**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 10 02:59:58 2021 Apr 10 03:00:11 Do not use 5v source on pins on the BBBlue. Or 7.4v for that matter! Apr 10 03:00:15 Or 5v! Apr 10 03:01:18 I contacted some co's to see if I can get refunded or if the FrSKy receiver puts out 3.3v on the SBus 'Signal' pin. Apr 10 03:01:25 I need to test it in a bit. Apr 10 03:01:52 Everything is wired up and I will need to disassemble it real quickly. Apr 10 03:02:18 This could be a newbie error, i.e. ones that i make at times. Apr 10 03:03:52 I should have known, man. Test, plug, and then power. Not plug, power, and test. Apr 10 03:03:55 Argh! Apr 10 03:04:36 Oh! ArduPilot has a new thing called Blimp! Apr 10 03:04:42 I might have to make a blimp! Apr 10 03:06:55 'That is some hot air!' Apr 10 03:07:31 oft times you meant? Apr 10 03:07:55 blimp and hot air aren't a good combination Apr 10 03:08:04 Led Zepplin? Apr 10 03:08:25 What is used? Apr 10 03:08:31 Hellium? Apr 10 03:10:02 It is just inflated. Odd. Apr 10 03:10:16 dirigibles! Apr 10 03:10:41 blimp are inflated dirigbles have internal boyancy control bladders. Apr 10 03:11:00 Gas! Apr 10 03:11:11 I wonder... Apr 10 03:11:18 What exact type of gas... Apr 10 03:11:31 What? Apr 10 03:11:34 Nice. Apr 10 03:12:05 So, a controlled bladder of gas either gets injected or removed by an opening? Apr 10 03:12:42 Valve of some sort, I am sure. But...then one needs flaps and propeller. Apr 10 03:12:58 Man. Those things are more complicated than previously thought. Apr 10 03:13:11 No wonder children say, "Blimp!" Apr 10 03:15:02 https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/a3538/4278917/ <<< L: Apr 10 04:24:56 the hindenberg had hydrogen because helium was a strategic material at the time. That's why it caught fire and went up in flames. Apr 10 04:26:24 as for inject etc. tanks on board were used to manage "gas" in the bladders/ bags. Very light gas is very difficult to contain, because he passes through most materials. Apr 10 04:28:30 Oh. Apr 10 04:31:13 a dirigible has an internal frame where as a blimp' Apr 10 04:31:20 is an inflated bag. Apr 10 04:32:01 Aw. Hmm. People online seem to think that a blimp or dirigeble is interchangeable. Apr 10 04:32:21 set_ ignorance is bliss so why aren't they happy? Apr 10 04:32:34 B/c...they are wrong? Apr 10 04:32:58 the goodyear "Blimp" is a blimp whereas the hindenberg was a dirigible. Apr 10 04:33:07 Aw. Apr 10 04:33:09 Got it. Apr 10 04:33:45 I don't believe there have been dirigibles for a long time.. Apr 10 04:33:55 So, a blimp has inflated air and the dirigeble is gas oriented. Okay. Apr 10 04:33:57 Hmm. Apr 10 04:33:58 Okay. Apr 10 04:34:17 No more dirigibles. Apr 10 04:34:22 No! Apr 10 04:34:45 um no the blimp is inflated with the gas and the dirigible has large bags in it (like balloons) Apr 10 04:34:54 Oh. Apr 10 04:34:58 I got it backwards. Apr 10 04:35:17 I wonder what those links stated now. Apr 10 04:35:18 Hmm. Apr 10 04:35:30 the bags hold "the" gas Apr 10 04:35:37 They may be passing old info. around that is dedicated to '24. Apr 10 04:36:20 the umpteen particles of gas! Apr 10 04:37:09 Baloons of gas seem awkward to condition. Apr 10 04:37:47 For instance, why would it have been a "thing" at all if it was too dangerous? Apr 10 04:39:01 Speaking of dangerous, I just stick welded an axle for my bot. The stick weld came undone. Someone wanted to test it out. The sprocket and chain came off. Apr 10 04:39:15 Now, I need to bend the axle to get the sproket back on. Boo! Apr 10 04:39:58 I am not dealing w/ that chain business for long. I just had to push the rods through and reattach them. Apr 10 04:41:06 I do subpar work so me and other people can work all day on fixin' things! Apr 10 04:41:12 Ha. Apr 10 04:41:44 Learn how to fix...ha. Fix it! THat is how. Apr 10 06:51:00 