**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 21 02:59:59 2013
Jan 21 03:00:45 <mranostay> ka6sox: probably why we are engineers and not in sales :)
Jan 21 03:04:28 <ka6sox> mranostay, +1`
Jan 21 03:31:11 * XorA|gone missed some mocking :-(
Jan 21 03:34:31 <emeb_mac> a mocking! a mocking! and after that...
Jan 21 03:39:30 <mranostay> heh can a lease even in CA say you can't own guns?
Jan 21 03:40:15 <thurbad> a lease... maybe?
Jan 21 03:40:37 <mranostay> hmm some states that isn't even enforcable.. not sure about CA :)
Jan 21 03:40:38 <emeb_mac> can't say you can't own them - might try to keep them off the premises
Jan 21 03:41:07 <thurbad> right, what emeb typed
Jan 21 03:42:21 <mranostay> well common areas they can clearly restrict
Jan 21 03:43:10 <thurbad> personal areas, they can say all sort of things too, that the government can't
Jan 21 03:43:23 <emeb_mac> no smoking, no pets, etc
Jan 21 03:43:59 <mranostay> varies by state but yes.
Jan 21 03:44:06 <thurbad> they aren't a gov't entity, and don't have to rent to you
Jan 21 03:45:00 <mranostay> of course honestly i wouldn't live in a place like that.. just wondering
Jan 21 03:48:52 <mranostay> thurbad: my current one has a 'do not discharge a firearm in complex'.. if i need to do that.. getting evicted isn't on my mind at that moment :)
Jan 21 03:49:11 <thurbad> heh
Jan 21 03:50:28 <mranostay> ka6sox: so no go on ELC right?
Jan 21 03:51:44 <ka6sox> mranostay, I'll probably go...
Jan 21 03:52:08 <ka6sox> because I'd probably be unhappy if I didn't
Jan 21 03:52:19 <mranostay> we bring joy to your life?
Jan 21 03:52:26 <ka6sox> dunno how I'm going to get from SFO to LAX in time...
Jan 21 03:52:37 <mranostay> geez :)
Jan 21 03:52:51 <ka6sox> if I miss my kids paper my wife will disown me....
Jan 21 03:53:28 <mranostay> disown? i beleive we call that divorce :)
Jan 21 03:56:15 <ka6sox> this would be MUCH worse
Jan 21 04:38:44 <mrpackethead_> are guns allowed at ELC
Jan 21 04:42:42 <prpplague> mrpackethead_: only if it is being held in texas
Jan 21 04:42:53 <prpplague> mrpackethead_: sadly it is in california
Jan 21 04:43:15 <mrpackethead_> so its safe to come
Jan 21 04:43:17 <mrpackethead_> :-)
Jan 21 04:47:31 <prpplague> mrpackethead_: always
Jan 21 04:47:32 <mranostay> prpplague: i'm sure the guys outside on the streets of the tenderloin are totally unarmed :)
Jan 21 04:47:49 <mranostay> there are no illegal guns in SF :)
Jan 21 04:48:29 <mranostay> scared him off
Jan 21 04:55:04 <mranostay> prpplague: trying to judge if 1.0 miles less drunken walking distance is worth $150 a month :)
Jan 21 04:56:02 <cykon> Hmm
Jan 21 04:56:30 <mranostay> don't hmm us
Jan 21 04:56:44 <cykon> When I plug my xbox controller into my beagleboard, [  220.337890] hub 1-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2 prints out into my shell
Jan 21 04:56:57 <cykon> I wonder if its just that it tries to draw too much power?
Jan 21 04:58:48 <mranostay> likely
Jan 21 04:58:57 <mranostay> also musb sucks
Jan 21 04:59:34 * cykon shrugs
Jan 21 05:00:13 <cykon> I was hoping that one controller would run under the USB... but I've heard that mice and such wont even work without an external hub... at least on the classics
Jan 21 05:00:56 <mranostay> have a hub?
Jan 21 05:01:05 <cykon> Nah, which is why I haven't tried it yet xD
Jan 21 05:01:11 <cykon> I'll probably go out to buy one tomorrow
Jan 21 05:01:22 <cykon> I'm sure I can find one at a local store
Jan 21 05:01:23 <mranostay> you powering the bone via usb or wall wart/
Jan 21 05:01:24 <mranostay> ?
Jan 21 05:01:26 <cykon> usb
Jan 21 05:01:31 <mranostay> hehe
Jan 21 05:01:36 <cykon> yeah :3
Jan 21 05:01:40 <mranostay> yeah well that doesn't help :)
Jan 21 05:01:46 <thurbad> powerin =powerout?
Jan 21 05:01:48 <cykon> I know I know
Jan 21 05:02:02 <mranostay> 500 ma - whatever the board is using = left for usb port
Jan 21 05:02:17 <cykon> Yeah =/ I was just hoping that the controller wouldn't use that much
Jan 21 05:02:20 <cykon> and thus would work
Jan 21 05:02:34 <mranostay> we all have hopes and dreams
Jan 21 05:02:41 <cykon> dead hopes and dreams
Jan 21 05:02:54 <cykon> Hmm
Jan 21 05:02:58 <cykon> Now that I think about it
Jan 21 05:02:58 <thurbad> all I want is a pony :P
Jan 21 05:03:24 <cykon> When I run my simple libusb code to print out all of my USB devices, one always appears... which makes sense since I'm powering it with usb
Jan 21 05:03:39 <mranostay> all i want is date a supermodel and run around belize
Jan 21 05:03:41 <cykon> now... say I want to also communicate along that usb port with whatever it's connected to
Jan 21 05:03:50 <cykon> that should work... right? :3
Jan 21 05:05:02 <toneeee> mranostay man you just revealed you are mcaffee lol
Jan 21 05:05:14 <mranostay> i wish
Jan 21 05:05:41 <cykon> lies! lets extort him!
Jan 21 05:05:51 <toneeee> rock on!
Jan 21 05:05:56 <mranostay> for what? he is back in the states
Jan 21 05:06:29 <cykon> That's just what *you* want us to think
Jan 21 05:07:02 <toneeee> heh
Jan 21 05:12:22 * mranostay wonders how much money he need to be crazy like that
Jan 21 05:13:05 <cykon> Wasn't his story that he gave a bunch of infected laptops out in the country
Jan 21 05:13:10 <cykon> and hired people to monitor them
Jan 21 05:13:11 <cykon> lol
Jan 21 05:14:24 <mranostay> beward of greek^H^H^H^Hgeeks baring gifts
Jan 21 05:25:02 <emeb_mac> watch out who you bare your gifts to.
Jan 21 06:21:20 <mrpackethead_> gifts of bitcoin?
Jan 21 06:23:49 <mranostay> can i pay my rent in bitcoins?
Jan 21 06:24:04 <mrpackethead_> of course.
Jan 21 06:26:27 <mrpackethead_> if your landlord is in the mafia
Jan 21 06:27:22 <mranostay> i don't live in chinatown
Jan 21 06:49:52 <mrpackethead_> midi cape
Jan 21 06:49:54 <mrpackethead_> :-)
Jan 21 06:50:01 <mrpackethead_> geppers these customers dont' give up
Jan 21 06:50:06 <mrpackethead_> show them somethign
Jan 21 06:50:13 <mrpackethead_> and they want a hudnred other thigns
Jan 21 06:50:28 <mranostay> hmm there is a market for capes?
Jan 21 06:50:46 <mrpackethead_> nope.  capes by themselves are no use to anyone
Jan 21 06:50:54 <mrpackethead_> "solutions" to problems are
Jan 21 06:51:35 <mranostay> hmmm $1500 for a studio in Sunnyvale
Jan 21 06:51:46 <mranostay> has to be a dump
Jan 21 06:51:57 <mrpackethead_> i had to respin the electroplating controller cape
Jan 21 06:52:03 <mrpackethead_> doh.. stupid me.
Jan 21 06:52:15 <mrpackethead_> lucky it took me less than 80 minutes to ahve a new pcb
Jan 21 06:53:27 <mrpackethead_> new favorite workshop chemical is citric acid.
Jan 21 06:53:27 <mranostay> electroplating cape?
Jan 21 06:53:44 <mrpackethead_> its *very* good at cleaning oxididation from Copper pcb
Jan 21 06:54:08 <mrpackethead_> yes.. i am using a beagle to control the electroplatter i've build
Jan 21 06:54:09 <mrpackethead_> built
Jan 21 06:54:22 <mrpackethead_> four PWM outputs
Jan 21 06:55:02 <mrpackethead_> problem is i keep thinkgin of ways to improve it!
Jan 21 07:18:22 <_av500_> yawn
Jan 21 07:18:29 <_av500_> I'm iced in
Jan 21 07:21:07 <dm8tbr> ice ice baby
Jan 21 07:22:48 <_av500_> yeah
Jan 21 07:22:53 <_av500_> tram is down
Jan 21 07:23:32 <mranostay> dm8tbr: ELC this year?
Jan 21 07:23:44 <dm8tbr> mranostay: most likely, yes
Jan 21 07:24:49 * mranostay polishs up his slides
Jan 21 07:25:19 <dm8tbr> yes polish up for the Polish :)
Jan 21 07:25:45 <mranostay> heh
Jan 21 07:26:12 <mranostay> i'm using my PRUSS demo with my geiger cape.. i'll show them :P
Jan 21 07:27:37 <dm8tbr> The Polish are not very fond of the PRUSSians...
Jan 21 07:27:43 <mranostay> haha
Jan 21 07:28:05 <dm8tbr> neither of the pRUSSians
Jan 21 07:29:19 <mranostay> how about the germans ? :)
Jan 21 07:29:48 <dm8tbr> depends on the region and even then only one of both
Jan 21 07:47:02 <KotH> morning
Jan 21 07:48:17 <mranostay> dammit!
Jan 21 07:48:31 * mranostay hurls a chocolate brick at KotH 
Jan 21 07:48:37 * KotH ducks
Jan 21 07:48:39 <KotH> hey!
Jan 21 07:48:52 <KotH> dont throw your usian brown bricks at me!
Jan 21 07:49:03 * KotH only eats high quality swiss chocolate
Jan 21 07:49:47 <mranostay> how about American cheese?
Jan 21 07:49:49 * mranostay ducks
Jan 21 07:54:43 <_av500_> if is was cheese
Jan 21 07:54:45 <_av500_> it*
Jan 21 07:55:44 <mranostay> well it isn't legally cheese
Jan 21 07:55:53 <mranostay> the beer as well :P
Jan 21 07:57:55 <KotH> "solid diary product"?
Jan 21 07:58:04 <KotH> or is it non-diary?
Jan 21 07:58:09 <mranostay> heh
Jan 21 07:58:47 <KotH> http://attila.kinali.ch/SiO2marked.jpg
Jan 21 07:59:00 <mranostay> swiss or provolone ftw
Jan 21 07:59:16 <mranostay> glass?...
Jan 21 08:00:02 <KotH> dude! silicon chips!
Jan 21 08:00:13 <_av500_> makes it white I guess
Jan 21 08:00:28 <_av500_> or non swtick
Jan 21 08:00:31 <_av500_> stick
Jan 21 08:00:37 <_av500_> teflon coated creamer
Jan 21 08:00:44 <KotH> sounds like toothpaste
Jan 21 08:00:51 <_av500_> yes
Jan 21 08:01:02 <mrpackethead_> the gieger did'nt use the PRU though did it
Jan 21 08:01:04 <mrpackethead_> ?
Jan 21 08:01:04 <_av500_> the gorvernment isputting toothpaste into coffee creamer
Jan 21 08:01:05 <mrpackethead_> mranostay:
Jan 21 08:01:25 <mranostay> mrpackethead_: no
Jan 21 08:01:38 <mrpackethead_> i'd love to come to ELC, and meet you guys
Jan 21 08:01:39 <mranostay> no reason too
Jan 21 08:01:58 <mrpackethead_> but i dont' think my schedule is going to allow it
Jan 21 08:02:12 <KotH> mrpackethead_: elce is better anyways :)
Jan 21 08:02:29 <mrpackethead_> but they speak funny in Europe
Jan 21 08:03:24 <mrpackethead_> Wie sagst du Embedded-Linux in deutscher Sprache?
Jan 21 08:03:59 <CareBear\> eingebautes linuxsystem
Jan 21 08:04:25 <_av500_> lol
Jan 21 08:06:24 <mranostay> mrpackethead_: you can watch some of us uncomformably speaking over the live stream :)
Jan 21 08:08:38 <KotH> mrpackethead_: ganz guet... und so komisch redemer gär nöd
Jan 21 08:08:57 <mranostay> we speak american here thanks :)
Jan 21 08:09:10 <ka6sox> where is my Universal Translator when I need it
Jan 21 08:09:30 <KotH> ka6sox: there *points at av500*
Jan 21 08:09:47 <mranostay> index finger i hope
Jan 21 08:10:20 <KotH> no, with a pointing device
Jan 21 08:11:48 <ka6sox> I always knew av500 was an intelligent Bot
Jan 21 08:11:48 <mranostay> ka6sox: i understood one word of that
Jan 21 08:12:02 <mranostay> und :)
Jan 21 08:14:04 <KotH> mranostay: you're good! :-)
Jan 21 08:14:14 <ka6sox> do embedded systems speak german?
Jan 21 08:14:33 * KotH has worked with system that spoke french
Jan 21 08:14:41 <KotH> so there must be german systems too!
Jan 21 08:14:59 <_av500_> yes, the germans have a system
Jan 21 08:15:06 * KotH is hungry
Jan 21 08:15:08 <_av500_> been fighting it all my life
Jan 21 08:17:04 <CareBear\> germans may have nothing *but* systems
Jan 21 08:17:17 <CareBear\> except for the exceptions
Jan 21 08:18:11 <mranostay> heh
Jan 21 08:18:22 <mrpackethead_> germans are a system
Jan 21 08:18:52 <mrpackethead_> are their bitmarks?
Jan 21 08:18:53 <mranostay> i'm part german but i think i lost that part :P
Jan 21 08:19:13 <mrpackethead_> Ok, so heres a new one
Jan 21 08:19:39 <mrpackethead_> customer says " we have to asses the SAR for a receiver
Jan 21 08:21:25 <KotH> o_0
Jan 21 08:21:30 <KotH> 1) why a SAR
Jan 21 08:21:40 <mrpackethead_> i have no idea
Jan 21 08:21:43 <KotH> 2) why does the customer meddle with ADCs?
Jan 21 08:21:55 <KotH> 3) does he even know what he is talking about?
Jan 21 08:21:58 <mrpackethead_> SAR = Specific Absorbtion Rate
Jan 21 08:22:03 <KotH> ah..
Jan 21 08:22:21 * KotH thought about succesive approximation 
Jan 21 08:22:21 <mrpackethead_> but it seems nonsence if its only a RX
Jan 21 08:22:39 <Russ> SAR, CM EDBD FEET?
Jan 21 08:25:56 <KotH> mrpackethead_: well.. you know.. even a RX can emit
Jan 21 08:26:33 <_av500_> badly shielded LO
Jan 21 08:26:51 <KotH> mrpackethead_: i've heard reports of active TV antennas mounted on boats that emited enough to kill the reception of all GPS receivers in a 2km radius
Jan 21 08:27:11 <ka6sox> re-radiation of the LO is a serious problem
Jan 21 08:27:25 <mranostay> wmat: http://i.imgur.com/Gyno9ue.gif <-- how often does this happen? :)
Jan 21 08:27:32 <KotH> in one case, it wasnt the LO... it was the amplifier oscillating ^^'
Jan 21 08:27:42 <ka6sox> KotH, yuck
Jan 21 08:27:49 <ka6sox> not very stable...
Jan 21 08:27:58 <_av500_> mranostay: happen to the elk?
Jan 21 08:28:04 <KotH> ka6sox: cheap chinese shit
Jan 21 08:28:39 <_av500_> fun trivia, cheap 433mhz remote stuff has to work soon be EU regulation
Jan 21 08:28:41 <ka6sox> KotH, I'm running around San Jose chasing a ghost too...
Jan 21 08:28:46 <KotH> mranostay: someone is trying to apply for the darwin award
Jan 21 08:28:47 <mranostay> _av500_: they are moose here
Jan 21 08:28:57 <_av500_> or that
Jan 21 08:29:00 <ka6sox> mranostay, I've sen elk
Jan 21 08:29:08 <ka6sox> +e
Jan 21 08:29:19 <_av500_> bring and elk to elc
Jan 21 08:29:23 <_av500_> -d
Jan 21 08:29:35 <ka6sox> av500, not my idea of an Ideal Date
Jan 21 08:39:40 <KotH> _av500_: what eu regulation?
Jan 21 08:43:37 <KotH> _av500_: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4521
Jan 21 08:43:39 <mrpackethead_> it guess an RX coudl emit.
Jan 21 08:43:45 <KotH> _av500_: you'll like that comic :)
Jan 21 08:43:56 <mrpackethead_> but Pout must be less tan Pin.
Jan 21 08:46:15 <Cykon> Say I code a usb gadget driver to run on my beagleboard
Jan 21 08:46:24 <Cykon> is it also possible to keep the host functionality?
Jan 21 08:46:34 <KotH> google for OTG
Jan 21 08:46:45 <Cykon> thanks
Jan 21 08:47:14 <mrpackethead_> i'd never seen USB gagdet untill i'd seen a beagle..
Jan 21 08:47:19 <mrpackethead_> are they widespread?
Jan 21 08:47:51 <Cykon> Well, I've just started researching since I want my beagleboard to act as both a client and a host
Jan 21 08:48:03 <Cykon> and as far as i've heard, it's "usb gadget"
Jan 21 08:48:10 <Cykon> idk =/
Jan 21 08:48:45 <mrpackethead_> same port?
Jan 21 08:48:52 <mrpackethead_> or one of each?
Jan 21 08:48:53 <dm8tbr> OTG with musb used to be a serious pain. does that even work nowadays?
Jan 21 08:49:04 <Cykon> I hope so <.< >.>
Jan 21 08:49:14 <Cykon> I really hope so
Jan 21 09:00:16 <_av500_> host and device at the same time, no
Jan 21 09:00:50 <_av500_> mranostay: every mobile phone with usb is a "gadget"
Jan 21 09:01:01 <_av500_> when connecting to the PC
Jan 21 09:01:11 <_av500_> the ones that run linux run "usb gadget"
Jan 21 09:02:06 * Russ notes panto and koen harshing on python
Jan 21 09:02:29 <Cykon> Well I don't mean at the same time on a single usb port
Jan 21 09:02:47 <Cykon> What I mean is, on the beagleboard, could I use one port as a gadget, while keeping the functionality of the other ports as hosts
Jan 21 09:02:56 * Cykon goes back to reading about OTG
Jan 21 09:03:57 <dm8tbr> duuuuh
Jan 21 09:04:19 <dm8tbr> that's the default behaviour of the image that ships with it?
Jan 21 09:04:36 <Cykon> Well I don't know y.y I'm a noob
Jan 21 09:06:40 <_av500_> Cykon: yes
Jan 21 09:07:31 <Cykon> Kk sweet
Jan 21 09:10:39 <ka6sox-away> reading thru DT files makes my head hurt....that is all...nite!
Jan 21 09:12:19 <Cykon> Wait -- is the micro port of the beagleboard by default an OTG port?
Jan 21 09:13:29 <Cykon> yes, yes it is
Jan 21 09:13:37 <ka6sox-away> its Grey?
Jan 21 09:17:10 <mrpackethead_> it is grey
Jan 21 09:17:22 <mrpackethead_> does colour define something?
Jan 21 09:17:46 <mrpackethead_> the things you learn at #beagle
Jan 21 09:18:59 <_av500_> gray?
