**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 20 02:59:56 2007
Oct 20 04:50:59 <disq> maemopad+ chinook build ready in extras repo if anybody's interested
Oct 20 04:51:00 <disq> and night
Oct 20 05:34:34 <czr> mornink
Oct 20 05:50:57 <rene4jazz> hi all
Oct 20 05:51:45 <rene4jazz> how can I install libhildonwidgets.so
Oct 20 05:51:47 <rene4jazz> _
Oct 20 05:51:48 <rene4jazz> ?
Oct 20 05:53:34 <rene4jazz> Oh, sorry I all ready have it in the target
Oct 20 05:53:41 <zoran> :)
Oct 20 05:54:12 <czr> that's akin to asking "how do I install libc.so"?
Oct 20 05:54:19 <rene4jazz> I'm starting to know laika eclipse plugin for scratchbox development
Oct 20 05:54:19 <czr> always raises a brow or two :-)
Oct 20 05:54:54 <czr> someone actually uses eclipse for maemo development?
Oct 20 05:55:18 <zerojay> Oooh.. you poor bastard.
Oct 20 05:55:45 <rene4jazz> I'm a eclipse C developer, I'll try to setup de enviroment for maemo
Oct 20 05:55:58 <rene4jazz> de = the
Oct 20 05:56:09 <czr> rene4jazz, you develop eclipse? or use eclipse for C development?
Oct 20 05:56:34 <rene4jazz> the last one (use eclipse for C development)
Oct 20 05:56:43 <czr> ok. thought so :-)
Oct 20 05:56:52 <zoran> have enough room on 770/800?
Oct 20 05:57:17 <zoran> scratchbox?
Oct 20 05:57:18 <_Monkey> scratchbox is a cross-compilation toolkit for maemo application development.  Homepage: http://www.scratchbox.org/   Maemo 3.x (bora/N800) tutorial: http://qurl.org/yN  Maemo 2.2 (gregale/770) tutorial: http://qurl.org/zN  A walkthrough for 3.x: http://qurl.org/0O  Scratchbox Downloads: http://qurl.org/1O
Oct 20 05:57:31 <rene4jazz> sorry for my poor english, it is not my mother language
Oct 20 05:58:58 <rene4jazz> some one here uses eclipse for maemo development to?
Oct 20 05:59:29 <czr> rene4jazz, you are the first person I know that does :-). that's why I asked
Oct 20 05:59:39 <czr> but maybe someone does too. /me shrugs
Oct 20 06:00:13 <zoran> rene4jazz, what would you like to develop for maemo?
Oct 20 06:01:08 <rene4jazz> I'm developing a SCADA application (Supervisory Control and Data Adquisition...bla bla)
Oct 20 06:01:55 <rene4jazz> and I want to build a port of the hmi module (hmi -> Human Machine Interface)
Oct 20 06:02:56 <rene4jazz> the current desktop version uses gtk 2.10 i we use libcairo extensively for the mimics
Oct 20 06:05:54 <rene4jazz> but in the n770 we can not use libcairo because of the lack of FP capability of the ARM processor of nokia has.
Oct 20 06:06:35 <zoran> something like avocent remote manager?
Oct 20 06:07:24 <rene4jazz> I dont know what is "avocent"
Oct 20 06:07:45 <zoran> handheld device, that manages remote nodes
Oct 20 06:07:57 <zoran> looks like tv remote
Oct 20 06:08:10 <zoran> neve saw it with my eyes, frankly
Oct 20 06:08:25 <rene4jazz> a sort of
Oct 20 06:08:41 <zoran> could be a valuable project
Oct 20 06:08:52 <zoran> spite I use ssh to do the same
Oct 20 06:09:18 <rene4jazz> siemens have something like that
Oct 20 06:09:34 <zoran> how much could it cost
Oct 20 06:09:36 <rene4jazz> is for industrial appliances
Oct 20 06:10:14 <rene4jazz> I dont know
Oct 20 06:10:26 <zoran> some folks on this list use sshfs for data approach
Oct 20 06:11:50 <rene4jazz> If any one is interested on developing with eclipse take a look at: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~laika/screenshots.shtml
Oct 20 06:12:18 <rene4jazz> I'm taking now my first steps
Oct 20 06:13:28 <zoran> the very first match on google  :)
Oct 20 06:22:10 <czr> zoran, and the only one? :-)
Oct 20 06:22:35 <zoran> :)
Oct 20 06:23:01 <czr> damn, your nick reminds me of one analog TV-capture chip which did MJPEG compression
Oct 20 06:23:08 <czr> zoran 1100 or smt like that
Oct 20 06:23:21 * czr has fond memories of that chip
Oct 20 06:23:31 <zoran> I don't show my metal extensions to the world
Oct 20 06:23:43 <czr> safer that way, for sure :-)
Oct 20 06:23:48 <zoran> :-)
Oct 20 06:24:35 <zoran> readu to buy new 810 in fi?
Oct 20 06:25:08 <czr> I need to test the keyboard first. make my decision after that. and I'm too busy to think about buying anything right now, maybe in couple of weeks
Oct 20 06:25:43 <zoran> keyboard may be over, if it has to go in and out
Oct 20 06:25:55 <zoran> do it 100 times
Oct 20 06:25:57 <czr> otoh, I've bought all the previous models at least once, so I see why not :-)
Oct 20 06:26:12 <zoran> hey, just 2 of them
Oct 20 06:26:36 <czr> considering that I don't actually use them for anything, it's 2 too many :-)
Oct 20 06:26:37 <zoran> btw, I don't see a lot my favorite apps on 800
Oct 20 06:26:48 <zoran> he-he
Oct 20 06:26:51 <czr> yeah, seems a lot of sw is stagnating
Oct 20 06:27:05 <zoran> nothing for command line users on n800
Oct 20 06:27:12 <zoran> so screen
Oct 20 06:27:13 <czr> osso-xterm ftw
Oct 20 06:27:35 <zoran> I know, xterm, but no mutt etc
Oct 20 06:27:43 <zoran> lemme check now
Oct 20 06:28:06 <czr> maybe the situation will improve once chinook comes out for the N800
Oct 20 06:28:07 <czr> maybe
Oct 20 06:28:21 <zoran> probably not
Oct 20 06:28:33 <czr> unless someone does something about it
Oct 20 06:28:37 <zoran> if you have 12 years, you will like music and video and...
Oct 20 06:28:49 <czr> have 12 years?
Oct 20 06:28:54 <zoran> not me  :)
Oct 20 06:28:58 <zoran> no mutt for 800
Oct 20 06:29:17 <czr> have 12 years causes syntax error in my filological unit. please provide more data.
Oct 20 06:29:44 <zoran> 10010010100101010100001010101
Oct 20 06:30:16 <czr> yarrr, no synchronization bits!
Oct 20 06:30:25 <kala> I installed http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ on a ITOS 2007 HE running on 770 and now the "Web browser" gets "Internal error. Application Web closed". Can I run it from shell or with strace or how to find out whats wrong?
Oct 20 06:30:51 <zoran> I am aware that it is not bug free; so I don't have it
Oct 20 06:31:16 <zoran> personaly, I would like just x and simple window manager
Oct 20 06:31:26 <zoran> liek fvwm or evilwm
Oct 20 06:31:50 <czr> matchbox on the device is as simple as a wm can get btw
Oct 20 06:32:07 <zoran> k, if I remove osso and hildon...
Oct 20 06:32:12 <czr> heh
Oct 20 06:32:16 <zoran> no netcat and no nmap for 800
Oct 20 06:32:27 <czr> zoran, why don't you build them?
Oct 20 06:32:31 <czr> they're trivial to build
Oct 20 06:32:43 <zoran> I have no spare box for linux in my room
Oct 20 06:32:51 <czr> hmm. you want me to build them for you?
Oct 20 06:32:56 <czr> I could use some break from my real work
Oct 20 06:33:02 <zoran> no, I just have 770 and it works fine
Oct 20 06:33:14 <czr> damn. I really could've used the break :-)
Oct 20 06:33:38 <zoran> if somebody could help me, would think about firewall
Oct 20 06:33:57 <czr> that'd require rebuilding the kernel afaik
Oct 20 06:34:05 <zoran> I never feel happy and save without
Oct 20 06:34:09 <zoran> *safe
Oct 20 06:34:34 <zoran> hm, maybe adding module for nat and conntrack couldbe enough
Oct 20 06:34:53 <czr> I don't think netfilter is included at all, let me check
Oct 20 06:35:06 <zoran> it is!
Oct 20 06:36:13 <czr> ah no. indeed. there are /proc/net/ip_tables_{matches,names,targets}
Oct 20 06:36:19 <czr> my mistake
Oct 20 06:36:53 <zoran> it has it's role to stop traffic from and to the box
Oct 20 06:37:14 <zoran> but just in stateless mode
Oct 20 06:37:21 <zoran> I tried it
Oct 20 06:37:24 <zoran> and works
Oct 20 06:37:45 <zoran> also takes imput file to work as rule set
Oct 20 06:37:46 <czr> sure, I know netfilter, just didn't know it was enabled in the device kernel
Oct 20 06:37:52 <czr> which one?
Oct 20 06:37:53 <zoran> :)
Oct 20 06:37:53 <_Monkey> somebody said which one was it? :)
Oct 20 06:38:04 <zoran> ah, 3.2006.49-2
Oct 20 06:38:09 <czr> stfu _Monkey
Oct 20 06:38:12 <zoran> lemme fire it up
Oct 20 06:38:24 <czr> I'm running 2007 here though
Oct 20 06:38:38 <zoran> 2.6 something
Oct 20 06:38:47 <zoran> needs time
Oct 20 06:38:47 <czr> no. I meant which file does it read
Oct 20 06:39:06 <czr> on the device. for the packet rules.
Oct 20 06:39:06 <zoran> I made my own to start from rc2.d
Oct 20 06:39:13 <czr> ah. so it doesn't by default.
Oct 20 06:39:14 <zoran> and lives in init.d
Oct 20 06:39:21 <zoran> not now
Oct 20 06:39:27 <czr> I thought you meant by default :-)
Oct 20 06:39:31 <zoran> after fail, I removed it in furiosity
Oct 20 06:40:09 <zoran> not as default, it was some nokia way to hide it
Oct 20 06:40:24 <zoran> it works, maybe the name is different
Oct 20 06:40:35 <zoran> however, it is up and ready to listen
Oct 20 06:41:04 <zoran> and I had an issue with --state
Oct 20 06:41:23 <rene4jazz> zora: do you know what is the "osso_initialize failed." message when I execute a binary?
Oct 20 06:41:24 <zoran> then I got he light it was not built with nat and conntrack
Oct 20 06:42:11 <zoran> rene4jazz, not sure, but sounds like graphics are not up cause come mistake in start up call
Oct 20 06:42:25 <czr> rene4jazz, are you running it in the SDK or the device?
Oct 20 06:42:32 <rene4jazz> SDK
Oct 20 06:42:42 <czr> if in SDK, you need to run it with "run-standalone.sh ./name-of-app"
Oct 20 06:42:56 <rene4jazz> I have the xephyr up and running on :2 display
Oct 20 06:43:09 <czr> ossoinit binds to the D-Bus, and that won't work without proper env vars, which are setup by run-standalone.sh
Oct 20 06:43:28 <rene4jazz> ok, I'll see
Oct 20 06:43:55 <czr> also, do you have AF running?
Oct 20 06:44:02 <czr> af-sb-init start? did you do that?
Oct 20 06:44:03 <rene4jazz> nop
Oct 20 06:44:10 <czr> ah. you need to start the AF in the SDK
Oct 20 06:44:35 <rene4jazz> segfault
Oct 20 06:44:36 <_Monkey> i guess segfault is from trying to get listings
Oct 20 06:44:37 <czr> that will start the d-bus daemons and the task navigator and all that (on xephyr, if your DISPLAY is set correctly)
Oct 20 06:44:39 <rene4jazz> ups
Oct 20 06:44:48 <rene4jazz> :-/
Oct 20 06:44:53 <czr> segfault in which step?
Oct 20 06:44:59 <rene4jazz> af
Oct 20 06:45:02 <rene4jazz> starting af
Oct 20 06:45:05 <rene4jazz> wait
Oct 20 06:45:16 <rene4jazz> i have to do some clean up first
Oct 20 06:45:18 <zoran> czr, kernel is 2.6.16.rel-osso29
Oct 20 06:45:22 <czr> your SDK is not setup correctly most likely. which SDK version are you using?
Oct 20 06:45:33 <czr> zoran, and that helps what and how? :-)
Oct 20 06:45:43 <zoran> dunno  :)
Oct 20 06:45:48 <czr> ok :-)
Oct 20 06:46:31 <czr> zoran, you might want to get the kernel source at some point. at least for n800. not sure about 770, how it works
Oct 20 06:46:32 <zoran> what do you think about packet injection on maemo?
Oct 20 06:46:44 <czr> depends on what you mean by packet injection, and maemo.
Oct 20 06:46:58 <zoran> open port making outboud connection
Oct 20 06:47:16 <zoran> should be trivial to find port and address
Oct 20 06:47:41 <czr> err. I'm not following. what does opening outbound connections have to do with packet injection?
Oct 20 06:47:48 <rene4jazz> it works!!!, :-D, i have my first example, compiled up and running
Oct 20 06:47:56 <czr> rene4jazz, good for you :-)
Oct 20 06:47:59 <zoran> \o/
Oct 20 06:48:39 <zoran> czr, if you know headers, you could pretend to be server that responds
Oct 20 06:49:20 <czr> zoran, you'd need to do MAC-spoofing first
Oct 20 06:49:30 <zoran> if protocols does not memorize the session, to me it looks dead duck
Oct 20 06:49:35 <czr> unless you're trying to spoof client programs running on the device
Oct 20 06:49:52 <czr> but what's the point?
Oct 20 06:49:53 <_Monkey> the point is to make the user happy
Oct 20 06:49:57 <zoran> mac spoofing is easy
Oct 20 06:50:14 <czr> I mean, what would one achieve with this that isn't already possible with proper tools, and why on maemo?
Oct 20 06:50:31 <zoran> only maemo has no firewall
Oct 20 06:50:43 <czr> and that has what to do with this?
Oct 20 06:50:46 <zoran> did you use device in public?
Oct 20 06:51:05 <czr> firewalls don't protect against mac spoofing or other stuff happening outside your device
Oct 20 06:51:08 <zoran> I'm scared to connect public ap
Oct 20 06:51:14 <czr> then don't connect.
Oct 20 06:51:26 <zoran> :)
Oct 20 06:51:34 <mik_> or use a vpn
Oct 20 06:51:37 <czr> the device _does_ have 'offline mode'
Oct 20 06:51:46 <zoran> k, mac spoofing stops then the next packet misses the line
Oct 20 06:52:30 <zoran> ah, yes, I disable wifi out home net
Oct 20 06:54:12 <zoran> folks, duty calls! bbl
Oct 20 06:54:37 * zoran gone to talk to dragons about free fire usage
Oct 20 07:10:55 <ticapix> morning
Oct 20 07:10:56 <_Monkey> aloha
Oct 20 07:12:47 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Oct 20 07:18:24 <tom0006> morning
Oct 20 07:18:24 <_Monkey> aloha
Oct 20 07:42:26 <rene4jazz> can I use sdl with openGL support on n770?
Oct 20 07:43:25 <czr> rene4jazz, no
Oct 20 07:43:32 <czr> you can use sdl. you can't use opengl
Oct 20 07:43:50 <czr> hey jaffa
Oct 20 07:49:10 <rene4jazz> I saw a screenshot of blender ported to nokia
Oct 20 07:50:56 <czr> consider the device doesn't have a FPU, never mind 3D acceleration, why on earth would you want to?
Oct 20 07:51:09 <czr> so yes, it is possible to get _software_ rendered opengl on the device.
Oct 20 07:52:04 <rene4jazz> I know it has no FP unit, I just want to know how they did it
Oct 20 07:52:15 <czr> swmesa reference renderer
Oct 20 07:52:20 <czr> aka very very slowly.
Oct 20 07:53:19 <rene4jazz> I looking at plutohome package on garage.maemo.org
Oct 20 07:53:48 <rene4jazz> it has xlibmesa-glu-nokia770_arm.deb package as dependece
Oct 20 07:54:08 <czr> right. glu != opengl though.
Oct 20 07:54:29 <czr> or rather, glu is just one part of it.
Oct 20 07:54:40 <rene4jazz> and xlibmesa?
Oct 20 07:55:12 <czr> xlibmesa above is where the implementation of glu comes from (the mesa project in this case, which is part of xorg nowadays AFAIK)
Oct 20 07:55:33 <rene4jazz> roger that, thank's
Oct 20 07:55:42 <czr> there can be other implementations of GLU on other systems, the mesa one is the most common on linux desktops
Oct 20 07:56:13 <czr> glu just a bunch of utility functions which are useful to most opengl programs. it is not the complete opengl, and specifically, does not contain any of the gl_ functions (only glu_ ones)
Oct 20 07:56:31 <czr> glu needs a proper libgl to run as well.
Oct 20 08:30:42 <tom006> is flash working on the os2007 he ?
Oct 20 09:25:36 <_|Nix|_> Aaaarrgh! I'm tryingf to set up a new /scratchbox for Chinook, and it keeps thinking it's arm, not armel ... grrrrr!
Oct 20 09:39:46 <kala> I'm following the http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ instructions, but why are two partitions (VFAT and Ext2) needed?
Oct 20 09:40:16 <kala> if I don't plan to use this MMC on Windows PC, then I could just use one large Ext2 part?
Oct 20 09:41:55 <konttori> hey, just thought to let you guys know that fceu works on n810
Oct 20 09:42:34 <czr> konttori, cool. lardman was looking for someone with n810 btw. dmesg printouts and such.
Oct 20 09:44:19 <konttori> so, no probs in there. For n810 would be better to position A+B in place of select+start though. ... I think
Oct 20 09:44:32 <konttori> yeah. would be better
Oct 20 09:47:31 <konttori> soo... is the super nintendo emulator also running already?
Oct 20 09:55:02 <kala> ok, it seems the first partition is needed when I connect N770 to PC with USB
Oct 20 10:00:21 * Jaffa yawns
Oct 20 10:41:19 <alterego> Transflective display :) That's been a long time coming.
Oct 20 10:41:40 <ptman> is the n810 display transflective?
Oct 20 10:42:08 <ptman> I thought transflective displays were worse in low-light conditions
Oct 20 10:42:11 * _|Nix|_ doesn't even know what that is ...
Oct 20 10:42:15 <alterego> So it would appear, check out the planet
Oct 20 10:43:28 <_|Nix|_> OK, don't all briefly explain it to me at once ;o)
Oct 20 10:44:12 <alterego> It means the display is viewable in sunlight :) That would explain the light sensor.
Oct 20 10:44:43 <alterego> Should have guessed when I saw that :)
Oct 20 10:44:51 <_|Nix|_> :o)
Oct 20 10:44:53 <_|Nix|_> OK. Thanks!
Oct 20 10:45:55 <_|Nix|_> Ooooh! Cool! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective
Oct 20 10:46:29 <_|Nix|_> So, that means the display can essentially use the sun as a light source, obviating (to some extent) the need for a backlight ...
Oct 20 10:52:11 <alterego> Exactly, it also means the GPS is useable during the day time. :)
Oct 20 10:54:58 <alterego> Right, back to work ..
Oct 20 10:55:04 <_|Nix|_> alterego: Well, after thinking about it for 1.5s, I realize that, just because it has a light sensor doesn't mean that it has a transflective display. The light sensor might be there only to determine that "Oh no, he's using it in the sunlight! I better /really/ crank the backlight and murder the battery!" I sincerely hope that's not the case.
