**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 30 02:59:57 2007 May 30 05:57:40 Hi May 30 06:21:25 hello May 30 06:22:45 anyone gotten an n800 to connect to a laptop via bluetooth to do networking over laptop's network? May 30 06:23:11 this a linux laptop, btw May 30 06:25:08 wow, 180 people, no one home? May 30 06:28:54 i don't have a n800 or a laptop with bluetooth May 30 06:33:43 sorry, a realize this might not be correct channel for this sorta question, maybe there is another chanel for n800 or any non developerish questions? May 30 06:34:36 i think this is a good channel for that May 30 06:36:44 thing is I have wired ethernet to my laptop, i´d like to use the laptop as gateway for N800 May 30 06:37:20 i used to be able to turn my precious laptop into a wifi AP, but this new one has different chipset for wifi May 30 06:37:36 that is previous laptop, not precious...sorry May 30 06:41:56 i think there is something about bluetooth networking in the wiki May 30 06:51:43 cosmo: he said wifi AP, not BT May 30 06:52:05 that sounds more like a problem that the laptop os vendor should help w/ May 30 06:52:11 oh May 30 06:52:23 hrm, no, i didn't see the earlier scrollback, sorry :( May 30 06:53:23 http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HOWTO-BluetoothNetworking May 30 07:29:53 Hi to all ... May 30 07:34:29 hi mk8 May 30 07:34:37 Hi Free_maN May 30 07:34:44 :) May 30 07:52:04 hello maemo May 30 07:52:32 again! May 30 07:52:45 danm...who has the nick maemo May 30 07:52:47 hi May 30 07:52:51 hllo May 30 07:53:10 maybe i should register that one.. May 30 07:53:11 heh May 30 07:54:01 ok, i'm officially a loser May 30 07:54:05 :p May 30 07:54:23 join the crew keesj, register 770 May 30 07:57:23 nick.. May 30 07:58:01 770 erroneous nickname May 30 07:58:50 I need to get me a real nick :P May 30 07:59:45 try May 30 08:00:10 ThatReallyNiceGuy May 30 08:00:22 too orinal May 30 08:00:26 original May 30 08:00:34 RemovusWrinklusFrumYourForuhead May 30 08:00:54 IneededARealNickSoIchooseThisOne May 30 08:01:09 rly? (: May 30 08:01:18 lol May 30 08:01:22 ya rly May 30 08:01:24 o_O May 30 08:01:28 no waii! :D May 30 08:01:37 '- ' May 30 08:02:06 I_SeriouselyNeedSomeNewbieHelp May 30 08:02:13 CamelCaseIsForLoses...OhWait... May 30 08:02:16 +r May 30 08:02:53 LifesAbitchAndThenYouDie May 30 08:03:51 i have seriously run out of ideas for osx86 and my n800 May 30 08:04:24 N800: it's summer that's perhaps why May 30 08:04:30 at least here in amsterdam :p May 30 08:04:51 i party hard in the winter... May 30 08:04:56 summer i chill.... May 30 08:05:04 too much trouble in nueva york.. May 30 08:05:25 teh devil is out full blown in new york city... May 30 08:07:32 N800: for the the big question is actualy what do I want to do on the devices May 30 08:07:55 I like programming , that is really all I really like to do May 30 08:08:01 (on computers that is) May 30 08:08:16 i don't know how to program.. May 30 08:08:24 i think thats my problem May 30 08:08:26 hi * problems to install camera on sardine May 30 08:08:31 So I guess I would like to program ON you May 30 08:09:07 program on me May 30 08:09:09 hmmmm May 30 08:09:14 kinky May 30 08:09:14 i don't know about that.. May 30 08:09:29 I'm tryng ti install from the deb on garage.maemo May 30 08:09:36 the camera 2_7 May 30 08:09:45 But I am happy that somebody is working on gcompris, I guess I need to spend time on that May 30 08:10:13 pick up mtpaint botux... May 30 08:10:18 it needs you... May 30 08:10:20 heheh May 30 08:10:30 i need it.. May 30 08:11:16 did you try the new image editor? May 30 08:11:24 which? May 30 08:11:31 xournal? May 30 08:12:31 Mirage May 30 08:12:44 thats a photoviewer May 30 08:12:48 isn't it? May 30 08:13:00 Yes , oops sorry May 30 08:13:05 lol May 30 08:13:15 image editor..same difference May 30 08:13:26 i did try horizon.. May 30 08:13:31 very nice...but limited.. May 30 08:13:38 and has issues May 30 08:13:47 I liked it May 30 08:14:04 i installed visual studio today.. May 30 08:14:20 i installed lots of dev apps last 2 dayz.. May 30 08:15:55 not sure why...after reading some going thru some ebooks on the different languages.. May 30 08:16:37 not sure i need them May 30 08:17:41 N800: do you work in the embeded world? May 30 08:18:47 no May 30 08:18:59 I'm an artist... May 30 08:19:12 fuck that could mean anything now days... May 30 08:21:49 :D May 30 08:24:13 i don't sing or pretend to be somone i'm no...I don't get paid for doing lots of cocaine being 6,1 and weighing 140 pounds...I'm a real artist...something like a bob ross... May 30 08:25:35 the part about doing the cocaine.... May 30 08:25:50 ? May 30 08:26:48 I would if it birth a masterpiece.... May 30 08:29:59 N800: Do you create art on your N800? :) May 30 08:31:25 good morning May 30 08:31:58 yes i do... May 30 08:32:11 but am limited to a small screen... May 30 08:32:32 i was using smaller...i have a ppc6700 that I made some real nice stuff on.. May 30 08:36:03 N800: Do you have some of your work online? May 30 08:38:10 http://unique11210.googlepages.com/monthly0.html May 30 08:38:15 i have that May 30 08:38:21 very proud of it.. May 30 08:38:33 cause if you look close you can see its a bunch of lines... May 30 08:38:51 knowing the size of the device i did it on.. May 30 08:39:18 I have paintings.... May 30 08:40:05 lots of blackbook works... May 30 08:40:47 ping May 30 08:40:57 is anyone here familiar w/ /proc/cpuinfo? May 30 08:41:04 I'll update that page with something i do on the N800 May 30 08:41:14 i think i have something.. May 30 08:43:55 X-fade you draw.... May 30 08:43:59 timeless: What of it? May 30 08:48:27 i'm wondering how standardized its output is May 30 08:48:31 timeless@boffo:~$ grep -E '^model name\W*:.