**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 11 02:59:57 2007
Jul 11 03:01:41 <NeoStrider> good
Jul 11 03:01:44 <NeoStrider> and your sbox?
Jul 11 03:01:48 <NeoStrider> empty?
Jul 11 03:13:59 <NeoStrider> c ya fellows!
Jul 11 03:14:21 <egsavage> any known repository issues now? When I use the nokia install or do a apt-get update i'm getting errors
Jul 11 03:24:21 <megabyte405> make sure you don't have "extras" under Bora repository.maemo.org
Jul 11 03:24:28 <megabyte405> egsavage: ^^
Jul 11 03:33:08 <Abulafia> hi all
Jul 11 03:33:41 <egsavage> megabyte405: is that the only issue right now?
Jul 11 03:34:02 <egsavage> let me look at the list - i forget now
Jul 11 03:37:54 <Abulafia> im sorry if i missed something obvious in googling, but are there any IDEs for the n800 for perl or python?
Jul 11 03:38:20 <egsavage> i had two entries with extras - one in the url, the other with extras listed along with free and non-free
Jul 11 03:47:39 <megabyte405> Abulafia: not that are hosted on it that I know of
Jul 11 03:47:46 <megabyte405> any desktop app should be able to handle it, though
Jul 11 03:47:50 <megabyte405> since perl and python are interpreted
Jul 11 03:48:19 <Abulafia> i understand, i was just looking for something more than a shell or vim
Jul 11 03:48:54 <Abulafia> i was just hoping for a hildon IDE
Jul 11 03:50:02 <Pio> are there any mirrors where you can download os updates faster than http://www.maemo.org/downloads/nokia_770?
Jul 11 03:50:15 <febb> hi all
Jul 11 03:51:49 <Pio> err http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php
Jul 11 03:53:41 <Abulafia> btw, did anyone have downloading problems with skype? i kept getting "download failed"
Jul 11 03:54:08 <Abulafia> in the end i downloaded everything by http and used dpkg
Jul 11 03:54:41 <Abulafia> (i really hate the package manger)
Jul 11 03:54:55 <Abulafia> err... manager
Jul 11 03:55:25 <Abulafia> gah BT keyboard
Jul 11 03:57:46 <asys3> hi, anybody uses booting from mmc ?
Jul 11 03:59:28 <asys3> i want to enlarge my rootfs to prevent me from running out of space while installing apps
Jul 11 04:02:18 <febb> asys3: I did that when I had the N770 and after a while it developed some troubles due the life span of the mmc cards...
Jul 11 04:02:19 <asys3> i installed with http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ but ask myself if an enlargement of the roots still boots or causes problems?
Jul 11 04:03:01 <febb> that is the max number of write/read cycles each mmc card is rated for......
Jul 11 04:03:14 <asys3> febb:no i've used it for a long time without a problem.
Jul 11 04:03:55 <febb> cool then....   I tried several different cards... on several N770 (all company owned) and eventually most of them failed...
Jul 11 04:03:56 <asys3> febb:the problem there is if you use flash as swap!!
Jul 11 04:04:24 <febb> used both, as swap and as rootfs extension.....
Jul 11 04:05:55 <asys3> i think read/write cycle lifetime problems are somehow not real. i never had it even when swapping.
Jul 11 04:08:11 <febb> i see... well, those are my 2 cents.  indeed had trouble with "over-using" the mmc cards.... haven't tried it on the N800 tough.
Jul 11 04:14:52 <pupnik_> isn't the internal flash the same technology?  i don't see how rootfs on mmc would be any problem
Jul 11 04:15:13 <pupnik_> the most writing obviously is from swap
Jul 11 04:15:48 <asys3> pupnik:exactly!
Jul 11 04:21:14 <Abulafia> in which case it would be better to use a replaceable card anyway :-)
Jul 11 04:51:32 <jga23> anybody have a tutorial on getting maemo scratchbox running on ubuntu?
Jul 11 05:01:52 <Abulafia> http://ianlawrence.info/random-stuff/maemo-3-1-bora-on-ubuntu-feisty
Jul 11 05:02:17 <Abulafia> havent tried it myself, on the todo list
Jul 11 05:02:55 <Abulafia> actually was going to use the vm image under windows
Jul 11 05:03:53 <jga23> I have ubuntu on virtual pc, so I'm trying to install on that
Jul 11 05:04:09 <jga23> last I heard vm doesn't work well on vista, so I'm going that route
Jul 11 05:04:38 <Abulafia> http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/702
Jul 11 05:05:13 <Abulafia> ah
Jul 11 05:05:30 <Abulafia> dunno - dont use vista
Jul 11 05:08:05 <Abulafia> have you tried converting the dev vm to virtual pc?
Jul 11 05:08:51 <Abulafia> http://blogs.virtualserver.tv/blogs/dugie/archive/2006/12/14/VMware_to_Microsoft_Virtual_Machine_Conversions_with_VMDK2VHD.aspx
Jul 11 05:09:21 <jga23> sweet, thanks!
Jul 11 05:10:26 <jga23> this vm isn't the version that came out a week ago is it?
Jul 11 05:11:38 <Abulafia> i dunno
Jul 11 05:11:52 <Abulafia> like i said, its on my todo list; havent done it yet
Jul 11 05:11:55 <Abulafia> :-)
Jul 11 05:12:03 <jga23> :) k
Jul 11 05:13:58 <Abulafia> if you do it, let me know how it works out
Jul 11 05:14:52 <Abulafia> its been a long time since ive written anything but i need a frontend for openvpn
Jul 11 05:15:04 <Abulafia> so im guessing im going to be doing it myself
Jul 11 05:25:33 <ericz> anyone know if the n800 works with google calendar?
Jul 11 05:34:27 <cesman> ericz: according to the post n internettablettalk, yes
Jul 11 05:34:38 <cesman> it will sync w/ GPE
Jul 11 05:34:50 <ericz> cesman, ah, cool, thanks
Jul 11 05:34:59 <cesman> you're welcome
Jul 11 05:35:02 <ericz> what about the 770?
Jul 11 05:36:51 <Abulafia> is there a bora version of abiword?
Jul 11 05:38:04 <Abulafia> or alternatively, what are people using for wp on the n800
Jul 11 05:38:38 <Abulafia> (please don't say vi :-)
Jul 11 05:39:03 <ericz> nano? :P
Jul 11 05:39:20 <Abulafia> damn you :-)
Jul 11 05:40:23 <Abulafia> its funny, im using my n800 right now, and i've fielded the usual questions, but twice ive been asked about word processing...
Jul 11 05:40:31 <Abulafia> and i didnt have an answer
Jul 11 05:41:45 <Abulafia> actually, it was funny - someone else had an n800 at the cafe i'm sitting at... i explained to him he may want to look into changing his root password... his eyes kinda glazed over
Jul 11 05:42:04 <ericz> "root?"
Jul 11 05:42:08 <Abulafia> but in the end, he got it.
Jul 11 05:42:15 <ericz> "like in a tree?"
Jul 11 05:42:26 <Abulafia> heh.
Jul 11 05:42:39 <Abulafia> nah, i just say like "adminstrator" in windows
Jul 11 05:42:42 <Abulafia> that worked
Jul 11 05:42:46 <ericz> ah
Jul 11 05:42:56 <ericz> see, i'm not patient enough :( i'd make horrible tech support
Jul 11 05:43:07 <`0660> is there a point in changing the root password if you don't have an ssh daemon installed?
Jul 11 05:44:03 <Abulafia> cause down the line, he may do something that requires ssh (like syncing)
Jul 11 05:44:08 <Abulafia> and he wont know
Jul 11 05:44:52 <Abulafia> does dropbear server run by default?
Jul 11 05:45:04 <ericz> Abulafia, http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php?lang=en something about abiword there
Jul 11 05:45:12 <ericz> it does if you install it
Jul 11 05:46:09 <Abulafia> ericz:ta
Jul 11 05:46:35 <Abulafia> ah, its the old mistral one
Jul 11 05:46:53 <Abulafia> it doesnt work so well on the n800
Jul 11 05:46:53 <ericz> oh :/
Jul 11 05:48:07 <Abulafia> sadly, i saw some posts about updating it to work on bora
Jul 11 05:48:19 <Abulafia> or work properly
Jul 11 05:48:34 <Abulafia> but the threads seem to have died in april
Jul 11 05:50:23 <Abulafia> so, the people in the ny nokia store are nice. they gave me the one spare wired headset they had
Jul 11 05:50:35 <Abulafia> i offered to pay, and they turned me down
Jul 11 05:50:51 <Abulafia> i didnt even buy from them directly
Jul 11 06:29:49 <Komarov> what's the version of the Opera in the latest firmware?
Jul 11 07:37:11 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jul 11 07:38:30 <johann__> hmm, should i actually try to use the sdk on suse, or is it better to use some debian xen dom for it?
Jul 11 07:42:19 <pupnik_> shouldn't matter
Jul 11 07:42:31 <pupnik_> some kernels don't work though
Jul 11 07:46:29 <draeger> 777  /awazy
Jul 11 07:49:20 <jani> fedora/redhat kernel had issue with one feature by default but it could be change from commandline without reboot if i remember correctly.
Jul 11 07:50:35 <melmoth> johann__, i had the same issue on a RHEL box, i opted for xen.
Jul 11 07:51:20 <melmoth> works nice...except for some network related weirdness (gnome vfs ftp and xen bridging issue i m too lazy to try to understand)
Jul 11 07:52:30 <johann__> :-)
Jul 11 07:52:34 <johann__> ok, thank you
Jul 11 08:30:28 <sbaturzio> Aloha!
Jul 11 08:37:39 <pupnik_> sbaturzio: do you have an Aloha! script? :)
Jul 11 08:38:56 <sbaturzio> pupnik_: just fingers :)
Jul 11 08:39:57 <pupnik_> well Guten Morgen mein freund
Jul 11 08:52:57 <Mikho> is it safe to cast a GtkWindow down to HildonWindow?
Jul 11 08:53:24 <Mikho> ...a programmer shouldn't have to think things like this
Jul 11 08:53:29 <nomis> Mikho: the other way around.
Jul 11 08:53:50 <nomis> it is safe to cast a HildonWindow to a GtkWindow.
Jul 11 08:54:00 <Mikho> well that goes without saying
Jul 11 08:54:10 <nomis> no, the other way around is not safe.
Jul 11 08:54:22 <inz> Unless you know, it's a HildonWindow
Jul 11 08:54:25 <inz> -,
Jul 11 08:54:49 <Mikho> ok. The problem here is that one cannot create HildonWindows with glade
Jul 11 08:55:38 <Mikho> so I'd have to create a GtkWindow to hold all the widgets, load the xml with libglade, detach the widgets from the top level gtkwindow and attach it to a hand made HildonWindow
Jul 11 08:56:19 <Mikho> correct?
Jul 11 08:56:31 <inz> yeah
Jul 11 08:57:01 <nomis> Uh.
Jul 11 08:57:17 <inz> As GtkWindow is a GtkBin, that means that you only have to reattach the one child of the window
Jul 11 08:57:18 <nomis> Mikho: did you try changing the xml manually?
Jul 11 08:58:02 <Mikho> inz, that's how I did it, but it still felt a bit awkward
Jul 11 08:58:22 <nomis> (it actually *is* awkward  :)
Jul 11 08:58:33 <Mikho> what would changing the xml manually help?
Jul 11 08:59:10 <lardman> morning
Jul 11 08:59:15 <nomis> Mikho: at some point it describes the GtkWindow. It should be possible to exchange GtkWindow with a HildonWindow there. At least if libglade is implemented somewhat sane.
Jul 11 08:59:22 <pupnik_> hi lardman
Jul 11 08:59:28 <lardman> hi pupnik_
Jul 11 09:00:01 <inz> nomis, if it would work, you'd need to call hildon_window_get_type() before libglade tries to open the .xml
Jul 11 09:00:19 <Mikho> it's actually possible to change the window to say HildonWindow even in the editor. I just wasn't sure if it was able instantiate a HildonWindow anyway
Jul 11 09:00:22 <inz> (haven't tried, but without that, glade has no hope of finding the class HildonWindow)
Jul 11 09:00:36 <nomis> inz: shouldn't libglade do this? They need to map arbitrary strings to gobject types anyway.
Jul 11 09:01:18 <inz> nomis, mapping arbitary strings to gobjects requires that they're registered to GType system
Jul 11 09:01:33 <inz> nomis, and as libglade doesn't normally support hildon, I'm guessing they don't do that
Jul 11 09:02:29 <nomis> inz: I'm willing to bet that libglade does not a *_get_type() for all gtk widgets. That would be a waste.
Jul 11 09:03:28 <Jaffa> Interesting link to engadget from maemo-users
Jul 11 09:03:29 <Mikho> maybe I'll try
Jul 11 09:04:37 <Mikho> reattaching the windows seems to work, but I kinda hate awkward code
Jul 11 09:04:39 <inz> nomis, well, then they'd have to do go from FuckedCase to under_score, and do dlsym(NULL, under_score_get_Type) and call that
Jul 11 09:04:40 <nomis> Hmm. I kind of expected g_type_from_name() to do what I want it to, but doesn't seem so.
Jul 11 09:05:27 <inz> nomis, well, it pretty much cannot do that
Jul 11 09:06:02 <nomis> inz: the more I think about it the more I believe you're right.
Jul 11 09:06:22 <Mikho> I spent the whole yesterday fighting against "cannot find signal handler <blah>"
Jul 11 09:07:03 <inz> Mikho, what's your plan now, going single or multithread?
Jul 11 09:07:05 <nomis> well, libglade probably does evil library stuff anyway, when I think about all that autoconnect stuff.
Jul 11 09:07:16 <Mikho> but got more experience points and maybe a level when I realized c++ mangles the symbol names so libglade doesn't find them anymore
Jul 11 09:07:28 <inz> Mikho, extern "C" {}
Jul 11 09:07:33 <Mikho> inz, indeed :)
Jul 11 09:07:46 <Mikho> inz, multithreaded it is
Jul 11 09:07:57 <inz> damn, I though I had you
Jul 11 09:08:03 <inz> but you've gone to the dark side :(
Jul 11 09:08:20 <Mikho> I'm not afraid of the threads, even though they might strangle me
Jul 11 09:09:18 <inz> I'm still claiming that you'd get at least the same power efficiency, if not better, with single threaded approach
Jul 11 09:09:37 <nomis> Yay for single threaded programming!
Jul 11 09:10:15 <inz> nomis, on uniprocessor systems
Jul 11 09:10:32 <Mikho> I'll remember your wise words if I fail
Jul 11 09:14:51 <nomis> Mikho: did you try exchanging the type name? I'm really curious now  :)
Jul 11 09:16:18 <Mikho> I'll try for you :)
Jul 11 09:34:20 <inz> At least glade doesn't understand it
Jul 11 09:34:24 <inz> No idea of libglade
Jul 11 09:50:41 <disq> heh. metalayer-crawler was taking a long time probably scanning my sardine partition, so i disabled it. felt good
Jul 11 09:56:55 <sbaturzio> is there a way to forward the X session thru ssh?
Jul 11 09:57:13 <pancake> man ssh?
Jul 11 09:57:18 <sbaturzio> I mean: I want to start an application on N800 but see the output on my PC
Jul 11 09:57:39 <sbaturzio> pancake: I tried to enable X11forwarding but it doesn't work
Jul 11 09:57:40 <pancake> on wikipedia there are examples of use
Jul 11 09:58:00 <sbaturzio> maybe because the only user I can use for an ssh connection is root and not "user"
Jul 11 09:58:38 <sbaturzio> forwarding X between my PC's works fine
Jul 11 10:04:21 <pancake> does the ssh works ?
Jul 11 10:05:37 <cosmo> sbaturzio: use options -XY when connecting
Jul 11 10:05:57 <cosmo> i've run app from PC to 770, not vice versa. i believe it should work
Jul 11 10:06:13 <nomis> also check the DISPLAY environment variable after ssh'ing onto the N800
Jul 11 10:06:56 <sbaturzio> cosmo: well...in /etc/ssh/sshd_config the X11Forwarding is 'yes', connecting with "ssh -XY ..." doesn't create the right DISPLAY variable
Jul 11 10:07:05 <sbaturzio> let me try to force it to a right value...
Jul 11 10:07:43 <nomis> sbaturzio: it should be something like localhost:12.0
Jul 11 10:07:56 <sbaturzio> 12? not 10?
Jul 11 10:08:09 <nomis> well, thats not that relevant.
Jul 11 10:09:02 <nomis> the point is, that it is not something like localhost:0.0 - the x11 protocol gets encapsulated into a ssh tunnel.
Jul 11 10:09:17 <sbaturzio> anyway...still "cannot open display" error
Jul 11 10:09:45 <sbaturzio> must I reboot the whole n800 after changing the sshd_config?
Jul 11 10:09:59 <nomis> hmm, maybe some xauth-related problem. Not that I'd know that much about that...
Jul 11 10:10:18 <nomis> sbaturzio: at least restart the ssh daemon.
Jul 11 10:10:35 <sbaturzio> the -Y should override the xauth problem, shouldn't it?
Jul 11 10:10:57 <nomis> oh, ok.
Jul 11 10:11:11 <cosmo> it allows clients to do some "unsecure" things
Jul 11 10:11:30 <sbaturzio> nomis: ssh restarted, no change
Jul 11 10:11:30 <cosmo> for example using menus in gnome apps crashes the app if -Y is not on
Jul 11 10:11:54 <cosmo> do you have openssh server, not the other one?
Jul 11 10:12:08 <sbaturzio> openssh
Jul 11 10:14:17 <sbaturzio> are we sure the openssh support X11forwarding?
Jul 11 10:14:25 <sbaturzio> how can we check this?
Jul 11 10:15:24 <cosmo> yes i am.
Jul 11 10:15:50 <cosmo> unless openssh maemo port is somehow crippled
Jul 11 10:15:53 <JussiP_> By default OpenSSH servers do not allow X forwarding.
Jul 11 10:16:13 <cosmo> JussiP_: yes, that's why must use -XY
Jul 11 10:16:17 <JussiP_> Check /etc/ssh/ssh_config
Jul 11 10:16:44 <JussiP_> cosmo: no, that is for client, the server can also refuse X even if the client requests it.
