**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 30 03:00:00 2020 Mar 30 06:33:21 Hm. Since the initial problems with the finger print sensor, everything worked as it should with the v20 firmware. I don't use GPay, but Netflix works. So that means I don't have to install v21, right? Mar 30 07:04:41 I guess that, as I have removed most permissions from the Play Services, stuff like GPay wouldn't have worked, anyway. The question is only: Should I ever want/need that stuff, will I have to go back to v21? Will future OTA updates work if I don't go to v21? Mar 30 07:13:45 *blinks* Mar 30 07:14:20 astro announced https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer#/ Mar 30 08:02:53 still waiting to get my cosmo.. Mar 30 08:33:12 cos-: that sucks Mar 30 08:39:54 Planet Confuses me Mar 30 08:40:19 they've announced *another* crowdfunded smartphone Mar 30 08:40:25 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer Mar 30 08:41:48 well, I skipped the previous one, so might just as well go with that 🙄 (and I did) Mar 30 08:43:03 now they're claiming a *48* megapixel camera 🤣 Mar 30 08:43:16 how many still haven't received their cosmos I wonder Mar 30 08:43:53 dTal: do you think they won't have that? I mean likely the optics sucks, but receptor-wise it's probably true. Mar 30 08:44:14 they claimed 24 on the cosmo which is basically a total lie Mar 30 08:44:39 it's essentially 6MP + software in the driver Mar 30 08:44:52 that's why you can't get RAWs out of the thing, it would expose the lie Mar 30 08:45:10 48 is preposterous Mar 30 08:50:00 Didn't the megapixel wars end a decade ago? Mar 30 09:34:19 I am wondering if I really can recommend a relative to buy a Cosmo … my main point being the lack of software development resources / dedication … what's the current feeling about this with the current updates to get Cosmo in shape? Mar 30 09:34:55 I myself am dismayed by my Gemini (one of the earliest models with x25) still being on Dec 2018 security patch level. Mar 30 09:40:29 Yeah that's not good. You can only assume with the new one coming out the Cosmo will also get left behind. Mar 30 09:42:52 I'm so torn. There's nothing to match hardware, wise … and they're open as they can with Mediatek stuff. But fully-working alternative Firmware doesn't materialize just like that. Mar 30 09:43:13 I hoped for Sailfish, but I need to be able to run the Signal app, and that's Android-only:-/ Mar 30 09:44:18 Is there a way we can make Planet aware of how important it is to ensure that all their 3 devices get at least regular security updates? Even Android 7.x would be OK for Gemini, if it would be the current patchlevel. Mar 30 09:45:05 * sobukus also really would like to know why it's impossible for Sailfish on Gemini to include the Android compat layer Mar 30 09:48:29 my fear is that Planet is settling into a profitable routine of releasing new devices and failing to support the old ones Mar 30 09:48:47 they've opted for crowfunding yet again Mar 30 09:51:04 I don't think they're big enough as a company to offer full support. Mar 30 09:51:51 Haning bought the Geminiu and the Cosmo I'll give the new one a miss due to that. Mar 30 09:55:24 Yes, crowdfunding again is a bit strange. So they barely can make the toys. Mar 30 09:55:55 Well, in fact that would be fine if we had just a handful of people (heck, even one?!) doing a LineageOS build for it. Mar 30 09:56:02 For me, at least. Mar 30 10:15:23 I carnally desire the Astro slide out. This is the very worst possible time for me. I have to count every cent and I already bought both the Gemini and the Cosmo. Also, I hate to say this but the chances are good that Planet will not survive the economic crisis. Mar 30 10:17:03 Smaller companies will struggle for the next few years. In the best of times Planet will take a year or two to make a new device. What is going to happen