Oct 20 10:55:24 <gla55> _|Nix|_: thats how it works on nokias phones
Oct 20 10:55:29 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 10:55:44 <_|Nix|_> The N810 is not a phone ;o)
Oct 20 10:55:47 <gla55> just for determining how bright the backlight should be
Oct 20 10:56:01 <alterego> _|Nix|_, that was actually my guess. But like gla55 said, on Nokia's phones that is how they're designed. I should have drawn a more appropriate assumption because of that ;)
Oct 20 10:56:19 <suihkulokki> _|Nix|_: and setting the keypad backlight on when it's dark
Oct 20 10:56:20 <alterego> Also, dimming when it's ultra-dark.
Oct 20 10:56:27 <alterego> But obviously that's not the case :)
Oct 20 10:56:56 <_|Nix|_> OK, so no elegant harnessing-the-power-of-the-sun technology? :o(
Oct 20 10:57:38 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 10:57:43 <alterego> You mean a solar panel? ^_^
Oct 20 10:58:07 <alterego> That would be a bad idea. Direct sunlight and LCD's aren't a particularly goodmix over long periods of time.
Oct 20 10:58:18 <GeneralAntilles> I want an oveclocking app for the N800.
Oct 20 10:58:29 <_|Nix|_> alterego: No, the technology where the display can make use of the ambient lighting to reduce its reliance on the backlight.
Oct 20 10:59:01 <alterego> Isn't that what transflective is all about? And the light sensor?
Oct 20 10:59:09 <_|Nix|_> GeneralAntilles: It's not that cold yet. I don't use a space heater until, at least December ;o)
Oct 20 10:59:19 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 20 10:59:22 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 10:59:23 <GeneralAntilles> That's my PowerMac G5.
Oct 20 10:59:37 <GeneralAntilles> I don't need heat during the winter.
Oct 20 10:59:45 <GeneralAntilles> Though that could be due to the fact that I'm in Florida. ;)
Oct 20 11:00:12 <_|Nix|_> GeneralAntilles: There's been snow in Florida before, hasn't there? Just not often ...
Oct 20 11:00:29 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, it actually knows in jacksonville every once and a while.
Oct 20 11:00:46 <GeneralAntilles> Last snow south of there was late 80s
Oct 20 11:01:27 <GeneralAntilles> 1989 and 1993
Oct 20 11:01:28 <_Monkey> 3982
Oct 20 11:01:48 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Oct 20 11:01:55 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks, _Monkey!
Oct 20 11:01:55 <_Monkey> GeneralAntilles: sure thing
Oct 20 11:23:25 <kala> anyone knows if http://www.hczim.de/software/mmc-unionfs.html works with OS2007? seems to be wonderful idea.
Oct 20 11:25:49 <kala> nah, probably the package will not install and kernel module will not load.
Oct 20 11:35:02 <Jiten> kala: well, I'd think it needs someone who isn't afraid to mess with kernel stuff.
Oct 20 11:36:12 <Jiten> the code should mostly be complete since the module exists and is usable on desktop computers. Many live-cd:s use it to combine ramdisk and the filesystem on cd.
Oct 20 11:37:42 <Jiten> however, it's probably better to just follow the "boot from MMC" instructions on the wiki.
Oct 20 11:39:49 <kala> I think I'll just point the /usr and /home directory to filesystem on MMC
Oct 20 11:40:13 <kala> its ugly but I somehow don't feel like "booting entirely from MMC"
Oct 20 11:41:36 * czr reminds himself why automatic make pattern rules can't match automatically every possible combination of filenames
Oct 20 11:41:51 <czr> I want a make where I don't need to write a makefile..
Oct 20 11:41:59 * czr sighs
Oct 20 11:42:23 <|tbb|> synergy rocks
Oct 20 11:42:25 <GeneralAntilles> Get to work, then. :P
Oct 20 11:47:08 <czr> GeneralAntilles, neh. just trying to save some typing from myself :-)
Oct 20 11:47:39 <czr> the makefile is almost automatic now. one needs to list target filenames and it will decide what to do and which tools to use, and which source files too
Oct 20 11:48:10 <alterego> czr, I use mkmf :)
Oct 20 11:48:24 <czr> alterego, you assume that I'm building software with make. I'm not.
Oct 20 11:48:54 <alterego> Shat on Earth are _your_ "makefiles" then? :)
Oct 20 11:48:58 <alterego> ~What ..
Oct 20 11:48:59 * infobot .. to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion
Oct 20 11:49:16 <czr> alterego, part of the material building framework
Oct 20 11:49:29 <czr> the material production pipeline is driven by make
Oct 20 11:49:33 <alterego> Ah
Oct 20 11:50:57 <czr> the thing is, that I have a perfectly working system already for my own projects. but I can't use that for this project.
Oct 20 11:51:09 * czr sighs
Oct 20 11:51:16 <alterego> :/
Oct 20 11:51:25 <czr> copyright/ownership reasons basically.
Oct 20 11:51:40 <_|Nix|_> What's this? Whenever I try to use a python not provided by a devkit (such as bora's python2.5) I get a bunch of "sem_post: Function not implemented"
Oct 20 11:52:00 <_|Nix|_> How do I get around that?
Oct 20 11:52:02 <czr> _|Nix|_, you're running that in armel target?
Oct 20 11:52:08 <_|Nix|_> czr: Yes.
Oct 20 11:52:16 <alterego> czr, do you know why osso_application_unset_autosave_cb require's the callback data?
Oct 20 11:52:21 <_|Nix|_> czr: I need a higher version of python than scratchbox provides.
Oct 20 11:52:28 <czr> it's the glibc/qemu/atomic-ops problem. don't run in ARMEL ;-)
Oct 20 11:52:31 <alterego> (osso docs are a bit bad)
Oct 20 11:52:49 <_|Nix|_> czr: OK, and how am I supposed to roll a distro?
Oct 20 11:52:49 <czr> alterego, throw me a link to the api, I'll tell you
Oct 20 11:52:59 <czr> _|Nix|_, ask Nokia :-)
Oct 20 11:53:25 <alterego> http://maemo.org/api_refs/3.0/libosso/index.html
Oct 20 11:53:27 <czr> the ARMEL is supposed to be used only to cross-compile stuff. running python obviously is slightly problematic
Oct 20 11:53:34 <_|Nix|_> czr: Well, so far the messages have only been a nuisance. Lessee if they're fatal. ...
Oct 20 11:53:42 <czr> _|Nix|_, have you tried the python2.5 in the extras-repo on bora?
Oct 20 11:53:43 <_|Nix|_> czr: Pyton is a build tool, in my case.
Oct 20 11:53:49 <alterego> czr, it's under 'autosave'
Oct 20 11:53:51 <_|Nix|_> czr: Yep.
Oct 20 11:53:52 <czr> _|Nix|_, yeah. feel your pain
Oct 20 11:54:01 <czr> I feel your pain even :-)
Oct 20 11:54:41 <czr> alterego, so that it knows which callback to remove
Oct 20 11:54:47 * _|Nix|_ starts building Pidgin despite the warnings ...
Oct 20 11:54:52 <czr> alterego, since it supports multiple callbacks at the same time
Oct 20 11:55:02 <alterego> Interesting.
Oct 20 11:55:07 <alterego> Wait, no it doesn't.
Oct 20 11:55:12 <czr> it doesn't?
Oct 20 11:55:14 <alterego> I checked the source, it complains if there's
Oct 20 11:55:21 <alterego> already a callback sdet.
Oct 20 11:55:24 <czr> heh
Oct 20 11:55:33 <czr> must be mistake in the API design
Oct 20 11:55:48 <czr> hmm. or it calls the callback once more
Oct 20 11:55:53 * czr shrugs
Oct 20 11:56:28 <alterego> Well, looking at the source, it doesn't use that parameter O_O
Oct 20 11:56:43 <alterego> It doesn't even check it's value.
Oct 20 11:56:48 <czr> then it's a mistake in the API. it's not the only one *coughs*
Oct 20 11:57:01 <alterego> Anyhow, I only asked because I thought you were playing with this stuff the other day ;)
Oct 20 11:57:08 <czr> I was. I still am
Oct 20 11:57:11 <alterego> Ah
Oct 20 11:57:13 <czr> but I didn't look at the autosaving bit
Oct 20 11:57:41 <czr> since that's more related to the GUI side
Oct 20 11:57:47 <czr> and I'm not writing about GUI now
Oct 20 11:57:51 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 11:58:45 <alterego> I've been rewriting my libosso bindings.
Oct 20 11:58:58 <alterego> It's making me a bit nuts.
Oct 20 11:59:40 <czr> well. "you can always read the source". That seems to be the standard answer for questions relating to libosso
Oct 20 11:59:48 <alterego> Hah
Oct 20 11:59:57 <czr> the sad part is that I'm not joking.
Oct 20 11:59:57 <alterego> I'm just thankful I _can_ read the source :)
Oct 20 12:01:10 <alterego> Yeah, OSSO is quite important, but it's __really__ badly documented, at least the C API is.
Oct 20 12:01:28 <czr> alterego, under modules ->RPC, then find osso_rpc_get_timeout
Oct 20 12:01:38 <czr> what does the function do? :-)
Oct 20 12:01:41 <alterego> I've already bound that.
Oct 20 12:01:47 <czr> yup
Oct 20 12:01:49 <alterego> Returns the timeout?
Oct 20 12:01:57 <czr> according to the API :-)
Oct 20 12:02:00 <czr> the ref I mean
Oct 20 12:02:12 <czr> "Sets the timeout value used by the RPC functions."
Oct 20 12:02:20 <czr> now. see the small problem? :-)
Oct 20 12:02:33 <czr> lucky us, the _set_timeout according to docs will return it.
Oct 20 12:02:36 <czr> so all is well :-)
Oct 20 12:03:02 <alterego> Strange.
Oct 20 12:03:03 <_Monkey> Strange. is my / filesystem full?
Oct 20 12:03:23 <czr> alterego, also, it never mentions what the default timeout is, and whether there is a timeout by default
Oct 20 12:03:27 <alterego> So the API says it accepts a gint but the paramter documentation seems to think it accepts a pointer :)
Oct 20 12:03:30 <czr> and such small matters are left to the developer
Oct 20 12:03:57 <czr> alterego, get_timeout will store the timeout behind a pointer
Oct 20 12:04:00 <alterego> Well, I'm going to be very happy when I've finished this.
Oct 20 12:04:13 <alterego> I hate the doxygen format.
Oct 20 12:04:27 <alterego> That and ruby/maemo 1.0 will be complete :)
Oct 20 12:04:28 <czr> I don't mind doxygen. when done properly. line in libdbus docs
Oct 20 12:04:50 <czr> it was a joy to read those, esp after all the stuff in maemo api refs
Oct 20 12:04:56 <czr> s/line/like/
Oct 20 12:05:04 <alterego> Heh, yeah.
Oct 20 12:13:24 <_|Nix|_> What's this now? "remember to run `libtool --finish /usr/lib/purple-2'"
Oct 20 12:13:49 <_|Nix|_> Geez! How will I ever manage to get this thing to build when it tells me I have to run things manually?
Oct 20 12:20:29 <alterego> Hmm ..
Oct 20 12:20:51 <alterego> How can a function return OSSO_ERROR without actually ever returning it ..
Oct 20 12:21:18 <Jaffa> ?
Oct 20 12:21:46 <alterego> osso_application_unset_autosave_cb
Oct 20 12:22:31 <alterego> The only explanation I have is that I'm looking at different source.
Oct 20 12:22:40 <alterego> To the version that is in my SDK.
Oct 20 12:22:45 <Jaffa> Hmm, any Nokians willing to comment on the quote in http://www.drobe.co.uk/riscos/artifact2114.html saying that Nokia are a big RISC OS user? Ah, presumably in one of their STBs
Oct 20 12:23:03 <alterego> I'm a big Risc OS user :)
Oct 20 12:24:30 * Jaffa knows of 4 of us in our ~140 company.
Oct 20 12:24:38 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 12:24:52 <alterego> My dad used to work for Acorn and ARM
Oct 20 12:24:57 <Jaffa> Cool.
Oct 20 12:25:16 * Jaffa 's mate designed the Iyonix motherboard :)
Oct 20 12:25:40 <alterego> I've got an SA RiscPC that runs debian most of the time ^_^
Oct 20 12:26:03 * Jaffa 's put his RPC up into the loft, but imaged the HD and using RPCemu on his x86_64 box now
Oct 20 12:26:07 <sciboy> I wonder how much easier it is to type on the hardware keyboard on the N810.
Oct 20 12:26:22 <Jaffa> For the occasional order of http://www.jaffasoft.co.uk/product/wimpworks.html
Oct 20 12:26:23 <alterego> My dad still uses his A7000 for GPS mapping.
Oct 20 12:26:35 <Jaffa> Interesting. Using serial comms?
Oct 20 12:26:48 <alterego> Yeah, he wrote a BBC BASIC program
Oct 20 12:26:57 <Jaffa> sciboy: easier than the thumb keyboard, stylus keyboard or a Bluetooth keyboard?
Oct 20 12:27:04 <alterego> It downloads the track log, opens a window and displays a map with the track log on it.
Oct 20 12:27:16 * Jaffa 's imagining it being a lot more practical for his use cases. And might make ArcEm more useful :-)
Oct 20 12:27:20 <sciboy> Jaffa, Than on-screen keyboard.
Oct 20 12:27:39 <sciboy> Jaffa, Bluetooth disqualified on the grounds of it already being a hardware keyboard. =P
Oct 20 12:27:47 <alterego> I'd imagine it a lot better, because you can use two thumbs :)
Oct 20 12:27:53 <alterego> And everyone loves buttons!!!
Oct 20 12:27:58 <alterego> (backlit too!)
Oct 20 12:31:39 * Jaffa dittos alterego
Oct 20 12:32:49 <alterego> Shame it doesn't have a MP camera.
Oct 20 12:32:59 <alterego> That would be great for those mobile bloggers.
Oct 20 12:33:07 <alterego> Though I guess most phones have 'em now-a-days.
Oct 20 12:41:26 <czr> alterego, by the magic of copy-paste-comments :-)
Oct 20 12:41:49 <czr> you just have to have source code that is compatible with the comments, and hey presto :-)
Oct 20 12:48:54 <sciboy> I'm so annoyed that they aren't shipping my N800 in the 3-4 days they said it would take. Up to the second week now with no news.
Oct 20 12:50:49 <alterego> sciboy, where did you order it from?
Oct 20 12:51:37 <sciboy> Harris Technology, ht.com.au
Oct 20 12:52:25 <davis> hello
Oct 20 12:52:41 <alterego> Right, never heard of them :)
Oct 20 12:53:38 <sciboy> If I was willing to wait around a few weeks I would've ordered it from overseas with the recent price drop. =/
Oct 20 12:54:04 <alterego> Yeah
Oct 20 12:54:30 <alterego> I got an N800 about 4 months ago.
Oct 20 12:59:17 * alterego has an evil plan to work around osso crapness.
Oct 20 12:59:37 <alterego> Oh.
Oct 20 12:59:42 <alterego> Hmm .. I should have seen that.
Oct 20 13:00:23 <disq> hmmm
Oct 20 13:00:37 <alterego> I was calling the wrong function :)
Oct 20 13:10:19 <disq> wonder why my hildon_color_button_get_popup_shown call doesn't work. funny name for a function
Oct 20 13:10:43 <disq> anybody else installed the 4.0 beta sdk? i have some questions, it's very weird for me
Oct 20 13:10:51 <disq> not having questions, the sdk is.
Oct 20 13:11:31 <disq> konttori: oh, hey. have you used the 4.0 beta sdk? keyboard bindings are off, right? or is it just me?
Oct 20 13:11:53 <konttori> I haven't used it at all. sorry
Oct 20 13:11:57 <disq> okay :)
Oct 20 13:12:10 <disq> got some apps in the chinook extras repo if you're interested
Oct 20 13:12:21 <disq> rdesktop, maemopad+ and maemoscrobbler
Oct 20 13:12:36 <konttori> I decided that I won't install any programming related stuff @ work until chinook is out. well, it's out now, so I might end up installing it.
Oct 20 13:13:03 <konttori> ahh... great. Thanks! Wow. so coo. I'll test them out asap (well, not rdesktop, as I don't use it)
Oct 20 13:13:18 * konttori goes to take out the n810 immediately
Oct 20 13:13:38 <disq> had to switch to libwpeditor-plus from the modest svn, as libwpeditor was not included in the sdk or anywhere, and didn't compile
Oct 20 13:14:21 <konttori> what is libwpeditor? For the maemopad?
Oct 20 13:14:33 <disq> my sdk is really acting up so i can't tell whether it's all working all not. keyboard bindings are off, all i got is the green channel (X server issue) and as there's no xterm can't get debug output
Oct 20 13:15:01 <disq> yeah. it was used in osso-notes in bora. a gtktextview with easy to use markup support
Oct 20 13:15:32 <disq> i like using nokia-developed components (as long as they're open source)
Oct 20 13:15:50 <konttori> makes sense.
Oct 20 13:15:58 <konttori> I installed maemopad+ now.
Oct 20 13:16:10 <konttori> testing it quickly
Oct 20 13:16:25 <konttori> does it use sqlite as backend ?
Oct 20 13:16:29 <disq> yeah sqlite3
Oct 20 13:17:21 <konttori> great. I've been more and more interested in usage of sqlite.
Oct 20 13:17:34 <disq> it's good, been using it since IT2005 :)
Oct 20 13:17:36 <konttori> maemopad+ works perfectly. Great. Testing scrobbler now.
Oct 20 13:18:31 <konttori> I hope my user settings are correct... now starting ukmp
Oct 20 13:18:41 <disq> couldn't test scrobbler very much as the cp applet requires keyboard input :) btw maemo-install-utils are not included in the sdk and not in any repository either so i had to get rid of maemo-confirm-text in the installer
Oct 20 13:19:08 <disq> filed a bug on bugzilla for that though.
Oct 20 13:19:16 <konttori> I hope it's fixed quickly
Oct 20 13:19:28 <disq> yeah. it also provides maemo-select-menu-location
Oct 20 13:19:42 <konttori> the utils work on the device though. (ukmp shows confirmation dialog perfectly)
Oct 20 13:19:54 <disq> ah. nice. they're bundled then
Oct 20 13:20:11 <konttori> By the way, I'm managing application manager along with marius, so if you have any ideas / things that need fixing, please let me know.
Oct 20 13:20:20 <alterego> Is the SDK out of Beta yet?
Oct 20 13:20:30 <konttori> I don't think so.
Oct 20 13:20:43 <alterego> Just checking that I don't have to upgrade ;)
Oct 20 13:20:48 <konttori> but the beta is a bit outdate from what I've heard, so probably there will be non - beta soon
Oct 20 13:21:06 <alterego> My scratchbox partition is getting dangerously low on space. I think I'm going to have to do someting about that soon.
Oct 20 13:21:26 <b0unc3> hello
Oct 20 13:21:43 <konttori> sweet! maemo scrobbler is working: http://www.last.fm/user/konttori/
Oct 20 13:21:49 <disq> yeah my /scratchbox is 3.2 gigs :)
Oct 20 13:21:52 <disq> oh. good news
Oct 20 13:21:52 <_Monkey> i heard good news was that pretty much all of this applies to the N800, too. (with OS2008).
Oct 20 13:21:55 <disq> thanks for the testing :)
Oct 20 13:22:01 <disq> _Monkey: forget good news
Oct 20 13:22:02 <_Monkey> disq: I forgot good news
Oct 20 13:22:05 <disq> _Monkey: good news is <reply>
Oct 20 13:22:06 <_Monkey> OK, disq.
