**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 28 02:59:59 2012 Dec 28 03:00:22 * emeb_mac is still plowing through the leftovers from xmas-day cooking. Dec 28 03:00:28 emeb_mac / alan_o question, i need a define for the number of dsi lanes i am going to use, i.e. DSI_LANES_ONE or DSI_LANES_1 Dec 28 03:00:40 prpplague: latter Dec 28 03:00:40 think it is better to spell the number or use the symbol? Dec 28 03:00:45 symbol Dec 28 03:00:54 yes Dec 28 03:01:01 Then it all lines up nice and pretty with DSI_LANES_2 Dec 28 03:01:08 ok thanks, was having a brain cramp on that Dec 28 03:01:20 * prpplague gets hung up on little details like that sometimes Dec 28 03:01:39 it happens Dec 28 03:01:43 I think we all do. the good ones anyway. The artists :) Dec 28 03:02:22 for me that's usually a sign that the brain hasn't gotten in the groove yet. Dec 28 03:02:46 gotta get the silly details out of the question, then the flow comes. Dec 28 03:03:03 emeb_mac: when the caffeine IV gets clogged? Dec 28 03:03:16 heh. something like that. Dec 28 03:03:40 * emeb_mac usually gets in the groove sometime in mid-late afternoon. Dec 28 03:04:02 then things just happen the way they should, until about dinner time. after that I'm useless. :) Dec 28 03:07:43 this is awesome -> http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/11/28/for-winning-the-nobel-prize-niels-bohr-got-a-house-with-free-beer/ Dec 28 03:10:32 emeb_mac: TI awarded Jack Kilby a $20 savings bond for his invention of the IC..... Dec 28 03:10:51 *eyeroll* Dec 28 03:12:03 of course he's won the nobel prize since them, but for the first 10 years after his invention that was all he got Dec 28 03:14:30 twerps Dec 28 03:29:18 alan_o / emeb_mac : less magical? https://github.com/prpplague/DSI85-Development/commit/83a2205afc804d53c2ef8d8db4cbea3be8505c73 Dec 28 03:33:55 nice. why can't people do that more often? Dec 28 03:35:43 one guy, whose code I otherwise admire for its simplicity, insists on doing all register bit ranges as uncommented numeric constants. ugh. Dec 28 03:36:59 emeb_mac: i can understand if you are hacking and debugging, but mainline code should also be readable Dec 28 03:37:43 * prpplague needs to work on this code some more but has been hacking on it all day.... Dec 28 03:38:14 prpplague: yes. at some point you need to shave the burrs off, apply a nice coat of paint and send it out into the world. Dec 28 03:39:13 prpplague: i'm here for you man Dec 28 03:39:18 what's upi? Dec 28 03:39:20 *up Dec 28 03:41:06 mranostay: just need some advice on a define alan_o and emeb_mac commented Dec 28 03:41:19 mranostay: https://github.com/prpplague/DSI85-Development/commit/83a2205afc804d53c2ef8d8db4cbea3be8505c73 Dec 28 03:41:28 mranostay: trying to make that a little less magical Dec 28 03:46:24 not a fan of switch statements but cleaner than 4 if statements Dec 28 03:48:24 don't repeat evaluation of the same expression in multiple conditions Dec 28 03:48:55 that's exactly what switch() is for Dec 28 03:52:46 yeah - I like switch() for some things too. Saw a book on C programming recently that said not to use it - didn't think the argument was convincing. Dec 28 03:53:44 CareBear\: yes yes :) Dec 28 03:54:00 people forget that damn break :) Dec 28 03:55:31 seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Dec 28 03:57:53 * prpplague does a git push and goes to get a beer Dec 28 03:58:50 git remote add fridge ; git checkout -b glass --track fridge/beer Dec 28 03:58:59 successful git push should always result in a beer. Dec 28 03:59:25 * prpplague has to work some miracles before monday with this code Dec 28 03:59:39 ES1.0 of this chip and it has some quirks to it Dec 28 04:00:15 what happens monday? Dec 28 04:00:27 emeb_mac: prep for CES Dec 28 04:00:37 fun! Dec 28 04:00:45 booth demo? Dec 28 04:02:04 hopefully Dec 28 04:02:10 using an omap4 pandaboard Dec 28 04:03:14 cool. Dec 28 04:05:21 * mranostay goes off to clean a few items Dec 28 04:09:22 mranostay: thanks for the feedback! Dec 28 04:10:56 prpplague: get