**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 25 03:00:01 2017
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 25 05:10:27 2017
Feb 25 11:09:30 <yam_> help
Feb 25 11:09:58 <yam_> getting error after apt-get upgrade
Feb 25 11:10:21 <yam_> bad session name: devel.some_random_number
Feb 25 11:10:29 <yam_> how can I solve it.
Feb 25 11:10:41 <yam_> Thanks in advance for help
Feb 25 11:12:37 <yam__> help
Feb 25 11:12:43 <yam__> urgent
Feb 25 11:16:15 <tbr> huh?
Feb 25 11:16:41 <tbr> what are you doing? what image are you running?
Feb 25 13:14:41 <_ssl> I noticed that the root user doesn't have a password assigned in the rcn debian image
Feb 25 13:14:56 <_ssl> ist there a way to disable it?
Feb 25 13:34:08 <camj> hey
Feb 25 13:34:17 <camj> anyone have a "beaglebone enhanced" that I can buy off them?
Feb 25 13:34:38 <camj> from sancloud
Feb 25 13:59:23 <cybernaut> hadn't heard of it even
Feb 25 19:02:57 <_ssl> someone able to help me with jessie -> stretch upgrade/install?
Feb 25 20:42:15 <_ssl> is it possible somehow to "save" the current debian installation in the onboard disk to the sd-card to be able to revert to the current "snapshot" of the system with the flasher in case I mess up something?
Feb 25 21:13:56 <_ssl> something with "dd" I guess?
Feb 25 21:58:20 <_ssl> anyone?
Feb 25 21:59:59 <beagleslackbot> <jtrip> yes dd can help you with that
Feb 25 22:14:21 <beagleslackbot> <jtrip> I know some people have also used rsync for that kind of thing, I like rsync but it seems messy for something like this
Feb 25 22:14:21 <KotH> dd, the most abused tool in the unix world
Feb 25 22:28:40 <_ssl> jtrip KotH so how would I do it then?
Feb 25 22:29:22 <beagleslackbot> <jtrip> you need to read about it and understand, it is too dangerous to be copy-pasting.
Feb 25 22:29:29 <_ssl> would I have to boot from sd card or can I try to copy the running system?
Feb 25 22:30:17 <beagleslackbot> <jtrip> I believe you will have to boot from another device to accomplish what you want
Feb 25 22:30:18 <_ssl> ok, I want to learn about it. what are some keywords I could google?
Feb 25 22:30:43 <beagleslackbot> <jtrip> "man dd"
Feb 25 22:30:45 <_ssl> ie. how is the image created in the first place?
Feb 25 22:31:31 <beagleslackbot> <jtrip> or "backup images with dd" ... I believe there is an informative page on the ArchWiki
Feb 25 22:32:31 <_ssl> ok thank you
Feb 25 23:07:01 <x86iac> i've been trying to find a comparison on boot up time of openbsd vs linux ... does someone have a link? google tells me just to install linux and be done with it ;)
Feb 25 23:26:55 <fouric> zmatt: would you happen to have a good resource that i can use to learn about the different types of threaded (direct, indirect, subroutine, token, and whatever else there might be) code?
Feb 25 23:27:01 <fouric> the wikipedia article is a bit...unclear
Feb 25 23:27:10 <fouric> and it's super hard to search for online
Feb 25 23:36:03 <zmatt> fouric: yeah hold on
Feb 25 23:36:10 <zmatt> if I can find it again...
Feb 25 23:37:27 <zmatt> http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving1.htm
Feb 25 23:40:21 <zmatt> http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/index.html is what I should have linked to :)   it contains links to the various parts of his Moving Forth articles
Feb 25 23:43:30 <zmatt> the major difference between direct/indirect threaded forths vs subroutine threaded forths is that in the former the forth code isn't native executable code, it's an array of pointers
Feb 25 23:43:45 <zmatt> while subroutine threaded code is simply native code like any other compiler would produce
Feb 26 00:19:03 <fouric> ah, thanks!
Feb 26 00:19:21 * fouric was getting his bbb set up to try network boot
Feb 26 00:20:08 <fouric> for the dnsmasq.conf configuration, is this config assuming that the bbb is directly connected to the dev machine using ethernet, or just *somewhere* on the network?