Oct 20 13:22:10 <konttori> np. thanks for making such a great service!
Oct 20 13:22:13 <alterego> disq, same as mine :)
Oct 20 13:22:24 <alterego> I've only got 400Mb free space on that partition now :/
Oct 20 13:24:44 <konttori> disq: do you guys use sqlite in kagu for cover image storage as well?
Oct 20 13:24:57 <konttori> Just wondering if you did any performance testing for that
Oct 20 13:25:27 <pupnik> i think maemo devs should all have psions
Oct 20 13:25:59 <quinlan^> Whys that?
Oct 20 13:26:01 <disq> i think they should all have newtons.
Oct 20 13:26:06 <pupnik> :P
Oct 20 13:26:14 <konttori> I've been thinking of either using a sqlite db for the cover images, or making cache image approach to store all the covers in one biggish image. to speed up the initial cover loading.
Oct 20 13:26:34 <konttori> for some reason reading images from the file system takes large overhead for just opening the file.
Oct 20 13:26:43 <disq> konttori: no, cover images and albumcache are in seperate files in ~/.kagu. not sure how it'd work with sqlite blobs
Oct 20 13:26:50 <konttori> so, either the cropping image approach, or the sqlite would make sense
Oct 20 13:27:08 <konttori> you can store and load image in pygame as strings
Oct 20 13:27:20 <konttori> so, it's easy to store them in db
Oct 20 13:27:22 <disq> we use a big albumcache.tga and a big artistcache.tga for album/artist covers, with reflections and all
Oct 20 13:27:30 <disq> serializing images as strings is not a good idea
Oct 20 13:27:37 <disq> you could just store them as blobs in sqlite
Oct 20 13:27:37 <konttori> why so?
Oct 20 13:27:41 <konttori> true
Oct 20 13:27:49 <disq> because it'd take time
Oct 20 13:28:00 <konttori> does it?
Oct 20 13:28:16 <konttori> I mean, it should be the same bits, just in a different datatype, right?
Oct 20 13:28:19 <disq> why wouldn't it? few hundred images?
Oct 20 13:29:16 <pupnik> konttori: can the N810 receive dpad input at the same time as pressing an alphanumeric key?
Oct 20 13:29:25 <disq> good question
Oct 20 13:29:28 <konttori> yeah.
Oct 20 13:29:49 <pupnik> ok then fceu just needs some alternate/equivalent keymaps for buttons
Oct 20 13:29:57 <konttori> There's a good story to tell about that, but I'll have to skip telling it this time.
Oct 20 13:30:21 <konttori> pupnik: I tested fceu and it works brilliatly. thanks for that.
Oct 20 13:30:52 <pupnik> Tak ported fceu.  It's good to hear that re: dpad+keys
Oct 20 13:31:07 <konttori> pupnik: backspace for A, p for B. (would be my initial test configuration for the keys)
Oct 20 13:31:50 <konttori> anyone eager to port xchat?
Oct 20 13:31:55 <konttori> I would love that!
Oct 20 13:32:02 <pupnik> it's available
Oct 20 13:32:26 <celesteh> xchat?
Oct 20 13:32:27 <_Monkey> xchat is a gtk-based IRC client.  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/
Oct 20 13:32:34 <celesteh> awesome!
Oct 20 13:33:05 <celesteh> I've been using gaim.  this will be way better!
Oct 20 13:33:45 <disq> konttori: could you test that, in maemopad+, in a "sketch node", menu->tools->color... work? it's supposed to "click on the" colorbutton. i replaced the function with a new one hildon-1 provides but doesn't work in the sdk, no crashes either. maybe an assert but can't see them right now
Oct 20 13:34:52 <disq> also, does "pressure sensitive brush size" work OK? touching the drawing area with the finger is supposed to do something (which i forgot, full screen? disable toolbar/left bar?) does it do that?
Oct 20 13:35:07 <pupnik> thanks disq - maemopad+ is one of my favorites
Oct 20 13:35:29 <disq> it still needs paged sketches support and a better organized sourcecode :P
Oct 20 13:36:22 <Jaffa> disq: does maemopad+ have an option for creating notes with no title? i.e. it'll take the first line or something? I haven't tried it for ages, I find input on my N800 to be too slow for my quick mind ;-)
Oct 20 13:36:56 <disq> we should add that (now that I have two more developers working on mp+)
Oct 20 13:37:12 <konttori> disq: menu tools color does not work
Oct 20 13:37:23 <disq> though it could only be active for text nodes or checklists
Oct 20 13:37:27 <Jaffa> One of the big advantages of Psion's Jotter - I could just open it up and start typing (similarly, reloading the previous note file woud be handy)
Oct 20 13:37:34 <disq> konttori: ok thanks :)
Oct 20 13:37:36 <konttori> clicking on the color works though
Oct 20 13:37:41 <konttori> in the toolbar
Oct 20 13:37:57 <pupnik> agree with Jaffa
Oct 20 13:38:06 <disq> Jaffa: it saves the state and loads it automatically on startup
Oct 20 13:38:11 <konttori> but its saying that color cannot be modified whn I try to change the color
Oct 20 13:38:14 <Jaffa> disq: cool - told you it had been ages :-)
Oct 20 13:38:21 <disq> it was there from the beginning i think :P
Oct 20 13:38:31 <Jaffa> Yeah, I'm blaming my memory now
Oct 20 13:38:48 <disq> konttori: mmm. weird. choose a color, or change the chosen color via a color picker?
Oct 20 13:39:09 <disq> i could switch to other colors in the beta sdk, didn't try to modify the preset ones tho
Oct 20 13:39:16 <konttori> Pressure sensitive brush color seems to work
Oct 20 13:39:51 <davis> anybody use usb networking?
Oct 20 13:39:59 <konttori> If I choose any of the predefined colors, they work... ah damn! sorry. I mistook the behavior.
Oct 20 13:40:09 <konttori> I had to choose an empty slot to have user color
Oct 20 13:40:14 <konttori> now its working perfectly
Oct 20 13:40:16 <disq> any idea why would launching the app from sbox prompt doesn't work? I have to launch it from the desktop menu and can't see assert/debug messages that way
Oct 20 13:40:25 <disq> ah, ok
Oct 20 13:40:47 <disq> davis: i think i did once, in a hotel room. but it has been a long long time
Oct 20 13:41:18 <davis> disq: I was able to ping the nokia from my pc using usb networking.
Oct 20 13:41:35 <davis> disq: but, i can not get routing to work in opera though.
Oct 20 13:41:56 <disq> ah, you need to create a dummy access point
Oct 20 13:42:02 <davis> i did that
Oct 20 13:42:14 <disq> set it to ad-hoc and set ip to 0.0.0.0 so that it won't interfere
Oct 20 13:42:23 <davis> i even added an entery in /etc/resolv.conf for my pc's nameserver.
Oct 20 13:42:43 <disq> oh. opera works (doesn't try to connect) but routing doesn't work?
Oct 20 13:42:58 <davis> let me try to set ad-hoc and 0.0.0.0
Oct 20 13:43:11 <konttori> disq: can you consider adding support for text entry element to the maemopad+
Oct 20 13:43:15 <disq> yeah. just setting the name to "dummy" worked in OS2006, doesn't in bora.
Oct 20 13:43:20 <konttori> also, a clear button in the toolbar would be cool
Oct 20 13:43:29 <davis> ping from my pc to the nokia works. opera will not bring up webpages, and nslookup on the nokia fails to find hosts.
Oct 20 13:43:37 <disq> konttori: text entry element? on sketches, i presume?
Oct 20 13:44:20 <disq> konttori: to be honest it's a lot of work and not even sure how to do that (provided the text should be always editable, not like cheap paint programs)
Oct 20 13:45:29 <disq> davis: the dummy access point only helps to skip some apps' "oh i'm not connected" behavior. it won't fix the routing or other things. no idea, though
Oct 20 13:45:47 <davis> disq: how do I change the ip for the default connection?
Oct 20 13:46:03 <disq> the advanced button in the last step
Oct 20 13:46:42 <zoran> does it write some ifconfig line in conf file?
Oct 20 13:46:44 <disq> that UI desperately needs a redesign, though. it's so painful to configure connections manually
Oct 20 13:47:03 <disq> ah, no idea how it works. i'm away for a few minutes, good luck
Oct 20 13:47:11 <davis> hmm.  i am using connection manager. I can search connections and connect to them only.
Oct 20 13:47:12 <zoran> :)
Oct 20 13:47:40 <konttori> disq: I think editable until unselected would be cool enough
Oct 20 13:47:56 <zoran> I bet it makes conf file somewhere
Oct 20 13:48:15 <disq> konttori: wouldn't be practical for real "sketching"
Oct 20 13:48:50 <konttori> true. Just wondering.
Oct 20 13:49:13 <konttori> mostly because there is the kb now, so it might have been usefull for commenting parts of the sketch.
Oct 20 13:49:26 <konttori> but, of course, if needed, there is always the text note method then
Oct 20 13:49:41 <disq> i agree we need a unified memo type
Oct 20 13:49:53 <disq> but give me the widget and i'll write the code for it :P
Oct 20 13:50:46 <disq> implementing the sketch widget with multiple tiled undo levels (it takes so little memory, even usable in the 770) was adventure enough :)
Oct 20 13:52:15 <konttori> I can imagine that it cannot have been too much fun!
Oct 20 13:52:50 <konttori> I have been wondering whether the approach of supporting to move 30 secs or 1 minute back would be good idea for scetching
Oct 20 13:53:25 <konttori> so that instead of 20 levels of small changes undo, you would have go back 15,40,45,60,120 seconds.
Oct 20 13:54:06 <konttori> so, that would be 5 levels of undo, but with full size image for all of them.
Oct 20 13:54:15 <konttori> does that make any sense?
Oct 20 13:54:46 <konttori> at the moment, I was sketching something and I ran out of undo levels, because I was doing small lines all the time (a lot of them)
Oct 20 13:55:04 <zerojay> Anyone happen to know if any sort of work was done on the Media Player in IT 2008 to fix the tons of bugs against it?
Oct 20 13:55:58 <konttori> from what I understood, it's a complete re-write (although I may be mistaken, so don't count on that)
Oct 20 13:56:26 <zerojay> Oh, that's a surprise.
Oct 20 13:56:32 <konttori> Hey, anyone interested in taking the time to compile mplayer for the device?
Oct 20 13:56:39 <konttori> serge hasn't been around too much lately
Oct 20 13:56:58 <zerojay> I would but I don't have scratchbox/sdk set up.
Oct 20 13:57:38 <davis> hmm.  i am trying to get this usb networking to work 100%.  I have an ssh session from my pc to the nokia using usb.  I have edited /etc/resolv.conf to add my company's dns server.  I have done a route and the default route goes to my pc.  My pc is winXP(shudder) and I have sharing enabled on the usb networking connection.  What am I doing wrong?
Oct 20 13:59:39 <konttori> disq: any chance of you considering adding offline support to maemoscrobbler?
Oct 20 14:00:01 <konttori> so that it would cache listened music and when online, send the notifications to lastfm?
Oct 20 14:00:06 <zerojay> Doesn't it already support that? If you're offline, it saves up your song data until you're connected again.
Oct 20 14:00:16 <konttori> ahhh.. sorry then. I didn't know that
Oct 20 14:00:27 <zerojay> At least it does for me when I used it last.
Oct 20 14:00:29 <konttori> cool. even better than I had hoped then!
Oct 20 14:00:40 <zerojay> (Wish Media Player would support scrobbling...)
Oct 20 14:00:49 <konttori> it doesn't support that?
Oct 20 14:00:59 <konttori> well, just use ukmp ... ;)
Oct 20 14:01:04 <konttori> or kagu... ;)
Oct 20 14:01:14 <davis> if on the nokia, I do nslookup www.google.com 9.0.6.1  It says *** unknown host.
Oct 20 14:01:24 <zerojay> Yeah, that's the thing... I want to stay as far away from those as possible, no offense. ;)
Oct 20 14:02:01 <disq> :)
Oct 20 14:02:06 <zerojay> I don't like music players I won't be looking at much to have a huge shiny non-standard interface.
Oct 20 14:02:13 <zerojay> But that's just me. ;)
Oct 20 14:02:30 <disq> add scrobbler support to mpd. or, there might already be something for it
Oct 20 14:02:31 <zoran> davis, what kind of connection do you have, again?
Oct 20 14:02:43 <davis> zoran: i have a usb networkingn setup.
Oct 20 14:02:53 <davis> i am trying to follow the howto's at maemo.
Oct 20 14:03:08 <zoran> sure 770/800 could work usb net?
Oct 20 14:03:15 <zerojay> I filed a bug a few months ago asking the built in Media Player to support Maemoscrobbler.. Doubt that will be fixed though.
Oct 20 14:03:18 <zoran> not wireless?
Oct 20 14:03:34 <davis> not wireless.
Oct 20 14:03:45 <konttori> zerojay: I can completely understand that you like music player to be small and simple.
Oct 20 14:03:50 <zoran> via ppp?
Oct 20 14:03:54 <davis> i am at work.  we require a leap account sestup in order to use wireless.
Oct 20 14:04:03 <davis> setup
Oct 20 14:04:35 <zoran> what protocol do you use, I'm curious?
Oct 20 14:04:44 <zerojay> Media Player isn't the greatest, but I like the library and having all of my media in one program, videos, music, internet radio, etc...
Oct 20 14:05:47 <zerojay> I just wish that the N800 supported Samba by default.
Oct 20 14:05:56 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, there's a lot to be said for the centralization in media player.
Oct 20 14:06:04 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, I think OS2008 will.
Oct 20 14:06:12 <GeneralAntilles> It keeps coming up on the ITT forums.
Oct 20 14:06:15 <davis> zoran: its the usb networking setup as described on the wiki.
Oct 20 14:06:22 <GeneralAntilles> Mara said something about Samba support.
Oct 20 14:06:35 <zoran> davis, could you point me to that page?
Oct 20 14:06:39 <davis> you basically add a script to /etc/init.d/ ... yes.
Oct 20 14:06:39 <zerojay> If Media Player could also scrape Shoutcast for streams, that would be awesome too... another bug I filed ages ago.
Oct 20 14:06:40 <davis> hold on.
Oct 20 14:07:01 <konttori> well, you have videos in ukmp... ;) Anyway, I actually like music player to be music player and then a good video player for videos.
Oct 20 14:07:12 <davis> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/usbnetworking/
Oct 20 14:07:18 <zoran> k, looking at
Oct 20 14:07:32 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I'd agree for a desktop.
Oct 20 14:07:44 <GeneralAntilles> But it makes it easier to get to what your after if it's all together on a mobile platform.
Oct 20 14:08:42 <zerojay> Video Center does a good job of not getting in Media Player's way. Download what you want through Video Center, they show up in Media Player..
Oct 20 14:09:27 <zoran> davis, huh!
Oct 20 14:09:31 <zerojay> When I first got my N800, I downloaded pretty much every 3rd party app out there.
Oct 20 14:09:48 <zerojay> These days, I'd rather just have more stuff integrated.
Oct 20 14:09:51 <davis> zoran: huh?
Oct 20 14:10:07 <zoran> to me it seems better to first do --enable-usb-host mode
Oct 20 14:10:24 <GeneralAntilles> It'll be easier when we don't have to wipe everything and start over with each OS update, zerojay.
Oct 20 14:10:46 <zoran> but I did not see that 770 could use xp box  as a router
Oct 20 14:10:54 <zerojay> Yeah, that's true, though that doesn't really bother me much... except for the fact that our cookies/saved passwords are wiped as well.
Oct 20 14:11:02 <zoran> just oposite, if even possible
Oct 20 14:11:03 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, well, yes and no. An update could break software, like it usually does.
Oct 20 14:11:04 <zerojay> And not backed up.
Oct 20 14:11:18 <alterego> Sure, userdata should be persistant but OS and programs should be installed together.
Oct 20 14:11:38 <GeneralAntilles> True, but then we just download the update from app manager when the dev updates things, right?
Oct 20 14:11:56 <alterego> Provided they're there sure.
Oct 20 14:12:01 <zoran> davies, you need outboud connection from your 800?
Oct 20 14:12:08 <zoran> *outbound
Oct 20 14:12:19 <alterego> If all deps are correct, apt should uninstall things that it can't upgrade to work with a dist upgrade.
Oct 20 14:12:23 <GeneralAntilles> Seems likely that there'll be fewer breaks going forward now that Gtk is up to date, no?
Oct 20 14:12:39 <alterego> Well, Gtk is only half of the story :)
Oct 20 14:12:44 <alterego> If half ^_^
Oct 20 14:12:49 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, true.
Oct 20 14:13:25 <alterego> I have a couple of lose ends and then I've got the last part of this module to do.
Oct 20 14:13:40 <alterego> I saved the hardest, most complicated, bit til last ..
Oct 20 14:13:43 <GeneralAntilles> But, still, breaks should probably come less often going forward as maemo stabilizes.
Oct 20 14:13:55 <alterego> Yes, definitely.
Oct 20 14:14:53 <GeneralAntilles> Either way, I wub my N800. :D
Oct 20 14:14:59 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 14:15:04 <alterego> Yes, it's a neat device :)
Oct 20 14:15:21 <alterego> I've probably spent more time coding for it than actually using it though ^_^
Oct 20 14:16:25 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I know the feeling (though with game content creation and not coding >_>)
Oct 20 14:16:32 <alterego> I've wrote 640 lines so far today :/
Oct 20 14:18:20 <zerojay> all comments? ;)
Oct 20 14:19:14 <alterego> Hah, no.
Oct 20 14:19:23 <alterego> I don't generally comment my code much.
Oct 20 14:19:32 <alterego> I try to code in a way that documents itself ^_^
Oct 20 14:19:59 <zerojay> maemo sdk
Oct 20 14:20:00 <_Monkey> i think maemo sdk is the software development environment for nokia tablets - a quick howto for installing is here: http://www.ptlug.org/wiki/Howto_Installing_Maemo_SDK_for_Nokia_770
Oct 20 14:20:01 <alterego> I have been writing in a test driven manner and simultaneously writing API documentation ^_^
Oct 20 14:21:42 <zoran> davis, if nokia device is a router, it must have inner and outer interface
Oct 20 14:22:10 <davis> zoran: my nokia is not a router. that is not my wish.
Oct 20 14:22:15 <konttori> I've been quite happy that since I got the n810 I have been using it quite a lot (and not only for listening to music / coding for it). It's much more useful device than n800 was / is
Oct 20 14:22:28 <konttori> Have you all guys subscribed to the developer program?
Oct 20 14:22:38 <zoran> davis, what did you try to connect?
Oct 20 14:22:45 <davis> i want my pc to be the router.  ie. my pc is connected to LAN via ethernet and to my pc via usb.
Oct 20 14:23:08 <davis> from my pc, I tried to ssh/ping my nokia.  Which I can do.  I have a shell open on the nokia via pc now.
Oct 20 14:23:15 <GeneralAntilles> Howso, konttori?
Oct 20 14:23:23 <GeneralAntilles> Mostly due to OS2008 or keyboard?
Oct 20 14:23:39 <davis> however, on nokia if I do a nslookup foo, it fails. it does not know how to handle route or dns info.  i am not sure what is the problem.
Oct 20 14:23:42 <zoran> should be oposite
Oct 20 14:23:55 <Robot101> konttori: have you tried the SIP stuff? :)
Oct 20 14:24:03 <davis> route -a on the nokia shows the default gw is the pc, so it seems that routing is ok.
Oct 20 14:24:16 <zoran> davis, 770 should be the one that starts the ssh connection
Oct 20 14:24:19 <davis> i wish I had ping on nokia so i could try to ping something.
Oct 20 14:24:32 <alterego> konttori, I applied yesterday afternoon.
