**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 20 02:59:58 2007
Jun 20 03:54:20 * cesman_away is back.
Jun 20 04:23:26 <cesman> hello hello
Jun 20 04:23:33 <cesman> any maemo mapper users around?
Jun 20 04:23:55 <cesman> When I download a route, I cannot see it unless I zoom out
Jun 20 04:24:09 <cesman> the is it basically lines criss-crossing the globe
Jun 20 04:24:25 <cesman> distance to end of the route is almost 2 million miles!
Jun 20 04:24:31 <cesman> anyone else seeing this?!
Jun 20 07:16:49 <cesman> Gizmo on the N800 is F'n cool!
Jun 20 07:22:42 * cesman is away: Gone away for now.
Jun 20 07:52:48 <pello> ih
Jun 20 07:53:02 <pello> do you know if there is a french maemo channel on frenode?
Jun 20 07:57:41 <melmoth> pello: not that i am aware of
Jun 20 07:59:21 <pello> ack melmoth
Jun 20 07:59:40 <melmoth> pello do you need help in french ?
Jun 20 07:59:53 <melmoth> i dont know maemo super well, but i know french :)
Jun 20 08:00:13 <pello> pas pour l'instant j'ai commande le n800 ce matin, je visite les sites communautaires
Jun 20 08:01:44 <pello> ha si tiens y a de la doc pour porter une appli sous mameo ?
Jun 20 08:02:02 <pello> c'est bon j'ai trouve
Jun 20 08:02:04 <pello> arf
Jun 20 08:02:06 <melmoth> :)
Jun 20 08:15:35 <sbaturzio> Aloha!
Jun 20 08:20:21 <Jaffa> Moning, all
Jun 20 08:23:45 <greedo> morning
Jun 20 08:28:29 <konttori> Nice size comparison photo of foleo and n800: http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/foleo-live-6-S.jpg
Jun 20 08:51:52 <mk8> Hi to all ...
Jun 20 09:07:11 <Juhaz> heh
Jun 20 09:07:34 <Juhaz> that thing is huge, why would anyone carry one instead of small laptop?
Jun 20 09:10:48 <`0660> probably only the ones who cannot afford a proper laptop
Jun 20 09:12:06 <Fatal> wow, I thought it was smaller
Jun 20 09:19:42 <gla55> huh it's _that_ big???
Jun 20 09:21:58 <[Pinguozz]> sbaturzio, hola!
Jun 20 09:22:26 <sbaturzio> [Pinguozz]: Ciao
Jun 20 09:27:04 <konttori> Yeah, much bigger than I thought as well. OTOH keyboard does take space if you want it to be really usable.
Jun 20 09:27:29 <konttori> still, otoh, psion 5 had quite good kb and it was the size of n800.
Jun 20 09:27:39 <konttori> slighly wider though
Jun 20 09:37:51 <pna_> hi inz did you find how to fix the keyboard under sardine?
Jun 20 09:44:55 <Jari--> Anyone have experience with custom widgets? I am building one.
Jun 20 10:15:57 <konttori> UKMP 1.3 out now!
Jun 20 10:16:17 <konttori> Changes and short vide on: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/06/ukmp-13.html
Jun 20 10:17:07 <konttori> As always accompanied by amateur speaker yours truly
Jun 20 10:19:53 * konttori added install link to the blog
Jun 20 10:41:07 <gwak> does anybody know in which thread on internettablettalk 'Texrat' dropped his hint?
Jun 20 10:41:17 <konttori> what hint?
Jun 20 10:41:28 <gwak> i am reading this thread
Jun 20 10:41:31 <gwak> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6851&page=7
Jun 20 10:42:55 <konttori> no idea.
Jun 20 10:43:11 <konttori> Is there an official word on firmware update release?
Jun 20 10:43:23 <konttori> as in when it's going to happen.
Jun 20 10:43:39 <gwak> not that i have seen, but people on the thread think it is close
Jun 20 10:44:03 <konttori> Just interested in knowing if it will break application compatibility (like python and from that ukmp)
Jun 20 10:45:02 <gwak> lets hope no APIs will be broken
Jun 20 10:48:01 <konttori> Now that's finally an improved interface for nokia devices: http://www.slashphone.com/64/7496.html
Jun 20 10:48:18 <konttori> Smooth. nice.  look at the video
Jun 20 10:49:38 <konttori> many good ideas there.
Jun 20 10:50:03 <konttori> Would need to test it first hand to really say if that works properly, but it looks like it might be a good interface for a phone.
Jun 20 10:51:37 <gla55> dunno
Jun 20 10:52:53 <gla55> it doesn't look like a "interface for a phone" anyways, it's not..  more like a fancy rss reader
Jun 20 10:53:10 <gwak> i like the touchless aspect of NSeries beta video
Jun 20 10:53:13 <gla55> the video is really shitty quality
Jun 20 10:53:15 <konttori> ahh... true.
Jun 20 10:53:21 <gla55> touchless?
Jun 20 10:53:30 <gwak> not using the touch screen,
Jun 20 10:53:35 <gla55> not using?
Jun 20 10:53:35 <gwak> if there is one ;-]
Jun 20 10:53:39 <gla55> there isn't.
Jun 20 10:54:05 <gla55> the demoer shows his thumb on the screen for some reasons from time to time
Jun 20 10:55:40 <gla55> but the video is shot with something that makes the screen look like total crap
Jun 20 10:58:55 <gla55>  http://www.nokia.fr/A4403936
Jun 20 10:59:05 <gla55> so very french to do something french only
Jun 20 11:00:10 <Efrael> All biggest european countries do that
Jun 20 11:01:07 <gwak> the menu structure is almost like a larger version of the pre symbian phones
Jun 20 11:02:25 <konttori> By the way, here is a direct link to the ukmp 1.3 new features video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfE5FMREHQ8
Jun 20 11:06:32 <gwak> konttori: looks great, i will give it a try tonight
Jun 20 11:07:11 <konttori> Thanks! Black theme looks much better, but the light theme is more usable while you are outside.
Jun 20 11:07:44 <gwak> you did all that in python?
Jun 20 11:07:50 <konttori> yeah
Jun 20 11:08:01 <konttori> I'm really pleased that it now includes all 'easy' functionality.
Jun 20 11:08:23 <konttori> that's my hello world python app
Jun 20 11:08:38 <gwak> a bit of feature creep for your helloworld app,
Jun 20 11:09:09 <konttori> well, I don't think making a test app really makes sense if you want to learn something new.
Jun 20 11:09:19 <konttori> Best way is to set a nice bar and aim for it.
Jun 20 11:09:36 <gwak> i agree, and its ment to be fun right ;-]
Jun 20 11:09:45 <melmoth> i want a real time kernel in python :)
Jun 20 11:10:12 <konttori> I had to lower the bar a bit because of time constraints, but I think that the basic app is nice (I wanted to include images and video as well - perhaps for the 2.0 version then)
Jun 20 11:10:47 <gwak> konttorie: would it be possible to add daap / upnp support?
Jun 20 11:11:10 <konttori> Yeah. I'm actually working on that with coherence guys.
Jun 20 11:11:17 <konttori> That's a branch project.
Jun 20 11:12:11 <konttori> I'm very certain that the upnp is completely doable, the only thing I am sorry about is that the coherence package is so huge at the moment. But they are working to drop unnecessary dependencies from it.
Jun 20 11:12:20 <gwak> i tried Canola, and while very slick the non OS license put me off a bit
Jun 20 11:12:35 <konttori> it's non OS? Really? shame.
Jun 20 11:12:41 <gwak> and it did not read my daap share
Jun 20 11:13:26 <konttori> It would be really simple for me to include daap support. I might do that for the mainstream version by default.
Jun 20 11:13:29 <MoRpHeUz> gwak, konttori: they are working on that (OS)
Jun 20 11:13:39 <konttori> I thought so too.
Jun 20 11:14:02 <konttori> I just thought that they had already completed the OS part
Jun 20 11:14:16 <MoRpHeUz> konttori, gwak: the problem with daap is the new version of itunes..nobody until now could reverse engineer it.. =(
Jun 20 11:14:26 <MoRpHeUz> konttori: yeah..it's a big fight with lawyers...
Jun 20 11:14:34 <gwak> MoR: im using a daapd server not itunes
Jun 20 11:14:46 <konttori> yeah. OTOH, there are good alternative daap servers out there as well.
Jun 20 11:14:49 <MoRpHeUz> gwak: hhmm..
Jun 20 11:15:08 <gwak> Morp:it sees the archive 10K files, but fails to play
Jun 20 11:15:49 <MoRpHeUz> gwak: try to open a bug on it's bugzilla!
Jun 20 11:16:06 <MoRpHeUz> as far as I know it should work...
Jun 20 11:29:37 <gwak> MoR: i hacked the Firefly server a bit , so some of the meta information sent to the client might be diffrent then the actual file delivered to the client .
Jun 20 11:33:14 <konttori> Hey, does anyone know how large is the n800 userbase compared to 770. Or absolute userbase of either of them
Jun 20 11:35:32 <gwak> maybe you could track some key downloads from the maemo.org site
Jun 20 11:47:57 <konttori> gwak: I don't think that's a good way of knowing it, as not everyone even knows how to go to downloads.maemo.org.
