**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 28 02:59:57 2007
Jun 28 03:00:21 <cnc> havent got that far yet
Jun 28 03:00:27 <cnc> im still on the usb thing lol
Jun 28 03:01:11 <KaylaKaze> there's a microphone
Jun 28 03:01:21 <ericz> built in microphone?
Jun 28 03:01:24 <KaylaKaze> yes
Jun 28 03:01:33 <ericz> speakers too?
Jun 28 03:01:41 <KaylaKaze> yes
Jun 28 03:01:56 <ericz> there's a port for headphones though, right?
Jun 28 03:02:03 <KaylaKaze> probably]
Jun 28 03:03:11 <KaylaKaze> http://europe.nokia.com/A4145105
Jun 28 04:00:48 <Tadafumi> Hi
Jun 28 04:05:05 <Tadafumi> Tadafumi
Jun 28 04:09:57 <hieptranit> hey Tada
Jun 28 04:10:11 <hieptranit> help
Jun 28 04:11:57 <KaylaKaze> wow! GTK+ sucks really bad
Jun 28 04:13:43 <Tadafumi> Hi
Jun 28 04:14:05 <mightyhippy> hi
Jun 28 04:15:13 <hieptranit> hi
Jun 28 04:15:18 <Tadafumi> hi
Jun 28 04:15:23 <Mikho> hi
Jun 28 04:21:13 <KaylaKaze> GTK is solid proof that linux programmers are insane
Jun 28 04:24:19 <Tadafumi> Does anyone know other tutorials regarding "How to write a new application to maemo 3.0" for beginners?
Jun 28 04:32:43 <KaylaKaze> Tadafumi: get Eclipse and Laika
Jun 28 04:32:49 <KaylaKaze> they make it much easier
Jun 28 04:33:09 <KaylaKaze> but from what I'm reading, GTK just plain sucks anyhway
Jun 28 04:34:38 <zuh> Everything sucks, some things just tend to suck less than others...
Jun 28 04:34:52 <Tadafumi> Thanks
Jun 28 04:48:10 <Tadafumi> Does Laika support maemo3.0?
Jun 28 04:54:59 <`0660> what's wrong with gtk?
Jun 28 04:55:07 <KaylaKaze> Tadafumi: yes
Jun 28 04:55:36 <KaylaKaze> gtk has that block packing thing. It's annoying. I want to put an edit box anywhere in a window that I want
Jun 28 04:57:01 <KaylaKaze> right now I'm seeing if I can make the program I was thinking of in HTML.
Jun 28 04:57:10 <KaylaKaze> HTML, php, and JS that is
Jun 28 04:57:23 <sxpert> what's that supposed to mean ?
Jun 28 04:57:37 <KaylaKaze> what's what supposed to mean?
Jun 28 04:57:49 <sxpert> absolute pixel positionning a la visual basic is evil
Jun 28 04:57:57 <`0660> KaylaKaze, doesn't GtkFixed do just that?
Jun 28 04:58:11 <KaylaKaze> I don't know. That wasn't listed in the docs I was looking at
Jun 28 04:59:06 <`0660> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/api/gtk/GtkFixed.html
Jun 28 04:59:21 <KaylaKaze> and absolute positioning is fine depending on what you're tryign to acomplish
Jun 28 04:59:24 <zuh> Yes, if you put a gtkfixed as the child to your window, you could simulate all the horrors of fixed layouts
Jun 28 04:59:30 <`0660> so gtk sucks because you don't know how to read the manual or use google? :)
Jun 28 04:59:36 <KaylaKaze> thanks
Jun 28 04:59:50 <KaylaKaze> well, how was I supposed to know it was called GtkFixed?
Jun 28 04:59:58 <KaylaKaze> can't search for it if I don't know what it's called
Jun 28 05:00:30 <KaylaKaze> that'll be very useful. Thank you
Jun 28 05:00:33 <`0660> well i used words "gtk absolute positioning"
Jun 28 05:01:06 <KaylaKaze> but it still may be easier to do this D&D character sheet in HTML, at least for now :-)
Jun 28 05:01:18 <KaylaKaze> hopefully opera will be able to read it okay
Jun 28 05:01:27 <`0660> html is always better if it's enough
Jun 28 05:02:48 <KaylaKaze> see, what I want to do is have something where if you tap the screen in a certain place, you can make an edit box there.
Jun 28 05:03:04 <KaylaKaze> that's an over simplification but accurate enough
Jun 28 05:03:32 <`0660> haven't seen that in html but i guess it would be doable :)
Jun 28 05:03:52 <KaylaKaze> well, I'm not trying to do THAT in HTM. That's what I ultimately want to do on the N770
Jun 28 05:04:41 <`0660> suddenly gtk seems to be the best tool to accomplish that :)
Jun 28 05:04:44 <KaylaKaze> but I was thinking of making just something rough for my D&D game sunday, so I was looking at GTK and Gazpacho.
Jun 28 05:05:17 <KaylaKaze> so, yeah, GTK looks good for it with the GtkFixed :-)
Jun 28 05:06:38 <KaylaKaze> do you have a 770?
Jun 28 05:09:45 <KaylaKaze> ... maybe I should just forget about trying to make the webpage fit the graphic of the sheet and just make a page with equal functionality...
Jun 28 05:14:30 <`0660> i have n800
Jun 28 05:15:18 <KaylaKaze> well.. I guess the opera versions should be close enough. I was just checking if the opera was tabbed like the PC versions
Jun 28 05:15:36 <`0660> i don't think it is
Jun 28 05:16:34 <KaylaKaze> well, mine shoudld be here saturday so I guess I'll have time to make whatever adjustments I may need, in case the opera isn't as functional as I'd like
Jun 28 06:18:56 <unique311> I need some assistance
Jun 28 06:19:30 <unique311> I want a script that will.....
Jun 28 06:20:20 <unique311> move a directory to a backup folder when i run it
Jun 28 06:21:11 <unique311> rephrase that
Jun 28 06:21:37 <unique311> move a folder .folder to a backup folder i made....
Jun 28 06:21:54 <unique311> and move it back to the default location when i run it again.
Jun 28 07:31:16 <cy-> yo
Jun 28 07:50:06 <konttori> hey, is there sdhc support in the next firmware?
Jun 28 07:50:22 <konttori> Just wondering if I should get a new SD card or not.
Jun 28 07:50:48 <konttori> I'm pumped to two 2gb sd cards and now that I us uktube, the videos are taking more and more space.
Jun 28 07:57:57 <zuh> I'd go for it even if it isn't
Jun 28 07:58:48 <zuh> Flashing the kernel isn't that difficult (nor any riskier than flashing the whole firmware really)
Jun 28 07:59:03 <zuh> Unless you are bound to just Windows of course...
Jun 28 08:00:13 <unique311> k, i made the mv scripts i needed...
Jun 28 08:00:44 <unique311> Now i know how i can incoperate them to the app, but the scripts require a restart when run...
Jun 28 08:01:19 <unique311> should i make that restart happen when the script is run..or let it be a manually thing that the user do?
Jun 28 08:05:09 <zuh> User-initiated, unless it's absolutely not possible to continue using the device without risking data loss
Jun 28 08:06:16 <zuh> It's always annoying if something forcefully reboots the machine, at least if it's not totally clear in the beginning
Jun 28 08:06:37 <unique311> thats very true..
Jun 28 08:06:39 <zuh> You might have a good web page open that you'd like to bookmark but didn't yet
Jun 28 08:07:24 <unique311> simple script that moves .icons to a bakup folder...which makes mouse cursor visible...
Jun 28 08:08:41 <unique311> hmmm
Jun 28 08:09:29 <unique311> even then its difficult to have quicksynergy work side by side with it. becuase of that reboot...
Jun 28 08:10:16 <unique311> how do i restart whatever handles the mouse cursor without restarting the device?
Jun 28 08:10:31 <unique311> should be a mouse daemon running correct?
Jun 28 08:11:00 <sbaturzioAtWork> Aloha!
Jun 28 08:12:05 <zuh> unique311: It's the X server that handles the mouse, and for that to be restarted, you have to shut down most of the running software anyway. That said, AFAIK it should be possible to set the cursor theme without restarting.
Jun 28 08:12:36 <zuh> I'm not exactly sure how though, never looked into mouse cursors that much...
Jun 28 08:13:03 <unique311> i found this tutorial on how to a while ago..
Jun 28 08:13:16 <unique311> but seem to be MIA now..
