**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 28 03:00:00 2013
May 28 03:00:38 <Shadyman> Neat :)
May 28 03:19:28 <mastiff> m_billybob, i got to ./build_kernal.sh and get error: libncurses5-dev not found
May 28 03:19:56 <mastiff> but apt-get install libncurse5-dev says it's installed and up to date
May 28 03:22:56 <ka6sox> mastiff, apt-get install build-essential kernel-package
May 28 03:23:22 <mastiff> trying that...
May 28 03:24:41 <ka6sox> kernel-package usually does the appropriate thing.
May 28 03:26:46 <mastiff> son of a bitch, says it's already the newest version
May 28 03:27:54 <mastiff> maybe libncrses5-dev is in a non standard path??
May 28 03:28:09 <mastiff> one thing to check, other ideas?
May 28 03:37:29 <m_billybob> mastiff thats actually an issue covered in the comment of that wiki
May 28 03:37:59 <m_billybob> sorry writtign code and noticing odd behavior. but probably only odd because im new to the functions im using
May 28 03:38:32 <mastiff> ok, thanks, have been at awhile, might need to sleep hehe
May 28 03:38:42 <m_billybob> you're using ubuntu im assuming
May 28 03:38:51 <mastiff> backtrack5
May 28 03:38:52 <m_billybob> that problem doesnt happen with debian
May 28 03:39:24 <m_billybob> as the cross dev platform i mean, and no dont bother installign debian . . . pretty surethat issue was solved by Robert Nelson
May 28 03:39:37 <m_billybob> in the comments section
May 28 03:39:55 <mastiff> yeah, bt5, and ubuntu and debian are very similar right?
May 28 03:40:08 <m_billybob> know nothign about backtrack5
May 28 03:40:18 <mastiff> stripped down ubuntu
May 28 03:40:22 <m_billybob> but packages between debian and ubuntu can be different
May 28 03:40:34 <mastiff> ok
May 28 03:40:49 <mastiff> I'll check out what the wiki says on the issue
May 28 03:41:04 <m_billybob> well that same page, scroll down to the comments sections
May 28 03:41:22 <m_billybob> click it and theres an issue covering that problem
May 28 03:41:55 <mastiff> 105 comments!!! very nice
May 28 03:42:01 <m_billybob> hehehe
May 28 03:42:25 <mastiff> page seemed d'void of comment
May 28 03:42:59 <m_billybob> So im loading the processor ~75% using usleep() to regulate load, but thing im noticing is that CPY frequencing isnt budging. e.g. its stil at 300Mhz
May 28 03:43:55 <mastiff> do you have a way of directly measuring the current?
May 28 03:44:37 <m_billybob> guess i need to do more reading. but im assuming since the processor is sleeping 100 cycles out of every 10240 cycles, the processor is sensing its still not loaded hard.
May 28 03:44:50 <m_billybob> mastiff, I dont think so
May 28 03:45:07 <m_billybob> there are ways
May 28 03:45:17 <m_billybob> not sureif what i need is on the CPU though
May 28 03:45:31 <m_billybob> or on board
May 28 03:46:42 <mastiff> Probably easiest to use another board to measure power consumption of the board to be measured.\
May 28 03:47:22 <m_billybob> there are what ? 8 channels ADC ? but for testign current id have to be checking voltages across a shunt somewhere on the CPU voltage "tap"
May 28 03:47:52 <m_billybob> or maybe theres a simplier way i need to read more
May 28 03:48:02 <mastiff> Are you talking about measuring total power consumption of the board at various operating states?
May 28 03:49:02 <m_billybob> just processsor current usage, as ive said 100 times im not an EE but have a vague idea of how to measure current consumption
May 28 03:49:09 <mastiff> You can measure invidual circuits in the BBB or the entire board.
May 28 03:49:33 <m_billybob> i need to read teh TRM
May 28 03:49:36 <m_billybob> fully
May 28 03:50:02 <mastiff> Cool, yeah sounds like you know more software and I studied more physics but lacking on the linux skills hehe
May 28 03:50:09 <m_billybob> right now im just trying to get a consistant load
May 28 03:50:22 <mastiff> for powering what?
May 28 03:50:34 <mastiff> how many volts and amps do you want?
May 28 03:50:52 <m_billybob> just loading the processor at a certain % for testing
May 28 03:51:09 <m_billybob> kind of a cheap stres test
May 28 03:51:15 <m_billybob> adjustable stress test
May 28 03:51:45 <mranostay> ka6sox: you have the worse desk setup of anyone here :P
May 28 03:52:23 <mastiff> that's a little trickier but you just have to cut the Vcc and ground into  the processor and splice in a variable power spply
May 28 03:52:36 <mastiff> what do you mean desk setup?
May 28 03:52:51 <mastiff> this is day 2 for me on IRC......
May 28 03:54:32 <mastiff> some boards have test points but, i know nothing about digital testing
May 28 03:54:38 <mastiff> next on the list to learn
May 28 03:55:14 <m_billybob> maybe something liek this -> http://forum.43oh.com/topic/2896-post-a-pic-of-your-home-work-bench-get-a/?p=29161
May 28 03:56:48 <mastiff> look like a nice under a mountain hardened bunker
May 28 03:57:02 <m_billybob> lol
May 28 03:57:20 <m_billybob> thats part of the inside of a 100x80' steel building
May 28 03:57:37 <mastiff> my install is in a 30ft sailboat
May 28 03:57:44 <m_billybob> ?
May 28 03:57:45 <mastiff> 40ft antennae ; )
May 28 03:58:38 <mastiff> arduinos running sensors and stove fuel pump, etc
May 28 03:58:51 <mastiff> looking to do more stuff with BBB
May 28 03:59:04 <mastiff> especially radio
May 28 04:01:17 <m_billybob> do you have a solar / wind setup on that boat ?
May 28 04:02:28 <mastiff> solar panels with stainles steel manual tracking brackets,  for 120W of power
May 28 04:02:52 <m_billybob> cool
May 28 04:02:55 <mastiff> also thermoelectric and steam that runs off the diesel stove I use for cooking and heating
May 28 04:02:58 <m_billybob> we're completely off grid here
May 28 04:03:10 <mastiff> that's !!!
May 28 04:03:37 <m_billybob> now we finally have all our panels up we're peak at ~6kW solar
May 28 04:03:55 <m_billybob> 2100aH battery bank @ 12v nominal
May 28 04:04:19 <m_billybob> thing about boats thats cool though is that there is always wind blowing, so good potential for wind power
May 28 04:04:50 <mastiff> Sounds like around 20 batteries and 600 sq ft of panel ???
May 28 04:05:10 <mastiff> Yeah wind is our transportation
May 28 04:05:23 <mastiff> it can be noisy spinning a turbine, especially at harbor
May 28 04:05:48 <m_billybob> hmm dont ctually know the dimensions, but roughly 5-6' long 2' wide panels, 22 of those and a bunch of older arco panels
May 28 04:06:10 <m_billybob> the arco panels are aroudn 25 years old
May 28 04:06:17 <m_billybob> about 30W each panel
May 28 04:06:24 <m_billybob> 30-40W
May 28 04:06:48 <mastiff> the well built panels make power forever if you keep them clean
May 28 04:07:02 * m_billybob nods
May 28 04:07:14 <mastiff> alot of the garden solar lights fail from bird shit and rain
May 28 04:07:26 <m_billybob> link i gave earlier there another link at the bottom to a small gallery of the arco panels on the building roof
May 28 04:07:34 <m_billybob> and our charge controler setup at that time
May 28 04:08:07 <mastiff> these are the trackers i made
May 28 04:08:08 <mastiff> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9CsCOYQlSQ
May 28 04:08:27 <mastiff> from James Baldwin's open source design
May 28 04:08:27 <m_billybob> suffice it to say though aroudn 8AM we're pullign in ~120A @ around 13-13.5v
May 28 04:08:49 <mastiff> one of my BBB interests is the low power
May 28 04:08:59 <mastiff> you too?
May 28 04:09:47 <m_billybob> yes, i also want to make a mppt charge controler out of one someday
May 28 04:09:56 <m_billybob> got different project in mind rigth now though
May 28 04:11:16 <m_billybob> although i could use a picolo c2000 for mppt charger, but i actually like the bbb much better
May 28 04:11:39 <mastiff> i like the idea of TI's power harverster ICs but they can't take the peak current from one of the thermoelectrics on my diesel stove on my sailboat.
May 28 04:11:55 <m_billybob> thsoe racks btw are very col but for here lol they're be wreckage in a matter of days
May 28 04:12:01 <m_billybob> very cool*
May 28 04:12:40 <m_billybob> we're currently experimenting with a tracking array, usign steel 1/8" thick 3/4 angle
May 28 04:12:43 <m_billybob> and its not enough
May 28 04:13:10 <mastiff> the 1 1/4" is alot stiff try that before increasing thickness
May 28 04:13:23 <m_billybob> wind here can be very extreme. this area is known for destoying badly designed wind turbines
May 28 04:13:41 <mastiff> How many sq per panel?
May 28 04:13:43 <m_billybob> yeah i told my buddy that but him being an engineer, thinks he knows everything lol
May 28 04:14:00 <m_billybob> electronics engineer . . .but yeah heh
May 28 04:14:06 <mastiff> i'm an engineer an a few things :)
May 28 04:14:21 <mastiff> other things not so much
May 28 04:14:28 <m_billybob> well i went to trade school formetal workign and welding when i was young
May 28 04:14:37 <m_billybob> i know a bit about it too but not an engineer
May 28 04:14:54 <m_billybob> i kow what we have is not good enough even before we used it
May 28 04:15:13 <m_billybob> the wind here can kit high 80's ( mph ) here
May 28 04:15:18 <m_billybob> can hit*
May 28 04:15:42 <m_billybob> square surface im not sure
May 28 04:16:17 <mastiff> the 1 - 1/4" solar trackers in 304 and 316ss have circumnavigated the world many times with I believe 40-70W panels. Bigger than than you need to use two panells, and stifen up the frame and probably the deck or mounting point.
May 28 04:16:23 <m_billybob> the panels we just put up are atleast 30'x40' for the full array
May 28 04:16:48 <m_billybob> but ive never been a good judge of distance by eye
May 28 04:17:22 <m_billybob> we kind of fudged it, made sure the rails were right per bank of panels
May 28 04:17:29 <mastiff> those are bigger so you might need wider 1/8" stock or move to 3/16"
May 28 04:17:53 <m_billybob> oh you mean for the tracking aray
May 28 04:18:05 <mastiff> yeah not the frame
May 28 04:18:10 <m_billybob> 8x8 ' at most
May 28 04:18:27 <m_billybob> well
May 28 04:18:35 <m_billybob> 8x12' maybe
May 28 04:18:45 <mastiff> i mean dimension of each panel
May 28 04:18:47 <m_billybob> two panels wide 4 high
May 28 04:19:01 <m_billybob> give me a minute ill just go find out now lol
May 28 04:21:49 <ka6sox> mranostay, define "worst"
May 28 04:24:15 <m_billybob> roughly (5'2" * 3'2" ) * 8
May 28 04:24:44 <m_billybob> so
May 28 04:25:28 <mranostay> ka6sox: is that a hutch?
May 28 04:27:01 <m_billybob> 12.66' high  10.33' wide
May 28 04:27:29 <m_billybob> and if i had to uess somewhere about 250lbs in weight
May 28 04:28:01 <m_billybob> never weighed or paid attention to the panel weight
May 28 04:28:51 <mastiff> what's the lowest current usage the BBB can have while still processing interupts?
May 28 04:29:12 <mastiff> ballpark>?
May 28 04:29:15 <m_billybob> loaded question i think
May 28 04:29:27 <m_billybob> peak is 460mA for just the board
May 28 04:29:35 <m_billybob> so sayeth the SRM
May 28 04:29:53 <mastiff> don't even know enough to understand how it could be loaded hehe
May 28 04:30:07 <m_billybob> well thats the loaded question part
May 28 04:30:31 <m_billybob> what frequency will it be operating at ? how much load on the processor ? how much IO will it be using ?
May 28 04:30:33 <m_billybob> etc etc
May 28 04:31:28 <m_billybob> do you have a target power draw figure in mind ?
May 28 04:31:57 <mastiff> I can allocate 5W continuous power easily for BBB or other microcontrollers on my boat
May 28 04:32:18 <m_billybob> well i think on average you'll be much lower than 5W
May 28 04:32:35 <m_billybob> but you're goign ot probably need a peak of 10W possibly more reall ydepends on what you're doing
May 28 04:32:38 <mastiff> Sure, easily but I'll use multiple devices
May 28 04:32:51 <mastiff> also high power RF amps
May 28 04:33:14 <mastiff> and multiple BBBs/arduinos for redundancy
May 28 04:33:35 <m_billybob> what do you need the arduinos for ?
May 28 04:34:00 <mastiff> the one I'm using now is running my diesel burning stove
May 28 04:34:06 <m_billybob> it is possibly you may be able to get away using somethign like a msp4302553
May 28 04:34:08 <mastiff> burns blue flame
May 28 04:34:11 <mastiff> sure
May 28 04:34:20 <mastiff> just have to do it
May 28 04:34:32 <m_billybob> ardiono cant compete with a msp430 value line processor where power is concerned
May 28 04:34:38 <m_billybob> ardiono*
May 28 04:34:48 <mastiff> burns blue flame after heating up, even with waste motor oil
May 28 04:34:50 <m_billybob> bah you kow what i mean lol
May 28 04:35:14 <mastiff> yeah, I like BBB way better
May 28 04:35:46 <mastiff> i just want to boot off my 16GB
May 28 04:35:57 <m_billybob> well im just saying, you *could* use a single bbb to control many msp430's
May 28 04:36:14 <m_billybob> the msp430g2553 has uart SPI and I2C
May 28 04:36:28 <m_billybob> you can use two of those three at any given time
May 28 04:36:29 <mastiff> much rather use existing linux code for controlling my fire, versus code I have to write
May 28 04:36:50 <m_billybob> ok i suppose ;)
May 28 04:37:03 <mastiff> sure, you could suggest many things I've not considered
May 28 04:37:40 <m_billybob> i just know the msp430 well enough now that maybe id spend a while writtign code for it but i know the hardware fairly decent now so . . yeah easy for me, maybe not for you
May 28 04:38:17 <m_billybob> once you learn it its really simple especially compared to somethign like the bbb
May 28 04:38:25 <m_billybob> the bbb is very complex
May 28 04:38:39 <mastiff> yeah so basically i wanna use the code i've written for controlling the pump to be useable with BBB, not sure how to do that yet?
May 28 04:39:30 <ka6sox> mranostay, yes, its an armoire desk
May 28 04:40:40 <mastiff> why does the BBB compliler use java instead of C?
May 28 04:42:11 <mastiff> What's the easiest way to make my arduino programs run on BBB?
May 28 04:45:25 <m_billybob> port the code
May 28 04:45:40 <m_billybob> or wait for someone to write somethign similar and modfy for your ow nuse
May 28 04:46:29 <m_billybob> im not big on arduino stuff, but to me it looks similar to some of the bonescript stuff ive seen
May 28 04:46:58 <m_billybob> most of the arduino code ive seen was written by ladyada and is C++
May 28 04:48:24 <av500> ka6sox: desk where?
May 28 04:48:35 <m_billybob> but hmm yeah im new to linux dev myself, much of the logic stuff should still apply for the code you've writen already, just the "intefacing" code
May 28 04:48:45 <m_billybob> would be different
May 28 04:48:50 <ketas> hah, boats
May 28 04:50:20 <ketas> mastiff: depends how long code
May 28 04:50:32 <ketas> but you need to port anyway
May 28 04:50:44 <Shadyman> port.. or maybe a stout.
May 28 04:50:49 <Shadyman> or india pale ale
May 28 04:50:56 <m_billybob> vodka
May 28 04:50:59 <m_billybob> go all the way
May 28 04:51:00 <ketas> unless someone ports arduino c library to real os
May 28 04:51:18 <ketas> well actually i think i came from os env
May 28 04:51:30 <Shadyman> arduino just runs through gcc, really
May 28 04:51:48 <mastiff> no really the arduino code  have is really simple
May 28 04:51:50 <ketas> the wired c library to make things easier for users
May 28 04:52:05 <ketas> mastiff: so just write new
May 28 04:52:06 <Shadyman> mastiff: Shell script :3
May 28 04:52:09 <mastiff> much more useful to be able to use linux stuff cheap
May 28 04:52:21 <ketas> mastiff: unlike uc, there is full os there
May 28 04:52:27 <ketas> so use what you want
May 28 04:53:09 <ketas> realtimeness may suffer
May 28 04:53:15 <ka6sox> av500, this is my "home office"
May 28 04:53:21 <ketas> well, "response delay"
May 28 04:53:29 <ka6sox> but I do have another space that occasionally I go.
May 28 04:53:30 <ketas> there is not much realtime there
May 28 04:53:31 <mastiff> BBB was working fantastic for me until I ran out of disk space
May 28 04:53:43 <ketas> then what happened?
May 28 04:53:51 <Hani> Hey Guys
May 28 04:53:58 <ketas> Part
May 28 04:54:05 <Hani> I have a question regarding burning an image on SD Card
May 28 04:54:16 <mastiff> then I tried to flash the updated angstrom linux as per the Getting Started instructions
May 28 04:54:20 <av500> ka6sox: cant see that on your feed
May 28 04:54:45 <mastiff> then that SD card killed both my bbbs when I tried to boot off it
May 28 04:55:01 <av500> nothing killed
May 28 04:55:01 <mastiff> now neither boots even without the SD
May 28 04:55:16 <mastiff> reflash right?
May 28 04:55:16 <ketas> you used flasher image?
May 28 04:55:24 <mastiff> the 5-20
May 28 04:55:45 <ketas> even without sd?
May 28 04:55:54 <ka6sox> av500, fixed
May 28 04:55:58 <ka6sox> see it now?
May 28 04:56:01 <ketas> why should it boot without sd when flash content is ruined
May 28 04:56:10 <mastiff> ??
May 28 04:56:26 <m_billybob> thats what he needs a seria ldebugging cable for ;)
May 28 04:56:29 <ketas> well if it doesn't boot anymore, flash is broken
May 28 04:56:47 <m_billybob> flash isnt brken just the install it borked.
May 28 04:57:04 <ketas> in content wise
May 28 04:57:14 <mastiff> I don't mind learning with these problems, but you guys gotta fix this stuff before it goes out to kids and such.
May 28 04:57:22 <av500> ka6sox: indeed
May 28 04:57:46 <av500> mastiff: we are working on it
May 28 04:57:48 <ketas> well what did you even do?
May 28 04:58:04 <ketas> used what kind of image?
May 28 04:58:34 <mastiff> I finished compiling rtl-sdr after some difficulties, tested to work well, than proceeded to compile gnuradio
May 28 04:58:39 <mastiff> ran out of disk space
May 28 04:59:03 <ketas> but how sd is even related to this
May 28 04:59:05 <mastiff> then tried to flash a 16gb card as per Getting Started instructions with updated .img
May 28 04:59:30 <mastiff> ran out of space on internal, then flashed updated image onto SD
May 28 04:59:30 <ketas> flash a card hmm
May 28 04:59:45 <ketas> still confusing
May 28 04:59:47 <mastiff> booting off that SD took out two different BBBs
May 28 04:59:51 <mastiff> yeah i know
May 28 04:59:56 <ketas> well
May 28 05:00:02 <ketas> do you have serial cable
May 28 05:00:09 <mastiff> both BBBs were working now after trying to boot off that SD neither will boot
May 28 05:00:16 <mastiff> no serial cable
May 28 05:00:22 <ketas> you need ttl cable for that
May 28 05:00:59 <mastiff> i have the connectors to make one, but what softare to use?
May 28 05:01:01 <ketas> hmm, do we have image of flash
May 28 05:01:11 <ketas> software?
May 28 05:01:18 <mastiff> the flash image is the 5-20  BBB
May 28 05:01:30 <mastiff> the one Getting Started links to
May 28 05:01:56 <m_billybob> mastiff, may i make a suggestion ?
May 28 05:02:00 <ketas> i think that image was for flashing internal flash
May 28 05:02:02 <mastiff> pleas
May 28 05:02:05 <mastiff> e
May 28 05:02:13 <ketas> i mean image to run off
May 28 05:02:15 <m_billybob> mastiff, get some rest, call ti a new day tomorrow.
May 28 05:02:41 <m_billybob> how long you been up and at this today ?
May 28 05:02:48 <m_billybob> 14? 16 hours ?
May 28 05:03:41 <mastiff> All  day =)
May 28 05:03:54 <ketas> mastiff: well you might need serial cable anyway
May 28 05:04:10 <mastiff> It's ok I got things working before the SD stuff broke it
May 28 05:04:18 <ketas> that's good thing to have
May 28 05:04:25 <m_billybob> we need one to
May 28 05:04:31 <mastiff> I was mostly interested in installing rtl-sdr and gnu radio
May 28 05:04:40 <m_billybob> had an old uSD card go wonky on us one day no idea why
May 28 05:05:05 <ketas> must be ttl, don't connect "regular" serial ports to board because it will burn
May 28 05:05:10 <m_billybob> I suspect it was because of a hard improper power down but how can you really tell ?
May 28 05:05:43 <mastiff> I just don't understand how the SD flash on the 16GB card corrupted the internal 2GB cards on two different BBBw when they were both working immediately prior.  ???
May 28 05:06:09 <ketas> because it was supposed to rewrite the flash?
May 28 05:06:19 <m_billybob> mastiff, if you copied over a flasher image, thats what they intended to do, but why it would ruin the install is beyond me
May 28 05:06:39 <ketas> maybe he didn't have patience to wait
May 28 05:06:54 <m_billybob> unless you pulled the card out before it was finished flashign then yeah i could see that very easily wiping out the existing install
May 28 05:07:02 <mastiff> Yeah I don't know either.
May 28 05:07:24 <ketas> m_billybob: what does the flasher image do?
May 28 05:07:30 <ketas> m_billybob: overwrite all flash?
May 28 05:07:33 <mastiff> I flashed it on windows according to the getting started instructions
May 28 05:07:38 <ketas> m_billybob: copy files?
May 28 05:08:02 <m_billybob> ive never used it personally, but my understand is you run it by booting it, it boots a minimal instal envoinrment then goes to town on the emmc
May 28 05:08:21 <ketas> overwrites all of emmc?
May 28 05:08:31 <mastiff> everything was going great until the SD flash
May 28 05:08:34 <ketas> i should check what it contains
May 28 05:08:42 <m_billybob> so very likely  . ..yeah right dd the boot sector etc
May 28 05:08:49 <ketas> well could you try again
May 28 05:09:03 <mastiff> i did try again same thing
May 28 05:09:15 <m_billybob> mastiff, what would be interresting
May 28 05:09:31 <mastiff> one BBB boots with all usr lights solid, the other only usr 3 lit
May 28 05:09:39 <mastiff> without the SD
May 28 05:09:43 <m_billybob> save one of the bbbs, install debian on an sd boot that then mount the emmc through debian and see whats up with the partitions etc
May 28 05:10:18 <m_billybob> that is somethign you can do with a serial cable
May 28 05:10:23 <ketas> any of such images that you can ssh into?
May 28 05:10:23 <mastiff> oh yeah, I 'm making the debian install from eewiki, ran into a compliation error
May 28 05:10:34 <ketas> because he has no serial
May 28 05:10:45 <mastiff> I can soon, but not NOW
May 28 05:11:13 <m_billybob> ketas you can use a cross compile system to setup the boot / rootfs, etc adnjus tssh in via ethernet
May 28 05:11:15 <ketas> anyway, flasher image should fix the internal flash
May 28 05:11:28 <m_billybob> you have control over the ethernet settign fro mteh cross compile system
May 28 05:11:39 <m_billybob> when you write the fs and files etc
May 28 05:11:40 <ketas> well, can mastiff do it?
May 28 05:11:44 <ketas> i can do it well
May 28 05:11:57 * m_billybob needs to write a newb friendly how to he guesses
May 28 05:12:11 <mastiff> the other thing is after -zip, the updated angstrom image was 3.5GB?? WTF?
May 28 05:12:14 <ketas> you can also mount both image and sd card in machine and modify files
May 28 05:12:18 <m_billybob> would just be a rip of Roberts debian install but exact steps
May 28 05:12:19 <mastiff> 7zip
May 28 05:12:32 <ketas> currently windows?
May 28 05:13:06 <mastiff> was using windows for the SD stuff because of Getting Started rcs
May 28 05:13:18 <ketas> hmm
May 28 05:13:21 <m_billybob> mastiff again thats because its an install image, it has to contain the boot, and setup tools to setup the emmc. not even half that should wind up on the emmc
May 28 05:13:47 <mastiff> yeah, not sure
May 28 05:13:54 <m_billybob> im nearly possitive
May 28 05:13:57 <mastiff> i was doing ok but ran out of disk space
May 28 05:14:02 <ketas> weird
May 28 05:14:30 <ketas> well, hopefully you have no important data there
May 28 05:15:08 <m_billybob> think about it like this mastiff a general distro install dvd is large, but depending on how, and what you install the ending process can be MB's or GBs in size
May 28 05:15:16 <m_billybob> prime example would be ubuntu LTS
May 28 05:16:06 <m_billybob> debian single cd install roughly 700MB but a minimal CLI install is aroudn 500MBs depending on what you instal
May 28 05:16:51 <ketas> mastiff: well, can you try again?
May 28 05:17:15 <ketas> mastiff: write image to card... boot properly from card and wait it to complete?
May 28 05:17:37 <ketas> should try that too
May 28 05:17:44 <ketas> i corrupted flash too
May 28 05:18:06 <m_billybob> oh i completely hosed my first several goes on the debian install
May 28 05:18:15 <m_billybob> got really lucky with opkg update though
May 28 05:18:19 <m_billybob> went smooth as silk
May 28 05:18:34 <m_billybob> opkg upgrade*
May 28 05:18:48 <ketas> it's likely in bootloader when i attach console :P
May 28 05:19:13 <ketas> well wasn't opkg update for updating list of available packages?
May 28 05:19:29 <m_billybob> meant upgrade
May 28 05:19:58 <ketas> well, dns broke there, so i restarted network manager
May 28 05:20:05 <ketas> i never came up again :)
May 28 05:20:08 <ketas> it
May 28 05:20:10 <m_billybob> opkg update && opkg upgrade && opkg --force-overwrite kernel blah blah blah
May 28 05:20:32 <m_billybob> worked like a charm
May 28 05:20:33 <ketas> aah nice
May 28 05:20:40 <ketas> at least recovery is easy
May 28 05:20:47 <ketas> waiting for microsd card
May 28 05:21:17 <ketas> actually hmm why did it order one
May 28 05:21:27 <ketas> lot of shops close by sell those anyway
May 28 05:22:04 <Shadyman> So it seems that to actually flash a cape eeprom, you need to stick the eeprom on I2C1 instead, and program it there?
May 28 05:24:43 <Shadyman> ooh, fun. http://azkeller.com/blog/?p=62
May 28 05:29:27 <m_billybob> cant believe ive been farting aroudn withthis for a couple hours off and on
May 28 05:29:33 <m_billybob> http://pastebin.com/m9GyYcsX
May 28 05:29:53 <m_billybob> 19 lines of code lol
May 28 05:33:14 * m_billybob wonders if the WDT can be used a a gp timer
May 28 05:34:25 <heybeaglebone> hey what languages can you program bb in?
May 28 05:37:59 <m_billybob> which language do you want to use ?
May 28 05:38:14 <m_billybob> ^^^ your answer
May 28 05:40:45 <ketas> heybeaglebone: well, it's computer so any
May 28 05:43:04 <heybeaglebone> so i can code using c/c++/java ?
May 28 05:43:17 <heybeaglebone> also does it have wifi built in or do i need a dongle?
May 28 05:45:45 <ketas> dongle
May 28 05:48:15 <Hani> Has anyone ran into any issues while burning a preimaged Android 2.3 on SD Card from TI's website for beaglebone?
May 28 06:02:48 <av500> nothing is burning
May 28 06:30:37 <tsjsieb> goodmorning
May 28 06:41:48 <Shadyman> 'lo
May 28 07:12:35 <Marcwolf__> Greetings. I have a question regarding the Beaglebone and SimpleCV. Is there anyone hwere who has knowledge of these hareas :)
May 28 07:13:09 <Marcwolf__> Sorry about the multiple logins - my browser was not showing the chat line
May 28 07:17:15 <Shadyman> Marcwolf__: I don't have any experience with SimpleCV, sorry.
May 28 07:17:46 <Marcwolf__> Ok.. What is the fastest lightest Linux you can put on a Beaglebone Black.
May 28 07:18:14 <Marcwolf__> What I want to do is to trace multiple blobs on a face and return XY co-ords  a.k.a. Avatar
May 28 07:18:33 <Shadyman> I'd imagine angstrom is the lightest.
May 28 07:18:53 <Shadyman> otherwise you could build your own gentoo from the ground up
May 28 07:19:12 <Shadyman> i'd think they should all be similar for what you're doing
May 28 07:19:28 <panto> good morning
May 28 07:21:19 <ynezz> صباح الخير
May 28 07:23:02 <suihkulokki> I have to say the beaglebone black ångrström image gives very good first impression
May 28 07:24:02 <Shadyman> suihkulokki: Just don't opkg update/upgrade without good reason :)
May 28 07:24:27 <Marcwolf__> Suih.. I have seen a few people mention that however its the SimpleCV and Python that is the issue.  Myself - Not C programmer
May 28 07:25:10 <ka6sox> moaning Panto
May 28 07:25:19 <panto> moaning indeed
May 28 07:25:48 <Marcwolf__> My project is to plot upto 10 color blobs painted on a face and then return the XY corords for processing off beagle.
May 28 07:26:23 <Marcwolf__> These would then be sent to a small servo controller which would move the servos in approimation of the facial movements.
May 28 07:27:50 <Marcwolf__> Hi have tried with a Raspberry but it was so slow on even a simple 320x240 frame grab that I gave up
May 28 07:28:28 <ka6sox> moaning vvu
May 28 07:28:40 <vvu> helllo!
May 28 07:28:55 <Shadyman> Marcwolf__: Heh. Not entirely surprised re: Pi :)
May 28 07:29:35 * vvu is still sleeping or he thinks so like this
May 28 07:29:40 <Marcwolf__> Shady- Well one has sto start somewhere.
May 28 07:29:42 <Shadyman> Marcwolf__: Also, with the 'bone, it will bump the SoC up to a full 1Ghz when the DC jack is plugged in
May 28 07:29:57 <Shadyman> on USB, it's throttled to, I think, 720Mhz?
May 28 07:30:07 <Shadyman> Something to keep in mind
May 28 07:30:27 <ka6sox> 720 ought to be enuf for anyone :P
May 28 07:30:37 <Marcwolf__> :*nods* After an interesting meltdown with previous experiments I power a little as possible from a USB port
May 28 07:30:45 <Shadyman> Oh?
May 28 07:31:06 <Shadyman> Sounds like something decided not to autonegotiate :3
May 28 07:31:25 <ka6sox> powering from usb is flakey! (experience withthis)
May 28 07:32:09 <Marcwolf__> Homebrew device err.. smoked an USB chip on different board all to gether.
May 28 07:32:20 <Shadyman> Impressive.
May 28 07:32:34 <Marcwolf__> Not a Beagle but I learned my lesson.
May 28 07:32:55 <Shadyman> Generally one, if not both, have fuses. a homebrew board I could see without, but the USB chip? Gross.
May 28 07:32:59 <Marcwolf__> Though I do have a nice powered USB hub
May 28 07:33:46 <Shadyman> I've got some nice Duracell LiIon packs... usb-chargeable, usb-mini-b output
May 28 07:34:01 <Marcwolf__> Although I am new into the mini-Linux systems I have experience in PicAxe's, Arduinos, and some Propeller
May 28 07:34:59 <Shadyman> big guy's got a 2000 mAh / 3.7V Li-Ion in it, little guy's 500 mAh / 3.7V, both boosted to 5V out, big guy outputs 750mA, little guy 500mA
May 28 07:35:19 <Shadyman> They've gone clearance at retail, I'm going to go raid a couple stores of them.
May 28 07:35:30 <Shadyman> Little guy's, like, $1.75, big guy's $6.75
May 28 07:35:38 <Marcwolf__> Ok Shady.. Many thanks for your valuable input
May 28 07:35:52 <Shadyman> Marcwolf__: Well, it was input. Its value is up to you :)
May 28 07:36:00 <Shadyman> heh
May 28 07:36:33 <Marcwolf__> It's night here in Australia so I'd better sign off.  Thanks all
May 28 07:36:38 <Shadyman> g'nite
May 28 07:36:41 <Shadyman> ka6sox: So now I've got an EEPROM flashed for my sd card cape. I guess I need to make some kind of driver file now to make it work, right?
May 28 07:36:51 <Shadyman> Marcwolf__: 3:36 AM here :)
May 28 07:37:27 <ka6sox> Shadyman, you need to create a DTS and DTBO for it.
May 28 07:37:36 <wickedshell> trying to locate where the sd card is mounted on beaglebone black, if I boot off of the eMMC angstrom image, but I can't seem to find it. The usual suspects of /dev/mmcblk is all the eMMC and no /dev/sdX's are avalible... Where would I grab a handle on the sd card so I can mount it? (also how do I get it setup so that having a SD card inserted at boot time doesnt cause a hang?)
May 28 07:38:00 <ka6sox> wickedshell, currently that is a known issue
May 28 07:38:12 <ka6sox> its being worked but NO EtA
May 28 07:38:16 <Shadyman> wickedshell: there should be two mmcblks
May 28 07:38:39 <ka6sox> Shadyman, there are detection issues...
May 28 07:38:49 <Shadyman> ah
May 28 07:38:59 <Shadyman> wickedshell: This works in the interim, though :) http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/beagleboneblack/install_emmc.xml#expand
May 28 07:39:18 <Shadyman> I've got mine up and going
May 28 07:40:15 <wickedshell> there are mmcblk0boot and mmcblk0p are these infact signifcantly different? cant remember if I actually diffed them now.... will check that
May 28 07:40:37 <Shadyman> wickedshell: If you prep your sd card as on that page, it should not hang at boot
May 28 07:40:46 <wickedshell> Shadyman, thanks, that will help on that issue
May 28 07:40:55 <Shadyman> :D I'm a helper :3
May 28 07:40:58 <wickedshell> :P
May 28 07:43:00 * Shadyman sits down and learns devicetrees
May 28 07:44:03 * Shadyman 's head explodes.
May 28 07:46:37 <ka6sox> Shadyman, take it in small doses
May 28 07:46:51 <Shadyman> I'll add it to my reading list :)
May 28 07:46:54 <ka6sox> read a pinmux patch...
May 28 07:47:08 <ka6sox> thats the simplest.
May 28 07:47:36 <ka6sox> Shadyman, what doco are you reading?