Feb 26 00:36:36 <fouric> zmatt: dnsmasq won't start
Feb 26 00:36:38 <fouric> "failed to bind DHCP server socket: Address already in use"
Feb 26 00:36:41 <fouric> -_-
Feb 26 00:36:53 <fouric> you said that your config file was providing both tftp and bootp, right?
Feb 26 00:37:09 <fouric> the tftp port is free, but the bootp port is being used by dhclient
Feb 26 00:37:21 <fouric> killing it also kills my internet, and it just restarts itself
Feb 26 00:37:40 <fouric> how can i segregate the tftp and bootp functions? do i need both of them?
Feb 26 00:39:26 <fouric> (the only guide i can find online for just doing tftp uses u-boot, which requires user interaction with a keyboard on boot?)
Feb 26 01:32:06 <zmatt> fouric: uhh what, dhclient occupies the dhcp *server* port ?>
Feb 26 01:32:15 <zmatt> that's not normal
Feb 26 01:32:24 <zmatt> you need both of them
Feb 26 01:33:08 <zmatt> using u-boot you could avoid it by manually configuring an ip I guess, but this is not exactly convenient, and it requires u-boot
Feb 26 01:33:33 <fouric> right
Feb 26 01:33:37 <fouric> which is what i'm trying to avoid
Feb 26 01:33:51 <fouric> zmatt: what is your setup for the dnsmasq.conf file that you provided?
Feb 26 01:34:35 <fouric> i'm using network-manager
Feb 26 01:34:38 <fouric> which is apparently bad
Feb 26 01:35:01 <fouric> but nobody on my irc networks are telling me *how* it's bad, or what i can replace it with
Feb 26 01:35:31 <fouric> i assume that you're using something else, which is why you're not getting a port bind conflict when you run dnsmasq?
Feb 26 01:35:53 <zmatt> I'm not getting a conflict because I'm not running any other dhcp/bootp server on my machine
Feb 26 01:37:12 <zmatt> bootp/dhcp server and bootp/dhcp client use different ports
Feb 26 01:38:48 <fouric> => i can run a dhcp server and client on the same machine, right?
Feb 26 01:38:57 <zmatt> yes
Feb 26 01:39:01 <fouric> ...but i *shouldn't* be running a dhcp server...
Feb 26 01:39:03 <fouric> udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:67              0.0.0.0:*                           7598/dnsmasq
Feb 26 01:39:05 <fouric> udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:68              0.0.0.0:*                           31853/dhclient
Feb 26 01:39:29 <fouric> wp says 67 is bootp server and 68 is bootp client
Feb 26 01:39:34 <zmatt> that looks correct
Feb 26 01:39:46 <fouric> ...and *also* used by dhcp?
Feb 26 01:39:48 <fouric> that sounds weird
Feb 26 01:39:55 <zmatt> dhcp is bootp
Feb 26 01:40:01 <zmatt> with specific parameters
Feb 26 01:40:07 <fouric> wat
Feb 26 01:40:31 <zmatt> dhcp is an extended version of bootp
Feb 26 01:40:44 <fouric> so the thing that gives out ip addresses
Feb 26 01:40:55 <fouric> is an extension of a thing that allows you to boot over a network
Feb 26 01:41:04 <zmatt> it hands out an ip address
Feb 26 01:41:35 <zmatt> bootp/dhcp hands out other info also
Feb 26 01:42:01 <zmatt> in this particular case it also hands out a tftp server address to use and a boot file to load from there
Feb 26 01:42:11 <zmatt> note that it also needs an ip address for that purpose :)
Feb 26 01:42:58 <fouric> ah
Feb 26 01:43:04 <zmatt> my dnsmasq config makes sure to *only* reply to a specific beaglebone
Feb 26 01:43:51 <zmatt> the dhcp server on your network will reply too, but bootrom will ignore that since your dhcp server won't offer any tftp server + boot file
Feb 26 01:44:07 <fouric> ...is that what the dhcp-host parameter is for?
Feb 26 01:44:12 <zmatt> yes
Feb 26 01:44:37 <fouric> ...so the parameter with "host" in the name specifies the *client* that will be receiving an address or being responded to?
