**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 05 03:00:16 2018
Jun 05 10:15:52 <razumihin> Ok, now i've got the gemini on my desk.
Jun 05 10:16:03 <razumihin> Actually it seems better than i was expecting.
Jun 05 10:16:26 <razumihin> It's not perfect, but then it's a device that has less than 10k units ever manufactured.
Jun 05 10:20:20 <razumihin> Both hinge and keyboard could be more solid, but it's better build quality than gpd pocket by far.
Jun 05 10:20:30 <razumihin> And gpd has much more money to desing the thing.
Jun 05 10:21:40 <canny[m]> yey!  yeah I was impressed with the hardware when it arrived, considering the size of the team behind it and the unit volumes.   From what I was reading online, I was afraid the hinge was going to be as floppy as a 5.25" floppy disk...but yeah, it could be a /bit/ stiffer for my liking....
Jun 05 10:24:02 <leinir> Hehe, mine snaps snut with enough force to make everybody around me jump if they don't spot me doing it :)
Jun 05 10:25:26 <canny[m]> it does close well (and loud!) - I just would like it to be stiffer while open (ideally, if it were adjustable so you could have it at different angles, that would be ideal!)
Jun 05 10:25:43 <razumihin> canny[m]: Yeah, of course people of the internet always have a very hard opinions about everything :)
Jun 05 10:26:06 <razumihin> Yeah, I feel like its wobbling around quite a lot when i'm touching the screen
Jun 05 10:26:10 <razumihin> Not too bad, but could be stiffer.
Jun 05 10:27:21 <canny[m]> agreed!  I mean, as a first attempt, I really can't complain
Jun 05 10:27:22 <canny[m]> (well, I could, but what would be the point?)
Jun 05 10:28:43 <razumihin> Yeah.
Jun 05 10:29:30 <razumihin> Actually the thing i'm most disappointed about right now is that the usb-c hub does not have sd-card slot :)
Jun 05 10:29:40 <razumihin> So i could attach my camera to gemini easily.
Jun 05 10:36:11 * greguu received the gemini today, too
Jun 05 11:23:16 <VartiWork> "	 We wanted to let you know that your order 3926 was shipped via UPS on 05/06/2018.  You can track your package at any time using the link below"
Jun 05 11:23:21 <VartiWork> \o/
Jun 05 11:23:47 <leinir> Wooh! :D
Jun 05 11:25:03 <VartiWork> but this was a reply to an enquiry I sent earlier today to Planet, still no tracking email from UPS... at least I have now the tracking code
Jun 05 11:26:16 <VartiWork> the email lists both the All-in addons and the camera, I hope that no item will be missing at the end
Jun 05 11:27:36 <VartiWork> UPS' database seems to have not been updated yet
Jun 05 11:27:55 <VartiWork> "no shipment found"
Jun 05 11:28:33 <VartiWork> anyway, I'm now a step closer to get my Gemini :)
Jun 05 11:31:29 <leinir> Yeah, that's standard enough, that sometimes takes a day or two... because UPS and stuff
Jun 05 11:37:42 <razumihin> VartiWork: At least i got everything I ordered.
Jun 05 11:37:59 <razumihin> And I also got the UPS mail yesterday, the code worked this morning and I already got the gemini :)
Jun 05 11:38:23 <razumihin> That was pretty fast concidering how long packages normally take to arrive here.
Jun 05 11:39:42 <VartiWork> damn, you got it before me :P
Jun 05 11:40:15 <VartiWork> just kidding, and congrats
Jun 05 11:41:10 <VartiWork> I'm seriously considering to take a day off from working the day I'll receive it, not sure if my wife would agree though
Jun 05 11:41:26 <VartiWork> to have time to configure it etc.
Jun 05 11:42:40 <VartiWork> I'd like to have Android, Debian and Sailfish at the same time, but I think that isn't possible yet due to the lack of a boot menu, isn't it?
