**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 31 02:59:59 2012
Jul 31 03:26:03 <EricBlade> hmm. i make a Panels with two panels, using CarouselArranger, it works perfectly. I add a third panel, and everything fails. argh.
Jul 31 15:40:56 <hisa_py> Hello ? can anyone help me with an enyo and db8 question?
Jul 31 15:56:51 <kesne> hisa_py: I assume you mean Enyo 1.
Jul 31 16:00:43 <hisa_py> Hi kesne ? I'm using enyo in HP TouchPad
Jul 31 16:01:06 <kesne> hisa_py: I'll help you in #webos.
Jul 31 16:01:36 <hisa_py> ok thanks ? I'm in #webos
Jul 31 18:07:11 * phil_bw lazily wanders by
Jul 31 18:07:33 <kesne> Howdy
Jul 31 18:07:43 <phil_bw> hey kesne, how's it going?
Jul 31 18:07:52 <kesne> It's going alright.
Jul 31 18:08:05 <kesne> Just finished my CSV exporter. :)
Jul 31 18:08:11 <phil_bw> nice
Jul 31 18:08:18 <phil_bw> I'm trying to figure out how to use git
Jul 31 18:08:25 <kesne> Mac or PC?
Jul 31 18:08:33 <phil_bw> Linux via shell
Jul 31 18:08:38 <kesne> Ah
Jul 31 18:08:43 <kesne> That's always fun.
Jul 31 18:08:52 <kesne> I'm just lazy and use the windows/mac applications.
Jul 31 18:08:52 <phil_bw> I currently use no kind of version control
Jul 31 18:09:09 <phil_bw> and I do all of the development directly on the server (with main and testing directories)
Jul 31 18:09:24 <kesne> That's probably not good, heh.
Jul 31 18:09:50 <phil_bw> I used to develop locally but I develop in multiple locations and kept forgetting to sync my changes
Jul 31 18:10:16 <kesne> Well, I would definitely recommend version control of some sort.
Jul 31 18:10:19 <phil_bw> so I just setup a really nice vim configuration on my server and just ssh in and develop there
Jul 31 18:10:28 <phil_bw> yeah, my host has git already installed
Jul 31 18:10:37 <phil_bw> just gotta get the hang of it
Jul 31 18:10:41 <kesne> Well that's handy.
Jul 31 18:11:05 <phil_bw> so far I've had no issues with my setup then last night I nearly lost a lot of work
Jul 31 18:11:40 <phil_bw> luckily I had it loaded in chrome for testing and it still had scripts available in it's inspector so I just copy and pasted
Jul 31 18:12:07 <kesne> Well that's good. You should just make incremental archives of everything.
Jul 31 18:12:13 <kesne> That's a lazy mans version control.
Jul 31 18:12:21 <phil_bw> well my host does that automatically too
Jul 31 18:12:28 <phil_bw> on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis
Jul 31 18:12:44 <phil_bw> but the changes I had made were all done that day so the previous days backup didn't help
Jul 31 18:12:50 <kesne> Well that sure as hell is handy.
Jul 31 18:12:54 <kesne> Ah, I see.
Jul 31 18:13:18 <phil_bw> yeah, I just change directory out of my home directory and it's got three more directories with the backups, it's really helpful
Jul 31 18:14:25 <phil_bw> also I figure if I have a git setup I could probably do some more local development and more easily sync changes
Jul 31 18:14:55 <kesne> that's true.
Jul 31 18:15:29 <phil_bw> so what's this csv exporter you're talking about used for (apart from the obvious)?
Jul 31 18:15:51 <kesne> A time and motion study application.
Jul 31 18:16:04 <phil_bw> I see
Jul 31 18:16:11 <kesne> It takes all of the study observations and puts them into a csv.
Jul 31 18:16:52 <phil_bw> nice, all through enyo I take it?
Jul 31 18:17:15 <kesne> Well, it sits in Enyo, but the exporter is just plain JS.
Jul 31 18:17:37 <phil_bw> cool
Jul 31 18:17:46 <kesne> Yeah, it was fun to make.
Jul 31 18:17:55 <phil_bw> what is it taking for input (ie control data, a json string, etc)
Jul 31 18:18:08 <kesne> A giant JavaScript object.
Jul 31 18:18:33 <phil_bw> nice
Jul 31 18:19:50 <phil_bw> I ask because I'm working on basically a form setup... for lack of better words
Jul 31 18:20:27 <kesne> ah, I see.