*Katmai' /proc/cpuinfo May 30 08:48:31 model name : Pentium III (Katmai) May 30 08:48:50 can i be assured that my search for something like that will always do something like i want? May 30 08:49:09 is a token like 'model name' ever going to change its spelling, flavor, etc? May 30 08:49:26 do I need to do LC_ALL=C before doing cat /proc/cpuinfo? May 30 08:50:03 will the : ever become some other marker? ... May 30 08:51:02 * timeless sighs May 30 08:52:38 "always" is a bit strong word here... :) May 30 08:53:06 N800: Sorry, I was away from the keyboard. May 30 08:53:30 np May 30 08:53:37 N800: Nice one.. As you are drawing on a low res device.. May 30 08:54:05 N800 at least has a higher resolution.. 800x480. May 30 08:54:26 yes May 30 08:54:38 can take advantage of that in fullscreen... May 30 08:55:02 the drawing app i used for the ppc is called vaspaint... May 30 08:55:12 lots of usefull tools.. May 30 08:55:28 i get the same from mtpaint. May 30 08:56:42 http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f333/unique311/?action=view¤t=Budn800screen.jpg May 30 08:56:51 thats from mtpaint on the n800 May 30 08:57:25 which is not. bad....could be better.... May 30 08:57:46 timeless: There can be multiple "model name" rows at least. I have 2 processors and it shows them both. May 30 08:58:13 N800: Yeah, you would need a full screen app. May 30 08:59:38 the screenshot is from mtpaint also..theirs a feature to take screens with it... May 30 08:59:50 not a bad app at all.. May 30 09:04:03 okko: i have 2 processors too, not particularly worried about that May 30 09:04:21 i'm actually looking for: system type : EE PS2 May 30 09:04:42 and i'm hoping that I won't encounter a computer w/ different flavors of MIPS :) May 30 09:08:40 timeless: my PC doesn't give system type at all May 30 09:08:47 * timeless nods May 30 09:08:50 nor do any of mine May 30 09:09:12 ok :) May 30 09:09:36 which is part of the reason that i'm very worried about writing a patch May 30 09:14:22 ... while (fgets(buf, 256, f)) { - if ( (strstr(buf, "system type\t\t: ") == buf) ... Unfortunately the format of /proc/cpuinfo is not standardized. ... May 30 09:14:22 www.ssl.berkeley.edu/pipermail/boinc_cvs/2006-June/009274.html - 11k - May 30 09:14:26 that's so reassuring May 30 09:33:43 hello May 30 09:33:53 any .install file wizards around? May 30 09:34:08 is it possible to specify multiple repositories May 30 09:34:35 I have difficulties accessing the maemo website... May 30 09:37:05 jkyro, the app installer documentation says it is possible, but it isn't May 30 09:37:22 jkyro, it might be in svn, but not in the version currently shipped May 30 09:38:43 ok, so the options are either to copy the depended packages over or perform some other ugliness... May 30 09:41:39 thanks for the quick reply May 30 09:47:13 Even though development in the open is a good thing, this also brings frustration when it advances lightyears ahead of (non-open) sw releases. It's like: "Hey, here's [candy feature]. Oh, you need to wait for a release where it is to be able to use it. And no, nobody can say when it's coming since it's company s3kr1ts." May 30 09:50:11 zuh: true May 30 09:50:17 And it's of course worse when it applies to bugs too May 30 11:04:55 would someone know what I'm doing wrong when scratchbox says "You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first" when I try to switch from X86 to ARMEL May 30 11:05:24 it works one time and after that only that error until reboot May 30 11:06:33 you need to kill all the processes you've started inside scratchbox May 30 11:08:37 oh May 30 11:10:42 stupid me :) May 30 11:10:44 thanks May 30 11:13:04 np May 30 11:15:13 Hi all! May 30 11:15:40 * konttori_ just released ukmp 1.0 (for real!) May 30 11:15:48 demonstration video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCIANUJ-ctg May 30 11:16:02 debian here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1491/UKMP-1.0.deb May 30 11:16:14 (you need to have python installed) May 30 11:16:28 if you don't have python, install from here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1182/python2.4-runtime.install May 30 11:20:42 Comments thread in here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=50157#post50157 May 30 11:30:22 ben c est juste un pub . May 30 11:30:23 oups May 30 12:07:45 I just updated my n800 with latest libgtk/glib and now it won't boot May 30 12:07:49 0_0 May 30 12:08:05 latest as in the ones from the Repositories wiki page May 30 12:08:07 for 2007 May 30 12:11:15 what the hell May 30 12:12:07 libgtk 2.10.6-0ubuntu3.1 May 30 12:12:08 ?! May 30 12:17:08 any news on the repository situation? May 30 12:18:21 i-nZ: How did _that_ gtk end up on your device? :) May 30 12:18:41 repos May 30 12:18:45 as I already told you May 30 12:18:49 it is in the repos May 30 12:18:54 i will kill the one who put it there May 30 12:19:00 can someone tell me how to downgraden now May 30 12:19:24 i-nZ: Do you have a dualboot setup? May 30 12:19:30 no May 30 12:20:19 please help me May 30 12:20:23 how to use apt-get to downgrade May 30 12:20:25 I am in ssh May 30 12:20:35 Ah, you can still connect to it? May 30 12:20:40 libgtk2.0-0 (= 2.10.6-0ubuntu3.1) but 2:2.6.10-2.osso30 is to be installed May 30 12:20:46 i-nZ: apt-get install $package=$version May 30 12:20:47 Yeah i can. but the OS doesn't load May 30 12:20:50 ah = May 30 12:21:09 libgtk2.0-0 is already the newest version. May 30 12:21:11 :| May 30 12:21:23 apt-get install libgtk2.0-0=2:2.6.10-2.osso30 May 30 12:22:15 apt-get upgrade libgtk2.0-0=2:2.6.10-2.osso30 May 30 12:22:19 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. May 30 12:22:22 now what? May 30 12:22:34 why doesn't apt-get have query command May 30 12:22:37 ARGH May 30 12:22:44 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.1/free/binary/libgtk2.0-bin_2.6.10-2.osso30_armel.deb May 30 12:22:57 You can download and install that with dpkg? May 30 12:22:58 i have that repository added May 30 12:23:01 okay May 30 12:23:41 