**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 11 02:59:58 2012
Jul 11 04:22:44 <KeatonT> So far sqlite seems like the better choice.
Jul 11 07:27:36 <yegorich> what is the appropriate mailing list for arago kernel? http://arago-project.org/git/projects/?p=linux-am33x.git;a=summary
Jul 11 07:29:03 <stuk_gen> koen: have you commit the meta-raspberrypi after change layers.txt?
Jul 11 08:23:24 <koen> yegorich: there is none
Jul 11 08:23:39 <koen> yegorich: PSP filed a complaint against me after I asked for one to be created
Jul 11 08:24:00 <koen> yegorich: I called their "attached patches to e2e forum" idea hilarious
Jul 11 08:24:10 <yegorich> koen: :-(
Jul 11 08:24:15 <koen> apparently they were dead serious about the ph0rums
Jul 11 08:24:36 <koen> yegorich: complain to your TI rep :)
Jul 11 08:24:45 <yegorich> koen: unbelievable
Jul 11 08:25:25 <yegorich> koen: then I try to send patches to some maintainer directly, forum is not an option in my eyes
Jul 11 08:25:36 <koen> I completely agree
Jul 11 08:26:07 <stuk_gen> koen: have you read about your commit meta-raspberrypi?
Jul 11 08:26:25 <koen> that complaint was the main reason I quit TI 2 months earlier than I had planned
Jul 11 08:26:35 <koen> stuk_gen: my crystal ball is broken
Jul 11 08:27:01 <stuk_gen> koen: yeasterday you commit the change to master for meta-raspberrypi in layers.txt
Jul 11 08:27:26 <koen> and?
Jul 11 08:27:50 <stuk_gen> but this break the oe build with a
Jul 11 08:28:04 <ant_work> koen: about psplash, what about  http://pastebin.com/VH4099K2  ?
Jul 11 08:28:10 <stuk_gen> warining about the meta-raspberrypi and the layers.txt
Jul 11 08:28:34 <koen> stuk_gen: stop posting such lousy bug reports
Jul 11 08:28:40 <koen> stuk_gen: actual error messages
Jul 11 08:29:05 <stuk_gen> koen: maybe if you reply not after hours i can give you more details about the problem
Jul 11 08:29:08 <koen> ant_work: that patch makes sense
Jul 11 08:29:46 <stuk_gen> koen: now wait one minutes i have to refound the problem
Jul 11 08:31:17 <koen> stuk_gen: and with all angstorm bugs, did you report it to the mailinglist?
Jul 11 08:31:38 <stuk_gen> koen: the first message is WARNING!!! meta-raspberrypi is using different branch than configured in layers.txt
Jul 11 08:32:53 <koen> a0rm sources/meta-raspberrypi/ -rf
Jul 11 08:33:49 <stuk_gen> koen: and the oe build exit with a message Error: No recipes avaiable for : pathto/source/meta-raspberrypi/recipes-core/netbase/netbase_5.0.bbappend
Jul 11 08:34:45 <stuk_gen> koen: a0rm?
Jul 11 08:42:48 <stuk_gen> koen: all anstrom bugs? what bug are you tell?
Jul 11 08:44:41 <aholler_> it's a synonym for aarch32 ;)
Jul 11 08:45:39 <stuk_gen> aholler_: what? a0rm?
Jul 11 08:46:15 <aholler_> no, koen
Jul 11 08:46:59 <stuk_gen> aholler_: do you know the mean of a0rm?
Jul 11 08:47:37 <aholler_> yes, 4-2=2
Jul 11 08:56:27 <stuk_gen> someone know a good distribution to use on beagleboard xM or bone?
Jul 11 09:06:03 <av500> angstrom?
Jul 11 09:06:13 <av500> ah, no, you wanted "good"
Jul 11 09:06:49 <LetoThe2nd> http://goo.gl/VAZa3
Jul 11 09:07:42 <av500> in that case, I prefer BSD devil
Jul 11 09:08:00 <stuk_gen> av500: the problem i think is openembedded
Jul 11 09:08:08 <av500> ah
Jul 11 09:08:14 <stuk_gen> av500: using angstrom from oe build is impossible
Jul 11 09:08:33 <LetoThe2nd> av500: (possibly NSFW) like http://www.flickr.com/photos/27249820@N04/3647105630/
Jul 11 09:08:43 <stuk_gen> av500: because oe is update every day, and this create a break build
Jul 11 09:08:48 <aholler_> stuk_gen: fedora entered the arm-market some time ago too.
Jul 11 09:08:57 <av500> LetoThe2nd: no, the other one
Jul 11 09:09:15 <av500> http://freebsd-image-gallery.netcode.pl/?gallery=Daemonette
Jul 11 09:09:45 <LetoThe2nd> av500: hrhr
Jul 11 09:10:18 <stuk_gen> av500: angstrom is good the problem is build from oe is not 'filtered'
Jul 11 09:10:19 <av500> oh, #nsfw for people on the other side of the pond
Jul 11 09:10:28 <stuk_gen> the build from*
Jul 11 09:10:49 <av500> stuk_gen: well, you can chose, angstrom with daily updates, or ubuntu with updates every 6 months
Jul 11 09:11:02 <av500> you can convert one into the other
Jul 11 09:11:06 <av500> not the other way round
Jul 11 09:11:29 <av500> if oe keeps breaking, stop typing git pull
Jul 11 09:11:44 <stuk_gen> av500: i need only a distribution that run a qt program, ubuntu and all graphics i don't need
Jul 11 09:11:56 <av500> sounds like angstrom then
Jul 11 09:11:58 <stuk_gen> av500: git pull?
Jul 11 09:12:12 <av500> [11:08:43] <stuk_gen> av500: because oe is update every day, and this create a break build
Jul 11 09:12:15 <stuk_gen> av500: i only use MACHINE=xxxx bitbka myimage
Jul 11 09:12:27 <av500> but we had that discussion already
Jul 11 09:12:34 <stuk_gen> av500: ok but this is the correct method from angstrom
Jul 11 09:12:35 <LetoThe2nd> av500: *think* what is "git pull" *think*
Jul 11 09:12:37 <aholler_> every distribution allows you to deinstall whatever you want
Jul 11 09:13:32 <stuk_gen> aholler: yes and to spend more time to manually solve the problem, every distribution allow this
Jul 11 09:13:55 <aholler> so build your own
Jul 11 09:14:40 <stuk_gen> aholler: is what i thought about using angstrom oe, but i can test every day the new oe update its terrible
Jul 11 09:15:13 <LetoThe2nd> you can try ptxdist, but there's no ready made BSP available i think.
Jul 11 09:15:50 <aholler> he likes his problems ;)
Jul 11 09:16:34 <stuk_gen> what is not understand is why there's tons of board with arm, but nobody describe in details what os and software use to run that boards!
Jul 11 09:18:06 * LetoThe2nd thinks somebody here is messing up the nomenclature of "os" and "readymade tested and super stable distribution that exactly fits your needs"
Jul 11 09:18:22 <stuk_gen> nono your are wrong
Jul 11 09:18:35 <aholler> and he misses such things as "server installation" or similiar
Jul 11 09:18:45 <av500> we are all wrong
Jul 11 09:18:46 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: then enlighten me, please.
Jul 11 09:19:22 <stuk_gen> LetoThe2nd: if you buy a pc, you can install windows,ubuntu...and all works
Jul 11 09:19:40 <aholler> you just said you don't want ubuntu
Jul 11 09:20:01 <av500> stuk_gen: then buy a pc
Jul 11 09:20:03 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: the comparison alone tells me that you have no clue what you are talking about.
Jul 11 09:20:11 <stuk_gen> if you attach some 'strange' device and the os haven't the driver you have to found and in the bad case build it....ok?
Jul 11 09:20:32 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: go buy a x86 board, including its super buggy bios, and be happy with whatever you can choose and install
Jul 11 09:20:48 <stuk_gen> wait one second
Jul 11 09:21:13 <stuk_gen> i'm trying to give you the question
Jul 11 09:21:22 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: ok, so for your last point - whats the difference to running, lets say a readymade ubuntu or debian image?
Jul 11 09:21:59 <stuk_gen> ubuntu or debian image on pc you mean?
Jul 11 09:22:33 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: on whatever arm board you desire.
Jul 11 09:23:04 <stuk_gen> ok, on pc i'm using ubuntu, i don't try debian, but i think was the same...
Jul 11 09:23:11 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: debian is able to be completely selfhosting, the only thing you need to give it is an at least minimal functioning kernel for bootstrapping.
Jul 11 09:23:49 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: but nevertheless, whats bad about running ubuntu/debian on your beloveth arm board?
Jul 11 09:23:52 <stuk_gen> LetoThe2nd: ok, but wait a second
Jul 11 09:24:11 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: i've already been waiting for more seconds, but go ahead. :)
Jul 11 09:24:12 <stuk_gen> on beagleboard i'm trying a demo image of Ubuntu
Jul 11 09:24:24 <stuk_gen> but its too slow
Jul 11 09:24:53 <aholler> which one?
Jul 11 09:24:56 <stuk_gen> and i have only need qt embedded, so i think i don't need gnome
Jul 11 09:25:00 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: thats the price you pay for exactly the features you wanted to have some lines above.
Jul 11 09:25:29 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: with enriched comfort, higher performance requirements come.
Jul 11 09:25:41 <stuk_gen> exactly
Jul 11 09:25:49 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: so whats your point now?
Jul 11 09:26:05 <stuk_gen> but because i need only qt embeded i think ubuntu is too 'expensive'
Jul 11 09:26:16 <stuk_gen> so i have search alternative...and this was angstrom
Jul 11 09:26:22 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: then don't use it! nobody said you have to.
Jul 11 09:26:31 <aholler> as already said, you can install ubuntu as a server installation. And I don't think ubuntu 12.04 with armhf is slower than angstrom. the same goes for debian or fedora
Jul 11 09:26:36 <stuk_gen> i'm trying to tell you what i have done!
Jul 11 09:26:55 <stuk_gen> i'm try ubuntu (not debian)
Jul 11 09:27:04 <stuk_gen> but it was expensive
Jul 11 09:27:08 <stuk_gen> so i'm using angstrom
Jul 11 09:27:20 <stuk_gen> but the demo image haven't qt with powervr
Jul 11 09:27:31 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: so you are basically complaining that you chose an embedded focused distribution over a more standard one for performance, but now you are unable to handle it due to higher complexity and knowledge needed. right?
Jul 11 09:27:31 <stuk_gen> so i use angstrom oe to build qt with powervr
Jul 11 09:28:02 <LetoThe2nd> cake, have, eat and all that.
Jul 11 09:28:09 <stuk_gen> yes, somethign similar
Jul 11 09:28:29 <stuk_gen> its not complexity but its terrible to manage
Jul 11 09:28:47 <LetoThe2nd> *hands out some free troll stickers and is gone again then*
Jul 11 09:28:49 <LetoThe2nd> q.e.d.
