**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 30 02:59:58 2012
May 30 03:52:57 * mranostay yawns
May 30 04:57:05 <prpplague> koen: hehe i heard back from vtech, they are not amused, hehe
May 30 05:08:18 <koen> prpplague: about gpl or doom?
May 30 05:18:53 <prpplague> koen: both, hehe
May 30 05:23:39 <_av500_> the gpl of doom
May 30 05:24:01 <_av500_> prpplague: a wonder they let you buy at walmart at all....
May 30 05:27:29 <dm8tbr> which device is this about? :)
May 30 05:52:07 <koen> dm8tbr: https://plus.google.com/101339419642360856354/posts/frvE7UCxux2
May 30 05:57:55 <aholler> oh, he likes to shoot at walls ;)
May 30 06:20:18 <mranostay> heh group photo at LC
May 30 06:20:34 * mranostay plays spot the geeks
May 30 06:37:09 <av500> mranostay: spot the _troll_
May 30 06:40:47 * mranostay looks for bald heads in the photo
May 30 06:40:49 * _troll_ hides
May 30 06:40:51 <mranostay> oh hi panto :)
May 30 06:41:07 * panto head-butts mranostay 
May 30 06:42:28 <mranostay> that hurts
May 30 06:44:01 <av500> _troll_ is hiding as usual, lest he work for intel one day.....
May 30 06:45:40 <mranostay> hehe
May 30 06:45:49 <mranostay> why would you want to work for intel? :)
May 30 06:46:23 <mranostay> wait anyone logging this channel?
May 30 06:46:59 <av500> yeah, intel is dead
May 30 06:47:04 <ynezz> hm boring, everybody with same color badges, they has no VIP troll badges at Linaro? :p
May 30 06:47:22 <av500> ynezz: no, its a socialist love fest
May 30 06:47:37 * _troll_ is wearing an intel t-shirt at linaro connect
May 30 06:48:35 * av500 pats _troll_ on the back
May 30 06:51:50 <aholler> 3 women ;)
May 30 06:52:31 <ynezz> hm, I counted 9
May 30 06:53:03 <aholler> maybe, I only see 3 on that photo. but nine wouldn't make much a difference ;)
May 30 06:54:24 <av500> omg, gender inequality in the tech sector
May 30 06:55:01 <mru> there are more than 3 here for sure
May 30 06:58:29 <aholler> av500: yes, women are in a much better position
May 30 07:01:12 <aholler> ;)
May 30 07:11:32 <mranostay> yeah well dealing with all the nerds that is questionable
May 30 07:12:44 <aholler> they don't have to, just climb up the ladder fast.
May 30 07:16:13 * koen realizes a big part of the free tshirt pile in his wardrobe were sponsered by intel
May 30 07:16:44 <dm8tbr> yeah, they seem to have quite the budget for this. domination by output. :)
May 30 07:16:45 <stuk_gen> koen: someone have release a patch for the netbase4.7 ?
May 30 07:44:41 <ykmag> I have two Beaglebone lcd cape's, one is running ArchLinux one Ångström. I have big problems controlling the lcd-backlight. On the Ångström one the baclight turns off after a few seconds after boot. On the ArchLinux one it never turns on. I have tried a lot of different tricks in /sys/class/backlight/whatever but are still unable to turn on the bl. Anyone have something to share?
May 30 07:51:43 <stuk_gen> the SRC_URI[md5sum] in the recipes is the sum of the md5 for every files in the SRC_URI?
May 30 07:56:02 <aholler> ykmag: setterm -blank 0
May 30 07:56:28 <aholler> or /bin/echo -e "\33[9;0]" > /dev/console if setterm isn't available
May 30 08:00:19 <ykmag> Will try
May 30 08:04:20 <ykmag> The setterm is available, bu I have to get back to the result as I just realized that even if I have acces to the hardware (via ssh) I have to be physicaly close to verify, sorry.
May 30 08:05:25 <aholler> on arch the problem is likely missing patches for the kernel
May 30 08:06:14 <ykmag> Ok, do you know witch patces that is?
May 30 08:06:48 <aholler> no
May 30 08:07:16 <ykmag> I am running version 3.2.11
May 30 08:57:11 <lpi> Hi everybody!
May 30 09:03:21 <aholler> hmm, dell and arm: http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/campaigns/project-copper.aspx
May 30 09:04:22 <av500> darm
May 30 09:07:15 <mru> meh, marvell
May 30 09:07:44 <aholler> gbit-if and sata
May 30 09:08:08 <aholler> therefor no ti
May 30 09:12:57 <aholler> hmm, a 4core cortex-a15.
May 30 09:36:12 <tichku> how do i load ubuntu in my beagle board xm.....any1 please help...?
May 30 09:37:44 <LetoThe2nd> tichku: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard_Ubuntu_%26_DSP_From_Sources
May 30 09:38:10 <av500> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP
May 30 09:38:17 <av500> LetoThe2nd: dsp?
May 30 09:38:17 <LetoThe2nd> av500: or that ;)
May 30 09:38:30 <LetoThe2nd> av500: the title says it. not me.
May 30 09:38:53 <LetoThe2nd> hm, robert gordon. rings a bell?
May 30 09:39:56 <av500> Flash Gordon?
May 30 09:40:05 <av500> or Nand Gordon?
May 30 09:40:13 <LetoThe2nd> hrhr
May 30 09:40:44 <mru> gordon freeman
May 30 09:41:03 <LetoThe2nd> mru: nah, thats just azeem in disguise.
May 30 09:41:23 <tichku> av500 which image should i choose for my beagle board xm as i have to run a similink model on beagle board hardware ....
May 30 09:41:39 <tichku> 11.04 will do the work..?
May 30 09:42:26 <av500> tichku: use 11.10
May 30 09:43:13 <tichku> is there any extra firmware i need too install to matlab model..?
May 30 09:43:28 <tichku> or only 11.10 ubuntu will work..?
May 30 09:44:02 <av500> maybe ask matlab?
May 30 09:44:57 <av500> and/or try it out
May 30 10:34:38 <arti_t> from where i can get the TRM of beagle-xm?
May 30 10:53:39 <lpi> arti_t: http://www.google.co.uk/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=7&sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=beagleboard#hl=fr&gs_nf=1&pq=beagleboard%20manual&cp=13&gs_id=17&xhr=t&q=beagleboard%20xM%20manual&pf=p&client=ubuntu&hs=RN2&channel=cs&sclient=psy-ab&oq=beagleboard+xmanual&aq=0L&aqi=g-L1&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=831dbb3f0c72d4bf&biw=1161&bih=683
May 30 10:56:14 <arti_t> lpi, tks but those links show only system reference manual and other getting started guides but not TRM
May 30 11:02:04 <mdp> the TRM for the SoC on the xM?
May 30 11:02:15 <arti_t> mdp, yes
May 30 11:02:15 <aholler> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=omap+3730+trm
May 30 11:02:24 <arti_t> for dm3730
May 30 11:03:33 <mdp> http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/sprugn4p/sprugn4p.pdf
May 30 11:05:09 * mdp bows to aholler's google-fu respectfully.
May 30 11:07:03 <aholler> years of experience
May 30 11:08:00 <arti_t> aholler, mdp , thnks a ton
May 30 11:09:53 * aholler throws some penguins around
May 30 11:12:20 <aholler> 5 calories each
May 30 11:13:30 <lpi> xD
May 30 11:13:54 * mdp dunks one in coffee and munches
May 30 12:38:50 <Sh0rtWave> Hi all
May 30 12:39:22 <RITRedbeard> hi
May 30 12:39:49 <Sh0rtWave> Having a bit of a problem
May 30 12:40:01 <aholler> get a byte
May 30 12:40:20 <Sh0rtWave> I've got what appears to be Errata #8, but this board rev shouldn't have it
May 30 12:40:29 <av500> which is?
