**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 12 02:59:57 2021 Jan 12 03:44:36 I take it it is bad if you just have a white screen constantly on boot Jan 12 03:45:13 not even getting the tux on boot Jan 12 03:57:50 my overlay is not loading =( Jan 12 04:01:08 Load it! Jan 12 04:01:30 i am trying Jan 12 04:01:40 Oh. Jan 12 04:01:43 and my lcd doesnt let me get tot he serial pins Jan 12 04:01:47 so I cannot watch it boot Jan 12 04:01:53 Oh. Dang. Jan 12 04:02:09 Maybe get some wires in there? Jan 12 04:02:20 On the tty to usb adapter port? Jan 12 04:02:41 Or...are you using them as of now? Jan 12 04:02:57 It will probably only take three pins of usage. Jan 12 04:03:44 I mean...you can get the transmit, PWR, and GND. Then, you can see what is going on...w/ uart. Jan 12 04:07:03 you boot/running off internal or sd-card?... Jan 12 04:07:55 if sd-card edit the rootfs under a pc to stop the overlay from loading otherwise it may just be easier to make a boot sd-card Jan 12 04:08:52 running off emmc Jan 12 04:09:00 i had this working before Jan 12 04:09:02 grrrr Jan 12 04:09:04 normally while i am playing i run off sd card and just keep a clean console image loaded on internal till i get the final image i want Jan 12 04:09:16 my last bbb was all set and in went poof Jan 12 04:09:28 so trying to retrace some of my steps Jan 12 04:09:33 i have the overlay Jan 12 04:09:42 but for some reason it is not working Jan 12 04:09:46 need the zmatt Jan 12 04:10:00 will try and grab him tomorrow Jan 12 04:10:02 awe... ya i am still kinda learning in that area as well Jan 12 04:10:06 We need a pin cover that comes prewired w/ side exit of the wire for adapting to the TTY to USB conversion cables. Jan 12 04:10:15 seriously Jan 12 04:10:18 if you have a cape Jan 12 04:10:22 cant get to it Jan 12 04:10:25 Right. Jan 12 04:10:38 but even wihtout the cape my thing is not loading Jan 12 04:10:48 i was gonna say unless zmatt no's a quicker way making a boot sd is probably the quickest way to fix up the internel flash Jan 12 04:11:10 i do not think it is a flash thing Jan 12 04:11:16 everything else works Jan 12 04:11:21 MattB000ne: Are you still dealing w/ the AI and the LCD Cape? Jan 12 04:11:34 no I got that working Jan 12 04:11:37 Oh. Jan 12 04:11:38 Okay. Jan 12 04:11:39 awe... i was thinking you cant get back up and running Jan 12 04:11:42 this is the black Jan 12 04:11:45 Okay. Jan 12 04:11:54 no it does not appear to be an error Jan 12 04:11:57 in the dmesg Jan 12 04:12:09 and I just watched the bootloader nothing obvious there Jan 12 04:12:14 maybe something dumb in my uBoot Jan 12 04:12:37 do you disable to hdmi Jan 12 04:12:48 sofar ive not Jan 12 04:12:57 It depends. Jan 12 04:13:09 ive been messing with a bunch of things but sofar ive not disable that Jan 12 04:13:24 HMDI takes up some pin usage. Jan 12 04:13:50 ive been playing more with building a root file system the way i want and messing with 5.10 kernel Jan 12 04:13:55 So, if your pins are used by HDMI, then yes. Disable it. But, if they are not reserved, not a big deal. Jan 12 04:14:30 Sometimes, I have to disable emmc too. Jan 12 04:14:42 It just depends on the requirements. Jan 12 04:15:11 sofar ive left it enabled as it lets me check on my normal monitor but mostly ive been either running rdp or ssh into the board Jan 12 04:15:44 got you Jan 12 04:16:00 the only stuff ive disabled sofar is the bonescript and cloud9 stuff Jan 12 04:16:15 For instance, if p9.36 and p8.35 are used for a particular peripheral that is hardwired to the board, disable whatever so you can have access to those pins. Jan 12 04:16:17 i just use static ip on the ethernet prot Jan 12 04:16:38 brb Jan 12 04:18:10 ive not messed much yet with capes so ive really had no need to disable or try and recover any of the multiplexed pins but understand what your saying Jan 12 04:19:08 once i migrate some of my other arm code over to the 5.10 kernel and get it working i plan on looking more at the cape thing Jan 12 04:19:14 just not quite there yet Jan 12 04:21:28 https://beagleboard.org/Support/bone101 shows some info. down the page about emmc and hdmi and allocated pins for the LCD usage. Jan 12 04:24:25 Also, @zmatt put together that column/row spreadsheet of the BBB on what is taken up, used, and allocated. Jan 12 04:26:34 It seems HDMI takes all your Cape LCD pins and "shoves" them to be allocated by the HDMI pins. Jan 12 04:26:48 So, I would say yes. Jan 12 04:26:53 Disable it. Jan 12 04:27:19 I am talking to myself. Blah. Jan 12 04:27:33 nope... just following along Jan 12 04:27:46 i can see what your saying tho Jan 12 04:28:27 Oh. I do not know everything but I see that the HDMI pins are using all the LCD connections and pins. Jan 12 04:28:54 One view only, I guess, for now. Jan 12 04:29:43 Unless there is a good wattage amount directed at the spliced wiring to multiple displays but that would probably take some work. Jan 12 04:30:18 ya im not sure what his cape is and what its doing but can see what your saying Jan 12 04:30:39 or i guess i should say over-lay Jan 12 04:30:53 Okay. I think he is using the resistive touch Cape from Gen4. LCD. Jan 12 04:31:02 At least, that is what he was using. Jan 12 04:31:24 I even think he and others got the Cape to work w/ the AI. Jan 12 04:31:53 actually im just getting ready to jet for the night but will check back in tomorrow as i am curious to see how he makes out Jan 12 04:32:05 Otay! Jan 12 04:32:07 Later for now. Jan 12 04:33:09 l8tr as well...see ya tomorrow. nite Jan 12 11:35:16 m Jan 12 13:06:51 I want to boot sdk rtos to bbb Jan 12 13:38:09 ok I am confused Jan 12 13:38:21 while this is no surprised I am really stumped by this Jan 12 13:38:37 the bbai is detecting my usb3.0 hub as usb2.0 Jan 12 13:38:44 which is messing up my camera Jan 12 13:38:51 i am looking at this https://www.element14.com/community/thread/75059/l/usb-30-support-for-beagle-bone-ai Jan 12 13:39:48 and this by jkridner https://e2e.ti.com/support/processors/f/791/t/885254?BEAGLE-3P-BBONE-AI-USB-3-0-support-through-USB-C-on-BB-AI-board Jan 12 13:40:03 so I run the script I see the camera via lsusb Jan 12 13:40:19 but the software says it detected as usb2.0 Jan 12 13:40:40 if I plug the hub to my laptop it works Jan 12 13:40:54 so it is the bbai Jan 12 13:41:14 the post I references seem to be using an older kernel could that be the problem? Jan 12 13:41:44 or another possibility my hubs drivers are not great for the bbai? Jan 12 13:42:24 here is what jkridner had https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-USB-C-3-Port-Delivery-CB-CU301HSPD/dp/B07FQWV2YK Jan 12 13:42:59 here is mine https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZVKTP53 Jan 12 13:43:06 i do not see any differences Jan 12 13:43:12 other than brand Jan 12 13:48:39 anyone have any ideas Jan 12 13:49:13 also how much money could have possibly been saved by having that USB-A kept as a 2.0 vs 3.0 Jan 12 13:49:33 pi4 has USB3.0 Jan 12 15:33:36 MattB000ne: the am572x has a single USB3 controller Jan 12 15:34:49 well why would they go and do something like that Jan 12 15:35:17 though maybe it would have been better ot use it for the host port instead of the USB-C port... but presumably the idea was that using it with the USB-C port would be more flexible since it can (in principle at least) support both device and host role