Jul 11 09:28:58 <stuk_gen> ...
Jul 11 09:29:02 <stuk_gen> this is simple
Jul 11 09:29:34 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: yes it is simple: you chose a powerful tool but don't know how it works. thats not the tools fault.
Jul 11 09:29:47 <stuk_gen> the problem is that i haven't to do a hobby test to run my custom distribution...
Jul 11 09:30:02 <stuk_gen> i have to create a stable distribution to works on it!
Jul 11 09:30:30 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: then don't complain, and go learn how things work.
Jul 11 09:30:37 <stuk_gen> hehe
Jul 11 09:30:43 <stuk_gen> yes tell me where?
Jul 11 09:30:48 <stuk_gen> on internet?
Jul 11 09:31:05 <stuk_gen> where there tons of old documents?
Jul 11 09:31:12 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: like i said, there's also ptxdist which features a more stable-point approach, but you'll have to come up with the BSP yourself
Jul 11 09:31:42 <aholler> LetoThe2nd: he needs a one-click-solution to use qt-creator on his pc which then cross-compiles and transfers the result automagically to his system.
Jul 11 09:31:50 <stuk_gen> pengutronix
Jul 11 09:31:56 <LetoThe2nd> (which is basically a kernel patchset in the minimal case.)
Jul 11 09:32:04 <LetoThe2nd> aholler: sounds like that, yes.
Jul 11 09:32:44 <stuk_gen> aholler: yes but this is not me...i think this is all the people in the world that want start to create software with embedded linux
Jul 11 09:33:00 <av500> stuk_gen: its a conspiracy
Jul 11 09:33:06 <av500> to keep our highly paid jobs
Jul 11 09:33:12 <LetoThe2nd> av500: sssssssh
Jul 11 09:33:18 <stuk_gen> its not a conspiracy
Jul 11 09:33:31 <stuk_gen> i'm curious to learn
Jul 11 09:33:34 <stuk_gen> about angstrom
Jul 11 09:33:36 <stuk_gen> open embedded
Jul 11 09:33:42 <stuk_gen> eccc its really interesting
Jul 11 09:33:51 <stuk_gen> but in the fact i'm a developer
Jul 11 09:33:51 <aholler> learning by complaining?
Jul 11 09:33:55 <av500> then starter learning
Jul 11 09:33:57 <av500> -er
Jul 11 09:34:02 <stuk_gen> and i have to delevoper application
Jul 11 09:34:27 <stuk_gen> its 6 moths that i don't write nothing because i'm stopped to works the basic board!
Jul 11 09:34:38 <stuk_gen> this make me 'angry'
Jul 11 09:34:59 <av500> our luck you are not a 'bird'
Jul 11 09:35:23 <LetoThe2nd> so you chose a base board because it was cheap, and now you are angry because there's no readymade things for you, no support to hold your hand and make things work for you?
Jul 11 09:35:34 <stuk_gen> cheap?
Jul 11 09:35:49 <LetoThe2nd> beagleboard is cheap. certainly.
Jul 11 09:35:52 <stuk_gen> beagleboard xM? cheap...i think raspberrypi was cheap
Jul 11 09:36:06 <stuk_gen> but for what? money or something else?
Jul 11 09:36:31 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: i'd say that any dev kit coming for less than 1000$ has to be considered cheap in industrial ways of thinking.
Jul 11 09:36:48 <stuk_gen> LetoThe2nd: ooh ok, thanks this is a good notice
Jul 11 09:37:02 <av500> stuk_gen: anyway, all your complaining is moot
Jul 11 09:37:13 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: cheap for money. so you basically pay only for the hardware and you have to come up with the knowledge yourself.
Jul 11 09:37:16 <av500> oe and angstrom are "free", you cannot demand support nor documentation
Jul 11 09:37:25 <av500> since both seem to be widely used, they cannot be that bad
Jul 11 09:37:40 <av500> if you think they lack docs or features, go and improve them
Jul 11 09:37:44 <av500> but stop whining here
Jul 11 09:37:44 <stuk_gen> av500: but this is really a problem
Jul 11 09:37:47 <av500> it leads nowhere
Jul 11 09:37:53 <av500> I dont care if its a problem
Jul 11 09:37:58 <av500> if you dont like oe, use something else
Jul 11 09:38:22 <av500> nobody here owes you anything
Jul 11 09:38:31 <stuk_gen> but i'm not here to spam, i here to learn what is the best solution i can choice
Jul 11 09:38:39 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: go to a hardware vendor that offers boards that come with guarantedd-to-run support and application development hand holding, you will pay multiple times the price of the beagle. you will get the same hardware, but also that what you are complaining here so much.
Jul 11 09:38:39 <stuk_gen> angstrom is good
Jul 11 09:38:59 <stuk_gen> but for me there isn't documentations
Jul 11 09:39:05 <av500> yes
Jul 11 09:39:07 <av500> true
Jul 11 09:39:09 <av500> its fact
Jul 11 09:39:13 <av500> stop repeating it
Jul 11 09:39:19 <av500> we all know
Jul 11 09:39:37 <stuk_gen> maybe its a end step after using devkit board and after learn all about embedded linux
Jul 11 09:40:09 * LetoThe2nd doesn't care
Jul 11 09:40:46 <LetoThe2nd> the bottom line is always the same. its cheap, its open source, nobody owes you either documentation nor support.
Jul 11 09:41:13 <aholler> even people which are writing documentations have to make a living. Thats why you usually have to pay to get support.
Jul 11 09:41:13 <LetoThe2nd> if you want those, hire a paid supporter or chose industrially supported sulotions.
Jul 11 09:41:14 <stuk_gen> LetoThe2nd: this is my wrong choice
Jul 11 09:41:41 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: sorry, we are not responsible for what you choose/have chosen.
Jul 11 09:41:46 <stuk_gen> i was thinking open means more discussion,documentations
Jul 11 09:42:03 <stuk_gen> but its the opposite :) and this is strange
Jul 11 09:42:29 <LetoThe2nd> no, it means that anybody is free to write documentation at their leisure. thats a big difference.
Jul 11 09:42:45 <stuk_gen> because nobody have time to write documentations, some body that have knokhow don't always help
Jul 11 09:43:01 <stuk_gen> yes! this is the difference
Jul 11 09:43:20 <aholler> yeah, linux is totally undocumented
Jul 11 09:43:30 <stuk_gen> everybody can help write documentations but in the fact nobody write
Jul 11 09:43:33 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: pay someone to write the docs for you. i'm sure you will find a good contractor
Jul 11 09:43:59 <stuk_gen> but hey!
Jul 11 09:44:11 <stuk_gen> i'm repeat i'm not here to offense nobody
Jul 11 09:44:12 <LetoThe2nd> stuk_gen: its really the same thing over and over again that you are complaining. you want everything for free. and thats not how it works.
Jul 11 09:44:28 <stuk_gen> no!
Jul 11 09:44:35 <stuk_gen> you're are wrong
Jul 11 09:45:16 <stuk_gen> because when i have to build the recipes for qt powervr
Jul 11 09:45:33 <LetoThe2nd> ok. then i'm wrong. but i'm also tired, and i certainly have work to do (which i postponed for a *free* *open* *source* discussion just like you wanted to have). so go on, i'm out
Jul 11 09:45:54 <stuk_gen> LetoThe2nd: ok, thanks for your time
Jul 11 09:45:56 <aholler> why at all do you need those powervr-drivers? do you use opengl?
Jul 11 09:46:23 <stuk_gen> aholler: i tell when i build the powervr driver
Jul 11 09:46:46 <stuk_gen> i want add a patch to every to build that on oe embedded
Jul 11 09:47:04 <stuk_gen> but i don't find more help to do this
Jul 11 09:47:39 <aholler> powervr is proprietary stuff
Jul 11 09:47:43 <aholler> ask the vendor
Jul 11 09:47:54 <stuk_gen> you dont understand
Jul 11 09:47:59 <hitlin37> stuk_gen:u can look into other recipes for help
Jul 11 09:48:02 <stuk_gen> i have a qt powervr acceleration now
Jul 11 09:48:25 <stuk_gen> and maybe someone want that...
Jul 11 09:48:36 <stuk_gen> how using oe ...
Jul 11 09:48:54 <aholler> acceleration for armhf? ;)
Jul 11 09:49:14 <stuk_gen> ...ok
Jul 11 09:49:56 <aholler> guess why ubuntu hasn't it included
Jul 11 09:50:55 <stuk_gen> in conclusion...thanks to all partecipate to discussion and for your time, i think open source mean all can write documentation, all can partecipate, i using qt for many years and the community is very great.
Jul 11 09:51:04 <aholler> powervr only helps if you are really using 3d. otherwise it's better just to forget it and use armhf.
Jul 11 09:51:52 <aholler> it doesn't speed up 2d, especially not with qt
Jul 11 09:52:06 <stuk_gen> but for embedded is total difference, kernel is free, all is free, but documentations is old, and i think the people know how embedded works, try to keep itsself and not to other
Jul 11 09:52:27 <stuk_gen> aholler: i'm using opengl so its speed up
Jul 11 09:52:57 <stuk_gen> aholler: and the difference is without powervr all is done by cpu, with powervr some is demand to gpu
Jul 11 09:53:12 <stuk_gen> aholler: this is what my board do
Jul 11 09:53:30 <aholler> and yes, nobody here wants to spend his time to write documentation for you you wouldn't read.
Jul 11 09:53:43 <stuk_gen> for me?
Jul 11 09:53:49 <stuk_gen> for all not for me...
Jul 11 09:53:52 <av500> stuk_gen: no, its not like we try to keep it to ourselves
Jul 11 09:54:01 <av500> its just that it costs real time to write docs
Jul 11 09:54:11 <av500> and few people have that time
Jul 11 09:54:24 <av500> for the desktop, you write a doc and it applies to millions
Jul 11 09:54:34 <av500> for embedded, it might apply to a handful of people only
Jul 11 09:54:47 <stuk_gen> av500: a ok, maybe this can be the problem
Jul 11 09:54:58 <aholler> and is outdated in some month
Jul 11 09:54:59 <av500> so the cost vs benefit ratio is totally different
Jul 11 09:55:10 <stuk_gen> aholler: please
Jul 11 09:55:16 <av500> so your best chance is to be part of the effort
Jul 11 09:55:21 <av500> and learn a lot yourself
Jul 11 09:55:28 <av500> there is no other way
Jul 11 09:55:37 <stuk_gen> exactly i'm totally agree with you
Jul 11 09:55:42 <av500> you can go and buy books and courses, but they dont really help
Jul 11 09:55:45 <av500> you have to DO it
Jul 11 09:56:02 <stuk_gen> exactly...and do it...mean more more more time to test and learn
Jul 11 09:56:08 <av500> sure
Jul 11 09:56:16 <av500> your time, not mine ;)
Jul 11 09:57:11 <stuk_gen> yes i understand
Jul 11 09:57:25 <stuk_gen> but this is a chat :)
Jul 11 09:58:23 <av500> really?
