**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 21 02:59:56 2007 Oct 21 03:12:15 :/ Oct 21 03:12:17 anyone there? Oct 21 03:52:47 hi x2 Oct 21 03:56:33 hey pupnik Oct 21 03:57:25 how did flashing go? Oct 21 03:57:43 great Oct 21 03:57:50 im trying to do os06 now Oct 21 03:57:52 to my mmc Oct 21 03:57:56 then flash hacker Oct 21 03:58:03 so it should dual boot it Oct 21 03:58:17 maybe.. Oct 21 03:58:57 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card Oct 21 03:59:03 on the 2nd to bottom code box Oct 21 03:59:13 where you make the other partition on the mmc.. Oct 21 03:59:22 it wont let me do mke2fs Oct 21 03:59:30 says it is not valid Oct 21 03:59:40 oh yay its done copying everything Oct 21 03:59:46 let me finish and see if it even boots.. Oct 21 04:02:43 lolol Oct 21 04:02:46 i dont know wtf Oct 21 04:02:49 same exact boot loop Oct 21 04:03:24 hrm Oct 21 04:03:31 i know whats messed up too Oct 21 04:03:37 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card Oct 21 04:03:42 2nd box up Oct 21 04:03:48 and bottom box Oct 21 04:03:49 you gotta insmod the ext2fs module Oct 21 04:03:53 I doubt it got mounted right Oct 21 04:04:08 I do? Oct 21 04:04:08 or modprobe it rather Oct 21 04:04:29 why don't they mention that you have to modprobe the module Oct 21 04:04:40 is that why im getting owned Oct 21 04:04:41 lol Oct 21 04:04:57 im going to flash back to hacker 07 and try again Oct 21 04:05:02 hmm nono Oct 21 04:05:03 how do i modprobe it? Oct 21 04:05:04 lsmod Oct 21 04:05:08 er? Oct 21 04:05:13 type lsmod in xterm Oct 21 04:05:19 hacker o7 or os06 Oct 21 04:05:27 i need to fraking reflash it again now Oct 21 04:05:30 stick with 06 if that's wha. Oct 21 04:05:36 ok Oct 21 04:05:48 brb Oct 21 04:05:50 if you reflash do 06 and then install xterm and do the becomeroot bit Oct 21 04:05:57 yea Oct 21 04:06:02 i can do that quick Oct 21 04:06:15 maybe you can walk me through it after that? Oct 21 04:06:17 then before you do the mke3fs Oct 21 04:06:18 im getting nowhere Oct 21 04:06:24 do 'lsmod' Oct 21 04:06:31 and see if it has the "ext2" module loaded Oct 21 04:06:37 if not, then "modprobe ext2" Oct 21 04:06:46 ok Oct 21 04:06:51 otherwise it can't (afaik) format ext2 Oct 21 04:06:59 is there something else that can cause it? Oct 21 04:07:09 afaik, ext2 isn't loaded by default Oct 21 04:07:14 on hacker 07 everything seemed to be ok Oct 21 04:07:16 then it boot looped Oct 21 04:07:22 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ Oct 21 04:07:26 does that look alright? Oct 21 04:07:33 ill brb a sec though Oct 21 04:07:37 flasha again Oct 21 04:07:42 k Oct 21 04:11:57 ok Oct 21 04:11:58 im back Oct 21 04:12:25 i'll be around - no hurry Oct 21 04:12:38 everything on that page ^ look ok? Oct 21 04:12:42 ill try this once more :/ Oct 21 04:12:49 repeat flashing is annoying me Oct 21 04:14:21 no afaik that page is missing "modprobe ext2" Oct 21 04:14:34 ohhh Oct 21 04:14:38 sorry i see it at the end Oct 21 04:15:00 wha? Oct 21 04:15:07 so maybe mke2fs doesn't really require ext2.ko Oct 21 04:15:17 lol Oct 21 04:15:24 if this bricks it again.. Oct 21 04:15:25 well run through it and maybe we can figure out what's not working Oct 21 04:15:28 i swear :/ Oct 21 04:15:30 ok Oct 21 04:15:43 installing xterm and bluetooth Oct 21 04:16:59 also let me know if you want to install two OSes on mmc instead of one Oct 21 04:17:13 hrm Oct 21 04:17:16 thats fine Oct 21 04:17:27 i guess this boot selector isnt working Oct 21 04:17:34 sicne it doesnt even show that Oct 21 04:17:40 probably the mmc2 not being mounted right.. Oct 21 04:17:56 on n770 you only have mmc1 Oct 21 04:18:11 h Oct 21 04:18:11 [00:14] sorry i see it at the end Oct 21 04:18:14 bleh Oct 21 04:18:19 # insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko Oct 21 04:18:19 # mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /media/mmc2 Oct 21 04:18:34 that bottom mount shouldnt be there? Oct 21 04:18:34 oh that :)_ Oct 21 04:18:40 it never has mounted for me Oct 21 04:18:52 i meant in the normal configuration Oct 21 04:18:55 ah Oct 21 04:19:04 ok, lets get started here Oct 21 04:19:05 :/ Oct 21 04:19:10 oh wow Oct 21 04:19:18 i just tried to touch my monitor... Oct 21 04:19:21 too much 770 syndrom Oct 21 04:20:13 heh i think i did that once Oct 21 04:20:19 lol Oct 21 04:32:43 ok Oct 21 04:32:44 all set Oct 21 04:32:49 shall i start getting owned again? Oct 21 04:33:22 you're at the sfdisk step yes? Oct 21 04:33:40 just about Oct 21 04:33:46 im getting the package Oct 21 04:34:23 ok Oct 21 04:34:27 where should I stop at? Oct 21 04:34:47 well after you do the sfdisk stuff Oct 21 04:34:55 you should be able to see the partitions with fdisk -l Oct 21 04:35:19 actually nothing* there should mess up your system Oct 21 04:35:26 ok Oct 21 04:35:32 ill do that whole block as it shows Oct 21 04:39:03 ok all done Oct 21 04:39:06 i have a 2gb card Oct 21 04:39:13 that souldnt matter should it? Oct 21 04:39:51 try to format them now? Oct 21 04:40:32 ok i just shutdown Oct 21 04:40:37 once its rebooted Oct 21 04:40:43 its mke2fs time Oct 21 04:40:44 what do I do? Oct 21 04:41:41 hm Oct 21 04:41:44 lsmod Oct 21 04:41:57 my 2gb card worked Oct 21 04:41:59 ok Oct 21 04:42:36 ok Oct 21 04:42:40 whats lsmod supposed to show Oct 21 04:42:54 do i try mke2fs? Oct 21 04:43:44 yeah Oct 21 04:44:01 did mkdosfs work? Oct 21 04:44:07 yea Oct 21 04:44:12 ok go for it Oct 21 04:44:33 omg! Oct 21 04:44:35 it worked Oct 21 04:44:49 i did this on hacker and it still bricked Oct 21 04:44:56 so hopefully... Oct 21 04:56:08 omfg Oct 21 04:56:10 im a noob Oct 21 04:56:15 on the boot flasher.. Oct 21 04:56:20 it prompts yes/no Oct 21 04:56:23 i was typing y Oct 21 04:56:26 .... Oct 21 04:56:29 y <> yes Oct 21 04:56:53 ah Oct 21 04:57:03 hm Oct 21 04:57:22 what boot flasher are you running now? Oct 21 04:57:38 whatever it told me to Oct 21 04:57:44 in that link Oct 21 04:58:47 yay bootloader works! Oct 21 05:02:23 cool Oct 21 05:05:17 thanks so much for the help Oct 21 05:05:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR-jaFegt5w&NR=1 For those not in the USA - here are the media lies that are flooding the US media to justify an attack on Iran Oct 21 05:06:07 cheers- you did it all :) Oct 21 05:16:25 mornink Oct 21 05:22:43 Iran funding Al-Quaeda... LIE Oct 21 05:22:47 haha sorry offtopic Oct 21 05:24:59 pupnik, unless you can tie that up with the internet tablets somehow Oct 21 05:25:12 I'm pretty sure there's some consipracy theory that fits that purpose too :-) Oct 21 06:50:49 any ideas on how exactly to simulate the signal the mce emits when entering flight mode? (on the SDK) Oct 21 06:52:20 I'm trying this: run-standalone.sh dbus-send --system --type=signal --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/signal com.nokia.mce.signal.sig_device_mode_ind string:'flight' Oct 21 06:52:29 but it doesn't register in libosso Oct 21 06:54:41 ah. found it Oct 21 07:44:29 got a new build of dosbox for testing Oct 21 08:04:36 Morning, all Oct 21 09:04:25 good morning Oct 21 10:37:55 I don't like the way the n800 lets you type accented characters Oct 21 10:38:31 I type fast enough that my "it's" always comes out as "it'ś" Oct 21 10:47:43 I've not had that problem Oct 21 10:47:43 Maybe you should try relaxing more :) Oct 21 10:47:43 I do have a problem with upcasing characters and the web browser. Oct 21 10:47:49 If I make any of the top row upcase the focus switches from what ever input I'm using to the location bar, which is a pain in the ass :) Oct 21 10:51:08 yes, that's a common problem Oct 21 10:51:10 very annoying Oct 21 10:51:20 Another reason for a real keyboard. Oct 21 10:51:41 Although hopefully the general performance improvements mean that resizing the window to accomdate the popup keyboard is a little more seamless. Oct 21 10:51:55 i think i ended up blaming the ui Oct 21 10:52:09 actually i think we stopped resizing the window Oct 21 10:52:36 jaffa: wanna read a long draft? :( Oct 21 10:52:51 Yeah, better than helping with the Sunday lunch ;-) Oct 21 10:53:07 Heh Oct 21 10:53:12 * timely_changelog grumbles Oct 21 10:53:24 hese people must be dyslexic Oct 21 10:53:48 how do they manage to draw a slash for the same object going in two different directions.. Oct 21 10:53:52 *again* Oct 21 10:54:12 Oh no. Am I going to get annoyed at the lack of grammar, punctuation and proper speeling? I get enough of that at work, from supposed client-facing "professionals" :( Oct 21 10:54:39 if you buy or use a Nokia product, i believe it's impossible not to Oct 21 10:54:49 Only if you RTFM ;) Oct 21 10:55:11 or TFM, TF-UI, TF-Help, TF-Forums Oct 21 10:55:21 or Anything with letters Oct 21 10:55:59 TFUI can be so annoying in other ways, I tend to ignore it. Although I got *really* annoyed when Blocks was included officially but still said "You loose". Oct 21 10:56:35 i got them to fix that one Oct 21 10:56:38 idiots Oct 21 10:57:04 i still haven't managed to get them to spell "ring tones" correctly Oct 21 10:57:17 they insist that nokia style is more important than what's on nokiausa.com Oct 21 10:57:24 don't ask me why Oct 21 10:57:37 * timely_changelog should cc marketing Oct 21 10:57:55 not that marketing seems to have any sway here, they seem to be given orders like "please march off the following cliffs" Oct 21 10:58:40 heh Oct 21 10:59:01 Aren't marketing usually in charge? (Whether that's for the best or not...) Oct 21 10:59:07 only in sane places Oct 21 10:59:18 timely_changelog: damn, that order should have been sent to the legal department Oct 21 10:59:20 here we have product management which has "Vision" Oct 21 10:59:35 Oh. PHBs FTW. Oct 21 10:59:44 suihkulokki: the legal department is yet another group which can't manage to write proper English sentences Oct 21 10:59:57 not specifically the person with whom I work, he's a nice and good lawyer Oct 21 11:00:04 but the ones who manage to get text into our content Oct 21 11:00:08 Still, Steve Jobs has vision and he seems to be doing all right. Oct 21 11:00:11 i'll offer text from maemo.org Oct 21 11:00:15 jaffa: he's steve jobs Oct 21 11:00:26 we have these guys who readily admit they aren't him Oct 21 11:00:30 but don't bother trying to emulate him Oct 21 11:00:38 and still make absolute decissions Oct 21 11:00:46 anyway, maemo.org url in a sec Oct 21 11:00:51 The Application Manager's legalese is annoying. Oct 21 11:00:52 https://maemo.org/legal/contribution_guidelines Oct 21 11:01:04 iirc it doesn't have many bugs other than being verbose Oct 21 11:01:12 Please note that, Nokia makes no representations or warranties of any kind, including express or implied that your Contribution will end up to this or any other project of Nokia. Oct 21 11:01:18 "will end up to this" Oct 21 11:01:25 nice Oct 21 11:01:26 * Jaffa shakes head. Oct 21 11:01:31 yes, right, that could be English in some alternate dimension Oct 21 11:02:01 at this point, i'm happy with verbose legalese as long as it's proper English Oct 21 11:02:05 i just can't even find tha Oct 21 11:02:25 and the sad thing is, these people should know that the more words they write, the less likely they are to achieve proper English Oct 21 11:02:32 "Your Contribution must be under license accepted by Open Source Initiative." Missing an "a" there. Oct 21 11:02:53 yeah well, i didn't say this was the only bug in that sentence Oct 21 11:03:00 or paragraph... the next one isn't great either Oct 21 11:03:08 "If the contribution or parts thereof are copyrighted by someone else than you and it is not evident form the license terms [...]". Two mistakes in that phrase alone. Oct 21 11:03:09 but that's a nit! Oct 21 11:03:18 does it say "Form"? Oct 21 11:03:29 timely_changelog: yep, that's a c&p. Oct 21 11:03:44 ... Oct 21 11:03:55 * timely_changelog sighs Oct 21 11:04:18 well, the bloggers have replaced journalists dispite the typoes and grammar problems Oct 21 11:04:23 dear sir: your legal text has been rejected for failing to pass evaluation by a 4th grade American student Oct 21 11:04:29 so it could happen to lawyers as well :P Oct 21 11:04:49 suihkulokki: i'd rather replace them with engineers Oct 21 11:04:57 preferably ones who know that Firefox has a spellchecker Oct 21 11:05:07 although, even those seem relatively rare :( Oct 21 11:05:19 * suihkulokki prefers replacing them with small shellscripts Oct 21 11:05:26 granted, that won't save us from form, but ... Oct 21 11:05:46 .invite jaffa Oct 21 11:06:12 Why is spelling so important to you? Oct 21 11:06:33 alterego: total lack of professionalism Oct 21 11:06:39 Oh, really. Oct 21 11:06:40 often the meaning is changed when you mess up Oct 21 11:06:52 Well, I disagree. Oct 21 11:06:57 any text that will be translated will be corruped if the ext didn't start off correct Oct 21 11:07:04 * timely_changelog has plenty of examples Oct 21 11:07:12 s/ext/text/ Oct 21 11:07:12 timely_changelog meant: any ttext that will be translated will be corruped if the ext didn't start off correct Oct 21 11:07:19 no, i didn't! Oct 21 11:07:22 heh Oct 21 11:07:26 I guess if your application requires it to be exact that's a good reason. Oct 21 11:07:35 alterego: oddly, legal contexts DO! Oct 21 11:07:42 and translations absolutely do! Oct 21 11:07:49 that's totally unprofessional of you, timeless Oct 21 11:07:50 Meh, Oct 21 11:07:52 since otherwise you get the image viewer application which has Oct 21 11:07:58 legal contexts shmeagle flotexts. Oct 21 11:08:04 "(finn)turn to horizontaol" Oct 21 11:08:06 err Oct 21 11:08:10 "(finn)turn to horizontal" Oct 21 11:08:11 and Oct 21 11:08:17 "(finn)turn to vertical" Oct 21 11:08:23 which if you try to read it basically means Oct 21 11:08:29 for a wide image and the first option, do nothing Oct 21 11:08:35 Why don't you just get lawyers from whatever country the language you're translating to? Oct 21 11:08:36 for a tall image and the second option, do nothing Oct 21 11:08:49 alterego: sorry, unrelated problem spaces Oct 21 11:08:59 Ah Oct 21 11:09:00 * timely_changelog pokes jaffa, join