**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 29 02:59:56 2007
Sep 29 05:03:17 <pupnik> Found a linux/SDL M.U.L.E. (strategy game) clone for linux/SDL http://www.heroicproportions.org/downloads.html
Sep 29 05:25:24 <pupnik> heh mule compiled
Sep 29 07:16:15 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Sep 29 07:21:07 * pupnik waves a flipper
Sep 29 11:10:22 <lardman> morning all
Sep 29 11:25:04 <mbuf> lardman, good afternoon
Sep 29 11:27:40 <lardman> hi mbuf
Sep 29 11:28:10 <mbuf> lardman, hi
Sep 29 12:02:40 <grndlvl> wow pretty large group here, just got my N800 yesterday having alot of fun loving the Open System
Sep 29 12:04:27 <lardman> lots of people logged on, but mostly idling
Sep 29 12:04:58 <lardman> glad to hear you're enjoying it
Sep 29 12:05:43 <alterego> :)
Sep 29 12:05:58 <alterego> Some people are more idle than others :)#
Sep 29 12:09:54 <grndlvl> ya, I used it too much yesterday and the battery is dead now, away from the house without the charger so that sucks
Sep 29 12:10:23 <grndlvl> going to go pick up some bigger SDmini cards today
Sep 29 12:12:24 <grndlvl> not been in the mobile sceen that much whats the largest SDcard out there?
Sep 29 12:12:41 <alterego> 8Gb
Sep 29 12:13:12 <grndlvl> schweet
Sep 29 12:13:27 <alterego> Not sure if they do mini SD that size.
Sep 29 12:13:38 <alterego> But certainly standard SD cards
Sep 29 12:13:46 <grndlvl> ohh yea
Sep 29 12:14:38 <grndlvl> the one thing that i find strange is that, why in the world does the N800 come with a SD mini and an adapter, will nothing else fit it..
Sep 29 12:15:19 <gla55_> just use normal sd's?
Sep 29 12:15:29 <gla55_> they probably got sd minis and adapters for cheap
Sep 29 12:15:37 <gla55_> or had them on stock for some other model
Sep 29 12:16:11 <grndlvl> so a regular sd does fit the N800?
Sep 29 12:16:20 <alterego> Yeah, their newer phones use MiniSD
Sep 29 12:16:27 <alterego> Obviously.
Sep 29 12:16:41 <alterego> Those are SD/MMC slots, not MiniSD slots :P
Sep 29 12:17:43 <grndlvl> well yea but hey you never know yo, like i said as far as the mobile scene is i am behind, a guy at work walked in with one of these the other day and I was like whoa thats awesome
Sep 29 12:18:09 <alterego> Yeah, they are pretty awesome.
Sep 29 12:18:29 <alterego> Developing apps for it is pretty easy too now, with Python and Ruby.
Sep 29 12:19:08 <grndlvl> yea... i noticed it a GTK interface
Sep 29 12:19:16 <gla55_> alterego: some use mini, some use micro. can't standardize even on that...
Sep 29 12:19:28 <alterego> The old ones use MicroMMC
Sep 29 12:19:35 <alterego> All the new phones will be MiniSD.
Sep 29 12:19:53 <alterego> Plainly because SD is MMC's successor. It's just taken a while for people to adapt.
Sep 29 12:20:01 <alterego> s/adapt/adopt :)
Sep 29 12:20:46 <gla55_> alterego: not all new ones use minisd, quite many of them use micro
Sep 29 12:21:03 <gla55_> e61 is one of the few that use mini
Sep 29 12:21:19 <alterego> Which is unusual, because the E61 isn't that new :P
Sep 29 12:21:27 <alterego> When I say new, I mean N95 onwards.
Sep 29 12:21:48 <gla55_> n95 is microsd
Sep 29 12:22:03 <gla55_> n81 is microsd
Sep 29 12:22:14 <alterego> I thought you were talking about MMC.
Sep 29 12:22:22 <gla55_> ah
Sep 29 12:22:28 <alterego> My whole argument was how SD cards are taking over from MMC :P
Sep 29 12:22:55 <gla55_> ah, my was how nokia didn't standardize straight to one sd
Sep 29 12:23:01 <alterego> Whether they're micro, mini or standard it doesn't really matter :P
Sep 29 12:23:07 <gla55_> all s60 3rd ed fp1 devices seem to be micro though
Sep 29 12:23:16 <alterego> Yeah
Sep 29 12:23:25 <gla55_> it matters when you got a mini and can't fit it in :)
Sep 29 12:23:27 <alterego> Micro look _tiny_ though ..
