**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 22 02:59:59 2012 Nov 22 03:27:01 why is my apartment 82 F with the heat off... Nov 22 03:32:53 mranostay: hmm, that leads into a number of really good jokes involving "hot air".... Nov 22 03:39:40 yes yes... Nov 22 04:47:26 mranostay, too many compute cycles? Nov 22 06:22:45 good moaning Nov 22 06:34:50 * KotH moans good Nov 22 06:35:08 you shall say it only once? Nov 22 06:36:09 ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGNVU5ZjlgA&feature=related Nov 22 07:55:00 woglinde: I want to profile different things. basically the system is still very slow and I would like to know why. Nov 22 07:57:09 woglinde: I would like to know the cache performance, and where time is spent. but currently I don't have any good numbers. I once used qemu to trace the executed code to get a feeling of where time is spent codewise. Nov 22 07:58:00 and I am currently using the performance counter /printf but I would like to get some better numbers. Nov 22 07:59:05 what is slow you? Nov 22 07:59:10 ups Nov 22 07:59:13 -you Nov 22 08:01:23 (I am porting MINIX to the beagle) and making a 1000000 system calls currently takes minutes Nov 22 08:02:02 mru's clock.c returns about 600M instructions/s. Nov 22 08:04:35 the caches are not enabled everywhere yet so I expect *way* better performance wheren that's done but still also on qemu things are slow. hence my question how I can get some better insight. Nov 22 08:07:37 why would you expect that many system calls to take less time? Nov 22 08:07:41 why do you port minix? besides i cannt hre Nov 22 08:07:44 hre Nov 22 08:07:49 help you Nov 22 08:08:12 Being able to use CCS with the ETB should allow me to get those numbers but that currently doesn't work for me. (http://e2e.ti.com/support/development_tools/code_composer_studio/f/81/t/225667.aspx) Nov 22 08:10:28 thurbad: because on x86 it takes a few seconds Nov 22 08:10:52 you're not on x86 Nov 22 08:11:22 I am part of the MINIX team and we are porting MINIX 3 to ARM. Nov 22 08:11:34 that's why :P Nov 22 08:11:36 think of it in terms of watts per instruction Nov 22 08:11:56 keesj: why not enable caches? Nov 22 08:13:29 enabling the chaces does realy help a lot (but it's not fully done yet). But as I am also testing on qemu I exepct the cache related changes to have 0 effect. Nov 22 08:14:02 In other words I would like to get some better profiling data so I know on what to focus but enabling the chaces *is* needed. Nov 22 08:16:24 MINIX because of it's micro kernel does a lot more context switches for a simple system call. Nov 22 08:17:19 thurbad: thanks for the hint I will try an measure the time it takes on Linux to do some unbuffered system calls Nov 22 08:26:05 perhaps someone accessed the ETB directly via memory. my JTAG setup (XDS100v2) work perfectly for the normal stuff (e.g. reading registers and uploading code). Nov 22 08:55:34 OS bad, QNX good: http://qnxauto.blogspot.de/2012/11/open-source-software-in-auto-time-thats.html Nov 22 09:01:59 av500 I think Android will also take a share. Nov 22 09:03:09 is GENIVI still using the dbus interface stuff? it all seams so "glued" together Nov 22 09:03:39 keesj: I have no idea Nov 22 09:03:45 ubus ftw! Nov 22 09:04:29 eubus Nov 22 09:04:33 "Raspberry Pi is the most successful embedded Linux board for all times, according to their blog they have sold over 500 000 pcs, although when they post something on their blog you never know it’s true or not from our own source we know Farnell and RS Components have sold at least 100 000 each by August this year, so the number may be not exactly 500 000 but still in 6-digit range." Nov 22 09:04:44 sure Nov 22 09:27:12 I would be way more interested to know how many of the purchased boards (beagle, panda, rpi) are actually used once the unboxing thrill is over... Nov 22 09:27:40 jonand: exactly Nov 22 09:28:00 all these people that thought they bought a $35 "computer" Nov 22 09:28:09 that is slower than their cellphone Nov 22 09:28:43 I don't think all the beagles are used either... they should all call home to the mothership and report! Nov 22 09:28:57 sure Nov 22 09:29:06 just that the entry price is higher so people think twice Nov 22 09:30:27 sure, that removes some noise. the bone added lots of noise due to the lower price point. Nov 22 09:33:43 what about all those cheap mk802 based dual core (Android 4.0) tv sticks, those might not be "open hardware" but certainly atractive to pleaple Nov 22 09:33:59 at $35 the bone is still nice for a "connected GPIO" Nov 22 09:35:56 I have a BB in my basement that I just use as a networked UART Nov 22 09:37:34 av500: bang all the household bits! Nov 22 09:38:03 LetoThe2nd: in fact I might bang a bit to reset my heating controller Nov 22 09:38:18 and add a webcam to detect the error state Nov 22 09:38:31 soon I will ask about openCV here :) Nov 22 09:38:44 hehe, got a heating controller that often feels like it is enough? Nov 22 09:39:00 its only 4ys old, so It should work Nov 22 09:39:07 need to bang on the heating guys a bit more Nov 22 09:39:12 "should" (TM) Nov 22 09:39:16 it's all still overpriced I think (my pogo plug for about 50 Euro was a better deal) Nov 22 09:39:34 what is overpriced? Nov 22 09:40:21 keesj: your heating controller? Nov 22 09:41:05 woglinde: aint you the java guy? Nov 22 09:41:05 All these boards including the beagle when you want to use it as consumer device. they are cheap hacking/developmen platforms but if you just want a serial over the network... Nov 22 09:41:09 a jvm on a 400mhz mips Nov 22 09:41:32 keesj: in that case, buy a commercial uart over eth for $199 :) Nov 22 09:41:40 the beagle is a consumer device? did i miss some memo? Nov 22 09:41:54 yes the serial might no be the best example. Nov 22 09:41:58 av500: or an industrial for 599$ Nov 22 09:42:29 not Nov 22 09:43:59 in the end, the price is secondary Nov 22 09:44:07 bone for 99 or rpi for 35 Nov 22 09:44:17 people will invest a multitude in time on it Nov 22 09:46:13 