Oct 20 14:24:42 <davis> on the 770, i start sshd.  I ssh to the nokia using my pc as the client.
Oct 20 14:24:45 <zoran> in repository?
Oct 20 14:24:47 <alterego> Not getting my hopes up or anything though :)
Oct 20 14:24:57 <davis> i dont have a sshd running on my pc so I can not ssh to it.
Oct 20 14:25:18 <zoran> davis, I think yu hafe to run sshd on the pc
Oct 20 14:25:35 <zoran> or just netcat?
Oct 20 14:25:41 <zoran> it could be better
Oct 20 14:25:48 <zerojay> E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture. <-- boooooooooooooooo
Oct 20 14:25:50 <zoran> you could make 2 way talk
Oct 20 14:26:11 <zoran> there is netcat for win and linux
Oct 20 14:26:26 <zoran> -L is flag to listen on the port
Oct 20 14:26:52 <zerojay> konttori: It looks a little less useful as I won't be able to take pictures with it.
Oct 20 14:27:08 <zoran> davis, bbl
Oct 20 14:27:16 <konttori> GeneralAntille: Yeah, mostly due to the keyboard. I's so much easier to use all the web related stuff, take notes and so on with the kb
Oct 20 14:27:28 <davis> i hate to say this but my employeer considers ncat to be a trojan.  even if I try to unpack a zip file with ncat in it, the corporate antivirus sw will delelte it.
Oct 20 14:27:32 <davis> so, i can not do that.
Oct 20 14:27:43 <zerojay> davis: Most do.
Oct 20 14:27:54 <konttori> zerojay: just point the device to where you want to take a pic from (or use your camphone)
Oct 20 14:28:12 <zerojay> konttori: I don't and won't ever get a phone.
Oct 20 14:28:37 <konttori> I didn't try SIP, but I've heard that it works surprisingly well
Oct 20 14:28:51 <zerojay> It's the final version of RTCOMM as far as I know.
Oct 20 14:28:56 <konttori> a few co-workers have been using it to call abroad to friends/relatives.
Oct 20 14:28:57 <gla55> using voip kind of defeats whole "i won't ever get a phone"
Oct 20 14:29:23 <zerojay> gla55: As I use phones all day every day for work, I can tell you that it doesn't.
Oct 20 14:29:33 <gla55> just different protocol
Oct 20 14:29:41 <zerojay> Doesn't matter.
Oct 20 14:29:48 <gla55> who cares if it's voip or gsm packets
Oct 20 14:30:10 <zerojay> I guess you don't care if you get monthly bills either, huh?
Oct 20 14:30:38 <konttori> wimax might make the SIP even more useful in the future.
Oct 20 14:30:44 <gla55> if i used voip, i'd still get an umts modem(some phone probably) and 10e/month
Oct 20 14:30:44 <zerojay> Yes, it will.
Oct 20 14:30:48 <konttori> Don't know how the phone companies will handle that
Oct 20 14:31:05 <zerojay> I'm glad Canada's almost completely covered by Wimax.
Oct 20 14:31:07 <gla55> phone companies will provide the wimax, duh, and the data connections to the base stations
Oct 20 14:31:35 <konttori> but will they be able to charge as ridiculous amounts as they do in the states for phone connections at the moment
Oct 20 14:31:42 <gla55> if it's just "i want to phone for free", it's not exactly the same as "i don't want a phone"
Oct 20 14:32:07 <zerojay> gla55: I don't want a cell phone. Plain and simple. N800 is not a cell phone. Get over it.
Oct 20 14:34:48 <alterego> Yeah, cell phones will be completely dead when WiMAX takes over.
Oct 20 14:35:10 <konttori> get a n95 (quoting nokia: look at what computers have become) ;) Just teasing. In the end n800 and n95 are pretty much the same thing inside.
Oct 20 14:35:16 <gla55> they'll still be cellphones.. just with wimax
Oct 20 14:36:51 <alterego> I'm just saying that the "cell" architecture, GSM etc will eventually die out.
Oct 20 14:37:06 <alterego> Which is cool.
Oct 20 14:37:46 <davis> cool.
Oct 20 14:37:53 <alterego> It opens up possibilities for providers though, they could maybe do deals with customers, free access in a local zone and charge when using a more global scope.
Oct 20 14:38:08 <davis> i can listen to radioparadise.com mp3 streams with my nokia connected to my pc via usb.
Oct 20 14:38:26 <gla55> well sure, i mostly use my phone for data anyhow.. but currently, i don't see much advantage from wimax as i don't see anyone building a statewide wimax network here and offering it at 10e per month
Oct 20 14:39:46 <alterego> Data rates in England are obscene. Luckily I know where all the free access points are around where I live so I can get by quite easily :)
Oct 20 14:40:00 <davis> and install .debs from net.
Oct 20 14:40:48 <gla55> alterego: hunting for wifi in london sucked bigtime
Oct 20 14:41:00 <lopz> hola
Oct 20 14:41:01 <_Monkey> hi, lopz
Oct 20 14:41:08 <gla55> and the wifi visible in the hotel was like 20£ per week
Oct 20 14:41:10 <alterego> I've not been to London in _ages_ ..
Oct 20 14:41:22 <alterego> Sheesh
Oct 20 14:41:24 <gla55> i was last week.. for the smartphone show
Oct 20 14:41:41 <konttori> n810 seems to have wimax locator in the navigation application. That is pretty neat
Oct 20 14:41:41 <alterego> I live in Cambridge.
Oct 20 14:43:35 <alterego> Hmm .. Think I'll move on to something else for a while.
Oct 20 14:43:41 <alterego> I'm getting a bit sick of OSSO now :)
Oct 20 14:44:06 <davis> hmm. so where can I get alternate busyboxes, or sources and sdk's to build my own?
Oct 20 14:44:31 <alterego> busybox source code is available on the internet.
Oct 20 14:44:46 <alterego> There are tutorials on installing the SDK on the maemo.org site.
Oct 20 14:45:09 <davis> are they on the garage site or regular maemo?
Oct 20 14:45:27 <alterego> busybox is busybox.
Oct 20 14:45:33 <alterego> Go to the busybox website.
Oct 20 15:43:39 <bedboi> hi there
Oct 20 15:43:54 <celesteh> howdy
Oct 20 15:47:31 <alterego> Hmm, anyone know how I can force an autosave event to occur for an application I'm writting? But it has to occur from _outside_ my program.
Oct 20 15:47:44 * alterego needs to make the system call autosave.
Oct 20 15:49:58 <derf> Isn't that what dbus is for?
Oct 20 15:50:14 <alterego> Sure ..
Oct 20 15:50:16 <alterego> How?
Oct 20 15:50:38 <derf> Go read your friendly dbus documentation.
Oct 20 15:50:44 <alterego> -_-
Oct 20 15:50:52 <alterego> Yeah, because that's going to help.
Oct 20 15:51:17 <alterego> Ah, nevermind. It just got triggered by accident.
Oct 20 15:53:34 <Jaffa> zerojay: btw, my on-demand transcoding server's coming along well. Proof of concept is working, just making it more robust for a proper release (rather than pointing people at the source code in here the other night)
Oct 20 15:56:30 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, I sorted failed with that, Jaffa.
Oct 20 15:56:39 <GeneralAntilles> My perl installation is absolutely broken on here. >_>
Oct 20 16:03:13 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: writing instructions is also on the TODO list for a proper release :)
Oct 20 16:03:27 <truaddict> hi all
Oct 20 16:03:33 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, well, it's a much appreciated service.
Oct 20 16:03:57 <GeneralAntilles> My one request: have the ability to save the transcoded files on the server so you can access them in the future without going through transcoding again.
Oct 20 16:04:14 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: OK, I'll make that an option.
Oct 20 16:04:40 <truaddict> please, can anyone tell is there DOSbox ported for nokia tablets?
Oct 20 16:06:27 <Jaffa> pupnik or unique311 did it, I think. Screenshots on ITT.
Oct 20 16:07:54 <truaddict> thanks
Oct 20 16:23:19 <j_ck> hi, just bought n800, put on some apps, and now I'm getting "Internal error. Application "xx" closed." with anything that access the disk. It's OS2007, any ideas?
Oct 20 16:25:20 <wumpus> do you have the latest patch? I remember something about SDHC corruption fixes in the patch notes
Oct 20 16:26:12 <j_ck> if it's not pre-installed - then no. could you direct me to a source and a manual and i can take it from there (i have my maemo for 24h now)
Oct 20 16:26:37 <GeneralAntilles> flash firmware
Oct 20 16:26:42 <GeneralAntilles> Guess not.
Oct 20 16:26:53 <GeneralAntilles> What platform?
Oct 20 16:27:06 <j_ck> os2007 is the best i can tell for now
Oct 20 16:27:14 <GeneralAntilles> No, your computer.
Oct 20 16:27:22 <j_ck> linux - gentoo
Oct 20 16:27:42 <GeneralAntilles> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux
Oct 20 16:28:01 <j_ck> tnx
Oct 20 16:32:25 <zwnj> seems the N800 Java CDC zip file (i found the link on wiki.java.net) is not unzip-able with n800's unzip
Oct 20 16:33:03 <zwnj> and trying zip -FF, i get a lot of corruption errors
Oct 20 16:33:32 <zwnj> any suggestion?
Oct 20 16:34:06 <GeneralAntilles> Corrupted download?
Oct 20 16:34:11 <GeneralAntilles> Trip unzipping it on a real machine?
Oct 20 16:35:01 <febb> hi all
Oct 20 16:37:54 <zwnj> GeneralAntilles: i get same "End-of-central-directory signature not found." error on my ubuntu box too
Oct 20 16:38:20 <zwnj> anyone have the md5sum of the file?
Oct 20 16:38:22 <zwnj> http://thehereweb.googlepages.com/N800-java-cdc-fp-pmea-mr2-rev5444.zip
Oct 20 16:42:33 <zwnj> thanks GeneralAntilles
Oct 20 16:43:38 <zwnj> yes, correpted download!
Oct 20 17:05:22 <dpryo> Does the nokia n800 have a input for microphone? Or is the layout same as on 770?
Oct 20 17:05:58 * czr peeks
Oct 20 17:06:40 <celesteh> the jack on the side is for headphones + mic
Oct 20 17:07:15 <sciboy> That reminds me, does Maemo have a voice memo/recording app?
Oct 20 17:07:29 <celesteh> yes
Oct 20 17:07:32 <railk> isn't there a mic on top of the n800 too? or what is that?
Oct 20 17:07:34 <dpryo> Maemo Recorder
Oct 20 17:07:43 <celesteh> it's ok for voice
Oct 20 17:07:49 <celesteh> but it has a really annoying noisegate on it
Oct 20 17:07:56 <celesteh> that makes it terrible for field recordings
Oct 20 17:08:21 <celesteh> it's extremely irritating.  It might be possible to disable it.  I haven't looked
Oct 20 17:08:50 <czr> maybe because intended voip-usage?
Oct 20 17:09:45 <celesteh> i don't know if it's in hardware or software
Oct 20 17:10:08 * czr shrugs
Oct 20 17:10:15 <celesteh> the setting is also annoying for voice, since the noise gets clipped when you trigger the gate, but then slowly creeps back up when you don't
Oct 20 17:10:26 <celesteh> so silences get noisy
Oct 20 17:10:49 <celesteh> which is too bad, since the n800 would be an extremely handy field recorder
Oct 20 17:10:56 <celesteh> even if lo-fi
Oct 20 17:10:59 <czr> yup. didn't even think of that
Oct 20 17:11:36 <jani> there was some conversation on maemo devel about the schematics of the mic jack some weeks ago.
Oct 20 17:13:06 <celesteh> the gate is almost certainly in software
Oct 20 17:13:19 <DRoBeR> I'm having a trouble with a package while I'm trying to update it :S ncurse-bin. http://pastebin.com/d62775646
Oct 20 17:13:41 <DRoBeR> I'm using N800 OS 2007 :/
Oct 20 17:14:09 <DRoBeR> Is anyone having this trouble too? :S
Oct 20 17:15:38 <DRoBeR> ncurses-bin*
Oct 20 17:34:51 <GeneralAntilles> DRoBeR: dpkg -r --force-remove-reinstreq ncurses-bin
Oct 20 17:34:57 <GeneralAntilles> ncurses-bin collides with busybox
Oct 20 17:35:01 <GeneralAntilles> You don't want it
Oct 20 17:35:06 <GeneralAntilles> uninstall it and leave it gone.
Oct 20 17:35:25 <GeneralAntilles> You just want ncurses-base
Oct 20 17:45:17 <DRoBeR> Really?
Oct 20 17:45:27 <GeneralAntilles> Yes. ;)
Oct 20 17:45:39 <DRoBeR> When I try to do that... it says the classic text: "Yes, do what I say, stupid machine!"
Oct 20 17:45:44 <GeneralAntilles> I had the same problem a few months ago and shapr fixed it on his machine last night.
Oct 20 17:45:57 <MSameer> am trying to discover the protocol used by metalayer-crawler to discover music on the network ? Any tips ?
Oct 20 17:45:59 <GeneralAntilles> Doing it as root?
Oct 20 17:46:09 <MSameer> thought avahi might be involved
Oct 20 17:46:14 <MSameer> but seems not
Oct 20 17:46:28 <GeneralAntilles> It's UPnP
Oct 20 17:46:34 <MSameer> mmmmm
Oct 20 17:46:35 <MSameer> cool
Oct 20 17:46:37 <GeneralAntilles> Twonky, EyeConnect, etc.
Oct 20 17:46:39 <MSameer> thanks
Oct 20 17:47:10 <GeneralAntilles> Try ORB or TVersity for Windows
Oct 20 17:48:04 <MSameer> or gmediaserver (-:
Oct 20 17:48:17 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 20 17:48:31 * GeneralAntilles doesn't know anything about the Linux UPnP servers.
Oct 20 17:48:44 <MSameer> me too, just did an apt-get search
Oct 20 17:48:46 <GeneralAntilles> There's an MPD client (Glurp) for music, too.
Oct 20 17:48:52 <DRoBeR> Ok then. Thank you very much, GeneralAntilles.
Oct 20 17:49:02 <DRoBeR> MSameer, apt-cache
Oct 20 17:49:18 <MSameer> DRoBeR: aha yes
Oct 20 17:49:21 <patu> hi
Oct 20 17:50:30 <DRoBeR> Nice, now the same with bsdutils... I'm trying to do an apt-get dist-upgrade ;)
Oct 20 17:51:16 <DRoBeR> Damned busybox...
Oct 20 17:51:27 <patu> I have a question about N770
Oct 20 17:52:32 <GeneralAntilles> Uh, don't do that, DRoBeR.
Oct 20 17:52:40 <GeneralAntilles> You'll break shit.
Oct 20 17:52:49 <GeneralAntilles> Shoot, patu. ;)
Oct 20 17:53:16 <patu> I'm dumb I think, or something's not ok
Oct 20 17:53:26 <GeneralAntilles> So . . . what's the problem?
Oct 20 17:53:36 <patu> I bought it today and set the lock code temporarily to the last numbers of my phone number
Oct 20 17:53:42 <patu> now it wouldn't unlock
Oct 20 17:53:47 <patu> can I flash it?
Oct 20 17:53:51 <GeneralAntilles> Nope
Oct 20 17:53:55 <patu> then what?
Oct 20 17:53:56 <GeneralAntilles> Try 12345?
Oct 20 17:54:00 <patu> yes
Oct 20 17:54:02 <GeneralAntilles> Or 01234
Oct 20 17:54:11 <GeneralAntilles> Try the last numbers of your phone number?
Oct 20 17:54:21 <patu> I did
Oct 20 17:54:28 <GeneralAntilles> What did you set it to?
Oct 20 17:54:34 <zwnj> i just install CDC on n800, but i don't get it.  PhoneMEAdvanced doesn't include javax.mircoedition?
Oct 20 17:54:38 <patu> precisely?
Oct 20 17:54:44 <patu> 229986
Oct 20 17:54:50 <GeneralAntilles> and that doesn't work?
Oct 20 17:54:54 <patu> no
Oct 20 17:55:06 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe you had a typo?
Oct 20 17:55:16 <patu> two times?
Oct 20 17:55:18 <patu> maybe
Oct 20 17:55:23 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, it's happened to me. :D
Oct 20 17:55:33 <patu> but since it's new I thought I could like hard-reset it?
Oct 20 17:55:37 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise, you gotta take it to Nokia.
Oct 20 17:55:46 <GeneralAntilles> The lock-code is hardware level
Oct 20 17:55:51 <GeneralAntilles> Reflashing wont get around it.
Oct 20 17:56:23 <GeneralAntilles> You might try calling Nokia
Oct 20 17:56:27 <GeneralAntilles> see what they can tell you.
Oct 20 17:56:33 <GeneralAntilles> You in the US?
Oct 20 17:56:37 <patu> nope
Oct 20 17:56:45 <GeneralAntilles> Got any Nokia stores near you?
Oct 20 17:56:47 <patu> if I can't unlock it I'll be forced to sell it
Oct 20 17:56:52 <patu> and buy another one
Oct 20 17:57:04 <patu> I do, but they don't sell those
Oct 20 17:57:12 <GeneralAntilles> Try them
Oct 20 17:57:27 <GeneralAntilles> In the US, there aren't any Nokia stores
Oct 20 17:57:34 <GeneralAntilles> they're all cellular carrier stores
Oct 20 17:57:46 <patu> we have nokia stores here
Oct 20 17:57:47 <GeneralAntilles> so, unless you have a flagship store nearby, you have to ship it to Nokia
Oct 20 17:57:51 <GeneralAntilles> But try those Nokia stores
Oct 20 17:57:52 <patu> but they don't sell pda's
Oct 20 17:58:01 <GeneralAntilles> if they can't do it in-store, they can tell you who to send it to.
Oct 20 17:58:22 <zwnj> patu: IIRC lock-code should be exactly 5 digits
Oct 20 17:58:40 <zwnj> patu: try 22998 or 29986
Oct 20 17:58:44 <patu> then why did it let me set it to 6?
Oct 20 17:59:06 <zwnj> patu: also try 22986
Oct 20 18:01:46 <MSameer> yup, gmediaserver worked fine. cool...
Oct 20 18:01:53 <patu> zwnj you're sure it can't be six? i'd take that into accouny trying to come up with something then
Oct 20 18:02:20 <zwnj> patu: let me see
Oct 20 18:02:43 <GeneralAntilles> MSameer: Jaffa is working on an on-the-fly on-demand transcoding solution for video, too.
Oct 20 18:02:49 <GeneralAntilles> Should be pretty slick.
Oct 20 18:03:12 <MSameer> that's impressive
Oct 20 18:03:20 <DRoBeR> A good IRC client for N800? I have installed pidgin-irc but I want to connect it over a proxy and I need to send especial commands and it has not "/raw" cmd.
Oct 20 18:03:23 <MSameer> was about to try watching a divx movie ;-)
Oct 20 18:03:27 <GeneralAntilles> xchat
Oct 20 18:03:42 <MSameer> DRoBeR: heard there's xchat
Oct 20 18:03:43 <zwnj> patu: no, it's at least 5 digits
Oct 20 18:03:59 <GeneralAntilles> xchat?
Oct 20 18:04:00 <_Monkey> well, xchat is a gtk-based IRC client.  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-xchat/
Oct 20 18:04:06 <zwnj> patu: try 7 digit seqs, i.e. 2299866, etc
Oct 20 18:04:12 <DRoBeR> which mirror?
Oct 20 18:04:17 <DRoBeR> Thanks, _Monkey :)
Oct 20 18:04:17 <_Monkey> de rien DRoBeR
Oct 20 18:04:33 <DRoBeR> Merci beaucoup then.
