**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 25 02:59:57 2020 Oct 25 14:30:14 how easy is it to brick a bb with a bad overlay Oct 25 14:30:19 what are the things to look out for Oct 25 15:03:20 like what does pin_mux mode 14 mean is that I the trm for the bbai Oct 25 16:46:17 it is nearly impossible to brick a bb, you'd have to somehow cause actual hardware damage Oct 25 16:46:35 nearly impossible through software configuration mistakes I mean Oct 25 16:46:58 for the bbai mode 14 is gpio Oct 25 16:47:17 (for all pins which support gpio mode, which - unlike the bbb - is not all pins!) Oct 25 17:00:42 ok Oct 25 17:01:12 I am trying to set up the config tool so I can map the right pins supposedly that is how you do it per the TRM Oct 25 17:01:38 what config tool? Oct 25 17:01:57 also, remind me why you are fiddling with a bbai? Oct 25 17:02:19 I'm pretty sure you already had plenty of complexity in your life with just the bbb Oct 25 17:03:04 yeah I am just messing with it since I had it and an lcd. This is good practice working with the TRM and the dt Oct 25 17:03:34 not really no, the AI is just a giant headache for pin configuration Oct 25 17:03:45 https://www.ti.com/tool/SYSCONFIG Oct 25 17:04:01 I'd strongly recommend being comfortable with DT _before_ touching the AI Oct 25 17:04:10 ok Oct 25 17:04:56 I thought this tool would do it Oct 25 17:05:21 and I'm not familiar with that specific tool but in general my experience with these tools is that they are not really helpful if you just want to configure some pins on a beaglebone Oct 25 17:05:33 great Oct 25 17:07:21 since you're basically setting things up for the entire system, the whole board, including everything that's already on the beaglebone itself Oct 25 17:07:46 and the output assumes you're creating a DT from scratch, not just adding a few customizations onto an existing one Oct 25 17:08:17 for the AI specifically there's also the problem that it will assume you're doing pin configuration by modifying and recompiling u-boot, not by using DT Oct 25 17:08:52 so it's horrendously more complex than almost any task you wanted to achieve in the first place Oct 25 17:09:05 yup sure sounds like it.... Oct 25 17:09:58 it's more for if you're designing a board from scratch Oct 25 17:12:54 so if I wanted to find out what this line means in the dts DRA7XX_CORE_IOPAD(0x379C, MUX_MODE14) Oct 25 17:12:58 where should I look Oct 25 17:13:07 in a world without zmatt Oct 25 17:13:10 lol Oct 25 17:13:16 the TRM Oct 25 17:13:36 i am pulling this off bbai dts for an lcd cape Oct 25 17:13:42 I think i have linked it to you before Oct 25 17:14:01 use of those hex constants is just appalling Oct 25 17:15:24 but its P8_03 Oct 25 17:15:35 https://github.com/beagleboard/BeagleBoard-DeviceTrees/blob/v4.19.x-ti-overlays/include/dt-bindings/board/am572x-bone-pins.h#L85 Oct 25 17:20:06 that bbai looks gorgeous Oct 25 17:20:20 Mattboone: another list of those constants: https://pastebin.com/vwn4m7Nf Oct 25 17:21:35 Mattboone: but again I feel like you're getting way ahead of yourself and are biting off more than you can chew... you should focus on getting your basic functionality working on the BB Oct 25 17:22:05 ok Oct 25 17:23:00 why did they make the bbai less user friendly Oct 25 17:23:13 seems like you are going in the wrong direction with this latest board Oct 25 17:23:17 unless I am missing something Oct 25 17:23:37 not much that I learn on the bbb transfers am i right ? Oct 25 17:24:01 part of it is due to the SoC itself being more annoying, and part of it is just because it's still very new and they're still actively working on making things easier to deal with Oct 25 17:24:44 once upon a time people using the BBB also often dealt with confusing chunks of DT configuration full of magic hex constants to achieve simple things Oct 25 17:25:02 lol Oct 25 17:28:05 which also means that if you focus on your core functionality first rather than a GUI that perhaps by the time your core functionality actually works, things