Jul 11 09:58:40 <aholler> it's #42 ;)
Jul 11 09:59:22 <stuk_gen> so the solution for me is...trying with some distribution maybe spent a lot for ansgrom or try debian embedded, if fails i have to use some embedded linux company or in the bad case...windows ce :(
Jul 11 10:00:08 <av500> I dont see why you would need CE
Jul 11 10:00:28 <stuk_gen> because is a package with all
Jul 11 10:00:49 <aholler> except qt
Jul 11 10:01:02 <stuk_gen> no qt there is
Jul 11 10:01:14 <stuk_gen> but without dbus (linux)
Jul 11 10:01:30 <stuk_gen> but i haven't the problem of test every day id all works
Jul 11 10:01:46 <stuk_gen> if all works*
Jul 11 10:02:02 <stuk_gen> and if there a problem i paid license, and i have support
Jul 11 10:02:07 <av500> you dont need to test every day
Jul 11 10:02:10 <av500> what are you talking about
Jul 11 10:02:17 <av500> your SW will not go bad overnight
Jul 11 10:02:22 <stuk_gen> the problem with angstrom oe integrations
Jul 11 10:02:30 <stuk_gen> this go bad overnight
Jul 11 10:02:32 <av500> then DONT update
Jul 11 10:02:37 <av500> DO NOT UPDATE
Jul 11 10:02:45 <av500>  we had this disussion before
Jul 11 10:02:48 <stuk_gen> but its done automatycally
Jul 11 10:02:50 <av500> pick a release and stick with it
Jul 11 10:02:54 <stuk_gen> when i build image
Jul 11 10:03:02 <av500> its SW, it can be changed
Jul 11 10:03:18 <av500> and you question should be "how can I make OE not autoupdate every build"
Jul 11 10:03:28 <av500> instead of "whining, whining, whining
Jul 11 10:04:16 <stuk_gen> but why i have to modify the comportament of a program if someone have decide that every time run autoupdate?
Jul 11 10:04:32 <av500> sorry, dont understand
Jul 11 10:04:53 <stuk_gen> if oebb.sh run autoupdate every time
Jul 11 10:05:12 <av500> then make it not
Jul 11 10:05:18 <stuk_gen> i think is because the man that write the script think is good that autoupdate every time
Jul 11 10:05:38 <av500> its a script
Jul 11 10:05:40 <av500> read what it does
Jul 11 10:05:43 <av500> its open source
Jul 11 10:05:56 <stuk_gen> ok, but its not the unique problem
Jul 11 10:06:16 <stuk_gen> maybe comment some lines and the auto update is stopped
Jul 11 10:06:53 <stuk_gen> and this solve this for now, but for example i have a problem with a psplash
Jul 11 10:07:08 <av500> sure
Jul 11 10:07:12 <stuk_gen> but on internet there no documentation(sorry if i repeat)
Jul 11 10:07:26 <av500> then read the source code
Jul 11 10:07:31 <stuk_gen> here if i ask i dont have support ( and this is correct the time is important)
Jul 11 10:07:37 <av500> complaining here about missing docs will get you nowhere
Jul 11 10:08:05 <stuk_gen> ok i have to read source code
Jul 11 10:08:11 <stuk_gen> make debugging
Jul 11 10:08:19 <aholler> the web is full with docs about how to use psplash
Jul 11 10:08:22 <stuk_gen> write a patch and add to oe :)
Jul 11 10:08:31 <stuk_gen> aholler: no
Jul 11 10:08:38 <stuk_gen> aholler: psplash angstrom
Jul 11 10:08:48 <av500> stuk_gen: stop whining now and read source code
Jul 11 10:09:03 <stuk_gen> but its impossibile
Jul 11 10:09:16 <stuk_gen> for company this approcc
Jul 11 10:10:08 <stuk_gen> so thanks to all
Jul 11 10:10:18 <stuk_gen> i'm trying a different solution
Jul 11 10:14:48 <aholler> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=psplash+angstrom
Jul 11 10:16:09 <aholler> so nobody ever has written something about how to do that.
Jul 11 10:57:56 <aholler> hmm, maybe my next phone will be a jolla-phone ;)
Jul 11 11:14:56 <jkridner__> hmmm... from everything I've read, folks have been getting webcam capture working under OpenCV on BeagleBones, but I'm not able to replicate.
Jul 11 11:15:27 <jkridner__> I essentially get no camera detected or no frames captured, despite having /dev/video0
Jul 11 11:15:36 <jkridner__> I've tried a uvcamera and a PS3 Eye.
Jul 11 11:16:17 <aholler> try strace to find out what causes the problem
Jul 11 11:17:14 <aholler> if dmesg doesn't give a hint
Jul 11 11:17:33 <jkridner__> no hint in dmesg.  it just shows the camera driver loading.
Jul 11 11:19:00 <jkridner__> http://pastebin.com/Q4EVDFZ3
Jul 11 11:20:14 <jkridner__> hmmm... are all those gstreamer libs there or required?
Jul 11 11:20:30 <jkridner__> stat64("/usr/lib/gvfsd", 0xbe83f7f0)    = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
Jul 11 11:20:51 <aholler> no, neither gnome nor gstreamer is needed
Jul 11 11:22:50 <aholler> but that might depend on how opencv was configured
Jul 11 11:24:12 <jkridner__> I'm missing the failure.
Jul 11 11:24:46 <jkridner__> I know in the source, it is the line 'frame = cvQueryFrame(camera);' that returns NULL.
Jul 11 11:25:25 <jkridner__> I don't ever see /dev/video0 being opened.
Jul 11 11:25:31 <aholler> and camera is?
Jul 11 11:25:49 <jkridner__> no, I never see camera opened.
Jul 11 11:26:20 <jkridner__> I don't see what 'CvCapture* camera = cvCreateCameraCapture(-1);' returns.
Jul 11 11:26:33 <aholler> here is some minimal source: http://fpaste.org/FVgE/
Jul 11 11:28:30 <jkridner__> Error creating capture
Jul 11 11:28:43 <jkridner__> built using g++ -o testcap2 testcap2.cpp `pkg-config opencv --libs --cflags`
Jul 11 11:30:34 <koen> same here with the camera cape
Jul 11 11:31:01 <aholler> looks like a problem with your opencv
Jul 11 11:32:28 <koen> jkridner__: opencv is built with gstreamer support, since it can't cope with a recent libav
Jul 11 11:33:12 <jkridner__> k, but that shouldn't impact camera capture, should it?
Jul 11 11:33:30 <jkridner__> I've tried 4 opencv programs with 2 cameras and none of them capture frames.
Jul 11 11:33:46 <jkridner__> one of the 4 is aholler's above.
Jul 11 11:33:52 <aholler> try compiling it just with v4l-support
Jul 11 11:34:38 <jkridner__> well, now i've tried with both cameras.
Jul 11 11:35:26 <jkridner__> hmmmm..... I guess the people that have had it working are using Ubuntu or building their own?
Jul 11 11:35:44 <jkridner__> I was under the impression that folks running Angstrom had working camera capture.
Jul 11 11:35:48 <aholler> maybe
Jul 11 11:35:58 <jkridner__> i did upgrade to the 3.2.21 kernel
Jul 11 11:38:33 <aholler> here an strace looks like that: http://fpaste.org/H5wA/
Jul 11 11:40:09 <aholler> so you might want to use other configure options for opencv.
Jul 11 11:43:30 <aholler> or try uvccapture
Jul 11 11:56:06 <jkridner__> aholler: is this the source: https://github.com/csete/uvccapture ?
Jul 11 11:56:23 <jkridner__> looks a lot like http://www.twam.info/linux/v4l2grab-grabbing-jpegs-from-v4l2-devices that I tried
Jul 11 11:56:54 <aholler> ubuntu has one prebuild and there are floating some more versions of uvccapture around
Jul 11 11:57:05 <jkridner__> root@beaglebone:~/v4l2grab# ./v4l2grab -o test.jpg never returns
Jul 11 12:00:28 <stuk_gen> aholler: <aholler> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=psplash+angstrom  yeah a lot of old documentations :) great
Jul 11 12:01:58 <aholler> stuk_gen: learn how to use the extented search or write some documentation yourself
Jul 11 12:02:42 <stuk_gen> aholler: yes i'm writing a documentation of something that i don't able to install :P
Jul 11 12:03:54 <dm8tbr> stuk_gen: that's how most documentation is written. people document their struggle to get something working.
Jul 11 12:04:17 <dm8tbr> that's why I take most of such accounts with a bucket-load of salt
Jul 11 12:05:01 <koen> jkridner__: it looks like opencv was built without libv4l2
Jul 11 12:11:55 <aholler> jkridner__: I have to admit I haven't had much success with uvccapture. And the source doesn't look very usable ;)
Jul 11 12:13:02 <agmlego> stuk_gen: Just remember, the best documentation for a piece of software is its source code.
Jul 11 12:13:03 <aholler> don't know if the prebuild one from ubunutu works, maybe they have patched it to be usable
Jul 11 12:13:34 <stuk_gen> agmlego: true
Jul 11 12:39:42 <Just-in> How would one go about adding Bluetooth to the XM
Jul 11 12:40:23 <koen> jkridner__: if you change /etc/opkg/base-feed.conf to eu.feeds... you can get opencv 2.4.1 with libav and libv4l support
Jul 11 12:48:54 <agmlego> Just-in: USB Bluetooth adapter?
Jul 11 12:49:17 <agmlego> Just-in: Or something like the Blue-SMiRF on a UART port?
Jul 11 12:50:29 <Just-in> They may work. i have a side project i wanted to mess around with wanted to get Android running on this and would need bluetooth.
Jul 11 12:52:57 <jkridner> koen: thanks.
Jul 11 12:56:47 <jkridner> koen, aholler: so far, same result with uvccamera.  trying a couple more of the apps and then trying the ps3 eye
Jul 11 12:57:11 <jkridner> koen: fyi, I pulled down opencv_2.4.2-r0
Jul 11 12:57:17 <jkridner> not 2.4.1
Jul 11 12:57:35 <jkridner> not sure if the build options are visible somewhere.
Jul 11 12:59:55 <koen> jkridner: http://patchwork.openembedded.org/patch/31747/
Jul 11 13:00:31 <koen> jkridner: have a look at http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/angstrom/opencv-options.txt
Jul 11 13:00:48 <jkridner> k, so it seems right it is 2.4.2 then
Jul 11 13:02:36 <koen> jkridner: have you tried out the camera cape yet?
Jul 11 13:02:47 <jkridner> no.
Jul 11 13:02:56 <ant_work> koen: btw would you mind committing #30355 and #30771 ?
Jul 11 13:04:17 <koen> done
Jul 11 13:04:54 <koen> jkridner: so we're going to send out >20 kits without you or gerald having any hands-on experiences with them?
Jul 11 13:05:12 <jkridner> I used it in Dallas.
Jul 11 13:05:16 <jkridner> 20 doesn't sound like many.