May 28 07:48:36 <Shadyman> http://hipstercircuits.com/adding-beaglebone-cape-support-to-a-kernel-with-device-tree-in-ubuntu/ http://elinux.org/Capemgr which were okay, until http://devicetree.org/Device_Tree_Usage totally broke my brain
May 28 07:48:40 <Sy_> Hello, can anyone point me in the direction of where I can download source code for Heartbeat, this is an application available on Centos and Debian for managing floating IP address between two units...I would like to port it to Angstrom so I can use it on BBB.
May 28 07:49:04 <kelvinji> I had fixed my problesm and thank all of you .:)
May 28 07:49:24 <ka6sox> Sy_, grep the source tree for angstrom for heartbeat
May 28 07:49:33 <ka6sox> there might be a bbfile for it
May 28 07:49:43 <kelvinji> Now i am trying to port Ubuntu-arm to my board.
May 28 07:49:59 <ka6sox> kelvinji, GLHF!
May 28 07:50:17 <Sy_> Ok, sorry, where do I do that?
May 28 07:51:44 <Shadyman> ka6sox: http://blog.pignology.net/2013/05/getting-uart2-devttyo1-working-on.html looks like it might be close enough to follow along with
May 28 07:53:52 <wickedshell> Shadyman, lol I already had to follow that to get uart1 back for my application :P present me hates past me for thinking I could just drop beaglebone black in where I used to have the A6....
May 28 07:54:04 <Shadyman> heh
May 28 07:54:58 <Shadyman> also https://github.com/mranostay/beagle-nixie/blob/master/kernel/3.8/0002-beaglebone-Add-nixie-cape-device-tree-entry.patch looks like a nice patch by mranostay to follow along with
May 28 07:56:42 <Shadyman> but for now... bedtime. G'nite folks
May 28 07:57:35 <ka6sox> nite Shadyman
May 28 07:58:25 <wickedshell> night
May 28 08:06:16 <ka6sox> nite all
May 28 08:06:45 <vvu> night ka6sox-away!
May 28 08:06:52 <panto> cya ka6sox-away
May 28 08:11:39 <Rick__> Hi, I am a newbie here. I want to know whether BeagleBoneBlack can support a 720p camera for continuous image capturing for machine vision purposes. Or how to start for this problem statement? thanks
May 28 08:17:51 <dm8tbr> Rick__: it might. also depends on how the camera is connected and which frame rate etc
May 28 08:19:37 <av500> Rick__: capturing should work
May 28 08:19:44 <av500> then, what to do with the data....
May 28 08:20:42 <dm8tbr> what amount of processing etc
May 28 08:22:05 <noob> hi guys
May 28 08:22:10 <noob> i wanted to know
May 28 08:22:25 <Guest2583> whether SD card is provided with bone black
May 28 08:22:25 <dm8tbr> 42
May 28 08:22:26 <Rick__> The image will be conditioned as per use and will be processed further. For now I need to know whether the board will support 720p camera or not.
May 28 08:22:57 <Guest2583> ?
May 28 08:22:58 <Rick__> Hi, I am a newbie here. I want to know whether BeagleBoneBlack can support a 720p camera for continuous image capturing for machine vision purposes. Or how to start for this problem statement? thanks ... The image will be conditioned as per use and will be processed further. For now I need to know whether the board will support 720p camera or not.
May 28 08:23:21 <dm8tbr> Rick__: yes, you said that already
May 28 08:24:45 <dm8tbr> Rick__: http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_3.1MP_Camera - that would be a good option for you
May 28 08:26:06 <Rick__> ... k let me go through.
May 28 08:27:08 <Guest2583> ????
May 28 08:27:20 <Guest2583> somebody tell me?
May 28 08:28:43 <dm8tbr> Guest2583: it comes with an eMMC
May 28 08:29:24 <Guest2583> os is installed in eMMC?
May 28 08:29:34 <dm8tbr> yes
May 28 08:29:42 <panto> dm8tbr, the camera cape works
May 28 08:29:53 <av500> Guest2583: yes
May 28 08:29:55 <Guest2583> can i uninstall it and use ubuntu in uSD card ?
May 28 08:29:59 <av500> Guest2583: no sd in the box
May 28 08:30:02 <av500> yes you can
May 28 08:30:04 <dm8tbr> panto: yes, that's why I pointed it out
May 28 08:30:04 <av500> its all SW
May 28 08:31:03 <Guest2583> and use eMMC for data storage?
May 28 08:31:29 <dm8tbr> it's 2G, so there should be space to store data
May 28 08:33:11 <Guest2583> where can i find some example codes for bone?
May 28 08:34:18 <Guest2583> can bone black be use with all bone-capes?
May 28 08:34:30 <panto> there is no special code for the bone
May 28 08:34:32 <panto> it's standard linux
May 28 08:34:52 <panto> the only different thing is the enablement of the hardware devices
May 28 08:35:06 <Guest2583> i wanna use RS485 cape
May 28 08:35:30 <russell--> Guest2583: there is a page somewhere that says what capes are supported on BBB
May 28 08:36:19 <Guest2583> does it say anything about RS 485?
May 28 08:37:03 <Guest2583> because one which i saw wasn't updated
May 28 08:37:12 <russell--> no idea, do you know about google?
May 28 08:37:49 <genpix> http://www.elinux.org/BeagleBone_Black_Capes <-- thelist of compatible capes for BBB
May 28 08:38:26 <genpix> rs485 is not on it
May 28 08:38:38 <genpix> it is "planned", though
May 28 08:39:05 <genpix> similar to LCD7 cape (not supported yet bat planned)
May 28 08:39:44 <genpix> though, if you recompile your own kernel (debian distro, for instane), there is a chance rs485 will work
May 28 08:39:54 <russell--> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_RS485 implies that it uses P8_23 and P8_25, which the BBB ordinarily uses for its HDMI video out
May 28 08:40:21 <panto> rs485 is just rs232
May 28 08:40:35 <genpix> my LCD7 started to work (even though I saw wome "crash" messages in dmesg about HDMI - which is loaded after LCD7 driver)
May 28 08:40:36 <panto> there's no driver
May 28 08:40:42 <russell--> oops, no, those are eMMC pins
May 28 08:40:45 <Guest2583> so i have to go with just bone?
May 28 08:40:52 <panto> genpix, HDMI doesn't 'crash'
May 28 08:41:00 <russell--> "have to" is strong language
May 28 08:41:10 <panto> it detects that the LCD interface is in use and stops loading
May 28 08:41:43 <genpix> that's why I used "s
May 28 08:41:47 <panto> russell--, that cape is weird
May 28 08:41:51 <Guest2583> well i dont know " if you recompile your own kernel (debian distro, for instane)"
May 28 08:41:56 <Guest2583> thats why
May 28 08:41:57 <panto> it has dip switches to select the uart you use
May 28 08:41:59 <genpix> it reports something about "failed to load"
May 28 08:42:13 <panto> genpix, yes, it's working as expected
May 28 08:42:37 <panto> lcd7 has priority, loads and grabs the pins
May 28 08:42:48 <av500> panto: what is weird about it?
May 28 08:43:02 <panto> you can't do the pinmuxing according to the EEPROM
May 28 08:43:12 <genpix> the same is for rs232 cape, it also grabs some pins which HDMI wanted to use
May 28 08:43:19 * russell-- would probably ask the dudes that manufacture it
May 28 08:43:26 <panto> genpix, in that case the rs232 will work
May 28 08:43:35 <av500> panto: so make 4 capes?
May 28 08:43:38 <av500> one for each uart?
May 28 08:43:38 <panto> add on capes have priority over the built-in
May 28 08:43:39 <russell--> (assuming, perhaps incorrectly, they are dudes)
May 28 08:43:53 <panto> av500, I don't know
May 28 08:44:00 <genpix> but because RS232 is loaded before (in on of first 4 slots), it takes priority over HDMI (which is in slot #5)
May 28 08:44:19 <panto> maybe there should be as many eeproms, as selectable with each dip switch
May 28 08:44:27 <av500> right
May 28 08:44:35 <av500> maybe an fpga
May 28 08:44:39 <av500> that emulates an eprom
May 28 08:45:17 <panto> I think 1 eeprom with adjustable offsets would work
May 28 08:45:27 <av500> are there such
May 28 08:45:28 <panto> or even if you could read the dip switch
May 28 08:45:28 <av500> ?
May 28 08:45:46 <av500> the dip and the jumpers can still disagree
May 28 08:45:47 <panto> av500, no, there must be some kind of cpld/logic
May 28 08:46:08 <panto> yeah, only one method should be used
May 28 08:46:10 <av500> while we are at it, just an atmega
May 28 08:46:16 <av500> add an*
May 28 08:46:18 <panto> av500, +1
May 28 08:46:30 <panto> not even that big
May 28 08:46:34 <panto> HC05 :)
May 28 08:46:36 <av500> its big
May 28 08:46:40 <av500> arduino big
May 28 08:46:45 <panto> no no
May 28 08:46:54 <av500> imagine if every cape was also an arduino
May 28 08:47:00 <panto> no no no
May 28 08:47:09 <av500> and a cape stack a beowulf cluster
May 28 08:47:25 <av500> the kids, they would learn so much
May 28 08:47:42 <panto> there's no easy way to fix the jumper problem
May 28 08:47:55 <russell--> what jumper problem?
May 28 08:47:58 <panto> you could perhaps load a different cape on the black
May 28 08:48:25 <av500> panto: how did ISA P&P solve that?
May 28 08:48:30 <panto> russell--, the rs232 cape has jumpers
May 28 08:48:38 <av500> rs485
May 28 08:48:42 <panto> err, yeah
May 28 08:48:44 <panto> sorry
May 28 08:48:58 <russell--> what makes them a problem?
May 28 08:49:00 <Rick__> Does BeagleBoneBlack support usb camera as the spec says it is USB host?
May 28 08:49:01 <panto> so you either have to grab all the pins it might use
May 28 08:49:10 <av500> Rickkyes
May 28 08:49:16 <av500> Rick__:  yes
May 28 08:49:27 <panto> or only the ones selected by the jumpers
May 28 08:49:35 <av500> all you dont want
May 28 08:49:42 <panto> grabbing all the pins results on a conflict on black
May 28 08:49:52 <panto> with hdmi
May 28 08:49:55 <av500> so none and a dtb depending on the jumpers
May 28 08:50:05 <av500> "expert" mode
May 28 08:50:21 <panto> yeah, 'expert' mode would work
May 28 08:50:25 <av500> ...you will have to edit win.ini...
May 28 08:50:25 <russell--> panto: actually with eMMC i think
May 28 08:50:26 <panto> actually that is already supported
May 28 08:50:32 <panto> russell--, err, right
May 28 08:50:37 * russell-- guessed wrong earlier
May 28 08:50:52 <av500> panto: so cape eprom needs a flag for weird capes
May 28 08:50:55 <panto> there's 'disable' option, that blocks specific capes to load automatically
May 28 08:51:05 <Jaguar-> emmc and hdmi are on the cape headers
May 28 08:51:07 <panto> so you can block loading of the default cape
May 28 08:51:22 <panto> and then load manually a dtbo that does exactly what you need
May 28 08:51:23 <genpix> tell me more about 'disable' option
May 28 08:51:26 <Jaguar-> but you can easily disable them if you decompile the dtb in /boot/
May 28 08:51:30 <genpix> where is it?
May 28 08:51:37 <panto> genpix, it's already in the kernel
May 28 08:51:42 <Guest2583> can i use uSD card for both OS(ubuntu) and 2gb data storage?
May 28 08:52:10 <panto> Guest2583, sure, just get a big enough card, and partition
May 28 08:52:23 <Guest2583> 4gb enough?
May 28 08:52:50 <panto> no idea, but ubuntu is kinda big
May 28 08:52:53 <russell--> enough depends on "for what?"
May 28 08:53:13 <panto> genpix, capemgr.disable_partno=PART-NUMBER[:REV] in the kernel command line
May 28 08:53:59 <genpix> how can I 'disable" HDMI cape (or Angstrom)? for the life of me, I was never able to enable LCD7 with BBB on Angstrom
May 28 08:54:22 <panto> genpix, it's already disabled
May 28 08:54:26 <genpix> thanks, I'll try that
May 28 08:54:31 <panto> there might be hardware issue
May 28 08:54:37 <panto> we're debugging it right now
May 28 08:55:00 <panto> you have to realize the lcd capes were designed for the white
May 28 08:55:17 <panto> and the hdmi framer is using the same pins
May 28 08:55:54 <panto> we're trying to find a way to shutdown the hdmi part so that there's problem driving both the hdmi + the lcd cape
May 28 08:56:11 <av500> Guest2583: there are 64GB cards
May 28 08:56:14 <Guest2583> panto, how much does ubuntu take?
May 28 08:56:26 <panto> dunno, alot
May 28 08:56:27 <genpix> well, it was a crappy design (of LCD 7) anyway. I'm planning to redo the LCD adapter myself (to the usable format)
May 28 08:56:36 <Guest2583> my application isn't that large?
May 28 08:56:38 <panto> it's not exactly known for slimness
May 28 08:56:44 <av500> it depends
May 28 08:56:49 <panto> why use ubuntu then?
May 28 08:57:02 <panto> what do you need from ubuntu?
May 28 08:57:45 <Guest2583> panto,suggest me another
May 28 08:57:55 <panto> I don't know what your app does
May 28 08:58:30 <Guest2583> developing SCADA system
May 28 08:58:53 <panto> ok, what libraries are you using in ubuntu?
May 28 08:59:14 <panto> are there in other distros? for example angstrom?
May 28 09:01:14 <genpix> panto, what is PART-NUMBER in "capemgr.disable_partno=PART-NUMBER" ? is it slot nomber?
May 28 09:01:28 <panto> no, it's the part number stored in the eeprom
May 28 09:01:38 <Rick__> Repeating same question with more info: Does BeagleBoneBlack support 720p usb camera as the spec says it is USB host?
May 28 09:01:47 <Guest2583> angstrom comes by default in bone right?
May 28 09:01:56 <panto> the fake part number of the hdmi cape is BB-BONELT-HDMI
May 28 09:02:00 <koen> Rick__: define "support"
May 28 09:02:08 <panto> Rick__, yes, but usb dma is not working yet
May 28 09:02:10 <genpix> thanks
May 28 09:02:33 <panto> TI engineers are working on it
May 28 09:03:58 <KotH> a wonderfull JIHAD everyone!
May 28 09:04:00 <Rick__> keon: Can a 720p usb camera be used to capture images using BeagleBoneBlack !
May 28 09:04:23 <panto> Rick__, didn't I answer that? yes.
May 28 09:04:47 <panto> but the capture rate might be low until dma is sorted out
May 28 09:04:48 <RagBal> Armstrong 2013.06 fails building libgles-omap3, is there a reason why it selects 4.05.00.03-r35 instead of a newer version available and could this be the problem?
May 28 09:05:08 <panto> hi KotH
May 28 09:05:49 <Rick__> panto: I explained it to keon. to you: so one has write custom driver similar to bit banging in it?
May 28 09:07:25 <panto> no
May 28 09:07:45 <panto> one has to wait a bit until DMA gets in the kernel driver
May 28 09:09:27 <genpix> my BBB has some strange ethernet behavior: sometime after power cycle there is no any light on ethernet port (and surely, dmesg shows that eth0 was never initialized). Is it a hradware problem of my particular BBB? or someone observed the similar  behavior? (ps: I use 2A@5V power supply)
May 28 09:09:57 <panto> genpix, where are you connecting it?
May 28 09:10:21 <genpix> network hub (10/100/1000)
May 28 09:10:27 <panto> there's an auto power-down mode in the phy
May 28 09:10:34 <genpix> less then 2m cable
May 28 09:11:02 <panto> there has been reports of problems when connecting directly to a host port
May 28 09:11:15 <panto> genpix, what brand?
May 28 09:11:31 <genpix> Trendnet
May 28 09:11:42 <Rick__> panto: Thanks .. what is the expected date for releasing that?
May 28 09:11:43 <panto> is it a managed switch?
May 28 09:11:51 <panto> Rick__, we're working on it
May 28 09:12:00 <panto> you can always nag on your TI representative
May 28 09:12:48 <genpix> no, it's unmanaged (but it is so called "green" switch - it adjust the power to the line based on the length/loss it estimates)
May 28 09:13:05 * av500 has blue switches
May 28 09:13:58 <panto> genpix, I think you get nailed by green power
May 28 09:14:19 <panto> but at least you're saving the earth
May 28 09:14:35 <genpix> i'll try tomorrow at work (with different switch)
May 28 09:30:40 <keesj> should I use the same u-boot fot the BBW and BBB ?
May 28 09:30:54 <panto> keesj, iirc yes
May 28 09:31:15 <av500> yes
May 28 09:31:31 <av500> even for BBC and BBXM
May 28 09:31:39 <av500> ah no
May 28 09:31:43 <av500> different SoC
May 28 09:31:47 <panto> av500, nope
May 28 09:31:50 <av500> uboot needs a DT
May 28 09:31:58 * panto runs 
May 28 09:31:59 <av500> uDT
May 28 09:32:17 <keesj> u-boot depends on DT?
May 28 09:32:22 <av500> not yet
May 28 09:32:33 <av500> but it will come
May 28 09:32:53 <av500> once the uboot maintainer gets fed up with the churn
May 28 09:34:15 <panto> *churn*
May 28 09:34:32 <XorA> cant get butter for your bacon without the churn :-D
May 28 09:34:56 <keesj> They are also integrating all kinds of Linux code I don't know what to think. I like the functionality but also feel lost somewhere
May 28 09:35:40 <av500> nothing like an OS to load your OS
May 28 09:35:52 <av500> maybe one could make a minix based boot loader
May 28 09:36:04 <av500> gsoc 2014
May 28 09:36:26 <panto> I'll make a linux based u-boot loader
May 28 09:36:49 <keesj> I think there are some patches around to boot linux directly after MLO no?
May 28 09:37:03 <av500> yes
May 28 09:37:14 <panto> yes
May 28 09:37:19 <keesj> YES
May 28 09:37:34 <XorA> WWE channel
May 28 09:37:39 <av500> if MLO can find the uboot file, it can find the uimage file too
May 28 09:38:00 <suihkulokki> nobody mentioned uefi yet?
May 28 09:38:11 <ketas> how about boot kernel directly as mlo
May 28 09:38:13 <ketas> :P
May 28 09:38:18 <panto> suihkulokki, it's because we're not masochists
May 28 09:39:06 <av500> ketas: even that is possible
May 28 09:39:10 <av500> on some SoCs
May 28 09:39:25 <av500> e.g. omap3/4
May 28 09:40:04 <av500> the next big thing is to boot into systemd directly
May 28 09:40:04 <ketas> genpix: ethernet fails to init?
May 28 09:40:15 <av500> or into facebook
May 28 09:40:23 <fiola> lol
May 28 09:40:30 <ketas> genpix: if there is no hardware initialized on machine, then it's local problem
May 28 09:40:41 <fiola> That was seriously funny
May 28 09:41:00 <ketas> boot to gecko is there
May 28 09:41:04 <panto> av500, endless stream of cat pics while loading
May 28 09:41:10 <av500> +1
May 28 09:41:10 <ketas> that still needs kernel
May 28 09:41:13 <av500> nah
May 28 09:41:15 <keesj> for a "full" real BSD stack we of course can't use any of that awful u-boot GPL stuff
May 28 09:41:21 <av500> just ethercat
May 28 09:41:34 <keesj> systemd bootloader ++
May 28 09:41:52 <ketas> js runs in kernel
May 28 09:41:56 <ketas> hah
May 28 09:42:13 <ketas> that could be web 4.0 compatible os
May 28 09:42:52 <ketas> there would be no userspace at all
May 28 09:43:06 <av500> and at the same time, everything is userspace
May 28 09:43:16 <av500> it's deep man
May 28 09:43:22 <ketas> and there is no kernel?
May 28 09:43:28 <av500> ketas: all the same
May 28 09:43:34 <av500> hollistic
May 28 09:43:37 <panto> 'there is no spoo^Wkernel'
May 28 09:43:41 <tsjsieb> u-boot-to-the-cloud
May 28 09:43:45 <ketas> js should run on hw
May 28 09:43:57 <panto> just like java did
May 28 09:44:01 <ketas> hah
May 28 09:44:04 <panto> and we all know how good that turned out
May 28 09:44:07 <ketas> well java still does?
May 28 09:44:09 <ketas> :)
May 28 09:44:10 <panto> *well
May 28 09:44:13 <av500> ARM926NODEJS
May 28 09:44:18 <ketas> hahaha
May 28 09:44:40 <ketas> i actually don't get when was it that running js on server became so popular
May 28 09:44:45 <fiola> That's what Sony and the rest of the prison wardens would like, boot loader as a cloud service run by them.
May 28 09:44:48 <ketas> or popular *again*
May 28 09:45:10 <panto> ketas, when your client app is js on web browser, it makes sense
May 28 09:45:14 <av500> fiola: vote with your wallet
May 28 09:45:18 <panto> re-use the developers
May 28 09:45:19 <fiola> Agreed
May 28 09:45:32 <av500> I mean, pay to vote
May 28 09:45:36 <ketas> panto: well, it's not THAT bad actually
May 28 09:45:44 <av500> small votes one $1 today
May 28 09:45:50 <av500> got 5 for $3
May 28 09:46:08 <ketas> panto: language is language after all
May 28 09:46:29 <ketas> if js runs in browser... why not on other side too
May 28 09:47:06 <mru> that's such a fucked up argument
May 28 09:47:49 <ketas> of course, js might not be best option to write backend in
May 28 09:48:25 <ketas> s/best/the best/
May 28 09:48:33 <jackmitchell> I don't really understand why you would write javascript on the server, it's just like a poor mans python, no?
May 28 09:48:47 <keesj> http://www.jnode.org/ + nodejs if all one needs
May 28 09:48:59 <mru> js is the ghetto slang of programming languages
May 28 09:49:11 <jackmitchell> client side, I understand; but sever side.. it confuses me why you would do it
May 28 09:49:42 <fiola> At least JS is secure running server-side because it's under server-side control, unlike client-side where it's a security disaster.
May 28 09:49:52 <ketas> i've never tried to write servers in js
May 28 09:49:55 <mru> the only reason for using js client-side is that that's what browsers support
May 28 09:49:56 <ketas> sounds bs
May 28 09:50:13 <ketas> in browser it's pretty enough bs already
May 28 09:50:25 <mru> yes, but you don't have much choice there
May 28 09:50:32 <ketas> yes
May 28 09:50:54 <mru> all other proposals have been a) worse, and b) never widely supported
May 28 09:51:16 <ketas> vbscript!
May 28 09:51:21 <mru> activex
May 28 09:51:21 <jackmitchell> I would very much enjoy a js-killer broswer side, but I can't see it happening
May 28 09:51:30 <fiola> Anyone not blocking JS in their browser but running a firewall is playing security theater.  3rd party code that isn't even signed passing through your firewall like it's not there and running deep inside your security domain, and people allow it.  The mind boggles.
May 28 09:51:31 <ketas> write-files-to-desktop-n-sht
May 28 09:51:46 <keesj> Today's js is not like js from the 90's
May 28 09:52:05 <ketas> well why is js such a disaster?
May 28 09:52:10 <fiola> Indeed.  Today's is full of malware.
May 28 09:52:27 <mru> 90s js was mostly used to flip some images and such
May 28 09:52:28 <ketas> because noone wants to broke things?
May 28 09:52:47 <mru> you mean no one wants to _fix_ things
May 28 09:52:52 <jackmitchell> and vendor specific functionality
May 28 09:52:58 <keesj> flip and even preload sometimes
May 28 09:54:04 <mru> keesj: still, something even a toy language can manage
May 28 09:54:14 <ketas> umm
May 28 09:55:13 <ketas> http://shcp.si.pri.ee:2222/
May 28 09:55:18 <ketas> i need to interface bbb there
May 28 09:55:22 <ketas> :)
May 28 09:56:17 <LetoThe2nd> ketas: too bad, forbidden :(
May 28 09:56:48 <fiola> The problem isn't the language, the problem is the model.  15 years ago people knew not to download random 3rd party executables from the net and run them.  Today they've forgotten that sensible advice entirely.
May 28 09:57:24 <ketas> LetoThe2nd: wha?
May 28 09:57:37 <ketas> LetoThe2nd: ooh, indeed
May 28 09:57:49 <ketas> LetoThe2nd: that was http://shcp.si.pri.ee:2222/shcp
May 28 09:58:26 <mru> fiola: downloading a code snippet that replaces an image every few seconds is annoying at worst
May 28 09:58:28 <LetoThe2nd> hrhr
May 28 09:58:35 <mru> it simply wasn't dangerous back then
May 28 09:58:45 <ketas> hah, that ui actually shows why i never get job as designer
May 28 10:00:26 <fiola> mru: Whereas now sites are infested with malware and as any forensics person or pentester will tell you, client-side JS is organized crime's best friend, wide-open highway.
May 28 10:00:46 <mru> I'm not denying that
May 28 10:02:33 <KotH> ah.. js bashing day again
May 28 10:02:37 <KotH> may i join in? :)
May 28 10:03:09 <fiola> It's not JS, it's the model.  Same would apply if any language were used in the same way.
May 28 10:03:59 <mru> it got this way because the the capabilities increased gradually
May 28 10:04:18 <av500> js in browser or standalone app is all the same
May 28 10:04:29 <av500> either you sandbox it or you lose
May 28 10:04:46 <mru> sandbox the browser
May 28 10:04:55 <av500> that too
May 28 10:05:20 <fiola> av500: nope, standalone app can be verified to be the app you expect it to be.  What comes down as JS can be different code on every access.
May 28 10:06:17 <av500> your trust in virus checkers is big
May 28 10:06:41 <fiola> No trust in them at all.  I use open source.
May 28 10:07:09 <av500> good, js is mostly open :)
May 28 10:07:50 <fiola> And that's fine if it were an installed client-side app, but it's not when it's an unverifiable download that can be different on each access.
May 28 10:08:06 <fiola> See, it's not JS, it's the model.
May 28 10:08:39 <sintom> Anybody knows why reference manual says: "NOTE: Do not plug in the cable to the board until after the board is powered up." ?
May 28 10:09:01 <kfoltman> fiola: to be honest, I don't think non-JIT JS is a different class of security risk comparing to HTML as such - both are 'data' to the CPU, except one kind of data drives an interpreter and another drives a rendering engine, both can have security holes
May 28 10:09:06 <fiola> sintom: I was wondering about that.  Think it might be related to EDID
May 28 10:09:25 <av500> fiola: thats what I said
May 28 10:09:29 <sintom> EDID?
May 28 10:09:46 <av500> sintom: ignore it
May 28 10:10:27 <av500> its like windows "do not plug the device before you install the driver"
May 28 10:10:34 <av500> horrors
May 28 10:10:36 <fiola> Aye, don't think that advice made sense.  At least my BBB is happy with it being plugged in permanently
May 28 10:10:51 <av500> same here
May 28 10:10:58 <av500> you cannot ask people to replug on each boot
May 28 10:11:04 <sintom> @all: thanks :)
May 28 10:14:51 <KotH> moin kiwi
May 28 10:15:23 <mrpackethead> Kia-Jihad
May 28 10:15:50 <mrpackethead> got my first FPGA going today
May 28 10:16:05 <mrpackethead> hey, it seems like a lot of effort to flash a led thought!
May 28 10:17:11 <KotH> \o/
May 28 10:17:22 <KotH> yeah.. fpgas are not blinking-led-friendly
May 28 10:17:22 <av500> mrpackethead: where did all the cape connectors end up?
May 28 10:17:39 <av500> KotH: implement a small CPU on the fpga
May 28 10:17:39 <mrpackethead> theres a stack of them in my warehouse
May 28 10:17:41 <av500> then bitbang it
May 28 10:17:57 <mrpackethead> but the surplus got sold really quickly
May 28 10:17:57 <panto> av500, don't you bitbang it to load the bitstream anyway?
May 28 10:18:04 <av500> yeah
May 28 10:18:15 <av500> you can bitbang the bitstream to blink the led
May 28 10:18:25 <av500> load 2 differnet streams
May 28 10:18:31 <av500> one for on, one for off
May 28 10:18:38 <mrpackethead> blinking the led, was a simple way of seeing it worked
May 28 10:18:48 <mrpackethead> tommorrow, we will start to learn "how" it works
May 28 10:19:03 <mrpackethead> av500 how many do you need?
May 28 10:20:36 <fiola> kfoltman: I know what you mean, but there is a key difference.  HTML isn't a general purpose programming language so an attacker can't craft it to their will to perform random repeated operations.  And a given chunk of HTML has a simple static semantic, whereas JS's operation is of course dynamic so you'd have to deploy full program analysis to understand what it does, and that's a research topic.
May 28 10:21:02 <fiola> So they're not really similar in nature.
May 28 10:21:15 <mru> if I run this bit of js, will it ever stop?
May 28 10:21:23 <fiola> exactly
May 28 10:21:24 <av500> mrpackethead: a few
May 28 10:21:35 <av500> thats why I was reluctant to take a huge batch from you
May 28 10:21:42 <mru> see also http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/14
May 28 10:21:52 <mrpackethead> 4 ? 10?
May 28 10:22:08 <av500> I have seen problems come to a halt
May 28 10:22:12 <av500> mrpackethead: 10
May 28 10:22:34 <mru> two?
May 28 10:22:43 <av500> 16
May 28 10:23:01 <av500> aka thirteen
May 28 10:23:29 <KotH> like the 16y old girl that eloped with an old geezer?
May 28 10:28:32 <fiola> Has anyone tried a Hama 16GB microSDHC card in BBB?  (class 10)
May 28 10:28:41 <av500> it will work
May 28 10:29:44 <kfoltman> fiola: well, an implementation free of security bugs is not supposed to implement, say, loops or jumps; an implementation with security bugs may implement loops, jumps or (worst case) execution of arbitrary code. Of course, there's a big difference of likelihood of finding such catastrophic bug in a layout engine vs something that, by design, writes a chunk of data that is then meant to be executed as machine code (I mean the JIT engine) - so it's a q
May 28 10:29:44 <kfoltman> uestion of different degree of risk, just like using vs not using a firewall. If using a firewall reduces the risk of certain (likely) attacks by a considerable percentage, I don't see how it's security theatre. Nothing is 100% secure anyway.
May 28 10:30:52 <Mattzm> Hey folks, is there a expansion board (cape?) that has two RS-232 ports on it? Looking for alternatives to run an analyser in a lab. Any recommendations?
May 28 10:31:05 <av500> Mattzm: make one
May 28 10:31:07 <av500> its easy
May 28 10:31:25 <Mattzm> That was my next thought, but since I'm not paying for it, I'm happy to buy premade :p
May 28 10:32:18 <av500> well, buy premade tools
May 28 10:32:23 <av500> more fun
May 28 10:32:55 <fiola> kfoltman:  Yeah, that was a bit overstated, because a firewall will block other rubbish, it's not handling just web traffic.  But as far as web traffic is concerned, you might as well not have a firewall, it's not restricting bad code incoming as payload nor restricting comms in or out.  So AFA web is concerned, any sense of security because you have a firewall is misplaced.
May 28 10:33:05 <mru> no ToolFactoryFactoryFactoryFactoryImpl?
May 28 10:33:25 <av500> mru: is there a factory for that?
May 28 10:33:48 <kfoltman> fiola: sure (obvious/trivial attacks aside)
May 28 10:34:55 <kfoltman> anyway, after debian openssh bug, I don't think we can trust any tools to be secure
May 28 10:38:49 <fiola> kfoltman: It was caught though, because there was something static to analyse.  The big problem with web pages and the JS within them is that it's all transient.  It can even be crafted to carry an attack for one target but be verifiably cute as kittens for everyone else.
May 28 10:39:25 <fiola> Without fixed points, you can't possible assign any trust.
May 28 10:40:17 <fiola> possibly*
May 28 10:41:05 <av500> fixed points in time
May 28 10:41:16 <av500> I trust those
May 28 10:41:19 <av500> only
May 28 10:41:49 <mru> found any yet?
May 28 10:42:00 <fiola> eBay :P
May 28 10:42:06 <av500> back in 3rd grade
May 28 10:42:09 <av500> I dont talk about it
May 28 10:43:56 <panto> av500, care to lie down on the shrink couch over there?
May 28 10:48:58 <kfoltman> fiola: that probably extends to all network traffic that involves non-trivial processing; also, have you heard about that EEPROM issue of some network adapters that (IIRC) caused some network adapters to stop working when "seeing" packets with certain properties?
May 28 10:49:14 <fiola> Yeah
May 28 10:49:29 <fiola> Not to mention embedded back doors
May 28 10:50:06 <thurgood> not to mention social hacks like getting employees to reset routers for you ~.~
May 28 10:50:37 <panto> fiola, the only way to be secure is to control the s/w that run on every piece of equipment you own
May 28 10:50:41 <panto> *runs
May 28 10:50:54 <fiola> Imagine a device with a backdoor that does nothing until someone does an appropriate port knock -- easy with JS.
May 28 10:51:09 <mru> panto: and not connect it to any external network
May 28 10:51:18 <mru> better not network things internally either
May 28 10:51:29 <panto> that would make the device useless
May 28 10:51:47 <mru> my coffee machine works fine without being networked
May 28 10:51:58 <panto> mru, oh yeah
May 28 10:52:02 <backjlack> Is there a guide for setting up Ubuntu 13.04 to boot from the SD on the beaglebone black?
May 28 10:52:02 <ynezz> networked coffee smells better :p
May 28 10:52:03 <panto> not talking about those things
May 28 10:52:16 <panto> anyway, you get my point
May 28 10:52:38 <panto> which can be summarized, 'don't run $RANDOM s/w'
May 28 10:52:43 <thurgood> meh 13.04 doesn't even run right in vmware yet
May 28 10:52:51 <mru> panto: oh, sure
May 28 10:52:54 <av500> unless $RANDOM is 4
May 28 10:52:57 <ynezz> it starts with random bios
May 28 10:53:09 <av500> 4 is kinda safe
May 28 10:53:46 <mru> while [ $RANDOM != 4 ]; do :; done
May 28 10:55:04 <fiola> panto: Although that's true in absolute terms, attackers and equipment providers are generally not one and the same, so you can trust that the firmware in your NIC isn't likely to be after your credit card details.  In other words, in practice you don't need to secure everything, you just need to secure those parts that can be controlled by the attackers.  That's what makes web pages and their code an area of concern, but your NIC firmware not.
May 28 10:55:38 <ynezz> reminds me some guy from huawei
May 28 10:55:41 <SpeedEvil> Controlled by attackers, or have bugs exploitable by attackers.
May 28 10:55:50 <fiola> SpeedEvil++
May 28 10:55:53 <SpeedEvil> Whether or not those bugs are intentional features.
May 28 10:56:28 <SpeedEvil> 'Oh dear - a special frame will smash the driver stack, and overwrite memory at an address of your choosing'
May 28 10:56:47 <panto> fiola, I wouldn't trust the NIC's firmware
May 28 10:57:04 <panto> I've seen NIC vendor's firmware sources
May 28 10:57:20 <mru> are they worse than bioses?