Jan 21 09:19:59 <mrpackethead_> gray? or grey?
Jan 21 09:21:12 <_av500_> grau
Jan 21 09:21:16 <_av500_> gris
Jan 21 09:21:22 <_av500_> sivo
Jan 21 09:21:56 <ka6sox-away> gris
Jan 21 09:22:37 <ka6sox-away> mrpackethead_, according to the USB spec the connector *should* be gray/grey/gris for a OTG connector
Jan 21 09:23:43 <mrpackethead_> i've learned something new
Jan 21 09:23:44 <mrpackethead_> :-)
Jan 21 09:23:48 <ka6sox-away> white for master and black for slave (iirc)
Jan 21 09:24:16 <ka6sox-away> and Blue for USB3
Jan 21 09:24:18 <Cykon> wait now I'm confused
Jan 21 09:24:22 <mrpackethead_> the ports in my Macbook are grey
Jan 21 09:24:33 <Cykon> Are we talking about the plug that the USB goes into?
Jan 21 09:24:47 <Cykon> if so, yes the micro port on my beagle is grey
Jan 21 09:25:02 <Cykon> and the manual says it's OTG, so I can only assume that's what you're talking about
Jan 21 09:25:08 <ka6sox-away> then that should be an OTG connector
Jan 21 09:25:32 <ka6sox-away> so ground the right pin and Viola! instant master
Jan 21 09:25:36 <mrpackethead_> the port on teh mac mini are black
Jan 21 09:25:44 <Cykon> Awesome!
Jan 21 09:25:50 <Cykon> I actually only need that one to be a slave
Jan 21 09:25:56 <mrpackethead_> the ports on thte TV decoder, are white
Jan 21 09:26:01 <Cykon> I just wanted my other USB port to stay as a master
Jan 21 09:26:05 <_av500_> Cykon: that is default
Jan 21 09:26:12 <_av500_> Cykon: it will
Jan 21 09:26:12 <Cykon> mhm^
Jan 21 09:26:20 <_av500_> its a totally different usb controller
Jan 21 09:26:22 <Cykon> Now I just need to figure out how to write a slave driver, since I can't use libusb or anything like that
Jan 21 09:26:24 <_av500_> read the SRM
Jan 21 09:26:34 <_av500_> Cykon: use gadget_fs
Jan 21 09:26:36 <mrpackethead_> mmm, tis got both
Jan 21 09:26:47 <_av500_> that a gadget driver you can open/read/write
Jan 21 09:26:55 <_av500_> for a simple protocoll that should be enough
Jan 21 09:27:05 <_av500_> -l
Jan 21 09:27:12 <Cykon> ooo? I'll take a look at it for sure! Thanks a bunch!
Jan 21 09:27:22 <mrpackethead_> i much perfer plugging thigs togehte rwith ethernet
Jan 21 09:27:28 <_av500_> we used that to implement MTP device
Jan 21 09:27:31 <ka6sox-away> gogo USB Gadget
Jan 21 09:28:04 <mrpackethead_> i like the any to any connectivity of ethernet
Jan 21 09:28:30 <Cykon> Yeah it's nice, but i'm trying to spoof a computer (xbox) into thinking my beagleboard is a keyboard (xbox controller)
Jan 21 09:28:38 <Cykon> so I need the USB :)
Jan 21 09:28:53 <mrpackethead_> ahh
Jan 21 09:29:14 <mrpackethead_> Ckykon, that a cool idea
Jan 21 09:29:18 <mrpackethead_> :-)
Jan 21 09:29:26 <Cykon> yeah I know! I've had it in the back of my head for quite some time
Jan 21 09:29:36 <Cykon> So I figure on the other usb port i'll stick a mouse / keyboard
Jan 21 09:29:43 <Cykon> and then just try to do some conversions
Jan 21 09:29:51 <Cykon> boom, keyboard / mouse on an xbox
Jan 21 09:30:02 <Cykon> will it work smoothly? Who knows... it sounds like a fun project though
Jan 21 09:32:18 <_av500_> Cykon: sounds doable
Jan 21 09:32:25 <_av500_> go for it
Jan 21 09:32:30 <Cykon> Mhm! I am
Jan 21 09:35:01 <mrpackethead_> http://hackaday.com/2012/06/29/turning-an-arduino-into-a-usb-keyboard/  similar
Jan 21 09:36:10 <_av500_> yes
Jan 21 09:36:31 * _av500_ has a usb device PCI card in his PC
Jan 21 09:36:37 <Cykon> Oooh, I'll take a look at that
Jan 21 09:37:04 <mrpackethead_> im quie interested in this
Jan 21 09:37:13 <Cykon> As am I! :D
Jan 21 09:37:20 <mrpackethead_> this woudl be interesting for something i have thought about.
Jan 21 09:37:24 <KotH> av500: mini-pci-e in a riser card? :)
Jan 21 09:39:13 <_av500_> KotH: no, PIC
Jan 21 09:39:15 <_av500_> PCI
Jan 21 09:39:17 <_av500_> sec
Jan 21 09:40:31 <_av500_> Net2280 PCI card
Jan 21 09:40:35 <_av500_> might be gone by now
Jan 21 09:40:54 <_av500_> http://www.plxtech.com/products/usbcontrollers/legacy
Jan 21 09:41:31 <mrpackethead_> arduion-cape?
Jan 21 09:47:03 <_av500_> Cykon: btw: http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/
Jan 21 09:47:22 <Cykon> Yeah I was actually just reading through that page, thanks though
Jan 21 09:47:57 <Cykon> Where it talks about GadgetFS, I guess the code they supplied is an example driver... so i'll probably read through that to see how it really works code wise
Jan 21 09:48:11 <_av500_> yes
Jan 21 09:48:14 <_av500_> start from there
Jan 21 09:48:31 <Cykon> Sweet, will do
Jan 21 09:54:22 <mrpackethead_> man if i could hire some of you guys
Jan 21 09:54:31 <mrpackethead_> i'd not have to do any work
Jan 21 09:54:39 <Cykon> but doing the work is the whole fun part!
Jan 21 09:55:12 <mrpackethead_> this is something i'd like to mess with http://beagleboard.org/project/miniECG/
Jan 21 09:55:20 <Cykon> And plus, chances are -- i'll never learn any of this in any of my remaining uni classes... so its all for the better I suppose
Jan 21 09:56:26 <mrpackethead_> yup
Jan 21 09:56:40 <mrpackethead_> what are you study Cykon
Jan 21 09:56:51 <Cykon> I'm a computer science major
Jan 21 09:57:03 <mrpackethead_> i'm just in the process of hiring a soon to be grad
Jan 21 09:57:13 <mrpackethead_> had him work on a project for me
Jan 21 09:57:19 <Cykon> Oh nice!
Jan 21 09:58:02 <mrpackethead_> what do you when a new grad can turn out 3x the work of a 20 year + EE
Jan 21 09:58:33 <mrpackethead_> it brings some challenges to how we manage and reward people.
Jan 21 09:58:49 <Cykon> Yeah definitely
Jan 21 09:59:29 <mrpackethead_> well worth reading the beagle project list
Jan 21 09:59:52 <Cykon> Yeah? I'm sure it's probably a really good way to get ideas for future projects
Jan 21 10:00:04 <mrpackethead_> yeah, i'm just having a look
Jan 21 10:00:12 <mrpackethead_> often it just gives ideas for other proejcts
Jan 21 10:00:58 <Cykon> Oh for sure!
Jan 21 10:01:26 <Cykon> I'm torn between some home automation stuff and a self balancing quad copter after this one
Jan 21 10:01:34 <Cykon> home automation seems like it would be pretty easy though
Jan 21 10:01:40 <Cykon> I'd just use some X10 stuff
Jan 21 10:01:45 <mrpackethead_> compared to the quad copter
Jan 21 10:01:47 <mrpackethead_> X10 sucks
Jan 21 10:01:55 <Cykon> yeah that too :)
Jan 21 10:01:59 <mrpackethead_> its a peie of *crapy* tech
Jan 21 10:02:04 <Cykon> yeah?
Jan 21 10:02:04 <mrpackethead_> run some ethernet aroudn your house
Jan 21 10:02:10 <mrpackethead_> its slow
Jan 21 10:02:13 <mrpackethead_> unrelaible
Jan 21 10:02:31 <_av500_> zigbee :)
Jan 21 10:02:32 <Cykon> Actually, before I had x10 suggested to me, I was thinking about just doing it all through a network
Jan 21 10:03:11 <Cykon> I figured it'd be pretty easy to just interface with wired/wireless
Jan 21 10:03:35 <Cykon> Though the quadcopter is going to be pretty hard, it'll give me a chance to buff up some of my math for sure
Jan 21 10:04:20 <Cykon> Though... I have to finish this usb project first!
Jan 21 10:04:33 <mrpackethead_> make sure you let us know how you get on with it
Jan 21 10:04:48 <Cykon> Most certainly
Jan 21 10:07:35 <KotH> mrpackethead_: actually, you can hire me :-)
Jan 21 10:07:52 <mrpackethead_> KotH, your not sutibly qualified.
Jan 21 10:07:57 <KotH> lol
Jan 21 10:08:13 <KotH> mrpackethead_: what qual would i need? :)
Jan 21 10:09:20 <mrpackethead_> i dont' know
Jan 21 10:09:43 <mrpackethead_> i get to change the rules
Jan 21 10:09:47 <mrpackethead_> dependig on the day
Jan 21 10:10:14 <KotH> hehe
Jan 21 10:11:12 <mrpackethead_> our projects are beneath yours.
Jan 21 10:11:21 <KotH> whut?
Jan 21 10:11:33 <mrpackethead_> yes, ours are very much stuck on teh ground
Jan 21 10:11:37 <mrpackethead_> yours are mile higher
Jan 21 10:11:39 <KotH> not all of our projects are space ^^'
Jan 21 10:11:41 <mrpackethead_> miles(s)
Jan 21 10:12:02 * KotH is currently doing a MVC -> Qt porting
Jan 21 10:12:14 * Cykon scratches his head
Jan 21 10:12:43 * _av500_ relaxes on the couch
Jan 21 10:13:03 <KotH> _av500_: starting your weekend routine already?
Jan 21 10:16:10 <Cykon> I know I am
Jan 21 10:16:14 <Cykon> y.y
Jan 21 10:33:42 <panto> gm
Jan 21 10:35:03 <Russ> morning panto
Jan 21 10:35:19 <panto> hi Russ
Jan 21 10:36:04 <_av500_> KotH: no tram service
Jan 21 10:36:09 <_av500_> no car avaialble
Jan 21 10:36:13 <_av500_> dont want to walk
Jan 21 10:36:19 <_av500_> not crazy enough to bike
Jan 21 10:40:21 <KotH> _av500_: ah...that's why german public stops frequently during winter: you want to have an excuse to have an day off!
Jan 21 11:17:40 <Cykon> time to sleep about USB protocol
Jan 21 12:27:37 <aholler> frozen
Jan 21 12:31:19 <aholler> yesterday I've visited my parents by motorbike. When I left, everything was frozen, including the starter and blinker buttons and mirrors. ;)
Jan 21 12:33:04 <_av500_> as long as the steering was frozen "straight ahead" that should be fine
Jan 21 12:33:15 <_av500_> you can steer by body wight and power sliding
Jan 21 12:33:27 <aholler> brute force helped ;)
Jan 21 12:35:57 <aholler> maybe pilots now do such. I heared airport FRA is closed.
Jan 21 12:36:25 <_av500_> not closed
Jan 21 12:36:29 <_av500_> but very delayed
Jan 21 12:39:33 <aholler> freezing rain is astonishing
Jan 21 12:39:43 <aholler> astonishing
Jan 21 12:39:46 <aholler> uups
Jan 21 12:45:02 <aholler> the whole handlebar was coated with about 5mm ice in around 2h
Jan 21 12:46:40 <KotH> now the question is, why did you take the motorcycle in such weather conditions?
Jan 21 12:48:21 <aholler> Because I can. And I've developed an aversion against driving by car.
Jan 21 12:48:44 <KotH> there is still something called public transport
Jan 21 12:49:37 <aholler> if you have the time and patience.
Jan 21 12:50:37 <KotH> well.. riding a motorcylce under such conditions is close to suicide ^^'
Jan 21 12:51:02 <aholler> so you won't have to kill me
Jan 21 12:51:35 * KotH doesnt kill people
Jan 21 12:51:40 * KotH only kills infidels
Jan 21 12:52:51 <aholler> don't discuss with fools, they will pull you down to their level and beat you with experience
Jan 21 12:55:06 <KotH> being a fool is cool!
Jan 21 13:00:19 <aholler> +then
Jan 21 13:52:52 <wmat> mranostay: that happens a lot. That bow hunter is crazy!
Jan 21 14:01:00 <mdp> we had a good rain wash the salt of the roads...so I saw a few of the local 25K+ USD bikes on the road last week
Jan 21 14:01:17 <mdp> a rare winter sight
Jan 21 14:02:21 <mdp> _av500_: you are old...I also have a net2280 card ;)
Jan 21 14:04:16 <_av500_> :)
Jan 21 14:04:38 <_av500_> mdp: yep, we are
Jan 21 14:05:04 <mdp> ouch
Jan 21 14:05:32 <_av500_> that card was a godsend
Jan 21 14:07:41 <mdp> yeah, I recall we got it to work on some no-longer-existing-smartphone-company project in parallel with the board bringup
Jan 21 14:08:16 <mdp> back when composite cdc ether / serial / foo in linux was tough
Jan 21 14:08:38 <mdp> it's sits in my box of cards here now
Jan 21 14:08:44 <mdp> *it
Jan 21 14:09:14 <mdp> this may have led to my intense hatred of USB
Jan 21 14:10:42 <dm8tbr> that's why it's called the useless serial bus
Jan 21 14:11:03 <mru> and it's not even a bus
Jan 21 14:11:37 <dm8tbr> yeah. it's a point-to-point connect and lots of brainfuck
Jan 21 14:11:48 <mru> half duplex yuck
Jan 21 14:14:43 <Em`Zee> Good morning, I'm looking for which narcissus platform to use for a BeagleBone A6
Jan 21 14:15:12 <koen> Em`Zee: same as every Beaglebone: 'beaglebone'
Jan 21 14:15:25 <Em`Zee> There is no "beaglebone", just a "beagleboard"
Jan 21 14:16:00 <Em`Zee> Since they're entirely different specs between the two to my eye (looking at the spec sheet), I had my doubts on that arch
Jan 21 14:16:01 <koen> Em`Zee: have you read the news items on the angstrom website?
Jan 21 14:16:14 <Em`Zee> Apparently not :P
Jan 21 14:16:35 <Em`Zee> Ahhhh
Jan 21 14:18:45 <Em`Zee> I'm surprised you guys don't have a package for IceWM or somesuch
Jan 21 14:18:58 <Em`Zee> xfce looks like the lightest weight environment available on Narcissus
Jan 21 14:23:39 <Em`Zee> koen; Just as an FYI, I got two red "X"s while doing the build
Jan 21 14:23:48 <Em`Zee> next to "task-proper-tools" and "ntpclient"
Jan 21 14:36:29 <Em`Zee> task-xfce46-base and task-xfce46-extras also get Xs
Jan 21 14:36:32 <Em`Zee> :(
Jan 21 14:36:33 <Em`Zee> Sad.
Jan 21 14:59:50 <mdp> NishanthMenon: RMK maintains the OMAP DMA stuff, should bring it to his attention
Jan 21 15:00:01 <NishanthMenon> mdp, sure
Jan 21 15:00:15 <NishanthMenon> mdp, i think it is a dts info missing
Jan 21 15:00:33 <mdp> hrm
Jan 21 15:00:46 <NishanthMenon> have'nt dug at which entry etc..
Jan 21 15:01:49 <mdp> it wouldn't surprise me..there's a lot of corner cases to deal with that can be triggered by the fact that we still have dma resources populated from hwmod, both the omap-dma and edma private apis get instantiated via in driver platform device creation for legacy reasons...etc.
Jan 21 15:02:04 <mdp> then there's both the !DT and DT cases that have to be handled for omap-dma
Jan 21 15:02:19 <mdp> ugh, thankless meeting time
Jan 21 15:13:33 <_av500_> rpibone killer: http://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/a10s-olinuxino-micro-first-prototypes-work-fine/
Jan 21 15:14:53 <Donny3000> Hello All. I'm developing with the beaglebone and would like to make use of the ePWM channels in the PWMSS peripherals.  I've been reading the TI Reference Manual (SPRUH73G) getting familiar with the PWMSS.  Reading section 15.2.2.2 - Proper Interrupt Initialization Procedure for the ePWM module and it mentioned "Disable global interrupts (CPU INTM)" and "Disable ePWM Interrupts".  What register contains the global interrupt flag?
Jan 21 15:15:53 <Donny3000> I've looked through the manual trying to find it, but I can't find the section documenting the global interrupt enable flag
Jan 21 15:20:40 <dm8tbr> _av500_: now the most important question is...
Jan 21 15:20:56 <dm8tbr> do they have an irc channel we can invade and troll?
Jan 21 15:21:52 <dm8tbr> "Freenode IRC channel #olimex was created few months ago"
Jan 21 15:24:26 <crashovrd> tbh, it all comes down to support.
Jan 21 15:24:49 <crashovrd> raspberry pi has sdcard images on the main site that you can grab and it 'just works'
Jan 21 15:25:17 <crashovrd> yeah, i *can* compile my own kernel
Jan 21 15:25:24 <crashovrd> and pull in patches from all over the internet
Jan 21 15:25:39 <crashovrd> was dissapointed beagleboard never got that
Jan 21 15:25:50 <crashovrd> the 'official' sd card image
Jan 21 15:25:56 <crashovrd> it had the latter
Jan 21 15:26:59 <dm8tbr> there are official validation images...
Jan 21 15:27:28 <crashovrd> is there one with working sgx and dsp?
Jan 21 15:27:30 <crashovrd> link me to it
Jan 21 15:27:37 <crashovrd> i was asking for that
Jan 21 15:27:55 <crashovrd> beagleboard C3
Jan 21 15:28:15 <crashovrd> i tried all the angstrom ones
Jan 21 15:28:27 <crashovrd> i tried the ubuntu one
Jan 21 15:29:23 <crashovrd> dont need or care about x11
Jan 21 15:29:35 <jackmitchell> _av500_: even better is that Pengutronix (IIRC) is doing the mainline A1x support at the moment
Jan 21 15:31:34 <jackmitchell> does anyone have any companies to recommend for low cost arm modules for production use
Jan 21 15:32:00 <jonand> arm modules is a pretty big scope...
Jan 21 15:32:14 <jonand> ... and so is low cost
Jan 21 15:32:17 <jackmitchell> run Linux, prefs mainline
Jan 21 15:32:26 <jackmitchell> < £30
Jan 21 15:32:36 <jackmitchell> 100 unit batches
Jan 21 15:33:09 <jackmitchell> I'm looking at multime AM335x modules at the moment but they seems to be hovering around ~£50 mark per module
Jan 21 15:33:31 <jonand> have you asked variscite?
Jan 21 15:33:39 <jackmitchell> there are some cheaper i.MX28 modules but they're few and far between and I also worry about longevity
Jan 21 15:33:48 <jackmitchell> I have spoken to Varscite
Jan 21 15:34:00 <jackmitchell> they're on my list, have you had a good experience with them?
Jan 21 15:34:19 <jackmitchell> one of my issues is that they mandate that you buy a Dev board from them, complete with touch screen for $900
Jan 21 15:34:22 <jonand> jorjin showed a cheap omap5 module at electronica this year
Jan 21 15:34:34 <jonand> don't know if they have anything on am335x though
Jan 21 15:34:47 <agmlego> jackmitchell: How do you mean longevity? Freescale guarantees their chips to be in supply for years.