i think I also have libglib ubuntu installed May 30 12:25:26 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.1/free/binary/libglib2.0-0_2.8.6-1osso11_armel.deb May 30 12:25:31 thanks May 30 12:26:18 now how can I query where is the ubuntu package? May 30 12:26:24 * i-nZ thinks he will install smart May 30 12:26:51 i-nZ: Just apt-get upgrade and use the download only option? May 30 12:27:05 let's see if the device will load maemo at all May 30 12:27:06 That way you can see where it fetches the fike.. May 30 12:27:13 *file May 30 12:28:08 hi all May 30 12:28:15 wtf May 30 12:28:21 now it loops infinetly in loading May 30 12:29:39 and I can no longer ssh May 30 12:29:40 0_0 May 30 12:30:21 i-nZ: Hmm then it probably updated another package too.. May 30 12:31:02 sys-magic May 30 12:31:13 glib gtk and iptables afair May 30 12:31:15 busybox too May 30 12:32:00 now i am completly screwed May 30 12:32:04 * i-nZ cries May 30 12:34:09 Blog entry for the ukmp 1.0 launch: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html May 30 12:34:37 btw what is the license of corola corona or whatever it is spelled May 30 12:34:52 canola? May 30 12:34:56 yes May 30 12:35:26 Dunno, but it's closed anyway May 30 12:35:53 right closed May 30 12:36:53 i am going to flash the device May 30 12:39:50 the release upload on garage.maemo.org does not seem to work for me May 30 12:43:18 is this supposed to work: from my workstation i'm going to downloads.maemo.org, on the right side bar, i select "IT OS 2007" then click fetch and there are still IT OS 2006 only packages displayed May 30 12:48:04 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/admin/qrs.php is not working May 30 12:51:29 i can't seem to get the nokia flashed May 30 12:51:52 http://pastebin.ca/522471 May 30 12:52:02 just prints that but i don't see any flashing activity May 30 12:53:29 ideas? May 30 12:53:43 ops May 30 12:53:59 missed the -F May 30 12:55:09 i am going to kill the guy who placed ubuntu packages in the maemo repo May 30 12:57:21 ugh, really? May 30 12:57:30 I mean the packages part... May 30 13:11:50 help me :( don't arrived to install new modull cx3110 for n770 May 30 13:11:53 i-nZ: uh, what packages? May 30 13:12:18 rmmod cx3110x May 30 13:12:24 libgtk and libglib May 30 13:12:37 insmod cx3110x_mt ==> no such device May 30 13:12:41 :( May 30 13:13:04 i-nZ: which repo? May 30 13:13:12 i don't know which one it was May 30 13:13:51 one of those for 2007 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationrepositories/ May 30 13:15:40 i-nZ: looks like it would be http://repository.nrcc.noklab.com/ May 30 13:16:10 yes it looks like May 30 13:19:04 maybe that should be removed from the list May 30 13:21:02 the eko and tortoise are dead links too May 30 14:01:27 hi * tryng build pack for the latest trunk version of hildon-desktop 0.0.15 but when I launch dpkg-builpackage i got an: May 30 14:01:33 dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libxcomposite-dev May 30 14:02:00 anyway i don't find the libcomposite in sardine nor any other repo May 30 14:03:12 s/libcomposite/libxcomposite-dev May 30 14:04:33 but when i go with an dpkg-buildpackage -d -rfakeroot everything goes smooth May 30 14:05:32 so whats wrong with /me? well nothing just to know what is that lixcomposite May 30 14:06:13 ls May 30 14:29:22 pna: libxcomposite is the interface library for the Composite extension. I guess hildon-desktop only optionally uses it so ignoring the build dependancy causes no harm (the feature is just automatically disabled in the configure script) May 30 14:34:24 Do you know if SD cards have high impact on battery life? May 30 14:34:37 and what if I use an SD card to increase the virtual memory? May 30 14:35:35 do you often run out of memory? May 30 14:35:56 Well I have had this device for a couple of days only May 30 14:36:00 I'd say the 64 megs of the 770 is not enough, but the 128 megs of the n800 so far has been plenty for my use cases May 30 14:36:07 mhm May 30 14:36:15 ah its cool May 30 14:36:18 I suggets a memory monitor statusbar applet (load-applet or osso-statusbar-cpu) May 30 14:36:19 i installed remote desktop May 30 14:36:28 works smoothly, only pb is that i can't enter any text :) May 30 14:36:51 guardian: I've heard that rdesktop has that problem May 30 14:36:53 so what about the impact on battery life? May 30 14:36:58 windows has its own on-screen keyboard, doesn't it? May 30 14:37:06 * mgedmin has no idea about SD card impact on battery life May 30 14:37:26 * mgedmin charges his n800 once a day, and uses it heavily for reading e-books May 30 14:37:48 i will be flying on sunday and just ripped some of my dvds May 30 14:37:51 the battery lasts 5-6 hours when offline and reading with fbreader May 30 14:37:51 to watch :) May 30 14:38:08 mhm May 30 14:38:19 maybe more, I've never measured it accurately May 30 14:38:21 i just put 2x 2gb cards in :) May 30 14:38:30 maybe a bit excessive May 30 14:38:46 I have one 4gb card May 30 14:38:48 * zuh has 4Gig+the original May 30 14:38:49 it still has 1 gig free May 30 14:39:07 I had another 512 meg in the other slot, but it suddenly died on me May 30 14:39:18 I didn't know SD cards could just up and die with no prior warning May 30 14:39:28 it's not readable with a USB SD reader either May 30 14:40:12 mgedmin: well i could install handwriting recognition on the windows pc i'm accessing through remote desktop :) May 30 14:41:46 I am quite intreguied to see how much the battery will last for watching a movie May 30 14:41:47 :)) May 30 14:43:05 what software do you use to convert .docs etc to something that you can nicely read? May 30 14:43:26 i dont use .doc :) May 30 14:43:34 but you may print them in a file May 30 14:43:46 so you have a postscript file , and from them ps2pdf May 30 14:44:15 isn't there an abiword port for maemo? May 30 14:44:23 it ought to be able to read .doc files May 30 14:44:33 * mgedmin isn't very interested, /me doesn't use .doc either May 30 14:45:15 there is for n770 May 30 14:45:18 mgedmin: the abiword port is quite unstable May 30 14:45:22 well doc/odt May 30 14:45:28 doesn't worth a try May 30 14:45:37 not yet May 30 14:45:39 pdf reading isn't very pleasant May 30 14:45:54 the built-in reader in n800 can't scroll with a shortcut May 30 14:46:08 i-nZ, what do you mean by that? May 30 14:46:09 i-nZ: Use evince May 30 14:46:10 and there is no word wrapping May 30 14:46:23 yeah, no word-wrapping May 30 14:46:25 evince is a bit slow and seems to put a lot of load on the cpu when antialiasing the text May 30 14:46:27 so the fonts get pretty tiny May 30 14:46:44 other than that it's not too bad May 30 14:46:46 so it drains the battery more i suppose May 30 14:46:59 fbreader is cute but doesn't handle large stuff May 30 14:47:08 I last tried evince on the 770, and it ate up all the memory after rendering 3 or 4 pages May 30 14:47:09 i have 1200 pages rtf and txt May 30 14:47:15 refuses to load May 30 14:47:20 oh? May 30 14:47:27 i-nZ: But it isn't as braindead to use as the orig. pdf viewer May 30 14:47:29 I'm surprised May 30 14:47:33 i ended up using html to read that May 30 14:47:37 fbreader hasn't choked up on any file yet May 30 14:47:58 although it had some problems with some rtf files (missing sentences, that kind of thing) May 30 14:48:21 I finally discovered it didn't like a \* May 30 14:48:23 i had encoding problems with rtf May 30 14:48:26 is it me or maemo.org is slow ? May 30 14:48:30 yes it is May 30 14:48:34 ok May 30 14:48:38 i won't blame it then :D May 30 14:48:39 as usual May 30 14:48:44 google cache helps May 30 14:48:44 :) May 30 14:49:02 seems that migration to midgard is not a smooth process :/ May 30 14:49:25 so at the end of the day if I want to read documents i have on my desktop PC i don't get much choice May 30 14:52:17 can I get gcc on the device ? :P May 30 14:52:22 on the nokia n800 May 30 14:53:33 i-nZ: why ? May 30 14:53:40 (note that i dont know the anwser :) ) May 30 14:53:45 i compile stuff on scratchbox May 30 14:53:52 i dunno not to feel deprived :)) May 30 14:54:03 scratchbox May 30 14:54:03 i am so confused with this debian stuff still May 30 14:54:06 plus it s faster May 30 14:54:10 that's for sure May 30 15:54:26 umm... May 30 15:54:46 Could someone stop that nick toggling from happening? May 30 15:55:31 Either Pr3dS|Phgre, Phoenigore or anyone with teh Powa to do so the less friendly way... May 30 15:56:19 <`0660> Phoenigore, why do you change your nick all the time? May 30 15:57:30 <`0660> hmm, it seems to happen every 5 minutes. the actual person might not be aware of it May 30 16:00:31 note to self: learn irssi May 30 16:00:41 anyone happen to know the kline command? :) May 30 16:09:07 Aircrack for palm? May 30 16:25:22 now that are interesting nicks, thanks for sharing May 30 17:06:46 hello May 30 18:04:01 little too quiet in here May 30 18:04:09 * Sulis drops a pin May 30 18:04:16 *cricket* May 30 18:04:34 *tumbleweed* May 30 18:05:21 I mean, we have working Java now May 30 18:05:34 I figured that'd be good for some talking =/ May 30 18:05:58 geez May 30 18:06:39 java :) welcome to 1999 May 30 18:06:41 java huh May 30 18:06:45 who needs java when there is mono May 30 18:06:57 *c#/mono May 30 18:06:57 guardian: yeah, I know :) May 30 18:07:02 i would say, isn't mono worthless now that java is open source ? May 30 18:07:15 reinventing another wheel that in the end is the same May 30 18:07:21 the next-gen Microsoft VMs look pretty interesting May 30 18:07:29 I will say May 30 18:07:51 J2ME is kind of perfect for the N800, imnho. May 30 18:08:02 at least it keeps people busy May 30 18:08:03 personal profile would be better May 30 18:08:04 no .NET equivalent really exists (.NET CF doesn't count) May 30 18:08:14 we have personal profile now :) May 30 18:08:19 we do?? May 30 18:08:21 well, we have basis, which is allegedly a superset of personal May 30 18:08:21 great May 30 18:08:52 what's the avantage of using garage compared to my own server space ? May 30 18:09:09 guardian: lots more traffic/publicity on garage May 30 18:09:24 i don't look for fame May 30 18:10:06 it's not fame, but it'd be easier to find your stuff on garage May 30 18:10:17 plus, if it's on garage, I imagine getting it in to extras is easier May 30 19:37:40 maemo.org... down? May 30 19:38:17 not here May 30 19:38:34 no May 30 19:38:35 planet seemed to disappear for a bit - back now. May 30 19:38:39 works here also May 30 19:38:40 (thanks) May 30 19:38:59 I just wanted to see if there was any comment on the Palm Foleo - what an odd device! May 30 19:39:14 Those guys better take another hit... May 30 19:39:51 what is that? May 30 19:39:56 New Palm device May 30 19:40:01 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9436/palm-officially-introduces-the-foleo/ May 30 19:40:08 A "Smartphone Companion" May 30 19:40:18 i just checked that out.. May 30 19:40:27 what a co en ki denk May 30 19:40:28 looks like a laptop to me May 30 19:40:30 huh May 30 19:40:38 its a palmtop May 30 19:40:40 indeeed May 30 19:40:40 hehehe May 30 19:40:44 I say it's the N800 but in a bigger form that makes it useless May 30 19:40:49 10" screen, 2lb weight, no touchscreen, 1024x800 screen, WiFi, BT... it's a laptop! May 30 19:41:01 * Linux OS for easy application development May 30 19:41:12 Palm Fanboys have already dubbed it the "Fooleo"... I think they may be right May 30 19:41:29 yeah, it is a laptop, although a fairly compact one May 30 19:42:06 compact for sure, but big enough to be compared directly with a laptop where it will probably be slated May 30 19:42:13 theirs also a video of the founder talking avout it.. May 30 19:42:16 probably == should be May 30 19:42:18 and its small.. May 30 19:42:40 looks like that little compact sony vaio...that