**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 25 02:59:57 2007 Jul 25 03:00:35 what is links2? Jul 25 03:00:35 <_Monkey> it has been said that links2 is awesome. Jul 25 03:00:53 hehe Jul 25 03:00:59 nice Jul 25 03:01:08 _Monkey forget links2 Jul 25 03:01:08 <_Monkey> pupnik: I forgot links2 Jul 25 03:01:37 _Monkey links2 is a lightweight graphical web browser (non-hildon) http://pupnik.de/links2.html Jul 25 03:01:37 <_Monkey> OK, pupnik. Jul 25 03:03:28 what is kagu? Jul 25 03:03:28 <_Monkey> kagu is a complete rewrite of ukmp with a strong focus on object oriented design and a2dp support. You can find it here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu Jul 25 03:19:04 neeeeaaarwwooow BOOM! crash... Jul 25 03:21:52 k, night Jul 25 03:22:57 cu disq Jul 25 03:28:55 argh Jul 25 03:29:13 even the glib2 version in bora is *ancient* Jul 25 03:34:41 They're only 6 releases behind. Jul 25 03:36:15 I mean, really, what's 3 years among friends? Jul 25 03:37:27 guys,how do i increase my internal memory? not including sd cards...for n800 Jul 25 03:40:17 funny links2 is allready compile by sombody else Jul 25 03:45:31 waz up agogo Jul 25 03:46:43 I get GPG errors (BADSIG) when I try to update my N800. I just got my N800 and I didn't add any repositories. Is there something wrong with the repositories? Jul 25 03:48:42 is there a port of vent available for the 770? because that would just be awesome Jul 25 03:50:21 vent? Jul 25 03:50:36 Fick I just change my hostname in my tablet and everything went to shit Jul 25 03:50:48 fuck* Jul 25 03:50:58 ventrillio? Jul 25 03:52:22 waz up with my n800 Jul 25 03:52:28 is acting stupid Jul 25 03:52:43 yeah, ventrilo Jul 25 03:53:16 nope no port as of yet Jul 25 03:53:38 Yeah, don't change the hostname. Jul 25 03:53:54 man, someone should get to work on that Jul 25 03:54:00 I bricked the thing 3 or 4 times before I convinced myself that really wasn't a good idea. Jul 25 03:54:53 SeRi: got a link to it? Jul 25 03:55:04 to what? Jul 25 03:55:08 links2 Jul 25 03:55:31 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=62745#post62745 Jul 25 03:56:13 yeah penguinbait's links to it were dead Jul 25 03:56:28 well those are alive Jul 25 03:56:54 fuck and I dont remember my hostname Jul 25 03:57:10 now this sucks big donkey ass balls! Jul 25 03:58:38 well ill be damn I remember Jul 25 03:58:48 Mhhh I think I know why we can not change the host name Jul 25 03:58:54 woot xkbd! Jul 25 03:58:57 Nice! I have a project Jul 25 03:59:12 Yeap is also in ITT Jul 25 03:59:17 some body has a script for it Jul 25 04:02:26 wow I think I did hose my N800 Jul 25 04:04:08 wow 856 posts SeRi :) Jul 25 04:11:31 TYea :) Jul 25 04:11:34 Yea* Jul 25 04:11:45 :) Jul 25 04:14:19 greets zodttd Jul 25 04:14:33 hi :) Jul 25 04:15:05 SeRi: do you see how to add that on/off XKBD with load-applet-run? Jul 25 04:15:54 I finally get some games running really well with psx4gp2x, and now I'm starting to lose support from gp32x it seems. Today build got a lot of complaints, yet Abe's Oddysee is running so well. :( Jul 25 04:16:20 (plus just about everything else, I changed the image handler for ISO type support) Jul 25 04:16:34 Yes Jul 25 04:17:10 Is a script you need load applet run only works for N770 Jul 25 04:17:15 * pupnik has an original oddworld psx cd - never played Jul 25 04:17:33 Heh I have it somewhere too, all dirty and covered with dust :P Jul 25 04:18:11 SeRi: on it2007he installing load-appliet run generates conflict "trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/hildon-status-bar/libload.so', which is also in package load-applet" Jul 25 04:19:28 I know they havent port it the bastard to OS2007 :) Jul 25 04:20:09 zodttd: so i just dd the cdrom to .iso and play that? Jul 25 04:20:56 SeRi: the xkbd runs on top of sdl fullscreen which is very useful Jul 25 04:21:20 yeap Jul 25 04:22:34 pupnik: It used to be just add an .iso. But since iso formats can differ, I switched to RAW .bin format and people are confused :P Jul 25 04:23:14 They basically just need to convert the .iso to .bin with IsoBuster and it will work, but lots of people have bad images or are just plain confused. :( Jul 25 04:23:40 ok i get it Jul 25 04:25:15 SeRi: i'd be nice if that xkbd could be minimized to a small square at the edge of screen Jul 25 04:25:49 ahhhh hildonized Jul 25 04:25:55 or if you could toggle it with a selection in the home button menu Jul 25 04:26:06 no it wouldn't need to be hildonized Jul 25 04:26:19 just make a 'minimize' button to the right of the ctrl button Jul 25 04:26:36 and when you click on the minized window it goes to fullsize Jul 25 04:27:22 interesting Jul 25 04:27:32 you should post it in the actual thread Jul 25 04:30:10 ij Jul 25 04:30:10 ok Jul 25 04:30:11 I had a question about creating fat32 partitions on an MMC card for my 770 Jul 25 04:30:24 does anyone know the partition type to pass to sfdisk? Jul 25 04:30:56 "mount" tells me /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat Jul 25 04:31:17 yeap is vfat but to fdisk you do Jul 25 04:32:12 sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 Jul 25 04:32:25 ,1500,6 Jul 25 04:32:28 ,,L Jul 25 04:32:30 ,, Jul 25 04:32:31 ,, Jul 25 04:32:44 1500 is the size Jul 25 04:32:48 in MB Jul 25 04:33:19 yeah, I know I can make it vfat (type 6) but I want to make it fat32, because of the cluster size thing Jul 25 04:33:26 6 is for vfat Jul 25 04:33:39 are you going to dual boot? Jul 25 04:34:05 was hoping to boot from a 2nd partition (ext2) Jul 25 04:35:01 well Jul 25 04:35:02 i wanted to make it fat32 because I plan on having a bunch of map tiles, each of which is a small file. Jul 25 04:35:55 and with vfat, the cluster size is 4K i think... Jul 25 04:36:04 (on a 1.5GB partition) Jul 25 04:37:43 give me a sec wife Jul 25 04:40:09 np. Jul 25 04:41:24 Yeah man, specifying the '-uM' option is awesome. Much easier to work in MiB than cylinders. Also makes the lines shorter and not wrap on the 770 display. Jul 25 04:44:49 yeap.... sorry wife is talking to me.... Jul 25 04:53:13 ok back... Jul 25 04:53:29 no worries. After some research, I'm not sure i'm going to bother. Jul 25 04:53:56 I thought there might be some benefits of Fat32, but I think those were incorrect assumptions Jul 25 04:55:27 any ways in fat32 you use 32 Jul 25 04:55:34 for the partition type? Jul 25 04:55:37 I was going to ask you if you wjee sure Jul 25 04:55:42 where Jul 25 04:55:55 it actually kills your cards life span Jul 25 04:56:12 why? Jul 25 04:57:35 And from my searching, the type I came up with was '0b' Jul 25 04:57:41 to what I understands the reads and writes are more intensive... are sd cards life cicles are determin on how many r/w Jul 25 04:58:23 well could be I never got in to it to be 100% sure Jul 25 04:58:38 again thats not my area of expertise that would be penguinbait Jul 25 05:01:23 would anybody know for sure if the mediaplayer inthe new n800 firmware supports multibyte chars? Jul 25 05:03:57 cool. No worries. Thanks for your help. sfdisk is definitely easier (especially to document) with -uM Jul 25 06:35:59 I read on a newspaper that a 770 appears in Die Hard 4.0, does anyone know of this? Jul 25 06:40:35 inz: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7050 Jul 25 07:28:25 Reed Richards uses a N770 in silver surfer Jul 25 07:28:25 yeah, i have a printed picture of that outside my office Jul 25 07:28:25 still need to see the movie Jul 25 07:28:26 fwiw, it's the Nokia 770. Nokia marketting droids added the n for the N800 Jul 25 07:28:26 bah so what Jul 25 07:28:26 it's still not as cool or know as their other N series Jul 25 07:28:26 known Jul 25 07:41:08 konttori: whoa Jul 25 07:41:17 morning Jul 25 07:41:29 tigert: Good to see you again. Jul 25 07:41:34 yeah Jul 25 07:41:39 still on vacation for 2 weeks Jul 25 07:41:46 ahh... good for you! Jul 25 07:41:49 yeah Jul 25 07:41:53 was in guadec meanwhile Jul 25 07:42:02 planning of doing any flying while on vacation? Jul 25 07:42:06 installing ukmp :) Jul 25 07:42:10 konttori: perhaps. want to come along? Jul 25 07:42:33 weather permitting of course Jul 25 07:42:43 Sounds great! Would be honored. Jul 25 07:42:50 wtf is _Monkey? Jul 25 07:43:06 I dont like these automatic privmsg's if I say "weather" Jul 25 07:43:16 Morning all Jul 25 07:43:20 morn Jul 25 07:43:25 weather EFHF Jul 25 07:43:38 ih, anyone have a nokia n800 patched with the last firmware and have a ver very instability connection with FON ap ? Jul 25 07:43:57 pello: is the ap far? Jul 25 07:44:06 50cm Jul 25 07:44:24 go a bit farther? Jul 25 07:44:35 it works really good before the firmware upgrade Jul 25 07:46:09 it doesn't works better Jul 25 07:46:16 gtalk can't sync Jul 25 07:46:59 do other access points work ok? Jul 25 07:47:19 * tigert wonders if fon uses some specific auth scheme that causes problems? Jul 25 07:47:34 file a bug in any case? Jul 25 07:48:46 hah don't worry it finally works Jul 25 07:48:55 * pello waked up ten minutes ago Jul 25 07:49:00 tigert: We were talking yesterday with Roope about the kinetic scrolling and he was telling that you and him have been pushing it for the device (and browser) for some time now. Jul 25 07:49:00 * pello slaps himself Jul 25 07:49:04 pello: :) Jul 25 07:49:09 what was the problem? Jul 25 07:49:19 I hope you will get it to be implemented to the browser asap Jul 25 07:49:33 i forgot that i was connected on the public ssid Jul 25 07:49:41 konttori: yeah, it makes a lot of sense. of course there is an issue with how the interaction currently works with lists Jul 25 07:49:46 pello: :) Jul 25 07:49:48 and have forget to authenticate me on fon portal Jul 25 07:50:06 konttori: particularly it becomes very complex with multiple selections etc Jul 25 07:50:21 tigert: Well, how about just put the list selection as modal if user clicks on a list Jul 25 07:50:31 konttori: ie, lots of timing tuneups etc to make it work sensibly Jul 25 07:50:48 konttori: what do you mean? Jul 25 07:51:43 kontorri: i'm confused Jul 25 07:51:50 put the select list widget to force scroll lock on, put the select list to go to the roughly the middle of the screen and only allow the user to escape by clicking outside the select box or by selecting an item Jul 25 07:51:51 the browser is open sources Jul 25 07:51:54 s/s$/d/ Jul 25 07:52:13 but engineering effort is most certainly not assigned to whatever whims externals have Jul 25 07:52:23 mostly it's constrained to performance Jul 25 07:52:32 how can you expect anything to happen ASAP Jul 25 07:52:33 timeless: your attitude helps little, please Jul 25 07:52:37 we try to fix things inside too Jul 25 07:52:40 and how can talking to roope (a ui designer) have any influence? Jul 25 07:52:42 lets not get into this now Jul 25 07:53:57 * timelyx shrugs Jul 25 07:54:12 it's bad enough having actual managers making unreasonable demands Jul 25 07:54:21 and we have more than enough of them Jul 25 07:55:04 konttori: have you played with firefox/seamonkey's autoscroll? Jul 25 07:55:15 would its scrolling behavior be relatively sufficient for your needs? Jul 25 07:55:30 if so, adapting that to the browser would be considerably easier than trying to implement something else Jul 25 07:55:39 and it's probably something you yourself could do Jul 25 07:55:58 xan had something implemented in the gtk scroll widget Jul 25 07:56:02 it worked reasonably well too Jul 25 07:56:14 interesting Jul 25 07:56:23 but the problem is to make it work really well and nicely on all cases Jul 25 07:56:27 too bad the code isn't sharable :) Jul 25 07:56:33 it might well be Jul 25 07:56:38 btw, what do you guys expect to have happen for google maps? Jul 25 07:56:42 timelyx: never. Is it good? Jul 25 07:56:44 dunno where it is, but it was not finished and polished anyway Jul 25 07:56:44 or google spreadsheets? Jul 25 07:56:48 konttori: please play with it Jul 25 07:56:57 where can I test it out? Jul 25 07:57:03 tigert: gtk code isn't sharable to a gecko renderer Jul 25 07:57:12 what I want to avoid is cases like the mozilla browser, with nice stuff, but a LOT of small interaction issues here and there Jul 25 07:57:18 konttori: it's mostly just part of seamonkey, not really sure how it works in firefox Jul 25 07:57:23 just trigger middle mouse Jul 25 07:57:29 things need to be polished and consistent Jul 25 07:57:37 * timelyx nods Jul 25 07:57:54 personally i don't want to spend time implementing any *more* things that break google web apps Jul 25 07:58:03 and i don't want to be more inconsistent with the rest of the maemo platform Jul 25 07:58:07 we already have both of those Jul 25 07:58:15 (even from before gecko) Jul 25 07:58:27 i think you're basically saying you don't like panning Jul 25 07:58:34 which is good, because i don't like it either Jul 25 07:58:46 however, i suspect your replacement breaks google maps and friends at least as badly Jul 25 07:58:48 no no Jul 25 07:58:50 which doesn't help me Jul 25 07:58:52 I like panning Jul 25 07:59:02 ypu = konttori Jul 25 07:59:06 ah :) Jul 25 07:59:24 anyway, somewhere i have a doc that lists all the input modes for browsers Jul 25 07:59:27 it's something like 10 Jul 25 08:00:47 http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhmd4jxt_43htq827 Jul 25 08:00:56 ignore the picture at the bottom, i use google docs as a pastebin :) Jul 25 08:01:40 Has anyone here used pidgin with a yahoo japan account? Jul 25 08:01:42 I like panning as well, but I would love it to be accelerated based on speed of movement of the finger. And kinetic scrolling does that quite well. Jul 25 08:01:43 the problem is that each different feature from either a desktop browser or a previous internet tablet becomes something users expect to be able to use Jul 25 08:02:21 konttori: do you have a problem with speed based on tapping on a scrollbar and how far you are from the thumb? Jul 25 08:02:55 anything that involves touching the content area of a web browser is a disaster Jul 25 08:03:03 timelyx: yeah, that is what I mean with the complexity Jul 25 08:03:04 and i really really don't need more of them Jul 25 08:03:25 it's bad enough that i have the 9 or so i've listed Jul 25 08:03:26 timelyx: and it is a disaster if things are not well thought out - which takes time and also effort from coders to get everything right Jul 25 08:03:34 tigert: yep Jul 25 08:03:36 "almost right" is not enough Jul 25 08:03:38 like all the flubs from 770 Jul 25 08:03:44 which takes lots of co-operated effort Jul 25 08:03:46 the password manager is another good example Jul 25 08:03:55 well, there are lots of good examples :) Jul 25 08:03:59 True enough. But as there is already the scrolling by dragging finger (panning), it would ge no worse by adding it to be kinetic. Jul 25 08:04:00 we managed to break opera's password manager ... Jul 25 08:04:09 konttori: um Jul 25 08:04:15 any change can be worse Jul 25 08:04:21 it's engineering time, and time to add new bugs Jul 25 08:04:23 its hard to say without testing Jul 25 08:04:25 and new interaction conflicts Jul 25 08:04:29 yeah Jul 25 08:04:33 and it's time lost from doing whatever else Jul 25 08:04:42 note: i'm not always opposed to adding features Jul 25 08:04:50 however, i have more than enough headaches at the moment Jul 25 08:05:11 and input modality, while something i want to fix, is not something i need more complexity in before i fix it Jul 25 08:05:26 You know, at the moment it scrolls only by the amount you pand with your finger. With kinetic it would scroll that much AND if speed given at the end of scroll, by the amount of speed versus drag (as in the opposing force) Jul 25 08:05:42 personally, i think panning was stupid Jul 25 08:05:52 and regret not having been able to squash the proposal before the 770 shipped Jul 25 08:05:57 but i didn't work for Nokia then Jul 25 08:06:13 it's stupid partly for the reasons you describe it as inferior Jul 25 08:06:28 partly because it wasn't implemented globally for the whole system (a tigert point i believe) Jul 25 08:06:40 I think that the most convenient way of scrolling is by using the dpad middle button for page down, but that's just me. Jul 25 08:06:40 