Jan 21 15:35:35 <jonand> I don't think actual chip supply is a problem for neither TI nor Freescale. That said, large companies might sometimes get rid of entire business units
Jan 21 15:35:42 <jonand> so support is nil
Jan 21 15:36:03 <jackmitchell> well the mx28 is an older chip and some module manufacturors I have spoken to suggest that I may have problems in 5-10 years with the modules still being in production
Jan 21 15:36:03 <jonand> but if your product is done and you don't need any more support you will most likely be fine anyway
Jan 21 15:36:39 <crashovrd> isnt the lifespace of an arm device measured in months these days?
Jan 21 15:36:58 <jackmitchell> as you mention, the chip isn't the problem per se, but longevity of the module I suppose is what I meant
Jan 21 15:37:03 <jackmitchell> crashovrd: indeed :(
Jan 21 15:37:07 <emeb_mac> measured in days this month
Jan 21 15:38:27 <jackmitchell> another issue is that a lot of the arm modules seem to be focused on graphic displays and such, where as our application is more of headless controller
Jan 21 15:38:37 <Em`Zee> Man, I just can't seem to get Narcissus to work on this =/
Jan 21 15:39:42 <jackmitchell> so a non-gpu, small memorym Linux based and low cost module is tough to find
Jan 21 15:40:25 <jackmitchell> am335x is complete overkill, but it seems to be very readily available on still on the cheaper side of the market
Jan 21 15:40:42 <crashovrd> i thought i saw some Atmel ARM designs that fit that category
Jan 21 15:41:03 <crashovrd> i need the pretty graphics
Jan 21 15:41:27 <crashovrd> so i dont venture much into that 'other world'
Jan 21 15:41:50 <agmlego> jackmitchell: Are you sure you want an A-series ARM then? If you want no GPU, small memory, that sounds like an M-series, like the Stellaris line from TI.
Jan 21 15:42:05 <crashovrd> its a bit ironic that strip down arm modules i have seen are costing more that full blown gpu enabled ones
Jan 21 15:44:20 <jackmitchell> agmlego: possibly, I'll investigate - to be honest I haven't been searching for any specific series, just low-cost readily available modules
Jan 21 15:45:04 <jackmitchell> crashovrd: yes, it seesm to be the case that the do everything for everybody off the shelf modules are the cheapest even though they're the most fully featured
Jan 21 15:45:04 <agmlego> jackmitchell: If I may ask, what are you wanting to do with these?
Jan 21 15:45:35 <jackmitchell> agmlego: its a control system which manages multiple FPGA's and runs a websocket enabled webserver for GUI interaction
Jan 21 15:45:52 <agmlego> jackmitchell: Do you *need* it to run Linux?
Jan 21 15:46:07 <agmlego> Because this is sounding increasingly like a job for an M-series.
Jan 21 15:46:08 <jackmitchell> agmlego: the application is already 70% done
Jan 21 15:46:32 <agmlego> jackmitchell: Before you got a processor chosen? Bad form.
Jan 21 15:46:47 <jackmitchell> agmlego: it's been done completely by myself in a very short time period due to the advantages of Linux and readily available libraries
Jan 21 15:47:03 <jackmitchell> agmlego: we knew we were going to use Linux for portability and extendability
Jan 21 15:47:15 <agmlego> Still...what are you programming for if you do not even have a processor?
Jan 21 15:47:29 <jackmitchell> to get the prototype and development done
Jan 21 15:47:42 <agmlego> Or did you just write a skeleton to talk with all the hardware?
Jan 21 15:47:53 <jackmitchell> yes, there is no ties to the current processor or system
Jan 21 15:48:05 <jackmitchell> apart from it needs to run Linux
Jan 21 15:48:05 <agmlego> (in which case, you are likely far less than 70% done... ;-P)
Jan 21 15:49:00 <jackmitchell> there were a lot of software architecture problems that needed to be tried and tested in order to help build the fpga design
Jan 21 15:49:37 <jackmitchell> but yes, I would _like_ to think I'm 70% done :P
Jan 21 15:49:45 <jackmitchell> in reality...
Jan 21 15:50:58 <agmlego> Well...if you *really* want Linux, the Cortex-M3 has several ports, and there is always uclinux.
Jan 21 15:51:13 <agmlego> Remember, all you said was you wanted Linux. ;-P
Jan 21 15:51:22 * mru would not recommend that
Jan 21 15:51:55 <jackmitchell> agmlego: haha, yes I did
Jan 21 15:52:31 <agmlego> jackmitchell: Now, if you wanted to clarify your actual requirements, we might be able to be more useful.
Jan 21 15:52:46 <jackmitchell> ok, let me try
Jan 21 15:52:51 <agmlego> But with the information given, I recommend running uclinux on an M.,
Jan 21 15:53:11 <mru> I wouldn't recommend uclinux, ever
Jan 21 15:53:19 <mdp> +1
Jan 21 15:54:06 <Em`Zee> Every time I read "uclinux" I think "University of California, Linux"
Jan 21 15:54:19 <jackmitchell> essentially I want to be able take the work I have done in development on the BeagleBone and transfer it to a production module that can be integrated into our custom baseboards
Jan 21 15:55:36 <jackmitchell> but I'm trying to get the cheapest module possible for our intial use case - which can then be scaled up at a later date to a more powerful module if needed
Jan 21 15:56:06 <jackmitchell> i.e. imx28 > am335x > im61 would be an example
Jan 21 15:56:15 <agmlego> jackmitchell: And how many of these widgets are you making, at what budget?
Jan 21 15:56:19 <jackmitchell> of scaling as time goes on and module costs come down
Jan 21 15:56:32 <jackmitchell> we're very small, 100 unit batches
Jan 21 15:56:44 <jackmitchell> never more than 1000
Jan 21 15:57:16 <jackmitchell> we're a very niche company, often doing custom software/hardware designs
Jan 21 15:57:42 <jackmitchell> but my new design is modular so we always start with a good base instead of re-inventing the wheel everytime as we have been doing
Jan 21 15:58:11 <agmlego> Budget?
Jan 21 15:58:34 <jackmitchell> i.e. new project used to mean new processor, new OS and totally new codebase
Jan 21 15:58:52 <jackmitchell> I would like to aim for < £30 per module
Jan 21 15:59:09 <jackmitchell> current am335x modules are coming in at £40-£50
Jan 21 15:59:12 <agmlego> That being GBP?
Jan 21 15:59:15 <jackmitchell> yes
Jan 21 15:59:25 <agmlego> OK, fonts are being weird here.
Jan 21 15:59:51 <agmlego> jackmitchell: Where are you looking?
Jan 21 16:00:13 <jackmitchell> directinsight, variscite, phytec and hitex at the moment
Jan 21 16:00:16 <agmlego> Digikey has the AM335x for $26.70/1, which is like 16.82 GBP.
Jan 21 16:00:28 <agmlego> Price breaks take that even lower.
Jan 21 16:00:51 <jackmitchell> is that for a module, or just for the chip?
Jan 21 16:01:04 <agmlego> What do you mean by module?
Jan 21 16:01:10 <agmlego> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AM3352ZCE50/296-34803-ND/3503748
Jan 21 16:01:46 <jackmitchell> http://www.directinsight.co.uk/products/karo/triton-tx48-AM3354-AM3358.html
Jan 21 16:02:50 <agmlego> Ah, you want someone to do all the design work for you. ;-P
Jan 21 16:03:20 <jackmitchell> agmlego: yes, our hardware guys are well behind us software at the moment
Jan 21 16:03:28 <agmlego> jackmitchell: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crystalfontz/cfa-10036-open-hackable-linux-arm-embedded-gpio-mo
Jan 21 16:03:40 <agmlego> Remember, you never mentioned a timeframe. ;-P
Jan 21 16:03:45 <crashovrd> LOL
Jan 21 16:04:34 <crashovrd> $45 for the hardware
Jan 21 16:04:47 <crashovrd> the $25 raspberry pi is still a better value
Jan 21 16:05:11 <agmlego> Ah, right, I am working the exchange rate backwards again.
Jan 21 16:05:13 <jackmitchell> something along those lines would be perfect, apart from I would want integrated NAND rather than micro sd cards
Jan 21 16:05:16 <crashovrd> and will actually have a longer life
Jan 21 16:05:49 <jackmitchell> raspberry pi is also good, apart from dodgy kernel support and I don't know if the quality of the hardware would be up to production quality
Jan 21 16:06:32 <crashovrd> its made by sony facility
Jan 21 16:06:35 <jackmitchell> if they did a white label Raspberry Pi and there was some plan for mainline integration from broadcom I would be all over it
Jan 21 16:06:40 <crashovrd> but i guess it depends on ur environment
Jan 21 16:06:53 <agmlego> How do you mean dodgy kernel support?
Jan 21 16:06:56 <crashovrd> you pay extra for industrial hardening
Jan 21 16:06:56 <jackmitchell> we're looking at these things lasting a minimum of 10 years really
Jan 21 16:07:09 <jackmitchell> which most pre-build modules come with
Jan 21 16:07:45 <crashovrd> well at this point i think you are going to be stuck paying a premium
Jan 21 16:07:52 <jackmitchell> RasPi kernel support is lacking to be nice about it, there is Stephen Warren from nVidia working on it but apart from that....
Jan 21 16:07:54 <crashovrd> as you asking for a lot
Jan 21 16:08:09 <crashovrd> from a consumer oriented disposable society
Jan 21 16:08:31 <agmlego> Yeah. You want long module life, long product line life, hardening, and high-quality boards, in low quantities.
Jan 21 16:08:46 <agmlego> YOu are kind of at the get-what-you-pay-for point...
Jan 21 16:08:47 <crashovrd> re Pi kernel: i think you are confusing it with Tegra
Jan 21 16:08:51 <agmlego> ^^^
Jan 21 16:08:53 <crashovrd> nvidia does tegra
Jan 21 16:08:58 <crashovrd> PI is broadcom
Jan 21 16:09:26 <jackmitchell> tegra is closed off to anything under 1000's of units
Jan 21 16:09:39 <jackmitchell> they're very funny about it
Jan 21 16:10:41 <crashovrd> https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux
Jan 21 16:10:46 <crashovrd> that is the Pi kernel work
Jan 21 16:11:39 <jackmitchell> yes I;ve seen, I run a couple of Pi's at home, but they're far from being worthy in real world use
Jan 21 16:11:52 <Donny3000> Does anyone have experience using the ePWM module of the Beaglebone?
Jan 21 16:12:13 <crashovrd> oh, i dont think i would trust a Pi to run industrial equipment
Jan 21 16:12:20 <crashovrd> or nuclear facilities
Jan 21 16:12:24 <crashovrd> ;)
Jan 21 16:12:28 <jackmitchell> :D
Jan 21 16:13:24 <jackmitchell> I just want a cheap, off the shelf, Linux module that doesn't have a massively old, evil vendor kernel
Jan 21 16:13:45 <jackmitchell> and is built not using crap 1 year consumer grade components
Jan 21 16:13:54 <mdp> koen, "evil vendor kernel" :)
Jan 21 16:14:15 <agmlego> jackmitchell: I think you may want to build one yourself then. ;-P
Jan 21 16:14:20 <crashovrd> well, i think you just signed up for in-house production of said module
Jan 21 16:14:23 <crashovrd> :)
Jan 21 16:14:33 <crashovrd> wow
Jan 21 16:14:39 <crashovrd> we r in agreement i guess
Jan 21 16:15:09 <jackmitchell> I don't really understand why they don't exist. Am I asking for something odd?
Jan 21 16:15:16 <crashovrd> YES
Jan 21 16:15:27 <crashovrd> cost over life
Jan 21 16:15:47 <jackmitchell> I think £30 per module is quite a generous starting point
Jan 21 16:15:47 <crashovrd> and add in industrial
Jan 21 16:16:14 <jonand> um, if your business is in the 100ths of units modules from vendors like phytec and variscite should be right in price for you
Jan 21 16:16:41 <jackmitchell> yes those two are on my list and looking most likely
Jan 21 16:17:29 <jackmitchell> I suppose I had imagined in my head someone pumping out thousands of these general purpose modules at a low price point
Jan 21 16:17:46 <agmlego> What would they be used for, do you think?
Jan 21 16:17:58 <jonand> have a look at jorjin if you don't need physical ports
Jan 21 16:17:59 <agmlego> What is the target market that is supposed to be buying thousands of these?
Jan 21 16:18:26 <agmlego> Just because *you* have a use for a few hundred does not a market make.
Jan 21 16:18:50 <jackmitchell> companies who need low cost arm modules, without the overhead of design or material aquisition
Jan 21 16:18:58 <crashovrd> out of morbid curiosity i have to ask: what is the worst case scenario in the event of module failure?
Jan 21 16:18:59 <agmlego> Companies are not long in the world of making product with no one to sell it to.
Jan 21 16:19:06 <crashovrd> are we talking loss of life? loss of limbs?
Jan 21 16:19:09 <jackmitchell> no
Jan 21 16:19:13 <crashovrd> zombie appocalypse?
Jan 21 16:19:14 <agmlego> Loss of a crossword puzzle?
Jan 21 16:19:26 <jackmitchell> possibly loss of tv
Jan 21 16:19:32 <crashovrd> :S
Jan 21 16:19:34 <mru> loss of temper
Jan 21 16:19:41 <crashovrd> get a $25 PI
Jan 21 16:19:50 <crashovrd> order 2 of them
Jan 21 16:19:54 <jonand> or a mk802
Jan 21 16:19:54 <crashovrd> to replace in 5 yrs
Jan 21 16:20:00 <jackmitchell> *tv at the broadcasting end
Jan 21 16:20:01 <jonand> if you need hdmi anyway
Jan 21 16:20:02 <crashovrd> (per unit)
Jan 21 16:20:09 <agmlego> jackmitchell: Ah, so you are making yet another set-top box.
Jan 21 16:20:15 <agmlego> Oh.
Jan 21 16:20:26 <jonand> no money in the headend?!
Jan 21 16:20:31 <agmlego> So you are making yet another broadcasting widget.
Jan 21 16:20:36 <jsabeaudry> Anyone aware of a tree with a rebase workflow like kernerl.org/linux-omap but more up-to-date with regards to beaglebone?
Jan 21 16:21:36 <jackmitchell> agmlego: we're a long time established broadcast engineering company, yes
Jan 21 16:22:27 <agmlego> jackmitchell: Long-time established, byut with no budget?
Jan 21 16:23:24 <jackmitchell> we have a budget and we could pay a lot for a module, but the cheaper the product is the better
Jan 21 16:23:37 <mru> agmlego: two weeks can feel like a very long time
Jan 21 16:23:55 <_av500_> jackmitchell: you ask too much :)
Jan 21 16:23:58 <jackmitchell> if it's what we have to pay, we'll pay it, but I'm just trying to find out if there are viable alternatives
Jan 21 16:24:00 <_av500_> modules there are
Jan 21 16:24:03 <_av500_> chaeap they are not
Jan 21 16:24:09 <agmlego> mru: Two weeks?
Jan 21 16:24:14 <_av500_> for the aforementoined reasons
Jan 21 16:24:23 <mdp> jackmitchell: we are a long established company with no budget here. ;)
Jan 21 16:24:34 <jackmitchell> mdp: ;)
Jan 21 16:25:11 <aholler> there is a reason (or more than one) why industrial stuff costs more than consumer grade foo
Jan 21 16:25:37 <jackmitchell> I was hoping someone would be able to point out a few more module manufacturers to take into account, or maybe a slightly older chip which is going for cheap these days
Jan 21 16:26:08 <jackmitchell> but it seems chip price is irrelevant and the cost is in the BOM and production
Jan 21 16:26:16 <aholler> chips will go up with prices
Jan 21 16:26:22 <aholler> not down ;)
Jan 21 16:26:26 <Em`Zee> Let's see if this try at Narcissus works
Jan 21 16:27:13 <jackmitchell> which is why super dooper chips tend to be the same price as there lack-luster siblings
Jan 21 16:27:41 <_av500_> well, the chip is part of the BOM
Jan 21 16:28:12 <jackmitchell> yeah, appologies I wasn;t clean I was referring to the amount of support chips for the SoC
Jan 21 16:28:16 <jackmitchell> s/clean/clear
Jan 21 16:29:26 <aholler> think in terms of 10a or such got almost impossible. best bet is to have a look at the automotive market
Jan 21 16:29:43 <_av500_> 10a?
Jan 21 16:29:58 <aholler> for industrial parts, yes
Jan 21 16:30:13 <_av500_> 10ys
Jan 21 16:30:14 <_av500_> ok
Jan 21 16:30:49 <_av500_> keeping a chip in mainline support for 10ys can be challenging :)
Jan 21 16:30:56 <aholler> there is no si for years and a is imho the closest
Jan 21 16:31:05 <_av500_> if you insist on constant kernel updates
Jan 21 16:31:33 <_av500_> if not, evil vendor kernel is as good as any
Jan 21 16:31:37 <aholler> not really, once it is in, things are smoothly
Jan 21 16:31:48 <_av500_> yeah right
Jan 21 16:32:09 <aholler> at least if there aren't dozens people chaning everything ;)
Jan 21 16:32:24 <aholler> and arm will settle too
Jan 21 16:32:33 <aholler> hopefully
Jan 21 16:32:35 <_av500_> next year, if your chip does not have systemd bindings, it's out...
Jan 21 16:33:26 <_av500_> jackmitchell: if your budget allow it, just use a bone
Jan 21 16:33:26 <aholler> doesn't systemd integrate the hw?
Jan 21 16:33:30 <jackmitchell> we don't need industrial spec components like automotive etc but also something thats not made of spit and selotape
Jan 21 16:33:52 <jackmitchell> _av500_: yes I'm looking into the white label bones
Jan 21 16:34:01 <_av500_> still the same thing for 10ys support
Jan 21 16:34:11 <_av500_> dunno if CCO would commit to that
Jan 21 16:34:21 <_av500_> well, you can always buy lifetime stock
Jan 21 16:34:43 <jackmitchell> it's a bit of a different adventure for us as we have always made our own modules in the past
Jan 21 16:35:05 <jackmitchell> yes stocking up is probably going to be the way to fix it
Jan 21 16:35:32 <jackmitchell> but also using linux means that it is easy to port as well, so we could just transfer over if production becomes an issue
Jan 21 16:35:41 <_av500_> yup
Jan 21 16:35:50 <_av500_> your perl script can run anywhere :)
Jan 21 16:36:02 <mdp> _av500_, depends on the chip...it's easy to see 10 years in mainline if you ignore the consumer arm parts
Jan 21 16:36:31 <jackmitchell> mdp: and we don't need 10yr mainline support per se, I would just like mainline support for the development
Jan 21 16:36:35 <crashovrd> i dont get why you need a 10 yr module if your needs are generic
Jan 21 16:36:36 <_av500_> mdp: thing is, do you care?