May 30 12:40:39 <Sh0rtWave> C
May 30 12:40:57 <Sh0rtWave> I'm using an FTDI FT232 breakout board to connect to my beagle
May 30 12:41:00 <ogra_> it is the errata before #9 i would guess
May 30 12:41:02 <Sh0rtWave> beagle xM that is.
May 30 12:41:11 <Sh0rtWave> Serial Errata #8?
May 30 12:41:19 <Sh0rtWave> Serial output, but can't send characters?
May 30 12:41:42 <Sh0rtWave> The other wierd thing is that the screen always shows the U-boot prompt mutiple times
May 30 12:42:25 <Sh0rtWave> like I see the U-Boot 2011.03-rc-1-00000-g9a3cc57-dirty (Apr 01 2011 - 17:412#### part like  8 times
May 30 12:42:33 <Sh0rtWave> Just in starting it up
May 30 12:42:52 <Sh0rtWave> I get 3 OMAP3 beagleboard.org # prompts
May 30 12:44:43 <Sh0rtWave> And of course I can't interact with it at all
May 30 12:44:50 <Sh0rtWave> so aSo I'm a bit dead in the water
May 30 12:46:22 <aholler> where do you have connected that breakout?
May 30 12:49:53 <aholler> just as info, the serial plug on the beagle operates with normal rs232 levels (+-12V) and not with TTL (5V) or even 3.3V.
May 30 12:56:13 <riskable> I don't understand these hardware companies violating the GPL on their devices...  What's the worst that could happen?  More sales?!?  LOL!
May 30 12:57:28 <nextime> probably they are more oriented to OEM than customer direct selling, and some OEM company require they don't open specs
May 30 12:57:50 <nextime> ( not the only one reason, but one of the reasons. )
May 30 12:57:54 <aholler> they paid money for the sw and think they have an advantage against other companies if others can't use their sw.
May 30 12:58:26 <riskable> Linksys released a router running Linux...  The infamous WRT54g.  It resulted in a friggin' LAWSUIT that was eventually "settled" by the company releasing the full source code.  The end result?  The Linksys WRT54g became the best-selling consumer router of all time
May 30 12:58:40 <ogra_> also the revenue they make might just outsmart the costs for a lawsuit
May 30 12:59:16 <riskable> So to summarize:  Open Source == More Sales
May 30 12:59:29 <riskable> ...and when you're the first you get the biggest win
May 30 13:03:08 <av500> riskable: if it was so easy
May 30 13:03:18 <av500> the average customer does not care for open source
May 30 13:42:12 <cboyd> I recently built the systemd-gnome-image for the beagleboard.  When I start X, I get error messages stating that the extmod, dbe, dri, dri2, glx, and report module does not exist. I found the extmod, dbe, dri, dri2, and glx modules in the xserver-extensions* packages.  Does anyone know which package provides the report module?
May 30 13:43:22 <stuk_gen> cboyd: /etc/init.d/gdm start ?
May 30 13:46:21 <cboyd> stuk_gen: I did start the gnome windows manager and my desktop works. I was just curious if these error messages had any side effects?
May 30 13:47:05 <cboyd> stuk_gen: By the way, thanks for the help yesterday.  My keyboard and mouse now work.:-D
May 30 13:49:59 <av500> ha, found a _troll_ https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BpsoBHcpWCk/T8PyHSKPQEI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/6Bcldq6ZLfE/s1503/img_0001_01.jpg
May 30 13:50:19 <koen> riskable: that linksys case also resulted in linksys/cisco dropping all linux products and replacing them with vxworks
May 30 13:50:38 <koen> riskable: ask Rob Landley (if you can spare a few hours)
May 30 13:53:11 <av500> koen: :)
May 30 13:54:35 <riskable> koen: I'm aware of that.  I am also aware of the fact that the reason why they did that wasn't because their routers became best-sellers.  It was because their low-margin, consumer routers started to eat into their high-margin business router sales
May 30 13:55:08 <riskable> So if you don't have a high-margin business-class product competing with a lower-margin consumer product this won't be an issue for your company
May 30 13:56:18 <av500> why they did what?
May 30 13:56:28 <av500> replace linux with vwxwors?
May 30 13:56:33 <riskable> Why buy a $1500 Cisco small office router (and the $$$ to pay someone to set it up and manage it) when you can just buy a $80 router and get something that is equally--if not more so--capable?
May 30 13:56:41 <riskable> av500: Yes
May 30 13:56:45 <av500> ???
May 30 13:57:00 <av500> the 80$ router got vxworks instead of linux
May 30 13:57:05 <riskable> Yep
May 30 13:57:10 <av500> so?
May 30 13:57:20 <av500> what has that to do with the $1500 router?
May 30 13:57:24 <agmlego> vxworks < linux.
May 30 13:57:28 <riskable> Cisco did that precisely so people couldn't load their own firmware on it that would make it do all the things their more expensive hardware could do
May 30 13:57:38 <av500> nonsense
May 30 13:57:49 * ogra_ would assume a $1500 to run IOS 
May 30 13:57:56 <riskable> They also reduced the RAM from 4MB to 2MB... Not to cut costs but to make the routers less capable!
May 30 13:57:57 <ogra_> +router
May 30 13:58:01 <av500> and have more than 4 ports...
May 30 13:58:13 <ogra_> yep
May 30 13:58:18 <av500> riskable: they reduced the mem because vxworks needed less
May 30 13:58:21 <av500> its called cost cutting
May 30 13:58:48 <riskable> Well, back in the day a $1500 router from Cisco only had 8 ports.  So just buy two WRT54g routers at $160
May 30 14:00:39 <riskable> av500: VXWorks needed less, yes.  But it would be a more capable device at 4MB.  Cisco knew that even if they shipped with VXWorks that hackers would be able to replace it with Linux.  However, if they dropped the RAM down to 2MB then that would be more difficult and would artificially limit what the routers could do since you couldn't load, say, Quagga on it
May 30 14:01:21 <av500> well, being sued by the SFLC was not helpfull in keeping linux
May 30 14:01:32 <LetoThe2nd> sounds mostly like "$COMPANY did what they like and not what i like, so lets go ranting."
May 30 14:01:51 <riskable> LetoThe2nd: It is a matter of history
May 30 14:02:01 <riskable> ...and control
May 30 14:02:28 <LetoThe2nd> riskable: its a matter of "who cares", nobody forces you to buy cisco if you don't like their policy
May 30 14:02:41 <riskable> If you ship a device that can be trivially modified to do all sorts of things you never intended then you've lost control
May 30 14:03:02 <av500> no
May 30 14:03:14 <av500> coz 99% of your customers dont care
May 30 14:03:36 <av500> all ipod/iphone/ipads are routed
May 30 14:03:40 <av500> has apple lost control?
May 30 14:03:41 <riskable> av500: That's only partially true...  Most people will buy what is recommended buy geeks who DO care
May 30 14:04:02 <LetoThe2nd> riskable: totally wrong.
May 30 14:04:07 <av500> indeed
May 30 14:04:21 <av500> its a geek distortion field
May 30 14:04:33 <LetoThe2nd> riskable: people will buy what is the most shiny, cheapest thing with the most nudes in the merchandise.
May 30 14:04:44 <av500> lie I do
May 30 14:04:47 <av500> Like I do
May 30 14:04:48 <riskable> Why would anyone buy a WRT54g over some Netgear device back in the day?  Because all the geeky reviews said to buy the WRT!  Also, there were loads and loads of articles covering how you can make it do all sorts of things.  It was all over the net at the time
May 30 14:04:49 <LetoThe2nd> same here.