Oct 21 11:09:10 the translation space is what i'm describing here Oct 21 11:09:20 * alterego compiles some stuff for maemo :) Oct 21 11:09:40 for a tall image and the first option, it means "rotate 90deg" to a random direction Oct 21 11:09:47 and similarly for a wide image and the second option Oct 21 11:10:00 too bad the intent means something very different Oct 21 11:10:25 s/means/was/ Oct 21 11:10:26 timely_changelog meant: too bad the intent was something very different Oct 21 11:10:37 * timely_changelog pokes jaffa, join? Oct 21 11:10:51 Well, I can't say I get annoyed by poor translations, or other peoples spelling mistakes. I do get annoyed about my own spelling mistakes. Oct 21 11:11:31 alterego: timely works for Nokia, so in a sense they are his own spelling mistakes Oct 21 11:11:50 they make me look bad Oct 21 11:11:55 :) Oct 21 11:12:07 they result in a product which won't sell well in our target market Oct 21 11:12:10 To who? I think you're quite pretty ;) Oct 21 11:12:22 have you seen a photo of me? Oct 21 11:12:26 No Oct 21 11:12:27 and did you mean petty? Oct 21 11:12:31 Hah Oct 21 11:12:40 see, spelling counts! Oct 21 11:12:45 :) Oct 21 11:12:51 and if i can't trust you to spell words right, i can't trust anything you say Oct 21 11:12:56 maybe you misspelled that too... Oct 21 11:13:09 s/No/Yes Oct 21 11:13:12 :) Oct 21 11:13:27 I generally always correct myself. Oct 21 11:13:37 generally always = contradiction Oct 21 11:13:39 redo from start Oct 21 11:13:46 usually? Oct 21 11:13:57 I will usually correct myself :P Oct 21 11:14:42 btw, i've removed most of the spelling errors from the numbered section Oct 21 11:14:47 that doesn't mean there weren't any Oct 21 11:15:04 it just means they annoyed me so much that i couldn't stand them / waiting to rewrie them Oct 21 11:15:35 oh, for the record, since not everyone here knows, my 't' key fails some portion of the time Oct 21 11:15:57 * timely_changelog can't wait for the i, e, m, l, and s keys to start failing Oct 21 11:15:58 Hey, does anyone know if n810 actually has the fm sender functionality? Oct 21 11:16:06 fm? Oct 21 11:16:12 yeah. radio Oct 21 11:16:16 no raido Oct 21 11:16:18 it was mentioned somewhere Oct 21 11:16:20 s/id/di/ Oct 21 11:16:21 timely_changelog meant: no radio Oct 21 11:16:32 It's an external unit I thought. Oct 21 11:16:34 we swapped the radio for gps :) Oct 21 11:17:45 ahh. well, makes sense Oct 21 11:17:59 would have been nice while waiting for the final a2dp support Oct 21 11:18:21 I was mainly interested in it for the transmitter part. Oct 21 11:18:56 to be able to hook sound signal to the stereo Oct 21 11:19:20 they were saying in here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html Oct 21 11:19:28 that it contained the trasmitter. Oct 21 11:19:50 anyway, gps is much better to have in there. Oct 21 11:24:15 hey, am I the only one that is annoyed that the butt of the stylus is not perpendicular to it's shaft? Oct 21 11:24:30 I keep idly trying to stand the thing on end Oct 21 11:24:31 * alterego wonder how many people will apply to the device program in the end. Oct 21 11:24:37 and always failing Oct 21 11:24:49 heh Oct 21 11:27:24 ooh, the slope of my keyboard is just right Oct 21 11:27:33 I can stand it up there if I orient it correctly Oct 21 11:31:02 Damnit, I know what I should have done. Oct 21 11:31:26 I should have made an image of my partitioned SD card so I could reinstate it easily .. Oct 21 11:32:25 timely_changelog: got a minute for a stupid question? Oct 21 11:32:58 sure Oct 21 11:33:02 I need to know how to launch microb from the command line, in order to get Talos working on the n800. However, simply executing /usr/bin/browser doesn't do anything Oct 21 11:33:10 is there a trick? a secret handshake perhaps? Oct 21 11:33:29 um Oct 21 11:33:32 typically tha should work Oct 21 11:33:46 you can try /usr/bin/browser --engine=microb --url=about:blank Oct 21 11:33:59 Shouldn't he use the dbus service? Oct 21 11:34:13 the fewer headaches the better Oct 21 11:34:23 and given talos integrates w/ a number of geckos Oct 21 11:34:38 all of which use shell scripts or equivalents to run, no Oct 21 11:34:45 * alterego wonders if that would work with OS2008 Oct 21 11:34:48 he shouldn't be customizing the thing to deal with lame apis Oct 21 11:34:58 especially ones likely to change weekly Oct 21 11:35:01 well, Talos has a different Python module for each OS already Oct 21 11:35:11 and I'm adding one specifically for the n800 Oct 21 11:35:17 Right Oct 21 11:35:19 so if I must use dbus then I will Oct 21 11:35:21 ok: i don't support dbus Oct 21 11:35:28 if you want to deal w/ it, you're on your own Oct 21 11:35:34 if there's documentation on it, and the command line doesn't work Oct 21 11:35:36 you can talk to swift, but um, you can't :) Oct 21 11:36:05 ahh, adding the --url param fixed it Oct 21 11:36:11 well, almost Oct 21 11:36:18 it opened a window and then segfaulted Oct 21 11:36:34 heh Oct 21 11:36:35 Is IT2006 mistral or gregale? Oct 21 11:36:38 close enough for government work Oct 21 11:36:42 alterego: yes Oct 21 11:36:46 Heh Oct 21 11:36:57 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/8/ Oct 21 11:37:11 you scipped scirocco Oct 21 11:37:16 s/c/k/ Oct 21 11:37:16 timely_changelog meant: you skipped scirocco Oct 21 11:37:23 ahh Oct 21 11:37:27 Well, I never owned a 770 so I don't really know about it. Oct 21 11:37:32 it only crashes if there's already a copy of the browser open Oct 21 11:37:39 I think I'll drop support for the 770 and ruby-maemo Oct 21 11:37:51 I'll compile one set of packages but that's it for now. Oct 21 11:38:00 alterego: well, that page is designed to solve the problem, at least until 4.0 comes out Oct 21 11:38:16 which reminds me Oct 21 11:38:24 i was going to rename 3.x to 4.0 in bugs.maemo Oct 21 11:41:33 * timely_changelog frowns Oct 21 11:41:38 what is a Internet Tablet Video Converter Oct 21 11:41:41 So would it be better to tag releases as 'maemo2' and 'maemo3' and 'maemo4' etc? Oct 21 11:41:42 and why does it deserve a produc? Oct 21 11:41:56 alterego: i'd suggest giving up Oct 21 11:42:02 :( Oct 21 11:42:08 Giving up what? Oct 21 11:42:53 well, you're going to do it, you probably want 2.0, 2.1, 2.2., ... Oct 21 11:43:06 I'm not going to do it for _every_ release .. Oct 21 11:43:13 I'll do it for 2.2 3.2 and 4.0 Oct 21 11:43:36 Which should be inline with the latest ITOS releases for each HW platform? Oct 21 11:43:41 does svn not suppor symlinks? Oct 21 11:43:55 Not as far as I know. Oct 21 11:43:56 n800s will run 4.0 Oct 21 11:44:04 timely_changelog, yes. I know. Oct 21 11:44:11 Like 770 can run 3.2 Oct 21 11:44:12 so if you're counting hardware plaforms, then, um... Oct 21 11:44:25 (HE) Oct 21 11:48:19 oh, hrm Oct 21 11:48:43 I bet there's no way to specify a new profile location when you launch microb Oct 21 11:49:06 iirc the env vars probably work Oct 21 11:49:10 but otherwise, right Oct 21 11:49:14 no commandline parsing Oct 21 11:50:08 env var is worth a try Oct 21 11:50:26 MOZ_PROFILE_DIR or something, right? Oct 21 11:50:50 sounds right, but ask mxr Oct 21 11:53:13 hmm, no luck Oct 21 11:56:17 yes, svn can store symlinks Oct 21 11:57:07 personally, i'd suggest you use symlinks Oct 21 11:57:11 3.x => 3.2 Oct 21 12:03:30 why does the browser's save as feature use '.htm' as the filename extension? Oct 21 12:05:17 8.3 suppor :) Oct 21 12:06:04 bu seriously, i have no idea, i'm sure we inheritted it from some ancient spec Oct 21 12:07:33 * timely_changelog wonders why websites has a bug w/ tm1.2 Oct 21 12:09:28 tm? Oct 21 12:10:12 target milestone Oct 21 12:10:57 if you have js enabled, load https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced&resolution= Oct 21 12:11:21 oh, heh Oct 21 12:11:29 tm's aren't enabled Oct 21 12:11:34 well now, ain't that a trick Oct 21 12:11:42 hmm Oct 21 12:11:47 this is interesting Oct 21 12:11:50 We can always just pretend. :) Oct 21 12:12:02 the File Manager on my n800 shows a 'Shared media' as a peer of the n800 Oct 21 12:12:09 with 'Azureus' inside it Oct 21 12:12:23 Azureus probably has a upnp server. Oct 21 12:12:32 yea, I think it does Oct 21 12:12:37 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187&ctype=xml Oct 21 12:12:45 note the target_milestone is 1.2 :) Oct 21 12:13:27 ruby-libconic done :) Oct 21 12:13:30 zerojay: datamining for experts courses :) Oct 21 12:13:37 Hah. Oct 21 12:13:37 isn't libconic deprecated? Oct 21 12:13:50 so what exactly does the n800 look for in a upnp server? Oct 21 12:13:50 It's in chinook. Oct 21 12:14:04 "hello upnp server" Oct 21 12:14:05 I don't see any deprecation notes anywhere .. Oct 21 12:14:42 oh, also Oct 21 12:14:46 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/4-x/ Oct 21 12:14:53 Are you saying there's deprecated libs in there? Oct 21 12:14:54 db48x: Like most guys when asked what they look for in women, it just looks for ANY UPNP server. ;) Oct 21 12:15:04 why are does the wifi signal strength indicator look like it's disabled? Oct 21 12:15:07 zerojay: heh Oct 21 12:15:09 oh, sorry Oct 21 12:15:24 osso-ic is the deprecated one Oct 21 12:15:28 :) Oct 21 12:15:43 Good, so I've not wasted the past few hours ;) Oct 21 12:16:15 * timely_changelog sighs Oct 21 12:16:40 why does my device think it's a good idea to randomly hunt for ntworks and then bug my screen with "save this network" sysem modal dialogs Oct 21 12:16:44 while the device is *idl* Oct 21 12:16:54 s/dl/dle/ Oct 21 12:16:56 timely_changelog meant: while the device is *idle* Oct 21 12:16:58 810? Oct 21 12:17:01 yes Oct 21 12:17:06 Sounds like a bug. Oct 21 12:17:11 sounds like a feature Oct 21 12:17:17 Oh wait, is there a "auto connect" feature? Oct 21 12:17:20 fwiw, i could use 2008 on my n800s Oct 21 12:17:23 alterego: yes Oct 21 12:17:33 Maybe turn that off? Oct 21 12:17:36 but, to do so, i'd have to backup everything, which takes way too long Oct 21 12:17:40 alterego: why should i have to? Oct 21 12:17:55 i didn't tell it to "automatically bug me to save networks" Oct 21 12:18:05 Well, if you want those "annoying system notifications". Oct 21 12:18:13 Put it in offline mode. Oct 21 12:18:16 Hah Oct 21 12:18:23 Send it to me. Oct 21 12:18:27 zerojay: but maybe i don't want it offline Oct 21 12:18:38 alterego: sorry, i can only ship official hardware Oct 21 12:18:42 :) Oct 21 12:18:45 and i think i've already offered my n810 Oct 21 12:19:00 What about an N95? Oct 21 12:19:05 i don't have one Oct 21 12:19:06 disable the app that's bringing up the networking? Oct 21 12:19:16 snowmoon: there isn't one afaict Oct 21 12:19:21 there's nothing on the desktop Oct 21 12:19:23 there is Oct 21 12:19:26 Actually, after seeing one the other day I'm not sure I want one anyway. Oct 21 12:19:29 media player is the only app running Oct 21 12:19:30 timely_changelog: Your tablet is a junkie needing its fix... plug the ethernet cable directly to its veins! Oct 21 12:19:33 and it's idle Oct 21 12:19:37 * db48x sighs Oct 21 12:19:39 Think I'll stick to my SE pos Oct 21 12:19:47 se? Oct 21 12:19:52 sony eric Oct 21 12:19:57 sucky edition? Oct 21 12:19:58 oh :-) Oct 21 12:20:15 It's actually disintergrating. Oct 21 12:20:20 Every week something new falls off. Oct 21 12:20:21 hey, w950i's are good phones Oct 21 12:20:43 timely_changelog: Control Panel -> Connectivity -> Search interval Oct 21 12:20:51 This phone must be 3 years old, at least. Oct 21 12:20:52 Well.. if it's still the same on IT2008 anyways. Oct 21 12:20:53 Maybe more Oct 21 12:20:59 10mins Oct 21 12:21:11 timely_changelog: Change it to Never. Oct 21 12:21:12 <_Monkey> zerojay: that doesn't look right Oct 21 12:21:34 Boom, no more annoying popups. Oct 21 12:21:44 * timely_changelog says Oct 21 12:21:54 zerojay: click the ? in that dialog Oct 21 12:22:00 scroll to "Tip:" Oct 21 12:22:04 do you see: Oct 21 12:22:10 If you enable Any connection... ? Oct 21 12:22:24 Yes. Oct 21 12:22:29 * alterego rubinizes libconic Oct 21 12:22:35 is the next word wrong? Oct 21 12:22:57 "and"? Oct 21 12:23:06 that's the word Oct 21 12:23:13 Yeah, i guess it should be "or". Oct 21 12:23:26 ok, there is something weird about gtk.TextView. If I type a literal string and put it in there, I can select the text just fine. However, for some other strings that come from an unpickling operation (I think) I can't select the text. Even if I combine them with literals before showing. Oct 21 12:23:28 there's a bugs.maemo.org/Documentation product Oct 21 12:23:31 please file a bug :) Oct 21 12:23:34 Will do. Oct 21 12:23:35 specify version 4.0 Oct 21 12:23:37 it's still broken Oct 21 12:23:41 Alrighty. Oct 21 12:23:46 feel free to read throught the rest of the page Oct 21 12:24:07 if you're feeling evil, you can try setting target milestone of "Next" Oct 21 12:24:15 I'll do that if my kid won't be bothering me. Oct 21 12:24:16 Hah. Oct 21 12:24:35 (use another bugzilla to find out the field name, and use dom inspector or abuse bugzilla to insert the field into the submission) Oct 21 12:25:00 easiest way to abuse bugzilla is to get jesse's frmget bookmarklet (google it) Oct 21 12:25:01 wow, the tabs in osso-xterm look terrible Oct 21 12:25:04 and then add '@' Oct 21 12:25:07 Hahaha. Oct 21 12:25:13 to the CC field Oct 21 12:25:23 when you submit, you'll have an error, but the url will let you abuse it Oct 21 12:25:24 I guess my problem isn't too widely known one. I guess I'll try to dig some more. Oct 21 12:25:32 db48x: they're gone in 4.0 Oct 21 12:25:38 thank g-d Oct 21 12:25:42 good Oct 21 12:25:44 timely_changelog: I think I'll just let you add it properly after it's filed. ;) Oct 21 12:25:52 tabs on maemo are about the dumbest thing imaginable Oct 21 12:25:52 can you launch multiple xterms instead? Oct 21 12:25:58 db48x: um Oct 21 12:26:12 dunno, since xterm isn't on my product image :) Oct 21 12:26:13 timely_changelog: Agreed.. but everyone keeps bitching for tabbed browsing. Oct 21 12:26:23 but there's a new window option in the app menu Oct 21 12:26:31 It's as though they