**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 28 02:59:56 2007 Aug 28 03:01:43 sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_3.1.sh -s /scratchbox -u dave Aug 28 03:01:46 That wasn't very hard at all (; Aug 28 03:18:30 Anyone know if I can hack an N800 to do 802.1x? Aug 28 03:19:06 Its already got the PEAP/GTC and PEAP/MSCHAP, just seems like a question of UI Aug 28 03:19:12 Hmm. Aug 28 03:19:53 I think you'd need an authenticator, like hostapd? Aug 28 03:19:56 Alternaively is there a way to rip out the nokia network tool and use NetworkManager (with wpa_supplicant in this case) Aug 28 03:20:55 I don't think I've seen NetworkManager ported yet. Aug 28 03:25:37 ooh, someone cross-compiled vpnc, that will work too Aug 28 03:25:47 (/me grumbles about Uni networks) Aug 28 03:26:02 Hehe, hassle the head of the IT department until they fix it. Aug 28 03:26:20 GeneralAntilles: Working on it ; Aug 28 03:27:05 Thankfully my Uni is Radius Aug 28 03:27:21 vpnc performs 802.1x authentication?! Aug 28 03:27:53 No, we run both a VPN-secured wireless net, and a 802.1x one Aug 28 03:28:20 yes, its just as crazy as it sounds Aug 28 03:29:12 It makes a bit of sense. Aug 28 03:29:14 :) Aug 28 03:29:46 The VPN is the older system, the concentrators are just slowly dying as there are more devices on it Aug 28 03:30:17 Well, as long as it'll support vpnc, probably your easiest way on. Aug 28 03:30:33 yep Aug 28 03:31:18 802.1x would be nice though. Aug 28 03:31:34 networkmanager seems like a natural thing to port Aug 28 03:32:01 Yeah. Seems that the Nokia version of networking has *very* similar functionality. Aug 28 03:32:04 Just will probably need a new frontend Aug 28 03:32:12 (but its all just dbus) Aug 28 03:32:22 * pbryan wonders what Ubuntu Mobile will use... Aug 28 03:32:46 Anyone know if there'll be a port of Ubuntu Mobile to N800? Aug 28 03:32:53 ARM, in other words? Aug 28 04:00:11 My scratchbox doesn't appear to have internet connectivity Aug 28 04:00:29 apt-get update fails Aug 28 04:01:42 when a new phone is supported, do we have to wait for the next release or is there an update we can run? Aug 28 04:01:53 Phone? Aug 28 04:01:54 <_Monkey> i heard Phone was for voice and data Aug 28 04:02:31 pbryan: yeah, if motorola releases a new phone, for example, and the n800 doesn't pair w/it... Aug 28 04:03:01 do we have to flash the OS, or is there generally a patch Aug 28 04:03:42 None of the above really Aug 28 04:03:43 Uh, hmm. Aug 28 04:03:44 nsswitch? Aug 28 04:03:51 What won't be supported probably will stay unsupported Aug 28 04:04:16 As far as I know, if the phone properly supports the DUN profile, it should work. Aug 28 04:04:24 I don't think there are patches for specific phones . Aug 28 04:05:24 kupesoft google: scratchbox and nsswitch and apt-get Aug 28 04:05:35 kk. I ask because I put in a bug for my phone, which supports DUN but won't work w/my n800. I'm trying to decide if I should keep it in hopes it will work in the future Aug 28 04:06:42 Hmm, I wouldn't hold my breath... Aug 28 04:07:10 pupnik: ...? Aug 28 04:07:40 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get Aug 28 04:09:29 ah Aug 28 04:09:30 thanks Aug 28 04:09:33 silly me ); Aug 28 04:10:52 pupnik: Works, wonderful Aug 28 04:22:22 So why use the i386 target? Aug 28 04:23:10 i do not - it might be useful for some debugging Aug 28 04:23:28 i. e. it's faster? Aug 28 04:24:51 And do I need to upgrade module-init-tools? Aug 28 04:28:32 hrm Aug 28 04:28:37 bier! Aug 28 04:29:12 does anything prevent me from changing ~/MyDocs/.documents to be a symlink to /media/mmc1/.documents ? Aug 28 04:29:18 and what happens if i do that? Aug 28 04:29:50 should work fine, but YMMV Aug 28 04:30:05 timeless: no Aug 28 04:30:10 timeless: I do it all the time Aug 28 04:41:54 http://www.shapewriter.com/demo.html Aug 28 04:41:58 i want that Aug 28 04:42:02 as a hildon plugin Aug 28 04:42:03 :) Aug 28 04:42:18 their logic is probably quite similar to the iphone Aug 28 04:42:52 Nice. Aug 28 04:42:57 ok. nokia 770 no longer exists in bugs.maemo.org Aug 28 04:43:28 Because the Nokia 770 no longer exists? :-P Aug 28 04:44:11 i think handheld text input is starting to progress a lot Aug 28 04:44:22 unfortunately there are so many companies working towards the same goals and not sharing :( Aug 28 04:44:30 pbryan: no, because maemo.org is a software platform Aug 28 04:44:45 and having hardware based categorizations leads to bad redundancy and lost bugs Aug 28 04:46:52 http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/QUONG.jpg Aug 28 04:46:57 thats an optimized stroke-able keyboard Aug 28 04:47:16 the idea being that you don't lift the stylus, just drag from letter to letter Aug 28 04:47:25 lift only when you reach a dead end Aug 28 04:47:57 or, in more advanced systems, dont lift at all, let the computer figure out where you meant to go Aug 28 04:48:26 timelyx: Makes sense. Aug 28 04:50:47 thank you Aug 28 04:50:55 :( Aug 28 04:50:56 :) Aug 28 04:51:47 next step is for me to fix the haf-qa stuff Aug 28 04:51:50 i'll do that from work Aug 28 04:59:23 I've got maemo up, but it's got no applications installed... Aug 28 06:51:09 um, silly question Aug 28 06:51:22 is tehre a public web page w/ an email address for qgil? Aug 28 06:51:34 (and yes, i could walk to his office, that's not the point) Aug 28 06:54:27 timeless, his email address provides quite a few hits on google, but no "contact information"-page per se Aug 28 06:55:26 timeless, btw, if you're still interested in Harry, http://www.finnkino.fi/movie/1418/?lang=eng Aug 28 06:56:03 i am Aug 28 06:56:30 know anyone else up for it, or is that just for me Aug 28 06:57:51 fwiw, http://swift/~timeless/blog/news/8/ Aug 28 07:02:32 inz: i p resume you can read that Aug 28 07:02:56 in case people are curious, i expect it to be posted publicly today, so it's not really hiding or anything, just draft for comments Aug 28 07:31:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_3110 Aug 28 07:31:43 does anyone else see two bullets before Network: GSM 900 ? Aug 28 07:33:48 timeless, still on summer vac, so can't yet Aug 28 07:34:23 is it really so that maemo app installer cannot install dependencies for package installed from deb file? Aug 28 07:35:07 cosmo: it was a concious choice, yes Aug 28 07:35:18 create a file: repository Aug 28 07:36:12 if i have a custom package with a dependency that is found on maemo repositories, how should i handle that? Aug 28 07:36:26 Morning, all Aug 28 07:36:37 cosmo: upload it to a repository Aug 28 07:36:43 distributing deb file doesn't work as installer can't d/l the dependency package Aug 28 07:37:13 Jaffa: commercial software, should be installable from mmc Aug 28 07:38:36 cosmo: you can have a .install file w/ a file: repository Aug 28 07:39:10 timeless: can it d/l the dependency file from other repository if the custom package is at file: repository? Aug 28 07:39:41 afaiu, yes Aug 28 07:39:48 ok, thanks Aug 28 07:39:55 but try it of course :) Aug 28 07:40:08 i'll let my colleague know (he actually has the problem currently) Aug 28 07:40:39 i still think it's quite stupid choice not to install dependencies for deb package Aug 28 07:40:55 you're not alone, but like the rest of us, you're being ignored Aug 28 07:41:11 so what is the reason? Aug 28 07:41:29 the belief is that everyone should use repositories Aug 28 07:42:06 how about commercial software which cannot? Aug 28 07:42:21 ? Aug 28 07:42:27 sorry, i don't follow Aug 28 07:42:57 if you write a commercial application which you don't want to distribute for free, you can't put it in a repository Aug 28 07:43:18 also users without network connection are another use case Aug 28 07:43:31 think something like navicore Aug 28 07:43:33 so, as i said repeatedly, you can have a file: repository Aug 28 07:44:07 and, are you sure you can't have http auth for apt repositories? Aug 28 07:44:42 i haven't ever seen such thing Aug 28 07:45:33 ok.. thank you so solution for this case would be file: repository with all dependencies in it Aug 28 07:46:26 you'd want to play w/ it a bit, it's not my area, i asked the engineer about it a while ago Aug 28 07:46:47 he said someone was free to work on improving apt upstream to support it Aug 28 07:47:16 it basically sounds like a bug/design of apt not so much of the installer Aug 28 07:47:48 at least ubuntu package installer installs dependencies happily when installing a deb package Aug 28 07:48:10 * timeless shrugs Aug 28 07:48:29 i'm not a debian person, i asked the questions a while ago, i'm repeating hte answers as best as i can recall from memory Aug 28 07:48:39 personally, i think it's stupid Aug 28 07:48:54 but, i have better things to do, and don't quite care enough to hack apt at this time Aug 28 07:49:00 and yes, i've hacked apt Aug 28 07:49:26 if you're interested in hacking apt, contact the application manager maintainer and ask for information about how to do it Aug 28 07:49:28 i think he'll share Aug 28 07:49:57 i think it'll settle for the file: repository Aug 28 07:50:01 anyway, generally speaking Aug 28 07:50:26 deb https://username:password@server:port/repository/path foopy/barpy blah bah black sheep Aug 28 07:50:27 i've got other projects to hack currently Aug 28 07:51:17 but yeah, it looks like apt-get willl challenge you for user/password if it isn't provided Aug 28 07:51:18 hm, that would work if you generate a .install file for each user Aug 28 07:51:27 i'm not sure if you can use certificates Aug 28 07:51:31 which would make more sense Aug 28 07:52:15 that would be a smart way to distribute commercial sw Aug 28 07:53:03 feel free to figure out itf it works Aug 28 07:53:09 if it doesn't, complain to debian :) Aug 28 07:53:22 or better, pay canonical to fix it :) Aug 28 08:04:39 Hi to all ... I try to upgrade my nokia SDK 3.1 to 3.2 but if I follow the instruction the apt-get utility tell me that there is nothing to upgrade Aug 28 08:16:53 good morning Aug 28 08:18:39 we are saving the world sort-of Aug 28 08:18:46 from microsoft-only on pdas Aug 28 08:19:15 no reason to understimate the potential of maemo Aug 28 08:32:31 hi all Aug 28 08:56:31 pupnik? Aug 28 08:56:42 is there any page that describes IT OS versions? Aug 28 09:00:36 you should know that better than I Aug 28 09:00:43 why? Aug 28 09:01:16 well ... you seem to know this stuff Aug 28 09:01:24 heh Aug 28 09:01:34 now i'm accused of knowing things, i'm really in trouble Aug 28 09:01:37 i haven't seen one Aug 28 09:13:31 is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php as confusing for you as it is for me? Aug 28 09:13:45 3. Aug 28 09:13:45 The identification number is printed on the label underneath the battery. The identification number is given separately for WLAN and Bluetooth connections, and it consist of 12 characters. Aug 28 09:14:11 couldn't they have said something like Ignore the BT thing? Aug 28 09:22:13 um, what's 3.1's codename? 