**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 15 03:00:01 2017
Nov 15 04:16:41 <greguu> ant_work : It seems in 3.x and 4.x kernels pata_pcmcia.c is used. At least this was the case with 3.10.y and 4.12
Nov 15 04:40:34 <greguu> I would also recommend to post known working cards and focus on recommending these. Sandisk a example. We can not support all sorts of random cards out there I guess. Also the trick for the users is to get the device ID. You will need lspcmcia or pccardctrl and also follow the instructions in /Documentation/pcmcia/devicetable.txt to get the hash
Nov 15 04:40:48 <greguu> in my case I had to:
Nov 15 04:40:55 <greguu> cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/1.0/card_id
Nov 15 04:40:59 <greguu>  cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/1.0/manf_id
Nov 15 04:41:03 <greguu>  cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/1.0/modalias
Nov 15 04:41:18 <greguu> then extract the hex values out of the sting
Nov 15 04:56:35 * greguu just realized the vendor ID hash in 4.12 was wrong. It still works however. Need to fix in next release.
Nov 15 05:08:01 <greguu> or use the crc32hash from /tools/pcmcia
Nov 15 05:17:07 <greguu> also to allow a unsupported card temporarily , use "echo -n 1 > /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/0.0/allow_func_id_match"
Nov 15 05:17:36 <greguu> */0.0/ or /1.0/ depending on the CF slot
Nov 15 08:29:56 <VartiWork> morning
Nov 15 08:31:09 <greguu> it is quite late here you know
Nov 15 08:31:21 <VartiWork> hehe
Nov 15 08:31:33 <VartiWork> woke up late today :P
Nov 15 08:32:45 <VartiWork> I'll open a new thread about the CF cards, but first I'd like to ask a couple of things
Nov 15 08:32:52 <greguu> sure thing
Nov 15 08:33:59 <VartiWork> why is it required to keep a database of the CF cards? I have never had any problem in recognising my 1GB one, is this a requirement for newer cards?
Nov 15 08:34:15 <VartiWork> (newbie questions alert)
Nov 15 08:36:00 <greguu> the kernel does use vendor ID's to recognise cards. if the card is not listed in pata_pcmcia.c or ide-cs.c then it will not accept the card
Nov 15 08:36:31 <greguu> it has nothing to do with the _size_ of the card
Nov 15 08:37:25 <greguu> there is a way to make the kernel accept an unknown card via "echo -n 1 > /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/0.0/allow_func_id_match"
Nov 15 08:37:43 <greguu> but to get this upstream we need all the details
Nov 15 08:38:30 <greguu> if a user has a card that is not recognised, we need the output of "pccardctl info"
Nov 15 08:39:43 <greguu> or
Nov 15 08:39:50 <greguu> cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/1.0/card_id
Nov 15 08:39:54 <greguu> cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/1.0/manf_id
Nov 15 08:39:59 <greguu> cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/1.0/manf_id
Nov 15 08:40:17 <greguu> if pccardctl is not available
Nov 15 08:41:43 <greguu> *note : pccardctl is available on the ALARM rootfs or can be fetched from a OESF forum post
Nov 15 08:42:41 <greguu> sorry and "cat /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/1.0/modalias"
Nov 15 08:43:55 <greguu> *note : the C3x00 series have two CF slots , 0.0 and 1.0
Nov 15 08:45:05 * greguu hopes this make sense
Nov 15 08:45:22 <VartiWork> so, there's no automatic way to recognise a card anyway
Nov 15 08:46:08 <greguu> this affects CF cards currently not listed in the kernel. In my case it was a very common SANDISK 8GB CF card...
Nov 15 08:46:24 <VartiWork> are the lists in pata_pcmcia.c and ide-cs.c not maintained by anyone?