Jul 11 10:17:03 <JussiP_> I meant sshd_config of course.
Jul 11 10:17:39 <sbaturzio> JussiP_: sshd_config it's ok: "X11Forwarding yes"
Jul 11 10:18:10 <cosmo> JussiP_: at least on normal desktop linux the server allows it if client requests it
Jul 11 10:18:31 <JussiP_> Not so on Debian at least.
Jul 11 10:19:23 <inz> cosmo, doesn't -Y imply -X?
Jul 11 10:19:27 <sbaturzio> JussiP_: changes the ssh_config, just to be sure, but nothing change
Jul 11 10:20:22 <JussiP_> I mean check ssdh_config at the *other* end. ssh_config is overridden by command line parameters.
Jul 11 10:20:31 <cosmo> JussiP_: oh ok.. i'm only familiar with ubuntu & fedora
Jul 11 10:20:59 <cosmo> inz: maybe so.. at least -XY works for me
Jul 11 10:24:44 <sbaturzio> uhm....the message is "GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display:"   with nothing on the end...maybe is something related to GTK, not to X?
Jul 11 10:27:13 <cy-> sup
Jul 11 10:29:07 <cbx33> hey all
Jul 11 10:29:22 <cbx33> just got my nokia n800
Jul 11 10:29:30 <cy-> noice
Jul 11 10:29:38 <cbx33> question
Jul 11 10:29:49 <cy-> I'll brb
Jul 11 10:29:57 <sbaturzio> uhmm....some improvement
Jul 11 10:30:15 <cbx33> the application installer doesn't seem to support the proxy settings
Jul 11 10:30:25 <cbx33> is that known
Jul 11 10:30:31 <sbaturzio> starting xephyr on my pc and giving the DISPLAY=ipofmypc:2 on n800 change something
Jul 11 10:30:50 <Mikho> nomis, it seems the editor doesn't allow me to change GtkWindow into HildonWindow
Jul 11 10:31:34 <Mikho> so editing the xml file would be too much hassle as the changes would be overwritten every time I save
Jul 11 10:31:41 <inz> Mikho, I noticed that too, neither does it allow to load an .xml where you've changed that to something "weird"
Jul 11 10:31:55 <inz> Mikho, even if that "weird" has been registered to the GType system
Jul 11 10:32:27 <Mikho> so the only possibility is to manually reattach the widget under the first window
Jul 11 10:32:37 <inz> so it seems
Jul 11 10:32:40 <inz> (or ditch glade ;)
Jul 11 10:32:52 <Mikho> never! :)
Jul 11 10:33:31 <nomis> ok, thanks for trying.
Jul 11 10:33:51 <cbx33> also is there a nice tutorial for setting up a python dev environment for the n800?
Jul 11 10:34:11 <sbaturzio> OK, seems X11 forwarding works at least
Jul 11 10:34:26 <sbaturzio> but we need to start  xephyr  on PC before
Jul 11 10:35:19 <sbaturzio> now I got a problem related to sapwood server which is not running for that DISPLAY
Jul 11 10:35:25 <cbx33> I'm guessing I really need the terminal on my n800 before i can hack about much
Jul 11 10:35:50 <cy-> ugh
Jul 11 10:35:57 <cy-> still no SIP or IAX client for n800 :(
Jul 11 10:36:07 <cbx33> but I can't get it because app manager doesn't seem to honnur the proxy settingo
Jul 11 10:40:05 <cbx33> anyone know anything about it?
Jul 11 10:41:38 <nomis> Mikho: (I'd still be interested what happens if you manually change that)
Jul 11 11:30:04 <zuh> nomis: It would work, but only if someone (either your app or a libglade module) registers the widget type with libglade before loading it
Jul 11 11:31:33 <zuh> Like this: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/libglade-hildon/libglade-hildon.c
Jul 11 11:32:13 <zuh> But as I said, it could be done in your app too
Jul 11 11:34:10 <disq> the new unzip.desktop has "NoDisplay=true" but it's still shown in launch menu (bora)
Jul 11 11:34:37 <disq> i'm guessing the file is there for mime type purposes
Jul 11 11:53:24 <cosmo> is xchat maemo porter here?
Jul 11 12:02:17 <inz> which one?
Jul 11 12:02:31 <cosmo> any
Jul 11 12:02:44 <inz> I did one port
Jul 11 12:03:03 <inz> It is way worse than skyhusker's, but at least when it breaks, you get to keep both pieces
Jul 11 12:03:36 <cosmo> i'd like to fix a bug in it as a excercise
Jul 11 12:04:23 <cosmo> hm, i've got 2.6.4 in 770 installed.. it's a old version
Jul 11 12:05:01 <inz> then it's most likely mine, the source is at http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/pool/main/x/xchat/
Jul 11 12:07:22 <cosmo> inz: ok.. it's the one found on repositories
Jul 11 12:07:28 <inz> The source for skyhusker's port isn't publicly available
Jul 11 12:07:30 <eugene> hello
Jul 11 12:07:33 <cosmo> and i haven't found a way to add autojoin channels
Jul 11 12:10:16 <inz> cosmo, I only did mine because skyhusker hadn't "ported" his to mistral at the time
Jul 11 12:11:05 <inz> cosmo, you're probably way better of using his port: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/install/xchat.install
Jul 11 12:11:08 <cosmo> there is patch for 2.8.0 available http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/patches/maemo-xchat-bora1.diff
Jul 11 12:11:44 <inz> true, there is nowadays
Jul 11 12:12:11 <inz> dunno if it's the same as used for the 2.8.2
Jul 11 12:12:28 <inz> actually it is not, it has more patches
Jul 11 12:16:30 <Enok> How to get rid of broken zsh install on n800, both apt install and remove hang
Jul 11 12:17:50 <inz> Enok, remove /var/lib/dpkg/info/zsh.*rm
Jul 11 12:18:33 <Veggen> (side note: I'd love to have zsh on the n800)
Jul 11 12:20:06 <alterego> Well, just ordered an N800 :)
Jul 11 12:21:47 <alterego> So, I remember hearing about a Ruby Hildon binding. Is this true?
Jul 11 12:24:13 <Enok> Hmm didn't help
Jul 11 12:26:09 <Enok> Sorry it did help!
Jul 11 12:26:18 <Enok> Thanks
Jul 11 12:27:37 <inz> Enok, thanks for reminding me (goes off to remove the package from repo)
Jul 11 12:30:09 <cbx33> dude you guys rock!
Jul 11 12:30:33 <cbx33> I'm an Ubuntu with a little time to help out.  What can I do
Jul 11 12:30:44 <cbx33> I'm also a python coder
Jul 11 12:33:58 <cbx33> an Ubuntu dev and MOTU
Jul 11 12:34:14 <cbx33> sorry trying to learn dvorak
Jul 11 12:35:12 <Robot101> cd
Jul 11 12:35:21 <inz> Robot101, EWINDOW
Jul 11 12:35:30 <Robot101> yeah, focus was sluggish
Jul 11 12:35:41 <inz> *grumble* curses web site spammers *grumble*
Jul 11 12:36:22 <alterego> Hmmm.
Jul 11 12:36:37 <inz> Fortunately wordpress can handle spam quite well, can't say the same about trac...
Jul 11 12:36:38 <alterego> So, would I piss off google if I worked on a Ruby binding for Maemo?
Jul 11 12:37:21 <alterego> It's all very well this S. o. Code thing. But this means I have to wait until the end of the summer for something I could probably knock together myself pretty quickly.
Jul 11 12:38:19 <Jaffa> alterego: is it "permitted" to assist the existing project?
Jul 11 12:38:31 <alterego> I don't know.
Jul 11 12:38:45 <alterego> Also, as far as I know the project hasn't even started yet.
Jul 11 12:40:10 <alterego> It's actually been about 2 years since I did any hacking in maemo. So I'm a bit out of date and touch.
Jul 11 12:40:13 <suihkulokki> alterego: I don't think google cares, but your mentor might
Jul 11 12:40:23 <alterego> My mentor? I don't have a mentor.
Jul 11 12:40:49 <alterego> I'm not part of SoC. I'm talking about high jacking the project. :)
Jul 11 12:41:21 <suihkulokki> ah, theyll just be happy if you the work for them =)
Jul 11 12:41:34 <alterego> Right, well I might get started then ;)
Jul 11 12:42:36 <zuh> I doubt there is any real reason to hold back. Duplicated work is just stupid, not illegal ;)
Jul 11 12:43:14 <alterego> Right
Jul 11 12:43:14 <zuh> Well, actually I guess the competition would only do good in this kind of situations
Jul 11 12:47:17 <Jaffa> zuh: well, it's no good if apps get written to one set of Ruby/Hildon bindings and then that goes away in favour of a different set of bindings.
Jul 11 12:47:50 * cbx33 feels invisible..... is there some kind of right of passage, or initation ceremony?
Jul 11 12:48:05 <alterego> cbx33, eh?
Jul 11 12:48:09 <alterego> I SEE YOU!
Jul 11 12:48:49 <cbx33> WOOHOO
Jul 11 12:49:34 <cbx33> people seem so busy in here
Jul 11 12:49:44 <cbx33> :p
Jul 11 12:54:16 <cbx33> does anyone else have probloems using the application installer with a proxy?
Jul 11 12:58:54 <inz> cbx, don't have a proxied network available, so cannot check :(
Jul 11 12:59:03 <Jaffa> cbx33: No, it should work with the system proxy. apt-get in xterm respects http_proxy, of course.
Jul 11 12:59:21 <colinl> hey there
Jul 11 13:00:01 <colinl> would anyone here with an n800 have a few minutes to (in)validate packages and a .install file ? I'm trying to set up scratchbox and a repository for Claws Mail
Jul 11 13:00:16 <colinl> I'd like a quick test from someone who has the hardware
Jul 11 13:02:35 <inz> colinl, whats wrong with the official repo?
Jul 11 13:03:14 <colinl> inz: it's not done by me :) I should receive an n800 soonish, and will take over package maintainance
Jul 11 13:03:23 <inz> ahh
Jul 11 13:03:25 <colinl> so I'd like to see if my procedure is ok :)
Jul 11 13:03:33 <inz> sure, just pass a link
Jul 11 13:03:41 <colinl> http://colino.net/maemo/
Jul 11 13:04:01 <colinl> http://colino.net/maemo/claws-mail.install should be enough for it to work if I did no mistakes...
Jul 11 13:04:04 <inz> I'll remove the "old" one first
Jul 11 13:04:15 <colinl> inz: thanks :)
Jul 11 13:05:13 <inz> at least the file type for the .install file is wrong
Jul 11 13:05:17 <inz> it just opens it in browser
Jul 11 13:05:50 <cbx33> Jaffa, heheh if i could get xterm
Jul 11 13:06:29 <cbx33> does the app manager use apt?
Jul 11 13:06:40 <colinl> inz: hhm right, thanks :)
Jul 11 13:06:45 <colinl> fixing it...
Jul 11 13:06:53 <cbx33> using apt won't affect app manager right?
Jul 11 13:07:13 <inz> colinl, and your repo is broken too
Jul 11 13:07:52 <inz> colinl, you should either have a "binary-armel" dir under the "user" dir, where the Packages.gz lies
Jul 11 13:08:20 <inz> colinl, or you should make the repo line http://colino.net/maemo/dists/bora/user/ ./
Jul 11 13:09:42 <colinl> uhm right, thanks :)
Jul 11 13:09:47 <colinl> fixed. Care to try again?
Jul 11 13:11:13 <inz> colinl, now the packages file is wrong
Jul 11 13:11:28 <disq> colinl: of course one could the maemo garage repository
Jul 11 13:11:53 <inz> if you're using <url> <distribution> <section> -format, the urls in the packages must be relative to the <url>
Jul 11 13:11:57 <disq> recently ferenc fixed the docman filetypes so adding .install files as documents in garage projects now work in opera
Jul 11 13:12:15 <colinl> inz: ah, fixing that :)
Jul 11 13:12:32 <inz> colinl, i.e. in this case, the Packages.gz should say dists/bora/user/binary-armel/claws-mail..._armel.deb
Jul 11 13:13:22 <inz> colinl, I, personally, use reprepro to handle maemo-hackers.org apt repository
Jul 11 13:13:45 <inz> colinl, it takes care of most things for me, I just upload package to a dir and a cron job collects if and puts into place
Jul 11 13:13:55 <inz> s/if/it/
Jul 11 13:13:55 <infobot> inz meant: colinl, it takes care of most things for me, I just upload package to a dir and a cron job collects it and puts into place
Jul 11 13:14:04 <inz> grr
Jul 11 13:16:02 <colinl> :)
Jul 11 13:16:15 <inz> /brick infobot
Jul 11 13:17:28 <inz> if it supported 5blrt, that'd be cool
Jul 11 13:17:52 <colinl> inz: fixed the Packages.gz
Jul 11 13:18:27 <inz> colinl, downloading...
Jul 11 13:18:36 <inz> colinl, you need (way) more bandwidth than that ;)
Jul 11 13:18:42 <colinl> inz: yeah :)
Jul 11 13:18:56 <colinl> it won't stay there... but I don't want to break the official one with my tests
Jul 11 13:19:11 <inz> Foolish, I say, foolish
Jul 11 13:19:14 <inz> ...not!
Jul 11 13:19:22 <colinl> :)
Jul 11 13:19:59 <inz> starts up and sees my mail at least
Jul 11 13:20:15 <colinl> inz: great! many thanks for the test :)
Jul 11 13:23:20 <Jaffa> cbx33: App Mgr is just a user "friendly" front end to apt
Jul 11 13:26:40 <cbx33> ok thought so
Jul 11 13:26:45 <cbx33> thanks
Jul 11 13:26:49 <Jaffa> Yay, productive user-focused discussion on maemo-developers :-)
Jul 11 13:27:27 <cbx33> Jaffa have we met before?
Jul 11 13:28:10 <inz> Jaffa, yay, irony from a techie!
Jul 11 13:28:29 <cbx33> thats almost unheard of
Jul 11 13:28:31 <cbx33> heheheh
Jul 11 13:29:16 <alterego> Does Minimo use XULRunner?
Jul 11 13:30:10 <alterego> I'd love to see XUL/Maemo .. That'd be awesome.
Jul 11 13:30:19 <alterego> Maybe I'll work on that,.
Jul 11 13:30:50 <timeless> as of mar it definitely wasn't by default
Jul 11 13:31:38 <Jaffa> inz: ;-p
Jul 11 13:32:15 <Jaffa> alterego: XUL/Maemo would be very cool - simple XUL apps written in JS would rock.
Jul 11 13:32:44 <timeless> jaffa: unfortunately, cairo on n800 is slow
Jul 11 13:32:50 <timeless> so some people won't be happy w/ it
Jul 11 13:33:09 <alterego> XULRunner uses Cairo?
Jul 11 13:33:09 <Jaffa> I thought there were some good optimisations there?
Jul 11 13:33:23 <timeless> modern geckos do, yes
Jul 11 13:33:31 <timeless> jaffa: ?
Jul 11 13:33:44 <timeless> i certainly haven't heard of any embedders happy w/ cairo
Jul 11 13:33:47 * lardman curses 16-bit chars
Jul 11 13:34:03 <alterego> Yeah, it was all the FP
Jul 11 13:34:05 <timeless> i have heard someone complaining about cairo/embedded devices this morning
Jul 11 13:34:18 <timeless> lardman: would you rather 32-bit chars?
Jul 11 13:34:28 <suihkulokki> add cairo - instant lag
Jul 11 13:34:34 <alterego> I do seem to remember an effort of embedding Cairo though, quite a while ago mind.
Jul 11 13:34:47 <lardman> timeless: No, 8bit is fine by me :)
Jul 11 13:34:55 <timeless> lardman: personally i'd rather 7bit
Jul 11 13:35:04 <alterego> I thought that was why Nokia decided on Gtk1.6 or whatever, as it was pre Cairo.
Jul 11 13:35:07 <timeless> i think i could probably get by with 5 or 6 :)
Jul 11 13:35:22 <colinl> alterego: 1.6? :)
Jul 11 13:35:39 <alterego> 2.6 sorry ;)
Jul 11 13:36:12 * timeless sighs
Jul 11 13:36:21 <timeless> silly cairo developers claim cairo is not slow
Jul 11 13:36:26 <alterego> I don't like this maemo downloads section.
Jul 11 13:36:28 <timeless> all the users complain cairo is slow
Jul 11 13:36:38 <alterego> Half the projects are rubbish anyhow.
Jul 11 13:36:57 <Daniellion> I would be happy with updated flash engine on the 770
Jul 11 13:37:22 <timeless> </|dream>
Jul 11 13:41:11 <inz> timeless, pipe dream as in "nearly impossible to achieve" or as in "outcome would never reach initial expectations"?
Jul 11 13:44:38 <cbx33> Hey OgMaciel
Jul 11 13:44:53 <OgMaciel> hey cbx33!  good morning
Jul 11 13:44:58 <trevarthan> disq: BTW, the Last.FM support has been merged: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/changeset/130
Jul 11 13:45:01 <trevarthan> Sorry I couldn't let you know sooner. My ISP lost a router or something in the electrical storm last night. My town's internet just came back up a few hours ago. :)
Jul 11 13:46:26 <disq> :)
Jul 11 13:48:29 <timeless> simply "that won't happen"
Jul 11 13:48:43 <timeless> nokia eol'd 770 support, right?
Jul 11 13:48:59 <disq> maemoscrobbler.py looks clean :P
Jul 11 13:49:33 <cbx33> OgMaciel: your blog post made me get a nokia n800
Jul 11 13:50:15 <cbx33> heheheh
Jul 11 13:50:17 <disq> interesting, which post?
Jul 11 13:50:17 <dpb_> timeless: atleast the hacker edition lives
Jul 11 13:50:47 <timeless> dpb: well, let me know if the hacker edition can run flash9 :)
Jul 11 13:51:02 <dpb_> sure :)
Jul 11 13:51:04 <timeless> while you're at it, explain how someone who doesn't own an n800 can legal obtain flash9 for his 770
Jul 11 13:51:11 <cbx33> on planet ubuntu ;) - used the money i got for writing my chapter of the official ubuntu book
Jul 11 13:51:20 <OgMaciel> cbx33: hehehe...  if I only made comission ;)
Jul 11 13:51:28 <dpb_> no idea on that..
