**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 16 02:59:59 2014 Jun 16 03:07:30 oh i suppose it helps if you use the correct image Jun 16 03:08:41 lol oops! Jun 16 03:09:24 i had downloaded the nonemmc earlier today Jun 16 03:14:03 * vagrantc never quite understood why it needed a second image for flashing vs. just running off the SD Jun 16 03:14:58 one image could easily handle both cases, just would need a way to boot with different args, or touch a file on the image... Jun 16 03:21:31 cat fur is good for the bbb right? Jun 16 03:23:29 hmmm still not booting Jun 16 03:25:29 Good evening ! Was wondering if the Beaglebone Black would be suitable platform for a project I am working on Jun 16 03:28:21 hm Jun 16 03:28:26 anyone on the channel tonight ? Jun 16 03:28:32 hi Jun 16 03:28:57 good evening zsnafu Jun 16 04:18:49 hello! I have a rev B board, and I am using a 16GB microSD card. I downloaded the latest debian image onto it, and boot, but it seems the card isn't recognized Jun 16 04:19:44 Here is the pastebin for mount and df -H if that helps: http://pastebin.com/C3e15wBm Jun 16 04:20:25 not sure if dmesg is needed, but here it is: http://pastebin.com/xSpeXS3R Jun 16 04:20:45 Is there any way to re-partition SD card to fix the problem? Currently apt-get fails due to out of space.... Jun 16 04:27:21 do I just need to hold the button? Jun 16 04:27:40 looks like you just dropped an image onto it that was built for maybe a 2G card, so the partition structure Jun 16 04:27:50 ... only uses that amount of space Jun 16 04:28:17 can I fix it from BBB, without ejecting the card :)? Jun 16 04:30:37 if I were dealing with this, I would work out what the structure looks like, then reproduce it on the large card, only with larger partitions, then copy the contents into the larger card. But this entails some understanding of linux partitioning, file system creation, etc. And I haven't actually _done_ this with one of these BBB images, so I don't have a recipe I can recite, I'd have to actually work through it. Jun 16 04:31:02 I suspect that trying to do this _on_ the BBB is an exercise in pain and frustration. Jun 16 04:31:21 otoh, if you're in a benighted state of having only windows machines to work with, ... Jun 16 04:32:02 haha. I do have cygwin installed if that helps... Jun 16 04:32:06 shadowpho: there's a script for resizing on the debian image in /opt/scripts/tools (or /opt/tools/scripts?) Jun 16 04:33:58 oooo, I think I see it, vagrantc! Jun 16 04:34:41 it may require a rebot to finish the process Jun 16 04:36:11 thank you, vagrantc, it fixed it! Jun 16 04:36:13 rootfs 16G 1.7G 14G 11% / Jun 16 04:37:35 There's a bunch of update_ scripts in that folder. Should I be updating anything? Jun 16 04:42:11 only if you want to Jun 16 04:45:17 thank you, everyone! Looks like it'll work fine. Will test apache later :) Jun 16 05:48:52 Error: Can't use SMBus Quick Write command on this bus Jun 16 05:48:59 what's up with that on i2cdetect Jun 16 10:22:07 so, is there some go to program for joystick interaction in angstrom? Jun 16 10:27:47 im trying to move a usb joystick servo serial control python script over and the package tree doesnt seem to have pygame Jun 16 11:44:14 how does u-boot work on the BBB? I am a newbie but I always thought the processor loads the bootloader from a specific memory address in memory but with the BBB I can just drop in a file named u-boot.img. But this is one a fat filesystem. How does it end up at the right address? Or is there another bootloader before that Jun 16 11:44:19 ? Jun 16 11:44:33 that can read fat Jun 16 11:45:37 yes Jun 16 11:45:44 the ROM code loads a bootloader from FAT Jun 16 11:45:52 or from raw emmc/SD Jun 16 11:46:19 ah, and it just checks for the first one it finds.. so for FAT it looks for a filename convention Jun 16 11:46:22 ? Jun 16 11:46:55 booting stuff is complicated ;) Jun 16 11:46:57 "MLO" Jun 16 11:47:04 its all explained in the TRM Jun 16 11:47:10 ROMCODE->MLO->UBOOT->KERNEL Jun 16 11:47:29 where MLO could be uboot-spl Jun 16 11:47:44 always read the manual Jun 16 11:47:45 the CPU does not care Jun 16 11:47:45 yes Jun 16 11:47:59 ROM->something, done Jun 16 11:48:58 ok thanks guys Jun 