**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 17 03:00:02 2018 Jun 17 03:52:26 did you send your greeting in the new users section? Jun 17 03:52:33 i got my approval in less than 24 hours the other day Jun 17 07:48:49 How do I upgrade the gemini firmware, if I have just expanded the system on the sd card. Jun 17 07:49:01 The "Manual Update" just says no sd card. Jun 17 07:49:13 Should I get another sd card reader and use that. Jun 17 11:33:56 pre-downloading a bunch of things ahead of Gemini arriving in a few days. Jun 17 11:35:44 no wifi-only gemini firmware? I am expecting the 4G x27 to work, with the phone-related stuff simply not working. Jun 17 11:37:46 Kero: you might be the first to try that combo, someone else impatient went for: https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35180 Jun 17 11:43:21 the most exciting thing so far was unboxing the gemini Jun 17 11:43:31 it feels so boring with android Jun 17 11:44:51 TheKit, adam_b_ is there a working sfos for gemini yet? Jun 17 11:45:21 am ready to experiment, for now it is for me just an another device with android and a keyboard Jun 17 11:46:40 steve-marinos: PM @explit on Telegram for sailfish Jun 17 11:47:23 Kero, is there a working version ? Jun 17 11:47:31 see https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=34814&st=0 Jun 17 11:47:45 ok mate thanks I will Jun 17 11:49:02 Too bad I will only have a couple of days to experiment with my Gemini, before I am away for 3 weeks almost consecutively. Jun 17 11:49:31 I may just go with Termux and bring the gemini with me instead of my laptop Jun 17 11:50:57 and then from mid July I should be able to do real experiments and help with porting mainline linux Jun 17 11:51:08 dunno why busybox is not working on Gmini Jun 17 11:52:21 am not a developer but i like to tinker with my devices Jun 17 12:11:06 Kero: would be interested in feedback on usability of termux in lieu of installing Debian say. Jun 17 12:51:27 termux works - at least the basics (package installer, tried some applications) I didn't done much Jun 17 13:23:00 My use case is Emacs + org-mode for note taking and agenda. I do not particularly like Android so do intend to install Debian but stop-gap for quick use would be termux... Jun 17 13:24:45 if you can wait another planet 'week' then I'd suggest holding off at this point as the updated release is sure to be here soon and it saves a whole bunch of fiddle Jun 17 13:26:51 Okay, thanks. I don't even have my Gemini yet so waiting not a problem ;-) Mind you, hope to receive it soon... Jun 17 13:43:21 @steve-marinos I am running SFOS 2.1.3.7 myself. Mostly everything is working, I am able to use SFOS as my main OS. Their are tweaks you got to make to get some things right. I put all my notes on my Gitab (gitlab/Meganerd.eth) Jun 17 13:52:57 when did you get your steve-marinos ? Jun 17 13:54:35 WorkingClassDev, last week on tuesday Jun 17 13:54:39 ahh nice Jun 17 13:54:43 mine comes tomorrow Jun 17 13:54:59 and im off tues/weds for the cricket so might take it with me :D Jun 17 13:55:56 WorkingClassDev, I hear ya mate Jun 17 13:56:11 am taking it with me anywhere as my backup device Jun 17 13:56:27 I don't think this one will ever be my main device Jun 17 13:56:49 i only got a wifi one so its always been planned to be an auxilary with my phone still being my main device Jun 17 13:57:31 so far and for the near future I don;t think it will be my main Jun 17 13:57:55 you happy with it ? Jun 17 13:58:08 once you get beyond dual booting and such it becomes an anohter android with a keyboard Jun 17 13:58:33 yea, my plan is mainly live in linux but we'll see how well that goes Jun 17 13:58:34 it is a unique device for sure Jun 17 13:59:07 i have this feeling that after the novelty it'll end either in a draw or on ebay :| Jun 17 14:00:03 it got few interested and someone a business man took a photo of the phone and indiegogo link Jun 17 14:00:33 cool Jun 17 14:00:44 i expect people at work are going to be interested Jun 17 14:00:59 although at 500 quid i cant see it being a flyer at retail prices Jun 17 14:01:40 it will get more interesting i think once it start real dual booting with OSes that works Jun 17 14:02:15 I tried Debian and it is as alpha as it can be Jun 17 14:02:27 it is hard to work on the