Jul 11 13:51:45 <timeless> dpb: thankfully i have a box containing an n800, so i don't have /that/ problem
Jul 11 13:51:59 <dpb_> I don't have a n800..
Jul 11 13:52:11 <cbx33> OgMaciel:  you done any python coding on yours yet?
Jul 11 13:52:16 <timeless> you have a 770 running hacker edition? :)
Jul 11 13:52:21 <dpb_> yup
Jul 11 13:52:52 * dpb_ is waiting for a new hacker edition version..
Jul 11 13:52:52 * timeless sighs
Jul 11 13:53:06 <OgMaciel> cbx33: I did actually... got my tasks app running in it
Jul 11 13:53:17 <colinl> OgMaciel: about http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=373 -- do you know whether developers will need to install a new target, or are packages made for Bora OK with this new release?
Jul 11 13:53:42 <OgMaciel> colinl: not too sure but I believe what you said is correct
Jul 11 13:54:06 <colinl> OgMaciel: you mean the second part of my sentence is correct? :)
Jul 11 13:54:19 <OgMaciel> colinl: ya  :)
Jul 11 13:54:25 <colinl> ok, thanks
Jul 11 13:54:29 <trevarthan> disq: dude, I love your maemoscrobbler package. That thing is *great*. Last.fm is really cool too.
Jul 11 13:54:56 <cbx33> OgMaciel: you got a dev environment on your pc?
Jul 11 13:55:09 <trevarthan> dbus is awesome too. :)
Jul 11 13:55:10 <OgMaciel> speaking of maemoscrobbler, which player can I use with it?
Jul 11 13:55:23 <OgMaciel> cbx33: what do you mean?
Jul 11 13:55:23 <inz> colinl, at least all my packages built with 3.0 bora work with the new release
Jul 11 13:55:41 <colinl> inz: ok
Jul 11 13:55:53 <colinl> inz: you mean the repo you just tested, it was with the new release?
Jul 11 13:55:59 <inz> colinl, yes
Jul 11 13:56:11 <colinl> ah, great, so i have my answer -- no extra work required
Jul 11 13:56:18 <colinl> I love that kind of news, thanks:)
Jul 11 13:56:31 <trevarthan> OgMaciel: you can use it with Kagu for one. No .deb yet, but you can download from SVN: `svn co https://www.guardiani.us/svn/kagu/trunk kagu`  Requirements are python 2.5 and mplayer. It's written in python, so there is nothing to compile.
Jul 11 13:56:32 <cbx33> OgMaciel: how did you test/develop your port
Jul 11 13:56:34 <inz> colinl, and personally I'd suggest against updating your rootstrap, to keep compatibility with older releases
Jul 11 13:56:55 <colinl> yes, that's what I wanted
Jul 11 13:57:02 <colinl> keep the oldest thing possible
Jul 11 13:57:03 <colinl> :)
Jul 11 13:57:21 <inz> colinl, I build my packages with the original mistral rootstrap and the original bora rootstrap
Jul 11 13:57:42 <inz> colinl, that way mistral, gregale and scirocco are supported, as are all bora revisions
Jul 11 13:57:50 <disq> trevarthan: i'll add view queue / view history dialogs to the cp applet someday. and of course mistral support, currently it won't load because there's no libconic
Jul 11 13:57:55 <OgMaciel> cbx33: I didn't do anything fancy really... copied the code over and to tell you the truth it just worked  ;)
Jul 11 13:58:07 <cbx33> WOW
Jul 11 13:58:16 <OgMaciel> trevarthan: niiiice... thanks
Jul 11 13:58:20 <disq> trevarthan: btw what would be great in kano is another view with history of the songs that were just played
Jul 11 13:58:22 <colinl> inz: that's what I plan to do :) I'm currently running my build script on the mistral rootstrap. In a few minutes I should be able to bother an n770 user with a test :)
Jul 11 13:58:27 <cbx33> installed python from the maemo site?
Jul 11 13:58:49 <OgMaciel> cbx33: I used the script that lets you install WordPy
Jul 11 13:58:51 <cbx33> how fast is python on it?
Jul 11 13:59:19 <OgMaciel> cbx33: I didn't see any speed improvements... but then again, I'm no expert on the matter
Jul 11 13:59:20 <cbx33> WoydPy?
Jul 11 13:59:38 <inz> colinl, I'd be happy to help ;)
Jul 11 13:59:38 <disq> OgMaciel: canola's next release will probably include support for maemoscrobbler, though not sure when that might be :)
Jul 11 13:59:55 <trevarthan> OgMaciel: once you've got it checked out, cd into the kagu dir, then run ./kagu-scanner.py to generate the id3 database. Finally, run ./kagu.py to run the app.
Jul 11 14:00:36 <k-s[WORK]> disq: next canola will not happen so soon, however we plan to release it with python bindings and you will be able to add audio scroobbler support even if we don't do
Jul 11 14:00:52 <trevarthan> disq: I agree. I need volume and song seek views too. And I need to roll a deb. :( so little time.
Jul 11 14:01:17 <OgMaciel> cbx33: so you can write blog posts
Jul 11 14:01:31 <disq> k-s[WORK]: cool, bindings would be much better
Jul 11 14:01:31 <OgMaciel> disq: hummm... I already have it installed and it is pretty cool
Jul 11 14:01:47 <OgMaciel> trevarthan: awsome... does it use sqlite?
Jul 11 14:01:58 <trevarthan> yes
Jul 11 14:01:59 * cbx33 is VERY excited
Jul 11 14:02:03 <disq> OgMaciel: MyDocs/.sounds/kagu.db :)
Jul 11 14:02:11 <k-s[WORK]> disq: actually, we hope for canola to be all in python
Jul 11 14:02:22 * k-s[WORK] is tried of gobject and friends
Jul 11 14:02:23 <trevarthan> or /media/mmc1/kagu.db, depending.
Jul 11 14:02:50 <OgMaciel> k-s[WORK]: niiiice
Jul 11 14:02:53 <disq> k-s[WORK]: i want canola to be open sourced, that's all i really want :P
Jul 11 14:03:17 <OgMaciel> trevarthan: have you tested it against sqlite 3.4 by any chance?
Jul 11 14:03:24 <k-s[WORK]> disq: me too, believe me
Jul 11 14:03:37 <trevarthan> OgMaciel: it works with the sqlite3 that comes with python 2.5.
Jul 11 14:03:38 <k-s[WORK]> I like to build infrastructure, not implementing minor wishlists
Jul 11 14:03:48 <k-s[WORK]> I really really want you to make those :-)
Jul 11 14:03:49 <disq> yep
Jul 11 14:04:04 * OgMaciel will take kagu for a spin this afternoon
Jul 11 14:04:12 <k-s[WORK]> (and myself as an oss contributor, do my own wishes without following company roadmaps)
Jul 11 14:05:03 <colinl> *: does someone here with a 770 (OS 2006) have a few minutes to test a repository ?
Jul 11 14:05:09 <inz> sure
Jul 11 14:05:14 * trevarthan is looking for help developing Kagu, so if anyone is tired of waiting for Canola to be open source and wants to make something better than Canola, please join me.
Jul 11 14:05:34 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: why not help ukmp?
Jul 11 14:05:42 <colinl> inz: ah you have a 770 too?
Jul 11 14:05:54 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: have you seen ukmp's code? It's a rat's nest.
Jul 11 14:06:01 <colinl> inz: so, here it is: http://www.colino.net/maemo/
Jul 11 14:06:05 <eugene> what's the state of kagu
Jul 11 14:06:11 <k-s[WORK]> also, next canola will have its ui based on evas and other libs we call "efl", it's totally open source and public, you can base your work on that
Jul 11 14:06:13 <disq> trevarthan: i'm weak in python and ui areas (it not being gtk and all) but i'm making myself familar with the code
Jul 11 14:06:14 <trevarthan> And besides, konttori doesn't seem too receptive to patches.
Jul 11 14:06:37 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: so, maybe you can try EFL?
Jul 11 14:06:41 <inz> colinl, yay, the .install file is with correct mime type now ;)
Jul 11 14:06:44 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: have you seen my demo?
Jul 11 14:06:48 <colinl> inz: yes :)
Jul 11 14:07:01 <disq> konttori is receptive to patches in my experience, i think he's just a little preoccupied
Jul 11 14:07:02 <k-s[WORK]> I'm writing a new demo, a virtual keyboard that is usable at least
Jul 11 14:07:02 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: or maybe I can continue working on kagu. I'm already committed to it at this point.
Jul 11 14:07:45 <disq> also, imho ukmp is not the best infrastructure to develop on, the code is not simple and nice
Jul 11 14:07:50 * k-s[WORK] would like to see pretty and fast apps for maemo... and EFL can help a lot here
Jul 11 14:08:53 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: alright, I'll bite. What is EFL and where can I see this demo?
Jul 11 14:09:40 <inz> colinl, just a sec, my 770 seems to be somewhat messed up
Jul 11 14:09:48 <colinl> sure
Jul 11 14:09:53 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: EFL stands for "Enlightenment Foundation Libraries", Enlightenment is a window manager built with performance and cute graphics in mind
Jul 11 14:10:08 <eugene> k-s[WORK]: any support for chinese fonts in canola?
Jul 11 14:10:09 <trevarthan> disq: I actually want to make a GTK ui for ukmp-scanner.py. I need a progress bar and an iterface for changing which paths to scan. You could help with that if you're good with gtk....
Jul 11 14:10:18 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: Evas is the canvas, really easy and powerful, I have 16bpp engine for n800, optimized
Jul 11 14:10:42 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: just install a font with utf-8 support and it might work, we have already some reports that it works
Jul 11 14:10:45 <disq> trevarthan: i'm good with gtk in C, but i'll dig up some pygtk examples and try
Jul 11 14:10:53 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: can you code for Evas and EFL in python?
Jul 11 14:11:00 <eugene> k-s[WORK]: any idea where i can download a chinese font?
Jul 11 14:11:02 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: sure, I wrote the bindings :-)
Jul 11 14:11:14 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: no idea, red hat or debian may provide some
Jul 11 14:11:28 <eugene> oh. so it's not from maemo
Jul 11 14:11:32 <trevarthan> disq: check out pymp. Has some nice clean gtk examples we could steal. I'm not looking for complex. Just functional.
Jul 11 14:11:37 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: you can get them from their CVS or my binary packages for n800
Jul 11 14:11:50 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: ttf are not architecture dependant
Jul 11 14:12:08 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: also, neither 770 or n800 has official chinese support, thus no fonts
Jul 11 14:12:11 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: easier or harder to use than pygame?
Jul 11 14:12:16 <disq> trevarthan: just a scanning: /path/to/file label and a progress bar?
Jul 11 14:12:19 <eugene> k-s[WORK]: ok
Jul 11 14:12:38 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan:   http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2007/06/23/edje-demo-on-n800-application-launcher-mockup/
Jul 11 14:13:02 <trevarthan> disq: just a progress bar would be fine for now. Later we can add the ability to modify which paths get scanned and store that using the prefs.py module.
Jul 11 14:13:07 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: it's much easier than pygame, and if you search my blog you'll find that I'm a big pygame fan, with tutorials and so
Jul 11 14:13:40 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: well, you got my attention. I'll check it out.
Jul 11 14:14:25 <trevarthan> If I do decide to use Evas + EFL then I'll make at least one release for pygame first. I've invested too much time in it to just throw it all away without a release...
Jul 11 14:14:41 <inz> colinl, now I got it, my app-mgr was in red-pill, that's why it was so damn slow...
Jul 11 14:14:59 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: I promise to provide an iphone-like virtual keyboard by the end of this week
Jul 11 14:15:08 <colinl> red-pill is the "do what I want even if it isn't a good idea" mode?
Jul 11 14:15:19 <inz> colinl, yes
Jul 11 14:15:22 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: take some time to learn Edje, it will save you a lot of development effort
Jul 11 14:15:22 <colinl> :)
Jul 11 14:15:28 <trevarthan> I need to get my hands on an iphone. I've only seen the adverts on tv.
Jul 11 14:15:31 <colinl> inz: so, the mistral repo is working too?
Jul 11 14:15:41 <inz> colinl, installing...
Jul 11 14:15:45 <colinl> ok :)
Jul 11 14:15:57 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: you can ask guys at #e or #edevelop, or ask kenne, andrunko or myself, we're working with it about 1 month
Jul 11 14:16:17 <inz> colinl, the repo is at least ok, the package seems to be too
Jul 11 14:16:40 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: cool. Is it portable like pygame?
Jul 11 14:16:47 <cbx33> ok......
Jul 11 14:16:56 <disq> i'm watching a few evas/edje videos on youtube right now
Jul 11 14:16:58 <colinl> inz: many thanks for your time ! now I think I'll just have to wait until the thing shows up in the mail :)
Jul 11 14:17:01 <cbx33> ahhh I'll ask later
Jul 11 14:17:08 <kenne> trevarthan,  im not sure it runs on macos x yet
Jul 11 14:17:10 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: yes, it is
Jul 11 14:17:28 <k-s[WORK]> kenne: macosx has X, so it can run it
Jul 11 14:17:43 <kenne> but has it been tested?
Jul 11 14:17:50 <k-s[WORK]> kenne: yes
Jul 11 14:17:52 <kenne> ok
Jul 11 14:18:03 <k-s[WORK]> kenne: and there is one guy, caro, doing the native win32
Jul 11 14:18:05 <kenne> miguel told me that he couldnt get it working on his mac
Jul 11 14:18:15 <k-s[WORK]> kenne: because miguel is a designer?
Jul 11 14:18:37 <kenne> well... compiling isnt that hard :) and there are lots of hackers around
Jul 11 14:18:48 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: evas is much more well designed and complete than pygame.sprite.Group (and sub-classes)
Jul 11 14:19:57 <disq> evas looks nice. now what we need is an app with parallax scrolling :P
Jul 11 14:20:01 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: we have a really fast overlapping rectangle elimination, fast operations for scale, fade transparent images (which neither SDL or pygame do) and even colorize (make/tint one image green, for example)
Jul 11 14:20:12 <k-s[WORK]> parallax?
Jul 11 14:20:20 <inz> colinl, and verifying the package works too, downloading mails now
Jul 11 14:20:50 <colinl> inz: ok, perfect!
Jul 11 14:20:52 <disq> yeah. since evas is probably fast enough to handle it :P
Jul 11 14:20:57 <trevarthan> so it supports translucency?
Jul 11 14:21:09 <colinl> now I'm starting to wait for the postman ...
Jul 11 14:21:12 <trevarthan> without hardware support?
Jul 11 14:21:18 <k-s[WORK]> disq: wtf is parallax?
Jul 11 14:21:25 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: yes, it does
Jul 11 14:21:29 <alterego> That's weird, what have nvidia got to do with the N800?
Jul 11 14:21:38 <trevarthan> nice. I've been missing that with pygame.
Jul 11 14:21:40 <k-s[WORK]> add my repository and install python-efl-core-demo
Jul 11 14:21:42 <disq> k-s[WORK]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_scrolling
Jul 11 14:22:18 <k-s[WORK]> disq: ah, e17 have a background just like this
Jul 11 14:22:34 <k-s[WORK]> disq: you can just have the layers and make them move on their own speed
Jul 11 14:22:45 <k-s[WORK]> disq: not sure n800 would handle that :-/
Jul 11 14:22:53 <disq> yeah. and put in widgets in the layers. :P
Jul 11 14:23:13 <k-s[WORK]> ah, also good is to check for etk and etk_test, check for the embedded test
Jul 11 14:23:25 <k-s[WORK]> you can embedded ETK into your app, doing forms when required
Jul 11 14:23:42 <k-s[WORK]> ETK is GTK-like, with objects, signal... it's almost the same API to make transition easy
Jul 11 14:24:00 <eugene> if anyone knows of a repo that i can use to install gcc, g++, make, etc on n800, do let me know
Jul 11 14:24:19 * zuh pictures the battery life with a background which is parallax scrolling... nope, sorry. Unimaginably short.
Jul 11 14:24:22 <zuh> ;)
Jul 11 14:24:33 <Fatal> eugene: pardon me, but oh GOD why? :)
Jul 11 14:24:39 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: it would exaust your flash, and I don't know any packages that install packages on MMC
Jul 11 14:24:43 <disq> eugene: google for debian-armel, but it was a .tgz and not a repo. you can extract it in a seperate ext2 partition (on mmc, for instance) and move/symlink the binaries
Jul 11 14:25:11 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: maybe you want to run it inside qemu?
Jul 11 14:25:12 <eugene> k-s[WORK]: that would be tricky.
Jul 11 14:25:28 <eugene> i suspect that scratchbox could be buggy for something i want to do
Jul 11 14:25:33 <disq> k-s[WORK]: if it's not gtk, wouldn't it be problematic to use with the vkb and hildon/maemo modifications?
Jul 11 14:25:41 <eugene> so i'm looking at compiling it natively on the device itself.
Jul 11 14:26:02 <disq> k-s[WORK]: but widgets i meant really simple widgets like a playlist or album list or something like that
Jul 11 14:26:09 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: not qemu like in scratchbox, but boot into Qemu-arm and use the entire system there
Jul 11 14:26:12 <suihkulokki> the debian armel port is way ahead of maemo, ie it has gcc-4.1 and glibc 2.5
Jul 11 14:26:23 <suihkulokki> so the binaries will not run on vanilla n800
Jul 11 14:26:28 <k-s[WORK]> vivijim: explain to eugene what you're working on
Jul 11 14:26:37 <eugene> hmm
Jul 11 14:26:57 <eugene> suihkulokki: is there a way to use debian armel and still make sure the binaries work on vanilla n800?
Jul 11 14:27:07 <suihkulokki> compile static binaries?
Jul 11 14:27:24 <disq> chroot into debian-armel and take the static road, yes
Jul 11 14:27:38 <eugene> the end product is actually a kernel module
Jul 11 14:27:51 <eugene> so i guess that isn't much of an issue
Jul 11 14:28:03 <suihkulokki> that will be an issue
Jul 11 14:28:14 <eugene> but, is it possible to make a debian armel qemu guest compile a lkm that i can insmod on n800?
