**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 17 02:59:56 2007 Oct 17 03:04:00 bye Oct 17 06:28:10 hi Oct 17 06:28:53 In Layout mode I got this: Oct 17 08:25:21 Nokia-N800-10 DSME: error reading fd (12): Resource temporarily Oct 17 06:28:53 unavailable Oct 17 06:29:06 and it hangs Oct 17 06:29:44 have you got any tips? thanks Oct 17 06:58:40 <|R> FUCK!! Oct 17 06:58:44 <|R> i just trashed /bin by error Oct 17 06:59:01 <|R> can't start a shell or anything anymore :((( Oct 17 06:59:08 <|R> will have to redo EVERYTHING ! Oct 17 06:59:29 pwnd! Oct 17 06:59:43 <|R> :/ Oct 17 07:00:03 * |R hates himself Oct 17 07:58:26 <|R> urhm, anyone know why after reflashing the cards don't get mounted automagically? Oct 17 07:58:57 <|R> ah doh, usb cable Oct 17 08:14:29 <|R> */&/*($ crap... now microb package breaks the browser and completely kills it if removed... wth! Oct 17 08:23:58 I had the same problem at one time Oct 17 08:31:23 Morning, all Oct 17 08:32:21 Yo Oct 17 08:32:50 Good morning Oct 17 09:20:46 Hello! Oct 17 09:41:59 good morning Oct 17 09:47:11 mornin' Oct 17 10:12:46 anyone else tried using gazpacho? 0.7.2 (the maemo version) seems to be somewhat unstable. Oct 17 10:25:05 not mention that I can't specify a toolbar for my program with it that works the way as in the tutorials at www.maemo.org Oct 17 10:28:54 gday Oct 17 10:34:04 seen qgil Oct 17 10:34:05 <_Monkey> qgil was last seen on #maemo 29 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: we have completed the upload and we are doing the last testing before announcing the release [Mon Sep 17 15:26:40 2007] Oct 17 10:34:05 good morning(~ugt) Oct 17 10:34:17 Thanks _Monkey Oct 17 10:42:39 silly question, is using cairo now "a good & sane thing", or is it still dog-slow? Oct 17 10:44:25 i can't run "fakeroot apt-get install hildon-libsmm-dev hildon-fmmm-dev" command for maemo 2.2 target . Please anybody tell me what should i do to run it Oct 17 10:45:00 Anybody please!!!!!!!!!!!! Oct 17 10:57:05 is there a unique serial number on an N800 device? Oct 17 10:57:25 The WLAN code. Oct 17 10:57:33 Big_B: type it in scratchbox and press enter? Oct 17 11:03:14 I did that Oct 17 11:03:39 but i got this mess" fakeroot apt-get install hildon-libsmm-dev hildon-fmmm-dev Oct 17 11:03:40 Reading Package Lists... Done Oct 17 11:03:40 Building Dependency Tree... Done Oct 17 11:03:40 E: Couldn't find package hildon-libsmm-dev Oct 17 11:03:40 " Oct 17 11:28:40 kulve: ssvb sent me an mp3 dsp task he found, might be of interest to you, and I could do with some help debugging it Oct 17 11:28:54 kulve: meeting now, will give you an url when I get back ~30min Oct 17 12:06:19 http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 Oct 17 12:06:38 kulve: cool :) Oct 17 12:06:44 oops wrong person Oct 17 12:06:48 just a general cool :) Oct 17 12:07:33 GeneralAntilles: Good find Oct 17 12:07:55 kulve: mp3 code here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/mp3/ Oct 17 12:08:19 kulve: I've made some changes so it compiles, correctly, will add them to the dir when I head home for lunch in a few Oct 17 12:09:07 it's for real Oct 17 12:09:41 nachin007 on itt spotted it Oct 17 12:09:48 erm, sachin Oct 17 12:09:59 Figured it might interest this group. ;) Oct 17 12:10:06 Not sure why they put the d-pad on the slider, though. Oct 17 12:10:50 thats just my luck... Oct 17 12:10:50 If it's not a real spec-bump over the N800 I'm going to wait. Oct 17 12:10:54 a slider - rejoice! Oct 17 12:11:04 only weeks after I get a N800 the N810 is announced Oct 17 12:11:08 :( Oct 17 12:11:18 What did you pay for the N800? Oct 17 12:11:20 it's announced already? Oct 17 12:11:27 The pics are up Oct 17 12:11:31 no announcement as yet Oct 17 12:11:46 well, its going to be announced Oct 17 12:11:49 http://tabletblog.com/ Oct 17 12:11:53 That's the place to watch. Oct 17 12:13:02 Here's to hoping for a 3000-series OMAP and OpenGL drivers, though! Oct 17 12:13:16 ah, I'm just waiting for the official stuff. Oct 17 12:13:32 and a picture better than the fcc stuff :-) Oct 17 12:13:42 * GeneralAntilles points up. >_> Oct 17 12:13:54 tabletblog = official? Oct 17 12:14:01 http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 Oct 17 12:14:15 ah, sry, missed that :-) Oct 17 12:14:40 Fullsize USB Oct 17 12:15:16 Looks like a 3-position stand, too. Oct 17 12:15:32 GeneralAntilles: I think it'll still be a 24xx series, with higher clock speed. Hopefully the PowerVR mbx will be working though... Oct 17 12:15:50 I'm probably not buying if it's 24xx Oct 17 12:16:00 How high can they push it, really? Oct 17 12:16:19 I want my ~600Mhz CPU. ;) Oct 17 12:16:55 GeneralAntilles, I have couple of 550 Celerons spare. Oct 17 12:17:05 the question is, how much do you want your 600MHz! :-) Oct 17 12:17:09 Will they run on that battery for 3+ hours? :P Oct 17 12:17:15 of course Oct 17 12:17:18 given large enough battery Oct 17 12:18:03 By "that", I mean BP-5L. Oct 17 12:18:26 So, anybody more informed about the USB spec than myself wanna confirm if A-port means host-mode? Oct 17 12:18:41 A-port I think is the connector type Oct 17 12:18:47 so basically just a full size connector. Oct 17 12:18:47 Actually, no. Oct 17 12:18:51 oh Oct 17 12:19:00 That's not a full-size connector on there. Oct 17 12:19:09 Scales are a bit off. :D Oct 17 12:19:21 looks like it, at least on http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_15_low.jpg Oct 17 12:20:08 It does, but compare it to the one on the N800 Oct 17 12:20:16 hmm. let me get it Oct 17 12:20:50 you're right Oct 17 12:20:54 it's the same as on N800 methinks Oct 17 12:21:22 meh. difficult to say from that angle. Oct 17 12:21:30 Yeah Oct 17 12:21:34 It's deceiving Oct 17 12:23:34 hmm. a question relating to sw packaging in maemo. where should I install my files in bora? Oct 17 12:23:43 talking about regular application binaries, data files, etc Oct 17 12:23:59 in 770 it was under /var/install-blah, but I guess that's wrong nowadays, so any hints/ideas? Oct 17 12:25:00 czr: have you read maemo packaging howtos? Oct 17 12:25:09 cosmo, yes Oct 17 12:25:19 they don't mention anything about file paths Oct 17 12:25:20 same as standard Linux Oct 17 12:25:26 i.e. /usr/bin Oct 17 12:25:30 lardman, /usr/bin etc? Oct 17 12:25:31 great. Oct 17 12:25:42 * czr hugs lardman Oct 17 12:25:49 469€ price for 810 in finland (was in verkkokauppa.com) Oct 17 12:25:53 in a purely platonic manner of course Oct 17 12:25:55 /usr/local/ is probably the place one should install things, but it's not in the path afaik Oct 17 12:26:02 but where is the stylus? Oct 17 12:26:03 <_Monkey> it has been said that the stylus is madness Oct 17 12:26:03 so use /usr/bin etc Oct 17 12:26:20 lardman, /usr/local/ is for modifications done by the local administration which fall outside package management (in FHS) Oct 17 12:26:34 lardman, so in this case /usr/bin would be more correct imho (when speaking about packaged software) Oct 17 12:27:18 czr: is it? I thought it was for packages added ontop of the standard ones Oct 17 12:27:35 lardman, well, not sure whether maemo is FHS compliant or not Oct 17 12:27:46 czr: or do you mean stuff compiled and installed is added there? Oct 17 12:27:52 lardman, latter Oct 17 12:27:55 s/is/should be Oct 17 12:28:06 anyhow, outside package management Oct 17 12:28:19 so manually building from source and make install- kind of stuff. Oct 17 12:30:06 i hope that dpad has gliding motion not clicking presses Oct 17 12:31:50 it should be possible to hold device with first and second fingers while using dpad and keys with thumb Oct 17 12:32:26 i hope they stop releasing this often Oct 17 12:34:58 How are frequent releases bad? Oct 17 12:34:59 we've been saying that similar device with different form factors would help sales Oct 17 12:35:11 The N800 isn't going to suddenly become useless. Oct 17 12:35:18 Nokia isn't going to flip a switch and turn it off. Oct 17 12:35:32 the n810 sure looks tasty! Oct 17 12:35:35 App development has continued just fine for the 770, even with the N800 on the market. Oct 17 12:35:54 They've already stated that the N800 is good for at least two more OS updates. Oct 17 12:36:19 so now ppl have the choice between an 800 w/o kbd and an 810 with kbd. good news! Oct 17 12:36:33 Hopefully we get the specs soon. Oct 17 12:36:36 GeneralAntilles: has the api changed enough that that would matter? i always saw the 770 2005/OS2006/N800 binary thing as being a matter of abi or something Oct 17 12:37:01 GeneralAntilles: they are bad, money wise ;) Oct 17 12:37:06 which is to say, in the few external apps i've moved up for myself, i never had to do anything more than recompile, it seems, and notthing with my own app Oct 17 12:37:31 * GeneralAntilles is a poor nooblette with very little coding experience. Oct 17 12:37:38 ahh ok Oct 17 12:37:39 :) Oct 17 12:37:49 I just like to talk out my ass a lot. ;) Oct 17 12:37:58 don't we all? Oct 17 12:37:59 Nooblette, gosh that's cute. Oct 17 12:38:10 heh Oct 17 12:38:19 rev you know that 2005-2006 switched from arm to armel, 2006 and 2007 are binary compatible tho Oct 17 12:38:27 * sciboy adds it to his vocabulary Oct 17 12:39:48 Does any of the browsers, (opera, microb, minimo) have the option to call a url from the command-line and possibly jump directly to fullscreen mode? Oct 17 12:40:32 pupnikU4: but are there any other substantial differences? dev-wise? other than not using the camera, say. Oct 17 12:40:43 sciboy: i think there's a way to do it via dbus, but i can't recall Oct 17 12:40:56 sciboy: not sure about the full-screen part, though Oct 17 12:41:53 rev, Well thing is I'm making a game for the n800 using javascript etc. all the toolbar options etc. are completely unnecessary and want to design for that extra screen real estate. Oct 17 12:42:26 i need to upgrade/flash my N800. i tried installing microb a while back, hosed the browser, and for the last 6 weeks or so haven't been using it nearly as much, because of the non-functioning web browser. uff. Oct 17 12:42:32 yes some things have been changed between 2006 and 2007 but for the most part, 2006 apps seem to run on 2007 Oct 17 12:42:44 I still have to wait for my n800 to arrive, or even news of when it may arrive. =/ Oct 17 12:43:07 sciboy: yeah, fair enough. have you tried making a popup to ditch most of that stuff? Oct 17 12:43:39 sciboy: or, you could just write a shell containing the HTML widget from opera, microb, etc, that'd probably be easier Oct 17 12:43:40 rev, I recall some javascript to push for fullscreen in IE, not sure about Mozilla or Opera. Oct 17 12:43:55 sciboy, can't you just make a simple gecko frontend that behaves like you want it? Oct 17 12:43:59 sciboy: i don't think there'll be a javascript means to push opera fullscreen, but possibly Oct 17 12:44:03 yeah, do what TPC sez Oct 17 12:44:46 TPC, I wouldn't have the slightest idea. Oct 17 12:45:48 the answer is yes Oct 17 12:45:51 and it's what you'd want to do Oct 17 12:45:57 :D Oct 17 12:46:37 But how is my question? I'm an animator not a developer, (main reason why I've opting for javascript instead of pygame etc. more graphical) Oct 17 12:46:51 lo Oct 17 12:47:02 sciboy, maybe you should recruit a developer for your project then Oct 17 12:47:05 how is your question? i'm not sure if they're an answer Oct 17 12:47:37 sciboy: i think that, time total spent, you could make something happen with a simpler browser shell faster than trying to go down the path you are Oct 17 12:48:00 wow, that was poorly woorded, eh? Oct 17 12:48:22 sciboy: that is, doing it the way TPC and I are talking about could be done even by someone without much coding experience, with a few pointers from folks like us in the channel, or perhaps an actual dev helper Oct 17 12:48:34 You think that was bad, I spent a minute puzzling over "But how is my question" speak like yoda you must. Oct 17 12:48:35 is that a USB post i spy on the side of the N810? Oct 17 12:48:36 especially considering that such a beast would probably be useful to other folks developing similar apps Oct 17 12:48:47 sciboy: haha :D Oct 17 12:49:01 blkhawk[work]: i hope so! Oct 17 12:49:18 are there more photos of the 810 anywhere? i've only seen one front-wise photo at engadget Oct 17 12:49:29 I think that's all of them for the moment. Oct 17 12:49:58 er, nevermind, they have a bunch of photos up now Oct 17 12:50:02 http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokias-n810-makes-first-appearance-drops-jaws/ Oct 17 12:50:08 :D Oct 17 12:50:16 or less annoying http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/10/17/the-nokia-n810-internet-tablet/ Oct 17 12:50:33 well it probably will only power a usb flash stick but its cool nonntheless Oct 17 12:50:54 rev, I guess so, first though I need to know what resolution I'll be working with, all the content has to be actual-size in order to help performance, so what part of 800x480 is actually usable by the application? Oct 17 12:50:54 I don't think that's a USB A port. Oct 17 12:50:58 The scale is wrong Oct 17 12:51:00 i don't think that's a USB port, not one capable of histing Oct 17 12:51:02 Compare it to the port on the N800. Oct 17 12:51:06 i think it's the same little guy on the N800 Oct 17 12:51:19 I thought it was A when I first looked at it, too. Oct 17 12:51:25 sciboy: well, if you actually had it full screen it'd be a full 800x480 Oct 17 12:51:44 sciboy: though you might want to have some sort of toolbar, giving you the ability to quit Oct 17 12:51:58 engadget must be lurking here Oct 17 12:52:01 rev, Can the user still switch between apps if one is fullscreen? Oct 17 12:52:20 sciboy: yeah, but not as easily (e.g. there's no bar w/ icons) Oct 17 12:52:48 [14:50:32] well it probably will only power a usb flash stick but its cool nonntheless Oct 17 12:52:52 http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 Oct 17 12:52:56 If anybody missed it. Oct 17 12:52:57 would be cool if it could power a usb 3G modem Oct 17 12:53:12 It's not an A port Oct 17 12:53:20 So I don't think it's going to be powering much of anything. Oct 17 12:53:38 rev, If I can use the whole screen that'd be pretty desirable since that means I have more control over the experience. But users must have the freedom to pause, quit and switch applications. Oct 17 12:54:23 they can just push the fullscreen button and get out of fullscreen mode Oct 17 12:54:26 'All your sdl keyboard problems magically wiped away... along with most of your personality.' Oct 17 12:54:29 rev, That reminds me, when they hit the power button, it still remains on right? Unless they go out of their way to fully power it down? Oct 17 12:55:06 the power button brings up a menu Oct 17 12:57:19 dumb comment of the year goes to bunzl2000 Oct 17 12:57:53 Hmmm, okay well it's good to know that full 800x480 is an option. Everything else, I need to wait on my N800 to actually arrive. =| Oct 17 12:59:23 Thanks Oct 17 12:59:29 I wonder what that button on the bottom is? Oct 17 12:59:39 bunzl2000, pupnikU4? Oct 17 12:59:42 i.e. in the n810_15.jpg image Oct 17 12:59:53 Yeah, I was wondering that, too, lardman. Oct 17 13:00:02 Could be a release for the back panel. Oct 17 13:00:02 keyboard lock perhaps Oct 17 13:00:09 Or maybe that. Oct 17 13:00:23 Actually, no, it can't be for the back panel. Oct 17 13:00:26 likewise the little square above the front camera Oct 17 13:00:34 microphone perhaps Oct 17 13:00:41 That's staying pretty much the same as tho N800 according to the engandget prototype photos. Oct 17 13:00:48 Looks like an LED to me. Oct 17 13:01:33 all we need now are some technical specs Oct 17 13:01:43 Hey. Oct 17 13:02:04 Yeah, lardman. Oct 17 13:02:11 * GeneralAntilles crosses fingers for OMAP 34xx Oct 17 13:02:18 :) Oct 17 13:02:52 Hopefully we get our hands on a copy of Chinook for the N800 soon. Oct 17 13:06:07 lardman: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83050&postcount=48 Oct 17 13:06:09 Makes sense Oct 17 13:06:19 I remember it being mentioned in the Chinook changes. Oct 17 13:06:37 Chinook? Oct 17 13:07:01 OS2008 Oct 17 13:07:04 Maemo 4.0 Oct 17 13:07:17 lardman, it's the panic switch Oct 17 13:07:29 switching it will cause the device to explode within 20 seconds. Oct 17 13:07:33 GeneralAntilles: cool Oct 17 13:07:42 Cool, is that due out in the near future? Oct 17 13:07:51 Dunno Oct 17 13:07:58 It'll be on the N810 whenever it comes out Oct 17 13:08:11 Don't know how soon the N800 version will be out. Oct 17 13:09:17 http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/n810_01_low.jpg has nice new status bar icons Oct 17 13:09:21 Why wouldn't it be out at a similar time? Considering how similar the hardware is. Oct 17 13:09:49 Wow that thing looks smexy. Oct 17 13:09:54 It probably will be, but not sure when Oct 17 13:10:32 Keyboard looks a little cramped for desktop typing (compared with a Psion, of course) Oct 17 13:11:50 It is a mobile device. ;) Oct 17 13:11:51 wait for the magical tardis keyboard tech that shrinks your hands when they get near the device Oct 17 13:12:10 pupnikU4, does it come with untardising as well? Oct 17 13:12:13 GeneralAntilles: so was the revo, it still had a decent-enough keyboard, and as for the Series 5... Oct 17 13:12:18 the 5 finger keyboard? Oct 17 13:12:20 Jaffa: yeah... I'd love a bit better keyboard but other than that it looks quite nice Oct 17 13:12:32 Clamshell designs aren't 'in' now. Too bad for us techies Oct 17 13:12:55 Ha, if I wanted a laptop, I'd buy a laptop. :P Oct 17 13:13:24 a psion 5mx wasn't a laptop Oct 17 13:13:52 the reason clamshells aren't built is cause they're not 'sexy' Oct 17 13:14:15 I like the industrial design of the N810 - looks smooth. Better than the horrible grill on the N800 IMHO Oct 17 13:14:29 i think it looks beautiful Oct 17 13:14:39 compare to asian products... Oct 17 13:14:45 Can I use that Psion with the keyboard out of the way? Oct 17 13:14:59 The 770 looks great, the N800 looks great, and the N810 looks great. Oct 17 13:15:04 Maybe I'm just hard to please. Oct 17 13:15:09 it does not look like it contains a gprs modem Oct 17 13:15:17 Good Oct 17 13:15:21 That's what a cellphone is for. Oct 17 13:15:23 how can you tell? Oct 17 13:15:37 or have you seen the schematics....? :) Oct 17 13:15:37 no dialing in the pics Oct 17 13:15:49 Ha. Oct 17 13:15:58 Well I hope it doesn't come with maps of Washington, not much use to me Oct 17 13:16:06 Nokia would have to do a lot of work to keep the network safe from those dangerous Linux hackers. Oct 17 13:16:08 hah Oct 17 13:16:26 I, for one, hope the IT series products never come with cellular radios. Oct 17 13:16:44 I for one hope they'd invent a better name than IT Oct 17 13:16:49 who Oct 17 13:16:52 #6/ Oct 17 13:16:54 bah Oct 17 13:16:56 whoever decides the names :-) Oct 17 13:17:10 Weberator Oct 17 13:17:12 that's my pick. Oct 17 13:17:30 haha Oct 17 13:17:33 if you look at the likes of openmoko you will learn that devices that do come with a phone part are just a black box on usb you can not hack Oct 17 13:17:52 you just tell the black box you want to dial and it feeds you back audio Oct 17 13:18:37 not that I think the ITs should have a phone bit, but they could very well have one and still be cool with all the regulatory bodies Oct 17 13:19:44 the faceplate is a nice texture/color too - gives an iconic look Oct 17 13:20:51 Yeah - anything better than the sieve-like chrome of the N800. Oct 17 13:21:34 * GeneralAntilles wants specs. >_> Oct 17 13:24:12 If it were smaller and lighter than the N800, and there was signs of movement towards a fantastically usable UI and powerful built-in apps, I'd seriously consider it. Oct 17 13:24:59 They keyboard is enough for me Oct 17 13:24:59 Save gadget bag room by losing the BT keyboard :) Oct 17 13:25:09 Specs, specs, specs. Oct 17 13:25:25 lardman: it would be for me, if I did more data input. I dunno if I don't do much data input because of the lack of the keyboard, or the lack of the software. Oct 17 13:26:26 Jaffa: I'd be more tempted to try Python on the go with a keyboard Oct 17 13:26:49 Jaffa: Would make it more useful for spreadsheets too Oct 17 13:27:42 agreed Oct 17 13:27:50 The N800 is ugly. Oct 17 13:27:56 ^ lies. Oct 17 13:28:05 ITT still working for everyone? Or has it been /.ed? Oct 17 13:28:20 no jogdial. bastards. Oct 17 13:28:20 It's getting pounded. Oct 17 13:28:28 yep Oct 17 13:28:30 how do I work out the framebuffer size programmatically? Oct 17 13:28:38 engadget, slashdot and digg. Oct 17 13:28:40 * lardman goes off topic here Oct 17 13:29:25 The N800 is ugly. (Sorry if this is a dupe, I was lagged.) Oct 17 13:30:24 ^ repeated lies. :P Oct 17 13:30:38 also: *YOU think the N800 is ugly. :P Oct 17 13:30:45 I, personally, think it looks quite nice. Oct 17 13:31:07 lardman: for a standard framebuffer there are ioctl call Oct 17 13:32:12 keesj: I found some code, thanks Oct 17 13:33:09 Ouch. ITT is 404ing now. Oct 17 13:33:45 me want developer device program. i doubt they'll do it again for the n810 tho since n800 will also run chinook Oct 17 13:34:35 Man, itt went down fast. Oct 17 13:36:00 how do I see a process's memory usage on the device? Oct 17 13:36:52 disq: agreed :) Oct 17 13:37:13 ossostatusbarcpu or you could run top and hit shift-m (for a "M") to sort by memory usage Oct 17 13:37:43 According to the Jaiku blog it's getting hammered by big tech sites http://jaiku.com/channel/itT Oct 17 13:37:46 aha, /shift/ m! Oct 17 13:39:12 heh, osso-xterm doesn't even register Oct 17 13:40:10 Hmm, never seen Jaiku before. It seems to be an IRC/Facebook status/Twitter/shoutbox/chatroom thing. Oct 17 13:42:33 hmm, looking at the dsp framebuffer demo code, neither the dsp nor the arm seem to signal anyone to actually write the data to the screen Oct 17 13:42:50 I'd have expected some sort of ioctl Oct 17 13:44:47 so xchat uses about 8m, and irssi uses about 4m, not counting the mem for osso-xterm, which I couldn't get Oct 17 13:44:59 no mem map memset stuff? Oct 