**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 04 02:59:59 2018 Aug 04 04:14:49 e Aug 04 20:40:10 I'm looking for a cheap single-board computer to move my IRC bouncer to Aug 04 20:40:41 how much nonfree software or firmware is needed to run a Beagle computer? Aug 04 20:40:50 none Aug 04 20:41:45 well, the ROM bootloader baked into the SoC technically counts Aug 04 20:41:49 the FSF claims the GPU requires nonfree blobs Aug 04 20:42:15 I don't expect to need to use the GPU, but I'm interested specifically in the software needed to boot it Aug 04 20:42:48 I just learned that Raspberry Pis need nonfree firmware for the GPU before the main processor even boots Aug 04 20:42:53 the GPU requires closed-source blobs and userspace libs, but they're not included in the default image Aug 04 20:42:59 rpi is a very different story Aug 04 20:43:04 its "gpu" is actually the main cpu Aug 04 20:43:13 the arm core is an auxiliary core on the rpi Aug 04 20:44:39 the am335x gpu is just for 3d graphics and purely optional Aug 04 20:46:03 on Beagle computers? Aug 04 20:46:26 yes, none required. GPU support is optional Aug 04 20:46:38 the am3358 is the SoC on the beaglebone specifically (but the situation is similar on beagleboards) Aug 04 20:47:10 that's good Aug 04 20:47:56 a lot of similar computers that seem to require less nonfree software than the RPi are also much more expensive Aug 04 20:48:08 but not the Beagle boards, it seems Aug 04 20:48:10 why is that? Aug 04 20:48:28 I don't think that's a factor in the pricing of products Aug 04 20:48:48 I would hope it isn't Aug 04 20:48:48 wish I could de-spec the GPU to get the FSF to endorse. Aug 04 20:48:54 but TI has always been very open, its products are well documented Aug 04 20:49:12 TI? Aug 04 20:49:16 Texas Instruments Aug 04 20:49:23 oh, I didn't know that Aug 04 20:49:27 they make the processors. Aug 04 20:49:36 like, if you go to the product page of the SoC, you can simply download the 5000-page technical reference manual for the processor Aug 04 20:49:37 ah Aug 04 20:49:55 in constrast, if you go to broadcom's website, you can't even find *any* product page for the SoC on the rpi Aug 04 20:50:02 let alone documentation Aug 04 20:50:30 yeah, I understand they intentionally keep it secret Aug 04 20:50:41 wouldn't want users tampering with their own products Aug 04 20:51:07 I'm not going to speculate on their motivations Aug 04 20:51:21 I honestly don't really know Aug 04 20:51:39 what's the ROM bootloader you mentioned? Aug 04 20:52:02 competition Aug 04 20:52:04 that's the software on the processor itself? Aug 04 20:52:21 it's typical for a SoC to begin execution from code that's integrated into the chip itself Aug 04 20:52:52 (I learned the term "SoC" today, so bear with me) Aug 04 20:52:53 which is responsible for very early initialization of the SoC and then loading and executing the next bootloader stage (which is u-boot in this case) Aug 04 20:53:28 and that's stored on some other storage device? Aug 04 20:53:44 yeah it can load it from eMMC or uSD Aug 04 20:53:50 and a bunch of other options Aug 04 20:55:34 oh, okay Aug 04 20:57:31 so typical boot would be: rom does early initialization (e.g. setup the PLLs) and loads the u-boot "SPL" (Secondary Program Loader) into internal RAM, which initializes the ddr3 controller and loads the full u-boot into ddr3 memory, which then loads the linux kernel (+ device tree + optional initramfs) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 05 02:59:59 2018