3.0=bora, 3.2=bora, 3.1=bora? Aug 28 09:22:33 bork bork bork Aug 28 09:22:42 i'm thoroughly confused Aug 28 09:23:19 Yeah, it's all bora :) Aug 28 09:24:47 what are the public codenames for 1.0 and 1.1? Aug 28 09:25:04 and would it make more sense to list things newest to oldest or oldest to newest? Aug 28 09:25:09 http://swift/~timeless/blog/news/index.xml Aug 28 09:26:33 timeless, I think 1.0 and 1.1 didn't have codenames Aug 28 09:27:17 ok, try this, load: Aug 28 09:27:18 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/1.0/ Aug 28 09:27:25 click the last link on the page Aug 28 09:27:51 eep opp orp ah ah! Aug 28 09:27:53 404 Aug 28 09:28:10 * timeless thinks someone did chmod -r Aug 28 09:28:43 timeless, I think the files are missing from the mirror servers Aug 28 09:28:53 mirrors? Aug 28 09:29:48 timeless, notice the server name in the 404 message Aug 28 09:30:01 i get ossostage.cidercone.com Aug 28 09:30:05 what are my choices? Aug 28 09:30:36 Doesn't cidercone host the main maemo.org site? Aug 28 09:31:07 um, what's 3.1's codename? 3.0=bora, 3.2=bora, 3.1=bora? <--- perhaps it should be "bored"? Aug 28 09:31:34 dpb, indeed it does, I may have misunderstood something Aug 28 09:31:50 I retray to make the same question ..... Aug 28 09:32:11 eject -t ? Aug 28 09:32:13 Hi to all ... I try to upgrade my nokia SDK 3.1 to 3.2 but if I follow the instruction the apt-get utility tell me that there is nothing to upgrade Aug 28 09:32:26 mk8, did you run apt-get update before upgrade? Aug 28 09:32:43 No ... simply install 3.1 sdk ... Aug 28 09:32:59 and after I follow the instruction in the 3.2 SDK. Aug 28 09:33:04 chage the source.lists file Aug 28 09:33:47 After changing the sources.list, you must run apt-get update to download the new package lists Aug 28 09:34:03 the strange thing it is that I try to update apt-get update without changed I obtain several error 'couse the system not found the external repository Aug 28 09:34:20 inz ... sorry for my english Aug 28 09:34:55 inz. I can remove the source.list and retry to update 3.1 environment .... Aug 28 09:35:32 mk8, do you get something like "Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'"? Aug 28 09:35:41 yes Aug 28 09:35:55 The infamous ;) Aug 28 09:36:17 if you want I can post the exact message that I have Aug 28 09:36:37 mk8, http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/MaemoFaq/AptGetFailsToDownload Aug 28 09:36:38 "Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/free/source/Sources.gz Could not resolve 'repository.maemo.org' " Aug 28 09:36:57 ok inz ... I go to read it Aug 28 09:38:02 Bug 1923 Submitted Aug 28 09:38:03 <_Monkey> Bug 1923 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1923 Aug 28 09:38:15 could we fire _monkey and get a useful bot? Aug 28 09:38:25 one that pulls bug summaries would be nice Aug 28 09:46:33 inz ... I must add the IP address to the hosts file. Now the system going to upgrade. Thanks Aug 28 09:51:53 hey inz, you found a skype reporting page, right? Aug 28 09:52:06 how do i contact nokia if my 770 or n800 has a hardware problem? Aug 28 09:52:39 inz: ... now I have an error from apt-get that say "/scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/run/utmp': Operation not permitted" Aug 28 09:53:10 I try to add the maemo user to the root groups but seems not work ... :( Aug 28 10:11:02 inz: I try to reboot my VM image but I still to have this error during installation: /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/run/utmp': Operation not permitted Aug 28 10:11:07 Can you help me? Aug 28 10:12:47 always happy to help our italian allies Aug 28 10:12:53 mk8_virtual: apt-get inside sb? Aug 28 10:12:58 yes Aug 28 10:13:07 try "fakeroot apt-get .." Aug 28 10:13:14 as there is no root inside SB Aug 28 10:13:59 thank kulve Aug 28 10:25:15 hmm, looking at http://www.buglabs.net it seems that we soon can build our very own N800's... Aug 28 10:25:56 btw, take a look at their modules under coming soon :P Aug 28 11:20:44 kulve: at the last I run fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade but if I try to run "dpkg-query -l | grep maemo-sdk-meta" I obtain the 3.1-1 version and not the 3.2 ... Aug 28 11:21:07 it is this correct? I suppose no Aug 28 11:22:56 mk8_virtual: I'm not sure Aug 28 11:23:11 I can't access my SB target now to verify Aug 28 11:23:17 :( Aug 28 11:23:43 but it shouldn't be a big deal. I think the differencies weren't that big in those SDKs Aug 28 11:26:49 hmm, is there no ntp* package for maemo? Aug 28 11:35:17 seems so Aug 28 11:35:58 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472 Aug 28 11:42:50 hmm, the 770 browser using microb is anything but stable imo... Aug 28 12:45:50 hmm, is there no ntp* package for maemo? <--- standard debian one should work fine (after rebuild for armel) Aug 28 12:47:13 Ionakka: ok, any how to for the build-env? Aug 28 12:49:12 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial_bora.html#settingup Aug 28 12:53:22 http://packages.debian.org/stable/net/ntpdate <--- just get the source package (tarball and debian diff), extract it under sbox and run dpkg-buildpackage Aug 28 12:54:06 you might need to change the section from debian/control Aug 28 12:58:04 Ionakka: yeah Aug 28 12:58:12 does my 770 run maemo 3? Aug 28 12:58:36 Ionakka: maybe one should go to a directory outside sb (that is seen inside properly too), and write "apt-get source ntp" (in debian env). Then inside sb one writes "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot". If the ntp package is installed with apt-get or App.mgr in red pill mode, no section modification is needed Aug 28 12:58:41 xorAxAx: nope Aug 28 12:59:14 then i should use the 2.2 tutorial? :) Aug 28 12:59:35 yeah Aug 28 12:59:41 kulve: sounds straightforward, ok :) Aug 28 13:00:43 kulve: i know that, but it is a good idea to make the package installable for even those who doesn't know anything about red pill modes Aug 28 13:01:04 but again, i guess there isn't so many people who is not able to use dpkg but are able to ues ntpdate :D Aug 28 13:14:49 renatofilho: ping Aug 28 13:16:01 Ionakka: i would use the command line Aug 28 13:16:10 and not this weird package manager :) Aug 28 13:16:21 hi MoRpHeUz Aug 28 13:21:51 Does IT2007 come with a good file manager? I use directories to sort and filter information during my day, and I rely heavily on easily dragging and dropping them, as well as being able to pop that information open quickly. Aug 28 13:22:10 sciboy: noy Aug 28 13:22:11 no Aug 28 13:22:29 Is there any additional applications that do the job? Aug 28 13:23:01 I think gpe/whatever has a filemanager? Aug 28 13:23:13 http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/projects/gpe-filemanager.shtml Aug 28 13:23:31 Looks pretty basic though. Aug 28 13:23:40 and the built-in FM can do drag'n'drop.. It's pretty much the same as in it2006, if you ahve used it.. Aug 28 13:24:20 I haven't, I'm really on the border about getting an n800 at least until they make an Australian release. Aug 28 13:27:48 At minimum, I need two columns (or windows) the folder I have open and a list of folders I can drag the files to. Aug 28 13:35:21 I think you need to select the files you want by dragging over them, then select copy from menu, then find the destination folder and select copy from menu.. Aug 28 13:41:58 what is that app that gives you two statusbars of processor and ram and does screen shots? Aug 28 13:41:59 I forgot Aug 28 13:42:35 _Monkey: screen shot? Aug 28 13:42:36 <_Monkey> no idea, erstazi Aug 28 13:43:23 erstazi: you want the bars too, or only the screen shot thing? Aug 28 13:44:10 kulve: both, I had it before but I forgot the bloody name Aug 28 13:44:38 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet/ Aug 28 13:44:39 that? Aug 28 13:45:05 kulve: haha thank you, I just found it in my repos when I was looking through Aug 28 13:45:50 kulve: my problem is I didn't make a backup before I flashed, I did some bad compiles one late night when drunk Aug 28 13:45:55 kulve: thank you again Aug 28 13:46:01 np :) Aug 28 13:47:41 load applet? Aug 28 13:47:42 <_Monkey> load applet is, like, an application that provides a status bar plugin that shows the CPU load and memory usage. It has a small menu that allows for easy screen-shot taking. https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet/ Aug 28 13:47:46 ok Aug 28 14:01:34 i would love to have seen a load applet with both "task manager" and run dialog. right now its either one or the other... Aug 28 14:19:24 buenos dias Aug 28 14:20:19 Blacksitox: Guten Tag. Aug 28 14:20:34 hello erstazi Aug 28 15:29:22 so, who's alive here? Aug 28 15:29:32 ACTION  Aug 28 15:29:36 i'm looking for ~5 people Aug 28 15:30:50 konttori_: ping Aug 28 15:30:57 hi Aug 28 15:30:57 <_Monkey> privet, konttori_ Aug 28 15:31:10 are you familiar w/ bugzilla? Aug 28 15:31:31 and do you have a small amount of time to help people here w/ it? Aug 28 15:31:57 i've kinda limited what people can do to bugs they don't own, and am going to direct people here when bugzilla whines Aug 28 15:32:06 Sure. Aug 28 15:32:09 but i need some people here to empower the good people Aug 28 15:32:17 ok, cna you /msg me your bugmail address Aug 28 15:32:50 (typing is hard, i'm going to a movie... hp) Aug 28 15:34:10 did you get the message? Aug 28 15:34:17 no Aug 28 15:34:23 hey, all- are there known problems with flasher + latest OS2007 + fedora 7? Aug 28 15:34:25 ah. damn. a sec Aug 28 15:34:59 got it Aug 28 15:35:24 flasher is just crapping out for me instead of doing the upgrade, which is making it hard for me to play with microb :) Aug 28 15:35:55 yeah Aug 28 15:35:58 hold on, Aug 28 15:36:17 luisv: um, i presume you're root? Aug 28 15:36:22 yup Aug 28 15:36:24 are you using a hub? Aug 28 15:36:25 well, sudo Aug 28 15:36:29 nope, no hub Aug 28 15:36:37 same USB ports that have worked for past upgrades Aug 28 15:36:45 but obviously newer kernel, etc., since last upgrade Aug 28 15:37:02 sorry, i'm a software guy :) Aug 28 15:37:11 konttori_: ok, log into bugzilla Aug 28 15:37:16 at the bottom, you should see a new item Aug 28 15:37:16 well, it is probably a software problem, just not yours ;) Aug 28 15:37:45 users? Aug 28 15:37:48 konttori_: my blog will go up in a few minutes Aug 28 15:37:48 yeah Aug 28 15:38:09 ahh... cool Aug 28 15:38:10 basically if you think a person has written