i still want but can't afford... May 30 19:42:41 unique311 - I watched it, and felt embarassed May 30 19:43:21 unique311: i think the one that you're refering to is smaller than that... May 30 19:43:34 If Palm had come up with something using the N800 form factor they might have been on to something but this... this is what took them five years??? Perhaps they should have revised the form factor at some point during the last couple of years May 30 19:44:25 Hey, is it possible to create an .install file without a repo? May 30 19:44:28 at one point i wanted to get one of the 10" ibooks May 30 19:44:47 Like just contain a link to the .deb file May 30 19:44:59 konttori: why would you want to do that? May 30 19:45:08 konttori: not that i am aware of, but you can make a really simple repository with 1 directory, and 1 deb inside May 30 19:45:19 So that I can use a garage account May 30 19:45:32 hi, would a dbus question appropriate here? May 30 19:46:10 koos: i guess so as long as it s maemo related . May 30 19:46:34 just for the record, i m clueless for any dbus and lib osso stuff :( May 30 19:46:44 there's a May 30 19:46:49 ahem May 30 19:47:07 there's a channel called #dbus on this network where all the d-bus devs hang out May 30 19:47:28 melmoth, sulis: ok, I go there .. May 30 19:48:03 :( i didn't mean to tell him to go away May 30 19:49:02 <||cw> Sulis: some people don't understand that you can be in more than one channel May 30 19:49:05 melmoth: but that would require a dir named build, right? May 30 19:49:14 not necessarily May 30 19:49:35 http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto May 30 19:50:11 the main stuff is the dpkg-scanpackages utilitiThat creates Packages.gz May 30 19:51:08 konttori: another issue is also that the web server where the .install file is located must tell it s a specific mime type May 30 19:51:15 Ok, but I still can't use garage folders, as then users would have one repo for every release they DL. = not nice May 30 19:51:18 otherwise, the browser will just display it May 30 19:51:36 why oh why debian why oh why May 30 19:51:47 now i have to learn a new system May 30 19:51:54 this is not a debian issue, this is a maemo one (hte .install file) May 30 19:52:03 i am moaning in general May 30 19:52:07 for the nokia n800 May 30 19:52:09 my ability to complain about the debian package system is sharply constrained by how well it works :) May 30 19:52:13 konttori: if i understand correclty , if your app is mature enough you can have it hosted on extra May 30 19:52:19 Yeah May 30 19:52:25 Really? May 30 19:52:27 How? May 30 19:52:31 wait May 30 19:53:03 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ExtrasRepository May 30 19:53:11 There is an example video of the ukmp app in here: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html May 30 19:53:22 sweet! thank you! May 30 19:53:47 konttori: dark skin reminds me of today's surface demo :) May 30 19:53:56 * Aleksandyr dreams of a multitouch driver for the N800. May 30 19:54:04 what surface demo? May 30 19:54:09 Microsoft Surface? May 30 19:54:19 it's the iTable May 30 19:54:39 Haven't seen it yet. watching now May 30 19:55:04 Is it possible HW wise to have multitouch in maemo? May 30 19:55:11 I mean for 770 / N800? May 30 19:55:17 konttori...you build the media player using visual basic? May 30 19:55:26 I assume that whatever lets thumb-detection work May 30 19:55:28 Nope, with python May 30 19:55:31 ok May 30 19:55:33 could be modified to do basic multi-touch detection May 30 19:55:53 How are you with C++? May 30 19:55:59 I mean, assuming the touchpad works the way I expect it does May 30 19:56:02 so that you could have some gestures or something? May 30 19:56:09 that would be cool May 30 19:56:14 unique311: Haven't coded it much lately. Should be ok. May 30 19:56:18 daniel stone said it's impossible iirc, search maemo-developers archives May 30 19:56:41 xan, I imagine there's a controller in between me and the raw touchpad resistance values May 30 19:58:19 I'd rather see PowerVR drivers first, of course :) May 30 19:58:37 PowerVR? May 30 19:58:52 the N800 sports a PowerVR MBX accelerator May 30 19:59:23 Nokia did hint that they were in discussions about the powervr. May 30 20:00:13 fyi, the powervr mbx is what allows the N95 to play 640x480 MPEG4 at 30fps May 30 20:00:16 Aleksandyr, as far as I remember the HW simply can't give you more than one pressure point at the same time, but as I said I'm only quoting from memory May 30 20:00:21 ooo, 3d chip in the n800? May 30 20:00:31 xan, makes sense, who would ever want multiple pressure point data =/ May 30 20:00:48 * Aleksandyr is digging through the archives anyways for form's sake. May 30 20:00:51 xan: I'm remembering the same thing. May 30 20:01:16 Aleksandyr, I suppose it's simply more expensive to do :) May 30 20:01:21 I think the design of multi May 30 20:01:27 Ups May 30 20:01:33 /whois konttori May 30 20:01:41 xan, not only that, but there's all sorts of event models that expect one point at a time May 30 20:01:44 ups :P May 30 20:01:48 ;) May 30 20:01:57 good one! May 30 20:02:11 :D May 30 20:02:20 is thumb mode simply a pressure-based option? I've never really used it May 30 20:02:24 damn spacebar May 30 20:02:28 hehe May 30 20:03:24 I wonder how many patents microsoft has already aplied for on the surface project. May 30 20:03:44 I'm confused as to how they didn't step on the iPhone May 30 20:03:55 how could they do that? May 30 20:03:57 then again, a multi-touch surface is a pretty obvious generalization. May 30 20:05:27 Aleksandyr: obvious to techy geek types :P May 30 20:07:16 can there be any other point for the 'surface' demo than to let investors know microsoft is 'on top of the game' and letting investors know of new patents? I mean have they told any concrete examples of use (like... say apple has done on the iphone) May 