**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 01 02:59:57 2020 May 01 15:22:21 Anyone know if the spidev-numbering changed at some point, or is maybe unstable? I have a BBG running stretch that has /dev/spidev1.x and spidev2.x (where spidev1 seems to be enabled by BB-SPIDEV0-00A0.dtbo), and one with a recent Buster that has spidev0.x and spidev1.x (which seems to make more sense, but my application is now using the wrong spidev...) May 01 15:44:27 Seems these labels indeed changed, and new /dev/spi/x.x symlinks were added which should be stable. Found a mention here: https://github.com/adafruit/adafruit-beaglebone-io-python/issues/263 May 01 15:45:59 Still not entirely sure why the board that started my investigation didn't work (it actually looks like my application opens up the wrong device, but I would have sworn it worked when I put this board in a drawer a few months ago), but maybe I removed the SD card without writing to EMMC or something. Oh well. May 01 21:09:42 i want to start messing around with hacking on the low level stuff, like, u-boot level, pre-kernel. im thinking about grabbing an x-15... would an x-15 allow me to do stuff like that? May 01 21:09:55 for example, say i want to hack around with the boot loader, firmware, whatever May 01 21:10:40 im not sure what that entails, as im new to that still kinda. but i feel like the beagleboard x-15 might be a good device to start with. does the x-15 have all the connectivity to allow for that? May 01 21:15:32 any of the beagleboard variants would allow tinkering with the bootloader May 01 21:15:56 though you probably want to be sure to only install the bootloader to removable media in that case May 01 21:16:14 much easier to recover a broken bootloader by swaping out the media and fixing it May 01 21:17:03 the x-15 is the fastest, but for just learning how bootloaders work, is overkill, though May 01 21:17:22 big price difference :) May 01 21:18:13 vagrantc: i also want to play with gpio, but i noticed that the black has gpio pins, and the x-15 doesnt seem to have those pins... how do i access gpio on the x-15? May 01 21:18:40 does the x-15 have every capability that, e.g. the black does (for example, the gpio difference i mentioned) May 01 21:22:26 dinosomething: https://elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBoard-X15#How_many_general_purpose_I.2FO_pins_are_there.3F May 01 21:23:24 vagrantc: "high speed surface mount" im not sure what that means.. May 01 21:23:31 me neither :) May 01 21:23:36 i have a breadboard, and wires and stuff for that May 01 21:23:52 im trying to figure out if like, i can utilize that to hit the gpio, or if i need to buy some adapter? May 01 21:24:14 the beagleboneai is basically an x-15 with a few less features May 01 21:25:09 and maybe has connectors more familiar to you May 01 21:25:20 a little less ram, no sata May 01 21:25:22 ok im gonna probably just grab an x-15 then. im wondering what other kind of equipment i might need though. for example, for an early serial console, on the pi i had this USB adapter that connected to the GPIO pins which were designated for the UART May 01 21:26:28 you might be able to use the same adapter, but you'll definitely want serial May 01 21:27:16 vagrantc: well, thats the thing... the adapter i have works just fine with the breadboard kit's jumper wires... but when i look at the x-15's gpio stuff, the "high speed surface mount", im not sure if those wires will plug into that :/ May 01 21:27:26 can anyone here explain what high speed surface mount means? lol May 01 21:27:32 dinosomething: why specifically the x-15? nothing you've mentioned so far couldn't be handled by the beagleboneblack or pocketbeagle even? May 01 21:30:22 dinosomething: you've basically picked the one board that doesn't have the connectors you want May 01 21:39:39 blathijs: if your bb-customizations packages is uptodate you'll have symlinks in /dev/spi/ that are stable May 01 21:40:40 dinosomething: baremetal programming is