screen with touch controls Jun 17 14:02:30 in what way? buggy or just stuff not working ? Jun 17 14:02:44 the desktop experience Jun 17 14:02:49 it needs a mouse Jun 17 14:03:50 ahh right Jun 17 14:03:53 of course Jun 17 14:04:24 and weirdly I was expecting that dual boot will flash the rooted android Jun 17 14:04:26 it did not Jun 17 14:04:36 theres an image for that now Jun 17 14:04:37 it flashed the none root version Jun 17 14:04:51 well for 4g models Jun 17 14:05:05 and when i tried to change my android to rooted version it erased the debian image too Jun 17 14:05:19 hahah Jun 17 14:05:20 oops Jun 17 14:05:44 yeah so it is either so far a none root android with debian Jun 17 14:05:53 or root android no dual boot Jun 17 14:06:00 unless i missed something Jun 17 14:06:30 AutonomousSystem, am interested Jun 17 14:07:36 to be honest I rather have sailfish now over android Jun 17 14:07:48 I know Debian is a long term Jun 17 14:07:59 either would work for me Jun 17 14:08:14 i not that interested in android Jun 17 14:10:07 yeah with android I'd rather have any flagship or mid smartphone Jun 17 14:10:24 liek now am interested in the asus rog Jun 17 14:10:55 look it up an interesting device Jun 17 14:11:25 also have an extension to add a mous and keyboard and plug it to a monitor Jun 17 14:11:31 what model, asus rog (republic of gamers) is a brand for all their marketing stuff Jun 17 14:11:43 e.g. my 1080 is an asus rog card Jun 17 14:11:52 wait i will check the lkinls Jun 17 14:11:54 lins Jun 17 14:11:57 links Jun 17 14:11:59 lol Jun 17 14:12:00 oh i got it Jun 17 14:12:09 (stuck phone on the end) hahahah Jun 17 14:12:55 yep, thats a lot of phone Jun 17 14:15:27 so basically it can do what gemini can if we don't consider the dualboot Jun 17 14:15:51 and still it looks more as a mobile smartphone than the gemini Jun 17 14:21:45 @steve-marinos you can use rooted android + debian or SFOS Jun 17 14:24:42 Parititon tool, then with the flash tool select the exported partition file, then select root android boot image, and select twrp if you want to flash SFOS Jun 17 14:26:04 AutonomousSystem, you got my interest in sfos for sure Jun 17 14:26:11 forget about android :) Jun 17 14:26:47 The issue of the screen with Linux isnt much of an issue in my opinion, we can easily customize a desktop environment that suites the phone display. The latest KWin Debian image looked pretty good on that front. The thing that makes it not useable is the lack of CPU drivers for Linux Jun 17 14:27:15 AutonomousSystem, yeah if we get in depth Jun 17 14:27:48 I am personally really liking SFOS, I even began developing apps for it Jun 17 14:28:25 I also hate modern Android tbh so I am biased Jun 17 14:29:42 adroid was never my thing Jun 17 14:30:03 and to be honest also not SFOS Jun 17 14:30:38 between can we dualboot sfos with debian Jun 17 14:30:46 that would be the ultimate success Jun 17 14:31:33 up till this year i've been using ios Jun 17 14:31:37 I agree with that. I think we probably can by modifying the partition text file tbh Jun 17 14:32:19 I havent tried to do this, but looking at it I would expect it to work Jun 17 14:32:38 yea its just a matter of putting the right kernels in the right boot partitions Jun 17 14:33:43 If we get those Linux CPU drivers then I would be sooo happy :) Jun 17 14:34:10 KDE Plasma mobile desktop is looking greate Jun 17 14:34:37 well someone has to fix the plasma key grabber to not take whole keys when only the fn+... should be taken Jun 17 14:35:28 I didnt play with it enough to see whats broken since its so slow at rendering any screen changes Jun 17 14:35:46 oh its quite fast if you do the updates Jun 17 14:35:50 AutonomousSystem, how can I get in touch with you for sfos Jun 17 14:36:00 :o they fixed it Jun 17 14:36:19 Is that the latest debian image? or do I need to do a dist-upgrade? Jun 17 14:36:43 well when are you last uptodate with, we've not done anything much in the last three weeks or so Jun 17 14:36:59 @steve-marinos email me at 0x00000009@protonmail.com Jun 17 14:37:02 and its the re-build of qt that made it faster which was a while ago Jun 17 14:37:18 but yea everything it apt-get updatable Jun 17 14:38:34 though you do have to have things configured right, using kwin and not composing or something Jun 17 14:39:52 