Nov 15 08:47:21 <VartiWork> I guess CF cards under Linux are very rarely used nowadays
Nov 15 08:47:29 <greguu> well, it does not seem so, CF cards are not that popular anymore. Some popular vendor ID's are listed, but you may come a cross a new one
Nov 15 08:47:31 <greguu> yes
Nov 15 08:47:48 <VartiWork> only maybe some vendors might update the list by themselves, without sharing it
Nov 15 08:48:31 <greguu> we are talking linux only now, so I am not sure this is pushed upstream by the vendor
Nov 15 08:48:51 <greguu> it is up to us to make kernel dev aware of the need
Nov 15 08:49:44 <VartiWork> there might be still some reflex cameras with CF slots running Linux, on sale
Nov 15 08:50:11 <greguu> well, these are running custom kernels, patched to suit
Nov 15 08:52:00 <greguu> also you can accept any card, using a kernel hack
Nov 15 08:52:09 <greguu> "echo -n 1 > /sys/bus/pcmcia/devices/0.0/allow_func_id_match"
Nov 15 08:52:52 <VartiWork> ok
Nov 15 08:52:58 <greguu> I think it is not such a big deal, but we could gather vendor ID's and submit upstream. At least I have one to submit
Nov 15 08:55:08 <greguu> VartiWork : what is the state of the OESF wiki ? this would be a good place to put this info
Nov 15 08:55:47 <VartiWork> still waiting for the php upgrade on the server
Nov 15 08:56:15 <VartiWork> yes, I'd also put this on the wiki
Nov 15 08:56:47 <VartiWork> I'll bump the thread on ibiblio
Nov 15 08:57:04 <greguu> yeah, push them!
Nov 15 08:57:40 <VartiWork> in the meawhile, I have opened a new test account on a free server, this morning I'll try to merge the oesf forum database there
Nov 15 08:57:50 <VartiWork> for the forum only
Nov 15 08:58:18 <VartiWork> myBB and Simple Machines Forums are the new forum candidates, I'll try them both
Nov 15 08:58:35 <greguu> server : what DB ? MySQL, MariaDB ? PHP 5 or 7
Nov 15 08:59:27 <VartiWork> MariaDB, the version we have is recent enough
Nov 15 08:59:33 <greguu> ok
Nov 15 09:01:33 <VartiWork> PHP is the only culprit, we need at least the v. 5.5.9, we have v. 5.3.28 now
Nov 15 09:02:21 <greguu> hm, a bit behind it seems. have you tried with the outdated version ?
Nov 15 09:02:59 <greguu> php 5 was pretty compatible between version ...
Nov 15 09:04:58 <VartiWork> no, haven't tried, most probably there will be a check in the installer, I might remove it, but then I don't want to risk to have an unstable wiki...
Nov 15 09:05:28 <greguu> make sure someone takes a snapshot of the server before you try
Nov 15 09:06:04 <VartiWork> I have now installed a IPBoard like theme for myBB, it looks nice and very similar to the one used on OESF... too bad that no pull down menu work heh
Nov 15 09:06:39 <VartiWork> I have already backuped both the files and the database, I do that from time to time
Nov 15 09:06:46 <greguu> why ? myBB to old ?
Nov 15 09:07:24 <VartiWork> the theme is too old, was compatible only with an older version of myBB
Nov 15 09:07:29 <VartiWork> I'll try now another theme
Nov 15 09:07:51 <VartiWork> btw if you a curious: http://oesf-mybb.epizy.com/index.php
Nov 15 09:08:35 <greguu> looks great
Nov 15 09:09:05 * greguu hopes VartiWork will get the theme to work
Nov 15 09:09:10 <greguu> :)
Nov 15 09:09:32 <VartiWork> I don't like the colors anyway
Nov 15 09:09:45 <greguu> the current ones ?
Nov 15 09:10:05 <VartiWork> no, the ones on the new forum
Nov 15 09:10:30 <greguu> easy gray tones, not too bad
Nov 15 09:10:47 <VartiWork> the ones on oesf are more easy on the eye IMHO
Nov 15 09:11:29 <VartiWork> I'll anyway post and let everyone decide what they like once everything will be setup
Nov 15 09:11:38 <greguu> hm. I think we need a new logo for OESF first, then choose the colour scheme
Nov 15 09:11:53 <greguu> based on the logo
Nov 15 09:12:19 <greguu> this reminds me, what about the OSEF copyright / trade mark thing
Nov 15 09:12:40 <greguu> is OpenZaurus free again ?