16 11:49:39 I'll check out the manual.. the diagrams just freaked me out, sorry for bothering **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 16 11:51:49 2014 Jun 16 11:52:33 they are just lines Jun 16 11:53:34 makes sense.. yeah thanks.. it's a lot to take in at once. Thanks so much for the rtfm and nice explanation. It helps to know that it makes sense in the end..somtimes it helps to get reminded of that Jun 16 12:20:19 have Farnell discontinued the BBB? Jun 16 12:20:36 according to the email support, they have said they have... Jun 16 12:24:37 BBONE-BLACK-4G try that part number SiC Jun 16 12:25:52 zero products found on CPC Jun 16 12:25:55 on BBONE-BLACK-4G Jun 16 12:26:04 that is pretty typical .. no stock Jun 16 12:26:06 doesn't make sense that CPC don't list it Jun 16 12:26:10 but farnell/e14 do Jun 16 12:26:15 even though they're sister companies Jun 16 12:26:29 http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=DFW2AK3KPJPFUCQLCIRJOXQ?N=411&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=BBONE-BLACK-4G&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&exposeLevel2Refinement=true&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=147823 Jun 16 12:35:26 ok Jun 16 12:35:47 well it seems that farnell only does their e14 built version Jun 16 12:35:52 however CPC don't appear to list it yet Jun 16 12:36:14 plus farnell is usually more expensive for stuff like this than CPC Jun 16 12:43:09 25 Jul, 2014 - Farnell is listing to receive new stock Jun 16 12:43:16 looks like farnell has gone to element14 for the bbb Jun 16 12:43:38 yea Jun 16 12:43:49 I've just ordered through farnell now Jun 16 12:43:58 annoying as CPC are usually cheaper Jun 16 13:38:03 can the beagle have wifi, audio in, and camera cape all at the same time? (not using USB) Jun 16 13:38:53 Depends on what interfaces each are using, but I see no immediate reason not. Jun 16 13:39:26 I was worried about overlapping of pins Jun 16 13:41:14 So use non-overlapping pins. Jun 16 13:41:22 Or, use shared busses for the interfaces. Jun 16 13:41:49 Interesting Jun 16 13:42:00 I've got three capes in mind Jun 16 13:42:01 http://elinux.org/CircuitCo:BeagleBone_TiWi-5E_w/_Chip_Antenna Jun 16 13:42:05 http://elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBone_HD_Camera_Cape Jun 16 13:42:08 http://elinux.org/CircuitCo:Audio_Cape_RevB Jun 16 13:42:17 So, I would have to look at all the pins each cape is using Jun 16 13:42:18 Yeah I am not going to follow any of those. Jun 16 13:42:20 Yes. Jun 16 13:42:36 What happens when any one of those capes use the same pins for something? Jun 16 13:42:38 There should be a standard pinout image for each, if they actually are registered capes. Jun 16 13:42:46 Yeah, they do Jun 16 13:42:51 Thatg depends on what the pin is being used for. Jun 16 13:43:16 If it is part of a shared bus interface, like I2C, and all the capes that share it use it for that, no issues. Jun 16 13:43:18 Aside from ground and power Jun 16 13:43:23 ohhh Jun 16 13:43:24 okay Jun 16 13:43:51 If it is being used differently by different capes, you may have a problem if there is not a way to selectively enablke and disable that functionality on the respective capes. Jun 16 13:43:53 I am assuming, capes can be stacked on capes? lol Jun 16 13:44:20 sometimes Jun 16 13:44:32 If they a) have stacking headers, b) have mechanical clearance and c) conform to the official cape specification, yes. Jun 16 13:45:00 sweet Jun 16 13:45:24 xD1845: The cape specification requires an I2C EEPROM ont he cape with a DIP switch to set its address to one of 4 addresses. THe EEPROM needs to have a specific dataset in it, which tells the device tree what to do witht he pins to make the cape work. Jun 16 13:45:39 Gotcha Jun 16 13:45:45 If one of your capes does not have this, set the others to non-conflicting addresses. Jun 16 13:45:53 Yup makes sense Jun 16 13:45:59 If more than one does not have it, you will have to get creative with software. Jun 16 13:46:08 What kind of stuff have you done with your beagle? Jun 16 13:46:26 Not all that much. Jun 16 13:46:44 Whaa, how do you know so much xD Jun 16 13:46:47 Built a system for my hackerspace to allow members to mark the space