definately counts as brittle to get it to stick to using acceleration, apt-get installing something inicous sounding can pull in some other depedency and it all falls down Jun 17 14:41:42 Im at the planetcom Debian download preview 1 (10/05/2018). Can I flash the x25 image on my x27 Gemini? Jun 17 14:41:51 thats the only updated one I see Jun 17 14:43:18 Hmm I see instructions for kernel update. I did not do this part. I think thats my issue then Jun 17 15:02:52 does x work in debian ? Jun 17 15:03:59 adam_b : no kidding about brittle. still haven't recovered from that "decurity" update the other night. Jun 17 15:04:11 yes, we've not moved to wayland yet Jun 17 15:04:27 decurity=security Jun 17 15:04:39 dep: that sucks Jun 17 15:05:00 yes. that would definitely be the word! Jun 17 15:06:10 adam_b : wondering: on desktop linux you can get pure text consolu, full screen, via alt-ctrl-f1. no framebuffer or anything. there is no way to do this with gemini? Jun 17 15:06:49 can you try installing glamor-hybris xserver-xorg-video-hwcomposer to check they've not been removed or something Jun 17 15:09:15 dep: I think that would require a pure text screen driver, which no one has made so far as I know Jun 17 15:09:20 ther haven't been removed. but autoremove wants me to be rid of: Jun 17 15:09:30 Couldnt you change the run level? Jun 17 15:09:36 libcdio13 libdirectfb-1.2-9 libgles1-mesa libiso9660-8 libvcdinfo0 Jun 17 15:09:38 libvlccore8 Jun 17 15:10:10 in the config around here: https://github.com/gemian/gemian-multistrap-config/blob/5c59e21582159b21ad771a0c87dac2cf54a65072/debian-gemini-config.sh#L23 Jun 17 15:10:17 check that that bit is still set Jun 17 15:11:48 forgive my denseness -- where would i find that on the device? Jun 17 15:12:30 yea this is magic config made by NeKit so I'm not massively familure with how you'd check either, but to me an update alternatives sounds like something a random package might feel like it could change Jun 17 15:13:42 adam_b_: if i would like to get my hands dirty with the "text screen driver", do you have any more pointers? What is the correct term for this mode? Jun 17 15:14:07 looks like the update-alt... does display as well as create etc so a --display might print out what its set to Jun 17 15:14:23 gobuki: best to ask NeKit where you'd start on that Jun 17 15:15:07 adam_b_: ok. Here in this channel? Jun 17 15:15:46 gobuki: yea though also TheKit/NotKit depending on reconnections Jun 17 15:17:48 gobuki: "console" would also be a search term, I suppose Jun 17 15:18:12 gobuki, start with enabling CONSOLE_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE.html in kernel config Jun 17 15:18:28 then you might need to debug why it's not working with MTK framebuffer driver Jun 17 15:21:03 fwiw /etc/alternatives/aarch64-linux-gnu_egl_conf says /usr/lib/aarch64-linux-gnu/libhybris_egl which is as it should be, no? Jun 17 15:22:09 try: update-alternatives --display aarch64-linux-gnu_egl_conf Jun 17 15:22:25 as it gives more info Jun 17 15:23:46 dep, the issue you have is with chromium? Jun 17 15:23:56 mh. ok. At first i still have to succeed in creating a backup. It stops after some hundred Mb (linux). Did anyone experience something like this? Jun 17 15:24:31 gobuki: backup? its probably worth setting up for kernel builds on a desktop Jun 17 15:24:38 TheKit : That's where I noticed it -- went back to full unaccel. Haven't spent much time looking at other stuff. Jun 17 15:24:48 I would check if chrome://gpu has "--use-gl=egl" switch in Command Line Jun 17 15:25:02 It just hangs without error message. Yes, backup. The read back feature of the flash tool. Jun 17 15:25:03 otherwise it might be due to changes in .desktop file getting overwritten Jun 17 15:25:28 gobuki: oh for the nvram, yea its probably worth getting that to work first Jun 17 15:25:40 nvram isn't hundred mb though Jun 17 15:26:03 good point Jun 17 15:26:11 is modem manager disabled? it's known to conflict with FlashTool somehow Jun 17 15:27:07 TheKit: No, it isn't. I guess you're right. that seems to be the case here. Jun 17 15:27:21 i feel better with a full backup Jun 17 15:27:39 gobuki: were you wifi only? Jun 17 15:27:51 no, i have the g4 model Jun 17 15:27:58 4G Jun 17 15:28:00 then all the other stuff is available Jun 17 15:28:08 just