Jul 11 14:28:16 <suihkulokki> you really need to compile the modules with same gcc
Jul 11 14:28:18 <disq> you should be fine with scratchbox (if you have non-qemu emulated instructions/flags, use cpu transparency and compile on the OMAP)
Jul 11 14:28:20 <eugene> or boot to a n800 kernel?
Jul 11 14:28:21 <suihkulokki> -as the kernel
Jul 11 14:28:27 <eugene> well..
Jul 11 14:28:45 <eugene> suihkulokki: n800 doesn't have gcc in the first place. so i guess you are referring to compiling the modules with the same kernel version?
Jul 11 14:29:14 <eugene> disq: i'm not fine with scratchbox, which is why i am coming up with alternative plans. can't really determine if the bug is with the software or with scratchbox environment.
Jul 11 14:29:21 <eugene> something really weird is happening.
Jul 11 14:29:40 <suihkulokki> eugene: if your end product is a kernel module, you need to use the same gcc version as the kernel was built with
Jul 11 14:29:45 <disq> there's scratchbox2 too, maybe you should ask in maemo-devel
Jul 11 14:29:46 <eugene> suihkulokki: right.
Jul 11 14:29:57 <marciom> eugene, we started a project that puts maemo inside a chroot environment using qemu. I think that's what you want to do
Jul 11 14:30:02 <eugene> suihkulokki: that would be tricky.
Jul 11 14:30:05 <eugene> marciom: tell me more.
Jul 11 14:30:25 <eugene> marciom: think that's more like setting up a native environment in a virtualized os
Jul 11 14:30:33 <eugene> s/virtualized/emularted/
Jul 11 14:30:35 <infobot> eugene meant: marciom: think that's more like setting up a native environment in a emularted os
Jul 11 14:30:42 <eugene> s/emularted/emulated/
Jul 11 14:30:42 <eugene> :)
Jul 11 14:30:50 <suihkulokki> eugene: so cpu transparency (sbrsh) is probably to your rescue, if the issue is due to qemu
Jul 11 14:31:11 <marciom> eugene, http://osmtc.indt.org/projects/mamona
Jul 11 14:31:17 <disq> eugene: okay, transfer the filesystem to mmc, install -dev debs, and cross compile gcc on scratchbox? mm, that would take a while
Jul 11 14:31:17 <eugene> suihkulokki: i don't really get what you mean
Jul 11 14:31:23 <eugene> marciom: checking it out
Jul 11 14:31:55 <suihkulokki> eugene: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_cpu_trans_bora.html
Jul 11 14:32:00 <eugene> disq: actually, i got the toolchain on scratchbox but i'm observing strange behaviours that i am not sure if it is the problem with the software or scratchbox. looking at other ways to determine who's fault and solve what i am working on
Jul 11 14:32:12 <eugene> suihkulokki: checking it out
Jul 11 14:32:54 <eugene> suihkulokki: intersting article, thanks
Jul 11 14:33:24 <k-s[WORK]> eugene: marciom and vivijim are working on maemo working fully inside qemu, with ARM kernel and stuff, that will save you a lot of problems
Jul 11 14:33:28 <suihkulokki> eugene: you can skip the usb networking part of the doc if you can commmunicate from your pc to your n800 via wlan
Jul 11 14:33:33 <k-s[WORK]> it's a bit slower, but worth avoiding the pain
Jul 11 14:33:39 <eugene> k-s[WORK]: that sounds awesome. i will try it out
Jul 11 14:33:43 <disq> eugene: the gcc on the scratchbox is for intel so you can't directly move it over to the device. my idea was to compile a newer gcc that would run on armel and the same version as the one in the sb, install the rest of the headers and libraries from the devenv
Jul 11 14:33:45 <eugene> suihkulokki: nod
Jul 11 14:33:53 <eugene> disq: gcc is for armel.
Jul 11 14:34:15 <disq> then i don't see why you are looking for debian-armel packages
Jul 11 14:34:16 <eugene> disq: i have successfully compiled lkms for armel in scratchbox and transferred to n800.
Jul 11 14:34:25 <eugene> disq: for some reasons :)
Jul 11 14:34:32 <disq> okay :P
Jul 11 14:34:54 <eugene> marciom: thanks for the link. this is definitely something i am going to try it out!
Jul 11 14:35:37 <marciom> eugene, nice.
Jul 11 14:36:16 <marciom> this is only the beginning. We plan to have system emulation too
Jul 11 14:36:21 <eugene> marciom: so maemo on qemu has toolchain tools too?
Jul 11 14:36:35 <marciom> yes
Jul 11 14:36:48 <eugene> marciom: and compiling stuff on it, should work on n800 too?
Jul 11 14:37:03 <marciom> yes
Jul 11 14:37:06 <eugene> marciom: that includes running the same zImage as the one i compiled for n800?
Jul 11 14:37:23 <marciom> nomis, not yet
Jul 11 14:37:27 <marciom> ops
Jul 11 14:37:31 <eugene> nomis?
Jul 11 14:37:32 <marciom> eugene, not yet
Jul 11 14:37:36 <eugene> hmm.
Jul 11 14:37:46 <eugene> what do you mean :)
Jul 11 14:37:55 <marciom> at the moment only applications run under qemu
Jul 11 14:38:03 <eugene> oh.
Jul 11 14:38:07 <marciom> you can not emulate the kernel
Jul 11 14:38:12 <vivijim> eugene: we don't have a kernel emulation yet... just an user mode emulation
Jul 11 14:38:18 <eugene> ok....
Jul 11 14:38:46 <marciom> you can do gcc hello.c inside mamona and it will generate an armel binary
Jul 11 14:39:02 <eugene> i see.
Jul 11 14:39:14 <eugene> what kernel version is it using
Jul 11 14:39:20 <vivijim> eugene: and the packages inside mamona aren't from maemo... we are building all mamona packages using OpenEmbedded...
Jul 11 14:39:30 <eugene> oh......
Jul 11 14:39:45 <vivijim> eugene: actually no one... it is under user mode emulation yet.
Jul 11 14:39:55 <eugene> so i guess it might not be useful for me..
Jul 11 14:40:08 <trevarthan> If anyone wants a list of Kagu's features, check here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki/WikiStart
Jul 11 14:40:24 <trevarthan> I'll flesh that page out over time with some screenshots and such.
Jul 11 14:41:16 <vivijim> eugene: we intend to work on a full emulated system, but there is a lot of work before...
Jul 11 14:42:16 <eugene> nod.
Jul 11 14:42:32 <eugene> maybe i just give it a try first, and see how it goes. keeping my fingers cross.
Jul 11 14:42:58 <suihkulokki> long term, qemu system emulation is the way to go for application testing.
Jul 11 14:43:06 <etrunko> anyone knows if maemo gtk somehow prevents emission of 'row-activated' GtkTreeView signal?
Jul 11 14:43:12 <suihkulokki> running maemo env in a chroot with qemu-user is just too fragile
Jul 11 14:43:44 <eugene> suihkulokki: nod.
Jul 11 14:44:19 <eugene> interesting
Jul 11 14:45:03 <Jaffa> trevarthan: any pages/screenshots/plans online for kagu?
Jul 11 14:45:03 <marciom> suihkulokki, what do you mean by fragile?
Jul 11 14:47:18 <k-s[WORK]> marciom: it's easy to screw
Jul 11 14:47:19 <k-s[WORK]> :-P
Jul 11 14:47:53 <etrunko> gtk/gtktreeview.c  	(!)  	M58  	Double click handling code (in button_press) commented out, should be uncommented
Jul 11 14:47:57 <k-s[WORK]> marciom: just try to compile some modules that check for things qemu-user doesn't cover and bong, you're fucker
Jul 11 14:49:59 <trevarthan> Jaffa: you know, I don't have any screenshots yet. But I really need some. How do I do that in maemo?
Jul 11 14:50:41 <Jaffa> trevarthan: SSH in and use osso-screenshot-tool, or there's a status bar applet which allows you to do it on a timer, IIRC
Jul 11 14:51:45 <timeless> does anyone here know how to fix Xephyr keymap?
Jul 11 14:51:48 <suihkulokki> marciom: well, 1) qemu-user's syscall emulation is incomplete and plays allways catch-up to real kernel 2) you don't have a "booted up" system, you have to start services by hand with different priviledges than usual
Jul 11 14:51:52 <timeless> all of my keys are one letter off
Jul 11 14:52:05 <timeless> if i type: snpiy i get about
Jul 11 14:52:29 <melmoth> etrunko, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1531
Jul 11 14:52:35 <eugene> melmoth: hi buddy
Jul 11 14:53:08 <melmoth> hi there eugene !
Jul 11 14:53:16 <melmoth> and hello world.
Jul 11 14:53:47 <etrunko> melmoth: thanks
Jul 11 14:54:41 <trevarthan> kagu?
Jul 11 14:54:42 <_Monkey> somebody said kagu was a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here: http://www.guardiani.us/kagu-dist-20070709.tar.gz
Jul 11 14:54:50 <trevarthan> forget kagu
Jul 11 14:54:51 <_Monkey> trevarthan: I forgot kagu
Jul 11 14:55:33 <disq> trevarthan: the latest build doesn't have .encode('ascii', 'ignore') in kaguscanner? (imageSearch)
Jul 11 14:55:36 <trevarthan> Kagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu
Jul 11 14:55:40 <trevarthan> kagu?
Jul 11 14:55:40 <_Monkey> kagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu
Jul 11 14:56:38 <trevarthan> disq: no, sorry. I haven't merged it yet.
Jul 11 14:56:41 <Jaffa> trevarthan: FEATURES seems to suggest a desire for some iPhone-like eye candy?
Jul 11 14:56:44 <Jaffa> s/eye/UI/
Jul 11 14:56:45 <infobot> Jaffa meant: trevarthan: FEATURES seems to suggest a desire for some iPhone-like UI candy?
Jul 11 14:56:55 <trevarthan> Jaffa: indeed
Jul 11 14:57:33 <trevarthan> disq: I'll try to play with the mp3 you sent me tonight. sorry it's taken so long.
Jul 11 14:57:45 <eugene> good night
Jul 11 14:58:38 <trevarthan> a2dp?
Jul 11 14:58:39 <_Monkey> i think a2dp is working here http://www.guardiani.us/index.php/N800_custom_packages#Bluetooth_ALSA and is good. :) If you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask me about kagu.
Jul 11 14:59:43 <Jaffa> How long do the batteries last in BT headphones?
Jul 11 15:01:07 <trevarthan> my motorola s9's batteries last about a day, continuous use.
Jul 11 15:01:25 <disq> trevarthan: it's just the scanning that's problematic. and making urllib.urlencode and image.load like utf8 filenames is the best approach, but i don't have any clue on how
Jul 11 15:02:18 <disq> trevarthan: have you noticed stuttering with mplayer when kagu is at the background? happened to me this morning
Jul 11 15:02:27 <trevarthan> Jaffa: listening to them now, actually, using Kagu. And thanks to disq's maemoscrobbler support, you can see what I'm listening to here: http://www.last.fm/user/trevarthan/
Jul 11 15:04:29 <trevarthan> disq: mplayer might stutter a bit when kagu "spins up" it's draw() loop after key presses and such. Usually that happens after my n800 has been idle for quite a while though. I think it swaps out to disk or something. Haven't noticed sustained stuttering, no. Check memory consumption using `top` and CPU usage and also check to see if mplayer zombies are hanging around.
Jul 11 15:05:07 <disq> zombies. mmm.
Jul 11 15:05:30 <trevarthan> yeah, I think I got em all recently, but if you're still using that version from a few days ago you might still get them.
Jul 11 15:05:41 <trevarthan> process management is difficult, unfortunately.
Jul 11 15:05:49 <disq> no it was last night's snapshot. yeah it is
Jul 11 15:06:03 <trevarthan> do you have zombies?
Jul 11 15:06:07 <disq> i'll opt for gstreamer when it's ready
Jul 11 15:06:20 <disq> no, i didn't have them
Jul 11 15:06:35 <trevarthan> yeah. I'm going to make gst the default when a2dp is not turned on.
Jul 11 15:07:08 <trevarthan> gst will remove a dep and reduce song start latency, so I'm all for it.
Jul 11 15:07:10 <disq> anyway, i'll take a peek at pymp now
Jul 11 15:07:40 <trevarthan> keep in mind that you've probably already seen a lot of pymp as I stole it's mplayer process management and playlist for use in kagu.
Jul 11 15:07:52 <disq> :)
Jul 11 15:08:11 <trevarthan> I think control.py and pymp.py will be the most interesting for you.
Jul 11 15:08:25 <trevarthan> well, I gotta get some paid work done. Talk to you folks later.
Jul 11 15:09:27 <disq> okay cya
Jul 11 15:21:21 <alterego> Anyone use mplayer on the N800?
Jul 11 15:22:35 <chunow> hi
Jul 11 15:23:15 <trevarthan> alterego: I do. :)
Jul 11 15:23:32 <alterego> Does it work well? What sort of performance are you getting?
Jul 11 15:25:44 <chunow> I've decide to get a tablet
Jul 11 15:25:49 <chunow> *decided
Jul 11 15:26:02 <chunow> and I've reading for a week
Jul 11 15:26:48 <Jaffa> chunow: cool
Jul 11 15:27:02 <chunow> all information about nokia n770/n800 I could find
Jul 11 15:28:48 <chunow> but I haven't been able to decide if buying a N800 or n770
Jul 11 15:29:00 <chunow> I mean
Jul 11 15:29:39 <chunow> As i've never have one of them
Jul 11 15:29:44 <chunow> *had
Jul 11 15:30:03 <chunow> sorry for my English, is not my native language :(
Jul 11 15:31:01 <`0660> alterego, for me it works like a dream
Jul 11 15:31:05 <alterego> chunow, I bought an N800 today. Should arrive in the next couple of days.
Jul 11 15:31:13 <chunow> I've never had one of them, so I'd wonder
Jul 11 15:31:30 <chunow> alterego: great!!
Jul 11 15:31:31 <alterego> I figured the price difference was small and the N800 is superior and most likely more active development now.
Jul 11 15:31:50 <alterego> The 2x memory slots are a great bonus :)
Jul 11 15:32:21 <alterego> It's Bluetooth 2.0 as well the 770 is 1.2 I believe.
Jul 11 15:33:01 <alterego> Appearantly the extra clock cycles make all the difference as well. Not sure about the PowerVR core. Isn't that 3DFX?
Jul 11 15:33:26 <chunow> I haven't read so much :)
Jul 11 15:34:27 <chunow> my question is because I can get a second hand n700 about at half price than n800
Jul 11 15:34:30 <dragorn> the powervr core isn't accessible
Jul 11 15:34:43 <chunow> new n800, I mean
Jul 11 15:35:43 <chunow> and I wonder if improvements really cost that difference
Jul 11 15:37:57 <gla55> what would you do with another n770
Jul 11 15:38:14 <gla55> spread them over the house i suppose
Jul 11 15:38:16 <gla55> but apart from that
Jul 11 15:39:08 <trevarthan> Jeffa: Got some screenshots up for ya: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki
Jul 11 15:39:24 <chunow> I mainly want it for email, rss, multimedia (audio streaming if possible from a home server)
Jul 11 15:40:12 <trevarthan> s/Jeffa/Jaffa/
Jul 11 15:40:12 <infobot> trevarthan meant: Jaffa: Got some screenshots up for ya: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki
Jul 11 15:40:30 <chunow> gps, web and some office editing
Jul 11 15:40:41 <chunow> openoffice docs
Jul 11 15:40:54 <chunow> or compatible
Jul 11 15:43:36 <Mikho> How can I include my .glade file in the debian package? I suppose the program needs the file since it reads it runtime
Jul 11 15:44:49 * disq satisfies all debian packaging needs by cheating off of other packages
Jul 11 15:45:48 <alterego> I'd like to see Elite on the N800 :)
Jul 11 15:45:56 <alterego> I've not played that in _ages_
Jul 11 15:46:01 <Mikho> and where should those kind of files go in the unix file system anyway?
Jul 11 15:46:24 <alterego> Mikho, /usr/share/APPNAME
Jul 11 15:47:51 <trevarthan> alterego: yeah, mplayer works well. why?
Jul 11 15:48:02 <Mikho> so what should I do to makefile.am to make dpkg install the .glade in /usr/share/myapp
Jul 11 15:48:08 <alterego> trevarthan, because I'll install it if it's good :P
Jul 11 15:49:55 <trevarthan> :) yeah, it's good. I usually use the built in media player if I can, but mplayer is better for streaming and odd video formats.
Jul 11 15:50:21 <trevarthan> I feel like a broken record here, but I also use it in kagu for audio playback and A2DP.
Jul 11 15:51:15 <trevarthan> kagu doesn't do video though. just audio
Jul 11 16:00:46 <trevarthan> disq: is there a way to rate songs through maemoscrobbler? If so, I'll add that to the kagu TTD list.
Jul 11 16:04:16 <disq> trevarthan: no but let me see if there's such thing in the last.fm protocol
Jul 11 16:05:04 <Jaffa> trevarthan: looks very nice
Jul 11 16:06:20 <trevarthan> Jaffa: it's very early development phase right now. I've been working on it for a few weeks constantly, so it's fairly stable and usable, but far from complete.
Jul 11 16:06:37 <disq> trevarthan: there's a Love/Ban setting possible, i don't think it's worth the development
Jul 11 16:06:53 <Mikho> how do I define where my application looks for data files during runtime?
Jul 11 16:06:56 <trevarthan> in particular, it has the beginnings of a nice theme system in place, driven by sqlite and an image file, so it can get a lot nicer looking.
Jul 11 16:07:17 <trevarthan> disq: ok. thanks for looking.
Jul 11 16:17:47 <Mikho> Can anybody help? I found out how to install data files into /usr/share/appname along with package install, but how do I make my app find the data file? The app should be able to find it also when running it in emulator, in which case the data file resides simply in a separate data folder in my project folder
Jul 11 16:21:33 <alterego> What's the version of Maemo used in the N800 OS2007? 3.0 right?
Jul 11 16:21:34 <melmoth> create a symlink manually
Jul 11 16:25:46 <Jaffa> alterego: 3.2 with the latest firmware.
Jul 11 16:26:06 <alterego> Cool.
Jul 11 16:27:10 <pbrook> I just installed the latest update, and wireless seems to have broken even more than it was before.