May 28 10:57:30 <panto> mru, same level
May 28 10:57:51 <panto> my point is that the definition of hardware/firmware/software nowadays is very blurry
May 28 10:58:04 <fiola> What SpeedEvil said is important, because it means (as an example) that although you might be willing to trust IBM (.... :P), you can't actually trust their website, because it can be compromised and the JS you end up running could belong to an attacker, not to IBM.  Trust assignment is *really* hard given this model.
May 28 10:59:08 <SpeedEvil> See also activex
May 28 11:00:43 <fiola> And obviously it makes a mockery of certificates.  All they guarantee is that a known endpoint can be reliably framed by an attacker. :P
May 28 11:00:54 <av500> only trust 74xx chips you made yourself
May 28 11:02:15 <mru> an https certificate only guarantees that someone you (or your browser) have decided to trust says you're connecting to the site you think you are
May 28 11:02:19 <fiola> Jeri Ellsworth was making her own transistors, and magnetics based logic :P
May 28 11:03:46 <kfoltman> that doesn't scale too well though
May 28 11:04:13 <kfoltman> also, it's probably better to not have to rely on security anyway - like, use a credit card with low limit for online purchases
May 28 11:04:21 <fiola> The size of a cellphone made that way might be a problem :P
May 28 11:04:27 <kfoltman> so that even if you *do* get compromised, the risk is managed
May 28 11:05:28 <fiola> Same mechanism as cells in spy and crime networks, and also the same as bulkheads in ships.
May 28 11:05:33 <av500> use cash
May 28 11:05:39 <av500> hidden under your pillow
May 28 11:05:54 <LetoThe2nd> not using a pillow hidden under your cash?
May 28 11:05:58 <mru> what's the equivalent of a horse head?
May 28 11:06:11 <fiola> Sony root kit
May 28 11:06:47 <fiola> It certainly sent a message
May 28 11:07:01 <mru> speaking of root kits, http://ipcommission.org/report/IP_Commission_Report_052213.pdf
May 28 11:07:11 <mru> page 81
May 28 11:08:24 <fiola> And this -- http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/27/046225/us-entertainment-industry-to-congress-make-it-legal-for-us-to-deploy-rootkits
May 28 11:08:55 <av500> same
May 28 11:09:07 <fiola> Mind boggles, huh.  How detached from reality can they be.
May 28 11:09:17 <av500> detached?
May 28 11:09:20 <av500> root kits are real
May 28 11:09:23 <av500> they work
May 28 11:10:25 <fiola> The reality from which they're detached is the ethics of doing that, or even considering it, let alone asking that it be legalized.
May 28 11:10:59 <av500> ethics?
May 28 11:11:05 <av500> you lost me :)
May 28 11:11:49 <mdp> I failed that corporate training course
May 28 11:11:52 <mdp> how does it work?
May 28 11:12:30 <biot> mdp: that IIO GSoC project that was accepted, that's not the one that involved sigrok, right?
May 28 11:13:06 <mdp> biot, correct
May 28 11:13:12 <mru> av500: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100150/quotes?item=qt0364717
May 28 11:13:21 <biot> shame
May 28 11:13:29 <kfoltman> fiola: what sort of message did it send, "We're sony and we can do anything and get away with it"?
May 28 11:13:52 <kfoltman> AFAIK they didn't get anything more than slap on a wrist
May 28 11:14:38 <panto> ok, I will need some reviewers for the writeup of the 3.8 and DT and beaglebone I'm writing
May 28 11:14:42 <panto> any volunteers?
May 28 11:14:44 <kfoltman> I mean, if I did what they did, I'd probably be in jail
May 28 11:14:55 <mru> too big to jail
May 28 11:14:56 <mdp> panto, another press release?
May 28 11:15:16 <av500> panto: sure
May 28 11:15:22 <av500> dont ask to ask to review
May 28 11:15:26 <panto> mdp, no, just got tired of looking at misinformation and hearsay
May 28 11:15:29 <av500> just paste the url
May 28 11:15:37 <mru> heresy
May 28 11:15:42 <thurgood> what's this.. the time they bricked a bunch of macs in the nameof copy protection?
May 28 11:15:45 <panto> parsley
May 28 11:15:47 <mdp> panto, I will review then write a conflicting blog entry ;)
May 28 11:15:52 <av500> thurgood: just macs
May 28 11:15:56 <fiola> kfoltman: It sent the message "Boycott us please", which is what umpteen thousands of techies did, and still do to this day, myself included.  Of course it's a drop in the ocean, but can't be helped, only techies realized what was being done.  As av500 said a little while back, "Vote with your wallet".  We do.
May 28 11:16:08 <mru> mdp: +1
May 28 11:16:09 <av500> Sony shrugs
May 28 11:16:21 <panto> just accept it ppl, us techies are an insignificant minority
May 28 11:16:26 <panto> they don't care about what we do
May 28 11:16:27 <mru> I happen to like sony hardware
May 28 11:16:28 <av500> panto: I will kang it
May 28 11:16:41 <panto> av500, oh chad you
May 28 11:16:46 <mdp> heh
May 28 11:16:47 <kfoltman> fiola: Well, me too - to this day. I was tempted to buy their phones lately, but - no, sorry, it's Sony. I tell all the friends to not buy Sony and why not - of course, many don't listen.
May 28 11:16:54 <av500> I'll slap it behind a paywall and get effin' rich
May 28 11:17:08 <mru> kfoltman: different sony
May 28 11:17:13 * mdp joins av500's private community of exact steps
May 28 11:17:16 <mru> it was sony music that did the rootkit
May 28 11:17:18 <av500> thats phony sony
May 28 11:17:25 <LetoThe2nd> av500: remember to donate some beers in case of unavoidable richness on your side.
May 28 11:17:31 <av500> I will
May 28 11:17:36 <av500> palette Karlskrone
May 28 11:17:44 <LetoThe2nd> i said "beer"
May 28 11:17:45 <thurgood> the hydra has many heads :P
May 28 11:17:57 <kfoltman> mru: it's still one organization, and the music publisher part has its tentacles all over the tech side
May 28 11:18:03 <av500> omg
May 28 11:18:06 <kfoltman> mru: see also, minidisc
May 28 11:18:12 <fiola> kfoltman:  It's not just on purchases for oneself, they've been missing out on loads of presents purchased for others at Xmas time too.  It all adds up.
May 28 11:18:12 <av500> DCC ftw!
May 28 11:18:33 <av500> sony electronics is dying anyway
May 28 11:18:42 * LetoThe2nd admits he did not hear the "conspiracy time" bell ring.
May 28 11:18:42 <kfoltman> grumpycatgood.jpg
May 28 11:18:43 <av500> its a bank with a record label and a movie studio
May 28 11:19:16 <av500> so I I hope the have frickin' good elevator music
May 28 11:19:35 <LetoThe2nd> iron maiden or such.
May 28 11:19:47 <mru> the death of sony has been heralded for a long time now
May 28 11:20:17 <av500> apart from maybe a TV, I dont know what to buy from Sony
May 28 11:20:33 <Russ> my new vaio is doing pretty good
May 28 11:20:40 <mru> same here
May 28 11:20:46 <mru> the previous one was nice too
May 28 11:20:49 <thurgood> blueray players.. playstation... every blueray movie you buy
May 28 11:20:55 <mru> ps3 is pretty good
May 28 11:21:28 <mru> Russ: which one did you get?
May 28 11:21:30 <LetoThe2nd> ps3 was the first affordable BR player that would not bury you in an outdated-firmware hole.
May 28 11:21:39 <kfoltman> thurgood: what's blueray? what's movie?
May 28 11:21:47 <thurgood> \lol
May 28 11:21:50 <av500> talkies
May 28 11:21:55 <av500> overrated
May 28 11:22:09 <thurgood> damned whippersnappers
May 28 11:22:17 <Russ> VPCSE190X
May 28 11:23:03 <av500> thats not a laptop
May 28 11:23:06 <av500> thats a space station
May 28 11:23:10 <thurgood> isn't the ps4 abandoning cell?
May 28 11:23:16 <av500> it is
May 28 11:23:18 <mru> thurgood: yes, so?
May 28 11:23:29 <Russ> its the bond product placement laptop
May 28 11:23:30 <fiola> kfoltman: A movie is like a desktop, but it doesn't let you focus and changes the GUI theme once a frame.
May 28 11:23:31 <thurgood> just interesting to me :P
May 28 11:24:07 <kfoltman> fiola: I don't see how anyone would want to use one then :P
May 28 11:24:08 <av500> fiola: ah, like ubuntu
May 28 11:24:15 <fiola> Haha
May 28 11:24:44 <mru> Russ: you fell for that trick?
May 28 11:24:51 <Russ> naw, it was before the movie
May 28 11:25:14 <mru> so you're some kind of precog?
May 28 11:25:25 <Russ> but during the movie, it became annoying obvious how everyone has the same laptop
May 28 11:26:32 <mru> still not as bad as microsoft product placement
May 28 11:26:36 <thurgood> mybe they only had a budget for one :P
May 28 11:28:14 <av500> http://people.debian.org/~stapelberg/2013/05/27/systemd-survey-results.html
May 28 11:28:24 <jackmitchell> I have a Sony TV, and they're still releasing software updates for it, and it's over a year old; that's better than most manufacturers
May 28 11:28:27 <KotH> fiola: back in the days of old, mplayer developers ran movies as root windows on their desktops
May 28 11:29:21 <KotH> jackmitchell: i remember a time, when your tv didnt need firmware updates and still worked flawlesly
May 28 11:29:25 <av500> +1
May 28 11:29:43 <fiola> I'm often wanted to run a 3D graphic as a root window, don't know how to set that up though.
May 28 11:29:52 <jackmitchell> yeah, I also remember a time when e didn't have built in iPlayer
May 28 11:30:07 <av500> iwat?
May 28 11:30:17 <KotH> i-it's-not-an-archos
May 28 11:30:28 <av500> icrap
May 28 11:30:43 <jackmitchell> BBC over-air catch-up service essentially
May 28 11:30:46 <av500> ah
May 28 11:31:11 <Russ> heh, they actually have a 'I have a problem with systemd upstream and/or Lennart in particular' bucket
May 28 11:33:04 <KotH> Russ: "they"?
May 28 11:33:42 <av500> it's a constipacy
May 28 11:33:43 <keesj> av500: nice overview for the systemd stuff
May 28 11:33:50 <av500> yw
May 28 11:35:14 <SpeedEvil> jackmitchell: 'e diddn't' ?
May 28 11:37:44 <Russ> KotH, sorry, stapelberg
May 28 11:38:21 <thurgood> my mac has a folder for most of the apps that come preloaded on OSX ... it's titled iCrap
May 28 11:39:33 <KotH> Russ: ah...
May 28 11:39:47 * KotH isnt following av500's ramblings too closely while at work
May 28 11:39:59 <thurgood> how did itunes ever become such a popular player... it sucks
May 28 11:40:16 <KotH> thurgood: it got shipped with ipods
May 28 11:40:22 <thurgood> yeah
May 28 11:40:24 <KotH> thurgood: and people got used to it
May 28 11:40:25 <thurgood> ...
May 28 11:40:32 <KotH> thurgood: it's like ... beer
May 28 11:40:45 <av500> ipods ship with beer?
May 28 11:40:50 * av500 runs to the store
May 28 11:40:55 <thurgood> even free bud lite is still bud lite
May 28 11:40:55 <KotH> it has an awfull taste, makes you fat, but people still drink it
May 28 11:41:30 <KotH> if you dont know there are other drinks, that are better, why would you care?
May 28 11:41:33 <thurgood> bad beer is an american myth :P
May 28 11:41:49 <KotH> beer is an american myth
May 28 11:41:54 <av500> nah
May 28 11:42:07 <av500> america has nothing to do with beer
May 28 11:44:24 <fiola> av500: Re that systemd survey you linked, when he wrote "We, the systemd Debian maintainers, will try to come up with good answers to all listed concerns and communicate them", did you understand that to mean "We fill fix them" or "We will explain them away"?
May 28 11:44:25 <mru> don't confuse bbc's iplayer for something apple
May 28 11:44:41 <fiola> will* fix
May 28 11:45:08 <av500> fiola: geez, no idea
May 28 11:45:08 <mru> "we will tell you you're wrong and ignore you"
May 28 11:46:00 <fiola> Asking in case Debian maintainers have a history, one way or another.  I don't know them.
May 28 11:46:14 <av500> mru: I think that is straight from the GPL
May 28 11:46:28 <mru> anyone running a survey like that obviously as a pro-lennart agenda
May 28 11:46:40 <mru> *has
May 28 11:47:09 <thurgood> anyone running such a survey knows that there's lots of opposition
May 28 11:47:21 <av500> surveys for everybody
May 28 11:47:32 <mru> thurgood: and is hell-bent on ignoring it
May 28 11:47:39 <mru> surveys are pure theatre
May 28 11:47:41 <mru> always were
May 28 11:47:58 <thurgood> not necessarily ignoring, but getting out there and minimizing
May 28 11:48:10 <mru> "some concerns were raised, but we decided they were not relevant and will proceed as planned"
May 28 11:48:21 <thurgood> lol
May 28 11:48:38 <mru> if I had a penny for every time I've heard words to that effect...
May 28 11:50:14 <fiola> A straight read, up until the point of "will try to come up with good answers" sounded encouraging.  After all, they listed a very severe set of concerns.  Hard to see how they can shrug them off entirely.  But the "good answers" worried me, because it could mean talk, not fix.
May 28 11:50:18 <KotH> mru: you'd have a swiss bank account?
May 28 11:50:38 <mru> I'd have _all_ the swiss bank accounts
May 28 11:51:20 <mru> fiola: I have some good answers for you
May 28 11:51:23 <mru> "you're doing it wrong"
May 28 11:51:26 <mru> "this is the modern way"
May 28 11:51:29 <mru> "it works for me"
May 28 11:51:38 <koen> "didn't do that in testing"
May 28 11:51:43 <mru> "nobody uses such configurations any more"
May 28 11:51:54 <mru> "are you against progress?"
May 28 11:52:39 <fiola> mru: Such answers are not answering the explicitly ranked concerns.  They'd be roasted for it.
May 28 11:52:57 <mru> I've seen this before
May 28 11:53:01 <mru> it's how it will go down
May 28 11:53:13 <fiola> Hope not :-(
May 28 11:53:23 <mru> I'm rarely wrong
May 28 11:54:24 <Russ> oh noes!
May 28 11:54:34 <KotH> fiola: believe mru
May 28 11:54:38 <KotH> fiola: he _is_ rarely wrong
May 28 11:54:52 <fiola> More topically though, Angstrom should get off systemd until it's fixed, a good year from now.  The old init wasn't broken.
May 28 11:54:55 <Russ> at this point, I'm happy so long as debian doesn't move to upstart
May 28 11:55:11 <Russ> fiola, any bug in paticular?
May 28 11:55:32 <mru> Russ: ah, the good old appeal to threat of something worse
May 28 11:55:49 <Russ> yes, just frame the discussion as a choice between upstart and systemd
May 28 11:56:17 <fiola> Russ: all those concerns mentioned in av500's linked survey, plus added to it all the breakage in BBB's current systemd, discussed here extensively.
May 28 11:56:36 <koen> fiola: did you actually use the init system angstrom used before systemd?
May 28 11:56:49 <Russ> fiola, do you have links to any specific bug numbers?
May 28 11:56:53 <thurgood> heh
May 28 11:57:13 <Russ> yes, I do like how we can all pretend that sysvinit was perfect
May 28 11:57:16 <Russ> was/is
May 28 11:57:26 <thurgood> my only real complaint is I was used to the previous system
May 28 11:57:53 <thurgood> while legitimate it's not a reason to avoid change
May 28 11:57:55 <mru> the redhat-style S10foo scripts are fragile
May 28 11:58:03 <mru> but that's not the only way to use sysvinit
May 28 11:58:07 <fiola> koen: No, but I'm assuming it was inittab-based and hence worked as well as in all other distros, which ranks close to "very good".  If it wasn't inittab-based then it was a bad assumption.
May 28 11:58:28 <koen> fiola: it was inittab and sysvinit based, but it didn't work well
May 28 11:58:34 <mru> openrc as used in gentoo is a very nice init system
May 28 11:58:46 <koen> fiola: the infrastructure scripts we a mess and buggy
May 28 11:59:16 <thurgood> butit's still fun to complain :P
May 28 11:59:21 <koen> fiola: everyone tried to special case their embedded board
May 28 11:59:53 <koen> but hey
May 28 11:59:56 <fiola> I like OpenRC, but I don't want to advocate for it because I'm a Gentoo user, hence maybe biased.  But I would advocate for inittab simply because it's simple and on all distros I've used, fault-free.
May 28 11:59:58 <koen> it's "inittab based"
May 28 12:00:07 <koen> so according to you that can't be screwed up
May 28 12:00:13 <KotH> lol
May 28 12:00:33 * KotH hands koen a piece of 99% chocolate
May 28 12:00:36 <KotH> you've earned it :)
May 28 12:00:39 <koen> thanks!
May 28 12:00:46 <av500> dont forget: www.initng.org/‎
May 28 12:00:50 <av500> my NAS uses it
May 28 12:00:53 <koen> I use the last of the 70+ chocolate to line the crust of the pear tart
May 28 12:00:53 <av500> it must be good
May 28 12:01:04 <av500> you wasted it
May 28 12:01:27 <fiola> Oh, anything can be screwed up, lol. :P  But no other distros (that I've used) screw up inittab, so unless you know of a good reason, it should have worked in Angstrom too.
May 28 12:01:41 <av500> fiola: it did not
May 28 12:01:44 <koen> inittab is not the problem
May 28 12:01:46 <koen> the initscripts are
May 28 12:02:02 <mru> so to fix the init scripts, you toss out inittab
May 28 12:02:06 <mru> make perfect sense
May 28 12:02:09 <mru> +s
May 28 12:02:10 <fiola> Hahaha
May 28 12:02:20 <fiola> mru++
May 28 12:02:21 <av500> mru: kill the problem at the root :)
May 28 12:02:46 <backjlack> I thought this channel was about beagleboards. It seems I was wrong.
May 28 12:02:49 <koen> mru: at that time fixing the initscripts was't possible due to the usual TI bullshit
May 28 12:02:57 <koen> the loophole was to completely ignore them
May 28 12:03:08 <koen> happy ever since
May 28 12:03:45 <fiola> koen: I'm not acquainted with any TI issues that could affect init scripts.  How can they have any impact on noddy shell scripts?
May 28 12:04:21 <av500> fiola: inittab support in angstrom is still there
May 28 12:04:32 <av500> just unmaintained
May 28 12:04:36 <fiola> kk
May 28 12:04:37 <av500> if you want to, go ahead
May 28 12:04:48 <koen> fiola: not being allowed to fix things being one
May 28 12:04:48 <KotH> backjlack: nah.. this channel is about guns, beer and chocolate
May 28 12:05:03 <koen> fiola: and are you sure you aren't confusing connman and systemd issues?
May 28 12:05:14 <koen> most problems I hear about are connman related
May 28 12:05:19 <Russ> bah, silly inittab
May 28 12:05:31 <av500> koen: both use dbus
May 28 12:05:39 <av500> there, common culprit
May 28 12:05:42 <thurgood> backjlack: systemv/d and angstrom are actually fairly on topic
May 28 12:05:51 <av500> arg, kernel will get dbus too
May 28 12:05:55 <av500> we need to kill kernel
May 28 12:06:10 <keesj> that's what the debian maintainers need to do. get the sysV init people to give up and not longer maintains their stuff
May 28 12:06:14 * av500 adds v4l2 drivers to uboot
May 28 12:06:18 <mru> thurgood: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/146
May 28 12:06:39 <av500> keesj: ?
May 28 12:06:40 <thurgood> lol
May 28 12:06:57 <dm8tbr> av500: while you're at it, 3D accelerated boot prompt too, please
May 28 12:07:11 <keesj> having something not maintained is a good way to get people to switch
May 28 12:07:12 <backjlack> What exactly has to be done to make the Beaglebone Black boot from the uSD?
May 28 12:07:15 <av500> promptly
May 28 12:07:24 <av500> backjlack: not much
May 28 12:07:27 <av500> press the button
May 28 12:07:28 <koen> backjlack: insert a uSD card, apply power
May 28 12:07:29 <dm8tbr> backjlack: press a button
May 28 12:07:33 <av500> or make it not boot from emmc
May 28 12:07:40 <thurgood> set up the card properly
May 28 12:07:49 <fiola> koen: I don't know which part of the puzzle is to blame there, connman or systemd.  But having chosen to go the systemd route, despite the huge raft of problems that that survey highlights, you've put fixing it on your plate.  And that's a lot of work.  I wouldn't like to be in your shoes. :-(
May 28 12:07:51 <dm8tbr> yup, kill MLO on the eMMC and it will try SD next
May 28 12:07:54 <mru> keesj: so then you make sure to increase the maintenance burden to the point where your opponent can no longer keep up
May 28 12:08:16 <Rickta59> sounds like microsoft's policy mru
May 28 12:08:23 <mru> and lennart's
May 28 12:08:25 <backjlack> Ideally, I'd set it up to boot only from the SD. I'd rather not touch the embedded MMC at all.
May 28 12:08:26 <koen> fiola: every systemd bug I report upstream is fixed within hours
May 28 12:08:40 <koen> fiola: with the exception of one bug that is hard to reproduce
May 28 12:08:49 <dm8tbr> backjlack: just kill MLO on the emmc then
May 28 12:08:51 <av500> backjlack: kill MLO
May 28 12:08:57 <av500> by happy ever after
May 28 12:08:59 <koen> fiola: so if you encounter a bug, report it to the systemd people
May 28 12:09:04 <mru> koen: evidently you've learned which bugs are worth the effort to report
May 28 12:09:25 <thurgood> backjlack: have you ever configured an sd to boot a beagle product before?
May 28 12:09:31 <mru> possibly subconsciously
May 28 12:09:55 <thurgood> there's a little more to it than jst kill MLO on the eMMC
May 28 12:10:04 <backjlack> thurgood: No, I'm waiting for it to get delivered to me, but that seems to take 2-3 days so I have time to prepare everything else.
May 28 12:10:16 <av500> thurgood: not just kill MLO, draw and quarter it
May 28 12:10:48 <av500> burn it and spread the ashes wide
May 28 12:10:53 <av500> only way to make sure
May 28 12:11:00 <ketas> just nicely rename it
May 28 12:11:04 <KotH> av500: nuke it from orbit?
May 28 12:11:09 <ketas> be nice to mlos
May 28 12:11:15 <av500> into 20 pieces
May 28 12:11:24 <fiola> koen: Can't report the systemd breakage in Angstrom to systemd people.  It's for you to fix.  It's clear that it hasn't even been tested, you can't even run "status" on the services.
May 28 12:11:25 <av500> then gerald sends you a new one
May 28 12:12:08 <av500> systemctl status dev-mqueue.mount
May 28 12:12:14 <av500> works here
May 28 12:12:29 <koen> fiola: http://hastebin.com/cigejidibi.coffee ?
May 28 12:12:51 <av500> koen: see, the colors are all wrong
May 28 12:13:03 <koen> fiola: and of course you can report systemd breakage to systemd people, that's what they are for
May 28 12:14:08 <fiola> Well I now understand why mru reckons that the systemd people will actually ignore all the complaints.  It's in evidence right here too.  Everything is fine.
May 28 12:14:23 <thurgood> ... sigh
May 28 12:14:34 <koen> fiola: have you actually tried to report anything yet?
May 28 12:14:49 <koen> fiola: all I see if you handwaving
May 28 12:15:46 <thurgood> koen probably has more experience with the issue than most everyone in this channel,, at least as it pertains to angstrom
May 28 12:16:11 <fiola> Only here in the channel, as I received the BBB and one thing or another didn't work.  But it's no secret, lots of people have been reporting init breakage, like ntpdate not working despite being enabled in systemd.
May 28 12:17:45 <koen> root@beaglebone:~# /usr/bin/ntpdate-sync
May 28 12:17:45 <koen> Please set NTPSERVERS in /etc/default/ntpdate
May 28 12:17:54 <koen> now explain how that is a systemd problem?
May 28 12:18:03 <mru> wtf is with this /etc/default anyway?
May 28 12:18:12 <koen> mru: debianism
May 28 12:18:15 <dm8tbr> isn't that a debianism?
May 28 12:18:29 <mru> isn't that the purpose of /etc in the first place?
May 28 12:18:47 <mru> system-wide settings
May 28 12:19:07 <dm8tbr> as far as I've understood it, it's about changing the behaviour of init scripts without editing them
May 28 12:19:32 <mru> strange name then
May 28 12:19:41 <XorA> /etc/default tends to be arguments for /etc/init.d/* scripts
May 28 12:19:51 <dm8tbr> or getting sourced by them
May 28 12:20:05 <mru> ok, the mechanism makes sense
May 28 12:20:07 <mru> the name does not
May 28 12:20:12 * dm8tbr agrees
May 28 12:20:14 <fiola> dm8tbr: That's how it should be, indeed.  Keep data and code separate, init scripts should never need to be hacked for config.
May 28 12:20:48 <dm8tbr> but any serious config shouldn't be in neither the init script nor the defaults file
May 28 12:21:16 <av500> hardcoded in C?
May 28 12:21:24 <av500> or in a registry?
May 28 12:21:31 <panto> DT
May 28 12:21:39 <dm8tbr> av500: bitbanged into /dev/mem
May 28 12:21:46 <av500> all of the above
May 28 12:23:02 <dm8tbr> ah, yes, the good old days, where options were set in a 'config.c' and baked in at compile time...
May 28 12:23:21 <av500> config.h please
May 28 12:23:26 <av500> thus a full recompile :)
May 28 12:23:35 <Rickta59> those were better times .. you just got code from the vendor to stuff into your bsd kernel for new devices
May 28 12:23:48 <fiola> Gentoo gets it done quite cleanly, with the /etc/init.d/XX scripts separate from the corresponding /etc/conf.d/XX data, which is usually in the form of env/var definitions.  It's simple, and efficient enough.
May 28 12:23:51 <mru> or better yet, both .c and .h, and you have to edit both so they match
May 28 12:24:00 <mru> and they ship with mismatched settings
May 28 12:24:44 <dm8tbr> which leads to non-deterministic behaviour as the values are once used from .c and once from .h
May 28 12:24:52 <dm8tbr> aka heisen-bugs
May 28 12:27:34 <Rickta59> what are you going to do with your BBB fiola ?
May 28 12:28:01 <fiola> Play with PRUs, very cool part of the SoC.  No applications yet.
May 28 12:28:41 <fiola> Getting several, it's the best embedded board around currently.
May 28 12:29:11 <KotH> dm8tbr: if that is already an heisenbug, what do you call a bug that is really linked to the quantum state of some system?
May 28 12:29:41 <dm8tbr> KotH: are you aware of 'real world implementations' of such?
May 28 12:29:51 <mru> KotH: hopefully somebody else's problem
May 28 12:31:17 <KotH> dm8tbr: modern optical atomic clocks? :)
May 28 12:31:48 <av500> fiola: look at the "systemd on PRU" GSoC project then
May 28 12:31:59 <fiola> Rickta59: Are you running a BSD on BBB?  I've run various flavours over the years on and off, would be nice to get one onto BBB.
May 28 12:32:10 <Rickta59> heh .. no
May 28 12:32:19 <KotH> fiola: there is *bsd for arm?
May 28 12:32:25 <av500> yes
May 28 12:32:33 <av500> its mostly C code
May 28 12:32:37 <av500> why should it not run?
May 28 12:32:38 <mru> KotH: nothing new
May 28 12:32:46 <dm8tbr> someone was even working on Darwin for ARM
May 28 12:32:53 <av500> all this X on Y is so boring
May 28 12:32:59 <dm8tbr> as in a open source version
May 28 12:33:00 <mru> netbsd has always prided itself of running on just about anything
May 28 12:33:07 <fiola> yep
May 28 12:33:15 <av500> CPUs run SW
May 28 12:33:18 <av500> film at 11
May 28 12:34:03 <KotH> av500: not at 8? :)
May 28 12:36:22 * mdp waits for 11
May 28 12:38:40 <jacekowski> dm8tbr: well, iOS is darwin for arm
May 28 12:38:54 <dm8tbr> jacekowski: 12:32:59< dm8tbr> as in a open source version
May 28 12:39:01 <mdp> av500, I saw a video where koen ported gti to BeagleBone even
May 28 12:40:59 <koen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9HaFRZaFkI
May 28 12:41:08 <mru> koen: how very nice of you to mock people on g+ like that
May 28 12:41:45 <mru> fiola: https://plus.google.com/u/0/100242854243155306943/posts/dDAwHbSB6HE
May 28 12:42:26 <koen> I'm still hearing crickets as an answer to my question
May 28 12:42:39 <mru> that's beside the point
May 28 12:42:46 <fiola> koen: Nice to see you behaving like a child.
May 28 12:42:47 * georgem hides
May 28 12:43:10 <mru> getting mocked in public is surely going to encourage people to report bugs
May 28 12:43:24 <mru> fiola: typical of the systemd mafia
May 28 12:43:30 <av500> lol
May 28 12:43:52 <mdp> you just made the list, mru
May 28 12:43:56 <georgem> <--- part of the systemd mafia
May 28 12:44:17 <mru> mdp: what list?
May 28 12:44:25 <mdp> The List(tm)
May 28 12:44:50 <av500> first rule of the list is....
May 28 12:45:43 <georgem> heh
May 28 12:46:05 <av500> a wild jkridner|afk appears
May 28 12:46:10 <av500> or is it a bot?
May 28 12:46:11 <mdp> heh
May 28 12:46:18 <KotH> his alterego
May 28 12:46:23 <fiola> koen: For the bugs mentioned in passing here by myself and others over several days, read the logs.  For future bugs I come across when I get my next BBB, instead of fixing them as I've been doing, I'll do as you require, and report them for you to fix.  Where would you like the bug reports?
May 28 12:49:04 <koen> in the location specified by the upstream projects
May 28 12:52:01 <fiola> Bug reports for bugs in BBB's Angstrom should be sent to everywhere except the Angstrom/BBB maintainers, is that your official position?
May 28 12:52:18 <koen> 14:49 < koen> in the location specified by the upstream projects
May 28 12:53:09 <Guser> could anyone reference me to the BBB pin-header schematics? i can't seem to find them anywhere :-\
May 28 12:53:13 <fiola> Well I think the response speaks for itself.
May 28 12:53:24 <Rickta59> in the Service Reference Manual Guser
May 28 12:55:50 <georgem> Too much excitement for 7:55am after a Holiday weekend
May 28 12:56:14 <Guser> Thanks Rickta58, but I was looking for a simpler image, I've seen it somehwere and I can't find it now. it was a collection of jpegs describing the pins with colors.
May 28 12:56:33 <Guser> *Rickta59
May 28 12:56:35 <Rickta59> you want pinouts?
May 28 12:56:42 <Rickta59> or real schematics?
May 28 12:56:48 <Guser> pinouts I suppose
May 28 12:57:19 <dwery> panto, koen: given that my cape conflicts with HDMI (audio), what's the correct way to handle the thing so that video can be retained?
May 28 12:57:50 <panto> dwery, you need video only?
May 28 12:58:17 <dwery> panto: I need SPI, so audio is out of the equation. Video can be saved
May 28 12:58:24 <dwery> (I hope)
May 28 12:58:29 <fiola> http://beagleboard.org/static/images/cape-headers-pwm.png
May 28 12:58:50 <Guser> ty fiola
May 28 12:59:38 <panto> dwery, the easiest way would be to edit the boneblack*hdmi*.dts file in firmware/capes
May 28 12:59:53 <av500> fiola: what do you expect from a bugreport on e.g. NTP sent to koen?
May 28 12:59:54 <panto> and remove the audio fragments (along with their pins)
May 28 13:00:08 <av500> fiola: koen to proxy it for you to NTP?
May 28 13:00:11 <dwery> panto: sure, but I would like to avoid to ask my customers to do that :)
May 28 13:00:47 <panto> dwery, ok, make the changes to the *hdmi*.dts file
May 28 13:00:54 <panto> save it with a different name
May 28 13:00:57 <jackmitchell> dwery: pre-edit it and send it directly to them?
May 28 13:01:05 <koen> working ntp config would involve CCO buying a vendor zone
May 28 13:01:12 <dwery> jackmitchell: you never did customer support, right? :D
May 28 13:01:15 <panto> compile it, and on the kernel command line disable the original
May 28 13:01:24 <koen> since using pool.ntp.org in a commercial item isn't allowed
May 28 13:01:26 <panto> and override the modified one
May 28 13:01:34 <koen> neither is using the *.angstrom.pool.ntp.org pool
May 28 13:01:36 <fiola> av500: nothing to do with NTP, but to do with its installation on the BBB.  The NTP packages themselves are the exact same ones that run on Gentoo and everywhere else.  That's why reporting such bugs upstream is utter nonsense, and koen knows it full well.
May 28 13:02:12 <koen> they aren't the exact same
May 28 13:02:13 <jackmitchell> dwery: they won't don't let me near customers, I might be able to provide insightful and correct answers
May 28 13:02:26 <koen> and they are maintained in oe-core, so that would be the upstream for it
May 28 13:02:36 <dwery> panto: I would like something that can be included with the stock angstrom and avoid any user intervention
May 28 13:02:38 <dwery> jackmitchell: :)
May 28 13:02:53 <koen> if they were the exact same, gentoo would have an /etc/default/ntpdate
May 28 13:03:20 <jackmitchell> dwery: you could rebuild angstrom and ship your custom version with extra dts files?
May 28 13:03:31 <dwery> panto: can the stock *hdmi* files be sliptted in audio and video parts?
May 28 13:03:43 <av500> koen: how does rpi do ntp?
May 28 13:03:55 <panto> dwery, not easily
May 28 13:04:03 <dwery> jackmitchell: that would require me to keep my version up to date with upstream
May 28 13:04:17 <dwery> panto: what if I add the video part to my cape's dts?
May 28 13:05:23 <koen> av500: rpi doesn't ship an OS
May 28 13:05:40 <av500> that would solve fiola's issue too :)
May 28 13:06:43 <panto> dwery, you can do that too
May 28 13:07:09 <Rickta59> so really the solution to all these problems is just eliminate the buyers .. go right to the root of the problem
May 28 13:07:28 <av500> yes
May 28 13:07:42 <Rickta59> i think i'll send that suggestion to TI
May 28 13:07:45 <av500> #beagle was such a nice place when only the alpha testers had BBBs
May 28 13:07:55 <av500> Rickta59: they actively work on that
May 28 13:07:57 <jkridner> av500: :-)
May 28 13:07:59 <av500> see omap
May 28 13:08:11 <dwery> panto:  ok, I think I'll follow that way. capemgr detects the conflict so cape-boneblack-hdmi-00A0.dtbo is refused. I have to understand why cape-bone-2g-emmc1.dtbo doesn't load too
May 28 13:08:12 <panto> if your cape grabs the lcdc pins the normal hdmi cape won't load
May 28 13:08:24 <dwery> panto: only spi
May 28 13:08:27 <Rickta59> is that really something to smile at jkridner ?
