**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 28 02:59:57 2020 Feb 28 03:01:43 Times they sure have changed Feb 28 03:03:14 Yes I remember waiting 5 minutes for data to be copied to a 128M USB drive under linux. It was only 5M too. I was "un-elated" by that. Feb 28 03:19:04 Do you remember the Zip & Jaz drives? Feb 28 03:20:26 Our IT department loved them for updates & copying users files. Feb 28 03:21:13 Our IT department loved them for updates & copying users files. 1998? Feb 28 03:28:47 Say good night Gracy... Feb 28 03:50:51 Hello? Feb 28 03:52:56 Dang, I missed everything. Feb 28 09:39:48 just flashed bone-debian-9.9-lxqt-armhf-2019-08-03-4gb.img.xz into a BBwhite sdcard, touchscreen is not working, where to start from ? Feb 28 10:44:10 Hi! Can I read PocketBeagle internal CPU temperature value with bash? Feb 28 11:17:58 Siegurd: there are none to read (with bash or anything else) Feb 28 11:19:06 (there are bandgap temperature sensors in the AM335x but their accuracy is known to be so terrible that they've been defeatured) Feb 28 11:21:07 specifically, the error is ±10.8 °C and TI support has said "The AM335X built-in bandgap sensor has no use for end customers, it's used in factory and test measurements." Feb 28 12:13:12 Thanks! Feb 28 13:30:13 zmatt I can attest that most such sensors are terrible. TI uses a similar sensor in their MSP series, the offset is what is so bad, the AM335X doesn't have programmable memory however so they can't program the offset value into each processor at burn in test. Feb 28 13:44:50 GenTooMan: they most certainly could, all TI SoCs have efuses used for things like that Feb 28 13:45:21 so my assumption would be that the sensor is more terrible than calibration could compensate Feb 28 13:54:33 zmatt that is what I was thinking. the typical circuit involves a differential amplifier and two transistors with different PN junction areas. Variation in small amounts between the junction sizes and the gain in the diff amp can make calibration impractical. Feb 28 13:56:26 maybe they just didn't get around to making it work right in the am335x... it's a relatively cheap SoC, and one where thermal management is usually not particularly important Feb 28 13:58:40 Do have they a working temperature sensor on the AM572X series? Feb 28 13:58:50 yup Feb 28 13:59:24 (5 of 'em) Feb 28 14:00:19 dunno how accurate they are of course, but they're there and used for thermal management Feb 28 14:02:19 I see that would mean necessity was important. Would have been nice if they had just used a junction output instead. I like to monitor temperature variation between ambient and an IC over a range of temperatures to see thermal conductivity, heat generation etc. Feb 28 14:05:12 not sure what you mean by that, but the x15 does also have a separate sensor on the pcb itself. some example readings from all sensors (2 second interval) when making 1 core run at 100% cpu load: https://pastebin.com/711Dg4dJ Feb 28 14:09:08 That SoC can be used for a coffee warmer. Reminds me of the person who used one of the early Pentium's to fry an egg. Feb 28 14:25:56 m Feb 28 14:34:23 no wonder I felt cold it's -7 out... geesh. Feb 28 15:09:50 Hello Feb 28 15:11:01 Can i get the detailed pin configuration of the beaglebone AI Feb 28 15:12:04 ? Feb 28 15:18:37 Yes you can, it is indeed available. Feb 28 15:19:41 fly by millisecond person Feb 28 15:47:47 lol Feb 28 18:34:18 Hiii Feb 28 18:34:41 I want to know about beaglebone AI pin configuration Feb 28 18:35:35 Please reply as early as possible Feb 28 18:39:51 Anyone there to respond to my question... Feb 28 18:41:44 you may have to wait a bit, also you may wish to read information regarding the AI. The pin configuration is not the same as the BBB as it is a different SoC. Feb 28 18:43:03 ritesh however the method for configuring the