Jul 11 13:06:02 <koen> you know who will receive them and what happens when the performance sucks (as it really does)
Jul 11 13:33:47 <stuk_gen> what is the temperature range of beaglebone? 0°C  +70°C ?
Jul 11 13:34:03 <av500> mine is at room temperature
Jul 11 13:34:46 <stuk_gen> but is not for industrial like -40°C right?
Jul 11 13:35:24 <av500> no
Jul 11 13:35:37 <av500> its a hobby/dev board
Jul 11 13:35:57 <av500> which does not mean it wont work at -40...
Jul 11 13:36:10 <av500> maybe the electrons will freeze
Jul 11 13:37:37 <stuk_gen> ok thanks i can't find this information on the official site
Jul 11 13:38:16 <agmlego> stuk_gen: No, I think that is in the SRM.
Jul 11 13:38:40 <agmlego> At the very least it is definitely in all the datasheets, the primary one you want to look at is for the OMAP chip itself.
Jul 11 13:38:43 <av500> in case of no info, assume its not *industrial*
Jul 11 13:38:50 <agmlego> ^^^
Jul 11 13:39:08 <stuk_gen> av500: hehe good
Jul 11 13:39:12 <agmlego> Besides, in general, *cold* will get you further than *hot*.
Jul 11 13:39:28 <stuk_gen> agmlego: good i'm searching the doc of chip
Jul 11 13:39:31 <agmlego> Meaning, you can usually push the cold rating way farther than the hot one.
Jul 11 13:40:10 <agmlego> stuk_gen: Remember to look up the exact, full part number. There are, I believe, industrial/military versions of the chip with expanded temp ranges.
Jul 11 13:40:21 <stuk_gen> agmlego: ok
Jul 11 13:51:05 <aholler> the processor isn't the only part on such a board
Jul 11 13:51:33 <stuk_gen> exactly this is the problem
Jul 11 13:51:52 <stuk_gen> so i think haven't industrial temp :)
Jul 11 13:52:15 <aholler> so get some industrial board if you need such
Jul 11 13:53:20 <stuk_gen> i only compile a list of positive/negative aspect using bone, but thank for the suggestion
Jul 11 13:57:50 <agmlego> aholler: No, but it is likely the most sensitive.
Jul 11 14:11:21 * phantoxe is now away: gone
Jul 11 14:12:13 * phantoxe is back from: gone (been away for 53s)
Jul 11 14:38:21 <koen> jkridner: libv4l was missing, opkg update ; opkg install libv4l
Jul 11 14:38:39 <av500> koen: you and your easy solutions
Jul 11 14:40:07 <angs> I have a beagleboard-xm. I try to read a GPIO (138) and output the same value that it reads to GPIO137. I get "bash: echo: write error: Operation not permitted" when I try to change GPIO138's value. Here is my code: http://pastebin.com/j161ZnJR
Jul 11 14:40:12 <angs> what do I do wrong?
Jul 11 14:41:23 <angs> even I stop the code, I get the same error
Jul 11 14:42:31 <jkridner> koen: still not working for me.
Jul 11 14:43:12 <jkridner> angs: did you set the mode to output?
Jul 11 14:43:33 <jkridner> read back 'direction' to make sure it is set properly.
Jul 11 14:44:36 <jkridner> also, make sure the GPIO isn't taken up by a driver.  There is a nice debugfs entry for that that I forget.
Jul 11 14:45:23 <koen> cat /sys/kernel/debug/gpio
Jul 11 14:46:20 <angs> this is the output: http://pastebin.com/t8sDYj2j
Jul 11 14:46:35 <koen> jkridner: I recompiled ahollers app and I get: http://pastebin.com/FScFqhtA
Jul 11 14:46:54 <jkridner> angs: it shows state as 'in', which is why you can't write to it.
Jul 11 14:48:16 <angs> when I apply 0V on that pin, the code still shows 1 as an output
Jul 11 14:48:16 <jkridner> koen: interesting.  I don't see those errors.  I only get 'Error creating capture'
Jul 11 14:48:46 <angs> do I need to configure something else than direction?
Jul 11 14:48:53 <koen> jkridner: did you install libv4l?
Jul 11 14:48:58 <jkridner> yes.
Jul 11 14:49:08 <av500> nice btw: http://www.oz9aec.net/index.php/beaglebone/476-turning-the-beaglebone-into-a-high-definition-ip-camera
Jul 11 14:49:12 <av500> jkridner: reblog
Jul 11 14:49:29 <jkridner> did I need to recompile the test app?  I did, just in case.
Jul 11 14:51:37 <koen> yes, since the old libs will be uninstalled by the opencv update
Jul 11 14:51:59 <jkridner> av500: done
Jul 11 14:53:09 <angs> what file do I need to edit to read current value of a GPIO?
Jul 11 14:53:58 <angs> although I do not apply any power now, GPIO138 (in) shows 1 for "cat value"
Jul 11 14:55:11 <jkridner> angs: I'm not following you that closely.  I thought your problem was you were trying to *set* the value.  Now you are trying to read it?
Jul 11 14:56:42 <angs> jkridner: my real purpose to read  value of GPIO138's pin. I notice my mistake why I get the error after your explanation. but I could not figure it out how to read its value
Jul 11 14:57:26 <jkridner> well, 'cat value' should show you the level on the pin if the direction is 'in'.
Jul 11 14:57:28 <angs> I want it to show logic 1 when there is 1.8V and logic 0 when there is no power. my code shows always 0 although there is no power applied
Jul 11 14:57:56 <jkridner> just because no power is applied, doesn't mean that it would float to 0.
Jul 11 14:58:09 <jkridner> for example, there could be a pull-up.
Jul 11 14:58:27 <jkridner> or, it might just float high.
Jul 11 14:58:40 <jkridner> did you actually *apply* 0V, meaning, did you ground the pin?
Jul 11 14:59:27 <angs> no, I just set the direction file as in
Jul 11 14:59:31 <jkridner> I thought you said earlier that 'cat value' shows 1, but you are saying your code always shows 0.  which one is right?
Jul 11 15:00:01 <angs> my code always show 1
Jul 11 15:00:14 <jkridner> k.
Jul 11 15:00:21 <jkridner> I'd guess it is floating high.
Jul 11 15:00:29 <angs> I thought it would show 0 if I do not apply voltage and shows 1 if I apply 1.8
Jul 11 15:00:30 <jkridner> put a 1kohm resistor to ground or so.
Jul 11 15:00:37 <angs> how can I set it so?
Jul 11 15:00:55 <thurbad> there are pull up/down options on the gpio balls
Jul 11 15:00:55 <jkridner> hardware.
Jul 11 15:00:56 <angs> 27th/28th pin?
Jul 11 15:01:33 <jkridner> (and those pull up/down options are controlled in the pin mux)
Jul 11 15:01:49 <jkridner> I don't have the SRM handy to see which pins....
Jul 11 15:01:57 <jkridner> but, if you are using GPIOs to sense the external world....
Jul 11 15:02:08 <jkridner> guess you'd better start controlling the external world if you want to test.
Jul 11 15:02:18 <jkridner> just because you aren't applying a voltage...
Jul 11 15:02:23 <jkridner> even if there was no pull up/down...
Jul 11 15:02:27 <jkridner> doesn't mean you'd have a 0...
Jul 11 15:03:05 <jkridner> because a pin can float at any voltage relative to other voltages for which there is no path.
Jul 11 15:03:50 <jkridner> it might be sitting at 1.2V, which might be enough to trigger the input into thinking it is high.... because the input has to pick that it is at one state or another, even though there are an infinite number of voltages it could be at.
Jul 11 15:04:01 <jkridner> undriven pins float.
Jul 11 15:04:12 <jkridner> they don't magically go to 0V relative to ground.
Jul 11 15:04:30 <jkridner> a floating input is a bad thing.
Jul 11 15:04:38 <jkridner> well, at least if you care about power consumption.
Jul 11 15:04:43 <angs> then how can I set the GPIO to read if there is voltage or not in the pin (and threshold for logic 0 and 1?
Jul 11 15:04:48 <jkridner> which is why you add pull-ups/pull-downs....
Jul 11 15:05:12 <jkridner> those keep input pins from floating in la-la land where they could cause excess current drain trying to figure out if the input is high or low.
Jul 11 15:05:24 <angs> actually I connected a sensor's alarm relay so it will give 1.8V when there is a motion, so it is not a continuous 1
Jul 11 15:06:15 <jkridner> if you are setting it to an input, then give it an input.  if you need to handle the case where input might or might not be there, use a pull-up or pull-down resistor, possibly the ones included on-chip that may or may not *already* be enabled.
Jul 11 15:06:37 <jkridner> k.  have you looked at the pin's voltage level using an oscilloscope?
Jul 11 15:07:42 <angs> no, I just used multimeter to measure the voltage
Jul 11 15:07:57 <angs> it is approximately 1.7V
Jul 11 15:08:19 <angs> I do not have an oscilloscope
Jul 11 15:08:19 <jkridner> so, reading a 1 makes sense, no?
Jul 11 15:09:02 <angs> yes
Jul 11 15:09:04 <jkridner> well, it will be difficult to detect those transitions without a scope, but I guess that is what you want to use your BeagleBoard for, eh?
Jul 11 15:09:54 <angs> I want my beagleboard to detect sensor's output (0V either 1.8V)
Jul 11 15:09:56 <jkridner> https://www.ridgerun.com/developer/wiki/index.php/How_to_use_GPIO_signals has some nice info on detecting edges.
Jul 11 15:11:20 <angs> I took a look at that page before, but I will read more carefully and try to understand it
Jul 11 15:12:33 <angs> apart from detecting edges, is it possible to set a threshold on a pin for logic 0 and logic 1?
Jul 11 15:14:47 <jkridner> koen, av500, aholler: even https://gist.github.com/1253534 gives me 'select timeout'
Jul 11 15:15:19 <jkridner> angs: the thresholds are pre-determined for digital input pins, so, no, you cannot change them.
Jul 11 15:15:36 <jkridner> 1.7V is plenty high though to detect as a '1'.
Jul 11 15:16:10 <angs> do you have any example source code to read a GPIO that a sensor or something attached?
Jul 11 15:16:16 <jkridner> 0V and 1.8V are excellent target voltages for input pins on BeagleBoard or BeagleBoard-xM.
Jul 11 15:16:52 <jkridner> for bonescript, I've just been looping back output pins to input pins.
Jul 11 15:17:15 <jkridner> no reason that should behave differently than a properly configured externally generated signal.
Jul 11 15:17:51 <jkridner> a resistor to ground or to 1.8V is an excellent way to test your software.
Jul 11 15:19:58 <angs> the ground to the GPIO input, right? something like http://www.tigoe.net/pcomp/code/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/analogin-resistor.png ?