the smart people just unpack it and go on with their lives. The rest ... Nov 22 10:10:35 Hi, I have a question about the beaglebone ADC :) Nov 22 10:11:10 My problem is: I correctly read the analog inputs through sysfs, but this is too slow for my needs. Nov 22 10:11:31 I wonder if I would speed up things by reading the values directly from the registers. Nov 22 10:11:39 I.e. by writing lower level code. Nov 22 10:12:17 guido79: what you are referring to is generally called the devmem-hack ;) Nov 22 10:12:55 Very interesting. So it makes sense, I guess... Nov 22 10:13:24 and sometimes it's called wrong platform choice :) Nov 22 10:13:48 guido79: depends. usually it seems to make sense for those who are a) not capable or b) not willing or c) both to write a proper linux driver for their needs. Nov 22 10:14:06 guido79: yes, its the uC way of doing things, not the linux one. Nov 22 10:14:57 Ok, so the real question is: is the overhead due to opening a file, reading from it and the closing it really relevant? Nov 22 10:15:23 guido79: now _THAT_ is certainly not the real question. Nov 22 10:16:15 From C, I use fopen, fscanf and fclose. This way, I can't read as fast as I should, but I guess I would not speed up thing dramatically by writing my driver... Nov 22 10:16:31 guido79: completely wrong chain of reasoning. Nov 22 10:16:46 LetoThe2nd, that's why I'm here :) Nov 22 10:17:01 guido79: the point is that the mechanisms underlying the sysfs are just not meant to be particularly fast. Nov 22 10:17:38 I see, in fact their very useful for reading at slow rates in an easy way. Nov 22 10:17:41 guido79: on most driver architectures, you will have the file operations, because that is just a common linux way of representing things. Nov 22 10:18:01 guido79: for faster adc io, i'd suggest to start researching from here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/beagleboard/hZrkm5azOC0/GkgjdMnfEkYJ Nov 22 10:19:03 guido79: IIO is the industrial I/O framework, which is meant for exactly what you asked. i just do not know the current state, especially not for the beagle. hence, it might be necessary to write the "plug-in" driver for the beaglebone into IIO. Nov 22 10:19:28 the 3.7 kernel has iio support for the adc Nov 22 10:19:38 koen: \o/ Nov 22 10:19:45 haven't used it yet, but it is hooked into iio Nov 22 10:20:06 A very useful link. Nov 22 10:20:07 koen: we have a tester here :) Nov 22 10:20:27 Do you know this project I stumbled upon, in Python? https://github.com/alexanderhiam/PyBBIO Nov 22 10:20:54 guido79: erm, you talk about fast and then you mention _PYTHON_?!? Nov 22 10:21:11 LetoThe2nd: you took the words right out of my mouth :) Nov 22 10:21:17 LetoThe2nd, in fact, I'd like to find something similar, but in C. Nov 22 10:21:22 koen: .. by Meat Loaf. :) Nov 22 10:22:10 guido79: the proper way is called IIO (in c) and as you heard, it should be there. go read up on it and test it. Nov 22 10:22:46 This Python project features a function like analogRead(analog_pin), which does this: "return _getReg(ADC_FIFO0DATA) & ADC_FIFO_MASK" Nov 22 10:22:48 guido79: BTW, that python thing is just a wrapper aroung the devmem hack. Nov 22 10:23:04 Oh, ok. I understand. Nov 22 10:23:11 So, the way is IIO, I got it :) Nov 22 10:23:20 guido79: so its kind of like "the python way on your uC". you may choose for yourself how sane that sounds. Nov 22 10:24:09 I agree, I don't like it. Nov 22 10:24:27 koen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXuTD4vSF9E Nov 22 10:24:39 I don't think my beaglebone has a 3.7 kernel, but I could build a new distro. Nov 22 10:24:50 I'm gonna study the question. Nov 22 10:26:16 Thank you for the very important direction, I was totally ignoring IIO :) Nov 22 10:26:40 have fun. Nov 22 10:27:06 if possible, please report back what you find out, be it good or bad. thanks. Nov 22 10:29:47 If we go for it, I'll surely report back :) Nov 22 10:39:43 guido79: no need for a new distro, only a new kernel Nov 22 10:40:15 koen: distroallthethings Nov 22 10:41:09 koen, I see, there is the angstrom cloud9 distro which comes out of the box, installed. I think it would be not so hard to build the new kernel. Or maybe you suggest another distro, for my purpose? Nov 22 10:41:24 angstrom is the only one that works well on bone Nov 22 10:41:31 and is actually supported Nov 22 10:41:35 but I'm biased of course Nov 22 10:42:12 as the dutch saying goes: Wij van Wc-eend adviseren.. Nov 22 10:43:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsvHeLUOoxs Nov 22 10:43:38 Lol, I'll stick to the angstrom, since I've already setup a nicely working toolchain for cross-compilation from ubuntu ;) Nov 22 10:45:20 That we-eend commercial is always funny. Nov 22 10:46:00 toilet-duck ftw! Nov 22 10:46:13 yeah! Nov 22 10:47:58 OMG: http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-Printed-Circuit-Boards-for-solder-free-printab/ Nov 22 10:48:07 I have no words Nov 22 10:50:37 av500: i can hand you one. "whatever" Nov 22 10:53:06 yeah Nov 22 10:53:27 if all you have is a 3d printer, everything looks like .... Nov 22 11:02:27 * KotH just send that link to all internal eningeers :) Nov 22 11:03:00 :) Nov 22 11:13:15 solder free yeah Nov 22 11:14:14 when americans talk about RoHS I always have to repress a giggle Nov 22 11:14:22 since they pronounce it the Tolkien way Nov 22 11:14:28 Rohas! Nov 22 11:14:33 lol Nov 22 11:17:16 * LetoThe2nd is actually listening to a band often called playing "tolkien metal" ;) Nov 22 11:18:40 .o0(riders of RoHS! what news from the mark!) Nov 22 11:19:34 KotH: besides the king being a wary man? Nov 22 11:21:49 LetoThe2nd: blind guardian? Nov 22 11:21:56 koen: what else ;) Nov 22 11:22:00 LetoThe2nd: and listening to someone with a increadible stupid name? Nov 22 11:22:38 * LetoThe2nd just wonders what the rohs equivalent of the fangorn would be. Nov 22 11:22:46 LetoThe2nd: I might still have a BG longsleeve somewhere in my closet Nov 22 11:22:59 LetoThe2nd: dead wood only ;) Nov 22 