**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 06 03:00:01 2018 Apr 06 09:04:30 *tumbleweed* Apr 06 09:25:31 well, order status still says "sometime mid april", so... ;) Apr 06 14:04:54 my gemini auction didn't sell, so it's time for unboxing :-) Apr 06 14:06:48 cos-: that's a shame... did it not reach the reserve price? Are you gonna do an unboxing video? ;) Apr 06 14:07:46 yep, nobody bid on it. it has finnish keyboard so that's understandable.. Apr 06 14:08:38 .. you don't think finnish people would like it? Apr 06 14:09:03 aah, yeah, a smaller audience than other layouts Apr 06 14:09:29 and secretly i hoped nobody would bid :-) Apr 06 14:10:27 . o O ( I wonder if individual sets of replaceable keys might become available - for other languages / countries? ) Apr 06 14:11:40 first impressions: it's quite heavy Apr 06 14:12:33 * canny[m] goes off and registers gemini-keyboards.com as a side-line... :P Apr 06 14:12:42 keys are all straight and feel correct Apr 06 14:13:19 first irc unboxing i've been part of Apr 06 14:14:44 cos-: you should be streaming the unboxing, live on twitch.tv! Apr 06 14:14:49 youtube webcam streaming requires chrome, that sucks.. i know webcam should work with firefox Apr 06 14:16:04 I get the impression Firefox is making a bit of a comeback in tech circles Apr 06 14:16:22 comeback from where? Apr 06 14:16:32 i've been using it for years Apr 06 14:17:39 my first usb-c device, luckily there was charger & cable in the box Apr 06 14:18:10 that concludes the unboxing, it's now on table charging Apr 06 14:18:50 fanfare! Apr 06 14:18:54 the screen protecor plastic is difficult to remove Apr 06 14:19:02 oh it continues Apr 06 14:19:49 oh, there is smell of fresh electronics. that's cool. Apr 06 14:20:55 nothing beats the smell of burning chips in the morning Apr 06 14:20:55 tbh i'm not sure if there is protective plastic on screen or is it part of the display. it has holes around camera and something invisible on right side Apr 06 14:21:16 aah, love that smell...the original Psions had a satisfying odour to them.... Apr 06 14:21:34 maybe i'll have to read the manual now :-) Apr 06 14:21:56 there are planet stickers & microfiber cloth Apr 06 14:22:56 paper manual? Apr 06 14:23:05 yes, very short one Apr 06 14:23:22 if my Gemini has an unobtrusive screen protector on it, I'm just going to leave it on. RTFM? never! Apr 06 14:23:50 it has touch screen so any protector should be removed Apr 06 14:24:09 like a qjuick-start guide? Apr 06 14:24:17 Apr 06 14:24:24 "The Gemini comes with a perfectly-sized screen protector in place, which was a bugger to remove, and I’m now wishing I’d left it on." Apr 06 14:25:31 I don't see the point of screen protector in clamshell device. Apr 06 14:25:43 me too, i'll need to remove it Apr 06 14:26:07 powering up now Apr 06 14:26:46 it's in chinese by default Apr 06 14:27:06 guessed right where to change language Apr 06 14:27:30 :) Apr 06 14:27:48 drumroll Apr 06 14:28:35 connected to wifi successfully.. i won't insert sim yet Apr 06 14:28:42 你不能读中文吗？ ;) Apr 06 14:28:59 keyboard feels nice, there is a vibration effect when pressing keys Apr 06 14:29:21 "Adding a few finishing touches. This may take a minute or two." Apr 06 14:29:36 i suppose it's downloading something Apr 06 14:29:41 Mine was in English by default but I have a UK keyboard. Apr 06 14:30:21 我可以通过Google翻译阅读中文。 Apr 06 14:30:30 google account creation can be skipped Apr 06 14:31:09 yalp store Apr 06 14:31:14 我也是！ Apr 06 14:31:40 we want pictures :) Apr 06 14:31:43 ok now it booted to android Apr 06 14:31:50 shiny pictures Apr 06 14:32:40 ooh...shiny! Apr 06 14:33:52 there are shiny videos online already :-) Apr 06 14:34:44 ok the Ö key on keyboard produces ä Apr 06 14:35:27 i suppose fn+Ö should print ö but it doesn't Apr 06 14:35:34 I think they released better keyboard maps after shipping Apr 06 14:36:43 cos-: I'm guessing you need to download the keyboard app from PC's website Apr 06 14:37:10 i can't type @ to log in to google Apr 06 14:37:20 it's also behind non-working fn key Apr 06 14:37:34 i found it weird that they put both ä and ö on the same key Apr 06 14:38:03 i'm just learning the apple keyboard and boy it's a task Apr 06 14:38:48 there's "Browser" and "Chrome" to choose when searching web Apr 06 14:40:03 have seen that on many android handsets - both based on webkit though Apr 06 