and partly because it was guaranteed to eventually break web apps (my point) Jul 25 08:06:56 yeah, that's the biggest reason that panning made absolutely no sense Jul 25 08:07:03 timelyx: panning is awesome, but it should be everywhere Jul 25 08:07:10 and this makes other restrictions then Jul 25 08:07:19 its all a game of tradeoffs and which are most important Jul 25 08:07:22 "ooh, i can use my finger to scroll, even though there's a perfectly good arrow available" Jul 25 08:07:26 good morning Jul 25 08:07:32 like, do we really need multiple selection everywhere? Jul 25 08:07:35 what arrow? Jul 25 08:07:38 timelyx: the arrow sucks Jul 25 08:07:46 konttori: the "dpad", hardware keys Jul 25 08:08:01 timelyx: I use panning all the time Jul 25 08:08:02 ahh... but then dpad should be configured for page up page down events. Jul 25 08:08:16 its hard to say what is important unless you test with a small sample of users and see what really works Jul 25 08:08:17 tigert: do we have pressure sensing for the hardware arrows? Jul 25 08:08:17 currently it's so slow to use that there's no point in using it Jul 25 08:08:25 i know we have something for home/escape Jul 25 08:08:33 timelyx: pressure sensing? Jul 25 08:08:38 konttori: i suspect we could get pagedown for "long press" Jul 25 08:09:00 not quite sure it'd do the right thing, it'd definitely have to be tuned Jul 25 08:09:08 but then it would easily scroll too much. Jul 25 08:09:17 its all about finding a sensible set, that works for 90% of cases Jul 25 08:09:21 tuning it correctly Jul 25 08:09:26 indeed. Jul 25 08:09:33 and sorry, forgetting about the 10% that would be another 100% of more work Jul 25 08:10:00 5% would be 100% more work, the last 5% will be another 200% at least Jul 25 08:10:15 since complexity = more code = more bugs to fix = harder interactions and just more complex experience Jul 25 08:10:32 but lets see Jul 25 08:10:39 konttori: personally, i'd rather implement something like the n95 Jul 25 08:10:40 I am on vacation still :) Jul 25 08:10:48 where you got a popup small preview of the document Jul 25 08:10:52 and you can drag around that Jul 25 08:11:01 are you familiar w/ googlemap's small map insert? Jul 25 08:11:33 iirc it's hidden on the n800 by default Jul 25 08:11:38 anyway, try it on a desktop Jul 25 08:11:45 Two finger scrolling? Jul 25 08:12:06 timelyx: That is only a suplementary scrolling method. You would need normal panning / scrolling anyway Jul 25 08:12:06 it lets you drag around the section of the whole that you want to see Jul 25 08:12:25 bokubob: n800 doesn't detect two fingers. Jul 25 08:12:28 konttori: i can't afford anything that interacts with interacting with the full web screen Jul 25 08:12:52 Ok, thanks. Jul 25 08:12:54 how about letting the panning happen only when the dpad middle is pressed? Jul 25 08:13:09 or would that be too difficult for people? Jul 25 08:13:19 i'd love too, but the button is used to open the fkb, select items, focus items, and trigger links Jul 25 08:13:34 i blame nokia for not at least having as few buttons as the gameboy Jul 25 08:13:45 a,b,select,start. hello 1988 Jul 25 08:14:36 i think probably it'd be triggered by a long press on one of the other directional arrows Jul 25 08:14:47 (especially if i can kill spatial navigation) Jul 25 08:15:19 probably it'll be something like triggers an overview Jul 25 08:15:27 triggers a focus Jul 25 08:15:35 unfocuses Jul 25 08:15:54 konttori: several approaches probably would work Jul 25 08:15:58 I fail to see the point of an overview in a device with 800x480 screen Jul 25 08:16:06 but that's just me Jul 25 08:16:10 konttori: ever use planets Jul 25 08:16:11 but its a matter of testing and also trying to find one that people find Jul 25 08:16:17 well, planets small enough *not* to crash the browser... Jul 25 08:16:35 timelyx: overview is not really needed if scrolling works nicely Jul 25 08:16:41 damn Jul 25 08:16:50 now the mozilla is crashing all the time on my n800 Jul 25 08:17:00 I think its the fricken youtube videos :) Jul 25 08:17:01 http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/intro-linux.html Jul 25 08:17:06 since it also crashes on urho's blog page directly Jul 25 08:17:29 tigert: can you make that page work well? Jul 25 08:17:47 timelyx: well. that page is a lot of scrolling also on desktop Jul 25 08:17:57 Just disable the flash plugin ;) Jul 25 08:18:09 Hey, did you guys have a look at how archos handles flash movies? Jul 25 08:18:25 tigert: yes, i know Jul 25 08:18:45 the point is that (or something kinda smaller) is the problem for overview Jul 25 08:19:05 find the picture which has arrows that are not contained inside the lines Jul 25 08:19:28 or better, find the hamster wheel Jul 25 08:20:23 konttori: when you use acceleration, or constant scrolling Jul 25 08:20:27 what are you actually doing? Jul 25 08:20:29 reading? Jul 25 08:20:44 and how fast can you read? and does it depend on the kind of content? Jul 25 08:21:16 from my perspective, the biggest problem the browser has is that people had problems, and came up with ideas, but they didn't explain the problem they were trying to solve Jul 25 08:21:30 which makes it very hard to offer an alternate solution Jul 25 08:21:34 No, accelerated scrolling is only a means of moving large portion of the page on one go. Jul 25 08:21:48 ok, so clearly, for that problem, it'd be fine to use an overview Jul 25 08:21:48 Like move to the top of the page after reading the article. Jul 25 08:22:19 * timelyx waits Jul 25 08:22:31 well, overview moves you completely away from the page. And it needs the whole page to be rendered completely. Jul 25 08:22:39 um Jul 25 08:22:44 gecko has to render the whole page anyway Jul 25 08:22:48 ahh... Jul 25 08:22:51 and i don't know whatyou mean by away Jul 25 08:23:06 timelyx: yeah, this "we want this ui, and here's why" is what needs to improve Jul 25 08:23:06 gecko is fully capable of painting it w/ alpha over the content you see Jul 25 08:23:16 timelyx: but it also needs co-operation from you guys Jul 25 08:23:25 tigert: i'll pay people to explain their reasons Jul 25 08:23:36 it is very important Jul 25 08:23:43 but it is also very important to listen when someone does Jul 25 08:23:43 <_Monkey> okay, tigert. Jul 25 08:23:52 konttori: got a paypal account? i'll give you 1usd from tomorrow's birthday money as a reward for explaining why you wanted acceleration Jul 25 08:23:54 so it doesnt end up as insane bicycle shed issue Jul 25 08:24:07 someday someone will have to explain bike shed to me Jul 25 08:24:14 _Monkey: can you make the privmsgs optional? Jul 25 08:24:15 <_Monkey> tigert: i don't know Jul 25 08:24:21 sigh Jul 25 08:24:22 _Monkey: help Jul 25 08:24:45 why do we have a bot here anyway? Jul 25 08:24:52 to annoy us? :) Jul 25 08:25:18 timelyx: Acceleration is a nice way of navigating around the content of the page. really hate the fat that I have to keep pushing the pan again and again when I try to move to the top of the page or to the interesting part of an article. Jul 25 08:25:40 I'm not saying that it's the only way, it just happens to be a very cool looking way of approaching the problem Jul 25 08:26:16 timelyx: its also, just like coding more takes time, explaining does that also Jul 25 08:26:17 Acceleration is a minor modification the current panning that improves the functionality of the current pan. Jul 25 08:26:21 konttori: tigert / my point here is that it's important that everyone know what the underlying problem is Jul 25 08:26:30 so its not something people have the time to do a lot Jul 25 08:26:42 but I agree sharing the knowledge is important Jul 25 08:26:57 konttori: here, my premise is that i want to remove panning Jul 25 08:27:03 it breaks more and more sites Jul 25 08:27:11 consider docs.google.com Jul 25 08:27:27 90% of the page is both scrollable and dragable Jul 25 08:27:31 Yeah, and if that is the case with nokia, then it's just fine by me. But if panning is there, then it would benefit from kinetic. Jul 25 08:27:49 note: i'm almost never going to speak for nokia Jul 25 08:27:57 and it's fairly safe to assume i'll never speak for nokia here Jul 25 08:28:08 lets just say the issue is complex Jul 25 08:28:12 {standard-disclaimer-i-speak-for-myself-or-no-one} Jul 25 08:28:23 But if panning is removed, then the arrow keys need to be modified by default for page up / page down kind of behaviour. Jul 25 08:28:26 and ajax sites are just one part of this Jul 25 08:28:45 Or the scoll bar needs to take 3 times more width so that it would be usable by thumb as well. Jul 25 08:28:49 konttori: basically, given the fact that panning causes a lot of pain and is something i'd rather remove instead of improve, the last thing i want to do is modify its impl Jul 25 08:28:54 it also doesnt help that google documents is very cpu hog Jul 25 08:29:07 tigert: wfm on my 1.6ghz mac :) Jul 25 08:29:31 are you using a computer from 1997? :) Jul 25 08:29:38 oh, you probably are.. Jul 25 08:30:08 konttori: but yes, changing the scrollbar size seems to me to be something we should seriously consider Jul 25 08:30:22 although, from internal bits, i think they might change the scrollbar to be totally different Jul 25 08:30:24 one from 2006 with an ARM Jul 25 08:30:26 not sure Jul 25 08:30:31 yeah, but if you do that, then you need to drop off the left side navi bar completely. Jul 25 08:30:44 tigert: class equivalence of 1997 Jul 25 08:30:59 but it is slow even on my laptop Jul 25 08:30:59 Because when you do that, scroll bar will take about as much space as the left navi bar and there's like no space left for the app. Jul 25 08:30:59 given i had a p2/450 in 1998 Jul 25 08:31:20 and if you widen the scroll bar in one place, it'll have to be widened every other place as well. Jul 25 08:31:27 konttori: i take it you don't use browser full screen Jul 25 08:31:37 konttori: and that leads to a need to redesign a lot of applications Jul 25 08:31:41 I do, but that's not the only way to use it. Jul 25 08:31:44 i think it'd probably be more like only the active frame gets a scroller Jul 25 08:31:48 tigert: yeah. Jul 25 08:31:49 like, all the two-pane layouts are bye-bye then Jul 25 08:32:06 which then kicks schedules in the arse etc Jul 25 08:32:08 And as opposed to implement panning everywhene, you end up with freeing the space for the scroll bar altogether. Jul 25 08:32:14 its a fscking snowball Jul 25 08:32:20 and we all know it Jul 25 08:32:26 You might instead have a trasparent notificator of the location. Jul 25 08:32:29 tigert: don't forget the people who want portrait mode :) Jul 25 08:32:48 lets just say portrait mode is not exactly my top priority at this point :) Jul 25 08:32:52 konttori: scrolling an overview is something that could be implemented everywhere :) Jul 25 08:32:53 timelyx: indeed. And in that implementation the scrollbar would take even more space. Jul 25 08:33:05 I mean in the portrait mode. Jul 25 08:33:09 but this kind of rethinking takes a big effort Jul 25 08:33:19 timelyx: you must be kidding Jul 25 08:33:22 thanks for clarifying/qualifying Jul 25 08:33:34 konttori: why? Jul 25 08:33:41 if you have 10,000 emails Jul 25 08:33:46 or if you have 10,000 pictures Jul 25 08:33:54 would you really object to an overview for them? Jul 25 08:34:06 And in your 10 000 emails, how do you actually know where to scroll in that overview? Jul 25 08:34:19 in outlook, i jump by date region Jul 25 08:34:23 or header creature Jul 25 08:34:25 panning is much better in that kind of application.. Jul 25 08:34:35 whichever is the current grouper Jul 25 08:34:45 in pictures w/ picasa, it's the same Jul 25 08:34:56 panning fails miserably in both cases Jul 25 08:35:00 sounds like you are making quite a big change to all the apps in that manner of thinking. Jul 25 08:35:18 Hello. Jul 25 08:35:22 hi :) Jul 25 08:35:24 I'm not opposed to special cases, but for general lists, there needs to be a general scolling method. Jul 25 08:35:55 out of curiosity, how many photos, mp3s, and emails do you have? Jul 25 08:36:11 (general survey, roope is welcome to answer too) Jul 25 08:36:12 I have around 1000 mp3s, 2000 photos. Jul 25 08:36:18 No emails, as the email app doesn't work Jul 25 08:36:32 you're free to answer emails for things outside your device Jul 25 08:36:36 same for the others :) Jul 25 08:36:54 i have 0 emails in the device, but i certainly have more than 100 outside :) Jul 25 08:37:17 You are currently using 1112 MB (38%) of your 2880 MB. Jul 25 08:37:25 Inbox (563) Jul 25 08:37:29 (unread) :) Jul 25 08:37:30 You are currently using 2795 MB (97%) of your 2880 MB. Jul 25 08:37:34 in red text! Jul 25 08:37:35 darn Jul 25 08:37:40 * timelyx hates the red text Jul 25 08:38:14 that's the old/full mailbox Jul 25 08:38:17 Panning is great. Jul 25 08:38:21 the new one is using 19% Jul 25 08:38:22 (just reading the backlog :) Jul 25 08:38:23 :) Jul 25 08:38:38 the new one is say 4months old Jul 25 08:39:20 anyway, how do you organize (or not) your pictures? Jul 25 08:39:25 and how do you find anything in them? Jul 25 08:39:49 also, have you tried scrolling in outlook for windows? Jul 25 08:40:07 when you start scrolling by dragging the thumb, it shows you a hint about what you're zooming past Jul 25 08:40:14 same is done iirc in word and excel Jul 25 08:40:24 about 10000 mp3:s on my computer. couple thousand photos. Jul 25 08:40:49 it might show you the current pagenumber or section or date/month category Jul 25 08:41:00 or a row/col in excel i suppose Jul 25 08:41:04 * timelyx rarely uses excel Jul 25 08:41:14 All messages in the Trash have been deleted forever. Jul 25 08:41:17 You are currently using 2783 MB (96%) of your 2880 MB. Jul 25 08:41:21 that didn't really help much Jul 25 08:41:44 hehe Jul 25 08:42:21 * timelyx tries deleting spam Jul 25 08:43:13 konttori: ukmp could show a spinner animation or progressbar when scanning memory card Jul 25 08:43:16 now it looks like it is dead Jul 25 08:43:21 since it takes quite a while Jul 25 08:43:27 You are currently using 2782 MB (96%) of your 2880 MB. Jul 25 08:43:35 ok, spam really doesn't count for much Jul 25 08:44:09 You are currently using 576 MB (20%) of your 2880 MB. Jul 25 08:44:16 hrm, so much for only using 19% :( Jul 25 08:44:25 For finding music, I don't ever scroll through a list of 10000 songs. I filter them down and then select. Jul 25 08:44:50 roope: and photos? Jul 25 08:44:59 Metadata. Select a right date or folder. Jul 25 08:45:10 hrm, next, do any of you use ebooks/pdfs? if so, how many do you have Jul 25 08:45:12 and how short are they? Jul 25 08:45:25 * timelyx finds it hard to believe that scrolling is a problem for just browser Jul 25 08:45:51 roope: what's the worst filter down case you have for songs? Jul 25 08:45:55 tigert: true. I'll see to add something for the first go. Jul 25 08:46:02 Scrolling is a problem allover, but the current implementation of using these scrollbars is part of the problem. Jul 25 08:46:16 konttori: another thing is, I dunno if is supposed to do it already, Jul 25 08:46:21 Well, I type a couple of letters and then select the song. Or search the artist and then the song. Jul 25 08:46:25 but long press of "esc" key (back arrow) should quit apps Jul 25 08:46:33 and I know this is not well documented anywhere I guess Jul 25 08:46:45 or close windows, rather Jul 25 08:46:49 wow Jul 25 08:46:53 device rebooted Jul 25 08:46:54 damn, not my day, battery died while installing osso-xterm Jul 25 08:46:57 tigert: nice :) Jul 25 08:47:01 I'm using this Approcket app for windows, it's a bit like quicksilver. It's really easy to access nearly any song. Jul 25 08:47:04 tigert: I'll add the esc. Jul 25 08:47:09 Just type a couple first letters and it comes up in the list. Jul 25 08:47:13 It's been on my list for a while. Jul 25 08:47:17 roope: *nod* Jul 25 08:47:20 that's kinda what i expect Jul 25 08:47:36 I use itunes, which is just great. Jul 25 08:47:41 one way to do that is w/ a pan/scroll where as you go letter changes in item titles are shown Jul 25 08:47:49 so if you're now in the "rock"et section Jul 25 08:47:49 Deep hierarchies imho just