May 30 14:04:53 <av500> well, lie I do too
May 30 14:04:56 <LetoThe2nd> i like shiny, cheap, and nude.
May 30 14:05:35 <av500> LetoThe2nd: join my ph0rum!
May 30 14:05:40 <LetoThe2nd> riskable: there are exceptions of course, and the wrt54 might have been one. but in the big thing called reality, your logic fails.
May 30 14:05:50 * ogra_ prefers the nudes and just leaves the product be 
May 30 14:06:22 <LetoThe2nd> av500: not a pr0num?
May 30 14:06:54 <aholler> hmm, my msp430-launchpad-usb-pic-programmer seems to work ;)
May 30 14:07:13 <riskable> LetoThe2nd: When a consumer has to buy some essential home appliance they know NOTHING about like a router or, say, a water heater or a dishwasher they will almost always get what is recommended by someone whom they perceive to be an expert
May 30 14:07:27 <LetoThe2nd> riskable: q.e.d.
May 30 14:07:52 <LetoThe2nd> riskable: "perceive to be an expert" != "geeks who DO care"
May 30 14:07:54 <ogra_> note that sales persons are usually seen as experts :)
May 30 14:08:03 <ogra_> by buyers
May 30 14:08:05 <riskable> ogra_: That's how they get ya!
May 30 14:08:19 <riskable> Consumer Reports wouldn't exist if this weren't the case
May 30 14:08:20 <ogra_> thats how the world works
May 30 14:08:40 <regnirps> "No one ever got fired for buying IBM equipment"
May 30 14:08:40 <ogra_> and companies usually buy what these sales experts recommend them
May 30 14:08:43 <LetoThe2nd> ogra_: thats exactly what i'm saying. well, they often are experts. in making things shiny and cheap, and sticking pictures of nudes onto it.
May 30 14:09:02 <ogra_> and talking you into buying it :)
May 30 14:09:03 <riskable> http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2007/11/Online_Consumer_Reviews_Impact_Offline_Purchasing_Behavior
May 30 14:09:22 <riskable> Salespeople don't make much of a difference these days though
May 30 14:09:30 <riskable> If they did Best Buy wouldn't be going out of business
May 30 14:10:01 <ogra_> companies rarely just buy network equipment at amazon either though
May 30 14:10:03 <riskable> Even at car dealerships people are snapping photos of the price stickers and doing online comparisons
May 30 14:10:12 <ogra_> at least if the company overcomes a certain size
May 30 14:10:15 <riskable> Companies != consumers
May 30 14:10:24 <riskable> Small businesses, maybe
May 30 14:10:26 <ogra_> but customers :)
May 30 14:10:45 <ogra_> and the ones that count for i.e. a $1500 cisco router
May 30 14:11:10 <ogra_> consumers would never buy such a thing
May 30 14:11:10 <aholler> like american schools?
May 30 14:11:12 <aholler> ;)
May 30 14:12:31 <aholler> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/16/speaking_in_tech_episode_8/
May 30 14:14:41 <riskable> All major problems in IT (in business) are caused by one thing:  Non-technical people making technical decisions
May 30 14:14:55 <riskable> That Register article is a shining example
May 30 14:15:09 <riskable> That rule counts for governments too
May 30 14:17:30 <Sh0rtWave> riskable: yes
May 30 14:17:33 <Sh0rtWave> riskable: so very true
May 30 14:31:44 <av500> http://donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/raspberry-pi-7-reasons-why-it-wont-work.html
May 30 14:33:59 <prp^2> av500: hehe
May 30 14:34:03 <prp^2> av500: just posted
May 30 14:34:39 <mdp> 7 reasons yet they ignore the fact that "it's got electrolytes!" :P
May 30 14:34:52 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: hehe
May 30 14:35:34 <nextime> uhmm, i don't agree with this post, no one point is correct in my opinion
May 30 14:36:12 <mdp> LOL… "Interest has largely been from ageing men who love to tinker."
May 30 14:36:13 <nextime> and the same can apply to beagle*, arduino, and many more things
May 30 14:36:33 <LetoThe2nd> and it is not even friday yet.
May 30 14:37:27 <koen> LetoThe2nd: what!?!?
May 30 14:37:33 <arcanescu> riskable: did your router problem solve?
May 30 14:38:06 <LetoThe2nd> koen: well we've already had cisco-rant, now we've got rpi...
May 30 14:38:11 <mdp> not friday?!??
May 30 14:38:28 <LetoThe2nd> mdp: yeah boss seems to disagree with friday.
May 30 14:38:58 <koen> let's call it Freiabend
May 30 14:39:11 <mdp> LetoThe2nd: same here
May 30 14:39:38 * koen never understood the logic behind 'sonnabend'
May 30 14:39:39 <LetoThe2nd> hm.
May 30 14:39:59 <LetoThe2nd> koen: who needs logic if you can have sonnabendbier?
May 30 14:40:10 <koen> true
May 30 14:40:31 <koen> although with the current heat here I'm going for a cider
May 30 14:40:31 * ogra_ wants two and only half logic
May 30 14:40:51 <LetoThe2nd> koen: hm no cider here.
May 30 14:41:14 <koen> closest thing to apfelschorle you can buy in .nl
May 30 14:43:19 <mdp> koen, they never taught us sonnabend in .usian german class..interesting
May 30 14:44:06 <koen> mdp: AIUI it's an eastgerman thing
May 30 14:44:18 * koen looks around for actual germans to confirm
May 30 14:44:34 <av500> no
May 30 14:45:15 <mdp> koen, the intertubes claim is north and DDR yeah
May 30 14:45:44 <mdp> koen, I defer to actual germans as well :)
May 30 14:46:23 <av500> so yes, DDR and other, not just DDR
May 30 14:46:38 <av500> its basically the same thing as new years eve
May 30 14:46:46 <av500> here its sunday eve
May 30 14:46:47 <mdp> got it
May 30 14:47:13 <mdp> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sonnabend is what I found
May 30 14:48:19 <av500> nextime: you are right, a lot applies to beagle*, arduino, and many more things
May 30 14:48:36 <av500> but none of them claimed to "revolutionize teaching kids to program"
May 30 14:49:00 <mdp> av500, I was impressed that an early commenter quickly mentioned scratch
May 30 14:51:09 <aholler> install logo
May 30 14:51:20 <av500> no need to install
May 30 14:51:24 <av500> run logo in a browser
May 30 14:51:30 <av500> and teach kids
May 30 14:51:33 <aholler> install browser ;)
May 30 14:51:43 <av500> no need to make a mess in the living room with the family flatscreen
May 30 14:52:04 <av500> and teach kids to use "dd" first...
May 30 14:52:20 <av500> even "professionals" fail at that here...
May 30 14:52:20 <aholler> give them lego, they've done it right
May 30 14:52:22 <mdp> scratch is just modern logo..agreed..I was impressed other people recognize that the tools to educate are already sitting here waiting
May 30 14:52:25 <jsabeaudry> This is how you teach kids how to program: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table
May 30 14:52:26 <koen> if it were friday I'd refer to it as double d
May 30 14:52:40 <av500> jsabeaudry: sorry, I am running kickblocker
May 30 14:53:12 <mdp> aholler, in my area, mindstorms is how most kids learn how to program first…easy, just like scratch/logo.
May 30 14:53:19 <av500> ah, that stupid thing
May 30 14:53:26 <mdp> I mean, at least in the sanctioned school programs
May 30 14:53:52 <av500> yes, very helpful to people that write 10 line lisp functions mostly....
May 30 14:53:58 <koen> the lesser technical studies get mindstorms as programming course in their first year
May 30 14:54:04 <koen> at the local uni
May 30 14:54:10 <av500> nice
May 30 14:54:14 <aholler> jupp, the sw for lego is really good for beginners
May 30 14:54:28 <koen> what's the name again
May 30 14:54:29 <koen> lejos?
