**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 17 02:59:56 2007 Aug 17 03:12:10 Well, 4 Kagu 1.0.6 milestone bugs fixed tonight. I'm gonna go play some games as a reward. https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/query?status=closed&milestone=1.0.6 Aug 17 03:16:24 you = the guy behind Kagu? Aug 17 03:16:35 yeah Aug 17 03:16:41 Brilliant work Aug 17 03:16:47 one of 'em. the original author anyway. Aug 17 03:16:51 thanks! Aug 17 03:16:52 If I could get python2.5 installed on my 770 I'd use it, haha Aug 17 03:17:14 lol Aug 17 03:17:20 Oddly difficult, that. Aug 17 03:17:26 1.0.5 doesn't work on the 770 anyway. Aug 17 03:17:33 boo! hiss! Aug 17 03:17:49 The SVN version works on the 770. We just got a guy (sparr) to help us debug it today. Aug 17 03:18:02 I'll keep an eye out on the thread for it :) Aug 17 03:18:05 I don't own a 770.... so... Aug 17 03:18:10 Though again, python2.5. fuck. Aug 17 03:18:25 Yeah. 1.0.6 will support the 770 *and* OGG, thanks the sparr. Aug 17 03:19:10 It'll also have enqueue mode, a ton of fixes, and album art zoom in functionality. Aug 17 03:19:30 Sounds like with that version I'm going to have to revisit installing it Aug 17 03:20:11 Look for it on Monday morning. We try to release late Sunday every week. You can see the milestone progress here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/roadmap Aug 17 03:20:25 great! Aug 17 03:26:25 OMG... this is nasty... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBJKsRPR3ow Aug 17 03:26:35 My brother in law sent me that. Aug 17 03:32:52 Thanks trevarthan, this is the kind of think you want to see starting to work at 6am... Aug 17 03:36:11 hmm. I should look into a podcast client. be nice to get video podcasts. Aug 17 03:39:39 np. anytime. Aug 17 03:42:00 I'm giving a try to pidgin. Can someone write 'qgil' now and then in, say, 10 minutes please? I want to try the ping sound while having the window in focus, with the screen on and off. Thanks! Aug 17 03:46:27 qgil! Aug 17 03:46:48 That worked well ;) Aug 17 03:48:32 qgil Aug 17 03:51:17 well I'll be. no video podcast support. Aug 17 03:53:20 what BT devices have people hooked up to the IT (other than keyboard and gps)? Aug 17 03:53:36 anyone done anything odd? Aug 17 03:54:12 just those two here. Aug 17 03:54:48 and phone of course :-) Aug 17 03:56:30 gamepad Aug 17 03:56:35 bgp100 Aug 17 03:57:30 does it work well? Aug 17 03:57:56 I worked ok Aug 17 03:58:25 not really supported anywhere, I got a hacked kbbd, stil works but no source Aug 17 03:58:25 770 or n800? Aug 17 03:58:30 both Aug 17 03:58:41 I no longer have 770 though Aug 17 03:59:09 really. that may be worthwhile. Aug 17 04:00:17 It would be nice if someone would actively suppport a bt gamepad Aug 17 04:00:35 What are you playing on your 800? Aug 17 04:00:51 was playing around with quake 2 Aug 17 04:00:52 hehe Aug 17 04:01:01 lots of mame Aug 17 04:01:07 It's got that much horsepower? Aug 17 04:01:10 time pilot is fun Aug 17 04:01:10 i saw mame went main repo Aug 17 04:01:17 Is that 770 compat? Aug 17 04:01:29 quake 2, not really but it does play Aug 17 04:01:40 mame works great Aug 17 04:01:55 hmm. I'm using ScummVM currently. Aug 17 04:02:13 I been playing pacman, joust Aug 17 04:02:36 tetris, break out Aug 17 04:03:30 I'd love to see Quake 1 Aug 17 04:03:42 me to, with quakeworld client Aug 17 04:03:47 ah, that would be awesome Aug 17 04:03:58 some gamespy applet Aug 17 04:04:00 hehe Aug 17 04:04:40 ctf online on IT would be sweet, and should run decent Aug 17 04:06:06 ooh, next version of Canola should have podcast downloading. Aug 17 04:11:18 and here it is, my battery powered USB hub: http://a.aa.am:9980/wiki/images/PIC-0078.jpg http://a.aa.am:9980/wiki/images/PIC-0079.jpg Aug 17 04:11:53 ugly as all hell, but it'll do Aug 17 04:13:34 omg did you cook it in an oven? Aug 17 04:13:44 lol Aug 17 04:14:05 those pics scream easy bake Aug 17 04:14:13 ;-) Aug 17 04:14:14 used a soldering iron to melt the plastic. enclosed all wires, etc that way. Aug 17 04:14:52 how did you regulate the voltage ? Aug 17 04:15:19 5v zener Aug 17 04:18:08 yay got my bt keyboard out Aug 17 04:18:44 can you access the circuitry after the melt job? Aug 17 04:19:06 somebody was talking about dns tunneling earlier Aug 17 04:19:15 not so much. I CAN, but its not going to be quick Aug 17 04:19:37 got me reading around and found this http://nulldigital.net/blog/view.php?id=41 , icmp tunneling for the same (nefarious) purposes Aug 17 04:19:40 gogol I think it was sully..and I mentioned I was going to give it a go in a bit Aug 17 04:19:54 Can you ping 'qgil' in 10 minutes please? Testing pidgin. Thanks Aug 17 04:20:26 I'm just going to add a note to that thread to encourage the item again :) Aug 17 04:20:31 qgil i will Aug 17 04:20:36 crap that reminds me Aug 17 04:20:47 offhand, if I install mplayer should I get .mov/.m4v support? Aug 17 04:21:02 i meant to read the arrl book for the ham test Aug 17 04:21:22 like libs? or in mplayer? i think it plays those Aug 17 04:21:45 I'm sure mplayer does. I guess I was wondering if Canola would display it Aug 17 04:21:46 * gogol stops talking Aug 17 04:22:06 i begged and pleaded Aug 17 04:22:18 couldnt get canola to stream _any_ video Aug 17 04:22:27 hah Aug 17 04:22:29 but i have no mmc yet Aug 17 04:22:54 um... computers usually respond to changing settings and stuff, but im sure the pleading was cathartic Aug 17 04:23:02 ha Aug 17 04:23:26 (yes, j/k) Aug 17 04:23:50 im now on a keyboard connected to pc via usbA usbA cable connected to my hub w/o batteries. Aug 17 04:24:01 si it still work :-) Aug 17 04:24:28 err..it still works* Aug 17 04:24:42 Darksmurf, now get it running with an n800 Aug 17 04:25:08 oh is that tcp over dns? Aug 17 04:25:21 Luria heh... give me an n800 and I'll try :-) Aug 17 04:25:38 i mean icmp Aug 17 04:25:42 never mind Aug 17 04:27:32 just don't expect much Aug 17 04:41:49 gogol, wait 10 minutes more since i woke up the screen to check if anybody had sent a 'qgil' ping ;) Aug 17 04:42:10 Thx Aug 17 04:42:20 shit sorry a friend showed up Aug 17 04:42:21 agh Aug 17 04:42:26 * gogol kicks self Aug 17 04:44:36 * Darksmurf can't find a 7805...I know I've got some around here somewhere... Aug 17 04:47:02 hmm...I guess I can get one from work tomarrow Aug 17 04:50:46 i wish abiword were stable on the n800 Aug 17 04:51:37 anyone have any thoughts on the iT app that is designed for note taking w/ the stylus? Supposed to be kinda like MS' oneNote? Aug 17 04:52:48 which one? xournal? Aug 17 04:53:19 and yet another random thought.. for those w/ 770's...why worry about 2gb+ RC-MMC cards? USB Flash+9v battery = 1,2,4,8+gb of flash (granted, not as easy to carry) Aug 17 04:54:28 cause youve just changed the form factor which kinda defeats the purpose of a 770 Aug 17 04:55:09 true Aug 17 04:55:22 Darksmurf, which note app did you mean? Aug 17 04:55:39 Luria I'm not sure of the app name..gimme a min I'll see if I can find it Aug 17 04:56:36 cause it sounds a bit like xournal, but if there is something else i'd love to know. Aug 17 04:57:45 I remember seeing xournal, but I thought there was an iT native app (i.e. not a port) Maybe I'm mistaken Aug 17 05:04:41 don't remember? Aug 17 05:05:06 wow big ping.......... Aug 17 05:05:18 Maemopad+ Aug 17 05:05:34 not quite what I remember, I think xournal is more of what I'm after Aug 17 05:05:43 ar, cant page qgil im not registered on freenode anymore Aug 17 05:05:48 somebody? Aug 17 05:06:30 It works! Thanks gogol|afk Aug 17 05:06:40 ah it did, good Aug 17 05:06:50 off to have some beers, gn all Aug 17 05:06:58 xournal rocks Aug 17 05:09:08 Luria I'm supposed to get my 770 Friday, but I'm not counting on it. Any gotta have apps? Of course xterm, etc. Aug 17 05:09:52 im on the n800, but Aug 17 05:09:58 for me... Aug 17 05:10:49 xournal, xchat, scite, claws mail Aug 17 05:11:59 vnc, rdesktop, wordpy (if you blog). cli, you need nmap, wget, vim and openssh Aug 17 05:12:19 oh and nethack :) Aug 17 05:12:44 I usually use nano. Never got the hang of vim. Openssh is a must. Aug 17 05:12:47 evince seems to render much faster than the n800s PDF viewer. Aug 17 05:12:56 thats what I've read Aug 17 05:13:46 books that were unreadable (3-4 sec page load) were not an issues on evince Aug 17 05:14:17 i wish i could remove the inbuilt pdf and email programs Aug 17 05:14:49 gaim/pidgin too. get a BT keyboard Aug 17 05:15:03 you will want a BT keyboard Aug 17 05:16:48 can't afford a bt keyboard..I'm going for USB host mode. I'm very sorry to hear the 800 doesn't have usb host mode. USB is the biggest factor in my purchase. I was looking for a SMALL portable SSH terminal so I could take notes and have them stored on my PC at home. I gave up until I found out I could connect a USB keyboard to the 770. Aug 17 05:19:20 didnt know that the 770 could do that Aug 17 05:20:29 still, the speed of the n800 was important to me Aug 17 05:20:31 it takes a reflash and you have to build a cable to inject 5v into the USB port of the 770 and the USB device. But yeah, from what I hear it works great. There was an posting about a guy who used a skype USB headset to talk on gizmo. Aug 17 05:21:09 i thought host mode worked for the n800 with a kernel patch Aug 17 05:21:15 Yeah, I'm worried that the 250mhz CPU is going to hurt. I'm also sad about the memory card situation, but I'll manage. Like I said, this is supposed to be nothing but a note taking device. Aug 17 05:21:33 until it replaced your mp3 player Aug 17 05:21:37 I know they are working on it, I didn't know it had been fixed. Aug 17 05:21:42 Luria: People seem to have trouble with the experimental patches Aug 17 05:21:50 and then you maintain a pdf library :) Aug 17 05:22:04 I have a mpd -> icecast server at home..I stream to my cellphone, and I'll be able to stream to the 770 :-) Aug 17 05:22:29 nice Aug 17 05:22:46 I expect to switch my ebooks from the cellphone to the 770..the screen should be wonderful Aug 17 05:22:59 ive tried edge via bluetooth, but i think im sticking to wifi hunting Aug 17 05:23:22 if only one could crack wep on the n800 ;-) Aug 17 05:23:42 (yes, yes, but no packet injection) Aug 17 05:24:01 I do the streaming via edge. When I was in houston a month back I got a taste of 3g.. 7 times the speed! (~150 - 200kbit, 800-990 in houston) Aug 17 05:24:53 I'm also interested in using the Wifi in the 770 + bluetooth to the cellphone + iptables to make a roving ad-hoc hotspot. Could be nice on road trips :-) Aug 17 05:27:39 (yes, yes, but no packet injection) Aug 17 05:27:45 wait so multiple computer connect to your iT to your phone and out? Aug 17 05:27:53 (sorry) Aug 17 05:28:17 correct. Slow yes, but better than nothing. enough to check email, RSS, etc Aug 17 05:28:34 i guess Aug 17 05:28:54 but thats what the iT is for: checking email, directions, rss feeds Aug 17 05:29:08 even chatting in irc channels :-) Aug 17 05:29:31 I usually go w/ 2 or 3 friends to a amatuer radio convetion called Hamvention, largest in the country. Last year we had 4 laptops on the way there, 8 or 9 on the way back :-/ Aug 17 05:29:35 true Aug 17 05:30:07 interesting Aug 17 05:30:29 i was thinking of sitting for the ham test on the 20th just for fun Aug 17 05:30:37 at columbia uni Aug 17 05:31:58 trevarthan: im having trouble with kagu again Aug 17 05:32:25 trevarthan: you said a wheel in kagu facetiously... thats actually fine with me Aug 17 05:32:31 do it! you've heard of gateway drugs? Ham radio is a gateway hobby..it gives you many new directions to take any of your other hobbies. Example: RC planes. w/ the lowest level ham license you can use new frequencies that are less crowded and use more power. Computers: how about a 300mile wifi link? antenna designs, etc Aug 17 05:32:50 i know, i know Aug 17 05:33:10 dxing with an n800? :) Aug 17 05:33:12 its not just about sitting around talking on the radio. I also chase near space balloons... http://astro.okstate.edu Aug 17 05:33:22 it could be done... I guess ;-) Aug 17 05:33:38 oh it was for talking... Aug 17 05:33:45 just the fun of knowing Aug 17 05:33:51 I hope to use the 770 as an APRS client xastir.sourceforge.net Aug 17 05:34:02 or building a transceiver Aug 17 05:34:45 yeah, that too. I never got into that side of it. Although the new software define radios are very interesting Aug 17 05:35:13 oh neat link Aug 17 05:37:03 an example of the ham community: a few years ago on our way back from hamvention we saw a car from canada. Plastered with callsign, etc. We knew he was a ham. We make motions window to window to pick a frequency. We start talking. After nearly an hour driving down the road we decide to stop and have dinner together. The 4 of us, him and his two passengers. Aug 17 05:37:35 It turns out he was a store chaser from canada. He gave tours. Kinda neat. Aug 17 05:37:43 i wouldnt mind becoming a ham now that the code requirement has been relaxed Aug 17 05:37:55 relaxed? removed? Aug 17 05:38:04 yeah, I need to upgrade :-) Aug 17 05:38:34 you mean the morse requirement? Aug 17 05:38:53 i started listening to the arrl cds for fun anyway Aug 17 05:38:57 i got to use a sony mylo today Aug 17 05:39:03 gah Aug 17 05:39:07 thats another device on my 'perfect gaming handheld runners up' list Aug 17 05:40:10 disq trevarthan: kagu writes to /home/user even as root? if im not mistaken, thats very bad. Aug 17 05:41:38 disq: i have confirmed that my ogg does not have a track number for mutagen to find Aug 17 05:43:10 you know, they need to make a tiny usb dongle that is dsp+fm xmitter Aug 17 05:43:13 sudo does that too, no? :) Aug 17 05:44:10 i just saw a very disturbing commerical... Aug 17 05:44:24 timeless: sudo is supposed to do that. this is the difference in running as root and running from within a shell run as root :) Aug 17 05:57:58 disq trevarthan: ogg track numbers work. i didnt have any :) Aug 17 06:05:21 i cant be alone in hating