suck. It's faster to search. Jul 25 08:47:51 it shows that Jul 25 08:47:55 Than to go through many levels. Jul 25 08:48:08 and when you end up in "rythm" and blues, you see that Jul 25 08:48:18 timelyx: Yeah, those things are ok. Even my ipod starts to do that. Jul 25 08:48:22 sure you could do a type search, but if people like pannig (or something like it) Jul 25 08:48:34 If I scroll fast enough, it starts just showing the initial letter of where I'm scrolling. Jul 25 08:48:39 right Jul 25 08:48:40 text input on the go is also harder Jul 25 08:48:51 that's what i'm thinking of when i talk about overview scrolling Jul 25 08:48:56 most good apps have such a model Jul 25 08:49:05 and people recognize it, even if they don't really remember it being there Jul 25 08:49:11 the browser doesn't have that Jul 25 08:49:14 the n95 browser does Jul 25 08:49:34 Yeah. Opera 4 mini for S60 is very nice. Jul 25 08:49:43 It goes overview - 100% view always. Jul 25 08:49:45 also the webkit one does that I think Jul 25 08:49:48 damn Jul 25 08:49:49 well, e.g. itunes only just shows the entire content of your lib in one list with scrollbar. Jul 25 08:49:54 now ukmp reboots my device Jul 25 08:49:59 I wonder what happens Jul 25 08:50:04 wah. gmail delivered a phishing attempt for paypal Jul 25 08:50:06 and that's the default behaviour of probably the most used mp3 app. Jul 25 08:50:08 I am scp'ing songs over, could be that too Jul 25 08:50:17 tigert: webkit = n95 Jul 25 08:50:22 tigert: try it in xterm Jul 25 08:50:29 use MediaCenter command. Jul 25 08:50:49 Opera 4 mini has really nice details that add up to the experience. For instance when going to the next web page it doesn't clear up the previous one before the next one loads. I really hate looking at the blank screen in the s60 browser for 5-10 seconds for every page. Jul 25 08:51:01 It feels a lot faster than the s60 one also. Jul 25 08:51:16 konttori: I'll copy the songs over first Jul 25 08:51:21 anyway, i really think implementing an overview is a lot more useful/important than most of the other options Jul 25 08:51:34 roope: will that run on my e61i? Jul 25 08:51:43 * timelyx needs to get it... Jul 25 08:51:55 timelyx: Yes. Just go to http://www.operamini.com/beta/ it's free for now. Jul 25 08:51:59 I have it on my e61. Jul 25 08:52:41 I still don't think that the overview and scroll/pan are somehow exclusionary things. You can have both. Jul 25 08:52:50 overview is a somewhat specific case for the browser. Jul 25 08:53:01 The scroll/pan is more of a general framework navigation style question. Jul 25 08:53:24 http://www.operamini.com/beta/demo/ Jul 25 08:54:38 roope: i'll grab it from work (after lunch) in 30mins i guess Jul 25 08:54:45 It's a shame s60 forces 3rd party apps to ask every time "is it all right for this application to connect to the internet". Jul 25 08:55:02 hm Jul 25 08:55:03 timelyx: it's about the best browser I've used with my s60 so far. Jul 25 08:55:08 does mplayer (and thus ukmp) play ogg? Jul 25 08:55:24 roope / tigert: what's the format for the FRHOC wifi pass? Jul 25 08:55:39 FRHOC? Jul 25 08:55:55 if you don't recognize that, you can't help :) Jul 25 08:56:00 mine has 13 numbers. Jul 25 08:56:02 yes Jul 25 08:56:10 it's a function of your birthday and your id Jul 25 08:56:25 but getting the sequence right is beyond my ability to remember Jul 25 08:56:27 roope: that would imo be a great thing if all browsers did that, show the page when fully loaded, I loatha seeing pages being built up image by image paragraph by paragraph etc :) Jul 25 08:56:38 loathe* Jul 25 08:56:44 i think it's something like day month decade id Jul 25 08:56:51 Well, I don't mind if the structure would remain stable. Jul 25 08:56:53 But of course it can't. Jul 25 08:57:05 wumpus: so... Jul 25 08:57:17 we have managers who complain that the browser looks unresponsive Jul 25 08:57:20 timelyx: looks like nokid id + 5 numbers of ddmmy Jul 25 08:57:21 if it doesn't paint /something/ Jul 25 08:57:30 roope: which order? Jul 25 08:57:36 in that order. id first. Jul 25 08:57:36 well, true, if it would show a rectangle of the size of the images, but empty it woul dbe oke... but I hate the page changing while loading Jul 25 08:57:40 ok, thanks Jul 25 08:57:46 oddly enough, some users have the same complaint Jul 25 08:57:49 I've always hated that in web browsing, compared to other interactive menus etc Jul 25 08:57:53 i.e. the managers aren't entirely out of their gourd Jul 25 08:58:09 The s60 browser is the worst. At first it shows the content, then it hides it, then it shows it again. Jul 25 08:58:14 wumpus: kinda stuck Jul 25 08:58:18 I wouldn't mind reading the text non-css-formatted. Jul 25 08:58:20 idd Jul 25 08:58:24 you don't know if the image will load until you've downloaded it Jul 25 08:58:28 it could be invalid at the last bite Jul 25 08:58:30 byte Jul 25 08:58:40 if it's invalid, you have to rotate to the fallback content Jul 25 08:58:42 and reflow Jul 25 08:58:52 no matter what /some/ operation *will* require changing layout Jul 25 08:58:56 no, you could just show the empty rectangle of the right size Jul 25 08:58:59 you can bet one way or the other Jul 25 08:59:03 with an 'invalid' icon Jul 25 08:59:06 sure, but if the image isn't valid Jul 25 08:59:13 then you must at that point change to the alternate text Jul 25 08:59:19 the placeholder goes away in standards mode Jul 25 08:59:24 it's a requirement of html Jul 25 08:59:24 but it could remain the same size Jul 25 08:59:27 no Jul 25 08:59:33 html spec doesn't allow that Jul 25 08:59:37 only quirks modes do Jul 25 08:59:49 sorry. i've been working on web browsers and quirks for many years Jul 25 08:59:54 and i love controversies Jul 25 08:59:56 I don't care about the html spec, it was just a gripe I've had with web browsing since the beginning Jul 25 08:59:59 and quirks, and such Jul 25 09:00:01 and I've been there since 1995 Jul 25 09:00:21 yeah, well... users, web authors, web browsers, and specifiers Jul 25 09:00:25 make 1 or maybe 2 happy Jul 25 09:00:27 pick Jul 25 09:00:39 or perhaps, try not to make more than 3 unhappy? Jul 25 09:00:44 gotta love FAT and memory cards Jul 25 09:00:48 [131204.512000] sdd: rw=0, want=3998720, limit=1999360 Jul 25 09:00:48 [131204.512000] attempt to access beyond end of device Jul 25 09:00:51 fsck Jul 25 09:01:15 $ Jul 25 09:01:26 did fsck really have nothing to say? :) Jul 25 09:01:46 * tigert wonders whats up with timeless and his two nicks Jul 25 09:01:50 timelyx: anyhow, all the reflows while loading are inefficient as well, especially on an embedded device Jul 25 09:02:00 tigert: i have 3 actually Jul 25 09:02:06 timelyx is my mac, it has scrollback Jul 25 09:02:11 timelE61i is well, my phone Jul 25 09:02:24 timeless is me in a screen session, reachable from anywhere, limited scrollback Jul 25 09:02:32 It'd be a nightmare f some day I opened a newspaper and it'd be reflowing while I read it :') Jul 25 09:02:43 wumpus: it's coming! Jul 25 09:02:47 digital ink is getting better Jul 25 09:02:51 hehe I suppose Jul 25 09:02:57 so are broken standards coming to paper too, yay Jul 25 09:03:00 however, most likely the cpus will not be as slow as the ones we have Jul 25 09:03:10 and probably they'll be smarter Jul 25 09:03:16 and only render when they're done Jul 25 09:03:22 let's pray for that :) Jul 25 09:03:39 you don't see advertisements on billboards that incrementally renders Jul 25 09:03:45 advertisers pay for quality Jul 25 09:04:14 it's especially annoying on sites with large amount of images.. each time you try to read some text, it jumps down, while the image snaps in place Jul 25 09:04:15 would you like a Coca Cola sponsored n800i with that? Jul 25 09:05:01 disclaimer: i know of nothing relating to partnership deals with anyone Jul 25 09:05:16 I'd like a pepsi one better but thank you :D Jul 25 09:05:38 well, thank pepsi if they offer it :) Jul 25 09:06:16 seriously, most likely for a thing like paper, the key will be whether someone manages to sponsor enough cpu power w/ decent battery Jul 25 09:06:23 though I'd wonder if they'd sponsor the devices or the sites/network Jul 25 09:06:41 the alternative is to not actually send unrendered content Jul 25 09:07:06 if you send pictures to the newspaper along w/ a hitmap rule for what goes to new locations Jul 25 09:07:11 then the paper doesn't have problems Jul 25 09:07:32 or an intermediate format, which exactly specifies the position and size of each text block and image Jul 25 09:07:34 it's only a problem if your digital paper lets you draw circles on it, fill in surveys, ... Jul 25 09:07:49 yeah... Jul 25 09:07:51 * tigert tries to get enough music on his device to see ukmp's panning :) Jul 25 09:08:01 the paper could accept pdfs as input :) Jul 25 09:08:10 in fact, most digital ink devices do that as a primary source Jul 25 09:08:17 browser support is always secondary from what i've seen Jul 25 09:08:26 pdfs are great format for that indeed Jul 25 09:08:38 it might replace html some day :) Jul 25 09:08:52 hrm Jul 25 09:09:04 do you enable js in your acrobat reader? Jul 25 09:09:20 tigert: easiest way is to make a e.g. party list of 100 songs in itunes and copy those to the device. Jul 25 09:09:22 it can have at least as many security bugs as a web browser Jul 25 09:09:30 konttori: yeah Jul 25 09:09:37 well your browser would effectively be acrobat reader, in that case, so it's no longer a heavy plugin Jul 25 09:09:39 I need more music :) Jul 25 09:09:42 heh Jul 25 09:09:58 need to "consult" roope after vacations I think Jul 25 09:10:17 hrm., konttori and roope specified how many songs they have Jul 25 09:10:21 tigert didn't Jul 25 09:10:24 me and marko could set up a nice mp*3 store somewhere Jul 25 09:10:52 tigert: ukmp uses the gstreamer, so once you have the ogg plugin, oggs will work. Jul 25 09:11:02 marius has some too but its a bit hm.. different taste :) Jul 25 09:11:03 arg Jul 25 09:11:11 konttori: where to get that? Jul 25 09:11:14 that reminds me, i need to deal w/ gstreamer Jul 25 09:11:15 actually Jul 25 09:11:21 konttori: how well do you know gstreamer? Jul 25 09:11:36 i'm looking for someone i could pay to write a wrapper or mapping to gstreamer Jul 25 09:11:43 (out of my own pocket) Jul 25 09:12:36 timelyx: I don't know it too well. Just enought to get by some annoying bugs. Jul 25 09:13:08 Ogg plugin is here: Jul 25 09:13:09 http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/ogg-support.install Jul 25 09:13:49 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=272132&action=view Jul 25 09:13:59 is the file i'm stuck trying to convert to gstreamer Jul 25 09:14:26 out of my league Jul 25 09:14:50 there are way too many repos Jul 25 09:16:12 indeed, way too many Jul 25 09:16:47 lets try Jul 25 09:17:03 up to the point that you wonder why they use repositories, if you have to add one for each package anyway :) Jul 25 09:17:30 heh Jul 25 09:17:35 the theoretical reason is upgrades Jul 25 09:17:46 in practice it's so that you can get version conflicts in the future :) Jul 25 09:19:48 I'll have to add tag parsing for ogg files soon. So many open source people (like tigert) seem to have oggs. Jul 25 09:20:17 current one just uses the folder name as album name. Jul 25 09:20:43 heh Jul 25 09:24:53 konttori: ah Jul 25 09:24:58 man, it crashed Jul 25 09:25:01 * tigert runs from terminal Jul 25 09:25:45 heh Jul 25 09:25:48 read-only fs Jul 25 09:25:52 fun with FAT Jul 25 09:26:01 but ukmp shouldnt crash on that :) Jul 25 09:28:10 :) Jul 25 09:29:16 * timelyx grumbles Jul 25 09:29:30 the next browser update would probably take a >1mb hit for certificate checks Jul 25 09:41:33 tigert: True. I'll have to add some code that will check the access level. Jul 25 09:41:54 timelyx: really? Jul 25 09:42:19 so, it will be checking the validity of the certificates and that code takes a meg? sweet. Jul 25 09:42:22 konttori: gcc sucks Jul 25 09:42:36 it's not anywhere near that simple Jul 25 09:42:49 ahh... well. I guess it never is ;) Jul 25 09:42:50 today the browser checks the validity chain for certs it has Jul 25 09:42:57 or rather in the browser you have Jul 25 09:43:11 ok, and in the future? Jul 25 09:43:16 the browser i could build today can download certificates it sees referenced but doesn't have Jul 25 09:43:24 from http, https, ldap Jul 25 09:43:36 your browser also assumes that a cert is only signed by one other cert Jul 25 09:43:48 ahh... is that the normal behaviour for firefox? Jul 25 09:44:02 but certificates can be signed by multiple certificates... Jul 25 09:44:22 konttori: i'm a gecko developer first, a maemo browser engineer because i'm paid to do it Jul 25 09:44:33 * konttori was just watching the opera mini 4 demo vid. Jul 25 09:44:55 nokia really needs to put good dpads to use that kind or scrolling around. Jul 25 09:44:55 note: windows Vista and to some extent windows XP (or rather IE and any app that uses the OS to do networking on those platforms) already does this stuff Jul 25 09:45:11 not going to happen :) Jul 25 09:45:18 have you seen the e61i thumb? Jul 25 09:45:20 it's awful Jul 25 09:45:27 and it's probably the future :) Jul 25 09:45:34 Nope. I did test it quickly though. Jul 25 09:45:35 really? Jul 25 09:45:47 well, my crystal ball is at least as foggy as yours Jul 25 09:45:51 Does it have force sensitivity? Jul 25 09:45:56 * timelyx chuckles Jul 25 09:46:03 but nokia tries very hard to reuse components Jul 25 09:46:27 I know. Still, even by modifying the dpad mold, it could be made better. Jul 25 09:46:28 i think an eraser head component would probably make more sense Jul 25 09:46:40 those have had pressure recognition for probably well over a decade Jul 25 09:46:47 you mean like they have on laptops? Jul 25 09:46:51 yes Jul 25 09:47:00 I think that could work pretty well. Jul 25 09:47:03 trackpoint i suppose might be a more technical term Jul 25 09:47:10 I was kind of thinking 61 had that Jul 25 09:47:39 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mobiletechreview.com/image/news/nokiae61i1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php%3FBoard%3Dnews%26Number%3D27922&h=350&w=305&sz=34&hl=en&start=2&sig2=OaT5zntW1m16IS_k8rvikg&um=1&tbnid=6BdpbSye9NpYLM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=105&ei=ORynRqO6N4LK0gSKxICVBg&prev=/images%3Fq%3De61i%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN Jul 25 09:49:09 that looks just as bad dpad as they have in n800. (only smaller) Jul 25 09:49:17 I hope I'm wrong Jul 25 09:50:17 Considering nintendo kind of perfected normal dpad in the early 80s with NES, nokia could have learned something of dpad design from that. Jul 25 09:51:24 well.. I guess they did. Ngage rockers were in both editions pretty good. Jul 25 09:51:37 i think it's actually worse Jul 25 09:51:45 the button area is bigger Jul 25 09:51:58 and the right/left are positioned such that i tend to hit the adjacent buttons :) Jul 25 09:52:23 the middle button. Yeah. seems like it. But that might be an illusion (if it's actually made from one plastic piece) Jul 25 09:52:35 no, i own both Jul 25 09:52:43 shame. Jul 25 09:52:45 i just don't have either in front of me Jul 25 09:52:58 I mean shame it doesn't work (not shame that you have 'em) Jul 25 09:52:59 my n800s are in my bag because i should be at work Jul 25 09:54:16 timelyx: ugh, that long link you posted somehow highlighted me :D Jul 25 09:55:39 timelyx: Which is the problem that you have with gstreamer ? Jul 25 09:57:01 dpb_: heh Jul 25 09:57:15 AD-N770: i have code that uses liboggplay (?) and i need it converted to use gstreamer Jul 25 09:57:23 (in a modular way ...) Jul 25 10:03:12 timelyx: just for palying ogg files in another app ? Jul 25 10:03:47 timelyx: on gstreamer is really easy write this kind of stuff, just at command line for example gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location= /media/mmc1/Music/On\ the\ Night/01\ -\ Calling\ Elvis.ogg ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! dsppcmsink Jul 25 10:04:35 in another app, yes Jul 25 10:04:41 a gecko web browser to be more specifically Jul 25 10:04:49 which is receiving