May 30 14:54:33 <koen> that java thing
May 30 14:54:37 <aholler> yes
May 30 14:54:45 <koen> leftMotor.drive();
May 30 14:54:48 <av500> imho the only thing a programming course needs to achieve is that people realize that the machines only do things they were programmed for (hopefully)
May 30 14:55:00 <av500> to lose the fear
May 30 14:55:28 <av500> people that go "OMG, what has it done now" have lost...
May 30 14:55:49 <aholler> there is a bunch of other languages too, but the original lego sw gives fast achievments. click, upload, something happens.
May 30 14:56:32 <koen> if you are into schadenfreude, the medium technial studies had to work with http://www.maplesoft.com/products/Maple/academic/index.aspx as introduction to programming
May 30 14:56:50 <mdp> aholler: and that's the key. the language itself is not important, but learning how to use basic programmatic constructs..conditionals etc...
May 30 14:57:21 <mdp> aholler: and then there's the tie-in to the series that av500 posted before…"learn <foo> the hard way"…encouragement to try shit and break it or succeed
May 30 14:57:35 <mdp> got to have fast turnaround for that
May 30 15:00:02 <av500> from all the non-programming people I see that they are all "afraid" around a computer
May 30 15:00:08 <av500> afraid to break something
May 30 15:00:18 <av500> and afraid to not know why something happened
May 30 15:00:28 * koen has fond memories of the first year EE labs
May 30 15:00:31 <av500> as if the computer would act randomly
May 30 15:00:39 <av500> which it does not (mostly)
May 30 15:00:40 <koen> if you did something wrong the opamp would explode
May 30 15:00:44 <ogra_> well, on the Pi its at least cheap to break it ... probably thats the idea behind it
May 30 15:00:44 <koen> instant feedback
May 30 15:00:56 * mdp files light-table in the heresy folder
May 30 15:01:20 <av500> mdp: I filed it under hilarious
May 30 15:01:55 <mdp> $280k hilarious even
May 30 15:02:06 <F2> hello guys
May 30 15:02:17 <Russ> koen, crying students?
May 30 15:02:27 <F2> BeagleBone does not ship with lshw pre-installed. Anyone know the name of the Angstrom package containing it ?
May 30 15:02:29 <Russ> koen, in the fetal position clutching a breadboard?
May 30 15:02:30 <av500> frying students?
May 30 15:02:39 <av500> F2: lswhat?
May 30 15:02:52 <LetoThe2nd> av500: lssomething
May 30 15:03:03 <av500> most of the hw is visible to the naked eye
May 30 15:03:35 <riskable> I'm trying to put together a python-matplotlib*.bb but it has numpy as a dependency...  Which is already there in the recipes.  How do I point matplotlib to the precompiled numpy in order to get matplotlib itself to compile/install?
May 30 15:04:07 <av500> F2: I doubt it works nicely on ARM
May 30 15:04:26 <F2> av500: ha. That's what I thought — indeed, I wanted to check how it fails :)
May 30 15:05:42 <riskable> Is there a .bb file I should reference that calls/uses external dependencies like that?
May 30 15:06:55 <mdp> koen, we had morons fall out of their lab chairs discharging big caps in a high school electronics course..good feedback
May 30 15:07:12 <LetoThe2nd> <3 kaboom
May 30 15:07:56 <ogra_> lovely !
May 30 15:08:08 <koen> Russ: no, just the joy of seeing something blow up, but knowing it will be easy to replace
May 30 15:09:12 <koen> mdp: during the induction week we were showed what happens when you connect big polar caps to a wall socket
May 30 15:09:28 <mdp> lol
May 30 15:09:30 <koen> great fun when you don't have to clean up
May 30 15:10:06 * kkeller this sounds like my kind of class 
May 30 15:11:27 <koen> hmmm
May 30 15:11:42 <koen> myg+ feeds looks weird
May 30 15:12:04 <koen> lots of links to http://donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/raspberry-pi-7-reasons-why-it-wont-work.html
May 30 15:14:14 <av500> :)
May 30 15:15:12 <LetoThe2nd> yeah, same here.
May 30 15:15:15 <arcanescu> that link made me happy
May 30 15:15:29 <arcanescu> summarised alot of thoughts I had on rpi
May 30 15:15:42 <arcanescu> (y)
May 30 15:16:26 <arcanescu> "The primary problem is the lack of entrepreneurial spirit and business skills, not coding skills"
May 30 15:19:17 <av500> one does not need an rpi to learn coding
May 30 15:19:30 <av500> one can learn that in a browser if needed
May 30 15:20:14 <ogra_> though i think he is slightly wrong saying the prob isnt HW but SW
May 30 15:20:16 <mdp> av500, which is a good thing when people soon will only have, say, a tablet in their house
May 30 15:20:26 <ogra_> you need HW to build your SW
May 30 15:20:29 <mdp> s/people/normal people/
May 30 15:20:29 <Russ> eevblog has some good slow motion videos of exploding caps
May 30 15:20:32 <ogra_> or to test it etc
May 30 15:20:54 <Russ> http://www.eevblog.com/2009/11/04/eevblog-42-exploding-capacitors-in-high-speed/
May 30 15:21:24 <av500> http://www.vavasour.ca/jeff/level1/simulator.html
May 30 15:21:28 <av500> warning - JAVA!!!
May 30 15:24:01 * mdp clicks and brings his macbook to its knees
May 30 15:24:11 <mdp> thx..but I guess you warned me
May 30 15:25:15 <av500> well, 10 print "hello"; 20 goto 10 works
May 30 15:25:42 <aholler> but you need the major security-problem - java
May 30 15:26:03 <nextime> av500 : maybe one can learn coding cause the rpi is so cheap that it can buy a little machine to code.
May 30 15:26:40 <aholler> you need a keyboard, mouse and screen too, that isn't cheap
May 30 15:26:47 <nextime> and anyway, i think today there is a lot to do with new hw where anyone can put hands on
May 30 15:27:09 <nextime> aholler : so, less than 100 euro for a complete computer? isn't so bad
May 30 15:27:34 <aholler> you get tablets for that too.
May 30 15:27:49 <nextime> aholler : and on tablets you learn to code?
May 30 15:28:02 <aholler> if you want
May 30 15:28:11 <nextime> i hope rpi is better for that
May 30 15:28:22 <av500> ha, I even remembered that ; after the print prevents the line break....
May 30 15:28:25 <nextime> and in the idea of a school buying machines for classroom, it's a lot better
May 30 15:28:34 <mdp> than tablets?
May 30 15:28:38 <av500> for a school the price does not matter
May 30 15:28:41 <nextime> uff
May 30 15:28:41 <aholler> with the r-pi you will learn that linux without an rtc isn't fun ;)
May 30 15:28:44 <av500> the teacher costs way more
May 30 15:28:54 <mdp> +1
May 30 15:29:01 <nextime> i have a lot of startpar task hang during boot on the bone
May 30 15:29:07 <arcanescu> holy sh** that capcitor went off like a rocket
May 30 15:29:20 <jkridner_> koen: did you notice that bonescript is now part of npm's repo?
May 30 15:29:39 <koen> jkridner_: nope
May 30 15:29:51 <jkridner_> the examples are currently not.
May 30 15:30:02 <nextime> av500 for a school the price does not matter? maybe in your country, but the worl is big.
May 30 15:30:05 <nextime> world
May 30 15:30:17 <av500> ah yes, the 3rd world
May 30 15:30:27 <nextime> av500: no, even in the "first" one
May 30 15:30:28 <av500> they have 1080p flatscreen a lot
May 30 15:30:32 <koen> jkridner_: you forgot "r-pi-sucks-ass" in the keywords sections
May 30 15:30:36 <av500> so just plug the rpi
May 30 15:31:16 <nextime> av500
May 30 15:31:32 <nextime> i don't know where you live, but in my country, that formally is a country in the "first" world
May 30 15:31:40 <nextime> price matter for a school.