Jan 21 16:36:43 <jackmitchell> once, we get an image, that will most likely be it
Jan 21 16:36:44 <crashovrd> you can replace module A with module B in a year
Jan 21 16:36:52 <_av500_> jackmitchell: exactly
Jan 21 16:37:09 <_av500_> we shipped products with 2y old kernel
Jan 21 16:37:18 <_av500_> and everybody was ooh and aahhh
Jan 21 16:37:21 <_av500_> how bad of us
Jan 21 16:37:25 <_av500_> so what
Jan 21 16:37:26 <mdp> _av500_: dunno, just responding to your comment about hard to find 10 years in mainline
Jan 21 16:37:33 <_av500_> it did what was advertised
Jan 21 16:37:49 <_av500_> mdp: yeah
Jan 21 16:37:53 <jackmitchell> crashovrd: well our products are in the field and will be bought/used for the next 10-15 years
Jan 21 16:38:02 <mdp> _av500_: I think the general view of things continues to be cast by the long-time shitty support for arm in the kernel and the general poor attention to linux that arm licensees have had
Jan 21 16:38:18 <mdp> so people think that's "normal"
Jan 21 16:38:18 <jackmitchell> we still sell cards today that were first produced in the 80's
Jan 21 16:38:30 <crashovrd> well, pass along the 10yr cost to the customer and order industrial modules
Jan 21 16:38:58 <_av500_> mdp: the next 10ys in the kernel will be arm
Jan 21 16:39:01 <crashovrd> companies come and go in the blink of eye these days
Jan 21 16:39:06 <_av500_> and an occasional X86 revamp my intel
Jan 21 16:39:15 <crashovrd> there is no guarantee your board vendor will be around in a month much less 10 years
Jan 21 16:39:16 <jackmitchell> we do, but it still doesn't mean that we try to get the cheapest possibly price point for the product
Jan 21 16:39:50 <mdp> _av500_, yeah, it's somewhat scary given the poor track record of ARM support
Jan 21 16:42:24 <_av500_> mdp: nobody foresaw a dozen chinese SoC manufacturers spitting out chips every 3 months
Jan 21 16:43:05 <aholler> the comments at your url are funny
Jan 21 16:43:21 <_av500_> ?
Jan 21 16:43:31 <aholler> they don't know what they produce
Jan 21 16:43:40 <_av500_> olimex?
Jan 21 16:43:40 <aholler> (a10x)
Jan 21 16:43:43 <_av500_> ah
Jan 21 16:43:45 <_av500_> of course not
Jan 21 16:43:48 <_av500_> its a chinese chip
Jan 21 16:43:54 <_av500_> its like a fortune cookie
Jan 21 16:44:00 <_av500_> just smaller
Jan 21 16:44:16 <jackmitchell> and less rational
Jan 21 16:48:20 <bradfa> jackmitchell, sorry I'm late to the party, but basically my experience is if you want something to be around for a while you make it yourself and then become good friends with the vendors of each part you want
Jan 21 16:48:22 <bradfa> last time buys are fun
Jan 21 16:49:07 <bradfa> I used to work at Xerox, they did some last time buys in the 90s which then ran out of stock around 2008, at which point hilarity ensued.
Jan 21 16:49:13 <mdp> you probably shouldn't buy parts that are primarily targeted at consumer markets
Jan 21 16:49:33 <bradfa> mdp, thus PowerPC and m68k still are viable platforms
Jan 21 16:49:58 <bradfa> and some ARM9 stuff
Jan 21 16:50:10 <mdp> bradfa, yep, when I was at moto and working powerpc, our salaries were still paid by VME board sales with m68k from a decade earlier
Jan 21 16:50:10 <bradfa> and if you're the gov-ment pentiums
Jan 21 16:50:25 <bradfa> VME, oh how I loved the
Jan 21 16:50:34 <mdp> bradfa, that stuff is still sold as FRUs today
Jan 21 16:50:44 <bradfa> mdp, it still powers an amazing amount of machines
Jan 21 16:51:03 <mdp> it's not subject to the ADD of the consumer market
Jan 21 16:51:03 <bradfa> Xerox is still transistioing from 68040 to PowerPC in some places :)
Jan 21 16:51:15 <bradfa> at least they were
Jan 21 16:51:17 <bradfa> when I left
Jan 21 16:51:29 <bradfa> and VxWorks to Linux
Jan 21 16:51:46 <jackmitchell> bradfa: yes, I believe that's what we've done in the past - I'm trying to save our hardware engineer some time and effort (and hence get the product to market quicker)
Jan 21 16:52:08 <bradfa> jackmitchell, saving hardware engineers time and effort != long lifetime product
Jan 21 16:52:09 <bradfa> :)
Jan 21 16:52:17 <_av500_> :)
Jan 21 16:52:29 <aholler> outsource it
Jan 21 16:52:41 <mdp> bradfa, when I transferred to the vme/cpci commericial group, my day job was vxworks..."night job" was hacking linux on those boards ;)
Jan 21 16:52:42 <aholler> as everything, and thon wonder aboput missing knowledge
Jan 21 16:52:45 <bradfa> quick, cheap, good, long life (you pick 2)
Jan 21 16:53:12 <bradfa> mdp, I wouldn't midn hacking on powerpc and m68k
Jan 21 16:53:30 <bradfa> old stuff usually has errata that actually document the chip :)
Jan 21 16:53:34 <mdp> bradfa, in '98 companies like nortel already had people working on a linux platform to rollout to product teams in the future
Jan 21 16:53:35 <bradfa> or they fix em
Jan 21 16:53:43 <mdp> hehe
Jan 21 16:53:53 <bradfa> can't say the same for mdp's employer :)
Jan 21 16:54:02 <bradfa> at least not the chipcon stuffs
Jan 21 16:54:05 <mdp> bradfa, they pay the bills!
Jan 21 16:54:08 <bradfa> mdp, true
Jan 21 16:54:14 <mdp> consume our stuff!
Jan 21 16:54:19 <_av500_> there is always qnx for real work
Jan 21 16:54:23 <bradfa> mdp, we do, we do
Jan 21 16:54:47 <mdp> _av500_: true that...as long as it's running on TI silicon..it's ok to choose qnx by me ;)
Jan 21 16:55:12 <_av500_> mdp: in the cloud of course
Jan 21 16:55:19 <bradfa> really what I want is RHEL on ARM and PowerPC
Jan 21 16:55:21 <mdp> hehe
Jan 21 16:55:27 <bradfa> and then a license fee that's reasonable
Jan 21 16:55:29 <mdp> you had me at "cloud"
Jan 21 16:55:39 * mdp is now in a cloud trance
Jan 21 16:56:06 <mdp> bradfa, you can have RHEL on aargh64 :)
Jan 21 16:56:18 * emeb is more in a fog
Jan 21 16:56:33 <bradfa> mdp, but I can't actually buy silicon it'll run on in units less than millions (yet)
Jan 21 16:56:40 <bradfa> can I?
Jan 21 16:56:46 <mdp> bradfa, but the vision is in place
Jan 21 16:56:50 <bradfa> vision
Jan 21 16:56:53 <mdp> you should be able to go pretty far on vision
Jan 21 16:56:55 <bradfa> mdp is getting MBA?
Jan 21 16:57:05 <bradfa> :)
Jan 21 16:57:23 <mdp> lol
Jan 21 16:57:38 * mdp is reading this thread on the latest "bone doesn't boot upstream" thing
Jan 21 16:57:56 <bradfa> well, booting is subjective
Jan 21 16:58:14 <aholler> hmm, I wonder why there is no si for years. maybe because they are unable to define it in other terms like seconds?
Jan 21 16:58:15 <mdp> yeah, people want the uart to spit out all that spam..otherwise they think it doesn't work
Jan 21 16:58:41 <aholler> blinking led isn't enough?
Jan 21 16:58:48 <mdp> I guess not
Jan 21 16:59:16 <aholler> it's an faq term -> led blinks, box runs
Jan 21 16:59:37 <bradfa> aholler, blinking LEDs means that LED subsystem and timers work!
Jan 21 16:59:44 <bradfa> that's way better than just a uart
Jan 21 17:00:45 * bradfa gets back to building .deb packages...
Jan 21 17:04:34 <mdp> aholler, apparently since the upstream kernel doesn't support mmc yet, that's something that needs "fixed" ;)
Jan 21 17:04:49 <mdp> in my world, that's a feature not something to be fixed ;)
Jan 21 17:06:09 <_av500_> koen: useless why?
Jan 21 17:06:19 <aholler> good old nand ;)
Jan 21 17:07:30 <aholler> btw., I've heared allwinner now has a proprietary libnand ;)
Jan 21 17:07:48 <_av500_> RK has that too
Jan 21 17:07:52 <_av500_> for some reason
Jan 21 17:08:25 <_av500_> maybe its nothing proprietary but just a "dongle"
Jan 21 17:11:03 <mdp> nand is highly competitive technology...need to keep that sekrit
Jan 21 17:11:29 <aholler> who knows what's in their evil plan to conquer the world
Jan 21 17:12:03 <aholler> hopefully they have pinky's ;)
Jan 21 17:13:08 <jsabeaudry> Any idea what causes the reboot to fail?
Jan 21 17:13:26 <jsabeaudry> "Reboot failed -  System halted"
Jan 21 17:13:36 <aholler> I've seen a patch for such recently
Jan 21 17:13:40 <NishanthMenon> jsabeaudry, most probably reboot hook is missing
Jan 21 17:14:15 <aholler> was something with clock fixes or similiar
Jan 21 17:15:13 <NishanthMenon> aholler, sounds right - at least 3.8-rc4 has .restart hook initialized
Jan 21 17:16:15 <jsabeaudry> Oh sweet, so it's fixed in 3.8-rc4! Joy!
Jan 21 17:16:54 <mdp> aholler, their plan cannot succeed without Brain
Jan 21 17:17:24 <mdp> I think the plan is clear: cheap
Jan 21 17:17:33 <NishanthMenon> v3.7-rc2-123-g187e3e0 seems to be when it was introduced
Jan 21 17:17:47 <alan_o> mdp: trying to take over the world?
Jan 21 17:17:47 <ka6sox> wmat, best, easiest to understand article on DT @ elinux.org
Jan 21 17:21:17 <jsabeaudry> NishanthMenon, where is .restart hook?
Jan 21 17:22:05 <NishanthMenon> jsabeaudry, arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3beagle.c
Jan 21 17:22:22 <NishanthMenon> look towards MACHINE_END
Jan 21 17:23:07 <jsabeaudry> NishanthMenon, Thanks!
Jan 21 17:23:15 <NishanthMenon> jsabeaudry, np
Jan 21 17:23:25 <Em`Zee> So, I feel like a bit of an idiot, but I can't figure out how to make Narcissus work for me. I've selected beaglebone, it puts on just angstrom-task-boot, udev, systemd, systemd-compat-units, and angstrom-version
Jan 21 17:23:37 <Em`Zee> But I can't see anything on the LCD -- like, nothing at all comes up
Jan 21 17:23:47 <Em`Zee> even after 3 minutes of waiting for it to set up a tty :P
Jan 21 17:24:10 <Em`Zee> (mind, stock Angstrom works on this no problem)
Jan 21 17:24:19 <jsabeaudry> Em`Zee, you get nothing on the serial ?
Jan 21 17:24:46 <Em`Zee> no null modem cable here, I'm just trusting the LCD
Jan 21 17:25:05 <XorA> would need some form of gui task
Jan 21 17:25:20 <XorA> it looks like you selected console only
Jan 21 17:25:21 <Em`Zee> on stock angstrom, I saw the tty come up...?
Jan 21 17:25:27 <Em`Zee> Nope, I selected base X
Jan 21 17:25:34 <Em`Zee> no window manager, but just "X11"
Jan 21 17:25:44 <XorA> then X wont start
Jan 21 17:25:46 <XorA> AFAIK
Jan 21 17:25:49 <Em`Zee> (I want to try to get something like lxde on there but Narcissus doesn't have an option for it)
Jan 21 17:26:57 <Em`Zee> Also, if I'm using just a disk imager program (win32 disk imager), should I be using OMAP SD or OMAP SD+UBI?
Jan 21 17:27:52 <crashovrd> i never got an image from narcissus when i selected a SD image
Jan 21 17:27:55 <XorA> UBI is for onboard flash
Jan 21 17:27:58 <crashovrd> dont know if that is part of your problem or not
Jan 21 17:28:10 <Em`Zee> I got a gzipped image, that was okay
Jan 21 17:28:27 <Em`Zee> alright, so just SD. I think that's what I used, but I'm going to try again with xfce enabled
Jan 21 17:29:04 <aholler> did you have had a look if X really did't start?
Jan 21 17:29:48 <wmat> ka6sox: DT?
Jan 21 17:30:31 <alan_o> wmat: yeah, I think that can probably help us here
Jan 21 17:30:43 <Em`Zee> aholler; I have no other way into the device, but I was under the impression that the LCD4 would start as a standard output device, not contingent on X bindings
Jan 21 17:31:00 <Em`Zee> Angstrom normally gives me a tty, at least, so I figured a narcissus-baked version would too
Jan 21 17:31:01 <Em`Zee> :P
Jan 21 17:31:21 <wmat> alan_o: what are we talking about?
Jan 21 17:31:42 <wmat> dynamic tracing?
Jan 21 17:31:57 <Em`Zee> XorA; Looks like a moot point, btw
Jan 21 17:32:03 <Em`Zee> xfce won't go into the image
Jan 21 17:32:08 <Em`Zee> narcissus fails
Jan 21 17:32:28 <ka6sox> wmat, device tree (or Flattened Device Tree rather)
Jan 21 17:32:53 <ka6sox> Em`Zee, why is that a narcissus fail?
Jan 21 17:33:19 <Em`Zee> ka6sox; That when I check "xfce", Narcissus gives me two red "X"s when it tries to bake the image?
Jan 21 17:33:31 <mdp> alan_o, +1, always helps!
Jan 21 17:34:46 <aholler> Em`Zee: if you don't have a serial you always can fiddle with some echo foo >/bar.txt  in some scripts on the sd-card. enabling logs (somewhere where they are persistent) might be an idea too
Jan 21 17:35:27 <Em`Zee> I'm not even convinced it's booting; the NIC lights won't even come on :P
Jan 21 17:35:36 <mdp> koen, your g+ pwm thread is now becoming amusing
Jan 21 17:36:06 <wmat> ka6sox: there was 2 presentations of device tree at elce2012
Jan 21 17:37:02 <wmat> ka6sox: http://elinux.org/Device_Trees
Jan 21 17:37:21 <ka6sox> that one
Jan 21 17:37:27 <ka6sox> (need coffee)
Jan 21 17:37:43 <wmat> you may need beer ;)
Jan 21 17:37:49 <ka6sox> wmat, true!
Jan 21 17:38:06 <ka6sox> will I see you at ELC (yes mranostay...I am planning on going)
Jan 21 17:38:28 * wmat will be there
Jan 21 17:38:41 <koen> sweet
Jan 21 17:38:45 <wmat> probably trading pizza for elinux.org wiki edits ;)
Jan 21 17:38:49 <Em`Zee> ka6sox; If it's not a narcissus fail, that's great -- I just need to figure out what I'm doing wrong :P
Jan 21 17:38:54 <koen> wmat: \o/
Jan 21 17:39:02 <ka6sox> hiya koen
Jan 21 17:39:25 <ka6sox> Em`Zee, hmmmm
Jan 21 17:39:31 <Em`Zee> I suppose it's possible that's a feed fail, but I'm using the 2012.5 set
Jan 21 17:39:57 <Em`Zee> For reference, I'm using the "beaglebone" machine template on koen's shiny new narcissus :P
Jan 21 17:40:01 <Em`Zee> http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/narcissus/ <- That one
Jan 21 17:40:28 <ka6sox> then thats not my server that is doing that :D
Jan 21 17:40:52 <Em`Zee> haha
Jan 21 17:41:19 <Em`Zee> put the beaglebone target platform on your server and I'll try it there ;)
Jan 21 17:41:24 <ka6sox> mdp, what day are you having the BoF?
Jan 21 17:42:00 <mdp> I dunno when they will schedule it
Jan 21 17:42:17 <mdp> I have to leave friday morning so I predict wed or thurs!
Jan 21 17:43:56 * ka6sox hopes for Wednesday...
Jan 21 17:44:06 <ka6sox> I may have to fly out thursday
Jan 21 17:45:25 <Em`Zee> koen; Any thoughts on my xfce issue, or am I just doing something horribly wrong? ;)
Jan 21 17:53:32 <XorA> hey koen
Jan 21 17:59:42 * Em`Zee rides the wave
Jan 21 18:02:18 <XorA> hey ka6sox
Jan 21 18:02:53 <ka6sox> morning XorA
Jan 21 18:15:46 <aholler> hehe, koen discovered nonthreading in python ;)
Jan 21 18:31:37 <spacecolonyone> Hi All, Just dropping in to mention I finally found a solution to my issue of the BBxM with angstrom and connman not pulling an IP on a USB ethernet device automatically: ./test-connman autoconnect <service> true
Jan 21 18:40:01 <aholler> speaking about long term availability, I think at least the am1808 will be available at least years ;)
Jan 21 18:40:08 <aholler> +5
Jan 21 18:40:59 <mdp> aholler, it ends up some interesting places, yes ;)
Jan 21 18:41:37 <mdp> from the real consumer product stuff but mostly on industrial from what I've seen
Jan 21 18:41:47 <mdp> EV3 is like both
Jan 21 18:42:07 <_av500_> mdp: isnt it in ti calculators now?
Jan 21 18:42:45 <mdp> omap4 is in my android-based calculator
Jan 21 18:42:52 <aholler> the nxt was sold first in 2006.
Jan 21 18:42:53 <mdp> which I hope can run linux some day
Jan 21 18:43:01 <toneeee> mmmmmm.
Jan 21 18:43:26 <mdp> aholler: yeah, they don't operate their platforms like a handset OEM ;)
Jan 21 18:45:57 <aholler> but they had some very short living stuff too, e.g. the cybermaster
Jan 21 18:50:56 <aholler> but it missed such a nice point&click programming ide, so it got fast boring for kids
Jan 21 18:52:19 <Em`Zee> No love
Jan 21 18:52:31 <Em`Zee> Man, I must be totally missing something with Narcissus
Jan 21 18:52:58 <aholler> we can't look inside your system.
Jan 21 18:53:06 <Em`Zee> I wish you could :P
Jan 21 18:53:21 <Em`Zee> So, LCD won't start, and NIC won't get an IP address from DHCP
Jan 21 18:53:22 <aholler> you can't read sd-cards on your pc?
Jan 21 18:53:33 <Em`Zee> My host computer is Windows
Jan 21 18:53:53 <aholler> get a linux-live-cd or -stick
Jan 21 18:54:19 <Em`Zee> sigh. let's see here.
Jan 21 18:54:43 * Em`Zee turns around and chucks a bowling ball over the cube wall to hit his boss in the head for declaring this office a "NO LINUX ZONE"
Jan 21 18:54:56 <aholler> there is also expore2fs or something like that to read extN on windows
Jan 21 19:00:03 <_av500_> there are VMs too
Jan 21 19:00:08 <_av500_> its 2013 after all
Jan 21 19:00:14 <_av500_> we survived the end of the world
Jan 21 19:00:15 <Em`Zee> Yeah, that's what I'm doing
Jan 21 19:00:28 <_av500_> we should get a serial connection going
Jan 21 19:02:19 <jsabeaudry> Is there a board file for beaglebone in 3.8 or does it use board-omap3beagle.c ?
Jan 21 19:02:29 <aholler> but accessing an sd-card on widows from inside an vm might be challenging
Jan 21 19:02:58 <jsabeaudry> aholler, it's pretty straight forward on virtualbox and vmware player
Jan 21 19:03:09 <jkridner> beaglebone uses the am335x evm board file if it is there, otherwise just uses DT.
Jan 21 19:03:17 <_av500_> jsabeaudry: isnt it all DT and not more board files?
Jan 21 19:03:25 <_av500_> -t
Jan 21 19:03:59 <jkridner> jsabeaudry: ah, you said 3.8. that is just DT.