will be simpler Oct 25 17:28:36 to port to the bbai, if that still seems like a good idea then Oct 25 17:28:56 true Oct 25 17:29:32 what was the problem again, you had a pin shortage when using lcd on the BBB ? I thought the final conclusion was that adequate pins were in fact available on the BBB Oct 25 17:30:15 yeah that is fine Oct 25 17:30:20 no problems there Oct 25 17:30:28 this was just purely messing around Oct 25 17:30:42 I eventually need to do that ring buffer thing Oct 25 17:30:46 but I am still reading about that Oct 25 17:30:50 before I dive in Oct 25 17:31:17 ah I see, you're just wasting your time with something neat but useless as a distraction from things that actually need to be worked on... I can relate to that Oct 25 17:31:31 yes Oct 25 17:31:40 procrastination at its finest Oct 25 17:32:11 py-uio includes a ringbuffer example, though with the pru side in assembly, not C Oct 25 17:32:41 I was fiddling with a C version but more important things wanted my attention Oct 25 17:34:28 ok this will be a good exercise for me Oct 25 17:34:28 trying to make a c version Oct 25 18:45:47 MattB0ne: added pru-examples/stream-c.py and pru-examples/fw-c/stream.cc Oct 25 18:46:30 feel free to try it yourself first, although I've also included a helpful error-diagnostic mechanism Oct 25 18:46:46 sweet! I was reading this is a standard tactic Oct 25 18:46:57 so it is helpful to know going forward Oct 25 18:47:13 I mean, yes, you could have read that from when I said it when I mentioned ringbuffers :P Oct 25 18:48:29 note that in both examples the message id is just a dummy payload used to double-check that the messages are transferred in-order without any being dropped.. plus I need *something* in them in the absence of useful payload Oct 25 18:49:51 and of course it's not necessary to treat "buffer full" as a fatal error on the pru side.. in your case you can just drop the datapoint Oct 25 18:51:39 you can optionally still include a sequence number so that on the python side you can immediately tell when datapoints have been dropped, or you can probably tell by the timestamp you include given that you're presumably sending messages periodically (every time the load cell sends a measurement?) Oct 25 18:57:38 I will give it a shot Oct 25 22:21:01 Did anyone ever see that funny source I put together for two stepper motors? Oct 25 22:21:21 I will be working on it since I have some new toys to goof w/. Oct 25 22:21:57 Anyway, add, retract, or deduce what you may, the source lives on! Oct 25 22:22:57 It was like if I put as input 700 or 800, the source would run the two steppers in specific ways/steps, i.e. either negative or positive. Oct 25 22:24:12 For now, I am trying to figure out how to put two steppers in motion for a drawing apparatus. I would like some funny drawings done for ole times sake. Oct 25 22:27:37 bbl Oct 25 23:00:27 Did anyone every figure out the i2c RTC .dtbo for the BBGG? Oct 25 23:00:51 why would that need a dtbo? Oct 25 23:02:12 the rtc is part of the board itself, and therefore already defined in its main dtb Oct 25 23:02:44 so linux should already be using it as its primary rtc for system time Oct 25 23:03:24 (i.e. if the rtc has a backup battery attached then the bbgg should keep its system date/time across power loss) Oct 25 23:06:38 Oh. Oct 25 23:06:51 Hmm. So, no source needed? Oct 25 23:07:04 nope, it should simply work out of the box Oct 25 23:07:11 Oh. Oct 25 23:07:12 Okay. Oct 25 23:07:48 Heh? That seems odd to me but can I use the RTC outside of keeping time onboard the board? Oct 25 23:08:10 For instance, like me using the Bot at a specific time when power goes out? Oct 25 23:08:12 ... keeping the time is the sole purpose of an rtc, it's what it's meant for Oct 25 23:08:25 ??? Oct 25 23:08:49 I understand that part but if I wanted to turn my bot on at 3:45 p.m, would the bot listen to that idea if the power is out and my RTC is up and running? Oct 25 23:09:12 Or...is that another story all together? Oct 25 23:09:46 how would it "turn on" if "the power is out" ? or do you mean it is in fact powered but shut down? Oct 25 23:10:58 Right. By battery. Oct 25 23:11:13 the battery is just for the rtc Oct 25 23:11:25 it does not power anything else Oct 25 23:11:52 (which is why typically a small 3V coin cell is used for this purpose) Oct 25 23:12:29 Okay. This is what I am getting at...w/ the power off, the RTC battery in place and working the RTC, would I need a set of source to read time and exploit that time in my code when the backup battery is then in place and needed? Oct 25 23:12:34 Does that make sense? Oct 25 23:12:38 no Oct 25 23:12:42 Fine. Oct 25 23:12:47 I will just use it as is. Oct 25 23:13:12 I thought I could use it like a time reference on the BBGG for when things need to take place. Oct 25 23:13:15 if the battery is in place, the rtc will simply keep the time even if the system is powered off Oct 25 23:13:26 Right. I get that part. Oct 25 23:13:29 so next time the system is powered on again, it will still know the date and time Oct 25 23:13:35 Okay. Oct 25 23:13:38 So, nothing more. Oct 25 23:13:43 Okay. Oct 25 23:13:53 unlike every other beaglebone which does not know the date/time after power loss and has to obtain that e.g. via the network Oct 25 23:15:44 Right. Okay. Oct 25 23:16:53 I thought like the RTC could let the BBGG know that it is 3:45 and then my bot could open the door at that time. Like, if I was to come home, lost the keys, and had to wait until 3:45 for the lock to unlock itself? Oct 25 23:17:09 I have no idea what you mean Oct 25 23:17:22 Okay. Okay. My issue is my issue. Oct 25 23:17:27 I understand. Oct 25 23:18:10 I need some more reading of older RTC instances. I keep seeing some ds1338 .dtbo files in the bb.org-overlays. Oct 25 23:18:36 So, that is b/c they are not attached to the board. Okay. Oct 25 23:18:37 your software can do whatever it wants based on system time, as long as the beaglebone is powered on (obviously, since otherwise your software can't possibly run) and the system time is configured right Oct 25 23:18:51 Okay. THank you, sir. Oct 25 23:18:58 I just wanted your input. Oct 25 23:19:08 an rtc just helps with the latter by making sure system time isn't lost on power loss Oct 25 23:19:25 That makes sense. You made sense out of what my question was geared towards. Right, right. Oct 25 23:19:37 and yes, if you add an external rtc to a beaglebone that doesn't already have one, you'd need to inform the system about it using an overlay Oct 25 23:19:45 Aw. Oct 25 23:19:47 Okay. Oct 25 23:19:58 but on the bbgg the rtc is an integrated part of the board, hence its declaration is an integrated part of its .dtb Oct 25 23:20:24 Ha. I was doing all sorts of external use source and .dtbo changes to make it work. It just works. Ha. Oct 25 23:20:43 No wonder I could not figure it out. It already works. Oops. Oct 25 23:20:58 Hahahhahah. That cracks me up. Oct 25 23:21:03 if I'm not mistaken some RTC hardware can have alarms set to power a board Oct 25 23:21:34 that can sometimes be the case Oct 25 23:21:37 Aw but not this one. This one powers the i2c RTC by 3v. Oct 25 23:21:48 So, no 5v here. Oct 25 23:22:07 set_: that has absolutely nothing to do with anything Oct 25 23:22:46 mm302: even assuming the rtc has alarms (it probably has, but I'm too lazy to check), its output simply goes to a gpio and not to the pmic hence it does not physically have the capability of powering on the system Oct 25 23:22:49 Well, if it was a 5v input that had some traces to the vcc input, it would. Oct 25 23:22:58 Oh. Oct 25 23:23:13 But, if it did, it would. Since it does not, it does not. Oct 25 23:24:03 Is it smart to bypass the PMIC to just give it juice or is that the only way to power on the BBB related boards? Oct 25 23:24:07 bit of an oversight, since there's really no use in connecting that output to a gpio Oct 25 23:24:25 set_: what on earth are oyu talking about Oct 25 23:24:34 you always power the board via the pmic Oct 25 23:24:40 always? Oct 25 23:24:48 No matter