good bugs, or has written helpful comments and indicates a reaosnable understand Aug 28 15:38:17 feel free to give out those two bits Aug 28 15:38:20 hi. Anybody had any luck getting a USB Mouse working with the 770 ? Aug 28 15:38:21 editbugs is slightly more useflu Aug 28 15:38:34 atm everyone has canconfirm, but they're going to lose it shortly Aug 28 15:40:13 I just added one guy canconfirm. (tim samoff) Aug 28 15:42:27 fwiw, it's possible to see a log of who did what to each person Aug 28 15:42:35 bugzilla is fairly good about that :) Aug 28 15:42:44 anyway, i'm off to my movie Aug 28 15:42:58 the blog post should be up now Aug 28 15:43:07 not sure how long it'll take before it hits planet Aug 28 15:43:22 i'll probably drop the canconfirm default bit from everyone when i get back from the movie := Aug 28 15:45:44 * timelE61i checks in Aug 28 15:50:09 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch Aug 28 15:50:10 anyway, at this point, for people you can think of, just give out editbugs Aug 28 15:50:51 for people you don't know as well, but who file a couple of good bugs, grant canconfirm Aug 28 15:51:08 and you can give them editbugs later Aug 28 15:51:55 the problem i have is that i need people to use guided form Aug 28 15:52:13 and to do that, they can't have either bit Aug 28 15:52:41 but w/o editbugs, people can't reassign bugs... Aug 28 15:54:08 * timelE61i goes to check planet Aug 28 16:01:10 heh, i'm already buried on planet.mozilla.org Aug 28 16:08:27 konttori: see channel log :( Aug 28 16:11:21 what do you mean? Aug 28 16:11:42 ahh... you mean the change log for the edit bugs access Aug 28 16:18:53 I wrote a bunch of lines assuming you were here Aug 28 16:19:35 instead of repeating, which is hard over this phone, you should pull today's log from the webserver Aug 28 16:27:51 movie starts in 4 if you have q's, ask now ;) Aug 28 16:28:26 melmoth: what's your bugmail address' Aug 28 16:30:27 hello Aug 28 16:30:27 <_Monkey> que tal, sbz Aug 28 16:31:05 * timelE61i pokes melmoth rather impatiently :) Aug 28 16:37:05 _Monkey: voy bien, pero no puedo seguir hablando a un bot irc;) Aug 28 16:37:05 <_Monkey> sbz: what? Aug 28 16:39:45 lol Aug 28 16:47:35 load -applet Aug 28 16:48:19 * mgedmin ponders the idea of a lol-applet Aug 28 17:28:46 evening all Aug 28 17:33:32 I'm suffering from brain-fade trying to copy various bits of memory, anyone willing to look at some code and see what's wrong? Aug 28 17:34:50 http://pastebin.com/d46ef2075 Aug 28 17:35:21 the memset alters the memory, but I can't write to it as an array, i.e. shmem[i] Aug 28 17:38:51 hmm, staring right at me, what a muppet I am Aug 28 17:40:17 nice 'for' :) Aug 28 17:42:14 exactly Aug 28 17:42:40 been a long day of shopping with the gf, adds to the brain-fade :) Aug 28 17:44:31 On the positive side I've now grasped how to share memory between the DSP and ARM Aug 28 17:44:42 shopping while you could be coding? pfft... :) Aug 28 17:45:56 It was to be a fifo, but the pipeline stalled Aug 28 17:46:46 and my dinner is being cooked for me, so I can't complain Aug 28 17:55:54 good good, all working, email to follow Aug 28 18:14:39 anybody there? Aug 28 18:15:35 was anybody able to build microb-engine on scratchbox? Aug 28 18:18:11 <`0660> i'm here Aug 28 18:19:26 <`0660> and i'm pretty sure someone has been able to build it as i have it working on my n800 :) Aug 28 18:20:31 :-) I am trying to build microb-engine (mozilla based browser) on debain/scratchbox after checking out the source from SVN (as mentioned in the website) Aug 28 18:21:06 anyway.. do you know how big is it? Aug 28 18:21:21 <`0660> not really Aug 28 18:21:33 <`0660> why? :) Aug 28 18:21:37 <`0660> do you know? Aug 28 18:22:15 nope. just to see if I need to upgrade my memory Aug 28 18:23:15 <`0660> what do you mean by the size? Aug 28 18:23:26 <`0660> size of the sources? Aug 28 18:23:35 <`0660> runtime memory usage? Aug 28 18:23:43 I mean.. how much disk space i takes. Aug 28 18:23:47 it Aug 28 18:23:59 runtime also would be useful Aug 28 18:24:22 <`0660> try du -h Aug 28 18:28:53 thanx, but I do not have my n800 handy. do u? Aug 28 18:29:57 lardman|supper: wb. I tried to take some timings. It seems to take 0.70ms to write 16bits to dsp and read it back using global buffers. Sending hundreds of bytes takes about 0.03ms more, so it doesn't really matter how much you are sending. With private buffers the latency seemed to be 0.1ms higher. But these are very unscientific.. Aug 28 18:59:45 kulve: Good, I was wondering about timings Aug 28 19:00:22 kulve: Take a look at my latest email, re. shared memory Aug 28 19:00:38 pskr: slightly larger than mozilla... Aug 28 19:00:39 lardman: are you able to do arithmetic with pointers? I got very weird results if I try.. Aug 28 19:00:59 kulve: your findings would be worth an email to the list to save them for posterity Aug 28 19:01:09 i can check later, but practically speaking you want a 2gb playpen Aug 28 19:01:15 kulve: Not sure I've tried, what kind of things were you seeing? Aug 28 19:02:19 like: (unsigned long)end_ptr - (unsigned long)start_ptr == 10, even though I know it's 7500.. Aug 28 19:03:05 shouldn't that cast be to "intptr_t" Aug 28 19:03:27 jaharkes: on dsp? Aug 28 19:04:01 sorry I just walked in, missed the actual conversation but saw the (unsigned long) casts of pointers Aug 28 19:05:10 Talked about code running on the n800's dsp side and weird stuff happening there (like a pointer being 23bits and byte 16bits).. Aug 28 19:06:15 today I've meet.... the creator of IRC! Aug 28 19:06:28 kulve: ah, yeah that can be messy Aug 28 19:06:38 (in fact it was the second time I met him) Aug 28 19:06:41 qgil: where? Aug 28 19:06:48 qgil: who? Aug 28 19:06:49 lardman: anyway, I rewrote the memory allocation functions and they seem to print more logical values now Aug 28 19:06:59 in my little office, sitting in my desk Aug 28 19:07:35 zeenix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarkko_Oikarinen Aug 28 19:08:05 lardman: and the best part: I've run the speec encoder now four times in a row successfully without jams :) Aug 28 19:08:28 kulve: No, I've not done anything like that, but thanks for the heads up Aug 28 19:08:34 zeenix: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1459.txt. Don't give wikipedia pointers when you give point to rfcs ;) Aug 28 19:08:57 kulve: I wanted to sort out the shared memory stuff before I attack the tremor allocation code, etc. Aug 28 19:09:14 lardman: and yes, I ofc did read your mail ;) Aug 28 19:09:24 lardman: the allocation part is very simple.. Aug 28 19:09:27 kulve: Congrats on running Speex, how did you relsove your jam? Aug 28 19:09:28 kulve: i know what IRC is :) Aug 28 19:09:38 kulve: in fact the first result was http://www.mirc.co.uk/help/jarkko2.txt Aug 28 19:09:58 zeenix: why did you ask then ;) Aug 28 19:10:12 kulve: i asked who did that :) Aug 28 19:10:35 lardman: poll_disable(task); Aug 28 19:10:49 well, it just happens this guy that created the first IRC server and client back in 1988 knows very well the tablets, since he is working in this project as well Aug 28 19:10:51 lardman: I'm a bit surprised if it's because of that, but currently it seems to be.. Aug 28 19:10:55 kulve: not how IRC works :) Aug 28 19:10:55 I feel like honored Aug 28 19:11:08 kulve: I'm going to need to use that, the way I'm planing to run Tremor is horrid Aug 28 19:11:13 lardman: I tried the poll_exclude before and that didn't help.. Aug 28 19:11:45 is exclude the temporary one and disable the permanent one? Aug 28 19:12:03 lardman: I shouldn't be needing that.. I don't know why it get's stucked without that. It seems that my task asks for a new data and get POLL request and then everything is messed up Aug 28 19:12:29 lardman: disable is the 10sec temporary. I call it always in my encode which takes about 22ms currently Aug 28 19:12:49 lardman: it takes >40ms without any -oX options to gcc and 22ms with -o3 .. Aug 28 19:13:07 lardman: and it the same thing on arm side too with speex Aug 28 19:13:30 * timelE61i really doesn't understand planet... Aug 28 19:15:00 lardman: in other words, currently the speex doesn't do encoding in relatime Aug 28 19:15:03 realtime Aug 28 19:15:15 next step is profiling then I suppose Aug 28 19:15:35 the Ti tools have ways of doing that, no idea what one would use with dspgateway Aug 28 19:15:54 speaking of which, how were you doing debugging of the dsp tasks? Aug 28 19:16:14 anyone got experience with upgrades between 3.1 and 3.2 going horribly wrong because the sbox devkit doesn't seem to provide pkg-config even though it's meant to? Aug 28 19:16:21 Did I see you mention a recompiled kernel? Aug 28 19:16:21 (ps: gahrgahrgarahrhagr) Aug 28 19:16:28 Robot101: erm Aug 28 19:16:33 PLEASE MIND THE GAP BETWEEN THE SDK AND REALITY Aug 28 19:16:41 Robot101: you need to install it with the installation script instead of the tarball Aug 28 19:16:46 Robot101: then run apt-get upgrade Aug 28 19:17:16 oh i didn't actually finish folowing the instructions Aug 28 19:17:17 my bad Aug 28 19:17:17 :D Aug 28 19:17:28 lardman: I think I don't need to do any profiling, since those are very nicely handled in speex already. All operations (mult, mac, etc) are already in their own functions which can be written in inline asm for the cpu in their own header Aug 28 19:17:49 kulve: On the DSP-side? Aug 28 19:18:48 lardman: I mean they are written in asm for e.g. armv4, armv5, blackfin, etc. Now somebody just need to write them for tms320c55 :) Aug 28 19:18:58 timelE6: what planet? Earth? Aug 28 19:19:25 maemo Aug 28 19:19:50 [semi-off-topic] any happy Exaile user around? Aug 28 19:19:58 timelyx: share, please Aug 28 19:20:08 lardman: and yes. I compiled the kernel with mbox debugs (and with included ext2&3). I can provide it to you, if you like. It's easily replaceable with flasher Aug 28 19:20:13 kulve: Take a look at the dsplib Aug 28 19:20:23 kulve: yes, that would be useful Aug 28 19:20:36 qgil: i looked earlier and didn't see my news article Aug 28 19:20:39 but i saw leonid's Aug 28 19:20:48 i looked just now, and saw mine listed as older than leonid's Aug 28 19:20:59 no, wait. eh. Aug 28 19:21:03 pskr: Aug 28 19:21:07 [sanjay]$ du -s -h */trunk Aug 28 19:21:07 3.0M browser-ui/trunk Aug 28 19:21:07 143M mozilla/trunk Aug 28 19:21:09 lardman: what about dsplib? Aug 28 19:21:34 Robot101: if you try to run dist-upgrade inside a maemo 3.1 sdk set up by installing the rootstrap, it fails Aug 28 19:21:44 [sanjay]$ ls -lh mozilla/trunk/microb-engine/microb-engine_1.0.3.orig.tar.gz Aug 28 19:21:44 -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless pg922508 48M 2007-07-12 