the kagu volume and seek control Aug 17 06:05:27 its so massive and counter-intuitive Aug 17 06:05:45 Sorry to bother again with a lasr test Aug 17 06:06:58 Can you ping 'qgil' now and then in 10 minutes? Now the test on pidgin is done with minimized window. Thanks! Aug 17 06:23:30 qgil, you good? Aug 17 06:23:58 Test successful! Aug 17 06:24:59 Thanks. Ping sounds in irc channel work always with pidgin Aug 17 06:25:30 np Aug 17 06:25:48 Now i see that some people had sent personal messages but i got no sound Aug 17 06:25:59 Will check my prefs Aug 17 06:27:23 omg the GoBook MR-1 is nuts Aug 17 06:29:17 i love ruggedized stuff Aug 17 06:32:36 http://www.gd-itronix.com/index.cfm?page=Products:MR-1 Aug 17 06:33:17 well, i know whats replacing my cf-m34 in a few years... Aug 17 06:34:33 rofl Aug 17 06:34:34 the tablet Aug 17 06:34:36 <_Monkey> it has been said that the tablet is something you browse with while watching tv :) Aug 17 06:34:38 the tablet i bought Aug 17 06:34:49 cnet gave them a lower score because of no CF slot Aug 17 06:35:01 CF? what is this, 2001? Aug 17 06:37:13 no SD, THAT gets a negative from me... but CF?!? Aug 17 06:38:16 my audrey uses something like cf iirc Aug 17 06:38:49 yep :) Aug 17 06:39:48 CF is for devices too small for PCMCIA Aug 17 06:39:58 and this has a type 2 slot Aug 17 06:40:00 CF is for devices too small for PCMCIA, before the invention of SDIO Aug 17 06:41:20 http://www.welovemacs.com/pcm04.html Aug 17 06:41:22 problem solved Aug 17 07:36:19 how many bluetooth devices can the 770 connect to at the same time? Aug 17 07:39:22 Darksmurf: there shouldn't be at least any SW imposed restriction. the device supports scaternets and in a piconet where it's acting as master it can have up to 7 slave connections (which is a restriction of bluetooth and not specific to the 770) Aug 17 07:40:28 jhe thanks! Just what I was hoping to hear. Aug 17 07:40:48 err..read. Aug 17 07:40:56 :) np Aug 17 07:42:51 jhe: you know of anyone using a nonpowered usb hub w/ the 770 in usb host mode, by injecting 5v into the PC connection? I expect it to backfeed into the 770 to power it's USBchip, as well as feed into the hub to power the other devices. I think the hub should treat it exactly like the 'pc' was feeding it 5v. I'm hoping to avoid the use of a true powered hub. Aug 17 07:44:08 as far as i know, in the 5v has to be in between the 770 and your non powered hub Aug 17 07:44:15 so as long as you meet that condition Aug 17 07:44:30 fwiw, ive had keyboard, gps, and edge running at once on my n800 Aug 17 07:45:02 sounds good. all the howtos say to use a powered hub. I just want to make sure I'm not going to kill the 770. Aug 17 07:45:07 Luria perfect. Aug 17 07:45:31 a powered hub, afaik, but default does not inject 5v into the host port Aug 17 07:45:52 what i've done before is crossed the 5v output of a powered hub from the client port to the host port Aug 17 07:45:56 and it's worked fine Aug 17 07:46:43 (now is also a good time to point i'm not an electrical engineer, but am an enthusiastic hobbiest...) Aug 17 07:47:00 as am I guru3..but I'm in school to be an EE :-) Aug 17 07:48:10 heh, well, i'm not even studying for EE Aug 17 08:11:24 Morning, all Aug 17 08:40:06 good morning Aug 17 08:49:13 hello ... anyone here familiar with OMAP 3430? Aug 17 08:56:04 i want one Aug 17 08:57:38 if i were 18 again i'd be learning ARM assembly Aug 17 08:58:10 pupnik:... are you familiar with it? Aug 17 08:58:26 i have read the specs Aug 17 08:58:37 pupnik: so you know about m-shield? Aug 17 08:59:57 that's interesting - google hits with m-shield have that text removed Aug 17 09:00:16 http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/ti_mshield_whitepaper.pdf Aug 17 09:02:29 pupnik... you there? Aug 17 09:02:36 yeah reading that link Aug 17 09:02:40 ok..:) Aug 17 09:02:41 what's interesting about it to you? Aug 17 09:02:59 well...:) I'm studying this for school and I don't understand a couple of things... Aug 17 09:03:09 so I was hoping someone here can clarify thigs for me:) Aug 17 09:03:27 m-shield is embedded in the omap right? Aug 17 09:04:02 "TI's M-Shield technology is a system-level approach that intimately interleaves hardware and software" Aug 17 09:04:25 seems to be the name they give their overall scheme of making things difficult Aug 17 09:04:55 so the software comes seperate...? Aug 17 09:05:01 I have to purchace it seperatly? Aug 17 09:05:08 check the Hardware Feature Set and ROM Code Feature Set Aug 17 09:05:22 m-shield refers to their hardware design and their software together, afaict Aug 17 09:05:45 so it includes all the encryption algorithms embedded? Aug 17 09:05:56 you do probably need to buy/license some aspects, for example the cryptographic accelerators (which might be interesting for us too) Aug 17 09:06:12 that what I'm intrested in Aug 17 09:06:13 looks like it's all in the N800 already Aug 17 09:06:20 the omaps have hardware to do the acceleration, you need to pay to get code to use it Aug 17 09:06:33 or get hacking... :) Aug 17 09:06:35 excepting the ARM TrustZone support Aug 17 09:06:37 ic:)... Aug 17 09:07:02 zomg! torrent plz! Aug 17 09:07:07 so I need their software to work with the encrpytion algorithms instead for looking for a 3d party security solution for protecting data? Aug 17 09:07:34 so I need == better to use Aug 17 09:08:25 well you may as well use the hardware that's sat there Aug 17 09:08:45 but as there's little data available, I'd want to test that it works too (though I don;t imagine it wouldn't) Aug 17 09:08:53 so there is no need for me to look for a 3d party security solution? to protect data in transit Aug 17 09:08:58 just depends then on how expensive/hard it is to implement Aug 17 09:09:21 I think it would work:) Aug 17 09:09:22 it TI Aug 17 09:09:24 in transit where? Between the chips on the omap? Aug 17 09:09:33 no bettween a device and a server Aug 17 09:09:49 personal data like contact lists for example Aug 17 09:10:01 I want to encrypt the list first Aug 17 09:10:07 then transmit to the server Aug 17 09:10:15 do you know scp? Aug 17 09:10:19 :) Aug 17 09:10:20 yes Aug 17 09:10:30 but I need something more secure Aug 17 09:10:38 and trusted Aug 17 09:10:44 better to encrypt then I don't need scp Aug 17 09:10:54 well write your own then, I wouldn't trust someone else's closed code Aug 17 09:11:03 AES is open source Aug 17 09:11:28 the chip has accelerators, you need to utilise the accelerators to do encryption/decryption as part of your security infrastructure Aug 17 09:11:50 accelerator meaning they make things faster? Aug 17 09:12:10 so you could use the accelerator to encrypt then send emails, etc., but you'd need to write the code to call the encryption hardware (or link into their api) and to then do the sendind Aug 17 09:12:28 :) thank you Aug 17 09:12:33 that's just what I needed to know;) Aug 17 09:12:46 it's like graphics cards hw accel, you still need to do something with the data before and after Aug 17 09:12:55 ok:) Aug 17 09:13:02 the acceleration just makes it quicker doing the encoding/decoding Aug 17 09:13:09 ic Aug 17 09:13:11 That's my impression anyway Aug 17 09:13:24 I've tried contacting TI by phone... Aug 17 09:13:31 but they only work with companies:) Aug 17 09:13:37 so they wouldn't give me any info Aug 17 09:13:40 yeah# Aug 17 09:14:08 There are some other features that look like they might interest you - secure storage of various keys and other things that you coudl use for the encryption for example Aug 17 09:14:32 yes... and what is mobile ticketing?... Aug 17 09:14:58 same as keys? Aug 17 09:15:19 cab't find that Aug 17 09:15:36 it's in the pdf Aug 17 09:15:44 but doesn't explain what it means Aug 17 09:16:56 what page, search doesn't find it Aug 17 09:17:05 one sec let me open the pdf... Aug 17 09:18:46 hmm I'm sure I've seen there... Aug 17 09:18:50 maybe it's in the ompa pdf Aug 17 09:18:52 one sec Aug 17 09:19:27 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12316&contentId=4629 Aug 17 09:19:56 under "Offer New and Different Content? Aug 17 09:19:59 ?==" Aug 17 09:20:07 does it simply mean buying tickets using your mobile? Aug 17 09:20:25 :) perhaps didn't think that simple Aug 17 09:20:35 Just a guess Aug 17 09:20:39 I thought it might be a security feature:) Aug 17 09:20:44 I think you are right Aug 17 09:21:51 I will try to contact them again regarding the cryptographic accelerators... Aug 17 09:22:03 I need to make sure I don't need a 3rd party solution here Aug 17 09:23:10 Thank you lardman really appriciate the help;-D Aug 17 09:24:12 hi all. what's the status of kismet and the like for n800? Aug 17 09:24:28 do i need to update os etc? Aug 17 09:25:14 a69oker: np, good luck Aug 17 09:27:12 thanx cu l84 Aug 17 09:27:15 l8r Aug 17 09:28:32 Hello. Aug 17 09:35:01 anyone familiar with the dspsink (Gstreamer/ARM side) source codes? Aug 17 09:36:16 does a sink need to know a lot about the data it's decoding (to pass onto other parts of Gstreamer, not to do the decoding itself which is selfevident)? Aug 17 09:37:18 I think I am the only one awake, and I have no idea sorry. Aug 17 09:37:30 But if it makes you feel any better I think I jsut bricked my 770. :) Aug 17 09:37:51 Should be very hard to brick Aug 17 09:37:55 what have you done? Aug 17 09:38:32 Well I'm not sure. Aug 17 09:38:43 I just got a New MMC for it, a 2gig one I found on amazon. Aug 17 09:39:00 i newfsed my / partition on my work machine yesterday, when trying to get the new disk working. oops Aug 17 09:39:27 opps indeed Aug 17 09:39:28 INsert it, boot it up, get a root terminal and format the mmc via sfdisk. Reboot. Aug 17 09:39:34 Now the screen is all botched up. Aug 17 09:39:36 fortunately it needed a new os anyway. svn co /home/rik ftw :) Aug 17 09:39:51 Silent1mark: Interesting Aug 17 09:40:13 Silent1mark: Same without the card? There are some posts about this kind of thing happening, not sure what the cause is as I';ve not read them Aug 17 09:40:41 lardman: where is the forum? Aug 17 09:40:53 internettablettalk.com Aug 17 09:41:07 Oh ok, I was looking all over the maemo page and then came here Aug 17 09:41:11 or linked from maemo.org Aug 17 09:41:39 under the Not a developer? text Aug 17 09:41:54 Oh ok. Aug 17 09:41:55 Users United even Aug 17 09:42:05 I tried reflashing it, I got this error, " Sending request 0x83 failed: Cannot send after transport endpoint shutdown Aug 17 09:42:06 " Aug 17 09:42:22 But it did re-flash it, and it rebooted and still has a goofy screen Aug 17 09:42:33 describe goofy Aug 17 09:43:05 all white screen, tablet works, jsut an all white screen. Aug 17 09:43:30 how do you konw the tablet works? Aug 17 09:43:36 When I hit the power button I can see the " lock device , shutdown. etc.." menu sort of show up, but nothign is readable. Aug 17 09:43:51 ahh i've had that - did you delete themes? Aug 17 09:43:53 oh, is that the white-screen-of-death? Aug 17 09:44:10 no it's hildon failing to load the theme Aug 17 09:44:10 and I can hear the " click" sounds when I move the stylus around on the screen. Aug 17 09:44:15 Oh ok. Aug 17 09:44:27 Is there a quick fix opn the forum I can find? Aug 17 09:44:48 check that the image you are flashing is complete - check filesize and md5sum Aug 17 09:45:00 ok Aug 17 09:45:11 It shoudl be fine since it is the same one I've used as before. Aug 17 09:45:34 what's the filename? Aug 17 09:45:41 I wonder if the flasher checks it too? Aug 17 09:46:05 Here is the whole command I have been using to flash Aug 17 09:46:08 ./flasher-3.0 -F SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Aug 17 09:47:21 my SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin filesize: 63044309 md5sum: 421eac7f6800b5ddee8e7ed9319c434e Aug 17 09:47:43 use flasher 2 Aug 17 09:47:50 afaik it is the recommended one Aug 17 09:48:43 It's the WSOD Aug 17 09:48:49 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8658 Aug 17 09:49:15 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux 3.0 should also work on the 770 Aug 17 09:50:07 Dunno. I have seen people try 3.0, fail, and try 2.0 with success. Aug 17 09:50:29 it appears to me that Silent1mark has flashed defectively Aug 17 09:50:45 agreed, but he had problems before flashin I think Aug 17 09:50:49 ok Aug 17 09:51:32 Silent1mark: can you take a picture of the device with the 'WSOD' and upload it somewhere? Aug 17 09:51:47 I can show you exactly what it looks like. Aug 17 09:52:04 THis is not mine Aug 17 09:52:11 but one on the forum, of exactly what I am seeing Aug 17 09:52:13 http://i15.tinypic.com/4pbs1fa.jpg Aug 17 09:52:26 yep wsod Aug 17 09:53:00 * pupnik takes his hat off Aug 17 09:53:25 Man that sucks. Aug 17 09:53:53 I've had this thing since the first article about it in LJ and have rebooted it 9.432432x10^64 times. Aug 17 10:18:31 Silent1mark: Nokia should replace it even if it's out of warranty as it's obviously a manufacturing defect Aug 17 10:27:52 has anyone installed kismet? Aug 17 10:28:05 ah, I see there is a Ti document called the OMAP2420 Technical Reference Manual, that would be interesting... Aug 17 10:32:21 Jaffa: Thanks, I am looking into that right now. And am looking up consumer laws incase they try to give me the run around. Aug 17 10:32:25 rik yes Aug 17 10:32:35 sup Aug 17 10:33:27 Silent1mark: also, where are you based? In the UK, the Sales of Goods Act applies for around 7 years, and you go go back to the vendor (not manufacturer) in that time and get a replacement/refund. Aug 17 10:33:57 I am in the US. I bought this one Direstly from NOkia, via the Online Store. Aug 17 10:34:11 refund for anything that breaks after 7 years? Aug 17 10:34:22 s/after/before Aug 17 10:34:51 that would certainly explain why prices in GB are so high Aug 17 10:34:55 You'd have to try quite hard to prove that what they sold you wasn't fit for purpose though Aug 17 10:35:56 around the 7 year mark that is Aug 17 10:36:15 