Jul 31 18:20:38 <phil_bw> a whole series of controls (field, check box, time selector, date selector, select, etc) that all easily serialize into a get string, json, or a javascript object
Jul 31 18:21:08 <kesne> What for?
Jul 31 18:21:27 <phil_bw> so with a csv exporter one could just slap together a bunch of fields, output the data to a js object and feed it to the exporter and have that data in csv
Jul 31 18:21:31 <phil_bw> two seperate projects
Jul 31 18:22:12 <phil_bw> taskwire uses it for the fields to enter new task information
Jul 31 18:22:33 <phil_bw> and the other project (an internal company project) uses it for the daily data that needs to be entered
Jul 31 18:23:16 <phil_bw> one day It'll be refined enough that I'll also have it available for anyone else to use
Jul 31 18:23:35 <kesne> Ah, I see.
Jul 31 18:23:49 <kesne> Well if you need the exporter, I can make it work for you.
Jul 31 18:24:28 <phil_bw> I don't see a need for csv at the moment, but I could imagine someone at some point will want to put some fields in an app and export to csv very simply
Jul 31 18:24:51 <kesne> Ah, alright. Well if you ever do, just ask.
Jul 31 18:24:57 <phil_bw> will do
Jul 31 18:25:04 <kesne> I'd need to customize the exporter for your needs, but that's pretty simple.
Jul 31 18:25:14 <phil_bw> I'd offer some of my stuff to you as well, but I'd imagine your stuff is superior to mine anyway :P
Jul 31 18:25:37 <kesne> Well I wouldn't say that, haha.
Jul 31 18:25:53 <phil_bw> I'm kind of a rookie with Enyo it seems
Jul 31 18:26:25 <kesne> Well it's pretty simple.
Jul 31 18:26:31 <phil_bw> I wrote a windows app to control a robotic arm in about an hour, but making a custom select box in enyo has taken weeks
Jul 31 18:26:44 <kesne> Heh, well you'll get the hang of it!
Jul 31 18:26:57 <kesne> Just get a fundamental understanding of kinds.
Jul 31 18:27:06 <phil_bw> yeah, I'm off and rolling now
Jul 31 18:27:10 <kesne> And the published properties with automatic get/set stuff.
Jul 31 18:27:21 <phil_bw> honestly that little bit of code you helped me with the other day really catapulted me towards my end result
Jul 31 18:27:25 <kesne> And events with bubbling and waterfalling.
Jul 31 18:27:28 <kesne> And statics.
Jul 31 18:27:35 <kesne> And that's it!
Jul 31 18:27:38 <kesne> I'm glad that helped! :)
Jul 31 18:27:49 <phil_bw> yeah, I'm already using custom events for the serializing
Jul 31 18:28:26 <phil_bw> that way a form can be mixed with various controls and only the ones with handlers actually send their data to the server
Jul 31 18:28:53 <kesne> I love Enyo events.
Jul 31 18:29:10 <kesne> I actually used the idea of enyo.Signals in Villo.
Jul 31 18:29:16 <phil_bw> nice
Jul 31 18:31:50 * phil_bw yawns
Jul 31 18:31:56 <phil_bw> I feel especially lazy today
Jul 31 18:32:03 <phil_bw> have the day of...
Jul 31 18:32:07 <phil_bw> day off*
Jul 31 18:38:43 <kesne> phil_bw: What does your task wire application do?
Jul 31 18:40:23 <phil_bw> kesne, todo list that stores everything server side (or in "the cloud" I guess)
Jul 31 18:40:46 <phil_bw> http://www.taskwire.com/ for a little breakdown of why I'm doing it
Jul 31 18:42:12 <kesne> Ah, neat.
Jul 31 18:42:21 <kesne> I was going to make one of those with Villo, but never got around to it.
Jul 31 18:42:47 <phil_bw> yeah, I bought taskwire.com in January of 2007 with the idea then but never got around to developing it
Jul 31 18:43:18 <phil_bw> then I just got fed up with the options that were out there so I decided to just write my own, and even if I'm the only one that uses it at least it'll be the way I want
Jul 31 18:43:57 <phil_bw> I plan on making the front end open source as well, so if down the road you do want a villo todo list just take the taskwire code, change the server stuff, and call it your own
Jul 31 18:44:41 <kesne> Eh, I wouldn't do that to you, haha.
