**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 04 02:59:57 2007 Nov 04 04:09:33 Heyas~ Nov 04 04:10:04 Is it advisable to upgrade a 770 to the IT OS 2007 edition? Flash / Skype support sounds good to me :P Nov 04 04:10:26 Is it a streamlined process or is it very difficult though :| Nov 04 04:12:29 Meep, my WLAN isn't accepted anyway :| Nov 04 04:14:01 Oh wait, there we go Nov 04 04:15:24 Has anyone had any bad experiences with this? Nov 04 04:20:42 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithmacosx/ Can I use this method with the N770 IT 2007 HE? Nov 04 04:21:57 I think I'll wait a while, the main thing for me is getting skype running :| Nov 04 05:22:54 re Nov 04 06:25:56 hello? Nov 04 06:26:16 olleh? Nov 04 06:34:30 hm, failed to refresh package list. repository is prohibited for access. Nov 04 06:36:28 heh Nov 04 06:36:40 known issue? Nov 04 06:36:50 no. which repository? Nov 04 06:37:01 repository.maemo.org/pool/ Nov 04 06:37:07 gregale Nov 04 06:37:07 <_Monkey> i guess gregale is something else entirely Nov 04 06:40:51 the same "locutus" as on gein.vistech server? Nov 04 06:42:23 eh, any nokian might like to check their press release rss.. it contains a "Test test test release" Nov 04 06:42:33 url? Nov 04 06:42:40 Test test test release Nov 04 06:42:45 http://www.nokia.com/pressrss/rss.xml Nov 04 06:43:01 nice Nov 04 06:43:23 * timelyx sighs Nov 04 06:43:27 yeah.. a bit funny :) Nov 04 06:43:31 well, it's nokia.com, not nokiausa.com Nov 04 06:43:33 no one should care Nov 04 06:43:47 heh! Nov 04 06:44:07 sorry, the first thing i do when i read Nokia content is decide whether it's en-US Nov 04 06:44:10 on average, it isn't, Nov 04 06:44:23 at which point, why in the world should i bother? :) Nov 04 06:45:19 timelyx: well, the "Press" link on nokiausa.com goes to nokia.com Nov 04 06:45:24 oh fsck Nov 04 06:45:30 ok ok, i'll get on it Nov 04 06:45:32 :D Nov 04 06:45:36 "idiots" Nov 04 06:45:50 * timelyx was afraid of that Nov 04 06:46:35 timelyx: you can give me a N810 as a "thank you"... ;) Nov 04 06:46:44 i might send you a tshirt Nov 04 06:46:50 hih Nov 04 06:46:55 * timelyx does that more frequently Nov 04 06:47:11 when i give out hardware, i have fairly high expectations Nov 04 06:47:21 (which reminds me, i need to check up on the one device i gave out) Nov 04 07:05:27 what is secure place to get simple theme for nokia phone? Nov 04 07:29:57 zerojay: you're jablet? Nov 04 07:45:34 :) Nov 04 07:45:39 blue and red pill Nov 04 07:45:41 :) Nov 04 07:45:59 hm, temperature? Nov 04 07:46:08 ? Nov 04 07:46:15 aspirine? Nov 04 07:46:31 downloading applications manager hidden option Nov 04 07:46:38 I like the red pill Nov 04 07:47:29 yes, it is cool Nov 04 07:47:51 but, I found repository not just hidden, but impossible to get Nov 04 07:48:01 finally download the libs I needed to run Gnumeric Nov 04 07:48:28 Gnumeric is pretty good Nov 04 07:49:59 good night Nov 04 07:50:00 later Nov 04 07:56:55 gnumeric? Nov 04 07:56:55 <_Monkey> gnumeric is the gnu spreadsheet http://www.maemo.org.br/platform/apt/pool/user/g/gnumeric/ Nov 04 08:01:19 gnome 2 spreadsheet Nov 04 08:02:06 depends: goffice, psiconv, python? Nov 04 08:45:44 * czr peeks Nov 04 09:14:11 timelyx: Yeah. Nov 04 09:14:35 Along with Texrat. Nov 04 09:31:20 Morning, all Nov 04 09:31:35 morn jaffa Nov 04 09:32:29 damn. realized something very scary just now Nov 04 09:32:41 it's almost a month now since I started working with maemo. Nov 04 09:32:43 * czr hides & runs Nov 04 09:39:55 the n810 is on h shelves? Nov 04 09:40:02 the* Nov 04 09:40:24 NAFAIK. And it's a Sunday. Why do you ask? Nov 04 09:41:01 waiting on this damn OS update. Nov 04 09:41:24 my n800 has been off for 4 days now. Nov 04 09:41:35 and i wan't a reason to turn it on. Nov 04 09:42:03 sorry just very impatient. Nov 04 09:42:35 I see. Unlikely to be launched on a Sunday ;-) Nov 04 09:42:41 had a go at an iphone the other day....but prepaid was hard to setup..so i sold it.. Nov 04 09:46:26 had a go at an itouch...that went to my sister after using it for an hour. Nov 04 09:46:50 must say besides looking really good...i don't see the big deal behind the 2 Nov 04 09:47:22 gets alot of attention.... Nov 04 09:47:51 * Jaffa thought the exact opposite after playing with a both: here's a well-thought out device with attention to detail. Some of the corners of IT OS 2007, in comparison, are just a little crufty... Nov 04 09:49:08 thought the exact opposite on the looks of the iphone and itouch? Nov 04 09:49:42 On why I could see they were a big deal. There are very few rich, usable, pretty mobile UIs in existence. Nov 04 09:49:58 ok Nov 04 09:53:00 both devices wee given to me.....made some cash on one.....and guessing my sister lovers me more because of the other one. Nov 04 09:53:16 Successful transactions, then ;-) Nov 04 09:53:25 pretty much. Nov 04 09:55:14 pupnik you around? Nov 04 09:57:46 sup Nov 04 09:59:11 what do you think of steven colbert running for president Nov 04 10:00:11 i don't like him doing it, it's a bad joke Nov 04 10:00:32 things are much too serious now Nov 04 10:00:41 not too sure if its a joke. Nov 04 10:02:23 you getting the PM's Nov 04 10:05:27 basically sending out a strong message...but being a comedian it is going to be taken as a joke. Nov 04 10:22:26 anybody knows when the decision on dev's 810 would be announced? Nov 04 10:22:51 The day of that they go on sale. Nov 04 10:22:58 s/of // Nov 04 10:22:58 Jaffa meant: The day that they go on sale. Nov 04 10:24:22 Jaffa, which is ...? Nov 04 10:24:30 Unknown. Nov 04 10:24:37 Still "mid-November" Nov 04 10:24:39 :) Nov 04 10:24:44 ok thanks Nov 04 11:01:00 AT&T text-to-speech rocks the house Nov 04 11:03:20 I find computers that talk disconcerting. Nov 04 11:03:36 Strange .. My ex-girlfriend said the same thing about me. Nov 04 11:04:43 alterego :-) Nov 04 11:05:09 So .. I started work on a Todo application Nov 04 11:05:59 I figure people seem to want one other than GPE and I need to test ruby-maemo more. Plus it's a good project to test some ideas I have on infrastructure. Nov 04 11:06:51 infrastrcture of what? Nov 04 11:07:02 ruby maemo applications. Nov 04 11:07:08 * czr nods Nov 04 11:07:10 I'm experimenting with MVC patterns Nov 04 11:08:23 sorry my todo is whatever paper lies in my wallet Nov 04 11:08:30 :) Nov 04 11:08:37 That's pretty much the same with me pupnik_ Nov 04 11:08:49 a nice multiplatform synchronizing offline/online time tracking/todo thingy would be nice Nov 04 11:08:54 I have about 50 todo lists in fifty different