Jul 11 15:20:36 <angs> GPIO138
Jul 11 15:20:39 <angs> in my case
Jul 11 15:21:18 <angs> I am asking it, just for me to understand clearly
Jul 11 15:30:50 <angs> jkridner: it works as I want with the resistor. thank you very much for your help
Jul 11 15:34:51 <agmlego> jkridner: Just out of curiosity, do you happen to have a favorite SOT23 N-channel FET that can be used directly off the 1V8 logic of the expansion header? Looking to do low-side drive of some things, less than 300mA at either 5V or 3V3, hate to use level conveters just for FETs.
Jul 11 15:35:20 <agmlego> But I have been having a hard time finding ones that switch on that low a Vgs. My standby BSS123 stops saturating at 3V3.
Jul 11 15:45:16 <aholler> jkridner: whatever that v4l2-stuff does, it only captures frames with size 0 here. But it does that without any error, so maybe the select is because of a broken usb
Jul 11 15:45:52 <aholler> jkridner: you might try to make frames smaller
Jul 11 15:47:52 <aholler> maybe it stalls when there flows to much data, I remember that koen has mumbled something about small pictures are working.
Jul 11 15:51:46 <aholler> which would be conform with what sometimes happens here, when I do an rsync over musb over bt on my c4 ;)
Jul 11 17:02:51 <EasyAt> Hey guys, so I set up my BB Rev C. with Angstrom.  I want to switch over to ArchLinux.  Do I need to reflash the NAND or will that automatically happen?
Jul 11 17:04:36 <mranostay> heh
Jul 11 17:05:56 <EasyAt> Yea, I'm really new to embedded systems
Jul 11 17:07:10 <av500> ignore the NAND
Jul 11 17:07:12 <av500> boot from sd
Jul 11 17:07:17 <av500> saves you a lot of trouble
Jul 11 17:16:28 <EasyAt> I think when I first put Angstrom on the SD it copied it to NAND.  Now, it always boots Angstrom even though Arch is on the SD
Jul 11 17:18:12 <EasyAt> Maybe something odd is up with my boot.scr?  Are newlines unnecessary?
Jul 11 17:18:46 <av500> yes, you can "install" angstrom to NAND
Jul 11 17:18:54 <av500> and still boot from SD by holding the USER button
Jul 11 17:19:16 <av500> I would erase nand, that way you always boot from SD
Jul 11 17:19:21 <av500> much easier for experiments
Jul 11 17:19:28 <av500> and stuff in NAND tends to get obsolete
Jul 11 17:19:37 <EasyAt> Okay, but a serial connection is neccessary to erase NAND?
Jul 11 17:19:41 <av500> yes
Jul 11 17:19:46 <av500> you need a serial anyway
Jul 11 17:19:56 <EasyAt> blah. time to take a trip to radioshack
Jul 11 17:20:06 <av500> because as soon as something goes wrong, we will all tell you: connect a serial :)
Jul 11 17:20:30 <EasyAt> hehe well ty :)  I'll try the user button
Jul 11 17:33:36 <EasyAt> Hm, so when I hold the User button down and boot, it no longer goes into Angstrom but has no DVI output
Jul 11 17:34:19 <EasyAt> time to get serial and just delete NAND?
Jul 11 18:28:16 <Crofton|work> do you guys watch Game of Thrones?
Jul 11 18:28:21 * Crofton|work assumes koen does
Jul 11 18:29:40 <Crofton|work> av500, you are being very pleasant ..
Jul 11 18:52:08 <mranostay> Crofton|work: should i torrent^H^H^H^H^H^buy that? :)
Jul 11 18:52:27 <Crofton|work> heh
Jul 11 19:05:38 <_av500_> Crofton|work: ???
Jul 11 19:05:56 <Crofton|work> the guy witht he serial cable :)
Jul 11 19:06:02 <Crofton|work> or without the serial cable
Jul 11 19:06:12 <_av500_> Crofton|work: yes, we watch sunburn barbie
Jul 11 19:06:34 <Crofton|work> http://visual.ly/game-thrones-math-nerds
Jul 11 19:42:43 <jsabeaudry> I haven't had much time to keep up with bone kernels in the last weeks, is the preempt kernel working fine now?
Jul 11 19:46:15 <bingo> Hi people... I've made a decision to purchase a beagle board.... being a student aim is to maximize learning at the same time with cheapest board
Jul 11 19:46:35 <bingo> So I am confused between beagle bone and beagle board xM
Jul 11 19:47:09 <bingo> I might not be able to differentiate just be looking at the specs...
Jul 11 19:48:16 <bingo> Any help on selecting one will be greatly appreciated :-)
Jul 11 19:48:55 <prpplague> bingo: if cost is your concern, then beaglebone is a better choice
Jul 11 19:49:05 <prpplague> bingo: easier to do some basic electronics and learning on
Jul 11 19:49:22 <agmlego> bingo: Bone has a lot slower processor, but more readily-accessible IO. xM has a lot more processor, but less-accessible IO.
Jul 11 19:49:36 <koen> Crofton|work: season 2 is already over, I'm in the ~11 month wait till s3 :)
Jul 11 19:49:46 <koen> jsabeaudry: no
Jul 11 19:49:46 <agmlego> bone has no (native) video, xM has DVI over HDMI.
Jul 11 19:50:14 <aholler> and both don't have nand ;)
Jul 11 19:50:17 <prpplague> koen: for what show?
Jul 11 19:53:13 <bingo> prpplague: I have played with 8051 earlier but I'm taking OS course this semester...so wanted to do some project on linux
Jul 11 19:53:25 <koen> prpplague: game of thrones
Jul 11 19:53:26 <_av500_> prpplague: sunburn barbie
Jul 11 19:53:29 <prpplague> koen: ahh
Jul 11 19:53:34 <prpplague> _av500_: hehe
Jul 11 19:53:58 <prpplague> koen: i have been googling around, but i haven't seen anything on a new season of "Death in Paradise"
Jul 11 19:54:02 <aholler> bingo: if you want to learn linux, just use some live-cd like knoppix.
Jul 11 19:54:19 <aholler> or install linux on your pc
Jul 11 19:55:01 <bingo> agmlego: what do you mean by xM does not have IO accessible easily ? are they used for their alternate functions ?
Jul 11 19:56:20 <bingo> My basic OS course is over; I'm taking emebedded OS this time...
Jul 11 19:56:30 <agmlego> bingo: More of the xM's IO is either not broken out, or is heavily overloaded (as in, many functions for one pin).
Jul 11 19:57:08 <agmlego> bingo: The bone is intended for embedded applications that deal with the environment, while the xM was more aimed at mobile software development.
Jul 11 19:57:44 <koen> prpplague: I heard it has been approved, no idea on dates yet
Jul 11 19:57:55 <prpplague> koen: ahh dandy
Jul 11 19:59:01 <aholler> bingo: the basic os is the same on the pc as on an arm, linux. an embedded os usually is something else than linux
Jul 11 19:59:42 <bingo> basic OS on PC... so I know to configure and build kernel and install etc
Jul 11 20:00:10 <bingo> embedded OS two options are there: Threadx or Linux
Jul 11 20:00:23 <agmlego> bingo: A whole lot more than those exist.
Jul 11 20:00:25 <agmlego> ;-P
Jul 11 20:00:58 <agmlego> Contiki, vxworks, and a whole slew of RTOS varieties, just to name a few.
Jul 11 20:01:02 <bingo> My college offers those two only... possibly they get some funds from them ... ;-)
Jul 11 20:01:24 <agmlego> bingo: Or, more likely, you have professors whodo research with them.
Jul 11 20:01:52 <agmlego> Besides, in any course, you have to choose what to leave in and what not to--impossible to cover every variant of every OS out there in a semester.
Jul 11 20:02:06 <bingo> linux many do.. but Threadx I do not know.... but I dont wanna take that since its not open source
Jul 11 20:02:38 <agmlego> ::shrugs::
Jul 11 20:02:43 <aholler> o, if they explicit are talking about embedded linux, than a bone might be the right choice
Jul 11 20:02:45 <agmlego> Linux works nicely.
Jul 11 20:05:18 <bingo> So my aim is to get familiar with boot loaders, cross-compilers, creating rootfile systems, MTD utilities, and as much as device(video, audio,framebuffer,touch screen,pwm,I2c,USB) drivers as possible
Jul 11 20:05:32 <agmlego> bingo: xM, then.
Jul 11 20:05:37 <aholler> I'm no, c4
Jul 11 20:05:43 <aholler> s/I'm//
Jul 11 20:05:49 <agmlego> Well, OK.
Jul 11 20:05:53 <aholler> xm and bone aren
Jul 11 20:05:58 <aholler> 't having nand
Jul 11 20:05:58 <agmlego> Can you even still buy C4s anywhere?
Jul 11 20:06:25 <aholler> or get some sam9
Jul 11 20:06:29 <agmlego> I was assuming bingo was tryingto get something in the current market.
Jul 11 20:06:40 <agmlego> Which...xM and bone are both available for sale.
Jul 11 20:06:49 <bingo> If they dont have nand then what do they have... I learnt only NAnd or NOr are possibilities ?
Jul 11 20:07:01 <aholler> sd-cards
Jul 11 20:07:41 <aholler> bingo: just ask on of the teachers what board they are discussing
Jul 11 20:07:56 <agmlego> bingo: The NAND flash aholler is talking about is storage on the boarditself for OS and such. The older version of the BeagleBoard (the C4) had this. They took it off the xM, and the bone never had it.
Jul 11 20:08:13 <agmlego> bingo: But it is not really that big a loss--microSD cards are cheap and easily attained.
Jul 11 20:08:34 <aholler> that isn't the point if he want to learn about mtd
Jul 11 20:09:18 <agmlego> Nope, but there are a whole lot of other things mentioned.
Jul 11 20:09:26 <agmlego> And, again., the C4 is a rare bird these days.
Jul 11 20:10:06 <bingo> My teachers were talking about some samsung based board
Jul 11 20:10:11 <aholler> as said, a sam9 is usable too as a vehicle to learn embedded stuff. and much cheaper
Jul 11 20:10:16 <agmlego> Yeah.
Jul 11 20:10:29 <agmlego> And there is always the Raspberry Pi. ;-P
Jul 11 20:10:35 <bingo> sam 9 will it be cheaper than beagle ?
Jul 11 20:10:50 <agmlego> bingo: Yes.
Jul 11 20:11:21 <bingo> could you let me know any board with good community support ?
Jul 11 20:11:30 <agmlego> bingo: On the other hand, there seems to be a larger support community around the beagle products.
Jul 11 20:11:34 <bingo> like beagle...
Jul 11 20:11:43 <agmlego> The pandaboard has a pretty big community.
Jul 11 20:11:48 <agmlego> Um..Chumby.
Jul 11 20:11:56 <agmlego> Raspberry Pi.
Jul 11 20:12:00 <bingo> but thet's too costly I checked..
Jul 11 20:12:11 <agmlego> The Pi? $35.
Jul 11 20:12:27 <Riastradh> The Raspberry Pi is $35, if you can get one...