Sep 29 12:27:35 <gla55_> yeah pretty small
Sep 29 12:27:46 <gla55_> nail size
Sep 29 12:46:03 <alterego> There was me, wondering why osso wouldn't initialize. And I've not even started the desktop ^_^
Sep 29 13:09:20 <Blacksito> how reinstall osso-application-installer ?
Sep 29 13:09:44 <Blacksito> my osso-applicacion-installer its broken :(
Sep 29 13:09:52 <Blacksito> help me :)
Sep 29 13:10:44 <alterego> How is it broken?
Sep 29 13:40:51 <Blacksito> alterego, http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1261/1457619883_50c4319220.jpg :(
Sep 29 13:40:58 <Blacksito> not run :\
Sep 29 13:41:07 <Blacksito> what problem ?
Sep 29 13:41:07 <_Monkey> i heard problem was that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....
Sep 29 13:42:02 <Blacksito> I use : apt-get install --reinstall osso-application-install problem continue
Sep 29 13:42:57 <alterego> Why did it break?
Sep 29 13:43:13 <alterego> Have you tried restarting the device?
Sep 29 13:58:56 <sus> I want kagu media player (a python/pygame app) automatically launching on startup without the need of nothing else, apart the possibility to switch off the 770. What should I do? I'm not a linux expert, but I can manage to edit sh files in root mode and stuff like that, so please some suggestions...
Sep 29 14:01:09 <sus> perhaps should I add a line at the end of /etc/osso-af-init/real-af-startup?
Sep 29 14:01:59 <zuh> sus: I guess one easy way would be just replacing maemo-af-desktop binary name with yours in the m-a-d script
Sep 29 14:02:30 <zuh> That way the desktop doesn't get in the way at all
Sep 29 14:02:44 <sus> so I won't be able to switch off?
Sep 29 14:03:18 <zuh> The shutdown dialog will pop up regardless of the desktop
Sep 29 14:03:36 <sus> so you're saying I could try replacing....
Sep 29 14:03:38 <zuh> But of course replacing the desktop is pretty invasive
Sep 29 14:03:46 <sus> the call to maemo-af-desktop
Sep 29 14:04:11 <sus> with: python kagu.py
Sep 29 14:04:24 <sus> (of course with all the paths)?
Sep 29 14:04:40 <alterego> Why would you do that?!?!!
Sep 29 14:04:42 <alterego> :)
Sep 29 14:04:46 <sus> :)
Sep 29 14:04:57 <sus> I know, that's just for a one-day thing...
Sep 29 14:04:59 <alterego> What's wrong with the maemo desktop? :)
Sep 29 14:05:11 <sus> then I want to be able to restore all !
Sep 29 14:05:21 <alterego> So you can show off to your friends. Look, this is my Nokia N800 python kagu media player :P
Sep 29 14:05:29 <zuh> sus: ok, then it's better to just add it to the end of some startup script
Sep 29 14:05:31 <alterego> sus, keep sshd running :)
Sep 29 14:05:53 <zuh> alterego: What's not wrong with the desktop..?-)
Sep 29 14:05:58 <sus> so to what startup script should I add the call?
Sep 29 14:06:08 <sus> (or a safe back to normal)
Sep 29 14:06:13 <sus> (for a safe back to normal)
Sep 29 14:06:22 <alterego> I'd do what zuh said, as long as you've got sshd installed you can ssh in and edit it.
Sep 29 14:06:30 <alterego> (provided the network is setup correctly on the device)
Sep 29 14:06:40 <zuh> Blacksito: You might be hitting this: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-April/009840.html
Sep 29 14:06:41 <sus> oh, well, I have it already installed and working
Sep 29 14:08:14 <sus> I'm not so linux comfortable, I should go into etc/init.d right? or where?
Sep 29 14:09:21 <zuh> real-af-startup should be just fine I think
Sep 29 14:09:57 <sus> So you think I'll continue to have ssh access after rebooting with that file modified?
