**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 13 02:59:57 2020 Jan 13 16:02:48 m Jan 13 16:17:50 ugh, I really hate how bigints have been implemented in javascript... Jan 13 16:17:52 > 2 * 2n Jan 13 16:17:55 TypeError: Cannot mix BigInt and other types, use explicit conversions Jan 13 16:25:40 so that means type conversion magic not included? Jan 13 16:25:55 correct, none whatsoever Jan 13 16:26:08 nor mixed number/bigint arithmetic Jan 13 16:31:00 wow, this even applies to shift operators... Jan 13 16:31:03 > 1n << 2 Jan 13 16:31:05 TypeError: Cannot mix BigInt and other types, use explicit conversions Jan 13 17:17:08 do you have to use js? perhaps abuse of web assembly and use the underlying js engine to run the byte code from a different compiler? Jan 13 17:17:43 this is nodejs code Jan 13 17:18:07 i.e. javascript is used because people thought it was a good idea, not because we're targeting the web Jan 13 17:20:21 well web assembly isn't JUST for the web, however I understand now what you are trying to do. Is it possible to create conversion functions with overloading like you would in C++? Jan 13 17:20:45 I never touched javascript (for good reason) Jan 13 17:25:04 to be more concrete: I've written a dbus library which currently implements the int64/uint64 types in a sub-optimal way... basically it just represents them as a Number (i.e. double-precision float) and warns if this results in loss of precision, and as a special-case hack any uint64 that's > 2**64-2**11 is interpreted as signed (i.e. in range -2047..-1) Jan 13 17:26:02 (this is a hack I've done because e.g. systemd uses 0xffffffffffffffff in some cases to indicate something special, like "no timestamp") Jan 13 17:27:04 I'm now looking a bit at the possibility of using bigints, which would be the Right Thing to do, except it will break everything and they're annooying as hell to use Jan 13 17:27:28 and yeah, if you do touch javascript at some point, don't forget to wash your hands afterwards Jan 13 17:28:23 just your hands? :D Jan 13 17:37:49 well this might be of some help apart from stating what you already know in more detail https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/BigInt Jan 13 17:53:43 it isn't :) there's not really much "help" possible since it's just about an annoying trade-off and language features Jan 13 17:54:07 at the very least I should start by accepting bigints when encoding (u)int64 Jan 13 17:59:06 zmatt I would have thought operator overloading might help however, remembering making "high precision float" library once that can be difficult at best. Jan 13 18:00:33 javascript doesn't support custom operator overloading Jan 13 18:02:06 oww. It is an interpretor I guess. Jan 13 18:03:12 it's generally JIT compiled, but that has absolutely no relevance to whether a language supports user-defined operator overloading or not Jan 13 18:09:29 very true. Jan 13 19:24:23 lol... Jan 13 19:24:27 "A study published in June 2019 reveals that in the Alexa Top 1 million websites, one out of 600 sites executes WebAssembly (Wasm) code. The study moreover finds that over 50% of those sites using WebAssembly apply it for malicious deeds, such as cryptocurrency mining and malware code obfuscation." Jan 13 20:13:13 haha :D Jan 13 20:20:53 well... criminal minds and opportunists Jan 13 20:24:37 and the fun thought "I wonder how many of those are from places like California the Eu and China." Jan 13 20:32:56 actually s/EU/Russia/ makes more sense. Jan 13 20:51:37 Hello Jan 13 20:53:09 Greets Jan 13 20:54:10 Does anybody know where I can find 3D model for the AI board Jan 13 21:06:43 I know! Jan 13 21:07:00 Wait. Forget it. I know of the github.com page w/ the other files. Jan 13 21:07:14 Have you looked at the github page for the AI? Jan 13 21:14:49 https://github.com/beagleboard/beaglebone-ai/tree/master/HW and they have a fritzing post if you scroll back to previous sections. Jan 13 21:17:26 Guest2949: It has similar hardware as the BBB but there are a few differences like the usb-c and three-pin serial connect. Jan 