**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 22 02:59:59 2012
Jun 22 03:43:12 <PatrickC> fxspec06: i have new android phones that i can test stuff on if you need
Jun 22 03:43:21 <PatrickC> i have everything but the ifone :) and i have friends with those
Jun 22 04:05:51 <fxspec06> i don't need android testing, i need kindle fire testing
Jun 22 04:19:26 <EricBlade> hey i can run two copies of SynerGV on Chrome at the same time, one logged into each of my accounts. neat
Jun 22 05:14:14 * rrix just got home from giving this presentation at the local mobile developer meetup: http://phxmobi.nodester.com/
Jun 22 12:37:19 <bigbluehat> madnificent: what about Apache Cordova in place of PhoneGap?
Jun 22 12:37:41 <bigbluehat> unwiredben: are there plans to write-up bootplate distro to webOS at all?
Jun 22 14:20:17 <madnificent> bigbluehat: not getting where you're trying to tell me
Jun 22 14:21:29 <bigbluehat> re: licensing
Jun 22 14:21:43 <bigbluehat> Cordova == Phonegap
Jun 22 14:21:55 <madnificent> ah, i said something about the pricing, i think
Jun 22 14:22:37 <madnificent> i don't know enough of it.  which is unsettling enough to postpone development.  in the sense that i don't have *that* much time to learn/build stuff :)
Jun 22 14:22:57 <madnificent> but cordova is equal to phonegap?  or is it similar?
Jun 22 14:23:12 <madnificent> as in it *is* phonegap, or is it similar
Jun 22 14:28:40 <fxspec06> it is
Jun 22 14:28:47 <fxspec06> cordova is phonegap.
Jun 22 14:28:58 <fxspec06> it's like saying yeast is bread
Jun 22 14:29:15 <fxspec06> bread was yeast before it became bread. and bread is still yeast
Jun 22 14:29:56 <fxspec06> cordova is codename for phonegap. the project was orignally called the cordova project
Jun 22 14:30:11 <fxspec06> phonegap is just the proper name
Jun 22 14:45:01 <unwiredben> bigbluehat: yes, we will do some work to support webOS, probably timed around the Open webOS release this fall.
Jun 22 14:45:15 <unwiredben> maybe sooner, depending on what we can get done for the 2.0 "release"
Jun 22 14:46:06 <unwiredben> cordova is the root tech, phonegap is a distribution of it.  Right now, phonegap doesn't have anything extra on top of cordova, but it could in the future
Jun 22 14:46:48 <unwiredben> actually, PhoneGap was the original name.  Cordova was adopted when Adobe bought Nitobi and assigned the project to the Apache Foundation
Jun 22 14:48:13 <unwiredben> they couldn't keep the Phonegap name because of trademark issues, so they ended up naming it after a street near the Nitobi HQ
Jun 22 14:52:59 <bigbluehat> fxspec06: Apache Cordova is also the version of Phonegap Adobe donated to the Apache foundation: http://incubator.apache.org/cordova
Jun 22 14:53:47 <bigbluehat> unwiredben: great to know
Jun 22 14:54:12 <bigbluehat> I think what's confusing/frustrating from the "outside" is this "long dark of Moria" while we wait for September to get here
Jun 22 14:55:13 <bigbluehat> on a bad day, it *feels* like webOS is abandon, Open webOS is smoke and mirrors, and that in the end it's a vague attempt for HP to keep its foot in the door while it makes up its mind
Jun 22 14:56:35 <unwiredben> yeah I understand that... however, activity is continuing
Jun 22 15:03:27 <fxspec06> interesting
Jun 22 15:05:20 <madnificent> bigbluehat: it might be abandonware, i still don't find myself booting into (or staying in) android on my touchpad.  even though i have the options to do so.
Jun 22 15:05:50 <madnificent> bigbluehat: so apparently, there are *enough* apps to make me prefer webos over android
Jun 22 15:06:44 <madnificent> bigbluehat: it's only related to abandonware, i know.  but i still think webos is worth the hassle.  and i still don't see why devices wouldn't appear in the future.
Jun 22 15:07:11 <madnificent> google isn't the biggest friend of every big firm, and microsoft (knowingly) took everybody in their anus by surprise.
Jun 22 15:24:35 <bigbluehat> unwiredben: yeah, I know it's "active" and stuff is "progressing"
Jun 22 15:24:51 <bigbluehat> I just don't know what that means to me as a webOS (on a TouchPad) user
Jun 22 15:25:16 <bigbluehat> especially one who actually bought the device *this* February to "get involved" with developing for/with Open webOS
Jun 22 15:25:33 <bigbluehat> at this point, it's not even clear if I'll be able to run Open webOS 1.0 on my TouchPad :(
Jun 22 15:25:50 <bigbluehat> madnificent: I also can't leave the webOS side of my TouchPad for long :)
Jun 22 15:25:57 <bigbluehat> Android's just....not it for me
Jun 22 15:26:10 <bigbluehat> ...what my not be clear in all this ranting is that I *love* webOS
Jun 22 15:26:13 <bigbluehat> and want it to succeed
Jun 22 15:26:41 <bigbluehat> and hopefully I can find a place to help make that happen...somehow...