Jun 20 12:28:36 <gwak> cool multi-touch demo
Jun 20 12:28:38 <gwak> http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Gottabemobile/~3/126380702/MultiTouchOffTheTableAndOntoTheLaptop.aspx
Jun 20 12:48:06 <aslakjo> hi, i'm trying to search for more people that is experiencing sudden reboots on the N770 possibly by high CPU load. If some one can give me soms pointers it would be nice...
Jun 20 13:02:00 <ScoobyCE> hi all, anyone here clued up on cairo? I need someone who's run it on a mobile platform like wince
Jun 20 13:03:44 <X-Fade> ScoobyCE: It runs on a mobile platform like ... maemo :)
Jun 20 13:05:06 <ScoobyCE> ah right, well in that case im in the right place :)
Jun 20 13:05:42 <Pierre> ScoobyCE: a better place than #wince ;-)
Jun 20 13:05:51 <ScoobyCE> X-Fade: do you know if it runs on wince
Jun 20 13:06:09 <ScoobyCE> im struggling to get font/text support running :/
Jun 20 13:06:58 <ScoobyCE> ive ported fontconfig and freetype but cairo doesnt want to render...do you know personally...or know anyone here whos jacked?
Jun 20 13:07:07 <X-Fade> It should run on wince.. But I don't think you'll find many experts for that on this channel.
Jun 20 13:07:26 <gwak> how different is the wince API from win32?
Jun 20 13:07:39 <ScoobyCE> similar but different and limited in places
Jun 20 13:07:40 <Pierre> #cairo would be better, and to check if the win32 backends actually supports the wince specific bmp formats (afair it can be tricky)
Jun 20 13:07:59 <X-Fade> ScoobyCE: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/tor/archives/2005/04/
Jun 20 13:08:05 <ScoobyCE> the win32 backend doesnt, but the freetype backend should work
Jun 20 13:08:52 <ScoobyCE> nobody is in #cairo atm, someone there suggested i try here :)
Jun 20 13:09:03 <ScoobyCE> i can get cairo rendering stuff...but its just the fonts that are giving me trouble
Jun 20 13:09:05 <Pierre> I did, was not that wise :)
Jun 20 13:09:14 <ScoobyCE> hehe
Jun 20 13:09:30 <Pierre> well, you can switch to maemo :)
Jun 20 13:10:16 <ScoobyCE> from the link you sent me:
Jun 20 13:10:17 <ScoobyCE> This is running on WinCE using the cairo backend. SVG text is disabled as CE's GDI doesn't seem capable enough for the cairo win32 font backend.
Jun 20 13:10:19 <ScoobyCE> :'((
Jun 20 13:10:58 <ScoobyCE> there must be a way...doesnt make sense!
Jun 20 13:11:01 <Pierre> have you succeeded to run cairo-ft on win32?
Jun 20 13:11:07 <ScoobyCE> yes
Jun 20 13:11:15 <ScoobyCE> well...not exactly
Jun 20 13:11:27 <ScoobyCE> but i can render fonts through cairo in win32
Jun 20 13:11:48 <Pierre> question is: can you render fonts on win32 without the win32 backend
Jun 20 13:12:18 <Pierre> if you succeeded, then it should work (even slowly) on wince
Jun 20 13:12:25 <ScoobyCE> i had a similar idea the other day and started rebuilding my project to try exactly that...but its such a hassle that im trying everything else first
Jun 20 13:12:29 <Pierre> as long as you have the required deps installed and running
Jun 20 13:12:46 <ScoobyCE> the thing is, wince doesnt have the same font capabilities at win32
Jun 20 13:12:51 <Pierre> it is not that hard to compile cairo on windows and enable freetype+co
Jun 20 13:13:15 <Pierre> ScoobyCE: the freetype backend has nothing to do with GDI capabilities, it is pure cairo only rendering
Jun 20 13:14:11 <ScoobyCE> so youre suggesting that if i can get the FT backend working under win32 then theoretically it should also work under ce?
Jun 20 13:14:29 <Pierre> yes, as long as you can compile freetype+fontconfig+cairo for wince
Jun 20 13:14:46 <ScoobyCE> i can, but with quite a few modifications
Jun 20 13:15:30 <ScoobyCE> some of which may be where my problem lies...a lot of the directory/path manipulation stuff ive had to rewrite
Jun 20 13:15:34 <Pierre> I did not try with latest but I did some work with 1.3 (dev tree for 1.4),  http://blog.thepimp.net/misc/cairowin32/
Jun 20 13:15:40 <Pierre> it may help (no cygwin crap)
Jun 20 13:16:10 <Pierre> but I fear that it is slightly OT here :P
Jun 20 13:16:18 <ScoobyCE> hehe
Jun 20 13:16:22 <Pierre> (besides that #maemo rocks and ce is a pain :)
Jun 20 13:17:04 <ScoobyCE> im using visual studio atm....i cant make any changes at this point, im stuck with wince, this is only a small part of the app im working on
Jun 20 13:17:32 <ScoobyCE> ultimately i actually need to render svg images with text...i can render normal svg images, but not text
Jun 20 13:18:00 <Pierre> the link above may help then, "only" need to update the scripts to take care of the 1.4 changes. It supports VC cmd line tools natively (nmake and sdk)
Jun 20 13:18:56 <Pierre> or cross compile it with the help of cygwin+mingw, but I never tried this way, too hackish for me :)
Jun 20 13:19:18 <ScoobyCE> yeah ive been down that road, i dont think thats the way forward for me :/
Jun 20 13:19:54 <ScoobyCE> the link you sent doesnt deal with ce though does it?
Jun 20 13:20:19 <Pierre> not exactly, it deals with VC tools
Jun 20 13:20:31 <Pierre> it lets you build cairo using VC only
Jun 20 13:22:16 <ScoobyCE> suits me
Jun 20 13:22:26 <ScoobyCE> will give it a try ta for the help
Jun 20 13:22:51 <ScoobyCE> is cworth the guy who wrote cairo?
Jun 20 13:24:03 <Pierre> he is one of the authors yes
Jun 20 13:24:09 <Pierre> bbi5
Jun 20 13:48:07 <livingtm> Are there c++ bindings available for the N770?
Jun 20 13:48:56 <livingtm> It seems as though they are only available for Bora, but as far as I can see i cant run bora on my 770
Jun 20 13:51:43 <X-Fade> livingtm: Well, you can run the OS2007 - hacker edition on your Nokia 770.
Jun 20 13:51:54 <livingtm> OS2007 = bora?
Jun 20 13:52:08 <X-Fade> yep.
Jun 20 13:52:58 <X-Fade> http://os2007on770.garage.maemo.org/
Jun 20 13:53:50 <livingtm> Is this legit? http://www.mulliner.org/nokia770/
Jun 20 13:55:14 <X-Fade> Why not?
Jun 20 13:55:33 <livingtm> No way of knowing either way
Jun 20 13:56:30 <X-Fade> Well, no but that is with all packages you download from the web..
Jun 20 13:58:14 <livingtm> I just have trouble following whats official, whats not, etc
Jun 20 13:58:48 <livingtm> No reason i cant flash back to 2006 if 2007 turns out to be less stable than i would like?
Jun 20 13:59:07 <X-Fade> You can always flash an older image. No problem.
Jun 20 14:03:44 <gleitz> hi all
Jun 20 14:03:59 <gleitz> from the command line, how can i renew my ip address? ifup wlan0 doesn't seem to work
Jun 20 14:07:27 <ScoobyCE> ipconfig /renew? :P
Jun 20 14:07:49 <gleitz> heh, nice try
Jun 20 14:08:03 <gleitz> dhcpcd isn't installed either, so the releasing is weird
Jun 20 14:08:50 <ScoobyCE> try ifdown then ifup
Jun 20 14:09:16 <ScoobyCE> or rcnetwork restart
Jun 20 14:09:51 <gleitz> rcnetwork not found, ifdown and ifup are there
Jun 20 14:10:12 <gleitz> but the decive wlan0 is an "unkown interface"
Jun 20 14:10:36 <gleitz> even though ifconfig says its there
Jun 20 14:10:45 <gleitz> :/
Jun 20 14:11:15 <ScoobyCE> how about ifconfig wlan0 up/down
Jun 20 14:11:18 <geaaru_> hi at all, any news for hildon-input-method for sardine? anyone use keyboard corretly with sardine?
Jun 20 14:11:58 <gleitz> that did it
Jun 20 14:12:03 <ScoobyCE> k :)
Jun 20 14:12:11 <gleitz> it got the same ip but i bet if i was on the move it would renew
Jun 20 14:12:18 <ScoobyCE> most likely
Jun 20 14:12:18 <gleitz> thx scooby
Jun 20 14:12:23 <ScoobyCE> np
Jun 20 14:26:45 <livingtm> X-Fade, Do you know if i can upgrade my scratchbox install to bora?