want to LOSE more screen space. Oct 21 12:26:41 zerojay: users are clever Oct 21 12:26:43 Ha, no, tabs are a fine idea. Oct 21 12:26:47 You just have to implement them right. Oct 21 12:26:55 For instance: transparency. Oct 21 12:26:58 see... we already have a ui Oct 21 12:27:04 it's this button which keeps changing its icon Oct 21 12:27:10 atm it looks like a house Oct 21 12:27:16 but in the n810 it will look like a square Oct 21 12:27:19 with a shadow Oct 21 12:27:29 press it once, and you get a list of "tabs" Oct 21 12:27:33 That's two clicks Oct 21 12:27:34 including 64x54 icons Oct 21 12:27:35 I want one click Oct 21 12:27:46 timely_changelog: pretty sure it autoconns shouldn't give you dialogs by default? Oct 21 12:27:50 if you don't want to loose screen realestate just have the tab bar auto-hide on fullscreen mode Oct 21 12:27:59 sp3000: that'd be logical and reasonable Oct 21 12:28:02 since the autoconns are to saved networks, prompting to save would be ...weird Oct 21 12:28:03 but my device disagrees Oct 21 12:28:04 Just make the tab background transparent. Oct 21 12:28:41 ok, fwiw, transparency on our device is a big cpu killer Oct 21 12:28:53 timely_changelog: fwiw when I open a link in a new window, I'll then to switch back and would like to know when the new page has loaded Oct 21 12:28:56 so can you just pretend that transparency is both impossible and simply doesn't exist? Oct 21 12:28:56 Heh Oct 21 12:29:09 s/then/tend/ Oct 21 12:29:10 sp3000 meant: timely_changelog: fwiw when I open a link in a new window, I'll tend to switch back and would like to know when the new page has loaded Oct 21 12:29:11 sp3000: an info bannner wouldn't make you happy? Oct 21 12:29:12 * GeneralAntilles looks at the OS2008 screenshots and wonders. Oct 21 12:29:24 doesn't the TI chip have asmall 3d unit on it? Oct 21 12:29:25 timely_changelog: it might Oct 21 12:29:30 Then, how about 100% transparent? Oct 21 12:29:35 snowmoon: and no driver for it, yep Oct 21 12:29:44 sp3000: i'll gladly give you that Oct 21 12:29:47 snowmoon: We don't have access to it and the only driver available is for Linux 2.4. Oct 21 12:29:52 especially if i can trade it for the current "updating" banner ... Oct 21 12:29:57 * timely_changelog rolls eyes Oct 21 12:30:21 100% transparent? sure, as long as i can optimize it away Oct 21 12:30:27 since that means i don't need to do any drawing Oct 21 12:30:38 * timely_changelog likes tha deal Oct 21 12:30:41 what's next? Oct 21 12:31:02 is there any way to make 'return' behave properly? Oct 21 12:31:05 hrm, you don't want to be able to click on your 100% transparent tabs, i hope Oct 21 12:31:13 db48x: use the numeric keypad one instead? Oct 21 12:31:18 Divider bars and title text Oct 21 12:31:21 that's 'enter' Oct 21 12:31:27 and it's really far away from my pinky Oct 21 12:31:31 it usually does what people want Oct 21 12:31:35 anyway, xmodmap ? Oct 21 12:31:37 * timely_changelog shrugs Oct 21 12:31:41 just remap return to enter Oct 21 12:31:54 yea, I figured that's how I'd have to do it Oct 21 12:32:00 snowmoon, that it does but it's not utilised yet. Oct 21 12:32:09 yet... Oct 21 12:32:13 I was hoping to just be able to disable the on screen keyboard thing that pops up instead Oct 21 12:32:15 you assume i will ever be used Oct 21 12:32:22 * sp3000 tries to find chinook api docs Oct 21 12:32:25 db48x: tell your sdk you're an n810 Oct 21 12:32:33 Actually, really, if I could just change something to "Open in new background window" I'd be happy. Oct 21 12:32:43 it doesn't open the vkb by default if you're an n810 Oct 21 12:32:53 timely_changelog: mmm. how do I go about doing that? Oct 21 12:33:04 maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/ Oct 21 12:33:09 good question :) Oct 21 12:33:30 meh, it doesn't have what I was looking for Oct 21 12:33:48 db48x: try control panel/text input settings Oct 21 12:34:04 under on screen, i have "enable stylus input methods" Oct 21 12:34:10 if you have that, you can uncheck i Oct 21 12:34:30 if you don't, get a vpn and ask swift to help you find out the logic it uses :) Oct 21 12:35:02 ok... Oct 21 12:35:07 anyone here have microb? Oct 21 12:35:10 no, I don't have that Oct 21 12:35:12 Yup Oct 21 12:35:17 in about: Oct 21 12:35:21 I do have microb though Oct 21 12:35:25 do you have something abou "internal settings" Oct 21 12:35:30 db48x: if you're using trunk, i don't care Oct 21 12:35:35 i need latest release i think Oct 21 12:36:16 I've still got the release version on my n800 Oct 21 12:36:23 oh, ok Oct 21 12:36:26 check about: :) Oct 21 12:36:26 it does not have anything about internal settings Oct 21 12:36:31 timely_changelog: I don't see anything about internal settings either. Oct 21 12:36:34 Yeah, nothing. Oct 21 12:36:37 ok, good Oct 21 12:36:39 it's got a link to about:config though Oct 21 12:36:45 err Oct 21 12:36:56 See the build config used in this version... Oct 21 12:37:01 same for the rest of you? Oct 21 12:37:08 about:config is what i'm asking about Oct 21 12:37:20 heh, the link to the release notes is missing Oct 21 12:37:29 yeah Oct 21 12:37:35 i suppose we could try fixing that someday Oct 21 12:37:40 the text is 'See the prefs config for this version' Oct 21 12:37:41 especially since i do write them Oct 21 12:38:14 is the release version really based on 3.0a1? Oct 21 12:38:32 i think we always forge the useragentn Oct 21 12:38:48 it's based on something from this summer Oct 21 12:39:07 the gecko version number is a6pre Oct 21 12:39:23 they should at least be in sync :) Oct 21 12:39:31 why? :) Oct 21 12:39:44 personally, if i'm going to fight the ua Oct 21 12:39:49 i want it to stop violating the ua spec Oct 21 12:39:51 haven't the gecko and firefox alphas been in sync this time around? Oct 21 12:39:52 which it does... Oct 21 12:40:26 I know we're up to 1.9a9pre and 3.0a9pre, respectively Oct 21 12:40:54 fwiw, the reason for channels is because i'm unregistered Oct 21 12:40:57 hence, i can't /msg Oct 21 12:41:20 yea, freenode is annyoing Oct 21 12:41:23 annoying Oct 21 12:41:23 <_Monkey> annoying are things that require 2.4 as a dependancy. i cba to hack them onto the device Oct 21 12:41:39 >_< Oct 21 12:41:41 Annoying is that bot. Oct 21 12:41:50 heh Oct 21 12:41:58 _monkey forget annoying Oct 21 12:41:59 <_Monkey> timely_changelog: I forgot annoying Oct 21 12:42:06 _monkey annoying is Oct 21 12:42:07 <_Monkey> OK, timely_changelog. Oct 21 12:43:52 doh Oct 21 12:44:05 what was I thinking when I checked this out anonymously? Oct 21 12:44:36 heh Oct 21 12:46:54 any way to default new app windows ( not dialogs ) to be fullscreen on the 770 Oct 21 12:47:42 timely_changelog: Aww, the Maemo bugzilla doesn't inline image attachments. ;/ Oct 21 12:48:36 timely_changelog: 2148 if you want to throw in the evil Next milestone. Oct 21 12:50:07 The N810 release is going to be a fun time on Bugzilla. Oct 21 12:50:18 Tons of shit to do, check, verify... Oct 21 12:50:31 you assume someone will do a decent job of resolving bugs Oct 21 12:50:37 is tha reasonable? Oct 21 12:50:52 Considering how many open bugs there are, probably not. Oct 21 12:51:22 Historical evidence would not suggest it is something Nokia engineers/QA will do. Oct 21 12:51:45 I'd do it, but I'm not Nokia and I don't want my wrist slapped for doing so. Oct 21 12:52:01 zerojay: talk to quim Oct 21 12:52:11 they recently undid my effors to grant editbugs Oct 21 12:52:16 explain you know what you're doing Oct 21 12:52:23 No, I think it's exactly the kind of thing the community should do if Nokia aren't going to. Oct 21 12:52:31 Ah, but that's dependent on still having editbugs. Oct 21 12:52:38 I have editbugs. Oct 21 12:52:38 right :( Oct 21 12:52:42 oh good Oct 21 12:52:49 because someone said they removed most of those bits Oct 21 12:53:02 Yeah, I still have it. Oct 21 12:53:05 anyway, i'd suggest contacting quim to make sure he's ok w/ it Oct 21 12:53:14 Yeah, of course. Oct 21 12:53:15 he absolutely should be, but... Oct 21 12:53:15 what would they get out of doing that? Oct 21 12:53:32 anyway, i need to talk to quim about enabling milestones Oct 21 12:53:46 db48x: Cleaner bugzilla helps everyone. Oct 21 12:54:13 no, what would they get out of removing editbugs from a bunch of accounts? Oct 21 12:54:33 I guess one of my previous bugs might have scared them into doing it. Oct 21 12:54:44 yes Oct 21 12:54:50 well, no Oct 21 12:54:51 not sure Oct 21 12:54:59 since the case in question was a nokian Oct 21 12:55:03 and hence it shouldn't have :) Oct 21 12:55:17 Well, maybe it woke them up to the possibility. Oct 21 12:55:22 and they were at work, there's no way for them not to be able to figure out he's a nokian Oct 21 12:55:35 your bugs are definitely driving some of the pieces Oct 21 12:55:41 btw, jaffa/zerojay/someone Oct 21 12:55:50 any idea how to look at other people's profiles in maemo.org? Oct 21 12:56:05 I was wondering that too, I assume it's supposed to be possible. Oct 21 12:56:12 I haven't seen anything, but i haven't looked much yet. Oct 21 12:56:19 if you can guess the username Oct 21 12:56:22 you can: Oct 21 12:56:24 https://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil.html Oct 21 12:56:34 Right. But no search? Oct 21 12:56:36 https://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless.html Oct 21 12:56:42 timely_changelog: I just hope my bugs are driving something positive. Oct 21 12:57:07 jaffa: i certainly haven't found it Oct 21 12:57:15 https://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless.html Oct 21 12:57:24 zerojay: drive everyone to use ohloh ! Oct 21 12:57:42 * Jaffa likes timely_changelog 's new changelog. Definitely encouraging to see that level of feedback and also encourages more raising of good bugs (IMHO) Oct 21 12:57:54 :) Oct 21 12:57:56 * Jaffa saw a ref to ohloh on his Maemo profile page. What is it? Oct 21 12:57:58 hmm Oct 21 12:58:05 been a while since I looked at ohloh Oct 21 12:58:08 timely_changelog: Ohloh's developer specific though, isn't it? Oct 21 12:58:08 load the link from mine https://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless.html Oct 21 12:58:19 zerojay: well, mostly, i suppose Oct 21 12:58:28 but you can just sign up and select stacks Oct 21 12:58:37 which basically is a way of saying what you use Oct 21 12:58:38 Where's this new changelog? Oct 21 12:58:46 it's unfinished/unpublished Oct 21 12:58:58 it's in the same style as browser/news/4 and will be browser/news/9 Oct 21 12:59:05 but it's a few hundred lines from done Oct 21 12:59:17 there's not much point in collecting feedback on it atm Oct 21 12:59:30 Well, anything that gives us more information can't be bad. Oct 21 12:59:48 https://maemo.org/profile/__ais/folder/move/85a549e4057311dcb8e1f74febf87b497b49.html Oct 21 12:59:52 Server Error Oct 21 12:59:52 Error 500 Oct 21 12:59:52 maemo.org Oct 21 12:59:52 Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:59:42 +0300 Oct 21 12:59:52 Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) DAV/2 PHP/5.2.0-8+etch7 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c Midgard/1.8.4 Oct 21 12:59:54 nice Oct 21 13:00:00 heh, I tried to edit my maemo.org profile and was told I don't have the right permissions Oct 21 13:00:01 try loading: Oct 21 13:00:01 https://maemo.org/profile/socialweb/ Oct 21 13:00:10 db48x: lol Oct 21 13:00:21 it does that sometimes Oct 21 13:00:28 try shift+reload? Oct 21 13:00:29 from that page, hover over the midguard bar [page] Oct 21 13:00:33 then click move Oct 21 13:00:47 jumpula: this action is designed to fail Oct 21 13:00:47 Bang :) Oct 21 13:00:53 someone file a bug? :) Oct 21 13:01:04 (just one, coordinate, no dupes needed...) Oct 21 13:01:13 jumpula: i'm evil when i'm not busy Oct 21 13:01:25 timely_changelog: perhaps. but anyway, if you want your profile page now, it's worth to try. Oct 21 13:02:19 want it? Oct 21 13:02:25 i was just trying to break things Oct 21 13:02:30 i already have a profile page Oct 21 13:02:36 db48x is the one who can't edit his Oct 21 13:02:57 yeah. but you're the one that commented the action will fail. Oct 21 13:03:11 Is the N810 case hard or soft? Oct 21 13:03:12 the action is nonsensical Oct 21 13:03:13 oh, you mean that floating bar thingy Oct 21 13:03:17 I had stopped seeing that Oct 21 13:03:22 alterego: same soft case as n800 Oct 21 13:03:25 different color Oct 21 13:03:40 timely_changelog: does it matter if it gets you the thing you want? Oct 21 13:03:41 Ooo .. What color? Oct 21 13:04:03 My N800 case is well worn O_O Oct 21 13:04:21 jumpula: i'm looking for things that break Oct 21 13:04:25 what i wanted was something that broke Oct 21 13:04:26 i got it Oct 21 13:04:33 Anyone already filing that midgard bug? Oct 21 13:04:45 * timely_changelog goes back to trac/svn Oct 21 13:06:32 zerojay: i think i'll send you a shirt at the end of the month Oct 21 13:06:52 friend of bugs.maemo.org :) Oct 21 13:07:00 :) Oct 21 13:07:05 Awww Oct 21 13:07:23 Gotta count towards an N810 discount :) Oct 21 13:07:30 * alterego gets back to libosso hacking. Oct 21 13:07:31 zerojay: I'd appreciate that. heh.. I'll wear it to work and surprise a few people. "What? You mean there are OTHER bugzillas?" Oct 21 13:08:16 Jaffa: Hah, I hope. A friend of mine said he'll straight buy the N810 for me if I get the discount and send him my (battle-scarred) N800. Oct 21 13:09:43 the shirt doesn't actually say bugs.maemo.org Oct 21 13:10:02 it's the one pictured in http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/7/ Oct 21 13:10:24 Awesome. Oct 21 13:10:25 the bugzilla shirts i can get cost money Oct 21 13:10:30 (tablet not included.) Oct 21 13:10:37 Hope you have them in my size. Heh. Oct 21 13:10:44 i only have XL iirc Oct 21 13:10:47 hope that's ok Oct 21 13:10:47 Hah Oct 21 13:10:57 ...I'll make it work. ;P Oct 21 13:11:22 fwiw, i'm not above giving away n800s Oct 21 13:11:30 (or other similar hardware) Oct 21 13:11:36 but i need a slightly better business reason :) Oct 21 13:11:41 Heh Oct 21 13:11:53 * alterego could do with a spare :P Oct 21 13:12:04 timely_changelog: Haha.. well, I'll work on that. ;) Oct 21 13:12:19 RTCOMM video calling bugs? ;) Oct 21 13:12:39 i'm browser team, if you want them to send you a device, i can get you a contact :) Oct 21 13:12:45 I need a unit I can continually stuff as I'm experimenting with ruby-maemo Oct 21 13:13:00 alterego: use quim's grant Oct 21 13:13:07 What's that? Oct 21 13:13:15 most likely devices i'd have would be his leftover's anyway Oct 21 13:13:18 quim is a dev right? Oct 21 13:13:19 tha's what happened last ime around Oct 21 13:13:25 timely_changelog: Sure, but I feel a little weird sending them an e-mail and saying "hey, I filed a few bugs on RTCOMM... send me some shit." ;) Oct 21 13:13:26 quim's the maemo.org coordinator Oct 21 13:13:37 Ah Oct 21 13:13:41 Cool Oct 21 13:13:48 i'm sure he has a better title than that Oct 21 13:13:51 hrm Oct 21 13:13:54 God? Oct 21 13:13:55 timely_changelog: But sure, send me a contact if you've got one. Oct 21 13:14:05 "The mad" ? Oct 21 13:14:09 s/mad/man/ Oct 21 13:14:11 alterego meant: "The man" ? Oct 21 13:14:26 zerojay: got the url for the bug where i described roles instead of simply "Nokian"? Oct 21 13:14:32 preferably #c format Oct 21 13:14:34 2035, I believe. Oct 21 13:15:13 yes Oct 21 13:15:22 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2035#c3 Oct 21 13:15:25 somewhere in there Oct 21 13:15:42 damn, why is the UI so heavy... just restarted and it's got 6mb free memory Oct 21 13:15:50 search for "For Quim, this would be something like:" Oct 21 13:15:57 no wonder the web keeps crashing Oct 21 13:16:09 /topic #maemo no wonder the web keeps crashing Oct 21 13:16:27 but why is _Monkey crashing? Oct 21 13:17:12 timely_changelog: Filling in my own details to give them less of a reason to say no? Oct 21 13:17:50 zerojay: sorry, which context are we in? Oct 21 13:17:54 I wouldn't be surprised if the box it's running on is killing it's process because it's taking up too much CPU time due to the logs he's parsing now being bigger. Oct 21 13:18:21 oh, you mean _Monkey? Oct 21 13:18:35 For that last sentence, yes. Oct 21 13:19:07 * timely_changelog sighs Oct 21 13:19:10 Oh, it's probably just running on Milhouse's home box, never mind. Oct 21 13:19:12 this is so wrong Oct 21 13:22:35 Hm. Oct 21 13:22:54 * timely_changelog ponders Oct 21 13:23:00 this bug is the "should we break acid2" bug Oct 21 13:23:07 * timely_changelog wonders what the answer is Oct 21 13:23:17 I assume the Move command in Midgard's bar is supposed to allow you to move the page to a different URL/place.. I've never used it, so I'm not entirely sure. Oct 21 13:23:40 expected results: No crash. Unsure beyond that Oct 21 13:24:01 Yeah, a more graceful error message or just disabling the command for pages that shouldn't be moved. Oct 21 13:24:02 while i have users around Oct 21 13:24:11 heh timely. nice. Oct 21 13:24:17 which bookmarks do people use? Oct 21 13:24:25 expected results: it works. <3. Oct 21 13:24:28 Just in general? Oct 21 13:24:33 sure Oct 21 13:24:38 czr: I kill people that put that on our bugzilla. Oct 21 13:24:54 zerojay, it seems a logical response to many people :-) Oct 21 13:25:04 timely_changelog, lwn.net Oct 21 13:25:10 lxr too. Oct 21 13:25:18 you use lxr? which? Oct 21 13:25:24 timely_changelog: Digg, NME, MaxConsole, PS2Dev... Oct 21 13:25:28 http://lxr.linux.no/source/ Oct 21 13:25:32 oh wow Oct 21 13:25:50 czr: have you played w/ timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/ ? Oct 21 13:26:05 timely_changelog, nope. will take a look Oct 21 13:26:22 sp3000: fwiw i ran into a big error w/ sardine, i think i have a fixed version i can push, but i need to be more careful when i check before pushing Oct 21 13:27:43 timely_changelog, no useful search though :-) Oct 21 13:28:06 * alterego gets a little frustrated. Oct 21 13:28:27 czr: eh? Oct 21 13:28:48 hmm. maybe I misunderstood. it recurses? Oct 21 13:29:04 * czr tests Oct 21 13:29:39 czr: it's something like 8gb of data Oct 21 13:29:46 searching from the top w/o a hint is mean Oct 21 13:29:53 how's the search implemented? Oct 21 13:30:01 however, entering "about:config" into http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/ 's search Oct 21 13:30:09 yields: Oct 21 13:30:09 Found 9 matching lines in 4 files Oct 21 13:30:10 about:config Oct 21 13:30:11 <_Monkey> it has been said that about:config is one Oct 21 13:30:19 and not such bad hits either Oct 21 13:30:27 _monkey forget about:config Oct 21 13:30:28 <_Monkey> timely_changelog: I forgot about:config Oct 21 13:30:34 _monkey about:config is Oct 21 13:30:35 <_Monkey> OK, timely_changelog. Oct 21 13:31:09 search is still based on glimpse Oct 21 13:31:30 right Oct 21 13:31:32 db48x: you have a trunk microb, right? Oct 21 13:31:32 not bad Oct 21 13:31:40 does it pass acid2? Oct 21 13:31:55 it's kindof old, but I can try it Oct 21 13:32:05 gotta start up that VM first though Oct 21 13:35:56 i'm assuming it's nsIPromptService.select or something Oct 21 13:37:55 "storage" isn't in w41\s about:buildconfig Oct 21 13:38:03 could be, but make up your mind which channel you want to talk about it in :) Oct 21 13:38:05 so that means whatever the default microb buildconfig is Oct 21 13:38:23 test Oct 21 13:38:24 bah Oct 21 13:38:37 atmasphere: Test failed. Oct 21 13:38:46 hello Oct 21 13:38:47 <_Monkey> hello, atmasphere Oct 21 13:38:49 * timely_changelog likes zerojay Oct 21 13:38:49 Hi. Oct 21 13:38:52 just testing Oct 21 13:39:00 well, hrm Oct 21 13:39:01 ;) Oct 21 13:39:09 I may have broken my trunk build at some point Oct 21 13:39:11 atmasphere: A IT2008 version of Xchat? Oct 21 13:39:14 on the N810... Oct 21 13:39:19 or my scratchbox environment Oct 21 13:39:21 An, I mean. Oct 21 13:40:20 * timely_changelog really should stock scratchboxes for all the microb releases :( Oct 21 13:40:24 atmasphere: I can't wait to be pounding those chicklets myself soon... I hope. Oct 21 13:41:00 does anyone here VNC into their n800? Oct 21 13:41:19 i have db48x... Oct 21 13:41:41 atmasphere: did you notice that clicking on the toolbar doesn't do anything over vnc? Oct 21 13:41:45 VNC in instead of VNC from? Oct 21 13:42:03 ah, microb is working after all. it just took ages to start up Oct 21 13:42:06 VNC in Oct 21 13:42:14 not that i recall ... it was essentially a virtual machine Oct 21 13:42:42 though my n800 is acting odd after the last firmware now Oct 21 13:43:11 guess it will be hanging out anyway with the N810 here ;) Oct 21 13:43:39 db48x: do you remember.... Oct 21 13:43:44 timely_changelog: yes, it passes acid2 Oct 21 13:44:08 oh good Oct 21 13:45:09 * db48x curses Oct 21 13:45:21 * db48x needs to shoot someone associated with svn Oct 21 13:45:37 do you remember Egghead? Oct 21 13:45:49 [sbox-SDK_X86: ~/browser] > svn up Oct 21 13:45:49 svn: This client is too old to work with working copy ''; please get a newer Subversion client Oct 21 13:46:06 Egghead? can't say I do Oct 21 13:46:16 (tvseries, not store) Oct 21 13:46:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead_(Batman) Oct 21 13:46:58 no Oct 21 13:47:01 I never really watched that Oct 21 13:47:15 Hi Oct 21 13:48:05 have any buddy here expierens in developing dbus applications? Oct 21 13:51:04 timely_changelog: so what about egghead? Oct 21 13:53:36 scratchbox is very annoying Oct 21 13:53:44 yes Oct 21 13:55:07 At least you probably aren't running it in a 32-bit chroot on a 64-bit machine. :/ Oct 21 13:55:46 db48x: use svn outside scratchbox Oct 21 13:58:00 trunneml_, hey Oct 21 13:58:05 hi Oct 21 13:58:06 <_Monkey> hi, trunneml_ Oct 21 13:58:06 trunneml_, just answered to your email Oct 21 13:58:14 oh nice Oct 21 13:58:43 aleksandr? Oct 21 13:58:47 o/ Oct 21 13:58:59 yes :-) Oct 21 13:59:38 okay I will try Oct 21 14:00:08 the mail arrived now Oct 21 14:06:33 * czr runs to office. good luck all. Oct 21 14:08:21 hi Oct 21 14:08:21 <_Monkey> bonjour, lopz Oct 21 14:25:35 I need a test osso service to run >:( Oct 21 14:27:00 czr? Oct 21 14:27:27 Yes gone to the office. Oct 21 14:27:34 s/Yes/He's/ Oct 21 14:27:35 alterego meant: He's gone to the office. Oct 21 14:28:04 oh Oct 21 14:28:31 okay can some one else can help me with a dbus problem? Oct 21 14:28:39 trunneml_, what's that? Oct 21 14:29:12 I try to write a small app that has a dbus methode Oct 21 14:29:21 I have it running in ubuntu Oct 21 14:29:33 Right Oct 21 14:29:36 but on the n800 I can not call that function Oct 21 14:29:51 Are you initializing osso correctly? Oct 21 14:29:56 the calling app freezes until timeout Oct 21 14:30:02 no osso Oct 21 14:30:07 glibc and dbus Oct 21 14:30:17 How is the program executed console? Oct 21 14:30:24 yes Oct 21 14:30:44 Hmm, well I'm not sure I can help you there :) Oct 21 14:30:49 Sorry Oct 21 14:30:56 no problem Oct 21 14:42:28 does anyone know an application that has a dbus methode? Or has a libosso sample for a dbus methode? Oct 21 14:46:34 browser listens to dbus... Oct 21 14:46:43 no sure about methodE Oct 21 14:48:01 okay Oct 21 14:49:01 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1740 - I guess this is the kind of thing you were talking about earlier, timely_changelog. Oct 21 14:49:22 Bug apparently fixed on IT2008... no resolution on the bug though. Oct 21 15:05:28 some1 used nokia phones to connect 770/800 via bluetooth? I read reviews about 6120. Oct 21 15:06:24 zoran: 6230i worked fine here Oct 21 15:07:05 9300i/9500/e61i all work Oct 21 15:07:07 script_, gonna surf for it now Oct 21 15:07:29 hm, 6120 is under E200 now Oct 21 15:07:46 and I see report about heating Oct 21 15:09:06 heating what? Oct 21 15:09:28 seems that battery BL-5C makes phone hot Oct 21 15:09:44 in my region it it 5B, as I see it correctly Oct 21 15:10:22 6120 does not take BL-5C so whatever you are reading is bullshit Oct 21 15:10:30 Anyone recommend a good phone? Oct 21 15:10:31 :) Oct 21 15:10:42 I suppose I really should get a new one and stop being so cheap about it ^_^ Oct 21 15:10:44 i recommend bad phones Oct 21 15:10:52 bluetooth is standard, pretty much everything except locked phones and windows mobile phones (suprise, microsoft incompatible?) may not work Oct 21 15:11:01 I like my Samsung SGH-A717 for the HSDPA Oct 21 15:11:04 but short battery life Oct 21 15:11:09 Hmm, Oct 21 15:11:16 Nice and small, though. Oct 21 15:11:25 Fairly cheap with contract discounts. Oct 21 15:11:30 Ideally I'd like another S60 phone. Oct 21 15:11:40 Or S90 ^_^ Oct 21 15:11:53 * suihkulokki has 6120 - tiny, HSPDA and compatible charger with N800 Oct 21 15:12:05 hey, talk about it! Oct 21 15:12:06 I have a couple of apps I want to write to integrate the internet tablets with handsets. Oct 21 15:12:33 on-screen caller-id would be pretty cool. Oct 21 15:12:34 so no warm as blond in a tub? Oct 21 15:13:29 suihkulokki, does it have answering machine? Oct 21 15:13:31 Meh, I suppose I don't really have the money right now to get a new phone. If I'm gonna be forking out for the N810 Oct 21 15:13:53 I'll put it on the backburner and maybe do it later on. Oct 21 15:14:03 zoran: the answering machine is the feature of the phone network Oct 21 15:14:13 k Oct 21 15:14:37 * GeneralAntilles is still maintaining that the N810 is a waste of money. :P Oct 21 15:14:40 happy with 6120 or looking for something else? Oct 21 15:15:19 zoran: battery life could be better (same old song), but other than that I'm happy Oct 21 15:15:22 Blasphemy! Oct 21 15:15:56 * konttori disagrees. n810 is so much better in actual use than n800. Oct 21 15:16:00 I, for one, don't want to pay $250 for a keyboard. Oct 21 15:16:16 * konttori was positivelu surprised after testing it out for a few days at home. Oct 21 15:16:26 said should be 9 days at no talk mode Oct 21 15:16:33 Perhaps, but I find the fullscreen thumbboard very usable. Oct 21 15:16:35 40wpm Oct 21 15:16:39 I suppose $250 for a thumb board and GPS is pretty steap. Oct 21 15:17:09 Losing the extra storage would be a big hit for me, too. Oct 21 15:17:20 Yeah, for owners of n800 it may not make perfect sense. For some it's good, for some its better to stick with n800. Oct 21 15:17:20 I just don't like sacrificing screen space for onscreen keyboards. Especially in landscape. Oct 21 15:17:56 the reason to buy the n810 is for a screen you can use outside in the sun Oct 21 15:17:57 Hehe, and I don't like sacrificing hundreds of dollars. Oct 21 15:18:14 Meh, the N800 screen isn't that bad outside. Oct 21 15:18:17 however, it's impossible for me to test that until May, as there's no Sun scheduled for Heslinki until then Oct 21 15:18:24 GeneralAntilles, it's awefull .. Oct 21 15:18:29 it's worse? Oct 21 15:18:30 I'm in Florida Oct 21 15:18:32 it's not that bad. Oct 21 15:18:41 zoran: it's been 3-4 days normal usage for me. YMMV. Oct 21 15:18:51 good enough Oct 21 15:19:06 I mostly do not talk :) Oct 21 15:19:28 hello Oct 21 15:19:29 <_Monkey> salut, b0unc3 Oct 21 15:19:53 The screen's barely been a problem for me in the sunlight, but when it is, it's a huge pain in the ass... needing to find shade, etc.. Oct 21 15:20:22 Either way, transflective and a keyboard still aren't worth $250 Oct 21 15:20:30 zerojay, Really? My PDA's and laptop screen completely flush out to green. Oct 21 15:20:45 GeneralAntilles, TRANSREFLECTIVE?!@? OMFG WHERE?