pockets and machines. Nov 04 11:09:02 i tried doing day planning with my las job Nov 04 11:09:04 czr, that's what I've got in mind. Nov 04 11:09:10 and it was more trouble than it was worth Nov 04 11:09:20 but i know some poeple can really use such things Nov 04 11:09:28 alterego, I'll buy you beer or other evil beverage if it works properly (and I like it ;-) Nov 04 11:09:35 :) Nov 04 11:09:37 but then it's all about integration Nov 04 11:10:15 Yeah, I need something that is accessible from my desktop, as well as from my mobile devices. Nov 04 11:10:16 seeing when coworker will be available - coworker can add a delay to her schedule and the other people in company immediately get notified that she won't be at the meeting Nov 04 11:10:19 etc Nov 04 11:10:31 Yeah, that's long term ideas .. Nov 04 11:10:37 Different application too :P Nov 04 11:10:58 leave that stuff to domain specialists Nov 04 11:11:01 same beer though :-) Nov 04 11:11:55 Screw domain specialists. Nov 04 11:12:06 They can't code :oP Nov 04 11:12:29 yup. just look at the source code of bind! Nov 04 11:12:31 * czr hides & runs Nov 04 11:12:36 Hahah Nov 04 11:15:21 How do priorities normally work? Just three symbolic levels or full numeric customisation? Nov 04 11:15:32 I was thinking: 'low', 'medium' & 'high' .. Nov 04 11:16:43 latter is probably enough Nov 04 11:16:59 Right, keep it simple and work on functionality later. Nov 04 11:17:08 it's not like you're doing a workflow application suitable for cross-team work anyway Nov 04 11:17:13 indeed Nov 04 11:26:06 what's the easiest way to change the dns server my n800 uses? Nov 04 11:26:42 Good question. Nov 04 11:26:51 The only way I can think of is editing /etc/resolv.conf Nov 04 11:27:08 Which isn't exactly friendly. Nov 04 11:27:21 If you set your connection settings manually then you can set it there. Nov 04 11:27:23 I tried that, but sadly I'm unable to log in as root Nov 04 11:27:43 There being the "Connection Manager" .. Nov 04 11:28:49 ahh Nov 04 11:29:18 you can access that even for one you haven't created manually Nov 04 11:29:43 Cool. Nov 04 11:29:52 Good to know. Nov 04 11:30:26 hmm Nov 04 11:30:46 still no dice Nov 04 11:30:54 I hate this wireless "router" Nov 04 11:31:17 Heh Nov 04 11:33:49 this is the third time in three weeks that it's simply lost all of it's settings Nov 04 11:34:07 That's not good. Nov 04 11:34:13 nope Nov 04 11:34:27 I think I'm going to have to find one that I can run OpenWRT on, then return this one Nov 04 11:51:08 Hmm .. My windows aren't getting grouped. Nov 04 11:51:16 hello, is there a way do install maemo in qemu? Nov 04 11:51:51 _in_ qemu? Nov 04 11:52:08 eichi, do you have scratchbox installed? Nov 04 11:53:48 no Nov 04 11:54:05 Well, check the Maemo SDK out. Nov 04 11:54:27 scratchbox comes with the qemu target needed to use the Maemo SDK Nov 04 11:54:28 i want do port od try some apps in maemo without killing my n800 all the time and with better screen etc Nov 04 11:54:41 Install the SDK. Nov 04 11:54:51 How else would you expect to develop software for Maemo? Nov 04 11:56:01 i never did development für an device Nov 04 11:56:22 You should read the Maemo tutorial. Nov 04 11:56:32 You should also read the Maemo introduction too. Nov 04 11:57:58 hi all Nov 04 11:58:04 Aloha Nov 04 11:59:07 Lets see how this works .. Nov 04 11:59:25 Oh, that's nice. Nov 04 11:59:26 in the install.txt of maemo sdk there is a sentence "you need a running maemo 3.1"...where? Nov 04 11:59:36 eichi, read the tutorial. Nov 04 12:00:04 which one? Nov 04 12:00:04 <_Monkey> i guess which one is it? :) Nov 04 12:00:35 Well, presumable you're using OS2007 on the N800 so you should read the 3.X tutorial. Nov 04 12:00:44 s/presumable/presumably Nov 04 12:00:44 ah i have found it Nov 04 12:28:45 hi ;( Nov 04 12:28:47 :) * Nov 04 12:28:50 Heh Nov 04 12:28:52 Hello Nov 04 12:29:11 can I ask a simple question? Nov 04 12:30:22 Only if it really is simple ;) Nov 04 12:30:31 haha Nov 04 12:30:32 look Nov 04 12:31:00 tomorrow i'll have a nokia 770 at home Nov 04 12:31:05 Cool Nov 04 12:31:41 i know its operating system is based on linux Nov 04 12:31:51 Yes, debian Linux Nov 04 12:32:03 but since reviews say that it's quite poor, i wanted to improve it Nov 04 12:32:06 GNU/Linux ;) Nov 04 12:32:08 i've seen the maemo project Nov 04 12:32:22 i'm sorry lol Nov 04 12:32:25 What's poor? Nov 04 12:32:28 Reviews have said what's poor? Nov 04 12:32:52 I thought the maemo reviews have been good .. Nov 04 12:32:52 it looks like the software available when you acquire it Nov 04 12:32:53 Overall. Nov 04 12:33:04 yeah,, the reviews about maemo are excellent Nov 04 12:33:16 Yes, the software is somewhat limited. Nov 04 12:33:25 There are some really good packages though .. Nov 04 12:33:33 so, is maemo kind of another operating system, based on debian too? Nov 04 12:34:00 Kind of yes. Nov 04 12:34:15 Targeted at embedded devices. Nov 04 12:34:25 that's what i was looking for,then Nov 04 12:34:39 Mm, it's not an another OS really. Nov 04 12:34:51 so, do you know any tutorial that explains where to start when i get my nokia? Nov 04 12:34:51 Just supplemental packages for the Nokia provided system. Nov 04 12:35:08 Try the tutorials on maemo.org :) Nov 04 12:35:09 I have an N800 with OS2007, I must say the email client that came with it is useless, the RSS reader shows really often old stuff as new and crashes often, the browser crashes often, but other than those things, the system seems pretty solid. Nov 04 12:35:16 on mameo website i've seen developing stuff :P Nov 04 12:35:26 Hah Nov 04 12:35:36 Yeah, I don't like the email or RSS client much either. Nov 04 12:35:44 The browser doesn't crash too often for me. Nov 04 12:35:54 I have other issues with the browser. Nov 04 12:36:12 Well, what were you looking for? Nov 04 12:36:45 a guide that explains what do i do after buying the device, from a user point of view Nov 04 12:36:53 I consider it somewhat ironic that old stuff on the garage.maemo.org (which AFAIK is maintained by Nokia) RSS feed is nearly always displayed as new in Nokia's own RSS reader :P Nov 04 12:36:54 Use it? Nov 04 12:37:00 i've only found developing documentation Nov 04 12:37:14 Well, it's a pretty full-fledged Linux. Nov 04 12:37:17 not a manual about maemo Nov 04 12:37:37 but a guide to install it Nov 04 12:37:48 Well, a manual comes with the device. Nov 04 12:37:57 It's already installed. Nov 04 12:38:03 * alterego is confused. Nov 04 12:38:10 mee to :P Nov 04 12:38:26 I thought I had to install something completely