**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 27 02:59:58 2020 Jan 27 09:27:41 on the basis of davedoom's complaints, my own observations with my Cosmo, and other people's complaints or lack thereof on the OESF forums - it seems likely that the Gemini and the Cosmo have essentially identical keyboards, but there's a huge amount of variation between units (and even between keys) Jan 27 09:28:44 This keyboard is irritating me to the extent that I would expect to see more complaints from other people than I do. Jan 27 09:30:30 Interesting. That's a reasonable explanation for what I see as well. I love the keyboard on the Cosmo, while the one on my gemini is quite wonky. A guy on the Telegram chat has lots of problems with his Cosmo keyboard. Jan 27 09:31:18 And colleague who also has a Cosmo is not as enthusiastic about his keyboard. I've tried it and it's better than the one on my Gemini, but I can understand that he's not excited. Jan 27 09:31:34 The keyfeel and spacing is such that I should be able to touch type at breakneck speed, but the accuracy is so poor that it slows me down by 50%. I can't complete a sentence without multiple errors, mostly of the form of keys not registering. I used to get double letters, but that seems to av Jan 27 09:31:41 have stoppee Jan 27 09:31:52 hasn't stopped, apparently... Jan 27 09:31:55 :-\ Jan 27 09:32:10 yeah. Goddamn it. Jan 27 09:33:03 I also hit enter accidentally a lot, which is compounded by having it next to backspace. Which I need frequently. Jan 27 10:10:52 If it's of any relevance as a datapoint, my gemini keyboard at first was OK but the spacebar had to be hit in the middle to register, which was frustrating. But after some use the problem has gone away Jan 27 10:11:11 I just wish I could get a resonable linux install on it. For now I make do with termux Jan 27 10:13:33 What's unreasonable about gemian for you? I'm having severe performance (leading to battery) problems and problems with android driver blobs. Jan 27 10:46:13 After some experimentation I can say that the problem with my 'e' key is that it doesn't register if struck at the top of the key. The other keys don't have this problem. Jan 27 10:47:06 No matter how hard I push, the key doesn't register if I push on the key above the top bar of the letter 'e' Jan 27 10:47:58 Actually, the adjacent 'w' is similar. Jan 27 10:47:59 Be very careful when removing keys from the gemini or cosmo keyboard. It's extremely easy to make things worse, as I had to learn. :-( Jan 27 10:48:20 (i.e. damaging the keyboard mat or the rings under the keys) Jan 27 10:49:16 I now realize with this discovery that it's not something I can get used to - the keyboard is defective, by any reasonable standard. Jan 27 10:50:06 any tips for avoiding damage? Jan 27 10:50:12 (As posted by varti[m] here: https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=34768 "A warning to anyone messing with the keyboard (in case of tilted keys): make sure to lift the keys from the upper (screen-facing) side. Otherwise, the tiny overhang that prevents the keys from falling out can be teared off") Jan 27 10:50:44 I did that with 2 of my keys on the gemini, unfortunately, before reading this post. Jan 27 10:51:55 There's also the official keyboard mat replacement guide, which (still I think) fails to mention this. Jan 27 10:56:43 do you feel the keyboard is too wide? Jan 27 11:02:02 i was hoping for a size of htc desire z or samsung captivate glide, but gemini/cosmo are huge compared to them Jan 27 11:07:19 The form factor is great for me. I have large Hands. I found the desire Z keyboard quite a bit too small (and if I'm honest, also the keyboard on the original G1). Jan 27 11:10:55 Form factor is perfect. Touch typing is very easy, and thumb typing is quite practical once you're used to it. Jan 27 11:11:05 I had a bunch of those Motorola sliders. At the time they worked a treat for me but now my eye are too poor to make out the letters. I miss the form factor. The clam shell style is not to useful. Jan 27 11:11:31 I'm sure it protects the screen but I can't use it to navigate on the bike. Jan 27 11:11:50 Also fishing it out of your pocket to type something quick is notgoing to happen. Jan 27 11:12:49 There's tradeoffs, to be sure. You probably want a smartwatch or some such togo with it Jan 27 11:13:06 The cover display is basically a smartwatch, bolted to the outside. Jan 27 11:13:38 But you absolutely can fish it out of your pocket to type something quick, I do it often. Jan 27 11:14:39 The convenience of a small slider is superior, but at the expense of typing performance. Coding on such things is painful, but on the Cosmo it's a joy. Jan 27 11:15:14 I've barely opened my laptop since getting the Cosmo. Jan 27 11:15:45 And that's with the annoying keyboard, which prevents me from fully falling in love. Jan 27 11:16:37 for my usage, i just want to have a qwerty keyboard while on the move. i'm not expecting to use it on a table Jan 27 11:24:18 TauPan I want to use xfce but when I install it certain keys stop working. I'd also really like to use a newer debian so that I can use an AppMenu plugin, although I didn't investigate what would be needed to back port that Jan 27 11:26:00 I also think the battery life is not great in gemian, but I could live with that if other things were working. Jan 27 11:27:45 In terms of sliders etc, I have used many but to be honest got on best with a nokia E6 and E55. Would love to see an E55 (half qwerty keyboard) or full qwerty (blackberry style) android phone. Jan 27 11:28:36 I'm not looking for the gemini to replace my phone though... the only real reason I'd want a cosmo is for the backlit keyboard and performance boost Jan 27 11:31:35 munchausen: Yeah, I think some things are hardwired to the lxqt environment. I've configured my gemian to use a plain Xsession with qtile (python window manager) but I had to tweak a couple of things to get it right. Jan 27 11:32:45 munchausen: If it helps, I do setxkbmap de "Gemini german" in my xsession on the gemini. I'm not sure if I do other keyboard tweaks (via xmodmap). Jan 27 11:34:32 TauPan thanks I will make a note of that. Perhaps it could be the same problem Jan 27 11:40:18 (replace 'de' and 'german' with iso code and language of choice, obviously ;) Jan 27 11:51:07 Wifi seems a little flaky... Jan 27 12:26:44 Seems it likes to suspend the wifi when I'm not looking - and hence disconnect... Jan 27 16:08:07 mal: if it's not too much trouble, could upload the old Sailfish images for mango somewhere, if you have them? Jan 27 16:14:03 sure Jan 27 16:27:23 awesome sauce Jan 27 18:38:20 14 months and the cosmo arrived in finland :) Jan 27 19:18:40 :-) Jan 27 19:24:58 it's as if they built it from nothing Jan 27 19:25:01 oh wait i think they did Jan 27 20:13:59 looks like the firmware update service is not working(?) Jan 27 20:14:47 cosmo doesn' find any fw update. it's Cosmo-9.0-Planet-10292019-V15.<20191029_1401> Jan 27 22:14:39 yeah, you need to at least flash the v16 manually Jan 27 22:14:55 link is e.g. at the comments in indiegoog Jan 27 23:55:48 can someone put that link in the welcome thing for the irc channel? Jan 28 00:18:10 If you root with the images on the oesf thread, will it cause problems with later firmware updates? Will it brik, or unroot? Jan 28 01:25:43 i try to not read indiegogo comments Jan 28 01:47:18 ok found this https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=36052 about the fw update Jan 28 01:50:44 i think i'll wait until planet delivers the guide **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 28 02:59:57 2020