17 13:46:12 on the arm side an fbinfo struct is create and passed to the dsp side Oct 17 13:46:29 but it's just a struct, no attempts to do anything with it Oct 17 13:46:39 unless this all happens in the background on the dsp Oct 17 13:46:56 no idea how it's supposed to be triggered though Oct 17 13:47:01 * lardman continues reading Oct 17 13:53:50 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/framebuffer_test/existing/ take a look at tell me if I'm missing something obvious Oct 17 13:54:35 anyone using the vmware images for development? Oct 17 14:00:49 * pupnikU4 tries to follow lardman Oct 17 14:01:09 Tak|770, what are you using to measure memory usage? Oct 17 14:01:44 just top Oct 17 14:01:51 lardman: what is native framebuffer format? rgb565? Oct 17 14:01:52 which field? Oct 17 14:02:30 looking at the mem field and the res field Oct 17 14:02:34 Tak|770, http://koltsoff.com/pub/ures , just FYI. measuring memory usage is not very simple always Oct 17 14:03:16 and the kernel on the device doesn't have smaps AFAIK so that's as good as it's going to get. also xrestop should be used (not 100% sure about the tool name now though) Oct 17 14:03:22 pupnikU4: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup Oct 17 14:03:52 ty Oct 17 14:04:05 Nokia 770 LCD controller [1] natively supports RGB565 and two packed YUV formats Oct 17 14:04:33 so the packed yuv format means less bandwidth needed for screen updates? (assuming the stuff to be drawn is in that fmt)? Oct 17 14:05:02 I suppose so, if you read on a little that's also the general codec output format Oct 17 14:05:03 i guess the main use is for video Oct 17 14:05:25 so you don't need to do yuv-rgb Oct 17 14:05:41 hmm Oct 17 14:05:47 yeah, though the format is not quite the same - needs conversion Oct 17 14:06:41 czr: 1) yes, I'm aware of this; I just wanted a quick measure 2) the device doesn't have very sophisticated memory metric tools on board Oct 17 14:06:56 Tak|770, indeed. good :-) Oct 17 14:08:54 * lardman realises he's a muppet - need to use dspctl with the framebuffer code Oct 17 14:09:23 * pupnikU4 plays the muppet theme song Oct 17 14:09:34 * czr plays the swedish cook part Oct 17 14:10:36 http://www.internettablettalk.com/ just pooped Oct 17 14:10:48 didnt last long Oct 17 14:11:12 It's been in and out since 9:30 Oct 17 14:11:12 yep Oct 17 14:11:25 (EDT) Oct 17 14:11:28 I have been good until just now Oct 17 14:11:45 oh, yup its back Oct 17 14:11:46 hehe Oct 17 14:11:55 * Tak|770 dibs on Beeker Oct 17 14:12:12 is there an sale date yet Oct 17 14:12:23 or cpu/mem specs anywhere Oct 17 14:12:24 Nope, nor specs. Oct 17 14:12:28 doh Oct 17 14:13:08 oh well, back to KDE. I can't wait to see how it runs on new hardware Oct 17 14:14:02 looking to bump the digg story - not finding it Oct 17 14:14:49 pupnikU4: Although that sorts out mapping the framebuffer, i still can't see where it's updated Oct 17 14:15:58 do you mean the n770_x11_init()? that's just to prevent X from drawing afaik Oct 17 14:16:03 pupnikU4: search for N810 Oct 17 14:16:16 pupnikU4: no, in the dsp code - url earlier Oct 17 14:16:29 oh Oct 17 14:16:37 http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810# Oct 17 14:16:45 lots of nice pics Oct 17 14:17:05 not sure I like the camera staring at me all the time Oct 17 14:17:22 feels like nokia is watching me Oct 17 14:17:35 would it help to know that nokia is watching you already? Oct 17 14:17:41 just a little parnoid maybe Oct 17 14:17:46 hehe Oct 17 14:17:48 Ha, Nokia is going to hax ur interwebz and post pictures of your ugly mug all over the world. :P Oct 17 14:17:53 lol Oct 17 14:18:23 I'm not that ugly Oct 17 14:18:27 hehe Oct 17 14:18:29 :P Oct 17 14:18:48 hola Oct 17 14:19:06 besides they cant see crap on that n800 camera Oct 17 14:19:19 penguinbait, that's why they have the other cameras Oct 17 14:19:46 in one of the little holes pretending to be a speaker perhaps Oct 17 14:19:55 or behind the touchscreen? Oct 17 14:20:09 err, in your cupboards, your TV and windows Oct 17 14:20:22 showerhead, too. Oct 17 14:20:28 GeneralAntilles, sshh. Oct 17 14:20:29 no, thats the government Oct 17 14:20:39 penguinbait, who says that Nokia isn't one? Oct 17 14:21:09 Although I have personal experience with nokia repair, and that may be governmant run Oct 17 14:21:15 it would explain alot Oct 17 14:21:24 * czr nods Oct 17 14:21:48 I could tell more, but I'd have to.. file two requests for acquisitions, file three reports, ask my supervisors, etc.. Oct 17 14:22:09 no prob, dont go out of your way Oct 17 14:22:16 I am sure I am a security rick Oct 17 14:22:19 I am sure I am a security risk Oct 17 14:22:35 heh. not to worry :-) Oct 17 14:22:40 Security Rick! Oct 17 14:22:43 * GeneralAntilles plays the action music. Oct 17 14:22:45 as long as you're entertaining, no one will mind :-) Oct 17 14:23:20 you know Security Rick, he worked at my lask job Oct 17 14:23:33 might have been with a D though? Oct 17 14:23:39 I thought that was Security Bob Oct 17 14:23:42 s/R/D Oct 17 14:24:06 the one who is married to Security Alice. Oct 17 14:25:28 hmm. anyone running Xephyr over ssh? Oct 17 14:25:48 so that the stuff in the SDK will connect to a xephyr on another host? (doesn't have to be ssh though) Oct 17 14:28:42 speakers are on the sides Oct 17 14:29:52 does anyone recognize the dpad from another product? i want to know if it's a high-resistance click-type (like the 770/N800) or a low-resistance non-click dpad Oct 17 14:31:47 Anybody have a guess when the specs might be announced? Oct 17 14:33:32 milhouse: really great comments on itt. about the graduate intern and all Oct 17 14:34:28 Oct 23 will be some kind of announcement i think Oct 17 14:35:07 <|R> ok what the FUCK.... can someone explain this: i fucked up my latest OS 2007 install by doing rm -rf bin in the wrong folder.... i reflashed, then microB when installed was screwed up on tableteer's page which it wasnt before... then i reflashed again because removing microB killed the whole browser... and now i see preferences from the original INSTALLATION! Oct 17 14:35:16 * |R really has a bad day :| Oct 17 14:35:33 I hope we don't get left with pics without specs for the next 6 days. Oct 17 14:35:41 you restored backup it would seem Oct 17 14:36:00 http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 Oct 17 14:36:05 i am guessing lardman's guess is right :) Oct 17 14:36:10 <|R> pcfe : uhm yes but that didn't do it the first flashing, but you're right, weird! Oct 17 14:36:20 <|R> i get very inconsistent results... maybe i should sleep ;) Oct 17 14:36:27 disq: soon milhouse'll get a texratting for being too negative. Interesting that ragnar said it's as thick as the non-bumpy bit of the N800. That'd be very impressive. Oct 17 14:36:38 yes, if the results are inconsistent you should close all root shells, open a beer and relax Oct 17 14:36:46 <|R> hehe :) Oct 17 14:37:03 <|R> i had everything fixed and screwed up big time, argh... :/ Oct 17 14:37:08 http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/about.html Oct 17 14:37:15 wonder if that would work on the tablets too Oct 17 14:37:19 :) Oct 17 14:37:23 It does Oct 17 14:37:30 be on your desktop then use your mouse over to the 770 800 Oct 17 14:37:31 but it's a pain to get the pointer turned on and visible. Oct 17 14:37:34 <|R> there is a quicksynergy package Oct 17 14:37:36 Ahh Oct 17 14:37:45 im still haveing issues getting it to autostart iin osx Oct 17 14:37:52 sigh they should just make a pkg Oct 17 14:38:08 Teleport is better for OSX to OSX Oct 17 14:38:08 synergy? Oct 17 14:38:09 <_Monkey> synergy is mouse and keyboard sharing between computer and tablet: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/synergy2/ https://garage.maemo.org/projects/unique311/ and for 770 http://pupnik.de/synergy-maemo_1.3.1-1_armel.deb Oct 17 14:38:47 very sweet Oct 17 14:39:04 who is running Monkey, btw? Oct 17 14:39:50 it's sort of annoying at times. It'd be much better if you had to ask it explicitly, not? Oct 17 14:39:56 looking at n810 it appears a bit smaller than 770, and maybe 1.4 times as thick Oct 17 14:40:52 keyboard should make it ticker Oct 17 14:40:54 about 90% of its responses are not useful Oct 17 14:41:18 hmmm your refering to the leaked screenshot? Oct 17 14:41:47 shots Oct 17 14:42:00 small keys could me worse than on the screen board Oct 17 14:42:45 it appears to have the on screen keyboard also! Oct 17 14:43:00 my fingers are ticker then pen pick Oct 17 14:44:37 wimax? Oct 17 14:44:50 Lets hope not. Oct 17 14:45:19 nokia has to sell; they need new device Oct 17 14:46:01 Anyone know yet if the N810 has a faster CPU than the N800? Oct 17 14:46:14 god I hope so Oct 17 14:46:34 and a battery capable to handle that Oct 17 14:46:49 I really hope it doesn't Oct 17 14:47:04 you hope its not faster Oct 17 14:47:05 huh Oct 17 14:47:06 if it doesn't then I can be happy with my N800 and a bluetooth keyboard Oct 17 14:47:11 me too Oct 17 14:47:19 you can be happy regardless Oct 17 14:47:22 thtas silly Oct 17 14:47:23 its better for my wallet that way Oct 17 14:47:28 because otherwise I'll have to get it :P Oct 17 14:47:33 i don't think they upgraded the cpu Oct 17 14:47:37 what types of audio streams i can listen on standard maemo audio player? Oct 17 14:47:52 you can always skip a tablet, a new one will be out in a year ;) Oct 17 14:47:58 Well, actually I hope it doesn't have a faster CPU too ... I have an N800, and while I can do without the keyboard, I'd be jealous of a faster CPU =) Oct 17 14:48:23 chinook will run faster on the n800 anyway Oct 17 14:48:28 faster than bora i mean Oct 17 14:48:41 I really hope we get an OMAP 34xx in there. Oct 17 14:48:42 graphical apps surely Oct 17 14:48:46 disq, oh? Oct 17 14:48:49 I want KDE to run faster, who cares about chinook Oct 17 14:48:54 they're constantly optimizing the code Oct 17 14:48:59 disq: aha? any more details on that? Oct 17 14:49:17 kde is bloated Oct 17 14:49:28 so I am, but I work well Oct 17 14:49:35 :) Oct 17 14:49:35 kde isn't that bad Oct 17 14:49:38 no details. if you try/run sardine, you see the difference. that's all Oct 17 14:49:41 if you don't install every little tool there is Oct 17 14:49:52 I love fish in KDE Oct 17 14:49:55 and disable graphical effects and things like that Oct 17 14:49:58 konqueor is awesome Oct 17 14:50:02 it can run at a reasonable speed on a slow machine Oct 17 14:50:16 my sister used it as her desktop environment on a P233 this spring Oct 17 14:50:20 ran nicely Oct 17 14:50:23 just wondow manager works wven faster Oct 17 14:50:28 *window Oct 17 14:50:31 of course 1.5 years ago kde was horrible, had so many memory leaks Oct 17 14:50:39 but they have fixed those now, went trought all of it with valgrind Oct 17 14:50:56 * Sho_ notes that the KDE project originally hosted the Valgrind project Oct 17 14:51:12 I can print from the browser, I can print pdf, picture, docs Oct 17 14:51:20 I have a real computer Oct 17 14:51:25 this new gadget is not targeting fols on this list, I think Oct 17 14:51:36 penguinbait, print to pdf isn't really among kde's high points Oct 17 14:51:40 its faster that my toshiba libretto 166mmx Oct 17 14:51:51 the resulting file looks uglier and is larger file size than it is by creating the pdf with other methods Oct 17 14:51:54 print pdf to printer Oct 17 14:52:05 printing period Oct 17 14:52:18 heh Oct 17 14:52:28 I mean even dumping a screenshot of the document to a tiff file and using tiff2pdf produces better result than kdes print to pdf Oct 17 14:52:34 printing = can o' worms, but it'd be nice Oct 17 14:53:06 it already is nice Oct 17 14:53:27 btw how is printing on the iphone? Oct 17 15:00:54 both my PalmOS device and my S60r3 phone can print. Apart form 2 or 3 printouts on each device to see it works and show someone it works, I have never needed this Oct 17 15:01:25 then again I have a deep aversion against putting stuff on dead trees. Oct 17 15:01:40 used camera on n800? Oct 17 15:01:40 searching on dead trees is just too much of a pita Oct 17 15:02:06 same, once to see it works when I got it and twicce when testing video calling with another N800 user Oct 17 15:03:16 I found one post that was excited about gps on n810 Oct 17 15:04:40 pcfe: If I'm gonna do a lot of reading, I prefer dead trees. Oct 17 15:06:13 zoran: Oh GPS I use a lot, just an external one ATM Oct 17 15:06:43 if N810 indeed has GPS, the big question will be what chipset they used, crappy one like in N95 or decent onle like Sirf III or better Oct 17 15:08:05 Veggen: yes, I understand some people want to have dead trees. Fair enough. I used to print for the convenience of carriying the reading material to places my computer would not go, but with N800 and a 12" notebook I've stopped doing that Oct 17 15:08:05 maybe people like thing more modular, not all in one? Oct 17 15:08:53 zoran: look at N95, seems most non-geek users want as many features as possible into one device. That thing sells like hot cupcakes Oct 17 15:09:24 and Nokia will quite obviously giove the market what it wants, they need to make revenue Oct 17 15:11:21 pcfe, or better? whats better than Sirf III? Oct 17 15:12:24 The MTK chipset in the i-blues Oct 17 15:14:58 interesting Oct 17 15:15:16 yet another way 770/ n800 saves the environment Oct 17 15:16:07 do you think those photos were released by accident? Oct 17 15:16:35 Or are Nokia just trying to build us into a frenzy by not producing a press release with technical details, etc.? Oct 17 15:17:08 TPC: not sure, last time I looked deeply into GPS chipsets was about a year ago when I got my GPSlim 236 have not looked deeply since, so the 'or better' was just in case something better came out in th elast year Oct 17 15:17:16 Probably no developer program for this device .. Oct 17 15:17:48 ffs, osso has broken :( Oct 17 15:17:53 alterego: what makes you say that? Oct 17 15:17:54 I can't seem to get my bindings working. Oct 17 15:18:19 lardman: well, is Nokia some small shop that does a product release for the first time, or a big multinational that dominates a big part of the market? ;-) Oct 17 15:19:30 to me it looks that apple made them run faster Oct 17 15:20:04 the keyboard will make it a much better general purpose linux machine Oct 17 15:20:34 if you could find the keys Oct 17 15:22:14 see blackberrys and zaurus for similar sized keys Oct 17 15:22:55 * alterego hits head. Oct 17 15:23:03 Forgot run-standalone.sh :) Oct 17 15:24:57 pupnikafk, I just try to find reason not to spend the money and buy Oct 17 15:31:09 http://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/ Oct 17 15:36:52 snowmoon: heh Oct 17 15:37:32 c'mon... where are the specs? Oct 17 15:37:50 Release date & price, too. Oct 17 15:37:58 Release date especially important for IT OS 2008 for our N800s Oct 17 15:38:35 I'm looking forward to IT OS 2008..(or whatever it is, I hope it comes before christmas ;) Oct 17 15:39:03 just if specs are close enough Oct 17 15:41:40 if one writes to the framebuffer, are the updates propogated eventually (i.e. is there some timeout) if you don;t explicitly use the ioctl to update it>] Oct 17 15:41:55 s/>]/?/ Oct 17 15:41:56 lardman meant: if one writes to the framebuffer, are the updates propogated eventually (i.e. is there some timeout) if you don;t explicitly use the ioctl to update it? Oct 17 16:02:26 Is it possible to boot an N800 an not start X11? Oct 17 16:03:12 if you have ssh Oct 17 16:06:02 nad_ interesting option would be to start x (for keyboadr) and small manager like evilwm Oct 17 16:06:46 zoran: I just want to run some tests on the framebuffer, I don't want X around... Oct 17 16:07:37 ah, yes; you must to have hands on it; ssh Oct 17 16:08:54 heh - will there be an OS2008HE for the 770? Oct 17 16:08:56 The specs are here Oct 17 16:08:57 http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html Oct 17 16:09:03 Someone just posted them on Tabletblog Oct 17 16:09:22 Ugh Oct 17 16:09:25 Not much of an upgrade. Oct 17 16:09:28 zoran: sorry I don't understand what you mean by " you must to have hands on it" Oct 17 16:09:40 Tak, lemme chack on my box Oct 17 16:09:47 sorry, nad_ Oct 17 16:09:54 moo? Oct 17 16:10:07 that can't be right... 2gb SD support? Oct 17 16:10:07 hmm, specs for the N810 aren't much better than N800 Oct 17 16:10:22 nm Oct 17 16:11:05 although hopefully they fixed some of the cockups with, e.g., video bandwidth Oct 17 16:11:05 Yeah, no buy for me. Oct 17 16:11:09 It's the 800 with GPS and thumboard Oct 17 16:11:12 I want me OMAP 34xx Oct 17 16:11:15 nad_, looks like you could rename some links in /etc/rc2.d not to have x up Oct 17 16:11:31 Yes Oct 17 16:11:33 Well, at least we'll get Chinook soon enough. Oct 17 16:11:50 It says 2008, so I guess it wont be till after christmas. Oct 17 16:11:56 "Operating system updates available over the Internet" Oct 17 16:11:59 well, the only thing I like about the new one is GPS ... that was what I was left wanting when I bought my n800 a couple weeks ago. Oct 17 16:12:00 nad_, after that, be sure to have ssh connection to the box Oct 17 16:12:10 They've dumped Opera .. Oct 17 16:12:22 though, the keyboard might be useful. Depends a bit on what it's like to use. Oct 17 16:13:11 like the specs.. and internal gps rocks Oct 17 16:13:19 It's thinner than the 800 but longer and wider ( WTF? ) Oct 17 16:13:37 zorane: hmm, right now I ssh over wireless, but it looks like the wireless is started from within X... Do I need a serial console, or there is some other way? Oct 17 16:14:04 nad_, do you have wi-fi net at home? Oct 17 16:14:19 nad_, you can use iwconfig et all. Oct 17 16:14:19 It'd be a shame if we couldn't get them for months Oct 17 16:14:41 lame upgrade... I suppose that's why it's the 810 and not the 900 Oct 17 16:14:42 Well, they wouldn't call it OS2008 if they were releasing it in 2007 would they :P Oct 17 16:15:23 My only hope is that it will push down the price on the n800 further Oct 17 16:15:32 zoran: I do Oct 17 16:15:55 If we can't buy it until next year that's actually frustrating. I'd rather they'd have held back until they were ready to ship. Didn't they announce the N800 the day they went on sale? Oct 17 16:16:00 alterego: I hope that means significant improvement in the gecko backends Oct 17 16:16:09 As much as I'd love the new device. I think I'll just wait for the N900 or my N800 to break Oct 17 16:16:09 see i kinda want somthing that is inbetween the 800 and a laptop Oct 17 16:16:20 none of the umpc's ahve both camera and keyboad it seems Oct 17 16:16:32 i cant find one that is a good combo of both for less then 1500 Oct 17 16:16:33 I notice they say the browser is Mozilla based Oct 17 16:16:33 Tak, indeed. Oct 17 16:16:39 Opera dropped? Oct 17 16:16:40 h.264 is on the supported video formats list Oct 17 16:16:53 alterego: I don't think N810 is different enough for me either. As long as it's similar enough that the OS stays compatible. Oct 17 16:16:58 Is an N800 fast enough for h.264 in the default player? Oct 17 16:17:02 engadget is reporting more ram... shipping in nov for $479 Oct 17 16:17:03 With the video bottleneck Oct 17 16:17:17 did I miss something? Oct 17 16:17:17 alterego: where is iwconfig, I can't seem to find it.. Oct 17 16:17:26 nad_, you have to install it. Oct 17 16:17:34 wireless-tools or whatever the package is called. Oct 17 16:17:35 nad_, openssh installed? Oct 17 16:17:56 zoran: yep Oct 17 16:17:56 oh, yeah - is everybody else seeing the unupgradable openssh upgrade packages? Oct 17 16:17:57 Yeah, it says "maximum of 2Gb internal memory" .. Oct 17 16:18:12 It'll run 16GB SDHC Oct 17 16:18:14 now if they put kde on it from the get go Oct 17 16:18:14 Guaranteed. Oct 17 16:18:32 nad_, if you could connect from desktop, you are up Oct 17 16:18:37 KDE sucks donkey dicks. Oct 17 16:19:00 Want KDE? Get a Zaurus .. Oct 17 16:19:14 hell id want osx on it Oct 17 16:19:17 ehhe Oct 17 16:19:21 http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777246 Oct 17 16:19:25 You're a sad boy. Oct 17 16:19:29 Looks like an extra button on top. Oct 17 16:19:30 was thinkign if i coud hack a umpc with the osx86 Oct 17 16:19:57 Looks like the stylus is up above the right speaker Oct 17 16:19:58 drivers would prolly be hell though Oct 17 16:20:07 Samsung is what you want for that. Oct 17 16:20:08 zoran: I can, but I was worried that if X is not up, the wireless will not start... I just installed wireless-tools. I'll try to see if I can make it work with iwconfig... Oct 17 16:20:09 where are these hw specs coming from? Oct 17 16:20:12 Evidently it works ok. Oct 17 16:20:15 could be a desk lock latch Oct 17 16:20:22 * Tak agree with alterego and make alterego his official spokesperson Oct 17 16:20:22 Nokia. Oct 17 16:20:23 <_Monkey> somebody said nokia was a company. It also sponsors maemo using sales of N800s. Buy one. Buy two! Oct 17 16:20:28 <[31d1]> hmm, iphone SDK Oct 17 16:20:34 nad_, on my 770 ssh starts from separate soft link in rc2.d Oct 17 16:20:46 Look at the domain, lardman. Oct 17 16:21:08 http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777236 Oct 17 16:21:09 please elaborate GeneralAntilles Oct 17 16:21:20 On the Samsung? Oct 17 16:21:44 [31d1], you mean Safari? Oct 17 16:21:52 <||cw> n800 has 128MB ram right? Oct 17 16:21:54 alterego: I noticed that too... mozilla based browser. interesting. Oct 17 16:21:57 Retail package that looks ready to go Oct 17 16:22:04 Might be released sooner than you think. Oct 17 16:22:14 http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ Oct 17 16:22:16 <[31d1]> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/ Oct 17 16:22:22 I'm really disappointed by the lack of a specs upgrade, though. :( Oct 17 16:22:25 SDP, not very interesting to me until they start shipping libxul .. Oct 17 16:22:46 off topic: anybody have a solution to use mc on putty with utf8, with the line drawing characters? LANG=C is not a good idea as it disables utf8 input in mc Oct 17 16:23:07 November Oct 17 16:23:29 