hacking Dec 28 04:13:19 wmat: hehe Dec 28 04:25:38 wtf, that HardKernel board is the top item on HackerNews. I swear it was on there a month ago as well. Dec 28 04:29:14 cute board. Allwinner? Dec 28 04:30:43 nope - Samsung Dec 28 04:37:30 too bad it's got no gpio, etc. Dec 28 04:44:03 wmat: hehe Dec 28 04:48:26 I guess everyone wants to make the next rpi. Dec 28 04:55:29 an armv5 board for just $10? Dec 28 06:25:52 http://www.twitch.tv/XMPPwocky So I'm going to be livestreaming myself coding an OS, from scratch, using only JTAG peek-and-poke Dec 28 06:26:44 multitasking, multiuser, VM, possibly FS Dec 28 06:27:12 10:30AM +/-30m PST Dec 28 06:38:03 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogPZ5CY9KoM Dec 28 06:40:10 LOL Dec 28 06:40:17 i'm going to be talking about it as I go, of course Dec 28 06:46:12 Russ: most excellent reference. Dec 28 06:49:01 always enjoyed the flying circus and what not as a kid Dec 28 06:58:04 hey old people Dec 28 07:01:14 mranostay: vacate my greensward Dec 28 07:02:30 emeb_mac: not while i'm cleaning firearms :P Dec 28 07:03:13 on that note anyone that edits a file in Windows and commits it should be shot... Dec 28 07:03:21 ^M^M^M^M all over the place Dec 28 07:07:00 dos2unix man. Dec 28 07:07:08 yes i do that Dec 28 07:07:41 old repos in CVS Dec 28 07:08:50 never seen a 2.6.27 kernel in CVS before this job Dec 28 07:09:16 did it have spiderwebs on it? Dec 28 07:09:53 i would smack this 'programmer' but he left.. Dec 28 07:10:31 i never say i'm a great coder but i know what not to do Dec 28 07:19:16 * mranostay hides from panto-troll Dec 28 07:19:44 hi Dec 28 07:20:52 trollopants? Dec 28 07:21:17 larger than regular pants Dec 28 07:21:25 married life will do that Dec 28 07:32:44 panto: so you review my PRU code? :) Dec 28 07:32:58 did you notice i used every register except one? :) Dec 28 07:33:17 no Dec 28 07:33:55 I do have my own work to do Dec 28 07:34:27 when I get around to reviewing thoroughly I'm sure I'll find a bunch of serious mistakes and I will make sure to disparage you publicly for them Dec 28 07:34:37 you don't have to thank me :) Dec 28 07:34:54 we are friends, because? :) Dec 28 07:35:14 panto: hey at least i didn't do in python :P Dec 28 07:35:21 *it Dec 28 07:36:13 i think my code loses 3 ticks per second.. so at 200 mhz clock.. :) Dec 28 07:46:03 ka6sox: never heard of lovecraft? how is that even possible? Dec 28 07:47:27 fthat's almost as bad as never heard of gary gygax :P Dec 28 07:48:01 mranostay, I've probably read other authors you have never heard of either....:P Dec 28 07:48:06 * mranostay googles Dec 28 07:48:26 ka6sox: haven't read anything by him but i know of him Dec 28 07:48:37 <-- doesn't like sci fi at all Dec 28 07:49:00 lovecraft influenced movies... like hellboy Dec 28 07:50:31 never seen Dec 28 08:01:42 I am not a Horror Fan... Dec 28 08:02:00 Sci-Fi...sure...Straight Horror..not so much... Dec 28 08:07:17 there is Gay Horror? Dec 28 08:08:48 * panto smacks mranostay Dec 28 08:09:00 hey Dec 28 08:10:43 I love Cats....but all throughout "Alien" I kept saying (and I guess verbalizing out loud....) "Just Forget the Cat"... Dec 28 08:11:13 cats never die... :) Dec 28 08:11:26 panto: per another channel :) Dec 28 08:12:03 mranostay, is it that 9 lives thing or something else? Dec 28 08:13:03 ka6sox: this cat is 13-14 years old.. and i got it when i moved out since she didn't bite me the most :) Dec 28 08:13:10 she has tamed down a bit Dec 28 08:14:57 does that mean she no longer takes you down and slices you to ribbons when you come home? Dec 28 08:16:16 no claw so that isn't a issue.. unless she has some ninja back claw move Dec 28 09:45:30 <_av500_> morn Dec 28 09:58:43 hi _av500_ Dec 28 11:19:20 Hi all, i cross compilied kernel and file system for beaglebone to boot from nand flash, so that i enabled mtd driver and nand driver but i didn't get mtd devices in /dev directory.nand has partitioned in the board file.i could not understand what went wrong. Dec 28 11:19:55 what to do? to solve this. Dec 