as open or closed to guests. Jun 16 13:47:01 Working on using it as a control system for a mobile robot. Jun 16 13:47:07 Oh nice Jun 16 13:47:17 mjgardes is using one to run a solar MPPT system. Jun 16 13:47:33 xD1845: I read documentation before I work on projects. Jun 16 13:47:36 I am really new to the embedded world, used to have an RPI though… didn't like all of the closed source + proprietary guuu Jun 16 13:47:54 THat is how I know so much. Jun 16 13:48:03 : ) Jun 16 13:48:45 That, and I did a lot of embedded work in college, and much of that transfers--I can talk reasonably intelligently about PRU concepts withoput knowing anything about the PRU or the PRU assembly, because all assemblies are about the same in overall design. Jun 16 13:49:00 Ohh Jun 16 13:50:50 So, for example, simply knowing that the PRU is a RISC-like architecture with a one-cycle instruction set which runs at 200MHz lets me make a lot of reasonable guesses at how software for it should run. Jun 16 13:51:02 Right Jun 16 13:51:48 Now, I dod not know about specific, architecture-dependent instructions, so my theoretical program took 24 cycles to do what someone with specific knowledge could do in 4. Jun 16 13:51:52 *do Jun 16 13:52:32 But I can still offer guidance to a point on a lot of the system. Jun 16 13:53:20 (Incidentally, this is one of the biggest reasons we have a pretty strict "Do not ask to ask" policy here; No, I may never have touched the PRU. THis does not mean I cannot answer basic questions about it) Jun 16 13:53:44 hmm Jun 16 13:53:52 Do not ask to ask means, just ask the questions? Jun 16 13:53:57 Yeah./ Jun 16 13:54:03 I have never used IRC before this lol Jun 16 13:54:17 Instead of asking if anyone has ever done something, just ask the question you were going to ask anyway and wait for a response. Jun 16 13:55:25 "Has anyone ever worked with the PRU?" vs. "I would like to read a 15MHz counter with the PRU. I have read the TRM and SRM, and am still not sure whether the PRU is fast enough to do this. Can anyone offer suggestions on how I could determine this?" Jun 16 13:55:36 One of these is a more useful question in general than the other. Jun 16 13:55:46 Agreed Jun 16 13:56:21 I had the wrong approach to IRC, it's better to treat the question as a forum post header so it seems Jun 16 13:56:29 xD1845: Eric S. Raymond (ESR) has an excellent page entitled "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way". Its advice is still relevant, regardless of whether you are asking questions in person, over IRC, by email, or on a PHP forum. Jun 16 13:56:51 I strongly recommend reading it and taking its advice to heart. Jun 16 13:57:11 (it is probably linked from the http://beagleboard.org/chat help page) Jun 16 13:57:29 If not, someone should fix that Jun 16 13:57:33 xD1845: In a sense, yes. Jun 16 13:58:03 Yeah, I am aware… That's how I ask most of my questions when I am looking for a direct answer. There are some social situations where asking directly doesn't really apply, but that is different Jun 16 13:59:38 xD1845: Basically, you have to realize that IRC, while instantaneous in message delivery to all partiticpants, does not necessarily consume the attention of all who idle in the channel at any given time. So, the more information you can put into a question, to catch the interest of people who might be willing to help, and to demonstrate that you are worth helping (ie, you are capable of doing the Jun 16 13:59:44 legwork and critical thinking yourself but you got stuck somewhere), the more likely it is that you will be treated with respect and answers. Jun 16 14:00:00 Agreed, I was just unsure how "friendly" the people were in IRC Jun 16 14:00:02 Much like PHP fora. Jun 16 14:00:07 As I said, social context Jun 16 14:00:08 In this channel? Jun 16 14:00:11 Hah. Jun 16 14:00:38 No, no one in this channel is friendly unless you prove yourself not to be a useless waste of carbon. Jun 16 14:01:13 Because we get an awful lot of people tryijng to suck us dry, asking for "exact steps" for both the commonest and the most outrageous things. Jun 16 14:01:14 i think you May have an extra negation in there somewhere Jun 16 14:01:17 I would never ask a vague