Jun 05 11:43:18 <canny[m]> VartiWork: I took all of last week off - but for a list of admin tasks (banking, paying taxes, sorting out a new car, etc...) but one important task was flashing the Gemini and playing about with Linux on it!
Jun 05 11:45:35 <canny[m]> One thing I wanted to check with y'all - there didn't seem to be a scatter file available for Rooted Android + Debian... has anyone achieved this?
Jun 05 11:49:58 <razumihin> VartiWork: :)
Jun 05 11:50:16 <razumihin> I've got a dl for a writing project for this evening, so the gemini just sits on the table :P
Jun 05 11:50:59 <razumihin> But hey, i've already edited 30 pages of text so i can send this early ;)
Jun 05 12:57:12 <razumihin> Okay, mosh works on this :)
Jun 05 13:14:09 <Captain_Harlock[> mosh is awesome.
Jun 05 14:58:13 <tristero> canny[m]: pretty sure I saw a post about this in the oesf forums, but I can't find it now. IIRC, you just need to replace one of the partition fields in the flashtool screen with the trusted img file, but I haven't done it myself
Jun 05 15:04:02 <canny[m]> tristero: cheers - yeah I think I need to compare a standard Android scatter file with the rooted Android scatter file and see which image files are referenced.  Must do it soon before it gets harder to wipe this thing!
Jun 05 15:07:47 <VartiWork> tristero: could be this the thread you mentioned? https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=35071&view=findpost&p=286490
Jun 05 15:08:13 <VartiWork> "if you want root on android, you need to use a good text editor (notepad++) to edit "Gemini_Dual_Boot.txt" and replace where it says "boot.img" to "patched_boot.img"."
Jun 05 15:10:34 <canny[m]> VartiWork: Legend - you've saved me squinting at text editors looking for subtle differences (or using 'diff').  I want another week off to really set this thing up the way I want it  ; )
Jun 05 15:46:10 <Captain_Harlock[> Possibly of interest: https://bytemybits.gitlab.io/post/2018-05-23-how-to-android-without-google-easy-way/
Jun 05 15:48:22 <TallTim> Honestly after reading a lot - I'm waiting for Sailfish so I can just break free all at once.
Jun 05 15:48:37 <TallTim> And the linux images and procedures will be more mature too.
Jun 05 15:50:29 <Captain_Harlock[> I have very little faith in sailfish. At one point, I tried to locate the source, to build it myself and was unable to find it. the project is extremely weird with how they handle everything.
Jun 05 16:11:25 <razumihin> hmm now i'm thinking how to get a good text editor on gemini...
Jun 05 16:11:46 <razumihin> Like is there a way chroot android to some debian or something.
Jun 05 16:12:08 <razumihin> So I could get vs code or spacemacs running...
Jun 05 16:13:05 <razumihin> I'm suprised how much i like this device at this point. I feel like i'm going to write a lot with it.
Jun 05 16:15:02 <TheKit> emacs should be easy in chroot
Jun 05 16:15:51 <tristero> canny[m]: bingo, that's the post I saw. If you try it, let us know how it goes
Jun 05 16:16:38 <TheKit> vs code... if you build it yourself for arm64
Jun 05 16:16:49 <razumihin> I I
Jun 05 16:16:56 <razumihin> I think it should build
Jun 05 16:17:25 <razumihin> But well i will look into it later
Jun 05 16:17:59 <razumihin> Now i think i have to put that child to sleep so i can continue playing around with this :)
Jun 05 16:20:52 <canny[m]> tristero: will do - hopefully in the next few days...
Jun 05 16:35:58 <TallTim> Well, if Sailfish isn't the way, I'll find some distro to slap on there. The current choices are limited. I'd rather wait for some improvements before I have to wipe and restore... Wish it wasn't so destructive, but I get there are technical reasons for it to be.