07:34 mozilla/trunk/microb-engine/microb-engine_1.0.3.orig.tar.gz Aug 28 19:21:50 Robot101: if you do it on a maemo 3.1 installed using the installation script, it works Aug 28 19:21:54 gw280: there seems to be some extra step where you make packages using equivs Aug 28 19:21:55 that little archive expands to be the biggest part of things Aug 28 19:22:00 kulve: Rather than jumping straight to ASM Aug 28 19:22:01 timelyx: I think the garage cron (or whatever) was a bit weak today, last night and this morning wouldn't generate new feeds although the garage news were in the frontpage Aug 28 19:22:01 gw280: but I can't see what the script does that's so magic Aug 28 19:22:07 Robot101: heh Aug 28 19:22:13 Robot101: :( Aug 28 19:22:37 lardman: ah, yes. I think those asm parts can be taken from somewhere (cut'n'paste from ti's site or from dsplib..) Aug 28 19:22:40 lardman: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/tmp/zImage Aug 28 19:22:47 lardman: I hope that's the one ;) Aug 28 19:23:26 lardman: any way, you can easily restore the old original kernel with flasher if you have any problems with that one Aug 28 19:24:03 timelyx: Have you built microb-engine? Aug 28 19:24:07 on debian? Aug 28 19:24:39 pskr: um, i'm only the architect for the monstrocity Aug 28 19:24:43 shall we pretend i havne't? Aug 28 19:25:31 I followed the instructions on the http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html Aug 28 19:25:48 gw280: oh, ugh. Aug 28 19:26:58 I got it from SVN and apt-get build-dep failed. Then I tried ./build_non_deb.sh, but it fails for libIDL, even though I installed libidl-dev, quilt, bc Aug 28 19:27:09 pskr: garage seems dead Aug 28 19:27:15 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/www/docs/build_howto.html Aug 28 19:27:16 is what i'm reading Aug 28 19:27:43 pastebin.mozilla.org Aug 28 19:27:47 if you have an error, paste it Aug 28 19:27:52 I feel more patriotic about my operating system than my country. Hmm... Aug 28 19:28:39 kulve: Thanks, I've grabbed it, will try flashing later Aug 28 19:29:00 Aug 28 19:29:22 hi pupnik_ Aug 28 19:29:35 hi trying to catch up on your recent typing Aug 28 19:29:55 had some interesting conversations with Nokia re the direction of DSP developement Aug 28 19:30:05 [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~/microb-engine/microb-engine] > fakeroot apt-get build-dep microb-engine Aug 28 19:30:05 Reading Package Lists... Done Aug 28 19:30:05 Building Dependency Tree... Done Aug 28 19:30:05 E: Unable to find a source package for microb-engine Aug 28 19:30:20 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1183357408.html and http://freedesktop.org/wiki/GstOpenMAX Aug 28 19:30:24 pskr: a pastebin is a web server into which you paste things Aug 28 19:30:29 it returns with a url which you share Aug 28 19:30:31 the goal is to avoid flooding irc Aug 28 19:31:24 Anyway, time to go, will be back on tomorrow Aug 28 19:31:26 night all Aug 28 19:31:28 sorry. I am new to this chat room. Aug 28 19:32:22 pskr: i don't know - i usually use apt-get source to grab it Aug 28 19:32:53 pupnik_: he has the sources Aug 28 19:32:56 from svn Aug 28 19:33:02 the trick is he's trying to use build-dep Aug 28 19:33:05 well build-deb Aug 28 19:33:14 p Aug 28 19:33:15 and needs to tell it "for the current directory" Aug 28 19:33:24 i think i might do something like apt-get build-dep . Aug 28 19:34:38 pskr: generally, i wouldn't mix using apt-get w/ an svn creature Aug 28 19:35:13 personally, i'd simply apt-get install the things listed in debian/control as depends Aug 28 19:35:19 because i'm not a debian hacker by nature Aug 28 19:36:30 pupnik_: apt-get source does not work and fails with same error. May be microb-engine is not available as pkg? Aug 28 19:36:53 if you wanted to try to make apt-get build-dep happy, you could ask dpkg-buildpackage or whatever to build the source package from the directory you're in Aug 28 19:36:53 Robot101: ugh? Aug 28 19:37:25 timelyx: I have no specific preference. I am just following instructions in that web page. May be the info on that page is not accurate. Aug 28 19:37:28 but you could also just add the repository that has the debs into your /etc/apt/sources.list ... Aug 28 19:37:29 i didn't know you were using svn. when compiling from svn/cvs i use dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot Aug 28 19:38:02 in the root directory of the app (the one containing debian directory) Aug 28 19:38:08 pupnik_: he needs the build-deps first Aug 28 19:38:19 i install those by hand Aug 28 19:38:32 that's what i do :) Aug 28 19:39:14 * timelyx frowns Aug 28 19:39:22 i think the instructions are wrong Aug 28 19:39:30 i'll kick romaxa tomorrow morning Aug 28 19:40:41 timelyx: svn co https://garage.maemo.org/svn/browser/mozilla/trunk/microb-engine -- for this what would you guess I should add to /etc/apt/sources.list Aug 28 19:41:13 will it be some thing like deb-src https://garage.maemo.org/svn/browser/mozilla/trunk/ microb-engine Aug 28 19:41:27 no Aug 28 19:41:56 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras bora free non-free Aug 28 19:42:09 you don't need sources Aug 28 19:42:45 it should be sufficient for apt to have access to the control file in the package Aug 28 19:42:51 maybe add the equivalent deb-src line Aug 28 19:42:54 I already have it in my sources.list. I am trying to get the sources and build it myself. Aug 28 19:43:09 so add deb-src w/ that Aug 28 19:43:18 it should work Aug 28 19:43:37 I have deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ bora free already. Aug 28 19:43:49 that's not the same Aug 28 19:43:55 / != /extras Aug 28 19:44:19 Oh.. I will try that. Aug 28 19:44:26 :-) Aug 28 19:44:38 trick: just clone deb binary lines and ad -src Aug 28 19:44:47 don't try to figure out if you already have something Aug 28 19:47:22 gw280: the installer script makes a load of pretend packages with cat, tar and ar, and installs them :P Aug 28 19:51:23 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. Aug 28 19:56:57 timelyx: thank you. that worked and I got the sources. but fakeroot apt-get build-dep fails saying it could not find libidl-dev, which I installed already (not thru scratchbox though) Aug 28 19:57:16 um Aug 28 19:57:20 you "can't do that" Aug 28 19:57:32 either don't use apt for build-dep Aug 28 19:57:34 or don't go around it Aug 28 19:57:48 personally, as a mozilla developer, i don't use apt if i can avoid it Aug 28 19:58:31 * timelyx tries to remember where libidl-dev would be for maemo Aug 28 19:59:04 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/libidl/ Aug 28 19:59:12 if you did a svn co of everything Aug 28 19:59:15 you should have that too Aug 28 19:59:26 just build the package from there Aug 28 19:59:45 * timelyx presumes there's a script somewhere responsible for building it Aug 28 20:00:20 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/libidl/debian/control Aug 28 20:00:30 anyway, that definitely includes libidl-dev Aug 28 20:01:06 timelyx: you like aptitude? Aug 28 20:01:15 erstazi: it works better than apt Aug 28 20:01:21 but other than that, no Aug 28 20:01:23 timelyx: of course Aug 28 20:01:38 I use it sometimes Aug 28 20:01:45 when i try bootstrapping w/ apt it tends to fail Aug 28 20:02:16 aptitude worked better the last time i triedi t Aug 28 20:14:40 timelyx: what did you say "I can;t do"? OK. I will remove libidl-dev thru aptitude and do apt-get install libidl-dev, but It is failing again. Aug 28 20:15:26 I do not want to use svn one, as I got the sources thru apt-get source. Aug 28 20:16:48 I have a few questions about my new 770. First off, I bricked it. When it boots, just as it's about to draw the home screen, it reboots. Anybody have links to recovery processes? Aug 28 20:17:12 i've seen that happen, then it works on reboot Aug 28 20:17:16 Also, is it worth running the 2007 hacker edition, or should I just stick with the stock firmware? Aug 28 20:17:53 pupnik_: This has rebooted several times. I've even removed the battery and tried again, to no avail. Aug 28 20:18:54 2007he felt slicker to me Aug 28 20:19:09 but more problems Aug 28 20:19:12 DrDabbles: any idea what change you made that caused it to brick. In any case, I would try to leave it on the charger for a couple of minutes and retry the boot while it is on the charger, just in case you battery is close to empty Aug 28 20:19:19 Slicker = faster, or slicker = cooler? Aug 28 20:19:44 slightly cooler and faster/slower in different things Aug 28 20:20:10 but more of a fun thing to try than a stable platform Aug 28 20:20:26 2007he? Aug 28 20:20:37 pupnik_: what problems did you mainly have? Aug 28 20:20:38 jaharkes: my battery indicator was completely full. I'd installed a few packages like mweather, then rebooted because I hadn't done so since installing Canola Aug 28 20:21:25 package headaches and some apps not working stably Aug 28 20:23:57 DrDabbles: possibly a bad application (or bad install). reflashing is your best option. Aug 28 20:24:18 Damn. *lol* Aug 28 20:24:54 Well, if I have to reflash anyway, does anybody have any firmwares they suggest? Aug 28 20:25:28 for 770? Aug 28 20:25:35 Yeah, 770 Aug 28 20:26:01 latest 2006 Aug 28 20:26:04 DrDabbles: reflashing is reasonably painless, the howtos are on the maemo wiki. the advantage is that you get a fresh start, the disadvantage is that it is a fresh start and you have to go through the whole setup/customization again Aug 28 20:27:27 Are there any popular custom rolled images? Aug 28 20:28:16 DrDabbles: my 770 is running os 2006 version 3.2006.49-2 and hasn't had any serious issues (besides avahi daemon going into 100% cpu mode on our campus wireless). Aug 28 20:28:21 pskr: oh, you used aptitude to install libidl-dev? Aug 28 20:28:30 sorry, i missed that part Aug 28 20:29:11 * timelyx doesn't see any reference to aptitude in the scrollback Aug 28 20:30:56 i don't know of any custom rolled images for the flasher available for download DrDabbles Aug 28 20:31:33 pupnik_: Cool. Thanks! Aug 28 20:32:37 pskr: i'm really confused Aug 28 20:32:41 what sources did you get w/ apt-get source Aug 28 20:32:45 and what did you do with them? Aug 28 20:33:24 qgil: ping Aug 28 20:33:32 qgil: can i declassify the mistral bugs? :) Aug 28 20:33:39 it seems a bit silly to keep them Aug 28 20:34:11 timelyx: sorry. I got microb-engine sources with apt-get source within scratchbox Aug 28 20:35:16 timelyx: I installed libidl-dev, quilt, bc etc. using aptitude (thats what I meant by - not thru scratchbox) Aug 28 20:36:28 ok, that's confusing, but ok Aug 28 20:36:48 but while doing fakeroot apt-get build-dep microb-engine, it says libidl-dev