need to backup any user files Jun 17 15:29:11 ThKit : the "security" upgrade gave me a whole new chromium. the symlinks are still in place. and i have no idea how or where LXQt Jun 17 15:29:21 stores the commandline for applications Jun 17 15:29:31 i haven't found a way to verify i have everything backup up correctly. At least one guide said I would just have to click add in the read back tab one time without mentioning addresses. Jun 17 15:30:42 Is all I need the first "partition" in the android scatter file? Jun 17 15:30:52 dep, https://github.com/gemian/gemini-keyboard-apps/wiki/DebianTP#speed-up-chromium Jun 17 15:30:57 You can tell chromium to use open gl, add --use-gl=egl to the desktop file: /usr/share/applications/chromium.desktop Jun 17 15:31:06 or https://github.com/gemian/gemian-multistrap-config/blob/master/configs/etc/chromium.d/use-egl.conf Jun 17 15:34:16 TheKit: just add that line at the bottom? not at all sure of the syntax. Jun 17 15:34:59 adam_b_ linked way is easier Jun 17 15:35:42 just figured that that config might better survive an app update Jun 17 15:42:24 fixed it. is there a reason why this can't be/shouldn't be applied to entire system, higher up someplace? Jun 17 15:42:57 why do debian packages never manage to pass a file between them, dep what magic did you do to get the upgrade to work with the security patched libreoffice? Jun 17 15:44:02 Exec=/usr/bin/chromium --use-gl=egl %U in /usr/share/applications/chromium.desktop Jun 17 15:45:17 i've pretty much abandoned libreoffice for abiword because of libreoffice's inscrutable configurations. will try it now. Jun 17 15:45:40 its moaning that dialog.xlc being in both -common and -base Jun 17 15:46:09 I suspect its simplest to just uninstall it Jun 17 15:46:18 nope. libreoffice is now deadly slow. Jun 17 15:47:11 dep: my question was in regards to the adding the security upstream and then doing an apt upgrade, it gets stuck in my case and I figured you'd have had the same that was all Jun 17 15:48:14 in my case it worked, with the resulting mess, so i commented it out in my sources list. Jun 17 15:49:04 the security reporitory, that is. Jun 17 15:49:14 reporitory = repository Jun 17 15:49:25 TheKit: next time we make a new release we should probably add the security patches too Jun 17 16:03:17 When i use the flash tool to flash the debian TP image, don't i get single boot linux? I just did that, but it bootet into android and ran the first start wizard. Jun 17 16:04:44 if you want debian as primary boot you have to tick the box on partition tool to select that, otherwise your pressing buttons to pick non standard boot Jun 17 16:04:58 https://github.com/gemian/gemini-keyboard-apps/wiki/Bootloader Jun 17 16:05:20 mh. so i have to use the partition tool in any case? That wasn't clear to me. Jun 17 16:05:43 you working from the latest (but old) release http://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Gemini_Firmware Jun 17 16:06:03 yes Jun 17 16:06:18 well the bit that starts 'Dual Boot Android/Linux'... Jun 17 16:06:33 has link to partition tool etc Jun 17 16:08:21 only thing to note from the DebianTP page is that if you pick default linux then you need to update the kernel via the flash tool, so might as well start with that Jun 17 16:09:39 I saw that, but i didn't find an answer to a problem i have. When i select the scatter file, i created using the partition tool, i get a table of partitions in the download tab, but without filenames. The filenames in the scatter file are relative, so if i put them into either one of the image directories, how is the other system picked up? Jun 17 16:10:10 you need all image files in one directory Jun 17 16:10:49 uncertain how you've got more more than one directory to play with Jun 17 16:11:25 mmh.. but the filenames in Gemini_Android_1_1_0 and Gemini_Debian_TP directories collide. Jun 17 16:11:53 maybe you downloaded some old files? Jun 17 16:12:02 adam_b_: i extracted the Android and Debian TP images to get the directories Jun 17 16:12:11 that page I linked above has single zip with all three in it Jun 17 16:12:26 adam_b_: oh ok. i'll take a look at it Jun 17 16:12:36 its name is 'Android + rooted + DTP1' Jun 17 16:12:50 though with less abreviation Jun 17 16:13:38 it has no debian scatter file (when I downloaded