Oct 20 18:04:34 <Fatal> DRoBeR: sure it isn't /quote ?
Oct 20 18:05:02 <DRoBeR> hmmm, I didn't try it, Fatal... ^_^U
Oct 20 18:08:41 <alterego> Wow, the N810 webpage actually works really well on the N800
Oct 20 18:09:14 <GeneralAntilles> One would hope
Oct 20 18:09:15 <GeneralAntilles> same hardware
Oct 20 18:09:27 <alterego> I kind of meant the flash stuff.
Oct 20 18:09:52 <alterego> You know how nokia have those 3D images that you can move around to look at the devices.
Oct 20 18:10:01 <alterego> It works pretty smoothly on the N800
Oct 20 18:10:01 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, right.
Oct 20 18:10:02 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 20 18:10:18 <GeneralAntilles> Should be even more awesome with OS2008
Oct 20 18:10:24 <alterego> Indeed :)
Oct 20 18:10:39 <GeneralAntilles> Now, if only for PowerVR.
Oct 20 18:10:42 <alterego> I just hope I've got ruby-maemo 1.0 out the window by then,.
Oct 20 18:10:48 <GeneralAntilles> I don't get why Nokia doesn't just pony up and get the drivers written.
Oct 20 18:10:57 <alterego> The drivers are already written.
Oct 20 18:11:05 <GeneralAntilles> Then why don't we have them. :\
Oct 20 18:11:11 <alterego> Costs money.
Oct 20 18:11:19 <alterego> That would be my guess.
Oct 20 18:11:21 <GeneralAntilles> Then PAY!
Oct 20 18:11:36 <GeneralAntilles> It's such a huge value increase.
Oct 20 18:11:36 * cesman ponders why no Ogg support....
Oct 20 18:11:49 <alterego> Well, I have a feeling we'll be seeing the PowerVR support pretty soon ;)
Oct 20 18:11:53 <GeneralAntilles> cesman, I'm guessing the first update to OS2008 will have it.
Oct 20 18:12:13 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, is that a texrat-style feeling or a random-guess feeling? :P
Oct 20 18:12:17 <cesman> I hope so...
Oct 20 18:12:35 <alterego> Well, it's kind of a psuedo-guess :)
Oct 20 18:12:45 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 20 18:12:48 <GeneralAntilles> Well, here's to hoping!
Oct 20 18:12:49 <cesman> there is no valid excuse for no Ogg
Oct 20 18:13:00 <GeneralAntilles> It's a managerial thing, would be my guess.
Oct 20 18:13:14 <alterego> I got the impression from someone on the mailing list that it was planned but they weren't exactly if/when it would happen.
Oct 20 18:13:28 <GeneralAntilles> People are bitching pretty hard about it, and I think it came up with Reggie/thoughtfix/Jonathan at the N810 launch
Oct 20 18:13:29 <alterego> sure when/if it would happen ..
Oct 20 18:13:52 <alterego> People bitch all the time.
Oct 20 18:14:31 <GeneralAntilles> Really, the better question, is why the built-in Media Player doesn't have a better plugin interface.
Oct 20 18:14:45 <cesman> :)
Oct 20 18:14:49 <GeneralAntilles> Just put together a decent interface and let 3rd parties work for you.
Oct 20 18:15:04 <pupnik> A lot of opengl stuff will require > 128MB ram and faster cpu, to run a straight port.
Oct 20 18:15:05 <cesman> GeneralAntilles: either way
Oct 20 18:15:28 <alterego> That depends on what you mean by a lot of OpenGL stuff.
Oct 20 18:15:29 <pupnik> OpenGL is a bit of a pandora's box for the tablets
Oct 20 18:15:58 <GeneralAntilles> Seems like it would be able to help out a lot of with Quake/Quake II
Oct 20 18:16:11 <GeneralAntilles> Also, how hard would it be to accelerate the GUI?
Oct 20 18:16:37 <alterego> Cairo can take advantage of OpenGL already
Oct 20 18:16:37 <pupnik> Accelerate what?
Oct 20 18:16:59 <pupnik> 1) alpha blending and 2) animations
Oct 20 18:17:00 <alterego> Anyone want to start porting beryl?
Oct 20 18:17:09 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 18:17:35 <alterego> Personally, I'd much prefer a 3D GPS app :)
Oct 20 18:17:50 <pupnik> there you go, great use
Oct 20 18:18:03 <alterego> Well, that's on my to do list.
Oct 20 18:18:23 <alterego> I'm almost a week behind my planned release of ruby-maemo >:(
Oct 20 18:18:26 <pupnik> the mapper demoed on the 810 is 3d, but not with street signs
Oct 20 18:18:49 <alterego> Well, it's kind of 3D. I meant full topographical detail.
Oct 20 18:19:28 <alterego> The software with the N810 kind of just looks like looking at a map infront of you. It's flat, but it's flat in 3D ^_^
Oct 20 18:19:34 <GeneralAntilles> Google Earth. ;)
Oct 20 18:19:43 <pupnik> anyway i think market pressure will be enough to force them to do OpenGL in 2008 on the OMAP3430
Oct 20 18:19:44 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, yeah, I mentioned that last night ;)
Oct 20 18:19:49 <bmidgley> we need a driver for the 3d accel
Oct 20 18:19:51 <GeneralAntilles> That you did. :D
Oct 20 18:20:30 <alterego> There are already drivers for the PowerVR chip.
Oct 20 18:20:40 <bmidgley> iphone glitz may be what forces it ironically
Oct 20 18:20:48 <GeneralAntilles> I don't understand how the market pressure hasn't forced them to do it for the N800 already. >_>
Oct 20 18:20:49 <bmidgley> the useless stuff i mean
Oct 20 18:20:56 <alterego> The N95 takes advantage of it, though it's not Linux :)
Oct 20 18:21:27 <bmidgley> they probably have headaches to make it OSS
Oct 20 18:21:50 <alterego> I don't see why, the wifi driver isn't OSS either is the BT driver.
Oct 20 18:22:13 <alterego> Nokia don't have any problems keeping things they want closed closed. That's why I don't understand why we don't have drivers :)
Oct 20 18:22:23 <GeneralAntilles> We'd have drivers if there hadn't been a break with 2.4 -> 2.6 kernel
Oct 20 18:22:35 <GeneralAntilles> They only have drivers for 2.4
Oct 20 18:22:43 <derf> That was forever ago.
Oct 20 18:22:54 <alterego> Yeah, there are drivers for 2.6 now.
Oct 20 18:23:01 <GeneralAntilles> Are there really?
Oct 20 18:23:07 <alterego> You can download them in binary format.
Oct 20 18:23:12 <DRoBeR> What about VPN client ipsec/strongswan/freewsan/openvpn? :) Is vpnc compatible with this?
Oct 20 18:23:14 <DRoBeR> ^_^
Oct 20 18:23:15 <alterego> Unfortunately they're not the right ABI
Oct 20 18:23:22 <GeneralAntilles> Why wont they work on the N800 now, then?
Oct 20 18:23:29 * GeneralAntilles doesn't know anything about drivers.
Oct 20 18:23:31 <alterego> They're not armel
Oct 20 18:23:43 <alterego> I believe they're the wrong endian too.
Oct 20 18:24:01 <zwnj> anyone tried to add MIDP to n800's CDC?
Oct 20 18:24:41 <patu> god, I have it -_-
Oct 20 18:24:48 <patu> I was seriously afraid there for a while
Oct 20 18:24:55 <GeneralAntilles> Now, who's going to get 500MHz for us? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84783#post84783
Oct 20 18:25:04 <zwnj> patu: what was the code?
Oct 20 18:25:09 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 20 18:25:11 <patu> 229985 -_-
Oct 20 18:25:22 <GeneralAntilles> Now, patu, change it to something you'll be sure to remember
Oct 20 18:25:22 <patu> what I thought - 1
Oct 20 18:25:24 <zwnj> lol
Oct 20 18:25:32 <patu> yeah, the problem is
Oct 20 18:25:39 <patu> I was using Palm OS pda's for years
Oct 20 18:25:47 <patu> and they accept four digits codes -_-
Oct 20 18:27:19 <truls> is it usual for programs to hang when opening a file dialog box in a bora armel target in scratchbox?
Oct 20 18:27:31 <truls> trying to pinpoint the problem, but...
Oct 20 18:27:36 <Jaffa> no
Oct 20 18:27:44 <Jaffa> dodgy NFS mounts or something?
Oct 20 18:27:52 <truls> no
Oct 20 18:28:23 <zwnj> https://phoneme.dev.java.net/phone_me_faq.html#cdc2 says i should have MIDP, but there's no javax.microedition package on my installation.  ?
Oct 20 18:28:33 <truls> stracing the qemu didn't reveal much either...
Oct 20 18:28:46 <truls> but something hangs when it tries to go through the filesystem
Oct 20 18:28:58 <truls> or rather crashes
Oct 20 18:29:56 <patu> I'll go and play now
Oct 20 18:29:57 <patu> bye
Oct 20 18:36:03 <truls> or rather segfaults
Oct 20 18:36:08 <truls> evil
Oct 20 18:44:13 * alterego eats segfaults for brunch
Oct 20 18:46:14 * truls whips up a plate
Oct 20 18:46:36 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 18:46:42 <alterego> It's dinner time now :P
Oct 20 18:47:20 <alterego> truls, qemu is somewhat unreliable. If it works fine in X86 then you might aswell just try it on device.
Oct 20 18:47:56 <truls> alterego: ah, ok, i heard it was somewhat unreliable, but didn't think it was unusable :)
Oct 20 18:48:11 <truls> i guess it's not for most though
Oct 20 18:48:41 <truls> just find it strange as i have a pretty fresh install (not much crud in the scratchbox yet), and it still fails on pretty basic stuff
Oct 20 18:48:48 <alterego> Well, I used to use it and it worked fine. But I keep getting segfaults from it under chinook :/
Oct 20 18:49:02 <alterego> Yeah, I've had the same.
Oct 20 18:49:21 <alterego> It used to work fine for me. But it's been terrible recently.
Oct 20 18:49:35 <alterego> Even after I completely blitzed->reinstalled everything.
Oct 20 18:49:38 <truls> just for chinook targets?
Oct 20 18:49:46 <truls> or recently also for bore?
Oct 20 18:49:53 <alterego> Both now.
Oct 20 18:49:58 <alterego> It used to only be chinook.
Oct 20 18:49:59 <truls> bora
Oct 20 18:50:11 <truls> so might be new version of scratchbox?
Oct 20 18:50:18 <alterego> It's possible.
Oct 20 18:50:30 <alterego> Or the version of qemu
Oct 20 18:50:35 * truls blames qemu and is done with it
Oct 20 18:50:36 <truls> yeah
Oct 20 18:50:39 <alterego> What version are you using? I haven't tried the cvs.
Oct 20 18:51:12 <truls> 0.8.2+dfsg-0ubuntu1  i assume
Oct 20 18:51:29 <truls> unless scratchbox has one internally
Oct 20 18:51:33 <alterego> Well, I'm using 0.8.2 but not ubuntu ;)
Oct 20 18:52:03 <truls> ah, it does
Oct 20 18:53:23 <truls> hm, scratchbox-devkit-cputransp is version 1.03
Oct 20 18:53:26 <truls> 1.0.3
Oct 20 18:53:53 <truls> qemu-arm -> qemu-arm-0.7.0-sb2
Oct 20 18:54:48 <truls> no, actually it uses qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2
Oct 20 18:55:05 <truls> the symlink above doesn't matter
Oct 20 18:56:26 <czr> chinook uses a more recent glibc which has instructions that don't work in qemu (armel)
Oct 20 18:56:31 <czr> just fyi.
Oct 20 18:57:03 <czr> it doesn't always trip though. simple things might work
Oct 20 18:57:24 <czr> gcc/binutils work since they're not run using qemu anyway
Oct 20 19:04:44 <timelyx> flash tends to be a no go w/ qemu
Oct 20 19:06:24 <alterego> czr, yeah, That's probably it :)
Oct 20 19:08:22 <kaltsi> qemu is only supposed to be used to compile/build stuff, running applications under qemu may or may not work and it's not officially supported in the maemo environment
Oct 20 19:09:12 <alterego> But we don't need qemu to compile or build stuff.
Oct 20 19:09:21 <czr> some people do.
Oct 20 19:09:28 <czr> people who use python to build stuff for example.
Oct 20 19:09:37 <alterego> Yeah, I guess some tools need to be compiled first.
Oct 20 19:09:37 <czr> python doesn't work in qemu/armel with chinook
Oct 20 19:09:40 <kaltsi> configure scripts do execute a simple a.out thingy to find out thingies (very techincal) :)
Oct 20 19:10:13 <alterego> Oh yeah, the tests.
Oct 20 19:10:23 <kaltsi> some stuff does get run under qemu when building packages
Oct 20 19:10:44 <alterego> Yes, I know. I was just being a bit short sighted there ;)
Oct 20 19:10:51 <kaltsi> you can take a look at /tmp/cputransp_something to see what was run under qemu
Oct 20 19:16:34 <truls> hm, i've been trying to avoid asking this, as it's such a newbie-question, but i could find no info in the docs/web: when entering text in widgets in the xserver used by scratchbox, why doesn't enter go to the next line?
Oct 20 19:18:20 <GeneralAntilles> It's reserved for fullscreen keyboard transition, I think.
Oct 20 19:21:30 <pupnik> truls, try the keypad enter key
Oct 20 19:22:43 <truls> pupnik: thanks, that worked beautifully
Oct 20 19:22:54 <truls> ctrl-j worked some times, but didn't now
Oct 20 19:23:45 <truls> pupnik: is "why?" a silly question to ask? (about why numpad enter works, and not "regular" enter)
Oct 20 19:31:49 <GeneralAntilles> Uh, because it's reserved for calling up the fullscreen keyboard. >_>
Oct 20 19:33:00 <truls> hm, so why doesnt the fullscreen keyboard appear when i press regular enter?
Oct 20 19:33:47 <GeneralAntilles> Probably because it's scratchbox.
Oct 20 19:33:53 * pupnik cooks up a nice batch of fish fillets
Oct 20 19:34:06 <truls> ok
Oct 20 19:34:28 <GeneralAntilles> Yummy
Oct 20 19:34:56 <lopz> re
Oct 20 19:35:55 <pupnik> i've figured out what imagonnado with large game packages
Oct 20 19:36:01 <pupnik> *game data
Oct 20 19:36:28 <pupnik> still use .debs for them, but have the application installer wget and unpack them onto mmc
Oct 20 19:37:37 <pupnik> that way if someone has tons of space and they want to install the data .deb the normal way - they still can
Oct 20 19:37:57 <GeneralAntilles> Nice, pupnik.
Oct 20 19:38:25 <pupnik> putzing with it right now
Oct 20 19:38:31 <timelyx> truls: ime there are two enters, and the one near shift does trigger the vkb
Oct 20 19:38:42 <timelyx> at least, it's funny watching devs here fight scratchbox
Oct 20 19:39:10 <truls> heh
Oct 20 19:39:21 <timelyx> s/vkb/fkb/
Oct 20 19:39:22 <timelyx> sorry
Oct 20 19:40:22 * DRoBeR is away: It is a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll... (This melenudo is out of Service!)
Oct 20 19:40:58 <czr> timelyx, it's the devs vs scratchbox. chinook making stuff much more interesting though :-)
Oct 20 19:41:09 * czr bets that sbox will win in the end
Oct 20 19:41:26 <timelyx> czr: i want sb2 to win
Oct 20 19:41:29 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Oct 20 19:41:34 <timelyx> let sb0.*/sb1 die
Oct 20 19:41:43 <czr> let? that's.. visual basic!
Oct 20 19:41:48 <czr> that's evil. although on par with sbox.
Oct 20 19:42:22 <czr> someone should rewrite sbox in VB though. that would really show the devs who's the master.
Oct 20 19:42:48 <derf> LET has a history that far precedes VB.
Oct 20 19:43:13 <czr> hmm. basics yes. was it used in other languages as well?
Oct 20 19:43:14 <timelyx> actually, vb doesn't really need let
Oct 20 19:43:22 <timelyx> let's been optional since what, qbasic?
Oct 20 19:45:33 <cigar> is it possible to have a non hildon app visible in the taskbar ?
Oct 20 19:51:05 <cigar> I am trying to make xfe work on my n800. It does show up but when minimized I found no easy way to get it visible again. What can I do?
Oct 20 19:51:43 <Thanatermesis> what "word" applications exists ? my GF needs to opend and edit .doc files for the university
Oct 20 19:52:01 <truls> Thanatermesis: google document editor?
Oct 20 19:52:24 <truls> or rather google docs as it's called
Oct 20 19:52:32 <Thanatermesis> hu ? i can open .rtf, .doc etc.. with google editor ?
Oct 20 19:52:37 <truls> yes
Oct 20 19:52:45 <Thanatermesis> google is crazy  lol
Oct 20 19:52:53 <truls> docs.google.com
Oct 20 19:53:00 <Thanatermesis> well but, not exists any app builded in any repo for that ? aparently abiword is not on the repos
Oct 20 19:53:43 <alterego> Yeah, abiwork really needs to be ported to the new OS
Oct 20 19:53:48 <alterego> ~abiword
Oct 20 19:53:49 <infobot> Fully featured word processor. URL: http://www.abisource.com/
Oct 20 19:53:51 <alterego> And gnumeric
Oct 20 19:53:52 <_Monkey> gnumeric is the gnu spreadsheet http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/apt/pool/user/g/gnumeric/
Oct 20 19:54:36 <renatofilho> alterego, I finish the port of abiwor now to new OS :D
Oct 20 19:54:50 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 19:54:53 <renatofilho> I will commit this today
Oct 20 19:54:54 <alterego> Cool.,
Oct 20 19:54:59 <celesteh> awesome!
Oct 20 19:55:00 <alterego> What about 2007?
Oct 20 19:55:10 <Thanatermesis> gnumeric is
Oct 20 19:55:20 <alterego> gnumeric is out of date.
Oct 20 19:55:26 <Thanatermesis> renatofilho, do you have ported abiword to bora ?
Oct 20 19:56:07 <renatofilho> I think entrunko already have the abiword packages to bora
Oct 20 19:56:28 <Thanatermesis> how i can have a "build system" ready to be used ? (any qemu image?), i want to make ports and packages and stuffs but i don't want to lost time making that system, i have a lot of things to do
Oct 20 19:57:27 <Jaffa> Thanatermesis: there are qemu and VMware images with scratchbox and the dev environment. Then <plug> http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org </plug> makes ports & packaging easier (IMNSHO)
Oct 20 19:57:39 <deejoe> Jaffa: cool
Oct 20 20:01:05 <juh0> Thanatermesis: http://setanta.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/maemo-sdk-appliance-release-03/
Oct 20 20:01:15 <Thanatermesis> renatofilho, where is the entrunko repo ? i don't found it on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationrepositories/  we can have other repo's available apart of the ones of that list ?
Oct 20 20:02:04 <Thanatermesis> thanks Jaffa, btw, about vmware... from my knowledgements vmware can't emulate ARM processors, qemu yes, how can be used on vmware then ?
Oct 20 20:02:26 <alterego> Thanatermesis, the SDK runs in vmware player.
Oct 20 20:02:35 <alterego> The SDK has qemu
Oct 20 20:02:41 <Jaffa> what he said ;)
Oct 20 20:03:41 <Thanatermesis> what ? run a virtual machine that runs a qemu ?