streaming content Jul 25 10:05:44 timelyx: are you providing the buffering of the streamed content or could you delegate it to gstreamer ? Jul 25 10:07:07 providing Jul 25 10:07:22 i am the web browser Jul 25 10:07:34 * dpb_ browses with timelyx Jul 25 10:07:37 i have all sorts of non transferable auth tokens floating around Jul 25 10:07:45 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=272132&action=view Jul 25 10:10:17 timelyx: people on #gstreamer channel probably could help you better than me. But from my point of view you have a pair of options Jul 25 10:10:42 morning all... Jul 25 10:13:21 1) delegate to gstreamer the handling of the streamed content using gnomevfssrc, rtspsrc, mmssrc or whatever that will be apropiate, you can use palybin that will autoplug the required element depending on the src, mime and pluggins aviable Jul 25 10:14:22 timelyx: you have a gstreamer ogg plugin? Jul 25 10:14:25 2) create a src element that does the interaction with your internal buffering and use it with decodebin to create the decoding pipeline plus the sinks Jul 25 10:14:47 hmm Jul 25 10:15:06 ignore my question :) Jul 25 10:18:07 timelyx: write a pluggin for gstreamer is really easy, I need only 4 days of work/reading tutorial to write my first one Jul 25 10:18:33 plugin? Jul 25 10:19:08 plugin, sorry my english isn't good as I would like Jul 25 10:20:03 for the tuner tool, I wrote a plugin that performs a FFT(uses kissFFT) on one second of audio data Jul 25 10:20:19 morning (i really woke up this late) Jul 25 10:20:21 after find the peakl, fundamental frequency Jul 25 10:20:25 peak Jul 25 10:20:35 and send a msg to the app Jul 25 10:21:37 with that element I can build a pipeline like dsppcmsrc ! kissfft ! fakesink Jul 25 10:22:39 and all the sound captured by the mic is analysed Jul 25 10:23:42 on the app I'm running a second pipeline with audiotstsrc ! dsppcmsink for the piano keyboard to produce some notes Jul 25 10:23:49 yaay for timelyx! rihs buttons plz mompf kthx :) Jul 25 10:24:00 ? Jul 25 10:30:15 heh better dpad and right hand side buttons are my personal holy grail Jul 25 10:30:35 ah, yes, well, i don't have *any* influence over hardware Jul 25 10:30:51 and from talking about it w/other people, it seems like virtually no one in the software group does Jul 25 10:31:03 even after being here for a couple of years in some cases Jul 25 10:31:28 i'm not saying that we really should make a gameboy, although i poke management about it perhaps twice a year :) Jul 25 10:31:43 i know it's not a priority Jul 25 10:32:05 i can live with the onscreen buttons on the right hand side - been testing them with ur-quan masters now for two days Jul 25 10:32:27 but i really have problems with the dpad :( does anybody you meet recognize it as a problem? Jul 25 10:32:40 which problems do you have? :) Jul 25 10:32:54 moving left-right-up-down quickly is very difficult. Jul 25 10:33:00 fixing them doesn't seem to be a priority Jul 25 10:33:09 also the enter button is in the way Jul 25 10:33:26 ok Jul 25 10:34:59 if another company like gamepark holdings licensed the n800 or n900 (whatever) internals and designed a gaming case around it, that might be a possibility to sell units to the gaming/emu niche Jul 25 10:35:45 another possibility i am looking at is hand-building a case for a bluetooth gaming pad that fits around the n770 (just for me) Jul 25 10:35:55 problem is, the only company of any interest out there is nintendo Jul 25 10:36:11 and they know how to do ui design and hardware design better than we do. oh and marketting! Jul 25 10:36:19 yes, they sell many units- i read 100,000 last february or something Jul 25 10:36:43 oh, and they've done a fairly good job of managing wifi and touchscreen and arrows/buttons ... Jul 25 10:36:55 the DS has wifi? Jul 25 10:38:21 * pupnik has gotten two people interested enough in the N770/800 to buy one Jul 25 10:40:40 NintendoWIFI.com Jul 25 10:43:05 back Jul 25 10:43:19 Im one of the two people interested right pupnik? :) Jul 25 10:51:34 :) Jul 25 10:51:45 well you knew about it before zodttd Jul 25 10:53:44 :) Jul 25 10:53:59 pupnik, you mean 770/N800 ;) Jul 25 10:54:33 pupnik: Technically I wasnt interested in the tablet enough to get one until I saw your projects. Jul 25 10:54:39 Good Morning guys Jul 25 10:54:46 mornin Jul 25 10:54:57 * SeRi ywans.... Jul 25 10:55:09 Man time to go to work.... Jul 25 10:55:27 yay DS hacks! Jul 25 10:55:43 I love DS bootloaders and roms :P Jul 25 10:56:55 ok guys I am off to work.... cya! Jul 25 10:57:01 i dunno, that DS device looks too clunky Jul 25 10:57:05 cheers SeRi Jul 25 12:19:39 could someone please port 'saytime' to maemo? :D it would be super. like those old talking clocks Jul 25 12:25:58 Toma-, date +'%A %B %d %H:%M'|flite Jul 25 12:26:36 flite you say... Jul 25 12:27:11 oh NEAT! :D Jul 25 12:29:26 moimart.org is dead :S Jul 25 12:36:28 I want a cashier job at a store with no customers. Jul 25 12:37:28 Toma-: you can put it in a cron script too, or make an hourly chime... Jul 25 12:37:37 oh nice. Jul 25 12:37:48 i cant find a package for flite anywhere tho Jul 25 12:38:00 seems the person never put it on garage Jul 25 12:46:38 Toma-, maemo mapper pulls it when you try to install it Jul 25 12:46:55 oh wow. ok then Jul 25 12:47:18 ill use apt then :) thanks Jul 25 13:18:59 jobi: Around? Jul 25 13:19:41 jobi: Is there a canonical place where I can fetch the patch between you gtk and upstream's? Should I diff a SVN export of your gtk module against the tarball? Jul 25 13:19:53 jobi: I need gdk_close_all_temporary_windows() for newer hildon-desktop :) Jul 25 14:06:59 Anyone have any issues with a 4Gb mini SD card in the N800? Jul 25 14:07:08 Thinking of purchasing a couple. Jul 25 14:12:09 alterego: I did not have issues on the N800 and I use it as rootfs Jul 25 14:12:21 keesj, cool. Jul 25 14:12:41 skype stopped working lately but that's different :p Jul 25 14:13:05 alterego: but on the forums and mailing list some people had troubles Jul 25 14:13:12 Well, I have a problem with the on screen keyboard since I installed the microb browser :) Jul 25 14:13:29 keesj, yeah, I remember reading about that. I wasn't quite sure what their issue was. Jul 25 14:13:35 I cant' select oprea als browser andy more :p Jul 25 14:13:49 Yeah, I can't do that either. Jul 25 14:14:13 I've uninstalled MicroB and it's deps and it's still got that engine selection menu. Jul 25 14:14:27 With MicroB selected, and I'm still getting this on screen kb issue. Jul 25 14:14:33 the card failed twice on me on the 770 booth time it was with maemo-mapper or cannola Jul 25 14:14:50 I think I'll wait for the next ITOS release before I reflash the device though, because it's not exactly a major problem for me. Jul 25 14:15:03 Maemo Mappers kills those cards hard. Jul 25 14:15:11 Well, that is the 770 Jul 25 14:15:16 I don't have a 4 GB one, but even a 2 GB gives me trouble. Jul 25 14:15:19 could it be something with special files created by sqlite Jul 25 14:15:23 On an N800. Jul 25 14:16:01 With Maemo Mapper I would suspect simply the volume of I/O done on a ton of small files. Jul 25 14:16:06 No idea about Canola. Jul 25 14:16:08 * alterego uninstalls Maemo mapper. Jul 25 14:16:19 What?! No way. Jul 25 14:16:22 Most useful application ever. Jul 25 14:16:31 ehehehe Jul 25 14:16:47 It would be if it used a RAM disk for it's SQL database and then copied it to the SD card during power cycles. Jul 25 14:16:48 trevarthan: did you see my vkbd demo? Jul 25 14:17:10 alterego: Uh, that would be worse, I think. Jul 25 14:17:21 derf, How would that be worse? Jul 25 14:17:28 It crashes enough that I'm already annoyed at the number of things it doesn't sync to disk until you quit the application. Jul 25 14:17:48 (and it doesn't shutdown gracefully if it's still running when you power off the device) Jul 25 14:17:51 It wont make it worse derf. Jul 25 14:18:16 I just heard you say "cache more things in RAM", while I want "cache fewer things in RAM". Jul 25 14:18:20 How is that not worse? Jul 25 14:18:31 Oh, so it's worse because of something you want. Jul 25 14:18:46 Hence the "I think" at the end of my statement. Jul 25 14:18:53 It won't trash memory cards if the SQLite database is on a RAM disk. Jul 25 14:19:00 See, I don't believe that. Jul 25 14:19:09 derf, well that's your problem. Jul 25 14:19:15 I think it has far more to do with the map data than the SQLite database. Jul 25 14:19:33 k-s[WORK]: trev told me he has a lot of work today, so he's not around Jul 25 14:19:34 Oh, so it continually opens and writes to the map images? Jul 25 14:19:45 I don't think so .. Jul 25 14:19:57 It does if you're scrolling around with auto-download on. Jul 25 14:20:07 derf, I think you're missing the point. Jul 25 14:20:21 maemo-mapper does not trash memory cards. come on Jul 25 14:20:37 Downloading new images is just going to use up more SD memory. It's not going to constantly be writing to the same area on the media and wear it out. Jul 25 14:21:02 I have use maemo mapper since my 770 and It has not even once trash my cards Jul 25 14:21:11 Perhaps I should be more clear. The card itself continues to work fine. After I reboot the device because the kernel freaks out. Jul 25 14:21:34 We're talking about your cards now? Jul 25 14:21:36 memory cards to wear-leveling so writing on the same area is not a problem (because you don't write on the same area) Jul 25 14:21:45 I was always talking about my cards. Jul 25 14:21:54 I don't know what else you'd expect me to talk about. Jul 25 14:22:06 Heh Jul 25 14:22:18 disq: Yes, that's why I wasn't worried about it. Jul 25 14:22:30 Well, I'm not worried. Jul 25 14:22:32 derf: i was just clearing the air about that Jul 25 14:22:35 I barely use it. Jul 25 14:22:57 Though, I probably would more if I knew how to cache a large region. Jul 25 14:23:31 Go into "Manage Maps", you can download the currently displayed region at the detail levels you select. Jul 25 14:23:58 Ah, that easy. Jul 25 14:24:05 * alterego reinstalls maemo-mapper Jul 25 14:24:15 do any of you ever use the 'home' button (bottom button) on the device? Jul 25 14:24:16 ;) Jul 25 14:24:24 All the time. Jul 25 14:24:25 I basically use it when I'm on travel, which has been quite often in the past 6 months. Jul 25 14:24:30 pupnik, all the time .. Jul 25 14:24:47 hmm ok Jul 25 14:24:52 pupnik: all the time if i have a fullscreen app on the fg Jul 25 14:24:56 It's useful when you've got something fullscreened. Jul 25 14:24:58 Yeah. Jul 25 14:25:12 pupnik: all the time , I even preffered how it worked on the it2006 Jul 25 14:25:31 My xterms and browsers are always fullscreen. As are my MSN conversation windows. Jul 25 14:25:48 ok, i need to make these sdl games appear in that, and also get the x virtual keyboard to appear in that list Jul 25 14:26:07 perhaps we can create a wiki page with stuff we would like on the next generation device? Jul 25 14:26:28 I'd like a laser. Jul 25 14:26:34 speaking of sdl. i need a sdl guru (to track my unknown keysym problem) Jul 25 14:26:42 I'd like a shark. Jul 25 14:26:46 a real joy-stick Jul 25 14:26:47 i'd like a popcorn machine Jul 25 14:27:13 a real joy-stick and a jog dial on the opposite site Jul 25 14:27:18 scroll weels more buttons Jul 25 14:27:23 analog stick keesj ? Jul 25 14:27:28 Urgh. Jul 25 14:27:30 or a fast 8-way dpad? Jul 25 14:27:34 I don't want any more buttons thanks .. Jul 25 14:27:41 i don't think they'd go for analog stick Jul 25 14:27:43 pupnik: no just a normal c64 type :p Jul 25 14:28:10 with different autofire modes Jul 25 14:28:28 would you buy a slide-in shell with bluetooth dpad and right hand side buttons? Jul 25 14:29:09 i would absolutely try it Jul 25 14:30:24 pupnik: I don't know, I already have a wii-remote, I would prefer the buttons on the deice to be usable Jul 25 14:31:00 hmm yes I would if they would be mapped to new actions like scrolling Jul 25 14:31:18 of course it has to be very solid when mounted Jul 25 14:37:02 timeless: love how bug cloning files bugs on GET :O Jul 25 14:37:09 that'll teach me to use it eh ;) Jul 25 14:37:44 * sp3000 generally expects reload to be safe unless it complains Jul 25 14:39:36 * inz always excepts reload to be safe Jul 25 14:39:52 meh, it's only in the relevant rfc Jul 25 14:39:53 (and is often let down) Jul 25 14:40:05 who reads those Jul 25 14:40:34 cloning is an evil feature anyway :) Jul 25 14:41:13 hey... wii-mote and the 770 would be great... Jul 25 14:43:55 What's the deal with this iPhone keyboard? Jul 25 14:44:04 Why is it so "great"? Jul 25 14:44:44 Toma-: it's really working Jul 25 14:45:07 is it a garage project? Jul 25 14:46:41 no' it's a mud package Jul 25 14:48:21 the iphone keyboard on IT? Jul 25 14:48:22 need something interesting to do with my 770 :( Jul 25 14:48:48 Toma-: plenty of things to do! help test and improve http://pupnik.de/software.html Jul 25 14:48:52 would really love a drum machine Jul 25 14:49:08 :o never seen this page Jul 25 14:49:23 you could try to download it from here http://www.keesj.dds.nl/repo/repository_it2007/ Jul 25 14:50:07 keesj: what package? Jul 25 14:50:13 cwiid Jul 25 14:51:53 https://maemo.org/community/wiki/hardwarewishlist/ Jul 25 14:52:01 pupnik: cwiid Jul 25 14:52:10 ah for wii remote Jul 25 14:52:46 does cwiid need a n800? Jul 25 14:52:59 i can't use those pages Jul 25 14:53:02 keesj, try to paste maemo.org -links with http instead of https Jul 25 14:53:16 sorry Jul 25 14:53:43 keesj, I don't mind, I have a garage account, but for someone who doesn't, it is annoying Jul 25 14:53:51 *yep* Jul 25 14:53:53 :D Jul 25 14:54:53 it's also annoying to browse the site using https anyway, every time i try to paste something the thing goed in edit mode :p Jul 25 14:55:17 oh wow, my account logs into maemo.org now! wootness Jul 25 14:55:37 Maybe I should try it. Jul 25 14:55:50 keesj: does cwiid need a n800? im getting a libbluetooth2 error Jul 25 14:56:15 keesj, I have a habit of painting text while reading it... Jul 25 14:56:23 Awesome. 404. Jul 25 14:56:45 Toma-: this version was compiled fo the n800 but I can create one for the 770 if you want to try Jul 25 14:56:57 yeh ill give it a bash Jul 25 14:57:07 ill go grab a wiimote Jul 25 14:57:16 i can do a --force to install Jul 25 14:57:21 shouldnt really matter right? Jul 25 14:57:44 Toma-: I don't know Jul 25 14:58:40 did somebody read the "5 button" keyboard slashdot post a few day's ago? Jul 25 14:59:11 not too deeply Jul 25 14:59:45 it's a bit complicated but I would like to spend some time learning a typing method for on the road Jul 25 15:01:06 a wearable interface to the Tablet would be some fun future tech. Chording keyboard in pocket and display in sunglasses :) Jul 25 15:03:20 rfid reader? ir? distance meter, waterproof ' Jul 25 15:04:17 wmgui: error while loading shared libraries: libbluetooth.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Jul 25 15:04:20 bummer Jul 25 15:04:52 oh yes Jul 25 15:04:53 hmm i'm logging into my n800 using ssh, to which directory does the "Documents" directory correspond to ? Jul 25 15:04:58 bit of ln -s and bam :D Jul 25 15:04:59 i thought it would be /home/usr/MyDocs Jul 25 15:05:00 but it's not Jul 25 15:05:20 /home/user/MyDocs/.documents Jul 25 15:05:28 oh Jul 25 15:05:28 :) Jul 25 15:05:29 thx Jul 25 15:05:33 Yer welcome. Jul 25 15:05:45 keesj: I was thinking about an RFID reader :) Jul 25 15:05:50 well its recieving buttons. no motion Jul 25 15:06:12 Toma-: for motion you just need to ehnable it in the gui Jul 25 15:06:17 ahh Jul 25 15:06:42 Toma-: and if you have a kernel uinput module you can also use the remote as mouse Jul 25 15:06:43 freesci? Jul 25 15:06:44 sweet :D Jul 25 15:07:14 you can also shake it, but audio did not work last time I checked Jul 25 15:07:37 maddler the kits are quite big Jul 25 15:07:59 perhaps a gprs chip? Jul 25 15:08:05 pretty laggy Jul 25 15:08:13 _Monkey: freesci is the Interpreter/Emulator for Sierra On-Line adventure games. Test and comment! 