28 11:34:22 <_av500_> and what nand did you connect? Dec 28 11:43:05 NAND device: Manufacturer ID: 0x98, Chip ID: 0x39 (Toshiba NAND 8MiB 1,8V 8-bit) Dec 28 12:05:38 * bradfa pokes mranostay quite a while later... Dec 28 12:11:23 <_av500_> bradfa: poor kid needs to sleep Dec 28 12:12:02 _av500_, he's young, caffeine should suffice :) Dec 28 12:19:45 <_av500_> true Dec 28 17:45:29 <_av500_> mranostay: you can wake up now Dec 28 17:47:42 no Dec 28 17:55:53 let sleeping dogs lie Dec 28 18:12:47 I suppose sleeping dogs rarely tell the truth Dec 28 18:14:30 http://twitch.tv/XMPPwocky I'm livestreaming myself writing an OS from scratch for the BeagleBone... no assembler or compilers, just bootstrapping from JTAG peeks and pokes Dec 28 18:15:08 in about 15 minutes I'll get started Dec 28 18:16:37 who is all up for a group hug? Dec 28 18:17:01 a group _bear_ hug? Dec 28 18:17:22 bare hug? :O Dec 28 18:17:36 lets not go there this early :) Dec 28 18:21:32 bare arms hugging bears Dec 28 18:31:40 <_av500_> mdp: +1 Dec 28 18:40:38 well, I finally found a use for my cheap endoscope Dec 28 18:40:50 I will be lowering it into my below ground fuel oil tank .... Dec 28 18:44:05 Crofton|work: is there any gadget you don't have? :) Dec 28 18:44:28 yes Dec 28 18:44:34 a good endoscope Dec 28 18:44:43 lighting will be an issue Dec 28 18:45:05 this is a cheap one from one of those online deal places Dec 28 18:45:23 how often do you use a endoscope? Dec 28 18:45:33 this will be the first time Dec 28 18:45:40 I'll post the video Dec 28 18:46:44 to the internetz? Dec 28 18:47:44 bradfa: get your fpga book yet? Dec 28 18:50:56 emeb: hey fpga pr0n time ^ Dec 28 18:51:43 <_av500_> Crofton|work: for lighting, dont throw matches down the hole Dec 28 18:51:51 <_av500_> use a candle on a string Dec 28 18:52:42 Crofton|work: can i have your spectrum analyzer if you blow up? Dec 28 18:54:08 if I am not back in thirty miuntes, call 911 Dec 28 18:54:25 you didn't answer my question :P Dec 28 18:55:46 mranostay, hehe Dec 28 18:58:00 mranostay: mdp: bradfa: what's the book? Dec 28 19:02:41 the word useless pairs well with this endoscope Dec 28 19:03:27 dammit you are alive.. i mena :) Dec 28 19:03:29 *mean Dec 28 19:03:42 Crofton|work: tape a flashlight on it :) Dec 28 19:04:29 emeb, I suggested fpga prototyping by vhdl examples to him..as a hands on approach Dec 28 19:04:41 * mranostay waits to hear Crofton|work cuss that he dropped a flashlight into his fuel oil tank Dec 28 19:06:31 emeb, well, he had heard of the verilog variant of the same book and was considering that one Dec 28 19:06:59 imho, what's covered is mostly independent of which you choose anyway Dec 28 19:11:58 mdp: haven't seen either of those books. Dec 28 19:12:10 * emeb gets back to writing VHDL for an FPGA. Dec 28 19:12:58 emeb, it's nice for a beginner...simple template for the code part and emphasis on how to do real stuff Dec 28 19:13:00 verilog looks like greek to me :) Dec 28 19:14:13 mdp: sounds good Dec 28 19:14:45 mranostay: verilog may be greek, for values of greek that equal AWESOME. Dec 28 19:15:00 * emeb shows his bias against VHDL Dec 28 19:19:22 emeb: ok that is like comparing latin and greek to me now :) Dec 28 19:20:43 haha Dec 28 19:21:21 mranostay: if you know C then you can probably parse Verilog. if you know ADA you can probably parse VHDL. Dec 28 19:22:33 mdp: can atest i only know python and javascript Dec 28 19:23:36 I'd bet someone has probably designed an HDL around either of those two languages. Probably not well supported tho Dec 28 19:26:20 emeb, bah, heathen, thou shalt come to know the one and true hdl, verilog Dec 28 19:26:20 mdp, mranostay, no not yet, been busy with holidays and work Dec 28 19:26:25 maybe sometime in 2013 Dec 28 19:27:08 emeb, I can parse Verilog and hack at it, I just am mostly hacking in the dark and I'm looking for some structured learning Dec 28 19:27:08 Russ: holy war? Dec 28 19:27:15 KotH: poke ^ Dec 28 19:27:29 mranostay, vim verilog! Dec 28 19:27:37 holy war, GO Dec 28 19:27:42 