Jan 12 15:35:50 I am going to buy the hub that kkrisner used and hopefully that fixes it Jan 12 15:36:16 the other thing to try is power the bone via the pins but I am scared to do that Jan 12 15:37:06 I mean, the hub needs to be the PD source regardless, since the BBAI does not support being one Jan 12 15:37:38 it does seem to me like there's still some gaps in the software support on the bbai side, in the kernel... Jan 12 15:38:44 like, forcing the port into host mode using a script should not be necessary Jan 12 15:39:01 (unless that's obsolete info and has been fixed already) Jan 12 15:41:18 also, the usb-c controller is literally not even declared in DT Jan 12 15:41:46 (at least in the am5729-beagleboneai.dts of the 4.19-ti series) Jan 12 15:41:48 I am thinking my hub is not supported well. Jan 12 15:42:24 and that is why it won't detect as Usb3 but it seems odd that hubs would differ Jan 12 15:42:37 I mean, a hub is a hub... the only bit that should matter is that it's a charging hub (i.e. able to power the beaglebone) Jan 12 15:42:41 yes that does sound bizarre Jan 12 15:42:53 can you share your kernel log? Jan 12 15:43:01 hub drivers* Jan 12 15:43:08 sure one second Jan 12 15:43:22 also, what hub are you using? Jan 12 15:43:30 my hub that I am using now I powered Jan 12 15:43:42 as in, what product is it Jan 12 15:43:47 I posted a link of jkridner hub and mine Jan 12 15:43:52 ah Jan 12 15:43:55 sorry Jan 12 15:44:05 I think they are the same Jan 12 15:44:13 or same capability Jan 12 15:45:01 definitely a charging hub Jan 12 15:45:06 though it's clearly not merely a hub Jan 12 15:46:18 like, hopefully the cardreader and hdmi functionality just show up as embedded usb devices plugged into internal hub ports Jan 12 15:49:36 oh Jan 12 15:50:49 right, the usb-c controller on the bbai (TUSB322I) does not support PD communications... Jan 12 15:52:03 that seems like a problem though I don't remember what my conclusions were last time I dug into this Jan 12 15:54:03 what should I do for the dmesg output Jan 12 15:54:16 change to host mode then plug in the camera? Jan 12 15:54:33 no Jan 12 15:54:39 I just want to know what it has detected Jan 12 15:55:53 but eh, yeah, this actually looks like a bbai problem Jan 12 16:04:23 jkridner[m]: looks like the HS3SS3220 usb-c controller on the BBAI rev A2 that replaced the TUSB322I on the rev A1 still doesn't support power delivery communications, which afaik is the only way the usb specs enable having a host port that's a a power sink... so I guess people who want to attach usb3 devices to the bbai remain mostly out of luck? Jan 12 16:06:52 hmz, though even with PD it seems dubious Jan 12 16:07:33 unless the hub is able to initially take on host role and then perform a data-role swap to device role Jan 12 16:09:45 MattB000ne: so wait, but the hub does supply the bbai with power? interesting Jan 12 16:10:12 lemme see how the usb-c controller's registers can be dumped Jan 12 16:14:37 yeah I power it with this hub Jan 12 16:14:51 though i guess that is not good to be back powered i read that somewhere Jan 12 16:15:33 well this is usb-c so that complicates things Jan 12 16:15:43 whether this is good or bad depends on what exactly has been negotiated Jan 12 16:16:53 getting that dmesg now Jan 12 16:17:14 connecting via ethernet feels snappier Jan 12 16:17:29 just more responsive for some reason Jan 12 16:17:32 i2cdump -r 0x08-0x0A -y 0 0x47 Jan 12 16:17:32 i live it Jan 12 16:17:36 is there some known problem on the UART1 on the BBB revC from embest/farnell? Jan 12 16:17:43 samael: no Jan 12 16:18:15 I'm not aware with any known issue with any UART on any revision of the BBB Jan 12 16:18:20 *aware of Jan 12 16:19:31 zmatt: ok, thanks Jan 12 16:19:37 MattB000ne: that command dumps three registers of the usb-c controller Jan 12 16:20:50 ok let me run that Jan 12 16:20:58 here is dmesg with usb-c in host Jan 12 16:20:59 https://pastebin.com/MbbNpxrS Jan 12 16:21:31 e.g. with a usb2 charger attached via cheap microusb-to-usb-c adapter I get 00 b0 00 Jan 12 16:21:51 i2c dump https://pastebin.com/3dUu9xAx Jan 12 16:23:56 okay, so it's attached as sink (device role) and detected "medium" current available Jan 12 16:24:01 whatever that means Jan 12 16:25:10 how do you map the out put to those statements are you in the TRM? Jan 12 16:27:31 datasheet of the TUSB322I Jan 12 16:29:54 I like how 35 pages is a sheet lol Jan 12 16:48:48 medium is 1.5 amps Jan 12 16:49:00 low is 900ma, and high is 3A Jan 12 16:49:44 those are the 3 states that can be known by bias voltage on cc lines alone without PD negotiation Jan 12 16:51:11 a device is a sink if it has 5.1k pulldown resistors on it's cc lines, and based on the voltage that is sensed across the resistor the sink device can know how much (which of the 3 states) of current it can consume.) Jan 12 16:51:25 Konsgn: can I run a camera and the bone on that Jan 12 16:51:32 1.5A Jan 12 16:51:35 .. also which side is connected. Jan 12 16:51:59 depends on camera, but most likely yes. that is plenty of current for cmos chips. Jan 12 16:53:34 Re: datasheet, why have a reference manual if all the info fits in 35 pages? Jan 12 16:53:52 MattB000ne: the 1.5A is referring to power delivery to the bbai, the camera is irrelevant for that Jan 12 16:54:06 the camera is being powered by the hub, not by the bbai Jan 12 16:54:31 right I was wondering if there was not enough for both Jan 12 16:55:25 then your hub would be garbage, since it's designed to power downstream devices and charge a laptop, which definitely requires way more than powering a bbai :P Jan 12 16:55:44 it says it supports 100W power delivery Jan 12 16:56:58 Konsgn: I think with "TRM" he meant AM572x TRM (which is not a relevant document in this case) Jan 12 16:58:42 gotcha, i must say it's kinda annoying that there aren't more 100w devices out there. I feel like the market is flooded with the 60w ones. Jan 12 17:01:24 MattB000ne: anyway, it's not weird that the hub doesn't show up as usb3 device after forcing the bbai into host role, since it can't just unilaterally decide that: it negotiated device role. it's actually more a mystery why it *does* show up as usb2 hub Jan 12 17:04:31 most likely the hub's upstream port doesn't actually behave like a proper dual-role port but merely acts as "host" (or "downstream facing port" in usb-c speak) for the purpose of being able to charge devices Jan 12 17:05:44 (charge devices that aren't acting as a host that is, or possibly not acting like anything at all because e.g. their battery is dead and needs charging first :P ) Jan 12 17:07:24 (in that case it can't, like it normally would, initially negotiate the hub in device role and then perform a power role swap to charge the host, since this still requires the host to initially have the role of power source, which it won't/can't do if it has a depleted battery) Jan 12 17:08:34 so maybe I got too many ports on this hub Jan 12 17:08:42 ?????? Jan 12 17:09:03 if they are both powered maybe all the formats of being 7in 1 is making it.more difficult Jan 12 17:09:15 that response makes about as much sense in context as "so this is all caused by pineapples?" Jan 12 17:09:36 lol I am desperate here Jan 12 17:10:12 the root problem is the bbai... it should not have put its usb3 capability on its power supply port Jan 12 17:10:59 it would have been