when the entire world is doing the death rattle. Mar 30 10:20:08 Well, that's exactly why they had to start the new campaign right now. Support for old devices is not going to generate any revenue. ;) Mar 30 10:20:47 But we don't have to buy them. I also really want the Astro. But it's like going out and meeting new people right now. ;) Mar 30 10:20:53 I wish sailfish would catch up more and offer android support on more phones, I'm still getting updates for my ancient Jolla phone. Mar 30 10:22:03 cos-: Interesting. I still do have one of those, too (used to have the Other Half Keyboard, my first crowdfunding thingie). Mar 30 10:22:53 TOHKBD owner here also.. but to be honest, it was quite lousy quality. Idea was good. Mar 30 10:23:28 They keyboard broke after some time. Also the phone had crappy camera and I remember the anroid support being bad (some crashing regarding the notification of Signal background stuff). Mar 30 10:23:58 I wanted another slide out since Google G1/HTC Dream days, and the Desire Z dammit! Mar 30 10:24:34 Yeah, I'd actually be in the position to go in on the Astro, expecting it to be usable in 2 years … as I didn't shell out for the Cosmo. Mar 30 10:24:45 Both slide out mechanisms work to this day, but the keyboard on the Gemini/Cosmo is *sooo* much better. Mar 30 10:25:11 But I'd expect the Gemini to still be working in 2 years (if I repaired the broken battery cable:-/). But maybe not as smartphone anymore. Mar 30 10:25:57 I also imagine that the slider could be more robust compared to the gemini hinge that dissolves itself (the metal casing). Mar 30 10:26:13 Anyone here can comment on how they made the hinge more sturdy for the Cosmo? Mar 30 10:26:17 Also the astro could have a working compass. Mar 30 10:26:56 TauPan: Sure there are no magnets involed, there, too? Mar 30 10:27:17 No, not sure. Mar 30 10:27:32 The Desire Z and the Dream have now magnets. Mar 30 10:27:45 No idea why / if magnets would be needed. Mar 30 10:28:01 Also, you could have working compass … just adjust for that fixed field in the devices. Mar 30 10:28:37 *no magnets, even Mar 30 10:28:58 The slider mechanism seems to be rather stealthy. Is there even some kind of rail? Mar 30 10:29:43 They could go for magnets to keep it closed, if there's no mechanical means to resist accidental push. Mar 30 11:14:44 Ok, if you look at the second video, you'll see a quick and dirty prototype of the mechanism. Mar 30 11:16:56 And I just had to back it... My strongest reason is that I want to support the only company that makes portable devices with these kinds of keyboards. And doing a slider is the right choice. Mar 30 11:18:52 Yeah I backed it, too Mar 30 11:19:07 What the hell, as long as they keep operating I want to see new and interesting things Mar 30 11:20:58 Yeah, what the hell ;) Mar 30 11:24:22 that astro is still too wide :( 16.4 cm Mar 30 11:25:11 Whats that in medieval units Mar 30 11:25:34 ah, 6.4 Inch Mar 30 11:25:38 meh, not bad Mar 30 11:37:58 akik: Hard to have the proper keyboard with less width. Mar 30 11:38:58 that's just it, i don't need a proper keyboard Mar 30 11:40:14 htc desire z, samsung captivate glide, motorola droid 4 i've used them all Mar 30 11:40:20 No reason to go for planet co devices in that case. Mar 30 11:40:45 like there's so many other choices... Mar 30 11:41:15 i need a qwerty keyboard Mar 30 12:03:07 xperia mini pro, best keyboard phone form factor ever Mar 30 12:03:21 but it is nice to be able to touch type on the Cosmo Mar 30 12:03:32 not for everyone, but for me it's worth lugging around the brock Mar 30 12:03:41 *brick Mar 30 12:04:01 mini pro was the other end of the scale, excellent thumb keyboard and palmable Mar 30 12:33:05 Yeah, for just messaging, the Tro 650 keyboard worked fine, too. Mar 30 13:03:51 Treo Mar 30 13:12:03 So, they got the Astro financed in 4 yours or so. But