Nov 15 09:14:42 <greguu> If not we could do a LibreZaurus or FreeZaurus ?
Nov 15 09:15:03 <greguu> I would prefer the OpenZaurus ..
Nov 15 09:15:41 <greguu> the LibreZaurus sounds not too bad though
Nov 15 09:21:37 <greguu> the forum is good as OESF I think, but the OpenZaurus was good name for a Distro..
Nov 15 09:22:34 <VartiWork> we can change the theme later if required, I'd give the priority to the new forum first... our forum now has a low malware protection, we might already have new malwares which I haven't found yet
Nov 15 09:22:47 <VartiWork> yes, the logo should be changed too
Nov 15 09:24:00 <VartiWork> well, we are focusing on newer devices too, so I don't know if putting "Zaurus" back on the forum's name would be a good idea
Nov 15 09:24:36 <greguu> what is the current "malware protection" ? clamav ?
Nov 15 09:25:03 <greguu> true,the name OpenZaurus would be more for distro then the forum
Nov 15 09:25:07 <VartiWork> I'm not getting my Gemini yet (waiting to get enough funds), but you can bet I'll be flooding the board with posts and wiki entries once I'll get one :)
Nov 15 09:25:38 <greguu> I am not impressed with these devices so far
Nov 15 09:26:06 <greguu> these use "cheap" smarphone displays that need to be roated
Nov 15 09:26:18 <greguu> same design flaw the zaurus had
Nov 15 09:26:44 <VartiWork> the only malware protection we have is the forum's in-built one, unless ibiblio uses one too, but I don't know how to check this
Nov 15 09:27:31 <VartiWork> indeed... at least the burden for the rotation won't be as heavy as on the Zaurus
Nov 15 09:28:31 <greguu> *if the hardware rotation is supported by an opensource driver
Nov 15 09:28:50 <greguu> as far as I could research, most still used FBDEV
Nov 15 09:29:11 <greguu> thus, software rotation
Nov 15 09:29:39 <VartiWork> urk
Nov 15 09:30:17 <VartiWork> this would be an interesting question to raise to the Gemini devs
Nov 15 09:30:48 <greguu> there may be a hardware driver support with intel, but not so sure
Nov 15 09:30:58 <greguu> I guess if I had one I would find out soon
Nov 15 09:34:32 <greguu> well for the GPF win etc this was the case, I would be surprised if the GEMINI is differnet. Smart phone LCD's are cheap but require hardware rotation
Nov 15 09:34:59 <greguu> GPF / GPD
Nov 15 09:36:30 <VartiWork> in Gemini's case both Linux and Android is their priority, I hope that they have considered this problem
Nov 15 09:37:24 <greguu> Android does use closed source drivers. It is based on Linux but does not ensure these drivers are open.
Nov 15 09:38:00 <greguu> means, the linux port may have to use software rotation. same as on the GPD series AFAIK
Nov 15 09:39:31 <VartiWork> there's libhybris too, though that one ties you to a specific Android release
Nov 15 09:41:00 <greguu> libhybris allows you to run linux userpace apps via an android kernel, it does not solve the problem.
Nov 15 09:41:46 <greguu> anyway, these new clamshell PDA's are tempting, but not as carefully desiged as they should be
Nov 15 09:45:01 <VartiWork> from my (limited) understanding, I guess that libhybris allows the use of binary Android drivers under a glibc system
Nov 15 09:45:34 <greguu> this is true\
Nov 15 09:46:07 <greguu> my nexus 5 uses libhybris to run SailfishOS
Nov 15 09:46:20 <VartiWork> IMHO these first pdas need to first create a niche market, then maybe other, better devices will surface
Nov 15 09:47:42 <VartiWork> what's probably missing is the offer of small, smartphone sized, landscape oriented screens
Nov 15 09:48:37 <greguu> not sure people crave for this. It may be people like us that dig this kind of thing.
Nov 15 09:48:54 <greguu> smartphone dominate this market now
Nov 15 09:49:17 <greguu> the real deal is the physical keyboard
Nov 15 09:49:29 <VartiWork> the gemini's release will be a good indicator on the size of this market
Nov 15 09:50:14 <greguu> true, lets wait and see.