eh Dec 28 19:29:10 At my last job all the research people were VHDL on Xilinx, everything in production was Verilog on Atlera. Suits then had bright idea to simply take what research did and make it a product, much entertainment ensued Dec 28 19:29:21 Russ: You misunderstand - verilog is my favorite HDL Dec 28 19:29:32 I wrote some java Dec 28 19:29:37 * bradfa belches Dec 28 19:30:08 bradfa: awesome. Dec 28 19:30:19 (story) Dec 28 19:30:31 JIHAD?!? Dec 28 19:30:47 <_av500_> +1 Dec 28 19:30:52 KotH: thank you Dec 28 19:30:53 KotH, Just Idiots Hardware Advanced Description? Dec 28 19:31:02 <_av500_> +2 Dec 28 19:31:09 rotfl Dec 28 19:31:28 JIHAD! Now with exact steps! Dec 28 19:31:38 <_av500_> Javascript Is Hot, Awesome and Dangerous Dec 28 19:31:43 +1 Dec 28 19:31:45 -1 Dec 28 19:31:50 emeb: i know both c and vhdl and a bit of verilog, but reading verilog is always difficult for me... Dec 28 19:31:50 <_av500_> *1 Dec 28 19:32:06 <_av500_> iLog ftw Dec 28 19:32:20 <_av500_> I heard the new aapl cpu is done with it Dec 28 19:32:51 <_av500_> and it will have a brushed metal interconnect layer Dec 28 19:33:07 <_av500_> on a faux leather interposer Dec 28 19:33:11 emeb: I wish I could have a strong opinion on either vhdl or verilog...something I can bash people with :) Dec 28 19:33:12 * KotH would like to know where av500 gets his "news"from Dec 28 19:33:33 <_av500_> KotH: where the weather gets its current temperatures from Dec 28 19:33:39 mdp: oh, that's easy. learn vhdl and then bash verilog people ;) Dec 28 19:33:41 <_av500_> /dev/random Dec 28 19:34:01 <_av500_> I heard VHDL was the standard Dec 28 19:34:09 KotH: mdp: _av500_: don't forget iHDL - intel's own internal HDL that they used to design a lot of x86 processors. Dec 28 19:34:14 av500: so is verilog Dec 28 19:34:20 _av500_, forget your quotes? ;) Dec 28 19:34:27 christ can intel ever not do there own thing? Dec 28 19:34:29 apparently they used MS Word macros to compile it. Dec 28 19:34:33 emeb, I'm happy with the two standards ;) Dec 28 19:34:40 emeb: you are kidding right? Dec 28 19:34:46 please tell me your are kidding Dec 28 19:35:06 mranostay: not kidding. That's what I heard when working at the big I. Dec 28 19:35:07 lol..word macros Dec 28 19:35:12 <_av500_> for the 4004 it was wordstar macros Dec 28 19:35:14 never saw it for myself though. Dec 28 19:35:35 _av500_, I can see it all stored on 8" floppies now Dec 28 19:35:38 <_av500_> mdp: oops, here: """""""" Dec 28 19:36:58 ok i don't think anyone can top emeb for the day Dec 28 19:38:08 emeb, funniest comment I've seen in FOSS circles re: VHDL was about GHDL and complaining about is being written in Ada95...all while not understanding "why". Dec 28 19:38:13 fwiw - the non-x86 parts of the company used verilog & std tool flows. Dec 28 19:38:26 mdp: derp Dec 28 19:38:44 I hear Ada's the future Dec 28 19:38:55 bradfa, past, present, future. Dec 28 19:39:12 mdp, one more thing to go on my book list then :) Dec 28 19:39:48 bradfa, I'll probably take a look at the verilog version too at some point Dec 28 19:40:01 mdp: lol Dec 28 19:40:05 bradfa, but seriously, the concepts are mostly HDL independent Dec 28 19:40:22 mdp: actually, i asked the author of ghdl many many years ago, and he said "because vhdl is so similar" :) Dec 28 19:40:24 they're trying to show how to practically describe stuff Dec 28 19:40:57 KotH: well sure, gnat already parses the same syntax Dec 28 19:41:11 * mdp wonders if Russ misses Ada ;) Dec 28 19:41:39 * _av500_ wonders if a HDLDL is needed? Dec 28 19:41:44 * mranostay googles what Ada syntax looks like.. Dec 28 19:41:48 mdp: imho, companies doing software for medical devices should be forced to write everything in ada Dec 28 19:41:56 <_av500_> mranostay: like pascal, but safe Dec 28 19:42:01 mdp: the shit i see that our customers do is frightening Dec 28 19:42:19 _av500_: hello young guy here... what does pascal look like? :) Dec 28 19:42:32 * KotH throws a wirth at mranostay Dec 28 19:42:41 KotH: all I can say is that we had a a major .us medical company as a client once...and OMG OMG OMG they were _morons_ Dec 28 19:42:47 <_av500_> mranostay: it ends with a . Dec 28 19:43:04 mdp: they are all the same... all the same... :-( Dec 28 19:43:28 KotH: a complete lack of understand of how to write Qt/C++/threaded code and debug it Dec 28 19:43:49 mdp: for one of our customers, we've nearly build their complete Q system, but they only follow it partially Dec 28 19:44:02 mdp: and they are iso 13485 certified :-( Dec 28 19:44:14 although I just had a friend consulting with an industrial company in my area and he says they are morons too ;) they're rocking like 2700 threads and java in their system and failing miserably Dec 28 19:44:14 <_av500_> iso 12345? Dec 28 19:44:21 * emeb suspects that VHDL is a form of cholesterol. Dec 28 19:44:33 _av500_, iso 12345 is the one describing "exact steps" Dec 28 19:44:39 <_av500_> mdp: 2600 threads? does that emit a certain tone? free phone calls? Dec 28 19:44:40 _av500_: iso9001 for companies that want to do medical Dec 28 19:45:03 _av500_, they selected the number of threads based on a whistle from their cereal box Dec 28 19:45:05 mdp: hmm i remember that project :) Dec 28 19:45:17 mranostay, they're still failing!!! Dec 28 19:45:19 _av500_: the controls are stricter and yearly, but you can get certified even if you have holes the size of a moon Dec 28 19:45:25 mranostay, everybody is failing! :) Dec 28 19:45:34 i better not see one of those devices next to my hospital bed btw :) Dec 28 19:45:50 <_av500_> KotH: I lol'ed at the ISO cert of my wifes company. for her it was a flowchart how to handle a customer request Dec 28 19:46:06 <_av500_> 1) pick up the phone on the 3rd ring Dec 28 19:46:23 by the third ring? Dec 28 19:46:26 mranostay, it's better than your life insurance beneficiary standing bedside holding "the cord" ;) Dec 28 19:46:28 _av500_: well, that's what the standards text says: you ought to have a defined process for everything in your company Dec 28 19:46:33 <_av500_> yes Dec 28 19:48:40 * KotH face palms at $guy on the local LUG mailinglist... wants to learn asm on an rpi, read a "tutorial" blog post that tells you to pass a hello world asm code trough gcc (!), complains that he doesnt understand half the stuff in the code, but didnt bother to look up the asm syntax because he "didnt want to read a lot of docu before writing any code" Dec 28 19:49:20 <_av500_> makes sense Dec 28 19:49:39 typical rpi user i'd say Dec 28 19:49:47 <_av500_> asm is best learned by creating random opcodes and observing CPU state Dec 28 19:49:56 * mdp imagines RPi assembly Dec 28 19:49:56 <_av500_> on paper of course Dec 28 19:50:10 <_av500_> the russians did that and flew to the moon Dec 28 19:50:32 rotfl.. he had a look at an arm11 core TRM and found it confusing Dec 28 19:50:53 <_av500_> I blame arm for that Dec 28 19:51:03 <_av500_> confusing poor uk children Dec 28 19:51:23 maybe they'll make an RPi with a MIPS core to fix this Dec 28 19:51:24 <_av500_> arm 11 should run on Acorn Basic natively Dec 28 19:51:38 apropos Dec 28 19:51:53 is there any arm equivalent of the "see mips run linux" book? Dec 28 19:54:14 <_av500_> ...MIPS is the most elegant among the effective RISC architectures; even the Dec 28 19:54:16 <_av500_> competition thought so, Dec 28 19:54:18 <_av500_> ... Dec 28 19:54:21 <_av500_> nice opening Dec 28 19:54:44 <_av500_> too bad IMGTEC will make Mips binary only Dec 28 19:54:45 heh from the book? Dec 28 19:54:48 <_av500_> yes Dec 28 19:54:53 <_av500_> its a free pdf Dec 28 19:56:59 mdp, never, ever, do I miss ada Dec 28 19:57:02 the book is actually quite good Dec 28 19:57:14 Russ, oh, how I knew I could get a response ;) Dec 28 19:57:18 mdp, do you have the Digilent Spartain 3 starter board? or something else? Dec 28 19:57:23 Russ: but she was such a lovely girl! :) Dec 28 19:57:38 bradfa, I actually do have that board... Dec 28 19:57:48 bradfa, the old one even :) Dec 28 19:57:59 mdp, worth buying it if I get the book? or should I look for some other Spartan