pins used in the BBB is likely applicable to the AI Feb 28 18:57:16 and they are gone Feb 28 18:57:42 must be a class today or something. Feb 28 19:20:05 it isn't (applicable) Feb 28 19:21:13 I still have an idea for allowing u-boot to perform the pin configuration based on DT (including overlays), but right now it's just that: an idea Feb 28 19:24:47 so the AI is something completely different in terms of IO configuration? Feb 28 19:24:57 yes, same as the bbx15 Feb 28 19:25:58 the only way to do glitch-free IO reconfiguration right now is during early u-boot, based on a table that's compiled into the first u-boot stage (MLO) Feb 28 19:26:47 using DT to let the kernel configure pins is supported too, but may cause brief glitches on the pin (which may or may not matter) Feb 28 19:27:09 the syntax is kinda different and moreover u-boot doesn't support overlays yet (afaik) Feb 28 19:28:31 that issue has to do with how the kernel drivers are written or its the SoC? Feb 28 19:29:28 the fact that glitch-free IO reconfiguration is only possible while IO is isolated (typically only during early u-boot) is due to chip errata Feb 28 19:36:24 Hmm I'll have to see what the errata says. It is in any case good to know. Feb 28 19:39:03 GenTooMan: i869 is the main erratum, though i933 is also fun Feb 28 19:50:29 Be Back In A Few ... minutes hopefully... reboot time after a month. Feb 28 19:50:33 or 2 Feb 28 20:18:00 so for reflashing the BBB you edit uEnv.txt on the SD card or the eMMC? Feb 28 20:18:08 SD card Feb 28 20:18:38 eMMC should not be consulted when booting from SD card Feb 28 20:20:53 Right that is what I was thinking, however the misfortune I had was reading (some random documentation whose link is gone after reboot) I examined carefully and it did not SAY which to edit. Hence I was "WTH?" (What The Heck?). Feb 28 20:28:35 PS thanks for keeping me sane. Feb 28 20:41:05 hey, as someone who has written "new this" in serious javascript code, I can't make any promises about contributing positively to sanity Feb 28 21:31:46 seriously... LOL Feb 28 21:39:27 just remember it's just a state of mind Feb 28 23:49:14 What's shakin? Feb 28 23:50:31 My new BBB, power supply & EVO cards showed up today. Gonna be a busy weekend... Feb 29 00:07:26 What are you going to do w/ your board? Feb 29 00:14:56 Replace the one I broke the SD-Slot on. Feb 29 00:16:05 Ever get your wifi going? Feb 29 00:17:52 Just got a bill from my Dentist for a new lower denture & mounting bar $7,400.... Feb 29 00:18:26 Oh. Feb 29 00:18:31 No. No wifi on mine. Feb 29 00:18:41 Double damn. Feb 29 00:18:59 You had it working, No? Feb 29 00:19:11 Yea but I goofed it up. Feb 29 00:19:24 How? Feb 29 00:19:42 All I did was unplug the ethernet and the board would not work w/ connmanctl and the services would show only ethernet. Feb 29 00:19:45 Odd? Feb 29 00:20:21 Oh how? Um, I am not sure. I think I messed w/ /etc/networks/interface. Feb 29 00:21:00 I knew as soon as I started to mess w/ it, backing up would have been smart. Feb 29 00:21:26 I can upload mine if you want. You will have to tweak it? Feb 29 00:21:43 No issue. Feb 29 00:21:50 The baord still works. Feb 29 00:22:21 Well I should get my wifi in a few days. Some fun, huh ? Feb 29 00:22:44 I just have to rewrite it and get on github.com to find out how interfaces looks from bbb.io. Feb 29 00:22:47 Yes! Feb 29 00:22:50 WiFi! Feb 29 00:23:23 set_, you coming in thru Amsterdam? Feb 29 00:23:38 Hope not, I hear you all are vikings. Feb 29 00:23:42 Ha. Feb 29 00:23:51 But seriously, no. Feb 29 00:24:12 I guess, oh. Amsterdam. Feb 29 00:24:14 set_ info says Connected to orwell.freenode.net (Amsterdam, NL, EU) Feb 29 00:24:20 Mine? Feb 29 00:24:38 Hmm. Feb 29 00:24:43 I am in the states. Feb 29 00:24:53 Your set_@unaffiliated/set/x-1833283 rite? Feb 29 00:25:54 I am set_ Feb 29 00:26:16 