different Nov 04 12:38:30 like flashing the device Nov 04 12:38:37 Your best bet is to just ask what you would like to do and we point you in the right direction ;) Nov 04 12:38:54 Ah, you can update the 770 to a newer OS if need be. Nov 04 12:39:01 that's what i want! :D Nov 04 12:39:03 The flashing instructions are on the Wiki Nov 04 12:39:15 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ Nov 04 12:39:17 his one? Nov 04 12:39:19 this* Nov 04 12:39:22 You'll want to update it to OS2007 HE (hacker edition) Nov 04 12:39:24 Yes Nov 04 12:39:25 flashing Nov 04 12:39:30 flasher Nov 04 12:39:30 haha thanks! Nov 04 12:39:31 <_Monkey> flasher is probably available from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com Nov 04 12:39:40 Check out that link. Nov 04 12:39:43 too Nov 04 12:40:00 thank you :) Nov 04 12:40:04 No problem. Nov 04 12:40:10 * alterego continues working on his todo app. Nov 04 12:40:24 ;) Nov 04 12:44:14 re Nov 04 12:55:34 wifi is so infuriating Nov 04 12:59:39 so is debugging an internet connection without the aid of dig, ping and traceroute Nov 04 13:02:55 Get a decent router and you'd find wifi as beautiful as the rest of us. Nov 04 13:03:17 :D Nov 04 13:03:35 I've got a cheap buffalo router. Had it for about 5 years and I've never had a single problem with it. Nov 04 13:04:14 yea, I'm about to set this one on fire Nov 04 13:04:24 I just need to find a good accelerant Nov 04 13:06:30 Well, my todo app is coming along nicely. Nov 04 13:07:09 Should have a BETA late afternoon :) Nov 04 13:07:30 (as an aside, I'm not _usually_ driven to mindless violence by appliances) Nov 04 13:07:36 :) Nov 04 13:24:25 'giorno Nov 04 14:11:22 anyone running php/sqlite on n770/n8x0? Nov 04 14:14:21 bye Nov 04 14:28:02 he didn't have much patience. Nov 04 14:31:35 Who does. Nov 04 14:36:50 Any support for PyOpenGL on Nokia? Even if slow? Nov 04 14:37:05 * alterego chuckles. Nov 04 14:37:48 That a no? Nov 04 14:38:08 my module-init-tools don't get upgraded when i go from 3.1 -> to 3.2. anyone else experiencing the same? there's some unmet dependency Nov 04 14:38:18 ilrepo, that's fine. Nov 04 14:38:39 so everything should still work? i'm just getting to know maemo Nov 04 14:38:44 Yes, Nov 04 14:38:49 oh okay. thanks Nov 04 14:39:20 I've seen mentions of PyGame but not any GL. Nov 04 14:39:35 Sure, I believe PyGame is available. Nov 04 14:40:14 I just want to do ~30 polygons, not like a Quake or something, but if there's no GL at all... Nov 04 14:40:25 * alterego chuckles. Nov 04 14:40:47 Try compiling Mesa Nov 04 14:41:00 You might be able to get some OGL capability out of it. Nov 04 14:41:29 I don't have any tablet yet, just considering an 800 if my app idea has a chance. Nov 04 14:41:59 Well, in the future we may get 3D accelerated OpenGL Nov 04 14:42:04 You can always wait until then :) Nov 04 14:42:49 The processor in the N8x0 have a Power VR 3D accelerator which supports the embedded OpenGL platform. Unfortunately the drivers are not available right now. Nov 04 14:45:25 Does Nokia help with that? Nov 04 14:49:13 We're subject to their mercy in that regard. Nov 04 14:49:55 It may be possible to throw a few triangles around with Mesa in the meantime though Nov 04 14:50:34 Seems if they have a 3D accelerator, it's a selling point to have a few classes that mimic the basics that Core Animation does. Nov 04 14:51:15 Well, hopefully they'll get us the drivers sooner rather than later. Nov 04 14:52:18 * alterego asks santa. Nov 04 14:53:21 re Nov 04 14:53:28 re? Nov 04 14:53:36 What is with all this 're' .. Nov 04 14:53:46 re-gards Nov 04 14:53:51 It's a leet way of saying "welcome back". Nov 04 14:54:01 Ah Nov 04 14:54:08 Because only doofs on iWon web games use "wb" ;) Nov 04 14:54:29 Well, my todo app is coming along nicely. Nov 04 14:54:29 <_Monkey> i already had it that way, alterego. Nov 04 14:54:55 Think I might release a BETA a little later. Nov 04 14:55:22 alterego, todo app? Nov 04 14:55:32 Yes, I'm writing a Todo app for maemo. Nov 04 14:55:55 http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_001.png Nov 04 14:56:26 What's the package management on Nokias like? The Zaurus' use a .ipkg format with minimal dep management. I had debian on a Vaio. Nov 04 14:56:37 It uses .debs Nov 04 14:57:02 They seem to do the job. Nov 04 14:57:21 Good apt repo community? Nov 04 14:57:36 Not sure what you mean. Nov 04 14:57:56 When rx_task is done, will it be painless for people who don't know you to find/install it? Nov 04 14:58:07 Yes. Nov 04 14:58:13 They just click on the deb and it installs. Nov 04 14:58:15 halley: see http://downloads.maemo.org/ Nov 04 14:58:25 And the extras repository comes pre-configured in IT OS 2008 Nov 04 14:58:43 Though they have to install Ruby first :) Nov 04 14:58:52 So folks like alterego have no problem getting their debs on this repository? Nov 04 14:59:00 alterego: Well, hopefully it'll all be uploaded to extras ;-) Nov 04 14:59:16 My karma is aweful. Nov 04 14:59:17 alterego, i think what we really need is a powerful 'today' screen Nov 04 14:59:26 L0c-|Mobile|, all in due time :P Nov 04 14:59:35 halley: theoretically, no problems, no. However it's historically been a bit painful/ambiguous/not well documented Nov 04 14:59:55 Jaffa, political or just confusing? Nov 04 15:00:35 Confusing. i.e. when I last tried, the packages failed the automatic sanity checks but it wasn't clear why. Had to talk to ferenc directly, which isn't very scalable. Nov 04 15:00:42 i mean one like pocketbreeze on WM devices Nov 04 15:01:07 L0c-|Mobile|, I've not heard of that. Nov 04 15:01:17 I get what you mean though. Nov 04 15:01:17 alterego, wich dev. lang. ? Nov 04 15:01:26 ruby-mameo Nov 04 15:01:36 s/mameo/maemo/ Nov 04 15:01:37 alterego meant: ruby-maemo Nov 04 15:01:49 This lists a Quake II install. Wonder what they did. Nov 04 15:01:58 halley, software Nov 04 15:02:09 with ppocketbreeze i have all on screen , toodo,appointments,contacts usin a simple multitab concept Nov 04 15:02:19 Yeah Nov 04 15:02:23 Sounds cool. Nov 04 15:02:43 but i know... Nov 04 15:02:58 n800 isn't a pda ;) Nov 04 15:03:10 No, it's better. Nov 04 15:03:12 Only due to lack of software Nov 04 15:03:13 It's a computer Nov 04 15:03:23 yep Nov 04 15:03:33 but without a good today gh. Nov 04 15:03:39 :) Nov 04 15:04:28 Task is a test. Once it's complete I plan on working on a full PIM suite with group management capabilities. Nov 04 15:04:43 wow grate Nov 04 15:04:46 Management/Collaboration Nov 04 15:05:49 But "RX Task" is a nice starting