May 28 13:09:05 <panto> the conflict is displayed on the kernel log
May 28 13:09:10 <dwery> panto:  Requesting firmware 'cape-bone-2g-emmc1.dtbo'... Failed to resolve tre
May 28 13:09:36 <panto> paste the dts/s
May 28 13:09:42 <panto> and kernel log
May 28 13:09:50 <jkridner> Rickta59: can't hurt to try to put a smile on. sorry if it seemed rude.
May 28 13:09:50 <panto> something is not right
May 28 13:10:14 <dwery> panto: k. let me try to boot without my cape to be sure it's an issue with that and not with kernel/drivers/dts
May 28 13:10:26 <Rickta59> i think the level of abuse new users to the BBB take in here is appalling
May 28 13:10:51 <fiola> jkridner: Noticed that chapter 4 appeared on Github in the PRU section, thanks :-)
May 28 13:11:00 * georgem gives Rickta59 a hug
May 28 13:12:07 <jackmitchell> Rickta59: I think you're mistaking abuse for users expecting paid style support when they have obviously done no googling, or background reading; with a legitimate question, a legitimate answer usually follows
May 28 13:12:21 <Rickta59> no i tihnk abuse is the right word
May 28 13:12:27 <jackmitchell> q: how do I use GPIO
May 28 13:12:32 <jackmitchell> a: please use google
May 28 13:12:39 <Rickta59> i'm not takling about that
May 28 13:12:40 <jackmitchell> that is not abuse.
May 28 13:12:45 <av500> google has no GPIO button
May 28 13:13:15 <dwery> panto: http://pastebin.com/43C8u9Vt I'm booting from Sd
May 28 13:13:46 <dwery> panto: http://pastebin.com/pB5m2TyM slots
May 28 13:14:27 <fiola> Rickta59: It's a social thing on this channel, peergroup reinforcement.  Not new to BBB at all, was the same at least since BB white days.  It's not unusual on IRC by a long shot, but since it's the official Beagleboard.org IRC support channel, it really would be more professional to tone it down a little.
May 28 13:14:54 <dwery> panto: kernel is panto-for-rebase-3.8 + a couple of changes to CAN drivers
May 28 13:14:54 <Rickta59> exactly .. "official Beagleboard.org IRC support channel"
May 28 13:15:18 <av500> official how?
May 28 13:15:34 <koen> did beagleboard.org sell you the board?
May 28 13:15:38 <Rickta59> because they redirect you here from their website
May 28 13:15:43 <koen> or did digikey/farnell/etc sell you it?
May 28 13:15:59 <jkridner> fiola, Rickta59: the only guy paid to support here is me... and I'm not paid enough to be on here 24 hours a day, but I try to show up a few hours every business day.
May 28 13:16:17 <Rickta59> no mtte what i say here you are going to all be dicks
May 28 13:16:24 <jkridner> well, i guess that isn't entirely true... cco guys are also paid.
May 28 13:16:34 <koen> not for support
May 28 13:17:06 <fiola> jkridner: would you advocate that the channel maintain some kind of professional decorum, or at least politeness, or that they ridicule BBB newcomers?
May 28 13:17:13 <dwery> jkridner: speaking of support... :D to whom should I report a couple of issues to the SRM?
May 28 13:17:23 <av500> dwery: mailing list, cc gerald
May 28 13:17:40 <dwery> av500: is he on irc too?
May 28 13:17:43 <av500> nope
May 28 13:17:49 <av500> he needs to work
May 28 13:17:56 <jkridner> it would be preferred, but the folks that do answer real questions here that *aren't* always professional in their tone still add value.  perhaps a channel split?
May 28 13:17:57 <av500> as in "real work"
May 28 13:18:09 <av500> jkridner: right
May 28 13:18:13 <av500> like phorum sections
May 28 13:18:23 <av500> make it like 5 channels
May 28 13:18:43 <av500> with 4 having tumbleweed
May 28 13:19:11 <thurgood> if you split the channel the trolls would still have most of the answers
May 28 13:19:15 <jackmitchell> we are certainly terrible people, giving up our own time to help people; but we could have a beagle-official? Where jkridner spends a cpuple of hours a day in, otherwise you have to come back in here...
May 28 13:19:16 <XorA> would be cheaper just to send koen to coffee shop to work ;-)
May 28 13:19:19 <jkridner> the point at which this channel becomes more bickering than getting answers, change would need to happen.
May 28 13:19:29 <Rickta59> it doesn't take long to figure out which things are confusing people
May 28 13:19:32 <thurgood> you could have a very lovely time asking questions without answers though
May 28 13:19:32 <jkridner> a few /kicks might help, but probably not long.
May 28 13:19:33 <dwery> panto: I think I've got it.. there an issue with the symbol "rstctl"
May 28 13:19:39 <Rickta59> those could be fixed by changing the documentation
May 28 13:19:50 <Rickta59> or a walmart style greeter who handles them
May 28 13:19:53 <panto> dwery, ok
May 28 13:20:02 <av500> Rickta59: volunteering?
May 28 13:20:04 <fiola> jkridner: Well you might like to inform koen then how you feel about this kind of behavior, which doesn't exactly make BBB users with problems welcome here -- https://plus.google.com/100242854243155306943/posts/dDAwHbSB6HE
May 28 13:20:09 <Rickta59> i'd answer them but not in this channel
May 28 13:20:17 <Rickta59> if fact i have i just go elsewhere
May 28 13:20:25 <av500> there's the mailing list too
May 28 13:20:28 <thurgood> I generally try to be polite butI enjoy the irc atmosphere
May 28 13:20:36 <Rickta59> exactly fiola that is embarrassing for TI
May 28 13:20:38 <Russ> fiola, I'm sorry if you don't have positive reaction to blanket "xyz just sucks" types of statements
May 28 13:20:40 <georgem> Rickta59: I used to taking heat on other channels for asking questions so I guess it sort of goes over my head. What I do on other channels if I ask something legitimate and someone acts like a dick about it I call them on it right there.
May 28 13:21:04 <Russ> Rickta59, koen doesn't work for or represent TI
May 28 13:21:24 <Rickta59> he isn't getting paid by someone to do angstrom dev?
May 28 13:21:30 <mru> he works for cco
May 28 13:21:32 * av500 has been embarrassed by TI more than once
May 28 13:21:32 <thurgood> lol, no
May 28 13:21:57 <av500> he works for free filament
May 28 13:22:01 <Rickta59> this thing is going to sell in spite of this channel
May 28 13:22:05 <Rickta59> because it is a good product
May 28 13:22:10 <Rickta59> and people will figure it out ..
May 28 13:22:11 <fiola> Russ: lots of people have been reporting bugs here, and not being polite about it either.  I've been polite, and justr reflecting problems mentioned by others and a couple seen by me.
May 28 13:22:16 <Rickta59> and just move away from angstrom
May 28 13:22:24 <av500> sure
May 28 13:22:29 <av500> angstrom is what ships
May 28 13:22:38 <av500> if its shit, people will move to something else
May 28 13:22:38 <Rickta59> right but now i realize that is a dead end
May 28 13:22:55 <Rickta59> as i will just endure grief trying to use it
May 28 13:22:57 <thurgood> provide better support for the product and people will adoptit
May 28 13:23:10 <XorA> Angstrom does not have the biggest team in the world, but what it does have is dedicated, I think people think it has the resources of a much bigger distro
May 28 13:23:48 <Rickta59> if all i care about is the BBB .. i really don't care about angstrom
May 28 13:23:54 <av500> ok
May 28 13:23:56 <mru> fiola: koen's behaviour _in the channel_ is acceptable if a tad annoying when he starts defending systemd
May 28 13:23:58 <av500> lets move on
May 28 13:24:01 <Rickta59> except that it was the default OS when i bought my board
May 28 13:24:03 <dwery> panto: &rstctl is defined in arch/arm/boot/dts/am335x-boneblack.dts, so it should be there
May 28 13:24:08 <fiola> The fact that manpower is limited is perfectly acceptable.  Ridicule by maintainers is not.
May 28 13:24:09 <av500> mru: he has all rights to defend it
May 28 13:24:12 <Russ> fiola, I don't really know how to respond to you in a way that isn't rude
May 28 13:24:17 <av500> he makes angstrom, his choise
May 28 13:24:18 <Rickta59> so now that i realize TI doesn't support it
May 28 13:24:27 <mru> it's cherry-picking quotes and posting them on g+ and similar in a mocking tone I find to have crossed a line
May 28 13:24:27 <dwery> panto: there's a way for me to dump the whole device tree at runtime so I can check?
May 28 13:24:33 <Rickta59> circuit co doesn't support it
May 28 13:24:37 <Rickta59> then why should i use it
May 28 13:24:37 <koen> dwery: /proc/device-tree
May 28 13:24:44 <thurgood> beagle is not a TI product it has TI parts
May 28 13:24:46 <dwery> koen: that wasy easy :D ty
May 28 13:24:52 <mru> av500: sure, that's why I said it's acceptable
May 28 13:25:40 <thurgood> Rickta... move on, you're becoming the one that's being obnoxious here, we get it you don't like angstrom
May 28 13:26:08 <Rickta59> where is georgem i need a hug
May 28 13:26:13 <georgem> heh
May 28 13:26:18 <av500> man hug
May 28 13:26:32 <av500> personal space or I kick you both!
May 28 13:26:42 * panto hugs av500 
May 28 13:26:51 * panto tries to kiss av500 
May 28 13:26:58 <Russ> oh dear
May 28 13:26:59 <av500> go ahead
May 28 13:27:10 <Russ> please don't let this devolve into ##electronics
May 28 13:27:21 <av500> lots of kissing there?
May 28 13:27:24 <thurgood> hope you bought him a nice dinner
May 28 13:27:35 <georgem> Rickta59: I don't use angstrom either but not for the same reasons. However I don't think you'll find anything that is better supported on this hardware without paying extra money.
May 28 13:27:40 <XorA> kissing av500 gotta be hard work, its a long way up :-D
May 28 13:27:58 <fiola> It's not about Angstrom, nor about systemd.  In fact I said it explicitly several times, I'm happy with change, just not with breakage.  I've used piles of *nix systems over the decades and they all differ, it's no big deal.  But they are not broken.
May 28 13:28:05 <mru> XorA: his feet are on the ground
May 28 13:28:06 <av500> panto: http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6568/brezhnevhonecker150757agf4.jpg
May 28 13:28:11 <XorA> mru: :-D
May 28 13:28:18 <av500> +1
May 28 13:28:22 <Russ> fiola, change will always mean a degree breakage
May 28 13:28:35 <Russ> no change will too of course
May 28 13:28:38 <panto> av500, +1
May 28 13:28:43 <av500> fiola: so you used angstrom pre-systemd?
May 28 13:28:47 <av500> and it got worse?
May 28 13:28:59 <panto> av500, so who's bresnief?
May 28 13:29:04 <av500> :)
May 28 13:29:07 <av500> pick your side
May 28 13:29:12 <mdp> strange, I see CCO and TI people both providing regular support publicly
May 28 13:29:18 <thurgood> the distribution didn't become worse, although my understanding of it did
May 28 13:29:31 <av500> fiola: ?
May 28 13:29:39 <fiola> av500: Nope, just noting that it's broken now.  When I get my next clean BBB, I'll start recording the problems.
May 28 13:29:48 <av500> clean?
May 28 13:29:57 <thurgood> unmodified?
May 28 13:30:00 <fiola> Untouched, no problems fixed.
May 28 13:30:07 <av500> fiola: well, then do not state that systemd broke anything on BBB
May 28 13:30:07 <thurgood> fair enough
May 28 13:30:17 <av500> for something to break, it has to work before
May 28 13:30:37 <av500> if you find bugs in angstrom, fair enough
May 28 13:30:44 <av500> bugs are everywhere
May 28 13:30:58 <Russ> a me too post on bug reports is somewhat useful, a, I heard that other people ran into some sort of bug isn't useful
May 28 13:30:59 <fiola> No, broken means not working.  It doesn't have to have worked before for it to be cleasrly non-working.
May 28 13:31:12 <thurgood> patches I'm sure are welcome... unless it means going back from systemd :P
May 28 13:31:19 <fiola> Haha
May 28 13:31:20 <Russ> breakage seems to imply that someone broke something
May 28 13:31:24 <Russ> not that a feature is misisng
May 28 13:31:50 <av500> thurgood: I am sure angstrom patches to maintain sysinit foo will not be rejected
May 28 13:32:09 <av500> koen will happily ignore and merge them
May 28 13:32:22 <thurgood> lol
May 28 13:33:27 <georgem> Are these problems you guys speak of beaglebone black specific?
May 28 13:34:11 <av500> no
May 28 13:34:13 <georgem> I don't even have a BBB yet, just BB.
May 28 13:34:17 <av500> they are open source specific
May 28 13:34:32 <av500> interwoven into the fabric of mankind
May 28 13:34:35 <georgem> well... sorry. thats not what I meant.
May 28 13:34:49 <av500> georgem: if you update your BB, yes
May 28 13:34:56 <av500> you will get DT and systemd
May 28 13:35:25 <av500> hmm, systemd has two high letters, t and d, T and D, D and T, DT.....
May 28 13:35:35 <dwery> panto: ok, that symbol is not there. I see it's defined in am335x-boneblack.dts and implemented by drivers/rstctl/rstctl-gpio.c, which gets compiled in. Anythingthat I could check?
May 28 13:36:25 <georgem> av500: I already have dt and systemd but on my own distro. I don't have any problems but I'm not using all of the peripherals.
May 28 13:36:46 <av500> sure
May 28 13:36:51 <fiola> It's plain that the way forward is to use different distros to avoid the lack of manpower here.  The BBB hardware is awesome after all, best there is around for embedded currently.
May 28 13:37:17 <av500> fiola: you can join RCN in his ubuntu support on BB
May 28 13:37:25 <av500> he's active on the ML
May 28 13:37:39 <av500> maybe even start #beagle-ubuntu
May 28 13:37:49 <georgem> If someone has a problem, tell me which image you're using and what the problem is. Just out of curiosity I'd like to see it.
May 28 13:38:13 <fiola> Debian first I think, then Gentoo.  Ubuntu is a bit too bloaty for embedded.
May 28 13:38:32 <fiola> "a bit" :P
May 28 13:38:34 <av500> distro wars 101
May 28 13:39:02 <av500> anything above buildroot is bloated
May 28 13:39:05 <panto> dwery, what did you modify?
May 28 13:39:07 <panto> git diff?
May 28 13:39:12 <Guser> is there a python io library for the BBB like the pyBBio? if not, is there another way to run bonescripts or any other io controlling scripts localy and not using a browser?
May 28 13:39:45 <av500> Guser: I think there are python io libs
May 28 13:40:02 <av500> but most io is about open/close/read/write to "files"
May 28 13:40:14 <av500> and files are kinda supported everywhere
May 28 13:40:53 <jackmitchell> Guser: a python library written for the BB White will probably work for the BBB
May 28 13:40:55 <georgem> Rickta59: What problem were you having with Angstrom? Which image were you using?
May 28 13:41:39 <jackmitchell> Guser: it's the pin muxing which may be a problem, but you should give it a go, and then see if the maintainer could help you to extend it for the BBB
May 28 13:41:43 <Rickta59> i wanted to recompile the kernel to support ntfs .. the docs were vague and I'm new to the OE build system
May 28 13:41:46 <jkridner> Guser: you can run JavaScript routines from the command line using node and include the Bonescript library.
May 28 13:41:51 <dwery> panto: only can drivers + added dts for my cape. https://github.com/dwery/linux/commits/towertech-tt3201-can-cape I think the problem is in the way I updated the kernel on the sd card. I'm not sure if I handled correctl the dt files
May 28 13:41:54 <Rickta59> i figured it out but it didn't have to be as painful as it was
May 28 13:42:01 <jkridner> Guser: doesn't need to be through the browser.
May 28 13:42:21 <Guser> jkridner: thanks, I'll look into that.
May 28 13:42:46 <av500> jackmitchell: since bonescript cannot pinmux atm, not being able to do it in python is fine :)
May 28 13:42:48 <georgem> Rickta59: ah ok. I didn't have that much trouble building angstrom last time I tried it but I guess I have quite a bit of experience doing this sort of thing...
May 28 13:42:55 <dwery> panto: am335x-boneblack.dts get's compiled in the kernel itself or should I place the compiled versione somewhere?
May 28 13:42:58 <Guser> jackmitchell: I think I'll try to run the bonescipt localy first then :)
May 28 13:43:23 <jackmitchell> Rickta59: openembedded can be difficult, unfortunately that's because it's a complete and flexible embedded Linux build system;
May 28 13:43:35 <panto> you need to update the dtb's and the dtbo's
May 28 13:43:36 <av500> also, it has "open" in the name
May 28 13:43:42 <mdp> +1
May 28 13:43:46 <panto> it's not compiled in the kernel
May 28 13:43:52 <panto> you have to put it in /boot
May 28 13:43:52 <av500> thats like democratic in a country name
May 28 13:44:24 <panto> people's republic of embedded?
May 28 13:44:34 <mdp> People's Democratic Build System
May 28 13:44:44 <jackmitchell> Rickta59: if OpenEmbedded wasn't used then it would another build system (buildroot) or possibly Linux from Scratch, both of which would be no better I'm afraid
May 28 13:44:48 <mru> people's embedded republic
May 28 13:45:00 <georgem> Rickta59: IIRC I think I asked you when you were first having the problem to check /proc/config.gz to see if NTFS was compiled in the kernel (I'm not running angstrom ATM so I didn't know) I dont think you ever answered.
May 28 13:45:14 <panto> I could live with a distro that sent anyone that broke the build to Siberia
May 28 13:45:18 <Rickta59> it wasn't and my internet was going up and down that day
May 28 13:45:26 <koen> if you want to use ntfs, stay away from the kernel driver, it will eat your data
May 28 13:45:55 * KotH nods
May 28 13:46:15 <av500> still, if he wants it, let him have it
May 28 13:46:19 <av500> ntfs is not the point
May 28 13:46:24 <av500> if could be minifs
May 28 13:46:28 <av500> minixfs
May 28 13:46:38 <mru> fuse + ntfs3g works
May 28 13:46:53 <LetoThe2nd> koen: we should implement burp.ko and have it depend on ntfs.ko
May 28 13:47:10 <dwery> panto: ok, I forgot that step. I'm pretty new to dt, sorry.
May 28 13:47:26 <av500> maybe he needs read only only
May 28 13:48:27 <Rickta59> btw .. ubuntu has ntfs compiled in if anyone was wondering so you can just grab their image and have it work
May 28 13:48:34 <panto> dwery, no problem
May 28 13:48:45 <dwery> panto: is there a make target for that?
May 28 13:49:02 <panto> make firmware builds the dtbos
May 28 13:49:19 <dwery> great
May 28 13:49:39 <dwery> I thought they were somehow embedded in the kernel itself
May 28 13:49:46 <dwery> but that would have prevented the bootloader to use them
May 28 13:49:56 <av500> both can be done
May 28 13:50:26 <panto> you can also make the base dtb's by: uImage-dtb.am335x-boneblack
May 28 13:50:29 <panto> err, make uImage-dtb.am335x-boneblack
May 28 13:51:26 <koen> dwery: http://pastebin.com/u27X7nhr
May 28 13:51:31 <koen> that's what I use to build it
May 28 13:52:10 <dwery> panto, koen: thanks, that should work
May 28 13:55:19 <dwery> much better now, everything gets loaded correctly
May 28 13:55:27 <dwery> I kinda like that dt stuff..
May 28 13:55:42 * koen hisses
May 28 13:55:46 * koen gets out the garlic
May 28 13:55:50 <dwery> :D
May 28 13:56:13 <dwery> koen: I see the eeprom spec revision now says A1... Is there a changelog from A0 to A1 ?
May 28 13:57:07 <koen> the 2 new pins were added
May 28 13:57:15 <koen> jkridner should have a changelog
May 28 13:57:50 <dwery> eeprom.js is still the one from your repo, ~1 year ago?
May 28 13:57:52 * jkridner will make one.
May 28 13:58:08 <jkridner> eeprom.js isn't complete.
May 28 13:58:34 <jkridner> only delta I recall is the new pins.
May 28 14:00:09 * mdp saves another pro-DT quote
May 28 14:00:22 <dwery> jkridner: shouldn't be a problem if I use it, right?
May 28 14:01:40 <jkridner> It only makes an A0 rev eeprom.
May 28 14:02:06 <dwery> jkridner: I don't need the two new pins, so I should be safe
May 28 14:02:10 <av500> what is eprom.js now?
May 28 14:02:11 <jkridner> it was debugged at one point, but I'd say you'd want to be careful to validate it against the new spec.
May 28 14:02:13 <koen> does anything actually use the pin bits in the eeprom?
May 28 14:02:17 <av500> js running on your eprom?
May 28 14:02:28 <koen> av500: json -> eeprom binary format
May 28 14:02:37 <koen> and eeprom -> json
May 28 14:02:49 <av500> would DT help here?
May 28 14:02:58 <av500> maybe ET
May 28 14:03:59 <XorA> phone home
May 28 14:04:55 <LetoThe2nd> XorA: thats googleadobemicrosoft, not ET.
May 28 14:05:27 <av500> we all know that angstrom sends your CC number to koen
May 28 14:05:48 <XorA> ah thats how he gets all those 3d printer parts
May 28 14:05:51 <KotH> as long it doesnt make my dog pregnant
May 28 14:05:55 <koen> and the 2nd ferrari
May 28 14:06:02 <koen> and the house made of chocolate
May 28 14:06:08 <georgem> One complaint I have with the way some of the DT stuff is done is that the pinmux registers, modes etc are entered as literals.
May 28 14:06:31 <panto> georgem, yeah
May 28 14:06:33 <av500> yeah
May 28 14:06:41 <av500> there is CPP now for that
May 28 14:06:57 <Guser> did anyone else get their var/lib/cloud9/.settings.xml deleted by the guided could9 tour?
May 28 14:07:10 <Guser> cloud9*
May 28 14:07:13 <mdp> georgem, been discussed to death, even have had previous patches that didn't meet dtc maintainer reqmts
May 28 14:07:23 <mdp> the CPP submission is the latest darling
May 28 14:07:37 <georgem> mdp: ah ok. figured someone must have said something about it.
May 28 14:07:48 <panto> av500, actually a pinctrl-descriptive driver that maps names to muxes might be less pain
May 28 14:07:56 <panto> but, yeah
May 28 14:08:02 * XorA suggests ACPI
May 28 14:08:05 <mdp> just take whatever you can get
May 28 14:10:01 <mdp> panto, since the swarren got that support in finally, it's all about a sane implementation
May 28 14:10:17 <mdp> panto, since we discussed the crappiness of the one patchset
May 28 14:10:37 <panto> yes
May 28 14:11:08 <av500> panto: how does a driver help me to navigate all the hex magic in a dt file?
May 28 14:11:14 <mdp> I'm going to stick to just one battle in edma land
May 28 14:11:18 <mdp> ;)
May 28 14:12:40 <Russ> mdp, speaking of edma land, the edma patch from 3.2 still works surprisingly well
May 28 14:12:43 <Russ> er
May 28 14:12:49 <Russ> the edma suspend patch that is
May 28 14:12:53 <KotH> av500: go to hogwards, there you learn all that magic, and more
May 28 14:12:55 <mdp> cool
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 28 14:16:22 2013
May 28 14:17:44 <av500> omg, PDF jailbreak
May 28 14:18:33 <Russ> ?
May 28 14:18:44 <av500> they are jailbreaking PDF
May 28 14:19:02 <mru> meaning what?
May 28 14:19:10 <av500> no idea
May 28 14:19:17 <mru> pdf has always been an open format
May 28 14:19:18 <av500> do I read what I post?
May 28 14:19:22 <mru> I hope not
May 28 14:19:36 <av500> they babble about PDF2XML
May 28 14:19:41 <av500> they want it back in ODF
May 28 14:19:55 <av500> somebody did not get the "presentation" format thing...
May 28 14:20:05 <av500> its like jailbreaking gerber files into kicad
May 28 14:20:55 <av500> "...more after the commercial break..."
May 28 14:21:28 <mru> or decompiling machine code to C
May 28 14:21:48 <Russ> hmm...maybe I should learn more about this 'Open Jalibreaking community'
May 28 14:21:56 <KotH> mru: been there, done tha, got boring
May 28 14:22:18 <KotH> Russ: try alkatraz (or how that beast is spelled)
May 28 14:22:53 <panto> av500, mdp, here?
May 28 14:23:03 <Russ> jailbreak must mean something different in the UK
May 28 14:23:12 <mru> KotH: they turned into a tourist trap, now the challenge is getting _in_
May 28 14:23:34 <Russ> mru, yup, gotta reserve your slot ahead of time
May 28 14:23:52 <av500> panto: ?
May 28 14:24:02 <panto> av500, mdp, http://hastebin.com/xahigupasi.coffee
May 28 14:24:11 <av500> tl:dr
May 28 14:24:12 <panto> first part, without capemgr
May 28 14:24:35 <Russ> hmm....maybe they should spend more time convincing people to publish scholarly articles in latex
May 28 14:24:41 <mru> panto: what's with the funky colouring?
May 28 14:24:43 <av500> panto: whats with the color scheme?
May 28 14:24:50 <panto> no friggin idea
May 28 14:24:52 <panto> it's hastebin's
May 28 14:24:57 <fiola> Russ:  A rarely used term here, because cellphones are not tied to carriers, you can put your GSM sim into anything, and the norm from general box shifters is for devices to be fully unlocked.
May 28 14:25:05 <panto> it's getting confused by the ' in the text
May 28 14:25:22 <panto> http://hastebin.com/raw/xahigupasi
May 28 14:25:23 <Russ> fiola, rtfa
May 28 14:25:52 <panto> continuing on the capemgr
May 28 14:26:08 <panto> let me know of the embarrassing errors
May 28 14:26:25 <av500> Russ: he cant, no url
May 28 14:26:33 <Russ> ah, sorry
May 28 14:26:44 <Russ> http://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr/2013/05/28/jailbreaking-the-pdf-a-wonderful-hackathon-and-a-community-leap-forward-for-freedom-1/
May 28 14:27:21 <mru> Russ: that seems to be some boffins misunderstanding both pdfs and the term jailbreak
May 28 14:27:47 <av500> well, they are paid by a soap merchant
May 28 14:29:12 <KotH> Russ: actually, most journals in the EE and CS field use latex as submission format
May 28 14:29:30 <KotH> Russ: and i wouldnt surprised if most hard sciences follow the same road
May 28 14:29:56 <av500> yes
May 28 14:30:04 <av500> but the journal articles are given out as PDF
May 28 14:30:05 <Russ> I'm in a CS research group at my college, none of them understand latex
May 28 14:30:08 <av500> unaccepepepsatable
May 28 14:30:22 <av500> its holding back science
May 28 14:30:51 <KotH> av500: so what? if i need the latex sources, then it's for the diagrams... and you can just send a mail to the researcher for those
May 28 14:31:01 <KotH> av500: you even get the raw data!!!1!1!einself
May 28 14:31:07 <KotH> Russ: wtf?
May 28 14:31:16 <KotH> Russ: change to an uni
May 28 14:31:20 <Russ> it is a uni
May 28 14:31:27 <KotH> Russ: change uni
May 28 14:31:27 <Russ> arizona state
May 28 14:31:39 <Russ> most of the cfp's I've seen these days have word templates available
May 28 14:32:16 <Russ> what's really frightening is people who write this thesis in word
May 28 14:32:30 <KotH> Russ: first thing we got told in our EE course was "you can do your reports in word, if you want. but if they turn out horrible and you wast tons of time to fix that one linebreak, it will not be our fault...with latex on the other hand, we will gladly help you fix your problems"
May 28 14:32:42 <mru> Russ: and they keep the only copy on a laptop which gets stolen
May 28 14:32:48 <Russ> heh
May 28 14:32:54 <av500> KotH: we told students the same
May 28 14:32:54 <Russ> what are you talking about, only copy?
May 28 14:32:57 <KotH> Russ: i once found a book whos title was "writiting scientific works in word"
May 28 14:33:03 <av500> many did their 1st thesis in word
May 28 14:33:04 <Russ> they have a _beforereview05.docx
May 28 14:33:08 <av500> never the 2nd one
May 28 14:33:11 <Russ> _changechange2.docx
May 28 14:33:27 <av500> "...its due today and it does not print..."
May 28 14:33:28 <KotH> av500: eh
May 28 14:33:33 <koen> KotH: my EE department was mixed, there were a few die hard latex departments and a lot of "don't care" departments
May 28 14:33:34 <Russ> actually these days the adoption of dropbox is pretty deep
May 28 14:33:39 <av500> we had one student with lots of images
May 28 14:33:42 <av500> in a word doc
May 28 14:33:43 <Russ> so a lot of stuff ends up there
May 28 14:33:49 <av500> they all printed B&W for some reason
May 28 14:33:55 <av500> they were color in the doc
May 28 14:33:58 <KotH> av500: it helped that we had tobi oetiker (author of the not so short intro to latex 2e) as one of our department admins :)
May 28 14:34:09 <av500> by chance, we found that if you clicked on it to edit it
May 28 14:34:17 <av500> and saved it without change, it went to color
May 28 14:34:18 <koen> KotH: with stats on the reports stored in rrd?
May 28 14:34:18 <Russ> word really starts to churn bad with too much image data
May 28 14:34:23 <av500> student spent 1 day clicking
May 28 14:34:27 <KotH> koen: ofc!
May 28 14:34:38 <KotH> koen: though, i started before RRD was even invented
May 28 14:35:33 <koen> Russ: the university tools we we forced to use had one big advantage: EMF support
May 28 14:35:50 <koen> Russ: so copy/paste of the models and diagrams into word preserved the vectors
May 28 14:36:26 <koen> and windows clipboard could save it as emf (or wmf, I forget), so you could import it into latex as well after a emf2ps
May 28 14:39:23 <bricke> Hi everyone, what's the most used winCe image on the beagleboard/beaglebone?
May 28 14:39:43 <mru> I'm not aware of anyone using one at all
May 28 14:40:15 <av500> bricke: any you can get your hands on is fine
May 28 14:40:44 <mru> for generous values of fine
May 28 14:41:06 <av500> violators will be fine
May 28 14:41:09 <av500> fined
May 28 14:41:19 <panto> I liked the first one better
May 28 14:42:04 <ogra_> fined fine ?
May 28 14:42:20 <av500> panto: is there no syntactic sugar to just get a struct of pdata filled from DT?
May 28 14:42:34 <av500> this foo_parse_dt looks like it will be done in every driver
May 28 14:42:35 <KotH> what is it with people wanting to run wince on the bone?
May 28 14:42:41 <KotH> where do they come from?
May 28 14:42:47 * mru winces at the thought
May 28 14:42:52 <av500> the twilight zone
May 28 14:42:55 <jackmitchell> the land of .net
May 28 14:43:53 <panto> av500, there are a lot of helper parse functions
May 28 14:44:00 <panto> for interrupts/dma channels, etc
May 28 14:44:07 <av500> ic
May 28 14:44:31 <panto> but nothing generic like - fill in this structure
May 28 14:44:35 <panto> patches welcome :)
May 28 14:45:15 <av500> one would need to describe the structure :)
May 28 14:45:18 <panto> the more advanced DT stuff don't have to use a pdata structure
May 28 14:45:19 <av500> maybe in XML
May 28 14:45:24 <panto> evil
May 28 14:45:31 <panto> you go first
May 28 14:46:17 <dm8tbr> the boot-loader could make a SOAP request to retrieve the XML
May 28 14:46:25 <mru> use xml, but allow a vendor-specific element where you stuff everything a cdata blob in a completely different format
May 28 14:46:33 <av500> yes
May 28 14:46:38 <panto> mru, extra points if that format is binary
May 28 14:46:39 <av500> I will do that in DT anyway
May 28 14:46:44 <mru> panto: what else?
May 28 14:46:54 <panto> encrypted binary format
May 28 14:46:55 <koen> wbxml!
May 28 14:47:00 <av500> I am so looking forward to getting the first DT kernel from China
May 28 14:47:39 <dm8tbr> can it also be signed? so that it can only be used for certain hardware?
May 28 14:47:46 <kfoltman> panto: automatic internet download of dtb on boot-up, with fiola in mind
May 28 14:47:57 <panto> DWIM support!
May 28 14:48:05 <av500> panto: extra point for using "bear"
May 28 14:48:08 <kfoltman> also, systemd support for dtb fragments downloaded from the Internet
May 28 14:48:08 <fiola> kfoltman: why?
May 28 14:48:22 <dm8tbr> built in 'always online' requirement ;)
May 28 14:48:36 <panto> SonyDT
May 28 14:48:42 <kfoltman> ... from the Sony website
May 28 14:49:09 <kfoltman> fiola: we've heard you like systemd and internet-downloaded binaries ;)
May 28 14:49:17 <jackmitchell> &board {
May 28 14:49:17 <jackmitchell> linux, init = "board-file.c"
May 28 14:49:17 <jackmitchell> }
May 28 14:49:28 <dm8tbr> ok, it is _my_ friday, but why is everyone else in a friday mood too?
May 28 14:49:39 <mru> it's not friday yet?
May 28 14:49:43 <kfoltman> damn!
May 28 14:49:54 <panto> keeps us from jumping off the roof
May 28 14:50:29 <kfoltman> panto: no, that's the mesh net in all the windows
May 28 14:50:51 <dm8tbr> windows CE?
May 28 14:50:52 <fiola> kfoltman:  I don't mind systemd, I've said it many times, I just don't like non-working systems.  I'm sure that installed properly, systemd on BBB will be fine.  It takes time to get it right.
May 28 14:51:00 * KotH gives everyone a ring... in DT to bind them
May 28 14:51:05 <mru> I don't know which is harder, reading french or reading french google-translated into english
May 28 14:51:09 <dm8tbr> a token ring?
May 28 14:51:19 <panto> <TOKEN LOST>
May 28 14:51:55 <kfoltman> fiola: it sounds like "I don't mind windows, I just don't like closed-source software" to me ;)
May 28 14:51:56 <KotH> mru: for a french, definitly the later
May 28 14:52:12 <mru> KotH: yes, but I'm not french
May 28 14:52:29 <fiola> kfoltman: About downloaded binaries, you're right, they're a security risk, unless they have the permanence of being signed and so you can assign trust.
May 28 14:52:46 <kfoltman> fiola: I haven't seen systemd based setup I'd like to maintain ;)
May 28 14:53:03 <SpeedEvil> signed binaries are not risk free unless they are also bug free
May 28 14:53:07 <fiola> Yeah, but I'm not maintaining, koen is. :P
May 28 14:53:24 <SpeedEvil> revocation can help with this, but adds risks.
May 28 14:53:30 <panto> there is no such thing as a bug-free program
May 28 14:53:38 <fiola> panto++
May 28 14:53:43 <mru> yes, koen maintains that systemd is just fine
May 28 14:53:53 <kfoltman> OTOH probably not an issue worth being vocal about to me, I don't mind my BBB being a single-use device
May 28 14:54:07 <fiola> Beyond trivial ones that can be formally validated.  And even then, you might question the validation.
May 28 14:54:14 <mru> in the 3rd sense of the word: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/maintain
May 28 14:55:40 <av500> panto: why does am33xx_pinmux have stuff about foo driver?