Jun 22 15:28:59 <madnificent> bigbluehat: if they aren't going to support the touchpad and the veer for openwebos, then that might actually do it for me.  but i think they will (why else make it?)
Jun 22 15:29:43 <bigbluehat> madnificent: why make a new EnyoJS version and not take a bit more time to make it run on webOS?
Jun 22 15:29:44 <madnificent> bigbluehat: though i couldn't care less if they made it official and push it over the air and all that.  that's a lot of legal stuff you need to abide, so i'd find it reasonable if that wasn't there
Jun 22 15:30:08 <bigbluehat> yeah, I'm completely cool if Open webOS 1.0 is "hackers only"
Jun 22 15:30:13 <madnificent> bigbluehat: because our browser/rendering engine will change with openwebos and become more android-compatible.  that's my reasoning
Jun 22 15:30:16 <bigbluehat> as long as it runs on the TouchPad
Jun 22 15:31:19 <bigbluehat> I guess to put it a different way, I don't have a problem with what *is* being said, I'm confused/frustrated/disillusioned by what *isn't* being said
Jun 22 15:31:30 <bigbluehat> I'm *very* glad EnyoJS 2.0 runs in all the places it does
Jun 22 15:31:40 <bigbluehat> I'm also glad that (with some fiddling) you can make it work on webOS
Jun 22 15:32:31 <bigbluehat> it'd just be nice to have a bridge or even just some carrots...to help me "hang tight" with my Touchpad while I watch/wait for Open webOS and places I can contribute
Jun 22 16:00:03 <unwiredben> we do try to support it, but the marketshare for developers that we want to attact are on other devices, ones with better WebKit implementations
Jun 22 16:00:24 <unwiredben> however, Project Isis is a newer/better WebKit implementation, so that's good news
Jun 22 16:00:53 <unwiredben> the hacks needed to support webOS as a first class citizen take time that we could use to finish out features
Jun 22 16:01:12 <unwiredben> but we have done things like hire Jay Canuck as an intern this summer to work (partially) on webOS support
Jun 22 16:11:02 <bigbluehat> unwiredben: all great to know
Jun 22 16:11:14 <bigbluehat> that'd make a *fabulous* blog post on openwebosproject.com and enyojs.com
Jun 22 16:11:20 <bigbluehat> would've saved me a rant ;)
Jun 22 16:34:48 <EricBlade> well on the bright side, it's not like the webOS kit is so functionally deficient that it's not usable.  It's not like IE6 or something
Jun 22 16:42:43 <bigbluehat> EricBlade: very true. I'm actually pumped from my late-night-got-palm-run-working hack the other night :)
Jun 22 16:43:57 <EricBlade> there are certainly some nice optimizations in our current webkit.  i definitely was not impressed by the speed of the existing QtWebKit compile for TouchPad compared to ours
Jun 22 16:45:51 <EricBlade> i didn't try to run anything in enyo in it though
Jun 22 16:57:54 <summatusmentis> anyone using phonegap?
Jun 22 16:58:06 <summatusmentis> I'm having issues with binding
Jun 22 16:58:21 <fxspec06> android and ios don't have prototype.bind
Jun 22 16:58:46 <fxspec06> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7282158/function-prototype-bind
Jun 22 16:58:55 <summatusmentis> let me rephrase. the binding is working ok, I want to bind back to the enyo context
Jun 22 16:59:01 <fxspec06> ah. sorry.
Jun 22 16:59:14 <summatusmentis> or the context of the Kind that I've written
Jun 22 16:59:16 <fxspec06> in that case, i am of no use
Jun 22 16:59:26 <fxspec06> but, you can try that
Jun 22 16:59:49 <fxspec06> i include it in all of my cross platform apps
Jun 22 16:59:51 <summatusmentis> if I use enyo.bind(), how can I refer to the kind context?
Jun 22 17:00:32 <fxspec06> not familiar with enyo.bind(), but the kind context is just a variable
Jun 22 17:01:27 <summatusmentis> well, normally, you'd say enyo.bind(this, "functionName");
Jun 22 17:01:32 <summatusmentis> where this is the kind context
Jun 22 17:02:01 <fxspec06> right
Jun 22 17:02:38 <fxspec06> the context of the app is the variable you made in the index.html.... var x = kind().renderInto(document.body);
Jun 22 17:03:00 <fxspec06> you can access the context of anything in the heirarchy with kind.$.subkind.$.control.$.subcontrol etc
Jun 22 17:03:20 <summatusmentis> hrm
Jun 22 17:03:53 <fxspec06> you could also set a global variable anywhere that would serve as a pointer to that kind
Jun 22 17:04:15 <fxspec06> my_global = this.$.somekind;
Jun 22 17:04:23 <fxspec06> then anywhere you could use that as context
Jun 22 17:07:10 <summatusmentis> so, I'm using phonegap w/in a given kind, so I could say var t = this.$, and then for the callback, say enyo.bind(t, this.functionname) ?