~ Oct 21 15:20:47 sciboy: Okay. So? Oct 21 15:20:53 N810 Oct 21 15:20:57 zerojay, Just good to know. Oct 21 15:21:00 I saw some asus 7 intch laptop for 200 something on the net Oct 21 15:21:02 It's been a long time coming, Oct 21 15:21:05 I don't care about your PDA... I'm talking about the N800. ;) Oct 21 15:21:05 WTF, N810 is transreflective. Oct 21 15:21:06 eee pc Oct 21 15:21:09 Why they didn't put one in the N800 I'll never know .. Oct 21 15:21:13 F*** Oct 21 15:21:20 i have to assume it cost money Oct 21 15:21:31 I thought they just cranked the brightness. Oct 21 15:21:31 Everything costs money. Oct 21 15:21:36 :P Oct 21 15:21:40 i'm not sure how much it's worth, and again, i can't know for something like 8 months Oct 21 15:21:53 The Asus has the same resolution as the ITs at almost twice the diagonal length Oct 21 15:21:55 but ask me next june and i'll let you know how much it's worth to me :) Oct 21 15:21:56 why 8 months? Oct 21 15:21:58 Which makes it a joke. Oct 21 15:22:05 when's May? Oct 21 15:22:17 that's when there's Sun, and I want a month to study/review/compare Oct 21 15:22:26 oh, heh Oct 21 15:22:26 Northern latitudes and sunlight. Oct 21 15:22:27 maybe only 7? Oct 21 15:22:54 * alterego contemplates going to Australia for a few weeks to test it ;) Oct 21 15:23:54 I'll be in Australia in late January. Oct 21 15:24:00 alterego, I can let you know about the N800. Oct 21 15:24:45 alterego would trace flight all down to australia over maps Oct 21 15:24:54 :) Oct 21 15:24:59 with 4 hours battery life? Oct 21 15:25:02 Hah not likely ^_^ Oct 21 15:25:12 I know, you would ask for charger Oct 21 15:25:40 some carriers has it on the seat side Oct 21 15:25:44 *have Oct 21 15:25:52 That would be useful. Oct 21 15:26:03 Though, the GPS may not work. A lot don't work over 99Mph Oct 21 15:26:11 there's a nice solar charger too Oct 21 15:26:15 I can't find any info about the N810 being transreflective. Oct 21 15:26:18 if you're flying in full sun Oct 21 15:26:27 I saw in semtember linux journal about using n800 in flight Oct 21 15:26:28 Everywhere just says it's 20% brighter than the N800 screen. Oct 21 15:26:29 sciboy, trust me, it is. Check out planet.maemo.org Oct 21 15:26:29 from soldius Oct 21 15:26:49 sciboy, tabletblog.com Oct 21 15:26:49 the n800 would have a bluetooth dongle gps, though Oct 21 15:27:06 My i-blue 737 worked fine on a 737 doing about 480mph. :D Oct 21 15:27:08 Well, I've never actually owned a GPS. Oct 21 15:27:12 My dad has a few. Oct 21 15:27:21 A couple of Garmins. Oct 21 15:27:23 sciboy: tabletblog has a photo of it being readable in sunlight Oct 21 15:28:21 doc sears from lj coupled n800 with bt gps box and made a map of his flight Oct 21 15:28:31 Cool. Oct 21 15:28:52 also using maps from rep and some proprietary software Oct 21 15:29:10 prop comes with sd cards Oct 21 15:29:28 maps tried to cennect the internet too often Oct 21 15:29:40 I'm gonna write a program that periodically turns on GPS for a few minutes. Waits for a fix or timeout, if it's near a recognized wifi zone it'll login and download my email :) Oct 21 15:29:46 I was going to do that on my trip to San Francisco with Maemo Mapper, but didn't want any of the flight attendants freaking out about the GPS. :D Oct 21 15:29:47 not so easy at 30000 feet Oct 21 15:29:48 Then make some gay sound effect. Oct 21 15:29:51 Damn.... Oct 21 15:29:51 <_Monkey> it has been said that damn is a very sad thing to say Oct 21 15:30:22 Why would you bother with GPS? Oct 21 15:30:32 Well at least I know I have something to upgrade to in the future. Oct 21 15:30:38 If you're near a recognized WiFi zone, you're near a recognized WiFi zone. Oct 21 15:30:44 Good point. Oct 21 15:31:04 And the N800 already checks e-mail automatically once connected so... Oct 21 15:31:13 Yes, that I know. Oct 21 15:31:14 huh Oct 21 15:31:23 is it good? Oct 21 15:31:34 The N800 email app is a POS Oct 21 15:31:36 Unless you want to blacklist some hotspots. Oct 21 15:31:41 Usable but crap. Oct 21 15:31:45 Works for me. Oct 21 15:31:53 It can't even open my inbox. Oct 21 15:31:59 Fills up all of RAM and then crashes. Oct 21 15:32:03 imap? Oct 21 15:32:05 Heh Oct 21 15:32:06 Yes. Oct 21 15:32:11 or subscribe to IMAP folders, apparently Oct 21 15:32:11 I'm not a heavy e-mail user.. I'm not a business user, so for me, it's more than enough. Oct 21 15:32:15 Well, IMAP works for me. Oct 21 15:32:15 mutt works fine with that Oct 21 15:32:18 It amazes me that after 2 years we still don't have a decent e-mail app. Oct 21 15:32:28 Modest is coming. Oct 21 15:32:29 mutt Oct 21 15:32:37 What's Modest? Oct 21 15:32:37 <_Monkey> hmmm... Modest is an email client built on libtinymail Oct 21 15:32:44 Oooo Oct 21 15:32:45 Bingo. Oct 21 15:32:53 I run my own webmail server. Oct 21 15:32:54 Neat Oct 21 15:32:56 So I can deal. Oct 21 15:33:11 Web mail is for girls and emos :P Oct 21 15:33:13 alterego: http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 21 15:33:14 I couldn't imagine using my email client on the n800 Oct 21 15:33:25 Actually, I haven't touched the e-mail client since OS2005, so it may have gotten better. Oct 21 15:33:39 Web mail is for people whose work blocks imap ports. Oct 21 15:33:45 Mutt is the mail client of choice for me :) Oct 21 15:33:50 I have my system using mutt and getmail Oct 21 15:33:53 The one and only problem I have with the e-mail client is that it sees &s as "s in links. :/ Oct 21 15:34:23 So confirmation e-mail links usually don't work unless you edit them manually. Oct 21 15:35:20 derf: ssh tunnels cure all ills Oct 21 15:35:32 db48x: If you don't mind being fired, sure. Oct 21 15:35:42 ssh is the bestest. Oct 21 15:36:13 The point is there are still a lot of situations in which you have access to a web browser, and not much else. Oct 21 15:36:17 I could never work somewhere that wouldn't let me use ssh Oct 21 15:36:38 it also has open port, so you could talk to that port in any language yu like Oct 21 15:36:41 db48x: I guess you don't work in tech, electronics or video games then. Oct 21 15:36:54 I'm not sure I could work anywhere that hindered my internet access. Oct 21 15:37:08 I do work in tech Oct 21 15:37:12 At my job, only outbound 80 and 443 is allowed. Oct 21 15:37:19 That's horrible. Oct 21 15:37:20 So I run sshd on 443. ;P Oct 21 15:37:25 Well, no... it makes sense. Oct 21 15:37:26 I couldn't work under those circumstances. Oct 21 15:37:43 I suppose if ssh will get you fired, then you could always tunnel the traffic over dns or something Oct 21 15:37:43 All the fiddling just to get out onto the net. Oct 21 15:37:50 When you have major security concerns, it's really important. Oct 21 15:37:55 A couple weeks ago I was at a hotel in San Francisco where the only port that worked was 80. Oct 21 15:38:01 db48x: Yeah, that won't work either. Oct 21 15:38:02 I mean, not even 443. Oct 21 15:38:15 Wow, that _is_ horrible. Oct 21 15:38:23 Especially for someplace as trivial as a hotel :) Oct 21 15:38:31 so, one box with service on port 80 could make a thing Oct 21 15:38:31 Yeah, that's shit. Oct 21 15:38:38 I don't think it was intentional... they didn't actually _block_ it. Oct 21 15:38:48 But you'd get about 4K of data, and then the connection would die off. Oct 21 15:39:10 But everything on port 80 was blazing fast. Oct 21 15:39:11 the rason to have phone and use 810 over it Oct 21 15:39:14 heh Oct 21 15:39:35 I just use my N800 for most other stuff anyways, so I don't care if work blocks stuff. Oct 21 15:39:56 Of course, we're not allowed to use wifi either and my N800 technically isn't allowed either, but whatever. Oct 21 15:40:32 for linux or what? Oct 21 15:40:43 yea, I'd go crazy in an environment like that Oct 21 15:40:47 Wow, that's a lot of core dumps .. Oct 21 15:41:04 But because we're kind of a separate company from Ubisoft now.. the security stuff is less problematic for me anyways. Oct 21 15:41:15 USB ports are completely banned. Oct 21 15:41:23 ? Oct 21 15:41:29 They're all blocked off on all PCs normally. Oct 21 15:41:41 Your job sucks :P Oct 21 15:41:42 Not for us because we HAVE to have them to do stuff like load our games on phones, etc.. Oct 21 15:41:44 Nope. Oct 21 15:41:52 It's the best thing ever, honestly. Oct 21 15:42:05 Most of those rules don't apply to my company anyways. Oct 21 15:42:09 Heh Oct 21 15:42:26 I want a new job. Oct 21 15:42:29 you could always transfer files over port 80 Oct 21 15:42:31 It's because Ubi is paranoid about people leaking their games, IP, etc.. and it makes total sense. Oct 21 15:42:38 Preferably something involving programming internet tablets :) Oct 21 15:42:43 it makes zero sense if http(s) is open Oct 21 15:42:53 zoran: Everything is logged and they use huge firewalls with packet inspection and all. Oct 21 15:42:56 It's hardcore stuff. Oct 21 15:43:09 Maybe I could start my own business writing software for internet tablets. Oct 21 15:43:29 nokia would like you Oct 21 15:43:48 So would most here. Oct 21 15:43:52 Heh Oct 21 15:44:11 Software is one thing we can always use more of. Oct 21 15:44:58 Well, once I've got ruby-maemo 1.1 out of the door I'll be able to start writing software :) Oct 21 15:45:03 I'd like to see some of the software we already have get better. Oct 21 15:45:04 I've got some cool ideas .. Oct 21 15:45:09 Like all the game ports that were made. Oct 21 15:45:16 I'm not really a big gamer. Oct 21 15:45:18 A lot of them were just done quick and never touched again. Oct 21 15:45:27 So I'm not that interested in doing that side of things. Oct 21 15:45:37 * flip^ really wishes developing for maemo was easier to get into from scratch... i miss the days of writing code, compiling, seeing results :( Oct 21 15:47:03 That's what Python is for, no? Oct 21 15:47:12 With any luck ruby-maemo will be out tomorrow. Oct 21 15:47:24 I just need a chance to clean some things up and write more documentation. Oct 21 15:47:49 I've been working on it non-stop since friday morning O_O Oct 21 15:48:03 Ouch Oct 21 15:48:22 working on 2006? Oct 21 15:48:26 I really should get round to learning python, but i'm not impressed with the way they went from 2.4 to 2.5 on maemo, releasing a whole new package rather than upgrading Oct 21 15:48:34 Yeah, I'm starting to slow down now .. Oct 21 15:49:35 I'm going to guess there was a good reason for it, flip^, though I don't know it. :D Oct 21 15:50:47 Probably for the same reason they went to GTK 2.10... more current. Oct 21 15:51:07 I keep meaning to learn either python or ruby, and the fact that i have a choice there has actually slowed my picking up either Oct 21 15:53:26 I'd go with ruby Oct 21 15:53:29 Don't care for Python Oct 21 15:53:32 * GeneralAntilles wants his whitespace. Oct 21 15:53:39 Agreed. Oct 21 15:53:52 what good is ruby without rails? *g* Oct 21 15:54:02 I can't stand a language where just having whitespace kills everything. Oct 21 15:54:25 Ruby is a really nice language. Oct 21 15:54:35 Personally I think it's a _lot_ nicer than Python. Oct 21 15:54:46 Most certainly. Oct 21 15:54:51 what's so nice about it? Oct 21 15:54:56 perl and python for 770/800 are really winners Oct 21 15:55:00 what can you actually do with ruby/python though... i mean, when it comes to the crunch, outside api's and documentation, what are they respectively good for doing? Oct 21 15:55:15 Whatever any programming language can do. Oct 21 15:55:16 http://tryruby.hobix.com/ Oct 21 15:55:17 They're good at writing programs in. Oct 21 15:55:27 Turing completeness and all that. Oct 21 15:55:31 I wonder how hard it would be to get a cl implementation working on the n800 Oct 21 15:55:40 I want Haskell. Oct 21 15:55:41 I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "good". Oct 21 15:55:46 I was toying with porting tinyscheme :) Oct 21 15:55:52 shapr, do it :) Oct 21 15:55:55 I just can't be bothered getting annoyed by something like syntax. lisp, python, haskell, braces.. it's just irrelevant Oct 21 15:56:16 Yes, but php is good for writing whatever prgramming languages can do, but i wouldn't try and write a standalone graphical application in it ... all languages have something they tend to do better at Oct 21 15:56:22 Who's annoyed about syntax? Oct 21 15:56:24 Yes, shapr, get to work. :P Oct 21 15:56:24 * flip^ grumps at haskell.... bane of my life Oct 21 15:56:36 or was anyway Oct 21 15:56:53 alterego: Won't happen today :-) Oct 21 15:56:53 flip^: Sure, but php was never designed to be a general purpose programming language, ruby/python/perl are/were. Oct 21 15:57:02 flip^: I've had a Haskell job for a while.. 1.5 years? Oct 21 15:57:02 eh.. i'm bored. I guess I'll add screenshots to all my bugs. Oct 21 15:57:21 Writing anything in Ruby is fun and easy. It might not be the most efficient implementation but it's fun, and easy. The language stays out of your way and lets you do things how you want to do things. Oct 21 15:57:24 That is why I like ruby. Oct 21 15:57:29 time Oct 21 15:57:38 Ignore that. Oct 21 15:57:51 alterego: But each person has a different definition of 'stays out of my way' so different people like different languages. Oct 21 15:57:54 sounds like a commercial Oct 21 15:58:04 :) Oct 21 15:58:06 ruby could be a lot for 770, if some1 has no ext2 partition on mmc Oct 21 15:58:09 Everyone also has a different definition of "how you want to do things". Oct 21 15:58:13 yup Oct 21 15:58:38 So could Python. Oct 21 15:58:38 And generally, for everything I do efficiency is hugely important. Oct 21 15:58:57 When efficiency is important I write a C extension. Oct 21 15:59:10 efficiency first, correctness later? ;-) Oct 21 15:59:31 tko: Are you the tko I used to work with in Tornio? Oct 21 15:59:48 shapr: no, I'm in Helsinki Oct 21 15:59:57 tko: Oh ok. Oct 21 16:00:04 I might've visited Tornio once. not sure Oct 21 16:00:13 Heh, that memorable aye ;) Oct 21 16:00:15 Not much to see in Tornio. Oct 21 16:02:38 there's a beer factory there Oct 21 16:04:07 Yeah, I lived right next to it, I got totally sick of the smell of brewing beer. Oct 21 16:04:12 Lapin Kulta Oct 21 16:04:36 If I get this done by the end of this evening. I'm gonna head to the pub and have a few drinks to celebrate :) Oct 21 16:07:27 been touring the factory three times :) Oct 21 16:11:03 Considering how much Nokia mentioned Facebook in their ads and stuff for the N810, you'd think someone would have tested it more. Oct 21 16:11:15 is it a little dodgy then? Oct 21 16:11:31 scrabulous was *just* about playable on a n800 i found... very slow though Oct 21 16:12:00 The links Facebook sends in its notification e-mails don't work because the e-mail client sees a & character and replaces it with a " instead. Oct 21 16:12:13 shapr: you have a haskell *job*? people actually work with that, outside the uni i work at? Oct 