**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 08 02:59:57 2019
Jun 08 05:04:15 <JAI> HELLO
Jun 08 05:04:27 <JAI> I NEED SOURCE FILES FOR DEBIAN 9 OS
Jun 08 05:04:54 <JAI> WHERE TO DOWNLOAD SOURCE FILES FOR DEBIAN 9 OS
Jun 08 05:57:16 <zmatt> WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT US
Jun 08 05:58:24 <zmatt> maybe you should replace your baudot teletype by one of them newfangled vt100 terminals, they actually have lowercase letters too
Jun 08 15:09:28 <seger> hello
Jun 08 15:37:07 <artag> wow. so many years since B1FF
Jun 09 00:32:42 <set_> I see some people are using the MachineKit image on the Replicape for ________.
Jun 09 00:33:08 <outrageous_> Random things?
Jun 09 00:33:15 <set_> Anyway, I just contacted this fellow. Hopefully, he might reply one day.
Jun 09 00:33:17 <set_> Sure.
Jun 09 00:33:19 <set_> Sure!
Jun 09 00:33:29 <set_> CNC, I guess.
Jun 09 00:34:11 <set_> or 3D printing.
Jun 09 00:34:16 <set_> I hope CNC.
Jun 09 00:35:04 <set_> outrageous: Are you using the MachineKit image or the Replicape?
Jun 09 00:35:30 <outrageous_> 3d printing is kind of a cnc process
Jun 09 00:35:52 <set_> Yep. G, M, and so on codes.
Jun 09 00:37:05 <set_> I am unfamiliar w/ the whole of it. I mean to say, I think there is something. This something is an unfamiliarity to CNC. Yep.
Jun 09 00:37:06 <set_> ...
Jun 09 00:37:11 <set_> I took a couple classes online for it.
Jun 09 00:37:20 <set_> I really do not get it thus far.
Jun 09 00:38:02 <set_> I mean. Entire projects...no. Single cuts...yes. Angles and ideas relating to how g-code is laid out, sort of.
Jun 09 00:38:20 <outrageous_> I've only done two dimensional CNC
Jun 09 00:38:23 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 00:38:30 <outrageous_> with a plasma cutter
Jun 09 00:38:51 <set_> See. I was thinking w/ the RepliCape, there would be a way groove into the wood/metal at particular points.
Jun 09 00:39:01 <outrageous_> And I only built the machine ...a friend took care of the computer side of it.
Jun 09 00:39:06 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 00:39:08 <set_> Okay.
Jun 09 00:40:03 <set_> Hey outrageous_: Do you have plans on the build?
Jun 09 00:40:11 <outrageous_> It's become more simple now I think.
Jun 09 00:40:29 <outrageous_> Not really, no.  It's a bit of a monster ...2 x 7 meters
Jun 09 00:41:16 <set_> I have seen people sell $4000.00 + machines that were put together w/ 20x20xN extruded aluminum.
Jun 09 00:41:21 <set_> That seems silly.
Jun 09 00:41:33 <set_> 2 x 7 meters. Dang.
Jun 09 00:41:37 <outrageous_> Plenty of photos somewhere, and possibly some of it exists in some Rhino models, but some of ot it was definitely ad-hoc
Jun 09 00:41:47 <set_> Oh. Okay.
Jun 09 00:42:12 <outrageous_> Professional equipment of this sort has become so inexpensive now that I don't think I would bother building one myself today.
Jun 09 00:42:32 <set_> That is cool. I was wondering b/c I wanted to make a build but these damn components are never in one place at one time.
Jun 09 00:42:32 <outrageous_> Not of that size at least.
Jun 09 00:42:36 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 00:43:22 <set_> So, you were flinging plasma cutters for metal and iron?
Jun 09 00:43:37 <set_> That is nice.
Jun 09 00:43:38 <outrageous_> Yes
Jun 09 00:43:45 <outrageous_> It's messy :)
Jun 09 00:43:49 <set_> Ha!