package not found. Aug 28 20:37:01 i'm confused Aug 28 20:37:08 why would you try doing build-dep Aug 28 20:37:15 if you've already installed all the build deps Aug 28 20:37:52 I was not sure if I installed all of them. Aug 28 20:38:21 dpkg -L libidl-dev ? Aug 28 20:38:33 * timelyx doesn't memorize dpkg syntax Aug 28 20:43:25 qgil: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&field0-0-0=bug_group&type0-0-0=notequals&value0-0-0=0 Aug 28 20:52:52 can you guys tell me whats the bogomips for your units? Aug 28 20:53:25 125 Aug 28 20:54:42 770? Aug 28 20:54:43 <_Monkey> i think 770 is far superior for non-gaming... but the gp2x is hands down the best gaming handheld i ever owned Aug 28 20:55:10 _Monkey forget 770 Aug 28 20:55:10 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot 770 Aug 28 20:55:13 _Monkey 770 is Aug 28 20:55:14 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx. Aug 28 20:55:33 ywea Aug 28 20:56:39 770? Aug 28 20:56:50 _Monkey? Aug 28 20:56:50 <_Monkey> NeoStrider? Aug 28 20:57:29 _Monkey: 770? Aug 28 20:57:30 <_Monkey> neostrider: i haven't a clue Aug 28 20:57:39 good =-P Aug 28 20:57:50 pupnik_: 125 bogos on a 770? Aug 28 20:58:32 cat /proc/cpuinfo Aug 28 20:58:32 Processor : ARM926EJ-Sid(wb) rev 3 (v5l) Aug 28 20:58:32 BogoMIPS : 125.76 Aug 28 20:58:57 good =-) Aug 28 20:59:03 anyone with a N800? Aug 28 20:59:20 n800 has about 240 or so iirc Aug 28 20:59:25 (is there any api function to query this information?) Aug 28 20:59:42 320 Aug 28 21:00:57 oh yeah ... NeoStrider uname -m will give you cpu info, but uname -p says 'unknown' Aug 28 21:01:01 320! =-O Aug 28 21:01:21 i mean from a C app Aug 28 21:02:24 there should be a way to see /proc/cpuinfo from c Aug 28 21:03:04 (other than reading a file, of course ;-) ) Aug 28 21:03:07 fopen :) Aug 28 21:04:09 you have 770 - that's good. Once it runs fast on a 770 it will run fast on a N800 Aug 28 21:05:41 yeah...it runs great in a N800 , from what I heard Aug 28 21:05:43 but i was a long time ago Aug 28 21:05:56 so I dont know about the newest release Aug 28 21:07:07 when i first saw my friend's 3d engine i thought 'this is never going to work fast enough' but he got it running on a p2 Aug 28 21:08:55 hrm Aug 28 21:08:57 lle2: ping Aug 28 21:10:35 the serial in /proc/cpuinfo is the same serial as on the label right Aug 28 21:10:36 ? Aug 28 21:12:52 what label? Aug 28 21:13:20 i have what looks like an n800, but the serial in cpuinfo doesn't seem likely Aug 28 21:16:09 my serial doesnt match the label, I guess Aug 28 21:18:36 timelyx: I tried dpkg-buildpackage, but got these errors. http://pastebin.com/m67d6c349 Aug 28 21:19:16 so whose libidl did you install, and which version, and how? Aug 28 21:19:35 you do need *someone's* Aug 28 21:20:21 i re-installed thru aptitude install libidl-dev. I did the same for quilt, bc Aug 28 21:20:43 what version? Aug 28 21:20:47 and pastebin what it provides Aug 28 21:20:56 If I try the same within scratchbox, it is cribbing. Aug 28 21:20:57 OK Aug 28 21:20:58 dpkg -L or -l or something Aug 28 21:21:10 i'm confused Aug 28 21:21:18 where precisely arey ou doing this aptitude stuff Aug 28 21:21:27 on the host or in scratchbox? Aug 28 21:21:34 you can't do it on host if you expect things to work Aug 28 21:21:37 on the host Aug 28 21:21:46 you can run aptitude in the scratchbox if you're so inclined Aug 28 21:21:52 OK. but in scratchbox it is failing. Aug 28 21:22:26 arg Aug 28 21:22:33 what's wrong w/ the svn libidl i pointed to? Aug 28 21:22:41 it's part of the microb sources Aug 28 21:25:07 how can I use that? [sorry I seem dumb] Aug 28 21:25:55 it's another deb source directory Aug 28 21:26:03 you buildpackage in it the same way you build package in microb-engine Aug 28 21:29:10 Hi. I believe I'm on the wrong channel, but it's the closest one to what I search: discussions on nokia menus, particularry voice commands, and possible customisation. Are you aware of channels that could help me? Aug 28 21:29:24 timelyx: so should I download the directory you pointed me to? I did apt-get source libidl-dev, but it fails. Aug 28 21:29:36 err Aug 28 21:29:40 what did you svn checkout? Aug 28 21:30:47 OK OK. so you are saying do buildpackage in SVN's libidl. i will try that Aug 28 21:32:21 cya folks Aug 28 21:36:29 timelyx: http://pastebin.com/me6130ba shows the things I tried and the error I am getting. Aug 28 21:37:35 yn Aug 28 21:37:40 apt-get install flex Aug 28 21:40:50 E: Couldn't find package flex Aug 28 21:40:50 . :-( Should I try it in host? I searched at the URL u sent, no flex there. Aug 28 21:41:56 not in host Aug 28 21:42:02 go find a debsrc for it Aug 28 21:42:07 OK Aug 28 21:42:09 and build it in scratchbox Aug 28 21:42:19 pretend you don't have a host Aug 28 21:42:25 Will do. thanks. Aug 28 21:42:26 it'll make your life much simpler Aug 28 21:42:36 and given that it's 1am and i have a vacation to plan ... Aug 28 21:45:29 i found flex somewhere Aug 28 21:45:34 Hi from n770 Aug 28 21:45:36 Anyone able to view this page in micro-b on N800 and confirm if drag scrolling works - it seems stuck in text select mode here: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2691913,00.html Aug 28 21:46:19 mvhtes1: did you disable flash? Aug 28 21:46:43 pupnik_: do you remember where? Aug 28 21:46:48 or Milhous1, whichever Aug 28 21:46:53 Flash is enabled Aug 28 21:47:20 Drag scroll works for pages on other sites Aug 28 21:47:21 pksr it's in one of my repositories - some guy built it - want a PM? Aug 28 21:47:43 Milhous1, how to!! Aug 28 21:47:52 Milhous1: so disable it Aug 28 21:48:10 Just wanted confirmation before filing a bug, could be something wierd going on with that site Aug 28 21:48:20 don't file a bug before disabling flash Aug 28 21:48:26 OK hang on Aug 28 21:48:30 ok people, you're all losing canconfirm NNOW Aug 28 21:49:08 pupnik: PM == personal mail? Aug 28 21:49:27 private messagfe Aug 28 21:49:47 pupnik: Sure. thanks. Aug 28 21:50:11 pm sent - it is in one of those repositories Aug 28 21:50:11 i can install flash on 770 version 8? Aug 28 21:50:12 timeless: disabling Flash made no difference Aug 28 21:50:22 Milhous1: ok Aug 28 21:50:30 be sure to note that when you file ... Aug 28 21:50:33 * timelyx goes back to the site Aug 28 21:51:02 Timeless: Is it the same for you? Aug 28 21:51:48 what is yours group? Aug 28 21:51:50 Gs: huh? Aug 28 21:51:57 maemotube? Aug 28 21:51:58 there is no flash 8 for any maemo platform Aug 28 21:52:10 group fot develop flash...? Aug 28 21:52:30 anyone who buys a nokia n800 can install flash 9 on microb on a 770 running the latest os for it... Aug 28 21:52:56 do sites require flash9? my old flash sites do not Aug 28 21:52:57 back at the desktop now... can't face filing a bug from the n800 itself :) Aug 28 21:53:05 milhouse: bah Aug 28 21:53:15 i did a major portion of the bugs.maemo.org reorg from my n800 Aug 28 21:53:43 my wrist hurts after a while on the sofa lying on my back with the n800 in the air :) Aug 28 21:53:47 milhouse: is this the left or right column? Aug 28 21:53:56 the right column has lots of iframes (or something like them) Aug 28 21:54:03 if i drag the text to scroll the page it just selects the text Aug 28 21:54:13 in the left column Aug 28 21:54:16 the main story Aug 28 21:54:26 timelyx, from http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/6/ ? Aug 28 21:54:41 gs: i wrote that article, yes Aug 28 21:54:48 ;) sure Aug 28 21:55:00 you are timeless ? Aug 28 21:55:43 yes Aug 28 21:55:50 and timelE61i Aug 28 21:55:51 <_Monkey> i guess timelE61i is well, your phone or timeless using a nokia e61i (blueberry) Aug 28 21:56:00 _Monkey, me? Aug 28 21:56:00 <_Monkey> somebody said timelyx was your mac, it has scrollback Aug 28 21:56:03 om ;) Aug 28 21:56:30 milhouse: that page is heavy Aug 28 21:56:37 did you wait for it to finish loading? Aug 28 21:56:40 yep Aug 28 21:56:52 please also try w/ js disabled :) Aug 28 21:56:54 didn't think it was that bad - i've seen worse Aug 28 21:57:00 ok, will try that now Aug 28 21:57:02 you're not using my cell phone Aug 28 21:57:14 my wifi router decided i didn't need to know the password Aug 28 21:57:19 so i can't use wifi from here :) Aug 28 21:57:40 ok, that page crashed my browser Aug 28 21:57:49 disabling js seems to have fixed it now - it drag scrolls Aug 28 21:58:01 ok. well, um Aug 28 21:58:06 re-enabling and reloading... Aug 28 21:58:32 anyway, if you do file this bug, let's make an example out of it Aug 28 21:58:52 i.e. in your description, note that you encountered the problem, you tried disabling flash, the problem still happened Aug 28 21:58:58 you tried disabling javascript, the problem went away Aug 28 21:59:06 yep, js is the key Aug 28 21:59:16 um ok - don't shoot me though :) Aug 28 21:59:18 the next step of course, ideally is to save the page and cut out pieces of content Aug 28 21:59:32 you can try literally cutting the html file in half Aug 28 21:59:37 until the problem goes away/comes back Aug 28 21:59:43 they must be doing something silly with the dom? Aug 28 21:59:50 they could be Aug 28 22:00:07 anyway, ideally for problems like this, you end up w/ a single html file w/ < 50 lines Aug 28 22:00:14 and at most 1 js file w/ < 50 lines Aug 28 22:00:34 i'll have a go, but it could be legitimate (ie. not a bug) if the site is doing something stupid Aug 28 22:00:35 i'm perfectly fine w/ you attaching files to bugs.maemo as you go reducing the problem Aug 28 22:00:44 yeah Aug 28 22:00:49 i don't really mind Aug 28 22:00:55 as long as you show people how to analyze such bugs Aug 28 22:00:56 it's a win Aug 28 22:00:59 let me see what's in the page... Aug 28 22:01:13 microb work fine on 770? Aug 28 22:01:36 gs: it requires a newer version of the os than i run on my 770 :( Aug 28 22:01:48 and i haven't spent the time to fight the dependencies Aug 28 22:01:54 ouch Aug 28 22:02:21 i did it for 3.2007, but i don't really see much point in dealing w/ 2.2006 Aug 28 22:02:23 pupnik: it was in http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free flex 2.5.31-31osso1 [274kB] [if you care] Aug 28 22:02:33 i might as well consider installing 2007he Aug 28 22:02:52 how did you find which repo contained it pskr? Aug 28 22:03:37 i'm downloading microb on OS06 770 Aug 28 22:04:26 7,62M Aug 28 22:04:57 pupnik: I added what you sent me to sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get install flex. the output showed the repo. Aug 28 22:05:24 ah ok thx Aug 28 22:05:46 pupnik: you should be able to use apt-cache policy or something Aug 28 22:06:06 apt-cache show or policy gives a hint but not the repo - just the dir Aug 28 22:07:09 flex? Aug 28 22:07:10 <_Monkey> flex is (for 770) echo " http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free flex" >> /etc/apt/sources list && apt-get update && apt-get install flex Aug 28 22:07:32 apt-cache showpkg gives you the /var/lib/apt/lists/ file that a version is found in, which ironically indicates more of the repo path Aug 28 22:07:43 (along with a load of other cruft) Aug 28 22:08:05 thanks sp3000 Aug 28 22:08:06 sp3000; which reminds me Aug 28 22:10:26 that sky spage is a nigthmare to debug... most of the js has had the newlines stripped and some js is pulled in dynamically... eugh Aug 28 22:10:55 i installed microb but what is the exe? Aug 28 22:11:12 gs: the globe Aug 28 22:11:17 om Aug 28 22:11:21 they mess with some window events but the code has been obfuscated Aug 28 22:12:04 milhouse: yeah well Aug 28 22:12:31 milhouse: got a C compiler? Aug 28 22:12:34 i'm guessing this isn't strictly a bug, just a whacky web site Aug 28 22:12:40 sadly, no Aug 28 22:13:11 hrm Aug 28 22:13:14 this /might/ work Aug 28 22:13:16 try it: Aug 28 22:13:30 at the beginning of one of the js files, add: Aug 28 22:13:33 function z() { Aug 28 22:13:38 at the very end, add: Aug 28 22:13:39 } Aug 28 22:13:44 make an html file: Aug 28 22:14:51 Aug 28 22:15:11 that should give you something slightly less obfuscated Aug 28 22:15:19 ok, i'll have a go - thanks Aug 28 22:15:32 you can then copy out individual functions and try to get the same process to clean them up Aug 28 22:15:52 will it convert function name "aq" into something more meaningful? ;) Aug 28 22:15:57 sorry Aug 28 22:16:06 only kidding Aug 28 22:16:24 mostly it'll reinflate the code ... adding whitespace Aug 28 22:16:37 this is great... function names _A, _B, _C, _D... it's only a freaking sports news site Aug 28 22:16:44 what are they worried about Aug 28 22:16:46 it might be java Aug 28 22:16:54 ie gwt Aug 28 22:17:11 could be - says it's copyright WEBSIDESTORY INC. Aug 28 22:17:21 but seriously, you can start by literally wiping out entire js files Aug 28 22:17:31 you shouldn't need to have to reverse engineer the whole thing Aug 28 22:17:31 _Monkey, see Tony Maro Aug 28 22:17:32 <_Monkey> DaniloCesar: excuse me? Aug 28 22:17:33 though that's just one example out of about about 15 different js files Aug 28 22:17:34 _Monkey, see Tony Maro ? Aug 28 22:17:35 <_Monkey> danilocesar: no idea Aug 28 22:17:57 sp3000: you have grant(editbugs) Aug 28 22:18:05 _Monkey, Tony Maro Aug 28 22:18:06 <_Monkey> DaniloCesar: sorry... Aug 28 22:18:07 if people get stuck, give it out as appropriate Aug 28 22:18:22 k Aug 28 22:18:36 "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv5tejl; es-ES; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20070810 Firefox/3.0a1 Maemo browser 0.4.34 N770/SU-18" "-" Aug 28 22:18:39 cool ;) Aug 28 22:19:01 spanish? Aug 28 22:19:08 yes Aug 28 22:19:14 actually Aug 28 22:19:16 that's uncool Aug 28 22:19:24 the nokia tableteer site won't like y ou Aug 28 22:19:27 yes it0s crash Aug 28 22:19:41 even if we do get them to fix microb support for n800 Aug 28 22:20:16 om Aug 28 22:20:23 * timelyx sighs Aug 28 22:20:34 sp3000: remind me today to yell at them? :( Aug 28 22:20:52 tableteer? Aug 28 22:21:55 yeah Aug 28 22:27:59 I want a SIP softphone for my 770 :( Aug 28 22:43:26 timeless: this seems to be the problem - http://pastebin.ca/674106 Aug 28 22:44:48 sorry, sleepy time Aug 28 22:46:09 ok np... will work on a very simplified case some more Aug 28 22:49:54 timelyx: build seems to be complete. but with lots of scary warnings. How can I check if the build is successful? Should I do /microb-engine-1.0.3/build-tree/obj-edyn-arm-sb-buildgtk2/dist/bin/run_mozilla.sh? Aug 28 22:50:38 as I built for SDK_ARMEL, will it work on pc (debian) or do I need to build again for SDK_X86? Aug 28 22:50:55 timeless: yep, not a bug in micro-b... the web page is subverting the mouse. self contained test page here http://217.155.26.150/public/pda/sky/index.html Aug 28 23:06:19 Hey , has anyone gotten an alternate window manager working on the 770 ? Aug 28 23:07:26 would love to see that Aug 28 23:07:39 I saw some videos of kde , blackbox and window maker running Aug 28 23:07:50 but it was far too complicated to make Aug 28 23:07:55 b..b.blackbox Aug 28 23:08:09 thats my favorite wm Aug 28 23:08:47 Does anyone know how to make Maemo xchat go fullscreen Aug 28 23:09:06 Fullscreen button doesn't work? Aug 28 23:09:10 no Aug 28 23:09:19 Then I don't have a clue. ;) Aug 28 23:09:23 Works on my N800 Aug 28 23:09:30 Don't recall which of the two ports I'm using Aug 28 23:09:34 damn Aug 28 23:09:35 "the one that worked" Aug 28 23:09:52 there is more than one port Aug 28 23:10:07 Yes. Aug 28 23:10:15 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/ Aug 28 23:10:20 I _think_ that's the one I have Aug 28 23:10:28 Don't recall where the other one is. Aug 28 23:10:34 are they both called the same thing Aug 28 23:12:15 Yeah, Xchat :/ Aug 28 23:12:26 I suspect al little googling will turn up something Aug 28 23:12:40 The BAD one points to the good one on its website. Aug 28 23:13:30 hmm Aug 28 23:13:47 is that link the good one Aug 28 23:14:15 xchat? Aug 28 23:14:16 <_Monkey> hmmm... xchat is a gtk-based IRC client. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/ Aug 28 23:14:20 I was talking to monkey btw Aug 28 23:14:57 ekim\770: you have the one that cannot do full screen? there is an Xchat that can go full screen Aug 28 23:15:15 I think that is the one I am using Aug 28 23:15:44 where do i get this "good" one Aug 28 23:15:50 ekim\770: looking Aug 28 23:15:52 I had it before Aug 28 23:16:22 found it Aug 28 23:16:24 ekim\770: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/ Aug 28 23:16:44 I have a 770 Aug 28 23:16:57 will it work on os 2006 Aug 28 23:16:59 ugh. my server had a ram failure a half hour after I left for work this morning. Aug 28 23:17:12 Didn't get it fixed until just now (got home). ugh. Aug 28 23:17:14 ekim\770: I have the same as you (: Aug 28 23:17:28 What's your website? Aug 28 23:17:35 kagu? Aug 28 23:17:36 <_Monkey> well, kagu is http://maemo.org/downloads/product/kagu Aug 28 23:17:57 ah. https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki Aug 28 23:18:07 you made kagu Aug 28 23:18:15 nice Aug 28 23:18:17 ekim\770: trevarthan is the one Aug 28 23:18:34 I tried to help with the theme but unique311 finished it Aug 28 23:18:41 I became to busy to help with it in the end Aug 28 23:18:44 you should make us a new one. :) Aug 28 23:18:50 sorry, trevarthan for letting you down before Aug 28 23:18:50 haha Aug 28 23:18:58 you think you can add podcasting :) Aug 28 23:19:11 trevarthan: is positioning important in a theme for kagu? Aug 28 23:19:22 and UPnP Aug 28 23:19:31 I never did a theme for Hildon let alone GNOME Aug 28 23:19:36 ekim\770: I can, but I've got lots to do before then. You could add it if you know how to code. It's a community project. Aug 28 23:19:50 * pupnik cracks the whip... snes emulator! Aug 28 23:19:56 pupnik: heh Aug 28 23:19:58 erstazi: it is right now. we can/plan to change that though. Aug 28 23:20:14 is it written in c? Aug 28 23:20:14 erstazi: kagu isn't gnome. It's SDL. Aug 28 23:20:23 ekim\770: nope, python. Aug 28 23:20:27 ohh Aug 28 23:20:34 trevarthan: well, not to take your time, but when you are not busy, just send me the information about it, like co-ordinances and what not Aug 28 23:20:39 I can help then Aug 28 23:20:42 yay Aug 28 23:20:48 :) double yay! Aug 28 23:20:52 trevarthan: well, I meant hildonizing but I forgot Karu doesn't follow it... SDL... I will have to read up on that Aug 28 23:20:54 welcome aboard. Aug 28 23:21:13 ill hack around with it this weekend Aug 28 23:21:24 don't get too excited Aug 28 23:21:25 trevarthan: the only python I have done was for server-side (: Aug 28 23:21:35 I am a python noob Aug 28 23:21:40 erstazi: just take a look at the current theme's psd file: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/browser/trunk/data/resources/sprites.psd Aug 28 23:21:45 (click the download link) Aug 28 23:21:50 trevarthan: on it Aug 28 23:21:52 but its the best langage I know Aug 28 23:22:03 ekim\770: python is easy to pick up. yeah. I'm a fan too. Aug 28 23:22:05 ekim\770: its a very good language Aug 28 23:22:13 totally Aug 28 23:22:16 for server-side it is very promising Aug 28 23:22:20 my favorite Aug 28 23:22:34 trevarthan: you guys are using svn? I am glad you are Aug 28 23:22:58 ekim\770: I puke my little programmer's guts out every time I go to work in the morning and have to write PHP instead of Python. :( Aug 28 23:23:13 erstazi: yeah. Big fan of SVN for small projects. And Trac. Aug 28 23:23:42 trevarthan: well, I use php myself for my work... it can be a pain, less object orientated (way less than python) but if you know the security holes, you can work *some* magic out of it Aug 28 23:23:52 but against asp vs php, any day php Aug 28 23:23:55 I like to use bzr Aug 28 23:24:02 bzr is nice as well Aug 28 23:26:11 I've used asp and asp.net and php and python. Python, then PHP, then ASP.NET, then classic asp, in order of preference. Aug 28 23:26:58 I do some Perl too, but only when I have to. Aug 28 23:27:23 man, I wish I could go fullscreen Aug 28 23:27:39 this is bugging me Aug 28 23:27:39 why can't you? Aug 28 23:27:43 which app? Aug 28 23:27:52 xchat Aug 28 23:28:15 hmmm... goes fullscreen here.... Aug 28 23:28:48 really Aug 28 23:28:53 yeah. just tested it. Aug 28 23:28:57 you on an n800? Aug 28 23:29:06 770 Aug 28 23:29:18 oh. Aug 28 23:29:29 that probably has something to do with it. :( Aug 28 23:29:32 I could not afford sn n800 Aug 28 23:29:36 :) Aug 28 23:30:00 yeah, they certainly aren't cheap. Aug 28 23:30:14 cost as much as four sticks of the ram I just lost. :) Aug 28 23:30:36 What did you buy it for Aug 28 23:30:52 the ram? Aug 28 23:30:53 <_Monkey> the ram is a big difference just in terms of the number of things you can open up at once. Aug 28 23:30:59 I think its a cool security tool Aug 28 23:31:07 oh. the n800? Aug 28 23:31:07 <_Monkey> the n800 is much better than a desk phone :-) Aug 28 23:31:14 SHUT UP MONKEY! Aug 28 23:31:21 stupid bot. Aug 28 23:31:32 nmap,kismet,metasploit,aircrack Aug 28 23:31:42 :) Aug 28 23:32:03 web browsing, chat, a2dp, kagu, SSH. that's my reasons Aug 28 23:32:13 in no particular order Aug 28 23:32:21 yeah , what did you buy it for? Aug 28 23:32:30 stop abusing monkey! :) Aug 28 23:32:32 see above Aug 28 23:32:37 a2dp Aug 28 23:32:46 sounds familiar Aug 28 23:32:59 milhouse: put that heap of junk into "speak when spoken to" mode. Aug 28 23:33:07 i think it is... Aug 28 23:33:10 maybe Aug 28 23:33:14 well i could Aug 28 23:33:17 I