Feb 26 01:45:28 <zmatt> yes, being the beaglebone
Feb 26 01:45:47 <zmatt> you need to fill in its mac address there, and the IP address you want to give it (and the hostname though I'm not sure that matters)
Feb 26 01:45:53 <fouric> i did both of those
Feb 26 01:46:16 <fouric> filled in the tftp root
Feb 26 01:46:18 <fouric> and the image name
Feb 26 01:46:38 <fouric> so the config file itself should be good to go, i just need to get my system to allow me to use it
Feb 26 01:47:06 <zmatt> but, that line you pasted:   02:39 < fouric> udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:67              0.0.0.0:*   7598/dnsmasq
Feb 26 01:47:32 <fouric> apparently, there's a different instance of dnsmasq running on my machine somehow
Feb 26 01:47:55 <fouric> ...but if i kill it, it restarts itself
Feb 26 01:48:10 <fouric> i suspect that network-manager is behind this
Feb 26 01:48:17 <fouric> ...and that's why i asked what your setup was
Feb 26 01:48:35 <fouric> ...because i need something else that i can use to connect to the internet aside from network-manager
Feb 26 01:48:54 <fouric> ...so i can get rid of it and run my own instance of dnsmasq
Feb 26 01:48:56 <zmatt> why are you running dnsmasq?
Feb 26 01:48:57 <zmatt> heh
Feb 26 01:49:03 <zmatt> how are you connected to the internet?
Feb 26 01:49:24 <fouric> wireless network, configuration through nm-applet (which is a graphical frontend to network-manager)
Feb 26 01:49:40 <fouric> my bbb is directly connected to my dev machine using an ethernet cable
Feb 26 01:49:41 <zmatt> that normally shouldn't start dnsmasq
Feb 26 01:50:08 <zmatt> ohh, what package did you install, dnsmasq or dnsmasq-base ?
Feb 26 01:50:08 <fouric> ...oh
Feb 26 01:50:13 <fouric> wait...
Feb 26 01:50:23 <fouric> (i didn't install either of those, at least not explicitly)
Feb 26 01:50:32 <fouric> ok!
Feb 26 01:50:35 <fouric> got a different error this time
Feb 26 01:50:43 <zmatt> systemctl stop dnsmasq   ?
Feb 26 01:50:44 <fouric> dnsmasq: TFTP directory /srv/tftp inaccessible: No such file or directory
Feb 26 01:50:51 <fouric> zmatt: so here's the thing
Feb 26 01:51:01 <fouric> i was using network-manager to provide a bridge connection from my bbb to the internet
Feb 26 01:51:08 <zmatt> that uses dnsmasq :)
Feb 26 01:51:10 <fouric> ...that was apparently starting a different instance of dnsmasq
Feb 26 01:51:12 <fouric> yup
Feb 26 01:51:16 <fouric> i killed it, and got it to work
Feb 26 01:51:18 <zmatt> you can configure dnsmasq to provide both services
Feb 26 01:51:31 <zmatt> it would avoid the need to hardcode addresses even
Feb 26 01:51:49 <fouric> ooh, that sounds useful!
Feb 26 01:52:03 <fouric> i tried looking for another dnsmasq.conf file in my hard drive a few minutes ago
Feb 26 01:52:05 <fouric> couldn't find one
Feb 26 01:52:10 <fouric> is it named something else?
Feb 26 01:52:30 <zmatt> it might be dynamically generated or something
Feb 26 01:52:34 <zmatt> by nm
Feb 26 01:52:49 <fouric> .-.
Feb 26 01:52:54 <fouric> i really should get rid of it, then
Feb 26 01:53:05 <zmatt> wait actually
Feb 26 01:53:10 <zmatt> a bridge connection doesn't use dnsmasq
Feb 26 01:53:25 <zmatt> internet sharing does, or whatever nm might call it
Feb 26 01:53:30 <fouric> hm...do you know why tftp is trying to access /sr/tftp instead of the directory that i gave it with tftp-root?