Anyhow, I doubt they'll do a dev program for this device. Oct 17 16:23:36 As it's really just an N800 with a couple of mods. Oct 17 16:23:54 so there's still no official spec announcment then? Oct 17 16:23:56 There's not benifit to developers, (except maybe for the GPS) Oct 17 16:24:10 Too bad. Oct 17 16:24:21 In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if Nokia stop the developer program completely now. Oct 17 16:24:37 * GeneralAntilles slaps lardman with a link: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html Oct 17 16:25:02 GeneralAntilles: Thanks, not sure where I was supposed to see that though... Oct 17 16:25:04 http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777248 Oct 17 16:25:13 Scroll up. ;) Oct 17 16:25:18 ah. yeah Oct 17 16:25:23 I've just joined, at home Oct 17 16:25:28 maps included Oct 17 16:25:52 one SD slot? Oct 17 16:25:52 It was sent after you joined. :P Oct 17 16:26:03 though makes sense with the bumped up internal mem Oct 17 16:26:16 The themes are getting worse .. Oct 17 16:26:19 2 slots Oct 17 16:26:24 Who cares about the themes? Oct 17 16:26:30 2gig could mean they're not using jffs2 anymore Oct 17 16:26:31 The 3rd-party stuff is so much better, anyway. Oct 17 16:26:34 Hooray for Plankton! Oct 17 16:26:35 as jffs2 is slow Oct 17 16:26:39 inside card Oct 17 16:26:47 outside could be 8 Gb Oct 17 16:26:59 zoran: ssh needs the network layer to be up, and I don't know if it is started without X11 (it seemed to me that it is started by the wireless applet). I am still investigating how can I start it with the iw* tools Oct 17 16:27:01 probably vfat Oct 17 16:27:01 3rd party themes? Oct 17 16:27:10 Yay N810! Oct 17 16:27:13 I've seen a couple and they were boring. Oct 17 16:27:18 nad_, don't rush! Oct 17 16:27:22 Seen Plankton? Oct 17 16:27:22 <_Monkey> I haven't seen 'Plankton', GeneralAntilles Oct 17 16:27:27 >_> Oct 17 16:27:29 He needs a trigger Oct 17 16:27:30 "3.5 mm stereo headphone plug (Nokia AV Connector)" "AV"? hmmmm Oct 17 16:27:30 just send a mail to maemo-users Oct 17 16:27:33 "V"! :) Oct 17 16:27:42 Boo! No specs bump, shapr. ;) Oct 17 16:27:54 Wah? Oct 17 16:28:06 disq: I noticed that too Oct 17 16:28:11 It's a bit faster. Oct 17 16:28:12 nad_, do you ahve a min for me to fire up the device? Oct 17 16:28:23 80MHz Oct 17 16:28:29 What's up with the "up to 2GB internal memory" ? Oct 17 16:28:29 disq, that is on the N800 too. Oct 17 16:28:34 zoran: sure, thanks! Oct 17 16:28:36 what, what? n810 is announced already and I didn't notice??? Oct 17 16:28:41 Regardless, the N810 looks really nasty .. Oct 17 16:28:47 Bullshit Oct 17 16:28:49 It looks great. Oct 17 16:28:56 Looks like the webcam only faces forward. Oct 17 16:29:02 I'll get it for the internal GPS. Oct 17 16:29:04 http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html Oct 17 16:29:06 compared to the bulge... the 810 is slicker Oct 17 16:29:08 GeneralAntilles, we've already discovered your bad taste in aesthetics :P Oct 17 16:29:19 By what, Plankton? Oct 17 16:29:20 80mhz bump, plus the filesystem could be ext2/ext3/reiserfs now, using jffs2 is a waste of cpu when you have the space Oct 17 16:29:22 You're kidding, right? Oct 17 16:29:23 ooh, ambient light sensor.. is that just the camera? Oct 17 16:29:25 The speakers are on the back. Oct 17 16:29:28 Fan of Vista then, right? Oct 17 16:29:39 70mhz... 330->400 ( last I checked that's 70 ) Oct 17 16:29:40 O_o Oct 17 16:29:51 * GeneralAntilles is bad at math. Oct 17 16:29:56 snowmoon, it's exactly the same chip as in the N800. Oct 17 16:29:57 Speakers are on the side. Oct 17 16:30:05 Oh, it switched to a Mozilla browser? No more Opera? Oct 17 16:30:07 Back side. Oct 17 16:30:09 no N810 article on wikipedia yet Oct 17 16:30:13 snowmoon: 320.37 bogomips is probably 320mhz and not 330? Oct 17 16:30:32 nad_, first is fb-progress.sh Oct 17 16:30:34 disq: bongomips ~= mhz in any way shape or form Oct 17 16:30:40 != Oct 17 16:30:43 then ppp Oct 17 16:30:52 then dnsmasq Oct 17 16:31:00 dbus and ssh Oct 17 16:31:05 in intel that is. Oct 17 16:31:22 lmce, x server next Oct 17 16:31:35 af-services Oct 17 16:31:36 disq: Does the AV connector mean the plug does microphone in as well? Oct 17 16:31:52 the plug always did microphone Oct 17 16:31:55 oh Oct 17 16:32:00 Even on the 770? Oct 17 16:32:05 not on the 770 Oct 17 16:32:12 dsp-init, bluez,bme-proxy,osso-hss Oct 17 16:32:13 Ok, I only have a 770. Oct 17 16:32:16 shapr, yes. Exactly like the N800. Oct 17 16:32:31 esd, osso-systemui Oct 17 16:32:36 Was planning to buy an N800 next month, but I'll get an N810 instead. Oct 17 16:32:39 * mgedmin wants more pics Oct 17 16:32:41 btcond Oct 17 16:32:58 ke-recv, wlancond Oct 17 16:33:01 hiya mgedmin Oct 17 16:33:04 shapr, at $230 versus $480? Oct 17 16:33:07 hi shapr Oct 17 16:33:16 what, $480 Oct 17 16:33:20 that's robbery! Oct 17 16:33:24 GeneralAntilles: Where can you get an N800 for $230? Oct 17 16:33:26 MSRP $479 Oct 17 16:33:28 good think USD is down right now Oct 17 16:33:32 shapr: buy.com Oct 17 16:33:33 Interesting that the Ti website has no mention of an omap 2420 clocked at 400MHz Oct 17 16:33:33 <_Monkey> it has been said that buy.com is awesome because they ship free and dont charge tax a lot of places Oct 17 16:33:41 In that case... N800 it is. Oct 17 16:33:52 nad_, what do you think about? Oct 17 16:34:02 safe enough? Oct 17 16:34:07 lardman, if you looked at the docs in more detail you'd see it. Oct 17 16:34:13 It's carefully hidden away. Oct 17 16:34:20 $480 ~= $340 EUR --> more or less what I paid for my fist 770 Oct 17 16:34:21 zoran: still looking Oct 17 16:34:31 I imagine this means that Chinook has got better PM. Oct 17 16:34:32 mgedmin: http://www.nokia.com/A4136017?category=n810 Oct 17 16:34:47 thanks, general! Oct 17 16:35:07 alterego: indeed, on the first page of the pdf, my mistake Oct 17 16:35:21 :) Oct 17 16:35:43 I'm in the UK. I wonder when I'll be able to buy one Oct 17 16:35:44 Anyhow, enough of this gibber gabber. Oct 17 16:35:44 * lardman was worried it was a 2430, with no DSP Oct 17 16:35:48 * alterego gets back to work. Oct 17 16:39:30 hm, the top is not visible in those pictures Oct 17 16:39:35 what do the zoom keys look like? Oct 17 16:39:50 yeah maybe it's butt ugly Oct 17 16:39:54 http://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/ Oct 17 16:39:59 I wonder that also. Oct 17 16:40:17 http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777244 wtf is that connector... it's not standard USB Oct 17 16:40:33 http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/ Oct 17 16:40:38 Micro-usb Oct 17 16:40:38 no a2dp listed on the supported bluetooth profile list Oct 17 16:40:52 It looks like that's a button on the top left front corner. Oct 17 16:41:02 battery could be weaker for all those parts Oct 17 16:41:42 lardman: Yeah, that's slightly worrisome. Oct 17 16:42:08 Yeah, wtf is that usb connector? Oct 17 16:42:46 micro-usb Oct 17 16:43:09 If it's micro, how come it looks bigger than mini-usb Oct 17 16:43:19 looks like we've lost a memory card slot too Oct 17 16:43:27 It's kinda weird to have the d-pad on the slide-in keyboard. Oct 17 16:43:41 I didn't name the spec. >_> Oct 17 16:43:47 I think the dpad loss was to make it's flootprint much smaller Oct 17 16:43:58 http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/1601800354/ Oct 17 16:44:29 I do like the smaller footprint. Oct 17 16:44:49 N800 is a ridiculously better buy at this point. Oct 17 16:44:53 ugh - dpad on slideout is horrible Oct 17 16:45:14 GeneralAntilles: Yep, and this new unit is going to further drive down the price on the 800 Oct 17 16:45:21 shapr: don't worry it's on the todo list, so we'll get it eventually Oct 17 16:45:42 Can't wait for Chinook. Oct 17 16:46:00 Good to hear. Oct 17 16:46:25 does someone have any idea why my python program is showing up like a regular gtk-program even though I use hildon.Window? I'm running bora SDK in x86 mode. Oct 17 16:46:58 Jiten_, running using run-standalone.sh? Oct 17 16:47:05 I don't think so Oct 17 16:47:39 doesn't using hildon.Window make it unnecessary? Oct 17 16:47:45 Try "run-standalone.sh " Oct 17 16:47:56 a micro usb plug next to a mini usb plug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USB_types_2.jpg Oct 17 16:47:57 Jiten_, in the device, yes Oct 17 16:48:03 looks a bit smaller Oct 17 16:48:16 shame about not being able to reuse the same cable Oct 17 16:48:16 Thinner is the key Oct 17 16:48:22 while in the SDK, run-standalone.sh sets some env variables to fix it Oct 17 16:49:04 wonder if its a powerd usb Oct 17 16:49:24 Highly unlikely. Oct 17 16:49:46 ah, right, thank you Oct 17 16:50:47 multimedia tablet Oct 17 16:52:26 * zoran goes to measure fire temperature at dragons' cave Oct 17 16:52:38 interesting: "handwriting recognition" is not listed among input methods Oct 17 16:53:34 maybe the binary module cost them too much :) Oct 17 16:53:58 "Operating system updates available over the Internet" -- sounds like future OS upgrades via apt-get Oct 17 16:54:13 I wonder if the mail client is the old brain-dead one, or if modest is finally ready Oct 17 16:56:04 future updates via apt-get sounds good. Oct 17 16:56:06 what's the diff between BP-4L and BP-5L batteries? both are 1500mAh Li-polymer Oct 17 16:56:16 different form factor? Oct 17 16:56:18 both 1500mah? hmm. form factor then Oct 17 16:58:22 hm.. specs has been posted Oct 17 16:58:40 technically, the method we have now could be called "over the Internet" Oct 17 17:01:44 20g heavier... Oct 17 17:04:43 Sounds like you'll have to start working out. :P Oct 17 17:05:03 20g heavier, but a smaller, more pocketable footprint Oct 17 17:05:31 hm.. only miniSD and microSD? Oct 17 17:05:33 that sucks Oct 17 17:05:35 pocketprint Oct 17 17:06:13 With the extender Oct 17 17:06:16 It's an SD slot. Oct 17 17:07:53 zoran: I need to postpone this until later today, my wifi AP does not like the N800 very much, the link goes down from time to time... I have another AP, but not here and I've never had problems with that one... Oct 17 17:13:30 buttons on top: http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777246 Oct 17 17:22:15 I wonder if the map application included with chinook can be used on the N800 as well with a bluetooth GPS Oct 17 17:26:02 I wonder when chinook will be available for the N800 Oct 17 17:26:17 probably time to install scratchbox again, given how it's not binary compatible with bora Oct 17 17:26:20 it says in the announcement on maemo.org Oct 17 17:26:27 the same day sales start, mid november Oct 17 17:27:07 "The Nokia N810 will be in the shops on mid November. As soon as sales start, N800 users will be able to upgrade to the OS2008 as well." - http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192637131.html Oct 17 17:27:40 mgedmin: it kind of depends whether it's compatible or not Oct 17 17:27:49 <||cw> http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-hands-on/ Oct 17 17:28:00 also http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html Oct 17 17:28:10 depends on what version of debian devkit you have Oct 17 17:28:14 the biggest reason that n770 things don't work on the n800 is the built in floating point unit, right? Oct 17 17:28:22 no Oct 17 17:28:29 heh, I like the model number "NOO" on that picture Oct 17 17:28:36 the n800 doesn't use the fp unit for much at all Oct 17 17:28:44 ooh, translucency effects Oct 17 17:28:54 unless the n810 has another such big change, I doubt things will get really uncompatible.. at least, I hope Oct 17 17:30:09 wouldn't like my n800 to be obsolete (by nokia's standards) already Oct 17 17:31:06 isn't Oct 17 17:31:11 looks like nokia learned the lesson Oct 17 17:31:26 the n810 looks like an alternative to n800 for those who cried (very loudly) for a hardware keyboard Oct 17 17:31:46 same software, (mostly) same hardware capabilities Oct 17 17:32:00 gps is nice, though Oct 17 17:32:44 its a nice upgrade, 70mhz extra, built in gps, keyboard Oct 17 17:32:55 but not worth the extra monkey if you have a 800 already Oct 17 17:32:58 money* Oct 17 17:33:17 <[31d1]> extra monkey is always worth it Oct 17 17:33:27 only when they give it to you Oct 17 17:33:32 not the other way around Oct 17 17:33:42 * mgedmin wishes he had an extra monkey Oct 17 17:33:45 gps sounds really nice, though it probably means faster battery drain, the keyboard I wouldn't really use anyway Oct 17 17:34:35 I wonder if the maps app is (a) open source (b) based on maemo mapper Oct 17 17:34:45 probably no on both counts Oct 17 17:35:25 "optional 10GB memory card"? Oct 17 17:35:29 well, nokia did buy some gps company not long ago Oct 17 17:35:32 where can I get me one of those? Oct 17 17:35:37 so its probably the app from that company Oct 17 17:35:44 10gb? wow Oct 17 17:36:34 nice find GeneralAntilles Oct 17 17:36:50 Which? Oct 17 17:37:24 the n810, I suppose Oct 17 17:37:45 your link to the tech specs here was the first thing I heard about it Oct 17 17:37:55 https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20105749&postID=1155579090765092763 Oct 17 17:37:58 well, okay, shapr talking about it was the first thing I noticed actually Oct 17 17:38:09 anonymous user posted the specs. Oct 17 17:38:15 having to wait till mid november is no fun :( Oct 17 17:38:16 ? Oct 17 17:38:41 otoh maybe my want will wane till then Oct 17 17:39:04 I don't desire the N810 Oct 17 17:39:09 I do, I want the GPS. Oct 17 17:39:12 It's a pretty pointless upgrade for current N800 users. Oct 17 17:39:26 GeneralAntilles: the hardware is muuuuch nicer Oct 17 17:39:45 the muchness depends on whether you want a hardware kb Oct 17 17:39:49 I want the smaller size and the gps Oct 17 17:40:00 shapr: http://www.amazon.com/i-Blue-737-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver/dp/B000KH7MZ4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0809862-2088831?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1192642792&sr=8-1 Oct 17 17:40:03 i hope there's an optional hard case for it Oct 17 17:40:09 GPS is just gonna be a battery waste Oct 17 17:40:18 bluetooth GPS units are cheap Oct 17 17:40:18 I assume you can turn it off Oct 17 17:40:27 lugging around an external gps is not convenient Oct 17 17:40:33 and probably a lot more accurate than what's in an external one Oct 17 17:40:37 Yeah, I really want fewer things to lug around. Oct 17 17:40:40 It's plenty convenient, I just leave it in the car. Oct 17 17:40:41 (whether the convenience is worth an extra $480 is a good question) Oct 17 17:40:50 I'm asking myself that question too. Oct 17 17:41:10 $230 for an N800 and ~$50 for a bluetooth GPS Oct 17 17:41:11 Robot101: 70MHz, fewer SD card slots, reduction in hardware button usability? Oct 17 17:41:18 or $480 for the N810 Oct 17 17:41:20 still, what does "Up to 2GB internal memory" mean in the tech specs? Oct 17 17:41:21 Get the N800 Oct 17 17:41:26 Yeah, I want to know that! Oct 17 17:41:34 given that it also says "Supports cards up to 8GB. " Oct 17 17:41:37 yeah they say 256m flash, and then in storage section up to 2gig internal memory Oct 17 17:41:39 Where does it mention the card slots for the N810? Oct 17 17:41:42 I read somewhere that it has internal memory and two slots Oct 17 17:41:47 the internal memory holds gps maps mostly Oct 17 17:42:11 I assume those 256megs flash are the internal memory Oct 17 17:42:25 maybe you can get a model with more? Oct 17 17:42:28 like ipods? Oct 17 17:42:35 Anyone notice this: We will publish tomorrow the details of the N810 maemo device program. Oct 17 17:42:37 engadget photos seem to indicate no internal sd slot Oct 17 17:42:51 from the maemo announcment Oct 17 17:43:04 I like the dual SD slots in the N800, if the N810 has only one slot, I'll definitely go for the N800 Oct 17 17:43:39 sorry I left for a while, do we have hardware specs? Oct 17 17:43:40 I didn't like that bit with eating SD cards in the external slot on the N800 Oct 17 17:43:44 penguinbait, yes Oct 17 17:43:46 it ate me a 512mb card Oct 17 17:43:47 http://www.maemoapps.com/ Oct 17 17:43:53 where? Oct 17 17:43:53 GeneralAntilles: its smaller, slicker, has a real keyboard. what do you mean 70MHz? Oct 17 17:43:56 With only one slot... how much of that will be taken up by maps on the 810? Oct 17 17:44:10 Robot101: the N800 has a 330 mhz cpu, the N810 has a 400 mhz cpu Oct 17 17:44:14 penguinbait, http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html Oct 17 17:44:23 hmmm, memory Oct 17 17:44:24 oh, I didn't realise it was faster Oct 17 17:44:25 oh thanks Oct 17 17:44:38 Yeah, that's not a $480 upgrade. Oct 17 17:44:51 and I thought it still had two SD slots but I never checked in detail Oct 17 17:44:57 what's the "nub" for? http://www.engadget.com/gallery/nokia-n810-hands-on/443959/ Oct 17 17:45:17 That's an LED Oct 17 17:45:26 Just like the d-pad light on the N800 Oct 17 17:45:32 yay, fullscreen separate from zoom buttons Oct 17 17:46:09 not real impressive huh Oct 17 17:46:58 Nope Oct 17 17:47:07 * GeneralAntilles cries over the lack of OMAP 34xx Oct 17 17:47:11 what's the "Chr" button do? Oct 17 17:47:12 * flip^ glances at the n810 stuff and isn't as impressed as others seem to be Oct 17 17:47:17 Hopefully the N900 isn't more than 6 months away. Oct 17 17:47:29 mgedmin: I'm guessing it's the same as option on Mac OS X Oct 17 17:47:48 * mgedmin doesn't have mac os x Oct 17 17:48:06 entering accented letters? Oct 17 17:48:07 Let's you type the extended characters. Oct 17 17:48:32 http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443966/ Oct 17 17:48:37 Stylus, for all the blind out there. Oct 17 17:48:46 hm Oct 17 17:48:50 and, evidently, a hardware lock. Oct 17 17:48:57 is that a full-size sd slot or a mini-sd slot? Oct 17 17:49:11 It better be fullsize. . . . Oct 17 17:49:35 Wow, check out the change to the application menu. Oct 17 17:49:38 http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443984/ Oct 17 17:51:33 Is there a Nokia Internet Tablet facebook group? Oct 17 17:51:43 there's one maemo users group and one 770 group Oct 17 17:52:01 the app menu changes are not new. Oct 17 17:52:04 they're in sardine too Oct 17 17:52:27 * GeneralAntilles isn't cool enough to run Sardine, so they're new to me. Oct 17 17:52:51 * mgedmin looks at http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443962/ and thinks "no way that's a full-size sd slot" Oct 17 17:52:59 <[31d1]> i wonder if one could get neat new stuff from nokia with the serial of that engadget dealy Oct 17 17:53:35 mgedmin also the fact that it says mini SD on the card is a bit of a giveaway :) Oct 17 17:54:02 the tech specs were a bit ambiguous: http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html#Contents Oct 17 17:54:26 it's not clear whether the (with extender) part applies just to microSD or to both in "Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards (with extender)." Oct 17 17:54:32 <||cw> it will take a 2GB miniSD AND a 8GB SDHC Oct 17 17:54:51 that would be good Oct 17 17:54:57 but where's the second slot? Oct 17 17:55:14 I don't think there is a second slot Oct 17 17:55:22 Too bad Oct 17 17:55:24 was a nice feature Oct 17 17:55:48 ||cw: huh? Oct 17 17:56:21 <||cw> hm, maybe that is ambigious Oct 17 17:56:35 * lardman|afk wonders if the transparency in the Ari Jaaksi post indicates powervr support? Oct 17 17:56:39 <||cw> on first read I though it said 2GB internal and an SDHC Oct 17 17:56:50 it does mention sdhc Oct 17 17:56:53 I think it does say that, but it only mentions one slot. Oct 17 17:56:58 "(SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)" Oct 17 17:57:20 <||cw> internal like under the battery like a lot of phones do Oct 17 17:57:28 lardman|afk: transparency? Oct 17 17:57:31 not visible in the pictures Oct 17 17:57:51 disq: yep Oct 17 17:58:00 where Oct 17 17:58:04 ||cw: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443977/ Oct 17 17:58:15 disq: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html Oct 17 17:58:25 ah, that one. lemme read Oct 17 17:58:30 <||cw> mgedmin: I know... one of the comments says 2 sd slots though Oct 17 17:58:34 mgedmin: Yeah, that doesn't show a spot for a card. Oct 17 17:58:35 http://bp1.blogger.com/_YaAt2fURNNU/RxXcuew1beI/AAAAAAAAACI/J0KcYVHh-E4/s1600-h/17102007448.jpg to be more exact Oct 17 17:59:10 otoh if that indentation in http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443961/ indicates the place for the sd card (accessible from the slot in the bottom), then it looks full-size Oct 17 17:59:34 <||cw> http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=620035&postcount=25 Oct 17 17:59:58 * flip^ wonders if that release of the Internet Tablet OS will end up being able to go on a n800 Oct 17 18:00:11 * lardman|afk imagines so Oct 17 18:00:40 Yes, flip^. Oct 17 18:01:00 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192637131.html Oct 17 18:01:44 <||cw> press releases says 10GB mem card.... Oct 17 18:01:46 aha Oct 17 18:02:12 I guess I'll be reflashing again next month :D Oct 17 18:03:18 Aha, it is mozilla! Oct 17 18:03:40 here's a feature comparison table btwn the different tablets http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html Oct 17 18:03:44 (at the bottom of the page) Oct 17 18:05:33 speaking of mozilla Oct 17 18:05:40 i'm looking for people here who use microb Oct 17 18:06:05 "2 GB in-built, 1 memory card slot (compatible with miniSD and microSD cards up to 8 GB)" Oct 17 18:06:12 in addition to the 256 mb flash Oct 17 18:06:14 interesting Oct 17 18:06:17 <||cw> scroll to the bottom here http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html 2GB internal, I think the maps are on this, and microsd slot Oct 17 18:06:30 timeless: update on iphone.fb.com? Oct 17 18:06:31 generally they're on the internal, yes Oct 17 18:06:34 usb 2.0 otg Oct 17 18:06:39 does that mean host mode support? Oct 17 18:06:40 disq: no, sorry Oct 17 18:06:47 mgedmin: that was the goal Oct 17 18:06:51 * flip^ wonders if they've just glued a 2gb