board? Dec 28 19:58:09 bradfa: if you need a spartan3 board, i would recomend OGD1 Dec 28 19:58:09 I want to do the soft core examples Dec 28 19:58:11 I think it's still useful Dec 28 19:58:14 bradfa: there are still some available Dec 28 19:58:26 I just happened to have this one for free so I continue to use it Dec 28 19:58:28 KotH, thanks, I'll take a look Dec 28 19:58:51 * KotH has one, never used it though Dec 28 19:59:27 KotH, you mean the OGD1 that's >$1000? Dec 28 19:59:29 could also consider a Papilio. Dec 28 19:59:32 or is my googling failing me Dec 28 19:59:36 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11158 Dec 28 19:59:44 * mdp seconds Papilio Dec 28 19:59:57 I saw the Papilio this morning, looks neat Dec 28 20:00:01 reasonable price, too Dec 28 20:00:03 bradfa, but if you are aiming at cpu work there are better boards than Papilio for that Dec 28 20:00:15 I just want something with Spartan and some SDRAM Dec 28 20:00:27 so I can do some of the examples Dec 28 20:00:37 then I'm going to buy either an OpenRISC board or a DE0-nano Dec 28 20:00:51 of course, this assumes the wife allows me to buy more dev kits... Dec 28 20:01:48 bradfa: nah.. got mine for 750 Dec 28 20:01:59 *choke* Dec 28 20:02:13 bradfa: the >1000 price is for comercial stuff, oss people get it cheaper :) Dec 28 20:02:13 KotH, I can hide $5 launchpad on the credit card, $750 would be a bit harder Dec 28 20:02:26 <$100 is preferred Dec 28 20:02:47 *g* Dec 28 20:02:55 <_av500_> bradfa: I can hide your credit card :) Dec 28 20:02:56 bradfa: but you would support the opengraphics project! Dec 28 20:03:17 KotH, I would, if I had $750! Dec 28 20:03:19 bradfa: the digilent nexsys 2 isn't bad Dec 28 20:03:31 got a reasonably sized spartan 3 and some RAM Dec 28 20:03:33 bradfa: let me guess, you are a pennyles student? Dec 28 20:03:43 KotH, pennyless parent Dec 28 20:04:06 bradfa: what have your parents to do with that? Dec 28 20:04:14 I'm the pennyless parent Dec 28 20:04:18 oh.. Dec 28 20:04:23 my condolences Dec 28 20:04:23 just bought x-mas presents for the kiddo Dec 28 20:04:31 a steammachine? Dec 28 20:04:38 ball pit Dec 28 20:04:42 well, a little one Dec 28 20:04:51 not geeky enough... consider something else Dec 28 20:05:13 ball pits are effin awesome Dec 28 20:05:18 +1 Dec 28 20:05:19 ofc, unless you fill a complete room Dec 28 20:05:19 <_av500_> bradfa: ball bearing ball pit? Dec 28 20:05:29 ballpits are amazing... Dec 28 20:05:40 bradfa, http://www.xess.com/prods/prod055.php Dec 28 20:05:45 bradfa: http://xkcd.com/150/ Dec 28 20:06:13 bradfa: for shame you don't have a secret credit card? :) Dec 28 20:06:28 mranostay, and a sekrit apartment in "the city" Dec 28 20:06:28 <_av500_> or a paypal Dec 28 20:06:32 mdp, ooooo! Dec 28 20:06:57 'Do even more DSP!' Dec 28 20:07:27 bradfa, that's what I mean about the difference between Papilio and say XuLA2 Dec 28 20:07:55 you can do different things with each...wider community around the more generalized Papilio One Dec 28 20:08:03 bradfa: http://tristesse.org/FPGA/CheapFPGADevelopmentBoards Dec 28 20:09:06 bradfa, yeah, and immediately eliminate anything with kickstarter next to the entry Dec 28 20:09:08 XC6 is nice Dec 28 20:09:38 heh Dec 28 20:20:56 mdp: whats bad about the kickstarter stuff? Dec 28 20:21:21 they never deliver Dec 28 20:21:36 ah.. unfinished kickstarter stuff Dec 28 20:21:51 well, they promise you to deliver in case they ever get the money Dec 28 20:27:39 KotH, mdp, thanks, I'll have a look Dec 28 20:29:02 KotH: this decade? :) Dec 28 20:29:42 mranostay: they never said when Dec 28 20:29:57 mranostay: or whether they intend to keep their promise Dec 28 20:30:26 mdp, the xess boards look like something I'd want, I wonder if I can boot Linux on OpenRISC in 8 MB of RAM... Dec 28 20:30:43 sounds like a fun challenge, should be possible without much work Dec 28 20:31:10 heck, Debian only consumes about 9 MB on my bone and that's running quite a few services Dec 28 20:37:13 i think the minimum ram requirement of the kernel was