Sep 29 14:10:35 <sus> if so, I'm going to try. I'll be here crying after if something goes wrong ! :)
Sep 29 14:12:38 <Blacksito> thanks zuh
Sep 29 14:12:51 <Blacksito> whats the problem ?
Sep 29 14:12:52 <_Monkey> the problem is that we need a better bot. Not just a monkey....
Sep 29 14:14:05 <zuh> Blacksito: the actual problem is this: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-April/009871.html
Sep 29 14:15:55 <zuh> I don't remember why I was seeing that back then, but the basic problem is that sudo is not working
Sep 29 14:18:45 <Blacksito> yes
Sep 29 14:19:52 <Blacksito> sudo unable to lookup <mihost> via gethosbyname()  <--  zuh
Sep 29 14:20:14 <Blacksito> nokia n800 # sudo su -
Sep 29 14:21:57 <sus> I'm reading the real-af-startup script and I'm a little scared... can't figure out how I can say "please after you've set all that you need, load python /path/to/kagu.py". There are so much if...fi I don't know where to write and how.
Sep 29 14:23:43 <bmidgley> when I plug into usb, my n800 always says the internal card is in use
Sep 29 14:23:58 <bmidgley> no apps are up
Sep 29 14:24:07 <bmidgley> how do i figure out what is pinning down the card?
Sep 29 14:39:13 <dragorn> bmidgley: lsof if you have it
Sep 29 14:39:28 <dragorn> bmidgley: otherwise, reboot
Sep 29 14:41:48 <jani> afaik, when you plug the usb cable, the mmc is shared automatically as external disk and thus its "used"
Sep 29 14:44:54 <dragorn> except if it's already in use by an app, it has to be unmounted by the os on the 800 to be exported
Sep 29 14:45:00 <dragorn> which I suspect is the problem he's having
Sep 29 14:45:18 <dragorn> though you may be right and i'm reading it inverted
Sep 29 14:46:15 <dragorn> bmidgley: So yes - if the problem is, you can't access the card from a pc because it's busy, listen to me.  If the problem is you can't use the card on the n800 while it's plugged into a pc, listen to jani
Sep 29 14:53:41 * pupnik_ pictures two little animated characters floating on either side of his head
Sep 29 14:56:37 <bmidgley> yeah the card wouldn't "export" to the pc
Sep 29 14:57:02 <bmidgley> I tried again just now and it worked... maybe maemo mapper was still shutting down
Sep 29 14:57:07 <bmidgley> when I tried the first time
Sep 29 14:59:44 <r-> anyone seen a group of themes that actually work with the new os2007 ?
Sep 29 15:01:51 <pupnik> themes?
Sep 29 15:01:52 <_Monkey> themes is http://downloads.maemo.org/other/  for recent Bora themes, http://thememaker.garage.maemo.org/About%20Theme%20Maker.html for the 'Theme Maker' applet,  https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-tools/README  for tools   http://icct.blogspot.com/2006/04/maemo-themes-are-here.html
Sep 29 15:01:58 <rwhitby> r-: plankton
Sep 29 15:01:59 <_Monkey> plankton is a good theme eh?
Sep 29 15:08:23 <xeos> Hi folks,
Sep 29 15:09:37 <xeos> I have a deb package which I can install by `dpkg -i' but not by application manager. Can anyone tell me why it could be?
Sep 29 15:18:10 <pupnik> xeos: the 'section' may be incorrect - apps need to be user/foo and not just foo
Sep 29 15:21:08 <pupnik> xeos: you can see the info with dpkg -I <package>
Sep 29 15:21:57 <pupnik> blah i have to fix up some packages
Sep 29 15:23:36 <pupnik> no rest for the wicket
Sep 29 15:23:55 <r-> i keep getting install file corrupted when i try to install a theme
Sep 29 15:28:30 <pupnik> Sconstruct is simpler than automake/autoconf
Sep 29 15:52:42 <xeos> pupnik: It could be, is there any form of change section without rebuild the package?
Sep 29 15:53:30 <pupnik> i can try to find out.  dpkg -X unpacks it - maybe there's a command to re-pack it
Sep 29 15:55:14 <alterego> Not from an unpacked package.
Sep 29 15:55:21 <alterego> As it doesn't have the "DEBIAN" directory.