May 30 15:31:54 <av500> nextime: right
May 30 15:31:58 <av500> I understand that
May 30 15:32:37 <av500> but rpi promised to teach british kids how to program, poor british kids that have no access to a computer
May 30 15:32:49 <av500> but I guess they all have an iphone
May 30 15:32:52 <av500> these days
May 30 15:34:13 <av500> that TRS80 is now running A = A +1 - PRINT A - goto 10 until that browser crashes......
May 30 15:41:06 <nextime> well, my work desk right now: http://danex.nexlab.it/20120530_010.jpg
May 30 15:42:25 <av500> pedantic arrangement of tools
May 30 15:42:49 <nextime> av500 : heh, i'm old :P
May 30 15:43:07 <av500> you should draw outlines around the tools too
May 30 15:43:35 <nextime> no need to do that, i have those line in my mind
May 30 15:43:36 <nextime> :P
May 30 15:50:05 <nextime> uhmm
May 30 15:50:19 <nextime> it seems that debian insserv won't work great on the bone
May 30 15:59:40 <av500> koen: that 300fps cam shows nothing
May 30 16:00:26 <av500> damn, that TRS80 is pegging one core
May 30 16:00:28 <ogra_> 300 black frames per second ?
May 30 16:00:36 <nextime> ok, removing insserv package from debian and going back to file-rc startup solve
May 30 16:00:43 <av500> ogra_: the boom is faster than 300fps
May 30 16:00:51 <ogra_> heh
May 30 16:02:46 <mdp> Terminal IDE for android, fwiw
May 30 16:03:06 <mdp> nextime:  ^^^
May 30 16:03:26 <nextime> what?
May 30 16:10:48 <riskable> I'm having a problem with the python-matplotlib*.bb package I'm putting together...  The setup.py for matplotlib does an import of numpy to determine if it is installed and to make sure it is at a requisite version.  How do I get bitbake to work with something like that?
May 30 16:11:21 <koen> you don't
May 30 16:11:41 <koen> it's an example of broken crosscompile behaviour of most python stuff
May 30 16:12:02 <av500> just install the same packages on host and target....
May 30 16:14:17 <riskable> So should I patch the setup.py to not do that import?
May 30 16:18:57 <av500> riskable: you will have the same issue with check_for_latex, check_for_pdftops etc...
May 30 16:19:15 <av500> that script assumes it runs on the target
May 30 16:19:43 <riskable> av500: Well, that's fine.  I can work around all that with a patch.  I was just wondering if there was something in bitbake that would take care of it.  That's all
May 30 16:19:52 <av500> no
May 30 16:19:55 <av500> bitbake builds cross
May 30 16:20:03 <av500> it cannot simulate the target for you
May 30 16:20:25 <riskable> Well, I tried setting $PYTHONPATH to the $STAGING_LIBDIR and $STAGING_LIBDIR_NATIVE to see if I could get it past those checks but it still failed
May 30 16:20:27 <av500> other build environments like scratchbox do that
May 30 16:20:50 <av500> by running stuff in qemu
May 30 16:21:17 <riskable> As long as I know that the typical method is to patch the package then that's all I need
May 30 16:21:31 <riskable> I just didn't want to look like an idiot making this big patch when I didn't need to :)
May 30 16:54:33 <amit1> Hi, I have a question regarding expansion board in BBxM. Despite multiple trials I am not able to implement a push-button on the GPIO pins. I have used a pull down circuit with switch and 10k resistance.
May 30 16:54:46 <amit1> any suggestions?
May 30 16:55:48 <W1N9Zr0> make sure your pins are muxed as input
May 30 17:06:36 <amit1> any suggestions to my query will be very helpful. Thanks
May 30 17:07:47 <agmlego> amit1: Did you see W1N9Zr0's reply?
May 30 17:12:05 <Crofton> who is selling the quad a15 blades
May 30 17:12:41 <ogra_> dell ?
May 30 17:13:04 <ogra_> (in a year or two)
May 30 17:13:41 <Crofton> calxeda
May 30 17:14:37 <ogra_> well, they arent on sale yet and you will likely be easier able to buy them from HP
May 30 17:21:49 <Crofton> thats ok, it is for trolling someone complaining an omap3 won't process 60MB/s of sampled rf data
May 30 17:22:35 <ogra_> lol
May 30 17:23:01 <ogra_> make him buy a raspberry
May 30 17:23:16 <ogra_> its newer than omap3 so it must be faster ;)
May 30 17:24:49 <icota> did anyone get mcasp singing on the beaglebone? i'm stuck at buffer flushing, there's a technique called ping-pong that's not working on the bone
May 30 17:25:05 <icota> in davinci-pcm.c
May 30 17:25:20 <icota> new to this
May 30 17:45:53 <strata> i'm looking to buy up to 100 arm boards that are beaglebone sized but cheaper than beaglebone. (NOT rasberry pi - it would take too long to wait)
May 30 17:46:01 <strata> anybody know of anything?
May 30 17:48:35 <jacekowski> netduino?
May 30 17:48:46 <jacekowski> or you want to run linux on it?
May 30 17:49:11 <jacekowski> arm is quite vague
May 30 17:49:22 <jacekowski> as you have slow 10MHz SoCs to fast 2GHz ones
May 30 17:49:46 <ScottCh> strata: how about this: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/another-tiny-computer-vias-49-apc-offers-android-hdmi-video-out/
May 30 17:50:18 <ScottCh> hm... bigger than a beaglebone
May 30 17:50:25 <strata> ScottCh: that's perfect. unfortunately it's kinda in the same boat as rasberry pi right now.
May 30 17:50:47 <ScottCh> :-(
May 30 17:51:02 <strata> we don't know what they'll do.
May 30 17:51:04 <ScottCh> july
May 30 17:51:31 <strata> they might say "we have 1000 of them but they're already sold." then they'll sit on their asses for 6 months like rasberry pi is doing.
May 30 17:53:57 <ScottCh> strata: the MK802 PC is supposed to be available now
May 30 17:54:59 <agmlego> strata: If you are buying 100, you might get a discount on the bone.
May 30 17:56:29 <ScottCh> http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/18/mk802-beats-cotton-candy-to-market/
May 30 17:56:46 <ScottCh> haha cut to the bone
May 30 17:56:47 <strata> the mk802 looks interesting
May 30 17:57:01 <strata> it's only like $15 cheaper than bone
May 30 17:57:04 <strata> so hmm.....
May 30 17:57:33 <ScottCh> yeah, I'd probably wait for the Via, it has some interesting devices
May 30 17:57:46 <ScottCh> if waiting was an option...
May 30 18:09:53 <strata> yea
May 30 18:10:04 <strata> basically, i'm looking for rpi _now_ :/
May 30 18:11:12 <cboyd> What packages do I need to install on the beagleboard to use gstreamer playbin2? I am running the systemd-gnome-image.
May 30 18:42:10 <koen> cboyd: try gst-plugins-base-playbin
May 30 18:44:52 <ds2> \
May 30 18:49:04 <prpplague> koen: fun fun fun
May 30 18:49:16 <prpplague> koen: i've re-written my response to vtech three times already, hehe
May 30 18:52:40 <ascii_ch> does anybody know how to wakup the beaglebone (not the beagleboard) using a gpio-pin (digital input) or uart2. I can enter suspend to ram successfully but only wakup on uart0 (console to my computer)
May 30 18:52:52 <cboyd> koen: By the way, thanks for the help yesterday. My usb keyboard and mouse work now.