raised to 4mb a couple of years ago Dec 28 20:37:22 anything above that should be fine Dec 28 20:38:21 stahl|lab: that should be "forge" not "lab" ;-) Dec 28 20:40:52 :D Dec 28 20:49:01 howdy _chase_ Dec 28 20:53:03 mranostay, you scared him off Dec 28 20:54:15 ka6sox: boo! Dec 28 21:01:51 bradfa, go to the XuLA2 and don't worry about it. Dec 28 21:02:23 mdp, k, I like the StickIt! breakout, too Dec 28 21:02:48 bradfa, yes! :) Dec 28 21:02:56 probably will get that and the vga & ps2 modules to go with the verilog / vhdl book Dec 28 21:03:00 notice the convenient header orientation too Dec 28 21:03:03 since they have exercises for both those Dec 28 21:03:55 Good afternoon; I installed Ubuntu Quantal from the rcn-ee site on my BeagleBone and I'm trying to get the 3.1MP camera cape working. I do see the cssp_cam succeed (and the cape is detected), but I don't see a /dev/video0 for it, and when I modprobe in mt9t112, it gives me a "No such device" error. Dec 28 21:04:44 I'm used to using v4l cameras, so it's possible I'm just misunderstanding what the dev entry should look like, as well :) Dec 28 21:06:27 bradfa, btw, if you want to start with a simpler foss cpu, I suggest looking at the zpu as it's a zero operand unit...woefully simple 32-bit core Dec 28 21:06:43 I found it easier to follow than OR1k Dec 28 21:06:46 mdp, k, will keep in mind Dec 28 21:06:59 mdp, mostly I'm going to start with the 8 bit picoblaze in the book Dec 28 21:07:02 I think that's the name Dec 28 21:07:12 then I'll work up to 32 bits :) Dec 28 21:07:48 mdp, I assume you don't mean this 'zpu' -> The ZPU is a towed anti-aircraft gun based on the Soviet 14.5 mm KPV heavy machine gun. Dec 28 21:07:54 yeah, doesn't hurt to start there..that's what I went back to as well Dec 28 21:08:01 bradfa, no :) Dec 28 21:08:03 <_av500_> MZXGiant: not sure this is a v4l2 device Dec 28 21:08:08 but that ZPU sounds quite awesome too Dec 28 21:08:16 <_av500_> wiki says nothing about how its accessed Dec 28 21:08:20 _av500_; Nor am I, but to that point, I'm not sure how to access it Dec 28 21:08:22 Yeah :P Dec 28 21:08:35 <_av500_> MZXGiant: hmm Dec 28 21:08:41 <_av500_> its supposed to work with cheese Dec 28 21:08:42 bradfa, http://opensource.zylin.com/zpu.htm Dec 28 21:08:43 <_av500_> thus v4l2 Dec 28 21:08:43 The pdf guides talk about the kernel integration but don't make much mention of how to poke at it Dec 28 21:08:53 <_av500_> so it should be v4l2 Dec 28 21:08:56 mdp, yeah, that was the next google result :) Dec 28 21:09:07 along with opencores Dec 28 21:09:37 bradfa, ok, unbelievable...how do you use google so efficiently and so few others can do the same? Dec 28 21:09:44 <_av500_> he pays for it Dec 28 21:09:45 unpossible Dec 28 21:09:54 like _av500_ I have a paid account Dec 28 21:09:54 aha, "Google Premium" Dec 28 21:10:02 * mdp hacks bradfa's premium account Dec 28 21:10:15 * bradfa says ouch Dec 28 21:10:29 _av500_; "modprobe v4l2-common" comes up with the little splash message in dmesg Dec 28 21:10:38 ("Linux video capture interface: v2.00") Dec 28 21:10:39 <_av500_> thats just v4l2 common Dec 28 21:11:07 Hm. No v4l2 module... I guess I was just assuming it was built into the kernel Dec 28 21:11:18 (since v4l2-common didn't complain) Dec 28 21:12:57 <_av500_> and you run a newer image Dec 28 21:13:01 <_av500_> as said in the wiki? Dec 28 21:13:11 got http://rcn-ee.net/deb/rootfs/quantal/ubuntu-12.10-r2-minimal-armhf-2012-11-29.tar.xz Dec 28 21:13:15 (straight out of the wiki page) Dec 28 21:13:56 I installed the lxde desktop using the instructions also straight out of the wiki, if it matters :P Dec 28 21:16:07 <_av500_> er Dec 28 21:16:30 <_av500_> who said ubuntu has support for that camera? Dec 28 21:16:34 <_av500_> angstrom has Dec 28 21:16:41 <_av500_> and that is what the wiki mentions Dec 28 21:16:56 ffff =/ Dec 28 21:17:13 So it has some magical kernel patch that the Ubuntu image doesn't Dec 28 21:17:14 darn Dec 28 21:17:26 <_av500_> it might not be magical Dec 28 21:17:29 <_av500_> but still needed