Jun 28 08:14:13 <unique311> other choice to make the mouse cursor visible is to delete the symlink .icons folder in the /hom/user directory
Jun 28 08:18:17 <c0ffee> you can set the cursor theme with xsetroot -cursor_name <cursor> or something
Jun 28 08:21:31 <unique311> coomand not found
Jun 28 08:21:36 <unique311> command*
Jun 28 08:26:28 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 28 08:30:55 <cy-> sup Jaffa
Jun 28 09:06:01 <unique311> Copy a visible Xcur file to /usr/share/icons/ (i.e. dot from here. dot is part of the debian xcursor-themes package)
Jun 28 09:06:01 <unique311> cd usr/share/icons/xcursor-transparent/cursors && mv transp trans.orig && ln -s ../../dot transp
Jun 28 09:06:15 <unique311> still requires a reboot...
Jun 28 09:08:03 <unique311> that requires replacing the dot transp with an visible dot cursor...
Jun 28 09:08:55 <unique311> deleting or removing the ~.icons symlink provides the default black arrow cursor.
Jun 28 09:29:55 <unique311> instead of having 2 scripts, i would like to merge them together and instead pass the script with and option.
Jun 28 09:30:00 <unique311> example
Jun 28 09:30:18 <unique311> sh script -transp
Jun 28 09:30:27 <unique311> or sh script -visible
Jun 28 09:30:46 <unique311> help with this
Jun 28 09:33:36 <felipec> unique311: if [ "$1" == "-transp]; then whatever; fi
Jun 28 09:33:48 <unique311> thanks
Jun 28 09:36:16 <pupnik_> "-transp"
Jun 28 09:37:55 <unique311> whatever is the command i want to pass..
Jun 28 09:38:03 <unique311> or then whatever
Jun 28 09:38:49 <pupnik> yeah
Jun 28 09:49:38 <jani> hey, does anyone know about maemo dbus stuff ?
Jun 28 09:50:20 <jani> i got some issues where im sending *and* receiving messages but i cant see the appropriate messages in dbus-monitor output =(
Jun 28 10:01:16 <Gathaja> I tried to use wlancond with dbus and didn't see anything on dbus-monitor either
Jun 28 10:06:03 <unique311> ////     #!/bin/bash
Jun 28 10:06:03 <unique311> RV=/bin/rm;
Jun 28 10:06:03 <unique311> CP=/bin/cp;
Jun 28 10:06:03 <unique311> if [ "$1 == "-transp" ]; then $RM -r "/home/user/.icons";
Jun 28 10:06:03 <unique311> if [ "$1 == "-visible" ]; then $CP -R "/home/user/iconsBAK/.Icons" "/home/user/"
Jun 28 10:06:04 <unique311> exit 0
Jun 28 10:06:06 <unique311> fi
Jun 28 10:06:10 <unique311>      ////////
Jun 28 10:06:13 <unique311> returning errors...
Jun 28 10:06:16 <unique311> hmmm
Jun 28 10:06:53 <zuh> RV?
Jun 28 10:07:17 <zuh> Probably should be RM...
Jun 28 10:07:33 <unique311> it is rm
Jun 28 10:08:14 <dpb_> RV=/bin/rm; <- that surely is RV..
Jun 28 10:08:17 <unique311> seems like its running both commands...
Jun 28 10:08:23 <unique311> i know..
Jun 28 10:08:32 <unique311> on i fixed that..
Jun 28 10:08:35 <cy-> there any software for OSX to interface with the n800?  syncing contacts, moving files over usb, etc ?  I'm not finding dick :P
Jun 28 10:08:44 <unique311> that was a copy and paste from the destop notepad
Jun 28 10:08:56 <dpb_> most likely there isn't cy- :p
Jun 28 10:09:01 <cy-> :(
Jun 28 10:09:05 <cy-> that sucks
Jun 28 10:09:07 <unique311> but it looks like even with the -flags its running both commands...
Jun 28 10:09:21 <dpb_> Is there some for linux even?
Jun 28 10:09:32 <sp3000> "$1 == "?
Jun 28 10:09:36 <cy-> I suppose you could rock out a samba or nfs share
Jun 28 10:09:41 <zuh> cy-: For USB, it should function just like any other mass storage device (with an SD in the external slot)
Jun 28 10:09:45 <mattsqz> sync contacts..? hm
Jun 28 10:09:50 <cy-> but I don't have an access point here so no networking available :(
Jun 28 10:09:54 <mattsqz> rsync?
Jun 28 10:09:56 <cy-> zuh: really?  I can't get osx to see the device
Jun 28 10:10:02 <cy-> hmm
Jun 28 10:10:06 <cy-> maybe there's some USB prefs or something
Jun 28 10:10:30 * cy- tries again
Jun 28 10:10:42 <mattsqz> osx/darwin is bastardised bsd
Jun 28 10:10:48 <zuh> Or it could be that some process is using the card and it refuses to unmount it...
Jun 28 10:11:00 <unique311> definitely running both commands even thought i run the individual -
Jun 28 10:11:09 <dpb_> unique311: did you see what sp3000 said?
Jun 28 10:11:17 <suihkulokki> cy-: do you have a memory card in the n800 ?
Jun 28 10:11:18 <dpb_> you're missing some "s
Jun 28 10:11:23 <konttori> cy.: Just plug n800 in and you should see both your SD cards mounted
Jun 28 10:11:23 <cy-> suihkulokki: yeah
Jun 28 10:11:31 <cy-> newp :(
Jun 28 10:11:32 <cy-> suck
Jun 28 10:11:36 <cy-> oh damn
Jun 28 10:11:37 <cy-> there it goes!
Jun 28 10:11:41 <cy-> noice ;)
Jun 28 10:11:57 <cy-> just didn't mount the first time around for some reason.. yeah I figured it would treat it as removable storage
Jun 28 10:12:00 <zuh> unique311: and you have only one 'fi' there, but two 'if's...
Jun 28 10:12:00 <cy-> well damn that's nice
Jun 28 10:12:25 * mattsqz wonders how FAT was allowed to become the common usb storage format
Jun 28 10:12:39 <b0unc3> unique311: fi at the end of each if ...
Jun 28 10:12:43 <jani> unique311: isnt that missing one "fi" ?
Jun 28 10:12:44 <unique311> k
Jun 28 10:13:01 <suihkulokki> mattsqz: have you heard about this "windows" thingy?
Jun 28 10:13:13 <unique311> not understanding the S1 ==" sp300
Jun 28 10:13:22 <unique311> not understanding the $1 ==" sp300
Jun 28 10:13:32 <cy-> now if only there was an easy way to remove the memory card on the bottom of the n800
Jun 28 10:13:37 <jani> aah true, you are also missing " =))
Jun 28 10:13:43 <zuh> mattsqz: poor support for real filesystems in the market leader OS, nothing more...
Jun 28 10:13:53 <mattsqz> suihkulokki: is that the thing with curtains?
Jun 28 10:14:00 <cy-> fingernail I guess :)
Jun 28 10:14:03 <jani> if [ "$1 == "-transp" ] .. -> "$1"
Jun 28 10:14:35 <unique311> define $1
Jun 28 10:14:48 <jani> $1 is commnandline parameter ?
Jun 28 10:14:53 <jani> -n
Jun 28 10:15:45 <jani> unique311: are you writing that or just pasting funny code ? =))
Jun 28 10:16:17 <unique311> pasting....writing it on wordpad then pasting for you guys to see.
Jun 28 10:16:23 <unique311> also running it on my n800
Jun 28 10:16:59 <unique311> just want the code to do one thing if i run it with the -transp option
Jun 28 10:17:06 <unique311> and another if run with the -visible
Jun 28 10:17:24 <unique311> but i don'y not want it to run both of the codes
Jun 28 10:17:29 <unique311> which is what it is doing now..
Jun 28 10:17:39 <unique311> regardless of the option.
Jun 28 10:19:23 <unique311> should else be added in between the 2
Jun 28 10:19:29 <jani> =)
Jun 28 10:23:02 <Gathaja> could someone recommend some vector format & library that could read it? librsvg( or svg itself ) seems to be quite slow
Jun 28 10:24:03 <jani> unique311: http://www.pastebin.ca/593456
Jun 28 10:24:57 <unique311> thanks you kindly jani
Jun 28 10:37:54 <unique311> thanks alot jani...
Jun 28 10:37:56 <unique311> its working
Jun 28 10:38:40 <unique311> considering theres activity in here now, next question might get answered..
Jun 28 10:49:14 <jani> =)
Jun 28 10:57:03 <roope> http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/06/27/technology/28pogue.2.L.jpg
Jun 28 10:59:52 <cy-> hmm
Jun 28 11:00:00 <cy-> bored
Jun 28 11:00:02 <cy-> :P
Jun 28 11:00:30 <jani> whats the next question then unique ?
Jun 28 11:00:32 <cy-> anyone use osx's internet connection sharing to proxy the n800 to the intarweb?