Plan Y in effect! Apr 10 17:10:29 Well, today is the day of the Faire. I am sorry to say that I have to leave BELA behind. Boo! I know but I just did not have enough time. Apr 10 17:11:08 The BBBlue will be in the forefront in a non-working order until we can 'figure out' how to fix it! Apr 10 17:11:21 Trials and tribulations, man! It is what it is all about... Apr 10 17:12:35 Hopefully, someone can put me to work or if a real knowledgeable person arrives, maybe they can direct! Action! Apr 10 17:13:44 Oh! And this city is finally going to have a Maker Space for builders and users. It opens today! Apr 10 17:15:10 GenTooMan: Still no wifi. Boo! Just power but that will do! Apr 10 17:17:35 2.4Ghz in Louisiana is scarce. Ha. Apr 10 17:19:37 hey the other day when you were talking about Android on the beagles... i meant to say after mentioning the headless attempts that i doubt it will ever happen as all the other boards like the Allwinners, Rockchips, and Amlogic boards had canned versions created for their products so using the licenced android blobs was done for linux on those boards by putting a wrapper around the blob Apr 10 17:20:01 to my knowledge there has never been a licenced version canned or not for the beagles Apr 10 17:20:10 so theres no blobs to even start from Apr 10 17:20:49 so to make android run on the ti processor/gpu would require a from the ground up code attempt Apr 10 17:21:15 making the filesystem run (headless) is easier tho and a whole nother story Apr 10 17:21:19 Boo! Apr 10 17:21:33 anyways... i just wanted to let you know why its not around Apr 10 17:21:43 Thank you for the update. Apr 10 17:21:47 np Apr 10 17:22:02 I am glad I did not jump back in that realm of porting. Apr 10 17:22:07 how'd you make out with your blue? Apr 10 17:22:37 after i seen your talk i went and actually looked at the blue and didn't realize just how much different they are then what i am playing with Apr 10 17:22:45 Broke two, have one left, and it is still intact to peform a flying bot 'fixer-upper.' Apr 10 17:22:56 Oh, right. Apr 10 17:22:59 so i probably made the whole serial rig sound simpler then it really is on that board Apr 10 17:23:06 Right... Apr 10 17:23:38 I was wondering which pin on that board actually handles the tx, rx, gnd, and pwr (3.3v) for the serial to usb dongle. Apr 10 17:23:43 the bbb and bbai just have a couple of pins to connect 3 wires to a level converter and then use something like putty Apr 10 17:23:48 Right. Apr 10 17:24:13 i am sure there should be a way of doing something similar on the blue its just not something that i have done Apr 10 17:24:53 Me neither. I will have to be patient w/ my last-only-working BBBlue. Apr 10 17:25:06 using a serial connection tho really helps you see exactly whats doing on with the hardware and if its even getting started or not Apr 10 17:25:22 I do not want to jack this one up by accident... Apr 10 17:26:05 ya its best not to mess around to much until you have a pretty solid plan to try Apr 10 17:26:05 Yea. I never really got into boot processes but I think knowing it is a good idea. Apr 10 17:26:12 Right. Apr 10 17:26:39 well looking at that level will at least let you see if the soc is actually fully starting or not Apr 10 17:26:58 Right. I think the PRU got a high voltage. Apr 10 17:26:59 and if that shows nothing then you need to start with the scope and board tools Apr 10 17:27:17 Which in turn, disabled the am335x. Apr 10 17:27:48 ya higher voltages definately can mess things up if your not carefull Apr 10 17:27:53 I contacted mouser before I fully thought things through. Apr 10 17:27:58 you can't give PRU a high voltage, PRU runs on the (1.1V) core voltage supply Apr 10 17:28:06 Oh. Apr 10 17:28:14 Hmm. Apr 10 17:28:26 there ya go... that at least sounds promising Apr 10 17:28:32 So, the ARM