May 30 18:53:18 <koen> cboyd: usbhid is now builtin, so future generations will  have it easier :)
May 30 18:55:01 <cboyd> koen: i installed gst-plugins-base-playbin and when I tried to run gst-launch playbin uri=file://<file location>. I got errors.
May 30 18:57:26 <koen> try gst-plugins-base-meta as well
May 30 18:57:37 <koen> that will drag in a lot of base plugins
May 30 18:58:21 <koen> it's been a while since I used gstreamer
May 30 18:58:39 * koen foresees gst in the near future
May 30 18:59:05 <koen> customer has the camera working, which means they will want to see stuff on the screen and/or stream over the network
May 30 19:00:04 <mdp> team building time!!!
May 30 19:00:09 <mdp> blech
May 30 19:01:07 <koen> lunch at BDs?
May 30 19:01:26 <koen> or did they change the team building effort after I left?
May 30 19:11:53 <deffrag> Hello! Is there any documentation/wiki where initrd.img  MLO  u-boot.img  uEnv.txt  uImage  uInitrd  zImage files are indivually explained?
May 30 19:13:11 <javaJake> deffrag: those files are, collectively, complex. You'd be better off researching the purpose of each file individually via Google. They are standard Linux files so there should be something written up.
May 30 19:13:41 <riskable> The default python package is missing the unittest module?  How'd that happen?
May 30 19:14:25 <prpplague> koen: was that efuse post clear?
May 30 19:15:05 <aholler> burn them
May 30 19:17:17 <koen> prpplague: yes
May 30 19:20:09 <aholler> hehem I just read "The Linux Foundation’s Open Compliance Program includes set of trolls..."
May 30 19:20:59 <aholler> trolls everywhere.
May 30 19:22:41 <prpplague> aholler: which post is that one?
May 30 19:22:54 <prpplague> aholler: i've seen several post about it today
May 30 19:23:24 <aholler> it's the article about those barcodes from the foundation. link at lwn
May 30 19:23:37 <prpplague> ahh
May 30 19:25:01 <prpplague> aholler: hehe
May 30 19:25:16 <prpplague> aholler: it was posted on g+ as well this morning and on /.
May 30 19:25:43 * prpplague just does not get some of the comments posts against enforcing GPL and other open licenses
May 30 19:25:49 <spacecolonyone> hey guys am I understanding correctly in that the file board-omap3beagle-camera.c needs to be created and added to get support for a camera on the BBxm, especially a custom job for which I'm creating my own v4l2 subdev client driver.
May 30 19:26:59 <spacecolonyone> I've seen it added as a patch when adding support for various sensors as far back as 2010, but it never seems to have made it to mainline
May 30 19:27:13 <deffrag> javaJake: Secondly, as far as I could understand there are always two partitions created - boot and rootfs where rootfs is alternative to / root partition in linux and boot partition contains above mentioned files. What is the alternative to boot partition in linux?
May 30 19:28:01 <nextime> deffrag : rootfs isn't alternative to /. rootfs IS //
May 30 19:28:04 <nextime> IS/ .
May 30 19:28:30 <nextime> there is "no"' alternatives for /, boot and so on
May 30 19:28:31 <aholler> /
May 30 19:28:40 <deffrag> I meant for understanding, I was considering / as an example for rootfs
May 30 19:29:42 <aholler> deffrag: the problem is that the rom-code can only handle fat and you don't want to use linux on a fat
May 30 19:29:58 <deffrag> And then, why is that boot should always be partitioned to fat filesystem and rootfs to ext2/3/4
May 30 19:30:07 <deffrag> Ah, ok
May 30 19:30:26 <deffrag> rom-code.
May 30 19:30:50 <nextime> anyway, nothing bad in having uboot on a fat fs
May 30 19:31:34 <deffrag> But I haven't seen files like MLO and u-boot.img uEnv in standard linux installation
May 30 19:31:56 <mranostay> er because this isn't a desktop
May 30 19:32:14 <deffrag> When I mounted the rootfs, I could related it to / file structure
May 30 19:32:34 <mranostay> yeah i love relating to my filesystems
May 30 19:32:36 <deffrag> Er, no I'm not asking from point of view of desktop, laptop etc.. but with reference to linux
May 30 19:32:42 <mranostay> makes me feel more at home
May 30 19:32:45 <deffrag> I could see it related to*
May 30 19:32:56 <nextime> deffrag : which bootloader are you referring as the "standard" for linux?
May 30 19:33:09 <mranostay> heh probably grub
May 30 19:33:35 <nextime> did you understand that with those little machines arm based you can't use the usual one, grub or grub2, and you have to use a different bootloader (u-boot)
May 30 19:33:40 <mranostay> speaking of grub. i better get lunch
May 30 19:34:02 <nextime> so, there is no "standard" linux, there is only the default install for a specific architecture on a specific distro
May 30 19:34:16 <mranostay> deffrag: bootloader != linux
May 30 19:34:53 <nextime> in fact u-boot is very "standard" on arm
May 30 19:35:00 <nextime> or better, very common
May 30 19:35:02 <deffrag> mranostay: Don't know what made you say that 'coz I never said bootloader is linux
May 30 19:35:30 <deffrag> nextime: What is the reason that grub/grub2 is not used?
May 30 19:35:30 <ds2> u-boot is just one of the many bootloaders available
May 30 19:35:50 <ds2> just like LILO/grub/loadlin/syslinux/etc are bootloaders
May 30 19:35:53 <nextime> defrag: cause it doesn't support this hw
May 30 19:36:07 <ds2> grub sucks anyways.
May 30 19:36:12 <ds2> piece of garbage
May 30 19:36:21 <ds2> but if you want to use it, port it.
May 30 19:37:08 <deffrag> ds2: u-boot, Das U-boot , universal bootloader all mean the same?
May 30 19:37:13 <prpplague> actually a few years back there was some grub variations from AMD to work on MIPS/ARM boards, but it died quickly when AMD sold off the alchemy stuff
May 30 19:37:40 <prpplague> deffrag: yea those are general references to the same bootloader
May 30 19:37:40 <ds2> deffrag: das u-boot is the full name for u-boot, IIRC... haven't seen the other name
May 30 19:37:41 <aholler> uefi is the future
May 30 19:37:41 <deffrag> ds2: I don't know about porting. I've very basic knowlege of linux and just starting on beagleboard
May 30 19:37:52 <ds2> grub is a total waste of time
May 30 19:38:25 <prpplague> deffrag: http://elinux.org/Bootloader
May 30 19:38:37 <_av500_> on a pc, BIOS is more like uboot
May 30 19:38:55 <_av500_> and grub is just the thing that loads the kernel
May 30 19:39:23 <deffrag> eh, as far as I know BIOS directs to first sector of HDD containing the bootloader (grub/MBR) right?
May 30 19:39:33 <_av500_> yes
May 30 19:39:45 <_av500_> but there is already set up memory etc
May 30 19:39:52 <_av500_> and cpu clocks
May 30 19:40:18 <ds2> then shouldn't it be SPL not u-boot? ;)
May 30 19:40:46 <_av500_> call it what u want
May 30 19:43:33 <deffrag> I went through http://elinux.org/Bootloader page .. I was wondering if there exists a page which explains about  initrd.img  MLO  u-boot.img  uEnv.txt  uImage  uInitrd  zImage files
May 30 19:43:57 <prpplague> deffrag: your confused with regards to the bootloader stuff is very common for someone crossing over from the x86 realm. if you google something like "why do arm devices not have a bios" you will a bunch of hits on flame wars over the topic
May 30 19:44:26 <prpplague> deffrag: all of those can be googled easily
May 30 19:44:54 <prpplague> deffrag: for example initrd - http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-initrd/index.html
May 30 19:45:46 <prpplague> deffrag: or for uImage - http://docs.blackfin.uclinux.org/doku.php?id=bootloaders:u-boot:uimage
May 30 19:46:10 <ds2> but soem ARM devices do have a BIOS ;)
May 30 19:46:13 <ds2> some
May 30 19:46:15 <deffrag> Thanks, prpplague. I'll find about the rest :)
May 30 19:46:25 <prpplague> ds2: hehe
May 30 19:46:26 <aholler> those will get more
May 30 19:47:26 <ds2> and aren't there some x86 devices that don't have a BIOS or EFI? (some quick boot atom stuff, IIRC)
May 30 19:48:14 <aholler> coreboot
May 30 19:48:33 <prpplague> ds2: hehe i just ment that was the topic of conversation to good for
May 30 19:49:34 <deffrag> ds2: What is SPL you were referring to above?