point. It's functional and it will help be discover the kind of infrastructure these applications will have. Nov 04 15:05:57 s/be/me/ Nov 04 15:05:57 alterego meant: But "RX Task" is a nice starting point. It's functional and it will help me discover the kind of infrastructure these applications will have. Nov 04 15:06:06 Grrr .. Nov 04 15:06:15 infobot ignore me Nov 04 15:06:16 * infobot sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, alterego!" Nov 04 15:06:30 Wow .. I wasn't expecting that to work .. Nov 04 15:08:34 "Please, install this new version that it haven't this bug. Sorry for it. It's to silly bug :(" Nov 04 15:08:38 * halley twists his face in pain. Nov 04 15:08:53 O_o Nov 04 15:16:15 can i have access to sources (i'd like to learn ruby on maemo ;) Nov 04 15:20:00 They're all in the repository. Nov 04 15:20:11 Oh, do you mean sources for RX Task? Nov 04 15:20:16 Sure, when it's released :) Nov 04 15:20:34 gh Nov 04 15:21:32 re Nov 04 15:21:34 what is the right line to follow to learn ruby on maemo ? Nov 04 15:21:54 Well, Nov 04 15:21:54 i meam what i must read before ? Nov 04 15:22:01 ciao lopz Nov 04 15:22:06 hola Nov 04 15:22:07 <_Monkey> hi, lopz Nov 04 15:22:18 It'd be wise to have a good overview of Hildon and the Maemo platform. Nov 04 15:22:36 Read all my random ramblings in what little documentation I have. Nov 04 15:22:42 When unsure about the API check the source :) Nov 04 15:23:21 I'll write a tutorial soon I promise :) Nov 04 15:23:57 i need also to learn ruby... so you have time ;) Nov 04 15:25:05 so i need to learn ruby, than gtk, than learn about maemo ? Nov 04 15:25:27 Yes, that would be a good way to go. Nov 04 15:25:43 Though Gtk/maemo can be learned in parallel. Nov 04 15:26:25 I think the "download a project, learn to build it, then figure out what every file is FOR" route works best. :) Nov 04 15:26:59 Heh Nov 04 15:27:05 Can't say I've ever taken that approach. Nov 04 15:27:54 I've never learned a language by picking up the book and starting at page 1. Nov 04 15:28:06 No, I can't say I've done that either. Nov 04 15:28:20 Well, actually. Nov 04 15:28:21 SICP .. Nov 04 15:29:26 I gotta say, I learned a lot in electrical engineering when we implemented a microprocessor from discrete logic. But after that, it's all "I want to do this, that thing almost does this, what can I tweak?" style learning. Nov 04 15:30:09 Yeah, I'm a grounds up kind of guy. Nov 04 15:30:29 I don't tweak other peoples apps, but I'm happy to use their libraries. Nov 04 15:30:57 In an ideal world MVC would make that very easy indeed :) Nov 04 15:31:10 Porting applications would be pretty simple and just require work building custom UI's. Nov 04 15:31:27 I think mvc is overrated; model/interface is usually enough. Nov 04 15:31:46 Separating view from controller tends to get in the way of natural interaction. Nov 04 15:31:49 Well, I disagree .. Nov 04 15:32:17 When a project gets big enough. If the view hasn't naturally decoupled itself from control logic then you're going to have problems. Nov 04 15:32:51 Sure, they're very close. But a view should only hold internal logic. It should know anything about the actual application. Nov 04 15:33:43 But whatever, I'm a believer that a good programmer will make the correct choices without having to worry about specific paradigms. Nov 04 15:33:54 People have different styles of coding. Nov 04 15:34:53 mmm Nov 04 15:35:06 i tthink i must learn also makefile... Nov 04 15:35:25 (if i want to make a deb....) Nov 04 15:35:27 It might be useful, especially when creating debian packages. Nov 04 15:35:35 But it really isn't anything special :) Nov 04 15:36:06 man make iiis enough ? Nov 04 15:36:23 fuc#inng bt keyboard.. Nov 04 15:36:43 hope SO2008 can use usb keyb. Nov 04 15:36:46 Anyone use that laser projected bt keyboard? Nov 04 15:37:52 this bt keyb. work pretty well BUT, better if you don't use it with a bt phone... Nov 04 15:38:33 otherwise you see thing like "hhhelppp mmeeee" :) Nov 04 15:39:39 halley: i tried ordering it but didn't manage to get the po approved :( Nov 04 15:42:52 w Nov 04 15:42:56 Doh Nov 04 16:19:56 anyone know something why I can't install packages in sb2 with "sb2 fakeroot dpkg -i fontconfig_2.4.1-1osso2_armel.deb", it builds fine but couldnt be installed :\ Nov 04 16:26:12 if: what happens? Nov 04 16:46:06 Jaffa: sec. Nov 04 16:46:24 I forgot to mention what happens: dpkg: error processing fontconfig_2.4.1-1osso2_armel.deb (--install): package architecture (armel) does not match system (i386) Nov 04 16:46:44 You've compiled it in the wrong scratchbox target. Nov 04 16:46:57 Oh wait. Nov 04 16:47:02 nope Nov 04 16:47:09 You're trying to _install_ this in the wrong target. Nov 04 16:47:24 Are you working in the SDK> Nov 04 16:47:27 ?? Nov 04 16:47:30 I'm using sbox2 Nov 04 16:47:31 SDK_X86? Nov 04 16:47:32 <_Monkey> i guess SDK_X86 is running x86 binaries, SDK_ARMEL is running arm binaries. At least that's how the installer sets the targets Nov 04 16:47:44 sb2 runs ARMEL binaries fine Nov 04 16:47:54 Yes, you're trying to install the wrong package in the wrong target. Nov 04 16:48:00 like sb2 ./iperf just runs the same iperf that runs on my n800 fine. Nov 04 16:48:17 That package wasn't built for your current target. Nov 04 16:48:45 You're in SDK_X86, that package will only install on SDK_ARMEL Nov 04 16:49:07 sbox2 doesn't have SDK_X86 Nov 04 16:49:21 O_o Nov 04 16:49:23 just SDK_ARMEL Nov 04 16:49:42 Well, that's what's wrong. Nov 04 16:49:45 i told you, $ sb2 ./iperf runs an armel binary fine, so it's armel target Nov 04 16:50:08 So why is the package manager reporting you're on an i386 based system? Nov 04 16:50:22 that's what I'm searching answer of :) Nov 04 16:50:43 sb2 isn't supported by maemo. Why did you come here? Nov 04 16:50:53 You'd probably do better in the scratchbox channel .. Nov 04 16:51:20 I wait there for answer too :) Nov 04 16:51:30 just in case someone know here. Nov 04 16:51:35 Hmm Nov 04 17:25:55 http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_002.png Nov 04 17:29:34 nice png Nov 04 17:29:52 I'm having trouble making a functional list view. Nov 04 17:30:03 But the Task/Todo app is coming along nicely I think :) Nov 04 17:30:13 what is the input list? Nov 04 17:30:44 Input list? Nov 04 17:31:00 hm, what list should be sorted? Nov 04 17:31:15 The list of todo's Nov 04 17:31:19 aha Nov 04 17:31:23 ;) Nov 04 17:31:34 do you need something small and simple? Nov 04 17:31:43 Yeah Nov 04 17:32:12 I've been experimenting with GtkExpanders bit they