sd card into the internals Oct 17 18:06:52 i'm not quite sure if it happened Oct 17 18:07:33 it'd just be better if it came with 2gig flash Oct 17 18:07:45 flip: i haven't disassembled one yet, but essentially from a functional perspective, you might as well think about it that way Oct 17 18:07:52 i.e. it's listed as a memory card Oct 17 18:08:02 and you can corrupt it like an external memory card :) Oct 17 18:08:07 (don't ask me how) Oct 17 18:08:09 <||cw> I wonder of the 2GB internal is removable Oct 17 18:08:16 and you don't want 2gb of flash Oct 17 18:08:18 with a big enough hammer, yes :-) Oct 17 18:08:18 flash is *slow* Oct 17 18:08:32 * mgedmin always thought sd cards used flash internally, but /me is clueless Oct 17 18:08:36 it's so slow tha the browser has disk cache disabled Oct 17 18:08:41 precisely because of that Oct 17 18:08:42 which reminds me Oct 17 18:08:53 <||cw> mgedmin: there are different types of flash Oct 17 18:08:53 we should really consider forking the browser config based on n810/n800 Oct 17 18:08:57 i.e. we didn't do that :( Oct 17 18:09:03 * timeless sighs Oct 17 18:09:05 what filesystem does the the internal 2 gb use? Oct 17 18:09:13 presumably fat32 Oct 17 18:09:16 i can check tomorrow Oct 17 18:09:32 timeless: isn't flash slow because it uses jffs2? if it was big enough you could use a uncompressed fs Oct 17 18:09:33 i believe since the product is announced, i could have taken one home Oct 17 18:09:39 disq: no Oct 17 18:09:48 at least, i believe it isn't Oct 17 18:10:15 jffs2 is i believe because of the write balancing more than the compression Oct 17 18:10:20 i.e. to avoid burning it out Oct 17 18:10:27 hm, I already have 2.1 gig used on my 4 gig sd card in my n800... Oct 17 18:10:37 ah, yeah. internal flash doesn't have write balancing like the external cards. true, forgot about that Oct 17 18:10:37 my biggest cards are 2g Oct 17 18:10:49 shame, I though I could get away without an external card Oct 17 18:11:06 disq: good, because i'm not a hardware guy, so i can't explain anything beyond that :) Oct 17 18:11:33 * timeless frowns Oct 17 18:11:43 it says there's a hw QWERTY keyboard Oct 17 18:11:53 what if i want an AZERTY or QWERTZ keyboard Oct 17 18:12:02 (actually, i believe it has one of those) Oct 17 18:12:05 disq: you might want to google for movinand Oct 17 18:12:25 sure Oct 17 18:12:46 I want dvorak. Oct 17 18:12:58 shapr: i haven't seen *any* suppor for that :) Oct 17 18:13:10 I've been using dvorak since 1992! Oct 17 18:13:30 * timeless waits for someone to write: "I've been breathing on my own since 1993!" Oct 17 18:13:40 "HW keyboard variants: English, German, French, Italian, Spanish-Portuguese, Scandinavian and Russian" Oct 17 18:13:43 * Tak 1979 Oct 17 18:13:48 * shapr 1971 Oct 17 18:14:07 old. are we. :P Oct 17 18:14:09 * disq 1981 Oct 17 18:14:26 I'm old, but at least I don't look old. Oct 17 18:14:35 you look ancient? Oct 17 18:14:42 * czr 1976 Oct 17 18:15:05 * timeless cries Oct 17 18:15:17 has anyone here looked a the content provided as links from those pages? Oct 17 18:15:17 * univac 1990 ;d Oct 17 18:15:19 Nah, I look about 27. Oct 17 18:15:51 * timeless cries Oct 17 18:16:09 timeless: ? Oct 17 18:16:13 http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/introduction.html Oct 17 18:16:25 > For instance, a web browser on an Internet Tablet is full featured with support to AJAX and Flash. Oct 17 18:16:31 last i checked the 770 doesn't support AJAX or Flash Oct 17 18:16:48 s/doesn't/didn't/ :( Oct 17 18:16:50 Google maps works for me on my 770 with OS2007 Hacker's Edition. Oct 17 18:17:03 shapr: hey're not talking about os2007 Oct 17 18:17:08 oh Oct 17 18:17:09 http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/platforms/maemo/index.html#documentation Oct 17 18:17:15 clearly doesn't lis os2007 in the 770 column Oct 17 18:17:46 they also don't understand how to use a spell checker Oct 17 18:17:57 * timeless notes that there's a spellchecker available for microb Oct 17 18:18:02 hrm Oct 17 18:18:11 has no one filed a bug complaining that notes doesn't offer a spell checker? :) Oct 17 18:18:22 * mgedmin thinks it's strange firefox's spell checker doesn't provide any suggestions Oct 17 18:18:35 eh? Oct 17 18:18:38 right click Oct 17 18:18:39 is the forum nokia support free? Oct 17 18:18:45 that's how i correct people's mistakes Oct 17 18:18:45 timeless: what does the dpad action feel like - is there a tactile click to move left/right, or is it soft-press? Oct 17 18:19:02 pupnik: eh Oct 17 18:19:06 timeless: maybe one of my ffox extensions ate them :( Oct 17 18:19:07 parse error :( Oct 17 18:19:10 This so great example of the maemo sdk people braindamage: http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/compile_move.html Oct 17 18:19:12 mgedmin: maybe Oct 17 18:19:13 timeless: yeah tell us about the new dpad. is it a trackpad? no? Oct 17 18:19:27 disq: it's like some of the newer nokia phones Oct 17 18:19:31 does it feel like 770 dpad, or like a decent dpad? Oct 17 18:19:31 timeless: when you press dpad on the 770 you feel resistance then a click. Oct 17 18:19:31 we're reusing components Oct 17 18:19:37 personally my favorite dpad is the 770 Oct 17 18:19:45 followed by the n800, and now the n810 Oct 17 18:19:55 hmm, 160 euros per case Oct 17 18:19:56 i think the e61i is the bottom of this short list Oct 17 18:20:01 instead of actually writing an app that makes transferring binaries to _EASY_, lets document this long and tedious process Oct 17 18:20:05 most other nokia dpads are even worse Oct 17 18:20:16 timeless: so, when you move your finger on the center square part, you can ie. pan a map? without pressing the side arrowkeys Oct 17 18:20:16 ok thanks - 770 is close to usable :) Oct 17 18:20:32 disq: no Oct 17 18:20:36 it's just a button Oct 17 18:20:48 fwiw, i don't use the n810 much Oct 17 18:20:51 ah Oct 17 18:20:55 i started using it jokingly last week Oct 17 18:21:01 thanks for the clarification :) Oct 17 18:21:02 i find a couple of bugs in every few minutes of use Oct 17 18:21:13 and spend time trying to find people to get info from my bugs Oct 17 18:21:18 and then i go back to browser problems Oct 17 18:21:25 like, it turns out we're really stupid Oct 17 18:21:30 and most of our strings are really bad Oct 17 18:21:42 i should update my sardine and see what's going on Oct 17 18:21:49 anyway, would a few microb users please volunteer to test something for me? Oct 17 18:22:03 sure. if it doesn't involve much typing on the vkb :P Oct 17 18:22:08 hrm Oct 17 18:22:19 can you please not use a pastebin? Oct 17 18:22:28 i don't want to be accused of leaking anything Oct 17 18:22:37 sure Oct 17 18:23:26 j'accuse! Oct 17 18:26:42 hm, if I buy a yet another internet table, the empty box won't fit on my shelf where I keep all the empty boxes Oct 17 18:26:46 beh did i miss an answer timeless? Oct 17 18:27:07 pupnik: sorry, did you volunteer? Oct 17 18:28:08 i got disconnected Oct 17 18:28:16 js bindings? Oct 17 18:28:33 mgedmin: you'll have to have a bonfire Oct 17 18:28:33 there will be no devices in the idiot stores in my town Oct 17 18:28:53 pupnik_: you should definitely get a device if they do a developer program Oct 17 18:29:29 * pupnik_ agrees :} Oct 17 18:30:14 (while "should" in the moral sense definitely applies, I meant "should" as in "are likely to") Oct 17 18:31:05 hey Oct 17 18:31:12 quick question, Oct 17 18:31:12 <_Monkey> quick question, is there a clock taskbar app for IT2006? Oct 17 18:31:37 lol Oct 17 18:31:45 _Monkey: forget quick question Oct 17 18:31:45 <_Monkey> disq, I didn't have anything matching quick question Oct 17 18:31:45 _monkey forget quick question Oct 17 18:31:46 <_Monkey> timeless, I didn't have anything matching quick question Oct 17 18:31:49 _Monkey: forget quick question, Oct 17 18:31:49 <_Monkey> disq: I forgot quick question, Oct 17 18:31:56 wow! Oct 17 18:32:20 _monkey quick question, is Oct 17 18:32:20 <_Monkey> OK, timeless. Oct 17 18:32:32 _Monkey: quick question,? Oct 17 18:32:32 <_Monkey> i don't know, disq Oct 17 18:32:38 that's so random... (and yes, i understand how it happened) Oct 17 18:32:56 _monkey literal quick quesion, Oct 17 18:32:57 <_Monkey> timeless: what? Oct 17 18:33:02 _monkey literal quick question, Oct 17 18:33:03 <_Monkey> timeless: quick question, =is= Oct 17 18:37:23 oh fsck Oct 17 18:38:27 interesting - omapdsp: frame buffer has been exported already! Oct 17 18:39:06 20:24 <@Michae1> maybe I'll buy a tub of them Oct 17 18:39:07 20:24 <@Michae1> and take internet tablet baths Oct 17 18:39:28 that's a novel use case Oct 17 18:39:48 I did that :) Oct 17 18:40:02 I have a waterproof casing for pdas, with a soft transparant front Oct 17 18:40:15 you can use the touch screen trought it :) Oct 17 18:40:44 lardman what are you doing , it sounds very interesting Oct 17 18:41:02 trying to write to the framebuffer from the dsp Oct 17 18:41:42 ssvb/serge was interested in doing full screen video in mplayer by offloading the scaling and conversion routines Oct 17 18:42:33 s/was/is Oct 17 18:42:41 silly question, when the rootstrap installation script for bora is run, is the apt-get executed within the targets already or in scratchbox using host tools? Oct 17 18:44:35 <|R> any idea how many apps will break on OS2008? :) Oct 17 18:44:45 all of them Oct 17 18:44:58 they have moved to a newer version of gtk+ iirc Oct 17 18:45:00 hopefully most of the ones i use will be updated nice and quick tho ;) Oct 17 18:45:41 adiós Oct 17 18:46:07 * Tak waiting happily for hildon-glade Oct 17 18:46:21 anyone know, off hand, where the framebuffer is exported to if CONFIG_FB_OMAP_LCDC_EXTERNAL is set...? Oct 17 18:48:10 it seems calling window.show_all() is the only way to get toolbar buttons to show with pygtk and hildon.Window of course. The toolbar itself does show in either case. Oct 17 18:48:32 Jiten_: it's a bug in bora Oct 17 18:48:39 Jiten_: fixed in chinook Oct 17 18:48:44 I see. Oct 17 18:51:23 <|R> any idea why Aplication manager would freeze when launched alone? :( Oct 17 18:51:50 what's this little corner thing? http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/10/nokia-n810-hands-on-05.jpg Oct 17 18:52:19 that's the light Oct 17 18:52:21 <|R> pupnik_ : led Oct 17 18:52:24 it's for annoying people Oct 17 18:52:27 <|R> hehe Oct 17 18:52:35 to blink for email messages when screen is dark? Oct 17 18:52:40 yes Oct 17 18:52:44 morse Oct 17 18:52:45 it's the same annoying blue as last time Oct 17 18:53:16 fwiw there's also a light indicator, i believe that's the smaller square highlighted by the light gloss in that picture Oct 17 18:53:37 it's designed to let your screen go very bright if you thumb it, i suppose ... dunno Oct 17 18:54:18 the light sensor also controls whether the keys have this nokia blue coloring bleeding through the letters Oct 17 18:54:46 |R: you check out the new releases? Oct 17 18:54:46 that picture also shows the fullscreen button Oct 17 18:54:50 i thought so. leds draw power Oct 17 18:55:00 <|R> Tak : the one on garage? Oct 17 18:55:03 what it doesn't show is that you can't really access it when the keyboard is open :) Oct 17 18:55:20 yes; in extras repo as well Oct 17 18:55:26 the zoom buttons are now thankfully no longer interrupted by the fullscreen button (back to the 770 design, yay!) Oct 17 18:55:31 where's the menu key? the left keys are escape and home? or is it home? something else? if it's fullscreen, what's the left key on the top side? Oct 17 18:55:39 menu is on the keyboard Oct 17 18:55:44 <|R> Tak: well, i did yesterday, before i fucked up big time (trashed /bin instead of ~bin !!) Oct 17 18:55:45 the menu key is protected by the tray Oct 17 18:55:53 ah, ok Oct 17 18:55:54 you wouldn't want to use the menu key, would you? :( Oct 17 18:55:54 lol - doh! Oct 17 18:56:09 everything seem ok up until that point? Oct 17 18:56:22 fwiw, there's now a hardware keylock/unlock feature Oct 17 18:56:25 it might work Oct 17 18:56:26 now that the dpad is out of the picture (heh) we need to code some pulldown-like menus for kagu Oct 17 18:56:27 <|R> Tak : now i'm reinstalling and it seems weird, it seems i'm using more space than before with basically not everything reinstalled yet and application manager won't launch... Oct 17 18:56:27 20% brighter screen is going to be crazy bright Oct 17 18:56:32 can't go on with dpad shortcuts Oct 17 18:56:35 its brighter :o Oct 17 18:56:41 pupnik: i can't speak to the brighter part Oct 17 18:56:42 <|R> Tak : well yes, except all the but (beside top left) were reverted Oct 17 18:56:45 pupnik_: think you'll be tempted to splash out? Oct 17 18:56:54 what?! Oct 17 18:56:54 we're in helsinki, and i haven't been able to take the device into the sun until today Oct 17 18:57:03 and i won't be able to until there's sun, say maybe may? Oct 17 18:57:09 with the released -bora4? Oct 17 18:57:11 unless i fly to california... Oct 17 18:57:17 <|R> let me try my my "fresh" install... Oct 17 18:57:17 timeless: :) Oct 17 18:57:19 heh Oct 17 18:57:35 lardman: ... Oct 17 18:57:48 * Tak stab Xsp so viciously Oct 17 18:57:59 fwiw, i don't particularly like the home/escape buttons Oct 17 18:58:14 i think they're now much harder to use Oct 17 18:58:26 of note, the home button now only triggers the thumb menu Oct 17 18:58:32 instead of whichever menu you last triggered Oct 17 18:58:40 <|R> Tak: ah ok, the more space usage problem is the restoration of nokia's video and such... Oct 17 18:59:38 <|R> Tak: nop, still reverted buttons Oct 17 18:59:43 timeless: is the powervr used now? Oct 17 18:59:52 engadget sure is worth sending an early unit to, for the sweet pix alone Oct 17 18:59:58 um, if that's a hardware thing, i wouldn't know Oct 17 19:00:06 ok Oct 17 19:00:15 * Tak sighs Oct 17 19:00:19 in which case, is the alpha blending good? Oct 17 19:00:27 * timeless sighs Oct 17 19:00:31 :D Oct 17 19:00:33 i need to file a bug about the browser art Oct 17 19:00:41 the icon we have for the browser app in the menu is wrong Oct 17 19:00:56 they switched art styles for the icons and didn't refresh the browser one Oct 17 19:01:06 * |R brb Oct 17 19:04:43 ok, so, i'm looking for a second person to express an opinion on a web page (w/ microb) Oct 17 19:06:03 I can do it Oct 17 19:07:02 disq: can you repeat the things i asked you to look at for tpc? Oct 17 19:07:07 oops, wrong window Oct 17 19:11:07 is python included in 2008? Oct 17 19:11:18 <|R> we need a dpkg -l ;) Oct 17 19:16:29 heh Oct 17 19:16:39 If i read it correctly we might have the software on the n800 before the n810 hits the market Oct 17 19:20:19 hmm. is there any particular reason why within targets the PATH is by default setup so that /usr/local/bin is after all the system paths? Oct 17 19:20:29 * czr curses silently Oct 17 19:24:02 ah. sbox breaks down LD_PRELOAD stuff as well. Oct 17 19:25:35 czr: us SBOX_PRELOAD to ld_preload target binareis Oct 17 19:26:22 suihkulokki, yeah, except that I'd have to rebuild the software since it does the LD_PRELOADing for me. I'll just ignore it Oct 17 19:27:33 suihkulokki, trying to setup a virtual machine image suitable for SDK experementation, and attempted to setup zerotools ( http://koltsoff.com/pub/zerotools/ ) within both targets so that the virtual machine image would remain "clean" Oct 17 19:27:47 but, I guess I'll just let it bloat then. Oct 17 19:34:25 * zeenix wonders why the channel is not filled with N810 talk :) Oct 17 19:34:33 s/filled/flooded/ Oct 17 19:34:41 because it's a wimpy update Oct 17 19:34:56 alterego: is there a deb repo for ruby-maemo? Oct 17 19:35:14 zeenix: it was, for a while Oct 17 19:35:20 because most of us probably already have a n800 Oct 17 19:35:47 snowmoon: you can't please everyone, either people will complain about update wimpyness, or other people will complain that their brand new n800 became obsolete overnight Oct 17 19:35:52 (or both) Oct 17 19:36:11 I'll probably skip this one, maybe go for the n900 when it's there :) Oct 17 19:36:17 Tak, not yet. There will be soon :) Oct 17 19:36:25 I'm not sure how they can complain. Apart from the keyboard and gps the N800 is more capable :) Oct 17 19:36:32 unless they finally activated powervr and it has great 3d support, then I might consider buying one, but I doubht it Oct 17 19:36:36 * Tak nods Oct 17 19:36:39 I'm just hoping that the 810 will drive down the prices on the 800 so that I can justify it as a toy Oct 17 19:36:43 Especially since OS2008 is going to be released very soon Oct 17 19:36:55 wumpus: if they did that, it ought to hold true for the n800 too Oct 17 19:37:09 looks nice Oct 17 19:37:12 I don't think they've activated the powervr. A dev on another blog said the transparancy was cpu based Oct 17 19:37:20 ah, shame Oct 17 19:37:30 wumpus: no changes on this fron, but be patient Oct 17 19:37:35 *front Oct 17 19:37:44 ah, sounds interesting Oct 17 19:38:06 there are very complex issues involved, if it was simple, we would have done it Oct 17 19:38:26 MDK: like negotiating prices? Oct 17 19:38:28 genuine technical issues or license stuff? Oct 17 19:38:29 complex as in "not technically related" Oct 17 19:38:31 but are we 770 user 100% screwed now? Oct 17 19:38:46 don't ask me, I can't talk (I wish I could) Oct 17 19:38:57 well, if it was technical I'd gladly help :p Oct 17 19:39:08 MDK interesting none the less, thanks for the hints Oct 17 19:39:22 I don't see why Nokia would not release new hardware for N800 as fast as they release phones: everyone knows product are replaced every 6 monthes by something better Oct 17 19:39:37 onion, depends what you mean. The platform is so open I'm sure developers could, on their own, compile root filesystem images from the latest releases. Though I imagine that OS2008 which uses main stream Gtk etc will be very slow on a 770 Oct 17 19:39:55 buying one of these gadget and complaining that something better is out after a few monthes is not logical Oct 17 19:39:57 is H.264 supported on the n800? Oct 17 19:40:17 alterego: the "mainstream gtk" is not slower in OS2008 Oct 17 19:40:21 guerby: because a stable platform is good for software development, especially if you rely on open source Oct 17 19:40:21 lardman, will be with OS2008 I believe, not sure if it is now. Should say in the spec docs. Oct 17 19:40:28 (than it was in OS2007) Oct 17 19:40:30 MDK, it will be on the 770 Oct 17 19:40:36 alterego: developing... I can't afford to get every model that comes out Oct 17 19:40:46 alterego: I was just thinking that the IVA is supposed to decode that Oct 17 19:40:53 The issue here is not with the N800 it's continued OS images for the 770. Oct 17 19:41:13 wumpus, software has to adapt to platform change continuously (especially in the UI world) Oct 17 19:41:17 people writing OS won't buy a new device every few months, so might get tired of it.. of course, they can release incrementally better devices (like the N810 seems to be) Oct 17 19:41:19 The N800 will be supported until OS2009 I believe. Oct 17 19:41:46 but breaking compatibility again this soon would be a bad idea Oct 17 19:41:51 alterego: great Oct 17 19:41:51 guys, remember there is a developer program (or is going to be soon) Oct 17 19:42:16 MDK, you really think they'll have on for the N810? I'm personally not so sure about that .. ;) Oct 17 19:42:19 so you can get discounted device if you have a nice maemo development history Oct 17 19:42:23 wumpus, it looks like N810 will not break compat, but I've no problem if they do break Oct 17 19:42:23 I'm with onion - I'd like to see OS2008HE Oct 17 19:42:26 alterego: the maemo announcement says there will be. Oct 17 19:42:32 Oh, that's great. Oct 17 19:42:34 alterego: yes, there will be one for n810 Oct 17 19:42:35 * alterego will apply :) Oct 17 19:42:56 guerby: I would, I can't be bothered buying a new device every year.. I don't do that for phones either Oct 17 19:43:04 I wonder if ruby-maemo will give me enough credits to be accepted into the program ^_^ Oct 17 19:43:26 alterego: ah, you're the guy doing the ruby stuff? Oct 17 19:43:27 wumpus, yes but in what a new device bother you then? Oct 17 19:43:30 and phones have JME applets anyway which have been working for a long time Oct 17 19:43:32 MDK, indeed :) Oct 17 19:43:50 what is the cause of the n800's video bandwidth issue? the lcd controller? Oct 17 19:43:55 guerby: incompatibility, old versus new developers, etc Oct 17 19:44:01 alterego: ah, I'll test it soon Oct 17 19:44:03 wumpus, did you complain when new phone model came out? Oct 17 19:44:10 alterego: now you see why I asked about chinook support ;) Oct 17 19:44:17 MDK, best wait till the major release. It's only a few days away :) Oct 17 19:44:25 guerby: phones run java, which remains compatible usually Oct 17 19:44:46 wumpus: the abi break know is to get rid of the forked gtk.. now that it's "mainstream gtk", it shouldn't break Oct 17 19:44:48 Well, there we have it. My 770 is officially obsolete. Oct 17 19:44:57 MDK, I've been planning ahead on this project the whole way. After I get 1.0 out I'm going to start working on Ruby1.9/2.0 for the device, ready for when Ruby is released at the end of this year. Oct 17 19:45:04 pauliukas: yeah, welcome to the club... Oct 17 19:45:05 "shouldn't" Oct 17 19:45:17 you mean, until the next time gtk breaks its abis :) Oct 17 19:45:21 onion: Thanks for the welcome. Oct 17 19:45:41 timeless: gtk2 in mainstream distro's has not changed soname.. Oct 17 19:45:45 Why do you think it's obsolete? Oct 17 19:45:50 you can always make a small gtk-program to turn the 770 into a wireless picture frame ;-) Oct 17 19:45:56 The 770 still has oodles of potential :) Oct 17 19:45:59 suihkulokki: yes, there will be less reason why an OS might not work on the n880, unless maemo pulls a vista/aero kind of thing, but that'd drain battery like hell Oct 17 19:46:00 timeless: gtk hasn't broken API compatibility since years Oct 17 19:46:16 ..ofcourse, the chinook gtk is still patched and has dozens of unstable #MAEMO_CHANGES things