May 28 14:56:19 <panto> av500, cause that's the way the pinmux driver works
May 28 14:56:47 <panto> with the cape fragments that's handled, but the target of the pinmux fragment is still the mux driver
May 28 14:57:50 <bricke> The question is simple, we work in Linux for the 99% of our project, but now we've a .NET application that we cannot make it work with MONO/Wine, so we need a wince installation on an "unexpensive" hw.
May 28 14:58:09 <mru> rewrite it
May 28 14:58:16 <mru> it'll be less effort
May 28 14:58:21 <av500> bricke: tried mono?
May 28 14:58:55 <mru> mono is dead
May 28 14:59:02 <jackmitchell> av500: he mentions it doesn't work with mono/wine, I assume there must be some 3rd party libraries
May 28 14:59:40 <av500> mru: is it?
May 28 14:59:47 <panto> run in QEMU arm on the bone
May 28 15:00:07 <bricke> av500: Mono doesn't work well with VB-NET
May 28 15:00:17 <Russ> ya, qemu, that's what I was thinking
May 28 15:00:54 <fiola> bricke: If you truly cannot port it to Linux, then your only remaining option is to buy in commercial support.  WinCE porters will probably be delighted to take your money, but it may invalidate your "cheap" requirement.
May 28 15:00:56 <panto> he never said that the app must run fast
May 28 15:01:34 <bricke> we can buy licence, no problem at all.
May 28 15:01:40 <bricke> *licenses
May 28 15:01:55 <av500> then you can also buy paid support
May 28 15:01:59 <av500> from the usual guys
May 28 15:02:39 <jackmitchell> bricke: have you seen: http://www.ti.com/devnet/docs/catalog/embeddedsoftwarefulldetails.tsp?productId=13121
May 28 15:02:47 <bricke> as I've already said, we work in Linux the 99% of the time, who is the "usual guys"? MS?
May 28 15:02:53 <jackmitchell> first result on google...
May 28 15:03:07 <bricke> already seen
May 28 15:03:16 <jackmitchell> is that not what you want?
May 28 15:03:31 <av500> bricke: all the winCE porters
May 28 15:03:36 <av500> "integrators"
May 28 15:03:41 <bricke> yes, maybe, I want only to know if there is come winCe version that works better than other.
May 28 15:03:53 <av500> if you post the source, we can have a look
May 28 15:04:08 <bricke> the source of what
May 28 15:04:10 <bricke> ?
May 28 15:04:13 <av500> bricke: we have no idea about wince versions
May 28 15:04:13 <jackmitchell> as far as I'm aware that is the "official" goto place for WinCE BSP
May 28 15:04:16 <ogra_> of the image indeed
May 28 15:04:26 <av500> of the ROM
May 28 15:04:47 <fiola> It happens.  Sometimes your devs leave the team and nobody else knows how an app works, so running the old binary is your only option.  Rock and a hard place though, you don't want to be there if you can avoid it.  If your app is to have a future, bite the $$ bullet and port it.
May 28 15:05:10 <bricke> av500: ok
May 28 15:05:30 <bricke> the app will be killed within a year and half
May 28 15:05:40 <bricke> porting to C++ will cost 1h of work
May 28 15:05:47 <av500> ?
May 28 15:06:02 <bricke> av500: ok that you don't know :D
May 28 15:06:03 <ogra_> proting wince to C++ ?
May 28 15:06:06 <ogra_> in 1h ?
May 28 15:06:07 <ogra_> wow
May 28 15:06:11 <bricke> porting vb.net to c++
May 28 15:06:18 <bricke> sorry, 1 year
May 28 15:06:22 <av500> ah
May 28 15:06:25 <fiola> lolz
May 28 15:06:29 <fiola> units :P
May 28 15:06:31 <bricke> :D
May 28 15:06:51 <av500> 1 squarepound per microfathom
May 28 15:07:07 <av500> per fortnight
May 28 15:07:24 <mru> cubic fortnight, surely
May 28 15:07:31 <av500> right
May 28 15:07:38 <mru> timecube.com
May 28 15:07:43 <av500> panto: it ends abruptly
May 28 15:07:48 <av500> like a cliffhanger
May 28 15:07:52 <av500> you got me hooked
May 28 15:07:59 <av500> paywall?
May 28 15:08:02 <panto> av500, yes, writing the next part now
May 28 15:08:09 <av500> ah
May 28 15:09:00 <av500> panto: minor nit, put a ":" before the rant url
May 28 15:09:09 <av500> and maybe make it <blink>
May 28 15:09:29 <panto> OKAY
May 28 15:09:32 <panto> </blink>
May 28 15:17:16 <KotH> can i hire a hitman please?
May 28 15:17:40 <dm8tbr> KotH: just declare it part of your jihad
May 28 15:17:45 <KotH> coworker is wasting everones times with his leftist-pseudo-eco ideas
May 28 15:17:45 <panto> why leave the fun to another person?
May 28 15:17:49 <ogra_> why do you have to ask ?
May 28 15:18:08 <dm8tbr> both valid questions that I asked myself too
May 28 15:18:15 <panto> KotH, tell him to go to .gr and see what his claptrap brought
May 28 15:21:20 <KotH> panto: i dont think you have enough space for all those shitheads i would want to send in .gr
May 28 15:21:23 <ogra_> ... in a Merkel costume ...
May 28 15:21:34 <KotH> now, that would be fun to watch
May 28 15:21:59 <panto> how about we send them to you?
May 28 15:22:01 <av500> KotH: there is enough space in greece *between* all the islans
May 28 15:22:02 <av500> islands
May 28 15:22:27 <panto> actually lots of barren islands used to be exile places for communists back in the day
May 28 15:22:34 <panto> perfect natural prisons
May 28 15:23:44 <av500> +1
May 28 15:23:51 <av500> ok, time to go shopping
May 28 15:25:15 <KotH> panto: cool
May 28 15:25:24 <KotH> panto: i'll prepare the cargo trains!
May 28 15:25:33 <panto> perhaps we can put both the left+right wackos and have them duke it out
May 28 15:25:49 <panto> get rich out of royalties of the tv show
May 28 15:25:52 * KotH wouldnt mind that
May 28 15:26:03 <KotH> especially not the getting rich part
May 28 15:27:26 <Jenn_> What is the difference between BeagleBone Black DevKit and BeagleBone Black A5 DevKit?
May 28 15:28:09 <Jenn_> Hello?
May 28 15:28:11 <dwery> panto: everything works now. I would like to have a different setup when my cape in on the black that when is on the white. Should I provide two files or there's a way to put the twos on the same file for capemgr to load?
May 28 15:28:30 <panto> what kind of different setup?
May 28 15:28:39 <dwery> panto: activate HDMi when it's in the black
May 28 15:28:46 <dwery> so I'll add the HDMi related fragments
May 28 15:29:07 <dwery> (except for the audio)
May 28 15:29:32 <panto> your case is complicated
May 28 15:29:37 <dwery> I know :D
May 28 15:29:39 <kfoltman> panto: Well, there's this old idea of putting the radical anarchists, all kinds of the radical left/right wing (including xtian/muslim/neonazis/white-power types etc.) on the same island and broadcast it on pay-per-view
May 28 15:29:41 <panto> hehe
May 28 15:29:51 <dwery> talk to whom stole MY spi pins :D
May 28 15:30:57 <panto> dwery, I guess your case might be handled with having a method loading a different dtbo for each cape
May 28 15:31:04 <panto> *err, bone revision
May 28 15:31:18 <dwery> how would that work?
May 28 15:31:39 <panto> instead of having a single dtbo to load for both
May 28 15:31:48 <dwery> so that should be implemented in capemgr?
May 28 15:31:52 <panto> it can try to load a version specific dtbo
May 28 15:31:54 <panto> yes
May 28 15:32:06 <panto> but don't hold your breath waiting for it
May 28 15:32:09 <dwery> :D
May 28 15:32:35 <panto> perhaps on the 3.10/3.11 forward port
May 28 15:32:37 <dwery> can;'t the same dtbo hold both, using the compatible kleyword?
May 28 15:33:02 <panto> there's already a compatible keyword
May 28 15:33:31 <dwery> but can I put two tjhe two pieces in the same dtbo?
May 28 15:33:55 <mru> oh dear, http://www.bitangels.co/
May 28 15:33:58 <panto> no
May 28 15:34:18 <panto> it has been tried, but perverts DT too much to make it work
May 28 15:34:26 <panto> so not a chance of ever being upstreamed
May 28 15:34:33 <dwery> ok. so I guess I'll have to distribute two dtbos
May 28 15:35:00 <panto> well, if you register your cape with CCO we can plop them in the default kernel
May 28 15:35:11 <KotH> mru: it's bitcoin, so what?
May 28 15:35:25 <panto> you can symlink to the ones you use according to the bone
May 28 15:35:41 <panto> i.e. a-white.dtbo, a-black.dtbo in /lib/firmware
May 28 15:35:57 <panto> ln -s /lib/firmware/a-white.dtbo /lib/firmware/a.dtbo
May 28 15:36:01 <dwery> I would like to avoid having customers take extra steps
May 28 15:36:35 <dwery> I think I'll put in the noHDMI default version
May 28 15:36:46 <dwery> and then have instructions to add HDMI
May 28 15:36:53 <panto> good plan
May 28 15:37:02 <dwery> maybe loading the additional dtbo at runtime
May 28 15:37:12 <panto> that will work
May 28 15:37:30 <dwery> I can maybe add a fake hdmi-no-audio to /lib/firmware
May 28 15:37:31 <panto> you can find out the revision on runtime and load the dtbo from a boot script
May 28 15:38:13 <panto> there's nothing preventing you disabling the automatic loading of your cape
May 28 15:38:33 <panto> and performing the load of the correct dtbo from a boot script
May 28 15:38:36 <dwery> k
May 28 15:38:51 <panto> that will work for sure
May 28 15:38:55 <ynezz> and if everything else fails, it can be fixed with systemd
May 28 15:39:22 <dwery> ynezz: let me get my hands to that systemd/pulseadio guys...
May 28 15:40:06 <m_billybob> morning everyone
May 28 15:40:26 <ynezz> dwery: they're just next door to DT folks
May 28 15:40:34 <dwery> :D
May 28 15:40:51 <dwery> panto: same cape with two different revisione requires two dtbos, right?
May 28 15:40:58 <panto> yes
May 28 15:44:14 <dwery> panto: you might want to provide fallback to a stbo with no version in your huge spare time ;)
May 28 15:45:03 <panto> dwery, fallbacks are dangerous
May 28 15:45:10 <dwery> only when you fall
May 28 15:45:30 <panto> 1 bad cape loaded -> short -> RMA
May 28 15:51:03 <Tey> Hello, I've got a strange Serial Debug output :/
May 28 15:51:32 <Tey> the board is just printing "C"
May 28 15:51:36 <Tey> each sec
May 28 15:53:07 <KotH> panto: i hope these things dont fall into the category of RMA, but rather user-is-too-stupid-to-handle-the-board-correctly
May 28 15:53:08 <mru> they should've made it print CQ
May 28 15:53:21 <KotH> and 73 on shutdown
May 28 15:53:32 <Tey> ?
May 28 15:54:21 <mru> ham radio codes
May 28 15:54:52 <KotH> mru: do you have a license?
May 28 15:54:56 <mru> no
May 28 15:54:59 <KotH> why not?
May 28 15:55:09 <mru> never got one
May 28 15:55:13 <KotH> why not?
May 28 15:55:20 <mru> didn't seem worthwhile
May 28 15:55:28 <Tey> So what does this "C" mean?
May 28 15:55:40 <mru> same as CQ
May 28 15:55:48 <Tey> whats CQ?
May 28 15:55:54 <KotH> http://www.hamuniverse.com/qsignals.html
May 28 15:56:24 * ogra_ remembers that google helped him on the first hit when he had such a problem years ago
May 28 15:56:40 <ogra_> though google likely changed a lot over the years
May 28 15:56:43 <KotH> figuring out what your ham friends were talking about?
May 28 15:56:44 <mru> Tey: the C means the boot rom isn't finding anything it likes on emmc or sd
May 28 15:57:35 <KotH> time to face the flood...
May 28 15:57:39 <KotH> wish me luck
May 28 15:57:55 <Tey> thanks mru, i expected to get a full output on serial what hes doing
May 28 15:58:01 * mru does not believe in luck
May 28 15:58:03 <Tey> like what hes doing and stuff
May 28 16:00:29 <Tey> cant i get outputed what hes searching for?
May 28 16:00:34 <Tey> instead of a "C"?
May 28 16:00:42 <Tey> i expected to get any closer informations
May 28 16:00:49 <Tey> with that serial Port
May 28 16:01:15 <dwery> panto: how many dashed are allowed when you do echo stuf > slots ?
May 28 16:01:24 <mru> Tey: which board do you have?
May 28 16:01:24 <dwery> dashes*
May 28 16:01:36 <fiola> Tey: the stuff appearing on console is normally extremely comprehensive.  It seems that your fault is just very early on, and "C" is prolly a code.
May 28 16:03:33 <Tey> i use Beaglebone Black
May 28 16:03:45 <fiola> Tey: Just like a PC BIOS only gives you a code in beeps if it fails even before the screen is initialized
May 28 16:03:45 <Tey> for testing i delted the uboot and mlo file lol
May 28 16:03:50 <mru> what did you do to the emmc?
May 28 16:04:00 <Tey> since that day my linux isnt booting anymore
May 28 16:04:04 <mru> fiola: the boot rom never prints anything informative
May 28 16:04:20 <Tey> but thats not my problem, because i dont even want it
May 28 16:04:25 <mru> Tey: you need to make a bootable sd card
May 28 16:04:35 <panto> dwery, err, what?
May 28 16:04:48 <Tey> i expected ill get some comprehensive why my sd card isnt booting
May 28 16:05:01 <panto> CCCCs are no MLO
May 28 16:05:06 <Tey> dont get my sd card booted sicne a week
May 28 16:05:14 <dwery> panto: echo foo-bar-baz > /slots doesn't work, echo foo-bar > ... does
May 28 16:05:20 <Tey> its properly formatted
May 28 16:05:29 <mru> no it's not
May 28 16:05:34 <mru> if it were, it would boot
May 28 16:05:44 <dwery> panto: I originally called the file cape-boneblack-hdmi-no-audio-00A0 :D
May 28 16:05:47 <Tey> does BB black need a specific SD card?
May 28 16:05:48 <ogra_> if there is content on it at least
May 28 16:05:49 <dwery> enable-hdmi did the trick
May 28 16:05:53 <panto> dwery, what does it try to load?
May 28 16:06:16 <mru> Tey: you need a properly formatted card with a good mlo
May 28 16:06:16 <dwery> I'm kickin in HDMI without the mcasp.. it seems to work
May 28 16:07:08 <Tey> mru: it should be properly formatted, with windows built in formatter to Fat32, and image files and MLO is copied with TI Boot Utility
May 28 16:07:50 <mru> the fat partition needs to be marked active/bootable
May 28 16:08:04 <panto> dwery, it should
May 28 16:08:08 <Tey> how?
May 28 16:08:24 <mru> with whatever variant of fdisk you use
May 28 16:08:33 <Tey> and maybe im just pushing the wrong buttons... what do i need to tell the board to boot from SD Card?
May 28 16:09:26 <dwery> panto: framer kicks in, audio fails as expected. as soon as ups delivers the microHDMi cable, I'll check it
May 28 16:12:52 <Tey> mru: i only have to press boot button to switch to SD card boot?
May 28 16:17:06 <thurgood> does anyone happen to have links or know the name of the current MLO/uboot repos?
May 28 16:17:26 <Russ> denx
May 28 16:20:05 <dwery> panto: tilcdc 4830e000.fb: Connected to an HDMI monitor with cea mode 7
May 28 16:20:07 <dwery> it does
May 28 16:20:19 <panto> that can't be
May 28 16:20:24 <panto> that 3.8 kernel is a dud
May 28 16:20:27 <panto> it doesn't work
May 28 16:20:36 <panto> people can't figure it out
May 28 16:20:38 <panto> :)
May 28 16:20:45 <fiola> Tey:  I haven't done it yet, but rereading the manual, it says "If you hold the boot switch down during boot, and you have a uSD card inserted with a bootable image, the board will boot from the uSD card."  Nothing else.  It doesn't say how long to press, but a short while seems reasonable.  And if you see the USER1 LED flash, that means it's accessing uSD.
May 28 16:20:55 <ka6sox-away> morning
May 28 16:21:01 * fiola waves
May 28 16:21:19 <panto> hi
May 28 16:21:23 <kfoltman> There was some confusion related to which button is the boot switch, and that there was some misleading information out there, or am I totally wrong?
May 28 16:23:04 <panto> ka6sox, http://hastebin.com/raw/xahigupasi
May 28 16:23:09 <fiola> kfoltman: Dunno, but POWER and RESET are well marked, you even if you can't see a legend, BOOT is the other one :P
May 28 16:23:11 <m_billybob> morning ka6sox
May 28 16:23:28 <ka6sox> panto, let me give that a read....
May 28 16:23:36 <ka6sox> morning fiola m_billybob
May 28 16:25:30 <thurgood> thanks Russ
May 28 16:25:38 <panto> ka6sox, writing the next parts
May 28 16:25:47 <fiola> kfoltman/Tey: OK, just confirmed that the one marked "Boot switch" in the manual is the one that is not labelled RESET nor POWER on the board, so no confusion there.
May 28 16:25:47 <panto> so it ends abruptly
May 28 16:27:53 <ka6sox> Panto, there is a lot of meat here...digesting this is going to take several sittings.
May 28 16:28:05 <ka6sox> so breaking it up is good.
May 28 16:28:23 <dwery> thw standard framebuffer test works too... cat /lib/libc.so.6 >/dev/fb
May 28 16:28:26 <panto> still have a long way to go
May 28 16:28:43 <panto> dwery, mine is cat /dev/urandom >/dev/fb
May 28 16:32:32 <ka6sox> panto, so /proc/devicetree allows you, in a limited way, to understand whats loaded...what I'm unsure of is because parts are binary can an application know whether its safe to reconfigure this?
May 28 16:32:54 <dwery> ka6sox: what are you trying to do? ;)
May 28 16:33:01 <panto> ka6sox, yes
May 28 16:33:33 <ka6sox> dwery, I have a person who wants to use a particular pin that they *think* is safe for a W1 device...
May 28 16:33:59 <dwery> and I guess no other pin is suitable for that, right?
May 28 16:34:10 <ka6sox> but that means they have to load a dtbo via capemanager to reconfigure that pin from lets say..a straight output to bi-directional.
May 28 16:34:32 <ka6sox> the question really is "is that pin safe to do so"
May 28 16:34:44 <dwery> what's on that pin?
May 28 16:35:10 <ka6sox> that is the question...can the application *know* that its safe to reconfigure that pin.
May 28 16:35:40 <dwery> wel.. if the pin is claimed, it is not
May 28 16:35:55 <panto> right
May 28 16:36:06 <panto> that information is in /sys/kernel/debug/pinmux
May 28 16:36:40 <panto> ka6sox, on the 3.8 kernel there's no way to 'take' away a pin from a driver that claimed it
May 28 16:36:40 <bhanu> hello
May 28 16:37:10 <bhanu> i am unable to access usb hub in beaglebone black
May 28 16:37:17 * KotH survived the flood... or has returned from the dead
May 28 16:37:38 <ka6sox> okay so a new dtbo can't overlay and take control of the pin after its been claimed by someone else?
May 28 16:38:03 <ka6sox> bhanu, I don't understand  your statement...what hub?
May 28 16:38:11 <dwery> capemgr would kill the new dtbo
May 28 16:38:54 <ka6sox> whoops...
May 28 16:39:17 <dwery> if you declare that you need that pin :D
May 28 16:39:27 <panto> if the cape resources are stated correctly, the conflicting dtbo will not be loaded
May 28 16:39:46 <bhanu> how to do that?
May 28 16:39:57 <fiola> bhanu: Tail the system logfile with "journalctl -f", then plug in your hub to the BBB's host port.  Does anything appear on the end of the log output?
May 28 16:40:01 <ka6sox> bhanu, I don't understand your question.
May 28 16:40:05 <panto> bhanu, what does it mean?
May 28 16:40:25 <bhanu> ha
May 28 16:40:29 <ka6sox> the BBB pre-allocates almost every pin on P8 to "internal onboard things"
May 28 16:40:59 <dwery> ka6sox: if you have a cape, it will be loaded before internal things
May 28 16:41:06 <dwery> and you can claim the pins you need
May 28 16:41:41 <dwery> (at least before hdmi and emmc)
May 28 16:41:50 <ka6sox> dwery, what I've been hearing is that people want to be able to, hook up random stuff that is NOT a cape... a W1 sensor or something else.
May 28 16:41:58 * KotH blinks
May 28 16:42:00 <bhanu> when i connect mouse or keyboard to BBB, they are working. but when i connet them via usb hub, they are not working. how to install driver of the usb hub?
May 28 16:42:00 <ka6sox> the issue is that they are being forced to "create a cape"
May 28 16:42:12 <KotH> there is an IEEE standard for piezo electricity
May 28 16:42:31 <dwery> ka6sox: I'm not sure if you can fake a cape via software before the automatic loading stuff
May 28 16:42:39 <dwery> but you can remove the dtbos from /lib/firmware
May 28 16:43:01 <ka6sox> what I think they want to do if I'm understanding this is:
May 28 16:43:06 <fiola> bhanu: No need to install a driver almost ever, hubs are almost always USB class-compliant.
May 28 16:43:13 <ka6sox> 1) unload the offending DTS
May 28 16:43:31 <fiola> bhanu: in other words, the driver is already built in.
May 28 16:43:34 <ka6sox> 2) create a "virtual cape" dtbo to load
May 28 16:43:43 <ka6sox> 3)profit
May 28 16:43:52 <bhanu> fiola: then what to do?
May 28 16:43:59 <panto> ka6sox, yeah, exactly
May 28 16:44:00 <bhanu> how to make it work
May 28 16:44:02 <dwery> ka6sox: I think that point 1 should be "remove offending dtbo" and reboot
May 28 16:44:05 <fiola> bhanu: Tail the system logfile with "journalctl -f", then plug in your hub to the BBB's host port.  Does anything appear on the end of the log output?
May 28 16:44:20 <dwery> I'm not sure if you can remove a dtbo at runtime
May 28 16:44:21 <bhanu> have to check
May 28 16:44:23 <panto> if the hdmi/emmc capes are in the way, just disable them
May 28 16:44:42 <panto> pass a capemgr.disable_partno=FOO command line to kernel
May 28 16:44:44 <bhanu> @ fiola : have to check, currently i don't have hdmi
May 28 16:45:10 <ka6sox> panto, how do you do that to the eMMC based upon boot order
May 28 16:45:18 <fiola> bhanu: Do you have serial console?
May 28 16:45:23 <ka6sox> I've seen a suggestion of removing any MLOs from the flash
May 28 16:45:42 <ka6sox> s/flash/emmc/
May 28 16:45:56 <bhanu> @ fiola: yah
May 28 16:46:08 <panto> ka6sox, if you disable the emmc it will try loading from sdcard
May 28 16:46:11 <ka6sox> at this point you still need to hold the eMMC in reset with the GPIO still right?
May 28 16:46:32 <panto> ka6sox, not entirely
May 28 16:46:55 <fiola> bhanu:  Perfect.  Log in as root, then look at the system log as above.  Then plug in the hub.  The log should show that the hub is recognized (or not).
May 28 16:47:02 <panto> not all the pins of emmc are used if there's no driver to start the emmc
May 28 16:47:50 <bhanu> @ fiola: my email ID is bhanuprakash0501@gmail.com
May 28 16:47:58 <bhanu> send me a test mail
May 28 16:48:01 <dwery> ka6sox: and you also have capemgr.extra_override to add a sw cape
May 28 16:48:45 <bhanu> @ fiola : i am new to BBB. I want some from you. I hope you can help me. I will not disturb you much
May 28 16:49:11 <fiola> Helping you here, can't do more.
May 28 16:49:59 <ka6sox> maybe I'm not looking at the right documentation for capemanager then: http://www.elinux.org/Capemgr
May 28 16:50:05 <ka6sox> because I didn't see that.
May 28 16:50:23 <bhanu> @ fiola : thank you. No problem. how to connect BBB via serail console. I mean, what are the buad rates, etc..
May 28 16:50:38 <bhanu> can i have a snap of the pin discription?
May 28 16:51:05 <ka6sox> bhanu, I think that information is in the System Refrence Manual for the BBB
May 28 16:51:27 <bhanu> thank you, ka6sox
May 28 16:51:30 <ka6sox> yw
May 28 16:51:35 <bhanu> i need some basics abt bbb
May 28 16:51:42 <bhanu> where can i find them?
May 28 16:51:43 <ka6sox> they are all there :)
May 28 16:51:47 <dwery> ka6sox: maybe that's old
May 28 16:52:18 <ka6sox> is there a better place to find the documentation?
May 28 16:52:41 <ka6sox> bhanu, the beagleboard.org site has that.
May 28 16:53:12 <fiola> bhanu: Any terminal emulator on any operating system will do.  On Linux, I use the FTDI TTL-232R-3V3 USB adapter, and I run on Linux:   picocom -b 115200 -p n -d 8 -e g /dev/ttyUSB0
May 28 16:53:35 <fiola> bhanu: But there are a million other ways to do it.
May 28 16:54:07 <ka6sox> dwery, seems what we need is something that explains how to:
May 28 16:54:18 <ka6sox> create a dtbo for your "cape"
May 28 16:54:29 <ka6sox> and how to make sure you don't conflict
May 28 16:55:10 <ka6sox> panto, I'll look and see what pins are "safe" during boot with the emmc not being the boot device
May 28 16:55:43 <thurgood> ok, denx is uboot.. what about MLO itself?
May 28 16:56:04 <fiola> bhanu: The serial console connection is described on section 7.5, p.76 of the BBB manual.
May 28 16:57:13 <fiola> The black wire is pin 1 and needs to line up with the dot printed on the PCB at one end of the 6-pin serial header, simple as that.
May 28 16:57:53 <fiola> For any other adapter, you'll need to check the pinout yourself.
May 28 16:58:02 <bhanu> hm
May 28 16:58:09 <ka6sox> dwery, the pinmuxing is confusing enough...the whole dtbo creation and management thing is another kettle of fish.
May 28 16:58:17 <dwery> yep
May 28 16:59:19 <m_billybob> guys, name of the bootable USB stick BSD that does file shares ? *forgets*
May 28 17:00:17 <dwery> ka6sox: there are nice examples on http://hipstercircuits.com
May 28 17:03:40 <dwery> koen: committed my final changes, it should be all ok for my cape
May 28 17:04:13 <dwery> it think we might want to store all the sw capes somewhere (enable spi, pwm, hdmi, etc)
May 28 17:04:27 <panto> send it to me or koen
May 28 17:04:47 <panto> I think it's a good idea to be in the standard image, since people seem to have such a hard time
May 28 17:04:59 <dwery> panto: ok, I'll send my enable-hdmi cape
May 28 17:06:31 <ka6sox> panto, what I think people are asking for is enable W1 *and* assign it to GPIOx_7
May 28 17:06:33 <ka6sox> grr
May 28 17:06:40 <ka6sox> GPIOx_y
May 28 17:06:53 <dwery> panto: https://gist.github.com/5664326
May 28 17:07:07 <panto> ka6sox, yes, understood
May 28 17:07:12 <ka6sox> so they need to understand both the driver definition and pinmuxing bits.
May 28 17:07:26 <panto> I would go for simple canned configs
May 28 17:07:28 <dwery> that one is surely useful: http://hipstercircuits.com/enable-serialuarttty-on-beaglebone-black/
May 28 17:07:38 <dwery> it's enable-uart5
May 28 17:08:10 <panto> i.e. echo BBB-UART1 >slots and away you go
May 28 17:08:19 <panto> echo BBB-I2C1 etc
May 28 17:08:26 <dwery> /dev/spi1 here http://hipstercircuits.com/enable-spi-1-0-and-1-1-with-device-tre-overlays-on-beaglebone/
May 28 17:08:47 <dwery> we can have them in a git repo
May 28 17:08:50 * mdp imagines all those examples on elinux.org...
May 28 17:08:53 <dwery> capemgr update
May 28 17:08:58 <dwery> capemgr load spidev
May 28 17:09:14 <dwery> or something like that
May 28 17:09:29 <panto> well, there's no user-space component at all
May 28 17:09:32 <dwery> not now
May 28 17:09:34 <mdp> dwery, that was suggested a couple times before too, would be ideal for beginners
May 28 17:09:44 <dwery> I think it would save a lot of support issues
May 28 17:09:45 <panto> so capemgr could be just alias=echo >...
May 28 17:09:47 <mdp> dwery, to have some stock dtbos for common user cases
May 28 17:09:54 <dwery> mos of people is rpi like.. ya know..
May 28 17:10:09 <dwery> panto: exactly
May 28 17:10:16 <legov> I'm working on a custom platform very similar in design to the BeagleBoard-xM.  I cannot get it to stable at 800 or 1 GHz.
May 28 17:10:30 <dwery> legov: reduce your MHz
May 28 17:10:31 <legov> I can adjust the frequency of the processor, but it crashes the kernel.
May 28 17:10:39 <mdp> dwery, it also creates new support woes as people load conflicting dtbos and wonder why they don't work
May 28 17:10:49 <panto> legov, stop doing that then
May 28 17:10:50 <legov> The processor is spec'd for 1 GHz.  We need it higher (and the DSP) for what we're doing.
May 28 17:11:17 <dwery> legov: who built the platform?
May 28 17:11:19 <panto> err, 1GHz is the limit AFAIKT
May 28 17:11:27 <legov> SmartReflex says it's enabled but we are reading the register that indicates the VDD1, the voltage isn't adjusting as the frequency increases.
May 28 17:11:29 <mdp> panto, with ABB
May 28 17:11:37 <ka6sox> panto, the question comes about things like i2c1 which can come out on several sets of pins...how do you resolve that?
May 28 17:11:38 <panto> yes
May 28 17:11:42 <dwery> mdp: right, but most of those capes would work together.. and the sw can simply give a "conflicting cape" error
May 28 17:11:46 <panto> ka6sox, I don't
May 28 17:12:08 <panto> pick up the most common definition
May 28 17:12:19 <panto> the other configs are named differently
May 28 17:12:19 <mdp> dwery, talking about arbitrary dtbos for people doing spidev, i2c-dev, gpio fiddling
May 28 17:12:20 <legov> dwery: we designed it in house.  it's similar to beaglboard-xm, very similar to http://www.logicpd.com/products/system-on-modules/zoom-dm3730-som-lv/
May 28 17:12:31 <panto> i.e. default BB-I2C1
May 28 17:12:37 <dwery> people that can understand the fact than you can route pins in sw can probably understand pinmux too
May 28 17:12:39 <panto> alt-1 BB-I2C1ALT1
May 28 17:12:40 <ka6sox> okay so use the common one as a template and create your own dtbo
May 28 17:12:40 <mdp> dwery, it helps, but be very clear that people will still run into problems
May 28 17:12:45 <legov> It looks like SmartReflex is 'enabled' but not actually working, becuase the voltage should be adjusting based on the frequency
May 28 17:12:46 <ka6sox> panto, makes sense
May 28 17:12:47 <panto> alt-2 BB-I2C1ALT2
May 28 17:12:48 <dwery> mdp: absolutely.
May 28 17:12:56 <mdp> dwery, you'd be surprised at house confusing pinmuxing is to many people
May 28 17:13:00 <mdp> s/house/how/
May 28 17:13:10 <ka6sox> mdp, +1
May 28 17:13:14 <dwery> mdp: that's why I'd try to hide it :D
May 28 17:13:14 <panto> yeah
May 28 17:13:27 <dwery> you tell them there's no pinmux and that I2C1 only goes to that pin :D
May 28 17:13:30 <mdp> dwery, especially in the context of the gpio IP direction versus pinmux receiver/etc.
May 28 17:13:31 <panto> especially for people coming from arduinos or something
May 28 17:13:36 <legov> We are using Logic PD's linux build and I've been working on correcting the kernel to support 1 GHz core but so far no luck
May 28 17:13:46 <ka6sox> do we have a bunch of "stock" dtbo's that people can load...with different alternatives.
May 28 17:13:46 <mdp> dwery, however you hide it will be wrong at some point
May 28 17:13:55 <dwery> that's for sur
May 28 17:13:56 <legov> Anyone have any advice?  I can't just patch the kernel because it's a custom fork.
May 28 17:13:56 <dwery> e
May 28 17:14:15 <panto> no idea
May 28 17:14:16 <dwery> legov: if you designed it, you have your own kernel
May 28 17:14:18 <dwery> and you can path it
May 28 17:14:19 <legov> Beagleboard 1 GHz implementations only enable the frequency but do nothing with SmartReflex
May 28 17:14:26 <mdp> it's ok to have simple helpers..with the understanding that they break when you try to do something more complicated
May 28 17:14:47 <legov> dwery: I can't find any sources for a proper patch
May 28 17:14:58 <dwery> where did you get that kernel?
May 28 17:15:11 <panto> legov, you better contact your kernel provider
May 28 17:15:12 <legov> Logic PD linkx from above, it's 3.0
May 28 17:15:34 <dwery> bzzzt wrong. you don't do your own board with a kernel you don't have sources for
May 28 17:15:36 <ka6sox> mdp, there are only certain pins that support i2c1 so there are only a few alternatives...
May 28 17:15:39 <legov> I'm willing to try anothre kernel, I just don't know where to go
May 28 17:15:46 <mdp> ka6sox, no. it's been suggested before..would be ideal for various common cases, but tbh, how would you do gpio? ;)
May 28 17:15:59 <mdp> ka6sox, like I said, you can do some helpful common cases
May 28 17:16:00 <ka6sox> GPIO is the one that breaks everything...right
May 28 17:16:01 <dwery> legov: I guess you will have to hire someone to build a proper kernel for your board
May 28 17:16:15 <mdp> ka6sox, most spi/i2c stuff I work with also needs gpio for something
May 28 17:16:25 <legov> I can figure it out.  Just hoping someone hear had experience with getting the beagleboard at 1 GHz
May 28 17:16:31 <legov> or can point me in the right direction to get the voltage adjustment
May 28 17:16:38 <dwery> legov: I think it's not a common case
May 28 17:16:43 <legov> I know the solution and I can figure out an implementation.  I'm lokoing for advice on the approach.
May 28 17:16:43 <panto> legov, IIRC 1GHz on the xm is risky on a good day
May 28 17:16:51 <dwery> you might try to play with the appropriate registers
May 28 17:16:53 <panto> more than that, and you're off to uncharted waters
May 28 17:16:53 <legov> still ?
May 28 17:16:56 <koen> with ABB it will be safe
May 28 17:16:57 <legov> even with the latest kernel?
May 28 17:16:58 <dwery> but I wouldn't run that at 1GHz anyway
May 28 17:17:03 <legov> Is there a build with SR/ABB?