770/N800 compatible testing version here http://pupnik.de/freesci.html Jul 25 15:08:14 <_Monkey> OK, pupnik. Jul 25 15:09:41 keesj: can you map the wiimote buttons to the Nintendo emulator? Jul 25 15:17:23 hello world Jul 25 15:17:47 so, um, in case people are curious, i finally got enough time to talk to people about the browser packages and their incompatibilities Jul 25 15:18:17 yesterday/today was supposed to be spent setting up something like a blog so i could post announcements Jul 25 15:18:25 oh well, i'll definitely need that Jul 25 15:19:12 anyway, there are two packages (tablet-browser-controls, browser-eal) which you can install from application manager if you have the extras repository Jul 25 15:19:54 they aren't compatible with the 4.2007-26 tablet-browser-ui (and its depedent) packages Jul 25 15:20:14 Toma-: I have not played with the emulator but why not Jul 25 15:20:36 hmmm! :D Jul 25 15:20:37 we will be issuing an updated package which includes dependencies to force that Jul 25 15:20:46 mobile NES? yes plx! Jul 25 15:20:51 if you run the daemon (and the a uinput module) it should just generate the input events Jul 25 15:21:00 ok Jul 25 15:21:10 i dont think theres a uinput for 770 Jul 25 15:21:12 but first, we're going to do some testing cycles :( Jul 25 15:23:20 We could use someone to dive around the gp2x fceu NES emulator sources and fix the speed/sound issues. Jul 25 15:24:17 Toma-: it's shipped with the btkdb Jul 25 15:24:35 http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ Jul 25 15:24:45 ahh thanks again Jul 25 15:27:04 timeless: is that for the mozilla based browser? Jul 25 15:33:22 timeless, I can fix you with a blog in maemo-hackers.org, if you want ;P Jul 25 15:33:54 whaq: um Jul 25 15:34:09 so, well, the fault is mozilla based browser being intertwined with the browser ui Jul 25 15:34:24 but it's basically possible to pull in these packages without related libraries Jul 25 15:34:27 and break opera Jul 25 15:34:39 inz: i need to just setup a small script Jul 25 15:34:40 great Jul 25 15:34:55 whaq: people who install microb don't have this problem Jul 25 15:35:02 but not everyone should be forced to use a beta Jul 25 15:35:07 unfortunately, um Jul 25 15:35:10 well.... Jul 25 15:35:12 * timeless hates debian Jul 25 15:35:13 will there be an easily-accessible option for end user to choose the active\default browser? Jul 25 15:35:26 yes heh Jul 25 15:35:27 there's supposed to be a menu below Close> that does that Jul 25 15:35:37 i've seen it Jul 25 15:35:40 great Jul 25 15:35:41 i've had people report it's there Jul 25 15:35:47 i've also had dozens of reports of it not being there Jul 25 15:35:47 perfect, even. Jul 25 15:35:50 and i've seen that too Jul 25 15:36:01 that is weird Jul 25 15:36:06 I have it there Jul 25 15:36:11 you can read bugs.maemo.org to see how to get it if you don't have it there Jul 25 15:36:14 but before you hack it Jul 25 15:36:21 please try to figure out what's special about your system Jul 25 15:36:27 because no one has explained how they didn't get it Jul 25 15:36:30 and we need to fix that too Jul 25 15:36:38 but we can't w/o understanding the cause Jul 25 15:37:02 timeless: have you ruled out some locale effects Jul 25 15:37:09 * sp3000 hasn't been testing it, mind Jul 25 15:37:15 i haven't Jul 25 15:37:21 currently worrying about this other thing Jul 25 15:37:23 me either, my n800 is still in the mail.. Jul 25 15:37:27 did you see the conclusion to the locale stuff? Jul 25 15:37:31 What other thing... TABS?? :D Jul 25 15:37:37 probably not Jul 25 15:37:45 sp3000: check the bug while i finish filing this Jul 25 15:37:51 Does anyone know how to get useful rss out of bugzilla Jul 25 15:38:01 inz: eh? Jul 25 15:38:15 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_id=388810,382267&ctype=rss Jul 25 15:38:39 timeless, I want rss that has the last changed -date as item date, not the bug creation date Jul 25 15:40:12 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Bugzilla&component=Creating/Changing+Bugs&format=guided&bug_severity=enhancement Jul 25 15:40:33 i'll fix it if you file it Jul 25 15:40:42 be sure to provide steps to get to the rss you're talking about Jul 25 15:40:55 and be sure to provide an attachment showing what you get and an attachment showing what you want Jul 25 15:41:01 i don't fix bugs i can't understand Jul 25 15:41:13 and if the bug isn't easier to fix than other things i have to deal w/, i'll ignore it Jul 25 15:41:23 but if you make it trivial for me to fix by spelling out exactly what you want changed, Jul 25 15:41:24 ... Jul 25 15:41:32 ;) Jul 25 15:41:35 you're competing for attn, make your bug count, you'll get it :) Jul 25 15:41:54 it'd also be appreciated if you include examples showing why it's a correct change Jul 25 15:42:05 either a reference to a standard or just some url that changes often enough so that it can be seen Jul 25 15:42:16 timeless, first I'd need to fight the change to bugzilla, then to the administrators of the 'zilla in question... Jul 25 15:42:36 your goal should always be to make it easy for an engineer to fix and then easy for the engineer to justify accepting the fix Jul 25 15:42:36 timeless, I guess I'll just make a perl script that makes it good enough for me Jul 25 15:42:37 * sp3000 whispers param Jul 25 15:42:58 inz: if the bugzilla is bugs.maemo, i have enough pull to get things changes Jul 25 15:42:59 timeless, but I'm an engineer, I want to fix things, not explain why they're broken Jul 25 15:43:01 s/s$/d/ Jul 25 15:43:19 timeless, almost that one, but not quite Jul 25 15:44:14 inz: http://mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla/source/template/en/default/list/list.atom.tmpl Jul 25 15:44:26 timeless: 1669 doesn conclude anything about locales, is that another bug? Jul 25 15:44:44 1706 Jul 25 15:46:12 dnd is hard, let's go shopping Jul 25 15:46:20 ? Jul 25 15:46:24 unrelated Jul 25 15:46:36 sp3000: xml is hard, let's go shopping Jul 25 15:46:41 (related) Jul 25 15:47:19 ?? Jul 25 15:47:38 timeless, that template looks like what I want... Jul 25 15:47:38 whaq: see the bug i referenced Jul 25 15:47:50 inz: i didn't pull it out of my rear... Jul 25 15:48:07 seriously, i know and will gladly fix it Jul 25 15:48:12 but you need to explain what i need to do Jul 25 15:48:18 preferably in a bug so i can sell it Jul 25 15:48:23 it'd be fixed by friday upstream Jul 25 15:48:34 timeless, I know, but it's not anywhere near the one I get Jul 25 15:48:44 heh Jul 25 15:48:46 inz: what version of bugzilla are you using? Jul 25 15:49:08 timeless, 2.20 Jul 25 15:49:16 inz: there's a view using tree drop down at the top Jul 25 15:49:26 change to bugzilla2.20.x Jul 25 15:49:27 <_Monkey> timeless: that doesn't look right Jul 25 15:50:11 for kicks, you can click "diff file" Jul 25 15:50:23 and select bugzilla2.20.x in one tree and bugzilla in the other Jul 25 15:50:28 then click "submit query" Jul 25 15:50:40 you'll see that they're indeed different, although only near the bottom Jul 25 15:50:49 http://mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla2.20.x/diff?file=/template/en/default/list/list.atom.tmpl&diffvar=bugzilla Jul 25 15:50:53 * sp3000 homes Jul 25 15:51:06 sp3000: these new features on mxr-test really are useful :) Jul 25 15:51:33 :) Jul 25 15:51:40 Sumbdy bld an aoss wrapper for /dev/dsp output kthnx Jul 25 15:51:41 inz: a proper diff is available by using the CVS Log links Jul 25 15:52:26 http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsview2.cgi?command=DIFF&subdir=%2Fmozilla%2Fwebtools%2Fbugzilla%2Ftemplate%2Fen%2Fdefault%2Flist&file=list.atom.tmpl&rev1=1.1.2.3&rev2=1.4&whitespace_mode=show&diff_mode=context Jul 25 15:53:14 hrm, actually, i suppose there are some other differences at 32/36/39/44/50/52 Jul 25 15:53:21 i just can't see those !s too dimm Jul 25 15:53:26 * timeless will have to try sticking them in bold :) Jul 25 15:53:39 timeless, is there a way for the user to choose between rdf and atom feeds? Jul 25 15:54:06 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_id=388810,382267&ctype=rdf Jul 25 15:54:12 bit very useful Jul 25 15:54:29 s/bi/no/ Jul 25 15:54:29 timeless meant: not very useful Jul 25 15:54:38 wait, you have *two* bots? Jul 25 15:56:08 timeless, the bugzilla I use outputs rdf-based rss for ctype=rss Jul 25 15:56:55 inz: lemme finish filing this bug Jul 25 15:57:07 could someone please tell me the prayer one says right before someone dies? Jul 25 15:57:11 is that called "last rites"? Jul 25 15:57:43 * zuh never thought bug filing could get that dangerous Jul 25 15:58:08 zuh: hold Jul 25 15:58:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 Jul 25 15:58:28 imagine filing that bug report Jul 25 15:58:52 sure you shouldn't actually stick a human subject where they did, but um... the actual results do include death in what was it, 6 cases? Jul 25 15:59:01 timeless, I'm off to sauna now, I'll see if I'm still bothered by it tomorrow ;) Jul 25 15:59:06 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch Jul 25 15:59:13 lol Jul 25 15:59:32 timeless, and anyway it seems to be fixed upstream Jul 25 15:59:46 inz: ok :) Jul 25 16:00:05 hyperion: yeah, it's not really funny,... Jul 25 16:00:14 keep in mind we have cases of exploding batteries Jul 25 16:00:25 and today there were reports of exploding remote control airplanes Jul 25 16:00:47 you can say a prayer for the plane before you blow it up Jul 25 16:00:58 there are also people who manage to brick their n800s Jul 25 16:01:09 definitely want to say the prayer before it dies... Jul 25 16:02:51 sorry, i think some humor is worthwhile when dealing w/ unhappy people Jul 25 16:18:44 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1720 Jul 25 16:19:50 ok, i'd appreciate it if a few people at least read that item Jul 25 16:19:57 * timeless goes off to figure out blogging software Jul 25 16:20:06 sl i just read on gustavobarbieri blog, that his EFL stuff are just a showcase... Jul 25 16:21:11 anyone working on app using gustavo's method? will we soon be seeing these eyecandy apps for the devices... Jul 25 16:22:45 unique311: It's a showcase/test bed for what Canola is using in the next version (AIUI) Jul 25 16:25:51 timeless: it's a cool example (any chance you can rebuild browser-eal or tablet-browser-controls with a dependency on tablet-browser-ui et al?) Jul 25 16:26:06 jaffa: we'll do that Jul 25 16:26:13 but there's no chance i'm shipping it before friday Jul 25 16:26:24 i'm going to have testers figure out all the different variations Jul 25 16:26:27 you could help Jul 25 16:26:42 basically i need to know if 2.2007 is broken also Jul 25 16:26:55 (really, i want to know if 770 non hacker edition is broken too) Jul 25 16:27:12 if 2.2007 is broken, then i suspect that the fix you/i are considering is wrong Jul 25 16:27:18 because it'd probably break even more things Jul 25 16:27:25 and that's definitely not what i want Jul 25 16:27:34 does anyone here have or remember an ancient n800? Jul 25 16:27:44 i'm trying to understand what releases existed Jul 25 16:27:52 bugs.maemo lists 2.2007, 3.2007, 4.2007 Jul 25 16:28:13 but my memory differs, so i need to find a normal person to confirm Jul 25 16:30:07 anyway, if you could follow the steps i've outlined in the bug w/ 2.2007 / 3.2007 and determine if they too are breakable Jul 25 16:30:10 that'd be a great help Jul 25 16:30:20 if we break those, i need a very different fix plan Jul 25 16:30:33 right now i need to figure out how to deal w/ announcements and some other things Jul 25 16:31:04 (qa and releng went home for the day, otherwise tomorrow morning that's what qa does. and releng would setup the repositories for qa to test..) Jul 25 16:31:26 timeless: I'll try and find time, but I'm (suddenly) super massive busy at work :-( Jul 25 16:31:43 it doesn't really have to be you of course, anyone willing to reflash could do it Jul 25 16:31:53 the steps to reproduce are designed for anyone to be able to folllow Jul 25 16:32:01 although i didn't include the url for getting the older flash images Jul 25 16:32:07 which i did in the steps i gave to qa Jul 25 16:32:34 (instructions were clear: download from the official public site, but i did the download before a went home to avoid risk of confusion) Jul 25 16:32:48 i'll comment in the bug explaining that it would be helpful Jul 25 16:35:43 hrm, stupid question Jul 25 16:35:48 can you flash a device using windows? Jul 25 16:35:55 yes Jul 25 16:36:09 where are the instructions for that? Jul 25 16:36:15 i can find instructions for linux and osx Jul 25 16:36:20 (and i've used both) Jul 25 16:37:10 timeless, try the official n800 product pages Jul 25 16:38:11 ah, http://nds1.nokia.com/files/support/global/phones/software/Nokia_Internet_Tablet_Software_Update_Wizard.exe Jul 25 16:38:40 For 770: http://usa.nokia.com/A4144790 For n800: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 Jul 25 16:39:54 Specifically, you have to change the image selected at the end of the wizard process http://europe.nokia.com/link?cid=PLAIN_TEXT_80298 Jul 25 16:40:42 thanks Jul 25 16:40:44 np Jul 25 16:40:53 kinda silly that mameo.org doesn't have pages for this Jul 25 16:40:59 one stop shopping ... Jul 25 16:41:17 especially given how amazingly bad nokia's site is at getting google hits Jul 25 16:43:58 I have a 770, and looking to take a bunch of screenshots for tutorials, what apps do people use? Jul 25 16:44:13 there's a screenshot-tool commandline Jul 25 16:44:19 i tend to use it w/ "sleep 5" Jul 25 16:44:26 there's also a cpu meter tray applet Jul 25 16:44:31 that happens to have a screenshot feature Jul 25 16:44:35 don't ask me why Jul 25 16:44:58 Hehe, cause people who care about load probably want to take screenshots at some point ;) Jul 25 16:45:00 also not sure what you mean by "bunch", are you trying to make avvideo Jul 25 16:45:28 notpeter: *shrug*, taskmanager on windows, activity monitor.app on osx neither have such a feature Jul 25 16:45:37 of course, both os's come w/ native screen shot support Jul 25 16:46:11 yeah, too bad my mac doesn't have a "print screen" button ;) Jul 25 16:46:18 cmd-opt-3 Jul 25 16:46:27 no, I know, for use in windows Jul 25 16:46:29 *word* i think printscreen is command (a.k.a the Apple key) - shift - 3. Jul 25 16:46:37 oh, hrm Jul 25 16:46:45 my usb keyboard is mac oriented Jul 25 16:46:55 i don't recall having problems using it w/ windows Jul 25 16:47:06 not a big deal, twas just kidding Jul 25 16:48:57 but since you mention it, there isn't a way to record video, is there? I think the easiest way would be to just run a script that ran screenshot tool taking a screenshot every five seconds or something and then put them all together later off device. Jul 25 16:49:17 that's what i was wondering if you were looking for Jul 25 16:50:10 but I'll stop speculating, I'll play with what's out there and see if it fits my needs Jul 25 16:50:10 my keyboard kinda looks like this: http://www.nextag.com/Adesso-PCK-308B-Tru-81106118/prices-html w/o the gray bits Jul 25 16:51:23 http://only.mawhrin.net/~mss/thingies/mst/ looks vaguely interesting Jul 25 16:52:20 "Load applet" is the status bar thing that does it Jul 25 16:55:15 itaka sounds interesting Jul 25 16:56:44 * timeless gives up Jul 25 16:57:05 i'd probably use a shell script that basically loops around sleeping and screenshottooling Jul 25 17:01:08 I'm trying to setup an N800 and noticed there's no /usr/bin/editor. I know the device comes with vi, but there doesn't seem to be an escape key. Are there any other editors on the device? Thanks. Jul 25 17:01:25 you can use osso notes gui :) Jul 25 17:01:33 there's an upgraded xterm that has an esc button Jul 25 17:01:42 jjazz: try the escape hw key, it's the one with the arrow Jul 25 17:01:43 but the hardware escape (back) key works to send escape Jul 25 17:01:46 the circle-arrow button should be e... Jul 25 17:01:56 Ah, good tips. Thank you all. Jul 25 17:03:00 More questions: is there a way to read an image off the device? I thought I might use it for backup. That way I can restore the box just by flashing it. Jul 25 17:03:18 technically yes Jul 25 17:03:21 i had it done once Jul 25 17:03:31 in practice, i'm not sure how useful it Jul 25 17:03:32 is Jul 25 17:03:41 since the