Jun 20 14:27:21 <sebbarre> hi guys. I'm trying to understand D-BUS on the N800, and in particular, trying to introspect the D-BUS methods the web browser (com.nokia.osso_browser) can support. Without success so far...
Jun 20 14:28:28 <sebbarre> any D-Bus gurus in the house :) ?
Jun 20 14:29:08 <hap> aynone knows how to put e17 on n800 ?
Jun 20 14:36:29 <Blacksitox> hi
Jun 20 14:36:54 <gwak> sebbaree:if you have not already, you can try snooping with dbus-monitor
Jun 20 14:38:25 <sebbarre> I tried already, snooping --system, but without much result
Jun 20 14:38:43 <sebbarre> documentation is kinda sparse
Jun 20 14:44:28 <VimSi> does somebody know, if theres a webmail-notifier for the 770 like the is for the n800? :)
Jun 20 14:45:12 <sebbarre> gawk: something like that should have worked I thought: dbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser /com/nokia/osso_browser org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect
Jun 20 14:45:56 <gwak> i think the Interospecting stuff is still a work in progress, but in not 100% sure about that
Jun 20 14:49:19 <sebbarre> now is the osso_browser DBUS API documented somewhere? as an XML file? hidden in the binary code? because I know you can certainly open a URL using dbus-send, but I'm trying something else, discovering the URL of the currently opened web windows...
Jun 20 14:50:15 <gwak> sebbarre:i think you need access to the source
Jun 20 14:50:38 <sebbarre> gwak: which, for opera, is pretty much a no-no.
Jun 20 14:51:57 <gwak> sebbare: does the Introspect call return anything?
Jun 20 14:52:31 <sebbarre> yeah: method return sender=:1.81 -> dest=:1.80
Jun 20 14:52:31 <sebbarre> string "<!DOCTYPE node PUBLIC "-//freedesktop//DTD D-BUS Object Introspection 1
Jun 20 14:52:31 <sebbarre> .0//EN"
Jun 20 14:52:31 <sebbarre> "http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/dbus/1.0/introspect.dtd">
Jun 20 14:52:31 <sebbarre> <node>
Jun 20 14:52:32 <sebbarre> </node>
Jun 20 14:52:34 <sebbarre> "
Jun 20 14:53:17 <sebbarre> but it's not clean I'm talking to the right port/bus. I tried introspecting a lot more programs, and they always return that "empty" result.
Jun 20 14:53:25 <mlpug-> I have xterm in my n800. Can i have (in my n800 or elsewhere) man pages of that very same shell/busybox so that "see also" entries refer to other commands/man pages that are supported in this same n800.
Jun 20 14:53:27 <sebbarre> clean = clear.
Jun 20 14:57:43 <sebbarre> easier one: how can I start a shell script from an icon on the desktop?
Jun 20 15:32:27 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch
Jun 20 15:41:11 <livingtm> how do I upgrade scratchbox environment for maemo 2.2 to maemo 3.1?
Jun 20 15:41:28 <livingtm> the 3.1 install script says it cant upgrade
Jun 20 15:42:42 <Knowledge> Maemo 3.1?
Jun 20 15:43:08 <livingtm> bora
Jun 20 15:43:11 <Knowledge> wait...what version is my n800 supposed to be at right now?
Jun 20 15:43:13 <Knowledge> oh I see..
Jun 20 15:43:29 <livingtm> 3.0 i guess
Jun 20 15:43:57 <livingtm> I was developing for my n770 on OS2006 and i'd like to move to os2007
Jun 20 15:45:16 <livingtm> Do i just need to install the new rootstrap?
Jun 20 15:46:10 <livingtm> Maybe then just setup new 3.0 targets....
Jun 20 15:46:59 <livingtm> just thinking outloud, if im way off someone please speak up :-)
Jun 20 15:54:13 <livingtm> The installation instructions for bora dont tell me how to get from a 2.2 to bora. they only describe a clean install
Jun 20 15:54:30 <livingtm> the install scripts fail
Jun 20 16:06:57 <konttori> Is there some interface in youtube where you can access the h264 version of the content?
Jun 20 16:07:55 <gla55> afaik no.
Jun 20 16:08:19 <gla55> stage6 is better in that aspect.. as you can get high quality .divx
Jun 20 16:18:28 <konttori> Hey, any chance of adding this functionality to mplayer: http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/MPlayer-Youtube-Video-Streamer-24597.shtml
Jun 20 16:19:10 <konttori> basically adds support to just copy paste the youtube web page to mplayer and it'll take out the flash video and play that (and stream it, not dl to disk)
Jun 20 16:19:43 <konttori> would kind of make youtube videos watchable.
Jun 20 16:20:58 <konttori> ahh... nice. it's just a python script
Jun 20 16:22:35 <gla55> looks nice
Jun 20 16:23:34 <konttori> it should be very nice and relatively easy to make a larger app that would allow you to login to your youtube account and watch all your bookmarked clips.
Jun 20 16:23:53 <konttori> as well as watch youtube channels.
Jun 20 16:24:25 <konttori> Now, if I had any free time in my hands, I would do it immediately.
Jun 20 16:25:35 <konttori> Because with that interface, N800 would be seriously powerfull video viewer.
Jun 20 16:26:08 <konttori> I would make it with the ukmp UI probably myself, but that's just my preference. Would probably make sense to quickly make it a gtk app.
Jun 20 16:26:53 <konttori> anyone interested? That script is GPL and consists of one file. Eternal fame and glory awaits the maker.
Jun 20 16:27:56 <melmoth> i dont even have a youtube login :)
Jun 20 16:27:59 <konttori> would be also very cool to make that happen before iphone is out
Jun 20 16:28:26 <konttori> well, you could have a paste youtube url field as the first step.
Jun 20 16:33:40 <konttori> ahh... nice. it seems to work.
Jun 20 16:33:50 <konttori> although, it does require the video to be downloaded
Jun 20 16:34:01 <unique311> pose... is looking good...
Jun 20 16:34:12 <konttori> so, it's not instantaneous.
Jun 20 16:34:17 <konttori> really? great!
Jun 20 16:34:28 <konttori> were you able to flip the screen already=
Jun 20 16:35:01 <unique311> i figured out how to how to move things arounds...
Jun 20 16:35:09 <unique311> worked on a nice skin...
Jun 20 16:35:14 <unique311> mapping the buttons now..
Jun 20 16:35:14 <konttori> great!
Jun 20 16:35:19 <konttori> good!
Jun 20 16:35:46 <unique311> http://www.divshare.com/download/1015016-b13
Jun 20 16:36:10 <unique311> heres the skin i'm going to use..
Jun 20 16:36:24 <unique311> mapping the buttons might take a couple of days..
Jun 20 16:36:49 <unique311> no flipping screen required...
Jun 20 16:36:56 <unique311> just move the screen...
Jun 20 16:37:07 <unique311> draw a new skin
Jun 20 16:37:14 <unique311> and place buttons elsewhere...
Jun 20 16:37:18 <unique311> and then map them..
Jun 20 16:37:34 <unique311> the jpg should give you an idea
Jun 20 16:38:26 * k-s[WORK] is back.
Jun 20 16:41:27 <konttori> why did you tar that jpg?
Jun 20 16:41:52 <unique311> so it wouldn't add a dot in front...
Jun 20 16:41:55 <unique311> long story..
Jun 20 16:42:25 <unique311> divshare adds a . to files uploaded that are not compress
Jun 20 16:42:34 <konttori> looks nice anyway
Jun 20 16:42:42 <unique311> but not sure if it does it with pics...
Jun 20 16:42:43 <unique311> lol
Jun 20 16:43:56 <unique311> still don't know how the coordinates work..just trying numbers...and see if it lines up...
Jun 20 16:46:01 <konttori> I'll make a youtube player tonight. About time someone did it.
Jun 20 16:46:27 <konttori> Can't stand the fact that such a powerfull device isn't web 2.0 compatible in any real way.
Jun 20 16:46:31 <unique311> whats maemotube?
Jun 20 16:53:51 <ebowden> Anyone available to answer a newbie question about compiling for the Nokia N770?
Jun 20 16:56:02 <ebowden> Allo?
Jun 20 17:00:04 <Juhaz> maybe someone is, maybe not, try asking the question
Jun 20 17:00:12 <ebowden> Okay
Jun 20 17:02:38 <ebowden> I tried compiling the Maemopad app for the Nokia N770 (I'm using debian, Maemo SDK 2.2) under my ARM target as specified by the tutorial.  It runs just fine on the host (i.e., through the Xserver), but whenever I try to install the deb package onto the N770 (which has the latest 2006 OS) it says"unable to install, incompatible package"
Jun 20 17:02:45 <ebowden> I'm trying to install from the SD Card.
Jun 20 17:03:20 <ebowden> As an aside, I noticed that the deb package that gets built is for the arm architecture, and not the armel arch.  Would that have anything to do with it?
Jun 20 17:06:19 <etrunko> ebowden: seems you've messed something while creating your target
Jun 20 17:06:34 <ebowden> Just some additional info: my current scratchbox target is setup using cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm, devkits cputransp, debian-sarge, perl doctools, w/ cpu-transp set to qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2
Jun 20 17:06:40 <etrunko> have you chosen the cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm  compiler?