definitely easier on the am335x (beaglebone black) than the am572x (bb-x15 / bbai) May 01 21:41:21 vagrantc: haha, idk, maybe the masochist in me :( May 01 21:41:29 dinosomething: ditto for gpio (because pinmux is a hassle on bbx15/bbai) May 01 21:41:30 zmatt: vagrantc ok okkkkk ill jsut get the black lol May 01 21:41:42 and if you physically want to connect stuff, the bbx15 is annoying because of its connectors May 01 21:42:05 zmatt: any chance you can also suggest a couple items i should scoop up too? e.g. a usb adapter so i can have early as possible serial console, or a little jtag kit if i want to play with that May 01 21:42:26 vagrantc: one of the reasons i wanted to go with the x-15 is beacuse i also want to understand pcie better, on a low level May 01 21:42:52 jtag on the BBB requires soldering on the jtag header May 01 21:43:11 zmatt: oof May 01 21:43:35 well, umm May 01 21:43:48 i guess jtag is outside the scope of what i want to do anyway May 01 21:44:14 i guess i want to play around at the level that u-boot is at May 01 21:44:27 but i do want pcie, and nvme, etc... so i can understand those things on a low level May 01 21:44:34 something to view the debug console (e.g. a usb to 3.3v serial converter) is definitely useful May 01 21:44:54 zmatt: does the x15 have that easily accessible? May 01 21:45:08 not really, it's somewhere on the expansion header connectors May 01 21:45:27 zmatt: so what does someone buy in order to connect to the expansion headers? May 01 21:45:49 a breakout board of some type? that is, with the design of the x15, what is intended to plug into those gpio "high speed surface mounts" ? May 01 21:46:09 good question, I'm not sure if the full am572x EVM (of which the bbx15 is the baseboard) has a pcie slot May 01 21:46:21 th evm is expensive as hell though May 01 21:46:53 ahhhh May 01 21:46:57 so the x15 is intended for like May 01 21:47:08 people at companies to use, to develop stuff May 01 21:47:30 I'm honestly not sure who the x15 is for, lol May 01 21:47:41 haha May 01 21:47:46 it's definitely not very convenient for experimentation May 01 21:47:56 ah, i misspoke earlier, theres no nvme on x15 May 01 21:48:24 but theres no i2c, uart, or spi on the black lol May 01 21:48:35 i could just connect to the uart for a uart console i guess May 01 21:48:37 ehm yes there is May 01 21:48:41 the BBB has all of those May 01 21:49:08 and nvme is a protocol on top of pcie afaik May 01 21:49:39 oh, my bad, this page says no "m.2 nvme" May 01 21:49:43 not "no nvme" May 01 21:49:58 yeah, no M.2 connector May 01 21:50:01 i guess if i wanted the x15's uart, id probably have to get it over gpio anyway May 01 21:50:27 if theres no uart on the black, then how is early serial console accessed? May 01 21:50:29 "gpio" and "uart" are mutually exclusive. gpio means you read/modify a pin directly by software May 01 21:50:46 the BBB has iirc 5 uarts, one of which (uart0) is the serial console May 01 21:50:49 the older x-15 had headers for the serial ... but removed on newer versions? May 01 21:51:11 the x15 debug console is accessible via a microusb connector May 01 21:51:51 zmatt: but that would mean that usb drivers would need to be loaded for that console yea? so, for a kernel, i couldnt get early console May 01 21:52:06 no it uses an on-board usb to serial converter May 01 21:52:13 so for the processor it's just a uart May 01 21:52:59 for the various functions (e.g. i2c, uart, spi) on the beaglebone black, see the P9 and P8 tabs of https://goo.gl/Jkcg0w May 01 21:54:05 oh never mind, I'm confused! May 01 21:54:20 the bbx15 just has a 5-pin serial header like the BBB May 01 21:54:25 is there some weird lock on the beagleboardai microsd? can't get the microSD out of the slot ... it ejects, but is snagged on something May 01 21:54:26 I wonder what board I'm confusing it with ethen May 01 21:54:32 vagrantc: press May 01 21:54:40 actually, no there's no lock May 01 21:55:00 use more force, but not too much May 01 21:55:13 normally you