**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 26 02:59:58 2020 Jan 26 03:01:22 Nope. Jan 26 03:01:25 I will check now. Jan 26 03:02:27 I checked PATH but when I typed in whereis activate, it prints activate: Jan 26 03:02:48 means it didn't find it. Jan 26 03:02:54 Oh. Jan 26 03:02:58 let me check something Jan 26 03:03:05 Please. Send rations. Jan 26 03:03:14 https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/installing-packages/#optionally-create-a-virtual-environment is what I found. Jan 26 03:03:23 But...it is not anything close to reasonable on my end. Jan 26 03:04:26 I got it. Jan 26 03:04:41 you executed virtualenv did you do ls //bin/activate? Jan 26 03:05:11 GenTooMan: Yea. I used the command from /home/debian and it worked. Jan 26 03:05:26 I was using it from my directory I made. Jan 26 03:07:09 did you use venv or virtualenv on and did you use a full path? IE /home/muppet/moppet/pet-skunk/asylum or something akin to that Jan 26 03:07:18 Oh. Jan 26 03:07:23 Let me see. Jan 26 03:08:12 source virt/bin/activate from the home/debian dir. Jan 26 03:08:45 I got what you were asking at first now about "if the source worked." Jan 26 03:08:59 in the venv, I have not a clue but I am about to find out. Jan 26 03:11:23 Yep. Jan 26 03:11:25 It works. Jan 26 03:16:54 it works in the ~/ home directory. So it looks like you built your virtual environment their. So did you use python -m venv or virtual Jan 26 03:17:05 Everything works. Now, it is time to hook up everything and test it. Jan 26 03:17:08 Oh. Jan 26 03:17:23 I'll wait for something to blow up .. actually I should sleep instead. Jan 26 03:17:31 Um. I think I typed python3 -m venv Jan 26 03:17:36 Ha. Jan 26 03:17:49 I shut it down and unplugged. Jan 26 03:18:19 I will check my records when I plug it back in. Jan 26 03:18:40 sleep-schmeep. Jan 26 03:19:36 well it might be 7pm ish your time but it's 10pm ish mine and 3AM zmatts have to keep in mind the TZ factor around the world. Jan 26 03:19:56 Oh. Jan 26 03:20:03 4:19 Jan 26 03:20:07 Dang! Jan 26 03:20:14 am? Jan 26 03:20:27 we don't do am/pm silliness here Jan 26 03:20:32 What? Jan 26 03:20:34 Serious. Jan 26 03:20:48 So, it is just 24hrs around the clock? Jan 26 03:21:20 most of the world uses a 24hr clock Jan 26 03:21:24 Oh. Jan 26 03:21:28 I was unaware of that idea. Jan 26 03:22:05 for time notation and digital clocks that is, an analog clock is 12hr Jan 26 03:22:55 (analog 24hr clocks exist but are very rare... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_Polar_Expedition_watch_from_1969_(front).jpg ) Jan 26 03:27:06 Hmm. Jan 26 03:27:56 I saw it. Jan 26 03:28:34 24 hr. watch. I have never seen one before today. Jan 26 03:28:52 yeah me neither Jan 26 03:29:10 Odd. I guess in '69, they existed in Russia. Jan 26 03:29:55 That must be one tired, wound gear! Jan 26 03:34:00 it was made specifically for a polar expedition, since on the north and south poles it's either continuously day or continuously night (depending on the time of year) Jan 26 03:34:47 Aw. Them boys must be fighting polar bears as we speak. Oh and they must see some Eskimos too. Jan 26 03:35:08 1969 Jan 26 03:35:08 @zmatt: Do you deal w/ a lot of cold weather? Jan 26 03:35:12 Oh. Jan 26 03:35:13 Right. Jan 26 03:35:47 '69 Jan 26 03:36:35 it doesn't get very cold here Jan 26 03:36:37 I mean, here in the states, it gets cold but not like up north. Jan 26 03:36:39 What? Jan 26 03:36:55 Negative 20 degrees? Jan 26 03:37:19 C or F? Jan 26 03:37:27 Our state Alaska gets the coldest. Oh F. Jan 26 03:37:49 I'm not even sure if it's been below freezing yet this "winter", if it has then only marginally so Jan 26 03:37:59 Hmm. Jan 26 03:38:08 It's been well below freezing numerous times here. Jan 26 03:38:20 I am in the South and we had some freezing temps. this year. Jan 26 03:38:46 I do not understand. When I think of the Neatherlands, i think of tall people and