14:40:42 looks like the keyboard app is available only from google play, so i'll have to login to it Apr 06 14:42:15 Free app, isn't it? Apr 06 14:44:07 cos-: https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-to/install-apps-from-play-store-without-gapps-google-services-0176241/ Apr 06 14:44:30 you can use yalp store to install from play store too Apr 06 14:44:35 i think it's time to flash the android+linux image, as it'll wipe everything Apr 06 14:44:58 leinir: yeah AFAIK. it would be a cheeky move to charge extra for it! Apr 06 14:45:07 this is why i was selling my gemini, i bet i'll have to wipe it over an over again when there are new images Apr 06 14:46:41 flashing should be possible with sp-flashtool from linux, but i think i'll be lazy and boot to windows Apr 06 14:46:52 canny[m]: Kind of would, yeah ;) Apr 06 14:46:54 cos-: good call - I don't intend to use the device too much before flashing it for dual-boot...don't want to have to reinstall everything twice Apr 06 14:47:25 (although I'm sure I will have to at some point...for 'research' purposes) Apr 06 14:47:39 i'll have to reflash at latest when sailfish is available Apr 06 14:52:03 is there a confirmation anywhere that sp-flashtool works? Apr 06 14:54:44 cos-: at least for any linux updates including kernel updates you don't have to do any reflashing, it can all be done on device Apr 06 14:57:05 . o O ( I'm wondering if I can pre-partition a large SD card for future OSes to be installed later... ) Apr 06 14:59:02 I've not heard of anyone tweaking the bootloaders to support booting from anything other than the tri-options offered (Android,Debian,Recovery) Apr 06 14:59:40 akik, new enough version works Apr 06 15:00:32 which is? Apr 06 15:03:12 I tried v5.1804 Apr 06 15:07:51 TheKit: https://spflashtool.com/download/ doesn't list it for linux?? Apr 06 15:08:54 oops meant only one ? :) Apr 06 15:09:59 SP_Flash_Tool_v5.1752 should be new enough as well Apr 06 15:09:59 i need to take a break in setup, the download of the image takes 30 mins Apr 06 15:10:18 even on windows the installation is not super simple Apr 06 15:10:21 https://yadi.sk/d/NaFSPCuE3UAiWz - this one is from 4PDA Apr 06 15:11:49 next time i'll flash from linux Apr 06 15:15:25 TheKit: the linux one lets you optionally flash specific partitions only? (the windows one seemed to only let me do the whole lot) Apr 06 15:18:27 I think there is some bug due to modified partition table Apr 06 15:22:19 bugs lead to bricks Apr 06 15:32:07 Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Apr 06 15:42:17 canny: the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. it is by will alone I set my mind in motion. Apr 06 15:57:31 ok firmware is updating at last.. i had to install the driver twice until it started working properly Apr 06 16:07:56 cos-, I just read you are live here setting your gemini Apr 06 16:08:03 is all done Apr 06 16:08:09 and congratulations Apr 06 16:08:17 impressions please :D Apr 06 17:16:01 yep, back from walking dog.. the flashing was finished and i managed to boot to linux Apr 06 17:16:28 boot was slow, with black screen showing.. i was about to reboot device until it booted Apr 06 17:19:53 linux side seems very unpolished.. i booted into lxqt(?).. managed to get network working with connman gui. qterminal doesn't work, xterm seems to work but has tiny font Apr 06 17:20:12 i'm just updating packages to get any fixes Apr 06 17:21:23 222 megs of updated packages Apr 06 17:34:22 cos-, great mate, and congratulations Apr 06 17:35:05 people are asking for video stream on fb.. that would be one boring video stream :-) Apr 06 17:37:37 cos-, I guess one of the big downsides yet exciting is early beta devices Apr 06 17:38:11 the good part is you will also take part of making it grow Apr 06 17:38:42 reminds me when i got Jolla, it was also very much beta when shipped Apr 06 17:38:55 yeah exactly Apr 06 17:39:52 exciting times and you are being a part of creation, if it succeed you could say you were part of it Apr 06 17:40:26 the hardware feels solid, i'm not disapoointed by it.. software can always be upgraded Apr 06 17:40:58 wifi + keyboard under linux is a good start :) I imagine I can do a lot with just that and basic apps! Apr 06 17:41:14 i wonder if bluetooth works Apr 06 17:41:18 yeah beside the people who received lemons, the biggest work will be on the