Jun 20 17:06:42 <ebowden> Possible
Jun 20 17:06:48 <ebowden> yup
Jun 20 17:06:50 <etrunko> yup
Jun 20 17:07:15 <ebowden> And I did unpack the armel rootstrap
Jun 20 17:07:20 <suihkulokki> ebowden: do NOT select debian-sarge devkit for maemo development
Jun 20 17:07:21 <ebowden> (2.2)
Jun 20 17:07:33 <ebowden> Okay, which one do I choose?
Jun 20 17:07:33 <etrunko> muust be the qemu
Jun 20 17:07:43 <ebowden> I didn't see a qemu devkit
Jun 20 17:07:51 <ebowden> Let me run through the sb-menu again really quick
Jun 20 17:08:04 <suihkulokki> no, qemu qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2 is okay
Jun 20 17:08:25 <suihkulokki> sarge version on dpkg does not have armel support - select only the regular debian devkit
Jun 20 17:09:24 <ebowden> Okay, the debian devkit I downloaded (using apt) gave me debian-sarge debian-etch and debian-lenny (which requires debian-etch).  I don't see a plain debian
Jun 20 17:10:41 <ebowden> (The package name was scratchbox-devkit-debian)
Jun 20 17:11:17 <ebowden> Should I use etch instead?
Jun 20 17:12:47 <ebowden> Yup that did it
Jun 20 17:13:00 <ebowden> I need to select debian-etch as the devkit
Jun 20 17:13:11 <ebowden> to get it to compile as armel
Jun 20 17:13:46 <ebowden> Now to see if it runs on the N770
Jun 20 17:16:42 <ebowden> Woo hoo, it works!  Thanks suihkulokki and etrunko, I appreciate the help.
Jun 20 17:16:48 <etrunko> ebowden: np
Jun 20 18:03:57 <trevarthan> does anyone know if there is a gst software (read: *not* dsp) mp3 decoder available? I need something similar to ivorbisdec but for mp3s.
Jun 20 18:09:34 <trevarthan> I guess I need gst-inspect on my n800....
Jun 20 18:13:22 <dev> trevarthan: libmad or the one from Fluendo
Jun 20 18:14:09 <dev> trevarthan: probably no ports for Maemo yet
Jun 20 18:25:20 <trevarthan> dev: I've got gst-inspect now... I wonder if I could use ffmpeg for mp3 decoding?
Jun 20 18:26:18 <dev> ah, right, that one I forgot
Jun 20 18:28:13 <dev> trevarthan: on what OS?
Jun 20 18:29:16 <trevarthan> 2007
Jun 20 18:30:31 <dev> ok, on Maemo, I don't know if there is any other gst plugin for mp3 decoding than the dsp one
Jun 20 18:34:40 <trevarthan> mmm... guess I'll have to cross compile one then
Jun 20 18:39:01 <trevarthan> dev: looks like there isn't an alsasink either... ugh.
Jun 20 18:43:00 * thoughtfix sits and thinks.
Jun 20 18:45:54 <trevarthan> I've got all of this working with mplayer, so maybe I should just use mplayer....
Jun 20 18:46:06 <trevarthan> write a python frontend for mplayer, I mean.
Jun 20 18:47:43 <thoughtfix> Hmm
Jun 20 18:47:51 <thoughtfix> has anyone considered "rolling their own firmware?"
Jun 20 18:48:08 <trevarthan> I think a lot of people have.
Jun 20 18:48:26 <thoughtfix> I think it'd help 770 owners a great deal.
Jun 20 18:48:29 <trevarthan> pancake, in particular, comes to mind. He wrote 0xFFFF.
Jun 20 18:48:32 <X-Fade> thoughtfix: That wouldn't be of much use.. As it would not be fully functional..
Jun 20 18:49:13 <X-Fade> You aren't allowed to redistribute a lot of programs in the image.
Jun 20 18:50:16 <thoughtfix> yHmm
Jun 20 18:50:48 <thoughtfix> Good point. :(
Jun 20 18:50:48 <thoughtfix> I remember when the Sharp Zaurus fans got together and made OpenZaurus
Jun 20 18:51:14 <X-Fade> I have been thinking about a script that extracts things from the customer image and construct a new one with additional components..
Jun 20 18:51:24 <X-Fade> That should be allowed..
Jun 20 18:51:25 <thoughtfix> That's what OpenZaurus did
Jun 20 18:51:37 <gla55> that would sound nice
Jun 20 18:51:45 <zyxulnaga> thoughtfix: I have
Jun 20 18:51:49 <thoughtfix> Let the customer pull their packages, save them locally, then reinstall
Jun 20 18:52:19 <X-Fade> thoughtfix: Or even better. Create a repository and 'apt-get dist-upgrade' :)
Jun 20 18:52:26 <zyxulnaga> I tried to create my own rootfs but it didnt work
Jun 20 18:52:39 <trevarthan> Is hildon open source?
Jun 20 18:52:40 <zyxulnaga> the device didn't boot so I didn't bother debugging it further
Jun 20 18:52:49 <X-Fade> trevarthan: Hildon is open..
Jun 20 18:52:54 <trevarthan> That's the biggest issue, IMO. Hildon.
Jun 20 18:53:16 <trevarthan> I don't even really use any of the nokia apps, other than the video dsp decoder.
Jun 20 18:53:18 <X-Fade> trevarthan: No.. It is drivers and all non-gpl stuff.
Jun 20 18:53:37 <zyxulnaga> I just tried doing a tar of the root and then restoring it through jffs
Jun 20 18:53:43 <zyxulnaga> flash
Jun 20 18:53:45 <zyxulnaga> no success
Jun 20 18:53:59 <X-Fade> zyxulnaga: Did that many times.. That is easy..
Jun 20 18:54:09 <X-Fade> Just follow the boot from mmc tutorials..
Jun 20 18:54:22 <zyxulnaga> mmc tutorials?
Jun 20 18:54:48 <zyxulnaga> I mean restoring the whole system
Jun 20 18:54:53 <zyxulnaga> with your own applications and stuff
Jun 20 18:54:56 <X-Fade> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Boot_From_MMC_card
Jun 20 18:56:01 <X-Fade> Yeah, that clones the root fs.. And then you can trick that one out. Boot back to your original OS and tar your tricked OS?
Jun 20 18:56:01 <zyxulnaga> don't you need to have an mmc card for that?
Jun 20 18:56:23 <X-Fade> zyxulnaga: Yeah, so? They are cheaper than a burger ;)
Jun 20 18:56:27 <X-Fade> Well almost..
Jun 20 18:56:39 <zyxulnaga> thats not the problem here
Jun 20 18:56:49 <zyxulnaga> I was looking for a clean solution to do it through the flasher
Jun 20 18:57:01 <thoughtfix> Depends on the burger
Jun 20 18:57:06 <zyxulnaga> like make a tar of the root, then convert it into jffs and flash it
Jun 20 18:57:18 <gla55> some cards are cheaper than couple of burgers i could think of at tampere
Jun 20 18:57:21 <X-Fade> Use mtd-tools on the device? And just copy the partition of your rootfs?
Jun 20 18:57:42 <thoughtfix> Speaking of, I have a spare 512M RS-MMC. My 770 doesn't get much use anymore except for Carman
Jun 20 18:57:50 <X-Fade> You can even use dd for that :)
Jun 20 18:58:24 <zyxulnaga> have you done it?
Jun 20 18:58:48 <X-Fade> I backed it up using dd, yes..
Jun 20 18:58:57 <zyxulnaga> and you restored it with the flasher?
Jun 20 18:59:02 <zyxulnaga> the entire system?
Jun 20 18:59:14 <X-Fade> No, only the rootfs..
Jun 20 18:59:52 <zyxulnaga> what device did you 'dd' ?
Jun 20 19:00:10 <X-Fade> By booting from mmc, nothing on your internal flash is locked..
Jun 20 19:00:55 <zyxulnaga> I am trying to understand what you did to backup your rootfs and restore it with the flasher
Jun 20 19:01:24 <X-Fade> zyxulnaga: Check 'mount..
Jun 20 19:01:30 <zyxulnaga> the rootfs is usually stored in /dev/mtdblock*
Jun 20 19:01:34 <zyxulnaga> I have
Jun 20 19:01:44 <X-Fade> /dev/mtdblock4 is rootfs.
Jun 20 19:01:47 <zyxulnaga> what you are saying now I have already tried and didn't work
Jun 20 19:01:49 <zyxulnaga> correct
Jun 20 19:02:12 <zyxulnaga> you are saying that if I dd my /dev/mtdblock4 and then use the flasher to restore it it will work?
Jun 20 19:03:30 <X-Fade> No, that is a mtd device.. Not a jffs image..
Jun 20 19:03:42 <thoughtfix> Hmm.
Jun 20 19:03:46 <zyxulnaga> so how do I restore it then?
Jun 20 19:03:53 <thoughtfix> Time for me to build a Ubuntu VM and scratchbox again.