Sep 29 15:55:50 <alterego> You could make a dummy package directory.
Sep 29 15:56:01 <pupnik> alterego: do you know the policy for maemo 'sections'?
Sep 29 15:56:09 <alterego> user/*
Sep 29 15:56:16 <xeos> dpkg -e | --control filename [directory]     Extract control-information from a package.
Sep 29 15:56:35 <xeos> only extract..
Sep 29 15:56:44 <pupnik> aha -e works - created DEBIAN
Sep 29 15:56:44 <alterego> xeos, exactly, so make your own rules file which rebuilds the package from the extracted contents.
Sep 29 15:57:49 <alterego> All you'll beed to do is something like: cp -R $(CURDIR)/package-contents $(CURDIR)/debian/package-name
Sep 29 15:57:58 <alterego> Put that in the install section and you're done :)
Sep 29 15:59:26 <xeos> okay, I will try it
Sep 29 15:59:44 <pupnik> i am seeing a ton of libraries with Section: libs
Sep 29 15:59:55 <pupnik> but a few libraries with Section: user/libs
Sep 29 16:00:01 <alterego> They can only be installed with dpkg -i
Sep 29 16:00:20 <alterego> I'm pretty certain that you have to have the user/ prefix for it to work in the application installer.
Sep 29 16:00:25 <alterego> I think that's the only real caveat.
Sep 29 16:00:30 <pupnik> osso-applet-sound_1.3.5-3_armel.deb Section: libs
Sep 29 16:00:44 <pupnik> osso-backup_1.2.5-1_armel.deb Section: misc
Sep 29 16:00:46 <alterego> Ah, they are core packages though.
Sep 29 16:00:52 <pupnik> ok
Sep 29 16:01:01 <alterego> That's for _maemo_ not for users.
Sep 29 16:01:08 <pupnik> gotcha
Sep 29 16:03:07 * alterego is working on a new ruby-dbus binding using the dbus-glib layer.
Sep 29 16:03:23 <alterego> The dbus extension that's already written is kind of broken.
Sep 29 16:03:35 <alterego> Rather than fix it I thought it would be better to write a new one using dbus-glib.
Sep 29 16:03:37 <alterego> :)
Sep 29 16:09:42 <grndlvl> what do i need to do to be able to transfer files between the N800 and my mac?
Sep 29 16:10:53 <grndlvl> nvrm
Sep 29 16:16:01 <grndlvl> ok i take that back i do need to know how
Sep 29 16:16:50 <Sulis> grndlvl, well you can plug your n800 into your mac and it should mount the two sd cards automatically
Sep 29 16:16:57 <Sulis> you should see them on your desktop
Sep 29 16:17:12 <grndlvl> yea normallly but did not seem to happen
Sep 29 16:17:34 <grndlvl> let me just try to d/c and r/c
Sep 29 16:19:34 <grndlvl> that seemed to work
Sep 29 16:19:43 <Sulis> good
Sep 29 16:21:32 <grndlvl> thanks
Sep 29 16:26:17 <robtro> hmmmm
Sep 29 16:26:34 <r-> neat.
Sep 29 16:28:08 <alterego> sshfs ftw!
Sep 29 16:28:11 <alterego> :)
Sep 29 16:28:39 <grndlvl> that would have worked as well
Sep 29 16:28:50 <robtro> lol internet
Sep 29 16:28:55 <alterego> It's my prefered method.
Sep 29 16:29:04 <alterego> I only use the cable for flashing and when I'm not at my machine.
Sep 29 16:29:10 <grndlvl> omfq this thing has apt-get on it
Sep 29 16:29:12 <grndlvl> lmao
Sep 29 16:29:24 <alterego> Urm .. Obviously.
Sep 29 16:29:28 <alterego> It's built on debian.
Sep 29 16:29:36 <grndlvl> yea i am seeing that
Sep 29 16:30:46 <alterego> Hmm .. I think I'm going to have to skip the dbus-glib and just do a proper dbus binding for Ruby
Sep 29 16:32:00 <alterego> Well, I'll do this anyway and see how it works out.
Sep 29 16:47:28 <pupnik> so far the only ruby app i saw was nice
Sep 29 17:03:53 <r-> anyone here dealt with bluetooth DUN with a blackberry ?