break easily. Nov 04 17:32:28 alterego: zoran.nipl.net Nov 04 17:32:52 take the very first link and go to "duties" Nov 04 17:33:52 Is it Gtk? :) Nov 04 17:34:02 :) , no Nov 04 17:34:12 should it be? Nov 04 17:34:37 Well, I'm writing a graphical Todo app for Maemo. I'd say so :) Nov 04 17:35:07 small job for computer, so I let it do what it wants Nov 04 17:36:45 Getting tempted to use those tree views again. Nov 04 17:36:46 Oh no! Nov 04 17:36:51 Kidding. Nov 04 17:37:13 I have an idea .. Nov 04 17:37:23 * alterego goes back to emacs. Nov 04 17:37:28 he-he Nov 04 17:38:04 if the input is ascii, it is easy to sort, change etc with shell script or perl Nov 04 17:38:17 Oh, that's not the problem. Nov 04 17:38:26 The problem is _displaying_ the data. Nov 04 17:38:34 Formatting sorting that's all sorted ;) Nov 04 17:38:37 alterego: what about the OpenMoko list widget (complete with finger scrolling) Nov 04 17:38:50 I'll have a look. Nov 04 17:39:01 No, that's not the pointhttp://www.guardiani.us/index.php/N800_custom_packages#OpenMoko_Scroll_Widget_Example Nov 04 17:39:03 Is there a version for maemo? ;) Nov 04 17:39:13 alterego: yes :) Nov 04 17:39:17 I had today duties the time of booting and logging into the shell with using file parse and puting positive results on the screen Nov 04 17:40:59 Well, I'm hesitant to use that Jaffa as it's an extra dependency for users. :/ Nov 04 17:41:44 alterego: Depedencies aren't a problem. It's repositories which suck - and there's going to be a big push to consolidate them all in extras with Chinook. Nov 04 17:41:59 heh, opera mini for nokia phone about 100 kb! Nov 04 17:42:28 Besides, that's just a proof-of-concept: a proper implementation and packaging and Ruby bindings would be cool. That'd be a USP of Ruby-Maemo (at least for a while) Nov 04 17:42:57 Well, I'll keep it in mind. Nov 04 17:43:34 Okay, I think I've got something almost nice now :) Nov 04 17:45:46 GtkExpander is the key .. I know it is :D Nov 04 17:49:48 for some time no ideas about java on maemo Nov 04 18:07:57 ok, i got gainroot and xterm installed Nov 04 18:11:42 when i apt-get update it kicks back The following signatures are invalid..." for Nokia release Nov 04 18:12:09 can someone refresh mew on how to pull in the proper sigs? Nov 04 19:51:44 Gtk can be a pain in the ass sometimes .. Nov 04 19:52:32 Okay .. Most of the time. Nov 04 19:53:31 Fuck it, I'm using a tree view .. Nov 04 19:56:28 seen timeless Nov 04 19:56:29 <_Monkey> timeless was last seen on #maemo 2 days, 21 hours, 30 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying: too [Thu Nov 1 22:25:51 2007] Nov 04 19:57:11 seen timelyx Nov 04 19:57:11 <_Monkey> timelyx was last seen on #maemo 4 hours, 17 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: halley: i tried ordering it but didn't manage to get the po approved :( [Sun Nov 4 15:39:39 2007] Nov 04 19:57:15 better Nov 04 19:57:27 mr timeless - you about? :) Nov 04 19:58:12 someone in bugzilla needs a bitch slap :D Nov 04 20:03:17 hello. Anyone have information if the way BT keyboard input will be processed differently in 2008? I am considering starting to write a small applet to control some basic features, but would like to spend my effort on what will work in a couple of weeks Nov 04 20:04:42 I would expect a BT keyboard to function in OS 2008 the same as it does in OS 2007 Nov 04 20:05:11 hi guys, I saw a post about getting metasploit running on the n800 and it talked about a custom ruby package Nov 04 20:05:15 anyone got any ideas? Nov 04 20:05:51 A _custom_ Ruby package? Nov 04 20:06:16 apparently Nov 04 20:06:34 What's metasploit? Nov 04 20:06:35 <_Monkey> metasploit is probably hard on the IT Nov 04 20:06:46 hard on the IT? Nov 04 20:06:47 Oy. Nov 04 20:06:56 Well, ruby is http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ Nov 04 20:07:40 _Monkey, what did you mean? Nov 04 20:07:40 <_Monkey> bugger all, i dunno, cbx33 Nov 04 20:08:03 metasploit is a penetration testing kit Nov 04 20:08:16 I have to run security audits occasionally and thought I'd try it on my n800 Nov 04 20:09:04 if I am not mistaken, the BT handling is changing to BlueZ... I thought the BT stack was chaning and that the HID handling would be done through new libs....[of course, I can't remember at the moment the exact libraries] Nov 04 20:09:18 the BT stack already is BlueZ Nov 04 20:09:32 always has been as far as I'm aware Nov 04 20:10:02 What has metasploit got to do with Ruby? Nov 04 20:10:33 ok, I should read the docs a bit more carefully... and I hope the repeat problem gets addressed in the new OS Nov 04 20:11:44 hi Nov 04 20:11:45 <_Monkey> privet, Andy80 Nov 04 20:11:59 anyone done anywork on hacking the kernel Nov 04 20:12:13 I was wondering if a usb rj45 adapter was on the cards yet Nov 04 20:12:57 Never heard of them· Nov 04 20:13:12 a cable adapter for networing Nov 04 20:13:38 Well, I could guess what it is. I just don't understand why you'd want to use all this junk with a tablet. Nov 04 20:13:47 It's really not suited to network investigation at all .. Nov 04 20:13:50 because it's bloody portable Nov 04 20:13:52 I've never heard of usb/rj45, but I've seen them used as usb-extenders. Nov 04 20:14:24 Well, for sure it's possible to get any USB device working. Nov 04 20:14:30 Just takes a bit of time and effort. Nov 04 20:14:57 He's looking not for rj45 per se, but ethernet too. Nov 04 20:15:11 Yes, I did realise that halley :P Nov 04 20:15:57 I'm just saying, it seems like an obvious thing but none on the market for ten years of usb. Probably a reason. Nov 04 20:16:34 Erm. Nov 04 20:16:50 is there any way of using my macbook as a bt keyboard for my nokia? Nov 04 20:16:52 I'm pretty sure I've seen USB 10/100 network adapters. Nov 04 20:17:07 edistar, it's possible. But it's tricky. Nov 04 20:17:30 I've not heard of anyone do it either. Nov 04 20:19:18 alterego: okey, then I won't waste too much time on that Nov 04 20:19:18 :) Nov 04 20:19:20 :( Nov 04 20:19:43 There are loads of USB Ethernet adapters. Some of them might even work with Maemo Nov 04 20:19:47 Obviously not important then. Nov 04 20:20:00 If they work with Linux they'll work on the tablet. Nov 04 20:20:10 It may involve you compiling a module though Nov 04 20:20:18 Of course. Nov 04 20:21:58 alterego: I will buy a nokia bluetooth keyboard, just wanted to test how it feels to use a bt keyboard Nov 04 20:22:05 edistar: use synergy Nov 04 20:22:19 You were expecting to get that from using your Mac's keyboard? Nov 04 20:22:22 keyboard / mouse sharing app Nov 