30 20:07:40 it is a bit of shilling for the press May 30 20:07:59 apprently it's targetted at restaurants... not expecting it to appear in my local chinese anytime soon May 30 20:07:59 but it's an honest-to-goodness way to expand computing into the living room May 30 20:09:01 also, i'm not really sure i want to slide my fingers all over a surface in a public space... i don't suppose Bill thought of the hygiene issues here May 30 20:09:02 konttori: i'm just thinking of the desk that the head guy had in "The Island" May 30 20:09:19 Milhouse2: probably better than a public keyboard May 30 20:09:32 Sulis - fair point May 30 20:09:39 Sulis: oh yeah. that was pretty cool May 30 20:09:41 Milhouse2: better than a keyboard (damn you Sulis:) and antibiotic plastic surfaces are an easy trick May 30 20:09:52 pfft I'm thinking LCARS all the way May 30 20:09:53 but I don't often use public keyboard, whereas the surface may become more common place (though I doubt it) May 30 20:10:17 LCARS ooo, good point May 30 20:10:26 I don't think that's a very real life example. I mean, viable real life example. Except for a few korean and taiwanese cafes May 30 20:10:31 Is BillG a Trekie? :) May 30 20:10:53 honestly, restaurants is one of the use cases (read it somewhere - BBC?) May 30 20:11:00 lol, he's like one of the high priests of the temple of nerd! May 30 20:11:20 "Also designed to interact with mobile phones placed on the surface, Microsoft says it will initially sell the unit to corporate customers. May 30 20:11:20 These will include hotels, casinos, phone stores and restaurants." May 30 20:11:40 (c) BBC May 30 20:11:48 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6703249.stm May 30 20:12:25 Surface - the new TabletPC... May 30 20:14:57 I'm an HCI geek. What can I say. May 30 20:14:59 http://users.on.net/~disko/touchbsod.jpg May 30 20:15:42 LCARS + Surface = http://databsod.ytmnd.com/ May 30 20:16:48 Going OT, why haven't Nokia released any devices that charge using inductive coupling? ie. Splashpower? May 30 20:17:02 you just put your phone down on a plate and it begins charging May 30 20:17:40 inductive coupling has massive, massive, issues, I thought? May 30 20:17:43 I think it would cost more than the current rechargers. May 30 20:18:04 I've got an inductively charged electric toothbrush, and it positively glows after a long enough charging session May 30 20:18:23 I thought the issues were solved, there's at least two companies selling it. Don't know the cost, but I suppose it might be expensive to start with (as Bluetooth was initially) May 30 20:19:13 my electrical engineering and electrophysics classes suggest differently :) May 30 20:19:22 Given the convenience factor, and the ability to use a single plate for many devices (ie. actually save on adapters) I'd say it had legs even if there is a cost.. May 30 20:19:52 By the way, did you guys test out the ukmp 1.0 already? If so, any comments? May 30 20:19:59 Well Splashpower reckon they've cracked it, and some other US company too May 30 20:20:04 heh, but knowing all the companies that are making devices, you'd need to have about 10 different plates May 30 20:20:38 Right, but that's where the oppurtunity lies in enforcing a standard while the market is still small May 30 20:20:49 I only know of two players May 30 20:20:53 yeah, also like bluetooth May 30 20:20:58 ...i gues May 30 20:21:00 s May 30 20:21:42 Milhouse2: Have a look at the screenshot and video here: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html May 30 20:21:53 I guess it will need someone big like Nokia to get the ball rolling May 30 20:22:03 Oh, you meant like market players ;) May 30 20:22:07 kontorri - checking... May 30 20:22:49 two players pushing inductive coupling technology - but it will need a big device supplier to get their wares into the market and get it noticed May 30 20:23:14 then everyone will say "hey wow, this is really cool... why aren't Motorola offering this?" May 30 20:23:30 I think Nokia follows it's previous market strategy to not to be the first in the trenches. They do take part in designing stuff, in the standards comities, but they seldom try something as a market first May 30 20:23:30 etc. May 30 20:23:44 Internet Tablets? May 30 20:24:01 But yea, maybe they could try out the water with some luxury model. May 30 20:24:24 iternet tablets are more of a fork than something new May 30 20:24:28 I still have problem understanding that nokia actually made the internet tablets May 30 20:24:43 I actually meant they were first in the trenches with the Internet Tablets, however I suppose you might mean they fear backing the wrong technology (ie. backing Betamax and the world backs VHS) May 30 20:26:39 Well, I mean that they didn't endorse the clam phone model until everyone was doing it, they didn't go for thin models until everyone was doing it and so on. May 30 20:30:41 has someone ever tried those laser projection keyboards? May 30 20:30:59 some people have... they seem to work ok with 770/n800 May 30 20:31:13 I've heard that they don't work at all May 30 20:31:14 I guess they work *only* on flat surface May 30 20:31:34 and even the it's one finger at a time tapping. May 30 20:31:42 Hm. May 30 20:31:52 From what I've understood, it's a nice concept but doesn't work yet May 30 20:31:55 I've tried laser projection keyboards. They're not really good, frankly. May 30 20:32:04 mkey May 30 20:32:14 unfortunatly BT kbs are quite expensive May 30 20:32:15 : May 30 20:32:16 :/ May 30 20:32:19 not so hot on glass tables - probably wouldn't work so well on the Microsoft Surface... ;) May 30 20:32:19 Try tapping on your table surface for five minutes, you'll feel the problem. :) May 30 20:32:28 just buy a foldable kb. they are probably 100$ May 30 20:32:45 Plus there is the problem of having to lift up your finger after each stroke. May 30 20:33:05 People