May 30 19:50:07 <ds2> deffrag: it is a name used in u-boot2..that sets up the memory and then loads u-boot
May 30 19:52:25 <prpplague> deffrag: when the omap starts up it executes a small piece of rom code that looks for a file named MLO on several types of media
May 30 19:52:39 <prpplague> deffrag: MLO can be any kind of arm executable program
May 30 19:52:56 <prpplague> deffrag: for instance it could be a small ram test program or it could be a secondary bootloader
May 30 19:53:31 <prpplague> deffrag: when compiling u-boot for omap, it generates a Secondary Program Loader or SPL
May 30 19:53:48 <prpplague> deffrag: the spl binary can be renamed to MLO which the omap will look for an execute
May 30 19:54:14 <ds2> the MLO name is only used in the filesystem option
May 30 19:54:17 <prpplague> deffrag: the SPL that is created with the u-boot build by default will try to locate a u-boot binary and then execute it
May 30 19:54:18 <ds2> otehrwise, it doesn't care
May 30 19:54:37 <ds2> other names for the SPL include x-loader
May 30 19:54:46 <deffrag> Where is this rom code stored, prpplague?
May 30 19:55:14 <prpplague> *cough* in the rom inside of the omap
May 30 19:55:19 <deffrag> er
May 30 19:55:28 <deffrag> sorry.
May 30 19:58:35 <mranostay> prpplague: ARM doesn't have a BIOS?!!?!? :)
May 30 19:58:38 <deffrag> just to clarify, Secondary Program Loader is same as secondary bootloader?
May 30 19:58:47 <mranostay> yeah
May 30 19:59:03 <mranostay> well wait
May 30 19:59:10 <deffrag> Why do we need second bootloader?
May 30 19:59:20 <deffrag> secondary*
May 30 19:59:25 <mranostay> it is Second Program Loader
May 30 19:59:34 <mranostay> all bootloaders uses stages :)
May 30 19:59:38 <deffrag> Ah-ok
May 30 20:00:14 <mranostay> first one is a basic one to get the real (2nd stage) bootloader
May 30 20:00:25 <mranostay> grub does this too for instance
May 30 20:09:14 <javaJake> deffrag: as far as I understand it (and mranostay and prpplague can correct me if I'm wrong), the entire point of all these systems is to get us out of the extremely limited environment that the hardware provides when it first boots, one step at a time (thus, stages).
May 30 20:10:21 <javaJake> deffrag: systems like beagleboard provide a very different environment when it first boots than a more common Intel system, which is why words like "BIOS" and programs like grub don't apply.
May 30 20:11:30 <javaJake> I'm mixing my use of the word "system" but I hope it's still clear and accurate.
May 30 20:14:41 <BruceUK> Greetings !!
May 30 20:16:47 <BruceUK> Picked up a BeagleBone last week....gotta be the geeks toy of choice this summer...can't put it down!
May 30 20:17:14 <fiola> Cute, isn't it. :-)
May 30 20:17:32 <BruceUK> Some issues though...network doesn't work. I've surfed a fair bit and got the impression Rev A5 had fixed the ethernet issues?
May 30 20:17:49 <mranostay> i believe they did
May 30 20:17:53 <mranostay> *have
May 30 20:18:04 <fiola> Mine is brand new too, networking works fine.  What's the issue you're finding?
May 30 20:18:10 <nextime> uhmm
May 30 20:18:27 <nextime> ok, i choose to not continue to try the bone
May 30 20:18:29 <BruceUK> I've managed to compile my own uboot/kernel etc etc, I can boot and login bla bla...but neither the shipped distro nor my own compilation gets a "link up"
May 30 20:18:39 <lautriv> hello, anyone got a serial console via usb-gadget ?
May 30 20:19:03 <nextime> too time to get it working as expected
May 30 20:19:42 <fiola> BruceUK: I haven't changed anything from the distributed distro yet, but the Ethernet works fine after manual configuring.
May 30 20:19:58 <nextime> anyone can point me to a working image of debian for the bone? just to see what it has different from mine
May 30 20:20:10 <djlewis> seems problems always start with " i compiled my own kernel" ;)
May 30 20:20:32 <BruceUK> Is yours RevA5?
May 30 20:20:38 <nextime> djlewis : not mine
May 30 20:20:39 <nextime> :)
May 30 20:20:44 <fiola> BruceUK: yep
May 30 20:21:04 <BruceUK> I tried the shipped distro and no joy.....hmm...lemme try again, will setenv ethaddr etc and see if link comes up
May 30 20:21:46 <deffrag> ROM code.. I was looking for an example of it to understand why it can only understand fat fs and about the execution steps followed in it, but maybe I should mark it up for later. I'm bit confused about SPL. The steps are like OMAP start > ROM code > MLO (arm executable which can be SPL). Then you said SPL is created during u-boot build for SPL to be able to locate u-boot binary. So, in all in the final boot partition there is MLO with u-boot file,
May 30 20:21:47 <deffrag> ROM code on OMAP start points to MLO which in turn to u-boot. I hope I got that right
May 30 20:22:04 <deffrag> prpplague: ^
May 30 20:22:39 <deffrag> javaJake: Yes, pretty much same understand here now
May 30 20:22:45 <deffrag> understanding*
May 30 20:28:42 <BruceUK> fiola: when you boot the shipped distro, what u-boot commands are you using to bring the "link up"
May 30 20:28:54 <riskable> Is it possible to modify a patch to include the contents of an environment variable before it is applied (bitbake)?
May 30 20:29:53 <fiola> BruceUK: I'm not touching u-boot manually.  Just boot up, then use iproute2 commands to bring up the link
May 30 20:30:30 <fiola> First of all see if you've got a device:  ip link ls
May 30 20:31:08 <fiola> If you don't have an eth0 listed by that command, then your problem is more fundamental
May 30 20:31:14 <prpplague> deffrag: yes
May 30 20:31:53 <BruceUK> fiola: got it, cheers!
May 30 20:32:03 <prpplague> deffrag: OMAP start > ROM code > MLO -> u-boot -> kernel
May 30 20:32:08 <fiola> OK, now check the IP level:  ip addr ls
May 30 20:32:33 <deffrag> prpplague: Gotcha. Thanks!
May 30 20:32:33 <BruceUK> I need to dd the shipped image back on, takes a while, will be back in 10min
May 30 20:32:46 <fiola> I'll make coffee :P
May 30 20:33:31 <orated_> Hello! Do we "Port" or "Install" ubuntu/angstrom/or any embedded OS when starting to use Beagleboard? What's the difference?
May 30 20:34:27 <deffrag> Thanks all
May 30 20:35:58 <fiola> orated_: Operating systems are "ported" to different devices by a developer, working at a low level of detail and solving the problems.  The ported O/S is then "installed" by users into their devices.
May 30 20:36:28 <deffrag> fiola: Regarding getting link up, I'm using a usb-ethernet adapter as I don't have the ethernet port on this old BB. So is it fine if I get usb0 and not eth0 as you said not having eth0 listed can be some fundamental issue?