result isn't really compatible w/ anything Jul 25 17:03:56 the flasher wants input that's in an unrelated format Jul 25 17:04:10 probably 0xFFFF can do that Jul 25 17:04:13 Ah. OK. I'll stick with rsync then. Jul 25 17:04:27 yeah, rsync is reasonable Jul 25 17:04:53 And, before I reinvent the wheel, anybody know a script that will convert gpe-calendar's sqlite db to ical? Jul 25 17:04:55 i'm also not really sure you can do it w/ special hardware Jul 25 17:05:13 when it was done for me, the guy used special hardware Jul 25 17:05:33 but i suppose it's probably theoretically possible, he basically did a dd if=/dev/{something} Jul 25 17:05:37 timeless: Special hardware... that I don't have. Happily, rsync is a known quantity. :) Jul 25 17:05:55 isn't rsync one of those apps i can't get for maemo? :) Jul 25 17:06:21 I got it via apt-get. Jul 25 17:06:32 ok :) Jul 25 17:06:51 i just recall having trouble getting some fairly basic tool on some strange platform, i thought it was rsync Jul 25 17:06:57 otoh, it might have been windows Jul 25 17:07:14 Well, I had to search all over the place for a repository, but I did eventually find one. Jul 25 17:07:15 (and yes, i know rsync is amazingly portable, but some toolchains are just amazingly broken) Jul 25 17:07:51 I'm looking into scratchbox. All these random repositories kind of freak me out. Jul 25 17:07:51 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2007-February/004142.html Jul 25 17:08:14 having killed a standard desktop using repositories, you definitely want to use /something/ to protect yourself Jul 25 17:09:37 timeless: that link goes to a version of rsync that wouldn't install on my N800. It's built for the arm instead of the armel Jul 25 17:09:48 oh, you said n800 Jul 25 17:09:49 sorry Jul 25 17:09:56 for some reason i thought you said 770 Jul 25 17:10:18 Cool. My bt keybd just arrived. Jul 25 17:11:46 * timeless gives up Jul 25 17:11:51 maybe it was rsync that i couldn't find easily :) Jul 25 17:12:37 notpeter, if you want to upload your screenshots to flickr, you can also use mh-shot-tool ;) Jul 25 17:12:41 timeless: deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ 2.0 free Jul 25 17:13:50 > The spirit of simplicity extends even to Apple retail stores. The elevator in Apple's popular Tokyo store, for instance, has no floor buttons. It stops on every floor of the four-story building. "I got used to this," said Hiroshi Kawano, 40-year-old employee of a printing firm, on a recent visit to the store. "It's simple, and I like it." Jul 25 17:13:52 * timeless chuckles Jul 25 17:15:44 hahaha Jul 25 17:16:07 Whoa. This keybd is awesome. Jul 25 17:16:54 timeless, paternoster-elevators are even cooler, they don't even have doors Jul 25 17:17:36 inz: been there done that Jul 25 17:18:04 Lucerna building in Prague Jul 25 17:18:28 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. Jul 25 17:19:05 timeless, sadly I've never used one, the finnish parliament house has "one" though Jul 25 17:19:14 yes, i've heard/read Jul 25 17:19:26 go to prague :) Jul 25 17:19:49 maybe some day Jul 25 17:20:03 the longer you wait the less likely it'll be operational :) Jul 25 17:20:09 I have always wondered what happens after the top floor with that kind of elevators Jul 25 17:20:21 you move laterally Jul 25 17:20:37 and go down Jul 25 17:20:49 nice Jul 25 17:21:06 does anyone know any bejeweled port to maemo ? Jul 25 17:21:21 Sparrow, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster Jul 25 17:21:24 i think i had one Jul 25 17:21:32 on one of my older devices Jul 25 17:21:39 gweled .. found one Jul 25 17:21:50 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/battlegweled/ ? Jul 25 17:21:58 yep. Jul 25 17:22:05 yeah Jul 25 17:22:11 although iirc their repo was gone Jul 25 17:22:22 so i couldn't install any of their software on my later devices Jul 25 17:22:26 but no source .. Jul 25 17:22:48 there was a 5yr girl who was fairly upset at me because i introduced her to crazyparking and then didn't have it Jul 25 17:22:59 fwiw, getting 5yr olds upset is a bad idea Jul 25 17:23:13 =) Jul 25 17:23:16 and introducing them to addictive games and then losing them is pretty bad Jul 25 17:23:20 since they have a fairly good memory Jul 25 17:23:42 getting any amotions out of 5yr girls is allways hazardous Jul 25 17:24:07 it'd been a while since i had much in the way of interactions with that age group Jul 25 17:25:03 i have one of those so its kinda hard to be without. Jul 25 17:25:50 i suppose you don't remember what it's like not ... Jul 25 17:26:23 to be 5yr girl or ? Jul 25 17:26:31 having one around Jul 25 17:27:13 * timeless suspects life is much more exciting Jul 25 17:28:06 if you like lots of screaming and shouting then yes =) Jul 25 17:28:45 im not complaining thou so dont get me wrong there. Jul 25 17:29:06 jani, so you do like lots of screaming and shouting? Jul 25 17:29:30 * timeless chuckles Jul 25 17:29:32 nah. im just Not complaining. Jul 25 17:29:39 stating the facts Jul 25 17:29:42 there's a difference. Jul 25 17:30:22 very minor. usually only audible only by db meter. Jul 25 17:30:49 * pupnik watches thoughtfix take apart a n800 on youtube Jul 25 17:31:41 anyway, i was thinking.. if i manage to wrap up this curses based bejeweled, i'll try to port it to maemo too .. Jul 25 17:32:09 the full version not port-able? Jul 25 17:32:45 well, this is just for practicing how to make portable code .. Jul 25 17:33:37 and seems that battlegweled doesnt come with source ? gweled source i have ... Jul 25 17:34:27 and i really want to make the curses version =) Jul 25 17:36:00 mk Jul 25 17:37:05 jani: can you figure out if they're related? what's the license for gweled? Jul 25 17:38:48 they most propably are. Jul 25 17:39:00 maemo.org says "A Gweled based bejeweled clone for Maemo, if the optional multiplayer battle mode. Wi-fi only." Jul 25 17:39:50 jani: send an email to the maintainer asking for the sources Jul 25 17:39:57 gpl2 obligations Jul 25 17:40:50 yep Jul 25 17:41:46 its a shame how things are like this, not honouring gpl .. Jul 25 17:42:01 s/honouring/understanding/ Jul 25 17:42:16 http://openbossa.indt.org.br/games/pool/games/ Jul 25 17:42:46 i was trying to fish that url from .install files. thanks =) Jul 25 17:42:57 i was already at that directory Jul 25 17:43:03 but i didn't notice the .tar.gz Jul 25 17:43:12 for some reason i decided it wasn't what i was looking for Jul 25 17:43:36 the general trick is to add /pool/ to a repository Jul 25 17:43:48 timeless, maybe your brain cannot decompress gzip? Jul 25 17:44:27 inz: brain's very tired from all the other things, but had i clicked the link, my browser would have sent it to winzip which handled it fine Jul 25 17:44:34 i think i've been in .deb land too long Jul 25 17:44:43 i was looking for a file named w/ debian source conventions Jul 25 17:45:07 im not that familiar with deb repositories myself Jul 25 17:45:51 timeless, isn't that w/ debian source conventions Jul 25 17:46:05 timeless, no dash in version => no upstream => no .orig in tarball Jul 25 17:46:17 maybe Jul 25 17:46:27 i think all the packages i use are hacked to hell Jul 25 17:47:41 ;) Jul 25 17:50:16 i gosh. Jul 25 17:50:26 battlegweled uses .bmp images Jul 25 17:50:42 you don't approve? Jul 25 17:51:05 marbbles and blocks do Jul 25 17:51:41 i havent noticed those. i will take need to take alook then. Jul 25 17:52:24 * pupnik notes that matchbox-keyboard is a newer 'improved' xkbd Jul 25 17:52:39 the blocks in blocks are from bmp Jul 25 17:52:43 as are the numbers Jul 25 17:52:53 anybody know what that black onscreen keyboard on the penguinbait OPENROX video is? Jul 25 17:53:17 well, those images take approx 5mb .. not much but still it is 4.8mb that would be used for something else. Jul 25 17:53:24 bmp: how to waste space :P Jul 25 17:53:29 err Jul 25 17:53:36 you realize that jffs2 does compression Jul 25 17:53:44 space is relative Jul 25 17:53:51 yes i do Jul 25 17:54:05 jffs2 makes speed relative too ;) Jul 25 17:54:49 but its not propably that efficient compared to image compression for actual image data =) Jul 25 17:54:52 good point re: compression. but image specific compression like in png can be more efficient Jul 25 17:56:21 virtually everything in marbles is bmp Jul 25 17:56:45 i knew it was horrible but i never checked what fileformats it uses. Jul 25 17:56:45 one thing i'm not sure is how much is actually shipped Jul 25 17:56:49 i'm looking at the sources Jul 25 17:57:00 you're internal, right? Jul 25 17:57:21 http://swift/osso10/find?string=bmp$ Jul 25 17:57:30 just wander around Jul 25 17:57:33 well, my badge says external but i have access. Jul 25 17:58:21 allthou im on holiday now. but im on compapps. Jul 25 17:58:42 timeless: I was about to say that keep your insider urls out of public channels but apparently that's sort of valid url in "real" world too :P Jul 25 17:58:48 that's a relatively complete reference for what we ship Jul 25 17:59:26 zuh: normally i get a google redirect to some site Jul 25 17:59:28 which is fun Jul 25 17:59:40 no connection details are disclosed in that url Jul 25 18:00:08 i'll have to check that later when i get to the office. thanks. Jul 25 18:00:16 that jffs2 is bastard thing btw. Jul 25 18:00:47 well, not the fs itself but how testers think how it should work. Jul 25 18:01:03 Internal urls just suck since most of the people here won't be able to access it... It's like waving candy at children and saying they can't have any Jul 25 18:01:31 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/songbird/find?string=png Jul 25 18:01:34 have some candy Jul 25 18:01:57 zuh: i'm trying to get an external equivalent running on probably lxr.maemo.org Jul 25 18:02:15 the urls i do toss around are intentionally generic Jul 25 18:02:23 and only show off general features that you could use on any of my installs Jul 25 18:02:42 mxr.mozilla.org mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test ... Jul 25 18:02:52 That's cool, though I was mostly making a general comment about any non-accessible urls. Jul 25 18:03:02 swift happens to be internal and yes, it happens to have a collection of all garage sources Jul 25 18:03:15 but the goal is to get that published outside for everyone to use Jul 25 18:03:27 i just need to spend some time when i'm *not* fighting browser fires to do it Jul 25 18:03:59 timeless: you work also in ruoholahti or ? Jul 25 18:04:05 yes Jul 25 18:04:16 i couldn't say that until we released browser last week :) Jul 25 18:04:26 =) Jul 25 18:05:09 zuh: would it be in bad form for me to indicate my room number? :) Jul 25 18:05:35 hehe Jul 25 18:05:51 jani: wander around in search of the org chart hanging over the 770 from silver surfer next to the n800 sales info from nokiausa/nokia.com Jul 25 18:06:10 (yes the org chart is company confidential ...) Jul 25 18:06:22 it also isn't accurate (never was) Jul 25 18:06:40 timeless: only if your contract probhibits such things :) Jul 25 18:06:59 there's a rule about disclosing connection specific details or something Jul 25 18:07:03 swift doesn't disclose that Jul 25 18:07:13 and osso10 was released including bleeding that detail Jul 25 18:07:35 the rest of the url as i've indicated can be found all over on sites i control (and on a number i don't e.g. the mozilla.org one) Jul 25 18:07:50 i try to be very careful about such things Jul 25 18:08:18 =) Jul 25 18:08:45 i'll talk about things that other people are doing in the open (e.g. plankton), but you can get it just as easily as i can Jul 25 18:08:53 probably more easily, since i need a proxy Jul 25 18:09:09 well, to make it simple, i usually need to say "Im that dreadlocked/breaded fellow" and everybody remembers seeing me there =) Jul 25 18:09:28 s/breaded/bearded/ Jul 25 18:09:28 jani meant: well, to make it simple, i usually need to say "Im that dreadlocked/bearded fellow" and everybody remembers seeing me there =) Jul 25 18:09:39 * timeless doesn't remember Jul 25 18:09:52 * timeless is the american with an opinion about everything Jul 25 18:10:05 then you code too much =) Jul 25 18:10:18 i don't get out much, no Jul 25 18:10:23 * timeless decides to walk home Jul 25 18:29:06 Anyone ever have the task selector show up with big icons and text? Jul 25 18:29:32 As though it's continually detecting a fat finger press which never happened? Jul 25 18:30:07 do you mean thumb keyboard? Jul 25 18:30:43 No, you know how the N800 detects when you press the application/contact/web menu with a finger it displays a large menu. Jul 25 18:30:58 Like that but with the task switcher menu (accessible through the home key) Jul 25 18:31:01 wow i never did that before! Jul 25 18:31:42 ;) Jul 25 18:32:04 Well, that's happening every time the task selector menu comes up. And it shouldn't. Jul 25 18:32:30 Does that until I restart the device. Jul 25 18:33:02 I think I will reflash my N800 in a bit actually .. Jul 25 18:33:10 Get rid of some of these weird things hopefully. Jul 25 18:33:12 i thought it was a new feature. Jul 25 18:33:27 does any konw where i can find the host command and whois for mistral? Jul 25 18:33:44 Oh, yeah. Jul 25 18:33:48 I can reverse it! Jul 25 18:33:52 ^_^ Jul 25 18:34:17 So if you open the menu using a finger or thumb it comes up big, and successive opens with the home button will bring up the big version. Jul 25 18:34:34 But if you do it with small object/nail/pen it comes up small again. Jul 25 18:34:40 Well, that's nice ^_^ Jul 25 18:36:42 <`0660> actually the big buttons come up only for people with really fat fingers Jul 25 18:36:59 <`0660> :p Jul 25 18:37:47 dose any have whois or host working on there nokia? Jul 25 18:38:02 `0660: the rest of us get the gray alien fingers version Jul 25 18:38:37 i dont think so but there was some net tools just released wasnt there ? Jul 25 18:39:38 something was in maemo devel list by quim few weeks ago. Jul 25 18:40:10 hmm ill look into it Jul 25 18:40:30 do you have a link where i could start looking? Jul 25 18:41:04 im quite sure the announcement was in maemo.org too.. Jul 25 18:41:23 is anyone using the high speed MMC kernels on a 770? http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#mmcplus Jul 25 18:42:06 http://maemo.org/news/view/1181130611.html Jul 25 18:42:17 containing ping, arping and tracepath for simple network analysis Jul 25 18:42:21 but no host/whois .. Jul 25 18:42:22 cool Jul 25 18:42:24 configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check Jul 25 18:42:31 well ill keep looking Jul 25 18:42:38 i would like to have ping too thow Jul 25 18:42:41 anyway, host would be pretty easy to implement Jul 25 18:42:42 thanks you jani Jul 25 18:43:08 ahh nm Jul 25 18:43:29 and whois, depends on what sort of stuff you want to do with it, i'd say there's alot of web apps which can do better whois service than most commandline tools. Jul 25 18:43:48 i konw but im tring to troble shoot some issuses on the lan Jul 25 18:43:53 atleast when it comes to making queries against multiple whois servers. Jul 25 18:43:54 ack Jul 25 18:44:11 im having problems with the name server where im at Jul 25 18:44:21 thats one thing where web whois cant help ya =) Jul 25 18:57:43 it appears that i can not create an x window with less than full width in ITOS Jul 25 19:00:43 considering video on n800, what would be the ideal video format and resolution? I was thinking about how to watch dvd's with it... Jul 25 19:01:58 i use http://www.bleb.org/software/770/770-encode.pl to convert movies to nokia friendly format Jul 25 19:02:06 http://www.bleb.org/software/770/ Jul 25 19:04:37 pupnik: oh, thanks, I'll try that one. I just got a 2GB sd and thought that I shoud put it into some use :) Jul 25 19:05:19 depends on what you're using to play the stuff... mplayer can do xvid/divx Jul 25 19:21:44 Is there a menu application or something out there that I can configure with my most commonly used shell command, so that when I start up xterm I just run one command and then press down a bunch of times or something? Jul 25 19:21:51 I could write one... but I'm lazy. Jul 25 19:22:23 You can configure the toolbar. Jul 