press it down to eject it May 01 21:55:26 which triggers a spring-loaded mechanism May 01 21:55:38 but you can pull it out even is non-ejected state May 01 21:55:41 well, i pressed it in, and it sprung out *most* of the way May 01 21:56:14 if you still can't remove it then maybe there's something weird with the card that's snagging something May 01 21:56:36 eventually wiggled it out May 01 21:56:39 normally if you're not careful you can get the ejection mechanism to eject your sd card half way across the room May 01 21:57:07 yeah, had that happen now and again May 01 22:24:42 hrm. u-boot 2020.04 am57xx_evm not booting on beagleboneai :/ May 01 22:24:57 * vagrantc wonders how many patches rcn is maintaining these days May 01 22:25:13 have the device offsets changed? May 01 22:25:43 sector 256 for MLO, 768 for u-boot.img ? May 01 22:32:09 hrm. given that it reads from the emmc to determine what board it is ... maybe my board doesn't have the right magic strings May 01 23:00:10 blathijs: Are you still around? I am asking b/c I read what you typed earlier today. The older images, if you did not update to the current images that are recommended, give issues. May 01 23:00:14 I typed that to say this... May 01 23:00:56 I had a bunch of server source that would run fine. It was running fine until the new images came out. I think people are updating/upgrading exactly what they are working on currently and not what is left in the past. May 01 23:00:59 That is all. May 01 23:02:16 I had to update/upgrade to an existing image/kernel to get my server source working again. It was odd. One second the server worked and then the next second, it was broken. May 01 23:16:15 anyone recommend a good source for where they get their electronics and whatnot? i see there is arrow, mouser, digikey... May 01 23:27:35 All of them! May 01 23:28:21 Whomever has the same BOM that is "USA" mfg. stuff for the cheaper price. Right? May 02 01:20:55 Evening Guys 8) 8) May 02 01:23:00 Is it safe to say Angstrom no longer comes on BB that it's Debian now? elinux still shows AngstromX-P X-P May 02 01:25:16 yes May 02 01:25:39 you can build angstro, though May 02 01:26:00 GenTooMan - Thanks for your help the other night May 02 01:27:10 Also says - Dedicated single mini-USB 2.0 client port (no additional 2-port hub) May 02 01:27:29 What 2 port hub? May 02 01:27:56 1 Host and 1 client rite? May 02 01:30:11 KenUnix: angstrom is completely dead since 2015 May 02 01:30:45 The 256KB version is the BBWhite rite? May 02 01:30:51 MB May 02 01:31:31 Sorry I grew up with 64KB Trash-80 May 02 01:32:21 and the device port on the beaglebone white connected to an integrated hub with two downstream ports: one going to the am335x and one going to an ft2232h for the serial console and jtag May 02 01:33:06 this has nothing to do with the host port, that's a completely separate usb controller of the am335x May 02 01:34:11 I am trying to clean this up to be more current : https://elinux.org/BeagleBone_Community Down to BBB Differences May 02 01:37:04 the BBB has an AM3358, only some early prototypes used the (X)AM3359 because the AM3358 wasn't available yet, although there's no functional difference in practice (since the additional functionality of the AM3358 is not compatible with the beaglebone schematic) May 02 01:37:42 (I'm seeing some blah about the AM3359 on that page) May 02 01:39:23 and debug serial/jtag isn't available on the "expansion headers" (which generally refers to P9 and P8), it's two separate dedicated headers (with the jtag one being unplaced) May 02 01:39:57 I updated many of the sections. You will notice the date under each area I modified or added to. I verifyed that each item is available or it's marked (Retired). I see mention of the power cape but can't any available May 02 01:40:21 I don't understand why this page has a section about usb hubs May 02 01:40:23 unplaced? May 02 01:41:13 unplaced as in, the jtag connected isn't soldered to the board, there's just pads for one (on