11:23:29 koen: i so hope i would be the only metalhead at elc-e, but the longhaired guy at the xen booth was wearing a boltthrower shirt :) Nov 22 11:23:55 *hoped Nov 22 13:05:43 hm pearl is funny via ebay shipping kosts are 1,95 via normal webshop 6,90 Nov 22 13:06:58 at the same price? Nov 22 13:07:01 do they add the difference to the device price? Nov 22 13:09:24 woglinde: they lose money on every item, but they makle it up in volume..... Nov 22 13:09:28 hm but looks like they trick customers via ebay and shipping more pieces together with shipping costs for earch article Nov 22 13:09:59 well, then trick them by buying each one separately Nov 22 13:10:01 but I am searcing a new air pump Nov 22 13:10:32 is that like an air guitar? Nov 22 13:10:52 dont know what a guitar would help my bycicle Nov 22 13:11:24 don't you know that riding around with a guitar makes you cool? Nov 22 13:11:25 why not walk to the Fahrradladen? Nov 22 13:11:32 thurbad: +1 Nov 22 13:21:01 we only have hipster fahrradladen Nov 22 13:21:05 nearby Nov 22 13:21:22 ah right Nov 22 13:21:30 you are in hiptown Nov 22 13:21:43 and without a fixie, I guess they dont even serve you Nov 22 13:21:49 woglinde: did you see my question earlier? Nov 22 13:21:55 a jvm for a 400mhz mips Nov 22 13:22:11 you need one? Nov 22 13:22:35 jvm I mean Nov 22 13:22:53 maybe Nov 22 13:22:55 be quick Nov 22 13:22:58 ah Nov 22 13:23:08 hm try jamvm or cacao with classpath Nov 22 13:23:26 mayee jamvm and classpath works with openjdk on it Nov 22 13:23:38 ups jamvm and cacao Nov 22 13:24:23 or try avain Nov 22 13:24:28 never did that so far Nov 22 13:25:20 av500 what type of programs yu want to run? Nov 22 13:25:22 gui ones? Nov 22 13:25:42 okay have to clean out the bath Nov 22 13:25:44 till later Nov 22 13:26:15 all these greasy bike parts.... Nov 22 14:33:36 http://blog.dryft.net/2012/11/comparing-performance-of-raspberry-pi.html Nov 22 14:34:36 that "benchmark" makes phoronix look professional Nov 22 14:34:47 :) Nov 22 16:33:12 Newbie question: not sure about how to cross-compile the 3.7 kernel for beaglebone. I want to compile with arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc, but from the questions I have to answer, it seems to me I'm compiling for an x86 target... Nov 22 16:33:36 I've tried: make CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi- uImage dtbs Nov 22 16:33:54 also export ARCH=arm Nov 22 16:34:07 Uh, ok, let's try. Nov 22 16:34:38 Aw, now it's compiling! Thanks :) Nov 22 17:11:45 koen, I've successfully built the 3.7 kernel. I can't find the "ti_adc" driver, but maybe I don't need it. What I have to do to start writing an iio hello world which would get data from the builtin ADC of the Cortex CPU? Thanks in advance. Nov 22 17:13:40 Oh, ok, ''drivers/iio/adc/ti_am335x_adc.o" :) Nov 22 17:23:10 I think I should directly talk to the "IIO subsystem" instead of passing through sysfs to get data. Maybe with the iio_ring part. Nov 22 17:44:02 koen, in the next few days I'm going to test the IIO support for the beaglebone ADC included in the kernel 3.7, I think you could be interested. I will probably need a little kickstart for writing a testing application in C. Nov 22 18:34:18 guido79: I have no (intimate) knowledge of iio, but feel free to ping me whin you hit trouble Nov 22 18:36:25 Hi all, is there anyone here who got the time to help me investigate a boot issue? Nov 22 18:36:30 I tried to build a rom according to the instructions in TI-Android-ICS-4.0.3-DevKit-3.0.1_DevelopersGuide but I get a kernel panic on boot Nov 22 18:36:44 [ 2.198211] Kernel panic - not syncing: No init found. Try passing init= option to kernel. See Linux Documentation/init.txt for guidance. Nov 22 18:37:03 Here is the full output: http://pastebin.com/Z9g357bh Nov 22 19:03:06 Noone here who build a TI rom for the beagleboart willing to help? Nov 22 19:12:23 koen, ok, thanks :) I'm wondering what the application programming interface is to use... Data transfers will always pass through the sysfs, or there are API calls to directly query the iio layer? Nov 22 19:13:26 I have no idea, sorry Nov 22 19:13:38 there must be another way, since sysfs is just there for convenience Nov 22 19:16:05 Ok, thanks, you already have helped me a lot. The problem is that I'm having hard times finding the proper documentation. I'm going to email some iio people, thanks again. Nov 22 19:16:32 iio is pretty new, so not a lot of examples around Nov 22 19:16:40 but have a look in Documentation/ Nov 22 19:16:44 hello, is vanilla linux kernel booting on beaglebone? Nov 22 19:16:58 thweber: short story: no Nov 22 19:17:06 thweber: long story: only ramdisk and serial Nov 22 19:17:32 thweber: patches needed for normal operation: https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/tree/3.7 Nov 22 19:18:35 koen: thanks, will the other am335x boards boot with the github kernel? Nov 22 19:19:37 they should Nov 22 19:19:45 you might need to patch their devicetree Nov 22 19:19:49 but that's mostly copy/paste Nov 22 19:20:00 okay, i will try, thank you. Nov 22 19:48:25 Anyone can help me with the above question ? Nov 22 19:49:04 kernel_panic, what do you mean by ROM? Nov 22 19:49:51 <_av500_> [ 0.000000] Kernel command line: console=ttyO0,115200n8 androidboot.console=ttyO0 mem=256M root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rw rootfstype=ext4 rootwait init=/init ip=off Nov 22 19:49:58 <_av500_> do you have a file named init? Nov 22 19:50:56 <_av500_> [ 2.190429] Failed to execute /init. Attempting defaults... Nov 22 19:50:58 <_av500_> ah Nov 22 19:51:04 *g* classic Nov 22 20:17:47 <_av500_> kernel_panic: and? Nov 22 20:26:38 panto: i am building onto a mini-SD card Nov 22 20:26:54 using sudo ./mkmmc-android.sh /dev/sdf MLO u-boot.img uImage uEnv.txt rootfs.tar.bz2 Nov 22 20:27:14 that's not a ROM Nov 22 20:27:14 This is my uenv.txt contents: bootargs=console=ttyO0,115200n8 androidboot.console=ttyO0 mem=256M root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rw rootfstype=ext4 