13 21:18:05 Are you building a metal frame for it? Jan 13 21:25:25 I saw a co. that produces metal "stuff." Go halves w/ me on a metal case for the BBAI, will you? Jan 13 21:26:56 I ask or say that b/c: --->>>> The fellow from Tindie that produced them went away for some reason... Jan 13 21:28:39 As they say a number of ways to do things. I suspect they have something they want to fit it into. Morning set_ Jan 13 21:33:26 GenTooMan: What up, fellow? Jan 13 21:33:37 Excuse me. What is up, fellow? Jan 13 21:34:39 I know the co. that did not hire me still does this type of work. .brd! Jan 13 21:35:55 I am researching ideas now on tindie for the BBB, BBAI, and/or BBGW. Jan 13 21:47:33 I'm doing some work with the robiticscape library on Blue that requires root access. How do I get cloud9 to run my node.js script with root access? I want to use cloud9 debugger, so don't want to run through bash/sudo. Any help? Jan 13 21:55:46 Hey. Look here: https://elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBoneBlack_Debian#i_take_full_responsibility_for_knowing_my_beagle_is_now_insecure Jan 13 21:56:19 I am pretty sure that bunch of commands takes out the sudo process from your root dir. Jan 13 21:58:23 Dang. I am wrong. Sorry man. Jan 13 22:08:12 Bob72: Have you tried sudo -i? Jan 13 22:09:21 Anybody know where i can get a 3d Model for the BB AI Jan 13 22:14:48 set_ the guest is back :D Jan 13 22:15:05 :) Jan 13 22:15:36 the dimensions for the BB AI seem to be different from the black version Jan 13 22:17:42 it's a different board Jan 13 22:17:52 Oh. Do you have the software to read brd files or are you looking at the .pdf? Jan 13 22:18:08 .pdf(s)? Jan 13 22:18:09 both Jan 13 22:18:13 Okay. Jan 13 22:18:16 Please hold. Jan 13 22:18:22 I was not sure if you were going to reply. Jan 13 22:18:35 i got disconnected sorry Jan 13 22:20:37 No issue. Jan 13 22:21:14 So, let me measure these boards real quickly. Is there a difference in size of the "card" or the components in which there is an issue? Jan 13 22:25:48 Okay. Jan 13 22:26:08 So, I measured the BBBW and the BBAI. It seems they are of the BBB form factor. Jan 13 22:26:30 54.xx" * 84.xx" Jan 13 22:26:41 Oops. Sorry. Jan 13 22:26:48 Let me try again. That is most likely mm. Jan 13 22:27:36 Yea. Sorry. That is mm instead of inches (obviously). Jan 13 22:27:41 Oops. Jan 13 22:28:21 Dang, mm and inch meaurements. Read the fine print <<< I keep telling myself this fact. Jan 13 22:31:10 So. Yep. The mechanical is the same except for the components. The components, like GenTooMan stated, "its a different board." Jan 13 22:31:40 Gues42055: What are you looking to grasp for the difference in component placements? Jan 13 22:33:27 I could guess but I have unlimited ideas. One would be for a Cape, another for a fan, and last but not least, Metal Enclosure! Jan 13 22:33:42 Please say metal enclosure! Jan 13 22:36:48 I hate it when my enclosure goes mental... oh wait metal... never mind. Jan 13 22:40:47 Not mental. Sheesh. Jan 13 22:41:28 METAL, yes sir! Jan 13 22:42:27 I chatted w/ some people about the through-hole socket I was going to get. That thing was way too expsensive for just testing. It was more than the evm. Jan 13 22:42:54 Cough. Jan 13 22:50:42 Hello, What is the operating temperature range of the beaglebone AI Jan 13 22:52:24 Mine was at 38.00 from some script that someone gave me but that was w/ a fan. Jan 13 22:53:07 thanks, I'm interested if it works at -30c Jan 13 22:53:33 Oh. Jan 13 22:53:38 Do you have one right now? Jan 13 22:53:51 I do not have one yet Jan 13 22:54:00 Dang. I could have given you that script to test it. Jan 13 22:54:19 Ken80: Hey, you may want to wait. I think the bbb.io peoples are working on another version. Jan 13 22:54:31 Updates! Jan 13 22:56:11 Ok thanks Jan 13 22:57:12 No issue. It may work at less than 30c but I do not know. Stick around. I am sure some other people may know more. Jan 13 23:00:47 Ken80: -30 ? o.O Jan 13 23:03:19 Yeah anything that might be used in an outdoor environment needs to support at least -30 to +85. Its going colder then that here tonight. Jan 13 23:04:13 the +85 is probably a bigger problem than the -30... given that the ai produces quite a bit of heat Jan 13 23:05:09 hm, the part code in the schematic is that of the Extended Temperature version (-40 to +105) .. I wonder if that's actually true Jan 13 23:05:47 oh that's good, it depends if they kept that on all the other components too Jan 13 23:06:11 its strange they dont list an operating temperature spec Jan 13 23:07:46 as long as the oscillator works you are OK at -30. I've dropped things to -65 .. which isn't just cold. Jan 13 23:08:22 still, if it's in some kind of enclosure, it'll keep itself significantly warmer than ambient. Jan 13 23:09:24 you could always have some cores run at 100% cpu load if the measured temperature drops too low :P Jan 13 23:10:01 haha thats an interesting solution Jan 13 23:12:31 they use that technique and heaters in satellites and space exploration devices. Jan 13 23:14:23 +85 ambient might be a challenge though, since even with good active cooling (which you'd definitely need) the junction temperature will then still be significantly above 85, and there's really not much margin left there Jan 13 23:17:53 it'll also affect device lifetime, e.g. in one particular configuration (OPP_NOM/OPP_OD with HDMI used) the datasheet gives a Power-on-hours limit of 100k @ 90͏°C, 63k @ 100͏°C, 45k @ 105͏°C Jan 13 23:21:11 that would be roughly 11/7/5 years operation time respective (FYI note) the memory devices might suffer from that heat in a bad way too. Jan 13 23:22:04 why do you need such a high upper limit if it's outdoors? that sounds like it should be preventable (by shielding from direct sunlight and/or allowing it to use air cooling when needed) Jan 13 23:22:23 everything will suffer at those temperatures Jan 13 23:22:54 but yeah, normally 85 is the max for DDR3 memory Jan 13 23:24:08 DDR3 with extended temperature rating is up to 95͏°C, but also requires doubling the refresh rate Jan 13 23:25:56 it's surprising the conditions you get outdoors .. VERY surprising. Jan 13 23:27:01 I mean, I'm not surprised things can get unpleasant if you have direct sunlight and no ventilation Jan 13 23:31:28 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TB7_Baarn.JPG when sunlight hits these "screens" (they actually have embedded computers) on trainstations here in the netherlands, they sound like they're equipped with RC jet engines or something ;P Jan 13 23:33:14 LOL Oh now I know what that sounds like :D quite the high pitch whine. Jan 13 23:46:10 the high limit isnt as likely to happen as the low, the high can be reached inside of vehicles in the sun Jan 13 23:48:11 The high temp in my area is -28c tomorrow Jan 13 23:49:26 right now we use variscite boards that operate -40 to 85 Jan 13 23:52:12 phytec has an am57xx SoM with that same temperature spec Jan 13 23:52:45 although question is of course what that means exactly... 85͏°C where? Jan 14 00:09:14 Yep. If 80 degrees celsius is 176 fahrenheit, that board can take an awful lot of heat. I mean, just do not boil it. Jan 14 00:09:58 I was thinking of the melting point of plastic a while back. PLA melts nicely at around 90c. Jan 14 00:12:22 I mean, yes. People want to have their "working things" work when the heat cannot get dissipated but 176 F is almost boiling. Things do not usually get this hot in life, i.e. outside of a volcano, some parts of the ocean where heat vents into it, and when we humans mess w/ things. Jan 14 00:13:08 Well. I heard of one section of AUS that gets pretty hot but it is not going to melt your car. Jan 14 00:14:44 ... Jan 14 00:15:00 I think this may be one of the issues w/ biotech. It may melt. Jan 14 00:19:48 Bob70: here --->>> https://github.com/beagleboard/beaglebone-ai/wiki/System-Reference-Manual#9-mechanical-information means bbb.io peoples have not made a 3D rendering of the machine yet! Jan 14 00:23:40 Sorry. Guest42025: Look at one or two lines above this for info. ^ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 14 03:00:09 2020