Oct 17 19:46:24 we broke it, because we fucked up the whole thing right from start ;) Oct 17 19:46:28 by forking our stuff Oct 17 19:46:31 Hah Oct 17 19:46:34 pauliukas: wasn't it officially obsolete back when the n800 first came out? Oct 17 19:46:35 can someone link me to the page that has the package url's for gaim on the nokia 770 Oct 17 19:46:40 so we needed this disruption to get back on sanity track Oct 17 19:46:44 you should get spanked for that ;) Oct 17 19:46:47 yes, it's bad that we broke it Oct 17 19:46:50 mgedmin: To me, the 800 wasn't a huge improvement. Oct 17 19:46:53 I don't see how n810 changes things for 770 owners Oct 17 19:47:01 but we broke it for a reason not to break it in future Oct 17 19:47:02 tpc: dunno Oct 17 19:47:09 timeless, wrong channel Oct 17 19:47:16 I happen to own an N800 and a 770. To me the N800 is a vast improvement .. Oct 17 19:47:41 MDK: some "minor" things like TAP-AND-HOLD menu might still break if/when upstream chooses another approach Oct 17 19:48:02 Upstream has already chosen an approach. Oct 17 19:48:12 heh, I prefer the 770 Oct 17 19:48:34 770 was just too slow for me to take seriously Oct 17 19:48:34 * alterego gets back to work. Oct 17 19:48:38 suihkulokki: we're ina very close contact with upstram Oct 17 19:48:40 I played with it for a while Oct 17 19:48:41 anyone? Oct 17 19:49:01 also, guys, be reasonable Oct 17 19:49:09 Hah Oct 17 19:49:13 err, don't ask linux users to be reasonable Oct 17 19:49:17 :) Oct 17 19:49:26 seriously, n800 owners (one year old hw) get now full software upgrade Oct 17 19:49:38 with new shit, one year worth of bugfixing etc. Oct 17 19:49:39 yeah, the 770 was a bit too slow, which is why I didn't buy it when it came out Oct 17 19:49:53 I'm not saying we're perfect Oct 17 19:49:57 lodxcol: have you tried the maemo package list thingy? Oct 17 19:49:58 lodxcol, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationCatalog Oct 17 19:50:03 MDK: I'm not complaining Oct 17 19:50:04 that's the one Oct 17 19:50:05 but we're getting better and we learn the lessons ;) Oct 17 19:50:07 Bug fixing and _features_. Not to mention the new API's are a lot nicer. Oct 17 19:50:08 I love the N800 Oct 17 19:50:27 there's always stuff that can be done better but the project is coming along well Oct 17 19:50:29 also, I should note that that OS2008 has been FULLY tested on n800 Oct 17 19:50:32 who is, MDK, I think the N series has a lot of potential... I was just hoping for more with the 810 Oct 17 19:50:41 so it's not something like -- we just release it for n800 Oct 17 19:50:42 also a lot of apps available Oct 17 19:50:56 it has been developed and tested all the time on n800 Oct 17 19:51:04 and quite a good package system Oct 17 19:51:23 * flip^ glances in and wonders if MDK works for nokia or something Oct 17 19:51:41 the gecko based browser is a big step... lots of built in upgrades right there... google docs should work Oct 17 19:51:55 I still want libxul!!!! Oct 17 19:52:01 I wish maemo cloned the Ubuntu approach (single shared repository, source-only uploads, build daemons for many architectures, volunteer maintainers that can fix any package) Oct 17 19:52:03 yup! i see a big positive diff when i compare the new software with the last released Oct 17 19:52:03 opera will be ditched? Oct 17 19:52:10 * snowmoon ponders... google gears for OS2008 Oct 17 19:52:13 flip^: he does :) Oct 17 19:52:15 I don't know if I'm really that happy about that Oct 17 19:52:16 wumpus: it's ditched Oct 17 19:52:34 fwiw, someone did google gears for microb Oct 17 19:52:35 mgedmin, ubuntu don't make hardware. Oct 17 19:52:40 they were supposed to write an announcement somewhere Oct 17 19:52:45 flip^: but i don't, i swear :) Oct 17 19:52:46 alterego: maemo.org doesn't either ;-) Oct 17 19:52:49 at least on my old P550 machine, opera is a lot more responsive and uses less memory than firefox Oct 17 19:52:54 i don't know what happened to it Oct 17 19:53:01 * flip^ raises an eyebrow at zeenix Oct 17 19:53:01 with gears it would be dirt simple to sync google to OS2008 and be on the go for a while without WiFi Oct 17 19:53:09 but I can see why gecko is preferable Oct 17 19:53:37 is google gears open-source? Oct 17 19:53:41 if so, it can be ported Oct 17 19:53:48 iirc microb supports extensions Oct 17 19:53:50 evening guys! Oct 17 19:53:57 it does Oct 17 19:53:59 * konttori starts to read the backlog Oct 17 19:54:02 as i said, someone did a google gears port Oct 17 19:54:12 they were supposed to write an announcement, i don't know what happened to it Oct 17 19:54:19 http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/ Oct 17 19:54:40 oh, right, I missed that Oct 17 19:54:47 too much traffic here Oct 17 19:55:00 it could be worse, i have 3 other heres here Oct 17 19:57:45 dunno, trying to push the google search button down i guess? Oct 17 19:57:49 arg Oct 17 19:58:03 gah. i need to consider a graphical irc client Oct 17 19:59:17 * alterego recommends XChat :) Oct 17 19:59:28 timeless: thanks for the greasemonkey. So, now I could for example without much trouble write a script that will open youtube clips directly in uktube or even in mplayer. Oct 17 19:59:55 officially i wasn't involved Oct 17 20:00:10 but i'm glad you liked the link Oct 17 20:00:36 * Tak recommend XChat Oct 17 20:00:59 hey, will someone please port xchat for chinook now. Oct 17 20:01:18 Heh Oct 17 20:01:20 as you guys can see, messaging apps will suddendly make much more sense than before Oct 17 20:01:32 is the maemo mappper developer around? Oct 17 20:01:32 konttori, that's a good point ;) Oct 17 20:01:34 I think pidgin is being worked on Oct 17 20:01:44 gnuite? Oct 17 20:01:45 Hello. Oct 17 20:01:48 we need to port maemo mapper Oct 17 20:01:48 pidgin is awesome .. Oct 17 20:01:48 hi roope Oct 17 20:01:53 * roope ears are still ringing from Muse. Oct 17 20:02:15 so, when do we get modest as the default mail client :P Oct 17 20:02:19 what is the status of os2008 for n800? ready or not? Oct 17 20:02:28 muse? Oct 17 20:02:28 can anyone help me with running a shell script from the n800 menu? Oct 17 20:02:35 Muse, the band. Oct 17 20:02:52 Lariso easiest way is to install load-applet-run or osso-statusbar-cpu to run shell scripts Oct 17 20:03:06 konttori: how's kagu behaving on chinook? :P Oct 17 20:03:13 didn't try Oct 17 20:03:20 i'll try that. i'm using 2007 HE Oct 17 20:03:24 I did port (well.. port ;) ukmp to it Oct 17 20:03:26 but you tried ukmp didn't you :P Oct 17 20:03:30 yeah Oct 17 20:03:33 ^^should have typed n700 up there Oct 17 20:03:33 I guess I should build this application I'm writing right now with an eye on OS2008. Oct 17 20:03:36 *770 Oct 17 20:03:36 works just fine. Oct 17 20:03:38 is that a flash above the n810 camera? Oct 17 20:03:41 * Jiten_ goes looking for documents on the differences. Oct 17 20:03:44 Only had to change gstreamer init Oct 17 20:03:56 that's the beauty of python. Oct 17 20:04:34 bmidgley: light sensor ( according to talk ) Oct 17 20:05:24 ok Oct 17 20:05:53 what about zoom buttons? are they n800 style or the nicer 770 style? Oct 17 20:05:58 disq: I'll try kagu for you tomorrow Oct 17 20:06:05 zoom nbuttons are 770 style Oct 17 20:06:09 We are still not allowed to take protos home Oct 17 20:06:12 but unsable w/ keyboard open Oct 17 20:06:17 konttori: really? Oct 17 20:06:21 or are we... maybe we are.. anyway, I don't have it. Oct 17 20:06:27 someone said once the real things are known that we should be Oct 17 20:06:33 note: i'm not yet, i don't see the point Oct 17 20:06:44 i.e. the announcement was today Oct 17 20:06:50 and the hardware is clearly in the wild Oct 17 20:07:01 Yeah, so we should be able to use it in public now Oct 17 20:07:26 what? Oct 17 20:07:31 You had that all the time long? Oct 17 20:07:47 had wha? Oct 17 20:07:48 anyway, I'll take it home tomorrow, but I'll try to test kagu at the office. Oct 17 20:07:56 "konttori Oct 17 20:07:56 : Oct 17 20:07:56 Yeah, so we should be able to use it in public now" Oct 17 20:07:57 konttori: thank you :) Oct 17 20:08:00 Who's this "we" Oct 17 20:08:05 nokians Oct 17 20:08:08 we've had protos for months Oct 17 20:08:12 do i have to reboot after installing osso-statusbar-cpu or will it not run on 2007 HE Oct 17 20:08:19 yeah, well, I work for nokia now as well. Started 1,5 months ago. Oct 17 20:08:20 motherfu... Oct 17 20:08:42 but you can't talk about products until they're announced Oct 17 20:08:51 so you wouldn't hear anyone talk about them until today Oct 17 20:08:51 oh come on. Oct 17 20:09:00 You can make loads of money. Oct 17 20:09:02 nokiarumors.com Oct 17 20:09:05 or something like that. Oct 17 20:09:06 you can always wait for some unrelated press-releases to leak out the info though :-) Oct 17 20:09:11 9to5nokia.com :-P Oct 17 20:09:14 we have been relly busy working to get the thing polished for the past weeks, so I haven't had the time to try out any 3rd party stuff on it. otherwise I would have tested kagu already Oct 17 20:09:16 czr: yeah well Oct 17 20:09:23 that means we can talk a day earlier Oct 17 20:09:28 not very helpful, and not like we care Oct 17 20:09:34 * czr nods Oct 17 20:09:34 i'm not really interested in the n810 Oct 17 20:09:42 BS! Oct 17 20:09:47 as a browser dev, i really don't care about the n810 Oct 17 20:09:49 * alterego imagines that the N820 will be identical to the N810 + a GPRS/GSM modem ^_^ Oct 17 20:10:01 especially given we aren't even taking advantage of its internal mmc for caching Oct 17 20:10:16 which is a bug i intend to file and possibly fix before we ship the n810s :) Oct 17 20:10:33 browser dev? Oct 17 20:10:38 I can say that I think it's really a wonderful device. Keyboard extends the usefulness of the device so much that I can really see myself using it to just about anything now. Oct 17 20:10:38 timeless, good luck getting that through the test cycle though ;-) Oct 17 20:10:38 Isn't Opera doing the browser? Oct 17 20:10:44 no Oct 17 20:10:52 not any more ;) Oct 17 20:10:53 And while we're at it, how come the browser crashes a lot on the 770. Oct 17 20:10:57 Really? Since when? Oct 17 20:11:01 timeless: why don't you cache there? Oct 17 20:11:01 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/index.xml Oct 17 20:11:04 mgedmin: gears is BSD licensed Oct 17 20:11:04 konttori, they keyboard is useful for real writing? or just IM? Oct 17 20:11:10 konttori: because we're idiots Oct 17 20:11:20 timeless: it' Oct 17 20:11:21 as i said, i'll try to fix it before the n810s ship Oct 17 20:11:30 keesj: i'm speaking as browser architect Oct 17 20:11:33 timeless: it's great that microb made it Oct 17 20:11:38 there are a lot of stupid things we're not doing right Oct 17 20:11:41 that's only one of htem Oct 17 20:11:42 what the fu... Oct 17 20:11:45 kb is usefull for even real writing. But it's thumb, so writing is not so fast as on a real kb. But still, quite fast Oct 17 20:11:49 why wasn't I told about this before. Oct 17 20:11:56 konttori, nice to hear. Oct 17 20:12:06 pauliukas: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/5/ Oct 17 20:12:10 specifically for meet the team Oct 17 20:12:18 timeless, get them to stick libxul in the rootfs for me :) Oct 17 20:12:18 lack of keyb was the only thing that kept me from using the previous ITs for anything. Oct 17 20:12:24 and since i guess someone announced it, the itos 2008 will not include opera Oct 17 20:12:25 only microb Oct 17 20:12:32 geez. this is crazy. Oct 17 20:12:37 And microb is usable on OS2006? Oct 17 20:12:41 alterego: believe me i want to Oct 17 20:12:47 :) Oct 17 20:12:50 pauliukas: yes, has been since i dunno, a while ago Oct 17 20:12:59 Any chance? I tried compiling it myself but it didn't work out so well ^_^ Oct 17 20:13:01 wow... Oct 17 20:13:03 downloading it now. Oct 17 20:13:07 good work on getting the browser stable in the past two weeks. It's really working now. Oct 17 20:13:11 Hope it doesn't crash as much as opera does. Oct 17 20:13:18 alterego: it works Oct 17 20:13:18 timeless, it'd show those iPhone weiners a thing or two ;) Oct 17 20:13:37 Sweet. Oct 17 20:13:37 setup a scratchbox and pull from garage.maemo.org/svn/browser Oct 17 20:13:49 timeless, you're a star, thanks so much :) Oct 17 20:13:49 just don't include --disable-xul Oct 17 20:14:04 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/ Oct 17 20:14:07 If I'd known it was _that_ easy ^_^ Oct 17 20:14:09 if you want to browse sources Oct 17 20:14:23 that's slightly out of date as i don't updae daily Oct 17 20:14:33 my 't' key doesn't work well, i think it's dying from overuse Oct 17 20:14:33 Well, I'm stuck working on ruby-maemo right now. I'll bookmark and look into it later. :) Oct 17 20:14:52 fwiw, i got someone to write a howto for writing microb extensions Oct 17 20:14:57 i expect it to be posted later this week Oct 17 20:15:36 Great. Oct 17 20:17:25 my osso-statusbar-cpu doesn't appear in the status bar even though i enabled it :( Oct 17 20:17:41 might be a problem with os2007he, sorry Lariso Oct 17 20:18:24 i don't mind editing the menu files to make my own shortcuts but .. well, they don't work Oct 17 20:18:43 it's just a little script to start a vpn up. Oct 17 20:18:44 damn Oct 17 20:18:47 Not enough memory... Oct 17 20:18:51 I wonder how much it needs. Oct 17 20:19:08 lariso: the vpnc hing doesn't work for you? Oct 17 20:19:22 hmm. would be completely impossible to get a periodic ntp sync from dhcp provided ntp-server list? Oct 17 20:19:48 * czr gets annoyed by clocks that differ too easily Oct 17 20:19:55 vpnc eh Oct 17 20:20:03 To the "Nokians" in the channel... How about N8xx fused with the GP2X for the next model?! Oct 17 20:20:05 *reading* Oct 17 20:20:14 please put that in the suggestion box ;) Oct 17 20:23:41 770: MMC, 800: SD: 810: mini/microSD?? Oct 17 20:25:01 vre: yes Oct 17 20:25:07 nokia = consistency Oct 17 20:25:13 uhhh Oct 17 20:25:18 well, 800: mmc/sd/variants Oct 17 20:25:20 I installed it but I don't see it anywhere. Oct 17 20:25:25 Does it need a restart or something Oct 17 20:25:44 also note tha the hardware layout for zoom/fullscreen/home/keys has consistently changed for each product Oct 17 20:25:46 does vpnc work with ssh Oct 17 20:25:49 Nice, I can use old MMC (which was burned by kernel-bug) in the new one.. not the nice 4GB SD from n800.. Oct 17 20:25:51 the art work for each button has also changed Oct 17 20:26:13 vre: you can install os 2008 on your n800 before you can buy an n810 Oct 17 20:26:19 anybody know how to monitor a file in sysfs? Oct 17 20:26:21 Yeap :) Oct 17 20:26:31 timeless: I suppose it's still a bit of an experimental project Oct 17 20:26:50 VRe: I was thinking dumping the 800 to gf and getting myself the new toy Oct 17 20:27:04 Oh... it replaces Opera? Oct 17 20:27:08 Damn. Got an error Oct 17 20:27:10 wumpus: just a bit? Oct 17 20:27:15 the n800 had a radio oto Oct 17 20:27:27 radio is gone? Oct 17 20:27:28 * timeless insults vre's irc client Oct 17 20:27:37 pauliukas: yes, opera's gone Oct 17 20:27:48 that's not good. Oct 17 20:27:51 I'm getting errors. Oct 17 20:28:00 vre: radio was traded for gps Oct 17 20:28:19 VRe: no you can't use an rs-mmc card in a mini-sd slot Oct 17 20:28:23 (not seriously, but if you want to look a it some way) Oct 17 20:28:24 could you record off radio? Oct 17 20:28:26 ... or can you? Oct 17 20:28:29 I'd be surprised Oct 17 20:28:37 Might not work Oct 17 20:28:45 timeless: irssi? Something wrong? Oct 17 20:28:47 does n800 os2008's map application support bluetooth gps receiver? Oct 17 20:28:49 disq, depends on the file in question really. some support dnotify(), most don't Oct 17 20:29:03 Sorry. Too lazy to actually write down the error Oct 17 20:29:05 http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8871/photo82bl1.jpg Oct 17 20:29:07 disq, i.e., depends on whether the driver producing the file actually signals the kernel with changes or not. Oct 17 20:29:12 VRe: I was thinking dumping the 800 to gf and getting myself the Oct 17 20:29:17 i think so. dnotify. i'll look that up thanks Oct 17 20:29:31 disq, might be inotify too. I always confuse the two :-) Oct 17 20:29:35 Is that something known or do I now officially need to nuke and pave? Oct 17 20:29:39 one is older syscall, one is pretty new Oct 17 20:29:39 file; ? Oct 17 20:29:44 yes it's inotify Oct 17 20:30:02 timeless: probably some wtf8 crap cut the sentence down Oct 17 20:30:15 vre: file: should always work Oct 17 20:30:30 disq, what are you trying to monitor? Oct 17 20:31:01 disq: so um... what's my status, do i take what i have or should i try to do something else? Oct 17 20:31:03 headphone jack Oct 17 20:31:03 <_Monkey> headphone jack is 4 pins actually, one of them is mic. Oct 17 20:31:07 bump the font size? Oct 17 20:31:12 _Monkey: ooh really? Oct 17 20:31:12 _monkey forget headphone jack Oct 17 20:31:13 <_Monkey> disq: bugger all, i dunno Oct 17 20:31:13 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot headphone jack Oct 17 20:31:19 _monkey headphone jack is Oct 17 20:31:19 <_Monkey> OK, timeless. Oct 17 20:31:45 disq, ah, don't know whether it's notified properly. drop me a note if it is. Oct 17 20:31:47 timeless: your status on what? no activity in our secret channel Oct 17 20:32:26 Ok: wishlist for the next device: motions sensors ala wiimote, lightsensor(there is one?), radio, _good_ gps, normal SD slot (for that cheap and available memory), screen that is readable atleast in partial sunlite.. Oct 17 20:33:13 one month battery life without recharging... Oct 17 20:33:17 But I think the design-guru & hw-team has already cooked up the next device.. Oct 17 20:33:20 built-in coffee machine... Oct 17 20:33:30 mgedmin: sounds like emacs Oct 17 20:33:46 in practice it seems the hardware designers design 2-5 devices in the future, refusing to ever talk to anyone to get feedback Oct 17 20:33:49 I wouldn't know, I use vim :-) Oct 17 20:33:54 so with a menu shell script: i write a shell script, that runs fine from command line with "sh /root/vpn.sh" Oct 17 20:34:06 what do i put as command in .desktop file to run this? Oct 17 20:34:21 timeless: I have noticed that before too.. that ought to be changed Oct 17 20:34:45 there are lots of things that should be changed Oct 17 20:35:24 vre: i think you'll find just about everything i'm describing is much less than ideal Oct 17 20:35:30 we'll that is just a sign that there is more paychecks coming down in the future.. =) Oct 17 20:35:46 heh, you're a glass is half full guy Oct 17 20:36:03 oh ffs Oct 17 20:36:11 i just noticed the top of my script.. #!/bin/bash Oct 17 20:36:24 oh, that'll work well on our devices :) Oct 17 20:36:47 Alright guys. Oct 17 20:36:58 timeless: I think the software will start to rock sooner than later - now the same teachings should be applied to other areas aswell Oct 17 20:37:00 How can I install OS 2007/8/whatever hacker/cracker edition? Oct 17 20:37:43 the sofware processes still need a lot of work, but yes, we'd love to see useful innovation wrt hardware design Oct 17 20:38:15 google results for os2007he don't seem to point to the official page Oct 17 20:38:43 I was thinking that the 3rd device could be worth actually buying when I saw 770 - got that more or less right. 3rd gen is usually where the device starts to be stable enough for massmarket Oct 17 20:38:45 * mgedmin is waiting for a science-fictiony hard resizable screens Oct 17 20:39:07 anybody using xchat plugins on the device? Oct 17 20:39:51 ok even with #!