what? Oct 25 23:25:35 unless you're using discrete power supplies to power the AM335x but pretty much noone does that and it imposes all sorts of limitations (such as not being able to run faster than 500 MHz) Oct 25 23:25:50 So, the PMIC goes partially to the header pins and the SiP/SoC/whatever. Oct 25 23:25:54 true, I wasn't thinking about the bb, also to be honest using RTC to control power seems either a dump idea or a very advanced clever one (like a device not used interactively anymore) Oct 25 23:26:39 mm302: it sounds very useful for devices that e.g. only need to do something once per day and want to save power Oct 25 23:27:19 So, the interconnect is like a breaking point and that interconnect handles the transition of the 5v or 3.3v to and from the SiP/SoC? Oct 25 23:27:20 yes Oct 25 23:27:28 set_: ???? Oct 25 23:27:40 I am being quiet now. Oct 25 23:27:49 Sorry. I need to read that section again. Oct 25 23:29:19 set_: if you make a youtube video series on what you are trying to do, I guess it would be very interesting Oct 25 23:29:20 mm302: though if the rtc output is held low (until manual reset) after alarm rather than being pulsed low, then a direct connection to the pmic isn't possible anyway... unless the tps65217 has something like a powerhold input and I completely forgot about it Oct 25 23:29:47 holding the power button input low would not work: it would just power-cycle the board every 10 seconds Oct 25 23:31:07 never mind, this rtc doesn't even have any alarm function Oct 25 23:31:27 wtf is that output pin for then... Oct 25 23:32:22 I see... it can either be controlled manually via a register bit (how useful) or output a 512 Hz clock on it Oct 25 23:32:25 lol Oct 25 23:34:33 Hey. Oct 25 23:35:16 How would I test to see if I am using the correct pin for power? Continuity or just DC V? Oct 25 23:35:39 by making sure you are before applying power Oct 25 23:35:44 There are two pins. 50/50 chance I get it right but if I test it, I might... Oct 25 23:35:46 Ha. Oct 25 23:35:46 by checking documentation Oct 25 23:35:51 What docs? Oct 25 23:35:57 dunno, what are you talking about? Oct 25 23:36:03 I should put a doc in. Oct 25 23:36:18 The 3v coin cell leads/wires? Oct 25 23:36:28 for the RTC on the BBGG. Oct 25 23:36:55 or are they power neutral? Oct 25 23:37:20 Some of those circuits these days have neutral supplied v's. Oct 25 23:37:46 See, this is my issue. Oct 25 23:38:02 you mean which pin is + and which is -? good question, though the connector seems like the bigger problem Oct 25 23:38:15 I have one coin cell and it used to belong to the DMM. Oct 25 23:38:26 So, I cannot test w/ the DMM. See. Oct 25 23:38:43 I have the connector. You would would not believe it. Please hold for the link. Oct 25 23:38:56 wait, it's a 4-pin header? that's what the schematic says, though it didn't look 4-pin on a photo Oct 25 23:39:01 digi-key had some supplements. No. Two! Oct 25 23:39:12 Right. Just two pin header. Oct 25 23:40:12 https://forum.digikey.com/t/re-my-photo-and-a1250wv-s-02p/9434/7 Oct 25 23:40:28 I think that has all the info. I could find from some nice people at digikey. Oct 25 23:40:29 it does clearly have four pads, are the two on the sides just used for mechanical stabilization? the photo Oct 25 23:40:40 Oh. Oct 25 23:40:42 Wait. Oct 25 23:40:54 Yes. Oct 25 23:41:10 The two pads on the side are for stabilizing the header on the board. Oct 25 23:41:11 anyway, this photo clearly shows which pin is + (red) and which is - (black): https://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/BeagleBone-Green-Gateway.jpg Oct 25 23:41:47 That is awesome. Where did you find that photo? Oct 25 23:41:56 best would be to just find a battery like the one in that photo, with leads and correct connector already attached Oct 25 23:41:59 google Oct 25 23:42:06 Hmm. Google. Nice. Oct 25 23:42:39 I was reviewing the info. given by Seeed and digikey.com for their supplement connectors. Oct 25 23:43:05 B/c...those connectors only exist in India, I think. Oct 