25 19:22:41 yeah, I know, but I need more options than that. Jul 25 19:22:46 it gets crowded. Jul 25 19:22:55 hey all when i run python gtk apps....the edge of the window over laps the nice faded edge of the screen on the left Jul 25 19:22:58 anyway to stop this? Jul 25 19:23:13 nmapfe is very crowded.....hehehe ;) Jul 25 19:23:15 cbx33, in the SDK? Jul 25 19:23:27 i just installed python Jul 25 19:23:33 and I'm running a very simple program Jul 25 19:23:37 but i want it to look nice Jul 25 19:23:42 just like Jul 25 19:23:44 import gtk Jul 25 19:23:47 cbx33, you need to read the Python tutorial. Jul 25 19:23:51 oh ok Jul 25 19:23:55 cbx33, are you using hildon.Window or gtk.Window? Jul 25 19:23:56 the maemo python tutorial? Jul 25 19:23:57 You have to create a Hildon::Window and a Hildon::Program Jul 25 19:24:00 gtk window Jul 25 19:24:04 i guess that's the problem Jul 25 19:24:06 No, Hildon::Window Jul 25 19:24:07 ahh Jul 25 19:24:09 Yes :) Jul 25 19:24:13 got a link Jul 25 19:24:18 would relaly like to read up on that Jul 25 19:24:25 hm.. quite a lot of bluetooth keyboards in the market.. any particularly good one? Jul 25 19:24:30 cbx33, pymaemo.garage.maemo.org Jul 25 19:24:46 nmapfe isn't properly ported to maemo, that's why it doesn't integrate with the UI. Jul 25 19:25:45 alterego, i know Jul 25 19:25:55 oh and i tried to untar the pygtk src today Jul 25 19:25:57 to get the docs Jul 25 19:26:03 and i got tar: invalid tar magic Jul 25 19:26:07 any ideas? Jul 25 19:26:40 cbx33, it's gzip'd too I'd imagine. Jul 25 19:26:50 Try, tar xzf tarfile.tar Jul 25 19:26:58 Any way to launch console apps from a button on the Home screen? Jul 25 19:27:08 cbx33, If you're using UNIX you can use 'file filename' to find out what kind of file it is. Jul 25 19:27:20 alterego, yeh that didn't work Jul 25 19:27:23 i did Jul 25 19:27:23 cbx33, if that doesn't work. Try downloading the source again ;) Jul 25 19:27:29 whaaa Jul 25 19:27:30 really? Jul 25 19:27:32 corrupted? Jul 25 19:27:36 Come on, it's not that big :) Jul 25 19:27:42 heheh Jul 25 19:27:59 is pymaemo.... the python you instlal from the repos? Jul 25 19:28:24 cbx33: tar xf foo.tar Jul 25 19:28:34 it might be non-gzipped Jul 25 19:29:09 its a .tar.gz Jul 25 19:29:18 i tried that Jul 25 19:29:21 it won't budge Jul 25 19:30:25 damn. Jul 25 19:32:53 Yeah, probably corrupted then. Jul 25 19:36:33 hey jani? Jul 25 19:36:43 indt games for maemo just posted to add a garage project :) Jul 25 19:37:17 ok I'll try again later on Jul 25 19:37:17 Well, that was short lived. Jul 25 19:37:18 thanks guys Jul 25 19:37:20 email or to the website? Jul 25 19:37:41 is pymaemo.... the python you instlal from the repos? Jul 25 19:37:46 My site is no longer #1 in google for Ruby Maemo :~( Jul 25 19:37:59 Oh well, I'm gonna move the project to rubyx.co.uk anyhow. Jul 25 19:39:59 a project Jul 25 19:40:14 i don't generally do approvals of project proposals Jul 25 19:41:14 err, i've *never* done them :) Jul 25 19:41:20 but i get email for them :) Jul 25 19:53:00 robtaylor: wtf, I can't authorize you still dude Jul 25 19:54:28 ack Jul 25 20:17:06 i think i figured out a possible way to get xkbd out of the way when running apps. the window height is selectable (but not the width) so i might be able to add a button to change window height to 8 pixels. then a tap in that area will revert it to the normal size Jul 25 20:17:57 uh oh. all the sound output of my n800 is more or less garbled suddenly :o Jul 25 20:18:48 fatal-_: that has happened to me twice, first time i had to reflash it to fix it, but the second time it only took a restart Jul 25 20:19:05 hmm. well, restart time then Jul 25 20:20:00 good luck Jul 25 20:20:06 reboot fixed the tv brightness problem Jul 25 20:22:04 http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/viewtopic.php?t=1586 Jul 25 20:22:09 reboot fixed the problem.. Jul 25 20:22:12 pupnik for you... Jul 25 20:23:38 can u port senior Jul 25 20:30:55 thanks for the hildon help Jul 25 20:31:04 anything else that I should use hildon for rather than gtk? Jul 25 20:31:54 * cbx33 wants a btkb but they are all so expensive Jul 25 20:32:23 ok Jul 25 20:32:25 guys Jul 25 20:32:31 heres the question Jul 25 20:32:43 borg vs. transformers who wins Jul 25 20:32:51 borg Jul 25 20:33:08 though I'd love it if the transformers did Jul 25 20:33:13 pft, the borg assimilate their technilogical and biological likenesses into their own Jul 25 20:33:34 transformers Jul 25 20:33:54 looks fun unique311 Jul 25 20:34:03 i tried Jul 25 20:34:35 what didn't work? Jul 25 20:35:17 Is installing software on '06 on a 770 generally a major hassle, or am I (hopefully) missing something? Jul 25 20:35:57 ? Jul 25 20:36:37 it's a bit of a hassle sometimes Jul 25 20:36:46 * GreySim is particularly interested in Evince and Xournal and can't seem to make it work. Jul 25 20:38:03 thanks so much for the hildon links Jul 25 20:38:09 I tried compiling it pupnik... Jul 25 20:38:11 guys this is gonna be so cool Jul 25 20:38:14 but failed.. Jul 25 20:38:40 complained about SDL_mixer.h Jul 25 20:38:54 <||cw> GreySim: you added the sources right? Jul 25 20:39:13 Are there sometimes multiple places to get things? Maybe I'm just using the wrong repository... Jul 25 20:39:24 Yes. Jul 25 20:39:37 N800 i found some of the sdl headers were missing and i manually copied them in from another debian distro Jul 25 20:40:13 It's giving me missing package problems when trying to download. Jul 25 20:40:26 then install those missing packages first Jul 25 20:40:57 N800 you should have /usr/include/SDL/SDL_mixer.h Jul 25 20:40:59 Wait, wrong error. One moment please. Jul 25 20:43:49 Unable to download. Package not found. Jul 25 20:44:05 where did you see that error Jul 25 20:44:22 ?? Jul 25 20:44:26 Also, hurray for word completion. Jul 25 20:45:16 Application manager, when trying to install Xournal. Jul 25 20:45:18 pupnik, will you give it a go when you have time? Jul 25 20:45:59 compiling... Jul 25 20:46:20 cool Jul 25 20:46:57 GreySim: do you have 770 or 800? Jul 25 20:47:02 my scratchbox must be borked then... Jul 25 20:47:16 Before, it was giving me problems about libglade, and somewhere, saw that repository.maemo.org mistral free non-free was supposed to have had it. Jul 25 20:47:20 770. Jul 25 20:47:48 <||cw> unfortuantly sometimes repo's go offline Jul 25 20:49:08 As in temporarily, or shutting up shop? Jul 25 20:49:33 <||cw> either Jul 25 20:50:47 i never got Xournal installed either Jul 25 20:51:07 grrr Jul 25 20:51:10 and maemopad+ that also claims sketching ability didn't work either for me Jul 25 20:51:19 i just re tared up some files and I can't untar them on the N800 Jul 25 20:54:33 Is there a biggest and/or best repository to be working with for the 770? Jul 25 20:55:21 * GreySim might've chosen some poor repositorys to start with. Jul 25 20:56:28 GreySim: i'd contact the porter directly Jul 25 20:58:20 Hmm. Well, thanks all. Jul 25 20:58:52 unique311: can you test super mario war? Jul 25 20:59:01 i have an unstable tablet here Jul 25 20:59:04 yeah send it Jul 25 20:59:15 how did you compile it. Jul 25 20:59:27 my scratchbox is definitely screwed Jul 25 20:59:32 ./configure && make Jul 25 20:59:38 come on.. Jul 25 20:59:42 man Jul 25 20:59:59 upload it and send link Jul 25 21:00:20 how big is it? Jul 25 21:00:35 9.9 MB total Jul 25 21:00:40 not bad Jul 25 21:00:57 if it works, that'll be awesome Jul 25 21:00:58 mine seems to crash while loading Jul 25 21:02:03 does it run on scratchbox? Jul 25 21:02:42 or is it crashing on scratchbox Jul 25 21:02:45 IN* Jul 25 21:04:48 "Super Mario War" is http://pupnik.de/smw-data-min_1.7.8_all.deb and http://pupnik.de/smw-bin_1.7-8_armel.deb Jul 25 21:05:10 oop Jul 25 21:05:18 _Monkey: forget "Super Mario War" Jul 25 21:05:19 <_Monkey> pupnik: I forgot "super mario war" Jul 25 21:05:39 "Super Mario War" is http://pupnik.de/smw-data-min_1.7-8_all.deb and http://pupnik.de/smw-bin_1.7-8_armel.deb Jul 25 21:05:42 i got bin Jul 25 21:05:52 but data not found for the first one Jul 25 21:06:10 nvm Jul 25 21:06:11 _1.7-8_all Jul 25 21:06:12 got it Jul 25 21:06:52 i have to get multiboot going here, it2007he is killin me Jul 25 21:09:13 this is really well done Jul 25 21:09:34 pupnik: so acmonitor doesn't work on it2007? Jul 25 21:09:42 or just it2007he? Jul 25 21:09:54 cause I installed and it doesn't seem to do much of anything :> Jul 25 21:10:01 acmonitor for n800 works on n800, acmonitor for 770 works on 2006 and 2007he Jul 25 21:10:32 ah right, hm. I'm fairly sure I download the n800 one... Jul 25 21:11:00 I'll redownload and reinstall once I'm in wifi range again Jul 25 21:11:21 my current crusade will be patching the wifi drivers to enable packet injection Jul 25 21:11:27 the hardware should support it Jul 25 21:11:50 any luck unique311 ? Jul 25 21:12:03 runs fine in scratchbox - just hands while loading on 770 / it2007he Jul 25 21:13:41 empty map directory Jul 25 21:13:48 guess i need to dl maps Jul 25 21:15:51 i didn't - just kept hitting enter Jul 25 21:15:55 it works Jul 25 21:15:57 wow Jul 25 21:16:05 wow Jul 25 21:16:07 is there sound? Jul 25 21:16:07 fullscreen Jul 25 21:16:12 yeah Jul 25 21:16:30 yes Jul 25 21:16:43 need to test the buttons Jul 25 21:16:48 hopefully they work Jul 25 21:19:47 nice Jul 25 21:19:50 very nice Jul 25 21:20:07 you can just package it up pupnick and place it on the repo Jul 25 21:20:37 fast Jul 25 21:20:49 that's a huge find unique311 Jul 25 21:21:26 is there vs via internet? Jul 25 21:21:27 yeah Jul 25 21:21:33 it is a good game Jul 25 21:21:41 playing it Jul 25 21:21:43 its fast Jul 25 21:21:50 sound works Jul 25 21:21:55 controls work Jul 25 21:22:03 let me check net play Jul 25 21:22:51 video anybody? Jul 25 21:23:22 ? Jul 25 21:23:41 thats why its fast Jul 25 21:23:46 framerate at 62 Jul 25 21:23:48 on normal Jul 25 21:24:05 40 is good right Jul 25 21:24:47 i'll have to do something about /usr/share/smw though Jul 25 21:25:10 the games works nicely. Jul 25 21:25:16 not finding network options Jul 25 21:25:19 still looking Jul 25 21:27:14 i don't think they have it Jul 25 21:28:03 hmm Jul 25 21:28:05 they don't Jul 25 21:29:01 actually a 4 player game option Jul 25 21:29:30 is that super mario war? Jul 25 21:29:43 yes Jul 25 21:29:53 cooool Jul 25 21:29:53 i think they have the option pupnik Jul 25 21:29:59 lemme know when it's all pacakged up Jul 25 21:30:09 "Super Mario War"? Jul 25 21:30:10 <_Monkey> hmmm... "Super Mario War" is http://pupnik.de/smw-data-min_1.7-8_all.deb and http://pupnik.de/smw-bin_1.7-8_armel.deb Jul 25 21:30:18 pupnik, is there a nice tutorial for packaing for the N800 Jul 25 21:30:21 world Jul 25 21:30:50 i just tried the world option....and it gave error reading world file.. Jul 25 21:31:25 think that file need to be edit Jul 25 21:31:49 might be the file needed for netplay Jul 25 21:32:55 is there a way to run maemo on the sharp zaurus? Jul 25 21:58:16 evening maemo Jul 25 21:58:24 moo Jul 25 21:58:41 Figured out the problem with Xournal. I needed to update the maemo.org repos from the mistral ones mentioned to the actual current gregale ones. Then Xournal installed just fine. Jul 25 22:00:26 aha Jul 25 22:00:49 so you changed all mistral to gregale, or added new ones for gregale? Jul 25 22:01:17 the mistral repos seem to be broken Jul 25 22:02:11 Changed. Jul 25 22:04:39 Is it possible to manually set your IP after connecting to a wifi AP? Jul 25 22:04:39 hah "unable to install osso-xterm" Jul 25 22:04:49 heh Jul 25 22:05:39 pupnik, smw compiled for you with no errors? Jul 25 22:05:49 i think you can from the shell with ifconfig - not sure though - you can also set up another connection profile with manual ip Jul 25 22:06:03 yes Jul 25 22:07:53 Hmm. Not seeing any manual IP options anywhere. Jul 25 22:08:17 Though I can just try ifconfig I guess. Jul 25 22:08:51 go into control panel -> connection manager and create a new connection for wlan Jul 25 22:10:23 Ah. Completely failed to see the Connections button in Connectivity before. Oops. >.< Jul 25 22:10:24 Thanks. Jul 25 22:11:18 Oh good, I can even hide the network now if I ever get my router fixed. Thanks doubly. :) Jul 25 22:11:46 np Jul 25 22:14:18 button mapping works in game Jul 25 22:20:03 MDK: Yeah, My ejabberd still wont auth to gmail.com Jul 25 22:20:12 MDK: think i best switch to jabberd Jul 25 22:21:07 743386 Dec 4 2006 hildon_home_bg_user.png Jul 25 22:21:09 sheesh. Jul 25 22:21:39 plus the 8 MB of stuff in MyDocs Jul 25 22:21:50 plus about 12MB of themes you can free up Jul 25 22:22:06 /dev/mtdblock4 126464 52908 73556 42% / Jul 25 22:22:45 i found MyDocs and userdocs there in particulary very funny. Jul 25 22:23:24 i dont remember the filesize but atleast last time i checked there is some userdoc pdf with enGB and enUS Jul 25 22:23:45 where is userdocs? Jul 25 22:23:49 teh funney part is that enUS is double the size of enGB Jul 25 22:24:41 /usr/share/osso-help ? Jul 25 22:25:14 i guess it should be somewhere under /home/user/MyDocs/.user-docs or .. or im talking about something thats not out yet. Jul 25 22:26:46 that's empty here Jul 25 22:26:54 /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/ Jul 25 22:27:59 something under there ? Jul 25 22:28:08 under .documents/ ? Jul 25 22:28:13 no Jul 25 22:28:24 ok, then those are not released yet. "uups" Jul 25 22:29:08 :) Jul 25 22:29:45 * sp3000 dispatches the MiBs Jul 25 22:30:17 anyone know what the bluetooth service is that uses a phone as a modem? Jul 25 22:32:26 iik! dont talk about mibs Jul 25 22:33:36 dun? Jul 25 22:34:00 cool, i just fixed a corrupt /var/lib/dpkg/status by hand :) Jul 25 22:34:08 hoo*ray for textfiles Jul 25 22:36:15 unique311: do you have a keymap for smw? Jul 25 22:36:41 no...i'm looking for config files.. Jul 25 22:37:05 i only see one..not sure if its the keymap Jul 25 22:37:42 located in /home/user/.smw.options.bin Jul 25 22:42:24 no net play Jul 25 22:44:04 pupnik, http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/viewtopic.php?t=2284 Jul 25 22:46:58 ok Jul 25 22:47:42 i get to 'press any key to continue' in the startup screen and then it hangs on me Jul 25 22:51:23 :( Jul 25 22:53:20 i just press an one of the arrow keys and it goes to the menu section Jul 25 22:53:48 maybe you should try my .bin file Jul 25 22:54:58 couldn't hurt Jul 25 22:55:32 I'll show you my .bin if you show me yours. Jul 25 22:57:26 still no luck on this tar Jul 25 22:57:29 grrrr Jul 25 22:57:35 i tarred it up in linux Jul 25 22:57:46 a normal .tar.gz Jul 25 22:57:52 but it won;t untar it Jul 25 22:58:00 tar: invalid tar magic Jul 25 22:58:41 http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/familiar/197/19716.html Jul 25 22:58:42 heh Jul 25 23:00:27 looks like its a common issue Jul 25 23:02:10 http://www.divshare.com/download/1370695-0e3 Jul 25 23:02:21 http://www.divshare.com/download/1370695-0e3 Jul 25 23:02:33 i just have no idea how to transfer the gtkdoc library now Jul 25 23:02:40 just remove the .tar from the end and add . in the front Jul 25 23:02:49 hope that makes sense Jul 25 23:02:50 eh? Jul 25 23:02:56 something.tar.gz becomes? Jul 25 23:03:01 no Jul 25 23:03:04 not you Jul 25 23:03:05 sorry Jul 25 23:03:08 ah Jul 25 23:03:09 hehe Jul 25 23:03:12 damn Jul 25 23:03:20 thought it was an easy fix for my problem Jul 25 23:03:23 sorry unique311 Jul 25 23:03:44 pupnik remove the .tar from the end of the file, and add a . in the front. Jul 25 23:05:20 http://www.divshare.com/download/1370714-c62 Jul 25 23:05:24 hmmm Jul 25 23:05:30 nvm the first link pupnik Jul 25 23:05:53 thansk Jul 25 23:06:04 with this link http://www.divshare.com/download/1370714-c62 unrar it Jul 25 23:06:18 rename it and add . in front Jul 25 23:06:37 so it looks like so .smw.options.bin Jul 25 23:09:02 feck Jul 25 23:09:10 pupnik http://www.divshare.com/download/1370742-ec3 Jul 25 23:09:26 no need to rename anything..just unrar in /home/user/ Jul 25 23:16:23 grrr Jul 25 23:16:30 now it's just lost my mmc2 card Jul 25 23:16:34 saying there's nothing on it Jul 25 23:16:39 rebooting Jul 25 23:16:47 tried to save a 9Mb file from the net onto it Jul 25 23:16:52 