software side, needs too much development Apr 06 17:41:36 bt mouse is a must for serous work on linux Apr 06 17:41:48 hidpi screen can be set in a variety of ways. Apr 06 17:42:06 * Kero remembers something about physical dimensions of the screen in Xorg config Apr 06 17:42:09 ok now i rebooted and it went to android.. i could set it up aswell Apr 06 17:42:21 but currently setting Xft.dpi in .Xresources and happy with it Apr 06 17:42:52 then xterm ought to be better, although I'm still running it with another font Apr 06 17:42:54 normally xorg should autodetect dpi from monitor, but on embedded device this might not work Apr 06 17:43:16 Kero: have you tried gnome? Apr 06 17:43:36 talking about a laptop with a different linux flavor :) Apr 06 17:43:53 lxqt feels very 90's, i want to change to something else. gnome or plasma desktop.. Apr 06 17:44:00 more DIY than most, but less than the extremes Apr 06 17:45:08 now the default language was english Apr 06 17:45:39 cos-: TheKit has a newer kernel that has a fix for bluetooth working, I tried it with a keyboard and that at least worked Apr 06 17:45:57 my gemini is 'being produced' Apr 06 17:47:02 logging into google with e-mail address required using virtual keyboard (hidden in bottom right corner) Apr 06 17:47:20 I fixed the lxqt-globalkeysd so that it can support the fn+... combinations for short cuts Apr 06 17:48:18 cos-, how happy you were to finally receive your device :D Apr 06 17:48:54 you should also be able to set your keyboard to use the fi layout with a setxkbmap fi (once you've upgraded your kernal) Apr 06 17:49:36 adam_b: i'm in android now Apr 06 17:50:17 ahh well when your back to linux I've been putting any tips here: https://github.com/gemian/gemini-keyboard-apps/wiki/DebianTP Apr 06 17:55:50 adam_b: oversize windows can be dragged with alt pressed, that's how i managed to enter the wifi password Apr 06 17:56:16 please add that to the wiki Apr 06 17:56:38 secret second technology preview? Apr 06 17:56:52 they should just call them betas Apr 06 17:57:00 or alphas Apr 06 17:57:07 yea there was one file different in the downloads before and after 6th Apr 06 17:57:22 oh the gemini user has no shell defined.. that explains why qterminal didn't work Apr 06 17:57:36 but they didn't call it out on the download page so it took me ages of trying to figure out why it wouldn't work Apr 06 17:57:40 elementary mistake? Apr 06 18:02:59 `chsh` might be better to change the shell Apr 06 18:04:39 Kero: its a wiki feel free to improve the instructions Apr 06 18:06:11 will do when I have my own Gemini. Not going to make unverifiable-by-me changes. Apr 06 18:10:09 ok set up some android apps & installed f-droid Apr 06 18:10:55 the default "browser" wants access to my contacts, i won't allow that.. so chrome is to be used unless there is better browser Apr 06 18:12:16 i still dislike android.. sailfish has so much cleaner & nicer ui Apr 06 18:15:06 cos-, Qterminal can be fixed by setting default shell for user to /bin/bash Apr 06 18:16:14 booted into plasma desktop, now bottom row of keys (zxcv..) does not work so i can't type bash Apr 06 18:16:22 in xterm Apr 06 18:16:58 Xorg is really slow, it's really software rendering Apr 06 18:17:05 :( Apr 06 18:17:59 ssh in from another device Apr 06 18:18:15 https://yadi.sk/d/l5mocpkA3TnGTW - this kernel should fix keys and bluetooth Apr 06 18:18:36 afaik ssh won't work without shell Apr 06 18:18:50 keyboard works in lxqt, but can't figure out how to type / Apr 06 18:18:58 xorg over ssh is even more slow :) Apr 06 18:20:58 I may have waited till my usb hub came so I could use a usb keyboard to do the initial config Apr 06 18:21:39 ok found it Apr 06 18:22:58 raiders of the lost / Apr 06 18:24:29 cos-, Plasma is going to be very slow if installed straight from repos right now due to MESA llvmpipe software rendering Apr 06 18:24:51 we need to rebuild Qt packages against GLESv2 Apr 06 18:26:14 TheKit: how easy is that, it sounded fairly simple? Apr 06 18:27:34 I did this for buster locally Apr 06 18:27:38 (sticking with the same version as currently in d9) Apr 06 18:29:01 i'm in via ssh now Apr 06 18:29:54 i suppose updates will come via gemian repository? Apr 06 18:30:43 debian, eh, /etc/dpkg/sources.list ? Apr 06 18:31:32 it's /etc/apt if it's debian Apr 06 18:32:15 yeah, just looked after realizing I still have one debian system