question to my professor, it would be 100% direct so that he can help me with exactly what I am looking for. Jun 16 14:01:30 xD1845: And here too the same. Jun 16 14:01:53 mjgardes: Nope, that parses exactly as I meant it. Jun 16 14:02:00 Now compare that to asking other students, unless they have direct interest (eg. what can they get from you?) they're not going to help you. Jun 16 14:02:16 Hence, the general "hey what's up etc. social butter" Jun 16 14:02:30 Thank you for letting me know how IRC works. Jun 16 14:02:39 xD1845: Technical support media are a cross between the two. Jun 16 14:02:44 oh, i skipped one of The first two as i read that Jun 16 14:02:50 I would rather ask questions directly than beat around the bush for an answer. Jun 16 14:02:52 We have no social obligation to help. Jun 16 14:03:01 Yeah, understood. Jun 16 14:03:03 Because none of us are paid to do this. Jun 16 14:03:13 well... Jun 16 14:03:25 But if you prove that you have an interesting problem, and can think, you will probably be rewarded. Jun 16 14:03:35 mjgardes: IRCing from work does not count. Jun 16 14:03:37 That's pretty nice. Jun 16 14:03:40 ha Jun 16 14:03:57 I guess from an university standpoint, you're taught to not help anyone essentially Jun 16 14:04:05 xD1845: But that is true of *all* technical support, whether it be IRC, or email, or fora, or phone. Jun 16 14:04:19 Yeah, you're right. Jun 16 14:04:34 Last time I called my ISP, I told them exactly where my packets were getting dropped on their network. Jun 16 14:04:38 Not "hey my internet doesn't work" Jun 16 14:04:40 The better you are at capturing the interest of those from which you seek help, the better the quality of that help. Jun 16 14:04:56 Hence ESR's article. Jun 16 14:05:16 He wrote it targeting mailing lists, but the rules apply everywhere. Jun 16 14:05:31 THis is why many IRC support channels have it linked in their FAQ or topics. Jun 16 14:06:06 Yeah, I just assumed you had to have some rapport Jun 16 14:06:10 It's clearly not like that. Jun 16 14:06:23 THis one does. #sparkfun used to. Jun 16 14:06:23 nope. Jun 16 14:06:36 well, sort If Jun 16 14:06:41 of* Jun 16 14:07:01 xD1845: In a world where you exist to others solely as a collection of text on a screen, what you put into that text, especially at first, literally defines you. Jun 16 14:07:02 It's apparent the judging is based on how the person asks the questions. Jun 16 14:07:08 Yup. Jun 16 14:07:20 As I said, I am really new to the whole online thing Jun 16 14:07:21 : 0 Jun 16 14:08:01 but there are so many people in here, i don't remember most from one day to The next Jun 16 14:08:05 Understood, but you have already demonstrated that you are aware that there *are* rules, even if you do not necessarily yet know them, and are willing to follow them once you learn them. Jun 16 14:08:22 And that, rioght there, is a big differentiator. Jun 16 14:08:22 Yeah, ofc. Jun 16 14:08:25 Must adapt. Jun 16 14:08:52 you have to know The rules before you can break them right Jun 16 14:09:16 mjgardes: no lol Jun 16 14:09:23 Try telling that to a police officer. Jun 16 14:10:00 i did. so far so good. Jun 16 14:10:04 xD Jun 16 14:10:05 Lucky Jun 16 14:13:01 Yeah, usually if you are polite and reasonable, the officer will let you go. Jun 16 14:13:14 (and white and male and not obviously poor or overly rich) Jun 16 14:13:51 All social factors :) Jun 16 14:13:54 There have been a couple times, I legitimately did not see the speed limit sign indicating a change. Politely explained that to the officer, got a warning and sent on my way. Jun 16 14:13:56 works for me Jun 16 14:14:02 My girlfriend gets away fine, but she also has boobs. Jun 16 14:14:11 Depends a lot on what you drive too. Jun 16 14:14:29 If you've got a red camaro, I highly doubt an officer is letting you off with a warning. Jun 16 14:16:14 Why do you think I will shortly be driving a grey/siler car? ;-P Jun 16 14:16:44 xD Jun 16 14:37:35 * mjgardes also drives an invisible car Jun 16 14:38:43 anybody use the nrf24l01 the beaglebone black? looking for a c++ library to work with this device Jun 16 14:38:50 I had a beetle Jun 16 14:57:12 Has been ages since I've done any soldering, but now