Jun 20 19:04:02 <thoughtfix> Poke around in the IT filesystem
Jun 20 19:04:59 <keesj> X-Fade apt-get pimp-my-dist
Jun 20 19:05:30 * keesj is apparently reading the irc log
Jun 20 19:05:45 <thoughtfix> haha
Jun 20 19:06:00 <zyxulnaga> what he is saying doesn't make any sense
Jun 20 19:06:08 <thoughtfix> On a side note - anyone hiring? I've reached the end of my career path at this company
Jun 20 19:06:11 <zyxulnaga> there is no official document describing how to do it either
Jun 20 19:06:40 <keesj> thoughtfix: what country are you in?
Jun 20 19:07:57 <thoughtfix> Phoenix, AZ, USA
Jun 20 19:08:01 <zyxulnaga> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ModifyingRootImage this is the only one but its out of date
Jun 20 19:08:23 <trevarthan> Does anyone know where I might find code for the alsasink and some sort of mp3 decoder for gstreamer? I need to compile it in my ARMEL SDK.
Jun 20 19:10:25 <Daniellion> Hmm long as were talking backup and restore. Are you talking about dual booting different os versions?
Jun 20 19:10:45 <Daniellion> id be happy with a 770 equivalent of a ghost image of the internal memory
Jun 20 19:15:04 <thoughtfix> Hmm
Jun 20 19:15:16 <thoughtfix> I should apply for a job at Nokia to just keep the Wiki up to date
Jun 20 19:15:22 <thoughtfix> I could do that from home
Jun 20 19:15:53 <thoughtfix> "Here, Dan. Clarify this."
Jun 20 19:16:06 <gla55> nokia doesn't hire wiki updaters.. just gives them a free device from time to time..
Jun 20 19:16:40 <gla55> (forum nokia developer forums / wiki works that way..   they give some people champion status and throw a free device)
Jun 20 19:16:46 <thoughtfix> yeah - but I am looking to ditch my current day job
Jun 20 19:17:02 <thoughtfix> And need income :( Ads on the blog are maybe $3/day on a good day
Jun 20 19:17:04 <gla55> yeah but you wouldn't do that with a device a year
Jun 20 19:17:34 <thoughtfix> Give me enough N95's and an eBay account and I could support myself ;)
Jun 20 19:18:29 <gla55> maybe you should move to some 3rd world country where three bucks a day would do it
Jun 20 19:19:22 <thoughtfix> Maybe, but the broadband would be awful
Jun 20 19:21:06 <gla55> yeah well but you might be able to score a free olpc
Jun 20 19:21:24 <gla55> those starving children don't have that much strenght so mugging them is easy
Jun 20 19:21:26 <konttori> Maybe you should contact texrat. he works in texas. Didn't you live there as well?
Jun 20 19:21:39 <konttori> he works (at least says so) at nokia
Jun 20 19:22:15 <thoughtfix> Nope - Arizona
Jun 20 19:22:22 <thoughtfix> And lately he's in Finland, as I understand
Jun 20 19:22:39 <konttori> ahh... all right. just wondering.
Jun 20 19:23:03 <konttori> well, as another idea, how about submitting your reviews to newspapers?
Jun 20 19:23:19 <thoughtfix> That's a good idea except my target audience is so small
Jun 20 19:23:51 <konttori> Make a good allaround review of N800 with the major software reviewed and try contacting newspapers to see if they would be interested.
Jun 20 19:24:05 <thoughtfix> I sent a treatment for an article to Linux Journal - no word yet
Jun 20 19:25:30 <konttori> Try submitting to http://tuxmagazine.com/
Jun 20 19:25:39 <thoughtfix> Will do - thanks
Jun 20 19:25:54 <konttori> They reviewed 770 back in the day and might be interested in n800 review
Jun 20 19:26:10 <thoughtfix> My treatment for an article for LJ was about the Internet Tablets - then and now.
Jun 20 19:26:17 <thoughtfix> Since it's been two years since the announcement of the 770
Jun 20 19:26:24 <konttori> You could also talk to them about making a column of reviewing one maemo software  per magazine.
Jun 20 19:26:31 <konttori> I think they might be interested
Jun 20 19:26:53 <konttori> You probably won't make much dosh, but you would get a name that way.
Jun 20 19:27:27 <konttori> and maybe you could then talk about similiar idea to some other mags as well
Jun 20 19:28:12 <thoughtfix> Heh. Then publish my boring autobiography about how a gadget geek turns journalist.
Jun 20 19:28:17 <Blacksitox> wow python on n800 rulz!
Jun 20 19:28:35 <keesj> Just tell me what I am supposed to do with the devices , it's nice if it runs linux , and I spend a great time having programming fun with it, but I  don't know what to do with it :p
Jun 20 19:29:09 <thoughtfix> keesj: Get a Bluetooth DUN internet plan on your phone.
Jun 20 19:29:14 <thoughtfix> Take it everywhere.
Jun 20 19:29:53 <gla55> a take it everywhere device doesn't have much point if you don't go anywhere
Jun 20 19:29:56 <gla55> :)
Jun 20 19:30:08 <thoughtfix> oh
Jun 20 19:30:09 <gla55> i don't use the 770 i got a lot.. only on trips
Jun 20 19:30:09 <thoughtfix> well
Jun 20 19:30:16 <thoughtfix> Take it into bed with you and watch porn?
Jun 20 19:30:19 <keesj> I have a meningless live , home-(bicicle)-work-(bicicle)-home
Jun 20 19:30:57 <keesj> thoughtfix: yes that was the best thing I have done with the 770 , i played majhon with my girlfriend in bed
Jun 20 19:31:03 <gla55> thoughtfix: i prefer to watch my pron elsewhere
Jun 20 19:31:06 <konttori> keesj: listen to music through it.
Jun 20 19:31:12 <gla55> thoughtfix: anyways,one of the home uses is remote use for winamp
Jun 20 19:31:16 <konttori> use it to read books.
Jun 20 19:31:21 <konttori> It's splendid for that.
Jun 20 19:31:21 <thoughtfix> keesj: Yeah - your girlfriend is great in bed. At mahjong ;)
Jun 20 19:31:25 <gla55> i also read books with it
Jun 20 19:31:26 <konttori> much better than kosher books
Jun 20 19:31:45 <thoughtfix> I love using the Internet Tablets with Orb, by the way. That's a good thing to do with it, keesj
Jun 20 19:33:20 <melmoth> there a nice project in python that fetch books from the gutember project in a gui.... but the gui toolkit is wx :(
Jun 20 19:33:26 <keesj> yes, the real problem is that we don't have wifi at work,
Jun 20 19:33:41 <thoughtfix> Bluetooth DUN :D
Jun 20 19:33:46 <keesj> and I have not found the time to get usb-network of bt working
Jun 20 19:34:08 <gla55> unlimited 3g and you'll stop caring about wifi
Jun 20 19:34:39 <keesj> i have 25 MB gprs traffic
Jun 20 19:36:03 <thoughtfix> Mental note: Verizon offered to replace my phone so I can have BT DUN again. Must call them
Jun 20 19:37:09 <trevarthan> konttori: I've got a problem. maemo doesn't ship with a gst alsasink or a gst mp3 decoder (other than the dsp variant). I need something like that to do A2DP in ukmp. I could probably build the plugins, but I think the "ugly" gst plugins have nasty licenses or patent problems. I have a working version of mplayer that will do software mp3 decoding and alsa, so I'm considering turning ukmp into an mplayer frontend. What do you think abou
Jun 20 19:37:57 <gla55> got cut at  "do you think abou"
Jun 20 19:39:08 <konttori> Well, I don't feel that's such a good idea. At least not yet. I have considered mplayer as well, but I feel that the implications will not be small once the change is made to use mplayer.
Jun 20 19:39:21 <thoughtfix> ... so ... anyone want a sneak insight into an upcoming article?
Jun 20 19:39:44 <konttori> Also, I still don't recommend trying to get a2dp working as it's in maemo roadmap and nokia will probably do it themselves pretty soon.
Jun 20 19:41:25 <gwak_> thoughtfix:sure, your blog convinced me to be a n800 ;-]
Jun 20 19:41:37 <gwak_> urg buy
Jun 20 19:41:38 <thoughtfix> Yay. ONE OF US
Jun 20 19:42:00 <Juhaz> they're taking over?!
Jun 20 19:42:14 * Juhaz stocks up on anti-robot ammo
Jun 20 19:42:56 <thoughtfix> Upcoming article is called 2NIT - when the ProClip car mounts come out for the N800, I'm going to hack my car to run Carman on the 770 and either Canola or Navicore on the N800. I wish I had access to a third N800 to do all three at once.
Jun 20 19:44:47 <Daniellion> after many tries .. i got  my vx6700 wm5 pda phone to link and use the evdo connection
Jun 20 19:45:13 <Daniellion> i get about 250k over bluetooth.. is there a way to do a usb to usb link for the net connection you guys think>?