it) so you have to use the scatter file Jun 17 16:13:53 oops I mean partition tool Jun 17 16:14:50 found it. I must have missed that, even though i flew over it multiple times. Jun 17 16:15:32 yea it looks like they still have the old release up: http://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Android_Support Jun 17 16:15:40 not suppriseing people are downloading the previous release Jun 17 16:16:11 adam_b_: exactly, this is where i got it Jun 17 16:16:27 I'll email davide and suggest he takes that down Jun 17 16:19:44 that would be nice, so others don't stumble over it Jun 17 16:20:25 it might explain someone saying that their android patch dates had rolled backwards in time too Jun 17 16:34:15 i dont know Jun 17 16:34:23 the complaints were coming from stock users who took the ota Jun 17 16:34:26 if i recall correctly Jun 17 16:34:35 then that would be unrelated Jun 17 16:34:58 and even more strange Jun 17 16:35:35 yea, im totally confused by it Jun 17 16:36:01 but enough people have complained about it that it seems like its likely real Jun 17 16:39:54 yay! debian running. I love it :D Jun 17 16:40:13 Thanks for your help. Jun 17 16:42:13 I saw there is some ofono work going on. Is there hope that I can start full duplex phone calls in the future? If it's usable from the shell only, that would be ok for me Jun 17 16:42:57 gobuki: just migrating to mer-ofono which should support that Jun 17 16:43:07 was ubports-ofono before Jun 17 16:44:59 you have to do 'fiddle' stuff particularly around audio Jun 17 16:45:01 Very cool. Then this device will be all i wanted it to be. It's already very nice though. Better than anything i have owned before. Jun 17 16:46:08 adam_b_: if it bears fruits i don't mind any fiddling :-) Jun 17 16:46:48 i'm going to hang out and watch progress Jun 17 17:23:54 gobuki: the read beack feature seems to be quite sensible about timing. give the tool a high priority, write to a fast ssd and make nothing else in the computer Jun 17 17:24:03 got this problems yesterday as wel Jun 17 17:35:55 is the debian image suitable for the "linux deploy" app under android as well? Jun 17 17:36:45 this way one could use the image until the drivers are capable anough for a sole debian Jun 17 17:38:18 mifritscher: disabling ModemManager solved it. I read it would interfere with the flashing process, but didn't expect it to cause problems with read back. Jun 17 17:38:22 mifritscher, it can be used with some setup Jun 17 17:38:47 ah, good (@both :-) ) Jun 17 17:39:10 TheKit: some else than the "normal" Linux deploy setup? Jun 17 17:40:10 more or less normal, like use whole partition for Linux and skipping installation step Jun 17 17:40:26 (easy through Linux Deploy UI) Jun 17 17:41:50 ah, ok, so no further adaption in the debian system itself - very good Jun 17 17:42:10 may need some small hacks here and there, but needs to be tried Jun 17 17:42:17 (I'm used to use linux deploy in a partition setup) Jun 17 17:42:56 beware that XServer XSDL won't be faster than current xf86-video-hwcomposer setup, especially at 2K resolution though Jun 17 17:43:07 hmm - planet wants to release a newer TP by end of the month - perhaps we manage it to let planet squeeze in these hacks? Jun 17 17:43:42 the xserver xsdl is fast enough even on the photon q *g* (ok, there is a library to be exchanged for X shared memory) Jun 17 17:51:03 mifritscher: that newer DebianTP is just the existing one plus all the updates, its just a shortcut for new downloaders Jun 17 17:51:29 yes, but planet said on a comment that they will release a new version and I should wait until that Jun 17 18:12:34 when and how might the 4.x kernel be rolled out? Jun 17 18:13:12 im under the impression that wont happen because of mediatek Jun 17 18:13:38 i think work is being done on it by some of the guys here. Jun 17 18:13:58 i thought the blobs were incompatible, happy to be wrong Jun 17 18:14:01 "a long time from now", sadly Jun 17 18:14:26 WorkingClassDev: nothing is impossible, but kernel devs are scarce and overworked and (for this project) unpaid Jun 17 18:14:43 alas. another vote for my pulling the trigger on the gpd pocket. Jun 17 18:15:04 I'm importing my huge javafx project into intellij on the gemini. haha :D Jun 17 18:15:11 quite impressive so far Jun 17 18:18:29 