have the minimal amount of parts for the truck computer. Jun 16 15:14:17 mistawright, how about using Python? https://github.com/jpbarraca/pynrf24 Jun 16 15:14:40 I havent used my RF24 modules with BBB yet, but I have about 10 of them here ready to go... Jun 16 15:17:01 all, Do you need a special USB WiFi dongle to turn a BBB into a WiFi access point ... or is it all in the software using a "regular" WiFi dongle? Jun 16 15:17:19 * VoltVisionSteve wonders if WiFi direct might be the answer? Jun 16 15:17:20 Yes. Jun 16 15:17:32 YOu need a dongle that supports Infrastructure mode. Jun 16 15:17:50 Otherwise, you get an Ad-Hoc network, which things like Android do not like to connect to. Jun 16 15:18:11 WiFi direct uses the Ad-hoc method I think. Jun 16 15:18:33 Right. Jun 16 15:18:53 So you just need to figure out what kind of clients you want to be able to connect. Jun 16 15:19:15 If you do not care about Android devices, you probably do not need the Infrastructure-enabled dongle. Jun 16 15:19:56 VoltVisionSteve, i am not wanting to use python. there seems to be alot of python libraries for the beaglebone black but i would like to write c/c++ programs for my beaglebone black Jun 16 15:20:01 If I bring my BBB to a party and want random people to connect and control functions on my BBB, then it is likely that I want to support Android phones I suppose. Jun 16 15:20:49 VoltVisionSteve: Then you probably need to seek out a Linux-compatible USB WiFi dongle that supports Infrastructure mode. Jun 16 15:21:12 VoltVisionSteve: Or, you know,l just get a standalone WiFi access point and connect it to the bone over Ethernet. Jun 16 15:22:07 agmlego, thx for the answers! Right now I am having my BBB travel with its own WiFi router to which it is hardwired to...but I was hoping to ditch the router and have the BBB do the access point part. Jun 16 15:22:23 Well, then you know what you need to do. ;-P Jun 16 15:22:49 agmlego, Sounds great. Thx!! Jun 16 15:24:34 This official BBB WiFi resource doesnt say anything about Infrastructure mode...yet... Jun 16 15:24:36 http://elinux.org/BBBWiFiConfigs Jun 16 15:24:50 Well, it *is* a wiki. Jun 16 15:25:00 But the datasheet for the dongle you choose will say. Jun 16 15:52:57 hello everyone Jun 16 15:53:39 i have a project under arduino and now i want to move it to a beagleboard black c. Jun 16 15:54:00 its different Jun 16 15:54:25 i just want to know how can i protect my scripts. Jun 16 15:54:29 protect? Jun 16 15:54:37 i mean to crypt my scripts Jun 16 15:54:56 i know about shc ... Jun 16 15:56:44 I doubt its effective protection Jun 16 15:57:19 is there any option to protect your project ? i know there is not like arduino where you upload straight to the chipset Jun 16 15:59:15 http://www.l0d.org/Decrypt_an_shc_crypted_file-6.html Jun 16 15:59:29 angel4u: there is no way to protect your stuff Jun 16 15:59:33 effectively Jun 16 15:59:50 you can glue the sd card slot, kill usb and serial boot Jun 16 16:00:01 and hope nobody can solder Jun 16 16:01:13 as with all security it allk depends on your specific needs Jun 16 16:01:16 threat model Jun 16 16:01:20 costs Jun 16 16:01:22 tradeoffs Jun 16 16:03:57 there won`t be a problem regarding move them to another machine because the HW adress can be used there Jun 16 16:04:11 the problem is reading/modify the scripts Jun 16 16:04:26 hw address? Jun 16 16:04:31 that can be faked too Jun 16 16:04:34 hardware adress Jun 16 16:04:54 i don`t mean mac adress Jun 16 16:05:07 yes Jun 16 16:05:13 you say scripts Jun 16 16:05:22 if I control the kernel, I can give you any hw address Jun 16 16:05:31 :) Jun 16 16:07:11 so there is no way to protect my scripts? Jun 16 16:09:24 not on the am335x, you need something with "protection" from initial bootup... Jun 16 16:10:14 hmmm Jun 16 16:10:19 arduino tre then Jun 16 16:10:35 but there are verry few io pins :( Jun 16 16:13:49 so i have been searching this morning for a way to handle pwm on the beaglebone black. I am have used arduinos with servos and am completely loss on where to begin with controlling a servo using the beaglebone black. Jun 16 16:14:11 are there any libraries that facilitate this as i have not found a good c++ library Jun 