**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 01 02:59:58 2008
Dec 01 13:28:45 <sceners_n00b> hey folks
Dec 01 13:28:48 <sceners_n00b> oops
Dec 01 13:28:57 <msd2000> crazy website
Dec 01 13:29:10 <msd2000> i read a nice piece of stuff on bootloading on dimitris blog
Dec 01 13:29:14 <msd2000> The current bootloader is a hack on top of the PalmPowerups bootloader as used in PowerDrive. Booting while holding down the [home] key enters it, and it waits for a FAT32-formatted card [FAT12 and 16 NOT supported] card to be inserted containing a file called "kernel" in its root folder.
Dec 01 13:29:34 <msd2000> The reason for lack of support for FAT12 and FAT16 is that the bootloader is NOT using my FAT driver, but in fact another one, under BSD license, which only supports FAT32 (and barely so).
Dec 01 13:29:49 <msd2000> that would be easy dual boot for us palm/linux users!
Dec 01 14:00:09 <Sleep_Walker> do you have some link?
Dec 01 14:10:41 <msd2000> http://dgosblog.blogspot.com/
Dec 01 14:11:12 <msd2000> pen ultimate news item..!
Dec 01 16:30:48 <msd2000> kinda need huh Sleepwalker?
Dec 01 16:31:03 <Sleep_Walker> ?
Dec 01 16:31:17 * Sleep_Walker is not interested in commercial stuff for PDA
Dec 01 16:31:47 <msd2000> Miska your TX kernel packages are missing on your test page!
Dec 01 16:33:42 <msd2000> the bootloader
Dec 01 16:33:50 <msd2000> with holding down the home button
Dec 01 16:33:55 <msd2000> I sent the url!
Dec 01 16:35:16 <msd2000> its in the dgosblog by dimitri
Dec 01 16:35:34 <Sleep_Walker> I read that
Dec 01 16:36:09 <msd2000> wouldnt that be need for us?
Dec 01 16:36:15 <msd2000> need=neat :D
Dec 01 16:36:27 <msd2000> so funny when i write english phoneticly haha
Dec 01 16:36:28 <Sleep_Walker> and would it be available for us?
Dec 01 16:36:45 <msd2000> he writes its a bootloader from
Dec 01 16:37:05 <msd2000> under BSD license
Dec 01 16:37:25 <msd2000> i would figure if it is for him its also for you guys :S?
Dec 01 16:37:33 <msd2000> dont think he would pay for it?
Dec 01 16:37:55 <msd2000> its a nice idea anyway
Dec 01 16:37:59 <msd2000> gotta go!
Dec 01 16:38:02 <msd2000> cheers
Dec 01 16:38:08 <Sleep_Walker> ...
Dec 01 16:38:31 <Sleep_Walker> why would Dmitry do something useful for free? :)
Dec 01 17:08:52 <marex> Sleep_Walker, it's our beloved shi...errr dmitry
Dec 01 20:21:33 <_hc> so I am trying to make a number of OE images that are .ext2 files that I can just drop onto a FAT16 SD card.  I noticed that some of the devices/images listed in the hnd downloads page are setup to do this, and others need an ext2 partition.  Is this a funtcion of how the kernel is compiled?  Could I change this in cocoboot.conf or linux.boot.cfg without changing the kernel images?
Dec 01 20:26:38 <_hc> raster: is it possible to make your palmt650 kernel boot your .ext2 image file directly without being written to a partition?
Dec 01 21:24:26 <raster> _hc: it is - that is the default actually - but its SLOOOW
Dec 01 21:24:44 <_hc> yeah, it is, but it is so easy
Dec 01 21:24:52 <raster> ie a .ext image on a fat partition drops to about 30% of the IO speed
Dec 01 21:25:02 <raster> the performance impact is huge
Dec 01 21:25:14 <_hc> I want to get people booting linux as fast as possible so that they get hooked
Dec 01 21:25:19 <raster> its so easy as a partion
Dec 01 21:25:36 <raster> instead of cp image.ext2 /media/blah/
Dec 01 21:25:40 <_hc> hmm, not as easy an unzipping a single zip file onto any old card, then booting
Dec 01 21:25:46 <raster> it's cat ext2 > /dev/sde2
Dec 01 21:25:52 <_hc> then once people are hooked, they can partition cards
Dec 01 21:26:05 <raster> just as easy
Dec 01 21:26:09 <raster> cat it to the device
Dec 01 21:26:27 <_hc> I want to get peopling booting linux who fear "cat ext2 > /dev/sde2" :D
Dec 01 21:26:47 <raster> well you can do it
Dec 01 21:27:00 <_hc> I am going to try right now, I just got this 650 booting from the partition
Dec 01 21:27:00 <raster> u'll have to change the cocoboot config (linux boot params)
Dec 01 21:27:03 <raster> but it can work
Dec 01 21:27:08 <_hc> ok, cool
Dec 01 21:27:09 <_hc> I know how to do that
Dec 01 21:27:11 <raster> but i highly do not recommend it
Dec 01 21:27:40 <raster> the performance was so bad that i instantly changed and re-partitioned my card
Dec 01 21:27:50 <raster> and it was more painful having to change the setup
Dec 01 21:27:56 <raster> than if i'd just started that way
Dec 01 21:27:57 <_hc> what about jffs2?