rootwait init=/init ip=off bootcmd=mmc rescan ; fatload mmc 0 82000000 uImage ; bootm 82000000 uenvcmd=boot Nov 22 20:27:23 that's a series of images Nov 22 20:27:46 Yes, you are of course right :) Nov 22 20:28:35 <_av500_> so, do you have /init? Nov 22 20:28:58 kernel says no Nov 22 20:29:04 .o0(ubuntu generation) Nov 22 20:29:18 _av500_: hard for me to say since it is built into the image, maybe I can check it in one of the build dirs Nov 22 20:29:33 <_av500_> you can just mount he card and type ls Nov 22 20:29:36 <_av500_> the Nov 22 20:29:38 Or maybe I can mount the disk Nov 22 20:29:43 <_av500_> or that Nov 22 20:29:46 Yes :) Which partition is it ? Nov 22 20:29:52 <_av500_> p2 Nov 22 20:30:03 <_av500_> root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 Nov 22 20:30:16 checking... Nov 22 20:30:48 kernel_panic: just for the statistics: how old are you, what's your educational background and how long have you been using linux (or *bsd)? Nov 22 20:31:27 hehe no i dont Nov 22 20:31:30 I have an init.rc Nov 22 20:31:34 but no init Nov 22 20:31:42 <_av500_> kernle said so too Nov 22 20:31:45 <_av500_> kernel Nov 22 20:33:16 I guess there has to have been some kind of issue during the build... But it did not complain Nov 22 20:33:34 * KotH feels ignored Nov 22 20:34:00 Isnt the "make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-eabi- uImage" command going to create the init binary ? Nov 22 20:34:22 hah Nov 22 20:34:23 Or is it rootfs I guess Nov 22 20:35:39 <_av500_> yes Nov 22 20:35:54 maybe you should figure out what you're trying to do before trying to do it Nov 22 20:37:02 _av500_: great, I wil try to rebuild the rootfs during the night, hopefully if I search the logs for init I will find some kind of issue Nov 22 20:40:05 KotH: 29, linux/bsd/osx on and off for about 15 years, have a bachelor in software engineering and a master in security engineering Nov 22 20:40:29 and that's the best you can do? Nov 22 20:40:43 yeah I would not hire him too Nov 22 20:40:49 kernel_panic: thanks Nov 22 20:40:51 once again we see proof that degrees mean nothing Nov 22 20:41:45 I wonder what courses he took in security engeneering Nov 22 20:41:45 kernel_panic: how many years if you substract osx (which is not a unix) Nov 22 20:42:01 osx is bsd based... Nov 22 20:42:07 not exactly Nov 22 20:42:09 koth osx not a unix like android? Nov 22 20:42:16 woglinde: nah.. Nov 22 20:42:19 you asked about unix / bsd* Nov 22 20:42:25 hi anyone here? Nov 22 20:42:30 no Nov 22 20:42:34 no, everyone has gone home Nov 22 20:42:35 hehe Nov 22 20:42:39 noody go along Nov 22 20:42:42 kernel_panic: *bsd does not match "osx" Nov 22 20:42:50 i am trying to use openCV, CMake and MinGW Nov 22 20:42:51 osx is a bastardised mach kernel with some bsd compat glued on, a largely bsd-based lowlevel userspace, and something completely different that users see Nov 22 20:42:55 i have some questions can you please help Nov 22 20:42:55 ? Nov 22 20:43:00 yeah opencv again Nov 22 20:43:02 kernel_panic: and no, osx is not a unix. it has part of a unix user land, but it behaves totally different Nov 22 20:43:05 wow and mingw Nov 22 20:43:10 mingw on beagle? Nov 22 20:43:11 cool Nov 22 20:43:24 KotH: osx at some point did conform to some version of posix Nov 22 20:43:31 kernel_panic: you can use osx as a unix replacement of sorts, but it will not fullfill the role of a fully fledged unix Nov 22 20:43:44 I never said that :) Nov 22 20:43:45 mru: windows conforms also to some version of posix Nov 22 20:43:46 so if i am using windows to develop some code... sorry if this is a dumb question... i write my code and then use CMake to build it right? Nov 22 20:43:48 koth windows nt was unix too Nov 22 20:43:49 but in terms of use and admin, it's totally different from any normal unix Nov 22 20:43:50 haha Nov 22 20:43:52 yes Nov 22 20:44:16 what option should i choose in CMake: MinGW or Visual Studio ? Nov 22 20:44:19 when i generate Nov 22 20:44:29 jameson you call gcc you directly you dont need a buildsystem Nov 22 20:44:33 +can Nov 22 20:44:37 jameson: if you want to shot yourself not only into your foot, but blow up both of your feet with a death star, then use linux for embedded linux development Nov 22 20:44:44 jameson: if you are half way sane, you'd use linux Nov 22 20:44:59 um well the thing is Nov 22 20:45:06 we might not go embedded Nov 22 20:45:10 we may use wireless data transfer Nov 22 20:45:12 jameson: if nothing goes, use a VM with linux running in it Nov 22 20:45:38 like we plan to use wifi to offload the video processing onto a PC Nov 22 20:45:41 should i still use linux? Nov 22 20:45:50 jameson: if you want develop regular linux code on a windows machine... well.. then i have nothing to say Nov 22 20:46:04 i haven't used linux except at my last job Nov 22 20:46:06 unless you have very specific reasons not to, using linux is usually a safe bet Nov 22 20:46:27 jameson: you have to tell us more Nov 22 20:46:34 alright i will get linux on my machine Nov 22 20:46:38 jameson: with the little information you gave us, noone can say anything Nov 22 20:46:40 so lets say i'm in linux Nov 22 20:46:54 then what do i use Cmake for? Nov 22 20:47:02 it is to help link files right? Nov 22 20:47:05 cmake is yet another make replacement Nov 22 20:47:05 and set up a compile script? Nov 22 20:47:13 I'd recommend not using cmake for anything Nov 22 20:47:23 mru *g* Nov 22 20:47:35 ok, then i have to write scripts that use gcc cals right? Nov 22 20:47:38 calls* Nov 22 20:47:44 jameson: what build system you use on linux depends on what kind of code you want to develop Nov 22 20:47:52 jameson: make is usally a safe bet Nov 22 20:48:01 can you give an example? Nov 22 20:48:07 jameson: others have use cmake, xmake, imake, younameitmake Nov 22 20:48:22 jameson: what kind of project are we talking about? Nov 22 20:48:26 robot car Nov 22 20:48:38 lane detection, sign detection, traffic lights Nov 22 20:48:41 so mostly user space code written in plain c? Nov 22 20:48:44 