16 16:24:55 Hey, I am really new to the BBB and IRC in general. I am trying to set up a serial connection on RevC but I cant seem to get it working. I tried Minicom to view input, but I get nothing even after setting up the tty ports. Any suggestions? Jun 16 16:38:45 seems like every1 are sleeping in here Jun 16 16:38:52 or maybe they are on facebook :)) Jun 16 16:39:10 or 'working' ;) Jun 16 16:39:20 ... maybe yes ... Jun 16 16:39:21 :) Jun 16 16:39:54 or watching germany vs portugal Jun 16 16:40:19 there's quite a few from europe on this list, so that's likely Jun 16 16:40:33 :) Jun 16 16:41:06 ok so if i have my c++ file and i compile that with openssl to create a binary file Jun 16 16:41:16 that can ever be readable again? Jun 16 16:42:07 there's people on this list that can read machine code... unless you device is 'secure' from power on, you can't hide it.. Jun 16 16:43:05 so i cannot help someone by giving away a project like this Jun 16 16:43:30 ofcourse only if you give away 5-6 months of `work` Jun 16 16:44:30 angel4u, not on the "am335x" there are other devices from TI that have secure boot featurers.. Jun 16 16:44:40 like? Jun 16 16:44:57 omap4 Jun 16 16:49:24 so nohting can be done with bbb Jun 16 16:49:36 i`ll continue the projects with my arduino mega Jun 16 16:50:41 unless, you also blow the fuse bits on the avr, that's actually easier to read. ;) Jun 16 16:51:18 arduino mega easy to read? Jun 16 16:52:07 i don`t see that cipset too easy to desolder Jun 16 16:53:14 oh tqfp can be desoldered cheaply.. It's intruction set is well known, so easy to simulate. Along with multple ways to get access to flash, isp/parrale/jtag... Jun 16 16:53:55 tqfp = ? Jun 16 16:54:33 rcn-ee: most TI chips have secure-boot ability, including am335x afaik... whether TI is willing to supply them to you is another matter: when we inquired, it came with a 500.000-unit/year minimum order quantity Jun 16 16:54:51 (that was for the dm814x) Jun 16 16:55:20 zmatt, correct. I haven't actually seen any am335x with that ability enabled.. Jun 16 16:55:38 me neither, but it's there in the hardware Jun 16 16:56:06 the only one i've found for low volume applications would be Atmels' sama5.. Jun 16 16:56:47 it's really tragic... there's all this fancy security shit on all TI high-end SoCs, yet unless you're a very high volume customer you still don't have even the most basic code protection you'd find on any $2 microcontroller Jun 16 16:56:51 zmatt so you mean there is any way to secure my data on beaglebone? Jun 16 16:57:01 angel4u: epoxy resin? Jun 16 16:57:48 security is enforceable if you can somehow ensure the initial boot, that's the hard part Jun 16 16:58:07 to glue it/ Jun 16 16:58:08 ? Jun 16 16:58:27 which means preventing access to the bootmode pins and whatever storage medium is used to hold the initial bootloader Jun 16 16:58:43 i see Jun 16 16:59:09 but the bootmode pins are rather (in)conveniently easy to access on the beaglebone Jun 16 16:59:21 lol my son wants to power off the laptop Jun 16 16:59:24 effectively denying access to them will not be easy Jun 16 16:59:51 but to crypt my scripts? Jun 16 17:00:08 the software part will also not be easy Jun 16 17:00:23 even if someone copy them Jun 16 17:00:26 those scripts had better be really really valueable if you'd going to invest that much effort Jun 16 17:01:12 i mean if someone copy them to don`t be able to use them Jun 16 17:01:44 i remember years ago i have used shc on linux and mac adress to run the scripts Jun 16 17:01:59 the simplest protection would involve completely denying access to the system Jun 16 17:02:04 so if the mac adresss was changed on the eth0 the script won`t run Jun 16 17:02:12 that's no real protection Jun 16 17:02:18 ofcourse Jun 16 17:02:34 i was thinking if i make a script under c++ Jun 16 17:02:45 and make it binary file Jun 16 17:02:48 with openssl Jun 16 17:02:59 angel4u: Why bother? Jun 16 17:03:23 angel4u: What could yopu possibly be doing that is really worth that much, to lock down software on a deliberately-open-source platform? Jun 16 17:03:23 mostly what you're suggesting is impossible to do... the hard part is in establishing a root of trust Jun 16 17:03:24 