pupnik: from where? i can't find a package, or rather i haven't yet. Aug 17 10:36:23 Yeah, and no-one in the shops knows about it, so you have to fight Aug 17 10:37:34 Do they know anything on the day you buy things either?! Aug 17 10:37:42 Good point :) Aug 17 10:38:13 # sqlite3 libsqlite3-0 libreadline4 kismet becomeroot btscanner pipepanic privoxy locales-extras-polish gpesyncd Aug 17 10:38:17 deb http://eko.one.pl/maemo mistral user Aug 17 10:43:01 so, what do i do with that? i'm still neww to this n800 and maemo stuff... Aug 17 10:44:13 is there no install file for kismet? Aug 17 10:45:13 no, oh well Aug 17 10:45:27 In which case you need to add that repository in the Application Manager Aug 17 10:45:37 not that i've found. of course there's probably something i don@t know Aug 17 10:45:55 then let it update (download a list of packages contained therein), then select kismet from the list and click install Aug 17 10:46:26 how do i add that repository? Aug 17 10:46:45 Tools menu, somewhere near the top iirc, have;'t got my n800 near me atm Aug 17 10:47:14 okay. *peer* Aug 17 10:47:32 umm dunno about kismet+n800 Aug 17 10:47:37 app manager also happens to be in the tools section of the 'start menu' Aug 17 10:47:49 that kismet is for 770 Aug 17 10:48:06 ah, missed that point Aug 17 10:48:33 i do not know if anyone has built drivers for n800 wlan that support rfmon mode Aug 17 10:49:54 * pupnik is happy that his 'obsolete' 770 still does some things better than N800 :) Aug 17 10:49:57 ahhhh. that makes sense, from what i've read. i.just thought he poblems were solved by now. Aug 17 10:50:30 kismet? Aug 17 10:50:30 <_Monkey> somebody said kismet was http://eko.one.pl/maemo mistral user or http://kismetwireless.net/code/kismet-svn-devel-n800.deb but don't complain if it doesn't work Aug 17 10:50:37 Does the n800 WSOD as well? Aug 17 10:50:41 hm Aug 17 10:50:41 well. i guess i should get pim stuff intalled then Aug 17 10:50:49 mmmf, anyone got n800 sip from rtcomm beta to work with asterisk? looked like in the forums, but no details provided. Aug 17 10:50:59 hey rik - check out that n800.deb Aug 17 10:53:26 thanks! Aug 17 10:54:00 someday monkey will be the most knowledgable chatter in maemo :) Aug 17 10:55:49 unfortunately, that package doesn't install for me. it's complaining about incompatible application package. Aug 17 10:56:19 i suspect that's my n800 havng an old os though Aug 17 10:56:31 then install with dpkg -i Aug 17 10:57:13 hmm. laptop power plug which hardly works. suddenly my n800 gets heavy usage. Aug 17 10:57:39 _Monkey: Learned anything about Jazelle yet? Aug 17 10:57:39 <_Monkey> wish i knew, lardman Aug 17 10:57:44 likewise Aug 17 10:58:16 not that knowledgeable yet then, though yesterday he/it spouted something about hw acceleration iirc Aug 17 10:58:21 hm. where's the document folder live on the filesystem? i've downloaded the package to it. Aug 17 10:58:46 ~/MyDocs/.documents/ or something like that Aug 17 11:00:13 lardman, i'm beginning to think maybe dsp would be useful for audio even without access to audio device Aug 17 11:00:25 if you ask me, that´s a little stupid. why hide it? Aug 17 11:00:44 sigh. i'm such a n00b. okay... how do i get root on this? is there a sudo package i can install? :) Aug 17 11:00:53 hi, (lardman, _Monkey) I'm interested in Jazelle, too. have seen Sebastian Mancke's presentation about Java on InternetTablets on Linuxtag in Berlin... I'm working mainly on/with Java phoneME advanced. Aug 17 11:00:57 becomeroot? Aug 17 11:00:57 <_Monkey> becomeroot is is easily obtained from [770/OS2006] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or [770/OS2007HE and N800/OS2007] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or for a more long winded method http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot Aug 17 11:01:14 jonek: _Monkey is a bot Aug 17 11:01:21 :) Aug 17 11:01:28 ic Aug 17 11:01:34 jonek: I'm Simon Pickering, writing random rubbish about Jazelle to the list Aug 17 11:02:20 pupnik: Yes, I'm working out how to get the Tremor-lowmem-no-byte code working Aug 17 11:02:50 pupnik: Start passing back the data, as kulve said, we should write some codecs then Nokia may be more inspired to release some more info for us Aug 17 11:02:55 you are my hero :) Aug 17 11:03:08 don't get your hopes up yet! Aug 17 11:03:30 how big is the c code for tremor? Aug 17 11:03:35 lardman: i've read your mails and found them quite interesting! Aug 17 11:03:48 the snes sound chip emu is 44726 spc700.cpp Aug 17 11:04:24 but i have no idea how dsp can access memory :) Aug 17 11:04:45 okay. i have to go. i'll deal with this soon. Aug 17 11:04:45 since it is meant to process streams this might not be possible Aug 17 11:05:02 cu rik - follow _Monkey's instructions Aug 17 11:05:30 lardman: it still gets stuck. I'll try to learn some day how the mmap works. That's how the existing tasks seems to be passing the data.. Aug 17 11:05:53 jonek: I'd be interested in your opinion of whether things like Java stack pointer, pointer to variables area and the constant pool pointer would need to be setup outside of Jazelle or by Jazelle Aug 17 11:06:18 kulve: Yep, look at p57 of the spec doc Aug 17 11:06:58 pupnik: The code size is ~700kb Aug 17 11:07:26 https://trac.xiph.org/browser/branches/lowmem-no-byte/Tremor Aug 17 11:07:46 lardman: do I need to make the .cmd file for the task? All the existing tasks have it.. Aug 17 11:07:52 pupnik: What do you mean by "access memory"? Aug 17 11:08:07 kulve: I'm not sure, the G.711 doesn't seem to need it Aug 17 11:08:30 kulve: I think (and this is just my guess) that you can change the default mapping using the command file Aug 17 11:08:34 does dsp have its own ram, or do you reserve and map some system ram for it? Aug 17 11:09:00 pupnik: It has its own, and an MMU to map/share system memory too Aug 17 11:10:17 i see asm_arm.h there - maybe it is possible to build a faster libvorbisidec? Aug 17 11:10:44 possibly, not sure whether those bits of asm are used in the normal ARM tremor Aug 17 11:11:07 I thought they only do 64bit arithmetic, which isn't needed much Aug 17 11:11:56 I'm wrong, nothing 64bit in there Aug 17 11:13:37 https://trac.xiph.org/browser/trunk/Tremor has the arm asm too Aug 17 11:14:20 I think arm asm is a problem? Since dsp doesn't run it? Aug 17 11:14:40 the asm is ifdef's Aug 17 11:14:47 ifdef'd Aug 17 11:14:59 so it shouldn't be an issue Aug 17 11:17:00 I need to build a frontend for the code, to interface with the dspgateway Aug 17 11:17:12 and to call ov_open_callbacks Aug 17 11:17:33 looks like the callbacks stuff they have built in should make life easier Aug 17 11:18:11 the only issue with this simplistic approach, is that all of the processing will be done on the DSP, so it may make passing back data for ARM side apps more difficult Aug 17 11:18:44 the ARM side will open the file and pass the whole lot over without even looking at it. This is not the way the Nokia DSP sinks work. Aug 17 11:19:27 Not sure if this is to optimise the processing or simply because GStreamer requires more knowledge of the stream data and passing it back would be inefficient Aug 17 11:20:43 lardman, I think that the requirement in gstreamer is playback in sync Aug 17 11:21:07 okay Aug 17 11:21:40 I think I'm getting a little ahead of myself anyway, if I can pass the whole file and decode it that will be a step in the right direction Aug 17 11:22:49 lardman, the gstreamer elements could be done probably in a different way, currently in the the decoders written on top of DSP are sinks for compressed data Aug 17 11:23:56 I think that ideally one would use the same general scheme though, keep the timing and overall control on the ARM and just send frames to the DSP Aug 17 11:24:18 but I don;t know vorbis very well, so I'll take what I can get and work from there Aug 17 11:24:36 a different approach could be just decoders on dsp, generic dsp sink capable to push raw data and special elements to recover/push buffers to DSP Aug 17 11:25:22 the dsp sink should expect that data is allocated at dsp side Aug 17 11:25:24 that's really what the Nokia code does, generic interface with the DSP and some setup code for each supported codec Aug 17 11:26:29 yes, lardman I read the code of gstreamer for dsp some weeks ago Aug 17 11:26:50 anyone using hacker? for some reason i can't delete files with filemanager, was just wondering if it's a known issue Aug 17 11:27:08 AD-N770: Anyway, all in the fullness of time :) Aug 17 11:27:08 mainly I was interested on dsppcmsink Aug 17 11:28:15 lardman, have you tried to compile vfp assembly with CS2005 ? Aug 17 11:28:49 I've not looked at vfp assembly at all I'm afraid Aug 17 11:29:00 cs=code studio? Aug 17 11:29:11 CodeSourcery Aug 17 11:29:21 ah, okay Aug 17 11:29:24 the toolchain that maemo uses Aug 17 11:29:28 yep Aug 17 11:29:45 Well vfp works, but I've just left the compiler to sort out the assembly Aug 17 11:29:51 a bit old now, I think that nokia should update it Aug 17 11:30:39 I rewrote a function of liboil two weeks ago, but I couldn't find the way to build it Aug 17 11:31:08 I don't know what to do to make gcc compile my code Aug 17 11:31:22 is it all asm or inline? Aug 17 11:31:30 asm Aug 17 11:31:57 I've only been fiddling with inline asm for the Jazelle stuff, I don;t know much about writing entire functions in asm Aug 17 11:33:00 what kind of errors do you get? Aug 17 11:33:31 lardman: http://pastebin.com/m6ba20605 Aug 17 11:34:07 lardman: I wrote some code in asm for arm5/6 before Aug 17 11:34:20 but that's my first try with vfp Aug 17 11:34:42 the compile refuses to understand the vfp code Aug 17 11:34:55 ah, have you set mcpu? Aug 17 11:35:04 a flag to gcc Aug 17 11:35:46 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp Aug 17 11:35:48 I guess.. Aug 17 11:35:52 i.e. gcc test_jazelle.c -mcpu=arm1136j-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -o test_jazelle.bin Aug 17 11:36:06 lardman, kulve: http://pastebin.com/d42b14c55 Aug 17 11:36:18 otherwise the compiler may not accept certain asm instructions (such as bxj) Aug 17 11:36:46 same may be true for the vfp instructions (as the toolchain is softfloat otherwise I think) Aug 17 11:36:55 AD-N770: what's the error? Aug 17 11:37:03 (I don't know anything about asm though..) Aug 17 11:37:04 and last one: http://pastebin.com/d11e4c543 Aug 17 11:38:12 see what -mcpu=arm1136j-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp does, rather than -mtune Aug 17 11:38:49 bad instruction `fadd s24,s8,s16' Aug 17 11:38:58 I'm going to try it now Aug 17 11:40:01 same errors with -mcpu Aug 17 11:43:17 I can only find QDADD in both the ARM arch manual and the ARM1136J-S Tech manuals Aug 17 11:43:27 so, I got videos to play with mplayer and a2dp audio, stay in sync, and not be laggy :P Aug 17 11:43:52 (n800) Aug 17 11:44:15 lardman VFP is a coprocessor Aug 17 11:44:26 still looking for ways to improve performance... any mplayer/mencoder experts here? Aug 17 11:44:28 rm_you: Cool, when I tried a2dp my misic seemed to change tempo quite a bit Aug 17 11:44:30 lardman: has a separate manual Aug 17 11:44:47 AD-N770: Do you have a link or name? Aug 17 11:44:56 lardman: mine seems to work fine.. was that video or mp3? Aug 17 11:45:01 yes, looking at ARM site Aug 17 11:45:06 rm_you: mp3 Aug 17 11:45:15 wow... that's lame :9 Aug 17 11:45:20 :( Aug 17 11:45:36 rm_you: May have had something running that slowed down the conversion I suppose Aug 17 11:45:39 through Kagu or command line mplayer? Aug 17 11:45:47 rm_you: either Aug 17 11:45:50 iirc Aug 17 11:45:52 :( Aug 17 11:45:55 "Vector Floating Point Instruction Set Quick Reference Card (95KB .pdf)" Aug 17 11:45:59 http://www.arm.com/pdfs/QRC0007_VFP.pdf Aug 17 11:46:00 certainly played thro Kagu Aug 17 11:46:27 and ARM DDI 0274H Aug 17 11:46:41 yeah, me and a friend have been sitting here trying to improve a2dp+video performance all day Aug 17 11:47:12 is ffmp3 an integer only mp3 decoder now? thought it used to be FP Aug 17 11:47:17 http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DDI0274H_vfp11_r1p5_trm.pdf Aug 17 11:47:26 thanks, taking a look now Aug 17 11:47:28 the n800 only has a virtual floating point processor, right? Aug 17 11:47:44 rm_you: No it's real hw Aug 17 11:47:45 vector floating poing, afaik Aug 17 11:47:50 poing.. Aug 17 11:47:53 ah ok, cool Aug 17 11:48:14 it's real hardware Aug 17 11:48:30 then that wouldnt make a difference, bah... was hoping compiling mplayer with libmad support would improve decoding performance, but that explains why we didnt see a significant speed increase Aug 17 11:48:38 it doesn't seem very efficient though. At least e.g. vorbis is faster with tremor (fixed point) than the floating point version Aug 17 11:49:20 rm_you, libmad compared with what ? Aug 17 11:49:24 nah was seeing average 30% cpu usage for mplayer and a2dpd combined, with both ffmp3 and libmad Aug 17 11:49:37 that's the code though, I've read they are thinking of adopting a fp version of Tremor as the standard code Aug 17 11:50:11 AD-N770: ffmp3, being the other default used instead of dspmp3 Aug 17 11:50:43 at least, actually in the official mplayer, and referenced on all the a2dp guides Aug 17 11:50:51 hello Aug 17 11:50:53 ok Aug 17 11:51:13 have you tried a2dp stuff? Aug 17 11:51:26 I've to go for lunch now Aug 17 11:51:30 AD-N770: Don't you need to access the coprocessor registers to pass data back and forth? Aug 17 11:51:49 lardman: yes Aug 17 11:51:54 i.e. MMRC/MCRR Aug 17 11:52:02 you don;t seem to do this though, so you? Aug 17 11:52:12 s/so you/do you Aug 17 11:52:19 who is the guy maintaining mplayer for the n800? Aug 17 11:52:40 no sure if I'm doing it in the appropriate way, if I understood correctly the manual Aug 17 11:53:09 there's specific instructions to move from memory to vfp registers Aug 17 11:53:10 I don't know either, just from a quick read and my