the bottom side) but you'd need to obtain a jtag header and solder it on yourself if you want jtag May 02 01:41:16 I didn't put it there, but it's up to date now May 02 01:41:37 Got you May 02 01:41:45 I'm not saying you put it there, I just glanced at the page, not at the revision log May 02 01:42:05 I'm also puzzled what any of this has to do with "BeagleBone Community" May 02 01:42:23 on a wiki page with that name I'd just expect information about... the beaglebone community May 02 01:42:30 Maybe because the BBB did away with 2 USB ports May 02 01:42:31 most of this info looks like it's redundant May 02 01:42:52 the beaglebone never had more than one usb host port May 02 01:42:58 afaik May 02 01:43:16 Client, ritr May 02 01:43:20 yeah, the beaglebone white only had a single host port May 02 01:43:21 Client, rite May 02 01:43:56 the device port is something completely separate and not relevant here May 02 01:48:07 OK look again I made those changes May 02 01:50:44 That backlight king isn't valid is it? May 02 01:50:56 That backlight ting isn't valid is it? May 02 01:51:55 Any source for the power cape? May 02 02:02:02 I think the power cape has info. on Newark/Element14. May 02 02:02:14 Or are you two talking about the GHI one? May 02 02:04:24 PowerBar "Micro Cape" May 02 02:04:45 Aw. Yea. I saw that one. Look on Element14 or I can go look again. May 02 02:05:10 Look again . I could find no stock. May 02 02:05:31 Okay. I will go and look. May 02 02:06:31 This is the one being pushed http://andicelabs.com May 02 02:07:50 https://andicelabs.com/shop/andicelabs/beaglebone-power-cape/ May 02 02:11:28 I fixed the link May 02 02:12:40 Well, I ended up this time w/ ends meat and no link. May 02 02:13:03 Hmm. I did find a neat LiPo section on Element14 for the BBB from 2013. May 02 02:13:12 I must have misunderstood. May 02 02:14:01 LiPo cape? anybody use May 02 02:15:34 It is not a cape, it is actually a twin through-hole section on the board for batteries. May 02 02:15:53 It seems to be near the Barrel Jack. May 02 02:18:15 KenUnix: The BBBlue uses a LiPo too. May 02 02:23:23 OK I'll leave that alone. I did update the power cape entry to go to the rite page May 02 02:23:56 I'm amazed how many things are wrong May 02 02:24:27 Is the powerCape or Mini still produced? May 02 02:25:16 es but andies is out of stock May 02 02:27:03 Here is another mucked up one Intelligent Power Switch May 02 02:27:56 What the heck is this https://uk.pi-supply.com/products/pi-supply-raspberry-pi-power-switch May 02 02:29:25 Oh. May 02 02:29:26 Okay. May 02 02:29:55 I just went to andicelabs and they said out of stock. Their silkscreen, from what their site states, is incorrect. May 02 02:30:05 12v max! May 02 02:30:56 oh yea brb May 02 02:31:20 Okay. May 02 02:32:19 It says (3VDC to 12VDC). how does 5v come out from 3v ? May 02 02:33:08 I just looked at the mini. The site said the silkscreen stated up to ____v but it was incorrect b/c it, the mini powerbar can only accept up to 12v. May 02 02:34:12 Check this again: https://elinux.org/BeagleBone_Community#PowerBar_.22Micro_Cape.22 May 02 02:35:30 KenUnix: I don't know the context, but generally for converting 12V to 5V you'd use a switching power supply anyway, and a switching power supply can be designed to be able to perform boost conversion (i.e. from lower to higher voltage) as well as buck conversion (from higher to lower) May 02 02:36:27 KenUnix: The mini is not the beaglebone-power-cape. It is the miniaturized version of that cape, right? May 02 02:36:43 Well OK then. This section Intelligent Power Switch is goofed up? Using a Pi power card May 02 02:37:12 Dunno May 02 02:38:13 I did not check the UK link yet. May 02 02:38:22 Oh! May 02 02:38:27 What about BELA? May 02 02:38:37 They still have a neat cape. May 02 02:38:48 Music hoarders should love that one. May 02 02:40:50 KenUnix: the link in the PowerBar section links to the wrong product page May 02 02:40:50 I ordered one! Expensive...yes. Fun w/ C++ and