04 20:22:27 alterego: yes Nov 04 20:22:32 O_o Nov 04 20:22:50 alterego: it's not onscreen Nov 04 20:26:11 can anyone recommend a keyboard, something like the freedom mini? Nov 04 20:27:26 I asked about the laser BT keyboard, but nobody had tried one firsthand. Nov 04 20:27:41 I use the Apple BT keyboard on my MBP. Nov 04 20:30:30 ok Nov 04 20:31:07 the laser keyboard works fine with the nokia tablets, the only trouble is they're horrible to use - try typing on the table top for five minutes and see how much your fingers hurt... Nov 04 20:32:10 Anyone use any form of IME on Maemo? Japanese in particular? Nov 04 20:32:59 edistar, I did not find the Nokia BT keyboard that reliable. Had one and returned it.. Nov 04 20:33:34 so far the one that seems to work the best for me (though it is not as portable) is the new apple BT keyboard Nov 04 20:34:27 http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_003.png Nov 04 20:34:36 It's getting there .. Nov 04 20:35:06 gnarvaez, the new one? The chicklet one or the clear tray one? Nov 04 20:35:19 the problem I am finding is that the key repeat rate and delay are too short, thereby producing an unnaceptable amount of repeat errors. I am trying to find a way to control this, but to no avail so far Nov 04 20:35:58 halley, the chicklet one (the same that is being used on the MacBook... I really like it) Nov 04 20:36:48 gnarvaez, change them then. Nov 04 20:37:12 Change the delay that is .. Nov 04 20:37:13 <_Monkey> alterego: that doesn't look right Nov 04 20:37:14 I can't imagine anyone liking the chicklet one. Nobody remembers the IBM PCjr then. Nov 04 20:37:33 alterego, how? I have tried different approaches... xset770 does not seem to work (see bug #2166) Nov 04 20:37:34 <_Monkey> Bug 2166 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2166 Nov 04 20:38:20 It's in gconf Nov 04 20:38:42 halley.... in my former life I used to design input devices... one of things that I like about this keyboard is that it has a short travel and a good tactile hysterises Nov 04 20:38:58 I never liked apple Nov 04 20:39:25 's desktop keyboards, but their powerbook ones are quite good Nov 04 20:40:06 Their current laptop kbs suck. Nov 04 20:40:08 I am able to touch type at a good rate on it. Nov 04 20:40:29 maybe, but we are on keyboards.... Nov 04 20:40:35 /apps/osso/applet/hwkeyboard/repeat_interval Nov 04 20:40:40 'sera Nov 04 20:40:43 It defaults to 160ms by the look of it. Nov 04 20:40:53 alterego, thanks.... let me look Nov 04 20:43:24 the problem I am finding is that the key repeat rate and delay are too short, thereby producing an unnaceptable amount of repeat errors. I am trying to find a way to control this, but to no avail so far Nov 04 20:43:30 unresolvable... Nov 04 20:43:41 the same thing happens on my bt keyboard Nov 04 20:43:41 p|, see what I just said. Nov 04 20:43:44 It's in gconf Nov 04 20:43:47 no Nov 04 20:43:57 i've changed that parms Nov 04 20:44:01 whithout success Nov 04 20:44:07 O_o Nov 04 20:44:28 i've set at 10.000/2.000 Nov 04 20:44:41 and the problem persist Nov 04 20:44:54 It doesn't accept floating point. Nov 04 20:44:58 And that's 10ms Nov 04 20:45:15 but ONLY when i'm using a bt phone as internet connection together with bt keyb Nov 04 20:45:31 Oh, that's probably a different issue then. Nov 04 20:45:35 alterego: i've set 10000/2000 Nov 04 20:45:39 Interference between the devices. Nov 04 20:45:42 :) Nov 04 20:45:49 there are 2 params Nov 04 20:45:51 Will likely cause disruption if they're on the same channels. Nov 04 20:46:11 Yes p| I'm aware there are delay and repeat options. Nov 04 20:46:28 any chance to change chennel number ? Nov 04 20:46:32 channel* Nov 04 20:46:35 Manually. Nov 04 20:46:45 where ? Nov 04 20:46:49 You'd have to setup the BT connection between one of the devices in the console. Nov 04 20:47:53 isn't configurable in some cfg file legacy to bt address ? Nov 04 20:48:43 Possibly. Nov 04 20:48:50 It some configuration file in /etc Nov 04 20:49:01 Maybe under the bluetooth directory. Nov 04 20:49:53 i'll take a look Nov 04 20:49:56 tnks Nov 04 20:51:33 mmm Nov 04 20:51:46 hidd seems doesn't have any channel specs Nov 04 20:51:56 only btaddr or hci device Nov 04 20:52:16 Maybe it's defaulting. Nov 04 20:53:00 alterego, excuse my ignorance, but I do not find any applet called "repeat_interval" Nov 04 20:53:15 gnarvaez, it's a key in gconf Nov 04 20:53:25 [I am sure that I am making a basic mistake] Nov 04 20:54:05 Install the gconf-editor and look under that path. Nov 04 20:54:10 Probably the easiest way. Nov 04 20:55:19 oh that! nope, no effect. Tried it many times, but will try it again Nov 04 20:59:39 alterego, I tried again setting the repeat to 900 (.9 sec?) and the delay to 1200 (1.2 sec) and I don't see a difference. Also I noticed that when I connect to the bt gps, the keyboard is practically unusable. Nov 04 20:59:53 Oh well. Nov 04 21:01:24 anyway, thanks for the information.... I am trying to understand how the bt keyboard gets processed.... I should go back to the docs (a few days ago, in the middle of the night, after trying a number of things, I filed a bug on this, it is #2166) Nov 04 21:14:22 p, have you tried using xset770? Nov 04 21:21:14 gnarvaez: nope Nov 04 21:21:17 link ? Nov 04 21:21:34 ha ok Nov 04 21:24:16 p|, I found the file that has the parameters to modify the repeat and delay, it is /var/lib/gconf/apps/osso/applet/hwkeyboard/%gconf.xml Nov 04 21:24:37 it just does not seem to have any effect Nov 04 21:25:48 gnarvaez: simply use gconf (GUI) Nov 04 21:25:55 it modify the same file Nov 04 21:26:00 (whithout success) Nov 04 21:26:16 i think it is a hid driver problem Nov 04 21:26:45 I doubt that. Nov 04 21:26:58 xset770 is mentioned as a possible fix for the repeat/delay problem, but I don't seem to be able to set it properly (or maybe it does not work) See http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_SetupKeyboard Nov 04 21:27:20 but I don't see it having any effect Nov 04 21:28:03 p| yes, gconf-editor modifies the same file, I wanted to know what file it modified Nov 04 21:28:25 i think the same you have said Nov 04 21:28:41 somehow I trust VIM a bit more than some GUI app Nov 04 21:28:49 hehe Nov 04 21:30:41 p| it might be an HID problem, but because of the interaction with the GPS (I don't have other bluetooth devices) I am wondering if it might be a problem further down the protocol Nov 04 21:30:51 You're paranoid. Nov 04 21:30:52 [stack] Nov 04 21:31:15 no... alterego, the door in my office is locked Nov 04 21:31:19 gnarvaez: does you kn work without gps ? Nov 04 21:31:33 your kb* Nov 04 21:33:43 the mine work ok without other connected bt devices Nov 04 21:33:51 http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_003.png Nov 04 21:33:57 Starting to come together now :) Nov 04 21:33:57 so i think it is not a repeat problem... Nov 04 21:34:03 p| yes, the kbrd works without the gps, but the delay and repeat are on the edge (if I use a Nokia su-8w keyboard, or a stowaway, it is next to unusable, with an apple BT kbrd it is pretty tolerable. If I have the GPS connected at the same time, any kbrd becomes unstable to the point that is unusable, though the GPS works fine) Nov 04 21:34:53 my stowaway is ok Nov 04 21:35:04 RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.38-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin for n800 What are some features or upgrades on it? Nov 04 21:35:40 skibur: fix for sdhc corruption i think is the most important one Nov 04 21:35:50 ? Nov 04 21:36:02 what is for large amount of data sent? Nov 04 21:36:27 It's the only one I heard. Nov 04 21:36:35 yes Nov 04 21:36:39 Just SD driver fixes Nov 04 21:36:43 was io ok Nov 04 21:38:46 gnarvaez: any way to 'submit' the keyboard bt problem ? Nov 04 21:38:57 any bug repository ?? Nov 04 21:39:31 p|, look at bugs.maemo.org Nov 04 21:40:25 i filed one, it is #2166 Nov 04 21:42:03 hi all, quick question about booting from internal flash... Nov 04 21:42:34 just finished the install/procedure, rebooted with message at top saying "booting from flash" Nov 04 21:43:00 how do i actually verify it is using the card? ls /media/mmc2 shows nothing Nov 04 21:43:27 file mgr indicates card is corrupted Nov 04 21:58:00 gnarvaez: i've voted the bug Nov 04 22:01:19 p|, I have to run.... need to finish an aritcle for tomorrow [on coffee, I am an anthropologist in real life, and that is my research]. I am wondering if maybe this problem might be related to D-Bus message handling? I am trying to understand how the BT kybrd is read, in the mean time I will keep my fingers crossed to see if this issue is fixed in the next rev. and now I have to move on to another project [it involves espressos] Nov 04 22:01:46 later Nov 04 22:01:47 ok, thanks for now :) Nov 04 22:03:30 /me bumps his question Nov 04 22:10:06 Will OS2008 have new features? Nov 04 22:10:51 You bet your ass. Nov 04 22:11:09 IT has new features coming out of the kazoo Nov 04 22:11:46 Lots. Shiny new application chooser menu, new theme, draggable desktop plugins, cross-language home screen plugins, built-in Mozilla-based browser, ... Nov 04 22:12:16 Guys, shut up. Nov 04 22:12:18 Transparency and other graphical effects. Nov 04 22:12:23 It's making the wait that much more difficult. :/ Nov 04 22:12:27 Indeed. Nov 04 22:12:34 It's ~2 weeks now :P Nov 04 22:12:38 Sod all time :) Nov 04 22:12:51 I've also got promotion/pay rise announcements "the second half of November". Nov 04 22:13:02 It's a month I'm spending on tenterhooks. Nov 04 22:16:01 anyone here booting an 800 from internal flash? Nov 04 22:16:36 I'd imagine everyone is ol_schoola Nov 04 22:16:45 As it is how Nokia built the devices .. Nov 04 22:16:55 i meant from internal mmc slot Nov 04 22:17:11 Ah, well you should have said internal card then Nov 04 22:17:37 Yes, I'm booting from a 1G partition on a 2G card which is placed in the internal memory card slot. Nov 04 22:17:55 i've completed the procedure and want to verify it really is Nov 04 22:18:03 what are the benefit to boot from the internal SD? Nov 04 22:18:05 file mgr shows card corrupted Nov 04 22:18:28 That may be because you only have a single ext2 partition. Nov 04 22:18:32 Is that true? Nov 04 22:18:36 y Nov 04 22:18:38 yes Nov 04 22:18:39 (i'm unable to mount as ext2 my ext3 formatted sdhc... uff) Nov 04 22:18:43 Well that'll be why then. Nov 04 22:18:55 Don't format memory cards as ext3 Nov 04 22:19:03 yes i know Nov 04 22:19:22 but i've already done :-( Nov 04 22:19:29 ok Nov 04 22:19:29 Oh well .. Nov 04 22:19:40 ok, so the ext partition is just invisible? /media/mmc2 is empty Nov 04 22:19:46 (and have 3+gb of data...) Nov 04 22:20:21 ol_schoola, I presume so. Like I said, my internal memory card is split down the middle so I don't get that problem. Nov 04 22:20:38 I'm a slackware user, but how do I install deb packages? Nov 04 22:20:49 It also means I can have a virtual memory file. Nov 04 22:21:00 Install debian skibur Nov 04 22:21:14 right right. but i still want to be able to verify i'm booting to the ext partition rather than int flash. how do i check that? Nov 04 22:21:39 `mount` Nov 04 22:21:53 if your rootfs is /dev/mmc* then it worked. Nov 04 22:22:05 * ol_schoola bangs head on key#@$$^twrgsd Nov 04 22:22:18 thx alterego Nov 04 22:22:35 /dev/mmcblk0p2 on / type ext2 (rw,noatime) Nov 04 22:22:40 Look for something like that ol_schoola Nov 04 22:22:50 Though yours would be /dev/mmcblk0p1 Nov 04 22:27:20 alterego: what are the benefit to boot from the internal SD? Nov 04 22:27:22 crikey, it's not showing up. i just realized, i'd removed my external card, possibly screwing with the device numbering, rebooting now Nov 04 22:28:01 pl: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ Nov 04 22:28:16 explanations are given in the article Nov 04 22:28:23 p|, possible makes the system run faster. You have potentially a lot more space to install applications. Nov 04 22:28:34 hum, interesting Nov 04 22:28:36 thanks Nov 04 22:28:55 It also means you can boot into a safe environment in main flash if you break your memory card install. Nov 04 22:29:25 So you're guaranteed of always having an operational system on your tablet :) Nov 04 22:29:25 hmmm, i must have dorked the initfs_flash step, doesn't boot to menu, just boots saying "Booting from flas..." Nov 04 22:29:41 ol_schoola, you have to hold down the menu key. Nov 04 22:30:13 missed that, trying again Nov 04 22:35:37 crud, it's still boots from flash. it's not listed in mount, i had to load mbcache and ext2 modules and now it is mountable again. any idea where i went ewrong? Nov 04 22:36:11 Did the boot menu come up? Nov 04 22:37:05 no, if i hold Menu, it says Hold Menu for Advanced then immediately jumps to Booting from flash... Nov 04 22:37:15 Eesh,. Nov 04 22:37:35 Take the battery out for about 20 seconds and try again. Nov 04 22:37:54 alterego: have you formatted all your partition with ext2 ? Nov 04 22:39:00 no go, same behavior Nov 04 22:39:06 No, I have 2x 2G cards. One of them (the internal one) is partitioned into two 1G partitions, the first is fat