21 16:12:32 flip^: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=576 Oct 21 16:15:51 zerojay: what's wrong in the screenshot? Oct 21 16:16:13 [12:09] The links Facebook sends in its notification e-mails don't work because the e-mail client sees a & character and replaces it with a " instead. Oct 21 16:16:20 aah Oct 21 16:16:21 i see Oct 21 16:16:29 The " you see in the link shouldn't be there. It should be a &. Oct 21 16:16:38 i've not touched the built in email client in a long time Oct 21 16:16:40 Works fine when you replace it manually. Oct 21 16:16:54 the lack of imap folder subscriptions made it of little use to me Oct 21 16:16:56 * flip^ nods Oct 21 16:17:08 Just one of those stupid things I want to see fixed before IT2008 goes out the door. Oct 21 16:18:06 is there any package installable on n800 that provides simple embeddable html editor? It'd need to be able to add images, bold/italic/underline and tweak font settings. Oct 21 16:18:37 zerojay: pracically speaking itos2008 is out the door Oct 21 16:18:44 which is why i'm writing relnotes for the browser Oct 21 16:18:50 timely_changelog: Crap. Oct 21 16:19:41 This one is a personal favorite of mine. Oct 21 16:19:42 https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=501 Oct 21 16:19:46 note that the mail client has been in maintenance mode for a while Oct 21 16:19:57 they had hoped to replace it Oct 21 16:20:24 are those track numbers? Oct 21 16:20:31 Yep. Oct 21 16:20:42 187 doesn't fit.. but 188 does. :) Oct 21 16:21:05 https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=500 Oct 21 16:21:10 Fucks up at 99+. Oct 21 16:21:35 very nice Oct 21 16:21:49 That bug is one of the reasons why I think no one's touched the media player either in a while. Oct 21 16:22:08 actually, in theory they work on it Oct 21 16:22:23 in practice, i don't think they have qa who checks the public bugzilla Oct 21 16:22:56 I really should give Mr. Gil a nudge then. Oct 21 16:23:22 hi, what kind of file manager does maemo use? Some kind of Nautilus or something custom? Oct 21 16:23:46 custom Oct 21 16:25:03 alright, would it be interesting with a project that integrates Nautilus with Maemo/GMAE? Oct 21 16:25:29 (thinking about applying to the N810 developer program) Oct 21 16:25:45 Please, please, please keep Nautilus as far away from our tablets as possible. :~( Oct 21 16:25:59 heavyweight? Oct 21 16:26:06 No. Just crap. Oct 21 16:26:27 niluth_: traditional file manager isn't too user friendly anyway Oct 21 16:26:28 It's too late for me to beg to keep GTK away from the tablets though. :/ Oct 21 16:27:04 but if the user interface were customized for small form factors and touch screens? Oct 21 16:27:17 zerojay: you can always use Xlib :) Oct 21 16:27:25 hehe. Oct 21 16:27:26 gtk has it's problems, I agree. Though, considering what I believe are Nokia's goals, there really isn't much choicce. Oct 21 16:27:37 niluth_: it is, but even still Oct 21 16:28:05 Jiten: Yeah, I agree. I'm just afraid to see GTK go ahead and dump everything and break everything yet again. Oct 21 16:28:20 jiten: eventually maybe we can switch to widget based apps Oct 21 16:28:27 and ditch gtk/glib Oct 21 16:28:36 how does the file manager in maemo differ from traditional file managers, such as Nautilus? Oct 21 16:28:41 widget based apps? Oct 21 16:28:51 html, xul, whatever Oct 21 16:29:06 things that don't use C(++) Oct 21 16:29:17 timely_changelog: just make the browser better performing than gtk.. Oct 21 16:29:55 tko: someday... Oct 21 16:30:07 Heh Oct 21 16:30:11 "Someday" the processor will just be significantly faster. Oct 21 16:30:22 Someday in November. Oct 21 16:30:35 Well, ARM performance hasn't really changed much. Oct 21 16:30:49 Though I did hear about some >1Ghz designs .. Oct 21 16:30:55 Quad-cores coming by 2010. Oct 21 16:30:58 That was a long time ago .. Oct 21 16:31:20 If ARM doesn't improve, Intel and AMD will. Oct 21 16:31:20 alterego: They just announced quad-core ARMs running at 1ghz this past week. Oct 21 16:31:26 * timely_changelog grumbles Oct 21 16:31:30 Hah, cool. Oct 21 16:31:31 * timely_changelog hates svn Oct 21 16:31:34 I had no idea :) Oct 21 16:31:38 They've saturated the desktop market, so there's not a lot of other places for them to expand to. Oct 21 16:31:45 Won't be ready until 2010, but still. Oct 21 16:31:47 I heard about them a few years ago from a friend and ARM. Oct 21 16:32:11 friend _at_ ARM. Oct 21 16:32:22 hrm Oct 21 16:33:19 widget based apps would be okay, I guess, as long as I wouldn't have to use javascript with them. Oct 21 16:34:15 I don't know... I'm actually fond of programming my user interfaces with a real programming language. Oct 21 16:34:47 Jiten: what would you prefer to use? Oct 21 16:36:25 db48x: python :) Oct 21 16:36:39 you can write a xul app in python Oct 21 16:36:50 ok, that's good to know. Oct 21 16:36:51 derf: you must like crashy code Oct 21 16:37:14 infobot: seen arnims Oct 21 16:37:15 <_Monkey> I haven't seen 'arnims', deejoe Oct 21 16:37:16 deejoe: i haven't seen 'arnims' Oct 21 16:37:33 timely_changelog: No, I like being competent. Oct 21 16:37:55 derf: i'm no familiar with that concept Oct 21 16:37:57 derf: writing in C++ makes you competent? writing in JS makes you incompetent? Oct 21 16:38:04 ? Oct 21 16:38:17 timely_changelog: I can tell. Oct 21 16:38:21 or did I confuse two simultaneous conversations? Oct 21 16:38:30 db48x: I wasn't talking about javascript at all. Oct 21 16:38:31 what is your question deejoe Oct 21 16:39:25 Or C++, for that matter. Oct 21 16:39:30 derf: so what's your idea of a 'real' language? Oct 21 16:39:56 I will give you a hint: it is not XML- or SGML-based. Oct 21 16:40:02 oh, you just mean something other than a declarative 'language' like html or xul Oct 21 16:40:11 Yes. Oct 21 16:40:31 * timely_changelog is confused Oct 21 16:40:53 so you like the idea of writing lots of really shitty code to generate an inflexible ui in C / Python? Oct 21 16:41:00 gotcha Oct 21 16:41:31 Yes, that is precisely what I said. Oct 21 16:41:38 You can generate JScript well enough not to need to code in it :) Oct 21 16:41:38 Maybe an XUL->glade_xml XSLT stylesheet :) Oct 21 16:41:41 You could use Ruby as the scripting language. Oct 21 16:44:22 Hah Oct 21 16:44:26 * db48x yawns Oct 21 16:44:36 * db48x is tired early today Oct 21 16:45:27 maybe it's because I'm having to program in python Oct 21 16:46:12 I'm tired, I'm tired of program in C for the past 3 days solid .. Oct 21 16:46:28 yea Oct 21 16:46:33 that would make me tired too Oct 21 16:49:36 It is nice when everything starts to work though :) Oct 21 16:50:44 yea, I know that feeling Oct 21 16:50:57 hmm Oct 21 16:51:08 ssh key generation is not very fast on an n800 Oct 21 16:51:15 Hah Oct 21 16:51:22 That's why I did that on my laptop ;) Oct 21 16:52:05 my n800 was quite warm after generating keys :) Oct 21 17:01:07 pepeepepepepeeeee pepeppepepeeeeeee I wanna be sedated. Oct 21 17:01:15 Hello :) Oct 21 17:05:55 timely_changelog: uh, does dump work in microb? Oct 21 17:08:25 close function doesn't seem to work either Oct 21 17:08:30 neither does alert Oct 21 17:09:33 oh, alert does Oct 21 17:09:58 hrm Oct 21 17:10:05 so does close, when called from the urlbar Oct 21 17:18:53 If I'm running it2007he does that disable the internal mic? Oct 21 17:23:45 man, debugging a script is pretty frustrating with no error console Oct 21 17:25:39 Hehe Oct 21 17:26:00 "Bet you can't guess what went wrong! :P" Oct 21 17:26:01 hi can some one help me with dbus-monitor and dbus-send Oct 21 17:26:23 GeneralAntilles: yea, that's basically what it's doing to me Oct 21 17:27:56 db48x: why are you debugging without error console? Oct 21 17:29:08 GeneralAntilles: Welcome to my daily life at work. ;) Oct 21 17:29:14 flip^: Yeah, Haskell jobs aren't so rare. Oct 21 17:29:36 Haha, I can only imagine the pain, zerojay. Oct 21 17:29:59 It becomes trial and error. Oct 21 17:31:03 Made worse still if you don't have the phone physically on hand to play with. Oct 21 17:31:46 Urg, "Here, try this and tell me it doesn't work in 24 hours."? :P Oct 21 17:32:08 Average week at work for me. Oct 21 17:32:35 E-mail from our publisher... "we have the XXXXX prerelease phone in the office for the week, we want builds." Oct 21 17:32:44 Me: "Specs?" Them: "None." Oct 21 17:32:57 heh Oct 21 17:33:06 Me: "Screen size?" Them: "You expect us to count pixels?" Oct 21 17:33:13 Me: "YES." Oct 21 17:33:41 work can be nutty like that Oct 21 17:33:56 We fire off a build trying to stick close to norms for that manufacturer's phones.. send builds off, wait a day. Oct 21 17:34:15 Receive a bunch of bugs written in very broken english. Oct 21 17:34:33 "Pressing 5 key makes text disappear." Oct 21 17:34:46 Me: "You are SCROLLING, you idiot!" Oct 21 17:34:53 Haha Oct 21 17:35:14 "Text in box 94 is completely incorrect." Oct 21 17:35:23 Um... why? Oct 21 17:35:32 "Text in box 94 now incompletely incorrect." Oct 21 17:35:49 pupnik: They have a tendancy to surprise you like that, honestly. Oct 21 17:35:56 this reminds me of the famous pilot-mechanic dialogues Oct 21 17:36:49 http://www.footflyer.com/Articles/JustForFun/AviationHumor/pilots_mechanics.htm pilot bug reports Oct 21 17:36:59 P: Target radar hums. Oct 21 17:37:00 S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics. Oct 21 17:37:07 Yeah, I remember these. Oct 21 17:37:50 P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear. Oct 21 17:37:51 S: Evidence removed. Oct 21 17:37:54 lmao Oct 21 17:38:23 It's very easy to respond cynically. Oct 21 17:38:42 The only reason I don't is because I know it just means they're going to spend the next three days asking what I said. Oct 21 17:39:02 heh Oct 21 17:39:35 sucks they don't always give you specs tho Oct 21 17:40:15 Yeah, that's a pain. Oct 21 17:40:43 Send us the screen size and a few other basic things. Oct 21 17:40:54 I do backflips if I get a keymap. Oct 21 17:41:36 that's how it goes tho, dealing with bigger companies Oct 21 17:42:22 hi all Oct 21 17:42:28 been there myself doing software work for autodesk many aeons ago Oct 21 17:44:17 Wonder if working for ye olde Nokia would be better. Oct 21 17:46:48 woo. Oct 21 17:46:57 +t Oct 21 17:51:26 Working for Nokia would be my dream job :) Oct 21 17:51:51 Especially if it was in Finland .. I could go skiing for cheap :) Oct 21 18:02:02 is it just me or does this gtk.TreeModel just look too complex for what it does to others too? Oct 21 18:04:47 alterego, one friend went to Finland for his Erasmus. He said that Finnish girls are so hot... haha Oct 21 18:31:31 Jiten, that's a side effect of it being written in C. IT is very flexible though and once you understand using it it's quite easy :) Oct 21 18:31:38 Like everything I guess ^_^ Oct 21 18:36:18 alterego: well, I'm mostly annoyed at the interface being presented as is in pygtk. Oct 21 18:36:33 Yeah, I don't like the pyGTK interface. Oct 21 18:36:48 Ruby's is a _lot_ nicer especially signal handling. Oct 21 18:37:15 The people that did the ruby-gnome2 stuff are genius' in my book :) Oct 21 18:38:07 pygtk is mostly ok but ... a few things are glaring exceptions. Oct 21 18:38:48 What are you working on? Oct 21 18:39:22 this mnemosyne port I've been working on for the last few days Oct 21 18:39:44 alterego: I haven't ever played with Ruby before, but your work has me interested in trying it. Oct 21 18:40:02 for some reason ComboBox widget wants me to use TreeStore for the list. Oct 21 18:40:11 Interesting. Oct 21 18:40:27 umm TreeModel Oct 21 18:40:30 Not ListStore? Oct 21 18:40:47 ListStore is a descendant of TreeModel .. Oct 21 18:41:18 yes, ListStore I'm using. I guess I'm getting tired when I slip like this. Oct 21 18:41:35 :) Oct 21 18:41:43 Tell me about it. Oct 21 18:41:47 I'm sick of libosso :) Oct 21 18:41:50 anyway, back to figuring out why the list gets populated but every choice is empty. Oct 21 18:41:51 and dbus .. Oct 21 18:42:20 Jiten, have you created a text renderer? Oct 21 18:42:28 And assigned it to the column? Oct 21 18:42:42 Oh wait .. This is a ComboBox .. My bad :) Oct 21 18:42:50 My N800 can't load some URLs at one WiFi site. Like Community at maemo.org. Any TCP/IP issues? Oct 21 18:43:13 alterego: I'm starting to think I just might have to do that. Oct 21 18:43:13 SE-Wilco, sounds more like an issue with your location. Oct 21 18:43:54 or then just forget letting glade create this one and create new one with the simplifying functions Oct 21 18:44:31 :) Oct 21 18:45:37 sounds like cell renderers aren't getting created/set up for some reason Oct 21 18:46:28 I'm completely baffled at what hoops I have to jump through to get something this simple to work. Oct 21 18:46:50 gtk.Combo widget looks pretty much what I want and simple enough but that's deprecated. Oct 21 18:47:02 and glade doesn't even list that anywhere. Oct 21 18:48:43 ah, now it works, I just had to add a dummy element in the list in glade. Oct 21 18:48:47 SE-Wilco: buggy wlan-router, check this out https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1636 Oct 21 18:48:52 Weird Oct 21 18:49:15 I can see the main maemo.org page but Community just keeps saying "Connecting". Oct 21 18:49:57 SE-Wilco: Works for me Oct 21 18:50:08 Same for 'Bugs and features'. Hard to look for this bug. Oct 21 18:50:27 anyway, I want this done so I can get started on trying if I can manage to make usable input method. Oct 21 18:53:38 I've got an idea of how to make usable input system with which you can input whole words with one stroke. Oct 21 18:56:56 Sounds interesting. Oct 21 18:58:35 Grr. Also the lib for Pidgin won't finish downloading into AppMgr. Oct 21 18:59:04 yes, it's quite simple really. first assign an angle for each letter, for example 0 for a, 13 for b, 26 for c and so on. Oct 21 18:59:35 then when you want to type a word, you try to draw lines as close to the angles as you can. Oct 21 19:00:29 when you lift the stylus from the touchscreen, it decodes the input with the assumption that there are some