better to use a usb2 micro-usb for power supply and device-role, and either a usb3 host port or a separate usb3 type-c dual-role port Jan 12 17:11:48 but I don't know what the design rationale was here, or what options were evaluated Jan 12 17:14:21 if usb-c could negotiate initial data role independently of initial power role then things would have bene fine, but that's not the case afaict Jan 12 17:16:03 would powering by the pins help Jan 12 17:16:57 if the bbai used a usb-c controller with PD support then perhaps that would solve things too, assuming the hub can perform a data-role swap (which seems somewhat plausible given the fact that it can take on initial host (DFP) role in the first place) Jan 12 17:17:49 no. that would have helped if the BBAI could provide power to the usb-c port in host role, but it can't Jan 12 17:20:04 frustrating it seems there are hubs that are compatible since that one thread was using virtually the same camera with powered hub. Jan 12 17:20:26 I would of bought the exact same one but it is foreign made product and I cannot seem to buy it Jan 12 17:21:03 probably the hub's non-spec-compliance interacting with the bbai's non-spec-compliance in some fortuitous way Jan 12 17:46:40 if a device has 5.1k pullups, it is be able to say i provide power, but then it must act as a host too. I don't think that without PD you can both source power and host data. Jan 12 17:47:15 to act as a host you must supply vbus and vconn, at least initially Jan 12 17:47:23 ohh, oops, the pullup value would depend on how much current you can source. Jan 12 17:50:33 yeah, initial-source pulls up the CC lines, initial-sink pulls them down, initial-source detects this pulldown and provides vbus and vconn, initial-sink detects vbus presence, measures initial-sink's pullup to determine max current Jan 12 17:50:58 and then optionally PD negotiations can happen including swapping data role, vbus role, and vconn role Jan 12 17:51:24 but obviously an unpowered device will never be able to be initial-source Jan 12 17:52:16 so it will by necessity be initial-sink, hence can then only become host through PD data role swap Jan 12 17:53:04 the BBAI can't acts as vbus/vconn source (even if powered via P9) and doesn't support PD, so that excludes the possibility of using the usb-c port in host role in any standard-compliant way Jan 12 17:56:10 so like I said... any success in using the bbai's usb-c in host role (even if only usb2) is most likely just a fortuitous interaction between the non-spec-compliance of the bbai when forced into host role (in contradiction with the type-C negotiation) and the non-spec-compliance of the charging usb hub Jan 12 18:02:01 okay yeah, the type-C spec explicitly says that a "Sinking Host" requires PD data role swap Jan 12 18:04:18 yeah, any charging hub should support data role swap, especially for the dead battery scenario I mentioned earlier (which is an example the type-c spec also gives) Jan 12 18:05:09 would the sequence of connecting matter like bbai powered by hub switched to host then plug in or something Jan 12 18:06:30 no Jan 12 18:07:04 the "switched to host" is the problem, that requires PD data role swap Jan 12 18:07:57 (merely forcing the driver into host mode has no reason to work and may just result in drive conflicts) Jan 12 19:33:42 is there a way to get the c kernel compiler to print out the type of a variable? like pythons type() Jan 12 19:34:21 "the c kernel compiler" ... you mean gcc? :P Jan 12 19:34:28 ya Jan 12 19:36:08 don't think so, not in C anyway, you can in C++ Jan 12 19:36:24 but then again in C it's usually not that hard to determine the type of something Jan 12 19:37:47 you could probably also compile the file with debug info and extract it from that Jan 12 19:44:24 something seems wrong about my const struct reg_field *regmap[sizeof(enum bq257xx_fields)]; call Jan 12 19:44:42 especially when i try to set it with : .regmap = bq25700_reg_fields, Jan 12 19:44:56 well duh, you can't assign to an array Jan 12 19:44:58 in C Jan 12 19:45:22 it should be a pointer to an array Jan 12 19:45:29 no you declared an array of poitners Jan 12 19:45:48 yea, was worried that might be the case Jan 12 19:46:27 a pointer to an array of struct reg_field is just struct reg_field * Jan 12 19:47:17 if i have a declared unit, is there a way to easily define an array of size x made of said units? Jan 12 19:47:29 (an array decays to a pointer to its first element) Jan 12 19:47:56 yea but you can only have one array of undefined length at the end of a structs Jan 12 19:48:31 why is that relevant? you're not putting the array in the struct but a pointer Jan 12 19:48:40 at least, that's what you just asked for Jan 12 19:48:43 good point Jan 12 19:49:23 generally you'd only use an actual pointer-to-array type for multidimensional arrays, which require declaring the dimensions except the first Jan 12 19:50:12 int x[4][5][6]; int (*p)[5][6] = x; Jan 12 19:50:15 im using this to store different elements in the data field of the driver Jan 12 19:50:49 and those parentheses is how you avoid declaring an array of pointers ;) Jan 12 19:51:32 but you don't need/see such types very often Jan 12 20:54:56 In C  for a micro, you can do a #define for a pin to rename it for easy use in the program (i.e. #define MOTOR PORTB.2), is there a way to do this in Python for the Beaglebone? Jan 12 20:56:22 yea just say = Jan 12 20:56:42 Motor = PORTB.2 Jan 12 20:58:08 So for Beaglebone P8_10 it'd be Motor = P8_10? Jan 12 20:58:30 Then I can toggle it on and off using GPIO.output("Motor", GPIO.HIGH) Jan 12 20:58:32 ? Jan 12 21:18:03 i don't know the python modules that control pins, but almost, GPIO.output(Motor, GPIO.HIGH) would work. Motor becomes PORTB.2. Pretty sure it is essentially a define. Jan 12 22:12:40 right that's what i meant. sorry about the quotes there! Jan 12 23:50:25 This link http://builds.beagleboard.org/ on page https://beagleboard.org/p/robertcnelson-myopenid-com/debian-ab3bb7 does not work , anybody have teh correct link Jan 13 00:32:47 zmatt: wasnt there something about the order of the overlays that was important Jan 13 00:33:14 i am setting up my black again and for some reason it wont take my overlay that was working fine before Jan 13 00:33:34 hi there... how'd you make out last night with your issue? Jan 13 00:34:14 which one lol Jan 13 00:34:14 i have many Jan 13 00:34:21 lol Jan 13 00:34:36 i think I was complaining about the panel Jan 13 00:34:40 i think it was fried Jan 13 00:34:47 the one you were trying to get your screen back after loading some overlay Jan 13 00:35:08 I had an old panel that had a crack in it Jan 13 00:35:08 worked fine Jan 13 00:35:14 I am recovering from a complete system failure Jan 13 00:35:23 apparently it fried EVERYTHING Jan 13 00:35:24 k Jan 13 00:35:54 I have had to replace pretty much every electrical component Jan 13 00:35:54 I am still not sure how it happened Jan 13 00:35:54 but very time consuiming Jan 13 00:36:01 what are you up to Jan 13 00:36:49 not much just goiing over the build-image project trying to understand more about exactly how it works Jan 13 00:36:57 cool Jan 13 00:37:12 this will be for the black or the ai Jan 13 00:37:13 that and i have a 5.10 kernel from some other arm devices i am trying to migrate over to the bbb Jan 13 00:37:37 sofar ive not even take the