Jun 09 00:44:15 <outrageous_> we built it to cut 2x6m plates for a sailboat
Jun 09 00:44:16 <set_> I used to have a laser cutter. For some reason, the machine went "#$%!."
Jun 09 00:44:20 <set_> oh.
Jun 09 00:44:23 <outrageous_> And that's the only use it ever got
Jun 09 00:44:28 <outrageous_> well
Jun 09 00:44:29 <set_> Dang.
Jun 09 00:44:39 <set_> Did you do it w/ the BBB?
Jun 09 00:44:44 <outrageous_> we actually used it to route the plywood for the interior too
Jun 09 00:44:49 <set_> Oh. Nice.
Jun 09 00:44:51 <outrageous_> No ...this was long before the bbb
Jun 09 00:44:59 <set_> Did the boat sail?
Jun 09 00:45:07 <outrageous_> All done through parallel ports
Jun 09 00:45:17 <outrageous_> It hasn't sailed yet, no.  Still under construction
Jun 09 00:45:26 <outrageous_> 11 years since the steel was cut
Jun 09 00:45:31 <set_> Oh. Yea. Those things take a while.
Jun 09 00:45:35 <outrageous_> But we are working on the interior now.
Jun 09 00:45:50 <set_> Did you get to finishing the outside?
Jun 09 00:45:52 <outrageous_> Yes ...life gets in the way :P
Jun 09 00:45:57 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 00:46:13 <outrageous_> Yes, we finished the outside apart from final painting in 2012 I think.
Jun 09 00:46:20 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 00:46:21 <set_> Okay.
Jun 09 00:46:31 <outrageous_> And from then until 2017 we did not work on it.
Jun 09 00:46:47 <set_> I am about to try to get my first stick welder. Oh about the timing.
Jun 09 00:46:51 <outrageous_> But yes, I think cnc has become a lot simpler now
Jun 09 00:47:10 <outrageous_> back then we used something called Emc2, which later became linuxcnc I think
Jun 09 00:47:30 <set_> Yea. I have come across many cnc ideas w/ extruded aluminum but i need heaviness.
Jun 09 00:47:43 <set_> I say need. I mean want.
Jun 09 00:48:02 <set_> Oh. outrageous_: So you know about machinekit.
Jun 09 00:48:08 <outrageous_> It's not so complicated to build from steel, especially if it doesn't need to be big.
Jun 09 00:48:13 <set_> Or other flavors of linuxcnc.
Jun 09 00:48:26 <outrageous_> I can't say I'm familiar with machinekit
Jun 09 00:48:30 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 00:48:31 <set_> Okay.
Jun 09 00:48:33 <set_> No issue.
Jun 09 00:48:55 <outrageous_> But I am familiar with linuxcnc.  I think we upgraded from Emc2 to linuxcnc last year when we routed out the plywood.
Jun 09 00:49:05 <set_> Now, machinekit is a linuxcnc repo w/ HAL support.
Jun 09 00:49:11 <outrageous_> I see
Jun 09 00:49:23 <outrageous_> there was HAL support already in emc2
Jun 09 00:49:40 <set_> I am new to HAL. I read about it every so often.
Jun 09 00:49:43 <outrageous_> Not very user friendly
Jun 09 00:49:53 <outrageous_> but it was there
Jun 09 00:50:17 <set_> It is supposed to work as a mediator in between layers/something like that.
Jun 09 00:50:55 <set_> I read about it so far on the block diagram and some actual source.
Jun 09 00:51:03 <outrageous_> I only know HAL, I don't really know what it's about.  I wasn't too involved in the computer side back then :P
Jun 09 00:51:14 <set_> No issue.
Jun 09 00:51:40 <outrageous_> I mean....the word HAL ...I imagine it means Hardware Abstraction Layer
Jun 09 00:51:46 <set_> I wonder. Oh Yea.