music...yes. Knowning that I will get to post some funny expression once in my lifetime on audiophiles...yea boy! May 02 02:41:35 @zmatt: Are you discussing his post on elinux.org? May 02 02:41:42 anyway, yeah its product page says it's a buck/boost May 02 02:41:59 B/c that brings one to the regular powercape. May 02 02:42:45 Which part? Power or the AndiceLabs link? May 02 02:43:15 elinux.org May 02 02:43:26 the link to the page on andicelabs.com points to the powercape page rather than the powerbar May 02 02:44:14 I think they just took down the powerbar link. May 02 02:44:18 nope May 02 02:44:21 oh? May 02 02:44:24 https://andicelabs.com/beaglebone-powerbar/ May 02 02:44:27 Send it over rover! May 02 02:44:29 Oh. Okay. May 02 02:45:30 (it also has a page in the shop, but like all the other stuff it's out of stock and that page has no links to the schematics and stuff) May 02 02:45:31 THat is wordpress now? May 02 02:45:40 zmatt, thanks it's fixed May 02 02:46:05 Aw. I got what happened. I was looking on their site...oh well. May 02 02:46:22 I just followed the link from the "product pages" menu at the top of every site page May 02 02:47:14 Oh. I went to andicelabs and I guess I was in their shop or something. May 02 02:47:23 The Andice link will get you schematics down on their page May 02 02:47:27 That or they are changing info. as we type. May 02 02:48:20 That is awful nice of them, i.e. to get the schematics out. I think this is why BBB.io peoples must like 'em. Open Source? May 02 02:48:54 set_ OK where is BELA ? Yea just changed May 02 02:49:05 I think pretty much every cape includes schematics? May 02 02:49:13 bela.io May 02 02:49:22 Nice! May 02 02:49:24 in fact I'd never want to buy a cape that doesn't have schematics May 02 02:49:31 That is smart. May 02 02:49:57 but I'm not sure if I've ever came across one that doesn't May 02 02:50:26 At first, the BBGW had a problem w/ rendering of the schematic? May 02 02:50:41 I remember...I had to go to the Seeed Studio people directly. May 02 02:50:55 ? May 02 02:51:02 They helped when they realized that the schematic rendered incorrectly on their site. May 02 02:51:25 Or...that could have been the Motor Bridge Cape and not the actual board I put it on. May 02 02:51:36 It was a while back. "Just recalling good times." May 02 02:51:58 That BELA stuff is expensive https://shop.bela.io/ May 02 02:52:05 I know! May 02 02:52:24 But...they put out stuff outside of just their Cape for the BBB and pocket beagle. May 02 02:53:06 Like, source for making music on YouTube for the Cape for the BBB and their long list of ideas on github/website. May 02 02:53:26 Maybe I shouls add it to the audio capes list May 02 02:53:39 I found a recent article on this cape. Updated last month on youtube and posted on beagleboard.org's twitter feed. May 02 02:53:50 Yes! May 02 02:53:52 Audio! May 02 02:54:43 That is why I got it. I thought the person sounded sound and not stressed when discussing his invovlement w/ the Cape on Youtube. May 02 02:55:10 Then, the github.com page for them and their site threw me overboard. "My new love?" May 02 02:56:01 @zmatt: Have you heard of Mims III? May 02 02:56:19 He is a fellow that has produced some books and loves science. May 02 02:56:41 you mean Forest Mims the 3rd May 02 02:56:50 GenTooMan! May 02 02:56:53 Yes. May 02 02:56:53 a long long time ago he's probably dead. May 02 02:56:57 Oh? May 02 02:57:10 I thought he was researching a volcano somewhere. May 02 02:57:11 4 decades ago he wrote books LOL May 02 02:57:18 Oh. May 02 02:57:29 Let me go and check again. May 02 02:57:37 still pretty straight forward and decent basics May 02 02:57:43 Thank you. May 02 02:58:21 rat shack published his books so you might find them in PDF form somewhere. May 02 02:58:26 set_ added https://elinux.org/BeagleBone_Community#Audio May 02 02:59:20 http://www.forrestmims.org/ May 02 02:59:28 GenTooMan: Look at the first sentence. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 02 02:59:58 2020