video processing Nov 22 20:48:49 c++ with openCV libraries Nov 22 20:49:01 any gui? Nov 22 20:49:11 you are late with robotcar Nov 22 20:49:24 any gui? Nov 22 20:49:27 u mean for the end-user? Nov 22 20:49:31 wil you have any gui Nov 22 20:49:33 yes Nov 22 20:49:37 unsure Nov 22 20:49:43 is it hard to implement after the fact? Nov 22 20:49:48 if you dont go the gui way, use make Nov 22 20:49:49 koth what has this todo with the buildsystem? Nov 22 20:50:12 if you might go the gui way, use still make and then adapt for the toolkit you are using Nov 22 20:50:33 o.O Nov 22 20:50:38 woglinde: e.g. if you are runing Qt, then you want to use qmake which builds make files Nov 22 20:50:42 woglinde: makes life easier Nov 22 20:50:50 woglinde: other toolkits are worse Nov 22 20:51:01 koth when you would use qt you would use qt-creator Nov 22 20:51:09 not necessarily Nov 22 20:51:13 whicht would all magic for you Nov 22 20:51:16 sure Nov 22 20:51:20 you want it Nov 22 20:51:27 * KotH doesnt believe in advanced techology Nov 22 20:51:49 i'm a "von hand zu fuss" guy Nov 22 20:51:59 question: to compile my project in linux, i have to write scripts that use gcc calls right? then use 'make' to call them? Nov 22 20:52:04 still writing my own perl scripts Nov 22 20:52:10 thats why you trying to make your life not easy Nov 22 20:52:32 jameson that would be the way Nov 22 20:52:44 uhmm.. anyone know a good introductio to standard c build environment? Nov 22 20:52:47 thank you my understanding feels better now :) Nov 22 20:53:04 * KotH isnt sure whether k&r covers that Nov 22 20:53:09 havnt read it in a decade Nov 22 20:53:23 i think at my last job they used UNIX, is that the C-shell based one? Nov 22 20:53:44 jameson but I wonder why you dont have architecture/senior dev in your team which had answers to this questions Nov 22 20:53:46 jameson: beside bsd's and solaris nobody uses c-shell as defaullt shell anymore Nov 22 20:53:46 I was so confused lol... there was also red hat linux enterprise ... looked like windows ;p Nov 22 20:53:55 this is a school project Nov 22 20:54:04 o.O Nov 22 20:54:09 jameson: most people either use bash (the linux default) or korn shell, zshell and the like Nov 22 20:54:14 robot car in school? Nov 22 20:54:21 with opencv? Nov 22 20:54:28 engineering school yeah Nov 22 20:54:32 and detection algorithms? Nov 22 20:55:02 kernel_panic: are there any good introductory books into security engineering? Nov 22 20:55:15 and these 'shells' are written in simple programming language and are essentially mini-operating systems? or.. Nov 22 20:55:26 jameson: uhmm.. you are confusing a few things Nov 22 20:55:35 sorry i should read up on operating systems Nov 22 20:55:35 jameson: make is a build system Nov 22 20:56:02 jameson this give me the feeling you should not have accepted this job Nov 22 20:56:11 jameson: scripts are usually small interpreted programs often written in shell (the comand line you have), perl or python Nov 22 20:56:30 it's okay, the professor does not seem very tight... i am amibitious... and once we get to the state where its turning math into code, i can excel Nov 22 20:56:36 jameson: scripts and makefiles are two different things, that are similar, yet unrelated Nov 22 20:56:44 ok make is a build system... where does it come from? Nov 22 20:56:48 is it built into the OS? Nov 22 20:56:54 uh... Nov 22 20:57:03 you seem to lack unix basics Nov 22 20:57:10 yes Nov 22 20:57:13 i will ready up then Nov 22 20:57:19 read* Nov 22 20:57:23 jameson: have a look at http://linuxcommand.org/ Nov 22 20:57:30 thanks Nov 22 20:57:33 jameson: and send your thanks to alan_o Nov 22 20:57:43 alan_o? Nov 22 20:57:47 jameson you will have to read a lot more Nov 22 20:58:01 some weird american guy who mentioned this book a couple of days ago Nov 22 20:58:16 cool lol Nov 22 20:58:19 woglinde: yes, but that book will give him the basics he needs to know, to even know what he should be reading Nov 22 20:58:31 jameson how many time you have? Nov 22 20:58:38 end of march i believe Nov 22 20:58:40 woglinde: s/many/much/ Nov 22 20:58:41 ;) Nov 22 20:58:46 ups Nov 22 20:58:47 yes Nov 22 20:58:48 damn Nov 22 20:59:03 woglinde: dont worry, common german mistake... like current/actual Nov 22 20:59:10 jameson: damn.. thats' not much time Nov 22 20:59:16 sure I know the false friend normaly Nov 22 20:59:20 KotH: Depends on what parts of security you are interested in, just like computer science it is a very wide area Nov 22 20:59:29 KotH i have 3 others in my group Nov 22 20:59:36 jameson: that wouldnt be much time even if you have the complete framework done already Nov 22 20:59:41 jameson: still Nov 22 20:59:49 computer forensics, software security, network security etc Nov 22 20:59:57 jameson: you need your field well to get anything complex done in just a couple of month Nov 22 21:00:01 jameson: and you dont Nov 22 21:00:16 kernel_panic: hmm... Nov 22 21:00:19 i know i am still trying to cram a lot of learning in Nov 22 21:00:28 4 month isnt much Nov 22 21:00:37 even when you know all basic stuff Nov 22 21:00:41 kernel_panic: the thing is, i know nothing about it (beside common sense). if i'd like to learn about the field in general, where should i start? Nov 22 21:01:01 woglinde my biggest problem is setting up interfaces and such Nov 22 21:01:31 are the algorithms hard to implement? i usually have little trouble with that Nov 22 21:01:42 jameson: compare that to: our company is currently doing a comparatively simple system where a cortex-m3 based system reads a mechanical counter using two cameras under averse light conditions Nov 22 21:01:59 jameson: we have 2.5 people working on it and are still not finished after 6 months Nov 22 21:02:09 koth 2 cams via usb? Nov 22 21:02:19 averse light conditions, doesn't this complicate the problem? Nov 22 21:02:24 woglinde: no, some serial interface that is couple over spi to the uC Nov 22 21:02:36 koth hehe Nov 22 21:02:50 jameson: but it's not like "we dont see anything" it's rather "lighting is not optimal" Nov 22 21:03:07 jameson: the problem is "trivial" compared to other recognition systems Nov 22 21:03:17 :( Nov 22 21:03:17 jameson: it's just recognizing 10 numbers Nov 22 21:03:29 that seems odd Nov 22 21:03:48 i thought the feature vectors + classifier system wouldn't be too hard for that Nov 22 21:03:50 jameson: the only difficulty is bright spots due to reflaction Nov 22 21:03:52 koth and you using opencv? Nov 22 21:03:59 woglinde: no, handwritten algos Nov 22 21:04:05 intressting Nov 22 21:04:20 woglinde: not enough power in the cortex-m3 to use any fancy lib Nov 22 21:04:32 hm Nov 22 21:04:36 i'll be back later, gonna read up some Nov 22 21:04:40 thanks for the help Nov 22 21:04:41 woglinde: beside, we are power limited, we can draw only a couple of mW and have to be finished in less than 0.5s Nov 22 21:04:48 yes good luck jameson Nov 22 21:04:56 koth okay Nov 22 21:05:02 jameson: get yourself a good book on linux as well Nov 22 21:05:08 jameson: you will need it Nov 22 21:05:14 koth so its running on battery Nov 22 21:05:25 woglinde: no, m-bus Nov 22 21:05:44 KotH: actually I think you learn a lot of software security by developing software, I have not seen any really good books on it and it is evolving when new frameworks and languages appear. But I guess if you use linux you already into some network security a lot since you probably use some firewalls and stuff. There are some nice tools to use for network security to search networks like nessus etc, there is also tools to check s Nov 22 21:06:49 I would recommend you to keep an eye on Bruce Schneier, he writes a lot of interesting current stuff :) Nov 22 21:07:10 kernel_panic: i know software security in generall... and i also know that most textbooks in that field are just shit, either bad introductions to cryptography or reiiterating the 10th time that string handling in c is bad and cross site scripting is the devil Nov 22 21:07:26 kernel_panic: i'm looking more for a general introduction, not only covering software Nov 22 21:08:12 kernel_panic: i'm already keeping an eye on schneier :) Nov 22 21:08:14 I think you need to read a number of books then. I have not seen any one covering all different parts :) Nov 22 21:08:25 * KotH doesnt fear reading books Nov 22 21:08:32 * KotH is literate Nov 22 21:14:46 hey non-holiday trolls Nov 22 21:16:54 * kernel_panic is forced to play by his cats, need to suspend the beagle... Nov 22 21:17:03 hey mranostay, how's the turkey trolling? Nov 22 21:20:27 * KotH reminds mranostay that if it shouts "JIHAD!" it's turkish and not a turkey Nov 22 21:24:05 good night trolls Nov 22 21:27:33 night koth Nov 22 23:03:31 i have a question Nov 22 23:03:42 about linux vs windows Nov 22 23:04:00 what is the advantage of developing video processing with openCV libraries in linux? Nov 22 23:05:00 same as doing anything linux rather than windows Nov 22 23:05:47 alrighty, and that is? also is it better to pick up linux instead of developing in windows? Nov 22 23:06:16 last I checked, beagles didn't run windows Nov 22 23:07:04 beagle aside Nov 22 23:07:09 jameson you can develop under windows Nov 22 23:07:11 i may not go embedded Nov 22 23:07:18 beagle aside, this is #beagle Nov 22 23:07:23 but you need to compile it for you target system Nov 22 23:07:27 which will be linux Nov 22 23:08:18 sorry this channel is the most active Nov 22 23:08:35 really? I can think of quite a few with more activity Nov 22 23:08:41 please share Nov 22 23:08:45 i was in overflow and opencv Nov 22 23:08:47 but no reply Nov 22 23:09:17 if your question is not somehow beagle related, why do you ask here? Nov 22 23:09:31 because people here know programming better than me Nov 22 23:09:41 I'd send you to #netbsd-furries, but that channel was shut down Nov 22 23:11:38 so if i stick with windows, should i develop in visual studio for now? Nov 22 23:11:48 we can't answer that question Nov 22 23:11:54 visual studio does not run on beagle Nov 22 23:12:06 but i can use my source filed to build for beagle right? Nov 22 23:12:10 files* Nov 22 23:12:14 not in visual studio Nov 22 23:12:20 i mean with CMake Nov 22 23:12:30 after i am satisfied with my program in visual studio? Nov 22 23:12:39 why are we talking about about virtual studio here? Nov 22 23:12:41 that strikes me as a stupid course of action Nov 22 23:13:00 sorry, i just want to start developing asap Nov 22 23:13:11 and again please tell me an active channel where i may ask this question Nov 22 23:13:11 if you ultimately want to run on a beagle, start on a linux pc Nov 22 23:13:14 if this is not the right place Nov 22 23:13:26 ultimately we may run on a beagle, not for sure Nov 22 23:13:41 what will decide? Nov 22 23:13:42 ah ok Nov 22 23:14:18 also what is the difference between developing on a linux pc vs. developing in visual studio, building with CMake for linux later and learning to write the scripts in linux thereafter Nov 22 23:14:22 jameson again you can develop in visual studio, but you need a buildsystem for your target Nov 22 23:14:23 jameson: If it were possible to complete your task using a normal PC, given the previous discussion, I would aim for that... Nov 22 23:15:04 whatever you come up with that works in visual studio, you'll probably have to rewrite to a large extent for linux Nov 22 23:15:17 source code rewrite? Nov 22 23:15:28 why is that? im confused Nov 22 23:15:28 * mranostay facepalm Nov 22 23:15:32 jameson: It seems like you will have enough of a challenge to get your algorithms working correctly, without dealing with developing for the linux -> beaglebone Nov 22 23:15:50 xanium4333: that's why I suggested a linux pc first Nov 22 23:16:03 from there moving to beagle is no big deal Nov 22 23:16:04 mru: aaah okay, missed that line :) Nov 22 23:16:44 mru: except performance difference, which in this case will probably determin success/failure Nov 22 23:17:01 sure Nov 22 23:17:35 can you say more about having to rewrite a large extent for linux Nov 22 23:17:39 but