Jun 28 11:00:33 <unique311> tis a nice keypad...
Jun 28 11:00:39 <unique311> oh...
Jun 28 11:00:51 <unique311> its about the mouse cursor...
Jun 28 11:01:05 <unique311> the script is to make the mousecursor visible
Jun 28 11:01:19 <unique311> now it requires a restart..which sucks..
Jun 28 11:01:22 <jani> roope: thats iphone ?
Jun 28 11:01:29 <gla55> thats iphone
Jun 28 11:01:32 <unique311> yes
Jun 28 11:01:38 <unique311> looks like it
Jun 28 11:01:41 <konttori> roope: wicked!
Jun 28 11:01:47 <unique311> thats safari running
Jun 28 11:01:51 <unique311> safari mobile..
Jun 28 11:01:51 <unique311> lol
Jun 28 11:01:56 <jani> unique311: kill -HUP ?
Jun 28 11:02:23 <unique311> but thats the problem i don't want to restart the device
Jun 28 11:02:46 <unique311> but am not sure what to kill to restart the mouse...so that it is visible after running the script
Jun 28 11:02:47 <konttori> roope: I think the idea in iphone of using probable next character to enlargen the character hit area is a very good one. Might work for maemo as well.
Jun 28 11:03:46 <jani> unique311: hup is not kill signal, if you sent hup to the process you need restarting, if it has decent design, it should just reload the new configs and not to stop anything ..
Jun 28 11:03:47 <gwak__> konttori: i agree, a really good idea from apple
Jun 28 11:03:58 <konttori> Also, I like in that iphone example the idea that applications can have a action button (like to GO button there) in the keyboard as well. Makes sense.
Jun 28 11:04:54 <unique311> ok
Jun 28 11:07:05 <unique311> what process does the mouse cursor runs under?
Jun 28 11:07:22 <jani> unique311: ofcourse you need to give the pid of the right process as parameter also to kill -HUP..
Jun 28 11:07:57 <unique311> all this can be incorperated in the script...
Jun 28 11:08:37 <jani> well, its x server thats taking care of the mouse but there's propably some theme engine that does the graphics .. i dont know =)
Jun 28 11:10:14 <zuh> X cursors are themed with the X cursor extension, no external engines involved
Jun 28 11:10:19 <zuh> (afaik ;)
Jun 28 11:10:46 <henkt> hi, I just downloaded gtk+-2.6.10.ta.bz2     Were I install it and how I install it on my Debian system
Jun 28 11:10:50 <henkt> any idea?
Jun 28 11:13:39 <jani> depends on what you wish to do with it
Jun 28 11:16:00 <henkt> jani, I am studing a tutorial and I want to test this sample aplication with it. I have gtk in scratch box. it can compile it but didnt display the resutl for me
Jun 28 11:17:41 <jani> well, for starters, if you install scratchbox and maemo sdk, it should come with all the headers/libs necessery, specially gtk libs .. so you dont need to install those manually.
Jun 28 11:19:07 <jani> specially, gtk for maemo platform is not vanilla gtk.
Jun 28 11:19:17 <henkt> yes but I noticed that I have to know a bit more about Gtk be fore I come to maemo. so how can I test gtk sample codes.
Jun 28 11:19:44 <jani> what distro you are using ?
Jun 28 11:19:57 <henkt> distro?
Jun 28 11:20:08 <jani> linux distribution ?
Jun 28 11:20:13 <henkt> debian
Jun 28 11:21:42 <henkt> what is better
Jun 28 11:21:55 <henkt> to install gtk again out side scratchbox
Jun 28 11:22:30 <jani> if you wish to experiment with just gtk, then its better to install it outside scratchbox ..
Jun 28 11:23:12 <henkt> I have this file gtk+-2.6.10.ta.bz2
Jun 28 11:23:15 <jani> so could just install libgtk2.0-dev for starters and check the sample programs ..
Jun 28 11:23:35 <henkt> do I say #install gtk+-2.6.10.ta.bz2
Jun 28 11:23:43 <unique311> kill -hup xserver that'll work won't it?
Jun 28 11:23:57 <gwak__> henkt: he is talking about apt-get
Jun 28 11:24:18 <jani> henkt: prolly alot of easier that you just delete that file and install gtk dev headers via apt-get
Jun 28 11:24:49 <jani> *alot* easier
Jun 28 11:25:13 <gwak__> unless you love compiling 10 other packages first ;-]
Jun 28 11:25:51 <jani> indeed.
Jun 28 11:26:02 <jani> which might not be the case here.. just a thought =)
Jun 28 11:26:07 <henkt> ok but dont I have to put the link on /etc/apt/sources.list
Jun 28 11:26:30 <henkt> what do I do firest now?
Jun 28 11:26:38 <cy-> there we go.. hmm
Jun 28 11:26:54 <cy-> what's the best way to get simple tools like ping/traceroute/nmap/wget/etc?
Jun 28 11:26:57 <cy-> apt?
Jun 28 11:27:06 <gwak__> heknt:
Jun 28 11:27:17 <jani> apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev
Jun 28 11:27:20 <gwak__> sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev
Jun 28 11:27:35 <jani> outside scratchbox =)
Jun 28 11:27:43 <henkt> yes let me check
Jun 28 11:27:57 <cy-> ettercap/kismet/etc would be nice too
Jun 28 11:28:07 <cy-> I read in some forum that kismet has issues on n800
Jun 28 11:30:08 <jani> unique311: replace xserver with the process id of x and it *might* work ;)
Jun 28 11:31:25 <henkt> jani,gwak, it finished installing
Jun 28 11:31:32 <henkt> but when I complie with            gcc helloWorld.c -o helloWorld `pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0`
Jun 28 11:31:46 <henkt> it complies it in the scratchbox but not hear
Jun 28 11:31:48 <henkt> it says
Jun 28 11:32:01 <jani> drumroll
Jun 28 11:32:04 <henkt>  gcc helloWorld.c -o helloWorld `pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0`
Jun 28 11:32:18 <henkt> bash: gcc: command not found
Jun 28 11:32:37 <jani> *symbals and snares* =))
Jun 28 11:32:59 <unique311> found it...
Jun 28 11:33:06 <henkt> jani  ??
Jun 28 11:33:15 <jani> henkt: sudo apt-get install build-essential
Jun 28 11:33:15 <gwak__> henkt: let me see if i can find a howto for gtk development on a debian box
Jun 28 11:33:45 <jani> henkt: you dont have c compiler installed, so run the command above ..
Jun 28 11:33:48 <bilboed> Is there a way to have IM conversations in tabs instead of separate windows ?
Jun 28 11:33:51 <unique311> /usr/bin/Xomap -mouse tslib -nozap -dpi 96 -wr -nolis
Jun 28 11:33:57 <unique311> i think thats it..
Jun 28 11:34:09 <unique311> well it has a mouse option..
Jun 28 11:34:17 <jani> =-----------)
Jun 28 11:34:30 <henkt> jani, ok I am runing it now
Jun 28 11:36:45 <henkt> yes it complied it now
Jun 28 11:36:52 <henkt> how to run it?
Jun 28 11:37:08 <jani> ./helloWorld
Jun 28 11:37:12 <henkt> yes I get it
Jun 28 11:37:58 <henkt> I belive If I master GTK I wont do that much to work with maemo
Jun 28 11:39:16 <jani> prolly noone knows but i got to ask again, anyone familiar with dbus-monitor ?
Jun 28 11:40:14 <zuh> jani: What about it?
Jun 28 11:40:26 <gwak__> jani: have you tried the maemo mailing list?
Jun 28 11:41:52 <cy-> hmm
Jun 28 11:41:58 <cy-> is there vncserver available at all?
Jun 28 11:42:44 <jani> havent yet.
Jun 28 11:43:24 <cy-> oo nice, dsniff
Jun 28 11:46:25 <rwhitby-n800> cy-: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/x11vnc/
Jun 28 11:47:38 <rwhitby> but no files there.  x11vnc is what you are looking for though
Jun 28 11:47:51 <cy-> yeah absolutely
Jun 28 11:47:52 <cy-> that'd be nice
Jun 28 11:47:57 <cy-> :(  hopefully soon!
Jun 28 11:48:27 <cy-> people actually running different window managers on this thing?
Jun 28 11:48:32 <cy-> I see all this gnome stuff
Jun 28 11:48:40 <rwhitby> cy-: x11vnc does exist - I just can't find it again now
Jun 28 11:48:59 <cy-> the server?
Jun 28 11:49:04 <cy-> or just the client?  I've seen the client..
Jun 28 11:49:13 <rwhitby> server
Jun 28 11:49:27 <cy-> that'd be dope
Jun 28 11:51:03 <rwhitby> found it: http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702
Jun 28 11:53:37 <rwhitby-n800> I'm typing this via it now ...