Yes. Feb 29 00:26:29 unaffiliated! Feb 29 00:27:13 Look at the people here list and pull up your name Feb 29 00:27:27 I would but I am set_. Feb 29 00:27:35 Plain and simple Feb 29 00:28:04 it is of no concern to me. Feb 29 00:28:23 I thought mr. mardi gra.. Feb 29 00:28:31 Ha. Feb 29 00:28:42 That is me. Feb 29 00:28:53 Parades and floats. Feb 29 00:29:16 KenUnix: So, what are your intentions on getting to know specific things about me? Feb 29 00:29:59 Like, I mean. Are you trying to find out about my hair color or my "pretty" blue eyes? Feb 29 00:30:03 No offense. Feb 29 00:31:06 Anyway...plug that BBB in and let me know what happens. Feb 29 00:31:08 Nothing at all. Just thought it interesting. Welll my eyes are Hazel. Feb 29 00:31:14 Ha. Feb 29 00:31:38 Forget our eyes, man. KenUnix: You might have to update your image too. Feb 29 00:31:46 I would like to try out the SD-Card slot Feb 29 00:31:54 Oh and that dang eMMC bootloader. Feb 29 00:32:00 Did anyone tell you about that issue? Feb 29 00:32:21 what issue? Feb 29 00:32:37 W/out pushing the S2 button at boot, the bootloader on the eMMC holds "power" to call itself over SD Card. Feb 29 00:32:46 You can erase the eMMC. Feb 29 00:32:54 That should take care of it. Feb 29 00:33:56 ===> W/out pushing the S2 button at boot, the bootloader on the eMMC holds "power" to call itself over SD Card. <=== Don't understand Feb 29 00:35:05 I'm half Polish, explain Feb 29 00:35:30 Oh. Feb 29 00:35:32 Okay. Feb 29 00:35:56 There is at boot, the bootloader, a bootable instance for the BBB. Feb 29 00:36:04 Right. Feb 29 00:36:47 So, if this older, "out-of-date" bootloader is booting the board w/ older info, some issues may arise. Feb 29 00:37:05 Don't you have to uncomment that last line in the boot folder file Feb 29 00:37:27 Oh. Yea. You could. Please hold. I will get the link. Feb 29 00:38:21 I am listening to 1920's Charleston Swing Band. Feb 29 00:39:17 Oh. Feb 29 00:39:26 The link is no longer valid. Feb 29 00:39:39 And Quickstep Vs Charleston Feb 29 00:39:44 I looked at it and the info. is not there. I must have heard it from someone in here. Feb 29 00:40:18 @zmatt told me about the bootloader and I got directed about it on the google groups site too. Feb 29 00:40:44 So... Feb 29 00:40:53 hmm what? Feb 29 00:41:16 Hey, @zmatt: Is it not correct? Feb 29 00:41:30 Look at uEnv.txt in /boot Feb 29 00:41:58 S2 button during boot or erasing the first 10 mb of the eMMC will provide the correct bootloader for the kernel. Feb 29 00:42:01 set_: "W/out pushing the S2 button at boot, the bootloader on the eMMC holds "power" to call itself over SD Card." ... I'm deeply impressed at how confusing your attempt to explain this is Feb 29 00:42:14 Thank you. Feb 29 00:43:01 @zmatt: You know I have a difficult time articulating things in chat, e.g. at least well enough to make you understand. Feb 29 00:43:02 Oh, power as in authority not power in volts Feb 29 00:43:09 KenUnix: what he's trying to say is: when booting from SD card, beware that weird issues may arise if there's a (sufficiently serious) version mismatch between the bootloader on eMMC and the linux system on SD card Feb 29 00:43:14 Right! Feb 29 00:43:31 Right. Feb 29 00:43:49 It will give your board the he-be-gee-bees. Feb 29 00:44:26 these may be avoided by bypassing the bootloader on eMMC, which can be done temporarily by powering on while holding down the S2 button (you can let go once any led turns on, the effect persists across reboots until the board is power-cycled again) or by wiping the bootloader from eMMC (or wiping eMMC entirely) Feb 29 00:44:44 the issue won't arise if eMMC and SD card have images of similar age Feb 29 00:44:59 So, you can use an updated image on both the SD and eMMC or use the S2 button. Or...that last part to what @zmatt typed out. Feb 29 00:45:16 Well I