May 28 17:17:08 <koen> but 2.6.32 is the last kernel with ABB support
May 28 17:17:13 <panto> koen, yes, ABB only
May 28 17:17:51 <legov> koen: where can I find that?
May 28 17:18:13 <legov> is it in mainline?
May 28 17:18:16 <koen> internet archive or something
May 28 17:18:20 <koen> it's old
May 28 17:18:21 <koen> heh
May 28 17:18:27 <legov> Hmm
May 28 17:18:28 <koen> abb has never been in mainline
May 28 17:18:29 <mdp> sunsite
May 28 17:18:35 <panto> mdp, +1 lol
May 28 17:18:38 <dwery> mdp, ka6sox: or maybe just one cape with i2c, spi, a couple of 1w and a bunch of gpios.. that would be helpful forhobbysts
May 28 17:18:47 <legov> So everyone running their Beagleboard at 1 GHz is going at it in a hackish/risky way?
May 28 17:18:57 <legov> That's the understanding I got, but I wanted to make sure that's the current state of development.
May 28 17:19:05 <mdp> dwery, could be some overlap with a gsoc project here
May 28 17:19:08 <legov> This is for a production product.
May 28 17:19:17 <panto> legov, we know that ubuntu kernels run at 1GHz
May 28 17:19:33 <panto> but they risk shortening the life of the silicon
May 28 17:19:42 <koen> panto: last I checked they ran at 800Mhz
May 28 17:19:50 <legov> of course, but the silicon is spec'd t run at X voltage and 1 GHz
May 28 17:19:52 <koen> (which also is unsafe, but still)
May 28 17:19:53 <dwery> mdp: didn't know there's a gsoc in the wild
May 28 17:19:58 <panto> koen, I think we had customers that run it at 1GHz
May 28 17:20:04 <legov> the chip i have is rated for 1 GHz operation
May 28 17:20:09 <legov> Dm3730
May 28 17:20:09 <panto> maybe they've patched, dunno
May 28 17:20:16 <panto> legov, with ABB
May 28 17:20:35 <panto> the best solution would be to get the sources of the kernel you run now
May 28 17:20:52 <dwery> which should be doanle, under GPL
May 28 17:20:52 <panto> and hire someone to forward port ABB to it
May 28 17:21:05 <legov> ABB is just voltage regulation
May 28 17:21:16 <koen> not "just"
May 28 17:21:25 <dwery> never understimate ABB
May 28 17:21:52 <panto> ABB makes killer electrical equipment too
May 28 17:21:56 <panto> but that's a different ABB
May 28 17:21:58 <koen> there were ABB patches posted for 3.9
May 28 17:22:14 <panto> koen, +1
May 28 17:22:57 <legov> Thanks guys
May 28 17:22:59 <mdp> dwery, hrm? https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/project/google/gsoc2013/anujdeshpande92/51001
May 28 17:23:06 <panto> perhaps backward porting those would be easier
May 28 17:23:12 <panto> use the beagleboard.org xm kernel
May 28 17:24:01 <Sy_> Hello, I see from the installed software that there is an ftp server already installed, are they're any FAQ's on how to setup?
May 28 17:24:02 <legov> Here's my plan.  If the chip is rated for up to 1.35V, I'll set the register to that, and try to increase the clock (all within the spec).  This will reduce lifespan of the chip, but it's still within the thresholds.
May 28 17:24:25 <panto> the whole exercise might be tricky, get your kernel provider to do it for you
May 28 17:24:26 <legov> Do you all see a problem with this approach? Will this break anything else? Am I missing anything I need to account for?
May 28 17:24:49 <panto> ABB is more than that
May 28 17:24:53 <legov> I know
May 28 17:25:00 <panto> you really need it for 1GHz
May 28 17:25:03 <legov> Ok
May 28 17:25:14 <legov> beagleboard.org has a kernel with ABB support?
May 28 17:25:33 <panto> who knows your scheme might work on some parts, fail mysteriously with other
May 28 17:25:53 <panto> no, but it has a much more recent kernel
May 28 17:26:05 <panto> so back-porting the ABB patches posted for 3.9 would be easier
May 28 17:26:16 <legov> I see
May 28 17:26:25 <panto> again, you need to talk to your kernel provider
May 28 17:26:45 <legov> They don't have 1 GHz working :\
May 28 17:26:55 <legov> But we need it to capture and encode 720p
May 28 17:27:09 <legov> Core clock is one thing, DSP clock is another.  Increasing both would be ideal.
May 28 17:27:16 <legov> They're both running below spec.
May 28 17:27:52 <panto> you can always hire something to do it for you
May 28 17:28:10 <panto> this channel might have people that would be able to do it
May 28 17:28:14 <panto> *someone
May 28 17:28:28 <panto> hehe
May 28 17:29:48 <dwery> legov: even if they do not have it working, they could give you the sources
May 28 17:29:53 <dwery> and it would be a starting point
May 28 17:30:35 <NoProblem> Hey I just install lighttpd on BBB but still seen bone101 so i did systemctl disable bone101.service  which didn't work any suggestions
May 28 17:33:04 <Tey> mru, are you there right now?
May 28 17:34:31 <KotH> Tey: no, he is probably overthere ->
May 28 17:35:05 <NoProblem> Hey anytakers
May 28 17:35:16 <Tey> ^,°
May 28 17:35:26 <KotH> NoProblem: "does not work" is not an error description
May 28 17:35:39 <Tey> Well, ive made my SD cards partition bootable, but still get printed "C
May 28 17:35:47 <Sy_> Has anyone got an FTP server running on BBB?
May 28 17:36:05 <KotH> Tey: there is a documentation on these boot codes somewhere
May 28 17:36:16 <KotH> Tey: and how to build a proper boot image
May 28 17:36:23 <KotH> Tey: oh.. and try a different sd card
May 28 17:36:43 <KotH> Sy_: running an ftp server on the bbb is the same as running an ftp on any unix system
May 28 17:36:48 <dm8tbr> Sy_: why? you can just scp/sftp
May 28 17:36:57 <KotH> Sy_: read the docu of the ftp server you have installed
May 28 17:36:59 <dm8tbr> or rsync or sshfs
May 28 17:37:05 <NoProblem> KotH:  true, when I start lighttpd it says port 80 being  used
May 28 17:37:19 <Tey> koth, is there any special brand you can tell thats working for sure?
May 28 17:37:47 <KotH> Tey: the cheap noname crap from the shop at the street corner usualy works :)
May 28 17:37:49 <Tey> i couldnt find a proper boot image documentation yet
May 28 17:37:58 <KotH> Tey: buy 3-4 different ones, different "brands" and try each
May 28 17:37:59 <Sy_> as far as I can see there are two ftp servers already installed on the BBB, one of the openssh-sftp doesn't follow the same set-up as I've read online there is no sshd_config in /etc/ssh
May 28 17:38:05 <KotH> Tey: cheaper than getting a brand one and failing ;)
May 28 17:38:24 <Sy_> the other is gvfsd-ftp
May 28 17:38:24 <KotH> Sy_: sftp != ftp
May 28 17:38:36 <KotH> gvfsd-ftp != ftp
May 28 17:38:40 <Sy_> isn't it, I thought it was ftp, but the secure variant
May 28 17:38:54 <KotH> Sy_: read what they are, then come back again
May 28 17:39:36 <Sy_> According to google sftp is secure ftp, which is what I thought it was
May 28 17:39:46 <KotH> that's its name
May 28 17:39:55 <KotH> its behaviour on protocol level is different
May 28 17:40:21 <KotH> you wouldnt bite into your laptop, just because it's called "apple" would you?
May 28 17:40:40 <Sy_> I realise that, however what I'm asking is how do I set-it up, as the doc I found for openssh-sftp talks about sshd_config which doesn't exist in Angstrom build
May 28 17:40:42 <KotH> take a bite of*
May 28 17:41:01 <NoProblem> KotH: ok let me the question differently how do you stop and disable bone101 on the BBB
May 28 17:41:06 <KotH> Sy_: read up on ssh
May 28 17:41:11 <KotH> Sy_: get a default config
May 28 17:41:21 <KotH> Sy_: if all else fails: READ MANUAL
May 28 17:41:53 <KotH> NoProblem: i would guess that it is the command you have shown... sorry, dont know anything about systemd
May 28 17:42:18 <NoProblem> Ok
May 28 17:42:29 <Sy_> I use ssh all the time at work to talk to our remote devices, its a remote shell like telnet, different protoco
May 28 17:42:30 <KotH> meh... i shouldnt answer n00b questions when i'm grumpy
May 28 17:42:32 <Sy_> *l
May 28 17:42:41 <KotH> Sy_, NoProblem: sorry for my rudenes
May 28 17:42:49 <fiola> Sy_: If you really want ftp, it boils down to three questions: 1) Is ftp already installed?  2) If not, is it available as an Angstrom package?  3) And if no to both, which is the best portable FTP package to install from source.
May 28 17:43:06 <Sy_> NP, I'm not a noob either, might be noob to BBB, but lots of experience on other systems
May 28 17:43:32 * KotH goes off to get some dead animals on his plate
May 28 17:49:59 <dm8tbr> mmm, tasty sliced and roasted animals
May 28 17:51:32 <fiola> Sy_: If it comes down to option 3), I see a whole pile of FTP servers in Gentoo's portage.  I don't have any installed, but at least 4 of them sound generic and portable from the descriptions, so could give you links.  But try options 1) and 2) first.
May 28 17:52:17 <backjlack> Could someone tell me what Ethernet hardware the Beaglebone is using, please? I'd like to know what driver is needed if possible.
May 28 17:52:52 <jacekowski> usb as far as i know
May 28 17:53:07 <bradfa> backjlack, SMSC lan 8710/8720
May 28 17:53:10 <bradfa> is the PHY
May 28 17:53:18 <bradfa> and CPSW is the MAC hardware inside the am335x
May 28 17:53:55 <bradfa> backjlack, see am335x trm and the bone schematics to see how it's setup
May 28 17:54:00 <backjlack> bradfa: Ok, thank you for telling me.
May 28 17:54:59 <levi> Technically, CPSW is a three-port switch with two MACs and a host DMA (CPDMA) interface.
May 28 17:55:24 <panto> err, ethernet on the bone is a real gige eth controller
May 28 17:55:39 <bradfa> well, true
May 28 17:55:42 <panto> but is configured for 100MB
May 28 17:55:47 <panto> *Mb
May 28 17:55:57 <panto> so no ethernet over usb
May 28 17:56:08 <panto> bradfa, hey
May 28 17:56:27 <jacekowski> i think he was asking about beaglebone, not black
May 28 17:56:28 <bradfa> howdy panto :)
May 28 17:56:36 <bradfa> jacekowski, it's the same hardware
May 28 17:56:43 <panto> your driver patches for tps65217 make the power button work
May 28 17:56:53 <bradfa> ooo, I do something useful! hurray!
May 28 17:56:54 <bradfa> :)
May 28 17:56:58 <panto> hehe
May 28 17:57:10 <backjlack> jacekowski: I was asking about the black, actually. I thought they were similar.
May 28 17:57:13 <bradfa> probably needed some love for device tree, I'd expect, and making the mask work on the interrupt, though
May 28 17:57:16 <panto> put in a few dt bindings and it just worked
May 28 17:57:24 <bradfa> cool
May 28 17:58:23 <bradfa> panto, is the updated patch in github?
May 28 17:58:30 <bradfa> I'm failing to remember where things go
May 28 17:58:30 <panto> yes
May 28 17:59:09 <bradfa> k, will take a looksee
May 28 17:59:33 <bradfa> ah, found it
May 28 17:59:34 <bradfa> nice
May 28 17:59:39 <panto> https://github.com/pantoniou/linux-bbxm/commit/1a1a660a971fe61d1738e542214460539dcfba17
May 28 18:00:59 <bradfa> glad something useful came from my throwing that over the wall
May 28 18:01:02 <mranostay> bradfa: hey fuzzy photo dude
May 28 18:01:13 <bradfa> howdy mranostay
May 28 18:01:45 <bradfa> mranostay, I like your new apartment
May 28 18:03:13 <mranostay> yes it is rather nice isn't it
May 28 18:03:14 <bradfa> oh how I f-ing hate my.ti
May 28 18:03:25 <mranostay> ph0rums?
May 28 18:04:28 <mranostay> bradfa: you could switch to Intel parts :P
May 28 18:05:16 <bradfa> mranostay, I hear they have awesome boot systems these days
May 28 18:06:19 <bradfa> gah! pushing back button on my.ti site after reqeusting password reset does another password reset request...
May 28 18:06:22 <bradfa> inbox has like 12
May 28 18:06:32 <bradfa> ti, please hire some freaking web site people!
May 28 18:07:47 <Sy_> Got SFTP working, actually didn't require any effort at all, installed WinSCP which supports SFTP and connected to BBB.
May 28 18:09:51 <dm8tbr> that's what I meant :)
May 28 18:12:15 * _av500_ winces
May 28 18:12:32 <Sy_> another problem which I've posted on the forums, how to configure the firewall to allow mySQL remote access?  I've created an iptables file in /etc/sysconfig with the following content: *filter :INPUT ACCEPT [32:2424] :FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0] :OUTPUT ACCEPT [25:2380] -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 3306 -j ACCEPT COMMIT
May 28 18:12:55 <Sy_> but I'm not sure if its correct, I cannot connect to mySQL server running on BBB remotely
May 28 18:15:13 <panto> dinner
May 28 18:16:22 <ka6sox> Dinner good.
May 28 18:16:27 <ka6sox> leters panto
May 28 18:16:52 <Rickta59> ka6sox, you are letting that 11 year old slack off .. get out the whip
May 28 18:17:14 <fiola> Sy_: Well done for getting it working :-)
May 28 18:17:28 <ka6sox> Rickta59, yesterday was a pool party...he needed to be a kid :)
May 28 18:17:46 <ka6sox> today...Cracking the whip (after school()
May 28 18:17:53 <Rickta59> excellent
May 28 18:18:14 <ka6sox> he needs some help with regex and javascript...
May 28 18:18:19 <Sy_> Found something on firewall set-up... http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/AngstromManual
May 28 18:18:37 <ka6sox> so I'm encouraging him to put it out on his github and ask for help from the community
May 28 18:18:39 <fiola> Sy_:  Which sftp package on the BBB is that working with?
May 28 18:18:46 <kfoltman> does the default angstrom distro have oprofile in it? (I only see the kernel module for it)
May 28 18:19:23 <Sy_> I didn't install anything, so it's working with whatever is installed vanilla
May 28 18:19:24 <Rickta59> when my youngster was 11 he was building vrml worlds : ) .. no one knew he was 11
May 28 18:20:48 <KotH> when i was 11, it was still another 8 years until i got a computer ^^'
May 28 18:21:00 <Sy_> The firewall file contains:  iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 3306 -j ACCEPT
May 28 18:21:22 <fiola> Sy_: I guess that's package openssh-sftp-server then.
May 28 18:21:27 <Sy_> it says to create symbolic links in rc3.d and rc5.d, but doesn't say what to call them or what to point them too.
May 28 18:21:59 <KotH> Sy_: does the mysql server listen on the port _and_ ip you want to connect to?
May 28 18:23:07 <Sy_> yes, I've set-it up using a configuration which I've used before on Centos servers that works with remote access.
May 28 18:23:19 <KotH> Sy_: that was not the question
May 28 18:23:25 <KotH> Sy_: does it _listen_ there
May 28 18:24:24 <Sy_> I haven't specified that it should listen to any specific IP, with the configuration I have it should accept an authenticated connection from any IP
May 28 18:24:36 <fiola> netstat -a | grep LISTEN
May 28 18:25:26 <KotH> Sy_: you assume that your configuration file is correctly read, parsed and interpreted as you think it should be
May 28 18:25:41 <KotH> Sy_: when hunting down problems, you should check whether this is actually the case or not
May 28 18:25:45 <Sy_> I think so, no errors and mysqld is running
May 28 18:25:52 <fiola> If that's too slow, faster as    netstat -na | grep LISTEN
May 28 18:27:09 <Sy_> I have two BBB's both configured the same, both configured with mySQL server to run with High Availability set-up, just need to get them talking to each other :)
May 28 18:27:38 <Sy_> Also trying to get Heartbeat running on them with floating IP
May 28 18:27:53 <ka6sox> Rickta59, mine makes minecraft mods...but 11yr olds *do* that too...
May 28 18:28:37 <ka6sox> the funny bit is that he gave a presentation at the local LUG about using Blender..and had 3 requests for him to teach @ other groups too...
May 28 18:28:43 <fiola> Sy_: Well can you connect from one to the other?  A simple telnet the ip:port from one to the other and vice versa will tell you.
May 28 18:29:00 <mru> ka6sox: kids are so spoiled these days...
May 28 18:29:04 <mru> when _I_ was 11...
May 28 18:29:05 <Sy_> when the netstat returns I'll give it a go
May 28 18:29:16 <YoMomma> Anyone know if rasbian will run on the beagle bone black?
May 28 18:29:17 <Rickta59> we had vibrating football games at 11
May 28 18:29:32 <fiola> Sy_: abort it, name resolution not needed.  Just -na
May 28 18:29:44 <ka6sox> Rickta59, OMG...I remember those...
May 28 18:30:29 <bradfa> YoMomma, why not just use real Debian?
May 28 18:30:35 <bradfa> armhf works nicely
May 28 18:30:41 <bradfa> no need for armv6 bs
May 28 18:30:47 <Sy_> Tried telnet BBB2:3306, get Connection refused, which tells me its a firewall issue
May 28 18:31:00 <Rickta59> how about the ip address Sy_
May 28 18:31:04 <mru> or simply that nothing is listening on that address
May 28 18:31:25 <Sy_> It resolves the name to the IP correctly, reports the IP in the error message, will try it tho now.
May 28 18:31:44 <Sy_> same msg, connection refused
May 28 18:32:55 <Sy_> Got a feeling it needs a reboot to complete the firewall configuration and the sym.links in rc3.d and rc5.d, but not sure what they should be.
May 28 18:33:46 <fiola> Sy_: if that reject was on the same box then it's not likely to be a firewall issue, unless you have some pretty wierd rules.  If it was from another box, move to the target boix first and try it there.
May 28 18:34:02 <fiola> But easy to confirm, just drop the firewall.
May 28 18:34:44 <Sy_> what do you mean drop firewall?
May 28 18:34:52 <Sy_> stop it?, how?
May 28 18:34:57 <Karlo> Hi,
May 28 18:36:03 <Karlo> can anybody help me with a ssh problem? I get ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
May 28 18:36:03 <m_billybob> sounds like what mru said to me
May 28 18:36:23 <m_billybob> nothign listening for that protocol or on the give nport
May 28 18:37:10 <m_billybob> Karlo, GateONe ?
May 28 18:37:48 <Karlo> Billybob what means GateOne?
May 28 18:37:55 <fiola> Sy_: if you don't have a stop script (there is in most distros), then you'll have to do it long-hand.  iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT; iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT; iptables -P OUTPUT ACCEPT;  ..... and more required for tidiness, but that'll do.
May 28 18:38:04 <m_billybob> Karlo, i've heard word of mouth that dropbear on some installs contains a dropbear configuration null file
May 28 18:38:18 <m_billybob> Karlo, the web interface ssh client
May 28 18:38:30 <Karlo> I cant login to show that file
May 28 18:38:43 <m_billybob> new out of the box bbb ?
May 28 18:38:44 <fiola> Sy_: Lemme find you a script.  But this has to be in systemd somewhere, guaranteed.
May 28 18:39:15 <Karlo> I get the beagle 2 hours ago
May 28 18:39:36 <Sy_> I've typed those into both systems, still getting Connection refused
May 28 18:39:45 <m_billybob> Karlo, which OS are you using for your PC host ?
May 28 18:40:07 <Karlo> debian
May 28 18:40:21 <fiola> Sy_: bingo ---> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-iptables-how-to-flush-all-rules.html    --- and just replace all iptables by ip6tables for IPv6
May 28 18:40:46 <m_billybob> Karlo so the beagle does not show up as a mass storage device in debian ?
May 28 18:41:25 <Karlo> yes, its show as amass stoage
May 28 18:41:52 <m_billybob> Karlo did you navigate to start.htm on that device ?
May 28 18:41:56 <fiola> Sy_:  kitchen calling for a few, back shortly
May 28 18:42:09 <Karlo> htm works
May 28 18:42:50 <Sy_> ok
May 28 18:42:53 <Sy_> ty for your help
May 28 18:43:17 <m_billybob> Karlo, ok so i guess it would be best you told us what you did so far.
May 28 18:44:52 <Karlo> I connect the beagle to usb and ethernet. The forum help me to figure ot the adress. then http 192.168.2.23 works but ssh not
May 28 18:45:36 <m_billybob> sounds lie the issue i spoke of above. whcih is a dropbear configuration file of size null
May 28 18:46:10 <Karlo> how i can access the file if ssh dont work?
May 28 18:46:18 <Rickta59> serial port
May 28 18:46:28 <Rickta59> minicom
May 28 18:46:39 <Karlo> The directory contains: drwx------ 5 kg   kg     1024 May 28 20:18 . drwxr-xr-x 5 root root   4096 May 28 19:00 .. drwx------ 2 kg   kg      512 Mar 18 13:48 App drwx------ 4 kg   kg     2048 Mar 18 13:48 Docs drwx------ 5 kg   kg      512 Mar 18 13:48 Drivers -rw-r--r-- 1 kg   kg       30 Mar 18 13:49 ID.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 kg   kg    41174 Mar 18 13:49 LICENSE.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 kg   kg    99904 Mar 18 13:43 MLO -rw-r--r-- 1 kg   kg      2
May 28 18:46:55 <m_billybob> create a bootable SD card and mount the emmc partitions ?
May 28 18:47:07 <Karlo> sorry: App   Drivers  LICENSE.txt  README.md  autorun.inf  uEnv.txt Docs  ID.txt   MLO	    START.htm  u-boot.img
May 28 18:47:29 <m_billybob> or what Rick said
May 28 18:47:49 <Karlo> I dont have a card now. Ithink the flasram contains a linux?
May 28 18:47:54 <kfoltman> is the htm file only viewable with Internet Explorer?
May 28 18:47:57 <m_billybob> so you're not seeign the ext4 rootfs part ?
May 28 18:48:10 <m_billybob> no it wont work with IE according to the instructions
May 28 18:49:02 <Karlo> i see some files, like START.htm, u-boot.img, but not a known linux tree
May 28 18:49:17 <ka6sox> Karlo, best to pastebin things like that as formatting gets messed up in IRC.
May 28 18:49:27 <m_billybob> yeah thats the vfat paritions e.g. boot part
May 28 18:49:32 <mastiff> is the IP address configured in the image or hardware?  Say when my BBBs were autodetected start page gives the IP address.  If the BBBs are reflashed and not  being detected, how to check IP?
May 28 18:50:25 <mastiff> They were 192.168.7.2 but now can't connect with SSH on that IP, should I expect a different IP after reflashing?
May 28 18:50:25 <m_billybob> mastiff by using an ip scanner on the local network, or if your router lists devices by IP perhaps
May 28 18:50:42 <m_billybob> well thats the USB TCP/IP interface
May 28 18:51:16 <mastiff> Yeah I could check on the router easily enough.  I'm compiling debian as per the eewiki link
May 28 18:51:52 <m_billybob> Karlo, anyhow short of having a serial cable, or using a uSD card to boot from so you could mount the emmc, and possibly get at the files im not sure how else that could be solved
May 28 18:52:41 <m_billybob> was *thinking* maybe that could be done from debian/linux using the mass storage device, but i have no tried it, and might not be possible anyhow
May 28 18:53:33 <Karlo> Biilyboy: If I get a card, how I can boot from her?
May 28 18:53:44 <m_billybob> well there is a third option, which also involses a sd card
May 28 18:54:19 <m_billybob> Karlo by doing somethign like this - > http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black
May 28 18:55:25 <Karlo> which cards are usable, only 4GB. Thanks for the link, bookmarked
May 28 18:55:31 <m_billybob> that is how to get a cross compile setup working linux ( i used debian myself ) to compile uboot and kernel and how to setup a workign rootfs on sd
May 28 18:55:39 <m_billybob> I used a 16GB card
May 28 18:55:54 <m_billybob> size isnt so important 4GB works too
May 28 18:56:03 <Karlo> thats better. :-) I by it tomorrow
May 28 18:56:10 <Karlo> buy
May 28 18:56:30 <m_billybob> -root@arm:~# df -h /
May 28 18:56:30 <m_billybob> -Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
May 28 18:56:30 <m_billybob> -/dev/root        15G  444M   14G   4% /
May 28 18:56:44 <m_billybob> thats the size of debian on my bbb so far
May 28 18:56:47 <m_billybob> really tiny
May 28 18:56:48 <Karlo> looks good. :-)
May 28 18:57:21 <koen> 444MB really tiny?
May 28 18:57:36 <m_billybob> base install is 374MB
May 28 18:57:38 <koen> I ran x + gtk in 16MB flash
May 28 18:57:45 <m_billybob> and for a fully usable debian yes
May 28 18:57:47 <koen> and even that isn't tiny
May 28 18:57:54 <Karlo> I downloadet today Angstrom-Cloud9-IDE-GNOME-eglibc-ipk-v2012.12-beaglebone-2013.05.24.img.xz
May 28 18:58:46 <kfoltman> koen: tiny for debian ;)
May 28 18:59:02 <m_billybob> koen, compared to production defaul install, yes it is tiny :)
May 28 18:59:34 <m_billybob> of course you know how large preloaded Angstrom *is* ;)
May 28 19:00:06 <koen> angstrom base install is 12MB including kernel
May 28 19:00:14 <zeta__> i need some help with python on beaglebone black
May 28 19:00:19 <koen> so what is in the other 362MB debian installs?
May 28 19:00:30 <m_billybob> wonder why it takes up 1.6GB on emmc then ?
May 28 19:00:31 <panto> RMS's tea recipes
May 28 19:00:57 <koen> m_billybob: gnome2 isn't in the base install
May 28 19:01:15 <koen> base install includes everything you need to connect to the internet and install packages
May 28 19:01:26 <m_billybob> is console-image the prefloaded install though ?
May 28 19:01:32 <m_billybob> preloaded*
May 28 19:01:55 <m_billybob> anyway i dont want to argue about it, im sure angstrom can be tiny too
May 28 19:02:57 <ogra_> you can get a debian base install running with ~80M .... ubuntu a little more
May 28 19:03:06 <kfoltman> m_billybob: it used to be; I was surprised when I started trying to cook my own and the dependencies were all the way to hell and back
May 28 19:03:08 <m_billybob> debootstrap ?
May 28 19:03:21 <ogra_> yes
May 28 19:04:03 <ogra_> --minbase and then add the needed networking bits
May 28 19:04:45 <m_billybob> been a while since ive messed with debootstrap, when i found RCNs instructions it was the path of least resistance
May 28 19:04:59 <m_billybob> and since im accustomed to debian .  ..
May 28 19:05:02 <ogra_> sure, i dont use that either :)
May 28 19:06:31 <m_billybob> kfoltman, yeah OE and bb make me want to go get my fingernails pulled, for some relaxation
May 28 19:07:38 <kfoltman> m_billybob: if your use case can be done using a minimal OS, I can definitely recommend buildroot
May 28 19:08:19 <m_billybob> which i may eventually have to read up on someday
May 28 19:08:39 <kfoltman> m_billybob: OE was, basically, wait and wait and wait - it is for a good reason, but that good reason might not be a good reason for you (and definitely isn't for me)
May 28 19:08:51 <m_billybob> for now i would like ot get accustomed to embedded linux, device tree, and how to setup i2c uart spi etc etc to my liking
May 28 19:09:42 <kfoltman> m_billybob: also, buildroot doesn't provide gcc on the target, so if you need that, it's probably out of the question
May 28 19:10:22 <m_billybob> kfoltman, right now it definately isnt. Using Yocto, it seems all that is much easier now. i actually gave OE a shot a few years back, and after a week i decided to give it a rest.
May 28 19:10:26 <kfoltman> well, you can cross-compile gcc on your own, but then again, you can cross-compile everything on your own
May 28 19:10:40 * m_billybob has two cross compile system setup atm
May 28 19:10:50 <m_billybob> debian and windows *cough*
May 28 19:10:57 <fiola> m_billybob: I'm not accustomed to Debian, but I have used it on several boxes over the years, and it's always done the job without problems so I'm expecting good things on BBB too.  Do you have the link for RCN's instructions?
May 28 19:11:20 <m_billybob> http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black
May 28 19:11:43 <m_billybob> fiola ^^^
May 28 19:12:05 <fiola> Oh I see, RCN == Robert, lol
May 28 19:12:08 <fiola> ^_^
May 28 19:12:11 <m_billybob> yeah
May 28 19:12:17 <m_billybob> lol Robert C Nelson
May 28 19:12:23 * fiola giggles and goes back to kitchen
May 28 19:13:15 <mastiff> i'm wishing i would have compiled on my I7 desktop instead of I3 laptop
May 28 19:13:48 <m_billybob> debian is always or has always been solid for me, and Im just used to it. So yeah, more my thing.
May 28 19:13:53 <mastiff> those eewiki instructions take a bit of time hehe
May 28 19:14:04 <ka6sox> mastiff, I don't build on the laptop unless I have to.
May 28 19:14:19 <m_billybob> with downloads it tok me roughly 4-5 hours, plus i screwed up a couple times . .
May 28 19:14:35 <mru> my laptop is actually faster than my desktop at some things
May 28 19:14:36 <Defiant> you can just copy kernel+bootloader from angstrom and make a debootstrap => debian installed
May 28 19:14:51 <mru> also much newer
May 28 19:14:57 <m_billybob> Defiant that can be daunting for the pwoer user sometimes though
May 28 19:15:23 <m_billybob> not sure how many linuxes users are accustomed to debootstrap / chroot
May 28 19:16:49 <m_billybob> mru mine is too, but mainly because twice the cores, and twicethe memory
May 28 19:17:04 <m_billybob> slower procesor frequency though
May 28 19:17:06 <m_billybob> like half
May 28 19:17:28 <mastiff> If you can't shutdown the BBB normally, should you eject the SD before or after cutting power?
May 28 19:17:31 <mru> both are quadcore here
May 28 19:17:39 <mru> but laptop is clocked a bit lower
May 28 19:17:50 <mru> otoh the ram is clocked higher
May 28 19:17:57 <mru> and it's a later generation cpu
May 28 19:18:06 <koen> mastiff: strangely enough: after
May 28 19:18:09 <mru> also ssd
May 28 19:18:18 <mastiff> ok
May 28 19:18:51 <m_billybob> well my stuff is semi dated desktop is Core2duo E6550 ( overclocked to 1:1 "FSB" and memory) laptop is an A6 3400M
May 28 19:19:25 <mastiff> Normally you just have to power on the BBB to boot correct?  You don't have to press any of the buttons after powering on?
May 28 19:19:43 <m_billybob> mastiff if you dont have any option you really dont have a choice
May 28 19:20:08 <m_billybob> but if you have shel access always use shutdown now -h to halt or -r to reboot
May 28 19:20:18 <mastiff> Yeah I'm just doing a bit of troubleshooting on these boards while waiting for debian to complile.
May 28 19:20:36 <mastiff> no shell access, and the BBB isn't talking to the router either
May 28 19:20:52 <m_billybob> what have you done most recently ?
May 28 19:21:51 <m_billybob> mastiff, if you're goign ot try the debian thing to see what happened by mounting the emmc fro man sd card I would make a couple of suggesitons
May 28 19:22:05 <fiola> If shutdown is sometimes flakey (hangs partway), then get used to the old timers' magic incantation of "sync; sync; sync; halt" instead.  The halt will likely take you into shutdown anyway and hang, but at least you'll haved sync'd out your dirty blocks.
May 28 19:22:08 <m_billybob> First make sure yo uhard code a static IP in interfaces
May 28 19:22:15 <mastiff> I was planning on just running debian once it's built.
May 28 19:22:44 <m_billybob> second, and for this YMMV. this kind of doesnt make sense, but you're using a local network router ?
May 28 19:23:23 <mastiff> laptop connected via wifi, and BBB plugged into laptop via USB, and router ethernet
May 28 19:23:33 <m_billybob> if so point resolve.conf -> nameserver to your router ip. again,  it doesnt make sense, but its solved a few issues for me in the past
May 28 19:23:47 <mru> fiola: and keep running sync until you _hear_ the disk do something, right?
May 28 19:24:12 <mastiff> see but I don't have any way of changing files on the BBB right now, can't boot off the internal or SD
May 28 19:25:26 <m_billybob> mastiff, once you gte those instructions working you'll have plenty of access on the host system you'regoign ot be writting the sd card from
May 28 19:25:35 <kfoltman> mru: are you testing a new MEMS eMMC? ;)
May 28 19:25:44 <fiola> mru: no, no need, it's only the first sync that isn't defined to return on flush completion.  The 2nd always will, and the 3rd is in the crucifix and garlic category.
May 28 19:26:48 <fiola> No guaranteed success though.  halt->shutdown can still create dirty blocks and result in lost inodes.
May 28 19:26:49 <mastiff> Hmm, just got my 2nd BBB to boot off the internal.
May 28 19:27:12 <mru> fiola: so sync and hard power off is the way to go
May 28 19:27:38 <mru> my dev boards all use nfs, so the sync isn't needed either
May 28 19:27:40 <panto> things improve if you boot with journal=data
May 28 19:27:49 <panto> oh, and use noatime
May 28 19:27:51 <m_billybob> so just $sync then *yank power* ?
May 28 19:27:55 <fiola> At least two, but more if you believe that not all is as it seems.
May 28 19:28:17 <mru> the syncs are not what they seem
May 28 19:29:03 <fiola> As I said, "sync; sync; sync; halt" was the mantra, and boy did we have flakey filestores in the early days.
May 28 19:29:35 <m_billybob> one of the bbbs we have here is using external 1A supply, and when it lost power one day the card that was in it working fine for a few days jus tsuddently went south
May 28 19:29:54 <mru> and then there are those times when you accidentally rm -r a bit too much
May 28 19:30:08 <m_billybob> naw rm 0rf / the way to go ;)
May 28 19:30:09 <mru> then you yank power quickly and hope it didn't sync
May 28 19:30:17 <m_billybob> rm -rf /*
May 28 19:31:09 <fiola> mru: Oh god, you just reminded me of the days before they explicitly stopped "rm -r .*" from going up the tree through ..
May 28 19:31:27 <mru> hehe
May 28 19:31:32 <mru> or you have a dodgy script that does rm -rf $FOO/* without making sure FOO is properly set
May 28 19:31:41 <m_billybob> fiola, still works on some distros it'll still hose a debian install or atleast the last time i tested
May 28 19:31:43 <mastiff> I haven't been able to get the BBB drivers working on XP 64bit on my desktop
May 28 19:31:49 <fiola> ROFL
May 28 19:31:52 <mru> for extra fun, have some network volumes mounted too
May 28 19:32:01 <mastiff> BBB is recognized by USB but can't connect to the IP
May 28 19:32:22 <m_billybob> mastiff so log in via USB and poke aroudn in interfaces file
May 28 19:32:36 <mastiff> that's actually why I was using my laptop with the BBB
May 28 19:32:43 <m_billybob> hard code a static IP if you have to
May 28 19:33:01 <mru> I always type .??* just to be sure
May 28 19:33:17 <mastiff> No I mean the XP64 drivers aren't installing properly.