ai out of the box yet Jan 13 00:37:38 lol Jan 13 00:37:47 just playing with the bbb Jan 13 00:38:13 normally i build by hand or buildroot and then just build my own kernel and u-boot Jan 13 00:38:47 but after looking at the image-builder projects i see floating around on github ive been playing with them Jan 13 00:39:30 thats what i used to build the xfce4 version i was using to checkout linuxcnc Jan 13 00:40:42 i see the image builder's been around for somany years i am just trying to understand what half of the stuff in it does as it seems to be used by most of the images i see floating around for the bbb Jan 13 00:41:46 the way the tool works isnt really very well documented so its kinda play and learn while seeing how all the scripts interact Jan 13 00:43:07 i don't have a working jenkins server setup and wasnt sure if it was a requirement but then found that i could just manually use the rootstock-ng script with a conf file of my own making that seems to work without the jenkins stuff Jan 13 00:44:10 currently i am just trying to get to the point where ive got the filesystem the way i want so i can make swaping and messing with the kernel less work Jan 13 00:45:08 one day I would like to mess with that Jan 13 00:45:17 make a real streamlined kernel Jan 13 00:45:17 ive got some arm kernels from other boards ive developed on with better drivers on the usb and graphics stuff i want to see if i can move over to run on the bbb and hopefully then the jump the ai isnt to hard Jan 13 00:46:12 after messing with the bbb sofar and different manners of using usb its performance is really lacking Jan 13 00:46:49 BB-BONE-AUDI-01 using CircuitCo Audio Cape REV A.  The DTS file gives errors on later BBB releases but worked on 3.x kernels.  Anyone got this working? Jan 13 00:50:12 sorry capes ive not yet touched but jumping up off 3.x kernels to the 4 or 5 it wouldn't surprise me if the devicetree stuff was off Jan 13 00:51:06 i quess it depends on the device and what kernel 3 it was as the tree stuff was still being heavily developed back then Jan 13 00:52:21 alot of arm based 3's stuff ive seen over the years were still heavily dependant on the vendors bsp's which in alot of cases were at the same spec level as the newer mainstream stuff Jan 13 00:56:03 I think your right it is to do with devicetree changes.  Having tied modifying the REVB AUD-02.dts I can see it is way different.  I've gone back tot he schematics and the McASP mapping is different.  I tried a few goes with it but not got very far Jan 13 00:56:08 mattb00ne you building your own images at all? or just using the available ones? Jan 13 00:58:17 ya sometimes migrating the older kernel trees can be a pain but sometimes its just the differences in how the files formatted Jan 13 01:01:12 just using stock Jan 13 01:01:23 not knowledgeable enough for custom yet Jan 13 01:02:00 So...how are things going? Jan 13 01:02:21 I mean...is there a query we cannot solve today? Jan 13 01:02:32 actually just building the kernel/u-boot and then use buildroot to do the rootfs works pretty easy on the bbb Jan 13 01:02:54 its just your left without any of the typical bbb support stuff from rcn or here Jan 13 01:03:09 Support! Jan 13 01:03:11 thats kinda why i started looking at the image-builder tool Jan 13 01:03:19 Smart. Jan 13 01:03:50 it seems to drag in all the git related stuff from .org and rcn making that easy Jan 13 01:04:11 i am currently just trying to understand it better to stop it from dragin in the stuff i don't want Jan 13 01:04:12 Where would one look for buildroot? Is that part of Yocto/OE? Jan 13 01:04:12 lol Jan 13 01:04:27 naw... buildroot is its own thing Jan 13 01:04:35 Oh. Okay. Jan 13 01:04:38 buildroot is basically a firmware tool Jan 13 01:04:39 Off to look it up. Jan 13 01:04:49 yocto is better as its more of distribution Jan 13 01:05:13 by firmware i mean updates usually can't be done without recompiling the whole image Jan 13 01:05:29 Oh. Jan 13 01:05:43 yocto will let you build a image thats more like a distro that can have live updates Jan 13 01:05:47 things like apt Jan 13 01:05:52 Oh. Jan 13 01:05:55 Okay. Jan 13 01:06:01 Hmm. Jan 13 01:06:10 That might be something to look into again. Jan 13 01:06:33 most of the media setups like openelec or libreelec are like a firmware build Jan 13 01:07:08 there jeos types of linux designed basically to run kodi and not be updateable without a whole new image Jan 13 01:07:18 buildroot is kinda in that vein Jan 13 01:07:29 Oh...okay. Jan 13 01:07:45 It is just for pushing the image to the boards? Jan 13 01:07:47 its a good tool and well documented with lots of good tuts Jan 13 01:08:16 its main strenght is in building the rootfile system Jan 13 01:08:43 Aw. It is hard to get over how much work BBB.io persons put in on their BSPs. Jan 13 01:08:47 then you can build the file image by using your own kernel and uboot or you can let buildroot do the whole thing Jan 13 01:09:51 Hmm. Jan 13 01:10:10 ya its alot of work and generally can be tough for peeps not developing on that device all the time as most of the kernel and uboot stuff tends to be not mainstream Jan 13 01:11:03 Oh yea. Jan 13 01:11:20 current developments are more aimed on the vendor no longer using bsp's like the old days and instead just releasing a dtb for the device that can be applied to any of the mainstream kernels and u-boot Jan 13 01:11:21 I was going to say that Bootlin now offers their own training on this particular thing. Jan 13 01:11:43 I see their ideas are still around on buildroot. Jan 13 01:12:01 I missed the kernel coding lessons this, well last, year. Jan 13 01:12:34 Yea. Jan 13 01:12:44 About the dtb and BSP... Jan 13 01:13:03 ya thomas does alot of speaking these days and i find his stuff easy to understand Jan 13 01:13:33 Smaller chips may prove to handle this easily...but what about something like the am335x or am5729? It is not as easy as one dtb. Jan 13 01:14:10 over the years most hardware makers used their own propriatary bsp's so taking software from the device and trying to migraate it up to newer kernels is a real pain in the butt without the vendors help Jan 13 01:14:25 Right. Jan 13 01:14:34 and in most cases the makers are more interested in new devices so the old ones get dropped support wise Jan 13 01:14:56 leaving it up to the hackers to make them updateable if theres any interest in the device Jan 13 01:15:16 Okay. Right. Jan 13 01:15:20 pretty much most arm devices back in the days of the 3 kernels were like that Jan 13 01:15:29 Oh. Jan 13 01:15:33 amlogic and rockchip were notorius for that Jan 13 01:15:45 I am new to this idea. I was unaware. Jan 13 01:16:05 they just want to introduce new soc's yearly and then abandon the old stuff Jan 13 01:16:12 Right. Jan 13 01:16:16 I have seen that recently. Jan 13 01:16:44 back in the old kernels say the 2 and 3's most of the device support was coded into the kernel tree Jan 13 01:16:54 making it somewhat propriatary Jan 13 01:17:01 But, history repeats itself. I guess. It is cyclic. It will inevitably happen and keep happening. Jan 13 01:17:05 Oh. Jan 13 01:17:29 I started basically in the 4's. Jan 13 01:17:30 so anyone outsude that device circle was screwed in upward mobility unless you were good with kernel stuff Jan 13 01:17:39 good place to start Jan 13 01:17:44 Right... Jan 13 01:17:55 think of