Jun 05 16:36:24 <TallTim> I love this thing, it really is a step up from basic "smart" phone usage
Jun 05 16:37:38 <TheKit> TallTim, well, the easiest way is to flash dualboot first
Jun 05 16:37:48 <TheKit> then you won't have to erase it all when repartitioning
Jun 05 16:38:05 <adam_b_> TallTim: the idea is that once you've picked your partition sizes updates should then become non-distructive, but yes I'd wait for the next release (should have tri-boot option)
Jun 05 16:38:14 <TallTim> I'm waiting for that to become better documented - I tried to follow the initial flashing guidelines and got stopped by need for a "scatter" file.
Jun 05 16:38:36 <TallTim> I'm moderately technically inclined, but I'm not going to sleuth my butt off if their own instructions can't be bothered to point the way.
Jun 05 16:38:48 <TallTim> Its just too green at the moment - I'll let everyone else be beta-testers ;)
Jun 05 16:39:21 <TallTim> Then I'll go through the whole mess of wiping everything out that I've done and re-doing it.
Jun 05 16:40:19 <adam_b_> yea mine is stuck in 'digital rain' so I'm stuck not being able to test anything just now
Jun 05 16:40:31 <TallTim> That sounds rather ominous
Jun 05 16:40:56 <razumihin> I think in technical line i'm in somewhere "guy who desings things like this" and i still think i'm going to stick to android :)
Jun 05 16:41:10 <razumihin> As dualboots are always cumbersome.
Jun 05 16:41:22 <TallTim> I would prefer to be rooted, but that seems a bit of a chore too at themoment
Jun 05 16:41:38 <TallTim> I think I will just sit down in December and redo it for the new year ;)
Jun 05 16:41:44 <razumihin> Yeah, i think i'm gonna root it later
Jun 05 16:41:53 <razumihin> :)
Jun 05 16:42:20 <razumihin> Now let's stick 200g memorycard into this thing.
Jun 05 16:42:27 <TallTim> I REALLY want to change the top status bar to black for everything, or remove it in some contexts. Can only do that with custom launchers/mods
Jun 05 16:42:32 <TallTim> Like XPose
Jun 05 16:42:39 <TallTim> haha yeah
Jun 05 16:42:49 <TallTim> I'll probably bump up to a quarter TB if it will handle it.
Jun 05 16:42:53 <razumihin> Can i get rid of the sie
Jun 05 16:43:03 <razumihin> de buttons without rooting?
Jun 05 16:43:33 <TallTim> Huh, good question - why those aren't dedicated button shortcuts instead I don't understand exactly
Jun 05 16:44:20 <razumihin> I think all the actions are on the keyboard. I'm just not used to the new android yet so i think i will have to look into what kind of launcher options it has available.
Jun 05 16:44:39 <razumihin> last android phone that I used was something like android 2.3 :)
Jun 05 16:44:48 <TallTim> I did a bit of research and it seems rooted is where all the best tools are
Jun 05 16:44:58 <TallTim> I was limping along in 4.0 land, so I know
Jun 05 16:45:41 <razumihin> Ok, i've had iDevices from 2014 or so.
Jun 05 16:45:55 <razumihin> ...wait 2010 or so
Jun 05 16:46:33 <razumihin> Time flies
Jun 05 16:46:49 <TallTim> The technology treadmill advances apace!
Jun 05 16:47:16 <razumihin> I think i have to write something positive about this device to the fb group as it's been so negative :)
Jun 05 16:47:32 <TallTim> Hope the Gemini team can rally the troops for a second-gen device. I know they've got their hands full.
Jun 05 16:47:38 <TallTim> I'd buy it, in a heartbeat
Jun 05 16:47:45 <TallTim> Oh?
Jun 05 16:47:45 <razumihin> Yeah.
Jun 05 16:48:00 <TallTim> I'm FB-less, so I had no idea.
Jun 05 16:48:10 <razumihin> People have been complaining about everything and in between
Jun 05 16:48:48 <razumihin> But well some of those have been justified and some more in the vein that they do not understand how small this is for a technology project.
Jun 05 16:48:56 <TallTim> Making hardware is complex and difficult. They have no idea. Just instant-gratification plebs.
