**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 11 02:59:56 2009
Nov 11 03:12:22 <tmzt> blackberry is java, at least it was in os 4.1
Nov 11 03:12:35 <tmzt> it was compiled to native code in something called .cod
Nov 11 03:12:42 <tmzt> which is prevarified and signed
Nov 11 03:13:57 <raster> aaah opk
Nov 11 03:14:06 <raster> but thats for 3rd party apps
Nov 11 03:14:07 <raster> right?
Nov 11 03:14:14 <raster> for bb's own
Nov 11 03:14:21 <raster> (eg their launcher, mzil app etc.)
Nov 11 03:14:24 <raster> they are all java too?
Nov 11 03:14:25 <tmzt> not sure, in the past most of everything was java
Nov 11 03:14:30 <tmzt> not sure about the launcher
Nov 11 03:14:46 <tmzt> I know they bought torchmobile recently for a better browser
Nov 11 03:15:45 <raster> either way. matters little to me
Nov 11 03:15:49 <raster> bb is dwindling
Nov 11 03:15:55 <raster> theey have an outdated os core
Nov 11 03:16:05 <raster> and nothing exciting on the horizon
Nov 11 03:16:14 <raster> they;'re worth ignoring - much like symbian
Nov 11 03:16:22 <raster> winmo is on the way down too
Nov 11 03:16:28 <raster> unlikely to go away - but just diminish
Nov 11 03:16:40 <raster> probably settles to 15-20% of the markety
Nov 11 03:17:05 <raster> android i dont think is going to be the be-all-and-end-all winner
Nov 11 03:17:11 <raster> its gopign to maybe top out at 20%
Nov 11 03:17:15 <raster> iphone maybe 20%
Nov 11 03:18:30 <raster> i thnik the battle for the rest will be the "real linux" phones
Nov 11 03:18:36 <raster> ala maemo etc.
Nov 11 03:18:41 <raster> limo
Nov 11 03:18:43 <raster> ...
Nov 11 03:18:59 <raster> (ie linux kernel, glibc, x11, etc.)
Nov 11 03:35:15 <tmzt> on the pc I expect 50/30/20
Nov 11 03:35:29 <tmzt> on mobile not sure
Nov 11 03:35:54 <tmzt> but limo technology only matters if it's marketed as an open device
Nov 11 03:36:35 <tmzt> if it's the next feature touchphone os with linux core it doesn't really matter
Nov 11 03:38:10 <tmzt> for all the tech marketing around droid and positioning against iPhone they aren't being very opn about kernel flashing and other things that appeal to that target market
Nov 11 03:39:06 <tmzt> blackberry was killed by ms opening push to all exchange whatever users
Nov 11 03:40:46 <tmzt> if google or apple push down a good enough calendar server or servicce to coorporate it could change again
Nov 11 03:41:03 <tmzt> depending on the sticking power of exchange
Nov 11 03:41:57 <tmzt> like, wave federation with a client api
Nov 11 03:43:05 <raster> sorry - ummm (was away)
Nov 11 03:43:15 <raster> limo exposes api's via dbus
Nov 11 03:43:18 <raster> for telephony anyway
Nov 11 03:43:42 <raster> limo itself is just a core of apis and systems
Nov 11 03:43:46 <raster> 'its not a whole os/phone
Nov 11 03:43:54 <raster> its up to each vendor to decide what to do
Nov 11 03:44:03 <raster> as such - i WANT an open phone
Nov 11 03:44:08 <raster> i'm mor pragmatic than most
Nov 11 03:44:16 <raster> ie - i know u'll end up with binary blobs
Nov 11 03:44:24 <raster> eg wifi firmware blobs needing uploads to the wifi hw
Nov 11 03:44:33 <tmzt> than most?