Jun 09 00:51:57 <set_> HAL. Hardware Abstraction Layer.
Jun 09 00:52:16 <outrageous_> ok,...at least I remembered that :P
Jun 09 00:52:20 <set_> Yea boy!
Jun 09 00:52:33 <set_> So, what got in the way?
Jun 09 00:52:40 <outrageous_> of what?
Jun 09 00:52:49 <set_> Making that boat sail!
Jun 09 00:53:01 <set_> You said, "Life." But, what?
Jun 09 00:53:21 <set_> Like, digging pools out or work or Meteors?
Jun 09 00:53:35 <outrageous_> Recession and the other part of the project moving abroad for work.
Jun 09 00:53:39 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 00:53:51 <set_> That Recession sucked. Boy did it.
Jun 09 00:54:13 <set_> Oil industry parks were like ghost towns.
Jun 09 00:54:17 <outrageous_> They still live about 3000 miles away but we have done about 2-3 weeks per year over the past 3 years.
Jun 09 00:54:26 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 00:54:48 <outrageous_> yes....funny things these booms and bursts.
Jun 09 00:55:19 <set_> For a bit, the oil was up high and then low and down.
Jun 09 00:55:31 <set_> For consumers, yea! For businesses...not good.
Jun 09 00:56:31 <set_> I wonder.
Jun 09 00:57:01 <set_> How much of the local industry is incorporated in electronics. I mean.
Jun 09 00:57:04 <set_> it is everywhere.
Jun 09 00:57:20 <outrageous_> Yes.
Jun 09 00:57:43 <set_> I just do not know if smaller businesses have teams specifically for field work around here.
Jun 09 00:58:04 <outrageous_> Where about is that?
Jun 09 00:58:13 <set_> Putting specific e...Oh. Louisiana.
Jun 09 00:59:43 <set_> I was thinking learning on the BBB was intuitive.
Jun 09 00:59:51 <set_> For, bigger processes.
Jun 09 01:00:33 <set_> i.e. for learning instances. Like a small school or community of learning that could be a bigger than beneficial learning experience.
Jun 09 01:00:40 <set_> ...
Jun 09 01:00:48 <outrageous_> I think it definitely is.
Jun 09 01:01:03 <set_> I just do not know how to incorporate the BBB and other family boards into products.
Jun 09 01:01:11 <outrageous_> But finding problems to solve is always going to be the tricky part.
Jun 09 01:01:12 <set_> I am definitely not a product developer.
Jun 09 01:01:19 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 01:01:42 <set_> Product developer = inventor
Jun 09 01:01:47 <set_> Sort of.
Jun 09 01:01:48 <outrageous_> I come to it from a different angle ....I have problems to solve, but limited knowledge and time.
Jun 09 01:02:17 <outrageous_> But I have been using some of my spare time through the years doing various things with the bbb
Jun 09 01:02:28 <set_> Same here. That is my boat too. The books are there and I can read. It just comes down to how much do I want/need it.
Jun 09 01:02:37 <set_> Oh?
Jun 09 01:02:40 <set_> Like what?
Jun 09 01:03:28 <set_> Building bots.
Jun 09 01:04:01 <set_> Or making weather vanes?
Jun 09 01:04:43 <set_> LCD displaying and reading?
Jun 09 01:04:51 <outrageous_> Not bots no, for about a year I have been using them to interface with equipment that is out in the field...connecting said equipment to the internet
Jun 09 01:05:03 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:05:10 <set_> That is cool. W/ XBee?
Jun 09 01:05:10 <outrageous_> for remote monitoring.
Jun 09 01:05:15 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 01:05:16 <outrageous_> No, modbus
Jun 09 01:05:18 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:05:30 <set_> I am not familiar w/ that modbus stuff.
Jun 09 01:05:36 <outrageous_> the equipment in question has modbus RTU and is getting quite old
Jun 09 01:05:42 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:06:08 <set_> Yea. The people behind the "future" are getting intricate on changing names and labels.