Feb 26 01:53:43 <fouric> it was internet sharing, then
Feb 26 01:53:57 <fouric> a bridge connection sounds like a well-defined thing that i don't know the meaning of
Feb 26 01:54:16 <zmatt> a bridge ties LANs together
Feb 26 01:54:23 <fouric> ah
Feb 26 01:54:28 <fouric> yup, definitely internet sharing
Feb 26 01:54:30 <zmatt> so your bbb's dhcp request goes to the dhcp server on your wireless
Feb 26 01:54:40 <zmatt> other wireless clients can ping your bbb
Feb 26 01:54:41 <zmatt> that's bridging
Feb 26 01:54:59 <zmatt> and no at tftp-root
Feb 26 01:56:18 <zmatt> making an "internet sharing" dnsmasq config also usable for netbooting a bbb requires just the tftp options, the dhcp-vendorclass line, and the dhcp-boot line
Feb 26 01:56:42 <zmatt> and the --bootp-dynamic flag to make dnsmasq allocate ips for bootp from your dhcp pool
Feb 26 01:56:49 * fouric made the directory, things "worked"
Feb 26 01:57:10 <zmatt> you can also just stop the internet sharing for now
Feb 26 01:57:18 <fouric> that's what i did
Feb 26 01:57:40 <fouric> i mean, i'm doing baremetal dev, so for the time being i don't have much of a reason to connect to the outside world
Feb 26 01:57:48 <fouric> ...not to mention that it would be *very* difficult to do so
Feb 26 01:57:52 <fouric> bitbang ethernet anyone?
Feb 26 01:58:06 <zmatt> ethernet is quite easy to get working
Feb 26 01:58:11 <fouric> oh i'm an idiot
Feb 26 01:58:21 <fouric> i called dnsmasq with someone else's config file
Feb 26 01:58:26 <fouric> ...which was missing tftp-root
Feb 26 01:58:43 <fouric> zmatt: wait, really?
Feb 26 01:58:50 <zmatt> of course
Feb 26 01:58:53 <zmatt> ROM netboots :P
Feb 26 01:59:01 <fouric> er
Feb 26 01:59:04 <zmatt> (and does usb boot, and all those other boots, and fits in 48 KB)
Feb 26 01:59:12 <fouric> oh!
Feb 26 01:59:21 <fouric> well, you can fit a lot of instructions in 48kb
Feb 26 01:59:25 <zmatt> true
Feb 26 01:59:36 <zmatt> but ethernet really isn't that hard to get to work
Feb 26 01:59:49 * fouric will have to try it someday
Feb 26 02:00:31 <fouric> zmatt: what output do you get while running dnsmasq?
Feb 26 02:00:33 <fouric> dnsmasq-dhcp: DHCP packet received on enp0s25 which has no address
Feb 26 02:00:37 <fouric> ^ this look about right?
Feb 26 02:00:55 <zmatt> ah, no
Feb 26 02:01:02 <fouric> :/
Feb 26 02:01:13 <zmatt> your computer needs a static ip on the ethernet
Feb 26 02:01:20 <zmatt> otherwise it can't act as server on it
Feb 26 02:02:17 <fouric> by "the ethernet" do you mean the ethernet connection between the bbb and my dev machine?
Feb 26 02:02:27 <fouric> do i need to add another dhcp-host line to that config file?
Feb 26 02:02:49 <zmatt> no, it needs a static ip
Feb 26 02:03:02 <zmatt> e.g. in network manager
Feb 26 02:03:11 <fouric> k
Feb 26 02:03:42 <fouric> zmatt: when you did your baremetal dev, did you connect your bbb up to your router/switch, or directly to your dev machine?
Feb 26 02:04:20 <zmatt> either works, but typically both were on a LAN
Feb 26 02:08:07 <fouric> .
Feb 26 02:08:14 <fouric> dns appears to have failed me
Feb 26 02:08:46 <fouric> i'm still connected to IRC (obviously), but i can't touch anything else
Feb 26 02:09:21 <zmatt> hehe, probably nm borked your /etc/resolv.conf and/or default route
Feb 26 02:09:51 <fouric> ughhhhhh
Feb 26 02:11:11 <fouric> you're right
Feb 26 02:11:16 <fouric> it was 127.0.1.1 or something
Feb 26 02:11:20 * fouric changed it to 8.8.8.8
Feb 26 02:14:11 <fouric> ughhhhh
Feb 26 02:14:14 <fouric> let's try this again
Feb 26 02:14:39 <fouric> zmatt: you say that my machine needs a static ip on my wireless network, even though my bbb is directly connected to my dev machine via ethernet cable?
Feb 26 02:15:50 <zmatt> no
Feb 26 02:15:56 <zmatt> static on your ethernet
Feb 26 02:16:12 <fouric> my b, i misread you
Feb 26 02:16:14 <zmatt> since it needs to act as bootp/tftp server towards the bbb
Feb 26 02:16:20 <fouric> right, that would make sense...