Jul 11 16:27:57 <pbrook> The wifi seems to stop responding shortly after sending a packet. With previous releases it stopped responding after 1s, with the new release it stops responding after 200ms.
Jul 11 16:28:13 <pbrook> Is this a known problem, and any suggestions for fixing it?
Jul 11 16:28:35 <pbrook> ... this is on an n800.
Jul 11 16:29:35 <suihkulokki> pbrook: what?
Jul 11 16:30:00 <pbrook> Ok, I've installed ssh on my n800.
Jul 11 16:30:21 <pbrook> And have it connected to my wireless network.
Jul 11 16:30:51 <pbrook> When trying to connect from annother machine to the n800, the n800 doesn't respond at all (either to TCP connections ot ICMP pings).
Jul 11 16:30:58 * suihkulokki reads the irclog
Jul 11 16:31:39 <pbrook> Except for a very small window (~200ms with the .28 release) after the n800 initiates network activity.
Jul 11 16:32:22 <suihkulokki> pbrook: 1) what access point? latest firmare on the accesspoint?
Jul 11 16:32:22 <pbrook> So, if I do ping -i 0.2, this is sufficient to keep the network connection active". Otherwise the n800 seems to stop talking to the outside world.
Jul 11 16:32:38 <pbrook> I'm using the madwifi drivers in AP mode.
Jul 11 16:32:51 <suihkulokki> pbrook: you can try "iwconfig wlan0 power off" to see if switching of pm helps
Jul 11 16:32:55 <pbrook> However the same thing happens with other access points.
Jul 11 16:34:34 <suihkulokki> pbrook: perhaps this: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1636
Jul 11 16:35:16 <pbrook> Yes that looks like the same thing.
Jul 11 16:36:23 <pbrook> Disabling pm sems to do the trick, thanks.
Jul 11 16:37:04 <KaylaKaze> dammit! stupid program won't install 'cause it wants python 2.4 instead of 2.5. grrr
Jul 11 16:40:25 <adam2> anyone know what nokia n800 uses for text prediction?
Jul 11 16:40:47 <trevarth1n> KaylaKaze: You trying to install MaemoChron?
Jul 11 16:40:49 <adam2> i've looked at xkbd and matchbook-keyboard but don't see that feature
Jul 11 16:42:15 <trevarth1n> KaylaKaze: whatever it is, log in as root and use dpkg -f or --force or whatever the option is to ignore dep restrictions. Then edit the python source file of the installed file and point it in the right direction.
Jul 11 16:42:39 <trevarth1n> As far as I know, everything written for python 2.4 works fine with python 2.5.
Jul 11 16:42:54 <trevarth1n> the reverse isn't true, but that isn't the case here.
Jul 11 16:45:06 <jerrell> Anyone here using minimo on an n770 to browse local files ? I get a segfault whenever I try...
Jul 11 16:47:47 <Jaffa> trevarthan: I uninstalled MaemoChron and never re-installed it after it ate all my battery very quickly
Jul 11 16:49:38 <alterego> Has anyone found a maemo compatible debian repository out there yet?
Jul 11 16:50:09 <alterego> Well, an armel N800 debian repository.
Jul 11 16:51:31 <adam2> does anyone know anything about the text prediction coding?
Jul 11 16:51:47 <dick-richardson> gnumeric on my n800 won't open xls files since the latest release...what am I missing?
Jul 11 16:52:02 <dick-richardson> gnome-plugins-extra?
Jul 11 16:52:03 <adam2> is that proprietary or is it a maemo feature
Jul 11 16:52:53 <dick-richardson> opening xls files? I believe it's a gnumeric feature
Jul 11 16:53:15 <disqk> adam2: afaik it is proprietary
Jul 11 16:53:54 <adam2> disqk: thanks, that's not what i wanted to hear, but thanks
Jul 11 16:54:31 <trevarth1n> Jaffa: yeah, me too. I like the idea, but man can that thing eat CPU.
Jul 11 16:55:01 <dick-richardson> Anyone else opening xls files with their n800 and the latest firmware?
Jul 11 16:59:41 <KaylaKaze> trevarth1n: thanks. It is maemochron
Jul 11 17:04:08 <KaylaKaze> is there a decent frontend for mplayer?
Jul 11 17:04:47 <trevarth1n> audio or video?
Jul 11 17:05:05 <ericz> in real linux distros, there's gmplayer, but no clue if there's a port for it [doubt it]
Jul 11 17:06:10 <KaylaKaze> gmplayer is the name of the completely worthless frontend that comes with maemo mplayer but it's, as I said, completely worthless
Jul 11 17:06:24 <trevarth1n> for video, there is kmplayer, which is ok. But personally I like the mplayer frontend that comes with mplayer for maemo. It's very simplistic.
Jul 11 17:06:27 <KaylaKaze> trevarth1n: Audio mostly, but video wouldn't hurt
Jul 11 17:06:41 <trevarth1n> well, for audio....
Jul 11 17:06:42 <trevarth1n> kagu?
Jul 11 17:06:43 <_Monkey> kagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu
Jul 11 17:07:05 <trevarth1n> written in python. :)
Jul 11 17:08:50 <KaylaKaze> the default mplayer front end's major problem is it uses the default file/open window system which is horrible when you're dealing with large shared folders
Jul 11 17:09:25 <dick-richardson> I need to force an install from a repo w/o dependency checking...how do you phrase the apt-get command?
Jul 11 17:09:48 <trevarth1n> yeah, I don't really use large folders of anything with mplayer for video. For audio, I use mplayer and kagu. Seems to work pretty well.
Jul 11 17:10:22 <trevarth1n> dick-richardson: I check `dpkg -h` for the syntax
Jul 11 17:10:42 <trevarth1n> it'll be something like dpkg -i --force or something
Jul 11 17:11:13 <dick-richardson> the problem with dpkg is apt-get won't even let me download the conflicting pkg
Jul 11 17:11:15 <KaylaKaze> I wish I could get canoe to open certain files with certain programs/scripts
Jul 11 17:11:17 <trevarth1n> oh, you have to download the deb manually that way.
Jul 11 17:11:38 <trevarth1n> I wish a lot of things about canola.
Jul 11 17:11:39 <dick-richardson> apt-get isn't letting me
Jul 11 17:11:46 <trevarth1n> dick: use wget
Jul 11 17:11:57 <dick-richardson> I don't know the exact file name
Jul 11 17:11:58 <trevarth1n> and google
Jul 11 17:13:08 <KaylaKaze> not canola, canoe
Jul 11 17:13:31 <KaylaKaze> canola is just even more worthless with shared forlders than the mplayer frontend
Jul 11 17:14:53 <trevarth1n> ah. never noticed canoe before.
Jul 11 17:16:24 <KaylaKaze> even when it tries to open files though, they don't open. I've noticed the same when trying to get somehting to open from a command line: the program will start but it won't open the file told to
Jul 11 17:19:24 <disq> did you try canola-mplayer and set it up to use mplayer from the configurator?
Jul 11 17:19:35 <KaylaKaze> no
Jul 11 17:19:39 <KaylaKaze> never saw a need to
Jul 11 17:19:49 <disq> canola's shared media browser is the fastest for me
Jul 11 17:20:01 <trevarth1n> huh. didn't even know there was a canola-mplayer. I'm just learning all kinds of stuff today.
Jul 11 17:20:08 <KaylaKaze> the problem with canola isn't how it plays but it won't add shared folders to it's list of local files
Jul 11 17:20:15 <disq> of course there are some shortcuts for example holding the fullscreen button transforms the arrow touchkeys to home and end
Jul 11 17:20:52 <disq> list of local files? i don't follow
Jul 11 17:21:19 <KaylaKaze> when you start canola, it has local and shared sections
Jul 11 17:21:27 <KaylaKaze> shared is for UPnP shares
Jul 11 17:21:42 <KaylaKaze> local is for files on the 770 and MC
Jul 11 17:22:03 <KaylaKaze> you can configure which folders it scans for "local" in the configuration
Jul 11 17:22:35 <KaylaKaze> but when I add the mounted shares, it either ignores them or screws up 'cause it still shows my list as emptyh
Jul 11 17:23:56 <KaylaKaze> what I should do is make a webpage that controls winamp and have it output a shoutcast stream so I can have full access to my mp3s from any wifi point
Jul 11 17:24:21 <gla55> winamp webinterface exists already
Jul 11 17:24:30 <gla55> works wonderfully from 770
Jul 11 17:24:37 <trevarthan> or you could just install gnump3d or some similar mp3 streaming app.
Jul 11 17:25:00 <trevarthan> I use gnump3d and like it. Has downsampling too.
Jul 11 17:25:01 <KaylaKaze> yeah, but I've never seen one with all that much control options
Jul 11 17:25:23 <trevarthan> nah, it just hands you an mp3. The control is on the application end.
Jul 11 17:25:41 <trevarthan> s/mp3/m3u/
Jul 11 17:25:41 <infobot> trevarthan meant: nah, it just hands you an m3u. The control is on the application end.
Jul 11 17:26:30 <KaylaKaze> gnump3d looks good
Jul 11 17:26:47 <disq> KaylaKaze: did you try making the canola rescan after actually mounting the sharedir?
Jul 11 17:26:57 <KaylaKaze> disq: yep
Jul 11 17:27:08 <KaylaKaze> it looked like it was scanning
Jul 11 17:27:23 <KaylaKaze> took a few minutes, then said it was done
Jul 11 17:27:31 <KaylaKaze> but still nothing on my local files
Jul 11 17:27:38 <disq> and the mount destination was in the dirs-to-scan thingy in webconfig, right
Jul 11 17:27:45 <trevarthan> I could never get a single upnp file to play in canola. It could see them, but that was it. upnp is garbage without a transcoder. what do they call those? media adapters?
Jul 11 17:27:48 <KaylaKaze> yep
Jul 11 17:28:23 <KaylaKaze> upnp worked fine for me in canola. I just couldn't find a server I liked that didn't crash all the time
Jul 11 17:28:42 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: canola just play what is know, if you added support for some media and it's not aware, you have to edit gconf and it will reconsider
Jul 11 17:28:49 <trevarthan> I'm using mythtv's. not sure if it exported my music or not thought.
Jul 11 17:28:53 <disq> i would open a bug in garage.maemo.org/projects/canola, just for the sake of completeness
Jul 11 17:28:56 <trevarthan> s/thought/though/
Jul 11 17:28:56 <infobot> trevarthan meant: I'm using mythtv's. not sure if it exported my music or not though.
Jul 11 17:29:00 <disq> maybe there's a workaround etc.
Jul 11 17:29:01 <k-s[WORK]> KaylaKaze: twonky is good
Jul 11 17:29:24 <k-s[WORK]> infobot: mythtv upnp is crap, as is gmediaserver and ushare
Jul 11 17:29:25 <infobot> okay, k-s[WORK]
Jul 11 17:29:26 <disq> on windows, windows media connect works for me
Jul 11 17:29:37 <disq> fuppes worked for me for audio but didn't use it much
Jul 11 17:29:37 <k-s[WORK]> stupid me
Jul 11 17:29:39 <k-s[WORK]> :-P
Jul 11 17:29:41 <trevarthan> lol
Jul 11 17:29:48 <k-s[WORK]> on windows, tversity is good enough
Jul 11 17:30:00 <k-s[WORK]> I've mailed them the problems I found and they fixed
Jul 11 17:30:15 <trevarthan> I tried tversity too. I couldn't get it to transcode on the fly though. garbage. all garbage.
Jul 11 17:30:32 <disq> most of the transcoding solutions are garbage, yes
Jul 11 17:30:33 <k-s[WORK]> gmediaserver and ushare both use libupnp, which is buggy, we've sent some bug fixes, but don't have time to fix all
Jul 11 17:30:38 <KaylaKaze> I liked fuppes but it always crashed
Jul 11 17:30:50 <k-s[WORK]> trevarthan: really? it seems to use ffmpeg and does a great job
Jul 11 17:31:09 <k-s[WORK]> KaylaKaze: which kind of crashes? I use it at home to transcode for ps3
Jul 11 17:31:12 <KaylaKaze> I'm installing gnump3d now
Jul 11 17:31:20 <disq> and what's with the crappy interfaces :) (think tversity)
Jul 11 17:31:29 <k-s[WORK]> I've heard that mediathomb is good, but never tried
Jul 11 17:33:03 <trevarthan> k-s[WORK]: I dunno, maybe it's because I was using it under vmware, or maybe it's because it was trying to transcode nuppelvideo. But I couldn't even get a picture out of tversity with my n800.
Jul 11 17:33:20 <k-s[WORK]> too bad
Jul 11 17:33:41 <k-s[WORK]> maemo's media player is horrible, maybe you should try our mplayer plugin
Jul 11 17:33:57 <k-s[WORK]> you can define cache and other config with ~/.mplayer/config
Jul 11 17:35:31 <trevarthan> I've become complacent with pre-transcoding my video using a slightly modified 770-encode.pl and just dumping them on my mmc card. Less hassle, and portable.
Jul 11 17:37:04 <trevarthan> One day we'll all be using upnp, but I don't think that day is here yet.
Jul 11 17:39:23 <KaylaKaze> great. gnump3d's indexing perl script is bad
Jul 11 17:40:25 <trevarthan> you want mine? I remember I patched a few odds and ends. Only took a second...
Jul 11 17:42:31 <KaylaKaze> how much stuff needed changing? It's saying $file is uninitialized
Jul 11 17:44:46 <trevarthan> KaylaKaze: which version did you grab? I'm running 2.9.7. You're talking about gnump3d-index, right?
Jul 11 17:46:17 <dick-richardson> anyone have a good maemo-mapper url?
Jul 11 17:46:33 <KaylaKaze> foudn some web pages on it
Jul 11 17:46:41 <KaylaKaze> yep
Jul 11 17:46:48 <KaylaKaze> I got whatever the newest is
Jul 11 17:48:31 <cesman> 1.47
Jul 11 17:50:24 <KaylaKaze> wow! some of these errors are so blatant!
Jul 11 18:01:25 <KaylaKaze> I don't know what this program is doing but it's using every bit of cpu it can get
Jul 11 18:13:44 <KaylaKaze> ah... it was rescanning... now if I could just get it to run as a subdiectory of my apache server instead of as an entirely separate server, I'd be all set
Jul 11 18:18:10 <alterego> Are there any binaries available for wireless-tools? I can't find them anywhere ..
Jul 11 18:42:53 <alterego> The N800 can go up to 400Mhz?
Jul 11 18:45:05 <Abulafia> how do you oc the n800?
Jul 11 18:47:17 <gla55_> i'm not aware of any tools for that
Jul 11 18:49:25 <alterego> Appearantly you can with CPUFreq
Jul 11 18:49:36 <gla55_> does it work?
Jul 11 18:49:37 <gla55_> really?
Jul 11 18:49:41 <alterego> At least, I think you might be able to.
Jul 11 18:50:04 <gla55_> it's in the region of things i wouldn't say you can without actually trying it out
Jul 11 18:50:15 <gla55_> "you could use the 3d chip" too
Jul 11 18:50:19 <alterego> There are issues with CPUFreq and the N800. But there was a case study using the N800 for better power management and the chip is supposed to be running at 400Mhz.
Jul 11 18:50:44 <alterego> I'd love to use the video chip. But is it even wired up to the screen? :D
Jul 11 18:52:49 <Abulafia> heh
Jul 11 18:53:15 <alterego> For instance, there's a TV Out on the chip too ..
Jul 11 18:53:36 <gla55_> tvout is wonderful on n95
Jul 11 18:53:40 <alterego> I wonder whether that has something to do with the "Nokia AV 3.5mm jack"
Jul 11 18:53:56 <gla55_> nokia av jack is like the av jack on video ipods
Jul 11 18:54:03 <gla55_> havent actually measured if they're totally identical
Jul 11 18:54:11 <alterego> Eh?
Jul 11 18:54:12 <Abulafia> wonder if it is supposed to be the big future surprise for the n800
Jul 11 18:54:21 <alterego> Yeah,
Jul 11 18:54:25 <alterego> If there is a suprise :P
Jul 11 18:54:31 <alterego> The iPhone can't do it ^_^
Jul 11 18:54:34 <gla55_> alterego: a 3.5mm phone jack that has extra connecting area
Jul 11 18:54:35 <Abulafia> suprise, no suprise!
Jul 11 18:54:52 <alterego> Heh
Jul 11 18:55:15 <Abulafia> tho between video and mesh wireless....
Jul 11 18:55:17 <alterego> gla55_, right. I get that. But is it wired up properly?! :)
Jul 11 18:55:24 <Abulafia> ill take the wireless :-)
Jul 11 18:55:35 <alterego> I'd take the PowerVR accelleration
Jul 11 18:55:37 <gla55_> beats me. would have to open up a n800 to make even guesses
Jul 11 18:55:41 <gla55_> powervr would be really good
Jul 11 18:55:48 <gla55_> it's really nice on e90 and n95
Jul 11 18:56:03 <alterego> Yes, the first thing I'm gonna do when it arrives in the next few days is take the damn thing apart ^_^
Jul 11 18:56:17 <alterego> I've been thinking of getting an N95
Jul 11 18:56:43 <Abulafia> http://tabletblog.com/2007/01/nokia-n800-dissection-and-reassembly.html
Jul 11 18:56:56 <Abulafia> been done
Jul 11 18:56:58 <gla55_> the new firmware for n95 _really_ speeds up the gps fix(new fw has agps)
Jul 11 18:57:03 <gla55_> makes it much more usable
Jul 11 18:57:16 <Abulafia> ah powervr. brings back such memories.
Jul 11 18:57:39 <Abulafia> my first 3d card was a matrox m3d. anyone remember those?
Jul 11 18:57:58 <gla55_> sort of
Jul 11 18:58:03 <gla55_> i had a voodoo
Jul 11 18:58:03 <Abulafia> it was a supplemental 3d card for 2d cards
Jul 11 18:58:12 <gla55_> played around a bit with glide too
Jul 11 18:58:23 <gla55_> with powervr?
Jul 11 18:58:24 <timtimred> anyone see the possible next gen nokia tablet on engadget?