Jun 09 01:06:41 <set_> I mean.
Jun 09 01:06:49 <set_> This is my idea.
Jun 09 01:07:25 <set_> There are electronics and electricity. You can stop it, make it flow another route, and/or let it go, go, go.
Jun 09 01:08:11 <set_> No matter how small, outside of radio waves, hardware has not changed all that much.
Jun 09 01:08:23 <set_> Software on the other hand, has changed labeling.
Jun 09 01:08:37 <outrageous_> haha
Jun 09 01:08:45 <outrageous_> Yes
Jun 09 01:09:33 <outrageous_> But then again, different fields within electricity/electronics use different terms and labels for the same things.
Jun 09 01:09:35 <set_> Right. I mean...you got the older languages that turned into another language. Do not get me wrong. I do not know how people get together to make things.
Jun 09 01:09:44 <outrageous_> And I think it's long been that way.
Jun 09 01:09:51 <set_> I am a loner.
Jun 09 01:10:06 <set_> Yep.
Jun 09 01:10:09 <set_> It has been that way.
Jun 09 01:11:06 <outrageous_> I think today, most of these things are created by people who mostly hang out alone at home and then interact with others through the internet.  Maybe that's a misunderstanding on my part?
Jun 09 01:11:28 <set_> I work alone constantly. Yea. I think that is understood incorrectly.
Jun 09 01:11:45 <set_> I think people find each other or have been close for years.
Jun 09 01:11:54 <set_> Then, w/ that trust...
Jun 09 01:12:01 <set_> They promote what they have created.
Jun 09 01:12:13 <outrageous_> possibly, yes.
Jun 09 01:12:14 <set_> That is the difficult part in my life.
Jun 09 01:12:25 <set_> And...customers. No!
Jun 09 01:12:32 <outrageous_> haha
Jun 09 01:12:42 <outrageous_> Mind me asking how old you are?
Jun 09 01:12:49 <set_> Serious. I cannot stand helping people that want to pay me.
Jun 09 01:13:03 <set_> I am 39 years old if you can believe that.
Jun 09 01:13:45 <outrageous_> I can, yes.
Jun 09 01:13:50 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:13:51 <set_> Okay.
Jun 09 01:13:54 <outrageous_> Similar age here
Jun 09 01:13:57 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:13:59 <set_> Okay.
Jun 09 01:14:09 <outrageous_> 41 later this year.
Jun 09 01:14:20 <set_> outrageous_: How did you come about finding customers?
Jun 09 01:14:21 <outrageous_> I used to struggle with customers
Jun 09 01:14:24 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 01:14:27 <outrageous_> but I don't anymore.
Jun 09 01:14:33 <outrageous_> They just come
Jun 09 01:14:34 <set_> Do you have to consult them at all?
Jun 09 01:14:38 <outrageous_> I've never advertised.
Jun 09 01:14:42 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:15:04 <set_> I have to learn more to advertise.
Jun 09 01:15:13 <outrageous_> But it started from a job that I was doing at another company as an employee....and then I span off, so to speak.
Jun 09 01:15:31 <set_> That makes sense. Cust. for life?
Jun 09 01:16:00 <set_> Instead of sticking w/ companies, some people stick w/ people.
Jun 09 01:16:21 <outrageous_> Well, the company I span off out of was split up soon after and I received a lot of business out of that.
Jun 09 01:16:40 <set_> That was nice. It is also nice that you can incorporate the BBB in it.
Jun 09 01:17:17 <outrageous_> Yes ....well...if you know someone who can solve your problems and doesn't cause you problems, that's the one you go for don't you? :)
Jun 09 01:17:18 <set_> I was thinking. Would making a Cape be beneficial to getting out there at all?
Jun 09 01:17:27 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 01:17:38 <outrageous_> Possibly
Jun 09 01:17:49 <outrageous_> but basically ....anything you can do to learn is good.