Jan 21 19:04:06 <jsabeaudry> Just DT then, because there is not am335xevm anymore
Jan 21 19:04:07 <aholler> jsabeaudry: ah, I haven't used a vm in wonderland for many years. last time I did usb-support was mostly non-existent
Jan 21 19:05:56 <jsabeaudry> Is there a patch to fix the restart hook for beaglebone?
Jan 21 19:06:46 <_av500_> aholler: not everybody here is that old? ;)
Jan 21 19:08:35 <aholler> yes, and I tend to forget that stuff on windows evolves too ;)
Jan 21 19:10:09 <aholler> (besides exploits)
Jan 21 19:12:14 <Em`Zee> aholler; I can do it :)
Jan 21 19:12:24 <Em`Zee> and yeah, I remember what aholler is talking about
Jan 21 19:12:36 <Em`Zee> I remember the old days, before virtualization was respectably usable :P
Jan 21 19:22:30 <koen> jkridner: http://savanne.be/articles/deploying-node-js-with-systemd/
Jan 21 19:23:06 <_av500_> it all comes together nicely
Jan 21 19:23:27 <_av500_> two rockstar paradigms combined
Jan 21 19:23:37 <alan_o> systemd: badass rockstar tech?
Jan 21 19:24:23 <_av500_> lets call it hipster rockstar tech
Jan 21 19:24:30 <KotH> would some troll be so kind and give me one usecase where node.js is the right tool to use?
Jan 21 19:24:51 * KotH has tried to find one, but was unsuccessfull so far
Jan 21 19:25:05 <_av500_> werft ihn zu poden!
Jan 21 19:25:12 <KotH> ^^;
Jan 21 19:25:31 <KotH> aber ich bin doch kein pöhser pube!
Jan 21 19:26:45 <emeb> you germans and your crazy moon-man lingo
Jan 21 19:27:02 <ka6sox> arthropods?
Jan 21 19:27:15 <KotH> emeb: that's actualyl a monthy python reference :)
Jan 21 19:27:39 <emeb> I understand Monty Python is funniest when performed in the original german.
Jan 21 19:27:42 <ka6sox> anyone know of a inline IRC translator/
Jan 21 19:28:10 <KotH> ka6sox: if there is one, let me know.. i'll start speak swiss german then :)
Jan 21 19:28:27 <_av500_> emeb: +1
Jan 21 19:28:37 <agmlego> KotH: There used to be a mIRC script.
Jan 21 19:28:43 <agmlego> But no one uses mIRC anymore.
Jan 21 19:28:46 <_av500_> dm8tbr: ^^^ dont you have that?
Jan 21 19:28:54 <Em`Zee> agmlego; ...
Jan 21 19:28:55 <KotH> agmlego: mirc did never exist
Jan 21 19:28:56 * Em`Zee hides
Jan 21 19:29:00 <agmlego> Proabably could whip something up pretty quick for irssi though--those scripts are Perl.
Jan 21 19:29:10 <agmlego> Er, ka6sox
Jan 21 19:29:18 <Em`Zee> I use mIRC, but that's mostly because I don't care enough to find a different windows IRC client that's not X-Chat
Jan 21 19:29:51 <aholler> ust use a real os, make everything easier ;)
Jan 21 19:29:52 <Em`Zee> (that supports Japanese input and doesn't look like crap)
Jan 21 19:30:10 <Em`Zee> aholler; *shakes head*
Jan 21 19:30:30 <Em`Zee> To be fair, I have 2 linux machines; a netbook running backtrack and a workstation running Gentoo
Jan 21 19:30:36 <Em`Zee> Just not at work
Jan 21 19:30:56 <agmlego> This is what putty + screen + irssi is for.
Jan 21 19:30:57 <agmlego> ;-P
Jan 21 19:31:20 <aholler> I wonder how EE
Jan 21 19:31:23 <Em`Zee> Also I like the fact that I can really easily hit two keys and type out 日本語
Jan 21 19:31:24 <XorA> ERC for work for the win :-D
Jan 21 19:31:43 <aholler> I wonder how EEs can still use windows since drivers have to be signed
Jan 21 19:31:51 <Em`Zee> Everyone at work keeps telling me I'll have control over the IT policy
Jan 21 19:32:01 <Em`Zee> ... whenever we actually have time to make an IT infrastructure
Jan 21 19:32:03 <XorA> aholler: there is no such requirement
Jan 21 19:32:15 <agmlego> aholler: You can turn that off.
Jan 21 19:32:26 <agmlego> XorA: On Windows 8 by default there is.
Jan 21 19:32:43 <aholler> if you turn it off you such an ugly watermark and something doesn't work
Jan 21 19:32:50 <XorA> agmlego: by default for 7 also, but its not a requirement, it can be changed
Jan 21 19:32:53 <Em`Zee> Windows 8, buuuuhhhhh
Jan 21 19:32:54 <agmlego> Not in my experience.
Jan 21 19:33:17 * agmlego runs all manner of unsigned drivers with no watermarking and no issues.
Jan 21 19:33:23 <KotH> aholler: a lot of EEs still use xp :)
Jan 21 19:33:28 * agmlego works at an industrial automation house.
Jan 21 19:33:33 <aholler> agmlego: win32 then
Jan 21 19:33:37 * Em`Zee works at a software company
Jan 21 19:33:47 <Em`Zee> that doesn't understand Linux *bangs head against wall*
Jan 21 19:33:48 <Em`Zee> :P
Jan 21 19:34:01 * _av500_ works at a french company
Jan 21 19:34:04 <KotH> aholler: though it has been declining since the release of win7
Jan 21 19:34:22 <agmlego> aholler: Win7 64-bit Professional, standard loadout on every machine we own.
Jan 21 19:34:48 <KotH> Em`Zee: actually, that's pretty normal
Jan 21 19:34:56 <Em`Zee> =/
Jan 21 19:35:01 <XorA> my comapny is standardised on Win7, Fedora and CentOS :-D
Jan 21 19:35:03 * Em`Zee loses 1% more faith in humanity
Jan 21 19:35:12 <KotH> Em`Zee: i know people who have been using linux for more than 5 years, but still need an ubuntuized desktop to get around
Jan 21 19:35:21 <XorA> of course that is only 4 machines :-D
Jan 21 19:35:22 <Em`Zee> *that* is sad
Jan 21 19:35:30 <KotH> Em`Zee: managing stuff like packages or even lvm is beyond their grasp
Jan 21 19:35:37 <Em`Zee> The first program I open when my Linux desktop is Terminal
Jan 21 19:35:37 <Em`Zee> :P
Jan 21 19:35:44 <aholler> agmlego: win7 64 without the need for signed drivers and no watermark? sounds like you have some good win-hackers
Jan 21 19:35:45 <Em`Zee> *is booted, is Terminal
Jan 21 19:35:47 <dm8tbr> _av500_: I did. but google abandoned the translation IP, so it doesn't work
Jan 21 19:35:49 <Em`Zee> I forgot how to grammar
Jan 21 19:35:59 <agmlego> aholler: No, pretty muchy works out of the box.
Jan 21 19:36:10 <Em`Zee> I'm with aholler here
Jan 21 19:37:01 <dm8tbr> s/IP/API/
Jan 21 19:37:05 <KotH> Em`Zee: the two people who are actually responsible for the IT at our company are overwhelmed by the way how i use linux (like 10 desktop, each with at least a dozen terminal windows) and have troubles with focus follows mouse... sad thing, one of them has been using unix while i was still shitting my pants
Jan 21 19:37:28 <KotH> Em`Zee: you can probably guess why i'm responsible for the day-to-day IT stuff these days :)
Jan 21 19:37:32 <Em`Zee> Haha
Jan 21 19:37:36 <Em`Zee> Yeah, definitely
Jan 21 19:37:40 <Em`Zee> Alright, I've gotta run
Jan 21 19:37:48 <Em`Zee> I'll attack this Narcissus thing again tomorrow
Jan 21 19:38:13 <XorA> KotH: you obviously need a 4x4 stack of vt100s
Jan 21 19:38:47 <KotH> XorA: vt220 please.. i need some graphics from time to time :)
Jan 21 19:38:47 <emeb> with slightly mis-calibrated pincushion distortion.
Jan 21 19:39:04 <XorA> KotH: depends how big a beard the other guy has though :-D
Jan 21 19:39:34 <KotH> XorA: iirc he's 45 or so
Jan 21 19:39:43 <emeb> Ancient!
Jan 21 19:39:59 * emeb looks around furtively
Jan 21 19:41:34 <ka6sox> a wall of ADM3a's
Jan 21 19:42:26 * djlewis tossed my last xterm
Jan 21 19:44:27 <mranostay> dj_pi: four more years?
Jan 21 19:44:31 <mranostay> er djlewis
Jan 21 19:47:08 <alan_o> mranostay: starting... now
Jan 21 19:47:13 * alan_o starts watch
Jan 21 19:47:32 <mranostay> till we elect another great choice? :)
Jan 21 19:47:55 <mranostay> we are a streak for the last 200 years :)
Jan 21 19:48:21 <alan_o> hey, I'm just the timekeeper here
Jan 21 19:48:34 <alan_o> I have no political opinions whatsoever
Jan 21 19:48:50 <mranostay> right
Jan 21 19:49:11 <mranostay> obama does make international travel easier
Jan 21 19:49:27 <alan_o> How was that? passport somesuch?
Jan 21 19:49:59 <mranostay> alan_o: no i don't have to go through "about that guy you have in office" all the time
Jan 21 19:52:21 <_av500_> lol
Jan 21 19:52:38 <XorA> somewhere else in the world actually cares?
Jan 21 19:52:40 <_av500_> alan_o: and last time I met you, you had pololitical opinions
Jan 21 19:53:10 <emeb> horses/mallets, or shirts?
Jan 21 19:53:19 <XorA> koen for president!!!!
Jan 21 19:53:44 <mranostay> i know for sure koen's birth cert isn't US :)
Jan 21 19:53:48 <emeb> XorA: aim high - God Emperor.
Jan 21 19:54:18 <XorA> thats prpplague's job, woudlnt want to take that!
Jan 21 19:54:49 <XorA> mranostay: it has always been expectation you guys would change that rule to allow Arnie in :-D
Jan 21 19:55:22 <emeb> lol - that was actually referenced in the movie "Demolition Man"
Jan 21 19:55:25 <mranostay> XorA: god no
Jan 21 19:55:36 <XorA> emeb: Judge Dredd as well
Jan 21 19:55:38 <mranostay> and yes i remember
Jan 21 19:55:49 <mranostay> Taco Bell is the only place to eat too
Jan 21 19:55:57 <emeb> XorA: didn't know that.
Jan 21 19:56:09 <XorA> emeb: the comics that is, dont think it was mentioned in the movie
Jan 21 19:56:30 <prpplague> XorA: jeeze, do i really come across like that
Jan 21 19:56:33 <prpplague> XorA: ??
Jan 21 19:56:46 <dj_pi> mranostay, looks like it
Jan 21 19:56:49 <emeb> XorA: Ah - that's why. I've only seen the movie (execrable).
Jan 21 19:57:11 <emeb> Demolition Man however is an underappreciated classic...
Jan 21 19:57:41 <XorA> Demo Man was awesome
Jan 21 19:57:53 <XorA> especially his workaround to the 3 shells issue
Jan 21 19:58:09 <emeb> lol - and I liked that they never explained the 3 shells.
Jan 21 19:58:34 <XorA> prpplague: Benevolant dictator to further mankind to its full potential?
Jan 21 19:58:58 <XorA> prpplague: eventually leading to full integration of man and machine!
Jan 21 20:00:53 <alan_o> XorA: isnt' that what DT is for?
Jan 21 20:01:56 <mranostay> DT is badass rockstar tech
Jan 21 20:02:53 <XorA> DT is what happens when you take too much spice
Jan 21 20:03:12 <mranostay> heh go for the real stuff?
Jan 21 20:03:39 <mranostay> that prop almost passed last time.. almost
Jan 21 20:05:06 <mdp> note to self: two machines on the same subnet with same IP breaks important tools like netflix
Jan 21 20:05:14 <_av500_> minor issue
Jan 21 20:05:30 <mdp> the natives were beating down my office door
Jan 21 20:05:34 <mranostay> heh
Jan 21 20:05:38 <mdp> "critical point in the movie!"
Jan 21 20:05:44 <jsabeaudry> Is this a patch that I could apply on my 3.8 to fix the "reboot" command not working? https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/1662621/
Jan 21 20:05:46 <mdp> IT sux ;)
Jan 21 20:06:01 <mranostay> we don't need any stinking reboot
Jan 21 20:06:03 <jsabeaudry> From the date it's pretty old but does not seem to be in koen's tree
Jan 21 20:06:58 <mdp> mranostay, I implemented "reboot" by doing "~$reboot" in conmux and it tells my power control to cycle the bone ;)
Jan 21 20:07:09 <mranostay> hehe
Jan 21 20:07:16 <mranostay> haven't used conmux in awhile
Jan 21 20:07:26 <mdp> mranostay, kirk would be proud of how I reprogrammed the test
Jan 21 20:07:46 <mranostay> i use the  bdi to reset my bone
Jan 21 20:08:06 <mdp> expensive relay ;)
Jan 21 20:08:09 <mdp> but yeah, been there
Jan 21 20:08:14 <alan_o> I press the button
Jan 21 20:08:32 <alan_o> I need an intern to press the button for me when I type "reboot"
Jan 21 20:08:42 <mdp> alan_o, my fingers don't leave the kbd for mundane tasks like that ;)
Jan 21 20:08:46 <mranostay> talk to bradfa
Jan 21 20:08:47 <alan_o> maybe some robotics on gpio for it.
Jan 21 20:09:00 <mranostay> i can be a intern but i'm not cheap :P
Jan 21 20:09:01 <mdp> bah
Jan 21 20:09:12 * bradfa scrolls back
Jan 21 20:09:22 <koen> jsabeaudry: Failed to merge in the changes.
Jan 21 20:09:23 <koen> Patch failed at 0001 ARM: OMAP2+: am33xx: Add PRM warm reset/reboot support
Jan 21 20:09:32 <koen> jsabeaudry: that's why
Jan 21 20:09:39 <mranostay> alan_o: simple relay and a little soldering?
Jan 21 20:09:45 <mdp> $89 power controller will handle all your boards...except poor designs like our am335x-evmsk...it's designed for uselessness
Jan 21 20:10:12 <mranostay> mdp: heh need to press a button?
Jan 21 20:10:13 <alan_o> mranostay: I need a servo to push the button too
Jan 21 20:10:35 <mranostay> why push? use a relay
Jan 21 20:10:37 <_av500_> koen is building a 16 servo massive rebootbot
Jan 21 20:10:40 <mdp> mranostay: yeah, unbelievably stupid board design :(
Jan 21 20:10:41 * bradfa 's new intern is pretty good, would probably turn down button pushing intership
Jan 21 20:10:44 <alan_o> mranostay: that involves taking my button off
Jan 21 20:10:55 <alan_o> mranostay: far too lazy for that
Jan 21 20:11:04 <mranostay> alan_o: this is a family channel
Jan 21 20:11:14 <mdp> bradfa, that's probably because IT increased your disk space, and you still haven't notice the huge git repos he's making full of binaries
Jan 21 20:11:17 <mranostay> put your button back on
Jan 21 20:11:21 <koen> _av500_: once DPD arrives tomorrow a 32 channel one
Jan 21 20:11:26 <_av500_> omg
Jan 21 20:11:27 <jsabeaudry> koen, do you think the patch looks acceptable, I can probably rebase it if you think the content look decent
Jan 21 20:11:38 <_av500_> koen: you can reboot half the netherlands
Jan 21 20:11:41 <mdp> mranostay, wait until he loosens his tie
Jan 21 20:11:42 <_av500_> +of
Jan 21 20:11:43 <koen> jsabeaudry: I'd take it if it actually applied and worked
Jan 21 20:11:58 <koen> jsabeaudry: it currently fails on at least one of the 2 criteria :)
Jan 21 20:12:36 <jsabeaudry> koen, I'll give it a spin see if it works
Jan 21 20:16:27 <koen> thanks!
Jan 21 20:16:29 <ka6sox> koen, so this is latest?
Jan 21 20:16:31 <ka6sox> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap.git
Jan 21 20:16:38 <koen> ka6sox: no
Jan 21 20:17:15 <ka6sox> okay...at least it has the GPMC patches against rc3
Jan 21 20:17:41 <bradfa> mdp, possibly!
Jan 21 20:18:07 * mranostay goes to walk around MV... too nice out for IRC :)
Jan 21 20:18:13 <mdp> bradfa, solution: hire another intern to monitor the situation.
Jan 21 20:18:18 <koen> ka6sox: it's safer to track linus'
Jan 21 20:18:27 <bradfa> mdp, advice taken!
Jan 21 20:18:29 <koen> ka6sox: or if you want something working, track https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/
Jan 21 20:19:01 <ka6sox> ya, that "works" but doesn't have what I need so let me track Linus'
Jan 21 20:22:17 <koen> ka6sox: https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel/ tracks linus' tree, so I don't get why you don't use that
Jan 21 20:23:52 <ka6sox> let me look to see if the patches for gpmc on 335x are there.
Jan 21 20:25:57 <koen> ka6sox: if not, you can add them and send a pull-request
Jan 21 20:26:04 <koen> that way everyobody wins
Jan 21 20:26:13 <mdp> koen, tracking linus could result in drowning if you follow him too closely
Jan 21 20:26:20 <aholler> mdp: use lego to do that mundane task
Jan 21 20:26:52 <ka6sox> koen, will do :D
Jan 21 20:27:17 <mdp> aholler: I was thinking of having my junior roboticist slave labor create a button pushing robot for me
Jan 21 20:27:25 <mdp> my "intern" ;)
Jan 21 20:28:07 <agmlego> What am I doing?
Jan 21 20:29:26 <thweber> i look for a build system for beaglebone. is angstrom the only one?
Jan 21 20:29:57 <XorA> thweber: the best one!
Jan 21 20:31:49 <thweber> i use ptxdist, normally
Jan 21 20:33:17 <florian> try oe :)
Jan 21 20:35:05 <mrpackethead_> try debian
Jan 21 20:35:48 <mrpackethead_> there are more opinions on O/S for beagle than people offering them.
Jan 21 20:35:57 <mrpackethead_> some woudl say try ubuntu
Jan 21 20:36:20 <florian> try everything but ptxdist or buildroot ;)
Jan 21 20:37:29 <mrpackethead_> i even heard rumors of "beaglian".. like raspbian for PI i guess.
Jan 21 20:37:50 <thweber> i only want to build a qt application
Jan 21 20:37:59 <woglinde> thweber and?
Jan 21 20:38:15 <thweber> i think debian is to much
Jan 21 20:38:24 <woglinde> too much for what?
Jan 21 20:41:44 <florian> it really depends on many details... e.g. fast booting is easier to achieve using oe
Jan 21 20:44:24 <thweber> woglinde: small flash size, maintaining, fast booting, single application
Jan 21 20:45:24 <woglinde> bone has no flash
Jan 21 20:46:29 <XorA> grr, why doesnt android have a single working terminal emulator :-(
Jan 21 20:46:51 <thweber> woglinde: i also have evm and starterkit
Jan 21 20:47:24 <florian> XorA: you have not worked with storage media in android so far, right? ;)
Jan 21 20:47:32 <thweber> and product will have flash
Jan 21 20:47:49 <XorA> florian: only sounds and power
Jan 21 20:48:39 <florian> XorA: its a good start to get used to pain ;-)
Jan 21 20:49:34 <crashovrd> i like the idea of a debian based beagle distro
Jan 21 20:50:01 <mrpackethead_> question for the gurus.