Jul 11 18:58:32 <Abulafia> but it did transfers over the internal bus, not patch cable
Jul 11 18:58:34 <Abulafia> yeah
Jul 11 18:58:40 <Abulafia> it was like 1998 or so
Jul 11 18:58:41 <gla55_> my bro had a powervr addon card(pci to overlays)
Jul 11 18:59:04 <gla55_> not matrox but some generic brand though
Jul 11 18:59:34 <Abulafia> same thing
Jul 11 18:59:39 <Abulafia> nice little card
Jul 11 18:59:55 <gla55_> yeah
Jul 11 19:00:04 <Abulafia> i remember i had one of those isa/pci slots, where there was room enough for one
Jul 11 19:00:12 <gla55_> voodoos sucked in the respect that you couldnt get windowed..
Jul 11 19:00:30 <gla55_> i had a pci dvd decoding card though that was via patch cable that DID windowed
Jul 11 19:00:39 <Abulafia> so i took the slot strip off the m3d and jammed it in to get an extra slot ;-)
Jul 11 19:00:50 <gla55_> hehe
Jul 11 19:00:55 <gla55_> could have used a riser too
Jul 11 19:01:06 <Abulafia> the card was so tiny, it didnt matter
Jul 11 19:01:31 <Abulafia> i had it paired to a 8mb millenium
Jul 11 19:01:38 <Abulafia> now that was a nice 2d card
Jul 11 19:05:45 <Luria> wow, nostalgia
Jul 11 19:05:47 <Luria> http://www.computerbase.de/bild/article/69/
Jul 11 19:08:04 <cy-> woot flashing the latest firmware
Jul 11 19:08:34 <Luria> bye bye apps
Jul 11 19:08:58 <Luria> flashing firmware = 4 hours of bs
Jul 11 19:09:34 <Veggen> Luria: THat page missed Hercules :)
Jul 11 19:09:44 <Luria> god the package manager sucks.
Jul 11 19:09:49 <Luria> yeah, i noticed
Jul 11 19:10:40 <Luria> you know, more than once in the last few years, having a pci video card around has been handy :-)
Jul 11 19:11:00 <gla55_> yeah
Jul 11 19:11:05 <gla55_> some bonk stuff is good to have around
Jul 11 19:11:16 <Luria> most memorably when i got my first pcie motherboard, before my 7800gtx arrived
Jul 11 19:12:06 <Luria> it was wonky tho - i think the bios kept ocing it (even tho i set 33mhz for the bus in bios)
Jul 11 19:12:15 <Luria> many a blue screen
Jul 11 19:12:45 <gla55_> voodoo was fun to oc
Jul 11 19:12:51 <gla55_> just settin env in dos
Jul 11 19:14:41 <Luria> good stuff
Jul 11 19:15:31 <Luria> takes me back to the days of aq2
Jul 11 19:23:16 <Luria> is there a way to get a value for the current (no pun intended) voltage on the n800?
Jul 11 19:23:35 <Luria> for the battery
Jul 11 19:28:08 <alterego> Should be in the /sys/class dir somewhere.
Jul 11 19:28:19 <alterego> Usually under battery.
Jul 11 19:28:25 <Luria> thanks
Jul 11 19:28:47 <alterego> It's relative to min_voltage and max_voltage
Jul 11 19:28:55 <alterego> Located in the same directory
Jul 11 19:38:50 <KaylaKaze> This gnump3d is great except downsampling gives bad audio :-(
Jul 11 19:40:05 <metatron> is there anything on the n800 that handles wma streams correctly?
Jul 11 19:40:07 <sickguy> Hi I'm a new N770 user, welcome myself to the channel
Jul 11 19:40:31 <metatron> ive found that if the playlist has two stream elements, only the first plays
Jul 11 19:41:56 <sickguy> Anyone know what's the best way to play Youtube? I followed the 1024k.de link but I couldn't add the bookmarklet to the Opera browser as the javascript is too long
Jul 11 19:43:35 <sickguy> the link is at http://1024k.de/bookmarklets/video-bookmarklets.html
Jul 11 19:43:37 <sickguy> anyone please?
Jul 11 19:45:06 <cesman> sickguy: perhaps uktube....
Jul 11 19:45:23 <sickguy> uktube? is it an app for N770?
Jul 11 19:45:28 <cesman> I've not used it myself, but that maybe your best bet
Jul 11 19:47:04 <sickguy> oh I think they're talking about the apps to play youtube file, I already have mplayer
Jul 11 19:47:36 <sickguy> but my problem is not able to save the youtube file as .flv , not playing them after saving the files
Jul 11 19:50:30 <cesman> sickguy: when seeking help. I suggest you learn how to ask the right question
Jul 11 19:50:54 <cesman> first you asked about playing, then I gave a suggestion...
Jul 11 19:51:05 <sickguy> My question is: How do you go to a youtube page, and save the video as .flv file so that you can play it with mplayer or uktube
Jul 11 19:51:05 <cesman> now you have to save the file not play it....
Jul 11 19:52:05 <sickguy> sorry for the confusion, I asked " I followed the 1024k.de link but I couldn't add the bookmarklet to the Opera browser as the javascript is too long"
Jul 11 19:54:19 <sickguy> but thanks for your suggestion anyway, now I know that's an uktube besides mplayer :)
Jul 11 19:59:10 <sickguy> any more suggestions? anyone playing youtube with the N770?
Jul 11 20:01:22 <Luria> it barely plays on the n800 with the firmware update... good luck
Jul 11 20:02:10 <sickguy> even after saving the videos as .flv files?
Jul 11 20:02:47 <sickguy> arrgh... I bought the N770 thinking it can play youtube.
Jul 11 20:02:50 <Luria> no, flvs play "offline"
Jul 11 20:04:09 <sickguy> Yes, I just want to be able to save Youtube video as .flv files and play offline, I thought it's doable
Jul 11 20:04:37 <KaylaKaze> are you able to save the flvs in the first place?
Jul 11 20:04:38 <nate12o6> does anyong know what the current url is for google maps on Maemo Mapper?
Jul 11 20:05:02 <KaylaKaze> url for what part? I got some good URLs from the ITT forum
Jul 11 20:05:06 <suihkulokki> sickguy: http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/
Jul 11 20:05:23 <nate12o6> the url that must be put in so that it can download the maps
Jul 11 20:05:39 <sickguy> no, I can't save flvs now. that's my main problem now, i haven't tried playing flvs yet
Jul 11 20:05:58 <suihkulokki> sickguy: or just google for "youtube downloader"
Jul 11 20:06:23 <Luria> have you tried uktube?
Jul 11 20:06:45 <Luria> http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-93c62ca21fd911dc99eb61fbc5cc9c7f9c7f
Jul 11 20:07:01 <nate12o6> KaylaKaze do you know of any urls that work?
Jul 11 20:07:02 <sickguy> no i haven't tried uktube or mplayer yet, cuz I still can't save FLVs from youtube
Jul 11 20:07:31 <nate12o6> when i go to http://kh.google.com/kh?n=404&v=6&t=%s it says page not found
Jul 11 20:07:50 <sickguy> Thanks suih i will try to look it up.
Jul 11 20:07:52 <mazzen> sickguy: you could try http://keepvid.com/
Jul 11 20:09:12 <sickguy> I heard of keepvids, but I think this link is better but I just can't get it to work.
Jul 11 20:09:16 <sickguy> http://1024k.de/bookmarklets/video-bookmarklets.html
Jul 11 20:10:06 <sickguy> you're just supposed to bookmark the javascript, and run it on a youtube page and it'll ask you to save the flv file
Jul 11 20:10:57 <sickguy> but the problem is when I try to save the javascript as bookmark, the script is too long and gets truncated so it won't work on the default opera browser in N770
Jul 11 20:13:08 <nate12o6> has anyone tried to get the videos at m.youtube.com to work on the 770?
Jul 11 20:13:13 <nate12o6> by using mplayer
Jul 11 20:15:46 <KaylaKaze> I'm trying to use that python youtube downloader but I gt a "no module named getpass" error :-(
Jul 11 20:16:31 <KaylaKaze> nate12o6: check the internettablettalk site forums. There's a thread there with tons of map links for maemo mapper
Jul 11 20:17:50 <nate12o6> KaylaKaze i just read through abou 50 pages of maemo mapper threads.  can you direct me towards one?
Jul 11 20:18:08 <||cw> anyone figure out offline routing for mapper yet?
Jul 11 20:18:39 <Luria> warez navicore (j/k)
Jul 11 20:18:57 <||cw> nate12o6: you don't "go to" kh.... it's actualy kh1 or kh2 and so on, mapper knows this and will add it
Jul 11 20:19:22 <KaylaKaze> thread 3514 on itt
Jul 11 20:19:48 <lmoura> KaylaKaze, what python version are you using?
Jul 11 20:19:50 <KaylaKaze> ||cw I think mine works offline for my area
Jul 11 20:19:53 <KaylaKaze> 2.5
Jul 11 20:20:36 <nate12o6> KaylaKaze thanks
Jul 11 20:20:53 <||cw> KaylaKaze: I only have a download option
Jul 11 20:21:15 <nate12o6> so no dice on getting the mobile version of youtube to work?
Jul 11 20:21:27 <lmoura> KaylaKaze, you need the python-dev package
Jul 11 20:21:45 <||cw> nate12o6: um, v=17, not 6, i think
Jul 11 20:21:47 <mazzen> sickguy: hm... as i said above, the jslink for keepvid is shorter: javascript:document.location='http://keepvid.com/?url='+escape(window.location); but what kind of flash player do you have installed to play youtube files on the 770?
Jul 11 20:21:54 <lmoura> KaylaKaze, http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/manual_installation.html
Jul 11 20:22:06 <||cw> nate12o6: go to maps.google.com and rightclick and image, properties, see what the URL is
Jul 11 20:22:16 <lmoura> KaylaKaze, there's a section in the bottom of the page about python-dev
Jul 11 20:22:47 <KaylaKaze> well, I found a webpage that does the downloading so no problem
Jul 11 20:23:07 <_Shurik_> top of the end of the workday to ya all
Jul 11 20:23:31 <lmoura> KaylaKaze, ok
Jul 11 20:23:39 <KaylaKaze> ||cw: to save maps, you go into the map manager
Jul 11 20:23:59 <KaylaKaze> youtubed has big files :-(
Jul 11 20:24:08 <||cw> KaylaKaze: I know, but he's having problem stealing the URL :)
Jul 11 20:24:41 <KaylaKaze> well, that thread number I gavr has the links I use
Jul 11 20:25:36 <||cw> it's easier for me to just steal them from google directly
Jul 11 20:25:50 <||cw> and they do have to be updated every now and then
Jul 11 20:26:21 <||cw> I just wish there was a single url for the hybrid view
Jul 11 20:28:27 <KaylaKaze> anyone know what directory the "Documents" folder corresponds to?
Jul 11 20:28:43 <_Shurik_> ~/MyDocs
Jul 11 20:29:07 <_Shurik_> or something like that
Jul 11 20:29:13 <Veggen> I find that directory structure quite non-logical.
Jul 11 20:29:15 <Veggen> it
Jul 11 20:29:24 <KaylaKaze> it's not MyDocs
Jul 11 20:29:25 <Veggen> 's ~/MyDocs/.documents
Jul 11 20:29:29 <KaylaKaze> ah,. ok
Jul 11 20:29:32 <KaylaKaze> hidden
Jul 11 20:30:24 <_Shurik_> well
Jul 11 20:30:46 <_Shurik_> I store everything on mmc1 anyway so I don't care
Jul 11 20:31:00 <KaylaKaze> mplayer playing a flv. yay!
Jul 11 20:31:12 <KaylaKaze> good speed too
Jul 11 20:31:37 <nate12o6> is there any way to have that as a plugin for minimo?
Jul 11 20:31:53 <KaylaKaze> ?
Jul 11 20:32:18 <||cw> like a port of mplayer-plugin?
Jul 11 20:33:58 <nate12o6> yea
Jul 11 20:34:15 <nate12o6> so we dont ahve to jump through hoops to get youtube to play
Jul 11 20:34:26 <Luria> is there a graphical file manager for the n800?
Jul 11 20:34:29 <nate12o6> would be nice to just be able to browse to youtube.com and click the video
Jul 11 20:34:36 <_Shurik_> youtube plays just fine in opera
Jul 11 20:34:43 <_Shurik_> Luria: what is that?
Jul 11 20:34:43 <_Monkey> i guess that is a sign of good news
Jul 11 20:34:56 <nate12o6> _Shurik_ opera on the 770?
Jul 11 20:35:13 <Luria> i mean a replacement for the stock file manager
Jul 11 20:35:31 <_Shurik_> yes. Xterm
Jul 11 20:35:34 <Luria> something that knows how to say, copy a file
Jul 11 20:35:40 <KaylaKaze> eeek mplayer screwed up and I can't kill it
Jul 11 20:35:46 <_Shurik_> stock doesn't know how to copy?
Jul 11 20:35:51 <KaylaKaze> luria: canoe should work
Jul 11 20:36:08 <Luria> it only moves
Jul 11 20:36:23 <Luria> kaylakaze: thank you
Jul 11 20:36:41 <_Shurik_> you can Copy and then paste...
Jul 11 20:37:05 <cbx33> ping OgMaciel
Jul 11 20:37:38 <cbx33> to get XTerm I guess I just goto the maemo site, click on term and it installs right???
Jul 11 20:38:01 <_Shurik_> cbx33: let me know if you find the way, I still can't for some reason :)
Jul 11 20:38:12 <cbx33> oh?
Jul 11 20:38:20 <cbx33> from what I saw it adds the maemo repo
Jul 11 20:38:23 <cbx33> and then apt-get's it
Jul 11 20:38:28 <cbx33> am I right guys?
Jul 11 20:38:29 <OgMaciel> cbx33: pong
Jul 11 20:38:36 <_Shurik_> I must be doing something wrong then
Jul 11 20:38:43 <cbx33> oh and another thing....if I screw everything upo....will a reflash get it all back
Jul 11 20:38:44 <cbx33> ??
Jul 11 20:38:58 <_Shurik_> I can't get libncurses to instal
Jul 11 20:38:59 <cbx33> OgMaciel you insatlled from the maemo repos?
Jul 11 20:39:22 <OgMaciel> cbx33: yup
Jul 11 20:39:37 <cbx33> and they're good?
Jul 11 20:39:47 * cbx33 is scared of deadening his new N800
Jul 11 20:40:11 <_Shurik_> no worries, just buy another one :)
Jul 11 20:40:22 <cbx33> HAHAH
Jul 11 20:40:30 <Luria> and send me the dead one ;-)
Jul 11 20:40:31 <cbx33> i guess a reflash will fix it
Jul 11 20:40:35 <timtimred> and if you deaden it one question remains; will it blend?
Jul 11 20:40:44 <Veggen> I haven
Jul 11 20:40:51 <Luria> nope. just iphones.
Jul 11 20:40:54 <OgMaciel> cbx33: live big dude  ;)
Jul 11 20:40:59 <_Shurik_> hehe
Jul 11 20:41:07 <_Shurik_> well, just wait for n900
Jul 11 20:41:07 <Veggen> 't heard of a software problem that couldn't be fixed with a reflash?
Jul 11 20:41:25 <cbx33> OgMaciel dude I bnonught this
Jul 11 20:41:30 <cbx33> heheh
Jul 11 20:41:30 <cbx33> loads of cool people get theirs free
Jul 11 20:41:30 <cbx33> hehe
Jul 11 20:41:30 <Veggen> the n800 is quite good in that regards, no? Quite failsave.
Jul 11 20:41:31 <cbx33> I had to pay for mine
Jul 11 20:41:32 <Veggen> eh,safe.
Jul 11 20:41:34 <Luria> blenders make pretty soft wares.
Jul 11 20:41:35 <cbx33> I DO NOT wanna mess up
Jul 11 20:41:45 <cbx33> cool
Jul 11 20:41:50 <cbx33> I'll install terminal now then
Jul 11 20:41:55 <Luria> yikes lag
Jul 11 20:42:03 <cbx33> from the maemo site right
Jul 11 20:42:06 <_Shurik_> cbx33: let me know
Jul 11 20:42:06 <cbx33> hehehe
Jul 11 20:42:09 <cbx33> ok
Jul 11 20:42:22 <_Shurik_> I just didn't have enough time to mess with it
Jul 11 20:42:33 <tigert> http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/cnctoast
Jul 11 20:42:58 <cbx33> bbl
Jul 11 20:43:03 <Luria> a canoe is perfect
Jul 11 20:43:10 <disq> mmm. the garage is out of free space
Jul 11 20:43:13 <cbx33> osso xterm?
Jul 11 20:43:17 <Luria> just what i needed
Jul 11 20:43:35 <_Shurik_> Luria: how come stock couldn't do copy/paste?
Jul 11 20:43:40 <disq> garage.maemo.org: An error occured in the logger. ERROR: could not extend relation "activity_log": No space left on device HINT: Check free disk space.
Jul 11 20:43:41 <disq> always fun
Jul 11 20:44:22 <cbx33> is osso xterm the best to use?
Jul 11 20:44:36 <Luria> shurik: i just didnt like the default move, esp across mounted volumes
Jul 11 20:44:38 <trevarthan> disq: and that would be why I'm hosting kagu on my personal server.
Jul 11 20:44:54 <_Shurik_> Luria: I see
Jul 11 20:44:58 <Luria> shurik: i mean drag= move
Jul 11 20:45:13 <_Shurik_> ah, okay
Jul 11 20:46:15 <Luria> i also hated the fact that it used the default open dialog style ("Documents") rather than reality ("/MyDocs/.documents")
Jul 11 20:47:12 <_Shurik_> T - 5 mins
Jul 11 20:47:13 <Luria> if you are using a file manager, you should be able to grasp the concept of... i dunno, files and directories?
Jul 11 20:48:33 <alterego> That PowerVR chip looks funky.
Jul 11 20:48:42 <alterego> 2 million polygons a second.
Jul 11 20:49:03 <_Shurik_> nice
Jul 11 20:49:08 <alterego> It'd be nice if it worked ^_^
Jul 11 20:49:23 <alterego> It'd also be nice if the AV out worked ^_^
Jul 11 20:49:43 <_Shurik_> what for?
Jul 11 20:49:54 <alterego> Plugging into a TV of course :P
Jul 11 20:50:09 <_Shurik_> what if one doesn't own a TV?