the second is ext2 and is the primary rootfs for my N800 Nov 04 22:39:55 is mandatory the first vfat ? Nov 04 22:40:06 Shouldn't be, Nov 04 22:40:13 Probably safer though. Nov 04 22:40:20 hum Nov 04 22:40:24 As it's known to work at least with me ;) Nov 04 22:40:27 does the ext2 partition NEED to be the second partition? Nov 04 22:40:57 Like I said, it shouldn't but as this configuration works for me it's a safe bet to do it. Nov 04 22:41:02 In fact. Nov 04 22:41:03 <_Monkey> i guess in fact is about reopening one since this bug was in principle solved Nov 04 22:41:26 I actually made this particular partitioning choice because of windows. Nov 04 22:41:52 I wasn't sure if windows could handle having a fat partition as a secondary on a memory card device. Nov 04 22:42:18 Though I don't use Windows personally, the device comes in handy when I'm at a friends and they've got something cool I want to pinch :) Nov 04 22:42:34 hmmm, i used a 512 card and passed 15000,, to fsdisk Nov 04 22:42:50 anything i should undo before repartitioning it? Nov 04 22:44:01 ah nuts, i'll go for broke and redo it with a tiny little fat Nov 04 22:58:16 arrrgh, the fat partition doesn't show up, no file manager claims there is no card inserted -- it's a basic SanDisk 512 Nov 04 22:58:52 memory CP claims same thing Nov 04 22:59:27 tomorrow i'll try also :D Nov 04 22:59:57 i have a sandisk 6gb microSDHC class 4 Nov 04 23:00:04 hope it is fast Nov 04 23:07:26 time to go bed now... Nov 04 23:07:34 good night to all ! Nov 04 23:07:38 g'night Nov 04 23:11:09 alterego: any ideas? card not supported? Nov 04 23:12:12 I doubt that, Nov 04 23:12:52 <|tbb|> Volume: 128 cc is that louder than 136 cc? dont know what cc is Nov 04 23:21:22 alterego: very strange... loaded modules, mounted ext2 part to /opt and the VFAT pertition appeared! Nov 04 23:21:35 Heh Nov 04 23:21:54 hey, my friend has a sidekick... does anyone know if it's possible to use the sidekick's network to provide the n800 with internet? Nov 04 23:22:10 * legind btw has no idea when it comes to bt Nov 04 23:23:20 I have no idea what a sidekick is. Nov 04 23:24:13 http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phones/t-mobile-sidekick-ii/4507-6454_7-30981614.html Nov 04 23:24:20 does the sidekick have bluetooth? Nov 04 23:24:23 its some bluetooth phone instant messaging thing Nov 04 23:24:25 yes Nov 04 23:24:29 should work then Nov 04 23:24:30 i think it has 3g Nov 04 23:24:44 i connect to the internet often by pairing my n800 with my phone Nov 04 23:24:45 I don't think it's BT. Nov 04 23:25:10 (Model I linked isn't.) Nov 04 23:25:15 I tried it but it doesn't work Nov 04 23:25:34 yeah, that website says it doesn't have bluetooth Nov 04 23:26:40 doublec, how do you pair it? does your phone have USB? Nov 04 23:26:54 i pair it over bluetooth Nov 04 23:27:16 i don't have a sidekick, i have a nokia n73 Nov 04 23:27:37 whats an n73 Nov 04 23:27:42 a phone Nov 04 23:27:43 <_Monkey> i guess a phone is for voice and data Nov 04 23:27:54 right... i just work up Nov 04 23:27:56 woke Nov 04 23:28:04 * halley mutters about how lame chatterbots are. Nov 04 23:28:19 Google is helpful too, I hear. Nov 04 23:28:35 :) Nov 04 23:28:54 * alterego adds fullscreen support to his app. Nov 04 23:29:15 What else should a todo app have .. Nov 04 23:29:39 i use maemo-mapper a lot, downloading maps with the connected phone. it works really well. Nov 04 23:29:43 Can it wake from sleep and tell you it elapsed? Nov 04 23:30:01 It does alert yes. Nov 04 23:30:06 alterego, how do you develop for the n800? I do web programming (PHP, mySQL, AJAX)... do you develop in python? Nov 04 23:30:17 Not from off though. Nov 04 23:30:21 legind, I use Ruby Nov 04 23:30:27 ahh ok Nov 04 23:30:40 theres a php port for maemo I believe Nov 04 23:30:53 Well, if you can call it that,. Nov 04 23:31:08 I don't quite see why people would want to develop for maemo with PHP. Nov 04 23:31:16 put I don't want to make installing php a necessity to run apps I develop Nov 04 23:31:17 It's an aweful language :P Nov 04 23:31:22 ^with PHP^with Ruby Nov 04 23:31:23 * halley scurries about, trying to hide. Nov 04 23:31:38 heh Nov 04 23:31:57 I know they have Gtk bindings but I'm pretty sure there are no Hildon ones as of yet. Nov 04 23:32:07 I don't know much about Ruby actually. Nov 04 23:32:17 http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_003.png Nov 04 23:32:29 That's a screenshot of an app I'm doing now in Ruby. Nov 04 23:32:45 * legind has never coded in ruby though he's used ruby on rails minimally Nov 04 23:33:28 Ruby is the best language ever. Nov 04 23:33:31 ruby? Nov 04 23:33:32 <_Monkey> well, ruby is http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/projects/ruby-maemo Nov 04 23:33:36 Hah Nov 04 23:33:39 Nice to see that's updated. Nov 04 23:35:59 alterego: ok, using a vfat as first part and ext2 as second did the trick Nov 04 23:37:32 boots and runs faster for sure Nov 04 23:38:31 Nice Nov 04 23:39:16 ok, i have to ask. any big issues with the LCARS theme and the current FW? worth the time to try it? Nov 04 23:39:48 not that i would actually use it all the time but my brother has an iphone and is a trekkie Nov 04 23:39:54 Cool, fullscreen works a charm. Nov 04 23:40:02 that would kill him to see LCARS on the 800 Nov 04 23:40:09 Heh Nov 04 23:40:30 * ol_schoola imersonates Monty: "Eggggggcellent!" Nov 05 00:01:34 what is the best way people can suggest for using google apps on maemo? for instance, google calendar does't render correctly on osso-browser-opera doesn't render google calendar correctly Nov 05 00:01:54 ff? Nov 05 00:02:18 that is redundant, that is. Nov 05 00:03:09 answers? Nov 05 00:07:45 Help : All of pidgin except the main exe updates. Ideas? Nov 05 00:09:27 Hello fellow Maemo'ers? Nov 05 00:10:56 Anyone there? 222 people asleep? Nov 05 00:11:34 Be patient, apparently they are. Nov 05 00:13:12 Mycrof1: it's 02:13 in finland Nov 05 00:13:25 I'm sitting in the tub and the water is getting cold... Nov 05 00:14:05 * halley boggles. Nov 05 00:14:50 Everyone here is in Finland? Nov 05 00:16:02 I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA Nov 05 00:17:46 I think the safest thing to say is that everyone here is on Earth Nov 05 00:18:14 db48x: how can you be sure? Nov 05 00:18:42 I said "safest", not "100% known to be true" Nov 05 00:37:07 zeenix: because all the space stations that we know exist won't take 100 users, and so the remainder must be on earth :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 05 02:59:57 2007