an app developed in visual studio will almost certainly need lots of work to make it run on linux Nov 22 23:17:44 any linux, pc or beagle Nov 22 23:18:02 mru when he use mingw toolchain? Nov 22 23:18:06 jameson: windows & linux have considerable differences, so you have to be careful when writing code to ensure you do not rely on features specific to either one (if you want your code to run on both easily). Nov 22 23:18:14 woglinde: that wouldn't be visual studio Nov 22 23:18:23 why? Nov 22 23:18:34 can you give one example please? Nov 22 23:18:36 I thought it has some toolchain support now Nov 22 23:18:42 like eclipse Nov 22 23:18:42 woglinde: why is linux not macos? Nov 22 23:18:48 <_av500_> why are we discussing toolchains? Nov 22 23:19:15 av500 because in eclipse you can select it Nov 22 23:19:22 mingw has its own compilers and runtime libs Nov 22 23:19:35 and dev environment etc etc Nov 22 23:19:44 it's _completely different_ from visual studio Nov 22 23:19:52 does emacs support vim? Nov 22 23:19:58 <_av500_> sure Nov 22 23:19:58 jameson: if you try to read a file on windows, you will need to use a line similar to: fopen("C:\...."), on linux it is fopen("/home/...") Nov 22 23:20:07 <_av500_> wow Nov 22 23:20:15 <_av500_> that totally prevents writing it for both Nov 22 23:20:29 everytime i've tried Eclipse i remember why i don't use a IDE :) Nov 22 23:20:37 _av500_: lol, didn't say it was a massive difference Nov 22 23:20:40 mranostay *g* Nov 22 23:20:46 (and actually windows can cope with forward slashes) Nov 22 23:20:54 xanium4333: that's the least of your worries Nov 22 23:21:06 <_av500_> xanium4333: even on a unix, you would use $HOME Nov 22 23:21:09 mranostay I am to lazy for vim and this code completion tab Nov 22 23:21:12 <_av500_> so, your SW does not care Nov 22 23:21:30 _av500_: I was just demonstrating a difference that needs to be known about Nov 22 23:21:31 ups plugin Nov 22 23:21:32 even Nov 22 23:21:35 _av500_: in windows you'd use the registry, no? Nov 22 23:21:46 _av500_: uhoh Nov 22 23:21:59 ok so you are saying basically any time i am doing I/O with operating system specific 'commands' is a major difference Nov 22 23:22:08 in my cpp code Nov 22 23:22:16 <_av500_> depends Nov 22 23:22:31 jameson: yes, basically anything operating system related (threads etc...) Nov 22 23:22:38 <_av500_> for opencv, the APIs to get images into your SW are different Nov 22 23:22:40 any call to system libraries will be different in some way Nov 22 23:22:46 <_av500_> but hoepfully openCV abstracts that Nov 22 23:22:53 <_av500_> same for outputting images Nov 22 23:23:05 more likely it abstrats it but still requires you to do things differently Nov 22 23:23:06 <_av500_> if you use e.g. QT, its somewhat protable too Nov 22 23:23:21 <_av500_> mru: sure Nov 22 23:23:22 jameson: also Visual studio uses a different compiler than Linux, which although shouldn't make a difference, probably will (compiler extensions etc...) Nov 22 23:23:30 av500 koth had already qt Nov 22 23:23:40 xanium4333: those compilers are _very_ different Nov 22 23:23:41 in the last discussion Nov 22 23:23:47 <_av500_> and since we have no idea what the project is about, all we can say is "it depends" Nov 22 23:23:58 xanium4332: one of them supports C properly Nov 22 23:24:00 oops Nov 22 23:24:05 again I think in visual studio you can select the toolchain now Nov 22 23:24:14 * xanium4333 <--- ignore this person talking to themselves Nov 22 23:24:20 ok but how come the compiler makes a difference? can't i use CMake to build my project for a linux compiler (assuming my source code is not windows specific) Nov 22 23:24:30 <_av500_> cmake is not a compiler Nov 22 23:24:39 <_av500_> so yes Nov 22 23:24:42 av500 engineering school course about robot cars Nov 22 23:24:43 i know but wont it ready my project for another compiler? Nov 22 23:24:44 <_av500_> its just a mke thingy Nov 22 23:24:45 if you develop in visual studio, your code _will_ be windows-specific Nov 22 23:25:15 * mru makes not to stay off the streets Nov 22 23:25:19 *note Nov 22 23:25:19 <_av500_> woglinde: ah, so let me propose to put a cheap netbook in the robot :) Nov 22 23:25:26 cmake has options to configure stuff for visual studio Nov 22 23:25:28 <_av500_> solved, next :) Nov 22 23:25:31 * woglinde runs Nov 22 23:25:49 jameson: because although they both implement the C++ standard (visual studio does not support modern C standards), compiler directives (such as #pragmas) are completely different Nov 22 23:25:51 actually planning to do wi-fi comm. Nov 22 23:26:01 <_av500_> yes, a net book has wifi Nov 22 23:26:09 wifi camera Nov 22 23:26:10 to pc Nov 22 23:26:12 pc to board Nov 22 23:26:15 usng RF? Nov 22 23:26:20 wifi in a car?!?!?!? Nov 22 23:26:26 <_av500_> xanium4333: he wont even get into these details Nov 22 23:26:35 <_av500_> mru: a remote controlled one Nov 22 23:26:40 <_av500_> mru: c'mon Nov 22 23:26:49 yeah for now Nov 22 23:27:12 I'd certainly make sure any car relying on wifi is remote indeed Nov 22 23:27:19 _av500_: I know, I'm just trying to be objectively helpful :) Nov 22 23:28:06 av500 and his deadline is end of march Nov 22 23:28:34 <_av500_> wait, wasnt he here befroe? Nov 22 23:28:40 yes Nov 22 23:28:40 <_av500_> or are they all in marhc? Nov 22 23:28:43 <_av500_> ah Nov 22 23:28:43 after reading Nov 22 23:28:56 some link koth gave him Nov 22 23:29:06 they need to teach courses on 'wtf: compilers, build systems, IDEs, OSs, distros... what's what' Nov 22 23:29:06 <_av500_> ah Nov 22 23:29:20 <_av500_> xanium4333: there is the internet for that Nov 22 23:29:40 <_av500_> my version of the internet covers that Nov 22 23:30:08 _av500_: well they need an IRC channel then :P Nov 22 23:30:34 <_av500_> some stuff is already written donw Nov 22 23:30:54 i have one more question Nov 22 23:31:02 if i write in linux and use 'make' to build Nov 22 23:31:10 is there debug report? Nov 22 23:31:27 <_av500_> ? Nov 22 23:31:33 <_av500_> there is the erro output Nov 22 23:31:33 or how