Sep 29 17:04:20 <r-> i've nailed the issue down to incorrect understnading of the blackberry's bluetooth profiles, but dont know which end the problem is on
Sep 29 17:04:49 <r-> (does the n800 not understand the bb properly) or (does the bb not notify the n800 of the proper profiles, which do in fact exist on the bb)
Sep 29 17:09:05 <pupnik> maybe a forum post would help
Sep 29 17:33:17 <xand> is it possible to change the layout of the 770's on-screen keyboard? specifically to make the number keypad the right way up
Sep 29 17:47:43 <alterego> It is the right way up
Sep 29 17:47:54 <alterego> _real_ keyboards are the wrong way up :P
Sep 29 17:59:07 <Sulis> alterego, depends if you use a telephone or a computer more
Sep 29 17:59:11 <grndlvl> trying to install libsqlite0, unable to find it in repo, any ideas?
Sep 29 18:00:36 <alterego> Sulis, I guess so.
Sep 29 18:00:44 <alterego> Or a calculator
Sep 29 18:00:54 <alterego> Sulis, anyhow, yes you can change it.
Sep 29 18:01:51 <pupnik> repositories?
Sep 29 18:01:52 <_Monkey> repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories  and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php
Sep 29 18:02:36 <Sulis> alterego, it was xand who wanted to know, not me
Sep 29 18:03:10 <alterego> Oh, right :)
Sep 29 18:03:25 <alterego> xand, you need to generate a vkb file and stick it in /usr/share/keyboards
Sep 29 18:03:49 <alterego> That's all I know though ^_^
Sep 29 18:19:32 <grndlvl> thanks for the repo lists
Sep 29 18:33:02 <pupnik> lua5.1 built...
Sep 29 18:35:41 <alterego> Any bindings?
Sep 29 18:36:02 <pupnik> no - just compiled it for a game
Sep 29 18:36:07 <alterego> Ah
Sep 29 18:36:55 <pupnik> gcc -o boswars -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/lib -lpng -lz -ldl -llua5.1 -llua5.1 -logg -lX11 -lSDL -lpthread -lSDL
Sep 29 18:36:58 <pupnik> /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/lib/crt1.o: In function `_start':init.c:(.text+0x30): undefined reference to `mai
Sep 29 18:37:04 <pupnik> n'
Sep 29 18:37:06 <pupnik> :/
Sep 29 18:37:14 <alterego> Erm
Sep 29 18:37:29 <alterego> That doesn't sound good :)
Sep 29 18:42:25 <pupnik> yeah same error on host with gcc 4.1.3
Sep 29 18:44:10 <pupnik> they forgot to compile or link main function
Sep 29 18:44:13 <pupnik> wtf
Sep 29 18:45:54 <alterego> Weird
Sep 29 18:46:10 <alterego> Looking at that command. .. Where's the source file?
Sep 29 18:58:29 <pupnik> they fixed it in next release
Sep 29 19:10:54 <pupnik> http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blenderonthenokia770bp8.png  Blender running on Nokia 770 :D
Sep 29 19:13:19 <jani> hehe
Sep 29 19:14:42 <bedboi> lol
Sep 29 19:14:52 <bedboi> this is something really useless
Sep 29 19:15:14 <bedboi> well having accelerated 3d would be cool
Sep 29 19:17:36 <pupnik> with more ram, better cpu yes.  with n800 - very limited IMO
Sep 29 19:17:57 <pupnik> as soon as you say the word 'opengl' people assume apps will run that take many MB of textures
Sep 29 19:25:47 <jani> well, its propably usefull for modelling  but not for actual rendering =)
Sep 29 19:26:38 <pupnik> yeah modeling worked fine on a cyrix 133mhz
Sep 29 20:33:15 <pupnik> bos wars compiles - just need lua and 2.4 source
Sep 29 20:34:40 <pupnik> too heavy for the 770 though - anybody who wants to test/play on N800 /msg me
Sep 29 22:55:21 <zerojay> Anyone else have a problem with knot's player where it just tells you that there's NOTHING to watch?
Sep 29 22:55:34 <zerojay> It all appears to be set up properly.
Sep 29 22:55:43 <zerojay> I connect to the server and it just shows 0 for everything.
Sep 30 01:44:24 <Blacksitox> bye
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 30 02:59:56 2007