the device tree stuff kinda like this Jan 13 01:17:56 From what I was reading...things were complicated and fun. Jan 13 01:18:09 "WHY WILL THIS NOT WORK?" Jan 13 01:18:15 you know how on most devices things like usb autdetect themselvse Jan 13 01:18:15 Ha. Jan 13 01:18:21 Right. Jan 13 01:18:23 Yes. Jan 13 01:18:37 alot of the other peripherals like networking and graphix stuff don't Jan 13 01:18:50 Okay. Right. Jan 13 01:19:23 they need a device tree created by the vendor that lets the kernel know how to incorporate the proper kernel code Jan 13 01:19:56 Right. I have seen the omap and ti and Beagleboard.org ones. Jan 13 01:19:57 so for a vendor thats up to speed nowadays can just use one of the mainstream kernels Jan 13 01:20:07 without any real dev time into it Jan 13 01:20:12 Right. Jan 13 01:20:41 I have seen it work. Digikey has a nice set of tutorials for the BBB and BBBlue. Jan 13 01:20:43 rather they invest their time in creating the device tree file for the device and feed that in to the upstream kernel source Jan 13 01:21:01 ya i like the Digikey tuts as well Jan 13 01:21:30 Yep. Those people are basically giving away valuable time and effort to help people they may never meet. Jan 13 01:22:17 originally i started looking at TI and there tools like Code Studio but then being more of a old timer found learning the tool was more time i wasn't interested in investing it Jan 13 01:22:21 sorry in Jan 13 01:22:47 i basically code with just a simple text editor and the build chain tools Jan 13 01:22:52 I know what you mean by that idea and I take in no anger. Jan 13 01:22:54 all command line stuff Jan 13 01:22:54 Right. Jan 13 01:22:57 Right. Jan 13 01:23:17 the command line is a lot easier than promoting radio buttons. Jan 13 01:23:23 Code Studio is nice but being based on Ecplise its too much for me Jan 13 01:23:31 lol Jan 13 01:23:44 Is there a CCS for Linux? Jan 13 01:23:50 if i was starting over tho these days thats the way to go Jan 13 01:23:51 yep Jan 13 01:23:54 What? Jan 13 01:23:58 Weird. Jan 13 01:24:01 I never knew that... Jan 13 01:24:16 TI has all the dev tools for the bbb's and the sitara's Jan 13 01:24:23 I might get it now for the BBB set of tools. Jan 13 01:24:24 Right. Jan 13 01:24:37 I was wondering why this fellow from TI told me to use it. Jan 13 01:24:43 there version of Eclipse is just branded as Code Studio Jan 13 01:24:44 Now, I know. Debian! Jan 13 01:24:50 I know that part. Jan 13 01:24:55 Yep. Jan 13 01:25:10 I run it here on one of my many linux workstations Jan 13 01:25:12 Eclipse just looks fancy w/ rounded corners. Jan 13 01:25:22 ubuntu or debian and its free Jan 13 01:25:32 ya its all nice looking Jan 13 01:25:42 Yea. But you should give. I gave a whopping $8.00 once. Jan 13 01:25:53 I felt good! Jan 13 01:25:57 the closest i get to gui based dev tools is SublimeText Jan 13 01:26:01 lol Jan 13 01:26:06 I use their stuff all the time. Jan 13 01:26:18 Well, not all the time. I mix and match. Jan 13 01:26:32 mix and match is good Jan 13 01:26:43 just need to find whatever works for ya Jan 13 01:27:07 i come from a time when doing it by and command line was about all their was Jan 13 01:27:13 haha Jan 13 01:27:29 Yep. Oh...okay. Jan 13 01:27:42 i like the new stuff and if i made a living coding would propbably go down that road for the ease they provide Jan 13 01:28:11 but being a hacker i spend my time playing rather then learning some nice tools Jan 13 01:28:24 I still needed to use sftp on Debian to Debian outside of Eclipse when pushing over some source. Jan 13 01:28:48 I thought Eclipse could do it. But...I have not figured out how yet. Jan 13 01:28:56 I should look it up again. Jan 13 01:29:12 ya... that sounds about right but i do think theres a module that can be installed into Eclipse to make that easier Jan 13 01:29:31 Aw...so some extra software. Got it. Jan 13 01:29:38 sftp works just fine. Jan 13 01:29:42 Sheesh. Jan 13 01:29:51 when i am learning a device at hardware level i always use a custom u-boot and then tftp to load the device Jan 13 01:30:35 If I could remember each time how to use it. Oh. Hmm. I tried to listen to the DigiKey tutorial and coughed. Jan 13 01:30:36 u-boot can do alot of really nifty and creative things if you understand it really well Jan 13 01:30:45 It is not as easy as "break into uboot." Jan 13 01:30:55 Right. Jan 13 01:31:21 to really understand u-boot it really helps if you understand at a hardware level how the soc works Jan 13 01:31:44 or in the old days it would have been the processor as soc really didnt exist back then Jan 13 01:32:13 Yep. Like, all the ways things coincide and flow. I get that... Jan 13 01:32:16 soc's are just basically all the old discrete's now on one substrate or wafer Jan 13 01:32:26 hmm. wafers. Jan 13 01:32:55 Like Bruce Lee says, "BE like water..." Jan 13 01:33:15 but basically they all work the same where you have a some bit of taped in or masked in rom code that once the processor starts up makes a known jump to a spot in memory Jan 13 01:33:22 For instance, the SoC...am335x. Jan 13 01:33:36 uboot lets create that landing zone amongst other things Jan 13 01:34:18 I have seen the kernel dts and dtsi files. Jan 13 01:34:23 It helps. Jan 13 01:34:55 Learning, the inner workings of a SoC is a must if one wants to truly learn about it. Jan 13 01:35:13 for sure Jan 13 01:35:33 It is not easy. Take that am335x. It has docs. that are elongated to the point of it just being a ref. Jan 13 01:35:48 There is not a way to really read it from start to finish in a fail swoop. Jan 13 01:36:36 and if you find learning the soc a bit overwhelming take a step backwards and look at the old stuff where all the different parts of the system were separate or discrete parts that were interconnected on a bigger board Jan 13 01:36:57 In the land of SoCs, things come up. At least for me, I start to learn and something is always there, e.g. a wall of issues, new issues, and/or lack of knowledge on my part. Jan 13 01:37:18 conceptually that old stuff is mostly still current just now much smaller and all on a wafer as a small encased chip Jan 13 01:38:05 I guess that is a way to start. Jan 13 01:38:34 So, I could almost slow the electricity to a stall and view it. Jan 13 01:38:39 Ha. Jan 13 01:38:47 over the years i have done alot of reverse engineering and decapped alot of silicon learning how that chip works Jan 13 01:38:56 Smart. Jan 13 01:39:12 so i am good down low in the dirt Jan 13 01:39:26 I would never ruin one of these boards while the the people are still producing. Jan 13 01:39:30 but when it comes to high level programming i am basically still a newbie Jan 13 01:39:31 lol Jan 13 01:39:55 So, I may never, if they stay around, learn to take apart the ole beauts. Jan 13 01:40:05 well theres no need to wreck a beaglebone because theres nothing hidden on it Jan 13 01:40:18 bootloader and all the code is easily findable Jan 13 01:40:47 Yea but those components are awful tiny. Jan 13 01:40:59 alot of other devices tho have chips with locked up bootloaders and cryto keys and stuff and are designed to not easiely have their internal rom dumped Jan 13 01:41:21 true and for that ive a few really good microscropes Jan 13 01:41:35 Hmm. That is smart too. Jan 13 01:41:42 I have a cheap one. Boo. Jan 13 01:41:55 It is actually a camera but is can focus intensely. Jan 