Oct 20 20:03:53 <alterego> Yes
Oct 20 20:03:55 <Jaffa> Yep
Oct 20 20:04:01 <Thanatermesis> heh, sounds funny :)
Oct 20 20:04:04 <Thanatermesis> ok, let me download it
Oct 20 20:04:08 * Jaffa considers a /nick alteralterego ;-)
Oct 20 20:05:06 <Thanatermesis> btw, i can simply "apt-get source" packages from debian repo sources and make the ports ?
Oct 20 20:05:53 <Jaffa> Thanatermesis: theoretically, but there are a few other bits and bobs - which is why I started mud-builder to make the process easier
Oct 20 20:06:40 <Thanatermesis> interesting, any link ?
Oct 20 20:06:47 <juh0> http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php?lang=en  Repositories for N800 and N770 Internet Tablet
Oct 20 20:06:53 <Jaffa> see above, http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/
Oct 20 20:07:45 <Thanatermesis> ok, thx
Oct 20 20:16:33 <renatofilho> Thanatermesis, I don't know and he is off now :(
Oct 20 20:20:40 <alterego> Anyone have a use for setting a gmain context when initializing osso?
Oct 20 20:20:40 <alterego> If it's useful I'll add it ..
Oct 20 20:22:02 <Jiten> http://jkaartinen.dyndns.org/~blight/mnemosyne-maemo.png the first version that's actually useful :) Still missing functionality for import/export/editing/adding and such.
Oct 20 20:22:30 <alterego> What is it?
Oct 20 20:22:37 <Jiten> flashcard program
Oct 20 20:23:17 <Jiten> quite optimally decides when to ask them again
Oct 20 20:23:26 <alterego> Ah
Oct 20 20:23:35 <alterego> Cool.
Oct 20 20:23:50 <Jiten> There was one with less optimal mechanism and an UI I couldn't figure out so I started to port this one
Oct 20 20:24:30 <Jiten> original version is done with qt so it's taken me 3 days so far to get it to this point.
Oct 20 20:28:10 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 20:28:52 <Thanatermesis> renatofilho, ok, i have installed abiword... but aparently don't opens correctly the .doc of my GF, idk, maybe is a crappy MS incompatibility thing, i need to try it on this computer, when i have time, brb
Oct 20 20:58:53 * zerojay starts down the long road of setting up a 32-bit chroot in Gentoo for the Maemo SDK...
Oct 20 20:58:54 <timely_changelog> czr: ping
Oct 20 20:58:59 <timely_changelog> do you have week 42 handy?
Oct 20 20:59:14 <timely_changelog> i have week 41 and an interesting dailog appeared, i want to know if we'r shipping w/ it :)
Oct 20 20:59:39 <czr> took me a while to realize what you meant by w42, let me check :-)
Oct 20 20:59:46 <czr> (was looking at the calendar for a while ;-)
Oct 20 20:59:50 <timely_changelog> heh
Oct 20 21:00:08 <alterego> Hahah
Oct 20 21:00:11 <czr> w38
Oct 20 21:00:27 <suihkulokki> "teh form you are about to send may be insecurely sent over interweb"
Oct 20 21:00:41 <alterego> maybe ?
Oct 20 21:03:37 * timely_changelog frowns
Oct 20 21:03:43 * czr shrugs
Oct 20 21:03:43 <timely_changelog> ok, anyone here have week 42? :)
Oct 20 21:04:23 * alterego feels left out of the minutes.
Oct 20 21:04:55 * alterego starts his own secret club.
Oct 20 21:05:01 <czr> heh
Oct 20 21:05:04 * timely_changelog starts lots of secret clubs
Oct 20 21:05:10 <timely_changelog> one per person on oaverage
Oct 20 21:05:12 <alterego> Well, libosso is almost finished, and chinook ready.
Oct 20 21:05:21 <sp3000> speaking of which
Oct 20 21:05:23 * czr does the secret wink at alterego and reminds of windows. and things flying through them.
Oct 20 21:05:23 <sp3000> timely_changelog: I don't really see centring in nofit w/o script or pos:fixed; the former jumps a bit and the latter has overflow issues
Oct 20 21:05:25 <alterego> libalarm is also almost ready.
Oct 20 21:05:39 <timely_changelog> sp3000: hrm
Oct 20 21:05:47 <timely_changelog> sp3000: do you happen to have 41 or later?
Oct 20 21:06:04 <timely_changelog> i'm trying to verify thatt we're really really stupid
Oct 20 21:06:17 <sp3000> I'm still w26 :)
Oct 20 21:06:21 <czr> hey, you should've just ask me that question
Oct 20 21:06:25 <timely_changelog> bah
Oct 20 21:06:29 <czr> I know the answer to that :-)
Oct 20 21:06:32 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 21:06:36 <timely_changelog> czr: i'm pretty sure i do too :)
Oct 20 21:06:40 <czr> :-)
Oct 20 21:07:04 <alterego> Geez, can you guys stop distracting me. :) I've got work to do dagnamit.
Oct 20 21:07:16 <czr> hmm. me too.
Oct 20 21:08:04 <timely_changelog> sp3000: anyway
Oct 20 21:08:13 <timely_changelog> visit me monday morning
Oct 20 21:08:37 <sp3000> for some value of morning
Oct 20 21:09:32 <timely_changelog> sp3000: see moznet/query
Oct 20 21:12:08 <timely_changelog> sp3000: you saw the draft for 9/, right?
Oct 20 21:12:50 <sp3000> yep ...it was still quite changeloggy
Oct 20 21:13:04 * timely_changelog nods
Oct 20 21:13:54 * timely_changelog moves the art to the top
Oct 20 21:14:08 <timely_changelog> http://swift/~timeless/blog/news/news.html <- art now above fold :)
Oct 20 21:14:43 <czr> swift?
Oct 20 21:15:31 <pickl1> Does anyone have a mirror for the chinook vmware image - http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ gives a 403
Oct 20 21:18:11 <timely_changelog> it's my computer at work :)
Oct 20 21:18:23 <timely_changelog> url is intenionally private :)
Oct 20 21:18:47 <timely_changelog> that url is equivalent to http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/news.html
Oct 20 21:19:23 <pickl1> its linked from forum nokia as the official download
Oct 20 21:20:13 <timely_changelog> if it's in svn, you can try http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/maemovmware/www/
Oct 20 21:20:49 <timely_changelog> anyway, that has all the svn content for www as of the last time i svn updated
Oct 20 21:20:58 <timely_changelog> you can figure out that detail by tacking on /.svn/
Oct 20 21:21:44 <timely_changelog> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/maemovmware/www/index.html
Oct 20 21:21:48 <timely_changelog> is the root page
Oct 20 21:22:32 <pickl1> i'm confused now
Oct 20 21:22:36 <czr> timely_changelog, figured that much. just thought that maybe it was a mistake or smt :-)
Oct 20 21:22:43 <timely_changelog> oh, if you need the vm bit, it looks like
Oct 20 21:22:53 <timely_changelog> czr: nah, "i don't make mistakes" ;-)
Oct 20 21:23:03 <timely_changelog> (i do, of course)
Oct 20 21:23:16 <timely_changelog> ... you should try the torrent
Oct 20 21:23:18 <czr> you call them "features"? :-)
Oct 20 21:23:26 <czr> or just "testing"?
Oct 20 21:23:44 <timely_changelog> alpha work
Oct 20 21:24:04 <pickl1> torrent is going at 2kB/s with 3 peers and 0 seeds :(
Oct 20 21:24:10 <timely_changelog> heh
Oct 20 21:24:26 <czr> exactly the reason why I build my own vmware images :-)
Oct 20 21:24:36 <czr> there's been talk about the images on -devel for some days now
Oct 20 21:24:46 <timely_changelog> heh
Oct 20 21:24:59 <czr> plus my images rule. that's the other reason.
Oct 20 21:25:03 <timely_changelog> well, i should be able to host a copy on timeless.justdave.net
Oct 20 21:25:12 <timely_changelog> if someone gives me a url that isn't dead :)
Oct 20 21:25:30 <pickl1> aye, there's the rub
Oct 20 21:25:44 <czr> I'd give you mine, but I can't redistribute (the image has nokia "binaries")
Oct 20 21:25:57 <timely_changelog> heh
Oct 20 21:26:01 <pickl1> i'd look after them :)
Oct 20 21:26:12 <timely_changelog> hi doublec
Oct 20 21:26:17 <czr> pickl1 :-)
Oct 20 21:26:29 <czr> pickl1, just write to -devel, maybe "someone" will see that it's really a problem
Oct 20 21:26:32 <doublec> hi timely_changelog
Oct 20 21:26:34 <czr> and do something about it
Oct 20 21:26:53 <pickl1> think i'll just throw scratchbox on my other machine and have a play
Oct 20 21:27:19 <pickl1> might as well do things properly
Oct 20 21:27:19 <czr> or you could install your own vmware image
Oct 20 21:27:38 <timely_changelog> pickl1: how about http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/download/maemo-sdk-qemu.tar.bz2
Oct 20 21:27:41 <pickl1> good point
Oct 20 21:27:54 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 21:28:18 <pickl1> is that not the bora release?
Oct 20 21:28:28 <timely_changelog> http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/download/
Oct 20 21:28:46 <timely_changelog> just use that link :)
Oct 20 21:28:50 <timely_changelog> the directory is browsable
Oct 20 21:29:18 <timely_changelog> and the files seem readable
Oct 20 21:29:28 <timely_changelog> you need to think more like a hacker
Oct 20 21:29:49 <pickl1> heh
Oct 20 21:34:37 <pickl1> downloading now, cheers for your help all
Oct 20 21:49:01 * timely_changelog sighs
Oct 20 21:49:08 <timely_changelog> some of these release notes are scary
Oct 20 21:51:00 <alterego> Well, it is almost halloween.
Oct 20 21:52:36 <timely_changelog> halloween used to mean DST
Oct 20 21:52:40 <timely_changelog> or !DST
Oct 20 21:52:46 * timely_changelog never was very clear about that
Oct 20 21:53:38 <alterego> That's funny, I didn't know the pagans had daylight saving time.
Oct 20 21:53:54 <alterego> Woo!
Oct 20 21:53:59 <alterego> Another item of the todo list :)
Oct 20 21:54:34 <alterego> Would you say having the ability to define the GMain context in calls to OSSO.initialize is important?
Oct 20 21:57:41 <timely_changelog> no
Oct 20 21:57:52 <timely_changelog> i'd say deleting glib is important
Oct 20 21:57:52 <thejapanesegeek> Are there settings that are not changed a firmware flash?
Oct 20 21:57:54 <timely_changelog> it's a POS
Oct 20 21:58:22 <timely_changelog> thejapanesegeek: the WiFi and BT ideas
Oct 20 21:58:27 <timely_changelog> s/ideas/IDs/
Oct 20 21:58:27 <infobot> timely_changelog meant: thejapanesegeek: the WiFi and BT IDs
Oct 20 21:58:47 <thejapanesegeek> you mean the mac addresses?
Oct 20 21:58:51 <timely_changelog> yes
Oct 20 21:58:55 <thejapanesegeek> How about folder structures?
Oct 20 21:59:05 <timely_changelog> good bye :)
Oct 20 21:59:12 <alterego> thejapanesegeek, if they're in the flash it get's completely rewritten.
Oct 20 21:59:14 <timely_changelog> the entire file system is replaed
Oct 20 21:59:19 <timely_changelog> unless it's on a memory card
Oct 20 21:59:24 <thejapanesegeek> Hmm...
Oct 20 21:59:49 <thejapanesegeek> I'm having some trouble getting my Extras folder back.
Oct 20 22:00:15 <thejapanesegeek> I deleted it, and it won't come back, even after several firmware flashes.
Oct 20 22:00:31 <timely_changelog> err, you could create it ..
Oct 20 22:00:40 <timely_changelog> but it'll come back if you add something that wants to live there
Oct 20 22:00:53 <thejapanesegeek> no, I can't.
Oct 20 22:01:00 <thejapanesegeek> It claims the filename is already in use.
Oct 20 22:01:05 <timely_changelog> heh
Oct 20 22:01:15 <thejapanesegeek> I filed the bug:
Oct 20 22:01:16 <thejapanesegeek> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2144
Oct 20 22:01:38 <thejapanesegeek> I was hoping that a firmware flash would fix the issue.
Oct 20 22:01:41 <thejapanesegeek> It didn't.
Oct 20 22:01:51 <thejapanesegeek> I can't install any apps now.
Oct 20 22:01:56 <alterego> O_o
Oct 20 22:01:58 <timely_changelog> nice
Oct 20 22:02:23 <alterego> I've deleted that folder loads of times and never had any issues ..
Oct 20 22:02:47 <thejapanesegeek> I don't understand it.
Oct 20 22:02:55 <timely_changelog> strace time..
Oct 20 22:03:05 <thejapanesegeek> The firmware flash should refresh everything, right?
Oct 20 22:03:12 <alterego> Yes
Oct 20 22:03:14 <timely_changelog> do you restore your backup?
Oct 20 22:03:18 <thejapanesegeek> no.
Oct 20 22:03:25 <alterego> backup? :P
Oct 20 22:03:34 <timely_changelog> ...
Oct 20 22:04:04 <timely_changelog> alterego: backup: a write once - read never medium designed to wrongfully raise hopes
Oct 20 22:04:20 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 22:04:35 <db48x> heh
Oct 20 22:06:55 <thejapanesegeek> could this have something to do with the fact that I have been installing debs manually as oppesed to via the internet?
Oct 20 22:07:16 <timely_changelog> internet?
Oct 20 22:07:26 <timely_changelog> where's application manager in this picture?
Oct 20 22:07:33 <alterego> You've been using dpkg?
Oct 20 22:07:44 <alterego> Well, that would be why then ..
Oct 20 22:08:24 <timely_changelog> resolved: invalid
Oct 20 22:08:54 <thejapanesegeek> any ideas?
Oct 20 22:09:23 <alterego> thejapanesegeek, how are you installing the package? Are you using the application installer? Or are you doing it via the console?
Oct 20 22:14:18 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 20 22:14:21 <GeneralAntilles> Just not helping some people.
Oct 20 22:14:26 <GeneralAntilles> *no
Oct 20 22:15:25 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 22:16:36 <thejapanesegeek> sorry.  cgi-irc is a terrible client.
Oct 20 22:16:42 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 22:16:48 <zerojay> The N810 manual mentions an icon in the status area for bluetooth headsets. :)
Oct 20 22:16:50 <thejapanesegeek> but it's the only one that gets through my firewall.
Oct 20 22:17:20 <alterego> zerojay, indeed. If you look at the accessories you'll see the nokia one.
Oct 20 22:17:27 <jeremyb> wow, ya'll are big
Oct 20 22:17:33 <timely_changelog> zerojay: i seem to recall that was in the n800
Oct 20 22:17:43 <GeneralAntilles> thoughtfix had one working when he did his demo.
Oct 20 22:18:02 <zerojay> Did it work well? I guess it would be time to get myself a headset then.
Oct 20 22:18:19 * GeneralAntilles recommends the Plantronics Voyager 510
Oct 20 22:19:05 <zerojay> Well, actually I just want bluetooth headphones.
Oct 20 22:19:17 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, not AD2P yet
Oct 20 22:19:29 <thejapanesegeek> altergo: in response to your question, I have been using app manager, but I've been using the "install from file" option.
Oct 20 22:19:31 <alterego> There's a manual?
Oct 20 22:19:39 <zerojay> I thought they were one and the same?
Oct 20 22:19:47 <alterego> thejapanesegeek, right
Oct 20 22:19:50 <zerojay> alterego: FCC confidentiality is up.
Oct 20 22:20:14 <thejapanesegeek> is that the problem?
Oct 20 22:20:25 <alterego> No, it shouldn't be.
Oct 20 22:21:19 <thejapanesegeek> Is it possibly just bad packages? I've tried two, but neither showed up
Oct 20 22:21:24 <timely_changelog> alterego: docs for the produc go to bed fairly early
Oct 20 22:21:32 <timely_changelog> getting things changed for them is amazingly painful
Oct 20 22:21:32 <alterego> Yeah, I know.
Oct 20 22:21:36 <timely_changelog> since they go to printers
Oct 20 22:21:37 <alterego> I've just not seen it.
Oct 20 22:21:41 <timely_changelog> i've rtied, i generally fail
Oct 20 22:22:03 <alterego> Hmm, the N810 takes a different battery to the N800
Oct 20 22:22:04 <timely_changelog> i have it on my devices and internal xrefs, presumably anyone who got a device for press got one
Oct 20 22:22:16 <timely_changelog> alterego: it takes a battery compatible w/ the e61i
Oct 20 22:22:23 <timely_changelog> which is nice, since that's the phone i have :)
Oct 20 22:22:28 <alterego> :P
Oct 20 22:22:44 <jeremyb> hehe, timely
Oct 20 22:22:44 <timely_changelog> and if you think people don't pick phones based on devices...
Oct 20 22:22:52 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 22:22:57 <timely_changelog> when they started working on the 770 they didn't have chargers for them
Oct 20 22:23:09 <timely_changelog> so they provided people 9500s to use for charging the batteries
Oct 20 22:23:16 <alterego> Haha
Oct 20 22:23:18 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Oct 20 22:23:26 <zerojay> Yeah, I have to do that sometimes at work too.
Oct 20 22:23:37 <zerojay> Pop the battery into another phone and charge it that way.
Oct 20 22:23:41 * timely_changelog nods
Oct 20 22:23:52 <timely_changelog> i took my 770 + 3 n800s on my vacation
Oct 20 22:23:56 <timely_changelog> + chargers for each
Oct 20 22:24:00 <alterego> My phone is a POS
Oct 20 22:24:01 <timely_changelog> + 2 extra batteries
Oct 20 22:24:12 <timely_changelog> mostly just o charge the bateries for 2 n800s
Oct 20 22:24:12 <alterego> But I'm too tight to buy a new one :)
Oct 20 22:24:40 <timely_changelog> i only had 1 device to charge my 3 batteries for my e61i whichi made it a problem when i ran through my batteries :(
Oct 20 22:25:25 <timely_changelog> next time i travel, i'll just take spare n810s :)
Oct 20 22:25:38 <alterego> Do you buy them all?
Oct 20 22:25:46 <alterego> Seems a little extravagant :P
Oct 20 22:26:13 <timely_changelog> so far nokia has given me a 770, a 9300i, an n800, an e61i and has promised an n81-8g and an n810
Oct 20 22:26:27 <zerojay> I'm sure they toss N95's around like newspapers.
Oct 20 22:26:29 <timely_changelog> the n800s i travelled w/ were requisitioned
Oct 20 22:26:46 <timely_changelog> he n81s are being tossed around like newspapers
Oct 20 22:27:04 * alterego is jealous
Oct 20 22:27:17 <alterego> I've not had a decent phone since my 7650 :)
Oct 20 22:27:22 <zerojay> LOL
Oct 20 22:27:27 <alterego> I've just been buying crappy disposable ones.
Oct 20 22:27:27 <zerojay> Dude, are you serious?
Oct 20 22:27:30 <alterego> Yup.
Oct 20 22:27:35 <zerojay> 7650 is horrible.
Oct 20 22:27:42 <alterego> It's in pieces unfortunately.
Oct 20 22:27:55 <zerojay> Its JVM has a massive memory leak whenever GetResourceAsStream is used.
Oct 20 22:27:57 <alterego> I did a bit of work for Symbian.
Oct 20 22:28:21 <alterego> Hey, at the time that phone was the coolest thing out there :P
Oct 20 22:28:49 <zerojay> I was stuck testing it's brother, the 3650 (same problem) for almost a month straight.
Oct 20 22:28:57 <zerojay> Had to reboot it every 15 minutes. :/
Oct 20 22:29:01 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 22:29:32 <alterego> Right now I'm using my sisters old phone. Some crappy sony ericcson.