cold weather. Jan 26 03:38:56 I may have been taught incorrectly. Jan 26 03:39:29 You know. Norse? Jan 26 03:40:15 Hmm. Maybe my view of the world is southern hemisphere and the US mostly. Jan 26 03:40:46 -10C was the worst so far here. Depends on where he lives and and the weather cycle. It does get cold their though. Jan 26 03:41:45 Yea. 14 degrees is cold. Jan 26 03:42:19 I'm much further south too. :D Jan 26 03:42:22 temperature minimum (at De Bilt) this month so far seems to have been -2͏°C => https://knmi.nl/nederland-nu/klimatologie/maand-en-seizoensoverzichten/lopende_maand Jan 26 03:43:21 Hmm. What is your primary speaking language? Jan 26 03:43:38 I feel new to the world or something. Jan 26 03:43:39 https://cdn.knmi.nl/knmi/map/page/klimatologie/geografische-overzichten/tn/tn20200120.png map of minimum temperature that night Jan 26 03:43:43 dutch Jan 26 03:43:48 Oh. Jan 26 03:43:50 Okay. Jan 26 03:43:56 That makes sense. Jan 26 03:44:38 I remember you saying a long time ago, your native language was not English. Jan 26 03:44:49 indeed it is not Jan 26 03:45:06 Hmm. Did you learn a lot of English b/c of Linux? Jan 26 03:46:19 the dutch are pretty decent at english on average I think... though my passion for computers no doubt helped Jan 26 03:46:30 like, even as a kid I communicated a lot in english Jan 26 03:47:12 Okay. I figured. Hmm. Okay. I just remember this one teacher from school. She was a Pakistani woman w/ a heavy acsent. Jan 26 03:47:29 She never knew what I was saying but could describe computer literature in depth in English. Jan 26 03:49:22 also, unless they're meant for really young audiences, we use subtitles for foreign movies and tv series (which are overwhelmingly english) rather than dubbing them Jan 26 03:49:35 I'm pretty sure that actually helps a lot Jan 26 03:50:05 Right. Jan 26 03:50:16 I remember reading French movies as a child. Jan 26 03:51:10 That language is so funny once I could read and write in English. Jan 26 03:51:42 Okay, okay. I am sorry. I know we are supposed to chat about beagleboard.org in here. Please forgive me. Jan 26 03:51:59 I am being too nosey. Jan 26 03:59:10 Speaking of bbb.io, I may have maxed out on milliamps on my BBGW. Oops. I need to test that idea out. Jan 26 06:02:29 bbb e14 with latest emmc Jan 26 06:02:47 can't seem to mount sd card Jan 26 06:03:44 followed a few links which indicate the card is there Jan 26 06:04:00 but it isn't showing up in a df -h Jan 26 06:04:17 it won't unless you mount it Jan 26 06:04:50 so use the mount cmd Jan 26 06:05:05 the device is in the fstab file Jan 26 06:05:17 and ran the resize2fs Jan 26 06:05:18 if /dev/mmcblk0 exists then the card has been detected Jan 26 06:05:28 yes Jan 26 06:05:52 but should it not auto mount via the fstab file Jan 26 06:06:01 if you did it correctly then yes Jan 26 06:06:02 after reboot Jan 26 06:06:17 can you share your /etc/fstab ? (e.g. via pastebin or similar paste service) Jan 26 06:06:26 moment Jan 26 06:07:01 be careful with putting removable media in /etc/fstab btw since unless you choose the mount options carefully, the system will refuse to boot at all if the filesystem can't be mounted Jan 26 06:09:17 this is the line I added to fstab Jan 26 06:09:57 paste isn't uploading to chat?? Jan 26 06:10:32 "/dev/mmchblk0p1 /media/Data auto rw,user,auto,nofail 0 0" Jan 26 06:10:35 the only things that appear in chat are those you type Jan 26 06:11:36 should user be debian and or root? Jan 26 06:11:45 what filesystem are you using? Jan 26 06:12:16 the one you gave be yesterday latest emmc flash 9.x Jan 26 06:12:30 on the sd card I mean Jan 26 06:12:30 with all the upgrades Jan 26 06:12:37 ext4 Jan 26 06:12:55 "user" is a weird option to choose in combination with "auto" Jan 26 06:13:24 just copied some details from a beagle link Jan 26 06:13:29 since "user" will only allow the user that mounted the filesystem to unmount it