**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 08 02:59:56 2019
May 08 03:08:53 <set_> cygwin was what I was thinking of earlier, zmatt. I think the kernel built into Win. will be better. Who knows?
May 08 03:09:07 <zmatt> set_: WSL is way better than cygwin
May 08 03:09:27 <zmatt> WSL made cygwin obsolete
May 08 03:09:49 <set_> Oh.
May 08 03:09:56 <set_> I always used cygwin.
May 08 03:10:04 <zmatt> cygwin was great
May 08 03:10:08 <set_> I do have older books.
May 08 03:10:21 <set_> Upgrade time...cough.
May 08 03:16:09 <mawk> how does cygwin compare to msys ?
May 08 03:16:21 <mawk> I'd love to try wsl but my pirate copy of windows had the windows store removed
May 08 03:16:42 <zmatt> I've preferred msys2 over cygwin last time I needed it
May 08 03:17:02 <mawk> msys is a bit confusing at first, with the 3 different versions with different environment
May 08 03:17:03 <zmatt> (which was quite a while ago)
May 08 03:17:11 <mawk> mingw32, mingw64, msys
May 08 03:17:13 <mawk> or something
May 08 03:17:31 <zmatt> I don't recall much details myself either
May 08 03:17:37 <set_> Me neither.
May 08 03:17:43 <zmatt> including why I chose msys2 over cygwin
May 08 03:17:48 <zmatt> I've used cygwin too in the past
May 08 03:17:58 <set_> cygwin only has so many options for linux commands.
May 08 03:18:13 <mawk> will docker finally start using WSL instead of virtualbox/hyperv on windows ?
May 08 03:18:16 <mawk> that'd be a cool thing
May 08 03:18:20 <set_> The full set of linux cmds are not available.
May 08 03:18:26 <mawk> especially with the upcoming linux kernel integration in windows
May 08 03:18:39 <mawk> you can build the remaining ones set_ it's not a problem
May 08 03:18:39 <zmatt> the current WSL has nothing to do with virtualization
May 08 03:18:42 <mawk> also there are tons of packages
May 08 03:18:51 <set_> Tons!
May 08 03:18:54 <mawk> yeah zmatt but neither does docker
May 08 03:19:06 <mawk> so maybe it will work
May 08 03:19:16 <mawk> on linux it's just using some kernel interface
May 08 03:19:30 <mawk> on windows it's virtualizing linux then using that same interface; now with wsl is could use the interface directly maybe
May 08 03:19:31 <zmatt> I don't know whether WSL implements any of the namespace-calls at all
May 08 03:19:48 <mawk> well there have been news lately of a full linux kernel integration for wsl
May 08 03:20:02 <zmatt> yeah wsl2 sounds like they've given up on wsl
May 08 03:20:03 <set_> end of June!
May 08 03:20:09 <zmatt> which is disappointing
May 08 03:20:25 <mawk> it'll still be a wonderful uncharted territory to make malware
May 08 03:20:29 <set_> I always say, "Sometimes it is better to move on than not to move at all."
May 08 03:20:37 <zmatt> I feel like running a linux kernel in a vm is not a substitute for wsl
May 08 03:20:37 <mawk> AV software don't detect these wsl processes
May 08 03:20:46 <mawk> ah they'll run it in a vm ?
May 08 03:20:51 <mawk> that's disappointing indeed
May 08 03:20:59 <zmatt> it's a linux kernel, how else would you imagine it would run?
May 08 03:21:06 <zmatt> and yeah it uses hyper-v
May 08 03:21:06 <mawk> I thought they'd run it alongside windows or under windows
May 08 03:21:20 <mawk> well for instance there's usermode linux that runs linux under linux
May 08 03:21:28 <mawk> so it's not impossible
May 08 03:21:35 <zmatt> yes but that would be terrible for performance I'd imagine
May 08 03:21:59 <zmatt> it would have all the downsides of using a vm but with poorer performance
May 08 03:22:18 <mawk> right
May 08 03:22:58 <set_> I think that linux is an easier-to-use interface. The emulator works easier for keyboard strokes.
May 08 03:23:14 <mawk> what do you mean by linux ?
May 08 03:23:23 <set_> That damn backward slash beats me.
May 08 03:23:25 <set_> Oh.
May 08 03:23:25 <mawk> in which context
May 08 03:23:33 <set_> Linux on the cmd line.
May 08 03:24:14 <mawk> ah, yeah totally
May 08 03:24:27 <mawk> but in counterpart windows' gui is very powerful
May 08 03:24:34 <mawk> also now it has nice command line with powershell
May 08 03:24:40 <set_> Yep. I cannot wait. I just wonder what will become of this idea once they get "ahold" of it.
May 08 03:24:59 <mawk> a seamless standard linux experience probably
May 08 03:25:33 <zmatt> I mean, that seems harder to achieve with their new wsl2 idea than with wsl1, but we'll see
May 08 03:26:01 <zmatt> it'll be better for linux compatibility obviously, but integration becomes much harder
May 08 03:26:21 <set_> I just want one emulator terminal.