think not Aug 28 23:33:18 as i guess it's not Aug 28 23:33:22 what is a2dp Aug 28 23:33:22 <_Monkey> i think a2dp is available for N800 with installation instructions here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435 or if you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask trevarthan or disq about Kagu Aug 28 23:33:27 nice Aug 28 23:33:44 if i put him speak-when-spoken-to mode that wouldn't have happened :) Aug 28 23:33:48 him in Aug 28 23:33:53 yeah yeah. point taken. Aug 28 23:33:55 I still don't know what it is Aug 28 23:34:09 trevarthan can explain :) Aug 28 23:34:14 milhouse: is there a "learn when spoken to" mode? Aug 28 23:34:25 the link that monkey just gave you allows you to install a2dp without too much trouble Aug 28 23:34:30 * ekim\770 is listening Aug 28 23:34:37 a2dp is also bluetooth stereo audio. Aug 28 23:34:37 <_Monkey> okay, trevarthan. Aug 28 23:34:43 what is a2dp? Aug 28 23:34:44 umm... i think there's 3 modes - required, optional and something else Aug 28 23:34:44 <_Monkey> somebody said a2dp was available for N800 with installation instructions here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435 or if you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask trevarthan or disq about Kagu or bluetooth stereo audio. Aug 28 23:34:56 but what IS it Aug 28 23:35:18 advanced audio d-something profile Aug 28 23:35:20 damn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2DP Aug 28 23:35:27 trevarthan: don't harass _Monkey, I feed it banana chips at night... Aug 28 23:35:34 and buffalo chips but don't tell milhouse.... Aug 28 23:35:37 oh hi milhouse Aug 28 23:35:39 * trevarthan sulks Aug 28 23:35:53 I still don't know Aug 28 23:36:02 what does it do Aug 28 23:36:09 ekim\770: sucks the brains out of you Aug 28 23:36:16 trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey. Aug 28 23:36:20 trevarthan? Aug 28 23:36:21 <_Monkey> i heard trevarthan was guardiani. It's trevarthan's last name. Aug 28 23:36:26 trevarthan - no, there's only two modes: required and optional. it's currently set to optional. no learning mode. Aug 28 23:36:29 forget trevarthan Aug 28 23:36:29 <_Monkey> trevarthan: I forgot trevarthan Aug 28 23:36:31 Speaking of "listening", is anyone using Kismet and flite and noticing that flite talks over itself even if there's only one network? Aug 28 23:36:32 hi erstazi Aug 28 23:36:32 trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey. Aug 28 23:36:34 why would anyone use that !! Aug 28 23:36:35 bbl Aug 28 23:36:36 trevarthan? Aug 28 23:36:37 <_Monkey> it has been said that trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey. Aug 28 23:36:50 forget trevarthan Aug 28 23:36:51 <_Monkey> trevarthan: I forgot trevarthan Aug 28 23:36:54 trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey Aug 28 23:36:57 trevarthan? Aug 28 23:36:57 <_Monkey> well, trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse _Monkey Aug 28 23:37:01 forget trevarthan Aug 28 23:37:01 <_Monkey> trevarthan: I forgot trevarthan Aug 28 23:37:02 damn, monkey's going to have to go on the treadmill Aug 28 23:37:04 trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse me Aug 28 23:37:06 trevarthan? Aug 28 23:37:07 <_Monkey> trevarthan is the programmer who wrote Kagu and likes to abuse me Aug 28 23:37:10 there we go Aug 28 23:37:16 fine ... then don't tell me Aug 28 23:37:20 milhouse: just playing with ya, how are you? Aug 28 23:37:29 ekim\770: A2DP? Aug 28 23:37:30 <_Monkey> hmmm... A2DP is available for N800 with installation instructions here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435 or if you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask trevarthan or disq about Kagu or bluetooth stereo audio. Aug 28 23:37:37 timelyx: my PC crashed. Aug 28 23:37:49 ekim\770: it's handy. the cords on your earbuds never get on your nerves? Aug 28 23:38:08 timelyx: I asked if you knew how to verify if my microb build was successful. Aug 28 23:39:32 erstazi: i'm good thanks Aug 28 23:39:40 every time I type \770 I feel like I'm escaping a hex number or something. Aug 28 23:39:45 It's disconcerting. Aug 28 23:39:56 trevarthan - did you see the a2dp bug has changed? apparently the current bluez stack now supports a2dp, funded by nokia... Aug 28 23:40:16 bug 474 Aug 28 23:40:16 <_Monkey> Bug 474 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474 Aug 28 23:40:53 ok guys , i'll be back in a bit Aug 28 23:40:57 later Aug 28 23:41:15 not sure if that means it's more efficient than the version we've been using on your site, or if it's the same thing Aug 28 23:41:40 milhouse: I heard about that. I'll be extremely happy if they put a2dp in the base maemo OS. Aug 28 23:42:00 i think that's a must, tbh Aug 28 23:42:08 I guess we'll have to wait for a firmware or two to find out. Aug 28 23:42:37 they need SCO in there too. (think gtalk or SIP via a headset) Aug 28 23:43:23 yep... looks like that might be available too according to this news page http://www.bluez.org/news.html Aug 28 23:43:28 besides, a2dpd sucks. it's kinda unreliable. Aug 28 23:43:57 nice Aug 28 23:44:05 "auto create" Aug 28 23:44:13 pure genious. :) Aug 28 23:44:23 want. now. :) Aug 28 23:44:28 ditto Aug 28 23:44:38 anyone from Nokia: happy to be a guinea pig Aug 28 23:44:41 timelE61i: pong? Aug 28 23:44:56 so, I wonder if this is like, a month away? A year away? Three? Aug 28 23:45:16 stupid question: can scratchbox be compiled on Cygwin? Aug 28 23:45:23 who knows... somethings appear out of nowhere, other things are talked about but don't appear for months Aug 28 23:45:24 cause if it's a year away, then we could still use a .deb for your a2dp scripts and a control panel applet, milhouse. Aug 28 23:45:24 maybe Aug 28 23:46:20 Nokia should make it's release schedules public for bugs like that Aug 28 23:46:23 i would guess this is coming in the next firmware release... or maybe chinook if the next firmware release isn't maemo 4.0/chinook Aug 28 23:46:41 i agree, a tentative date wouldn't do any harm Aug 28 23:46:47 anybody know how to verify microb build is successful (I built it from source using dpkg apt-bldpackage) Aug 28 23:46:49 but... this is nokia Aug 28 23:47:12 they could release a new bluez at any time, but still not integrate a2dp or sco with the OS. Aug 28 23:47:28 fingers crossed they trial a beta package Aug 28 23:47:35 of the bluez changes Aug 28 23:47:43 assuming it's possible, and adds value Aug 28 23:48:39 if they did it that way, they could take their time integrating it with the OS and we could release a new Kagu to utilize the new bluez. best of both worlds. Aug 28 23:48:53 absolutely Aug 28 23:49:08 bet it won't happen though :) Aug 28 23:50:22 I'm having trouble parsing what you guys are really looking for Aug 28 23:50:30 dunno. anything could happen at this point. depends on how backed up with other stuff they are. Aug 28 23:50:46 the bluez guys certainly have been busy the last few months... i wonder if that's due to nokias involvement? Aug 28 23:50:56 probably Aug 28 23:51:15 a2dp and sco will actually drive sales a bit for them. not much, but a bit. Aug 28 23:51:38 Kagu isn't enough for that. They have to say it's built in. Aug 28 23:51:51 you want a new kernel for the tablet, with updated bluetooth stuff? Aug 28 23:52:08 nah, just a new bluez deb. Aug 28 23:52:27 if it takes a new kernel, then a new kernel. Aug 28 23:52:34 trevarthan: the lack of a2dp and sco is a bit of a hole nowadays, as apple have discovered... people know about it, and want it. Aug 28 23:53:16 yeah. totally agree. Aug 28 23:53:31 cars will probably ship with a2dp soon, if they don't already. Aug 28 23:53:58 lle2: I thought you were a bot at first. :) most people don't say "parse" in a sentence. Aug 28 23:54:24 trevarthan: some people do after whiskey tasting Aug 28 23:54:38 albiet with a bit of a slur? Aug 28 23:54:45 a bit Aug 28 23:55:18 perhaps that's why you were having trouble parsing our conversation? :) Aug 28 23:55:33 also a distinct possibility Aug 28 23:55:47 I still think you're a bot. Very bot-like answers. Aug 28 23:56:35 I'm just kidding. :) Aug 28 23:56:40 I'm just curious why not build your own bluez stuff? run it with the very latest public kernel and you couldn't have anything more up to date Aug 28 23:57:14 mostly because I'm lazy, and we've already got a2dp support in a less advanced form. Aug 28 23:57:14 you'll lack wlan, but that's to be expected Aug 28 23:57:39 that's a valid reason Aug 28 23:58:26 I might test it out on my desktop though. gentoo is good for stuff like that. Aug 28 23:59:09 gentoo is not good for anything, imho. It wasted many hours of my life for no good reason. Aug 28 23:59:47 there's that too. :) Aug 29 00:00:05 I come from FreeBSD, many years ago, so I'm used to it, I guess. Aug 29 00:00:27 too bad I don't have any idea what distro would be any good, so debian it is for me. Aug 29 00:02:18 I like maemo and fedora core. Not a big fan of debian, but I might like ubunto. Aug 29 00:02:28 s/ubunto/ubuntu/ Aug 29 00:02:28 trevarthan meant: I like maemo and fedora core. Not a big fan of debian, but I might like ubuntu. Aug 29 00:03:59 there was once a thing called ossi, way better than maemo. unfortunately it got overrun by a stampede of debian madness Aug 29 00:05:38 pretty close conceptually to being openembedded but using scratchbox to solve the cross-compilation business Aug 29 00:06:28 * pupnik also wasted many hours on gentoo, but it was somewhat educational Aug 29 00:06:30 trevarthan: Ubuntu is alright Aug 29 00:06:42 pupnik: that is what gentoo is! heh, educational Aug 29 00:07:49 lle2: what type of whiskey? Aug 29 00:07:52 the name ubuntu bothers me Aug 29 00:08:03 pupnik: heh Aug 29 00:09:29 erstazi: the better part of Islay, pretty good stuff Aug 29 00:09:32 yup, gentoo very educational. I still use it on my server and my desktop though. probably will until I can no longer upgrade critical stuff without installing 4^10 deps too. Aug 29 00:10:43 it's already survived 2 fedora core revisions without a reinstall, and my packages are still rather current, so I've got no reason to change OSes. Aug 29 00:10:46 lle2: aye Aug 29 00:10:59 I'd probably switch if they made a maemo server OS though. :) Aug 29 00:11:10 trevarthan: heh Aug 29 00:11:20 i switched from suse 10 server to ubuntu recently... suse was a pain in the arse at times Aug 29 00:11:58 debian is good, I don't expect it to be perfect and it mostly doesn't get in my way too bad Aug 29 00:11:59 milhouse: which ubuntu version do you run for server? Aug 29 00:12:01 ubuntu on the other hand... thumbs up :) Aug 29 00:12:04 feisty fawn Aug 29 00:12:25 it's actually the desktop version - the ubuntu server has no x :) Aug 29 00:12:30 ubuntu on the other hand wants to be perfect and fails, thus I don't like it that much Aug 29 00:12:32 milhouse: yeah, I used feisty fawn on a few developmental servers... its alright, some issues here and there with upgrades Aug 29 00:12:46 milhouse: thats what I thought you replaced suse10 server with Aug 29 00:12:54 i want both a workstation and something to run "server" type apps (apache, squid etc.) Aug 29 00:13:00 lle2: yeah, its no way perfect but decent for the new user to linux Aug 29 00:13:16 so far, I have kept using CentOS for my server Aug 29 00:13:30 they aim to be 100% binary compatible with red hat Aug 29 00:13:39 erstazi - no i switched from suse 10 server to ubuntu desktop... i did a trial install of ubuntu server only to discover it had no x server :) Aug 29 00:13:46 milhouse: ah Aug 29 00:13:59 dapper is nice, LTS! Aug 29 00:14:34 I would like to do some testing on Debian etch, haven't had the time to do so Aug 29 00:14:45 etch is brilliant Aug 29 00:14:46 i like ubuntu because getting it to work with a modern graphics driver is a damned sight easier than suse... with suse you have to recompile the kernel yourself etc. which was a pain i could do without Aug 29 00:14:58 milhouse: thats true Aug 29 00:15:00 Zenwalk Aug 29 00:15:00 s/driver/card/ Aug 29 00:15:00 milhouse meant: i like ubuntu because getting it to work with a modern graphics card is a damned sight easier than suse... with suse you have to recompile the kernel yourself etc. which was a pain i could do without Aug 29 00:15:01 Arch Aug 29 00:15:06 lle2: I might set some servers up to test it Aug 29 00:15:27 baryl/compiz is nice... compiz fusion should be better in the next gibbon release Aug 29 00:15:47 erstazi: last four installs I've done latest ubuntu failed totally on every one, etch just worked Aug 29 00:16:22 well, just worked being according to what I expect from debian Aug 29 00:16:24 milhouse: I don't care for those, I would just live with XFCE if I had to Aug 29 00:17:06 i'm running some _really_ old crap (Tyan server motherboard with a pair of Slot 1 Pentium 3s...) which may explain why it worked without any problems (didn't like the built in sound card though - but then neither did SuSE) Aug 29 00:17:14 with GNOME, there are a few things I despise, changing the foreground color of a font in the panel requires me to go into a conf and change it... where as KDE or another DE, its a simple GUI change Aug 29 00:18:01 if you like bling bling DE's, try Enlightenment... its very flashy compared to default KDE even Aug 29 00:18:12 erstazi: I like a bit of bling... :) but it does chug a bit on my kit - the graphics card is an old GF2 Aug 29 00:18:38 milhouse: try elive's live cd sometime then Aug 29 00:18:50 its debian based as well Aug 29 00:18:51 i'll give it a go - what's the url? elive.org? Aug 29 00:18:59 mmm let me check Aug 29 00:19:14 nope, elive.org looks like a shop of some sort... Aug 29 00:19:23 http://elivecd.org Aug 29 00:19:24 elivecd.org maybe Aug 29 00:19:33 sorry Aug 29 00:19:38 so far I've not seen anything that would beat windowmaker for me Aug 29 00:19:48 np - i'll download it now and try it later in the week. thanks. Aug 29 00:20:17 hang on... is it free? Aug 29 00:20:34 of course Aug 29 00:20:41 its debian based Aug 29 00:20:43 hmmm... it's taking me to paypal Aug 29 00:20:47 no way! Aug 29 00:21:06 something about a donation... looks like i need to read the page :) Aug 29 00:21:22 money for nothing, bits for free Aug 29 00:21:32 milhouse: try the developmental version Aug 29 00:22:12 yeah, looks like the development version is free but the stable version requires a small donation Aug 29 00:22:19 development version for me then... :) Aug 29 00:22:22 milhouse: heh Aug 29 00:23:42 milhouse: I have tried a virtual machine of it, there are ways of making an ISO of that, but I find that against the philosophy Aug 29 00:25:10 is the development iso a live cd? Aug 29 00:42:30 milhouse: I think, like I said, I only test in virtual machines... livecd's use up my cd and dvd's for backups (: Aug 29 00:42:52 milhouse: I have a few livecd's I use for installs Aug 29 00:43:02 but those are kept safely from damage Aug 29 00:47:19 erstazi: i've got an old machine i can try it in first Aug 29 00:47:50 and if that checks out, should monkey go "off the air" you'll know why... :) Aug 29 00:53:37 milhouse: not _Monkey! Aug 29 00:53:39 heh Aug 29 00:54:05 it will only be temporary :) Aug 29 00:54:12 heh Aug 29 01:06:04 gstreamer is a smoking pile of cow poo. Aug 29 01:06:08 gstreamer? Aug 29 01:06:08 <_Monkey> well, gstreamer is a smoking pile of cow poo. Aug 29 01:06:11 nice. Aug 29 01:06:16 goodmonkey. Aug 29 01:06:16 <_Monkey> goodmonkey is a good _Monkey who gets a biscuit. Aug 29 01:07:11 what have they done to you monkey... i had such high hopes for you... now, gone. :( Aug 29 01:07:22 sob Aug 29 01:08:02 _monkey status Aug 29 01:08:03 <_Monkey> Since Sun Aug 26 16:20:02 2007, there have been 243 modifications and 55 questions. I have been awake for 2 days, 9 hours, 48 minutes, 7 seconds this session, and currently reference 4904 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode. Aug 29 01:08:16 spank is what _Monkey does to milhouse when no-one is looking. Aug 29 01:08:18 spank? Aug 29 01:08:19 <_Monkey> spank is what _Monkey does to milhouse when no-one is looking. Aug 29 01:08:24 lol Aug 29 01:08:27 oh lord! :) Aug 29 01:08:36 who told you??? Aug 29 01:09:50 your mom, of course. Aug 29 01:10:08 I'd make a good bot. Aug 29 01:11:23 the sad thing is that I'm perfectly sober.... Aug 29 01:12:03 my mom eh? thank goodness for that, thought it might have been my gimp. Aug 29 01:12:35 nope. still soundly in the box Aug 29 01:13:26 * trevarthan gazes admiringly at his katana on the wall Aug 29 01:18:21 Evenin Aug 29 01:38:11 first time on here on the 770 Aug 29 01:38:25 how about them apples Aug 29 01:38:31 xchat ? Aug 29 01:38:32 <_Monkey> somebody said xchat was a gtk-based IRC client. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/ Aug 29 01:38:43 y Aug 29 01:38:54 gidget, can you do fullscreen on it Aug 29 01:39:02 no Aug 29 01:39:12 me either Aug 29 01:39:16 just trying to figure that Aug 29 01:39:21 I dunno why Aug 29 01:39:32 others can? Aug 29 01:39:32 it bugs me Aug 29 01:40:54 go to view / layout and put it on tabs Aug 29 01:41:08 that makes it a bit bigger Aug 29 01:42:04 how do I install this , http://maemo.org/downloads/product/busybox/ Aug 29 01:42:14 are you using a bt kb? Aug 29 01:42:21 no Aug 29 01:42:30 ekim ^^ Aug 29 01:42:38 what? Aug 29 01:42:50 ah, me either ;) Aug 29 01:43:06 the fullscreen keyboard works nicely Aug 29 01:43:13 agreed Aug 29 01:43:46 not as nicely as a bluetooth keyboard though Aug 29 01:44:45 depends on if 'nicely' means 'portable' or not Aug 29 01:44:59 does fceu have a gui ? Aug 29 01:45:23 being able to stick this thing in my pocket is nicely for me Aug 29 01:45:39 yeah its called xmaeme Aug 29 01:46:14 gui for it and gba emultor and xmame Aug 29 01:46:25 emulator/ Aug 29 01:47:05 where do I get it Aug 29 01:47:47 I have fceu installed Aug 29 01:47:56 but no gui Aug 29 01:50:06 anyone ? Aug 29 01:50:53 is there any way I can put my 770 in "sleep mode" Aug 29 01:50:56 third result on google for 'xmaeme' Aug 29 01:51:03 is there any way I can put my 770 in "sleep mode" Aug 29 01:51:28 put the cover on it. are you serious? Aug 29 01:52:31 Ha Aug 29 01:52:35 Don't be mean, gidget. :P Aug 29 01:53:29 not trying to, just... Aug 29 01:55:32 So, a question for the group: Aug 29 01:55:38 I have 2 770s and an N800 Aug 29 01:55:59 1 770 is on the couch and the other in the bedroom Aug 29 01:56:05 N800 is a pocket-traveler Aug 29 01:56:25 FBReader saves its state to an xml file Aug 29 01:56:41 I'd like to figure out a way to synchronize this state file over all devices Aug 29 01:56:53 hmm Aug 29 01:56:55 so FBReader will always have my place on whatever device I'm on. Aug 29 01:57:02 I figure rsync can pull this off Aug 29 01:57:06 well...it depends Aug 29 01:57:10 yeeah Aug 29 01:57:20 rdync and cron Aug 29 01:57:26 rsync Aug 29 01:57:27 But I'd need to work out some sort of wrapper that would pull the latest state file on launch Aug 29 01:57:32 or a netcat shell script Aug 29 01:57:37 hmm Aug 29 01:57:41 Which, I imagine, is fairly easy to do Aug 29 01:57:52 i never understood netcat Aug 29 01:58:02 gotta look ito i Aug 29 01:58:04 But sending the updated file on exit seems like a bit more of a challenge Aug 29 01:58:25 not n exit.... Aug 29 01:58:38 use perl to check access date on the file, then udp broadcast ;) Aug 29 01:58:41 Is there anyway for rsync to look at 3 files (1 local 2 network) and grab the one that's newest? Aug 29 01:58:51 Hehe, right. Aug 29 01:58:57 how do I install this , http://maemo.org/downloads/product/busybox/ Aug 29 01:59:08 or better Aug 29 01:59:16 srry, don't know rsync Aug 29 01:59:20 well you'd sync --update from/to bothe the others for pull/push Aug 29 01:59:51 Only problem with that is that the other devices would have to be on and connected to the network Aug 29 01:59:55 how do I get rd of bussybx comletrly and replace it wth basgh Aug 29 02:00:08 that is a problem Aug 29 02:00:26 for doing things on startup, kinda yeah Aug 29 02:00:33 (app startup esp) Aug 29 02:00:34 but seriously Aug 29 02:00:37 If I could push the state on exit Aug 29 02:00:39 how do I install this , http://maemo.org/downloads/product/busybox/ Aug 29 02:01:03 spamming won't help ekim Aug 29 02:01:13 sorry Aug 29 02:01:26 stupid impatience Aug 29 02:01:52 busybox is already installed Aug 29 02:01:59 i know Aug 29 02:02:11 this is a better version Aug 29 02:02:18 with more stuff Aug 29 02:03:04 surely someone has relaced bussybox with bash Aug 29 02:09:31 It actually turns out that replacing your shell is a Really Bad Idea. Aug 29 02:09:43 At least when I did it, it bricked the machine. Aug 29 02:10:48 so I can't upgrade busybox Aug 29 02:12:31 ahh man Aug 29 02:13:19 do any of you guys' 770's simply refuse to launch apps sometimes? Aug 29 02:13:37 Mine has been great since I bought it in November 2005 Aug 29 02:13:46 you click on it and nothing happens Aug 29 02:14:18 aww dang Aug 29 02:14:29 I gotta reboot Aug 29 02:14:32 brb Aug 29 02:49:22 hi Aug 29 02:49:50 how can I get man ... Aug 29 02:50:10 im kinda lost without it Aug 29 02:57:33 Yeah, I never found out the answer to that on, ekim\770. Aug 29 02:57:38 SSH into a real machine? :P Aug 29 02:59:01 Actually, re that FBReader idea, would there be any way to symlink to a network drive? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 29 02:59:56 2007