May 28 19:33:25 <mru> and deal with any .? files separately
May 28 19:33:35 <fiola> mru: your "rm -rf $FOO/*" (an utterly disastrous one) is in the same category as the classic "rm -rf x *" (unintended space after x).  God we had fun, lol.
May 28 19:33:53 <m_billybob> mastiff -> http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration if you need guidance
May 28 19:34:52 <mastiff> Yeah soryy m_billybob I was confusing you, I haven't got the debian build flashed onto a BBB yet
May 28 19:35:28 <mru> I make it a habit to type out the patterns to delete in full first, _then_ add the -rf
May 28 19:35:30 <mastiff> I got my 2nd BBB to boot of the internal and it's still untouched, out of the box condition.
May 28 19:36:06 <mru> accidentally hitting enter halfway through typing is also a nice mistake to make
May 28 19:36:25 <mru> so you delete foo instead of foobar
May 28 19:36:54 <mru> or /usr instead of /usr/junk
May 28 19:37:16 <kfoltman> mru: or use find, then  find -delete?
May 28 19:37:49 <mru> extra fun on windows with \ for path separator conveniently located near the enter key
May 28 19:37:52 <mastiff> My 1st BBB is connected to the laptop for the debian build.  The 2nd BBB is attached to my XP64 desktop, and even though the BBB driver install program says it's they are installed, I can't connect to the BBB with the start.htm webserver or with putty, but the BBB does show up on USB
May 28 19:38:11 <mru> and then you're on one of those idiotic US keyboards where the usual location for \ *is* the enter key
May 28 19:38:59 <mru> usual if you use us layout on a european keyboard, that is
May 28 19:39:43 <m_billybob> $ ^[[A^[[B^[[C^[[D
May 28 19:40:13 <m_billybob> us keyboard are all diffferent now days
May 28 19:40:25 <m_billybob> one keyboard is not necessarily the same as the next
May 28 19:40:40 <m_billybob> which is fairly irritating
May 28 19:41:14 <tasslehoff> I'm leaving 2.6.39 behind and moving to The Future. Angstrom/Yocto 1.4 builds 3.2(.18 I think) on my system. Does newer kernels not work well on the beagleboard (C3), or is it just that my poor old hw is not hip anymore?
May 28 19:41:20 <m_billybob> but, when you pay $10 US or less . . . i uess you get what you pay for
May 28 19:42:38 <mru> I've mainly seen two variants in the us
May 28 19:42:54 <mru> long, horizontal enter key and L-shaped enter key
May 28 19:43:14 <mru> with the corresponding mutilation of the backspace key
May 28 19:43:17 <m_billybob> tasslehoff, im not sure, but you are aware of device tree ?
May 28 19:43:57 <mru> tasslehoff: if it ain't broke, why fix it?
May 28 19:44:07 <tasslehoff> m_billybob: there is some distant awareness. I know what it is, but haven't had to learn about it yet.
May 28 19:44:32 <georgem> I was under the assumption that the angstrom using 3.8.x would boot on beagleboard
May 28 19:44:35 <tasslehoff> mru: who says it isn't broken? :)
May 28 19:44:36 <mastiff> I'm not going to mess with XP64 bs, firing up my other old linux laptop
May 28 19:44:53 <mru> tasslehoff: my beagles running happily on 2.6.32 say so
May 28 19:46:12 <m_billybob> eeek xp x64. glutton for punishment much ?
May 28 19:46:40 <mastiff> for 3D animations a few years back
May 28 19:47:10 <tasslehoff> mru: we have a rev C3-inspired board (wonder how many times I've said this in #beagle). An SMSC LAN9500 is the only thing connected to musb, and we have some stability issues with it. thought I'd see if a newer kernel with newer musb could help.
May 28 19:48:02 <mastiff> also boot it into linux, but the wifi adapter is only working with windows at the moment
May 28 19:49:01 <tasslehoff> we get this crash on reboot now and then http://e2e.ti.com/support/dsp/omap_applications_processors/f/447/t/244999.aspx
May 28 20:14:53 <Sy_> Happy to say I now have two BBB connecting to each other using mySQL :)
May 28 20:16:59 <fiola> Sy_: Woot!!!!  What was the issue stopping connection?
May 28 20:17:31 <BeagleGithub> [kernel] eliasbakken opened pull request #41: Added a patch for getting the ADC to work properly and also using separa... (3.8...3.8)  http://git.io/ZU8hdw
May 28 20:18:33 <Sy_> In the end after examing the error log it turned out that the server wasn't running properly, the default install was trying to create the pid file in /var/run/mysqld/ but despite creating this folder, it was removed on restart and mysql couldn't create the pid file.
May 28 20:18:52 <mastiff_> "poweroff" seems to work well for gentle shutdown
May 28 20:18:55 <Sy_> So I move the location in my.cnf to some place where it could create and access it, and now it works.
May 28 20:19:08 <Sy_> still have a few permission problems, but its getting there.
May 28 20:19:20 <fiola> Aha.  So it never actually got to binding the TCP port, which is why your connections failed.  Nothing to do with firewall.
May 28 20:20:25 <fiola> At least you got a firewall-stop script out of it. :-))))))))))))))))))))
May 28 20:20:47 <fiola> We only learn througfh failures, never through successes :D
May 28 20:21:15 <cmicali> has anyone been successful using the built-in connman DHCP client instead of udhcpc
May 28 20:21:23 <Sy_> Very true
May 28 20:21:48 <Sy_> I often wonder if everything in the universe worked first time around, how ignorant would we be.....
May 28 20:22:33 <fiola> cmicali: connman never worked at all here in standalone mode, I had to remove it from starting and make a noddy startup script.
May 28 20:22:50 <fiola> Sy_: lol.  That's one to ponder.
May 28 20:23:27 <cmicali> fiola: interesting..  i've updated to latest connman, trying to get it to work.  wifi working + dhcp, but not automatically getting an IP on eth0, and if wlan0 goes down for any reson, it doesn't come back up
May 28 20:23:32 <cmicali> overall feels really unreliable
May 28 20:23:41 <cmicali> also, connman docs are nonexistant
May 28 20:23:46 <fiola> Aye
May 28 20:24:15 <fiola> It's misspelled, should be "conman".
May 28 20:25:03 <cmicali> is it just a cruel joke, should i give up on it
May 28 20:25:14 <mastiff_> How should I format an SD card for BBB if I just wanna use it for storage?
May 28 20:25:22 <cmicali> the idea of a dbus interface is so tempting
May 28 20:26:57 <fiola> Joking aside, it seems to have been poorly engineered, little defensive programming and no looking at corner cases.  IP isn't hard nor bleeding edge, so I don't know what its trouble is.  Anyway, doing it manually is easy for embedded.
May 28 20:28:12 <fiola> I remember that connman failed back when I got a BB white too.  I guess it's just unmaintained/improved.
May 28 20:28:17 <Sy_> I am the lead Senior Software Engineer for a company that produces water leak detection systems running on QNX...I am always preaching about defensive programming, so I know exactly what you mean
May 28 20:28:57 <fiola> Sy_: you mean you don't appreciate all valves left open when a program crashes? ^_^
May 28 20:29:08 <cmicali> it's just hard to tell if it's connman's fault, b/c no way to know how to configure it properly
May 28 20:29:27 <Sy_> :)
May 28 20:31:45 <Sy_> Now both masters are running and in sync.....not bad for a set-up that cost less than £100 GBP
May 28 20:33:20 <SpeedEvil> fiola: 'IP isn't hard nor bleeding edge'
May 28 20:33:50 <SpeedEvil> fiola: Go and glance at the wifi standard. You'll be astounded anyone ever managed to write any wifi stack.
May 28 20:34:05 <fiola> I'm a bit sensitive on this subject because I used to lecture 3rd year undergrads in Software Engineering, and reliability was an important topic, naturally.  So it pains me deeply when I see crap software, anywhere.  Sure, we all make mistakes, but we have to accept that we've made them when they're reported.  Got no time for people who refuse to accept their mistakes.  They're not professional engineers.
May 28 20:34:31 <mru> fiola: ever met lennart?
May 28 20:34:41 <dwery> mru: :D
May 28 20:34:45 <KotH> fiola: most oss programmers are not professional engineers...
May 28 20:34:54 <fiola> SpeedEvil: Ever get the feeling that some things are over-engineered? :P
May 28 20:34:55 <panto> KotH, err, no
May 28 20:35:03 <panto> lots of user-space crud yes
May 28 20:35:05 <mru> most of them are hyperactive kids with an overblown sense of entitlement
May 28 20:35:16 <panto> but the kernel is mostly done by professionals
May 28 20:35:18 <panto> mostly...
May 28 20:35:38 <KotH> panto: yes, but that's the exception
May 28 20:35:49 <KotH> panto: and that's only a small part of the oss scene
May 28 20:36:08 <SpeedEvil> fiola: I'm unsure how much of it is complexity - and how much of it that the standard is terribly written and is a collection of minutia that add up to a standard - without any overview sections that draw it together and allow you to form a coherent part of the whole.
May 28 20:36:10 <panto> there's an awful lot of oss s/w out there
May 28 20:36:26 <KotH> mru: lennart is a professional.. he is getting paid for what he is doing... the quality of his work is a totally different matter
May 28 20:36:30 <fiola> SpeedEvil: I echo that.
May 28 20:36:41 <panto> ok, lennart's code is not bad
May 28 20:36:48 <mru> sure is
May 28 20:36:48 <dwery> there's so much software that sometimes, someone, thinks that it should be rewritten from scratch...
May 28 20:36:52 <mru> it's lennartware
May 28 20:36:58 <SpeedEvil> Or should not be written at all.
May 28 20:37:03 <panto> what is bad is his ideas of configuration and user-friendlyness
May 28 20:37:26 <panto> the problem with lennart is that he's an idealist
May 28 20:37:33 <panto> good software is cynical
May 28 20:37:37 <KotH> eh
May 28 20:37:38 * SpeedEvil looks at his phone which gets 30% better battery life playing MP3 if you pull PA out of the chain.
May 28 20:37:48 <KotH> panto: interesting idea
May 28 20:38:06 <mru> panto: and his idea of maturity, and of robustness, and of necessity to replace perfectly working things in the first place
May 28 20:38:15 <panto> mru, see idealism
May 28 20:38:35 <mru> he's a giant, egocentric twat, that's what
May 28 20:38:46 <panto> lol, yeah, just like most idealists
May 28 20:39:29 <panto> stable s/w is evolved, not just sprung from scratch
May 28 20:40:10 <KotH> panto: what do you mean by "good software is cynical"?
May 28 20:40:29 <mru> KotH: you're not cynical enough to understand that
May 28 20:40:32 <fiola> panto:  Idealism is excellent.  You just have to accept that the idealist doesn't necessarily produce the best software, but that doesn't invalidate the ideals.  We all strive for the same thing (hopefully), and it may require the ideals to come from one source and the expert programming from another.  A lot of expert programmers are utterly dumb, because they product wonderful code that does the wrong thing.
May 28 20:40:51 <SpeedEvil> panto: Well, that's not always true. Dbus - or some similar mechanism - is needed in many cases, and it sprang from scratch.
May 28 20:40:54 <KotH> mru: yeah.. i'm still in the "optimist" phase... but i'm open to learn new things :)
May 28 20:41:04 <fiola> s/product/produce/
May 28 20:41:15 <mru> KotH: have you tried dating women?
May 28 20:41:22 <mru> that should teach you cynicism
May 28 20:41:35 <SpeedEvil> s/women/humans/
May 28 20:41:37 <panto> KotH, a cynical doesn't trust what other people tell him about the state of the world, he's cautious and doesn't believe in good intentions
May 28 20:41:41 <KotH> mru: i guess i had more luck with women than you ^^'
May 28 20:41:48 <mru> SpeedEvil: sure, any gender will do
May 28 20:41:50 <panto> good s/w is similar
May 28 20:41:53 <kfoltman> Pulseaudio is, unfortunately, pretty much a necessary thing on the desktop. It's still either buggy or dependent on other software that is buggy.
May 28 20:41:56 <KotH> mru: but then, i generally mistrust humans
May 28 20:41:57 * SpeedEvil should note that he has not tried dating men.
May 28 20:42:11 <SpeedEvil> But I know that men are pretty fucked up too.
May 28 20:42:20 <mru> KotH: I know nothing about your history with women
May 28 20:42:21 <SpeedEvil> kfoltman: I question PA is needed.
May 28 20:42:23 <SpeedEvil> Jack.
May 28 20:42:31 <SpeedEvil> Or alsa - properly setup
May 28 20:42:34 <panto> SpeedEvil, err, no
May 28 20:42:46 <panto> Jack is a completely alien model for most apps
May 28 20:42:50 <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: JACK is needed... in the studio. Not on the desktop. I use JACK, but wouldn't recommend it for the general user.
May 28 20:42:52 <panto> and alsa, well, that's a mistake
May 28 20:43:01 <KotH> mru: see what i wrote about mistrust and humans :)
May 28 20:43:06 <panto> oss was/is superior
May 28 20:43:58 <panto> the whole concept of relying on user-space mixing/sample rate conversion is just... bad
May 28 20:44:08 * KotH acks panto 
May 28 20:44:13 <fiola> pulseaudio is another of those "Audio problems?  Delete pulseaudio" packages.  Makes you wonder how many years they hacked on it before thinkign about what it should do.
May 28 20:44:16 <kfoltman> panto: that's one of the things that Windows got right, unfortunately
May 28 20:44:22 <KotH> though, i come to like the flexibility of properly working alsa app..
May 28 20:44:26 <mru> panto: having a dedicated userspace daemon do it wouldn't be terrible
May 28 20:44:35 <Sy_> I always tell my junior software guys always assume that if it can go wrong it will and code accordingly, if a function returns something, then always check that the return is valid before proceeding...
May 28 20:44:39 <mru> doing it in whatever random process happened to open the sound device first is insane
May 28 20:44:40 <KotH> fiola: gues who came up with the idea of pulseaudio
May 28 20:44:57 <kfoltman> mru: "dedicated userspace daemon" like pulseaudio?
May 28 20:44:59 <KotH> fiola: and its author still thinks it is a good ida
May 28 20:44:59 <fiola> KotH: Uh oh ... who?
May 28 20:45:02 <panto> mru, latency will kill you with that model
May 28 20:45:03 <KotH> fiola: lennart
May 28 20:45:07 <fiola> LOL
May 28 20:45:08 <mru> kfoltman: no, one that does _only_ that
May 28 20:45:12 <fiola> You'rfe kidding
May 28 20:45:19 <mru> fiola: it's true
May 28 20:45:20 <panto> that's why they did the library thing
May 28 20:45:27 <SpeedEvil> Oh - I thought that was why lennart was raised.
May 28 20:45:35 <panto> but the OSS method is superior
May 28 20:45:45 <kfoltman> fiola: you didn't know that systemd and pulseaudio have the same author? :O
May 28 20:45:57 <panto> open a device, get a filehandle, mmap/write, kernel does the mixing and sample rate conversion
May 28 20:45:58 <panto> done
May 28 20:46:01 <KotH> fiola: no i'm not
May 28 20:46:12 <KotH> fiola: same goes for this abomination called avahi
May 28 20:46:21 <KotH> fiola: do you see a pattern?
May 28 20:46:24 <Sy_> Seriously loving this BBB, for the price it has to be the no.1 board out there, I can't think of any other micro that offers so much for so little.
May 28 20:46:37 <kfoltman> mru: but then there's a question of device discovery, and routing and ... and... and pulseaudio
May 28 20:46:56 <mru> and I've never had it on my system
May 28 20:47:07 <mru> and everything works just fine
May 28 20:47:16 <KotH> fiola: there is a reason why a lot of people say that lennart is cancer
May 28 20:47:42 <kfoltman> Sy_: I think it's a great middle ground between Shenzhen stuff (fast, cheap, unreliable) and pro dev boards
May 28 20:47:44 <fiola> OSS was always superior.  It took ALSA people TEN FUCKING YEARS (pardon my French) to accept that drivers should allow multi-open.  FFS, I was writing multi-open drivers in Unix in 1979.  The cluelessness of ALSA devs is beyond belief.  Fortunately someone hit them, with a cluestick in the last 3 years.
May 28 20:47:48 <Sy_> Have a long list of software I plan to write for it, next on the list is a modbus ethernet driver to allow PLC's to access the database.
May 28 20:48:29 <KotH> fiola: iirc the kernel<->userspace api of alsa is still not documented in the same way as other kernel api
May 28 20:48:30 <Sy_> Are any of you on LinkedIn?
May 28 20:48:47 * KotH is not old-school professional enough to be on linkedin
May 28 20:48:50 <SpeedEvil> Not here.
May 28 20:48:52 <kfoltman> fiola: those clueless people still wrote a boatload of working (or semi-working at least) drivers
May 28 20:49:05 <KotH> or maybe not manager-type-professional enough
May 28 20:49:16 <KotH> kfoltman: yeah
May 28 20:49:28 <Sy_> This is my linkedin group where I plan to serve up these pages from BBB.... http://www.linkedin.com/groups/SVG-GUI-MIMICS-4967514?trk=myg_ugrp_ovr
May 28 20:49:39 <Sy_> Turning the BBB into a SCADA system.
May 28 20:49:41 <tasslehoff> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcfXij6t4LA
May 28 20:49:48 <KotH> kfoltman: it was fun to see that the oss alsa emulation worked better than direct alsa access for a damn lot of drivers... sometimes to the extend that alsa interface didnt work at all while the emulation worked
May 28 20:49:48 <tasslehoff> oldie but goodie
May 28 20:49:54 <mdp> fiola, still not quite right. OSS was *never* superior on the Gravis Ultrasound. I had to run ALSA before it was ALSA because of that.
May 28 20:49:59 * SpeedEvil imagines Sy is taking time off from k-pop.
May 28 20:50:13 <Sy_> k-pop ?
May 28 20:50:14 <mru> KotH: those drivers were probably lifted straight from oss
May 28 20:50:22 <SpeedEvil> Korean popular music.
May 28 20:50:32 <Sy_> lol....I'm from UK
May 28 20:50:46 <mdp> and the commercial version of OSS full model and relationship with those closed soundcard vendors doomed it on non-technical reasons
May 28 20:50:47 <mru> Sy_: gangnam style was pretty popular here too
May 28 20:50:51 <kfoltman> KotH: I don't like ALSA architecture (maybe I'm too dumb to understand it, but I understood JACK and OSS and even wrote a working USB audio class driver in userspace using libusb alone - so perhaps the architecture is more complicated than it should be)
May 28 20:50:52 <KotH> mru: nope.. at least one of them never existed as oss driver.. that was the first time i even considered using alsa, because there was no oss driver
May 28 20:51:02 <fiola> kfoltman: sure, but it was inferior to OSS drivers (using simple engineering evaluation, feature by feature), and they refused to accept it not for engineering merit but because they were a little clique, content with their internal peergroup reinforcement in total disregard of engineering merit.
May 28 20:51:24 <KotH> kfoltman: ugh.. you are saying that alsa has a more complex architecture than an usb device?
May 28 20:51:26 * jrawson wonders why flamewars on freenode always seem to trigger his highlights so much.
May 28 20:51:33 <KotH> how fucking complicated did they do it?
May 28 20:51:45 <mru> very
May 28 20:51:46 <panto> more complicated than usb
May 28 20:51:49 <mdp> KotH, almost ;)
May 28 20:52:09 <panto> a wild mdp appears!
May 28 20:52:17 * KotH still has nightmares from the complexity of the CDC device... 
May 28 20:52:24 <kfoltman> KotH: no, I'm not saying that - obviously writing a whole stack is more rewarding so I tried harder, with ALSA it was just "oh, really? well, fook that noise."
May 28 20:52:28 <mdp> panto, still need that ISA cape to run my GUS ;)
May 28 20:53:01 <KotH> apropos nightmares... i should be in bed and having them
May 28 20:53:12 <mru> KotH: maybe you are
May 28 20:53:13 <KotH> good night boys, girls, trolls and trollettes
May 28 20:53:20 <dwery> Sy_: interesting stuff. I've got a friend whos working for a gui for a NC machine and he might be interested
May 28 20:53:36 <kfoltman> fiola: "a little clique", sounds way too familiar... :S (not just ALSA context)
May 28 20:53:41 <Sy_> Cool, please send him the link.
May 28 20:53:48 <mru> kfoltman: that's any open source project
May 28 20:54:08 <fiola> Haha, that's getting cruel, comparing ALSA with USB.  But until a few years ago, USB was as screwball as ALSA pre-multi-open-drivers.  USB3.0 is better (no polling!!!), and ALSA has multi-open drivers, so we no longer have to dive off that bridge.
May 28 20:54:09 <kfoltman> mru: well, not freemind - that one was a civil war ;)
May 28 20:54:10 <mru> some of them have multiple which fight
May 28 20:54:15 <panto> mdp, PRUs to the rescue
May 28 20:54:48 <ka6sox> great...a GIANT step backwards to do PC-104
May 28 20:54:54 <fiola> kfoltman: No comment :P.  I think it'll work out here.  BBB is just awesome :P
May 28 20:55:24 <Sy_> I worked for years in the Offshore Oil and Gas Industry where we designed and built MCS (Master Control Stations) that controlled sub-sea valves...these were basically two PLC's talking to each other, total cost of an MCS was around 250K GBP, now today I think I could do the same with a couple of BBB's.
May 28 20:55:26 <KotH> ka6sox: i guess half of the people here have never heard of pc-104 :)
May 28 20:56:03 * SpeedEvil had designs for a 386/80 handheld computer back in the day.
May 28 20:56:10 <fiola> Only the longest ever living standard form factor in embedded :P
May 28 20:56:13 <kfoltman> fiola: I meant that as in "been there, got burned", from various projects I worked on before, not as in criticism to this channel or anything like that
May 28 20:56:34 * ka6sox checks to see if this is #ISA or something embedded.
May 28 20:56:38 <Sy_> PC-104 still used at the heart of our systems today....TomCat from VersaLogic
May 28 20:56:44 <fiola> Yup
May 28 20:56:48 <fiola> Zillions
May 28 20:56:51 <ka6sox> still alive and kicking!
May 28 20:56:53 <mdp> ka6sox, build it and 15 minutes of fame will come
May 28 20:57:06 <ka6sox> mdp, only if I sell Zillions
May 28 20:57:12 <mru> fame is overrated
May 28 20:57:29 <Sy_> Must sign off and go to bed now, ty for all the help and advice.
May 28 20:57:34 <mdp> ka6sox, I will promise you 15 minutes (adjusted for internet time to 15 seconds) of fame on hackaday
May 28 20:57:36 <ka6sox> nite Sy_
May 28 20:57:42 <Sy_> Nite
May 28 20:57:46 <panto> g'night
May 28 20:57:49 <fiola> NN Sy_
May 28 20:58:20 <emeb> mrpackethead: BCC boards arrived safely.
May 28 20:58:20 <ka6sox> mdp, if I have to do ISA/PC-104 I want $$$....fame is fleeting
May 28 20:58:35 <ka6sox> emeb,  you are before me :)
May 28 20:59:00 <emeb> ka6sox: haven't gotten yours yet?
May 28 20:59:13 <ka6sox> I went post...which is fine :)
May 28 21:00:48 <emeb> aha. Nice looking boards - green mask, ENIG, silk looks a little bit blurrier than the OSHpark boards, but overall very good.
May 28 21:01:43 <emeb> funny thing - I got two other shipments of boards from OSHpark today too - three sets in all. It's a board-tastic day!
May 28 21:02:49 <ka6sox> woo woo
May 28 21:02:56 <dwery> so what's the plan to earn zillions of $$$?
May 28 21:03:15 <ka6sox> dwery, that woke you up eh?
May 28 21:03:30 <mru> dwery: make cheap crap and market the hell out of it
May 28 21:03:30 <dwery> that and "sub-sea valves"
May 28 21:03:32 <mru> aka apple
May 28 21:04:28 <dwery> I feel I'm bad at amrketing things
May 28 21:04:41 <mru> that's why you're not filthy rich
May 28 21:05:25 <dwery> I'll have to find alternatives
May 28 21:08:50 <panto> guten nacht
May 28 21:12:17 <mranostay> ds2: yo
May 28 21:17:47 <ka6sox> nite panto
May 28 21:17:49 <fiola> KotH / kfoltman: I haven't replied immediately because it's really not a joking thing.  But if lennart is the mastermind behind systemd, pulseaudio and avahi, then I think FOSS may have a real problem.  It would appear that he/she doesn't have an engineer's mind for simple interfaces and interoperating reliably with other systems.
May 28 21:18:24 <mru> not he/she, it
May 28 21:18:36 <fiola> Sorry, or it.
May 28 21:18:48 <fiola> No, cancel that, a bot would do better.
May 28 21:20:04 <fiola> Heck, we can make even the crappiest software work, given time.  But I'd prefer not to have more of it along the same lines.
May 28 21:20:16 <kfoltman> fiola: I'd be inclined to not think about this area in categorical terms - the direction he's pointing at is definitely a good direction for some scenarios, in my opinion. However, it is a radical departure, and the execution isn't great - his fault or other peoples' - or just because it's a radical departure. It also sucks for some use cases. I think this is one of the things where people will have polarized opinions, and nothing can be done about tha
May 28 21:20:16 <kfoltman> t.
May 28 21:21:17 <SpeedEvil> Kill the infidel!
May 28 21:21:17 <mru> the worst part is the complete and utter _denial_ from their side that other cases even exist
May 28 21:22:16 <kfoltman> fiola: Basically, I think of the pre-pulseaudio situation as a sort of "local maximum", there's no way to improve things without radical changes that break habits and often break software.
May 28 21:23:35 <kfoltman> Same with systemd - even though breaking syslog is unforgivable ;)
May 28 21:23:49 <fiola> kfoltman: I'm not a traditionalist.  Despite starting with Bell Lab's Unix tapes in 1978-9, nothing is sacrosanct, and Unix has to evolve.  So yes, bring on the changes!  But engineering commonsense is required.  It's a pro/cons matter, like everything else in engineering, and awesomeideas are bad engineering if they don't meet the engineering requirement, ie. they have more cons than pros.
May 28 21:24:33 <fiola> I'm wondering if he's analysing his pros/cons sensibly.
May 28 21:24:59 <kfoltman> fiola: Probably not, but you need some level of insanity in order to overcome the widespread consensus.
May 28 21:25:22 <fiola> Insanity FTW.  Just not breakage nor regression.
May 28 21:25:43 <mru> and a little less arrogance would be nice
May 28 21:25:52 <kfoltman> Well, you need to regress in order to get out of a local maximum.
May 28 21:26:08 * kfoltman can't believe he defends Lennart
May 28 21:26:54 <dwery> avoiding to capitalize each word of log messages would be a plus
May 28 21:27:16 <fiola> kfoltman: That regression between local maxima is not visible between changes though.  Only the little maxima appear to the public eye, not the valleys.  Otherwise we'll all bve diving off bridges.
May 28 21:28:29 <fiola> kfoltman: I don't read it as you defending him. :P  I read it as you defending useful progress.  (But only when it's useful)
May 28 21:29:47 <kfoltman> fiola: Well, Linux audio scene is kind of an exaggerated example of the same phenomenon: just when we got ALSA MIDI mostly working, everyone started trying this new thing called JACK MIDI; when DSSI started to stabilize, LV2 was created etc.
May 28 21:30:06 <kfoltman> AND they weren't interoperable
May 28 21:30:32 <kfoltman> (well, there's JACK-ALSA MIDI bridge, but it's mostly a hassle)
May 28 21:30:56 <fiola> kfoltman:  I know, I'm a Linux MIDI wannabe, tons of musical equipment here :P
May 28 21:31:00 <kfoltman> And LV2 is somewhat fragmented and incompatible with itself at times (for which I share part of the blame)
May 28 21:31:23 <fiola> lol
May 28 21:32:44 <m_billybob> dahm experiment of the day foiled due to missing kernel module
May 28 21:33:13 <m_billybob> not even sure if one exists
May 28 21:33:19 * fiola gives m_billybob a pine kernel
May 28 21:33:47 <m_billybob> lol thanks but what i really need is an iSCSI kernel driver module
May 28 21:34:02 <mastiff_> Both of my BBBs are restorred to operational
May 28 21:34:11 <fiola> (Sorry, concurrent cooking, no iSCSI in this casserole :P)
May 28 21:34:21 <m_billybob> mastiff_ so what did you do then ?
May 28 21:34:47 <kfoltman> fiola: speaking of which, I did some NEON work over the weekend, and the sampler is almost usable on BBB now :) but I didn't do anything to make the installation process any easier, no interest
May 28 21:35:06 <m_billybob> fiola, all good, i wouldnt be lamenting so much but my buddy left town to do some radio station work and took the uSD<->SD card adapter with him :/
May 28 21:35:12 <mastiff_> turns out the reflash on the SD card does work an if you put the SD card in a BBB and boot with it, it flashes the internal memory with the contents of the SD
May 28 21:35:37 <mastiff_> I thought it was supposed to boot off the SD, possibly just my confusion.
May 28 21:35:40 <m_billybob> mastiff_ yes . . . thats the whole idea . . .
May 28 21:35:55 <m_billybob> lol well that why i suggested you go to bed last night
May 28 21:36:00 <dwery> mastiff_: you can disable the reflashing
May 28 21:36:05 <m_billybob> you were startign to soudn loopy ;)
May 28 21:36:34 <mastiff_> Haha, yeah memorial day wine drinking while waiting for compiling eventually wore me down
May 28 21:37:03 <ka6sox> mastiff_, no compiling and drinking...leave that to mranostay
May 28 21:37:45 <mastiff_> So what I'd like to use the SD for is extra storage, or to boot another OS off the SD.  Where should I look for docs on that use case?
May 28 21:38:14 <ka6sox> mastiff_, currently (as far as I know...) that is not supported.
May 28 21:38:24 <ka6sox> but it needs to be (in the FUTURE!)
May 28 21:38:24 <m_billybob> you need Spirilis' uenv.txt file
May 28 21:38:29 <fiola> kfoltman: link us to any nice noises you make.  I will never complain because mine are a lot worse.  Others might though :P
May 28 21:38:32 <mastiff_> which storage, or booting?
May 28 21:38:48 <m_billybob> mastiff_ -> you need Spirilis' uenv.txt file
May 28 21:39:12 <mastiff_> yes I put that on my SD and could see it on my laptop but not the BBB
May 28 21:39:12 <m_billybob> it'll let you boot with sd card inserted then you can have your way wit hthe sd how you see fit
May 28 21:39:39 <kfoltman> fiola: https://soundcloud.com/nadaistas  that's my band (i.e. me and Damian, the guitarist/bass player) - and that's the rest of the stuff https://soundcloud.com/krzysztof-foltman (one song with Damian, another where my wife sings)
May 28 21:39:45 <mastiff_> so maybe the laptop is automounting the SD but BBB needs to be told to mount the SD?
May 28 21:39:53 <kfoltman> (that song with my wife is a cover obviously)
May 28 21:40:10 <m_billybob> then either a) angstrom automounted at boot, or b) you'll need to manually mount it yourself
May 28 21:40:33 <m_billybob> but you'll have to have the sd card in before you boot it up
May 28 21:41:01 <mastiff_> right, and I'll need to reformat the card and add the text file
May 28 21:41:09 <m_billybob> maybe not
May 28 21:41:23 <m_billybob> all distros should see fat partitions fine
May 28 21:41:47 <mastiff_> so just having the txt file will keep it from reflashing?
May 28 21:42:08 <m_billybob> root@arm:~# blkid
May 28 21:42:11 <kfoltman> fiola: ohhhh you meant NICE noises... ok, nevermind
May 28 21:42:21 <m_billybob> - /dev/mmcblk0p1: SEC_TYPE="msdos" LABEL="boot" UUID="370E-2D02" TYPE="vfat"
May 28 21:42:33 <m_billybob> notice the type
May 28 21:43:52 <m_billybob> mastiff_, technically yes, but you could delete that stuff without reformating the drive
May 28 21:44:18 <m_billybob> personally id probably remove the automated flashing stuff at least
May 28 21:45:23 <m_billybob> mastiff_, *or* you could reformat it as ext3/4 is you wanted too
May 28 21:45:31 <m_billybob> if you wanted*
May 28 21:46:16 <fiola> kfoltman: no, no, when it comes to making music, I encourage even non-nice. :P  However, soundcloud is giving me trouble.  It seems they're trying to subvert FlashBlock, and in so doing they're preventing me from whitelisting you.
May 28 21:47:19 <kfoltman> fiola: we have some old stuff on that rusty Rupert Murdoch site, but you probably need something more like straight HTTP right? ;)
May 28 21:48:15 <fiola> kfoltman: I usually find a way around webbie silliness, just takes a while.
May 28 21:48:57 <m_billybob> think im goign ot duplicate my build envoirnment and see if there is an iSCSI kernel module in menuconfig
May 28 21:50:40 <fiola> m_billybob: what're you actually doing with iSCSI?  I was going to set up iSCSI fabric here at one point.
May 28 21:51:06 <m_billybob> fiola, nothing that couldnt be done with nfs, except this is geekeier ;)
May 28 21:51:35 <m_billybob> fiola, creating some space for to copy stuff over *a lot * to keep from hosing my sd card
May 28 21:52:23 <m_billybob> figured once i got it working id just mount it as /home/user
May 28 21:53:30 <fiola> Haha, sounds cool.  Some of my stuff is overengineered just for geekiness too.  And my iSCSI plans got derailed when I nabbed two boxes intended as targets for NFS duty.
May 28 21:54:06 <m_billybob> fiola. i literally tested nfs, iscsi AoE for a whole year a few years back
May 28 21:54:15 <fiola> Could revisit that using some ARM board with SATA, like Sabre-Lite.
May 28 21:54:16 <m_billybob> different combinations of various aspects
May 28 21:54:38 <fiola> Interesting,
May 28 21:54:49 <m_billybob> tried gettign it workign with Xen etc etc, which is why i have a serious dislike for ubuntu
May 28 21:55:04 <m_billybob> for that purpose ubuntu was grbage
May 28 21:55:20 <m_billybob> at that point in time anyhow
May 28 21:55:43 <m_billybob> secondly, who needs a friggen desktop  ;)
May 28 21:55:55 * m_billybob hids his wondows boxen
May 28 21:55:59 <fiola> Ditto
May 28 21:57:02 <fiola> Don't have any Windows machines, games I run under Wine.  Life's too short for more than one O/S.
May 28 21:57:33 <mru> games run fine on ps3...