allocates power to the PRU? Apr 10 17:28:33 you might perhaps mean you exposed I/O to a high voltage, which can indeed destroy the I/O cell and take the am335x with it Apr 10 17:28:41 Oh. Apr 10 17:28:42 Yes. Apr 10 17:29:02 The I/O pin for the PRU may have had some external, high voltage outside of 3.3v. Apr 10 17:29:31 what the I/O pin is used for (PRU) is irrelevant for this, it's the I/O cell that takes the hit, not whatever the pin is used for Apr 10 17:29:46 Oh. Okay. Apr 10 17:30:20 So, on the chip, this specific blob of silver/silicon just fries and dies? Apr 10 17:30:23 the most common result of damaging a pin using overvoltage is the board no longer powering up (power led blinks briefly) Apr 10 17:30:33 Right. Apr 10 17:30:39 That is exactly what is going on. Apr 10 17:31:07 (due to the damaged I/O cell creating a short-circuit on a power supply rail inside the AM335x) Apr 10 17:31:26 I never did this to a board before...so. I am a bit overwhelmed w/ thoughts and ideas. Apr 10 17:31:30 Okay. Apr 10 17:31:40 Oh! Apr 10 17:32:04 The power rail is inside the am335x. Yikes. Delicate stuff and I just fed it who knows what w/out thinking about it. Apr 10 17:32:06 we've fried plenty of boards Apr 10 17:32:55 and yes, SoCs like the AM335x are indeed delicate, and the expansion header pins connect directly to it without any kind of protection Apr 10 17:33:20 Right but I have been extra precautious and moving slowly mostly. So, I need to test the pin before the RMA. Apr 10 17:33:38 there's no practical way to do so, since the board doesn't power up Apr 10 17:33:56 See, I already asked the Mouser people for a return. So, I am knowing now it is my fault. Apr 10 17:34:27 I need to contact them. Their explanation section only left me with 90 words. Apr 10 17:34:35 There is no way to explain in 90 words. Apr 10 17:35:27 So, I got excited, plugged the PRU in pin in w/ a wire that lead to a higher voltage source. Dang it! Apr 10 17:35:42 Rookie over here! Apr 10 17:36:08 if the power led flashes briefly when power is connected (with nothing connected to the beaglebone's other ports) then you can consider the board dead Apr 10 17:36:16 What fooled me was that when I shutdown the board gracefully, everything was okay. Apr 10 17:36:17 Okay. Apr 10 17:36:19 well, or the power source sucks Apr 10 17:36:20 Dead board. Great. Apr 10 17:36:24 Ha. Apr 10 17:36:25 right. Apr 10 17:37:03 Then I booted by applying power and notta. Apr 10 17:37:35 Dang circuits ruining my fun! This was as easy of a circuit as one could derive. Apr 10 17:38:33 It was PRU in, Power out on the Servo Headers, and GPS, some 3.3v logic out, and the LiPo supply. Apr 10 17:39:00 if the beaglebone is powered on, the absolute maximum voltage permitted on its I/O is 3.6V Apr 10 17:39:15 if it's powered off then the absolute maximum voltage permitted on its I/O is 0.3V Apr 10 17:39:30 (i.e. in either case max 0.3V above its 3.3V supply) Apr 10 17:40:04 and of course you should generally aim to just not exceed the 3.3V supply at all Apr 10 17:40:31 I will power this rx module and see if the out pin is indeed 3.3v like previously thought (and of course I did not test) or above... Apr 10 17:40:53 oh this is a beaglebone blue? Apr 10 17:40:58 yes. Apr 10 17:44:33 its GPS header is really hazardous... it provides a 5V supply (for the GSM module) that isn't turned off when the beaglebone shuts down Apr 10 17:46:15 which makes it a trap, since if the GSM remains powered if the beaglebone shuts down (e.g. using the "poweroff" command) then the GSM module will probably continue to drive its signal into the AM335x, which is bad Apr 10 17:48:47 so basically: if a GSM module is attached, don't shut down the beaglebone, instead just cut power by removing the battery and 12V connections, or disconnect the GSM module Apr 10 17:49:19 