again Jan 26 06:14:04 (and I'm guessing that would be implicitly root in case of an auto-mounted filesystem, for whom the "user" option is obviously pointless) Jan 26 06:14:20 so if you want any user to be able to both mount and unmount the filesystem, use "users" instead Jan 26 06:14:26 anyway, as for why it's not mounted... not sure Jan 26 06:14:27 if I remove from fstab ... what is the correct mount syntax Jan 26 06:14:47 sudo mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/Data Jan 26 06:14:50 should work Jan 26 06:15:07 oh, I have an idea why it might not work in fstab Jan 26 06:15:07 k simple enough Jan 26 06:15:38 presumably you're using initramfs (I don't personally but the official images do by default) Jan 26 06:15:47 I just searched for adding sd card in beagle and followed the links Jan 26 06:16:10 so probably the initramfs image needs to be updated after modifying fstab to ensure the changes are available to early init Jan 26 06:16:20 inittramfs? Jan 26 06:17:14 the sd card was first not being seen by debian due to it being formatted to fat32 (factory) Jan 26 06:17:50 initramfs is basically an archive of files that the bootloader will load (from /boot/initrd-$VERSION iirc) and pass to the kernel, which will use it to populate a temporary in-ram filesystem from which userspace execution begins Jan 26 06:18:02 so used a win program called diskgenius to do the ext4 Jan 26 06:18:04 you can mount fat32 just fine Jan 26 06:18:12 same mount command will work Jan 26 06:18:35 it wasn't showing up in the dev list Jan 26 06:18:46 filesystem has no effect on that Jan 26 06:18:53 ok Jan 26 06:19:06 I will put it back and try again Jan 26 06:19:14 remove the line in fstab Jan 26 06:19:16 linux can also mount it as fat32 for you Jan 26 06:19:19 format Jan 26 06:19:27 and then do a manual mount Jan 26 06:20:42 in unix isn't it possible to expand the overall os space dynamically across mounted fs Jan 26 06:21:04 not really no Jan 26 06:21:08 basically was hoping to install the gui desktop Jan 26 06:21:14 except by using LVM Jan 26 06:21:20 but I wouldn't recommend doing that Jan 26 06:21:55 why? a desktop environment is never going to perform well on the BBB Jan 26 06:21:57 so how do people get gui with only a 4g emmc Jan 26 06:22:12 most people don't Jan 26 06:22:17 ok Jan 26 06:22:33 I was wanting to compare to the rpi Jan 26 06:22:37 I've never felt any desire to put a desktop environment on a beaglebone Jan 26 06:22:52 rpi in raspbian has a full blown gui Jan 26 06:23:02 the SoC on the rpi is far more media-oriented and graphics-friendly than the one on the BBB Jan 26 06:23:15 ok Jan 26 06:23:17 the SoC on the BBB was designed for industrial applications Jan 26 06:23:30 sure ... embedded controls Jan 26 06:23:43 its display driver doesn't even support a hardware cursor, being intended mainly just for simple touchscreen interfaces Jan 26 06:23:51 *display controller Jan 26 06:24:25 my daughter is doing a el course in college and so we have been exploring all aspects of RPI Arduino and now BBB Jan 26 06:24:29 I'm not saying you *can't* run a desktop environment on a BBB of course, it just doesn't run very comfortably Jan 26 06:24:43 good to know Jan 26 06:25:53 if for whatever reason I did feel some need for one, I'd probably start with a minimal image and install a lightweight desktop environment fine-tuned to my needs Jan 26 06:26:10 thx again zmatt ur a wealth of info Jan 26 06:27:03 and if you do need a system that can't fit *comfortably* on eMMC, your best option is to run entirely from SD card, despite the performance hit Jan 26 06:31:10 heh, I was just curious how much space we're currently using on our main development beaglebone at work, and it has only 369M free right now... Jan 26 06:31:13 the culprit being: Jan 26 06:31:15 1.5G /home Jan 26 06:31:34 I guess me and the other devs badly need to clean out our homedirs :P Jan 26 06:36:19 