does debugging work Nov 22 23:31:36 ah ok Nov 22 23:31:48 <_av500_> like for any other command Nov 22 23:31:54 <_av500_> even on windows Nov 22 23:32:12 and uh, can i step through my program Nov 22 23:32:16 and watch the values Nov 22 23:32:18 <_av500_> sure Nov 22 23:32:24 argmph I can't get a stock angstrom build from source to boot on my beaglebone, after uboot says 'starting kernel...' I get nothing... Nov 22 23:32:33 really? cool Nov 22 23:32:38 <_av500_> yes, its 2012 Nov 22 23:32:39 how does that work ? lol, is there a gui Nov 22 23:32:46 <_av500_> even that Nov 22 23:33:07 and all that comes stock with the linux OS? Nov 22 23:33:16 lol Nov 22 23:33:28 depending on what distribution you use... Nov 22 23:33:41 I would recommend eclipse for you Nov 22 23:33:53 it has support for autotools cmake c/c++ Nov 22 23:33:56 <_av500_> apt-get install gdb Nov 22 23:34:07 and yes it uses gdb too Nov 22 23:34:08 or is there a distinction between linux OS and the programs it has installed on it to run the gui/debugger stuff Nov 22 23:34:16 <_av500_> yes Nov 22 23:34:17 jameson: correct Nov 22 23:34:21 <_av500_> same as windows Nov 22 23:34:23 <_av500_> or macos Nov 22 23:34:28 <_av500_> or any other "os" Nov 22 23:34:29 thank you, apologies for my level of knowledge Nov 22 23:34:31 <_av500_> one installs SW Nov 22 23:34:33 <_av500_> or not Nov 22 23:34:50 <_av500_> basic concepts all apply Nov 22 23:34:51 jameson: look up what a 'linux distro' is, you'll want to pick something like 'Ubuntu' Nov 22 23:35:03 * _av500_ pretends to not have heard that Nov 22 23:35:12 * xanium4333 thought about saying 'slackware' Nov 22 23:35:26 <_av500_> ah, that newfangled stuff Nov 22 23:35:35 or angstrom Nov 22 23:35:37 hi Nov 22 23:35:41 <_av500_> lo Nov 22 23:35:44 yggdrasil ftw Nov 22 23:35:48 screw it, we can make a custom one using OE Nov 22 23:36:48 <_av500_> screw OE, use cp Nov 22 23:36:59 linux from scratch Nov 22 23:37:15 <_av500_> yeah, but how to make scratch? Nov 22 23:37:38 lets roll it all the way back to transistors Nov 22 23:37:59 * mru goes to fetch a bucket of sand Nov 22 23:38:26 I've got some old processor designs on acetate, we'll photoetch them in Nov 22 23:38:52 one of them even supports a subtract instruction Nov 22 23:39:36 * xanium4333 may have gone of the deep end there Nov 22 23:40:00 <_av500_> mru: sand? we were lucky to even have sand Nov 22 23:40:02 subtraction is overrated Nov 22 23:40:13 <_av500_> we had to grind rocks for hours with dull erasers Nov 22 23:40:41 <_av500_> er, blunt Nov 22 23:41:07 <_av500_> and we had to haul the rocks 5 miles through the lake Nov 22 23:41:16 up hill Nov 22 23:41:23 <_av500_> in freezing cold hail Nov 22 23:41:42 we had to invent col^Whot fusion to create heavier atoms than H Nov 22 23:41:44 <_av500_> 25hours a day Nov 22 23:41:59 <_av500_> janne: we din have no atoms Nov 22 23:42:54 we had to construct everything from nothing but a big bang Nov 22 23:43:06 <_av500_> yeah, and we got only the small bang Nov 22 23:43:17 <_av500_> big one was for the nobles Nov 22 23:44:53 he kept all the dynamite for himself? Nov 22 23:45:08 * _av500_ goes to beat himself to sleep now Nov 22 23:45:14 oh dear Nov 22 23:45:22 it's that time of the year again Nov 22 23:45:30 which time? Nov 22 23:45:35 <_av500_> hammer time Nov 22 23:45:37 its friday already Nov 22 23:45:39 *that* time Nov 22 23:45:41 friday Nov 22 23:45:42 dont forget it Nov 22 23:45:51 it was friday 2 days ago Nov 22 23:45:55 <_av500_> yeah Nov 22 23:45:59 <_av500_> inflation Nov 22 23:46:08 two fridays for one Nov 22 23:46:20 it's always friday somewhere Nov 22 23:46:32 <_av500_> yep, in my mind Nov 22 23:46:35 yesterday was turkey day Nov 22 23:46:43 today is mall trampling day Nov 22 23:46:46 <_av500_> turkey solutions Nov 22 23:46:51 according to my texas calendar Nov 22 23:46:54 <_av500_> yes Nov 22 23:48:04 * koen heads back to bed Nov 22 23:48:15 you are coming from it? Nov 22 23:48:53 hm openjdk compile tooks only 16 minutes Nov 22 23:48:57 not bad Nov 22 23:49:15 took even Nov 22 23:49:51 time for bed Nov 22 23:49:52 gn Nov 22 23:49:58 night Nov 22 23:52:27 does anyone have ideas on how to debug a kernel failing to boot. I mean *no* kernel output after u-boot claiming 'starting kernel ...'. I don't get any watchdog LEDs either Nov 22 23:52:47 earlyprintk Nov 22 23:53:23 mru: timemachineprintk Nov 22 23:53:50 I don't really get it. This is a kernel generated by following the stock angstrom build instructions for the beaglebone Nov 22 23:54:07 so follow common sense instead Nov 22 23:55:08 mru: there's some magical difference between my build machine and whoever pushed the angstrom images online? I should be able to make identical build outputs Nov 22 23:57:16 I've tried completely fresh checkouts Nov 23 00:00:43 sounds like the console= arg is wrong to the kernel... Nov 23 00:04:06 Crofton|work: agreed, except I don't get the watchdog led or anything Nov 23 01:03:17 i am having some trouble with hello world Nov 23 01:03:28 the console window pops up and then goes away Nov 23 01:03:53 And in the output, it doesn't say "hello world!" Nov 23 01:05:20 i'm using vs++2008 Nov 23 01:05:26 express Nov 23 01:07:22 hmm maybe because i made it a win32 console application... brb Nov 23 01:09:34 changing your nick does not make win32 programming topical here Nov 23 01:10:55 why shouldn't it be? beagle users can't develop there? Nov 23 01:11:18 wow 10 seconds to load my hello world Nov 23 01:16:33 fa2nge Nov 23 01:52:45 mru: where do we get this guys from? Nov 23 02:13:16 anyone here can help with COBOL on an IBM360? Nov 23 02:20:29 wow can't tell if emeb_mac is serious or not Nov 23 02:21:01 * emeb_mac left off his irony tag (again) Nov 23 02:21:15 I'm not _that_ old. Nov 23 02:25:45 never know here :) Nov 23 02:28:13 On IRC no one knows if you're a fossil. Until you start talking about your first computer. Nov 23 02:38:01 that does seem to be the benchmark **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 23 02:59:58 2012