Nov 15 09:50:26 <VartiWork> the Gemini is the first device that could be used as a phone device too, although it remains to be seen how confortable it will be to make phone calls with it
Nov 15 09:50:37 <VartiWork> the GPD devices are UMPC only
Nov 15 09:50:59 <VartiWork> I'm afraid that with the Gemini, voice quality won't be that good
Nov 15 09:51:12 <greguu> can it do 4G?
Nov 15 09:51:16 <VartiWork> yes
Nov 15 09:51:40 <VartiWork> I believe it supports most worldwide bands
Nov 15 09:51:52 <greguu> any sim card ?
Nov 15 09:54:35 <VartiWork> Micro SIMs AFAIR
Nov 15 09:56:11 <VartiWork> ah, Mini SIMs apparently (the bigger, standard ones)
Nov 15 09:56:12 <greguu> sounds good, just the focus on Android is an issue
Nov 15 09:56:45 <greguu> are all the drivers opensourced ?
Nov 15 09:57:28 <greguu> What Linux distribution will Gemini run?
Nov 15 09:57:31 <greguu> We are currently talking to a few companies representing different Linux flavours and we are considering a number of options but the decision has not been taken yet. We are also taking into accounts comments from the backers into consideration, including Sailfish & Ubuntu OS, which have been suggested several times.
Nov 15 09:58:43 <greguu> being dual use, phone and workstation, sailfish would get my vote
Nov 15 09:59:45 <greguu> keep in mind, sailfish is also not 100% opensource
Nov 15 10:00:50 <VartiWork> they chose Debian
Nov 15 10:01:56 <VartiWork> and a Mediatek chipset, i.e. they don't provide Linux drivers, only Android ones
Nov 15 10:02:46 <VartiWork> Gemini's people are putting pressure on Mediatek to release Linux drivers too, although that won't be likely happening IMHO
Nov 15 10:03:12 <VartiWork> the Gemini will most probably be crippled under Linux, it remains to be seen how much
Nov 15 10:03:50 <VartiWork> sailfish would be also great, I have always read good things about it
Nov 15 10:04:11 * greguu is gone for the day
Nov 15 10:04:26 <VartiWork> good night
Nov 15 10:04:31 <greguu> cheers
Nov 15 22:26:06 <ant_home> bluelightning, hi
Nov 15 22:26:13 <bluelightning> hi ant_home
Nov 15 22:26:39 <ant_home> we have filures with arm64
Nov 15 22:26:48 <ant_home> in meta-initramfs
Nov 15 22:27:21 <ant_home> I am thinking to exclude arm64, but how
Nov 15 22:27:29 <ant_home> COMPATIBLE_MACHINE_remove ?
Nov 15 22:28:23 <bluelightning> well, you can't remove something that's not there... COMPATIBLE_MACHINE is "" by default which means all
Nov 15 22:28:29 <ant_home> or just limit kexec-tools-klibc and ubi-utils-klibc
Nov 15 22:28:46 <bluelightning> you'd have to craft a statement that included everything but what you want to exclude
Nov 15 22:28:46 <ant_home> or put these recipes in meta-handheld
Nov 15 22:29:04 <bluelightning> I suspect you want COMPATIBLE_HOST rather than COMPATIBLE_MACHINE
Nov 15 22:29:20 <ant_home> I am wondering about the least effort...I suspect we are the only users
Nov 15 22:29:56 <ant_home> why HOST? it is TARGET isn't?
Nov 15 22:30:57 <ant_home> see, there is only the initramfs-kexecboot-klibc-image using these
Nov 15 22:31:01 <bluelightning> well, HOST doesn't always mean build host ;)
Nov 15 22:31:16 <ant_home> ok ok
Nov 15 22:31:30 <bluelightning> actually you can do COMPATIBLE_HOST_aarch64 = "null"
Nov 15 22:31:36 <bluelightning> we use that trick in a few places
Nov 15 22:31:59 <ant_home> I've thought about COMPATIBLE_MACHINE_aarch64 = ""
Nov 15 22:32:04 <ant_home> heh  wrong
Nov 15 22:32:12 <bluelightning> yeah that won't work though as you no doubt found :)
Nov 15 22:32:21 <ant_home> ok, but again , we are the only users I bet
Nov 15 22:32:36 <ant_home> what about pulling all in meta-handheld?