looking at some of the other coprocessors Aug 17 11:53:19 rm_you: a quick look at the mailing list would answer that Aug 17 11:53:31 yeah... will do that in a sec Aug 17 11:53:54 i'm on my n800 right now and working on like three things at once, was easier to just ask first :P sorry Aug 17 11:54:02 lardman: http://www.arm.com/pdfs/QRC0007_VFP.pdf Aug 17 11:54:14 for the quick reference sheet Aug 17 11:54:27 was hoping maybe he/she was here now :P if i was lucky Aug 17 11:54:45 ah okay, register names look like they are mapped to the main processor Aug 17 11:54:50 Sn, etc. Aug 17 11:54:58 Sn for single Aug 17 11:55:03 Dn for double Aug 17 11:55:25 aliased together Aug 17 11:55:53 and fpscr to configure/status Aug 17 11:56:03 I wonder if FADD requires a suffix of S or D Aug 17 11:56:16 i.e. it isn't valid without it Aug 17 11:56:52 sparr: it shouldn't be writing to anything as root, unless you're running it as root, and we try not to do that from the installer. Why did you ask? Aug 17 11:57:04 ups Aug 17 11:57:37 rm_you: has been inactive for a while Aug 17 11:58:59 lardman, you are right Aug 17 11:59:10 another perspective somtimes help Aug 17 11:59:16 easy to spot with fresh eyes Aug 17 11:59:38 yes, I will play with it this evening Aug 17 11:59:44 I've done similar, spent ages with a typo right in front of me, etc. Aug 17 11:59:52 cool, let us know how you get on Aug 17 11:59:58 later I will comment it to you Aug 17 12:00:08 I'm going to lunch now Aug 17 12:00:40 the sample code in the manual confused me Aug 17 12:00:45 * lardman should really get back to writing a paper too Aug 17 12:00:53 pupnik: ah :( Aug 17 12:02:23 Hi! I just reinstalled my 770 and am puzzled by one thing: Even though it's the same OS release, before the reflash, the contacts icon in the left column used to blink between dimmed and bright colours and stayed bright after a few seconds. No I have no blinking and no bright colours... Does this mean anything? Aug 17 12:02:43 Addressbook and so on still seems to work... Aug 17 12:02:57 damn, Ti emailed me back to say that they won't release OMAP2420 technical manual to anyone but their largest customers, or you have to pay for it Aug 17 12:03:06 Does anyone know an easy why that I can post an online poll? I want to see what people think of the Volume/Seek control in Kagu. Aug 17 12:04:13 trevarthan: You could do one in the internettablettalk forums Aug 17 12:04:37 start a new topic, choose poll, etc. Aug 17 12:04:52 how does that work? Aug 17 12:05:01 What does clicking "poll" do? Aug 17 12:06:22 ah. http://forum.swsoft.com/misc.php?s=e658ecfe6b42bb9ed670153b0346d07f&action=faq&page=3#polls Aug 17 12:06:27 lardman: How much do they want for it? :) Aug 17 12:06:33 iirc, it gives you 4 mutually exclusive options for people to click on Aug 17 12:06:56 X-Fade: No idea, the reply was pretty airy-fairy Aug 17 12:07:40 lardman: Well, just ask them their price. That'll cause them a lot of work. Aug 17 12:08:26 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/unnamed.htm is the reply Aug 17 12:08:54 got my title wrong too, then tell me about the University programme, silly people :) Aug 17 12:10:35 lardman: Hmm yeah not very helpful.. Aug 17 12:11:18 I think that's probably life, not very useful for hackers who hack in their own time without someone to buy them documentation, etc. Aug 17 12:14:05 Well, if the price was reasonable. Aug 17 12:14:44 I don;t even know if there's anything useful in it. Anyone from Nokia care to comment on how interesting the manual is? :) Aug 17 12:15:09 sparr: throw in your 0.2 cents, man: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8937 Aug 17 12:16:01 lardman: Quim Gil told me via email and at the Linuxtag taht Nokia is willing to support community efforts towards "better" Java support. Maybe this includes some pages from certain manuals ;-)!? Aug 17 12:16:51 jonek: Now that would be very interesing :) I also contacted ARM to ask them about the Jazelle manual and they said no. Aug 17 12:17:14 Perhaps I should go for some lessons in persuasion... :D Aug 17 12:18:56 is java in general on maemo in a state that jazelle acceleration is something thats a priority? Aug 17 12:19:27 gla55_: Command line stuff works fine, I think the issue is with GUI bindings Aug 17 12:19:39 lardman: you sould definitely ask Quim Gil good question regarding Java if you have some. Aug 17 12:19:53 gla55_: but I'm not that bothered with that, it just looked like an interesting problem to solve Aug 17 12:20:46 jonek: The problem is that, iirc, ARM want an NDA for the documentation, so I'd either need to sign one of those (=closed source) or Nokia would be breaking their one Aug 17 12:21:18 jonek: I'm not sure how far one can hint without breaking an NDA :) Aug 17 12:22:16 lardman: Is this document of any help? http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DDI0222B_9EJS_r1p2.pdf Talks a bit about Jazelle.. Aug 17 12:22:18 gla55_: good question. I've only experience withe phoneME advanced (JavaME, CDC, Foundation Profile). I don't know if it would be easily compilable with Jazelle support if one would have the required know how, how to activate/integrate it. Aug 17 12:23:26 lardman: does NDA really imply closed source?? Aug 17 12:23:35 X-Fade: Perhaps, there seem to be lots of oblique references to Jazelle in the ARM docs, I suppose one might be able to add all of these bits together and work out a bit more about how it works Aug 17 12:23:42 X-Fade: I'll have a read, thanks Aug 17 12:24:12 jonek: Presumably, as otherwise why have an NDA for the doc containing the information? Aug 17 12:24:29 Which makes me wonder, are there any Java apps that do use Jazelle? Aug 17 12:24:37 closed source ones presumably Aug 17 12:24:46 Java VMs even Aug 17 12:25:29 lardman: because the docs might contain information about other IP covered technologies beside Jazelle? Aug 17 12:26:15 jonek: Possibly, but Sun have also stated that they can't release any source for their Jazelle enabled JVM (partly answered my own question :) ) because of ARM Aug 17 12:26:19 lardman: AFAIK a JavaVM is the place that I would try first for Jazelle integration Aug 17 12:26:33 any source/any source related to Jazelle Aug 17 12:27:14 lardman: right - that's what I read about SUN's open source releases, too. Aug 17 12:28:32 i'd love to know how to correctly invoke BXJ, I wonder if Sun has released any binaries for ARM with Jazelle enabled...? Aug 17 12:29:22 lardman: I seemed to have found a japanese doc about jazelle :) Aug 17 12:29:33 [31:28] Jazelle ..0x1.BXJ ....PSR ..J .... Aug 17 12:29:33 [27:24] ........ Aug 17 12:29:33 .. Aug 17 12:29:35 0x2.BX, BLX.., PSR..T.....PC Aug 17 12:29:43 do you have an url? Aug 17 12:29:50 bring on babelfish! Aug 17 12:29:52 All dots are japanse signs :) Aug 17 12:30:03 http://www.e-manual.co.jp/completed/manuals/405/arm01/arm01/MPCore.pdf Aug 17 12:30:26 I pasted from page 130 of 722. Aug 17 12:32:43 it's probably a translation of this: http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DDI0360D_arm11mpcore_r1p0_trm.pdf Aug 17 12:35:41 if so, it looks like it has the same kind of stuff as the manual for our processor: http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DDI0211J_arm1136_r1p5_trm.pdf Aug 17 12:36:05 lots of statements to look in the Jazelle VI technical reference manual. Great :( Aug 17 12:36:33 lardman: I see references for jazelle and bzj in binutils? Aug 17 12:36:41 bxj I mean. Aug 17 12:37:05 the instruction is implemented and understood by gcc Aug 17 12:37:30 Yeah, but no further explanation :) Aug 17 12:37:46 the question is how to setup the registers, etc., to enable the branch to happen Aug 17 12:38:08 anyone know offhand the exact resolution to make desktop images for the n800? 800x480 is the whole screen... Aug 17 12:39:54 720x480 Aug 17 12:39:57 need to figure out how many pixels exactly are taken up by the UI in each direction Aug 17 12:39:58 IIRC Aug 17 12:40:14 ah ok so it uses the entire vertical res but reserves 80px for the sidebar? Aug 17 12:40:26 kk, thanks Aug 17 12:40:26 You'll want to have a full height image since the top corner is visible Aug 17 12:40:31 ah yeah Aug 17 12:41:31 lardman: http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=4841&pg=1 This talks a bit about it too, but not very deep.. Aug 17 12:41:47 I think that was in one of the emails Aug 17 12:42:34 I made some comments about it in my last post to the maemo-devel list Aug 17 12:44:19 Yeah, I guess you have seen this one too: http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=DWPKAHEW2IYQQQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=16503207 Aug 17 12:46:10 yes, thanks Aug 17 12:46:42 Nobody here with a ieee account? :) Aug 17 12:47:02 define an ieee account Aug 17 12:50:06 Crofton|home: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/9501/30140/01383267.pdf?arnumber=1383267 Aug 17 12:50:39 X-Fade, remind me later, when I am at school and I can grab pdf Aug 17 12:50:46 Not sure if it is interesting though :) Aug 17 12:50:50 X-Fade: I have ieee access Aug 17 12:51:58 I should have it at uni, I may have to cut short my "working from home" Aug 17 12:56:35 where does stmia store register contents to? Aug 17 12:56:39 X-Fade: that paper describes an architecture "similar to ARM Jazelle" Aug 17 12:57:00 jonek: Yeah, weird.. Aug 17 13:03:36 Anyone familiar with debug states on ARM processors? Aug 17 13:04:14 What does the code in page B-22 (268) of the ARM DDI 0222B document mean? Aug 17 13:04:34 what is speed of dsp-memory? Aug 17 13:04:57 same as cpu-memory? Aug 17 13:05:26 just curious - if memory speed is fast, entire snes ppu could be done on dsp? Aug 17 13:08:52 pupnik: Take a look in the DSP gateway spec document Aug 17 13:09:01 ok. Aug 17 13:09:08 though I think that just gives the sizes Aug 17 13:09:11 in general what *can't* the dsp do? Aug 17 13:09:39 floating point Aug 17 13:10:18 hehe Aug 17 13:11:37 the DSP has DARAM, SRAM and SDRAM iirc Aug 17 13:11:55 the DARAM is on the chip, so is presumably quite fast, but I don't really know Aug 17 13:14:02 hmm. how do i check what a package instaled? Aug 17 13:14:25 dpkg --contents Aug 17 13:14:32 thanks Aug 17 13:14:39 well you need the .deb for that Aug 17 13:14:54 there's probably a way to do what you want without having the original .deb Aug 17 13:16:20 lardman: well these emulators really require perfect timing sync, so splitting into processes on different cpus is very tough - but there's a gp2x emu that is working on 2 cpus Aug 17 13:16:37 i just installed becomeroot and i'm trying to work out how i work out what to run Aug 17 13:16:39 might be fun to look into - but difficult stuff - i will just concentrate on learning to port the gp2x stuff to nokia Aug 17 13:17:11 it's a matter of synchronisation, assuming the hardware can process and have some time left over Aug 17 13:17:17 yep Aug 17 13:17:19 rik, pupnik: dpkg -L packagename lists all files that came from a package Aug 17 13:17:23 you don't need to have the original .deb Aug 17 13:17:32 it finds the info from /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.list, IIRC Aug 17 13:17:42 rik i know what it's like to be new to something :) it can be hard to figure out how to phrase questions Aug 17 13:20:06 becomroot's packaging list is empty Aug 17 13:22:28 hardware experts out there, what does LQFP stand for? BGA is ball gate array? Aug 17 13:22:32 rik - i think it doesn't install any programs - just does a patch during install Aug 17 13:23:10 what does the patch do? Aug 17 13:24:08 rik: change /etc/sudoers, iirc Aug 17 13:24:08 <_Monkey> mgedmin: that doesn't look right Aug 17 13:24:19 there were two versions of becomeroot Aug 17 13:24:24 0.1 allows you to use sudo su Aug 17 13:24:28 0.2 allows you to use sudo gainroot Aug 17 13:24:48 I think the first one changed /etc/sudoers, while the second one changed /usr/sbin/gainroot Aug 17 13:25:04 you can check the postinst script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/becomeroot.postinst Aug 17 13:25:16 aha. thanks Aug 17 13:25:50 okay. i have root. now... why did i want it? Aug 17 13:26:37 so you could do EDITOR=vi visudo and let yourself use sudo on anything? Aug 17 13:37:01 hm. that was fun. the n800 rebooted Aug 17 13:37:31 right. i need ncurses and libpcap debs for the n800 Aug 17 13:42:20 how is it possible that a disassembled (ARM) binary contains "undefined" instructions in it's text section? Aug 17 13:49:53 trevarthan: i did run kagu as root. and it seems to have written files to ~user as root Aug 17 13:52:06 heh, mini-patch Aug 17 13:52:22 --- globals.py +++ globals.py Aug 17 13:52:30 - path_a = ['/media/mmc1','/media/mmc2','/media/mmc3','/home/user/MyDocs/.sounds','/Volumes/OSX/iTunes'] Aug 17 13:53:28 + path_home_sounds = os.path.expanduser("~/MyDocs/.sounds") Aug 17 13:53:43 + path_a = ['/media/mmc1','/media/mmc2','/media/mmc3',path_home_sounds,'/Volumes/OSX/iTunes'] Aug 17 13:53:59 sparr: put that in a pastebin at least Aug 17 13:54:06 try pastebin.ca Aug 17 13:54:12 thats a simple fix. not perfect, because kagu is still going to die if root put a db in /media/mmc* Aug 17 13:54:36 sparr: don't run kagu as root. Aug 17 13:54:40 why would you do that? Aug 17 13:55:09 so.. i'm using vi. i'm in insert mode. i'm done typing. where the hell is the escape key in ossu advanced? Aug 17 13:56:17 rik: so sorry Aug 17 13:56:18 :-) Aug 17 13:56:26 use emacs Aug 17 13:56:26 :-) Aug 17 13:56:41 k-s[WORK]: build it for the n800 Aug 17 13:57:00 etrunko: there are already builds of emacs clones Aug 17 13:57:10 okay. how do i get out of vi to do so ? Aug 17 13:57:14 etrunko: port gedit, will you? :-P Aug 17 13:57:26 rik: press escape Aug 17 13:57:34 rik: read the manual, press the first hardware key Aug 17 13:57:40 trevarthan: because i rarely ssh in as user Aug 17 13:58:02 sparr: ssh in as root, then do a "su user" Aug 17 13:58:03 trevarthan: nokia