Jun 20 19:45:24 <gwak_> thoughtfix:sounds interesting
Jun 20 19:46:09 <keesj> look it's a m[a]emo-recorder
Jun 20 19:46:11 <guardian> evening maemo
Jun 20 19:46:16 <thoughtfix> With a little effort, I can get my Yaris as cool as the Nokia Concept Car at CES
Jun 20 19:47:13 <keesj> Daniellion: nokia->nokia or nokia->pc?
Jun 20 19:48:31 <keesj> there is this document http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_usb_networking_bora.html
Jun 20 19:48:57 <gwak_> in the last issue of Make there was a nice article about a bike based  pda (wince) +gps  setup , got me thinking about the nokia nav kit
Jun 20 19:50:31 <trevarthan> konttori: Yeah, I'm just not sure whether it's legal for me to ditribute gst-plugins-ugly... does anyone know about that?
Jun 20 19:50:54 <trevarthan> ditribute = distribute
Jun 20 19:51:12 <konttori> why would it not be?
Jun 20 19:51:52 <dev> trevarthan: why shouldn't you?
Jun 20 19:52:04 <trevarthan> http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/releases/gst-plugins-ugly/0.10.6.html
Jun 20 19:52:11 <Daniellion> keesj from nokia to my cell that has a usb in as a modem connection
Jun 20 19:52:21 <Daniellion> i run wmodem on the pocketpc as a usb dialup
Jun 20 19:52:25 <trevarthan> They're really unclear as to what kinds of patent issues and such these things have....
Jun 20 19:52:27 <Daniellion> Its faster then BT
Jun 20 19:52:51 <Daniellion> i gues i would need the nokia to dialup via that port rather then via bt
Jun 20 19:52:57 <trevarthan> "These plug-ins might have a patent noose around their neck, or a lock-up license, or any other problem that makes you think twice about shipping them."
Jun 20 19:54:00 <||cw> gwak_: I mounted a cell phone holder to my bike and stick my 2125 in it with a bt gps in my camelback.  affixing the 770 to it would be nice, but the options for a secure holder are slim
Jun 20 19:54:10 <keesj> Daniellion I am also trying to get usb-host working here (as we speak)
Jun 20 19:54:25 <||cw> bike being bicycle
Jun 20 19:54:47 <gwak_> cw: could you adapt a car solution , or are they to bulky ?
Jun 20 19:55:22 <unique311> http://www.divshare.com/download/1017249-68f
Jun 20 19:55:24 <unique311> m130
Jun 20 19:55:43 <unique311> http://www.divshare.com/download/1015719-404
Jun 20 19:55:44 <||cw> gwak_: I've yet to see one that would hold it secure enough
Jun 20 19:55:46 <unique311> m505
Jun 20 19:57:01 <Daniellion> keesj cool let me know if you get it working
Jun 20 19:57:37 <Daniellion> im assuming the 770 needs to know to accept usb net links and then use the dialing setup to actualy dial the cell's net connection
Jun 20 19:58:22 <keesj> I have seen it working a little . I get some interrupts and I have seen power on the bus (only 3.x volt). I have no recieved an adapter so I hope I can get this working without hardware hacks
Jun 20 19:58:56 <keesj> for the 770 it will not be eassy ( read thoughtfix 's blog :)
Jun 20 19:59:54 <Daniellion> aww
Jun 20 20:00:15 <Daniellion> id love to get a mini to mini usb and just activate wmodem on my phone and dial from the 770 it would be nice
Jun 20 20:00:32 <Daniellion> I assume we would have to tell it not to try and mount the phones file system first though eh?
Jun 20 20:00:37 <||cw> Daniellion: you need to inject power as well
Jun 20 20:00:54 <Daniellion> True but someone figured that out with the host mode
Jun 20 20:01:07 <Daniellion> i saw a modified usb hub/cable
Jun 20 20:01:26 <thoughtfix> Wonder where you saw that.
Jun 20 20:01:53 <Daniellion> Hmm so if im happy with the software loaded and i finally got the BT networking going.. is there a way to back this whole thing up programs settings and all? like a disk image of the internal memory?
Jun 20 20:02:00 <keesj> btw I have a cable here that should just work.
Jun 20 20:02:43 <||cw> wonder if I can find a broken 770 and get the cover of fit as a spare
Jun 20 20:02:55 <keesj> I have a sweex usb hub and my usb harddisk came with a "trypod" cable le me make a photo :0
Jun 20 20:03:54 <keesj> hmm no sorry you will need the adapter :(
Jun 20 20:05:22 <trevarthan> even if I do compile the gst ugly plugins... I think I might have to rebuild gstreamer base with alsa support...
Jun 20 20:05:58 <gwak_> gotta love google; http://google.com/corporate/solarpanels/home
Jun 20 20:06:53 * Daniellion wonders how nokia makes their os images?
Jun 20 20:07:13 <Daniellion> if we can figure that out. we can backup the whole internal memory as a snapshot yes?
Jun 20 20:07:52 <thoughtfix> Daniellion: Scratchbox!
Jun 20 20:08:13 <thoughtfix> Daniellion: http://tabletblog.com/2007/01/so-you-want-to-be-nokia-internet-tablet.html
Jun 20 20:08:53 <||cw> hm, this is interesting, even has a screw hole in the back that could be used for a mount.  not sure well it would stay in without the lid on though
Jun 20 20:09:38 <||cw> http://cgi.ebay.com/Metal-hardcase-hard-case-for-Nokia-770-Silver_W0QQitemZ150131580765QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15036QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Jun 20 20:13:41 <thoughtfix> That's the Brando case. I reviewed it some time ago. People in the Nokia pavillion at CES were actually jealous of it :D
Jun 20 20:14:00 <keesj> Daniellion: you need something like this http://www.keesj.dds.nl/Photo-0214.jpg + the nokia + the phone + the power adapter
Jun 20 20:17:15 <keesj> just get an openmokeo thingy!
Jun 20 20:22:44 <||cw> openmokeo might be my next phone
Jun 20 20:29:38 <thoughtfix> Really?
Jun 20 20:29:39 <thoughtfix> Sweet!
Jun 20 20:30:44 <maddler> hi all! :)
Jun 20 20:31:46 <thoughtfix> Wow ... N800s used in an eBay scam: http://item.express.ebay.com/Qty-3-Nokia-N800-Internet-Tablets-MYSTERY-AUCTION_W0QQitemZ170123565238QQihZ007QQtrZexpQQcmdZExpressItem
Jun 20 20:34:03 <gwak_> does ebay sanction this sort of thing?
Jun 20 20:34:53 <thoughtfix> I am notifying them now
Jun 20 20:36:02 <thoughtfix> Whoa... my YouTube channel reports "Videos Viewed: 293981
Jun 20 20:36:10 <thoughtfix> If we average 5 minutes per video ...
Jun 20 20:36:38 <thoughtfix> I've wasted a collective 2.8 years of others' lives :D
Jun 20 20:36:51 <gwak_> and think about the bandwidth!
Jun 20 20:37:20 <thoughtfix> Eh. The information is made of 100% recycled electrons and magnetic particles. I'm enviro-friendly.
Jun 20 20:38:58 <gwak_> i was reading this week that http has overtaken p2p in bandwidth
Jun 20 20:39:02 <gwak_> usage
Jun 20 20:41:15 <trevarthan> konttori: yeah, dealing with gstreamer deps is just too much of a hassle. I'm going to use this and convert ukmp into an mplayer frontend: http://jdolan.dyndns.org/trac/browser/pymp/mplayer.py
Jun 20 20:42:17 <konttori> great stuff!
Jun 20 20:43:09 <konttori> thoughtfix: do you get any revenue from youtube?
Jun 20 20:45:05 <dev> trevarthan: have you asked on #gstreamer of a way to create an a2dp sink?
Jun 20 20:46:00 <dev> trevarthan: going down that alsa sink can't be the only way into that a2dp stack
Jun 20 20:47:51 <dev> trevarthan: there has to be something on a higher level where the pcm stream can be feed into
Jun 20 20:48:24 <thoughtfix> konttori: Nope :(
Jun 20 20:49:02 <thoughtfix> If I got a real sponsor, I'd put placement in the YouTube videos, but snagging a real sponsor is tough. I'll start courting companies (probably wireless carriers or accessory makers) when my LLC paperwork goes through.
Jun 20 20:50:12 <thoughtfix> I was thinking of embedding ads in my RSS but that'd tick off too many readers ;)
Jun 20 20:50:53 <trevarthan> dev: no, so far a2dpd is an alsa only sort of thing.
Jun 20 20:51:16 <trevarthan> hence the name "bluetooth-alsa"
Jun 20 20:52:20 <gwak_> thoughtfix: do embedded really make your readers mad?, i always feel like a freeloader with google-reader
Jun 20 20:53:13 <dev> trevarthan: will have a look tomorrow
Jun 20 20:53:54 <thoughtfix> gwak_: Well I am not in the blogging business for money - I just like to share information and evangelize the platform. However, it's starting to cost me too much time and money to ignore.
Jun 20 20:54:03 <thoughtfix> Hence the formation of the LLC
Jun 20 20:54:37 <konttori> cool. Now I have a working frontend for mplayer that will download and play youtube videos just by copy pasting the web page address.