Jun 05 16:49:44 <TallTim> I'm biased, I've seen how its hard to source things and get them made in China to exact specs.
Jun 05 16:49:59 <TallTim> slap-dash crap that has no quality? easy-peasy.
Jun 05 16:50:15 <TallTim> Not so much with demanding case-hinge designs and small tolerances.
Jun 05 16:50:43 <razumihin> Yeah they had like three prototype phases and got it to be this good.
Jun 05 16:50:51 <razumihin> I could not have made that in my projects :P
Jun 05 16:51:10 <TallTim> Precisely. Lots of work and rechecking of factory output, changing suppliers, etc..
Jun 05 16:51:27 <razumihin> And they got a random china factory to produce quite even quality too.
Jun 05 16:51:32 <razumihin> Yeah.
Jun 05 16:51:38 <TallTim> I admire PC for their efforts, I really do
Jun 05 16:51:43 <TallTim> I will buy every damn thing they make
Jun 05 16:51:46 <TallTim> Seriously
Jun 05 16:52:00 <razumihin> ...i think i already did! ;)
Jun 05 16:52:17 <razumihin> well there's that horrible gold thingie of course.
Jun 05 16:52:42 <razumihin> But now i'll go outside for a while->
Jun 05 16:52:57 <TallTim> cheers
Jun 05 17:27:20 <dep> i realize it's very early days, but is there a way yet to import contacts from sim card on linux side?
Jun 05 17:35:01 <andypugh> canny[m]: I assume you found the scatter-file making web page? (Which doesn’t give you an option on what Android version it is) http://support.planetcom.co.uk/download/partitionTool.html
Jun 05 17:50:48 <TallTim> dep - can linux utilities import .vcf files? I did that on android to migrate contacts.
Jun 05 17:56:29 <adam_b_> TallTim: see https://github.com/gemian/gemini-keyboard-apps/wiki/Migration
Jun 05 17:56:45 <TallTim> Thanks
Jun 05 17:58:42 <adam_b_> dep: probably but I've not used a phone that stored contacts on the sim so never looked into it
Jun 05 18:16:04 <dep> i don't know the structure of the data -- i'm moving from a BB10 blackberry. not a huge deal -- just wondered.
Jun 05 18:17:06 <adam_b_> dep: I doubt BB10 restricts itself to SIM only contacts, there should be an export option?
Jun 05 18:20:26 <dep> it offers an export-to-sim option, which seemed like a good way to bring them over.
Jun 05 18:20:49 <dep> i've been on BB since forever, so this is the first time i've done a major device change.
Jun 05 18:21:25 <dep> we'll see how it goes!
Jun 05 19:42:24 <Eeems[m]> I just got my gemini yesterday. I've noticed that the lowest display scale is still rather large in Android. Any suggestions?
Jun 05 19:43:12 * Eeems[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot_20180605-134243.png (63KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/sorunome.de/499219ea741b85fa53c32e8d3c963047>
Jun 05 19:43:41 <andypugh> You could try Debian, then it will all be far too small :-)
Jun 05 19:45:05 <Eeems[m]> Not really interested in flashing linux just yet.
Jun 05 19:45:25 <Eeems[m]> Plus, I'd rather mess around with something other than debian
Jun 05 19:46:54 <Eeems[m]> Looks like I can set the smallest witdh in e
Jun 05 19:47:01 <Eeems[m]> *developer settings
Jun 05 19:47:29 <Eeems[m]> Any suggestions?  Default is 423 dp
Jun 05 19:49:11 <Eeems[m]> 484 seems nice
Jun 05 19:49:39 <Eeems[m]> I think that's what I use to use on my Nexus 6
Jun 05 19:56:24 <kilobyte> measuring with a ruler, the real DPI is 480 horizontally, 403 vertically
Jun 05 19:57:15 <kilobyte> note non-square pixels
Jun 05 23:28:18 <dep> does anyone have cellular phone/data working under linux?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 06 03:00:10 2018