Jun 28 11:54:41 <cy-> interesting
Jun 28 11:54:45 <cy-> I guess I'll give it a whirle
Jun 28 11:54:48 <cy-> -e
Jun 28 11:54:49 <cy-> :)
Jun 28 12:02:39 <konttori> Have you guys seen the new york times' iphone diary? It's quite cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcRfAaIb2Ro
Jun 28 12:02:59 <konttori> Anybody on n800/770 should naturally use uktube to view that ;)
Jun 28 12:08:53 <jani> there's no mmc slot in iphone ?
Jun 28 12:09:15 <konttori> Is there one in the ipods? ;)
Jun 28 12:09:33 <rwhitby> cy-: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/n800/using-vncserver-on-the-nokia-n800.html
Jun 28 12:09:46 <jani> obviously not =)
Jun 28 12:10:02 <jani> how much free space there is for user data then ?
Jun 28 12:10:32 <gwak__> jani: i thought i read the OS is~300MB
Jun 28 12:10:46 <rwhitby> konttori: using uktube for that right now :-)
Jun 28 12:10:55 <konttori> great!
Jun 28 12:10:57 <rwhitby> konttori: worked out google videos yet? ;-)
Jun 28 12:11:01 <unique311> jani...made some small changes to the script..was using way too many commands..
Jun 28 12:11:12 <unique311> all i'm using now is the mv command..
Jun 28 12:11:52 <unique311> rename the icons directory to make the cursor visible after restart..
Jun 28 12:11:59 <konttori> Well, if someone tells me how I can retrieve the content, I can implement it, but when I had a quick look at the google video pages, they seemed a bit messed up and I thought that google will be killing it soon anyway, so why bother... but really, I would like to do it.
Jun 28 12:12:13 <unique311> and to make it transparent again just rename it back to icons..
Jun 28 12:12:27 <jani> you could just do symlinks, its propably slightly faster than mv'ing files/dirs around ..
Jun 28 12:12:28 <konttori> Just haven't had the time/energy. I'm having a flu at the moment. 38 degrees of fever (well, light fever).
Jun 28 12:13:17 <unique311> the .icons folder is already a symlink.
Jun 28 12:13:52 <unique311> renaming it is the best i can do....it works now..so thats good.
Jun 28 12:14:15 <jani> that kill hup also worked ?
Jun 28 12:14:21 <unique311> no
Jun 28 12:14:24 <unique311> didn't try it..
Jun 28 12:14:34 <unique311> not sure about Xomap handling this..
Jun 28 12:14:53 <unique311> well wtf might as well i
Jun 28 12:15:19 <jani> hehe.
Jun 28 12:15:27 <jani> it shuts down the whole platform ;))
Jun 28 12:15:42 <jani> well, restarts it from group up itseems
Jun 28 12:15:58 <cy-> rwhitby: noice, works great!
Jun 28 12:16:25 <rwhitby> konttori: can you add a second button to uktube: "Download Only" ?
Jun 28 12:17:23 <konttori> I added it already.
Jun 28 12:17:33 <konttori> I'm writing a blog to launch 0.5 version
Jun 28 12:17:48 <unique311> ok
Jun 28 12:18:07 <unique311> doing the whole kill -HUP think to xomap is a bad idea
Jun 28 12:18:19 <unique311> it basically restarts the danm thing..
Jun 28 12:18:29 <cy-> rwhitby: not accepting mouse clicks though
Jun 28 12:19:46 <unique311> i'm thinking the script and a restart will definitely be necessary...if you want to use synergy with a visible mouse...
Jun 28 12:19:54 <rwhitby> cy-: does for me, just not in the left hand side area
Jun 28 12:19:59 <cy-> yeah
Jun 28 12:20:03 <cy-> okay.. same here
Jun 28 12:20:10 <cy-> well that kind of sucks cause you can't launch apps then :P
Jun 28 12:20:21 <rwhitby> um, did you read my blog entry?
Jun 28 12:20:21 <unique311> but if you want a visible mouse pointer indefinite..just remove run the script once with -visible.
Jun 28 12:27:58 <konttori> UKTUBE 0.5 is out now.
Jun 28 12:27:59 <konttori> http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/06/uktube-05-out.html
Jun 28 12:28:35 <cy-> rwhitby: that's really nice for stream tuner
Jun 28 12:28:39 <konttori> rwitby: It should make you happy
Jun 28 12:32:26 <cy-> rwhitby: http://maemo.org/wiki/notfound/How_to_use_x11vnc_to_%27drive%27_the_N800_from_a_PC is not available.
Jun 28 12:33:31 <rwhitby> cy-: not much I can do about that - it's not my page
Jun 28 12:33:48 <rwhitby> konttori: installing now :-)
Jun 28 12:33:54 <konttori> cool
Jun 28 12:34:03 <konttori> let me know if you hit any rough edges.
Jun 28 12:35:42 <rwhitby> Hmm - I selected an existing .flv file from the mem card, and hit "Show Original Aspect" but it doesn't seem to play
Jun 28 12:36:17 <rwhitby> ok, a different one worked
Jun 28 12:36:42 <rwhitby> konttori: now you just need a "Delete" button for vidcasts
Jun 28 12:37:00 <konttori> but there is the save checkbox.
Jun 28 12:37:05 <konttori> Isn't that enough?
Jun 28 12:37:13 <rwhitby> here's my use case:
Jun 28 12:37:26 <rwhitby> 1) use uktube to download a heap of videoa
Jun 28 12:37:28 <rwhitby> videos
Jun 28 12:37:31 <rwhitby> 2) catch the bus
Jun 28 12:37:39 <rwhitby> 3) watch each, and delete after watching
Jun 28 12:37:53 <rwhitby> 4) end up with space on the memory card for the next download session
Jun 28 12:38:06 <rwhitby> 5) start work :-(
Jun 28 12:38:33 <konttori> All right. For the 0.6 version then.
Jun 28 12:38:51 <rwhitby> with that, uktube would replace the MPlayer GUI application for me.
Jun 28 12:39:01 <konttori> otoh, you can always do that in the filemanager.
Jun 28 12:39:10 <cy-> rwhitby: yeah.. is there a way to launch apps from a vnc client tho?
Jun 28 12:39:14 <rwhitby> oooh - too many clicks!
Jun 28 12:39:25 <cy-> rwhitby: that dead link indicates that there is, heh
Jun 28 12:39:52 <rwhitby> watch, one click to delete, watch next, one click to delete.  (I come from a Palm Treo background - maximum of 3 clicks for every operation)
Jun 28 12:40:53 <rwhitby> konttori: for bonus points, make the selection box move to the next video in the list after you delete one.  saves another two clicks if you're watching a set of videos in order.
Jun 28 12:41:34 <konttori> Now you're pushing it ;)
Jun 28 12:41:42 <rwhitby> cy-: use the Function keys like I explained in http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/n800/using-vncserver-on-the-nokia-n800.html
Jun 28 12:41:42 <konttori> I'll think about it.
Jun 28 12:42:06 <rwhitby> konttori: admit it - you *love* this feedback.  (I'm an open source author too - so I know you do)
Jun 28 12:43:00 <rwhitby> you'll play coy on the IRC channel, but secretly go an implement the feature while I sleep ;-)
Jun 28 12:43:09 <konttori> The only thing is that I'd like to make a proper client soon (and not only this 'tool'), so that's why I'm not too eager to keep on improving this one too much.
Jun 28 12:43:22 <konttori> and yeah, feedback is always a bliss
Jun 28 12:43:48 <rwhitby> konttori: can it queue downloads?
Jun 28 12:44:02 <rwhitby> (i.e. paste, paste, paste, paste, download them all overnight)
Jun 28 12:44:56 <konttori> that's a good idea. i've been thinking about that as well.
Jun 28 12:47:00 <konttori> Cool, a chart on five reviews on iphone: http://valleywag.com/tech/critical-consensus/the-iphone-scorecard-272765.php
Jun 28 12:48:34 <rwhitby> konttori: see the openmoko announcement today?
Jun 28 12:48:39 <konttori> nope
Jun 28 12:49:34 <rwhitby> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-June/000013.html
Jun 28 12:52:27 <cy-> rwhitby: oh, thanks.  I must have missed that URL the first time
Jun 28 13:00:40 <gomia1> hi :-)
Jun 28 13:01:24 <gomiam> can anyone point me to a command-line driven method for N800 touch calibration?
Jun 28 13:01:44 <konttori> Oh! OpenMoko included 3d accelometers in the device. Very wise.
Jun 28 13:01:45 <gomiam> or, barring that, an explanation about how the calibration program works?