Jun 09 01:17:57 <outrageous_> Ideally you don't want it to cost too much
Jun 09 01:18:08 <set_> I was thinking of making a Cape for the BBB but I do not have time to deal w/ customers.
Jun 09 01:18:32 <outrageous_> but as you learn, you will possibly find use cases that you can apply to somethng
Jun 09 01:18:55 <set_> To tell you the truth. I would never want to deal w/ customers.
Jun 09 01:18:56 <set_> ...
Jun 09 01:19:17 <outrageous_> Personally, I don't want to sell what I make any other way than just to apply to equipment that I already work with.  And I don't want it to get into the hands of anyone else really.
Jun 09 01:19:30 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:19:36 <set_> Yea. That makes sense.
Jun 09 01:19:52 <outrageous_> Because the BBB devices are not really worth much
Jun 09 01:20:06 <outrageous_> My ideas and the implementations are what are worth something.
Jun 09 01:20:32 <set_> But if you learned on the BBB, using might just be that much more easy.
Jun 09 01:20:38 <set_> easier. whatever.
Jun 09 01:21:00 <set_> I am still learning about EEPROM.
Jun 09 01:21:30 <outrageous_> I see :)
Jun 09 01:21:34 <zmatt> there's not much to learn about EEPROM
Jun 09 01:21:38 <set_> oh?
Jun 09 01:21:51 <set_> I am trying to cover more bases than I am worth.
Jun 09 01:22:00 <zmatt> it stores data.  like a file, but fixed size.  that's all it does
Jun 09 01:22:19 <set_> I mean. I get it. You write to it and it can be written to.
Jun 09 01:23:02 <outrageous_> lovely little things
Jun 09 01:23:29 <zmatt> one many forms of non-volatile memory
Jun 09 01:23:31 <zmatt> *one of
Jun 09 01:23:57 * outrageous_ nods
Jun 09 01:24:22 <set_> Yep. I watched this fellow online add source to the smallest chip on Earth.
Jun 09 01:25:57 <set_> It was nice. I learned that the chip, no matter how small, can transfer data to peripherals.
Jun 09 01:26:32 <set_> I guess the larger the chip, these days, the harder it gets to write/read data from and to it.
Jun 09 01:28:12 <zmatt> f-ram is pretty neat too... it's available as devices that behave like i2c eeprom or spi flash, except it tolerates 10^14 write-cycles
Jun 09 01:28:25 <set_> oh.
Jun 09 01:28:34 <set_> I have a launchpad that does that w/ FRAM.
Jun 09 01:28:51 <zmatt> yeah there are indeed also some microcontrollers with integrated fram
Jun 09 01:29:04 <set_> Oh?
Jun 09 01:29:12 <set_> you mean for how many times you can write to it.
Jun 09 01:29:12 <zmatt> that's what you mean right?
Jun 09 01:29:22 <set_> Yep.
Jun 09 01:29:36 <zmatt> high write endurance is one of the features of fram
Jun 09 01:30:03 <set_> Tolerance/endurance is needed for people like me who need to test over and over.
Jun 09 01:30:21 <set_> I mean. Who knows how many times the source will take to get it right.
Jun 09 01:30:26 <zmatt> depends on how many times "over and over" is
Jun 09 01:30:42 <set_> Well, not 10^14!
Jun 09 01:30:48 <zmatt> :)
Jun 09 01:30:56 <set_> I would most likely be too old and dead by then.
Jun 09 01:32:23 <set_> Anyway. I think I have yapped too long over here. Most of what I discussed was hear-say and not really dedicated to the BBB currently.
Jun 09 01:32:34 <set_> ...
Jun 09 01:32:38 <set_> Break time!
Jun 09 01:33:04 <set_> I have been looking for some books on the EVEs for the new AI.
Jun 09 01:34:30 <set_> I got these two books from arm on the M4 microcontrollers. I have not found the PRU books that accessible at all.
