31:33 Happy New Year All ! Jan 01 02:31:59 happy new year's z728c3k :D Jan 01 02:32:19 you're late to the party though. I just got up Jan 01 02:35:01 hmmmm hahahha Jan 01 02:35:11 hello johnx Jan 01 02:36:03 what time now in your country john ? here 9.40am Jan 01 02:36:04 johnx: ah, true Jan 01 02:36:58 11:36AM Jan 01 02:37:56 2 hour diff perhaps you in asia too? or australia? Jan 01 02:39:07 in Japan. and you? Jan 01 02:39:46 ohh japan great, me in indonesia :) Jan 01 02:43:27 do you make a living in J or studying or maybe just for vacation? Jan 01 02:44:26 heh...barely making a living. it's an expensive country Jan 01 02:45:17 hhahahha Jan 01 02:45:59 do you like living there john Jan 01 02:46:22 I really do. been here for 1.5 years, but I'm headed back to the US in april Jan 01 02:46:38 i ever dream to go to japan to find 'a new hope' :) Jan 01 02:47:12 and go back to j again ? Jan 01 02:47:34 Maybe several years later. I really don't know Jan 01 02:48:35 hmmm sadly,,,,, this job thing ... needed you to left Jan 01 02:48:59 er...no. I'm choosing to leave. :) I like Japan but I really miss the US Jan 01 02:50:09 and my Japanese isn't that great so it's hard to get a good job here. Jan 01 02:50:09 then it is your choice, no sad then :) Jan 01 02:50:42 yeah, actually looking forward to it. I'm sure I'll miss Japan when I leave though :) Jan 01 02:50:45 Anyways, I'll be back in a bit Jan 01 02:52:09 john from your calculation what is the cost of living (simple one) for a month there? Jan 01 02:53:05 it really depends on "where" Jan 01 02:54:20 and if you want to have fun and eat at restaurants Jan 01 02:55:17 but the very basics: maybe 100,000JPY to 150,000JPY Jan 01 02:55:27 anyways, gotta head out. back tomorrow Jan 01 02:55:51 a simple life, i can eat the cheapest one, restaurant is not an option sure, maybe in sub of tokyo or akibara Jan 01 02:56:13 ahaha...for that? 150,000 - 200,000 Jan 01 02:56:20 hahahahah Jan 01 02:56:49 ok johnx see you ..... take care Jan 01 02:57:01 thanks a lot Jan 01 02:57:10 I guess it depends on what you mean by "suburb" :) look at Tokyo on google maps and find the closest suburb to Akihabara :D Jan 01 02:57:17 it's an hour away Jan 01 02:57:25 sure, no prob Jan 01 02:57:26 * johnx heads out **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 01 02:59:57 2009