Jul 11 20:50:21 <alterego> Then you use the screen on the N800 :P
Jul 11 20:50:29 <_Shurik_> then we need TV-in
Jul 11 20:50:46 <Luria> has anyone gotten a bluetooth gamepad (if there is such a thing) working?
Jul 11 20:50:55 <_Shurik_> my friend wanted exactly the same thing, I just think it's a missuse of tablet
Jul 11 20:51:12 <alterego> Well, there's internet streaming :P
Jul 11 20:51:19 <Luria> i think the tablet was designed to be misused :-)
Jul 11 20:51:21 <_Shurik_> Luria: I was wondering about this myself
Jul 11 20:51:22 <alterego> I'd prefer TV out over TV in
Jul 11 20:51:44 <alterego> The OMAP also doesn't support TV in :P
Jul 11 20:51:52 <_Shurik_> well, if I wanted to have a media PC I would just get a dedicated one. dunno...
Jul 11 20:51:53 <Luria> tv out, yeah. especially with a bluetooth gamepad.
Jul 11 20:51:59 <Luria> off to google.
Jul 11 20:52:01 <_Shurik_> tablet is something you browse with while watching tv :)
Jul 11 20:52:07 <alterego> I think I'm going to make it my mission to hack PowerVR and TV out (if connected properly)
Jul 11 20:52:31 <_Shurik_> usb tv out then is what we need :)
Jul 11 20:53:09 <alterego> Why USB TV out? If the TV out is connected to the headphone Jack as I suspect but could be off :) Then you just need the correct drivers/software/cable.
Jul 11 20:53:21 <alterego> Which is a standard Nokia cable if I'm right.
Jul 11 20:54:14 <_Shurik_> interesting
Jul 11 20:56:08 <alterego> The reasoning for this suspicion is on the Nokia N800 page they state that there's an "AV 3.5mm jack" which is presumable the same as the N95 et al. So looking at the OMAP datasheet, low-and-behold there's a TV A/D output.
Jul 11 20:56:16 <alterego> So, no proof :)
Jul 11 20:56:31 <alterego> Still worth investigation I think :)
Jul 11 20:57:16 <_Shurik_> sure
Jul 11 20:57:21 <_Shurik_> would be interesting to find out
Jul 11 21:01:54 <pupnik_> morning all
Jul 11 21:02:18 <pupnik_> still trying to get over the n900 design
Jul 11 21:02:20 <_Shurik_> evening
Jul 11 21:02:34 <_Shurik_> yes, somebody needs to get their photoshop skills up
Jul 11 21:02:46 <pupnik_> shopped?
Jul 11 21:03:13 <pupnik_> http://www.engadget.com/photos/is-this-the-successor-to-the-nokia-n800/306323
Jul 11 21:03:20 <_Shurik_> either that or really nokia just did hey, what would it look like with a keyboard?  Gimme some play dough
Jul 11 21:03:51 <pupnik_> the dimple on the right hand side can be from plastic moulding
Jul 11 21:03:54 <_Shurik_> so I wouldn't think it's anything really
Jul 11 21:04:01 <pupnik_> ok
Jul 11 21:04:09 <_Shurik_> other then a prototype
Jul 11 21:04:26 <_Shurik_> I'm pretty sure Vista looked even uglier the first couple of years in development :-D
Jul 11 21:04:43 <KaylaKaze> anyone ever figure out how to change what program launches when you execute something?
Jul 11 21:05:16 <_Shurik_> well I
Jul 11 21:05:23 <_Shurik_> I'm off to sit in the traffic
Jul 11 21:05:26 <_Shurik_> cya all!
Jul 11 21:13:46 <alterego> Well, it's easy to get V4L working. I guess if it's wired it's a no brainer :D
Jul 11 21:15:03 <sickguy> Well, I just came back from lunch, thanks a lot for those who helped!
Jul 11 21:15:50 <sickguy> I will try it after work, Keepvids FLV download and Mplayer
Jul 11 21:18:19 <trevarthan> well, near 5:30 here. I'm headed home. bye all.
Jul 11 21:19:06 <alterego> This is looking very promising.
Jul 11 21:23:52 <Pio> is something wrong with the repository.maemo.org scirocco repo? everything is coming up 404..
Jul 11 21:24:22 <Pio> same with mistral actually
Jul 11 21:24:43 <Pio> gregale works..
Jul 11 21:25:32 <cbx33> so...heheh..I'm back
Jul 11 21:25:40 <cbx33> do people generally use xterm, or osso term?
Jul 11 21:26:25 <alterego> I think osso-term is better suited for day-to-day use.
Jul 11 21:26:28 <cbx33> alterego you got V4L working on the N800?
Jul 11 21:26:29 <cbx33> cool
Jul 11 21:26:31 <alterego> With it's nifty short cuts :)
Jul 11 21:26:31 <cbx33> I'll get it now
Jul 11 21:26:34 <cbx33> cool
Jul 11 21:26:37 <cbx33> I'm gonna install now
Jul 11 21:26:42 <cbx33> from teh maemo website yeh?
Jul 11 21:26:52 <alterego> maemo-hackers
Jul 11 21:27:14 <cbx33> yup
Jul 11 21:27:31 <cbx33> maemo-hackers.org/osso-xterm.install
Jul 11 21:28:10 <cbx33> can programs be intalled to the memory card?
Jul 11 21:28:15 <alterego> Yes
Jul 11 21:28:23 <cbx33> oooh how?
Jul 11 21:28:31 <alterego> I believe so, though you might have to play around with the filesystme.
Jul 11 21:28:47 <cbx33> ahh ok
Jul 11 21:29:02 <alterego> I'm a bit out of touch with the whole internet tablet scene so I can't be sure. It's been a couple of years since I've been here :)
Jul 11 21:29:09 <cbx33> wow
Jul 11 21:29:16 <cbx33> well you seem to be a fountain of knowledge
Jul 11 21:29:17 <cbx33> thanks
Jul 11 21:29:20 <alterego> I'm trying desperately to catch up ^_^
Jul 11 21:29:22 <cbx33> I now have a terminal....I'm happy
Jul 11 21:29:26 <cbx33> cool
Jul 11 21:31:51 <guardian> what's the benefit of upgrading my 3.1 sdk ? now that 3.2 is released ?
Jul 11 21:32:01 <guardian> is there any reason doing it ?
Jul 11 21:32:09 <alterego> It's more up-to-date?
Jul 11 21:32:09 <guardian> since 3.2 is supposed to be fully 3.x compatible
Jul 11 21:32:30 <alterego> Check the changelog.
Jul 11 21:32:38 <alterego> Then decide whether it's worth it.
Jul 11 21:33:04 <cbx33> is repository.maemo.org ok to install from?
Jul 11 21:33:08 <cbx33> it has python ?
Jul 11 21:34:08 <theril> repository.maemo.org is ok
Jul 11 21:34:22 <cbx33> cool
Jul 11 21:34:25 <cbx33> ok here i go
Jul 11 21:34:30 <guardian> content_changes.html says nearly everything has been upgraded
Jul 11 21:34:43 <guardian> so it's difficult to see what's the inpact in the end
Jul 11 21:34:52 <cbx33> damn packages are missing
Jul 11 21:34:53 <cbx33> :(
Jul 11 21:34:59 <theril> cbx33: Which packages?
Jul 11 21:35:03 <cbx33> what the heck do i do now?
Jul 11 21:35:08 <cbx33> libglade
Jul 11 21:35:09 <_Monkey> libglade is 2.0 at max, but glade itself is 3
Jul 11 21:35:11 <cbx33> libsdl
Jul 11 21:35:17 <cbx33> libgdbm
Jul 11 21:35:19 <cbx33> libreadline
Jul 11 21:35:26 <theril> cbx33: How did you try to install it?
Jul 11 21:35:37 <theril> Clicked the install from maemo.org?
Jul 11 21:35:41 <cbx33> clicked on the intall link on the maemo website?
Jul 11 21:35:45 <cbx33> yes
Jul 11 21:35:50 <cbx33> should i apt-get install?
Jul 11 21:36:00 <theril> Install this first http://maemo.org/downloads/product/bora_sdk_repo
Jul 11 21:36:30 <cbx33> how big is it?
Jul 11 21:36:36 <theril> The application manager has a known problem that it supports only adding one repository per .install-file, so sometimes the repositories must be installed manually
Jul 11 21:36:49 <cbx33> ahh
Jul 11 21:36:55 <theril> cbx33: It's not really a package, it just adds the repository to application manager
Jul 11 21:37:04 <cbx33> oh i see
Jul 11 21:37:11 <theril> Something under 1KB i guess ;)
Jul 11 21:37:19 <cbx33> wow
Jul 11 21:37:20 <cbx33> cool
Jul 11 21:37:21 <cbx33> ok
Jul 11 21:37:23 <cbx33> python it is
Jul 11 21:37:32 <cbx33> i'm just a little cautious of running out of space
Jul 11 21:37:40 <cbx33> there's not much on the device itself
Jul 11 21:37:55 <Veggen> cbx33: there's actually quite a bit.
Jul 11 21:38:24 <cbx33> ok
Jul 11 21:38:25 <alterego> .. "The only thing that struck me as odd is that the headphone jack appeared to have one extra contact on it" .. very promising :D
Jul 11 21:38:30 <cbx33> on goes python and realted stuff
Jul 11 21:38:48 <cbx33> hope it doesn't take up too much
Jul 11 21:38:54 <cbx33> I have a gig memory card
Jul 11 21:39:02 <cbx33> wopuld like to use that at some point for installing apps
Jul 11 21:39:17 <Veggen> cbx: it's a good strategy, I feel, to leave internal storage for programs and put data on cards.
Jul 11 21:39:19 <cbx33> the battery time fluctuates a lot
Jul 11 21:39:28 <cbx33> Veggen true
Jul 11 21:39:37 <cbx33> coool python installed
Jul 11 21:40:04 <cbx33> is camera any good?
Jul 11 21:40:24 <cbx33> does fm radio work with the headphones as the antenna?
Jul 11 21:40:51 <Veggen> yah.
Jul 11 21:41:02 <cbx33> cool
Jul 11 21:42:34 <cbx33> is xchat good on maemo?
Jul 11 21:44:45 <cbx33> bbl
Jul 11 21:46:43 <pupnik_> http://i14.tinypic.com/5403m38.jpg  Nokia 770 successor -- the 970!  :P
Jul 11 21:50:24 <nate12o6> has anyone in here paired there with a bluetooth cell phone to get internet?
Jul 11 21:50:43 <nate12o6> i was able to pair it with a trio 650 but dont know what to do after that to get internet access
Jul 11 21:51:05 <nate12o6> it says that dialup networking is available but where do i go to configure all that stuff?
Jul 11 21:51:34 <pupnik> "Slightly larger and heavier than the 770, the Nokia 970 features 256MB onboard flash, 256MB ram, a 500mhz cpu, two SD card slots, a dual-mode transflective display and a 7-12 hour battery life"
Jul 11 21:51:38 <alterego> pupnik, it's a prototype, the final product probably wont look like that at all.
Jul 11 21:51:55 <pupnik> it's a mockup in the gimp i just made :P
Jul 11 21:51:57 <alterego> Besides, having a slip out keyboard would be cool imo
Jul 11 21:52:25 <alterego> pupnik, runs symbian :P
Jul 11 21:53:05 <pupnik> well for me, a larger dpad, smaller center dpad button, stero speakers and right hand side buttons would be the New Happiness (tm)
Jul 11 21:53:25 <alterego> Left handed?
Jul 11 21:53:51 <pupnik> i am, but it hardly matters.  Right hand side buttons are needed to play games.
Jul 11 21:54:19 <alterego> Chop your right hand off.
Jul 11 21:54:37 <pupnik> everyone needs right hand side buttons
Jul 11 21:55:13 <alterego> Well, my suspicion of svideo output is getting more and more concrete (in my mind) .. ^_^
Jul 11 21:55:32 <pupnik> http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3229-1.jpg
Jul 11 21:56:04 <alterego> POS :P
Jul 11 21:56:15 <alterego> It's tooooo smallll.
Jul 11 21:56:26 <alterego> And it's not a touch screen. All screens should be touch screen :P
Jul 11 22:12:24 <pupnik> I just can't bring myself to spend 200 euro for a gp2x
Jul 11 22:15:45 <pupnik> i think a slide out keyboard would be doable though using index fingers to prop-up the defice your thumbs could use the bottom keys
Jul 11 22:25:49 <alterego> That's pretty cheap pupnik
Jul 11 22:26:48 <alterego> I'm starting to salivate. I need my N800!
Jul 11 22:26:57 <alterego> Hope it turns up tomorrow. I'd be super chuffed.
Jul 11 22:28:10 <unique311> lol, i'm not too sure about your mockup pupnik....970
Jul 11 22:28:45 <alterego> Should have the 880 first :P
Jul 11 22:28:50 <alterego> Maybe even the 880e
Jul 11 22:28:55 <alterego> And the i880
Jul 11 22:29:02 <unique311> try something that doesn't look so much like the 770 or 800
Jul 11 22:29:56 <unique311> if the nokia does decide to do with a 970 that looks like that..i'm getting an iphone..
Jul 11 22:30:00 <unique311> lol
Jul 11 22:32:15 <alterego> Heh
Jul 11 22:32:24 <alterego> I will _never_ get an iPhone.
Jul 11 22:32:28 <alterego> Apple are so gay.
Jul 11 22:33:11 <timtimred> nice reasoning skills there.
Jul 11 22:33:23 <unique311> same here, but as long as the next NIT is hot stuff....
Jul 11 22:35:42 <alterego> Nice, N800 USB host mode.
Jul 11 22:38:19 <Veggen> uhm?
Jul 11 22:38:42 <alterego> With a nifty sysfs interface to toggle between OTG and Host mode :)
Jul 11 22:39:01 <alterego> I remember the 770 was unable to do that.
Jul 11 22:39:13 <Abulafia> can you do networking over n800 usb host?
Jul 11 22:39:42 <alterego> Provided you have a powered up. Yes
Jul 11 22:39:45 <Abulafia> (was asked about evdo usb dongles yesterday)
Jul 11 22:39:47 <alterego> hub ..
Jul 11 22:40:03 <Abulafia> hey, i like power ups too.
Jul 11 22:40:21 <Abulafia> i jump after all the 1-up mushrooms :-)
Jul 11 22:41:33 <alterego> Appearantly it supplies 100mA so it might be possible depending on the power suckage of the USB device.
Jul 11 22:41:48 <alterego> A memory card reader for instance may work.
Jul 11 22:42:28 <pupnik> hi unique311
Jul 11 22:43:14 <unique311> whats up
Jul 11 22:43:28 <unique311> anyone play chess?
Jul 11 22:46:22 <pupnik> yes :)
Jul 11 22:46:49 <unique311> are you any good..
Jul 11 22:47:02 <pupnik> no
Jul 11 22:47:13 <unique311> see that i don't believe...
Jul 11 22:47:25 <pupnik> maybe 3 games a year
Jul 11 22:47:35 <unique311> ok...
Jul 11 22:47:53 <unique311> i just got back into playing..
Jul 11 22:48:02 <unique311> its addictive..
Jul 11 22:48:10 <pupnik> people or computers?
Jul 11 22:48:28 <unique311> well, a person...
Jul 11 22:48:31 <edt> any idea why .deb no longer triggers the installer here?
Jul 11 22:48:58 <pupnik> whoah, on-topic questions!
Jul 11 22:48:59 <unique311> but the person wants to learn
Jul 11 22:49:00 * pupnik hides
Jul 11 22:49:17 <unique311> lol
Jul 11 22:49:18 <metatron> i find the manager to be very slow
Jul 11 22:50:06 <metatron> debs open the installer but after a couple of minutes (literally)
Jul 11 22:50:17 <edt> eg. clicking on a .deb for my box no longer wants to open with the installer...
Jul 11 22:51:03 <edt> I no longer have the option to open them.
Jul 11 22:51:04 <dick-richardson> edt: can you run dpkg -i for the file?
Jul 11 22:51:14 <edt> yes
Jul 11 22:51:40 <dick-richardson> then I dunno :(
Jul 11 22:51:48 <metatron> gah. thats how i ended up installing skype
Jul 11 22:52:38 <edt> its as if mime type got messed up
Jul 11 22:52:43 <dick-richardson> i know this is directly applicable to the channel...but skype vs. gizmo: I'm trying to decide between the 2 and just curious what experience people have had
Jul 11 22:52:48 <dick-richardson> *isn't
Jul 11 22:53:50 <dick-richardson> edt: yeah, like the front end (hildon?) doesn't know what to do w/it. is there a gconf-editor type app for the n800?
Jul 11 22:54:05 <alterego> There's one floating about somewhere I'm sure/
Jul 11 22:54:28 <metatron> gizmo is more flexible, skype has more people. i find the audio on gizmo to be better.
Jul 11 22:54:46 <metatron> pretty much what you'd expect
Jul 11 22:55:27 <dick-richardson> fairly comparable re: pricing?
Jul 11 22:56:13 <fdsd> hey guys, What do you guys think of the iPhone?
Jul 11 22:56:50 <edt> wait for v2
Jul 11 22:56:50 <roope> it's good.
Jul 11 22:56:50 <dick-richardson> it doesn't do what i need
Jul 11 22:57:09 <fdsd> I with it had terminal support
Jul 11 22:57:21 <roope> it's a smartphone for the masses.
Jul 11 22:57:35 <dick-richardson> yep. I really like scripting...but I have to have vpn and samba
Jul 11 22:57:37 <metatron> wouldnt that make it a dumbphone?
Jul 11 22:57:46 <fdsd> and I wish that it was a bit higher res on the screen like my nokia, but the glide feature they have for scrolling is impressive
Jul 11 22:58:01 <dick-richardson> hell yeah, design is flawless
Jul 11 22:58:25 <metatron> i dunno, i played with one the other day
Jul 11 22:58:37 <metatron> i dont like the browsing experience
Jul 11 22:58:41 <fdsd> metatron, I ended up buying one
Jul 11 22:58:49 <fdsd> metatron, why?
Jul 11 22:58:52 <roope> flawless is a pretty tall statement. everything has flaws.