Jul 11 20:12:32 <aholler> bingo: buy what the teacher uses
Jul 11 20:15:00 <bingo> aholler: I want to invest in something which might be useful to me even after the class... and anyways teachers use will be available in college labs...
Jul 11 20:15:40 <bingo> The Pi? $35. : seems to be ATmega... I want ARM
Jul 11 20:15:44 <agmlego> bingo: I would still personally go with the xM or the pandaboard.
Jul 11 20:15:54 <agmlego> But I am partial to them, having used them in other projects.
Jul 11 20:16:01 <agmlego> bingo: NO. Pi is ARM.
Jul 11 20:16:44 <djlewis> is gumstix in the running thses days?
Jul 11 20:17:23 <bingo> Ok right.... initially it was "In 2006, early concepts of the Raspberry Pi were based on the Atmel ATmega644 microcontroller. "
Jul 11 20:18:15 <agmlego> djlewis: They are pricey and slow, but they do still exist.
Jul 11 20:18:26 <agmlego> bingo: Yeah, long, long ago.
Jul 11 20:18:49 <agmlego> bingo: Actual shipping Pi's are a Broadcom ARM SoC.
Jul 11 20:19:02 <bingo> ok
Jul 11 20:19:17 <bingo> Do they have community support...
Jul 11 20:19:32 <agmlego> bingo: But "shipping" is a misnomer--more like, you pay for it, forget you bought it, and get a pleasant surprise a few months later.
Jul 11 20:19:39 <agmlego> bingo: Very, very much so.
Jul 11 20:19:45 <agmlego> bingo: Like, the entire Internet right now.
Jul 11 20:19:53 <agmlego> It is a popular board at the moment. ;-P
Jul 11 20:21:28 <bingo> g8 guys.... I have a budget of around $200
Jul 11 20:21:49 <bingo> possibly I can accomodate a Pi in this.... ;-)
Jul 11 20:21:52 <agmlego> bingo: What other than the board do you want to get?
Jul 11 20:22:08 <bingo> I was planning for a jtag ?
Jul 11 20:22:17 <bingo> is it possible ?
Jul 11 20:22:20 <bingo> any hobby jtag...
Jul 11 20:22:27 <agmlego> The xM is around $150, the PandaBoard is around $180, the bone is around $80-90, Pi is $35.
Jul 11 20:22:44 <agmlego> Um...many of the boards support JTAG, but I am not really sure what you woulod be doing with it.
Jul 11 20:23:00 <djlewis> a popular pi that hasnt been road tested yet ;)
Jul 11 20:23:16 <agmlego> djlewis: There is that.
Jul 11 20:23:32 <bingo> as I told earlier I just want o learn how to use tools in embedded linux...
Jul 11 20:23:55 <agmlego> bingo: With any of them, you will get an SD (or microSD) card with them, but those tend to be small (4GB is typical) so you may want to get a larger one.
Jul 11 20:24:17 <agmlego> You may want to get various video adapters, power supplies, etc. to actually powe rup the board.
Jul 11 20:24:22 <agmlego> Things like that.
Jul 11 20:24:50 <bingo> agmlego: wait are these not included in the package
Jul 11 20:24:57 <agmlego> bingo: Not generally, no.
Jul 11 20:25:33 <agmlego> A 5V, 2-3A power supply is pretty much mandatory except with the bone (and the Pi?) as it can run off USB.
Jul 11 20:26:00 <agmlego> The xM (and Pandaboard, probably) need an HDMI to DVI adapter, since they run DVI signalling over HDMI.
Jul 11 20:26:07 <agmlego> *over an HDMI port.
Jul 11 20:26:32 <agmlego> bingo: These requirements are all listed on the "What To Buy" section of the relevant projects' wikis.
Jul 11 20:26:54 <agmlego> But no, the board itself does not come with a lot of stuff--it is a development board, not an iPod. ;-P
Jul 11 20:27:20 <bingo> sure I'll have a check on that... ;-)
Jul 11 20:27:49 <agmlego> bingo: Your bestest friend in the world is http://elinux.org
Jul 11 20:27:58 <agmlego> bingo: YOur second bestest friedn is Google.
Jul 11 20:28:39 <bingo> But I saw one board called mini2440 from friendly ARM that too is pretty cheap too... that had board + touch screen + power supply + serial cables + Parport Jtag
Jul 11 20:28:54 <agmlego> bingo: Also note that if you want to do things like wifi or bluetooth, only the Pandaboard has that built in--the others will need a USB or UART adapter for those.
Jul 11 20:28:56 <bingo> thst why I asumed every bioard will be proving it
Jul 11 20:29:12 <agmlego> bingo: YOu know what happens when you assume things, right? ;-P
Jul 11 20:30:07 <bingo> hehehe... good that I came to the IRC... you people are my saviours... thanks a lot guyz
Jul 11 20:31:21 <bingo> But still looking at community support I want to go with beagle board xM... but have a few questions to be answered yet...
Jul 11 20:31:50 <agmlego> bingo: Go for it.
Jul 11 20:31:51 <bingo> You told it does not have Nand/NOR but SDCARD... then how does it boot up ?
Jul 11 20:32:05 <agmlego> u-boot loads the kernel off the sd card.
Jul 11 20:32:19 <aholler> btw. watterott still has the c4/5.
Jul 11 20:32:25 <agmlego> (or off the network, or off a USB flash drive, or...)
Jul 11 20:32:46 <bingo> where is it loaded then ... it should be loaded into XIP memory and SD is not one...
Jul 11 20:33:34 <_av500_> into SDRAM
Jul 11 20:33:46 <jsabeaudry> No screw holes on the R Pi?
Jul 11 20:33:50 <_av500_> no
Jul 11 20:33:52 <agmlego> bingo: Into RAM.
Jul 11 20:34:02 <agmlego> bingo: Like every other computer. ;-P
Jul 11 20:34:23 <bingo> but who loads it...uboot is a boot loader and that si supposed to be the fiorst thing to run...
Jul 11 20:34:37 <agmlego> bingo: Yeah?
Jul 11 20:34:41 <_av500_> the ROM code
Jul 11 20:34:42 <bingo> *is
Jul 11 20:34:47 <agmlego> uboot *is* the first thing that runs.
Jul 11 20:34:50 <_av500_> no
Jul 11 20:34:51 <mru> no
Jul 11 20:34:54 <_av500_> ROM is 1st
Jul 11 20:34:56 <_av500_> MLO 2nd
Jul 11 20:34:59 <_av500_> uboot 3rd
Jul 11 20:35:00 <agmlego> After the BIOS/ROM code loads *it* into RAM.
Jul 11 20:35:08 <agmlego> _av500_: Right, i was getting there.
Jul 11 20:35:26 <bingo> ROM I know...whats MLO ?
Jul 11 20:35:30 <_av500_> a loader
Jul 11 20:35:38 <_av500_> small enough to fit into SRAM
Jul 11 20:35:50 <_av500_> to setup clocks and SDRAM
Jul 11 20:35:53 <_av500_> and load uboot
Jul 11 20:36:03 <djlewis> kinda synomous to a pc bios
Jul 11 20:36:09 <bingo> ok
Jul 11 20:36:15 <agmlego> bingo: The whole boot process is documented in the xM SRM, or System Reference Manual.
Jul 11 20:36:26 <agmlego> Which is a very good resource.
Jul 11 20:37:13 <bingo> agmlego: thx have taken a note about it
Jul 11 20:37:51 <bingo> I guess ROM code does not change.... Can MLO be changed ?
Jul 11 20:38:26 <agmlego> bingo: Yes.
Jul 11 20:38:46 <agmlego> I think that is the main point of JTAG onthe TI boards, but I am by no means an expert on that.
Jul 11 20:38:47 <bingo> and MLO is also stored on SD... in different partition
Jul 11 20:38:52 <agmlego> I deal witht he boards on a higher level.
Jul 11 20:38:58 <agmlego> bingo: yes.
Jul 11 20:40:09 <bingo> ok... does xM support any other method apart from SD boot... like USB boot... network boot
Jul 11 20:40:40 <agmlego> Yes, as I said above.
Jul 11 20:40:55 <agmlego> At 16:32 EST.
Jul 11 20:40:56 <agmlego> ;-P
Jul 11 20:41:29 <bingo> okie...sorry
Jul 11 20:41:56 <agmlego> Not a problem.
Jul 11 20:42:18 <agmlego> I *think* it might even be able to boot over UART/RS232, but I could be wrong on that.
Jul 11 20:42:29 <mru> djlewis: it is nothing like a pc bios
Jul 11 20:43:56 <bingo> But in PC BIOS we have options and defaults where the BIOS looks for OS....
Jul 11 20:44:12 <agmlego> Yeah, and u-boot has that.
Jul 11 20:44:15 <agmlego> not sure MLO does.
Jul 11 20:44:17 <bingo> and that can be configured and changed
Jul 11 20:44:18 <_av500_> here the options are SYSBOOT pins
Jul 11 20:44:34 <djlewis> if the processor starts and gets instructions from onboard rom to perform pre boot functions as well as call an external routine in sdram to load a bootloader then I see it to be synonomous
Jul 11 20:44:34 <_av500_> bingo: anyway, it *does* boot in the end
Jul 11 20:44:39 <bingo> no but u boot always is loaded from sd card
Jul 11 20:44:44 <_av500_> no
Jul 11 20:44:57 <_av500_> it can be loaded from NAND, NOR, serial, usb
Jul 11 20:45:15 <_av500_> read the TRM of the OMAP3
Jul 11 20:45:19 <djlewis> or boot from network, that is in a bios as well
Jul 11 20:45:21 <bingo> on xM we dont have NAnd and Nor thats what I hear...
Jul 11 20:45:29 <agmlego> bingo: Right.
Jul 11 20:45:29 <_av500_> true
Jul 11 20:45:32 <_av500_> one is the CPU
Jul 11 20:45:33 <agmlego> But other things do exist.
Jul 11 20:45:42 <_av500_> one is the board that implements only a subset
Jul 11 20:45:59 <agmlego> bingo: In any case, this is *ealborately* spelled out in easy-to-access documents like the SRM.
Jul 11 20:46:31 <mru> djlewis: have you forgotten what the BIOS acronym stands for?
Jul 11 20:46:58 <djlewis> sure the name is antique but it is still called it today
Jul 11 20:47:03 <bingo> say I have uboot images at all places: serial, network,usb and sdcard... so what will take precedence ?
Jul 11 20:47:09 <mru> it still is it
Jul 11 20:47:25 <agmlego> Basic Input Output System, sets up hardware and loads the OS.
Jul 11 20:47:33 <agmlego> bingo: SD card is default.
Jul 11 20:47:42 <agmlego> bingo: You can change it to somewhere else easily.
Jul 11 20:47:48 <_av500_> bingo: read the SRM and the TRM
Jul 11 20:47:54 <_av500_> its all explained
Jul 11 20:47:57 <mru> and provides various services while running the os
Jul 11 20:48:02 <agmlego> bingo: No precedence as far as I know, there is one and only one location it looks at any given boot.