shouldn't be a problem should it Jul 25 23:19:44 ok Jul 25 23:19:47 it'll untar Jul 25 23:19:55 as long as it isn't compressed at all Jul 25 23:20:00 what are you trying to do? Jul 25 23:20:29 ust tar up a load of files Jul 25 23:20:34 transfer and untar Jul 25 23:20:41 9Mb of gtkdoc files Jul 25 23:20:55 if i tar up with the GUI in gnome it fails Jul 25 23:20:58 tar xvzf don't work Jul 25 23:21:20 if I tar like this - tar czf test.tar.gz gtkdoc/ Jul 25 23:21:31 i get a 900K file Jul 25 23:21:34 which won't untar Jul 25 23:21:36 however Jul 25 23:21:39 if I tar like this - tar cf test.tar.gz gtkdoc/ Jul 25 23:21:41 works Jul 25 23:21:46 though it's a 9Mb file Jul 25 23:21:50 nevermind it works Jul 25 23:21:59 i use ubuntu.. Jul 25 23:22:31 me too Jul 25 23:22:33 right click and extract all works Jul 25 23:22:43 where's pupnik Jul 25 23:22:43 <_Monkey> i guess pupnik is guessing that you need a full version of tar and not the busybox version Jul 25 23:22:44 ok the n800? Jul 25 23:22:44 <_Monkey> the n800 is probably much better than a desk phone :-) Jul 25 23:22:48 anywas Jul 25 23:22:50 nevermind Jul 25 23:22:54 igot the files i need Jul 25 23:22:57 bbtomorrow Jul 25 23:23:08 pupnik Jul 25 23:23:15 monkey is a bot Jul 25 23:23:20 where's pupnik Jul 25 23:23:21 <_Monkey> pupnik is guessing that you need a full version of tar and not the busybox version Jul 25 23:23:31 ok Jul 25 23:41:03 guys..just bought an 8gb A-Data SDHC..popped it in my n800 with the latest firmware (should support SDHC), but checked on the control panel, only 690mb is available..what gives? Jul 25 23:54:07 hahaha Jul 25 23:54:23 working? Jul 25 23:54:28 no Jul 25 23:54:40 what happen to you.. Jul 25 23:54:44 has anyone had this problem? Jul 25 23:54:51 i have better news.. Jul 25 23:55:11 you need to check this one out. maybe better than smw Jul 25 23:55:33 what Jul 25 23:56:18 http://www.secretmaryo.org/index.php?page=game_downloads&sid= Jul 25 23:56:22 smc Jul 25 23:56:47 btw that SDL file your were missing belongs to libsdl-mixer1.2=dev, i think Jul 25 23:56:57 i installed it.. Jul 25 23:57:02 oh Jul 25 23:57:18 but SDL_mixer.h is still MIA Jul 25 23:57:30 going to reinstall scratchbox.. Jul 25 23:57:45 and try my hands at maryo chronicles.. Jul 26 00:03:16 the minimum system requirements look too high Jul 26 00:03:48 http://www.secretmaryo.org/index.php?page=about&sid=sid=d71b206ef66160c1e135cf73d5779e2e Jul 26 00:13:26 hmmm Jul 26 00:14:47 anyone have a few minutes to spare? Jul 26 00:15:45 i'm having problems with my home and power buttons... Jul 26 00:16:57 instead of bringing up a menu, my device just turs off, or i'm dropped to the home screen in the case of the home button Jul 26 00:17:18 i have tried editing mce.ini to no avail Jul 26 00:26:40 i don't know this problem tinix Jul 26 00:27:43 no go with smc...sucks...the screenshots look real good Jul 26 00:27:56 if i remove mce.ini, this behavior is just like that. i think i may have corrupted my file :S Jul 26 00:28:04 pupnik...it was ported to the gp32x Jul 26 00:28:13 source file available.. Jul 26 00:28:21 there must be a way to disable opengl then Jul 26 00:28:35 version .97 Jul 26 00:28:38 pre .98 Jul 26 00:28:52 as of .98 opengl was introduce to it. Jul 26 00:28:57 pre .98 sdl Jul 26 00:28:58 aha Jul 26 00:29:07 can anyone dcc me their /etc/mce.ini and /etc/systemui/systemui.xml files? Jul 26 00:29:19 pretty sure 99 has an option in the .configure Jul 26 00:30:04 tinix: my nokia is not working right now sorry Jul 26 00:30:04 if you go to the gp32x site...you can find the source. Jul 26 00:30:21 i'll send you them tinix..but i have to look em over Jul 26 00:30:22 pupnik, thanks anyway... Jul 26 00:30:24 tinix: it would help if you speficied your operating system version Jul 26 00:30:43 the newest one... hold on Jul 26 00:31:05 softpoweroff wprked fine in the last one Jul 26 00:31:39 ~ $ uname -a Jul 26 00:31:43 gr Jul 26 00:31:58 Linux Nokia-N800-26 2.6.18-omap1 #2 Wed Jun 13 11:37:40 EEST 2007 armv6l unknown Jul 26 00:32:22 k, i don't have /etc/mce.ini Jul 26 00:32:28 i do have the xml file Jul 26 00:32:31 you want it Jul 26 00:32:35 /etc/mce/mce.ini Jul 26 00:32:41 my mistake Jul 26 00:32:43 ok Jul 26 00:32:47 hold on Jul 26 00:32:54 thanks :) Jul 26 00:33:58 i'm away from home, didn't bring my laptop, or else i'd reflash... again. Jul 26 00:38:43 http://www.divshare.com/download/1371313-782 Jul 26 00:38:50 tinix, Jul 26 00:39:33 thanks, unique311 i'll let you know if it works Jul 26 00:41:28 np Jul 26 00:52:37 i owe you my first-born unique311 Jul 26 00:52:57 :) Jul 26 00:54:11 danm Jul 26 00:54:20 thats deep man.. Jul 26 00:54:26 hah Jul 26 00:54:28 if i was the devil you would be screwed Jul 26 00:54:35 lies Jul 26 00:55:02 to the devil thats a deal Jul 26 00:55:22 too bad i don't believe in the devil :P Jul 26 00:55:44 i guess you would have to believe, huh Jul 26 00:55:52 thats how those things work.... Jul 26 00:55:55 pssh Jul 26 00:56:42 you know alot about the subject, eh? how would i go about trading souls with someone? Jul 26 00:57:30 i don't know about such things.. Jul 26 00:57:44 but you just said... Jul 26 00:57:51 religion don't play a big part in my life.. Jul 26 00:57:56 LIES AND SLANDER Jul 26 00:58:02 :p Jul 26 00:58:11 when i do tell people what i believe in they tend to laugh... Jul 26 00:58:17 not lies and slander.. Jul 26 00:58:23 let's hear it Jul 26 00:58:52 i alway tend to go off topic in this channel.. Jul 26 00:59:03 heh Jul 26 00:59:13 not sure i should try to explain what i believe in on maemo.. Jul 26 00:59:20 might get the boot Jul 26 01:00:41 pupnik, thanks for the mario war port... Jul 26 01:01:08 konttori, thanks for the UKMP update... Jul 26 01:03:49 (now fix the 12 albums to scroll bug) Jul 26 01:03:52 :) Jul 26 01:05:38 anyone know how if flickr is being implemented into the camera app? there is a flickr line in the config file Jul 26 01:10:39 got to sleep -cheers Jul 26 01:11:17 lates man Jul 26 01:11:20 n8 Jul 26 01:40:20 I'm starting to hate apt just as much as timeless does Jul 26 01:40:25 http://pastebin.com/d5598df24 Jul 26 01:40:29 This is xmlto, a virtually generated package. Functionality of this package Jul 26 01:40:34 is provided by Scratchbox. Jul 26 01:40:38 NO IT'S NOT Jul 26 02:08:48 hello folks Jul 26 02:09:46 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK Jul 26 02:09:57 (nobody minds profanity, right?) Jul 26 02:10:28 I need a package Jul 26 02:10:32 which needs glib Jul 26 02:10:37 but the bora one is too old Jul 26 02:10:46 I get the source package Jul 26 02:10:58 which needs gnome-pkg-tools Jul 26 02:11:04 but the bora version is too old Jul 26 02:11:11 I get the source package Jul 26 02:11:18 which can't find 'xmlto' Jul 26 02:11:45 after a lot of hassle, it turns out scratchbox didn't install the doctools devkit correctly Jul 26 02:12:13 (in SDK_X86, xmlto is there and works, on armel IT'S NOT) Jul 26 02:12:20 fix that Jul 26 02:12:26 rinse and repeat Jul 26 02:12:36 still errors Jul 26 02:12:40 goddamn Jul 26 02:13:33 I'm not supposed to waste my nights on this, I just need glib Jul 26 02:14:07 what are you doing, fro1? Jul 26 02:14:16 porting telepathy-salut Jul 26 02:14:50 while my friends are getting drunk and humping the living shit out of their girlfriends at the beach Jul 26 02:16:06 even mamona and openembedded don't have a recent glib2 Jul 26 02:16:40 and I'm not saying recent as in "last week" and as a months old release Jul 26 02:16:46 s/and/but/ Jul 26 02:16:46 fro1 meant: but I'm not saying recent as in "last week" and as a months old release Jul 26 02:16:58 s/and/but/2 Jul 26 02:17:04 whatever... Jul 26 02:17:11 what is telepathy-salut? Jul 26 02:17:14 voip, right? Jul 26 02:17:18 nope Jul 26 02:17:28 link-local connection manager Jul 26 02:17:58 "iChat+Bonjour"-style chat over the LAN Jul 26 02:18:06 what the hell is that? Jul 26 02:18:09 ahh Jul 26 02:18:18 IM Jul 26 02:18:22 nice =-) Jul 26 02:18:27 no Jul 26 02:18:29 it's not Jul 26 02:18:47 at least, it is, unless you're trying to build it Jul 26 02:18:47 whats the diference? Jul 26 02:19:06 difference between salut and what ? Jul 26 02:19:10 (not mesmerizing...Im really asking) Jul 26 02:19:14 salut and a IM Jul 26 02:19:24 it IS an im system Jul 26 02:19:32 without a centralized server Jul 26 02:19:45 it just lists whoever is on your same LAN Jul 26 02:20:11 and you can chat with him, share files, video, and more in the future Jul 26 02:20:14 oh.. I see Jul 26 02:20:33 like those sms chats from old Series 30 phones Jul 26 02:20:39 no idea Jul 26 02:20:43 never had a nokia Jul 26 02:21:22 =-O Jul 26 02:21:26 but a friend of mine could do a similar thing with the 6630 (or whatever that was) with bluetooth Jul 26 02:21:27 hehehhe Jul 26 02:21:41 those are way before BT Jul 26 02:21:55 BW phones Jul 26 02:22:35 anyway Jul 26 02:22:40 where are you from, fro1? Jul 26 02:23:13 AAAAAAAAARGH Jul 26 02:23:22 I wasted all this time for NOTHING Jul 26 02:23:35 relaaaaax Jul 26 02:23:38 Chinook has an up-to-date glib Jul 26 02:23:43 take a deep breath... Jul 26 02:23:45 and I found out just now Jul 26 02:23:49 at 4am Jul 26 02:24:10 you should be sleeping... Jul 26 02:24:10 NeoStrider: I have an internet connection only from 11pm to 6am every day Jul 26 02:24:18 i see Jul 26 02:24:28 so I can't afford wasting time like that Jul 26 02:24:50 i once had that...(ok...it was 5 years ago , but I understand you) Jul 26 02:24:51 if I had just upgraded to chinook earlier... Jul 26 02:25:14 the problem is that probably I won't be able to run the damn thing on the device that Jul 26 02:25:16 *then Jul 26 02:25:28 therefore it's.. utterly useless Jul 26 02:25:37 but still, it's the only thing I can do now Jul 26 02:25:43 so Jul 26 02:25:49 to upgrade or not to upgrade? Jul 26 02:25:55 and the SDK is not complete yet, anyway Jul 26 02:25:56 NeoStrider: your choice Jul 26 02:26:04 I now, but I need those packages Jul 26 02:26:08 I know nothing from gregalle and on Jul 26 02:26:19 and Im only a game developer Jul 26 02:26:27 the underlying layer is not my business Jul 26 02:26:40 the problem is that if I break scratchbox, I'm quite screwed Jul 26 02:26:44 I just need SDL working correctly and consistently (and that sometimes fail) Jul 26 02:26:50 cool Jul 26 02:26:54 I had this case before Jul 26 02:26:59 just copy your SBOX Jul 26 02:27:06 and if you screw it, restore the copy Jul 26 02:27:10 'no space left on device' Jul 26 02:27:31 worked for me when I tried to install gregalle and it didnt worked ...I restored my mistral SDL just fine Jul 26 02:27:44 ok..now you'r f*cked up Jul 26 02:27:49 no CD recorder? Jul 26 02:27:56 no CDs :P Jul 26 02:28:01 pendrives? Jul 26 02:28:10 not that big Jul 26 02:28:27 how big? Jul 26 02:28:49 got an old mp3 player, 128Mb, scrathbox takes _gigabytes_ Jul 26 02:29:28 mine is only 1.1 gb Jul 26 02:29:46 and I've got a 1 GB pendrive...so, maybe it could work... Jul 26 02:30:15 and of course...you can always clean up the house erasing the old .tgz from the rootstraps Jul 26 02:31:05 mmm Jul 26 02:31:09 maybe I'm safe Jul 26 02:31:45 the chinook targets are called SDK_ALPHA_ARMEL and SDK_ALPHA_X86 Jul 26 02:31:48 erase all that pr0n and maybe will there be "space on device" =-P Jul 26 02:31:53 hummmm Jul 26 02:31:57 lucky heheh Jul 26 02:32:03 they won't overwrite the old ones Jul 26 02:32:18 but and rootstraps wont clash? Jul 26 02:32:23 and the glib thing? Jul 26 02:33:30 the new rootstraps wont overwrite the old one's glib? Jul 26 02:34:32 we'll promptly find out Jul 26 02:34:44 I have no other option anyway Jul 26 02:36:29 "770: thats when your fading out routing of your game looks good on your desktop but not on the device" (R) Jul 26 02:36:49 ("fading out routine", not "routing") Jul 26 02:36:53 mm? Jul 26 02:36:54 ah Jul 26 02:37:06 a game im debugging on the 770 right now Jul 26 02:37:20 on the desktop, the fading out effect looked great Jul 26 02:37:26 on the 770 is jerky Jul 26 02:38:06 I superstimated the polygon blitting speed Jul 26 02:39:44 and I overestimated the time it would take to build a *gnome-based* package on a *gnome-based* distribution Jul 26 02:39:57 s/overestimated/underestimated/ Jul 26 02:39:57 fro1 meant: and I underestimated the time it would take to build a *gnome-based* package on a *gnome-based* distribution Jul 26 02:40:41 cool stuff heheh Jul 26 02:41:03 no at all Jul 26 02:41:12 about the package...the fact is or isnt a gnome-based distro doesnt interfere with the speed Jul 26 02:41:13 going on vacation would be 'cool stuff' Jul 26 02:41:17 (cool "infobot") Jul 26 02:41:39 I'm not talking about your package Jul 26 02:42:20 but im talking about yours Jul 26 02:42:29 ok Jul 26 02:42:36 (ok, my english is not good, but I guess I was clear) Jul 26 02:42:41 it's almost 5am Jul 26 02:42:47 it's my brain which is rotten Jul 26 02:42:47 get some sleep Jul 26 02:42:51 can't Jul 26 02:42:53 I can understand you Jul 26 02:43:05 been in that situation before... Jul 26 02:43:18 is that a work assignment? Jul 26 02:43:28 more or les Jul 26 02:43:29 or a college one? Jul 26 02:43:30 *less Jul 26 02:43:44 oh no, I wish we did this kind of stuff at college Jul 26 02:44:34 got chinook already? Jul 26 02:44:42 dooooooooooooooooownloading Jul 26 02:44:44 slooooooooooooooowly Jul 26 02:44:50 dial up? Jul 26 02:45:08 DSL, capped at 64k Jul 26 02:45:10 err Jul 26 02:45:13 640k Jul 26 02:45:21 kb/s? Jul 26 02:45:34 bits Jul 26 02:45:46 but what is the current download speed? Jul 26 02:45:59 ~70K/s Jul 26 02:46:02 hahha Jul 26 02:46:08 you're lucky Jul 26 02:46:13 you bet Jul 26 02:46:16 mine cable is 250K Jul 26 02:46:23 there's NOBODY online right now Jul 26 02:46:29 and the fastest download I get is 30kb/s Jul 26 02:46:45 but you don't have to login at night, I guess Jul 26 02:46:46 it took me weeks to download the gregalle stuff Jul 26 02:48:08 sure I dont have any assignment Jul 26 02:48:14 and do this for my pure pleasure Jul 26 02:48:21 but sometimes is frustating Jul 26 02:48:34 becouse I have just a couple of hours to work on my games Jul 26 02:49:07 but you live in fucking brazil, go to the beach or something :P Jul 26 02:50:20 its not that easy Jul 26 02:50:37 I have to pave my way to a good future Jul 26 02:50:59 going to beach every day will just pave my way to the dumpster Jul 26 02:51:20 italia? Jul 26 02:51:20 heh, I haven't taken a day off in three years Jul 26 02:51:29 and I live in front of the sea Jul 26 02:51:33 yes, unfortunately Jul 26 02:51:59 ok...im not that extreme...but Im working for about a year and a half , without vacation, and I too, live in front of the sea Jul 26 02:52:27 I have a sailboat and a beach house...and I never go into neither Jul 26 02:52:32 argh Jul 26 02:52:42 (I would rather be in italia than Brazil...) Jul 26 02:52:50 oh no Jul 26 02:52:53 you wouldn't Jul 26 02:53:02 pick anywhere else Jul 26 02:53:18 but not italy Jul 26 02:53:43 even if italy sucks...it is in europe...you can easily go anywhere else Jul 26 02:53:52 im basicly stuck with what? latin america? Jul 26 02:54:03 sure, if you have the money you can go anywhere Jul 26 02:54:08 I like brazil...but sometimes it just sucks Jul 26 02:54:23 in Brazil, not even with money you can go anywhere Jul 26 02:55:13 the lines in the airports ,currently, takes about 20 hours Jul 26 02:55:23 a plane even crashed last week Jul 26 02:55:25 it seems everybody just complains about what he has Jul 26 02:55:30 airports in Brazil are just pure chaos Jul 26 02:55:31 yeah, heard about that Jul 26 02:55:31 <_Monkey> NeoStrider: That doesn't look right. Try 'airport code for CITY' or 'airport name for CODE' instead. Jul 26 02:55:43 freaking bots... Jul 26 02:55:49 hahhahahah Jul 26 02:56:36 still Jul 26 02:56:42 hey...wanna relax playing a game? Jul 26 02:56:47 ah no Jul 26 02:56:53 haven't touched a game in years Jul 26 02:56:57 ok... Jul 26 02:57:07 thanks, but they're not my thing Jul 26 02:57:17 ok... Jul 26 02:57:32 I tend to lose, and when I lose I get nervous Jul 26 02:57:48 (as when I can't get some damn software to build) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 26 02:59:56 2007