May 28 21:57:43 <m_billybob> im an equal opertunity OS person
May 28 21:58:03 <m_billybob> Ive had very little problems with widnows in the last idk 8 or so years
May 28 21:58:21 <mru> m_billybob: me too, probably because I've largely avoided using it
May 28 21:58:39 <m_billybob> mru me because i dont mind learning how to use it :P
May 28 21:58:54 <mru> I know how to use windows
May 28 21:59:01 <mru> to what little extent doing so is possible
May 28 21:59:58 <m_billybob> can hack the source, dont have initrd to toy aroudn with boot options, but its solid once you figure out what *not* to do with it
May 28 22:00:04 <m_billybob> cant hack it*
May 28 22:00:26 <m_billybob> cant hack the source*
May 28 22:00:35 <fiola> I don't have any problems with other people running different O/S's than me, they have one requirement, I have another.  That's why I don't blow off WinCE questions from newbies here, even though I have no interest in MS*.   Engineers just satisfy requirements, and mine are one set.  Others differ, but I'll still try to help.
May 28 22:00:45 <kfoltman> fiola: http://foltman.com/emma%20orch%205.mp3 (done in Windows using closed source software only, alas)
May 28 22:01:01 <m_billybob> i know nothing of WinCE except what it *is*
May 28 22:01:12 <m_billybob> i have seen some cool thigns done with it
May 28 22:03:16 <m_billybob> fiola, anyhow sure. use what makes you happy.
May 28 22:03:50 <m_billybob> I did think all that OSX CC # stealing that happened a few years back was rather um . . . entertaining lol
May 28 22:03:54 <fiola> kfoltman: You're a star! (Now playing).  I didn't use the player that popped up, but a simple wget.  Roy Fielding would be happy :P
May 28 22:06:06 <m_billybob> I think the original concept of Windows embedded was rather a cool idea. somethign along the lines of linux as far of flexibility went, but of course still closed source
May 28 22:12:40 <kfoltman> fiola: http://foltman.com/trouble.mp3 and that's my and my wife's cover of Leona Lewis' "Trouble" (using even more closed-source hardware, i.e. korg sp250 and kurzweil pc3)
May 28 22:17:34 <fiola> kfoltman: got it, playing
May 28 22:19:41 <fiola> kfoltman: Don't know the original, enyoying this
May 28 22:24:45 <fiola> kfoltman: bass!  I'm not an arranger, but a bass counterpoint could fit in great somewhere there.  (Fan of CCmixter :P)
May 28 22:27:02 <m_billybob> dont know if id want bass stepping all over that voice
May 28 22:27:10 <m_billybob> pretty voice.
May 28 22:27:48 <fiola> Bass can greatly reinforce a voice.  It's on 4th repeat, enjoying it.
May 28 22:27:57 * beng-nl too
May 28 22:28:27 <kfoltman> fiola: well, it's just a rehearsal recording with string track hastily played over it as an afterthought :) But, yes, perhaps I should try doing something thought-out instead. Only, I hate the process of composing :)
May 28 22:30:47 <fiola> Heh, never expected this coming here :P
May 28 22:31:17 <kfoltman> fiola: My bands' proper tracks are pretty much all based on the same idea - poorly prepared improvisation over reasonably fucked up chord progression. These two tracks are the exceptions to the rule.
May 28 22:31:28 <fiola> ROFL
May 28 22:32:23 <fiola> Music may benefit coming from the gut, instead of from engineering.  Maybe why I'm so bad at it :P
May 28 22:32:43 <kfoltman> fiola: proof? (as in, pudding-type proof)
May 28 22:33:01 <kfoltman> fiola: ("who said Bmaj/C# can't come after Cm-maj7? that's right. nobody" - that's our "proper" stuff)
May 28 22:33:26 <kfoltman> (no wonder my wife hates all of it)
May 28 22:33:38 <m_billybob> kfoltman, same genre as that mp3 or ... ?
May 28 22:33:49 <fiola> Not a chance, haha.  I don't have a high bar, but I recognize when it's well below it.
May 28 22:34:03 <kfoltman> m_billybob: no, more like jazz-influenced prog rock
May 28 22:34:06 <fiola> kfoltman: Tell her she does great!"
May 28 22:34:38 <fiola> Track wouldn't be on 6th cycle if it weren't good.
May 28 22:35:07 <kfoltman> fiola: I mean, she doesn't hate *her* stuff, she hates ours :D and worst of all, there's no market/audience for her style of singing in Dublin :(
May 28 22:35:27 <fiola> LOL @ hating yours :P
May 28 22:35:31 <m_billybob> kfoltman hmmm sounds like something id be interrested in then probably lol
May 28 22:36:15 <m_billybob> depends id have to hear it, but normally i like any rock
May 28 22:36:24 <m_billybob> heavy light jazzy whatever
May 28 22:36:48 * m_billybob mostly likes very technical guitar in music
May 28 22:37:13 <fiola> From browing CCmixter, I've comed to recognize stems vs compositions, and realizing when an addition can reinforce something (occasionally also a removal).  That's why I mentioned bass.
May 28 22:38:47 <kfoltman> m_billybob: https://soundcloud.com/nadaistas  try "Too late", it's not technical (none of our stuff is, we're engineers, not musicians :P), but it's probably insane enough to be interesting
May 28 22:39:09 <kfoltman> fiola: stems vs compositions?
May 28 22:40:01 <fiola> kfoltman: there's a lot of vocal-only stems on CCmixter.  People come along and add instrumental tracks.
May 28 22:40:03 <kfoltman> m_billybob: part of being an engineer = outsourcing hard work to machines, you can't do it with technical skills on an instrument
May 28 22:40:16 * m_billybob understands
May 28 22:40:30 * m_billybob used to tpy aroudn with FLSTudio
May 28 22:40:41 <m_billybob> err yeah toy aroudn wit hFL Studio
May 28 22:41:03 <kfoltman> "Even thinking of FL Studio causes a temporary brain paralysis"
May 28 22:41:14 <m_billybob> and by toy with i really mean it lol
May 28 22:41:22 <fiola> kfoltman: some are beyond awesome. the best commercial music has nothing on them.
May 28 22:41:25 * SpeedEvil imagines 'technical guitar' to be a guitar with a large machine gun welded to it.
May 28 22:41:33 <fiola> lol
May 28 22:41:43 <m_billybob> trying to recreate a guitar slide that sounds realistic . . .
May 28 22:41:46 <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: no, that's 'tactical guitar'
May 28 22:42:15 <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=xboc18NW3G_HVM&tbnid=t4asr0wee6UtkM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.warisboring.com%2F2008%2F07%2F01%2Fthe-washington-times-gunbattle-erupts-in-chad%2F&ei=uTKlUc6wHo2b0AWppoCgAw&bvm=bv.47008514,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNHvbvqF0oq08DaUPR2u2nIGAhzE2w&ust=1369867263479369
May 28 22:42:20 <SpeedEvil> - a 'technical'
May 28 22:42:30 <m_billybob> what i consider technical guitar -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEKTNtmKZEw
May 28 22:42:31 <mru> link fail
May 28 22:42:55 <mru> SpeedEvil: you can't right-click and copy link in google search results
May 28 22:43:02 <SpeedEvil> Sigh
May 28 22:43:22 <mru> you get their click-tracking url
May 28 22:43:29 <mru> which of course redirects to the real thing eventually
May 28 22:43:33 <SpeedEvil> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=xboc18NW3G_HVM&tbnid=t4asr0wee6UtkM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.warisboring.com%2F2008%2F07%2F01%2Fthe-washington-times-gunbattle-erupts-in-chad%2F&ei=uTKlUc6wHo2b0AWppoCgAw&bvm=bv.47008514,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNHvbvqF0oq08DaUPR2u2nIGAhzE2w&ust=1369867263479369
May 28 22:43:37 <SpeedEvil> doh
May 28 22:43:50 <SpeedEvil> http://warisboring.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/technical.JPG
May 28 22:44:33 <SpeedEvil> Basically, a machine gun on a vehicle of some sort.
May 28 22:46:21 <fiola> kfoltman: You've just been displaced by Dream Theater, blame m_billybob :P   But Trouble got to 8-9th loop :P
May 28 22:46:37 <fiola> Oh no, not my thing.
May 28 22:46:39 <kfoltman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_%28vehicle%29 didn't know that term; oh well, looks like I'll learn a lot in this channel.
May 28 22:53:01 <fiola> Apart from my wall of CDs, I now mostly listen to CC music, which is absolutely enormous and virtually unknown.  40k+ artists and 50k+ albums on jamendo.com , it's an undiscovered treasure mountain.
May 28 22:53:28 <m_billybob> satriani probably isnt your thing then either eh ?
May 28 22:53:48 <fiola> I love guitar, so sure, I'll listen to some.  Just not thrash
May 28 22:54:07 <fiola> Got more guitars here than arms
May 28 22:54:13 <m_billybob> that band actuall plays a lot of mellower stuff its not trash though
May 28 22:54:35 <m_billybob> err thrash
May 28 22:54:56 <m_billybob> that whole album i think the ywent with a metallica like soudn though
May 28 22:55:07 <m_billybob> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kry6MlguvDI
May 28 22:55:14 <m_billybob> my feelingis that no one can beat that guy
May 28 22:55:19 <mastiff> Collected errors:  * satisfy_dependencies_for: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for python-pygtk-dev:  * 	udev (= 182-r1.1) *
May 28 22:55:40 <mastiff> root@beaglebone:~/rtl-sdr/build# opkg list_installed udev* udev - v196-105-gdecd634-r12.3 udev-systemd - v196-105-gdecd634-r12.3 udev-utils - v196-105-gdecd634-r12.3
May 28 22:55:57 * fiola sings "I ain't got no, satisfaction!" on behalf of mastiif
May 28 22:55:59 <m_billybob> what are you doing now mastiff ?
May 28 22:56:18 <mastiff> installing dependencies for gnu radio
May 28 22:56:22 <fiola> s/mastiif/mastiff/
May 28 22:56:28 * kfoltman -> bed
May 28 22:56:36 <m_billybob> night kfoltman
May 28 22:56:37 <fiola> NN kf :-)
May 28 22:56:44 <kfoltman> night all!
May 28 22:58:23 <fiola> m_billybob: that's a very competent album, just not my thing, too headbanging.  The quieter bits I like a lot, it's still on.
May 28 22:58:39 <m_billybob> ;)
May 28 23:03:47 <fiola> See if you can play this.  Jamendo webbies are beyond clueless so it may fail, site breaks every other month.  http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a2225/increase-the-dosage
May 28 23:04:27 <m_billybob> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95kCv10duFw
May 28 23:04:37 <mastiff> Is hdmi the only way to get audio out of a BBB?
May 28 23:05:10 <m_billybob> you'd probably like and know that last link there fiola lol
May 28 23:05:15 <m_billybob> well maybe idk
May 28 23:05:39 <fiola> m_billybob: I have the majority of Santana albums.  As I said, I like guitar :-)
May 28 23:06:02 <kaektech> mastiff: I ran into that and other gtk gl dependencies issues also.
May 28 23:06:13 <ka6sox> welcome to #beagle...where we are *rarely* On Topic
May 28 23:06:14 <m_billybob> ah i know this type of music this stuff is good for listening to while coding sometimes
May 28 23:06:38 <mru> ka6sox: http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/146
May 28 23:06:39 <kaektech> Still haven't got gnuradio working under any beagle distro.
May 28 23:06:40 <ketas> mastiff: no, add usb sound card
May 28 23:06:51 <m_billybob> ka6sox, you missed the other early mourning when the talk was world wide politics it seemed
May 28 23:06:57 <ketas> mastiff: in theory it works
May 28 23:07:04 <ka6sox> mru, soooo true
May 28 23:07:06 <mru> m_billybob: JIHAD!
May 28 23:07:35 <m_billybob> ;)
May 28 23:07:37 <ka6sox> mru is a KotH wannabee
May 28 23:07:58 <kaektech> no chocolate?
May 28 23:08:13 <ka6sox> kaektech, I wish! WANT
May 28 23:08:14 <mastiff> i have rtl-sdr working, but can't output any sound until my hdmi cable arrives in the mail
May 28 23:08:17 <mru> ka6sox: no, I don't think I'd want to be KotH
May 28 23:08:35 <mastiff> haven't tried to compile gnu radio yet
May 28 23:08:55 <mru> because if I were KotH, then who would be me?
May 28 23:08:59 <m_billybob> mastiff, why are you compiling on the bbb though ?
May 28 23:09:16 <m_billybob> dont want to setup a cross dev envroinment ?
May 28 23:09:25 <m_billybob> envoirnment*
May 28 23:09:31 <ka6sox> mastiff = masochist?
May 28 23:09:32 <m_billybob> still doesnt look right
May 28 23:09:33 <mastiff> pygtk is for the gnuradio companion, so gnuradio might compile without that but the companion is an important module
May 28 23:09:52 <mastiff> haha, no I didn't know there's an easier way
May 28 23:09:59 <ka6sox> hurt me baby, make me compile on a beaglebone?
May 28 23:10:13 <m_billybob> seem tpo me goign purely from name that pygtk would be platform independant
May 28 23:10:32 <mru> ka6sox: could be worse, could be rpi
May 28 23:10:44 <mastiff> here's what I'm working off of for gnu radio install
May 28 23:10:44 <mastiff> http://gnuradio.org/doc/doxygen/build_guide.html
May 28 23:10:45 <kaektech> Aaannnnddd ka6sox wins the creeper card
May 28 23:10:49 <mru> m_billybob: *nothing* is platform-independent
May 28 23:11:11 <m_billybob> not even a cros platform script lnaguage library these days eh ?
May 28 23:11:46 <mru> _especially_ not
May 28 23:11:56 <m_billybob> i dont use python though and barely touched gtk so i really dont know
May 28 23:12:11 <m_billybob> or i could be thinking of Qt . . .
May 28 23:12:17 <mru> oh, I don't use python either
May 28 23:12:20 * m_billybob doesnt know
May 28 23:12:28 <mastiff> qt is also need for some gnu radio modules
May 28 23:12:37 <mru> I know trouble when I see it
May 28 23:12:54 <mru> and I see lots of it in the python direction
May 28 23:13:20 <mastiff> installing pip might help with some of the python dependencies
May 28 23:13:23 <m_billybob> mastiff, anyhow i think again you may run out of room, well unles you're mounting SD in home
May 28 23:13:49 <m_billybob> or something like that
May 28 23:13:55 <mastiff> that's what I was planning to do, put everything I can on the SD
May 28 23:14:03 <mastiff> just not sure how best to accomplish that yet
May 28 23:15:01 <m_billybob> yeah and i dont know the tools you're using well enough to offer sane advice either
May 28 23:15:43 <mastiff> no prob, different people with different backgrounds will be around later probably
May 28 23:15:51 <mastiff> eventually someone will know or I'll figure it out
May 28 23:17:53 <mastiff> two partitions are visible on my SD from the laptop, but out of 16GB, only less than 4GB are in those partitions, do I need to reformat or repartition?
May 28 23:17:57 <ka6sox> kaektech, since when does it follow when you are hurting yourself by trying to compile thigns on a target device (which has long been acknowledged as an exercise in futility" does that earn a creeper card?
May 28 23:18:48 <mastiff> haha, I think that was aimed at the "hurt me baby" comment
May 28 23:19:01 <ka6sox> oh
May 28 23:19:02 <kaektech> ka6sox: Oh, I agree on that part, it waas the "hit me baby" part... heh
May 28 23:19:12 <fiola> It's not "target" devices that are the problem (they get better all the time), but *slow* targets, and targets with flash-based storage.
May 28 23:19:12 <m_billybob> no, someone had teh creeper "card" tossed in their general direction
May 28 23:19:21 <mru> kaektech: what are we, prudes?
May 28 23:19:23 <ka6sox> did I say hit me baby?
May 28 23:19:29 * ka6sox scrolls up
May 28 23:19:34 <mru> you did not
May 28 23:19:50 <mru> http://26-26-54.hardwarebug.org/167
May 28 23:19:51 <kaektech> Maybe I was getting excited?
May 28 23:20:07 <kaektech> s/hit/hurt/whatever?
May 28 23:20:09 <m_billybob> fiola, dahm that song almost seems to go on forever
May 28 23:20:51 <m_billybob> fiola, thouh for me and personally the overtones are a bit too jazzy for me, love the background music though
May 28 23:20:56 <ka6sox> kaektech, when I was growing up there was a DJ in town here who used to say "Hurt me baby, Make me write Bad Checks"
May 28 23:21:25 <kaektech> check-into-cash
May 28 23:21:29 <fiola> m_billybob: cycling kfoltman's Trouble again, it grew on me :-)
May 28 23:21:39 <m_billybob> :)
May 28 23:21:54 * mranostay harlems shakes in
May 28 23:22:00 <m_billybob> Dont know who the singer is but she does have a pretty voice
May 28 23:22:16 <m_billybob> not normally my style of music
May 28 23:22:47 <shapr> m_billybob: What music is that?
May 28 23:23:00 <m_billybob> mp3 kf pasted earlier
May 28 23:23:25 <mru> mp3, eeeew
May 28 23:23:26 <m_billybob> think its kis band and possibly his wife singing ? but idk for sure
May 28 23:23:30 <ka6sox> kaektech, you know the funny part...its been immortalized.
May 28 23:23:44 * shapr downloads
May 28 23:23:52 <fiola> m_billybob:  Dunno if you noticed, but that Revolution Void band has Michael Shrieve on it ... Santana.  CC !!!
May 28 23:24:36 <fiola> Yeah, it's fusion, very jazzy
May 28 23:24:51 <m_billybob> fiola, no i didnt not a huge fan, but anyone whose played guitar knows atleast a few Carlos songs
May 28 23:25:02 * fiola nods
May 28 23:25:29 <m_billybob> me and my guitar playing came to an understqanding long ago
May 28 23:25:51 <m_billybob> that was me going one way and the guitar goign the other
May 28 23:25:53 <fiola> OMG, so you managed to play it.  Jamendo webbies must have had an off month :P
May 28 23:26:23 <mru> I came to an understanding long ago that the only thing I should be playing is recorded music
May 28 23:26:38 <m_billybob> mru and perhaps listenign to it ?
May 28 23:26:44 <m_billybob> listening to it too
May 28 23:26:47 <m_billybob> bah
May 28 23:26:57 <mru> that's sort of the point
May 28 23:27:41 * mranostay notes we are really off topic today
May 28 23:27:51 <mru> what topic?
May 28 23:28:00 * fiola notes that mranostay used the word "notes"
May 28 23:28:36 <mru> a few more notes and you'll have a chord
May 28 23:28:46 <fiola> We could steer it around to BBB audio :P
May 28 23:28:58 <mru> where would be the fun in that?
May 28 23:29:13 <fiola> I2S is on the headers, isn't it?
May 28 23:29:29 <mastiff> Analog outs :)
May 28 23:29:36 <mastiff> not sure how fast they are
May 28 23:30:22 <fiola> JazzMan would know.
May 28 23:30:41 <mastiff> it's the A8 documentation I think
May 28 23:30:44 <mastiff> in
May 28 23:31:01 <mastiff> for the ARM processor
May 28 23:31:05 <mru> no
May 28 23:31:10 <mru> nothing analogue about that
May 28 23:31:29 <Shadyman> i2s is on the headers
May 28 23:31:30 <m_billybob> AINx
May 28 23:31:38 <mastiff> ok, so then it would be in the BBB hardware docs
May 28 23:31:45 <Shadyman> well
May 28 23:31:48 <fiola> I2S is digital, but I seem to remember reading it's stereo max even though SoC can do more
May 28 23:31:51 * mranostay also notes the office walls here must have embedded wire mesh
May 28 23:32:00 <mastiff> for DACs between the ARM and the analog outputs?
May 28 23:32:26 <mru> mranostay: enough that you dare remove your tinfoil hat?
May 28 23:32:51 <Shadyman> mru: no way. never enough shielding for that
May 28 23:33:05 <mranostay> mru: well lets just let our guard down..geez..
May 28 23:33:16 <mastiff> are the BBB analog outs even true analog, or just PCM?
May 28 23:33:21 <mastiff> PWM
May 28 23:39:08 <thurgood> having some trouble building the latest u-boot it's failing to find stuff like 'omap_set_gpio_dataout'
May 28 23:55:54 <thurgood> no ideas.. not even an rtfm?
May 28 23:56:56 <m_billybob> none here although i *could* toss otu the gratuitous RTFM?!
May 28 23:58:13 <Shadyman> LOL RTFM
May 28 23:58:16 <Shadyman> There, it's been said.
May 28 23:58:21 <mru> R T F M !
May 28 23:58:27 <Shadyman> thurgood: Though, from experience, uBoot can be a pain in the ass.
May 28 23:58:46 <m_billybob> play F E A R and read the fat guys belt buckle at the end
May 28 23:58:46 <thurgood> ah, you guys do care.. lol
May 28 23:58:50 <m_billybob> it says . . .
May 28 23:58:53 <m_billybob> "RTFM"
May 28 23:59:36 <Shadyman> m_billybob: That was completely unexpected, especially given our current conversation.
May 28 23:59:44 <m_billybob> i know right.
May 28 23:59:49 <Shadyman> for serious
May 29 00:01:10 * m_billybob would probably google each exact error in hopes of finding something
May 29 00:01:36 <mastiff> you might need to export the gcc path again
May 29 00:01:57 <mastiff> i had to do that for u-boot after restarting my computer
May 29 00:02:44 <thurgood> it's compiling up to the link stage, it fails due to the undefined references
May 29 00:02:45 <mastiff> I was getting errors at this step: make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=${CC}
May 29 00:03:35 <mranostay> so today i learned icc still exists
May 29 00:04:06 <mastiff> Compiling gnu radio now....
May 29 00:04:13 <mastiff> Looks like it will take hours.
May 29 00:05:35 <mranostay> we need software defined software
May 29 00:05:56 <mru> radio-defined software
May 29 00:06:06 <mastiff> hardware defined software
May 29 00:06:24 <mranostay> hardware defined hardware
May 29 00:06:36 <mru> undefined
May 29 00:07:16 <SpeedEvil>  M4, OTA upgrades, microcode, hardware
May 29 00:08:23 <mru> was it really necessary to say m4?
May 29 00:08:27 <mru> now I'll have nightmares
May 29 00:08:31 <mranostay> SpeedEvil: no microbrews?
May 29 00:08:41 <mru> beer defined software
May 29 00:08:51 <SpeedEvil> mru: m4 doesn't scare me.
May 29 00:09:00 <SpeedEvil> I wrote a sendmail.cf by hand once.
May 29 00:09:05 <mranostay> beer defined decisions
May 29 00:09:13 <mru> SpeedEvil: I've done that too
May 29 00:09:14 <mastiff_> hehe
May 29 00:09:19 <Suboptimus> beer driven development
May 29 00:09:20 <mru> then i switched to postfix
May 29 00:09:36 <mru> software defined trolls
May 29 00:09:43 <SpeedEvil> I was needing to accept *@domain to one account - and  m4 couldn't do it at the time
May 29 00:09:48 <m_billybob> thought that was alcohol induced trolls ?
May 29 00:10:18 <m_billybob> or instant a-h... just add alcohol
May 29 00:10:30 <mru> instant troll, just add alcohol
May 29 00:10:55 <mranostay> i'm a troll when sober thank you
May 29 00:11:00 <mranostay> although alcohol does increase the level
May 29 00:11:06 <mru> mranostay: you're a troll when drunk too
May 29 00:11:25 <ka6sox> mru, mranostay is a Full Time Troll...
May 29 00:11:35 <mru> realtime troll?
May 29 00:11:42 <ka6sox> that too.
May 29 00:12:21 <mru> beertime troll
May 29 00:13:06 <ka6sox> anytime troll
May 29 00:13:43 <mru> any place too?
May 29 00:14:40 <ka6sox> mru, haven't seen any boundries followed yet.
May 29 00:26:45 <alexlist> Good morning!
May 29 00:27:48 <alexlist> I see an error on top of the wiki page... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5711947/
May 29 00:29:20 <alexlist> BTW, can anyone tell me what crazy features are not mentioned in the docs of the BeagleBone black? I live in Hong Kong and had to sign an export declaration, basically committing to a) not building nukes or other WMDs with the BeagleBone Black, b) not modifying the device. I don't have the remaining ingredients for a), so I'm more worried about b) - is installing Ubuntu a modification?
May 29 00:29:58 <Suboptimus> Uh, I guess you can boot Ubuntu off of an SD card if you're really paranoid.
May 29 00:30:09 <beng-nl> alexlist: remaining ingredients :-)
May 29 00:30:42 <mru> yeah, mranostay got the uranium
May 29 00:30:54 <alexlist> Suboptimus: but installing an SD card is a modification ;)
May 29 00:31:07 <mru> alexlist: I wouldn't worry about it
May 29 00:31:27 <Suboptimus> I think it's easier to argue your way out of that one than reflashing the eMMC though
May 29 00:31:29 <alexlist> No guys, srsly, what's it with the BeagleBone Black that I had to sign this, and not for the RPi?
May 29 00:32:01 <mru> you'd be a fool to build a missile control system with an rpi
May 29 00:32:24 <alexlist> Maybe because the RPi shipped out of Singapore with element14/Farnell, and the BBB out of the UK ...
May 29 00:32:44 <mru> that may well have something to do with it
May 29 00:32:49 <alexlist> mru: ahhh - I see. So you're saying if building a missile control system, use the BBB :)
May 29 00:33:11 <alexlist> because of all the I/Os
May 29 00:52:32 <ketas> bbb-wdm
May 29 00:52:35 <ketas> wmd
May 29 00:52:38 <ketas> bleh
May 29 00:52:59 <mru> wmd-cape, anyone?
May 29 00:53:17 <ketas> hahaha
May 29 00:53:28 <ketas> i wonder why they even care about things like this
May 29 00:53:44 <mru> to which "they" do you refer?
May 29 00:54:11 <ketas> whoever came up with (false) export restrictions
May 29 00:54:41 <mru> the chip falls in some rather broad category with export restrictions
May 29 00:55:07 <mru> normally a manufacturer of, say, a phone would clear the final product for export
May 29 00:56:05 <mru> or the distrubutors in other countries would take care of it
May 29 01:01:17 <ketas> bbb missile
May 29 01:02:17 <ketas> well, but what do they actually use to build wmd's?
May 29 01:03:24 <SpeedEvil> arduino
May 29 01:03:40 <mru> warduino
May 29 01:07:12 <ketas> woprino
May 29 01:16:39 <mrpackethead> what you arguing about
May 29 01:17:23 <emeb> mrpackethead: got BCC boards. Thx.
May 29 01:17:32 <mrpackethead> already. wow
May 29 01:17:36 <mrpackethead> that was quck
May 29 01:17:47 <emeb> when did you mail 'em?
May 29 01:17:55 <mrpackethead> Friday
May 29 01:18:01 <emeb> That is fast.
May 29 01:18:32 <mrpackethead> probalby the rest of the folks will have theirs arriveing any moment
May 29 01:18:38 <mrpackethead> get those soldering irons ready!
May 29 01:18:47 <mrpackethead> theres still a few left
May 29 01:38:00 <cleb> I'm attempting to get Debian installed on my new BBB. I am following http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian using netinstall. I am having issues with getting the network to work, dhcp fails, and manual configuration does not work either. The sdcard setup script mentioned an issue with the onboard ethernet. I don't have a usb ethernet adapter, is there a different way to get this installed?
May 29 01:44:44 <kaektech> Wow, guess I better hit the digikey.
May 29 01:45:20 <mastiff> Digikey has all the parts except for one
May 29 01:49:17 <mrpackethead> what do you need mastiff?
May 29 01:52:10 <mastiff_> This is the part I couldn't get from digikey http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vectron/VCC1-B3D-50M0000000/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhMYCDpG%252brs7yPo1vyS8752UKEA%252bn8Ua0gdYnpVcTvwxA%3d%3d
May 29 01:52:52 <mastiff_> Couldn't find a sub either with the correct specs and package size.
May 29 01:53:01 <mastiff_> But mouser has it in stock.
May 29 01:53:19 <mastiff_> uh i take that back
May 29 01:53:25 <mastiff_> out of stock at mouser
May 29 01:54:07 <mastiff_> 9week lead time lol
May 29 01:54:36 <m_billybob> cleb ethernet or g-ether ?
May 29 01:55:30 <maxinux> does anyone have X working in anything other than angstrom on BBB?
May 29 01:55:54 <cleb> m_billybob: I'm using the onboard ethernet on the BBB, hooked to a Cisco 10/100 router.
May 29 01:56:33 <mrpackethead> mastiff, i founda  sub
May 29 01:56:35 <mrpackethead> hold a sec
May 29 01:57:04 <mrpackethead> DK part 887-1379-1-ND
May 29 01:57:25 <cleb> I got the demo image booted up, is there an easy way to install to the internal flash from that?
May 29 01:57:34 <m_billybob> cleb try pointing resolve.conf -> nameserver to your router. humor me
May 29 01:57:49 <m_billybob> on the sd install
May 29 01:58:10 <mrpackethead> mastiff_: embed got his boards today
May 29 01:58:12 <cleb> Using manual config?
May 29 01:58:19 <mrpackethead> so yours wont' be far behind.
May 29 01:58:33 <cleb> I don't have a dns relay setup on that router, but you say it may work?
May 29 01:59:49 <mastiff_> Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.  Need to track down that oscillator.
May 29 02:00:38 <m_billybob> cleb, default resolve.conf -> nameserver is 192.168.1.1
May 29 02:00:44 <m_billybob> cleb you have such a network ?
May 29 02:01:15 <m_billybob> cleb whatever the case point it to your local network gateway that does have dns
May 29 02:02:36 <m_billybob> cleb, i had these same issues with that setup, and until I set the nameserver, i couldnt ssh in so yeah stumped but it worked for me
May 29 02:03:26 <m_billybob> cleb, and yeah, ive used both configurations dhcp and static
May 29 02:03:36 <cleb> oh, I'm not even that far. I can't get the net install to even configure the network to download packages + install debian
May 29 02:04:02 <m_billybob> ?
May 29 02:04:11 <m_billybob> which step ?
May 29 02:04:21 <cleb> seems there is an issue with the network using net install that is a known issue, I'm just trying to find a way around it without using a external usb network adapter.
May 29 02:04:39 <cleb> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian
May 29 02:04:49 <m_billybob> oh you're on a beagleboard ?
May 29 02:05:40 <m_billybob> cleb try these instruction instead
May 29 02:05:46 <m_billybob> cleb -> http://eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black
May 29 02:05:50 <m_billybob> written by tghe same guy
May 29 02:06:04 <m_billybob> you compile uboot and kernel from sourced the ndownload rootfs
May 29 02:06:09 <m_billybob> sources*
May 29 02:06:47 <m_billybob> well hmm
May 29 02:07:14 <m_billybob> except the instructions i just linked requires a cross compile system
May 29 02:07:19 <m_billybob> so yeah
May 29 02:07:24 <m_billybob> just dawned on me
May 29 02:10:37 <emeb> mrpackethead: http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/pmod_adapter/index.html
May 29 02:11:02 <emeb> board for converting the BCC 28-pin connector to 3x Digilent PMODs.
May 29 02:11:46 <mastiff_> mrpackethead:  This looks like an acceptable sub for the 50MHz oscillator  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/FXO-HC735-50/631-1060-1-ND/1024765
May 29 02:13:30 <brendan_> Is anyone using USB Wifi on the beaglebone black?
May 29 02:13:56 <mru> I've heard the notion mentioned before
May 29 02:14:02 <emeb> mastiff_: that pkg is slightly different.
May 29 02:14:14 <m_billybob> mru, probably al over the google groups . . .
May 29 02:14:27 <brendan_> i have it working but its brutally slow and unreliable
May 29 02:14:44 <m_billybob> sounds like a bum driver
May 29 02:14:49 <mru> sounds like usb
May 29 02:14:50 <m_billybob> ( posibly )
May 29 02:14:51 <mru> and wifi
May 29 02:15:01 <mru> now multiply the two
May 29 02:15:09 <brendan_> it just stop working, then starts again
May 29 02:15:18 <mastiff_> emeb: what about this one:  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ECS-3953M-500-B-TR/XC795CT-ND/332645
May 29 02:15:25 <m_billybob> brendan_ how are you powering your board ?
May 29 02:15:26 <thurgood> how are the .depends generated in uboot, specifically al the ones under spl?
May 29 02:15:46 <brendan_> 2A jack
May 29 02:16:18 <emeb> mastiff_: the one mrpackethead linked is better: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/7W-50.000MBA-T/887-1379-1-ND/2207961
May 29 02:16:50 <m_billybob> brendan_, then it is probably what mru says. although can you test your signal strength ?
May 29 02:16:53 <mastiff_> oh, I had missed that.... thanks
May 29 02:17:23 <mrpackethead> mastiff_: that ones good
May 29 02:17:24 <mrpackethead> :-)
May 29 02:17:58 <mastiff_> That completes my Digi-Key order :)
May 29 02:18:47 <brendan_> Signal level=-35 dBm
May 29 02:19:13 <mastiff_> may as well install the xilinx software....
May 29 02:19:48 <alexlist> can you guys recommend a decent enclosure for the BBB? Or does anyone have files to 3d print one? ;)
May 29 02:20:07 <mrpackethead> alexlist: i printed mine
May 29 02:20:24 <mrpackethead> theres some good models on thingiverse
May 29 02:20:40 <maxinux> working on a new one
May 29 02:20:43 <maxinux> all the current ones suckj
May 29 02:20:46 <m_billybob> theres a good case or one that looks good posted on the google groups today
May 29 02:20:49 <m_billybob> two piece metal
May 29 02:21:47 <mrpackethead> maybe we should get some cnc machined
May 29 02:21:48 <mastiff_> planning on making a nice wooden case.  I have lots of scrap teak, rosewood, and walnut from boatbuilding.
May 29 02:21:51 <mrpackethead> lol.
May 29 02:21:53 <mrpackethead> :-)
May 29 02:23:28 <mranostay> the mrpackethead
May 29 02:23:46 <mrpackethead> the mranostay
May 29 02:24:26 <m_billybob> brendan_ that sounds reasonable i think ( been a while ) what does ping say ?
May 29 02:25:51 <brendan_> unknown hose
May 29 02:25:59 <brendan_> sometimes it works, sometime no dice
May 29 02:26:28 <m_billybob> so its dropping packets
May 29 02:26:34 <brendan_> yup
May 29 02:26:57 <brendan_> its an EN7811UN
May 29 02:27:12 <m_billybob> have you check on the google groups ?
May 29 02:27:15 <m_billybob> checked*
May 29 02:27:20 <brendan_> 50% packet loss from the last ping of google
May 29 02:27:33 <brendan_> yeah i haven't found anything particulaly usefull
May 29 02:28:21 <m_billybob> and the wireless router it connects to is known workign good id imagine
May 29 02:28:44 <mastiff_> this one looks interesting also http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/radio/txdac/index.html
May 29 02:29:07 <brendan_> yup, using it right now
May 29 02:30:10 <m_billybob> well idk man, i dont know the state of the usb drivers and/or the drivers for that given dongle
May 29 02:30:54 <m_billybob> was this a recommended device from adafruit or circuitco ?
May 29 02:32:06 <brendan_> not the brand, but its the same chipset as the adafruit one
May 29 02:34:47 <m_billybob> mru, you've tested usb wirless id assume ?
May 29 02:36:16 <m_billybob> 50% packet loss soudns suspiciously like a broken device or drivers
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 29 02:59:58 2013