Jun 20 20:55:25 <konttori> and with mplayer it plays smooth as silk ... and fullscreen
Jun 20 20:55:45 <thoughtfix> konttori: Does the Opera on the Internet Tablets have a plug-in interface like Firefox does?
Jun 20 20:56:04 <konttori> yeah, it does. No, I cannot do it.
Jun 20 20:56:05 <thoughtfix> if so, you'd be the hero for a LOT of Internet Tablet owners.
Jun 20 20:56:10 <thoughtfix> hahaha
Jun 20 20:56:28 <konttori> Well, I hope to get eternal glory even with this.
Jun 20 20:57:01 <thoughtfix> Send me the details. I'll write a HOWTO and post a video, giving you full credit of course.
Jun 20 20:57:04 <konttori> Well, a well developed version of this. At current stage it's just a test. But... It does work pretty sweet
Jun 20 20:57:21 <thoughtfix> I'm patient
Jun 20 20:57:37 <konttori> Well, I'll have to package it, make the normal install stuff and hopefully have a look at the UI a bit more as well.
Jun 20 20:57:54 <konttori> I'd really like to make it look like my ukmp.
Jun 20 20:58:05 <konttori> By the way, how come you haven't done a piece on ukmp?
Jun 20 20:58:43 <thoughtfix> Um
Jun 20 20:58:46 <thoughtfix> <-- running behind
Jun 20 20:58:49 <thoughtfix> <-- started dating
Jun 20 21:01:46 <thoughtfix> Plus I have been collecting a MASSIVE series of Q/A's for the planned FAQ
Jun 20 21:02:25 <dev> trevarthan: http://bluetooth-alsa.sourceforge.net/history.html, according to this there once was an app - a2play - that got the audio from stdin and send it to the headset
Jun 20 21:06:15 <trevarthan> dev: yeah, but why would I bother? mplayer is available for maemo, along with alsa. Why would I go through the hassle of trying to use gst? If the nokia devs want to go that route then that's fine with me, but I don't have that kind of time. It wouldn't offer any advantages anyway. I can't modify the gst pipelines of already compiled software...
Jun 20 21:11:47 <konttori> thoughtfix: no worries ;)
Jun 20 21:11:59 <konttori> Hey. Cool. Now the downloading works perfectly.
Jun 20 21:12:13 <konttori> Just a small tuneup and I can package a sneak peak version.
Jun 20 21:12:15 <konttori> It
Jun 20 21:12:41 <thoughtfix> Any woman who will lend me her green laser pointer to play with AND can beat me at scrabble gets dibs over blogging.
Jun 20 21:12:42 <konttori> It's holiday time here in Finland (midsummers fest) and I won't be around much until monday.
Jun 20 21:13:12 <thoughtfix> Hmm ... maybe I'll get a passport and visit Finland. Wonder if I can have lunch with some of the maemo team :D
Jun 20 21:13:25 <konttori> I'm 100% certain.
Jun 20 21:14:03 <thoughtfix> :D
Jun 20 21:14:18 <konttori> Nokia guys  go out with the community once in while. It's not too hard to convince them. It's payable time for them to interact with the community
Jun 20 21:14:23 <trevarthan> konttori: are you packaging up pymp? Or some other mplayer front end?
Jun 20 21:14:42 <konttori> Nope, I'm packaging uktube now
Jun 20 21:15:00 <thoughtfix> Well step 1 is to get the passport and step 2 is to arrange the trip. Those could take time
Jun 20 21:15:00 <konttori> uktube will let you play youtube using mplayer.
Jun 20 21:15:10 <konttori> frontend will suck, but it'll get the job done
Jun 20 21:15:58 <trevarthan> basically a youtube -> divx converter?
Jun 20 21:18:08 <trevarthan> alright, well, I'm out of here. Later folks.
Jun 20 21:19:11 <konttori> Nope, it's just youtube to flash video converter
Jun 20 21:19:30 <konttori> It takes the crap out of everything. You just paste the youtube page url to it.
Jun 20 21:19:54 <konttori> And once video is downloaded, it'll just play
Jun 20 21:24:36 <Milhouse2> any nokia bugzilla support available?
Jun 20 21:25:43 <Milhouse2> trying to submit a comment on an existing bug and getting a database error
Jun 20 21:25:47 <thoughtfix> You need support ON Bugzilla?
Jun 20 21:25:50 <thoughtfix> Hi Millhouse :)
Jun 20 21:25:55 <Milhouse2> hi daniel :)
Jun 20 21:26:05 <thoughtfix> What's the URL?
Jun 20 21:26:11 <Milhouse2> yes, was hoping someone might be lurking here as it's crapping out
Jun 20 21:26:39 <Milhouse2> suppose the mailing list is my only option... no point filing a new bug :)
Jun 20 21:26:43 <thoughtfix> It's half past midnight in Helsinki, so I doubt it.
Jun 20 21:26:54 <Milhouse2> what? we don't have global support??!
Jun 20 21:26:59 <konttori> howcan I force gtk window to update?
Jun 20 21:27:56 <thoughtfix> Hmm ... I am able to browse bugzilla without a problem
Jun 20 21:28:08 <Milhouse2> yeah, i'm trying to submit a new comment
Jun 20 21:28:47 <konttori> What is the  equivalent of drawscreen in gtk?
Jun 20 21:29:14 <Milhouse2> this a screenshot of the error: http://www.nmacleod.com/images/bugzilla_db_error.jpg
Jun 20 21:29:18 <thoughtfix> Aaah I just hit a database error too
Jun 20 21:29:33 <thoughtfix> Yep ... looks similar
Jun 20 21:29:51 <Milhouse2> I'll file a report on maemo developers
Jun 20 21:30:03 <thoughtfix> Dude that looks like an XP screen! Get up with the times!
Jun 20 21:30:04 <thoughtfix> ;)
Jun 20 21:30:59 <konttori> Ok, until I get that info, I can't update the download progress
Jun 20 21:31:04 <konttori> I'll now package.
Jun 20 21:31:56 <Milhouse2> XP - it works surprisingly well for me :) I'll wait until SP2 of Vista before giving that a spin, and I'm more of a Linux Server fan than desktop (although if I could get Beryl to work properly I could be sold...)
Jun 20 21:32:43 <thoughtfix> Beryl is gorgeous but unfinished. Vista is gorgeous but unfinished. My primary computer is a Core2 Duo iMac :o
Jun 20 21:32:45 <Milhouse2> One day I'll build a modern PC as a Linux test machine... I only have Linux Server running on some old dual Pentium 3 Supermicro server board I picked up off ebay
Jun 20 21:33:28 <thoughtfix> I just cheat and use Parallels when I need a Linux workstation. I have a dedicated Linux server (from which I am IRCing if you see my /whois)
Jun 20 21:35:11 <Milhouse2> I keep talking myself out of buying a Mac :)
Jun 20 21:35:25 <Milhouse2> I just don't need one... I'd like one but probably wouldn't use it!
Jun 20 21:35:36 <thoughtfix> I wish I did. I got it in Feb. after I was disappointed with Vista since they were promising a Spring Leopard release
Jun 20 21:36:06 <thoughtfix> Then once Apple realized everyone was disappointed with Vista, they said "Hey! It's safe now! We'll push back Leopard!"
Jun 20 21:36:39 <thoughtfix> Now six months later with new drivers, device, and tweak support, I kinda like Vista.
Jun 20 21:37:01 * sxpert prefers his penguins for some reason
Jun 20 21:37:33 <thoughtfix> gah... I can't say your name in my head without hearing "sex spurt"  - but yeah - Linux is better as a server and embedded OS
Jun 20 21:38:23 * sp3000 completely randomly brings up the good old expertsexchange
Jun 20 21:38:56 <Milhouse2> Before I replace my existing "main" PC (I also have a Win2K3 server and a Linux server) I'll build a new PC and dual boot Linux+Beryl and Vista
Jun 20 21:39:05 <thoughtfix> Good thing they added the dash to that URL
Jun 20 21:39:18 <Milhouse2> Undecided which distro to go with, but if Ubuntu 7.10 comes bundled with Beryl I'll definately give that a spin
Jun 20 21:39:28 <Milhouse2> I've normally stuck with Suse for the server
Jun 20 21:39:52 <thoughtfix> I hate dual-booting. I'd rather have one OS per machine and have the machine built to handle that OS
Jun 20 21:40:13 <Milhouse2> maybe i'll take a look at virtualisation
Jun 20 21:40:14 <thoughtfix> Though slower and less flexible, I prefer virtualization over dual booting any day.
Jun 20 21:40:36 <gla55> yeah it's much nicer..
Jun 20 21:40:40 <gla55> booting sucks
Jun 20 21:40:44 <Milhouse2> i think all the current cpus support virtualisation nopw
Jun 20 21:40:49 <Milhouse2> s/nopw/now
Jun 20 21:41:03 <Milhouse2> hmmm... irc bot sleeping?