dep: 4.17 mainline sort of boots (just before userland), and there is a os effort for the mali. Everything else is os as far as I know, but not in the state of being mainlined Jun 17 18:19:18 that's kind of what i thought -- that we might get better video support plus whatever other goodies there are. Jun 17 18:20:50 thoughh i'm still thinking that the pocket is going to be better for running linux in the forseeable future. Jun 17 18:21:40 pocket has a fan - only one showstopper for me^^ Jun 17 18:22:34 its that keyboard for me Jun 17 18:22:39 I think it is doable for the gemini. The sitation is about the same as was for the allwinner in the 3.4 days - but now the have a rather good effort on the mali Jun 17 18:22:44 yes, and the keyboard Jun 17 18:22:57 yup, that's irritating. as is having to take it apart to replace the heat-sink paste. i can live with the keyboard. Jun 17 18:23:28 though the one mix yoga has a cool backlit keyboard and more ports, the chip is slower. Jun 17 18:24:00 both apparently do hdmi under linux without a trick adapter or as-yet-unwritten software. Jun 17 18:24:37 which is to say they paid the $5. Jun 17 18:24:57 plus whatever it cost to get a real chip sted of mediatek. Jun 17 18:25:37 the good thing is: every other piece is already open source. I'm still hoping that there will be an alliance to get it mainlined soon Jun 17 18:25:53 (its a pity that I've no time in the next weeks :-( ) Jun 17 18:26:37 that would be good, yes. Jun 17 18:27:04 and some kind of useful pressure on mediatek, though i can't imagine that happening. Jun 17 18:28:28 is there any other component than mali which is closed source on the driver side? Jun 17 18:28:44 if not we are already almost at the paradise^^ Jun 17 18:28:54 and maybe a video from naimi wu on dual booting the gemini! Jun 17 18:29:06 naimi=naomi Jun 17 18:29:42 the phone stuff is blobland, is it not? Jun 17 18:41:52 If I know correctly, the phone stuff is a blob, but you load more or less a blobb (=firmware) into the modem and then it does it own stuff Jun 17 18:42:00 but not sure Jun 17 19:09:09 are all other HW pieces really open? wifi/bt? gps? (compass?) camera? touch screen? sound/mic? whatelse? Jun 17 19:11:48 Kero: the mediatek kernel is open-source, but not at all up to kernel code quality standards or design conventions Jun 17 19:12:08 I don't know which devices have mainline drivers and which don't Jun 17 19:18:32 does anyone know how to get the sd card out? bought a bigger one but my 'old' one seems stuck Jun 17 19:19:51 open-source with blobs, where the API of the blob changes with an android update, isn't too useful. I guess I'm asking whether the blobs are absent or stable enough to work with. I also guess the answers will be fairly uncertain for some drivers. Jun 17 19:23:45 touch screen/wifi/bt/gps/camera rely on kernel space, which is open Jun 17 19:23:53 in any case, my schedule has loads of free time starting mid-July. If it remains that way, I'll help with mainlining the kernel. Jun 17 19:24:00 sweet! Jun 17 19:24:07 video decoding is tricky though Jun 17 19:24:37 * Kero imagines the GPU API to be very complex - even if stable. Jun 17 19:24:40 MediaTek mainlined some bits for Chromebooks, not sure how compatible is it, but Android implementation relies on closed blobs Jun 17 19:26:33 I'm getting less worried about closed blobs per se; I'm sure there is too much broken software running underneath the OS that we cannot access, that we have a security nightmare anyway. Like, say, any modern PC/laptop. Jun 17 19:26:37 I mentioned about camera at wrong place though, it relies on rather complicated user space which we have source for, but it's done for Android Jun 17 19:27:06 HW is closed blob, too, in a sense. Jun 17 19:39:43 <_sven> TheKit: what would i need to change rear camera modul? I read the 5MP accessories camera is worse. What about the 13 MP Camera modul from Xiaomi redmi note 4x It has 2x 15 pin connector like the gemini pda rear camera. Adam Piggs ported SF for the redmi. So blobs are available. Can we change the camera module? Jun 17 19:40:34 no idea on hardware level, I would check what module does Vernee Apollo Lite has Jun 17 19:40:49 (there are sources for it and it's almost same X20 SoC) Jun 17 19:41:34 but blobs from Qualcomm devices