Jul 11 20:48:07 <_av500_> no
Jul 11 20:48:18 <_av500_> depending on boot mode, it tries several things
Jul 11 20:48:23 <agmlego> _av500_: OK.
Jul 11 20:48:29 <_av500_> like e.g. NAND->USB->serial or so
Jul 11 20:48:35 <aholler> mlo (u-boot.spl) dictates from where u-boot does come from
Jul 11 20:48:36 <agmlego> I really ought to stop talking about things I have not fiddled with.
Jul 11 20:48:45 <mru> mlo goes away when u-boot starts
Jul 11 20:48:45 <_av500_> so in the factory, it would boot from usb then NAND is flashed etc...
Jul 11 20:48:48 <agmlego> But then again, this is the Internet.
Jul 11 20:49:08 <mru> and u-boot goes away when the os starts
Jul 11 20:49:13 <aholler> and some hw-pins a responsible whatways to load mlo are tries
Jul 11 20:49:22 <aholler> tried
Jul 11 20:49:37 <mru> the rom does provide a few services used by the os
Jul 11 20:49:51 <aholler> on omap too?
Jul 11 20:49:59 <aholler> security stuff I assume
Jul 11 20:50:44 <mru> omap gp chips need rom to do a bunch of things
Jul 11 20:51:33 <aholler> what does gp stand for?
Jul 11 20:51:45 <mru> not hs or emu
Jul 11 20:52:49 <aholler> hmm, I've never seen something in the kernel which calls some rom-code
Jul 11 20:54:41 <mru> on omap4 it does
Jul 11 20:55:24 <aholler> ah, ok, therefor I've missed it.
Jul 11 20:55:34 <bingo> agmlego and aholler : any other AT9 board which is cheaper apart from Raspberry... I just looked for pi...it looks like it might not arrive in time...possibly by then my semester will b over :-(
Jul 11 20:55:54 <djlewis> by then your life might be over ;)
Jul 11 20:55:59 <aholler> stmicro has some cheap boards too, about 12$ or such
Jul 11 20:56:04 <_av500_> there are some ROM calls for some secure services that a secure boot loader can use
Jul 11 20:56:08 <_av500_> afaik
Jul 11 20:56:33 <aholler> that arm-trustzone stuff maybe
Jul 11 20:56:39 <bingo> Are they ARM and run Linux ?
Jul 11 20:56:47 <djlewis> iirc there was a arm netbook project several years back that was supposed to be god's gift but it never seemed to mature either
Jul 11 20:56:57 <aholler> bingo: yes, some of them
Jul 11 20:57:00 <djlewis> pay first and maybe you will get your netbook...
Jul 11 20:57:05 <_av500_> djlewis: just wait, 2013 will be the year of arm netbooks
Jul 11 20:57:09 <agmlego> bingo: You might get somewhere by searching for "ARM linux hobbyist" in Google. ;-P
Jul 11 20:57:11 <djlewis> lol
Jul 11 20:57:14 <Riastradh> There is the Genesi Efika MX.
Jul 11 20:57:20 <aholler> bingo: but they are as slow as sam9
Jul 11 20:57:22 <_av500_> sure
Jul 11 20:57:26 <_av500_> sells like hotcakes
Jul 11 20:57:27 <agmlego> _av500_: And of desktop Linux? ;-P
Jul 11 20:57:32 <_av500_> agmlego: no
Jul 11 20:57:40 <_av500_> desktop is dead
Jul 11 20:58:22 <mru> yep, have running fullscteen apps on your 27" monitor
Jul 11 20:58:26 <bingo> what about ATOM based netbooks ?
Jul 11 20:58:28 <mru> +fun
Jul 11 20:58:41 <aholler> av500: you mean locked arm netbooks?
Jul 11 20:59:15 <agmlego> bingo: What about them? YOu wanted ARM embedded boards. ;-P
Jul 11 20:59:31 <mru> embedded in netbooks
Jul 11 20:59:32 <djlewis> yeah! lets get back to basics !
Jul 11 20:59:50 <mru> gwbasic
Jul 11 20:59:50 <bingo> nono...I was commented about the discussion for ARM netbooks
Jul 11 20:59:56 <agmlego> Ah.
Jul 11 21:00:00 <xxiao> http://2012.texaslinuxfest.org/sessions
Jul 11 21:00:04 <agmlego> Well, Atom netbooks are all over the place.
Jul 11 21:00:04 <xxiao> anyone going?
Jul 11 21:00:13 <agmlego> Not special in any way, really.
Jul 11 21:00:21 <aholler> bingo: those pogoplugs are cheap too. and they have nand
Jul 11 21:00:44 <aholler> I'm using something similiar as my 24/7 home-server
Jul 11 21:01:12 <aholler> or look for sheevaplugs, but they have a bad power plug, I've heard
Jul 11 21:01:25 <aholler> arm-devices are available everywhere
Jul 11 21:02:35 <aholler> even as tablets, maybe such is an alternative
Jul 11 21:03:02 <aholler> some of them are can be unlocked.
Jul 11 21:03:16 <djlewis> i htought he wanted to easily interface hardware with his choice
Jul 11 21:03:21 <agmlego> Yeah.
Jul 11 21:03:35 <agmlego> Which a tablet is *really* hard to do.
Jul 11 21:03:36 <djlewis> back to the Bone
Jul 11 21:03:39 <aholler> usb
Jul 11 21:03:53 <agmlego> aholler: Not on a tablet, a lot of the time.
Jul 11 21:04:07 <aholler> agmlego: ?
Jul 11 21:04:14 <agmlego> aholler: USB host.
Jul 11 21:04:27 <aholler> just ask the master in this channel ;)
Jul 11 21:04:35 <agmlego> ::shrugs::
Jul 11 21:04:59 <agmlego> In any case, a tablet is not really the right tool for the job if bingo wants to do hardware-level interfacing.
Jul 11 21:05:05 * djlewis wishes he had a cold beer
Jul 11 21:05:16 <agmlego> The right tool is a dev board, like the bone, xM, pandaboard, gumstix, Pi, etc.
Jul 11 21:05:21 <agmlego> djlewis: So get one?
Jul 11 21:05:37 <djlewis> I will in about three hours
Jul 11 21:05:51 <agmlego> djlewis: West Coast?
Jul 11 21:06:05 <bingo> Hey guyz... thx for all the help...now i GUESS I am better equipped to take my decision... still I feel I'll go with xM...
Jul 11 21:06:34 <djlewis> hey! is there metric/sae versions of time terminology like hour / centihour?
Jul 11 21:06:35 <aholler> as said, you will miss the nand-experience with that
Jul 11 21:06:54 <djlewis> agmlego: central arkansas
Jul 11 21:07:10 <smplman> anyone know where i could get some info on the SGX drivers for the XM running armHF?
Jul 11 21:07:37 <aholler> nowhere
Jul 11 21:07:43 <agmlego> djlewis: Ah, fair enough. SE MI here.
Jul 11 21:07:44 <bingo> hmmm.... ok agmlego what I'll miss if I go with bone ?
Jul 11 21:07:53 <agmlego> bingo: A lot of processing power.
Jul 11 21:08:03 <djlewis> not so much
Jul 11 21:08:11 <agmlego> bingo: The xM has a 1GHz ARM, with 512MB RAM.
Jul 11 21:08:21 <agmlego> bingo: The bone has a 700MHz ARM with 256MB RAM.
Jul 11 21:08:33 <agmlego> bingo: Also, the xM has onboard video out, while the bone does not.
Jul 11 21:08:34 <bingo> that I can sacrifice... I want it as learning tool
Jul 11 21:08:34 <aholler> the c4 has nand, 256mb and 720ghz
Jul 11 21:08:49 <djlewis> agmlego: i am all the time seeing newbie posts trying to squueze 1Ghz from the XM
Jul 11 21:08:54 <aholler> s/ghz/mhz/
Jul 11 21:08:54 <agmlego> bingo: On the other hand, the bone is cheaper, and has a lot more exposed IO.
Jul 11 21:08:57 <bingo> Tell me in terms of any HW feature or drivers which will not be available
Jul 11 21:09:12 <bingo> or interfaces ...
Jul 11 21:09:29 <agmlego> djlewis: Um...xM runs at 1GHz native, in my experience. No squeezing necessary.
Jul 11 21:09:35 <agmlego> bingo: ...
Jul 11 21:09:55 <djlewis> a big hdwre plus of bone over xm is bone is 3V IO while XM is 1.8V
Jul 11 21:10:01 <agmlego> bingo: You do not get onboard video out on the bone. You do not get as many USB ports on the bone.
Jul 11 21:10:09 <agmlego> djlewis: Theere is that.
Jul 11 21:11:04 <agmlego> bingo: Other than that, the biggest differences are porcessing power and cost.
Jul 11 21:11:25 <djlewis> a cheap usb hub takes care of the missing usb ports
Jul 11 21:11:49 <bingo> Bone: No video+ less processing power<-------->xM: Video + processing power
Jul 11 21:11:52 <djlewis> then a lcd addon to the bone for video and you are at the cost of the XM ;)
Jul 11 21:11:58 <agmlego> djlewis: Sure, or tapping into the USB lines on the expansion header.
Jul 11 21:11:59 <bingo> thats the only HW difference ?
Jul 11 21:12:13 <agmlego> bingo: Pretty much, yeah.
Jul 11 21:12:56 <djlewis> there are many projects with Beagleboards and Bones published
Jul 11 21:13:08 <bingo> djlewis: add a LCD on bone... does xM has it by default ?
Jul 11 21:13:09 <djlewis> some actually work ;)
Jul 11 21:13:22 <djlewis> no
Jul 11 21:13:24 <agmlego> bingo: No.
Jul 11 21:13:41 <agmlego> bingo: There are "capes" (like shields for Arduino) for the bone.
Jul 11 21:13:49 <agmlego> bingo: One of those allows you to get video out.
Jul 11 21:13:56 <agmlego> bingo: Another one is an LCD.
Jul 11 21:14:11 <djlewis> cape! thats the word that I couldn't think of.
Jul 11 21:14:15 <smplman> bingo: i use a usb touchscreen lcd on my XM
Jul 11 21:16:07 <bingo> agmlego: so you mean a seperate HW module on SOC is there for LCD and video on xM...  but on Bone only LCD option is there ?
Jul 11 21:16:53 <agmlego> bingo: Sort of yeah.
Jul 11 21:17:07 <agmlego> bingo: Both the xM and the bone are *capable* of producing video output.
Jul 11 21:17:31 <agmlego> bingo: However, only the xM has the *connectors* to do so--in this case, and HDMI port over which DVI video is fed.
Jul 11 21:17:49 <bingo> ohh ok...
Jul 11 21:17:49 <agmlego> bingo: You can add a cape to the bone that gives it a video connector.
Jul 11 21:18:01 <bingo> cape ?
Jul 11 21:18:07 <agmlego> bingo: In addition, the xM has a header compliant to many LVDS LCD panels.