May 30 20:37:27 <fiola> deffrag: yes, that's totally fine, your usb0 is at the same logical link level as the eth0.  I was answering only BruceUK's specific question about his external Ethernet link.
May 30 20:38:22 <orated_> fiola: So, the Ubuntu/Angstrom installation images are images already containing ported OS ready for installation
May 30 20:38:51 <fiola> deffrag: On the beagle side, everything that would apply to an eth0 would also apply to a usb0.  They're all link-level interfaces.
May 30 20:38:59 <deffrag> fiola: Yes, I was just curious as I even I faced similar issue yesterday ;)
May 30 20:39:05 <fiola> :-)
May 30 20:39:15 <deffrag> Yes, thanks
May 30 20:39:17 <fiola> orated_: yes, correct
May 30 20:41:27 <lautriv> serial console.....anyone ?
May 30 20:42:12 <javaJake> lautriv: yea, it's really annoying to set up
May 30 20:42:47 <javaJake> Assuming your serial console gadget is recognized properly on the host end, your inittab needs to be picture-perfect.
May 30 20:42:58 <lautriv> javaJake, i wonder why i can't see anything on the host after g_serial is loaded.
May 30 20:43:05 <javaJake> Er, rather, I meant to say the only other issue is your inittab needs to be picture-perfect.
May 30 20:43:16 <javaJake> lautriv: "see anything"?
May 30 20:43:27 <lautriv> javaJake, device via lsusb
May 30 20:43:38 <javaJake> lautriv: anything in the kernel log?
May 30 20:44:14 <lautriv> javaJake, device is unfortunately not equipped with a keyboard, reason for this console :(
May 30 20:44:33 <javaJake> lautriv: I understand; beagle has the same issues
May 30 20:44:40 * fiola hums the ssh song ...
May 30 20:44:43 <fiola> :P
May 30 20:44:52 <riskable> For reference, I solved my problem by simply patching the Python code to use os.environ['STAGING_LIBDIR'] :)
May 30 20:45:14 <javaJake> fiola: that's assuming ssh and networking came up properly, something that's hard to verify without a serial terminal ;)
May 30 20:45:31 <lautriv> fiola, also no dice with cdc_ether
May 30 20:46:02 <javaJake> lautriv: what does your host kernel log say when you plug it in?
May 30 20:46:53 <prpplague> deffrag: you can ask relating to any of the boot questions here
May 30 20:47:39 <lautriv> javaJake, it appears to be "nothing"
May 30 20:48:21 <javaJake> lautriv: it doesn't even recognize that there is possibly a new USB device?
May 30 20:48:23 <fiola> javajake: I misunderstood what you two are trying to do, thought you wanted serial comms initiated from beagle end.  Surely initiated from the host end it's working automatically?  You just connect some terminal program to one of the two /dev/ttyUSB[01] devices.
May 30 20:49:22 <fiola> Worked for me out of the box.  All I had to do was switch off control flow in the comms program.
May 30 20:49:34 <lautriv> javaJake, strange thing is, i boot via another kernel and kexecboot, that time i see CDC_ether on the bus..........looks like there is an issue with module-init-tools then :(
May 30 20:49:47 <javaJake> fiola: it's only working out of the box if the distro was set up with the correct inittab out of the box.
May 30 20:50:17 <fiola> javajake: Oh I see, so problems before A5 I guess.  Mine is new
May 30 20:50:30 <javaJake> fiola: I built Gentoo for beagle, and it took me a good long while before I figured out inittab.
May 30 20:50:43 <javaJake> I had a b4, iirc
May 30 20:51:13 <fiola> javajake: My machines here are all Gentoo, so I'll follow what you've done at some point too
May 30 20:51:27 <javaJake> I mean, you can always see the boot messages, but once the kernel loads in, things get tricky :)
May 30 21:01:49 <nextime> javaJake : in my case i have a working kernel but when it switch to userspace things ( init ) i have a lot of issues
May 30 21:02:39 <nextime> ( with different preconfigure fs supposed to work and also with a custom fs that work on a beagleboard-xm )
May 30 21:03:58 <nextime> ( and mine is a rev5a )
May 30 21:28:51 <koen> riskable: does 'inherit setuptools' help?
May 30 21:29:02 <riskable> koen: Already have that
May 30 21:29:33 <riskable> I actually got it to compile and make an ipk at this point...  Just trying to figure out why the compile is adding -I/usr/whatever (local instead of inside the build dir)
May 30 21:29:57 <riskable> I need to make sure those are removed
May 30 21:31:41 <BruceUK> fiola: Cheers mate....all looks much better
May 30 21:32:01 <BruceUK> U-Boot# tftpboot link up on port 0, speed 100, full duplex Using cpsw device TFTP from server 192.100.1.10; our IP address is 192.100.1.250 Filename 'uImage'. Load address: 0x82000000 Loading: T T T T
May 30 21:32:48 <BruceUK> ...
May 30 21:32:54 <koen> BruceUK: dcache off
May 30 21:33:03 <BruceUK> anybody know what these errors are?
May 30 21:33:12 <BruceUK> ...
May 30 21:35:22 <fiola> BruceUK:  Good good :-)  Btw, it pays to familiarize yourself with iproute2 (replacing the old ifconfig, netstat, etc) because the old tools don't work properly with IPv6, which comes as standard at least on A5
May 30 21:36:27 <bruceUK_> sorry I got kicked off
May 30 21:36:31 <bruceUK_> koen: you mentioned dcache?
May 30 21:44:36 <riskable> basedirlist is: ['/usr/local', '/usr'] <--What sets that?
May 30 21:45:59 <riskable> Nevermind, I figured it out
May 30 22:45:52 <nextime> it seems that usb on the bone with 3.x kernel have a lot of issues
May 30 23:15:51 <mranostay> heh
May 31 00:37:21 <riskable> Holy cow did I just build a python-matplotlib package without errors or warnings?!?  Time to test it!!!
May 31 00:50:35 <haneef> Hi I am planning to use a beagle board for my robotics project, i will be using CANbus, 4 stepper motors, and a few led's.
May 31 00:50:46 <haneef> should i go for beagle bone
May 31 00:50:47 <haneef> ?
May 31 00:55:06 <haneef> How to connect to this group via IRC
May 31 00:56:36 <mranostay> er
May 31 00:56:56 <mranostay> prpplague: new quote of the year
May 31 00:59:21 <KeatonT> hmm beaglebone seems to be powering down for some reason.
May 31 01:02:15 <riskable> Ugh, matplotlib requires distutils
May 31 01:43:51 <riskable> So I spent all that time putting together python-matplotlib only to find out there's problems with python-numpy!  I guess I have to fix that first
May 31 01:48:28 <riskable> Holy cow, success!  I have a working python-matplotlib*.bb file that makes a working ipk!
May 31 01:51:09 <riskable> Unfortunately my patch will need to wait until tomorrow night before I can submit it.  In the mean time, here's the ipk if anyone wants it:  http://riskable.com/files/python-matplotlib_1.1.0-r1_armv7a.ipk
May 31 01:51:45 <riskable> I should also have patches/updates/packages available for python-numpy, ipython, and possibly others now that I've figured out this packaging system
May 31 02:02:16 <riskable> Alright, I'm off on vacation...  Later
May 31 02:40:30 <furan> anyone got a good understanding of using mmap for gpio?
May 31 02:44:50 <XMPPwocky> furan: well, you're basically memory-mapping a file (/dev/mem)
May 31 02:44:57 <XMPPwocky> which is itself file-mapped memory
May 31 02:46:04 <XMPPwocky> so you end up using hilariously roundabout means to access physical memory directly
May 31 02:46:21 <mru> I fail to see what's so funny
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