Oh. Apr 10 17:49:25 and of course make absolutely sure the GSM module uses 3.3V communication (I think they typically do, but the fact that the module is powered by 5V makes me nervous) Apr 10 17:49:44 overall I'm not a fan of the Blue's power schematic Apr 10 17:50:11 So, the idea of power off should be LiPo first and then shutdown gracefully? Apr 10 17:50:28 Just in case the GPS module is 5v for some reason. Apr 10 17:50:39 ehm, no Apr 10 17:50:44 Okay. I think and I am pretty sure mine was 3.3v and still is 3.3v. Apr 10 17:50:54 Oh. Apr 10 17:51:03 the GSM module _must_ use 3.3V communication, otherwise you'll blow up the AM335x regardless Apr 10 17:51:10 Right. Okay. Apr 10 17:51:19 It is definitely not the GPS. Apr 10 17:51:28 The GPS is 3.3v. Apr 10 17:51:57 I just saw a brown spider the size of a small tarantula. Apr 10 17:51:58 3.3V communication, 5V power supply Apr 10 17:52:07 at least, if it's powered from the GSM header (pin 5) Apr 10 17:52:09 Hmm. Apr 10 17:52:25 I am using the GPS header on the Blue. Apr 10 17:52:37 which supplies 5V to the GSM module Apr 10 17:52:40 Oh. Apr 10 17:53:03 So, there is a tiny circuit in the mix in between pins and things. Apr 10 17:53:20 Like a LDO or step down? Apr 10 17:53:41 yes the GSM module will generate its own 3.3V power supply Apr 10 17:53:55 Okay. That is news to me. Hmm. Apr 10 17:53:59 just like the beaglebone black is powered by 5V but uses 3.3V for its I/O Apr 10 17:54:04 Right. Apr 10 17:54:05 Okay. Apr 10 17:54:07 Got it. Apr 10 17:54:24 But since the pins are so close, heat can be generated? Apr 10 17:54:28 ???? Apr 10 17:54:47 Well, I say that b/c i have been reading about heat generation on boards. Apr 10 17:54:59 And the incorrect wiring sizes can cause many heat transfer issues. Apr 10 17:55:14 that's more a thing with high-current stuff like motors Apr 10 17:55:21 Oh...okay. Apr 10 17:55:40 So, w/ traces and tiny wires and pins, things are not that hot. Apr 10 17:55:41 Okay. Apr 10 17:57:22 Man. I should have taken a picture of this spider. Apr 10 17:57:41 It looked like it ate all the bugs. Apr 10 17:58:34 I am hopefully going to get some children today to pick up bugs on their journey and return so we can study them. Apr 10 17:58:59 i have a camera w/ 500x zoom on it. Apr 10 17:59:14 So, who knows what nifty parts we can see in high resolution. Apr 10 17:59:53 But @zmatt, thank you for explaining the concern I had w/ what I was not describing well. Apr 10 18:00:12 For the life of me, I could not figure out what exactly happened... Apr 11 01:55:59 hello ya'll Apr 11 01:56:50 I'm looking for Beaglebone experts Apr 11 01:59:21 Davinci93: start with a targeted question :) Apr 11 02:01:04 I'm looking for someone who has experience with beaglebone black (or any other board) that would allow to control 8 stepper motors Apr 11 02:05:59 Davinci93: just asking for someone won't likely get you what you're looking for ... asking a question related to what you're trying to do might Apr 11 02:07:33 One person asked, "How does it work," at the faire. Like this fellow was going to pay attention to 4500 pages of TRM speech. Apr 11 02:08:11 I built a whiskey blending 3D printer like setup with pipets to draw liquids, but am having a hard time finding a decent platform for driving the motors in this rig. Apr 11 02:10:41 I bought Beaglebone black (and even a Replicape Rev B cape (controller board with 5 MOSFETS that can drive 5 motors), but need to be able to control more stepper motors. Apr 11 02:11:17 typical solutions for BBB seem to focus on CNC's and 3D printers that focus on controlling fewer motors. Apr 11 02:11:44 so I'm stuck looking for something that would allow me to control more. Any suggestions? Apr 11 02:12:32 I know of a controller... Apr 11 02:13:19 It is expensive and has many dedicated ideas for 