Dec 28 21:17:36 <_av500_> why would ubunut know about this camera? Dec 28 21:17:44 I saw the kernel patch from the manufacturer Dec 28 21:17:52 referencing all the cssp_camera calls that they added Dec 28 21:17:57 <_av500_> sure Dec 28 21:17:59 and those calls all succeed according to dmesg Dec 28 21:18:08 <_av500_> so you have that driver? Dec 28 21:18:12 <_av500_> in bunut? Dec 28 21:18:12 cssp_camera, yes Dec 28 21:19:49 _av500_; http://pastebin.com/t6RERuXd Dec 28 21:20:24 <_av500_> ah ok Dec 28 21:20:27 <_av500_> then Dec 28 21:20:33 <_av500_> no idea Dec 28 21:20:37 Heh :) Dec 28 21:20:38 <_av500_> still, try angstrom first Dec 28 21:20:56 Angstrom strikes me as a "hobbyist"/"dev" image Dec 28 21:20:57 <_av500_> as thta is the official one for support Dec 28 21:21:01 correct me if I'm wrong? Dec 28 21:21:01 <_av500_> and? Dec 28 21:21:04 <_av500_> you are what? Dec 28 21:21:06 <_av500_> a pro? Dec 28 21:21:09 lol Dec 28 21:21:11 I'm not a pro Dec 28 21:21:15 <_av500_> see Dec 28 21:21:23 I'm just the guy configuring one of these for a company that wants to sell things made of them Dec 28 21:21:42 <_av500_> and? Dec 28 21:21:54 <_av500_> you want to sell them running ubtuntu? Dec 28 21:21:57 Right now it's in a prototype-y phase, but for the proof of concept, they wanted something a bit more locked down than Angstrom, AFAIK Dec 28 21:22:04 <_av500_> locked down? Dec 28 21:22:08 Not really. I'm following a requirements document. Dec 28 21:22:09 :P Dec 28 21:22:11 <_av500_> as in? Dec 28 21:22:49 The way they put it, they wanted it totally isolated for shipping Dec 28 21:22:57 <_av500_> buzzwords Dec 28 21:23:04 Not my buzzwords. Dec 28 21:23:05 Angstrom/OE-core based systems are much easier to lockdown than ubuntu Dec 28 21:23:21 <_av500_> wtf does lockdown even mean? Dec 28 21:23:33 go read www.yoctoproject.org Dec 28 21:23:50 that is a good site to point managers at Dec 28 21:23:58 Angstrom builds on that technology Dec 28 21:24:36 thank you Dec 28 21:24:39 that's what I needed :P Dec 28 21:24:42 managerspeak :) Dec 28 21:25:13 <_av500_> still, for making sure the hw is ok, I fail to see why not use angstrom Dec 28 21:25:33 has LInux been considered? Dec 28 21:25:47 we're trying to get a PoC close to final product Dec 28 21:27:15 Unfortunately, my hands are tied on the requirements at the moment. I will toss the yoctoproject URL back up to the managers, though. Dec 28 21:27:32 Hopefully I'll get some support to use Angstrom Dec 28 21:27:34 <_av500_> what requierements? Dec 28 21:27:44 Product/project requirements Dec 28 21:27:52 <_av500_> and hpow do they mandate ubuntu? Dec 28 21:27:55 <_av500_> how Dec 28 21:28:01 My guess? Arbitrary selection. Dec 28 21:28:07 <_av500_> ah Dec 28 21:28:11 <_av500_> ok then Dec 28 21:28:13 But I don't know how they came to that concluson :P Dec 28 21:28:18 *conclusion Dec 28 21:28:26 They may have had some reason that I'm not privvy to Dec 28 21:28:34 <_av500_> well, since the camera does not work in ubunut, that project comes to an early end :) Dec 28 21:28:38 *privy Dec 28 21:28:39 indeed Dec 28 21:28:46 can't type today. =/ Dec 28 21:28:51 <_av500_> lets for shopping Dec 28 21:28:54 <_av500_> go Dec 28 21:29:48 it's probably because ubuntu is linux for human beings Dec 28 21:30:00 heh Dec 28 21:30:15 we have ubuntu, android and linux. pick one :) Dec 28 21:30:19 and angstrom is a unit of measure that humans don't usually grok Dec 28 21:31:04 mranostay, I'm convinced that my reasoning is not that far off of MZXGiant's mgmt justifications Dec 28 21:31:47 As good a guess as any. Dec 28 21:31:58 http://beagleboard.org/latest-images <- fyi, that link for Angstrom 404s for me Dec 28 21:32:18 it's an educated guess based on my knowledge of mgmt decision making industry best practices Dec 28 21:32:44 my mgmt isn't bad, but I'm the only real software/Linux guy here and no one asks my opinion :P Dec 28 21:32:58 your making me laugh mdp - "best pratices" Dec 28 21:33:00 that's industry best practice, yes Dec 28 21:33:04 :P Dec 28 21:33:05