downloaded the images you put me onto. You said check and uncomment the last line in uEnv.txt so flasher is onvoked, yes? Feb 29 00:45:27 generally speaking I'd recommend just reflashing eMMC and booting from it though Feb 29 00:45:27 yes Feb 29 00:45:43 at least I think it's the last line... it has something with "flasher" in it Feb 29 00:45:54 I will past it. Feb 29 00:45:59 paste Feb 29 00:46:55 Yea, it's the last line. And I still have to use S2? Feb 29 00:47:05 https://pastebin.com/rUc4K62s Feb 29 00:47:09 KenUnix: with "the images you put me onto" you mean bone-debian-9.9-iot-armhf-2019-08-03-4gb.img.xz I presume? Feb 29 00:47:23 es Feb 29 00:47:27 yes Feb 29 00:48:10 depends on what's on eMMC. at the very least it'll never hurt to force SD boot by powering on with S2 held down, but often it's not necessary unless the eMMC contents is really weird or really ancient Feb 29 00:49:15 set_ that link says you need dostools and rsync? Feb 29 00:49:45 99% sure those are installed by default Feb 29 00:50:10 zmatt, I have a new external 5V p/S good idea to use with flashing & burning Feb 29 00:50:29 actually dostools isn't installed by default, but it's also not necessary Feb 29 00:50:58 so that comment is outdated Feb 29 00:51:20 you don't need to do anything other than uncomment the line Feb 29 00:51:37 That last line is the one to uncomment: #cmdline=init=/opt/scripts/tools/eMMC/init-eMMC-flasher-v3.sh Feb 29 00:51:40 yep Feb 29 00:52:30 I like Donna Summers music Feb 29 00:53:23 eMMC! Feb 29 00:53:56 eMMc what Feb 29 00:54:13 Oh. I thought now you wanted to use the eMMC instead of your SD Cards. Feb 29 00:54:43 sub-1GHz! Feb 29 00:54:52 No, when upgrading or install a new release Feb 29 00:55:02 Oh. Feb 29 00:55:11 Are you going to make new images? Feb 29 00:55:49 upgrading, No. As it will wipe out what's on eMMc Feb 29 00:56:18 If so, there is a neat script on image making at https://www.digikey.com/eewiki/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black. Feb 29 00:56:30 zmatt, Does BBB support apt dist-upgrade or is this too much to ask? Feb 29 00:56:49 KenUnix: depends on how much crap is installed vs how much free space is left Feb 29 00:57:18 I update beaglebones quite regularly without problems, but I don't have a ton of crap installed and plenty of free space :) Feb 29 00:57:39 (and updating regularly avoids having a huge amount of updates to install at once, which requires more temporary space) Feb 29 00:58:43 Is there a general rule of thumb space to start with? yea, apt upgrade should not kill you. Feb 29 01:00:16 well, apt (dist-)upgrade will tell you "Need to get ... MB of archives" and "After this operation, ... MB of additional disk space" Feb 29 01:00:34 adding those together should still be less than the amount of free space (with some safety margin) Feb 29 01:00:53 *of aditional disk space will be used Feb 29 01:01:08 set, I went to get link and got nothing but ��T�XI���l�b���^�ٗl"����S'R�����S7C@~�f�L[@�X�(r��I \ � Feb 29 01:01:29 digikey.com link? Feb 29 01:01:58 just double click. Feb 29 01:01:59 zmatt, on BBB after upgrade are the previous files automatically deleted? Feb 29 01:02:06 (if it expects to use less after the upgrade, then just make sure there's enough space for the archives it needs to download, with sufficient safety margin) Feb 29 01:02:52 KenUnix: apt (or more accurately dpkg) will remove files when upgrading/replacing packages Feb 29 01:02:59 That is a good question. For instance, if I upgrade my kernel, are the old files still there? Feb 29 01:03:04 I say yes. Feb 29 01:03:10 the downloaded archives should be removed once the entire upgrade is complete Feb 29 01:03:29 I have looked in /boot and found my old kernel is still in that dir. Feb 29 01:03:30 kernel won't get automatically updated, but if you manually update it the previous kernel