Jun 22 17:09:29 <fxspec06> yeah
Jun 22 17:09:32 <fxspec06> that should work
Jun 22 17:09:45 <unwiredben> this.$ is probably not the context you want to run code in
Jun 22 17:09:54 <unwiredben> it's just a hash mapping names to objects
Jun 22 17:09:57 <fxspec06> as long as you give t the proper scope..
Jun 22 17:12:24 <summatusmentis> that worked, I just want the function that I'm calling as a callback to have access to enyo functionality
Jun 22 17:12:28 <summatusmentis> the method above worked
Jun 22 17:12:51 <unwiredben> "enyo" is a global, so you always can use it
Jun 22 17:15:01 <summatusmentis> that doesn't get me the ability to createComponents on a given div in my kind
Jun 22 17:17:42 <unwiredben> ah, then pushing "this" as your context lets the callback run as if it were a method on your object
Jun 22 17:19:24 <summatusmentis> so I don't need this.$, just "this" ?
Jun 22 17:25:11 <unwiredben> if you bind to this, then "this" inside the bound method will be the same
Jun 22 17:25:31 <unwiredben> if you bind to this.$, then this inside the bound function will just be the hash of control names
Jun 22 19:12:31 <baboo> i wanna vertically align all my text inside buttons center
Jun 22 19:42:39 <fxspec06> too bad
Jun 22 19:42:45 <fxspec06> lol. i dunno of a way
Jun 22 19:46:28 <baboo> ya, i need to for Tracer
Jun 22 19:46:50 <fxspec06> you could always use....
Jun 22 19:46:53 * fxspec06 MATH
Jun 22 19:54:29 <baboo> hmm, how do i convert line height to a division of my button height
Jun 22 20:42:17 <fxspec06> put it in a container and calculate the width of a container
Jun 22 20:42:22 <fxspec06> s/width/height
Jun 22 21:00:02 <baboo> i have 1 table column, is that a contaner? (eg, {nodeTag: "td"})
Jun 22 21:04:57 <baboo> how can you add new lines to captions of buttons
Jun 22 21:04:58 <baboo> \
Jun 22 21:05:01 <baboo> ?
Jun 22 21:26:36 <unwiredben> for a button, use HTML and put a <br> tag
Jun 22 21:28:08 <baboo> i don't know how to incorporate html into enyo yet
Jun 22 21:28:25 <unwiredben> are you using a enyo.Button or onyx.Button?
Jun 22 21:29:04 <baboo> enyo.button
Jun 22 21:29:21 <baboo> {kind: "Button"}
Jun 22 21:29:54 <unwiredben> ok, so you use content: "Caption" to set the caption, right?
Jun 22 21:30:13 <baboo> yup
Jun 22 21:30:39 <baboo> i use caption: "blablabla"
Jun 22 21:31:02 <baboo> i meant nope
Jun 22 21:31:11 <unwiredben> to have it take two lines, write {kind: "Button", allowHtml: true, content: "One<br>Two"}
Jun 22 21:31:24 <baboo> ok
Jun 22 21:35:27 <baboo> testing...
Jun 22 21:36:17 <baboo> it works! Thank you unwiredben!
Jun 22 21:42:11 <unwiredben> no problem, baboo
Jun 22 21:43:25 <summatusmentis> fxspec06: ... math? what is that?
Jun 22 21:49:27 <baboo> it's called doing things with numbers
Jun 22 21:52:01 <baboo> calculating centers of buttons!
Jun 22 22:14:13 <rrix> So, bluetooth keyboard is really nice for development on the touchpad
Jun 22 22:14:24 <rrix> I'm doing ssh pairing at a coffee show with just my tablet :3
Jun 22 22:14:39 <rrix> unwiredben: heh, blaine got his christmas present today, he's pretty ecstatic ;P
Jun 22 22:34:42 <unwiredben> rrix: what was that?
Jun 22 22:41:59 <rrix> unwiredben: a box from sunnyvale
Jun 22 22:42:15 <rrix> full of goodies
Jun 22 23:04:36 <baboo> i'm getting a mojo error but i'm using enyo!
Jun 22 23:07:32 <baboo> i see why
Jun 22 23:07:47 <baboo> index.html IS enyo
Jun 22 23:14:08 <ka6sox> he he
Jun 22 23:15:12 * ka6sox dances...baboo is on the way towards getting the UI for my app going!
Jun 22 23:15:44 <ka6sox> unwiredben, can he add html size tags in the content too?
Jun 22 23:16:25 <ka6sox> my poor old eyes can't see the text very well.
Jun 22 23:17:35 <baboo> i meant index.html IS Mojo
Jun 22 23:17:48 <baboo> or was
Jun 22 23:18:06 <ka6sox> ?
Jun 22 23:26:37 <dkirker> unwiredben: Heya ben!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 02:59:58 2012