/bin/bash fixed the ui does nothing when i click Oct 17 20:40:15 i assume i'm able to just run a shell script as a command just like a compiled app would Oct 17 20:40:21 btw, is the date/time dialog/elements as hard to use still with the new maemo as with old (just check gpe..) Oct 17 20:40:25 Lariso, you launching it with just the script name or with multiple parts with spaces in between? Oct 17 20:40:33 just the script name Oct 17 20:40:34 at least back in 770 days, the desktop file didn't support spaces Oct 17 20:40:38 hmm Oct 17 20:40:40 no sh in front of it? Oct 17 20:40:45 ah, plugin support is disabled :-( Oct 17 20:40:46 no Oct 17 20:40:47 Lariso: is the .sh file executable? Oct 17 20:41:01 Exec=/usr/local/bin/vpn3.sh Oct 17 20:41:07 and yeah, 755 i think Oct 17 20:41:40 hmm. add some echos into some file in /tmp/ to see whether the script is run at all Oct 17 20:41:44 czr: and everything had to be installed under some obscure subdirectory.. Oct 17 20:42:05 VRe, /var/install infact. was trying to find out the proper new directory to install just today ;-) Oct 17 20:42:35 kind of funny how none of the maemo.org docs actually mentions anything about the proper directiories to install into now. Oct 17 20:42:46 czr: you have been away long.. Oct 17 20:43:04 VRe, yes. I tried to get out, and each time they keep on pulling me back in. Oct 17 20:43:21 czr: it's debian defaults.. ./configure --prefix=/usr Oct 17 20:43:28 VRe, well. I know now. Oct 17 20:44:02 does a service need to be restarted whenever i change a desktop file or will it take effect immediately Oct 17 20:44:05 hmm, maybe i should just regard my wsod 770 as a expensive paper weight and look for a price drop on the N800 now that the N810 is out? Oct 17 20:44:29 The new menu seems to be quite big by looking the pics, I hope it'll handle nice those 40 programs I have installed so I don't need to scroll around Oct 17 20:44:32 btw, any nokians want to hint what should I call the application installer component in bora? Application Installer, Application Manager, or Application manager? the docs are contradictory Oct 17 20:44:35 the n810 won't be sold before november, but otoh there already was a n800 price drop Oct 17 20:44:44 eh? Oct 17 20:44:49 Application manager Oct 17 20:44:50 <_Monkey> well, Application manager is maemo's GUI over apt Oct 17 20:45:03 but what do you mean call? Oct 17 20:45:09 refer to. in text. Oct 17 20:45:26 exactly as i wrote Oct 17 20:45:29 note the lowercase m Oct 17 20:45:36 I did note :-) Oct 17 20:45:37 well i have yet to see the local web shops that carry the N800 display any kind of price drop... Oct 17 20:45:38 thanks Oct 17 20:45:41 and i blame roope and the rest of Nokia style for the insane spelling/case Oct 17 20:45:48 * timeless washes hands Oct 17 20:45:54 timeless, there are still some docs which use Application Installer too. Oct 17 20:45:59 3.2 ones. Oct 17 20:46:01 czr: file bugs Oct 17 20:46:17 (seriously) Oct 17 20:46:24 i mean, there's no harm Oct 17 20:46:33 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400000 Oct 17 20:46:36 * timeless filed that one Oct 17 20:46:37 I'm collecting a list of stuff in the various docs and will submit that.. via.. other channels. detest using bugzilla for each small bug Oct 17 20:46:41 sure it's a dupe, not my fault, that's life Oct 17 20:47:16 nice number :-) Oct 17 20:47:22 thanks :) Oct 17 20:47:25 ooh it is running the script Oct 17 20:47:46 i was supposed to be 399998, i messed up the math and the bug i wanted was 400002 :( Oct 17 20:47:48 "/tmp/foobar" exists Oct 17 20:47:52 "The same way it works in 2007, it integrates with the system /usr/bin/browser, you can still switch back to Opera (8.0 in the case of 2006, instead of 8.5 on 2007) at any time." How? Oct 17 20:48:08 timeless, 400k is so much more.. convenient to remember :-) Oct 17 20:48:15 pauliukas: when it works, there's a set engine menu Oct 17 20:48:24 when it doesn't work, you can edit ~/.browser and fix hidden=1 Oct 17 20:48:31 and then run the browser to see the menu Oct 17 20:48:35 See, that's the problem it doesn't Oct 17 20:48:37 (won't do anything useful if you use os2008) Oct 17 20:48:40 And I uninstalled it. Oct 17 20:48:50 quit the browser Oct 17 20:48:55 okay. Oct 17 20:49:00 pull out sed/perl, fix ~/.browser to have hidden=1 Oct 17 20:49:07 install microb again Oct 17 20:49:18 the logic behind that magic is beyond me Oct 17 20:49:18 * czr wishes bugs like this would exist: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2114 Oct 17 20:49:25 But it will probably give me the same error. Oct 17 20:49:25 wouldn't even. Oct 17 20:49:29 http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8871/photo82bl1.jpg Oct 17 20:50:06 it works!! :D Oct 17 20:50:12 Lariso, yay Oct 17 20:50:18 pauliukas: load "about:" Oct 17 20:50:21 what does it say? Oct 17 20:50:30 i think it needed to run itself as root Oct 17 20:50:31 Two seconds. Reinstalling it right now as you recommended. Oct 17 20:51:10 so now i can browse my upnp server from remote vpn Oct 17 20:52:07 now if i could only get my video transcoder working properly.. Oct 17 20:53:56 czr: post a patch? Oct 17 20:54:13 you serious? :-) Oct 17 20:54:26 it's a 3 character fix :-) Oct 17 20:54:45 czr: typos happen Oct 17 20:55:00 patches are unambiguous Oct 17 20:55:08 well, it's not going to be fixed for chinook Oct 17 20:55:12 that much I know Oct 17 20:55:16 czr, it will probably take you more text to describe the change than the patch will take. Oct 17 20:55:16 plus, people should learn o query for patches Oct 17 20:55:30 * czr sighs Oct 17 20:55:31 (and to post them) Oct 17 20:55:54 * sp3000 filed and patched that already Oct 17 20:55:58 heh Oct 17 20:56:02 hi sp3000 Oct 17 20:56:07 czr, what's it about, AppLiCation ManAger naming? Oct 17 20:56:18 m-vo, run-standalone.sh bug Oct 17 20:56:55 Oh, right, I just looked at it. The mere existence of run-standalone.sh is a bug. Oct 17 20:57:31 one could extend that thought to cover a lot of other stuff as well.. Oct 17 20:57:38 timeless: The error is looping non-stop. Oct 17 20:57:44 No way to enter in aboit: Oct 17 20:57:45 *about Oct 17 20:57:54 pauliukas: kill -9 browser Oct 17 20:57:57 open a terminal Oct 17 20:58:04 /usr/bin/browser --url=about: Oct 17 20:58:07 let me SSH in. Oct 17 20:58:08 2 sec. Oct 17 20:58:10 /usr/bin/browser --url=about: --engine=microb Oct 17 20:58:15 /usr/bin/browser --url=about: --engine=opera Oct 17 20:58:45 Okay... Oct 17 20:58:48 It loaded the about page. Oct 17 20:59:00 What am I looking in it? Oct 17 20:59:18 i dunno, is it opera or microb? :) Oct 17 20:59:32 Didn't the about thing specify the engine? Oct 17 20:59:41 about: doesn't Oct 17 20:59:47 oh I see. Oct 17 20:59:48 --engine does, i don't know which you used Oct 17 20:59:49 MicroB. Oct 17 20:59:49 <_Monkey> microb is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007) Oct 17 21:00:07 ignore _monkey, that's a reasonable response Oct 17 21:00:31 oh this is funny. Oct 17 21:00:36 It works nicely as root. Oct 17 21:00:39 ok, open settings and check your homepage? Oct 17 21:00:41 So probably a permissions problem? Oct 17 21:00:47 could be Oct 17 21:00:52 * timeless shrugs Oct 17 21:01:14 How can I set the default engine to Opera? Oct 17 21:01:25 app menu>set engine Oct 17 21:01:44 neat Oct 17 21:02:07 ah. good old' opera. Oct 17 21:02:18 i'd like to know what's wrong w/ microb Oct 17 21:02:29 please let me know when you have time to investigate Oct 17 21:03:13 Well, how could I help you? Oct 17 21:03:18 pauliukas, timeless talking aboutthe repeating error alert when it can't get toe a page for example? Oct 17 21:03:27 yes Oct 17 21:03:34 I see that also Oct 17 21:03:38 cd /usr/lib/micro* Oct 17 21:03:46 770, latest 2006 Oct 17 21:03:49 find . -type f|xargs ls -l Oct 17 21:03:52 same here Oct 17 21:04:06 timeless: Want me to pastebin that or what? Oct 17 21:04:06 does the output seem reasonable? Oct 17 21:04:11 sure Oct 17 21:04:14 all owned by root Oct 17 21:04:19 readable? Oct 17 21:04:26 ownership is expected Oct 17 21:04:27 yeah. Oct 17 21:04:35 if files aren't readable, that's a problem Oct 17 21:04:39 big chunk scrolled.. Oct 17 21:04:45 -rw-r--r-- Oct 17 21:04:47 use > /tmp/something Oct 17 21:04:48 That's readable, right? Oct 17 21:04:51 yes Oct 17 21:05:10 All files look about the same: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11972 Aug 10 16:51 ./libplc4.so Oct 17 21:05:20 in microb (you can use --engine=microb --url=about:) try entering: Oct 17 21:05:20 / Oct 17 21:05:27 as the entire url and pressing enter/go Oct 17 21:05:31 does it load? Oct 17 21:05:35 all was readable in my scroll buffer Oct 17 21:06:06 This is very weird. Oct 17 21:06:12 should microb work in 2007HE ? Oct 17 21:06:15 yes Oct 17 21:06:16 no Oct 17 21:06:17 I now set Mozilla as the engine and it worked fine as non-root. Oct 17 21:06:20 index of file:/// Oct 17 21:06:26 well, rather, no idea if it works in 2007he Oct 17 21:06:37 someone wanted me to post an annoucement of a specially made version for 2007he Oct 17 21:06:40 was working fairly well for me last week Oct 17 21:06:40 Maybe executing under root made it fix the permissions Oct 17 21:06:41 ? Oct 17 21:06:42 which to me seemed both pointless Oct 17 21:06:44 and problematic Oct 17 21:06:56 since it actually had obvious bugs when i tested it Oct 17 21:07:20 anyway, if the normal microb for 2007 works on 2007he, it'd be nice to know Oct 17 21:07:25 i'd love to kill the project Oct 17 21:07:25 gives "internal error" Oct 17 21:07:31 ok :) Oct 17 21:07:44 I only see the popup alert in cases where it can't get to the page Oct 17 21:07:46 if you want, ii have a repo url for a repo w/ a port for 2007he Oct 17 21:07:48 Actually, the speed isn't too bad. Oct 17 21:07:55 r2d2: yeah yeah, hold on Oct 17 21:08:03 If this doesn't crash like Opera does, I'll be a happy camper. Oct 17 21:08:07 that would be nice Oct 17 21:08:15 timeless, I think I was using the 2006 version of mircob in the 2007 HE Oct 17 21:08:22 can you guys try clicking in turn Oct 17 21:08:33 no rush Oct 17 21:08:35 clicking in turn? Oct 17 21:08:35 usr, lib, microb-engine, chrome, toolkit, content, global Oct 17 21:08:41 yup Oct 17 21:08:45 ^ one after another as they appear :) Oct 17 21:08:59 sorry, typing takes time,... Oct 17 21:09:14 Why not an absolute path instead? Oct 17 21:09:27 because i want to test things piecemeal Oct 17 21:09:29 cd /usr/lib/microb-engine/chrome/toolkit/content/global/ Oct 17 21:09:35 oh... Oct 17 21:09:41 if you're getting an error, i want to verify things step by step Oct 17 21:09:52 I'm not getting errors anymore, heh. Oct 17 21:10:02 reopening the browser... got impatient Oct 17 21:10:08 night -> Oct 17 21:11:34 sp3000, I didn't thank you, did I? thanks :-) Oct 17 21:11:42 np :) Oct 17 21:12:07 timeless, got to global, no errors Oct 17 21:12:37 click netError.xhtml Oct 17 21:13:10 loaded, "Cannot Complete Request" Oct 17 21:13:20 that's fine Oct 17 21:13:24 the normal error screeen Oct 17 21:13:25 right Oct 17 21:13:54 ok, try loading somethinglistawful.kahdkjsahdskjahdk Oct 17 21:13:57 what happens? Oct 17 21:14:02 Oct 17 21:14:07 did the equivilent Oct 17 21:14:08 Oct 17 21:14:11 got the pop up Oct 17 21:14:14 btw, there's an osso_screenshot_tool somewhere, sp3000 might know where Oct 17 21:14:27 what *precisely* does it say? Oct 17 21:14:31 is it really file; ? Oct 17 21:14:41 Hmmm Oct 17 21:14:47 "Address type is unknown or unsupported ..." give the URL to the path we just clicked peicemeail Oct 17 21:14:48 Anyone got Flash 9 working on the 770? Oct 17 21:15:19 iirc we tested it internally, it works Oct 17 21:15:22 file:///usr/lib/microb-engine/chrome/toolkit/content/global/netEWrror.xhtml Oct 17 21:15:31 netEW? Oct 17 21:15:38 my bad Oct 17 21:15:47 * timeless frowns Oct 17 21:15:49 i don't get it Oct 17 21:15:52 should have rechecked before hitting enter... not after Oct 17 21:15:54 timeless: How about for people expternally? Oct 17 21:16:04 we can't legally distribute it Oct 17 21:16:08 buy an n800 Oct 17 21:16:10 copy the file Oct 17 21:16:13 Who said it has to be legal. Oct 17 21:16:16 the instructions are mostly on my blog Oct 17 21:16:21 minus one detail Oct 17 21:16:26 the plugins dir is slightly different Oct 17 21:16:30 except for the extra "W" that's it Oct 17 21:16:39 it's something like /usr/bin/browser/plugins/2007/ ? Oct 17 21:16:53 * timeless can't remeember that detail :( Oct 17 21:16:58 hmm but the ok didn't cause a repeat this time.. Oct 17 21:16:59 strace would tell you if strace worked Oct 17 21:17:04 it went to google for a google search Oct 17 21:17:18 Neat. Oct 17 21:17:31 My favorite russian cracksite has a zip for Flash9 on the 770. Oct 17 21:17:35 With the so and instructions Oct 17 21:17:40 heh Oct 17 21:17:46 I'm just kidding. Oct 17 21:17:57 timeless, the suggested nonsense pattern does cause the repeating pop up Oct 17 21:18:00 instructions would havev been in russian :) Oct 17 21:18:08 timeless: Too bad. I can read a bit of it. Oct 17 21:18:28 Having close russian friends open up a world of possibilities. Oct 17 21:18:32 That's all I'm going to say. Oct 17 21:19:16 hrm Oct 17 21:19:20 can you get strace working? Oct 17 21:19:32 MUAHAHAHAH Oct 17 21:19:36 it'd be moderately interesting to know whether or not the file is being checked Oct 17 21:19:38 I found a forum with instructions Oct 17 21:19:39 YES! Oct 17 21:19:51 Yes. Download for libflash is working. Oct 17 21:19:54 I'm in business now Oct 17 21:20:19 sorry, re legal, i'm a nokian, i can't do or suggest things that aren't Oct 17 21:20:31 I'm not asking you to. Oct 17 21:20:32 and the people who make os2007he while strange are still bound by law Oct 17 21:20:36 I just showed my joy. Oct 17 21:20:39 so no flash9 Oct 17 21:21:04 I'm wondering how the performance is, though. Flash 6 is pathetic on the 770. Oct 17 21:21:07 but you can legally buy an n800 for 240USD and get flash9 Oct 17 21:21:14 I'm having problems with the microb build instructions on the garage site - is anyone able to give me some pointers? Oct 17 21:21:16 770 had flash7 not flash6 Oct 17 21:21:23 Yeah? Tigerdirect sold the 800 for $450 or so Oct 17 21:21:27 doublec: hi Oct 17 21:21:28 And the 770 for $150 Oct 17 21:21:30 hi timeless Oct 17 21:21:41 doublec: what's failing? Oct 17 21:22:04 http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n800-internet-tablet/q/loc/101/204055141.html Oct 17 21:22:10 Our Price: $239.99 Oct 17 21:22:10 I'm running in scratchbox. I have the svn checked out. changed to microb-engine/microb-engine. fakeroot apt-get build-dep microb-engine gives me: Oct 17 21:22:11 Shipping: FREE Oct 17 21:22:12 I'm in Canada. Oct 17 21:22:16 Doesn't work that easily. Oct 17 21:22:26 unable to find source package for microb-engine Oct 17 21:22:28 TigerDirect is like the only big computer stuff distributor here. Oct 17 21:22:31 pauliukas: you need a friend in NY or Detroit Oct 17 21:22:40 timeless: No, man, no... Oct 17 21:22:43 A friend in Moscow Oct 17 21:22:44 :-P Oct 17 21:22:52 i don't think we sell in russia at all Oct 17 21:22:54 Then you could get a stolen 800 Oct 17 21:22:58 which is ... clever in its own right Oct 17 21:23:01 Who said you sold to them? Oct 17 21:23:19 As sad as it is, it's probably true. Oct 17 21:23:31 doublec: err Oct 17 21:23:38 gah Oct 17 21:23:43 apt sucks Oct 17 21:23:52 if I ignore that and do dpkg-buildpackage I get libidl-dev bc libcairo2-dev as missing build dependancies Oct 17 21:23:56 sp3000: can you help doublec work aroudn apt being stupid Oct 17 21:23:57 should I have something in my apt source? Oct 17 21:24:10 doublec: libidl-dev is in the microb sources Oct 17 21:24:15 * suihkulokki strangles timeless with yum Oct 17 21:24:25 ..now that would be a *slow* death Oct 17 21:24:25 yayayay, framebuffer access works from the dsp :) Oct 17 21:24:56 doublec: Oct 17 21:24:57 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/libidl/ Oct 17 21:25:01 * lardman now has a yellow screen Oct 17 21:25:08 lol Oct 17 21:25:10 go into that directory and play w/ debian/rules Oct 17 21:25:16 that'll get you libidl-dev, i hope Oct 17 21:25:23 ok, thanks Oct 17 21:25:29 * Tak "Ruby Interface Loaded." Oct 17 21:25:31 you should have that from your checkout Oct 17 21:25:32 * Tak laughs evilly Oct 17 21:25:42 timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test is just a cross reference Oct 17 21:25:49 yes, I have it Oct 17 21:26:18 lardman: cool Oct 17 21:26:38 bc you need to find a repository Oct 17 21:26:54 doublec, I have a 'orrible script to solve your problem. Let me dig it out. Oct 17 21:27:00 thanks m-vo Oct 17 21:27:25 suihkulokki: going to try piping mplayer output directly to the screen via dsp now Oct 17 21:28:28 i have no idea about libcairo-dev, Oct 17 21:28:45 doublec, https://garage.maemo.org/svn/sardine/trunk/apt-installbuilddeps Oct 17 21:28:46 damn, no new firmware yet Oct 17 21:28:52 ok, just watched som videos and holy smokes that 2008 ui is sweet! Oct 17 21:29:29 big, finger focued menus with big scroll arrows and all. ok, i dont care if i have to sell my soul for this one, i want it and i want it bad! Oct 17 21:29:42 lol Oct 17 21:29:57 doublec, I was mostly guessing what your problem was. If the script confuses you, maybe I misunderstood. Oct 17 21:29:58 i'll take your soul, you drive a really weak bargain Oct 17 21:30:02 re Oct 17 21:30:09 thanks m-vo, looking at it now Oct 17 21:33:48 ok, now I need to find a repostory with flex in it Oct 17 21:34:14 err Oct 17 21:34:19 what wans flex? Oct 17 21:34:22 libidl-dev Oct 17 21:34:23 <_Monkey> it has been said that libidl-dev is in the microb sources Oct 17 21:34:24 * timeless sighs Oct 17 21:34:32 oh brother Oct 17 21:34:39 yeah, have fun Oct 17 21:34:43 yeah, apt dependancies are fun :) Oct 17 21:34:50 did i mention that apt sucks? Oct 17 21:34:55 once or twice Oct 17 21:35:11 it needs to be repeated :( Oct 17 21:35:12 heh shoot the messenger Oct 17 21:36:21 timeless: did you get response re versions to the 693 thing Oct 17 21:36:23 Heh, there are sucky parts in apt, and the whole thing reads like a prototype (which it probably is), but in general it's good. Oct 17 21:36:42 was that the bugs.maemo.org bug? Oct 17 21:36:46 if so, yes Oct 17 21:37:11 I guess I have a maemo2.2 test package, not that I have anything to test such a thing with Oct 17 21:37:29 it doesn't handle broken repositories as well you might want, but then again, repositories should not be broken. Oct 17 21:37:38 hih. mapper almost builds under chinook Oct 17 21:37:49 m-vo: shoulds are nice, they're also unrealistic Oct 17 21:37:52 Crikey .. Oct 17 21:38:09 I just looked at the Python API for libosso .. It's horrible. Oct 17 21:38:30 Maybe for Nokia/maemo but not for normal people. Oct 17 21:38:31 timeless: I take it I fell out of cc then Oct 17 21:38:49 sp3000: i'll have to figure out which thing you mean Oct 17 21:38:49 alterego: got xchat-ruby and my plugin going on 770 ;-) Oct 17 21:39:00 Tak, fancy :) Oct 17 21:39:05 oh Oct 17 21:39:08 no, that didn't get resolved Oct 17 21:39:14 Tak, did you use one of my packages? Oct 17 21:39:17 k Oct 17 21:39:19 lemme finnish dealing w/ osol Oct 17 21:39:21 finish Oct 17 21:39:23 whichever Oct 17 21:39:23 <_Monkey> whichever is the current grouper Oct 17 21:39:24 yeah, I used all of your packages Oct 17 21:39:29 * timeless blames those annoyhing finns Oct 17 21:39:32 Cool, :) Oct 17 21:39:34 _monkey forget whichever Oct 17 21:39:34 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot whichever Oct 17 21:39:40 _monkey whichever is Oct 17 21:39:41 <_Monkey> OK, timeless. Oct 17 21:39:45 xchat-ruby on top of that, ruby plugin on top of that Oct 17 21:39:54 Nice. Oct 17 21:39:57 I just have to go on a bit about apt suckage... Oct 17 21:40:07 monkey, ukmp Oct 17 21:40:20 monkey, ukmp? Oct 17 21:40:35 apt-get is not good at configuration management: "Give me all -dbg packages corresponding to libfoo and all its dependencies". Oct 17 21:40:36 <||cw> Esworp: it's name starts with an _ Oct 17 21:40:55 oh, duh. Oct 17 21:41:11 It is also missing the "satisfy this Depends: line" operation. Oct 17 21:41:11 <_Monkey> okay, m-vo. Oct 17 21:41:35 _Monkey, ukmp? Oct 17 21:41:36 <_Monkey> ukmp is a Media Player, available for download at http://maemo.org/downloads/product/ukmp Oct 17 21:41:46 It used to suck at removing unneeded packages, but that seems to have changed. Oct 17 21:42:14 google says tha unneeded is not a word Oct 17 21:42:17 i happen to agree Oct 17 21:42:31 http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&ei=voEWR576Hqb8wwGOqayKCA&sig2=WFDaF_IvAAYAxI8INjHv0g&q=http://www.answers.com/unnecessary%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNFq2J-tnRZGVxjJsO9PfCxZPL_mug Oct 17 21:42:51 * timeless sighs Oct 17 21:43:02 Heh, don't try to side-track the discussion. timeless, you are a pedant! :-) Oct 17 21:43:15 i wonder if i can get a newer laptop if i can prove to BI that my t key doesn't work reliably Oct 17 21:43:26 and "tha" isn' t a word either :-P Oct 17 21:43:50 m-vo: see followup. i'm one response ahead of you :( Oct 17 21:44:06 Excuses, excuses... Oct 17 21:44:21 oh wierd Oct 17 21:44:22 anyway, where was I? Oct 17 21:44:26 i'm seeeing a nokia add Oct 17 21:44:31 from ansi vanyoki Oct 17 21:44:34 s/add$/ad Oct 17 21:44:40 from nokia hq in espoo Oct 17 21:44:56 and please don't expect me to be able to spell his name correctly Oct 17 21:44:59 has anyone else had trouble with ossocpu? the lil cpu graph applet? Oct 17 21:45:02 i don't speak Finnish Oct 17 21:45:21 Then, of course, the libapt-pkg API is C++ from the 70ties. Oct 17 21:45:34 i install it, but never shows up when i turn it 'on' Oct 17 21:45:59 should be "vanjoki" I think. Oct 17 21:46:03 it worked fine before i updated Oct 17 21:46:32 Anssi Vanjoki Oct 17 21:46:34 Q - does anyone know of an easy way to adjust (or turn off) the key repeat when using BT keyboards? I have tried xset770, but to no avail. Oct 17 21:46:44 they stuck his name into a graphic for a few seconds Oct 17 21:47:04 * timeless wonders why he's on TV Oct 17 21:47:22 Digitali Convergensi Oct 17 21:47:39 sp3000: is he in our management chain? :o Oct 17 21:47:55 heh, Nokia Music Store Oct 17 21:48:01 they didn't translate that Oct 17 21:48:12 There is a verkkokauppa ad for Nokia phones that show that you can get your name engraved in them, and one of the names is Olli-Pekka. Oct 17 21:48:18 _Monkey, media player? Oct 17 21:48:18 <_Monkey> esworp: wish i knew Oct 17 21:48:39 m-vo: Olli and Pekka both seem to be fairly common Oct 17 21:48:46 is that interesting? Oct 17 21:49:12 which reminds me, i need to publish a comment into a bug :( Oct 17 21:49:12 Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo, the Nokia CEO. Oct 17 21:49:13 timeless: what this guy? http://www.nokia.com/A4126347 Oct 17 21:49:23 sp3000: he's on tv now Oct 17 21:49:34 mtv3 Oct 17 21:49:39 um Oct 17 21:49:42 i can't reach nokia.com Oct 17 21:49:46 because nokia *fscks* w/ dns Oct 17 21:49:52 anyone have a mirror? :) Oct 17 21:49:59 he's blond :) Oct 17 21:50:04 Heh Oct 17 21:50:18 oh good Oct 17 21:50:22 there's someone speaking English Oct 17 21:50:49 oh god Oct 17 21:50:50 mierda conexion... Oct 17 21:50:55 they're using Holocaus imagery Oct 17 21:50:59 * timeless sighs Oct 17 21:51:05 i need a keyboard where the t key works Oct 17 21:51:18 oh no Oct 17 21:51:19 42 Oct 17 21:51:30 lookd like it does. :P Oct 17 21:51:32 they just claimed that they have a solution, so they just need to find the problem Oct 17 21:52:09 sp3000: got a tv, or did you decide against paying the tv license? Oct 17 21:52:16 s/the/for the/ Oct 17 21:52:16 timeless meant: sp3000: got a tv, or did you decide against paying for the tv license? Oct 17 21:52:24 good bot Oct 17 21:52:33 I have one Oct 17 21:52:42 turn on mtv3, he's on now Oct 17 21:52:49 indeed Oct 17 21:54:22 well Oct 17 21:54:23 http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/10/17/the-nokia-n810-internet-tablet/ Oct 17 21:54:26 :D Oct 17 21:55:31 err, they showed off the swedish keylayout? Oct 17 21:55:34 why? Oct 17 21:55:43 => sp3000 Oct 17 21:55:48 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/004.jpg Oct 17 21:55:52 swedish? Oct 17 21:55:57 shruggery Oct 17 21:56:04 it's not English Oct 17 21:56:11 I'm assuming it isn't Finnish Oct 17 21:56:19 looks finnish enough to me Oct 17 21:56:21 probably the same Oct 17 21:56:21 unless ao is really tha important Oct 17 21:56:42 it's finnish. Oct 17 21:56:57 but not the end! Oct 17 