screwed up a lot of root/user separation. dont follow their lead. Aug 17 13:58:12 disq: i rarely do anything as user over ssh Aug 17 13:58:39 i don't either. but you shouldn't be testing or using kagu as root Aug 17 13:58:39 aha. that sounded aniia as soon as you said it. my manual is at home however. yes. thanks for that. i can us vi now Aug 17 13:58:52 :-) Aug 17 13:59:15 if people start testing/using kagu as root, at some point we'll have bogus bug reports that don't really apply Aug 17 14:00:02 kulve, lardman: http://www.zap.org.au/elec2041-cdrom/reference/arm-thumb-instructions-quickref.pdf for VFP Aug 17 14:00:05 i disagree. i believe that is a bad assumption to make. Aug 17 14:00:08 very Windows ish Aug 17 14:00:10 sparr: please. I'm not going to add checks to kagu because you're running it as root. Aug 17 14:00:14 my assembly code compiles now Aug 17 14:00:15 just stop doing that. Aug 17 14:00:41 AD-N770: Good to hear Aug 17 14:00:43 normal users won't do it. I expect developers to be intelligent and know when they are or aren't root. Aug 17 14:00:45 it starts with kagu (well, it started with nokia)... what about when you write an editor or file manager? something i really will need/want to run as root Aug 17 14:01:10 and accidentally reuse some code from kagu that makes bad root/user assumptions Aug 17 14:01:43 sigh. and now i'm in package hell. Aug 17 14:01:43 sparr: no. you're completely wrong here. do *not* get in the habit of running anything but an editor as root. Aug 17 14:01:48 it's a terrible idea. Aug 17 14:01:49 sparr: afaik, each and every app in the n800 desktop (except apt/dpkg, and that's invoked by application manager anyway) runs as user and not as root Aug 17 14:01:59 screw it. i'll deal with this later. Aug 17 14:02:16 sparr: In addition, you shouldn't be logging in as root via SSH. set a password for the default user and log in as user@n800. Aug 17 14:02:38 sparr: the linux way is that you NEVER use root unless you have to. Aug 17 14:02:52 And you don't have to for kagu development. period. so stop. Aug 17 14:02:59 the linux way was predicated on having a hardware keyboard :-p Aug 17 14:03:37 sudoing everything on the 770 is a bit less trivial than on a real computer Aug 17 14:03:39 afk, shower Aug 17 14:10:18 fbreader? Aug 17 14:10:18 <_Monkey> fbreader is a e-book reader originally written for Zaurus platform. Supported formats are: FB2, plain text, html, rtf, chm, plucker. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/fbreader/ Aug 17 14:10:25 just had to grab the url from _Monkey Aug 17 14:11:54 openssh? Aug 17 14:11:55 <_Monkey> i guess openssh is a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/openssh/ Aug 17 14:13:16 nano? Aug 17 14:13:16 <_Monkey> nano is a tiny text editor. Needs xterm/ssh. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/nano/ Aug 17 14:13:45 xterm? Aug 17 14:13:46 <_Monkey> xterm is probably the enhanced version of osso-xterm from maemo-hackers. It adds font and color selection support, URL opening through context menu, and a sidebar with additional keys such as Ctrl+letters. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced Aug 17 14:17:28 becomeroot? Aug 17 14:17:28 <_Monkey> becomeroot is is easily obtained from [770/OS2006] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or [770/OS2007HE and N800/OS2007] http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb or for a more long winded method http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot Aug 17 14:17:32 just had to grab the url from _Monkey Aug 17 14:21:31 _Monkey: xterm is also http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/debs/ for an alternate onscreen keyboard Aug 17 14:21:32 <_Monkey> okay, sparr. Aug 17 14:21:35 xterm? Aug 17 14:21:36 <_Monkey> rumour has it xterm is the enhanced version of osso-xterm from maemo-hackers. It adds font and color selection support, URL opening through context menu, and a sidebar with additional keys such as Ctrl+letters. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced or http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/debs/ for an alternate onscreen keyboard Aug 17 14:25:43 iphome? Aug 17 14:25:50 ugh Aug 17 14:27:29 erstazi: you have heard of /msg? ;-) Aug 17 14:28:12 dev: yes, but I am filling _Monkey with ones it doesn't know Aug 17 14:28:21 dev: is it disturbing your sleep/work? Aug 17 14:28:43 I am actually giving support someone over the phone Aug 17 14:29:08 no, only the quietness of the channel :-) Aug 17 14:30:15 iphome? Aug 17 14:30:15 <_Monkey> iphome is a hildon homepage plugin that shows current IP and TX/RX bytes and errors. Version 0.2 supports cycling through interfaces by tapping the plugin display panel.http://gnuite.com:8080/nokia770/load-applet-run/load-applet-run_0.4.3-2_armel.deb Aug 17 14:30:29 _Monkey: tell erstazi about iphome Aug 17 14:30:39 that saves a lot of channel spam Aug 17 14:33:02 blah, I needed to do it quickly, sorry if I caused mental instability Aug 17 14:35:08 you can keep a query open and just "iphome?" Aug 17 14:35:50 sparr: I know this, its just I needed a quick result and I thought 232 people were just lurking anyhow Aug 17 14:36:25 so skype is screwed... Aug 17 14:36:33 a virus maybe? Aug 17 14:37:10 call feature is not working Aug 17 14:38:01 afaik they have an algorithmic fault in the login server/client/workflow/whatever Aug 17 14:38:08 wonder if they will compensate those who use skype as primary home phone service Aug 17 14:38:47 must not be good for business at all Aug 17 14:40:56 test call just went thru... Aug 17 15:00:12 dang there are great photos on flickr Aug 17 15:29:20 hi Aug 17 15:29:20 <_Monkey> privet, frosty Aug 17 15:29:35 sorry? Aug 17 15:30:58 it's a bot.. Aug 17 15:31:06 _Monkey: are you a bot? Aug 17 15:31:06 <_Monkey> kulve: wish i knew Aug 17 15:31:26 _Monkey: Are you a dolt? Aug 17 15:31:27 <_Monkey> zuh: no idea Aug 17 15:31:38 zuh? Aug 17 15:31:48 What? Aug 17 15:31:51 kulve? Aug 17 15:31:52 <_Monkey> i think kulve is the one that _monkey flings poo at Aug 17 15:32:00 that.. Aug 17 15:32:05 haha Aug 17 15:33:40 zuh? Aug 17 15:33:40 <_Monkey> you are not comprehensible nor edible Aug 17 15:38:07 I have an OS2007HE/770/mplayer problem Aug 17 15:38:13 _Monkey, are you sucking bananas for nickels again? Aug 17 15:38:14 <_Monkey> luria: no idea Aug 17 15:38:21 in that, I can't get mplayer to work on my 770 on OS2007HE Aug 17 15:38:55 _Monkey, you were so high you don't remember, huh? Aug 17 15:38:56 <_Monkey> i haven't a clue, luria Aug 17 15:39:44 frosty: what is the issue? Aug 17 15:40:04 frosty: what errors do you receive or what is the response when you try to install mplayer? Aug 17 15:40:09 well, to begin with, I just installed the latest mplayer, from the repos Aug 17 15:40:16 which looks like it was an n800 one Aug 17 15:40:23 the gui would work, but nothing would open in it Aug 17 15:40:46 frosty: what would you try viewing through mplayer? Aug 17 15:40:55 and when I tried running it from xterm, I got an.... illegal... can't remember :/ Aug 17 15:41:09 segfault? Aug 17 15:41:27 I got a segfault when I installed the latest 770 deb instead Aug 17 15:41:35 ok Aug 17 15:41:41 with that, there's no menu entry for it, and it segfaults from the term Aug 17 15:42:08 frosty: ok... one question and this is out of curiosity, why did you install OS2007HE? Aug 17 15:42:46 because a friend who's recently bought a 770 too told me to - and he was right in that it generally seems more polished and stable and things :) Aug 17 15:42:53 and I like to experiment with things Aug 17 15:43:17 there seem to be quite a nice lot of improvements over 2006 Aug 17 15:44:24 frosty: ok, just wondering, you could have dual-booted though, but anyhow, I know of two other people who installed OS2007HE, pupnik and someone else... Aug 17 15:44:48 frosty: the mplayer issue I am not too sure about, I would just try again and make sure its for OS2007 Aug 17 15:45:01 I could have dual booted.... maybe I will at some point :) Aug 17 15:45:13 iirc, mplayer worked on 2006 for me Aug 17 15:45:25 i played an avi that i converted from a youtube video Aug 17 15:45:50 I am not to sure about that Aug 17 15:46:45 i've searched the internettablettalk forums but I can't really find anything on the issue Aug 17 15:48:26 i have mplayer working on HE Aug 17 15:48:36 oh :) Aug 17 15:48:40 one of the older n800 versions works Aug 17 15:48:44 did you have to do anything to get it working? Aug 17 15:48:47 ah, right Aug 17 15:48:53 any ideas which{ Aug 17 15:48:54 ? Aug 17 15:49:01 before it was optimsed i guess Aug 17 15:49:09 sorry, no. don't have it here Aug 17 15:49:31 okay - thanks :) Aug 17 15:49:47 np Aug 17 15:49:55 did you find this out yourself, or somewhere else? (just wondering if there's anywhere i can look for the info) Aug 17 15:50:52 i just read how it was being improved for the n800 hw so i went back to before those improvements went in Aug 17 15:56:07 ah :) Aug 17 15:58:06 is it can be? Aug 17 15:58:42 sorry? Aug 17 15:59:07 i just like typing that Aug 17 16:00:57 :) Aug 17 16:01:10 pupnik: is it right that you're using OS2007HE? Aug 17 16:01:58 i was for a while, right now i don't have it on the 770 Aug 17 16:02:09 still have an image tho Aug 17 16:03:01 righty Aug 17 16:04:25 did you get mplayer working? Aug 17 16:05:23 i can't remember :/ i think the it2006 mplayer works Aug 17 16:09:31 My god, I wish the damn App Manager would at least tell me what repos the refresh fails on ... Aug 17 16:12:04 howdy! Aug 17 16:12:25 hello aoirthoir39 Aug 17 16:12:36 howdy erstazi! Aug 17 16:13:06 i installed icebreaker and tuxpuck on my computer Aug 17 16:13:16 ie my nokia Aug 17 16:13:27 ok Aug 17 16:13:46 are those games? Aug 17 16:14:07 yes Aug 17 16:14:13 i dont know wtf icebreaker does Aug 17 16:14:19 kinda dull games but kinda fun Aug 17 16:14:23 i want tux racer:) Aug 17 16:14:29 Has anyone used GtkNotebook? Why doesn't my tab bar scroll when I press the scroll arrows? Aug 17 16:14:45 Mikho: is that a text editor? Aug 17 16:14:50 the scroll button animates alright but the notebook data doesn't change Aug 17 16:14:59 I suggest maemopad (not maemopad+) Aug 17 16:15:03 erstazi, it's a Gtk widget Aug 17 16:15:08 ok nevermind then Aug 17 16:15:31 whats taht old kinda widget from UNIX Aug 17 16:18:10 aoirthoir39: http://tinyurl.com/352ovr Aug 17 16:18:42 erstazi, thanks! Aug 17 16:18:51 np Aug 17 16:21:47 is there something wrong with libglade created GtkNotebooks perhaps? Aug 17 16:21:56 right. Aug 17 16:21:59 i'm home. Aug 17 16:22:10 now i can play with my n800 with real internet, and get stuff done. Aug 17 16:22:55 muahahahaha! it works:) Aug 17 16:23:00 im going to add it make it more Aug 17 16:23:01 aoirthoir39: heh Aug 17 16:24:11 why connecting the USB cable to a Debian Linux PC, only one SD card is visible by the PC? Aug 17 16:24:25 is it the right behaviour? Aug 17 16:25:08 from syslog I can see only /dev/sda1 is created Aug 17 16:25:27 muahahaha! 480 minutes! Aug 17 16:25:56 ok this isnt going to work so well to view pdfs..at least big ones Aug 17 16:26:17 but i think i am going to write a nice little tarot website for it (well more oracle cards site) so that I can flip through the cards that come up Aug 17 16:31:19 hm Aug 17 16:40:12 so, i have dropbear running. i wonder what's stopping me ssh'ing in. Aug 17 16:42:12 rik: root rootme Aug 17 16:42:20 restart first Aug 17 16:46:08 wha? Aug 17 16:47:15 root, rootme do. you know i root you. i'll always be true. so pleeeeeeease.... rootme do... Aug 17 16:50:01 * rik looks at OS version. Aug 17 16:50:03 back Aug 17 16:50:28 so, uh, Tablet OS 2007 Version 2.2007.51-7... that's old, isn't it? Aug 17 16:52:45 will updating to 4.2007.26-8 trash all the data i've already got on there? Aug 17 16:52:48 * pupnik does not know Aug 17 16:53:01 oh that? yes Aug 17 16:53:14 except that you should put your data on sd Aug 17 16:53:49 re Aug 17 16:53:54 you can use backup utility to backup MyDocs and settings Aug 17 16:54:05 i think i'll do that. Aug 17 16:54:16 not that i've done much, just install a few apps, trying to get stuff working. Aug 17 16:55:02 i hope it has been fun so far :) Aug 17 16:55:11 i set mine to not time out for 7800 minutes or something Aug 17 16:55:33 being new to an OS can be stressful Aug 17 16:56:03 if you move your pointer up and down on the slider for the manual dimming..its pretty neat lookin Aug 17 16:56:06 well, i know what i'm trying to do, but it's the finding of repositories that everyone else knows about that i haven't done yet. Aug 17 16:56:16 kismet is what i want to get working. Aug 17 16:56:25 it seems to be more stable on latest version, aparently. Aug 17 16:56:39 i played kismet when I was a kid Aug 17 16:56:51 it is a game like yatzee..what does your kismet do rik ? Aug 17 16:57:22 wireless network security analysis stuff Aug 17 16:58:35 by the way, this is a good overview of setting up the Usual stuff (rootme, repos, apps) after reflashing : http://mg.pov.lt/770/reflash-n800.html Aug 17 16:58:45 someone's personal notes, but good in general Aug 17 16:58:51 thanks. Aug 17 16:58:56 ah cool Aug 17 16:59:03 thanks ajturner Aug 17 17:00:39 ajturner: I'm glad you like it Aug 17 17:01:31 hey mgedmin- indeed, got me root again after reflashing ;) Aug 17 17:01:44 and now makes sense that it's Mg Nokia 800 and not "My Nokia..." Aug 17 17:02:02 I think more little tutorials/listings like this would be really useful Aug 17 17:02:26 for getting new people up to speed, reminding me if I didn't write it down, and also sharing cool tips and apps w/ one another Aug 17 17:02:41 mgedmin, you shouldl check out the site that ajturner is telling us about..its a great site! Aug 17 17:03:03 the gal that wrote it is frickin awesome Aug 17 17:06:02 ajturner: what site is that? Aug 17 17:06:37 http://mg.pov.lt/770/reflash-n800.html Aug 17 17:06:51 Is there anyone here who's seen GtkNotebook scroll arrows work properly? Aug 17 17:07:27 /lastlog mgedmin Aug 17 17:07:44 what site? Aug 17 17:07:45 <_Monkey> i guess site is a site that sells one item per day until it is sold out. usually at ridiculously low prices Aug 17 17:08:03 ajturner: ah yes, this is a good one Aug 17 17:08:11 qgil: thanks Aug 17 17:08:24 if there a reason to use dropbear instead of openssh or vice versa?