13 01:42:12 Not like 1M times. Jan 13 01:42:20 Just 500. Cough. Jan 13 01:42:50 nothing wrong with that if it serves your purpose Jan 13 01:42:54 buzzmarshall: Do you know a lot about the am335x? Jan 13 01:43:33 a bit but i am in the process of learning more Jan 13 01:43:43 I am just saying microscopic organisms are not floating around on my 500x. Jan 13 01:43:44 Nice. Jan 13 01:44:05 i have all the docs but just haven't quite got to where i am ready to build something i need to interface with the bbb Jan 13 01:44:15 Blurry floaters at best. Jan 13 01:44:16 Oh. Jan 13 01:44:18 Okay. Jan 13 01:44:30 Yea. That BBB can handle a ton of ideas. Jan 13 01:44:31 soon tho i will as i want to build a cape to control something ive built Jan 13 01:44:47 It is nearly invincible b/c you can always reflash. Jan 13 01:44:53 Nice. Jan 13 01:44:55 Capes! Jan 13 01:45:17 Handling eight motors? Jan 13 01:45:42 i might design around 8 or maybe 6 Jan 13 01:45:54 Eight or six motors or Capes? Jan 13 01:46:02 motors Jan 13 01:46:04 Nice. Jan 13 01:46:14 I got what you said now. Jan 13 01:46:39 The MotorCape has a L293 on it, well two of them. Jan 13 01:46:48 I think. Jan 13 01:46:50 i bought the bbb and a cramps board to control a 4 color 3d printer i built a couple of years ago that was based around the atmels and marlin Jan 13 01:47:04 marlins kinda just a rip off of grbl but added the hotend stuff Jan 13 01:47:12 What? Did you put Marlin on the BBB? Jan 13 01:47:14 Right. Jan 13 01:47:18 GRBL! Jan 13 01:47:19 Ha. Jan 13 01:47:38 It was killing me to figure that out. Jan 13 01:47:45 I could not figure it out. Jan 13 01:48:04 Marlin is for 8-bit and I could not figure out how to put it on the BBB. I was pissed. Jan 13 01:48:18 ive since rebuilt my cnc machine and want something more capable as i built my own motor drivers based around the TI's 8711 control chip Jan 13 01:48:28 or 16-bit? Jan 13 01:48:30 Oh. Jan 13 01:48:39 I am not familiar w/ the 8711. Jan 13 01:48:45 so to drive the 8711 and the output boards i built i decided to look at the BBB Jan 13 01:48:50 H-Bridge? Jan 13 01:48:51 Smart. Jan 13 01:48:55 drv8711 ya Jan 13 01:48:59 Okay. Jan 13 01:49:03 I am familiar w/ them. Jan 13 01:49:15 nice chip and its suprising its not much more popular Jan 13 01:49:43 so i used that chip and then built my own output end to it Jan 13 01:49:52 Smart. Jan 13 01:50:03 i use 7 of them to drive this machine currently Jan 13 01:50:11 I always wanted to build a Cape and get it mfg. Wozzers. Jan 13 01:50:26 so i looked at the bbb because im interested in the pru's Jan 13 01:50:32 How many motors does a drv8711 handle? Jan 13 01:50:33 Aw. Jan 13 01:50:36 Dang PRUs. Jan 13 01:50:45 One? Jan 13 01:50:47 using the pru's i can get a much better pulse speed Jan 13 01:51:08 originally i was messing with a fpga to create a faster pulse Jan 13 01:51:16 but thats a pain in the but Jan 13 01:51:36 Right. The PRU and am335x dual combination is a good choice. See me, I never figured out everything about the PRUs. Jan 13 01:51:39 the pru's i think should let me build assembly routines to drive that function much easier Jan 13 01:52:07 the only thing i was concerned about on the bbb was its low sram count Jan 13 01:52:08 Well, it can handle things while the processor handles other things. Jan 13 01:52:22 500mB? Jan 13 01:52:32 so i looked at the x15 but thats tu much bux Jan 13 01:52:38 Ha. Yep! Jan 13 01:52:43 ya its only got 512 Jan 13 01:52:57 Oh. 512MB. Okay. Jan 13 01:53:06 See, I even got that wrong. Jan 13 01:53:17 putting a swap file onto the system helps somewhat but for creating a headless system the bbb should be plenty Jan 13 01:53:36 I have had issues before with compiling on the BBB. Jan 13 01:53:39 i just got a AI tho which has the better mcp and 1g on it Jan 13 01:53:44 My ram rammed out. Jan 13 01:53:56 oh. NIce. Jan 13 01:53:59 Get a fan. Jan 13 01:54:07 ya its kinda slow but faster then what i thought it would be Jan 13 01:54:21 It is super speedy for booting still. Jan 13 01:54:32 i couldnt get it to build linuxcnc till i put a 1g swap file onto the system Jan 13 01:54:51 Hmm. Have you messed w/ MachineKit.io yet? Jan 13 01:55:09 I was going to help those fellows w/ some findings on my part. Jan 13 01:55:19 I was going to post them and see what people say. Jan 13 01:55:24 for the last week ive been kinda just messing around building filesystems and pushin the bbb to see whats reasonable to expect from it Jan 13 01:55:29 ya i looked at MK Jan 13 01:55:56 Oh. That is smart. See when crashes happen or slow parts kick in for processing... Jan 13 01:55:58 im more of do it myself guy and find MK is aimed at a much wider interest Jan 13 01:56:50 even with the bbb the first thing i did was toss all the cloud9,bonescript and nodejs stuff Jan 13 01:56:52 lol Jan 13 01:56:55 I thought the MachineKit people were dying off for some reason. I felt like if bbb.io people were going to make a cape based around the AI and Machinekit w/ Seeed, I needed to pitch in w/ simple items of interest. Jan 13 01:57:13 Yep. Some people like it and some people do not. Jan 13 01:57:13 makes me look at the bbb like is some halfarsed arduino Jan 13 01:57:14 lol Jan 13 01:57:25 That was the idea. Jan 13 01:57:25 i get why its like that Jan 13 01:57:29 just not for me Jan 13 01:57:33 For the yoots. Jan 13 01:57:48 From what I can tell, the yoots are people too. Jan 13 01:57:58 i spent many years on the atmel and really really hate the arduino crap Jan 13 01:58:02 lol Jan 13 01:58:28 LIke me, I already know how to learn but some people want to learn at a young age. The younger group still needs help at times. Jan 13 01:58:33 Right, @zmatt! Jan 13 01:58:33 atmel was meant to be coded in assembly and they even gave everone a great tool in Atmel Studio Jan 13 01:58:40 Hmm. Jan 13 01:58:43 I was unaware. Jan 13 01:58:55 If he ever shows. Jan 13 01:59:02 then the yuppies come along and create a bunch of high level stuff and the arduino's born Jan 13 01:59:04 haha Jan 13 01:59:14 yuppies! Jan 13 01:59:33 I like name calling but not right now. Jan 13 01:59:43 Rich hippies are yuppies right? Jan 13 01:59:45 nothing bad intended Jan 13 02:00:01 I have not heard that term in a long time. Jan 13 02:00:15 I am not taking offense. No issue. Jan 13 02:00:24 i just use the term to describe dev's that want to work on a microcontroller or soc without learning its native language Jan 13 02:00:33 Oh. Jan 13 02:00:46 assembly is where its at if you really want something fast and tight and not buggy Jan 13 02:01:06 higher languages are really more routed in speedin up the dev process Jan 13 02:01:11 got you...I think the yuppies are people who skipped the WWII and Korea to be in the US. Jan 13 02:01:18 and allowing tool modules to help with thing Jan 13 02:01:22 Oh. Jan 13 02:01:39 So, your cramps board does stuff heh? Jan 13 02:01:46 Is cramps for the BBB? Jan 13 02:01:50 when i started messing with code microsoft never existed Jan 13 02:01:52 ya Jan 13 02:01:55 Oh. Jan 13 02:01:56 Ha. Jan 13 02:02:06 its kinda like the beaglebone version of a Ramps board Jan 13 02:02:25 I keep hearing of cramps. Is it called that b/c it is cramped w/ silicon and silver? Jan 13 02:02:40 i was looking for something to interface my drivers to the bbb and it was the easiest place to start Jan 13 02:02:49 Right. Smart. Jan 13 02:03:00 now tho i want