Jul 11 22:59:11 <fdsd> roope, 1.0 software.. expect some bugs
Jul 11 22:59:25 <dick-richardson> proper names are difficult
Jul 11 22:59:33 <dick-richardson> hey, edt: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/gconf-editor
Jul 11 23:00:47 <dick-richardson> honestly, I'm not sure which entry it'd be under...but it might be worth poking around
Jul 11 23:00:57 <fdsd> I wish my nokia had a glass screen like the iPhone
Jul 11 23:00:57 <eugene> morning
Jul 11 23:01:10 <fdsd> no scratching:)
Jul 11 23:01:25 <dick-richardson> eugene: where are you? it's 6p where I am :P
Jul 11 23:01:39 <roope> but it's a really welcome boost. i will force a good response to it.
Jul 11 23:01:46 <roope> the phone market was stagnated for a while.
Jul 11 23:02:15 <eugene> dick-richardson: Singapore :)
Jul 11 23:02:21 <fdsd> roope, yeah I think the iPhone OS is light years ahead of the competition
Jul 11 23:02:47 <fdsd> I really hope developers can create cocoa apps for it by next wwdc
Jul 11 23:03:03 <roope> well, it's ... I wouldn't say life years, but. :)
Jul 11 23:03:07 <dick-richardson> fdsd: not the OS, per se...the interface. Open up the bsd underpinings and release an sdk
Jul 11 23:03:13 <roope> light years.
Jul 11 23:04:23 <fdsd> dick-richardson, well apple's interface and windowing system quartz is far ahead of Microsofts or any other phone provider or PDA company
Jul 11 23:04:34 <roope> it's running an OS and hardware that allows for a really good visual experience UI.
Jul 11 23:04:34 <dick-richardson> absolutely
Jul 11 23:04:46 <roope> but then again, something like PSP has more eye-candy stuff in its ui, for instance.
Jul 11 23:05:12 <dick-richardson> but it's so blasted limited :/
Jul 11 23:05:17 <fdsd> roope, yeah but they have not mastered ease of use
Jul 11 23:05:24 <roope> that's true.
Jul 11 23:05:45 <fdsd> They think a 4.5" Screen is "Portable"
Jul 11 23:05:58 <fdsd> well they think a PSP is portable
Jul 11 23:06:00 <alterego> Heh
Jul 11 23:06:20 <fdsd> Nokia 770 and N800 could be alittle trimmer also
Jul 11 23:07:19 <fdsd> I would love a Nintendo DS type device where the bottom part is a keyboard and the top part is a screen like the iPhone..
Jul 11 23:09:49 <dick-richardson> I'd like a slide-out keyboard for the n800, a la htc apache
Jul 11 23:10:04 <fdsd> would be nice
Jul 11 23:10:14 <fdsd> I wish the n800 had a screen cover like the nokia 770
Jul 11 23:10:54 <dick-richardson> i haven't seen it, is it just a flip cover?
Jul 11 23:11:20 <fdsd> I bought a compusa replacement warranty on my 770 so I could break it and get a free n800, but they went out of business.. damn
Jul 11 23:11:35 <fdsd> dick-richardson, slides over the screen and puts the device to sleep
Jul 11 23:12:07 <cesman> they should still cover it
Jul 11 23:12:19 <alterego> Well, the iPhone has a PowerVR MBX chip in it.
Jul 11 23:12:28 <fdsd> what is that?
Jul 11 23:12:28 <_Monkey> that is a sign of good news
Jul 11 23:12:32 <cesman> compusa isn't out of business, they just closed about half thier stores
Jul 11 23:12:47 <fdsd> all the store in my area
Jul 11 23:13:01 <cesman> mine as well
Jul 11 23:14:01 <fdsd> what is the PowerVR MBX?
Jul 11 23:14:31 <dick-richardson> it's a really good chip
Jul 11 23:14:49 <dick-richardson> power vs. performance is really good
Jul 11 23:15:04 <cesman> http://www.google.com/search?q=PowerVR+MBX&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Jul 11 23:15:33 <alterego> fdsd, it's a 2D/3D accelarator chip found in the OMAP 2420 SoC package.
Jul 11 23:15:48 <fdsd> I really hope that I can port some of my objective C cocoa code to it, I use to use layerkit way before it was called core animation
Jul 11 23:15:56 <alterego> It allows you to code in OpenGL ES
Jul 11 23:16:20 <fdsd> cool
Jul 11 23:16:32 <cesman> interesting....
Jul 11 23:16:45 <alterego> Oh, the OMAP2420 is in the N800 ;)
Jul 11 23:16:46 <cesman> same PowerVR from the 3dfx days...
Jul 11 23:16:50 <alterego> If you didn't know :)
Jul 11 23:17:02 <fdsd> wow
Jul 11 23:17:26 * cesman thought they went under or something...
Jul 11 23:17:43 <alterego> The company might have but the technology is still around.
Jul 11 23:17:56 <fdsd> I hope nokia will introduce a touch screen like the iPhone
Jul 11 23:18:02 <dick-richardson> nvidia bought them, back in the day, didnt' they?
Jul 11 23:18:07 <cesman> same name, same logo
Jul 11 23:18:14 <alterego> Imagination Technologies have joined forces with ARM to provide accelerated 3D graphics for SoC packages.
Jul 11 23:18:29 <fdsd> wow
Jul 11 23:18:30 <roope> the iphone is a bit weird, the keyboard only allows to press one key at a time.
Jul 11 23:18:32 <alterego> Using PowerVR MBX technologies.
Jul 11 23:18:42 <roope> one would think that that would be exactly the thing they would use "multi-touch".
Jul 11 23:20:15 <fdsd> roope, you can hit two at a time but it doesnt register what key came first
Jul 11 23:21:08 <alterego> Hahahah.
Jul 11 23:21:15 <alterego> They're developing N800 drivers!
Jul 11 23:21:25 <alterego> This is _too_ cool!
Jul 11 23:22:23 <derf> SoC?
Jul 11 23:22:27 <derf> Summer of Code?
Jul 11 23:22:40 <alterego> No idea.
Jul 11 23:22:51 <derf> Oh, System on a Chip.
Jul 11 23:23:24 <alterego> Oh, you wanted to know what I meant sorry :)
Jul 11 23:23:31 <alterego> I thought you were talking about the driver development.
Jul 11 23:23:41 * cesman thinks the ultimate Linux portable device woul combine a N800 and a GP2x
Jul 11 23:23:50 <fdsd> Damn my apple store close to me has no iPhones, I wanted to take my girlfriend's dad to get one
Jul 11 23:25:09 <fdsd> compiz on a nokia n800.. a man can dream
Jul 11 23:25:17 <fdsd> its made for the touch interface
Jul 11 23:27:15 <alterego> Would be neat.
Jul 11 23:28:55 <KaylaKaze> anyone think it'd be cool to have a game like shining force but for fighting you have like 3 seconds or so to draw symbols for attacking (a slash for a standard attack, and other more complex symbols for spells and such)?
Jul 11 23:29:15 <GeneralAntilles> Symbols are never any fun.
Jul 11 23:29:21 <GeneralAntilles> See Black & White
Jul 11 23:29:30 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds like a DS title, anyway.
Jul 11 23:29:46 <KaylaKaze> that's 'cause the DS is the only major touch screen platform
Jul 11 23:29:53 <GeneralAntilles> Good point. :P
Jul 11 23:30:08 <GeneralAntilles> I want multitouch and PowerVR drivers for games.
Jul 11 23:30:26 <GeneralAntilles> Be cool if some of the N-Gage development could come over to the ITs.
Jul 11 23:30:35 <GeneralAntilles> Though it's completely out of the roadmap.
Jul 11 23:30:39 <KaylaKaze> y?
Jul 11 23:30:57 <KaylaKaze> (would it be cool, that is)
Jul 11 23:31:25 <alterego> I'd like a good RTS.
Jul 11 23:31:33 <cesman> GeneralAntilles: the n800 would be nice for games, but the layout of the input keys aren't that great
Jul 11 23:31:42 <KaylaKaze> yuck to rts
Jul 11 23:31:53 <fdsd> Anyone want to trade their n800 for my nokia 770 and an ipod nano?
Jul 11 23:31:54 <alterego> I'm getting old :P
Jul 11 23:31:57 <GeneralAntilles> If they would just clone the keys on the left and put a set on the right side it'd be perfect.
Jul 11 23:32:03 <GeneralAntilles> fdsd: no.
Jul 11 23:32:07 <fdsd> dang
Jul 11 23:32:08 <KaylaKaze> The 770, hardware wise, is only a little less powerful than my laptop
Jul 11 23:32:09 <alterego> Hah .. No .. ^_^
Jul 11 23:32:12 <GeneralAntilles> It would be perfect for RTS
Jul 11 23:32:21 <KaylaKaze> and my laptop can play starcraft and fallout and stuff
Jul 11 23:32:40 <fdsd> I can't glue my nokia 770 and my ipod nano and my cell phone together to make an iphone..
Jul 11 23:33:01 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Jul 11 23:33:14 <GeneralAntilles> Just fab yourself a giant iPhone case and stick them in there.
Jul 11 23:33:18 * cesman thinks the iphone, while nice is less superior than a n800
Jul 11 23:33:19 <KaylaKaze> I should see about how difficult it'd be to run Dosbox on maemo
Jul 11 23:33:24 * GeneralAntilles agrees.
Jul 11 23:33:29 <Juhaz> of course not. glue is for amateurs, you have to use duct tape to make magic happen
Jul 11 23:33:34 <GeneralAntilles> I love the interface on the iPhone
Jul 11 23:33:36 <GeneralAntilles> It's magical
Jul 11 23:33:59 <GeneralAntilles> But without the screenrez of the N800 and without any of the tasty unixy parts of OS X it's just not worth it.
Jul 11 23:34:02 * GeneralAntilles is a Mac user.
Jul 11 23:34:03 <cesman> for Walt Mossberg to call it a mini computer is misleading as Apple doesn't provide a full SDK
Jul 11 23:34:21 <GeneralAntilles> I can't imagine them holding that position for much longer.
Jul 11 23:34:58 <GeneralAntilles> Mac developers are some of the best interface designers out there.
Jul 11 23:35:03 <GeneralAntilles> They would thrive on the iPhone.
Jul 11 23:35:06 <cesman> It will certainly make the next round of portable devices more interesting
Jul 11 23:35:13 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Jul 11 23:35:23 <GeneralAntilles> I think that's where the impact of the iPhone really comes into play.
Jul 11 23:35:31 <GeneralAntilles> To everybody who hasn't used the iPhone, try it.
Jul 11 23:35:34 <cesman> Nokia has something really great w/ the n770 and 800
Jul 11 23:35:39 <GeneralAntilles> It's going to change the entire cellphone paradigm.
Jul 11 23:35:46 <GeneralAntilles> The same way the iPod changed MP3 players.
Jul 11 23:35:49 <fdsd> GeneralAntilles, they will come out with an SDK...
Jul 11 23:36:00 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully it's sooner rather than later.
Jul 11 23:36:16 <fdsd> yeah web 2.0 apps are kinda lame
Jul 11 23:37:02 <fdsd> but its amazing how one device can make so many companies taylor to one device
Jul 11 23:38:12 <GeneralAntilles> Text rendering in Safari on there is abysmally slow.
Jul 11 23:38:33 <fdsd> I thought it was amazingly fast
Jul 11 23:39:25 <GeneralAntilles> Perhaps it was just the sites I was browsing
Jul 11 23:39:34 <GeneralAntilles> Lots of Web-2.0 stuff. ;)
Jul 11 23:39:41 <fdsd> it feels like google maps when your resizing
Jul 11 23:39:57 <GeneralAntilles> I'd really like to see Nokia go in the direction that Apple is interface wise.
Jul 11 23:40:07 <fdsd> yeah me too
Jul 11 23:40:55 <GeneralAntilles> Still though, I love me my N800.
Jul 11 23:41:10 <GeneralAntilles> Greatest consumer electronics investment I've ever made.
Jul 11 23:41:34 <fdsd> its nice
Jul 11 23:41:46 <fdsd> I just wish I could merge the iphone and the nokia n800 together
Jul 11 23:42:25 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Jul 11 23:43:00 <GeneralAntilles> I'm kinda disturbed that application development has kinda ground to a halt on the Maemo platform, though.
Jul 11 23:43:01 <cesman> all you need is a cell w/ bluetooth DUN
Jul 11 23:44:32 <fdsd> yeah.. I like what apple is working on, sharing the edge over wifi, internet sharing is very useful
Jul 11 23:45:23 <GeneralAntilles> If I could pull up a bash terminal on the iPhone I'd be all over that.
Jul 11 23:45:47 <fdsd> GeneralAntilles, I will give it 3 months before we see that from hackers
Jul 11 23:48:11 <fdsd> I think its cool that the hackers so far have figured out how to boot the device into single user mode, and they found hidden applications that are not on the menu bar like Dictionary and a network interface.
Jul 11 23:48:33 <GeneralAntilles> Dictionary would be awesome
Jul 11 23:48:42 <GeneralAntilles> I don't get why every mobile device doesn't come bundled with a dictionary.
Jul 11 23:50:03 <fdsd> apple should come out with a terminal type app for download
Jul 11 23:50:10 <fdsd> sandbox the hell out of it
Jul 11 23:51:08 <alterego> If they did that they know it would only be a matter of time before the whole OS was cracked and people started writing apps for it.
Jul 11 23:52:23 <fdsd> true
Jul 11 23:52:31 <fdsd> ssh access app would be nice
Jul 11 23:52:42 <fdsd> being able to ssh to my machines
Jul 11 23:53:05 <fdsd> maybe a web 2.0 app can do that..
Jul 11 23:53:52 <derf> There's absolutely ssh-on-a-webpage.
Jul 11 23:54:01 <derf> If you trust it enough to type your password into it.
Jul 11 23:55:24 <pupnik> fdsd: the MDA phone is a clamshell like that.  so is the sharp zaurus
Jul 11 23:58:07 <dick-richardson> that intel internet tablet looks interesting
Jul 12 00:00:21 <pupnik> fugly too
Jul 12 00:09:37 <edt> looks like garage.maemo.org has coded its debs as application/x-archive
Jul 12 00:09:50 <edt> the installer does not know what to do with this
Jul 12 00:10:12 <edt> you can fix it by editing two files and running some update scripts
Jul 12 00:14:30 <edt> update the appliction's file in /usr/share/applications/hildon
Jul 12 00:14:44 <edt> run: update-desktop-database
Jul 12 00:15:03 <edt> update the application's file in: /usr/share/mime/packages
Jul 12 00:15:15 <edt> run: update-mime-database /usr/share/mime
Jul 12 00:15:25 <pupnik> edt amazing!
Jul 12 00:15:39 <edt> and it will find use the installer for application/x-archive
Jul 12 00:15:43 <pupnik> wait edt, i think those are mistakes made by individual packagers
Jul 12 00:15:52 <edt> not sure
Jul 12 00:15:55 <pupnik> there is no central authority packaging debs on garage
Jul 12 00:16:26 <edt> all I have checked today so x-archive including mapper which I (re)installed yesterday
Jul 12 00:17:02 <edt> its the mime type supplied by garage on the download page(s)
Jul 12 00:17:18 <edt> so I do think its garage that may well be at fault
Jul 12 00:21:00 <edt> s/so/say/ three lines back
Jul 12 00:21:57 <edt> nite
Jul 12 00:34:22 <dick-richardson> anyone have a good maemo mapper url?
Jul 12 00:38:47 <pupnik> !google test
Jul 12 00:38:51 <pupnik> hrm
Jul 12 00:41:06 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody been able to get 3rd party themes to work on the new firmware?
Jul 12 01:01:33 <unique311> not able to install kontorris nouvo theme
Jul 12 01:01:43 <unique311> sucks only theme i really like
Jul 12 01:02:09 <unique311> nuvoblack
Jul 12 01:06:42 <TimRiker> Is this a known issue atm? Failed to fetch http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/pool/main/libg/libgpg-error/libgpg-error0_1.0-1mh1_armel.deb  302 Moved [IP: 193.64.31.15 80]
Jul 12 01:07:10 <TimRiker> seems to happen for all http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/pool packages.
Jul 12 01:07:44 <TimRiker> I can wget them on another host, then scp, then install. but the package manager and apt-get both fail to install them.
Jul 12 01:08:41 * TimRiker notes the topic re logs... logs are also at...
Jul 12 01:08:44 <TimRiker> ~logs
Jul 12 01:08:46 <infobot> from memory, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz
Jul 12 01:10:30 <TimRiker> so that's http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/ if anyone cares. :)
Jul 12 02:09:32 <||cw> anyone know who's selling new 770's in AU?
Jul 12 02:10:01 <GeneralAntilles> buy.com ship internationally?
Jul 12 02:12:34 <||cw> asking for a friend, first he says they don't, then he says shipping would cost 70AUD so i don't know
Jul 12 02:15:50 <GeneralAntilles> Ouch
Jul 12 02:15:56 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe ebay.au?
Jul 12 02:16:12 <GeneralAntilles> Really, though, he should just get an N800.
Jul 12 02:24:17 <pupnik_> no sales in AU sadly
Jul 12 02:27:19 <rwhitby> I had to go to London to get mine.
Jul 12 02:27:28 <rwhitby> Couldn't even get it in HK airport.
Jul 12 02:27:40 <rwhitby> ||cw: (I'm in Adelaide)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 12 02:39:01 2007
Jul 12 02:41:13 <unique311> wtf, happen to java for the n800/770
Jul 12 02:41:39 <unique311> all this hype over the new firmware just for skype.
Jul 12 02:44:03 <unique311> i would' ve been happier with java nokia...thanks for a second voip software.
Jul 12 02:55:11 <pupnik_> unique311: weren't some people working on java for n800?
Jul 12 02:55:29 <unique311> yes
Jul 12 02:55:46 <unique311> the guys at java...
Jul 12 02:56:03 <unique311> and some other dudes working on jalimo
Jul 12 02:57:35 <unique311> the new firmware to me in a way was hyped for skype.....
Jul 12 02:58:17 <unique311> when other stuff should have  been.
Jul 12 02:58:45 <unique311> happy with skype...but yet i cannot use my bluetooth headset with it.
Jul 12 02:59:47 <unique311> i think the touchscreen fix is the best thing about the new firmware..
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 12 02:59:57 2007