why? because i don`t like someone to use them Jun 16 17:03:42 angel4u: Then the Beagle project is probably the wrong platform, being open-source and all. Jun 16 17:03:57 well, you can choose to load it with alternate software of course Jun 16 17:04:01 yes but another platform is too expensive Jun 16 17:04:11 angel4u: The concept you are discussing is pretty much antithetical to the project. Jun 16 17:04:22 angel4u: Oh darn, better roll that into the cost of doing business. Jun 16 17:04:38 agmlego: well, there do exist good applications of code protection Jun 16 17:04:44 zmatt: No, the hardware itself is also open-source. Jun 16 17:04:51 zmatt is right Jun 16 17:04:52 zmatt: Such as? Jun 16 17:05:00 shc ahahaha Jun 16 17:05:14 so ... Jun 16 17:05:26 I have no idea what that even is. Jun 16 17:05:32 shc? Jun 16 17:05:43 google says: Spontaneous human combustion (SHC)... Jun 16 17:05:52 agmlego: see the OLPC which uses a trusted boot mechanism to make sure the laptop becomes worthless if stolen (since these laptops are often deployed in countries where otherwise the ownership of the laptop would probably be pretty dangerous to children) Jun 16 17:05:53 Spontaneous Human Combustion, says Wikipedia. Jun 16 17:06:11 rcn Jun 16 17:06:16 we think too high here Jun 16 17:06:29 zmatt: Except the OLPC pretty much was a failure from the beginning. Next. Jun 16 17:06:31 agmlego: it can more generally help protect personal data on devices if stolen Jun 16 17:06:53 zmatt: Data encryption is not the same as software IP protection. Next. Jun 16 17:06:56 finally people are working here guyz Jun 16 17:07:03 ok. Jun 16 17:07:22 i don`t want to protect the dta Jun 16 17:07:25 data* Jun 16 17:07:32 i just want to encrypt that Jun 16 17:07:33 agmlego: no, but code protection does allow low-entropy (i.e. human memorable) passwords to be used securely Jun 16 17:07:45 zmatt: Citation needed. Jun 16 17:07:54 agmlego: hehehe Jun 16 17:08:01 Low-entropy passwords are easy to crack. Next. Jun 16 17:08:05 so if someone download or copy my scripts, to don``t be able to use them in another machine Jun 16 17:08:20 not if you're limited in the rate of (or number of) attempts Jun 16 17:08:25 angel4u: Is what you are doing so valuable that someone would even care to do that? Jun 16 17:08:26 which is why a 4-digit pin can secure a bank card Jun 16 17:08:42 zmatt: Except that is still not software IP protection. Next. Jun 16 17:09:23 agmlego is a automatisation for a project Jun 16 17:09:31 this project is a farm Jun 16 17:09:41 it doesn't require the software to be secret no, but it does require that only specific software (which is able to perform the rate-limited authentication) is able to access certain data (the actual encryption keys) Jun 16 17:09:45 its a modular project Jun 16 17:09:50 angel4u: Anything you do with software is an autonomization of a project. Jun 16 17:10:02 which is the same core functionality Jun 16 17:10:06 but Jun 16 17:10:09 angel4u, like jenkins? Jun 16 17:10:27 as much as I'd like to elaborate.. I really need to kick myself to do some shopping before they close Jun 16 17:10:29 agmlego so its a modular project i have work and running in arduino right now, (arduino mega) Jun 16 17:10:43 have 3 main Jun 16 17:10:48 jenkins? Jun 16 17:11:02 i have 3 main modules what can be enable/disable any time Jun 16 17:11:18 comfort module, iriigation module with 4 zonez Jun 16 17:11:21 zones* Jun 16 17:11:33 jenkins a farm automation project, to give workloads to nodes.. (sounds similar) Jun 16 17:11:36 and a special module for the plants nurserry Jun 16 17:12:00 angel4u: And you are going to be selling these systems? Jun 16 17:12:24 agmlego the problem is : i have 2-3 guyz who want a 'help' Jun 16 17:12:32 rcn-ee: No, it sounds like angel4u means an actual farm for plants. Jun 16 17:12:33 and i have no problem to 'help' them Jun 16 17:13:06 but they may see this project a way to make some cash Jun 16 17:13:18 can i post a link? Jun 16 17:13:18 yeah, i got that too.. ;) funny as i live on a farm, but i was thinking it was a buidl farm.. ;) http://www.harvestai.com/ Jun 16 17:13:29 angel4u: Sure, but do you trust us? Jun 16 17:13:32 ;-P Jun 16 17:13:34 angel4u: use a