@ Aug 17 17:08:31 mgedmin: oh, the master is also here - thanks to you :) Aug 17 17:08:32 aoirthoir39: I know, I wrote it (even though I'm a guy and not a gal) Aug 17 17:08:47 rik: I use openssh because I'm familiar with it Aug 17 17:08:57 rik: I've heard dropbear is smaller/needs less resources Aug 17 17:09:05 timeless: you around? Aug 17 17:09:10 mgedmin, ah you wrote it! Aug 17 17:09:15 'k Aug 17 17:09:31 mgedmin, that's ok I use terms guy and gal, dude, he/she etc interchangeably...when the gender of the person is not known Aug 17 17:10:28 oh mg.pov.lt Aug 17 17:10:35 no problem, other than I thought you were referring to some other site :) Aug 17 17:14:03 no same site, its pretty good g Aug 17 17:14:21 (another reason I sometimes say G..folks think I mean gangsta but I mean gal/guy...since g can be both) Aug 17 17:16:52 brb Aug 17 17:17:39 brb got to loo Aug 17 17:20:23 _Monkey: forget site Aug 17 17:20:23 <_Monkey> sp3000: I forgot site Aug 17 17:21:33 is it impossible to run skype on the n700? Aug 17 17:21:50 any fast feedback about http://maemo.org/community/wiki/bugsmaemoorgreorg/ ? Aug 17 17:22:54 n770 even Aug 17 17:24:09 qgil: I like it a lot Aug 17 17:24:31 mgedmin: cool Aug 17 17:25:40 could i try the os2007 hacker edition? Aug 17 17:26:53 qgil: themes is a bit hidden under desktop, but given useful descriptions or a slightly deep listing that could work Aug 17 17:27:05 I'm not sure what desktop / user interaction is for Aug 17 17:27:35 sp3000: yeah, this Desktop is a bit weak Aug 17 17:27:48 I'd look for imageviewer under apps Aug 17 17:28:10 I think multimedia as it is now should merge with apps Aug 17 17:28:25 what happens is that "Hildon" makes more sense but from a user point of view this tells nothing Aug 17 17:28:59 what we are planning to do do is split Hildon between components at "desktop" and "system software" Aug 17 17:29:04 desktop / home and desktop / seems fine Aug 17 17:29:47 desktop / UI tries to be about those more abstract actions i.e. behavior of windows, scroll bars, etc Aug 17 17:30:05 hmm Aug 17 17:30:05 imageviewer yes, makes sense - /me likes Aug 17 17:31:02 ok so "desktop" is a bit of "desktop" and a bit of "widgetry" Aug 17 17:31:59 yeah Aug 17 17:33:36 sp3000: imageviewer now is under apps - another planned improvement is to have an alias userid for each component i.e. bluetooth@maemo, wlan@maemo... Aug 17 17:34:06 this will allow anybody to wath those users, which in bugzilla language means to receive notification of anything happening in a whole component Aug 17 17:34:53 yeah, that's useful Aug 17 17:35:24 not that I've been known to watch components on bmo, but so I hear Aug 17 17:35:26 erm Aug 17 17:35:36 * sp3000 slaps maemo and mozilla for both starting with m Aug 17 17:35:54 it makes abbreviating inconvenient :) Aug 17 17:36:14 someone wrote "meamo" the other day in maemo-users - that was funny from a Spanish speaker POV Aug 17 17:37:03 me amo = I love myself (interpret that yourself) + meamos = we piss (but in Andalusian accent it's like "meamo" Aug 17 17:39:35 sp3000: so the first round of feedback tries to get consensus from the products Aug 17 17:39:48 sp3000: in the meantime we have to add all the missing components Aug 17 17:41:57 I'm not sure about file manager Aug 17 17:42:00 qgil: would one thinking of scratchboxing PocketSphinx be thought of being crazy and doing such being a waste of time? Aug 17 17:42:12 I mean it contains the word manager but really, it's a document browser Aug 17 17:42:32 I think I'd like it in apps Aug 17 17:43:22 sp3000: do you think that Explorer (or whoever it's called now in Windows) or Nautilus users look at these apps like "applications"? Aug 17 17:44:26 erstazi: I'm surrounded by crazy people - I don't distinguish them from the normal anymore Aug 17 17:44:40 desktop environment utilities is kinda the wording I'd use, given a vacuum Aug 17 17:44:44 qgil: I think tonight that I will do some more scratchboxing Aug 17 17:45:07 would you sp3000 and qgil would like to test it if I get it working? Aug 17 17:45:14 but I certainly don't think of organizing files as system management Aug 17 17:45:14 qgil: I think it is plausible to expect that everything you launch from the applications menu has bugs under "applications" Aug 17 17:46:35 mgedmin: the problem of tiying bugzilla structure to UI structure is that one day comes the UI team and changes the structure in the device and... what? Aug 17 17:47:03 lots of fun :) Aug 17 17:47:08 mgedmin: mysefl was a defender of this principle until I got this convincing argument Aug 17 17:47:34 presumably the ui org has roots that can be retraced to generate bug org :) Aug 17 17:48:09 https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=N800&component=File+Manager&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporte Aug 17 17:48:10 to some extent anyhow Aug 17 17:48:22 these are the bugs for "file manager" in the n800 now Aug 17 17:48:33 they are few and in fact most would belong to other components Aug 17 17:48:52 so perhaps it's not that big issue to start with file manager there Aug 17 17:49:06 and then move the component to a different product is doable - if needed Aug 17 17:49:20 that's ok, people whose backends' bugs tend to manifest in filemanager can watch that and triage to where-ever they like Aug 17 17:49:45 sp3000: but then one day we have n devices that follow x different UI structures. what we do then? ;) Aug 17 17:50:36 hire a student to review new bug reports and assign them to proper components? Aug 17 17:50:42 well, the chance of one or the other matching is nonzero regardless of whether we make one match ;) Aug 17 17:50:58 so avoiding the same structure may not be feasible :P Aug 17 17:51:47 anyhow, file organizing doesn't sound system managementey to me, nor does handwriting really Aug 17 17:51:52 utilities/tools/something? Aug 17 17:52:07 anyway, it is also proven that the first product in the list tends to get most of the unclear bugs - we were lucky having "A-pplications", which is not a bad default Aug 17 17:52:11 tools could be anything though Aug 17 17:52:37 utilities would seem to apply to fm, hwr, cpl, appman, b/r pretty nicely Aug 17 17:53:13 of course you get a certain pull from some of the components under apps in that case, it's kinda hard to pind everything in one or the other Aug 17 17:53:21 s/pind/pin/ Aug 17 17:53:21 sp3000 meant: of course you get a certain pull from some of the components under apps in that case, it's kinda hard to pin everything in one or the other Aug 17 17:53:27 * sp3000 slaps infobot Aug 17 17:53:48 * mgedmin never quite gets the difference between "tools" and "utilities" Aug 17 17:53:55 infobot: you're also an anti-substitution zealot Aug 17 17:54:03 mgedmin: you are not alone Aug 17 17:54:37 tools sounds like something that would eat up dev tools so that's kinda out in my mind Aug 17 17:55:03 alright, need to go now for a while but please leave feedback here or in the wiki or... - thanks so much! Aug 17 17:55:23 i will integrate the saucy changes Aug 17 18:03:20 kulve: You about? Aug 17 18:04:08 kulve: What do you reckon about using mmap rather than bulk transfer. Thinking about it, I wonder if that would tread on the toes (and data) of any other tasks that might be running Aug 17 18:24:08 milhouse: you here? Aug 17 18:28:19 Hello Aug 17 18:28:19 <_Monkey> bonjour, Silent1mark Aug 17 18:28:51 What's up? Aug 17 18:29:26 Has any one tried to get dosbox running on the 770/800 ? Aug 17 18:30:05 I'm surprised by the http://maemo.org/news/ algorythm, it's quite clever even when people is not favoriting much Aug 17 18:30:14 http://pupnik.de/dosbox.html Aug 17 18:31:54 pupnik: Oh wow thanks. This is cool. Now if my 770 hadn't WSoD last night I'd really be thrilled! Aug 17 18:32:59 it's pretty slow Aug 17 18:36:29 Awww man, any idea the cause of the slowness? Aug 17 18:40:53 i don't know how to answer that Aug 17 18:41:06 if you're asking how much it could be optimized by me, maybe 4% or so Aug 17 18:41:50 heys guys! Aug 17 18:42:01 is there a package that provides xauth? Aug 17 18:42:06 i've also seen a couple of performance tweaks that degrade compatibility Aug 17 18:42:52 xbase-clients, xrsh, xutils, xvfb Aug 17 18:56:16 Silent1mark: if you are trying to run 6 apps, yes, you will notice slowness Aug 17 18:58:00 erstazi: I was talking about the performance on only dosbox. Aug 17 18:58:12 i think he meant dosbox. we might someday get a JIT x86-ARM dynamic recompiler for it Aug 17 18:58:55 Silent1mark: ah ok, sorry, just thought you were a very fresh new user (: never saw your nick in here before and if I had, I just have a poor memory of nicks on irc Aug 17 18:59:41 erstazi: No harm done, I've never been in here before. I came in last night to cinfirm a WSOD on my 770. Aug 17 19:04:08 ah Aug 17 19:05:33 so you are trying to run dosbox on your 770? Aug 17 19:05:39 that actually sounds interesting Aug 17 19:07:15 I want to play Master of Magic on it. Aug 17 19:07:44 ah Aug 17 19:08:02 Well I have to get a new one first. Aug 17 19:10:49 Silent1mark: have you tried taking the source and compiling it in scratchbox? Aug 17 19:11:02 Silent1mark: I might put this on my todo list if you haven't attempted it yet Aug 17 19:12:14 erstazi: Knock yourself out. I don't have a working 770 at the moment. Aug 17 19:12:26 ah Aug 17 19:12:37 Silent1mark: software or hardware issue with the 770? Aug 17 19:13:04 erstazi: White Screen of Death. Aug 17 19:13:19 can anyone give me a hint as to what I might use as a map repository for Maemo Mapper ? Aug 17 19:13:37 google maps? Aug 17 19:14:02 does that work ? Aug 17 19:15:26 Phil770_: sure Aug 17 19:15:26 erstazi: for emulators and games, check pupnik.de/software.html Aug 17 19:15:27 =) Aug 17 19:15:58 erstazi: if you want to work on dosbox, let me know and i'll send you the tarball of current version Aug 17 19:16:55 Phil770_: if you have latest version the help is quite self explanatory, otherwise http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4691 Aug 17 19:17:23 pupnik: I just grabbed the latest version Aug 17 19:17:47 see if you can get 0.71 to run faster than 0.65 Aug 17 19:18:10 the help option does nothing...doesn't even tell me what version I'm running Aug 17 19:19:10 Phil770_: there is a kind of help dialog that appears as soon as you install the last version Aug 17 19:19:18 a wizard Aug 17 19:20:16 ah, I must have accidentally skipped it. Any idea how to re-run it ? Aug 17 19:20:41 Phil770_: no idea - reinstalling? Aug 17 19:20:48 doh ! Aug 17 19:22:22 Phil770_: why can't you run the same way you did at the first time ? I didnt understand your question... Aug 17 19:23:10 do anyone know/remember that x app that can fetch info (e.g size, position etc) about an x window? Aug 17 19:24:27 xwininfo Aug 17 19:24:48 pupnik: thanks Aug 17 19:24:56 MoRpHeUz: I don't get any wizard appearing when I run it now. Aug 17 19:25:26 pupnik: the only thing i always do remember about it is that it should be easy to guess :) Aug 17 19:25:41 I think I might not be running the latest version anyway, there are no updates available in the repositories I am using however that forum thread implies there are some features which I do not appear to have Aug 17 19:25:56 I probably need to add a new repository and update Aug 17 19:26:28 zeenix: i had forgotten it too, but x found it Aug 17 19:26:54 Phil770_: try getting it from maemo.org/downloads/ Aug 17 19:27:20 Phil770_: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-mapper Aug 17 19:27:33 heh, unfortuantely my 770 can't handle .deb files. Aug 17 19:27:40 from here you can follow the homepage, their downloads repository Aug 17 19:27:45 well, it can Aug 17 19:27:52 pretty silly that. But Opera has no idea what to launch to deal with them Aug 17 19:28:10 I know, I could save it and then use the terminal Aug 17 19:28:19 shame it has to come to that though... Aug 17 19:28:38 no, wait - if you have problems with the install file then go and pick the .deb offered in their downloads page Aug 17 19:29:28 Phil770_: do you have the last IT OS 2006? Aug 17 19:30:03 yes. I had this discussion with someone on here before, if you just click a link in the browser to a .deb file it doesn't seem to know what to do with it. Aug 17 19:30:29 although...it's possible the webserver was just sending back a dodgy MIME type. That was UKMP on the maemo garage site though. Aug 17 19:30:57 Phil770_: save deb file and then open it from local then Aug 17 19:30:59 Phil770_: doesnt it ask to save or open the .deb ? Aug 17 19:31:17 MoRpHeUz: can b, bug on mimetype in maemo.org as far as i remember Aug 17 19:31:18 Phil770_: you just need to save and then open it using File manager.. Aug 17 19:31:25 qgil: hhmm.... Aug 17 19:31:38 Phil770_: and I assume that the .install is not working properly for you right ? Aug 17 19:32:43 Phil770_: you can follow the steps in their site - http://gnuite.com:8080/nokia770/maemo-mapper/ Aug 17 19:32:53 My 2006-OS-compatible software (including Maemo Mapper) is now available in the Maemo Garage Application Catalog. Add this catalog to your Application Manager to gain immediate access to Maemo Mapper downloads and updates: Web location: http://repository.maemo.org/contrib/ Distribution: 2.0 Components: free Aug 17 19:38:55 hmm, I was following the instructions on that page but they were deliberately vague about repository urls. Also, on that page they list the repository to use however that repository appears to only have version 1.3.5 (Which is what I am