are surely not compatible Jun 17 19:42:22 I suppose kernel space is responsible for sensor and blobs are for futher image processing, but can't say for sure Jun 17 19:42:28 *further Jun 17 19:49:18 is anyone looking at gpu acceleration currently? Jun 17 19:49:48 https://github.com/ptitSeb/gl4es works nicely in pbuffer mode, trying to figure out how to make it work without a gpu-cpu-gpu copy Jun 17 19:52:58 Darkimmortal, what do you want to achieve? Jun 17 19:54:22 'proper' opengl support for compositing and running games Jun 17 19:55:03 for compositing we would really want to use EGL/GLES, but for games OpenGL wrapper can be useful Jun 17 19:55:37 the bit that's eluding me is how to get the resulting texture/surface through to the hwcomposer driver Jun 17 19:56:04 judging by chromium it must be possible Jun 17 19:57:00 why do you have to resort to pbuffer buffer in gl4es? Jun 17 19:57:04 *pbuffer mode Jun 17 19:58:51 https://github.com/gemian/libhybris/blob/master/hybris/egl/platforms/x11/x11_window.cpp#L301 - that's basically the glue to present EGL buffer to glamor Jun 17 19:58:58 the other modes are crashing on eglCreateWindowSurface Jun 17 20:00:27 you have EGL_PLATFORM=x11 set, right? I suppose that could be debugged in hybris, x11 glue was written by me (usually libhybris is used with wayland instead) and is far from perfect Jun 17 20:01:41 https://github.com/gemian/libhybris/blob/master/hybris/egl/platforms/x11/eglplatform_x11.cpp#L123 Jun 17 20:02:16 yeah, that link is very useful though, i had been looking at xf86-video-hwcomposer, didn't realise there was more to it Jun 17 20:11:57 whats the cause of the mouse cursor changing themes making the mouse lag into oblivion Jun 17 20:12:05 it completely breakss some apps like gimp Jun 17 20:18:24 <_sven> TheKit: the Vernee Apollo Lite Camera has a 2x 19 pin connector. Incompatible with the gemini pda 2x 15 pin connector. Jun 17 20:19:06 kamui: you might find this is better for apps like gimp: https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35185 Jun 17 20:20:00 adam_b_: im using that, thats where the cursor issue became noticeable Jun 17 20:20:23 i does the same thing in touchscreen mode, just much harder to "notice" because you can't see the cursor change directly correlate with the framerate of the mouse tank Jun 17 20:20:51 also I feel like we talked about this on t-gram Jun 17 20:20:52 just yesterday Jun 17 20:20:55 :) Jun 17 20:21:18 oh yea, i guess im using my real name there... Jun 17 20:21:19 lol Jun 17 20:22:20 would be interesting to load both libinput and mtrack drivers though and switch between them on runtime Jun 17 20:22:49 kamui: that mtrack input thing does appear to be in active development, so probably it has bugs Jun 17 20:22:55 as for mouse cursor, in theory it's glamor responsible for that, but no hardware overlay is used for that Jun 17 20:25:10 adam_b_, it's not mtrack bug, but issue with xf86-video-hwcomposer performance for sure, as input driver is not responsible for rendering cursor Jun 17 20:25:51 so its in the difficult to fix category Jun 17 20:27:02 doah Jun 17 20:28:25 but looks like you can put both input devices in and then xinput --enable/disable by id to switch so that part at least should be possible Jun 17 20:34:44 AccelMethod "none" (which disables glamor) makes it better, but this breaks EGL integration glue and gives invisible sddm login prompt Jun 17 20:41:05 tried mtrack myself, it's surprisingly usable, partially thanks to rather wide screen Jun 17 20:43:03 adam_b_, Xorg won't allow two drivers for some input device, I think Jun 17 20:43:07 *same Jun 17 20:44:07 ahh that might be a problem Jun 17 21:11:37 I can hear the cpu working with headphones on. hope it doesn't take another 15 years until we get the next iteration of this concept. Jun 17 21:13:14 I wonder why so many devices have this hiss from the cpu. Seems like a standard problem that would be solved with a couple of cents worth of parts. Jun 17 21:14:21 or is it a problem of the mediatek chip, that can't be solved externally? ... mhh Jun 17 21:25:13 doubt it, otherwise all X20/X25 devices would have it Jun 17 21:27:54 I'm pretty sure all do Jun 17 21:28:46 but i guess you answered to something else? Jun 17 21:29:19 to you Jun 17 21:30:03 I have noticed this noise in a