Jan 21 20:50:05 <crashovrd> sometimes you just wanna try different things out before settling on what you will use for production
Jan 21 20:50:08 <mrpackethead_> is there a RTC on the beagle?
Jan 21 20:50:11 <crashovrd> and apt-get makes that easy
Jan 21 20:50:15 <crashovrd> without all the ubuntu bloat
Jan 21 20:50:29 <mrpackethead_> im using debian, and it works well for me
Jan 21 20:50:41 <jsabeaudry> Is the am3358 more a omap2xxx or a omap3xxx ?
Jan 21 20:50:42 <_av500_> woglinde: http://blog.zeit.de/ost/2013/01/20/pankower-regierung-verbietet-bie-dees/
Jan 21 20:51:16 <agmlego> jsabeaudry: Neither.
Jan 21 20:51:18 <woglinde> ah yes fefe
Jan 21 20:51:47 <agmlego> mrpackethead_: Which beagle? The xM has one, but it is disabled by default.
Jan 21 20:51:58 <mrpackethead_> the beaglebone
Jan 21 20:52:30 <agmlego> Looks like it has one, but no support for a battery.
Jan 21 20:52:38 <agmlego> The xM has contacts for a battery.
Jan 21 20:53:15 <XorA> prpplague: will sell you an RTC
Jan 21 20:54:24 <agmlego> If you really need an RTC, it is easy enough to strap one onto one of the SPI, I2C, or UART lines on the 'bone.
Jan 21 20:54:32 <mrpackethead_> yeah.
Jan 21 20:54:36 <mrpackethead_> i think i'll have to do that
Jan 21 20:54:44 <agmlego> Well, an RTC with a battery.
Jan 21 20:54:56 <agmlego> If the device is always powered, the onboard RTC should be fine.
Jan 21 20:55:19 <mrpackethead_> can't always guarrentee its always going to be up
Jan 21 20:55:35 <mrpackethead_> and it wont' be network connected at boot time.
Jan 21 20:55:35 <agmlego> Then you probably want an external, battery-backed RTC.
Jan 21 20:55:47 <mrpackethead_> or a gps
Jan 21 20:55:47 <mrpackethead_> :-)
Jan 21 20:56:00 <agmlego> GPS takes a bit to grab time data.
Jan 21 20:56:07 <mrpackethead_> yes.
Jan 21 20:56:25 <agmlego> And, unless you can tie the PPS signal into gpsd to feed ntpd, not really that useful a timesource.
Jan 21 20:56:55 <agmlego> The RTC would be used by ntpd natively if you get one with a module already built (or build one yourself).
Jan 21 20:57:05 <aholler> http://ahsoftware.de/usb-rtc/
Jan 21 21:02:56 <mrpackethead_> mmm
Jan 21 21:05:07 <aholler> kernel 3.9 will have a driver for an hid-usb-rtc
Jan 21 21:07:38 <agmlego> aholler: Is the RTC using USB in a deterministic enough way to allow ntpd to compensate for the jitter?
Jan 21 21:08:38 <alan_o> aholler: So your site makes it sound like you didn't get it into the kernel
Jan 21 21:08:43 <alan_o> what changed?
Jan 21 21:08:55 <alan_o> s/didn't/weren't interested/
Jan 21 21:09:21 <aholler> what I describe there is using i2c-tiny-usb
Jan 21 21:09:49 <aholler> I"ve discovered the hid-sensor-std only aftrwards
Jan 21 21:10:56 <aholler> agmlego: it only offers seconds, not really useful with ntpd
Jan 21 21:11:19 <alan_o> aholler: i2c-tiny-usb.patch is what the people on the mailing list didn't like?
Jan 21 21:11:20 <agmlego> aholler: Ah, fair enough.
Jan 21 21:11:39 <ds2> *yawn*
Jan 21 21:11:56 <alan_o> must be nice to be on the ds2 schedule :)
Jan 21 21:11:56 <ds2> hid-sensor-std?
Jan 21 21:11:57 <aholler> alan_o: yes
Jan 21 21:12:19 <ds2> aholler: you have applications involving that abomination?
Jan 21 21:12:45 <ds2> AZ is damn cold
Jan 21 21:12:49 <aholler> ds2: works for as rtc
Jan 21 21:13:12 <ds2> aholler: ah... not the other stuff then?
Jan 21 21:13:55 <aholler> I"m using the hid-sensor-driver for that
Jan 21 21:14:15 <ds2> I know but the hid-sensor stuff does a lot of other things
Jan 21 21:14:17 <aholler> haven"t tested the other stuff
Jan 21 21:14:36 <ds2> it is on the order of transporting a single backpack in a 20ton dumptruck
Jan 21 21:14:51 <ds2> aholler: is that mainlined now?
Jan 21 21:14:51 <ds2> ;
Jan 21 21:15:10 <aholler> zhe kernel includes drivers for adc, magnometer and some more
Jan 21 21:15:32 <aholler> 3.7 includes hid-sensor
Jan 21 21:15:41 <ds2> oohh I see
Jan 21 21:15:47 <aholler> but the driver only knows usb
Jan 21 21:15:52 <ds2> was backporting that to 2.6.32 a few months ago
Jan 21 21:16:02 <ds2> yes, I am familiar with thestructure
Jan 21 21:16:22 <ds2> the magnometer driver it provides is horrible
Jan 21 21:17:05 <alan_o> aholler: reading through the email threads on lkml now....
Jan 21 21:17:42 <ds2> and depending on implementation of the USB device, it can trigger a bug in the Linux USB stack
Jan 21 21:18:13 <alan_o> aholler: I guess I'm a bit bothered by the language on your site about how anyone who wants to get code into the kernel should just give up and put a link to a patch on their blog
Jan 21 21:18:22 <mdp> aholler, I like, "timeless universe"
Jan 21 21:19:01 <aholler> alan_o: I was bthered
Jan 21 21:19:02 <alan_o> your opening salvo here: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/11/13/622  isn't really the right way to win friends and influence people in the kernel community.
Jan 21 21:19:03 <aholler> too
Jan 21 21:19:59 <aholler> alan_o: I was already greeted before with such an "No, no, no"
Jan 21 21:20:10 <alan_o> I know, I'm reading the thread
Jan 21 21:20:57 <aholler> ended up with tons of kids wanting to tell me how to use git
Jan 21 21:21:39 <alan_o> kernel people aren't always on social protocols designed to keep people from getting offended. When there are technical reasons and strong opinions, they just say it. "no no no" isn't something that you should be offended by on lkml.
Jan 21 21:21:49 <mdp> alan_o, I've got no problem with it...people are constantly wrong on lkml
Jan 21 21:22:10 <crashovrd> kernel devs are not world renowned for their 'people skills'
Jan 21 21:22:22 <ds2> people skills are overrated
Jan 21 21:22:34 <ds2> stable kernels seems to be underappreciated
Jan 21 21:23:03 <mrpackethead_> ds2: not here!!!
Jan 21 21:23:19 <mrpackethead_> if the kernel is not stable, its all downhill
Jan 21 21:23:26 <mranostay> people suck film at 11
Jan 21 21:23:28 <mdp> alan_o, I was offered a suggestion that I just copy a bunch of SG buffers into a linear buffer to solve a problem with the the dmaengine api. now think about that one...imagine linearizing SG buffers using the cpu in order to pass to a dma controller.
Jan 21 21:23:30 <ds2> tell that to everyone else
Jan 21 21:23:43 <emeb> unstable kernels for ski resorts!
Jan 21 21:24:07 <mrpackethead_> so, if i got it right, teh beaglebone has a RTC onboard, but its not battery backed up
Jan 21 21:24:09 <mrpackethead_> is that right?
Jan 21 21:24:10 <ds2> emeb: did everyone's thermostat break last week and got stuck on cool? :D
Jan 21 21:24:12 <aholler> alan_o: the page will disappear if I will find the time to change it to hid, so don"t worry.
Jan 21 21:24:26 <emeb> ds2: it was chilly here.
Jan 21 21:24:39 <emeb> now it's warmer than usual
Jan 21 21:25:00 <crashovrd> its global warming. al gore was right. we should have listened
Jan 21 21:25:06 <ds2> emeb: you could've made ice cubes outside last week!
Jan 21 21:25:18 <Russ> I'm confused, what's wrong with instantiating from userspace?
Jan 21 21:25:29 <emeb> ds2: went hiking up in N. Phx and actually found ice on a creek.
Jan 21 21:25:34 <alan_o> mdp: sure, no doubt people are wrong sometimes, but showing up with a patch, getting told "that's not what we do, and we used to do it, and we removed it because of X" doesn't mean that the people who told you that are jerks or difficult to work with or wrong. Sure the one guy didn't read the patch. He didn't have to. He read the description of what it did.
Jan 21 21:25:38 <alan_o> I don't really see a problem.
Jan 21 21:26:05 <ds2> emeb: heh... even south Phx was ice cold
Jan 21 21:26:16 <ds2> only thing colder was flagstaff
Jan 21 21:26:19 <mdp> alan_o, right, same issue..people don't read an knee-jerk
Jan 21 21:26:23 <mdp> s/an/and
Jan 21 21:26:31 <emeb> ds2: you were here?
Jan 21 21:26:42 <crashovrd> do what i do: there is always some young eager dev out there looking to make a name for himself. so i send my kernel patches through them
Jan 21 21:26:44 <alan_o> Alan Cox offered a suggestion, and the response was "waste of time." That's not going to win friends either.
Jan 21 21:26:46 <ds2> emeb: yes
Jan 21 21:26:57 <mdp> alan_o, plus everything has already been done, and there can be no new things. :)
Jan 21 21:27:03 <crashovrd> and thereby 'delegate' the politics and flames
Jan 21 21:27:05 <emeb> ds2: take the LR?
Jan 21 21:27:09 <alan_o> mdp: maybe
Jan 21 21:27:13 <ds2> emeb: yep
Jan 21 21:27:26 <Russ> also 'because pi' usually isn't helpful
Jan 21 21:27:28 <ds2> emeb: nothing remarkable... typical LR
Jan 21 21:27:39 <emeb> ds2: unsurprising is good.
Jan 21 21:27:41 <mdp> alan_o, well, alan cox has a lot of bad ideas...everybody does regardless of how long they've been around ;) .e.g his SFI idea in response to capebus/dtoverlays
Jan 21 21:27:50 <ds2> fork the kernel!!!!! :)
Jan 21 21:28:11 <ds2> emeb: the whole validation scheme was a bit confusing
Jan 21 21:28:17 <alan_o> mdp: Maybe mu luck will run out, but I've not had problems getting stuff in. I also haven't made anything earth shattering. Sometimes people disagree with me, and I try to come up with rational arguments that illustrate my side of it
Jan 21 21:28:24 <emeb> ds2: I've heard that from others too.
Jan 21 21:28:34 <alan_o> mdp: actually, I did have trouble getting something in one time... and that guy was wrong too :)
Jan 21 21:28:34 <mdp> Russ, if it was "because google uses it" then that would be valid though
Jan 21 21:28:44 <ds2> emeb: the lightrail ticket was playing peek-a-boo on the bus
Jan 21 21:28:55 <alan_o> mdp: but I didn't use the words "waste of time" to try to convince him
Jan 21 21:29:22 <koen> mdp: I mentioned SFI to intel engineers and they responded "Oh god no! Not that!!"
Jan 21 21:29:43 <mdp> alan_o, I'm actually in a slightly annoying situation now wrt dma_get_channel_caps(), but it's just part of the game
Jan 21 21:29:44 <_av500_> SFI as in?
Jan 21 21:30:11 <mdp> it's very hard to get a maintainer to grok a piece of h/w that is different in some esoteric way to anything they designed for
Jan 21 21:31:02 <_av500_> why not pass the current time on the kernel command line?
Jan 21 21:31:14 <_av500_> DT=device time
Jan 21 21:31:21 <alan_o> _av500_: have u-boot read the time, pass it in
Jan 21 21:31:22 <mdp> it's hard to believe that DT can't help here
Jan 21 21:31:32 <_av500_> alan_o: yep
Jan 21 21:31:47 <_av500_> I mean, all uboot needs to do is modify the DT to have the current time
Jan 21 21:31:50 <mdp> yeah, this ugly stuff needs to be in the bootloader
Jan 21 21:31:51 <alan_o> see, that's how we keep cruft out of the kernel. Shove it into u-boot :)
Jan 21 21:31:56 <mdp> +1!
Jan 21 21:32:40 <_av500_> we dont even know how long the concpet of time will be in the kernel at all
Jan 21 21:32:48 <_av500_> so why bother
Jan 21 21:32:59 <_av500_> a quantum state kernel does not need it
Jan 21 21:33:16 <mrpackethead_> srry folks, i did'nt mean to start a argument
Jan 21 21:33:19 <mdp> I need one of those
Jan 21 21:33:20 <alan_o> mdp: Maybe I'm all wet on this one, but I guess my point is that maintainers have to be spoken to respectfully if you want them to listen, but you won't always get it in return. Maybe it's not good, but that's just the way it is.
Jan 21 21:33:30 <_av500_> yep
Jan 21 21:33:44 <mdp> alan_o, that's my approach ;)
Jan 21 21:33:46 <aholler> alan_o: sorry, but the whole discussion was about some few stupid lines which would have add a parameter to a module almost no one uses.
Jan 21 21:34:20 <_av500_> i was surprised this druver was in the kernel at all
Jan 21 21:34:22 <_av500_> driver
Jan 21 21:35:03 <mrpackethead_> is it acceptable just to put soething like a DS1307 on the buss ( or its 3.3V equivalent ).. poll it, get the time, and set system tiem from there
Jan 21 21:35:07 <mdp> alan_o, i2c subsystem is like the ARM of the driver subsystems...always been crap
Jan 21 21:35:09 <mrpackethead_> and not do it in the kernal at all?
Jan 21 21:35:25 <_av500_> mrpackethead_: aholler argues that it is too late
Jan 21 21:35:42 <mrpackethead_> _av500_: too late for?
Jan 21 21:35:47 * XorA remembers the days you couldnt send platform data to i2c
Jan 21 21:35:58 <mdp> XorA: yep
Jan 21 21:36:04 <_av500_> mrpackethead_: well, how do you e.g. do a regular fs check if you dont have the time
Jan 21 21:36:26 <_av500_> dunno
Jan 21 21:36:27 <jsabeaudry> koen (and others who want to reboot bbone from command line): here is something that works here, let me know if it works for you http://pastebin.ca/2305540
Jan 21 21:36:30 <_av500_> well, that user space
Jan 21 21:36:32 <_av500_> bad example
Jan 21 21:36:45 <mrpackethead_> maybe i should keep my beagle constantly powered up
Jan 21 21:37:03 <mrpackethead_> but thats an ugly option
Jan 21 21:37:59 <mrpackethead_> google finds many references to registring TRC's to the kernel
Jan 21 21:38:38 <mdp> XorA: there was the time when they though they could probe smbus/i2c busses safely ;) it was x86 driven and difficult for people to imagine something not like pci
Jan 21 21:38:59 <jsabeaudry> Hard to believe I am not strictly a leech anymore and can contribute something back
Jan 21 21:39:39 <XorA> mdp: yeah I remember when they were only allowed in late boot which screwed pretty much all embedded boards
Jan 21 21:39:46 <jsabeaudry> In my wildest dreams av500 will troll me less because of that
Jan 21 21:39:53 <XorA> mdp: wasnt there like half a billion hack i2c drivers in the tree in those days?
Jan 21 21:39:55 <alan_o> aholler: I know what the discussion was about, and I see where you're coming from and what you were trying to accomplish. the responses were "we don't do it that way; we do it this other way." ultimately the maintainers are responsible for the design and architecture, and if you want to change their minds about it, ultimately the burden is on you to explain why your ideas are superior, not on them to tell you why they think their ideas a
Jan 21 21:39:55 <alan_o> re better. I think it just takes looking at it from the right perspective, and their perspective is the one that counts.
Jan 21 21:40:30 <mdp> XorA: yes, it was pretty awful..blacklists etc. and then ordering issue in conjunction with a complex v4l driver were difficult, at best, to resolve
Jan 21 21:40:30 <aholler> it doesn"t count
Jan 21 21:40:45 <mdp> XorA: I'm going to have to admit that it is better now ;)
Jan 21 21:40:54 <alan_o> aholler: personally, I kind of like the idea of putting that stuff on the command line optionally, but I haven't spent much time thinking about the cons of that.
Jan 21 21:41:08 <XorA> mdp: it is, but I think people get confused and think its a hotplug bus :-(
Jan 21 21:41:09 <_av500_> jsabeaudry: troll you?
Jan 21 21:41:31 <_av500_> i2c lacks plug&play features
Jan 21 21:41:58 <aholler> alan_o: I didn"t have a problem to add that parameter only to i2c-tiny-usb.
Jan 21 21:42:01 <crashovrd> oh! lets write a patch to add plug&play
Jan 21 21:42:03 <alan_o> _av500_: I'm still waiting for pnp on my serial port to be implemented :)
Jan 21 21:42:04 <XorA> _av500_: the standard lacks plugs for a start :-D
Jan 21 21:42:11 <mdp> XorA: funny thing, I was helping debug a u-boot i2c issue and found that it was using an unsafe method to probe as of 6 months ago or so..that's now fixed upstream
Jan 21 21:42:23 <mdp> XorA: so the legacy of this stuff is still around places
Jan 21 21:42:26 <alan_o> aholler: different maintainer?
Jan 21 21:42:40 <_av500_> remember, its only I2C if you paid Philips
Jan 21 21:42:51 <_av500_> otherwise its twowire:)
Jan 21 21:43:20 <mdp> XorA: some guy implemented a probe method where he started a write cycle but terminated it before it was complete...trying to use some omap i2c quirk...bad idea.
Jan 21 21:43:36 * XorA shudders
Jan 21 21:43:42 <aholler> alan_o: with no problem I mean I"ve accepted it not be a param for th whole subsystem
Jan 21 21:43:55 <XorA> i2c is bad enough with chips that are meant to be in HiZ mode answering
Jan 21 21:44:06 <aholler> hmm, connectbot drives me crazy here
Jan 21 21:44:07 <_av500_> aholler: I do get your point
Jan 21 21:44:13 <Russ> aholler, I still don't see the problem with doing it in userspace
Jan 21 21:44:20 <_av500_> aholler: but still I dont think your tone was appropriate
Jan 21 21:44:23 <_av500_> my 2c
Jan 21 21:44:32 <alan_o> mdp: people should be required to test on two architectures before submitting :)
Jan 21 21:44:51 <mdp> XorA: http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/160389/ is where Tom reverted it after our debug session
Jan 21 21:45:05 <mdp> alan_o, well this was specific to omap i2c detect in u-boot
Jan 21 21:45:08 <_av500_> alan_o: you mean on iphone and ipad?
Jan 21 21:45:14 <alan_o> yeah
Jan 21 21:45:16 <mdp> failed completely on a different rev of the IP
Jan 21 21:45:40 <aholler> _av500_: as said, that "No, no, no" has brought up some very bad experiences I"ve made on lkml
Jan 21 21:46:37 <_av500_> aholler: still, keep it professional
Jan 21 21:46:43 <Russ> aholler, being very familiar with the i2c subsystem for a number of years, I'm totally on board with the 'no, no, on'
Jan 21 21:46:50 <Russ> er, no, no, no
Jan 21 21:47:15 <aholler> _av500_: I don"t have too. I"m a human
Jan 21 21:47:16 <crashovrd> he is already having flash backs
Jan 21 21:47:22 <crashovrd> probably should change the subject
Jan 21 21:47:24 <crashovrd> ;)
Jan 21 21:47:58 <thurbad> not totally cool to call someone out and correct them publicly either...