With all the upgrades the emmc is sitting at 1.1G free Jan 26 06:36:49 the mount worked ... now have a 29G sd Jan 26 06:37:05 1.1G free is plenty for comfort Jan 26 06:37:19 could do a link to use the SD to pad the home user Jan 26 06:37:30 symbolic link? Jan 26 06:38:28 basically use the sd to hold data and scripts programs we are going to develop for class projects? Jan 26 06:39:31 RPI uses phython ... what is the common language supported under BBB Jan 26 06:39:38 why? you have more than a GB free Jan 26 06:39:52 true Jan 26 06:40:03 programming languages are not really hardware-dependent Jan 26 06:40:10 plenty of room Jan 26 06:41:39 both are running debian-derived linux systems and can run similar software (the older rpi versions being a bit more limited since they're ARMv6 rather than ARMv7, which is why a separate "raspbian" distro was made, while the BBB just uses normal debian packages) Jan 26 06:43:04 yes but arduino has its C, C++, RPI seems to push Python, haven't found any trend in bbb so sky's the limit Jan 26 06:44:43 just use whatever you want Jan 26 06:45:02 so if one was to want to do some iot dev in bbb then would just have to find a direction Jan 26 06:45:19 we use C++ and nodejs, I also have a python3 project for the BBB ( https://github.com/mvduin/py-uio ) Jan 26 06:45:42 cool Jan 26 06:46:12 (the PRU cores on the BBB are programmed in assembly or C/C++) Jan 26 06:46:19 well I have been doing all kinds of stuff since the late 70's so this is fun all over again Jan 26 06:46:44 started on a 4 bit scamp Jan 26 06:46:46 if you do use python, just be sure to use python3 and not the old python2 :P Jan 26 06:47:04 heh, well maybe you'll like the PRU cores then ;) Jan 26 06:47:35 PRU? Jan 26 06:47:40 sorry Jan 26 06:48:13 they were designed to be programmed in assembly and have a pretty nice macro-assembler Jan 26 06:48:14 they're also probably the most significant feature the BBB has over other boards Jan 26 06:48:36 been doing RISC with PIC since the 90's Jan 26 06:48:53 so cores are still a mystery Jan 26 06:49:18 top down with some event and irq driven stuff Jan 26 06:49:21 Programmable Realtime Unit ... they're two simple 32-bit RISC cores (200 MHz, almost all instructions single-cycle), in a subsystem (together with local SRAM and some peripherals) of the AM335x SoC Jan 26 06:50:02 with gpios wired directly into registers Jan 26 06:50:35 sounds much like pic stuff Jan 26 06:50:55 although not single cycle Jan 26 06:51:14 anyway got to run thx again for your help Jan 26 06:51:19 they're used e.g. to generate signals with very precise timing, implementation of custom protocols, etc Jan 26 06:51:23 much appreciated Jan 26 06:51:36 one example application is BeagleLogic, which uses PRU to turn a beaglebone into a 14-channel 100Msps logic analyzer Jan 26 06:52:20 (which is fairly impressive since that means one core is spending 50% of its cpu cycles on sampling the inputs) Jan 26 06:54:01 and writing to memory requires a multi-cycle instruction, so instead the sampling-core gathers blocks of a bunch of samples and passes these to the other PRU core (via single-cycle core-to-core transfer) which then writes the data out to memory Jan 26 06:56:19 hmm, did some of your text get lost somewhere? or what was the "< BJ91> although not single cycle" referring to? Jan 26 06:56:36 or, cya :) Jan 26 08:49:55 has anyone compared the PRU cores to a Cortex-R? Jan 26 08:53:00 cortex-R has hard-to-analyze instruction timing Jan 26 08:53:55 "Complex instruction dependencies and memory system interactions make it impossible to describe briefly the exact cycle timing behavior for all instructions in all circumstances. The timings described in this chapter are accurate in most cases. If precise timings are required, you must use a cycle-accurate model of the processor." -- Cortex-R5 TRM Jan 26 08:54:54 it has a four-stage pipeline with interlocks and such