lot of devices. It's not very loud, but noticeable Jun 17 21:31:22 you mean exactly that SoC devices? Jun 17 21:31:31 Maybe it's not the cpu but a power supply. I don't know. Jun 17 21:31:38 I mean devices with a CPU and audio jack. Jun 17 21:32:04 ah, ok Jun 17 21:32:30 well, then Gemini is the most noticable from what I have Jun 17 21:32:42 didn't happen on Xiaomi Redmi Note 2 (Helio X10) Jun 17 21:33:33 Oh. Is it a known problem with the X27? Jun 17 21:36:09 Guess i'm too tired to follow you, but anyway.. it's not that big a problem. I'm looking for things to criticize :-) Jun 17 21:46:50 It seems to be a powersaving issue on the audio channel Jun 17 21:47:42 that may be true, i will test different settings when i have time Jun 17 21:48:46 do you know what /vendor/bin/emdlogger1 is? I just grepped ps aux for logger after reading a blog of a guy complaining about a keylogger "mtklogger" in geminis android. Jun 17 21:48:50 the cpu noise is really really loud Jun 17 21:49:00 i forgot about that Jun 17 21:49:10 none of my other devices do it Jun 17 21:49:22 tried to run ldd on it, but it fails Jun 17 21:50:06 that would be a major issue :( Jun 17 21:50:49 it's louder when no audio is playing Jun 17 21:51:08 even if you play silent audio like a video with no sound Jun 17 21:51:11 ali1234: yes, i also noticed this Jun 17 21:51:57 to me that says the amplifier input is floating when the audio out in power saving mode Jun 17 21:53:18 On my Dell XPS13 I must set Mic Boost to 1 (from 0-3) to reduce noise. i.e. fiddling with various settings may have unexpected positive effect Jun 17 22:04:02 Is there any info available about the files under /vendor/bin ? Jun 17 22:05:20 There are 34 exectuables from this folder running on my debian. Jun 17 22:18:35 So I just read some strings from the emdlogger1 file, it creates a socket to the Internet and also appears to dump config settings to log files. So it is reporting data somewhere Jun 17 22:19:38 its running on my sfos, I may rename the file to stop it Jun 17 22:29:43 Interesting Jun 17 22:36:07 ok so I can see it dumps the RAM as part of the logging... not cool! Jun 17 22:37:32 yea, not in combination with the socket Jun 17 22:42:24 AutonomousSystem: you say it creates a socket to the internet. So it is an IP listening socket? Or does it open a connection? Jun 17 22:43:42 strings says: Success to setup socket local server Jun 17 22:43:42 and more Jun 17 22:44:07 at least at home a listening socket wouldn't be that much of a problem i naively hope Jun 17 22:44:13 I dont see any IP addresses or domains but I only briefly scanned over it Jun 17 22:44:37 Either way data collection is a kill -9 for me Jun 17 22:44:54 but i don't like it at all. guess we have to live with it with this SoC though. Jun 17 22:45:09 Unless someone can patch it out. Jun 17 22:45:09 it appears to run on android, debian, and sfos Jun 17 22:45:21 I just killed the process and renamed the file Jun 17 22:45:39 if that doesn't cause problems, i will do that too Jun 17 22:45:41 theirs 5 of them Jun 17 22:45:45 Nothing so far Jun 17 22:45:51 I dont expect it too Jun 17 22:46:23 sounds good enough Jun 17 22:48:30 AutonomousSystem: did you mount -o rw,remount /system to change the filenames? Jun 17 22:49:00 Just used a root shell actually Jun 17 22:49:12 it says read-only filesystem here Jun 17 22:49:40 Perhaps boot twrp and mount? Jun 17 22:50:15 mh. can not even remount. mount: cannot remount /dev/loop0 read-write, is write-protected Jun 17 22:50:46 I didn't install twrp. I will try everything else before that. Jun 17 22:52:06 the file /vendor/data/misc/ProjectConfig,mk is interesting. not necessarily ominous, but interesting. Jun 17 22:54:01 i don't know why but it reminds me of editing the settings file of c&c red alert when i look at this file Jun 17 22:56:17 Yeah just config info in that file. My issue with the other is the passwords, etc that would be in a RAM dump Jun 17 22:58:16 AutonomousSystem: did you check the other binaries also? or just the ones ending with "logger"? Jun 17 22:59:00 AutonomousSystem: may i ask which tool you're using to look at it? just strings? Jun 17 22:59:31 or did you disassemble? Jun 17 22:59:48 strings and hexedit Jun 17 23:00:07 let me poke around other files with logger in filename Jun 17 23:00:27