21:57:00 it's the same layout Oct 17 21:57:18 but why would you show off either? Oct 17 21:57:29 this was a launch in sf.ca.us., no? Oct 17 21:57:34 it's för metäl döts! Oct 17 21:57:44 \m/. Oct 17 21:58:00 sp3000: and for those of us unicode challenged? Oct 17 21:58:20 it's for metal dots. Oct 17 21:58:22 perhaps it is promoting the fact that also other languages than eng work. :) Oct 17 21:58:30 they do? Oct 17 21:58:35 last i checked they didn't :) Oct 17 21:58:42 aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_umlaut Oct 17 21:58:44 well yes, they do. Oct 17 21:58:51 certainly, if you come to the US w/ the Map(*cough*) applet, you'll have a real hard time Oct 17 21:59:00 given that you won't be able to get it to speak to you in Miles Oct 17 21:59:25 it seems we paid extra to make sure you couldn't use Miles if you visited the US and didn't speak English Oct 17 21:59:52 The metric system rules the world anyway. Oct 17 22:00:09 because French speaking Canadians, Spanish speaking Mexicans, and German/Russian speakers would never want to visit the US Oct 17 22:00:45 Royale with Cheese. -> Oct 17 22:00:51 * timeless notes that nordic denizens tend to be able to speak English, so it's not a problem for them Oct 17 22:01:04 eh? Oct 17 22:04:10 the 810 looks nice. what are the chances of it being available in australia/new zealand Oct 17 22:04:19 doublec: nill Oct 17 22:04:29 I guessed :) Oct 17 22:04:31 pick it up the next time you visit stateside Oct 17 22:04:38 doublec: we pay to localize in Russian Oct 17 22:04:41 but we don't sell in Russia Oct 17 22:04:44 hehe Oct 17 22:04:52 we don't pay to localize for Ausies/Kiwis Oct 17 22:05:21 <||cw> does AU even need localisation? Oct 17 22:05:38 <||cw> other than timezone... Oct 17 22:06:25 <||cw> what symbol does AU use for their dollar? Oct 17 22:06:49 technically word choice in Australia is a mix between US and GB Oct 17 22:06:52 $ Oct 17 22:06:53 they have to have words like outback etc Oct 17 22:07:00 so arguably you should try to get words right Oct 17 22:07:02 arvo = afternoon Oct 17 22:07:28 I'm quite sure the australians can understand English though Oct 17 22:07:29 arvo in finnish means value :) Oct 17 22:07:37 otoh, we can't get the words right for US or GB Oct 17 22:07:37 <||cw> timeless: what kind of words are we talking about? Oct 17 22:07:42 so why start w/ Australia? Oct 17 22:08:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences Oct 17 22:08:19 <||cw> for most apps, the only difference between US and GB is the symbol for money Oct 17 22:08:25 search for Austral in that article Oct 17 22:08:30 timeless: maybe one of them would just match by au by accident :P Oct 17 22:08:33 ||cw: not on our device Oct 17 22:08:37 s/by // Oct 17 22:08:37 sp3000 meant: timeless: maybe one of them would just match au by accident :P Oct 17 22:08:41 spelling things with a z and without a u are very annoying though Oct 17 22:08:58 lardman: or the reverse Oct 17 22:09:03 thankfully we have a solution Oct 17 22:09:15 our map app says catalog should be spelled w/o the ue for GB Oct 17 22:09:19 everyone learn Finnish? Oct 17 22:09:24 because consistency is taboo Oct 17 22:09:31 lardman: Turn to horizontal Oct 17 22:09:34 Turn to vertical Oct 17 22:09:49 the only good thing about Finnish is that it shows how piss poor the English was to begin with Oct 17 22:10:04 interesting, python2.5-hildon contains module called hildonglade that seems to do what is needed to hildonize a glade file. It's just rather light on documentation. Oct 17 22:10:24 jiten_: people are trying to use glade heavily for the future Oct 17 22:10:34 which is a good thing, because the gtk C code i've seen is awful Oct 17 22:10:35 * sp3000 contemplates turning to horizontal Oct 17 22:10:45 <||cw> ok, so if US and GB aren't consistent, why worry about AU? most poeple have no problem with alternate spellings and are not confused Oct 17 22:10:46 sp3000: if the image is horizontal, do nothing Oct 17 22:10:58 if the image is vertical, do the wrong thing Oct 17 22:11:04 <||cw> seems like a silly reason not to sell the device in that country Oct 17 22:11:20 ||cw: having paid to localize it for Russian Oct 17 22:11:28 I'm building a new gui (porting qt application) and building the gtk structure in code gets old rather fast so I started looking again. Oct 17 22:11:28 doesn't it seem sillier not to sell it in Russia? Oct 17 22:11:37 * sp3000 contemplates turning horizontal himself, that is Oct 17 22:11:40 <||cw> there are lots of non-russians that speak russian Oct 17 22:11:57 ||cw: i think there are more Russian speakers in Russia than there are... Oct 17 22:12:05 <||cw> russia is an oddball country, AU is not very different from US and GB Oct 17 22:12:06 russian speakers elsewhere who would buy teh device Oct 17 22:12:10 <||cw> economy wise Oct 17 22:12:12 Well, at least there is the source. Oct 17 22:12:19 s/teh/the/ Oct 17 22:12:19 timeless meant: russian speakers elsewhere who would buy the device Oct 17 22:12:20 maybe I'll figure out how to use that Oct 17 22:12:55 <||cw> selling products in russia, or in any country for that matter, is more of the political matter Oct 17 22:13:13 if by politics you mean internal corporate, sure Oct 17 22:13:35 hey guys Oct 17 22:13:35 <||cw> as well as free market politics Oct 17 22:13:46 <||cw> it's hard for a non-russian company to sell stuff in russia Oct 17 22:13:49 i'm fairly cerain that doesn't enter it Oct 17 22:13:53 oh the 770, how do you get teh software kb to some back after using a bt kb? Oct 17 22:14:10 im using the os2007 port now and thi sis the only thing bothering me so far Oct 17 22:14:12 turning off bluetooth doesn't work? Oct 17 22:14:16 no Oct 17 22:14:23 it makes no sense :/ Oct 17 22:14:26 www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/About_Nokia/Press/Press_Events/zz_New_Potential/Russia_backgrounder.pd Oct 17 22:14:27 f Oct 17 22:14:45 I dont have it connected and the software one still wont come up Oct 17 22:15:05 Nokia Phones Go on the Back Shelf - Kommersant Moscow Oct 17 22:15:05 Euroset management has ordered Nokia phones to be sold as cheaply as ... the dispute with Euroset may cost Nokia its leading position on the Russian market. Oct 17 22:15:06 www.kommersant.com/p699966/r_1/Nokia_Phones_Go_on_the_Back_Shelf/ Oct 17 22:15:13 seems fairly clear that Nokia sells in Russia Oct 17 22:15:20 although, perhaps not at the price point they want :) Oct 17 22:17:35 any ideas> Oct 17 22:17:36 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/os2007on770/ Oct 17 22:17:40 tahts what I have installed currently Oct 17 22:17:43 I've been thinking maybe I should try to write a better sw keyboard, IMO using qwerty in tap screen is just horrible. Perhaps something like one hand dvorak, I don't know yet. Oct 17 22:17:57 hrm Oct 17 22:18:32 probably not worth the effort, unless you know dvorak already Oct 17 22:18:39 * lardman wonders why /sys/devices/platform/dsp/mmu was removed on the N800 Oct 17 22:18:52 Mikho, I know dvorak already, though not the one hand variant :P Oct 17 22:19:25 Mikho, but I think putting letters used commonly together next to each other would make the sw keyb a lot more usable. Oct 17 22:19:55 ah, a live dvorak writer! Oct 17 22:20:10 yes, but unfortuately it's pretty language dependent Oct 17 22:20:13 It took maybe 2 weeks to get used, now I use it regularly. Oct 17 22:20:14 SLi, do you know how to bring up the software keyboard once its gone? Oct 17 22:20:16 Yeah. Oct 17 22:20:31 x2, what? Gone? Oct 17 22:20:44 When i click in a text field, it will not come up Oct 17 22:20:58 This is asfter using a bt keyboard Oct 17 22:21:17 i tried disabling bt and removing the hardware keyboard and got nowhere Oct 17 22:21:27 Hm. Don't know about that. Oct 17 22:21:41 :( Oct 17 22:21:53 using the hacker edition on the 770 Oct 17 22:22:08 Mikho, well, I'm a Finn, I write mostly Finnish and English with a slightly finnishized dvorak (mostly just adding åäö). If anyone's interested, I haven't found dvorak at least much faster than qwerty, but it's somehow a lot more comfortable for my wrists. Oct 17 22:22:26 hmm Oct 17 22:22:45 guess im screwed? Oct 17 22:22:47 lol Oct 17 22:22:52 Interesting problem. :P Oct 17 22:22:58 i cant put 2006 on my mmc in 30 mins Oct 17 22:23:00 = screwed Oct 17 22:23:01 lol Oct 17 22:23:06 i'm looking for an easy way to use dnotify from python. inotify somehow doesn't work Oct 17 22:23:45 well looks like it has most of the vowels on the center row on thel left Oct 17 22:23:50 Yes. Oct 17 22:24:59 the finnish layout is actually pretty annoying sometimes Oct 17 22:25:12 heh Oct 17 22:25:19 You mean qwerty-fi or some variant of dvorak-fi? Oct 17 22:25:22 is there a firmware list on maemo? Oct 17 22:25:25 it's hard to type ~, @, \ and ^ Oct 17 22:25:29 x2: eh? Oct 17 22:25:41 on normal qwerty Oct 17 22:25:51 like a list Oct 17 22:26:00 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/index.xml Oct 17 22:26:00 os06, hacker edition Oct 17 22:26:04 are there more? Oct 17 22:26:10 x2: Would you give an approximate mapping? Oct 17 22:26:17 scroll there Oct 17 22:26:21 The most annoying thing with dvorak-fi (or actually dvorak-se) is that they've changed it in X at least twice while I've been using it :P Now I use the latest dvorak-fi (it didn't change that much) and have an xmodmap file for all other environments I need to use to get the same layout. Oct 17 22:26:26 that's the list i had at the time Oct 17 22:26:51 thanks :) Oct 17 22:26:55 Mikho, yeah, that's true. Dvorak doesn't help that... Oct 17 22:27:07 from my perspective, he doesn't count Oct 17 22:27:18 it's supposed to be equivalent to other os's Oct 17 22:27:36 I guess one-hand dvorak wouldn't be a perfect keyboard for touch screens either. Oct 17 22:27:46 there's one image past the last 3.x i listed, but it's just a single kernel fix Oct 17 22:28:10 ok Oct 17 22:28:26 so, basically Oct 17 22:28:27 maybe I'll hack my keyboard handlers to type ^ and ~ with a single keypress Oct 17 22:28:31 I have to run 06 on my 770 Oct 17 22:28:34 or 07 hackers Oct 17 22:28:42 or 05 Oct 17 22:28:49 yea but bleh Oct 17 22:28:52 there will be an 08 for n800 Oct 17 22:29:01 argg Oct 17 22:29:01 Another idea I've been playing with is teaching my n800 the original palm graffitis (which seem to usually work much better than normal letters, but the stupid system let someone patent using just one stroke for letters so nobody else uses that). Oct 17 22:29:12 and the 770 backport of 2007 is being run on garage Oct 17 22:29:12 I need to find out how to get my software keyboard back Oct 17 22:29:16 I like hackers Oct 17 22:29:16 they may do whatever they like Oct 17 22:29:27 does anyone here use a mmc to boot off? Oct 17 22:29:29 faster? Oct 17 22:29:44 x2, no, but I doubt it's faster. Oct 17 22:29:49 SLi: so they can't ship something that useful with the device? Oct 17 22:29:51 ah Oct 17 22:29:58 it says its 2x the speed so I was just wondering Oct 17 22:30:00 how often do you boot though? Oct 17 22:30:06 Jiten_, yeah. Oct 17 22:30:11 *overall system speed Oct 17 22:30:11 so i imagine the speed hit is not a big deal Oct 17 22:30:16 oh Oct 17 22:30:26 doublec: i boot often Oct 17 22:30:32 lol me too Oct 17 22:30:34 just to show how slow boots can be Oct 17 22:30:35 i do leave it on a lot though Oct 17 22:30:38 haha Oct 17 22:30:40 lol Oct 17 22:30:42 no kidding Oct 17 22:30:48 mine take well over 30s before i get the progress meter Oct 17 22:30:50 and i have witnesses Oct 17 22:30:56 lots of them, including sp3000 Oct 17 22:31:01 and glazou Oct 17 22:31:01 LOl Oct 17 22:31:08 mine does too Oct 17 22:31:14 hackers seems a bit slower Oct 17 22:31:18 and more unstable Oct 17 22:31:22 you should put a game in the bootup process to give people something to do during boot Oct 17 22:31:26 ill try mmc boot tonight though Oct 17 22:31:31 with it Oct 17 22:31:36 lol Oct 17 22:31:38 pacman! Oct 17 22:31:38 <_Monkey> i think pacman is even running slow Oct 17 22:31:44 LOL :p Oct 17 22:31:47 _monkey forget pacman Oct 17 22:31:48 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot pacman Oct 17 22:31:54 _monkey pacman is Oct 17 22:31:55 <_Monkey> OK, timeless. Oct 17 22:36:33 YES! Oct 17 22:36:36 i got it back lol Oct 17 22:36:43 had to connect my bluetooth kb Oct 17 22:36:46 Perhaps I should start by installing a qwerty soft-kb that logs what I type so I can think about optimizing the layout. Oct 17 22:36:47 then disconnect Oct 17 22:36:58 lol Oct 17 22:37:17 I just don't like the idea of optimizing my keyboard layout so that my password is easy to type with it :P Oct 17 22:37:24 :p Oct 17 22:37:32 ill be back in here on the tablet in class Oct 17 22:37:36 got class at 7 :/ Oct 17 22:38:19 i got libidl to build Oct 17 22:38:45 I needed to follow the steps regarding flex here: http://www.scratchbox.org/wiki/Apophis-r4 Oct 17 22:39:35 oh yea Oct 17 22:39:43 is there any easy way to use ssl with xchat Oct 17 22:40:00 I thought it was included with xchat but I dont see it listed anywhere Oct 17 22:42:19 x2 it's in the server editing dialog. Oct 17 22:42:39 doublec: enjoying scratchbox eh ;) Oct 17 22:42:50 oh yeah, having lots of fun :) Oct 17 22:42:58 i cant scroll that down though Oct 17 22:43:04 no scroll bar lol Oct 17 22:43:16 i tabbed through it last time Oct 17 22:43:27 :/ Oct 17 22:55:14 when hacking on the microb source, do you build/test in scratchbox all the time or in the host linux? Oct 17 22:56:01 mixed Oct 17 22:56:54 Only one SD slot?!?! Oct 17 22:57:06 And it's min!??! Oct 17 22:57:12 >:( Oct 17 22:58:26 is there a point to using miniSD when you could use microSD? Oct 17 22:58:51 That's not the point. I would have expected dual ful SD/MMC slots like the N800 Oct 17 22:59:00 microsds are easier to misplace Oct 17 23:00:26 Mikho: true, but you could fit 2 slots in the place of one miniSD... at least I'd think so. Oct 17 23:00:42 Oh, it does take SD cards .. Oct 17 23:00:48 Stoopid thoughtfix. Oct 17 23:01:38 what only has one SD slot? Oct 17 23:01:40 Appearantly the sales package doesn't include a complimentary memory card :) Oct 17 23:01:56 I dunno, the spec is somewhat beta. Oct 17 23:02:19 <|R> seeing the inside, it seemed like the internal SD was plated over with metal.. Oct 17 23:02:32 Having dual memory slots is one of the greatest things abouyt the N800 Oct 17 23:02:43 Seems silly that they'd remove that capability. Oct 17 23:03:16 Maybe that has something to do with the (Up to 2GB internal memory) Oct 17 23:03:33 I heard something about a memory upgrade next year. That's probably it. Oct 17 23:03:42 that 2GB is most likely in that internal SD slot that's plated over. Oct 17 23:04:00 Interesting .. Oct 17 23:05:04 well, at least you won't have to buy expansion to do much of anything with it. Oct 17 23:05:31 aside from music and videos, 2GB actually is something :) Oct 17 23:05:43 my n800 only has that much currently. Oct 17 23:05:46 Well, I've only got 2GB cards. Oct 17 23:05:51 I have 2x 2GB in my N800 Oct 17 23:05:55 Suits me perfectly .. Oct 17 23:07:41 <|R> same here, 256MB internal with OS, 128 miniSD on the outside and 2GB microSD inside... basically 2GB if rounded :P Oct 17 23:08:00 I don't use the MiniSD. Oct 17 23:08:07 Just the 2x 2GB SD's I have. Oct 17 23:08:47 Maybe with sshfs I could use the N800 as a second storage device ;) Oct 17 23:09:21 <|R> haha Oct 17 23:09:25 <|R> over pand Oct 17 23:09:40 :) Oct 17 23:09:54 <|R> actually, you could share the gpsd over pand and use maemo mapper on the n800 Oct 17 23:10:00 Well, it has ObexFTP :) Oct 17 23:10:00 <|R> (while you wait for it to be ported over ;) Oct 17 23:10:19 Clever Oct 17 23:10:27 <|R> hehe Oct 17 23:10:37 <|R> not very practical, but hey :) Oct 17 23:10:59 <|R> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1603061298&size=o Oct 17 23:10:59 Life wouldn't be fun if everything was practical :P Oct 17 23:11:01 <|R> this is not fair :P Oct 17 23:11:23 * |R will go see the kids for a candy exchange ... Oct 17 23:11:28 <|R> haha Oct 17 23:14:31 <|R> i just flashed my device and can't remember where/how to activate a .ashrc or equivalent file for aliases...? (/me really wish we had a full bash / ls / tar etc...) Oct 17 23:15:06 ;) Oct 17 23:15:15 * alterego uses SVN for all his configuration files. Oct 17 23:15:21 Anyhow, goodnight folks. Oct 17 23:15:24 <|R> hehe Oct 17 23:21:44 <|R> is OS2008 out for the n800 yet? Oct 17 23:23:14 It's not mid-November and the n810 isn't on sale yet. Oct 17 23:23:57 interesting comment about the 2008 os upping the n800's clock speed to 400mhz too Oct 17 23:24:09 I'm not so sure about that. Oct 17 23:24:14 * lardman is trawling though the 10million posts on itt Oct 17 23:24:31 I didn't get that impression when I read the linked e-mail. Oct 17 23:24:32 <|R> hehe :) Oct 17 23:26:03 * |R is asking too many stupid questions today and should have slept instead of trashing /bin :( Oct 17 23:29:39 success, almost. microb-engine is now building Oct 17 23:39:07 night all Oct 17 23:40:12 LOL |R Oct 17 23:40:25 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83381&postcount=160 Oct 17 23:50:53 wb unique311 Oct 17 23:51:35 hello Oct 17 23:51:52 i feel outdated...with this new tablet all over maemo.org Oct 17 23:52:54 heh Oct 17 23:53:16 I like getting e-mails from Bugzilla whenever people fix something. :) Oct 17 23:53:54 "the micro usb is a now accepted charger standard between all manufacturers. it is the next step forward. my razr2 has it. thanks!" i did not know this Oct 17 23:54:04 Yep. Oct 17 23:54:05 so this new OS running on the n810... Oct 17 23:54:15 when will the 800 users get it? Oct 17 23:54:24 When the N810 goes on sale next month. Oct 17 23:54:32 ahh Oct 17 23:56:08 'tis a happy day! Oct 17 23:56:17 pupnik...time to upgrade? Oct 17 23:56:23 Hmm. Oct 17 23:56:36 Looks like Maemo is now a supported platform on Forum Nokia now. Oct 17 23:56:38 well... people wanted a n800 with keyboard and now they have one Oct 17 23:56:38 Interesting. Oct 17 23:56:40 thanks nokia Oct 17 23:57:13 it looka like a umpc? Oct 17 23:58:50 great post zerojay re: gtk 2.10 Oct 17 23:58:52 your mom lo... oh nevermind Oct 17 23:59:06 If I didn't already have a tablet, I'd be far more intersted in the N810. As it stands, I'm still interested, but not as much thanks to the IT 2008 update for the N800. Oct 17 23:59:36 pupnik_: Oh... thanks. Even though I don't know all the nitty gritty details, I hope it was understandable. Oct 18 00:00:11 I'm just excited to see what this brings. Oct 18 00:01:14 I spent all day at work refreshing ITT.. and fixing the odd bug or two on our Bugzilla. Oct 18 00:01:17 the picture of the 4 year old with the 810 kind of raises hope that it is holdable while thumb is on dpad and keys Oct 18 00:01:31 I hope Nokia doesn't keep bringing them out rapid-fire or I'd never get any work done. ;) Oct 18 00:01:50 :) whose bugzilla do you maintain? Oct 18 00:02:12 Internal company bugzilla for our cell phone games. Oct 18 00:03:03 I think we'll pass 15000 bugs filed this week... not bad for two years for 7 games across 300 phones. Oct 18 00:04:25 rlah1q Oct 18 00:04:35 ! rather Oct 18 00:04:35 ah yah Oct 18 00:04:50 im in class Oct 18 00:04:51 lol Oct 18 00:04:57 bluetooth kb ftw Oct 18 00:04:58 I think about 2000 of those bugs are mine. Heh. Oct 18 00:05:15 http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1603061298&size=o * j e a l o u s y * (sfw) Oct 18 00:05:37 Current bugzilla champion: Samsung D500. 54 bugs, 21 major/severe/crash. Oct 18 00:05:57 Haha.. yeah, I felt the same way. Oct 18 00:06:08 "Is he going to taste it?" Oct 18 00:07:17 heheh drool on the shirt, that'd be me Oct 18 00:07:46 lol Oct 18 00:11:28 gdk_event_request_motions undeclared whe building microb-engine Oct 18 00:13:39 "I'm Hedgecore. I'm cynicism incarnate. The glass is neither half full, nor half empty, but it's a stupid glass and so's your face." - Hedgecore LOL Oct 18 00:14:10 Yeah, I thought that was quite funny. Oct 18 00:16:45 for ze games, the crucial unanswered question is resistance of the dpad Oct 18 00:21:26 Since the CPU on the N810 and the N800 are (effectively, I'm not 100% here) the same, might we get a scale up to 400MHz with OS2008 on the N800? Oct 18 00:21:29 timeless: Sorry about 2034. I didn't mean to call anyone out or anything like that. ;) Oct 18 00:22:03 GeneralAntilles: I think it's quite possible that we will. Oct 18 00:22:11 But trying not to get my hopes up too much. :) Oct 18 00:22:15 That . . . would be freaking amazing. Oct 18 00:22:55 Like it's been mentioned, Sony did something similar with the PSP, underclocking it to 222mhz from 333mhz because of battery concerns. Oct 18 00:23:06 (Right as I say that, my kid hands me back my PSP.) Oct 18 00:23:26 But these days, Sony's allowing games to dynamically change the clock speed. Oct 18 00:23:42 Moving it up to 266, 300 or 333 as needed. Oct 18 00:23:57 And removing the underclocking, afaik Oct 18 00:24:04 No. Oct 18 00:24:21 I'm certain I read they were removing that, but I don't recall what I was reading. Oct 18 00:24:29 Unless games manually change the clock speed, it stays at 222mhz. Oct 18 00:24:58 Playing older games at higher clock speeds (hacked firmware) is great. Oct 18 00:25:12 Wipeout Pure at 333... smooth as silk. Oct 18 00:25:47 Even a small bump up in operating speed would be nice on the N800 though. Oct 18 00:26:18 Entails a bump in price, and it's already not cheap. Oct 18 00:26:44 did they fix the lcd/video bandwidth issue with the 810 Oct 18 00:26:53 Personally I'd like to see the camera and other things that are poor quality anyway removed in favor of a cpu upgrade. Oct 18 00:27:36 I like having a camera. I just wish it was better quality, but I still use it anyways. Oct 18 00:27:48 It's effectively useless for me Oct 18 00:27:49 Not as good as the PSP camera, but what can you do? Oct 18 00:28:17 I'd use it if there were N800-to-desktop support for video calls Oct 18 00:28:26 and I can't imagine why there isn't already. Oct 18 00:28:49 You know... it does seem kind of shitty that the PSP camera only cost me $40... 