Nov 11 03:44:51 <raster> possibly telephony interface will be exposes as an api b ut have a binary blob
Nov 11 03:44:58 <raster> well than most around these parts
Nov 11 03:45:00 <tmzt> huhn limo the foundation with it's members
Nov 11 03:45:04 <raster> (linux, irc)
Nov 11 03:45:13 <tmzt> I see
Nov 11 03:45:42 <raster> an open phone - not like iphone
Nov 11 03:45:42 <tmzt> that's the limo architecture
Nov 11 03:45:46 <raster> one where u can replace contacts,
Nov 11 03:45:47 <raster> launcher
Nov 11 03:45:50 <raster> wm, dialler
Nov 11 03:45:55 <raster> pretty much any part you want\
Nov 11 03:46:06 <tmzt> you can do that in android actually
Nov 11 03:46:11 <raster> given the time and effort, with no lock-ins on "just trinket 3rd party apps/games - no changing core"
Nov 11 03:46:24 <raster> - i see this as a key to success
Nov 11 03:46:44 <tmzt> it's not interesting without source for the shipped versions
Nov 11 03:46:44 <raster> repeating the iphone model wont work outside apple
Nov 11 03:47:05 <raster> i know *I* would live with nothing less than this "pragmatically" open phone
Nov 11 03:47:10 <raster> i'd prefer is more of it was open
Nov 11 03:47:15 <raster> eg GLES driver/libs
Nov 11 03:47:22 <raster> telephony back-end etc. etc.
Nov 11 03:48:51 <raster> well i can say - there is no desire to open their own apps
Nov 11 03:48:55 <raster> eg their own contactrs
Nov 11 03:49:02 <raster> it's theirs and part of their look & feel
Nov 11 03:49:08 <raster> not to mention general design
Nov 11 03:49:14 <raster> BUT
Nov 11 03:49:24 <raster> there is happiness in being able to make it possible to plug in and replace
Nov 11 03:49:30 <raster> well so it seems
Nov 11 03:50:33 <cmonex> android is not open, for fuckssake
Nov 11 03:50:38 <cmonex> funny naming really =)
Nov 11 03:50:59 <cmonex> it'd be open if google let us just install anything without having to use exploits
Nov 11 03:51:21 <raster> android is just bizarre
Nov 11 03:51:34 <raster> but its not really google
Nov 11 03:51:37 <raster> its the handset makets
Nov 11 03:51:42 <raster> they lock it down
Nov 11 03:51:47 <raster> eg with signed bootloaders
Nov 11 03:53:08 <raster> either way. i just dont like android :)
Nov 11 04:50:31 <Lubimez> where get patch linux for tungsten c (rootfs,initfs, etc)?
Nov 11 04:58:02 <tmzt> hackndev.com probably
Nov 11 04:59:16 <tmzt> not sure if that device is supported though
Nov 11 05:01:34 <Lubimez> Marex said...
Nov 11 05:01:38 <Lubimez> That's good to hear. You can visit us on IRC (irc.freenode.net #hackndev). I have an installer prepared, but sadly it still has a few weaker points.
Nov 11 16:02:39 <cmonex> [04:51:34] <raster> but its not really google
Nov 11 16:02:48 <cmonex> well google is who patches the exploits...
Nov 11 16:02:53 <cmonex> so you cant root anymore lol
Nov 11 16:03:14 <cmonex> i.e. why not have root, geez
Nov 11 16:03:16 <cmonex> :)
Nov 11 16:03:29 <cmonex> I wasnt talking about signed bootloads
Nov 11 19:49:24 <tmzt> cmonex: kernel exploits, privlgege escalation
Nov 11 19:50:55 <cmonex> hum?
Nov 11 19:52:33 <tmzt> essentially they used an exploit to gain root on Hero, searching for a root process and taking it over
Nov 11 20:26:18 <tmzt> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheBoyGeniusReport/~3/ahWkvXwFp2w/
Nov 11 20:26:41 <tmzt> Nokia puts all their effort into manufacturing and gets beaten by Apple with one ODMd device
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 12 02:59:57 2009