Jun 28 13:02:17 <konttori> also graphics accelerator sounds very good.
Jun 28 13:03:18 <inz> konttori, you mean FIC included 3d accelometers in the Neo 1973
Jun 28 13:03:21 <konttori> I hope nokia is able to get the accelerator license in the future.
Jun 28 13:03:25 <konttori> yeah.
Jun 28 13:03:30 <Okko> skype out yet?
Jun 28 13:05:15 <konttori> nope. blogs seem to say it'll come in the mid july. But who knows
Jun 28 13:06:17 <Okko> good to know. I thought they said june in january. :)
Jun 28 13:10:11 <konttori> I think that's the firmware schedule. some blogs said skype will be a separate app.
Jun 28 13:10:59 <Okko> firmware for what?
Jun 28 13:11:22 <konttori> n800
Jun 28 13:11:31 <Okko> unrelated to skype?
Jun 28 13:11:42 <konttori> might be. not sure.
Jun 28 13:12:14 <gwak__> from the screenshoot of skype on the n800 id does not look so integreated
Jun 28 13:12:21 <gomiam> ermm... any apt-get dist-upgrade that requires getting rid of osso-core or osso-core-busybox will probably break my N800, right?
Jun 28 13:12:29 <gwak__> me thinks it will be a seperate add-on
Jun 28 13:12:53 <Jaffa> Evidence suggests that OS 2007 releases pretty much *only* happen these days to enable high-profile third party apps (like Rhapsody, Skype etc.)
Jun 28 13:14:44 <gwak__> Jaffa:that sounds resonable ,but i still think i will not be bundled w/ the firmware
Jun 28 13:20:11 <konttori> A nice article on psion 5 series. Man, I loved that device. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/26/psion_special/
Jun 28 13:20:21 <lardman> Yes, it was an interesting read
Jun 28 13:20:28 <lardman> and cool device too
Jun 28 13:20:31 <Jaffa> Especially for an Andrew Orlowski article ;-)
Jun 28 13:20:37 <gwak__> loved my series 3 and revo !
Jun 28 13:21:20 <lardman> OPL was pretty cool, first thing I learned to program with
Jun 28 13:21:36 <lardman> accessible as the article says
Jun 28 13:21:58 <gwak__> there was the converter app that convert metric<->imperial fluid<->mass and tons more stuff i didnt understand
Jun 28 13:22:20 <gla55> hmm
Jun 28 13:22:24 <lardman> on the revo? I had a 3/3a/5
Jun 28 13:22:25 <gla55> opl. had forgotten about that
Jun 28 13:22:36 <gla55> there was opl for s60 1st/2nd ed
Jun 28 13:23:03 <lardman> But then dropped?
Jun 28 13:23:13 <gla55> i'm not aware of anyone porting it to 3rd ed
Jun 28 13:23:22 <gomiam> I see... the calibration data goes into /etc/pointercal
Jun 28 13:23:33 <gla55>  http://opl-dev.sourceforge.net/oplseries60.html
Jun 28 13:23:36 <gomiam> now I only need to make sense of the numbers in there.
Jun 28 13:24:17 <konttori> Would be much more interesting if they had python + pygame for s60 (IMHO)
Jun 28 13:24:27 <lardman> gla55: Is the runtime OS?
Jun 28 13:24:38 <konttori> OTOH: Java pretty much handles the same thing
Jun 28 13:25:13 <gwak__> have to wonder what Symbian would be like if they would of opened it up back in 2000
Jun 28 13:25:25 <jani> there is python for s60  i think.
Jun 28 13:25:27 <konttori> I made a mah jongg game for n-gage with java. Pretty cool stuff. java is quite fast on those devices.
Jun 28 13:25:36 <konttori> jani: yeah, but no pygame.
Jun 28 13:25:43 <gla55> lardman: i think so.. hmm
Jun 28 13:25:49 <jani> yeah, i was just googling for that.
Jun 28 13:26:01 <lardman> While we're talking about python, can one create semi-transparent windows somehow?
Jun 28 13:26:19 <ttuttle> ericz: "Jun 28, 2007   5:48 AM   Left origin   IRVING, TX" =D
Jun 28 13:26:41 <ttuttle> ericz: "Estimated delivery   Jun 30, 2007" 8D
Jun 28 13:27:35 <konttori> In psion, there was always the possibility to embed a drawing to just about anywhere. Now, that's something missing from maemo.
Jun 28 13:27:42 <konttori> it would really be great to have it
Jun 28 13:28:08 <lardman> Cool, the runtime is opensource
Jun 28 13:28:09 <konttori> especially with a lazy-draw kind of smoothing filter.
Jun 28 13:29:04 <konttori> lardman: take a screenshot of the background, and draw 50% white rect over it and then whatever you want to draw over that?
Jun 28 13:29:53 <lardman> konttori: I had thought of that, was wondering if there was an automatic way
Jun 28 13:30:05 <konttori> ahh... not that I know of.
Jun 28 13:30:12 <lardman> thanks
Jun 28 13:30:23 <konttori> as maemo platform doesn't support transparency (yet)
Jun 28 13:30:47 <konttori> So, if you really need to have such transparency, then pygame is the way to go I think.
Jun 28 13:30:57 <ttuttle> Transparency is dumb.
Jun 28 13:31:00 <lardman> bring on support for the PowerVR MBX ;)
Jun 28 13:31:06 <konttori> Drawing there is relatively fast, so it might work pretty well in many cases
Jun 28 13:31:07 <ttuttle> All it does is make things harder to read.
Jun 28 13:31:21 <konttori> lardman: indeed!
Jun 28 13:31:30 <gwak__> ttuttle: i would like transparent virtual keyboards
Jun 28 13:31:46 <gwak__> but yea its mainly eye candy
Jun 28 13:31:46 <lardman> ttuttle: Yes, but if it's not stuff you really need to read, or you don't want to adjust the screen layout it might be useful
Jun 28 13:32:01 <lardman> gwak__: Likewise
Jun 28 13:32:58 <ttuttle> lardman: Well, if it's unimportant, don't show it, and if it's more important than what's below, make it opaque :-b
Jun 28 13:33:06 <lardman> :)
Jun 28 13:33:28 <lardman> On-screen keyboards make apps feel claustrophobic
Jun 28 13:33:51 <lardman> So even if you don't actually gain much, it feels nicer to use because you can see more of the screen
Jun 28 13:34:20 <ttuttle> lardman: Hmm.  I guess I see what you mean.
Jun 28 13:34:51 <jani> konttori: do you work for nokia ? =)
Jun 28 13:34:59 <ttuttle> lardman: What Nokia needs to make is a ~$30-$40 Bluetooth thumb-typing keyboard that clips onto the bottom of the N770/800.
Jun 28 13:35:11 <konttori> jani: nope
Jun 28 13:35:21 <lardman> Yes, a cheapo bt kb would be good
Jun 28 13:35:39 <lardman> http://pocketworkstation.org/ shows an example of a transparent keyboard for the Zaurus 5500
Jun 28 13:35:53 <suihkulokki> konttori: why don't you provide a .install file for ukmp ?
Jun 28 13:36:03 <gomiam> oh, so true. Cheapest Bt one I have found is a one-handed one that won't show on the manufacturer's page, anyway :-D
Jun 28 13:36:20 <konttori> suihkulokki: because I don't have a repo that would contain python as well.
Jun 28 13:36:26 <konttori> As without that, what's the point
Jun 28 13:36:40 <lardman> It would be nice if people with BT keyboard would start a wiki page, the thread on the forum is sooo long now & confusing
Jun 28 13:36:44 <gomiam> almost all Bluetooth keyboards cost more than EUR80
Jun 28 13:37:04 <suihkulokki> konttori: maemo extras ?
Jun 28 13:37:11 <konttori> Nokia should bundle a BT KB with the device for a small added extra (like 30 euros)
Jun 28 13:37:31 <konttori> suhkulokki: too hard to upload. I've been complaining about that for a while.
Jun 28 13:37:45 <konttori> And I'm not sure if pyhon is in there even now.
Jun 28 13:38:21 <konttori> suihkulokki: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation.html
Jun 28 13:38:33 <konttori> python install even itself needs two repositories at the moment.
Jun 28 13:39:00 <suihkulokki> konttori: why is that?
Jun 28 13:39:17 <konttori> Well, some dependencies in the other one.
Jun 28 13:39:41 <konttori> and they are probably debian fanatics who believe that you shouldn't duplicate packages in multiple repos.
Jun 28 13:39:52 <konttori> Or something. Go figure.