I wonder how 11 early birds are still open with 539 backers. Mar 30 13:16:34 sobukus: they are probably allowing more backers than the initial 500 ones Mar 30 13:17:02 Anyone with a Cosmo (or late Gemini) can confirm that they improved on the space bar? Mine's not only hard to hit right, it's falling out:-/ Mar 30 13:20:08 sorry to hear that... I don't know if my Gemini was one of the later ones, but I don't have any issue with the space bar Mar 30 13:20:36 did you change the keyboard mat? Mar 30 13:25:58 VartiWork: Yes, they sent me a new one, and it does work better. The space bar needing the right spot to hit is a construction issue, the falling out, well, I guess, too;-) Mar 30 13:26:29 did you take the spacebar out and put it back in? That got my spacebar and Esc to remain loose. Mar 30 13:27:23 I did that after I had the kbd beyond hope for other reasons. Found a report that someone else had the same issue with the Esc key Mar 30 13:28:06 I had trouble with a cursor key not staying put, I got a replacement for that and it's fine since then. Mar 30 13:28:10 I have never taken any of the keys out, if that helps Mar 30 13:29:00 The space bar … well, it's still connected to the metal hinge, but I do wonder what normally makes it not swivel out. Mar 30 13:29:06 yeah. so it's 'wear and tear' of the keys. I guess. Mar 30 13:30:03 our of interest, how do you actually take the keys off? Will a normal mechanical key puller tool do it? Mar 30 13:30:27 At least a revised keyboard should use 2 active buttons/contact points underneath instead of just a central one. Mar 30 13:31:06 Yeah, they just come loose after a bit of prying. But I think it was important to approach them from a specific side to reduce damage. Mar 30 13:31:12 top? Mar 30 13:32:24 Yeah, it's not much force. Just a bit of plastic that slots into an x-shaped hole. Little thickening on the plastic avoids accidental jumping out. Mar 30 13:32:42 ahh so its like a normal cherry switch? thats cool Mar 30 13:32:44 I actually got me an old Psion 5 to compare the construction. Mar 30 13:34:15 The construction is a bit more elaborate there. Not just and x hole, but one leg of that has a cut providing a bit of spring force to the knub to avoid falling out. Mar 30 13:34:53 Makes quite a difference in feel … the Psion keyboard needs more force to press but feels more robust. Mar 30 13:35:42 thats cool Mar 30 13:36:37 If they made the Astro a bit thicker and run from AA batteries, it'd be a true heir to the Psion 5;-) Mar 30 13:37:29 hehe, wonder how many AA's you'd need to power a modern phone for a full day Mar 30 13:53:37 That screen sliding mechanism is the tits Mar 30 13:53:54 Nice demo on the starter site Mar 30 13:56:27 (There once was a video of some mad people powering an actual train engine with lots of AA batteries. (Don't try this at home, obviously.) Can't find it any more.) Mar 30 13:56:48 (Might have been larger batteries though...) Mar 30 14:41:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-PBPxN8Sv0 ← no mentioning of magnets, or anything, for that matter Mar 30 14:43:39 Regarding batteries … you could use some of those magic chinese ones on eBay X-Dragon Powerbank with 500000 mAh for 22 € … Mar 30 14:43:49 If that's for real, I'll take a train of them. Mar 30 21:56:26 hi, is anybody having problems opening oesf.org? Works fine here, but someone has told me that he's having issues accessing it Mar 30 22:15:21 Varti: i had a problem using it through ipv6 Mar 30 22:16:14 it said "Could not determine your IP address" Mar 30 22:27:43 ok, thanks for confirming it... I'd live to know if this happens on an ipv4 connection too Mar 30 22:32:01 it has that problem still on ipv6 Mar 30 22:32:18 i have a ipv6 tunnel through tunnelbroker.net Mar 30 22:32:46 so i can turn it off at will **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 31 02:59:57 2020