Oct 20 22:29:46 <alterego> The VGA camera lens has come off.
Oct 20 22:29:48 <zerojay> Gameloft came to us and told us to just give up... there's no way to work around it.
Oct 20 22:29:52 <alterego> As well as a small plastic panel at the top.
Oct 20 22:30:19 <alterego> It's also got some very suspect signal connection habits and charging is a bit awkward too.
Oct 20 22:30:59 <zerojay> Most of the SE's are decent.
Oct 20 22:31:06 <alterego> This is very old.
Oct 20 22:31:21 <alterego> Old and cheap by the looks of it.
Oct 20 22:31:28 <zerojay> Stay away from the Samsung A650 unless you enjoy getting a static shock every time you touch it while it's charging.
Oct 20 22:31:35 <alterego> Hahah
Oct 20 22:31:39 <alterego> Nice!
Oct 20 22:31:40 <db48x> oohh, that sounds fun
Oct 20 22:32:03 <alterego> To be honest, I really don't like phones.
Oct 20 22:32:10 <alterego> I only have one because I _need_ it ..
Oct 20 22:32:10 <db48x> neither do I
Oct 20 22:32:20 <zerojay> I hate phones.
Oct 20 22:32:20 <db48x> I want a real wearable computer
Oct 20 22:32:32 <zerojay> I hated them before, I hate them now after working with them for two years straight.
Oct 20 22:32:38 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 22:32:42 <zerojay> db48x: Yeah, same here.
Oct 20 22:32:53 <alterego> It's like, (ring ring) oh, it's my phone.
Oct 20 22:33:05 * alterego gets the urge to hurl it off the nearest bridge.
Oct 20 22:33:10 <db48x> heh
Oct 20 22:33:18 <zerojay> Heh... some of the testers have found some of the funniest ringtones.
Oct 20 22:33:36 <zerojay> Some of those on the Disco Phone (Nokia 3220) are hilariously funny.
Oct 20 22:33:38 <alterego> If they didn't ring I think I'd like them more :)
Oct 20 22:34:13 <alterego> So, what's with libalarm?
Oct 20 22:34:22 <alterego> Where are the headers for all the gobjects?
Oct 20 22:36:31 <alterego> This is silly, how can you have API documentation for something that doesn't even exist?!
Oct 20 22:38:15 <zerojay> Imagination is a wonderful thing.
Oct 20 22:38:28 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 22:38:37 <GeneralAntilles> Wasn't libalarm removed in one of the recent updates?
Oct 20 22:38:42 <alterego> O_O
Oct 20 22:38:49 <alterego> Why is it in Chinook then?
Oct 20 22:38:57 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno
Oct 20 22:39:05 <alterego> There's some of libalarm
Oct 20 22:39:09 <alterego> Just not the glib objects.
Oct 20 22:39:27 <GeneralAntilles> Where's that big list of package changes from Bora to Chinook?
Oct 20 22:39:27 <alterego> Which is annoying, because I like binding glib objectx >:(
Oct 20 22:39:40 <alterego> s/objectx/objectx
Oct 20 22:39:42 <alterego> s/objectx/objects
Oct 20 22:39:44 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 22:40:18 <alterego> I suppose I should be happy really, one less thing to do ..
Oct 20 22:41:39 <alterego> No libcrt either?
Oct 20 22:42:07 <GeneralAntilles> Would Cairo have anything to do with the PowerVR driver predictions?
Oct 20 22:42:19 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, not really.
Oct 20 22:42:31 <alterego> Cairo is because of Gtk 2.10
Oct 20 22:42:44 <alterego> >2.8 requires Cairo
Oct 20 22:43:12 * alterego contemplates something for a few minutes.
Oct 20 22:49:29 <Jiten> any ideas on how to track what is creating this extra window my program seems to be creating?
Oct 20 22:50:04 <Jiten> it likely has something to do with this hildonglade.py that I modified a bit so it actually works.
Oct 20 22:52:42 <Jiten> yes, changing the program to use gtk.glade.XML instead of hildonglade.XML makes it work. I guess hildonglade.py does imperfect job destroying the gtk.window that glade creates
Oct 20 23:00:14 <|tbb|> anyone knows if the wlan adapter of the n810 is the same chip as on the n800
Oct 20 23:00:41 <timely_changelog> presumably the fcc filings?
Oct 20 23:08:10 <_Logic_> greetings. Any n800 devs alive here?
Oct 20 23:11:36 <alterego> I develop on the n800
Oct 20 23:11:47 <_Logic_> I failed miserably configuring my FC7 system. As far as I could tell, using an AMD64 (even with a 32 bit install) doesn't work with scratchbox.
Oct 20 23:11:58 <alterego> O_o
Oct 20 23:12:01 <alterego> Install debian
Oct 20 23:12:16 <zerojay> _Logic_: Crap, don't say that. I'm in the middle of doing a 32-bit chroot for it. ;/
Oct 20 23:12:19 <_Logic_> Will that work with a 64-bit architecture?
Oct 20 23:12:35 <alterego> zerojay, you're not using FC :P
Oct 20 23:12:43 <zerojay> Thankfully.
Oct 20 23:13:05 <alterego> Someone should really do a good tutorial on this ..
Oct 20 23:13:08 <_Logic_> I tried getting Ubuntu and Kubunti (32 bit and 64 bit) installed. It hangs in what appears to be partition detection
Oct 20 23:13:21 <alterego> 64 bit machines are common place now ..
Oct 20 23:13:24 <_Logic_> What I would *love* is an install CD with everything needed for the dev platform
Oct 20 23:13:37 <_Logic_> I'll buy a 32 bit system if I can hit the ground running :)
Oct 20 23:13:40 <alterego> LiveCD.
Oct 20 23:13:43 <zerojay> I'm installing scratchbox on my Gentoo 64-bit box. Hoping it'll go well.
Oct 20 23:13:49 <alterego> I think there is a Live CD floating around.
Oct 20 23:13:55 <alterego> If not there's always the VMWare image.
Oct 20 23:14:03 <alterego> Which you can use with VMWare player.
Oct 20 23:14:20 <alterego> Meh, gentoo.
Oct 20 23:14:38 <alterego> Only weirdos use that dist :P
Oct 20 23:14:46 <zerojay> Control freaks. ;)
Oct 20 23:14:51 <_Logic_> arg. need to go make some dinner for the kiddos. bbl
Oct 20 23:15:07 <alterego> I'm more of a perfectionist than a control freak.
Oct 20 23:15:12 <alterego> I guess that's why I use Debian :P
Oct 20 23:15:25 <zerojay> That would be one reason I'd stay away from Debian.
Oct 20 23:15:38 <zerojay> I can't stand it.
Oct 20 23:15:46 <alterego> Debian is _the_ best Linux OS.
Oct 20 23:15:51 <alterego> Gentoo isn't even in the top 10
Oct 20 23:15:56 <alterego> Well, top 5
Oct 20 23:16:04 <celesteh> holy war alaert!
Oct 20 23:16:05 <zerojay> Debian's horrible. Dependancies are complete hell.
Oct 20 23:16:13 <alterego> Heh
Oct 20 23:16:13 <zerojay> dependencies.
Oct 20 23:16:18 <celesteh> s/alaert/alert/
Oct 20 23:16:20 <infobot> celesteh meant: holy war alert!
Oct 20 23:16:38 <alterego> I can't believe you're saying that when you use the most broken package management system invented for Linux :P
Oct 20 23:16:42 <derf> You make being a weirdo sound bad.
Oct 20 23:16:44 * celesteh ets out holy relics and religious symbols
Oct 20 23:16:52 <zerojay> I got so tired of hunting down .deb B and .deb C compiled properly so that .deb A would work without bloat all over the place.
Oct 20 23:17:01 <alterego> O_o
Oct 20 23:17:10 <celesteh> debian has better tools for music than many otehr distros
Oct 20 23:17:13 <alterego> You see, that's your control freak side.
Oct 20 23:17:15 <celesteh> unless i'm thinking of fedora
Oct 20 23:17:21 <pupnik> funny, i have no problems with sidux (debian sid)
Oct 20 23:17:41 <alterego> I can't say I've ever had any problems with debian.
Oct 20 23:17:42 <zerojay> I generally just want stuff to work.. without hunting for stuff constantly or using some really really old packages.
Oct 20 23:17:49 <alterego> This just work and they work in tune with how I think.
Oct 20 23:18:13 <pupnik> gentoo was a good learning experience
Oct 20 23:18:14 <zerojay> It was good for an old laptop that I had.. but I couldn't even imagine running that for a desktop.
Oct 20 23:18:18 <alterego> I _understand_ how debian operates, the choices the team make are the choices I'd probably make.
Oct 20 23:18:35 * celesteh still likes slackware
Oct 20 23:18:43 <pupnik> :)
Oct 20 23:18:47 <akai-> hi
Oct 20 23:18:48 <_Monkey> bonjour, akai-
Oct 20 23:19:00 <pupnik> "whatever works for you, is good"
Oct 20 23:19:02 <zerojay> Slack was alright for a while though it's not been as good since Pat got sick a year or two ago.
Oct 20 23:19:04 <alterego> gentoo, well. It's so broken.
Oct 20 23:19:07 <x2> hey guys
Oct 20 23:19:10 <x2> i have a questing
Oct 20 23:19:14 <x2> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card
Oct 20 23:19:15 <alterego> I've never used slack but I've heard good things about it.
Oct 20 23:19:19 <x2> i have 07 hacker
Oct 20 23:19:27 <x2> so I should do the steps fr the n800 right?
Oct 20 23:19:29 <zerojay> alterego: People throw that word around constantly. The fact that my box works perfectly fine shows that it's not broken. :)
Oct 20 23:19:42 <alterego> zerojay, no, it shows you're lucky.
Oct 20 23:19:48 <alterego> Or you're not trying hard enough :P
Oct 20 23:20:01 <alterego> We'll see how successful your sbox install is :P
Oct 20 23:20:09 <x2> anyone?
Oct 20 23:20:09 <x2> :/
Oct 20 23:20:15 <derf> My 32-bit sbox install worked perfectly on Gentoo.
Oct 20 23:20:23 <zerojay> A string of 6 years of good luck? I'd say that's pretty good. :)
Oct 20 23:20:24 <alterego> x2, no.
Oct 20 23:20:28 <x2> oh?
Oct 20 23:20:28 <derf> On 32-bit Gentoo, I should say.
Oct 20 23:20:42 <zerojay> derf: That's what I'm worried about... but we'll see.
Oct 20 23:20:57 <timely_changelog> the only good linux is a dead linux :)
Oct 20 23:21:01 <derf> I haven't tried it on my 64-bit Gentoo box.
Oct 20 23:21:10 <zerojay> derf: I'll let you know how it goes.
Oct 20 23:21:20 <alterego> I can't take the risk with gentoo.
Oct 20 23:21:29 <x2> alterego?
Oct 20 23:21:30 <_Monkey> i guess alterego is yes ;)
Oct 20 23:21:32 <alterego> In theory it's a nice idea but it's just not worth it.
Oct 20 23:21:33 <zerojay> alterego: Risk of...?
Oct 20 23:21:56 <alterego> Stability, it breaking and me having to spend an hour or so reinstalling again.
Oct 20 23:22:03 <timely_changelog> _monkey forget alterego
Oct 20 23:22:04 <_Monkey> timely_changelog: I forgot alterego
Oct 20 23:22:06 <alterego> These are things that just wont happen under debian.
Oct 20 23:22:13 <timely_changelog> _monkey alterego is <reply>
Oct 20 23:22:14 <_Monkey> OK, timely_changelog.
Oct 20 23:22:21 <zerojay> alterego: You should talk to our IT guy then.
Oct 20 23:22:45 <alterego> Just like, I wouldn't trust anything but debian on my servers.
Oct 20 23:22:51 <alterego> Anything else would be crazy !
Oct 20 23:22:52 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 23:23:09 <derf> In my experience, no distro I've ever seen properly handles upgrading software on a live system.
Oct 20 23:23:16 <derf> 99% of the time things work.
Oct 20 23:23:22 <timely_changelog> 90%
Oct 20 23:23:23 <derf> But I have a lot more than 100 packages installed.
Oct 20 23:23:26 <zerojay> We tried it... we encountered so many problems that the company just decided to wipe it out after three days and they replaced it with.. I think it's SuSE.
Oct 20 23:23:44 <timely_changelog> the other 9% of the time you just don't notice the corruption until later :)
Oct 20 23:23:49 <derf> The difference between Gentoo and Debian is that on Gentoo, I can _always_ find a way to fix it.
Oct 20 23:23:51 <alterego> zerojay, your "IT guy" obviously wasn't very useful.
Oct 20 23:23:58 <alterego> Which is sad.
Oct 20 23:24:02 <zerojay> alterego: Bzzzzt. Try again.
Oct 20 23:24:13 <alterego> I'm not convinced.
Oct 20 23:24:30 <alterego> I can setup a LAMP install with debian in about 10 minutes.
Oct 20 23:24:40 <zerojay> That's fine. You don't need to be. You weren't there for the days upon days of deailing with broken packages and libraries that no longer existed, etc...
Oct 20 23:25:00 <alterego> zerojay, sounds like you're talking about another OS. You wouldn't get that with debian.
Oct 20 23:25:09 <zerojay> Got that with Debian.
Oct 20 23:25:11 <derf> alterego: It sounds like you're living with your head in the sand.
Oct 20 23:25:16 <derf> That sounds _exactly_ like Debian.
Oct 20 23:25:21 <alterego> O_o
Oct 20 23:25:33 <alterego> Maybe the unstable tree ..
Oct 20 23:25:39 <derf> I never ran unstable.
Oct 20 23:25:47 <zerojay> And once broken packages make it into Debian, it takes *ages* to get them fixed.
Oct 20 23:25:55 <alterego> I remember I once installed an unstable package and it actually uninstalled half of my system.
Oct 20 23:25:59 <alterego> That was quite fun.
Oct 20 23:26:04 <derf> Yes, that also.
Oct 20 23:26:14 <x2> LOL
Oct 20 23:26:19 <derf> But substitute testing for unstable.
Oct 20 23:26:29 <alterego> Well, I've never had a broken package like you describe. Not outside of unstable.
Oct 20 23:26:37 <zerojay> Debian's got some upsides to it, that's for sure... but it just wasn't working out for us. I had far less problems with it on an old laptop though, but I never really installed much on that anyways.
Oct 20 23:26:47 <alterego> Yeah well, I wouldn't use anything but stable now.
Oct 20 23:26:49 <derf> Then you are either phenomenally lucky, or you throw your computers away every 6 months.
Oct 20 23:26:55 <alterego> If I want something new I'll compile it myself.
Oct 20 23:27:02 <zerojay> Gentoo's not the sort of thing you'd usually use on production machines most of the time either.
Oct 20 23:27:10 <derf> Oh, good God now.
Oct 20 23:27:12 <derf> No.
Oct 20 23:27:26 <derf> But for a personal development machine? Yes, please.
Oct 20 23:27:38 <alterego> Riiight ..
Oct 20 23:28:05 <derf> Though I know a guy who uses Gentoo for all his production machines.
Oct 20 23:28:06 <zerojay> I've built a few Gentoo boxes for people... the only downside is the compilation time, but that's barely noticable anymore anyways.
Oct 20 23:28:14 <alterego> debian: server; gentoo: toy robot;
Oct 20 23:28:18 <alterego> That's what I'd use those for.
Oct 20 23:28:32 <alterego> Heh, barely noticeable ..
Oct 20 23:28:49 <zerojay> It's nice being able to type one command and have everything you need installed to run it and not have to worry about a bazillion extra programs being installed because a packager compiled it with every option possible.
Oct 20 23:28:55 <alterego> Why, why compile the whole system?
Oct 20 23:29:06 <alterego> For a 0.1% speed increase? :P
Oct 20 23:29:10 <zerojay> You don't have to. I just like to do it.
Oct 20 23:29:11 <zerojay> No.
Oct 20 23:29:14 <Jiten> you know, I'm using a mix of Debian etch and testing/unstable and your problems sounds just unimaginable. I haven't had any problems I couldn't fix in 10 minutes.
Oct 20 23:29:19 <zerojay> So that you can exclude the crap you don't need.
Oct 20 23:29:21 <jeremyb> timelyx: is there a microb channel?
Oct 20 23:29:23 <derf> It has nothing to do with speed.
Oct 20 23:29:29 <zerojay> Which equals less possibility of security problems.
Oct 20 23:29:34 <alterego> Jiten, exactly :)
Oct 20 23:29:38 <zerojay> Less cruft you'd never need.
Oct 20 23:29:49 * jeremyb wonders how microb is pronounced
Oct 20 23:29:57 <alterego> microbe?
Oct 20 23:29:59 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 23:30:02 <jeremyb> hehe
Oct 20 23:30:03 <alterego> Or Micro Bee
Oct 20 23:30:06 <zerojay> I just say Micro-Bee.
Oct 20 23:30:14 <alterego> Yeah, me too.
Oct 20 23:30:22 * jeremyb has no tablet :-/
Oct 20 23:30:24 <alterego> I think I'll start calling it Microbe from now on though, It's cooler.
Oct 20 23:30:30 <jeremyb> hehe
Oct 20 23:31:27 <derf> I mean, I started using Debian at potato.
Oct 20 23:31:36 <derf> By sarge, I gave up.
Oct 20 23:31:47 <TPC> ha
Oct 20 23:31:48 <zerojay> I don't remember which we were using at the time.
Oct 20 23:31:59 <TPC> debian potato was my first distro
Oct 20 23:32:03 <TPC> I didn't know anything about linux
Oct 20 23:32:09 <alterego> Mandrake was my first :X
Oct 20 23:32:11 <alterego> Then sarge
Oct 20 23:32:14 <TPC> I got the install and tried installing.. and failed miserably
Oct 20 23:32:17 <TPC> ahh.. the memories
Oct 20 23:32:31 <zerojay> Mandrake was my first install of Linux I did with X.
Oct 20 23:32:52 <zerojay> Before that.. I think a console only version of VectorLinux.
Oct 20 23:32:53 <alterego> Then LFS, then FC, then Ubuntu, then debian again, and now etch :)
Oct 20 23:33:11 <alterego> I missed gentoo.
Oct 20 23:33:15 <deejoe> slackware
Oct 20 23:33:16 <_Monkey> slackware is the only os I have tried so far that fights setite's network card
Oct 20 23:33:19 <alterego> It wouldn't do anything.
Oct 20 23:33:25 <alterego> Kept screwing everything up.
Oct 20 23:33:30 <alterego> So I went to LFS
Oct 20 23:33:34 * deejoe installed it with floppies.  lots. of. floppies.
Oct 20 23:33:40 <jj-> Is there some feature equal to gentoo use-flags in debian apt-get ?
Oct 20 23:34:11 <alterego> apt-get doesn't compile packages jj-
Oct 20 23:34:22 <deejoe> jj- I think you can set some defaults for apt-build
Oct 20 23:34:24 <zerojay> You probably didn't read the (admittedly lengthy) installation docs for Gentoo then... everyone I know that had problems just didn't read it or didn't know enough about their system (built for the wrong arch, for example).
Oct 20 23:34:30 <Jiten> I heard it's possible to set apt up to compile everything
Oct 20 23:34:33 <jj-> alterego: Yeah, I know that, that is why I'm asking =)
Oct 20 23:34:33 <zerojay> Or got tired of dealing with it.
Oct 20 23:34:41 <alterego> zerojay, I was reading them from start to finish.
Oct 20 23:34:55 <alterego> Jiten, yeah. It's pretty cool.