Jun 28 13:40:28 <suihkulokki> well that's just broken
Jun 28 13:40:53 * gomiam gets ready to twiddle /etc/pointercal a bit (perhaps I'll be able to type again)
Jun 28 13:40:57 <suihkulokki> user should just click in ukmp.install link and that's it
Jun 28 13:43:01 <konttori> suihkulokki: I completely agree
Jun 28 13:43:42 <konttori> But it's too much trouble for me to maintain a repo containing all the dependencies. Thus I've been asking Nokia to make it happen that it would be easier for developers to upload to the extras repo.
Jun 28 13:44:45 <gomiam> quick question: which is the physical touchscreen precision on the N800?
Jun 28 13:45:11 <gomiam> these /etc/pointercal numbers don't make much sense yet O:-)
Jun 28 13:45:42 <suihkulokki> gomiam: you can get to the screen calibration with just the device keys
Jun 28 13:46:00 <gomiam> yes, but it still doesn't calibrate correctly
Jun 28 13:46:23 <suihkulokki> gomiam: what happens?
Jun 28 13:46:39 <gomiam> well, the upper part goes well, more or less
Jun 28 13:47:03 <gomiam> but there's always an upward deviation when reaching the lower part of the screen
Jun 28 13:47:12 <gomiam> (up to three mm)
Jun 28 13:47:22 <gomiam> as such, sometimes I can't even press the space bar
Jun 28 13:47:44 <gomiam> I've been trying clicking on different places on the calibration screen
Jun 28 13:47:51 <gomiam> and I'm unable to sort it out.
Jun 28 13:48:03 <lardman> what's the format of the file, how many numbers?
Jun 28 13:48:10 <gomiam> seven numbers
Jun 28 13:48:16 <gomiam> a,b,c,d,e,fs
Jun 28 13:48:17 <lardman> http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-embedded-interest/2002-03/thread00058-0.html or similar
Jun 28 13:48:18 <gomiam> oops
Jun 28 13:49:05 <gomiam> oh, thanks. I had reached those equations search for "pointercal" on Google
Jun 28 13:49:12 <gomiam> but no that page, it seems.
Jun 28 13:49:27 <guardian> please, from Makefile.am i'm trying to do ARCH= $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH) but it doesn't work. does autoconf or automake provide an equivalent variable ???
Jun 28 13:51:39 <gomiam> now I only need to know which corner the (0,0) coordinate is at :-)
Jun 28 13:51:51 <konttori> top left
Jun 28 13:51:56 <gomiam> oh, thanks
Jun 28 13:52:16 <gomiam> that means I need to make the sixth number a bit larger :-)
Jun 28 13:52:36 <gomiam> (and, proportionally, the fifth, too)
Jun 28 13:53:54 <lardman> So you're suffering from the calibration not working correctly?
Jun 28 13:54:08 <gomiam> yes
Jun 28 13:54:17 <gomiam> it gets to be a bit annoying at times
Jun 28 13:54:41 <lardman> I can't see how that would happen unless the pointercal generation code & touch-to-pixel-coord translation code are different
Jun 28 13:54:46 <konttori> ahh.. my blog has made it to the planet maemo.
Jun 28 13:55:27 <gomiam> lardman: no idea, but since I can mess with it now, I can try to :-)
Jun 28 13:55:39 <gomiam> oh!
Jun 28 13:55:48 <gomiam> my modified file segfaults ts_cfg
Jun 28 13:55:57 <gomiam> I should be so lucky...
Jun 28 13:56:55 <gomiam> or perhaps ts_cfg requires a file to do its work...
Jun 28 13:57:39 <gomiam> (looks like it can't work without parameters, bleh)
Jun 28 13:59:35 <guardian> please, from Makefile.am i'm trying to do ARCH= $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH) but it doesn't work. does autoconf or automake provide an equivalent variable ???
Jun 28 14:00:37 <gomiam> no idea, guardian
Jun 28 14:05:19 <jani> im allmost 100% sure that there's variable for that architecture =)
Jun 28 14:05:55 <robtaylor> guardian: of course, from autoconf
Jun 28 14:06:07 <robtaylor> guardian: what are you trying to do?
Jun 28 14:07:20 <guardian> i have a static library, already compiled for armel and i386 somewhere in my project directory tree
Jun 28 14:07:32 <lardman> Hmm, on https://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto/, the DSP Programming link is a bit screwed up. Any ideas?
Jun 28 14:07:47 <guardian> i would like to link against the proper .a depending on what's returned by dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH
Jun 28 14:07:53 <guardian> lardman: fill a bug ? :)
Jun 28 14:08:06 <latzko> hi
Jun 28 14:08:13 <guardian> so i'm trying to put this line into my Makefile.am
Jun 28 14:08:24 <guardian> ARCH = $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH)
Jun 28 14:08:34 <lardman> guardian: I filled in the page yesterday (though confusingly it lost the leading D), and now it both thinks it needs to be created and complains it's akready there
Jun 28 14:09:06 <gomiam> well, I'll be damned. I must have forgotten that a calibration attempt requires restarting the GUI (which I usually achieve by rebooting)
Jun 28 14:09:07 <guardian> and this is what automake says
Jun 28 14:09:07 <guardian> src/Makefile.am:10: shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH: non-POSIX variable name
Jun 28 14:09:08 <guardian> src/Makefile.am:10: (probably a GNU make extension)
Jun 28 14:09:20 <gomiam> ok, now it works as it's supposed to.
Jun 28 14:09:23 <gomiam> whew
Jun 28 14:09:36 <guardian> any idea robtaylor  ?
Jun 28 14:10:50 <gomiam> ok, thanks for the help and goodbye (must get back to studying)
Jun 28 14:14:41 <latzko> I like to setup an sdk_x86 target according to INSTALL.txt but the recent rootstrap fails to excract and the older one I installed successfuly months ago is good, but apt-get -f install wants to remove the half system, please help
Jun 28 14:15:43 <guardian> latzko: tried the installation scripts ? they work like a charm
Jun 28 14:15:45 <lardman> hmm, anyone else found that Latex doesn't work in maemo2.1 scratchbox?
Jun 28 14:17:03 <latzko> guardian I did it months ago, should I reinstall sbox too?
Jun 28 14:17:20 <guardian> don't know
Jun 28 14:17:32 <guardian> i would try to reinstall sdk first
Jun 28 14:17:34 <guardian> if it fails
Jun 28 14:17:39 <lardman> no idea either I'm afraid
Jun 28 14:17:40 <guardian> wipe scratchbox, reinstall then reinstall sdk
Jun 28 14:17:57 <guardian> just backup your srcratchbox home
Jun 28 14:18:58 <latzko> Actually my working target has messed up today, I reinstalled sdk twice but nothing changes
Jun 28 14:19:11 <latzko> yes, this one left...
Jun 28 14:19:12 <lardman> Latex gurus, I get this message within scratchbox: http://pastebin.ca/593714
Jun 28 14:19:25 <lardman> latzko: Did you re-extract all of scratchbox too?
Jun 28 14:19:45 <zuh> "latex gurus" :)
Jun 28 14:19:59 <lardman> yeah, sounds a bit dodgy
Jun 28 14:20:17 <latzko> I removed the target, setup it, and rootstrap the sdk
Jun 28 14:20:45 <guardian> maybe you updated your system and you're facing a side effect
Jun 28 14:21:29 <lardman> latzko: I had some troubles at one point when I ran out of space while it was extracting to the hidden directory, I couldn't get it to work even once I freed more space
Jun 28 14:22:01 <lardman> latzko: I'd be tempted to rm -rf /scratchbox and start from scratch
Jun 28 14:22:01 <latzko> oh,. I will check
Jun 28 14:22:13 <latzko> ok
Jun 28 14:22:22 <latzko> so thanks :)
Jun 28 14:22:42 <latzko> I will reinstall sbox
Jun 28 14:22:43 <lardman> the hidden directory is in the targets directory (can't remember exact name)
Jun 28 14:22:46 <lardman> ok
Jun 28 14:23:37 <latzko> I have 668M free space for that partition
Jun 28 14:24:24 <lardman> hmm, no more ideas I'm afraid other than delete & start again. Sorry
Jun 28 14:25:05 <KaylaKaze> I'm having a problem with my 2.2 SDK where the cascading menus don't work and the taskbar doesn't list running programs, and is somewhat corrupted visually. No one was able to help yhesterday. Anyone here today think they may have a solution?
Jun 28 14:52:11 <cy-> hmm
Jun 28 14:52:48 <cy-> any noticable performance boost in bumping the virtual memory in control panel?
Jun 28 15:07:05 <||cw> cy-: yes
Jun 28 15:28:47 <bstock> anyone know where to get a good 12pt theme for 770? i found this: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/12pt-14pt-os2006-themes/ but there's no way to install it or find the location of any deb files or anything
Jun 28 15:41:34 <guardian> is there a way i can know i'm building for armel from configure.ac without relying on dpkg-architecture debian specific command ?