Jul 11 21:18:12 <bingo> additional mounting...
Jul 11 21:18:17 <agmlego> bingo: Like a shield for Arduino, but for the bone.
Jul 11 21:18:36 <agmlego> bingo: The bone does not have such a header, but there exists a cape that adds it.
Jul 11 21:18:37 <bingo> Arduino I never used :-(
Jul 11 21:18:56 <agmlego> bingo: It is a common concept on the Internet--terminology is easily researched. ;-P
Jul 11 21:19:27 <agmlego> bingo: Basically, a daughterboard that attaches via a common set of pins.
Jul 11 21:20:56 <bingo> ok...dauterboard I'm familiar with :-)
Jul 11 21:21:13 <agmlego> bingo: A shield is sort of a daughterboard, as is a cape.
Jul 11 21:21:57 <agmlego> bingo: The difference is, many shields (and some capes) can be stacked on top of each other, passing through the pins they do not use to the next one in the stack.
Jul 11 21:21:59 <bingo> so then it means effectively both xM and bone have video capabilities
Jul 11 21:22:08 <agmlego> Yes, just not immediately.
Jul 11 21:24:15 <aholler> just read the specs at beagleboard.org
Jul 11 21:24:48 <agmlego> ^^^
Jul 11 21:25:02 <bingo> xm is Cortex A8... what abt bone ?
Jul 11 21:25:17 <agmlego> Similar, but that is all listed on the webpage.
Jul 11 21:28:11 <bingo> Guyz ... just looked at this at bone feature list:"Single cable development environment with built-in FTDI-based serial/JTAG"
Jul 11 21:28:32 <agmlego> bingo: Yep.
Jul 11 21:28:32 <bingo> does that mean I need not buy a JTAG ?
Jul 11 21:28:41 <agmlego> Not for that board, no.
Jul 11 21:29:00 <agmlego> I am still not entirely sure what you need JTAG for on these devices.
Jul 11 21:29:17 * agmlego has yet to run into a situation where he needed it.
Jul 11 21:31:13 <bingo> may be during boot loader development ... or trying to see what actually happens during boot ?
Jul 11 21:31:18 <bingo> what do you say ?
Jul 11 21:31:32 <bingo> just for learning ...
Jul 11 21:32:01 <agmlego> I have no idea.
Jul 11 21:32:06 <agmlego> Not a part of the board I use.
Jul 11 21:32:29 <agmlego> I use them as little, powerful, cheap, power-efficient, Linux boards easily interfaced into other hardware.
Jul 11 21:32:55 <agmlego> Anything lower-level than putting Linux on an SD card is not something I do with them.
Jul 11 21:41:32 <bingo> ok guyz one more thing not connected to beagle in any way...
Jul 11 21:42:33 <agmlego> OK, go for it/.
Jul 11 21:42:39 <bingo> I have an HP laptop whose screen is died they say I need to replace the complete mother board... just because the Video card is gone
Jul 11 21:43:03 <bingo> But its an old laptop I dont want to go for that option....
Jul 11 21:43:20 <bingo> can I use it as a server in any way ?
Jul 11 21:43:36 <agmlego> Probably.
Jul 11 21:44:43 <bingo> but it has Win installed on it... and since Video is not working I dont have any display !!!
Jul 11 21:45:05 <aholler> I thought you already know linux?
Jul 11 21:45:12 <agmlego> ^^^
Jul 11 21:45:23 <agmlego> And it is pretty easy to install linux on a headless box.
Jul 11 21:45:38 <agmlego> Or, pull the hard drive and put it in something lelse, install linux, put it back.
Jul 11 21:46:10 <aholler> most installers can used by network too. boot a linux-cd which supports network, done.
Jul 11 21:46:26 <aholler> but this isn't #42
Jul 11 21:46:34 <agmlego> Notably, the debian installer supports installation over ssh.
Jul 11 21:50:32 <bingo> yes... that is from my school days...now i use Ubuntu :-)
Jul 11 21:50:40 <bingo> on different m/c
Jul 11 21:52:17 <bingo> networking on linux I'm not much into... ssh ?
Jul 11 21:53:19 <agmlego> bingo: Google.
Jul 11 21:56:28 <bingo> sure...will do
Jul 11 21:59:29 <Rich_> how does this work?
Jul 11 22:00:24 <agmlego> Rich_: Define "this"
Jul 11 22:00:41 <Rich_> Am I irritating a whole community of users with these newbie gaffs?
Jul 11 22:00:56 <agmlego> Rich_: What gaffes?
Jul 11 22:01:42 <alan_o> Rich_: I take it you're new to IRC, and you're here because you have a question. Go ahead and ask it.
Jul 11 22:04:47 <Rich_> ok, I have a question for anybody who already uses a beaglebone (by uses I mean writes C or C++ code for it). I have connected it to a laptop running linux and used minicomm to get the command line interface . I could  do my development on teh laptop and then  transfer files to it - execute from teh command line and start building from there, but isn't there a  better way to get started?
Jul 11 22:05:42 <agmlego> Rich_: How do you mean?
Jul 11 22:06:00 <agmlego> You could also develop directly on the bone, using minicom or ssh to get in.
Jul 11 22:06:17 <alan_o> yes, that
Jul 11 22:06:49 <alan_o> agmlego: what about the cloud9 stuff?
Jul 11 22:07:02 <alan_o> Does that have support for what he's doing? C/C++?
Jul 11 22:07:04 <alan_o> I haven't used it
Jul 11 22:07:07 <agmlego> alan_o: Never touched the stuff personally, and that is Javascript, not C/C++ right?
Jul 11 22:07:25 <alan_o> agmlego: I know it is Javascript, but I don't know what else it also might be.
Jul 11 22:07:55 <alan_o> agmlego: probably the easeist from where you are right now is to install a compiler on the bone using opkg
Jul 11 22:08:02 <agmlego> Um.
Jul 11 22:08:09 <agmlego> I think you mean Rich_. ;-P
Jul 11 22:08:22 * agmlego does not currently, nor has he ever, owned a beaglebone.
Jul 11 22:08:22 <alan_o> Yes, Rich_
Jul 11 22:08:31 <agmlego> xM, yes. Pandaboard, soon.
Jul 11 22:08:52 <djlewis> and a pi in the sky
Jul 11 22:09:21 <agmlego> djlewis: Nah, not really that interesting to me, TBH.
Jul 11 22:09:29 <djlewis> me either
Jul 11 22:10:02 <alan_o> Rich_:  http://cwraig.id.au/?p=516
Jul 11 22:10:02 <Rich_> Well, I'm used to using IDEs for code development and that means writing code on the PC because the bone won't  support teh graphics etc. for those tools. All I'm looking for is some knowledge about what people typiclly do for C/C on the board
Jul 11 22:10:45 <alan_o> Rich_: People do lots of different kinds of things. Building directly on the bone like in the link I just sent is probably the easiest.
Jul 11 22:10:53 <alan_o> others cross compile and copy files over
Jul 11 22:11:08 <djlewis> Rich_:  are you asking about applications?
Jul 11 22:11:12 <alan_o> Some use NFS
Jul 11 22:11:28 <Rich_> I like teh idea of building on teh board - I'll follow the link - thanks.
Jul 11 22:11:49 <alan_o> Rich_: There are probably better links
Jul 11 22:11:59 <Rich_> yes, I am writing applications and drivers.
Jul 11 22:13:30 <djlewis> isn't the real programmers ide of choice vi?
Jul 11 22:13:43 <Rich_> I plan to use NFS too, but it's another thing to do ... if you spend as much time writing code on RTOS and windows as I do, you don't get the chops for linux raht easily.
Jul 11 22:14:26 <Rich_> well, I concede, vi is manly, but slickedit makes a lot of very complex tasks easy.
Jul 11 22:15:14 <Rich_> any other suggested links - anyone (for a bonehead start to beagle development)?
Jul 11 22:15:34 <alan_o> http://elinux.org/BeagleBone
Jul 11 22:15:52 <djlewis> Rich_: i think of http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/
Jul 11 22:16:38 <Rich_> I have been there and found the cloud 9 stuff (nice for getting to teh i/o without having to know much about it) but I (maybe I failed to see it) didn't find much help there.
Jul 11 22:17:41 <Rich_> one more question - (I see the angstrom / open embedded link) - anybody use the ti linux kits?
Jul 11 22:20:27 <Rich_> thanks all, I have the angstrom, ti and cwraig stuff to look at. ciao.
Jul 11 22:31:56 <djlewis> beer time is getting much closer :)
Jul 12 00:27:42 <prpplague> just fyi for anyone interested, the call for participation for ELC-E end august 1 - https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/embedded-linux-conference-europe/cfp
Jul 12 00:37:53 <mranostay> hey prpplague
Jul 12 00:38:22 <prpplague> mranostay: hey
Jul 12 01:52:19 <jyoung> Using the latest angstrom built on BeagleBone - SSL doesn't work out of the box. Anyone else have this issue?
Jul 12 01:53:01 <jyoung> "curl https://www.google.com" results in "curl: (77) Problem with the SSL CA cert (path? access rights?)"
Jul 12 01:53:13 <jyoung> Non-http sites work fine.
Jul 12 01:56:23 <aholler> install certificates
Jul 12 01:56:54 <jyoung> how do I do that? The info I see online doesn't seem to apply to this distro.
Jul 12 01:57:11 <jyoung> Is there a package called "certificates"? (stupid question if there is not!)
Jul 12 01:57:40 <aholler> opkg list | grep cert, and read the docs for the distribution you are using, at least those for the package manager
Jul 12 02:00:29 <jyoung> already had ca-certificates, also tried ca-certificates-dev. No luck.
Jul 12 02:01:10 <aholler> then something else might be the problem
Jul 12 02:01:28 <jyoung> yeah
Jul 12 02:01:46 <jyoung> strange thing is that this is the case on the latest angstrom demo image for the beaglebone
Jul 12 02:01:53 <jyoung> worked in an older image
Jul 12 02:04:53 <aholler> check if all the symlinks for the certs are ok
Jul 12 02:05:31 <aholler> or read what curl means really with that message ;)
Jul 12 02:08:25 <aholler> I've just guessed
Jul 12 02:09:04 <jyoung> thanks for you help. I had already read the cUrl help. Not much help. I'm not sure what the symlinks are supposed to look like. I'll do some digging.
Jul 12 02:10:09 <aholler> every symlinkshould have a target
Jul 12 02:10:29 <jyoung> got a folder I should check in?
Jul 12 02:10:54 <aholler> after updates, sometimes symlinks are dead because the cert vanished but the symlink not
Jul 12 02:11:43 <aholler> maybe strace will bring some light
Jul 12 02:28:14 <jyoung> strace revealed that "/etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt" is missing
Jul 12 02:28:19 <jyoung> I don't have a pki folder at all.
Jul 12 02:32:13 <jyoung> woohoo! Created the folders, downloaded a ca-bundle.crt and it works!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 12 02:59:58 2012