Jun 09 01:35:17 <set_> It is a whole philosophy of thought and not documented well enough.
Jun 09 01:35:18 <set_> ...
Jun 09 01:35:32 <set_> Done. Break time.
Jun 09 01:36:22 <zmatt> microprocessors... a microcontroller is a microprocessor + peripherals (like a SoC... indeed the line between SoC and microcontroller can be blurry nowadays)
Jun 09 01:45:24 <set_> So, the M4 is a microprocessor and not a microcontroller?
Jun 09 01:45:51 <set_> This book must be from years back.
Jun 09 01:46:04 <zmatt> pretty sure the terminology has never been different
Jun 09 01:46:27 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:46:40 <zmatt> there are M4-based microcontrollers of course, but the M4 itself is not a microcontroller
Jun 09 01:46:47 <set_> Aw.
Jun 09 01:46:51 <set_> That makes sense now.
Jun 09 01:47:04 <set_> I think I may have gotten the wrong book.
Jun 09 01:47:22 <set_> It states arm microcontrollers.
Jun 09 01:47:27 <set_> M4.
Jun 09 01:47:51 <set_> Maybe arm makes some more. I will look that up.
Jun 09 01:48:24 <zmatt> arm does not produce any microcontrollers, or any physical chips whatsoever afaik
Jun 09 01:49:45 <zmatt> out of context, if someone says "arm microcontroller" I'd assume they use that term as shorthand for "arm-based microcontroller", i.e. a microcontroller containing an ARM core (typically ARM Cortex-M series)
Jun 09 01:50:01 <set_> For the instruction or the core. Oh yea.
Jun 09 01:50:27 <set_> So...
Jun 09 01:51:02 <set_> The AI, and let me try to understand, will have the SiP w/ the ARM Cortext-M series onboard?
Jun 09 01:51:19 <zmatt> like, Mouser has a category "ARM Microcontrollers" which means exactly that: microcontrollers from a variety of manufacturers that are based on an ARM core
Jun 09 01:51:22 <set_> Or as a separate chip?
Jun 09 01:51:30 <set_> Right.
Jun 09 01:51:33 <set_> I have seen them.
Jun 09 01:51:47 <zmatt> the AM5729 SoC on the BBAI contains four Cortex-M4 cores
Jun 09 01:51:54 <set_> Oh.
Jun 09 01:52:06 <zmatt> there is no separate microcontroller on it
Jun 09 01:52:12 <set_> Got it.
Jun 09 01:52:29 <zmatt> they're just auxiliary cores, just like the PRU cores
Jun 09 01:52:48 <zmatt> (and the DSPs, and the EVEs)
Jun 09 01:53:45 <set_> Okay. Understood. I think I got the right book for the Cortex-M cores.
Jun 09 01:54:51 <set_> I cannot wait to try out the book. I should read ahead for when this board comes out in case I can utilize it for other things outside of fun.
Jun 09 01:56:02 <set_> @zmatt: Should the board be ready, maybe, by Jan. 2020?
Jun 09 01:56:19 <zmatt> why are you asking me
Jun 09 01:56:36 <set_> B/c...you have access to people that know more on this subject.
Jun 09 01:56:44 <set_> I do not know squat.
Jun 09 01:56:58 <set_> All I know is that there is the AI that will come out one day.
Jun 09 01:58:46 <zmatt> "access to people that know more"? jason is right here in the channel :P  but the probable answer is that it'll be released when it's done :P
Jun 09 01:59:27 <zmatt> I have no specific knowledge of what its status is, haven't really followed its development
Jun 09 02:00:21 <set_> Okay.
Jun 09 02:00:38 <set_> Thank you. @zmatt: I know. You are not big on hardware.
Jun 09 02:01:40 <zmatt> I would disagree with that, I just don't have time and attention span to follow everything
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 09 02:59:57 2019