Jul 31 18:44:51 <kesne> You should just use Villo in your application ;)
Jul 31 18:45:00 <phil_bw> maybe one day
Jul 31 18:45:19 <phil_bw> I've got a lot of php doing the heavy lifting right now
Jul 31 18:53:43 <kesne> Villo does too!
Jul 31 18:53:44 <kesne> ;)
Jul 31 18:54:34 <phil_bw> I'm sure Villo does a fantastic job, I just don't know how it would handle certain things
Jul 31 18:54:37 <phil_bw> such as recurring tasks
Jul 31 18:54:46 <kesne> I have no idea, haha.
Jul 31 18:55:01 <kesne> I'm just plugging my own product, feel free to ignore me :P
Jul 31 18:55:16 <phil_bw> I currently have some interesting mysql queries designed to determine if a task is recuring
Jul 31 18:55:39 <phil_bw> it's all good, I wish the best for your products actually
Jul 31 18:55:58 <phil_bw> we enyo devs need to stick together
Jul 31 18:56:17 <kesne> Indeed we do. Though Villo is cross-platform cross-library.
Jul 31 18:56:26 <kesne> It was originally Mojo, actually.
Jul 31 18:58:09 * phil_bw grumbles about mojo
Jul 31 18:58:15 <kesne> Hehe
Jul 31 19:00:12 <phil_bw> what is the server side stuff developed using?
Jul 31 19:00:28 <kesne> It's PHP, with a mySQL database.
Jul 31 19:00:30 <kesne> Simple stuff.
Jul 31 19:00:45 <phil_bw> same as taskwire then
Jul 31 19:01:07 <phil_bw> I consider php to be my "native" programming language
Jul 31 19:01:17 <kesne> Indeed, we just don't give direct mysql access to users, we just give functions that abstract all of that.
Jul 31 19:01:24 <phil_bw> yep
Jul 31 19:01:47 <phil_bw> I spit everything out in jsonp format and the enyo app chews on that
Jul 31 19:01:52 <kesne> Nice
Jul 31 19:02:01 <kesne> Eventually we're going to launch something called VQL
Jul 31 19:02:09 <kesne> Internally, that's what it's called at least.
Jul 31 19:02:40 <phil_bw> whats that do?
Jul 31 19:03:09 <kesne> Basically, it's hassle-free mysql
Jul 31 19:03:17 <kesne> It's got a JS and PHP library.
Jul 31 19:03:42 <kesne> So you can set up tables in a web interface, then run standard sql queries against in JavaScript and php.
Jul 31 19:04:36 <phil_bw> I've thought about doing something similar but the idea of getting users any closer to the database scares me
Jul 31 19:05:11 <kesne> Yeah, I've thought about that quite a bit. Select, Insert, and Delete all have their own "access" keys
Jul 31 19:05:24 <phil_bw> though now that I think about it if you set up the server with a second mysql user that was read only it could work quite harmlessly
Jul 31 19:05:42 <kesne> So you can run selects from the javascript and never run the risk of letting users mess with the data.
Jul 31 19:05:48 <kesne> And keep the inserts server-side.
Jul 31 19:05:52 <phil_bw> correct
Jul 31 19:05:58 <phil_bw> that's not a bad idea
Jul 31 19:06:15 <kesne> I've been using it in internal projects, and it's really handy to have.
Jul 31 19:06:29 <phil_bw> because your "dumb" user account would basically be one that even if someone had full access to run any query they want still wouldn't be able to harm anything
Jul 31 19:06:41 <kesne> Exactly.
Jul 31 19:06:58 <phil_bw> hmm
Jul 31 19:07:22 <phil_bw> well if you ever want to show off what you've got so far maybe we could meet for coffee sometime (that is before you leave for the midwest)
Jul 31 19:07:41 <kesne> And the developers never have access to the Villo tables, either, so all of the user accounts are safe.
Jul 31 19:07:55 <kesne> Though we do have "public" tables that you can query against (select-only).
Jul 31 19:08:40 <kesne> Maybe when I get back, I'm not quite ready just yet.
Jul 31 19:08:48 <kesne> Working on Villo Game before I get VQL set.