Jan 26 09:00:47 also branch condition prediction (for non-indirect branches and returns) and return target prediction Jan 26 09:01:44 indirect branches (including return with mispredicted target) take 9 cycles Jan 26 09:02:13 so yeah, even if simpler and more deterministic than Cortex-A, it's still worse than Cortex-M let alone PRU Jan 26 09:20:44 so in otherwords, it is only good if you need redundancy ? Jan 26 09:24:19 well compared to cortex-A it still has more deterministic timing (in part thanks to having TCM), lower interrupt latency Jan 26 09:25:21 it uses a memory-protection unit instead of an MMU, so no virtual memory Jan 26 09:26:06 it's kinda in-between cortex-M and -A Jan 26 09:26:17 plus the lock-step feature Jan 26 17:36:49 PIC ... hmmm no comment. PRU interesting original PIC qualities without the horrible after taste. Jan 26 17:48:48 lol Jan 26 18:00:56 GenTooMan: not a fan of PIC? :) Jan 26 18:15:03 zmatt the good ones yes, but in truth microchip utterly botched 90% of the devices they made, which the refused to correct, in entire series of parts. Jan 26 18:15:23 sweet Jan 26 18:17:16 seriously entire 16F series had the same I2C bus bug <-- classic example. Jan 26 18:19:11 still the funniest (if you're not the one affected by it) erratum I've seen was some older TI DSP where if power-up sequencing was subtly wrong it had a chance of burning a random eFuse on each boot Jan 26 18:21:02 considering how expensive TI DSP's were in mid 90's and post 2000 (IE 50 to 150 US each) that probably couldn't end well. Jan 26 18:23:59 well funny would be http://www.ganssle.com/misc/wom1.jpg and http://www.ganssle.com/misc/wom2.jpg :D Jan 26 19:21:11 one comment "argh my work got obliterated again" Jan 26 23:14:00 This is odd. I just wired up the bot and it starts, reverses, and spins but it is not listening to my commands. Jan 26 23:14:21 For instance, I can tell it to go forward, it goes forward but only for a couple seconds. Jan 26 23:14:37 I must have messed up the source somewhere. Jan 26 23:37:23 Anyway, : https://pastebin.com/u6hpYXwr <<< Testing One, Two, Testing One, Two, Three Jan 26 23:43:24 I thought it was my permissions but it works the same w/ or w/out the a+x permission w/ chmod and #!/usr/bin/python. Jan 26 23:44:12 #!/usr/bin/python3...sorry. Jan 26 23:53:36 It works the same if the battery is plugged in or if the USB is plugged in. It keeps getting weirder.d Jan 27 00:40:08 No idea Jan 27 00:40:27 GenTooMah: Okay. No issue. Jan 27 00:41:01 I am currently working on it. It could just be the html page I am serving. I have a "fancy" page that was partially fixed up already by w3schools. Jan 27 00:49:59 I think it has to do w/ my venv. I just do not know how to test things w/ it just yet. Jan 27 00:55:22 Well people made the tools so they aren't perfect. Jan 27 01:09:47 Yep. Jan 27 01:10:11 I thought it was b/c of the venv location or the smbus2 library not being around. All I did was put the file in my dir. Jan 27 01:10:26 I then used pip3 to install the smbus2 library for i2c communication. Jan 27 01:10:30 That did not work either. Jan 27 01:12:15 Each command I give my bot works but only for a one second interval. So, forward and etc only work for one second. Jan 27 01:12:38 I might have to use the MotorCape w/ the BBBW. Jan 27 01:16:32 I have one other alternative, uWSGI. Jan 27 01:21:40 I was using gunicorn for now. Jan 27 01:39:45 Is the venv environment when using pip3 supposed to save things in /myDir/bin/ or should it be located in /myDir/env/bin/include? Jan 27 01:40:01 Aw!@ Jan 27 01:58:51 Too many options w/ venv but I guess I will keep trying! Jan 27 02:04:45 I made a ghost! The machine is now promoting its own WiFi connection and it works w/out me running any .service files or files. Jan 27 02:05:00 I need a break. Jan 27 02:19:35 I got the ghost to quit! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 27 02:59:58 2020