around ;) Apr 06 18:32:16 all the things we've branched and are then built by jenkins get into the gemian repo Apr 06 18:32:42 gemian is gemini debian word smashed Apr 06 18:33:09 similar to raspbian for raspberry pi debian Apr 06 18:33:59 yep, the repo is enabled by default Apr 06 18:34:16 the default debian repo points to russian mirror, i changed it to finnish Apr 06 18:34:31 we didn't decide whether to include kernel updates that way yet Apr 06 18:34:35 about 10* faster Apr 06 18:36:21 now installing gnome, i'm afraid it'll be too slow with software rendering Apr 06 18:36:59 sure it will Apr 06 18:38:20 I didn't try it on Debian, but you could try to rebuild Mutter with "--enable-xlib-egl-platform" Apr 06 18:38:50 then start it with COGL_DRIVER=gles2 EGL_PLATFORM=x11 envs set Apr 06 18:40:05 maybe someday.. Apr 06 18:41:15 xfce is not 3d accelerated, is it? Apr 06 18:42:19 no, but you'd need to tweak it for HiDPI Apr 06 18:51:06 this feels a bit minimized debian version.. there's for example no ping, reboot, shutdown commands Apr 06 18:52:24 ping is in iputils-ping Apr 06 18:52:49 but no reboot? you're just going to use it indefinitely? :) Apr 06 18:53:04 all those are in "normal" debian afaik Apr 06 18:53:12 maybe it's done with systemctl isolate Apr 06 18:53:23 cos-: a debootstrap debian is very minimal Apr 06 18:54:58 i hope it'll be more standard debian in future releases Apr 06 18:56:00 sleeping is currently problematic Apr 06 18:56:29 the whole closing the device can push the 'on' button does my head in Apr 06 18:56:57 so I want it to turn off the keyboard+screen (only internal ones) Apr 06 18:58:10 gnome seems to work but it doesn't show wifi password dialog when selecting one.. Apr 06 18:59:38 managed to connect from network settings Apr 06 19:02:43 dns doesn't work though.. it worked before Apr 06 19:08:58 cos-: your off the reservation - here be dragons Apr 06 19:11:09 i installed lxde now also Apr 06 19:12:33 poweroff & friends are in package systemd-sysv Apr 06 19:12:54 cos-: is it running systemd? Apr 06 19:13:24 afaik yes, isn't debian running it normally Apr 06 19:15:14 nowadays yes Apr 06 19:16:03 systemctl get-default Apr 06 19:16:24 would show maybe multi-user.target or graphical.target Apr 06 19:22:22 lxde is fast, but pressing r on keyboard shows screenshot dialog.. i can't type my wifi passwd Apr 06 19:22:54 you need the new kernel Apr 06 19:23:06 i installed it Apr 06 19:23:30 man ascii and copy paste :) Apr 06 19:23:34 oh then you need the fixes I did to lxqt-globalkeys to be applied to whatever lxde is using for shortcuts Apr 06 19:23:38 i can't believe i just wrote that Apr 06 19:24:28 our layouts are defining 'Print' as fn+... presumably r in the keyboard layout you've chosen Apr 06 19:27:28 the default shortcut key mapping stuff seems to make the false assuption that keys have only one purpose Apr 06 20:13:49 nice, i wanted to boot to android but pressing esc without holding the external button just shows the linux boot splash and nothing happens Apr 06 20:16:26 linux still works Apr 06 20:17:57 if you hold esc too long you get the recovery thing that is broken? Apr 06 20:18:33 you need to let go of esc sharpish on the device buzzing if thats the problem your having Apr 06 20:19:09 holding esc for long produced a dead android with "no command" Apr 06 20:19:19 yep Apr 06 20:19:41 is that the firmware update view? Apr 06 20:19:55 I don't think so Apr 06 20:20:10 releasing when the device buzzes shows tue planet logo with tux, but nothing happens Apr 06 20:20:25 perhaps the resize2fs broke android side? Apr 06 20:20:35 or the kernel update Apr 06 20:20:36 wait a bit you always get the tux logo now you've installed the dual bot Apr 06 20:20:47 well I've done both of them and its fine to goto android too Apr 06 20:21:16 ok, afk sauna, i'll let it boot meanwhile Apr 06 20:34:17 yep, it's stuck in the boot logo Apr 06 20:41:12 cos-, you already brick it :D Apr 06 20:41:35 cos-, could you modify Android's system partition? Apr 06 20:41:45 it has verity enabled from that Apr 06 20:41:51 it's still flashable hopefully.. and linux works :-) Apr 06 20:42:07 cos-, then you got all you need :P Apr 06 20:42:14 did you try sfos? Apr 06 20:42:25 is it available somewhere? Apr 06 20:43:26 cos-, not sure, TheKit might know **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 07 03:00:00 2018