'pigtailing' the same controllers to the original controller. Apr 11 02:13:40 Let me see if I can find it. Apr 11 02:14:59 https://github.com/Teknic-ClearPath/TekTips-BeagleBone-Examples Apr 11 02:15:39 I think you can daisy-chain up to four of their Boards to the BBB for communication, it is sort of like that...let me explain. Apr 11 02:16:14 One board, can be added to the first, another to the second, but not more than four boards, e.g. which has 16 total motors available in rotation. Apr 11 02:16:48 it is an older post but you can update it at will! Apr 11 02:16:56 I got the port to work. Apr 11 02:18:41 If you look at their example for cross-compiling the source for Linux, it works, just use sftp if you are not familiar w/ Eclipse pick and placing. Apr 11 02:22:16 You can use either USB or UART for communication to the boards they produce. Apr 11 02:22:37 The children...I have to cry. Apr 11 02:22:53 The children are being taught common core now. Apr 11 02:23:43 I keep forgetting how machine-like it is currently. He was drawing photos, this child, to figure out math examples for getting the Current of Amps * Voltage. Apr 11 02:24:30 and that's why I'm looking for a SME in this. I don't have experience with controllers and boards. I can code in Python, but that's where my journey ends. I'd gladly pay someone to help me punch through this wall I'm stuck at now Apr 11 02:25:04 Oh. Not me. I will do it for free! Apr 11 02:25:47 You pay the cost of the products, I try to learn how your communicate, and then I will attempt to teach you what you already know. Apr 11 02:26:30 All jokes aside, I know you are in a bind. Apr 11 02:26:47 I can tell. Why do you need to have so many motors? Apr 11 02:29:13 I mean, you need servos or definitely steppers? Apr 11 02:29:42 Hello? Apr 11 02:30:25 3 motors for axis control, 1 for the elevator up and down for the pipettes, 2 motors for pipette volume control, 1 motor for the plunger for the pipettes Apr 11 02:30:46 sorry, wife yelling in the back about dishes or something, lol Apr 11 02:31:07 Ha. Apr 11 02:31:08 so 3 +1+2+1, so 6 motors is what I need Apr 11 02:31:08 Okay. Apr 11 02:31:37 That would only take two of the Teknic boards but you will need to make cables, get a power supply, and learn .cpp file formatting. Apr 11 02:31:43 but may need extra for additional functionality (I don't want to box myself into a solution that couldn't grow) Apr 11 02:32:32 Davinci93: If no one helps you here, look at Teknic. They have tons of people so eager to help and make sales. Apr 11 02:32:47 You can use the BBB w/ the Teknic stuff. Apr 11 02:33:28 So, if you wanted to promote UART comm. via the P9 Header on the BBB, done w/ their boards. Apr 11 02:34:27 ok, I'll check them out Apr 11 02:34:45 I appreciate your help. I hate to be stuck with this Apr 11 02:34:45 Did you look over the link yet? Apr 11 02:35:10 It is just a github.com repo. but they must be a mediocre sized co. Apr 11 02:35:36 Someone contacted me via phone in hours, not days. So, I know they have support people. Apr 11 02:35:48 But... Apr 11 02:36:03 If you find another route, let me know. I would like to find other boards to use w/ the BBB. Apr 11 02:36:21 I'm looking at github repo now Apr 11 02:36:31 Okay. Apr 11 02:37:32 I found https://wiki.thing-printer.com/index.php?title=Replicape_rev_B  this board - Replicape, but it does only 5 steppers Apr 11 02:37:57 I figured maybe I can control 5 with this board and a separate driver straight from the BBB Apr 11 02:41:56 Okay. Apr 11 02:42:16 The REplicape has been put on hold w/ the mfg. and dev. team updating to a new board. Apr 11 02:42:56 And the source is difficult for new users who are not used to the Klipper source. Apr 11 02:43:14 I mean, you can read it and be updated. Apr 11 02:43:41 Davinci93: Do you know if they still sell