1.3megapixel... and they didn't even bother to put something that good in the N800. Oct 18 00:29:01 GeneralAntilles: If the 810 / IT2008 supprt gizmo you should be able to video <->PC Oct 18 00:29:10 hi Oct 18 00:29:11 <_Monkey> niihau, Ar-ras Oct 18 00:29:13 GeneralAntilles: They're still working on it. Oct 18 00:29:36 Supposedly. Oct 18 00:29:41 afaik it's a limitation of omap 2420 not natively supporting 800x480 Oct 18 00:30:04 Is it possible to connect a computermouse with the n800? Oct 18 00:30:09 with bluetooth Oct 18 00:30:20 does it get a cursor? Oct 18 00:30:20 So that would be yes, the 810 still has the broken hardware interface that will cripple full resolution video Oct 18 00:31:33 It's not broken. Oct 18 00:31:35 the pixels are so small that 800x480 video isn't very important Oct 18 00:31:43 I wish people wouldn't toss around a word like that so easily. Oct 18 00:31:51 agree Oct 18 00:32:10 Be nice if we could get a little higher bitrates, though. Oct 18 00:32:35 the 8x0 can not support full screen video because of compromises in design Oct 18 00:32:47 That would always be nice, but I'm not willing to sacrifice other things to get it. Oct 18 00:34:42 But even if they did, I'm sure it would have caused a negative uproar in one way or another. Oct 18 00:34:48 i hope nokia sells millions :/ Oct 18 00:35:08 Sometimes seems like Nokia can never do anything right when you read ITT. Oct 18 00:35:14 hehe Oct 18 00:35:16 hrm Oct 18 00:35:35 i love my 770 even Oct 18 00:35:40 on it now lol Oct 18 00:36:01 I've got my N800 everywhere I go. Oct 18 00:36:10 It's practically become my left hand. Oct 18 00:36:23 Anyone remember that N-Series website.. N Syndrome or something like that? Oct 18 00:36:23 yea :)p Oct 18 00:36:33 N95 Oct 18 00:36:34 yea :)p Oct 18 00:36:36 :-O Oct 18 00:36:39 is the 800 a lot better? Oct 18 00:36:52 im typing notes and crap on this now in class Oct 18 00:36:55 I don't have much experience with the 770, so I don't think I can help you with that. Oct 18 00:37:00 sure N800 is better then 770 Oct 18 00:37:00 ah Oct 18 00:37:03 lol Oct 18 00:38:12 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=216135&l=6e3c9&id=726931730 - Even though the camera isn't great, just the fact that I have it with me all the time is nice and helpful. Never know what you might see. ;) Oct 18 00:38:22 lol Oct 18 00:38:27 i use my razr for that now Oct 18 00:38:33 x2-tablet: It's a good upgrade, but if you've already purchased a 770, I doubt you'll get much from the N800 that would justify the cost. Oct 18 00:38:34 direct php upload Oct 18 00:38:41 I don't carry a cell phone. Oct 18 00:38:47 ill wait for the new one Oct 18 00:38:54 i do... Oct 18 00:38:55 well, the average person, that is. You may be a tech nerd, in which case, no generalizations apply. Oct 18 00:38:56 I refused to before and after two years of working on cell phones all day every day, I refuse to now. Oct 18 00:39:01 i hook this to it Oct 18 00:39:06 N800 is a huge step up over the 770 Oct 18 00:39:06 for net Oct 18 00:39:10 Especially for $230 Oct 18 00:39:28 hmm Oct 18 00:39:43 * x2-tablet checks if hes a tech nerd Oct 18 00:39:52 !t Oct 18 00:40:07 !temp Oct 18 00:40:07 [HD1:: 32 C HD2:: 32 C Core 0:: 32 C Core 1:: 32 C Core 2:: 28 C Core 3:: 28 C] Oct 18 00:40:13 yep, tech nerd Oct 18 00:40:34 I think that maybe the fact that the N800 will be running IT2008 might be enough for me to justify the cost. Oct 18 00:40:43 And stay current for some time to come. Oct 18 00:40:51 it will? Oct 18 00:41:29 IT2008 Hacker Edition Oct 18 00:41:30 I haven't purchased a tablet yet, thankfully. I won't feel bad when I purchase an 810. Oct 18 00:41:31 Nokia's stated several times that the N800 will at least get Chinook (IT2008) and Diablo (IT 2009?). Oct 18 00:41:40 :D Oct 18 00:41:43 wow.. Oct 18 00:41:45 Ar-ras: Maybe. Oct 18 00:41:45 very nice Oct 18 00:41:51 !stat Oct 18 00:41:57 !cpu Oct 18 00:41:59 Pc Info:: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 [Speed:: 3.60 GHz | 1.46 | 400 * 9 | 8MB (0% Load)] [Memory::Used: 1256/4094MB @ ddr2 800 | 3-3-3-6 2.2v] [HD1:: 32 C HD2:: 32 C Core 0:: 32 C Core 1:: 32 C Core 2:: 28 C Core 3:: 28 C] Oct 18 00:42:03 lolz Oct 18 00:42:39 does somebody tried to connect bt-mouse with the N800? Oct 18 00:42:48 i dont think you can Oct 18 00:42:49 It wont pair. Oct 18 00:42:52 there is no cursor Oct 18 00:42:56 Yes, there is Oct 18 00:43:05 there is no cursor Oct 18 00:43:09 er Oct 18 00:43:10 sorry Oct 18 00:43:11 The cursor is still used even if you can't usually see it. Oct 18 00:43:15 there is?* Oct 18 00:43:18 Yep. Oct 18 00:43:21 nice Oct 18 00:43:34 why should it not pair GeneralAntilles ? Oct 18 00:43:42 it uses HID-Profile Oct 18 00:43:47 If you get X very busy, you'll see the watch cursor on the last place you touched the screen. Oct 18 00:43:48 like BT-Keyboards Oct 18 00:43:50 N800 expects a key, mouse doesn't. Oct 18 00:43:57 Doesn't work. Oct 18 00:43:58 Dunno why. Oct 18 00:44:02 tried? Oct 18 00:44:28 lol zerojay i noticed that Oct 18 00:44:30 Yes. Oct 18 00:44:46 which vendor/model? Oct 18 00:44:50 If you click and drag around then, you'll see it's a real cursor. ;P Oct 18 00:45:00 lol Oct 18 00:45:06 i just didnt think you could use it Oct 18 00:45:22 x2-tablet Oct 18 00:45:30 in scummvm we have a cursor :D Oct 18 00:45:41 There's no real technical reason why it can't be used as far as I know. Oct 18 00:45:42 :p Oct 18 00:46:09 i want a bt mouse now lol Oct 18 00:46:14 wow beautiful hi-res animations of 810 here http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=home Oct 18 00:46:15 wait, why? Oct 18 00:46:37 I hope that I get next week the BT-Keyboard Oct 18 00:46:46 <_Monkey> maybe is a good idea Oct 18 00:46:58 then typing in university would be possible ;) Oct 18 00:47:05 lol Oct 18 00:47:08 im doing that now Oct 18 00:47:13 its fun Oct 18 00:47:18 thumbmode sucks ;) Oct 18 00:47:21 other people have their lappys Oct 18 00:47:23 and i have this Oct 18 00:47:27 :) Oct 18 00:47:42 what is the little box on the nokia headphones for 810 - an fm radio? Oct 18 00:47:48 tried first day the sketch-mode Oct 18 00:47:55 lol Oct 18 00:48:02 Headset, pupnik. Oct 18 00:48:04 Mic, etc. Oct 18 00:48:10 ah ty Oct 18 00:48:19 we need a teamspeak port... Oct 18 00:48:22 badly Oct 18 00:48:43 x2-tablet what are you studying? Oct 18 00:48:57 just business now Oct 18 00:48:58 dude we need webcam support Oct 18 00:49:02 at a local school Oct 18 00:49:12 webcam would own lol Oct 18 00:49:14 the webcam is crappy Oct 18 00:49:22 but it is now so useless Oct 18 00:49:37 i dont even have one Oct 18 00:49:40 :/ Oct 18 00:49:54 like Nelson says Oct 18 00:49:57 haha Oct 18 00:52:06 I think today's been a good day. Oct 18 00:52:14 Nokia announces the N810... Oct 18 00:52:27 Capcom announces Street Fighter 4. Oct 18 00:52:47 "Contributors" will be able to get the N810 at a discount. Oct 18 00:52:52 Not just developers. Oct 18 00:53:10 News on that coming tomorrow, apparently. Oct 18 00:53:16 http://digg.com/gadgets/Hi_res_demo_of_the_Nokia_810_Sexy_meets_linux_for_relevant_to_my_interest Oct 18 00:54:01 For all the negative stuff said on ITT about it, I'm hearing nothing but "sexy" all over the place about it from blogs and other people. Oct 18 00:55:18 I don't know if anyone looked back at the prototype pictures since this was announced, but it's clear in the prototype that the three side buttons on the left side are totally missing. Not that they aren't designed, but it looks like they were just not physically put in. Oct 18 00:55:18 ITT is a mean place. Oct 18 00:55:30 They're cynical because they care. Oct 18 00:55:38 I just wish it wasn't to such a degree. Oct 18 00:55:57 Honestly, it sometimes sours me on the tablets. Oct 18 00:57:09 i'm immune to it. there are no competitors for me. Oct 18 00:57:25 Me either. Oct 18 00:57:36 Nothing else quite interests me like the tablets do. Oct 18 00:57:43 :) Oct 18 00:57:56 It's like the perfect mobile device. Oct 18 00:58:05 I like buying products and not seeing a Windows logo. Oct 18 00:58:07 I'm so glad I bought the 770 when it was released. Oct 18 00:58:21 i just showed it to an 80 year old schoolteacher and she was "ok i can see why this is exciting" Oct 18 00:58:24 I wanted a 770 so bad for so long. Oct 18 00:58:37 See, I originally just wanted something to let me IM people wherever I was. Oct 18 00:58:45 Except without a phone and monthly charges. Oct 18 00:58:53 I bought a ZipIt Wireless Messenger. Oct 18 00:58:55 Also Linux. Oct 18 00:59:02 It worked... but nothing special. Oct 18 00:59:13 hmm Oct 18 00:59:16 (They just released a new version this month, much cooler.) Oct 18 00:59:27 i connect this to my razr and do that lol Oct 18 00:59:29 When I saw the 770... I wanted it bad. Oct 18 00:59:48 kinda am right now.. Oct 18 00:59:51 but im on wifi Oct 18 01:00:04 I finally had the cash.. but it wasn't being sold in Canada. I just got my company to buy it for me at the Nokia store in NYC and shipped it up to me. Oct 18 01:00:37 So people here were a little confused when we got a package with a few Samsungs, a Nokia or two and I swiped mine and went to my desk. Oct 18 01:01:02 :) do you ever get to montreal? Oct 18 01:01:06 "We didn't put it into our inventory yet!" "That's because it's *MINE*!" Oct 18 01:01:16 HAHA Oct 18 01:01:27 Ha Oct 18 01:01:34 It's been a while since I visited Montreal. Planning on going down there for Christmas and visiting my family. Oct 18 01:01:54 Pack up the wife and kid and head on down the road for 2 1/2 hours. Oct 18 01:01:57 best meal i ever ate was in montreal - Fierrera, the portueguese sea bass in port wine sauce Oct 18 01:02:03 Never tried it. Oct 18 01:02:08 lol Oct 18 01:02:27 When I was there last, I think I blew up my mother's mind when I showed her the N800. Oct 18 01:02:36 She barely has a concept of what internet is. Oct 18 01:02:48 She just knows it's popular and has lots of stuff on it. Oct 18 01:02:51 And naked people. Oct 18 01:02:57 I GOT THE SPELLING WRONG, SORRY Oct 18 01:03:00 lmao Oct 18 01:03:08 oops caps Oct 18 01:03:17 Haha Oct 18 01:03:28 I showed the stuff I was able to do with my N800 and she looked like she was about to cry. Oct 18 01:03:39 "It's like a wonderful magic box!" Oct 18 01:03:43 lol no kidding Oct 18 01:03:47 awesoem Oct 18 01:03:48 "Yes, ma... it is." Oct 18 01:03:52 i need a teamspeak port!! Oct 18 01:04:00 Is teamspeak open source? Oct 18 01:04:03 Ha, my mother has an iPhone. >_> Oct 18 01:04:07 i dont think so Oct 18 01:04:12 not sure Oct 18 01:04:13 No port then. Oct 18 01:04:14 mumble Oct 18 01:04:16 vent Oct 18 01:04:19 any of them Oct 18 01:04:25 Vent is defintely not open source. Oct 18 01:04:27 mumble is on sourceforge Oct 18 01:04:32 mumble would be what you'd be most likely to get on Maemo. Oct 18 01:04:36 zerojay: i'm curious to hear what you've done to bugzilla and any things you've encountered while using it. also whatever version are you using, and what you've enabled :) Oct 18 01:04:38 hrm Oct 18 01:04:41 would be nice Oct 18 01:04:52 timeless: Here or in msg? Oct 18 01:04:55 it's cafe Ferreira, sorry - it's pricey food though, and you might need to reserve a couple of weeks in advance Oct 18 01:05:27 it's a bit offtopic here :| Oct 18 01:06:40 Hi everyone! I've got a strange problem with mplayer: some avi files run fine without any special recoding, and some don't. Are there any ways of fixing it? Maybe downloading some codecs for mplayer or somethinh? Oct 18 01:07:52 iva1: the biggest performance problem is resolution. if you transcode them to 240 pixels high, pretty much any codec is playable Oct 18 01:08:27 I'm still looking for a reasonable solution to on-demand on-the-fly transcoding. Oct 18 01:08:54 Yes, but it takes a lot ofmtime... What's max resolution mplayer can play? Oct 18 01:09:02 try ¨super¨ Oct 18 01:09:30 GeneralAntilles: knots can do it now Oct 18 01:09:51 iva1, you're going to have to reencode just about everything to have it run smoothly on the N800. Oct 18 01:09:55 pupnik: linky? Oct 18 01:10:52 knots? Oct 18 01:11:10 hmm it's in early development i guess Oct 18 01:11:18 my old link is broken Oct 18 01:11:35 Hehe, well, google gives me a lot o finfo about tying them. :P Oct 18 01:13:24 i haven't used it for that yet though - just streaming vids from pc Oct 18 01:14:32 i guess mediaconverter is still the way to go Oct 18 01:14:52 Does anyone know how I can get kagu to play music via bluetooth A2DP? Oct 18 01:15:14 I was thinking about just rolling something with PHP and vlc since there don't seem to be any pre-built solutions out there that aren't Windows-based. Oct 18 01:15:14 last i checked n800 doesn't ship w/ a2dp ... Oct 18 01:17:56 timeless: instructions are here: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu Oct 18 01:18:30 my thinkpad hates my 770 Oct 18 01:19:21 They gonna fight? :P Oct 18 01:19:59 was just looking at feeling sorry for it :| Oct 18 01:20:45 think i'll call it 'wheezy' (toy story) Oct 18 01:20:49 Ha Oct 18 01:21:01 The Thinkpad or the 770? :P Oct 18 01:21:13 thinkpad - hasn't been out in 11 months Oct 18 01:23:26 any word on if n810 improves video bandwidth? Oct 18 01:23:40 Seems unlikely. Oct 18 01:24:08 i think the main goal is not adding too many regressions :) Oct 18 01:24:28 If only the N810 came in Dvorak. Oct 18 01:25:09 you can do that on the screen Oct 18 01:25:11 I'm sure Oct 18 01:25:24 suck it up and type qwerty when you're mobile Oct 18 01:25:52 Hehe, I'd just about eliminated that necessity by no longer working retail. ;) Oct 18 01:26:30 Brings up an interesting point, is there any way to change the on-screen layout on the N800? Oct 18 01:26:33 it's not like you're going to be able to make use of the dvorak's inward stroke or right domanance shit on a handheld Oct 18 01:26:39 you can use a bluetooth keyboard anyways Oct 18 01:26:46 good luck with getting it in dvorak Oct 18 01:27:11 Wonder if anybody has designed a thumb-appropriate layout. Oct 18 01:27:25 me? my hands have a lack of fucking nerve endings, they don't listen fast enough, so I can type fast with a qwerty but I don't think that dvorak would help me speed up Oct 18 01:27:41 it's called a keypad Oct 18 01:28:13 it wouldn't make any difference Oct 18 01:28:24 people would just get confused and it wouldn't speed shit up Oct 18 01:28:27 I only hope my 770 isn't too wimpy to play A2DP music. Oct 18 01:28:30 also, what about people with large thumbs Oct 18 01:28:35 My thumbs are huge! Oct 18 01:28:42 bmidgley: the video bandwith issues are tied to the processor and since that is the same... expect the same issues Oct 18 01:28:53 crap Oct 18 01:29:01 bleh Oct 18 01:29:07 hes still talking Oct 18 01:29:10 I just realized I was in #maemo Oct 18 01:29:14 T_T Oct 18 01:29:16 ill be back soon Oct 18 01:29:17 sorry about that Oct 18 01:30:53 and here I was hoping I'd be able to avoid my monologues Oct 18 01:30:59 but NOOO Oct 18 01:31:07 It's funny, wherever you go, there you are. Oct 18 01:31:13 well, people are stupid Oct 18 01:31:18 and I have little patience Oct 18 01:31:32 and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fenc. Oct 18 01:31:34 e+ Oct 18 01:31:35 me? my fingers are stupid Oct 18 01:31:36 yeah Oct 18 01:31:41 not here Oct 18 01:31:47 my grass is as green as green Oct 18 01:32:11 I wouldn't mind winning the lottery, cause then it'd be so green it'd be fucking bluegreen Oct 18 01:33:04 and shapr, I finally get that "wherever you go, there you are" statement Oct 18 01:33:08 can't escape who you are Oct 18 01:33:14 unless that's not what it's supposed to mean Oct 18 01:33:54 well, that's my introduction, "Hi, my name is Tb0n3, and I'm a monologuer." Oct 18 01:34:32 sounds like a persoal problem Oct 18 01:35:37 nah, I'm happy with who I am, I could do with a better attention span, more drive, but hey, I am who I am, and that's who I am Oct 18 01:35:59 if I wasn't so lazy I'd be even smarter than I am Oct 18 01:36:02 but I'm not Oct 18 01:36:16 I'm fucking autistic, if that has anything to do with it Oct 18 01:36:19 Aspergers Oct 18 01:36:25 pronounced like "assburgers" Oct 18 01:36:38 it means I like to draw Oct 18 01:36:39 ha Oct 18 01:36:44 I'm corny Oct 18 01:36:50 not horny Oct 18 01:37:03 sounds drunk to me Oct 18 01:37:10 it's fun to talk to everybody at once, just expressing your own thought process Oct 18 01:37:15 lets people really know who you are Oct 18 01:37:31 and no, no drinks in me Oct 18 01:37:37 I had sierra mist at dinner Oct 18 01:37:45 not none of them alcohols Oct 18 01:37:53 lol Oct 18 01:37:53 * GeneralAntilles pokes the monologer in the ribs with a sharpened stick. Oct 18 01:37:58 ow Oct 18 01:38:03 Let's see if I killed the sound on my 770 with this a2dp stuff... Oct 18 01:38:03 * shapr hopes it works! Oct 18 01:38:06 you spelt it wrong Oct 18 01:38:32 I like how the 770 is immortal Oct 18 01:39:02 * shapr starts up kagu and hopes for a bluetooth icon Oct 18 01:39:09 * shapr waits........ Oct 18 01:39:28 * shapr waits more Oct 18 01:39:40 uh oh Oct 18 01:39:49 * shapr is still waiting. Oct 18 01:39:56 uh. Oct 18 01:39:57 oh yes! I have the icon! Oct 18 01:40:25 hi disq, I apologize for the mess, I just can't help who I ams Oct 18 01:40:32 sup? Oct 18 01:40:46 * shapr bounces cheerfully Oct 18 01:40:50 lol Oct 18 01:41:06 Thanatermesis: ? been keeping a distance lately? Or too busy? Oct 18 01:45:24 * pupnik looks a thumb Oct 18 01:45:39 * pupnik tries to imagine pressing 'up' on the 810 dped :/ Oct 18 01:46:46 pj gpd Oct 18 01:46:48 err Oct 18 01:46:49 oh god Oct 18 01:48:00 Hopefully Nokia will make some better ergonomic decisions for the N900 Oct 18 01:48:55 flash9 is great Oct 18 01:51:10 well the guys in finnland aren't koreans. the dpad must work with fat thumbs Oct 18 01:51:42 heh Oct 18 01:51:53 you're assuming it works Oct 18 01:52:04 but yeah, they aren't micro dpads Oct 18 01:56:05 btw in this video you can see the device standing up on table with kbd extended http://www.maemoapps.com/ Oct 18 01:59:36 and it's all one big / Oct 18 02:02:31 the car holder + gps will hopefully generate a lot of sales/interest Oct 18 02:03:47 Yeah, I think the biggest think the early adopters are getting out of this hardware upgrade is the (potentially) increased user-base. Oct 18 02:04:08 <|R> pupnik : does that mean the bluetooth headset will be supported on n800 ? :D Oct 18 02:04:17 <|R> pupnik : (talking about first video) Oct 18 02:04:40 i dunno bout all that Oct 18 02:05:08 i bet that's reggie from ITT's kid holding the 810 in the pic Oct 18 02:05:09 hmm Oct 18 02:05:21 Lucky bastard. :P Oct 18 02:05:37 http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ Oct 18 02:05:41 need a port of that Oct 18 02:05:45 id freak out Oct 18 02:05:48 : Oct 18 02:05:49 :/ Oct 18 02:05:59 Ha, what's wrong with Gizmo or Skype? Oct 18 02:06:23 free.. Oct 18 02:06:24 <_Monkey> free is probably 2972 Oct 18 02:06:31 like Oct 18 02:06:35 _monkey forget free Oct 18 02:06:35 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot free Oct 18 02:06:39 multiple people chatting Oct 18 02:06:42 _monkey free is Oct 18 02:06:42 <_Monkey> OK, timeless. Oct 18 02:06:50 Gizmo is free for Gizme-to-Gizmo Oct 18 02:06:56 and you can do conferences through it. Oct 18 02:07:16 do I even have that? Oct 18 02:07:16 did anybody figure out if charging through usb is possible on 810? Oct 18 02:07:21 or is a download Oct 18 02:07:25 It's a download Oct 18 02:07:29 ah Oct 18 02:07:55 i just prefer server - client Oct 18 02:08:00 over any kind of calling Oct 18 02:08:00 http://www.gizmoproject.com/download.php Oct 18 02:08:05 or having to register Oct 18 02:08:05 It's at the bottom there. Oct 18 02:08:11 Well, get to porting. :P Oct 18 02:08:15 lol Oct 18 02:08:57 time to install hacker 07 on my mms Oct 18 02:09:01 maybe.. Oct 18 02:09:02 <_Monkey> maybe is a good idea Oct 18 02:09:08 lol Oct 18 02:09:10 _monkey forget maybe Oct 18 02:09:11 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot maybe Oct 18 02:09:12 SpamBot! Oct 18 02:09:15 lmfao Oct 18 02:09:18 _monkey maybe is Oct 18 02:09:18 <_Monkey> OK, timeless. Oct 18 02:09:26 maybe Oct 18 02:09:29 :/ Oct 18 02:10:07 <|R> http://www.gizmoproject.com/learnmore-nokia800.html Oct 18 02:10:08 <|R> hehe Oct 18 02:21:51 well Oct 18 02:21:59 now I've got me CS2 again Oct 18 02:22:08 wonder if I'll ever really have a need for photoshop Oct 18 02:49:37 has anyone been able to get wireless broadband to work over any of the nokia internet tablets through usb? Oct 18 02:50:05 I have a sprint usb broadband card and wonder if I can use it. I know the 770 has issues with power to the usb port or something, do the newer models have the same issue? Oct 18 02:51:15 I have no idea on that one Oct 18 02:51:21 that would be crazy though Oct 18 02:52:00 USB wireless has three problems: drivers, power and host-mode. Oct 18 02:52:06 Bluetooth tethering is the way to go. Oct 18 02:52:13 :) Oct 18 02:53:38 Heh. I guess that is a possibility. Oct 18 02:54:58 Ugh, does the pdf reader load the entire pdf to the ram or does it read on the fly? Oct 18 02:55:12 Because I cannot read my 20m pdf. Oct 18 02:55:13 loads fonts and stuff Oct 18 02:55:16 easy to verify, no? Oct 18 02:55:18 But can't people hop on my internet when I'm using bluetooth to talk to the devices? I never used bluetooth, so I'm not sure of how it works. Oct 18 02:55:24 which os release? Oct 18 02:55:42 no tdb30__ Oct 18 02:55:48 it's a secured connection Oct 18 02:56:01 you find the phone that's broadcasting itself Oct 18 02:56:08 then you connect to the phone with a pin number Oct 18 02:56:24 then on the phone you enter that number and create the connection Oct 18 02:56:36 then you can use your data plan or a dialup Oct 18 02:57:06 that answer your question? Oct 18 02:59:05 good morning everyone(~ugt) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 18 02:59:57 2007