25 23:43:27 you should just ask where the bleep you're supposed to find that battery Oct 25 23:43:33 Ha. Oct 25 23:43:35 I should. Oct 25 23:43:46 I guess I can ask them. Oct 25 23:43:48 because getting the connector itself is almost certainly useless, you'd probably need a special crimping tool Oct 25 23:44:19 Well, now that I have a link. I got the connectors w/ the wires attached. I also got the wires w/ separate connectors. Oct 25 23:44:34 All, I have to do is attach the precrimped leads into the connectors. Oct 25 23:45:01 anyway, good luck with that, shame on seeed for not giving any info about this e.g. on the wiki, but hey what do you expect it's seeedf Oct 25 23:45:13 Seeed! Oct 25 23:45:41 Yeppers. I will try to track down that battery connector. Thank you for applying google to this issue. Oct 25 23:48:17 They have 2032 Li-Ion battery chargers. Nice to know. Yikes. Oct 26 00:01:17 Damn, bro. $8.00! Oct 26 00:01:23 Trippin' Oct 26 00:02:30 It is a 2032 w/ leads for soldering and it is wrapped in nylon. Blah. Oct 26 00:02:44 Trippin'. Okay. I am done for now. Oct 26 01:12:39 GenTooMan: I got the electroMechanical Typewriter to work! Oct 26 01:13:01 This sucker is so old fashioned, it scares me. My bots hold nothing to this contraption. Oct 26 01:20:20 I want a noisy teletype Oct 26 01:21:10 umm that's kind of sick teletypes were so loud that they had to make special rooms to house them or people would go deaf. Oct 26 01:21:44 they also weighed in at 1200lbs (my uncles was that much, definite museum piece) Oct 26 01:22:46 set_ I use to have a mechanical type writer without the electro worked with no batteries although you tended to drill the keys quite hard. Oct 26 01:26:59 Aw. Oct 26 01:27:01 Nice. Oct 26 01:27:27 This one just has the extra oomph provided by electricty. Oct 26 01:27:54 It is almost like a click happens and then the oomph is applied. Oct 26 01:29:07 a stepper device selects the key and then a solenoid fires a hammer. that's how many of those worked. Oct 26 01:29:44 the wheel with the letters shifts up and down based on the character it's printing. Oct 26 01:30:32 Oh. Oct 26 01:30:40 the IBM selectric was a bit different of a beast. Oct 26 01:31:05 Mine has metal beams w/ letters on the end. Oct 26 01:31:26 I guess the solenoid fires the beams directly to the paper. Oct 26 01:31:42 Let me get a photo of this sucker. Oct 26 01:33:46 you mean "let me get an image of this thing"? Oct 26 01:34:08 I made a video instead w/ some terrible music in the background. Oct 26 01:34:28 It is workering. Please be patient. Oct 26 01:35:39 It shows some lettering and them some of the LED display (One LED) on a see through, plastic display, and then here comes the hammers! Oct 26 01:36:07 Whack, whack, whack. Sorry for the commentary. Oct 26 01:36:20 what nothing break glass shattering and no accompanying explosions... Oct 26 01:36:34 Nope. Just nice, neat workerings. Oct 26 01:36:44 * GenTooMan grins. Oct 26 01:36:48 It is a Sears Brand! Oct 26 01:37:05 * set_ Makes it so! Oct 26 01:37:58 100 mb on a phone still takes forever for a upload to Google. Oct 26 01:43:14 Now, Google Drive has to "process" the vid. Oct 26 01:43:19 Sheesh. Oct 26 01:46:29 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a4zir6xMb-4HHINX1JjkxLeYv9CkGkZf/view?usp=sharing <<< Does that work yet? Oct 26 01:46:42 GenTooMan: ^ Oct 26 01:47:21 why not connect it via USB to your computer and copy it off the phone? Oh if you have an apple you can't do that. Oct 26 01:47:35 No apple here. Oct 26 01:47:40 I guess I could... Oct 26 01:47:49 I would need to find the adapter. Oct 26 01:47:55 USB-C! Oct 26 01:48:11 It probably would have taken the same amount of time. Oct 26 01:50:56 Damn it. It should work before 10:00. Oct 26 01:50:58 Sorry. Oct 26 01:51:57 most companies charge an arm and a leg for bandwidth usage. I've seen that type too but that resembles the older mechanical types with a slight change. That design is from Smith Corona. Oct 26 01:52:13 The AI was just here. I am using