those Capes? Apr 11 02:44:53 I don't think they do, it seems that the page shows out of stock for months Apr 11 02:45:39 Right. The people, that dev. team, have made a new board called Recore. Apr 11 02:46:00 I think they are still working out the kinks but it may be available for purchase. Apr 11 02:46:22 yup, I was just looking at that now... still need to control more motors Apr 11 02:46:46 I have not found anything that can control 16 motors yet unless you make it. Apr 11 02:47:18 There are some books out there discussing motor drivers and the BBB. Apr 11 02:47:39 I have found some nice drivers w/ good datasheets for attempting builds. Apr 11 02:48:07 I'm afraid there's not much activity on their slack (replicape) so it doensn't look too good. teknic is starting to look more and more interesting :) Apr 11 02:48:13 support is key Apr 11 02:48:22 Oh. Apr 11 02:48:25 Look at Discord. Apr 11 02:48:33 They are on discord now. Apr 11 02:48:59 If you need support, those Teknic people are hard to beat. Apr 11 02:49:06 They even use the phone still. Apr 11 02:50:08 how much are Teknic boards? Apr 11 02:50:13 But, I suggest... Apr 11 02:50:18 Expensive! Apr 11 02:50:30 And their other components are just as such. Apr 11 02:50:49 The motors alone are over $250.00. Apr 11 02:50:56 yikes Apr 11 02:51:03 The board, I think is less. Apr 11 02:51:06 for a custom design like that your probably gonna have a tough time finding a plug&play setup Apr 11 02:51:08 Like $45.00. Apr 11 02:51:23 most typical boards are in the range your at now (5) Apr 11 02:51:30 6 in some cases Apr 11 02:51:50 CRAMPS, like that one? Apr 11 02:52:01 hardwares one part but then software for the embedded board is another thing Apr 11 02:52:16 Right. Those drivers are not free. Apr 11 02:52:28 i have a cramps board but its still small Apr 11 02:52:45 Oh. I always wanted to build one. Apr 11 02:52:51 which is why i am doing my own board which is modular Apr 11 02:52:58 Nice. Apr 11 02:53:14 Well Davinci93, there you go. Apr 11 02:53:14 not much choice for what i needed Apr 11 02:53:21 Build one! Apr 11 02:53:36 Yea. Niche market calls for specifics. Apr 11 02:53:49 i looked at the replicape/revolve and its newer recore but there hard to find Apr 11 02:54:13 Right...I have found that to be true. But, their designs are available. Apr 11 02:54:16 and i really don't want something with drivers smd'd on the board Apr 11 02:54:25 Oh. Why? Apr 11 02:54:35 cramps was all i could find Apr 11 02:54:48 No, I mean smd'd? Apr 11 02:54:59 You want them built in? Apr 11 02:55:19 basically i am just using the cramps to handle the control distro and not using the existing onboard drivers Apr 11 02:55:27 @set_ dude... thank you for pointing me to Teknic. I think this is the way. ;) Apr 11 02:55:28 to hard to replace Apr 11 02:55:40 Oh. Okay. Apr 11 02:55:55 and depending on the motors you use sometimes you want different drivers Apr 11 02:56:04 Davinci93: No issue, I am sure those New Yaukers can help in some fashion. Apr 11 02:56:30 bussmarshall: Right, not every motor has to be identical. Apr 11 02:57:50 for me tho i have designed a modular board around ti's drv 8711 control Apr 11 02:57:59 Nice. Apr 11 02:58:24 So, you have plug in drv's? Apr 11 02:58:31 researching Teknic now... lol they even built a cocktail machine using their gear. lol. destiny is pushing me in the right direction. Apr 11 02:58:38 That is neat. Like arduino capes? Apr 11 02:58:38 ive got a 4 color filiament 3d printer Apr 11 02:59:11 so it took way more then marlin and any of the typcial 3d printer controllers can do Apr 11 02:59:24 Davinci93: Be careful on their motors. They get up in cost and quickly. Apr 11 02:59:45 will their boards work only with their own motors? Apr 11 02:59:51 No! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 11 02:59:56 2021