Jan 21 21:48:31 <_av500_> hmm, mdp does DT allow to specify i2c devices on a bus?
Jan 21 21:48:42 <Russ> yes
Jan 21 21:49:17 <Russ> lets not go and embed all the logic of DT into the kernel command line
Jan 21 21:49:18 <Russ> please
Jan 21 21:49:58 <aholler> anyway, I"m now up to the point where I don"t care about patches for the kernel. at least not if nobody pays me to do so.
Jan 21 21:49:59 <_av500_> where do I put my lua interpreter then?
Jan 21 21:50:12 <Russ> _av500_, staging?
Jan 21 21:50:29 <_av500_> the problem with DT is that it is not turing complete
Jan 21 21:51:00 <Russ> I'm aware of a government project that involved turing complete xml
Jan 21 21:51:16 <_av500_> and therefore we cannot implement sed in DT
Jan 21 21:51:20 <_av500_> and thus no tetris in sed
Jan 21 21:51:40 <_av500_> hmm, /dev/tetris
Jan 21 21:51:55 <alan_o> _av500_: /dev/emacs?
Jan 21 21:51:56 <crashovrd> lua interpreter goes in u-boot of course
Jan 21 21:52:10 <crashovrd> which would be humorous, if it didnt remind me of EFI
Jan 21 21:52:13 <crashovrd> :(
Jan 21 21:52:36 <crashovrd> i forgot that i should not joke about things on irc
Jan 21 21:52:41 <crashovrd> because someone turns them into product
Jan 21 21:53:47 <mdp> _av500_, there's an exception...if you need platform data...only properties that describe _hw_ attributes are permitted in DT...except in limited exception cases such as linux keycodes (a sw attribute)
Jan 21 21:54:45 <_av500_> mdp: is that a yes?
Jan 21 21:54:59 <mdp> it depends
Jan 21 21:55:07 <_av500_> I mean, if I have a hw i2c and an RTC there
Jan 21 21:55:11 <_av500_> that should be in DT, no?
Jan 21 21:55:20 <_av500_> like its in the board file today
Jan 21 21:55:26 <mdp> yes
Jan 21 21:55:30 <_av500_> now, if the i2c is via usb
Jan 21 21:55:34 <_av500_> whta chnages?
Jan 21 21:55:44 <mdp> only the usb host controller is defined
Jan 21 21:56:07 <aholler> you can"t enumerate i2c-buses on usb because you can"t identify them
Jan 21 21:56:12 <_av500_> right
Jan 21 21:56:19 <mdp> not sure how they handle that in DT yet
Jan 21 21:56:23 <_av500_> host controller finds the device
Jan 21 21:56:31 <_av500_> and surprise its i2c
Jan 21 21:56:34 <mdp> there's tons of DT gaps
Jan 21 21:56:41 <_av500_> but
Jan 21 21:56:47 <_av500_> in a lot of use cases, usb is all fixed
Jan 21 21:56:53 <_av500_> like a usb touchscreen
Jan 21 21:56:56 <_av500_> or a modem
Jan 21 21:57:08 <aholler> with serials you have the problem too
Jan 21 21:57:12 <_av500_> yes
Jan 21 21:57:32 <aholler> therefor people always asking here which tty
Jan 21 21:57:42 <alan_o> I think the right way to do it would be to have a non-i2c-tiny interface to the RTC
Jan 21 21:57:57 <alan_o> an actual vid/pid with a protocol and a driver for the RTC
Jan 21 21:58:08 <alan_o> hide all the RTC behind the USB device
Jan 21 21:58:08 <_av500_> alan_o: not the point
Jan 21 21:58:14 <_av500_> imagine you have a usb modem
Jan 21 21:58:18 <_av500_> and that has free gpios
Jan 21 21:58:27 <_av500_> and one of them is something you need early at boot
Jan 21 21:58:39 <_av500_> so you want to bind that gpio to that usb early
Jan 21 21:58:41 <_av500_> and use it
Jan 21 21:58:54 <alan_o> yes, that's a hard use case
Jan 21 21:58:54 <_av500_> similar use case
Jan 21 21:58:55 <alan_o> no doubt
Jan 21 21:59:05 <_av500_> you hw designer says: deal with it
Jan 21 21:59:16 <_av500_> you cant tell him to wire it differently
Jan 21 21:59:32 <alan_o> well, then he is wrong
Jan 21 21:59:36 <alan_o> usb is not a platform bus
Jan 21 21:59:45 <_av500_> little does he care
Jan 21 21:59:48 <_av500_> been there, done that
Jan 21 22:00:01 <_av500_> oh btw, the HW is already there :)
Jan 21 22:00:09 <mdp> let's make this simple and admit that _av500_ is correct, the hw guy always wins
Jan 21 22:00:09 <_av500_> your move
Jan 21 22:00:12 <mdp> and you all know it
Jan 21 22:00:25 <alan_o> yes, management, hardware guys, etc.
Jan 21 22:00:38 <_av500_> we once had wifi and a touchscreen on SPI
Jan 21 22:00:39 <alan_o> There will always be reasons to have to do stuff sub-optimally
Jan 21 22:00:47 <_av500_> tohcing the screen blocked the wifi data
Jan 21 22:00:52 <_av500_> while the chip was measuring
Jan 21 22:01:17 <_av500_> because the chip could not measure and then IRQ
Jan 21 22:01:22 <alan_o> but you have /CSn, what do you mean there's a conflict?
Jan 21 22:01:23 <_av500_> it had to have CE
Jan 21 22:01:34 <_av500_> as I wrote
Jan 21 22:01:37 <_av500_> same spi lines
Jan 21 22:01:45 * alan_o trolling
Jan 21 22:01:53 <alan_o> yes, I know what you mean
Jan 21 22:02:47 <alan_o> well clearly the touch screen has to have priority over the wifi anyway. every UX ninja knows that.
Jan 21 22:03:41 <_av500_> :)
Jan 21 22:04:10 <woglinde> gn
Jan 21 22:04:22 <_av500_> woglinde: gn
Jan 21 22:05:10 <jsabeaudry> talking of i2c, i2c-3 in 3.2 is i2c-1 in 3.8 ?!
Jan 21 22:05:24 <alan_o> whoa whoa whoa.... more words, less numbers, thanks
Jan 21 22:06:08 <_av500_> arf TI
Jan 21 22:06:14 <_av500_> sample order rejected
Jan 21 22:06:53 <_av500_> telling to order the production device and not the protyoe
Jan 21 22:07:28 <_av500_> now if I knew my pwd...
Jan 21 22:07:30 <ka6sox> av500, which device?
Jan 21 22:07:38 <_av500_> cc30000
Jan 21 22:07:46 <_av500_> that wifi thang
Jan 21 22:07:53 <_av500_> internet of thangs
Jan 21 22:08:02 <_av500_> cc3000
Jan 21 22:09:49 <crashovrd> u guys are still thinking about adding lua to u-boot, arent u
Jan 21 22:09:52 <crashovrd> :P
Jan 21 22:10:01 <_av500_> I want to add lua to something, yes :)
Jan 21 22:10:17 <aholler> I would prefer lua inside the kernel
Jan 21 22:10:20 <_av500_> thouhg in-kernel node-js is tempting too
Jan 21 22:11:19 <aholler> a lua-module would be great
Jan 21 22:11:44 <_av500_> you need the bindings
Jan 21 22:11:51 <_av500_> by itself, what would it do
Jan 21 22:11:55 <aholler> for stuff you always wanted to do without userspace
Jan 21 22:12:03 <_av500_> yes
Jan 21 22:12:03 <aholler> dt is there
Jan 21 22:12:09 <_av500_> not enough
Jan 21 22:12:15 <_av500_> you want networking, no?
Jan 21 22:12:41 <aholler> sure, using the sys-calls would be nice
Jan 21 22:12:51 <aholler> and maybe more
Jan 21 22:13:46 <_av500_> you could write systemd in lua in the kernel
Jan 21 22:17:17 <ynezz> there's Lua in netbsd
Jan 21 22:18:01 <ynezz> https://fosdem.org/2013/schedule/event/lua_in_the_netbsd_kernel/
Jan 21 22:19:46 <aholler> Mabye google will write a mini graphics lib for the kernel, I've just suggested such ;)
Jan 21 22:20:14 <aholler> would be nice to use with lua
Jan 21 22:20:38 <aholler> ;)
Jan 21 22:20:38 * Russ backs away slowly
Jan 21 22:21:58 <mrpackethead_> so, looks like i need to crate "forgotten-cape"
Jan 21 22:22:28 <mrpackethead_> ie, a board of usefulness, things that could have been included on the base, but were forgotten
Jan 21 22:22:31 <mrpackethead_> like a real time clock
Jan 21 22:22:33 <mrpackethead_> :-(
Jan 21 22:22:46 <aholler> Russ: such isn't that absurd. Do you've seen one the new bios with mouse support?
Jan 21 22:23:26 <ynezz> mrpackethead_: I miss geiger counter and 1W FM trasmitter
Jan 21 22:23:47 <Russ> I've seen boot loader gui on-top of linux kernel stuff
Jan 21 22:23:52 <Russ> it then uses kexec to boot
Jan 21 22:23:59 <Russ> all the graphical stuff runs in user-pace
Jan 21 22:24:02 <Russ> er, userspace
Jan 21 22:24:03 <ynezz> just use e-lua
Jan 21 22:24:06 <ynezz> :)
Jan 21 22:24:24 <aholler> Russ: yes, but userspace needs a lot of space
Jan 21 22:24:29 <Russ> no it doesn't
Jan 21 22:24:43 <Russ> stuff in the kernel is not magically smaller
Jan 21 22:24:49 <aholler> depens how you define space
Jan 21 22:25:09 <aholler> it is, you don't a libc
Jan 21 22:25:10 <Russ> userspace can be as simple as int main(void) { while(1); return 0; }
Jan 21 22:26:27 <aholler> if you have only 4mb for bootloader + kernel + fonts + pictures, there isn't much space left for userspace
Jan 21 22:27:13 <mrpackethead_> silly question aholler...   As my system sits now, it boots up, does an NTP call, sets sytem time and goes on its merry way...  How is that any differnet from the system booting up; getting time from an RTC, and setting sytem time..   Both happen quite late in the peace and it seems to work..  I;m just struggling to understand why it has to be done in the kernel.
Jan 21 22:27:15 <ynezz> 4MB? even with web UI
Jan 21 22:27:15 <Russ> putting the same code into the kernel isn't going to make it smaller
Jan 21 22:27:54 <aholler> mrpackethead_: you want the time before you touch the fs
Jan 21 22:28:06 <Russ> aholler, then root=rlo
Jan 21 22:28:09 <Russ> er, root=ro
Jan 21 22:28:15 <Russ> then you can get your time, then remount rw
Jan 21 22:28:23 <Russ> it's not rocket science
Jan 21 22:28:34 <aholler> tell this all those init systems
Jan 21 22:28:43 <Russ> I have
Jan 21 22:29:00 <Russ> if you are in dire straights and hate initrds, and you hate dealing with init systems
Jan 21 22:29:01 <aholler> they are all designed to have the time when the get active
Jan 21 22:29:02 <Russ> init=/linuxrc
Jan 21 22:29:15 <Russ> then in linuxrc you do the stuff you need to do, then exec /sbin/init
Jan 21 22:29:45 <aholler> I now how to do that, but I just don't want to try to explain such world + dog
Jan 21 22:29:55 <aholler> that's impossible
Jan 21 22:30:06 <Russ> and what init systems care about the time before calling rc.boot?
Jan 21 22:30:40 <aholler> none, the rtc is almost always statically linked and the system has the time before userspace
Jan 21 22:31:05 <aholler> thats how pc's are working.
Jan 21 22:31:15 <_av500_> Russ: as said, there might be other use cases
Jan 21 22:31:28 <Russ> _av500_, root on i2c?
Jan 21 22:31:34 <_av500_> root?
Jan 21 22:31:37 <_av500_> :)
Jan 21 22:31:37 <_av500_> yes
Jan 21 22:31:47 <aholler> hid on i2c ;)
Jan 21 22:31:59 <_av500_> as I saimd gpio pins on USB
Jan 21 22:32:02 <aholler> I wonder who want use that
Jan 21 22:32:03 <_av500_> said
Jan 21 22:32:04 <Russ> well hid you can configure from userspace
Jan 21 22:32:09 <_av500_> yes
Jan 21 22:32:30 <aholler> Russ: we can configure most stuff. But normal people not
Jan 21 22:33:06 <aholler> tell someone to fiddle with the init-system to load a module with a parameter before the fs gets fscked and r/w
Jan 21 22:33:19 <Russ> aholler, ok
Jan 21 22:33:21 <Russ> I will
Jan 21 22:33:46 <aholler> and do that for all init-systems around
Jan 21 22:34:20 <aholler> and all that just because someone doesn't want a stupid parameter in a stupid module
Jan 21 22:34:20 <mru> aholler: what do you mean all? there is only systemd
Jan 21 22:34:22 <Russ> I see...and your solution is a universal fix for all non-probable rtc's on all systems then?
Jan 21 22:34:52 <ds2> install a proper RTC.
Jan 21 22:34:59 * _av500_ goes to bed
Jan 21 22:35:08 * _av500_ hopes RTC will wake him up
Jan 21 22:35:10 <Russ> it seems to me the problem is non-probable rtcs and/or systems that don't have time at boot
Jan 21 22:35:18 <Russ> and its a problem that has already been solved
Jan 21 22:35:39 <aholler> write a tutorial for people with bones
Jan 21 22:35:50 * _av500_ is spineless
Jan 21 22:35:58 <Russ> exact steps?
Jan 21 22:36:50 <aholler> I don't care, I've tried to become a dozens stupid lines into a stupid module and was handled like a kid.
Jan 21 22:37:05 <aholler> that's it for me and I enter my bed too
Jan 21 22:37:09 <Russ> because you are special casing a solution for a problem no one has
Jan 21 22:37:25 <mrpackethead_> Russ: i'm very interested in what you are suggesting
Jan 21 22:37:34 <aholler> Russ: like every module parameter out there
Jan 21 22:37:39 <aholler> no one needs them
Jan 21 22:37:44 <Russ> http://learn.adafruit.com/adding-a-real-time-clock-to-raspberry-pi/set-rtc-time
Jan 21 22:38:12 <Russ> aholler, if I extended your argument, we'd have DT within the kernel command line
Jan 21 22:38:14 <aholler> thats a hardwired rtc
Jan 21 22:38:41 <aholler> just do it better
Jan 21 22:38:44 <aholler> n8
Jan 21 22:38:46 <mrpackethead_> Russ, that looks like a very workable solution
Jan 21 22:39:02 <aholler> I did with the hid-usb-rtc ;)
Jan 21 22:39:03 <ds2> if you want time, put in a proper RTC.
Jan 21 22:39:06 <ds2> enough said.
Jan 21 22:39:07 <Russ> mrpackethead_, it just needs in earlier in the boot process for aholler's needs, but that isn't a difficult modification
Jan 21 22:39:32 <mrpackethead_> Russ: i'm booting most of my file system as RO anyway..
Jan 21 22:39:37 <XorA> RTC read in initrd cant be that hard!
Jan 21 22:39:45 <mrpackethead_> so, that it is less likely to get fried..
Jan 21 22:39:59 <Russ> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Initscripts
Jan 21 22:40:04 <mrpackethead_> there will just be some space so some user-files can get written to
Jan 21 22:40:09 <mrpackethead_> and then we probalby can make that ro as well.
Jan 21 22:41:10 <aholler> Russ: see, the point is that mrpackethead_ had to ask how to do such.
Jan 21 22:41:12 <Russ> mrpackethead_, with sysvinit, /etc/rc.sysinit is early enough
Jan 21 22:41:26 <aholler> and it's not only he who needs to ask such
Jan 21 22:41:32 <Russ> mrpackethead_, if you are using sysvinit, take a look at your /etc/rc.sysinit
Jan 21 22:41:42 <_av500_> Russ: sudo nano /etc/rc.local
Jan 21 22:41:47 <_av500_> where is that in systemd?
Jan 21 22:41:49 <_av500_> :)
Jan 21 22:41:58 <Russ> rc.local is too late
Jan 21 22:42:30 <_av500_> tool ate indeed, must sleep
Jan 21 22:42:32 <_av500_> :)
Jan 21 22:42:34 <_av500_> too late
Jan 21 22:42:34 <mrpackethead_> its all commented out;
Jan 21 22:42:37 <ds2> why do you need the time that early on?
Jan 21 22:42:39 <mrpackethead_> last line says it all
Jan 21 22:42:45 <mrpackethead_> # By default this script does nothing.
Jan 21 22:42:48 <Russ> ds2, you want sane time before you fsck
Jan 21 22:43:01 <ds2> Russ: use a journaling FS
Jan 21 22:43:21 <Russ> mrpackethead_, is that rc.sysinit or rc.local
Jan 21 22:43:34 <mrpackethead_> rc.local
Jan 21 22:43:42 <Russ> mrpackethead_, look at rc.sysinit
Jan 21 22:43:54 <aholler> gentoo doesn't have them ;)
Jan 21 22:43:59 <aholler> you have to extend your list
Jan 21 22:44:07 <mrpackethead_> nor does debian
Jan 21 22:44:11 <Russ> might be /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit
Jan 21 22:44:13 <_av500_> nor Lacie
Jan 21 22:44:41 <_av500_> put it in the MBR
Jan 21 22:44:45 <_av500_> :)
Jan 21 22:45:08 <jsabeaudry> Anything special to do when switching to DT regarding interrupts? Somehow the interrupt used in my module do not seem to work anymore
Jan 21 22:45:19 <mrpackethead_> serached for it
Jan 21 22:45:22 <mrpackethead_> it doesnt exisit
Jan 21 22:45:23 <aholler> the only thing all distros have in common is a kernel ;)
Jan 21 22:45:45 <Russ> mrpackethead_, then anything before /etc/rcS.d/S05hwclock.sh is probably ok
Jan 21 22:45:46 <jsabeaudry> The irq gets registered fine but somehow never gets called
Jan 21 22:46:23 <Russ> S05hwclock.sh comes before S06checkroot.sh
Jan 21 22:46:54 <ds2> is there a reason you need to use a FS that require fscking?
Jan 21 22:47:23 <Russ> ds2, even for a journalled fs, its still good to fsck after a powerloss
Jan 21 22:47:34 <Russ> especially if you are only journalling metadata
Jan 21 22:47:54 <mru> well, xfs doesn't even have an fsck tool
Jan 21 22:48:14 <Russ> mru always has an answer!
Jan 21 22:48:18 <ds2> Russ: if that is indeed the case, then where is the yaffs2 or jffs2 fsck ?
Jan 21 22:48:33 <Russ> ds2, ok, I suppose I only mean ext4
Jan 21 22:48:42 <mru> not that I'd recommend using xfs where there's a high risk of power loss
Jan 21 22:49:03 <ds2> so use a proper FS
Jan 21 22:49:07 <aholler> does btrfs now has a fsck?
Jan 21 22:49:12 <ds2> not modify the kernel to solve a problem that has been solved elsewhere
Jan 21 22:50:03 <Russ> ...or just make an /etc/rcS.d/S04rtc.sh
Jan 21 22:51:03 <ds2> look at the case where people get time out of NTP
Jan 21 22:51:17 <mru> numbered scripts are so primitive
Jan 21 22:51:35 <ds2> userland is so primative
Jan 21 22:51:41 <Russ> mru, I know, lead us into systemd pastures, will you?
Jan 21 22:52:05 <mru> there are other options, you know
Jan 21 22:52:25 <Russ> brimfire and upstart?