Feb 26 02:16:24 <zmatt> it can't do that if it has no ip
Feb 26 02:16:27 <fouric> right
Feb 26 02:16:36 <fouric> but (1) i'm not having network-manager do anything
Feb 26 02:17:02 <fouric> and (2) you said that i didn't need to add a dhcp-host line to dnsmasq.conf...
Feb 26 02:17:05 <fouric> ...what do i need to do?
Feb 26 02:17:44 <zmatt> the dhcp-host line describes the bbb
Feb 26 02:17:46 <fouric> .oO(why is there an interrupt number listed under the ethernet section of ifconfig)
Feb 26 02:17:59 <zmatt> ifconfig is old btw
Feb 26 02:18:08 <fouric> ah
Feb 26 02:18:21 <zmatt> if you want to configure that enp0s25 interface manually
Feb 26 02:18:26 <zmatt> then e.g.
Feb 26 02:19:04 <zmatt> ip link set enp0s25 up
Feb 26 02:19:35 <zmatt> ip address add 192.168.1.1/24 dev enp0s25
Feb 26 02:19:57 <zmatt> but this might not survive for very long
Feb 26 02:20:12 <fouric> ...where 192.168.1.1 is...the ip of my dev box, seen by the bbb?
Feb 26 02:20:16 <zmatt> yes
Feb 26 02:20:25 <fouric> aight, let's give it a shot
Feb 26 02:20:30 * fouric opens another tmux pane
Feb 26 02:20:33 <zmatt> if your wireless uses that IP network, use a different one here
Feb 26 02:20:44 <fouric> "connection established"
Feb 26 02:20:53 <fouric> "might not survive for very long"
Feb 26 02:21:05 <fouric> if i need to i'll write a cron job that runs it every 5 minutes dangit
Feb 26 02:21:09 <zmatt> lol
Feb 26 02:21:10 <fouric> (if it works, that is)
Feb 26 02:21:27 <fouric> dnsmasq-dhcp: no address range available for DHCP request via enp0s25
Feb 26 02:21:28 <fouric> :/
Feb 26 02:21:45 <fouric> ...does it need to be inside dhcp-range?
Feb 26 02:22:07 <zmatt> yes, I actually say that explicitly in the comments
Feb 26 02:22:53 <fouric> "if you have a local dhcp server"
Feb 26 02:22:55 <fouric> O.o
Feb 26 02:22:59 <fouric> dnsmasq-tftp: sent /home/fouric/code/bbb/tftp/demo.bin to 10.42.0.100
Feb 26 02:23:06 <fouric> you're a hero
Feb 26 02:23:19 <fouric> i gotta write all this stuff down
Feb 26 02:23:33 <zmatt> by that I mean "if you have an existing dhcp server on the lan that connects you to your bbb"
Feb 26 02:24:08 <fouric> ah, where "local" is "on the network" not "on the machine"
Feb 26 02:24:17 <zmatt> yeah
Feb 26 02:25:02 <zmatt> I'm still annoyed that dnsmasq for some reason refuses to do proxying for this
Feb 26 02:25:55 <zmatt> that means it would see bootrom's request, perform a dhcp/bootp request on its behalf to get an ip address for it, augment the reply with tftp server ip and boot file path, and sends that back to the bbb
Feb 26 02:27:11 <zmatt> that would avoid the need for manual IP assignment and dhcp-host lines
Feb 26 02:27:15 <zmatt> but oh well
Feb 26 02:27:42 * fouric just wants to get code on his board
Feb 26 02:27:52 <fouric> ...aaaaaaaaaaaaand it's not loading anymore
Feb 26 02:27:54 <fouric> wtf
Feb 26 02:28:31 <fouric> it just randomly decided to load the code
Feb 26 02:28:34 <fouric> and then didn't
Feb 26 02:28:39 <zmatt> ?
Feb 26 02:28:45 <zmatt> wait, that ip...
Feb 26 02:28:54 <fouric> those two "ip" commands you so kindly suggested
Feb 26 02:28:56 <fouric> i ran them
Feb 26 02:29:11 <zmatt> I didn't suggest 10.42.0.100
Feb 26 02:29:12 <fouric> nothing happened the first time
Feb 26 02:29:23 <fouric> so i changed the ip to 10.42.0.1
Feb 26 02:29:26 <fouric> then it loaded
Feb 26 02:29:31 <fouric> ...and now it's not .-.