will not be automatically removed Feb 29 01:03:39 Okay. Feb 29 01:04:17 you need to remove it with e.g. sudo apt-get purge linux-image-VESION Feb 29 01:04:23 *VERSION Feb 29 01:04:38 Okay. Feb 29 01:04:43 Thank you for that info. Feb 29 01:05:57 set_, no good I had to go to https://www.digikey.com/eewiki/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black Feb 29 01:06:39 Okay. Feb 29 01:06:47 I thought that was the link I posted. Feb 29 01:08:23 I had over three upgraded kernels and other info. that took up too much space. Feb 29 01:08:35 Now, I have one on this image. Phew. Feb 29 01:10:20 over 75MB of space! Feb 29 01:23:38 set, The link you listed has a stray '.' at the end Feb 29 01:27:04 Oh. Feb 29 01:27:07 Okay. Feb 29 01:27:10 That is odd. Feb 29 01:27:23 Well, I am glad it did not infect you. Feb 29 01:27:29 Well, your computer. Feb 29 01:28:16 is there a way to clear history on the BBB? Feb 29 01:29:34 history -c? Feb 29 01:29:53 oh yea! Feb 29 01:31:40 What's the command to clear log files? Feb 29 01:33:24 there's not really a specific command for that... log files should normally get rotated automatically Feb 29 01:34:05 personally I also prefer getting rid of rsyslog and persistent journal, and just use runtime journal (stored in ram) to avoid unnecessary eMMC writes Feb 29 01:35:28 but basically, I think anything in /var/log other than "btmp", "lastlog", and "wtmp" can be safely deleted. those three files should however not be deleted Feb 29 01:36:50 I cannot read my btmp file b/c of permissions. I am the sudoer! Feb 29 01:37:47 I have no access to my own logs and what is the reason for this method? Feb 29 01:38:10 set_: those files aren't really logs anyway, but root most definitely has access to them so you're probably doing something wrong Feb 29 01:38:19 beware however that they contain binary data Feb 29 01:38:25 Oh. Feb 29 01:38:26 Okay. Feb 29 01:38:28 Nice. Feb 29 01:39:00 I have no idea why those files are in /var/log rather than /var/lib or something, probably some sort of historical mistake that can no longer be fixed Feb 29 01:39:10 Ha. Feb 29 01:39:20 Oops, they did it again? Feb 29 01:40:30 Powered up new BBB and it's space free is 240,564 MB Feb 29 01:40:46 oof Feb 29 01:41:07 G's! Feb 29 01:41:18 just in case, can you try "sudo apt-get clean" ? Feb 29 01:41:45 I now see what I did to SD-card slot. Mangled some pins Feb 29 01:41:54 impressive Feb 29 01:46:01 OK. Now have 242,084 MB but lots of space used in /var/log 9.6M Feb 29 01:47:02 I mean, 9.6M isn't negligible but it's still not *that* much Feb 29 01:47:38 Can I look at CS-card by inserting without booting? Feb 29 01:48:07 however this may help: Feb 29 01:48:10 sudo apt-get purge firmware-am57xx-opencl-monitor ti-opencl libtiopencl1 ipumm-dra7xx-installer ti-ipc-dra7xx vpdma-dra7xx-installer ocl-icd-libopencl1 ti-c6000-cgt-v8.2.x-installer bb-bbai-firmare firmware-iwlwifi && sudo apt-get --purge autoremove Feb 29 01:49:24 SD-card you mean? sure, you can just insert it and mount it.. just be careful to remove it again before the next boot (especially if the sd card contains a flasher) Feb 29 01:49:49 sudo mkdir -p /mnt/sd && sudo mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /mnt/sd Feb 29 01:49:56 leme give it a try Feb 29 01:57:23 Now I see the issue. with bbb in case SD-card does not easily seat or release while outside caes is ok. Feb 29 01:58:34 oh I've never felt the inclination to put a BBB in a case Feb 29 01:58:58 at most I've sometimes given them little feet Feb 29 02:00:16 Yes, well having conductive things on my tablw I thought it was best Feb 29 02:00:54 (or in one instance not-so-little feet to be able to use the jtag connector on its belly... https://liktaanjeneus.nl/barebone.jpg ) Feb 29 02:02:18 Nice Feb 29 02:03:50 Zapped Feb 29 02:03:57 ? Feb 29 02:06:59 Zoinks. Feb 