errors. Finds the closest word in it's dictionary that matches. Oct 21 19:00:54 SE-Wilco: did you try this to solve connection problem? gconftool-2 --set --type int '/system/osso/connectivity/IAP/wlan_sleep_timeout' Oct 21 19:00:57 '1000' Oct 21 19:02:07 could benefit from predictive text input as well as pattern matching how close the angles are to the ideal angles for different words. Oct 21 19:05:21 trunneml_, I'm back now Oct 21 19:41:33 hello, is there a way to make an n800 to a wlan access point? to use umts/hsdpa with handy to n800 and then to laptop(s) Oct 21 19:42:10 Yes Oct 21 19:42:26 I've seen something like that on the maemo wiki Oct 21 19:48:24 Hi guys, ukmp 1.7alpha 7 is now available for testing. Oct 21 19:48:25 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2371/UKMP-1.70Alpha7.deb Oct 21 19:48:36 Works on n810 as well (need python though) Oct 21 19:49:19 It has been bug fixes as well as new realtime reflection and pointer glow. Oct 21 19:49:50 Both of these will be improved before the 1.7 final, but I would like to get impressions from you guys early on. Oct 21 19:50:20 So, in case you have n800 / n810 and have been using ukmp on it, please test that out and let me know what you think Oct 21 19:51:15 everyone who has a n810 raise their hands! :-) Oct 21 19:51:28 * konttori raises his hand Oct 21 19:51:37 * konttori feels lonely Oct 21 19:51:40 * m-vo raises hand Oct 21 19:52:29 * tko slaps the nokians Oct 21 19:53:25 if you need python installer file, let me know. I can add that to garage. Oct 21 19:53:34 (for n810 that is) Oct 21 19:53:38 * timely_changelog gets back from a movie w/ n810 in hand Oct 21 19:53:51 stardust was good Oct 21 19:54:13 too bad i almost missed it because i couldn't figure out that the movie with the Finnish title that i was looking a was stardust... Oct 21 19:54:42 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2372/python2.5-runtime.install Oct 21 19:54:49 python for n810 install is there Oct 21 19:55:02 It contains all the needed repos. Oct 21 19:55:05 t?htip?ly... Oct 21 19:55:11 stardust was truly great! Oct 21 19:55:15 I loved it! Oct 21 19:55:57 One bug, it doesn't parse em-dashes in my media filenames correction, konttori. Oct 21 19:55:59 Anyone want an easy wiki edit? Oct 21 19:56:03 *correctly Oct 21 19:56:47 konttori, your .install has lots of bora repositories, that doesn't sound right for a device running chinook (like the n810). Oct 21 19:58:14 what is em-dash? Oct 21 19:58:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash Oct 21 19:58:52 m-vo: yeah, but it seems that to get python installed (there is no final release yet), you need all those repos Oct 21 19:59:00 A dash that is as wide as a upper case "M". Oct 21 19:59:23 ahh... So, how do they turn out ? Does it drop them completely? Oct 21 19:59:36 Yes, still doesn't sound right. I am just pointing out instances of your repository mess. Oct 21 20:00:14 äa? or something like that Oct 21 20:00:19 Only showed up during loading Oct 21 20:00:31 and I can't seem to pull up the videos section to check the file it was on. Oct 21 20:02:22 m-vo: what mess? If it depends on something that is only available in bora, then so be it. That is for testing purposes only until nokia is done with the chinook implementation of python Oct 21 20:02:51 GeneralAntilles:Hmm... as in nothing happens when you click on the videos link? Oct 21 20:03:14 If the python implementation in the bora distribution works for a chinook device, why isn't it in the chinook distribution? Oct 21 20:03:19 One video comes a quarter of the way onto the left side of the screen Oct 21 20:03:21 but stays there Oct 21 20:03:25 Music works fine. Oct 21 20:03:36 <|tbb|> what chinook stays for Oct 21 20:03:46 m-vo, probably because the device and the OS aren't released yet. Oct 21 20:06:04 maybe with hostapd?? Oct 21 20:06:06 well, the SDK beta is out already. Oct 21 20:06:27 beta Oct 21 20:07:13 m-vo: the python comes from sardine. The dependencies are in bora. Oct 21 20:07:38 so it's almost there now, but not quite. Oct 21 20:08:18 Right, that's the Sardine mess. (My fault due to lazyness.) It should have been rebased on the SDK beta as soon as it came out. (The alpha SDK was based on Sardine, btw.) Oct 21 20:08:26 wtf? some dependencies that were in bora are missing from chinook? Oct 21 20:09:27 GeneralAntilles, I blame myself for half of the mess, btw, but I seem to be one of only few people who perceive the current situation as a mess. Oct 21 20:10:37 I think some of the bindings just aren't there yet. e.g. gpsd. Oct 21 20:10:42 I'm perceiving too many individual messes all round :-/ Oct 21 20:10:44 so that's why it's not out yet Oct 21 20:11:05 and probably why it hasn't been properly fixed to put the dependencies to chinook. Oct 21 20:11:43 maybe, that would fit our usual approach of laying a golden eggs or die trying. Oct 21 20:11:48 anyway, GeneralAntilles: Did you find the glow effect irritating? Oct 21 20:11:59 Not really, mostly pointless. Oct 21 20:12:17 Hmm. Oct 21 20:12:24 m-vo: without the trying part, really Oct 21 20:12:26 Less interesting when it doesn't so much move around as jump from place to place. Oct 21 20:12:59 Ahh.. Indeed, it is pointless. I'm hoping to add to it to get some wow effect out of it. That point is mostly a stub at the moment Oct 21 20:13:13 waiting for the right content. Oct 21 20:13:35 I would highlight the selected media icon, though. Oct 21 20:13:54 The reflections on the images look good Oct 21 20:14:02 don't care for the reflections on the title text, though Oct 21 20:14:06 it mostly just makes it hard to read. Oct 21 20:14:19 You mean that when you click on the music icon, it highlights that? Yeah, I intend to drop that. Oct 21 20:14:45 I agree on the title thing. It's waiting for text repositionings Oct 21 20:14:54 Add a Photoshop glow filter to the icon that's selected. Oct 21 20:14:58 should look cooler after the text is repositioned. Oct 21 20:15:24 GeneralAntilles: I may drop the icons completely soon. Oct 21 20:15:52 So, I won't add the 'selected item' functionality there for that reason. Oct 21 20:16:01 but it is a good point nevertheless Oct 21 20:16:11 Right, right. :) Oct 21 20:16:19 What are you replacing the icons with? Oct 21 20:16:28 * m-vo is uploading sqlite... Oct 21 20:16:43 err, "uploading sqlite docs into brain..." Oct 21 20:16:50 Also, think you could change the transition from overview to selection so that the item you select moves into place in the bottom right corner? Oct 21 20:27:40 I'm adding a view for that .. a 'main menu' of sorts. Oct 21 20:32:42 m-vo: how is it going? Did you read about virtual tables? They sound really interesting Oct 21 20:34:29 no, not yet. Manifest types sound great to a fan of dynamic typing like me. Oct 21 20:34:53 I have no clue about sql, tho. Have to learn that, too.... Oct 21 20:36:50 first thing to learn is when not to use it Oct 21 20:37:47 a two dimensional data-set alone does not justify it Oct 21 20:39:02 yeah. As long as you are just using it for simple retrieval from 2d table, hash tables are usually superior to using sql engine for it Oct 21 20:39:10 Seen too much of this attitude: 'you have data? then you need a RDBMS!' Oct 21 20:39:11 <_Monkey> I haven't seen 'too', pupnik_ Oct 21 20:39:21 sqlite is not interesting because of sql, but because it has figured out transactions, etc. Wouldn't want to reimplement all of that just to avoid sql. :) Oct 21 20:39:43 But for storing and sharing, it is really good, even for those 2d tables. Oct 21 20:40:01 i'm not saying anyone here is guilty of misapplying sql :) Oct 21 20:41:02 not many even use it to begin with ;) Oct 21 20:41:43 Nope, seriously, your point is well taken. It is indeed easy to use it for pointless tasks as well and slow down your program because of the overhead. Oct 21 20:41:57 heh, the sql tutorial starts by explaining SELECT. But I don't even have a table yet! Oct 21 20:42:55 unfortunately you need to know how SELECT works in order to design a table Oct 21 20:43:38 (well, designing one table isn't too hard, but the whole set you tables you will need requires that understanding) Oct 21 20:44:16 yeah, but the tutorial could tell me to how to create a example table. It's a tutorial, after all. Oct 21 20:44:22 yea Oct 21 20:44:49 you have to store a few pages of information in brain before you can do anything Oct 21 20:45:02 It's actually not a tutorial, just a brief explanation of SQL concepts.... :/ Oct 21 20:45:41 once you get past the initial hurdles, sql is pretty straight-forward Oct 21 20:46:00 the really funny thing is that it was essentially designed as the primary user interface for the database Oct 21 20:46:07 Try out this indt guys tutorial on sqlite: http://www.initd.org/tracker/pysqlite/wiki/basicintro Oct 21 20:46:36 It goes pretty quickly though all the simple stuff. easy to test the code. Oct 21 20:47:14 why do you want documentation anyway? :) Oct 21 20:47:53 night! Oct 21 20:48:43 Hmm, I wonder if I should release wordpress 2.3 package for maemo -- upgrade from 2.0.9 is not perfect :/ Oct 21 20:49:59 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: Ping! Can I have a variable on the right-hand-side of "Build-Depends:"? You know, like "Depends:" can have "${shlibs:Depends}" on its RHS? Oct 21 20:50:28 <_|Nix|_> It'd be useful if I could do that, so I can use the same setup to build on both bora and chinook ... Oct 21 20:51:11 _|Nix|_: not really. however you can alternatives like "Build-Depends: foo-bora | foo-chinook" Oct 21 20:51:36 <_|Nix|_> suihkulokki: Ooooh! So, it'll build if at least one is present. Oct 21 20:51:48 <_|Nix|_> suihkulokki: Is it a short-circuit | ? Oct 21 20:52:27 <_|Nix|_> suihkulokki: Cuz, I'm thinking libhildon1-dev | hildon-libs-dev *grin* Oct 21 20:52:31 short-circuit ? Oct 21 20:52:47 IIRC there were three different algorithms for install Build-Depends (at least) :) Oct 21 20:52:47 <_|Nix|_> suihkulokki: If it finds the first one it doesn't look for the second one. Oct 21 20:53:03 _|Nix|_: yep. Oct 21 20:53:14 dpkg-buildpackage just checks the presence of things, not try to install anything Oct 21 20:53:33 <_|Nix|_> tko: I know, but I've already done the right things in configure.ac Oct 21 20:53:46 <_|Nix|_> tko: However, my control file was good only on Bora. Oct 21 20:54:03 <_|Nix|_> tko: But "|" is a simple answer. Oct 21 20:54:35 <_|Nix|_> Oooh ... but now I need foo | :o) Oct 21 20:54:48 <_|Nix|_> So, an optional Build-depends ... Oct 21 20:56:14 wouldn't it be nice if someone had already thought this through while breaking all the APIs...? Oct 21 20:56:20 _|Nix|_, foo | can be optimized away. Oct 21 20:56:50 in other words, foo isn't really a build-dependency. Oct 21 20:56:58 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: True ... Oct 21 20:57:32 <_|Nix|_> I guess I really /do/ want it, it's just that etrunko hasn't added it to chinook-extras yet :o) Oct 21 20:57:41 <_|Nix|_> I'm talking about avahi Oct 21 20:57:56 <_|Nix|_> ... and if I don't have it, I can't build the Bonjour plugin ... Oct 21 20:58:17 <_|Nix|_> ... and I have it on Bora, but not Chinook ... Oct 21 20:58:32 just stick the bora binary into chinook extras. Oct 21 20:58:45 debian isn't too great in handling optional build dependencies Oct 21 20:58:48 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: Not gonna work. Needs a rebuild. Oct 21 20:58:49 >:-) Oct 21 20:59:15 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: The Bora binary depends on dbus-1-2, whereas Chinook ships dbus-1-3 Oct 21 20:59:22 _|Nix|_: so rebuild and upload to extras? =) Oct 21 20:59:35 tko, i thnk it's good to be flexible in configure.ac and strict in debian/control and debian/rules. Oct 21 20:59:57 _|Nix|_, I use libhildon1-dev | hildon-libs-dev and it works fine Oct 21 20:59:58 <_|Nix|_> tko: I've asked etrunko to do that. I don't wanna mess with that, because, who knows, I may not have the right environment, etc. He's done it before. I haven't. Oct 21 21:00:06 <_|Nix|_> inz: I'm about to do that :o) Oct 21 21:00:12 I.e., upstream should be portable and cope with optional packages not being present, but when building for debian, you want a well controlled configuration. Oct 21 21:01:14 m-vo: I almost hope you get to maintain many debian packages that come with build dependencies to mysql and the kitchen sink :) Oct 21 21:01:14 Now, having more than one well controlled configuration in one debian source package (one for Debian itself, one for Ubuntu, one for Emdebian, one for maemo), that's where it gets interesting. Oct 21 21:01:54 <_|Nix|_> *sigh* ... I'm thinking about committing a horrible attrocity: "Build-Depends: ... @AVAHI_DEV_PACKAGE@ ..." + wrapper script for dpkg-buildpackage - at least until etrunko comes through. Oct 21 21:02:26 * _|Nix|_ dons spacesuit Oct 21 21:02:35 that's where the madness lies Oct 21 21:02:48 it's evil enough for SONAME Oct 21 21:02:51 Hmm, what about just leaving it out. You have to rerelease once avahi becomes available anyway. Oct 21 21:03:18 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: I'm not releasing. I'm waiting for upstream's 2.2.2. This is just for me. Oct 21 21:03:41 Ahh, then just build avahi for yourself. Oct 21 21:03:49 <_|Nix|_> I just wanna have one command to run that'll build on both Bora and Chinook. Oct 21 21:04:02 jhbuild install :) Oct 21 21:04:41 _|Nix|_, right, I get it. Hmm.... Oct 21 21:04:48 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: ... but then I can't test it on the tablet ... well, I suppose I could install avahi on the tablet. However, this may become an "endless shopping list" (as my QM professor called the dependency tree). Oct 21 21:04:54 I wrote a script to do that for ruby-maemo :) Oct 21 21:05:39 <_|Nix|_> Attrocity it is ... *wipe hands* Oct 21 21:07:33 of course you could just tell dpkg to ignore missing build-depends (after verifying that you're missing only the ones blocking on someone else) Oct 21 21:08:23 Hmm, bora is 'obsolete' once chinook