Jun 28 16:00:43 <trevarthan> I rewrote ukmp to use mplayer. A2DPD now works with the touch of a button from ukmp. :) I've got some finishing touches to put on it, then I'll release the rewrite sometime next week, I think.
Jun 28 16:06:00 <ttuttle> mplayer++!
Jun 28 16:10:41 <Brenduh> is there a easy way to put the 770 back to factory settings?
Jun 28 16:11:14 <nomis> Brenduh: reflash it.
Jun 28 16:11:24 <Brenduh> how do you do that?
Jun 28 16:12:40 <nomis> Brenduh: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/
Jun 28 16:13:19 <gla55> for windows there is nokias official flasher/updater
Jun 28 16:14:11 <Brenduh> I have windows... I don't have a clue how to do that execute as root stuff
Jun 28 16:14:26 <Brenduh> ahh so go to nokia and do an update
Jun 28 16:49:10 <kakos> So, is a new firmware being released today?
Jun 28 16:51:02 <ericz> ttuttle, mine arrived in irving, texas last night, and delivery date is the 3rd now, this morning it departed irving
Jun 28 16:53:36 <Brenduh> mine still doesn't say it has shipped, but I got it yesterday
Jun 28 16:54:03 <Brenduh> oh wait just got an email it's shipped
Jun 28 16:54:06 <Brenduh> lol
Jun 28 16:54:21 <Jari--> what sort of audio libraries does Maemo implement usually, I mean with gstreamer you can for example use OSS, I guess Maemo platform isn't OSS compliant?
Jun 28 16:58:37 <KaylaKaze> can someone do me a favor and tell me how this sheet looks and functions on IT Opera? http://kaylakaze.sytes.net/DDCharSheet.php (you can edit the "Bio" text and the logo disappears when clicked
Jun 28 17:07:13 <ttuttle> Yeah, what is up with audio?
Jun 28 17:25:57 <ericz> ttuttle, where's your package?
Jun 28 17:33:59 <zuh> KaylaKaze: http://iki.fi/zuh/with-logo.png http://iki.fi/zuh/without-logo.png http://iki.fi/zuh/editing.png http://iki.fi/zuh/bottom.png
Jun 28 17:34:57 <zuh> ie. quite well
Jun 28 17:35:10 <zuh> erm, "renders quite well"
Jun 28 17:35:42 <KaylaKaze> Thank you. That looks great! :-)
Jun 28 18:28:29 <edistar> is there a sniffer like kismet or so?
Jun 28 18:29:42 <edistar> is there a sniffer like kismet or so?
Jun 28 18:36:45 <`0660> edistar, yes there is
Jun 28 18:36:46 <kulve> edistar: for n800? Tried googling? "n800 kismet"
Jun 28 18:37:48 <chrissturm> I am having trouble installing this package: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/ruby185/
Jun 28 18:38:04 <chrissturm> when I click "Click to install" it shows the install file as text
Jun 28 18:38:29 <kulve> chrissturm: buggy mime type.
Jun 28 18:39:08 <chrissturm> its the first app in downloads at the maemo site
Jun 28 18:39:27 <kulve> try adding the repo manually to application manager and then install the package from there
Jun 28 18:39:32 <chrissturm> ok
Jun 28 18:40:15 <chrissturm> is there an easy way to copy/paste the url from the text file? I got my n800 today and i am totally new to it
Jun 28 18:40:27 <kulve> chrissturm: not really :)
Jun 28 18:40:45 <kulve> double click + paint the text should work but it's damn hard
Jun 28 18:41:48 <guardian> evening maemo
Jun 28 18:42:20 <kulve> chrissturm: that ruby install file is  "application/octet-stream". It should be "application/x-install-instructions" for the app.mgr. to realize it
Jun 28 18:42:37 <kulve> or browser actually..
Jun 28 18:42:54 <chrissturm> application/octet-stream is probably the default mimetype
Jun 28 18:43:42 <chrissturm> it feels strange that theres no easy way to paste
Jun 28 18:43:56 <kulve> chrissturm: I think it is meant to be easy, but it's not
Jun 28 18:46:27 <kulve> I have a .htaccess file in my .install file directory, which contains single line:
Jun 28 18:46:30 <kulve> AddType application/x-install-instructions .install
Jun 28 18:46:45 <chrissturm> strange, I have the maeomo extras repository added, but there seems to be no ruby package
Jun 28 18:49:52 <chrissturm> is there a way to use osx to build maemo apps, or do i need a linux box?
Jun 28 18:50:41 <kulve> you need linux box (for scratchbox)
Jun 28 18:50:46 <chrissturm> hmm, installing that deb also doesnt work: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1645/ruby-1.8.5_0.1_armel.deb
Jun 28 18:50:59 <chrissturm> is armel the n770?
Jun 28 18:51:00 <kulve> or if there's vmware for osx, you can use a ready made image for that
Jun 28 18:51:11 <chrissturm> ah, yes, I have vmware
Jun 28 18:51:29 <kulve> http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/702
Jun 28 18:51:37 <kulve> check that out
Jun 28 18:51:56 <kulve> (I haven't tried it)
Jun 28 18:52:39 <edistar> does it tell my the signal trength in kismet?
Jun 28 18:52:41 <kulve> what do you mean by "also doesnt work"?
Jun 28 18:53:11 <kulve> edistar: I don't know the details of kismet in n800. I have tried on 770 long time ago..
Jun 28 18:53:25 <edistar> I am using it in the 770
Jun 28 18:53:34 <edistar> on the 770..
Jun 28 18:55:03 <kulve> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2007-March/004743.html
Jun 28 18:55:09 <kulve> "Kismet on Nokia 770: no signal strength?"
Jun 28 18:55:38 <kulve> edistar: try googling. It seems to give quite much information (or at least unanswered questions ;)
Jun 28 18:56:03 <chrissturm> kulve: the application manager says "Unable to install. Incompatible application package"
Jun 28 18:56:09 <edistar> kulve: I just have never used kismet, where does it show me the strengh in the 'gui'?
Jun 28 18:57:30 <kulve> edistar: sorry, I can't help. I don't remember much of it (used it just a little)..
Jun 28 18:57:38 <kulve> chrissturm: odd..
Jun 28 18:58:37 <edistar>  ok
Jun 28 18:58:49 <kulve> chrissturm: actually it just maybe the normal issue: it uses debian sections and not maemo modified sections..
Jun 28 18:59:48 <chrissturm> the creator of the package could have at least tried it once :)
Jun 28 18:59:48 <kulve> chrissturm: you may install it from command line as root, or change the app.mgr. to "red pill mode". But you shouldn't do either if you don't know what you are doing or don't fraid braking your device
Jun 28 19:00:59 <kulve> the section doesn't matter, if you install it as a dependency for something else (i.e. install package X which depends on ruby..)
Jun 28 19:02:09 <chrissturm> kulve: I'm used to deb based distros so I think I will just try it
Jun 28 19:02:29 <chrissturm> just connect via ssh, and then dpkg -i ...
Jun 28 19:02:32 <kulve> yeah
Jun 28 19:02:44 <kulve> that's a very common thing I do..
Jun 28 19:06:01 <m-vo> chrissturm, red-pill-mode is not dangerous, but if you are comfortable with apt-get and dpkg, those are more convenient for 'power use'.
Jun 28 19:06:50 <chrissturm> ok, I'm just toying around to get used to the device, and if it breaks i can just reinstall
Jun 28 19:07:02 <chrissturm> btw, how can I see what firmware revision I have?
Jun 28 19:07:18 <kulve> cat /etc/osso_software_version
Jun 28 19:07:39 <kulve> since you using ssh ;)
Jun 28 19:08:25 <chrissturm> what do i use for ssh? dropbear-server?
Jun 28 19:08:33 <kulve> otherwise there's a "device" or something like that in control panel
Jun 28 19:08:38 <kulve> I use ssh
Jun 28 19:08:50 <kulve> or is it "openssh"
Jun 28 19:08:58 <kulve> I installed it in the red pill mode
Jun 28 19:09:07 <kulve> only sw I used red pill for..
Jun 28 19:09:16 <kulve> but dropbear should work just fine
Jun 28 19:09:46 <chrissturm> red pill mode sounds interesting. gotta read up on it
Jun 28 19:10:17 <kulve> most importantly it enables you to install any debian armel package
Jun 28 19:10:31 <kulve> it did have some other features too, but I'm never used them
Jun 28 19:10:45 <kulve> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationManagerRedPillMode
Jun 28 19:11:50 <kulve> oh, "It would list the dependencies of a package in the "Details" dialog." is a red pill feature..