Oct 20 23:35:01 <zerojay> Yeah, I know. That's what they all say. ;)
Oct 20 23:35:02 <deejoe> jj-, Jiten: http://julien.danjou.info/article-apt-build.html
Oct 20 23:35:14 <derf> I actually hate the new automated Gentoo installer.
Oct 20 23:35:19 <derf> I still do it from scratch by hand.
Oct 20 23:35:19 <zerojay> derf: Same here.
Oct 20 23:35:20 <alterego> zerojay, that's what I say.
Oct 20 23:35:28 <zerojay> What a horrible piece of crap it is.
Oct 20 23:35:41 <derf> Of course, I hated Debian's installer, also.
Oct 20 23:35:48 <zerojay> Debian's wasn't bad.
Oct 20 23:35:51 <alterego> the etch installer is nice.
Oct 20 23:36:03 <alterego> the Gtk framebuffer installer that is
Oct 20 23:36:19 <zerojay> I haven't played with their latest ones though, but most of the time, it went well enough.
Oct 20 23:36:22 <TPC> I used gentoo for years
Oct 20 23:36:27 <alterego> The old sarge one was pretty easy. As long as you knew what a partition was etc.
Oct 20 23:36:30 <TPC> but I stopped about 6 months ago
Oct 20 23:36:38 <TPC> the quality control of gentoo has been bad lately
Oct 20 23:36:56 <zerojay> Yeah, there's been a few more problems than usual lately.
Oct 20 23:37:04 <zerojay> A few key people getting burned out.
Oct 20 23:37:22 <derf> Gentoo does need to do a better job of recruiting competent volunteers.
Oct 20 23:37:25 <TPC> broken packages not getting fixed, non-essential packages not getting new versions for over a year even thought a simple version change in the ebuild is all that is required, bug reports not getting attention, etc
Oct 20 23:37:42 <TPC> gentoo has too few good developers for a distro of its size
Oct 20 23:37:52 <TPC> no one to take care of the non-core packages
Oct 20 23:37:53 <derf> But I do not know a distro for which that is not true.
Oct 20 23:37:56 <zerojay> I haven't come across any real problems though. Nothing that wasn't a quick text file fix away.
Oct 20 23:38:09 <zerojay> But I know a few people that have.
Oct 20 23:38:21 <TPC> well, debian has many developers that are only responsible for one or a few packages
Oct 20 23:38:34 <TPC> that works well, since there is a maintainer for each package
Oct 20 23:38:37 <TPC> there is always someone who cares
Oct 20 23:38:48 <alterego> :)
Oct 20 23:38:49 <zerojay> If they're still involved with the project, anyways.
Oct 20 23:38:49 <TPC> freebsd do the same thing with their ports system
Oct 20 23:38:53 <derf> I was very impressed by the Theora package maintainer.
Oct 20 23:39:07 <TPC> and often the package maintainer in debian is the author of the software
Oct 20 23:39:16 <alterego> Yeah
Oct 20 23:39:21 <alterego> Which is even better :)
Oct 20 23:39:23 <TPC> which is nice for getting bugs fixed and new versions pushed into unstable
Oct 20 23:39:39 <zerojay> Most of the time, but I did come across quite a few completely abandoned packages as well.
Oct 20 23:40:06 <TPC> yes, there will obviously always be a few packages where the maintainer left and no one new has stepped up
Oct 20 23:40:07 <zerojay> FreeBSD is pretty good about their stuff as well.
Oct 20 23:40:48 <TPC> here is a list: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned
Oct 20 23:41:05 <zerojay> Ports is generally good, but there were a few times where it didn't know what to do anymore.
Oct 20 23:41:12 <TPC> altought 300 packages out of (last time I saw a figure, which was at least a year ago) 15000 packages isn't that bad
Oct 20 23:42:13 <zerojay> I wouldn't mind going back to FreeBSD... though if I make a switch anytime soon, I'm going to give OpenSolaris a shot.
Oct 20 23:42:48 <zerojay> Mainly because I haven't played with it and want to learn more about it.
Oct 20 23:42:54 <zerojay> Agogo: IRC as root?
Oct 20 23:42:59 <x2> wtf
Oct 20 23:43:04 <x2> i installed xterm
Oct 20 23:43:15 <x2> and when I do sudo gainroot
Oct 20 23:43:36 <x2> I get a message saying "enable RD mode if you want to break your device"
Oct 20 23:43:42 <x2> what am I doing wrong?
Oct 20 23:43:47 <TPC> I wouldn't mind going to freebsd again as well
Oct 20 23:44:09 <TPC> except that all my disks are encrypted with dm-crypt
Oct 20 23:44:17 <TPC> which is linux-only
Oct 20 23:44:39 <TPC> x2, I suggest you install a ssh server
Oct 20 23:45:00 <TPC> and then ssh to the root account on the device
Oct 20 23:45:05 <TPC> and add yourself to sudoers
Oct 20 23:45:13 <x2> o.0
Oct 20 23:45:19 <x2> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot
Oct 20 23:47:01 <TPC> x2, I think thats only for the 770
Oct 20 23:47:12 <x2> i have the 770
Oct 20 23:47:26 <x2> that should be for both though
Oct 20 23:47:54 <TPC> ah, well, then I have no idea
Oct 20 23:48:34 <TPC> but the ssh approach is easy and works
Oct 20 23:50:35 <x2> rofl
Oct 20 23:50:37 <x2> i gots it
Oct 20 23:52:45 <alterego> Hmm, I might actually finish ConIc before I go to bed.
Oct 20 23:52:49 <alterego> Though it is 1am :S
Oct 20 23:53:09 <TPC> only 1 in you're timezone? you're lucky :P
Oct 20 23:53:14 <TPC> almost 2 here
Oct 20 23:56:07 <alterego> I think I'll just finish this class.
Oct 20 23:57:17 <alterego> Which I've just done :)
Oct 20 23:57:46 * sp3000 likes the first too sections of that doc
Oct 20 23:58:02 <sp3000> two even
Oct 20 23:58:20 * sp3000 looks for the edit bar
Oct 20 23:58:52 * sp3000 fullscreens his browser and finds it peeking on the right
Oct 20 23:59:43 * alterego imports the new code into SVN and gets naked.
Oct 20 23:59:46 <alterego> SVN makes me horny.
Oct 21 00:00:17 <timely_changelog> svn sucks
Oct 21 00:00:18 <deejoe> TMI
Oct 21 00:00:26 <alterego> You suck :P
Oct 21 00:01:21 <alterego> Are hornets fatal?
Oct 21 00:02:02 <alterego> Meh, whatever. Good night folks.
Oct 21 00:05:53 <x2> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card
Oct 21 00:06:08 <x2> where is mbcache.ko located?
Oct 21 00:06:18 <celesteh> cvn makes hir what??!
Oct 21 00:06:26 <celesteh> s/cvn/svn/
Oct 21 00:06:27 <infobot> celesteh meant: svn makes hir what??!
Oct 21 00:06:43 <x2> ?
Oct 21 00:08:50 <x2> how do I find a file?
Oct 21 00:08:55 <x2> from xterm
Oct 21 00:10:52 <TPC> find and grep
Oct 21 00:11:01 <TPC> its crude, but effective
Oct 21 00:11:21 <TPC> find / | grep -i <word>
Oct 21 00:11:25 <TPC> where word is part of the file name
Oct 21 00:11:41 <x2> thanks!
Oct 21 00:11:44 <deejoe> find / -name "*word*"
Oct 21 00:12:16 <deejoe> I expect find / | grep to bomb with an error about too many arguments
Oct 21 00:12:49 <TPC> deejoe, eh?
Oct 21 00:13:00 <TPC> find passes its findings to grep using stdin
Oct 21 00:13:03 <TPC> not as arguments
Oct 21 00:13:04 <deejoe> yes
Oct 21 00:13:07 <deejoe> ah
Oct 21 00:13:13 <deejoe> hmm
Oct 21 00:13:43 <x2> holy mother
Oct 21 00:13:44 <pupnik> someday i want to find a tablet with default password, ssh-in and run the echoplex script
Oct 21 00:13:49 <x2> i think that worked
Oct 21 00:13:57 <x2> brb wjile I try to mount the rest of my mmc card
Oct 21 00:14:04 <TPC> deejoe, your way uses slightly less kernel resources
Oct 21 00:14:15 <TPC> but I doubt you would notice any difference :P
Oct 21 00:14:15 <pupnik> echoes the mic-in to gstreamer output for a nifty echo box :)
Oct 21 00:14:44 <deejoe> TPC: yes, TMTOWTDI
Oct 21 00:14:46 <deejoe> :-)
Oct 21 00:16:31 * jeremyb didn't notice sp sp3000 was here
Oct 21 00:17:25 <x2> omfg
Oct 21 00:17:34 <x2> why cant i mount this partition :(
Oct 21 00:26:29 <timely_changelog> hrm, can someone tell me who or what this lady is and why she's on tv?  http://www.nelonen.fi/alastonhollywood/
Oct 21 00:27:13 <timely_changelog> tpc: btw do you have a blog you'd want credited?
Oct 21 00:29:26 <TPC> timely_changelog, no, I don't have a blog
Oct 21 00:29:42 <timely_changelog> would you want a name credited or just TPC?
Oct 21 00:30:53 <TPC> TPC is fine, if you want to you can include my e-mail, andreas@tpwch.com
Oct 21 00:32:12 <timely_changelog> disq: same offer
Oct 21 00:33:10 <x2> how do I cd to the documents folder?
Oct 21 00:33:15 <x2> # cd /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/
Oct 21 00:33:24 <x2> tried that btu it says I cant cd there
Oct 21 00:33:50 <TPC> whats the exact error?
Oct 21 00:34:07 <x2> can't cd to "path"
Oct 21 00:34:18 <x2> path being whatever I type
Oct 21 00:34:29 <timely_changelog> try it piecemeal
Oct 21 00:34:31 <timely_changelog> cd /
Oct 21 00:34:33 <timely_changelog> cd home
Oct 21 00:34:35 <timely_changelog> cd user
Oct 21 00:34:37 <timely_changelog> cd MyDocs
Oct 21 00:34:42 <timely_changelog> cd .documents
Oct 21 00:35:05 <TPC> hm.. busybox cd doesn't give the same error messages as bash cd
Oct 21 00:35:16 <x2> ahh
Oct 21 00:35:18 <TPC> I suppose that is to be expected, more general error messages to save disk space
Oct 21 00:35:21 <x2> wtf
Oct 21 00:35:27 <x2> no mydoc folder
Oct 21 00:35:45 <timely_changelog> busybox is fiarly sucky
Oct 21 00:35:51 <x2> how do i dir list
Oct 21 00:35:57 <TPC> ls
Oct 21 00:36:02 <x2> ty
Oct 21 00:36:04 <celesteh> busybox?
Oct 21 00:36:05 <_Monkey> busybox is, like, weak by default
Oct 21 00:36:10 <celesteh> what is it?
Oct 21 00:36:19 <x2> i type ls
Oct 21 00:36:26 <x2> it shows Mydocs
Oct 21 00:36:29 <x2> cd Mydocs
Oct 21 00:36:30 <x2> wont do it
Oct 21 00:36:31 <x2> lol
Oct 21 00:36:44 <solmumaha> it's case sensitive
Oct 21 00:36:50 <x2> yea
Oct 21 00:36:50 <celesteh> oh, you're trying to get to your home dir
Oct 21 00:36:54 <x2> oh.
Oct 21 00:36:56 <x2> fuck me
Oct 21 00:37:00 <celesteh> maybe later
Oct 21 00:37:07 <timely_changelog> in scratchbox it's not 'user'
Oct 21 00:37:08 <x2> LOL
Oct 21 00:37:12 <timely_changelog> it's typically your username
Oct 21 00:37:13 <x2> im n00b
Oct 21 00:37:18 <x2> thanls Solarion
Oct 21 00:37:21 <x2> solmumaha
Oct 21 00:37:47 <TPC> celesteh, its a software project, it has a minimal version of core utilities like the shell, ls, mount, chown, and so on
Oct 21 00:38:02 <TPC> all in one statically linked binary that isn't taking up alot of space
Oct 21 00:38:15 <TPC> then you can symlink things like /bin/ls to it and it will work like the real thing
Oct 21 00:38:20 <x2> ahh
Oct 21 00:38:22 <x2> untaring
Oct 21 00:38:23 <TPC> its nice for emergencies
Oct 21 00:38:33 <TPC> say if you broke libc
Oct 21 00:38:47 <celesteh> aren't those commands built-in when you install the xterm?
Oct 21 00:38:50 <TPC> or need a complete set of utilities on a small system, like a floppy distro
Oct 21 00:39:05 <celesteh> oh, this isn't a maemo program
Oct 21 00:39:17 <TPC> nope
Oct 21 00:39:27 <TPC> maemo is using it thought to provide those basic utilities
Oct 21 00:39:38 <celesteh> cool
Oct 21 00:40:35 <TPC> xterm is just a terminal emulator, it doesn't really do much, it takes input from things like the keyboard and sends them to a shell, then shows the output of the shell on the screen
Oct 21 00:40:52 <TPC> or whatever app you are running obviously
Oct 21 00:41:55 <TPC> would have been nice if maemo had used linux-utils and coreutils to provide those tools, its the "full" versions of the tools, they may take up more space and use more ram, but they are alot easier to work with if you are used to them
Oct 21 00:43:16 <TPC> anyway, its getting late, goodnight everyone
Oct 21 01:21:51 <timely_changelog> m heh
Oct 21 01:34:26 <pupnik> busybox was a good choice.  people who need more can install it.
Oct 21 01:35:10 <zerojay> Good choice when resources are limited.
Oct 21 01:35:32 <pupnik> in general, 80% of 'Nokia should have' comments fail the 'have a clue' test.
Oct 21 01:35:46 <zerojay> Hah.. agreed.
Oct 21 01:37:35 <pupnik> btw if busybox vi annoys you, the BSD-based 'nvi' is great! (and small)
Oct 21 01:37:46 <pupnik> vim - wayyy to big
Oct 21 01:37:48 <pupnik> *too
Oct 21 01:44:10 <pupnik> thx to lardman for this interesting performance comparison http://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks
Oct 21 01:47:56 <snowmoon> I wonder how the 8x0 will perform @ 400 compared to those specs
Oct 21 01:47:57 <pupnik> look at the N800's crazy specs on the fourier transform test
Oct 21 01:48:37 <pupnik> (Curse Intel.  We hates it!  We hates it!  We hates foreevaaaahhhh!  </gollum>)
Oct 21 01:49:29 <pupnik> Well since memory speed doesn't increase afaik, improvement factor is <= 400/333
Oct 21 01:50:03 <snowmoon> But it should bring it much closer to the PXA255
Oct 21 01:50:11 <snowmoon> where it's not already beating it
Oct 21 01:51:44 <pupnik> yeah and PCA270s have been out since at least 2004
Oct 21 01:51:47 <pupnik> *PXA
Oct 21 01:52:19 <snowmoon> One thing it doesn't list though is wattage per unit
Oct 21 01:53:59 <pupnik> "the 624-MHz PXA 270 dissipated 530 milliwatts,"
Oct 21 01:54:31 <snowmoon> Is that better or worse than the TI chips
Oct 21 01:54:38 <pupnik> "the PXA 320 operating at the same frequency dissipates 327 mW"
Oct 21 01:58:42 <x2> :/
Oct 21 01:58:46 <x2> bricked my 770
Oct 21 01:58:51 <x2> reflashing...
Oct 21 01:58:52 <_Monkey> Reflashing will reset your devices memory to factory default and wipe your home directory - use backup so that you can restore your data to the new firmware
Oct 21 01:59:00 <x2> cant do it on 64 bit (gay)
Oct 21 01:59:17 <celesteh> 64 bit machines are homosexual?
Oct 21 01:59:24 <celesteh> what?
Oct 21 01:59:24 <x2> i cant backup if I cant boot mr bot
Oct 21 01:59:25 <x2> :p
Oct 21 01:59:31 <x2> RAM: Used: 1824/4094MB
Oct 21 01:59:32 * celesteh confused
Oct 21 01:59:36 <x2> i need 64 bit
Oct 21 01:59:38 <x2> ^
Oct 21 01:59:48 <celesteh> what does that have to do with being gay?
Oct 21 01:59:57 <x2> uh
Oct 21 02:00:03 <x2> no drivers for the 770?
Oct 21 02:00:08 <x2> so i cant flash it on 64 bit
Oct 21 02:00:32 <celesteh> i don't see the connection to sexual orientation?
Oct 21 02:00:41 <x2> well
Oct 21 02:00:50 <x2> i have to put the flasher and bin on my flash drive
Oct 21 02:00:54 <x2> walk to my sisters room
Oct 21 02:00:58 <x2> and flash it on xp
Oct 21 02:01:03 <x2> OR
Oct 21 02:01:08 <x2> install linux in vmware
Oct 21 02:01:10 <x2> taking forever
Oct 21 02:01:15 <x2> and flash in linux
Oct 21 02:01:16 <x2> lol..
Oct 21 02:01:33 <celesteh> ok, that sounds like a pain in the ass
Oct 21 02:01:52 <celesteh> but, unless you're implying something totally inappropriate about your relationship with your sister
Oct 21 02:01:59 <x2> lol
Oct 21 02:02:01 <celesteh> i still don't see what it has to do with being gay?
Oct 21 02:02:32 <pupnik> afaik the TI omaps give you more bang per milliwatt than PXAs, but this is just an impression
Oct 21 02:03:57 <snowmoon> I've left my 770 running pidgn for 8-10 hours and still had most of the charge left
Oct 21 02:05:11 <snowmoon> Now if I can just figure out how not to crash the browser I would be all set
Oct 21 02:05:26 <x2> lol
Oct 21 02:05:30 <pupnik> looks like Cortex-A8 will weigh-in around 300mW in 65nm fab
Oct 21 02:10:56 <pupnik> btw that link above gives interesting CFLAGS to try for optimizing performance on 770 / N800
Oct 21 02:15:41 <snowmoon> Speed is just one factor... -Os is probably the best choice except for very small, speed critical, sections
Oct 21 02:15:44 * pupnik enters the cflag-tweak-compile-perftest infinite regression
Oct 21 02:16:16 <zerojay> -Os should be the best for the tablets.
Oct 21 02:17:35 <pupnik> i generally look at what ssvb does :)
Oct 21 02:19:54 <pupnik> oh dear - runt
Oct 21 02:20:28 <zerojay> I got enough positive feedback about the post I made on the ITT forum about IT2008 apps needing to be recompiled that I'm going to just start a blog.
Oct 21 02:20:36 <pupnik> :)
Oct 21 02:20:42 <zerojay> As much as I hate the term... eh.
Oct 21 02:21:24 <zerojay> Seems like there's a need for some of the technical stuff to be explained in plain english... so, why not.
Oct 21 02:22:50 <snowmoon> zerojay: memory bandwith vs microbenchmark ;-)
Oct 21 02:23:02 <zerojay> hah.
Oct 21 02:24:23 <pupnik> wow new flags reduced dosbox from 6.8MB to 3.4MB (with debug symbols)
Oct 21 02:24:36 <pupnik> wtf
Oct 21 02:24:49 <snowmoon> zerojay: which post specificall ( curious )
Oct 21 02:25:00 <zerojay> I don't remember where it was exactly on the forums.
Oct 21 02:25:09 <zerojay> There were so many threads posted that got to 10+ pages.
Oct 21 02:25:27 <snowmoon> lol, I think I'll try searching first
Oct 21 02:26:04 <zerojay> People were complaining about developers needing to recompile their apps for IT2008 because of the switch to a current GTK... along with the pluses and minuses of it and why it needed to be done.
Oct 21 02:26:44 <zerojay> uhh... would be nice if blogger let me actually TYPE in the text entry field.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 21 02:59:56 2007