Dec 01 21:28:05 <raster> just wrap it in a script
Dec 01 21:28:14 <raster> jffs2 is only for mtd devices
Dec 01 21:28:18 <_hc> that works on Windows, Mac and linux?
Dec 01 21:28:22 <_hc> that's a tricky script
Dec 01 21:28:31 <raster> mac and windows
Dec 01 21:28:40 <raster> ... let's be realistic
Dec 01 21:28:41 <raster> yu
Dec 01 21:28:53 <raster> you're hacking linux onto a device never intended for it./..
Dec 01 21:28:58 <raster> why are you using win/mac?
Dec 01 21:29:10 <_hc> I aim to make this the gateway drug
Dec 01 21:29:21 <raster> if you are u likely are not knowledgeable enouhg with linux to be doing this
Dec 01 21:29:25 <_hc> you can get old palms for free, so people won't fear messing them up
Dec 01 21:29:54 <_hc> here's our first newbie howto: http://vimeo.com/2397102
Dec 01 21:30:25 <raster> it may be wasy for non-linux people
Dec 01 21:30:30 <raster> but the performance is atrocious
Dec 01 21:30:44 <raster> so your first introduction to linux on a plam is "man this shit sucks"
Dec 01 21:30:50 <raster> thats a pretty bad first impression
Dec 01 21:30:57 <raster> and first impressions count
Dec 01 21:31:00 <_hc> so far, people have enjoyed what we have made
Dec 01 21:31:17 <_hc> we are not turning them into PDAs, but into a programming platform for hacking around
Dec 01 21:32:46 <raster> as i said
Dec 01 21:32:48 <raster> its possible
Dec 01 21:33:00 <raster> in fact thats the default that you are first told to do
Dec 01 21:33:17 <raster> (use a ext2 image file on a fat formatted device)
Dec 01 21:33:24 <raster> but it was awful
Dec 01 21:33:48 <_hc> raster: have you messed with the  Treo 600 or 680 at all?
Dec 01 21:33:55 <raster> no
Dec 01 21:33:57 <raster> dont have one
Dec 01 21:33:59 <raster> got a 650
Dec 01 21:46:49 <_hc> raster: so illume looks quite nice, but there seems to be almost no apps on your image.  Are there more apps for illume that can be installed?
Dec 01 21:47:28 <_hc> oh yeah, can you poweroff or reboot the 650 from linux? I've been using "poweroff" from the command line, then the reset button
Dec 01 21:54:49 <raster> its just an oe image
Dec 01 21:55:01 <raster> i just didnt go fill it with tonens of apps as thats not my goal
Dec 01 21:55:07 <raster> my goal is for testing/developing e
Dec 01 21:55:14 <raster> so i need just enouhg apps to make sure it works
Dec 01 21:55:19 <_hc> ah, ok, what's a good demo app for e?
Dec 01 21:55:26 <raster> e is a wm
Dec 01 21:55:31 <_hc> I know
Dec 01 21:55:35 <raster> so apps are irrelevant to it beyond managging them
Dec 01 21:55:36 <raster> :)
Dec 01 21:55:41 <_hc> I am looking for a good demo app for e on the 650
Dec 01 21:55:46 <raster> dunno
Dec 01 21:55:48 <univac_> xterm
Dec 01 21:55:51 <raster> i dont run/use many apps
Dec 01 21:55:54 <raster> yeah
Dec 01 21:55:54 <raster> xterm
Dec 01 21:55:55 <raster> :)\
Dec 01 21:55:57 <univac_> ;]
Dec 01 21:56:02 <raster> good enough
Dec 01 21:56:09 <_hc> ok, well, why bother with e then?
Dec 01 21:56:14 <_hc> bare X11 should be enough
Dec 01 21:56:16 <raster> well it does come with an alarm app i wrote
Dec 01 21:56:17 <_hc> for xterm
Dec 01 21:56:22 <_hc> looks nice
Dec 01 21:56:23 <raster> that tests the widget set
Dec 01 21:56:30 <raster> newer stuff i build has the elementary_test app
Dec 01 21:56:34 <raster> that tests widgets
Dec 01 21:56:52 <raster> i just wanted a small image
Dec 01 21:57:09 <raster> its up to you to do your thing
Dec 01 21:57:13 <raster> eg build your own images with OE
Dec 01 21:57:18 <raster> you choose your favorite wm
Dec 01 21:57:22 <raster> one that works for you
Dec 01 21:57:25 <_hc> yup, I have them built, just need to get them booting ;)
Dec 01 21:57:29 <raster> but right now i am not worrying about apps
Dec 01 23:31:15 <_hc> raster: so I tried my own image, but it is not finding it
Dec 01 23:31:42 <_hc> what do I need to set in cocoboot for the kernel cmdline?
Dec 01 23:32:42 <_hc> I've tried:
Dec 01 23:32:44 <_hc> cmdline = mem=32M
Dec 01 23:32:48 <_hc> cmdline = init=/linuxrc root=/dev/ram0 mem=32M
Dec 01 23:39:09 * flyback is so worn out by life at 34, he will never make it to 40
Dec 01 23:40:00 <_hc> flyback: I'm 35 and feeling pretty good, so perhaps you'll rebound
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 02 02:59:57 2008