comes out, and what you are doing is maintaining a backport of a chinook package for bora. And you want to make it as easy as possible... maintaining a separate backporting branch is too much work? Oct 21 21:08:39 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: Not bora, actually ... gregale. Oct 21 21:08:50 <_|Nix|_> gregale and bora are binary-compatible. Oct 21 21:09:08 Version numbers are easier to work out for me. Oct 21 21:09:10 <_|Nix|_> So, I could ship one binary for N770 and N800. This will no longer be true once Chinook ships. Oct 21 21:09:12 What version is gregale? Oct 21 21:09:17 <_|Nix|_> alterego: 2.2 Oct 21 21:09:22 Right Oct 21 21:09:33 Well, 2.2 is binary compatible but there are API changes. Oct 21 21:09:46 g < b < c .. the version/naming scheme almost makes sense Oct 21 21:10:09 m < g< b < c ? Oct 21 21:10:19 <_|Nix|_> Yep. Oct 21 21:10:45 I think I'll definitely use numbers instead of those tags. Oct 21 21:10:57 _|Nix|_, gregale is the 770 hacker edition? Oct 21 21:10:59 It's confusing to me, I'd hate to think what users would do .. Oct 21 21:11:14 No, gregale is 2.2 Oct 21 21:11:17 HE is 3.2 Oct 21 21:11:25 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: Whatever it is, building against it makes things run on the last N770 firmware Oct 21 21:11:42 2.0 mistral, 2.1 something, 2.2 gregale Oct 21 21:12:15 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: ... as well as on all things pre-chinook. Oct 21 21:12:25 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: ... one binary. Oct 21 21:12:30 2.1, scirocco. Oct 21 21:12:58 _|Nix|_, wow, is that by accident or did we plan it? Oct 21 21:13:00 I got the s correct Oct 21 21:13:15 m-vo: yes, I think so :-P Oct 21 21:13:17 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: Dunno, don't care ... WORKSFORME :o) Oct 21 21:14:01 Didn't we break compatibility with each major release? I am confused now. Oct 21 21:14:14 partially Oct 21 21:14:24 it's a great confusion Oct 21 21:14:25 Anyway, I know that compatibility is not black and white if you look at a complete OS. Oct 21 21:14:28 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: That may be the case on the system as a whole, but, I guess, not on those parts needed for Pidgin. Oct 21 21:14:55 <_|Nix|_> m-vo: So, if you had a "Christmas tree" project, you'd need separate binaries. Oct 21 21:15:49 * _|Nix|_ switches to the Chinook target and tries to build Pidgin. If you hear a loud bang, call me an ambulance :o) Oct 21 21:16:12 Heh Oct 21 21:21:06 I got a rather fresh idea of how slow n800 actually is. I decided to finally see if my program works on the device too. Oct 21 21:21:54 apparently not so good idea to implement simple html parser in python. it's _slow_ even for just a couple of lines. Oct 21 21:22:12 Doesn't sounds so simple .. Oct 21 21:22:20 REXML works pretty well. Oct 21 21:23:01 well, it parses html and sets up gtk.TextView so it shows it as well as it can. Oct 21 21:23:46 * m-vo pities the little ARM CPU. Oct 21 21:24:17 I was initially thinking about using gtkhtml instead but couldn't find python bindings Oct 21 21:24:20 Jiten, be happy that it is just slow, and not impossible. :) Oct 21 21:25:47 it takes ~200ms to show the text I guess. Oct 21 21:28:04 I guess I get to learn how to make a python wrapper for gtkhtml. Oct 21 21:29:30 gtkhtml wrapper was in python-gnome IIRC Oct 21 21:31:52 maemo has a version of gtkhtml from which gnome dependencies have been removed... Oct 21 21:47:55 Is there any magic in relational data base theory? Seems all pretty straightforward to me. Oct 21 21:57:53 alterego: you're right, the parser I'm using isn't so simple ... that's what you get when you use other people's code. Oct 21 23:34:37 anyone have experience with IT2007HE? Will it work with a BT headset? Is there a way to tweak the finger use to be more like IT2006 Oct 21 23:41:11 on the n800, how do i save url of a picture ... to the C+P buffer Oct 22 00:30:39 Yay! My N800 should arrive either today or tomorrow. Oct 22 00:30:42 Finally. =| Oct 22 00:33:30 fun! Oct 22 00:40:55 sciboy, from conceptart? Oct 22 00:41:32 unique311, Yep. Oct 22 00:42:24 you're not on the irc channel Oct 22 00:43:04 I'm here much more often than I am over there. Oct 22 00:43:17 so you getting an N800. been trying to find a descent art program for it forever..compiled a couple of descent ones.. Oct 22 00:43:39 waiting on faint to make its hildon grand entrance.. Oct 22 00:43:58 which other channel? Oct 22 00:44:25 deejoe, He's just kidding, there is no such thing as other channels. Oct 22 00:44:34 =P Oct 22 00:44:38 hmm Oct 22 00:44:44 ? Oct 22 00:45:10 deejoe, ur first time on irc? Oct 22 00:45:14 no Oct 22 00:45:26 I've got . . . 15 channels open, maybe? Oct 22 00:45:27 irc://irc.thundercity.net/conceptart Oct 22 00:45:35 http://www.conceptart.org Oct 22 00:45:35 ah Oct 22 00:45:45 thanks Oct 22 00:46:17 sciboy, i saw your nick on conceptart somewhere..and just wanted to know if it was the same individual.. Oct 22 00:46:31 you didn't have to join CA Oct 22 00:51:09 unique311: i've gotten a few developers interested in tablets so far - no purchases yet Oct 22 00:53:48 unique311, "faint" what's that? Oct 22 00:56:28 sciboy, faint is the port of mypaint to maemo Oct 22 00:56:42 pupnik_, devs Oct 22 00:57:39 the developer for faint doesn't answer his freaking forum messages. Oct 22 00:57:49 want to know the status of his port.. Oct 22 00:58:02 heh Oct 22 00:58:03 think my tablet is dying.... Oct 22 00:58:26 screen went black on me twice, forcing me to take out the battery for a restart.. Oct 22 00:58:44 :/ Oct 22 00:59:55 unique311, Well I'll be doing some small game dev. or maemo. Oct 22 00:59:55 not sure but i think it was becuase of gizmo... Oct 22 01:00:38 was messing with gizmo, the times it went black on me. Oct 22 01:00:40 game dev.. Oct 22 01:01:07 for* Oct 22 01:01:58 got a game in mind? Oct 22 01:02:13 In mind? I got full design documents laid out. Oct 22 01:02:38 Action adventure, 2d side-scrolling for the most part, non-platformer though. Oct 22 01:02:49 and non-shooter. Oct 22 01:03:20 pupnik_, what happen to the dev that was working on angstron? Oct 22 01:10:21 sciboy, mtpaint http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/ = Faint https://garage.maemo.org/projects/faint/ Oct 22 01:10:42 Already found it all with google. =P Oct 22 01:10:48 k Oct 22 01:11:03 unique311: neo- Oct 22 01:11:20 haven't seen him around - got a bit frustrated with feedback he was getting Oct 22 01:11:37 ok Oct 22 01:11:50 feedback for the game Oct 22 01:12:13 yea Oct 22 01:12:19 neostrider Oct 22 01:12:20 the game was descent...just needed minor graphic work. Oct 22 01:12:20 <_Monkey> somebody said neostrider was probably building you a checkers game as we speak :) Oct 22 01:12:27 lol Oct 22 01:12:42 checkers.. Oct 22 01:28:04 so, what can us n800 owners expect for the next internet tablet os upgrade? Oct 22 01:29:39 The kitchen sink was finally implemented. Oct 22 01:29:59 70MHz CPU boost Oct 22 01:29:59 still no java... Oct 22 01:30:34 unique311, You think that's bad, still no 64-bit plugin. Oct 22 01:30:43 Under any platform. =| Oct 22 01:32:13 64 bit java Oct 22 01:33:09 i have an amd desktop..and tried 64 bit xp on it once..yeah, very sad stuff...it was very fast...but the lack of support really sucks. Oct 22 01:59:04 so no mtpaint / faint for the n800 yet Oct 22 01:59:05 ? Oct 22 01:59:28 its just a compiled version of it on garage.. Oct 22 01:59:57 question on the garage forum are not being answered..so i guess the dev is hard at work on it.. Oct 22 02:03:36 ah Oct 22 02:26:19 hi Oct 22 02:27:23 for some reason my mmc keeps being mounted as read-only Oct 22 02:27:49 is this a know issue? Oct 22 02:28:00 Are you on the latest firmware? Oct 22 02:28:09 With the recent mmc fixes? Oct 22 02:28:14 huh Oct 22 02:28:32 lbut it was working before Oct 22 02:28:43 When was the last time you updated your firmware? Oct 22 02:28:56 2 montths Oct 22 02:29:08 When a card is set to read-only, it's because the card's been damaged. Oct 22 02:29:11 i am booting from mmc Oct 22 02:29:20 uhoh Oct 22 02:29:28 Usually, it's not permanent. Oct 22 02:29:35 Just requires reformatting the card. Oct 22 02:29:50 does this mean i have to reinstall everything Oct 22 02:30:11 and reinstall to the mmc Oct 22 02:30:23 The problem usually stems from people removing a card while it is still being written to (give it some time even after your OS says it's complete). Oct 22 02:30:52 but it was working fine before Oct 22 02:31:23 There's also the recent fix for some card problems that killed larger cards repeatedly where letting the screen dim while the card was being written to would kill it. The latest firmware fixes that. Oct 22 02:31:39 the other thing is , i have 2 partitins on my mmc Oct 22 02:31:51 the boot one is fine Oct 22 02:32:08 but the fat32 one is read only Oct 22 02:32:23 Copy the files off it, format/repartition and copy it back on. Oct 22 02:32:27 You probably damaged the partition because it was being read/written to when you removed a card or turned off power to the tablet. Oct 22 02:32:38 ahh Oct 22 02:33:03 so i only need to format that 1 partition Oct 22 02:33:15 Well, most likely, yes.. but I can't be sure of it. Oct 22 02:33:25 Do yourself a favor and do what I do. Oct 22 02:33:25 * jeremyb sees lots of repitition in the last 20 lines Oct 22 02:33:46 ok thanks guys Oct 22 02:33:54 Always wait about 2 or 3 minutes after your OS says a transfer is complete to the card before doing anything like removing/turning off the tablet. Oct 22 02:34:07 If it's a very large transfer, give it 5 minutes. Oct 22 02:34:23 that's a lot of latency Oct 22 02:34:29 i always do Oct 22 02:34:33 jeremyb: Yeah, but you just want to be sure. Oct 22 02:34:44 is there some kind of standby mode? Oct 22 02:34:45 thats a a 'feature' Oct 22 02:35:15 zerojay: but what if you want to transfer to or from a desktop and you don't have time to dilly dally? Oct 22 02:35:18 jeremyb, My computer has a buffer, it copies a file to the buffer not the card itself so you have to wait for it to finish before unmounting Oct 22 02:35:22 That's also how the card readers work. The writes are flushed to the card reader fast (at which point your OS says it's complete) while the card reader is still writing the rest of it. Oct 22 02:35:45 jeremyb: Start your transfer earlier or deal with the reality that you'll have corrupted partitions all the time. Oct 22 02:35:47 also , how come my 770 tuns on when I plug it in Oct 22 02:35:54 sciboy: and you can unmount in a matter of seconds after the fd is closed, right? Oct 22 02:36:10 is that another 'feature' Oct 22 02:36:36 ekim\770: It's not the tablet's fault if this is the kind of thing you're having. Oct 22 02:36:38 well the OS should be aware of when it's still being written and display that Oct 22 02:36:45 jeremyb, Not sure what you mean by fd, but afterwards it's instant. Oct 22 02:36:46 jeremyb: It can't. Oct 22 02:37:11 one more thing Oct 22 02:37:14 sciboy: file descriptor Oct 22 02:37:34 how does the 770 microphone work ? Oct 22 02:37:41 By magic. Oct 22 02:37:42 sciboy: you can also force an early flush on your desktop Oct 22 02:38:00 can you on a nokia tablet? Oct 22 02:38:15 how does the 770 microphone work ?... Oct 22 02:38:29 The tablet isn't the problem. It's just the way card readers work. Oct 22 02:38:54 Happens on every OS. Oct 22 02:39:41 seriouly...please tell me so I can leave Oct 22 02:39:43 Some will, however, complain that the card can't be unmounted yet if attempted while the card reader is writing. Oct 22 02:39:53 ekim\770: I don't have the 770, so I don't know. Oct 22 02:40:10 k thx bye Oct 22 02:40:18 haha Oct 22 02:40:29 oh boy... Oct 22 02:43:28 zerojay: well i was thinking more about internal hard drives but i still see no reason the OS couldn't be made aware Oct 22 02:43:53 or usb flash for that matter Oct 22 02:44:08 jeremyb: The only real reason is that they just weren't made that way. It's stupid. Oct 22 02:44:25 zerojay: ok, so why not change it now? Oct 22 02:44:56 Same reason we didn't suddenly move to DVDs that were 12GB in size. Oct 22 02:45:14 Backwards compatibility with older drives... standards, etc... Oct 22 02:45:35 * disq remembers the times when the 770 microphone didn't have the driver Oct 22 02:45:40 Well, those are my best guesses. I'm not a card reader engineer or anything. Oct 22 02:45:52 So do I, disq, so do I. Oct 22 02:46:13 Other option is to just not use card readers. Oct 22 02:46:32 unique311: around? seen my solution to the synergy auto cursor show/hide thingy? i posted it as a comment in quicksynergy news Oct 22 02:48:39 zerojay: i'm not saying everyone should adopt it but i don't see why they should continue being made the way you describe. is it so much cheaper as is? and yes i'm keeping compat in mind... is there no room within existing specs to add such a notification for the OS without breaking existing devices/drivers/OSs which are already compliant? Oct 22 02:48:54 anyway i gotta get some sleep, night. Oct 22 02:50:25 jeremyb: I suspect it's mostly necessary to have cache involved in the data transfer for things to run smoothly. Oct 22 02:50:37 and there's no easy way to tell the host machine that the card isn't done writing yet Oct 22 02:50:41 GeneralAntilles: i have no objection to using a cache... Oct 22 02:50:55 why not? Oct 22 02:51:52 Because as far as the card reader is concerned, the OS doesn't need to know. Oct 22 02:52:23 It's lame... but what can you do? Oct 22 02:52:45 Just wait until the next standards are being discussed and raise your voice, I suppose. Oct 22 02:55:35 Anyone using xkbd-bthid? Oct 22 02:58:10 or any other means to make your Nokia into a bluetooth keyboard for another device? Oct 22 02:58:28 That's the only one available Oct 22 02:58:39 Only have a Mac here, so I haven't been able to use it Oct 22 02:58:41 looks cool, though. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 22 02:59:56 2007