learn to type things like ee without lifting your finger. the laser keyboard sees "e", not "ee". May 30 20:33:56 Surface is kind of interesting. It's mostly exactly like seen a year or so ago already, but there's some new concepts. May 30 20:34:00 roope: did you already have a look at the ukmp video? I would love to hear some comments / critic from you. May 30 20:34:07 Relating to putting your device on there and interacting with it. May 30 20:34:10 * konttori bows to the UI god May 30 20:34:27 let's see. :) May 30 20:34:41 http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukmp-10-outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi.html May 30 20:34:56 i don't like the idea that the surface has to use a camera...it just seems...nasty May 30 20:35:18 Sulis: is MS surface using a cam? May 30 20:35:30 yeah May 30 20:35:55 Almost all of the multitouch solutions are using a cam. May 30 20:35:58 talking about keyboards, is there a word processor I can use if I get one ? May 30 20:35:59 :) May 30 20:36:01 at least the iphone implementation was based on a pressure layer that interacts with light coming from the sides. I wondr why surface isn't using something like that May 30 20:36:04 Big screen ones, that is. May 30 20:36:21 konttori: outhttpwwwbloggercomimggllinkgi? heh May 30 20:36:29 Yeah, that's probably cost effective May 30 20:36:42 yeah. I know. I messed up the post May 30 20:37:01 konttori: patents. :) May 30 20:37:02 And can't fix it anymore. Posted it too many times. I didn't notice that at first May 30 20:37:15 true May 30 20:38:03 konttori: i think that's the nicest media player in maemo currently. :) Canola may have a bit more eyecandy, but it's also slower to use. May 30 20:38:27 Really? do you think so? May 30 20:38:33 roope: yes, ukmp is simpler May 30 20:38:33 was there any playlist functions there? or did you plan some? enqueue some albums up? May 30 20:38:58 of course yours relies quite heavily on like full albums... with album art. May 30 20:38:59 konttori: you should do some tricks to make it load faster May 30 20:39:06 I was planning to add 'partylist' first (enque) and then add playlists. May 30 20:39:08 I have quite much media with improper metadata and possibly no album art. May 30 20:39:08 konttori: or at least "make believe" May 30 20:39:13 canola keeps scanning my music, and that slows my n800 to a crawl May 30 20:39:14 I'm not quite sure how you deal with those. May 30 20:39:29 It loads album art from the internet May 30 20:39:32 konttori: in canola, we do init sdl before any other thing May 30 20:39:40 It doesn't use the id tags album art May 30 20:39:42 Sulis: ? May 30 20:39:52 Sulis: it shouldn't "keep scanning" May 30 20:40:00 Sulis: what's your use case? May 30 20:40:08 konttori: what does it use for a storage backend? May 30 20:40:25 It loads all id tags always on startup May 30 20:40:31 So, it uses internal tables ;) May 30 20:40:38 well it scans every now and then, and every time i turn it on, but i have quite a lot of music and it takes a long time to scan it May 30 20:40:42 Images are cached to mmc May 30 20:41:00 Sulis: there are some gconf parameters you can play with May 30 20:41:08 oh? May 30 20:41:27 Sulis: get gconf-editor and go to /apps/canola-conf May 30 20:41:32 k-s[WORK]: It's only slow on the first load, when it loads the images from the net. Subsequent loads are quite fast May 30 20:41:50 k-s[WORK]: i have that already, will look May 30 20:41:51 konttori: no, I mean, make SDL window appears as soon as possible May 30 20:42:05 konttori: also that mechanism of list item selection by dragging and releasing is very nice. May 30 20:42:18 konttori: for example, canola loads its plugins just after the initial splash is shown May 30 20:42:21 k-s[WORK]: Oh! Well, I'll have a look at the ordering of the init code. thanks for the tip! May 30 20:42:33 konttori: make it start "fast" May 30 20:42:42 konttori: :-) May 30 20:43:13 konttori: btw, thank you to showcase what I keep saying here: python is just good to do this "control" kind of stuff May 30 20:43:27 roope: thanks! I think it's the only way to be able to access smallish segments of the screen with using a finger. May 30 20:43:39 k-s[WORK]: i see what collection-autoscan does, but what would inital_scanner_delay do? May 30 20:43:46 bit bang is in C anyway... no need to count references by hand like we had to do with canola! :-( May 30 20:43:52 Yeah, I absolutely love python. It's really ideal for frontend apps. May 30 20:44:12 Sulis: how many seconds to wait before auto-scan, AFAIR you can make it negative to never auto-scan May 30 20:44:47 konttori: I wrote python bindings for EFL, much easier to work with than SDL May 30 20:44:48 ah, but unsetting collection_autoscan will do that just as well May 30 20:45:19 konttori: now I'm optimizing Evas to run as fast as raw SDL on device... then we can rewrite our apps to use it, I'll keep you informed May 30 20:45:54 Sulis: probably... I don't look at that code for some time... :-P May 30 20:45:56 So, where can I read about the benefits of EFL vs SDL? May 30 20:46:06 konttori: www.enlightenment.org May 30 20:46:21 konttori: special interest for us "eye-candy" apps is use of Edje as theme system May 30 20:46:22 I must admit that I've had not probs with SDL. It's nice to use and fast. May 30 20:46:49 k-s[WORK]: hehe, well i'll try it and see what happens May 30 20:46:50 konttori: it keep track of what changed (pygame.sprite.Group like) May 30 20:47:11 konttori: well, perhaps not the _only_ way, but one very nice way. :) May 30 20:47:28 Sulis: you can also use canola-applet and stop scanning when you want, or write your own dbus-send script May 30 20:48:08 roope: True. Of course there are other possibilities starting with mouse cursor. May 30 20:48:08 k-s[WORK]: yeah, i'm thinking that's a good idea May 30 20:48:33 konttori: does your player make up a readable database of music and id3 tags? May 30 20:48:45 Sulis: you can also stop using web-ui, so any HTTP GET request can do it as well May 30 20:48:52 Sulis: nope. It doesn't store them in any way May 30 20:49:18 k-s[WORK]: EFL does look really nice. Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. May 30 20:50:25 Sulis: Future versions will probably have to use some better form of storage. Maybe sqlite. May 30 20:50:39 entirely off topic: is there some way to bind on to wlan0 getting an IP address? May 30 20:50:43 k-s[WORK]: any HTTP GET request can update the db? May 30 20:50:53 or stop updating the db? May 30 20:50:54 *very easy way that I could put into a shell script. May 30 20:51:19 Sulis: sure! May 30 20:51:35 konttori: http://barbieri-playground.googlecode.com/svn/efl-tests/ May 30 20:52:13 konttori: it's in C so far... but you can get my python-bindings (at enlightenment.org CVS, under e17/proto/python-efl) and do the same May 30 20:52:31 konttori: I also have a project at garage to provide ARMEL binaries as soon as I get reasonable performance May 30 20:53:08 Was MDK:s work using EFL? The video that had some nice GFX ? May 30 20:53:28 Sulis: canola web-ui is basically AJAX, so you can find out all the URLs and methods to request this May 30 20:53:49 konttori: no, his "graffi" (or something like this) is another thing, I've not seen any code yet May 30 20:54:00 k-s[WORK]: Makes sense to wait until optimized far enough. Will they be big libs? As in total filesize and memory footprint. May 30 20:54:17 konttori: evas is really fast on PC... but it's 32bpp internally and need to do the conversion, I'm working on this... May 30 20:54:19 k-s[WORK]: Oh, so it's nokia internal thing. Looked interesting though May 30 20:54:38 konttori: no, whole lib set is under 1mb (uncompressed disk size) May 30 20:54:48 konttori: yes, mdk work seems nice May 30 20:54:56 k-s[WORK]: ah, i might look at that then... May 30 20:55:05 so, that includes edje and etk and other stuff as well? May 30 20:55:20 konttori: EFL have good code to load images, it's possible to load already doing scale... for image thumbnails May 30 20:55:31 really nice! May 30 20:55:35 konttori: just edje, no etk as I don't plan to use it May 30 20:55:46 k-s[WORK]: does canola store it's db in a way that i can read it? sqlite or something? May 30 20:55:47 ok. makes sense. May 30 20:55:48 etk is not big by itself, but its themes may add some footprint May 30 20:56:04 isn't canola using sqlite? May 30 20:56:09 Sulis: sqlite, under /home/user/.canola/canola.db May 30 20:57:03 konttori: great thing with etk is that you can embed that gtk-like UI inside your beauty app, with effects... so your form just fade-in/out, or slide, without problem May 30 20:57:06 hmmm, i'm just wondering if i could use that to do something else that i've been looking to do May 30 20:57:14 Sulis: what? May 30 20:57:52 well i want to have something that will sync the music that i want from my main computer onto my n800 over the network May 30 20:58:13 Sulis: fine May 30 20:58:26 rb does that... :( May 30 20:58:29 k-s[WORK]: really? nice. is it hard to convert gtk forms to etk? May 30 20:58:51 Sulis: canola-conf will process and execute any query that is stored on /media/mmc1/.canola.db, backlog table May 30 20:59:04 konttori: no! it actually loads GLADE :-P May 30 20:59:08 Sulis: you mean like a upnp? May 30 20:59:19 cool! May 30 20:59:32 konttori: no, not like a upnp May 30 20:59:52 :wa May 30 20:59:56 damn May 30 21:00:10 upnp can also send / receive music files (not only stream them). May 30 21:00:12 time to go home May 30 21:00:27 hmm, really May 30 21:01:23 Sulis: are you thinking in some kind of rsync to media files? May 30 21:01:53 Sulis: if you want to use via USB instead of network, you can just write SQL queries in "backlog" table and they'll be executed in order May 30 21:02:30 Sulis: otherwise you can use rsync, upnp or something else... hardly anything will beat rsync in performance, but you still need to trigger rescan May 30 21:02:54 k-s[WORK]: Did you read this? http://www.vergenet.net/~raster/ May 30 21:02:59 Sulis: I provide some scripts with canola-conf, they are prefixed with (guess what) canola-conf :-P May 30 21:03:12 Looks like it's hard to optimize for 16 bit. May 30 21:03:14 k-s[WORK]: yeah, i've noticed them May 30 21:03:31 konttori: sure, I'm talking with raster... on a daily basis :-) May 30 21:03:41 konttori: we're trying to get the man working here at INdT May 30 21:03:49 konttori, x, y is not use... May 30 21:03:51 Does he live around? May 30 21:04:01 i think they go by bounds...not sure what this is.. May 30 21:04:15 konttori: no, he lives in Japan today May 30 21:04:31 All right! Interesting! May 30 21:04:47 what i really want to do it have a database of everything all the music on my main computer on my n800 and vice versa, so i can just select what i want to transfer the next time they're on the network together May 30 21:05:20 don't think the nick N800 is a good idea.. May 30 21:05:25 ah, ok May 30 21:05:30 xchat glows when someone says n800 May 30 21:05:31 lol May 30 21:05:49 konttori this is unique311 May 30 21:05:55 i pm'ed you May 30 21:22:41 Hi to all ... May 30 21:22:52 hi to one May 30 22:02:29 maemo.org down ? May 30 22:02:39 just veery slow May 30 22:02:57 i'm reaaaaaly far from the server then :D May 30 22:07:51 hmm.. is just a week that I uploaded a deb to the maemo repo... still does not appear in the app manager... very strange... May 31 01:59:35 Anybody know how tolerant the N800 power supply is of voltage variations? May 31 02:00:11 I'm thinking of making a ten hour battery pack out of a set of four 4500 mAh NiMH batteries. May 31 02:02:00 that plus a bit of shapelock will make me an N800 which is about 2" thick and runs all day long. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 31 02:59:56 2007