Jan 21 22:52:32 <mru> and openrc
Jan 21 22:52:54 <ds2> whatever happened to the days of simpleinit
Jan 21 22:53:01 <mru> and in some cases, nothing at all is the most appropriate
Jan 21 22:54:29 <aholler> http://ahsoftware.de/dockstar/#gentoopatches
Jan 21 22:54:50 <aholler> is what I had to fiddle on gentoo some years ago
Jan 21 22:55:19 <mru> gentoo uses openrc since some time
Jan 21 22:55:20 <aholler> without there was the possiblity that it asked for a key press when a fsck was scheduled and the time was wrong
Jan 21 22:55:22 <Russ> you like to do things the hard way
Jan 21 22:55:29 <aholler> s/there/that/
Jan 21 22:55:44 <Russ> you could have a) changed the default fsck options
Jan 21 22:56:07 <Russ> b) inserted your own rc.S script
Jan 21 22:56:53 <aholler> Russ: that just explains that you don't know the system and so you would be unable to write a tutorial usable by everyone
Jan 21 22:57:44 <aholler> gentoo has had hardcoded the stuff in early init
Jan 21 22:57:57 <mru> not any more
Jan 21 22:58:16 <Russ> I like your you problem with suggested solutions are always 'not general enough'
Jan 21 22:58:33 <Russ> when your solution is very specific in itself
Jan 21 22:58:36 <aholler> You nailed me down on trhat
Jan 21 22:58:58 <aholler> I've suggest a simple solution with a around a dozen line for a stupid module
Jan 21 22:59:02 <Russ> I'm sorry that gentoo has a broken init system
Jan 21 22:59:11 <mru> but it doesn't!
Jan 21 22:59:12 <Russ> does that mean we need a kernel patch?
Jan 21 22:59:16 <aholler> Russ: do it better
Jan 21 22:59:20 <crashovrd> why not just make faux driver that does what ever is needed to set the clock?
Jan 21 22:59:28 <Russ> aholler, /etc/rcS.d/S04rtc.sh
Jan 21 22:59:29 <Russ> done
Jan 21 22:59:43 <aholler> always complaining doesn't help, at least I had a solution for the gentoo system at that time
Jan 21 23:00:03 <Russ> or just add -y to your fsck options
Jan 21 23:00:25 <aholler> do it so
Jan 21 23:01:07 <Russ> right, I'll get right on solving everyone's individual little problem with a patch to a different module with a different set of kernel command line options
Jan 21 23:01:38 <mrpackethead_> Russ, is my logic bad here..   My system currnetly survives unscheduled powerdowns.. you start it up, it gets time via ntp, and things start up with the right time again.
Jan 21 23:01:40 <aholler> yes, you are trained by ti
Jan 21 23:01:45 <aholler> no faults there
Jan 21 23:01:48 <aholler> sorry,
Jan 21 23:02:04 <mrpackethead_> so if i can just swap ntp, for getting time from the RTC, its probalby going to work
Jan 21 23:02:06 <mrpackethead_> ?
Jan 21 23:02:16 <Russ> mrpackethead_, its one of those things that if you are running hundreds or thousands of systems, it might matter
Jan 21 23:02:47 <mrpackethead_> hundreds or thousands of systems that need to talk to each other?
Jan 21 23:02:55 <mrpackethead_> or just hundreds or thousands of systems in generall
Jan 21 23:03:19 <Russ> no, I mean if you have thousands of systems that lose power at random times, you are likely to eventually have a problem that needs correction with fsck
Jan 21 23:03:31 <Russ> or at least fsck could tell you that the system isn't going to boot all the way
Jan 21 23:03:55 <mrpackethead_> worst case then is that we can swap the SDcard out to a new one
Jan 21 23:04:01 <ds2> use a more robust fs
Jan 21 23:04:05 <ds2> fsck is not an answer
Jan 21 23:04:08 <aholler> just wrong. fsck is scheduled every n days when you use extN
Jan 21 23:04:15 <aholler> so you hit another trap
Jan 21 23:04:16 <Russ> ds2, can't always control the reaction of the sd card to a power cut
Jan 21 23:04:30 <Russ> aholler, do you even know what schedules that fsck?
Jan 21 23:04:32 <mrpackethead_> we will always have a copy of the system, ready..
Jan 21 23:04:35 <Russ> aholler, or where it's configured
Jan 21 23:04:41 <aholler> Russ: no, I'm dumb
Jan 21 23:04:45 <ds2> Russ: use a FS that is indifferent to that or use a media that you can control
Jan 21 23:04:48 <aholler> And never used linux
Jan 21 23:05:16 <aholler> and want to modifiy a dozens startup scripts to get the time and avoid fsck and ...
Jan 21 23:05:28 <Russ> aholler, just one startup script
Jan 21 23:05:59 <ds2> or a better way is to rework your startup sequence
Jan 21 23:06:27 <Russ> ds2, no, a kernel patch is the only way
Jan 21 23:06:31 <Russ> its always the only way
Jan 21 23:06:33 <ds2> :)
Jan 21 23:07:45 <crashovrd> well, i guess we should start forking the kernel now
Jan 21 23:08:03 <crashovrd> its the only way
Jan 21 23:08:06 <crashovrd> :)
Jan 21 23:08:21 <Russ> how could I possibly configured boot time fsck
Jan 21 23:08:23 <Russ> https://93fd9190-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/sophieinnorthkorea/home/cartoon.4.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cpeK3KkptHyVDBc3nSHp7o2BuPVtUoENIRIovEWlBJZN4-OAqwp_64O6LI71jxR8KORXKNzRG4YwC0QHed8AT8xYAldjrNzTrRrFE1WMcriIeawXYk6jzA8xPSyZOkZnoQSwiHaJMZXCX4OByoz8fC_xTgdwE5HtaFH_QfzezjzZPOnn_EFnQlprqUZzcxnQEh3xkvKuJzZX1TsaVAbcw3Sote4MR8hke7xGKQJN6xG4Qn1iVQ%3D&attredirects=0
Jan 21 23:08:31 <Russ> if only there was some way of looking that up
Jan 21 23:08:39 <Russ> (sorry for the extremely long url)
Jan 21 23:08:54 <ds2> the web is a WORN media - Write One, Read Never.
Jan 21 23:09:52 <mrpackethead_> Russ, that adafruit board, looks like a sensible thing
Jan 21 23:10:36 <Russ> its a solution that works, but it really should go before S05hwclock.sh
Jan 21 23:19:23 <aholler> Russ: you should write a simple and clear tutorial for beaglebone users so that no questions are left. Should be easy for you to do.
Jan 21 23:19:51 <Russ> aholler, yes, it's called read some documentation
Jan 21 23:20:04 <Russ> init systems are currently very fragmented
Jan 21 23:20:37 <Russ> I remember back when shells were very fragmented
Jan 21 23:21:52 <aholler> funny I thought everyone used sh back in the old days
Jan 21 23:22:48 <aholler> and just now people are starting to use dash, bash, sh, ash, zsh, …
Jan 21 23:22:53 <ds2> sh????
Jan 21 23:22:57 <ds2> tcsh!!
Jan 21 23:23:23 <mrpackethead_> aholler: people like you and Russ, are better left to doing constructive stuff
Jan 21 23:23:31 <Russ> bash didn't have an initial release until '89
Jan 21 23:23:57 <mrpackethead_> mere mortals like me are better at writing docs for us normal folks, who are just users.
Jan 21 23:25:08 <crashovrd> the OS design is actually older than most who use it
Jan 21 23:25:24 <crashovrd> it actually old enough to be the dad of some!
Jan 21 23:26:08 <aholler> dos didn't know about shells, it just had command.com ;)
Jan 21 23:26:24 <aholler> and nc
Jan 21 23:26:31 <XorA> mv doom.exe command.com
Jan 21 23:26:32 <Russ> the '90s were a crazy time, with lots of different shells running everywhere
Jan 21 23:26:33 <XorA> sorted
Jan 21 23:27:07 <aholler> still the same
Jan 21 23:27:44 <aholler> try to use echo -n or -e on a default debian
Jan 21 23:30:22 <Crofton|work> rofl, I renamed vax game to edt back in the day
Jan 21 23:30:23 <ds2> dos has shells
Jan 21 23:30:27 <ds2> 4dos for example
Jan 21 23:31:03 <aholler> that was very late
Jan 21 23:32:06 <Russ> aholler, and the sad thing is true of init systems, you can give someone general instructions, but they have to understand or read about their own init
Jan 21 23:32:24 <Russ> exact steps require exact knowledge of ones configuration
Jan 21 23:32:44 <aholler> or a simple kernel parameter
Jan 21 23:32:52 <aholler> s/kernel/module/
Jan 21 23:33:59 <Russ> aholler, but I have a different i2c module, your patch doesn't work
Jan 21 23:34:10 <aholler> it did
Jan 21 23:34:31 <Russ> my i2c clock is bitbanged via gpio, not usb-tiny-i2c
Jan 21 23:34:44 <aholler> the first patch has had documentation how to add it to your module
Jan 21 23:34:59 <Russ> and also, if your probe address 0x28 (the address of my rtc) on i2c-4, it'll reboot my board
Jan 21 23:35:08 <aholler> rejected with "No, no, no"
Jan 21 23:35:27 <Russ> oh, wait, I forgot, my rtc is connected via 1wire
Jan 21 23:35:32 <Russ> can your patch help me?
Jan 21 23:35:51 <aholler> yes, it brings peace and love to everyone
Jan 21 23:37:49 <aholler> like all those documented parameters in Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt, not speak about all the undocumented ones
Jan 21 23:38:05 <ds2> they are all documented
Jan 21 23:38:10 <aholler> no
Jan 21 23:38:20 <Russ> name one that isn't documented
Jan 21 23:38:22 <aholler> for luke, maybe
Jan 21 23:38:29 <Russ> exactly, use the source
Jan 21 23:38:37 <aholler> look at tiny-i2c ;)
Jan 21 23:39:09 <aholler> everyone should be able to read source
Jan 21 23:39:13 <Russ> I did, your patch rightly deserves a 'no, no, no'
Jan 21 23:39:14 <aholler> and english manuals
Jan 21 23:39:25 <Russ> I'm sorry that offends your sensibilities
Jan 21 23:39:50 <aholler> I don't care
Jan 21 23:39:54 <aholler> anymore
Jan 21 23:40:24 <Russ> ok :)
Jan 21 23:40:53 <aholler> I'll just forward questions to manufacturers ;)
Jan 21 23:41:41 <Russ> or you know, develop a boot time script for probing rtc devices, and submit that patch
Jan 21 23:42:08 <aholler> yeah, for dozens of distros
Jan 21 23:42:10 <Russ> let people muck with a /etc/default/rtc-hw or some such
Jan 21 23:42:20 <Russ> such is life
Jan 21 23:42:26 <aholler> your life, maybe
Jan 21 23:42:33 <aholler> I just write a simple patch
Jan 21 23:42:56 <aholler> and avoid usb on some devices
Jan 21 23:43:04 <Russ> you'll find it very difficult to make kernel developers believe it is the kernel's job to work around init system fragmentation
Jan 21 23:43:20 <aholler> yes,they don't care about users
Jan 21 23:43:36 <aholler> I've learned, you don't have to say such twice
Jan 21 23:43:42 <Russ> clearly, or else they would have put emacs in the kernel already
Jan 21 23:43:54 <Russ> and merged systemd into the kernel sources too
Jan 21 23:45:27 <ds2> or just use the init in the kernel already
Jan 21 23:46:05 <Russ> distributions are hard, lets go shopping!
Jan 21 23:52:34 <aholler> yea, buy a working otg ip
Jan 21 23:53:00 <aholler> "no, no, no"
Jan 21 23:53:30 <Russ> I suppose it was the third no that really did it
Jan 22 00:07:04 <mranostay> robclark: nice blast from the past with that 486 chip
Jan 22 00:07:38 <robclark> mranostay, thank NishanthMenon for that one.. he found it somewhere :-P
Jan 22 00:08:35 <mranostay> basement? :)
Jan 22 00:09:16 <robclark> I think somewhere around the office
Jan 22 00:11:04 <mranostay> next to the speak and spell?
Jan 22 00:12:15 <robclark> probably
Jan 22 00:13:44 <crashovrd> and history recorded from this day forth, RTC discussion was forbidden
Jan 22 00:14:33 * mranostay scrolls up
Jan 22 00:15:03 <crashovrd> re: speak n spell - i was convinced that kids were going to learn language from them and an entire generation would grow up talking like them
Jan 22 00:15:33 <toneeee> ai stiLLL do!
Jan 22 00:16:09 <crashovrd> :)
Jan 22 00:16:42 <thurbad> instead we all have tv accents
Jan 22 00:16:50 <mranostay> *whew* taxes done..
Jan 22 00:18:08 <crashovrd> only time will tell if a generation raised with Siri as their only friend will fare the same
Jan 22 00:18:20 <mranostay> never used Siri
Jan 22 00:18:27 <mranostay> I think I have it disabled
Jan 22 00:19:24 <crashovrd> ha! i knew speak n spell was a TI chip
Jan 22 00:19:30 <crashovrd> i couldnt recall which one
Jan 22 00:19:40 <crashovrd> TMS5100
Jan 22 00:20:09 <ka6sox> mranostay, 1040EZ: how much did you make?....Send it IN!
Jan 22 00:20:31 <mranostay> ka6sox: heh i don't make that little :)
Jan 22 00:20:57 <ka6sox> mranostay, you realize you can't quit...
Jan 22 00:21:26 <mranostay> hmm what is the limit on the 1040EZ again?
Jan 22 00:21:42 <Russ> he now praises the iPad!
Jan 22 00:22:10 * mranostay backs away from Russ 
Jan 22 00:22:49 <Russ> mranostay, https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=38538
Jan 22 00:23:34 <mranostay> nice
Jan 22 00:23:54 * mranostay hated his droid phone so much
Jan 22 00:25:32 * mranostay notes his slides reference Soviet too much
Jan 22 00:45:29 <Cykon> Is there anyone on that knows a bit about USB - both gadget/host communication? I have a pretty quick question
Jan 22 00:58:42 <mranostay> ELC schedule is ok
Jan 22 00:58:45 <mranostay> *out
Jan 22 01:04:39 <Russ> thx
Jan 22 01:05:21 <Russ> mranostay, I see you are up early in the schedule
Jan 22 01:05:22 <mranostay> Russ: we'll be heckling your talk
Jan 22 01:05:25 <mranostay> yes :)
Jan 22 01:05:47 <mru> 5pm slot for me
Jan 22 01:06:04 <mru> good, then everybody will be too tired to notice any errors
Jan 22 01:06:14 <robclark> mru, is that the 5pm timeslot at the bar?
Jan 22 01:06:23 <mranostay> hmmm i see a few conflicts
Jan 22 01:06:41 <Russ> Its really the 1:45pm timeslot you want, everyone will be sleeping off their lunch
Jan 22 01:07:18 <mru> last slot of the day everybody will be itching to leave for dinner
Jan 22 01:07:26 <mru> should take their focus off the presentation
Jan 22 01:10:10 <mranostay> mru: i'll be relaying messages to troll you with from _av500_
Jan 22 01:10:58 <mranostay> hmm sure 90% will be in Frank's and Olof's talks :)
Jan 22 01:12:47 <agmlego> .c
Jan 22 01:13:09 <mranostay> ah?
Jan 22 01:13:32 <agmlego> I missed typig /c
Jan 22 01:13:39 <agmlego> For clear screen.
Jan 22 01:14:01 <mranostay> wmat: you are bring beer to the BoF right?
Jan 22 01:15:18 <mranostay> *bringing
Jan 22 01:16:23 <mranostay> have to troll the embedded atom talk
Jan 22 01:20:22 <mranostay> mru: could be worse you could be in panto's timeslot keeping everyone from lunch
Jan 22 01:30:58 <wmat> mranostay: yes, but it will already be in my belly
Jan 22 01:35:09 <mranostay> does LC allow drinking during talks?
Jan 22 01:35:17 <mranostay> or should i pack the flask?
Jan 22 01:37:03 <Russ> mranostay, me too (timeslot)
Jan 22 01:38:26 <Russ> mranostay, 'Host Organization Microsoft'
Jan 22 01:38:56 <mranostay> how did nobody's PRU talk get accepted? too "technical"
Jan 22 01:38:57 <mranostay> ?
Jan 22 01:39:13 <Russ> why is your host organization microsoft?
Jan 22 01:39:28 <toneeee> lol I was going to ask why we don't have a PRU code to mine coin
Jan 22 01:40:05 <mranostay> ah yeah good question
Jan 22 01:40:31 <Russ> http://www.parc55hotel.com/var/plain_site/storage/original/application/0fa36a277e116667f83b9916f01e4316.pdf
Jan 22 01:40:36 <Russ> (map)
Jan 22 01:40:39 <mranostay> why is my tag music?
Jan 22 01:41:03 <Russ> I think you are about to be trolled
Jan 22 01:41:06 <mranostay> Russ: geez it is just me
Jan 22 01:41:34 * mranostay pokes prpplague
Jan 22 01:41:50 <Russ> shh....let it happen
Jan 22 01:43:24 <jkridner> mranostay: cool that you got your telemetry talk on the schedule again.
Jan 22 01:44:30 <jkridner> mru: nice to see you are speaking as well
Jan 22 01:45:57 <mru> jkridner: it's an easy way to get a free trip to SF :)
Jan 22 01:46:07 <mranostay> free confernce pass for me :
Jan 22 01:46:08 <mranostay> :)
Jan 22 01:46:19 <mranostay> less of thing here of course
Jan 22 01:46:59 <ds2> hmmm
Jan 22 01:47:22 <mranostay> ds2: you coming?
Jan 22 01:47:42 <ds2> mranonstay: donno... got to see if there us budget
Jan 22 02:02:00 * mranostay waves to XorA 
Jan 22 02:11:06 <mrpackethead_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/428302_10151369241637661_66993423_n.jpg   <-- electroplate cape
Jan 22 02:11:17 <Crofton|work> mranostay, you are up against an arm-soc tree talk
Jan 22 02:11:31 <mranostay> Crofton|work: yeah i'm sure two people will be in my talk :)
Jan 22 02:11:33 <ka6sox> uh oh...
Jan 22 02:18:34 <mrpackethead_> well, my dhcp scope has got too small
Jan 22 02:18:36 <mrpackethead_> sigh.
Jan 22 02:21:00 <ds2> hmm
Jan 22 02:25:52 <mranostay> ds2: ah yes?
Jan 22 02:40:22 * alan_o reads the course descriptions for ELC
Jan 22 02:40:32 <alan_o> I'm not sure anyone at LF proofread what's actually on the site
Jan 22 02:43:04 <Russ> is it me?
Jan 22 02:43:24 <alan_o> were you the one supposed to proofread it?
Jan 22 02:44:43 <alan_o> looking forward to mranostay's talk. Looks like you're expanding quite a bit
Jan 22 02:45:08 <alan_o> (the topics covered, not just the waistline)
Jan 22 02:49:22 * alan_o twists ds2's arm to come to ELC
Jan 22 02:50:29 <Russ> (I mean were the errors in mine)
Jan 22 02:51:32 <alan_o> Russ: oh, that's what I thought, but did a quick search for your name and didn't see it. I see it now
Jan 22 02:51:35 <alan_o> let me check
Jan 22 02:52:56 <alan_o> looks ok. I saw two with problems (I didn't click all). One has extraneous newlines. The other says "this could be expanded to 2 hours if the committee wants...."
Jan 22 02:58:51 <mranostay> alan_o: did you submit anything?
Jan 22 02:59:35 <alan_o> mranostay: yeah, rejected :(
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 22 02:59:58 2013