Jun 20 21:41:10 <Milhouse2> s/nopw/now/
Jun 20 21:41:12 <Milhouse2> bah
Jun 20 21:41:18 <thoughtfix> Except for the lack of some advanced video functions, I've never been dissatisfied with XP MCE running in a Parallels VM
Jun 20 21:41:29 <thoughtfix> I give the VM 512M RAM leaving the other 1.5G for MacOS
Jun 20 21:41:58 <Milhouse2> oh thats the other thing i want but don't need - Vista MCE thingy (still found nothing better than my TiVo Series 1!)
Jun 20 21:42:15 <thoughtfix> I miss my PC games sometimes, but having a Wii compensates. Also, I rebuilt my Media Center box to be a Core2 Duo 1.8 with 2GB RAM and Vista Home Premium :D
Jun 20 21:42:20 <Milhouse2> Is Parallels free with OS X?
Jun 20 21:42:26 <Milhouse2> or is it a seperate product?
Jun 20 21:42:32 <thoughtfix> Noooo
Jun 20 21:42:39 <thoughtfix> It's a different company
Jun 20 21:42:42 <thoughtfix> but they just released 3.0
Jun 20 21:42:44 <thoughtfix> and I upgraded
Jun 20 21:42:57 <thoughtfix> The cool part about 3.0 is that it cross-mounts drives when booted.
Jun 20 21:43:12 <thoughtfix> So your Windows drive appears on your Mac and vice versa as network drives
Jun 20 21:43:28 <thoughtfix> And it supports Boot Camp partitions
Jun 20 21:43:31 <Milhouse2> oh i see - $80 for Parallels Desktop 3.0
Jun 20 21:43:49 <thoughtfix> So you can boot up your Boot Camp OS from inside Parallels
Jun 20 21:44:07 <Milhouse2> How is this different to VMWare?
Jun 20 21:44:09 <thoughtfix> I don't know how it switches the drivers from native to virtualized
Jun 20 21:44:11 <thoughtfix> but it does
Jun 20 21:45:03 <gla55> is there vmware for osx? (not virtualpc..)
Jun 20 21:45:35 <thoughtfix> I don't know
Jun 20 21:45:36 <Milhouse2> gla55 - don't know, would have thought there might be
Jun 20 21:46:36 <Milhouse2> yes, there is
Jun 20 21:46:47 <Milhouse2> "Run Windows XP & Vista on Your Mac with Ease
Jun 20 21:46:55 <Milhouse2> Now in beta, VMware Fusion enables you to run Windows XP and Vista on your Intel-based Mac without rebooting. Increase productivity, reduce hardware costs and bridge the gap between Windows and Mac OS X by taking advantage of VMware Fusion’s:
Jun 20 21:47:06 <Milhouse2> http://www.vmware.com/products/enterprise_desktop.html
Jun 20 21:47:25 <Milhouse2> then select "Mac Users"
Jun 20 21:47:52 <Milhouse2> still beta so no price
Jun 20 21:48:24 <Milhouse2> so thats two better options than dual booting if you have an x86 PC :)
Jun 20 21:48:50 <gla55> i hate dual booting for the reason that i hate booting at all
Jun 20 21:49:03 <gla55> ..and i use windows mostly
Jun 20 21:49:14 <gla55> i hate to bring up all the apps after boot
Jun 20 21:49:24 <gpd> anyone have any luck with gmediaserver and canola: or shoudl I try mediatomb / fuppes / twonky / other?
Jun 20 21:49:28 <gla55> and cmdline windows i use for building and shti
Jun 20 21:49:36 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: fuppes
Jun 20 21:49:40 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: it's the best so far
Jun 20 21:49:58 <k-s[WORK]> (I'm the canola developer that worked with upnp)
Jun 20 21:50:06 <gpd> k-s[WORK]: does it store the media and not have to rescan after boot: gmediaserver is not good at that
Jun 20 21:50:23 <k-s[WORK]> twonky is good too, but it's not free... never tested mediatomb
Jun 20 21:50:35 <gpd> ok fuppes it is then... thanks
Jun 20 21:50:40 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: I don't remember
Jun 20 21:50:55 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: fuppes and mediatomb seems to work with PS3 too :-)
Jun 20 21:51:13 <gpd> it would be nice if MythTV worked with music but it seems to be broken in 0.20
Jun 20 21:51:52 <gpd> I don't suppose there are any plans to support mythtv video in canola... leave that to gmyth?
Jun 20 21:52:50 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: yes, there are plans
Jun 20 21:52:57 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: gmyth guys are from the same office
Jun 20 21:53:05 <gpd> sweet :D
Jun 20 21:53:10 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: but we're working on some reorganization here
Jun 20 21:53:24 <k-s[WORK]> you'll probably see a 2.0 before 1.0 turns final :-P
Jun 20 21:53:35 <k-s[WORK]> scriptable with python
Jun 20 21:53:45 <k-s[WORK]> better and enhanced UI
Jun 20 21:54:00 <gpd> sounds super cool
Jun 20 21:55:50 <k-s[WORK]> gpd: I'm working on UI infra, possible it will help others, like konttori
Jun 20 21:56:24 <konttori> interesting. what kind of nfra?
Jun 20 21:56:45 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: remember that Evas/Edje I've told you?
Jun 20 21:57:11 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: I've some good improvements with my Evas software_16 engine over plain 32bpp
Jun 20 21:57:33 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: SDL/PyGame already does 16bpp... but due some optimizations I can do even better
Jun 20 21:57:34 <k-s[WORK]> :-)
Jun 20 21:57:37 <konttori> ahh... very nice
Jun 20 21:57:49 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: have you played with Evas/Edje?
Jun 20 21:58:22 <konttori> umm.. nope.
Jun 20 21:58:39 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: please take a look when you have time
Jun 20 21:59:10 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: you could try to rewrite UKMP UI using it, at least the basics are really easy
Jun 20 21:59:43 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: but python bindings just cover 32bpp engine, so it will be slower than what you'll get with my version
Jun 20 21:59:59 <konttori> sounds nice.
Jun 20 22:00:10 <konttori> otoh. i feel python is fast enough for my needs
Jun 20 22:00:13 <thoughtfix> konttori: How did you make that video for Theme Maker?
Jun 20 22:00:22 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: but you can try it on PC and ASAP I create the python bindings for 16bpp and you get my word it will be fast enough
Jun 20 22:00:45 <konttori> I just made a slideshow with the apples keynote
Jun 20 22:00:50 <thoughtfix> Oh neat
Jun 20 22:00:53 <konttori> And exported it as movie
Jun 20 22:01:35 <konttori> I'm running out of time to try it at the moment.
Jun 20 22:01:42 <konttori> I can try some time next week though.
Jun 20 22:01:51 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: no problem
Jun 20 22:02:07 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: I'm finishing image scale code, then I have almost everything I need
Jun 20 22:02:29 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: polygons and gradient will be left for later time, but I don't think you use those yourself
Jun 20 22:02:50 <konttori> probably wouldn't no.
Jun 20 22:02:55 * gpd notes spectacular lack of documentation for fuppes
Jun 20 22:03:20 <konttori> how do I make a dpkg without the debian folder?
Jun 20 22:03:39 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: ok, so except by reflections, you can do all those things using Edje theme system! it's really cool and impressive
Jun 20 22:03:57 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: you can create control.tar.gz, release and data.tar.gz files
Jun 20 22:04:00 <konttori> Nice! Fast as well?
Jun 20 22:04:10 <k-s[WORK]> them "ar" them... just check Maemo.org wiki
Jun 20 22:04:12 <konttori> I'm using dpkg -b.
Jun 20 22:04:20 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: yes! Really fast with my backend
Jun 20 22:04:21 <konttori> I don't have ar on my mac
Jun 20 22:04:37 <konttori> I only have dpkg
Jun 20 22:04:48 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: just check http://www.enlightenment.org/   I can help you to setup stuff
Jun 20 22:05:02 <k-s[WORK]> konttori: python bindings are in CVS, under e17/proto/python-efl/
Jun 20 22:05:22 <Markov__> E works on the n800?
Jun 20 22:05:31 <k-s[WORK]> Markov__: yes!
Jun 20 22:05:43 <Markov__> woah!
Jun 20 22:05:45 <k-s[WORK]> Markov__: http://www.rasterman.com/
Jun 20 22:05:49 <k-s[WORK]> ;-)
Jun 20 22:06:07 <k-s[WORK]> Markov__: I'm working with raster to finish the 16bpp engine ASAP
Jun 20 22:06:12 <gla55> nice, nice
Jun 20 22:06:23 <Markov__> omg
Jun 20 22:06:55 <k-s[WORK]> omg?
Jun 20 22:07:00 <Markov__> that's awesome
Jun 20 22:07:10 <Markov__> i was using it on a gentoo box at home
Jun 20 22:07:21 <Markov__> never guess it would work with maemo
Jun 20 22:07:42 <Markov__> a happy coincidence
Jun 20 22:07:56 <k-s[WORK]> :-)
Jun 20 22:09:16 <k-s[WORK]> gotta go
Jun 21 00:35:36 <adoyle> Anyone know if there's a problem with the wiki or is it me?
Jun 21 00:35:48 <adoyle> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ModifyingRootImage does not work
Jun 21 00:35:59 <adoyle> Nor http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 21 02:59:57 2007