Feb 26 02:29:41 <zmatt> did you just reset it?
Feb 26 02:29:48 <fouric> (10.42.0.xxx is the address that the network connection sharing stuff was using)
Feb 26 02:29:53 <fouric> i didn't when it worked
Feb 26 02:29:59 <fouric> ...but right now, i just did, and nothing happened
Feb 26 02:30:00 <zmatt> no I know
Feb 26 02:30:02 <zmatt> yes
Feb 26 02:30:09 <zmatt> your computer lost its ip config :)
Feb 26 02:30:13 <zmatt> most likely
Feb 26 02:30:13 <fouric>  ~/code/bbb >>> cat /var/lib/misc/dnsmasq.leases
Feb 26 02:30:15 <fouric> 0 04:a3:16:b5:b1:bd 10.42.0.100 beaglebone *
Feb 26 02:30:17 <fouric> :/
Feb 26 02:30:35 <fouric> i ran the pair of lines agai
Feb 26 02:30:59 <zmatt> really, just config it in nm
Feb 26 02:31:04 <zmatt> otherwise it'll keep getting overwritten
Feb 26 02:31:41 <zmatt> whenever you press reset, the link goes down and up again, and then nm wakes up again and tries to meddle with the interface
Feb 26 02:32:11 <fouric> i mean, i'm re-configuring it, and nothing is happening
Feb 26 02:32:25 <zmatt> reconfiguring what?
Feb 26 02:32:30 <zmatt> happening where?
Feb 26 02:32:36 <fouric> sorry, should have clarified
Feb 26 02:32:39 <fouric> those two "ip" lines
Feb 26 02:32:44 <fouric> link set and address add
Feb 26 02:33:06 <fouric> i ran those again, because the load that worked happened right after i did
Feb 26 02:33:09 <zmatt> 1. configure ethernet manually with an ip that's on a different IP range than your wifi
Feb 26 02:33:14 <zmatt> (in nm)
Feb 26 02:37:05 <fouric> for 10.42.0.1 static ip, what gateway would i even use?
Feb 26 02:37:12 <fouric> ...would that be the ip of the bbb?
Feb 26 02:37:24 <zmatt> no gateway
Feb 26 02:37:38 <zmatt> any ip that's not your computer's
Feb 26 02:38:01 <fouric> k
Feb 26 02:39:16 <fouric> ughhhhhhh network-manager applet is greying-out the option for the configuration that i just created
Feb 26 02:39:19 * fouric will reboot
Feb 26 02:40:48 <zmatt> rebooting is generally a bad choice in such cases
Feb 26 02:43:18 <fouric> yup
Feb 26 02:43:31 <fouric> "device not managed" from network-manager applet for ethernet
Feb 26 02:44:00 <fouric> mistakes were made, regrets were had
Feb 26 02:46:07 <fouric> dnsmasq: failed to create listening socket for port 69: Address already in use
Feb 26 02:46:12 <fouric> udp        0      0 10.42.0.1:69            0.0.0.0:*                           1257/in.tftpd
Feb 26 02:46:24 <fouric> i have no idea why tftpd is already running
Feb 26 02:46:41 * fouric kills
Feb 26 02:46:57 <zmatt> what on earth do you have installed and running? o.O
Feb 26 02:49:24 <fouric> i just have the stock ubuntu install!
Feb 26 02:49:45 <fouric> ...i did modify /etc/network/interfaces, though
Feb 26 02:49:56 <fouric> allow-hotplug enp0s25
Feb 26 02:49:58 <fouric> iface enp0s25 inet static
Feb 26 02:50:00 <fouric>         address 10.42.0.1
Feb 26 02:50:02 <fouric>         netmask 255.255.0.0
Feb 26 02:52:55 <fouric> ugh, i removed those lines, then stopped and restarted nm-applet and it still claims "device not managed"
Feb 26 02:53:00 <fouric> how is this even possible
Feb 26 02:55:20 <fouric> zmatt: by the way, http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving1.htm looks to be *exactly* the thing that i needed, thanks! :D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 26 03:00:01 2017