May 08 03:26:36 <mawk> you can already use wsl set_ it's a nice terminal emulator
May 08 03:26:45 <set_> I do not want to have to learn 300 commands for three different machines.
May 08 03:26:46 <set_> Oh?
May 08 03:26:51 <mawk> yeah
May 08 03:26:56 <mawk> install Debian from windows store
May 08 03:27:04 <set_> I was wondering what you were saying earlier, zmatt.
May 08 03:27:10 <set_> From the store?
May 08 03:27:11 <mawk> also activate WSL in the optional windows features in the "install/remove programs" screen in control panel*
May 08 03:27:13 <mawk> yes
May 08 03:27:13 <set_> Odd days.
May 08 03:27:27 <set_> But...I have to compile it right?
May 08 03:27:30 <mawk> no
May 08 03:27:36 <set_> Cough. I was unaware.
May 08 03:27:37 <mawk> just search for debian, hit install, that's it
May 08 03:27:46 <mawk> as simple as possible
May 08 03:27:50 <mawk> or ubuntu if you like
May 08 03:27:50 <set_> Odd days. I am way behind the times, then.
May 08 03:27:57 <mawk> you need windows 10
May 08 03:28:01 <set_> Right.
May 08 03:28:03 <mawk> relatively up to date
May 08 03:28:12 <set_> I upgraded when they were testing it.
May 08 03:28:18 <mawk> then you get a nice bash shell
May 08 03:28:23 <mawk> with the C: drive in /mnt/c
May 08 03:28:26 <set_> Hmm.
May 08 03:28:29 <mawk> you can sudo and stuff
May 08 03:28:31 <set_> Aw!
May 08 03:28:34 <set_> Nice.
May 08 03:29:08 <set_> I forget what I was reading but I thought what was available now had to be compiled by the user.
May 08 03:29:30 <set_> Oh well.
May 08 03:29:34 <mawk> no, works out of the box
May 08 03:29:47 <set_> mawk: How long have you known about this idea?
May 08 03:29:59 <zmatt> WSL has been around for quite a while already
May 08 03:30:03 <set_> three years or more?
May 08 03:30:10 <mawk> I don't remember, since the beggining
May 08 03:30:13 <set_> Okay.
May 08 03:30:13 <mawk> it was big news at the time
May 08 03:30:20 <mawk> windows getting linuxish
May 08 03:30:28 <set_> I must have been buried in sand.
May 08 03:30:28 <mawk> joining the linux foundation as platinum member or whatever
May 08 03:30:34 <set_> Hmm.
May 08 03:30:35 <set_> Okay.
May 08 03:30:57 <set_> I remember only that the co. took over github.com w/ a nice sell.
May 08 03:31:30 <set_> Off to look up the Win. Store.
May 08 03:33:28 <set_> Oh. It was about this time last year, i.e. around the spring.
May 08 03:33:33 <zmatt> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/announcing-wsl-2/  seems to have some more info about wsl2
May 08 03:33:40 <set_> Aw.
May 08 03:33:41 <set_> Thank you.
May 08 03:34:01 <zmatt> not much more actually
May 08 03:34:18 <zmatt> overall it still leaves me very underwhelmed
May 08 03:36:20 <set_> I just wonder. If I missed this idea, what else have I missed. I feel like a Mormon that leaves the colony.
May 08 03:36:42 <zmatt> set_: I can definitely recommend WSL today
May 08 03:37:20 <set_> It does not work on my end. Oh well. Better fields one day.
May 08 03:37:31 <zmatt> hmm?
May 08 03:37:50 <set_> It says press any key to continue. I did four times. Nothing.
May 08 03:38:10 <set_> It keeps quitting on me and the prompt removes itself w/out commands.
May 08 03:38:15 <set_> Oh well.
May 08 03:38:31 <zmatt> do you have any computer systems that doesn't exhibit bizarre and mysterious failures?
May 08 03:38:52 <set_> The Windows Subsystem for Linux optional component is not enabled. Please enable it and try again. <--- This is the issue.
May 08 03:39:14 <set_> I know, I know. My days are numbered over here w/ 'puters.
May 08 03:39:20 <zmatt> so enable it
May 08 03:39:27 <set_> Otay!
May 08 03:39:42 <zmatt> https://developerinsider.co/stepwise-guide-to-enable-windows-10-subsystem-for-linux/
May 08 03:40:03 <zmatt> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/how-to-enable-the-windows-subsystem-for-linux/16e8f2e8-4a6a-4325-a89a-fd28c7841775
May 08 03:40:05 <set_> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
May 08 03:40:09 <set_> This is what I found.
May 08 03:40:32 <set_> If it is not something, it is something. Sheesh.
May 08 03:44:28 <set_> Oh well. I tried. Things!
May 08 04:01:21 <set_> Otay. Got it.
May 08 04:01:37 <set_> reboot!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 09 02:59:56 2019