to do my own board and remove alot of the cramps stuff i don't use Jan 13 02:03:14 i don't use the motor drive section on the cramps Jan 13 02:03:26 The books that handle some bbb related info. sometimes promote specific chips or h-bridges to handle motor support. Jan 13 02:03:28 i just use the control pins out of the socket Jan 13 02:03:35 Oh. Jan 13 02:04:14 So, this drv8711 can handle one Stepper or two DC motors? Jan 13 02:04:18 plus the cramps or ramps type of boards don't have enough control to run 4 hotends Jan 13 02:04:26 yes thats right Jan 13 02:04:29 Okay. Jan 13 02:04:38 I am going to look them up but not now. Jan 13 02:04:55 its actually got a nice web frontend for it as well Jan 13 02:04:56 I am going to look up cramps one day and drv8711. Jan 13 02:05:04 Hmm. Jan 13 02:05:12 the drv8711 that is Jan 13 02:05:42 I have been using the Motor Bridge Cape and MotorCape for BBB support. Jan 13 02:06:02 I make listings and "fun to read" tutorials. Jan 13 02:06:10 in the end what i want to do is design a drive system that has a drv8711 and the output section along with network support all on a small board that mounts right at the motor location Jan 13 02:06:34 that way i can network the motor drives back to the controller Jan 13 02:07:04 the AI i am pretty sure i can create a complete solution on the machine then wihtout any ties back to a pc Jan 13 02:07:19 Oh. Jan 13 02:07:25 Yea but... Jan 13 02:07:26 maybe even the bbb but i am still testing stuff Jan 13 02:07:55 I think using the BBB w/ a frontend directly on the board and not on a network would be a mistake. Jan 13 02:08:25 you might be right as the resouces are kinda skimpy Jan 13 02:08:35 It is fun to test but get the service or network attachment. Jan 13 02:08:53 For instance, like cloud9 service. It runs on the board but it is another entity. Jan 13 02:09:27 Light weight is the idea. So, like w/ what I was saying earlier... Jan 13 02:09:50 cloud9 and that stuff is for alot wider group of tasks Jan 13 02:10:07 I tried to compile OpenCV4.x.x and the ram was not enough on one fail swoop. Jan 13 02:10:19 what i want basiclly just has to take a g-code file and interpret it and run the motions Jan 13 02:10:24 I had to figure out a way to get rid of the cache and some other things. Jan 13 02:10:27 Right-o! Jan 13 02:10:51 But...like w/ my point here. OpenCV is not light weight. Jan 13 02:10:55 if you can handle cross-compiling its a much better way of going Jan 13 02:11:04 normally thats what i do Jan 13 02:11:14 It uses a lot of resources on the board. Jan 13 02:11:20 i just wanted to see what the bbb would do before it choked Jan 13 02:11:32 Where did it choke to you? Jan 13 02:11:34 so i built linuxcnc to see what it would do Jan 13 02:11:37 Oh. Jan 13 02:11:59 1st it died about halfway thru compiling a couple of the bigger chunck Jan 13 02:12:06 Oh. Jan 13 02:12:08 Hmm. Jan 13 02:12:13 sticking a swap file onto the system tho fixed that up Jan 13 02:12:29 Ya. Not light weight, I guess. I am not sure how you figured that out. Jan 13 02:12:32 took about 2 hours to compile linuxcnc which is 32bit Jan 13 02:12:37 Ha. Jan 13 02:12:41 Not bad. Jan 13 02:12:51 on a normal linux box that takes me about 1/2 hour Jan 13 02:12:59 so all things consided its not that bak Jan 13 02:13:14 Right. Jan 13 02:13:15 I know. Jan 13 02:13:23 linuxcnc. Jan 13 02:13:24 Hmm. Jan 13 02:13:27 i had to put a deskttop on it tho to make linuxcnc run Jan 13 02:13:31 I never once tried that out. Jan 13 02:13:35 Right. Jan 13 02:13:44 on hdmi it actually runs Jan 13 02:13:47 kinda slow Jan 13 02:13:52 By itself? Jan 13 02:13:56 yep Jan 13 02:14:05 You mean the actual footage is slow? Jan 13 02:14:11 on remote desktop tho it takes alot longer to start up Jan 13 02:14:16 Right. Jan 13 02:14:22 I know. I test like that at times. Jan 13 02:15:04 so tomorrow night when i got time to stay up much later i am going to yank the x11 and desktop and see if i can get x11 over ssh working Jan 13 02:15:12 Nice. Jan 13 02:15:15 Do it! Jan 13 02:15:22 Sorry. Jan 13 02:15:34 that way the bbb while running linuxcnc should use my desktops screen Jan 13 02:15:53 Aw. Maybe a Cape could work \w/ it? Jan 13 02:15:54 im curious as to see if its any faster that way Jan 13 02:16:06 W/ hdmi? Jan 13 02:16:28 currentlty it works with hdmi Jan 13 02:16:49 just have to be choosy with the type of panel mode you try and use in linuxcnc Jan 13 02:17:05 I am going to try linuxcnc too one day. Jan 13 02:17:19 I thought it was for older kernels. Jan 13 02:17:30 i want to see tho if i can get my ssh to forward x11 Jan 13 02:17:48 that way then i don't need to have the desktop on the bbb Jan 13 02:17:49 not w/ PuTTY. Maybe w/ Debian. Jan 13 02:17:53 Right! Jan 13 02:18:07 right now when i try it Jan 13 02:18:20 it comes up but bogs down while forming the display Jan 13 02:18:33 i think its because i still have xfce4 on the bbb Jan 13 02:18:40 Right. I saw a thing for Camera displays on digikey techforum. Jan 13 02:18:57 i need to remove all the x11 stuff accept a couple of the librarys Jan 13 02:19:04 Right. You need something like gnome or another one for Debian. Jan 13 02:19:19 that way then the x11 forwarding on the ssh connection wont interfer with the desktop Jan 13 02:19:27 there is no support for xfce4. Jan 13 02:19:34 Right. Jan 13 02:19:47 oh ya i can make xfce4 work on the bbb Jan 13 02:19:55 No. NOt that... Jan 13 02:19:57 it currently works on my setup Jan 13 02:20:00 It works on the BBB. Jan 13 02:20:13 just slow Jan 13 02:20:35 I am saying that w/ x11 forwarding and things, you may need support for gnome instead of xfce4 b/c of Debian. Jan 13 02:20:53 aw... Jan 13 02:21:14 Debian does not support it. Now, if you can figure it out, awesome. But, I am pretty sure I read that the other day. Jan 13 02:21:31 k... you may be right but i think i can make it work as use xfce4 on my debian machines all the time Jan 13 02:21:47 x11... Jan 13 02:21:48 Oh. Jan 13 02:21:51 your right tho as its not normally native Jan 13 02:21:57 i had to build it all Jan 13 02:22:00 I was thinking of something different. No. you are right. Jan 13 02:22:13 I was thinking of wayland. Jan 13 02:22:20 which i dont mind as i prefer to build my own stuff anyways Jan 13 02:22:29 x11 - wayland - aw! Jan 13 02:22:34 ya wayland is becoming more popular Jan 13 02:22:48 They need more docs. Jan 13 02:22:55 but comes with limitations as there still lots of things that don't work right with it Jan 13 02:23:04 I noticed. Jan 13 02:23:14 SOmeone has to be good at it already. Jan 13 02:24:01 Like w/ putting a LCD display on the BBB w/ wayland and x11 forwarding... Jan 13 02:24:28 i can't rember which one it was but i had some pcb cad software that was giving me nothing but grief till i yanked the wayland and put xorg back on Jan 13 02:24:43 W/ a bg of a service, it can run and be online as a server app. Jan 13 02:24:45 Hmm. Jan 13 02:24:56 now when i install debian i tell it to not use wayland Jan 13 02:25:02 Oh. Jan 13 02:25:04 Why? Jan 13 02:25:14 GPU! Jan 13 02:25:26 It is the newest fad! Jan 13 02:25:32 I think? Jan 13 02:25:37 i think its just not fully supported on all software yet Jan 13 02:25:47 Aw. THat makes more sense. Jan 13 02:26:24 in some ways its kinda like the systemd vs systV debate Jan 13 02:26:32 Ha. Jan 13 02:26:44 i now a few that really like the wayland as it