Jun 28 19:12:39 <chrissturm> ha, thats funny
Jun 28 19:16:33 <m-vo> kulve, yeah, but it's a pretty useless feature, I always turn it off.
Jun 28 19:16:57 <m-vo> Debugging of dependencies is better done with apt-cache etc.
Jun 28 19:17:12 <m-vo> (of course, the AM tells you always about missing dependencies.)
Jun 28 19:17:14 <chrissturm> in what package can i find openssh?
Jun 28 19:17:16 <chrissturm> eh, repo
Jun 28 19:21:34 <cfh> hi all
Jun 28 19:22:02 <cfh> i m searching a way to use a SIP account with astersik and N800
Jun 28 19:22:10 <cfh> are there some client ?
Jun 28 19:23:45 <kulve> chrissturm:
Jun 28 19:23:45 <kulve> apt-cache policy ssh
Jun 28 19:23:48 <kulve>         500 http://repository.maemo.org bora/free Packages
Jun 28 19:24:05 <kulve> hmm..
Jun 28 19:24:44 <kulve> actually I'm not sure if it's just repository.maemo.org or /extras
Jun 28 19:26:00 <m-vo> use apt-cache showpkg ssh
Jun 28 19:27:09 <kulve> 1:3.8p1-3osso7(/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-armel_Packages)(/var/lib/dpkg/status)
Jun 28 19:27:21 <kulve> that's the only line saying anything about repos..
Jun 28 19:27:37 <m-vo> (that means, just repository.maemo.org, no extras)
Jun 28 19:28:19 <kulve> yeah, so it seems
Jun 28 19:31:32 <cfh> are there sip client for maemo ?
Jun 28 19:32:37 <kulve> something not finished at least..
Jun 28 19:32:42 <kulve> gizmo?
Jun 28 19:33:31 <cfh> I have try gizmo but is not a pure client sip , it wants use its accounts :(
Jun 28 19:34:44 <kulve> I'm off
Jun 28 20:33:00 <kakos> http://knight.lambdacalcul.us/personal/images/GeekHolster+FrogPad+NokiaN800.jpg
Jun 28 20:33:02 <kakos> MUWHAHAHAHA
Jun 28 20:41:44 <chrissturm> is there a nice tutorial on how to build a maemo deb from a gnome app?
Jun 28 20:44:25 <melmoth> not exactly , but there is a porting document
Jun 28 20:44:42 <melmoth> if it s agnome app , it may be tricky,a s all gnome lib are not there
Jun 28 20:44:56 <chrissturm> its a gtk app
Jun 28 20:44:56 <melmoth> if its simply a gtk one, it should be realtively easy
Jun 28 20:45:35 <melmoth> http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_porting_to_maemo_bora.html
Jun 28 20:47:40 <chrissturm> This document describes how maemo 2.X applications can be ported to the maemo 3.0 environment
Jun 28 20:48:19 <melmoth> read again.
Jun 28 20:48:33 <melmoth> not only the orange fonts.
Jun 28 20:49:05 <chrissturm> ah ok. its 2 parts
Jun 28 20:49:08 <melmoth> :)
Jun 28 21:39:12 <edistar> is there any good chat client except gaim for irq?
Jun 28 21:39:56 <edistar> something that is a little faster?
Jun 28 21:43:51 <edistar> s/irq/icq
Jun 28 22:55:01 <kakos> Why doesn't someone add a T9-like interface to Maemo?  It seems that would make typing a lot easier
Jun 28 23:55:52 <neostrider> hello folks!
Jun 29 00:18:31 <rhys> is skype oss? is gizmo?
Jun 29 00:24:17 <rhys> gizmo is, skype isnt. why use skype?
Jun 29 00:25:39 <gla55> because someone you want to call is on skype?
Jun 29 00:26:22 <ericz> more people in general use skype, don't they?
Jun 29 00:26:38 <gla55> way more..
Jun 29 00:26:46 <Sulis> i guess when you say oss you mean open source software...not...open sound system...
Jun 29 00:36:36 <rwhitby> I can call a gizmo number from any other SIP provider for free, and vice versa.  That includes hardware ATA devices running SIP, SIP clients running on any platform (including NSLU2 or OpenMoko or N800 even if Gizmo itself wasn't ported).
Jun 29 00:36:51 <rwhitby> You can do none of that with Skype.
Jun 29 00:37:20 <rwhitby> You can also interface Asterisk with Gizmo
Jun 29 00:38:00 <ericz> didn't gizmo just setup this thing so it's chat works with AIM?
Jun 29 00:38:23 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 29 00:38:33 <rwhitby> I have gizmo chat running on my Treo650 right now
Jun 29 00:38:41 <rwhitby> (chat only, not voip)
Jun 29 00:39:15 <rwhitby> but at least I can see which of my contacts are available, and then use a local SIP free dial-in provider to call them anywhere in the world for the cost of a local call.
Jun 29 00:39:36 <Dr_Nunim> Yeah but skype has some good deals on call out as well as a large marketshare.
Jun 29 00:39:39 <rwhitby> (or use my n800 to call them if I'm in wifi range)
Jun 29 00:40:02 <rwhitby> Dr_Nunim: I made a gizmo call from Australia to a land-line in the US the other day - it went for 2 hours and I paid nothing.
Jun 29 00:40:32 <rwhitby> can't argue with the marketshare of skype.  windows has a large marketshare too :-)
Jun 29 00:40:57 <ericz> what's ekiga? is it any good?
Jun 29 00:41:26 <Dr_Nunim> If I asked the average person if they had an SIP account, they would continue to look at me as I do now.
Jun 29 00:41:40 <Dr_Nunim> but everyone has skype, hell my mother has skype and she can't turn the TV on by herself.
Jun 29 00:41:42 <rwhitby> ekiga is an open source voip client.  since it's SIP-based (a standards-based protocol) it can interoperate with Gizmo, but not with Skype.
Jun 29 00:41:51 <rwhitby> Dr_Nunim: no arguments there
Jun 29 00:41:54 <ericz> ah
Jun 29 00:42:19 <Dr_Nunim> I'm not saying Skype is a superior system but since everyone uses it, you need it.
Jun 29 00:42:44 <Dr_Nunim> I find their $30/yr for unlimited out calling to US & Canada to be fair.
Jun 29 00:43:44 <rwhitby> it's your choice whether you use the closed proprietary skype which reaches more people, or you use an open standards-based SIP platform like Gizmo or Ekiga and just teach the people you want to talk to to do the same.  It's a personal choice, and since I'm not a zealot I'm not going to try and change your personal choice.  Only educate as to the difference and allow you to make the choice yourself.
Jun 29 00:44:42 <Dr_Nunim> Doesn't matter to me anyway, as an 770 user my possibility of Skype is not good.
Jun 29 00:44:53 <rwhitby> I expect your mother could use Gizmo on the PC platform just as easily as Skype.
Jun 29 00:45:08 <Dr_Nunim> Probably.
Jun 29 00:45:11 <rwhitby> (without even knowing it's standards-based SIP underneath)
Jun 29 00:46:08 <rwhitby> The other thing about Skype is that you agree (when you click the EULA) to let Skype use *your* computer and network to route other people's calls.  That's something I'm not going to let any company do.
Jun 29 00:46:25 <rwhitby> Most Skype users don't realise they've agreed to do that.
Jun 29 00:47:02 <Dr_Nunim> I didn't bother to read the EULA as I usually don't but I keep it closed when not in use as I don't like random calls.
Jun 29 00:52:35 <rhys> wow i hate skype now
Jun 29 00:54:25 <rhys> whywhywhywhy
Jun 29 00:59:49 <rwhitby> so they can use your bandwidth to get better quality for others
Jun 29 01:01:10 <Dr_Nunim> Hrm with Gizmo using the 775 service does my name display on the caller id?
Jun 29 01:41:32 <cnc> is there a tutorial on setting up vnc with the 770 and a windows pc? (a simple one preferably)
Jun 29 01:50:47 <Dr_Nunim> I'd imagine, install VNC server, input IP:port into client.
Jun 29 01:56:50 <rwhitby> http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/n800/using-vncserver-on-the-nokia-n800.html
Jun 29 02:11:00 <mk500> I'm having a problem connecting to my  BT phone for internet on my HE equipped 770
Jun 29 02:11:20 <mk500> when I go to select connection, it only shows my wifi options
Jun 29 02:11:39 <mk500> sometimes, when there is little wifi around, it will suddenly auto-connect to my BT phone
Jun 29 02:12:06 <mk500> so, basically, I know my BT phone internet connection is working great, but I can't seem to control when to connect to it
Jun 29 02:12:09 <mk500> any suggestions?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 29 02:59:56 2007