Nov 15 22:33:04 <bluelightning> well, I'd say leave it where it is, you never know who's using it (or will in the future)
Nov 15 22:33:20 <ant_home> that's also true :)
Nov 15 22:33:22 <bluelightning> the COMPATIBLE_HOST fix is fairly trivial
Nov 15 22:33:39 <bluelightning> just leave a comment next to it explaining it's currently broken for aarch64
Nov 15 22:34:01 <ant_home> ok, for kexec there is a porting patch for the actual version...we lag years behind
Nov 15 22:34:35 <ant_home> I don't think it is worth the effort or even the backport is posible
Nov 15 22:34:57 <ant_home> kexec has been horribly broken for several archs in the last years...
Nov 15 22:35:21 <ant_home> we had luck it was working for us back in 2009 ;)
Nov 15 22:36:14 <ant_home> about mtd-utils I'll ask khem, iirc it's easier to update and tehy even took our patches
Nov 15 22:36:51 <ant_home> ok, I'll think about that, thanks for the hint
Nov 15 22:38:57 <ant_home> I'm over-excited today because tomorrow I'll put my hand on this vintage beauty
Nov 15 22:38:58 <ant_home> http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-A-X9.html
Nov 15 22:42:01 <ant_home> I am only scared by this...
Nov 15 22:42:03 <ant_home> PC : 	240W (max. ; 100V version)
Nov 15 22:42:03 <ant_home> 660W (max. ; multivoltage version)
Nov 15 22:42:18 <ant_home> well, it is cold here now ;)
Nov 15 22:42:33 <bluelightning> ant_home: nice
Nov 15 22:42:45 <ant_home> 199w out = 600w in  ...mystery
Nov 15 22:42:51 <ant_home> 100w out
Nov 15 22:43:11 <ant_home> it is not class A, is a breeding
Nov 15 22:43:15 <ant_home> A/B
Nov 15 22:43:21 <bluelightning> my dad has some vintage stereo gear (Sony / Nakamichi tape decks with  Quad amp/preamp) all in a nice wood case built by my grandfather
Nov 15 22:43:29 <ant_home> wow
Nov 15 22:44:23 <ant_home> I started in the 80's so after the golden era
Nov 15 22:44:37 <ant_home> and with student budget ;)
Nov 15 22:45:00 <ant_home> nowadays you can afford those monsters like Nakamichi and MCIntosh
Nov 15 22:45:14 <ant_home> for hundreds not thousands
Nov 15 22:45:47 <ant_home> AU is good market afair, you get supply direct from JP
Nov 15 22:46:08 <ant_home> but you have 50hz TV as Italy
Nov 15 22:46:11 <ant_home> ;)
Nov 15 22:49:16 <ant_home> bluelightning, another thing
Nov 15 22:49:21 <ant_home> about OPIE
Nov 15 22:49:50 <ant_home> I happen to have two Ubuntu's so I can build older stuff
Nov 15 22:51:20 <ant_home> I suppose the change to bluez5 will be traumatic for OPIE
Nov 15 22:52:43 <ant_home> maybe we should start 'repairing' the older versions, I think rocko will not build/run flawlessly
Nov 15 22:52:59 <ant_home> *on rocko
Nov 15 22:53:47 <ant_home> the touchscreen is broken since years...
Nov 15 22:55:00 <ant_home> Varti, I think you should also upload somewhere the OPIE builds of LinuxPDA once tested
Nov 15 22:55:36 <ant_home> I might force the build so *all kernel modules are preinstalled
Nov 15 22:56:37 <ant_home> btw I have deleted all the old, intermediary builds of LinuxPDA gihub
Nov 15 22:57:11 <ant_home> if you have some space we could upload the OE's feeds
Nov 15 22:57:33 <ant_home> for Zaurus ofc
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 16 03:00:01 2017