works with all the apps they use Jan 13 02:26:44 Out w/ the _______ and in w/ the ________. Jan 13 02:26:53 Oh. Jan 13 02:27:03 others seem to just complain about it Jan 13 02:27:20 Well... Jan 13 02:27:34 It is like one person or a group learns about what has been available. Jan 13 02:27:42 i tend to just install something outta the box and then if i find something that don't work for me make my choice then Jan 13 02:27:45 Then...BANG/CHANGE. Jan 13 02:28:14 That makes more sense than anything I ever read about electronics. Jan 13 02:28:16 some just like having the newest Jan 13 02:28:30 in my younger days i was like that Jan 13 02:28:40 I just want a new Cape to come out! Jan 13 02:28:56 One w/ at least five steppers. Ha. Jan 13 02:29:03 now i just stick to what works for me and don't worry about the new stuff unless theres something specific i want in the newer stuff Jan 13 02:29:22 Oh. Yea. That is reasonable. Hey...I will brb. Jan 13 02:29:24 brb! Jan 13 02:29:43 no probs im gonna go grab a drink Jan 13 02:35:11 Okay. Jan 13 02:35:40 so you playing a bbb or ai? Jan 13 02:36:04 Some of both when I can...I have a BBGW w/ a Display Cape on it. Jan 13 02:36:16 I have been goofing w/ it recently. Jan 13 02:36:30 whats green like? Jan 13 02:36:34 I am thinking I can stack. Jan 13 02:36:41 A little different. Jan 13 02:36:53 No hdmi and it has two grove connectors. Jan 13 02:37:01 Some other differences too. Jan 13 02:37:20 One has only ethernet and one has only wifi. Jan 13 02:37:36 Like the BBB and BBBW. Jan 13 02:37:45 k Jan 13 02:38:36 But...they use a lot of pin functionality outside of what the BBB and BBBW uses b/c of "whatever." "Whatever" is basically wifi on the BBGW and for grove connectors on both the BBG and BBGW. Jan 13 02:39:05 They have the same SoC. Jan 13 02:39:29 and then Seeed came out w/ a BBGG. It has both wifi and ethernet. Jan 13 02:39:50 It works w/ Capes still and has a rtc on it. Jan 13 02:40:32 I am going to do more one day but I still want to learn how to program better in case the day comes when I am in charge of me... Jan 13 02:40:33 Ha. Jan 13 02:40:50 haha Jan 13 02:40:52 I am still being led by books. Jan 13 02:41:15 I read and try to make their ideas functional or up to date if the books are older. Jan 13 02:41:54 I get other books outside of the BBB world and try to incorporate what I have learned into the BBB realm of boards. Jan 13 02:42:17 ya i know what you mean... i swear i got more books then some library's, thank god for the internet and the ability to find and download information Jan 13 02:42:38 I am a leech for knowledge when I do too much physical work. Jan 13 02:42:52 jumping around subjects is always a big issue for me Jan 13 02:43:03 When i get lazy, I just scrap everything planned instead of hunkering down and learning more. Jan 13 02:43:04 Same here. Jan 13 02:43:05 so i never really become a expert on anyone thing Jan 13 02:43:14 Same. Jan 13 02:43:16 kinda a jack of all but master of none Jan 13 02:43:18 lol Jan 13 02:43:22 Yep. Jan 13 02:43:28 I am that way...for sure. Jan 13 02:43:58 I picked up a bunch of books but they all are a bit similar. Jan 13 02:44:07 They start w/ hello world, of course. Jan 13 02:44:37 Then, they go into the writer's idea of what he/she wants you to know about what they have learned. Jan 13 02:45:02 I never find out what I have been here to learn. Jan 13 02:45:09 ive got a few buds that university trained in computer stuff and they still come and bug me when the get stuck as most of the stuff not really taught conventionaly seems to be the stuff i am always into Jan 13 02:45:32 i get lost in the stuff they get taught as i am self taught Jan 13 02:45:58 It is like, "What about that day I learned this...and what happened to that day and learning achievements?" Jan 13 02:45:59 Aw. Jan 13 02:46:08 but because of my lack of formal training i tend to think outside the box as i don't no where the rules are Jan 13 02:46:26 yea. I really did not take a bunch classes on computers. Jan 13 02:46:40 But, everyone knows this here about me. Jan 13 02:46:41 i just look at pretty much everything from the point that if someone or some group of dudes built it then someone else should be able to take it apart Jan 13 02:46:59 Yep. That too! Jan 13 02:47:47 So, give me your schematic. Leech! Jan 13 02:47:51 Just kiddin'. Jan 13 02:47:53 Ha. Jan 13 02:48:12 i tend to find something i want to do and jump in with both feet and never look outside that box but then i get bored and move onto the next thing that interests me Jan 13 02:48:30 so one never really completes the whole picture Jan 13 02:49:14 But... Jan 13 02:50:06 When you say, "whole picture," why would one want to finish? Finishing is death. Jan 13 02:50:18 Keep it groovy. Jan 13 02:50:20 lol Jan 13 02:50:57 Hey! Jan 13 02:51:02 I know... Jan 13 02:52:06 my drive comes from being one of those types that just wants to know how something is actually made Jan 13 02:52:23 once i get to that point i get bored and find something else to play with Jan 13 02:52:43 to understand how its made usually means as well how it works Jan 13 02:53:08 buzzmarshall: Are you C * P' ing a development procedure from Sears? Jan 13 02:53:40 Hello? Jan 13 02:53:45 Man...stop. Jan 13 02:53:47 Start. Jan 13 02:53:54 back in late 98 i was doing some mechanical work in a wafer lab and got fascinated in chips Jan 13 02:54:14 then spend the next 10 years reversing smartcard chips Jan 13 02:54:34 bought the microscopes and learned lowlevel fab stuff Jan 13 02:55:00 trying to understand small 8bit mcu's on wafers about 3/8" square Jan 13 02:55:30 Forget it. I am sorry. People make me kneel in dirt for a living. Although this might not make sense, I am super fascinated by learning things and this means electronics, not-kneeling-in-dir, and BBB stuff. Jan 13 02:55:44 I get it. Jan 13 02:55:50 Okay. I get it. Jan 13 02:55:58 But...why should I quit? Jan 13 02:56:44 just yapping... don't bother me anyway Jan 13 02:56:47 *not-kneeling-in-dirt Jan 13 02:56:48 Oh. Jan 13 02:56:49 Okay. Jan 13 02:56:53 No issue then. Jan 13 02:56:59 hopefully not breaking the channel rules Jan 13 02:57:02 :) Jan 13 02:57:03 Nope. Jan 13 02:57:07 But, I have! Jan 13 02:57:22 I broke 'em and I bend 'em like Becky! Jan 13 02:57:31 haha Jan 13 02:57:31 Oops. Jan 13 02:57:54 buzzmarshall: have you ever met GenTooMan? Jan 13 02:58:03 normally most of these places are pretty much dead and once and awhile its good to entertain people Jan 13 02:58:11 Right-O! Jan 13 02:58:20 ive seen him around here but not really chatted Jan 13 02:58:37 People get tired of reading when it is just two ole timers kickin' it. Jan 13 02:58:38 actually this is probably the most ive ever yapped since being on here Jan 13 02:58:47 Nice! Jan 13 02:58:54 how long have you been here? Jan 13 02:59:05 usually i like to sit and watch while i work on stuff Jan 13 02:59:09 Oh. Jan 13 02:59:13 hm... not long a couple of months Jan 13 02:59:15 I should be scared. Yikes. Jan 13 02:59:25 Oh. Jan 13 02:59:26 Okay. Jan 13 02:59:31 but i was sitting in a couple of other channels here Jan 13 02:59:35 So, maybe you have not seen all my follies. Jan 13 02:59:39 Oh. Jan 13 02:59:41 Okay. Jan 13 02:59:48 amlogics and libreelec mostly media stuff Jan 13 02:59:54 Got it. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 13 02:59:57 2021