Jul 31 19:09:36 <phil_bw> that works too
Jul 31 19:20:31 <slcort> are there any samples with a picker in a toolbar? i am new to enyo, and although it works, the text in the picker is incorrectly aligned vertically
Jul 31 19:34:57 <kesne> In a header you'll probably want a menu.
Jul 31 19:36:36 <slcort> ok, ill look into those kinds. thanks
Jul 31 20:07:30 <PatrickC> hola dk
Jul 31 20:07:32 <PatrickC> dkirker*
Jul 31 20:09:18 <dkirker> hi
Jul 31 20:10:05 <PatrickC> hows it goin?
Jul 31 22:59:23 <kesne> phil_bw: I found something out.
Jul 31 22:59:30 <phil_bw> kesne, what's that?
Jul 31 22:59:39 <kesne> phil_bw: Do you still have that JS fiddle from earlier?
Jul 31 22:59:58 <phil_bw> hm, might be in the history somewhere
Jul 31 23:00:41 <kesne> If you can find that, I think I can simplify the code.
Jul 31 23:01:00 <phil_bw> this one: http://jsfiddle.net/fXBpk/ ?
Jul 31 23:01:14 <kesne> Yes!
Jul 31 23:01:26 <phil_bw> chrome has decent history search apparently
Jul 31 23:01:35 <phil_bw> (never used it before)
Jul 31 23:06:12 <kesne> http://jsfiddle.net/fXBpk/11/
Jul 31 23:07:08 <phil_bw> oh wow
Jul 31 23:07:29 <kesne> I forgot to set the defaultKind, so it wasn't working when I tried that when you first showed me.
Jul 31 23:07:39 <kesne> the "client" name is something from Enyo 1.0
Jul 31 23:08:05 <phil_bw> so I've since updated that code a lot, so all I need to do is change it's original name to client throughout the code and all should be well?
Jul 31 23:08:41 <kesne> And add the defaultKind.
Jul 31 23:08:50 <kesne> I'd have to see your code to know for certain.
Jul 31 23:09:23 <phil_bw> well I interact with the select box such as getting it's selection and whatnot
Jul 31 23:10:12 <kesne> That should all still work.
Jul 31 23:10:33 <kesne> Also, I can't be the only person who thinks that the setSelection and getSelection on those kinds needs to be better.
Jul 31 23:10:35 <kesne> Maybe by index.
Jul 31 23:11:16 <phil_bw> kesne, in the one I'm working on I'm adding some better functionality because I agree with you
Jul 31 23:12:31 <kesne> I thought I was crazy.
Jul 31 23:22:39 <phil_bw> well I gotta run
Jul 31 23:22:43 <phil_bw> thanks for the update
Jul 31 23:22:56 <kesne> No worries.
Aug 01 00:32:20 <ch3mical> What's the best way to determine if a panel is visible?
Aug 01 00:34:05 <fxspec06> what do you mean o.O
Aug 01 00:35:02 <ch3mical> Like when you have CollapsingArranger and you want to check if the one to the left is visible to the user
Aug 01 00:35:11 <ch3mical> Ok so here's what I want to do
Aug 01 00:35:54 <ch3mical> When a user clicks an item in panel B, I want to do .next() on the panel control to collapse panel A
Aug 01 00:36:28 <ch3mical> But if I put that in a ontap event it tries to fire .next every time, which produces an error
Aug 01 00:36:39 <ch3mical> So I want to put it in an if statement
Aug 01 00:37:18 <ch3mical> if (panelA.visible() === false) or something
Aug 01 00:37:28 <ch3mical> But there's not a .visible() method
Aug 01 00:37:59 <ch3mical> The nearest I could find is a getShowing(), but that's not the same, that's when you remove the control from the DOM
Aug 01 00:39:32 <ch3mical> Oh here, there's an 'index' property on the panels control, I can use that to check which one is active :)
Aug 01 00:39:36 <ch3mical> nm then :D
Aug 01 00:39:41 <fxspec06> if ( "mypanel" == this.$.panes.getActive() ) { etc.. }
Aug 01 00:39:42 <fxspec06> i think
Aug 01 00:39:46 <fxspec06> or the index
Aug 01 00:40:21 <ch3mical> Thanks
Aug 01 00:40:30 <fxspec06> heh, didn't really do much. yvw! :D
Aug 01 00:42:57 <ch3mical> Hmm I'm still getting the error even if the active panel is the first one
Aug 01 00:47:36 <fxspec06> what's the error
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 01 02:59:59 2012