contract to keep them from doing that, doing it with software is nearly impossible Jun 16 17:13:54 that's what nda's are for. ;) piss off your customers. ;) Jun 16 17:14:05 ^^^ Jun 16 17:14:06 agmlego i don`t trust myself and you know why? i go to sleep with the hand under the head and when i wake up the hand is ... Jun 16 17:14:29 zmatt ... you right too Jun 16 17:14:37 angel4u: I have nothing polite to say in answer to that. Jun 16 17:14:51 lol Jun 16 17:14:52 agmlego i`ll get the slap :) Jun 16 17:15:12 wait a second i`ll find the link Jun 16 17:15:31 but software IP protection basically requires either sealing up the whole device, or having a "root of trust" able to set up an isolated environment Jun 16 17:16:02 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zr2858sp1junyy6/20140317_1852390.mp4 Jun 16 17:16:03 the latter is technically not hard, but either it's available in the hardware platform or it's not Jun 16 17:16:18 and more often than not, it's not Jun 16 17:16:21 you may not understand the language Jun 16 17:16:31 Yeah, not clicking that without more information of what it is. Jun 16 17:16:49 agmlego its a video of my arduino project Jun 16 17:16:54 wait, why am I still chatting instead of shopping... afk Jun 16 17:17:05 zmatt :) Jun 16 17:17:41 angel4u: And how big is it? Is it safe for work? Is it something I am interested in? Jun 16 17:18:15 so the comfort module have 2 sensors , wind sensor and DHT22 sensor and the temperature/wind/humidity can be set by a remote control Jun 16 17:18:22 whole module can be enabled/disabled Jun 16 17:19:18 this is a picture with the start of my farm Jun 16 17:19:19 https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8vjrf3v1em7wxx/20140331_120558.jpg Jun 16 17:19:27 when i have put the frames up Jun 16 17:20:58 https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sxanxgi3gv95rt/2014-05-28%2019.58.34.jpg Jun 16 17:21:51 https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6t9tahme6876v5/2014-04-06%2011.05.16.jpg Jun 16 17:22:20 the problem is: arduino+ sensors are 100 euros Jun 16 17:22:40 another system can be more then 1000 euros Jun 16 17:23:29 agmlego you still here or i`m speaking to myself ? :)) Jun 16 17:24:34 ok i got it :)) Jun 16 17:25:34 angel4u: I have very different political views from you and your concpets of what to do with your project are abhorrent to me. I am not personally interested in farm equipment, and I have other things I could be doing right now, and I have nothing to offer to the discussion. Jun 16 17:25:55 angel4u: No offense, but this is not a conversation I am interested in continuing. I wish you the best of luck. Jun 16 17:26:07 ok thank you Jun 16 19:10:54 I have problemwith control area network in BBB, if I want to do a loop can, how shall I connect the pins? Jun 16 19:15:50 CAN does not support a ring topology. Jun 16 19:16:09 Or do you mean you want a loopback connection? Jun 16 20:08:10 Is anyone besides me experiencing problems with PWM on the latest Debian version? Jun 16 20:09:32 yes Jun 16 20:10:08 but my issue is probably unrelated to yours Jun 16 20:16:03 "You must start() the PWM channel first" I just get this message when I try to use "PWM.set_duty_cycle(" Jun 16 20:36:27 So start the PWM channel first? Jun 16 23:11:20 sshfs has been giving me a hell of a time today. It was constantly claiming permission denied so I unmounted it and now connection reset by peer every time I try to reconnect Jun 16 23:52:28 i can't use i2cdetect in debian :/ Jun 17 00:32:54 [kernel] RobertCNelson pushed 1 new commit to 3.8: http://git.io/QUssgg Jun 17 00:32:54 kernel/3.8 4704510 Robert Nelson: 3.8: config disable CONFIG_CFG80211_INTERNAL_REGDB... Jun 17 00:34:56 external msgs permitted here .. interesting Jun 17 00:50:30 * joel_ waits for his macbook pro 13" to arrive, prolly tomorrow morning =) Jun 17 00:53:08 $150 off thanks to wife's university. ME865LL/A version. got it for $1350 Jun 17 01:15:13 If you jumper VDD_ADC to an analog in the ADC should read 4096 right? Jun 17 02:17:54 If you jumper VDD_ADC to an analog in the ADC should read 4096 right? Jun 17 02:23:31 afternoon **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 17 02:59:58 2014