the cable for it now. Oct 26 01:52:23 Hmm. Oct 26 01:52:25 It works! Oct 26 01:52:35 What is Smith Corona? Oct 26 01:52:44 Google! Oct 26 01:53:09 I already viewed the video? Smith Corona was a business they went poof I think in the 80's during the PC evolution. Oct 26 01:53:38 Oh. Oct 26 01:53:44 Yea. THey have a museum now! Oct 26 01:53:48 Nice. Oct 26 01:54:07 You are right. The electroMechanical is similar to the WWII one on their site. Oct 26 01:54:26 https://www.smithcorona.com/blog/gallery/ Oct 26 01:55:02 Roy Rogers had a museum too it was emptied in 2011 because it didn't pay for itself that year So by charter it had to close and all the stuff was too be sold and proceeds given to charity. Oct 26 01:55:32 I guess smith corona survived? maybe? Oct 26 01:55:40 Seems like it. Oct 26 01:55:47 I should look into it more. Oct 26 01:56:09 they made all sorts of stuff. Oct 26 01:56:15 Who knows? I may be able to collect some nice pieces to create BBB related manuscripts of my trials... Oct 26 01:56:23 Hmm? Oct 26 01:56:25 Ha. Oct 26 01:56:54 trials and errors show the smoking ruins of random thoughts! Oct 26 01:57:00 Oh? I am off to go and look at their site. So, it was not only typewriters. It was other machines too. Oct 26 01:57:01 Boy! Oct 26 01:57:26 I started pushing buttons and awkward things started to happen. Nice days! Typewriters! Oct 26 01:57:54 What was that they called the whole entity of the life but not biography. It is something else. Oct 26 01:58:04 Not manuscripts, either. Oct 26 01:58:38 It is like a perturbed word for self-biography. Oct 26 01:59:55 I guess that smith corona personnel got w/ the times. Oct 26 02:00:21 They do big biz now w/ thermal printers and papers. Oct 26 02:01:17 this is what I used as a wee child (too play with at least) https://www.smithcorona.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/1949LCSmithCoronaTypewritersInc.Smith-CoronaSilent.jpg Oct 26 02:02:39 Nice. Mine is the Forecast Electric 12. Oct 26 02:03:14 I am not sure yet what any of that means but heh, I am going to make a monolouge! I think that is the word. Oct 26 02:03:21 "MY monologues!" Oct 26 02:04:34 write down what you intend to say then read it to yourself a few times to see if it makes sense. :D Oct 26 02:07:39 Ha. Oct 26 02:08:02 Okay. Twice for-out-thou, herein to, but w/out thee? Oct 26 02:08:05 Like that? Oct 26 02:08:31 Hey. The reason I brought up all this info, was b/c of this idea... Oct 26 02:08:44 Do you think that this specific writer has a board in it? Oct 26 02:10:22 I mean...it is electric. So, yea but I am not sure to what technicality this might have inside. So, it could have a tiny transformer, some circuit to control power and a LED, and some other circuitry. Oct 26 02:11:48 I mean, '43, tinkering was happening but not like current times. It was more war like and not for "fun." Oct 26 02:11:50 depends on when it was built actually if in mid to late 80's it might have a PCB in it. Oct 26 02:11:59 80's? Oct 26 02:12:03 You think it is that new? Oct 26 02:12:26 Hmm. I am off to look up forecast electric 12. Oct 26 02:12:30 1985 or sooner might have a PCB in it however it is much less likely if older. Oct 26 02:13:06 '60's and I was off 20 years. Oct 26 02:13:13 Okay. Oct 26 02:13:26 I thought around '43 for some reason. Oct 26 02:14:43 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sears-Forecast-12-Manual-Typewriter-With-Hard-Carrying-Case-/184150668497 Oct 26 02:14:48 Similar but not quite it. Oct 26 02:16:45 It is hard to believe that the ribbon is still good. Ink! Oct 26 02:18:56 https://hackaday.com/2020/10/22/clacker-hacker-popping-a-cap-in-a-brother-ep43-thermal-typewriter/?fbclid=IwAR3vD9gH5tq34gNzRZRYldM7mYudA8lpCiZKbhgfPe3yNbTU65S7SWrMs_4 from the '80s I guess. Oct 26 02:22:46 dancing mechanical w/ the BBB seems very underrated for a Forecaster Electric 12. Can I do it is the question? I guess the relayCape would be good for this idea, right? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 26 02:59:57 2020