now running) and yet the latest version according to Maemo garage is 1.4.7 Aug 17 19:40:49 i got some flash-wearout concerns regarding maemoscrobbler. looking for ideas to improve Aug 17 19:41:12 http://repository.maemo.org/contrib/pool/2.2/free/m/maemo-mapper/ Aug 17 19:41:28 currently there's a sqlite3 db in ~/, written on every track played, updated on every submit. i want to move it to /tmp or to use temp tables but keep the info between reboots Aug 17 19:41:34 Phil770_: there is 1.4.7-2 there Aug 17 19:41:49 the infor about the repository is not vague at all, see the lines below Aug 17 19:41:57 wouldn't it make sense for flash memory devices to keep track of number of writes and allow the OS to monitor age? Aug 17 19:41:59 what does the 2.2 in the url imply ? Aug 17 19:42:05 Phil770_: Web location: http://repository.maemo.org/contrib/ Distribution: 2.0 Components: free Aug 17 19:42:49 Phil770_: 2.2 = latest official it os 2006 for 770 Aug 17 19:42:54 ah. Aug 17 19:44:05 yep, 1.4.7-2 is in 2.2 but 2.0 only has as far as 1.3.5 Aug 17 19:44:12 Phil770_: then I guess in Distribution you need to put 2.2 Aug 17 19:44:23 is this a bit like sarge versus woody ? Aug 17 19:46:38 will having various different 'repositories' defined with different distributions mess things up ? Aug 17 19:46:45 ie. mixinf 2.0, mistral, 2.2 etc ? Aug 17 19:47:34 Phil770_: to tell you the truth I have no idea Aug 17 19:55:30 pupnik: none of the packages you said exist :( Aug 17 19:55:40 at least on the repositories i have :S Aug 17 19:56:10 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=29&release_id=712 Aug 17 19:56:11 i don't know if xauth makes sense on the tablet Aug 17 19:56:20 maemo mapper 1.4.7-2 for it2006 n770 Aug 17 19:56:28 I got this particular one on mine n770 Aug 17 19:56:57 pupnik: well... it makes since i want to X forward stuff from the tablet... Aug 17 19:57:08 and to use ssh x forwarding i need xauth Aug 17 19:58:41 Phil770_: my last tip to you tonight - http://taint.org/2007/08/17/002350a.html - "Tip: once you start maemo-mapper, click the “Download…” button in the “Repository Manager” and it’ll download details for the 5 most useful map repositories, including Google and Virtual Earth." Aug 17 19:59:18 yep that's correct Aug 17 19:59:33 ih has all the map repos included in 1.4.7 Aug 17 19:59:41 now time to switch off - good night! Aug 17 19:59:42 just need to click on download Aug 17 20:00:34 r3pek: use ssh forwarding Aug 17 20:00:59 pupnik: that's what i'm trying to... bu i need xauth on the tablet for it to work Aug 17 20:01:22 Phil770_ 2.2 is gregale and thats the one I advise to use in repository.maemo.org Aug 17 20:01:38 if you want i can give you my sources.list Aug 17 20:07:08 soolek: that might be useful actually Aug 17 20:07:18 I have no idea what are 'good' repositories Aug 17 20:07:41 a nice wide range of useful stuff that's not so new it doesn't work yet...but still nice and up-to-date....would be awesome. Aug 17 20:08:30 i have mixed mistral and gregale repos Aug 17 20:11:53 r3pek: if you figure it out, that might be a good page for the wiki Aug 17 20:12:25 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php/Networking:Remote_X_sessions_on_the_Nokia_770 Aug 17 20:12:33 that's all i found and it just mentions ssh -x Aug 17 20:22:08 people - when screenblank-timers trigger, network connection gets flaky. often stays flaky when woken up, but disconnecting/connecting helps... Aug 17 20:22:27 can i prevent that? Aug 17 20:24:15 right now, its annoying since my n800 is my only working home computer - unless i put keyboard/screen on the server. Aug 17 20:41:19 Phil770_ http://akson.sgh.waw.pl/~gs20787/n770/sources.list Aug 17 20:43:54 or Phil770_: you could use mine: http://c-wd.net/maemo/sources.list Aug 17 20:44:16 soolek: have you seen mine? http://c-wd.net/maemo/sources.list Aug 17 20:44:16 Veggen: you have n800? Aug 17 20:44:45 pupnik:yes. Aug 17 20:44:59 acmonitor? Aug 17 20:45:00 <_Monkey> acmonitor is a daemon that runs in the background and monitors the power connector status. It remembers and sets different screen brightness and dimming/blanking timeout settings for the plugged-in and battery operation state. More information and downloads at http://pupnik.de/800powr.html Aug 17 20:45:15 avmonitor for 800 also helps keep network alive while plugged-in Aug 17 20:45:20 but not in battery mode afaik Aug 17 20:45:27 ty for the list erstazi Aug 17 20:45:31 erstazi i'm just lookin' the thing is that mine use gregale instead of mistral so there're more updated version of the software for repository.maemo.org Aug 17 20:46:09 soolek: thats a simple switch to gregale from mistral on the ones that are updated Aug 17 20:46:27 I know :-) Aug 17 20:46:41 i usually stay plugged in when using it heavvily Aug 17 20:48:19 high inactive_wlan_sleep_timeout is the trick? Aug 17 20:52:50 don't remember Aug 17 20:53:27 ok, i'll experiment a bit Aug 17 20:54:41 i keep a ping running from the pc Aug 17 20:57:18 mmm, done that trick myself, but wondered if there is a better way Aug 17 20:58:45 I thought you needed the ping running on the device. Aug 17 20:59:12 Does any one own a DS and Brainage? Aug 17 20:59:45 I just foudn an eat hack for it. Aug 17 20:59:50 Well nto realyl a hack Aug 17 20:59:58 But you can turn the DS off and change the date. Aug 17 21:00:08 and boot it back up, and have everything unlocked in about an hour. Aug 17 21:00:33 Veggen: http://tinyurl.com/352ovr Aug 17 21:00:47 thats how you can keep it from going into suspend mode Aug 17 21:01:52 I think thats what you are trying to do Aug 17 21:02:57 Veggen: I basically have mine set up so it has more milliseconds, ... so my highest setting is 60 minutes Aug 17 21:03:37 of course, its simple to change this to 10 minutes when not connected via power outlet Aug 17 21:04:49 pupnik: if I put up a small site for maemo apps and information, can I link to yours? Aug 17 21:05:01 you have done a well done job of maintaining the information there Aug 17 21:05:11 yes pleast do Aug 17 21:05:12 of course, I won't direct link to the debs Aug 17 21:05:19 but the information page Aug 17 21:05:24 for example Aug 17 21:05:24 <_Monkey> it has been said that for example is 0x00 a valid value for a Java bytecode? Aug 17 21:05:37 haha Aug 17 21:05:47 heh Aug 17 21:09:41 _Monkey: afaik it is NOP Aug 17 21:09:42 <_Monkey> ...but afaik it is proprietary... Aug 17 21:10:10 are you doing another dosbox build erstazi ? Aug 17 21:10:30 pupnik: going to in a minute Aug 17 21:10:32 No, just the bot is speaking rubbish Aug 17 21:11:01 _Monkey: forget afaik Aug 17 21:11:01 <_Monkey> erstazi, I didn't have anything matching afaik Aug 17 21:11:09 _Monkey: forget afaik it Aug 17 21:11:09 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot afaik it Aug 17 21:11:15 oops, I thought you were talking about erstazi's talking to the bot earlier Aug 17 21:11:47 heh Aug 17 21:12:10 ok. an hour when plugged in - good :) Aug 17 21:17:09 night all, have a nice weekend Aug 17 21:22:06 eurosport showing adac rallye2 deutschland -- those guys are just amazing Aug 17 21:24:45 btw - anyone seen anything like a reverse bluetooth usb thing? would have to be a mini-computer i guess.... Aug 17 21:25:24 Veggen: you have one? Aug 17 21:25:36 Veggen: do you have a picture you could locate? Aug 17 21:25:45 i'd like it to access my digital camera from my n88 Aug 17 21:26:02 oh, no. i'd like one :) Aug 17 21:26:15 oh Aug 17 21:26:25 eh, from n800 Aug 17 21:26:29 Veggen: I am sorry, this is what I get for not fully paying attention Aug 17 21:27:53 I was just reading all the howto stuff on root access. There's something I don't entirely understand. I've just read the 'gainroot' script and it looks pointless, all it does is check to see if you're in R&D mode or not, and then run /bin/sh if you're not. The howto thing suggests commenting out the checking line...which means all the dan thing is doing anyway is running /bin/sh ....sooo, Aug 17 21:28:19 is there any reason anyone can think of why I can just add su in /etc/sudoers ? Aug 17 21:28:38 since it's a whole 6 characters shorter to type anyway :) Aug 17 21:29:50 i just added ALL : ALL Aug 17 21:29:53 Phil770_: well, are you in red pill mode? Aug 17 21:30:10 can't see how or why you'd want to, tbh Aug 17 21:30:45 oh, someone tell me something which is probably obvious, but, how the hell do you simulate and Esc keystroke in terminal ? I really should have figured that out before I started using vi... Aug 17 21:31:26 the hardware esc ( round arrow) Aug 17 21:31:41 aha, thanks Aug 17 21:38:26 I know Toma- is not here at this moment, but what theme is this: http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/nokia770.png Aug 17 21:38:28 thats nice Aug 17 21:38:32 black Aug 17 21:39:01 i like it Aug 17 21:40:53 I wish I could find something like that, but google is no luck Aug 17 21:40:56 neither is yahoo Aug 17 21:47:53 default theme on n800 is kind of dark like that Aug 17 21:49:09 here is the theme: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1615/NuvoBlack.deb Aug 17 21:49:12 its nice Aug 17 21:49:25 just got to change your desktop's background to black and no image unless you want an image Aug 17 21:51:42 i prefer n800 theme :) Aug 17 21:51:50 with 14pts font or even 12 Aug 17 21:52:39 nicer than nuvo imho Aug 17 21:54:15 anybody wants? :-) Aug 17 21:55:16 soolek: can I run it in OS2006? Aug 17 21:55:57 sure Aug 17 21:56:45 the only issue is that it make a small mess in the control panel fonts however I've just change the view to the List and it's all great :) Aug 17 21:57:05 http://maemo.lancode.de/?path=./themes&PHPSESSID=241e0902b3346daced21a581f66e9906 <- here they are. Aug 17 21:57:32 give a try and see, I like it. Aug 17 21:59:30 I'm currentely using this one: themes-os07-14pt-0.1-1.deb Aug 17 21:59:46 currently :-) Aug 17 22:01:25 soolek: oh I tried those Aug 17 22:01:54 I do prefer larger font (14pt the best) Aug 17 22:01:59 it helps my eyes at night when reading Aug 17 22:04:58 i'm waiting for the new version of the 2007 hackers edition on 770:) Aug 17 22:05:18 i hope it won't be long Aug 17 22:05:45 oh yeah? Aug 17 22:09:57 http://42.pl/u/tV9 (google cached version of the news) Aug 17 22:16:08 Work is ongoing to update the Internet Tablet OS 2007 Hacker Edition for the Nokia 770 to match as closely as possible the latest IT OS release for the N800 and fix outstanding bugs Aug 17 22:16:20 It is hard to predict exactly when the first update will come, but the wait is expected to be measured in weeks. Aug 17 22:19:08 i demand it now. Aug 17 22:19:11 or not. Aug 17 22:35:48 this looks kinda fun - needs 24->16bpp conversion Aug 17 22:35:51 http://luolamies.org/software/luola/ Aug 17 23:05:12 work? Aug 17 23:05:12 <_Monkey> work is, like, ongoing to update the Internet Tablet OS 2007 Hacker Edition for the Nokia 770 to match as closely as possible the latest IT OS release for the N800 and fix outstanding bugs Aug 17 23:05:15 :) Aug 17 23:05:53 gizmo + grandcentral = decent. Aug 17 23:06:04 i hope gizmo updates their client to integrate with it soon Aug 17 23:07:57 mmm,, just got the rtcomm sip beta to work with my asterisk-server today. next step is to get sip through my firewall. Aug 17 23:20:08 re Aug 18 00:17:36 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8937&page=2 Aug 18 00:18:06 lardman|gone: I haven't yet tried it. Aug 18 00:22:27 Plz, anyone know how to make an adhoc connection with a n800??? Aug 18 00:23:18 im geting local ip addres all the time and i cant open anything in the browser Aug 18 00:23:35 that would be another good wiki article Aug 18 00:25:22 Junior_23: uhm, aren't you supposed to get local IP only with ad-hoc.. Aug 18 00:25:39 there's no-one to give that address.. Aug 18 00:26:04 do you set it in the connection manager or with ifconfig? Aug 18 00:26:26 its using dhcp... Aug 18 00:27:09 isn't the whole point of ad-hoc to work without dhcp.. I might be wrong here.. Aug 18 00:29:37 well... when i used a computer to share the internet with an adhoc network it worked fine... but i did the same with the n800 and i always get this... and the connection icon is with a red quetion mark... Aug 18 00:31:00 im really newbie with this... ive get my n800 today... so theres a lot of things that i dont know how to do... Aug 18 00:37:16 i saw a lot of people with this problem when connecting the n800 with a computer-to-computer network... but no answers about it... Aug 18 00:39:54 pupnik: are you still here? Aug 18 00:41:16 Junior_23: normally, I just connect to a wlan Aug 18 00:41:45 Junior_23: does the laptop/computer/whatever allow sharing of internet connection? Aug 18 00:42:16 erstazi: of course it's possible Aug 18 00:42:51 yeah... im sharing the connection... but always it catch a local ip in wal0:1 interface Aug 18 00:42:59 shackan: I never said it wasn't Aug 18 00:43:00 ops... wlan0:1 Aug 18 00:43:19 Junior_23: windows or linux ? Aug 18 00:43:25 mac os x Aug 18 00:43:35 ah :\ Aug 18 00:43:51 no idea how to enable dhcp there, sorry Aug 18 00:44:16 whats the interface that the n800 have to catch an ip?? Aug 18 00:44:26 is it wlan0 or wlan0:1?? Aug 18 00:44:30 wlan0 Aug 18 00:44:57 hmmm... so it isnt getting an ip... Aug 18 00:45:24 Junior_23: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=35821 Aug 18 00:45:37 hi Aug 18 00:45:37 <_Monkey> hey, rik Aug 18 00:46:41 :D, thx erstazi... ill read this.. Aug 18 00:50:34 right. time to install kismet. again. Aug 18 00:53:37 uh. is there a way of installing a .deb but following dependancies using catalogs? i've got the .deb on disk here. Aug 18 00:53:49 ? Aug 18 00:56:59 rik: I was thinking of 2-clicking it from the file manager so it would launch the app mgr, but I do't know if that will work Aug 18 00:57:24 i'll give t a try Aug 18 00:57:39 ((Typing on the N800 is slooow:) Aug 18 00:58:49 I'll have to find a cheap HID foldable bluetooth keyboard :) Aug 18 00:59:04 Bye all Aug 18 01:04:30 re Aug 18 01:24:54 hello folks Aug 18 01:30:54 ello\ Aug 18 01:31:10 hola, alguien habla español ¿? Aug 18 01:31:42 hello, speak spanish ? Aug 18 01:31:47 xD Aug 18 01:39:20 hablo espanol pequeno Aug 18 01:41:34 Blacksitox: un tiquito Aug 18 01:41:42 falo português realmente Aug 18 01:42:24 man, mirc really doesn't like those characters Aug 18 01:43:22 bldewolf, de donde eres ? ( where are you from ) Aug 18 01:43:48 NeoStrider, oh! que bien, aqui pocos hablan español :( Aug 18 01:46:49 si, inglês es la norma aqui Aug 18 01:52:29 NeoStrider, bueno, solo me queda leer nada mas :( Aug 18 01:53:59 hm Aug 18 01:54:06 okay. pim apps recommendations, anyone? Aug 18 01:56:01 shucks. Freedom Mini Keyboard isn't working. Aug 18 01:56:19 Hi Everybody Aug 18 01:59:02 hello Danilo Aug 18 02:00:33 Thanks! Someone answered me =) Aug 18 02:01:05 Where are U from Neo? Aug 18 02:01:33 Hi Aug 18 02:01:56 NeoStrider, Where are U from Neo? Aug 18 02:01:59 Artemisprime, Hi! Aug 18 02:02:11 RJ,Brazil Aug 18 02:02:13 and U? Aug 18 02:02:21 hi Artemisprime Aug 18 02:05:39 NeoStrider, I imagined that... You recognized my name in my nickname.... I'm from Brazil too. Curitiba PR specifically. Aug 18 02:06:30 Are U Nokia's or INdT employee? Aug 18 02:07:06 not really Aug 18 02:07:18 I would love to be one Aug 18 02:07:25 but not YET =-) Aug 18 02:08:06 So I'm not the only one that have personal interests in maemo here.. Thanks God... Lol.... Aug 18 02:08:46 I'm think that everybody wants to be INdT's employee... LOL =) Aug 18 02:09:51 NeoStrider, Are you developing something under maemo? Aug 18 02:09:52 hola Aug 18 02:10:00 holla Luria Aug 18 02:10:05 Luria, Hola! Welcome Aug 18 02:10:06 DaniloCesar: a game Aug 18 02:10:07 <_Monkey> somebody said a game was very funny! Aug 18 02:10:08 angstron Aug 18 02:10:08 <_Monkey> angstron is http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/ Aug 18 02:10:21 anyone used pyro on the n800? Aug 18 02:10:23 let me see Aug 18 02:11:16 NeoStrider, Owww! I knew that! Aug 18 02:12:11 I've just finished it Aug 18 02:12:12 I saw yours messages on maemo garage asking for testers, right? Aug 18 02:12:16 it is now beta =-) Aug 18 02:12:20 guess not Aug 18 02:12:20 yeah Aug 18 02:12:29 still doesnt work well with n800 Aug 18 02:12:40 I will try it now! Aug 18 02:12:49 Ow.... really?!??! Its a shame. Aug 18 02:12:57 What is the problem? Aug 18 02:12:57 <_Monkey> the problem is probably that bash depends on debianutils and coreutils, which conflict with busybox, and pretty much everything depends on busybox. Aug 18 02:13:28 _Monkey: the problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place Aug 18 02:13:28 <_Monkey> ...but problem is that bash depends on debianutils and coreutils, which conflict with busybox, and pretty much everything depends on busybox.... Aug 18 02:13:29 ;-) Aug 18 02:13:43 _Monkey: forget the problem Aug 18 02:13:43 <_Monkey> NeoStrider: I forgot problem Aug 18 02:13:47 _Monkey: the problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place Aug 18 02:13:47 <_Monkey> OK, NeoStrider. Aug 18 02:13:56 and yes, Im selfish =-P Aug 18 02:14:11 _Monkey, the problem is that monkey forgot that _Monkey is a monkey Aug 18 02:14:12 <_Monkey> ...but problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place... Aug 18 02:14:20 or something Aug 18 02:14:30 does anyone know how i get jffs2 support in the kernel? Aug 18 02:14:35 _Monkey, jump. Aug 18 02:14:35 <_Monkey> Luria: excuse me? Aug 18 02:14:38 _Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey.... Aug 18 02:14:38 <_Monkey> ...but problem is that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place... Aug 18 02:14:47 _Monkey, climb a tree Aug 18 02:14:47 <_Monkey> Luria: i'm not following you... Aug 18 02:15:01 _Monkey, thats cause im not up a tree Aug 18 02:15:01 <_Monkey> Luria: sorry... Aug 18 02:15:26 :( Aug 18 02:15:36 NeoStrider, And what do you use to build your app? Pygame, openGL or something like it? Aug 18 02:15:39 jffs2 isnt under the filesystem options Aug 18 02:16:02 _monkey: problem/ Aug 18 02:16:02 <_Monkey> NeoStrider: sorry... Aug 18 02:16:04 _monkey: problem? Aug 18 02:16:05 <_Monkey> problem is probably that angstron looks for the data files on the wrong place Aug 18 02:16:11 _monkey: forget problem Aug 18 02:16:12 <_Monkey> NeoStrider: I forgot problem Aug 18 02:16:13 _Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey.... Aug 18 02:16:13 <_Monkey> OK, DaniloCesar. Aug 18 02:16:13 _Monkey, The problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey.... Aug 18 02:16:13 <_Monkey> i already had it that way, DaniloCesar. Aug 18 02:16:17 better this way Aug 18 02:16:41 DaniloCesar: just plain SDL and SDL_gfx Aug 18 02:16:46 I do the 3D on my own Aug 18 02:16:51 GL is not suitable Aug 18 02:16:58 _Monkey, do you run on maemo? Aug 18 02:16:59 <_Monkey> i haven't a clue, luria Aug 18 02:17:14 clearly not self aware. Aug 18 02:17:22 Its a hard job, hãn? Aug 18 02:18:27 That'd be neat. An IRC bot hosted on a 770. Aug 18 02:19:16 why not? Aug 18 02:19:21 I once saw a webpage hosted on a MS handheld ;-) Aug 18 02:19:33 i think garage is on a n800? Aug 18 02:19:43 :o Aug 18 02:19:46 :-) Aug 18 02:19:48 you lie like a rug Aug 18 02:20:03 Could N800 host garage? I think that it can! lol Aug 18 02:20:26 i doubt anyone would notice ;-) Aug 18 02:20:43 so, no one has used pyro on maemo? Aug 18 02:20:56 _Monkey, pyro ? Aug 18 02:20:57 <_Monkey> i don't know, danilocesar Aug 18 02:21:12 python remote objects Aug 18 02:21:16 actually, I tried mario animated desktop on the 770 Aug 18 02:21:20 and it works flawlessly Aug 18 02:21:23 its a net lib for python Aug 18 02:21:24 you guys know it? Aug 18 02:21:29 _Monkey, Pyro is short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python. Aug 18 02:21:29 <_Monkey> OK, DaniloCesar. Aug 18 02:21:33 _Monkey, pyro ? Aug 18 02:21:33 <_Monkey> pyro is, like, short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python Aug 18 02:22:14 _Monkey, banana ? Aug 18 02:22:14 <_Monkey> wish i knew, luria Aug 18 02:22:22 What is mario animated desktop ? Aug 18 02:22:46 Nintendo's Mario? I think that in US it have a another name.... Aug 18 02:22:57 http://overdrawn.net/mario/ Aug 18 02:23:03 check it out Aug 18 02:23:27 Thanx Aug 18 02:23:48 NeoStrider, forget what I said Aug 18 02:24:30 This has nothing to do with anything, but it's hilarious. http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf Aug 18 02:24:39 (A tribute to the idiocy of Yahoo Answers) Aug 18 02:25:19 How do u unzip on maemo Aug 18 02:25:31 I have zip Aug 18 02:25:32 So, a javascript version of Mario... for iphone.... Aug 18 02:25:41 unzip filename.zip Aug 18 02:25:59 On the cli ? Aug 18 02:26:05 not really a game Aug 18 02:26:12 just a javascript wallpaper Aug 18 02:26:15 I do on cli... Aug 18 02:26:20 but proves that js games can be done on 770 Aug 18 02:28:42 Artemisprime, Do you use N800 or 770? On N800 you have a unzip package. So, when you click on zip files it will be automatically unziped. Aug 18 02:30:05 speaking of the yahoo answers bit Aug 18 02:30:08 NeoStrider, Is not easier build games with pygame for N770? Pygame is simpler than JS to build games, isn't it? Aug 18 02:30:10 it reminds me of http://xkcd.com/202/ Aug 18 02:30:29 I have 770 Aug 18 02:30:41 Artemisprime, OS2006? Aug 18 02:30:46 but DaniloCesar, the 770 doesnt bundle the python Aug 18 02:30:51 I cant seem to unzip Aug 18 02:31:01 Yes os2006 Aug 18 02:31:01 NeoStrider, REALLY?!?!? Aug 18 02:31:01 <_Monkey> os2006 is the second ABI (armel) for the Nokia 770 Aug 18 02:31:06 yeah Aug 18 02:31:18 DaniloCesar: yeah Aug 18 02:31:47 NeoStrider, but you can put OS2007 to run under 770 right? Aug 18 02:32:08 yes...but then it wont be the end user's machine Aug 18 02:32:28 NeoStrider, Yes... you're right Aug 18 02:32:39 Dan; can u help me unzipon this os ? Aug 18 02:32:47 im building costumer's entertainment Aug 18 02:33:08 Im on the 770 now Aug 18 02:33:36 Using Pidgin? Aug 18 02:33:41 xchat? Aug 18 02:33:41 <_Monkey> i guess xchat is a gtk-based IRC client. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/ Aug 18 02:33:43 Artemisprime, I don't know how OS2006 works.... Do you have a cli in your n770? Aug 18 02:33:50 Yes Aug 18 02:34:06 i remember gaim on 770 being quite unstable Aug 18 02:34:13 Dan i have xterm installed Aug 18 02:34:18 xchat rocks Aug 18 02:34:23 sure Aug 18 02:34:25 im using it now Aug 18 02:34:26 Pidgin works great Aug 18 02:34:28 (ubuntu desktop) Aug 18 02:34:31 i started using it under windows Aug 18 02:34:32 On 770 Aug 18 02:34:36 (free build) Aug 18 02:34:41 Are you using a BT keyboard? Aug 18 02:34:49 Nope Aug 18 02:34:53 Luria, I use to use xchat under maemo and its very stable and useful Aug 18 02:34:56 damn Aug 18 02:35:03 Just the stylus Aug 18 02:35:04 whew, I'd not IRC for fun on the 770. Aug 18 02:35:11 tough guy Aug 18 02:35:21 Artemisprime, Do you have unzip packet installed? Aug 18 02:35:22 oh, i use xchat on maemo 80% of the time im here Aug 18 02:35:32 Stylus or BT keyboard? Aug 18 02:35:36 i dont have a working wifi here =( Aug 18 02:36:06 NeoStrider, you connect with happy thoughts? Aug 18 02:36:09 (j/k) Aug 18 02:36:14 Luria, I don't use all time because the maemo's virtual keyboard is not so good.... Aug 18 02:36:29 I simply use the 770 for debugging Aug 18 02:36:36 I have zip installed Aug 18 02:36:37 DaniloCesar, its cause i use a bt keyboard Aug 18 02:36:49 which one, Luria? Aug 18 02:36:54 Not unzip Aug 18 02:37:02 the small thinkoutside one Aug 18 02:37:06 I like the Stowaway, but it's odd. I wish the back of it was of a uniform height Aug 18 02:37:08 Luria, 770 or N800? What is your keyboard model? Aug 18 02:37:34 Artemisprime, I think that you need to install this package right? Aug 18 02:37:43 Artemisprime, http://download.maemo.org Aug 18 02:37:57 and search for zip or unzip Aug 18 02:38:00 Ok Aug 18 02:38:06 * NeoStrider also likes to listen to some music on the 770... Aug 18 02:38:06 hold on they changed the name Aug 18 02:38:13 NeoStrider, Canola? Aug 18 02:38:15 I have zip installed Aug 18 02:38:18 not really Aug 18 02:38:23 just plain media player Aug 18 02:38:35 without wifi, I cant install canola Aug 18 02:40:19 I think you could do a apt-get -d install canola to get the .deb file Aug 18 02:40:20 Artemisprime, And what about unzip package? Have you found it? Aug 18 02:40:57 Nope not yet Aug 18 02:41:00 sully, wrong arch Aug 18 02:41:43 The link u gave me is for repos Aug 18 02:42:41 http://downloads.maemo.org/search/application.html?org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=description&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=unzip&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=os&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=IT2007&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bpr Aug 18 02:42:41 operty%5D=license&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bproperty%5D=status&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&fetch=Fetch%21 Aug 18 02:43:00 Better! Just click on this link: Aug 18 02:43:03 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/gregale/install/unzip.install Aug 18 02:43:23 unzip is able for OS2006 too. Aug 18 02:43:38 Artemisprime, OK? Aug 18 02:43:59 That is the repo ? Aug 18 02:44:07 For unzip Aug 18 02:44:40 DaniloCesar, http://www.google.com/products?q=igo+ultra+slim&hl=en&scoring=p Aug 18 02:44:43 Why you dont use the install file? Aug 18 02:44:47 um, not the mirror Aug 18 02:45:21 on n800 Aug 18 02:45:34 its good, not perfect Aug 18 02:46:26 Luria, can U connect your BT keyboard and your cell phone at the same time? Aug 18 02:46:44 and gps Aug 18 02:46:49 * Bt keyboard + cell phone + N800 (or 770) Aug 18 02:46:56 hummm Aug 18 02:46:59 From where ? Aug 18 02:47:15 kybd, iblue 757 pro, mot v551 (hacked for edge) Aug 18 02:47:18 The install Aug 18 02:47:41 From Nokia's official repository Aug 18 02:48:33 DaniloCesar, all running at once Aug 18 02:49:11 Luria, I thought that BT had problems with simultaneous connections Aug 18 02:49:38 not that i noticed, though gprs/edge sucks in nyc Aug 18 02:50:07 DaniloCesar: are you from any org like indt or embedded academy? Aug 18 02:52:49 Luria, So I never bought a BT keyB because of it. I need of my cellphone's BT connection (EDGE). But if you are saying that U can use more than one BT connection at the same time I will think about buy a KB. Aug 18 02:53:23 i have done gps+map downloads Aug 18 02:53:38 just choose the right one for your needs Aug 18 02:53:51 NeoStrider, my graduate task is about embedded processors. But I don't work with this stuffs.... Aug 18 02:54:42 I used to work with 8051's...but it was a long time ago Aug 18 02:54:44 Luria, Here in my country we don't have many options of KB that works with N800... Aug 18 02:54:58 now Im just doing gamedev =-) Aug 18 02:55:10 Atmel 8051? Aug 18 02:56:35 oh god, im at a cafe where they put the public net with their office machines Aug 18 02:56:55 now, i know the staff, and they dont care - ive mentioned this - Aug 18 02:56:58 NeoStrider, I made a Atmel simulator with archC before. Now I working in a Motorola DSP 56**** simulator and trying to build a gnu assembler for it. Aug 18 02:57:24 Do your work with gamedev? For some company, by your self or just for fun? Aug 18 02:57:31 but i just noticed they have an hp net printer... without a password Aug 18 02:58:18 just for fun Aug 18 02:58:40 Luria, Its very normal here. Some guys still using WEP and thinking that they're safe.... Aug 18 02:58:45 my games are GPL indeed Aug 18 02:59:08 that i can understand Aug 18 02:59:15 but they have ethernet jacks Aug 18 02:59:30 odd, shouldn't any HID keyboard work with the 770? This B-Speech MiniPad doesn't get detected Aug 18 02:59:55 if it is hid, yeah **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 18 02:59:56 2007