29 02:07:03 Keep trying. Feb 29 02:13:42 zmatt: how much do you use the JTAG? Feb 29 02:14:15 I don't. that setup was for doing some baremetal stuff but I haven't done any in ages Feb 29 02:32:50 Well I managed to insert and remove the SD-card in the case but it went flying across the room somewhere... Feb 29 02:33:30 haha, I'm going to pretend that never happened to me Feb 29 02:33:56 Those things are tin Feb 29 02:34:01 Those things are tiny Feb 29 02:34:19 they sure are, and the spring-loaded eject mechanism of the card slot can make a great sd card launcher Feb 29 02:34:21 That's why they call them Micro SD :D Feb 29 02:35:22 I like that a card launcher. But while in I was able to mount and read it. Feb 29 02:36:00 it's hard to believe those go up to 256G now too. Feb 29 02:36:40 Those China-men are creative even with coronavirus Feb 29 02:37:20 We as a country have got to bring back manufacturing. xmatt excluded Feb 29 02:37:37 We as a country have got to bring back manufacturing. zmatt excluded NL Feb 29 02:38:45 It's all about the $ Feb 29 02:39:19 GenTooMan: there are 1TB microSD cards available, though they're hideously expensive Feb 29 02:39:52 I found the card it was on the floor about 5 feet away Feb 29 02:39:56 https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/memory-cards/sandisk-extreme-uhs-i-microsd#SDSQXA1-1T00-AN6MA Feb 29 02:41:13 KenUnix: pfft, that's a rookie distance Feb 29 02:41:21 you can launch 'em much further than that Feb 29 02:42:13 I imagine the hideous part is no understatement. What they heck would you use such a huge SD card for? It's life span would be horrible. Feb 29 02:42:21 Ha. I went looking using my walker wheeling around Feb 29 02:44:30 $359 bucks! Feb 29 02:44:40 $259 bucks! Feb 29 02:45:41 It's almost as check as a HD. The only issue is the HD will last longer. :D Feb 29 02:46:12 check == cheap ... ahh well. Feb 29 02:47:17 Buy a nice SSD and turn your BBB into a NAS Feb 29 02:47:29 lol Feb 29 02:47:56 Why funny? Feb 29 02:48:26 the BBB has strengths and weaknesses... the weaknesses include about everything you want for a NAS Feb 29 02:49:08 ok well i don't think a rpi is much better Feb 29 02:49:20 there's no way to attach storage with good performance and it only has 100Mbps ethernet Feb 29 02:49:55 it's possible the rpi is even worse, not sure... don't have any experience with the rpi family Feb 29 02:50:28 well when i was in CT my old nas was synology box at 10mb eth. Feb 29 02:51:10 I mean, anything can make a great nas if you set your standards low enough ;) Feb 29 02:51:54 well back then i had a 486 mini-tower w/ real crt Feb 29 02:52:14 and 2 jazz drives Feb 29 02:52:43 scsi yea Feb 29 02:52:57 adaptec controller Feb 29 02:53:01 attaching storage will stlil be a problem... the musb driver on the bbb is really pretty shit. they even disabled DMA, apparently it somehow managed to make things slower, if I understand correctly Feb 29 02:53:47 so usb transfers cause a ton of cpu load Feb 29 02:54:00 well what kinds of things do you do with bbb? Feb 29 02:54:57 scsi = skuzzy Feb 29 02:55:36 dma interrupts windows 3.1 drivers all that crap Feb 29 02:56:16 Yeah.. SCSI still exists and is used on high end drives using the SATA interface. Feb 29 02:56:18 internet, not invented yet Feb 29 02:56:23 we use them in our products (which are active speakers), they primarily have a management role (programming and controlling the DSP, allowing control via a web interface and app I think) Feb 29 02:56:42 scsi protocol is still used in many places Feb 29 02:56:55 usb mass storage is also basically scsi tunneled over usb Feb 29 02:57:34 bbb fir active speakers, wow. Feb 29 02:58:19 back then you had these buge cables, bus terminators, etc. Feb 29 02:58:32 yeah I remember 'em **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 29 02:59:59 2020